UPDATE: Guilty Verdicts & New Evidence in the 2nd Crystal Rogers Murder Trial

The final trial in the Crystal Rogers murder case has concluded, with both Defendants, Houck and Lawson, being found guilty. New evidence presented in the trial revealed the methods most likely used to dispose of Crystal's body, and cell phone evidence obliterated alibis. Next up, the "unindicted co-conspirators" are expected to be charged (hopefully).

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Hey, hey, welcome back to Autumn's Oddities. I'm Autumn. Well.
I promised you a case update after the verdict was
returned in the second round of Crystal Rogers murder trials,
and I've got one for you. There is some truly
disturbing stuff in here. Not a ton of it, but
really just the one sentences is enough. I'm just warning

(00:55):
you ahead of time. But her family did indeed get justice.
I had a few listeners ask, you know, what about
Nick Hawk Brooks's mother not mother, brother. I had a
few listeners ask what about Nick Hawk Brooks's brother, And
if you remember, he was a police officer at the

(01:16):
time in the town that Crystal disappeared in and was
murdered in. I mean, again, they haven't found her body,
but these three men have all been convicted of murder,
conspiracy to commit murdered, you know, conspiracy to hide evidence,
so on and so forth, so we can say with
all likelihood that she is dead. She's been But Nick Hawk, again,

(01:39):
police officer at the time he called Brooks during his
interview with police, told him to stop cooperating. There's a
lot more evidence that implicates him within this episode that
was presented at trial, so I think he's he's going
to most likely be charged pretty soon, whether it's as
a co conspirator or for the murder of Crystal's father,

(02:02):
Tommy Ballard, or both. We'll just have to wait and
see what they can charge him with. Roughly two hours
from Louwell in Bowling Green, Kentucky, one of the state's
most high profile murder trials has finally come to an end.
Brooks Howck and Joseph Lawson were charged in the death
of Crystal Rogers, who of course went missing over the

(02:22):
Fourth of July weekend in twenty fifteen, so ten whole years.
This is the third episode that I've done about Crystal
and her disappearance. So if you haven't listened to either,
or if you're not familiar with the case, go back
and give them a listen. You will be completely and
totally lost. On July eighth, so just a couple of
weeks ago, jurors deliberate Ruger. Jurors deliberated the verdict for

(02:46):
roughly four hours, so not very long. Following the nine
day trial, jurors did convict Howck on tampering with evidence
and a different murder charge, and that charge is murder
principal or accomplice, And essentially it means that jurors found
him guilty of murder, but they couldn't determine if he
killed Crystal or he played a role in her murder.

(03:08):
And again, just because you can't somebody can't find a boue,
just because her body was well hidden or well disposed of,
does not mean no one gets charged with her murder.
If they did indeed murder her, you don't get rewarded
for that. Lawson was charged with conspiracy to commit murder
and tampering with physical evidence. Jurors found him guilty on

(03:29):
both charges. His father, Steve Lawson, if you remember, was
convicted on similar charges in May at his own trial,
but Brooks and the younger Lawson were tried together. Jurors
went right into recommending the defendant sentences, and after twenty
minutes of deliberations, they recommended that Howke and Lawson received

(03:50):
the maximum sentence allowed. And this is a recommendation that
the jury is making to the judge. Howke's recommended sins
was life in prison not strong enough, while Lawson's recommended
sentence was twenty years for conspiracy to murder and five
years for tampering with physical evidence to run consecutively. Judge
Charles Simms will determine their final sentences on August twenty first,

(04:14):
and I'll do another quick update when the verdict comes
in as well, not verdict, it's not gonna be a verdict.
They're already found guilty, but when their sentences actually are
handed down, I will let you know what those are.
There was quite a bit of evidence presented at trial
that was really very damning that obviously was not made

(04:34):
public beforehand. The prosecution's case in the second trial largely
hinged on circumstantial evidence, with attorneys admitting early on that
Crystal's body was never found again. You don't get a
reward or you know, to go on living your life
just because you disposed of someone's body very well, it
wasn't possible for them to present direct evidence, you know.

(04:56):
That's why this is a circumstantial case with regard to
the murder it self, because of that fact. You know,
nobody can't tell how she was murdered, can't tell where,
don't know, I don't know who killed her, but I
can tell you who's involved. Prosecutor Shane Young said enclosing arguments.
Howke's defense attorney Brian Butler argued the commonwealth's case Kentucky's

(05:20):
a commonwealth, not a state, technically based on He said,
it's based on guesses and assumptions. Well, there are guesses
and assumptions with a whole lot of circumstantial evidence to
back them up. He hammered, home, the jury, you know,
just on the lack of evidence found through the decade
long investigation into Crystal's disappearance, and by that he meant
direct evidence. Of course, He's like they can't find anything.

(05:43):
They found plenty, The prosecution, the FBI, all the law
enforcement agencies involved found plenty. There's plenty of circumstantial evidence.
Otherwise there would have been no standing for these trials
to go forward. I'm sure early on they filed a
motion to dismiss. I know they did, because I mentioned
it in one of the first case or the last
case updates I did. The judge was obviously like, good dry,

(06:04):
We're gonna go ahead and go forward. So here's what
they found. They found a hair similar to crystals in
the trunk of a white Buick owned by Anna White Sides,
who is Hawk's grandmother. The prosecution said that a cadaver
dog trained in human remains detection also hit on the
car's trunk. Investigators also found women's underwear and clothing under

(06:28):
a driveway in the Woodlawn Spring subdivision, which How owned,
So that answers the question of what the FBI found
during those searches. Back in twenty twenty one, it was like,
right after I moved to Louisville, I saw that the
FBI was digging under a driveway of a house that
was under construction at the time of Crystal's disappearance, and

(06:50):
that Brooks how did own. Unfortunately, testing of the hair
found in white sides trunk and the clothes came back
with no DNA profile. And again they could have soaked
them in bleached They could have done quite literally anything.
No evidence was found in the grandmother's car either. They
looked for ten years for a murder weapon. They found nothing.

(07:12):
Butler argued, and to that, I say, okay, guy, we
don't know how she was killed, So what weapon should
someone be looking for. My guess, and this is speculation,
I would take a wild guess that hawk probably strangled
her and that there is no weapon in the sense,
you know, the defense is referring to that's my guess,

(07:32):
intimate partner violence strangulation is extremely common. I personally know
someone who was trigger warning here for domestic violence. It's bad.
She was strangled by her abusive husband. He believed that
she was dead. He called her best friend who's a
friend of mine, and said that he killed her. She

(07:55):
of course called the girl's mom, the police, everybody. They
should rowed up, and she was alive. And he legitimately
got like a slat. He got nothing. He didn't get
in any kind of trouble. He strangled his wife and
thought she was dead. He thought he killed her, and
really nothing happened. She got a divorce and is now
dealing with the fallout of all of that. So here's

(08:19):
the smoking gun for me, and it would seem the
jury as well. The phone records contradicted Hawke's alibi Like
Big Time without a body or murder weapon. Cell phone
records were crucial to the prosecution's argument in this trial.
In his first police interview in twenty fifteen, if you remember,
Hawk wrote an aide an eight page statement in which

(08:43):
he detailed what he did on July third, twenty fifteen,
visiting the family farm that day was just a brief blurb.
You know. He mostly wrote about meeting with multiple people
for business reasons. Several of those people that he listed,
they testified to not meeting him that day, but the
defense argued with those cover that those conversations were things

(09:06):
he needed to do. So his alibi was I met
with XYZ. And when those people were like, nope, didn't
see him that day, his attorneys went ahead and moved
the goal post, and they're like, wait a minute, wait
a minute. This was just a list of things that
he needed to do. This is a theoretical list, and
it's like, okay, so he doesn't have an alibi. It's
a list of shit he needs to do. I've got
like fifty of those in my notes app right now,

(09:28):
will they alibi me? Should my husband come up murdered? Sidebar?
This is a funny sidebar. Yesterday I set a pair
of kitchen scissors on like the edge of the counter.
I was cutting open like ann energy drink packet for myself.
Cut it open, pour it in turn my back. Here

(09:50):
a thump, and see my cat, my black cat with
one paw outreached like standing straight up. He had knocked
the scissors off and they bounced literally in the direction
of my husband, who was standing in front of the sink,
and I'm like, he's like, oh, you probably trained the
cat to do that, and I'm like, no, you know,
those scissors are not sharp enough. If anything, I would

(10:11):
have put the butcher's block of knives closer to him.
You know, the scissors ain't gonna do shit. They'll cut you,
but probably not going to kill you. It's I doubt
it's as easy to I haven't stabbed anybody. If you have,
don't let me know. I don't need to hear about it.
But if you have stabbed somebody, like not in a
really super fleshy area of the body, I would assume

(10:31):
that it's not super easy to get a knife through,
you know, every part of the human body anyway, sidebar over.
There are new details about what happened the day that
Crystal vanished. Those also came out in court. Multiple witnesses
testified that Crystal told them how had planned a surprise
kid free date night with her on July third, twenty fifteen.

(10:56):
She had five kids, the two of them had like
a small baby together. She was really freaking excited to
get out of the house and she'd told her friends
about it, which is completely understandable and makes like this
is as sad as it gets to begin with. That
makes it so much sadder. He was obviously planning this
and told her that they were going to have a
kid free date night. In his statement, Holck said that

(11:20):
they went to the farm to take a walk with
their son. Huh okay. He said they left around midnight.
Why the hell you got your baby? Is your baby awake?
Why are you out there walking with your kid till midnight?
And when he woke up the next morning, Crystal was gone.
And to me, that does not sound like a child
free date night. I'm sure she would have been like, Okay,
first of all, there's a baby with us. Second of all,

(11:40):
we're at your parents fucking farm. This is my nightmare
because mother hates Crystal. You'll hear some of that later.
Cell phone location data showed how can Crystal arrived at
the family farm around seven thirty pm. So they're from
seven thirty to midnight with their baby on a kid
free date night, all right, that makes total sense. It's

(12:01):
checking out, checking all boxes. In his statement, Howck said
that Crystal was playing games on her phone before bed,
saying that it was something she usually did, but cell
records show her phone had died just before nine thirty pm.
Apparently when the forensic data was looked at, Crystal actually
was playing mobile games before the phone died. The phone

(12:24):
powered back on at around eleven fifty seven pm before
being manually turned off. And again, none of this is
lining uh. If she was in bed at nine thirty
or eleven fifty seven pm, how the fuck are you
out at the farm at or until midnight? Does that
make sense to you? Are either of those times congruent

(12:46):
with what Brooks how claimed in his alibi statement. And
then at eleven fifty seven pm the phone was manually
turned off. It was found days later, still powered off,
inside her which was of course abandoned on the side
of the Bluegrass Parkway with remember her purse, her keys,

(13:06):
everything inside of it. Nothing was wrong with the car.
I think maybe there was a flat tire or something,
but one of the Lossons did that. Prosecutors also noted
a series of phone calls between Joseph and Steve Lawson
at around midnight on July third, twenty fifteen, after the
Lawson spoke on the phone for a few minutes. Steve
Lawson called Brooks Howck for around thirteen seconds. Weird timing,

(13:31):
wouldn't she say? Again, these are circumstantial facts and they're
painting a picture, they're creating a timeline. Investigators said that
Lawson's phone was near the Bluegrass Parkway a short time later.
During his trial, Steve Lawson admitted to driving the car
there to pick up Joseph Lawson, who was allegedly driving

(13:53):
Crystal's car when it got a flat tire. He also
admitted that he'd moved her front driver's seat up. Jurors
didn't hear about, you know, his testimony or conviction, though
it was inadmissible in the second trial, and if it
had been used, it would have likely resulted in a mistrial. Instead,
the jury heard a new alternative theory from how and

(14:16):
Lawson's defense, and I'm sure we're all eager to hear that,
Like I can't wait to see how this turns out.
The defense argued cell Towers didn't place the Lawsons on
the Bluegrass Parkway. Instead, they said that the Lawsons were
on Boston Road, which runs north parallel to the Bluegrass Parkway.
That's that's that's where you guys messed up. The cell

(14:38):
phones they just got confused, and the towers that got confused,
and we were running parallel to it. He claims he
went to pick up a car that Steve's lawson's or
Steve Lawson's ex girlfriend had hidden from him. Okay, these
people need to get a fucking life, the prosecution said, Okay,
we'll ask your ex girlfriend. Then and ex girlfriend, heathers

(14:59):
snow Ellen testified that she did move the car that
the couple shared to Boston Road, but Snellen said that
only fourth twenty fifteen. When she went back to the
car and cleaned it out, she found needles, a bag
of stanky clothing, and a tiny Louisville Slugger baseball bat inside.

(15:20):
All Right, it sounds like a Kentucky nightmare. In what
had to be some of the most gruesome testimony, Charlie Gurdley,
who was a former employee of Halck, said that Steve
Lawson approached him at a job site and claimed that
Howke wanted to get rid of Crystal. They apparently were
going all over town talking about getting rid of her
his family. He later testified that Joseph Lawson told him

(15:44):
that he would quote bury her with a skid steer
and nobody would ever find her. All right, I think
a skid steer is some sort of a back hoe
looking kind of machine. Not sure, though. Gurdley said on
July third, twenty fifteen, he was with Joseph law when
they went to meet Brooks Howck. Gurdley picked up his
pay for that week and saw how give laws in

(16:07):
Crystal's keys. He explained this away by saying that Lawson
told him he was going to do some work on it,
so that was the reason for having Crystal Rogers car keys.
Did you talk to Joseph Lawson about Crystal that night?
Prosecutor Shane Young asked, this is rough. He said he
would pull her teeth and the hogs would do the rest.

(16:30):
The fuck at his next level disturbing stuff. I really
I don't understand how you could do that to another
human being. Gurdley said a few weeks later that he
was on the Hawk family farm helping how poor concrete
at a barn. The defense argued investigators used coercive tactics

(16:51):
during Girdley's police interview and that his story changed at
least five times during deliberations, jury's asked to replay at
least testimony. They rewatched about ten minutes of it before
returning to deliberate, And I'm guessing that they disagreed that
coercive tactics were used. If you mean coercive, If by

(17:12):
like asking questions you mean coercive, then I guess, Yeah,
sure they were coercive. I saw the test or. I
saw the footage too. I don't think they coerced them.
Throughout the nine day trial, the prosecution described the plan
to kill Crystal Rogers as a family affair, often bringing
up the action of Hawke's family members, who I believe
will soon be charged as well, at least one of them.

(17:34):
Prosecutor Shane Young primarily focused on Hawke's mom and brother,
Rosemary and Nick Hawke. The two have been named unindicted
co conspirators in Roger's case. Yeah, that just means they
haven't had a chance to submit their findings yet, or
maybe they're waiting on one more thing. Maybe they're waiting
on some sort of DNA analysis, some sort of evidence

(17:58):
to come through, and then they're going to file those charges.
I really hope. According to Young, the plan to kill
Crystal may have started two weeks before her disappearance with
a conversation between Rosemary and Danny Singleton. Singleton testified that
Rosemary approached him about looking for someone to get rid
of Crystal. What are these people doing? This is a

(18:20):
hillbilly freaking nightmare. I know I'm from Kentucky, but these
people are country. Country. Prosecutors alleged she didn't like Crystal
because she had other kids and viewed her as being
beneath her son, so she thought Crystel was trashy. Okay, bitch,
I think you're trashy. I'm talking to the mom. The
prosecution also noted how Nick Hawk, a former Bardstown police officer,

(18:41):
had his phone turned off listen to this for nearly
thirty six hours on July third, twenty fifteen. Who does that?
In this day and age, Even ten years ago, people
weren't doing that. Hawk's defense and his brother's fun or
said that his brother's phone was off because he and
his ex girlfriend Amber Bowman were fighting about moving and

(19:03):
the Hawk brothers just can't seem to keep their ex's
names out their mouths, And the prosecution said, okay, we'll
get Amber in here too. Bowman said that they were
supposed to be moving that day, but Nick left to
help Brooks with a rental property instead, she said, and
phone records do reflect this. They confirm that she tried

(19:25):
calling him fifteen times over the course of those thirty
six hours, but could not reach him, and he didn't
return home until the next morning. Come on, when he
finally did show up, she said he had no explanation
as to why his phone was found inside their new
home turned off. Well, I know, so that he can

(19:47):
say I was moving and if you know, there was
some by some chance, while his cell phone was off,
they could somebody could track where his where his phone was,
where it was located, it would be inside that new house.
He'd say, oh, I was moving. Well, there's another person
involved in that move, and she says, know the hell
you were not. A neighbor also noticed Rosemary and Nick

(20:11):
visited Hawke's home Brooks Hawke's home on Glen View Drive,
and they said it became really unusual after Cristel's disappearance.
They testified to seeing Nick move items from the trunk
of their cars, and that Rosemary went out front of
the house and dug up flowers that crystal had planted, like, really,

(20:32):
how much can you hate somebody that's just nasty? Truly.
The defense meanwhile described the Hawks as a middle class,
good family that's done the right thing their entire lives.
And to that, I say, uh, who cares? Good families?
Good people do bad things all the time. Like, just

(20:53):
because somebody looks like they're a good person on the outside,
you have no idea what they're like inside their own home.
Abusers thrive on that, Actually, the outward appearance of being
a good, likable person. They want you to believe it,
so that when the person they're abusing or people they're
abusing come forward, you don't believe them because you're like, oh, no,

(21:15):
he's such a great guy, she's such a great person, YadA, YadA, YadA.
And I believe that's what was going on here. So
Rnda mckleboy, who's the house's sister, said the family felt
immediate pressure from the community following Crystal's disappearance, and they
received numerous threats. Okay. She also admitted to secretly recording

(21:35):
her grand jury testimony. Shit that is not okay. There
are never to be unauthorized recording devices in a courtroom.
As to why she did that. She said, I was paranoid.
The whole family was paranoid due to the threats and accusations.

(21:55):
I felt the need to know what I did say
and what I did not say, to have I prove, ma'am.
That's what the court reporter's there there for. You can
order the transcript, Your attorney can order the transcript of
your testimony. That's absolute horseshit. She just wanted, She wanted
to do it under the radar. In fact, multiple audio

(22:17):
recording devices were found hidden inside Rosemary Hawke's home, although
McElvoy said she was unaware anyone else recorded their testimony. Bullshit.
One of those recordings was of Brooks Hawke's police interview
in twenty fifteen. Then Nelson County Sheriff's detective John Snow
testified that he noticed that Hawck was messing with the

(22:40):
recorder in his pocket after their interview. This is not okay.
This is not kosher in any way, shape or form.
So there's all of that, and I think it's pretty
easy to see why both men were convicted in this case.
The cell phone data, and of course Nick Hauke's cell
phone going dark on a day he was supposed to
be moving were pretty damning, at least to me, them

(23:02):
going all over town and soliciting someone to murder Crystal Rogers.
They weren't even being quiet about it. And then as
soon as she disappears, mom goes over to her house
and digs up her flowers. Like what the hell? None
of it adds up, you know, Nick or Brooks, howk
made this big, long list of I met with this
person about this, and I went to this hardware store

(23:23):
and I went here, and I went here, and they
checked investigators checked each and every one of those alibi
you know, elements, and not one of them was true.
Not He didn't do one of the things on his
alibi except for like go to the family farm. He
was there like the whole day, and so was Nick
Hawk because he told He even freaking told his ex

(23:43):
girlfriend that's where he was going. But then he was
gone for thirty six hours and had a cell phone
off and left it inside their new house, but didn't
like help her move in. It ain't making sense to me.
It sounds like the whole family wasn't on this. It
sounds like, and you know, again, I've had one review

(24:05):
say that I'm biased. I'm not a judge. I'm allowed
to be biased based on the evidence and the convictions
in this case, brooks how at the very least and
the Lawsons were involved in Crystal's murder and the cover
up of that murder and disposal of her body. I

(24:27):
think more than those three people were involved. And we'll
see when those indictments come in on those unindicted co conspirators.
Now onto Tommy Ballard, Cristel's father, if you remember, I'm
going to go into that. Give you a brief little recap.
A week after a jury found brooks Howk and Joseph

(24:47):
Lawson guilty in the Crystal Rogers murder case, there are
still no arrests in the murder of her father. The
FBI continues to offer a reward of up to ten
thousand dollars for any information leading to the arret of
Tommy Ballard's murderer. And as we know, Cristel's father, Tommy
was shot and killed on November nineteenth, twenty sixteen, and

(25:08):
his death remains a mystery to this day. I say
shot and killed. He was shot with a sniper rifle
in his own fucking yard. Yeah, with his grandson. Next
to him. Yeah, he became heavily invested in searching for
his daughter. This is the motive I believe. After she disappeared,
he created Team Crystal, a group of Bardstown community members

(25:30):
who were dedicated to finding Crystal and bringing her home.
And if you remember, the girlfriend that Brooks House started
dating after Crystal disappeared, was actually arrested for going around
town and ripping down all of their missing posters. Who
does that? What the fuck again? These people are country.

(25:52):
In the murder trial for Brooks, how Ballard's name was
mentioned numerous times and I told you this in the
last update, including an instance where he made a Facebook
post in twenty sixteen about looking into a white Buick
car so he was getting close and guess who owned
white Buick Their grandmother and a White Sides. An IRS

(26:14):
agent Jamie Brooks, who was investigating the case at the time,
testified that he investigated Ballard's claims days after that post.
Brooks said he found that Nick Hawk and his grandmother
and a White Sides sold that car four days after
Tommy Ballard's Facebook post. Come on, he said, when we

(26:35):
got there, the white Buick had been sold. And that's
what he told Shane Young during the trial in late June.
Months later, Ballard was shot in the chest while getting
ready for a hunting trip with his grandson and he
was killed instantly. Then again, I believe they shot him
because he was getting too close. Too close. Indeed, in
twenty twenty three, court records or have revealed more details

(26:58):
about the gun that may have been used to kill Tommy.
I mentioned this last time and in tract they have
that gun now. I believe the FBI has that gun
now and they're they're trying to It was sold by
Nick how spoiler and as part of a hearing on
a motion to lower brooks hous ten million dollar bond,
Young was told by the Judd oh fuck. As part

(27:22):
of a hearing on the motion to lower brooks House's
ten million dollar bond, Young told the judge that a
rifle was purchased from Nick howc huh, Brooks's brother, who
was using a fake name to sell it. Of course,
Young said, it's the same caliber as the gun used
in Ballard's death and so far matches four out of
the five criteria they were looking at in comparison who

(27:44):
Young said during the hearing, we were investigating the murder
of Tommy Ballard that could be potentially related, and we
are waiting for testing to come back on the gun
that we believe was used to murder Tommy Ballard, that
of course Nick Hawk owned and sold to the As
of today, July seventeenth, no one has ever been charged

(28:07):
in connection to the shooting, but I think it's legitimately
only a matter of time. Anyone with information about the
Ballard case is asked to call the FBI tip line
at one eight hundred call FBI, or contact your local
FBI field office. I really do hope to have an
update in the next few months that Nick Hawk has

(28:28):
been charged with something in relation to the murders of
Tommy Ballard and Crystal Rogers. Again, I think it's only
a matter of time. We've come to the what the
fuck happened portion of the episode, and I think we
know what the fuck happened, and we can say we
can say now that Brooks Howck is murderer and that

(28:51):
he did indeed murder Crystal Rogers. What the motivation was
I can only speculate. Most likely it was here's my guess,
he didn't want to share custody with her and wanted
her gone. The family wanted their grandson. I'm not sure
there were any grand other other grandchildren of the house
at that time. Like, I'm not sure anybody else in

(29:12):
the family had kids at that time, but they wanted
their grandchildren, and that would be my guess as to
why they wanted Crystal gone. This is here say, of course,
but it was set under oath in a trial that
the whole family was going around soliciting someone to murder Crystal.

(29:33):
And they didn't give any kind of a reason. They
just said they wanted her gone. And really, again, the
only thing I can think of is that you know,
I h I'm gonna make an allegation. This is an allegation.
Based on the evidence of the case so far, I
believe that their mother most likely pushed for that. Was like, well,

(29:56):
you know, she's not gonna let us see that baby
if you if you break up, she he's just gonna
take that kid. And she's not gonna let you see
that baby, and she's gonna run off and have a
kid with another man. Like the mom did not like
her because she had kids with other men. And I'm
just like, who cares? Who cares? Mind your own business.
It affects you in no way, shape or form. That's
a very old fashioned mentality. I have kids with two

(30:21):
different men, first husband's second husband. Who cares if you
got a problem with it. I don't care. I take
care of my kids. I have no problem with my
ex husband. All's all's good in the hood. Because I
got nothing else to say about that. Again, I know
I'm saying I'm a lot. It's just I really really

(30:42):
want every single person involved in Crystal Rogers murder and
Tommy Ballard's murder her father to be brought to justice,
and so far, I feel like there are some some holdovers.
I feel like there's some people still walking free that
need to go jail asap. I'm honestly shocked that Nick

(31:04):
Hawk hasn't been charged with anything as of this point.
But again, I won't I won't elaborate too much further.
I won't speculate too much further because I don't want
somebody killing me. I don't have any I don't have
any evidence, so there would be no reason to come
after me Hawk family, and also I have a gun

(31:25):
as well in her navy sharpshooter husband, so don't fuck
with me. And I can shoot a gun too. And
I'm I'm just straight up crazy. I'm straight up motherfucking crazy.
I got four cats, I got two dogs. They will
rip your throat out, okay. And I got a big
yard too. I got a big yard. And I got
some whisteria that needs some fertilizing, bitches, Okay, I'm gonna

(31:46):
do this practical magic style. I got a pergola with
twisty whisteria vines all over it. Mm, fertilize it. Fuck
with me, see fafo. Okay, that's not a threat. I'm
just saying, should somebody ever try to come after me,
just for you know, saying, what's very odd coming to
an obvious conclusion based on a whole shit ton of

(32:07):
evidence gathered by the FBI and various law enforcement agencies.
All that to say, I hope they have charge soon,
and when they do, I'm gonna let you know. I promise,
I'll also let you know how long Brooks how and
his co conspirator get in prison. I'm gonna hope for
the maximum sentence. I don't think it's enough. Honestly, you

(32:31):
killed You killed a woman who had five fucking children.
How how dare you, like truly, I know, I'm like
trying to contain my rage. Who how fucking dare you?
Those kids have to grow up. They've been growing up

(32:51):
for ten years without their mother, and by all accounts,
she was a very very good mother. And Tom ballad
shot because why because he wanted to find his daughter
who'd been murdered. You're going to kill a father looking
for his daughter because he's getting too close to finding

(33:13):
her or to finding evidence that would implicate someone. Okay,
all right, next week, I hope to have a not
so depressing episode. I think I'm going to cover well,
I'm doing an Annabelle episode update right now. I wasn't
going to, because you know, you can chalk up like
one or two things to coincidence. But shit's been going down,

(33:39):
and literally not every city but a lot of cities
that she's gone to on her freaking Devil on the
Run tour. For whatever fucking reason, the people at the
New England whatever Society of Paranormal Research were like, you
know what, we should take this possessed doll that brings

(33:59):
death intotry auction everywhere she goes. We should take her
on the road road trip. Anybody let's do it. Uh Yeah,
And a plantation burned down, which I don't have a
problem with, Like the plantation, Like I understand people are like,
oh plantation, it's historicoal yah yah. Well, enslaved people were
kept there. I'm not going to celebrate it, okay. Also,

(34:21):
I think in Pennsylvania the nine to one one lines
went down when she got there. What else the plantation? Oh,
also in Louisiana. That was in Louisiana, also at the plantation,
or not at the plantation, but also in Louisiana, a
bunch of prisoners escaped from jail. I think if a
few of them haven't been found yet. Right after she

(34:42):
left to Louisiana, Marie Lavoe's like former home burned down,
and it was the home of a current voodoo priestess.
It's not the home that I stayed in. It was
another home she lived in. What else happened? Oh And
like just a couple of days ago, the guy who
was in charge of keeping her passed away. Don't know

(35:02):
how he died, but he was in her presence. I'm
not saying the doll killed him, but like, I'm not
ruling it out. I would absolutely not test that doll
you could not pay me to. I'm just gonna say,
you know, hi, there, miss Annabel, hope you're having a
nice day. Respect, I respect you deeply. Please don't hurt

(35:27):
me or anyone that I know or love. Now, a
whole bunch of shit's gone down. There's more than that.
I'm doing an update episode on that right now because
what is happening. And also she's going to my hometown,
Like in a couple of days, she's going to Scarefest
in Lexington, Kentucky. Yeah, I'm like, nope, i won't be
in Lexington that weekend. I'll make sure of it because

(35:49):
huh huh, fuck no, absolutely not anyway. Again, again, this
may be made up. She might not be possessed, she
might not have any sort of powers, But I'm not
going to be the one to test that out. You're
very brave if you do. It's kind of like Bloody Mary,
Like I know it's probably not real, but I'm not

(36:09):
gonna say it a third time or Biggie Small's or
you know any of that. If you don't know what
I'm talking about. That's a South Park episode. It's Bloody Mary.
Both Biggie Smalls instead, I am going to stop talking, yeah,
and stop talking now. Oh. Also, I'm doing an episode
on Michelle Remembers. If you don't know what that is,
it's a book that started the Satanic panic, Yeah, started it.

(36:33):
It's the cause, the root cause. So that's going to
be in your cues as well. I feel like what
you hear you can hear more episodes every Friday, released
on all podcast platforms. On social media, you can find
me on Instagram at Autumn's Podcast, also on Threads at
Autumn's Podcast. I prefer threads, Facebook at Autumn's Oddities, and

(36:54):
Patreon at Autumn's Auditees you get ad free episodes and
bonus episode codes. I just the other day last week,
I think put up a bonus episode about Knox Martin,
who is a real life Frankenstein case. He was hung
in the late eighteen hundreds. He gave permission for some
doctors at a medical university in Nashville to attempt to

(37:17):
reanimate his corpse. Allegedly they did do that, and they
say that he died right after, but other people say
they saw him in his home state of Alabama many
years later when he was an old man. You decide
give it a listen that's available at any level of
subscription and also on Patreon. I am considering doing like

(37:40):
a community group if you have any interest in like
just talking about witchcraft things like that, any sort of
herbal practice, like granny magic, Appalachian kind of granny magic,
folk magic, that kind of stuff. I'm interested. I'm getting
more interested reading up on it, and I really just

(38:01):
kind of want to start a little community of like
minded folk. It's not devil worship or anything like that.
I'm literally just talking about like Granny witch, and essentially
I've done a Granny Witch episode and Appalachian folk witch.
It's not really a witch. It's like an herbal healer,
a natural healer, someone in tune with nature and animals.
YadA YadA. It's not a religion of any sort. So

(38:24):
don't get up in arms about it, because I'm not
a fan of organized religion. I would not do that,
all right. Well, as always, I appreciate you listening, and
remember if it's creepy and weird, you'll find it here.