Massie's New Wife Sparks Faith Debate Across America

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What if the hardest part of grief isn’t the loss itself, but how the living watch you handle it? We dive straight into a thorny question: is there a “right” time to remarry after a spouse dies, especially when children are still grieving and the internet is watching? We don’t hand out rules; we wrestle with the difference between what’s allowed, what’s wise, and what’s respectful when private sorrow meets public platforms.

That candor opens into a bigger reflection on how people instinctively talk to their dead and what that says about prayer, memory, and the communion of saints. We explore why Marian devotion feels so natural, how a mother uniquely suffers with her children, and why many Catholics bristled at a recent Vatican document discouraging titles like Co-Redemptrix. The theology is one thing; the message it sends to the faithful is another. We try to hold both—truth and tenderness—without dumbing anything down.

To ground today’s heat, we turn to Genesis. Younger over older, betrayal and reunion, Judah and Joseph—those messy family stories echo through salvation history, from Adam and Christ to Eve and Mary. We connect those patterns to modern culture wars, fear-based politics, and the outrage economy. Why did a tame interview spark a wildfire? What happens when panic and censorship drive people into echo chambers? Meanwhile, real pressures—debt, housing, wages, family breakdown—grind on in the background. Our aim is clarity: honor grief without spectacle, love Mary without apology, value nation without idolatry, and keep your eyes on what actually shapes lives.

If this conversation challenged you or gave you language for something you’ve felt, share it with a friend, subscribe for more, and leave a review so others can find the show. Your take: does public grief need public rules?

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_03 (00:30):
What happened to Taffy?

SPEAKER_04 (00:33):
I don't know if we had one this time.

SPEAKER_03 (00:35):
Bailed on us?
Is Taffy?
I'm always like excited to seethe intro video, and Taffy let
us go.

SPEAKER_04 (00:40):
Let me maybe he sent one and I just see Rob's heart's
not in it.

SPEAKER_03 (00:45):
Rob's heart's not in it tonight.
Well, he only chose the worsttop.

SPEAKER_04 (00:50):
Oh crap, he did send one.

SPEAKER_03 (00:52):
Yeah, of course, Rob.
You are not.
Here's the thing.
Rob doesn't ever trust me when Itell him what we're gonna talk
about.

SPEAKER_04 (00:59):
I don't know why.
Well, literally every reply tothe tweet that today asked why
the hell we were doing this one.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11):
I don't know.
Sometimes I got a little rant inme, and sometimes I think
something's interesting.
Even if you people don'tunderstand it, it might be
interesting.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18):
Yeah, guys, you gotta see.
Anthony doesn't care what youwant.
I don't care.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24):
Yes, I talk about what I want to talk about, and
you guys come along for theride.
We'll see how it does.
I don't always win.
I don't know.
Do the best I can.
Um, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 (01:33):
So so even the the little coaching software that uh
you know will tell me it'swhat's a good title and and
stuff.
Yeah, basically, I put this one.
I I I type this one in, and it'slike this does not seem to match
with your audience.

SPEAKER_03 (01:50):
I'm like, I know, right?
Well, I think try to tell him Ithink he should just went with
the title I gave.
I think it would have beenbecause I think the debate, the
debate, it's not really likeit's a debate, but like uh
Thomas Massey, who cares?
His wife, his wife passed a yearago, right?
Um, and I remember when his wifepassed, like everybody, like all

(02:12):
these conspiracy theories cameout because like it was all it
was like seemed like it was sosudden, and everybody was like
right away went to like youknow, was not everyone, a few
idiots on Twitter.
Most people thought like itcould have been the jab, you
know, and but his reaction atthe time was very like
nonchalant.

(02:32):
Like he he was, I don't know, heseemed a little like callous
about it.

SPEAKER_04 (02:35):
And I was like, all right, you know, he's married
for 31 years, his wife passed,and um, and then he announced on
Twitter you guys have tounderstand no matter how you act
during any sort of crisis orevent, Anthony will say it's
wrong and he'll judge you forit.
I mean, it's Twitter, you'resupposed to do that.

(02:55):
It's what you put it's for youknow what, we're we're sharing
the whole episode over.

SPEAKER_01 (03:10):
Listen, EBT is done.
No more government card, so wetake over now.
This podcast, Avoiding Babylon.

SPEAKER_03 (03:17):
We are the host, steady, logical, very catholic,
and I am wrong.
I can't believe he got the mayorof um Minnesota.
Mayor of Minnesota.
I hate the apples.
Uh it's not much different frommy uh New York City mayor that's

(03:38):
coming in.
Um so um the so he he pops up uma picture of this woman he's
getting married to.
You have a picture of it?
It's in the thumbnail.
All right, put it up.
I don't know.
Some people come in mid-stream.
Oh my gosh, guys.
I don't know how I'm supposed touh do a show with a guy that

(04:00):
doesn't want to do the show.

SPEAKER_04 (04:04):
You didn't tell me we'd have a picture ready.

SPEAKER_03 (04:07):
I mean, I put a tweet in there with my picture.
I know, I'm gonna do it.
You can pop that up.

SPEAKER_04 (04:10):
Yeah, that's what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_03 (04:14):
Why don't show it?
People think don't show allright.
So that's so that's that's hishis new wife, right?
Um, and um I asked the question,uh, should he have waited longer
than a year after his wifepassed to remarry?
And the thing is, you know,marriage uh is till death to us
part.
So I don't think there'sanything morally wrong with him

(04:36):
remarrying, but I I don't know.
Something seemed like a lack ofdecorum to just jump on social
media a year after your wife of31 years passed and just pop
that up.
I it just seemed like a lack ofdecorum in my opinion.

SPEAKER_04 (04:49):
Yeah, for a Protestant nation, maybe who,
but who cares?
Right?
I mean, it's pretty common inthe Catholic world, has been for
two millennia.

SPEAKER_03 (05:00):
Um so all right, so I the reason I thought this was
interesting is because Iactually have a situation in
that I'm that I'm pretty closeto where the wife passed and the
husband moved on kind ofquickly.
Um, it was a woman that workedwith him, and he moved on pretty

(05:22):
quickly, and it almost seemedlike the grieving process didn't
take place, and it wreaked havocon the family.
Like the the kid How did thewife pass?
Cancer.

SPEAKER_04 (05:35):
So the grieving could have been done during
that.

SPEAKER_03 (05:38):
Probably.
I mean, it was yeah, it wasprobably it was like probably
about a year process from likefinding out till till the
passing.
But the thing is, when when shepassed, the the kids were in
this like really deep grief andlike you know, going through
losing their mother, and thefather was like like a month

(05:59):
later out on dates with thisperson and like having a good
old time.
Okay, well, a month is a monthis pretty fast, it was maybe two
months, you know, like twomonths later was like out, like
doing his yeah, but Rob, likethis is a year later you're
getting married.
I mean, unless they starteddating a month ago and they just

(06:20):
got married real quick.
Like, I I you know it's it'skind of quick, so it's not but
the thing is like um like RyanGrant got married pretty
quickly, but he had nine kids,and I know saints people talk
about St.
Thomas More.
Like St.
Thomas Moore, his wife passed,but he also had like a dozen
kids.
So I don't know if there'snuance to this, right?

(06:42):
I don't know I I just don't Iguess I'm holding myself as the
standard, and I'm saying, like,there's no chance I'm moving on
from my wife that quickly, youknow.
But like, who the hell am I tohold myself up as like the
standard bearer of morality?
So I don't know.
It was just one of those thingsthat just seemed to lack
decorum, but it's it's like youalso don't want like I'm I'm

(07:07):
trying to think of it as my ifmy mom passed, right?

SPEAKER_04 (07:11):
Like I think all your you're all grown, right?

SPEAKER_03 (07:16):
So, but Thomas Massey's youngest is like uh 12
or 13, I would think.
I think I saw a picture.
They had that picture of thewhole family with the guns.
That was like a couple yearsback, it wasn't too long ago.
I think I think he has like ateen, a young teen girl.
Um, like if so, if my if my momdid pass, like you wouldn't want
your father to just be in thisdark grief forever, but you

(07:39):
would want like an appropriategrieving time, and then you'd
actually probably be happy foryour dad if he saw some light
and started like being happyagain, you know.
So I don't know.
What do you you do you don'tthink there should be some kind
of like uh a standard grievingperiod?
Like I would think at least ayear, like women.
If my wife if I pass that mywife's married within a year,

(08:00):
I'm coming back and hauntingher.
Like, no, that's not okay.

SPEAKER_04 (08:05):
Uh I think it no, there shouldn't be a standard
because everything is gonna beyou know, every situation is
different, you know, like if Iwere to pass now, you know, I
have four kids under the age ofsix.
You know, my life insurance willget them a few years at least.

(08:27):
But like my but hope in the kidsneed someone to provide for
them.

SPEAKER_03 (08:32):
Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 (08:33):
The kids are gonna need some sort of father figure
to at least protect them andhelp raise them.
So, you know, it like the thingis, like you can say, yeah,
maybe she they should wait acertain amount of time, but what
if the perfect opportunity oryou know, or a good person
presents themselves.
I don't think you should wait ifthat's the best option for the
family at that point.

(08:54):
You're insane.

SPEAKER_03 (08:55):
What you want your wife moving on in four months
because an opportunity poppedup, she's not even worried about
you anymore, bro.
You I say that stop it.
I don't hope something happensto Rob.
I'll set you up.
Don't worry, you got six weeksafter me lose his number.
Yeah, I'm gonna be over herestill trying to raise money for

(09:16):
your family, and hope's gonnahave a new husband.
Be like, what's going on here?

SPEAKER_04 (09:21):
The they no, they'll be fine, they could be fine for
10 years.

SPEAKER_03 (09:25):
Well, that's the point.
Look, I'm just saying, I I thinkthere could be an appropriate
grieving time.
Like, I I think a woman, a widowloses her husband.
Like, if she if there's a wit, Ithink a year she has to wear
black, she has to wear black fora year.
She's not like dating, is noteven like an appropriate thing
for a year.
You think that's crazy?

SPEAKER_04 (09:44):
A year it depends on the situation.
No, it does, dude.

SPEAKER_03 (09:51):
There is enough you're nuts.
You're nuts.
A year is an appropriate amountof time.

SPEAKER_04 (09:58):
How many GoFundMe's have we shared on this show and
donated to for families thatlost like uh a young husband and
they didn't have life insurance?
I still think the wife has ayear, a year for what for to go
for her kids to starve.

SPEAKER_03 (10:16):
No, she has to wear black for a year.
If the husband left his wifewith and she can't live a year
without him, then maybe that'sfine, I guess, because that guy
sucked.
That's a failure of a husband.
If you didn't leave your wifeenough money for a year after
you passed.
I mean, you have a duty to atleast have a year's a year's

(10:36):
worth of survival for yourfamily if you go, no?

SPEAKER_04 (10:39):
I would think so, yes.

SPEAKER_03 (10:42):
I mean, there's a all right, look, and that's a
little different for men.
A little different for men.

SPEAKER_04 (10:48):
Now, I'm not even saying a little different for
men.

SPEAKER_03 (10:50):
I don't know, because it's different.
I think you oh you had sixmonths for men, but they were
all half-assed.
Six months for men, a year for awoman in black.
Like you, like the thepossibility of a date isn't even
coming on your mind.

SPEAKER_04 (11:06):
Okay, here's the thing.
Here's the thing your yourpicture in your head of uh a
woman in black morning clothesis probably like the shawl, yes,
you know, the dress.
He has to basically wear a job.
Whereas you're thinking, if Ihave to wear black for a year, I
just black t-shirts.

SPEAKER_03 (11:24):
Yes, the woman has to basically look like she's
Muslim, she's gotta wear the thewhole the head covering
everything, she's gotta looklike a nun, all right, and she
has to she has to be crying forfour months straight.
Four months of crying.
This is why Erica Kirk is makingit.
No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_04 (11:42):
Because here's the thing after after after oh after
three days of crying, you'd belike, crying too much.
I don't trust it.

SPEAKER_03 (11:51):
I might.
You would if it's a woman, yeah.
Well, I probably won't trust it.
But all right, we do have totalk about Erica Kirk.
No, we don't, yes, we do.
Because you have stopped me fromtalking about this for so long.

SPEAKER_04 (12:04):
Oh, I've tried so hard to hold the back.

SPEAKER_03 (12:07):
And you have you have not let me talk about this
for so long, but from the fromthe first day she gave her
speech, I got like I texted Robthe next day.
I was like, I don't know,something's off with that check.
You and you snapped.

SPEAKER_04 (12:20):
I replied, I replied to say your every mouth do not
say that in public.

SPEAKER_03 (12:27):
Rob's like, you don't need to say your every
intrusive thought.
I'm like, I don't know, man.
I'm just telling you, there'ssomething not right with this
chick.
I'm like, there's I said she haslike she carried um like as the
grieving widow, like the theequity that that position held.
If she if she, in my opinion, atthe time, I'm like, there's

(12:53):
something like she she wascoming off to me like and I'm
just saying look, I'm justsaying this is what it seemed
like.
Just so everyone knows, Icompletely disavow what Rob did
not agree with this.
This is kind of the beauty ofthis show, is that he and I have
very different takes on things.
Okay.
My initial impression, this wasmy initial impression, almost

(13:20):
like she was like happy that thethe spotlight hog is out of the
way now, and she can be thestar.
That's how it came off to me.
Okay, and it just real recognizereal, right?
Aunt, I'm just saying, I know anarcissist when I see one, bro.

(13:43):
So I'm watching the the EricaKirk thing go, and I'm like, I'm
like, yeah, I don't know, man.
Like the constant fake tearswhere she's she's only dabbing
her left eye with the with thenapkin, not the right eye.
So she's only got tears out ofthis one side, and the looking
uh, I don't know, man.
The whole thing just seems sochoreographed, and the the like,

(14:05):
I don't know, that first speechhow she was just promoting TP
USA, and it was like a it waslike an acceptance speech at the
at the Grammys or something.
It was an Oscar speech orsomething.
It was weird.

SPEAKER_04 (14:16):
If I died today, tomorrow you would come on here
and use my death to promote avoting Babylon.
Yeah, yeah, but you're not myhusband or my wife.

SPEAKER_03 (14:25):
I'm just saying, I don't have to grieve you.
Um that's not you're not aspouse.
I have some duties to you.
Let's not uh I do have youwouldn't wear black for four
months.
Well, I wear black like this.
I'm rocking this.
Here's all right.
So if you pass, right?
If Rob passes, the grievingprocess is okay.

(14:47):
I start a fundraiser for hopeand the kids.
My goal is to get to a millionfor you.
That's my goal.
Like, I'm gonna try and get asclose to a million as I can so
that hope and the kids are set.
Like, that's actually what I'mgonna try and do.
I don't know how close I'll getto it, but I will go on every
freaking show promoting that.
I will go to the ends of theearth to try and get that for

(15:07):
you, right?

SPEAKER_04 (15:07):
I love how they our audience thinks us talking about
our hypothetical deaths isfunny.

SPEAKER_03 (15:12):
Yeah, well, listen, I'm telling you how this goes.
If something happens to Rob, Robpasses, right?

SPEAKER_04 (15:16):
Hold on, we do need to talk about a sponsor real
quick, actually.

SPEAKER_03 (15:24):
We'll get the requisites, we'll get the
requisite.
I got so the so Rob passes.
I I try to I try to raise moneyfor hope and the kids because I
do feel I have a duty to them,and then the hunt for a co-host
begins on day three, right afterthe funeral, right after the
requiem mass.
Day three after the funeral, orare you suggesting day two is

(15:44):
the funeral?
All right, so so look, you let'ssay the wake is all right.
So let's say you die on aTuesday.
The wake is Friday.
Let's say let's say you die on aTuesday, right?
Uh yes.
Uh we get we get the waketogether by Thursday, right?
Friday, Friday, Friday, we getthe wake together.

(16:07):
I I don't know how does thatwork with a Sunday?
Because you can't you can'tfulfill your most funerals are
on Saturdays, aren't they?
So what would you get a one-daywake for you?
Well, maybe we do Thursday,Friday, Saturday, right?

SPEAKER_04 (16:21):
What are we, humong?
We don't need a three-day wake.

SPEAKER_03 (16:25):
Two-day wake, Thursday, Friday's a wake, and
then the funeral mass isSaturday.

SPEAKER_04 (16:30):
You guys must do funerals different in New York.

SPEAKER_03 (16:33):
What do you mean?
What do you guys do?
A one showing?

SPEAKER_04 (16:37):
Yeah, like the night before, and then maybe an hour
before the funeral.

SPEAKER_03 (16:41):
Oh, we do like we do two, we do two days, and you'll
have an afternoon showing and anight showing the one day,
afternoon showing and nightshowing the second day, and then
you have the funeral mass.

SPEAKER_04 (16:51):
You're put you're putting me in an avoiding
babylon shirt for the showings,aren't you?

SPEAKER_03 (16:56):
Yes, you're wearing, you're going to wear.
Have you accepted Mary as yourpersonal lord and intercessor?
Personal personal mother andintercessor personal mother and
intercessor.
Well, I know what we can't puton that shirt now.
Oh, we can't.

SPEAKER_04 (17:13):
Well, maybe we should have you accepted Mary as
your personal co-redemptorbecause immediately I think
maybe we do need to make ashirt.

SPEAKER_03 (17:19):
So, all right, so I'm trying.
I'm trying to, yes, we actuallyshould.
Okay, I'll have you acceptedMary as your personal
co-redemptrix.
So funeral mass on Saturday,right?
Um I'm doing the fundraiserthroughout this time, and then
I'd say, so that means there'sno show on Thursday, guys.

(17:39):
So Rob passes on Tuesday.
There's no show Tuesday orThursday.
So I mean that's a grievingperiod.
You guys are missing two shows.
So the third show, the followingTuesday, the hunt begins for
your replacement.

SPEAKER_04 (17:51):
Are you gonna run it like a um America's got talent
thing?

SPEAKER_03 (17:55):
It'd be like, you know, I'll give out a golden
ticket or something.
I'll I'll do auditions.
I'll probably I'd probably likeinterview well, I'd probably
have like fill-ins for twoweeks.

SPEAKER_04 (18:05):
Like I, you know, I'd probably have like like um
uh send out invites to all thecurrent you know podcasters
inviting them on.
Make sure not to send one toTrent.

SPEAKER_03 (18:15):
And I would bring on the regulars, I'd bring on
Hitchborne, Pantile, uh JoshuaCharles, and I'd see what the
audience thought who I have todo with.
We're not scholarly enough forJoshua Charles.
That's true.
That's true, that's true.
Um, so all right, so back toThomas Massey.
Like, I think I think the wifepasses a year later, it's like

(18:40):
then you start dating, like, butyou or don't announce it on
Twitter.

SPEAKER_04 (18:47):
Okay, but then if he didn't, people would say he's
keeping it a secret.
Yeah, you're allowed to have aprivate life.
Really?
Why the hell are we talkingabout this then?

SPEAKER_03 (18:59):
Well, this is this is why you have to have a
private life, like you don'tneed to announce all this stuff
on social media.
I'm just saying, so now you knowwe yeah, on everyone, Robin.
Jonathan Piggot would be buggedfor a sweet.

(19:21):
So but the all right, so I thinkhe should have I think he should
have handled that with a littlemore decorum.
I don't know how his kidsreacted and stuff, but look, it
doesn't look right.
You you you go, you lose 45pounds, you go and pick up a
chick half your age.
I'm just saying it looks likemaybe there was foul play.

(19:42):
I'm just saying the evidencedoesn't look all right, guys.
Settle down, I'm kidding.
We gotta relax.
Everybody got really mad at mewhen I made that joke.
I don't know, guys.
It's gallows humor.
I don't know what to tell youguys.
Yes, it's a uh it's not a belljar, it's actually I don't know

(20:03):
what it is, it's just a big cup,and I have to make sure it's a
big cup, it's a big cup.
Um, so yeah, and the and theErica Kirk thing.
Um I did put a clip of EricaKirk in there that I kind of
wanted to play.
Um wait, is that the right onethough?
I wanted the one where she talksabout Charlie hearing her in

(20:26):
heaven.
I don't think that's the rightone.

SPEAKER_04 (20:31):
I don't think that's the right one.
No, that's not the right one.

SPEAKER_03 (20:34):
Well, Erica Kirk, uh, when she was interviewed by
um uh Jesse Waters, uh said thatshe tells her kids, if you ever
want to talk to daddy, just talkto daddy in heaven, and daddy
hears you.
Now, this whole like debacleafter after Charlie passed about
is Charlie Catholic, you know,Charlie wasn't Catholic.

(20:56):
They were there was Protestantsand Catholics arguing over this.
And my point was simply that fora Protestant, like they they may
say they don't believe in thecommunion of saints, they may
mock you if you have a devotionto a saint or ask a saint's
intercession.
But every one of them, if theylose the loved one, if they lost

(21:19):
a loved one, intuitivelyunderstands that that loved one
loved one is still connected toyou in some way, and that you
can still speak to them and andthey'll hear you, you know.
So, like if a if a husband loseshis spouse, I don't care what
his theology is, he will stilltalk to his wife after she's
gonna let you Thomas Maskey andyou get remarried in six months
and you got a wife half her age.

(21:42):
No, boom, all right, thoughtthat was funny.

SPEAKER_04 (21:45):
I was just gonna say, unless your wife's Italian,
that she talks to you as shehaunts you and yells at you.

SPEAKER_03 (21:50):
Yeah, um, so I think it's just uh it's almost like
like Catholicism is justintuitive, and I think that's
how church teaching evendeveloped is just that intuition
that when a soul passes on,they're not gone.
I think um even C.
S.
Lewis's like if you ever if youever know someone who lost a
loved one, C.
S.

(22:10):
Lewis's A Grief Observed is areally good book because it's
short, you could read it in onesitting, it's like a 30-minute
read.
But he talks about how like lovereaches into eternity, and he
says, if if she like because Ilove her now, like if she is not

(22:31):
now, then she never was.
Like if she doesn't exist now,because he loves her still, and
that love is an eternal thing.
This is almost why I kind of getthe argument for pets getting
going to be in in heaven,because if you love the pet,
like that love stretches intoeternity.
Now, I don't know if the petwill be in its form that it is

(22:54):
in life, but the love you hadfor your pet, some form of that
love will stretch into eternity,in my opinion.

SPEAKER_04 (23:03):
Coming from the guy who hates all pets.

SPEAKER_03 (23:06):
Yeah, yeah.
I don't I'm not gonna my I'm notmy I don't love my pets, but I
know people have this like deeplove for their like Don is I
think so in the like the agapesort of way.

SPEAKER_04 (23:19):
Can you really love something without a rational
eternal soul?
I think so.

SPEAKER_03 (23:25):
I don't know.
I'm not I'm not I'm not a petguy, but I know this.

SPEAKER_04 (23:30):
Anthony Anthony's really saying this because he
wants to see his coy in heaven.

SPEAKER_03 (23:36):
No, I know this.
Um, yeah, yeah.
Speaking of like widows andwidowers, um like we did try to
get a dog a few years back, andthe dog bit one of my kids'
friends, so we had to get rid ofthe dog.
So we gave it, we gave it away,and the guy who took it was a
widower.
His wife had passed, he was like65 years old, his wife had

(23:58):
passed, and he took the dog.
And we checked in with the guylike a year later, and the dog
was the guy's best friend.
Like the dog went everywherewith the guy, like the dog
filled a hole in this guy'slife, and they like it.
The love this guy had for thedog, like there was something
beautiful about it, even thoughI could care less about the dog

(24:19):
itself.
Like, the the the love the guyhas for the dog, I think will
stretch into eternity in someform.
I don't know if the dog itselfgoes into eternity, but that
love does last forever.
I mean, probably born the koifor a year.
There's still there's still onekoi and three goldfish left in
the pond.

(24:42):
Um, so um, all right.
Should we talk about thisdocument by the DDF?
Uh did you see the uh DianaMontagna clip?
No that I put in, throw that up.
So Diana Montagna uh put thisout.
Uh Sparks fly at today'spresentation at the Dicassi for

(25:05):
the Doctrine of the Faith, a newdocument.
Uh, on some Marian titlesregarding Mary's cooperation in
the work of salvation, as anItalian layman heatedly
denounces points made by the DDFprefect.
The second outburst, which Icaught on video, came when
Professor Granchi said it isnecessary to take a clear
distance from the idea that Marycomes to stand between God and

(25:28):
humanity as a sort of lightningrod, an idea he said Ratzinger
himself repeated repeatedlycontested.
The Italian layman specificallytold uh Delhi Vatican that he
doesn't represent any particulargroup.
Regarding the titleCo-Redemtrics, the new document
prepared during the pontificateof Pope Francis with some
modifications by Leo states thatit would be inappropriate and

(25:48):
unhelpful to use the titleCo-Redemtrics as many repeated
explanations are needed toprevent it from straying from
the correct meaning.
Alright, so play the clip of theguy.
Oh, it doesn't have thesubtitles?

(26:10):
Oh, there they are.

SPEAKER_00 (26:22):
There's something interesting, he says.

SPEAKER_03 (26:49):
Okay, all right, you can pause it.
That's all I kind of wanted toget to.
So this is kind of the this iskind of the idea that almost
like they're presenting thisthing where it's like, well,
well, God is angry, but Mary isgentle, and she'll get you in,

(27:10):
even though God is this angryguy.
And it's not, it's like there'sthere's such a lack of
understanding, and I think a lotof it comes from like people's
personal experience with theirown mothers and not
understanding certain thingsabout Our Lady.
And these are certain thingsthat I picked up.
I've talked about it on the showbefore.
Like, one was with my mom, andone was with my wife.

(27:32):
The one with my mom was when mybrother was going through some
really bad drug use, and all themen in the family wanted to cut
my brother off and like give himtough love.
And my mom just kept like we wewould have at the time thought
it was enabling, but it was itwas this position that she took

(27:54):
of showing enough mercy to himthat when he finally did reach
his lowest point, she was theone that he reached out to.
And understanding my mom'sposition there helped me see our
lady that like a mother's loveis just like just pure mercy.
Like they it's like they almostdon't have the the the they they

(28:16):
almost don't have the tough lovein them, you know.
They just have this thisdisposition towards mercy, and
that helped me see our lady'srole.
Like, even when you're in yourworst sin, you're almost too
ashamed to go to Christ with it.
You feel you feel a comfortgoing to our lady and just
begging her to bring you back toher son.
The other one was with seeing mywife react when my daughter was

(28:41):
going through something.
My daughter was dealing with abunch of kids being mean to her.
And when I saw that situation, Iwas kind of just like, All
right, you know, we'll getthrough this, we'll get through
this.
But my wife actually felt thepain of my daughter in a way
that is unexplainable.
Like my wife was distraught, notbecause my daughter was

(29:02):
distraught as much as she feltthe pain of the things these
girls said to my daughter.
And it made me see how our ladysuffered differently than
anybody else at the foot of thatcross.
Like, like a mother witnessingher child going through pain.
Because even as a father, right,if you're if your child has a

(29:22):
splinter or a stub toe, likeyou'll do you're like, I'll
literally cut my own foot offright now to spare my kid that
pain.
But a a mother will actuallyfeel that pain in a different
way than the father will.
So seeing that helped meunderstand like how our lady
actually suffered the pains ofthe cross in a different way
than anybody else could have.

(29:44):
But it also makes me see howwhen we're all distraught about
some of the things happening inthe Vatican right now, or even
our Latin mass being taken away,or seeing how the hierarchy is
flippant about certain things,like our lady is suffering.
with us when we go through thatpain and she and she's she's

(30:04):
she's our lady of sorrows for areason like she she truly like
experiences that pain with us ina way that I don't know it it
just it it helps me have adeeper devotion to her and it
helps me get through some of thecrazier things that we're
witnessing in the church rightnow yeah I just don't know why

(30:26):
the Vatican's so intent ondestroying the faith I was
raised in I'm I'm kind of gladthey uh they didn't try to
define this well yeah they wouldhave they would have they would
have butchered it but they likeon one hand they defend the
theology behind co-redemptricsand mediatrics of all graces and
then say not to say it it's likewell then just don't come up

(30:47):
with the freaking document atall you idiots yeah they would
have been better off not nothaving the document um yeah I
just but I I really do see itlike they care more about a
bunch of Protestants who willnever come to the faith than
they do about people who've beenyou know raised Catholic their
whole lives a bunch of fraudsthat's what they are the um the

(31:07):
thing is if you if you do seethe church in its passion right
now though you understand what'shappening to our lady and she's
suffering and like them it's notlike they demoted her it's just
they don't exalt her they don'tadorn her with these August if
you think about it how manyhomosexuals have some sort of

(31:30):
mother wound?
So it makes sense that all thehomosexuals in the Curia and in
the Vatican would have no ideahow to properly you know give
honor and venerate a motherbecause they have issues with
their own mothers yeah that'sdefinitely probably part of it
but it's it's also this likethey they they actually care
more i like my tweet thismorning was uh in an attempt to

(31:54):
not confuse the Protestants thehierarchy has decided to confuse
Catholics you know like likethey the there's something so
strange about it because whenthe church actually proclaims a
dogma of our lady like when theyproclaim the Immaculate
Conception they think it's goingto turn Protestants off but the
Protestants that get turned offare the ones with the hardened

(32:14):
hearts God doesn't I mean God isthe one who converts hearts not
us so you're you really shouldjust preach the truth and leave
it to God to soften someone'sheart instead of trying to
condescend to this Protestantsensibility that it won't
actually convert any Protestantsyou see the Protestants gloating
all over Twitter like and noneof them are going to be like oh
well the church said this somaybe I'll be Catholic none of

(32:36):
them they're just gloating so itmakes no sense it's just but I
see it as part of the passion ofthe church and it's of course
they're not going to adorn herwith these glorious titles and
things like that because that'snot going to happen yet.
It will happen she will be shewill be declared Mediatrix.

SPEAKER_04 (32:54):
It's just not time for that yet I think it's ironic
that you have Tuco Fernandez whoso concerned about causing
confusion with Core Redentrix isthe man who published Fiducious
supplicants and caused moreconfusion than that title ever
could it's like um like the thethe idea of scandalizing

(33:18):
Catholics doesn't cross theirminds anymore.

SPEAKER_03 (33:20):
They don't care if they scandalize Catholics they
care if they're Catholic faithis yeah um there uh they're
they're reducing the BlessedVirgin Mary to the lowest common
Protestant denominator that theywill accept they don't care if
Props become Catholic it's aboutsynodality it's uh it's kind of
like Francis when he referred toour lady as his sister in Christ

(33:42):
like it was that was like one ofthe most offensive things he
said in my opinion it's likedon't demote our lady the mother
of god to our sister in Christlike she's just you know I don't
know it's it's it's justappropriate for the times we're
in um no they don't know normalCatholics at all um but the the

(34:10):
thing is that like when thingslike this happen it should drum
up some kind of anger in you anda and a and a a desire to defend
your mother and it will increaseyour love for her.
It's like when we talked aboutthe statues like uh that that
Protestant who purposely smashedthe statue of our lady and I

(34:32):
said if somebody did that infront of me I would punch them
in the face like I know it's astatue but it's you're doing it
to disrespect my mother and thatI would punch you in the face if
if if you did that in front ofme intentionally and that would
that would be an appropriatereason yeah um and then the

(35:00):
other thing was um I kind ofbeen going through the book of
Genesis uh because we've beentalking about the theme of the
older and younger brother a lotand I'm I'm like you know what I
should really go back and rereadthese stories it's been a few
years and I I wanted to reallybe able to discuss the stories

(35:23):
from a a a deeper level thanjust saying Cain and Abel Jacob
and Esau um Joseph and hisbrothers like I wanted to really
dive back into those stories andI forgot how like especially
before the Ten Commandments comehow wild the world is you know

(35:44):
like it is it is a wild wildworld the old especially in the
book of Genesis that is beingdescribed there like it's not
just that Jacob takes Esau'sbirthright he does take his
birthright and then he gets theblessing at the end of Isaac's
life but Esau like loses it liketotally loses it and he's like I

(36:11):
am going to I'm going to killJacob like he has this venom he
wants to kill Jacob so Jacobthen his father tells him go to
your mother's brother's and tellhim you want you need a wife so
he basically goes to his uncleand marries his first cousin
right but it's it's he f he goesto his uncle falls in love with

(36:35):
Rebecca and Rebecca is theyounger sister and he tells his
uncle I'll work for you forseven years so that I can marry
Rebecca so he works for sevenyears then on the wedding night
they get Jacob drunk and theyslip the other sister in and he
he sleeps with the wrong sisterand it's just so crazy how they
describe these stories like hewas that out of it that he slept

(36:56):
with the wrong sister and didn'tknow it was the wrong sister
until the next morning and he'smad at his uncle for fooling him
and the uncle says don't worryabout it just celebrate the
wedding for the week and thenI'll give you the other daughter
and you work another seven yearsfor me.
So Jacob's now got two wivesthey're sisters he's an
indentured servant for 14 yearshe's so he's married to his

(37:19):
first cousins right so did yousee the you I told you to put
this tweet in the in the thinguh the the Catholic church gets
a lot of hate bring that tweetup Rachel I'm sorry Rachel no
Rebecca Rachel wait Rachel is itRachel or Rebecca Rebecca is

(37:46):
Jacob's mom Rachel is the wife Idon't know one of the two I
don't know uh the Catholicchurch gets a lot of hate but
let's give them credit whereit's due they banned cousin
marriage broke up the clansboosted Europe's IQ built trust
and even scrapped usury in shortthey accidentally invented
civilization accidentally solike the Protestants went nuts
over this and I actually like Istarted asking them like where

(38:08):
in the Bible does it say youcan't marry your first cousin
because actually in the Bibleit's promoting cousin marriage
and even before that uh siblingmarriage sibling marriage like
not and not just that likeAbraham goes to a town with his
wife Sarah and tells everybodyno it's just my sister don't

(38:30):
worry and let's his wife gettaken like I understand why
women have this view thatthey've been oppressed it's like
no before Christianity womenwere just like traded off for
things it's like all right we'regoing into this town just say
you're my sister so that theydon't kill me and now she's
getting passed around the townyou know and that happens not

(38:53):
just with Abraham it happenswith Jacob as well with it with
his like he does the same thing.
It's so nuts how they treatwomen in in the old testament
before Christianity thenChristianity comes and so much
of this plays into our lady likethe understanding of our lady
being the crown of creationelevates woman to a dignity that

(39:14):
is equal to man this doesn'texist before Christianity it
doesn't exist before Paul'swritings Paul putting on on the
slave masters telling them youactually can't just go and rape
your slaves like there's abodily sacrality to your slave
because of the resurrectionbecause Christ is risen from the

(39:37):
dead all of our bodies aresacred and holy and actually
marriage is a reflection of thechurch and like this theology is
extremely deep and if it wasn'tfor christianity raising the
dignity of women to the samestuff as man like this is if you

(39:57):
read the old testament youactually see how women were just
dealt with and not just that youcan see the conniving uh the
like you almost understand howthere can be trickery in in the

(40:17):
way like Jews see things becauseeven Jacob right he's dealing
with his his father in hisfather in law now and he wants
to leave and the father in lawis like no don't leave don't
leave and he's like okay wellI'll tell you what I'll stay but
you have to let me start keepingthe some of the goats and sheep
but I'll only keep the ones withspots like you can keep all the

(40:39):
pure white ones but I get theones with spots and his father
in law's like okay fair dealJacob then breeds all the ones
with spots to be like reallygood and he he lets all the
white ones just like kind ofshrivel away so he like does
this trickery to make his flockway better it's like and he

(40:59):
deals with his father in law ina very devious way it's it's
really interesting how it's likehe makes this covenant with him
and he makes a deal with him andthen he does all this shady
stuff on the side and then Godstill kind of raises Jacob up
and he like makes Jacob intoIsrael.
He's like you are now Israel andthen Israel has these 12 sons
and it's this story don't forgetthat yeah yeah in what you're

(41:24):
saying Jacob is the GentilesJacob is because he's the second
born right Esau would have beenthe story of the older brother
not getting the birthright isthe theme throughout Genesis
throughout the entire book andit's it's it goes from Cain and
Abel it goes to Isaac andIshmael like Ishmael is the

(41:46):
firstborn and it goes to Isaacinstead right and then and then
Isaac born illegitimately wellright because it was the
concubine's child but it's stillthe firstborn and it goes to
Isaac the secondborn then Isaacum has Jacob and Esau and Esau's
firstborn Isaac uh Jacob isholding onto his heel as he's

(42:09):
coming out but the blessing thatthat Isaac gives him is like
you're you will rule over yourbrother and your brother will
hate you so but there's thisbeautiful reunification of Jacob
and Esau so after after Jacobspends all this time with his
father in law he finally doesleave and goes back to the land

(42:31):
of his fathers and when he goeshe sends an emissary to go meet
Esau and he's like Tell my lordI have gifts for him and just
like he's just praying hisbrother doesn't want to kill him
and then when he sees hisbrother Esau rejoices that he's
back and they have thisbeautiful reunification so like
there is something veryimportant about that
reunification at the end and thesame thing happens with Jacob's

(42:53):
kids who Jacob becomes Israeland then he has 12 sons and the
youngest is Joseph and Joseph isit's Rebecca it's not it's not
Rachel Rachel is Rachel is Isaacand I'm I'm sorry Rachel is
Isaac's wife Jacob marriesRebecca and her sister but
Rebecca is barren for her forlike most of their life and he

(43:17):
has Jacob winds up having kidswith the sister and then two
concubines and then he has onekid with with Rebecca.
So Rachel is the wife of JacobRachel's Jacob's wife so who's
Rebecca Rebecca's Isaac's wifeyeah I just read it today too

(43:38):
this is crazy yes uh yes Rebeccais Isaac's wife Isaac's wife I'm
getting Rebecca and Rachel mixedup I'm Catholic guys I'm not
even supposed to know my Biblewhat do you want from me I'm not
supposed to be reading my BibleI'm gonna get in trouble for
this so all right so so Rachelhas one kid and that's Joseph

(44:01):
and because it's Rachel's onlykid Jacob loves him the most the
brothers are so jealous thefather makes him this beautiful
coat that's Joseph in theamazing technicolor dream coat
on Broadway if you guys rememberbut the brothers are so jealous
of Joseph that they go and theysell Joseph to the Ishmaelites

(44:23):
like to the descendants ofIshmael he ends up getting sold
to Potiphar and then he winds upbecoming like the prince of
Egypt there's a famine in Egyptthe brothers come back and
there's this beautiful reunionbut it's Judah the brother Judah
who sells him to the Ishmaelitesfor 20 pieces of silver which if

(44:44):
you add inflation by the timechrist comes it's 30 pieces of
silver that Judas sells them ifyou add inflation till now it's
seven thousand dollars seventhousand dollars for per post on
X but it is it it is this themethroughout the entire book and
it's like you will heareverybody talk about no no no

(45:04):
there's going to be thisbeautiful conversion of the Jews
at the end there is thereabsolutely is but we're not at
that time yet we're at the timewhere Esau wants to kill his
brother we're at the time whereCain kills able we're at the
time in the story where hisbrothers sell him into slavery.
Like that's just the point inthe story we're at but we will
come to a point in the storywhere there's going to be a a

(45:27):
unif a reunification of thebrothers and I'm I'm gonna I'm
going to go through the entireold testament I'm just I just
got through the book of Genesisin like three days it took me so
it's uh it's just that we'reconstantly talking about this
theme and it's one that if ifyou if you're not looking for it

(45:47):
you don't see it but then onceyou see it it's the entire theme
of how the birthright's supposedto go to the firstborn and it's
and it's Christ and Adam toolike Christ is the new Adam
because Adam was supposed to bein the garden and and live a
life in the presence of God butChrist has to come and he's the
and he's the second I mean he'sreally the only begotten son but

(46:10):
it's still he's the new Adam.
Right and it's that themethroughout the entire thing and
then it gets same thing with Eveand the new Eve.

SPEAKER_01 (46:20):
Yeah so it's I don't know it's an important theme
that runs throughout the oldtestament so and I and I don't I
don't remember how it plays outafter you get out of Genesis but
I'm gonna get through all thatwell um Aaron and Moses are
brothers right and Aaron's theolder brother and yet yeah

(46:41):
Aaron's the older brother butGod talks to Moses God talks to
Moses he does make Aaron apriest but he also gives Ishmael
a blessing like that there andMoses and Aaron are separated
and then they do get thisunification when Moses comes
back so that's in the Exodus umthen you have Deuteronomy is

(47:04):
kind of like a recap right yeahthen Joshua right so uh Moses
doesn't get to go into thepromised land but Joshua does
and Joshua is yeshua like Jesusis Joshua that's the same name
so Joshua takes okay bright andgray I mean it is though like I
know the name Joshua is Jesusright I know yes I am talking

(47:30):
about what is happening now likethis is this is why this this
topic is um on everybody likethis is why this topic is
actually kind of important umand it's why everything
everything in the news is aboutlook we're gonna have to play it
I wasn't going to we're gonnahave to play it all right go

(47:53):
with uh Tucker on Ben I don'tknow what you should let me go
solo tonight it would have beena good solo show you didn't want
to be here you gotta be kiddingme it's not right oh I'm just
tired I know I know but thistopic is important so let's
let's let's do uh we got TuckerCarlson and Dave Smith and

(48:14):
there's a couple things fromthis that I thought were
interesting I did just make theChewbacca noise but not as good
as Stephen Garon from CatholicComedy makes the chew cale wants
to talk about this kale i i wantto talk about this with kale so
kale kale kale sees this from adifferent point of view than us
right um kale actually hasjewish ancestry i i want to do

(48:40):
another show with um with gideonalso because i think this topic
is actually very important ohcan we just have a week without
talking about the jews not whenit's in the news constantly i
mean it's in the news it's onyour twitter feed that's a
little different than the news imean obviously this this part
it's in the news rob it's like iunderstand there is a there is a

(49:02):
war in the republican partyright now over this good tear
down destroy it screw them justuh okay Jews in the news um yeah
no all right let's go with thistalented people uh but then is
like very afraid that's and Ithink a lot of people a lot of

(49:23):
the neocons and neocon adjacentpeople believe this stuff like
they believe that there's like aa fourth Reich on the I know
because I know a lot of them andthey text me and like I can't be
no Alex Baronson who's like avery fragile person but like a
good nice guy and very smart andI've like promoted Baronson for
oh my gosh.
Me too for for real you knowbecause I I I really agree I

(49:47):
thought he was brave but at thesame time like a very fearful
person very fearful and I know alot of people like this uh who I
really like and have alwaysreally liked and they're texting
me like I can't believe you're aNazi like I'm gonna have to flee
the United States and Ben islike this Ben fears that he's
gonna get hurt.
It's like I look at this and I'mlike I don't think I think Ben's
fine no it's like who's morelikely to get hurt me or Ben you

(50:09):
know it's like not even reallyclose but but that doesn't
matter he and then I want to goa lot of these I want to play
all three clips in a row becauseall three of these are very
relevant.

SPEAKER_03 (50:18):
You don't want to talk about it I I will after the
Mark Levin clip and then andthen and then we'll play the
last one because this is this isvery much with the the things
that we talked about withMaudsley and the reason that
that the Holocaust narrative asthis mythbearing load is

(50:41):
actually like you think it's youthink it's what they've done to
us with that narrative but whatthey've done to Jews with that
narrative like by by tellingthat story to them and making
them think that if anybody talksabout this topic there's going
to be another holocaust like youyou see this this is the

(51:01):
reaction to Tucker even talkingto Nick Puentes like that's what
this is about is them thinkingthat anybody that says anything
it's gonna was another holocaustthat's been done with every
pogrom you know the Jews havetalked about forever right I

(51:22):
mean like you know even I meanduring the time of of of the
Bible you have them talking youknow all they talk about is the
last time they were wronged bythe Babylonians or by you know
the uh by um the the Seleucidsthen Rome and then Rome again
and then the Holocaust is justthe most recent one but it's the

(51:45):
one we're dealing with it's theone we're dealing with now yes
very true okay so you want thewhich one do you want?

SPEAKER_01 (51:54):
Just go to the Mark Liban one stranglehold on the
party that is the goal but Ijust want to say again as they
say these radical really kind ofcrazy things they convince

(52:14):
themselves and they becomedangerous.
I'm just saying that and andalso tormented really like
really unhappy like imagine Imean I talked to you know Mark
Levin I talked to him rightafter Charlie was killed I
called Mark Levin and I calledBen and I said I don't want to
fight at all with you I'mactually not obsessed with
Israel.

(52:34):
You clearly are but I do thinkwe agree on a lot of things and
like let's not fight I calledthem both and I said that and
they were both nice to me aboutit very nice and then Amelia
started attacking me againwhatever they can't help
themselves but but Levin did saysomething amazing to me.
He's like everyone hates Jewsthey're Jew haters everywhere
and I'm fighting the Jew hatersand it's like I mean I guess if

(52:55):
you spend your life on Twitteryou run into a lot of Jew haters
but in in real life America likeno that's not actually most
people are really nice and thereis no Nazi movement building in
America.
That's just fake and if but hebut I really think Levin
believes that and I think he hadone of these like kind of crazy
childhoods with like a screechymother who just scared the shit

(53:16):
out of every day of hischildhood or something like
that.
I mean clearly this guy's had alot of like trauma in his
personal life but it almostdoesn't matter the cause he
really believes he said it to meon the phone Shapiro too and a
lot of other good people who arenot necessarily crazy are
convinced that the Fourth Reichis rising.
And that's bad for them aspeople because it torments them

(53:36):
and makes them unhappy andalienates their wives and
deforms their children rightit's all bad but it's also bad
for America because panickedhysterical people are capable of
doing you know things theywouldn't do if they weren't
panicked and hysterical so we wedo need to like convince
everybody the fourth Reich isnot rising settle down I'm not a
Nazi I hate the Nazis let metell you how I hate the Nazis

(53:59):
and why that's what I wanted totalk about.

SPEAKER_03 (54:01):
Like if if this conversation continues and they
really do perceive like this isgetting more dangerous like I
worry about what their reactionis if they can't if they're not
successful in their canceling ofTucker and their canceling of

(54:24):
Fuentes like I worry what thenext step is they will do
something that causes uh thatbrings about yeah the it's a
self-fulfilling prophecy is whatit would end up being I think
that yeah I think you're right Ithink it's a self-fulfilling
prophecy like I think things getworse and it's it's kind of

(54:49):
strange because like Kale wastalking about this today like
the like the strisand effect ofof telling people don't watch
Nick is what's making people goand watch Nick in and I don't
watch Tucker is making people gowatch sucker like this five
million plus views on thatTucker Nick interview 17 17

(55:10):
million yeah on not just theYouTube one on all platforms
maybe right I think on Twitter17 million on Twitter there's
like over five million onYouTube right because all of all
of Shapiro's fans were sayinghow Shapiro got to 24 million
faster than they got to 17million or yeah I don't trust

(55:31):
Twitter's views though like itthat's like somebody just like
stops on the like it doesn'tmean people actually watched it
like what whereas YouTube peoplefive million views on YouTube
means like there were fivemillion views on YouTube.
I I think they in a way they andI not using they in the nebulous
sort of conspiratorial sense I'msaying people like uh Levin and

(55:53):
Shapiro and such um they theywant the the threat of Fuentes
et al to grow so that they canjustify for their action so that
their hatred is justifiedbecause if if Fuentes is really
canceled right and no one'slistening to him well then who

(56:15):
cares about what Levin andShapiro are saying you know
Levin and Shapiro need theirthey need there to be a thread
it's interesting because beforeOctober 7th like people weren't
really talking about this likeOctober 7th is what brought this
all out in the mainstreamconversation like the but the

(56:40):
the way this is all going downit's like they're so used to
being able to say somebody'santi-Semitic and then get like a
few people to endorse that ideaand then that person just gets
shunned and there's no way tolike somebody somebody said I
forgot who but they were likethere used to be a time like

(57:02):
even with Pat Buchanan like theyaccused Pat Buchanan of being an
anti-Semite and he was just likeput out of the conversation
Tucker added to that right umBen Shapiro put a tweet out
talking about rant Ron Paul andhe was like you're gripping that
pen as you would the neck of aJew like Ron Paul like what are

(57:25):
you even talking about like likewhat this is but because they
did that like now when they sayit about Nick it it has no sting
right like there's just nothere's no sting to it because
they use that freaking card somuch so much and now now when
people are actually talking likethey they used it when it wasn't

(57:48):
necessary and by constantlythrowing that refrain out over
and over now people don't reallycare about the refrain so much
and there's no way to cancelpeople out of these
conversations anymore there'salways going to be some platform
where we're able to have theseconversations and people will
follow a person they enjoy towhatever platform they're going
on so there's no way to actuallyshut that conversation down

(58:10):
anymore.
So I do see vitriol andanimosity building against these
two things especially when youwhen you force people to kind of
um self-select and move right tothese these separate smaller
platforms you are you're causingthem to be in an echo chamber so

(58:33):
you are causing them to becomemore extreme you know so either
they they really don't see thatand are um just stupid and you
know are and or they're doing itpurposefully you know once again
to drive more extremism I don'tknow I don't know where this

(58:55):
goes man I just I think I look Ithink all of this just gets more
and more amplified what do youthink happens in the Republican
Party with this like I I don't Ithink there is a major split in
the Republican Party at thispoint.
I don't know what happens likedo I have no faith that we will

(59:16):
actually ever get an Americafirst party that actually takes
care of this stuff I don't seethat happening so I don't know I
don't know where this goes fromhere.
I mean Kale can't join ustonight but I really do want to
have this conversation with Kalebecause I I spoke with Kale
yesterday on the phone and umlike he made the point uh I

(59:39):
texted to you this morning RobKale was like okay I watched an
episode of Nick and when Rob andI talk you'll hear me go you'll
I'll say like a lot I'll say youknow I'll pause for a second to
think Nick will do a three hourstream of consciousness without
a pause word and just flow andnot Think about what he's

(01:00:01):
saying.
He'll just come, he'll go onthis rant for three hours
straight and just nonstop, havepoint after point, hammering
down, hammering down.
The kid is unbelievablytalented.
Like it's it's abnormal howtalented he is when he has
points to make.
Um, so like even now, like I'mpausing to think about what I'm

(01:00:22):
going to say next.
Like he'll just he'll just flowon a topic.
So it's but he's also got thethe problem of all the times
he's done those three-hourstreams of consciousness where
he'll just he'll be trying tomake jokes and he'll say stuff,
and then they're going back andclipping these crazy things that
he said, which I mean, I havethat gallows sense of humor.

(01:00:45):
I have a very like I like ironyin humor.
Like, I think the cookie segmentwas kind of funny, you know.
Like, I'm not, I'm not shockedby it.
The thing that the only thingNick has said that kind of was I
was like, that was just stupid,was when he said he liked
Stalin.
Because Stalin was soreprehensible, like what he did

(01:01:07):
to Catholics.
If you ever go back and listento Daryl Cooper's anti-humans
episode, he talks about whatStalin did to the Catholics in
Russia to okay.
So these these priests wouldstill have hope, even in this
desolate situation where theywould have hope in Christ,
right?
So they were trying to make thething those Catholics were using

(01:01:30):
for their hope and make themdespise it.
So they would make priestsconsecrate feces and eat it,
they would make them have theseorgies and dress one of the
people up as the blessed mother.
The thing that they looked tofor their hope wound up became
becoming the the point of theirtorture.

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:49):
I mean, not to not to defend Joseph Stalin here.
A lot of that was done prior toStalin, um more in the the the
Lenin era by before Stalin comesto power.
Yeah, I mean, so I mean Stalinwas no Christian, you know.
That that's that's obvious.

(01:02:10):
He was he was an Orthodoxseminarian for a while actually
growing up, but um that was morethat was more the the the
Trotsky sort of yeah, yeah, thatwasn't so much Stalin, but um
yeah, I I think peoplemisunderstand what Nick was

(01:02:30):
saying about the whole Stalinthing, not once again, not to
defend Stalin or even well thatI'm glad we're talking about
this because I don't know I Ionly know what I know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:39):
So you're like if you're like if you're give a
different perspective on it anddefend it, I'd want you to.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:45):
For those of you who listen to to Nick on Tucker,
which is really the only longerthan five-minute clip I've ever
seen of the guy, right?
He talks about how his goal wasto um to eventually you know
take over the the conservativeinstitutions, right?
That he saw as being socorrupted.

(01:03:06):
Um and if you look at at Stalin,you have you know, with the
Russian Revolution, you haveLenin, uh, and Lenin's right
hand right hand man, Trotsky.
Stalin was kind of there in themix.
You know, they were really thetop three.
But Lenin and Trotsky bothwanted a much more international
communist movement.

(01:03:26):
They wanted Russia, it was thefirst step in a worldwide you
know revolution of theproletariat against the bur, you
know, bourgeois bourgeoisie.
Um they didn't want communism tobe Russian, it was just the
first step.
And Trotsky especially saw aworldwide revolution.

(01:03:47):
Stalin saw the opposite.
He wanted to use communism tostrengthen Russia and the Soviet
Union in a not necessarily in anationalistic sort of way, at
least not initially, butespecially after World War II
started.
You know, he's they he sawnationalism, Russian

(01:04:07):
nationalism, as the what onlyway to combat you know Germany.
So obviously he was stillcommunist, he wasn't, you know,
he the planned economy, all ofthat sort of stuff.
But he instead of he startedusing power to to build these
national institutions up, and hewas incredibly effective at it.

(01:04:28):
I mean, you know, Russia Rob isawake.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:30):
You bring up Russian history and Rob Parks right up
to the body.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:33):
I do prior to the Russian Revolution, Russia was
largely backwards.
I mean, they serfdom had justbeen abolished shortly before,
and serfdom was not the same waylike medieval feudalism was in
Western Europe, it was wayharsher.
Um, Russia had very fewrailroads, they really had no

(01:04:53):
industrial centers, it was anagrarian peasant society prior
to the Russian Revolution, andit didn't change much until from
then until Stalin.
Stalin turned Russia into anindustrial powerhouse through
very destructive um five-yearplans.
Don't get me wrong, they killedmillions of people, you know,

(01:05:14):
many people starved, so on andso forth.
But it was effective and itcreated a nation that could hold
their own against Germany.
Um Nick sees all thateffectiveness, and that's what
he says he um he admires.
Stalin's will to power, youknow, Stalin's will to do what
he needs to do, not that headmires the you know his

(01:05:39):
communist politics or hisanti-Christian, you know,
worldview or anything like that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:45):
So somebody said um something about Hitler.
I wanna I wanna find it.
Uh the heck did it go?
Uh shoot.
He said something like like wewere we were just saying Stalin

(01:06:07):
was bad, what about Hitler orsomething like that?
And it's like the thing is ifyou just go through the um the
Darryl Cooper um World World WarII preamble, like when you're
going through the preamble wherehe just kind of lays out what
he's going to talk about, and hestarts going through what the

(01:06:30):
Jewish propaganda was beforeWorld War II started.
And that they were writing innewspapers that they were going
to use eugenics to wipe out theGerman population, right?
They were going to um give everyman a vasectomy and tie every
woman's tubes, and they weregoing to do it in a bloodless

(01:06:51):
manner, but they were going tothey the after World War I they
felt that Germans had to go.
And now they printed this inlike the New York Times, and
Goebbels basically grabs it anduses it as propaganda saying,
look, your lives are on theline, like they are trying to
wipe Germany out.
Like, there's there's a lot thatgoes into that story that we're

(01:07:12):
not even allowed to discuss ortalk about.
It's just uh it's one of thosemyth-bearing stories where
you're not allowed to questionany of it.
So when you start learning thehistory of it, and that if you
try to see it from where theGerman's point of view was, you
just look like a bad guy, likeyou just look like you're evil

(01:07:34):
and you're an anti-Semite.
But no, if you if you actuallygo into any war or any like
every every war that starts, thepeople who are fighting think
they are the good guy in thatwar.
So, you know, we have this ideathat America, the you know, the
you were we it was the axis ofevil and and the allies
fighting, like there was no goodand bad guys like that when you

(01:07:57):
really start seeing Versailles.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:59):
It was um it was America and Great Britain that
created really all the bad guysof World War II.
You have the the the unequal andunfair peace treaty of
Versailles that that takesGermany, which was you know the
the most industrialized umnation in Europe and basically

(01:08:24):
you know kicks it to the girtdirt and stomps on it for for
years under the the ineffectiveWeimar Republic.
You know, we you gottaunderstand America and Great
Britain were literally umstarving Germany throughout the
peace process, right?
When they when they signed thearmistice on November 11th,
1918, the British warshipsdidn't leave the coast of

(01:08:46):
Germany.
No, they stayed there and not anot an ounce of food got in that
country while we were coming upwith the the Treaty of
Versailles.
I mean, how screwed up is that?
How many thousands and thousandsof children starved to death
while we were making Germanysign uh you know more or less an
unconditional surrender for awar that was started by well

(01:09:09):
really by by Serbia in Russia?
So I mean we we created theconditions you know of that
caused an entire people to tohate themselves, to to feel
wronged, which you know led toNazi Germany at the same time,
you know, the we left Russia offto hang during World War I, and

(01:09:34):
then to the point where Germanycan send Lenin over to cause the
Russian Revolution, and we don'tprovide nearly enough assistance
to help them fight thecommunists throughout the
Russian Civil War.
So there we go ahead and createthe you know the Soviet Union.
I mean, we were literallycreated the the two the you know
the two big enemies of the 20thcentury, yeah, Nazi Germany and

(01:09:55):
Soviet Russia.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:57):
Yeah, and then when you also understand how, like in
in in a modern context, to tosee how Israel has an
ethno-state, they understand theimportance of identity and
having an identitarian state,and they understand the point of

(01:10:20):
nationalism, but we're notallowed to have that.
And the reason we're not allowedto have that is because when
Germany started seeing liketaking pride in their nation and
seeing themselves as an as a asa people and going, okay, we
have to try to figure out how tofix something because after
World War I, after that Treatyof Versailles, they're
destitute, their currency iscomplete garbage.

(01:10:42):
They're and Hitler comes in andhe's like, We need to take pride
in ourselves.
We're Germans, and we need tostart rooting out the usury, and
we have to get rid of thepornography, and we have that.
He starts getting these peopleto look at their own nation and
want to fix it.
It's it's the scariest thing tothe older brother.

(01:11:03):
Because if like if you're if youhave an ethno state and you take
pride in your state, then you aslong as we're all fighting with
each other, like so much of themodern politics, the stupid
stuff with the woke stuff andthe trans stuff, is to keep us
all at war with one another sowe don't see the things that are
actually causing the crisis inthis country.

(01:11:23):
And the thing is, at thismoment, what you're starting to
get is people talking about theactual crisis in this country
and the roots of it and theproblems of it.
And that freaks them out becauseif you really start looking at
where the like me and Rob weretalking about the other day with
the way that this country spendsmoney, we're we're barely able
to pay the interest on thenational debt right now.

(01:11:46):
Like the interest on thenational debt is bigger than our
budget.
We went up like a trilliondollars in three weeks or
something.
Like it's just it's climbing atsuch an astronomical rate at
this point that our money isgoing to be worthless soon.
And once you get to the pointwhere your money's worthless,
like that that's what when oncepeople start starving, that's

(01:12:08):
why the EBT thing was such adangerous thing.
Because once people stop gettingfood, like that's when violence
starts occurring.
As long as we're all fightingabout these stupid issues and
we're fighting over abortion andwe're fighting over men and
women's sports, you're notlooking at the grand picture of
what is happening in ourcountry.
And what's happening in ourcountry is the next generation

(01:12:29):
cannot afford housing, nobodycan get a job to sustain to
sustain a family anymore.
We're like the country isfalling apart financially, more
like we're completelydemoralized.
You don't don't know who yourneighbor is anymore.
It it's all coming apart at theseams right now.
And these people actuallytalking about these issues is

(01:12:49):
scaring the hell out of thosepeople because those people have
a lot to do with the way modernsociety is formed.
So that's why that's why this isall getting so contentious, and
I'm worried about where it goes.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:04):
Because I mean, while obviously uh being proud
of your your nation, yourcountry, and and wanting it to
succeed and and putting itbefore others is all right and
good.
Like um, you know, the the thedown the big downside of of the

(01:13:25):
Nazi movement, you know, evenprior to World War II even
starting, was was their almostum idolization uh of the nation,
of the state.
You know, that's what um that'swhat the Pope came out against
in um mit Brennender's sword wasyou know the the idolization of

(01:13:47):
the of the nation and state, youknow, to a to a place that puts
it over what you know naturewould put it.
So I mean they're definitelydefinitely can go too too far,
and that's what is going tohappen.
Um I I fear if if people likelike Ben and Levin continue to

(01:14:08):
push what they're pushing,they're gonna get what they
fear.

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:12):
Yeah, it's a it is a concern, man.
Like that that this this wholeRepublican and Jewish coalition
they came out with the other dayis is worrisome.
Just because of the rhetoricthey're saying, like it's just
they're they're making this10,000 times worse.
They're just making it 10,000times worse.

(01:14:33):
They'd be better off justignoring it and just going on
about like they're making thisthing so much worse.
Just let people let people talkabout stuff and stop freaking
out about it.
That is what's making it socrazy.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:47):
And every time they they they bring it up, they lose
another not small percentage ofGen Z men.

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:56):
Yeah, I more than just Gen Z men, I think a lot of
people are still like because II was talking to I was talking
to guys at work about this.
I'm like, I'm like, what likewhat are your impressions?
Like, I don't I just guys thatwould never have thought about
this, guys that were basicallyneocons up until the past year
or so, like they're all startingto look at this whole situation

(01:15:16):
differently, and it's becausesomething that was in some kind
of like a niche corner of theinternet is now in the
mainstream conversation becauseeverybody's freaking out about a
conversation talk like thatconversation talk I had with
Nick would have just been ablip, like it wouldn't have been
that big of a deal if thereaction to it wasn't the
conversation itself was I'm notgonna say boring because I I
like I said it was the reallythe only time I've ever watched

(01:15:38):
more than five minutes of ofNick, so it was interesting to
me in that sense, but um whatthey actually talked about was
rather boring, was you know itwas it was a nothing burger.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:48):
Did you see Theo from Two Two Cities critique of
it?
I saw him, yeah, but I I don'trecall what it was.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:57):
He he was like, Everybody's making such a big
deal out of this.
Nick blew a great opportunity totalk about the synagogue and all
this stuff, and I'm like, thatthat just wasn't going to
happen.
Like, that's not I I don't itjust wasn't going to happen, but
what it did was it got people togo and look at Nick's other
stuff, and then you go look atsome of Nick's other stuff, and
Nick gets into like he wasn'tgonna do that on Tucker's show,

(01:16:19):
but it's all right.
We're gonna jump over to locals.
We'll uh we'll talk about somestuff over there.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:26):
What what can we talk about on locals?
Yeah, I got some stuff.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:29):
Don't worry, we always got stuff we can talk
about on locals.
Okay, we'll do we'll do a shortlocal show.
Um let me think.
Do we have anything for locals?
We got something.
We always got something.
I don't know, you want to callit a rap?
We can rap it.
Oh, I know what I want to talkabout.
Abby Johnson.

(01:16:50):
I want to talk about AbbyJohnson.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:52):
We could also talk about what Lila said about uh
Lila and Abby Johnson.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:57):
The two of them.
I I definitely want to talkabout that because we'll do it
over there.
We'll do it over there because Idon't I don't want to I don't
want to start a war witheverybody yet, but yet yet it's
gonna come to it.
Who's everybody?

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:17):
Well the thing is um because you know me, I'm always
up for a good war with everyone.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:26):
Should we do it here?
You want to just do it here?
You want to do it here whenwe'll skip locals tonight?
We can do it here.

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:33):
No, the locals people always get pissed when we
do that.
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:36):
All right, let's do locals because I got a lot to
say on it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:38):
Just hold on.
I'm trying to log into my I'mtrying to log into locals.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:43):
Give me a minute.
Everybody saying do it here.
Go get a local subscribe.
How do you guys like this showand you don't support us there?

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:51):
Honestly, honestly, your inability to pay five bucks
to support us is a little youknow what.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:58):
Just come to locals, guys.
It's like, come on.
I don't get it.
You guys like our show.
We're probably like the the thelast show standing out here.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:10):
Yeah, we're we're saving you 10 by 10 bucks a
month by staying independent.
It's true.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:16):
It would have cost you guys 10 bucks a month for
us.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:19):
No, 15.
Oh, there's no there's no eightdollar there is, but it doesn't
include everything they said itdid.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:28):
Oh, I didn't know that.
For the price of a cup ofcoffee, you can support a
podcast.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:37):
Okay, I I did throw the link now in in the live
chat.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:43):
Just just guys, it's five bucks a month.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:45):
Oh, by the way, we forgot to talk about our
sponsor.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:48):
Oh, we could do that now before we cut out.
Uh, we're the worst.
Uh the okay, so the Christ theKing sale is over, right?

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:55):
The Christ the King sale is over, yes.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:59):
But if you go to RecucentSellars.com, uh they
still have 10% off.
So you don't get the 20% off.
You guys missed out on that, butyou still get 10% off.
Recucin Sellers is an amazing umwhat it's not a not just a
winery.
What do what do they call it?

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:15):
A uh it's a wine, it's a well, it's a winery and
family farm.

SPEAKER_03 (01:19:20):
I know, but what do you like when you're going out
not just to the wine?
Vineyard, there you go.
It's a vineyard.
I don't know why I couldn'tthink of that.
I'm tired, guys.
Uh, yes, they are a uh a winery,vineyard, family farm, but
they're an amazing Catholicfamily that supports us.
They let us talk about the mostcontroversial things and they
still love us.

(01:19:40):
Um, we are, I don't know ifthey're gonna stay with us
throughout the whole year, butwe have some other sponsorships
coming.
You know what else we got?
Cameron O'Hearn on Thursday.
I'm telling you guys, do notmiss that show because we are
going to make it very, veryuncomfortable for Cameron.
He has no idea, but we're goingto put his feet to the fire and
ask him why we were not inepisode three.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:02):
You know, apart from the reason of only having 1200
subscribers at that point.

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:07):
And Molly says get the Fuji apples from Recky Sin
Sellers.
So they yeah, they have wine,they ship to most states, but
they also have fruit.
Go check them out.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:17):
He might not have known, but he knows now.

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:19):
No, he's not gonna know.
He don't watch our show.
He don't watch us, he don'twatch our show.
He's gonna be totally surprised.
We're gonna hold his feet to thefire.
We want to know why we weren'ton episode three and why they
keep stealing all our showideas.
It's gonna be a fun show.
So definitely check us outThursday.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:35):
And if you guys are not I just want to know why
produce why well that producerJake.
Not not producer Jake, JoeMcClain's producer, Jake, but
producer Jake from Mass of theAges, why he doesn't watch us
anymore.
That's a good question.

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:49):
Is he still with Mass of the Ages?
Did he die?
I don't know.
But I want to talk about AbbyJohnson.
So if you guys want to if youguys want to hear us talk about
Abby Johnson, come come come uhcome check us out.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:00):
Okay, I'm gonna start cutting these here.
So goodbye, everyone.

SPEAKER_03 (01:21:11):
I wish they had a better way of doing this.
Yeah, you should be able to cutthem all at once.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:16):
Or something, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:21:18):
I mean, you usually put an out.