November 12, 2025 • 62 mins
The ground beneath Catholic life is moving: a diocese weighs merger, a flagship university faces succession questions, and a younger right is quietly mastering the mechanics of power. We open with Steubenville’s crossroads and the outsized influence of charismatic figures like Scott Hahn—how donor gravity, faculty recruitment, and reputation hinge on personalities, and what happens when those anchors age out. That sparks a bigger question we can’t dodge: can Catholic institutions renew themselves without a clear plan for leadership and community stability?
From there we zoom out to the media and political ecosystem. Critics warn about Groypers infiltrating DC, but miss what makes the movement resilient: a culture of praxis that turns talking points into step‑by‑step action. We unpack the generational clash as older voices lean on moral alarm while younger Catholics ask for mentorship, not gatekeeping. The real divide forming isn’t over liturgy; it’s over whether we keep outsourcing our hopes to a spent conservative order or build policy around Catholic social teaching—curbing usury, strengthening families, and defending place over “just move.”
We don’t sanitize hard topics or excuse reckless behavior. We insist on charity as a boundary, reject dehumanization, and argue that serious strategy beats viral outrage. If the old guard wants relevance, it must confront the debt, housing, and wage realities that make Gen Z cynical. If the young right wants durability, it must build institutions and habits that outlast personalities. Between these paths lies a rare chance to renew Catholic witness in public life.
Subscribe for future episodes, share this one with a friend who cares about the Church’s future, and leave a review with your take: is the next Catholic fault line already here?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:11):
If I died today, tomorrow you would come on here
and use my death to promote avoting Babylon.
SPEAKER_04 (00:17):
Yeah.
So Rob passes on Tuesday.
There's no show Tuesday orThursday.
So the third show, the followingTuesday, the hunt begins for
your replacement.
And I'll do auditions.
This is a bad idea.
Yeah, dude.
Even if that gave me an800-pound squat, man, I don't
know, man.
Uh Joshua Charles.
(00:38):
What on earth is he talkingabout?
SPEAKER_03 (00:40):
Send out inviting to all the current you know
podcasters, inviting them on.
Make sure not to send one toTrent.
SPEAKER_02 (00:48):
Sorry, Rob.
I want that co-host spot.
SPEAKER_04 (00:51):
So Wagner won the spot.
Wait, wait, was this planned?
No.
Wait, this was this was notplanned.
Rob forgot to take the introvideo down from the last
episode, but we did discuss ifRob goes, who's I'm gonna find
his replacement overnight.
(01:11):
And Rob's gone, guys.
I hate to break it to you, butRob and I.
It's me and Wagner.
Wagner won the spot, he got thegolden ticket.
That's it.
Um the Broy problem avoidingBabylon.
The uh the okay, so uh Rob isfeeling a little under the
weather.
Um, I wanted to talk about acouple of things tonight, and I
(01:34):
think if Wagner was probably theperfect perfect person to bring
on for do you hear an echo inthis in this room?
Because I moved some thingsaround in my in my studio and
sounds echoey over here.
But um, so okay, so I had a abunch of stuff I wanted to get
into tonight.
One was uh Stupenville is istalking about merging their
diocese uh with Cleveland, Ithink.
(01:56):
And uh I had some comments on onuh Scott Hahn that Thursday
didn't really he wasn't crazyabout.
Uh so I figured we'd talk aboutthat a little.
Then Rod Dreer wrote an articleabout his trip to DC and talking
about the Groipers, uh, and how40% of the zoomers that work in
(02:17):
DC are all secret NickFalenthouse games.
SPEAKER_02 (02:20):
I need to be I need to be so careful with uh what
what I say about that, but youknow, Dre or I I was reading
that earlier and I was like hehe really has no idea.
Like he's he's just like in he'sjust in his own world uh right
there, and it he makes no sensewhen he's commenting on the
groupers and you know theirplacement and in like political
(02:42):
positions.
He's just he's just got no idea.
It's it's so crazy.
SPEAKER_04 (02:47):
The other thing is I think that Catholic Inc.
has no idea how much groupershas infiltrated their realm.
Um, there's there's a lot ofthis going on right now.
So look, I have this theory thatum all the older guys I see like
freaking out about Fuentes, andI'm not just talking about like
(03:07):
anybody that dislikes them, I'mtalking about the guys who are
like publicly like saying stuffabout the dangers of Fuentes and
all that stuff.
These are the same guys who allbelieve in evolution, they all
flip out if you question themoon landing, and they all end
them.
SPEAKER_02 (03:26):
I know you're you're getting a little darker right
now.
SPEAKER_04 (03:28):
I didn't know that you were going back to the
world.
It's evolution, the moonlanding.
Um, and what's the other one,man?
Um, what was the other one?
It was evolution, the moonlanding.
There's like me, there's thisoh, and aliens.
They all believe that there'spossibility of aliens out there.
Like it's something about likethe the the propaganda they all
(03:50):
received that they all hold tothose narratives.
Like they're all just they getupset when you question their
their their their narrative.
So we'll get we're going to getinto that.
Um, and uh I have a bunch ofother things that I want to talk
about too, but we'll see wheretime leads us.
So why don't we start off withthe Stubenville story?
(04:11):
Yeah.
Um, so Steubenville basically isum considering merging their
diocese with um let me just see.
I want to make sure I have thestory right.
Uh sorry guys, when Rob's nothere, things uh I'm gonna pull
up what I wrote and then andthen uh share what Thursday
(04:33):
said.
So let's see what we got here.
Uh let's see.
This is oh man, this new thisnew chat for um dude.
SPEAKER_02 (04:45):
That could have been that could have been so bad, you
know, you showing your your yourDMs.
SPEAKER_04 (04:51):
I pulled it down just in case, but like the way
the new chat is working, Ireally don't like it.
Uh I'm gonna stop screen sharethere and then restart it.
Dude, I don't like the way thenew chat is set up.
All right, let's go with this.
Okay, this should work.
Let's see.
Okay, at the stage.
(05:12):
Okay.
So uh the Saint Paul, all right.
So I wrote, I got news for youguys.
So I was talking about theSteubenville diocese.
Now, if they merge, and I said,I got news for you guys.
Once Scott Hahn retires orpasses on, there is no
Steubenville.
Say the St.
Paul Center will also closedown.
There is no clear successor tothe Han legacy, nobody has his
charisma or ability tocaptivate.
So now I was a subscriber to theEmmaus Road thing he had, and I
(05:38):
I subscribed to it because Iwanted to hear his talks, and
then I figured I'd cruise aroundthat site to try to find
somebody else that I might enjoytheir talk.
There isn't really a singleperson on there that I found
like, oh, I can't wait to seewhat else they put out.
And a couple of people werelike, Oh, what about John
Bergsmo?
What about and I'm like, Bergsmois just as old as Scott Hahn,
(05:58):
and he's going to be retiring orstepping down around the same
time.
So Thursday said the same thesame poll center is great, but
it's not the center ofSteubenville.
And there are lots of otherthings that can survive Scott.
The College of St.
Joseph, the worker, FirstFridays on the fourth, uh, the
community life, creatorconference, Mark Nelson,
Franciscan University,regardless of its problems,
(06:18):
gonna hold growth.
Uh, if you don't live here, youdon't know what we need or what
we are doing.
Now, here's the thing (06:23):
um, I don't live there.
Thursday would definitely have abetter perspective on this with
me.
My point is that Scott Hahnhimself, people may not be going
in droves to Steubenvillebecause of Scott Hahn, but Scott
Hahn brings a certain level ofprestige to Steubenville.
He drives donors there, heattracts other professors that
(06:45):
they want to come and teachthere because they know Scott
Hahn is there.
Now, you already had Frad leave.
Once Scott leaves, I just thinkthey're going to have a bit of a
problem over there, especiallyonce this diocese gets merged
with Cleveland.
I don't see how they maintaintheir unique Catholic identity.
It's not really the epicenter ofCatholicism in the States.
(07:08):
Like, right, it's for the past25 years, it's kind of had that
reputation of being theepicenter of like of Catholicism
because you had everything goingon at Franciscan, and they were
very closely related to theCatholic Inc.
crowd.
So all the guys at Stubenvillewould run through Frad show,
they'd have good associationswith Trent and Catholic answers,
and they kind of like fed off ofeach other.
(07:29):
And I I think they're going tobe in trouble when Scott steps
down.
SPEAKER_02 (07:33):
Um, yeah, I don't know.
I could see from at least myknowledge of like kind of some
of the dealings of Emma, St.
Paul's Center, you know, thekind of everything going on with
Franciscan.
I could see the argument forlike, you know, St.
Paul's Center, Emmaus, they'regonna have to, you know, somehow
uh change.
They're gonna get smaller,they're gonna, you know, there's
(07:54):
gonna be some issues uh theresomehow.
But you know, with withFranciscan University, I I just
don't foresee um a sort of rapidcollapse, especially because
like there's this weirddemographic shift of people from
the coast going into um actuallythe Midwest, and I guess Ohio
would be considered the Midwesthere.
(08:14):
Um, and it's it just doesn'treally make sense to me that
there would it collapse backinto being like a crack den.
Because that that's basicallywhat Steubenville was before uh
was kind of like well, it'sstill it's it's like it's 50
Catholic, 50 crackhead.
Um a little bit of a little bitoverlap.
SPEAKER_04 (08:33):
It's basically crackheads, prostitutes, and
catholicism.
It's yeah, that's the mix goingon there.
It's it's interesting though,because there'll be like a
really beautiful house.
Like we went there and we rentedan Airbnb and it was gorgeous.
And next door you see somebodyshooting up, and you're like,
Oh, that's interesting, youknow.
But the the the thing is that soif you read the Stubenville are
(08:55):
the uh the the article from thepillar, I think it was, they're
bleeding Catholics at threetimes the rate as the general
population, really.
So, yeah, so instead of likedrawing more Catholics in to
make it more Catholic, they'rebleeding Catholics at triple the
rate of the general population.
So it seems like these kids thatgo to college there, very few of
(09:17):
them are making their lifethere.
They're they're going, they'regetting their degree, they're
figuring out what they're gonnado, and then they either go back
home or they get a job somewhereelse.
But it's not like they'reforming a community that people
want to want to stay.
They do have some pretty cool umlike devotional things going on.
Like that first Friday festivalis awesome.
If you've never been to it, itreally is pretty cool.
(09:38):
But um, I don't know.
I I don't I just think,especially with the St.
Paul Center and the Emmaus Roadthing, Scott Hahn has dumped all
this money, all this donor moneyinto this project.
And it just seems like he hasn'tfigured out a successor to that
project.
And I don't know.
I I I because I talked to JoshuaCharles about this too.
(09:58):
I'm like, eternal Christendomright now, like you're the face
of it.
It's kind of like life site wasJohn Henry Weston.
Because we're in suchpersonality-driven times, yeah,
it's kind of difficult for athing like that that has Scott
Hanna's the face of it tocontinue on after he's gone,
unless there's a clear, likecharismatic figure that's right
up in the ranks behind him thathe's been forming that can take
(10:21):
over things and bring the moneyin the same way he does.
SPEAKER_02 (10:24):
Yeah, I mean, I think that this happens with a
lot of organizations.
Um, in the Protestant world atleast.
Uh, I've seen this.
You know, it happens in uhmultiple different uh
institutions, unless there'slike this weird thing, it's kind
of funny.
Um uh R.C.
Sproul, I don't know if you everheard of him.
Uh yeah, I've read his books.
Yeah, Ligonier Ministries, butthey literally kept uh releasing
(10:48):
books for like five years afterhe died.
Like it was literally for likeyears after he died, they would
keep releasing books ofbasically just like transcripts
and like you know, recalled outstuff that he had already said
and written for like years afterhe died, because that's really
the only way that you can keepthings like that going.
SPEAKER_04 (11:08):
Um, well, we're watching it with TPUSA, right?
TP USA right now, you'rewatching the face of the
organization past, and they'rein kind of turmoil right now in
mayhem.
SPEAKER_02 (11:20):
Yeah, I mean that this is this is actually I was
talking, funnily enough, uh,with the the groping of Catholic
Inc.
I didn't know I was gonna be apart of this since like uh until
like an hour ago, uh basically,but um the with the groping of
Catholic, I was just talking tosomebody earlier, and basically
my my sort of idea behind it isthat when it comes to Nick and
(11:43):
the America First movement, thethe Gruiper movement, like
they're kind of here to stay.
Like they're everywhere, they'rehere to stay.
Um, it's it's like a force thatkind of just you know, it's
you're either going you have tomake a decision.
Like if you're going to want tobe like a political actor,
you're gonna want to be involvedin these things, you're gonna
have to make a decision whetheryou like it or not.
(12:04):
And this is something that waskind of, you know, it was uh
taught to us from a very youngage with working with the GOP,
despite uh all of their you knowsupposed flaws, um, actual flaws
of the GOP.
Um, but we were taught that youkind of have to work with less
ideal uh groups or groups thatyou may have disagreements with
uh with things.
(12:26):
So you kind of just have to makea choice.
Like, are you going to work withlike Joel Barry, uh the the
Babylon Bee?
Are you gonna be working with uhyou know Ben Shapiro?
Uh are you are you gonna beworking with like this sort of
side of things, uh, which wouldbasically be like a sort of
liberal republicanism, or areyou gonna work with you know
(12:46):
this other um you know up andcoming movement?
But the one thing, and this thisis the reason why it was uh
brought to my mind, but the theone thing where this could
actually uh change is the veryreal possibility that somebody
just you know uh eliminatesNick.
You know, I I don't know whatwords I have to say to not get
uh this video taken down onYouTube.
But if somebody were toeliminate Nick, like that's a
(13:08):
very real possibility, uh, youknow, in this climate.
That's one of the I think likethe weaknesses of the Groiper
movement is it's definitely umcentered around Nick.
Like if Nick goes, like thewhole thing is kind of done.
I think that basically everybodycan kind of uh agree to that.
So it's it's a very um it's avery fragile uh thing,
(13:31):
especially you know, with thisknowledge out that probably a
lot of people have thoughtabout.
SPEAKER_04 (13:36):
Okay, so um it's been a little contentious on our
show because I keep talkingabout this topic.
Like I see the divide right nowin the church as being on the
some of the things that Nick hasbeen raising, right?
Like, I don't think we're facinga divide on liturgy, I think
(13:56):
we're facing a divide on whereyou kind of land on this issue.
And and my perspective is thatit's because we're heading
towards something where thisissue is going to be front and
center.
Um, and I think Matt going overto Daily Wire plays a big part
of that.
I think you're gonna startseeing two camps form, and it's
not going to be trads and novusordo, it's going to be kosher
Catholicism, which Stephen Coxcoined that term.
(14:18):
And Catholicism.
Because I see I see itespecially, I see it as a trad
issue because I see it allstemming from the council, and I
see it all stemming fromNostratate and our approach
towards other religions, andespecially uh towards the Jews,
and with that document with nostratate.
(14:39):
So it's like I'm I I see thisissue as the main dividing line,
and I think that it's becausethere's going to be a version of
Catholicism that softens peopleto accepting the Antichrist.
And that's just kind of how Isee it.
SPEAKER_02 (14:56):
I don't I don't know.
SPEAKER_04 (14:57):
I don't and you don't have an apocalyptic view
of it, but that's fine.
SPEAKER_02 (15:01):
Yeah, I I mean for for at least for me, I actually
think the divide is is reallyunfortunate because I'm somebody
who's more on the the right sideof things.
Like I've said in the past thatyou know I wouldn't consider
myself you know a groiper, um,despite you know how much I am
uh accused of it.
Um and but I do I do saypositive things often about
(15:22):
groupers and about Nick himself.
I I do think it's actuallyunfortunate that this is
something that is you know adividing line in the church, uh,
because I'm totally fine withactually like you know, believe
it or not, I'm actually totallyfine with working uh with
people, working with people uh,you know, in terms of you know,
apologetics, uh theology, uh,etc., with people that I
(15:46):
actually disagree very stronglywith uh on this issue, and we'll
kind of hash out ourdisagreements.
I really don't understand why.
Uh it's it's very confusing tome.
Uh, maybe you could explain itto me, um, Anthony, but it's
really confusing to me why thisissue in particular, you know,
we're having a differing opinionon matters of policy uh when it
(16:09):
comes to the way in which UnitedStates politics works, the way
in which governance works.
We have very different views ofthis.
I think as a sort of pragmaticmove, that, you know, it's I
think it's basically inevitablethat there is uh this sort of
large portion of uh groupers inpolitics.
And I think it's um you knownecessary to not just have this
(16:30):
complete, you know, hostilityand never work with them and
things like that.
I think that's completelyunhelpful.
Um, and then there's otherpeople who think this is the
worst thing since um, you know,the thing that happened in the
1940s.
SPEAKER_04 (16:42):
Okay, okay, but we have to get we have to get into
that a bit because uh likeyou're saying you're willing to
discuss things with people onthe other side, but they're not
willing to discuss things withyou.
Yeah, yeah, that's that's kindof how it goes, right?
So you're willing to have theconversation, but I don't think
any of them want to have theconversation because I think
they know they're on a losingside of this issue.
And when you start getting whenyou when you start getting into
(17:04):
some of the things that Nick isactually raising.
So, okay, so the way I see it isthe people that are like losing
their minds over this, all theirtheir all of their fear is we
are heading towards anotherevent like World War II.
Like that's their fear.
It's like I this has happenedbefore, and as soon as people
start getting upset with withwith with this group of people,
(17:26):
the next thing you know, they'rebussing them in into internment
camps.
Yeah, and it's like I don'tknow.
I'm I am like we are like thatis not happening.
SPEAKER_02 (17:37):
Like I'm saying if I thought that was happening,
obviously I would not be doing Iwould not have the same opinion
if I like legitimately thoughtthat that was happening.
But I think that's just insane.
I think you have to be a crazyperson to um listen to Nick kind
of understand what grouperismis, and then say, Oh, they're
gonna it.
This is literally okay, and Iwas just thinking about this
(17:57):
earlier when I was reading uhRod's article, but this is
literally the like 2016, uhwell, the 2025 version of the
2016 mean tweets thing.
It's like Nick says, you know,edgy jokes, he's he's like you
one could say, okay, he's he'srude to this person, you know,
he attacked this person when heshouldn't have, you know,
whatever.
He takes this position, I don'tlike.
(18:18):
But that is completely differentthan I think he's gonna go out
and his influence is gonnaresult in the death of millions.
Like that, that is those are twovery completely different
things.
I honestly think that when itcomes to the liberal, normy, uh
libertarian-esque republicanism,I think that's dangerous.
I think that's very dangerous tome, my children, my future.
(18:39):
Um, I think it's dangerous to mynation.
I think it's dangerous tocontinuation of my culture, my
church.
I I think it's very dangerous.
So I like I don't know why theyhave to make a moral judgment of
me of who I'm uh who I'm verywilling to work with versus not
work with, um, and you know,stuff like that.
It doesn't make any sense to me.
SPEAKER_04 (18:56):
Okay, so I I kind of want to get into something now.
I want to play a clip from GavinAshington.
Um I will not be commenting onthis clip.
I want to play a clip from GavinAshing.
You can comment on this clip.
I will happen, Mr.
Under the Weather.
SPEAKER_03 (19:10):
The medicine took effect.
SPEAKER_04 (19:13):
Oh, all right.
Um, I want to play a clip fromGavin.
Um, and I want to get intobecause this is this is I want
to get into the generationaldivide on this issue, and this
is uh this is kind of where Isee this this all stemming from.
SPEAKER_00 (19:31):
Um okay, so it was the sight of the Holocaust that
first made me inclined tobelieve in God.
For when I discovered what humanbeings have done to each other,
I really could not believe thathuman beings were capable of
what the Germans did to theJews.
(19:52):
Six million.
And this is a moment when I haveto say how much I totally
despise the Holocaust denierswho are sick, sick, sick to
their soul, who have beeninvaded by a perverting evil
(20:16):
that has darkened their minds inan attempt to somehow dilute the
horror of what evil did throughhuman beings to one another.
And if there is anything we cando today, it is to resist the
anti-Semitism and the Holocaustdeniers who have become vehicles
(20:41):
of evil and call them out forit.
It's not their fault.
I have to I have to interject.
SPEAKER_04 (20:55):
Um I like Gavin, but um this virtue signaling
standing up like I have to speakabout those who deny this event.
And it's like the most peopledon't deny the event.
(21:15):
We just don't care.
We just don't care anymore.
Like it's like we're just tiredof talking about it, you know?
And the the older generation, itwas I think they're too close to
the event, and uh it was such amain staple of uh of their
education, of the propagandathey were fed, especially back
(21:39):
when there was only threechannels to get your news
information on, and Hollywoodwas just pumping movie after
movie out on this topic.
SPEAKER_03 (21:47):
I mean, he he literally said his faith
depended on the Holocaust.
SPEAKER_04 (21:51):
Yeah, there's there's a there's this tendency
to think denial of the Holocaustis uh it's like they will treat
people who deny certain elementsof that event with with more
contempt than they will peoplewho deny the crucifixion and
resurrection.
Like it's a bizarre.
(22:12):
It's a bizarre thing to me whenI see people acting like this is
the like for someone to questionanything from that time is a
level of evil worse than theworst heresy on the planet.
And I just like it it upsets mewhen I hear things like that,
especially because there aremany people who make that
(22:33):
accusation who have very messypersonal moral lives, so it's
like they're they're judgingsomebody for not for maybe being
a little bit younger and saying,okay, like this story isn't that
that much of a myth-bearing loadfor me, and I'm willing to look
at it kind of like past events,you know, like okay, it's well,
what about the Hall of the Moor?
(22:54):
What about what about you know,they're they're getting unknit
for saying things like oh Hitlerwas based or something like
that, but nobody would questionif you said Julius Caesar was
based.
Julius Caesar murdered a millionGauls, and it's like if you were
like, Oh, I like the aestheticof Julius Caesar, huh?
SPEAKER_02 (23:12):
Have you met French people?
Kind of cooked there.
(24:02):
Yeah, honestly, um, I'm I'm bluepilled uh on those historical
questions that you brought up.
So before anybody gets tooexcited about that, um I'm blue
pilled, uh whatever.
But yeah, it is really odd to methat uh when it comes to people
asking, like there, there's thisinstance of all of these gropers
(24:26):
coming into these politicalcommunities, they're going in
and being staffers, and youknow, because this is actually
something that I think a lot ofpeople do not give Nick credit
for.
And I wish that Catholics,especially when we're talking
about church politics, that wewould be smarter about this.
Nick has always been very smartin mixing together theory and
praxis, where he will describe,you know, what he what his
(24:49):
political take is about this,what he thinks the plan should
be for this and that, you know,doing everything a normal
political talk show would do.
But then alongside of this,alongside of giving his hot take
about current events, somethingthat Nick really excels in is he
will actually go and explainwhat he thinks practically ought
to be done.
Like, how do we actually reversethis?
And he will hammer it intopeople's heads again and again
(25:12):
and again and again of like,okay, well, this is the issue.
This is what I think thesolution will be.
Here's what you can do about it,and here's what I'm doing about
it, here's what you know, youcan actually concretely, you
know, affect change.
And I think that for a lot ofthe older people, they don't
really recognize this.
Like they they do notunderstand.
Like Rod's article, I wasreading it, and he was acting as
(25:35):
if they were just gonna have acakewalk, you know, we're just
gonna look at all of thestaffers' Twitters and find out
whether they're groipers.
That's ridiculous.
These guys are smart, they'rewell educated.
Um, they've heard about this fora very long time of how actually
practically to do this, not getcaught, not get exposed.
Like these are these are peoplewho are working as you know,
(25:57):
like political operatives.
They're not gonna get caught.
Like they're they're not likethe uh the the YR uh group chat
leak.
Like those guys weren'tgroifers.
Uh they were those those guyswere just like random, kind of
edgy, uh, you know, youngRepublicans, um, which you know
they shouldn't have been exposedand uh you know had their lives
ruined.
But you know, these are not likethose guys.
(26:19):
Like you're you're just notgonna be able to find all of
this dirt on 30 to 40 percent ofthe staffers uh in Washington.
Like that's just not gonnahappen.
So I think the reality is like,okay, what what is their end?
And I think that Rod was justcompletely ridiculous here, too.
Where he said, Oh, they're justnihilists, they just want to
burn the system down.
Like, no, that's stupid.
(26:40):
Like, Nick will give thatrhetoric, but Nick Nick's
solutions in what's the one.
Here was my point the other day.
SPEAKER_04 (26:46):
I said everything.
I said, if these older guys keepthrowing the the the accusations
they are around instead ofactually addressing Nick's
Nick's actual arguments, theyare going to lose an opportunity
to to mentor these younger guys.
And and I think that's that thehardest thing for the older guys
(27:08):
is like, man, these these kidsare just they won't listen to
anything.
And I do think the youngergeneration needs mentors.
Like, I really do think theyneed mentors.
I think even Nick needs an olderguy who actually sees things the
way he does.
But and and what I've seen, evenwhen you won't look at the
portnoy situation this week, kidthrough pennies of portnoy, said
F the Jews, and and and and thekid gets in trouble, like
(27:29):
watching Nick come out andactually say, Listen, this is
not the way to go forward.
You cannot do this.
So people are getting on him,though like, like, oh, look, you
started something that can't beput in the box, and now you're
surprised by it.
It's like, no, actually, whatNick is doing is toning down
some of the crazier things hesaid in the past, coming about
it, coming at it from a moremature perspective, and saying,
(27:49):
listen, we're actually gaining alittle momentum here.
We want to see actual changehere.
Like, we do want to get AIPACregistered as a foreign lobby.
We do want to question whetherthey should the APAC should have
this much influence over bothpolitical parties.
We want to make sure that ourforeign policy is not shaped by
another nation.
These are things that we canactually do that we can address
(28:10):
and get worked on.
Um, so I but I do think that thethe issue is if they're not
talking about the actualsubstance of the arguments,
they're gonna lose anyopportunity.
So, Rob put this this post inthe in the um the article or the
post?
No, no, the post.
So I don't know if Dreyer orDrew how do you pronounce his
listing?
Is it Dreyer?
Dreyer, Rod Dreyer, Rod Dreyerwants to be a respectable in the
(28:32):
eyes of Washington elite.
He wants to prove he's not justsome some boy from Louisiana.
So he remains caught betweensympathy for the dispossessed
and loyalty to the system thatdispossessed them.
There's something tragic in him.
You can feel this yearning, hisyearning to be a shepherd to
young men.
But the world he knew is gone.
The young right doesn't needanother anxious essay, it needs
(28:52):
leadership, courage, and visionrooted in reality.
Dreyer claims the new rightwants to tear everything down,
which shows he doesn't quite getit.
They want something to stand on.
They have inherited a countrystripped of meaning.
Their rebellion is not wantondestruction, but the desperate
search for foundation.
They have they obeyed the rules,studied, worked, deferred
pleasure, and were rewarded withdebt and contempt.
(29:14):
They reject the system becausethey see rightly that it cannot
be reformed.
They have shed the Whig delusionthat history moves toward
progress, they knowcivilizations decay, and that
when rot sets in too deep,replacement is the only cure.
In this sense, they're closer tothe founders than Dreyer could
ever ever be.
In the end, his error is thatall of conc and is that all all
(29:36):
of all con ink and an inabilityto learn from their mistakes, a
failure to recognize that thenew right didn't cause the
collapse, they inherited it.
Until the goal, until the oldguard admits this, every sermon
about moral hygiene will beignored because it's the same
tired song of a beautiful of thebeautiful loser.
Like, that is actually a perfectencapsulation of what I was
(29:57):
trying to get at.
It's like They think it's likethese kids are just looking at
the situation, like, oh, we'rescrewed.
Let's tear the whole thing down.
That's not it.
There's it's almost the systemis beyond reform and implicit in
liberalism is its owndestruction.
(30:18):
And we're seeing that democracyreally is just a power game.
So Nick is talking about thingslike look, if we take power, you
don't want to take thelibertarian approach.
You actually want to use thepower you get to bring things
back towards a Christian order.
Like if we're not conservingChristian morality, what the
hell are we doing all this for?
SPEAKER_02 (30:38):
Yeah, I think that um uh a point that was brought
up there, and uh somebodysomebody had asked me, like I
there they basically they uhmessaged me and they were they
were like, Look, I don't get theGruper thing.
Like, why are all these guyslike what why do they follow
Nick?
You know, why do they join thesegroups of you know, these group
chats and no whatever else?
(30:59):
Like what why do they do that?
Like, what is the sort of likefundamental reason?
And I think that for a lot ofthem, like there's a certain
hopelessness that they have.
Uh, you know, they look at thestate of the nation, they look
at, you know, a lot of thelosses in the last, especially
in the last 20 to 25 years uhthat we've had, and they're kind
of picking up on you know ananalogy with what Trump did.
(31:20):
Like Trump was there, there's abunch of hopeless people, and
Trump gave them hope.
And I would say it was falsehope for Trump for sure.
Um, people can judge uh for Nickuh for themselves, but for a lot
of you know, the the youngergeneration, they they feel
pretty hopeless, and Nickactually gives them hope that
this is a way forward.
You know, people could argue allday that they think that this is
(31:42):
a false hope, they think thatit's not actually going to
deliver, uh, et cetera, etcetera.
But that that's sort of thereason why that uh you know that
they're feeling this way.
I think that's what hope isthere in like the Ben Shapiro
message like move.
No, like well, what what likeyeah, has Ben Shapiro ever given
a hopeless person hope?
(32:02):
Unless you're from Israel, Iguess.
SPEAKER_04 (32:05):
It's it's uh it's and it's even more that like
everybody's like obsessing onNick, on Nick, on Nick.
It's not even about like I'mlistening to what Nick's saying.
Like, I'm not I'm not a griper,I don't, I don't, I don't watch
Nick regularly.
I think I think that the thingshe's bringing up are super
important, and I and I'm alsowatching it split the church
right now.
Like what with Matt going overto Daily Wire and then watching
(32:29):
watching how his guest list isgoing to shape out, I'm a little
concerned with that.
I'm watching um they put DavidWood is is one of his next
guests, and I know they'retrying to put uh Protestant
Christians in who want to blameIslam for everything while
overlooking any of the domesticissues that we are facing with
(32:49):
this issue.
Like this issue.
SPEAKER_02 (32:52):
The way that I think if you're European, it makes
actually a lot of sense for meto uh focus on the um the
Islamic threat.
But like as an American, youlook at the sort of rates in
which uh Muslims are you knowaffecting domestic policy.
Maybe there's certain areas,especially like Minneapolis, um,
areas in Texas, um, you know,certain bigger cities where like
(33:14):
Islam is a big issue.
But like for me, I I don't eventhink there's a mosque.
Like, I don't even know wherethe nearest mosque would be,
maybe an hour from me.
Um, you know, where I'm moving,the nearest mosque is probably
like four hours from me.
Um, like Islam is notnecessarily like the big threat
for me.
Um, so yeah, it it makes sensefrom like a European
perspective, but from anAmerican perspective to fixate
(33:35):
on like Islam is like the bigissue that we need to be
focusing on.
That's very like um, you know,like 2001 George W.
Bush.
Yeah, George W.
Bush in a way that I just don'tI just can't comprehend that
being like the big deal.
SPEAKER_03 (33:49):
Yeah, listen.
I mean in the solution to thatis pretty easy to stop importing
them.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, just aborto.
SPEAKER_04 (33:56):
I mean, it's a simple simple solution.
People are saying like that, oh,they're just drumming up old
tropes and conspiracy theories,but I don't think that I think
that we're beyond that at thispoint.
I think there's enough going onwhere you even just see the
gatekeeping and how they'retreating anyone who even
questions anything, what they'vedone to Dave Smith, what they've
(34:16):
done to Tucker Carlson.
Like, forget Nick, just justpeople who have a libertarian
perspective on this issue, howthey're treating them.
Like Nick, I I think is bringingidentity into the picture a lot
more than those guys.
Those guys are just looking atit like, oh, we shouldn't be
supporting a foreign nation.
And I and and like that's likean acceptable approach to take.
(34:36):
I'm looking at it from the thenarrative that you discussed
with with Gideon yesterday,where you guys went through and
discussed the the the olderbrother and the younger brother
in scripture and going throughall those stories.
And I'm seeing it as Christiansare told ever since uh ever
since uh uh the World War IIthat they need to uh um love uh
(35:00):
people of all religions and nottreat them with any kind of
suspicion, but the people ofother religions are still
treating Christians withsuspicion.
So it's like, and you see ithappening in real time right
now, where if you even questionanything, this knee-jerk
reaction to, oh my goodness,we're on the cusp of another
Holocaust.
And it's happening not just fromthe people that we're talking
(35:21):
about, but it's happening fromChristians, Christians who were
raised on that narrative are alljumping to this.
We're on the verge of anotherHolocaust.
It's not, no, we're not.
No, we're not.
It's just not.
That's we're no, it's not,that's not going to happen.
We're not, we're nowhere near umuh a pogrom happening, anything
like that.
We're at a point where we wantto have a discussion on how
(35:43):
Jewish power affects ourpolitics and the way our country
is run.
And when we're telling you guysthat we can't, our children
can't afford, like, I live inNew York, my son is not going to
be able to afford to buy ahouse.
Trump comes out and goes, hey,let's bury them in 50 years of
usury instead of 30.
15-year car loans, a 15-year carloan and a 50-year mortgage, and
it's like, you are going to makemy son a slave.
(36:06):
I'm sorry, but this is not asolution.
And these are all ideas thathelp Jewish financiers and
bankers and things like that.
Like you're just amping theconspiracy theories up.
SPEAKER_02 (36:16):
Well, I mean, even if we were to take the the sort
of like JQ aspect out of it,like if I were to speak to um,
you know, normal Catholics thatkind of aren't even uh into that
stuff and are kind of more sojust like I have a sort of like
Tucker Carlson-esque sort ofview of, you know, I'm not a
pure capitalist.
You know, I believe that thegovernment can, you know,
(36:38):
intervene and uh actually worktowards uh the common good.
You know, I'm just a I'm asocial conservative.
I I believe that you know, a lotof these uh different
aberrations which have arisen inthe last you know 30, 40 years
ought to be uh somehoweliminated, uh whether on the
the state level or the nationallevel.
Like from people on thatperspective, I do think that
(37:01):
it's actually a losing game uhto return to the slop of you
know the Ben Shapiro uh sort ofcrowd.
Like I think that it's a couple,like, for example, Matt Frad,
um, you know, even Trent.
I I don't I don't think thatMatt Frad, Trent, or uh maybe uh
probably not Lila Rose.
Lila Rose probably is um youknow outside the pale.
(37:23):
But like uh individuals likethat, I have no I have no doubt
that when it comes to a lot ofmatters of of policy or
principle, that we probably havea general agreement, you know,
when it comes to we we just wantpeople to be able to afford
things, you know.
We want um a sort of socialcohesion, we want um, you know,
like the the moral um you knowfabric to be retained, you know,
(37:45):
things like this.
But I do think it's a mistake toautomatically assume that uh
reflexively, like we can't in apragmatic way uh sort of work
with uh you know the new right,that we just have to keep
working with the old right andgrit our teeth when they're
bringing literally only Franceprostitutes on to the GOP uh,
(38:05):
you know, uh national conventionstage uh to speak, or they're
appointing homosexuals uh, youknow, to run major departments
in in the federal government, orthey're downplaying abortion,
they're downplaying um, youknow, sodomy, they're they're
downplaying all of these uhthings.
They are uh you know onlyworking for the capitalist class
(38:26):
and they're completely screwingpeople over.
Like I don't I don't see, like Ido not understand, and I don't
think they'll ever be able toexplain to me why uh I should
have a uh a moral obligation towork with those people, you
know, because you know Nick hassaid this thing or that thing or
this thing, and he is sort ofemblematic of the new right.
SPEAKER_04 (38:47):
So, so like I talk okay, so I I talk to Kale on the
phone a lot.
Um, I just spoke with him um Ithink two days ago, him and I
had a conversation.
So like I understand hisworries.
Like, I I I don't I don't wantto downplay that, like, because
even with the Portnoy situationwhere like you do see kids don't
(39:07):
understand the difference ininternet culture in real life,
right?
Like, there's really noappropriate time to yell.
Like, if that kid would havejust said F Dave Portnoy, it
would have been fine.
But to just start lobbing F likeit's just a stupid thing to say.
You actually do make everyonelook like you are the villain
that they're accusing you ofbeing.
(39:28):
It's it's not it's not anappropriate way to handle it.
I I want to just talk aboutthese issues from both a
theological perspective and Iwant to talk about them from a
political perspective.
A political perspective becauseI think that actually affects
the future of our country, but atheological perspective because
I think that the entire churchright now, ever since the
(39:50):
council, is kind of in a in ahaze to this issue, and they and
they don't understand the enmitybetween the the people of the
old covenant and the people ofthe new covenant, and they all
and they're they're constantlytalking about uh even even the
people I respect on this issueare always talking about the
unification of of the brothersat the end of the story, and
it's like, yes, that's fine, butthat's not the point of the
(40:12):
story we're at right now.
We're at the point in the storywhere the older brother wants to
kill the younger brother.
Yeah, or the Esau is comingafter us rather.
SPEAKER_05 (40:20):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (40:21):
Where Cain is trying to kill us.
We're at the point in the storywhere Joseph is getting sold
into slavery, like that's justthe point of the story we're at.
We're not at the point where thebrothers reconcile.
And that will come.
And the thing is, there's likethere's a way that we have to
see this from a Catholicperspective, where it can never
(40:42):
arise to a pogrom and it cannever arise to violence, and it
can never arise to hate.
No, but it does have to, but youdo have to understand the story
properly and where we are in thestory.
And the thing is, I I mean, I Ican't help but but take take the
things that Maudsley has saidabout even the influence at the
council.
(41:02):
And and if you see the way ifyou see the way they influence
our politics, the idea that theyhaven't in they didn't influence
the council in the same way whenwe know the CIA was trying to
influence the council too, andyou know that the CIA has, you
know, that is that is a very uhit's a very Jewish project.
Let's not just say it like that.
(41:22):
Like that's just what it is.
And they were trying toinfluence the church.
Now it doesn't mean the churchput heresy into the documents,
it what it means is theylightened language, they and and
the people that came out of thatcouncil came with a different
approach to the point where nowin the Vatican you're seeing Leo
having sit-downs with 3,000different denominations of
(41:43):
religions and stuff.
And it's a it the whole thing isbased upon that narrative from
World War II, where we have beenconvinced that us talking about
this enmity between the peopleof the old covenant and the
people of the new covenant, thatand that built animosity, and
that is the reason that whathappened in Germany happened is
(42:03):
because of Christian animosity.
And and I think all of us havesubconsciously accepted that
narrative, and it's just nottrue.
SPEAKER_02 (42:10):
Yeah, I mean, I I think that that narrative is uh
absolutely absurd.
Um and uh I get I guess thatthat's all that I'll say that
the narrative about you know inGermany, uh there happened to be
these Christians and enmity withother denominations.
Uh, when when in reality it italmost seems like it was
actually the complete opposite.
SPEAKER_04 (42:31):
You you know what your problem is, you're still
holding out hope you're gettinginvited to Trent's Trent's
thing.
Like you still think you mightget the invite to Trent's thing.
SPEAKER_02 (42:40):
I wasn't given any special message of like, hey
Wagner, you're not allowed here.
I'm sure if I bought a ticket, Icould show up.
SPEAKER_04 (42:47):
Oh, I know you could show up, but you want to be on
the poster on the thumbnail.
You're not gonna ever be on theposter, dude.
SPEAKER_02 (42:54):
No, it's yeah, if anybody, you know, it's I saw
people speculating about this,you know.
If they want to if they want towhat what's why I mean to ask a
trend, I mean it's not uh youknow, no okay, wait, wait, wait,
but I will ask you this.
SPEAKER_04 (43:09):
I will ask you this.
Do you think because you did goto uh the creator conference and
you did meet a lot of peoplethere and you made a lot of
friends there?
Like I did kind of expect aninfiltration from Wagner into
Catholic Inc.
a little a little bit, and it'snot happening.
SPEAKER_03 (43:26):
Instead, they uh they uh what what's her name?
Katie Pregeen is uh speaker now.
SPEAKER_02 (43:34):
Well, yeah, I mean I don't know.
Kyle, Kyle, Kyle.
I I like Kyle.
Kyle is awesome.
I love Kyle.
Yeah, he's he's great for sure.
Um, but yeah, I mean I I didn'treally expect uh that much, to
be honest.
Uh I'm just waiting and seeing,uh, you know, just just being
me, always saying what I say.
SPEAKER_03 (43:56):
No, um, they can't be how it's pronounced.
I refuse to believe that.
SPEAKER_04 (44:01):
Uh Taylor said, Americans should own up and say,
We screwed over Gen Z, we wereselfish, they didn't inherit
what we had.
Let's help them.
Such a man with that humilitywould be elected president.
Yeah, it's like look, you seethe meme going around now about
the programs that Germany put inplace about families that kept
the wife at home and hadchildren, would get a 25%
(44:22):
discount on their home.
Like you would never seesomething like that from
American politicians.
And it's like, if we cared aboutour country enough, we actually
would do that because you wouldwant you wouldn't want to
inflate your population withforeigners, you'd want your own
population to I mean, for yourown demographics to grow.
Like Taylor's been hammeringthis down a lot lately, just
(44:42):
about the demographics in in inthe West are just on an insane
decline right now.
So it it just seems like there'snever any attempt in policy to
help the younger generation.
And there's the we're dealingwith a recipe for disaster
because when you have a younggeneration who is hopeless
because they can't afford to buya home, they also don't have
(45:05):
prospects to get married.
Because this tied in with allthis is the feminism aspect and
just how blackpilled all theseyoung guys are on marriage
because they don't see us likeman.
I because I've my son's beencoming to work with me, and we
have like a two-hour commuteevery day together where we
talk.
My son's 19 years old, and he'slike, and he went and visited
(45:25):
his friends up at college a weekor two ago, and he's like, he's
like, you just don't even knowwhat's what's out there, dad.
He's like, he just he's likebecause I he's he's like, I've
never seen degeneracy like thatin my life, like where the girls
are just gross, like the girlsthat go to college are just
gross.
SPEAKER_02 (45:43):
Well, I mean, that's not a Gen Z thing.
That's been like that for ithas, yeah, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_04 (45:49):
Yeah, so you you add that into the mix.
So these kids are are hopelesswhen it comes to marriage, they
they have no hope to buy a home,they have no because even their
jobs that they're that they'relooking again, and they're going
to college for four or sixyears, they're getting out and
they're still making nowherenear enough to provide for a
family.
There's no hope for a guy toprovide for a family where his
(46:10):
wife can stay home.
It's just you you're you'redealing with a recipe for
disaster.
SPEAKER_03 (46:14):
And AI is said to just destroy the job market.
SPEAKER_02 (46:19):
Well, I mean, I think what it just comes down
to, and this is why sort of likemy my main argument for why you
could never like you you couldnever team up with somebody like
a Ben Shapiro.
You could never team up with anyof these economic uh liberals in
the in the classical sense.
Because when it comes to theireconomics, their economics is
completely ordered towards theprosperity of of the few.
(46:44):
It's uh it's ordered towards umlike the material gain, the
growth of GDP of a nation.
Like that's what their economicsis based on.
Uh whereas when it comes toCatholic social teaching,
economics is ordered towards thecommon good, you know.
And if you don't have a you knowa politician or a political
movement that is you knowgrounded on that, none of their
economic decisions are going tomake sense, and they're gonna
(47:07):
you know throw us into afundamental uh tyranny, whether
it's the tyranny of debtslavery, it's the tyranny of the
way in which the job marketworks, etc.
SPEAKER_04 (47:15):
But how about how about our president comes out
and instead of saying 50-yearmortgages, say, hey, we're going
to cap credit card interest at12%.
So these kids aren't gettingcredit cards with 26% interest
rates.
SPEAKER_02 (47:26):
Yeah, how about just cap interest?
Throw in throw in jail everybodywho uh throw in jail whoever
made up the fact that we couldhave credit cards with 26%
interest.
Like, who who made these thingsup?
It's it's just so absurd to methat like this is uh like it's
such uh an abuse and like crimeagainst against your fellow man.
(47:48):
It's it's like it's worse thanit's worse than murder, um, in a
sense.
SPEAKER_04 (47:52):
The thing is, okay, so like going forward, uh we're
gonna let Christian go becausehe has to record another show,
and then Rob and I are gonna doa locals uh episode.
Um, and I got some good stuff Iwant to talk about on locals
too.
So this was supposed to be thelocals out of the show.
It was, it was, but I had Wagneron and I figured it would be,
you know, it would be I figuredit would be a good a good topic
(48:13):
for him being here.
Um let me just see something.
Uh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I got I got some good stuff overthere.
So um look like going forward, II want to get Kale on because I
wanna I wanna talk to the oldergeneration, and I and I wanna I
wanna keep the communicationopen.
So it's like yeah, so do ITaylor, right?
(48:35):
Right?
So I yeah, we both have weTaylor and I both have Gen Z
sons.
Like my son is 19 years old andhe's living in this right now.
And I want like so it what wasworse was the Ben Shapiro say
move away thing, right?
Like, oh, you can't afford it.
You don't deserve to live, youdon't deserve to live where you
grew up, you just have to moveaway.
It's like for people that forpeople like Ben, I don't know
(48:58):
what his family situation is,but I can tell you this I have
eight siblings, all eight of mysiblings, except for one of my
sisters, moved down to Florida.
The rest of my siblings all liveat home, like in in this town
where I live, right?
My my kids all have theircousins around them, they have
their grandparents around them,they have my and on both sides
of the family.
(49:18):
Like my kids have 50 cousins,and they and like my nephew was
over my house tonight.
My niece slept over my houselast weekend.
There's something beautifulabout your kids having their
family around, as opposed tojust moving them to the middle
of nowhere because it'ssomewhere affordable, and now
they have now you have noconnection to anyone around you,
you don't have family around.
(49:39):
Like, this is this is untenable.
It's it's evil what they'resaying, like, oh, just move
away.
No, I don't want to move away.
I want my children around myfamily.
That was everybody wonders why Ihaven't left New York.
It's because my parents arehere, all my brothers and
sisters are here, and all mynieces and nephews are here, and
I don't want to leave them.
Like that, we have a very tightfamily.
We have I had family dinner atmy mom's house last night.
(50:01):
Like, it's not, you know, it'snot something I'm willing to
just willingly give up because Imight save a few bucks.
So, no, I I'm not okay with justmove away if you can't afford to
live there.
Um, all right.
So to to to wrap up, um what doyou think uh happens with the
next generation of Catholicsbeing that because I'm seeing
(50:25):
the divide.
Look, I I see guys like Taylor,I see guys like us, I see guys
like you, I see us all willingto have this conversation about
this topic, and then I see thegrouping of guys unwilling to
even speak to us because we talkabout this topic, and I see the
factions forming, and I kind ofsaw them a year out.
I like a year or two out, I sawthem starting to form.
(50:47):
Where yeah, we've been talkingabout this for a while, for a
while, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (50:50):
When was that uh Philo's project thing?
It was like April, right?
SPEAKER_04 (50:55):
Yeah, and I think we seen it even way before that,
where it was like like the look,look, there were guys who were
willing to talk to me two yearsago that contact is cut off now.
Now, that could be because I'mbombastic and I've done shows on
Lila Rose and I you knowcriticize Matt for joining Daily
Wire, but it kind of happenedbefore that, and it's like I
they're they're forming a rankright now, and they don't want
(51:19):
they I feel like what Trent iseven doing with his conference
is putting together himself upfront with all the influencers
in the background and kind ofshowing like the this is my
posse, like yeah, they'rebasically being told like you
guys are on our side, and Ibetter not catch you guys
associating with those otherguys.
That's kind of what it feelslike.
(51:39):
I don't know if that's justfeeling it's it's me putting
conjecture on as you know, myown thoughts, but it kind of
does feel like that's that'swhat's happening right now.
SPEAKER_02 (51:50):
Well, I think there's there's two things.
Um one, I think that I woulddefinitely uh for for the
future, I definitely encourage alot of the politically
interested Catholics who are youknow genuinely right wing when
it comes to social issues, whenit comes to economic issues.
(52:10):
Uh I I would I would genuinelyencourage them to recognize the
practical nature of politics andwhat political prudence looks
like and how you can work withpeople that you may um you know
have disagreements with or youmay you know find problematic,
et cetera, et cetera.
Things that we've uh always youknow kind of practically done uh
(52:31):
with our relationship to the oldright, uh back before there was
the new right.
I would encourage them uh firstand foremost with that.
And second, I would encourage uha lot of the people who just
completely disagree with me andcompletely disagree with the
rest of us to recognize that uha lot of these differences when
it comes to uh you know thepolitical state of our nation,
(52:55):
it it is not sufficient, it isnot sufficient grounds for you
to hinder the work of Catholicaction just on this basis.
Like if you have somebody whodisagrees with you on this, uh,
you know, on this issue, you youshouldn't just bomb, you know,
the uh the effects of the churchevangelizing, doing apologetics,
(53:18):
you know, all of this.
You shouldn't just bomb uhpossible growth just through
this disagreement.
Um, you know, it's no, Iactually our collaboration with
these individuals isn't gonnacause another, you know, uh
1940s event in Germany.
It's not it's not gonna cause asort of cataclysmic uh fall.
Um, so there's no reason to youknow treat those with these
(53:40):
persuasions as a leper.
And I think that that uhdefinitely is in opposition with
uh you know the plenty ofexamples from people of the past
who have done similar things.
SPEAKER_04 (53:51):
I I I really I watched I watched your show with
Gideon yesterday.
I thought it was an awesomeepisode, you you Hassan and
Gideon.
I thought that was a greatepisode.
You guys just talking about thisfrom a theological perspective,
getting into you know the nuanceof the topic.
No, Gideon is obviously ofJewish descent, but he's talking
about it from his perspective.
Like, I like the conversationsneed to happen.
I saw Brian Holdsworth andFather Casey on today.
SPEAKER_02 (54:13):
Wait, he actually like not a groiper, like
Gideon's not a groiper.
Uh the groper is clear.
Um, but like I'm still friendswith Gideon.
We still do work together.
SPEAKER_04 (54:24):
We still they accuse Gideon of being a subverso, they
accuse Kale Zeldon of being asubverso.
And it's like Kale's like one ofmy best friends, dude.
Like, I I legit love Kale, and Iand I love that he lets me have
my perspective on this, and hedoesn't like write me off.
Like, like I talk to him on thephone, he knows him and I
disagree on this.
Um, but he he has some concernsthat I think are overblown, and
(54:47):
I think a lot of it has to dowith narrative control, and I
think stories are such a hugepart of this, man.
Like, like the way we see theworld is through stories, and
when you're molded and shaped inyour youth on certain stories,
they're just it's like the ideathat like you were lied to is a
very it's it's easier toconvince someone of a lie than
(55:10):
it is to convince someone theywere lied to, you know.
It's it's one of those things.
No, but Kale has someinteresting perspectives on
Peter Pan with it and you knowthings like that.
But either way, um, before wego, I wanted to mention um I
there's a young guy that calledinto Keith Nestor's show a
couple months back, and he was aProtestant kid, he was
(55:32):
interested in Catholicism.
He's from New York, he's fromLong Island.
Keith set the kid up with me,gave me his contact, and the
kid's been coming to Latin Masswith me.
Um, and I saw him this weekoutside of Latin Mass, and he's
like, you know, it's so funny.
Like, I started checking yourchannel out, and then I realized
like you have all these otherCatholics that I really like
watching, like Christian Wagner.
And he's like, So he's like, hereally likes you, he really
(55:55):
likes me.
And there's a uh statue of PadrePio right outside, and he goes,
Is that Padre Pio?
I go, yeah.
He goes, My grandmother was likeobsessed with him, so I started
looking into him, and it turnsout he's my fourth cousin.
So this kid is Protestant, hisname is Dominic.
His father is a cradle Catholic,his father came to Latin Mass
with me a couple weeks ago.
His father wants to go to dinnerwith me and my family, um, you
(56:17):
know, with all of us to just goand sit and talk.
Um, but his his fourth cousin isPadre Pio, the kid's Protestant.
I asked him what he thinks ofFuentes.
He goes, Oh, I love him.
So I think I think he'll get akick out of this show.
But uh the young guys, and alsoanother thing, funny thing
happened.
I went to confession at a novusordo parish the other day.
(56:40):
And I go in and a young kid,like 17, 18, I'm I'm there with
my entire family.
Some young kid, his name's hisname is Anthony, comes over and
he's like, Are you Anthony?
I'm like, Yeah, in front of mywhole family.
He's like, I can't believe I'mhere talking to you.
This is so amazing.
It's like I watch your show allthe time.
He's like, I watch you, I watchWagner.
(57:01):
I'm always hearing from youngguys that they watch us and they
watch you.
So I think awesome.
I every every time a young guywatches our show, they always
tell me they also watch Wagner.
So I think I think you and I uhlike our show and your show has
uh has a has has a very youngaudience, and I think we have an
opportunity to speak to theseguys and make sure anybody that
(57:24):
is Catholic, if you are startingto question these stories, you
have to understand your role asa Catholic is to never treat
anyone with contempt.
And I think that's aresponsibility we have as
Catholics to make sure thatother Catholics know yes, you
can discuss these things, yes,you can get into this topic, and
yes, there is a real issue here,but the way we handle it has to
be different from any othergroup because we're supposed to
(57:48):
love our enemies to the point ofmartyrdom.
SPEAKER_02 (57:50):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, obviously, you know,don't do anything harmful
towards um, you know, otherpeople unjustly.
And, you know, especially likein the church and within the
church, you know, don't um, youknow, express a behavior that is
uh schismatic.
Because remember that schism isnot merely separating yourself
from the Pope, it's separatingyourself from those who are in
(58:11):
communion with the Pope as well.
And that can easily uh you knowlead to a mentality where those
disagreeing on these uh you knowissues of secular issues, issues
of uh political governance, etc.
Uh, one can easily you know uhisolate themselves from the rest
of the church uh you know onthis basis.
(58:34):
And it leads it leads down somepretty dark roads.
I've seen it happen before.
SPEAKER_04 (58:40):
Okay, so um we will we're gonna wrap this one up.
We're gonna let you go becauseyou do have another interview
you're gonna do.
Rob and I are going to head overto locals.
I uh I have some someinteresting personal stories to
talk about over there.
Uh my my wife and I had anargument this morning, and uh
something miraculous happened.
(59:01):
That's all I'll say.
I'll tease you guys with that.
Something miraculous.
Close.
Something something miraculoushappened.
And she took never mind, nevermind.
No, no, no.
Nope.
She sorry, right?
Now we'll get it, we'll get intothat.
Um, yeah, and I got a bunch ofother stuff.
(59:21):
Something happened with uh withone of my uh with one of my
sisters, with a girl that sheknew going to confession for her
first time, and like the girlhad all this occult stuff, and
the priest got her to bring itin.
So we got some good stories forthe other side.
So we will see you guys on theother side, Christian.
Thank you for uh semi-filling infor Rob.
I knew once we got theconversation going, Rob would
have FOMO and jump in, but yep,yep.
SPEAKER_02 (59:45):
Uh, you're welcome, Rob, for curing your sick.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah, I'll talk to all you guyslater.
All right, appreciate you,brother.
We'll see you later.
SPEAKER_04 (59:52):
God bless you.
All right, Rob, take us out,bro.
SPEAKER_03 (59:55):
Uh, but before we go, I mean, well, Christian, can
we can drop Christian here?
Uh, do we want to talk about oursponsor?
SPEAKER_04 (01:00:02):
Yes, we'll talk about our sponsor and also guys
hit like and uh share the showand subscribe.
And if you're not localsmembers, that's really where we
always have the best segments ofthe show.
So join locals.
But uh Recusen Sellers, if youguys have not yet, go to
recusyncellers.com, use codebased at checkout for 10% off.
Uh there is very few companiesthat uh that are willing to
(01:00:25):
support our show, and thiscompany is phenomenal.
They have first off, their wineis amazing.
Like, aside from whatever theydo for us, their wine is
amazing.
Rob drinks it regularly.
My wife loves their wine.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:37):
Um, you make me sound like wine.
SPEAKER_04 (01:00:39):
Well, you are a bit of a wino, but okay, yeah.
No, go over to Reckon Cells.
They also have fruit over there.
Um, awesome, awesome family,awesome company.
Uh, they ship to most states.
There's a couple that they don'tthey might be able to ship the
fruit to the states that theycan't ship the wine, though.
So check that out.
So yeah.
So Reckons and Cells.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:59):
Talking about the Requisite Catholics next week.
SPEAKER_04 (01:01:02):
Oh, so next week we're doing a show on the um the
reign of uh Queen Mary, right?
Like we're gonna we're gonnatalk about the Reckies and
Catholics.
That so when when Elizabeth diesand Mary comes into power, and
that whole time period, we'regonna we're gonna be discussing
the the the almost reversal ofthe Protestant Reformation in
(01:01:26):
England.
Like that that period where MaryTudor comes back in, and we're
gonna get into that a littlebit.
So I think we'll do uh anepisode on that, and we'll we'll
be discussing where the nameReckison comes from.
How to pronounce it properly,how to pronounce it properly,
and uh Grant knows how manylanguages.
SPEAKER_03 (01:01:44):
Yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_04 (01:01:46):
So all right, so that'll be next Tuesday, guys.
Um, if you're not localsmembers, please please support
us on locals.
That's the best way to help us.
SPEAKER_03 (01:01:54):
Okay, and we're gonna go over to locals.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:57):
102 take three.
Action, please.
A bottle of recusant cellarspetit verdeaux is one of the few
things that can make me standwatching avoiding Babylon.
Use code base, that is B A S E Dat checkout.
If I died today, tomorrow you would come on here
and use my death to promote avoting Babylon.
SPEAKER_04 (00:17):
Yeah.
So Rob passes on Tuesday.
There's no show Tuesday orThursday.
So the third show, the followingTuesday, the hunt begins for
your replacement.
And I'll do auditions.
This is a bad idea.
Yeah, dude.
Even if that gave me an800-pound squat, man, I don't
know, man.
Uh Joshua Charles.
(00:38):
What on earth is he talkingabout?
SPEAKER_03 (00:40):
Send out inviting to all the current you know
podcasters, inviting them on.
Make sure not to send one toTrent.
SPEAKER_02 (00:48):
Sorry, Rob.
I want that co-host spot.
SPEAKER_04 (00:51):
So Wagner won the spot.
Wait, wait, was this planned?
No.
Wait, this was this was notplanned.
Rob forgot to take the introvideo down from the last
episode, but we did discuss ifRob goes, who's I'm gonna find
his replacement overnight.
(01:11):
And Rob's gone, guys.
I hate to break it to you, butRob and I.
It's me and Wagner.
Wagner won the spot, he got thegolden ticket.
That's it.
Um the Broy problem avoidingBabylon.
The uh the okay, so uh Rob isfeeling a little under the
weather.
Um, I wanted to talk about acouple of things tonight, and I
(01:34):
think if Wagner was probably theperfect perfect person to bring
on for do you hear an echo inthis in this room?
Because I moved some thingsaround in my in my studio and
sounds echoey over here.
But um, so okay, so I had a abunch of stuff I wanted to get
into tonight.
One was uh Stupenville is istalking about merging their
diocese uh with Cleveland, Ithink.
(01:56):
And uh I had some comments on onuh Scott Hahn that Thursday
didn't really he wasn't crazyabout.
Uh so I figured we'd talk aboutthat a little.
Then Rod Dreer wrote an articleabout his trip to DC and talking
about the Groipers, uh, and how40% of the zoomers that work in
(02:17):
DC are all secret NickFalenthouse games.
SPEAKER_02 (02:20):
I need to be I need to be so careful with uh what
what I say about that, but youknow, Dre or I I was reading
that earlier and I was like hehe really has no idea.
Like he's he's just like in he'sjust in his own world uh right
there, and it he makes no sensewhen he's commenting on the
groupers and you know theirplacement and in like political
(02:42):
positions.
He's just he's just got no idea.
It's it's so crazy.
SPEAKER_04 (02:47):
The other thing is I think that Catholic Inc.
has no idea how much groupershas infiltrated their realm.
Um, there's there's a lot ofthis going on right now.
So look, I have this theory thatum all the older guys I see like
freaking out about Fuentes, andI'm not just talking about like
(03:07):
anybody that dislikes them, I'mtalking about the guys who are
like publicly like saying stuffabout the dangers of Fuentes and
all that stuff.
These are the same guys who allbelieve in evolution, they all
flip out if you question themoon landing, and they all end
them.
SPEAKER_02 (03:26):
I know you're you're getting a little darker right
now.
SPEAKER_04 (03:28):
I didn't know that you were going back to the
world.
It's evolution, the moonlanding.
Um, and what's the other one,man?
Um, what was the other one?
It was evolution, the moonlanding.
There's like me, there's thisoh, and aliens.
They all believe that there'spossibility of aliens out there.
Like it's something about likethe the the propaganda they all
(03:50):
received that they all hold tothose narratives.
Like they're all just they getupset when you question their
their their their narrative.
So we'll get we're going to getinto that.
Um, and uh I have a bunch ofother things that I want to talk
about too, but we'll see wheretime leads us.
So why don't we start off withthe Stubenville story?
(04:11):
Yeah.
Um, so Steubenville basically isum considering merging their
diocese with um let me just see.
I want to make sure I have thestory right.
Uh sorry guys, when Rob's nothere, things uh I'm gonna pull
up what I wrote and then andthen uh share what Thursday
(04:33):
said.
So let's see what we got here.
Uh let's see.
This is oh man, this new thisnew chat for um dude.
SPEAKER_02 (04:45):
That could have been that could have been so bad, you
know, you showing your your yourDMs.
SPEAKER_04 (04:51):
I pulled it down just in case, but like the way
the new chat is working, Ireally don't like it.
Uh I'm gonna stop screen sharethere and then restart it.
Dude, I don't like the way thenew chat is set up.
All right, let's go with this.
Okay, this should work.
Let's see.
Okay, at the stage.
(05:12):
Okay.
So uh the Saint Paul, all right.
So I wrote, I got news for youguys.
So I was talking about theSteubenville diocese.
Now, if they merge, and I said,I got news for you guys.
Once Scott Hahn retires orpasses on, there is no
Steubenville.
Say the St.
Paul Center will also closedown.
There is no clear successor tothe Han legacy, nobody has his
charisma or ability tocaptivate.
So now I was a subscriber to theEmmaus Road thing he had, and I
(05:38):
I subscribed to it because Iwanted to hear his talks, and
then I figured I'd cruise aroundthat site to try to find
somebody else that I might enjoytheir talk.
There isn't really a singleperson on there that I found
like, oh, I can't wait to seewhat else they put out.
And a couple of people werelike, Oh, what about John
Bergsmo?
What about and I'm like, Bergsmois just as old as Scott Hahn,
(05:58):
and he's going to be retiring orstepping down around the same
time.
So Thursday said the same thesame poll center is great, but
it's not the center ofSteubenville.
And there are lots of otherthings that can survive Scott.
The College of St.
Joseph, the worker, FirstFridays on the fourth, uh, the
community life, creatorconference, Mark Nelson,
Franciscan University,regardless of its problems,
(06:18):
gonna hold growth.
Uh, if you don't live here, youdon't know what we need or what
we are doing.
Now, here's the thing (06:23):
um, I don't live there.
Thursday would definitely have abetter perspective on this with
me.
My point is that Scott Hahnhimself, people may not be going
in droves to Steubenvillebecause of Scott Hahn, but Scott
Hahn brings a certain level ofprestige to Steubenville.
He drives donors there, heattracts other professors that
(06:45):
they want to come and teachthere because they know Scott
Hahn is there.
Now, you already had Frad leave.
Once Scott leaves, I just thinkthey're going to have a bit of a
problem over there, especiallyonce this diocese gets merged
with Cleveland.
I don't see how they maintaintheir unique Catholic identity.
It's not really the epicenter ofCatholicism in the States.
(07:08):
Like, right, it's for the past25 years, it's kind of had that
reputation of being theepicenter of like of Catholicism
because you had everything goingon at Franciscan, and they were
very closely related to theCatholic Inc.
crowd.
So all the guys at Stubenvillewould run through Frad show,
they'd have good associationswith Trent and Catholic answers,
and they kind of like fed off ofeach other.
(07:29):
And I I think they're going tobe in trouble when Scott steps
down.
SPEAKER_02 (07:33):
Um, yeah, I don't know.
I could see from at least myknowledge of like kind of some
of the dealings of Emma, St.
Paul's Center, you know, thekind of everything going on with
Franciscan.
I could see the argument forlike, you know, St.
Paul's Center, Emmaus, they'regonna have to, you know, somehow
uh change.
They're gonna get smaller,they're gonna, you know, there's
(07:54):
gonna be some issues uh theresomehow.
But you know, with withFranciscan University, I I just
don't foresee um a sort of rapidcollapse, especially because
like there's this weirddemographic shift of people from
the coast going into um actuallythe Midwest, and I guess Ohio
would be considered the Midwesthere.
(08:14):
Um, and it's it just doesn'treally make sense to me that
there would it collapse backinto being like a crack den.
Because that that's basicallywhat Steubenville was before uh
was kind of like well, it'sstill it's it's like it's 50
Catholic, 50 crackhead.
Um a little bit of a little bitoverlap.
SPEAKER_04 (08:33):
It's basically crackheads, prostitutes, and
catholicism.
It's yeah, that's the mix goingon there.
It's it's interesting though,because there'll be like a
really beautiful house.
Like we went there and we rentedan Airbnb and it was gorgeous.
And next door you see somebodyshooting up, and you're like,
Oh, that's interesting, youknow.
But the the the thing is that soif you read the Stubenville are
(08:55):
the uh the the article from thepillar, I think it was, they're
bleeding Catholics at threetimes the rate as the general
population, really.
So, yeah, so instead of likedrawing more Catholics in to
make it more Catholic, they'rebleeding Catholics at triple the
rate of the general population.
So it seems like these kids thatgo to college there, very few of
(09:17):
them are making their lifethere.
They're they're going, they'regetting their degree, they're
figuring out what they're gonnado, and then they either go back
home or they get a job somewhereelse.
But it's not like they'reforming a community that people
want to want to stay.
They do have some pretty cool umlike devotional things going on.
Like that first Friday festivalis awesome.
If you've never been to it, itreally is pretty cool.
(09:38):
But um, I don't know.
I I don't I just think,especially with the St.
Paul Center and the Emmaus Roadthing, Scott Hahn has dumped all
this money, all this donor moneyinto this project.
And it just seems like he hasn'tfigured out a successor to that
project.
And I don't know.
I I I because I talked to JoshuaCharles about this too.
(09:58):
I'm like, eternal Christendomright now, like you're the face
of it.
It's kind of like life site wasJohn Henry Weston.
Because we're in suchpersonality-driven times, yeah,
it's kind of difficult for athing like that that has Scott
Hanna's the face of it tocontinue on after he's gone,
unless there's a clear, likecharismatic figure that's right
up in the ranks behind him thathe's been forming that can take
(10:21):
over things and bring the moneyin the same way he does.
SPEAKER_02 (10:24):
Yeah, I mean, I think that this happens with a
lot of organizations.
Um, in the Protestant world atleast.
Uh, I've seen this.
You know, it happens in uhmultiple different uh
institutions, unless there'slike this weird thing, it's kind
of funny.
Um uh R.C.
Sproul, I don't know if you everheard of him.
Uh yeah, I've read his books.
Yeah, Ligonier Ministries, butthey literally kept uh releasing
(10:48):
books for like five years afterhe died.
Like it was literally for likeyears after he died, they would
keep releasing books ofbasically just like transcripts
and like you know, recalled outstuff that he had already said
and written for like years afterhe died, because that's really
the only way that you can keepthings like that going.
SPEAKER_04 (11:08):
Um, well, we're watching it with TPUSA, right?
TP USA right now, you'rewatching the face of the
organization past, and they'rein kind of turmoil right now in
mayhem.
SPEAKER_02 (11:20):
Yeah, I mean that this is this is actually I was
talking, funnily enough, uh,with the the groping of Catholic
Inc.
I didn't know I was gonna be apart of this since like uh until
like an hour ago, uh basically,but um the with the groping of
Catholic, I was just talking tosomebody earlier, and basically
my my sort of idea behind it isthat when it comes to Nick and
(11:43):
the America First movement, thethe Gruiper movement, like
they're kind of here to stay.
Like they're everywhere, they'rehere to stay.
Um, it's it's like a force thatkind of just you know, it's
you're either going you have tomake a decision.
Like if you're going to want tobe like a political actor,
you're gonna want to be involvedin these things, you're gonna
have to make a decision whetheryou like it or not.
(12:04):
And this is something that waskind of, you know, it was uh
taught to us from a very youngage with working with the GOP,
despite uh all of their you knowsupposed flaws, um, actual flaws
of the GOP.
Um, but we were taught that youkind of have to work with less
ideal uh groups or groups thatyou may have disagreements with
uh with things.
(12:26):
So you kind of just have to makea choice.
Like, are you going to work withlike Joel Barry, uh the the
Babylon Bee?
Are you gonna be working with uhyou know Ben Shapiro?
Uh are you are you gonna beworking with like this sort of
side of things, uh, which wouldbasically be like a sort of
liberal republicanism, or areyou gonna work with you know
(12:46):
this other um you know up andcoming movement?
But the one thing, and this thisis the reason why it was uh
brought to my mind, but the theone thing where this could
actually uh change is the veryreal possibility that somebody
just you know uh eliminatesNick.
You know, I I don't know whatwords I have to say to not get
uh this video taken down onYouTube.
But if somebody were toeliminate Nick, like that's a
(13:08):
very real possibility, uh, youknow, in this climate.
That's one of the I think likethe weaknesses of the Groiper
movement is it's definitely umcentered around Nick.
Like if Nick goes, like thewhole thing is kind of done.
I think that basically everybodycan kind of uh agree to that.
So it's it's a very um it's avery fragile uh thing,
(13:31):
especially you know, with thisknowledge out that probably a
lot of people have thoughtabout.
SPEAKER_04 (13:36):
Okay, so um it's been a little contentious on our
show because I keep talkingabout this topic.
Like I see the divide right nowin the church as being on the
some of the things that Nick hasbeen raising, right?
Like, I don't think we're facinga divide on liturgy, I think
(13:56):
we're facing a divide on whereyou kind of land on this issue.
And and my perspective is thatit's because we're heading
towards something where thisissue is going to be front and
center.
Um, and I think Matt going overto Daily Wire plays a big part
of that.
I think you're gonna startseeing two camps form, and it's
not going to be trads and novusordo, it's going to be kosher
Catholicism, which Stephen Coxcoined that term.
(14:18):
And Catholicism.
Because I see I see itespecially, I see it as a trad
issue because I see it allstemming from the council, and I
see it all stemming fromNostratate and our approach
towards other religions, andespecially uh towards the Jews,
and with that document with nostratate.
(14:39):
So it's like I'm I I see thisissue as the main dividing line,
and I think that it's becausethere's going to be a version of
Catholicism that softens peopleto accepting the Antichrist.
And that's just kind of how Isee it.
SPEAKER_02 (14:56):
I don't I don't know.
SPEAKER_04 (14:57):
I don't and you don't have an apocalyptic view
of it, but that's fine.
SPEAKER_02 (15:01):
Yeah, I I mean for for at least for me, I actually
think the divide is is reallyunfortunate because I'm somebody
who's more on the the right sideof things.
Like I've said in the past thatyou know I wouldn't consider
myself you know a groiper, um,despite you know how much I am
uh accused of it.
Um and but I do I do saypositive things often about
(15:22):
groupers and about Nick himself.
I I do think it's actuallyunfortunate that this is
something that is you know adividing line in the church, uh,
because I'm totally fine withactually like you know, believe
it or not, I'm actually totallyfine with working uh with
people, working with people uh,you know, in terms of you know,
apologetics, uh theology, uh,etc., with people that I
(15:46):
actually disagree very stronglywith uh on this issue, and we'll
kind of hash out ourdisagreements.
I really don't understand why.
Uh it's it's very confusing tome.
Uh, maybe you could explain itto me, um, Anthony, but it's
really confusing to me why thisissue in particular, you know,
we're having a differing opinionon matters of policy uh when it
(16:09):
comes to the way in which UnitedStates politics works, the way
in which governance works.
We have very different views ofthis.
I think as a sort of pragmaticmove, that, you know, it's I
think it's basically inevitablethat there is uh this sort of
large portion of uh groupers inpolitics.
And I think it's um you knownecessary to not just have this
(16:30):
complete, you know, hostilityand never work with them and
things like that.
I think that's completelyunhelpful.
Um, and then there's otherpeople who think this is the
worst thing since um, you know,the thing that happened in the
1940s.
SPEAKER_04 (16:42):
Okay, okay, but we have to get we have to get into
that a bit because uh likeyou're saying you're willing to
discuss things with people onthe other side, but they're not
willing to discuss things withyou.
Yeah, yeah, that's that's kindof how it goes, right?
So you're willing to have theconversation, but I don't think
any of them want to have theconversation because I think
they know they're on a losingside of this issue.
And when you start getting whenyou when you start getting into
(17:04):
some of the things that Nick isactually raising.
So, okay, so the way I see it isthe people that are like losing
their minds over this, all theirtheir all of their fear is we
are heading towards anotherevent like World War II.
Like that's their fear.
It's like I this has happenedbefore, and as soon as people
start getting upset with withwith with this group of people,
(17:26):
the next thing you know, they'rebussing them in into internment
camps.
Yeah, and it's like I don'tknow.
I'm I am like we are like thatis not happening.
SPEAKER_02 (17:37):
Like I'm saying if I thought that was happening,
obviously I would not be doing Iwould not have the same opinion
if I like legitimately thoughtthat that was happening.
But I think that's just insane.
I think you have to be a crazyperson to um listen to Nick kind
of understand what grouperismis, and then say, Oh, they're
gonna it.
This is literally okay, and Iwas just thinking about this
(17:57):
earlier when I was reading uhRod's article, but this is
literally the like 2016, uhwell, the 2025 version of the
2016 mean tweets thing.
It's like Nick says, you know,edgy jokes, he's he's like you
one could say, okay, he's he'srude to this person, you know,
he attacked this person when heshouldn't have, you know,
whatever.
He takes this position, I don'tlike.
(18:18):
But that is completely differentthan I think he's gonna go out
and his influence is gonnaresult in the death of millions.
Like that, that is those are twovery completely different
things.
I honestly think that when itcomes to the liberal, normy, uh
libertarian-esque republicanism,I think that's dangerous.
I think that's very dangerous tome, my children, my future.
(18:39):
Um, I think it's dangerous to mynation.
I think it's dangerous tocontinuation of my culture, my
church.
I I think it's very dangerous.
So I like I don't know why theyhave to make a moral judgment of
me of who I'm uh who I'm verywilling to work with versus not
work with, um, and you know,stuff like that.
It doesn't make any sense to me.
SPEAKER_04 (18:56):
Okay, so I I kind of want to get into something now.
I want to play a clip from GavinAshington.
Um I will not be commenting onthis clip.
I want to play a clip from GavinAshing.
You can comment on this clip.
I will happen, Mr.
Under the Weather.
SPEAKER_03 (19:10):
The medicine took effect.
SPEAKER_04 (19:13):
Oh, all right.
Um, I want to play a clip fromGavin.
Um, and I want to get intobecause this is this is I want
to get into the generationaldivide on this issue, and this
is uh this is kind of where Isee this this all stemming from.
SPEAKER_00 (19:31):
Um okay, so it was the sight of the Holocaust that
first made me inclined tobelieve in God.
For when I discovered what humanbeings have done to each other,
I really could not believe thathuman beings were capable of
what the Germans did to theJews.
(19:52):
Six million.
And this is a moment when I haveto say how much I totally
despise the Holocaust denierswho are sick, sick, sick to
their soul, who have beeninvaded by a perverting evil
(20:16):
that has darkened their minds inan attempt to somehow dilute the
horror of what evil did throughhuman beings to one another.
And if there is anything we cando today, it is to resist the
anti-Semitism and the Holocaustdeniers who have become vehicles
(20:41):
of evil and call them out forit.
It's not their fault.
I have to I have to interject.
SPEAKER_04 (20:55):
Um I like Gavin, but um this virtue signaling
standing up like I have to speakabout those who deny this event.
And it's like the most peopledon't deny the event.
(21:15):
We just don't care.
We just don't care anymore.
Like it's like we're just tiredof talking about it, you know?
And the the older generation, itwas I think they're too close to
the event, and uh it was such amain staple of uh of their
education, of the propagandathey were fed, especially back
(21:39):
when there was only threechannels to get your news
information on, and Hollywoodwas just pumping movie after
movie out on this topic.
SPEAKER_03 (21:47):
I mean, he he literally said his faith
depended on the Holocaust.
SPEAKER_04 (21:51):
Yeah, there's there's a there's this tendency
to think denial of the Holocaustis uh it's like they will treat
people who deny certain elementsof that event with with more
contempt than they will peoplewho deny the crucifixion and
resurrection.
Like it's a bizarre.
(22:12):
It's a bizarre thing to me whenI see people acting like this is
the like for someone to questionanything from that time is a
level of evil worse than theworst heresy on the planet.
And I just like it it upsets mewhen I hear things like that,
especially because there aremany people who make that
(22:33):
accusation who have very messypersonal moral lives, so it's
like they're they're judgingsomebody for not for maybe being
a little bit younger and saying,okay, like this story isn't that
that much of a myth-bearing loadfor me, and I'm willing to look
at it kind of like past events,you know, like okay, it's well,
what about the Hall of the Moor?
(22:54):
What about what about you know,they're they're getting unknit
for saying things like oh Hitlerwas based or something like
that, but nobody would questionif you said Julius Caesar was
based.
Julius Caesar murdered a millionGauls, and it's like if you were
like, Oh, I like the aestheticof Julius Caesar, huh?
SPEAKER_02 (23:12):
Have you met French people?
Kind of cooked there.
(24:02):
Yeah, honestly, um, I'm I'm bluepilled uh on those historical
questions that you brought up.
So before anybody gets tooexcited about that, um I'm blue
pilled, uh whatever.
But yeah, it is really odd to methat uh when it comes to people
asking, like there, there's thisinstance of all of these gropers
(24:26):
coming into these politicalcommunities, they're going in
and being staffers, and youknow, because this is actually
something that I think a lot ofpeople do not give Nick credit
for.
And I wish that Catholics,especially when we're talking
about church politics, that wewould be smarter about this.
Nick has always been very smartin mixing together theory and
praxis, where he will describe,you know, what he what his
(24:49):
political take is about this,what he thinks the plan should
be for this and that, you know,doing everything a normal
political talk show would do.
But then alongside of this,alongside of giving his hot take
about current events, somethingthat Nick really excels in is he
will actually go and explainwhat he thinks practically ought
to be done.
Like, how do we actually reversethis?
And he will hammer it intopeople's heads again and again
(25:12):
and again and again of like,okay, well, this is the issue.
This is what I think thesolution will be.
Here's what you can do about it,and here's what I'm doing about
it, here's what you know, youcan actually concretely, you
know, affect change.
And I think that for a lot ofthe older people, they don't
really recognize this.
Like they they do notunderstand.
Like Rod's article, I wasreading it, and he was acting as
(25:35):
if they were just gonna have acakewalk, you know, we're just
gonna look at all of thestaffers' Twitters and find out
whether they're groipers.
That's ridiculous.
These guys are smart, they'rewell educated.
Um, they've heard about this fora very long time of how actually
practically to do this, not getcaught, not get exposed.
Like these are these are peoplewho are working as you know,
(25:57):
like political operatives.
They're not gonna get caught.
Like they're they're not likethe uh the the YR uh group chat
leak.
Like those guys weren'tgroifers.
Uh they were those those guyswere just like random, kind of
edgy, uh, you know, youngRepublicans, um, which you know
they shouldn't have been exposedand uh you know had their lives
ruined.
But you know, these are not likethose guys.
(26:19):
Like you're you're just notgonna be able to find all of
this dirt on 30 to 40 percent ofthe staffers uh in Washington.
Like that's just not gonnahappen.
So I think the reality is like,okay, what what is their end?
And I think that Rod was justcompletely ridiculous here, too.
Where he said, Oh, they're justnihilists, they just want to
burn the system down.
Like, no, that's stupid.
(26:40):
Like, Nick will give thatrhetoric, but Nick Nick's
solutions in what's the one.
Here was my point the other day.
SPEAKER_04 (26:46):
I said everything.
I said, if these older guys keepthrowing the the the accusations
they are around instead ofactually addressing Nick's
Nick's actual arguments, theyare going to lose an opportunity
to to mentor these younger guys.
And and I think that's that thehardest thing for the older guys
(27:08):
is like, man, these these kidsare just they won't listen to
anything.
And I do think the youngergeneration needs mentors.
Like, I really do think theyneed mentors.
I think even Nick needs an olderguy who actually sees things the
way he does.
But and and what I've seen, evenwhen you won't look at the
portnoy situation this week, kidthrough pennies of portnoy, said
F the Jews, and and and and thekid gets in trouble, like
(27:29):
watching Nick come out andactually say, Listen, this is
not the way to go forward.
You cannot do this.
So people are getting on him,though like, like, oh, look, you
started something that can't beput in the box, and now you're
surprised by it.
It's like, no, actually, whatNick is doing is toning down
some of the crazier things hesaid in the past, coming about
it, coming at it from a moremature perspective, and saying,
(27:49):
listen, we're actually gaining alittle momentum here.
We want to see actual changehere.
Like, we do want to get AIPACregistered as a foreign lobby.
We do want to question whetherthey should the APAC should have
this much influence over bothpolitical parties.
We want to make sure that ourforeign policy is not shaped by
another nation.
These are things that we canactually do that we can address
(28:10):
and get worked on.
Um, so I but I do think that thethe issue is if they're not
talking about the actualsubstance of the arguments,
they're gonna lose anyopportunity.
So, Rob put this this post inthe in the um the article or the
post?
No, no, the post.
So I don't know if Dreyer orDrew how do you pronounce his
listing?
Is it Dreyer?
Dreyer, Rod Dreyer, Rod Dreyerwants to be a respectable in the
(28:32):
eyes of Washington elite.
He wants to prove he's not justsome some boy from Louisiana.
So he remains caught betweensympathy for the dispossessed
and loyalty to the system thatdispossessed them.
There's something tragic in him.
You can feel this yearning, hisyearning to be a shepherd to
young men.
But the world he knew is gone.
The young right doesn't needanother anxious essay, it needs
(28:52):
leadership, courage, and visionrooted in reality.
Dreyer claims the new rightwants to tear everything down,
which shows he doesn't quite getit.
They want something to stand on.
They have inherited a countrystripped of meaning.
Their rebellion is not wantondestruction, but the desperate
search for foundation.
They have they obeyed the rules,studied, worked, deferred
pleasure, and were rewarded withdebt and contempt.
(29:14):
They reject the system becausethey see rightly that it cannot
be reformed.
They have shed the Whig delusionthat history moves toward
progress, they knowcivilizations decay, and that
when rot sets in too deep,replacement is the only cure.
In this sense, they're closer tothe founders than Dreyer could
ever ever be.
In the end, his error is thatall of conc and is that all all
(29:36):
of all con ink and an inabilityto learn from their mistakes, a
failure to recognize that thenew right didn't cause the
collapse, they inherited it.
Until the goal, until the oldguard admits this, every sermon
about moral hygiene will beignored because it's the same
tired song of a beautiful of thebeautiful loser.
Like, that is actually a perfectencapsulation of what I was
(29:57):
trying to get at.
It's like They think it's likethese kids are just looking at
the situation, like, oh, we'rescrewed.
Let's tear the whole thing down.
That's not it.
There's it's almost the systemis beyond reform and implicit in
liberalism is its owndestruction.
(30:18):
And we're seeing that democracyreally is just a power game.
So Nick is talking about thingslike look, if we take power, you
don't want to take thelibertarian approach.
You actually want to use thepower you get to bring things
back towards a Christian order.
Like if we're not conservingChristian morality, what the
hell are we doing all this for?
SPEAKER_02 (30:38):
Yeah, I think that um uh a point that was brought
up there, and uh somebodysomebody had asked me, like I
there they basically they uhmessaged me and they were they
were like, Look, I don't get theGruper thing.
Like, why are all these guyslike what why do they follow
Nick?
You know, why do they join thesegroups of you know, these group
chats and no whatever else?
(30:59):
Like what why do they do that?
Like, what is the sort of likefundamental reason?
And I think that for a lot ofthem, like there's a certain
hopelessness that they have.
Uh, you know, they look at thestate of the nation, they look
at, you know, a lot of thelosses in the last, especially
in the last 20 to 25 years uhthat we've had, and they're kind
of picking up on you know ananalogy with what Trump did.
(31:20):
Like Trump was there, there's abunch of hopeless people, and
Trump gave them hope.
And I would say it was falsehope for Trump for sure.
Um, people can judge uh for Nickuh for themselves, but for a lot
of you know, the the youngergeneration, they they feel
pretty hopeless, and Nickactually gives them hope that
this is a way forward.
You know, people could argue allday that they think that this is
(31:42):
a false hope, they think thatit's not actually going to
deliver, uh, et cetera, etcetera.
But that that's sort of thereason why that uh you know that
they're feeling this way.
I think that's what hope isthere in like the Ben Shapiro
message like move.
No, like well, what what likeyeah, has Ben Shapiro ever given
a hopeless person hope?
(32:02):
Unless you're from Israel, Iguess.
SPEAKER_04 (32:05):
It's it's uh it's and it's even more that like
everybody's like obsessing onNick, on Nick, on Nick.
It's not even about like I'mlistening to what Nick's saying.
Like, I'm not I'm not a griper,I don't, I don't, I don't watch
Nick regularly.
I think I think that the thingshe's bringing up are super
important, and I and I'm alsowatching it split the church
right now.
Like what with Matt going overto Daily Wire and then watching
(32:29):
watching how his guest list isgoing to shape out, I'm a little
concerned with that.
I'm watching um they put DavidWood is is one of his next
guests, and I know they'retrying to put uh Protestant
Christians in who want to blameIslam for everything while
overlooking any of the domesticissues that we are facing with
(32:49):
this issue.
Like this issue.
SPEAKER_02 (32:52):
The way that I think if you're European, it makes
actually a lot of sense for meto uh focus on the um the
Islamic threat.
But like as an American, youlook at the sort of rates in
which uh Muslims are you knowaffecting domestic policy.
Maybe there's certain areas,especially like Minneapolis, um,
areas in Texas, um, you know,certain bigger cities where like
(33:14):
Islam is a big issue.
But like for me, I I don't eventhink there's a mosque.
Like, I don't even know wherethe nearest mosque would be,
maybe an hour from me.
Um, you know, where I'm moving,the nearest mosque is probably
like four hours from me.
Um, like Islam is notnecessarily like the big threat
for me.
Um, so yeah, it it makes sensefrom like a European
perspective, but from anAmerican perspective to fixate
(33:35):
on like Islam is like the bigissue that we need to be
focusing on.
That's very like um, you know,like 2001 George W.
Bush.
Yeah, George W.
Bush in a way that I just don'tI just can't comprehend that
being like the big deal.
SPEAKER_03 (33:49):
Yeah, listen.
I mean in the solution to thatis pretty easy to stop importing
them.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, just aborto.
SPEAKER_04 (33:56):
I mean, it's a simple simple solution.
People are saying like that, oh,they're just drumming up old
tropes and conspiracy theories,but I don't think that I think
that we're beyond that at thispoint.
I think there's enough going onwhere you even just see the
gatekeeping and how they'retreating anyone who even
questions anything, what they'vedone to Dave Smith, what they've
(34:16):
done to Tucker Carlson.
Like, forget Nick, just justpeople who have a libertarian
perspective on this issue, howthey're treating them.
Like Nick, I I think is bringingidentity into the picture a lot
more than those guys.
Those guys are just looking atit like, oh, we shouldn't be
supporting a foreign nation.
And I and and like that's likean acceptable approach to take.
(34:36):
I'm looking at it from the thenarrative that you discussed
with with Gideon yesterday,where you guys went through and
discussed the the the olderbrother and the younger brother
in scripture and going throughall those stories.
And I'm seeing it as Christiansare told ever since uh ever
since uh uh the World War IIthat they need to uh um love uh
(35:00):
people of all religions and nottreat them with any kind of
suspicion, but the people ofother religions are still
treating Christians withsuspicion.
So it's like, and you see ithappening in real time right
now, where if you even questionanything, this knee-jerk
reaction to, oh my goodness,we're on the cusp of another
Holocaust.
And it's happening not just fromthe people that we're talking
(35:21):
about, but it's happening fromChristians, Christians who were
raised on that narrative are alljumping to this.
We're on the verge of anotherHolocaust.
It's not, no, we're not.
No, we're not.
It's just not.
That's we're no, it's not,that's not going to happen.
We're not, we're nowhere near umuh a pogrom happening, anything
like that.
We're at a point where we wantto have a discussion on how
(35:43):
Jewish power affects ourpolitics and the way our country
is run.
And when we're telling you guysthat we can't, our children
can't afford, like, I live inNew York, my son is not going to
be able to afford to buy ahouse.
Trump comes out and goes, hey,let's bury them in 50 years of
usury instead of 30.
15-year car loans, a 15-year carloan and a 50-year mortgage, and
it's like, you are going to makemy son a slave.
(36:06):
I'm sorry, but this is not asolution.
And these are all ideas thathelp Jewish financiers and
bankers and things like that.
Like you're just amping theconspiracy theories up.
SPEAKER_02 (36:16):
Well, I mean, even if we were to take the the sort
of like JQ aspect out of it,like if I were to speak to um,
you know, normal Catholics thatkind of aren't even uh into that
stuff and are kind of more sojust like I have a sort of like
Tucker Carlson-esque sort ofview of, you know, I'm not a
pure capitalist.
You know, I believe that thegovernment can, you know,
(36:38):
intervene and uh actually worktowards uh the common good.
You know, I'm just a I'm asocial conservative.
I I believe that you know, a lotof these uh different
aberrations which have arisen inthe last you know 30, 40 years
ought to be uh somehoweliminated, uh whether on the
the state level or the nationallevel.
Like from people on thatperspective, I do think that
(37:01):
it's actually a losing game uhto return to the slop of you
know the Ben Shapiro uh sort ofcrowd.
Like I think that it's a couple,like, for example, Matt Frad,
um, you know, even Trent.
I I don't I don't think thatMatt Frad, Trent, or uh maybe uh
probably not Lila Rose.
Lila Rose probably is um youknow outside the pale.
(37:23):
But like uh individuals likethat, I have no I have no doubt
that when it comes to a lot ofmatters of of policy or
principle, that we probably havea general agreement, you know,
when it comes to we we just wantpeople to be able to afford
things, you know.
We want um a sort of socialcohesion, we want um, you know,
like the the moral um you knowfabric to be retained, you know,
(37:45):
things like this.
But I do think it's a mistake toautomatically assume that uh
reflexively, like we can't in apragmatic way uh sort of work
with uh you know the new right,that we just have to keep
working with the old right andgrit our teeth when they're
bringing literally only Franceprostitutes on to the GOP uh,
(38:05):
you know, uh national conventionstage uh to speak, or they're
appointing homosexuals uh, youknow, to run major departments
in in the federal government, orthey're downplaying abortion,
they're downplaying um, youknow, sodomy, they're they're
downplaying all of these uhthings.
They are uh you know onlyworking for the capitalist class
(38:26):
and they're completely screwingpeople over.
Like I don't I don't see, like Ido not understand, and I don't
think they'll ever be able toexplain to me why uh I should
have a uh a moral obligation towork with those people, you
know, because you know Nick hassaid this thing or that thing or
this thing, and he is sort ofemblematic of the new right.
SPEAKER_04 (38:47):
So, so like I talk okay, so I I talk to Kale on the
phone a lot.
Um, I just spoke with him um Ithink two days ago, him and I
had a conversation.
So like I understand hisworries.
Like, I I I don't I don't wantto downplay that, like, because
even with the Portnoy situationwhere like you do see kids don't
(39:07):
understand the difference ininternet culture in real life,
right?
Like, there's really noappropriate time to yell.
Like, if that kid would havejust said F Dave Portnoy, it
would have been fine.
But to just start lobbing F likeit's just a stupid thing to say.
You actually do make everyonelook like you are the villain
that they're accusing you ofbeing.
(39:28):
It's it's not it's not anappropriate way to handle it.
I I want to just talk aboutthese issues from both a
theological perspective and Iwant to talk about them from a
political perspective.
A political perspective becauseI think that actually affects
the future of our country, but atheological perspective because
I think that the entire churchright now, ever since the
(39:50):
council, is kind of in a in ahaze to this issue, and they and
they don't understand the enmitybetween the the people of the
old covenant and the people ofthe new covenant, and they all
and they're they're constantlytalking about uh even even the
people I respect on this issueare always talking about the
unification of of the brothersat the end of the story, and
it's like, yes, that's fine, butthat's not the point of the
(40:12):
story we're at right now.
We're at the point in the storywhere the older brother wants to
kill the younger brother.
Yeah, or the Esau is comingafter us rather.
SPEAKER_05 (40:20):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (40:21):
Where Cain is trying to kill us.
We're at the point in the storywhere Joseph is getting sold
into slavery, like that's justthe point of the story we're at.
We're not at the point where thebrothers reconcile.
And that will come.
And the thing is, there's likethere's a way that we have to
see this from a Catholicperspective, where it can never
(40:42):
arise to a pogrom and it cannever arise to violence, and it
can never arise to hate.
No, but it does have to, but youdo have to understand the story
properly and where we are in thestory.
And the thing is, I I mean, I Ican't help but but take take the
things that Maudsley has saidabout even the influence at the
council.
(41:02):
And and if you see the way ifyou see the way they influence
our politics, the idea that theyhaven't in they didn't influence
the council in the same way whenwe know the CIA was trying to
influence the council too, andyou know that the CIA has, you
know, that is that is a very uhit's a very Jewish project.
Let's not just say it like that.
(41:22):
Like that's just what it is.
And they were trying toinfluence the church.
Now it doesn't mean the churchput heresy into the documents,
it what it means is theylightened language, they and and
the people that came out of thatcouncil came with a different
approach to the point where nowin the Vatican you're seeing Leo
having sit-downs with 3,000different denominations of
(41:43):
religions and stuff.
And it's a it the whole thing isbased upon that narrative from
World War II, where we have beenconvinced that us talking about
this enmity between the peopleof the old covenant and the
people of the new covenant, thatand that built animosity, and
that is the reason that whathappened in Germany happened is
(42:03):
because of Christian animosity.
And and I think all of us havesubconsciously accepted that
narrative, and it's just nottrue.
SPEAKER_02 (42:10):
Yeah, I mean, I I think that that narrative is uh
absolutely absurd.
Um and uh I get I guess thatthat's all that I'll say that
the narrative about you know inGermany, uh there happened to be
these Christians and enmity withother denominations.
Uh, when when in reality it italmost seems like it was
actually the complete opposite.
SPEAKER_04 (42:31):
You you know what your problem is, you're still
holding out hope you're gettinginvited to Trent's Trent's
thing.
Like you still think you mightget the invite to Trent's thing.
SPEAKER_02 (42:40):
I wasn't given any special message of like, hey
Wagner, you're not allowed here.
I'm sure if I bought a ticket, Icould show up.
SPEAKER_04 (42:47):
Oh, I know you could show up, but you want to be on
the poster on the thumbnail.
You're not gonna ever be on theposter, dude.
SPEAKER_02 (42:54):
No, it's yeah, if anybody, you know, it's I saw
people speculating about this,you know.
If they want to if they want towhat what's why I mean to ask a
trend, I mean it's not uh youknow, no okay, wait, wait, wait,
but I will ask you this.
SPEAKER_04 (43:09):
I will ask you this.
Do you think because you did goto uh the creator conference and
you did meet a lot of peoplethere and you made a lot of
friends there?
Like I did kind of expect aninfiltration from Wagner into
Catholic Inc.
a little a little bit, and it'snot happening.
SPEAKER_03 (43:26):
Instead, they uh they uh what what's her name?
Katie Pregeen is uh speaker now.
SPEAKER_02 (43:34):
Well, yeah, I mean I don't know.
Kyle, Kyle, Kyle.
I I like Kyle.
Kyle is awesome.
I love Kyle.
Yeah, he's he's great for sure.
Um, but yeah, I mean I I didn'treally expect uh that much, to
be honest.
Uh I'm just waiting and seeing,uh, you know, just just being
me, always saying what I say.
SPEAKER_03 (43:56):
No, um, they can't be how it's pronounced.
I refuse to believe that.
SPEAKER_04 (44:01):
Uh Taylor said, Americans should own up and say,
We screwed over Gen Z, we wereselfish, they didn't inherit
what we had.
Let's help them.
Such a man with that humilitywould be elected president.
Yeah, it's like look, you seethe meme going around now about
the programs that Germany put inplace about families that kept
the wife at home and hadchildren, would get a 25%
(44:22):
discount on their home.
Like you would never seesomething like that from
American politicians.
And it's like, if we cared aboutour country enough, we actually
would do that because you wouldwant you wouldn't want to
inflate your population withforeigners, you'd want your own
population to I mean, for yourown demographics to grow.
Like Taylor's been hammeringthis down a lot lately, just
(44:42):
about the demographics in in inthe West are just on an insane
decline right now.
So it it just seems like there'snever any attempt in policy to
help the younger generation.
And there's the we're dealingwith a recipe for disaster
because when you have a younggeneration who is hopeless
because they can't afford to buya home, they also don't have
(45:05):
prospects to get married.
Because this tied in with allthis is the feminism aspect and
just how blackpilled all theseyoung guys are on marriage
because they don't see us likeman.
I because I've my son's beencoming to work with me, and we
have like a two-hour commuteevery day together where we
talk.
My son's 19 years old, and he'slike, and he went and visited
(45:25):
his friends up at college a weekor two ago, and he's like, he's
like, you just don't even knowwhat's what's out there, dad.
He's like, he just he's likebecause I he's he's like, I've
never seen degeneracy like thatin my life, like where the girls
are just gross, like the girlsthat go to college are just
gross.
SPEAKER_02 (45:43):
Well, I mean, that's not a Gen Z thing.
That's been like that for ithas, yeah, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_04 (45:49):
Yeah, so you you add that into the mix.
So these kids are are hopelesswhen it comes to marriage, they
they have no hope to buy a home,they have no because even their
jobs that they're that they'relooking again, and they're going
to college for four or sixyears, they're getting out and
they're still making nowherenear enough to provide for a
family.
There's no hope for a guy toprovide for a family where his
(46:10):
wife can stay home.
It's just you you're you'redealing with a recipe for
disaster.
SPEAKER_03 (46:14):
And AI is said to just destroy the job market.
SPEAKER_02 (46:19):
Well, I mean, I think what it just comes down
to, and this is why sort of likemy my main argument for why you
could never like you you couldnever team up with somebody like
a Ben Shapiro.
You could never team up with anyof these economic uh liberals in
the in the classical sense.
Because when it comes to theireconomics, their economics is
completely ordered towards theprosperity of of the few.
(46:44):
It's uh it's ordered towards umlike the material gain, the
growth of GDP of a nation.
Like that's what their economicsis based on.
Uh whereas when it comes toCatholic social teaching,
economics is ordered towards thecommon good, you know.
And if you don't have a you knowa politician or a political
movement that is you knowgrounded on that, none of their
economic decisions are going tomake sense, and they're gonna
(47:07):
you know throw us into afundamental uh tyranny, whether
it's the tyranny of debtslavery, it's the tyranny of the
way in which the job marketworks, etc.
SPEAKER_04 (47:15):
But how about how about our president comes out
and instead of saying 50-yearmortgages, say, hey, we're going
to cap credit card interest at12%.
So these kids aren't gettingcredit cards with 26% interest
rates.
SPEAKER_02 (47:26):
Yeah, how about just cap interest?
Throw in throw in jail everybodywho uh throw in jail whoever
made up the fact that we couldhave credit cards with 26%
interest.
Like, who who made these thingsup?
It's it's just so absurd to methat like this is uh like it's
such uh an abuse and like crimeagainst against your fellow man.
(47:48):
It's it's like it's worse thanit's worse than murder, um, in a
sense.
SPEAKER_04 (47:52):
The thing is, okay, so like going forward, uh we're
gonna let Christian go becausehe has to record another show,
and then Rob and I are gonna doa locals uh episode.
Um, and I got some good stuff Iwant to talk about on locals
too.
So this was supposed to be thelocals out of the show.
It was, it was, but I had Wagneron and I figured it would be,
you know, it would be I figuredit would be a good a good topic
(48:13):
for him being here.
Um let me just see something.
Uh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I got I got some good stuff overthere.
So um look like going forward, II want to get Kale on because I
wanna I wanna talk to the oldergeneration, and I and I wanna I
wanna keep the communicationopen.
So it's like yeah, so do ITaylor, right?
(48:35):
Right?
So I yeah, we both have weTaylor and I both have Gen Z
sons.
Like my son is 19 years old andhe's living in this right now.
And I want like so it what wasworse was the Ben Shapiro say
move away thing, right?
Like, oh, you can't afford it.
You don't deserve to live, youdon't deserve to live where you
grew up, you just have to moveaway.
It's like for people that forpeople like Ben, I don't know
(48:58):
what his family situation is,but I can tell you this I have
eight siblings, all eight of mysiblings, except for one of my
sisters, moved down to Florida.
The rest of my siblings all liveat home, like in in this town
where I live, right?
My my kids all have theircousins around them, they have
their grandparents around them,they have my and on both sides
of the family.
(49:18):
Like my kids have 50 cousins,and they and like my nephew was
over my house tonight.
My niece slept over my houselast weekend.
There's something beautifulabout your kids having their
family around, as opposed tojust moving them to the middle
of nowhere because it'ssomewhere affordable, and now
they have now you have noconnection to anyone around you,
you don't have family around.
(49:39):
Like, this is this is untenable.
It's it's evil what they'resaying, like, oh, just move
away.
No, I don't want to move away.
I want my children around myfamily.
That was everybody wonders why Ihaven't left New York.
It's because my parents arehere, all my brothers and
sisters are here, and all mynieces and nephews are here, and
I don't want to leave them.
Like that, we have a very tightfamily.
We have I had family dinner atmy mom's house last night.
(50:01):
Like, it's not, you know, it'snot something I'm willing to
just willingly give up because Imight save a few bucks.
So, no, I I'm not okay with justmove away if you can't afford to
live there.
Um, all right.
So to to to wrap up, um what doyou think uh happens with the
next generation of Catholicsbeing that because I'm seeing
(50:25):
the divide.
Look, I I see guys like Taylor,I see guys like us, I see guys
like you, I see us all willingto have this conversation about
this topic, and then I see thegrouping of guys unwilling to
even speak to us because we talkabout this topic, and I see the
factions forming, and I kind ofsaw them a year out.
I like a year or two out, I sawthem starting to form.
(50:47):
Where yeah, we've been talkingabout this for a while, for a
while, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (50:50):
When was that uh Philo's project thing?
It was like April, right?
SPEAKER_04 (50:55):
Yeah, and I think we seen it even way before that,
where it was like like the look,look, there were guys who were
willing to talk to me two yearsago that contact is cut off now.
Now, that could be because I'mbombastic and I've done shows on
Lila Rose and I you knowcriticize Matt for joining Daily
Wire, but it kind of happenedbefore that, and it's like I
they're they're forming a rankright now, and they don't want
(51:19):
they I feel like what Trent iseven doing with his conference
is putting together himself upfront with all the influencers
in the background and kind ofshowing like the this is my
posse, like yeah, they'rebasically being told like you
guys are on our side, and Ibetter not catch you guys
associating with those otherguys.
That's kind of what it feelslike.
(51:39):
I don't know if that's justfeeling it's it's me putting
conjecture on as you know, myown thoughts, but it kind of
does feel like that's that'swhat's happening right now.
SPEAKER_02 (51:50):
Well, I think there's there's two things.
Um one, I think that I woulddefinitely uh for for the
future, I definitely encourage alot of the politically
interested Catholics who are youknow genuinely right wing when
it comes to social issues, whenit comes to economic issues.
(52:10):
Uh I I would I would genuinelyencourage them to recognize the
practical nature of politics andwhat political prudence looks
like and how you can work withpeople that you may um you know
have disagreements with or youmay you know find problematic,
et cetera, et cetera.
Things that we've uh always youknow kind of practically done uh
(52:31):
with our relationship to the oldright, uh back before there was
the new right.
I would encourage them uh firstand foremost with that.
And second, I would encourage uha lot of the people who just
completely disagree with me andcompletely disagree with the
rest of us to recognize that uha lot of these differences when
it comes to uh you know thepolitical state of our nation,
(52:55):
it it is not sufficient, it isnot sufficient grounds for you
to hinder the work of Catholicaction just on this basis.
Like if you have somebody whodisagrees with you on this, uh,
you know, on this issue, you youshouldn't just bomb, you know,
the uh the effects of the churchevangelizing, doing apologetics,
(53:18):
you know, all of this.
You shouldn't just bomb uhpossible growth just through
this disagreement.
Um, you know, it's no, Iactually our collaboration with
these individuals isn't gonnacause another, you know, uh
1940s event in Germany.
It's not it's not gonna cause asort of cataclysmic uh fall.
Um, so there's no reason to youknow treat those with these
(53:40):
persuasions as a leper.
And I think that that uhdefinitely is in opposition with
uh you know the plenty ofexamples from people of the past
who have done similar things.
SPEAKER_04 (53:51):
I I I really I watched I watched your show with
Gideon yesterday.
I thought it was an awesomeepisode, you you Hassan and
Gideon.
I thought that was a greatepisode.
You guys just talking about thisfrom a theological perspective,
getting into you know the nuanceof the topic.
No, Gideon is obviously ofJewish descent, but he's talking
about it from his perspective.
Like, I like the conversationsneed to happen.
I saw Brian Holdsworth andFather Casey on today.
SPEAKER_02 (54:13):
Wait, he actually like not a groiper, like
Gideon's not a groiper.
Uh the groper is clear.
Um, but like I'm still friendswith Gideon.
We still do work together.
SPEAKER_04 (54:24):
We still they accuse Gideon of being a subverso, they
accuse Kale Zeldon of being asubverso.
And it's like Kale's like one ofmy best friends, dude.
Like, I I legit love Kale, and Iand I love that he lets me have
my perspective on this, and hedoesn't like write me off.
Like, like I talk to him on thephone, he knows him and I
disagree on this.
Um, but he he has some concernsthat I think are overblown, and
(54:47):
I think a lot of it has to dowith narrative control, and I
think stories are such a hugepart of this, man.
Like, like the way we see theworld is through stories, and
when you're molded and shaped inyour youth on certain stories,
they're just it's like the ideathat like you were lied to is a
very it's it's easier toconvince someone of a lie than
(55:10):
it is to convince someone theywere lied to, you know.
It's it's one of those things.
No, but Kale has someinteresting perspectives on
Peter Pan with it and you knowthings like that.
But either way, um, before wego, I wanted to mention um I
there's a young guy that calledinto Keith Nestor's show a
couple months back, and he was aProtestant kid, he was
(55:32):
interested in Catholicism.
He's from New York, he's fromLong Island.
Keith set the kid up with me,gave me his contact, and the
kid's been coming to Latin Masswith me.
Um, and I saw him this weekoutside of Latin Mass, and he's
like, you know, it's so funny.
Like, I started checking yourchannel out, and then I realized
like you have all these otherCatholics that I really like
watching, like Christian Wagner.
And he's like, So he's like, hereally likes you, he really
(55:55):
likes me.
And there's a uh statue of PadrePio right outside, and he goes,
Is that Padre Pio?
I go, yeah.
He goes, My grandmother was likeobsessed with him, so I started
looking into him, and it turnsout he's my fourth cousin.
So this kid is Protestant, hisname is Dominic.
His father is a cradle Catholic,his father came to Latin Mass
with me a couple weeks ago.
His father wants to go to dinnerwith me and my family, um, you
(56:17):
know, with all of us to just goand sit and talk.
Um, but his his fourth cousin isPadre Pio, the kid's Protestant.
I asked him what he thinks ofFuentes.
He goes, Oh, I love him.
So I think I think he'll get akick out of this show.
But uh the young guys, and alsoanother thing, funny thing
happened.
I went to confession at a novusordo parish the other day.
(56:40):
And I go in and a young kid,like 17, 18, I'm I'm there with
my entire family.
Some young kid, his name's hisname is Anthony, comes over and
he's like, Are you Anthony?
I'm like, Yeah, in front of mywhole family.
He's like, I can't believe I'mhere talking to you.
This is so amazing.
It's like I watch your show allthe time.
He's like, I watch you, I watchWagner.
(57:01):
I'm always hearing from youngguys that they watch us and they
watch you.
So I think awesome.
I every every time a young guywatches our show, they always
tell me they also watch Wagner.
So I think I think you and I uhlike our show and your show has
uh has a has has a very youngaudience, and I think we have an
opportunity to speak to theseguys and make sure anybody that
(57:24):
is Catholic, if you are startingto question these stories, you
have to understand your role asa Catholic is to never treat
anyone with contempt.
And I think that's aresponsibility we have as
Catholics to make sure thatother Catholics know yes, you
can discuss these things, yes,you can get into this topic, and
yes, there is a real issue here,but the way we handle it has to
be different from any othergroup because we're supposed to
(57:48):
love our enemies to the point ofmartyrdom.
SPEAKER_02 (57:50):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, obviously, you know,don't do anything harmful
towards um, you know, otherpeople unjustly.
And, you know, especially likein the church and within the
church, you know, don't um, youknow, express a behavior that is
uh schismatic.
Because remember that schism isnot merely separating yourself
from the Pope, it's separatingyourself from those who are in
(58:11):
communion with the Pope as well.
And that can easily uh you knowlead to a mentality where those
disagreeing on these uh you knowissues of secular issues, issues
of uh political governance, etc.
Uh, one can easily you know uhisolate themselves from the rest
of the church uh you know onthis basis.
(58:34):
And it leads it leads down somepretty dark roads.
I've seen it happen before.
SPEAKER_04 (58:40):
Okay, so um we will we're gonna wrap this one up.
We're gonna let you go becauseyou do have another interview
you're gonna do.
Rob and I are going to head overto locals.
I uh I have some someinteresting personal stories to
talk about over there.
Uh my my wife and I had anargument this morning, and uh
something miraculous happened.
(59:01):
That's all I'll say.
I'll tease you guys with that.
Something miraculous.
Close.
Something something miraculoushappened.
And she took never mind, nevermind.
No, no, no.
Nope.
She sorry, right?
Now we'll get it, we'll get intothat.
Um, yeah, and I got a bunch ofother stuff.
(59:21):
Something happened with uh withone of my uh with one of my
sisters, with a girl that sheknew going to confession for her
first time, and like the girlhad all this occult stuff, and
the priest got her to bring itin.
So we got some good stories forthe other side.
So we will see you guys on theother side, Christian.
Thank you for uh semi-filling infor Rob.
I knew once we got theconversation going, Rob would
have FOMO and jump in, but yep,yep.
SPEAKER_02 (59:45):
Uh, you're welcome, Rob, for curing your sick.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah, I'll talk to all you guyslater.
All right, appreciate you,brother.
We'll see you later.
SPEAKER_04 (59:52):
God bless you.
All right, Rob, take us out,bro.
SPEAKER_03 (59:55):
Uh, but before we go, I mean, well, Christian, can
we can drop Christian here?
Uh, do we want to talk about oursponsor?
SPEAKER_04 (01:00:02):
Yes, we'll talk about our sponsor and also guys
hit like and uh share the showand subscribe.
And if you're not localsmembers, that's really where we
always have the best segments ofthe show.
So join locals.
But uh Recusen Sellers, if youguys have not yet, go to
recusyncellers.com, use codebased at checkout for 10% off.
Uh there is very few companiesthat uh that are willing to
(01:00:25):
support our show, and thiscompany is phenomenal.
They have first off, their wineis amazing.
Like, aside from whatever theydo for us, their wine is
amazing.
Rob drinks it regularly.
My wife loves their wine.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:37):
Um, you make me sound like wine.
SPEAKER_04 (01:00:39):
Well, you are a bit of a wino, but okay, yeah.
No, go over to Reckon Cells.
They also have fruit over there.
Um, awesome, awesome family,awesome company.
Uh, they ship to most states.
There's a couple that they don'tthey might be able to ship the
fruit to the states that theycan't ship the wine, though.
So check that out.
So yeah.
So Reckons and Cells.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:59):
Talking about the Requisite Catholics next week.
SPEAKER_04 (01:01:02):
Oh, so next week we're doing a show on the um the
reign of uh Queen Mary, right?
Like we're gonna we're gonnatalk about the Reckies and
Catholics.
That so when when Elizabeth diesand Mary comes into power, and
that whole time period, we'regonna we're gonna be discussing
the the the almost reversal ofthe Protestant Reformation in
(01:01:26):
England.
Like that that period where MaryTudor comes back in, and we're
gonna get into that a littlebit.
So I think we'll do uh anepisode on that, and we'll we'll
be discussing where the nameReckison comes from.
How to pronounce it properly,how to pronounce it properly,
and uh Grant knows how manylanguages.
SPEAKER_03 (01:01:44):
Yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_04 (01:01:46):
So all right, so that'll be next Tuesday, guys.
Um, if you're not localsmembers, please please support
us on locals.
That's the best way to help us.
SPEAKER_03 (01:01:54):
Okay, and we're gonna go over to locals.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:57):
102 take three.
Action, please.
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