Mixed Emotions on the Death of Pope Francis

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Sancte, sancte, amare morti necradas nos.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
I didn't.
Yeah, we didn't think anopening video would be
appropriate, so we figured we'djust drop in raw guys.
Man, this is, I didn't think itwould ever end.
In all honesty, dropping rawguys man, this is, I didn't
think it would ever end Like inall honesty.
Even when he got sick a fewweeks back, I'm like part of me

(00:54):
was just like nah, this guy'snot going to croak, he's not
going to, he's going to bearound for a while.
My heart breaks for Rob afterhearing the Carlo news.
Oh, so Carlo Acudis'canonization got pushed back,
which is appropriate.
For a while, my heart breaksfor rob after hearing the call-o
news.
Oh, it's a call-o acutus is umuh, canonization got pushed back
, which is appropriate yeah, butpushing you back for forever
might be appropriate too the.

(01:16):
I really didn't, um, I reallydidn't think it would happen
like so suddenly, like really Iwas not expecting this at all.
Man, like I think he would knowthe hospital stint I don't know
, man to me it.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
I figured they were sending him home out of the
hospital to spend the last fewweeks of his life you did say
that you did.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
You definitely did say, like when you, when you saw
the first picture of him, youlike I was like I don't know,
man, maybe he's gonna.
You're be like, no, that guy'sat the end.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
And you know what?
I'm glad he was able to spendhis last few weeks back home.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
There's this conversation going on on Twitter
that I see, and I saw RickBarrett saying stuff, but
everybody's like the Catholic.
Look, don't you know?
The catholic commentators aregonna get do whatever they can
to get clicks out of this.
But it's like dude, we'recatholic commentators and the
pope died.
Like are we not supposed tocome on and have a conversation

(02:16):
about it, like this is?
It's not about clicks, it'slike I mean it's not even.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
It's not even just that we're, we're catholic guys,
right like yes, that's what Imean.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
All I wanted to do is talk to catholic friends.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Today I work with a bunch of freaking heathens
especially from like all theprotestants and non-catholics
that work today, had a ton ofquestions, like sure.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
Now you know you're interested now yeah dude, I I
had nobody to talk to all day.
All I wanted to do was hearcatholic commentators talking
about this issue.
So it's like to me it's justcrazy to jump in that position
where you're like you're notallowed to talk about this, it's
inappropriate.
It's like look, here's thething.
There's like different wayspeople are going about this.

(02:56):
I see I saw one commentatorthis morning I won't name like
self-flagellating himself andI'm like I don't know.
It's like what are you doingthere?
Then I saw't name likeself-flagellating himself and
I'm like I don't know it's.
It's like what are you doingthere?
Then I saw other people likecoming out and like even the Dr
Kwasniewski's response Like I dothink there's an appropriate
way to go about it, where it'snot Francis was the greatest

(03:18):
thing ever, or you know, he wasthe worst thing the church has
ever seen.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
I don't know.
I think this is just a way tojust be honest Right, be honest
and respectful.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
It's pretty simple.
There has been some amazingthings that have happened under
Francis, unintentionally,unintentionally, the three of us
don't know each other withoutFrancis.
It's possible.
I guess, unintentionally, likeI, the three of us don't know
each other without francis.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
I mean it's possible, I guess.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
But like the whole idea of us doing a show together
, things like that, like that isa direct, uh like effect of
francis, like that's the franciseffect.
That francis effect was peoplethat he was like this divider
who was like you know, you wereeither in the where Peter is
crowd or you kind of were atraditional or or even a

(04:10):
conservative Catholic who wasjust like like your alarm bells
were going off and you're likethere's something off here and
you kind of dug deeper into yourfaith and it I mean I've made
so many fricking friendshipsbecause of the conversations
that we've had on this show andjust I mean I don made so many
freaking friendships because ofthe conversations that we've had
on this show and just I mean Idon't know there's so many good
things about this pontificatethat you can remember, without

(04:32):
trashing Francis necessarily.
I mean the guy did just pass.
Today I don't want to say youknow, but to also pretend
everything's been fine.
I mean, have you guys everknown somebody who lost a parent
when, like maybe the mother wassuper overbearing or something
and and the child said likethere was a relief, and they

(04:53):
feel guilty saying it like, butthere was a relief there when
the parent passed yeah, I havenot.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
I've heard people describe it, though I've never
known someone in my personallife that's been in that
situation I mean there was arelief when my dad passed, you
know, and like I just kind ofreconciled with him honestly
just months prior, yeah, um, therelief.
Yeah, yeah, I mean there wasdefinitely relief and I think

(05:22):
his passing in me being a fathernow helped me better come to
terms with his fatherhood andwhere you know he had his
failings, um, well, I know, Iknow someone who um very close
to me and their mother like hadsuch high demands on the and it

(05:45):
was a very like performancebased love you know.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
So like if, if this person didn't do exactly what
the mother wanted, they werelike you know the mother would
be furious with them andwouldn't talk to them, shun them
and stuff like that.
Now, when you have, if you'reespecially for women, if you're
a woman and you have a mother,like that I could understand
there being a relief where youdon't have the pressure anymore
right To perform and things likethat.
So I've seen it in naturalfamilies like that.

(06:10):
And the thing is it's been arough 12 years, man.
Like it's been a really rough12 years for Catholics who take
their faith seriously.
It's been nonstop beatings ofjust playing games with the
faith, playing games withdoctrine, pushing the limit on
things.
Every freaking week there wasanother news story that

(06:32):
everybody had to cover and it'slike you get this, you get this
reputation that like, oh, you'rejust a francis craig, but it's
like what the hell?

Speaker 2 (06:39):
like I just want to talk to people about what I'm
seeing I think also, like,especially for the over, over
the last, what is it For almostfour years now, of of
traditionalness custodians?
Like, yeah, Like you know,those of us who are trad, you
know whatever that means, likewe've really lived under um a

(07:02):
tyranny of sorts Right now.
I mean not mean, not, notanything like yeah, it's not
physical right.
Right, it's not like full-onpersecution or anything, but
like we've lived under thetyranny of a father that you
know we feel like honestlydidn't love us yeah, right, yeah
, I mean and and like when, um,when the whole stupid umod thing

(07:24):
started right and they had thediocesan phase where they
invited you to go and speak yourconcerns, like I went to our
diocese stupid little synodmeeting and for everyone else it
was like, oh, we need thechurch to do more about social
issues, we need the church to domore about drug abuse.
And I stood up and told himlike I feel like my church, like

(07:45):
my spiritual father's, like youas bishop and our pope don't
like me and honestly dislike meand in my family and and now
it's just like that tyranny isover, you know, and whether or
not a new tier is?

Speaker 3 (07:59):
we hope I don't know right, but the tyranny of franc
is over.
So well, nick, I watched yourshow today and I do see a change
in a lot of your demeanor, achange in a lot of your approach
.
I don't know if that wasthrough reflection over Lent and
stuff.
I think you probably focused alot more on your interior life

(08:21):
and you're paying a lot closerattention to the things you're
saying online, things like that.
So I wasn't sure howcomfortable you'd be with this
conversation, even you know, butI don't like.
Do you think there's anythingwrong with us?
Just, I mean, this isn't a bashfrancis session, it's more.
Just, dude, it has been a.
It's an emotional rollercoaster that we've been through

(08:44):
for the past 12 years.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
And it's only the third death of a pope in my
lifetime, and it's only thesecond death of a reigning pope
in my lifetime, right, so it's abig event.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
Well, not just that, not just that.
Well, I'll let you answer first, nick.

Speaker 4 (09:02):
Well, I was just going to say I had a person
reach out to me asking mythoughts this morning and I was
looking at all the differentcommentators that you mentioned
and I said to myself there's afine line between canonization
and condemnation, and that kindof seems to be the two general
trajectories that I see Somepeople are lauding everything
you did, and what's kind ofscary, just on a supernatural
level, is it's a lot of themainstream media and people just

(09:25):
saying like he's in heaven,he's in heaven, and it's just
like no, we don't know that weactually, like it's charitable
to pray for him, like cause, wedon't.
We don't know that outside ofsome type of divine revelation
or something.
And then there's, of course,going to be the other people who
you know it was like it didn'tmatter any tiny good thing he
could have done, it was stillthe worst thing ever.
And so you should talk aboutthis.

(09:47):
You have to talk about it,though, I think, in the level
that's appropriate.
It's like first you have to dounto others as you would have
them do to you, so it's likehe's died.
We should pray for his soul and, in tandem with that, we should
pray for the next pope, becauseit's like this next pope.
I don't know if you guys havelooked at like the, the like
kind of generally like 10 to 12potential lead figures.
There's like four of them thatare kind of solid.

(10:09):
We'll get we'll get into.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
We'll get into that, we'll, we'll dive.
I do want to touch on this,this comment rob highlighted,
though.
So, as a as a person looking toconvert, this was my first
easter attending a catholicchurch and the pope dies the
next day.
I'm trying to make sense allthis.
So there's also this fine lineof there's a ton of new
Catholics, nick, you included,who have never been through this

(10:31):
and never really experiencedthe conclave, right Like you
came in in 2020.
You don't, you weren't payingattention to Catholic politics
back in the last conclave, right.

Speaker 4 (10:41):
So I actually, I actually was, because I'm that,
that nerd, but aside from that,but it, but it was nothing like
this.
I mean, I was, I was a kid.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
You know that was 2013, yeah and you didn't have
much vested interest in it likeso much.
It was more just like a worldlyevent that was happening.
But for me, I vividly rememberbenedict's election and I also
remember um francis's electionvery, very vividly.
So now there's all these newCatholics that come in and this

(11:09):
is their first conclave and it'slike, yeah, like there's a,
there's a period of a morningthat we go through, but then
there is something superexciting about electing a new
Pope and especially if you're anew Catholic, it's like I just
came into the church and likepeople just came in two days ago
and they're getting a new pope,like that is an exciting event

(11:30):
and it's.
I do think that this conclave isgoing to be one of the most
consequential in church history,like not just our lifetimes in
church history.
I think this could be the mostconsequential papal election.
And I do also have this reallydaunting feeling that we're

(11:51):
going to look back on theFrancis pontificate with
fondness, saying, oh man, we hadit easy back then, like because
things get exceedingly worsefor us, like we do not know what
the future holds right now.
Very true, I find myselfgrateful for how awful the
protestants have been behaving.
They're forcing me to defendhim and see my own faults for

(12:11):
not having the highest opinionof him, forcing me to pray for a
lot, and that's that's anotherthing I had.
I had to force myself to prayfor him today because there was
no, there was no um naturalinclination to do it, but I knew
it was the just thing to do.
So I had to force myself topray for Francis today.
It wasn't easy, but I hopepeople pray for me when I'm gone

(12:34):
, whether they love me or hateat me.

Speaker 4 (12:36):
Yeah, I mean, think about it.
If you're a soul that's nowdied, it's attached from its
body and you're before theparticular judgment immediately
upon your death.
You're judged for every thought, word and deed you did.
What did you believe, how didyou love?
And because of your station inlife as pope, you will be judged
way more strictly.
This is why, like I do—I saidthis morning like I am genuinely

(13:00):
sorry Not because you guys arewrong when it comes to like, I
think he had a psychologicalterror.
I think that's the best way todescribe it, because, you know,
for me, I was always just like Idon't know.
Is my parish going to getcanceled?
I don't know I don't know.
And then, when it did, it's agood way to describe it exactly.
It's scary, but then it's like,even with that, it's like he

(13:21):
was still our father and likethe only thing that we should do
, if we're called to love oneanother, as christ loved us, is
to pray for him.
Of course we're going to havethese conversations about his
legacy, that those have tohappen because we can't just
continue being like everythingwas fine, etc.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
That's no, I.
What I've chosen to do isreally think about how many,
because every single good thingthat's ever happened in my life
came through a cross.
What I've chosen to do isreally think about how many,
because every single good thingthat's ever happened in my life
came through across like itreally did.
And every single good thingthat comes in your life doesn't
come easy.
It's there's some kind ofhardship to it, and all of the
hardships you think you facedover the last 12 years, none of

(14:00):
it was none of.
It was physical, physical, umpersecution, right.
So it was all psychologicaltorment, but there was also some
beautiful friendships that Imade through it.
There was, I mean, I man.
So I guess we'll jump into lenta little bit um, we'll don't

(14:20):
forget.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
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Speaker 2 (15:04):
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Speaker 3 (15:17):
They're great gifts for mother's day, they're great
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They let us say whatever wewant.
So if you guys want to helpsupport the show, go buy a
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Day and that helps us out.
So Lent so I went to the EasterVigil Saturday night and it

(15:38):
links into the Traditiona thingbecause I have to drive an hour
and a half to go to a properliturgy, one of those things I
have to drive an hour and a halfto go to a proper liturgy.
But while I was sitting there Ihad this overwhelming joy come
over me.
While I'm at the, at the vigil,I was staring up at the cross,
at um, at holy innocence, and itbrought me back to which I

(16:00):
think I talked to you guys alittle bit about it on the show
where I was weeping in front ofthe altar, when I was at like a
really rock bottom place in mylife and my marriage, everything
, and I just remember being sobroken and like begging God for
help and then just being angrywith him because he hadn't
helped me yet.
And it's like you promised toset us free.

(16:21):
Why am I not free?
It was about five years ago thathappened and I'm in front of
that same altar and thisoverwhelming joy came over me
and it was like there were threeprayers I asked God to answer
and he answered all three ofthem.
And it was during thistumultuous time in the church
that God answered three majorlife determining prayers of mine

(16:46):
.
And it's like I just had thisfeeling of joy come over me and
it was like holy cow, like God,you answer every one of my
prayers.
You freaking love me.
I know there's nothing I couldask that you won't answer, so I
prayed a couple of more prayersin front of that altar.
That has to do with my kids,but it's like all this mayhem
going on and I have to drive anhour and a half but I don't know

(17:07):
, man, I've I haven't felt god'spresence like that in a in a
while and that's and it's likethere's no better thing to be
than catholic, even through allthese crazy things that we're
talking about praise god, yeahno, I agree, that's awesome.

(17:36):
I'd love to go up it's such apretty church on the photos that
I see and tried to like fall inlove with fasting.
And I'm not going back toliving like I was, like I'm
going to stay doing what I wasdoing and just treat Sundays as
feast days and just try to livethat life of fast, fast, fast
feast, because it really is theepitome of what a traditional

(17:59):
lifestyle is.
It's like if you're not livinga life like that where you're
saving your feast days to bespecial and important, you're
kind of a life like that whereyou're saving your feast days to
be special and important,you're kind of just saying words
.
At that point, you don'tactually live the Catholic faith
.

Speaker 4 (18:12):
Yeah, there's this part in mystical theology where
it's like if we're attached tostuff like food or whatever, we
can't even properly enjoy it,because if we're asked to let it
go, we're these irrationalcreatures who are just like,
just like.
No, give me more.
I.
I cling to this, even thoughthere's the objective good of
god.
But when we do detach ourselvesand we're attached to god, then

(18:32):
we can go back and rightlyenjoy whatever the thing was um,
the the thing is, when I brokethat 40 hour fast, I felt awful,
oh really terrible.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
I was just like, why did I eat?
I could have made it longer too.
I was like I just I only wentto 40 hours and then, like, I
was like, oh, I guess it's timeto eat, but I easily could have
kept going.
So I think, you know, I mighttry to do something like that,
like once a week or once everytwo weeks or something.
But, um, molly said she'sfeeling very attacked right now.
Um, now, okay, so now whathappens with the, the bishops

(19:11):
that francis punished, rightlike the stricklands, and, uh,
um, cardinal burke?
right, it all depends on whatthe next book does well, that's,
that's what I'm saying like wedon't know what the future holds
.
It's really and there issomething to the pontificating
on what the future holds.

(19:31):
But we're here now.
We're coming up on a papalconflict.
I think they kind of broke uswith the warm-up a few weeks ago
, because we kind of all hadthese conversations a few weeks
ago thinking Francis was on hisdeathbed, but now he's gone.
And it really the politicalintrigue going on behind the

(19:52):
walls of the Vatican right now,everybody just politicking and
trying to figure out what, who,whose guy is going to get in.
I, I don't know man.

Speaker 4 (20:02):
I don't have a good feeling about it.
I saw it was interesting.
I saw Sarat trending on Twitterearlier, like early this
morning, and I'm not saying thatthat's, of course, like
indicative of anything asidefrom just a lot of people liking
that idea.
But yeah, no, this is whereit's like.
Generally, people have to prayfor the conclave because, like
there are some good candidates,because I don't think Sarat will

(20:23):
get in.
I pray that he will, but if hewas, that would be amazing
because, as we all know, he'sinsanely holy.
He's also very, very prudentand he has his eyes open when it
comes to the situation withIslam and with the migrant
crisis and things along thatnature.
Pete Zabala would also be, Ithink, a pretty decent choice

(20:47):
because he would not only atleast move the church into a
more like liturgically traddyway and like a decent, sound
orthodoxy of truth, um, but alsowhen it comes to the middle
east issues, right, he's prettywell as elected.
He's gonna reign 33 days likejp1, because the israelis will
kill him yeah, I was gonna sayit might be, might be fairly
short, because he's he, he's'sopen in his opposition.
And then there's I'd obviouslylove to see Burke right, just

(21:10):
because it'd be kind of cool tohave an American pope.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
Not going to happen, but Pretty doubtful.

Speaker 4 (21:15):
But you know, I mean the thing I don't know.
See, like, what I'm praying forgenuinely and I'm asking God
with expectant faith and thenalso just trusting him.
If this doesn't happen, I'mpraying that we have some type
of St Pius V type figure whereyou know, if you look at that
period after Luther'sReformation, you know the popes

(21:36):
they came in but it was justthey couldn't do anything.
You know what I'm saying.
Like it, your, all, your clergyis like messed up sexually
mostly.
You know there's land problemseverywhere, northern Europe's
apostatizing.
You know every, all the ordersare infighting, you know calling
each other heretics.
And then St Pius V shows up andhe just like, by the almighty

(21:58):
hand of God, clean stuff outthrough the power, especially
through the power of the rosary,and I'm praying that that's
what happens.
You know God rides straight withcrooked lines and so he could
take a situation where, forinstance, like, let's just say
it's a moderate candidate.
Because there's two thingseveryone has to know about all
the cardinals that the HolyFather has elected.
One is that they all have moreso pastoral backgrounds than

(22:21):
they do academic, which can geta little.
There's good and bad in that.
And then, two, they all comefrom the peripheries, so like
there's cardinals now frommongolia, there's cardinals from
parts of africa that have neverbeen represented.
But the hopeful good thing wecan actually have in this is
because so many of these placesare in the third world which are

(22:42):
more socially conservative,perhaps there is a good chance
that we do have at least on likesexual ethics, especially like
a conservative pope who holdsthe line yeah, and you never
know if the grace, that ifgraces, will come with the
office and convert somebody.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
But, um, yeah, I don't know.
I think that that's the kind ofthing we yeah, that is
absolutely false.
I think we're just going tohave to wait and see what
happens with that, but I kind ofjust have this feeling that
it's not going to get better yet.
It's just not.
I really think we're going tolook back on the Francis papacy

(23:23):
and be like it wasn't so bad.
We didn't know what we had whenwe had it.

Speaker 4 (23:28):
It may not, but I guess I don't know.
I'm sometimes an eternaloptimist, but I guess what my
hope is is it's like this If wedo, let's say, get the, what is
it like?
The prefect for Vatican State,that Italian one?
He's really bad.
I mean he's like bad, I meanhe's yeah.

(23:48):
Yeah, he's the like they.
They suspect he's the ghostwriter of tc and so getting
someone who's like even moreanti-tlm in there, um, would be
that might be, that might bebetter, I don't know like I
almost don't want a moderate manlike I, kind of I worry about
the moderate.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
The moderate moderate makes me nervous, Rob.
I want to play a clip of howthe mainstream media is handling
this, because this is the thingthat's going to drive me the
craziest.
I just put it as mainstreammedia glazing.
The way they're framing this isjust infuriating.
This is just what they're goingto do, though.

(24:25):
So you got it, Rob.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Sadness that Pope Francis' papacy has come to an
end, the 88-year-old passingaway early this morning after an
extended illness, but just oneday after a surprise appearance
on Easter Sunday, francis wasthe people's pope, reaching out,
embracing, including the sick,the poor, the forgotten, pushing

(24:51):
himself even as he becamevisibly frail, needing a cane
and a wheelchair.
Austin Ivory co-authored a bookwith Francis.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
I think we're going to get a copy right now.

Speaker 4 (25:02):
I want to pause it for a second.
Yeah, do a few pauses.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
Do a few pauses.
So this is so.
Even Francis was the people'sPope right.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, unless you're white or trad or conservative.

Speaker 3 (25:16):
This is where they're going to get into how Francis
is the first Pope who evertalked about the poor and love
and, you know, totally differentfrom all the.

Speaker 4 (25:25):
Popes of the past.
Yeah, the ABC article or thevideo that came out on like Good
Morning America or somethinglike that.
It was like five minutes.
Three and a half of the minuteswere devoted to homosexuality.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
Yeah, let's go, we'll get into it.
It goes there.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
He's encountering people, he's performing the
gospel, and without that for himthere's no 20 papacy for him.
In more than a decade, as popefrancis moved the catholic
church away from the culturewars and back to its original
mission of love and mercy,throwing open the doors of the
church to all, this is insanethey moved the church away from

(26:04):
the culture wars, are you?

Speaker 4 (26:06):
joking me Climate change, migrant crisis.

Speaker 3 (26:10):
He just joined the other side in those debates, but
the culture war within thechurch has never been more
pronounced.

Speaker 4 (26:20):
Yeah, especially and again I'm trying to approach it
delicately, but it's likeBenedict they hated Benedict.
They made fun of Benedict allthe time because he was the
ivory tower theologian who, atleast on social issues, was
fairly conservative.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
Benedict was just as bad with climate change and
stuff, though.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
Oh no, I know, but I'm like— he was just as bad
with that stuff.
But when it came to sexualethics, like he, he was at least
more like pronounced or justsaying no.
But the line.
The line that I really don'tlike is when he says they open
the doors to all because it'slike I literally had my doors
shut and I'm not allowed to havemass in a church, like I mean
that that's the thing where it'slike again, I'm like I'm trying

(27:01):
to show as much like respect Ican, but, but it's like I
literally lost my actualphysical church and so did 700
other people and they they justthis last week.
Uh, we have a friend of mine,actually, who's in the chat, who
was, uh there the week before,but in Detroit they shut down.
I think it was 38 traditionalLatin mass parishes 38 in one
week.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah, All right.
Well, first off, real quick.
I just want to say I will be onwith Joe McLean on Joe's show.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Wednesday morning.

Speaker 3 (27:30):
Wednesday morning at seven 30.
I'll be on with Joe McLean,then we I have a lot of.
I took Wednesday off.
So Wednesday is going to be ajam packed day.
I have I'm doing Joe's show inthe morning, then at 10 AM on
our channel I have MichaelHichborn and Mark Lambert, and
then at 10 am on our channel Ihave michael hitchborn and mark
lambert, and then at 1 pm I havekatherine bennett.
Just me and her are going tohave a conversation, and then at

(27:50):
eight o'clock that night kalezeldin is going to join me and
rob nick.
You can join us for that one ifyou want.
Um, so I took wednesday off.
We're gonna you guys are gonnaget like five shows that day.

Speaker 4 (27:59):
So, um, yeah, we'll go from there but um, the five
dollar super chat to give themsome energy.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
Yeah honestly, I took a day off of work, so if you
guys want to throw me a tip,it'd be appreciated.
But um the um.
This is the kind of stuff thatmakes it difficult to look on
francis's papacy with any kindof fondness.
It's like it was just one thingafter another and just the
confusion.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
And not even that.
I've been trying to not besuper negative all day about him
, but I can't sit and watchthese absolute lies being
parroted and not just be angryabout it.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
Yeah, but that's the thing.
He kind of set the stage forthis and he never clarified any
of it and he never.
You know what I mean.
It's not like the news is lyingabout what he did, like that.
No no, no was the point of whatfrancis was doing.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
To put that, message ultimately responsible for for
it.
I don't disagree there, butyeah no, the lie.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
What you're talking about.
The lie is to act as if thechurch never was open to
everybody and like that is thatis the lie.
As if Francis is the first Popewho ever cared for the poor, or
I mean it's just insane the waythese people see things through
a lens.
It's so ridiculous.
Like it.
It.
It is frustrating man, and it'sit's a difficult thing to

(29:24):
swallow.
And you think about all thegood people who were punished
because they spoke out and justsaid hey, there's something
about like I don't know man.
Like is the next Pope going tobe Catholic?
Like what do we do If the guythat?
What if it's Parolin that comesout?
Like we have tapes of Parolinendorsing homosexuality.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
Like things like that .

Speaker 3 (29:47):
Like what do you like what do?

Speaker 2 (29:48):
you do with that.
Francis wrote the forward toJim Martin's book.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
So yeah, it's not too much worse.

Speaker 4 (29:55):
If it's something like that, then we've kind of
talked about it before, but it'slike it's one of those
situations where if the guy isopenly going into the position
well if the guy is openly goinginto the position well known by
everybody, hey, this guy doesnot hold the catholic faith.
Then it's like okay, does he?

Speaker 3 (30:11):
there can't be peaceful acceptance of that guy
right like we have to be up inarms, like, like we really do
have to be and it is, look it's.
There's never been a moreexciting time to be catholic.
But man, I'm very worried aboutthe crop of candidates they're
putting forward, like when I,when I look at that list of guys
that they're talking aboutbeing Papa B-Late, it's like

(30:33):
holy cow, we're in trouble,that's, that's the way it goes.

Speaker 4 (30:36):
Yeah, no it's.
It's one of those things where,um, yeah, yeah, it's scary.
I think about just all thedoctrinal ambiguities.
I mean the one that was bigger.
The biggest issue for me wasthe one last year I think it was
in summer, but it was the allreligions lead to God comment,

(31:05):
yeah, 2013, where, like outsideof like ewt and a few like
catholic answers apologetics,there was no catholic like
online media presence.
Like there is today, nothingeven close.
Everyone's gonna be watchingcommentating.
So if there is gonna be like a,a quote-unquote peaceful
acceptance, it's gonna onlyprobably be with a guy who's
fairly orthodox.
Other than that, people aregonna be up in arms the.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
Uh, somebody's talking about going orthodox.
Like.
I'll tell you one thing thatalso happened to me while I was
um at at the liturgy on onsaturday.
Uh, yeah, devin said it don'tgo orthodox, don't, don't, don't
, like you'd be an idiot to goorthodox, I'm sorry.
Like everything we're talkingabout, it's the catholic church.

(31:43):
Is the church that the devil isafter.
For a reason like this is allthe things we're seeing are
because the church is the brideof christ.
Like the catholic church is thechurch.
There's no such.
It's so funny when you hear theorthodox talk about like
orthodoxy using a denomination.
It's the one true church.
Like you guys don't agree witheach other which one?

(32:03):
which one, which one of the 50or 60 of it?
Like what are you even talkingabout?
It's silly to me, Like it's noteven a viable option, I think.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
I think If Catholicism isn't true, it's all
false.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
Exactly, that's literally what it is.

Speaker 4 (32:16):
It's like Well it's also a prideful argument because
like subliminally behind theargument, if it's not doctrine
and it's, I don't like this guybecause I feel like he's pushing
like leftist social policy.
It's like this is the height ofpride.
You're telling me that you'relooking for this perfect church
in the sense that there areactual, experientially righteous
, perfect people.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
When you show up to that place, you'll make it
imperfect whole point of thelike the church is so integral
to the gospel, like that thechurch is is the vehicle by
which god converts the worldlike it's I'm sorry but it is
the, it is the mechanism thatgod uses.
There is, there is not even likethe slightest, but I look, I I

(33:00):
have uh, um, like uh, uh I don'twhat would even be the word
Like I have like a softnesstowards the East because I think
things are so messy right nowthat people are just trying to
find their own way, definitely alittle gay for the Ortho Bros.
Yeah, but the idea that that'sthe true church is just
preposterous.
I'm sorry, it's just a sillything.
I get people going therebecause that's the only place

(33:23):
they can find sanity.
I get people going therebecause that's the only place
they can find sanity.
But if you're saved there, it'snot because you're there.
It would be in spite of youbeing there, Like it's not.
You know, I don't know.
I just think that it is prettycrazy and the things that we're

(33:44):
talking about, like even Robsaying like sometimes he'll get
stuck having to freaking go tosome terrible liturgy because he
has no choice to go.
You know, people have to dowhat they can to live a
Christian life under the currentcircumstances.
So I kind of I have sympathyfor it, Right, I mean, I hate
that I have to drive two hoursto go to church sometimes.
Sometimes it's an hour,sometimes a little less, but
it's.
You know, you got to make somesacrifices right now.
It is what it is and I'm fully,fully confident that God is

(34:08):
going to intervene.
But I really do think we'recoming to that point where it's
going to look like all hope islost and then God will intervene
and you'll go.
This is very clearly Godintervening, it will be
unmistakable.

Speaker 4 (34:21):
Or like I mean the thing is is that you might be
very surprised, like we mightlegitimately just get a pretty
decent pope next, and life goeson.
I mean that's the thingwith—that's the thing.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
Like, we do feel like there is supposed to be some
crescendo, but my point is thaton God's timeline, not our
timeline, things can be very,very different.
You, I think that that's.

Speaker 4 (34:49):
I think that is a like hopeful optimism, but I
don't think it's a reality inany way.
Because things are, of course,a reality, because because my
point is it's like if god is theone who's ultimately like going
to will whatever is going totake place into effect, then
it's going to be an option, likethrough man's eyes, like we can
see everything as hopeless it'sjust not how God operates
through.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
Typically, though, is all I'm saying Like God, I mean
a lot of operated that way forthe last 2000 years.
What I'm saying is, whenthey're this bad, he likes the
dramatic Miracle situation.
I just it's not good.
Look the things are.
You look at the current crop ofhierarchy and how rotten they
all are.

(35:23):
It's going to take more thanjust a good pope getting in
there.
It's going to take generationsof clergy learning to actually
live the catholic faith out likethey did before.
This.
Lax morals and lax practicesall got like.
It's just so lax you would needI'm not saying it's impossible,
but I just think we needsomething a little more than

(35:44):
just a you know a good Pope.

Speaker 4 (35:47):
Yeah, yeah, and I see the argument.
I don't think it's a badargument.
I just think that in a way,like if you go back and read
church history, like it's more,I would say, easy to see laxity
here, there and everywhere inchurch history, cause it's like
when St Pius V showed aroundaround, it was pretty lax, like

(36:11):
when saint alfonso showed up tohis diocese.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
It was really, really lax, um.
So the church is really filledwith it.

Speaker 4 (36:15):
Hey, thanks, laura um , they thought it was lax.
That's my no, it was because,like back, compared to what it
is now well, not, not in onesense.
So the we see everything, theworld's ending.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
I'm saying something you say it all the time I know
the world's ending, but I'm justsaying it's not that I'm saying
now my point is like we see itvisibly because of the internet
here, there and everywhere.

Speaker 4 (36:34):
But I'm saying like, if you go back and read history
about why, like luther'smovement picked up so much steam
, it was because it was verycommon to see concubines with
the priest.

Speaker 3 (36:46):
It was very common to have these guys running around
saying fake pig latin and eveneven during henry v8's reign,
right like all of thosecardinals and stuff, would have
side pieces.

Speaker 4 (36:56):
You know they'd have and like people, people knew it
and they saw it.
And that's my point is it'slike maybe you're right, like,
like you're right because it'slike, and so my point is just,
god might just be like.
The reason I'm not optimisticis like look how many people
were baptized, like so many,hundreds of thousands of people

(37:16):
baptized.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
God is still converting hearts dramatically,
but what I'm saying is even the,even the times you're
describing.
Um, yes, there were priests whomaybe had a concubine and
things like that, and maybe evencardinals and stuff like that,
but the Catholic faith was stillbeing preached and taught and
they weren't trying to justifywhat they were doing.
What we have now is a crop ofmen who are not just on Grindr,

(37:40):
but they're suing Grindr becausethey let their private
information out like there'sabsolutely no repentance for
this.
It's like him angry that he gotcaught.

Speaker 4 (37:50):
He's not repentant because no, no but my point is
it's like is that all of them?
Because the thing is, is that,on the one hand, like we can say
, yeah, there's a lot of badpeople that are inside of those
positions, but also, at the sametime, like there are a lot of
good people who are there, who,yes, I will agree with you, a
thousand percent ill-formed, um,but I think a lot of people

(38:12):
still have a good heart wheneverthey're trying to like push
forward something, and so that'smy point.
It's like I think we might besurprised we very much have a
horrible pope, but I'm alsooptimistic that we're seeing a
lot of catholics like the amountof Catholics I'm seeing online
right now saying, all right,let's pray, let's do penance,
like let's focus in these threeweeks so that we try to really
get a good pope.
I'm like you don't think God'sgoing to honor that.

(38:33):
Like God can move in an amazingway, I'm not saying he won't.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
I just think what we are seeing is part of salvation
history right now.
Like I think what we'rewitnessing is not just like I
just I just think everythingfrom the council to the Pope
putting his tiara down, all ofit like the infiltration of the

(38:58):
older brother into our liturgy,all of it, I just I don't.
I just think we're well beyondthe the oh man, maybe we could.
Just I just don't think that'swhere we're at.

Speaker 4 (39:08):
I mean, you guys can disagree with me.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
You guys could say I'm a doom pill.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
I don't care.
I have hours upon hours of Itold you so video.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
when your predictions go wrong, Okay, I don't think
I'm going to be.
I'll still double down on it.
Hey, not for nothing.
I'd rather you guys not sendsuper chats for Rob's car.
I think we should set somethingup separately for Rob.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I don't need to go fund me forno, I'll be fine.
You'll be fine, yes, I'll befine, you'll be fine.
Yes, I'll be fine, you sure,all right.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
All right, yes, just do the chat away and I'll take
half his money because I'm theboss.
I got to put new windows in thehouse.

Speaker 4 (39:41):
So I guess here's my point.
Like I don't you guys are verygenerous.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (39:48):
Nick, I don't mean to cut you off, you guys are very
generous.
It a like yeah, you're right,like we see all these crazy
things taking place, but I likeit really could legitimately be
so, like all these things couldhave happened and the crescendo
moment is all these young peoplecoming into the church you know
what I'm saying like that couldbe the highlight of the story

(40:10):
because, think about it, justlet me give you one young little
whippersnapper.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
Hope.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
You're like you look at Obama.

Speaker 4 (40:15):
Oh, if you were if you were a Jew in the year circa
33, a D hold on.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Everyone put that for a future political campaign,
three 80, three 80 norm.

Speaker 4 (40:28):
You're, you're, your age, et cetera.
You are looking for a Messiahto come and destroy all the
enemies of God.
I either, romans, and yet whatwas the whole mission of christ?
It was personal sin, it wasactual sin.
That was the problem, wasn'tthe romans, it was the actual
sin, and that's my point it's aterrible analogy, by the way.

Speaker 3 (40:45):
I'm gonna I'm gonna chew you alive with it, but go
ahead no, go, go for it.

Speaker 4 (40:49):
But here's my point is that the point that christ
came wasn't to rewrite apolitical ship per se.
It was to get men to becomeholy.
And my point is is that maybewhat we've seen, or what we will
see, is that a lot of thesepeople are coming into the
church.
Things will end up becomingholy in order, and then we might
just have a semi-normal pope,like it may not be that off the

(41:11):
wall or that insane let me tellyou what's a semi-normal pope,
though I gotta destroy hisanalogy, right?

Speaker 3 (41:21):
yeah, go for it I guess I'll show your analogy for
a second here, because you'relike, imagine you're a jew in 33
ad and you want this.
Okay, great, but you're missingthe point that the messiah did
come and god had to come and fixthe situation because it was so
bad.
And that's what I'm telling youneeds to happen.
I'm not saying God needs tocome in the flesh.
But there needs to be a, thereneeds to dude it is.

(41:46):
I don't, I don't.
It's not me doom-pilling, it'slook at the situation, man Like
things are horrific on the wholelevel of society.
Everything, Something needs tohappen.
I appreciate the optimism, andI could be wrong.
I'm just shooting the crap withmy three friends, but I see

(42:07):
everything that has happenedover the course of the past 75
years and I see that as thecrescendo building up to this
big moment that God is going tointervene.
That's how I see it.
I could be wrong, obviously,and you could be right.

Speaker 4 (42:21):
Yeah, and I'm not against any of that and it's a
totally valid position.
My point is just I want peopleto hope and not blackpill.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
But it's not a blackpill.

Speaker 4 (42:32):
I don't see why you guys think that's a blackpill
For you.
It's not a black pill.
I don't see why you guys thinkthat's a black pill.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
It's not a black pill .
It's not a black pill if Godintervenes.

Speaker 4 (42:37):
I'm not talking about the rapture, no no, I
understand that I'm saying foryou it's not, but I'm saying the
amount of people.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
Why do we have to make everything about color?
Can't we just not see color,guys?

Speaker 4 (42:49):
So true, all right, or is the?

Speaker 2 (42:51):
black pill going to stab me and attract me.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
I just love that.
Nick's a hope and change Obamakid.
That's what I think of in thisconversation.

Speaker 4 (42:59):
Yeah.
I don't see why people like,yeah, I mean, it's not that big
of a deal, it's just like.
I guess this is my point.
I think we're in agreement.
I believe that God can.
We both believe that God can dogreat things.
He can write straight withcrooked lines.
But the way I just choose tolook at it is I prefer to go
into a situation expecting thatGod is good and will give

(43:23):
something good for the peoplewho are coming in and for the
people who have striven andfought for it.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
And I understand why some people oh, never mind, I
can't do that.

Speaker 4 (43:33):
You know, don't hold that position.
That's totally cool.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
Well, the thing is, god bringing those people into
the church is a good in itself,and those people that God's
preparing their hearts like Imean, we all pray for martyrdom
Right.
Like, like, really like thesuffering, doesn't?
The things that we've evensuffered through thus up to this

(43:58):
point have really not been much, unless you're living in
Nigeria, where those poor peopleare actually being persecuted.
What we've experienced in theWestern world is really just
people making a mockery of JesusChrist in front of us.
What do you throw me on?

(44:20):
I never know what he's laughingat.
Oh, my god, you just stopped medead on my track.
Um, the, the, um, oh, I okayyeah, you can't put that up.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Yeah, I know it's hilarious.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
Good one, tommy oh, you can't put that one on now.
I know why you just stopped.
You stopped me with tracks,okay, so, man, I just lost my
whole train of thought.
Yeah, the things that we'vedealt with in the West have more
just been probably most of ourpride in being Catholic.
Right, and you see peoplemaking light of our faith,
people mocking Jesus Christ,people, especially Protestants.

(44:54):
See somebody like a liberalpope come in and you're just
like man, I want to defend thisstuff, but like we look silly
trying to defend a faith thatthe hierarchy isn't even
presenting anymore.
But the point is that wehaven't really endured any real
suffering in the West.

Speaker 4 (45:09):
It's just been a purification of the sheepfold.
It's the the.
The naysayers have left longago, and those who are truly
like saying like let's sit down,actually ask myself the
question why am I catholic?

Speaker 3 (45:21):
they're the ones that , by god's grace, are still here
well, I really do think whatthat radio address that pope
benedict gave remember when weread through his radio address
like I I think the reaganburgaddress?
no, that was a good one too,though I'm talking about the
radio address from the 60s wherehe talks about the church.
We should do the Regensburgaddress one day, though we

(45:43):
should go through that one day,but no, I'm talking about where
he talks about, look, the churchis going to lose her social
privilege.
Like that's the trajectory Isee the church in right now.
Right, so I do think there's agood chance we might get a good
Pope next, but that that is notgoing to be good for the church
in the West in the way mostpeople would think.

(46:06):
It is good for the faithfulCatholics because we'll at least
have a father again, but it'sgoing to mean torment on the
church from the world Right,exactly Cause the only way
logically that Benedict's if youwant to call it a prophecy
would come true.

Speaker 4 (46:21):
Thank you, house.
Thank you very much.
But like the only way for thatto logically come forward would
be is if we do have a good andHoly Pope, to where all of the
social privileges in the liberalcountries of the West, like the
classical liberal countries, goaway.
So you lose all of the socialprivileges in the liberal
countries of the West, like theclassical liberal countries, go
away.
So you lose all of the churchbuildings, you lose all of the
or you're hyper-regulated, youcan't do anything outside of a

(46:42):
church building.
You can't do any type of publicwitness or processions, or
ministries or shows or whatever.
That's the only way for it tomake any type of sense.
That's why I'm saying it mightsurprise us.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
Well, yeah, maybe we aren't even disagreeing, though
I like, yeah, we might not bedisagreeing.
My, my point is that, um, I, Idon't think getting a good pope
means everything's fixed.
I think getting a good popecould have the opposite.
Yeah, yeah, I agree, like, yeah, like it's gonna.
It's going to mean persecution,like I.
I've said this, everything'sfixed.
I think getting a good Popecould have the opposite.
Yeah, yeah, I agree, like, likeit's going to.
It's going to mean persecution,like I.

(47:19):
I've said this before, but thereason the world has been so
gentle on us is because you haveFrancis in there.
So they see the church movingin a trajectory more towards
their opinion.
Right, so it's like Francis isblessing gay, gay unions,
whether he is or isn't.
Like that's what they see.
They see Francis is open to youknow, talking about climate

(47:42):
change, and we got to do so.
They see the church moving in avery specific direction.
If the church does a U-turn,you're going to see major tumult
in the church, like it's goingto be schism and it's going to.
It's going to be chaos andmayhem, and that's what I mean
by it would take like a dramaticact of God to show the world

(48:03):
that the church is the church.
Like.
I don't know how that plays out.
None of us do.
We're just kind of, you know,prognosticating on things that
we don't really know.
But I don't see it.
As you know, a pious the 10thcomes in, gets rid of all the,
gets rid of all the, all thecardinals who are against this,
and it's like, oh, we fixed thisand we get him, that's it, the
catholic church.
But it's just never going tohappen that way.

Speaker 4 (48:25):
no, yeah, I mean that's what I'm saying like, for
instance, if you were to get apizza balla in there, you would
have some situation where itwould be.
You clearly have some, you'dhave some reform, so he'd
probably toss TC because that'sjust universally not liked.
You'd see some stuff when itcomes to some doctrinal
ambiguities being picked up, butyou may not see the full-on.
Hey, I'm going to take theSwiss Guard and we're going to

(48:46):
go room by room inside of everysingle office in Rome and haul
out all the people, et cetera,et cetera.
You're not going to see that,but yeah, it's beautiful I don't
know how I feel about thewarning.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
Like I, I do think it's possible because I've had a
.
I've had, um, an illuminationof conscience myself.
But the way they describe itlike and, and you don't know if
that's actually what, what wastold to the children, or if it's
kind of like the game oftelephone, where the message
that gets distilled to us threegenerations later is oh the

(49:22):
whole world is just going to bestopped and pilots will be
flying in the sky and time willstop and every person on Earth
will have an illumination ofconscience at the same time.
God's never done anything likethat in all of history, but it's
possible?

Speaker 4 (49:37):
Is Geronimo?
Geronimo, it's not approved.
It's not approved, that was myquestion.
Yeah, but it's not.
I don't know if it's.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
I don't know if it's.

Speaker 4 (49:44):
I don't know if they've condemned it either.

Speaker 3 (49:47):
Okay, I don't think they made a pronouncement.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
I think the local bishops have.

Speaker 4 (49:51):
The local bishops have condemned it.
The local bishops havecondemned it.
So this is where I'll put myscholastic hat on, because it's
the one thing I'm useful forno-transcript context of some

(50:21):
type of faith claim.
So you have to be reallycareful about this.
This is why I honestly I Ipretty much avoid most private
revelations um I just think it'sfunny that adrian is a
charismatic.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
Okay, so he never parted the Red Sea until he did,
that's correct.
But God does do things in liketypological fashion, right?
So no, he didn't part the RedSea, but he flooded the Earth.
So, like the flooding of theEarth was the first baptism, the

(51:00):
Red Sea was another form ofbaptism, and the all of those
prefigure actual baptism.
And I mean you could go to thescriptures and they actually say
that peter says that right.
So I I don't.
I don't see any kind ofprefigurement of a worldwide
illumination of conscience likethat.
I just have never seen anythinglike that.
But like you, said could happen.

Speaker 4 (51:17):
That would be really weird on this.
So when they say the worldwideillumination, do they mean that
like?
What do they mean by that?

Speaker 3 (51:23):
every individual on earth will have, like time is
going to essentially stop andeverybody will see themselves
the way god sees them.
Some people will die of a heartattack because they'll be in
shock at what their soul lookslike.
Some people will, um be in joy,pure joy, because they're in a
state of grace and whatever, butlike it'll be one final chance

(51:44):
for people to repent.

Speaker 4 (51:46):
That doesn't, that doesn't seem to compute with the
uh, majority opinion of thesaints, because it's like if the
majority opinion of the saintsis most souls don't go to heaven
, then logic would, woulddictate if you saw God, like if
you saw yourself you still havefree will, though.
You still have free will, butsee, here's the thing it's like
if you had total illumination ofconscience and everybody around
you also did.

Speaker 3 (52:06):
That's how I yeah.
It kind of takes away your freewill.
Now, nick, okay, gariband outlike supernatural finish.

Speaker 4 (52:17):
Oh, like supernatural finish.
Oh, I'm sorry.
Oh no, that was pretty much it.
It was just like I just don'tsee how, like people all want to
do mass conversions at thatpoint.

Speaker 3 (52:22):
So garibaldal could like supernatural events could
have happened there.
But that doesn't mean like thethat's what I'm trying to say
like the message that getsdistilled to the masses after
that could be very differentfrom what our lady actually said
, because there is some veryinteresting things that happen
in Garabedal.
There's video of it too, thegirls walking backwards up steps
.
It's pretty interesting.

(52:44):
Walking backwards up steps isLike without I don't know, I can
do that barely the girlreceiving from an angel.
But that doesn't make senseeither, right?
Shouldn't it be a priest that Idon't know?

Speaker 2 (52:58):
I know people are very.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
I know people get very upset if you're not
involved with their apparition.

Speaker 4 (53:07):
So I don't know, kind of weird, let's just piss
everyone off today.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
Garabandal, not true.
Medjugorje, not true.
Ha, now everyone's pissed.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
Pope Francis, what's your verdict?
Yeah, I don't know.
I would never go as far as tosay that.
I don't think I would go as faras to say something like that.
I just don't like.
I think a lot of these thingswhen they make predictions and
they don't come true though,like because there were supposed
to be some predictions thatwere made at garibandal, it
didn't happen.
Same thing with medjugorje.
Like there were supposed to besome predictions that were made
at garabandal, it didn't happen.
Same thing with medjugorje.
Like there's supposed to bethese signs at the top of the

(53:40):
mountain, but like if thesethings never come to pass, it's
like kind of invalidates thingsand but I don't, I don't know, I
don't.
I never like studied garabandalenough can I?
you know is what I do know isthat the church did give Fatima
a thumbs up.

Speaker 4 (53:59):
They should give that to Fatima.
What I was going to say, I canaddress that actually at the end
of this statement.
So what the church does is itsays this If it even approves an
apparition, you're not requiredto have a devotion to that
apparition.
You are supposed to give assscent of intellect and will to
it because it's the church who'sapproved it.

(54:19):
However, if the church hasn'tapproved it and you've had local
bishops disapprove it, then youwould be committing potentially
a sin against the FirstCommandment if, of course, you
were knowingly and willinglyengaging in that.
But when it comes to thequestion, are the saints or not
infallible, I never claim thatthe saints like just because a
saint said it's infallible.
What I'm saying is that amajority opinion of the
scholastics has said equivocallythat most people don't go to

(54:44):
heaven, and while that's notinfallible or of the faith,
because it's not an absoluteunanimity it's something that
you would at least give a piousdeference to, because they are
doctors of the church, and weshould have that deference
toward the doctors of the churchand toward those who have been
canonized, because, especiallyin the old canonization process,
that means that their theologyis sound and safe, and so that's

(55:05):
what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (55:05):
If the majority are saying this, and our lord seems
to indicate this in the newtestament you know, we have to
take that in consideration yeah,I I think, uh, especially when
you get consensus of the fathers, but yeah, like, if I mean,
typically you'll, you'll havethe saints kind of an agreement
about things and that's how youkind of come to a consensus on

(55:28):
things.
But I don't know, look, I'm not.
This wasn't supposed to be a anapparition show like this.
This was.
This was supposed to just be areflection on the last 12 years.
Right, the last 12 years I'veseen tons of conversions,
including Nick.
I myself I have a realrollercoaster ride through this

(55:50):
pontificate because I had theCatholic faith when Francis
became Pope and I was drivenaway by some of the nonsense and
I stopped attending thesacraments.
I never wasn't Catholic, but Istopped going to mass because I
had just like gone through aphase of just.
I just can't take it anymore,so I left the sacraments.

(56:11):
Now, in that period, when I leftthe sacraments, my whole life
fell apart, like it was on theverge of divorce that's how bad
it got, and not really.
But like my me and my wife areat a very difficult part.
Uh, you know, partnerrelationship, so.
But then I come back under himbecause I find tradition.

(56:32):
Like if it wasn't for findingthe traditional mass, I don't
know how I would have coped overthe past 12 years and I don't
think I would have foundtradition without Francis, like
I really cause SamorinPontificum was out long before
Francis and I never had attendeda Latin mass.
It just it was because ofFrancis that I found tradition.
So there are things thathappened under this papacy that

(56:55):
like they were good, like likeyou talk about God writing
straight with crooked lines andGod bringing good from evil.
So all the evils that we thinkcame under this past 12 years
can work for good.
Yeah, and just and like this.

Speaker 4 (57:13):
this is like unpopular, but like again, as
much of a critic as I am, thereare many things that Pope
Francis did do good that we justit was not reported.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
Yeah, like that's, that's like that's why I said we
can't make a member onedimensional.

Speaker 4 (57:28):
I'm not saying that, I'm not justifying literally
anything.
He said I've spent, I've spent.
I can get plenty of examples,but I'm just saying that like we
always have to recognize thatit's like every single person at
least does do some good.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
Yes, and like when Francis would say things like
going to getting an abortion islike hiring a hitman.
Yes, he said some very goodthings right.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
But when somebody.
But then he does somethingagainst the doctor, dr Joyner.

Speaker 3 (57:53):
But when, when somebody's shifting things, so
like him throwing the occasionalbone, it's it's like well, I
don't know man, I'm worriedabout where, where the papacy
stands in a lot of our minds.
Like I've seen I'll even saythis Like I saw how Eric Sammons

(58:16):
runs crisis magazine and he wasa papal critic for a while and
then he decided he was no longergoing to do that, so he made an
announcement and eric stoppeddoing that.
Right, and then the day francisdies, eric comes back out and
he's swinging at Francis again.
And then I watched Eric's showtoday and he's he was like

(58:39):
saying how one of the goodthings that came from Francis is
Catholics kind of put thepapacy back in its proper order,
because after Vatican one therewas a spirit of Vatican one
where hyper-papalism came alittle too crazy.
But I don't know, man, I thinkif you have a good Pope, like,
there's nothing wrong withhyper-papalism, it's it's when
you're, when you're dealing withleftist revolutionaries, it's

(59:01):
like I don't, I don't know, thisis crazy yeah, I mean, there's
a zillion and one theories.

Speaker 4 (59:06):
That's why, like, what I'm afraid of is, let's say
, we were to, just for sake ofanalogy, get cardinal sarah in
there.
Right, get cardinal sarah inthere, and it's just amazing and
all that.
I'm afraid that because of, like, the, the damage that again,
like rightly we can say popefrancis did to the image of the
papacy amongst the faithful,that there are going to always

(59:27):
be catholics who just have noreverence of even just speech
for the office, like that's whatI'm trying to do tonight, like,
I'm not trying to, I'm nottrying to explain away what he's
done, I'm not trying to be,yeah, I don't want to lose
reverence for the office exactlybecause it's like, like,
because here's the thing is,it's like I could damn myself to
hell by like dragging in themud the institution which christ

(59:48):
, like set up to save me.
On the other end of it, I don'tdo a service to people by trying
to explain bad things away, andso it's like I have to be like,
you know, this is a situationwhere, whomever is next, you
know, you could be right,anthony.
It's like it could be a reallybad situation.
We pray not, but like,hopefully, people put their like

(01:00:11):
hopefully, the big thing thatwe should all got out of this
and you got out of of thisbecause you went through this
was we have to prioritize ourspiritual life, because you left
and then it was the witness ofyour son that brought you back,
and the witness of the TLMchanged your life.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
Yeah, and it also showed me how stable my life is
with the sacraments, like it.
Like the instability of livinga non-liturgical life is what
kind of threw me into chaos, andthen, coming back to the
sacraments, brought thisstability to my life.
Look all the things I'm saying,even about the past 12 years

(01:00:52):
and about Francis.
I went to Italy in December andand sat for a papal audience.
There was still something likewow, people already like that's
the, that's the roman pontiff,you know what I mean?
There was still something aboutthat.
That was just, it was justpretty amazing just to be there,
right.

Speaker 4 (01:01:12):
So, yeah, I don't want to lose reverence for the
office, um because I like I wantto eventually get back to the
point where and it's like,obviously you know pope francis
wouldn't have wanted this, butit's like, yeah, I want to get
back to the point where it'slike you know the, the people
come into the room and he'sbeing carried around on a litter
, obviously like with the, withthe miter on you know the papal

(01:01:33):
crown, and then you know the,the bishops, they come and kiss
the slippers, like that mightseem over the top, but it's like
if he is the, like thesuccessor of St Peter, the vicar
of Christ on earth, and he ownsthat and and and has that
responsibility both interiorlyand exteriorly, then it's like
all of us will be lining uphopefully to do that.
But then you'll of course havethe people, because you know

(01:01:55):
they've been so scandalized thatyou know are just going to sit
back and commit sins against theeighth commandment yeah, I
don't.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
I think okay, so the reason I like pizza ball uh is
the name, which is kind of coolyeah, but it is because I don't
think we get anywhere with anyPope that is unwilling to
discuss the events of world wartwo.
Yeah, oh, by the way, I don'tsee it happening.

Speaker 4 (01:02:23):
Yeah, yeah, no, and it's like what, like you got,
you guys did a phenomenal showwith Christian.
I think I totally just forgot,but I was going to message you
both and like your guys's showwith Christian, I think, was one
of the best shows you guys haveever done.
It was really really well.
And it's one of thoseconversations where I was
curious.
After the show I went andlooked up.
The question was something likewhat is um by age, demographic

(01:02:46):
and party affiliation, thesupport for the state of israel?
And I found this.
I think it was a p, a pewresearch poll, it was a gallup
poll and it was even amongstpeople on the right wing, right
Between 18 and 49, over 50% isagainst the state of Israel.
Right All the left wings were,you know, like way out, like 80,
90%.

(01:03:06):
The only demographic in theUnited States that is still
pro-Israel right is if you'reconservative and over the age of
60.
That's the only group left.

Speaker 3 (01:03:17):
Yeah, but it's not just about support for Israel,
though.

Speaker 4 (01:03:20):
It's so I agree that it is.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
This is.
This is a fundamental problemthat it has.
It has been destructive in ourliturgy.
It has been destructive in theway we approach ecumenism.
All of this comes down to that,like all the things that we've
been complaining about, comedown to that issue.
Like they just do and I don'tsee anybody in, even the guys

(01:03:45):
that we like I don't see any ofthem talking about this issue.
I just don't, and I don't thinkyou can, I don't think you can
fix what's wrong unless youaddress that issue, because and
it has to be done with charity,it has to be done with love.
Yeah, I don't know how thathappens, because I just see all

(01:04:06):
men who are afraid to even havethe conversation.

Speaker 4 (01:04:09):
It's a ball.
I might have it, though, but healso seen.

Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
He's been on the ground there and he's seen it
Exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:04:14):
But to Rob's point in the beginning, if he was, he
might have a short pontificate,because he's openly said that
the state shouldn't exist.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
Where's the Palestinian flag around his neck
?

Speaker 4 (01:04:26):
Yeah, exactly.
So I'm like he.
He would be the closest, but hemight not live that long.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
Yeah, but like even the fact that we would say
something like that's like Idon't know man, I don't know how
this um look, this is, this is.
I know you guys think I'mblackpilling, but this whole,
all of this is all connected tome like it's just.
I see all these things kind ofjust coming together and I, I
think that it's.

Speaker 4 (01:04:51):
I don't, I don't see any way around it the
abomination of desolation willbe as you'll walk into the
Vatican and no longer will bethe Eucharist.
It'll be a bunch of gefaltefish on the altar.
What the heck is going on?

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
Now do you want to go through some of the cardinals?

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
No no.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
Hey, you know what I saw that was interesting Pope
Francis' last will and testamentTalking about where he wants
his body to be entombed andstuff.
So he writes in the name of themost holy Trinity amen.
As I sense the approachingtwilight of my earthly life, and
with firm hope and eternal life, I wish to set out my final
wishes solely regarding theplace of my burial.

(01:05:32):
Regarding the place of myburial Throughout my life and
during my ministry as a priestand bishop, I have always
entrusted myself to the motherof our Lord, the Blessed Virgin
Mary.
For this reason, I ask that mymortal remains rest, awaiting
the day of the resurrection, inthe papal basilica of St Mary
Major.
He kind of goes through allright, so I wish my final
earthly journey to end preciselyin this ancient Marian

(01:05:54):
sanctuary, where I would alwaysstop to pray at the beginning
and end of every apostolicjourney, confidently entrusting
my intentions to the ImmaculateMother and giving thanks for her
gentle and maternal care.
Like I feel, like this wholepapacy, the one thing that was
majorly missing was thisdevotion to Our Lady, like I

(01:06:14):
remember John Paul II had thislike really deep devotion to Our
Lady.
I remember John Paul II hadthis really deep devotion to Our
Lady Benedict too, but underFrancis it was just always about
reaching out to other thingsand I feel like if he would have
focused more on that.
Maybe it's because we're stuckin our echo chamber where we
only hear the controversialstuff and I wasn't following

(01:06:35):
what he was saying every singleday and stuff.
Maybe that's what it is, butthe stuff that hits the, the,
the mainstream, is the stuffthat actually matters, because
that's what the world isabsorbing, in my opinion yeah,
no, I see what you're saying.

Speaker 4 (01:06:49):
Well, that that's partially why, like I, I make
some of our audience mad,because it's like I'm trying to
think outside the bubblesometimes, because I I want to
like pursue truth.
I do.
I don't remember any.
He might have an encyclical on.
I don't remember anyencyclicals, but I do remember a
few times hearing some sermonsof his where he talked just some
of those beautiful words aboutour lady.
I do remember some of those.

(01:07:09):
Um, I do remember, uh, some ofthe, the processions that he had
, but again, I wasn't Catholicunder Benedict.
I wasn't really around for mostof JP too, obviously.
So it's not a ton to compare itto, I guess, for me oh man, you
guys in the audience, haveanything you guys want us to

(01:07:32):
address?
I had one question that wasdirected for me and I can just
answer it like in 10 seconds.
It was just a person who askedme uh, nick, what is your
thoughts about ud university ofdallas I'm going to be going to
visit soon.
It's pretty cool school.
There's a lot of cool dominicanteachers, a lot of cool
professors there.
You're wanting to learntomistic theology?
Um, fairly good.
I would just say one note,which would be if you do go up

(01:07:55):
there and study theology, alwaysconsult the commentators of St
Thomas' Summa and don't fallinto the era of being a Tomesian
where you just have the Summain yourself and think you know
everything.

Speaker 3 (01:08:07):
Oh, there was one other thing at the Easter Vigil
man.
Why didn't I freaking save it,oh man?
So when you go to the EasterVigil man, why didn't I freaking
save it, oh man?
So when you go to the EasterVigil, they take you through the
high points of salvationhistory.
So you start in Genesis andthen you go into the Exodus and
there's a point where Moses ison his deathbed and Joshua is

(01:08:32):
about to take the Israelitesinto the problem.
They're not even Israelites yetyet, right?

Speaker 4 (01:08:38):
you could call the children of israel, because
israel's jacob.

Speaker 3 (01:08:41):
So yeah, okay, so they're there, joshua's gonna
take them in and moses is givinghis last will and testament and
he's just so freakingfrustrated with them.
He's like you people, I knowyour heart of heart.
If you're doing this while I'mstill here, how much more?
when I'm gone, write this down,because I know you stubborn

(01:09:01):
bastards are not gonna do it,and it's like yeah man, I was
just like as as they werereading through these readings,
I was just looking up at thecross and I'm just like.
They are such a stubborn people, lord you really.
Your people are really stubbornand they always were stubborn,
and it is just.
There's something about whensomebody is hardened of heart

(01:09:26):
and their inability to see theirown sin right.
So when you're going, when youhave John the Baptist is
baptizing and everyone's comingto get baptized this is the
reason why you can't see thekingdom unless you're born of
water and spirit, because thepeople that come to get baptized
are repenting of their sins.

(01:09:47):
So there's something in themthat they have a softness in
their heart.
They're repenting of their sins, but those who didn't get
baptized are like what's goingon here and they have a hardness
of heart and they can'tactually see the kingdom because
they won't acknowledge thatthey are not there, that they're
sinful, right, they thinkthey're righteous, and it's just

(01:10:08):
something that persists untilthis day.
And you see it in all theconversations that are going on
about this question of Israeland it's like there's not an
ounce of self-reflection of whatis actually happening over in
the Middle East, over there.
There's not an ounce ofself-reflection where it's like

(01:10:29):
all right, people are not likingwhat we're doing.
Maybe we should change up alittle bit.
None of that.
It's just double down, doubledown on the propaganda.
All of it is because there'sthis hardness of heart that
comes over people when they'reunwilling to see that they might
be guilty of something.
It's not just Jews, it's allpeople.

(01:10:49):
When people are stubborn andthey have I've been having these
arguments with one of mysiblings because they they've.
They've left the sacraments andthey read the Bible Like
they're basically Protestant atthis point, you know, like they
still think they're Catholic butthey're essentially Protestant.
And it's like anytime I try tosay anything to this person,

(01:11:12):
they just shut down and theywon't even hear it because they
don't like what they're hearing,because it's a bit convicting
in in the way they're livingtheir life.

Speaker 4 (01:11:20):
Yeah, no, I agree, it's.
Um, you can rightly affirm bothtruths.
Like I, I got in trouble thisweek because I was in.
I was in this chat and I wastalking about how.
You know it's good that we'relike you wouldn't have even had
five years ago Father Maudsleygoing on and talking about
differences between pre-55, goodFriday and 62 and 69, et cetera

(01:11:42):
, and I mentioned, though, atthe end of this conversation.
I said one thing, though Ithink we should be careful about
is we're in Holy Week.
It's good to talk about thisstuff for theology, history, but
we shouldn't become so obsessedwith it where we forget also at
the same time, and it is oursins that we should be
meditating upon this week.
You know, just doing kind of apious reflection and, uh, the

(01:12:05):
guy got like so mad.
But it was a good reminderbecause it's like we um, we live
in a society where, let's justbe honest, our lord talks about
in john 3.
It's like they hate the lightand they don't come to the light
because they see their deedsare evil.
So it's like those people inthe time of christ right, aside
from the elect right, they didnot go to christ, they hated

(01:12:26):
christ because he was callingout their evil deeds, and that
can be the same for us.
Like the saint introducedmissile has this really good
reflection where it says whenyou look at all the people who
killed Christ, we can find allthe major sins.
It's like Judas he was acovetous person.
That's what St Thomas Aquinassays.
Through covetousness, hebetrayed our Lord.
Herod was a lustful fiend,right, and he handed him over to

(01:12:48):
the people.
Pilate was weak and pridefulright.
It's, and prideful right.
It's like all of us can do allof these things.
Um, so you can rightly affirmthere is this historical, not
just in in the first century,but continuing on enmity between
older and younger brother, andat the same time affirm, yeah,
my sins are an issue that putour lord upon the cross and like

(01:13:10):
, lord, help me not to be areprobate.
You, you know where my heartgets hardened.

Speaker 3 (01:13:15):
Yeah, no, it's yeah.
It just is interesting thatthese these conversations are
happening now where, like wenever would have heard them
before.
It's just I don't know ifthey're.
They're going to be front andcenter soon, I think.
So All right.
So we all are going to betalking quite a bit going

(01:13:37):
forward, because we have aconclave coming up like this is
going to be pretty nuts.
So Wednesday I am going on JoeMcLean in the morning, then I
have three shows on this channel.
So keep, keep your eyes open onWednesday.
Wednesday, there will be a lotof streaming going on.

(01:13:58):
I don't think we're going to doa members only show this week.
We're going to see how the newsplays out of something big
happens.
We'll jump on and we're justgoing to play it by ear and I
think that's it.
Rob, you got any final thoughts?
You've been pretty quiet.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
Nope.

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
All good, yeah, all right guys.
So this was an interesting dayand we'll see how things play
out over the course of the nextcouple weeks.
So how long is it before theycall the actual conclave?

Speaker 2 (01:14:37):
It has to be at least nine days, but probably longer.

Speaker 4 (01:14:40):
Nine days of mourning and then they have 15 days to
get there, if memory's right.
I think it's like 15 days toget there and then they vote.
It's going to be three weeks.
When is the funeral?

Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
It has to wait nine days.
Yeah, it's at 20, it's going tobe like three weeks.

Speaker 4 (01:14:57):
When is the funeral has to wait nine days.
Yeah, it's at the end of thenine-day period.

Speaker 3 (01:15:00):
So there's a nine-day morning period?
Yeah, then they have what?
A one-day funeral, three-dayfuneral, like how does that go?

Speaker 4 (01:15:08):
Probably it will be like one official day of funeral
and then there'll probably bebefore it days where the
faithful can come in and paytheir respect before before him.
So but watch, I guarantee youguys, it's probably gonna be a
much better funeral.
Wait a minute.

Speaker 3 (01:15:22):
Exclusive cardinal zen.
Cardinal joseph zen of hong kongis challenging the decision
communicated to the cardinals ina letter earlier today to hold
the first so I didn't see thisto hold the first meeting of the
general congregations of theCollege of Cardinals tomorrow
morning at 9 am in the Vatican.
His short statement just sentto me for immediate release

(01:15:44):
states Cardinal Zen would liketo know why the first session of
the general congregations hasto start so early.
How are the old men from theperiphery supposed to arrive on
time?
There is the kind word in theletter reminding them that they
are not obliged to attend, butdo they have the right to do so,
yes or no?
So basically, they're calling ameeting and not giving time to

(01:16:07):
all the other people to getthere?

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
Well, not really, because nothing can really be
done in the vatican right nowwithout the college of cardinals
.
So this this is more aboutcontinual governance of the
vatican than it is about the,the conclave you don't think
it's about conversations tostart I mean, maybe it very well

(01:16:31):
could be.
I mean, most, most of thesecardinals haven't met the last
time the full uh, last time thefull college met was in 2015 or
something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:16:42):
That is a really weird thing that Francis did.
He stopped allowing the.
They're supposed to know eachother so that they know who the
next cardinal they want to electis, and there's been like this
wall of silence up.
So, todd, you think theseconversations have already
happened.
Do we think the next conclaveis already like?

(01:17:02):
Because is there another,another, yeah is there a sunk on
the mafia?

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
I don't think there was ever, I don't think they
ever stopped?

Speaker 3 (01:17:12):
is the cia doing what they can to manipulate things
right now, like I think?
What I think you'll see thistime that we didn't see in times
past is guys like cardinals andspeaking up yeah, way more
scrutiny scrutiny with thecardinals, scrutiny with the
media, scrutiny with people likeus dude, I don't know, this
could get crazy yeah, we could.

Speaker 4 (01:17:34):
We could honestly get some like pretty laughable
off-the-wall stuff come out.

Speaker 3 (01:17:41):
This could get crazy.
It could end up not.
There could be a very longinterregnum.
They definitely have a groupchat.

Speaker 2 (01:17:48):
Think of all the different group chats out there.

Speaker 4 (01:17:51):
They all speak in Latin because they're just like
the Holy Father won't know.

Speaker 3 (01:17:55):
Maybe they'll add a leftist reporter in on their
telegram chat, like the trumpadministration did.
Oh no, tommy have a littlematerial we don't have to jump
off yet if you guys want us tokeep going.
I don't know.

(01:18:17):
Rob's falling asleep on me.
Nick's afraid to say anything.
Controversial now.
So true, um, let's see I'll.
I'll find some stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:18:31):
I was like I can tell you.
I can tell you some cool.
This is the kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:18:35):
This is the kind of stuff that drives me all right,
go ahead, nick, you can go thenyou go for it.

Speaker 4 (01:18:39):
Go for it.
You're passionate aboutsomething?
Go for it.

Speaker 3 (01:18:40):
So Patrick, Neve or Neve, whatever his name is, Pope
Francis was a holy man.

Speaker 2 (01:18:45):
Oh, I could not stand that tweet.

Speaker 3 (01:18:47):
You can't deny it Some of his decisions were
imprudent.
But holiness is not equal toprudence.

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
And even then, who am I to judge decisions?

Speaker 3 (01:19:01):
god gave me.
Like this is the kind of thesame tweet.
He says you can't judge yoursoul, oh, but he's holy for sure
.
Um, this is what, like, wewould always talk about, where
it's like well, it was justimprudent.
Well, it was just imprudent.
Well, it was just imprudent.
Like at a certain point, yousaying every single thing the
pope does being imprudent, likeyou're kind of calling them
retarded, like that's not welleither Imprudence is sinful,
that's imprudent.
Yeah, my wife just gave me alook.

Speaker 4 (01:19:27):
Imprudence is generally sinful, right, I mean,
imprudence is a virtue.
That line doesn't really workfor me.
But then also it comes back tothat line where it's like fool
me once, shame on you know.
Fool me one, shame on me.
Or fool me once, shame on you,fool me twice, shame on me.
So it's like if you continue tosee a lot of these repeated
actions this is why you saw alot of people like salmons, who
in the beginning were like yeah,I'm gonna try to defend him,

(01:19:49):
you know, give him some time tolike adjust to the office of the
papacy, you know, maybe justdoesn't know how to speak
properly in front of that theworld.
And then nine years later, 10years later, 12 years later,
you're like, okay, well, I don'tknow, guys, just I don't nick,
I'm not even, I'm just I missthe old nick.

Speaker 2 (01:20:11):
I miss the old nick I don't this.

Speaker 3 (01:20:13):
This the old nick.
I miss the old nick.
Got a little fire to him.
No, no, like I am passionateabout it.
But see here's the.
I miss the old.

Speaker 4 (01:20:18):
Nick, I had a little fire to him.
No, no, no, like I ampassionate about it, but see,
here's the thing.
Like the old Nick, the old Nickhad so many sinful problems
with him that none of you needto know.
It's between me, god and theconfessor.
It'll be revealed on the lastday and you'll be able to see
what I'm talking about.
But, um, but like.

Speaker 2 (01:20:36):
I'll be too busy going through Anthony's list on
that, don't worry, but I'm justlike.

Speaker 4 (01:20:45):
Like, as I said before, I have not changed any
of my views, but what I am doingis I'm wanting to listen to our
Lord, because my salvation iswhat I am made for I'm made to
be in union with Christ, and somaybe I don't come on here and
I'm like spitting fire and I'mangry.

Speaker 3 (01:20:57):
I'm just teasing you, by the way.
No, no, no.

Speaker 4 (01:21:00):
You may be teasing, but it's like.
I don't know if other peopleare, but it's like.
You know, I want to be saved.

Speaker 3 (01:21:05):
Like I want to be immune to crime.
A lot of people say you need tobe better.

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
Wait, what are you doing?
Anthony's obsession with theworld ending is like a midlife
crisis, but instead of a, acorvette, he's buying three days
of darkness prep kit that'sfunny.

Speaker 3 (01:21:19):
Let me tell you something.
I bought a whole like.
I did buy like a whole bunch ofbeeswax candles and I had them
blessed by a priest.
My wife just lit them as ifthey were just normal candles
and I I'm like, where are the?

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
last words, nicole.
This is your fault.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
Yeah, no, I'm like where are all the beeswax
candles?
She goes, I don't know, I justlit them.
No, I'm like where are all thebeeswax candles?
She goes, I don't know, I justlit them, I like them.
I'm like, nicole, you can't,you're like they're not even
scented.
Why would you do that?
No, but, rob, if you knew, wewent to like this.
We went to this parish and thepriest was like blessing
everybody's stuff, like he likehad a very specific thing after,
after mass.
It was like I'm gonna blesseverybody's stuff now when you

(01:21:57):
go oh, that's, we have to talkabout this connected too.
So when you go to one of thesethings, what you get is the, the
, the women like push you out ofthe way to get their stuff.
Yeah, and it's literallyeverything they have, every
single thing they have, and theywill push you out of the way
because they want their stuffblessed and they don't give a
crap if anybody else getsanything blessed.

Speaker 2 (01:22:17):
It's also how they operate in the confession line.

Speaker 3 (01:22:20):
This is a problem.

Speaker 4 (01:22:22):
I had a lady come up to me this week and she was a
sweet old lady and she was justlike do you want to be a priest?
I was like I don't want tocounsel old ladies in the
confessional every single dayfor hours, because if it was
just straight up giving moraltheology, okay that's cool, but
that's not what it is.
So I say this in love to allthe ladies out there Be short,

(01:22:42):
quick and specific and then moveon.

Speaker 3 (01:22:46):
My wife constantly insists on eating our emergency
food for fun.
Wives are so funny.
So, listen, we go to the vigilon Saturday and there's.
Oh man, I got to be carefulbecause I don't know who watches
the show, but dude, there'sthere were an hour 23 minutes of
the militant women sit on theends of the of the aisle, which

(01:23:07):
is fine.
I get people want to sit on theends of the aisle.
They don't let you in and theygive you dirty looks if you want
to get and it's like you thinkyou're taking the entire aisle.
Like what I don't understandand like there was.
There was this.
There was a woman who veryeasily, like there's, I had to
sit separate me and my wife andsit separate from my daughters
because this one woman was somad that me and my wife had to

(01:23:32):
get in.

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
But she could have just taken the row in front of
her yeah, those women definitelyturned off the video when, when
you said that's true you.

Speaker 3 (01:23:39):
You'd be surprised, dude, when I leave holy
innocence.
A lot of times it's like old,older women that come up to me.
They're like I watch your show.
One one of them said to my wifeum, she goes, uh, oh, you don't
look anything like I expected.
And my wife was like what, whatI believe in?
Saint lidwin?

Speaker 2 (01:23:55):
lidwina, lidwina.

Speaker 3 (01:23:56):
Let's put it on the screen right super I believe
saint lidwina and the passion ofthe church is an appropriate
metaphor for the juncture thechurch is living through.
I don't know that so saintledwina is the patron saint for

(01:24:18):
those who suffer chronic pain ohgotcha so this family member I
was telling you about earlier,they're going to answer why he
was african, like it.
Well, I said to my wife I go, Igo, I go.
She probably thought, like Ihad, like some you know, guinea
brat as a wife, something like amarissa tobe type.

Speaker 2 (01:24:35):
You know my wife's like, oh so I'm not marissa
tomei there's nothing you, mywife's like, oh so I'm not
Marissa Tomei.

Speaker 3 (01:24:43):
There's nothing you could have said there, that
would have been good.
So, oh wait, what was I justgoing to say?
Oh, with with one of mysiblings, the, we were watching
the Passion together and, likethe, the beginning where the
devil is, like, you know,talking to Christ in the garden,
she's like this isn't in theBible, not like exactly like

(01:25:08):
that.
I'm like these are the visionsof seeing, seeing, seeing a
blessed and Catherine Emmerich,and I'm trying to explain it and
and well, this isn't in theBible.
I'm like, oh, my gosh, allright, it's not in the bible,
all right, like it just gets.
It gets very, very well youshould.

Speaker 2 (01:25:25):
You should have been like uh, do you think jesus was
nailed to the cross?
Yes, well, that's not in thebible, so I guess, well, that's
what I said I I actually did.

Speaker 3 (01:25:32):
We had that conversation where I was like
well, if you actually go throughthe gospels, the like the, the
crucifixion isn't actually verydetailed.
No, not at all.
Like it really just says hewent to the pillar, was scourged
and then he was crucified, likeI mean, obviously more detailed
than that, but it's not likewhat you see in the passion is
blessed and catharine emmick's.

Speaker 2 (01:25:52):
Not something they needed to be uh taught no,
because they all knew whatcrucifixion was.

Speaker 3 (01:26:01):
Yeah, so like you wanted to describe it in as
little detail as possiblebecause it was such a
humiliating thing in itself liketo to even look upon somebody
who was crucified.
You'd be considered defiled,you know so you know it's gonna
be interesting.

Speaker 4 (01:26:16):
I mean this.
I've been thinking about thisrecently.
Um, I haven't seen it forever,but I was.
I was sent this clip by afriend of mine of um the
chosen's like latest season,where christ is cleansing the
temple with like the whip andstuff, and I watched it and I
was like fairly shocked at likeI'd be, especially nowadays.

(01:26:40):
I'm like wow, yeah, this.
This just would go overstraight quote-unquote
anti-semitism by its hyper broaddefinition nowadays, which
which was this.
This was like the, yeah, thechosen, like I mean they have I
was actually pretty surprised.

Speaker 3 (01:26:53):
Chosen nick is a step too far, I'm not not sorry wait
, so you went and saw it in themovie theater no, no, no.

Speaker 4 (01:27:02):
I was sent a clip from this by a friend.
Oh, I was sent a clip onthrough youtube and um and they
just said what's your thoughts?
Because I have.
I haven't seen it since likethree years ago, whatever, and I
was like dang, I'm actuallykind of surprised.
They like went this far with itand I thought, hmm, are they
gonna, are they gonna do the um,let his blood be upon us and

(01:27:22):
upon our children that you thinkthey're gonna?

Speaker 2 (01:27:24):
dare do that.
Well, well, well left.

Speaker 3 (01:27:28):
He left it in verb verbally but took the subtitles
out uh, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:27:33):
Yeah, did I thought I heard that he didn't do that,
that whoever did the subtitlesdid that without his knowledge.

Speaker 3 (01:27:40):
Oh, I didn't know.
I thought from pressure groupsthey took it out.
I could be wrong, obviously.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
And I could be wrong too.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:27:47):
Verbally, it's in there.
Let his blood be upon us andupon our children is in there
verbally, but they took it outin the subtitles.
Now, with the Chosen, we hadplayed clips comparing the
Chosen Jesus of Nazareth and theGospel of John.
Just showing how Jesusinteracts with the Pharisees in

(01:28:09):
the Chosen, and it's one of myleast, it's like one of the
things I hate the most about theshow is how his interactions
with theisees are just appallingyou know I no, I agree this.

Speaker 4 (01:28:19):
Why?
This is why this clip kind ofwas surprising to me, because
like he looks like he's a like.
So there's like the high priest.
He comes out in this scene.
He like comes out of the temple.
Christ is like pissed, he'slike furious.
You see the whip in his hand.
He looks like he's straight up.
He like he like whips at one ofthe pharisees, like just
straight up whips at one of thephar, just straight up whips at
one of the Pharisees, at thehigh priest.

(01:28:40):
They make the guy run back inbecause it looks like Christ is
about to start attacking thehigh priest.
I was like dang, they're kindof.

Speaker 1 (01:28:47):
They're going off here.

Speaker 2 (01:28:49):
So I just lost my train of thought, I did show
Maddie Well, so Maddie made ithalfway through the passion.

Speaker 3 (01:28:59):
Oh, that's okay.
So here's the thing.
That's what we forgot to talkabout when we had this
conversation.
Bachelor, um, how did he do?
We're going through half of it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:06):
It was a little too much room so we, we made it
through the um the scourging ofthe pillar actually we made it
through the crowning with thorns, which was right after that, of
course.
Um, and he, he's like, he'slike at that point, he's like
it's.
He just said I need a break,basically, yeah, but I knew I
had made the right decision whenso, right before the scourging,

(01:29:27):
he wanted to be warned whenthings were going to get bad,
right.
So we paused it before thescourging and told him it was,
it was about to get prettyviolent, um kind of described
him what was about to happen andyou, um kind of described to
him what was about to happen.
And you know, I told him, likeyou know, I told him, when I see
this, when I watch this scene,or when I meditate on the
scourging, you know I I meditatehow each, each one of like the,

(01:29:51):
the strikes, is like my sindoing that to Jesus.
And he started crying at thatpoint, like even before seeing
the scourging, and it's likethis was a good decision, you
know, because watching that,then he you could tell like it
really hit home with him, youknow what to him being naughty

(01:30:13):
or committing a sin, what thatreally is.

Speaker 3 (01:30:17):
So my older daughter still can't watch it.
My younger daughter can.
My older daughter still cannotwatch it.
She's just like daddy, pleasedon't make me watch it Like she
just has.
No, she's just not capable ofwatching that level of violence.
Like she just like she doesn't.
If somebody has a bloody nose,she freaks out Like she just is
incapable, for example.

(01:30:43):
Like she just is incapable.
She's so sensitive.
Now, now, what?
What I was, what I did kind ofwant to talk about is, um,
because I saw, uh, I forgot whoposted it, but they were talking
about how, even when they watchlike regular movies, like when
you watched, um, what was theshow?
Uh, about the mormons rob, uh,american primeval, american,
primeval, right like when you'rewatching a massacre like that

(01:31:03):
as a spectator, it's, itdesensitizes you somehow, like
it's like because you you madethe point you're like well, most
of human history people wereexposed to violence like this,
you know, and it's like.
But I think it's different when, when you're seeing it in real
life and then when you're seeingit on a screen as a spectator,
like it kind of desensitizes youand I don't know it.

(01:31:25):
I mean, I still personally lovewatching the passion, because I
always find something new in it, like this time watching it or
this time around watching it itwas peter's denial and like I
really just put myself inpeter's shoes because there's
man.
I remember like early on in myconversion going out after a

(01:31:47):
christmas party with a bunch ofguys and they were making fun of
me for going to church and Iwas like no no it's not that big
, like I don't really go likeand I denied my faith when I was
younger I was in like my 20sand I just freaking remember,
like how easily you cave to thepressure and memetic desire

(01:32:08):
around you.
So like that was what hit methis time.
But the, the, the raw violenceof that movie, I think some
people are just too sensitive tohandle it yeah, I think so too
it's.

Speaker 4 (01:32:22):
it's it's the greatest movie about the life of
christ.
Of course by part, because andyou know, the thing is is it's
like we don't even understand,like the passion is a small, it
is a very slight reflection ofwhat was going on because, like
St Thomas talks about theinternal passion that Christ had

(01:32:43):
was so much greater than thephysical wounds, and it's like
we can't see that obviously in amovie screen.
I remember the last time Iwatched the passion.
It was beautiful.
There was uh, people know alittle bit of my story, but
there's four of us who are allconverting to the church
together, four of us guys, andwe watched the Passion the night
before our first confessionsand we intentionally did this

(01:33:07):
with examinations of consciencebecause we wanted to see like,
okay, like we all, all our liveswere just like, yeah, you know
you pray this prayer and you'regood to go.
You know, like you're, you neverthink about Christ's death,
aside from just kind of likewhen it's mentioned on Easter.
But then when you're seeingthese questions, it's like have
you thought impurely?

(01:33:27):
Have you used your you know?
Have you lied, have you beenprideful?
You know, you just go throughthose lists and stuff.
And then you're looking at whatyour sin did and if're like us,
where it's like, wow, you know,we're 21, 22, 23 it's like, wow
, there's 20 years of my lifewhere I was just doing this no
remorse, and like, look at whatchrist did regardless, like he

(01:33:50):
did this for me regardless ofwhether or not I repented.
That's the beautiful thing.
Um, so yeah, it is justobjectively the best movie.

Speaker 3 (01:33:58):
Yeah, but I think Molly's right, like you can
watch, you can overwatch it andget desensitized.
So like I do, like that, I onlywatch it that once a year, once
a year, watch it once a yearand it's like a liturgical thing
that we're doing and we reallytry to, you know, go deep into
it.
Now my, now my older daughtershe's tried the last year, she

(01:34:41):
just can't do it.
I think next year after theGood Friday Liturgy we're going
to maybe go try to see a PassionPlay person.
So like I really do think thatwhole conversation is very each
person is different in how theycan handle it.
I think all men should be ableto handle it.
Yeah, I do think you have to bea little bit cautious with some
girls who are a little toosensitive well, I was like
somebody's kid's

Speaker 4 (01:34:54):
autistic or something obviously I like how, rob uh,
you did it with your kid, likehow you just like stopped and
you explained it.
You were very gentle, oh yeah,I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:35:03):
So we only watched half of it, but it took us two
and a half hours to get throughhalf, because how much I was
pausing and like explaining youknow, maddie's just learning how
to read english, so subtitlesare a little hard for him.
Obviously.

Speaker 4 (01:35:16):
Yeah, but uh foreign language well I was gonna say
that's good because I, like thefirst time I watched the passion
I think I was like five and Istumbled into it.
How the context was.
I was in bible, like biblesunday school at my old
evangelical church and they wereplaying some clips from.
They weren't playing the wholething, but just from clips of it
to kind of like show thereality of what christ did, and

(01:35:39):
I remember it scarred me.
I still remember it in my, inmy mind and I was just like what
is this?
It was just so scary, like whatis what is happening to this
guy?
You know, it's like I knew thatchrist died for my sins even at
that age.
But it's like it's differentwhen you're five years old
saying this and saying what,what is going on to this guy.
You know it's not just an imageup on a wall.

Speaker 3 (01:35:59):
Um, yeah, yeah, I think it's like, um, yeah, I
think it should stay as a once ayear thing, though, like I, I
think you can overwatch it andstuff like that.
So, um, all right.
So look, wednesday's gonna bejam-packed, um, I know it's.
It's difficult for some people,but, but let's force ourselves
to pray for Francis.

(01:36:20):
I'm not going to sit here andfeel pietistic and pretend it's
easy.
It's going to be difficult fora lot of us.
If you're being honest, we'vehad a very rough 12 years under
this pontificate.
But try to look at how God hasbrought good through some of the
pain that we've gone through,good through some of the pain
that we've gone through, andremember that none of this pain

(01:36:40):
has been physical chastisementsyet, and I do think that is on
the horizon.
I think we're in store for somestuff.
I know you guys are superoptimistic.
I think we're getting the mostHoly Pope ever next and the
world's going to be rainbows andSour Patch Kids falling from
the sky M&M's, m&m's, m&m's.
I have a safe that kind ofproves.

Speaker 4 (01:37:05):
I don't believe that I'm pretty sure you own more
guns than me now, Rob.

Speaker 3 (01:37:12):
And to all the new Catholics who came into the
church.
I don't know how many areactually watching this show, but
to you Catholics who just camein this Easter, you guys will
never forget this easter man.
You came in, you, you getconfirmed in the church, you
receive communion for that firsttime and the next day the pope
dies.
You're getting a conclave.
Like you're getting all ofcatholicism jammed into your one

(01:37:36):
year of ocia or whatever it islike.
You guys get the full gamut.
Stick around, guys.
It's gonna get fun.
This is what it means to becatholic.
So this is.
This is my, my.
I wonder if we could getsomebody that remembers the
election of john paul ii who,like they, would have to be
young I mean old like they wouldhave had to have been young

(01:37:59):
when that kale, I would think sojohn paul was elected in 79, 78
, 79 somewhere, so he would haveprobably been around 10.
I'm gonna ask him if he, if heremembers it, yeah, he might.
Hey, that's the other thing.
Uh, lofton, uh and ibarra madeamends.

Speaker 2 (01:38:20):
Yeah, if anyone's wondering.
So Eric asked us to take somevideos down, so we did, of
course.

Speaker 3 (01:38:25):
Yeah, I heard they're getting the band back together,
like there's going to be.
It's going to be like Elijah,you know Fawaz's brother.
It's going to be Fawaz, elijah,yazzie, william, albrecht,
lofton and Eric.
I think they're all going toget together, I mean you know.

Speaker 2 (01:38:43):
No offense to Lofton, but I really hope getting the
band back together is justfigurative.

Speaker 3 (01:38:49):
Well, the thing is, you know, I don't think that'll
ever happen with us, but thereis something good about making
peace during Holy Week.

Speaker 2 (01:39:00):
Well, now they won't have to fight about Francis.

Speaker 3 (01:39:02):
Well, there you go.
Maybe it was their prayers, Iknow.

Speaker 2 (01:39:08):
Maybe Anthony is right.

Speaker 3 (01:39:12):
I learned about the passion this Lent.
Christ and the gospel sang tothe garden.
These were required Psalms ofThanksgiving, including 115, a
hymn to the Father and Maryabout taking up the chalice.
I don't know if I knew thatChrist in the gospel sang in the
garden.
These were required Psalms ofThanksgiving.

Speaker 4 (01:39:33):
I don't know that number one, but there is the
passage I think it's in St John,where it talks about, and then
they sung a hymn or a psalm andthe psalm is psalm 117, I think
it is.
Um, and it's really coolbecause the psalm ends with
those passages about how thestone right, which has now
become the head of the corner,will be a stumbling block, and

(01:39:55):
so basically what it is isthey're singing this psalm
saying that the messiah will bea stumbling block to the jews as
they're leaving the last suppergoing into the garden.

Speaker 3 (01:40:04):
it's pretty epic um, yeah, and every.
I have seen the oh so andfather jason chiron had reached
out to me following that episode.
With christian I had a a goodlike half hour conversation with
him and it was a goodconversation.
Like we still clearly are aparton issues, but it was still a

(01:40:25):
very charitable conversation andat the end of it we both agreed
to just ask our lady to healany wounds in the church.
So I think I mean you know the,the Pope, just oh, I was
supposed to go on a Protestantshow on Wednesday.
I'm going to have to reschedulethat because we got too much
going on.
So I'll have to reschedule that.

(01:40:50):
But there is a Protestant showthat reached out to me and they
want to discuss the Jewishquestion.
No-transcript, Rob, take us out, brother, Thank you.

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