Pre-Conclave Politicking and Maneuvering Has Begun

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
SANTE, sante AMARE MORTINE, gradas NOS IN TE
SPELAVERUMT In taste bell oferrant.
You gotta love these broadsyikes women's soccer mowing

(00:54):
grass.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Who?
Who has their wife mow grass?
Do you, does your wife mowgrass?

Speaker 1 (00:59):
exactly listen.
I shaved my beard until we geta Holy Pope Came in nice and
clean shaven.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
I'm always clean shaven outside of penitential
seasons.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Can you even grow a beard?
I'm questioning it.
You look like the kind of guythat gets a patchy beard if you
try to grow it in.
I do, I do have a patchy beard.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
RIP.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, that's a curse some guys deal with.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
I'm a Latin, I don't have to care about that.
I'm not a biz larper.
So true, I'm gonna go shave mybeard right now.
So true, this is, this is why.
This is why you're a rad tradnick.
It's because you haven't shavedyour beard.
You shave your beard, you'regonna start, you know, saying
the litany of the, you know theholy fathers of vatican too, and
all the holy post conciliarpopes.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
So so true, so true, I definitely want to talk to you
guys.
We're going to get into somestuff tonight.
Some of the angles that I'vebeen watching is I'm seeing all
of the articles that are comingout right, and the one that
jumped out to me right off thebat was there was a New York
Times article and the New YorkTimes set it up.

(02:05):
As you know, francis's legacyhangs in the balance and there's
conservative cardinals comingin talking about unity, but this
unity is dangerous and theyhave to watch for it, and I see
that and I think right away thatthe New York Times is is just
deep state propaganda, right.

(02:25):
So this is like I just thinkthis is intelligence agencies
trying to influence the conclave, like if they use the new york
times for that in the secularworld, why would you not assume
they're going to do that in theecclesial world?

Speaker 3 (02:37):
yeah, yeah, I mean it's uh, it's truly, I think, a
historic moment.
Um, it's a historic conclave.
I mean.
I sent you the quote fromCardinal Arborelius.
Cardinal Arborelius is aEuropean cardinal.
He's Papa Bile.
He's been a cardinal for a fewyears.
He's like yeah, I know maybe 20to 30 of the cardinals,

(02:58):
cardinal electors.
I'll have it figured out bynext week.
This is a cardinal elector wholiterally could become Pope and
he just doesn't know anybody.
It's definitely you would besurprised how much the Cardinal
electors are being influenced bythings like what the New York
Times says, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Sometimes the media is the only exposure these guys
have to each other, right?
So what's interesting iseverybody kind of was like why
is why are they pushing theconclave off so far like it was?
You know, you had francis'sfuneral.
You're supposed to wait, Ithink 15 days from his death or
something, or nine days from hisdeath or something like that,
but they pushed it off a littleextra time.

(03:38):
And my initial thought is justwell, yeah, these guys don't
know each other.
Like the way way Francis kind ofoperated was he didn't allow
these guys to come toconsistories so that they would
all get to know each other andmeet each other and hobnob and
things like that.
So you have all these cardinals.
Like the electorate iscompletely changed from the last

(03:58):
conclave.
It's like the last conclave itwas like 58 percent European,
this time it's like 42 percent,and there's all these cardinals
from like far off, like likefrom asia and from south america
and all these things.
And a lot of people think,because francis picked these
guys, that you're just going toget another guy in the mold of

(04:20):
francis.
And I don't think that's thecase.
Like there's, francis doesn'teven know the guys he's picked.
He's counting on his contactsin that country and they're
bringing these guys up.
So it's an interesting thingthat we're seeing, and then
Rarate Chelly put out an articletoday just talking about how

(04:42):
there's one thing that'snoticeable is that the younger
Cardinals that Francis did electare looking to the older guys
and the guys who are kind ofveterans to this, who were
around for Francis' election,are kind of like this older
brother figure that they're alllooking to for stability right
now because, as wild as itsounds, it seems like Francis'

(05:05):
death was unexpected.
Even though we saw he was sickfor a while.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
I saw that as well, some of the Cardinals saying
that this was shocking.
I don't know how it wasshocking you had an 88-year-old
man who just got over bronchitiswith one and a half lungs, and
apparently the Cardinals arejust shocked that he passed away
.
But I think the point youbrought up is important and I
think that this definitely bodeswell.

(05:31):
Although I'm neither a prophetnor the son of a prophet, I
think we need to be clear thatnobody knows who's going to be
what's going through the mind ofthe Cardinals or who's going to
become Pope, but we can say, wecan highlight those external
circumstances of what they seemto indicate.
Is somebody like Erdo, cardinalErdo from Hungary.

(05:51):
He seems to be, from what I'veseen, from what the Cardinals
have expressed, you know, heseems to be somebody who you
know we got to keep an eye outbecause he's been conspicuously
silent as well, uh, which iswhich is more telling sometimes
than actually speaking out sotrue.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
What was the uh percentage, anthony of europeans
?

Speaker 1 (06:14):
it was like 42 last last time was 58, this time it's
42 it's like 17 17 from southamerica.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
There's like 50 like you know, it's like the US
consensus man.
What's going on?
I know.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
Interesting as well is that Erdo has friends in
Africa.
He's highly regarded in Africa,which those cardinals are kind
of such a weird mixed bag tothink about because they're not
in on the politicking and I betthey could be very easily
manipulated if, um, because youyou know I mean I'm sure you've

(06:51):
read about how previousconclaves have went um and it's
usually not as squeaky clean anduh free from uh politicking as
the rules uh seemingly lay out.
So yeah, consider.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Well, you sent me.
This is a paragraph from thatMarathi Celli blog.
Yesterday we also received sometasty details from the general
congregation of cardinals.
The interventions of CardinalIke and Cardinal Robert Seurat
were very well received theformer with his doctrinal
clarity and accurate diagnosisof the ecclesial situation in
Europe, the latter with a voicethat, as always, combined

(07:29):
spiritual strength with a verbalelegance that does not need to
shout to convince.
The good tone that prevailsamong the cardinals is also
surprising.
There is courtesy, there islistening and, despite the open
wounds of recent years, there isa desire for unity.
So what I wanted to just touchon is we've had this very
strange thing.
So you guys are both converts.

(07:50):
Nick comes in in 2020.
You come in in 2022.
If we happen to get a CardinalSeurat or an Ike or an Erdo or
even like I'm telling you,everybody was like throwing
pizza ball out because of hisgoofy name and stuff, and
they're talking about the Israel, palestine stuff.
But what's interesting aboutpizza ball is that, because he's

(08:13):
dealing with so much stuff onthe ground, you don't know his
actual positions on some of themore controversial stuff.
Like he's just not a guy who'sout there.
You know loud with the boyswith these cultural issues,
which leads me to believe he'sprobably much more on the
conservative side, just becauseI think a lot of these guys
tended to just quiet down aboutthis stuff to keep their head

(08:36):
down, and I think he really didhave a lot going on on the
ground with with being thepatriarch of Jerusalem.
So, but what's interesting foryou guys is you have never known
a time where you are defendingthe Pope against the secular
media.
So what, what we've had for thepast 12 years is the secular

(08:58):
media reading about Francis,taking some things out of
context to make it sound likehe's saying something worse than
he actually is at most times,and a lot of the especially for
converts coming in like you comein, you're excited to become
Catholic.
Like you want to defend thePope and you find that you're
defending the Pope against otherCatholics.
And that's got to be a verystrange position to be in, to be

(09:28):
in like I'm neither of you everever lived through the days of
benedict and john paul ii.
When benedict gives thatregensburg address and the whole
secular media comes after himcalling him islamophobic and
saying things like that, likethis.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
That's something you guys have never experienced and
it's a there's a possibility youcould yeah, it's, uh, it's
definitely surreal for mebecause I went through a
discernment process obviouslybefore I converted, and a big
part of that discernment process, a major part of what was

(10:00):
keeping me from converting, wasthe sort of aura that Francis
had.
This is a liberal Pope, this isa progressive Pope, which is
falsifying Roman Catholicism.
So that was a big part inconsidering my own conversion.
And then, obviously, myCatholicism since then has been,

(10:21):
has been, it's it's very, it'svery weird to phrase it,
especially now that he's dead,but it's been protective of
Francis, I guess you could say,because I understand, coming
from a point of somebody who isespecially speaking back to the
Protestants, yeah, exactly.

(10:43):
I want to communicate to themthat things aren't as bad as you
think.
It doesn't mean that there'snot problems, it just is.
It's not something which isdestroying or falsifying
catholicism.
You can still come into thechurch and, uh, that that's
something that I've needed to uhemphasize, but it's.
It would be really weird tohave you know the actual it's

(11:06):
the actual most based Pope everright.
Now that he's gone, we can admitthat was a meme the whole time.
We weren't serious about that.
But yeah, I think that thoseare my thoughts on it.
It's very bittersweet, it'svery complicated, but you know,
I still love pope francis and Istill love pope francis.

(11:27):
But it's hard for me to uh lieto your face and say that I
would uh want another 15 yearsuh, francis the second like come
on, that's just that's justcrazy, that the, the, the, the
thing that we're going to, Ithink.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
I think something that's going to be interesting
nick said this to me in thebreak in the green room was, um,
like there could be a way thatit flips where the guys who were
popesplaining are now on theother side.
But I don't, I don't thinkit'll happen like that, because
I do think those guys most ofthem, not all of them, most of
them, uh, I'm not talking aboutlike mike lewis and stuff like
those guys are gonna freak outif you get a conservative pope.

(12:03):
But I think the other guys,like you know, I think generally
their instinct was to just, youknow, guard their father's
nakedness, or however you'd wantto phrase it.
So, but I do think if the nextpope comes in, let's just
hypothetically say a Sarah comesin and Sarah says OK, we're
getting rid of the gay blessingsthing, like we're just, we're

(12:24):
just getting rid of it.
He's from Africa, africanbishops came together.
What if he just says look, thisis a confusing statement, we're
going to scrap this one.
If he comes in and he starts,he completely loosens the
restrictions on TC and brings itback to Samorin Pontificum,
then, please God, if somethinglike this ever happened.

(12:47):
Let's say, cardinal sarascelebrated a latin mass as the
pope, like something like that.
Now stuff like that startshappening, where you're seeing
the francis pontificate kind ofget overturned and flipped and
stuff like that.
I do think those guys are goingto have a very difficult time,
seeing that they spent the last12 years defending positions
that are just getting tossed outby the.

Speaker 3 (13:07):
I mean you you have to remember that, like cardinal
muller, he's he's papa bile acardinal muller.
He has um some degree of ofsupporters.
So cardinal muller is he is notafraid to go out there and to
um even state that his holinesshas stated things which are
heretical.
And uh like he came out the Ithe day after his death and had

(13:30):
an interview where he made thecomment of of something like
nobody wants some old man, youknow, going around saint peter's
square kissing babies, and thiswas like the day after pope
franc died.
You know, I read that and I waslike that is definitely harsh.
I don't think it was, you know,proper to say something like

(13:52):
that so near after HisHoliness's death.
But he is Papa Bile.
I mean, if he became Pope I'msure he would not shrink back
from looking upon hispredecessor as problematic.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
People are saying this like Serrat, as a Novus
Ordo, 100%.
All these guys.
Cardinal Mueller, you guysdon't understand Cardinal
Mueller that we see him now islike this arch-conservative he
was a liberal before Christianposted something earlier today
that was really interesting andhe said I can't believe this
chat only came out of a contest.

(14:32):
That's awesome.
You posted something earlierwhere you were pointing out how
certain cardinal or certainbishops or cardinals, whatever
they were under Benedict werelike these super based, like
conservative guys, and then whenFrancis came in, it was like
they completely flipped on allof their positions.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
Yeah, it's like some of these guys Sounds like.
Congress.
Yeah, true, I mean, that'sliterally true, it's exactly
like it.
I mean, some of these guys,they're saying I've seen certain
Cardinals and I've been readingtheir profiles, because I've
read about probably like 50 or60 of the profiles on the
college of cardinals website.
Some of them are like, yeah, wecan criminalize homosexual acts

(15:14):
.
And then like three years later, they're in, you know, they're,
they're completely in on, uh,you know, normalizing
homosexuals, you know, insodomitical relationships, um,
receiving the Eucharist, likecrazy shifts like that over a
span of a few years.
And you have to ask yourselfwhat the heck happened.
Like what is going on here?
Are these people basically justpoliticians playing to whatever

(15:38):
the popular winds are?
And it's hard to say thatthey're anything but that, to be
honest.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Hey, let me ask you this.
This is a really good question.
So, like hypothetically I knowit's pretty absurd to even think
this is going to happen.
Let's just say a bishop waselected who's not a cardinal and
he's not present in Rome.
I have no idea.
How would that play out?
Well, I don't think they canrelease the white smoke until
the person agrees to be the pope.
So it's like you know, michaeloften um all three of us receive

(16:12):
an immediate excommunication.
That'd be I'm just cooked we'reall had a really good question
too.
Um, uh, yeah, I, I would say,wait, where's Joe's question?
Um, so, yeah, like, a public,sin requires public repentance.
So, no, if you're, if you'relike a public, like a politician
who supports abortion, youcan't just go to a priest and

(16:36):
confess that I think you have topublicly say you know, I
renounced my former positionbecause of the public damage you
did.
Now it may be enough to get youto heaven, you know, but yeah,
I would, I would think, to undothe public damage you caused.
So, okay, wait, what was theother quote you sent me?

(16:56):
It was the Swedish Cardinalsaid that he hasn't.
Yeah, we talked about that,right, like, like, these guys
literally don't know each other.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
It's really, um, it's uh, like the most of these guys
have their information from themedia and what they've seen in
the media we have what we havenow, and it was unfortunate that
they weren't able to translateinto italian yet, although that
doesn't really matter becausemost of the guys um can uh, most
of the global Cardinals canspeak English.

(17:25):
But there is the college ofCardinals report website, which
is.
This website is literally beingused by Cardinals, like in
their research for the rest ofthe candidates and if you read
the, the profiles like they arevery much to the right.
I mean they're pro TLM, theyare, you know, obviously they
hold to all the Orthodoxpositions within the right.

(17:46):
I mean they're pro-TLM.
Obviously they hold all theOrthodox positions within the
church.
So that's going to be a veryimportant resource as well that
I hope a lot of them go to thatrather than just going to weird
traditional media stuff.
But have you guys heard of thesituation between Parolin and
Zen?
Heard a little bit about it.
Yeah, I didn't know.

(18:07):
Oh, so this is.
This is like some real quick.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
If you guys do send super chats in, I'm going to let
Christian finish speaking andthen I'll get to the math.
So I don't think I'm ignoringyou.
I'm going to highlight anysuper chats that come in, I'll
any good questions that come in.
Just put a question mark andI'll.
But I don't want to interrupthim again.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
Yeah, so when it comes to the Cardinal Zen versus
Cardinal Parolin situation, so,cardinal Parolin, they had the
Vatican-China Accords.
Have you ever heard of that?
Basically, china gets involvedin the appointing of bishops,
catholic bishops in China.
And obviously, cardinal Zen, heknow he's been uh persecuted by

(18:48):
the Chinese government.
He's literally like on housearrest from the Chinese
government.
He's a you know, he's a livingmartyr.
Uh, right now uh prosecuted, uhpersecuted by the, by the
government.
And Zen like, straight up, likewent to the media and like
called Parilyn a liar.
He's like, he's a liar.
He's, you know, he'sunscrupulous.
He just like threw us to thedogs, like he completely

(19:11):
capitulated to the communistsand he's, I think, 93 years old,
he's really old and he wasn'table to travel at all.
But the chinese government lethim have his passport back so he
could travel for just this.
So Cardinal Zen did likeeverything he could to travel to
the Vatican and now he'ssupposed to like go to the
general congregation and likebasically smack Parolin in the

(19:35):
face in front of everyone andsay, like you're a liar, you're
unscrupulous.
I definitely think that he'sshaking in his boots right now
because with a lot of thoseglobal South and Asian Cardinals
.
They don't really know as muchabout the interior politics or
some of these major events.
They're just dedicated toserving their own communities.

(19:57):
But if he did that, I thinkthat would be like a death blow.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
Look already, like Palin's trying to spread the
rumor that he's got 50 votesalready, like that's.
That's how like messed up thisguy is and that is going to back
I don't think Palin's even inthe running.
Honestly, I think he'd be waytoo controversial.
I really don't think they'relooking for that.
And I also think that the guyswho went, so the, so the

(20:27):
cardinals who lived through thejohn paul ii papacy and the
benedict papacy, I think thatthey kind of had this feeling
that no matter who we put in,whether it's bergoglio or
anybody like the you know we'regoing to see a continuation of
those two policies which wereessentially like all right,
liturgy is cut out for grabs,but the doctrine cannot change
like johnpaul ii was very clear on his
Veritatis splendor.
And then Benedict came in.

(20:48):
He was basically the head ofthe CDF during that pontificate.
So I think they thought youknow well, the church is going
to protect the God will protectthe church from error.
And then when Francis comes in,I think all of those guys got
shaken up and they're going tobe much more on their guard for
a political Pope this time, andI don't think any of them want

(21:09):
that revolution to continue anda lot of the conversations that
are going on right now are veryfocused on look, we need, I
think, these, these Cardinalsand bishops throughout the world
.
They have been shaken to theircore by the faithful being so
upset.
Like it's one thing to have themedia mad at you because you're

(21:29):
Catholic, but you could always.
We're going to get into this inthe after show because I had a
two hour 15 on one debateagainst my Lutheran in-laws, all
against me, on Saturday.
It was two hours long and whenI tell you, we got into
everything.
Everything it was.

(21:50):
But this is basically like thesebishops are used to dealing
with media and people like thatcoming in criticizing them
because of their stance on gayunions or gay marriage and
things like that.
But they can always present thefront and say, look, this is
what the church teaches.
You know like they can havetheir own nuanced approach to it
, but this is what the churchteaches.
And that kind of all got.
Not that the teaching changed,but Francis kind of put these

(22:13):
muddled statements out that madepeople think these teachings
were up for grabs and they'rejust not.
So I think that these bishopsand cardinals were really shaken
by that and I do think theywant stability back and they
want their own faithful to lovethem yeah, it kind of depends on
, I think and this is a questionfor you too but, like if they
were to put in.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
In my view, if they were to put in a, say,
hypothetically, a sarah or aburke, that would be the
catholic equivalent to like.
You know, it's 2016 electionnight and we just like, forget
obama I was thinking likebasically burning his butt.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
Yeah, there you go, it could be it's that like
ground shaking right.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
It just absolutely freaks everybody out.
But here's, here's one reasonI've been thinking like it
wouldn't surprise me if erdo isthe candidate that they end up
picking.
And the reason for this is justbecause when you look at the
whole panoply of candidates, youknow they typically don't pick
like a guy on the fringe,generally speaking.
But the thing that we keephearing over and over and over

(23:19):
again is some type of unity popeand also pope that would be
solid on doctrine.
Now, I don't know if you guyswatched the funeral of pope
francis, but when you watchedhis funeral you know there was
so much latin, there's gregorianchant, there's polyphony.
Yeah, they're busting out allthe old copes.
They got rid of um.
I had a friend who sent methese uh photos.
They got rid of thecandlesticks that pope francis

(23:41):
used on the high altar of saintpeter and they put back in like
the old golden ones from thebenedict era.
So it's like, clearly, the theymissed the pumping
circumstances.

Speaker 3 (23:52):
I saw, I saw all that right, right the um, like,
literally, they didn't, theydidn't wait for his body to cool
and they were like pulling outthe old cope.
They were pulling out, you know, the peckpecked world crosses
again.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
It was wild.
I have a friend who's a he'skind of like a penitential
hermit, like discerning hermit,that's over in Rome right now.
He goes to the Angelicum, sohe's in St Peter's fairly often,
and he was informed that backin like the last few years the
Holy Father banned most, if notall, just any type of form of

(24:26):
mass from taking place at theside altars, and the sacristans
would have to come out and theywould have to stop people if
they were just going to be goingup to say mass and it was just
really, really awkward.
So my thought is it's like okay, clearly there's a lot of

(24:47):
people who want the pomp andcircumstance, when you take that
with the whole.
We want a unity pope, but wedon't want to go so far right as
to just freak everybody out.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
I feel like erdo or something like that would be the
candidate because he would be,at least in our view, like
center right and and they'realso dealing with things like so
francis tried to get away fromthis idea that the church is
european, right, so he'selecting all these cardinals
from outside of europe, butpolycism and europe are
inseparable.
Like they, the faith is europeand europe is the faith.

(25:11):
It's just, you do need a veryeuropean bishop of rome.
Because of what europe is goingthrough, in particular right
now, with all the immigrationand all the problems they're
facing, they're on the verge oflosing the faith.
Like you really do need a, aeuropean pope.
For that reason I mean the, the.
It would be crazy to have someanother south american pope or

(25:35):
some pope from, you know, newguinea or something like.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
It's just, it's crazy to freaking, I call that.
There's, like you know, twocardinal electors from the Ivory
Coast or something like that.
Yeah, I read that and I waslike, okay, that's kind of
strange.
If God blesses us with anItalian pope, it will be a
wonderful year because Italiansthey have a lot going for the
like the papacy, and Italiansit's like peanut butter and

(26:01):
jelly.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Did you ever read what Benedict said about the
papacy?
Like he talks about the, theRome, like the Roman, the
diocese of Rome should have a, abishop who's connected to the
diocese of Rome, like and, andhe really talks about how
important it is that the churchis Roman.
You know it's like it's it's avery important thing Before we

(26:24):
move on.
Church is Roman, you know it'slike it's a very important thing
Before we move on.
I do have to do the ReckySincelor ad.
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(26:46):
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that stuff.
I did.
I want to get to andy's comment.
Um, where the heck is it?

(27:06):
Uh, mr wagner, your deeply feltreaction to pope francis's
death tempered my reaction toact on the side of charity.
Thank you for that, um, Iappreciate it.
Yeah, well, I'll tell you, Ilistened to a father, charles
murr, this morning and he kindof got me off the black pill a

(27:28):
little bit like I, because Ikind of have this, I I kind of
stand in the middle where, inthe middle of the opposite of
the middle, I don't want amoderate pope, I would rather,
um, a cardinal sarah or asoupage, like I don't want a
moderate because the churchneeds a cure right now and I

(27:50):
don't know if the church isready for that cure and it needs
, it may need more, like youwill.
You will understand how deep thecrisis is, kind of you know
beating until we actuallyunderstand that this, this is,
this is we're talking about theCatholic faith for all time.
We really do have a crisis onour hands and it's not just

(28:11):
about having a good Pope.
It's way deeper than that.
It's about the foundations ofthe faith itself and how people
are living that faith out, ourwhole understanding of living a
penitential life.
All these things kind of justare like we're losing our
Catholic identity by by mixingtoo much with the Gentiles.
You know, it's kind of likeHellenistic Judaism got.

(28:33):
It's like we're we're too mixedin with the atheist culture and
we need to kind of distinguishourselves.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
Mm, hmm, mm hmm Well, I just, I just don't really
want a leftist.
So yeah, I agree, I'm glad tohear that.
It would be a nightmare for mebecause I just don't even know
how I would continuepersuasively evangelizing.

(29:01):
I guess I would need to changenot exactly change anything
essential about what I believe,obviously, or the doctrinal
principles, but change myapproach for sure.
Which would be it woulddefinitely put a damper on it,
although, you know, under theFrancis pontificate we did have

(29:22):
some of the largest gains inconversions to the church.
So thank you, pope Francis.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
Well, I think what was interesting about Francis
was he would always push to theboundary but like not cross it.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
It was like you know.
He kept flaunting the femaledeacon thing, but he never gave
it to you.
He would like he would wantthese things to make people
think the church was going to dothe thing, and then he like the
married priest, all of them, hebrought right to the precipice
and then he backed off.
So I kind of think that is theholy spirit protecting it from

(30:03):
going too far.
So so I don't know.
Like you said, it'll be verydifficult to evangelize under a
pope like that, just like it wasunder Francis.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, it'd be rough.
I mean, the reason I say thisis, you know, everyone keep my
parents in your prayers.
Anti-catholic to like everyonce in a while going to the tlm
with me.
To like every once in a while,like even on their own going to
adoration, to now they're likereading scott hahn, so it's like
very, very slow.

(30:33):
But if we were to have like aperlin come out or something
like that, it would just like myparents, you gotta, you gotta
understand it's like they're.
They're technically not babyboomers, but they're baby
boomers, you know what I'msaying yeah, and it's like.
These are, you know, fox news,conservative yeah, my dad too
man so I'm just like picture,trying to like explain for
another 15 years.

(30:54):
So, guys, what this reallymeans is this it was so hard
yeah we get pizza all in the foxnews.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
Conservatives have a different reason for hating us,
exactly, exactly.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
I was like I was trolling with people.
I was like what?

Speaker 3 (31:09):
Have you seen the Ick , cardinal Ick?
There was an article writtenabout him Like when he became a
cardinal, there were no, no.
When he became a bishop, therewas like national, like freak
out all throughout theNetherlands Like people hated
him.
They were like thinking ofliterally charging him with like

(31:31):
hate crimes for the ways inwhich he talked about gay people
.
And then there's like anotherquote where it's like, yeah, and
Cardinal Ick also purposefullydownplayed the atrocities
against the Jews that theCatholic Church has committed.
And I'm like, okay, we're back.
I think we're back.
Cardinal Ick is going to be.
You're coming from there too,he's going to be like yeah guys,

(31:53):
I don't know why they'recomplaining.
We never mistreated you guys.
The papacy has always treatedyou guys much better than you
deserved.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
What would be amazing is I know so many people who
it's funny, like when I when Iwent to the cathedral.
So I went to the cathedral inaustin for a really long time
and then we were, we were, um,accompanied out.
Let's just put it that way.
We were accompanied out becausethe tlm wasn't uh, it was
banned from there.
But I had all these olderpeople that I would talk to,
that would go to the new massand they're what I call the fox
news set days.
So it's the.

(32:25):
It's like the people who youknow they're the most
interesting group to me they are.
It's like everything is amazing,father altman followers and
that like they're the mostinteresting group to me they
would come up to me and we wouldjust be talking about, you know
, like the weather or something,just randomly, and they're like
did you see what that commiepope did this?
That I'm like waiting for pizzaballa to be get in, because

(32:48):
then they're going to be like wegot a literal nazi in there.
What are we going to do?
First a commie, now a fascist.
What the heck's happening to?

Speaker 3 (32:55):
our yeah, and he's going to choose.
He's going to choose pious the13th and they're going to be
like, oh, they're naming themafter hitler's pope exactly,
exactly you're such aninteresting group because look,
say whatever you want about thesedes, but at least they're
consistent, right like they're.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
They're.
They're very logicallyconsistent in their thesis.
It's like, okay, there's beenno pope since this time and then
everything you know.
But to, to, to be like a noviceordo, going like normie and
just think francis is, is like Idon't know, man, it's just,
it's just a strange.
You know, I don't, I don't knowif I think they just see the

(33:32):
church politically, like throughamerican politics.
I think.

Speaker 3 (33:35):
I think that's the only way they can see it is
through the political lens it'sso frustrating because it was
one thing to see some of theCatholic commentators give like
mixed feelings or whatever whenPope Francis passed out.
That was one thing.
Yeah, like not exactly excitedabout hearing stuff like that,
but at least I'm moreunderstanding towards it.

(33:55):
But then you have like theQAnon tards who are out there
saying like, oh, the globalistcommie Pope is finally dead.
Globalist commie pope isfinally dead.
Yeah, and it's like it's some,you know, like whorish woman who
you know, who like, literally,has never had, you know, an
illuminating thought in herentire life, and all she does is

(34:16):
, you know, garner simps.
That's her entire follower base, and she gets special treatment
because she's a woman and she'sout there critiquing you, his
holiness the successor of saintpeter.
It's like come on, guys, we, wecan't just pretend that these
people, um, you know, haveanything worthwhile to say about
you know, our pope.

(34:36):
Like we can, we can cometogether to tell them well, my.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
My position on this was always look if any
protestant ever said somethingabout franc.
I'd attack them because, likeyou don't get to talk about my
family like this, but like ifI'm talking inside baseball with
my Catholic brothers, it's likeall right, look guys, we got a
little bit of a problem overhere, you know what I mean.
But like nobody outside thefamily is allowed to have that
conversation.
That's an internal familydialogue.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
Yeah especially women , you know, especially women.
Could you imagine some randomwoman like yelling at your dad,
Like that'd be, it'd be awful.
Yeah, Some broad.
You know some broad out there,you know yelling at your dad.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Did you hear about the theologian who sent the
letter to Cardinal Farrellimploring an investigation of
Pope Francis being a heretic?
He quoted Pope John the fourthand saint pius the fifth.
Any thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 (35:24):
I didn't hear about this I, I heard, I heard a
little bit about this, but, um,I I answered this actually to
some friends the other day it'snot gonna happen, it's, it's not
gonna happen.
I mean basically two things.
One, I actually fully agreewith christian.
I was appalled at some of evenmy friends who, like when pope
francis passed away, were justlike gleeful, like I.

(35:46):
I give all, all credit tochrist.
The first thing I did was say aprayer for him, because you
know that's only going to bechrist well, I had to.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
I had to force myself to.
I'm not going to lie like I didpray for him, but I had to like
like really it was like a veryconscious decision to like make
it's like okay yeah it was.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
It was devastating for me because I've gotten in,
I've actually gotten into thepractice of um.
You know, trying not to checkmy phone first thing in the
morning.
You know, trying to like domental prayer before I check any
of the online stuff.
So I was literally preparingfor prayer.
You know, out on my couch, likewaiting for my coffee to get
done, brewing, and my wife likecomes running out of the bedroom

(36:28):
and she's like francis is deadand like I'm.
I'm sitting there trying tolike, you know, get into like
the proper dispositions to prayand I just hear that and I it
just like it.
It tore me up, like I was.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
Hey, at least you got at least you got like a decent,
you know your wife bringing youcoffee and stuff.
My experience was totallydifferent.
It was I drove all night froman institute parish back home,
like a five hour drive becauseyou know everything in texas is
like six hours away and I I goto bed at like 1 30 in the
morning, get three hours ofsleep at like four something in
the morning.
I have a friend who wakes me upon a phone call and without

(37:05):
saying nick, I'm sorry fordisturbing you, he's just, like
I announced to you, pope francisis.
I'm like what the heck?

Speaker 1 (37:12):
but yeah, no, he's, he's not, not gonna be pope
francis is not gonna beinvestigated for for heresy or
something so that all right, sothat's all so, listen, I don't
think he'll be investigatedeither, but the thing is, we all
witnessed the presidentialelection get robbed, right, like

(37:33):
we all saw that in 2020.
Like, we watched anassassination attempt.
I was like what?
We've seen some wild things inthe past few years, right, like
really wild things we've seen.
Yeah, do you think it'simpossible that there's such a
division inside this conclavethat you get two claimants, that

(37:56):
there's such a division in thisconclave that maybe a group of
Cardinals break off and say, no,we're going to pick our own guy
.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
Whatever happens, I'm Team Tagli.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
I'm going to say we live in some very interesting
times and everything's beingpresented to us right now Like,
oh, everything, the men are socordial and everything, but the
thing is there is no moderate inthe eyes of a revolutionary
Right.
So a lot of people saying,talking about we need continuity

(38:36):
from Francis.
We cannot just act like thisdidn't happen and go back to the
way it was before.
And it's like this is verybizarre that these guys are now
talking about continuity, aboutcontinuity, when all the
catholics who lived through therevolution, when they mentioned
continuity, it was like no, youknow, because benedict tried
really hard to make ahermeneutic of continuity where

(38:58):
we saw a continuation ofcatholicism wasn't a rupture, it
was a.
But francis came in and kind ofthrew that thesis on its head a
little bit and now therevolutionary is like well, we
need continuity with francis.
So in in my mind, I look atthat and it's just, those guys
do not see a moderate as apossibility.

(39:18):
There is no moderate.
It's the revolution mustcontinue.
So if you did get a guy likewe've been talking about this
entire show, I don't put it pasta group of left-wing crazy nuts
to go and try and elect theirown guy and the German church
breaks away and we get a realschism.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
That's perfectly possible.
You know, there's nothingtheologically against it.
I don't think it's entirelyprobable, but you know, working
with probabilities, anything canhappen.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yeah, I think, oh, I think it was Mueller actually
who brought this very topic up,not like in the last week or
something like that, but I don'tknow if he said he was talking
about the German church.
I think he mentioned it, but Ithought about the reality of if
we were to get a Seurat in thereor a Burke in there.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
It would not surprise me if German bishops would
leave, because it's like in popefrancis after pope francis's
past, we've seen them go aheadand push forward like the
full-on, just, if you will,full-throated blessing of
homosexuality um, yeah, I mean,when it comes to the, the german
bishops, the german bishops, um, I can't imagine under a uh,

(40:27):
you know, orthodox, well,pastorally conservative that's
the way I like to phrase it,rather than orthodox, because I
do think Pope Francis wasorthodox, a pastorally
conservative, you know, not slumpriest, worker, priest, you
know, man of the people, kind oflike how Pope Francis was, but
like a, you know, like astickler for the rules.
When it comes to one of theseindividuals, if they become pope

(40:52):
, I can't imagine that manywould just sit back and tolerate
what the German bishops aredoing.
So it seems like there's goingto be a schism one way or
another.
I can't.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
That's what I'm saying.
So, look, I'm looking at itlike if you get even what they
would consider a moderate or acenter right guy, right, because
all of these guys are conciliarguys, like they are.
They're products of the council.
I mean, kale pointed outearlier today that the majority

(41:24):
of the cardinals that are theretoday were around 20 years old
when the council closed, or sothat means they got ordained in
the old right and then the rightswitched right up to the novus
ordo right after theirordination around that.
So these guys are still.
They may not have participatedin the council, but they are
still children of the counciland they lived through that

(41:47):
revolution.
Now I think if you got a guywho's in the mold that we've
been talking about a Saran Erdo,a pizza ball or somebody like
that I think that there is gracethat comes with the office that
could be conferred upon them.
And when they see the revoltfrom the German bishops and they
see the revolt from the media,like they may pull, pull, you

(42:10):
know, like a real hard, just sayyou know what it's like.
You're not going to gain thelove of the world.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
You may as well bring the catholic faith fully to the
people, and that's that's whatI really pray for yeah, it could
come down to the situation ofjust, you know, at the end of
the day and I'm not not sayingthis to be rude to them, but
cardinals are politicians,bishops are politicians, and so
sometimes it can come down tojust something like, okay, if

(42:38):
this pope was to be in, like ifa Syrah was to be in, and he was
just to come out and one of hisfirst addresses, just like the
two great enemies of the WestIslam and homosexuality enemies
of the west islam andhomosexuality it's like, okay,
you know, nick doesn't reallysee the germans sticking around,
unless there's some type oflucrative reason to stick around
or political reason to stickaround.
That would be the the onlything well they would have.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
Well, yeah, because their whole, they would lose all
, all their financial.
So, like, like the germanchurch, the way it operates is
people get taxed right out oftheir like paychecks and it goes
right to the church.
So if you want a Catholicburial, a Catholic funeral, even
if you don't go to mass everyweek, like you need to pay that
tax.
Now if they break away from theCatholic church, I don't know

(43:22):
what happens with that, but Imean all the all the German
bishops just need to be arrestedand thrown in prison.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
Sanctus.
This makes the most sense,honestly.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
And I agree, francis tried to placate them right, and
he kept them in the tent and hethrew the trads out.
That's essentially what he did.
But if okay, I'm thinking ifyou get a Pope that comes in, a
Pope that gets elected and sayswe're going to throw Traditionis
out and we're going to bring itback to some more pontificum
rules, elected and says we'regoing to throw tradition on us
out and we're going to bring itback to some more pontificum
rules, like, I really thinkyou're going to see that side of

(43:54):
the church blow up even morezoopy.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
You want zoopy?
Yeah, he's the moderate.
We looked into zoopy at all,not at all.
No, it's so funny.
He's kind of like um, he's aprogressive cardinal, but so
he's like, you know, sant'egidioI think he's Sant'Egidio
aligned.
He's, you know, like he'sprobably a little bit further

(44:18):
left than Francis.
He's kind of like the littlebit more progressive option for
the Italians over Peril.
But Zuppi, even though he's asuper big progressive, he like
celebrates the Latin Mass and heloves the Latin Mass and he
probably would like reverse.
He probably would reverse therules back to the benedict, the
16th rules, which is really,it's really funny.

(44:38):
We would have a um, you know,we'd have our uh, I think.
I think I saw that the germanbishops did a um like a gay,
some sort of uh like gay, uh, Idon't know, gay aligned mass of
like celebration or somethingstupid like that.
We would get like the gayaligned tlm would be well.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
The thing is those guys look, some of those guys.
They are gay and they love thepageantry of it it's like
anglicans.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
Yeah, the anglicans.
They're gay and they just lovethe love, the, they love the
pageantry of it right.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
So you even said how, like the right after Francis
goes like they start bringingout all of these old, like these
old things, that because thereis something so unique, like OK,
so I passed this video aroundtoday of like a charismatic
worship thing and I'm like,would you want to be at this?
You know, and everybody is likehalf the people are like, well,

(45:31):
as long as it's not at mass.
I'm like, would you want to beat this?
Half the people are like, aslong as it's not at Mass, I'm
fine with it.
It's like, no, no, don't saythat we are Catholic and
Catholics are wholly unique inour weirdness.
We incorporate paganism.
We don't incorporateevangelical charismatic stuff.

(45:52):
That's not what Catholics aresupposed to do.
Like we.
We need to be uniquely weird inour ritual, like our and, and
the thing is, that weird ritualthat we do attracts people and
it attracts a lot of people.
And this was part of theconversation we'll get into in
the next show, because mybrother-in-law, who was really
not raised in much of any faithwe were talking to his mother

(46:15):
and his mother is a formerCatholic who left the Catholic
church, she divorced his fatherand now she's in the same sex
relationship and then she wentto an Episcopalian church and
all over the place, but she grewup in the revolution.
Episcopalian church and allover the place, but she grew up
in the revolution.
And my brother-in-law was liketalking about like church and

(46:37):
he's like I don't know if I'mgoing to go to church, like I
kind of want to go where theygot incense and like I don't
understand what's going on andshe just could not wrap her head
around why we wanted thisancient ritual like that.
Like she lived through therevolution and she couldn't stay
.
She was giving me the samelines.
My mom gave me that meat wetalked about with kale the other
night and she's like wecouldn't understand anything.

(46:58):
That mass was so stuffy wedidn't know what was going on,
this and that.
But I think those are justcatchphrases that they were told
and that they like I don'tthink they actually thought that
they never.
It's not like they.
You know they were little kidsduring this thing and they kind
of heard the catchphrases of theday going around.
But there's something reallybizarre about catholic ritual

(47:19):
that attracts people andespecially the young people that
are coming and they're looking,they're seeing the chaos of the
modern world and they're like Iwant to go back to something
stable and ancient and they lovethe ritual of it.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
Yeah, it's funny because I was just talking to my
mother about this.
My mother, she's veryProtestant, definitely not a
Catholic, but she told me we hada conversation.
She told me that she can reallyunderstand why a lot of the
younger people, especially, withall of the disorder and dismay
around us, that we are attractedto something like Catholicism.

(47:55):
Because she's like the way thatI view Catholicism, which is
really weird because a lot ofpeople actually still view us
like this, like the way I viewCatholicism.
They are like completelyresistant to any sort of change,
like they will stand up to theabortion stuff, they'll stand up
to the gay marriage stuff.
They'll stand up to theabortion stuff.
They'll stand up to the gaymarriage stuff.
They'll stand up to, you know,the contraception stuff.
And they, you know, no matterwhat, no matter how many people

(48:17):
disagree with them, they'llalways kind of stick with it.
And people still have this viewof the church, even though it's
kind of funny because a lot ofpeople within the church don't
have that view of the church.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
have that view of the church.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
There's a lot of people outside of the church
that have this view of thechurch.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting, man.
We're going to get into it onthe next show because I don't, I
don't want to, in case anybodyever sees this on YouTube.
But it was such an interestingconversation and it came about
because my nephew my nephew madehis first communion and I'm his
godfather and I was at aLutheran church.
So I'll get, I'll get in andI'll I'll explain it all over

(48:52):
there.
But I don't know, man, any likeI.
I went and we did the.
I did three or four shows onWednesday last week and then we
had this long weekend where meand Rob didn't do anything.
I couldn't wait to just get onand have this conversation
tonight because it's it's one ofthe most exciting times to be

(49:13):
Catholic.
Like you guys are new Catholicsand you guys get to experience a
conclave pretty quickly withinyour conversion and you're
seeing the internal workings ofthe church and you're seeing the
politics.
But I don't remember a conclaveever.
I remember, vividly, remember aconclave ever.
I've, I've, I've, I remembervividly benedict's conclave.

(49:34):
I remember francis's conclave.
I do not remember it being thiscontentious, where people are
on the edge of their seats, likeman, we really can't get
another francis, like it's justwhat you know you wouldn't have,
that people would have lovedthe jp3 or a benedict the 17th
after either of theirpontificates yeah, yeah, I think

(49:56):
part of that's due to socialmedia, just because it's like,
just think about how much medialandscape has changed from 2013.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Now, that's not all, that's not the only reason.
A lot of it has been like theconfusion that you've seen in
the last decade plus, but somuch of it is just also people
like us even just going andtalking about it Cause we've
talked about it like even likepre, pre McCarrick in 2018, that
it's just the Catholic speakingcircuit.
That's about it, right, theCatholic answers crowd, some of

(50:23):
the more independent hosts, andthen kind of Marshall doing his
thing, and then, after 2018, andespecially after COVID,
everything blew up, I mean adecade ago.
Any of these conversations,especially where it's just like
three guys hanging out justchatting about church politics,
it's just so foreign because,like, let's be honest, the only
popular catholic youtube backthen and also kind of true today
is like five easy steps todebunk sola scriptura and it's

(50:46):
just like, wow, this is the 50billionth video I, I think
people.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
I think people would prefer this to like the
professional Catholic pundits onEWTN, and I think that the like
the Catholic Inc.
Because we should probably havea conversation about them too
on the other side.
Eventually, I think we're goingto have to have that
conversation on the other side.
We're going to have to havethat conversation on the other

(51:11):
side.
We're going to have to do theCatholic and conversation,
because those guys I think theywould love to be sitting and
having a conversation like this,but none of them have set
themselves up to do it.
You know, like they just theydidn't put themselves in this
realm where they could be honestabout things.
Like they're kind of in aposition where they they have to

(51:32):
tow certain lines because theyhave donors and things like that
, so they can't just have theseoutright honest conversations
about things.
So I do think we provide aunique insight into these.
Like what people would want tolisten to, as a conclave is
coming up, yeah for sure.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
And yeah, people are saying I'm hope pilling, yeah,
okay, so I watched bro I'm justsaying I'm just saying I it, I
like it, compared to the othernight.
The other night you were justlike Nick, you're out of your
mind.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
Well.
So what happened was I sawVigano's letter and it was just
like such a black pill and I'mlike man, I got to figure out
how I want to go into thisBecause, first off, none of us
know what's going to happen.
None of us know, so we can sithere and like, yeah, it's fun to
speculate and it's fun to talkabout this stuff and say, oh,

(52:16):
what if, what if?
But none of us know what'sactually going to happen.
So I'm not going to go intothis black pilling.
Like I want to go into this,and especially for the new
Catholics who've neverexperienced what it's like to
have a Pope who you felt likehad your back.
Like I want a Pope who I feellike loves his Catholic children

(52:37):
.
Like I want a Pope with afather's heart, which I really
look.
It's really nice to have aconversation with Christian
where I because, now thatFrancis has passed, you could be
a little more honest about thisstuff, because I do know the
difficulty that a lot of peoplehad during the pontificate.
It's like you're afraid to saycertain things and the people
that did say it people wereaccusing us of being crypto, set
A's and things like that.

(52:58):
But there is something verydifferent about having a poke
who you feel like loves you andat least has your back.
So when you're defending thesedifficult issues, like you know,
fighting people on the abortionissue or on the contraception
issue or any of the big issues,you at least felt like the
people who were in charge lovedyou and had your back, and even
the Cardinals that are we seenow as progressive leftist

(53:21):
lunatics.
Those guys even towed thecompany line and would come to
all the pro-life events and theywould like.
It was a very different church12 years ago, very different,
and it's not as different likeit was a very different church
12 years ago, very different,and it's not as different as it
was from before the council.
But, like you know, thepre-conciliated church and the
post-conciliated church aredrastically different.
Don't get me wrong.
But there's still a very bigdifference in the benedict

(53:43):
church and the francis churchand I don't know what comes next
.
I'm just praying that it,whatever pope gets elected,
there is grace that comes withthe office, and I also do
believe god has not abandonedhis church.
Amen, like don't believe godhas abandoned this church.
I do think that god still knowsand no matter what happens,
even if we do get a bad pope,I'm like fully confident that it

(54:04):
is part of the story ofsalvation history and god
intends for that to be whathappens to us in that time
exactly, christian put out areally good video, um, like the
day after.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
so you were going over basically the conclave and
you had this really good line atthe very end that like
synthesized my feeling on things, which was you know, god,
essentially, something like godis still on the throne, I still
have hope in god, it's going tobe okay.
That was the basic just behindit and and I'm reminded of and
this is what I've been tellingpeople of the story of Shadrach,
meshach and Abednego it's likethey were about to be tossed

(54:38):
into the flaming furnace andthey have this just epic line,
right, just think like you'reabout to.
You think you could potentiallydie, but they say our God is
able to save us and if hechooses, he will save us.
And even if he doesn't save us,right, he is still God.
And even though it's not asdire in my mind, my thought is

(54:58):
no matter what happens, right,god is able to give us that
which is good and even if hedoesn't, he is still good.
And the Catholic Church isstill true, mm-hmm, absolutely.
And the Catholic church isstill true, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
Yeah, if you.
If nobody's watched JoshuaCharles's most recent episode or
might not be his most recentepisode, but he did he did an
episode about the church beingRoman.
It was three hours of some ofthe most like.
It was probably the bestpodcast I've heard in years.
Dude, it was so good.

(55:31):
First off, they go at the endof the episode.
They talk about how the um, theincident where the, the
pharisees, come to jesus about,uh, should we pay taxes to
caesar?
And he's like, well, show methe coin whose image is on the
coin.
So there's a half shekel taxthat the temple charges and

(55:51):
there's this, the half shekellike stops being minted by the
Roman Empire.
So the Pharisees go to theRoman Empire and they ask them
if they can mint the coin andall this stuff.
And the Roman Empire onlyagrees to let them mint a coin
that has the image of Baal on it.
So the Pharisees were tellingpeople you can't pay images, you

(56:13):
can't use the Roman coin to payyour taxes to the temple
because that would be likeoffering idol worship.
Right, but really the halfshekel that they get minted has
the image of an idol on itanyway.
So but the way he explained itlike he goes into it.
I'm doing such a terrible jobbutchering it right now, but
what?
The way he explained it, like hegoes into it and I'm doing such
a terrible job butchering itright now but what the Pharisees

(56:33):
were doing with the court ofthe Gentiles, which is the outer
court of the temple where theGentiles are supposed to be able
to come and worship the God ofIsrael, they were implicitly
denying that the covenant couldbe shared with the Gentiles,
like in this act that they weredoing.
They were implicitly denyingthat the covenant could be
shared with the Gentiles, likein this act that they were doing
.
They were implicitly denyingthat the covenant could be

(56:54):
shared with the Gentiles.
So all those prophecies in theold Testament about, you know
the the Gentiles have seen agreat light and all those things
like they.
Just this is why Jesus goes inand he overturns the tables in
the temple is is because of thethings they're doing there.
But that whole podcast justgoes into how.
When in the temple is becauseof the things they're doing
there.
But that whole podcast justgoes into how, when we say we're
Roman Catholic, it doesn't meanLatin Catholic, it's not, it's

(57:15):
not Latin Catholic.
Especially if you're ByzantineCatholic.
Like the Byzantine empire wasthe Roman empire, like there you
are, there is no salvationoutside the Roman Catholic
church that doesn't mean Latinright, there are plenty of right
.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
There's 27 rights under the roman catholic church.
Yeah, I was about to say, didthey?
Did they mention, uh, romanbeing one of the marks of the?

Speaker 3 (57:35):
church in that, yeah, the mark of romanness.
Yeah, I was.
I've, uh, I brought this upmultiple times to eastern
catholics and for some reasonthey always see it about this.
But you know, I guess it's, Iguess you know, well, you have,
you have the right, you have theright procedure.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
I've told people I said Christian, if he were Pope
he would do the best thing.
He would go after thebislabbers.
He'd take a bunch of scissors,cut off all their beards, force
them to say the TLM.
And if I was Pope I'd makethose things happen.

Speaker 3 (58:19):
And I'd say you know, I know you're married, and they
always seem to be very sourabout it, but it doesn't make
any sense to me.
You pledge allegiance, uh, or,you know, pledge your fealty to,
uh, the bishop of rome.
Like what, what?
How could this possibly beoffensive to you to call you
roman catholic?

(58:40):
Like we, we have ourcatholicity through our
communion with the roman pontiff.
The definition of schism, youknow, is being out of communion
with the roman pontiff and thosethat are in communion with him.
Yeah, so I don't, I don't, Icannot even conceive in my mind
how, uh, one could be offendedby being called a roman catholic
.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
Yeah, well, because the term is first the term is
first devised as an insultbecause the the mark of the
church is roman.
But, like, you have to thinkabout the structure of the
church, the church is the popein.
To think about the structure ofthe church, the church is the
Pope in Rome, which was Caesarwas in Rome and then all of his
governors throughout the empireand they would govern their
provinces and things like that,and that's the whole.

(59:20):
That's the Pope in Rome and allthe bishops govern their
provinces.
Like, the church is Roman inits structure, it's Roman in in
the way it's built.
But the word in the way it'sbuilt, but the word, the term
Roman Catholic, comes about fromProtestants trying to insult us
, calling us Romanists, you know.
So, like it was, the church wasactually hesitant to accept the

(59:43):
term Roman Catholic, but theneventually it did, when it
really started to understandlike or work out you know on
paper what that actually means.
And then they were like yes, weare Roman Catholic.
So, bobby said, the conflatingof Latin right with Roman
Catholic is a problem in theEast.
I always refer to it at theLatin or Western church to
distinguish I'm Byzantine, whichmeans I'm explicitly Roman

(01:00:06):
Catholic, but still a biz LARP.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
Yeah, I hope, I hope that you um, you know, get
better.
I hope you get cured of yourbizlar.
I was talking, I was talkingwith one of these guys, um, in
real life, one of the bizlarpers, and I was like you know,
you're a roman catholic, you'rejust not a latin catholic.
And they look at me and they'relike, oh yeah, that's awesome.

(01:00:30):
Yeah, I'm going to start usingthat.
You know, you could easilyevangelize the biz larpers.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
One of the biggest tweets.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
Shaving their beards.
If you just, you know, showthem how they could be called
Roman Catholics, then it willjust solve all their problems.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
One of the biggest tweets I ever have is I said
there's no salvation outside theRoman Catholic church and the
all the Easter is flipped out onme.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
I'm like you guys yeah, I always try to, I always
try to show them the.
I'm like have you heard?
You know what the theologicalnote is for the mark of
Romanists, right?
And they're like what's thetheological note?

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
And I'm like well, okay, so we are going to go over
to locals and we're going to um, oh, christian, you can leave
it on your channel if you want.
Yeah.
So if you want to get it forfree, uh, come over to our
channel.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
All right, you know what we'll try oh yeah, because,
yeah, yeah, that's actuallyfine.
Yeah, if you guys.
If you guys aren't localsubscribers, you should be,
because you guys are cheap and Idon't like cheapos, but you
guys should definitely be localsubscribers on our channel, not
christian's channel.
So if you want to support theshow, come over to locals, but
if you are too cheap and youwon't reach into your pockets,

(01:01:41):
go over to christian's channel,which is scholastic answers and
you can watch the rest of theshow over there.
Please subscribe to thetraditional.
Thomas nick's doing a bunch ofnerdy stuff over on his channel
um, it's actually a lot lessnerdy now.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
It's more uh, uh, you know, I think uh a voice crying
out in the wilderness ofcatholic youtube.
I like, I like a lot of the,the change in content hey, I
appreciate it, man.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
Actually I was telling people like you and I we
should do a uh, a dayrevelazione series, like yeah,
that would go through bothvolumes, like actually slowly
but surely, take our time I needto.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
I need to, um, uh, my friend ethan dolan.
He was on punch of thequietness actually, uh, probably
like a year and a half ago, um,but I need to introduce you to
my friend ethan, because we readthrough a lot of it together
and we.
That was just so formative forus because it confirmed a lot of
the the things that we haddetermined when we were

(01:02:38):
struggling with Protestantismand then eventually converted.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Yeah, they're great books.
I've taken two courses I'mactually finishing up one more
course on De Revolazione as wespeak using these textbooks, and
so they're just phenomenal.
Like we got to, we got to dosome type of series, but the
only person I know out therewould be Christian.

Speaker 3 (01:02:56):
Because he's like one of the only base YouTubers out
there.
You could bring on MichaelLofton for a DeRivaLaccione
series.
That could be fun If they don'twant to make a Locals account.
Just make a Patreon account andthen become my patron.
So true, a Locals account.
Just make a Patreon account andthen become my patron.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
So true.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
Okay.
So listen, people who aresaying they don't want to create
a Locals account Wait, where isthat?
I will say this theconversations we have over on
Locals are much more personal.
We kind of let our.
We say things.
I share things I would nevershare on YouTube.
It takes two seconds to go andstart a Locals account.

(01:03:33):
If you guys, I'll be watchingon Christian's channels.
I told you this longer too.
You're not getting any love fromChristian over there, bobby,
all right, so we're going to goover there.
I want to tell you guys whathappened to me on Saturday, and
then I think we might have tohave a conversation about
Catholic Inc.
Not just Catholic Inc, there'sother people too that the way

(01:03:54):
they're handling conversations Isaw Eric Sammons called Candace
Owens a total nut job becauseof her position on the moon
landing.
Then you see Jordan Petersoncalling people psychopaths and
all these other things, becausethey are starting to notice
things and I think that if theydon't figure out how to handle

(01:04:16):
this conversation better,they're going to have a major
problem.
Handle this conversation better.
They're going to have a majorproblem because you can't just
write people off as crazy andpsychopaths and nutjobs.
Because we've lived through alot of events over the past 15
years mainly the past six years,though, with what the
government did to us that peopleare starting to look at all of

(01:04:36):
the narratives they've been fedfor a very long time and they're
starting to question everything.
And they're not going to beopposed to hearing a point of
view that says, yeah, maybe wedidn't land on the moon because
the government lies to us abouteverything.
The same people that killed JFKthat same decade might've lied
to us about landing on the moon.
Maybe the narrative we heardfrom world war two is nonsense.
They need to.

(01:04:57):
If they want me to stick withthese narratives that they've
been giving, they're going tohave to present a better story
than they've given me, so we'regoing to talk about that on the
other side.
We will see you guys thereThursday night.
Rob will be back and we willtalk to you guys there.
Let me start removing some ofthese things.
All right, I got to leave.

(01:05:19):
I got to take YouTube off.
Right, that's YouTube Remove.
See you later, youtube.
Ok, I could leave it on X.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
I can leave it on X, feeling generous tonight.
Yeah, I'll leave it on.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
X.
So if you're watching on x,I'll leave it up.
So okay, so we go to um my okay.
So my nephew's communion is issaturday and they're lutheran
and he's my godson now he, I wasasked to be his godson before I
had my reversion and all thisstuff.
So I'm like really debating ifI should even go to this thing

(01:06:01):
and I decide to go because I'mlike, okay, what are?
Like what is going to happen ifI don't go?
It's just going to cause a bigfight.
I'm going to go but I'm notgoing to receive.
So now I haven't been to thischurch since, like before my
reversion.

(01:06:21):
When the last time I went, itwas like it was like more
reverent than a novus ordo, likepeople would go up and receive
on their knees they hadintention, like it was a super
reverent.
Uh, lutheran missouri synodservice.
Oh, it's an lcms interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:06:36):
Huh, they're lcms yeah, like that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
So it that.
So we go to this thing.
Now communion time comes.
That when I went this timetotally different pastor the
whole thing was like a mockeryof everything regardless, I
would have never received anyway.
But me and my wife don't go upto receive.
So when we go back to mysister's house, my
sister-in-law's house, thefamily's like well, why didn't
you guys receive?
I'm like, okay, here it goes.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
I wasn't hungry y'all .

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
No, I said look.
I said for the same reason thatif I invite you guys to a
Catholic mass you can't receive.
So I break out my missile, my1962 missile, and I open up to
the examination of conscienceand under the first commandment,
like you're examining, aconscience says have you

(01:07:26):
participated in non-CatholicChristian denominational liturgy
?
Like, like, have you been toanything non-Catholic?
And I'm like I have to go toconfession for coming to this
thing with you guys.
I'm just telling you I'm likeno, we could never receive.
I said, because the Catholicchurch and the Lutheran church
are not in communion with oneanother.
I said there's some things theCatholic church teaches that are

(01:07:50):
very difficult and they're noteasy to understand.
But I'm a faithful son of thechurch and whatever the church
teaches I just accept.
So then they go around thetable and it's one person after
another bringing up all thedifficult Catholic teachings and
they're like well, I don'tagree with the church that says
this.
And the next one well, I don'tagree that the church says this.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
My father-in-law said it he's like well.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
I don't agree that they don't let anybody into
communion.
They should let anybody intocommunion and I'm like dude, but
that they don't let anybodyinto communion.
They should let anybody intocommunion.
And I'm like dude, everybody'sdrinking.
They're all yelling at me andI'm just sitting there like this
.
I'm like are you guys done?
Is everybody done?
They're like yeah, I'm likethis is the Protestant
Reformation.

(01:08:33):
I'm like we're sitting throughthe Protestant Reformation right
now.
The Catholic Church it was onechurch, the Catholic Church, and
then all these people came upand like I don't like this
teaching, I don't like thisteaching, I don't like this
teaching.
I don't like this teaching.
So, especially the communionone, I said Luther broke
communion with the CatholicChurch.
So it was.
You weren't barred fromcommunion.

(01:08:55):
Until Luther broke communionfrom the Catholic Church.
The church was universal and wewere all receiving at the
Catholic church.
But you left for this reason.
You left for this reason.
You left for this reason.
There's not a single reason onearth that I would ever leave
the Catholic church, like I.
Just the hardest teachings arethe ones I love the most.
So it wound up getting like my.

(01:09:16):
Like.
I said my brother-in-law'smother was raised Catholic.
She hit me with the.
I went to Catholic school for12 years.
You know the meme and she'slike but I left the church
because I can't believe inoriginal sin, that infants will

(01:09:36):
go to hell if they're notbaptized Literally Lutheran.

Speaker 3 (01:09:40):
Huh, I said, they're literally lutheran, literally
lutheran.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
So like the dude they , so she, she gets into
purgatory with it.
Like I had to sit and have atwo-hour discussion with them.
But the way I handled it was I.
It never got contentiousbecause every time they'd voice
something I said now look, whatI'm going to do is I'm going to
tell you what the Catholicchurch teaches.
I'm not going to tell you Ithink you're wrong.

(01:10:06):
And this is this.
I said I'm just going to tellyou what the church teaches and
you can't be mad at me that thechurch has these rules on the
book.
So it wound up getting to apoint where I said they were all
getting like a little upsetwith me and I said what you guys
are asking me to do is leave mychurch because you don't agree
with my church.
I said and it's if I told youthat I don't agree with your

(01:10:28):
church, like you'd be mad at me.
Like it's just a very bizarrething that happens.
But Protestants think they cancome and tell you that your
church is wrong and that's notsupposed to offend you, but if
you say the same thing to them,they'll be super offended.
It's just.
It was a really really strangeconversation, but everything

(01:10:49):
wound up.

Speaker 3 (01:10:49):
You know, everybody left on a good note.
Yeah, I found it to be reallystrange because, like, I had a
conversation with myfather-in-law Because my
father-in-law, for those whodon't know, is literally a
Protestant pastor, mygrandfather's a Protestant
pastor, my uncle's a Protestantpastor.
Yeah, I come from a familialenvironment of Protestant
pastors, which is why I was aseminarian.

(01:11:11):
It was kind of like a familything that a lot of people did,
and my father-in-law he was.
You know, I told him that we'reconverting, that we're
converting to Roman Catholicism,and at first he was just like,
oh, so, like you're convertingto Roman Catholicism.
I'm like, no, we're convertingto Roman Catholicism.

(01:11:32):
And he's like, well, lexi, mywife, like Lexi, wouldn't
convert to Roman Catholicism.
Like she was raised better thanthat, she knows better than
that.
Like no, we are converting andthen he was very, very upset
about it.
And I was like you've saidbefore.
I've heard you say all the timethat you know you're very

(01:11:55):
big-tented, you know you're verytolerant, you know we're all in
the same team, type Protestant,like oh, you know, the
differences aren't thatimportant, so why are you so
upset?
You know you're the old, youknow the Gary G Lagrange quote
the tolerant.
What is it?
Tolerant in principle,intolerant in practice, type

(01:12:17):
thing.
And it's like, well, you don'tbelieve anything, but you know
you're really, you reallystrongly act on something that
you apparently don't even careabout that much.

Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
Wait now, did you, did you?
Did you both come into thechurch after you were married or
before?

Speaker 3 (01:12:33):
Yes, this was after we got married.
We were married for about ayear a little over a year at
that point, actually, no, no,this would have a little over a
year at that point, actually, no, no, this would have been a
little over two years at thatpoint when we entered.
When I was thinking aboutconverting, it was about a year,
and then about a year and ahalf when I finally decided to

(01:12:53):
convert, and then, six monthslater, i-.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
Did your wife convert because you told her to, or was
she coming along in the journeywith you?

Speaker 3 (01:13:01):
She was.
It was a really strangesituation.
So I uh, I had sort of like aninkling of a thought about rome
and then I did like reallyintensive reading about it and
like a lot of points in which,because I was raised as a normal
protestant, I was educated as anormal protestant, so I had a
lot of misconceptions about whatroman catholicism taught and

(01:13:25):
once I started to get a littlebit more interested in it, I
started reading more about itand a lot like the first stage,
I think, in anybody's conversionprocess is you see, a lot of
the misconceptions go away andthat kind of freaks you out.
Yeah, so I was at that stageand that was before, kind of
like the whiplash where a lot ofpeople have where they're like,
okay, my misconceptions aregone and I can kind of view them

(01:13:48):
in a fair light, but I stilldon't want to convert.
So I was kind of in that stageand my wife and I had a long
trip because we lived in Floridaat the time when I was in
seminary and my family lives inMaryland, so it was like a 13
hour car drive.
So I talked to my wife for youknow this, this was difficult,
you know, talking to women forhours, but my wife for hours and

(01:14:13):
hours about all of themisconceptions you know, and she
was asking a bunch of questions.
She was like really kind ofpiqued her interest because
before that point she justwasn't at all.
Uh, I mean, she wasn'tpro-catholic, she was an
anti-catholic.
She kind of like didn't reallycare.
Um, you know, she's kind oflike I just want to sort of go
to church and, you know, readthe bible, sort of like didn't

(01:14:34):
really care that much.
And then like ike's, you know,hours and hours and hours, to
where now she was in that stage,to where, all of, by the end of
the car ride, you know, she wasin the stage where all of her
you know misconceptions weredrawn away, but she didn't have
that whiplash stage.
She was like, well, ok, are wegoing to convert?
I was like whoa, whoa, whoa,wait a second.
You know I so I'm sort of likethe meme where it's like I'm

(01:15:02):
leading you to things that Icannot myself, uh, you know,
have.
You know I can, I can tell youabout all this stuff, but I'm
just not there yet.
And it was, uh, a road.
I mean, it was like anotheryear before.
Uh, I was at the point where Ihad um.
You know we'd fully convertedum, but yeah, she was.
She was definitely really proconversion a lot earlier than I
was for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:15:24):
That's interesting.
Like my wife originally, likewhen so we got, I knew, to get
married in the Catholic church,we had to get a dispensation
from my bishop.
She had to agree to raise thekids Catholic, but she was
Lutheran.
And then when I had myreversion, I'm like, well, I
want to start going back to mass.
And she's like, okay, I'll goto mass.

(01:15:44):
I'm like, but you can't receive.
And she's like, what do youmean?
I'm like you can't receive at aCatholic church.
She goes, okay, well, there'sno way I'm going to have my kids
going to a church and they'rereceiving and I'm not going to.
So my wife goes through the RCIAprogram because she wanted to
be the same faith as her kids,but it wasn't until maybe two

(01:16:06):
years later that she herself hada conversion.
So she became Catholic rightaway.
But it wasn't until two yearslater where the faith became her
own.
But through the things like,especially what happened on
Saturday night, there wassomething like you never know
who's picking things up in theseconversations, but my wife.

(01:16:40):
Every time one of theseconversations happens with her
family, she is just reallyreaffirmed in how true
Catholicism is as she hears mearguing it.
So now my sister-in-law, whoseson.
I'm his godfather.
She goes to the communion prepclass and while she's in the
communion prep class, she's likethey're telling her well, this
is the true presence of Christin the communion.
And she's like well, what's thedifference in Catholics and
Lutherans?
So the pastor tells her thatCatholics re-sacrifice Jesus at

(01:17:03):
every mass.
My sister-in-law has this listof things she wrote down and
she's like so she called my wifelike two weeks ago, and she's
like I just wish Anthony wasthere with me.
And Nicole's like why, what doyou mean?
She's like I just wish Anthonywas there with me, that's all.
And I was like why, what do youmean?
She's like I just wish Anthonywas there with me, that's all.
My wife's like.
She didn't answer why.

(01:17:24):
She was just like I just wishAnthony was at the class so he
could have been there.
I'm like I don't even know whatshe means by that.
Then we go to her house and shebreaks out this list of all the
things the pastor told her aboutCatholicism Drops the Augsburg
Confession, refute this now,basically, dude, she wrote all
these notes down.
So this whole thing ishappening where everybody's

(01:17:45):
yelling and all this stuff andeverybody's getting all worked
up.
And I just said to mysister-in-law I said listen,
cassandra, I want you to keepthat list.
I said because when it's not socrazy and there's not so many
people drinking, because ifthere's no alcohol involved
involved would have been a muchbetter conversation, because
we're all having fun drinking,like our family's very loud.

(01:18:06):
You know what I mean.
So it just was one of thosethings where everybody's
screaming over each other.
Nobody was mad, though it waslike nobody was mad, it was just
kind of like contentious.
But like everybody, I was justlike look, um, I, I understand
all of your like.
I understand why you disagreewith this.
Like it's not an easy teachingto think.
You know, babies that aren'tbaptized go to limbo.
Like I had to like reallyexplain that.

(01:18:27):
I had to explain purgatory, butby the end of each explanation
they saw it differently.
And then, when I got into there-sacrificing Jesus at every
Mass and I said that is not whatthe Catholic Church teaches.
What we teach is that we arere-sacrificing Jesus at every
Mass.
And I said that is not what theCatholic Church teaches.
What we teach is that we arere-presenting the sacrifice of
Calvary at every Mass.
My brother-in-law's motherlooks at me and she goes you're

(01:18:49):
teaching a different Catholicismthan I was taught.
And I said yes, I don't doubtthat, like I don't doubt that
when she was a kid, they werehorrible at catechesisis and
they didn't tell her how thesethings actually were, because I
I remember being raised and notbeing taught these things you
know, the craziest moment for mewas I.

Speaker 3 (01:19:09):
I distinctly remember , um, my parents, like I, I was
this was like a while ago I was,I was moderating a debate or
involved in some sort of debateover the sinlessness of Mary and
my mom just happened to ask mebecause I was at my parents'
house at the time, visiting, andI was like, oh, I need to go do
something for like two hours.

(01:19:30):
You know, I'll be back.
It's just like an online thingthat I kind of got to do Like,
oh, what is it on?
And I'm like, oh, it's on thesinlessness of Mary.
You know.
You know, catholic andProtestant are debating it.
My mom's, like the Catholicsteach the sinlessness of Mary.
I was like, mom, you wereconfirmed in the Catholic church

(01:19:50):
.
You were like a Catholic untilmiddle school.
You don't know that theCatholic church teaches that
Mary was sinless.
And I think back at that andit's obvious, like my mom's, you
know she's not dumb or likeforgot or anything like that.
It was just catechesis was soterrible.
You really had like Catholicmiddle schoolers not knowing
that Mary was without actual sin.

Speaker 1 (01:20:12):
Do you know how few Catholics know that the
Immaculate Conception is aboutMary's conception and not
Jesus's conception?
Like most Catholics think theImmaculate Con conception is
about Jesus and they don't.
It's, it's um it it's.
It's just sad that that's thecase, that that's how they were
presented with the faith.

(01:20:32):
But I also think it's kind ofamazing that my sister-in-law
it's really interesting to methat they all know how seriously
I take my faith, right, likethey all get that I've studied
my faith very in depth.
So when they're presentingthese arguments to me and
they're getting upset, I'm likeI have an answer for all of them
.
But never once do any of themsay hey Anthony, maybe I

(01:20:54):
misunderstood this.
Like, like you seem to likethey're going to the Lutheran.
My in-laws are not Lutheranbecause they protest the
Catholic church in principle,they're just Lutheran because
they were raised Lutheran andthey're like oh, we go to church
and this is what we do, butlike they don't know that there
are fundamental differences inCatholicism and Lutheranism.
But my sister-in-law seems tobe curious and not in a not in a

(01:21:19):
like a confrontational way Likeshe.
She genuinely seems like shewants answers to things you know
.
And I also think that, likebecause my brother-in-law wasn't
raised in any kind of faith, hecan't step up to that role and
I think she kind of wishes hedid, but he is, he wasn't raised
in it, so like he doesn't know.
So I think they all kind oflook to me for answers to these

(01:21:43):
things and I think if the RCIAprocess wasn't such a big ordeal
and I could just ask a priesthey, can I you know?

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
can.

Speaker 1 (01:21:51):
I catechize this group of people so I could bring
the entire family into theCatholic, like I think they
would.
I really do.
I think they would trust myjudgment to you know and just
say, look, we all want to begoing to the same church and
receiving communion together.
Like we shouldn't be thisdivision and communion like this
?

Speaker 3 (01:22:07):
Yeah, it was.
It's interesting because thisis something I got from reading
St Peter Faber and looking atthe examples of some saints.
Saints, because a lot of peoplethey think of you know, oh, the
way that I'm going to doevangelism is, you know, I'm
just going to go out there andyou know I'm going to go out
there and just beconfrontational.

(01:22:28):
Like my brother, my sisters, myparents, like nobody in my
family is Catholic, like none ofthem really, even except my
little sister, none of themreally even go to church anymore
.
And you know, the way that I'veapproached it, especially
recently, hasn't been like veryconfrontational.

(01:22:50):
They know that I'm Catholic.
It's kind of like a thing thatthey're aware of.
I've tried to show forth thefruits of, you know, catholic
life, catholic grace, and youknow, with this awareness that
I'm Catholic, occasionallythey'll just ask me questions,
yeah, and I found, I found thatthat method, like once you kind
of get a conversation started,like there's a certain you know
thing that they kind of knowwhat's going on with being

(01:23:12):
Catholic, they ask questions,you know you, you give answers,
or you communicate with themsome materials.
If you don't know the answer tosomething, and since they're
the ones initiating, it ends upbeing um, you know, they're
listening a lot better.
People usually don't listen.
If you're just kind of gonna,you know, on a random Saturday
you're gonna talk at them too,like, yeah, like people don't

(01:23:34):
want to be lectured or talked to.

Speaker 1 (01:23:36):
It's dude, dude, it's , it's.
It's funny how like littlequestions wind up coming up all
the time.
And when I do explain thembecause I try, I've had to, I've
had to change my approach withthem, always Right.
So whenever I do talk to themabout church or anything like

(01:23:57):
that we're doing, like I try toexplain it in a way it's like,
oh no, we go to this Latin massand it's like this ancient
ritual.
And it's like, really Like Inever tell them they're wrong, I
just tell them about like, oh,this is this beautiful thing
that we do.
And then the biggest I think thebiggest attraction to them has
been them seeing the way me andmy wife live our lives and how

(01:24:19):
well adjusted my children are.
And they see that every Sunday,no matter what, we get up and
we drive an hour to go to massevery Sunday, no matter what
like they're.
You know, like we went outSaturday and we were drinking
wine all night and I went to hiscommunion Saturday and I still
got my ass up and went toconfession Sunday morning and
then I went to mass, you know,and it's like, so they called us
the next day to talk to usabout the night before and they

(01:24:41):
were like, that was such a greattime.
And they're like, oh, what areyou guys doing?
We're like, oh, we're drivingto Mass.
And they're like, oh, you haveto go to church again.
I'm like, yeah, we got to go tochurch again.
That didn't count yesterday.
I don't know what to tell youguys.
But there's been a softeningwith every conversation, for
sure, and I think the teachingsof our lady for them would be

(01:25:08):
simple Like my, my in-laws, they, they love the saints, you know
, like they're Lutheran but theylove the saints.
And like I've, I taught mynephew how to pray the hail Mary
in Latin and like they, theylove that stuff.
They just they get caught up inlike these weird contentious
issues that they've never evenlooked into before.
My favorite, my favorite thingI've told them about Our Lady is
I said, you know, one of one ofthe one of the biggest proofs

(01:25:31):
of Our Lady's sinlessness to meand how important it is to hold
that position, like to actuallyhold that she is the Immaculate
Conception and that she issinless is when you look at the
fruits of the Christians whobelieve that the Eastern
Orthodox and the Catholics evenif you think the Orthodox are
schismatic, whatever youropinion is monasticism and, um,

(01:25:53):
you know, like monasteries andconvents are what come from that
you don't see anything evenremotely resembling that from
Protestantism.
So once you lose the belief thatOur Lady is sinless and of ever
virgin.
Specifically, you lose yourunderstanding of what chastity

(01:26:14):
is and you lose yourunderstanding of the beauty of
virginity completely.
It's just like totally lost onyou.
And then you lose theunderstanding of what a celibate
priesthood is.
And all these differentdominoes just collapse when you
lose the belief that our lady isan ever sinless virgin.

Speaker 3 (01:26:30):
Yeah, this is an approach that I sometimes take.
I was in North Dakota thisweekend and one of the guys that
I work with he was like oh,there's this lobbyist who's at
the Capitol, you know, and he'sinterested in like maybe he's
Protestant, but you know, he'skind of you know well-disposed
sort of type and I have, likeyou know, five minutes to have a

(01:26:53):
short conversation with thisguy and he's, you know, he's
open to and he's like well, Iknow you do these things.
I probably won't get a chanceto speak to somebody who's
informed like this for a while.
So it's like just give me kindof your elevator pitch, sort of
thing.
And I talked to him and I'mlike okay, well, just think

(01:27:17):
about this real quick.
So in Protestantism you have alot of family members who are
Protestant.
You have a lot of friends,people you love, who are
Protestant.
So in Protestantism, you have alot of family members who are
Protestant.
You have a lot of friends,people you love, who are
Protestant.
A lot of them they're nice guys, right, and he's like, yeah, a
lot of them, they have civil,like natural virtues, you know
they're not bad people, rightand he's like, yeah, I mean a
lot of them follow the laws.
Take care of't know a singlesaint, do you?

(01:27:38):
And then he kind of like thewheels kind of turned.

Speaker 1 (01:27:42):
I'm like Protestants are not, and not just saints.
Not just saints in that theCatholic Church canonized the
person Like sanctity.
This is always why I think theconversation with Orthodoxy is
very different fromProtestantism.
It's because they understandholiness Like.
Protestants have no concept ofholiness whatsoever.

(01:28:05):
And in their understandingyou're saved and you can't lose
your salvation.
There's no reason to purposelydo works to grow closer to God.
Right and and especially duringLent, is a time where we
reflect on that as Catholics.
It's like good works will growgod's love in your heart.

(01:28:25):
But there are some saints whoare so much like christ, they
have such so much of him in themthat they're able to defy the
laws of nature in some ways,right like you have, like
levitating saints.
You have saints that canperform these healings and
miracles because they are somuch like christ, because of
their walk with god, that it itdefies nature, brings

(01:28:47):
supernature into things yeah, itgets kind of weird too because
it's like christian, you'll knowabout this.

Speaker 2 (01:28:54):
But it's like when you look at, for instance, like
the puritans, the puritans willwrite these, you know, 800 page
books on like what Christiansshould think about, which is in
a way pretty based, right, andit's just like heavy in exegete
from scripture.
But then on the side they'relike they have all these like
diaries and journals wherethey're like writing down their
sins and they're likescrupulously looking like am I

(01:29:15):
producing?
Not am I, but it's like theLord producing in my life some
type of salvific work producingnot am I, but it's like the Lord
producing in my life some typeof salvific work.
And then you end with them all,all these accounts of them
having like these terrifying,despairing deaths, and it's
really sad because it's likeobviously they're a soul number
one, but then, number two, it'slike you can get to the point

(01:29:38):
where you can rightly recognizethat salvation is a work of God.
That is is true.
But when you get to this pointwhere your actions essentially
are inconsequential, ultimatelyright, um, and they are, will
just be, if you will justnothing more than the fruits of
a saving faith or something likethat, a fiducial faith, then it
makes everything weird.
It just makes everything weird.

Speaker 1 (01:29:58):
My friend.

Speaker 3 (01:29:59):
Oh God, I was going to say this is something that
Gary Lagrange brings up whenhe's talking about, like the
mystical life among Protestantsand the other non Catholics,
because, technically speaking,any amount of sanctifying grace
virtually contains the entiremystical life.
So if you have somebody who isoutside of the visible bounds of

(01:30:22):
the church, they have, you know, they're invincibly ignorant of
their errors.
They have sanctifying grace,like this person has.
They have the seeds of themystical life.
But the those sanctifying meansof the Catholic church, the
external, especially theexternal direction of the
Catholic Church's teaching, isso intimately bound up with the

(01:30:43):
growth of the spiritual lifethat they just do not have the
tools to get any further.
So you have people, you have alot of these authors who you
read, and they're, you know,pastors, writing these massive
exegetical treatises theirentire lives, these polemical
treatises against Rome, eventhese spiritual works.
And there you can see from aperspective of Catholic,

(01:31:07):
ascetical and mystical theology.
You can see that these peopleare still, if anything you know,
in the purgative way or maybeeven just building, you know,
natural virtue and somethingthat even you know Aristotle
could reach in his teaching.
They're not getting into themystical life of the Catholic
Church, which you see especiallythrough the teaching of St

(01:31:28):
Ignatius.
You see, this is broughtstraight to the layman in our
traditional teaching.
Like any layman out there canbecome a saint, you just have to
will it sort of thing.
But in Protestantism, even theiryou know their clerics, even
their, their experts, they'renot reaching these the same sort
of level that you see in in ourhagiographies.

(01:31:50):
They think our hagiographies,they think the displays of
sanctity are insane.
You know, I've read what a lotof them say.
They're like this is justpsychosis.
You know it's a psychosisosislike who would, who would be,
you know, to get away from lust,you know who would be jumping
in the brambles.
Or you know, you lost your minddoing all this, uh,
questionable stuff.
It's crazy, but it's like, youknow, this actually just seems

(01:32:12):
like the way that a lot of us,the early fathers and a lot of
uh, you know saints and sacredscripture act, that they despise
the world which they don'tdespise the world.

Speaker 1 (01:32:22):
My friend bobby has a thesis where he says
protestantism is basically justjudaism.
Right, so like the jews, theyget circumcised and they can't
lose their children of god.
Like, that's it.
They're the chosen people.
If you get circumcised, you'rein the covenant where
protestants say, like a magicspell, and it's's like, I have
accepted Jesus as my Lord andsavior and that's it, you can't

(01:32:42):
lose your salvation.
But it's like essentially thesame thing.
It's not about like you know,you, you can't.
You can't be kicked out of thecovenant once you're saved.
But the I remember readingbefore, like as I cause when I
first revert, I actually comeback in through Protestantism.
So like, it comes through, likeProtestant radio.

(01:33:03):
And I read a book by AndrewMurray about remaining in Christ
.
Andrew Murray, I guess, is likea you know a writer in the
Middle Ages after theReformation, and he's just
constantly talking aboutremaining in Christ.
Remaining in Christ BecauseJesus in John's Gospel in the
upper room says remaining inChrist, because Jesus in John's
gospel at the uh in the upperroom says remain in me, if you

(01:33:25):
remain in me, I will remain inyou.
And he, like he does this wholeexegesis on that whole passage
and the whole book is about thatand it really is impossible to
remain in Christ like that,without the Eucharist, like that
is the way that happens.
So it is this.
It's just there's no depth toany of it.

(01:33:45):
There's not a real depth to anyof it, it's all just.
There's this beautiful scene inI posted it recently.
There's a movie, francesco.
It has Mickey Rourke play StFrancis of Assisi and he's.
It doesn't make him out to belike a hippie at all, he's just
like, like, really just struckby the gospel, and he goes and

(01:34:10):
he lives a life of poverty,right, and he's filthy and he's
living in poverty and hisfriends are just his.
Oh, I'm finished.
His friends are just so struckby the life he's living that
they come to him and they'relike what is going on with you?
Like why, why, why are youdoing this?
And he picks up the gospel andhe goes uh, when you go, uh,

(01:34:34):
take off your sandals, bringwith you no tunic, nothing.
And he reads that one linewhere it says take off your
sandals.
And he just looks at hisfriends and he takes off his
sandals and he goes and walksaround barefoot.
It's like there's somethingabout he's so captivated by what
he's reading in the gospel thathe just goes and does it.
And it's otherworldly, man, I'mtelling you.

(01:34:55):
There's one scene in this movieis otherworldly where you just
see how some of the saints arejust given so much grace that
they could read one line in thegospel and it just transforms
their entire life.
You know, that's awesome, whereprotestants, I feel like, don't
even like they read the gospeland then the rest of their life
is spent in the epistles tryingto work out so true so true so

(01:35:17):
they read the gospel once andthen the bible is you'll never
hear one of the synoptics never,so they they'll.

Speaker 3 (01:35:20):
So they read the gospel once and then the bible
is you'll never hear one of thesynoptics?

Speaker 1 (01:35:21):
never so they they'll .
So they read the gospel onceand then the rest of their lives
are spent in paul trying towork out their theology out of
six or seven verses.
And they'll read the rest ofthe epistles, but it all comes
down to these six or seven, or,if it's, like when you're, when
they're reading the paulineepistles, it's always well one,
it's always the pa Paulineepistles, it's always well, one,
it's always the Paulineepistles and two it's always the

(01:35:42):
first half of the Paulineepistles, not the second half of
the Pauline epistles Exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:35:46):
Ask them about Romans .
You know three, Romans eight.
You know they'll know aboutthat but they'll not be able to
tell you about, like, romans 14or something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:35:58):
Or 9, 10, 11, which are my favorite, or something
like that, or 9, 10 11, whichare my favorite.

Speaker 2 (01:36:01):
I love galatians 2 and galatians 3, but when you
get around to galatians 5, aboutlike, if you do these things,
you shall not inherit thekingdom of god, that's not about
christians, that's just tounbelievers.

Speaker 3 (01:36:09):
Oh yeah, it's like it's crazy to me because a lot
of my protestant family membersit's so hard to get them out of
this mindset.
It was so hard for me to getout of this mindset.
A lot, lot of people don'tunderstand, especially like
cradle Catholics.
They don't understand thepastoral difficulties around the
preaching on justification,because the way that I grew up
it was like justification waseverything, it was all we talked

(01:36:32):
about.
It shaped the way in which wetalk about everything.
So it's like my family is verymuch bound up in that.
And it's like you have familymembers who would identify as
Christians but they engage inwhat St Paul describes as those
sins to which you cannot inheritthe kingdom of God.

(01:36:55):
You ask them, it's like, hey,you're fornicating or whatever,
you're doing this or you'redoing that, like how, how you,
uh, inherit the kingdom of god.
And they're like, well, allsins are equal.
And you know, don't you sin?
You know don't you do thesethings.
And it's like, okay, well, whois imposing some sort of no,

(01:37:16):
they make an exception.

Speaker 1 (01:37:17):
They make an exception for two homosexuality
and being catholic.

Speaker 3 (01:37:20):
Those are the only two unforgivable sins.

Speaker 1 (01:37:25):
Even Ephesians.
They'll point out how.
In Ephesians it says you aresaved by grace, through faith.
But the book of Ephesians isthe most Catholic book you could
ever read.
It is Paul laying out hisecclesiology thoroughly about
how all things are gathered intoone in Christ and the body of

(01:37:46):
Christ is the church.
Like it is the most thoroughlyCatholic epistle there is.
I mean, I don't know how theycan read that and miss it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:55):
Well, the thing I mean what they'll do is, I mean,
each group's going to bedifferent, but it's like I think
I have the benefit at least ofus three is that my family comes
from a hardcore, like NewApostolic, reformation,
charismatic world.
So it's like what they will dois they won't.
They will be like, yeah,christian, your reform thought
you know that was good for atime, but you know you didn't
have the Holy Spirit, spirit andso, and so what, so, what?

(01:38:22):
So they're kind of likeactually it's funny I kind of
joke like a lot of charismaticsin some areas not everywhere,
but like are kind of cryptocatholic in the sense that
they're like, yeah, our apostlesand prophets have like the same
authority as the og apostlesand prophets and we're receiving
new revelation today.
That's bad, obviously, butwe're receiving new revelation
today and I found, at least inmy experience, they were all

(01:38:43):
hyper antinomians.
Yeah, so it was really reallybad.
So I was, I was this one kid, Iwas this kid who is, you know,
calvinistic in a family ofantinomians and I would just be
sitting there thinking like,okay, guys, you know, like the
ten commandments, right, that'slike a big thing.
And they would just say, I meanlike they'd look at a
six-year-old Do you know whatThou Shalt Not Commit Adultery

(01:39:05):
is?
Oh no, well, see, there you go.
Why teach the children?
That's an exact story that Iwent through.
There's just this insanehyper-emotional religion that
they've created.

Speaker 3 (01:39:16):
But it's those people experience.
It's so beautiful being able toevangelize them, because I've
talked with a lot of thesepeople before and the genuine
ones, like the, the, not theones who are, you know, just
coomers or whatever, but likethe genuine ones who are, you
know, they understand, they kindof have like this notion of,

(01:39:37):
okay, this is kind of what themystical life is and these are
what the gratuitously givengraces are.
These are the graces of, youknow, like miracles and
prophecies and healings andthings like that, and it's like,
well, actually, those are,those are good intuitions you
have, and it's actually theCatholic church which is going
to provide kind of what you'recatching there in the critique
that you're having, I can teachyou intellectual stuff and we

(01:40:00):
have the best of theintellectual stuff christian.

Speaker 2 (01:40:03):
I can teach you right now how to speak in tongues.
You just need to pay fivehundred dollars and then I can
teach you how to speak intongues what we realized
saturday is that everybody, uh,creates a jesus in their own
image, right?

Speaker 1 (01:40:17):
so I have a problem with this, I have a problem with
this, I have a problem with.
So I have a problem with this,I have a problem with this, I
have a problem with this, I havea problem with this.
So everybody that protestsprotests the Catholic church.
What you're doing is you'resaying I don't want to accept
Jesus on the terms he gave me.
And I don't think they do itconsciously, like I don't think
they're obviously not doing itconsciously, but in the, in the

(01:40:38):
things they're objecting to,what they're actually saying is
I don't want Jesus the way hepresents himself.
I want Jesus in a way I canaccept him.
So they created Jesus in theirown image, who's comfortable and
doesn't put like real demandson them.

(01:41:02):
You know, it's always, alwayscomes down to well, I'm a good
person and I believe in Jesus.
What it comes down to, and Idon't care which denomination it
is, I'm a good person and Ibelieve in Jesus and I'm going
to heaven, regardless of.
You know, that's what the fivesolas comes down to.
It's like oh, we can haveecumenical outreach with all
these different Christians, eventhough we fundamentally
disagree with all thesedoctrines.
So we should believe these five, which is essentially.
I believe in Jesus and I'mdoing my best to be a good

(01:41:24):
person.

Speaker 2 (01:41:25):
Yeah, particular indifferentism is one heck of a
drug, but I mean it's just,ultimately it's.
I'm reminded of Psalm 49, orPsalm 50, depending on your
translation, but where the Lordsays you have made me out to be
like one of you and you gone outlike a whoring, away with
adulterers, you've gone off withthieves, you've done all of

(01:41:46):
this actions of wickedness, andit's like is this not the og sin
, if you will, of the jews,because it's like they made a
god into their own image and andthen it's like when god himself
actually shows up, you know,then it's crucifixion time, but
it it's like how many people, asSt Paul says, you know, profess
that they know him, but bytheir works they deny him.

(01:42:06):
Like so many people would justrather go on creating a God
who's you know lovey-dovey.
Or, on the opposite extreme,there's like groups out there
who make God where he has nolove Like I fell into that a lot
before I became Catholic whereyou know God is just totally a
judge and you know, kind ofgoing through St Augustine's
despair, it's like how could God, who's perfect, love me?
Who's you know absolutelywretched, you know, so it's.

(01:42:28):
It's very sad.

Speaker 1 (01:42:30):
All right, so now let's get into uh, before we
wrap it.
Catholic Inc.

Speaker 3 (01:42:39):
So, speaking of Jews, speaking of Jews, why do?

Speaker 1 (01:42:42):
you OK.
So do you do you OK?
Well, let's talk about the Jews.
Do you think that is going tobe a preeminent issue going
forward in the church?

Speaker 3 (01:42:54):
Yes, I do too.

Speaker 1 (01:42:56):
I have.
I have this.
I see all the stuff going onand I just think it is going to
be the preeminent issue, whichis, I think, why people are
hoping a guy like Pete Zabalagets in, because he's at least
seen the atrocities on theground over there.
And it's not just you know,because I don't, I don't, I
don't know, man, I see the waysome, I see the way Catholic Inc

(01:43:25):
is handling this and I'm justlike what the hell are you guys
doing?
Like I don't, I don't get whatyou guys are doing.
It's.
It's crazy.
And they're all lining up withlike the same issues.
And it's weird.
It happened with DanielO'Connor with his alien thesis.
It's evolution it his alienthesis, it's evolution.

Speaker 3 (01:43:46):
It's um, like all these uh, all these weird issues
are lining up and they all seemto come down to the shibboleth.
It's uh, the shibboleth umstory from the book of judges to
where um, the a certain uh armythat israel was fighting
because their local dialect theycouldn't pronounce the word
shibboleth.
So if local dialect theycouldn't pronounce the word
Shibboleth, so if you couldn'tpronounce the word Shibboleth,
then they'd kill you.
So a lot of these issues.

(01:44:07):
They're not really thatimportant in themselves, but if
you can't say Shibboleth, thenyou're done, for they kind of
have this notion of what you areand they don't want anything to
do with you.

Speaker 1 (01:44:17):
Exactly.
Yeah, I think everybody I I seewhat they're doing and I see
they're bringing certain peopleup and I feel like the people
that they're bringing up andlike making the next round of
apologists and all that stuff,agree with them on everything
and they're just happy to bepart of the team and I just I'm,
I don't know.
I think this is going to end up.

(01:44:38):
I don't know, I think this isgoing to end up.
It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a.
It's both a theological issueand it's a um, uh, like a
political issue.
It's all wrapped in one.

Speaker 2 (01:44:51):
Yeah, you can't get away from it.
I was about to say like, go onto any any like comment section
of a YouTube video and you'regoing to see some someone
talking about this.
I mean, you're not going toescape it.
Part of it, part of it.
I think it's a multifacetedissue.
You have donors, right.
You have kind of some of theambiguities in the
post-conciliar world of, like,how do we interpret this with,

(01:45:13):
you know, in light of everything, certain narratives, right, and
then, when you take all thistogether would say, look at the
way gen z is trading this issue,right.
Gen z is openly saying likelet's question it all, let's
actually get into it.
I mean like I think, for as anexample, it's like I mean a lot
of americans are talking aboutthings like ethno-nationalism

(01:45:35):
for the first time, which it'slike even just a decade ago
would have been so taboo, andit's like it's still kind of
taboo, but it's pushing furtherand further to where in a couple
of years it's not going to be,and so it's like we have to deal
with this question.

Speaker 1 (01:45:49):
So the, the, the, the thing with like, especially
with like.
Did you, did you catch any ofour conversation with Father
Maudsley Christian?
No, okay, so yeah, him bringingup the actual events of that
horrible thing, Right, and wewere talking last time you were
on.
We were like you know, I don'tknow if that's the best way to

(01:46:12):
go about it, cause you kind ofget shut out of the conversation
the way you.
You know you're talking aboutthat and there's ways to bring
people over, but the way heexplained it was like if the if
this event is he didn't say itlike this.
This is what I took from it Ifthis event didn't happen like
they said and it is a lie youthink of the torment the German
people put themselves through.
It ruined an entire, itdestroyed an entire, more than a

(01:46:38):
generation, three generationsof young men, the damage that it
did to them afterward.
And if it's a lie, that's a manyou think about how crazy that
is.
But going back to the story ofall these narratives, I see the
way that they're approaching itand they're just labeling people

(01:46:59):
psychopath, labeling peoplenutcase.
It's like don't tell me I'm anut case because I question the
moon landing.
Like how can I not question it,like elon musk has been trying
for the past 20 years to getback to the moon and he can't
get back to the moon.
And this is 75 years later andwe have much better technology,
like clearly something is goingon.

Speaker 3 (01:47:20):
You need, you need the, you need the black women to
do the math for you, to figureout how to get there.

Speaker 1 (01:47:24):
Maybe that's what it is.

Speaker 3 (01:47:27):
Yes, our black queens have been impressed too long.
We can't get any of them to dothe human calculator work, it's
so true.

Speaker 1 (01:47:35):
So to call me a nutcase, because I don't like
that, they're not evenattempting to really address
these issues and they're goingto lose, it just backfires.

Speaker 3 (01:47:45):
It backfires on them.
I mean that's just a horriblemessage.
It was like, for example, I wastalking to a actually a
Dominican priest recently.
It was like such a.
It was such a like a sillyconversation, but I think it was
important to highlight.
There was like a statement thatI can't remember the the
specific guy's name, but he madeit like oh, if you think using

(01:48:08):
the word retarded is okay, thenyou're not pro-life.

Speaker 1 (01:48:14):
Oh, what's his name.
He runs the pillar over there.

Speaker 3 (01:48:16):
Yeah, he runs the pillar, but I responded to that.
I'm like, father, you'reapprovingly commenting on this.
It's like what's what's wrongwith you?
I mean, it's like sure, I, I Irespect people who don't think
that you should use certainterms, certain language, like I
think this is a, uh, definitelya point of discussion and I
think that you could, um, youknow, uh, we, we could have a

(01:48:40):
conversation about it.
But the way in which a lot ofthe people who think this type
of language is okay, the waythat they were being presented,
is just like very dismissive.
It's very much, you know,acting like you know.
You're literally like apro-choice activist.
If you think that this languageis okay and it's like, father,
how are you supposed to, byhaving this dismissive attitude

(01:49:02):
towards people who are actuallygenuine about this, like, hey,
because of the conventionalityof language, you know things
like that.
I just don't see this, and mostpeople don't use this term, you
know, in this derogatory way.

Speaker 1 (01:49:14):
You would never say it to a person who's handicapped
.
Ever, under any circumstance,would you say it to a person,
and the only way they're goingto get offended is if somebody
tells them to be offended by it.

Speaker 3 (01:49:25):
Exactly and I think that, if you know, if you would
have approached it in a in a waythat was, you know, normal and
rather than just being veryaccusatory, I think, like you
know, it's up in the air, likeyou could probably convince me
that maybe I shouldn't uselanguage like that, especially
not in public, but the way inwhich they approached it it's
like's like okay, you aresupposed to be as a priest,

(01:49:47):
you're supposed to be in manyways, like a leader and guide of
young men in catholic action.
You're not doing that.
You're more concerned abouttone, policing, about the word
retard, and it's, it'scompletely, uh, like flip no
person.

Speaker 1 (01:50:00):
What you're saying is so freaking important here.
Right, like these are, theseare supposed to be fathers to
these young men that everybodyjust want, like we're, I mean,
if the church doesn't grapplewith how they're going to handle
the young men in the church,like there's a reason that
people are watching your show bythe thousands and watching our
show by the thousands andthey're no longer watching the

(01:50:22):
other things like that that.
We had the conference I met youat in North Carolina.
Right, I got canceled from thatconference because I was
misogynistic, because I talk acertain way about women,
sarcastically, like,sarcastically, like I don't
actually demean women, I don't.
You know, it's like I'm makingjokes and I get canceled from

(01:50:43):
that conference because I'manti-Semitic and misogynistic.
And it's like the priest whocanceled me.
I wanted to grab him while Iwas there and just be like
father, like you see all theseyoung men here, they came to see
me.
The older men, they're in yourdiocese, like the old guys that
were at that conference.
They're the local guys who goto your parish and they're
coming for the conference.
All of the guys that are herethat are under 45 are here

(01:51:07):
because me and Rob are here.
They didn't come for anybodyelse.
So you're going to cancel mytalk, but forget just the 45
guys that came there.
There was an entire generationof young men who thought who
would think what I was sayingwas funny, and they're men that
need to be spoken to and taughtthe faith and you, just you, you
guys, don't want anything to dowith them like you just want to

(01:51:29):
write them off like they're.
You can't see the way like weare not in that time anymore.
I don't.
I was so tempted to respond tojd's tweet with because jd has
handicapped kids and I wanted tosay um, jd's kids are lovely.
Sadly, their father is retarded.

Speaker 3 (01:51:46):
I wanted to tweet that so bad but I didn't because
I didn't I see he takes theissue extremely seriously.
I'm sure he's a wonderful guy.

Speaker 1 (01:51:57):
Yeah, of course.

Speaker 3 (01:51:58):
I prefer to try to think better of people that
don't like me, because I thinkthat's important for my own
sanity and my own sanctification.
But really, if you want todiscipline, I do think there is
a lot of leeway for disciplineamong the ways in which young
men think.
I think there are seriouslyproblematic points.
But if you're going to approachthis in a way of dismissiveness

(01:52:23):
, just like assuming, like, oh,you think this way, like you
must be thinking this way, inbad faith In a lot of ways, you
know, no, I mean, we're thinking, we think this and even if
we're erring, it's erring ingood faith.
So like you ought to be, youknow, as a loving father, you
know here to correct us If youthink what we're doing is so
terrible, you know, even evenlike material sins disposed

(01:52:47):
towards bad acts, so like youshould be here to correct us.
You should be zealous towardsthat, and you know, approaching
it in this, in this way, is justall their talk of pastoral
nonsense, right like if I was ahomosexual, you would be a lot
nicer to me.

Speaker 1 (01:53:03):
Yeah, it's crazy, man , like these are young guys who
are clearly like fed up with thelot they've been handed because
the older generation hascompletely abandoned us.
Like you, look at the pollsfrom Canada and their and their
election yesterday, it'scompletely nuts.
Like the older generation justdoes not have an ounce of

(01:53:24):
concern for what they're handingon to the next generation.
It's like they just want theirendless cruises, they want their
house in Florida and they don'tgive a crap if housing is
affordable for the nextgeneration.
They don't care about anythingbut themselves.

Speaker 3 (01:53:37):
They'll reverse mortgage their house.
We'll talk about that.
Oh my gosh man.

Speaker 1 (01:53:41):
I forgot?
I told you about that.
This generation is sonarcissistic and insane, but
they just don't care about theyounger generation.
And it's like these are youngguys that are going to snap.
Like they're going to snap.
They're not finding girls,they're not going to get married
, they can't buy houses, theycan't get good jobs Like.

(01:54:01):
What do you think is going tohappen?
There's going to be a freakingcivil war if they don't do
something.

Speaker 3 (01:54:04):
I know this is, this is like a breeding ground of
some pretty dark things.
Yeah, and I've told, I've toldmy parents about that.
I'm like, hey, you know, momand dad, how many, how many like
unironic or even like ironic,like national socialists, you
know, and they're like, oh never.
And I'm like, well, yeah, Iknow quite a few actually, and
that's normal.
You know, you have these Hitleredits on TikTok getting a

(01:54:27):
million likes.
It's like there is this sort ofthing going down the line and
unless you actually treat this,you know, in a pastoral way,
that is going to be, you know,constructive.
Looking at what are those good,you know what are those goods
that they're tending towards andin many ways you know they're
having these corrupted goods.
What is the way in which we canhelpfully and healthfully point

(01:54:49):
them in the right direction,correcting them in a way that is
pastoral, in a way that's meantfor the salvation of their
souls, not virtue signaling infront of other people?
What are the ways in which youcan healthfully point this out?
They're not asking thosequestions of themselves.
They are much more apt to sayyou know, how do we treat
homosexuals?

(01:55:09):
How do we treat these women whoare divorced?
How do we treat?
You know these different groupsof people, and it's like, well,
how about like the young whitemen?
How about me?
How about my children?
How about my family?
It's because how about, like,what am I supposed to do?
I mean, I don't have anythingthat my grandparents had.
I mean my grandparents I'vementioned this before on the
show.
My grandparents built a city.

(01:55:31):
They built Baltimore.
They were steel workers.
They had nice jobs, they hadfamilies they could support.
That was completely strippedaway from them.
And now I have to move in thisperpetual way away from the
cities.
So how about us?
Are you going to speak to ourissues?
And now I have to move in thisperpetual way away from the
cities.
So how about?
How about us?
You know, are you going tospeak to our issues?
And Trump could have beensomebody like that, but
unfortunately, you know, he wentabout the broad tent way.

(01:55:53):
I almost see no, no priests andnobody in the Catholic Inc who
is, um, you know, speaking tothis and it's, it's fruitful for
being able to actually helppeople.
It's actually like somethinguseful you could talk about
rather than endlessly talkingabout.
You know, liberal TikToks or?

(01:56:14):
whatever else you want to talkabout.

Speaker 2 (01:56:17):
Well, it's and this is the sad thing when one of us
does something, they freak out,yeah, like, if you remember it's
like, like the it's.
It's a good thing that you seea lot of guys going back and
they're trying to I mean to be alittle bit meme-ish here but
like resourcing or doing a fullresource of, like actual
Catholic sources and you'reseeing, as a result of this,

(01:56:37):
like I mean, you and I talkedabout it, all three of us Mr
Horn's video came out about, youknow, catholic fundamentalism.
It's like there were somejustifying critiques in there
and then there was just a bunchof these like insane critiques
that kind of went along with it.
But it's ultimately because Ithink a lot of people in
Catholic Inc are more informedby secular media than like what

(01:56:58):
we see online, where it's justorganic people having
conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:57:01):
I don't know if it's secular media.

Speaker 2 (01:57:26):
I really do think these guys are trapped to
putting a very specific messagebecause of donors of it.
It's like they're defendingthemselves from like a secular
world and so they're like okay,let's expend all of our time and
energy and finance into you.
Know, like whenever we had oursenator to synodality
questionnaire right here intexas, all of the questions were
about how can we be moreinclusive to minorities and
women.

Speaker 3 (01:57:40):
Yeah, that was it.
How about us?
How about your?
How about your people?

Speaker 1 (01:57:43):
yeah, I think on the ground level it really was like
a lot of concern, I think, likethe people themselves were like
we're worried about our Latinmass, we're worried about our
young people, but I don't think.
I think they just ignored allthat stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:57:55):
But I mean even just for.
I mean this is the insane thing.
It's like America has got tothe point where it's like its
own founding stock are just likethese weird ostracized.

Speaker 1 (01:58:07):
You're right about like the synod.
Specifically, it was like they,they, they made that synod,
making it like they were.
They wanted to listen to youngpeople.
They did not listen to youngpeople whatsoever.
They listened to the LGBTgroups.
They listened to the.
They listened to theprogressive messages from their
age.
Yeah, they, that's what it was.

(01:58:29):
It was like the youth in theirage were concerned about things.

Speaker 3 (01:58:31):
The youth in our age don't give a crap about this
stuff like yeah, that'ssomething that ick said, which
is why I just love him so much.
He's like he looked at theother cardinals and he's like
stop talking about woman'sordination.
Nobody's cared about woman'sordination for 70 years.
This was like a 1960sdiscussion.
Nobody in the church caresabout this.

(01:58:53):
They want to come here, theywant to pray, they want to, you
know, learn.
That's what they want.
They don't care about woman'sordination.
They don't care about all crazy.
What do you guys talk?
He's like looking at his fellowbishops.
He's like this is madness, ismadness.
Why are you guys bringing thisup over and over again?
This is just spiritually dead.
This is not fruitful at all forpeople.

Speaker 1 (01:59:14):
Yeah, they're going to lose, Dude.
It's why so many young guys aregoing to orthodoxy.
Man, it's like one of thesaddest freaking things I really
.
Oh God, please, man, please,let this freaking conclave do
something of value.
Like they are still talkingabout the revolution from the
sixties.
These guys, it's so nuts.

(01:59:34):
Nobody, nobody young, gives acrap about this stuff anymore.
Like I saw an article today,like they're canceling pride
events all over and it's like,yeah, the gays could have been
happy if they just stopped thegay marriage, but they had to go
and cut kids peckers off andnow everybody turns on them and
nobody wants anything to do withthis.
But the younger generation doesnot care about that, except for

(01:59:57):
the brainwashed ones who are,you know, they fell full I'm
sure those people are going tomass every sunday.

Speaker 2 (02:00:07):
I only know, I only know one young catholic who's
interested in trans issues andthey happen to be a practicing
homosexual.
But like that, that's literally.
That's literally it.
Look at what young men aretalking about right now.
A lot of it's based, a lot ofit's kind of going a little far
right, so they need to betempered by grace.
But it's like the way I keeptelling my parents all the time

(02:00:28):
the wave that is coming into USpolitics, the older generation,
is just not ready to a young guylike I've had candid
conversations with youngpoliticians who aren't even like
really in our spheres there'snot.

Speaker 3 (02:00:51):
They're not Catholic.
And you talk to them and I'mlike having genuine
conversations about them, aboutlike blasphemy laws,
anti-isotomy laws, likeanti-adultery laws, and I have a
candid conversation with themand they're like, oh yeah, I see
, even, even if they don'tentirely end up agreeing with me
, I'm like, oh yeah, I see thatperspective, like I think we, we
should be able to have moreconversations about this.

(02:01:12):
I think we should tolerate thiswithin our movement.
If I talk to anybody over theage of 40, they would think I'm
crazy, they would think I'm likeHitler If I, if I bring up
these things.

Speaker 1 (02:01:27):
Dude, I'm telling you , I try to talk about it with
even I tried talking about myfather last time but like it's
the older generation, they justthey're not ready for a lot of
these conversations.
They're just going to get leftbehind, you know, and it's
people I like too.
Like that's why I brought it up, because I was like very irked
by Eric Sammons saying thatabout Candace Owens.
And it's like you, because,yeah, candace gets a little

(02:01:48):
nutty sometimes.
Yeah, like don't just saysomeone's a nut job because of
something, like get into whythey're thinking that, they,
they think that and like theybrush off catholics who are like
, uh, you know the evolutionthing doesn't?
You know I'm not buying it andthey write them off as as
fundamentalists.
We got rid of thisfundamentalism with our
catholicism.
You know I'm not buying it.
And they write them off as asfundamentalists.
We got rid of thisfundamentalism with our

(02:02:08):
catholicism.
You know, the council saved usfrom all that ancient stuff.
But it's like, yeah, youngpeople are seeing, I hope, like
it's just a dead end to even godown that road, like it's just I
don't know I well like what?

Speaker 2 (02:02:22):
what future does it promise me?
It's like I'm single right andit's like, oh, what are your
dreams, nick?
I hope to one day to be able tobuy a house Like that is like
the zenith right there.
And the fact that that seemslike a distant reality, that
could not be, is quite telling.

(02:02:44):
And I'm not the only one.
There's literally millions andmillions and millions of young
men in america and in westerneurope who are in the same
situation.
So this is why it genuinelywill be interesting when I'm an
old man to like look back andsay, okay, like, was it legit,
gen z, by god's grace, that likesaved western europe and
america in Europe and America.

Speaker 3 (02:03:03):
It's a sort of question as well as like we are
in such a providential and Ithink about this a lot it's like
we have to become men ofprovidence, because when you
have times like this, you haveto take advantage of it.
You know, we have people whoare willing, people who are able
.
Like are you?

(02:03:24):
Other people are not steppingup.
You know, are you going to be aman of providence and to be
able to take this energy and beable to cultivate it for the
spreading of Christ's message onearth?
Are you going to be able to doCatholic action in any time
period that you've been given?
Because the guys 30, 40, 50years ago, who were holding down

(02:03:46):
the fort, those people, theydidn't have a chance of a sort
of immediate victory.
They didn't have the people,they didn't have the energy For
them.
It was like keeping the coals.
Now we got like a pile oftinder right there and are you
going to be the type of personto take the coals that have been
passed down to you and put iton the pile of tinder and

(02:04:06):
actually get the fire going?
Are you going to be that typeof person or are you going to be
a coward.
Are you going to be the type ofperson who are going to try to
stand back and keep the statusquo and to moderate it, to give
quarter to the world?
Are you going to be that typeof person and I think for a lot
of people in our age group, I'veseen the type of people who

(02:04:28):
stand up.
I've seen those people and allthey get is criticism.
All they get is paul, said nickneeds to date a pastor's
daughter and take her on a13-hour cross-country drive to
convert no, no you cannot dothis nick.
You know what the moral isabout driving with women.
You know you cannot do thisnick.
You know what the moralists sayabout driving with women.
You know you cannot driveexcessively with women.

Speaker 2 (02:04:49):
That's company keeping nick, you cannot I know
I fully agree, plus, the fact isis that if I get sleepy she'd
have to drive and then I'dprobably never wake up.
So that's suicide.

Speaker 1 (02:04:58):
You can't do that um, somebody, somebody said so it's
the church's fault that I can'tfind a girlfriend.
No, but it actually kind of isin a way, because the church is
focused on all these stupidissues that don't matter instead
of cultivating communities atthe parish level, where you
should be able to meet yourfuture wife at your parish, but
because they're not attractingyoung men and young women and

(02:05:18):
they're catering to the boomerson the average parish level,
that's part of the issue.

Speaker 3 (02:05:23):
I think you have to get an e-girl, Nick.

Speaker 2 (02:05:30):
You parish level, that's part of the issue.

Speaker 3 (02:05:31):
I think, yeah, you have to get an e-girl nick.

Speaker 2 (02:05:32):
You got to convert an e-girl.
So true, so true.
I I might have found someonethe other day.

Speaker 1 (02:05:34):
Actually, I'm not gonna lie I might have found
someone, but I'll, uh, I'll tellyou guys after the show.
I think, uh, you guys all needto go and hit one of those
steubenville friday night streetfairs and just take a novus
auto check and make her trad.

Speaker 2 (02:05:48):
That's the only way.
There's no women at the Latin.

Speaker 1 (02:05:53):
That's what you're talking about the only women who
are married and have 10children.
Alright, we're going to have towrap this.
I've got to get up in themorning, dude.
This was a fun show man.
Yeah, christian, I always lovehaving you on.
We'll do more of these as theconclave approaches.
Definitely once we see whitesmoke, we gotta, we gotta do
another.

Speaker 3 (02:06:10):
yeah I'm telling you, I'm, I'm already planning for
once the white smoke goes.
I've told my editor I'm likeI'll have, you know, like three
white monsters in the in thefridge, immediately once the I,
I will have my celebratory meal,I'll sing the te deum, but once
, once the white smoke comes up,the work begins.

Speaker 1 (02:06:30):
You know I need to I'm gonna take all that if I see
white smoke, I'm gonna takethat next day off and I'm going
to try and jump on otherpeople's shows.
I'm gonna.
I wanna, I did this is I'll be,I'll be, you'll.

Speaker 3 (02:06:43):
I'll have like an hour and a half video already
prepared by the time you wake up.

Speaker 1 (02:06:47):
All right, let's do it.
Yeah, guys, this is a fun timeto be Catholic man.
This is an exciting time.
We got something happening onthe horizon.
We will see as it comes closer.
I don't know what we're doingThursday night yet, so we will
see all of you guys then.
This was fun, all right.
You guys want to promoteanything?
Well, everybody's probablywatching on Christian's channel.

Speaker 3 (02:07:07):
Go subscribe to.
I shut it off.
I am not a turncoat.
I forced everyone to get locals.

Speaker 1 (02:07:12):
Look at you, good man .

Speaker 2 (02:07:15):
All right, the only thing you guys already probably
know, but I'm just doing mymanualist series right now over.
We're starting on Thursday,yeah, yeah, starting ascetical
and mystical theology.
So people are wanting to figureout how to uh pursue some of
the stuff we've actually beentalking about in here.
Definitely go and check thatout and uh, yeah, hopefully
we'll actually uh, christian,I'll do a day revelazioni series

(02:07:36):
with his friend ethan, becausethat that actually be pretty fun
.
That would be fun yeah, we need.

Speaker 1 (02:07:42):
we need our Catholic nerds.
You guys got a nerd out for therest of us, so um yeah, for me
answers.

Speaker 3 (02:07:50):
You know that's my, that's my YouTube.
Yeah, if anybody's interestedin the conclave stuff, I they
throw us a curveball and it'ssomebody I don't know anything
about and that'll be a roughnight.
But yeah, keep tabs.

(02:08:12):
I also have been doing a lot ofresearch on and I want to talk
about this next time once we getcloser to the conclave about
some of the traditionalspiritual practices during and
immediately before the conclave,like the type of prayers that
are suggested.
Other types of spiritualpractices during and meeting the
conclave, like the type ofprayers that are suggested.
Other types of spiritualpractices, so you can
spiritually unite yourself withHoly Mother Church as she goes
through a very rough period.

(02:08:34):
I think it's going to be arough conclave.

Speaker 1 (02:08:36):
I do too.
Also, I forgot I have BishopStrickland coming on.
Really, do you?
Yeah, I don't know what day yet, but Bishop Strickland, I
haven't even announced that.

Speaker 2 (02:08:45):
And I have to bust out the tie For the second time.

Speaker 1 (02:08:50):
Those of you on Locals, you get a little sneak
peek.
We will be having BishopStrickland on and Father Charles
Murr.
Also, I might want to get intothe mysterious Death of John
Paul.
I with him.
Alright, interesting.
Alright, guys.
We'll see you guys next time.
I'm ending this thing.
Let's see.

(02:09:14):
Thank you.

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