December 17, 2025 • 35 mins
Knives Out 3: A murder in a neo‑gothic church, a boxer who traded the ring for a collar, and a monsignor whose thunder hides a storm—this story had us leaning in from skepticism to surprise. What starts like a stylish whodunit unfolds into a thoughtful meditation on guilt, grace, and the strange mercy of suffering. We dig into why the narrative needed Catholicism—not just the aesthetics of stained glass and cassocks, but the hard edges of confession, penance, and redemptive love.
We share where the film won us over: Father Jud’s steady humility, the way ritual is presented as a living story, and a pivotal conversation that reframes doubt without smugness. Monsignor Wicks emerges as a cautionary tale of zeal unmoored from charity, while the detective’s barbs slowly reveal an old wound masquerading as certainty. Along the way we spot smart details—a well-placed theological book, a deliberate use of architecture—that signal someone behind the scenes knows the difference between costume and conviction.
Expect a candid take on content concerns, an honest compare to “faith” films that preach but don’t persuade, and a deeper look at the film’s central symbols, including an “Eve’s apple” motif that turns into a stark contrast between grasping and surrender. Whether you’re Catholic, curious, or just here for a sharp mystery with moral weight, this conversation aims to help you see the clues behind the clues—and maybe why repentance doesn’t shrink a life but sets it free.
If this resonates, follow the show, share with a friend who loves smart cinema, and leave a review with your take on the film’s portrayal of faith. We read every word.
Take advantage of great Catholic red wines by heading over to https://recusantcellars.com/ and using code "BASED" for 10% off at checkout!
********************************************************
Please subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKsxnv80ByFV4OGvt_kImjQ?sub_confirmation=1
https://www.avoidingbabylon.com
Merchandise: https://avoiding-babylon-shop.fourthwall.com
Locals Community: https://avoidingbabylon.locals.com
Full Premium/Locals Shows on Audio Podcast: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1987412/subscribe
RSS Feed for Podcast Apps: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/1987412.rss
Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/AvoidingBabylon
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:42):
Oh heck no.
SPEAKER_02 (00:48):
That was a good one.
SPEAKER_03 (00:50):
You made us both in better shape than we are.
I like that.
For sure.
I appreciate that, Dev.
Lila Rose about to reignite theco-sleeping wars.
Keith Desner texted me thatearlier.
Oh, did he?
Keith texted me that screenshot.
He goes, Lila Rose is trying totrying to divide and conquer
(01:11):
avoiding Babylon.
I was like, oh, this will befun.
We can reignite the co-sleepingdebate.
Um yeah, we didn't do a showThursday, so it's been like a
week since we've been on.
Um that but that like the thethe the intro videos kind of um
apt to my week because I was inCanada and my wife spent a ton
(01:33):
of money shopping, so it wasn'tme carrying the bags, but we had
to send the girls off to goshopping.
SPEAKER_02 (01:38):
So if you'd like to support Avoiding Babylon, here's
a link to our tip jar.
SPEAKER_03 (01:43):
Perfect segue.
No, not for nothing.
I went to I go away to Banff.
Um I got I hung out withHoldsworth and Mike Pantila,
dragged them both down there.
I got to spend the weekend withthose guys, plus all the people
that I did my former pilgrimagewith.
Yeah, so um we were there forlike five days.
Mike and Brian came down Friday.
Mike got there Friday morning,Brian got there Friday night.
(02:06):
Um, because you pestered him fora full day, right?
I pestered Mike.
Mike was like, as soon as we gotwe were going, he's like, I'm
I'm in.
But Brian was kind ofinteresting.
Uh Holdsworth basically told meright up until he made the
decision that he wasn't going tobe able to make it.
He's like, Yeah, I don't thinkso, man.
Things are really crazy, toobusy.
And then we were out to dinnerFriday night, and Mike Pantila,
(02:30):
because they go to the sameparish, and Mike Pantila's wife
was like, No, no, no Brian's onhis way, he's already heading
down.
He'll be he'll be here around 11o'clock.
I'm like, he doesn't even tellme, he just tells her.
Brian and I have very similartemperaments.
He just can't say no.
We were actually laughingbecause first off, I met Mike's
wife and I met Brian's wife.
Mike's wife is a doll.
(02:51):
Mike and his wife are verysimilar to me and Nicole, like
they both have the sametemperaments, like as me and
Nicole.
Yeah, it's they're they it it'slike a mirrored relationship,
it's pretty funny.
But Brian and his wife are verysimilar to you and Hope, where
like they're both melancholic,they're both like so.
We were kind of joking around.
I'm like, I can't even imaginewhat an argument in your house
(03:13):
is like.
And Brian said, he's like,there's a lot of just like
burying it deep inside, staringquietly at each other from
across the road.
We both give each other thesilent treatment for days on
end.
I'm like, oh, I know.
And then comes the melancholicdump.
Yeah, he's like, he's like, Oh,I you know about that.
My my co-host does this quiteoften.
(03:36):
But don't make me laugh toomuch, it hurts.
Because me and you, uh, well,you're sick, right?
So you're you're you're you areout of work today.
I'm I'm actually home because wegot snow, I got snow in New
York.
So Rob's homesick, and I got uhlike eight inches of snow on
Long Island.
It's the first time we've gottensnow in December in years.
Um, and you really can't dopaving when it's snowing out.
(03:57):
So I was home yesterday andtoday.
So when you said you were sick,I was like, is there any chance
you want to do an afternoonshow?
Which is nice because it's likeyou have a little bit of energy.
So then it was like, okay, whatdo we talk about?
And I told Rob to watch thismovie because I watched it last
night.
But but before we even get tothat, we are both home and poor.
(04:18):
I just went on vacation and nowI'm laid off.
SPEAKER_02 (04:21):
Unlike what a certain um vagabond on Twitter
likes to think.
Us trads ain't uh rolling inmoney.
SPEAKER_03 (04:28):
So no, no, not at all.
No, but honestly, it's the endof the year.
This is our Christmas gift.
If you guys would like to giveus a little bit of a Christmas
gift, Rob left the barcode up inthe top right corner or the
whatever that thing is.
SPEAKER_02 (04:40):
It's it if you can't do the scan thing, go to
avoidingbabylon.com and there'sa donate button at the top.
I don't like using the worddonate because we're not a
nonprofit.
Like yeah, it's just throwing usa tip.
SPEAKER_03 (04:53):
Like, if you guys enjoy the show and you want to
give us something without givingYouTube a cut, it's better than
super chats.
SPEAKER_02 (04:58):
You have to do it in increments of five dollars.
I couldn't figure out how to doit otherwise.
So sorry, it's a little janky,but a little janky.
SPEAKER_03 (05:06):
But yes, if you guys would like to throw us a tip for
the end of the year, that wouldbe very nice.
Uh LLC money already dried up.
I actually, you know what?
We haven't even I we I haven'twe'll get into that later.
Whatever.
It's not even worth gettinginto.
Um, yeah, it's been it'sactually been the the the the
least profitable month since westarted the show, I think.
(05:27):
But we'll get into that.
Well, that's because it's allgoing into the LLC instead of
our pockets, yeah.
So we're we're both broke rightnow, but um, okay, so also
Reccu's and Sellers.
If you guys haven't, it's agreat idea for a Christmas gift.
You guys still have a shot atgetting a bottle of wine for
Christmas.
So if you can, go torecusandcellars.com, use code
(05:47):
based at checkout for 10% off.
Really is a great Christmasidea.
Like if you're going to yourin-laws or somewhere and you
want to bring a gift, bottle forsure.
Thing to bring.
Catholic family, awesomesupporters of the show.
We love Recus and Sellers.
They also have fruit that uh Idon't know how the fruit works
in the winter, but maybe theyhave stuff that's still stopped.
SPEAKER_02 (06:06):
Uh, I don't think they have it at this time of the
year.
SPEAKER_03 (06:08):
Yeah, so well, you know, if you can bring a bottle
of wine to Christmas.
Uh, it's a it's a it's a greatgift.
So go to ReckySyncellars.com,use code based at checkout for
10% off.
Thank you.
All right, so to the show.
Yeah, so I was I I watched itlast night, and after watching
it, I I thought it was great.
And I shot a tweet out and I waslike, hey, um, latest Netflix
(06:32):
knives out uh is a reallyinteresting show.
It's like it depicts twopriests.
Um, and I thought by the end ofit, it showed it was like it was
like a really well done moviewho would that that showed
repentance and grace and meaningand suffering.
Like I thought it was reallywell done.
(06:54):
So I tweeted that out, and MattMarsden wrote back to me saying
that I thought it was a horriblecliche caricature of Catholics.
And I felt like I was like, arewe watching different movies?
So I I asked Rob to watch ittoday to just kind of give me
his feedback, and I figured we'dwe'd talk about it here.
So, what was your are you do youlean more towards my end or
Marsden?
SPEAKER_02 (07:15):
So um I started watching it, and I've I've not
seen the two previous Knives Outmovies.
So when you said there was a newKnives Out movie out, I'm like,
I don't even know what you'retalking about.
But um, so I started watchingit, and um it's probably 20-30
minutes into the sh the movie.
I I tell my wife, I I say, youknow, to hope I'm like, I don't
know why Anthony has me watchthese stupid movies.
(07:37):
Like him and I clearly have verydifferent taste.
Um but then it was probably it'sit's a longer movie than you'd
think.
You know, it was getting to whatI felt was gonna be towards the
end, and I looked and it washalfway through, yeah, and I'm
like, this is actually gettinggood.
I want to watch the rest of thismovie, and um and by the end,
(08:00):
yeah, it was um uh I you know,so I know Rian Johnson directed
it, right?
SPEAKER_03 (08:09):
Um, I don't know who else was involved in it, but I
really do feel like there wassomeone involved in it that was
that that is deeply Catholic,deeply Catholic and like knows
the Catholic world because Robtexts me before the before the
movie, and he goes, dude, thisis Father Altman.
Like the so all right, so thethe movie basically we we'll try
(08:30):
not to destroy the plot if youguys haven't seen it yet.
Because it's a murder mystery,like we can't yeah, and it's a
yeah, we won't we won't spoilthe movie on you, but we'll give
you like the general plot.
SPEAKER_02 (08:40):
It's a it's not like I confess where we're talking
about a murder mystery moviefrom 60 years ago.
SPEAKER_03 (08:44):
Yeah, it's brand new, so people might not have
seen it yet.
But like initial impressions,like the main the main character
of the movie is a guy who is aboxer, and he becomes a priest
after he kills someone in theboxing ring, right?
So, this is a guy who who isfight is he's a boxer, he kills
someone in the boxing ring, andhe feels in his heart that like
(09:09):
he kind of knew what he wasdoing, and he had hatred in his
heart.
SPEAKER_02 (09:13):
He maybe didn't intend to kill the guy, you
know, so there was no criminalcase, but he had hatred in his
heart for him, so he does feellike it was morally murder,
yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (09:24):
So, and but he doesn't he the the way his
character develops, it's like hefinds this freedom in Christ,
and he and that and that isportrayed throughout the movie.
Now, the other character, theprotagonist would that be the
protagonist, I guess.
SPEAKER_02 (09:38):
Yeah, played by uh no, the antagonist.
SPEAKER_03 (09:40):
Played by Josh Brolin, right?
Yeah, sure play played by JoshBrolin.
This guy is modeled after FatherAltman.
I would not be surprised if likeI'm I'm pretty sure they they
actually just did a personal.
Some of the mannerisms, some ofthe uh supposed advice is um the
(10:03):
thing is like part of like thethe part of the father well
Monsignor Wicks is the guy'sname in the movie.
Something he does is he'sintentionally provocative to try
and get people to walk out.
Yeah, and I the first time I sawFather Altman was at the
canceled priest conference, andI walked out during his talk.
(10:26):
Like, that's how I was likeoffended by the things he was
saying, and I was just like, Ican't even be in here for the
and I walked out.
It it felt very much like that,where it was intentionally
fiery.
And look, this and and there aretrue things that this Monsignor
Wix says.
Like, don't get me wrong.
SPEAKER_02 (10:43):
There are like the whoever that this movie really
did capture.
I mean, uh not the oh the entirecrisis in the church, but it
really did capture kind of thewar against modernism, right?
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:56):
So the so they so this this Monsignor Wix is
talking about like all thethings the church is facing, the
Marxists and uh this and thethat, and you know, all all the
things that the church isactually facing.
So you want to side with him,but he is a villain, and and he
has like rottenness in hisheart.
(11:17):
Now, the the the protagonist ofthe film, Father Judd, seems
like he's very much modeledafter a father Mike Schmidt's.
SPEAKER_02 (11:26):
Very much so, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (11:28):
Which, you know, I people might have criticism of
Father Mike Schmitz, but youcould tell the man has a deep
love for Christ.
Like he just does.
Father Mike has a very deep lovefor Christ, and this priest in
this movie does also.
Like, he's there's there's somany things that that uh come up
where it it starts off like theopening scene in the movie is he
(11:49):
punches a deacon in the face,you know, and when he's when
he's being disciplined by his umby the eclipse, yeah, by his
bishop.
First off, the none of thepriests are f effeminate in this
movie.
No, they're all very masculine,including the bishop.
The bishop is like, yeah, youknow, that guy kind of deserves
a punch in the face.
SPEAKER_02 (12:07):
Like the bishop is is played by the the black guy
from Westworld, right?
SPEAKER_03 (12:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sorry, so none of the priestsare effeminate in it.
Um there are there are somecaricatures that you know would
make Catholics maybe look likethey're you know a bit over the
top or and stuff like that, butI didn't none of that bothered
(12:33):
me because of none of it feltuntrue or forced, you know, or
derogatory towards Catholics atall.
Yeah, and you know, yeah, andthen and there's one scene where
the the the lead detective, hisname is Blanc, he he meets the
priest for the first time, thegood priest, the good priest,
(12:56):
and uh Father Judd asks Blancwhat he feels like how how do
you feel about the church thatwe're in?
And Blanc goes in this longdiatribe about you know the
church and its homophobia andall this.
It does like the typical liberalbashing of the church, but then
kind of gets into how his motherwas overly religious, and that
(13:20):
like you could kind of see hishangups come, and the excuses he
makes for why he isn't religiousare basically like um it's cope.
Yeah, it's it's a lot of cope,and it's a lot of a lot of stuff
you would see in in youreveryday life of the
justifications people make forwhy they have left the church or
(13:43):
no longer attend the sacraments,things like that.
It's a it's very much somethingyou would hear somebody say.
So it's even in his criticismsof the church, you're like,
Yeah, I've seen this guy, youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (13:56):
Like he doesn't go as far as saying, you know,
pulling out the reddit tier likesky daddy stuff, but it almost
gets to that uh point, and andyou can tell he's he's wrapping
his his uh sorry guys.
Yeah, he's a little thing.
Maybe maybe his his ownmoralities he's wrapping his
(14:18):
insecurities with his mother andhis upbringing in like this
whole you know new atheistrationality sort of cope.
SPEAKER_03 (14:26):
And then I think the movie makes it actually really
obvious, very obvious, and thenFather Judd's response to him
because he's like the thesestories, and you know, these
stories they try to enraptureyou, and I'm facing I'm facing
this story, and and FatherJudd's response is like, Yeah,
it yeah, it is a story.
Um, including the religious garbthat we wear, including the
(14:47):
rituals that we do there,they're all story, and that's
kind of how man perceives theworld is through story.
And the idea the the thing is wehave to really consider does the
story hint at a deeper moraltruth and a deeper real truth
that gets to the depth of who weare, and like he goes through
this long explanation, and thenall of a sudden, um Father Judge
(15:10):
starts to get like emotional.
And Blanc is like, What whatwhat's going on?
What's going on?
He's like, I just I kind of feltlike a priest for a moment
because the the priest is theone being accused of of the
murder that takes place in theshow, and he got the good
priest, the good priest, the badpriest is murdered, the good
priest is accused of it, and heand the way he gets overwhelmed
(15:32):
in giving his explanation, itwas it was a very good um it was
a very good catechesis momentthat he gives about it.
Sound sounded like something Iwould say, and then he gets
overwhelmed.
It also sounded exactly likeFather Mike, right?
Talks in Bible in the year.
And when he gets overwhelmed,though, I'm I'm like, that
(15:54):
that's kind of like it made methink of why we even started
doing this show, and a lot of ithad to do with because I uh what
is she what is she texting me?
Oh sorry.
Um like why we started doingthis show is because I always
(16:17):
had anytime I would bediscussing the faith, I would
feel alive.
Like I it was it was a it wassomething about my in my
conversations in everyday life.
The time I felt the most aliveis when I was talking about God
to people, and I saw that inthis priest where he he's
discussing the faith and thechurch because he's explaining
(16:39):
the church.
He's like that, you know, thethe story this church is telling
it's kind of weird because it'snot even a middle-aged church,
it's really a 19th-century umneo-gothic.
Yeah, it's like a neo-gothicchurch.
He's like, but it's stilltelling a story.
He's like, But these storiesresonate with us, and it sounded
like some like something I wouldsay, and that I would feel like
my heart jumping as I wastelling it to whoever I was
(17:02):
telling it to, and then he hasthat moment.
I I I just thought it was reallywell done.
Um, I do have a statue of OurLady I could put behind me.
That might be a good idea.
Um, so yeah, so overall, youknow, there are going to be
things that people can becritical of.
Like Matthew Marsden's critiquewas he's like, you know, that it
was just a stereotypical badpriest calling his mother the
(17:24):
harlot whore.
And I'm like, that that's whatgot you.
SPEAKER_02 (17:28):
I mean, like, I've never heard that stereotype, to
be honest.
SPEAKER_03 (17:34):
I don't know, I don't know what he was getting
at.
I but the end the way the movieends is very well done um in
showing how repentance and likelike true healing comes through
repentance and finding meaningin your suffering.
There's there's two stories thatkind of end in the movie where
(17:57):
these two themes come to life.
So for anybody that does want towatch the movie, it's not you
know, I mean it's a it's a it'sa secular movie.
Uh it just I thought that thethemes were very well done, and
I thought that in the end, itreally brought home this idea of
repentance actually leads totrue freedom, and that you find
(18:20):
your meaning and your miraclethrough suffering, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:25):
Um, um, one little uh Easter egg that I saw that I
thought was pretty funny was atone point there, um, the
detective played by Daniel Craigis in uh Father Judd's room, and
uh you see on the floor um acopy of uh Bishop Schneider's uh
Krato.
SPEAKER_03 (18:44):
How Rob he goes, did you see the did you see the the
copy of Krato in in the set?
I was like, I did not even seeit.
SPEAKER_02 (18:50):
And it's clearly visible.
SPEAKER_03 (18:52):
You can read Krato on it, and if you have it, you
know exactly what it is, whichis what makes me think whoever
was on this set was either theythey had traditional Catholics
on this set, giving insight intoprobably Monsignor Wick's
character, yeah, right?
This fiery traditional priestwho's preaching hell and
(19:14):
brimstone and uh tradition, umnot traditional and liturgy,
right?
Not liturgical, no.
It definitely wasn'tliturgically traditional, but
it's this fire and brimstonepreaching, and but that Easter
egg is an Easter egg.
So whoever whoever was on setclearly put that.
SPEAKER_02 (19:32):
I mean, it's not it's not like it's the only
other books they that arerecognizable in the the the
movie are the ones that uhDaniel Craig's detective
character, you know, they'relike old murder mysteries that
he reads out of to figure outthe mystery.
Other than those, this is theonly book that's clearly
visible.
So it was interesting.
SPEAKER_03 (19:51):
Yeah, it was just I look, it was an interesting
movie.
I thought it came home, and inthe end, it showed a Christ
figure for the priest.
A guy and it also showed howgreed and the love of money can
destroy a person.
Money, money, greed, and powercan really destroy a person.
SPEAKER_02 (20:12):
And there's and actually with the with now that
I think about it, all the um allof the prisoners there had some
sort of predominant fault,right?
That really ended up destroyingalmost all of them.
None of them really uh make itout uh virtuously, you know.
So that that was interestingtoo.
SPEAKER_03 (20:32):
Except the one the the girl with the cello.
SPEAKER_02 (20:36):
True, that yeah, that yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_03 (20:38):
That that was that one was really important to
catch, also, because uh that wasthe one that kind of like the
meaning through suffering one.
So um yeah, there's also likethis this whole theme of of uh
don't don't search for Eve'sapple now.
(21:01):
Christ is your redemption,Christ is your inheritance now.
Like the this whole theme of ofof Eve's apple, like don't go
and and bite the apple nowbecause Christ, your
inheritance, is here now.
That is your that is yourinheritance.
SPEAKER_02 (21:17):
Even in the end, um Eve's apple, which we we're not
gonna say what it is, not thatit's a big secret, but Eve's
apple ends up, which which isthe source of so much evil in
the show, is almost umtypologically, it's like
redeemed in in the crucifiedChrist, right?
Yeah, because that's where itends up being placed in this
(21:38):
this this crucifix that hebuilds himself for the church
ends up containing Eve's applein it.
SPEAKER_03 (21:44):
Yeah, there's there's some some good typology
in that that I enjoyed.
So um, yeah, we figured we wouldjump on, just do a quick
20-minute, 25-minute summationof the movie.
Because I think if because acouple of people that saw it
responded to me and said, I madeit through 30 minutes and I
turned it off.
And that was Rob's instinct,too.
(22:04):
He's like, he's like, I don'tknow what you know, why is
Anthony even making me watchthis?
But if you finish the movie out,especially after you get to to
the halfway mark, you'll startseeing these themes popping up,
and especially in the the mainfather Judd, like the things
that he's getting at, and he'sconstantly trying to bring
(22:25):
people to to healing throughChrist.
And I I mean, I I thought it wasvery well done.
Uh, you know, it's clearly asecular movie, so I'm not going
to act like it's you know thethe the the sequel to passion or
anything, you know.
But I think if uh no, you'regoing to get a full show because
we're gonna go to locals next.
SPEAKER_02 (22:44):
So we're gonna kind of keep this one short because
we figure people that watchmovie reviews don't want to
watch an hour-long movie review,but we are going to and it'd be
weird if like you know, 25minutes into a movie review
suddenly became about you knowthe Jewish question, it just no.
SPEAKER_03 (23:00):
So, what we're going to do over on locals, we're
gonna discuss voice of reason,but there's also one clip of the
movie I want to play, and that'sthe that's the scene we just
discussed before with whereBlunk meets um Father Judd.
So we're going to go over tolocals.
If we play it over here, we'llget a copyright strike and
they'll kill the stream on us.
So if if we go over to locals,we can play that clip, and then
(23:21):
I want to discuss Alex for voiceof a reason his him him thinking
he's coming back because hekeeps pretending he's oh, I'm
listening to my spiritualfathers, but it's just this this
this is appalling, in myopinion.
And then uh Rob's got aninteresting story of a woman who
wanted her daughter to be uh analtar server, and the priest
(23:46):
said no.
SPEAKER_02 (23:48):
Um there's an interesting comment on locals,
actually.
Um, so uh they say apparentlyRyan Johnson made the film to
grapple with his upbringing andevangelicalism, but chose
Catholicism for the film becauseof aesthetics, saying that the
most of the churches he went togrowing up were like pottery
barns.
Apparently, he did talk to atable full of priests in Denver,
(24:11):
and Father Scott Bailey was thetechnical consultant for the
script.
SPEAKER_03 (24:15):
Think about it.
I forgot to even bring that up.
I'm so glad that comment was inthere because that's the first
thing I thought is people.
If you want to depictChristianity properly, you need
to do it with Catholicism.
You cannot do it withProtestantism.
No, that movie would not haveworked, it would not have
(24:35):
worked.
You needed it to be these twopriests, you needed to have the
sacrament of reconciliation,like you needed to have the
sacrament of reconciliation atthe end.
You needed redemptive suffering.
The none Protestantism doesn'toffer any of what these themes
grapple with in the movie, ithad to be done the way it was
(24:56):
done, and that's all I wasthinking throughout the movie is
this only works if it's Catholicpriests that you're talking
about.
SPEAKER_02 (25:03):
Um all you get with Protestantism is God's not dead,
one, two, and three.
That's it, right?
SPEAKER_03 (25:09):
So, in an interesting way, all of the like
the best tools for evangelismare always going to be through
Catholicism because you'reyou're playing with these themes
that Protestantism nevertouches.
And and like actual red, thisisn't like oh, oh, well, I've
been saved though, right?
No, you're dealing with peoplewho are Christian and grappling
(25:30):
with redemption in their ownlives.
It's it's a really it's a reallygood, uh, a really uh it's every
movie that has to deal with thisstuff.
If you want to do demonicpossession, you have to use
Catholicism.
If you want any of these things,you need the aesthetics, not
just the aesthetics, but thetheology of Catholicism.
Yeah, it doesn't work withoutour theology.
(25:52):
Um, so uh yeah, all right.
So we're going to jump over tolocals to uh let's see.
Um I'm sorry, uh Christian Mariojust texted me.
Um all right, so we're going togo love you, Rob, love you,
(26:14):
Anthony, love you, chat.
There you go.
Um, so we're gonna go over tolocals.
We're gonna discuss uh we'regonna play a clip from the movie
that I definitely want to umthat I definitely want to uh
show.
And then we're gonna discussvoice of reason.
And I want to discuss that umthat woman who wanted her
daughter to be an altar serverbecause it kind of just shows
you the um the mindset of womenwho push their kids to do things
(26:39):
that they don't even want to do,but they're activists and they
can't help themselves.
SPEAKER_02 (26:44):
So that's what we're gonna do over there.
For the record, we're notnecessarily recommending the
movie, especially to like otherlike faithful Catholics.
It's a secular secular movie.
SPEAKER_03 (26:56):
It's just I'm trying to pull the good out of it,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (27:00):
Especially because when uh secular people go and
see it, they might havequestions about Catholicism for
you.
SPEAKER_03 (27:07):
You know, you know, it's not something I would man.
I don't know if I I I would sayI shouldn't recommend it though.
Like I I don't know.
I uh I mean there's definitelysome is there blasphemy in it?
Um I didn't pick up on it.
SPEAKER_02 (27:24):
I'm sure the only part I remember in there was one
time when uh Martha scaresFather Judd and he jumps.
SPEAKER_03 (27:32):
Oh, and he takes the Lord's name in vain, right?
SPEAKER_02 (27:35):
Um there's probably more, but it wasn't so egregious
where it stuck out to me.
SPEAKER_03 (27:42):
No, and there wasn't foul language.
So somebody's asking, is itteenager appropriate?
Yeah, I would say it is.
SPEAKER_02 (27:47):
Yeah, and there was no nudity.
There was the the uh MonsignorWick's mother is dressed
somewhat scandalously, at leastbefore that.
SPEAKER_03 (27:57):
In confession, confesses uh he does confess,
yeah.
He can he confesses sins of theflesh in confession, but it's
he's it's it's a bit of a vulgarconversation, but um that's
about it.
Yeah, I would say, yeah, thosethose are the warnings.
Um, yeah, this the yeah, that II would say that's probably the
(28:21):
the hardest part to sit throughis the vulgar confession, but at
the same time, he's trying to dosomething with that, like he's
trying to there's a plot pointthere, yeah.
There's a plot point to it, he'strying to shock the priest and
scare him off or something likethat.
So it's like um it's not andlike it, it's he kind of just
(28:41):
says our lord's name real quick.
He doesn't say it, he doesn'tsay GD or anything.
SPEAKER_02 (28:46):
Like, I don't remember any GDs in it.
SPEAKER_03 (28:48):
No, I don't think there was.
I he just says our Lord's namereal quick, and it's not even
like JC, where he uses itvulgarly.
He's just like he's jump scaredand he it was our Lord's name,
right?
Yeah, it was uh yeah, so um it'sdefinitely less vulgar than uh
father um what was that moviewith Marky Mark and Mel Gibson?
SPEAKER_02 (29:10):
Well, it's probably less vul vulgar than Father
Altman's sermons, yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (29:15):
Less vulgar than Father Altman's sermons.
SPEAKER_02 (29:17):
Um Father Stew, yeah.
Father Stewart's way, waybetter.
Honestly, it's a it's a bettermovie morally than Father Stew.
I think so.
SPEAKER_03 (29:26):
100 better than Father Stew, uh, because it's
way less vulgar than FatherStew.
And I father stew, you'rewatching this whole vulgar movie
for one payoff speech at theend.
SPEAKER_02 (29:38):
Yeah, that's essentially it.
SPEAKER_03 (29:40):
You watched this movie.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
And it was very shallow.
Like, I'm not gonna say shallow,but I'm it the message was right
there on the surface.
Whereas I mean, maybe maybewe're reading into this movie
more than we should, but uh, Ithere's some I think there's
some deep stuff here.
SPEAKER_03 (29:55):
I do too.
I like that's that's the that'show I came away thinking about
it.
And my wife was kind of like inand out in the first half hour.
She's like, I don't know if I'mgonna watch the same same as
you, but then once it gets intothose deeper themes and
conversations, I was like, Thisthis is some good stuff here,
like this might actually sparksomeone's heart if they're
paying attention.
(30:16):
Yeah, like I don't know.
I I think it could.
I don't know.
So we'll see.
Um, all right.
So we're gonna head over tolocals.
If you guys can, please join usover there.
It's gonna be uh uhcontinuation.
So we're doing early today,Thursday.
We're going to be on with MikeChurch.
SPEAKER_02 (30:34):
So um that'll be going to be an interesting
subject.
So this is a show where um theyjust he picks a subject, not
church related, and just has adiscussion with it on that
subject with a few guys.
I think this subject is about uhChristmas movies.
Oh, which is like Anthony'sspecialty, he'll he'll ruin
(30:56):
everyone's day.
SPEAKER_03 (30:58):
I'm I'm wondering if I should play the troll up of
pretending I don't like it's awonderful life.
I don't actually dislike thatmovie, it just makes everybody
so mad.
Where was I I don't think I'veever watched it.
I think I've tried watching ittwice and I fell asleep, but
I've never actually watched It'sa Wonderful Life.
(31:21):
Uh that one and Johnny Cash.
If you if you if you say JohnnyCash things, people lose their
minds.
Um, so all right, so we're gonnahead over to to locals.
Uh but yeah, so we'll be oh allright, we'll be on we on Mike
Church at 7 p.m.
Eastern.
Hope we're hoping that runsabout an hour, and then we may
just come over and do a localshow on our channel.
SPEAKER_02 (31:40):
We'll see how that goes.
SPEAKER_03 (31:42):
Yeah, we'll probably just do a local show on our
channel.
So if you guys are localsmembers, just pay attention to
that.
We'll we'll probably just jumpon from uh my church right over
to our locals, and we'll do anhour over on locals, and uh
that'll be a Thursday show, andthat'll be our our out before
Christmas.
SPEAKER_02 (31:58):
No, we'll have Tuesday.
No, we'll have Tuesday.
Okay, and then maybe we'll do uhno.
Uh is it Friday or Saturday?
We're on with the Catholicunscripted next week.
SPEAKER_03 (32:06):
Uh Saturday, I think we're on with Catholic Scripted
uh Catholic Unscripted.
I don't know if we're doing thaton our channel or theirs.
SPEAKER_02 (32:12):
We haven't up here either.
SPEAKER_03 (32:14):
Yeah, we haven't really hammered that out yet.
If it's on ours, maybe we'lljust go live.
Yeah, we'll go live and thenwe'll yeah, we'll figure that
out.
I don't know.
That's that's next week.
So all right, guys, we'll see.
Oh, I have a question.
If someone isn't able to takecommunion, should they be going
up to get a blessing during theTLM?
SPEAKER_02 (32:33):
I would say there's no reason to.
You definitely can, but it's thesame blessing everyone receives
at the end of Mass.
SPEAKER_03 (32:41):
Um the the mass we went to in Banff, Canada, the
priest, um the priest beforecommunion, uh like gave a whole
little uh like talk about likemaking sure that like those of
you who are because it was a wehad to go to a novel soda, it
was the only thing we had.
There's no Latin there.
(33:03):
I wasn't I I still don't thinkyou you have a you I don't I
still don't think I could missmy Sunday obligation.
So anyway, the the priest waslike gave a whole talk about
before communion about makingsure you can consume the host
immediately if you're receivingon the hand.
Uh and he said, if you have achild who hasn't yet made their
communion, just tell them tocome up with their arms crossed
(33:24):
and I'll give them a blessing.
But that's a novice order,that's not a Latin.
SPEAKER_02 (33:27):
And Mrs.
Casey's right, uh diocesanparishes, like when I go up with
my, you know, with kids tocommunion, just because there's
no way I'm leaving those threewildlings behind as we go up for
communion.
Um, the diocesan priest doesgive them a blessing, but uh the
trad trad orders probably won't.
SPEAKER_03 (33:45):
I don't know.
Before my daughter made hercommunion, I at the SSPX chapel
we went up to receive, and theand father gave my daughter a
blessing at the SSPX.
So I don't know if that's like astandard rule.
I guess that would be priest,maybe priest dependent, you
know.
Like she came up, I was holdingher, and he gave me communion,
he just made the sign of thecross on her head and gave her a
(34:07):
blessing.
So I don't know if it's like Idon't know if somebody else went
up there like this.
He was, you know, that's that'sinappropriate.
You're kneeling at the communionrail, could could lead to
confusion.
So I would say no.
Yeah, for sure.
Um, Catholic Unscripted saidthey they want to talk to us
about Fuentas.
That's interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (34:24):
Where where did you see that?
SPEAKER_03 (34:26):
Uh in the locals chat.
Oh, they're in the locals chatright now.
No, no, no.
Uh Nikki Vu said I heardCatholic Unscripted saying
they're going to ask you aboutFuentas.
Okay, sounds good.
Um, all right, guys, we'll seeyou on the other side.
Come and join us on locals.
If you're not already a localmember, that's the best way to
support us.
SPEAKER_02 (34:43):
Let me let me post it in the chat here, real quick.
And pin it.
So if you're in the chat rightnow, just click on that link to
head over.
And uh, I'm gonna just startcutting uh streams off here.
We'll start with Facebook.
SPEAKER_03 (34:58):
Somebody's asking what we thought of the Fuentes
and Piers Morgan thing.
Watch it was one of the funniestinterviews I've ever seen.
SPEAKER_02 (35:08):
For some reason, this didn't go out on your
Twitter today.
I would have swore I clicked it,but whatever.
SPEAKER_03 (35:15):
Uh recently renewed my local support for a third
year, and this is the first timeI.
Oh heck no.
SPEAKER_02 (00:48):
That was a good one.
SPEAKER_03 (00:50):
You made us both in better shape than we are.
I like that.
For sure.
I appreciate that, Dev.
Lila Rose about to reignite theco-sleeping wars.
Keith Desner texted me thatearlier.
Oh, did he?
Keith texted me that screenshot.
He goes, Lila Rose is trying totrying to divide and conquer
(01:11):
avoiding Babylon.
I was like, oh, this will befun.
We can reignite the co-sleepingdebate.
Um yeah, we didn't do a showThursday, so it's been like a
week since we've been on.
Um that but that like the thethe the intro videos kind of um
apt to my week because I was inCanada and my wife spent a ton
(01:33):
of money shopping, so it wasn'tme carrying the bags, but we had
to send the girls off to goshopping.
SPEAKER_02 (01:38):
So if you'd like to support Avoiding Babylon, here's
a link to our tip jar.
SPEAKER_03 (01:43):
Perfect segue.
No, not for nothing.
I went to I go away to Banff.
Um I got I hung out withHoldsworth and Mike Pantila,
dragged them both down there.
I got to spend the weekend withthose guys, plus all the people
that I did my former pilgrimagewith.
Yeah, so um we were there forlike five days.
Mike and Brian came down Friday.
Mike got there Friday morning,Brian got there Friday night.
(02:06):
Um, because you pestered him fora full day, right?
I pestered Mike.
Mike was like, as soon as we gotwe were going, he's like, I'm
I'm in.
But Brian was kind ofinteresting.
Uh Holdsworth basically told meright up until he made the
decision that he wasn't going tobe able to make it.
He's like, Yeah, I don't thinkso, man.
Things are really crazy, toobusy.
And then we were out to dinnerFriday night, and Mike Pantila,
(02:30):
because they go to the sameparish, and Mike Pantila's wife
was like, No, no, no Brian's onhis way, he's already heading
down.
He'll be he'll be here around 11o'clock.
I'm like, he doesn't even tellme, he just tells her.
Brian and I have very similartemperaments.
He just can't say no.
We were actually laughingbecause first off, I met Mike's
wife and I met Brian's wife.
Mike's wife is a doll.
(02:51):
Mike and his wife are verysimilar to me and Nicole, like
they both have the sametemperaments, like as me and
Nicole.
Yeah, it's they're they it it'slike a mirrored relationship,
it's pretty funny.
But Brian and his wife are verysimilar to you and Hope, where
like they're both melancholic,they're both like so.
We were kind of joking around.
I'm like, I can't even imaginewhat an argument in your house
(03:13):
is like.
And Brian said, he's like,there's a lot of just like
burying it deep inside, staringquietly at each other from
across the road.
We both give each other thesilent treatment for days on
end.
I'm like, oh, I know.
And then comes the melancholicdump.
Yeah, he's like, he's like, Oh,I you know about that.
My my co-host does this quiteoften.
(03:36):
But don't make me laugh toomuch, it hurts.
Because me and you, uh, well,you're sick, right?
So you're you're you're you areout of work today.
I'm I'm actually home because wegot snow, I got snow in New
York.
So Rob's homesick, and I got uhlike eight inches of snow on
Long Island.
It's the first time we've gottensnow in December in years.
Um, and you really can't dopaving when it's snowing out.
(03:57):
So I was home yesterday andtoday.
So when you said you were sick,I was like, is there any chance
you want to do an afternoonshow?
Which is nice because it's likeyou have a little bit of energy.
So then it was like, okay, whatdo we talk about?
And I told Rob to watch thismovie because I watched it last
night.
But but before we even get tothat, we are both home and poor.
(04:18):
I just went on vacation and nowI'm laid off.
SPEAKER_02 (04:21):
Unlike what a certain um vagabond on Twitter
likes to think.
Us trads ain't uh rolling inmoney.
SPEAKER_03 (04:28):
So no, no, not at all.
No, but honestly, it's the endof the year.
This is our Christmas gift.
If you guys would like to giveus a little bit of a Christmas
gift, Rob left the barcode up inthe top right corner or the
whatever that thing is.
SPEAKER_02 (04:40):
It's it if you can't do the scan thing, go to
avoidingbabylon.com and there'sa donate button at the top.
I don't like using the worddonate because we're not a
nonprofit.
Like yeah, it's just throwing usa tip.
SPEAKER_03 (04:53):
Like, if you guys enjoy the show and you want to
give us something without givingYouTube a cut, it's better than
super chats.
SPEAKER_02 (04:58):
You have to do it in increments of five dollars.
I couldn't figure out how to doit otherwise.
So sorry, it's a little janky,but a little janky.
SPEAKER_03 (05:06):
But yes, if you guys would like to throw us a tip for
the end of the year, that wouldbe very nice.
Uh LLC money already dried up.
I actually, you know what?
We haven't even I we I haven'twe'll get into that later.
Whatever.
It's not even worth gettinginto.
Um, yeah, it's been it'sactually been the the the the
least profitable month since westarted the show, I think.
(05:27):
But we'll get into that.
Well, that's because it's allgoing into the LLC instead of
our pockets, yeah.
So we're we're both broke rightnow, but um, okay, so also
Reccu's and Sellers.
If you guys haven't, it's agreat idea for a Christmas gift.
You guys still have a shot atgetting a bottle of wine for
Christmas.
So if you can, go torecusandcellars.com, use code
(05:47):
based at checkout for 10% off.
Really is a great Christmasidea.
Like if you're going to yourin-laws or somewhere and you
want to bring a gift, bottle forsure.
Thing to bring.
Catholic family, awesomesupporters of the show.
We love Recus and Sellers.
They also have fruit that uh Idon't know how the fruit works
in the winter, but maybe theyhave stuff that's still stopped.
SPEAKER_02 (06:06):
Uh, I don't think they have it at this time of the
year.
SPEAKER_03 (06:08):
Yeah, so well, you know, if you can bring a bottle
of wine to Christmas.
Uh, it's a it's a it's a greatgift.
So go to ReckySyncellars.com,use code based at checkout for
10% off.
Thank you.
All right, so to the show.
Yeah, so I was I I watched itlast night, and after watching
it, I I thought it was great.
And I shot a tweet out and I waslike, hey, um, latest Netflix
(06:32):
knives out uh is a reallyinteresting show.
It's like it depicts twopriests.
Um, and I thought by the end ofit, it showed it was like it was
like a really well done moviewho would that that showed
repentance and grace and meaningand suffering.
Like I thought it was reallywell done.
(06:54):
So I tweeted that out, and MattMarsden wrote back to me saying
that I thought it was a horriblecliche caricature of Catholics.
And I felt like I was like, arewe watching different movies?
So I I asked Rob to watch ittoday to just kind of give me
his feedback, and I figured we'dwe'd talk about it here.
So, what was your are you do youlean more towards my end or
Marsden?
SPEAKER_02 (07:15):
So um I started watching it, and I've I've not
seen the two previous Knives Outmovies.
So when you said there was a newKnives Out movie out, I'm like,
I don't even know what you'retalking about.
But um, so I started watchingit, and um it's probably 20-30
minutes into the sh the movie.
I I tell my wife, I I say, youknow, to hope I'm like, I don't
know why Anthony has me watchthese stupid movies.
(07:37):
Like him and I clearly have verydifferent taste.
Um but then it was probably it'sit's a longer movie than you'd
think.
You know, it was getting to whatI felt was gonna be towards the
end, and I looked and it washalfway through, yeah, and I'm
like, this is actually gettinggood.
I want to watch the rest of thismovie, and um and by the end,
(08:00):
yeah, it was um uh I you know,so I know Rian Johnson directed
it, right?
SPEAKER_03 (08:09):
Um, I don't know who else was involved in it, but I
really do feel like there wassomeone involved in it that was
that that is deeply Catholic,deeply Catholic and like knows
the Catholic world because Robtexts me before the before the
movie, and he goes, dude, thisis Father Altman.
Like the so all right, so thethe movie basically we we'll try
(08:30):
not to destroy the plot if youguys haven't seen it yet.
Because it's a murder mystery,like we can't yeah, and it's a
yeah, we won't we won't spoilthe movie on you, but we'll give
you like the general plot.
SPEAKER_02 (08:40):
It's a it's not like I confess where we're talking
about a murder mystery moviefrom 60 years ago.
SPEAKER_03 (08:44):
Yeah, it's brand new, so people might not have
seen it yet.
But like initial impressions,like the main the main character
of the movie is a guy who is aboxer, and he becomes a priest
after he kills someone in theboxing ring, right?
So, this is a guy who who isfight is he's a boxer, he kills
someone in the boxing ring, andhe feels in his heart that like
(09:09):
he kind of knew what he wasdoing, and he had hatred in his
heart.
SPEAKER_02 (09:13):
He maybe didn't intend to kill the guy, you
know, so there was no criminalcase, but he had hatred in his
heart for him, so he does feellike it was morally murder,
yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (09:24):
So, and but he doesn't he the the way his
character develops, it's like hefinds this freedom in Christ,
and he and that and that isportrayed throughout the movie.
Now, the other character, theprotagonist would that be the
protagonist, I guess.
SPEAKER_02 (09:38):
Yeah, played by uh no, the antagonist.
SPEAKER_03 (09:40):
Played by Josh Brolin, right?
Yeah, sure play played by JoshBrolin.
This guy is modeled after FatherAltman.
I would not be surprised if likeI'm I'm pretty sure they they
actually just did a personal.
Some of the mannerisms, some ofthe uh supposed advice is um the
(10:03):
thing is like part of like thethe part of the father well
Monsignor Wicks is the guy'sname in the movie.
Something he does is he'sintentionally provocative to try
and get people to walk out.
Yeah, and I the first time I sawFather Altman was at the
canceled priest conference, andI walked out during his talk.
(10:26):
Like, that's how I was likeoffended by the things he was
saying, and I was just like, Ican't even be in here for the
and I walked out.
It it felt very much like that,where it was intentionally
fiery.
And look, this and and there aretrue things that this Monsignor
Wix says.
Like, don't get me wrong.
SPEAKER_02 (10:43):
There are like the whoever that this movie really
did capture.
I mean, uh not the oh the entirecrisis in the church, but it
really did capture kind of thewar against modernism, right?
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:56):
So the so they so this this Monsignor Wix is
talking about like all thethings the church is facing, the
Marxists and uh this and thethat, and you know, all all the
things that the church isactually facing.
So you want to side with him,but he is a villain, and and he
has like rottenness in hisheart.
(11:17):
Now, the the the protagonist ofthe film, Father Judd, seems
like he's very much modeledafter a father Mike Schmidt's.
SPEAKER_02 (11:26):
Very much so, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (11:28):
Which, you know, I people might have criticism of
Father Mike Schmitz, but youcould tell the man has a deep
love for Christ.
Like he just does.
Father Mike has a very deep lovefor Christ, and this priest in
this movie does also.
Like, he's there's there's somany things that that uh come up
where it it starts off like theopening scene in the movie is he
(11:49):
punches a deacon in the face,you know, and when he's when
he's being disciplined by his umby the eclipse, yeah, by his
bishop.
First off, the none of thepriests are f effeminate in this
movie.
No, they're all very masculine,including the bishop.
The bishop is like, yeah, youknow, that guy kind of deserves
a punch in the face.
SPEAKER_02 (12:07):
Like the bishop is is played by the the black guy
from Westworld, right?
SPEAKER_03 (12:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sorry, so none of the priestsare effeminate in it.
Um there are there are somecaricatures that you know would
make Catholics maybe look likethey're you know a bit over the
top or and stuff like that, butI didn't none of that bothered
(12:33):
me because of none of it feltuntrue or forced, you know, or
derogatory towards Catholics atall.
Yeah, and you know, yeah, andthen and there's one scene where
the the the lead detective, hisname is Blanc, he he meets the
priest for the first time, thegood priest, the good priest,
(12:56):
and uh Father Judd asks Blancwhat he feels like how how do
you feel about the church thatwe're in?
And Blanc goes in this longdiatribe about you know the
church and its homophobia andall this.
It does like the typical liberalbashing of the church, but then
kind of gets into how his motherwas overly religious, and that
(13:20):
like you could kind of see hishangups come, and the excuses he
makes for why he isn't religiousare basically like um it's cope.
Yeah, it's it's a lot of cope,and it's a lot of a lot of stuff
you would see in in youreveryday life of the
justifications people make forwhy they have left the church or
(13:43):
no longer attend the sacraments,things like that.
It's a it's very much somethingyou would hear somebody say.
So it's even in his criticismsof the church, you're like,
Yeah, I've seen this guy, youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (13:56):
Like he doesn't go as far as saying, you know,
pulling out the reddit tier likesky daddy stuff, but it almost
gets to that uh point, and andyou can tell he's he's wrapping
his his uh sorry guys.
Yeah, he's a little thing.
Maybe maybe his his ownmoralities he's wrapping his
(14:18):
insecurities with his mother andhis upbringing in like this
whole you know new atheistrationality sort of cope.
SPEAKER_03 (14:26):
And then I think the movie makes it actually really
obvious, very obvious, and thenFather Judd's response to him
because he's like the thesestories, and you know, these
stories they try to enraptureyou, and I'm facing I'm facing
this story, and and FatherJudd's response is like, Yeah,
it yeah, it is a story.
Um, including the religious garbthat we wear, including the
(14:47):
rituals that we do there,they're all story, and that's
kind of how man perceives theworld is through story.
And the idea the the thing is wehave to really consider does the
story hint at a deeper moraltruth and a deeper real truth
that gets to the depth of who weare, and like he goes through
this long explanation, and thenall of a sudden, um Father Judge
(15:10):
starts to get like emotional.
And Blanc is like, What whatwhat's going on?
What's going on?
He's like, I just I kind of feltlike a priest for a moment
because the the priest is theone being accused of of the
murder that takes place in theshow, and he got the good
priest, the good priest, the badpriest is murdered, the good
priest is accused of it, and heand the way he gets overwhelmed
(15:32):
in giving his explanation, itwas it was a very good um it was
a very good catechesis momentthat he gives about it.
Sound sounded like something Iwould say, and then he gets
overwhelmed.
It also sounded exactly likeFather Mike, right?
Talks in Bible in the year.
And when he gets overwhelmed,though, I'm I'm like, that
(15:54):
that's kind of like it made methink of why we even started
doing this show, and a lot of ithad to do with because I uh what
is she what is she texting me?
Oh sorry.
Um like why we started doingthis show is because I always
(16:17):
had anytime I would bediscussing the faith, I would
feel alive.
Like I it was it was a it wassomething about my in my
conversations in everyday life.
The time I felt the most aliveis when I was talking about God
to people, and I saw that inthis priest where he he's
discussing the faith and thechurch because he's explaining
(16:39):
the church.
He's like that, you know, thethe story this church is telling
it's kind of weird because it'snot even a middle-aged church,
it's really a 19th-century umneo-gothic.
Yeah, it's like a neo-gothicchurch.
He's like, but it's stilltelling a story.
He's like, But these storiesresonate with us, and it sounded
like some like something I wouldsay, and that I would feel like
my heart jumping as I wastelling it to whoever I was
(17:02):
telling it to, and then he hasthat moment.
I I I just thought it was reallywell done.
Um, I do have a statue of OurLady I could put behind me.
That might be a good idea.
Um, so yeah, so overall, youknow, there are going to be
things that people can becritical of.
Like Matthew Marsden's critiquewas he's like, you know, that it
was just a stereotypical badpriest calling his mother the
(17:24):
harlot whore.
And I'm like, that that's whatgot you.
SPEAKER_02 (17:28):
I mean, like, I've never heard that stereotype, to
be honest.
SPEAKER_03 (17:34):
I don't know, I don't know what he was getting
at.
I but the end the way the movieends is very well done um in
showing how repentance and likelike true healing comes through
repentance and finding meaningin your suffering.
There's there's two stories thatkind of end in the movie where
(17:57):
these two themes come to life.
So for anybody that does want towatch the movie, it's not you
know, I mean it's a it's a it'sa secular movie.
Uh it just I thought that thethemes were very well done, and
I thought that in the end, itreally brought home this idea of
repentance actually leads totrue freedom, and that you find
(18:20):
your meaning and your miraclethrough suffering, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:25):
Um, um, one little uh Easter egg that I saw that I
thought was pretty funny was atone point there, um, the
detective played by Daniel Craigis in uh Father Judd's room, and
uh you see on the floor um acopy of uh Bishop Schneider's uh
Krato.
SPEAKER_03 (18:44):
How Rob he goes, did you see the did you see the the
copy of Krato in in the set?
I was like, I did not even seeit.
SPEAKER_02 (18:50):
And it's clearly visible.
SPEAKER_03 (18:52):
You can read Krato on it, and if you have it, you
know exactly what it is, whichis what makes me think whoever
was on this set was either theythey had traditional Catholics
on this set, giving insight intoprobably Monsignor Wick's
character, yeah, right?
This fiery traditional priestwho's preaching hell and
(19:14):
brimstone and uh tradition, umnot traditional and liturgy,
right?
Not liturgical, no.
It definitely wasn'tliturgically traditional, but
it's this fire and brimstonepreaching, and but that Easter
egg is an Easter egg.
So whoever whoever was on setclearly put that.
SPEAKER_02 (19:32):
I mean, it's not it's not like it's the only
other books they that arerecognizable in the the the
movie are the ones that uhDaniel Craig's detective
character, you know, they'relike old murder mysteries that
he reads out of to figure outthe mystery.
Other than those, this is theonly book that's clearly
visible.
So it was interesting.
SPEAKER_03 (19:51):
Yeah, it was just I look, it was an interesting
movie.
I thought it came home, and inthe end, it showed a Christ
figure for the priest.
A guy and it also showed howgreed and the love of money can
destroy a person.
Money, money, greed, and powercan really destroy a person.
SPEAKER_02 (20:12):
And there's and actually with the with now that
I think about it, all the um allof the prisoners there had some
sort of predominant fault,right?
That really ended up destroyingalmost all of them.
None of them really uh make itout uh virtuously, you know.
So that that was interestingtoo.
SPEAKER_03 (20:32):
Except the one the the girl with the cello.
SPEAKER_02 (20:36):
True, that yeah, that yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_03 (20:38):
That that was that one was really important to
catch, also, because uh that wasthe one that kind of like the
meaning through suffering one.
So um yeah, there's also likethis this whole theme of of uh
don't don't search for Eve'sapple now.
(21:01):
Christ is your redemption,Christ is your inheritance now.
Like the this whole theme of ofof Eve's apple, like don't go
and and bite the apple nowbecause Christ, your
inheritance, is here now.
That is your that is yourinheritance.
SPEAKER_02 (21:17):
Even in the end, um Eve's apple, which we we're not
gonna say what it is, not thatit's a big secret, but Eve's
apple ends up, which which isthe source of so much evil in
the show, is almost umtypologically, it's like
redeemed in in the crucifiedChrist, right?
Yeah, because that's where itends up being placed in this
(21:38):
this this crucifix that hebuilds himself for the church
ends up containing Eve's applein it.
SPEAKER_03 (21:44):
Yeah, there's there's some some good typology
in that that I enjoyed.
So um, yeah, we figured we wouldjump on, just do a quick
20-minute, 25-minute summationof the movie.
Because I think if because acouple of people that saw it
responded to me and said, I madeit through 30 minutes and I
turned it off.
And that was Rob's instinct,too.
(22:04):
He's like, he's like, I don'tknow what you know, why is
Anthony even making me watchthis?
But if you finish the movie out,especially after you get to to
the halfway mark, you'll startseeing these themes popping up,
and especially in the the mainfather Judd, like the things
that he's getting at, and he'sconstantly trying to bring
(22:25):
people to to healing throughChrist.
And I I mean, I I thought it wasvery well done.
Uh, you know, it's clearly asecular movie, so I'm not going
to act like it's you know thethe the the sequel to passion or
anything, you know.
But I think if uh no, you'regoing to get a full show because
we're gonna go to locals next.
SPEAKER_02 (22:44):
So we're gonna kind of keep this one short because
we figure people that watchmovie reviews don't want to
watch an hour-long movie review,but we are going to and it'd be
weird if like you know, 25minutes into a movie review
suddenly became about you knowthe Jewish question, it just no.
SPEAKER_03 (23:00):
So, what we're going to do over on locals, we're
gonna discuss voice of reason,but there's also one clip of the
movie I want to play, and that'sthe that's the scene we just
discussed before with whereBlunk meets um Father Judd.
So we're going to go over tolocals.
If we play it over here, we'llget a copyright strike and
they'll kill the stream on us.
So if if we go over to locals,we can play that clip, and then
(23:21):
I want to discuss Alex for voiceof a reason his him him thinking
he's coming back because hekeeps pretending he's oh, I'm
listening to my spiritualfathers, but it's just this this
this is appalling, in myopinion.
And then uh Rob's got aninteresting story of a woman who
wanted her daughter to be uh analtar server, and the priest
(23:46):
said no.
SPEAKER_02 (23:48):
Um there's an interesting comment on locals,
actually.
Um, so uh they say apparentlyRyan Johnson made the film to
grapple with his upbringing andevangelicalism, but chose
Catholicism for the film becauseof aesthetics, saying that the
most of the churches he went togrowing up were like pottery
barns.
Apparently, he did talk to atable full of priests in Denver,
(24:11):
and Father Scott Bailey was thetechnical consultant for the
script.
SPEAKER_03 (24:15):
Think about it.
I forgot to even bring that up.
I'm so glad that comment was inthere because that's the first
thing I thought is people.
If you want to depictChristianity properly, you need
to do it with Catholicism.
You cannot do it withProtestantism.
No, that movie would not haveworked, it would not have
(24:35):
worked.
You needed it to be these twopriests, you needed to have the
sacrament of reconciliation,like you needed to have the
sacrament of reconciliation atthe end.
You needed redemptive suffering.
The none Protestantism doesn'toffer any of what these themes
grapple with in the movie, ithad to be done the way it was
(24:56):
done, and that's all I wasthinking throughout the movie is
this only works if it's Catholicpriests that you're talking
about.
SPEAKER_02 (25:03):
Um all you get with Protestantism is God's not dead,
one, two, and three.
That's it, right?
SPEAKER_03 (25:09):
So, in an interesting way, all of the like
the best tools for evangelismare always going to be through
Catholicism because you'reyou're playing with these themes
that Protestantism nevertouches.
And and like actual red, thisisn't like oh, oh, well, I've
been saved though, right?
No, you're dealing with peoplewho are Christian and grappling
(25:30):
with redemption in their ownlives.
It's it's a really it's a reallygood, uh, a really uh it's every
movie that has to deal with thisstuff.
If you want to do demonicpossession, you have to use
Catholicism.
If you want any of these things,you need the aesthetics, not
just the aesthetics, but thetheology of Catholicism.
Yeah, it doesn't work withoutour theology.
(25:52):
Um, so uh yeah, all right.
So we're going to jump over tolocals to uh let's see.
Um I'm sorry, uh Christian Mariojust texted me.
Um all right, so we're going togo love you, Rob, love you,
(26:14):
Anthony, love you, chat.
There you go.
Um, so we're gonna go over tolocals.
We're gonna discuss uh we'regonna play a clip from the movie
that I definitely want to umthat I definitely want to uh
show.
And then we're gonna discussvoice of reason.
And I want to discuss that umthat woman who wanted her
daughter to be an altar serverbecause it kind of just shows
you the um the mindset of womenwho push their kids to do things
(26:39):
that they don't even want to do,but they're activists and they
can't help themselves.
SPEAKER_02 (26:44):
So that's what we're gonna do over there.
For the record, we're notnecessarily recommending the
movie, especially to like otherlike faithful Catholics.
It's a secular secular movie.
SPEAKER_03 (26:56):
It's just I'm trying to pull the good out of it,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (27:00):
Especially because when uh secular people go and
see it, they might havequestions about Catholicism for
you.
SPEAKER_03 (27:07):
You know, you know, it's not something I would man.
I don't know if I I I would sayI shouldn't recommend it though.
Like I I don't know.
I uh I mean there's definitelysome is there blasphemy in it?
Um I didn't pick up on it.
SPEAKER_02 (27:24):
I'm sure the only part I remember in there was one
time when uh Martha scaresFather Judd and he jumps.
SPEAKER_03 (27:32):
Oh, and he takes the Lord's name in vain, right?
SPEAKER_02 (27:35):
Um there's probably more, but it wasn't so egregious
where it stuck out to me.
SPEAKER_03 (27:42):
No, and there wasn't foul language.
So somebody's asking, is itteenager appropriate?
Yeah, I would say it is.
SPEAKER_02 (27:47):
Yeah, and there was no nudity.
There was the the uh MonsignorWick's mother is dressed
somewhat scandalously, at leastbefore that.
SPEAKER_03 (27:57):
In confession, confesses uh he does confess,
yeah.
He can he confesses sins of theflesh in confession, but it's
he's it's it's a bit of a vulgarconversation, but um that's
about it.
Yeah, I would say, yeah, thosethose are the warnings.
Um, yeah, this the yeah, that II would say that's probably the
(28:21):
the hardest part to sit throughis the vulgar confession, but at
the same time, he's trying to dosomething with that, like he's
trying to there's a plot pointthere, yeah.
There's a plot point to it, he'strying to shock the priest and
scare him off or something likethat.
So it's like um it's not andlike it, it's he kind of just
(28:41):
says our lord's name real quick.
He doesn't say it, he doesn'tsay GD or anything.
SPEAKER_02 (28:46):
Like, I don't remember any GDs in it.
SPEAKER_03 (28:48):
No, I don't think there was.
I he just says our Lord's namereal quick, and it's not even
like JC, where he uses itvulgarly.
He's just like he's jump scaredand he it was our Lord's name,
right?
Yeah, it was uh yeah, so um it'sdefinitely less vulgar than uh
father um what was that moviewith Marky Mark and Mel Gibson?
SPEAKER_02 (29:10):
Well, it's probably less vul vulgar than Father
Altman's sermons, yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (29:15):
Less vulgar than Father Altman's sermons.
SPEAKER_02 (29:17):
Um Father Stew, yeah.
Father Stewart's way, waybetter.
Honestly, it's a it's a bettermovie morally than Father Stew.
I think so.
SPEAKER_03 (29:26):
100 better than Father Stew, uh, because it's
way less vulgar than FatherStew.
And I father stew, you'rewatching this whole vulgar movie
for one payoff speech at theend.
SPEAKER_02 (29:38):
Yeah, that's essentially it.
SPEAKER_03 (29:40):
You watched this movie.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
And it was very shallow.
Like, I'm not gonna say shallow,but I'm it the message was right
there on the surface.
Whereas I mean, maybe maybewe're reading into this movie
more than we should, but uh, Ithere's some I think there's
some deep stuff here.
SPEAKER_03 (29:55):
I do too.
I like that's that's the that'show I came away thinking about
it.
And my wife was kind of like inand out in the first half hour.
She's like, I don't know if I'mgonna watch the same same as
you, but then once it gets intothose deeper themes and
conversations, I was like, Thisthis is some good stuff here,
like this might actually sparksomeone's heart if they're
paying attention.
(30:16):
Yeah, like I don't know.
I I think it could.
I don't know.
So we'll see.
Um, all right.
So we're gonna head over tolocals.
If you guys can, please join usover there.
It's gonna be uh uhcontinuation.
So we're doing early today,Thursday.
We're going to be on with MikeChurch.
SPEAKER_02 (30:34):
So um that'll be going to be an interesting
subject.
So this is a show where um theyjust he picks a subject, not
church related, and just has adiscussion with it on that
subject with a few guys.
I think this subject is about uhChristmas movies.
Oh, which is like Anthony'sspecialty, he'll he'll ruin
(30:56):
everyone's day.
SPEAKER_03 (30:58):
I'm I'm wondering if I should play the troll up of
pretending I don't like it's awonderful life.
I don't actually dislike thatmovie, it just makes everybody
so mad.
Where was I I don't think I'veever watched it.
I think I've tried watching ittwice and I fell asleep, but
I've never actually watched It'sa Wonderful Life.
(31:21):
Uh that one and Johnny Cash.
If you if you if you say JohnnyCash things, people lose their
minds.
Um, so all right, so we're gonnahead over to to locals.
Uh but yeah, so we'll be oh allright, we'll be on we on Mike
Church at 7 p.m.
Eastern.
Hope we're hoping that runsabout an hour, and then we may
just come over and do a localshow on our channel.
SPEAKER_02 (31:40):
We'll see how that goes.
SPEAKER_03 (31:42):
Yeah, we'll probably just do a local show on our
channel.
So if you guys are localsmembers, just pay attention to
that.
We'll we'll probably just jumpon from uh my church right over
to our locals, and we'll do anhour over on locals, and uh
that'll be a Thursday show, andthat'll be our our out before
Christmas.
SPEAKER_02 (31:58):
No, we'll have Tuesday.
No, we'll have Tuesday.
Okay, and then maybe we'll do uhno.
Uh is it Friday or Saturday?
We're on with the Catholicunscripted next week.
SPEAKER_03 (32:06):
Uh Saturday, I think we're on with Catholic Scripted
uh Catholic Unscripted.
I don't know if we're doing thaton our channel or theirs.
SPEAKER_02 (32:12):
We haven't up here either.
SPEAKER_03 (32:14):
Yeah, we haven't really hammered that out yet.
If it's on ours, maybe we'lljust go live.
Yeah, we'll go live and thenwe'll yeah, we'll figure that
out.
I don't know.
That's that's next week.
So all right, guys, we'll see.
Oh, I have a question.
If someone isn't able to takecommunion, should they be going
up to get a blessing during theTLM?
SPEAKER_02 (32:33):
I would say there's no reason to.
You definitely can, but it's thesame blessing everyone receives
at the end of Mass.
SPEAKER_03 (32:41):
Um the the mass we went to in Banff, Canada, the
priest, um the priest beforecommunion, uh like gave a whole
little uh like talk about likemaking sure that like those of
you who are because it was a wehad to go to a novel soda, it
was the only thing we had.
There's no Latin there.
(33:03):
I wasn't I I still don't thinkyou you have a you I don't I
still don't think I could missmy Sunday obligation.
So anyway, the the priest waslike gave a whole talk about
before communion about makingsure you can consume the host
immediately if you're receivingon the hand.
Uh and he said, if you have achild who hasn't yet made their
communion, just tell them tocome up with their arms crossed
(33:24):
and I'll give them a blessing.
But that's a novice order,that's not a Latin.
SPEAKER_02 (33:27):
And Mrs.
Casey's right, uh diocesanparishes, like when I go up with
my, you know, with kids tocommunion, just because there's
no way I'm leaving those threewildlings behind as we go up for
communion.
Um, the diocesan priest doesgive them a blessing, but uh the
trad trad orders probably won't.
SPEAKER_03 (33:45):
I don't know.
Before my daughter made hercommunion, I at the SSPX chapel
we went up to receive, and theand father gave my daughter a
blessing at the SSPX.
So I don't know if that's like astandard rule.
I guess that would be priest,maybe priest dependent, you
know.
Like she came up, I was holdingher, and he gave me communion,
he just made the sign of thecross on her head and gave her a
(34:07):
blessing.
So I don't know if it's like Idon't know if somebody else went
up there like this.
He was, you know, that's that'sinappropriate.
You're kneeling at the communionrail, could could lead to
confusion.
So I would say no.
Yeah, for sure.
Um, Catholic Unscripted saidthey they want to talk to us
about Fuentas.
That's interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (34:24):
Where where did you see that?
SPEAKER_03 (34:26):
Uh in the locals chat.
Oh, they're in the locals chatright now.
No, no, no.
Uh Nikki Vu said I heardCatholic Unscripted saying
they're going to ask you aboutFuentas.
Okay, sounds good.
Um, all right, guys, we'll seeyou on the other side.
Come and join us on locals.
If you're not already a localmember, that's the best way to
support us.
SPEAKER_02 (34:43):
Let me let me post it in the chat here, real quick.
And pin it.
So if you're in the chat rightnow, just click on that link to
head over.
And uh, I'm gonna just startcutting uh streams off here.
We'll start with Facebook.
SPEAKER_03 (34:58):
Somebody's asking what we thought of the Fuentes
and Piers Morgan thing.
Watch it was one of the funniestinterviews I've ever seen.
SPEAKER_02 (35:08):
For some reason, this didn't go out on your
Twitter today.
I would have swore I clicked it,but whatever.
SPEAKER_03 (35:15):
Uh recently renewed my local support for a third
year, and this is the first timeI.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.