Memories of the Revolution

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Sancte, sancte, amare morti decadas nos.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
We were late because we were scrambling to find an
opening video.
Guys and we could not find anopening video.
I cannot believe how difficultit is to do several shows in a
day.
The amount of content anthonyput out of this was his
full-time job is with.
Oh I, I don't even are you areyou are you tuckered out

(00:54):
anything?
I I started I was.
My first show was with, uh, joemclean at 7 30 this morning.
That was fun and he does.
He does radio for his firsthour and then his second hour is
just kind of like this, whereyou just free ball and you know,
just shooting the crap.
But the the the radio portionwas interesting because you will

(01:14):
be talking and then you hearthe music kick on because they
have to go to commercial break.
So you have to kind of wrap itquick enough so that joe has
time to wrap it before thecommercial break.
So it was.
It was a little distracting,like you're in the middle of a
sentence, you hear the music andyou got to stop talking so that
joe has time to wrap it beforethe commercial break.
So it was.
It was a little distracting,like you're in the middle of a
sentence, you hear the music andyou gotta stop talking so that
joe can wrap it imagine thatanthony finds stopping talking
to be difficult.
yeah well, you know it was a, itwas a fun day, and then and

(01:37):
then trying to um, not repeatthe same things over and over,
because you know there are somepeople that I mean maniacs, like
uh grover, watched every singleshow I did today, so it's hard
to not repeat the same thing.
So, right right off the bat,his first comment was how do you
think he's going to use the godwriting straight with crooked
lines again?
But it's, I mean, I don't knowyou got to get it to the same

(02:01):
points over and over, over andover again.
God bless you.
But, kale, yesterday I watchedyour video you did with Paul Van
.
Oh, you know what, rob, let'sdo the Recusant ad, because I'll
forget that and I didn't do asingle one today.
You didn't do a single one today, not a single Recusant ad.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Well, this one's up to you.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Well, at least give me.
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(02:44):
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Speaker 1 (03:07):
They send it like they send it wherever in the
states, or yeah, cool there's.
There's five states they can'tsend it to, one being utah.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
I forget what other states there are mormons it's
the mormons ah yeah, I'mterrible at ad reads.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Probably can't even sell coffee there, so you know
what are you gonna do um so youfelt they do sell magical
underwear, though hey, hey, andin utah, I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
Um so, keep rolling, keep rolling I don't even know
what you guys are talking about.
I'm so tired, guys forgive me.
Um, so I saw your stream withpaul vanderclay yesterday and
you guys were getting into someinteresting stuff, like you were
.
You were talking about thecouncil in a way where you were
saying, even, even people in ourday, we're basically formed in

(03:58):
our like, our formative yearsare like from what, 16 to 25 or
something like that, and youkind of go through your whole
life with that worldview.
It's.
It's interesting.
You said those ages.
It's similar with music, right?
You, you discover music betweenthe ages of 16 to 25 and then
for the rest of your life that'sthe music you listen to.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Like you kind of stop discovering new music so the
guys, you have the worst tasteof music I've ever met and I'm a
little bit older than you.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
I don't have to tell you you don't want to know
what's going on.
When I was that age, so I wasraised like as a wigger on long
island.
Bro, it's terrible, what's up?
Uh, the virgin.
Anthony abadi I'm so tired thechat.
Anthony stein oh, boy for a.
Yeah, anthony stein's got aninsane schedule, though.
He goes to sleep at like 6 pmthough also.

(04:45):
So, yeah, like.
So the guys that go into thecouncil, I guess, are formed
during those years and they goin, and then the guys who put
the council into action, likethose guys, are still the guys
we're dealing with today.
Right, we're coming to theclose of it.
And then you were.

(05:06):
The main thing you were talkingabout was how, like, john Paul
II and Benedict kind of came into try to solidify this
worldview of the council.
But that really, francis, wasthe guy they were hoping for
after the council.
Well, insofar as you know, youknow the weird sort of way, I
think Francis sort of hascouncil envy, right, because he

(05:28):
doesn't, he's not really part ofit, both as a South American.
Also, he's a little bit youngerthan they are.
And so you know, john Paul IIof Benedict XVI, I mean, that
was that was their, that wastheir Woodstock, right, I mean
you kind of have to think of itthat way that it's always that
time and you know, andsignificantly of course I think

(05:50):
that you know like I spent a lotof today, I wasn't planning on
doing this, but just sort ofsticking up for JP2 and B16.
And look, anthony, you and Ihave talked a lot about this.
You know I certainly wentthrough my period of hero
worship with those guys and Icertainly have sort of sobered
up on some level about therealities of their pontificates

(06:13):
and even the realities of kindof what they were trying to do.
But I think it's important toremember, you know, that both of
those guys were young boys inthe middle of the chaos of World
War II.
Yeah, and that is you know.
You know both in theirrespective way.
You know Benedict, you knowRatzinger is a German and you

(06:33):
know what he is, is Pole, andyou know he grows up I want to
say he was like nine or 10 whenthe Nazis roll into Krakow, and
you know.
And so as soon as they're donewith the Nazis, then they've got
the Soviets, and so I thinkthat that's an underrated aspect
of what they were trying to do,more so than just like a

(06:57):
theological question?
I was really.
I didn't.
I never knew this, but you saidJP2 had to get permission from
the communists to even attendthe council.
Yeah, right, so, so you know,this is an important point.
You know, I was realizing todaytoo that I think for a lot of
people, you know, let's say Idon't know, maybe.
Well, let me ask you, boys,this like when, how old were you

(07:21):
when the Berlin wall fell?
Was it 91?
89.
89.
I was eight.
Yeah, right, so, okay, so, so,like, that's like, that's like.
I think it's just important foreverybody to remember, to
remember that the iron curtainwas not like an idea, it was not
a meme, it was not like a, itwas like a real thing, right, so

(07:42):
if you were on the wrong sideof the curtain, like you didn't,
you know, you couldn't justlike.
You know you and I can get inthe car right now and I can come
see you in New York and we candrive up and see Rob in
Minnesota, and you know, all isgood.
You know, if you are living in acommunist country, like the
answer, the first answer is no,and number two, if you're part

(08:13):
of the church, which is an enemyoutfit, you know for the
commies, you know you're beingfollowed, you know you're being
tapped, you know you're beingmonitored at all times and so
when you get called to Rome theysort of have to let you go, but
you have to ask permission togo right.
And so this you know the famousstory of, you know the famous I
think it's Vincente I forgetthe guy's name and I'm terrible
with Polish but you know, thegreat archbishop, basically, was
not allowed to go to the SecondVatican Council.

(08:35):
They let the young Wojtyla go.
So I think that's just part ofthe sort of the craziness that
we we see.
It's just an important part toremember that you know again, so
so, so think about John Paulthe second is named, you know,
is elevated to Pope in 78, youknow, you're still.

(08:57):
What is that?
You know?
12 years away from the ironcurtain falling.
Yeah, you know a lot of thatcrazy stuff in the 80s is like
you know, you got to rememberthere was the first world, which
was the free west, the secondworld, which is the communist
east and all the varioussatellites, and the third world

(09:17):
is basically the, the, the proxyplace where the first and the
second world, the first andsecond world powers are fighting
it out.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah, I mean we spent the whole decade of the
eighties fighting a proxy warwith Russia and Iran and Iraq.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
That's right.
That's right.
You know, and and look ateverywhere, right, I mean
Vietnam.
Now, that was clear.
That was another proxy war.
You know all the stuff that wasgoing down in South America,
cuba, all of the CIA shenanigansdown in South America.
So it's like I just think it'svery easy for all of us to
forget what the world was likein the post-conciliar clown

(09:54):
world.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
I mean JP II was traveling while he was just a
bishop, a colonel.
He was traveling to Hungary toclandestinely consecrate bishops
that's right without permissionthat's right, you know, and and
so.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
So, again, I I'm not here to to you, nobody needs me
to come in like whatever, youknow, white knight, white knight
for jp2 and b16, but I do thinkit's important for, like,
especially those of us who aretrad or trad adjacent.
I just think it's an importantthing to remember that the world
in 1976 and 86, and you know,is much different than the world

(10:34):
in 96, 06, you know, and 16.
Heard this, though, it made methink, like part of me want I
it's obviously just like inject,like whatever, just a a feeling
I have, but it seems like maybejp2 was like a cia, like not

(10:57):
that they planted him, but likethey pushed for him, right
because he's, he's behind theiron curtain and they're about
to get into this cold war, orthey're in the Cold War already.
I mean, it really is JP2 andReagan who bring down communism
for what we see as communism.
I'm not thinking about theideology, going around covertly

(11:17):
the way we do now, but what wesaw as communism at the time.
It's Reagan and too that workin tandem to bring it down.
Yeah, it's worth looking atwhen, when, when he's elevated
to the papacy in 78, he makes atrip to seven in 79, I believe,
to Poland to support thesolidarity movement and he had

(11:38):
been denied the year before.
And then, once he's Pope, hegets, he goes, he basically like
throws the middle finger up tothe commies.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
It's really, it's really impressive and the
solidarity movement was fundedby the cia like millions and
millions of dollars.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yeah yeah, there's video of john paul ii meeting
gorbachev and gorbachev was likeshaking.
Yeah, he's like.
I mean john paul, the secondbefore he gets sick is a, is a
masculine powerful man, man, nowhe's a man, yeah he's also
probably involved in jjp2getting shot, so that could be a

(12:14):
reason yeah, yeah for sure 100,100.
So so like when when you are.
Because you heard myconversation with um mark
lambert and and Michael Hichbornthis morning and I was
surprised because me and Markkind of I look with fondness
upon JP2 and Benedict, rightLike I come up in the 90s and

(12:35):
early 2000s.
My mom is a charismatic.
She goes to Metrogory, sheloves Mother Teresa, john Paul
II is, you know, anytime anybodybrings him up.
You hear the phrase the man's aliving saint.
I said this twice today but Ijust have to repeat it.
Like you heard that phrase allthe time the man's a living
saint.
So to hear Hichborn be from ourera, like Hichborn, I think, is

(13:01):
in between me and you.
I think you were born in what1971.
73.
73, right.
Like Hitchborn, I think is inbetween me and you.
I think you were born in whatNinety one, seventy three,
seventy three, right, so you'renine years older than me.
I think Hitchborn's rightbetween us.
Like he's probably like seventyfive, seventy six.
But his mom was like a basedCatholic when he was growing up.
So, yeah, my guess is his momprobably read the Wanderer and

(13:23):
so there was a microscopic tradsort of holdout movement.
That was the Remnant and therewas one other, the Wanderer.
The Remnant and the Wandererwere sort of these two kind of
outposts for the trads then.
But you know, it's yes, paul,I'm no, no, it's good, you know,

(13:46):
but that stuff is like prettymicroscopic.
It's like super French Remember, there's no internet.
They literally it's like theselittle flyers would come out
once a month.
I mean, it was pretty, prettysmall, small type thing, right.
So so there was no real tradmovement as such.
I think it's important forpeople to remember that too.
As such, I think it's importantfor people to remember that too
.
Obviously, you've got Lefebvreand you know he's doing his

(14:06):
thing, but I think that thatdynamic is also really, really
touchy.
You know, you think about whatthose guys went through, right,
like the early trads and eventhe ones that, like the early

(14:28):
FSSP guys who break apart fromthe sspx after, after um,
lefebvre consecrates the bishop.
So now you have the schismwithin the sspx, because the
fssp wants to stay faithful torome and stuff.
These guys are having latinmasses in their basement.
Yeah, there's nobody right.
And then all of a sudden, likeyou, fast forward to today, like
those guys that have been in itfor that long have to be like
oh, this is like a trad boom,everything's amazing and all
this stuff, like we see it asthis tyranny of francis.

(14:51):
But those guys kind of thoughteverything's been a tyranny
since the council, so it's.
It's definitely a differentperspective.
Those guys have but to to seehitchborn.
Uh, talking about the personnelchoices of jp2, and and
Benedict, you texted me earlier,you were like I don't know,
this kind of got to me a little,not that you were annoyed with

(15:11):
Hichborn.
You were just seeing those guysin that light, where the
personnel choices they weremaking, you were saying you
think they didn't recognize thepersonnel as policy.
Yeah right, saying you.
You just think they didn'trecognize the personnel's policy
, yeah right.
So my thesis, pull it aparthowever you want, but my thesis
is that the thing that that thatfrancis understood better than

(15:31):
either of his predecessors isbasically that personnel's
policy.
Right, and you know the, thesort of the, the age-old sort of
methodologies that use.
Basically those decisions werebasically funneled up from the
various dioceses, like up to the.
What was Vigano?
What was his role in America?
Annunzio.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Annunzio right.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
So you would filter that up to the Annunzio.
That was all controlled bybasically the one, two, three
guys who ran the conferences,right, and you would put up
those names and you know it'sbasically going to be a rubber.
It's.
It's basically a rubber stampthing, unless there's some kind
of smoking gun.
And so you know, when you arean executive at the level of a

(16:14):
Pope in an organization the sizeof the church, you know the
number one.
There's just nothing like it,just in terms of size and scope.
And so just think about howmuch you have to outsource to um
, to your underlings, right, Imean, there's just, it's just a
yeah, that's true, it's animpossible amount, right?
so, and again, think too, like,if you're benedict, what do you

(16:35):
care about?
Like you're a theologian, youknow you, everybody, everybody
gravitates to their naturalright, you know so.
So bened Benedict is atheologian, you know.
Jb2 is a performer, like, firstand foremost and I don't mean
that in any kind of shade, right, I don't mean that in any kind
of shade but I mean his role ishe's the guy that you could

(16:56):
stick up in front of a mic or apodium or a stage and he just
electrifies the crowd, likethat's what he?
was.
He's always been that.
That guy happens to also be apretty smart dude, of course,
which is why he and Ratzingergot along so well.
But you know, you gravitate tothe thing.
You, you, you, you spend yourattention on the thing that
you're good at and you think isnecessary.

(17:26):
And sadly for us, rightespecially all of us now who
have grown up in the age of thesexual abuse crisis you know
that was a colossal misjudgment,to say the least.
Right, I mean, it's awful,awful stuff, and so I am
offering no kind of.
You know, I'm not trying, I'mnot excuse making for what
happened under those two guys,but I'm also.
But I also think that they werevery naive when it came to just
how powerful.
You know, you might think of itlike the deep state.
You know the way that we thinkabout.

(17:46):
You know when you know whenTrump wins in 16, he's as
surprised as everybody, right?
And so when he rolls in therein January of 17, like the deep
state is a completely, you know,um, activated, uh to to work
against him, and I think thatthat's a similar thing that
happens.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
I mean, neither of them were really obviously like
you're saying.
They weren't administrators.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Right and remember, neither of them are from Rome.
I mean, I know Ratzinger hasthe reputation, but he only got
called to Rome.
I want to see he got called toRome in like 81, right after a
few years of John Paul's papacy.
He's like a professor inTübingen or wherever in Germany.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
Neither were really members of the Curia right.
They were outsiders.
They didn't know how theinsiders ran things, so I think
they were completely justoverwhelmed.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
Right, and I would just add one more thing to
somebody like John Paul II, moreso than Benedict, one of the
ways in which the commiesoperated against the church is
that they would regularly sortof cook up compromise against
bishops and priests, right.
So a kind of a classic way youcreate a dossier against a

(18:59):
priest is you say you've gotpictures, or maybe you get them.
You know, maybe you, you knowthe sort of the whole spy game
thing is a real thing.
And so John Paul II is kind ofpre.
He's accustomed to sort ofdismissing that as kind of
commie games, right.
Which, of course, if you're apredator you're like sweet, I

(19:21):
can play this up and down andsideways.
So somebody like Maciel, I think, played the Pope like nobody's
business because he knew all ofhis buttons, he knew all the
games he could play that.
So you pretend like you're kindof traditional and you pretend
like, oh, we're going to serveyou, holy Father, and so he's
predisposed to distrusting allof the things that turned out to
be true.

(19:43):
I think trads are unaware ofthe dangers of the dark,
traditionalist right, like thetrad priest who wears the
trappings of a trad and getsaway with some of the most vile
things.
I mean, you go back to.
The most famous case in recentmemory was oh, the dude up here
in Providence.
Yeah, he was in the Mass of theAges documentary.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
James Jackson Jackson .
That's it.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
James Jackson the vile things he was doing, right.
Yeah.
And I would say, like that, thatwas part of my awakening, you
know.
So, when I read myself backinto the church, you know,
around the age of 19, let's sayso, we're talking about 1992,
thereabouts.
You know my sort of low-restake on, it is like, look, if

(20:28):
you wear a cassock and you saythe rosary and you offer a
reverent mass, that means you'regood.
Right, because I like yourtheology, for obvious reasons,
and therefore you're one of thegood guys.
Right, and all these liberalpriests who are pushing for
liberalizations of, you know, ofsexual issues and female

(20:49):
ordinationals, so all of themwere civvies all the time.
Right, the Jesuits.
And so in my head it was like,if you were like a priest, you
didn't want to be called fatheror a nun who didn't wear a habit
.
You were a bad guy because yourtheology was off.
And look that oftentimes track,just to be fair, because your
theology was off.
And look that oftentimes track,just to be fair, todd, yeah,
Wait what was that no?
Todd, todd, todd just oh, toddTrad.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
James was a run-down James a.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
Nigerian Trad on Twitter he's black.
That's funny.
That's funny.
He derailed you.
I'm sorry.
No, no, no, it's okay, but Iremember there was a very
pivotal.
I had an experience.
Remember there was a verypivotal.
I had an experience basicallywe'll call it roughly in my
early 20s of a very, you know,orthodox priest.
You know, wore the cassock,like, did the whole thing, and

(21:34):
it turns out he was like had athing for handsome altar boys,
didn't do anything, as far as Iknow, because I believe me.
I searched and looked out but Iwas like, okay, well, wait a
second.
You know it was.
It was the realization that youcould actually use the
trappings as a way of a kind ofhiding in plain sight.

(21:55):
Yeah, and then the people inyour parish will will, if an
accusation is made, they'll yeah, he's a good priest, he's not
one of those other ones.
It's great, it really it.
You know, it's something thatwe do have to be aware of.
That does definitely exist.
I had a priest in my in one ofthe parishes when I grew up.
He did the children's mass andhe would get up there with
puppets and right.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Everybody loved going to the children's yeah, but
that's a totally different rightthere.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Yeah, but rob but rob , but rob like back in the day
that was, I suppose, but as akid I don't, I don't believe me,
it's skeeved, it skeeves us out.
But like back in the day, itwas like, oh, like this is a
priest who, like, cares aboutthe kids yeah, oh, he really
cares about him.
Yeah, right, but a predatorknows how to get to his victim
well, right, because what comes?
down to, you know, because,remember, like for a predator,

(22:42):
proteins, protein.
So where do you go?
You go to the protein sorts,right.
So if you're, if you're intokids, you go to the.
I mean, that's what you do,yeah.
And look, I live and work at aschool, right, and so it's
always.
It's something you always haveto be on guard, you know, all
the time, because you know thosepeople who are so inclined are
going to find a way.

(23:03):
We talked also about how becauseyou're a little too young to
remember John Paul's election,but your mother, like your
mother, very vividly remembersthe council, right?
So I remember my mom repeatingphrases like phrases that you
hear, and my mom, even when Itried to get her to come to the

(23:24):
Latin mass the first time, shesaid uh no, you don't understand
the, the, the mass was in a.
We couldn't even understand itback then.
And and it was thesecatchphrases that you hear all
the time and, like you, youwould explain this to me you go,
no, anthony, those are, thoseare spells.
Yeah, you know.
If any of you follow me onTwitter, you know I always carry
on about spellcasting, and thisis not just something in church

(23:46):
terms, but in political termsand cultural terms.
It's like you hear these littlethings repeated all the time
and people repeating spells thatthey've been spellcast by Right
.
I mean again, I'm only sort ofbeing cute about it.
To be honest with you.
Like, I do think that there'sthis weird kind of way in which
it's psychological conditioning.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right, you know, and soI remember to this day, anthony,

(24:07):
you and I talked about thisyears ago, but I remember I used
to love you know.
There was that time when Timand Taylor were doing their
shows and they did two shows onVatican II buzzwords.
Oh my gosh.
It was so good.
It was so good.

(24:28):
Rob, I was telling Anthony.
I remember I had my headphoneson and I'm cutting the grass A
couple times.
I just had to stop because Iwas laughing my ass off so hard.
What was some of them?
It was like our faith community.
Yes, they were like comecelebrate with our faith
community man.
They had so many good ones.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Should I try pulling up that video real quick?

Speaker 2 (24:49):
if you guys never saw that tnt show where they go
through nova sordo buzzwords.
It was so freaking good.
They were just talking about,like the felt banners and the
this, the silliness of what theydid to the mass.
You know, and it was but you.
But you were saying like the,your mother, like they were ripe
and ready for for thatrevolution.

(25:11):
Right, yeah, right Cause, look,so my mom so my mom is a
college freshman at Loyola innew Orleans.
So you know she's a Catholicschool girl goes to the Catholic
college right down down thestreet, loyola in New Orleans
company.
That's a great one.
And and you know, so the yearbefore she goes to college, john

(25:33):
F Kennedy becomes the presidentof the United States of America
.
And like that is such a bigdeal for American Catholics, as
crazy as this is for us.
Because we're like, yeah, butJohn F Kennedy was a dirt bag,
right, I mean it was just, itwas like an actual open question
the first.

Speaker 4 (25:46):
Catholic president, yeah, it's like, oh my gosh, the
first Catholic president.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Because, remember, what he has to do in order to
like make it okay for the restof the country to vote for him,
is that he has to basically sayin Houston yeah, like I'm an
American first, like you know.
You know, because people wouldbe like, well, you know, the
Catholic's going to listen tothe Pope first and there's all
these sort of dual loyalties,kind of like the JQ, I mean.
It's like it's very much kindof in that vein.
So he gets elected and then,like the next year, the Pope,

(26:16):
john XXIII calls for a counciland so everybody's like, oh my
gosh, we've got an AmericanCatholic president, we're going
to have everything's going to bemodern and great, like this is
going to be incredible, like themodern world's awesome, right,
and I, it's such a big part.
So they call the council.
So you know, and what alwaysfrustrates me about
conversations about the council,the council, the council, right

(26:39):
, is that you know, thetheologians talk about a council
and they talk about thedocuments, and we can have all
kinds of fun and, I think,generative conversations about
the documents, but none of thatmatters, right?
Because I think what matteredfor people like my mom, your mom
, is like when they were kids,they went to this sort of this
very old-fashioned Latin thing,stuffy Latin thing, and then all

(27:03):
of a sudden the priest shows upand he's wearing like civvies
and jeans and and he's lookingat us and you know it, just it's
.
It's a all of us, of course,who, like the traditional Latin
mass, look at that as like acringe fest, but at the time it
really is kind of like cuttingedge.
You know what one of themistakes they made was?
It was by doing what they did.

(27:26):
The revolution is frozen in time, absolutely Right.
So it's frozen in that decadewhere all these changes come.
So we're now I mean, how manyyears past?
It's 50 years past at thispoint, right, it's like 1970.
So this is literally 35 yearspast.
So for us, in 2025, you'rehearing the same like corny

(27:48):
music.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
What kind of math was that?
50, 55 years?

Speaker 2 (27:51):
I'm sorry, wow 55 years, I wasn't even thinking so
.
55 years later, you're hearingthat same music that is.
I mean they talk about, youknow, like a tradition of ashes
and things like that.
It's like you guys left thistime capsule trapped in the 70s.
It's just so alien to anybodycoming up in the modern age and

(28:15):
that's why there's this turn totradition and something more
timeless.
Yeah, right, and so you know so,when you were talking about,
like Father Murray's, you knowsort of take on this conclave,
that we just need somebody tolike kind of get back to these
sort of things, you know we lookat this and you just, you know
you got to be kidding me, yougot to be kidding me.
Yeah, so so I mean my take, Imean I don't sort of throw this

(28:39):
to you all.
I mean we can get into the PaulVI to John, paul I and II to
Benedict XVI to Francis, becauseI think it's these.
You know it really is,ultimately it's a fight on over
who owns Jesus, right, who ownsthe council.

(29:00):
What was so surprising to meabout a year into France's
pontificate is that for years Ihad always told myself look,
we're going to win, becausewe're going to win because all
the priests are ours.
We're going to win Again.

(29:21):
I'm just telling you what itwas like 13 years ago 13 years
ago.
Yeah Right, we're going to winbecause all the new priests are
conservative and the Vatican IIcrazies are, you know, or
whatever.

Speaker 4 (29:34):
They've been saying that since I was a kid.
Oh, I know, no, that's a moment, but Anthony, that's a spell
right.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
So what was most surprising is that that element
of the church actually wasn'tdead, yeah Right, and all of a
sudden they took everything.
They took over everything.
Well, you think about the JP2Catholics.
Right, like JP2 did, there wasa JP2 effect.
There was no Francis effect,but there was a JP2 effect.
This man goes around the worldall these world youth days.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
He converted millions and a lot of those.
How many millions more left?
Well, my whole familyapostatized on yes, right.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
So but not just that, he.
So all these young people comeinto the church.
A lot of them become priests,but they go through their
seminaries and they getbrainwashed by the
revolutionaries and then theybecome revolutionaries, yeah
yeah, I think Rob's point isworth.
I mean, that's the the thingthat has frustrated me really,

(30:29):
probably going all the way backinto Benedict the 16th time,
cause you know, I remember, like, looking around, and you know I
graduated.
Let's say, I graduated with ahundred guys.
I went to an all boys Catholicschool, you know, in Baton Rouge
, and you know of the a hundredand a hundred guys that I
graduated with, I don't knowwhat I 10 of us, yeah, right,

(30:50):
something like that.
Now it's more information class.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
I think there's which was like 20 people.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
There's like two of us.
Yeah, yeah, you know, and andso so now I do think it's prop.
You know it's a complicatedgenealogy.
You know there's there's a lotof, there's a lot of the a lot
of stuff going on there.
I think that I think, rob,especially in your age, you know
, your, your cohort, the sexualabuse crisis, I think, really
just decimated any kind of hopethat that there was to be a jp2
effect.
that just that just got flusheddown the toilet yeah, I mean, I

(31:24):
was confirmed in 2004, 2005, soa few years after you know but
this is this is actually a goodpoint, because I see it with,
like the, the george weigels andstuff, like these guys still
think like it's the jp2 erawhere we're fighting communism
and russia and stuff, and it'slike they really were.
They were because it was jp2and reagan who bring down

(31:49):
communism together.
Like I think there's that, youcan put that in there, yeah,
margaret thatcher too.
But there's this blend ofpolitics and religion at that
time where it's like, look,especially the older generation,
like the, the boomers and theolder Gen X guys, they conflate
being Christian with beingRepublican.
Like they think, well, I votedthe right way, so I'm a

(32:11):
Christian, you know.
And there's this total likelack of any kind of formation in
the faith whatsoever.
It's just well, I voted for theright things.
And I say just well, I votedfor the right things.
And I say the right things, I'magainst the right things.
But there's no actual deepfaith life there where they're
taking the Catholic faithseriously at least what it seems
like to me and the people I'mexposed to.

(32:33):
So yeah, now, so they.
So now Francis, though he comesalong after.
So John Paul the second andBenedict really did try to uh,
interpret the count.
I think.
Actually Benedict was kind oflike we're, we're beyond that,
right you have.

(32:53):
You have Pope Paul the sixth.
He closes the council.
You have John Paul the firstlast 30 days.
Then you get John Paul thesecond comes in and that's a 27
year pontificate like that's avery long pontificate and he is
the.
He is the pope of the council.
He tries to solidify what likeenacting the council, and he's
there for so long.
And then benedict comes alongand ratzinger kind of says, all

(33:17):
right, it's time to get awayfrom the council.
So he chooses the name benedict, because he kind of wants to
stop talking about all thiscrazy stuff.
But he's the one that tried to,you know, give us the
hermeneutic of continuity.
It was John Paul II gave uslike the new springtime and all
that stuff.
But Benedict really gave us thehermeneutic of continuity.
He tried to make sense of thecouncil with tradition.

(33:38):
He tried to make it make sense.
I don't know how it does, buthe did try to make it make sense
.
But then Francis comes alongand he throws that whole
hermeneutic of continuity outand he's just like, nope, we're
getting right back to therevolution that we.
It was almost like a pause inthe revolution for those two
pontificates, and then it wasright back to it.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Well, I I don't know if I would say it was a pause.
I think jp2 it didn't pause therevolution.
He, he, he calmed it down, slowit yeah, you know you still
couldn't have lads and masses.
Yeah, you know, you had to godirectly to rome if you wanted
one and chances are you'd bedenied.
Um benedict, like you said.

(34:21):
I think you're right.
I think he tried.
He realized we're gonna have tomove past it at some point, so
we have to somehow merge it into the rest of of catholic
tradition, catholic history,catholic life.
So he does some more onpontificum.
You know the HermeneuticContinuity, the mutual
enrichment right.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
He's trying to show like oh, the two liturgies can
enrich one another.
The one thing.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
I am thankful to Francis for is.
Francis showed us that that wasnever going to work.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.
Now, before I get your thoughtson that, kel, I have to go back
to something, because I forgotto say this.
You were saying you think thatBenedict and John Paul II were
kind of ignorant to thepersonnel as policy kind of
thing.
Right, I think that Benedictman, the one thing I got from

(35:15):
listening to the Benny Plennislike when you go back and you
listen to dr um what was hisname?
Dr mazza?
Like he takes you throughbenedict's writings and like
what benedict's thoughts wereand he kind of had this idea of
bifurcating the papacy and allthese things like these were
pre-thought things.

(35:35):
It wasn't like he just decidedone day to abd advocate.
And I think that benedict sawhim.
I think he saw us as inapocalyptic times, like I really
do think he saw himself as thepope, the bishop in white, in
the vision of fatima.
Now, he, that may not be true,but I do think he saw himself

(35:55):
that way and I think part of himjust kind of gave up trying to
even fix the mess.
I think he just kind of uh,like just accepted that where we
are and he, he saw us as comingup on something apocalyptic.
It starts with that radioaddress because he read the
third secret of Fatima.
It starts with that radioaddress in the 1960s and then he

(36:16):
starts the way he's talking.
He was.
There was a book called theFoolishness of God that came out
and the author was anonymous,but he kind of goes through how
Benedict was going back to atheologian from Augustine's time
.
I can't remember his name.
Do you remember his name, rob?

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Oh, yeah, yeah yeah, oh, tycho Tychonius name.
Do you remember his name, rob?

Speaker 2 (36:41):
so, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, tatsu like, not taiko
tyconius or something, andtyconius had like these ideas
about the at the end times,about, but whatever it was like,
benedict was referencingtyconius throughout his writings
and I'm fully convinced thatbenedict just resigned himself
to say my authority ends at thedoor, I'm going to abdicate and

(37:03):
just let them have the, let themhave the church.
It seemed like he, he, he feltvery strongly we were in the end
times.
In my opinion, that's what I Itake from the things he said.
Yeah, I don't, I don'tnecessarily disagree with that.
You know, I think he was amystical guy, way more so than
John Paul II was.

(37:24):
You know, I think John Paul IIlooked at things as a kind of
world stage type type thing,whereas I do think that Benedict
was more mystical.
I got to tell you I still donot understand the abdication.
I, you know, I really don't.
I don't understand it.

(37:44):
Are you angry with him for it?
Yeah, yeah, I would say so yeah,for sure, you know, and and,
and I especially because it gaveus Francis.
Now now to your point aboutFrancis.
I'm intrigued, I'm intrigued byyour take insofar as Francis

(38:04):
has sort of what the Marxistswould say has accelerated the
contradictions right, and Ithink that that's clear, right
that you know there's no roomfor a kind of naive take anymore
, because, but I would say thatthis is sort of a larger
question about the nature androle of the pontiff.

(38:24):
You know that that would thentake us all the way back to
Vatican one, you know, but butthe the, the whole post-war era
or the whole post conciliar era,strikes me, as I sort of think
of that, think it as justincredibly naive right that they

(38:47):
thought that they could sort ofcontrol this thing, and the
folks, the modernizers and theliberals in the church, were
always playing a step or twoahead of the kind of naive.

(39:08):
Again, you know conservativesroughly, you know you could talk
about it in terms of theCommunio school and the
Concilium school.
Right, the Concilium folks werealways way more politically
savvy.
And you know I don't know if youcaught this the other day, rob,
but I was tweeting about thenew Dutch catechism comes out
like literally months after, inthe early months of 1966.

(39:32):
And I'm pretty sure that PaulVI finished promulgating the
last documents of Vatican II inlate 65.
And so, like, not even like ayear later, they come out with
this catechism.
And this catechism is bonkers.
I mean it's bonkers and it'slike all the kind of stuff that

(39:53):
we would make fun of becausewe've seen versions of it.
But like right after we, so youcould see that those people in
the council they were all youknow that particular group of
people were frustrated that thecouncil didn't go far enough,
that they, they, they, they lost, you know, the, the, they, they
, they lost their nerve and theyshould have really sort of
taken it.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
So they just do it on their own.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
Yeah, and and but.
Then it becomes the sort of theplaybook, right.
And so it becomes the playbookfor all the Jesuits universities
and schools all around theworld, right, and Skilob X is
part of this, and I forget theother guy's name, but anyway,
the point here is that so Romeis totally flat footed.
Paul VI thought that he kind ofhad everything under control

(40:36):
and he's no conservative, ofcourse, but he was all about the
council, that the councilshould stand alone, it should be
its thing.
We'll put out this new mass andthat'll be kind of like done.
That's what I'm talking about,derek, you know it'll be.
It was called the Noya Catechism.
It became known as the DutchCatechism, so you know.
So Paul VI is like well, no,like we did the thing and so now

(40:58):
just do the thing.
And so the Dutch were like no,we're going to do you time, keep
pressing it.
Yeah, we're going to keeppressing, and that's the thing
that becomes seeded.
And so now the Overton windowgets shifted so far in the
progressive liberationist campthat Rome is constantly playing
catch up and they refuse to putout a catechism until like 1989.

(41:20):
83?
No, playing catch-up, and theyrefused to put out a catechism
until like 1989.
No, no it's, it's later thanthat.
Harden had one which was butbut.
But I'm pretty sure it's 89 or91, or 92, 91, I think you're
yeah, so yeah we always talkabout the 92 catechism right so
that's so.
So think about it so, so thatfrom 1965 there's no kind of
like answer to what does it meanto be Catholic until?

(41:42):
1992.
Ok, so that's the entirety ofmy life.
I graduated high school in 91.
Right, you know so.
So my.
So I was trying to say thisagain too.
Like for my entire life, everyreligion teacher I ever had,
certainly in high school, notone of them, liked John Paul II.

(42:03):
All of them thought that he washopelessly conservative trash,
so crazy.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
No, it's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
So it wasn't until I go to an alternative Great Books
Catholic school, thomas MoreCollege, in the fall of 92, I
heard a theology professor talkabout John Paul the second in
positive terms.
Now, we liked him just becauseyou know that's how our family
was, but I didn't know.
You know so.
You know so.

(42:32):
Every nun who taught, everypriest who taught every full,
you know theology religionteacher in high schools all
around the country taught everyfull.
You know theology religionteacher in high schools all
around the country all hatedjohn paul ii.
Yeah, so look tyler's tyler'slaughing at john paul ii being a
.
The reason I wanted to have thisconversation is because there's
so many new people in thechurch and so many younger

(42:53):
catholics like you guys don'tknow the era we come from, where
Francis really was this.
Look.
Francis was to the church whatTrump was to politics absolutely
just he.
Just like he's the mask dropmoment.
Right, trump comes out and thereaction to Trump everyone just

(43:14):
loses it.
And then, all of a sudden, likeyou saw, the the mayhem in the
media to Francis on from theleft is what happens on the.
The mayhem in the media tofrancis on from the left is what
happens on in the church justin the opposite direction.
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah, like he is like trulyloathed, like they hated that
poll, like you know, and Iremember when, when john paul ii

(43:37):
dies are you all familiar with,like Sister Joan Chidester.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
So there were a couple of like 1980s, 90s, like
Catholic journalist all-starsand they were all terrible.
Right, Every newspaper andevery diocese ran the same
articles.
They were opinion columns bySister Joan Chidester and Father
Richard McBride.
Both of them are like hardcorelefties.

(44:03):
They cannot stand the Pope.
John Paul II thought he washopelessly conservative and trad
, and so, week after week afterweek, they are publishing.
The Pope is terrible.
He's slowing this down.
What about the spirit ofVatican II?

Speaker 1 (44:15):
So they're like the 90s.
Austin Ivory.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
Yes, oh yes, and remember no internet, right?
No internet, none so there wasno, there was no catholic
alternative media again peopleare going to say the wanderer
and the remnant which was readby like a hundred not they're
not.
They're not being seen on that100 000 people, right, whereas
every diocese has a newspaper,that comes to your house once a

(44:39):
week with a newspaper, and thoseguys are printed all the time.
You had said you tweeted.
The other day you said if, ifthere was social media, like if
Twitter existed during the eraof JP to like the nuns and the
religious, they would have goneon a firestorm against John Paul
II.
Right, and remember that'sanother thing that that younger
folks in the audience because Imean, think about this.

(45:00):
I mean, if people in youraudience are 25 years old, you
know they were 13 when Francisgot elected, 13.
Ok, yeah, they've never not hadthe Internet, they've never not
had some sort of alternativevoices.
Ok, so you know.
I lost my train of thought,anthony, sorry.
With the, with the if they, ifthe nuns and religious had the

(45:22):
internet, yeah, so so when, whenjohn paul ii finally dies right
, they are like finally, thatson of a, that son of a bitch
died, we're finally going to getto get to be back on track with
vatican too, that is bulldogand elected and right, and so
god's rottweiler, which ishilarious, right?
I mean like really no but justthink, because they say that

(45:45):
that francis well, bargolio wasthe runner-up in that conflict.
Could you?
We had 13 years of francis.
Could you imagine 21 years offrancis?
Yeah, yeah, no, I know, I knowthink about that this is 2005.
Okay, so I'm going to do onemore on you, anthony.
Imagine if a Francis gotelected in 78.

(46:08):
Okay, wow, this is the kind ofthing like everybody hates John
Paul II, all the trans hate JPtoo.
You know, they're going to talkabout Assisi and they're going
to talk about all the things.
Right, I'm very, all thosethings.
But imagine if, if, if paul vihad been followed up by francis
dude, none of us would becatholic, yeah, none of us would

(46:29):
be I think even francis gettingin I mean benedict getting in
was a mercy from god.
like I, because I know a lot oftrash, think samorin pontificum
was a disaster, but I think itexposed all of us to the TLM
that's what I mean.
There was no TLM in any way.
For me it would have been theschismatic.
Sspx are the only ones that hadit.

(46:50):
But Samorin Pontificum comesout.
All these priests are allowedto say it, and then when Francis
comes, they still have thatability.
So it really the TLM doesn'teven explode after some more
pontificum, it explodes afterfrancis and it really explodes
after 2020, before traditioncomes out.
So, like all of us that aregoing to our latin masses, like
you owe that to benedict.

(47:11):
I don't care what anybody says.
Look, okay, I'm gonna.
I gotta call somebody out inthe comments here.
Hieronymus benedict and jp2 arenot liberals.
They're not like this is that'snot what liberal means.
Like I know, everybody's goingto prattle on about the nouveau
theologie and all that sort ofstuff.
Like you need to understandyou're dealing with.
You're dealing with you know,read Scalabex.

(47:35):
Like read Kung, like read theother side yeah, but that's the
Overton window shifting afterthe council so much like they
would be seen as liberals topious the 12th and pious the
10th.
Like they would have been seenas liberals by those guys but I
don't know if liberal is theright word.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
Liberal is like it's a squishy word yeah, it's like a
political philosophy based onindividualism and I wouldn't say
benedict or gb2 wereindividualist, but whether or
not they were slightly modernistyeah, yeah, I know what you
mean, rob, yeah, I know what youmean.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
But, but modernist is also like, very specific, it's
very flat, it's verymaterialistic.
You know it's very um, you knowit's like revelation is not a
real thing.
The scriptures were cobbledtogether by, like a couple of
dudes in the back room, like youknow.
You know the higher criticismof the Germans, it's
Protestantism, right, I mean,it's modernism and Protestantism

(48:31):
, you know, and there's nothingProtestant about you know I
cannot, you know you know me, Iplay well with others, but you,
but there's nothing Protestantabout Benedict.
It's just not.
Yeah, no, I really think thatBenedict saw himself as living
through the apocalypse.
I really think that's what itwas.

(48:52):
I think, even him stepping downI mean he even said he stepped
down because he felt an interiorcall by god to do it.
You know, it wasn't like he,just like he.
Really, I think he was a deeplyprayerful man.
Of all the popes that cameafter the council, I think he's
the only one that could be asaint, you know, I think I think

(49:13):
john paul ii had some beautifuldevotions, um, and he had a
really deep devotion to our lady.
But I think that, you know,under scrutiny.
They probably wouldn't havecanonized him if it wasn't for
trying to canonize the council.
I think benedict wanted tocanonize him, like benedict saw
him as a very holy man, but Ithink, you know, it was a very

(49:34):
political kind of.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
I do think there was personal holiness there oh yeah
I think he was a terribleadministrator and probably not a
great pope, but I think there'spersonal holiness there.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
How about this guys?
How much of this gets under ourskin?
How much do we question thecanonization?

Speaker 1 (49:55):
because of Carlo Acuna.
No, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
Not going there.
How much of this, how much ofthis gets dredged up because of
what they did with Paul the six?
Oh, yeah, for sure, cause I gotto tell you like as a no, it
was John.
I tried really hard.
I tried really hard to be aloyal son of the church, like I
really do.
Paul, the two things that brokeme from like 2020 ish on where

(50:23):
McCarrick and Paul the sixgetting canonized yeah, I, I
don't.
I still don't know how tosquare that, cause, I think it's
just a load of shit.
I just really do.
It's not just that.
And when, when John, paul thesecond, is canonized, Francis

(50:45):
makes John the second, iscanonized the uh.

Speaker 4 (50:45):
Francis makes john the 23rd.
At the same time, he doesn'teven get his own canonization,
john paul the second.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
He's canonized along with john the 23rd as a
political statement, which waswhich is horrific.
It's like like it should have.
I remember everybody beingoffended by that.
It's like, why can't this man,you know, we just he.
They wanted to call him johnpaul the great, you know.
And then, years later you lookback on it and you're like, oh,
maybe he wasn't John Paul theGreat but, like Rob said, he did
have a lot of personal holinessand he had some beautiful

(51:07):
devotions and you know, he wasalways talking about Our Lady,
always talking about giving yourlife to Christ he had an M on
his crest.
That's the first time any popehas ever done that, so he's
putting.
I mean he, I got anotherprecedent breaker, so you, maybe

(51:27):
he's a modernist after all, Idon't know, but but you know
he's, yeah, his marion devotionwas real, very real man.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
So okay, so not as strong as francis's, though,
according the modern media,that's right.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
That's right.
No, I swear.
I don't know if.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
I don't know, if I don't know if I make it, if they
I don't know they're not gonnacount it, but let's, let's play.
Let's play the view clip nolet's get it a good way to like
finish out the YouTube portionand then we're gonna go.
We need more recusers andsellers.
Good thing it's 20% off thisweek.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
We're going to finish up with the view clip and we'll
talk about the mainstreammedia's presentation of Francis,
and then we're going to go onto locals and we're going to
talk about the DanielO'Connor-Matt Fradd situation
and we're going to talk aboutsome of the public Catholics.
I call them the nice lords thenice lords you guys don't want

(52:29):
to miss that portion of the show, so let's hear the view.

Speaker 5 (52:35):
I think of this Pope he was the most Jesus like oh my
god, you know when you read ofJesus and what his word was and
how he walked.
This is what I think of aperson who lives their life this
way.
He also said at one point in2013 regarding gay priests if
someone is gay and he searchesfor the lord and has goodwill,
who am I to judge?
And these messages resonatedwith me, not as a catholic, but

(52:58):
just a christian the love thy,love all thy neighbor.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
Pause it real quick because, like they leave out the
context of the fact that thiswas a priest who made vows of
celibacy and he was like it'snot like he was.
Francis is even saying because,oh man, if a man is seeking the
Lord, you know, like that.
I remember that so vividly.
That was the first thing whereeverybody was like what is this,

(53:23):
what is he doing?
It was that then it was thebreeding with rabbits, that it
was the no no, no, hold on.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
Clarify breeding like rabbits, not breeding with
rabbits that's true, that'sright.
Yeah, remember, like thecatholics breeding like rabbits.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
It was the, then it was um, oh my gosh man, it was a
long 12 years dude do you thinkholy?

Speaker 1 (53:43):
do you think he's talking about the viewer us?

Speaker 5 (53:49):
all right, finish the clip out, let's see okay and he
lived that through his wordsand his actions I don't know if
I love all my neighbors, though.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
I love that you said that because, as a Catholic, you
know my whole life and all ofyou know this.
I've spoken to many of youabout it.
I've struggled because of somany of the church, churches,
the doctrines, especially whenin regards to the LGBTQ plus

(54:19):
community, in terms of the sexscandals, I've struggled with
being a Catholic.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
Did she just admit the sex scandals were because of
the gays?

Speaker 2 (54:28):
I think she divided the two.
Listen to what she says here.
This is crazy.

Speaker 3 (54:33):
But this Pope changed things for me and Whoopi and I
have spoken about that and Iremember I was having this
discussion with you, Joy, abouthow I feel like there's this
crisis of empathy in thiscountry that unless it happens
to you, you can't feel theempathy of somebody else I
wanted to get that, because youcan even get rid of it.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
We don't have to listen to the whole monotonous
thing, but just that whole.
You know, I've struggled withbeing Catholic because of all
the doctrines of the churchagainst the LGBTQ plus.
But then Francis came along.
Did you go back to mass, sonny?
No, no.
All of this.
They all talk like this Likewell, francis changed
Catholicism.
Did any of you decide to goback to the sacraments because

(55:13):
of this change?
Not one of you.
So I got a question for youguys and I think we can fit this
in before we go over to localshow much do you think if it
turns out that the crowds justdon't show up in Rome?

Speaker 1 (55:31):
how much do you think which?

Speaker 2 (55:31):
it looks like they're not.
I know, again, I'm beingtentative.
I still think there's going tobe a ton of people at the
funeral, I guess, or whatever.
But how much of an effect doyou think that has upon the
conclave?
Like here's?
Here's what I think is differentabout this conclave, and for
those of you who watched theearlier shows, I apologize,
you're going to hear my thingagain.

(55:52):
This conclave, and when I sawburke and um sarah going
together, like I think there wasthis because they went through
JP2 and Benedict, I think thatlast conclave, where Francis is
elected, I think there was likelike a I don't know what's the

(56:12):
right word, not naivete, butthere was almost like a whatever
.
Like they went into that notthinking of the dangers that
could be of a pope, because theyjust assumed they would get
another pope who taught thedoctrine, even if he did things
a little bit differently.
They just assumed, you know, Ithink they all believe
infallibility meant whatever waselected, you know, we would

(56:32):
still have the clear teachingdoctrine where this time, after
francis, I think, all of thoseconservative cardinals going in,
I think they're going to be waymore on their guard.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
And I think what kale brought up earlier about social
media is a large cause of thatlast conclave.
The social media wasn't like itis now.
Now they've seen the damagethat unclear, unofficial
teaching can do through socialmedia.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
So I think they're going to be all be on their
guard a lot more.
I think there's going to.
I think there're going to beall be on their guard a lot more
.
I think there's gonna.
I think there's gonna be chaosin this conclave.
Actually, I don't think they'regonna be able to just slip
another revolutionary and Ithink there's going to be some
real fighting going on, becauseeven dolan well, you know, yeah,
he's pretty squishy and he waslike you know, we want somebody
with francis's heart, but wewant somebody that's gonna speak

(57:17):
a

Speaker 3 (57:17):
little clearly on doctrine.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
Like we don't we don't need this mayhem anymore.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
You know, I think every single cardinal probably
is francis fatigue most of thecardinals are functionaries,
largely right, and they don'tlike having their lives made
difficult.
Yeah, and they've.
They've seen francis has madetheir lives difficult and if
they see a board turnoff for thefuneral or just a lack of
anticipation or excitement, they, I think they'll realize

(57:45):
another francis will just maketheir lives even more difficult
than it's already made yeah, I,I and I also think that what you
know there's a lot of there'sbeen a lot of noise about
Francis has packed the conclave.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
That's always true, right?
We forget that Francis came outof a conclave completely packed
by JP to a B-16 guy, so it'slike it means nothing.
But the significant thing thathe has done is that the College
of Cardinals is significantlynot Roman-centric.
It really is like from thefar-flung corners of the world
and he's never called them in tobe a body they haven't met

(58:26):
since 2015 exactly he's frozenthat.
He froze them out of the synodof synodality, he, you know so
in a weird sort of way, oh yeah,yeah, remember, anthony, a
synod is supposed to be amongstbishops and cardinals, the, the.
The novelty is that he's madethe synod about with, with like
folks like us lol, not us, butyou know, right, right, so so I,

(58:49):
it's going to be they.
So they don't have a kind of anidentity as a group of people
like they did for the prior twoand three and all the other.
They all knew each other eachother right, they would go all
the time.
Now not so much.
So I think that.
I think that, therefore, thereare a little bit more tuned into

(59:10):
what's going on at the locallevel and I think, like to your
point, rob, they don't want themess.
Like you know, hagen Leo isgreat for pope francis because
he can get all the good press inthe new york times, but if
you're just like a branchmanager out in friggin, you know
des moines, you know whereverdes moines, and it's like you
don't want this crap, I gotta behonest, I don't know what
insane cardinal would want theposition of pope.

(59:32):
Like you have to be a totalmental case to actually want
that position, because it'sespecially in today's world with
social media, where everythingis just a feeding frenzy in the
media, that somebody said um, uh, anthony thinks it's going to
be like the movie conclave.
Let me tell you something.
The movie conclave gives you agood insight.
It like the ridiculous endingaside, because there is a

(59:55):
ridiculous ending where the yeah, it's just something.
But the movie itself actuallydoes give you like an insight
into the political dynamic ofthe fighting going on behind the
scenes and the this guy, thiscandidate, he's going to keep
the revolution going and theother guys are trad and he wants
this stuff ended there's no onemore naive than a catholic who

(01:00:18):
thinks the holy spirit choosesthe pope.
Oh my gosh it's the mostearthly event in history.
It's just yeah.
I heard someone say it's apious belief.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
You know they were saying that to be charitable and
it's like it's an idioticbelief yeah, no, there's,
there's nothing hope you'regoing on.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
It is yes scheming, I mean I, I you think back to how
many of the the popes boughttheir office, probably back in
in the, you know, during thepornography and stuff, and yet
it was still in better hands.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Oh yeah, well, we all know who's anthony's favorite.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
Well, look, I, I said this earlier.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
I said uh, you know the church has a long, you know
the church has a long history.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
It's Pope Cope.
The church has a long historyof, you know, a fornicator and a
liar.
I was, but a heretic.
I never was, you know, and thatwas a lot of the popes in the
Middle Ages.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
They all had concubines and you know bastards
.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
but they weren't heretics and remember in the
18th and 19th century like thepope really was a branch manager
like he really was.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
It was the roman, he was symbolic.
He was symbolic.
I mean, everything's travelingby, by letter, right?
So, yeah, you are managing.
Like you know, there's thewhole saying in most, most
middle medieval catholics didn'tknow who the pope was.
Right, I don't think that'sentirely true, but you're right,
they had to, their bishops hadto.
But you're right, their bishopsmanaged their bishops, the
bishops managed the church,right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
I think it's going to be an exciting few weeks, guys.
This is the event.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
At least when we had popes that had bastards, we knew
they weren't gay.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Yeah, there's a truth there.
There's a truth there.
Oh man, all right, so we we'regonna jump over to the other
side.
I want to.
I want to talk a little bit ofabout the nice lords, all right
let's do it, we're gonna go tothe other side, guys.
If you guys are not localsubscribers, go subscribe to us.
If you're not, uh, uh,subscribe to kale's youtube
channel, kale had.

(01:02:18):
I'm telling you guys, if youenjoyed this conversation, go
check Kale's conversation withPaul VanderKley yesterday.
If I could just say about thatconversation it you know Paul's
audience is largely a mixedgroup of Christians, so like a
lot of what I was saying isgiving people just kind of
background on Speaking to aProtestant audience largely
trying to give them insightsinto.

(01:02:38):
Catholicism.
It's a good audience.
Paul's a great conversationalpartner.
Check it out, it's excellent.
It's on my YouTube site.
You guys had a oh man, I don'twant to start this conversation,
but you guys, we'll do it onthe other side because it'll
just drag into a half-hour thing.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Okay, are we ready to meet?

Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
Yeah, let's go to the other side.
Switch it over.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
Give me a minute here .

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
You guys are keeping me up way past my bedtime.

Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
This is awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
Quick, we do have the funniest audience, man, they're
all very quick.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
When you said the council was 35 years ago,
someone goes that was definitelysome Long Island wigger.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
I was just not thinking, I obviously know it
was 55 years.
I saw 70 in 2000 and I saw 30,and then I was just not thinking
.
I obviously know it was 55years.
I saw 70 in 2000, and I saw 30,and then I was going to add the
25, and I just said 35.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
Yeah, so you know what's wild I was thinking.
You know, like in 1985, thecouncil was 20 years ago right,
think about what's 20 years agotoday.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
Yeah, don't make me do that, it john paul ii.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
No, I'm gonna second die, right?
I mean, like that's like youknow.
So like 85 is like the council,like just happened.
Yeah, you know, it's just sothat the whole it really doesn't
depend on your age, right, likefor the guys that are 25, 20
years ago it's a lot, but for uswho've been around a little bit
longer, it's like 20 years ago.
Man, this is my 20-year weddinganniversary this July.

(01:04:05):
I was getting ready to graduatehigh school, that's right, I
just think that kind of stuffit's easy to forget.
It's just easy to forget.
What would it have been like Ireally do mean this, and you
know, what would it have beenlike?
Like, I really do mean thisLike what would it have been
like to have spent the ages of10, 10 years old to like 30

(01:04:30):
under Nazi occupation and thencommie occupation?
Yeah, like that's just and notjust that.
Like we we've really like Idon't know where you fall on
this, but the you know, with thefather maudsley controversy.
Like I had katherine bennett ontoday.

(01:04:50):
She had a conversation withfather maudsley and they caught
so much backlash like crazy, badjihad watch wrote something on
them and I was like all thesepeople went after now catherine
was really just going in to hearhim out.
You know she didn't agree withanything he said, but the.
So father mosley's position isthat there, after world war ii

(01:05:12):
and after the holocaust, all ofthese, uh well, his position is
the holocaust is nonsense, butbesides that, his position is
the Holocaust is nonsense.
But besides that, his positionis that the narrative that comes
from that, that the Jews thenlobby the church to change her
liturgy, and things like that.
Now whether he's right aboutthat or not.
After World War II, there isthis narrative that comes forth

(01:05:34):
from the Holocaust and there isincredible pressure on the
church because they're framingit.
Look, even the idea that wecall it a Holocaust.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
And that narrative really does start about.
And I'm not saying they'reconnected, I'm just saying the
timeframe.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
that narrative about the Holocaust starts in the 60s,
that's when you get the numbersix million and things like that
.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
The diary of Anne Frank, you get.
The term Holocaust starts to beused in the 60s.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
The term Holocaust starts to be used in the 60s.
Well, calling it the Holocaustreally is an insane thing,
because what a Holocaustoffering is is a burnt offering
to God, and Jesus Christ is thefinal.
Holocaust offering, so it'slike to call it the Holocaust.
What they're implying is thatChristians sacrificed Jews as a

(01:06:18):
collective, as a burnt offeringto God right, and that narrative
comes into this timeframe ofthe council and you're getting
men who were under Nazioccupation then become you guys

(01:06:40):
are so sad, that's so good.
So you get these men like youhad Benedict was like forced to
join the Hitler Youth and youhad John Paul II was under
Nazi-occupied Poland and like tothink that there is no pressure
for the church to change thingsthrough.

(01:07:02):
That narrative is kind of naivein my opinion.
You know, and and I do see itas if you see the story as a
typological story you, if thePharisees are the ones who
crucify Christ in the firstcentury, I think they are going
to play a significant role inthe end as well, like it's just
how I see it.
So, you know, regardless ofHolocaust narrative or anything

(01:07:25):
like that, I think that the, the, the enmity between the older
brother and the younger brother.
It's like the Jews have thecovenant and then it goes to the
Gentiles.
They have gone through 2000years of being told your God
chose us and there's thisnatural enmity that just is
built up between them.
It's just the way it is.

(01:07:47):
Yeah, I agree, we were justbridged off somewhere.
I forgot where we were talkingabout.
We were talking about theconclave.
You said you wanted to startsomething, but you said, no,
let's hold it to the other side,we're never going to get to
that.
Oh, we're going to do the nicelords yeah you're a teacher, I

(01:08:10):
don't even want to get you intothis conversation, never mind.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
I don't even want to get you into this conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
Let's steer clear of this.
I'm not doing that to you.
So the nice Lords and the waythey have handled the way they
have handled this, the passingof Pope Francis Now I put out a
tweet the other day that Ididn't say anybody specific, but
it's like there's this thingthat happens where people will
speak one way behind the scenesand they'll, they'll, they'll be

(01:08:39):
somebody behind the scenes, butthen when they go on their show
, they put forward a front andthey, uh, they will do like
performative piety to theiraudience in order to not lose
the normies, things like that,and I think that takes a toll on
somebody.
Like it's almost as if you'reliving a double life.

(01:09:01):
I wasn't speaking of anybodyspecific in that, it's just I
see the way some of the peopleare coming out and talking about
Francis and I know they don'tactually think these things.
I know they don't.
Who are they performing for?
What does it accomplish forthem?

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
I don't know.
Is it their audience?
Yeah, but is that effective tothe?

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
audience.

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
It's probably more honestly.
They're bigger donors.

Speaker 2 (01:09:30):
That's interesting.
Yeah, that's probably true, solook.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
Those bigger donors tend to donate to very similar
other sorts of channels that areall included in the Nice Lords
too.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
Right, yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
Catholic Inc.
That's what we're talking about, right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
So the large donors to Catholic Inc.
And you see they're formingtheir new apologists and you see
they're bringing up their newinfluencers.
You see, it's like Lila Rose,Voice of Reason.
These are the people they'reforming and bringing up.

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
None of them ever say a negative catholic inc.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
Who, who is this?
Can we say this here is like oh, is this?

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
a I don't know.
No, like we money I genuinelydon't know money money?

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
catholic?
We don't know the names.
We know the, the people theydonate to, but we don't know the
actual donors well, I'll saythis, though it is a strange
thing going on with that philoscatholic project, but I don't
want to bring that up with youagain, but there is.
It does seem like there's aninfluence there.
But, um, yeah, it's, it's, it'sthis performative piety and

(01:10:36):
like look well, it makes meangry, though, like you know, so
I'm.
I listen to the clip and youknow, for me the cop has always
been, always been let's saylet's say this specific clip
we're talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:10:46):
We're talking about the Matt.
Fradd clip right.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
So you know.
So I tweeted about it and I'mlike nobody talks this way, like
this is just like, this isgarbage and no-transcript when
your father abuses you.

(01:11:11):
Yeah, the question that I'm I'msupposed to ask, as the son, is
not what have I done to makedaddy mad?
It's just not.
That's that.
That's bullshit.
Yeah, it's like.
No, like I didn't pick thisfight.
It was a strange thing.
It was a weird selfflagellation he did on on his

(01:11:32):
show the other day where, look,like the Pope had just passed
the map rapids a video out and Iwanted to watch it and I'm like
, okay, what's Matt going to say?
And he and he comes on and he'slike you know I, you know
people, people might say somethings about Francis, and fair
enough, and like he plays thisdevil's advocate.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):
And then and then he goes.
But you know, really, I reallywant to know what have I done to
damage the body of Christ?
And before this there's a videothat he does, like a couple of
weeks ago, where he talks abouthow Catholics should never speak
about other Catholics.
And it's like what?
Yeah, he like puts his videoclip out where he's like you

(01:12:12):
know, catholics, if you want togo to hell, you should never
speak.
You know you're going to go tohell if you speak about other
Catholics.
And it's like, dude, we're allputting stuff out in the public,
like we're, we're opencriticism if we put stuff out in
the public.
But then the Pope just passedand we just went through a very
insane 12 year pontificate andto come out, and I'm dude, I

(01:12:33):
just I don't.
He's never said it to me, he'snever.
Like I've never had aconversation with him about
francis, but I know matt frad'sopinion of francis.
Like he's not happy about it,yeah no, he's dropped enough
hints about it and he saidenough publicly to know that you
know when he comes out and he'slike let's pray for the pope.
Okay, he's just talking likeI've never seen anybody talk

(01:12:54):
before.
It was just this bizarre thing.
And it's like and then and thenthe daniel o'connor situation
comes up and daniel o'connorputs out a video today and it
was like matt frad had, um uh uh, jimmy aiken on and paul fig
pin on and they're both talkingabout aliens and all this stuff.
So his whole audience kind ofpushes him to have daniel

(01:13:14):
o'connor on to give the the.
You know the opposite, you knowthe other side of that argument
.
And that responds to danielthat like he sets it up to have
him on and then he eventuallytells him I have been in, I have
been advised by people aroundme not to have you on.
So right away, my, I'm saying Iguarantee those same people

(01:13:35):
that advised him not to havedaniel on advised him not to
have us on, because I know mattlikes us like he did at least I
don't know, probably doesn't nowbecause of all the things I've
said about him but yeah, Itweeted something right before
the show too oh dear sorry, Idon't, I've just given up, like,
even like they're a differentthing than us.

(01:13:56):
I want to drop another bomb, socan I share my screen real quick
?

Speaker 3 (01:13:59):
Yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
This is what I want out of you guys.
Here we go, share, share this.
All right.

Speaker 1 (01:14:11):
Oh, so true, Nick.
Nick says, Mad frat is foreverdamaged by net ministries so
true, I had to go to those oncea month okay, what oh yeah heck
is this what the heck is thishope francis is dead?

Speaker 2 (01:14:28):
a traditionalist response by timothy flan there's
you didn't see this go jacktweeted this in order to avoid
the sin of pride, we mustimagine that pope francis died a
christian death.

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
And well it's so if you didn't see steve's tweet,
steve tweeted something alongthe line scale of like it's been
what four years, four years isit too soon to say what the hell
is happening?
Can you bring up?
Steve's been four years.
Is it too soon to say what?

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
the hell is happening .
Can you bring up Steve's tweet?
I didn't read it.
I want to see it.
Oh jeez, I'll bring it up.
I'll find it.
Yeah, bring Skojak's tweet up.
Look, you guys can say whateveryou want about Skojak.
I know people are pretty awfulto him.
The thing is the man lost hisfaith on the.
Francis.
Y'all know I'm like boys withSteve.

(01:15:12):
He and I are friends Legit.
We talk to each other every day.
I get it.
I get why people hate him.
I do, I don't.
He is as a pugilist, he eats usup.
His piece yesterday on Franciswas as raw as I've ever read.

(01:15:36):
I mean, it's like it's his MobyDick.
So that's all he wrote.
He just said what the hell isgoing on with the publication.
I found it.
Because, the thing is, you cansay what you want about Skowjeck
.
When he ran 1 Peter 5, it wasthe go-to trad publication.
He created the whole lane manhe really did.

(01:15:57):
First of all, he's a phenomenalwriter.
I don't care what, anybody sayshe is just a phenomenal writer.
He had something like a year ortwo ago where he just kind of
delved back into it and Iremember reading it and being
like damn, I miss steve's gojack man.
Like I miss him.
Yeah, like he was such a goodvoice but he lost his faith

(01:16:18):
under francis.
And it's understandable like I,I people that say like don't
leave, don't leave jesus forjudas and stuff.
It's like man, that's a.
That's a ruthless way to lookat it, because I've lost my
faith before I left thesacraments under Francis.
I went through that period andby God's grace, I came back.

(01:16:39):
But it is not a good place to bewhen you lose your faith.
It is an awful place to be.
You have an existential crisisand you don't know if your
purpose in being is.
It is such a scary place to beand anybody that like gloats in
that, like you guys, you don'tknow what it's like to be there.
I'm glad that you're solid inyour faith and nothing can shake

(01:17:02):
it.
But what we endured underFrancis made a lot of people
lose out.
A lot of people went toorthodoxy.
A lot of people left the faithtotally because of him.
So y'all want to talk.
A lot of people went toorthodoxy, a lot of people left
the faith totally because of him.
So you want, y'all want, totalk.
Uh, I don't, I don't want totalk so so what do you think?
So you know, like you two, I'vebeen scouring, like what are

(01:17:25):
people saying, what are peoplesaying, and you know you've got,
you know you've got some of thetrad types who are, like, you
know, it's going to get worsebefore it gets better.
I know you sort of talked alittle bit about that.
And Sarah is not.
You know, if Cardinal Sarai,you know the long shot of long
shots, even if he gets in, he'sgoing to make it worse.
And you know, and I don't knowany of that, I don't know what

(01:17:48):
will happen.
But the way that I see it islike you know, you could sort of
have full blown reactionaryright, a kind of an attempt to
sort of split the difference andhave a kind of conservative.
You know ish.
You know JP to be 16 kind ofvain sort of person, or a 2.0,
or Francis 2.0.
So is that basically what y'allthink, um?

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
I don't think there is a trad option.

Speaker 2 (01:18:14):
So yeah, so it's.
It's one of those three.
It's either a jp, jp3, a b17 ora francis the second.
I don't think there's even aviable option for leo the 13th.
I don't yeah, I don't eitheryeah I don't either yeah, I
don't either.

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):
So I mean I think there is a potential for someone
along the lines of Pius XII,because I mean Pius XII
definitely more trad thaneverything we've had since Right
.
Right, I mean he did make somechanges to the liturgy and you
know it was, you know.

(01:18:50):
So, no, he's not like a fullpious the I just sent the clip
to you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
I want, I want to play.

Speaker 1 (01:18:56):
That has to do with exactly what we're talking about
, um I think most likely, likeit is probably a benedict, the
17th sort of conservative, buthopefully a better administrator
.
I think the, the options thatwould be along those lines,
would probably be betteradministrators, like like, uh
what, urdo and um, the dutch guy, what's his name?

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
edgic, egic, something like that, I, I, I.

Speaker 1 (01:19:20):
It's ike, I think technically yeah, um, you want
me to pull up that video now?

Speaker 2 (01:19:24):
yeah just pull up that.
It's only 17 second clip.
I just yeah, this is this.
This seems a bit naive to me ohyeah, yeah, this is a good one.
This is a good one.
This is a good one, yeah,because I do like Father John
Murray, but it just kind ofseems naive to me, and I think
this is something that me andCale actually talked about.
It's like there's somethingabout guys that grew up in this
era.

Speaker 4 (01:19:47):
What needs to be done in the church, and it will
basically be to reaffirm whatJohn Paul II and Benedict were
doing defend the faith and tryto appeal to modern man to see
the value and the goodness ofwhat Christianity teaches.

Speaker 2 (01:20:03):
Do you think it'll be so, like to me, if you get that
guy, I don't think it fixesanything, right, okay?
So so then let's, let's do aquick speed run of those two
options, right, because I thinkmost of us think if it is the
guy that murray is sort ofsetting up there a kind of b17,

(01:20:25):
let's say what happens.
Right, you know, scale that outover the next five years.
Or if you get a francis to, youknow to scale that one out in
the next five years.
Okay, so you get a you get afrancis.
The second in my opinion.
What happens is the the.

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
The mayhem inside the church continues my one
question would be does thefrancis the second continue tc
or does he at least undo tc?
Because I think you you couldget a francis the second that
knows right away.

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
He doesn't want to deal with angry, so let let the
trance play in their littleplayground and we're going to
fast forward with senate andsynodality stuff.
Yeah, I think, I think, I thinkyou, I need to get a francis.
The second, you have tocontinue TC, because I think
they've rightfully recognizedthe problem.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
I actually do Right, but think of someone like Tagle.
He seems like someone who Brolikes to be liked.
Yeah, exactly, and he knows, ifhe lifts TC, he doesn't have to
deal with trads for at least acouple of years, right, a couple
of years maybe.
He's infinitely better thanfrancis, and listen to me you
can say what you want about tc.

Speaker 2 (01:21:36):
We all hated it, they know it's a problem.
The track communities becausewhat you're getting is you're
just letting yeah, butespecially if you're gonna let
it go back to some morepontificum rules where any
priest can can say it like youwill kill the novus ordo church
rob well, you don't even have to.
You won't even have to, right?
Because, because, remember, thenovus ordo church is betressed

(01:22:00):
and financed by the boomers andwe're within the 10-year die-off
.
Yeah, span, yeah, so you'regonna.
So, just by, like a war ofattrition, you're gonna have
trad communities who have kidsand you have novus ordo
communities who don't have kids.
You know, that's actually,that's like the new biological

(01:22:22):
option, I suppose on some level.
Listen, I'm telling you theseguys saw, okay, look, every
revolution starts with like twopercent of the population.
Right, it's like, yeah, allright, so try someone who told
you that I know well, I learnedfrom my co-host it's like put
note to rob.
The rob's taught me a lot onthis show for sure, um, but yeah

(01:22:44):
, that's how that goes right andthey see.
They see that that's where theyouth is drawn to and that if
they tc was as much.

Speaker 1 (01:22:53):
Yeah, but has tc caused it to grow or decline?

Speaker 2 (01:22:57):
it's well.
The thing is it's they, they,they.
They never understand, yeah,the, their actions right like,
so they, they, they do put the,the brakes on it.
Look, it caused it to shrink,in that it's no longer at the
diocesan parish, but right, it'scaused more attention.
It's a, it's a strisand effectis what it is, you know, and
it's more people are looking forit now and they're going where

(01:23:18):
they can.
I would say strike me down,darth vader, and I'll become
back more powerful.
I mean, that's like the okay,so.
So then let's do a speed run inwhich francis ii uh, continues
tc.
Okay, so francis ii continuestc.
Francis II continues TC.
Okay, so Francis II continuesTC.
You continue to have thisfracturing inside the church.
You're going to have Catholicsfighting amongst Catholics, all

(01:23:39):
that kind of stuff, and it'sgoing to just further decimate
the body of Christ itself.
I really do think the church isjust going to continue to
fracture and it's just going tobe a tribal thing.
You're going to get like we'rethe rarity where we'll talk to
you and we'll also talk to aTaylor Marshall.

(01:23:59):
These people are all breakingoff into groups and that's the
one thing that broke my heartthe most under Francis is that
people of goodwill that believethe Catholic faith, who might
not have access to a Latin mass,they still believe the Catholic
faith.
Who might not have access to aLatin mass, like you know, like
there's, they still believe theCatholic faith.
Like there's gotta be some wayto have conversations with
everybody.
So that'll continue in here.

(01:24:19):
If you get a Benedict the 17th,I think the world turns on the
church.
I think the church has gotten apass these past 12 years
because of Francis, because theworld sensed francis was taking
the church in a more progressiveway, allowing this, allowing
that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:35):
But the world is that I should say that sort of world
, the, the liberal, uh worldorder is dying, just like the
novus ordo is done.
Now, that usually means thatthey're actually more dangerous,
right, right, like if they'recornered and they're dying.
But I would think persecutionfrom the world will just

(01:25:00):
eventually die off, just likepersecution from the.

Speaker 2 (01:25:03):
Well, I think it's going to get violent?

Speaker 1 (01:25:04):
Oh, I do too.
I'm not saying that, I'm justsaying like yeah, I think.
I think that only lasts so long.

Speaker 2 (01:25:11):
Well, of course, but that but I it will happen is if
that persecution does come onthe church, even if it's not
physical, even if it's not likereal persecution, even even the
attacking from the media, thingslike that, like cause, if
you've got a Benedict the 17thand they start approaching him
like calling them God'sRottweiler, things like that,
and the media turns on on thenew Pope, what it'll do is it

(01:25:32):
will cause the church to unite,like the lady will then unite to
defend the Pope, and it willbuild up the body from inside
and we'll get it.
I think all of us alwaysthought especially on the
Benedict and JP too that theworld is going to hate us and
we're willing to acceptpersecution from without like
that.
That was like the.
You know, that was the fate wewere all willing to accept.

(01:25:54):
It was when it turned frominside on us that we were all
like, yeah, what is this?

Speaker 1 (01:25:57):
it would?
That's what I mean, that that'swhat hurt, right more, more
than more than the world.

Speaker 2 (01:26:03):
Hating us is our own hierarchy, our father's hating
us.
Yeah, yeah, that's been themost depressing thing, honestly,
finding out how few of thefreaking bishops believe the
catholic faith has been.
This has been the mostdevastating thing, right,
because I didn't think that youknow, I can, I can officially

(01:26:23):
say that that's not where I was13 years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:26:31):
You know, and I wasn't a terribly naive person
either.

Speaker 2 (01:26:34):
You know what I mean.
It's like Look, they all knewhow to pay lip service.
They knew if they just went toa pro-life, a march for life, oh
he's one of the good guys.
Right, they knew how to wear themask.
Even Dolan.
Before Francis, dolan was seenas like A stalwart defender of
life.
When he came to New York, newYork was thrilled.

(01:26:57):
They were so happy we got Dolan.
Dolan was the bishop fromWisconsin who was the great
defender of life.
Then he comes to New York andFrancis comes in and the next
thing, you know he's letting thegays march in the St Paddy's
Day Parade and you know heactually had Talking about that
gay football player.
He's like thing.
You know he's letting the gaysmarch in the St Paddy's Day
parade and you know, oh, he's.
You know he actually hadtalking about that gay football
player.
He's like oh, you know, ohthat's right yeah.

(01:27:18):
You know, I say best to you.
Whatever he said to him, youknow, and it's just all of these
guys.
Dolan what I realized is justwants to keep his gig, like
he'll go wherever the wind isblowing.
He just wants to keep his gig.

(01:27:38):
He's a functionary, not just afunctionary.
He loves being archbishop ofnew york and going to the
cocktail parties with andrewcuomo when he was the governor
and with kathy hokal now, likehe loves being at the al smith
dinner.
That's, it's his thing.
That's what he wants to do.
He wants to be the archbishopof new york.
I think nobody is happier thatFrancis died than Timothy Dolan.
That man threw a fricking party, clipping that for a short

(01:27:59):
Cardinal, archbishop TimothyDolan.

Speaker 1 (01:28:01):
He's like.
He's like a Roman funeral.
Imagine the food there, Notjust that.
Well, I think he's takingOsempic, that man.

Speaker 2 (01:28:11):
he gets a reprieve because he submitted his
resignation this year.
Yeah, he did.
He submitted his resignationthis year and, with Francis
passing, that's a pretty longprocess of getting a new pope
and that pope getting settledand getting a reprieve from
Carlo Rob is thrilled, rob isthrilled, rob is thrilled.

(01:28:34):
We don't have to count on that.
This is a few years Franciscame in.
He didn't start doing thosecrazy personnel changes.
On day one.
He had to get his bearing andhe nominated his cardinal, his
nine-man cardinal, hisfellowship of the ring, his
privy council.
He had hiship of the Ring,whatever the hell, it was His.

Speaker 1 (01:28:51):
Privy Council.

Speaker 2 (01:28:52):
yeah, he had his Fellowship of the Ring before he
killed off freaking theAustralian Cardinal Pell.
Before he had Pell whacked.
Man, you think about some ofthe craziness we've watched over
the last couple of years.
Man, I think for sure that Pellwas whacked.
He went into that surgery.
It was a freakingrun-of-the-mill surgery.

Speaker 1 (01:29:13):
They had him whoops, sorry, we should do.
We should do a video on uhvatican, uh assassinations
throughout history I bet, I betyou'd be, we would be shocked, I
bet.

Speaker 2 (01:29:26):
Look, you're talking about men who I mean like what
the hell happened with John Paul?
I I mean like come on come on,man, there's no way that guy,
just like he, died in his sleepgives him the dossier he says
he's gonna act on it.
Suddenly dies JP you think thatwas the mob, though you think
that was the mob clipped himbecause well, maybe the mob did

(01:29:47):
the deed, but it was.

Speaker 1 (01:29:48):
It was definitely done at the behest of who was.
Who was paul the sixthsecretary of state?
That's who.

Speaker 2 (01:29:57):
That's who did it man you think about like look,
because we all have this ideathat they all believe in god.
They don't believe in god, mostof them like most of them are
just politicians and yeah,they're athe, they're the
Sanhedrin, yeah, they're thefreaking Sanhedrin.
These guys, I'm telling you,it's like the men that got

(01:30:18):
elevated.
What really happened in thechurch after the council is
there were several gay men inthe hierarchy and they went
around and they elevated the gaypriests who did sexual favors
for them.
So it became a gay club.
Like it just became a gay club.
And it's like gay priests whodid sexual favors for them, so
they it became a gay club.
Like it just became a gay club.
It's like and if you performsexual favors, I will elevate
you too, will elevate you too.
And it was only the gays thatgot elevated to positions of

(01:30:40):
authority.
Before you know it, the wholehierarchy is gay and the ones
that aren't gay know to shuttheir mouths.
That's, that's really whathappened, because I think there
was a time in the church wherethe church was a sanctuary for
somebody who had same sexattraction.
Like it was like all right, I'mnot attracted to women, but at
least I could go be a priest.
And it wasn't that they were.

Speaker 1 (01:30:56):
I mean I forget the name of the book and the priest
who wrote it, but he says 50% ofthe people in seminary between
you know up to 1970 were gay 50%.

Speaker 2 (01:31:07):
Yeah, yeah, 50, yeah yeah, now it's like 80 probably.
Yeah, the um, the uh, the um Iwas talking to see a site was
the one.
Who?
Who talked about that?
Um, oh shit, I lost my train ofthought.
Oh well, it'll come back.
Yeah, he, he went in and he didall those interviews, right,
like he went and he actuallyinterviewed all the priests and
it was like anonymous.

(01:31:28):
So he actually got a prettygood understanding of how bad it
was.
But yeah, I think there was aprobably a time where it was
like you were a gay man, youweren't attracted to women.
Everybody would be asking you,why aren't you married, son, why
aren't you married?
So they would go and go to thepriesthood and they'd have a
lavish lifestyle and they didn'thave to ask.
Anybody asked them the questionwhy aren't you married?
They probably had a boyfriendon the side occasionally.
But but the wild thing is, youknow, even like somebody who is

(01:31:50):
considered at during hislifetime as being kind of like a
stalwart for old-fashionedcatholicism, like cardinal
spellman of new york city, likethat dude who says he was as as
queen, he was like bad, in fact.
I mean rod rod told me that hisnickname amongst amongst the
like the people who know wasBubbles, like he was, I mean

(01:32:13):
like bad.

Speaker 1 (01:32:14):
I mean we call Farrell and McElroy McCarrick's
nephews, but I mean McCarrickwas Spellman's underling, that's
right.

Speaker 2 (01:32:24):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:32:25):
And they say Spellman was one of the four cardinals.
That, what's her name?
Belladad, belladad.
Four cardinals that?
Um?
What's her name?
Um, bella dodd, bella dodd.
So there was four cardinalsthat were, were in place from
the the kremlin as communists,and it's rumored that spellman
was one of those four yeah, andso played the role, though, but,

(01:32:46):
interesting, played the role asthe kind of again the sort of
traditional conservative guy.

Speaker 2 (01:32:53):
Again a perfect cover story, right, I mean, yeah,
yeah, it's like, um, I thinkwhat francis tried to do, though
, by elevating mackleroy, byelevating soupage, by making
like, I think it was actually anattempt at a hostile takeover
of the church by godless menlike these were men that weren't
even pretending they had thecatholic faith.

Speaker 1 (01:33:13):
These are men who are openly in infiltration, if you
will.
It was way more thaninfiltration.

Speaker 2 (01:33:18):
It was just, that's it we're taking like they made.
They made their move underfrancis and I do kind of think
his death was a little bitsudden, like I know he got sick
this year.
I know he got sick this year.
Look at rob before this yearfrancis like you.
You look, four months agofrancis was out doing like he
was out and about, like nothinghappened.

Speaker 1 (01:33:38):
Then, when he got sick, it was the man was
hospitalized, like four monthsago too he's been hospitalized
like three times in the last 12months yeah he's?
He's had three, what, uh, oneand a half long, since he was a
teenager yeah, he still kickedtill 88.

Speaker 2 (01:33:55):
Man, I'll take that deal, I'll sign that contract
right now.

Speaker 1 (01:33:58):
Uh, you might not want to sign the contract he
signed, man, that's true.

Speaker 2 (01:34:01):
I do not want to officially, I do not you know I
do not want to sign thatcontract, keep me poor and
humble lord, keep me, oh, mygoodness, man, yeah, oh man, it
is a.
It is an interesting time to beall right, so so, so so the
pope's buried at the end of thisweek, right, he's tomorrow or

(01:34:23):
something like that saturdaysaturday okay so saturday, and
then the conclave has to start,I think, on tuesday, two weeks
from yesterday, two weeks fromTuesday, right?
So so we're going to, so they'regoing to go into a conclave, so
we're going to get all thoselike free speeches.
I'm actually kind of lookingforward to that.
So wait there's some wait aminute.
Ok, so the funeral Saturday,and then it's not this Tuesday,

(01:34:44):
it's the following Tuesday,following Tuesday, right, so
what happens in that day?

Speaker 1 (01:34:52):
right?
So what happens?
In that it has to be at leastwhat?
Nine days after the funeral orsomething like that.
Yeah, no more than 15 or no,right right, death.

Speaker 2 (01:34:56):
The conclave has to start 15 days, no later than 15
days, after the pope's death,right, right, so typically, the,
the funeral, right, that this,so they push that.
So yeah, so you're going to getall those like opening speeches
because there's a whole publicversion of things and then they
go in, right.
So, if memory serves, because Iremember when, when, when JP

(01:35:18):
two died, you know, that's whenBenedict, then Ratzinger offers
that sort of the, the, the, thedictatorship of relativism
speech.

Speaker 3 (01:35:27):
Oh, is that when he gave it?

Speaker 2 (01:35:29):
Yeah, yeah.
So so that's when you're goingto get some of these cool.
You know leaks, but there it'sfine because it's not.
It's not under the the lock andit's not under the seal.
Yeah, seal, that's it.
Yeah, thank you.
So so, yeah, no, it's gonna be,I don't know, it's gonna be
okay, so wait, they give thosespeeches to the other cardinals
before they're in conclave,right?

(01:35:49):
oh, some of them, right.
So there's these sort ofopening ones, like, I believe,
because, if memory serves,benedict was the Carmelengo for
JP2, right, so in that role, sothen Feral, I guess, would be
the one who great you know oneof the nephews.

Speaker 3 (01:36:08):
It would actually be Tuco though as the CDF.

Speaker 2 (01:36:13):
But again, I don't know't know if again so, then my
question is I don't know ifbenedict was performing that as
the cdf guy, or was heperforming that as the camera um
no, the uh, cardinal eduardomartinez samalo was the
carmelingo.

Speaker 1 (01:36:25):
Okay, at the end of jp2 okay, okay, interesting, hey
, interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:36:30):
Did you notice how under Francis, francis always
wore the white and everythingwas kind of simple with
vestments, but the second hedied.
You even see.
Cardinal.
Farrell decked out in hisregalia.
Do you think we'll have a bitof a return?
Because I think deep down thoseguys are all gay and they like
getting all dressed up.
Well no, listen.

(01:36:52):
Listen, though, I remember whenI started, when I was in rome
for a semester, those boys theylove, like when you got to be a
monsignor, you got the nice,like you know, the tubing.
They were all into that stuff.
So and even the straight guyshonestly like they like yeah,
well, you see.
You see what trash is theladies exactly it's your
signifier.
Yeah, they, they, they like thereality of it.
You know, and that's the thingyou are talking about Princes of

(01:37:14):
the church Like you're, theFrancis really took that, that
dignity away in some ways.
You know where these positions?
I think that's another reasonyou might have these guys saying
no, no, no, we want to bringthe dignity of the church back,
like these guys really do.
Like being the guest of honor,you know, you talk about France,
jesus talking to the Pharisees.

(01:37:35):
It's like, oh well, I must havethe highest seat of honor.
These men are Pharisees, dude.

Speaker 1 (01:37:39):
Yeah, I mean they're princes of the church and
princes generally like to betreated as princes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:37:47):
But it's it's.
Look, the thing is, it's onething if you're being a prince
of the church to represent JesusChrist.
It's another thing if you'rebeing a prince of the church
because you yourself want to bethe one who is adored, right?
So I really see these men asPharisees and I think they love
having the seat of honor whenthey go to places.
And I mean, you really have tothink of it like that.

Speaker 1 (01:38:07):
I think that's probably been true of the
College of Cardinals since itsinception.

Speaker 3 (01:38:10):
Oh, of course.

Speaker 1 (01:38:11):
The difference being that even then they probably
still did believe in God,whereas now they just don't.

Speaker 2 (01:38:19):
But, yeah, yeah, the crop of men that have been
elevated man.
Some of them are very dark,that's all I'm saying.
I'm not saying all of them, butsome of them are very dark Whoa
, whoa, whoa, not cool.
We don't see color, anthony.
Yeah, what have I done it,anthony?
What have I done to create?

Speaker 3 (01:38:39):
the divisions and exacerbate this.

Speaker 2 (01:38:40):
I mean to create the divisions in the church.
It's.
It's like come on, matt, knockit off.

Speaker 3 (01:38:46):
It's not you.
That's all I care about.
It's like, it's not you.
Not you, be yourself like whoabout it's not?

Speaker 2 (01:38:50):
you Be yourself who talks like that.
Knock it off, man, just be you,get on.
I don't know you guys are inCatholic media space here.
I'm sorry, but why does thatstuff work?
I think there's a segment ofCatholics.

Speaker 1 (01:39:10):
Is it to spell?

Speaker 2 (01:39:11):
It is maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:39:12):
There's a segment of catholic spell.

Speaker 2 (01:39:13):
It is maybe, but I think there's a there's a
segment of catholics who, likeyou know, they think it's
uncharitable, like we're gonnaget blowback.

Speaker 1 (01:39:19):
If it wasn't locals, we would get blowback for this
right you know what trads weartweed, right, that's true
expected of you yeah, here's thething.

Speaker 2 (01:39:31):
If you okay, if you met me outside of this.
Yeah, you're meeting me, likethis is right.

Speaker 4 (01:39:37):
I'm not presenting some fake version of myself it's
totally right and I, if I thatwould not surprise me at all.

Speaker 2 (01:39:43):
Yeah, like, if I say something, I I'm, I mean it,
like I'm not.
I'm not putting on an act foranybody.
And the guys that do that, Ithink they're trying to fake
piety.
I think that's what it is.
They want people to thinkthey're holy, whereas I said to
Rob from the first day westarted this, I don't want to

(01:40:05):
present myself as some rolemodel of holiness.

Speaker 1 (01:40:08):
It's why we don't begin or end in prayer.

Speaker 2 (01:40:13):
Yes, because my mom actually used to say she's's
like, why don't you start yourshow with a prayer?
It's like because I think itwould kind of just be
disingenuous, like I don't wantto, because I don't pray enough
in my daily life.

Speaker 1 (01:40:22):
So why should?
I do it on this show like comeon.

Speaker 2 (01:40:26):
It would be fake.
It really would be.
Yeah, yeah that's, that's right, it's just it's ingenuous, so
it's like I want to just come onand be myself.
So this way here, people see,see my mistakes, so that, like
they see my fault, so that likeI'm not ever held to a standard
I am not capable of reaching.
You know, because I'll tell you, the guys who put that air on,

(01:40:46):
they're the snipiest behind thescenes man for real they're the,
they're the.
They're the little terrors andmonsters behind the scenes.
And I'm not talking about Matthere, I'm just saying in general
, like the people that put thatair of holiness on, I bet you
they're the ones that are mostdifficult behind the scenes.
How hard do you think, how hardis it to you?

(01:41:10):
Know, like, keep a sense ofpersonal authenticity.
You know when you're in this,you know when you're doing this
kind of thing, like how is it,how easy is it to sort of start
acting?
Well, the thing is,authenticity is not a virtue,
right, good point, it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:41:27):
So it's not like, like being authentic is a virtue
in itself there are times, inan attempt to be authentic, you
could be inauthentic yeah, kayla, you talk about this, the
carefully curated profilicity,right?

Speaker 2 (01:41:43):
like?
Yeah, yeah, it's a, it's a realthing, right?
So, even like my twitterprofile, like I'm putting out a
digital version of myself that Iwant people to see and I have a
little bit of fun with it and Igoof around with it but there
is every.
You know every one of us aredoing that.
We.
We have a.
We carefully curate what wewant the public to see in our

(01:42:03):
digital avatar.
So even this is a digitalavatar.
So I've shared too much on thisshow personally.
You know, like in my personallife, I've gone too far, so
maybe that I'll back off on sure?
well, I think that's I thinkthat's I remember reading.
Uh, you all know who maryharrington is.

(01:42:23):
She's a british.
Yeah, she talks about that likelike, she calls it digital
modesty.
You know's basically like Idon't talk about my kids, I
don't talk about my husband, Idon't share anything unless I
have had a conversation withthem first.
It's just sort of like thesesort of firewalls that she Well,

(01:42:44):
the thing is Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:42:45):
So I stopped sharing photos of my family on Twitter
because of that, especially whenyou have a sock puppet account
that you switch then to adifferent person and then
someone goes through your pasttweets from four years ago and
sees pictures of you and yourwife and your kids, the uh.

Speaker 2 (01:43:02):
The reason, though, is because, as you grow as a
channel, people will use your,your um, whatever your
vulnerabilities are, against you.
Yeah Right, so I will stilltell personal stories on this
side.
When we go to locals, I figurethe people that are here pay to
see us Like they care about us.
They're not just some randomthat's going to see me on

(01:43:25):
YouTube, so the people that seeus behind this paywall I will
share.
So when in locals never postpics of your kids, ever just
post your home address, likeanthony so you, I'll share
things on this side that I'vefound um, help me with my kids

(01:43:47):
or help me in my marriage.
So I'll tell personal stories,maybe how my dad raised me and
something like I picked up fromwhen my dad raised me, things
like that.
But I won't.
I won't do that publiclyanymore because I I've seen what
people do to guys who do thatyou share too much.
That's a vulnerability and thenpeople will use that thing that
you care about against you.
Yeah, yeah, I just, I see I seeguys really getting into their

(01:44:14):
character, you know, like almostlike a professional wrestler
gets into their character, youknow, and it's sort of like
doubles and triples down on theGordon does that a little bit.
Yes, okay, full disclosure.
Yes, that's a.
You know, that must be a realtemptation because the shtick
works on some level, right.

(01:44:35):
So I'm thinking of Fred, right,and Matt's got a good thing
going.
I mean, it's his livelihood, hemakes his living doing it, and
I never begrudge a man I reallydon't begrudge a man doing that
Like.
However, you make it work, youknow.
But I always just sort ofwonder how, like, how do you
hold on to the thread?

(01:44:56):
It's a look.
So me and rob have talked aboutthis like being we talk about it
all the time.
Yeah, being a professionalcatholic is very dangerous man.
Yeah, it's like super dangerous.
So, like what, what rob I do?
We actually had a like a reallylong talk about.
Do we really want the channelto grow like that?
You know, and the thing is now,I think I'm pretty comfortable

(01:45:20):
with the size of our audienceright now.
Um, because you get audiencecapture pretty damn quick, yeah.
And next thing, you know, yousee people in the comments
complaining about something andyou're like Ooh, I better not
touch that topic again, again,because that's going to upset
people.
But where we are now, it's likethe people that, like us, have
been watching us for a littlewhile.
We might get some new viewershere and there, but they know
what to expect when they gethere.
But to be a professionalCatholic, once you become

(01:45:42):
dependent on that income, nowyou're looking for advertisers
that don't want you to say thething that you really think.
That's what I think is happeningwith all of these Catholic
commentators Like they're.
They're not allowed to say whatthey really believe because
they're beholden to money.
Yeah, you know, and I see this,and again, I know this is a
sort of a private thing, youknow that we got here, but I see

(01:46:04):
this with, just, you know, Iwork at a Catholic school, you
know, and, and I'm just, I'mjust a teacher now.
I used to be an administrator,and so when I was an
administrator, I had to be supercareful about everything, Right
, and so if you look at myTwitter feed, you know, you know
, you know exactly when Istopped being an administrator
cause I started saying things, Iactually thought right, and you

(01:46:27):
know, so I was.
I was a lurker for a decade anda half, you know, before I
started.
Yeah you still have to becareful, though, because if
something goes viral, like ifsomething goes, and you never
know what's going to go viral.
And.
I've gotten.
I mean, during the summer,Baseball hat Right.
The baseball hat.

Speaker 3 (01:46:45):
Baseball hat to millions bro.

Speaker 2 (01:46:47):
Yeah, yeah, crazy.
Yeah, yeah, crazy.
No, but like I, I during thewhole floyd stuff, the summer of
floyd and the whole crazinessduring covid, I got turned in
three different times, wow, bycolleagues who wanted me fired
well, I mean, that was, that wasthe event that got gordon fired
right right, yeah, and so,similarly, I I was a couple

(01:47:07):
people made a run.
My what I got turned in for washilarious, like, and so in my
and my boss basically told himto go fly a kite, you know.
So it was fine, but you know,like that was pretty crazy and
it was actually pretty tepidstuff to be honest with you but,
but, but even, even likeworking within a Catholic
institution, and some of this isgenerational.

(01:47:31):
But the older folks, like theboomers, they don't understand
the idea of a loyal criticism, aloyal opposition.
If I even breathe in the wrongway about Francis, there are
some people who'd be like, well,you can't say that I'm like

(01:47:54):
what we read, dante, can I?

Speaker 1 (01:47:57):
can I put Celestine in hell, right?

Speaker 2 (01:48:00):
Right, right, can.
Can we do?
Like Boniface is in hell,celestine's like can we talk
about?
So it's just such a weird.
It's so weird.
That's why I'm specificallyasking this in the context of
because I never put myselfforward like when my YouTube
stuff.
I never put my stuff forward aslike a Catholic thing.

(01:48:20):
You know, people know I'mCatholic, obviously, you know,
and I do talk, but that's neverbeen.
I've been.
That's the one thing that I'vebeen super careful about is not
putting myself forward in thatway.
Yeah, no, you're talking abouta lot of times it's poetry and
you know different things likethat.
So for me it's really you knowa lot of ideas, I have a lot of

(01:48:45):
freedom because I workconstruction for my own.
Yeah, it's like there's nothing, I don't care what the hell I
say.
It's like you're not getting mefired, it's just it's never
going to happen.

Speaker 1 (01:48:52):
So my I do worry.
You look at your iPad whileyou're driving.

Speaker 2 (01:48:57):
That's that I'll get fired for.
That I'll get fired for forbeing driving a truck right
being on Twitter with the camerain the truck?

Speaker 1 (01:49:04):
Yeah, Truck on twitter.
So that's um, but rob I worryabout because rob has a civvy
job.

Speaker 2 (01:49:15):
It's like you know you gotta be.
I'm literally in charge of hr,right, right, wow.
So yeah, it's a dangerous thingbeing online man.
It's like it's kind of fun.

Speaker 1 (01:49:22):
I'm not gonna lie, it's kind of fun that risk, that
level of risk there makes itinteresting, right yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:49:27):
like.
I don't like roller coasters,but I like this, this tweet.
This tweet might get me fired,let's do it.
But I had that silly tweetwhere I just posted burke and
sarah walking and I said pray itwasn't even your video I know,
I know, I know it's crazy dude.
It's got 9.5 million views onit right now.
The original guy who posted ithas like 400 000 on it I have my

(01:49:51):
easter.
Felice navidad tweet wentnowhere.
Nowhere.
You never know what.
These stupid tweets, what'sgonna?
Take off.
You know the hat I mean the hatanthony, like what the hell.
It's just so weird what peopleget picked up what.
What picks up for me with thatstupid tweet with the two
cardinals was it went into someweird place that wasn't even

(01:50:12):
Catholic and people just talkingabout the Riz and like they got
aura and things like that itwas just like I've never seen
any of these people beforethey're not anybody, I know,
they're just in this weirdsubculture on Twitter that I'd
never seen before.
It was like you just don't knowwhat the algorithm is going to
push out there.
Man, have y'all ever messedwith TikTok?

(01:50:33):
Rob's supposed to, but Rob, Rob, TikTok is hilarious.

Speaker 1 (01:50:36):
I don't understand how.

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
One time I went on and I said something super
innocuous but it was somethingabout the Signal Gate thing with
Hank Seth and all that kind ofcrap.
I'm not exactly Mr Super Trumpguy, whatever, but it was like
something about the signal gatething with like and all that
kind of crap.
And you know what I mean.
Like, I'm not exactly like MrSuper Trump guy, like, like
whatever, like you know.
And I just said it says I wenton just as an experiment.
I said, yeah, like this wholesignal thing it's like, it's

(01:51:05):
just really not a big deal.
It blew up and it is such afemale heavy space oh for sure
that even like the smallest.
And I said something about Tateand I wasn't even like, as you
guys know, I am not a pro-Tateguy, but I said hey, maybe we

(01:51:25):
should care about what the boysthink the hate.

Speaker 1 (01:51:31):
Even the men on there are so feminine oh, because
they're all.

Speaker 2 (01:51:34):
They're all, they're all part of the long.
It's it.
That is the long house.
Tiktok is the long house, youknow but what's cool about it?
Put on tiktok.
No, no, but.
But I'll tell you guys thisthere that I mean, if you want
to see this with sort of likemission field, there are bros on
TikTok who are dying to havesome kind of manly content on

(01:51:56):
there and it doesn't have to beTim Gordon, chest up and you
know, you know, if you don't dotwo plates you suck kind of
garbage.
I mean just basic, basic.
You know, like, hey, guys, likewe care about you, like be a
man, like live up, guys, we careabout you Be a man, live up to
your responsibility.
I've had so many people reachout to me privately and tell me

(01:52:18):
I can't tell you how refreshingit is to see two men just
talking Like presenting, withoutthe LARP, without the tweed and
the cigars or the Rob Smokecigars, but like the pipes yeah,
I've had so many.
I'm only drinking wine because Iget it.
Yeah, the tweed and the cigarsor the rob smoke cigars, but
like the pipes and the yeah,like I've had so many wine
because I get it.

Speaker 1 (01:52:35):
Yeah, yeah on the on the yeah but yeah, it's just
it's.

Speaker 2 (01:52:40):
There are so many people faking it out there that
I think people do just enjoy,rob and I, just our authenticity
, you know.
But we're also not a big showit's, you know, we're, we're at
a very comfortable look.
Rob and I are at a size nowwhere it's like, okay, we make
enough, where it makes it worthdoing it Right.
So we spend four hours a weekdoing this and it's like, okay,

(01:53:04):
it's not taking too much of ourtime and we are making a little
bit of money doing it now and westill both have to work our
regular jobs.
But it's, it's a it's a reallynice gig now and you enjoy it
right, I mean love it.

Speaker 3 (01:53:15):
You enjoy, right, that that's love it.

Speaker 2 (01:53:16):
That's the thing.
Yeah, yeah, right, right, thinkabout how much fun we had
tonight, like, yeah, like, andand listen, I, I did four shows
today.
Yeah, before before we came on,I was like oof, I can't believe
I'm about to do another one.
But the second we we get on, Istart having fun.
It's like, dude, two hours wentby.
That felt like 20 minutes.
That's when you know you had agood show.
Is when two hours flies by.

(01:53:37):
There's times where I'm lookingat the clock on.
Do we have enough to cover this?
Yeah, can we get to an hour?
That's the show is where youknow.
It's like, ooh, that's a roughone.

Speaker 1 (01:53:53):
You know it's like, oh, that's a rough one, you know
so but it's like when two hoursgoes by like this and I do have
to get some sleep now.

Speaker 3 (01:53:59):
Same thing, son of a.

Speaker 2 (01:53:59):
Really wait, rob.
How are these guys sitting outthere?
It's in locals, okay it's inlocals.
Yeah, the thing that is thecool thing about locals that you
you can put pictures at Locals.
I wish YouTube had that Me too,but it must just get so abused.

Speaker 1 (01:54:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:54:16):
It must get the porn spammed.
That's true.
Yeah, the thing that sucksabout Locals is you can't just
highlight the comments WithYouTube you can highlight the
comment on screen.
You have to show the wholething.
That makes us small.

Speaker 1 (01:54:29):
Did you know Anthony did four shows today?
I had no idea Anthony did fourshows today.
I definitely didn't hearAnthony did four shows today.

Speaker 2 (01:54:33):
I didn't hear a thing .
You know, somebody was sayingthe other day that Substack is
going to run a Video, right,yeah, like they're going to
start a streaming.
So like that's something that Imight jump on, because I do
have an audience.
You already have a subscriberbase, yeah, so I think I might
do that.
So if I could do a kind of likea contained, like we do here

(01:54:55):
with local, like a containedthing, I might just do that and
see what happens.
That would be awesome, becausethey already allow audio
podcasts but people want videonow.
Yeah, of course, our audiopodcasts never do nearly as well
as our video podcasts.
It's just, even when I'm, whenI'm in my car, I have youtube on
my ipad and I'm driving withyoutube on.
I don't know why.

Speaker 1 (01:55:16):
It's like clipping this for anthony's uncle.
All right, we're gonna wrapthis up, kale.

Speaker 2 (01:55:21):
I always freaking have fun talking with you.

Speaker 3 (01:55:22):
Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 2 (01:55:23):
I really appreciate you guys, I really love you guys
have me and I appreciate it andflattered it's uh it's just
always such a different kind ofconversation, like it's never
the typical, like nobody else is.
Nobody else had theconversation we had today, you
know anthony and rob apparentlythe jupiter on the clovers man.
Oh my gosh cheese curds I likethe white beater.

(01:55:48):
Yeah, the greasy white beater,the greasy white beater oh my
god, that's so good.

Speaker 1 (01:55:56):
I'm putting that on Twitter.
Whoever sent that?

Speaker 2 (01:55:59):
That's a keeper, alright.
So, cal, maybe we'll do thisagain as the Conclave gets
closer, maybe after one of thosetalks Gets put out, or
something I would like to.
I definitely want to have agroup that we coordinate with,
so I want you to be in therotation as the weeks go by,

(01:56:20):
because I think the best way wecan all help each other is by
going on each other's shows andstuff and we're trying to build
the alt-Catholic media spaceBecause we're gatekept out of
catholic ink like we're nevergoing to be on frad.

Speaker 1 (01:56:34):
We're the woke right catholic I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:56:36):
I love it, that's right.
We should, we should totallyembrace it yeah the woke right,
totally just we are the wokeright catholic media.
We will keep.
We'll keep the jQ out of Kale'sthing, but y'all are terrible
alright we'll see you next timetake a nap, thank you.

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