Babylon's Fall: Preparing for the Collapse with Theo Howard

Want to reach out to us? Want to leave a comment or review? Want to give us a suggestion or berate Anthony? Send us a text by clicking this link!

Civilization stands at a precipice. The signs are unmistakable – devalued currency, collapsing birthrates, cultural decay, and the fading remnants of once-Christian institutions. But what does this mean for faithful Catholics trying to navigate these turbulent times?

Theo Howard of the Two Cities podcast joins us for a profound conversation about the coming collapse of Western civilization and the Catholic response. Rather than another doomer analysis, this discussion offers a roadmap for hope and renewal through what Howard calls "the Little Way of Christendom" – building parallel structures that can weather the storm while preserving authentic faith.

We explore how the modern world isn't merely post-Christian but apostate – having received divine grace and deliberately rejected it – making our sins far more grievous than those of pre-Christian pagans. Howard compellingly argues that we're living through the Passion of the Church, a mysterious parallel to Christ's own suffering that will ultimately lead to resurrection.

The conversation takes us through the failures of political solutions, including the false promise of electoral politics that functions as a "counterfeit liturgical calendar," distracting Catholics from living according to the Church's authentic rhythms. We examine how COVID served as a warning and test of faith, separating those willing to sacrifice for principle from those who surrendered for convenience.

Most importantly, we discuss practical steps for building resilient Catholic communities – from agriculture to education to economic networks – that can function outside corrupted systems. This isn't about withdrawal but about creating the seeds of a renewed Christendom that will flourish after the inevitable chastisement runs its course.

For anyone concerned about the future of faith and civilization, this conversation offers not just analysis but a genuinely Catholic path forward. Listen now and discover how small, faithful communities built on tradition can become the foundation for rebirth in a post-collapse world.

Support the show

Sponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/

********************************************************

Please subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKsxnv80ByFV4OGvt_kImjQ?sub_confirmation=1

https://www.avoidingbabylon.com

Locals Community: https://avoidingbabylon.locals.com

RSS Feed for Podcast Apps: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/1987412.rss

Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/AvoidingBabylon

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:37):
SANTE, sante, amare, morti DE CADAS, NUS In tes
peraveros.
Zones never work out.
We always have to plan these oneither Saturday mornings or, if
I get like a bank holiday inAmerica where I'll have the day
off, we're able to set it uplike that.
But before we even get intowhat I want to talk about, I
want to at least let people knowwho you are.

(00:58):
How did you get into speakingon some of the topics you do
publicly?
Are you a cradle Catholic?
Give everybody a little bit ofa synopsis of who you are and
how you started taking yourfaith a little more seriously.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Sure, well, thank you very much, gents, for having me
.
As you say, it's been a longtime, I think.
We've been interacting onTwitter and now we're speaking
live, which is very nice.
I was saying just before wewent live that Avoiding Babylon
reminds me of the sessions thatI enjoy with my Catholic friends
in pubs here in England, soit's quite nice to be in a

(01:30):
virtual pub, so to speak, at 2pmon a Saturday afternoon.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
It's a very good compliment, by the way.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Thank you Sorry, I said that's a very good
compliment by the way, thank youdropped a little bit there, um,
and I've yeah, I've reallyenjoyed a lot of your content.
Um, I have been producingonline commentary from my

(02:00):
channel formerly vonda radio,now retitled the Two Cities
podcast since last year, foraround six years, so I think my
first video was in 2018 with theesteemed Dr E Michael Jones, a
great Catholic American titanover there.

(02:20):
I know we have wetraditionalist Catholics have,
you know, some prettysubstantive disagreements with
Dr Jones, but I do think that heis an incredibly erudite and
perceptive thinker and I verymuch respect his willingness to
talk to anybody and he reallydoes follow his own ethos of

(02:44):
logos there, of of rationalspeech with with any
interlocutor that he'll speakwith, including, uh, little
micro channels, little homespunmicro channels like bondi radio
back in 2018, and, in fact, ourfirst conversation was about
partly, uh, rod dreyer'sbenedict option, which shows how

(03:05):
sort of these things come fullcircle, something that uh
influenced my, my recent essayat the little way of christendom
and when I, when I started mychannel, I was actually working
full-time for a majorarchdiocese here in England and

(03:28):
this followed my reversion.
I am a cradle Catholic, but myparents separated when I was
young, and then I grew up in theNovus Ordo, attended Sunday
school, all of the youthministry and the formation I

(03:48):
hesitate to use that word toostrongly but the life of the
parish.
And you know, I got to the ageof 17, 18, that sort of pivotal
age, and I thought Grace was agirl's name.
I didn't know what redemptivesuffering was.
I didn't even know that to, to,to eat and drink uh of the body

(04:14):
and blood of christ in a stateof mortal sin, is to eat and
drink your own damnation, thesevery typical um emissions which
which I think are purposefullyuh obscured by by much of the
novus ordo structure, and sothat that um meant that I was
very uh, inadequately preparedfor the, the hissing uh cauldron

(04:36):
of of illicit, uh illicit lusts, as saint augustine talked
about Carthage, and I'mreferring to university and all
the corruptions there.
So, yes, I came back to thefaith at about the age of 23
when the full ramifications ofmy sins were visited upon me,

(05:01):
and at that point I then startedgetting into catechesis, and
then that led to a job at thediocese, and so in this, this
diocese in England, I was, I wasworking as the evangelization
coordinator.
So I sort of, really, I supposemy my initial immersion in the
church's mission today was wasvery much informed by the new

(05:24):
evangelization and, uh, workingfor the church I mean I I won't
go into now, but it was working.
Working within the darsonstructure is was both an
incredibly frustratingexperience in how sick uh the
the church is and uh, the humanelements of the church, um, but

(05:44):
also incredibly edifying inhaving contact with other
Catholics trying to do some goodwithin the system.
One of my colleagues wasSebastian Morello, who you might
have come across, dr SebastianMorello, and we had a sort of
kind of traddy, underground, youknow, guerrilla network within

(06:04):
the diocesan structure where wetried to do what we could, and I
ended up leaving that job in2020.
So I think the same year youstarted your podcast and, of
course, covid was such a such acataconic event in, for sure,
unveiling the malevolence of thesecular power structure which
is I was always aware of.
And, yes, so I started mypodcast because I wanted to ask

(06:31):
Dr E Michael Jones somequestions and I thought, well,
other people might be interestedin hearing the answers as well.
So why don't I just record iton some very substandard audio
equipment?
And people did seem toappreciate it, despite the
quality of the audio, and I justwent from there, so it was an

(06:53):
organic venture.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Those early days when you first start the show and
you don't know the technicalthings that you're supposed to
do and you're nervous, right.
I remember being so nervousthose first bunch of shows and
just when I would do aninterview I'd be sweating
because I didn't know how Iwould handle it and stuff.
And it's funny how you kind ofjust get into your groove the

(07:17):
more you do it and you kind ofget comfortable behind the mic
and then now it's, you know, nomatter who I have on, I'm pretty
comfortable in my skin andstuff but um I I, yeah, well, I
actually found doing it livegives me more comfort than
pre-recording because if I see,if I make a mistake, I don't
feel like I have to edit it out.

(07:38):
If I, if I do a pre-record, Ifeel like it has to be very
polished and and where, if we doit live, making a mistake or
two, we kind of play.
There's a comedic element to mymistakes and stuff.
So I I'm I'm actually a littlemore at ease at the live element
.
But yeah, when we started, whenI started the channel, it was
because I was being told at myjob, if I didn't get the, the

(08:02):
jab, I was going to lose.
I was going to lose my job andthe first video I put out was
okay.
We all have to be willing towalk away from anything to avoid
this thing and I wanted to justgive other people a little
inspiration.
I mean, I've been at my job.
At that point I was there forlike 17 years or so and I said I

(08:23):
will.
If I have to sell my home and Ihave to go live in the wood
somewhere, that's what I'll do.
And I was trying to inspireother people.
And I named the channelAvoiding Babylon because I saw
COVID as this system coming inand I'm thinking in my head we
just need to avoid this systemin any way we can.
And then when I heard well,actually, I I read your article

(08:48):
in one, peter five first, but Iactually enjoyed it more when
you put it out on your YouTubechannel, just the audio version,
because I hearing yourinflections and the things that
you were saying resonated reallywell with me.
If you guys haven't seen it, goto the two cities podcast,
subscribe to it and just checkout.
He's got a.
It's a 22, 23 minute videocalled the little way of
Christendom, and I felt likeeverything you were saying was

(09:12):
all the things I had been justbrewing up in my head, a couple
of uh.
I'll say this as the 2020election was coming along, I
started falling for the like,getting caught up in the, in the
excitement of of Trump comingin and, uh, I thought maybe

(09:35):
something will change with thiselection.
You know, and I and I gotcaught up in in in all the
fervor around getting Trumpelected and it took probably a
month after he got into officewhere I realized how silly that
thought was and how duped I wasand I felt stupid for it because
I had this.

(09:56):
I saw when Elon came in and hestarted explaining where all of
our money was going to.
All like the way the frivolousway America spent money in
foreign countries to overthrowtheir governments under the
guise of NGOs and things likethat.
Now, the first bill that comes,the first budget bill that
comes before Trump's like before, while Trump is in office the

(10:21):
first budget that gets passed,none of that stuff gets cut out.
And I just saw it and I saidthis country it doesn't matter
who's president, it doesn'tmatter who we elect, none of it
matters Nobody has any concernfor actually saving our country.
Our country is on thisprecipice of just dropping off
and nobody actually cares.

(10:42):
Because they passed that budget,our country is still spending
money on the most insane,ridiculous things and I just saw
it as they are trying to drainthe empire of every last penny
they can.
Whoever is in positions of youknow this oligarchic system to
milk the system.
They will.
They'll pull every dollar theycan out of it.

(11:03):
The debauchery is going tocontinue and Trump is just
another continuation ofeverything we've seen before.
The war in Ukraine is stillgoing on, even though Trump said
he would end it on day one?
No, not only is it going on,it's escalating.
You're seeing things in theMiddle East escalating and it
feels like the story is comingto a crescendo, and the idea of

(11:25):
investing into that system tofix it just seems preposterous
to me.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah, I mean, I sympathize with your experience
and you know, back in 2015, 16,along with Brexit, here in
Britain, I was really energisedby these political, some degree
of the natural law and socialorder and a sense, that which,
which was purposefullyfrustrated Very much, much

(12:31):
sooner perhaps than than Trump'spresidency, or at least the,
the presentation of it to, tothe people.
And so you're quite right.
What what emerges is the thecyof the Washington consensus that

(12:51):
he is a servitor of empire.
There are prerogatives of anoligarchy, of a crypto oligarchy
which has this fig leaf ofdemocracy, which are followed by
oh, what did I hit?

Speaker 3 (13:06):
No, no, nothing, he's muted oh, you're muted, theo.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Hang on, let me.
Yeah, but did I?
Oh sorry?
Yeah, he's good now.
Okay, you're good now, theo.
Sorry you got muted there.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Please do say yes, it said my microphone came out, so
so there is, there is clearly aconsensus there, and that's
something that, of course, wasmade very, very stark and
explicit during COVID, whereboth sides of the liberal

(13:37):
political charade were embracingthe reality of a so-called
pandemic and supporting thisgrossly disproportionate
government response to a viruswith such minimal lethality, and

(13:57):
the structures for the coercionof the masses came much more
clearly into view.
So, alongside that, I thinkstudying history, being deep in
history, as Cardinal Newman said, is to cease to be Protestant.
It's also to cease to beliberal, because one can then
place this crypto oligarchy in ahistorical panorama and see

(14:20):
that actually this hostiletakeover of the political order
was affected before any of uswere born, and that sort of
takes the sting out of it alittle bit, I find, because
actually it's not reallyanything that we could do.
It's accelerated, it's deepenedsince, you know, over the

(14:40):
course of our lifetimes, butthis is an ongoing revolutionary
process, which is modernity andhas been attacking the church
and Christian civilization for500 years now, and there are not
going to be solutions fromwithin the framing of the

(15:04):
enemies of the church.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, it's always interesting to me when I hear
Protestants talk about the NewWorld Order and Freemasonry and
things like that.
I'm like you guys are the NewWorld Order.
The Protestant Reformation wasthe beginning of the New World
Order, because the Old WorldOrder was Christendom and it was
this unification of the secularand the religious and they

(15:27):
break that apart during theProtestant Reformation.
Then comes the Enlightenmentand it just where we are now,
because you talked about in youressay, like the four things
that actually are the biggestproblem we're facing today.
I know one of them was thedebasement of currency.
Expand on that a tiny bit,because I think that a lot of us

(15:52):
do still think there'ssomething salvageable about the
system and I think there can'tbe a resurrection without a
death and that, although we dosee these things collapsing and
everything falling apart aroundus, it is a good thing.
We should actually be happythat it is going to come to an
end, because nothing, somethingnew needs to come and there has

(16:12):
to be a death before we can dothat yeah, we're all deeply
aware that our cultures, oursocieties are defying the
natural law so flagrantly, in away that no other society or
civilization has in history.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
It really is worse than people talk about.
We're a neo-pagan civilization,we're in an apostate
civilization, which is muchworse because, following Lucifer
, we have received divine graceand then rejected it, which is
far worse, makes us far moreculpable.
Divine grace and then rejectedit, which is far worse, makes us
far more culpable I'm talkingabout us corporately, in our
political societies far worsethan having never been offered

(16:51):
that grace in the first place.
So it is cataclysmic.
And my contention in that essaywas that we are going to have
the the bill is going to comedue in our lifetime for this
process of apostasy, inmaterially speaking, spiritually
, of course it's, it's alwaysbeing visited upon us, but it's
going to.
It's going to be materiallyfelt by the secular masses, and

(17:16):
that's that's a good thing.
God has established thismarvelous system of cause and
effect.
You know where, if I touch ahot pan, I get burned straight
away and I learn not to touchhot pans.
And likewise, people makecommitments to live in states of
sin, and the disorder anddisintegration that results

(17:38):
should be a teaching moment forthem to repent and come to to
the truth.
And we need that corporately,we need that socially as a
civilization.
So people say you can't project,predict the future.
But actually, when it comes todemographics and finance, you
can.
Uh, because you you knowdemographics.
You know demographics aredestiny and we can see that with

(18:01):
the sexual revolution.
The oxidant is in a demographicdeath spiral and robots and
immigrants are not going toalleviate that.
There are various oligarchicinterests that are invested in
telling stories about those,about robots being able to save
us, but it's not going to work.
So we are going to have amaterial drop in standard of

(18:23):
living.
In fact we're already having it, actually, but it's going to
become much more precipitous.
So I use the example of theparadigmatic case of
civilizational collapse, thefall of the Western Roman Empire
, which really was driven byfour horsemen, four things
chronic currency debasement,barbarian inflows, fiscal and

(18:44):
demographic implosion, and thewest currently exhibits all four
of those horsemen.
So I think we're going to see aconcatenation of those, um, of
those, those trends, I would say, within the next sort of 10 to
20 years, which interestinglycoincides with 70 years since
the revolution that constitutedVatican II, and it's my

(19:06):
contention that we're living inthe passion of the church and
that that was typologicallyprefigured by the Babylonian
captivity of the Jews in the OldTestament, which traditionally
was for the duration of 70 years.
So I think both temporally andecclesiastically these things

(19:29):
are converging roughly around2000 years since our Lord's
crucifixion and death.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
It is interesting all how the timing is lining up.
Also, 2029 will be the 100-yearanniversary of when our Lord,
or Our Lady, asked for theconsecration of Russia.
That coincides in 2029.
But the thing is especiallywhen you're comparing it to the
collapse of the Roman empire.
As the Roman empire collapses,um, the church steps in and it

(19:59):
doesn't just become the Romanempire.
What it what it does is ittakes elements of the Roman
Empire and it picks up thepieces and Christianizes these
things.
So I think, even if we're goingthrough the Passion of the
Church, which I completely agreewith you on, the question is is
this the end or does somethingnew come afterward?

(20:22):
And is there this periodafterward where what the church
will have to do is pick up thepieces of this post-Christendom
world?
And it won't look like theChristianity that came about
after the fall of the Romanempire, but it will have
elements of the post-Christianworld we're in now and something
new will will come out of it,and it will.

(20:43):
It won't look like the originalchurch did, because I think a
lot of people want to always goback to try to reform what the
early church looked like.
It won't look like that.
We're in a post-Christian world.
There are elements of Rome.
There will always be elementsof Rome in the church, I think
but it's going to look a littlebit different than than it did

(21:04):
the first time, when the romanempire collapsed, but we are
coming to a collapse yeah, well,that's, that's the great
mystery, anthony, that peoplehave different perspectives on
and they try to.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
They try to synthesize, let's say, the
messages of our lady, of fatimaand of Akita, these warnings in
heaven's response to modernity.
It's interesting how Our Ladyhas such a central role in
heaven's response to modernity,this apostasy.
They try to synthesize thatwith what Holy Scripture says,

(21:39):
just says, about the eschatonand the end of the world.
And um, yeah, broadly two viewsand if, to be quite honest, I'm
I'm not entirely committed toone or the other um, but I'll
just outline them.
So the first is that we areactually um in apocalyptic times
and that the coming theantichrist is is quite soon.

(22:00):
That really we should firstlylook to Holy Scripture, of
course, to public revelation, tothe deposit of faith to
interpret the signs of the times, and that there are many
apocalyptic signs theingathering of the Jews to
Israel in 1967, the Six-Day War,when Israel took the Jews, took

(22:21):
control of Jerusalem, which, asour Lord said, will happen when
the time of the Gentiles comesto an end, which also coincides
with the sexual revolution,which is basically the suicide
of the Gentile nations, as wediscussed.
So that was incrediblyapocalyptic.
Father Thomas Queen has aninteresting Twitter thread on
this where he cites severalsigns of the times the

(22:48):
re-establishment of the Jewishstate in Israel, as well as the
public celebration of sodomy,which St Thomas Aquinas, in his
commentary on 2 Thessalonians,said would characterize the end
times, because it doesn't getany worse than that.
Yeah, with regard to to sin,public celebration of sin and

(23:12):
offenses against almighty God,and then also the abortion
slaughter as well.
Our Lord says that the end oftimes, men's hearts will grow
cold Slaughter as well.
Our Lord says that the end oftimes, men's hearts will grow
cold.
How cold are men's and women'shearts to murder en masse the
most innocent?
So there are these signs thatthere is, arguably there has

(23:40):
been the falling away of thenations, the great apostasy.
That's what we've seen with thedissolution of christendom.
So so there's that timeline,which has compelling arguments
to it, but then also there'sthis notion of the triumph of
the immaculate heart and the thereign of mary.
Where does that fit into thiseschatological timeline?
And I think that if we'retalking about the church

(24:02):
reliving the life of our Lordmystically, then a passion would
be followed by a resurrection,of course, which may coincide
with this triumph of theImmaculate Heart and of course
it's not a dogma, but it'scertainly a pious belief that
the first witness of theresurrection was Our Lady, which

(24:24):
is utterly fitting.
And so the triumph of theImmaculate Heart is the
resurrection of the Church.
And I think one argument I findquite persuasive behind that
interpretation of contemporaryevents is that, well, when the
Antichrist comes, the churchwill have to be strong enough to
withstand the most intensepersecution in our history for

(24:49):
the duration of his reign ofthree and a half years.
Well, I look around the churchnow and I don't see that kind of
Christian zeal, particularlyfrom the ostensible pope and
hierarchy and so on, towithstand that level of
persecution.
So no, I think, I think it fitsthat we're going to have to have
this chastening, thischastisement, this collapse,

(25:11):
which will revive apostolic zealamong the hierarchy, which will
then strengthen the church toand extend Christendom to all
four corners of the earth, toand extend Christendom to all
four corners of the earth, tothen be able to withstand the
coming of Antichrist and hispersecution and to be able to
survive.
I mean, the church will beseverely suppressed, or public

(25:33):
celebration of the of the masswill be, will be prohibited.
So so those are two possibletimelines.
As I say, I lean towards thesecond, but there's obviously
got to be a way by which HolyScripture is our primary lens by
which to look at this.
And, as your guest JoshuaCharles said recently, the COVID
suppression of the publiccelebration of the Holy

(25:57):
Sacrifice of the Mass wasincredibly pre-apocalyptic,
incredibly pre-apocalyptic.
The mRNA abortion-derived serumwas very much a foreshadowing
of the mark of the beast.
We're going to have lots ofthese foreshadowings, I think,
before the end times.
So yeah, we're certainly.
I think we're closer towardsthe coming of Christ, the second

(26:18):
coming of Christ, than we aresince his ascension.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
This is man, this is something.
It's just hard for me toseparate all the things we're
seeing in the world fromeverything going on in the
church at the same time.
So you talk about cataconicevents, I mean, along with the
sexual revolution that comes,you see Pope Paul VI laying down

(26:45):
his papal tiara and almost likedivesting the papacy of its
authority over man and no longersaying the church is the
teacher of mankind, but givingthat role to the UN.
Kind, but giving that role tothe UN, because I think it's

(27:09):
kind of crazy to not at leastthink that we are in something
different than we've ever beenin throughout church history.
It's not.
I know we've had theseforeshadows of things to come,
but, and also the difference inyou said earlier that because,
uh, because we are are Christiannations who have fallen away,
it's a lot different than whenthe pagans were converted, right

(27:31):
, so the church goes throughoutthe world and the pagans, who
had never known God, areconverted.
It's a very different thing thanonce Christian nations turning
their back on their God.
And then how God needs tohandle that, because if it is
like the Babylonian captivity,the way God handled Israel at
that time is he allowed theAssyrians to chastise Israel,

(27:57):
and there's almost no way for meto make sense of it.
Unless there is a comingchastisement, there has to be
one, and all the things thatyou're talking about the
collapse of the currency, thecollapse of the of, of fertility
, and all of these things justseem to be coinciding, and the
and and the fact that the Jewshave been gathered back into
Israel, it, I don't, I don't.

(28:19):
It's such a strange thing toseparate that from the Eschaton.
Because they were, they weredriven out as a judgment by God,
so for them to even be allowedto come back in is a very
significant event.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , the doctrine of the witness
people and that, as you say,there, there, the, there is a.
It is cataconic, as in it isrestraining of Antichrist to be
anti-Zionist to try and restrainthe gathering of the Jews in
Israel, because that is going toprecipitate the end times, and

(28:55):
that's why they're doing it,that they are looking to
precipitate the coming of theirMoshiach.
You know the Antichrist.
So, yes, I used the wordcataconic, but I think I
actually mistakenly meantapocalyptic, as in unveiling,
cataconic, as in restraining.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
But yes.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
I.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Well, the catacomb has a very tight, especially
when you go into the fathers.
There's something about thecatacomb that has to do with the
Roman Empire, so a lot of themthought it was the, the, the
roman empire itself, which, um,okay, so uh, after the roman
empire collapses, then whencharlemagne comes, there's this

(29:36):
idea of empire that comes backin that it kind of laid dormant
for a few centuries after thecollapse of the roman empire and
then you get charlemagnebecomes holy roman empire,
emperor, and that idea I meanfor us now is kind of foreign
completely.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
But in throughout, throughout.
You know history every timethere's been a a large like
civil civilizational shift,you've also see a shift in in
like a loss of of romanists.
So you have like napoleon, and,and that whole age of the
french revolution results in theactual loss of the holy roman

(30:14):
empire and the title of holyroman emperor, but you still do
have the hapsburgs up untilworld war one and like this,
this almost suicide of Europe.
And then you do lose theHabsburgs under Blessed Carl and
now, like Anthony said, youhave the Roman Pope laying down
the tiara ushering in the 60sand Vatican II and the sexual

(30:37):
revolution.
So it's like every time we losemore of our civilization in
Christendom it coincides withsome loss of Rome in some sense.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Yeah, that's entirely true.
And what is Rome Romanitas?
Rome is law, and the Antichristis the man of lawlessness.
So what Paul VI was expressingthere was really one of the
principal themes of his apparentpontificate, which was the
renunciation of the rule of lawin the church.
And once law is renounced inthe church and the pope is the

(31:18):
father of princes, as UnumSanctum says, you know, the
vicar of Christ on earth, hewill have to answer before God
for the souls of kings andemperors, the very highest human
authority, and so an authoritycomes from above.
So there's this mysterious, youmight say a kind of universal

(31:42):
set of abdicated from the verytop.
It's then flowed down into um,into, you know, all spiritual
and temporal office holders.
So you know, president trumpobviously does not look to
uphold the us constitution, eventhough that's what he swore to
do at his inauguration.

(32:02):
King Charles III does notuphold the oaths that he made
his coronation, even thoughthat's what he swore to do.
And our bishops do not judgeand punish heretics, even though
that is their role as shepherdsof the Catholic Church.
There's this lawlessness which,as, as I say, is a refusal to
punish, uh, the, the medicine ofmercy which john the 23rd,

(32:26):
introduced this revolutionaryconception of, of the papacy,
and that is all, I think, veryum, very ominously foreshadowing
of the coming of the man of sin, the man of lawlessness.
Just to just to add there onwhat you said about the roman
empire, that the, the idea ofempire resurrected with with,
with charlemagne.
That's true in the west.

(32:46):
But the, the, the church,recognized that the roman empire
continued in the institutionalform it had continued, which was
in the east.
Uh, we call it today thebyzantine emperor empire, but
really that's a westernhistoriographical term.
They just thought of themselvesas romans, as carrying, and in
fact Justinian spoke Latin andmost of the popes in the 7th and

(33:11):
8th centuries were Greek.
So there was what's called thetranslatio imperii, where, with
the Byzantine weakening theRoman popes, pope Leo II, I
think, translated the imperialdignity from Constantinople from

(33:32):
the Greeks to the Franks, andhe crowned.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Well, it's interesting because we say one
holy Catholic and apostolicchurch are the four notes of the
church, but it really is one.
Holy Roman and apostolic churchare the four notes of the
church, but it really is oneholy roman, catholic, apostolic.
So even the, even the byzantine, right now I, I, I am.
I just bought dr dr alanphimister's book, uh, the iron
scepter of the son of man, so Ijust started digging into.
I just got it yesterday, agreat book, oh, I'm so excited

(33:59):
for it.
So now, this is why you can sayeven even the Eastern churches
that are part of that areincorporated into the Roman
church, like they are Roman.
So it's, even though they're adifferent right and they're an
Eastern right, they are stillRoman.
Roman is definitely a note ofthe church and it's.
It's interesting You're sayingthat, like the, the, the

(34:22):
prophecy of Daniel, even, whereNebuchadnezzar's dream and he
has the dream of the idol withthe two legs in that prophecy
the two legs represent East andWest that the church will be in
two separate.
You know, there will be achurch of the East and a church
in the West, but they will allstill be Roman.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Yeah, right, exactly.
And it's the fact that thatsplit has occurred which again
points towards the end of time.
The legs of iron then minglingwith feet of clay, which the
fathers also interpret that thetwo halves of the Roman Empire

(35:04):
will lead to 10 democracieswhich the Antichrist will
conquer.
That's, that's.
I think it's been a while sinceI've read Dr Phemis's book, but
he elaborates and comments onthe father's commentary on the
dream there in Daniel, father'scommentary on the uh the, the

(35:27):
dream there in daniel.
So, yes, that when, when yousee is, as rob was saying, the
vitiation of romanitas in theworld, that is, the uh the, the
trajectory towards, uh, the endof the world yeah, it's kind of
hard to not see America as thenew Rome and Israel as the whore
of the apocalypse.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
It's kind of hard to not see it working out that way.
I mean, that's kind of the wayI'm seeing it happening in the
church, coinciding, where it'salmost like the church is
impotent at this time to evenguard her children, to warn them
of what is on the horizon, andit's left up to people like us

(36:11):
to be explaining these things issuch a such a stark thing for
me to understand that andthere's so few priests willing
to speak out on on this issuethat I, I don issue that I don't
know how it goes forward,because there's so few people in
positions of authority who arewilling to discipline their

(36:32):
children and this idea oflawlessness right.
The whole world is in a stateof lawlessness now, including
parents with their children.
Their children will do thingsand parents don't punish their
children in any way.
They don't correct theirbehavior.
In some cases, you have parentsencouraging this horrible
behavior and it's just acomplete disintegration of
authority and fathers unwillingto play their role, from the

(36:56):
church to the secular, to everyfacet of society right now.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
Yes, exactly, exactly , and it begins at the top.
If you'll permit me, I'll justquote here from Romano Amerio's
Iota Runum, a masterfultreatment of the council in the
post-conciliar crisis.
He writes the external fact isthe disunity of the church,
visible in the disunity of thebishops among themselves and

(37:24):
with the pope.
The internal fact, producing it, is the renunciation, that is,
the non-functioning of papalauthority itself, from which the
renunciation of all otherauthority derives.
So it's this mysteriousplatonic participation on.
Air.
De balzac said that when theycut off the head of King Louis

(37:44):
XVI, they cut off the heads ofall the fathers in France.
There's a fragilization ofauthority that occurs from that
attack, that killing of the kingritual by the enemies of the
church and, although they mightnot know it, the secular man
that today feels that innershame uh in being, let's say, in

(38:06):
disciplining his children in apublic space, because p, because
our effeminate society uh, ourdeeply denatured society uh
means that the people aroundwill start to um, scorn him uh,
or to criticize him for, for,for being the the father.
He doesn't know that, that the,the cause of that is because of
john the 23rd and paul thesixth renunciation authority,

(38:29):
but it flows down to all thoseyou know, through the
capillaries of society, to allthose individual cases, all
fragilized because these menrefuse to be fathers.
But as you say, you knowthey're.
They're silent, but our lordwas largely mute during his
passion.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
So the scheme fits he has his seven words on the
cross and also St Peter, right?
So St Peter denies our Lord andall the apostles scatter and
what you have is just St Johnand Our Lady at the foot of the
cross, but all the otherapostles scatter after Peter's
denial.
Apostles scatter after Peter'sdenial and, typologically, you

(39:06):
can't take Because, look, I madea point on a recent show that
all of the post-conciliar popesseem to be ashamed of our Lord,
right, all of them.
And there's this I don't knowif it's a feminacy or what, but
they are afraid to say the truthto the world and they're

(39:29):
worried that they're going to bescorned because they and Jesus
says you, who are ashamed of me,I will be ashamed of, like,
there's, there's this really bigissue of these post-conciliar
popes afraid to just be men andsay no, this is wrong, you
cannot do this.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yeah, and it's worse than that.
They're actually preachinganti-Catholic doctrines as well,
condemning propositions ofliberalism, ecumenism and so on.
So it's actively destructive.
And I was speaking with afriend the other day and he was
talking about how, just howupsetting the church crisis is,
and and I said, yeah, the churchcrisis is the most upsetting

(40:10):
thing in the world.
The most, the most, the most,the most.
Um, the most conceivablyupsetting thing in the world,
because Our Lady stood at thefoot of the cross was the most
dolorous person that's everexisted.

(40:30):
Yeah, even though she knew thathe would rise again, and so it
fits that today we would beexperiencing something of her
sorrow.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yeah, look man, because we have a new Pope now
and I think my position is that,because I'm always caught
between there's a level ofdocility towards the Pope that
you should have as a Catholic,but there's also like we can't
be naive.
I mean, leo is not going torestore anything, he's just not.

(41:05):
I mean he's he OK, he's thepope and we have to show a level
of filial piety to our father.
But the idea that he's a greatpope is absurd.
I mean he's even even the factthat he didn't come in and just
flat out say these things needto be corrected so far.
So there may be this period ofwhere it's not as hectic in the

(41:29):
media and stuff, but nothing isbeing fixed within the church
anytime soon.
In that respect, it is going totake a chastisement from God.
The situation is so bad on thehuman level that only divine
intervention can actually fixthe problems that we're dealing
with.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
Yes, I wonder if the enemies of the church I get the
sense sometimes narratives, themeta narrative that they were
looking to, that they weretransmitting and they they
triggered many, many converts.
You know, when the devil actsso explicitly like that, it's
going to drive people towardsour Lord, but at other times
they seem to be eking out theclock.
I don't know my Americanfootball so well, but there's

(42:24):
sort of metaphors with regardsto sort of playing for time and
it seems to be that with thesevarious office holders in both
church and state, there's a big,there's like the endless
conversation.
It's like nothing actually, youknow the meme nothing ever
happens.
It's a very interestingconversation.
It's like nothing actually, youknow the meme nothing ever
happens.
It's a very interesting thing toconsider, really, because it

(42:51):
generates interesting responses.
I think it generates thisresponse of learned helplessness
, where you realise that yourchurch and your civilisation is
decomposing and there's nothingyou can do about it, and it's
designed to breed despair, whichis a sin against the Holy Ghost

(43:12):
.
So so thereby to damn.
I mean he's already spokenpublicly denying the licity of
the death penalty, which is acondemned heresy.
But you know, who knows,perhaps he will receive that

(43:36):
grace of conversion.
It's very striking that you'vegot this American pope and an
American emperor, so to speak.
It shows how America is global.
Is is globalism justAmericanism?
You know is.
Is globalization justAmericanization?

Speaker 1 (43:53):
yeah, I think it is right.
It's look, there was thisperiod where, look, the church
at one time went forth andbaptized all nations.
And what happens, especiallyduring the 9-11 period, what you
see is America going forth andspreading democracy instead of
the gospel.
It's this weird thing wherewe're like we need to spread

(44:13):
democracy.
No, if you actually wanted tospread anything, if you would
have went and converted theMuslim nations, could you
imagine if, instead of us goingand spreading democracy, we went
and spread the gospel andconverted the Muslim nations to
Christianity?
Then you would have had somekind of lasting peace in the
Middle East?
But that's not what happenedand that's why, in a way, the

(44:35):
gathering of the people ofIsrael into their homeland has a
very big part to play in thisthem.
Stoking enmity between people inthat area is a very big deal.
It's yeah, because we couldhave actually had peace in the

(44:56):
Middle East if we had gone andspread the gospel there.
But you can't do that after theEnlightenment period because
you already have this revolution, and you already have this
revolution and you already haveall these nations who refuse to
accept Christ as king.
So there's, the Americangovernment has to be seen as
secular and it doesn't matterhow Christian your, your

(45:17):
president, pretends to be,they're not really Christian.
They're not actually servingChrist as king.
So they go and they spread thisfalse gospel to the Middle East
, which is democracy, which isreally just liberalization, and
it backfires in their face.
And the whole world just seemsto be falling deeper and deeper
into chaos.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
Yeah, liberalism is disintegration.
Before the Middle East wasoccupied, europe was occupied.
That's the story of the SecondWorld War.
That Europe, the old world, wasdivided between the communist
soviet union and the liberalcapitalist american empire.
Never since we've lived underthis american dispensation.
Our mutual friend charlescolombe, very acutely, astutely,

(45:58):
characterized thepost-conciliar period as the
american captivity of the church.
That's actually a great way tosee it, that that we concentrate
on many of the nouvelletheologians being european and,
uh, being the sort of nervecenters of modernism, places

(46:18):
like the university of niemegentubing in in germany, all of
these, these heretics doing suchdestruction.
But actually, as, as CharlesCullum points out, who funded
them?
Who publicized their poisonousdoctrines in the press?
Who lauded their efforts?
Who put institutional, that isto say legal, via the American

(46:42):
empire and its influence onWestern European governments,
put legal weight behind theecclesial revolution.
It was the united states yeah,and there's been.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
I know e michael jones has spoken about the cia
uh sticking their nose into thecouncil itself, being behind
some of the the the moreliberalized documents that came
out.
Uh, they were very involved inwho was going to be succeeded by
Pius XII.
I mean, there's documents thathave come out talking about all

(47:12):
of that.
It really is, and you even havePope Benedict XVI speaking
about after the FrenchRevolution.
They saw the AmericanRevolution as like a correction
of that and that there can be arevolution, but it doesn't have
to go as far as the frenchrevolution, but we can.
And they really brought theamerican revolution into the

(47:34):
church, and especially at thetime of the council.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Um, and, and now it's fulfilled we have an american
pope.
It's so.
It's really interesting.
It's reached its apogee, isn'tit?
Isn't it fitting, though, thatif it is, it is the American
captivity of the church, theAmerican revolution, the church,
that now it has an Americanhead, and it shows how
consistent that research as yousay, by Dr Michael Jones, and

(47:59):
also by David Wemhoff, whosubsequently has become rather
Americanist, but that view, atime life, cia, john Courtney
Murray, the American propositionis cutting edge research.
I believe that that it is.
It is one of the interpretivekeys for the church crisis
Understanding the role ofAmerica, something omitted by

(48:20):
various thinkers, writers likeTaylor Marshall, for various
reasons, something Americansoften apt to forget, but I think
it's very important.
I mean, just a few years ago, Iwas hearing rumors of,
following Bergoglio, there beingan Opus Dei, saviour pope put
in to recuperate people backinto the Vatican, to paradigm

(48:43):
the Vatican, to institution and,and, and thus rehabilitate them
back into this dialectic, andthat is the revolutionary
process.
It is the dialectic, andRatzinger was a master of the
Hegelian dialectic.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
Oh man, this is so interesting.
I didn't think this is where wewere going to go with this.
But even the FBI looking intotraditional Catholics in America
that that's all come forward.
They see that we have theyounger generation does not care
about the council at all.
We're sick of it.
We don't want anything to dowith it because I, when I, when

(49:22):
I come in, I don't want to saycome into the church.
I've always been Catholic.
I don't even like the termrevert, but when I start taking
my faith seriously, even all ofmy favorite Catholic authors and
speakers, they all were justalways talking about the council
and the hermeneutic ofcontinuity and all these things.

(49:42):
And it's so different now theconversation that younger people
I think the McCarrick scandaland COVID just completely
flipped the switch where people,the younger generation, does
not care about this stuff.
We want to return to tradition.
We are so sick of the way thatBishop Barron speaks, the way

(50:04):
that all the Steubenville guystalk about the council and all
this stuff.
Just, we're done with it and Ithink they have a very deep fear
, so that the idea of an OpusDei, savior, pope coming in
makes a lot of sense that theywant to try and get, and the
appeal to the Americans, who arekind of leading the charge,

(50:25):
towards tradition, the youngergeneration who are just fed up
with everything they see.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
Did you see that quote?
By that I don't know if it's aSwedish or Norwegian bishop,
bishop, bishop Erichvard, I haveit right here.
Oh, awesome.
So he says, today's youngCatholics are not ungrateful for
the council's gifts, but unableto proceed with their
grandparents' mindsets,uninclined to flog dead horses,

(50:52):
unenthused by fossilizedprojects of adjournment when the
sun has set on the giorno bywhich they were defined.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
So this is a bishop who actually sees what's
happening.
He's like the younger people.
They want nothing to do withthis.
They don't want to flog a deadhorse.
It's just the language thatthey all spoke of.
You saw, even in Barron'sconversation with Ben Shapiro
talking about.
Well, the Second Vatican Councilspoke of other religions and
Jesus is just the privileged wayLike.

(51:22):
We're sick of this, we're tiredof it.
We want the church to stopbeing ashamed of what it is.
We want the, we want thehierarchy to proclaim the truth
of the catholic faith.
So we're in a position nowwhere I'm watching these online
uh discussions between catholicsand protestants, or catholics
and muslims, or catholics andatheists, and a a lot of the

(51:45):
Catholic apologists are arguingfor a faith that is no longer
presented.
It's just no longer presentedby the hierarchy.
It's a totally differentversion.
Even this conversation about doJews and Muslims worship the
same God as the Christians?
I guess in the natural order,you could technically say they

(52:05):
worship one God and there onlyis one God.
But no, their God is verydifferent from the Trinity and
the God of that we worship.
It is a drastically differentGod.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
Yeah, but all those errors were crystallized by the
documents of Vatican II and itsofficial exegesis, by the office
holders in the church.
I was just reading the otherday an address by John Paul II
to the European Parliament inStrasbourg in 1988, where he was
basically preaching liberalismand condemning Christendom, and

(52:42):
that is the interpretation thatthe official interpretation was
given.
Well, it's ratified by theofficial interpretation, so
therefore it's erroneous.
So I'd say this idea ofignoring the council I don't
necessarily agree with.
I think the documents do needto be revisited and they need to
be rescinded.
They need to actually be allcorrected.
They need to be.

(53:02):
The truth needs to beproclaimed.
But, as we're saying, this isthere was a geopolitics behind
Vatican II.
There were tens of thousands ofAmerican soldiers in Italy with
Pershing missiles and nuclearcapabilities in Italy at the
time, and the council fathersclearly felt that pressure.

(53:22):
There was the Council of theMedia that Ralph Vilkin
describes and shaped the publicCouncil of the Media that Ralph
Vilkin describes and shaped thepublic optics of the Council
controlled by the AmericanEmpire, and the Council then
became this surrender to themodern world as spearheaded by
the American Empire.
And so I think when we seetoday Prevost being elected

(53:48):
largely as a result of americanpressure.
I'm talking about cardinaldolan, cardinal burke and so on.
Um, we're still in the sameparadigm, and you're right.
There is, of course, thistraditional revival.
I think we just got to bevigilant that the traditional
revival, because the enemies ofthe church see this, they have,
they have more information thanwe have.
Let's say, the synagogue isvery good at intelligence

(54:10):
espionage, it's one of theirsuper weapons, and so they can
see what's going on and theywill look to hijack and co-opt
that reaction.
And I think, that revival andyou can already see that, with
certain characters perhaps thatare infiltrating the traditional
movement and they're trying tosynthesize it with
Nietzscheanism, or they'retrying to synthesize it with

(54:32):
white ethno-nationalism, basedCatholicism, where again the
church is instrumentalized it'snot about this being the means
by which God has established forus to save our souls and be
happy with him forever in thenext life, but instead it's it's
seen as like the best way toform, like a based social order
or something like that.

(54:52):
Well, that's a false gospel, uh.
So we've got to be, we've gotto be careful of of, you know,
the.
The snake is always is movingand it will always adapt uh to
different circumstances.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
Yeah, um, if we see we have this American pope and
we have this American emperor,we also have this prefigurement
of the mark of the beast thatTrump himself was very much a
part of, and the closest thingwe've ever seen to the
sacraments being shut down iswhat happened during that period

(55:25):
.
I can't help but see everythingand and the idea of spectacle
that I never really caught on tobefore, and it really struck me
after the assassination attemptof how much I was caught up in
that and my, my, my fervor forgetting Trump.
Oh, you need Trump elected.

(55:46):
And then just seeing that heeven talked me into it.
Oh, it's so wild I was.
So they got me.
How did they get me?
Cause I was so done withpolitics after 2016.
I was like this is all nonsense, like everything is just
nonsense.
And they got me and I feel sostupid for falling for it.
But, um, something got me and Ifeel so stupid for falling for

(56:09):
it.
But something hit me.
I went away with my wife.

(56:34):
Then I just see the greatpowers are coming up.
I think the world will be atwar before Trump's term is up.
I don't see how we can avoidthat between China, russia, the
Middle East and us with ourstupid fingers in every single
area of these major powers.
I don't see how we're notcoming up on something way worse

(56:59):
than World War II.
It's just a matter of how soon.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Yeah, I think that's very plausible.
Look at the, the classicmanifestations of divine wrath,
uh, on man's against as a resultof man's sinfulness, and, of
course, plague.
Well, we had a fake plague, um,and then and, and war, and and
famine, uh, and there have beenseveral instances of what people

(57:24):
call predictive programmingcovers of the Economist, various
movies, tv shows and so on, topoint to or suggest that
President Trump will be thefigure that leads America into a
third world war.
And, of course, I think thatwas the sort of meta-political
purpose of Trump in his firstterm, in that President Hillary

(57:47):
would never have got 80% ofAmericans receiving an
abortion-derived mRNA injection,surrendering their bodily
autonomy and so on, allowing thestate to nationalize their
bodies, all the implicationsthat it results in.
But Trump gets people on board,or a lot of people on board, to
do that.
Likewise, many more Americansare now joining the military
because of Pete Hegzeth'santi-woke campaign.

(58:10):
It gets Americans, thedeplorables invested back into
the, the empire, rehabilitatespeople back into the system.
And while President KamalaHarris might not get people
enthused about a war with Chinaor Russia, whoever it is,
president Trump may well fulfillthat function.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
So yeah, the woke thing to me, it was almost so
ridiculous that nobody reallyyou're talking about 2% of the
population actually believe thatnonsense.
So when they were pushing thesepolicies and all facets of so,
for Trump to come in and justtone that back a little bit, he
looks like a savior figure, butmeanwhile it was just so

(58:52):
ridiculous and absurd to beginwith.
So now everybody thinks he'sthis savior figure and, like you
said, pete Hegseth coming inand he's getting woke out of the
military, and now you haveenlistments are up and
everybody's getting thatpatriotic spirit up again, and
then all it's going to take issome false flag to happen
somewhere.
Nope, we have to go and takecare of this and I can't believe

(59:14):
russia did this to us.
It just seems like the chesspieces are being put in place
for all of those things tohappen.
So now let's say those thingsare coming to happen.
What is it?
Because the whole point of yourum, little christendom uh, the
way of little christendom wasyou had suggestions on ways that

(59:34):
we can actually be be the thingthat rebuilds from the, from
the pieces, once it's shattered,because it's going to shatter
and it may be 10 years, it maybe 20, 20,.
But whatever we're in right now, it is coming to a collapse.
So how do we rebuild from that?

Speaker 2 (59:53):
Yeah.
So that, I think, is imperativeon us as laity, our vocation is
preeminently political.
So we're family men, we haveour families, we have our
communities and that then formsa society, forms a political
community ultimately, which wewant to convert.
We must convert to the kingship, to recognize the kingship of

(01:00:15):
Christ as is owing and befittinghis dignity.
Christianity must haveChristendom as a kind of
incarnation in this life, apublic expression of Christ's
reign.
So that's our mission and it'sabout how do we fulfill that
mission.
Well, what I wanted to do therewas present a positive vision,
because there's so much ruing ofwhat's happening today and I

(01:00:39):
think within that is a littlebit of residual liberalism in
which we don't want the comfortsto be taken away and so on, and
I include myself in that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
None of us want to experience that I like going out
on the boat on weekends.
I like to do things.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
Exactly, yeah, I mean it's yeah.
Yeah, we've only known thatpost-war abundance which is
going to come to an end, and Ithink it behooves us to really
start thinking aboutconstructive propositions,
constructive solutions to whatwe should be doing outside the

(01:01:16):
babylonian structures andsystems.
And so that's, that's what Iwas advocating, particularly in
part two of that essay.
The little way of christendomisom is to divest ourselves,
divest our time, talent andtreasure from these Babylonian
structures and invest themwithin Catholic institutions to
reconstitute Catholic socialorder.
Now, my friend Will Tucker Ithink you know Will Tucker of

(01:01:45):
the Analogeratist, channel.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
he responds to people saying well, this is black
pilled, this idea.
You, tucker I think you knowWill Tucker of the Analogeratist
channel he goes to the sameparish In response to people
saying, well, this isblackpilled, this idea you know
don't.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
Ah, right, okay, small world, yeah.
In response to this charge thatto secede from participation
within the liberal process, theelectoral process, in my view,
the theatre In response to thecharge that, well, that's just
blackpilled, no, no, will, saysin response, no, you
participating are on like ablackpill dialysis OK, if you

(01:02:19):
invest your hope in Trump, youwill only be disappointed If you
invest it in Brexit, in NigelFarage, in Marine Le Pen, in
whichever liberal politicalentity you choose, it will only
bring despair, which is a sin.
So it breeds despair, shall wesay, it inclines people to it.
So, no, I think what I want todo is offer.

(01:02:40):
What I wanted was to offerpeople a message of hope and of
something constructive.
So, following my friend JosueHernandez, who runs the Pasqua
Florida project, I wanted to tryand look at what organic
integralism would look like,what a reconstructed Christian
social order would look likefrom the ground up.
If the enemies of the churchare building this monolithic,

(01:03:05):
globalist panopticon,judeo-masonic, liberal system,
then it behooves us to look tothe little way inspired by St
Teresa of Lisieux's spirituality, the little way, the humble way
of family life and thenreconstituting community life
Catholic businesses, guilds,almshouses, schools, sodalities,

(01:03:29):
orders of chivalry, all ofthese intermediary institutions
which will be there and will beable to hopefully withstand this
liberal systemic collapse.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
You see that happening in some areas.
The Catholic land movement yousee some.
I know Brian Holdsworth is alsotrying to do something like
that, where he's trying to builda community of Catholic
businesses because we reallyhave to have, especially if we
come up on a situation where ifyou don't do this, you can't buy

(01:04:05):
and sell.
We're going to need some wayfor us to care for one another
without being a part of thatsystem.
I hope we still have time to doit because it really is an
important thing and, like thisyear was the first year, my wife
was like we have to start ourgarden.

(01:04:25):
So we started with a gardenthis year and just just little
things, just just to see howthat goes.
Next year I'm going to make itmuch bigger, but I hope there's
still time to do these thingsBecause I I do think we just
recently interviewed bug halland he talked about he just
bought a plot of land inArkansas and he's building.

(01:04:47):
He wants to make it so that hedoesn't even have to buy like
cattle feed.
He wants his.
He wants a fully integratedfarm system that the that cares
for itself.
So you don't even need thesystem to buy, buy things from
them at all.
So, um, yeah, but and you alsomentioned in your thing like

(01:05:07):
even, even, um, like the prolife movement, things like that
have all, all just beencorrupted at this point.
They're all just entities thatare made to raise money but
they're not actually gettinganything done.
So, yeah, we we're going tostart having to have a 50, a
hundred year plan here.
We have to stop thinking aboutfixing the thing that's in place

(01:05:27):
right now, but we have to havea 50 100 year plan.
Here we have to stop thinkingabout fixing the thing that's in
place right now, but we have tostart thinking 50 100 years out
yeah, here in the us it's allnext four years, right next
election that's, that's, that'sall we think about yeah, yeah,
it's like a counterfeitliturgical calendar

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
the american electrical that's a craft by the
, the fallen angels, to distractyou from living the liturgical
year.
Uh, you know when's.
When's the next?
Uh, you know impeachment trial,and when's this primus?
primary interesting wow it's,it's all a counterfeit.
So, uh, yes, I think that'sthat's encouraging.

(01:06:05):
As you say, the hour is late, Ido that sense, and that's felt
not just among traditionalCatholics.
There were 200, I think,wealthy parents and they were

(01:06:25):
asked who feels optimistic orwho feels that their son is
going to have a good standard ofliving.
It was cast in entirelymaterialistic terms and two
people put their hands up out of200.
So there is a widespreadawareness that, as I say, the
consequences of our sinfulnessare going to be, uh, visited

(01:06:47):
upon us.
So, yes, I think the hour islate, but but still, that
doesn't mean that it's not.
You know, it's like conversion,it's.
It's never too late.
You can always, until until youbreathe your last, you can take
these steps to to be, uh,integrally traditional, which
means liturgically traditional,which means doctrinally
traditional, but it also meansnutritionally traditional in

(01:07:09):
terms of growing your own food.
It means you know as much asyou can in your, in your, in
your work as well, in your, inyour friendships, in your
pastimes, in your pursuits, allof these different means by
which to you know, to todistance yourself, secede from
this Antichrist machine.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
Yeah, we have our work cut out for us.
Yeah, it's not.
Rob always teases me a bitbecause I do feel this coming
and he's like, yeah, but you'restill in New York.
He's like you still haven't,you still haven't.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
So it's like I live on an Island in New York.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
I still feel this impending sense that something
is coming it's not doom oranything and in a way, I'm not.
I'm in no way am I blackmailed,and and I am I'm excited that I
get to see the story ofChristianity playing out Right,
because I think a lot of peoplehave this idea that after the
book of Acts the story is overand it's not like the, the.

(01:08:12):
The story of Christianity isvery much the spread of
Christendom and then thecollapse of Christendom, and
then there's a very big climaxat the end of the story and
we're, we're, we're in that partof the story.
So to me it's exciting thatwe're in that.
But there's going to be a lotof suffering on the horizon and
I think if we don't startpreparing ourselves for that
suffering, we're going to betoast.

(01:08:33):
And you know it starts withsomething as small as fasting
regularly and denying ourselvespleasures, but then, when you
start getting on the biggerscale, yeah, it's going to come
to starting to plant your ownfood and things like that and
then trying to figure out howwe're going to function with
other Catholics.
If this happens, because we'renot going to, you're either,

(01:08:57):
you're going to be.
You're going to be in asituation, much like we were in
covid, where you will not beable to participate in society
if you do not do X, will not beable to participate in society
if you do not do X.
And you found out very quicklyhow many people were like I just
got it because I wanted to beable to go out to a restaurant.
I just got it because I wantedto be able to go to a concert.
Now the people that gave in onthat first one to me, that first

(01:09:21):
one, it was like if I'm notwilling to lose my job over this
, if I'm not willing to give upeverything to stand by this,
I'll never be able to have thestrength when the real one comes
.
That's kind of how I saw it.
So it wasn't like I thought wewere in the apocalypse at that
time.
I just said this is a type andif I don't have the strength to

(01:09:43):
stand up to this type when thereal thing comes, I'll
definitely not have the strengthfor it, because this is just a
small little inconvenience atthis point.
So yeah, I want to startthinking deeper about this and
how we're going to go forwardand care for one another when
we're cast out from the system.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
Yes, contra the nothing ever happens meme, we
feel that, partly because of thepsycho-spiritual ways in which
the enemies of the church, whichhave hegemony over our
societies, manipulate us, butalso we're just in a lull and,
as you say, we have livedthrough very seismic events

(01:10:26):
which were deeply typologicaland, as you say, they were a
great grace because theyafforded us the opportunity to,
you know, the revelation ofconscience in a certain sense,
and I do think that you know,even though you're on an island,
in New York, and New York isdefinitely getting hit first by
I hope I get taken out in ablast.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
I have no desire to live through some
post-apocalyptic scenario yeah,that fire from heaven.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
Yeah, I think, uh, the big apples I'm in london at
the moment.
Uh, london, you know uh was aprogenitor of the, the
revolution.
I mean, freemasonry was firstsort of unified here in 1717, uh
, so so l going to get it, but Ithink there will be some kind
of warning.
Covid was a warning, but Ithink there'll be another

(01:11:13):
warning.
I mean, you know, the messageof Fatima talks about the
message left by, the sign leftby my son, and Gara Bandal talks
about, you know, an explicitwarning.
Now, I know, gara Bandal,there's issues there.
I'm not an expert on Marianapparitions, I'm not too well
read and knowledgeable aboutthem, but I do think that
there's a common theme there.

(01:11:33):
It will, there will be somekind of sense that you know.
We know when we have to takemore dramatic steps.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
Yeah, my plan is to go to Minnesota and stay with
Rob when things go terriblywrong.

Speaker 3 (01:11:58):
I'm coming.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
First time Rob's heard that plan.
Theo, this was so fun, man.
I definitely want to do anotherone.
So I know you're in England andwe're over here.
Uh, this was so fun, man.
I, uh, I, I definitely want todo another one.
So I know you're in England andwe're over here, but if I get a
bank holiday that comes up inAmerican bank holiday or
something where Rob and I areboth off, we're definitely going
to schedule something with you.
Um, you, uh, yeah, you havesomething planned for tonight.

(01:12:21):
That's why we did this a littleearly on the American side.
But thank you so much for yourtime, man.
This was, it was really nicegetting to meet you and, yeah,
we're, we're, we're very, we're,very much on the same page with
the way we're seeing things.
So it's good to have a brotheracross the pond.

Speaker 3 (01:12:35):
Where, where can everyone find you and your
channel?

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
So it's the two cities podcast.
There was some kind ofevangelical American Protestant
podcast of the same name, but Ithink I've now expanded so that
if you search up the two citiesyou'll get mine.
But, yeah, that's where it canbe found YouTube, podomatic,
itunes, these various platforms.

(01:12:59):
I have audio versions.
I also have a locals channelwhere I release more content.
It's been a bit quiet recently,but I'm going to be producing
more on traditionalist economics, which I think, again, is
another part of our anotherdomain of the laity to look at,
and it's been a real pleasure tobe with you, gents, and thank
you very much.
Perhaps in the future we cantalk a little bit.
I'd like to hear from you someof the encouraging ventures and

(01:13:23):
initiatives that you've seen inthe US with regards to, and
initiatives that you've seen inthe US with regards to lay
institutions, lay efforts.
I'm aware of some of those.
You mentioned some of those aswell, but that was something I
put at the end of my essay isthat I'm open to a conversation
with anybody who is thinkingalong these lines.
I think, as you say, more andmore people are thinking along
these lines.
They're not investing theirhopes and dreams within the

(01:13:45):
liberal system, but they'rethinking of Catholic solutions.
So if people have instances ofthat where we can share ideas
and we can, you know, draw onthe best practice, then please
do get in touch.

Speaker 1 (01:13:59):
Yeah, well, just to touch on that for a second.
Will Tucker goes to the sameparish as my cousin, my cousin's
from new york.
He said his entire parish ismade up of transplants from
around america.
They all moved to kentucky sothey became a family, that
parish.
They don't have other familywhere they live, so that parish

(01:14:20):
is the family.
So enoch, who met my cousinbecause he was on my channel for
trivia one day my cousin's wiferecognized him from being on my
channel he's now my cousin'schild's godfather.
They go to the same parish andthey've built a family in the
truest sense, a spiritual family, because they're not

(01:14:41):
genetically family and they'veall transplanted from around the
country and they've createdthis family down there and my
cousin's now farming and he'sit's.
It really is, oh it.
There are ways to do it.
You just have to have thecourage to be the first one to
go, like my cousin was, andhopefully one day I'm able to
follow in his footsteps andmaybe I'll go down and I'll join

(01:15:02):
their little family down there.

Speaker 3 (01:15:03):
So you're never making it kentucky.
You don't like bourbon.

Speaker 1 (01:15:07):
That is true, Theo.
Thank you so much, man.
We'll do this again.
Yeah, everybody, go check outthe Two Cities podcast and, if
you want, listen to his if youwant.
If you've never seen hischannel, start with his little
way of Christendom.
It is a short, 23 minute video,but it's very, very
enlightening and kind of toucheson all the subjects we did

(01:15:27):
today.
There may be some stuff wedidn't even have a chance to get
to.
So, uh, thank you, Theo, andwe'll see you soon.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
Anthony, thank you.