Father Jason Charron Interview with Matt Fradd Causes Backlash?

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
SANTE, sante AMARE MORTI LEGADAS NOS In tes per a

(00:23):
verand.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
All right, no opening video tonight.
We don't know what eyes aregoing to watch this video.
I have a feeling it might windup having a different audience
than we usually have, so Ididn't want to just make the
whole thing jovial.
Juvenile jokes um, while we'rewaiting for people to build in a
little bit, uh, christianwagner is a friend of ours.

(00:53):
Um, christian, have we spokenon air since we uh hung out in
north carolina?
I don't think so I don't thinkwe have not on air, right, like
me and you me and you talkbehind the scenes and stuff.
But so, yeah, we got to meetChristian when we went down to
North Carolina recently, spent afew hours hanging out.
We don't have a good time.
Before we get into the subjectmatter, we are going to do a

(01:16):
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All right.
So now to the subject at hand.
We're not going to bury thelead tonight.
So initial thoughts, so initialthoughts.
I saw Matt posted the thumbnailand the title a couple of days
before it actually aired and I'mlike, okay, what angle is he

(02:39):
going to take with this, thetitle being what, what was?

Speaker 3 (02:42):
the actual title.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
It was like the donald trump, the woke right and
something else and the ukrainewar or something like that, and
I I hate the idea of evenframing this conversation this
way, um, but I do think thatpeople genuinely don't know what
it means.
Um, I think specifically don'tknow what it means the woke

(03:06):
right part specifically, I'msorry, yeah, the woke right part
.
I don't know if peopleunderstand where this phrase
comes from, what it means, whyit's being thrown around so much
.
So I think we're going to haveto get into the origins of it.
Who's the one behind this wholething?
We're going to play a couple ofclips from that interview and

(03:28):
just kind of go through it.
When I threw the interview on, Iwas just kind of like taken
back, like whoa, because I likeFather Sharon, like I genuinely
like him.
I think he's a really goodpriest, I think that he's like I
, I see him, I kind of mydisagreements with him on the

(03:50):
ukraine war I've always kind oflooked at like okay, he, this,
this is very close to his heart,he has family over there, he
knows, he knows people on theground over there.
I I always gave him leeway tohave a disagreement with me
because this issue was so closeto his heart.
So I I kind of just was likeall right, you know, I I get it
like we can have a disagreementon it, and it doesn't.

(04:11):
It never affected my view ofhim in any way because he felt
this strongly about this issue.
Um, what's your experience withfather charlton christian?

Speaker 3 (04:21):
I mean father, father jason, uh, Christian, I mean
Father Jason.
I've spoken positively abouthim in the past.
Actually, I was in a little bitof talks with somebody who
worked with Father Jason, tryingto spread a fundraiser that he
was running to repair somethingin his church because his church
might actually have to Godforbid shut down because of a

(04:43):
leak in their bell, uh, theirbell tower, basically.
Um, so, if anybody's interestedin that, I actually linked it
um in a post earlier.
Um, so I've always, I've alwayshad a great deal of respect for
him.
Uh, you know, we haven't haddirect contact, but indirect,
and no, I don't, I don't want tosay anything bad about him as a
priest.
I mean, we want to keep thiscivil.

(05:04):
Anthony actually called me andwas like I don't want to seem
like we're being unkind toeither Matt or Father Jason,
because we do genuinelyappreciate this.
So I hope that this streamcomes across in the right way,
that we're not trying to.
We're trying to approach thisdelicately and charitably,
understanding that, especiallywhen it comes to matters like

(05:27):
this of the temporal order, thatthere is a great degree of
leeway in discussing thesematters as practical.
Okay, and did you want todiscuss the whole origins of the
woke right term, which is kindof what set off the alarms in
the first play, Because for alot of people who haven't heard

(05:49):
this term woke right, it wouldseem really weird that we saw
this, and I mean a lot of uswere messaging behind the scenes
like, hey, this is coming outfrom Matt.
We didn't know what it was goingto contain.
It ended up mostly being aboutthe Ukraine war, which

(06:11):
personally I don't care too muchabout the Ukraine war, but I
understand that a lot of otherpeople do have strong feelings
about it and they can or cannotif they so wish.
But seeing this term woke rightwas such an alarm for me
because of what the opposite ofwoke right represents, which is
a mainstream conservatism thatis basically practically

(06:31):
libertarian in nature.
It is socially liberal.
It's invented by James Lindsay,who is an atheist who
definitely does not espouseCatholic political theology.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
James Lindsay wants a democratic, secular
enlightenment utopia.
He's stated several times hewants to be.
He thinks 1996 was the greatesttime in the history of the
world and everything he's doing.
This term woke right isbasically used as a shoe-in word

(07:09):
for anti-Semite.
That's essentially what it is.
So basically, the word racist,the word anti-Semitic, those
words lost their stingcompletely.
But over the last couple ofyears the term that actually did
work was calling things woke.
So we called things woke, so wecalled things woke.
On the left Everybody was justlike I don't like this woke
thing, I don't like it.
So in place of anti-Semitic,James has decided just call

(07:34):
anybody who criticizes Israel inany way whatsoever, Just call
them woke right.
That's all it really comes downto.
I mean, he acts like he hasthis whole philosophy behind it,
but that's essentially whathe's getting at.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
I mean, he acts like he has this whole philosophy
behind it, but that'sessentially what he's getting at
, it's just another way forpeople on the left to call us
Nazis, basically.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
I think it goes a degree further though, because I
mean I've seen other areaswhich this touches, which I
think that, when it comes toFather Jason and Matt, that they
would not be OK with.
So, for example, James Lindsaywill also point to those who in
any way are collectivists, andcollectivism basically means oh,

(08:10):
you want religion to have arole in governance Well, you're
woke right.
Oh, you want to support, maybe,economic policies that are not
like Milton Friedman butbasically like a very classical
liberal model of economics.
You don't want free trade.
You think that some sort ofgovernment planning actually is

(08:32):
helpful to the economy?
Oh, you're woke right.
And I think that Father Jasonand I mentioned this to Anthony
in our phone call that we had onSunday.
I said well, father Jason evenindicated in this interview that
he thought that there were hugeproblems with oligarchs in
Ukraine, to where a lot of theindustries in Ukraine should
continue to be ran and owned bythe Ukrainian government, so it

(08:53):
doesn't go into the hands ofoligarchs.
That is something that James,james Lindsay himself would
frame as woke right.
I mean, I would like to chalkthis up to and forgive me for
using this term, but likeboomerisms, to where obviously
Father Jason and Matt are alittle bit younger than the
boomer generation.
Basically, this idea ofsomebody who is a bit less

(09:22):
involved in internet culture andsometimes they use terms
incorrectly and woke rightdefinitely is a term which I
believe here is just beingcompletely misconstrued and it's
being more so used as a slurthan it is as an actual basis
for debate, because I commentedthis on the original Pines to
the Quintus interview.
I said well, when you said wokeright, you said woke right is
against the principles ofChristendom.

(09:43):
I said well, isn't JamesLindsay the guy who is an
atheist, individualist?
Enlightenment LARPer?

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Rob, pull up James Lindsay's speech, the screenshot
I sent you of James Lindsaywhere he says thinking about
becoming, pretending to be aChristian.
So James Lindsay saw thiscoming.
Now his biggest fear is somekind of Christian nationalism
uprising right.
He sees that the youngergeneration specifically is fed

(10:12):
up with liberalism in general tobe Christian.
So I can tell Christians howbad they are at being Christian
and they'll have to listen to me.
Now most of the conversations Ihave seen James involved in are
in Christian areas, tellingChristians how they're not

(10:34):
acting Christian he like he'sbecause people underestimate
this guy and they I've seenpeople say James Lindsay, he's
an idiot, he's stupid.
This guy is not stupid by anystretch of the imagination.
He has studied Marxism verythoroughly.
He's well known for gettingthese papers submitted.
I wish I knew the exact thingthat he did, but he got some

(10:59):
papers submitted through peerreview or something and they
were just literally like MeinKampf that he changed a few of
the words in, but he submittedmind comp the communist
manifesto the communistmanifesto, things like that,
that he got submitted throughpeer review and it got passed
through and stuff.
The guy understands how howmarxism works and he understands

(11:19):
that accuse others of what youyourself are doing is like
marxism 101.
It's like Saul Alinsky's rulesfor radicals, you know, and
that's what it seems like he isdoing in my mind.
He's not a dumb guy.
He knows exactly what he'sdoing.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
Yeah, rob, could you share what I just presented real
quick?
Yeah, so this is a chart thathe made, but what you see is
things like one state religion,christianity, collectivists.
Once more, government powerbelieves power matters more than

(11:54):
truth.
Obsessed with racial identity,hates Jews the things that James
Lindsay thinks is woke right.
Obviously there's certainthings which are more disputed
in Catholic circles, butsomething like one state
religion.
I mean, come on, he basicallyapplies this to anybody of the
Christian nationalists whosimply want a return to

(12:17):
basically what everyone prior toabout 75 years thought about
authority of Christianity ingovernment.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Even him showing blames women on the right Now,
look, I, I understand like themanosphere has gotten a little
out of control and they're, youknow, a bit brash, but I think
the younger generation sees howmuch feminism has rotted our
culture.
Like so many of these things,if you break down each one,
there's a reason.
People are really upset withthem.

(12:46):
This isn't this isn't just athrowaway issue where you could
just just say, oh, blames women,that's, that's the woke right
are a lot different than theywere five years ago and I think
people are shocked by them.

(13:07):
But the younger generation hasnot been subjected to the same
propaganda that the oldergenerations have and I think
that's you know.
A lot of their stories arelosing their power, exactly.
So, all right, do you want tojust get into playing some of
the clips and we'll go throughit and we'll break down.
So the first one, right off thebat, is him framing

(13:28):
Judeo-Christian, which I thinkis hugely problematic right off
the bat.
So we'll play that clip realquick.

Speaker 4 (13:35):
You know, prior to Trump being elected, it was a
lot easier, I think, for groupcohesion, when we defined
ourselves perhaps not by what wewere, but by what we were
against.
We're against the left, we'reagainst wokeism.
Now that Trump and theadministration have come to
power, I'm noticing a lot ofinfighting and trying to figure

(13:58):
out who we are.
It feels like that's a lot moredifficult.
Figuring out what we are andwhat we're about is actually a
more difficult thing than justdefining yourself by what you're
against.
Yes, and so right now, it seemslike the right to use political
language is trying to figurethat out.
What are you seeing?

Speaker 5 (14:14):
Well, I see that as reflected in the church's
history.
You know, we had, you know, inthe first few centuries we had
numerous, you know, bishops andauthorities, theologians,
condemning and attacking variousheresies, irenaeus of Lyon,
attacking Gnosticism and theJudaizing heresy of the first
and second century, and thereare lots of Orthodox writers

(14:35):
denouncing what they're against.
But only by the year 325, andactually by 380, does the church
put forth kind of of a symbolof faith, as it's called the,
the creed as it's translated,and this is what we're for, you
know.
So it took, uh, it took overthree centuries for the church
to be able to do that, and I Isee that as well as is as our

(14:57):
society and our culture um, kindof implode seeing that it, it
removed the, the pillars of, ofthe Judeo Christian foundation,
of our, of our society.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
We have a lot of touch on that real quick,
because even that, framing it asJudeo Christian, I really do
see this as a problem.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
This is, this is crazy talk to say he's employing
the that the Nicene Creed isJudeo-Christian.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
It's fundamentally different.
I think you could really telljust by going back to Matt
Fradd's conversation with whatwas his name Prager, when they
had that conversation aboutpornography, like a lot of
people think, because the Jewshave the old Testament, that
they're you know that it's likethey have half of our religion,

(15:49):
so they have the same.
They have the same moralfoundation that we do and they
absolutely do not.
And when you really get intowhat Matt talked about with
Dennis Prager in thatconversation, there's no such
thing to them as lust of theheart, of sins of the heart.
It's like action.
So it comes down to what Jesuswas actually upset with the

(16:09):
Pharisees about.
It's that they were findingways to skirt the rules so that
they could technically saythey're obeying the law but
completely missing the point ofthe law that was given.
So to say that the West isbuilt on these Judeo-Christian
pillars is just a flat out lie.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah, and I think it's a bit disingenuous.
Obviously not saying that.
I'm talking in itself,obviously not saying that Father
Jason intended this, but thisphrase Judeo-Christian, because
when we think of that term Judeo, we think of Judeo in terms of
contemporary Judaism, in termsof Judaism as we interact with

(16:48):
it now.
Judaism as we interact with itnow is not the same as,
essentially speaking, as SecondTemple Judaism or even Old
Testament Judaism.
There is a long history ofexplicit anti-Christian elements
within the moral theology,within the political theology
and with every other aspect oftheology within Judaism that is

(17:12):
meant to be something which isposited on the fundamental
postulate that they are againstChristianity.
So the term Judeo-Christian ifJudeo is taken in the completely
obvious sense that anyone isgoing to take it, it is a
complete contradiction in terms.
It makes absolutely no sense.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, if you even listen to like a Roy Schuman's
conversion story, he's like theyingrain it in your head if
you're growing up Jewish, thatlike you could become Buddhist,
you could become.
Like you could become buddhistyou could become.
Like you could become anything,they don't care, you could be
atheist, you could be buddhist,you could be.
You could even like there's nolimit to what religion you can

(17:53):
choose, as long as you don'tchoose jesus.
Like there is an implicit, likeuh, adversarial relationship
between christianity and judaism.
There's not modern Judaism andeven actually anything after
they get thrown out of Jerusalemin 70 AD.
There's this adversarialrelationship.

(18:14):
And I think that we've lost oursense of that in modern culture
because we have, after WorldWar II, you have this victim
narrative that comes out aboutwhat the Jews endured during
World War II, so that the churcheven changes its language
towards them and things likethat.

(18:35):
So we all kind of have adifferent understanding of that
adversarial relationship.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
Yeah, I mean, it's something which is fundamental
and I think this is somethingthat gets forgotten is there are
certain fundamental notions ofpeople, groups Like there are.
There's a sort of sort offounding myth that gets imbibed
in us as we grow up, like asAmericans.
There is a founding myth thatwe are imbibed with when it

(19:02):
comes to Judaic history,everything from very
conservative Jews to the mostliberal Jews.
The fact that Christians arethe booge is right-wing.
They are opposed to right-wing,they're opposed to collectivism

(19:29):
, they're opposed to any sort ofracial identity that is present
among white people.
These are things among the Jews, and I understand why they
think this way.
Obviously, I can understand whythey think this way, while also
disagreeing to where theattributes of Christians
specifically Catholic and white,european and right wing these

(19:51):
three are like completely inopposition to the very
fundamentals of modern Judaism.
So how can we even speak of aJudeo Christian civilization
that is going to retain our uh,the all three forms of those
identities?
The thing is we can't think ofone, which is the whole point.
No, the term is we just need todestroy all three of those

(20:12):
aspects, which is what he'ssupposed to know.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
They're.
They're like contradictory terms.
They really are.
And I and I it's look, I we dida video the other day where we
said like I have this intuitionthat this issue is going to be
super divisive going forward.
I kind of don't want to talkabout it that much, but every

(20:35):
time I turn around the freakingconversation is everywhere.
Douglas Murray just debatedDave Smith.
We're actually going to play aclip of Fuentes on the local
segment that I think is veryinteresting, but we'll, we'll
get into that over on locals,but the just, it's just
everywhere, right?
I just watched Catholicunscripted had father Maudsley
on to discuss the liturgy andthen the next day Gavin Ashton

(20:57):
then comes out and basicallylike refutes every single thing
that was said in that interview.
I think that this is going to bea very difficult issue going
forward.
Now, how we handle it.
It's like this very much has tonot be about a dislike or a
hatred of a people.
This very much has to be atheological issue for us.
I mean, this story goes back tothe Old Testament, from Cain

(21:22):
and Abel to Esau and Jacob, toevery parable Christ tells about
, even the, about the prodigalson, about it's.
The covenant goes to the younger.
You know the younger brother,the older brother gets jealous
and then the older brotherlashes out over it.
So I think if we're not awareof that and understand the

(21:45):
significance of it, it's goingto be a problem for us if we're
just naive to it.
And I see a lot of things goingon, even with, like Trent
Warren with the Phylos Project,and I see, right after Trent
does the Phylos Project thing, Isaw Matt wrote a thing on his
sub stack about a dialoguebetween a person who was being
accused of anti-Semitism and itseemed like a very concerted

(22:09):
effort at propagandizingCatholics and that that worried
me a lot.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
Yeah, I mean this is.
This is one of the centralissues of our times and, as you
mentioned, there are a lot ofCatholic figures, especially in
the generation, your guys'sgeneration, the generation older
than me.
A lot of these figures areconnected.
There are a bunch of connectedfigures who have a goal in mind

(22:35):
and a status quo to keep, andthis isn't just simply something
of a simply theological matter.
This isn't something which ismerely speculative.
This is very practical.
I mean for myself, father Jason.
He framed it in a very odd wayand we're going to get into this
a little bit later.
I'm assuming the way thatFather Jason framed it is, and

(22:56):
this is the way in which almostevery one of the philo-Semitic
propagandizers out there willframe.
It is Israel's right to defenditself on just war principles.
I obviously, more than most,agree with the right of a nation
to protect itself on just warprinciples, but the right of a
nation to protect itself on justwar principles does not somehow

(23:20):
extend to any sort of methodbeing appropriate, and there are
methods which Israel has usedwhich are objectively
inappropriate.
If somebody comes and tries tobreak into my house and harm my
family, I have the right todefend myself.
I don't have the right to go tohis apartment building, kill
his family and kill all thefamilies around him.
That's not a right that I haveto self-defense.

(23:40):
And I think it's veryunfortunate the way in which
this debate is being framed,because I think we could have a
great degree of agreement.
I do think that when we talkwith one another, one-on-one
between these two sides, if weframed it properly, if we
distilled the theses into clearways, I do think we could

(24:01):
actually have a lot of agreement.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
But unfortunately, a lot of current events and a lot
of politics ends up beingpropagandizing, whether
intentionally or unintentionallypeople who, once they kind of
get cued in on this topic, allthey see is Jews everywhere, and

(24:26):
it's just like you wind upseeing people get so obsessed
with it and then they startsaying horrific things, and I
think these guys are generallyworried about violence, like
they're worried about seeinganother pogrom type incident
happening.
And I'm not saying their fearsare completely unjustified.
I'm not saying their theirfears are completely unjustified

(24:46):
.
I'm not saying any of that.
My concern is by byparticipating in the propaganda
on behalf of Israel, are youthen ignoring the actual problem
that is going to be our issue,which would be the older brother
coming at us down the line?
So let's, let's get into thefather Jason.
Clip the next clip.
It's a.

(25:06):
This is where they actuallydiscussed the woke right, okay?

Speaker 4 (25:13):
the woke left, at least in the last decade.
But people are beginning to usea new phrase the woke right.
What is that?
What's your?

Speaker 5 (25:20):
opinion of it.
Yeah, again, a lot of this isthe movement out of that Toho
and Bogo, out of formlessnessand wasteland.
Everything in scripture is thearchetype for understanding
ourselves and our society, and Isee this with uh, the woke
right as well, as I call it.

(25:41):
What is that?
What does that mean it?

Speaker 2 (25:43):
it's uh, people who kind of they just said as I call
it.
He said the woke right as Icall it, which is like I was
like wait, what is going on here?
As almost nobody else.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
Nobody else calls it.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
It's not him attempting to explain what other
people are saying about the wayhe's like well, the woke right,
as I call it, and I'm like whatthe heck is going on here.

Speaker 5 (26:06):
I'll put it this way.
You know, the Egyptian, theIsraelites, they left Egypt and
they get their freedom, they'refree from the house of slavery,
and what do they do?
They worship a golden calf.
They worship the golden calf,which is worshipped by the house
, but they are infected by theold idols still, and that is,

(26:45):
their positions are emotive andthey're not based on faith and
reason, and so they're againstthings, just like the anger of
the old leftists.
They're angry, they're againstpatriarchy, they're against the
institution of the old leftists.
You know, they're angry,they're against patriarchy,
they're against the institutionof institutional Christianity,
they're against all this.
What are you for?
Well, we don't know.
And so what we have in the wokeright are people who are

(27:08):
against the evils of the left.
Okay, and they're not for theprinciples that formed
Christendom.
And so you see this, forexample, with regard to Israel
and this insurgent anti-Semitism.
You see this with regard toUkraine, and both of which are

(27:33):
against right reason, both ofwhich are against uh, you know,
just war theory, which isreasonable, both of which are
there's more.

Speaker 3 (27:42):
I don't know what that first part is supposed to
mean.
Uh, people who do thingsemotively and are not based on
faith and right reason.
I mean it isn't that like everysingle republican member of
congress right now?
Isn't that, god forbid?
Often the president himself?
I mean, describing things insuch a manner does not lead to

(28:05):
understanding, but is a meredisputation about words causing
conflict.
It's just very unfortunate thatthis type of way of defining it
I don't even know what this issupposed to mean James Lindsay
falls under this definition.
Who invented the term for otherpeople?
It's unfortunate.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
I'm finding like a big thing where anybody that
supports Israel also supportsUkraine, which is troubling to
me, like I saw Douglas Murraywith the Dave Smith debate, him
supporting Ukraine and Israel.
And I think it has to do withIsrael gets attacked on October

(28:42):
7th and they have a right todefend themselves.
Ukraine gets invaded by Russiaand they have a right to defend
themselves.
I think that's where the rootsof it come.
The difference is I see Ukraineas the actual victim of not
just Russia but America and NATO.
Like they're kind of just thesepawns that are being used.
I don't think, I don't thinkUkraine did anything to
instigate this war.

(29:02):
I do think they have a right todefend against the, an
incursion by another country,things like that, but I just
think they're pawns and they'rejust they're fighting.
They're they're basically theway the U?
S is fighting its proxy waragainst Russia.
So I kind of forgive him forhis Russia, his Ukraine stance,
but the idea that Israel isfighting under just war theory.

(29:25):
So we have a, we have a Thomaswith us.
I had Rob pull up a few quotesby St Thomas on just war and I
want I want to kind of gothrough this so people
understand that there is nopossible way you could say
Israel is fighting under justwar principle like none.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
You want them now.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
Yeah, let's pull them up, let's just go through them.
So, um, but war is contrary.
Hold on, hold, on, hold onStart with.
I answered that.
Okay, I answered that in orderfor a war to be just, three
things are necessary.
First, the authority of thesovereign by whose command the
war is to be waged.

(30:05):
For it is not the business of aprivate individual to declare
war because he can seek for theredress of his rights from the
tribunal of his superior.
Moreover, it is not thebusiness of a private individual
to summon together the people,which has to be done in wartime.
And as the care of thecommonweal is committed to those
who are in authority, it istheir business to watch over the

(30:25):
commonweal of the city, kingdomor province.
You have to go down to whereit's all right.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
Yeah.
So I mean, the first one islike basically, like I can't
declare war on, like WashingtonDC or something I feel like it
would have to be somebody.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
Proper parties have to be the ones to declare the
war.
A just cause is required,namely that those who are
attacked should be attackedbecause they deserve it on
account of some fault.
Wherefore, augustine says ajust war is wont to be described

(31:07):
as one that avenges wrongs.
When a nation or state has tobe punished for refusing to make
amends for the wrongs inflictedby its subjects or to restore
what has been seized unjustly,this is where it gets tricky,
because people want to act like.
This war started on October 7thbut the whole state of Israel
coming into being, they seizedthat land unjustly in the
beginning.
Like, this land was seizedunjustly from the people that

(31:27):
were living there and itinvolved a genocide of the
people that lived there.
So, like, if you're going to goback to the roots of it, that's
where it starts.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yeah, I mean.
The first terrorists in theMiddle East were Jews, who were
terrorists against the BritishEmpire.
Those were the first terroristsin the Middle East.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
They invented the word bombing.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
Yeah, yeah.
Any terrorist group in theMiddle East who currently exists
is simply following the exampleof the Jews and what the Jews
did to the British.
Unfortunately, this wassomething continued after the
invention of the Israeli state.
And there's this idea becauseobviously we don't affirm that

(32:10):
Israel has a divine right to theland and it's kind of awkward
whether we talk about themhaving even a natural right.
There's some times in which wesay they don't have a natural
right and sometimes in which wedo speak of a right which is
like acquired.
So like, for example, if yourgreat grandfather stole the
house in which you live in,after a few generations it ends

(32:31):
up by the laws of inheritance,kind of saying like okay, well,
you can't really kick the familyout of the house.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Your grandfather did the laws of inheritance kind?

Speaker 3 (32:38):
of saying like okay, well, you can't really kick the
family out of the house, butwhen it came, yeah, exactly when
it comes to the founding of thestate of Israel, those
Palestinians and something StThomas is going to say in the
third section there is that theright intention.
So, for example, he brings upthe preservation of religion.
So, for example, he brings upthe preservation of religion.
So obviously we know that Islamis a false religion, but when

(33:19):
it comes to the judgment ofmoral acts we look at was to
defend those of the samereligion and those of the same
racial identity with themselvesor general cultural identity.
So, in the same way as maybe Iwould want to defend the British
from an invasion of foreignersand from the seizing of their
land, in the same way Egyptmight want to defend
Palestinians.
So, ironically, the most justwar which has been waged in the

(33:44):
Middle East since the 1940s hasbeen the war waged against
Israel by the coalition of Arabstates.
Now, something else that StThomas is going to bring up and
he brings this up constantly islike not only do you have to
have right intention, you alsohave to have a right manner of
operating.
There's obviously collateraldamage always in wars.

(34:04):
You can't have any war withoutcollateral.
But you can't do this assomething reckless.
You have to measure and try toreduce collateral damage as much
as you can, and Israel hasengaged in this war in a very
reckless way, and this issomething the church itself has
recognized.
This is something which FatherJason's superiors, His Holiness

(34:27):
Pope Francis, those who mostintimately know the situation in
Gaza, such as CardinalPizzabola, the Vatican Secretary
of State Parolin, Almosteverybody with any matter of
temporal say within the Vatican,within the church, both on

(34:48):
extrinsic basis of authority andintrinsic basis of authority,
anyone there has said about thiswar it is being unjustly done.
I don't get how somebody canchalk this up as being woke
right.
I mean, is Pope Francis wokeright?
Is Cardinal Parolin?

Speaker 2 (35:04):
woke right.
Cardinal Pizzabolo woke right.
It's completely insane.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
Israel actually has a term for how they wage these
military actions.
They call it mowing the grassand the idea is that basically,
once per generation, they waitfor a provocation to go into
Palestinian territories and mowthe grass, which is basically
military-aged men, and they dothis once a generation to keep

(35:32):
the Palestinians down, Armedforces down yeah.
And that's literally how theyplan these operations to go and
just wipe out a whole generationof young men.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
Can you think of another area in the world whose
average age is 18?
Why have you ever askedyourself why Gaza's average age
is 18?

Speaker 1 (35:53):
And it's always 18.
It's always that same averageage it's brutal.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
It's always that same average age.
It's brutal, it's barbaric.
Or suspension of belief inprimary reports, at least to
understand where other peopleare coming from who do give

(36:21):
credence to primary reporting onthe ground and to somehow not
to have the moderation not toaccuse that other person of
being an anti-Semite or anyother litany of charges that
they're going to level againstus.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Yeah, this is a good comment, though.
So the problem with beingpro-Palestine is you're herded
into the same category as thecommunists who are on college
campuses and supporting Hamasand stuff.
But just because some side getssomething right doesn't mean
you go against it, like I thinkthat's a big problem that we're
seeing in politics in generalright now.
It's like Trump will dosomething outrageous and

(37:02):
everybody sees the left go nutsand they think it must be good
because the left hates it.
But the left just hateseverything Trump does.
So there's going to be thingsthat you guys should stand your
ground on and be like this isawful what Trump is doing, you
know, like starting war withIran.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
I'll be happy, and I also, and I also think that we.
Another point that I wouldbring up to Father Jason is that
we can't understand this war inLibya, in any one of the wars
that we had in the region andthe reason for this and the
great Yemen.
What's so absurdly frustratingis look at the percentage of the
population of those nationsthat were Christian in 1940
versus today.
I mean, some of these countrieswere 20, 30% Christian and now
a lot of them compare to themajority 5%.

(38:06):
It's awful.
It's something which not onlydo my fellow religionists
Catholics and OrthodoxChristians and Protestants and
such not only my fellowreligionists being slaughtered
or being driven out of theirhomeland because of this, but
also my fellow countrymen aregoing into these countries and

(38:27):
dying and, generally speaking,there are a lot of people who a
lot of them are Muslims who aredying in these wars, who would
otherwise be alive if it wasn'tfor what was going on
Destabilized countries, starving, children from broken economies
.
It's just, it's brutal, it'sbarbaric.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
And this is just nice , because a lot of people think
I'm being soft on this issue.
Like I read an article aboutPaul Singer yesterday about some
of the investments he makes,paul Singer goes and he buys up
the debt of countries on theverge of collapse like pennies
on the dollar and then, when thecountry goes into default, he
fights a 15-year battle to makesure they pay those debts at

(39:09):
full price.
It's a 20-year battle that hegoes into and he impoverishes a
nation.
This is a way of doing businessfor certain people, like they
don't care about human sufferingwhatsoever.
There's absolutely no regardfor human life in in in, just
the suffering people from thisgroup will cause if it means

(39:32):
they're going to make money orit's going to expand their zion
project.
So it's like it should.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
It should also be noted that radical groups like
Hamas were actually largelysupported by Israel, both
largely financially, in order toderive opposition, the
Christian population away from,you know, from the Palestinian
cause and things like that.
So the I mean the, the, theIslamist kind of faction of

(39:59):
these nations are largelycreated by Israel.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
Yeah, I mean it's getting so.
The provocations are getting sobad.
I have a lot of verypro-Zionist family members and I
was talking with one of myfamily members and I was like
this is, I think, that PresidentTrump and much of his cabinet
has at least a more sobermindset about Iran, a war with

(40:25):
Iran?
I'm just telling you guys, ifyou look at the logistics behind
it, this isn't like Iraq.
I mean, iran is much bigger,much better equipped, much
larger population.
Iran is much bigger, much betterequipped, much larger
population, an army that'sactually loyal to the Ayatollah.
It's going to be somethingwhich effectively will bankrupt
us.
It's going to be somethingwhere a lot of American soldiers

(40:47):
will die.
Nobody wins by a war with Iran.
The best situation for everyoneexcept one group is diplomacy,
and even with that family member, when I was talking to them
about this, they were like ohyeah, you're absolutely right,
netanyahu's off his rocker withthe way in which he's going
about this.
The pro-war party within Israel, they're absolutely

(41:12):
bloodthirsty and they'rechomping at the bit for this
conflict, because Iran isbasically the last power in the
region.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
Okay, don't think this is wrong.
You say Iran and Iraq.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
I'm loving it.
Iran is the last power in theregion who is opposing the
Zionist state?

Speaker 2 (41:34):
You have to say it like George W Bush.
You have to say Iraqorge w bush.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
You have to say iraq it's, it's true, I mean their
proxies or whatever you want tocall them, those groups that
they fund.
They're really the only thornin the side of israel and the
only power which before likelook at 1990, how many powers
they there were that israel wasscared of.
Now the the only one left is iton?

Speaker 2 (41:56):
dude, it's funny that you're saying you had this, uh,
you know, a zionist familymember.
I had my, uh, I had my fatherover yesterday for uh, for palm
sunday, and trying to break my,my boomer dad, out of the pro,
pro zionist.
Uh, wait, wagner, if youpronounce ira, iraq, like that
again, the speech of George Bushwill come after you.

(42:18):
Having my father over, and justI know who my dad listens to.
My dad's listening to SeanHannity.
He's listening to what's hisname, glenn?

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Beck.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Not even Glenn Beck.
He's listening to Glenn Beck.
No, he's listening to the.
Oh man, what the heck is hisname?
He's another guy on Fox News.
He's on like Sundays orsomething.
He's a Jewish guy.
Oh man, why can't I think ofhis name?
Anyway, my dad Watches Fox Newsand I'm just like Do you have
any idea what you're sayingright now?

(42:52):
And I try to Just break him outof it a little bit and he's
just like he starts, like hestarted off kind of hearing me
out a little bit and then he waslike no, there's, there's
savages, those people over there.
You can't.
I'm like, oh man, you justthought about that.
That.
You just I don't know.
It's very hard to look at LevinMark Levin, that's who it is

(43:14):
Mark Levin.
Mark Levin, that's who it is, ohyeah, mark Levin, that's who my
dad's listening to.
Mark Levin and Hannity and allthose guys.
He was like a huge RushLimbaugh guy, my dad.
But it's just to get the oldergeneration.
You saw it even in the CatholicUnscripted thing that happened,
where Catherine and Mark are alittle younger, gavin's older.
He grows up, he's listening.

(43:35):
There's 200 World War II moviesa year put out from Hollywood.
It's insane.
These guys grow up watchingevery single thing, like every
movie every year.
The Oscars is a holocaust.
But even this year, in 2025,the two Oscar movies with the
Brutalist who's a concentrationcamp survivor, who comes to

(43:58):
America and he's gay, and allthis stuff.
Then the other one is withMacaulay Culkin's brother,
kieran Culkin, and him and hiscousin go to Poland to go to
Auschwitz and all this.
It's like this narrative isjust nonstop forced down our
throats, even in 2025.
But when you're coming rightout of World War II, it's so

(44:21):
much stronger and it's like theyget rid of Christian history in
schools and all they teach isHolocaust history and it's this
is just what it is.
It's so to get older guys tobreak from that narrative is
very, very difficult, and Ithink that I've seen the
conversation shift a lot in thelast two years since October 7th

(44:45):
.
I think Israel is severelylosing the propaganda war like
really, really badly.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
Majority of Americans now don't support Israel
unconditionally.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
The only group that does is 50 year old plus
republicans the rhinos.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
We're coming for you, crazy.
We're coming for you, rhinosbut what worries me?

Speaker 2 (45:06):
there's two things that worry me in that.
It's that one.
They're not going to lose thenarrative like the.
So you see this huge propagandapush, like all I see on twitter
is douglas murray is amazing ohmy goodness, douglas.
On Twitter is Douglas Murray'samazing.
Oh my goodness, douglasMurray's amazing.
It's like nonstop being pushedevery, every other tweet.
It's all I'm seeing.
But the other thing is there'seven an admission from Wagner's,

(45:27):
the guy who says Shay, shaywhen picking up his chain.

Speaker 3 (45:30):
I don't know what that means.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
I think it means thank you Probably.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
The other thing that worries me is there's this like
admission from even the TrumpWhite House that the, the, the
liberal economic order that wasset up after World War Two, is
is over and people are kind ofdone with that, that myth that
has held our culture up.
That has held our culture up,and when I see that I think they
need a new, huge event to starta huge new myth and narrative
to, to set up a new culture onand that way and to clarify for
the audience when we're talkingabout the, the myths surrounding

(46:11):
world war two, we're notnecessarily saying that every
event as purported isahistorical.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
Rather, what we're saying is that there's a certain
narrative of good guy, bad guythat gets played to where the
allies did everythingimmaculately and we were
fighting the whole time to endthe Holocaust and such like this
and such like this.

(46:41):
But really, obviously we knowfrom a reasonable study of
primary sources that this wholebig narrative of the Allies
being immaculate, we were doingthe whole thing to save the Jews
, we knew about it the wholetime, we were just trying to
save them.
We know that this is just nottrue at all and therefore the
sort of post-World War IIconsensus you know this ends up
being that you know, nationalistright wing, that's bad evil.

(47:06):
You know mustache man, heespoused all of this and what's
good is a sort of moderate left,socially liberal, pro Zionist
sort of ideology.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
You think about where the conservative movement is
today.
Think about who Trump is.
Trump is Bill Clinton from the90s.
Like there is no conservatismtoday.
Like what have we conserved?
We've conserved nothing.
Trump has a gay man with asurrogate child in his cabinet,
I mean, and they're like held up, like oh look, we're not gay,

(47:43):
like we're not homophobic.
It's like it's insane how muchthe overton window has shifted
over the past couple of yearsthis is brother.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
Wagner is a true.

Speaker 3 (47:55):
So true, he's real for that.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
All right, so let's play the rest of that clip.
I think we were like twominutes in.
Did you lose the place mark onit, rob?

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Sure did, but that's okay, I'll get it back.
Let's just see where we arehere.

Speaker 5 (48:17):
They get their freedom, they're free from the
house of slavery.
And what do they do?
They worship a golden calf,they worship the golden couch
and long.

Speaker 3 (48:26):
They hate Israel.

Speaker 5 (48:27):
Old slavery.
And so what we see with thewoke right are people who um
into the house, but they, they,they are infected by the old
idols still, and that is, uh,their positions are emotive and
they're not based on, uh, faithand reason, and so they're

(48:48):
against things, just like theanger of the old, the old
leftists, you know they're,they're, they're angry, they're,
they're against patriarchy,they're against the institution
of institutional Christianity,they're against all this.
What are you for?
Well, we don't know.
And so what we have in the wokeright are people who are
against the evils of the left,okay, and they're not for the

(49:13):
principles that formedChristendom, the principles that
formed Christendom.
And so you see this, forexample, with regard to Israel
and this insurgent anti-Semitism, you see this with regard to
Ukraine, and both of which areagainst right reason, both of
which are against just wartheory, which is reasonable,

(49:36):
both of which are againstcompassion and charity, which is
reasonable, both of which areagainst compassion and charity.
And so that's what I'm seeing.

Speaker 4 (49:42):
So people who you might accuse of being
anti-Semites or anti-Ukraine youmay not use that language, I
think would protest.
They would say, actually,anti-semitism is a word, sort of
like when people would use theword racism to shut down a
discussion.
I think that's what they feelwhen they're being told you're
an anti-Semite.

(50:02):
And I think they would alsohave their reasons for not
supporting Ukraine monetarilybut at the same time wouldn't
wish any harm upon them.
So what's wrong with that?

Speaker 5 (50:19):
time, wouldn't wish any harm upon them.
So what's wrong?
What's wrong with that?
Yeah, it is um.
I think the worst form ofcowardice and intellectual and
moral cowardice is uh didn't hejust mention something about the
other side not having charity,like?

Speaker 2 (50:30):
that's why I wanted you to keep playing a little bit
, because he's, he's, the.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
This cowardice line is really I'll back up a little
insert.

Speaker 5 (50:38):
Yeah, just backing up a drop, but just because what
he says here is outlandishartist is uh evacuating yourself
from the present moral fight ofour age and uh, you find
reasons to to evacuate yourselffrom those, uh, those causes
that are the causes that defineuh moral virtue in our day and

(51:00):
age.
And I think that with regard touh, you know, israel, with
regard to ukraine, um, there isa very clear case in in both,
both scenarios different zipcodes, but both same principle
applies is that the affrontedvictim has a right to use just

(51:24):
and equal force to repel theunjust aggressor once everything
else has been.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
So all right, there's a couple of things there.
Matt is framing that as adevil's advocate question and
trying to present the other sidepoint of view, but I do know
Matt is also concerned with thisissue, like you could tell he
is.
That's kind of why he's framingthe question that way.
Yeah, the idea that we are noton the side of Ukraineraine and

(51:57):
israel because of moralcowardice is shocking and
offensive it is.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
Yeah, it is it, it definitely it definitely is,
because it doesn't seem like,when it comes to those who are
for the war in israel, thatthey're being the ones who are
exposed, exposed, doxed, blocked, kicked off of different
websites, kicked out of college.

(52:24):
Their entire careers get ruined.
I mean, it's not those people.
It's actually quite easy.
It's one of the easiest thingsto do in the United States of
America, especially inconservative spheres, to be
pro-Israel.
Do in the united states ofamerica, especially in
conservative spheres, to bepro-israel.
So I just do not understand howum it can in any way be be
cowardly no, I think.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
I think it's the opposite zionist entity I think
it's the total opposite, likewe're even this conversation
we're having.
It's like you're risking youryoutube channel, yeah, yeah.
You're like I don't want to havethis conversation.
I feel like it's like a moralduty to have it, like my
conscience bothers me to nothave it and I'd have it a

(53:05):
different way if I could speakfreely and not have to worry
about any of those things.
But I also have to worry aboutbeing like we're at a point
where, if you're unwilling to belabeled with the accusation of
anti-Semitism, I don't know howyou're going to make it going
forward, because that's going tobe the first thing.
They lobby you and it's goingto get much worse and I think

(53:26):
that this is going to be wherethe persecution starts to get
riled up.
So if you're the one pushingthe propaganda for the Philos
Project, I think you are goingto enable the coming persecution
that will come againstCatholics, who have to stand
their ground on this, becausethis is insane what they are

(53:49):
doing, not just in the MiddleEast, but even just using
America as their guard dog to goand do their bidding throughout
the world.
It's really, it's prettyappalling.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
I think, something that I found to be the most
frustrating and this is ahabitual problem in parts of
this interview that are meant tooppose the woke right.
Woke right I found it to bemost frustrating and I guess
I'll phrase it like this there'sa sort of traditional teaching
of the spiritual authors thatwhen you make resolutions like
you want to make a spiritualresolution to overcome some vice
or to acquire some virtue, youneed to make that resolution

(54:27):
particular, have to say, oh well, I'm going to detest the world
in this way or in this way, andthen doing these things, you
have to be very specific,because a general sort of rebuke
is just kind of useless Ifyou're not pointing to
particular people, particularissues and particular solutions,

(54:49):
particular arguments againstthose positions.
You're just kind of doing whatwe normally phrase as virtue
signaling.
You're not actually trying toattack a particular position.
So I found to be so frustratingis these rebukes and
explanations and arguments areso general that, like I joked
earlier, I mean who are wetalking about?

(55:10):
Are we talking about JamesLindsay?
When you're describing the wokeright, I mean this describes a
bunch of people whoconventionally would not be
described as the woke right.
So when you stay ingeneralities, we're not able to
go forward in this conversationthat we need to have between
generations with respect andunderstanding.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
And the thing with the Ukraine war also.
I have to say I want nothingbut peace over there.
I want that war over.
I have a 19 old son and I donot want my son going to war in
Ukraine, like I'm sorry ifthat's cowardice.
No, I don't want my son goingover to go fight in Ukraine for
a war that America provoked,because America did provoke that

(55:48):
war.
America provoked Russia and nowUkraine I see as innocent
victims in this stupid chessgame that America and Russia
have been playing and it finallycame to head and they're the
ones suffering for it.
So no, I don't want my songoing over to fight in that war,
I'm sorry.
So I want peace at all costs.
I want to stop seeing the deathof so many young Ukrainian men

(56:10):
who've lost all chance at thenext generation, like you killed
so many people in this war.
There's an entire generation ofUkrainian men who will never
have families because somethingthat in russian men too in
russia too yeah, yeah

Speaker 3 (56:24):
something that father jason said correctly is that
this is a population game forrussia.
It absolutely is like theyrussia wants to.
They have a vested interest inincreasing their population due
to, uh, replacement.
This is absolutely true, and wealso need to consider the fact
that one of the effects of thiswar is really the mass slaughter

(56:44):
of an entire generation.
How are they supposed toreplace now?
I mean, is anybody going toimmigrate to Ukraine?
Is anybody going to immigrateto Russia?
Those aren't exactlyimmigration hotspots, for, you
know, maybe that's how we'llwe'll clean up the all the
immigrants which need to bebrought into Europe through

(57:08):
Israel's latest aggression.
Maybe we'll just send them toUkraine and Russia and we can
get all the population increasefrom the mass slaughter of young
men.
It's, it's just, it's, it'sheartbreaking, um, and it
doesn't need to be like this, uhit, it absolutely doesn't need
to be like this.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
So okay, so now, I want to go over to locals now
and I want to talk.
I want to play a uh, I want toplay a Fuentes clip.
Um, I think that he I thinkhe's an important person in this
conversation, like he really is.
Um, I know a lot of peopledon't like him, but he's saying
a lot of things that need to bediscussed, so we're gonna go

(57:43):
over there.
We're gonna talk about somesomething he said.
Um, also, me and rob are gonnafight it out to see how old your
kids should be before you lookat watch the passion uh, this
might be.
If you guys join locals, youmight see the next co-sleeping
fight.
So I would want to see this oneabout you guys, because me and
rob rob said something veryhurtful to me on twitter

(58:05):
yesterday I actually held backthe really good ones oh, I'm
sure you did.
I saw you boiling rob got homelate yesterday.
He was cranky, I was, so I wasnot inspired over twitter and I
go.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
Should I respond?
I got this will start a warright now.
Let me just let him cool down.
I know rob's in one of today.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
He was cranky, I was, so I was not inspired over
twitter and I go.
Should I respond that, god,this will start a war right now,
let me just let him cool down.
I know rob's in one of hismelancholic thumbs, so just let
him let him do his thing.
So, all right, so we're gonnago over to locals.
Uh, christian, you're gonnahang, still right?
Yep, okay, awesome, all right,guys, if you are not a local
subscriber, please come overthere.
That's where we have the actualconversations that we can't
have over on youtube.
Matt, father jason, we love youguys.

(58:37):
Actually, what I, what I do,what I did, I actually uh,
donated to, uh, holy protectionshrineorg, which is father
jason's trying to build a marionshrine.
So I I went on his site and Idonated to it.
I think that is actually theway out of all of these
different disagreements thatwe're all having between each

(58:59):
other.
It's just run to Our Lady andhe's trying to build a shrine to
Our Lady and I want to helpthat happen in any way possible.
I have no ill will towards Mattor Father Jason.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
I honestly think they're, except for Matt never
having him on.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
Oh, stop, that's fine .

Speaker 1 (59:14):
I don't see how join the club.

Speaker 3 (59:16):
Join the club, anthony he follows me on twitter
.
Now does he follow you ontwitter?

Speaker 2 (59:22):
yeah, matt follows me on twitter.
I mean matt, me and matt haveeach other's phone number.
I actually texted matt beforethis show and and sent him the
screenshot.
I said, listen, I I want tohandle this charitably, this
conversation after making mechange the thumbnail well,
because I knew the conversationwas actually going to be about.
Like you're.
Yeah, I knew we were going todiscuss just war, but I knew the

(59:43):
main conversation was going tobe about woke right.
So rob originally didn't watchthe interview, right, no, I
didn't.
So he heard me talking about itwith him.
I was like talking about thejust war stuff and I think rob
thought that's where theconversation was going to mainly
be.
But but I thought woke rightwas more of more important of an
issue for people to understandwhat the origins of that term is
.
Who's the one spouting it, andnot just that.

(01:00:05):
I mean, if you see the peoplebacking it, you want to pull up
some of Abby's tweets, I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
I actually have them pulled up.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
It's some of the most heinous stuff I've ever seen.
Like Christian Zionism is evilguys.
I'm sorry, it just is like thechristian zionists.
The palestinian society cheersdead israeli babies.
I don't care if their childrendie.
They deserve like, I'm afraidto read this on air.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
Well, I mean you're it's, it's, it's pro-zionism, so
it should be fine to read onthere yeah, yeah, you don't care
about that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
They deserve to watch .

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
I mean change the Palestinian to you know and the
opposite to the opposite.
I mean, guys, I hate to playthat game with you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
If you're listening on audio.
I'm sorry I won't even read therest of that, because it's
something so heinous thatthey'll tag your video on there
are no civilians in gaza.
Hamas has drafted everyone downto the newest babies, they
rejoice and the children theyshove into the line of fire die
because it's their most powerfulweapon again, like it's just
it's just so crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
The 1.2k likes to 6.2k replies is insane on that
ratio.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
look, and even the fact that matt Matt's comments
on his video got 9 to 1 ratioagainst is a telling sign that I
don't think this is an easy.
I see the tide shifting on thisissue.
Like I said, I have absolutelyno ill will towards either of
those guys.

(01:01:33):
If they ever want to have aconversation privately, I would
absolutely be open to it.
Same thing we're going to jumpover to the other side guys.

Speaker 5 (01:01:37):
They ever want to have a conversation privately.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
I would absolutely be open to it.
Yeah, same thing.
So, all right, we're going tojump over to the other side.
Guys, join us over there.
If you guys aren't localsubscribers, you're missing out
on the best part of the show.
Rob, take us out.
Okay, I'm just going to removesubscribe to traditional Thomas
on YouTube.
Scholastic Answers Not yeah,yeah, yeah, I'm mixing it up.

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
Yeah, don't send them in there.
Yeah, don't send them in there.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
Screw you, christian.
Yeah, traditional Thomas' nextchannel Scholastic Answers.
Christian's channel.
Subscribe to both of those.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
We'll see you guys over at Locals.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Okay, give me just a second to remove these Wrong
Thomas Dan wrong tone is thatokay, we're just on locals are
we all?
We're on locals now yeah, we'reon locals I want to bring up
okay optical, optical out, nomore optical now okay.
So right off the bat I have tosay to todd, todd, todd's, like
I was where anthony was two ago.
Now I'm starting to realize allthis stuff is true.

(01:02:38):
No, todd, I'm where you are.
I promise I'm trying to.
This goes very much into theNick clip we're going to play,
because Nick is kind of losinghis mind right now because he
thinks there's Nick Fuentes,nick Fuentes, he thinks there's

(01:02:59):
controlled opposition in wherethe conversation is allowed to
go right now.
So he's seeing Martyr Maid andDave Smith and a lot of guys,
even like Tim Pool.
They're the ones kind ofsetting the new parameters of
the conversation and he's got agood point like he's not wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
These guys are so like yeah, but murder made
started years ago with his veryfirst series absolutely, and but
today martyr may put out a substack like the crying
anti-semitism and also likedave's.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
Dave smith still is like like no, no, no, israel has
a right to exist.
They have a right to defendthemselves.
I'm just saying, like he'sright about the conversation
having like these are theacceptable parameters to speak
about this stuff on.
But alright, let's just playthis clip and then we'll go from
there.

Speaker 6 (01:03:57):
I smell a psyop, I detect I'm sensing a disturbance
.
There is a major effortunderway to undercut the mass
awakening of the people, ofAmericans, about Israel, race,
jewish power, all these thingsthat years ago were totally

(01:04:20):
taboo.
People that discussed them wereradioactive, as you know, there
is a mass awakening happening,millions and millions of people,
I think largely thanks toTikTok and thanks to X and the
liberalization of both of thoseplatforms, as well as events
October 7th and many of the liesfrom the past 10 years starting

(01:04:41):
to crumble.
People are really discoveringthe truth and I've noticed just
today, but especially in thepast few weeks and months, there
seems to be a concerted,organized effort underway to
undercut the credibility of thepeople that are amplifying those
types of ideas People that aretalking about race, about Israel

(01:05:06):
, about Jewish power, in waysthat are not approved, and we
know what that means.
People that are talking aboutthese ideas which are called
politically incorrect or calledhateful, bigoted, racist,
anti-Semitic.
There is a concerted effortunderway to attack the
credibility of the peoplepushing those ideas and the

(01:05:29):
credibility of those ideasthemselves.
Simultaneously, there is aneffort underway to astroturf
people who sound like they'resaying what we're saying and are
approved, but are not actuallysaying what we're saying, and
what I mean by that is they havecorrectly identified that

(01:05:52):
someone like myself isindependent, outside control.
Someone like myself.
I'm a legitimate nationalist,legitimately questioning what is
considered unquestionable orundeniable Whether we should
support Israel, whether there issuch a thing as
Judeo-Christianity, whether weshould have Jewish people that

(01:06:13):
don't believe in Jesus, don'tlike Jesus, whether they should
be in power.
Questioning whether we shouldhave multiracialism.
Is that desirable, is itbeneficial, is it even workable?
You'll have someone like myselfwho is a legitimate alternative
to the system.
They attack my credibility andsimultaneously they're offering

(01:06:36):
up another option, which is anapproved option, and they do
their best to sound like they'resaying what I'm saying, but
they're not really.
They sound like they're sayingthe same thing and they're
promoted and elevated, butthey're only sounding like
they're saying it.
They're not actually saying it.
So they'll say well, we don'treally like that.

(01:06:58):
We give Israel foreign aid, butshould Israel exist?
Oh, absolutely.
And you know, are Jewish peoplein general, too, supportive of
Israel?
Well, no, we can't generalizeat all.
Should we live in a Christiancountry?
Should we have?

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
multiracialism, of course.
Okay, he's not wrong, they'renot saying the same thing.
He's saying and he's talkingabout some very important things
.
But I only go back to whenFrancis comes into the church
and he wants to get some thingsdone.
It's kind of incrementally done.

(01:07:33):
He doesn't just come in andstart throwing things out.
It's like when you want tochange the conversation, you
can't just say what Nick issaying, because you get flushed
out of the conversation, and youcan't just say what Nick is
saying because you get flushedout of the conversation and
nobody wants to talk about it.
It was like me trying to talkto my father yesterday, trying
to incrementally bring him overto my side, right.
So even tonight on our YouTubeshow, the things we were talking
about Nick would hear somethinglike that and he'd be like

(01:07:55):
these guys are not actuallysaying what I'm saying.
No, because we're trying to getpeople who have never heard
these ideas to start hearingthese ideas and come around to
see look, you have to starthaving the conversation
somewhere.
So I do think it's still goodthat Dave Smith is out there,
because the conversation iscompletely different now than it
was five years ago.
And, yeah, the parameters areset, but think about how

(01:08:18):
different they're set from wherethey were a few years back.

Speaker 3 (01:08:21):
Are set, but think about how different they're set
from where they were a few yearsback.
Well, I think it's a slightlydifferent question of whether
it's something which is apositive, which I do think that
somebody like, for example,tucker Carlson I mean Tucker
Carlson, his reach is huge, it'smassive, people don't realize
how massive his reach actuallyis or even somebody like Donald

(01:08:42):
Trump, we can say you know inmany ways, donald Trump, like
the image from 2016, where hewas holding up the gay pride
flag and it said like LGBT forTrump, yeah, no.
We can in many ways say thatthese individuals as individuals
, with their types of messages,are positive.
But for me personally, is thissomething which is like
astroturfed, like he's claiming?

(01:09:03):
Is this something which iscontrolled opposition?
I don't know.
Nick's bringing forwardcircumstantial evidence and such
, but I can't entirely be sureof whether this is something
which is really meant to pumpthe brakes on the.
The great awakening, you know,the, the great red pilling of,
of, you know, young menespecially.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
No, but if you even start the conversation with, hey
, let's not keep fundingIsrael's wars, that is a good
thing, like that is a good thing.
Like I, I understand, like his,his gripe that he, he's like,
like he's like, he wants to say,like israel has no right to
exist.
Now, I may agree with that, butthat's not where the that's not

(01:09:47):
how you can have thatconversation like you just can't
, like, it's not, nobody's goingto hear that.
So how about we start with?
And you're not, and it's notgoing to accomplish anything,
like you're not going to bringpeople around to your, to your,
to your line of thinking.
You're just going to getflushed out of the conversation
and relegated to the corner andeverybody's going to write you
off as a conspiracy theorist.

(01:10:07):
And I mean, they do.
They do, father maudsley, theydo it with nick, they do anybody
that even touches the holocaust.
That's it, you're out of theconversation but you do need
both.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
You need the people that feed them just a little to
to get them interested, but whenthey're ready you do need
people and you know how I feelabout neg yeah, yeah, you need
someone like that's not what I'msaying, I'm saying that
conversation, you know you, youneed both out there I think,
yeah, I mean, I think they'reboth, they're both integral to

(01:10:39):
like true Catholic action, like,for example, in some of the
Catholic action that I do inNorth Dakota.

Speaker 3 (01:10:47):
Like the actual politicians, you know, the
actual people who are public,like you know, involved directly
with the hands on power, thosepeople to say a lot of the
things that I, on the other hand, very publicly say, even in you

(01:11:07):
know, a more public environmentof discussions between various
different Republicans in thestate.
Like it's completely fine forme to say that thing because I
already have the label of like.
Okay, I'm sort of ideological,I have an end in mind, like I'm
a purist, like that's my role,I'm not running for public
office, like'd never run forpublic office but that's not my
role, that's not my job inCatholic action.
So, yeah, you do need both.

(01:11:29):
You need somebody, always kindof who is the reactionary
pushing right, and then you kindof need, you need the
trailblazers and then you needthe settlers.
Settlers are building thehouses and you know-.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
What kind of settlers Are wetalking about here?

Speaker 3 (01:11:42):
Well, not those kind of settlers.
And the trailblazers aredefinitely not Terrorists, but
Israeli terrorists.

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):
I think the trailblazers have shifted the
conversation Is what I'm saying.
I'm not just talking about Nick, I mean E Michael Jones.
He's like Persona non grata inthe Catholic world, but he's
been talking about this foryears and it got people to start
looking at the conversationdifferently.

(01:12:12):
Now you may not agree witheverything he says I definitely
don't agree with his take onliturgy and things like that but
these people are important tothe conversation because they do
shift the Overton window.
I feel like I think that thisawakening and even the fact that

(01:12:33):
these conversations are beinghad in public like I see some
kind of providence behind itthat it's like we would have
never even been able to havethese discussions a few years
back.
You would have just been shutout of the conversation
completely.
Even what we did on youtubetonight would have been unheard
of in 2020, 2019 you'd have lostyour channel yeah, yeah,
exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:12:53):
Um, that's actually like in the, in the sort of
sphere of catholic influencers.
It's kind of how I viewsomebody like matt frad.
I view matt frad kind kind oflike Tucker Carlson.
He's a mainstream voice who'skind of like Father Mike Schmitz
, kind of Bishop Aaron, althoughnot as much, but people that,
generally speaking, are going tobring forward.

(01:13:14):
They're going to say theabortion is wrong, they're going
to say the contraception iswrong, homosexuality is wrong.
But like I do have my issues,like I'm a reactionary in the
Catholic sphere in many ways, towhere I think that in certain
areas, you know, I want to pushright, like I want to push hard
right, and I think there's arole for me and I do think

(01:13:34):
there's a role for them as well.
Did I ever tell you, by the wayof my conversation with E
Michael Jones?

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
No, How'd that go?

Speaker 3 (01:13:43):
So I was in South Bend, I was at Notre Dame
speaking for a club.
It's kind of funny because,like in my speech too, it was
like I don't want to name theclub because you know, even
behind the locals window, youknow, word can get out, yeah.
But like I was in the speechspeech, I mean I was going off
on like how you know, sodomyshould be criminalized, and you

(01:14:05):
know I was.
I was being very reactionarywith how I spoke to these young
catholic men who were right-wingand politically interested and
somebody was like, oh, I knowyou, michael jones, like you got
, I could set up a breakfastwith you guys tomorrow.
So I I had breakfast with himthe next morning and the almost
the entire time he was going offand on and on and on about the

(01:14:26):
race thing and it was just awfulit was, it was terrible.
I would rather talk about thejews or it on, or like feminine,
well, literally anything butthe race thing.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
It was very he's got a funny take on that right, like
he's yeah, he, he doesn't.
I think he's writing a book onit now.
Like american identity and uh,guns, get your gun bible and
whatever you know.
But there is something to likewhite european identity there

(01:14:58):
just is it's.
You know, I mean, man, I'lltell you that some of the things
I saw, like we were talking theother day, it's like the, the
conversation about um.
As, as an, as an american, yourwhole goal is to where can I
make the most money withouthaving to drive four hours to be

(01:15:22):
near like I don't?
How do I, how do I live farenough away from these people
without having to drive fourhours to work?
Because it's I am in blackcommunities?

Speaker 3 (01:15:33):
yeah, have I told you about the, the county that I
grew up in no, no, I think, Ithink I mentioned in public.
But I grew up in a county inMaryland it's called Carroll
County and when my parents movedfrom Baltimore County to
Carroll County, carroll Countywas like 98% white.
It's about an hour-ish awayfrom Baltimore, about an hour

(01:15:56):
and a half away from DC.
What's funny is the reason itwas so white is because a all of
the like, a lot of the peoplethere, like you would expect it
to be, you know, like farmersand stuff like that A lot of the
people there were white collar.
They all worked in DC andBaltimore but didn't want to
live near DC and Baltimore.
So they bought an expensivehouse in Carroll County and
that's how it stayed almostentirely white, uh, while while

(01:16:18):
also like having a having a sortof middle, middle, middle upper
class culture to it.
But yeah, I mean the entirestory of me, my upbringing, is
basically, yeah, I'm the productof white flight.
A lot of my family lived inBaltimore back before the civil
rights era and it was a nicecity to live in.
And the civil rights erahappens, white flight happens,

(01:16:57):
black people moved in and theylamented a lot of the fact that
I knew who were deployed intoBaltimore during the Freddie
Gray riots, to put down, youknow, put down the riots.
That's not something which isshould be normal for us.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
I live on Long Island , which is a suburb of New York
City.
I work in the city, I work inthe Bronx, I work in Queens, I
work in Brooklyn.
My family was from Ozone Park,which is like South Queens, it's
like where all the mob moviesare from.
It's like ozone park was anItalian neighborhood in Queens.
It was like that's where youremember when the kid, the kid

(01:17:32):
got in trouble for the hatecrime.
The black kid came into theneighborhood and he beat him up.
Like while he was beating himup he used the N word and they
put this kid in prison.
Like he got because it was ahate crime Cause he threw the N
word.
Like the black kid was robbingcars in the neighborhood and he
caught the kid robbing a car andhe beat the crap out of him and
dropped the N word when he wasdoing it and they drew the kid
in prison for like 25 yearsbecause of it, hit him with a

(01:17:54):
hate crime.
So my family too moved out ofthe city, got the hell away from
them, had to, had to get out ofthe city.
Now my commute to work is atwo-hour ride home every day.
It's crazy, because this isthis.
Is it really in new york it was.
Robert moses started buildingprojects so he built the highway
system and he made parkways sothat you couldn't get, like

(01:18:14):
buses, under the bridges, sothat people from the city
couldn't bus out to long island.
He built all these parkways allover long island so they
couldn't get the riffraff fromthe city to come to Long Island
so you could go and enjoy theLong Island beaches without the
riffraff from the city and stuff.
But it just progressively youhad to go further and further
away because things just keep.
It's just crazy the wholedynamic.

Speaker 3 (01:18:35):
I can't even conceive .
Conceive honestly, like I, Ihave lost the consciousness, as
an american, of thinking of anice place as anything but like
being far away from a city.
Yeah, that's, that's whathappened.
It happened with my, my uh, myuh grandparents on the other
side.
They moved to a place you knowabout half an hour away from the

(01:18:57):
city to get away from it, andit was nice.
And then, you know, as timewent, on.

Speaker 4 (01:19:04):
It began another half an hour away and it's like now.

Speaker 3 (01:19:08):
you know, I grew up.
When I was growing up, as Isaid, it was 98% white.
Now it's like 85% white and youknow the the creep is starting
to happen.
And what's next for?

Speaker 2 (01:19:28):
I'm next generation is going to move even further
out.
I made just a four-hour jump inone go.
So true, but but there is also,especially after covid, with
all the cities being on firelike that, there was a mass
migration of white people movingto rural america because they
were like I gotta get the hellaway from this stuff.
My cousin lives down inkentucky now and he told me he's
like everybody in his community, is a transplant, like his
entire FSSP parish are peoplefrom other parts of the country

(01:19:48):
who came to Kentucky to escapethe mayhem in the cities, and
they're all just like.
They all had this like innercalling from God to get the hell
away from the cities, becausethey sensed something was coming
.
You know, which scares mebecause I haven't gotten out of
here yet yeah, I mean it's it'ssame here.

Speaker 3 (01:20:04):
I I don't, I don't live in a like uh, I live like
45 minutes away from charlotte,but it's like even there was a
uh, you know individual whohappened to.
You know, I have cameras aroundthe property and such.
I saw an individual walkingthrough my yard of of that, uh,
of that demographic, and youknow I have.

Speaker 5 (01:20:25):
I have?

Speaker 3 (01:20:25):
uh, I have a pregnant wife, I have two kids, it's um
you know I can't do that now, uh, but I mean, uh, it's like, uh,
that that's always in the backof my mind.
I mean if it was a normal whiteguy and walking through my yard
I probably would look weird butit wouldn't bother me.

(01:20:47):
But now it's like, okay, well,put a fence in.
Do I move?
What the heck am I supposed todo?

Speaker 2 (01:20:54):
How old are you kids?

Speaker 3 (01:20:56):
So my son is three and a half about to turn four
and my daughter just turned two,and then my wife is due and a
half about to turn four and mydaughter just turned two, and
then my wife is due in.

Speaker 2 (01:21:05):
August.
Okay, Now Rob, how old isMaddie now?
Maddie's six, maddie's six.
Okay, so the discussion.
We're going to shift gears alittle bit.
So the discussion.
I just posed the question howold should your kids be before
you let them watch the passion?
And should it be different?
For oh, let me just seesomething, let me hold on guys.

(01:21:26):
Oh, father jason said he'd comeon with us.
Father jason said he'll come onwith us did he message you on
twitter or something?
No, he texted me, and he textedme Father Jason's number.

Speaker 1 (01:21:40):
Oh, Matt did Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:21:47):
I'm sorry guys.

Speaker 1 (01:21:48):
Just give me a sec here.
While you text back.
Someone says if Christian everhas a defensive gun, use.
This clip will be played at thetrial.

Speaker 3 (01:21:59):
I know, I know which is.
This is why I hesitate.
I know I know which is uh, youknow, this is why I hesitate.
My uh, you know, you know.
You know how those, uh, thosepublic uh prosecutors are.
They don't find anything tonail a white boy on a defense
charge.

Speaker 1 (01:22:14):
Yeah, if I decided to carry a 10 millimeter instead
of nine millimeter, well then,I'm screwed.

Speaker 3 (01:22:19):
So if I text, you, delete the stream you know, it's
stream.

Speaker 2 (01:22:24):
Okay, so I just met Father Jason Sharon and I think
we're going to get him on.

Speaker 1 (01:22:28):
You just met him, you just texted him.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
Yeah, like Matt introduced me to him.
Now I posed a question onTwitter how old do you think
your kids should be before youlet them watch the Passion, and
should it be different for boysand girls?
Rob had an interesting takewhich I didn't even consider,
and then the so, rob, throw,throw your take out because I

(01:22:51):
thought it was interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:22:51):
I didn't consider it, but go ahead and throw yours so
I guess first off I would say,yeah, I mean, you got to use
prudence right, and it's goingto vary by kid, but my general
rule of thumb is like if yourkid is old enough or capable of
committing mortal sin, theyshould also be old enough to

(01:23:12):
understand what that sin does toChrist.
Right, that's kind of like mygeneral rule.
If I think my son is able tocommit mortal sin, he should see
in the most accurate way wehave possible of really what
that sin cost Christ and reallythen see how much Christ loves

(01:23:36):
him, because that's really whatit is in the end and I don't
think you can really understandthat love unless you really
understand the cost of sin sorob originally texted uh me
before we even had, before Ieven shouted out on twitter.

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
The reason I shouted out on twitter?
Because rob said I think I'mgonna let maddie watch the
passion this year and my initialinstinct was might want to wait
till the age of reason.

Speaker 1 (01:23:58):
Um, because that, and that's just because that's what
I chose to do, but that's notdoesn't mean I'm right, it just
that's what I chose to do mythinking is that he, he's not
like yeah, he's not seven, right, so he hasn't gone through
confession and communion, but II think he's at the age of
reason for him personally yeah,you'll know your own son for
sure, right like you, you, youdo know if your own son is

(01:24:21):
capable when he does somethingwrong.
I see, once he realizes right,once it clicks in his head, I I
can see how much he despiseswhat he did.
And it's not because even like,if you know, I'll see that hit
him before I even tell him likeI'm upset at you or I'm
disappointed in you, I see itjust hit him by itself and I'm

(01:24:42):
like, well, I'm pretty sure thatmeans he's, he's, he's at that
age of reason.
Then so.

Speaker 2 (01:24:47):
So my son, I let him watch it at seven, but I also
told my son there was no SantaClaus at six.
You know, like my son waspretty advanced where I could
tell him stuff and like he wasvery but my daughters I let my
older daughter watch it when shewas 10 because I kind of knew
she wasn't ready for it, andeven when she watched it at 10
she had horrible nightmares.

Speaker 3 (01:25:09):
She could be saying women are less rational yeah,
less rational, more sensitivethat is, that is a distinctively
feminine uh trait, though, andI think that's something
important in in raisingdaughters.
Um, like I mean that, that Ithink that's something important
in raising daughters.
I mean that's not even like, oh, like my like.
We're not in the public sphere,really in the public sphere now
.

Speaker 2 (01:25:30):
We're kind of behind the yeah well, that's why I
figured this out.

Speaker 3 (01:25:31):
Yeah, it's not me saying like oh base, you know,
like women defective in, well,defective is kind of a.

Speaker 2 (01:25:40):
That's in well.

Speaker 5 (01:25:40):
Defective is kind of a bad word putting it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:41):
You know less apt, less ordered, towards thinking
or reasoning in this way.
But yeah, I think for mepersonally, I'm very convinced
from my study of the traditionthat when it comes to proper
prayer and proper meditationthat, just like in any other

(01:26:02):
sphere of knowledge, we startwith the sort of material and
sensible and imaginative faculty.
We start there by forming animage and then from forming an
image we're able to reason fromthere to think of the
significance of that thing.
We're not like angels, where wejust reason in a purely

(01:26:23):
spiritual or immaterial way.
So I think, with my kids, oncethey get to the age in which
they are going to be able to,and be obliged to, meditate on
the passion, then they're goingto need to be able to form those
images of the passion.
That's obviously going to comethrough things like the crucifix

(01:26:44):
but it's going to, I think,come in a more efficacious way
through watching something likethe Passion of Christ.
My parents we had a movie.
It was called the Miracle Maker.
It was kind of like a kiddishversion of the events of Holy
Week, a kiddish version of um ofthe events of Holy week.

(01:27:06):
And uh, we, we watched thatfrom you know before, uh,
probably, uh, since I was born,we were watching that every
single uh good Friday.
So I, I do have um, uh for me,like there was something like
that in which I was able to likein my own way there's a, a,
there's a, there's a legopassion that's oh my goodness so
if you have like afour-year-old, and you want to
introduce them to it yeah, well,my three-year-old.

(01:27:29):
My three-year-old's an autist,so my three-year-old is like
boiling pasta at three years old, so he's, I don't know what to
do with him, man.

Speaker 1 (01:27:41):
My six-year-old likes to lecture me on black holes.
Strange matter quarks graviton.

Speaker 2 (01:27:51):
Jason's 11-year-old tells him Jason made a joke to
his family the other day.
He's like, yeah, we didn't landon the moon.
His son goes that's what I'mtalking about.
It's awesome to his family theother day.

Speaker 3 (01:28:02):
He's like, yeah, we didn't land on the moon His son
goes.

Speaker 2 (01:28:04):
That's what I'm talking about.
That kid's got good instincts,jay-z Good boy.
A few people pointed out thatOur Lady at Fatima showed hell
to Jacinta and Lucia andFrancisco.

Speaker 3 (01:28:20):
And Francisco was only what like six or five six
or seven, something like thatyeah, I've actually heard uh
more uh moderate, uh modernminded priests say use this as
an example of something aboutfatima that they don't believe
because they couldn't imaginethat a uh young child would be
shown images of hell.

(01:28:40):
But it's like you know, if aseven-year-old can go to hell
which a seven-year-old can go tohell, then certainly a
seven-year-old can meditate onthat possibility.

Speaker 2 (01:28:53):
I don't know why that would be a problem.
Well, I grew up in a housewhere, like, god's mercy was
extremely pronounced, and my momdid teach us about hell, though
, but she was like so cautiousabout it and like didn't want to
like.
But I found that just liketelling your children the truth,
and even from a young age, likeeven when they were five or six

(01:29:13):
, teaching them about mortal sin, and mortal sin separates us
from god's love, and that iswhere you just have eternal
separation from god, and that iswhat hell like really
explaining it to them whenthey're young.

Speaker 1 (01:29:23):
They grab it, maddie.
Uh, so we want.
I brought him to the thatstupid movie, uh, the minecraft
minecraft movie.
Yeah, yeah, you know exactlywhat I'm talking about yes, I've
run with the minecraft movieand after the movie he goes.
Dad is the guy who played stevecatholic.
I'm like no, not at all.

(01:29:43):
He goes.
We need to pray for him so hecan get to heaven he had almost
any like any new person.
He's like are they catholic?
I'm like you know, a lot oftimes it's no.
He's like we need to pray sothey can get to heaven.

Speaker 2 (01:29:56):
I'm like you are, I uh I have a habit of like if in
my car, if somebody comes tomind, anybody in my life, like
if I just have like, even like afriend from high school, like
whatever memory I pray a HailMary for that person.
Pray that when I get to heavenone day some random person that

(01:30:24):
I hadn't thought about in 20years comes to me and goes your
Hail Mary helped in my salvation.
Somehow I feel like that'sbuilding treasure up in heaven.

Speaker 3 (01:30:30):
That's awesome.
Yeah, I always try to becautious over the negative
affections that I have towardspeople and, specifically when I
understand that I have negativeaffections towards people, I try
to like immediately pray forthat individual and then pray

(01:30:50):
for my own soul, because it is.
It is like a, it's a spiritualcombat, it's a war out there and
so very easily, especially withthe devil prowls around.

Speaker 2 (01:31:00):
Yeah, especially with the internet.
Yeah, if he says, evenony'sprayers for others are somehow
self-serving well, that's ofcourse they are, and I just blew
all the treasure because I toldyou guys about it.
That's the way you're done.

Speaker 3 (01:31:16):
You're done.
I'm now.
What I'm gonna do is I'm gonnapray for all the people that
anthony prayed for.
So those people are going to Goup to me and be like thank you,
christian, for praying For me.
Anthony blew it.

Speaker 6 (01:31:25):
With me.
I needed you.

Speaker 2 (01:31:30):
Oh, man, yeah, the youth these days, man, I'll tell
you.

Speaker 3 (01:31:37):
It's Absolutely Scary .

Speaker 2 (01:31:40):
But that Paul Singer article I read it's it's
absolutely.
It's scary of that.
But that Paul Singer article Iread was the most devious thing
I've ever seen.
Like this guy goes around andhe'll just leave a country in
poverty while he makes money offthese things, these things and

(01:32:01):
that and what I.
What I would have wanted to sayon the main show about that is
just the the, the idea of makingmoney through others suffering.
It's like that.
It kind of goes back to like itgoes back to matt's conversation
about pornography.
Like in the, in their mindthere's no sins of the heart,
like it really doesn't matter.
Nick is doing a show aboutanthony traditional tomas.
Catholic youtube will send manypeople to hell.

(01:32:23):
Is that an old one?

Speaker 1 (01:32:27):
no, he did that today he did that today.

Speaker 2 (01:32:29):
Oh boy, um yeah, just the, the idea that there's like
sins of the heart and thingslike that.
They don't, they don't have anyconcept of that and that,
especially when you get into,like some of the talmudic stuff,
it's it's extremely like it.

Speaker 3 (01:32:44):
Read the read saint thomas's letter to margaret of
flanders.
It's a very jewish thing to offof the backs of other people
suffering, to profit off of that.
I mean, look at, look at theentire, and this is something I
bring to people and this issomething which was like
thunderously preached from thepulpits of catholic churches in
america in the 30s and 40s.

(01:33:05):
Um is the fact that, when itcomes to the system of usury,
when it comes to the system ofthe world banks, this is just
evil.
I mean, people are, and this isespecially more pronounced now
with the uh fact that peoplejust don't own anything.
Uh, people, people are being putinto debt slavery and this debt
slavery is being secured andfinanced and supported by the US

(01:33:29):
government and nobody like.
This is the thing.
If you talk to 90% of people onthe street, you're like okay,
well, either you are in debtslavery, you know somebody else
is in debt slavery.
Would you, would you support,you know, using the means of
governance in order to breakthis power of debt slavery over
so many different people?

(01:33:50):
And there are a lot of peopleout there, most people who would
.
This would be a bipartisanissue.
This would be something inwhich people would be very
supportive over, but apparentlythat's just something that never
gains traction.
I wonder why.

Speaker 2 (01:34:03):
It will never be allowed to.
And that's how the conversationstarted, with my dad actually
talking about usury and I wastrying to explain to him how
they have put us into slavery.
It's this whole systemThroughout all of Christian
history.
It was like it was completelyunheard of to like usury was one

(01:34:26):
of the mortal sins constantlypreached about.
If you look at Dante's DivineComedy, people that practice
usury are in the same circle ofhell as sodomites, because
you're trying to take somethinginfertile and make it fertile.
It's like it's one of the mostdemonic things in the world.
And if you get yourself intocrazy debt, with interest I mean

(01:34:48):
, you're punishing not justyourself but your family.
It is slavery, it's crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:34:54):
And the thing is, this is the reason why there is
such a concentration of wealthas well.
This is the reason why there issuch a concentration of wealth
as well, because I wasexplaining this to, actually, my
younger sister and I was like,look, you have to realize that
having true wealth isn't abouthaving money in the bank.
It's about owning things,properties that I own as quickly

(01:35:19):
as possible, without incurringmuch interest.
If I can pay off my car, if Ican own things and I don't have
liquid cash at hand, I am muchmore wealthy than it's funny.
The homeless man with fivebucks in his pocket is more
wealthy than half of Americans.

Speaker 1 (01:35:39):
Because we're all enslaved to debt.

Speaker 2 (01:35:42):
Yeah, I have a $380,000 mortgage.
It's just my car payments andit's just crazy how much debt we
all have.

Speaker 3 (01:35:51):
Yeah, exactly, and I mean that's something that I've
been very conscious about withmyself and I've tried to talk
with many people about this.
But it's just so ingrained inthe system and especially
because a lot of people, we'vekind of lost this idea of
inheritance.
Like, when I get to a certainstage in life, I receive my

(01:36:13):
inheritance and that is the seedmoney of me being able to start
a family, buy the things that Ineed, own those things and then
over time, you know, I'mactually building wealth to
where now it's like every18-year-old in the country, just
because of the and it'sobviously not to, you know,
place blame on many of thepeople of like the, you know,

(01:36:36):
Gen X generation, because thisgoes back much further than that
.
It's like many of the18-year-olds.
It's just like what's the firstthing you do when you turn 18?
You get student loans.
Yeah, exactly, you get a carloan.
You know, when you want tostart a family, you get a
mortgage and almost nobody isactually, or even the worst
thing is, I've met so manypeople.
They have like they're rentingand they're renting these

(01:36:59):
apartments out for like two,three grand.

Speaker 2 (01:37:03):
They're renting these apartments out and just dumping
money, uh, into it, that's justnever gonna get back my father
was talking about doing areverse mortgage soon and I'm
like you're not even gonna leaveus your freaking house like are
you?

Speaker 6 (01:37:15):
kidding me, you're not gonna get a little got nine
kids.

Speaker 2 (01:37:20):
Got nine kids.
You're not gonna let us whackup a couple hundred grand after
you're gone.
What are you doing, bro?
Like it's just that mentality.

Speaker 5 (01:37:27):
It's like you said.

Speaker 2 (01:37:28):
Like my son is 19 now , and because I never got an
inheritance, like you're right,I should have had like a hundred
grand saved to give my son toget his life started.

Speaker 3 (01:37:37):
You know not when I die die when he turns, when he's
old enough to like get, get acareer going or something, and
now people are lucky if it'stheir grandparents, uh, because
the way in which likeinheritance work, like if you
get 10 grand from grandma whenshe dies, like that's considered
good.
But historically you know, uh,you know what the average
american's two-month wage liketwo months of wages is not

(01:38:00):
exactly like a massiveinheritance.
Historically and really theentire system is just disastrous
.
And the sort of free marketthinkers of the non-woke rights
I mean these people just have nolike.
You're talking about lackingcompassion.
I mean the most compassionatething you can do for your fellow

(01:38:20):
Americans is think about theway in which the Jewish bankers
have completely destroyed anentire nation by placing it into
debt slavery.
International banking has justruined the entire way in which
generations relate to oneanother, the entire ways in
which we're able to start ourfamilies and become independent,

(01:38:41):
not slaves to anyone else.

Speaker 2 (01:38:46):
Yeah, that's it.
My dad is cooked.
Don't worry, I straightened theright out with that last night.
You're out of your mind.
You're not going to get areverse mortgage.
You're moving in with me andselling your house.

Speaker 1 (01:38:54):
I guarantee you called someone about reverse
mortgages today I told him.

Speaker 2 (01:38:58):
I said you're would you selling your house, moving
in with me, and you're puttingthat money in my bank account.
You're not selling, you're notgoing at the reverse mortgage.
Are you out of your mind?

Speaker 3 (01:39:08):
like it's awful.
My, my dad, one time mentioneda reverse mortgage.
Like what?
What the like?
Why?
Why would you get a reversemortgage?
That's just like the onlypeople who you know.
The only people for whom thisis advantageous is bankers.
It's not advantageous for youraverage American.

Speaker 2 (01:39:26):
They wouldn't give it to you if it was in your
benefit.
They'd never do it if it was inyour benefit.

Speaker 3 (01:39:31):
That's true.
I mean, that's like, possiblyone of like that's one of the
most Jewish things to invent,like it takes an evil mind to
invent reverse mortgage.
An evil mind to invent reversemortgage like what?
Like what?
Who?
Who was thinking one time andis you know in his lair, you
know somewhere in new york city,you know the, the 50, 50th
floor of some, uh, skyscraper.
We know who is sitting backthinking and we're like oh, I

(01:39:52):
have a great idea.
What if we do this thing calledreverse mortgage?
You?

Speaker 2 (01:39:55):
got 10 years 10 years left to live, we'll reverse
your mortgage and we'll pay youto live in your house and then
we'll collect all the equity inyour house from doing it for you
and they know the equity.
In that I mean just in the lastsince I bought my house.
I think I've been in my house15 years.

Speaker 1 (01:40:10):
My house has more than doubled in value since I
bought it yeah, it's crazy, isgrowing old just realizing that
tyler durden was right abouteverything?

Speaker 2 (01:40:18):
everything you man, you're too young to know that
one.
Fight Club.

Speaker 3 (01:40:25):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, the main character in Fight
Club.
Yes, I've watched Fight Club.
That movie has a twist in it.
I've never had the plotexplained to me before I watched
it.
In the end I was just like whatthe heck?
Bruce Willis was dead.

Speaker 2 (01:40:40):
The whole time Get out of here and then like in the
end, you know, I was just likewhat, the heck wait, bruce
willis get out of here.
Like what?

Speaker 3 (01:40:48):
it was like last year that I watched this.
Nobody, nobody told me about it.

Speaker 2 (01:40:51):
I was like I did, like a series of tweets from
movies from 20 years ago withsurprise twists.
Act like I just saw the moviefor the first time.
Wait, bruce willis is dead thewhole time tyler durden is,
whatever the hell he was luke'sfather yeah all right, we're
gonna wrap this one up.

(01:41:12):
Um, our schedule this week ismonday, wednesday, because we
don't want to interruptanybody's triduum.
So, um, christian, thank youfor coming.
You, you added a lot to theshow.
I knew having yeah, I knewhaving a Thomist on would help
us.
Um, why didn't you stream it toyour channel too?

Speaker 3 (01:41:28):
Oh, I did.
I did stream it to my channel.

Speaker 2 (01:41:30):
Oh, okay, I didn't know.
I didn't know if we were bothon there.
Um, yeah, so uh, yeah, we'llget you back on, man, I, I
always enjoy having you on.
Yeah, absolutely All right.
So we will see you guys onWednesday.
I have no idea what we're goingto talk about yet.
Maybe something will happen.
I'm going to try and set up aconversation with Father Jason,
sharon, and we'll get him onsoon, because he Matt said all

(01:41:52):
right.
So what Matt said was FatherJason said he's open to coming
on If you're open to chat withhim.
Thought your show tonight wasreasonable and not at all
inflammatory.
Thank you, so and that's that'swhat we were hoping for, right?
Like we just wanted to kind ofhave the conversation be, be
charitable to him, but just kindof point out, like some of the
problems with this ideology,with jumping into that you know

(01:42:13):
framework, so, all right, man,we'll do this, do this.
Uh, we'll do this again soon.
Thank you, christian.
Yep, god bless, I'll talk toyou guys.
Take us out, rob, thank you.

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