How Fatherhood Changed My Life (and Saved My Soul)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:08):
The problem with your ecclesiology is that there
are no leaders, right?
I mean, we have bishops.
We have archbishops, but wedon't have bishops.
Yes, we do.
I have bishops.
We have bishops.
We do have bishops.
My church has bishops.
We have bishops.

SPEAKER_00 (00:30):
Hello, my name is Bishop Sarah Malale.
I'm deeply honored to have beencalled to serve as the 106th
Archbishop of Canterbury.

SPEAKER_18 (00:41):
Bravo, Taffy.
Oh my god, Taffy.
Let's fill up that tip jar forTaffy.
Come on, this guy is just hejust kills it, man.

SPEAKER_13 (00:50):
Um, yeah, Gordon was getting a little cute today on
his stream about me.
Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_18 (00:56):
I was actually listening to that earlier.

SPEAKER_13 (00:57):
I had to almost like Gordon was getting a little cute
on his stream today.

SPEAKER_18 (01:02):
Was it him or Steph?
I can't remember.
It was him.

SPEAKER_13 (01:05):
Oh, it was Steph.
Yeah, I think it was getting alittle cute over there.
And not for nothing, Steph.
You don't want to start with mebecause I'll have a handful of
things to say about you, andit's not a fight you want to
pick.

SPEAKER_18 (01:16):
It's like, why is everybody why is everybody
throwing shots at each other,man?

SPEAKER_13 (01:20):
Come on, I don't get it because I'll be honest, like
I did the uh the the rolloutshow when when the Pope was
elected, I had Tim on.
And um and then after that show,I was just like, I don't know.
Dude, here's the thing.
Tim was writing it up to mimeticdesire, and that's not what it

(01:43):
was.
Um it was it's like dude,there's this thing about being
Catholic where you just kind oflike you don't want to like
this, you just feel wrong aboutlike going at the Pope before
he's done anything.
So it's like I it wasn't like itwas all look, I did see a lot of
people like after Taylor changedhis tune, everybody like got in

(02:06):
line.
That wasn't my motivewhatsoever.
Mine was just uh we got donewith that stream, and I just
like I was like, I don't know,man.
Like it just it just felt wrong.
That's all I don't know.
It's like I'm Catholic and likethe guy hasn't even done
anything yet, and I'm just likecoming out the gate like this.
So I was I I just had like aweird feeling about it, you

(02:27):
know.
It was it wasn't it wasn't thatI I was in denial about anything
Tim said.
I think Tim was a hundredpercent right, so I never came
out at any point, and we don'twant the show to be about the
Pope.
I'm just addressing Tim's showtoday.
Um so I never like came out andlike glazed Leo or anything, I
never did the Leo's base oranything.
I've always kind of known whathe was.

(02:48):
I I just think he's like aboomer, like he's just like the
epitome of boomer Catholicism.
That's you know, that's just myopinion on it.
So um, I kind of just likebacked off the subject totally,
and we just did cultural stuff.
Like, it wasn't like I wasn'tout there telling people wait
and see, I wasn't telling peopleto zip it, I wasn't saying
anything about Leo.
I was just every time he cameup, I was just like, ah,
whatever.

(03:08):
That's just how I handled it.
I just didn't want to talk abouthim.
Um, and then like two weeks ago,um, like Chris Jackson and
Catholic Esquire and stuff, theywere they were writing stuff
that I was like, this isactually important, and maybe we
should start addressing it.
So before Leo did his own thispast 48 hours or three days
thing, like I I startedcommenting on it again a little

(03:32):
bit and just addressing some ofthose guys, and it was it was
actually pretty interesting howlike I decided to start talking
about it again, and then thesewhole events just happen, and it
but it but Tim's not wrong inthat there is this thing with
mimetic desire where you don'twant to be the guy standing out,
being the only guy out theretrashing the Pope when everybody

(03:54):
else is kind of like chill, youknow.
So, yeah, that probably did playa little bit of a part in it,
but to write that off ascowardice, that's not what it
was.
It wasn't that.
It was just first off, there wasnothing to talk about, it was
just uninteresting.
Um, and I just whatever I justbut you know, but Steph can't
can't help herself and she hasto take a few shots at me today.

(04:15):
That's fine.

SPEAKER_18 (04:15):
I know the the the the cowardice comment is
definitely taking it too far.
And I love Tim and Steph, dude.
They're the godparents of myyoungest daughter, so like I got
nothing but good things to sayabout them.
I think it's totally normal towant to hold out hope for a you
know, a good pope, a strongleader.
Every man has that desire,especially coming off the heels
of the the Francis pontificate.
I think I don't know, I thinkthat was prudent to not say

(04:36):
anything.
People could kind of maybe seethe the the writing on the wall,
but you want it to hold outuntil hey, you have a reason to
maybe think otherwise.
And even when you have a reasonto say or think otherwise, it's
like, man, you got to reallypractice prudence and temperance
and going about how we talkabout these things.
I just think, man, I don't know,it's it's probably because I'm
projecting my scrupulosity oneverybody else, but I'm like,
I'm looking at Twitter and howpeople are talking about this

(04:58):
stuff.
I'm like, man, you guys need tobe in the confessional like
yesterday.

SPEAKER_13 (05:01):
Like, what's uh my my position the past couple days
was not even about Leo, it'sabout the way we're all handling
the conversation, andeverybody's kind of talking past
each other.
And I just think there's a waywe could do this where we like
work together, like there's noreason for the infighting, it's
so stupid and annoying, and it'slike this one's going after this

(05:22):
one, and this it's just sosilly, it's it's just stupid,
whatever.
Like, I'll never take it awayfrom Tim that like he was the
first one to go through thisstuff, and he you know, he
called it from the beginning.
Like, good on him.
I still don't regret, like, Istill don't regret the way I
handled it though.
Like, I it it I wasn't doing itout of fear, or I wasn't doing

(05:43):
it like Tim made the comment.
He's like, When did you get thecall that you're allowed to talk
about?
Like, are you come on, stop it,stop it?

SPEAKER_18 (05:48):
Like, it's just like locker room talk.
We just gotta hash it over.

SPEAKER_13 (05:53):
Like, knock it off.
That's not what happened.
It's actually like three weeksago I started talking about it,
and then the Leo interview cameout, and I kind of critiqued
that a little bit.
And then the last couple ofdays, I was just like, All
right, look, here's the thing Isee a lot of new guys, like the
Pope Splainers, like justjumping into their reflective
Pope Splain mode.
And I wanted to explain what theseamless garment was and kind of

(06:14):
why there was this uh loadedenergy that kind of got let
loose by the Trads when Leo madethose comments.
It wasn't it's not thisanimosity towards the Pope, it's
that those comments were veryloaded with things that we who
we especially us who have beenCatholic under JP2 and Benedict,
like that that's a very likesensitive topic because we lived

(06:36):
through a lot of stuff that hadto do with that, and then so it
was just a a loaded it was likea loaded gun going and or a
powder keg that was ready toblow off.
And Leo said the perfect thingto blow it off.
So I tried to have thatconversation with the people who
were going into their oldFrancis mode of being, and I
don't think that's the way anyof us should handle this.

(06:57):
And even even with Leo doingwhat he did, I still don't know
what the proper way to goforward is.
I don't think anything waseffective the way we did it
under Francis.
Everybody kind of flipped outunder Francis, and what we got
was traditionis custodas, andthen he doubled down again, like
it was it nothing, nothingworked the way we did it before.
So I think I think we gotta youknow come up with a better way

(07:19):
to do things, so that's justkind of my position.
I says, and I honestly I didn'twant to even address the Pope
issue with you on the show.
I know you've been um you'vebeen going on like Father, uh,
who Father Dan Rehill.

SPEAKER_18 (07:34):
Correct.
I've been on a show like threetimes in the last month.
How's that going?
Oh, dude, Father Rehill is anabsolute savage.
I love that guy, just a super,super kind and but powerful
dude.
He's reminds you a lot likeRipaker, that kind of like
conviction and um uh you knowbelief and the whole spiritual
warfare exorcism piece isobviously very, very
interesting.
And he's just a good guy behindthe scenes.

(07:55):
He's like the you know, it'slike he's dude, he's a New
Yorker like you.
What you see is what you get,and I appreciate I appreciate
that about my my web my EastCoast peeps.
I'm I'm curious, uh, how did hecome across you?
So I think it was his uhproducer, uh, I believe her name
is yeah, Mary.
And this was months back.
This supposed to happen likeMarch, April, and then he was
you know traveling to Mejigory abunch of times, and and and you

(08:18):
know, we never got connected,and then all of a sudden, like
yeah, a month ago.
Um, what's up, Mrs.
C?
That's cool.
I you know, I could do sidenote, I could see how uh Josh
Charles just get locked got lostin the comments, dude.
It's so easy to do that.

SPEAKER_13 (08:31):
It is well.
If I highlight something, youcould read it.
But Josh would literally sitthere and just read the comments
and like Josh, I'm having aconversation with you, and he
he's addressing the commentswhile I'm talking.
He gets upset if I bring thatup.

SPEAKER_18 (08:43):
It's so funny so funny.
He called you up pretty good,though.
That was that was a nice littleexchange.
That was so good, dude.
Just legendary, yeah.
No, it and then it was about amonth ago.
Uh he just calls me, he goes,Hey, it's Father Dan.
I'm like, Oh, he kind of caughtme off guard.
And then the first show was justabout you know, you know,
fatherhood and you know,masculinity, spiritual warfare,
etc.
And then I made uh a post aboutthe sort of Marian connection

(09:06):
between the Arena Zarutskamurder, Charlie Kirk's
assassination, and theAnnunciation School shooting.
And then he called me like thenext day.
He's like, I want to have you onthe show again.
We did that, and I suppose youknow he he he took a bit of a
liking to me, dude.
He sent me this like package ofsacramentals, it's the most
crazy.

SPEAKER_13 (09:22):
Oh, that's very cool, man.

SPEAKER_18 (09:24):
Oh, dude, I I I feel weird about saying that publicly
because I'm like bragging aboutit, but it was very, very kind.
Uh, what he sent me, it was justbeautiful.
And then, anyways, um, he heardhe again, I think it was his
producer because I don't thinkhe follows me.
Uh, sent her the uh sent him thevideo of me talking about that
like demonic encounter that Ihad.
He's like, I want you to talkabout this.

SPEAKER_13 (09:42):
I I wanted to actually talk to you about it.
Somebody, somebody had said tome, Can you ask Mike to
elaborate a little bit on thatdemonic encounter?
So I'll say right off the bat, Iknow you don't drink, and I am I
am having a beard and I I don'tthink that bothers you, but um
you you have you have a um youhave a pretty wild so we never
actually did your conversionstory on the show.
We don't have to jump into that,but you have some demons in your

(10:05):
past that you're still wrestlingwith a little bit, I guess,
right?

SPEAKER_18 (10:07):
Yeah, you know, I don't really wrestle with the
the the alcohol problem reallylike anymore.
You know, there'll be a coupletimes a year where I'll have one
and the Lord is giving me thetemperance to just like put it
away.
And I think it's a grace to saythat like I actually really just
don't like it anymore.
I think truly it was a gracethat I inherited through you
know the Blessed Mother'sIntercession, the Rosary, etc.
But how this thing came about,and the dude, the the the the
conversion story, I hate tosound like somebody that's

(10:29):
important.
I'm really not.
I've just said it so many timeson like these different shows
that I actually liked that weweren't talking about that.
That was kind of more off thecuff stuff.
That's what I appreciate aboutthe the show.
But this encounter in particularwas was interesting because you
know there was some external,like whatever business stress
going on.
And then there was it was lastTuesday, uh, where I was just
again this gripped with thisjust irrational fear and despair

(10:52):
and sorrow, or like thesethoughts of you know what?
I should just I should justdelete myself and just get it,
get it over and done with.
Like, what's the point of allthis?
Like these just insane.

SPEAKER_13 (11:01):
Have you ever had those before?

SPEAKER_18 (11:02):
Yeah, I struggled with that growing up a lot.
You know, I even spent some timein a brief intervention unit
when I was like early 20s, dude.
I'm not joking, like over aweekend, it was like it was it
was wild, it was so crazy.
That's a story for a differentday.
But you know, these have beenpretty quiet for a long time.
Like, I'm a pretty like hopefuland like optimistic dude.
So when these kind of overcameme, I'm like, man, what is going
on?
And so this stress had like ledme to, I'm like, man, I'm I'm

(11:25):
gonna drink, I'm gonna drinkagain.
It's been like months andmonths, uh, but I feel like I'm
on this sort of like cusp ofdoing it.
And my wife was just like, I putthat woman through so much early
on in our marriage.
I felt so bad.
I was like tongue-tied, andshe's like, Please go pray.
You knew you have that you knowdeliverance prayers book by
Father Ribiger, please go praythat.
Um, and again, dude, I didn'twant to pray.
I was kind of stuck there, likefrozen, like on the verge of

(11:47):
like a panic attack.
How long how long have you beenmarried?
I've been married since 21.
So we were civilly married in21.
We've been together since 20 uh2020, but we get our marriage
convalidated August of 2024.

SPEAKER_13 (11:58):
Yeah, that I remember, but um, so when you
first got married, um, you hadyour conversion even begun yet?

SPEAKER_18 (12:10):
Oh, dude, not at all, man.
I was still drinking a lot.
I was a Christian, like lowchurch, non-denominational,
barely going to church onSundays, but we were both very
much still like believed inJesus, all that stuff.
My conversion didn't reallystart until end of 2023 when I
had my uh my second daughter,Serafina.
And that's when like thisthought uh came into my mind.
I remember being at a service,and there's these two questions

(12:30):
that came up, and I'll just I'llnever forget.
One was I think this was aroundChristmas time or getting close.
Said, why don't they evermention this is my old Catholic
upbringing coming up?
And it was why why don't theymention Mary?
Like, where where's it's justthis woman, his mother?
It's like, man, this is just isit just some lady?
It can't be.
Um, and then there was the thethe the the um monthly communion

(12:52):
service with the grape juice andcracker that just absolutely I
remember like throwing it in thetrash.
I had this this trash bag, andeverybody was just like throwing
this in the trash.
I said, Man, this is insane.
Even if this is symbolic, thisis absolutely it makes no sense.
I had no idea whattransubstantiation was, etc.

SPEAKER_13 (13:08):
So wait, slow down, slow down, slow down.
I gotta jump into this.
So, wait, now did you make allyour sacraments as a Catholic
growing up?
I got all of them except forconfirmation.
Okay, so you did go throughfirst communion and stuff.
So even though you weren'tcatechized, like you did have
like those lingering remnants ofyour first communion absolutely,
right?

SPEAKER_18 (13:28):
Okay, oh, definitely, definitely.
I did you know Sunday school andand I just didn't receive uh
confirmation.
That was the only thing.
So these old Catholic, this old,even some of the catechesis,
which is the very bare minimum,started to come up.
And I go home and I'm like, man,this is just I'm unsettled.
This is kind of this just pissesme off.
This kind of seems reallydisrespectful.
So, and then I kind of you know,I've been a business owner since
I was 22, and it's always beenmy thing, like make money,

(13:50):
provide, et cetera.
And I'm like, man, am Ispiritually providing for my
this was a grace that kind offell out of the ether.
And I said, I don't actuallyknow how to defend my faith.
I was coming into conversationwith a lot of orthodox, a lot of
Catholics, and I'm like, man, Idon't know how to defend this.
This actually makes no sense tome.
So let's dig into at least likesola scriptura.
So I at least have uh an ideahow to defend this.

(14:10):
And so it was actually, this iswhere I got to shout out Josh
Charles, where his eternalChristendom blog and New Advent,
I think everybody knows NewAdvent, where you go and kind of
read the patristics, you know,stumbling upon St.
Ignatius of Antioch, reading theearly church fathers.
And, you know, I remember justwalking.
My mother-in-law went to Turkey,and she's not even Catholic,
dude, but she she bought thisrosary for us that just kind of

(14:31):
hung on our our thermostat for along time.
And I said, you know what, man?
I'm gonna pray this.
Like, Lord forgive me if I'mdoing something wrong.
I'm gonna pray this role.
I don't know how to pray therosary.
I have no idea.
I remember watching thesevideos.
I do I do I need to do I need tohold it in my right hand, like
how do I do this?
Like, I had no idea.
I remember my nonna, my bee'snona, my great nona, would pray
every day, and I still didn'tknow how to pray the rosary.
So I did that, read the read thefathers, and I was like, I woke

(14:53):
up one morning, I said, I gottabe Catholic.
Like, there's no going back.
Like this sola scriptura dominothat fell was like, This is
indefensible.
Like, I cannot be a Protestant.

SPEAKER_13 (15:02):
That is so cool.
It's it's it's interestingbecause um, like I had terrible
catechesis growing up, but likesome of my fondest memories
growing up are my mom prayingthe rosary with me.
Like, I I I was I was catechizedenough, right?
So, like I when I think back onmy childhood, I like I remember

(15:23):
my mom putting us to bed, me andmy little brother Mikey, and
just sitting up and praying therosary with us when we were
little, you know.
Uh, that and my mom alwaysshowed us Eucharistic miracles.
Wow.
Um, my mom was like heavy intoapparitions and stuff because
like my parents went toMejigory, and like my dad had a
conversion in Majigori andstuff.
I know Mejigory iscontroversial, but my mom did

(15:46):
show us like the miracles of theCatholic Church.
So, like I knew aboutincorruptible saints, and I knew
about um I knew aboutEucharistic miracles
specifically, so it was I hadlike a segment of my life where
I lived as though God didn'texist, but I never was an
atheist, I was always Catholic,I would have always identified

(16:06):
as Catholic.
But then I got married, and Iknew enough that I had to get
married in the Catholic Church,and I had to get a dispensation
from the bishop because my wifewas Lutheran, so my wife had to
agree to raise the childrenCatholic, and she had to write
like but her Lutheran servicewas so similar to the Catholic

(16:28):
novus ordo, she was like uhMissouri Synod Lutheran that I
wasn't catechized enough to knowthere was a different, and I
would like sometimes we would goto her Lutheran thing and I
would receive, and thensometimes she would go to
Catholic Mass and she wouldreceive.
And we got married at 22, andthat lasted up until I was about

(16:48):
30, and then and there was likelong periods where I wouldn't go
to mass and things like that.
And then I had my my originalreversion was when I was 30, and
I was like on my way home fromAtlantic City, and I just lost
like five grands.
Like we went there for a worktrip, and I lost like five

(17:09):
grand, and I was being an idiotwith like girls down there, and
so I didn't like do anythingthat bad, but like I was just
being an idiot while I was downthere, like acting like talking
as if I wasn't married, and Iremember coming home and this
guilt, the guilt I felt on thatride home.
I was 30 years old driving home,and I come across Protestant

(17:30):
radio, and like I give my lifeto Jesus in the car on the way
home, listening to Protestantradio, dude.
Like, and for like a six-monthperiod, I don't know if I've
ever told this on air for like asix-month period.
I'm listening to Protestantradio, like I'm listening to
Alistair Begg, like that.
Uh Alistair Begg is like I uhhe's Scottish, he's a Scottish

(17:55):
guy.
Um, I'm I'm listening to likeall of uh like I bought an RC
sprawl book on Romans, likedude.
I was like heavily in theProtestant world for like six
months, and then I came acrossthis guy, Alex Jones.
Well, not the Alex Jones, but Icame across this black guy, Alex

(18:16):
Jones's conversion story.
And he it was a Protestantpastor, and he took his entire
family his entire church intothe Catholic Church.
Like he started reading thechurch fathers, and he came
across Scott Hahn, and he windsup like preaching these Catholic
sermons to his Protestantcongregation, and half of them

(18:38):
end up leaving, and the otherhalf come into the Catholic
Church with him.
So, but he that he mentionsScott Hahn, so then I listen to
the Scott Hahn conversion story,and the rest is history from
there, like that.
So then, like, I go and I'm onI'm on like the Scott Hahn
binge, and I'm I'm listening tohis priest conferences and his

(19:01):
like every single thing youcould imagine of Scott Hahn.
I'm like devouring.
Um, but then it like comes to apoint between my wife and I
where I'm like, wait a minute,you can't receive communion at
the Catholic Church.
And like there was this periodshe was before that because I
didn't know any better.
So now I'm like, we're going tochurch, and we're going to

(19:22):
church every week, and she'scoming to church with me.
And I'm like, No, you can'treceive, you're Lutheran.
And I tried to like argue herin, and she just eventually got
to the point where she's like,Well, I don't want to be a
different religion than mychildren, and I don't want to
not be able to receive it.
She so she went through RCIA.
Um, but it was like one of theworst RCIA programs on earth.
So, like, I'm fighting with theinstructor, I'm arguing with

(19:44):
like it was just a crazy thing.
So that was back when I was inmy 30s.
That and that was like waybefore my like second reversion
when I like come into tradition,and my wife has like her
conversion and stuff.
But I'm sorry, I'm cut, I'mcutting you off.
But so okay, so the demonicattack you're dealing with, you
you're starting to relapse intothose old thoughts you had when

(20:05):
you were younger.

SPEAKER_18 (20:06):
Yeah, yeah.
No, I didn't hear that storyabout your your conversion in
that detail.
Maybe it's because uh I need toget on locals and dust the
cobwebs off my wallet.

SPEAKER_13 (20:14):
Well, I always had like these little things that
I've never told before.
Like, there's like I've toldportions of my conversion, I've
never like really gone throughit thoroughly with everybody,
but I've I've had I've had morethan one conversion.
That's the like one more thanone.
And like I left the sacramentsfor two years when Francis first
got elected because I was sodemoralized, and then I kind of

(20:34):
came back.
But that that initial conversionhad to do with like this
Atlantic City trip and me likecoming in through Protestantism,
and I it was a weird, yeah.

SPEAKER_18 (20:44):
Well, you know, I dad.
I mean, I came back to thechurch through Protestantism as
well.
I mean, it was uh we'll get tothe demonic story in a second,
but there was something I wasthinking about the other day
that I was gonna make a I'mgonna make a video about this is
really interesting.
I overthink absolutelyeverything.
Um, but the the year before Istarted to inquire Catholicism
again, I got re-baptized in aProtestant church, as most

(21:05):
people, you know, most people dothat fall away from the church.
Was it a valid baptism?
Uh I from what I remember, Ibelieve I believe it was, but it
was just it was a re-baptism.
So, like, what was that?
I don't know.
I don't know if that's like aheresy or something you just
shouldn't do.

SPEAKER_13 (21:19):
Well, yeah, I mean, we believe in one baptism, but
if it wasn't done like yeah, youI I get it.
Like, I was considering it toowhen I first came back.
I was like, should I getbaptized again?

SPEAKER_18 (21:28):
My mom's like, No, you're baptized though, like
smart mom, smart mom.
Yeah, and dude, it was umthere's there's probably no
correlation between these twothings.
But two days later, my wife hada brutal miscarriage, like
horrible, horrific.
Like I was gonna tell thisstory, especially uh um Kennedy
Hall's story, tragic story withhis child now that kind of like

(21:52):
prompted this thinking aboutthis.
I said, Man, is this?
I was started to look back.
I said, Is it was that sort oflike a divine chastisement for
doing that?
And probably not.
I was talking to my wife aboutthis the other night.
She's like, No, don't you know,don't, don't think about it that
way.
Uh, you know, I know God doesn'twork that way, but you can't
help but wonder.
And it was like a year later,almost like to the day, I
started to think aboutCatholicism.
It was really this path becauseafter that happened, I I it

(22:15):
furthered and deepened my faith,what I thought my faith was at
that time.
I was just in awe of like themajesty and the this the the
power of God where he can snufflife out in a second and you
know bring it you know from thedust out of nowhere in a woman's
womb.
And I was just completelyradicalized in my faith at that
point.
Um, and then a year later, youknow, Catholicism happened.
So I'm like, oh, are thesethings all related?

(22:35):
Anyways, I probably umoverthinking that stuff, but
getting back to like thedemonic, the demonic story.
So yeah, all these thingsstarted to come up.
Suicidal thoughts.
I was gonna drink all thesethings, and I said, you know
what?
I uh I'm gonna go pray thedeliverance prayers book.
I've had it for a long time.
It's there, it's a it's anawesome book.
And Father Rehill sent me thisthis little vial of St.
Joseph's holy oil.
So I said, okay, I'm gonna I'mgonna bless myself and I'm gonna

(22:58):
go pray these prayers.
And I went and prayed theprayers, and it was uh I prayed
a bunch of them, but there wasprobably like the the prayer
against retaliation, perimeterprayer, especially the binding
prayer and the sealing prayer.
And then, dude, I'm not joking.
It was like somebody hit thelight switch and gone, just
disappeared, poof, out ofnowhere.
From grip like suicidal ideationto contemplating, you know,

(23:20):
relapse, which felt like it wasan inevitability, and then just
gone.
Gone.

SPEAKER_13 (23:24):
Yeah, for anybody that's never struggled with
depression, depression is astrange thing.
I only dealt with it one time inmy life.
Um, but the thoughts, like thedark thoughts, are out of your
control, and they kind of justcreep in.
And I like there was one periodin my life where I was like, I
never was at that point, but Iunderstood how people get to

(23:48):
that point.
Because like everything can begoing great in your life, and
you just have like no desire toget out of bed, and you just
like you just have this hopelessfeeling.
So it's a scary thing if likeyou're dealing with depression
and stuff like that.
It's it's it's like out of yourcontrol, it's something bizarre,

(24:08):
you know.
But um, so um that's so that'sinteresting.
So now you're so you you startcoming in in 21.
Is does your wife think youthink you're losing your mind,
or how the end of 23.

SPEAKER_18 (24:25):
So I'm coming up on yeah, I'm coming up on two years
of uh of being Catholic.
And yeah, I mean, she would sheconverted to Christianity from a
you know, she was born inLebanon.
So her parents were part of theDruze.
My my father-in-law had abackground in like the Maronite
Catholic Church, but they wereraised in the the Druze
religion, the Druze faith that'sexclusive to this area in
Lebanon, which it's kind of likea mishmash of a bunch of

(24:47):
different faiths.
Like, it's not fair to call themjust like a sect of Islam
because they take a bunch ofdifferent things.
So, anyways, she can and she waslike Hindu for some time, and
then all of a sudden sheconverted to like Protestant
Christianity with a friend in inAustralia after attending
church, and so she was obviouslyyou know familiar, she was
really you know, bold and youknow, um entrenched in her faith

(25:07):
when I met her.
That was part of the reason whyyou know I wanted to marry her.
And but when the Catholicconversation came up, it was it
was just and I went about itlike a complete idiot, dude.
It was like church history, youknow, all the all these things,
just so dumb, and she just feltshe felt so stupid.
She's like, What?
I don't even understand whatyou're saying.

(25:28):
I you you're making me feeldumb, and I'm getting angry.
It's like, how can you notunderstand this?

SPEAKER_13 (25:34):
The hardest thing for my wife was the no salvation
outside the church because um,I'm trying to tell her, like,
no, you have to be Catholic.
She's like, But why do I have tobe Catholic?
You know, and I'm trying toargue her in.
And she just the no salvationoutside the church thing was
just so hard for her becausethen she's her mind goes right

(25:54):
to wait, so you're telling me myfamily's going to hell.
I was like, Well, your family'sprobably going to hell anyway,
but like Catholic.

SPEAKER_18 (26:05):
To put it bluntly, it's like to tell you the truth,
you know.
It's a hard thing to explain.
That specific, it's hard toexplain to somebody what that
actually means.

SPEAKER_13 (26:16):
So she so she goes through RCIA, but then um uh
like and she's going through andshe does like like she does
believe the Catholic faith, butwhen I left the sacraments in
2016 under Francis, like whenthe father and the husband and

(26:36):
the priest of the home leavesthe sacraments, the family
leaves the sacraments.
Like I'm not being the priest ofthe home, and we stopped going
to church.
And when you stop going tochurch, like you fall back into
your old sins, you fall backinto your old habits, and so
does she.
And we had this two-year periodwhere we weren't going to
church, and when I came back, Icame back because I had like a

(26:58):
uh this nightmare that I was inhell, and it was so real.
Like I my soul was damned.
And I woke up and I I was it waslike three o'clock in the
morning, and I just like startedlooking on YouTube and I watched
this documentary on Our Lady ofFatima.
And dude, this thing like putthe fear of hell in me watching

(27:22):
this documentary, and I can'tnow I'm up all night.
It was a weekend, so I was like,I didn't sleep at all that
night.
The next morning I wait untillike nine in the morning and I
call my brother Joey, and I'mlike, Joe, I'm like, I am my and
now my cousin Eddie and mybrother Joey.
When I first convert when I'm30, I like bring them with me.
I my cousin Eddie and my brotherJoey are working with me and

(27:44):
they're driving into work withme, and I'm taking them through
Scott Hahn, and I'm saying, andthey're going to mass with me
for that period, and they'rethey're taking their fan.
And when I stopped going to thewhen I stopped going to the
sacraments, like it wasn't justme and my family, my brother and
my cousin stopped going to likeI was a spiritual father to a
clan.
They were all following my lead,and when I stopped, like they

(28:05):
all stopped.
And there was this two-yearperiod where none of us went to
mass.
And I watched this documentary,and I call my brother Joey the
next day, and I tell him Iwatched the documentary.
He goes, Anthony, I watched thesame documentary yesterday.
I'm like, Are you kidding me?
It's like I'm not kidding atall.
I watched the same documentaryyesterday.
I call my cousin Eddie, I tellhim about it.
He goes, You're not gonnabelieve this.

(28:26):
I just watched that documentary.
Like within the same day, me, mybrother, and my cousin all watch
the same documentary.
My little sister Chrissy, thenlike she winds up like going in,
like she has a deep conversion,and she goes and stays with
these pat the passionist nuns,and it was just it was so many

(28:48):
things that just happened all atonce that it was just like you
saw God's providence.
And it was just such a like a anamazing period of time back in
2017, and since 2017, like I theI then I find that but when I
find the Latin Mass and I wantto start going to the Latin

(29:09):
Mass, like there was thisdemonic reaction from my wife.
Like, I'm not even kidding.
It did not feel oh, mydaughter's calling me.
This might be important.
Yeah.

(29:36):
All right, I'm on I'm doing ashow right now.
Sorry.
My daughter needs money.

SPEAKER_18 (29:50):
You gotta do what you gotta do, man.
Do what he calls.

SPEAKER_13 (29:53):
My daughter needs money.

SPEAKER_18 (29:56):
I'm just getting entertained by these comments
right here, man.
These are you gotta you you guysgotta

SPEAKER_13 (30:01):
What comment do you want to address?
Any of them?

SPEAKER_18 (30:02):
Well, I'm no Mike's doing a great job interviewing
Aunt.
I think Ant needs another trip.
These comments are the best.

SPEAKER_13 (30:13):
Um, well, the thing is, I figured so we didn't
really like we were supposed totalk about this Anglican
archbishop.

SPEAKER_18 (30:18):
No, no, this is way better, dude.
This is way better.
I want to hear about thisdemonic reaction from your wife
because I mean we just wentthrough not that my wife had a
demonic reaction, but it was ajourney getting back to the
Latin mass as well.
So go continue, continue.

SPEAKER_13 (30:30):
Yeah, so it was it was I I wanted to start going,
and um sh there was somethingI'm not even kidding, I don't
know why.
Um, it was just she wantednothing to do with it.
Um, so it like and I'm taking myson with me.

(30:50):
So like I came across it byaccident.
Um like I wanted to go toconfession one day, and there
were the only place forconfession was holy innocence in
Manhattan.
So I go to confession, and afterconfession, I just walk out, and
there's a low mass going on.
Really like strange, but then Iwant to bring my whole family,
and my wife was just soresistant to it, and it almost

(31:13):
felt like there was like thispreternatural situation
preventing me from bringing myfamily there, and I couldn't
explain it, and I kept trying tolike force her and like tell her
and like explain it to her, andshe just she was like, I don't
know what the hell's going onwith you, but this is not what I
signed up for.
Like, she thought I lost myfreaking mind, like she she
really thought I lost my mind,and I wound up um giving up on

(31:38):
trying to convince her, and Istarted teaching my kids how to
pray the rosary in Latin in theden while she would be cleaning
the kitchen and doing dishes,and this went on for a while,
and like one day she like herfreaking heart just melted from
me teaching my child because mydaughter, when she finally
learned how to pray the rosaryin Latin, like she learned how

(32:01):
to play the Hail Mary in Latin,she was so freaking excited, and
she runs into my wife and shetells my and my wife just
started crying, and I was like,Something's going on here, and
she was like, I'll go.
I'm like, Okay, you know, so shestarts coming, and the first one
she didn't want to wear a veil.
It was like this this, um it wasso bizarre, man.
I'm telling you, and she windsup coming, and that first one

(32:25):
she didn't want to wear a veil,she didn't wear a veil, and I
look over at her like midwaythrough the mess, and she's just
weeping, like weeping, and I'mlike, what the hell is going on
here?
I didn't know what was going on.
I'm like, I don't I don'tunderstand, and I I didn't try
to like figure it out.
I just put my arm around her andjust like held her while she
cried.
She's just like my shirt wassoaked from her tears from it

(32:47):
and stuff, and then we wenthome, and she was just like,
That was the most beautifulthing I've ever been to.
And then it took about four ofthem before she like really
opened her heart to it, and thenthe like one of the most
beautiful days of my life was mywife just looked over at me.
Like, this was after like monthsof going to the Latin mass and

(33:08):
stuff, and then my wife joinedlike a Bible study with my mom
and my sisters, and my wife justlooked over at me one day, and
she was just like, I'm likedeeply in love with Jesus
Christ, and it was just like Iwas like the happiest guy in the
world, you know what I mean?
Like, just having it wasn'tanything I said to her, I didn't
convince her of my arguments, Ihad no sway over her, it was

(33:29):
just God moving in her heart,and then ever since then, she's
just been amazing, you know.

SPEAKER_18 (33:34):
The Latin mass will do that.
It does take some time, it was ajourney for us as well.
And that's a beautiful, it'salways our lady that gets gets
the women, and then it she drawsher close to Jesus and it's game
over.
It was it was similar, man.
We went we went a couple times.
My wife was wrestling with thekids, so it's hard for her to
really be involved.
And then she started RCIA, orthey called it OCIA now,
whatever, at our Novus Oro.
What the heck that's about?

(33:54):
Yeah, and then so after that wasdone, we went to Mexico.
We went to Mass when we were inMexico.
I'll add that too.
And then when we we got back,we're like, okay, let's try to
find.
We were trying to do anythingexcept for coming back to the
Latin mass.
It was in the back of my head,just just like you got to go
back.
I'm like, nah, 1230, it's soinconvenient, you know.
I was being I was being soamazed.

(34:15):
It is, and um, and I'll neverforget even her.
And it takes her, it was it was,you know, she's a patient woman,
and so for her to lose herpatience, you know, this was
this was something.
So we went to the basilica, thatwas a reverent novice ordo, but
it was just there was somethingkind of I don't know, I don't
know how to describe it.
Then we went to uh a novicesordo that was close to us, and
I still go to this priest, he'sone of my confessors, and I

(34:37):
think he's you know fantastic,he's great.
But we went to this mass, anduh, you know, the guitars and
the the tambourine, and youknow, there was a and I I I
struggle with even talking aboutthis because I'm like, man, is
this even and this is myscrupulosity coming up in real
time?
Is this sinful to talk about itin a disparaging way?

(34:59):
This is literally just whathappened.
We saw a woman in kind of like ait looks like she was
investments, she had like apectoral cross, and I looked, I
looked at my wife, I said, Whenwhat is going on here?
Like, this is so tenderism, it'sconfusing.
So we went up to receive, and mywife kneels, she she takes it.
I I kneel, and then the priestwas kind of caught off guard,

(35:19):
and he kind of like dropped theEucharist in my mouth, kind of
like just dropped it, and I goback and I'm just pissed off.
The rest of the mass, I'mpissed.
My my kids, they were likeirritated, but it was a
different kind of irritation.
There was like a spiritualirritation that happened, and we
left, and you know, they weregoing crazy, so we had to leave,
we had to leave early, and Isaid, We're done.

(35:39):
We looked at each other, and itwas like at the same time, we
said, Yeah, we got to go back tothe Latin Mass.
And that Sunday after that, wewent, we started going to the
Latin Mass again, and it it'sit's been completely and utterly
life-changing.
But that moment from my wife,and she loved it, you know, she
wore a veil, she wanted torespect the tradition, the whole
bit.
She go, she goes there, and uh,this was like June.

(36:00):
How long is the drive?
It dude, 15 minutes.
Oh, are you kidding me?
I know that's what I'm saying,dude.
I know you're kidding me.
Yeah, roast.
I deserve it, I deserve it.
15 minutes, and I'm talking tothese other uh people at the
church, and they're drivingthree hours, two hours, four
hours.
There's a person that literallydrives three and a half hours,
four hours every Sunday.

SPEAKER_13 (36:20):
And I'm like, man, you are holier than I lucky,
yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_18 (36:24):
FSSP Parish, the the priest was taught by Ripiger.
You know, this guy is justabsolutely base.
Two priests there.
The base one is Polish, one guyis is Canadian.
Um, and so the moment for her,though, it was that like that
defining moment was when our sonAmbrosio was baptized in the
traditional rite.
We're going through the prayers,the prayers of exorcism, the

(36:46):
salt, the whole bit.
I'm like, my mind is blown.
The whole I I made a tweettoday.
I said, Man, I why did they takethis away?
What like it blows my mind?
And so after the, you know, hegets consecrated to the Blessed
Virgin Mary, we're kneelingthere and he does the blessing
of the mothers, and he's like,you know, chucking holy water at
her.
I look over at her and she'sjust like gone with tears.

(37:07):
Just a mess.
And since then, dude, she evenshe even messaged me last night,
and there's been a conversationlast couple of weeks.
She's like, this has been one ofthe best things that's ever
happened in my life.
Like, thank you for taking me toLatin Mass.
I absolutely have never adoredmy faith more than I do right
now.
You know, the the the liturgy,the community, the the
reverence, and the everything.
She's like, This is like whatI've been seeking my whole life,

(37:27):
and I didn't know that I that Ineeded this, but I needed it,
and I thank you.
And I'm like, man, you know,glory to Christ for that, dude.
It's such a grace.

SPEAKER_13 (37:34):
The last time I went to a novice order was during
COVID because my son, so my allright, so what happened was my
son made his confirmation, and Ihad him in the diocesan like CCD
program.
And like I wasn't driving anhour to my Latin mass to put him
in that one, so I just put himin like the diocesan Latin, you

(37:55):
know, I mean the diocesan CCDprogram, and he made his
confirmation during COVID.
And I went up to the priest andI go, um, can me and my family
receive on the tongue?
And he goes, I'm sorry, I can'tlet you.
And I'm like, What?
I'm like, Are you serious?
I'm like, my like I've taught mychildren all that they should

(38:17):
never receive in the hand.
So my kids have never receivedin the hand, and my son's making
his confirmation, and they'retelling him he can't receive on
the tongue.
And I'm like, I'm so mad, andI'm like, Nick, I'm I'm not
gonna go up and receive.
I said, but it's yourconfirmation, I want you to
receive.
So he goes up to receive and hereceives, and three people in a

(38:42):
row behind him go up, they havetheir masks on, they put one
hand out, they go to pull theirmask down.
All three of them drop the hoston the ground.
Oh three people in a row.
I was like horrified.
Everybody else in the past islike thinking nothing of it, and
I'm just like, I'm watching thisdebacle during COVID of people

(39:03):
fiddling with their masks andputting one hand out, and
they're all dropping the host.
And I just I went up to thepriest after mass and I go, I
got, you know, I said I didn't,I don't want to make a a big
thing of it.
I go, but like that that wasdisgraceful what I watched in
there, and I was just so angry.

(39:23):
And after that, I pulled my twodaughters out of the diocesan C
C D program.
I went to my my Latin massparish and I spoke with the
priest and I told him the wholestory, what happened, and I
said, I'm not putting my kidsback through that program.
I want to catechize my childrenfrom home.
And he was like, Okay, that'sokay, we could do that.
We'll set that up.
Wow.
So I was able to I was able tocatechize my daughters from home

(39:45):
in their cat in my son'scatechism book in uh
confirmation class.
There was uh they were talkingabout um who is part of the
church and people of goodwill.
Now, who are people of goodwill?
It's Christians, uh, it'sCatholics, Christians, Jews, and

(40:06):
Muslims, and trying to insinuatethat they're all part of the
church.
This is a diocesan CCD program.
I've never been so furious in mylife, like you have no idea.
I lost it.
I I can't I'm not putting mykids through this.
Like that, I'm not putting mykids through this program.
It's not happening.

SPEAKER_18 (40:25):
That's all, but that's how kids lose the faith.
And that was one of the thatthat was one of the inspirations
for us to go back to the LatinMass.
It's not just for our ownformation.
I said, I want to give mychildren every possible
opportunity or no possibleopportunity to leave the faith
and every possible grace tocling on to to maintain their
fidelity to grace so that theirfaith continues throughout their

(40:46):
their lives.
And and and I I see that it'sstarting to produce fruit, dude.
Like my little three and a halfyear old wears a veil the whole
time at mass, just like hermother.
My two-year-old is wanting to dothe same thing, you know.
My uh my son is a non-cryingbaby at at mass, maybe because
he's a Latin mass.

SPEAKER_13 (41:06):
He's got an Omazona baby.

SPEAKER_18 (41:11):
Yeah, and you you just start to see those fruits
come to the surface, and youknow, it it takes a while for
the kids to produce that thatmass muscle, right?
When they're that little, yeah.
You know, you're sitting throughlike I don't know, man.
People are talking about theirlow masses being 35 minutes,
dude.
At ours, it's still an hour.

SPEAKER_13 (41:28):
Our high mass is like an hour for a minute low
mass stop, especially if you geta homily.
But let's be honest, an hour lowmass, I'm thrilled with because
the high mass is an hour and ahalf, and sometimes you're just
by the end of it.
Like, I don't, I I like a lowmass, and if they were there was
a 30, like if you go to a dailyLatin mass, because there is one
in Manhattan at Holy Innocence,and it is about 40 minutes.

(41:50):
I'm grateful for it.
Like, I if I'm going after work,I don't want to be there for an
hour and 10 minutes.
I want to be there for 35, 40minutes, and that's fine.
But if you go to a daily noviceorder Latin mass, it's 35
minutes.
There's no music, there's noanything, like you're just kind
of going through it.
There's no homily or anything,you just kind of go through it,
you know.

SPEAKER_18 (42:08):
Yeah, I went to uh I made the we made the mistake of
going to a low mass with ourchildren one time.
I'm like, I'm never doing thatagain.
That's a that's a that's a dailymass thing you do without kids,
at least at first until they'reolder.
Otherwise, you're just askingfor trouble.
No, it's it was uh it's sofunny.
I know I mentioned every timeI'm on the show, but like the
last that conversation we hadabout worshiping like a man, I'm
like, you can be trad and go tothe novice order.

(42:30):
I'm like, man, I'm like eatingmy words so harshly.
Well, that's that's kind of didyou watch Kwaznevsky on Math
Rad?

SPEAKER_13 (42:36):
Yeah, incredible interview, dude.
So he kind of talked about how,like, once you're introduced to
tradition, like it kind ofmilitant, like it makes you
militant about it, you know.
And then all of a sudden youjust like it.
It's not that you are judgingpeople who go to the novice
order, you want them to go.
You're like, no, no, no, yougotta go.
You don't understand what you'remissing, you have to enjoy this,

(42:58):
you have to appreciate this, andthat's kind of where it comes
from.
But it takes a little time tolike get into the culture of it
because it's a totally differentculture.

SPEAKER_18 (43:07):
It is, and I just I think uh I've heard some people
have some negative experienceswith some of the like the
parishioners there.
I really think this is mostly aprojection because we're so used
to um you know us beingvalidated, whether it's in the
participation of the mass orgreeters or people in the pews,
like that sort of like casual,friendly setting that you get at

(43:27):
a lot of novus ordos.
And people are used to gettingvalidated.
So when they go and they seepeople that are contemplating or
they're wrestling 10 children,they've got veils and suits on,
and they're more serious.
It's like, well, this seemsstuck up.
It's like, no, it's just you'reyou're just not getting hellos.
It is projection, and that wasus, it was projection.
And then I'm not joking, dude.
It it was such an interestingreflection.
Me and wife were having the lastmultiple weekends in a row,

(43:48):
we've been hanging out withdifferent families, and every
single Sunday since going back,there's a different family
coming up and introducing to usuh themselves to us and inviting
us over to their their theirhome with their eight kids, nine
kids.
These are some of the mostbeautiful people that I've ever
met in my entire life.

SPEAKER_13 (44:02):
Yeah, dude, it's mostly it's mostly Novus Ordo
Catholic people who grew up inthe Novus Ordo who take their
faith seriously and they'relooking for something like a
little more serious than theirNovus Ordo.
Like so, what you get in thesetrad parishes is not stuck up
traders.
What you're actually getting arelike people who went to the
Novus Ordo but like wanted to godeeper into Catholicism, so they

(44:25):
congregate at these parishes,and now you have an entire
parish of everyone who takestheir faith seriously, like they
they believe everything thechurch teaches.
So you're having your kids bearound other people who they're
raising their kids the same wayas you.
It's not like going to a NovusOrdo parish where a lot of
people that go, and I'm notsaying everybody, but a lot of

(44:45):
people that go just kind of gofor heaven insurance out of
cultural reasons, kind of youknow, things like that.
So it's it winds up beingtransformative for your family
and for the community there.
It's it's pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_18 (44:58):
And I have to give a I have to give a shout out to uh
uh Brian Holdsworth.
That guy's got like the patienceof a saint.
That dude is such a good he goesto the same parish, we go to the
same parish, and his family'sjust tremendous, the beautiful
people.
And he was just that guy alwayslike, come back, come back here,
man.
And I remember talking to him onthe phone, you know, about us
before coming back, and he wasalways so gracious.

(45:18):
And uh, I we you know, Karen andI, my wife and I have decided to
kind of be try to be that peopleto the that that type of person
to the other people in our livesthat we know are Catholic going
to Nova Soto.
It's like, hey, come here, likeyou're welcome here.
You have no idea what you'remissing out on.
Like, we're trying to extendthat olive branch and
evangelize.
Because if it wasn't for Brian,I don't know if we would have um
gone back.
It was uh it it it it is hard,at least at first, being looking

(45:43):
the way that I do.
Like, my wife's got a sleevedown to her hand as well.
We look like a gangster couple,we don't look trash, we don't
look trash.
No, you you you it's so funny.
People are just like lookingbecause we there's nobody at the
parish that looks like we us,and it's not about us, but at
first, you're like, Man, they'relooking at us like who are who
are they?
I'm trying to cover up,especially after that

(46:03):
conversation that I had with uhwith the the priest when I was
like, Hey, father, please likebaptize my son, and only we've
only been coming here for sixweeks again, and you know, Brian
had to be there to vouch for mycharacter and whatnot.
And yeah, he's like totallyfine.
He goes, But uh, were you likesome kind of a criminal or
something?
He's like, make sure you coverthem up, son, when you come into
church, don't scandalize anybodyelse that said, Yes, father.

(46:25):
And I left.
I was so I was so on fire.
I love that being called outlike that.
It was so good, dude.

SPEAKER_13 (46:30):
Yeah, I don't I some men like being put it like being
called out on stuff.
I you know, it's not like we'renot these, especially like a
masculine guy.
Like, you want to be told youdid something wrong and you want
to be corrected on it, and it'slike, okay, good.
I got a priest who cares aboutmy soul.

SPEAKER_18 (46:45):
That's exactly it.
And so every time you know we goto we go to church, we're both
trying to cover up as best wecan, and it's stuffy and it's
hot.
I said, But Lord, this is a thisis a penance.
I remember like briefly, likeyeah, you know, I I kind of
threw in the nugget, hey, youknow, I'd love to altar serve
because no, you're you're adistraction, like you're not
doing that.

SPEAKER_05 (47:00):
Yeah, it's okay.
Yeah, that's good.
That's good.

SPEAKER_18 (47:04):
That's fine.
I'll just sit here and and youknow, uh, you know, rebel in
that, but it's okay.
It's a it's a good thing.
It's a bit been a beautiful,beautiful journey, man.
Uh, that's why I don'tunderstand, and maybe it's my
naivete when uh I think aboutman, why is there such a war on
tradition or against tradition?
It just makes no sense to me.
And people can explain it like Iknow the answer, it just makes

(47:26):
no, it just makes no sense to meat all.

SPEAKER_13 (47:29):
It makes no sense, especially because it's
attracting young people, yeah.
And it's like there's such a ameaning crisis in the youth now
because everybody's so stuck ontheir devices, and um they're
looking for something real, andthere's something so real about

(47:52):
the liturgy that's beencelebrated for a thousand years,
you know.
It's like it's like taking atime capsule or time machine
into the Middle Ages, and you'reseeing something so different
than you're than you'represented by the culture, so it
is countercultural to everythingwe know, and it's this awesome

(48:13):
tool for evangelization, andthey just don't care.
And it's you know, I asked thequestion the other day what do
you think is the motive drivingthe men who are restricting this
thing?
Like, what do you think is theactual motive behind it?
Because it could seem demonic.
Um, like I I I I can't I have ahard time putting good motives

(48:35):
on the men who are restrictingthis stuff, um, but there's
something not normal about themwanting to take this beautiful
thing that is attracting youngpeople and setting these young
people on fire for the faith,and they want to then like the
people that love it, then wantto go and bring others to it.

(48:57):
It's you have this beautiful,amazing tool for evangelization,
and you're trying to stifle it.
And I'm I I mean, what do youthink is the motivation behind
that?

SPEAKER_18 (49:06):
I think on one hand, there's I mean, the demonic
argument has to be there.
There's probably some of that.
I think the other piece is uhprobably just naivety and and
men being a product of theculture that they were raised up
in.
You know, a lot of people, Ithink it this was um this was uh
Dr.
Kozineschi, I think that's howyou pronounce his name,
mentioned this too.
Is that a lot of them just trulybelieve that you just got he
said and it was great, you got anovice harder, novus ordo

(49:29):
harder, like and they fully havebought into that whole spirit of
the age thing where it's like notradition is a war against this
thing that you know shouldchange with the culture to bring
more people into it.
And um, but then okay, I I canunderstand that to a degree,
even though you know whatwhatever.
But on the other hand, it'slike, well, why are you making

(49:50):
the lives of these peopledeliberately harder?
Like, you know, yeah, them beingrelegated to a parish that's
purposely too small or you know,further away, you're like, But
why does this this seems to melike you're you're slapping them
in the face, like this is notjust you want people to come
into this new version of thechurch or whatever that you're
like chastising them.
It's like why, you know, and andthe reason this comes to mind
too is that our archbishop movedto actually my hometown.

(50:12):
He was relocated because theother guy stepped down.
And Canada, we haven't reallyhad any of these problems.
As woke and liberal as Canada uhis, uh, unfortunately, uh, it we
actually have decent bishopsthat just don't restrict the
Latin mass.
There hasn't been this kind ofargument, but we we don't have
uh an archbishop right now, wedon't have a bishop right now.
So I'm like, man, could this bea possibility that if we get

(50:33):
somebody that then well you'reyou're you're in a fraternity
parish, I think you'll be okay.
Yeah, I think it'll be fineultimately, even if the 1230
sticks, we don't get a bigger,you know, a bigger um church and
different times, it doesn'tmatter.
It just you you start to kind ofthink about these things.
I really feel for the people oflike North Carolina.
It's just like that's thatgrieves my heart to think about
that.

SPEAKER_13 (50:51):
It's Charlotte.
I mean, I saw Nick Cabazzos putout a video the other day that
um uh I don't know if it wasGarcia, he was leaving LA and he
shut down the Latin mass allover, and then he comes into
Texas and he starts shuttingthem down in Texas, and it's
like you know, you have thesestable communities where people
like it's just it's just evil.

(51:14):
I don't know.
I don't see any I don't see anyway around it.
It's evil, and it's because it'sit so contradicts their idea of
what Catholicism is.
They hate pre-conciliarCatholicism, they hate it.

SPEAKER_18 (51:27):
Yeah, yeah.
And I mean you can see why, youknow, a lot of people with
their, I guess, throughemotionality and and whatever,
all the CEDAs are gonna get madat me.
It leads them to City Vicantismor whatever.
Um, you know, it's really funnythough, too, on a on a different
note.
I remember having thisconversation last week when I
was at this person's acreage,they're nine kids and whatever,
and the topic of the SSPX cameup.
And it's so funny how like whenyou're a new Catholic, you kind

(51:49):
of get brainwashed on what theSSPX is or isn't.
And as you become sort of morelike traditional minded, you're
like, man, these people are likeunnecessarily, you know, like
hurled at.
They're schismatic, they'rethis, they're that.
They don't realize that thesignificance of you know, uh,
Marcel.
Most of them are just Catholic,man.
Very the formation of thoseyoung men in seminary is in it,

(52:11):
it's insane.
And the the piety of the peoplethat go to these pairs.
We have one that's like an houraway.
I've never been, but like Isaid, if our Latin mass ever got
shut down, I'm like, I'm goingthere, dude.

SPEAKER_13 (52:20):
You know, you know what you don't see with the
SSPX, you don't see theirpriests being e-priests and
dancing on TikTok and thingslike that.
Yeah, you know, they don't theydon't have that uh crazy desire
for attention, and it's like Idon't know, they seem pretty,
pretty grounded to me.

SPEAKER_18 (52:38):
I mean, you saw that Jubilee where they they I think
they were at the Vatican, thepilgrimage.
It's like those are likestrapping young men entering the
seminary.
Like, dude, it kind of lightsyou on fire.
And I think that's the directionthe church is headed in.
I don't know.
I'm maybe I'm drinking or uhsmoking too much hopium, but I I
think that's I think that'swhere it's I think that's where
it's headed, dude.
Maybe it's because I'm a newCatholic, relatively new
Catholic, and I'm kind of wetbehind the ears still.

(52:59):
But you know, you want to youknow have some semblance of
hope.

SPEAKER_13 (53:02):
Yeah, I think I think hope hope is is important
for us.
Um, okay, so here's what we'regoing to do.
We are going to, I said thefirst hour we were gonna kind of
just riff.
The second hour we're going toopen it up to we never even
talked about the freakingAnglican archbishop.

SPEAKER_18 (53:18):
Yeah, I mean that's kind of whatever.

SPEAKER_13 (53:20):
Uh I just I actually thought it was it's like no
matter how crazy things seem inthe Catholic Church, um you get
you see what is going on inother places, and you're like,
all right, we still we stillthere's still some kind of like
Jesus Christ is still protectinghis church, like there's the

(53:43):
level of craziness that's goingon in other places is not
happening here.
We're not having female priests,we're not it's just thank god
he's still you know preventinganything from going that off the
wall.
So we could still that that waskind of you know how I how I saw
it.
It's the the they have justcompletely gone off the rails
over there.

SPEAKER_18 (54:03):
I mean, I there's nothing new to be said about
this type of thing.
I mean, it's just the the thethe product of of Protestantism.
This is just this is just whathappens.
I mean, wait, I'm not surprised,you know.
So I mean that's that's why wedidn't touch on it very much
because there's not much to sayabout that.
You're like, yeah, it'sridiculous, but what else do you
expect?

SPEAKER_13 (54:21):
Yeah, all right.
So I'm going to I'm going to putthe stream yard link into um
into the locals chat first.
So let me just uh are youkeeping this uh stream on
YouTube or are you going to keepit on YouTube, but we're gonna

(54:41):
open up the local like so ifyou're a locals member you will
get a chance to jump on with us.
I'm gonna put the link in therebefore I put it in there though.
I'm gonna send it to my friendbecause my friend has been
asking to come on and askadvice.
So I'm gonna let him get thefirst crack at it.

(55:05):
And now I'm going to send it toStreamYard.
Let's let's just see if he comeson.
Um I want to give him a shotbecause he's been asking me what
are you doing your next call-inshow?
So I'm sending it to him first,and then I'm going to send it to

(55:26):
locals.
Um while we're while we'rewaiting on that, um, I had one
story that we could cover.
Um, I want to know what youthought about this.
Um hang on, let me uh so thisguy, his um it's kind of crazy
this story.

(55:47):
So let I want to see what you asa father think about this.

SPEAKER_16 (55:50):
He stood up with me on top of him, just stood up and
threw me 10-15 feet across theroom and went after her.

SPEAKER_19 (55:58):
Dean Tipton says December 7th, 2015 is a night
that changed his life.
He says his children woke himup.
He then found a man attackinghis children.

SPEAKER_16 (56:07):
And when I got to the top of the stairs, he
attacked me.
He came at me with a knife.

SPEAKER_19 (56:12):
The night took a tragic turn with the loss of a
life, his six-year-old son,Logan.
Dean says immediately afterLogan's death, he lost his will
to live.

SPEAKER_17 (56:22):
I laid in bed.
I gave up.
I gave up on life.
I gave up on my family, I gaveup on everybody.
I just wanted to die.

SPEAKER_19 (56:34):
In the years since, the family has done their best
to cope, but mentions they arementally and emotionally
scarred, and they are hurt thatRonald Exantis will no longer be
behind bars.

SPEAKER_12 (56:45):
Everybody deserves a finding chance to have justice
for them, and it's not.

SPEAKER_16 (56:52):
I've I've had my talks with God because I I'm not
afraid to tell you, oh, I toldthe court, if I ever cross paths
with him, I will kill the man, Iwill kill him where he stands.

SPEAKER_13 (57:04):
So that guy took the life of his six-year-old, and he
was supposed to serve 20 years,and they're letting him out in
10.
And this father said, if I evercome across that man, I'm gonna
take his life.
And I'm like, Yeah.

(57:25):
Like I I like what do you do?
What do you do other than that?

SPEAKER_18 (57:29):
I I don't think I mean everybody could piety
signal and just say a virtuesignal, say you know, you just
forgive, you forgive that man.
I'm not that holy of a man, I'mnot that holy of a man.
You call me flawed, but there'sno way, and maybe that's the one
time in my life, maybe not thethe one time, but I sin by
presumption and just say, I'mgonna kill this man, and then go
to the my confessor the nextday.

(57:50):
That's just what I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_13 (57:52):
Man, I don't condone it, but I understand it.
It's like that.
Uh, you ever see that video ofthe the father, his son was um
son was molested, and they'rebringing the the the guy who did
it through I don't know if it'san airport or something, and the
guy and the father's justsitting there waiting and he
just popped them.
Yeah, and when that guy went tocourt, the jury wouldn't convict

(58:16):
him.
The jury was like not guilty,yeah.

SPEAKER_18 (58:20):
Yeah, I I just and there's part of me, maybe this
is this is maybe this isnaivete.
I think I think God, I think Godwould understand that.
I just I just think God wouldwould understand that, yeah,
it's not the civil magistrate,whatever it's you to you, but it
is your that that is that isjustice being played up, but
that's the point, right?

SPEAKER_13 (58:38):
Like with all this talk about about the death
penalty, and it's like, well,no, we have modern prison
systems, and the person's goingto be able to, and it's like
this guy's doing 10 years fortaking the life of a
six-year-old.
Are you insane?
No, justice.
Like, justice would be what thatfather is about to do.

SPEAKER_18 (58:56):
You're rendering one to what what they're owed,
you're rendering God what he isowed.
It's like you shed one man'sblood, your your your your your
blood is going to be shed.
That's Genesis, dude.

SPEAKER_13 (59:03):
And I and I and I almost think the father has a
duty to do it.

SPEAKER_18 (59:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I I I can't I cannot disagree.
I mean, just listening to thatstory makes my blood boil.
I go and look at my children, Ican imagine somebody just like
breathing air in the wrong wayin front of them.
Your kids, which is like there'sjust no chance.
I fully understand him.
Anybody that says otherwise,dude, I don't know.
Maybe you're they're holier thanme, but there's absolutely no
chance, you know, I would letthat fly.

SPEAKER_13 (59:30):
All right.
So uh my friend Patrick is gonnajoin us first before I send the
link to StreamYard.
So, what happened, Patrick?
You don't want to put your uhcamera on?
Yo, can you guys hear me?
We can hear you loud and clear.
What's up?
What's going on, Anthony?
Nothing much.
So, Patrick, for anybody thatdoesn't know, Patrick came to on
the Italy pilgrimage, and uhhe's uh him and I he lives on

(59:53):
Long Island.
Him and I have hung out severaltimes.
Me and him are going away inDecember.

SPEAKER_20 (59:58):
So I don't want to get ducked.
So, how you doing, bud?
What's going on?
So, uh, so this is the thing.
This is what I wanted to bringup to you guys because Anthony,
I recently made my first quotetweet, and it was it's actually
almost kind of about thatbecause I know on the show you

(01:00:18):
got you guys talk a lot aboutlike the trials of men with like
the red pill, the black pill,the incels, like all like the
degenerate, like like just sexeverywhere, like adultery, like
all of those different factions.
And I think kind of the answerto the problem, and I wanted to

(01:00:40):
get your guys' comment on this,is the idea of like what I was
talking about in that post,which is basically that there is
a level of greatness of soulthat is required of men, because
in the red pill, what you'reseeing is that you know,
greatness and that likestriving, but it's for vanity,

(01:01:00):
and it's not even for vanity,even if it's not inherently
wrong, it's for the sake ofitself.
But I feel like if men decidedto do great things not for the
sake of themselves, but for thesake of God, and try to emulate
figures like that, like from thecrusades, like St.
Louis IX or Saint Fernando theThird, like you don't have to be

(01:01:24):
like the bench pressing 500person, like even in your own
sphere, emulating that, I thinkthat would solve a lot of the
problems.
And to end my point, like FatherRipper was on and he was talking
about like how in the church,like uh, like a lot of like the

(01:01:45):
graces have kind of like beenabandoned and like God took them
away, and like they we're seeingall this shit going on.
Oh, sorry, all this stuff goingon all the oh, so to end my
point, you're seeing all thisstuff like going on in the world
world, this debauchery, and Ialmost see the same thing with

(01:02:06):
men.
I feel like almost kind of in away, like, because we're not
seeing a lot of spiritualfathers in the church, and I
feel like that is almost kind oflike a divine chastisement on
men that we have to reallydepend on God's grace to be able
to really develop that.
So, yeah, I don't know.

(01:02:26):
I that's like my thoughts.
Like, I don't know what you guysthink.

SPEAKER_13 (01:02:30):
So, all right, so that wasn't a question, but no,
you're right.
We are dealing with a completelack of fathers right now,
right?
And that's why, if especiallyfor you guys that are fathers,
your role as priest and fatherof your home has never been more
important.

SPEAKER_18 (01:02:47):
I think if you're gonna show true, you know,
magnanimity, greatness of soul,um, I think you ought to emulate
that in every sense.
The supernatural, of course, andin the natural, that being
secondary.
And so, because I see a lot ofon both sides.
So the red pill is veryself-indulgent, where our faith
calls us to be uh, you know,selfless, you you know, act in
uh according to self-denial andhumility.

(01:03:09):
But on the other hand, you know,you get a lot of trad guys.
I'm gonna call it the pencilneck trad here for a second that
don't care at all at all aboutthe natural, and it's all
supernatural.
And hey, listen, these guys arevery pious, but they're also
just like their bodies are justtransport mechanisms for their
heads.
It's like, yeah, how about bethe guy that is the monastic
warrior like the crusader thatis um lives a life of penance

(01:03:32):
and mortification, fortitude,temperance, prudence, justice,
the whole bit uh lives thefaith, but also like looks like
he lives the faith.
You know, these are also, youknow, this is also a tool of
evangelization.
You know, it it is it is anotherway to exude power, not just
with your family, but uh to theworld around you.
It's like listen, if we believein the something in something
that is the the true good andthe beautiful, why wouldn't you

(01:03:53):
embody it in the natural aswell?
That doesn't mean you have to bethe guy that bench presses 500
pounds, but like do somethingwith your body, dude.
It's all encompassing, my guy.
It all of it.

SPEAKER_20 (01:04:04):
Yeah, we are that's all that's all that's I just
wanted to get your guys' take onall of this stuff because this
is like an interesting topic.

SPEAKER_13 (01:04:13):
All right, Patrick.
We'll talk behind the scenes.
All right, thanks, guys.
See you, bud.
Okay, all right.
We got Jacob up next.
Jacob, what's happening,brother?

SPEAKER_11 (01:04:24):
Hello, sirs.
How are y'all doing?

SPEAKER_13 (01:04:26):
Very good.
What's going on?

SPEAKER_11 (01:04:28):
So my question's kind of simple.
So I am struggling with kind ofthe line between venting and
gossip when it comes to working.
So you deal with like, you know,the person that does the bare
minimum, the person that kind ofirritates everyone.
And, you know, I think it'shealthy to, you know, vent about

(01:04:52):
your coworkers sometimes.
But where does kind of that linebetween venting turn into
gossip, turn into detraction?

SPEAKER_18 (01:05:00):
Venting is another word for gossip.
It's it's just a misnomer.
It's another, in my opinion,it's another word for gossip.
I think it's a very, very, veryeffeminate trait when you got a
vent about a coworker.
I just think it's retardedpersonally.
If you want to vent a problem,go talk to the person.
That's it.
That's my opinion.
I'm not coming at you.
I just like vent venting.
I'm Italian.
I grew up like, yeah, we justgot a vent.

(01:05:21):
It's like, no, we don't.
We don't got a vent.

SPEAKER_13 (01:05:24):
So now I vent on here a little bit.

SPEAKER_18 (01:05:28):
Understand about public statements, it's a little
bit different.
Maybe that's a little bitdifferent, but these little
things we have in our privatelives, like, I don't know.
No venture.

SPEAKER_13 (01:05:36):
Yeah, I I would say, um, especially if that venting
is like bringing something up inyour heart.
Somebody's asking um if I'm sickor if I have allergies or
something.
I actually have a headache rightnow.
I'm hoping it just goes awaykind of quick.
So if you guys see me likerubbing my temple, it's it's
almost gone.
I know it is, so um, just bearwith me, guys.

(01:05:56):
Um, all right.
Uh yeah, I would say um gossip'sa rough one, but if it's if if
you're if you're dwelling on itand it's causing something in
your heart to like dislike theperson more, I would I would cut
it out of it.
And it especially if you'remaking someone else dislike that

(01:06:18):
person through what you'resaying, you have to be very
cautious of that.
Um, but you know, I'm I'm guiltyof it too.
So I don't know if I'm thegreatest one to give it to give
advice on that because I I'vedone it on this show, so it's a
near occasion of sin, too.

SPEAKER_18 (01:06:33):
Like when when is the line crossed when you're
actually actually gossiping,you're detracting, or what have
you.
You know, I just don't do it.
Don't do it.
Yeah, just don't punch him inthe face.

SPEAKER_13 (01:06:43):
Much, much healthier.

SPEAKER_05 (01:06:44):
Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_13 (01:06:45):
No, all right, Jacob, we're gonna go to the
next call.
Thanks for calling.
Um, uh Salahas, I'm not bringingyou on.
Uh David.

SPEAKER_07 (01:06:54):
David, what's happening, brother?
Hey Anthony, good to see youagain.
And and uh Mr.
Panzila, it's uh pleasure topleasure to meet you.
I I love your work and you're aninspiration.
Uh I I I felt I felt kind ofcalled out in a sense, uh pencil
neck trad because I'm I'm aninspiring.

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:09):
I love you, bro.

SPEAKER_07 (01:07:11):
I like to think I'm in an in the act of becoming
currently because I don't evengo to Latin mass regularly.
I I'm I I actually work as ayouth minister in my Novas Ordo
parish, though I would like togo to Latin Mass more, and I've
accidentally converted a fewkids to the Latin mass.
So um anyways, that that aside,I got kind of a two-parter
question for if you don't mind.
The first is a really quickpart, and the second's a little

(01:07:32):
more in-depth, but uh the uh thefirst part I I'm might be a
silly question, but I'm curious.
What what's what is the softwareyou guys use for your your
stream setup here?
Like like like the you got thelittle windows coming up and and
all that stream yard.
Stream yard, okay.
I I'm I'm familiar with OBS ingeneral, but I haven't really
gone to in depth.

SPEAKER_13 (01:07:52):
OBS is probably better.
You could probably do a lot morewith it.

SPEAKER_07 (01:07:54):
Anthony would not know how to use OBS.

SPEAKER_13 (01:07:56):
No.
Rob doesn't even know how.

SPEAKER_07 (01:07:59):
It's it seems like it's a little bit to get into,
but once you get into it, youkind of you can go places fast
from what I understand.
But that kind of leads into thenext part too.
Um I so I've been kind of goingback and forth for like years
now about uh like I have aYouTube channel and I've posted
some things to it and streamed alittle bit to it, mostly video
game content.

(01:08:19):
But like I I've been going backand forth about the possibility
of doing some sort of Catholicor Catholic adjacent content.
And something that you guys saida while back really spoke to me
was uh not not too long, it wasprobably within the past few
months, that you guys wanted tohave this channel to not be like
like hyper intellectual, likewe're not here to we're not here
to uh uh what was the word, notproselytize, but you know, we're

(01:08:42):
not here to be uh we're not anapostolate, we're not a we're
not a ministry, yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_13 (01:08:47):
Catholic guys talking about Catholic things.

SPEAKER_07 (01:08:49):
Right, right.
And you know, being a youngermillennial for m all of my
childhood and into the present,like all of the especially like
video game adjacent concepts andany kind of like media related
concept, which Anthony, I know Iknow you're not big on video
games, but like I I get that, Iget that.
Like there's a lot of bad there,and and I I feel like I have a
pretty good idea.

SPEAKER_13 (01:09:07):
I'm not like anti-video game because I think
I would be on it, so like Iwould be such a hypocrite uh if
I talked about video gamesbecause I'm on Twitter so much
and I don't think much of adifference.
Like I've wasted my time on ascreen either way.

SPEAKER_07 (01:09:21):
So my my excuse is I tend to lean more
family-friendly Nintendo slopanyways, so yeah.
Uh but yeah, like so I've justbeen going back and forth like
about whether that would makesense to have a channel where I
I I kind of like you guys, justkind of just just kind of shoot
it with some friends and thentalk back and forth and have
little just a littleconversations, but just we

(01:09:41):
happen to be Catholic people andtherefore we'll automatic
that'll automatically come outin conversation.
And same kind of thing forstreaming or playing video games
or talking about video games,where it's like, you know,
there's just yeah, most of thecontent creators in that sphere
for all my childhood on to thepresent have it's been largely
dominated by far left,progressive, atheist kind of

(01:10:01):
creators with very few inbetween.
Yeah, yeah, also like Destiny'sa good example, like but even
like the more kind of chillpeople on YouTube are um
trivial, yeah.
I should start with the trivialshow.
Um, but yeah, like you even someof the more chill people that
aren't like as outwardlypolitical, like once you kind of
see them slip in jokes or talkabout things on Twitter, it's

(01:10:23):
very clear, like okay, like allthese people are like very
hardcore progressives.
So, like I don't know.
I just wanted to hear yourthoughts.
Would it make sense to throw inthrow in a voice, try that out?
Do you do you think it's gonnabe good?

SPEAKER_13 (01:10:34):
If you're going to try and make money doing it, you
know I got an idea how difficultit is to make money doing
podcasting, and it'd be a hobby.
But if you if you just want todo it as a hobby to for fun and
like try to build like a smalllittle audience, do it.
Yeah, I I couldn't suggestanything more.
It's uh because this show, evenif I wasn't making money at this

(01:10:56):
point, has become such afruitful thing in my life.
Yeah, uh, I touched on it theother night a little bit where
um I've had I had like a fewaddictions in my life that I was
like the community of this showhelped me get rid of those
addictions, and I've been ableto it's helped my family, it's
helped everything, and justhaving somewhere to come and
talk about the things thatmatter to me and in uh around

(01:11:20):
other Catholic men has beensomething huge for me.
But I I'm going to tell you likethe the market, like if it's for
financial reasons, it's a verylong, slow build.
And it would matter yourmotivations.

SPEAKER_07 (01:11:34):
Yeah, that that's something I figure if if on some
freak chance I hit it big, thenI'll you know I'll double down
on it and yeah, see whathappens.
But I I'm not expecting anythingto come of it that way.
I just it it'd be if I honestly,and this is kind of silly as it
is, but it'd be it'd be anexcuse for me to actually play
the mini games that I own.
I have a bad habit of buyinggames and not making it.
Talk to Thursday.

SPEAKER_13 (01:11:54):
Third Thursday, Thursday's trying to do like
gaming and stuff like that.
He'd be in good contact.

SPEAKER_18 (01:11:59):
Yeah, I'll take a look at that.
All I can say about that is havea direction for it, yeah, and
it's either 100 100 or nothing.
Yep, yep, 100% or nothing.
And if you want to do somethingfinancial with it, you have to
have something you have to youcan actually offer men that
inspires them forward, yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
Like solving a problem in yourown life that you can help other

(01:12:20):
guys solve in in the in a waythat calls them forward.
You can do that financially.
But if it's a hobby, even ifit's a hobby, you got to do it
right.
Just please, please do notbecome an apologist, do not do
that bullshit.
Please do not do that.
No more, no more.
No, no, nobody wants to hearthat stuff, nobody wants to hear
that stuff anymore.
If it's just a bunch of dudeslike us that kind of talk about

(01:12:40):
it.

SPEAKER_13 (01:12:41):
It's not the Nintendo Thomas, Nintendo
Thomas.

SPEAKER_18 (01:12:44):
That's actually got a ring to it, man.
And David, I saw a comment too.
Uh it it sounds like you can youcan speak reasonably well as
well.
So, like, I mean, I think itwould go well sometimes if you
if you consistently consistencyis is the game, but do it hard
100% or nothing.

SPEAKER_07 (01:12:59):
You you caught you caught me on a good a good day
where I'm stuttering night youknow 10 of how much I normally
would.
So go and do it.

SPEAKER_13 (01:13:08):
If you if you do start something, let me know and
we'll try and help promote itfor you.

SPEAKER_07 (01:13:13):
Absolutely.
Thank you, thank you.
If I'll I'll announce since mymy usernames are obscure and
goofy, I'll just announce myselfas David if I do.
So thank you.

SPEAKER_13 (01:13:21):
Yeah, if you if you follow me on Twitter, you follow
me on Twitter.

SPEAKER_07 (01:13:24):
I don't have a Twitter.

SPEAKER_13 (01:13:26):
Okay, well, if you leave a message in locals, just
let me know and I'll I'll shoutI'll throw it out on Twitter and
then we'll mention it on theshow.
If you I'll I'll always look outfor the local supporters.
So awesome.

SPEAKER_07 (01:13:35):
Thank you guys so much.
You guys are awesome.
Keep doing what you're doing.
You got it.

SPEAKER_13 (01:13:39):
Nice to meet you.
All right, who we got next?
Uh let's see.
I see, I see, oh, we gotta dooh, all right.
What's up, Tommy?

SPEAKER_09 (01:13:49):
We are tonight's entertainment.
What's up, what it is.
All right, I'll get straight toit.
So, for the last 40 years, andat least four popes in what they
have taught, permitted, andpracticed say that Vatican II

(01:14:09):
and thus the Catholic Churchteaches that the 1986 Assisi
meeting, the gathering of 30plus false religions praying
together with Catholic leaders,that that is the Catholic
Church.
So is it Catholic teaching or isthat an act of apostasy?

SPEAKER_18 (01:14:31):
I love dude, you know I love you already, because
on X we have a goodrelationship.
I you know I love you already.
It's cool seeing your face.

SPEAKER_05 (01:14:37):
I thought you'd actually be Asian, like like uh
I got I got one for I got onefor you after this remark
though, but yeah, that isbullshit.

SPEAKER_13 (01:14:47):
What do you want from us right now?
Like I'm not doing this withyou, like I'm not becoming a
CNA, dude.

SPEAKER_09 (01:14:52):
The question is was a CC is that an act of apostasy
by John Paul II or or not?
Or is it more let me give youanother option?
Let me give you another option.
It it would be an act ofapostasy if I did it, but
because he is the Pope or Bishopor something, he has a special
privilege where he gets to getaway with that.

(01:15:14):
Like I think I'm trying to getyour position.

SPEAKER_13 (01:15:17):
I want to know your position on this.
You know my position on this.
I honestly think you were betteroff being Mormon than said I,
like you should go back toMormonism.
Dude, I'm not doing thistonight.
I love you, brother.

SPEAKER_09 (01:15:30):
You know who's closer to Mormon is you,
actually, but we're not gonnaget into that.

SPEAKER_13 (01:15:34):
I love you, Tommy.

SPEAKER_09 (01:15:34):
You're always like, what was Mike gonna say though?
What was Mike gonna say?
I have I have a good one.
Mike's gonna love uh the otherthing I had to say, but I don't
know.

SPEAKER_18 (01:15:42):
I just think if you guys actually thought this
through and like uh took aPascal's wager approach to your
faith, you guys would like getoff the internet, touch grass,
and submit to the Pope and notplay with your salvation the way
that you do.
So you can come at me for that,bro.
I just say that I say that incharity and in love, but like
you guys, you guys gotta get offthe internet and go touch grass.

SPEAKER_13 (01:16:01):
All right, all right, I'm gonna knock it off.
You know, that's not what I'msaying.

SPEAKER_09 (01:16:08):
If you're gonna start doing it, my uncle Mike
will like, okay.
Um, so that'd be interesting.
Okay, so you know at the gymwhen they they get the cable
machine and then they take itand they go like 30 yards down
the end of the gym, you knowwhat I'm saying?
So I was thinking, once you getpast four feet, wouldn't that be

(01:16:30):
wouldn't the uh the distancefrom the machine be inversely
proportionate to the uh thegains in strength and and uh and
muscle, right?
You get you get what I'm saying?
Like the scientificweightlifters, they take the
cable like 30 yards across thegym and they lay on their back
and you do the scientificweightlifting stuff.

SPEAKER_13 (01:16:51):
You gotta you gotta call into you gotta call into
the the Latin Slavs for thisquestion.
All right, Tommy, we'll let yougo, bro.
I love you.

SPEAKER_17 (01:17:01):
He's such a sicko.

SPEAKER_13 (01:17:03):
That dude's hilarious.
Uh good.
I love I love him.
I'm not doing the set anything,but he is funny, he's got a very
good sense of humor.
He's he's he's hilarious, notserious at all.
All right, redeemability, yourmic's off.
What do you got?

SPEAKER_14 (01:17:17):
Yeah, yeah.
Alrighty.
So uh just a little backgroundhere.
I've been attending the LatinMass for let's say about five
years since like post-COVID, alittle bit after COVID.
Um basically, my wife and Imoved back to my hometown um
because well, uh expenses,everything's super expensive

(01:17:38):
nowadays.
We want to save some money upfor a house living near the TLM
in the future.
Problem is uh the TLM out heregot TC'd pretty early into it,
uh like back in 21.
So we're kind of dealing withthe wreckage of things, and I'm
I want to kind of hear fromy'all because I'm trying to
rebuild this place as much as Ican while I'm here and make sure

(01:18:01):
I leave it better than you knowit it was left.
We have a good priest, he'ssympathetic.
He told me like we can doVespers uh after I asked him.
So I just want to hear outsideof Vespers, what would you maybe
suggest I pitch to the priest tomake sure we get this like as
good uh and like try it as wecan?

SPEAKER_13 (01:18:21):
You're in a you're stuck in a novus ordo.

SPEAKER_14 (01:18:24):
Yeah, it's uh it's a reverent one, but it's still the
novice order, you know what Imean?
It's Latin and Gregorian chants,all that.
It's it's gonna be set up tobecome a TLM whenever or if ever
we this TC stuff gets lifted,but it's uh it's gonna be a
novice order.

SPEAKER_13 (01:18:40):
When you say reverent, like this does he have
altar girls, does he have likewhat how what is what is
reverent to you?
That's what I want to know.

SPEAKER_14 (01:18:48):
Every everything everything that would be in a
TLM is there, it's just ultraboys, it's ad orientum, it's
everything that that a TLMcelebrant would do except that
it's so it's pretty it's prettyunicorn, like it's really a
unicorn you're you got yeah,yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_13 (01:19:06):
Uh see if you could add Gregorian chant and as much
Latin as possible.

SPEAKER_14 (01:19:10):
We got it, we already got that.

SPEAKER_13 (01:19:13):
I mean, I don't I don't know.
Why are you upset, my guy?
Yes.

SPEAKER_14 (01:19:17):
I'm not really upset.
I'm just I'm just thinking,like, what would y'all suggest
outside of adding like a Vespersor something to where I guess we
could make this parish a littlemore full of of life as like an
FSSP would be or something else.

SPEAKER_13 (01:19:32):
I'm not upset by it.
Separate separate the men andwomen, make the women go to
separate masses.
I don't think that's possible.
If babies cry, throw them out.
I mean, I don't know what you'relooking for.
Sounds like you got the best oflike the best of the situation
you could possibly have.
So I don't know.

SPEAKER_18 (01:19:50):
Yeah, if I had access to that kind of novice
order, I I I mean, I I wouldn'treally be upset.
I mean, uh ultimately I'd stilljust try to go to the TLM, um,
because that's where you'regonna get the fullness of it.
But if you're in a place where TT C is you know heavily
enforced, I think you got it,man.
I think you got the best of bothworlds, and a lot of people
would love to be in yourposition.
So go and uh don't try to changethings and just be you know,

(01:20:11):
just immerse yourself in it asbest you can.

SPEAKER_14 (01:20:14):
Fair enough.
All right, guys.

SPEAKER_13 (01:20:15):
All right, brothers.
Nice talking to you.
Um okay, we got CatholicCanadian.
What's happening, bro?
Oh my guy, what's up, dude?

SPEAKER_06 (01:20:24):
What is up, Mike?
Is my audio working?
Yeah, you're good, bro.
You're good.
All right, man.
Uh one, yeah.
That guy in the video at thebeginning, yeah, it is pretty
justified.
Thinks anyone touches yourchild, does anything like that,
you know.
Straight up pop them, you know.
As much as yeah, you want avirtue signal, say uh be Charlie

(01:20:47):
Kirk's wife, oh I forgive you.
No, no, forgiveness one didn'tdo it.

SPEAKER_18 (01:20:52):
For context too, Scott's in my men's group.
So me and me and this dude, meand this dude are are pretty
close.
So fellow Canuck, good to seeyou, Scott.

SPEAKER_06 (01:21:00):
Anthony, I had to ask you, like, if you're like
some big muscly masculine guy,um, wouldn't you find it kind of
would you be a pansy and notwant to do cold showers for uh
or would you would you complainabout that?
Would you make it such a bigdeal?
Uh you call me out on a livestream.

SPEAKER_18 (01:21:24):
You're calling me out on a live stream, anyways.
And during Lent, I tried to docold showers, and after like
five days in the middle ofAlberta, I was like, I ain't
doing this.
These pipes are they becamelukewarm.

SPEAKER_13 (01:21:34):
Yeah, I was like, they won't be scalding hot, but
like I'll turn a little bit ofthe heat down for you guys.

SPEAKER_18 (01:21:42):
Yeah, call me out.
That's fair, dude.
Nice one, bro.
Come on.
Yeah, I didn't really have much.

SPEAKER_13 (01:21:51):
Is the men's group in person or is it online?

SPEAKER_18 (01:21:53):
No, it's it's it's all it's all online, yeah.
Yeah, well, remember the videoyesterday.

SPEAKER_13 (01:21:59):
Uh is that meaning Scott, unless you got a
question.
You got an actual question?

SPEAKER_06 (01:22:03):
Uh no question, just uh prefer my wife's uh delivery
of our child, first child.

SPEAKER_13 (01:22:10):
Sounds good, Scott.
Nice meeting you.
We'll see you next week, hurryup.
Hopefully, it's well done.

SPEAKER_18 (01:22:17):
God bless you, bud.

SPEAKER_13 (01:22:19):
Um, all right, Matt.
What's happening, Matthew?

SPEAKER_08 (01:22:22):
Oh, yo, what's up, guys?
Uh hey, first I just gotta say Iappreciate Ant for uh being a
blue-collar Catholic.
It's just not super common.
And Mike, I used to be obsessedwith making games when I was in
my early 20s.
So I just appreciate both youguys.
So just starting out with that.
Like, I appreciate both the workyou guys do.
So thank you.

(01:22:43):
Yeah.
Um, so the question I've got.
So I live in super ruralAmerica.
Uh, I'm a dairy farmer.
Uh, there's like hundreds ofother farmers in my little town
of 1400 people.
We're blessed with a uhBenedictine monk who says a TLM
for us every Sunday.
He has daily masses for us athis monastery.
It's phenomenal.

(01:23:03):
But um, the weird thing about itis that I hear on Catholic
YouTube everybody saying theirTLM's bursting at the seams.
It's just so many young people,it's just so great.
And uh my wife and I areprobably the only two at the TLM
under the age of 40.
It's just uh it's abnormal or itfeels abnormal.
So asking you guys, I thoughtyou two'd be good people to ask.

(01:23:26):
Um, like for rural people,blue-collar people, it just
doesn't seem like it's catching.
Uh, it feels like it's too maybescholarly or theological for
blue-collar, rural, pre-simplepeople.
What's your guys'recommendation?
Uh, Northern California, waylike like Baja, Oregon is kind
of what we call it.
It's the the lost coast ofCalifornia.

SPEAKER_13 (01:23:47):
And you're saying it's not that many young people
there?

SPEAKER_08 (01:23:50):
No, I'm saying there's no young people there.
I'm 29 and I'm the youngest.
Do you know any novus ordoCatholics?
Oh, yeah.
So that I meant to say that thetwo Novus Ordo masses that
happened before the TLM arepacked.
I mean, just absolutely packed.
So it's just a weird situation.
And it's like, you know, it'snot really on me to like save

(01:24:13):
people's souls by go to the TLM.
Like, if they get a lot out ofthe Novus Ordo, good for them.
But it is just odd because I seethis trend everywhere else.
And here it's just, you know,it's just kind of uh it's kind
of lonely, I guess you couldsay, being the only young person
there.
So what's your guys'recommendation to like try to
get young, kind of just simplepeople to the TLM?
Like, what's the best salespitch you guys got?

SPEAKER_18 (01:24:34):
Yeah, I'm gonna jump in here real quick, uh uh,
Anthony.
And I do a lot, I do a lot ofwork with uh with young dudes.
And Matthew, I really appreciatethe kind words too, brother.
I'm gonna call you out a littlebit though.
You're 29, right?
A lot of these dudes overthinkreally simple, simple problems.
Uh you go and be the guy thatinvites those young people to

(01:24:55):
the TLM.
That's it.
That's the solution.
Simple.
Most of the most questions likethis, most questions are simple,
have simple solutions.
They're just like not sexy,right?
It's like not sexy to do that.
So, like, that's what I woulddo.
I would go and be the guy thatevangelizes the the young people
to TLM, and then that's how youtransform your TLM, my guy.

(01:25:16):
I feel you, what are you whatare you doing, my dude?

SPEAKER_13 (01:25:19):
I'm putting the train yard link in the YouTube
comments.

SPEAKER_08 (01:25:23):
That guy's crazy.
I'm uh I'm Italian too, but I'mSwiss Italian, so I'm I'm
actually working.

SPEAKER_18 (01:25:27):
You're not real Italian, northern Italians,
fake.

SPEAKER_08 (01:25:30):
Hey, I'm up in I'm up in Como.
I mean, that's God's country upthere.
That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_18 (01:25:34):
Fake Italian, bro.
Come on.
No, no, that's right.
What do you think, Anthony?
What do you think?

SPEAKER_13 (01:25:40):
I I think if you know Nobus Ordo uh Catholics,
you have to be the one to bringthem.
Like, that's how that's going towork.
Like, if you know people intheir in their lives that are
that are that actually likebelieve the Catholic thing, you
gotta kind of do what BrianHoldsworth did to Mike.

SPEAKER_08 (01:25:58):
Yeah.
So what do you do?
Like hold their hand and walkthem in, or do you just say,
hey, like this thing's sick andyou need to check it out?
Like it's yeah, that's what Idid.

SPEAKER_13 (01:26:06):
I've I've dragged, I've dragged multiple people to
the Latin mass.
And here's here's how Ipresented it to them.
I said, Listen, this is going tobe something, uh, if it's you
have to present it as listen,this is you're going to be
taking a step into the MiddleAges.
This is something very uniquethat you're going to see.
Um and you might not get it onyour first runaround.

(01:26:29):
But if you stick around a littlebit, you'll actually wind up
seeing like the uh Catholicismin a way that you've never
really experienced before, andget them to go to two or three
in a row.
And if you get people to go totwo or three in a row, that's
that's when they'll be hooked.

SPEAKER_08 (01:26:43):
Yeah, that Taylor Marshall, like go to four in a
row kind of things.
I mean, that's what got mehooked, right?
I mean, it really does work.
You see it, and you're like,wow, this is like this is for
real.
Like, I feel like I missed out.
You guys say it all the time.
But yeah, when I went to myfirst one, it was uh my brother
got married in the TLM and mysister-in-law got married in the
TLM.
Those were my first two Iattended.
I'm like, man, I've been missingout.

(01:27:04):
I can't believe I got married tothe Nova Sordo.
You know, I missed out on this.
So, anyways, no, I appreciate itthough.
You got evangelists, yeah.
Bobby, dude.

SPEAKER_13 (01:27:11):
Bobby said, invite them to mass and lunch after to
get them to join you.
That's all.
It's really the best you can do.

SPEAKER_08 (01:27:16):
So in my small town, there's like one pizza shop.
So I guess that's it, right?
That's all I got.

SPEAKER_13 (01:27:21):
It's even easier then, yes, sir.
All right, appreciate it, guys.
Thanks for going and see whatyou can do.
Uh it's nice meeting you,Matthew.
All right, I guess nobody elsewants to jump on with us, man.
That's that's funny.
Last time we did this, it waslike a hundred people wanted to
jump on, but um, we can um hangon.
Let me see what else I got.
We got plenty of stuff.

SPEAKER_18 (01:27:38):
I mean, unless you gotta go, Mike.
No, I'm I'm I'm good, man.
Yeah, right.
May have made the time.
I'm about half cut like you are,but well, I'll I'm hanging in
there.

SPEAKER_13 (01:27:48):
Uh well, so my headache's gone now.
Thank god.
Like that was like I was in badshape for a little a good 40
minutes.
Uh I was in bad shape.
Oh, we got another, we gotanother.
Um, we have pretty mutual.
We have a uh uh what happened?
Yeah, I don't know if you hungup on us.

(01:28:10):
Um this is a good story for you,actually.
Being a Canadian.
Uh this is this is a good storyfor you being a Canadian, let me
say.

SPEAKER_18 (01:28:27):
Future Dominican.
I was getting excited there forlike half a second.
What come on?
Come on, man.

SPEAKER_13 (01:28:34):
Um, let me just say, hang on.
Hang on.

SPEAKER_18 (01:28:42):
I can't believe there are more callers.
What's what's wrong with that?

SPEAKER_13 (01:28:44):
Yeah, but last time we did this, they were like
non-stop.
Um, let me just say, I want topull this story up.
I'm so bad at this stuff.
Rob's so much better.
Okay, here we go.
Okay, so we have okay, so uhCanadi Canada, Canadia, Canada

(01:29:06):
euthanizes elderly women withdementia.
Uh Sharon Kirky was uh waspublished by the National Post,
uh whatever, reporting on theOntario dementia patient, died
by euthanasia, even though therequest was made by the family.
Oh a frail woman in her late 80swith dementia received the maid,

(01:29:28):
received maid after a familymember brought forward a request
for an assisted death.
A new report reveals the woman'slife was ended after a maid
provider deemed the woman hadgiven her final expressed
consent to proceed based on herability to repeat a question and
squeeze the provider's hand.
This case was featured in therecent report from Ontario MADE.

(01:29:50):
Uh, the case is among a half adozen, flagged in the in the
latest report from the office.
So basically, like I am I'mtrying to understand what's
going on in Canada.
Um, like you're you guys havethis crazy healthcare system
over there that kind of pushesthis on people.

(01:30:10):
And like this is when when youtalk about John Paul II talking
about like the culture of death,like I don't understand how
crazy this has gotten overthere.

SPEAKER_18 (01:30:21):
Yeah, it's it's sad too, because our origin as a
country is very Catholic, moreCatholic than the United States
will ever be from like a anorigin standpoint, you know, for
sure how staunchly Catholic youknow um Canada was at the
beginning.
Um, and unfortunately, thoseeastern, those Atlantic
provinces are a shell of theirformer selves, or the more
secular atheistic provincescompared to you know Western

(01:30:44):
Canada where where I'm at now.
It's and I I'm I feel almostdisconnected from it because I'm
in I'm in Alberta.
I'm originally from Vancouver,so I'm very much like a fake
Canadian because I'm not likeover there, there's no it's not
cold.
It's like you know, super hot inthe summer and then kind of
rainy in the wintertime.
And I'm here in like actualCanada.
Um, and we're we're like thelast bastion of common sense and

(01:31:08):
hope in the whole country.
And if any if any province wereto be become a state and be
welcomed right at home in theUS, it would be Alberta.
It absolutely would be Alberta.
So I try not to pay attention tothe politics.
I remember that the night, itwas the night before I was going
to Mexico, Carney got voted in,and I was just I said, man, this
is just it's a downward spiral.
I mean, I think the UK and uhAustralia are a cautionary tale

(01:31:31):
of what Canada is to become, butthere are some common sense um
premiers that's like would bethe equivalent of like a
governor um in in Canada thatare holding it down pretty good,
but it's basically Alberta andSaskatchewan that are the uh the
the only two.
Uh the the I don't know.
I don't know what else there isthere is to say.
I try to not pay attention toomuch attention to it because I

(01:31:53):
know like I should be patrioticpatriotic, but man, this this
country makes it very hard.

SPEAKER_13 (01:31:58):
But it just goes to show you like the like where
we're at.
Like when we're talking, evenwhen we're talking about the
even the mass, like this meaningcrisis, and how like we view
people as expendable at thispoint, right?
Like it's just there you havesomebody gets sick, somebody has
dementia, and it it's look, II've I've had my my grandfather

(01:32:23):
had dementia, my grandfather hadAlzheimer's, and it was a
nightmare dealing with them.
Like there were there were timeswhere he'd be watching TV and
he'd think that was a window,people looking at him, he'd be
like, Why are you looking at me?
Why are you looking at me?
You know, it was it was a verydifficult thing to deal with.
Um, but we're now at a pointwhere like families are just

(01:32:46):
like, I don't want to deal withthis anymore, just freaking send
them off to go get like thereit's not even an issue of the
government at that point.
That's the family just having nowill to eat.
I mean, man, you think aboutwhat the what who whichever
family member called that in,like what they're going to face
on their judgment, and they andthey actually have been

(01:33:06):
convinced that's an act ofmercy.
But man, I just I don't know,man.
We're so dark as a culture atthis point.

SPEAKER_18 (01:33:14):
I just think again, it's just a it's another branch
of what the fatherlessnessfatherless generation has
produced.
It's been it's multi-multiplegenerations where fathers have
abdicated their rolescompletely, and so when you
don't catechize your family,they fall away from the faith.
If you don't teach them thesevalues, they're just good, your
kids are just going to abandonyou, you know, uh when when

(01:33:36):
they're older, and this is theproduct.
You know, growing up Italian,this is kind of this is very
alien.
Even my wife, like my mybrother-in-law, his mother has
dementia so bad.
Their house is a fortress, it'slocked down.
But they're not putting thatwoman in an old folks' home,
they're they're doing whateverthey can to rally the troops
together to take care of thatwoman.
My father-in-law, my God blesshis soul.

(01:33:56):
He's got dementia and itstarted, you know, it's
progressing.
He's still good, but he'sprogressing.
I'm like, we're never gonnaabandon that man.
That wasn't the value, thoseweren't the values instilled in
me as a young Italian kidgrowing up with my grandparents.
Probably the same thing for you.
There's just this, this I don'tknow, there's no honor.
It's absolutely no honor, andit's and it's it's it's
absolutely disgusting.
So it's it's up to us, butreally like that's yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_13 (01:34:16):
I saw something, I saw something.
Man, I don't even know if Ishould say this on YouTube.
I saw something in my wife'sfamily, where somebody had a
stroke, and they were at aCatholic hospital after this

(01:34:38):
stroke, and they they thehospital starved this person to
death.
Like they just cut the feedingtube off.
And the family was all for it.
Oh the family was like, he wouldnever want to live like this.
Like we need to, we need to.

(01:34:58):
And the hospital, there was aCatholic hospital, and the
Catholic hospital at first waslike, we can't do that.
And they will, and theyconvinced the hospital that this
person would never want to livelike this, you have to do this.
And it was just, I was likehorrified by what I watched.
It was I was just like, holycow, man, I cannot believe this.

(01:35:19):
Is that and that's not the maidprogram in Canada, that's just a
Catholic hospital on LongIsland, and I could not believe
it.
And I'm and I'm I'm looking ateven what's happening in like
I'm I'm I'm watching uhgrandparents on certain sides of
the family, and they're olderand they're getting dementia,

(01:35:41):
and I'm watching their childrenjust kind of like wash their
hands of them, and it's like I'mlike, how do how do man?
What happened to our culturewhere we're just like especially
like the the boomer generation,man?
Like they they wanted to gettheir their kids off and

(01:36:04):
married, and they just kind ofwant to do their thing, and then
when their parents go, they'rejust like, I don't know, I did
my hard work, like I just kindof want to go do my cruise.
Go, I want to go off to Paris,and I want to go here and I want
to go do this, and it's justwild to me to watch this stuff,
man.
I don't I don't know.
I don't like when my I thinkabout like if my parents were

(01:36:26):
sick like that, it's a bigburden to bring your parents in
your home.
But I mean, how do you not do itas a Christian, right?
Like, how do you not do that?

SPEAKER_18 (01:36:35):
Well, if you don't have an illuminated conscience
and an informed conscience bythe frequenting of the
sacraments and penance, andyou're just like poorly
catechized, you're just gonnafloat like a uh a leaf in the
wind, and your intellect andyour will is gonna be darkened
and you're gonna be moved todoing really, really dumb things
that benefit you because you'reselfish and self-indulgent.
I mean, it wasn't like I had areally tumultuous and turbulent
relationship uh with uh with myfather my whole life.

(01:36:57):
And it was it was on my heart,you know, you know, months back
when I reverted.
And then also recently I said,if I go and try to make amends
or do something, am I honoringmy father?
Am I disobeying God?
You know, I wanted to run awayfrom my last name and I wanted
to do that.
It's like, no, no, no.
I gotta take care of that manand I gotta forgive him.
I gotta try to mend a bridge,not to my detriment.
If that's a burden that I haveto carry, and that's made me a

(01:37:18):
better father.
That's drawn me closer to God,you know, because it's like, may
my humiliation, may Christ beglorified in my humiliation.
That's the the only way you getthere is with an informed
conscience through the thesacraments and you know,
understanding how wretched youare.
People just don't give a crapbecause not doing that.
How many how many kids you gotnow?
I've got three, three, and whatare the ages?

(01:37:40):
Uh, my eldest is four in like aweek and a half.
My two-year-old just turned twoin September, and then Ambrosio,
my little boy, is almost threemonths.

SPEAKER_13 (01:37:48):
Those are the dude.
The four is two and four arelike my favorite ages, man.
Like two, they just starttalking, four, they're just so
curious about everything.
That's such an exciting time.

SPEAKER_18 (01:38:01):
It's amazing.
It it there's nothing like it,dude.
Having two little girls, alittle boy, like my even if we
have no more, we want to havemore, obviously.
But it's the greatest thingever.
The greatest thing.

SPEAKER_13 (01:38:10):
My wife couldn't have more.
Like, we've been trying for ayear, we just couldn't, like,
she just couldn't get pregnant.
I mean, my wife's never been onthree.
My wife's never been on birthcontrol.
I have three, yeah.
Is it two two girls and a boy,or two boys?
Two girls and two girls and aboy.
Like, I've I wanted five kids sobad, man.
Like, I really did.
I mean, I would have whatever Icould get, but like five was

(01:38:31):
just such an awesome number tome.
I don't know.
I grew up in a house with abunch of kids, man.
I grew up, I have eightsiblings, and it was like you go
to my mom's house, and it's justno matter what, the my mom's
house is like Grand CentralStation, so like my parents are
are the exception to boomersbecause they don't have the
option, like they just don't.
Like my there's always somebodyat my mom's house, they don't

(01:38:53):
have the option of like goingoff and doing their own thing,
like there's always kids therewith grandkids, and it's just
it's just kind of mayhem.
And I always kind of wanted thatfor myself, too.
It's just oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_18 (01:39:06):
I mean, it that's that my biggest well, my regret.
I mean, it's a ton like Ianything I could have controlled
was not meeting my wife earlier,you know, because we both, you
know, she had the first I'm 32.
My wife's older than me, so shehad our baby still, dude.
Yeah, but she had our first kid,she was like 34, 35 in the
hospital, and we've had threekids, so it's like you know,
it's it's could we have four orfive or six?

(01:39:27):
Maybe she's healthy, thesepregnancies have been very good,
very smooth.
Actually, with our little boy,it was uh it was a home birth,
and it was the most insane,life-changing moment like I've
ever had.
It was insane, dude.

SPEAKER_13 (01:39:37):
It was so crazy.
Once women get up towards 40, itreally does get difficult, like
for them.
So um, yeah, I'm gonna tryfuture Dominican again.
I don't know if his camera'sworking, but we'll bring him on.
All right.

SPEAKER_15 (01:39:50):
Hello, can you hear me?

SPEAKER_13 (01:39:51):
We hear you, brother.
What's happening?

SPEAKER_15 (01:39:53):
Uh hello, Mr.
Bates.
I gotta I gotta go quick becauselike I'm gonna regret.
Okay, I'm I'm I gotta go quick.
So um I'm still in high schoolright now.
Do you know of any like smallertraditional uh Catholic colleges
uh that I would be open to?
Because my plan is I maybe wantto go to college for like uh two
or three years and then just uhjoin the Dominicans and go off.

SPEAKER_13 (01:40:15):
Well, first of all, slow down.
Why do you have to go so quick?
Because I want to ask you somestuff.

SPEAKER_15 (01:40:21):
I gotta go.
Because I'm in the car rightnow.
I'm waiting for my dad to comeback from Instac.

SPEAKER_13 (01:40:27):
Okay, you're in high school.
How did you find our show?

SPEAKER_15 (01:40:30):
Uh I don't really remember actually.
Oh, wait, wait, Wagner.
Wagner.
I love Wagner.
He's the one who got me into themanual and stuff.
So you're streaming with him uhone day, maybe a year or two
ago, and I've just been watchingit ever since.

SPEAKER_13 (01:40:46):
And how old are you?

SPEAKER_15 (01:40:48):
Can't disclose, maybe.
I I'm 15.

SPEAKER_13 (01:40:52):
Oh, dude, that is so awesome that you take your faith
this seriously at 15, dude.
Like that like that I'm really,really, really happy that you're
taking your faith thisseriously.
You're already thinking aboutjoining the Dominicans.
That is so awesome, man.
Um, what state are you in?
Maryland.
Maryland, dude.

(01:41:13):
Good for you, man.
I you know something?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Um, I heard Dr.
Kwaznewski talk about ThomasAquinas College in California.
I don't know if you want to gothat far.
Mike, do you Mike, do you knowany small colleges offhand?
Like, because my my kids didn'tgo to college.
I didn't let them.
Like my kids are both in tradeprograms.
Um, I have my son doing like a awelding program, my daughter's

(01:41:36):
doing aesthetician school.
But dude, I am so happy to heara 15-year-old is taking their
faith this seriously.
Yeah, well, don't really uh nosorry, man.

SPEAKER_15 (01:41:48):
Sorry.
Uh I just kind of want to go tocollege.
I I just want somethingexpensive because my parents
kind of uh want to.
They don't really under reallyuh I don't know if they're okay
with me joining the Dominicansbecause they're they're uh still
Protestant.

SPEAKER_18 (01:42:03):
Uh wow, dude.
That's crazy, dude.
God bless you, man.
Okay, so I I heard Matt Fratt ispromoting oh, I can't remember
the college or the university.
Uh Saint Joseph, Saint Josephthe worker, I think.
That's yeah, that that that'sright.
I think that's more got it to dowith the trades.
I'm not sure if it's there'sactual formation there.
You should look into it though,because a part of it is not

(01:42:23):
being crazy expensive, being intons of debt.
So you should look into that ifyou haven't already, brother.

SPEAKER_13 (01:42:28):
Or Christendom College, because I know Michael
Hitchborne sent his son toChristendom College.
Look into that.
But listen, I know your parentsare Protestant.
I know you kind of sneak in thisphone call in.

SPEAKER_15 (01:42:38):
They're gonna um I'm I'm cooked if they find the
stream.
So cooked.

SPEAKER_13 (01:42:41):
Don't worry about it, man.
We're all gonna be praying foryou, man.
God bless you and stay and staystay on the journey you're on,
man.
You're gonna you're gonna have afruitful life, brother.

SPEAKER_15 (01:42:51):
Thank you.
I'm very glad I got to talk toyou guys.

SPEAKER_13 (01:42:53):
Me too, man.
It was nice to meet you.
God bless you, bro.
Uh um, you well, uh I'm gonnasay this before we bring the
next guest on because we do haveuh Matthew and Don't Tread uh
Don't Tread on Chuck.
Um, the one thing I've I'vefound so interesting about our
show is um it they're all youngmen that watch our show, first

(01:43:14):
off, and it's not and they'renot white, a lot of them, you
know.
So it's like when I when I hearthe gropers talking about the
stuff they're talking about, Ikind of get frustrated by it,
you know?
And I don't know, I don't knowhow you feel about this, but it
especially because there are sofew white guys that take their
faith seriously.

(01:43:35):
It's like if your daughter meetsa guy who's like Spanish or
something, but he takes hisfaith seriously, like what's
more important to you that yourgrandchildren have the faith, or
that your daughter marries awhite guy?
Like, I don't know, I don't knowwhat the answer is on that.
I mean, my daughters aren'tdating yet, it's just I don't

(01:43:56):
know what like for me, whatwould be more important is
passing the Catholic faith downto my to my grandchildren, you
know?
It's a tricky question.
It's not you know, I get thewhole conversation that's going
on in the public right now, butthere's so few options out there
for women right now of guys whotake their faith seriously.

SPEAKER_18 (01:44:17):
All I'm gonna say is Italians are Lebanese only,
because my wife's Lebanese, I'mItalian.
That's my opinion.
I'm just gonna like leave itsimple without getting into the
going down the rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_13 (01:44:28):
You're you're sticking with that.
I mean, I'm like sticking withit, dude.
It's like that's it.
All right, and then we gotItalians aren't white, Italians
are just European Mexicans,especially southern Italians.
Where's your family from,Anthony?

(01:44:49):
Do you know where um I so I knowmy dad's side's from Sicily, my
mom's side's from Naples, andthen and then I have Irish too.
Like my mom's mom is is Irish,so it's like I'm I'm like 75
Italian, like 20 Irish, and thenI think my my dad's grandmother
was German, so I might have someGerman in there and stuff.
It's like it's I'm you'reItalian, stop it.

(01:45:12):
You're not I am Italian, but I'mI am a mutt, like I do have a
mixture in there, but I it'sjust something I've been
thinking about because like I'mI I don't know, like when I go
to my Latin mass parish, it'slike there's not a lot of white
guys there, it's like it's allit's all like Spanish guys and
Latino guys and something.

(01:45:32):
I'm like, oh man, it's not thatarranged marriage.

SPEAKER_18 (01:45:35):
We know I've I know a lot of uh uh uh young couples
with kids around our age thatare very pious.
It's like that's that's justwhat we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_13 (01:45:44):
I kind of feel like this, Bobby, and I'm not I like
I haven't made a decision onthis yet.
It's just I think it's perfectlyacceptable to want your kids to
look like you, but if that'syour top priority, you've lost
the plot.
Like, I I don't know, man.
It's a it's a question I gottawrestle with, and we'll see.

SPEAKER_18 (01:45:55):
You know, it's definitely it's it's one of
those questions you got towrestle with, no doubt.

SPEAKER_13 (01:45:59):
Yeah, all right, Matthew, what's happening, bro?
How's it going, brothers?
Oh, Mathieu, are you FrenchCanadian?
Absolutely, my friend.
Of course you are.
What's up, Matthew?

SPEAKER_02 (01:46:08):
I mean, yeah, you were talking about Canada.
I mean, just like after theSecond Vatican Council, like
that's when really the thesilent revolution, tranquil,
they call it in French,happened, and you know, the
church started, you know, losingits grasp on Quebec society.
And you just it just like thesociety is just not what it used
to be.
I mean, it used to be like theseEuropean, great-looking churches

(01:46:30):
everywhere, and now it's justlike a desolate wasteland of
Catholicism.
It's like, what is going onhere?
How old are you?
I'm 19, brother.

SPEAKER_13 (01:46:38):
19.
So, okay, so do you have anykind of a community of other
Catholics who take their faithseriously at your age?

SPEAKER_02 (01:46:44):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Uh, I mean, I go to uh in Ottawaand to St.
Clement's.
We have a we have a very goodparish community there.
I mean, it's a great, afantastic community.
Okay, that's so.
I mean, we go like after mass,we always go out to eat.
It's it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_13 (01:46:58):
Like, yeah, Canada is such a strange thing to me
because it is like CatholicCanada.
Like, it was there was duringWorld War II, the Pope was going
to escape to Canada because itwas so Catholic, and he was
worried about the Nazis cominginto Italy and stuff.
And it's like man, you you thinkabout the loss of what uh what

(01:47:21):
they've gone through over thepast 75 years and how they just
man, it's just devastating.
You you you just it it's it'sone of those things where it's
the same thing as Europe, wherebecause it was formerly
Christendom, its fall away fromthe faith is so much more
devastating than even inAmerica.
Because in America, you stillkind of have a Christian

(01:47:42):
culture, it's not Catholic byany means, but like Jesus is
able to be spoken about, and youstill have this very Christian
culture, and nobody thinksyou're weird if you go to church
and stuff.
But when you hear the storiesout of Europe and Canada, it's
just so crazy to me that theseformerly Catholic countries have
just abandoned their faith theway they have.

SPEAKER_02 (01:48:02):
Yeah, and I mean Peter Kay said on the on the
podcast of Matt Fratt, I watchedthe whole like three hours, and
it was like the corruption ofthe best is the worst.
That's exactly what it is.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 (01:48:11):
What do you think of Peugeot?
Do you like Peugeot?

SPEAKER_02 (01:48:15):
I mean, I haven't really looked at much as uh as
at Jonathan Peugeot's stuff.
I mean, I mean, I've heard thatyou know, Rob Hayes' voice.
That's a couple of times on I'veseen it a couple of times on
Jordan Peterson, but likehonestly, I haven't, you know,
like I mean, honestly, like mostof us, like like even like my
family's Catholic roots werejust completely eviscerated.

(01:48:35):
Like my my grandmother was theonly really biased one.
And it's like, I don't blamethese people for going to
orthodoxy or going to SaticEvakantism or the SSPX, which is
so big there.
I don't blame them whatsoever.
What uh what sparked your faithback up if your family's biased?
Uh well, I I go to universityand some group of uh Catholic

(01:48:57):
missionaries came up to me, andit took me like a year to
discern, and then I had to stopcoping.
I know I mean this is the truth.
I had to join.
It is what it is.

SPEAKER_18 (01:49:09):
Well, you're your dude.
Sorry, sorry, I was just gonnasay, Mike.
Then we could we're gonna we'rerepaving the path forward for
our families.
So that's that that's it.
That's I mean, that's thatthat's part of my motivation as
well for practicing as hard as Ido, is not just because I love
God, but also because that's thefuture.
Otherwise, like Canada, I mean,the whole all of the West is

(01:49:30):
just gonna go to hell in ahandbasket.
If the men in particular don'ttake it, don't take it
seriously.
I mean, that's just that's whatit comes down to.

SPEAKER_02 (01:49:36):
Yeah, I mean, we've watched, you know, as the faith
has collapsed, it's like thedominion of Satan has been like
enthroned all over the West.
And it's like, what's going onhere?
I mean, this is not okay.
Like, we gotta stop this.
And I mean, there's a lot ofhope in our community because
it's growing slowly but surely.
I mean, it's growing as like ourour parish was packed on
Sundays, it's a decently bigparish.
I mean, the story of how theykept the Latin mass, like

(01:49:58):
they've been a Latin mass evenlike right after the council,
like they kept it through likethe St.
Clements parish group, they'vekept it for like 50 years after
the council.
Yeah.
Before they got before they gottaken over by the S FSSP.
But yeah, I mean, it's a it is asome crazy stories, man.

SPEAKER_13 (01:50:16):
You you guys, you guys, when you call in and I see
all you young guys calling in,how'd you find our show?

SPEAKER_02 (01:50:21):
Um honestly, I I mean, I just it popped up on my
feed, and like I forget whatwhat it was, but I was kind of
like, these guys are off therails.
And then a couple weeks later, acouple weeks later, I see
something in the news, and I'mlike, these guys were totally
right about this.
I'm like, yeah, I gotta listento these guys again, and then
you know, I just got hooked ontothe show.

SPEAKER_13 (01:50:40):
Uh we're very happy to have you, Matthew.
Uh that thank you for joiningus, man.
It was nice to meet you.
Keep the face to you.
You gotta wake up, you're 19,you gotta, you gotta, you got a
good start on your life.
Meet meet a nice girl and get aand just always keep it always
keep it close to you.
It's the most important thingyou'll ever have in your life.
God bless you, guys.
Nice meeting you.
Um, I dude, I love that it's allyoung guys that call in, man.

(01:51:03):
It's like it's such an awesomething to me.
Um, all right, don't tread onChuck.
What's happening, bro?

SPEAKER_01 (01:51:09):
Hey Anthony, Mike, thanks for having me, guys.
Uh, I think this is a littlemore directed to Anthony because
I know you have some uhdifficult family stuff that we
hear you go on and on about, butI've got little kids and I'm
really struggling with how tohandle all the invalid marriages

(01:51:30):
around.
This is a huge problem, I'm sureyou guys know.
But as I'm as my kids get oldenough to learn about the
sacrament of marriage, I'mworried about, you know, even my
wife's parents might even havean invalid marriage, you know.
So I don't really know what'sthe best way to handle this.

(01:51:52):
You know, I I know it's a bigdeal to just say, like, hey, uh
I don't want you guys displayingthat you're in a romantic
relationship while it's not avalid marriage in front of the
kids.
So I'm just curious how youhandle this in your own life.
If if you have this scenariogoing on, I don't know if you

(01:52:14):
do.

SPEAKER_13 (01:52:14):
I I'll tell you this.
Um, one of the ways I've talkedto my kids about this is kind of
showing the dysfunction of therelationship because we have a
lot of like family members thatdon't take their faith
seriously.
I have family members that areliving out of wedlock, I have

(01:52:36):
family members that are, youknow, kind of and their lives
are very chaotic.
Um, you know, um, and I've usedthat as a way to show my
children how important thesacrament of marriage is.
And it's it's it's like, okay,you see the people who don't
take God seriously in theirlives, and you see how chaotic

(01:52:58):
their lives are.
This is the consequence of notactually having a life grounded
in God and the sacraments.
Because I even have familymembers who um they're like
they're cradle Catholics, butthey're no longer going to
church or anything like that,and they're raising their kids
without God, and you kind of seethe way their kids are handling

(01:53:19):
life, and it's just kind ofchaotic.
So, I mean, how old are yourkids?
They're how little?

SPEAKER_01 (01:53:24):
Uh, my boys are five and my daughter's three.
I have twin boys and athree-year-old daughter.

SPEAKER_13 (01:53:30):
Yeah, I mean, look, you're not gonna have to have
those deep conversations yet,but as they get into their teen
years, like the thing is, I wasalways terrified of having
teenagers because I was a crazyteenager and I got into a lot of
trouble.
But what you'll find is,especially with your boys, that
as they get older, they'reactually smart enough to start
understanding deeper concepts,and you can have conversations

(01:53:52):
with your boys that maybe yourdad never had with you.
Um, and it's kind of an excitingtime when they start hitting 13
and 14, and you can starttalking to them about typology,
and you can start talking tothem about how the reason
marriage is a sacrament and thatit's indissoluble is the same
reason why when when a priestconsecrates the host, you can't

(01:54:15):
unconsecrate it.
Once that host becomes JesusChrist, it can't be undone.
And it's the same thing withmarriage.
Marriage, once a marriage isconsummated, you cannot it is a
consummated marriage and itcannot be undone.
And when when you start to seethe those invalid marriages and
kind of the chaoticrelationships, kind of use that

(01:54:37):
as the the reason we don't gothat route.

SPEAKER_01 (01:54:41):
I think uh I get all that, but I think really what I
struggle with is extremelypractical things.
Like, for instance, I have acousin that was divorced, and my
kids knew the husband, and nowmy cousin has a boyfriend, and
we're about to move back toproximity with that cousin, and

(01:55:05):
these are the kind of things Ihave a difficulty with.
Like, what what kind of lines doyou draw with things like this?
You know, like everyone can theboyfriend come over for
Thanksgiving?
I don't really know if what ifwhat if that means my cousin
doesn't come over?

SPEAKER_13 (01:55:22):
So yeah, no, you you do let them come over.
You just there's line the linewould be like if they're staying
over the house, like they can'tstay in the same bedroom, right?
Right, you know what I mean?
But like you have to teach yourchildren to love everybody and
not look upon everybody withjudgment because the last thing
you want to do is just startpointing the finger at people
around you, and and then youkind of cut off any avenue to

(01:55:45):
ever have a conversation withthem for grace.
And it's uh and your kids willbe smart, man.
Your kids are gonna you'rethey're going to see because
look, if they're divorced andthey're getting involved in
another relationship, I'mtelling you that relationship's
going to be chaotic.
That's kind of the way you'regoing to be able to teach your
children about it.
Like, I mean, I don't know,Mike.
Do you have a do you havedifferent advice on that?

SPEAKER_18 (01:56:06):
Yeah, I mean, I think I think your your your
your thoughts and your energyshould be probably allocated
somewhere else, and notattending too much focus and
energy on this right now withyour kids being so young.
It just, I mean, everything yousaid, Anthony, is perfect.
It's opportunities, a little alearning lesson, an opportunity
for for for learning andteaching and further catechizing
your children.
But I don't know, these thingsnever really came to my mind,

(01:56:26):
uh, to to be completely honest.

SPEAKER_13 (01:56:28):
No, and like as situations come up, you might
have to have deep conversations.
I mean, that's just but lookforward to those deep
conversations, like you shouldlook forward to those deep
conversations because that is achance to like deepen your
children's faith in thosesituations.
And it's I mean, my kids aresmart, man, and as they get
older, they're going to see thechaos in the in those

(01:56:50):
situations.
But yeah, I would say the lineis like you can't you can't
invite them for Thanksgiving,love them.
That's your cousin.
Like, it's not your job to likeregulate other people's lives
like that.
Um, but I would say like a linewould be like you can't permit
fornication in your presence,you know.
So if they're staying at yourhouse, it's like you guys aren't

(01:57:12):
married, you're not staying in aroom together, but you know,
this is your life.
I'm not here to judge you.
It's just there's lines in myhouse that my children are never
going to see.

SPEAKER_01 (01:57:21):
Yeah, I will say, just uh as we finish this
conversation, I definitely dothink, you know, I converted
five years ago and I wasbasically a trad from the
get-go.
This is a big problem in thetrad movement because I think
there is um a section of thetrad movement that would say,

(01:57:43):
like, don't let your cousin comeover with her new boyfriend,
like cut that person out of yourlife.
And I think I I would I mighthave thought that in 2020 or
2021, but I think that is a bigissue um that needs to be
addressed.
And I do see that now, that thatis kind of like the rad trad

(01:58:04):
tendency.

SPEAKER_18 (01:58:06):
I don't know.
I've never seen anything likethat from the trads personally
at all.
Um, at least in the small timelength of time I've been
involved in traditionalCatholicism.
Um, I think you know, makingprudential judgments like
Anthony said about them notsleeping in the same room
together, or if there is amarriage of two laps Catholics
that you're not going to thatwedding.
I mean, these things are just uhI think these are common sense

(01:58:27):
items, but like to cut them offand not bring them into your
house, you know, granted they'renot doing anything ludicrous or
whatever inside your home.
I think, I mean, that that's adifferent story.
I mean, it is also anopportunity to you know bring
the light of Christ to them insome way, either by showing them
the fruits of your household,which does work, dude.
I've seen it in my own family,man.
A bunch of labs Catholics, Godbless them.
And then my mom's havingdifferent conversations with me,

(01:58:49):
my brother's having differentconversations with me because
they just see the fruit that hasbeen that is you know been
produced in my household becauseof the grace of God and how
we've you know uh practiced ourfaith.
So I mean, be prudent.
I think uh yeah, absolutely.
Anthony's advice was perfect.

SPEAKER_13 (01:59:07):
Yeah, thanks.
All right, it was it was nicemeeting you, brother.
Um, okay, we got David up next.
What's happening, David?

SPEAKER_21 (01:59:14):
So can you guys hear me?
Yeah, okay.
So I have a quick question here.
All right, so my my parents areboth baptized Catholics, and and
they um only recently, like acouple years ago, they got um
married uh sacramentally, butwhen they when I was born, they

(01:59:35):
were only married civilly.
Would I be considered a bastard?
No.

SPEAKER_13 (01:59:40):
No.
No, no, a bastard would meanyour father doesn't claim you.
Like, like you, like, even so,like, even um uh Pope Alexander
VI, like he had bastardchildren, but once he claimed
them, they were no longerbastards, and he was not married
even, you know, like you you canlegitimize your children even if

(02:00:02):
you're never married like yourbastard children are just like
that i don't i don't know idon't even know how that would
even function in today's day andage uh like i think if the
father recognizes the child ashis own especially if you have
your father's last name you'renot a bastard okay yeah i just
wanted to know because like myparents like only to like um i
would say like six years agothey got married sacramentally

(02:00:24):
they were only married civillyso yeah that would imply mike's
first two children are bastardsright mike yeah that would imply
i definitely claim my childrenyeah that's definitely not an
issue dude you are you're youare your dad's son you're not a
bastard so what would be thedifference between a natural
marriage and a sacramentalmarathon well the church

(02:00:47):
recognizes natural marriages umwe would just because they're
not sacramental they're notgoing to like that is a that is
an odd thing like the churchrecognizes like civil marriage
right so even if you don't getmarried sacramentally in the
church like if you have if youhave uh let's say you're not
catholic and you get marriedcivilly um and then you get

(02:01:10):
divorced and then you have aconversion and become catholic
you still need an annulment youstill need the church to to to
put put uh uh the decree ofannulment on that first marriage
even though it was a civilmarriage and you weren't even
Catholic at the time so it'slike the church recognizes civil
marriage um the the differenceis in a sacramental marriage a

(02:01:33):
sacramental marriage earns yougrace to heaven okay thank you
that's all I wanted to knowthough you're you're not a
bastard david you're good don'tworry brother um yeah I'm I mean
I'm not like an expert on thisstuff but like that I mean I I I
can't imagine I was wrong onthat right no I don't think it

(02:01:55):
doesn't sound like you were Imean I mean otherwise there are
a lot of bastards out therewhat's up David is this same
david did I did I did I bringthis up okay sorry uh this is
yeah Alex Pope Alexander hadlike seven kids and he um he I

(02:02:18):
don't think he I don't think herecognized all of them though
like he he recognized likeCesare and and Juan and but I
don't think he recognized allseven yeah like to to recognize
your I think that's all that abastard means right like you're
you're just um I always thoughtof it as like you having uh a a

(02:02:40):
child out of wedlock not beingmarried like you're a bastard
because you're not like in inunder the the sort of I guess
the protect not protection butthe the container of marriage
but maybe I got that completelywrong.
Yeah well I think at like at oneat one point that might have
been the case but I think if Ithink if your kid even if you're
not married and your kid hasyour last name like a bastard is

(02:03:02):
a child with no father.
I think that's the classicdefinition of the term.

SPEAKER_18 (02:03:08):
I think you're right I think I I think you're right.

SPEAKER_13 (02:03:11):
I think just think there's a whole bunch of us out
here with daddy issues and thinkwe're bastards because we hate
our dads the definition has beenchanged it's been watered down
yeah I think like a bastard issomebody without a dad like a
like like there's a lot ofbastards in certain communities
because the fathers take off andyou know it's like but I'm

(02:03:33):
bastards playing all right wegot Jim uh how long you got till
Mike I don't want to keep you onall night.

SPEAKER_18 (02:03:41):
No I'm I'm good I probably have to just like take
a piss a little bit butotherwise I'm good.

SPEAKER_13 (02:03:45):
Me too I don't know how much longer I'm making it
either what's up Jim yeah what'sup guys how are you going on
good man cool cool um and Ichatted you what were you
talking about earlier your tweetabout um the idea of wait you

(02:04:05):
the idea of what uh Gustintalking about like religion as a
concept oh that's right oh allright so you're Jim Pine yeah
yeah uh um okay so um all rightso uh Dinesh D'Souza uh let me
bring up Dinesh de Sousa's tweetuh let me see um let me bring up

(02:04:31):
Dinesh's tweet okay so okay sookay here we go so Dinesh de
Sousa said Jesus was a Jew not aChristian he didn't practice
Christianity he attendedsynagogue and kept the Sabbath
he taught out of the Hebrewscriptures which were the only
ones he knew he claimed to bethe fulfillment not the

(02:04:53):
repudiation of the Hebrewscriptures and prophets so I
said modern people don't reallyget the idea of having a
religion is actually a Christianconcept it was developed by
Augustine saying Jesus was a Jewas it's understood today is
absurd.
What we understand as a Jew likesomebody have like a Muslim

(02:05:14):
having the Muslim religion thisis an idea that's developed by
Augustine because when he'strying to work out the
difference in the religious andthe secular the Jews were a
people they weren't a religionright so Jesus is a descendant
of David he yes he does followthe Hebrew scriptures and all
that but he's not it's not likehe believes Judaism that's not

(02:05:38):
what it is he's he they like theJews back then are just a people
and that's always how all likeeven when you understand
paganism like it wasn't theirreligion there were it they were
just pagans and they were apeople and they did these
ceremonies but the idea thatlike somebody somebody practices
a certain faith is is of a veryum like the the period of time

(02:06:03):
would be would be like the darkages when that when that starts
to get developed like we livetoday in such Christian waters
that so many of the concepts weunderstand are just Christian
concepts but the Jews wouldnever have seen themselves as
like the people of the Jewswould never have seen themselves
like apart from the things theydid their rituals and it

(02:06:27):
wouldn't have been like thisidea now where you have like uh
Jews who don't actually believethe religion and stuff they're
still Jews it's not whereCatholics like if you're a
fallen away Catholic you're notreally a Catholic right yeah but
a Jew like a secular Jew whodoesn't believe anything about
the the Hebrew Bible they'restill a Jew it's a it's a very
different thing from Christiansand like having this conversion

(02:06:50):
experience and now I believethis thing and I have this
religion it's a it's a Christianconcept that never existed
before Christianity.

SPEAKER_10 (02:07:00):
I don't know if that makes sense but sort of yeah
I've just like been you knowI've seen clips of Nick talking
about like the JQ like peopletalk about is it an ethnicity or
like just a religion or all thatstuff so that kind of makes
sense from that standpoint.

SPEAKER_13 (02:07:16):
Yeah it is like the the Jews are a very interesting
group because they're the mostunique right like there's
nothing like it because they arean ethnicity but there are it's
also like a religion we shoulddo a show on Romans 9 10 and 11
is what we should do because inRomans 9 10 and 11 Paul talks

(02:07:36):
about all Israel will be saved.
Now is he talking aboutspiritual Israel or ethnic
Israel and it's like this islike something that like
theologians have been wrestlingwith it's like all right well
Paul is saying all Israel willbe saved.
Is he talking about spiritualIsrael which would be us because
we're the children of thepromise or is he talking about
ethnic Israel and he's actuallytalking about ethnic Israel in

(02:07:57):
Romans 9 10 and 11 and ethnicIsrael to the point where like
the the Israelites are 12 tribesright but after the temple the
first temple is destroyed the 10northern tribes break off and
what you call Jews today areonly the southern two tribes the
tribe of Judah and the tribe ofBenjamin but those 10 northern

(02:08:19):
tribes leave you have theSamaritans like Jesus goes to
the Samaritans right like allthe time like Jesus is always
going to the Samaritans and youhave to understand what
Samaritans are they're heretics.
They have the Pentateuch rightthey have all the the the the
five books of Moses they don'thave any of the prophets and
then they mix in idol worship soJesus keeps going to them and

(02:08:42):
the Jews are scandalized by thisthey're like why are you going
to the Samaritans?
And Jesus is like I've come tocall the lost children of Israel
and Jesus is going out to getthose 10 northern tribes now the
10 northern tribes are soscattered amongst the nations
that the only way God canactually save all 12 tribes is
by converting the gentilesbecause they're so gentilized at

(02:09:05):
that point that they'regentiles.
So the way the new covenantworks is like God fulfills
Romans 9 10 and 11 and allIsrael is saved he's not talking
about every single individualJew.
He's just saying Jews from all12 tribes he's preserved a
remnant in every one of thosetribes and when the new covenant
goes out he he brings them intothe new covenant and all 12

(02:09:27):
tribes are then saved.
So it's to say a Jew like Jesuswas a Jew yeah he like he was a
descendant of David but likereligion the way we understand
like rabbinic Judaism is sodifferent from the Judaism that
exists in Christ's time whenthey have a temple and
sacrifices like rabbinic Judaismis what's invented it's

(02:09:49):
Phariseeism essentially thatgets invented after the
destruction of the temple in 70AD Phariseeism Jesus is going
after the Pharisees all the timethose are the people that exist
today like that the people thatJesus is fighting with and and
condemning throughout the NewTestament that's the Judaism
that exists today.
So to say Jesus is a Jew is kindof a crazy thing to say it's not

(02:10:12):
it's not right rooted inreality.
Yeah so so you're gonna take the7000 post if they would I would
I would have to consider it Icould use the seven grand I mean
that's a lot of money those boatmotors aren't getting any
cheaper you know um maybe wewill do a show on Romans 9 10
and 11 one day because it's it'sone of the most amazing like uh

(02:10:34):
it's one of the hardest epistlesto understand other than um
other than Hebrews like Hebrewsis bonkers if you if you don't
understand the Jewish like rootsof sacrifice and stuff but
Romans 9 10 and 11 is a is areally good one so maybe we'll
do that one I'll have to studyit again because that it's been

(02:10:54):
years since I did but um thankyou Jim love you brother you I
just want to have one last shoutout to uh Chris from Crash
Cannon he uh recommended thesame microphone to me he did for
religious hyping Catholicengineer so you know I just
wanted to back up for that youknow you want to be a new girl
dude you're good um yeah that'sit's like throughout the old

(02:11:24):
testament God is promising tounite the 12 tribes of Israel
right like it's like one of thepromises.
He's like oh we're gonna unitethe 12 tribes of Israel so
everybody you'll see Protestantstoday being like well where are
the lost tribes where are thelost tribes well the lost tribes
were dispersed amongst thenations so when the new covenant
goes out and Paul starts likepreaching to in Greece and

(02:11:45):
Thessalonica and Ephesus and allthese different places the
remnant of Israelites is inthose nations and they wind up
converting and that's how Godgathers the 12 nations together.

SPEAKER_18 (02:11:58):
The thing is the people don't most normies that
want to shill for Israel and theZionists don't think about it
beyond uh um these like epithetsthat mean nothing that
essentially just point towardthem shilling for Israel.
That's like one of those justclassical things that even me
with relatively not as muchknowledge as you on this stuff

(02:12:18):
can say like yeah that's totalBS.
Like I know what you're tryingto say but it's not the same
thing.

SPEAKER_13 (02:12:22):
It's just so silly and the thing is like the Jews
play a very significant part inthe story of Christianity even
today and they will in theapocalypse as well and there's
going to be like the the theAntichrist is going to be the
Jewish messiah and they're goingto persecute the Christians and

(02:12:44):
then at the end of time therewill be a reunification of of
the the the brothers it's goingto be like Joseph reuniting with
his brothers who sold him intoslavery his brother Judah who
sold him into slavery for 20pieces of silver which is
literally a typologicalidentical typological

(02:13:04):
fulfillment of Christ being soldby Judas for 30 pieces of silver
right and the the like we getthe 12 tribes of Israel from
Israel's 12 sons and theyoungest is Joseph who gets sold
into slavery and then later onunites his his other 11 brothers
who are like about going througha famine and they're going to

(02:13:27):
die unless he saves them youknow but that unification will
happen again it's just that'show the story is going to play
out.

SPEAKER_18 (02:13:34):
Man I'm just over here trying to be a good
Catholic bro that's all thisthis whole like JQ talk that
people are into online I'm likeman this is like it's so
exhausting what you're sayingall this stuff I mean this
actually has like historical andand well it's the logical like I
I like theological relevance butI'm like man this whole
conversation so exhausting Inever talk about it from uh I

(02:13:56):
never talk about it from aposition of there they run the
banks they run you know like Idon't care about that stuff I
care about the story ofChristianity of course very much
like I care about how the storyplays out and there is enmity
between the people of the oldcovenant and the people of the
new covenant through and it'sit's every story in the old

(02:14:17):
testament if you read it you'llfind that the the birthright is
supposed to go to the eldest sonand something happens where it
winds up going to the secondbornevery time like Israel is God's
firstborn son but Christ is theone who gets the promise right
it's like there's there's thethe promise goes to the gentiles

(02:14:38):
when Israel should have gottenit right so but when you look at
Jacob and Esau um Esau is thefirstborn and he's talking with
his brother Jacob and he tradeshis birthright for a bowl of
stew and then Jacob's motherthen goes to to uh the father
and says dresses Jacob up with ahairy arm to make him look like

(02:15:06):
Isau and then brings brings himto the father and the father
touches the arm and thinks it'sIsao and he winds up giving the
birthright to Jacob.

SPEAKER_13 (02:15:14):
Like this is actual typology for our lady as well
like we go and we bring ourstuff to our lady and she then
presents it to the father forus.

SPEAKER_18 (02:15:24):
Like this is a very important typological story to
understand our lady's role aswell you know yeah I didn't get
uh red pilled on that until Iread Tim Staples' book Behold
Your Mother and then when I readthat and all of what you just
said and then some I dude Iwould sit there reading a
chapter at a time putting itdown and just having like galaxy
brain just mind utterly blown atall this stuff and it's it's

(02:15:48):
it's I don't know it's it's Idon't this is why I I appreciate
it I'm so I marvel at like thelevel of intelligence that the
guys like Josh Charles have tojust talk about this like
endlessly I'm like where do youstuff it in that big head man
like especially I mean if youwant a good book on the typology
of our lady St.

SPEAKER_13 (02:16:06):
Alphonsus Ligori's The Glories of Mary is
phenomenal.
That's one I still have to getthat is that book is phenomenal
like he goes through some of thetypology of our lady that is
unbelievable.
And then um uh brand petri'sgreat on her too brand petri I

(02:16:26):
forgot what book um but yeahlike I like every woman in
scripture in the old testamentis in some way like giving you a
glimpse into the life of ourlady you know I mean we will go
to the one of of of uh Solomon'smother the uh Bathsheba because
he's got 700 concubines so hismother is the queen and that

(02:16:50):
like that's how the Divinickingdom works where you have the
queen mother right and that'sour lady prefigured but there's
so many of those sort like everysingle woman in the Bible even
um who's the woman who um likethere's one that prefigures our
lady crushing the serpent's headwhere she like she she throws a

(02:17:10):
rock at someone's head and Idon't know they're all they're
all in there the book of Estherall of them they all prefigure
her so all right boys I thinkwe're gonna wrap this one up
it's 1030.
Mike I always love hanging withyou man likewise brother it's
always a pleasure man let's uhdefinitely do it again it's a
Friday night and uh and we had agood time tonight so uh all you

(02:17:32):
young guys that called in man welove you guys thank you guys for
supporting our show uh andhanging with us on a Friday
night this show is a little bitall over the place but I think
we all had a good time um so ifyou guys can go go check out
Mike's YouTube channel Mike'strying to grow that YouTube
channel and it's had some reallygood growth so just look up Mike
Pantile on uh YouTube and youwill come across Mike's channel

(02:17:56):
uh he does a lot of good stuffon there and what's what's the
other one Instagram you're onright yeah Instagram x get
youtube and yeah Mike Pantilefind me there and then stay
tuned because I got uh mighthave a a weekly show coming up
here guys so stay tuned for thatas well that'll probably be on
YouTube in addition to thenetwork Mike's gonna sell out
he's gonna go mainstream he'sjoining Catholic Inc.

(02:18:16):
I'm just telling you guys I gotthe call boys Mike that was how
quiet I was during the JQconversation I'm just kidding
you are you are the guy they'repicking to replace voice of
reason all right guys we willsee you guys on Tuesday night
thank you for joining us we willsee you guys next time love you

(02:18:39):
bro see

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