September 5, 2025 • 58 mins
Charles Fraune takes us on a riveting journey into the supernatural battlefield where saints actively combat demonic forces during exorcisms. Drawing from extensive research and interviews with practicing exorcists, Fraune reveals that the Catholic tradition of invoking saints during exorcism rituals is far more than ceremonial—it's a tactical spiritual maneuver with profound effects.
The conversation illuminates how exorcists begin their work by praying the Litany of Saints, summoning spiritual reinforcements who manifest their presence in ways that terrify demons. While not typically visible to exorcists or possessed persons, these saints are immediately detected by demons, who react with unmistakable fear—screaming, identifying the saints with dismissive terms, and often revealing which heavenly intercessors they fear most.
Particularly fascinating is the concept of "nemesis relationships" between specific saints and demons. St. Joseph, bearing the title "Terror of Demons," sometimes appears wielding his staff during exorcisms, causing demonic entities to shriek in terror with each strike against the ground. Meanwhile, saints who conquered particular vices during their earthly lives become especially powerful against demons who tempt others toward those same sins—St. Mary Magdalene, for instance, being invoked against demons of impurity.
Fraune unpacks the theological understanding that demons hate humans partly because the elect will occupy the heavenly thrones forfeited by fallen angels. This explains why saints become such formidable weapons—they've already claimed these thrones of glory, making them untouchable to demonic powers. This cosmic reality shaped early Christian practice, as communities would bring saints' relics to areas dominated by pagan worship, causing oracles to fall silent and establishing new spiritual principalities under saintly protection.
For those confronting darkness or seeking deeper spiritual connection, Fraune offers practical wisdom about cultivating relationships with these heavenly allies. By rediscovering devotion to saints—not merely as historical figures but as active spiritual warriors—we access a dormant power within Catholic tradition that can transform our spiritual lives and communities.
Whether you're fascinated by supernatural phenomena, seeking to understand Catholic spiritual warfare practices, or simply hungry for authentic transcendence in a materialistic world, this conversation offers profound insights into the ongoing battle between light and darkness—and the glorious company of saints fighting alongside us.
Purchase the book at: https://www.amazon.com/Most-Powerful-Saints-Exorcisms-Exorcists/dp/B0DSHG1D22/
Take advantage of Recusant Cellar's "Christ the King" sale by heading over to https://recusantcellars.com/ and using code "REXCAELORUM" for 20% off at checkout!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Once again, ai should assist and not replace human
beings.
When I'm traveling and don'thave access to my studio and I
need to add a voiceover tosomething that I've previously
recorded, I'll have our editoruse an AI clone, which is a
little scary, as he can make meappear to say just about
anything.
He could even make mecompliment those unfunny idiots
at avoiding Babylon.
Seriously, I cannot believe howobnoxious Anthony is and, trust
(00:35):
me, behind the scenes, rob isno better.
The only decent one is theirintro guy, taffy.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Crap.
I chose the wrong one.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Chose the wrong one, hold on, hold on everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Do the other one Crap .
I chose the wrong one, chosethe wrong one.
Hold on, hold on everyone.
Do the other one, come on.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Trent's going to watch the beginning of this too.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I know, I know.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Butchered it.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
There's one.
I got to be careful not to do,though.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Yes, there's one you can't play, but redo that.
I can't believe you blew thatintro.
Trust me no trust me, no one'smore mad than I believe.
You blew that intro.
Hold on just everyone.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Pretend like the beginning of it too don't make
everybody sit through the stupidsong.
Well, I can't.
That's hard to do.
Hold on everyone.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Hold tight, pretend this didn't happen meanwhile,
poor rob just heard me blow mylid off in the green room.
Uh, you know what?
Tonight's I'm gonna tell youguys, tonight's local show is
going to be a good one, becauseI have a lot of pent up
frustration and anger with mypeers in the Catholic, in the
(01:33):
Catholic commentariat.
I'm just like.
I'm just like some of thesepeople are just so pompous, man,
they're just so arrogant andpompous and I'm just getting
tired of it.
So you guys will hear me rantand rave over.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Okay, okay, we'll redo it.
Let's pretend, let's go.
This didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Once again, ai should assist and not replace human
beings.
When I'm traveling and don'thave access to my studio and I
need to add a voiceover tosomething that I've previously
recorded, I'll have our editoruse an AI clone, which is a
little scary, as he can make meappear to say just about
anything.
He could even make mecompliment those unfunny retards
at avoiding Babylon.
(02:31):
Seriously, I cannot believe howobnoxious Anthony is and, trust
me, behind the scenes, rob isno better.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
We got that was worth it.
Yeah, we got trying to sayretards.
Let me tell you something Idon't know if he wants me to say
this.
We're not playing that one.
We have taken shots at Trent onthis show, but I still have a
very good relationship withTrent.
I always respect someone whocan take a shot or two and have
(03:02):
a good enough relationship thatI sent him that video.
I was like, okay, with this onecoming.
I was like, yeah, I don't care,he's happy.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
He actually sent trent a really really good one
too I did send that one.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
I don't think he was a fan trent.
Trent's a good sport man.
I do like him, um yeah, no this.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
He's not the person I'm.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Uh 15 minutes late well, okay, the 15 minutes late.
I had a 10 o'clock start inStaten Island today and I didn't
get home until I walked in mydoor at 7.30.
I had to jump in the shower.
My wife made an amazing cornchowder and I tried to slam that
down real quick so I just toldRob it was going to be a few
minutes late.
It was all on me tonight, notrob, but um, so, um, yeah,
(03:49):
there's uh man, we'll talk aboutthat on locals because I, I
just I'm getting fed up withpeople, um, and I will name
you're about to pull me onsomeone yeah, it's getting that
bad, but it's just, it's justblatant disrespect.
Um, but whatever, we'll do thatlater.
Um, so michael knowles was ontucker carlson and there's two
ways we could go about this,because well, first off already
(04:12):
when's it coming on uh 8, 30,and he can only stay till till
nine, so he's gonna be on for 10minutes so we got like 13
minutes to kind of just discussthe michael knowles thing.
I got two clips we're gonna play.
Um, we're gonna do the goodtonight.
Like there, I got two clipswe're going to play, we're going
to do the good tonight.
There's two segments that Iwanted to play that are pretty
good tonight, because I did sendMichael an invite and I hope he
(04:36):
responds.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
This has absolutely nothing to do with the previous
comment about pompous andarrogant assholes.
No, it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
It doesn't yet.
Yeah, because Michael Knowleshe was just on Tucker Carlson
comment about pompous andarrogant ass.
No, it doesn't, it doesn't yet,it doesn't yet.
Yeah, michael knows, it wasjust on tucker calls.
You deal with us.
I'm talking about people on ourlevel, like there's a.
There's a difference.
You know, when somebody's onyour level and and they're
acting that way, like I get it.
Michael michael's in adifferent stratosphere than us.
(05:02):
But there's some really goodstuff in this interview with
Tucker Carlson.
I do think it was one of thebetter Catholic interviews that
Tucker has had.
Michael kept bringing it backto Catholicism.
He did way better than BishopBarron.
And then there's like a10-minute segment that I think
everybody that heard is like oof, all right, but I get it
(05:24):
because I mean you're on a,you're having a conversation
with somebody that's notCatholic and I get the um, the
difficulty in um, like some,some Catholic teaching is
difficult, right, I dealt withthis when I was talking with my
in-laws and the way I learnedthat you you deal with it is go
(05:44):
look, this is not me, uh, doingthis.
Um, oh yeah, he says he neverchecks those.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
But come on I mean I, margo, did give me his
assistant's email.
Listen to me every.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
You make it like he doesn't see his dms.
Everybody sees it.
He told the story on tuckerabout how he dm'd um norm
mcdonald.
Like everybody checks their dmsstop it, come on, he doesn't
have them open, he only followsa couple thousand people.
You say like I've I followedaround 2 000 people.
I get a few enough dms that I'mable to check my dms.
(06:17):
Come on, that's an excuse thatpeople come up with so that they
could get away with pretendingthey didn't see what you wrote.
Everybody sees their DMs.
I guarantee you if somebodyimportant DMs Michael Knowles,
he's going to respond to it.
It's a silly thing to say hedoesn't see it.
If he didn't follow me.
That's different, because thenit goes into that back folder.
But he follows me.
So yeah, the tricky part, likehaving those hard conversations,
(06:44):
I've found the best way to goabout them is to just say look,
I'm going to give you what thechurch teaches and, like I'm a
loyal son of the church, theseare things that are difficult,
that I don't have any controlover.
I can't tell the church toteach something different, but
this is what the church teaches.
If you want me to tell you whatthe teaching is, I will and
that's how I've gone about it inmy experience to you know,
(07:06):
people still get a little hotand heated because they're like
oh, so you're saying I'm goingto hell.
It's like no, I'm not sayingyou're going to hell.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
The church is saying you're going to hell.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
The church is teaching and I just am Catholic
and I'm not going to not beCatholic because I don't.
You know, I think it's meanbecause I I think that is one of
the difficult things abouthaving conversations in modern
culture is you can't be mean topeople, right?
So I mean.
But I also know that I was juston with uh nova sort of watch,
(07:34):
and people were critiquing thatconversation because they
weren't pushing on me hard.
So, like when you're in afriendly conversation, you don't
want to bring something toocontentious up and make it
unawkward and make it awkwardand things like that.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
So I watched, uh, kevin's response to yesterday.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
That was good yeah, oh right, it was very good.
Yeah, kevin, kevin did aresponse video and I'll be
honest, I haven't watched theactual conversation, yet I
really I'm dude, I really Ithink I think I was awesome guy
he's just like a genuinely niceguy, so I I really do like him,
um, but okay, so why don't wejump into the first clip I put
in there, rob?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
before we do that, I just want to, um, bring up the
the shirts again.
So I actually got one of my oneof the protect catholic kids
shirt on our store.
So, uh, I think I put it in theit's in the description of the
video.
But, um, for those of you whodon't know, we created a Protect
(08:28):
Catholic Kids shirt with thehelp of what's his name, keith,
keith Nestor.
That guy and all the proceedsfrom sales of these shirts go
towards the Annunciation Fundfor Hope and Healing.
Or, basically, it goes to theparish and kids that were
affected by the shooting at theAnnunciation uh fund for hope
and healing.
Or, basically, it goes to theparish and kids that were
affected by the shooting at theannunciation hey, and now we're
(08:51):
not.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah, we're not getting anything from that.
So if you guys want to actuallysupport the show, buy one of
the other shirts.
I'm just saying rob's alwaysnot wrong people.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, he's not gonna support us buy something else,
yeah we actually make money onyeah, yeah, so we have other
shirts on here too that weactually make money from.
Yeah, but no money from thesewill go to us.
It goes directly to to thefamilies and so far we've sold
like 80 shirts for uh for an 800worth of donation so far you
guys really do step up whenthere's a good cause at hand.
(09:21):
Uh, but you know, joe, I thinkthey, I think they do.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I can't say for sure, but I think they do the new
merch store is on point likepeople are getting their stuff
now I got.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
I ordered this what today's, what thursday?
I think I ordered it lastfriday or monday.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
So yeah, the new merch store is on point, so if
you guys order stuff, you'regoing to get it.
The last one was like peoplewere waiting months and didn't
come through.
I'm like very good job pickingthat new store.
So, um, all right, let's jumpinto it, cause we we do have
Charles frown coming on in 10minutes.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
So which one am I picking here?
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Uh, the first one I put in um is why Gen Z is
becoming Catholic.
Okay, we'll, we'll do thewebsite after.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Molly Molly, look in the description of the YouTube
video.
It is in the description.
Speaker 6 (10:14):
Okay, here we go instinct has been for the last
few years that physical realitydoes really matter, even as I
feel like I've had a heightenedspiritual awareness and the dead
, certain knowledge that thereis a spiritual, an unseen realm
that is acting on us all thetime and that that's as real as
anything.
I sincerely believe that, buton the other hand, I do see a
(10:37):
lot of like ignoring of thephysical reality around us.
Speaker 7 (10:42):
Yeah, this is why, by the way, you know like
everyone's becoming Catholic now.
You've noticed a strangephenomenon.
Yes, I think this is a bigreason why it's people.
The decline of religion hastapered off.
Other denominations andtraditions are growing, but
Catholicism in particular isexploding.
Why?
I think it's because it's asacramental theology I never
(11:04):
would have called that, isn't it?
Yeah, 20 years ago, could youimagine?
Speaker 6 (11:07):
At all, certainly not .
No, the spotlight series hadjust come out and you're just
like.
This church is too corrupt tocontinue and I'm not.
Speaker 7 (11:15):
I just want to say again I'm not Catholic, but I
strongly agree that there's arevival and I just see it all
around me and I think this iswhy, you know, I mean, the words
of the sacrifice of the massare this is my body, which will
be given up for you, you know,and which is mocked, you know.
The phrase hocus pocus, like inmagic, is a mockery of hocus
danum corpus meum.
(11:36):
This is my body, you know.
Yeah, it's a kind of a hocuscorpus, hocus pocus At least
that's a popular etymology andI'm persuaded by it.
So there's always this mockeryin all of the kind of false
religions, there's always thismockery of the real sacrifice.
But in a lot of religioustraditions and I don't cast
aspersions, I had a Baptistgrandpa, you know, the Knowleses
(11:58):
come from Maine.
Actually, this is the ancestralhomeland of the Knowleses.
Amazing, yes, yeah, theancestral homeland of the
Knowleses.
Amazing, yes, yeah, I haven'tmade it up very often but a lot
of Puritan in the wood.
Speaker 6 (12:07):
A lot of us had ancestors in Maine and it's you
know they left.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
The whole interview was kind of like this, where
pretty much everything Tuckerwould bring up, michael would
bring it back to these littlethings about Catholicism.
And another really good quotehe got was from Fulton Sheen,
where Fulton Sheen said if youwed yourself to the age, you
(12:33):
will become a widow in the next.
And it was just like that iswhat the church did in the 60s.
They wed themselves to the ageof the revolution and now the
church is a widow, essentially.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I saw a quote today on Twitter.
I forget who it was from.
The quote itself wasChesterston, and he said
something to the effect of thesaint that converts the age is
the saint that is most unlike it.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah, or something along those, yeah, yeah, it's,
it's, we've talked about thattoo.
How, like, how, how the thefool can like point out the
absurdity of things going on.
You know, like, we talked aboutlike, like, uh, with saint
francis and stuff.
But, uh, pull up ally beth,stuck, stuck, stuck.
These tweet.
I dislike her.
I do too.
That's why I want to bring upher tweet.
(13:24):
Um, she wrote the popularnarrative.
So this is solely because shewatched knolls on tucker.
Um, the popular narrative isthat catholicism is booming, but
this is not true.
According to pew, for every oneperson joining the church,
eight people are leaving.
This is worsened since 2014,when every one person that
joined, six people left.
This study has been cited bythe catholic sources, too, who,
(13:45):
who are willing to honestly facethe position the catholic
church is now in.
So she goes on and on.
She starts citing the pew study, but she actually cites salmons
without name yeah, but but seehow she framed it.
the popular narrative is thatcatholicism is booming, but
that's not actually thenarrative that we all are aware.
The church is in decline, weknow parishes are closing and
(14:07):
everything is in decline.
The narrative is that Gen Z,when they find faith, they're
not going to Protestantism, theyare going to ancient
Christianity, whether that'sEastern Orthodoxy or if that's
Catholicism.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
And largely, when someone leaves the church,
they're not going toProtestantism, they're going to
nothing.
They're going to nothing andthey're not actually leaving the
church.
They haven't been at the churchin years.
They're just now notidentifying as Catholic, that's
all.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
So so.
So Allie is correct aboutpeople leaving the church, but I
but the narrative that she'strying to frame.
That as that's not thenarrative and that's not
whatucker and michael weretalking about.
They were talking about gen zcoming into the church and the
thing is, protestant gen z is inthis technological realm where
everything is fake, everything,and they're looking for
(14:57):
something deeper andtranscendent and they're just
not getting it at theseprotestant services with these
preachers making these big youyou know whatever, these big
shows of their church servicesand things like that.
So what they're doing isthey're going to find something
transcendent and you do not findthat transcendence in
(15:19):
Protestantism, you only find itin traditional Catholicism and
Eastern Orthodoxy.
And that really is theconversation going on in the
culture.
I mean, andrew Wilson has beengoing on Crowder's show, so he's
been talking to whatever theproducer over there's name.
Tim Gordon's going to go onthat show too to discuss the
Catholic position, but he'stalking about icons and the
(15:40):
guy's like Gerald is an idiot.
Gerald is an idiot, but Geraldis like.
I knew that when I actuallylike crowder, even gerald is
like um, one place you guys loseme is on icon veneration and
it's like but gerald is thinkingabout these things, right, and
he understands.
Like protestantism is silly.
He's just still hung up onthose protestant attachments
where they think that's idolatry, right.
(16:02):
But but he, he's.
He's in a place where he'sgoing to be swung by the
argument we're going to keepCharles in the green room for
another two minutes.
I want to play the other clipbefore we bring him on.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Get over to that real quick here.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
So this one is Tucker .
It's really a Tucker clip, himexplaining to Michael his
feelings about Pope Francis, andit's just interesting because
it kind of shows up like one ofthe main things we've talked
about on this show.
Speaker 6 (16:34):
Yep, yeah, the best thing I ever heard from a
practicing Catholic in the lastfive years was no one around is
a very close friend of mine andhe was going on about
Catholicism.
I was like, okay, okay, butthat pope is just, I just can't.
I won't even tell you what Isaid, but it was hostile because
that's how I felt.
And he goes, are you sure?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
you're not catholic no, it was the greatest thing
ever he goes.
Speaker 6 (17:00):
Yeah, I totally agree , but he's not the worst pope
we've had.
Yes, was it completelynon-defensive?
This happens.
Speaker 7 (17:07):
It's like.
Let me tell you about the 9thcentury.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
I think that's right.
If you want to win people over,don't be defensive.
Yes, totally Don't tell me thatthere's no, that what I'm
seeing isn't real.
Yeah, yeah, be honest, ofcourse.
Of course I mean it is Okay,but I don't know that.
I've talked to too manyCatholics about Catholicism.
Maybe they all feel that way,but I thought that was just a
wonderful response.
Speaker 7 (17:29):
Totally, you know.
We have to remember that thePope is.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
This was the thing that kind of jumped our show off
with the Lofton thing, becauseLofton was criticizing me for
whatever he was and I said don'ttell me I'm not seeing what I'm
seeing, because what you'reasking me to do is on par with
like pretending a man is a woman.
That's the level of cognitivedissonance that's going on here.
Like I see what I see, I'm notcrazy, I know what I'm seeing,
(18:00):
and gaslighting people is nothelpful to the situation.
So your best bet is to actuallysay, yeah, all right, things
are a mess, but in reality Imean we've had popes in the past
that toasted the devil.
Like we've had popes that youknow had orgies with whatever.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Francis might still be the worst.
Yeah, he still might be theworst.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
But you know you don't hide from that stuff.
You just address it and you say, yeah, he's terrible.
What are you going to do?
You know it's still the churchLike.
The church isn't, isn'tchanging.
So all right, we're going to.
I meant to have a half an hourfor that conversation, but I do
think Michael did a good job.
I think there's probably onesegment that he's going to catch
(18:43):
criticism for, and that was theextra Ecclesiam Nullus Alice
portion and discussing VaticanII.
The funny thing is I almost ashe was saying it, I'm like I
sensed he didn't even believewhat he was saying, like he.
He knew what he was saying hewas going to catch grief for,
but he was just pitching thevatican two line yeah, the
(19:05):
company line basically companyline.
He was just pitching, but I feltthat he was saying it with
shame, like it was.
It wasn't nearly as bad asbaron telling shapiro that you
know, christ is the privilegedway.
It wasn't that bad, but he didwater down no salvation outside
(19:25):
the church but, in fairness, sodoes the entire hierarchy.
So, all right, we're going tobring Charles on.
It's been a while since wetalked with him.
Let's bring him on, charles,how are you brother?
Fellas good to see you again,Hello Were you able to hear us
while you're in the green room?
Yeah, unfortunately.
Speaker 8 (19:44):
Oh, all right, I was sitting there in silence.
I was ready for you how haveyou been?
Speaker 3 (19:51):
man, it was amusing.
Did you happen to catch thatinterview at all?
Speaker 8 (19:58):
No, I rarely have time to watch podcasts
unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I was gonna say you strike me as somebody who
doesn't like keep up with stufflike that and I kind of burnt
out on all the you know all thestuff going on in the church.
Speaker 8 (20:12):
Now I like to just research.
Uh, you know, pious the 12thand backwards, just to and
backwards that's a healthy wayto go about life.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
I would imagine it's like uh, it's good for your
spiritual life and your soul.
But, um, this, this most recentbook I thought was actually
really interesting, would you?
You went back and youresearched uh powerful saints in
exorcisms, what exorcists wantyou to know.
So this is basically uhdiscussing um some of the saints
that exorcists call upon intheir exorcisms.
Speaker 8 (20:43):
Yeah, it actually tackles so many issues, so many
traditional teachings that a lotof people are clueless on, like
merit, hierarchy in heaven,authority, patron saints,
liturgical feasts, so.
But yeah, so it was the.
I co-authored it with a friendof mine, patrick O'Hearn, so it
was his idea.
He's written a lot on saintsand I've Patrick O'Hearn, so it
was his idea.
He's written a lot on saintsand I've written a lot on
(21:05):
spiritual warfare, so he had theidea let's combine these two
things because this is a reality.
People who keep up withexorcists hear them talk about
these saints showing up and like, what does that mean exactly?
We talk about that showing upin exorcisms and that reality is
just amazing.
The exorcisms and that realityis just amazing.
The fact that the saints thatwe're so devoted to, that the
church depends on her liturgicalyear revolves around they're
(21:27):
active in this ministry.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
When you say they show up in exorcisms.
What do you mean by show up?
Speaker 8 (21:38):
Yeah, I think it's very important, one of the
things that we got clarified forourselves when we first started
doing the research interviewingthese exorcists.
One of the first things and Iwas kind of clueless with this,
it just glossed over in myresearch for a long time that
one of the first things theexorcist does in an exorcism is
pray the litany of the saints.
That's one of the very firstthings and there's a reason.
So they intercede, they show up, they're called upon
(21:59):
immediately.
So it's the practice of thechurch to call upon the saints
for exorcisms, for this wholework.
Then the showing up part is nota vision to the exorcist,
typically not a vision to thepossessed, though they can
sometimes detect something'shappening.
It's the demon.
The demon and the possessedperson sees the saint and cries
out it's a weapon.
(22:22):
The saint becomes a weapon,just like the sacramentals are
weapons.
The saint is there as a victor,a warrior, untouchable to the
demon, someone who's alreadyconquered the demon, is in
heaven and saved now.
But they'll appear somewhere inthe room sometimes and the
demon will scream and identify,never by the name but by some
(22:42):
kind of dismissive or belittling, like that bearded one for
Padre Pio, for example.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Yeah, what was that?
What was the most interestingstory you came across doing your
research?
Speaker 8 (22:54):
yeah, I would say well, there there are a lot, let
me pick one.
Well, one of the things thatwas really interesting is that a
lot, let me pick one.
Well, one of the things thatwas really interesting is that a
lot of the modern saints.
You know, surprise, surprise, alot of the modern saints are
the ones that are showing up themost.
And showing up means to answeryour question a little more.
Is they just their influence isfelt.
(23:17):
The exorcist may have a relic,there may be a connection.
We can talk about why you callupon certain ones, but when the
saint is named you see thereaction like, oh, that saint
somehow has a connection here.
That's how you know.
But I think one of the mostinteresting ones is probably St
Joseph, to pick from many, whichwas great.
You know, terror of demons.
(23:37):
Hopefully he's showing up Someof the saints you hope exorcists
are seeing.
They're not always seeing.
It's kind of up to God,obviously, who's going to show
up.
But Father Ripperker relayedthis one and we pulled that into
our book.
That St Joseph manifested.
I think the possessed personsaw him walking around carrying
a staff and smashing his staffon the ground repeatedly, and
(23:59):
every time he smashed his staffon the ground.
The demon and the person feltit would just, you know, shriek
with terror.
The surge of fear would just gothrough the demon and the
possessed person would feel itand then tell father what's
going on.
But I mean not just a subtle,not a subtle apparition of
apparition, but a subtleinterference intervention, but a
(24:20):
big one from, did you?
Speaker 3 (24:22):
did you interview um contemporary exorcists for the
book?
Speaker 8 (24:28):
we did, we um.
So we pulled from like videos,published articles, but then we
interviewed a lot of livingexorcists.
Some wanted to be anonymous,some were willing to be public.
But we also pulled from a bookthat I recently published.
I got to publish the Latin, theEnglish translation of the
Latin text for FlagellumDaemonum.
(24:48):
It's a 16th century spiritualwarfare and exorcism manual that
was popular for 300 years allthroughout Europe.
It's called the Scourge ofDemons in English and Father
Menji, he was the father of theexorcist art.
So we pulled from that bookbecause he talks about this
happening.
One of the things he instructsexorcists to do is to ask the
demon who the primary saint isthat he fears the most.
(25:12):
And the demon has to, you know,eventually, under pressure,
reveal that name and then theexorcist uses that name, that
saint against that demon.
So this idea of like thenemesis, that certain saints are
pitted against certain demons,has been around for at least 500
years.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Yeah.
So he's asking if St MaryMagdalene comes up.
Speaker 8 (25:34):
Yeah, she has.
Again, we interviewed, we hadthe count.
Let's say we interviewed likeseven exorcists or pulled from
seven or eight exorcists, maybenine.
That's a small sample and Ithink if we were able to
interview all of them we'd findso many stories, because one
exorcist would have thesestories but not this saint.
The other exorcist would havethese other saints.
There was not a lot.
(25:55):
There were some commonalitiesbut a lot of differences.
So St Mary Magdalene has shownup or been utilized, been called
upon for issues where thepossession case has to do with
impurity, with sexual sins, andthat's that patron saint.
There's that quality, thataspect.
If that saint conquered thevice that got this person in
(26:17):
trouble, then you call upon thatsaint and there's a great
efficacy there.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
You said that it seems like some saints are
pitted against certain demonsthat have been, like you said,
sometimes for centuries.
Is there a specific reason forthat, and does it have anything
to do with that saint takingthat demon's angelic throne in
heaven?
Oh, that's a good question.
Speaker 8 (26:42):
Yeah, demons, angelic throne in heaven?
Oh, that's a good question,yeah, so as I talk um, I don't
know if we talked about slayingdragons, but just a little
little plug in slaying dragons,this is the first book that
really got me started um,interviewing a bunch of
exorcists, compilation theteachings of exorcists.
There is that that point beingmade.
We talk about it in the mostpowerful saints and exorcisms as
well.
One of the reasons demons hateus and there are many reasons,
but one of the reasons is theyknow that the saved, the elect,
(27:05):
will take their places, thatthey had thrones offered to them
, thrones of glory.
Should they just say yes attheir test?
But they said no and theyforfeited all of that.
And we're going to get it, theelect will get it.
So when they sense that we areon the way to salvation, they
despise us even more.
So when we escape their graspand obtain, like the saints do,
to, one of those thrones, thenthe fear factor just skyrockets.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
We've talked about this on the show.
It took a while for me to fullygrasp the concept of those
thrones, and it was reallythrough studying the early
church and how there would be ademon's presence in an area and
when they would bring certainsaints relics to that area, the
(27:52):
demons would flee.
Or if there was an oracle, theoracle would stop prophesying
things like that and then thatsaint's relics would then become
the patron saint of that cityand that saint's spirit would
actually cover the city and itwould be like a new principality
(28:16):
that was actually the governingprincipality of the city.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, cities went from having patron pagan gods to
having patron saints.
Speaker 8 (28:23):
Yeah, and that power, the way you described it was
great just then, anthony.
And there's one.
There are some feast days.
One priest pointed this out tome when he was explaining the
importance of relics is thatsome of the feasts that the
church has is the transferenceof a relic from one city to
another.
There's a feast day for thatbecause of what you just said,
because the city that'sinheriting that relic is about
(28:44):
to inherit an abundance ofheavenly blessings from this,
and the spirit of the saint,like genuinely the spirit of the
saint, would then kind ofbecome the principality of that
city.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
And then you'd have those feast days, like I mean,
we, we, we see of um in europeanculture.
They'll have these crazy feastswhere they're marching around
with the, with the statues ofthe saints and stuff, and that
really is an inheritance thatthey're receiving from the
spirit of that saint and it's a,it's a it's, it's a it's.
It's something they passed onthrough generations.
(29:18):
We rob and I did a whole, uh,like a whole segment because we
watched this cbs clip aboutmount.
Was it mount vesuvius, rob?
I think it was.
Do you remember?
I think it was mount vesuviusand the saint, the saint, that
um that they brought in, thatthat saved the city, like that,
spared the city from mountvesuvius, and to this day, that
(29:38):
saint still, they still havethis beautiful cultural enable,
yeah well, yeah, and it was likeit was just such an awesome
thing to like really grasp whatwas going on in that whole thing
, because I don't think theyteach us that in, you know, in
catechism class, and unlessyou're picking up books like the
one that you just wrote, youreally don't, we don't really
don't get that kind ofcatechesis yeah, it was saint
(30:00):
gener San.
Gennaro, san Gennaro, it wasthe San Gennaro.
Speaker 8 (30:02):
Fest.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, this is oneof the things I try to do with
all my books is dig up all theseold teachings.
So much is not being handed on.
It's really beyond bizarre.
But you made me think.
One detail about the relicsthat I learned is that it's
logical If you really thinkabout the power.
The power of the relics islogical.
(30:23):
So we are created body and soul.
We are not meant to die.
It was not what God willed, soit's a violence.
St Thomas Aquinas actually saysthat we are not a man when
we're dead, because the soul andthe body are separated Soul's
in heaven.
So the souls of the saints areyearning to receive their bodies
back.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
They're earning for it.
Speaker 8 (30:40):
Yeah, desire that resurrection.
They're kind of unsatisfied, sowherever their body is on earth
, like they're keeping up withit, and there is that connection
, there's the connection fromthe soul to the body and, like
you were saying, then you sensethe spirit, the presence, the
act of spiritual sanctifyingpresence of that saint over
wherever the relic is,especially a big city.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Yeah, over wherever the relic is, especially a big
city.
Yeah man, I feel like we'vejust totally lost the
understanding of that in modernculture.
We're so materialist at thispoint.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Materialist and egalitarian right.
That's one thing I feelProtestants have such a hard
time with is this thought thateven in heaven there will be
those that are above you andthose are going to be the great
saints, and it's hard for us tothink of them as sitting on
these princely angelic throneswhen they are, you know, people
(31:33):
who, most of them in many ways,committed some sort of you know
sin in their life, and thatthey've attained something that
maybe we won't, even if we domake it to heaven.
Speaker 8 (31:43):
Yeah, St Jerome is clear I can't remember where,
but he's talking about thatissue that there is this
diversity in heaven.
It's like, basically, how dareyou think that when you die,
you're going to be equal to theapostles?
Yeah, yeah.
Being thrown is then like no.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Yeah, rob, that's such a good point because it's
almost like the modernchristians have gotten this
understanding that even evencatholics, they think, well, as
long as I die in a state ofgrace, like I'll just go through
purgatory I'll sneak in I'llsneak, I'll sneak in through
purgatory and I've made jokeslike that and things like that.
But in reality we build treasurein heaven, right, and, and
(32:22):
heaven is, is a kingdom.
And to think that there's not ahierarchy in that kingdom that
extends well beyond Christ, ourLady, the Holy Family, the
apostles, like that extends downand you start to see like you
don't want to be.
I mean, yeah, like the least inthe kingdom of heaven is still
(32:43):
greater than anybody who isn't.
But you do want to try toattain treasure in heaven in
this life.
Speaker 8 (32:51):
Yeah, that's one of the reasons that this book, I
think, is so fascinating.
It's about the saints.
It's about recovering all ofthe theology around the saints
and that we should strive to belike them, that we would
essentially waste our lives ifwe do not strive to to rival
them.
To rival the saints in heavennot the apostles or some that
(33:13):
are out of our grasp, but therest is up for grabs are nine
choirs of spirits in heaven thatthe demons fell from there.
fires of spirits in heaven thatthe demons fell from there.
There's all this Mary, and Godwants us, he commands us to fill
our lives with good deeds andhe wants us to reach these
heights of of heavenly glory.
And and we, we got to try.
I mean, we know how to try andthe saints can help us, they can
(33:35):
lift us up there.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Um, we do have some super chats, so we will get to
those, I know.
Speaker 8 (33:44):
I know people were uh , oh boy, don't read Bobby's I
don't, I don't, I don't havethat one.
You should be out with eachother in works of charity.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
What is St Paul's or something like that?
Um, stop calling it the greenroom.
That term is for ghostly.
Uh, okay, I just had my RCIAinterview today.
The catechist is a woman andtold me not to receive Holy
Communion kneeling.
I said nothing.
What do you make of all thisstuff going on in modern RCIA
programs and stuff like that,Charles?
It's like I mean, we see thebishop in Charlotte taking away
(34:17):
people's ability to kneel and wedo have that article in here
because he's now demanding thatchildren be able to be
eucharistic minister, whateverthat word whatever that means
yeah.
So what do you?
What do you?
What do you make of all that?
Speaker 8 (34:33):
hard to say.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
You know hard to say we're gonna be a drop, that one
on a man you Well, charles istrying to be political correct.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
That's what I understand.
He wants to be welcome into thediocese.
Speaker 8 (34:45):
Right, my diocese.
I have been doing things tohelp the faithful in the diocese
.
We're all banding together.
But I remember Pope St Pius Xand maybe you could know where
I'm going from there but hewarned about modernism.
He warned about modernism inthe seminaries, and then we see
the progression of that.
It was unchecked, it wasunstopped and then it was
(35:06):
unleashed, like 60 years ago,and now we're seeing the fruits
of it.
So that's what we're dealingwith how to stop it.
You know, one of the things inthe back of the book it was kind
of the chapter eight of thebook.
We're talking about MostPowerful Saints and Exorcisms is
called A Renewed Devotion tothe Saints.
This was a naturally emergingchapter, in my opinion, from my
memory of how we wrote the book.
(35:27):
It's all about rediscoveringtheir power, their ability to
intercede for us, their abilityto share their merits with us,
share their virtues with us,share their graces with us.
We need to call upon them.
There's a power, there's thisdormant power that needs to be
awakened and Pope St Not St Yet,but Pope Pius XII talks about
this Like there are certaingraces waiting that Christ is
(35:51):
waiting to give the world and hewill not give them until we
pray fast, do good deeds, stopwhining about the burdens and
sufferings of this world.
Then he will unleash all ofthese graces, and that's one of
the things we're trying to do inCharlotte too.
There's this push during themonth of Our Lady of Sorrow, oh,
you're in Charlotte, yeah.
I didn't know you were in.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
I'm sorry, Charles.
Speaker 8 (36:10):
I didn't mean to put you on the spot.
I thought you knew how aboutthat.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
No, he thought you were just being a a-hole.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Ant.
Speaker 8 (36:22):
I'm not that rude.
Oh my goodness, I would havenever put you on the spot like
that.
We got to make this video.
You know, entertaining peopleno.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
I went.
I went on a pilgrimage to Italyin December and, um, the whole
trip really can be, uh,described as an encounter with
the saints, because throughoutthis whole pilgrimage we went,
like we, we saw Eucharisticmiracles and things like that,
(36:47):
but every time we would go to atomb of a saint, somebody on
that pilgrimage would have anencounter that was like
shattering for them my wife, itwas, um, saint claire, and uh,
like everywhere we went,somebody encountered a saint
that they just like they wouldmelt and they're, they would
just start weeping and thingslike that, and it it was.
The whole thing was just becauseI remember coming back and
saying we really should do aseries on the saints, because I
(37:07):
felt like one of the cool thingsis when, especially when you're
going to Italy and you're goingto these ancient churches, the
language that they use aroundthe saints, like they describe
it as worship.
Right, they're saying like hisworship began or their cult
began, because we're afraid touse those words now, because
(37:28):
we're afraid to offendprotestant sensibilities, but it
there, there really is a cultthat develops around a person
that lives a life ofextraordinary virtue and and
like our true devotion to thatperson and that's what even
elevates them to to thebeatification process and the
canonization process, and we'vejust lost all sense of that and
(37:51):
I think that there's there's athere's something about, when
you fall in love with the saintand learn about them, that Jesus
really does grant little favorsto you because he wants you to
know your older brothers andsisters and the faith that came
before you.
Speaker 8 (38:07):
Oh, yeah, yeah, he definitely rewards us for
following his advice.
You know, there's a reason headvises us in his church, which
is his mystical body, teaches usto call upon them.
I mean, if you look at the theum, the colic, the opening
prayer and all the prayers forfeast days, for saints, you see,
the church relies, depends,depends on the help of these
(38:27):
saints.
Without their help, we cannot.
You know, X, y, z like, withtheir help we can do these
things.
So we need to, and then a graceis given.
There's, there's so much graceavailable through these saints.
Yeah, and I was.
I was was mentioning Our Ladyof Sorrows.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Somebody actually said the Our Lady of Sorrows
book is available from hiswebsite, so it was sold out on
Amazon.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I think they're asking to ask if it's available.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Yeah, ask if it's available on your website,
because it's sold out on Amazon.
Speaker 8 (38:58):
That's unfortunate.
Well, here's the book Our Ladyof Sorrows.
It's a compilation of theteachings of St Alphonsus the
Gory.
I'm surprised it's sold out onAmazon.
I just checked before the show,so check again.
Maybe it's not, maybe it's thehardcover versus the paperback.
I have ordered some so you canpreorder on my website,
slayingdragonspresscom, and Ishould be getting in a week.
(39:24):
Bad timing to run out.
It's such a powerful book andI'm doing all of your books are
great, Charles.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
That's why I'm not even kidding we don't actually
interview authors in.
We turned almost all of themdown, but when Rob told me you
wanted to come on, I was like,let's get Charles on.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I think I got the email the day after we talked
with Joshua Charles about theprincely thrones of the saints
or something like that Goodtiming yeah it felt like good
timing.
Speaker 8 (39:51):
Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Exorcists used to be a minor order.
Does this mean that lay peoplenon-priests were doing exorcisms
back then?
Speaker 8 (39:59):
This is a really important point.
So in the early church the riteof exorcism well, doing
exorcisms was not bound to thepriesthood.
In the early church it wasactually like a charism.
So there are two ways you couldmerit the ability to perform an
exorcism.
Was one you were a priest,given the authority and
commissioned by the church, andnow that has to be the case
(40:20):
where you have to havepermission from your bishop to
do an exorcism, to do the rightof exorcism.
But another way to drive outdemons is to be a saint, and
some of the great saints woulddrive out demons simply by being
around possessed people, byjust saying a prayer, like
there's a St John Bosco.
He has a great story, I think Ihave it in my Slaying Dragons
book.
There's a possessed girl in thepews of a church and St John
(40:41):
Bosco came out of the sacristyto say mass and as soon as she
saw him, the demon fled and thepossession case ended.
And St Catherine of Siena, youknow a third order Dominican the
exorcist would send possessedpeople to her because they could
not.
In the end of the possession itwasn't working, so they sent
the possessed person to her andher mere presence, her simple
(41:01):
prayers her.
You know, dismissive commandsagainst the demon would drive
the demon out.
So you do have that.
That diversity, even now, likeif you're holy demons will run
away yeah, it's, it's.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
It's when somebody lives a life of extraordinary
holiness.
They're able to do supernaturalthings because their life is so
similar to Christ.
It's funny because when youread the Gospels and you hear
about Jesus performing thesemiracles, they sound so wild.
But then you think about PadrePio was able to bilocate, and
(41:35):
you think about Padre Pio wasable to buy Locate, and you
think about Padre Pio was ableto pray for somebody and they
would be, and it's like, ofcourse, the son of God was able
to just do whatever he commandedthe world to do.
You know?
Speaker 8 (41:45):
Yeah, and I often wonder about that because, as
we're all talking, you know,we're all weak.
I think this culture makes usmen especially, really weak.
And we're not educated, so wedon't know what we have, what
the powers in the church we have, but we all need to do more.
Like there's the possibilitythat we could be miracle workers
Like St Alphonsus no, who is it?
St Louis de Montfort says thatin the last days of the church,
(42:05):
in the end times, the greatestsaints will emerge, the ones
greater than all the ones thatcame before them.
Like, what if we're in that age?
What if God wants to wake up inus, the supreme holiness?
Are we doing the work?
This is why things like what'sgoing on in Charlotte and other
parts of the world right nowcall us to penance, to real,
(42:26):
powerful penance.
But I preach this message a lot, but it's hard, it's hard for
me to even do it.
But that's where the holinessis, the saints.
Look at them.
They were extreme mendicants,very austere, very penitential,
and if you don't do that, if wedon't pray with that, we're not
going to make it.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
Yeah, it's one thing.
To talk about this stuff isanother to put it into action.
Right, do you know if everyonehas like we all have a guardian
angel?
Do you know if there's a demonfor every person too?
Speaker 8 (42:56):
Well, as I discuss in Slaying Dragons, everybody is
assigned by God's decree aguardian angel.
But then if we happen to have aguardian demon, a demon
assigned to us, it's assigned bySatan who has no authority so
that demon can be removed, canbe driven away, can be swatted
away like a fly by your guardianangel.
(43:16):
So your guardian angel's thereall the time, he's never going
to leave, he's going to escortyou to paradise, but the demons
can be driven away.
So we don't have a demonassigned to us except by the
kingdom of Satan and you canblock that.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
This is not really related, but I think it can be
related.
I don't know if you did anylooking into the connections
that the shooter of theAnnunciation shooting had with
satanic anarchist groups likethe Order of Nine Angles in 764,
(43:55):
I think, or 746, one of the two.
So I was wondering if you'dheard of either of those groups
at all.
And then also like if you knewof any particular saints,
someone you know who was maybestruggling with the issues that
the shooter had.
You know any particular saintsomeone like that could pray to?
Speaker 8 (44:17):
You mean the uh, oh, right, the uh, the demonic
affiliation, or the mental,certain mental issues, Both,
both, I guess.
Yeah, um, yes, I did not hearabout those two groups.
As you all know, I did a lot ofwork, um, for my two occult
books.
So, just you know, plug onehere, the rise of the occult.
Um, I also have two occultbooks.
So just plug one here, the Riseof the Occult.
I also have the Occult Among Us.
(44:37):
I did not.
I eventually had to stop theresearch.
As you can imagine, it can getreally dark, yeah, I would
imagine.
So I didn't go, I didn't runinto those two groups.
I probably could have if I keptgoing.
But the one saint that jumps tomind and he's in that book, the
Rise of the Occult, and he theone we're talking about today is
Blessed Bartolo Longo, who, itseems, will be canonized soon.
He didn't have the same mentalstruggles, but he had the
(45:01):
demonic issues.
Remember, he was a satanicpriest, consecrated satanic
priest, who eventually had amassive conversion and became a
saint.
He knew popes, I think PopePius X.
He may have known maybe XII, Ican't remember when he died
known maybe 12th, I can'tremember when he died.
So his canonization could behuge for the church because that
elevates the prestige he has inthe church, militant, our
(45:23):
attention to him.
He's already a saint, healready has his reward in heaven
.
But our attention, our focus,our connection to that, by
honoring him as a saint, couldunleash a lot of grace for those
people lost in the occult.
Because the occult doesdisfigure the mind, the body,
the soul, everything, justcomplete perversion, complete
inversion.
A lot of the problems we seetoday, moral problems in our
(45:45):
culture, in our world, are a lotof times are tied to the occult
and they do share a samemorality with occult morality.
So it's, it is a very dark,john, uncertain.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
John, I don't want to put Charles on the spot with
that one because he's in atouchy situation in Charlotte.
I'll say for myself I have goneto an SSPX Mass but I don't
want to put Charles in that spotFor an ad spot.
Yes, direct message Rob onTwitter if he follows you.
If not, send him an email.
I just moved from Queens toCharlotte.
Any recommendations on where toattend Mass or who to connect
(46:16):
with?
That's for you, charles.
Speaker 8 (46:18):
Yeah, so Charlotte, if you're in Charlotte you are
close to so many great parishes.
So St Anne's in Charlotte andSt Thomas Aquinas that's where I
go.
We have still, for four moreSundays, the traditional Latin
Mass 1230 and 1130.
To check the Mass times, StAnne's is 1230.
St Thomas Aquinas is 1130.
(46:39):
I don't know if they'readvertised, because you remember
that weird rule from Francisand then that will continue in
October at least.
October 2nd, the Feast of theGuardian Angels, is when it
stops.
How about that?
Isn't that nice, that'sinteresting.
Speaker 6 (46:54):
But yeah, St Anne's and St stops how?
Speaker 8 (46:54):
about that and that.
Nice, that's interesting, nice.
But yeah, saint anne's, I thinkI was a quiet answer to the
great ones.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
We have a lot of good ones, a lot of great priests
yeah, and there's also an sspxdown there too that we attended
when we went that's in mountholly yeah, uh, every year I ask
a patron saint.
Uh, ask, ask a saint to be mypatron for that year.
The saint usually picks me viafirst, via some sign.
Well, ro Robert has a goodquestion Does everyone have a
guardian angel, or just baptizedChristians?
Speaker 8 (47:18):
Yeah, every single human being on the planet ever
created.
You have a guardian angelBecause God destines all of us
to be his children.
Most of us don't.
There are a lot of children ofGod in hell, unfortunately, but
most of us don't make it to thatadoption and a lot of us don't
make it to that adoption and alot of us don't make it to
heaven.
But everybody does have aguardian angel yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
So Charles did say he's going to fly around nine
o'clock, okay.
So what is the name of the newbook?
Let's plug that.
Rob.
Speaker 8 (47:48):
Yeah, we get that book up.
The Most Powerful Saints andExorcisms what Exorcists Want
you to Know?
And actually I'm glad youbrought it up.
I do have eight copies of thisbook on my website,
slayingdragonspresscom.
These are the only signedcopies, signed by me, that are
available because Sophiapublished this one.
I've published six of my own,but Sophia published this one,
(48:09):
so any book you buy from them orAmazon is not going to be
signed.
But if you get it from me,there are eight copies.
It's up now on my website andI'll sign them for you.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Is there a hardcover?
Speaker 8 (48:19):
version?
As far as I know, there is not.
But check Sophia, and all Ihave are paperback.
Check Sophia and Amazon, You'dthink they would.
I don't know how they operate.
I always do a hardcover too,but there are always extra costs
involved with hardcovers.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
Charles, thank you for coming on.
Man, we, honestly, you guys,pick up any of Charles's books.
You're going to be happy.
Speaker 6 (48:41):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
Slaying dragon is a legendary book.
At this point, everybody,everybody should have that one.
But anything you pick up fromCharles is going to be good.
And yeah, like I said, we wetypically don't interview
authors, because we did have aPatrick O'Hearn on, also for his
courtship with the saintscourtship with the saints.
So tell Patrick, we said helloand we will.
(49:06):
Yeah.
So all right, we'll get you onfor the next, for the next book,
which I'm sure you'll pump outbooks constantly.
Speaker 8 (49:21):
Yeah, I've got several coming.
Speaker 3 (49:21):
This keeps my possibly going awesome.
All right, thanks for joiningus, brother.
Thank you, have a good night.
Have a good night, take care um, yeah, he's always fun yeah I
like supporting him.
It's like uh, yeah, therereally are very few like,
because sophia asked us all thetime right.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Yeah, I get emails from Sophia and Tan a lot and
you know they're all good books,which is why we can't do them
all.
Speaker 3 (49:43):
It's not just that If I haven't read it I don't know
what questions to ask, right?
But like Charles' books arepretty, you know they were
pretty easy to ask questions ofCharles pretty, you know they
were pretty easy to askquestions of charles.
I didn't even have his chaptersout or anything where, and it's
different if you'reinterviewing an author where
you've read their book or I'vetalked to them a few times yeah,
(50:04):
exactly, but you know,typically it's it's.
And also, if you make the showabout the author and the book
you don't usually like.
Even when taylor came on, whenwe put his book title like
people thought it was just goingto be an interview about his
book and they missed a goodinterview, cause that was a lot.
That was a really goodinterview with Taylor, um, but
(50:25):
you you're better off titling itsomething else and then you get
you wind up getting more, uh,viewers on it.
Now tonight's show we we talkedabout knowles and tucker, but I
really think we should havetalked about frad and um scott
hahn.
I did not watch that I watchedalmost all of it and I can't
(50:45):
believe how apocalyptic scotthahn is about the situation in
the church really very similarthings that that I've said about
it, in that a lot of what hewas suggesting is that the
current hierarchy, and even thePope, are prefigured by the, the
(51:06):
high priest and the Sanhedrinin the old, in the old right.
So when we see these betrayalsby the hierarchy, it shouldn't
surprise us, because we've seenthis before and that's always
how I kind of understood thepassion of the church is, by
seeing that, as the type Likeunderstanding, the high priest
(51:30):
betrays Christ and the Sanhedrin, they convict him.
And to see it happening in ourown church shouldn't surprise us
, because it's actually thestory and how it's playing out,
and I think, I think, if not,that we'll ever be able to get
Scott Hahn, because we'reblacklisted from anybody that's
(51:51):
ever had any kind of notoriety.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
I knew we were going to get back into this.
Speaker 3 (52:02):
Anybody, anybody that's ever had any kind of
notoriety.
I knew.
We knew we were gonna get backinto this.
Anybody, anybody that's evenremotely notable in that world,
refuses to talk to us.
Um, but if I ever got him on, Iwould want to run.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Just remember, we did choose to be the heel of
catholic media that's fine, butcome on man, come on man.
It's coming from our and nowwe're gonna be tradding too.
Speaker 3 (52:17):
Man, we're gonna be the worst let me tell you
something it's gonna be gloriouswhen, when we're so big that
they want to come on our showbecause they want to promote
their thing, and I go you didn'thelp us on the way up.
Now you, you pretended youdidn't see my dm the way up, or
you were on our show seven timesand never.
(52:38):
I had to have scholars on.
Oh, you need scholars on yourshow, do you Scholars?
Yeah, that's on the other side.
We're doing that on the otherside.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
I'm not doing it as in theologians, not inner city
youth.
Speaker 3 (52:53):
You draw cartoons, bro.
You won't come on our show.
You freaking draw cartoons, areyou?
Kidding me.
Speaker 2 (53:02):
That's going to be a classic.
You were so loud, your micdecided to turn itself off.
I'm serious.
Speaker 3 (53:19):
I'm sure I saw the thing read out.
It's just oh, it's coming backnow.
Oh it's, it was totally off no,not completely but it totally.
Yeah, did you at least hearwhat I said a little bit?
All right, good, I'll do it.
On the other side, I love theScott Hahn.
(53:39):
The whole thing was about theapocalypse and the antichrist.
It was amazing.
Yeah, me too.
Me too.
I would have liked to like him.
Speaker 2 (53:50):
No he's Irish.
Speaker 3 (53:52):
I don't even care, we'll do it on the other side.
I'm not even talking about him,he's irish.
I don't even care, we'll do iton the other side.
I'm not even talking about him,he's just one he's the one that
said.
He's the one that said antelopethough you just you, just like
I've just had it, like Ihonestly I've just had it.
If I had a show, I'd have youon jd's thanks, jd.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
Jd don't, I thought you did kind of.
I mean, granted, it was havingyour daughter taste mres, right,
so I understand not having uson that.
Speaker 3 (54:20):
But listen, let me tell you something about seamus.
He married a girl from myparish and didn't get aunt's
permission.
No, but like you married a girlfrom my parish.
We've met you.
You really Like, are you toogood for it?
I don't care, piss off, haveall your cartoons, I don't care.
(54:41):
I'll never ask again.
I'm not doing that.
I don't care.
I have like a limit to where Ican be pushed Like it's just
like enough, enough, enough'senough.
And there's others, there'sothers, there's others.
There's people that have beenon this show, people that have
(55:02):
been on this show that I just,like you are so pompous.
Oh my God, all the people thatwe work around are like this man
.
It's sad.
Some kid DM'd me two days agoand he's like hey, man, like we
would love to get you on.
I'm like all right, yeah, I'mlike I'm busy the next few weeks
.
We set a date in october.
(55:22):
The guy's got 200 subscribers,it's like I don't.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
I don't understand why people think they're so
important like now.
I'm have to read now, you'reright.
Did I get back to zealots den?
Speaker 3 (55:29):
you should, because people well, I know you told me
like I said we need to tell themwe're busy till oct.
Speaker 2 (55:35):
I just don't remember if I did that.
If you're watching this and Ididn't, I'm sorry.
Yeah, we ought to look.
Speaker 3 (55:41):
The next several weeks are mayhem for Rob and I,
between the baptism going toDetroit, between I booked a show
with Catholic Unscripted onColumbus Day, like there's so
many things going on right now,so you guys got to, like anybody
that does ask, look, even ifsomebody said to me, hey man,
(56:01):
I'd love to come on, I'm justbusy, that would be enough for
me.
Don't pretend you don't hear me.
Don't pretend you don't knowwho I am.
Speaker 2 (56:09):
You know what?
We don't need him.
We had Gibson, we had Mel.
Speaker 3 (56:12):
But that's the point, right.
Gibson came, had gibson, we hadmel.
Yeah, but that's the point,right.
Oh, gibson came on our show.
That, that's a guy that has ana-list hollywood celebrity, mel
gibson stooped down.
He was humble enough to come ona show, on some no-name show,
when we had what?
8 000 subscribers or something.
It's not.
It's not.
It's not rejection, it's like.
It's more like people love theesteem of men and it's like, oh
(56:39):
well, I have to make sure thepeople I associate with are are
esteemed men as well, so thatpeople think highly of me.
That's what.
That's what I don't like.
Yeah, if you guys haven'trealized.
The show is anthony's therapythis was not supposed to be on
the youtube side.
(57:00):
Let's go to the other side.
Speaker 2 (57:01):
Okay, this, but before everyone on youtube over
here.
Before you leave, watch thevideo I play before we end the
youtube portion because it isawesome.
So anything else to say beforebefore I play this we go over no
, we'll play that, and then I'llcontinue the.
Speaker 3 (57:21):
I'll continue my rage on the other side, because
there's plenty more man okay,guys, enjoy this all.
Speaker 5 (57:38):
Come to the peace of heaven and earth.
Come to the table of mentee.
God will provide for all thatwe need here at the table of
mentee.
Speaker 4 (57:54):
Oh, come and sit at my table when saints and sinners
are friends, my way to welcomethe lost and know me to share
the cup of my love.
Come to the peace of heaven andearth.
(58:19):
Come to the table of plenty.
Speaker 5 (58:24):
God will provide for all that we need here at the
table of plenty.
Thank you,
Once again, ai should assist and not replace human
beings.
When I'm traveling and don'thave access to my studio and I
need to add a voiceover tosomething that I've previously
recorded, I'll have our editoruse an AI clone, which is a
little scary, as he can make meappear to say just about
anything.
He could even make mecompliment those unfunny idiots
at avoiding Babylon.
Seriously, I cannot believe howobnoxious Anthony is and, trust
(00:35):
me, behind the scenes, rob isno better.
The only decent one is theirintro guy, taffy.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Crap.
I chose the wrong one.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Chose the wrong one, hold on, hold on everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Do the other one Crap .
I chose the wrong one, chosethe wrong one.
Hold on, hold on everyone.
Do the other one, come on.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Trent's going to watch the beginning of this too.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I know, I know.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Butchered it.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
There's one.
I got to be careful not to do,though.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Yes, there's one you can't play, but redo that.
I can't believe you blew thatintro.
Trust me no trust me, no one'smore mad than I believe.
You blew that intro.
Hold on just everyone.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Pretend like the beginning of it too don't make
everybody sit through the stupidsong.
Well, I can't.
That's hard to do.
Hold on everyone.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Hold tight, pretend this didn't happen meanwhile,
poor rob just heard me blow mylid off in the green room.
Uh, you know what?
Tonight's I'm gonna tell youguys, tonight's local show is
going to be a good one, becauseI have a lot of pent up
frustration and anger with mypeers in the Catholic, in the
(01:33):
Catholic commentariat.
I'm just like.
I'm just like some of thesepeople are just so pompous, man,
they're just so arrogant andpompous and I'm just getting
tired of it.
So you guys will hear me rantand rave over.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Okay, okay, we'll redo it.
Let's pretend, let's go.
This didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Once again, ai should assist and not replace human
beings.
When I'm traveling and don'thave access to my studio and I
need to add a voiceover tosomething that I've previously
recorded, I'll have our editoruse an AI clone, which is a
little scary, as he can make meappear to say just about
anything.
He could even make mecompliment those unfunny retards
at avoiding Babylon.
(02:31):
Seriously, I cannot believe howobnoxious Anthony is and, trust
me, behind the scenes, rob isno better.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
We got that was worth it.
Yeah, we got trying to sayretards.
Let me tell you something Idon't know if he wants me to say
this.
We're not playing that one.
We have taken shots at Trent onthis show, but I still have a
very good relationship withTrent.
I always respect someone whocan take a shot or two and have
(03:02):
a good enough relationship thatI sent him that video.
I was like, okay, with this onecoming.
I was like, yeah, I don't care,he's happy.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
He actually sent trent a really really good one
too I did send that one.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
I don't think he was a fan trent.
Trent's a good sport man.
I do like him, um yeah, no this.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
He's not the person I'm.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Uh 15 minutes late well, okay, the 15 minutes late.
I had a 10 o'clock start inStaten Island today and I didn't
get home until I walked in mydoor at 7.30.
I had to jump in the shower.
My wife made an amazing cornchowder and I tried to slam that
down real quick so I just toldRob it was going to be a few
minutes late.
It was all on me tonight, notrob, but um, so, um, yeah,
(03:49):
there's uh man, we'll talk aboutthat on locals because I, I
just I'm getting fed up withpeople, um, and I will name
you're about to pull me onsomeone yeah, it's getting that
bad, but it's just, it's justblatant disrespect.
Um, but whatever, we'll do thatlater.
Um, so michael knowles was ontucker carlson and there's two
ways we could go about this,because well, first off already
(04:12):
when's it coming on uh 8, 30,and he can only stay till till
nine, so he's gonna be on for 10minutes so we got like 13
minutes to kind of just discussthe michael knowles thing.
I got two clips we're gonna play.
Um, we're gonna do the goodtonight.
Like there, I got two clipswe're going to play, we're going
to do the good tonight.
There's two segments that Iwanted to play that are pretty
good tonight, because I did sendMichael an invite and I hope he
(04:36):
responds.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
This has absolutely nothing to do with the previous
comment about pompous andarrogant assholes.
No, it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
It doesn't yet.
Yeah, because Michael Knowleshe was just on Tucker Carlson
comment about pompous andarrogant ass.
No, it doesn't, it doesn't yet,it doesn't yet.
Yeah, michael knows, it wasjust on tucker calls.
You deal with us.
I'm talking about people on ourlevel, like there's a.
There's a difference.
You know, when somebody's onyour level and and they're
acting that way, like I get it.
Michael michael's in adifferent stratosphere than us.
(05:02):
But there's some really goodstuff in this interview with
Tucker Carlson.
I do think it was one of thebetter Catholic interviews that
Tucker has had.
Michael kept bringing it backto Catholicism.
He did way better than BishopBarron.
And then there's like a10-minute segment that I think
everybody that heard is like oof, all right, but I get it
(05:24):
because I mean you're on a,you're having a conversation
with somebody that's notCatholic and I get the um, the
difficulty in um, like some,some Catholic teaching is
difficult, right, I dealt withthis when I was talking with my
in-laws and the way I learnedthat you you deal with it is go
(05:44):
look, this is not me, uh, doingthis.
Um, oh yeah, he says he neverchecks those.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
But come on I mean I, margo, did give me his
assistant's email.
Listen to me every.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
You make it like he doesn't see his dms.
Everybody sees it.
He told the story on tuckerabout how he dm'd um norm
mcdonald.
Like everybody checks their dmsstop it, come on, he doesn't
have them open, he only followsa couple thousand people.
You say like I've I followedaround 2 000 people.
I get a few enough dms that I'mable to check my dms.
(06:17):
Come on, that's an excuse thatpeople come up with so that they
could get away with pretendingthey didn't see what you wrote.
Everybody sees their DMs.
I guarantee you if somebodyimportant DMs Michael Knowles,
he's going to respond to it.
It's a silly thing to say hedoesn't see it.
If he didn't follow me.
That's different, because thenit goes into that back folder.
But he follows me.
So yeah, the tricky part, likehaving those hard conversations,
(06:44):
I've found the best way to goabout them is to just say look,
I'm going to give you what thechurch teaches and, like I'm a
loyal son of the church, theseare things that are difficult,
that I don't have any controlover.
I can't tell the church toteach something different, but
this is what the church teaches.
If you want me to tell you whatthe teaching is, I will and
that's how I've gone about it inmy experience to you know,
(07:06):
people still get a little hotand heated because they're like
oh, so you're saying I'm goingto hell.
It's like no, I'm not sayingyou're going to hell.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
The church is saying you're going to hell.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
The church is teaching and I just am Catholic
and I'm not going to not beCatholic because I don't.
You know, I think it's meanbecause I I think that is one of
the difficult things abouthaving conversations in modern
culture is you can't be mean topeople, right?
So I mean.
But I also know that I was juston with uh nova sort of watch,
(07:34):
and people were critiquing thatconversation because they
weren't pushing on me hard.
So, like when you're in afriendly conversation, you don't
want to bring something toocontentious up and make it
unawkward and make it awkwardand things like that.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
So I watched, uh, kevin's response to yesterday.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
That was good yeah, oh right, it was very good.
Yeah, kevin, kevin did aresponse video and I'll be
honest, I haven't watched theactual conversation, yet I
really I'm dude, I really Ithink I think I was awesome guy
he's just like a genuinely niceguy, so I I really do like him,
um, but okay, so why don't wejump into the first clip I put
in there, rob?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
before we do that, I just want to, um, bring up the
the shirts again.
So I actually got one of my oneof the protect catholic kids
shirt on our store.
So, uh, I think I put it in theit's in the description of the
video.
But, um, for those of you whodon't know, we created a Protect
(08:28):
Catholic Kids shirt with thehelp of what's his name, keith,
keith Nestor.
That guy and all the proceedsfrom sales of these shirts go
towards the Annunciation Fundfor Hope and Healing.
Or, basically, it goes to theparish and kids that were
affected by the shooting at theAnnunciation uh fund for hope
and healing.
Or, basically, it goes to theparish and kids that were
affected by the shooting at theannunciation hey, and now we're
(08:51):
not.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah, we're not getting anything from that.
So if you guys want to actuallysupport the show, buy one of
the other shirts.
I'm just saying rob's alwaysnot wrong people.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, he's not gonna support us buy something else,
yeah we actually make money onyeah, yeah, so we have other
shirts on here too that weactually make money from.
Yeah, but no money from thesewill go to us.
It goes directly to to thefamilies and so far we've sold
like 80 shirts for uh for an 800worth of donation so far you
guys really do step up whenthere's a good cause at hand.
(09:21):
Uh, but you know, joe, I thinkthey, I think they do.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I can't say for sure, but I think they do the new
merch store is on point likepeople are getting their stuff
now I got.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
I ordered this what today's, what thursday?
I think I ordered it lastfriday or monday.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
So yeah, the new merch store is on point, so if
you guys order stuff, you'regoing to get it.
The last one was like peoplewere waiting months and didn't
come through.
I'm like very good job pickingthat new store.
So, um, all right, let's jumpinto it, cause we we do have
Charles frown coming on in 10minutes.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
So which one am I picking here?
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Uh, the first one I put in um is why Gen Z is
becoming Catholic.
Okay, we'll, we'll do thewebsite after.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Molly Molly, look in the description of the YouTube
video.
It is in the description.
Speaker 6 (10:14):
Okay, here we go instinct has been for the last
few years that physical realitydoes really matter, even as I
feel like I've had a heightenedspiritual awareness and the dead
, certain knowledge that thereis a spiritual, an unseen realm
that is acting on us all thetime and that that's as real as
anything.
I sincerely believe that, buton the other hand, I do see a
(10:37):
lot of like ignoring of thephysical reality around us.
Speaker 7 (10:42):
Yeah, this is why, by the way, you know like
everyone's becoming Catholic now.
You've noticed a strangephenomenon.
Yes, I think this is a bigreason why it's people.
The decline of religion hastapered off.
Other denominations andtraditions are growing, but
Catholicism in particular isexploding.
Why?
I think it's because it's asacramental theology I never
(11:04):
would have called that, isn't it?
Yeah, 20 years ago, could youimagine?
Speaker 6 (11:07):
At all, certainly not .
No, the spotlight series hadjust come out and you're just
like.
This church is too corrupt tocontinue and I'm not.
Speaker 7 (11:15):
I just want to say again I'm not Catholic, but I
strongly agree that there's arevival and I just see it all
around me and I think this iswhy, you know, I mean, the words
of the sacrifice of the massare this is my body, which will
be given up for you, you know,and which is mocked, you know.
The phrase hocus pocus, like inmagic, is a mockery of hocus
danum corpus meum.
(11:36):
This is my body, you know.
Yeah, it's a kind of a hocuscorpus, hocus pocus At least
that's a popular etymology andI'm persuaded by it.
So there's always this mockeryin all of the kind of false
religions, there's always thismockery of the real sacrifice.
But in a lot of religioustraditions and I don't cast
aspersions, I had a Baptistgrandpa, you know, the Knowleses
(11:58):
come from Maine.
Actually, this is the ancestralhomeland of the Knowleses.
Amazing, yes, yeah, theancestral homeland of the
Knowleses.
Amazing, yes, yeah, I haven'tmade it up very often but a lot
of Puritan in the wood.
Speaker 6 (12:07):
A lot of us had ancestors in Maine and it's you
know they left.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
The whole interview was kind of like this, where
pretty much everything Tuckerwould bring up, michael would
bring it back to these littlethings about Catholicism.
And another really good quotehe got was from Fulton Sheen,
where Fulton Sheen said if youwed yourself to the age, you
(12:33):
will become a widow in the next.
And it was just like that iswhat the church did in the 60s.
They wed themselves to the ageof the revolution and now the
church is a widow, essentially.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I saw a quote today on Twitter.
I forget who it was from.
The quote itself wasChesterston, and he said
something to the effect of thesaint that converts the age is
the saint that is most unlike it.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah, or something along those, yeah, yeah, it's,
it's, we've talked about thattoo.
How, like, how, how the thefool can like point out the
absurdity of things going on.
You know, like, we talked aboutlike, like, uh, with saint
francis and stuff.
But, uh, pull up ally beth,stuck, stuck, stuck.
These tweet.
I dislike her.
I do too.
That's why I want to bring upher tweet.
(13:24):
Um, she wrote the popularnarrative.
So this is solely because shewatched knolls on tucker.
Um, the popular narrative isthat catholicism is booming, but
this is not true.
According to pew, for every oneperson joining the church,
eight people are leaving.
This is worsened since 2014,when every one person that
joined, six people left.
This study has been cited bythe catholic sources, too, who,
(13:45):
who are willing to honestly facethe position the catholic
church is now in.
So she goes on and on.
She starts citing the pew study, but she actually cites salmons
without name yeah, but but seehow she framed it.
the popular narrative is thatcatholicism is booming, but
that's not actually thenarrative that we all are aware.
The church is in decline, weknow parishes are closing and
(14:07):
everything is in decline.
The narrative is that Gen Z,when they find faith, they're
not going to Protestantism, theyare going to ancient
Christianity, whether that'sEastern Orthodoxy or if that's
Catholicism.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
And largely, when someone leaves the church,
they're not going toProtestantism, they're going to
nothing.
They're going to nothing andthey're not actually leaving the
church.
They haven't been at the churchin years.
They're just now notidentifying as Catholic, that's
all.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
So so.
So Allie is correct aboutpeople leaving the church, but I
but the narrative that she'strying to frame.
That as that's not thenarrative and that's not
whatucker and michael weretalking about.
They were talking about gen zcoming into the church and the
thing is, protestant gen z is inthis technological realm where
everything is fake, everything,and they're looking for
(14:57):
something deeper andtranscendent and they're just
not getting it at theseprotestant services with these
preachers making these big youyou know whatever, these big
shows of their church servicesand things like that.
So what they're doing isthey're going to find something
transcendent and you do not findthat transcendence in
(15:19):
Protestantism, you only find itin traditional Catholicism and
Eastern Orthodoxy.
And that really is theconversation going on in the
culture.
I mean, andrew Wilson has beengoing on Crowder's show, so he's
been talking to whatever theproducer over there's name.
Tim Gordon's going to go onthat show too to discuss the
Catholic position, but he'stalking about icons and the
(15:40):
guy's like Gerald is an idiot.
Gerald is an idiot, but Geraldis like.
I knew that when I actuallylike crowder, even gerald is
like um, one place you guys loseme is on icon veneration and
it's like but gerald is thinkingabout these things, right, and
he understands.
Like protestantism is silly.
He's just still hung up onthose protestant attachments
where they think that's idolatry, right.
(16:02):
But but he, he's.
He's in a place where he'sgoing to be swung by the
argument we're going to keepCharles in the green room for
another two minutes.
I want to play the other clipbefore we bring him on.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Get over to that real quick here.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
So this one is Tucker .
It's really a Tucker clip, himexplaining to Michael his
feelings about Pope Francis, andit's just interesting because
it kind of shows up like one ofthe main things we've talked
about on this show.
Speaker 6 (16:34):
Yep, yeah, the best thing I ever heard from a
practicing Catholic in the lastfive years was no one around is
a very close friend of mine andhe was going on about
Catholicism.
I was like, okay, okay, butthat pope is just, I just can't.
I won't even tell you what Isaid, but it was hostile because
that's how I felt.
And he goes, are you sure?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
you're not catholic no, it was the greatest thing
ever he goes.
Speaker 6 (17:00):
Yeah, I totally agree , but he's not the worst pope
we've had.
Yes, was it completelynon-defensive?
This happens.
Speaker 7 (17:07):
It's like.
Let me tell you about the 9thcentury.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
I think that's right.
If you want to win people over,don't be defensive.
Yes, totally Don't tell me thatthere's no, that what I'm
seeing isn't real.
Yeah, yeah, be honest, ofcourse.
Of course I mean it is Okay,but I don't know that.
I've talked to too manyCatholics about Catholicism.
Maybe they all feel that way,but I thought that was just a
wonderful response.
Speaker 7 (17:29):
Totally, you know.
We have to remember that thePope is.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
This was the thing that kind of jumped our show off
with the Lofton thing, becauseLofton was criticizing me for
whatever he was and I said don'ttell me I'm not seeing what I'm
seeing, because what you'reasking me to do is on par with
like pretending a man is a woman.
That's the level of cognitivedissonance that's going on here.
Like I see what I see, I'm notcrazy, I know what I'm seeing,
(18:00):
and gaslighting people is nothelpful to the situation.
So your best bet is to actuallysay, yeah, all right, things
are a mess, but in reality Imean we've had popes in the past
that toasted the devil.
Like we've had popes that youknow had orgies with whatever.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Francis might still be the worst.
Yeah, he still might be theworst.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
But you know you don't hide from that stuff.
You just address it and you say, yeah, he's terrible.
What are you going to do?
You know it's still the churchLike.
The church isn't, isn'tchanging.
So all right, we're going to.
I meant to have a half an hourfor that conversation, but I do
think Michael did a good job.
I think there's probably onesegment that he's going to catch
(18:43):
criticism for, and that was theextra Ecclesiam Nullus Alice
portion and discussing VaticanII.
The funny thing is I almost ashe was saying it, I'm like I
sensed he didn't even believewhat he was saying, like he.
He knew what he was saying hewas going to catch grief for,
but he was just pitching thevatican two line yeah, the
(19:05):
company line basically companyline.
He was just pitching, but I feltthat he was saying it with
shame, like it was.
It wasn't nearly as bad asbaron telling shapiro that you
know, christ is the privilegedway.
It wasn't that bad, but he didwater down no salvation outside
(19:25):
the church but, in fairness, sodoes the entire hierarchy.
So, all right, we're going tobring Charles on.
It's been a while since wetalked with him.
Let's bring him on, charles,how are you brother?
Fellas good to see you again,Hello Were you able to hear us
while you're in the green room?
Yeah, unfortunately.
Speaker 8 (19:44):
Oh, all right, I was sitting there in silence.
I was ready for you how haveyou been?
Speaker 3 (19:51):
man, it was amusing.
Did you happen to catch thatinterview at all?
Speaker 8 (19:58):
No, I rarely have time to watch podcasts
unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I was gonna say you strike me as somebody who
doesn't like keep up with stufflike that and I kind of burnt
out on all the you know all thestuff going on in the church.
Speaker 8 (20:12):
Now I like to just research.
Uh, you know, pious the 12thand backwards, just to and
backwards that's a healthy wayto go about life.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
I would imagine it's like uh, it's good for your
spiritual life and your soul.
But, um, this, this most recentbook I thought was actually
really interesting, would you?
You went back and youresearched uh powerful saints in
exorcisms, what exorcists wantyou to know.
So this is basically uhdiscussing um some of the saints
that exorcists call upon intheir exorcisms.
Speaker 8 (20:43):
Yeah, it actually tackles so many issues, so many
traditional teachings that a lotof people are clueless on, like
merit, hierarchy in heaven,authority, patron saints,
liturgical feasts, so.
But yeah, so it was the.
I co-authored it with a friendof mine, patrick O'Hearn, so it
was his idea.
He's written a lot on saintsand I've Patrick O'Hearn, so it
was his idea.
He's written a lot on saintsand I've written a lot on
(21:05):
spiritual warfare, so he had theidea let's combine these two
things because this is a reality.
People who keep up withexorcists hear them talk about
these saints showing up and like, what does that mean exactly?
We talk about that showing upin exorcisms and that reality is
just amazing.
The exorcisms and that realityis just amazing.
The fact that the saints thatwe're so devoted to, that the
church depends on her liturgicalyear revolves around they're
(21:27):
active in this ministry.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
When you say they show up in exorcisms.
What do you mean by show up?
Speaker 8 (21:38):
Yeah, I think it's very important, one of the
things that we got clarified forourselves when we first started
doing the research interviewingthese exorcists.
One of the first things and Iwas kind of clueless with this,
it just glossed over in myresearch for a long time that
one of the first things theexorcist does in an exorcism is
pray the litany of the saints.
That's one of the very firstthings and there's a reason.
So they intercede, they show up, they're called upon
(21:59):
immediately.
So it's the practice of thechurch to call upon the saints
for exorcisms, for this wholework.
Then the showing up part is nota vision to the exorcist,
typically not a vision to thepossessed, though they can
sometimes detect something'shappening.
It's the demon.
The demon and the possessedperson sees the saint and cries
out it's a weapon.
(22:22):
The saint becomes a weapon,just like the sacramentals are
weapons.
The saint is there as a victor,a warrior, untouchable to the
demon, someone who's alreadyconquered the demon, is in
heaven and saved now.
But they'll appear somewhere inthe room sometimes and the
demon will scream and identify,never by the name but by some
(22:42):
kind of dismissive or belittling, like that bearded one for
Padre Pio, for example.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Yeah, what was that?
What was the most interestingstory you came across doing your
research?
Speaker 8 (22:54):
yeah, I would say well, there there are a lot, let
me pick one.
Well, one of the things thatwas really interesting is that a
lot, let me pick one.
Well, one of the things thatwas really interesting is that a
lot of the modern saints.
You know, surprise, surprise, alot of the modern saints are
the ones that are showing up themost.
And showing up means to answeryour question a little more.
Is they just their influence isfelt.
(23:17):
The exorcist may have a relic,there may be a connection.
We can talk about why you callupon certain ones, but when the
saint is named you see thereaction like, oh, that saint
somehow has a connection here.
That's how you know.
But I think one of the mostinteresting ones is probably St
Joseph, to pick from many, whichwas great.
You know, terror of demons.
(23:37):
Hopefully he's showing up Someof the saints you hope exorcists
are seeing.
They're not always seeing.
It's kind of up to God,obviously, who's going to show
up.
But Father Ripperker relayedthis one and we pulled that into
our book.
That St Joseph manifested.
I think the possessed personsaw him walking around carrying
a staff and smashing his staffon the ground repeatedly, and
(23:59):
every time he smashed his staffon the ground.
The demon and the person feltit would just, you know, shriek
with terror.
The surge of fear would just gothrough the demon and the
possessed person would feel itand then tell father what's
going on.
But I mean not just a subtle,not a subtle apparition of
apparition, but a subtleinterference intervention, but a
(24:20):
big one from, did you?
Speaker 3 (24:22):
did you interview um contemporary exorcists for the
book?
Speaker 8 (24:28):
we did, we um.
So we pulled from like videos,published articles, but then we
interviewed a lot of livingexorcists.
Some wanted to be anonymous,some were willing to be public.
But we also pulled from a bookthat I recently published.
I got to publish the Latin, theEnglish translation of the
Latin text for FlagellumDaemonum.
(24:48):
It's a 16th century spiritualwarfare and exorcism manual that
was popular for 300 years allthroughout Europe.
It's called the Scourge ofDemons in English and Father
Menji, he was the father of theexorcist art.
So we pulled from that bookbecause he talks about this
happening.
One of the things he instructsexorcists to do is to ask the
demon who the primary saint isthat he fears the most.
(25:12):
And the demon has to, you know,eventually, under pressure,
reveal that name and then theexorcist uses that name, that
saint against that demon.
So this idea of like thenemesis, that certain saints are
pitted against certain demons,has been around for at least 500
years.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Yeah.
So he's asking if St MaryMagdalene comes up.
Speaker 8 (25:34):
Yeah, she has.
Again, we interviewed, we hadthe count.
Let's say we interviewed likeseven exorcists or pulled from
seven or eight exorcists, maybenine.
That's a small sample and Ithink if we were able to
interview all of them we'd findso many stories, because one
exorcist would have thesestories but not this saint.
The other exorcist would havethese other saints.
There was not a lot.
(25:55):
There were some commonalitiesbut a lot of differences.
So St Mary Magdalene has shownup or been utilized, been called
upon for issues where thepossession case has to do with
impurity, with sexual sins, andthat's that patron saint.
There's that quality, thataspect.
If that saint conquered thevice that got this person in
(26:17):
trouble, then you call upon thatsaint and there's a great
efficacy there.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
You said that it seems like some saints are
pitted against certain demonsthat have been, like you said,
sometimes for centuries.
Is there a specific reason forthat, and does it have anything
to do with that saint takingthat demon's angelic throne in
heaven?
Oh, that's a good question.
Speaker 8 (26:42):
Yeah, demons, angelic throne in heaven?
Oh, that's a good question,yeah, so as I talk um, I don't
know if we talked about slayingdragons, but just a little
little plug in slaying dragons,this is the first book that
really got me started um,interviewing a bunch of
exorcists, compilation theteachings of exorcists.
There is that that point beingmade.
We talk about it in the mostpowerful saints and exorcisms as
well.
One of the reasons demons hateus and there are many reasons,
but one of the reasons is theyknow that the saved, the elect,
(27:05):
will take their places, thatthey had thrones offered to them
, thrones of glory.
Should they just say yes attheir test?
But they said no and theyforfeited all of that.
And we're going to get it, theelect will get it.
So when they sense that we areon the way to salvation, they
despise us even more.
So when we escape their graspand obtain, like the saints do,
to, one of those thrones, thenthe fear factor just skyrockets.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
We've talked about this on the show.
It took a while for me to fullygrasp the concept of those
thrones, and it was reallythrough studying the early
church and how there would be ademon's presence in an area and
when they would bring certainsaints relics to that area, the
(27:52):
demons would flee.
Or if there was an oracle, theoracle would stop prophesying
things like that and then thatsaint's relics would then become
the patron saint of that cityand that saint's spirit would
actually cover the city and itwould be like a new principality
(28:16):
that was actually the governingprincipality of the city.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, cities went from having patron pagan gods to
having patron saints.
Speaker 8 (28:23):
Yeah, and that power, the way you described it was
great just then, anthony.
And there's one.
There are some feast days.
One priest pointed this out tome when he was explaining the
importance of relics is thatsome of the feasts that the
church has is the transferenceof a relic from one city to
another.
There's a feast day for thatbecause of what you just said,
because the city that'sinheriting that relic is about
(28:44):
to inherit an abundance ofheavenly blessings from this,
and the spirit of the saint,like genuinely the spirit of the
saint, would then kind ofbecome the principality of that
city.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
And then you'd have those feast days, like I mean,
we, we, we see of um in europeanculture.
They'll have these crazy feastswhere they're marching around
with the, with the statues ofthe saints and stuff, and that
really is an inheritance thatthey're receiving from the
spirit of that saint and it's a,it's a it's, it's a it's.
It's something they passed onthrough generations.
(29:18):
We rob and I did a whole, uh,like a whole segment because we
watched this cbs clip aboutmount.
Was it mount vesuvius, rob?
I think it was.
Do you remember?
I think it was mount vesuviusand the saint, the saint, that
um that they brought in, thatthat saved the city, like that,
spared the city from mountvesuvius, and to this day, that
(29:38):
saint still, they still havethis beautiful cultural enable,
yeah well, yeah, and it was likeit was just such an awesome
thing to like really grasp whatwas going on in that whole thing
, because I don't think theyteach us that in, you know, in
catechism class, and unlessyou're picking up books like the
one that you just wrote, youreally don't, we don't really
don't get that kind ofcatechesis yeah, it was saint
(30:00):
gener San.
Gennaro, san Gennaro, it wasthe San Gennaro.
Speaker 8 (30:02):
Fest.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, this is oneof the things I try to do with
all my books is dig up all theseold teachings.
So much is not being handed on.
It's really beyond bizarre.
But you made me think.
One detail about the relicsthat I learned is that it's
logical If you really thinkabout the power.
The power of the relics islogical.
(30:23):
So we are created body and soul.
We are not meant to die.
It was not what God willed, soit's a violence.
St Thomas Aquinas actually saysthat we are not a man when
we're dead, because the soul andthe body are separated Soul's
in heaven.
So the souls of the saints areyearning to receive their bodies
back.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
They're earning for it.
Speaker 8 (30:40):
Yeah, desire that resurrection.
They're kind of unsatisfied, sowherever their body is on earth
, like they're keeping up withit, and there is that connection
, there's the connection fromthe soul to the body and, like
you were saying, then you sensethe spirit, the presence, the
act of spiritual sanctifyingpresence of that saint over
wherever the relic is,especially a big city.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Yeah, over wherever the relic is, especially a big
city.
Yeah man, I feel like we'vejust totally lost the
understanding of that in modernculture.
We're so materialist at thispoint.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Materialist and egalitarian right.
That's one thing I feelProtestants have such a hard
time with is this thought thateven in heaven there will be
those that are above you andthose are going to be the great
saints, and it's hard for us tothink of them as sitting on
these princely angelic throneswhen they are, you know, people
(31:33):
who, most of them in many ways,committed some sort of you know
sin in their life, and thatthey've attained something that
maybe we won't, even if we domake it to heaven.
Speaker 8 (31:43):
Yeah, St Jerome is clear I can't remember where,
but he's talking about thatissue that there is this
diversity in heaven.
It's like, basically, how dareyou think that when you die,
you're going to be equal to theapostles?
Yeah, yeah.
Being thrown is then like no.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Yeah, rob, that's such a good point because it's
almost like the modernchristians have gotten this
understanding that even evencatholics, they think, well, as
long as I die in a state ofgrace, like I'll just go through
purgatory I'll sneak in I'llsneak, I'll sneak in through
purgatory and I've made jokeslike that and things like that.
But in reality we build treasurein heaven, right, and, and
(32:22):
heaven is, is a kingdom.
And to think that there's not ahierarchy in that kingdom that
extends well beyond Christ, ourLady, the Holy Family, the
apostles, like that extends downand you start to see like you
don't want to be.
I mean, yeah, like the least inthe kingdom of heaven is still
(32:43):
greater than anybody who isn't.
But you do want to try toattain treasure in heaven in
this life.
Speaker 8 (32:51):
Yeah, that's one of the reasons that this book, I
think, is so fascinating.
It's about the saints.
It's about recovering all ofthe theology around the saints
and that we should strive to belike them, that we would
essentially waste our lives ifwe do not strive to to rival
them.
To rival the saints in heavennot the apostles or some that
(33:13):
are out of our grasp, but therest is up for grabs are nine
choirs of spirits in heaven thatthe demons fell from there.
fires of spirits in heaven thatthe demons fell from there.
There's all this Mary, and Godwants us, he commands us to fill
our lives with good deeds andhe wants us to reach these
heights of of heavenly glory.
And and we, we got to try.
I mean, we know how to try andthe saints can help us, they can
(33:35):
lift us up there.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Um, we do have some super chats, so we will get to
those, I know.
Speaker 8 (33:44):
I know people were uh , oh boy, don't read Bobby's I
don't, I don't, I don't havethat one.
You should be out with eachother in works of charity.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
What is St Paul's or something like that?
Um, stop calling it the greenroom.
That term is for ghostly.
Uh, okay, I just had my RCIAinterview today.
The catechist is a woman andtold me not to receive Holy
Communion kneeling.
I said nothing.
What do you make of all thisstuff going on in modern RCIA
programs and stuff like that,Charles?
It's like I mean, we see thebishop in Charlotte taking away
(34:17):
people's ability to kneel and wedo have that article in here
because he's now demanding thatchildren be able to be
eucharistic minister, whateverthat word whatever that means
yeah.
So what do you?
What do you?
What do you make of all that?
Speaker 8 (34:33):
hard to say.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
You know hard to say we're gonna be a drop, that one
on a man you Well, charles istrying to be political correct.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
That's what I understand.
He wants to be welcome into thediocese.
Speaker 8 (34:45):
Right, my diocese.
I have been doing things tohelp the faithful in the diocese
.
We're all banding together.
But I remember Pope St Pius Xand maybe you could know where
I'm going from there but hewarned about modernism.
He warned about modernism inthe seminaries, and then we see
the progression of that.
It was unchecked, it wasunstopped and then it was
(35:06):
unleashed, like 60 years ago,and now we're seeing the fruits
of it.
So that's what we're dealingwith how to stop it.
You know, one of the things inthe back of the book it was kind
of the chapter eight of thebook.
We're talking about MostPowerful Saints and Exorcisms is
called A Renewed Devotion tothe Saints.
This was a naturally emergingchapter, in my opinion, from my
memory of how we wrote the book.
(35:27):
It's all about rediscoveringtheir power, their ability to
intercede for us, their abilityto share their merits with us,
share their virtues with us,share their graces with us.
We need to call upon them.
There's a power, there's thisdormant power that needs to be
awakened and Pope St Not St Yet,but Pope Pius XII talks about
this Like there are certaingraces waiting that Christ is
(35:51):
waiting to give the world and hewill not give them until we
pray fast, do good deeds, stopwhining about the burdens and
sufferings of this world.
Then he will unleash all ofthese graces, and that's one of
the things we're trying to do inCharlotte too.
There's this push during themonth of Our Lady of Sorrow, oh,
you're in Charlotte, yeah.
I didn't know you were in.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
I'm sorry, Charles.
Speaker 8 (36:10):
I didn't mean to put you on the spot.
I thought you knew how aboutthat.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
No, he thought you were just being a a-hole.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Ant.
Speaker 8 (36:22):
I'm not that rude.
Oh my goodness, I would havenever put you on the spot like
that.
We got to make this video.
You know, entertaining peopleno.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
I went.
I went on a pilgrimage to Italyin December and, um, the whole
trip really can be, uh,described as an encounter with
the saints, because throughoutthis whole pilgrimage we went,
like we, we saw Eucharisticmiracles and things like that,
(36:47):
but every time we would go to atomb of a saint, somebody on
that pilgrimage would have anencounter that was like
shattering for them my wife, itwas, um, saint claire, and uh,
like everywhere we went,somebody encountered a saint
that they just like they wouldmelt and they're, they would
just start weeping and thingslike that, and it it was.
The whole thing was just becauseI remember coming back and
saying we really should do aseries on the saints, because I
(37:07):
felt like one of the cool thingsis when, especially when you're
going to Italy and you're goingto these ancient churches, the
language that they use aroundthe saints, like they describe
it as worship.
Right, they're saying like hisworship began or their cult
began, because we're afraid touse those words now, because
(37:28):
we're afraid to offendprotestant sensibilities, but it
there, there really is a cultthat develops around a person
that lives a life ofextraordinary virtue and and
like our true devotion to thatperson and that's what even
elevates them to to thebeatification process and the
canonization process, and we'vejust lost all sense of that and
(37:51):
I think that there's there's athere's something about, when
you fall in love with the saintand learn about them, that Jesus
really does grant little favorsto you because he wants you to
know your older brothers andsisters and the faith that came
before you.
Speaker 8 (38:07):
Oh, yeah, yeah, he definitely rewards us for
following his advice.
You know, there's a reason headvises us in his church, which
is his mystical body, teaches usto call upon them.
I mean, if you look at the theum, the colic, the opening
prayer and all the prayers forfeast days, for saints, you see,
the church relies, depends,depends on the help of these
(38:27):
saints.
Without their help, we cannot.
You know, X, y, z like, withtheir help we can do these
things.
So we need to, and then a graceis given.
There's, there's so much graceavailable through these saints.
Yeah, and I was.
I was was mentioning Our Ladyof Sorrows.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Somebody actually said the Our Lady of Sorrows
book is available from hiswebsite, so it was sold out on
Amazon.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I think they're asking to ask if it's available.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Yeah, ask if it's available on your website,
because it's sold out on Amazon.
Speaker 8 (38:58):
That's unfortunate.
Well, here's the book Our Ladyof Sorrows.
It's a compilation of theteachings of St Alphonsus the
Gory.
I'm surprised it's sold out onAmazon.
I just checked before the show,so check again.
Maybe it's not, maybe it's thehardcover versus the paperback.
I have ordered some so you canpreorder on my website,
slayingdragonspresscom, and Ishould be getting in a week.
(39:24):
Bad timing to run out.
It's such a powerful book andI'm doing all of your books are
great, Charles.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
That's why I'm not even kidding we don't actually
interview authors in.
We turned almost all of themdown, but when Rob told me you
wanted to come on, I was like,let's get Charles on.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I think I got the email the day after we talked
with Joshua Charles about theprincely thrones of the saints
or something like that Goodtiming yeah it felt like good
timing.
Speaker 8 (39:51):
Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Exorcists used to be a minor order.
Does this mean that lay peoplenon-priests were doing exorcisms
back then?
Speaker 8 (39:59):
This is a really important point.
So in the early church the riteof exorcism well, doing
exorcisms was not bound to thepriesthood.
In the early church it wasactually like a charism.
So there are two ways you couldmerit the ability to perform an
exorcism.
Was one you were a priest,given the authority and
commissioned by the church, andnow that has to be the case
(40:20):
where you have to havepermission from your bishop to
do an exorcism, to do the rightof exorcism.
But another way to drive outdemons is to be a saint, and
some of the great saints woulddrive out demons simply by being
around possessed people, byjust saying a prayer, like
there's a St John Bosco.
He has a great story, I think Ihave it in my Slaying Dragons
book.
There's a possessed girl in thepews of a church and St John
(40:41):
Bosco came out of the sacristyto say mass and as soon as she
saw him, the demon fled and thepossession case ended.
And St Catherine of Siena, youknow a third order Dominican the
exorcist would send possessedpeople to her because they could
not.
In the end of the possession itwasn't working, so they sent
the possessed person to her andher mere presence, her simple
(41:01):
prayers her.
You know, dismissive commandsagainst the demon would drive
the demon out.
So you do have that.
That diversity, even now, likeif you're holy demons will run
away yeah, it's, it's.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
It's when somebody lives a life of extraordinary
holiness.
They're able to do supernaturalthings because their life is so
similar to Christ.
It's funny because when youread the Gospels and you hear
about Jesus performing thesemiracles, they sound so wild.
But then you think about PadrePio was able to bilocate, and
(41:35):
you think about Padre Pio wasable to buy Locate, and you
think about Padre Pio was ableto pray for somebody and they
would be, and it's like, ofcourse, the son of God was able
to just do whatever he commandedthe world to do.
You know?
Speaker 8 (41:45):
Yeah, and I often wonder about that because, as
we're all talking, you know,we're all weak.
I think this culture makes usmen especially, really weak.
And we're not educated, so wedon't know what we have, what
the powers in the church we have, but we all need to do more.
Like there's the possibilitythat we could be miracle workers
Like St Alphonsus no, who is it?
St Louis de Montfort says thatin the last days of the church,
(42:05):
in the end times, the greatestsaints will emerge, the ones
greater than all the ones thatcame before them.
Like, what if we're in that age?
What if God wants to wake up inus, the supreme holiness?
Are we doing the work?
This is why things like what'sgoing on in Charlotte and other
parts of the world right nowcall us to penance, to real,
(42:26):
powerful penance.
But I preach this message a lot, but it's hard, it's hard for
me to even do it.
But that's where the holinessis, the saints.
Look at them.
They were extreme mendicants,very austere, very penitential,
and if you don't do that, if wedon't pray with that, we're not
going to make it.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
Yeah, it's one thing.
To talk about this stuff isanother to put it into action.
Right, do you know if everyonehas like we all have a guardian
angel?
Do you know if there's a demonfor every person too?
Speaker 8 (42:56):
Well, as I discuss in Slaying Dragons, everybody is
assigned by God's decree aguardian angel.
But then if we happen to have aguardian demon, a demon
assigned to us, it's assigned bySatan who has no authority so
that demon can be removed, canbe driven away, can be swatted
away like a fly by your guardianangel.
(43:16):
So your guardian angel's thereall the time, he's never going
to leave, he's going to escortyou to paradise, but the demons
can be driven away.
So we don't have a demonassigned to us except by the
kingdom of Satan and you canblock that.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
This is not really related, but I think it can be
related.
I don't know if you did anylooking into the connections
that the shooter of theAnnunciation shooting had with
satanic anarchist groups likethe Order of Nine Angles in 764,
(43:55):
I think, or 746, one of the two.
So I was wondering if you'dheard of either of those groups
at all.
And then also like if you knewof any particular saints,
someone you know who was maybestruggling with the issues that
the shooter had.
You know any particular saintsomeone like that could pray to?
Speaker 8 (44:17):
You mean the uh, oh, right, the uh, the demonic
affiliation, or the mental,certain mental issues, Both,
both, I guess.
Yeah, um, yes, I did not hearabout those two groups.
As you all know, I did a lot ofwork, um, for my two occult
books.
So, just you know, plug onehere, the rise of the occult.
Um, I also have two occultbooks.
So just plug one here, the Riseof the Occult.
I also have the Occult Among Us.
(44:37):
I did not.
I eventually had to stop theresearch.
As you can imagine, it can getreally dark, yeah, I would
imagine.
So I didn't go, I didn't runinto those two groups.
I probably could have if I keptgoing.
But the one saint that jumps tomind and he's in that book, the
Rise of the Occult, and he theone we're talking about today is
Blessed Bartolo Longo, who, itseems, will be canonized soon.
He didn't have the same mentalstruggles, but he had the
(45:01):
demonic issues.
Remember, he was a satanicpriest, consecrated satanic
priest, who eventually had amassive conversion and became a
saint.
He knew popes, I think PopePius X.
He may have known maybe XII, Ican't remember when he died
known maybe 12th, I can'tremember when he died.
So his canonization could behuge for the church because that
elevates the prestige he has inthe church, militant, our
(45:23):
attention to him.
He's already a saint, healready has his reward in heaven
.
But our attention, our focus,our connection to that, by
honoring him as a saint, couldunleash a lot of grace for those
people lost in the occult.
Because the occult doesdisfigure the mind, the body,
the soul, everything, justcomplete perversion, complete
inversion.
A lot of the problems we seetoday, moral problems in our
(45:45):
culture, in our world, are a lotof times are tied to the occult
and they do share a samemorality with occult morality.
So it's, it is a very dark,john, uncertain.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
John, I don't want to put Charles on the spot with
that one because he's in atouchy situation in Charlotte.
I'll say for myself I have goneto an SSPX Mass but I don't
want to put Charles in that spotFor an ad spot.
Yes, direct message Rob onTwitter if he follows you.
If not, send him an email.
I just moved from Queens toCharlotte.
Any recommendations on where toattend Mass or who to connect
(46:16):
with?
That's for you, charles.
Speaker 8 (46:18):
Yeah, so Charlotte, if you're in Charlotte you are
close to so many great parishes.
So St Anne's in Charlotte andSt Thomas Aquinas that's where I
go.
We have still, for four moreSundays, the traditional Latin
Mass 1230 and 1130.
To check the Mass times, StAnne's is 1230.
St Thomas Aquinas is 1130.
(46:39):
I don't know if they'readvertised, because you remember
that weird rule from Francisand then that will continue in
October at least.
October 2nd, the Feast of theGuardian Angels, is when it
stops.
How about that?
Isn't that nice, that'sinteresting.
Speaker 6 (46:54):
But yeah, St Anne's and St stops how?
Speaker 8 (46:54):
about that and that.
Nice, that's interesting, nice.
But yeah, saint anne's, I thinkI was a quiet answer to the
great ones.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
We have a lot of good ones, a lot of great priests
yeah, and there's also an sspxdown there too that we attended
when we went that's in mountholly yeah, uh, every year I ask
a patron saint.
Uh, ask, ask a saint to be mypatron for that year.
The saint usually picks me viafirst, via some sign.
Well, ro Robert has a goodquestion Does everyone have a
guardian angel, or just baptizedChristians?
Speaker 8 (47:18):
Yeah, every single human being on the planet ever
created.
You have a guardian angelBecause God destines all of us
to be his children.
Most of us don't.
There are a lot of children ofGod in hell, unfortunately, but
most of us don't make it to thatadoption and a lot of us don't
make it to that adoption and alot of us don't make it to
heaven.
But everybody does have aguardian angel yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
So Charles did say he's going to fly around nine
o'clock, okay.
So what is the name of the newbook?
Let's plug that.
Rob.
Speaker 8 (47:48):
Yeah, we get that book up.
The Most Powerful Saints andExorcisms what Exorcists Want
you to Know?
And actually I'm glad youbrought it up.
I do have eight copies of thisbook on my website,
slayingdragonspresscom.
These are the only signedcopies, signed by me, that are
available because Sophiapublished this one.
I've published six of my own,but Sophia published this one,
(48:09):
so any book you buy from them orAmazon is not going to be
signed.
But if you get it from me,there are eight copies.
It's up now on my website andI'll sign them for you.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Is there a hardcover?
Speaker 8 (48:19):
version?
As far as I know, there is not.
But check Sophia, and all Ihave are paperback.
Check Sophia and Amazon, You'dthink they would.
I don't know how they operate.
I always do a hardcover too,but there are always extra costs
involved with hardcovers.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
Charles, thank you for coming on.
Man, we, honestly, you guys,pick up any of Charles's books.
You're going to be happy.
Speaker 6 (48:41):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
Slaying dragon is a legendary book.
At this point, everybody,everybody should have that one.
But anything you pick up fromCharles is going to be good.
And yeah, like I said, we wetypically don't interview
authors, because we did have aPatrick O'Hearn on, also for his
courtship with the saintscourtship with the saints.
So tell Patrick, we said helloand we will.
(49:06):
Yeah.
So all right, we'll get you onfor the next, for the next book,
which I'm sure you'll pump outbooks constantly.
Speaker 8 (49:21):
Yeah, I've got several coming.
Speaker 3 (49:21):
This keeps my possibly going awesome.
All right, thanks for joiningus, brother.
Thank you, have a good night.
Have a good night, take care um, yeah, he's always fun yeah I
like supporting him.
It's like uh, yeah, therereally are very few like,
because sophia asked us all thetime right.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Yeah, I get emails from Sophia and Tan a lot and
you know they're all good books,which is why we can't do them
all.
Speaker 3 (49:43):
It's not just that If I haven't read it I don't know
what questions to ask, right?
But like Charles' books arepretty, you know they were
pretty easy to ask questions ofCharles pretty, you know they
were pretty easy to askquestions of charles.
I didn't even have his chaptersout or anything where, and it's
different if you'reinterviewing an author where
you've read their book or I'vetalked to them a few times yeah,
(50:04):
exactly, but you know,typically it's it's.
And also, if you make the showabout the author and the book
you don't usually like.
Even when taylor came on, whenwe put his book title like
people thought it was just goingto be an interview about his
book and they missed a goodinterview, cause that was a lot.
That was a really goodinterview with Taylor, um, but
(50:25):
you you're better off titling itsomething else and then you get
you wind up getting more, uh,viewers on it.
Now tonight's show we we talkedabout knowles and tucker, but I
really think we should havetalked about frad and um scott
hahn.
I did not watch that I watchedalmost all of it and I can't
(50:45):
believe how apocalyptic scotthahn is about the situation in
the church really very similarthings that that I've said about
it, in that a lot of what hewas suggesting is that the
current hierarchy, and even thePope, are prefigured by the, the
(51:06):
high priest and the Sanhedrinin the old, in the old right.
So when we see these betrayalsby the hierarchy, it shouldn't
surprise us, because we've seenthis before and that's always
how I kind of understood thepassion of the church is, by
seeing that, as the type Likeunderstanding, the high priest
(51:30):
betrays Christ and the Sanhedrin, they convict him.
And to see it happening in ourown church shouldn't surprise us
, because it's actually thestory and how it's playing out,
and I think, I think, if not,that we'll ever be able to get
Scott Hahn, because we'reblacklisted from anybody that's
(51:51):
ever had any kind of notoriety.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
I knew we were going to get back into this.
Speaker 3 (52:02):
Anybody, anybody that's ever had any kind of
notoriety.
I knew.
We knew we were gonna get backinto this.
Anybody, anybody that's evenremotely notable in that world,
refuses to talk to us.
Um, but if I ever got him on, Iwould want to run.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Just remember, we did choose to be the heel of
catholic media that's fine, butcome on man, come on man.
It's coming from our and nowwe're gonna be tradding too.
Speaker 3 (52:17):
Man, we're gonna be the worst let me tell you
something it's gonna be gloriouswhen, when we're so big that
they want to come on our showbecause they want to promote
their thing, and I go you didn'thelp us on the way up.
Now you, you pretended youdidn't see my dm the way up, or
you were on our show seven timesand never.
(52:38):
I had to have scholars on.
Oh, you need scholars on yourshow, do you Scholars?
Yeah, that's on the other side.
We're doing that on the otherside.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
I'm not doing it as in theologians, not inner city
youth.
Speaker 3 (52:53):
You draw cartoons, bro.
You won't come on our show.
You freaking draw cartoons, areyou?
Kidding me.
Speaker 2 (53:02):
That's going to be a classic.
You were so loud, your micdecided to turn itself off.
I'm serious.
Speaker 3 (53:19):
I'm sure I saw the thing read out.
It's just oh, it's coming backnow.
Oh it's, it was totally off no,not completely but it totally.
Yeah, did you at least hearwhat I said a little bit?
All right, good, I'll do it.
On the other side, I love theScott Hahn.
(53:39):
The whole thing was about theapocalypse and the antichrist.
It was amazing.
Yeah, me too.
Me too.
I would have liked to like him.
Speaker 2 (53:50):
No he's Irish.
Speaker 3 (53:52):
I don't even care, we'll do it on the other side.
I'm not even talking about him,he's irish.
I don't even care, we'll do iton the other side.
I'm not even talking about him,he's just one he's the one that
said.
He's the one that said antelopethough you just you, just like
I've just had it, like Ihonestly I've just had it.
If I had a show, I'd have youon jd's thanks, jd.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
Jd don't, I thought you did kind of.
I mean, granted, it was havingyour daughter taste mres, right,
so I understand not having uson that.
Speaker 3 (54:20):
But listen, let me tell you something about seamus.
He married a girl from myparish and didn't get aunt's
permission.
No, but like you married a girlfrom my parish.
We've met you.
You really Like, are you toogood for it?
I don't care, piss off, haveall your cartoons, I don't care.
(54:41):
I'll never ask again.
I'm not doing that.
I don't care.
I have like a limit to where Ican be pushed Like it's just
like enough, enough, enough'senough.
And there's others, there'sothers, there's others.
There's people that have beenon this show, people that have
(55:02):
been on this show that I just,like you are so pompous.
Oh my God, all the people thatwe work around are like this man
.
It's sad.
Some kid DM'd me two days agoand he's like hey, man, like we
would love to get you on.
I'm like all right, yeah, I'mlike I'm busy the next few weeks
.
We set a date in october.
(55:22):
The guy's got 200 subscribers,it's like I don't.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
I don't understand why people think they're so
important like now.
I'm have to read now, you'reright.
Did I get back to zealots den?
Speaker 3 (55:29):
you should, because people well, I know you told me
like I said we need to tell themwe're busy till oct.
Speaker 2 (55:35):
I just don't remember if I did that.
If you're watching this and Ididn't, I'm sorry.
Yeah, we ought to look.
Speaker 3 (55:41):
The next several weeks are mayhem for Rob and I,
between the baptism going toDetroit, between I booked a show
with Catholic Unscripted onColumbus Day, like there's so
many things going on right now,so you guys got to, like anybody
that does ask, look, even ifsomebody said to me, hey man,
(56:01):
I'd love to come on, I'm justbusy, that would be enough for
me.
Don't pretend you don't hear me.
Don't pretend you don't knowwho I am.
Speaker 2 (56:09):
You know what?
We don't need him.
We had Gibson, we had Mel.
Speaker 3 (56:12):
But that's the point, right.
Gibson came, had gibson, we hadmel.
Yeah, but that's the point,right.
Oh, gibson came on our show.
That, that's a guy that has ana-list hollywood celebrity, mel
gibson stooped down.
He was humble enough to come ona show, on some no-name show,
when we had what?
8 000 subscribers or something.
It's not.
It's not.
It's not rejection, it's like.
It's more like people love theesteem of men and it's like, oh
(56:39):
well, I have to make sure thepeople I associate with are are
esteemed men as well, so thatpeople think highly of me.
That's what.
That's what I don't like.
Yeah, if you guys haven'trealized.
The show is anthony's therapythis was not supposed to be on
the youtube side.
(57:00):
Let's go to the other side.
Speaker 2 (57:01):
Okay, this, but before everyone on youtube over
here.
Before you leave, watch thevideo I play before we end the
youtube portion because it isawesome.
So anything else to say beforebefore I play this we go over no
, we'll play that, and then I'llcontinue the.
Speaker 3 (57:21):
I'll continue my rage on the other side, because
there's plenty more man okay,guys, enjoy this all.
Speaker 5 (57:38):
Come to the peace of heaven and earth.
Come to the table of mentee.
God will provide for all thatwe need here at the table of
mentee.
Speaker 4 (57:54):
Oh, come and sit at my table when saints and sinners
are friends, my way to welcomethe lost and know me to share
the cup of my love.
Come to the peace of heaven andearth.
(58:19):
Come to the table of plenty.
Speaker 5 (58:24):
God will provide for all that we need here at the
table of plenty.
Thank you,
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