Rome as the Eternal City with Joshua Charles

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
that was bigger for me as the george floyd summer
that's when it started to becomeso you conventionally described
as racist I guess would be thebest way of putting it like,
obviously I don't hate blackpeople, but most people describe
me as as racist.
I mean I, I definitely agreewith christian whoa all right.
No wonder that was how you guyswere gonna do your garbage that

(00:32):
is.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
That is wild.
Josh, you agree with wagner we?
Uh we sorry guys, we get likethese submissions.
We don't have to do themsometimes.
Uh-oh, we're having troublestreaming somewhere Rob Locals.
Locals is having a hard time.
That's not good.
See, if you can fix that, Can'tfix it, Josh.

(00:56):
It's been a while since we hadyou on.
For anybody that doesn't know,Joshua Charles, I can't imagine
that.
You're like, you're one of thepeople that watch our show.
You are the favorite, like abreakout uh side character or
like you know.
You like our Frazier to cheers,Like people, really people's
honor.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Well, everybody knows I discovered you so well you
discovered the earth is round,anthony, so you know he's not
sure about that one, but heknows you discovered the speed
of light.
You discovered the power of theatom.
You know I did discover.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
We never went to the moon, I'll say that.
But um, uh, all joking aside,this was your first papal
election as a catholic.
How did uh?
How did you feel, witnessingall eyes on rome as a catholic
for the first time?

Speaker 1 (01:46):
it was fun.
It's a little scary, given someof the candidates on uh on
offer, but, um, no, it was veryexciting and uh, I, um I'm very,
uh, cautiously optimistic aboutpope leo right now, so we'll
see.
We'll see what happens.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
It has.
It has been nice not waking upevery morning to a new headline
of.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Anna, anna.
Oh man, I've got Anna, saidHitchborn still beats me out.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
He's on here.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
I love Hitchborn.
Michael's a dear friend, so heis.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
He's hands down Brilliant, the favorite ab guest
, like people go uh yeah I needto do one together with the
stupid nfp.
Talk in the stupid chat I'mgonna block people I appreciate
it.
Anna, I appreciate it um, soyeah, it was because you came
all right.
So you came in in 2020, um, andwhich was like the height of

(02:44):
covid and it's the world.
No, you came in in 2020, whichwas like the height of COVID.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
No, I came in in 2019 .

Speaker 2 (02:51):
2019, right before everything hits the fan Summer
before yeah, but you came inEaster 2020, didn't you?

Speaker 1 (03:00):
No July 2019.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
So you had a normal year.
I should have 10.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Easter 2020.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Okay, because of the events of those years, yeah,
it's just been a wild couple ofyears.
So what have you guys beendoing over at Eternal
Christendom?

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Oh man, tons.
Sorry, I'm a little low energytoday.
Just a lot of work, but it'sgood, nothing to complain about,
it's just finished.
A lot of work, but it's good,nothing to complain about.
It's just, uh, just finished ahuge um upgrade of the website.
We've uh, you know we're not,we're not just a podcast.
You know, I always tell peopleto go to our website at
turnoffristiancom because if yougo to becoming Catholic, which
is at the very top of thehomepage, we've got about 1.3

(03:38):
million Um, thank you mode.
I appreciate it.
Yeah, I'll get to that in alittle bit, but, um, but I
appreciate that a lot.
Um, you know all the stuffbehind me.
I'm basically systematizing allthe receipts from the last
eight years of research, but Ialso had about another decade of
research and other greatsources before that.
What's a white claw?

(03:59):
Is that an energy?
what's a white claw no guys, yougotta understand something
about me before we go to more ineternal christian my entire
life.
There are so many pop culturethings that people ask me about.
I'm like what?

Speaker 3 (04:13):
is that?

Speaker 1 (04:13):
I just don't know seltzer, is it a beer?
That's what I thought that'swhat I thought.
I was pretty certain it wassomething alcoholic.
But is that, miss casey, likethe, the one whose husband does
amazing apologies yes, oh,that's great I, I love.
I hope we can meet at somepoint, um, but I know, I know
the roman, it was um.
I was a, a protestant ofmultiple varieties, christine,

(04:36):
um, but uh one thing he wasn'twas a drinker apparently no, no,
I've never been much of adrinker.
I um, um, there was.
There was one time I purposelygot drunk, which was my 21st,
purely out of curiosity I had.
I was like, what on earth arepeople so into this for?
And I'm not proud of it.
I brought it up in my firstconfession, but, um, but I, I

(04:59):
understood why people were intoit.
It certainly dulled myconscience, and nothing beyond
the drunkenness, of course,nothing sinful occurred, but I
could see how something easilysinful, something sinful, could
have easily occurred under undermy state of mind.
So I get why people do it, butI know that's what, not what Ms
Casey was advocating for.
But why does seltzer give youan energy boost, or is that what

(05:21):
it does?

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Well, I'm having a.
There's been a few times whereI was on the show.
I was a little tired and I hada white clone to put me right up
.
I think that's all right.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
All right well I can, I'll, I'll, uh, I'll act it out
.
A bit of it, no, but um, so ifyou're going to becoming
catholic, it's about 1.3 millionwords of written content free
and I literally have about 300000 words in draft.
So there's a lot more comingand it's basically what I was
doing with system.
It won't go into all the boringdetails, but with systematizing

(05:51):
absolutely everything with thenew format I've kind of settled
on.
So now you can go by churchfather, you can go by saint, by
whoever there's even foundingfathers on there or you can go
by topic, and there's a wholelot more coming.
But I've got topic archives onall the sacraments, every
sacrament, the papacy, our Lady.
There's even a topic archivethis one's going to be expanded

(06:11):
a lot but on Judas within andduring evil within the church.
Oh, nancy, do I have a textfrom you?
Anyway, but anyway.
So all the topic archive onabortion, on homosexual behavior
, on we even have one about theconversion of the empire.

(06:32):
There's going to be a whole lotmore out of that one.
There's one I'm puttingtogether about miracles,
miracles in the church.
So literally every singlemiracle story I am trying to
archive so people can read theseincredible stories I am trying
to archive so people can readthese incredible stories.
I mean Eucharistic miracles,miracles related to relics,
miracles related to, you know,demonic exorcisms and whatnot.
So fascinating, fascinatingstuff.

(06:53):
So I've got my format set andnow as I literally go, you know,
here's one I was working on StCyril of Alexandria.
I was going through somethingon this today, so I'll go
through this and I'll literallygo to the serial of Alexandria.
Author, quote, archive, put itin there.
That's my baseline text, andwhatever topic that quote
touches on, I'll put it in thetopic archive as well.

(07:13):
So this is what we're doing andthis is the just the first step.
We're telling people we have athree phase plan.
It's we call it a chapel,church, cathedral, and we are in
the chapel phase and that iswith building our five
masterpieces, as we call it.
The first one is the podcast.
The second one is audio.
Audio is we want all this stuff.

(07:33):
I mean all of it andprofessional, freely available
audio so people can listen to iton their phones all the time.
Some of it has been done, butnot the best quality, in my
opinion.
The third one, the thirdmasterpiece, is classic.
So we basically want to takethese books.
Look at this.
You see anything visuallyinteresting there?
No, and that's the case withvirtually all the classics.

(07:54):
And so we basically want tobeautify and explain all the
apologetic stuff in all thesegreat works.
Not only the fathers, but Plato, aristotle, the fathers, other
saints show how this is what theCatholic Church brought
together thanks to theassumption of human nature by
the Logos.
The fourth one is the EternalChristian Bible, an apologetics

(08:17):
Bible that I hope is like thebest ever created.
And the fifth one is we'll callthe Digital Cathedral, which
basically would integrate thephysical books, through QR codes
or whatever, with a wholedigital ecosystem where people
could access lectures, art,audio.
I'd like to get Hollywood levelfilmmakers to make trailers
about different saints in theirlives so that you know if you're

(08:37):
going to say Ignatius ofAntioch and his letters.
You can watch an incredibletrailer about his life and you
know being martyred in theColiseum, eaten by lions,
whatever it may be.
So it's a big, big vision, butthe first part, you know, you
got to start small.
So the first part is all thisBecoming Catholic research which
is going to be ongoingthroughout the entire life, of
Eternal Christendom, and thepodcast, and so and we call this

(08:59):
our chapel phase, and ourchapel phase will be complete
when we have basically coveredall of our costs through smaller
monthly patrons.
We know that, you know timesare expensive and so, but if we
have about a little bit lessthan 2000 Catholics who are
willing to become patrons for$10 a month, you know it's like
a coffee and a bagel uh, we'recovered.

(09:20):
We can do that partindefinitely and then, instead
of having, you know, largerpatrons cover some of those
costs, we have larger patronscover the next big masterpieces.
So that's what we are shootingfor over the next next few
months and whatnot.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Are there any plans for eternal Christendom to
expand to a network style ofother personalities?
We need something to replaceCatholic Angus.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Nothing concrete at the moment, but but I've been
approached by I won't mentionwho, and that's not a subtle
pointing at Anthony, but no, Ihave been approached by numerous
people about that possibilityat some point.
Frankly, this is why we needhelp finishing our chapel.

(10:01):
So if any of you are out there,again we're asking if you can
give more than $10, great.
But if you can give $10 a month, if about 2000 Catholics do
that, only 2000,.
There's plenty of Catholics outthere.
We are covered on our costs.
It takes a lot to do this.
We got me a full-time teammember, my sister, nancy, a
full-time team member.
We got a part-time podcastproducer who does all the
graphics.
He does a bunch of other stuff.

(10:22):
We have a graphic design guy.
There's legal stuff with anonprofit.
It's all tax deductible, by theway.
You know.
There's just a lot of things,but overall we're doing it for,
you know, I think roughly 300K ayear all of it, and if we have
that covered we can keep doingthis indefinitely, all this

(10:45):
stuff.
Catholic University of America.
They've given us permission toread from all of this on the
podcast without limitation.
That means, instead of you guyshaving to pay 45, 55 dollars,
uh, 60 dollars.
Thank you, rob, appreciate it.
That means instead of you guyshaving to pay 45 to 60 dollars
for each of these volumes.
Um, if we all can't, that'sfunny.
Don't do that, don't't do that,but, but, but, but, no, but,

(11:05):
instead of you guys having topay between forty, five and
sixty dollars, we're planning todo a whole catechesis with the
fathers I'm still mapping thatout a little bit but where I
literally go letter by letteryou know that has good stuff
Sermon by sermon, work by work,so that we can all dive into
this together and help peoplebecome, remain and deepen their
lives as catholics, hidden withchrist and god.

(11:26):
That's our goal.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
So I'm looking forward to like lecture series
because, yeah, um, I went backand I listened to and this is
why I wanted to talk about thistonight.
I went back and I watched yourepisode with dr dr alan
phimister.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Thank, you, igor appreciate it.
And just to be clear, he's onthe advisory board.
There there's a board ofdirectors which are those of us
like myself Actually, dr PeterKwasniewski is on there now and
a dear friend of mine and fellowconvert, jason Roberts.
He's not a well-known guy buthe's extremely adept at
strategic planning, leadershipprinciples and all that.
He does it professionally so.

(12:00):
But but Michael Knowles on theadvisory board, which is
basically a bunch of greatCatholics who are promoting and
endorsing what we're doing, andit will give us free advice and
criticism which we try to useand incorporate.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
So, yeah, the people Josh has named are the people
that will be voting him out in afive to four vote soon.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
The board of directors is the ones that do
the hostile takeovers and getyou.
Yeah, yeah, oh, trust me, we'retrying to be wise in how we do
all that.
The board of directors is theones that do the uh hostile
takeovers and get you.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah, yeah, oh, trust me, we're trying to be wise,
and and how we do all that weall anticipate the coup and the
ouster of joshua charles fromhis own don't ever let anthony
on that board.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
He will I'll be the one to organize it.
No, so listen.
So I went back and I listenedto your episode with dr alan
phimister and, um, it remindedme of when I was like first
digging back into my faith and Iwould listen to.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Oh, by the way, I'm sorry.
Can I answer one more thing?
I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
You got to turn the comments off.
One more thing, one more thing.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
No, one more thing.
We just announced that I can'tsay who, to respect his privacy,
but we have an FSSP pastor whowe made this decision a number
of months ago.
But we are under priestlyauthority and our board
unanimously voted hey, brian, Ithink that's the Brian, I think
I know.
I won't say where he lives, incase it's the one I know, but he

(13:18):
can say it if he wants.
But anyway, an FSSP pastor whoour board unanimously voted to
basically abide by hisdeterminations as far as
doctrine and morals, as far asour conduct as an apostle.
So this is a priest.
Let's just say I would die forthis priest, and he is.
He is one of the most virtuous,insightful and also prudent men

(13:42):
I've ever known in my life.
So we are under priestlyauthority.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
So was that inspired.
By recent events within.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
No, we did it months ago, but recent events made me
think it was important to makeit public.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
And I'd like to make public that we've looked for a
priest to do that for Anthony,but no one was willing to
volunteer for free.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
No one's willing.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
And the salaries they asked for were way too high.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
So I'm all.
He's got Salary or insurancepolicy.
No one wanted to be associatedwith our brand name.
So anyway.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Dr Alton, stop cutting me off, this is my show,
not yours.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
You know what?
I'm being Italian like you, I'mtaking after you.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
Oh, he just disappeared randomly.
I wonder, how that could havehappened.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
Wait, is that you Rob ?
Yes, rob boots me off the showrandomly.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
Alright, sorry.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Alright, so.
I went back and I watched theinterview with Dr Alan Phimister
about the Iron Scepter of theSon of man, and listening to it
kind of made me think back tothe times when I was listening
to, like the St Paul Centerlectures, when they would have
those priest conferences andyou'd have a day where you'd

(15:00):
have, like Brant Petrie would doa session, then you'd have John
Bergsman do a session, thenScott Hahn would do a session,
then you'd have John John Berg'swould do a session, then then
Scott Hahn would do a session,and I would always like learn
things that I'd never heard orwas taught before about
scripture, and when I went backand listened to it there was so
many like I've.
I've read a bunch of things onthe prophecy of Daniel and the

(15:24):
dream of nebuchadnezzar aboutthe, the idol in his dream, with
the head of gold, the chest ofsilver and the, the body of
bronze, and then the, the, thefeet of iron and clay, and I
never picked up on the fact thatthe feet are of iron and clay
signifies the split between eastand west and how that empire

(15:46):
would actually be divided partlyweak, partly strong yeah, and
that was one of those things.
And then the other thing was, um, the, the temple itself, one of
the most interesting things inthat episode.
The temple itself is made up ofthe holy of Holies, the inner
court, which is only for Jews,and then you had the outer court

(16:09):
, which is the court of theGentiles, which God wanted a
place for the Gentiles to comeand be able to worship him and
them.
Setting up the money tableswithin this outer court was in
like an inherent rejection ofthe idea that the, the promises,

(16:29):
could one day go out to theGentiles.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, but then they were cavorting with the Gentiles
to produce a certain coin.
Uh, you know that that thatsupposedly wouldn't violate, you
know, idolatry laws, but butdid so.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Just the fact that they were doing this, this act
of okay.
So the, the, the coin was ahalf shekel, right, they?
So anybody that wanted to buy alamb for the sacrifice of the
Passover, had to buy the lambwith a half shekel.
And that was because the the Iguess whoever was running the
temple I don't know if it wasthe Pharisees the Passover had
to buy the lamb with a halfshekel.
And that was because whoeverwas running the temple I don't

(17:08):
know if it was the Pharisees orwhatever they said, you couldn't
use a Roman coin because it hadCaesar's image on it to buy
your lamb for the sacrifice, soyou had to buy this half shekel.
Now the half shekel stops beingminted around the time when
Christ comes, being mintedaround the time when Christ

(17:32):
comes.
So they go to the temple, youknow, to Rome, and ask if they
can mint the half shekelthemselves, and Rome says no,
but you can use this mint, andon the half shekel there's an
image of Baal.
So they're telling the Jewsthey can't use the Roman coin
because it has Caesar's image onit, but they use the half
shekel that has Baal's image onit.
So they're still participatingin idolatry in that aspect and

(17:53):
the fact that this unholy act ishappening in the outer court of
the Gentiles.
Is this implicit rejection ofthe covenant going to the
Gentile nations?

Speaker 1 (18:08):
rejection of the covenant going to the gentile
nations.
Yeah, yep, it's like jonahmanifested in the temple.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Like I'm not going to go to the ninevites, so what I
thought we could talk abouttonight.
I saw joel barry tweetedrecently.
Actually, this is a year or twoago.
But he said no, no, this is.
This is a year or two ago, hesaid, said Western civilization
was invented by the Greeks andthe Jews while white Europeans
were still naked savages dancingaround campfires.
And I think part of the reasonpeople have this perception is

(18:35):
because so much of our Catholicapologetics are geared towards
answering Protestant biblicalarguments and not nearly enough
focused on the story of howChristianity spreads after the
Ascension and after the Book ofActs concludes.
It's almost like there's thisempty gap for 2000.

(18:57):
I mean, Catholics kind of havea little bit of an understanding
of church history, but thatperiod after the Book of Acts
closes is to me the mostexciting part of the story.
Even that period after the bookof Acts closes is to me the
most exciting part of the story,even though it's not in
scripture.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, I mean.
This is part of why the EternalChristum logo is what it is.
There's a cross in the middle,there are the Ten Commandments
with an elephant bat, the Hebrewfor the two tablets
representing revealed religion,and then there's a Parthenon
representing Athens, greece,philosophy, reason.
Then there's a Colosseumrepresenting Rome, law,
institutions, and it's meant toexemplify that there's this

(19:33):
essential narrative abouthistory that I think most of us
have lost.
You know, paul says inGalatians 4, 4, that Christ came
in the fullness of time andpart of that fullness of time
that the fathers describe.
What is that?
Rob's meters?
I can't see what it is what wasthat rob?

Speaker 2 (19:51):
someone's just asking what the painting was behind me
I thought it was relevant towhat josh was saying.
It's all right, you guys justlike putting the brakes on this
whole show I know, I know sorryso, um so, but it's meant to
tell that story because it's avery.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
It's a grand narrative that most Catholics
haven't been told about, butit's in the Fathers, For example
St Cyril and St Augustine.
If you go to our logo page, itkind of explains the logo.
Under the About Us section wehave these great quotes from
Augustine and Cyril, so a greatEastern and a great Western
father, both explaining thepresence of Latin, Greek and

(20:26):
Hebrew on above our Lord's headon the cross, in the basically
the exact same way.
So clearly, this was awidespread tradition.
It basically showed that Christ, by assuming human nature, was
assuming and, you know,basically he was bringing
together revealed wisdom,philosophy and reason and
practical wisdom, so representedby the Jews, the Greeks and the

(20:47):
Romans.
And you know, something thatthat Joel Berry quote left out
was Rome and how Godprovidentially used Rome to
prepare, you know, prepare theworld really for the arrival of
the Messiah.
So this is a this is a storyworld really for the arrival of
the Messiah.

(21:07):
So this is a, this is a story.
It's.
I think it's very, veryimportant to situate, you know,
the doctrinal assertions of theCatholic faith within this
narrative of the Catholic faith,within the story of the
Catholic faith.
I'm working on a podcastepisode.
It probably won't be for a fewweeks or maybe even months, but
in the intro section of um StAugustine's the Harmony of the
Gospels, book one, it's thisamazing laying out of this

(21:30):
narrative where he's showingboth Jews and pagans that the
Old Testament scriptures of thevery Jews who rejected Christ
portend the coming of a Messiahwho would destroy the heathen
gods through the Roman Empire.
And he's saying this ishappening all around you.
And and so it's just.
When I read it, it's just, it'sthrilling, it's like wow, this

(21:54):
is an amazing, amazing storythat we are part of, and it's
why a Catholic doesn't have toblush about taking wisdom from
Plato or Aristotle or plunderingthe Egyptians.
As St Augustine said, all truthis God's, truth is Christ's
truth, and to the extent it'strue, we have nothing to fear
from it.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
It's Catholic, the early church.
Right.
Right in the first fewcenturies before the Roman
Empire collapses, though,especially as the emperors
convert, right after Constantineconverts, there's this very
important idea that there is oneempire and this idea of

(22:36):
Christendom right, and it comesfrom Daniel's prophecy about the
stone kind of shattering thatimage and covering the world
like a mountain.
So this understanding thatthere's going to be this one
empire that covers the earth andit's going to be christened
them, and that gets shatteredright around the time of

(22:56):
Augustine, because the Romanempire essentially falls, right,
yeah Well, the Western empire,yeah, yeah, that's true, because
it continues on in the east foranother thousand years, right
you could argue yeah to the1400s or so.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Although it is interesting, you know, man, this
gets into so many topics.
I would have prepared a bitmore on this because there are
details that I don't always uh,I need to refresh myself on
because I'm constantly studyingnew things for new content.
But and, by the way,everybody's been asking me about
part two, I seriously getcomments on X, on Facebook, on
YouTube, about when are we doingpart two with Dr Phimister on

(23:34):
the Church of Rome.
It's happening.
He's been in the process of abig cross-country move, so I've
been waiting for him to kind ofget settled with his family.
For anybody who has sold ahouse I have not, but for
anybody who sold a house it canbe kind of a stressful time
involved process and then movinghalfway across the country.
So so we're almost there.
We're almost there, and in that, in that second part, we'll be

(23:54):
discussing more of theeschatological aspects.
But this goes into somethingwe've talked about often here
the restrainer of secondThessalonians 2.
It's this thing, that thismysterious thing that Paul
refers to, that holds back thecoming of Antichrist, and many
fathers thought this had somehowto do with Rome.
So it's very interesting.
There's many, many differentthreads to this, but I think the

(24:16):
one who synthesizes it all thebest is probably St Thomas
Aquinas.
In his commentary on2Thessalonians, he basically says
well, the Roman Empire is gone,so what is it talking about?
And he said it was obedience tothe Roman Church.
And you know, you can findother saints.
I found some stuff from St Brunoof Cologne, the founder of the
Carthusians.
I think he was just a littlebit before St Thomas.

(24:37):
He basically he didn't, hedidn't, I don't recall him.
I think he actually dididentify it with the restrainer,
but he basically said thatAntichrist couldn't come now,
meaning in the 1100s, because ifhe did, he'd find a bunch of
Christian princes who wereobedient to the Pope and that
would restrain his wickedness.
He said, but when he does come,that will no longer be the case

(24:59):
.
There will no longer be princessubmitted to the Pope,
christian princes submitted tothe Pope.
So and that that's also been aninteresting thing, because I've
always heard well, everybodythinks their time is the end
times and that's just not beentrue.
In my research there, there aretimes when different saints and
even fathers think that it'scloser to the end and they were
incorrect.
But many of the fathers andsaints that I've actually dived

(25:23):
into.
They don't seem to necessarilybelieve that.
Sometimes they'll just flat outsay it can't be now because X,
y, z hasn't happened yet.
And interestingly enough, thethings they say haven't happened
yet and therefore their timecouldn't be the end, have
arguably happened now.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
So it's very interesting.
Augustine's city of God isessentially that right Because
the Roman Empire is collapsing.
He's witnessing the collapse ofthe Roman Empire and a lot of
people are probably thinking theend of the world is coming.
But Augustine's like no,because you're seeing the
spreading of the altarthroughout the world and you're
seeing altars and the pagan godsare being crushed everywhere

(26:03):
and you're still seeing thegospel being spread around and
going forth upon the earth.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
So Daniel has this line I think it's in Daniel 7,
where it talks about the kingdombeing given to the saints of
the most high.
And so there's this idea thatSt Thomas presents that
basically this fourth kingdom,the Roman one, is assumed by the
fifth kingdom, the Messianickingdom.
And people need to rememberthat the basis for the solidity

(26:29):
of the church on earth, to theextent it is solid, is the
completely solid establishmentof the church triumphant in
heaven.
So Christ is reigning fromheaven right now in a visible
physical body.
That's what is happening.
So the kingdom is always andalways growing, and that kingdom
above will eventually come downand there will be a new heavens

(26:52):
and a new earth.
So while the fortunes of thechurch militant, I guess, which
we could think of as an outpostof the church triumphant, the
fortunes of the church militantwill get to a nadir, They'll be
the worst they've ever beenprior to and then during the
time of Antichrist.
But really that's just aprelude to the church triumphant

(27:13):
being completely and eternallytriumphant.
So it's like, as things appear,the worst here on earth,
they're actually getting closerand closer to the greatest
triumph of all time and then theend of time, you know, as we
enter into eternity.
So just something for people tokeep in mind.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah, one of the one of the few topics you, you and I
have talked about.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
I want to can I thank Megan really quick.
Megan, that is extremely kindof you.
$50 a month, that's very, verykind, thank you.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah, I just wanted to thank you for that.
Thank you for signing up for$50 a month for Eternal Crescent
.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
That was very awesome .

Speaker 1 (27:50):
Hey man, no, I'm kidding, that's the whole point.
Just a side note.
I've occasionally been accusedof being a grifter.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
I won't say how much money I made, but suffice to say
I make less than 30 of what Imade, uh, after coming out of
the white house as a non-profit.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
So it's uh, so it's, if I'm grifting and then it's a,
it's a very uh.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
I really don't your type of grifting I really don't
like when people say thatbecause, first off, you're
you're you're asking fordonations to the, to the
organization.
Like you don't get that money.
This is going towards the workthat you're doing.
You draw a salary and yoursalary is set and it's voted on
by a boy like there's nothing.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
You're and I don't vote on that, you know yeah,
that's the point.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
And also people that do this kind of work deserve to
be paid for it.
I mean, people enjoy watching.
You guys are all giving 18 amonth to netflix and HBO and all
this other garbage.
If you're sitting and enjoyingcontent for hours a week, why
would you not want to pay forthe people who are producing
good content?

Speaker 1 (29:05):
yeah, I agree, brian.
No, thank you.
And I get people's concerns,you know, you know professional
Catholics.
I get those concerns.
I think there are yeah, well,there are people out there who I
think have used and abusedbeing Catholic to make a profit.
And I'm not.
I'm not going to speculate, Iit's just it's out there on
occasion and I get that.
I'm not going to speculate,it's just it's out there on

(29:27):
occasion and I get that.
But you know, we're a nonprofit.
My salary is voted on by aboard.
I'm not involved in that votebecause it's a conflict of
interest, so I don't even set mysalary.
I'm in this for, if God wills,I'm in this for the rest of my
life.
I promised our lady when I wasProtestant but could see the
writing on the wall aboutbecoming Catholic.
I said if this is your son'schurch, I'll spend the rest of
my life defending it.
So this is my attempt to makegood on that promise.
And check out episode 16 of ourpodcast.

(29:49):
That's my interview with Nancy.
You guys also had a greatinterview with Nancy, my sister.
She's the other full-time teammember.
She's been extremely helpful onso many things.
She literally like will keepthe trains running, as they say,
so I can be as focused onresearch and writing and bigger
projects as possible.
So no, we're very, verythankful.
But yeah, I'm like 28% orsomething like that of what I

(30:12):
used to make you know at theWhite House.
But I mean, it's fine, I'm notin it for the money, I'm in it
to get souls into the church.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
I think what you're doing is different.
When I say professionalCatholic, when I bring that term
up, I'm talking about peoplewho are dependent upon clicks to
provide for their family.
So at that point you startgetting more and more
sensational just because yourincome is dependent upon it.

(30:38):
Then now your audience capturedand you're not saying what you
actually believe is true becauseyou're worried it might affect
your income, things like that.
Yeah, that that makes menervous for anybody in that
position.
I, yeah, sorry.
No, it just makes me nervousfor and it's not.
It's not because even I thinkwhat they're doing is is

(30:59):
necessarily always wrong.
It's that I I've seen peoplelose their faith a lot of people
and and what happens is youjust've seen people lose their
faith a lot of people, and, andwhat happens is you just go into
top, like the faith becomes ajob and I don't care what you do
for a living.
It gets tiresome, like baseballplayers.
Professional baseball playersget tired of going to practice,
and that will happen with thefaith.
If you're just.

(31:19):
This is your, the way youprovide your living.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
Well, look, I think at the end of the day, look,
we're in an impoverished time.
So, you know, the corporalworks of mercy are obviously
extremely important in helpingsupport the poor.
We see ourselves as supportingthe poor of spirit who've not
been handed on the faith, who'venot been handed on any of this
cultural heritage.
And to the extent people arewilling to support us again,
about 2000 Catholicsolics with10 a month, that gets us at

(31:45):
least for where we are now.
That means we can produce thispodcast and do this research and
add all this free writtencontent indefinitely
indefinitely, you know.
And we're also in california,which is, you know, partly our
fault, but it's just,providentially where god placed
us.
We, we ask father sarah, orwell, saint father sarah, for uh
, his prayers all the time, but,um, but uh, but yeah, it's, uh,

(32:07):
we're, we're in it to get soulsand, like we say, and yeah,
Coach P is trying to drag thelocals portion out of us on
YouTube, but no, I uh.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
Well, the reason I say that is because we I just
recently had Eric Sammons on umand we've had father Maudsley on
and we've had like I've I.
But I'm interested to talk toyou about that topic because I
want to hear what you think ofit from the story perspective.
And I think so many people missit from the story perspective.
They get too caught up in likethe politics of it, like eric

(32:38):
sammons was so caught up in usgiving money to israel.
I don't care about any of that,I don't care.
I don't care.
Care about usury in thisepisode.
I want to talk about the actualstory of what the older brother
plays in the Eschaton.
Essentially, I do want to getinto that, but I was going to
save that for the other side.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
One other comment.
Sorry, I kind of blanked on it.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
We can just do an AMA .

Speaker 1 (33:05):
If you want to just answer comments, we can.
No, no, it's what I was goingto say.
Just it was in response tosomething you said, because I
think you're totally right.
You know our youtube channel.
We're in like 31 episodes andwe're already above 16,000
subscribers.
I know for a fact we could groweven faster if I was constantly
doing reaction videos.
Yeah, but this is where it's.
It's actually a weight off ofmy shoulders because our brand,

(33:26):
such as it is, is very specific.
As I said earlier, we wantpeople to become, remain and
deepen their lives as Catholics,hidden with Christ and God.
And we have other parts aboutour mission and whatnot where
we're very clear.
It's about the great tradition,getting people in these sources
, even if it's miniature bits.
I'm hoping we can start a textservice where every day, there's
a daily quote from the fathersor a saint or a great

(33:48):
philosopher, whatever, frometernal Christendom.
This, this is the treasure.
So I have to sift through allof this and I do it gladly to
collect the gems, the gold, thesilver, whatever, and put it on
a platter for people for free.
That's just how I'm gifted,right, that's how I'm wired.
So, by me offering that gift,there can be other people who
maybe make a good living orwhatnot, who offer their gift
and by doing that we bothproduce more talents than God

(34:12):
gave us right for the kingdom,so that hopefully we can hear
well done and good.
Well done, good and faithfulservant.
But yeah, I think the worldwe're in now I mean heaven and
hell are real and I don't wantto have to stand before our Lord
and him ask me why were youconstantly just trying to
instigate people, provide, why,instead of focusing on the true,
the good and the beautiful,that's what we are trying to do.

(34:34):
So anyway, oh, rob, did you dothat?
No, he's trying to get off thescreen.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
He was feeling convicted by what you were
saying.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
No, I'm not.
I'm not accusing anybody.
I'm simply I'm simply saying uh, I I'm simply saying that's how
I feel about it and and there'snothing inherently wrong with
reaction videos.
That's not my point.
No, I don't think the reactionvideos are helpful reaction
listen, but but they get a sorryfinal sentence.
They reaction videos, makethings about personalities and
that's not what EternalChristenum is about.

(35:05):
Eternal Christenum is aboutthis Immense treasure that most
of us have no clue about, but ifwe did, it would help us become
, remain and deepen Our lives asCatholics, hidden with Christ
and God, which is eternalconsequences.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
What I'm kind of happy to see going on In the
Catholic world right now isthere's a shift away from
reaction Videos to the hierarchy, which I think is a very good
thing.
Like I, I'm happy to see thatit's no longer, and if they are
reaction videos, they'repositive reaction videos.
I'm glad it's not, uh, the, thechurch is collapsing, all that

(35:37):
kind of stuff, rob and I.
The reaction videos we're doingnow are just if I see something
that I think will lead to agood conversation.
It's not even necessarilychurch related.
Um, that's, that's what I'llkind of react to, just because I
want to give people, uh, likewhat's happening from a catholic
perspective, like if we diddiscuss the joel berry situation
, I do think there's a placewhere people absolutely see,

(36:00):
we'll see joel berry make acomment like that the christ in
Gaza aren't really Christianbecause they support Hamas.
For a guy in the comfort of hishome in America, making
millions of dollars to criticizepeople living under a horrific
situation like that and say theyaren't Christiansians because

(36:23):
they don't, they're not zionistsessentially, yeah, like that's
actually what they're, what hisposition is they're not zionists
, so they're not christians.
Um, I do think people need tohear a proper understanding of
what is going on with that.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
I agree with that.
I agree with that, yeah, andthank you, tennessee too.
That's very sweet of you.
Thank you very much um a onemillion a month donation man
mediocre, I need to get thismediocre historian guy to for
over for coffee or something.
So no, and honestly, these youguys should cite these.
You don't have to cite eternalchristian and we give you the

(37:00):
footnotes if you guys are doinga show on abortion or
homosexuality.
There's things about therebuilding of the temple.
There's stuff about theconversion of the Jews.
There's going to be stuff morethings related to the Zionist
question and whatnot, from thefathers and whatnot.
This is meant to be a resourcefor everybody.
We don't need to get credit.
We're just doing the work ofgetting it all in one place and

(37:21):
you'll see at the top of likeevery one, it says updated july,
whatever I, you know we'reupdating these all the time, you
know.
So it's meant to be a resourcefor other apologists, other
evangelists, you know otherother priests, you know bishops,
whatever.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
So there's a.
There's a couple ofconversations you and I have had
that have sparked like thoughtsin my head, where I remember
you were talking about therelics of the saints and how the
pagan rulers, when they sawthat they were so appalled by

(37:55):
the idea of us having relics ofthe saints around and the things
that they accused us of.
And hearing Protestants argueagainst relics and stuff is what
made me start thinking deeperabout OK, what is the idea of a
patron saint?
And patron saints are actuallywhat you?

(38:18):
They would get rid of.
The principality that was inthat area would get rid of the
principality that was in thatarea.
So if you had a pagan God thatwas worshipped in that area, now
all of a sudden the newprincipality becomes that patron
saint.
So every city would have apatron saint and the spirit of
that saint would then become thespirit that ruled the city.
And what you're actually lovingin that saint is Christ.

(38:44):
So every saint is actuallyshowing a different personality,
trait or something about Christthat you see in that saint.
That's why all the saints aredifferent.
They do all reflect Christ insome unique way, but not exactly
like Christ, because Christ hasthe fullness of it.
But each saint has this, so acity could have the spirit of a
saint to it and there would bethese local customs that would

(39:06):
develop and to a modern personlooking at that, they think
that's alien to them.
But it's one of those thingsthat clicked in my head that I'd
never heard explained onCatholic Answers or anything
like that.
It actually came about throughconversations with you.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Well, that's what's been so cool about reading the
Fathers.
There's all these incrediblestories.
So there's one that I plan todo an episode about, where,
basically, it's relayed byseveral fathers, but
particularly St John Chrysostom,the relics of St Babilus, which
was in the late 200s, so beforethe conversion of constantine,
but not not too long before.

(39:41):
And so then julian the apostate, who is raised catholic, or you
know, he may have an arian, butor quasi-arian, but anyway he
was raised christian.
And then he becomes emperor in360 or 361.
He, uh, he apostatizes.
And he not only apostatizes, hetries to revive paganism.
So he opens up the pagantemples, brings the pagan priest

(40:03):
back, whatever.
So he goes to an oracle ofapollo ie, a demon.
Um, you know a medium for ademon, uh, I, it's not the one
in um delphi in greece, it's, uh, it's, I think it's in modern
syria or turkey, like right onthe border there.
I'm forgetting exactly where itwas, but somewhere there.
So he goes to consult thisoracle.

(40:25):
But the oracle you know it's ademon tells him oh well, there's
these bodies nearby that yougot to get out of the way.
Uh, because, uh, because youknow, like I can't talk, I can't
reveal anything to you ifthey're there and uh, so they
try to move the bodies, but thenlightning strikes the, the
oracle's temple, and it'sdestroyed, and that was the end
of that.
Well, what was he removing the?

Speaker 3 (40:47):
relic of death fabulous.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
You know the relics of saint babelus.
The demon couldn't do anythingbecause the relics were there
and there's, there's so many ofthese stories and I, as a
protestant, thought and yetjulian the Apostate,
specifically, he calledChristians Galileans, he
specifically attacked thisveneration for relics.
And so it's like why do thepagan?

(41:11):
There are other pagans who didthe same thing why do the pagans
attack something that I wasalways told as a Protestant was
consummately pagan and it's thechurch that's always doing it?
So my Protestant narrativecollapsed and I found out a
bunch of frankly kick-assstories from our ancestors about
fighting the demonic.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
So yeah, yeah, and there's a way that, look, if you
get into a conversation with aProtestant who's trying to throw
Bible verses at you, I guessyou do need to know how to
combat those through scriptureand stuff.
But explaining to even seeingum practices that all people,
like secular people do, right um, and especially protestant

(41:54):
people seeing they'll.
They'll mock us for havingsacramentals, things like that.
And we were watching a video ofa guy at a baseball game at
wrrigley Field scooping the dirtup at Wrigley Field to take
home with him and it just dawnedon me that's a sacramental.
This guy's taking a sacramentalof his secular religion and

(42:14):
he'll probably go home and be aProtestant and tell us that
we're crazy for having holywater.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
But it's the same thing.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
This religious instinct is in all of us, and
Protestants have it too.
They just replaced it onbecause their understanding of
grace and nature is sodisordered that they don't see
how grace perfects nature andthat these things are very
important tim gordon, if youthink about it, the uh practice

(42:41):
of uh keeping a cremated lovedone in an urn on your, like your
table.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
I mean, you're just keeping because you think
everyone's a saint.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
You know, you're just keeping a relic of a family
saint on your table and the samepeople that will tell you that,
uh, the you know, mary, can'thear your prayers.
When their mother passes, thefirst thing they'll do is Mom
was smiling down on me fromheaven.
It's just instinctual for all ofus to have that.
It's intuitive and I think thechurch early on had that

(43:13):
intuition and saw it.
And then God granted theselittle miracles.
When we would keep the relicsof the saints around and when
people would pray a novena to asaint, God would grant these
miracles so that you woulddevelop a devotion to that saint
.
And that's actually how theunderstanding of the communion
of saints develops through thecenturies.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
KB said Anthony is more insightful than Rob gives
him credit for.
You know, anthony, this is theonly thing I'm going to say nice
publicly for six months.
I actually agree with KB.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
So, josh, I have my moments.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
It's not no, they're, they're I agree with rob that
anthony can be quite ridiculouson occasion.
But no, I I do think anthonydoes have some pretty darn good
insights sometimes and it's, andI appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
So it's look, you have to do the humor and the
goofy stuff at times, becausethat's kind of what we try to do
on this show.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
There are times I need a slander the sins of the
tongue.

Speaker 3 (44:11):
Yeah, I got to do that.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
But there are times for deeper discussion where I do
like having conversations withpeople who are a little level
smarter than me, and then havingthat conversation with them
will give me a little bit of aan insight into something and
it's and it's something that Iget to work out on air and I
find I find those conversationswould be my favorite.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Absolutely.
Yeah, no, so I I give youcredit, Anthony.
Oh, I don't need your credit.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
I just want the audience to be entertained.
I know how.
I think is it in Matthew 24,where Jesus tells the apostles
that they will sit on thronesjudging the 12 tribes of Israel.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
Apocalypse, Matthew 12, you said I thought it was
Matthew 24 at the destruction ofthe temple?

Speaker 2 (44:58):
No, I believe it's Matthew 24.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
I'm sorry, matthew 12 .
Excuse me, matthew 12.
Matthew 12.
I thought it was when he wasprophesying the destruction of
the temple.
I can look it up, matthew 12.
Matthew 12.
I thought.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
I have an article about this.
I can look it up.
Yeah, look it up, because the Isaw that as the same thing as
patron saints being theprincipalities governing these,
like you will sit in thrones asprincipal.
And when St Paul talks about weare not up against flesh and
blood, but principalities andpowers, yeah, about we are not

(45:26):
up against flesh and blood, butprincipalities and powers, yeah,
the saints are the, the it'sthe church spreading on earth
that is defeating thoseprincipalities and powers, and
it kind of goes into therestrainer uh, uh thesis.
You, you talked about with usthat, that the first and second
time you came on where, as, asthe, as the spirit of god's,
matthew 19 we were both lukematthew 19, luke 22 and then

(45:47):
apocalypse 20.
Yeah, okay so as as the spiritof, as god's spirit is covering
the earth and the church, isspreading and they are
developing these devotions tothe saints, they become these
principalities and the and thedevil is then restrained for a
period and it seems like we'rein a time where the restraints

(46:08):
are being lifted off, the devilyeah, I think Apocalypse 20
provides the grand narrative ofhistory post-incarnation.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
So verses 1 through 3 describe the angel of God and I
think it's Christ, and manyfathers interpret it as Christ,
or describe the angel of God andI think it's Christ, and many
fathers interpret it as Christ.
They don't necessarilyinterpret that verse in
Apocalypse 20 as Christ per se,although many do.
Several do.
They describe Christ in otherplaces, you know, binding the
strong man and binding thedragon.

(46:39):
They describe it similarly inother commentary.
So 1 through 3 is that thisgreat dragon is bound and he's
thrown into a pit, not to hell,thrown into a pit.
And then at verse four it saysthrones were set up.
That's awesome, ethan, yeah,that's awesome.
But in verse 4, it talks aboutthrones being set up for those

(47:01):
to whom judgment was committed,so that's the bishops, that's
the apostles and theirsuccessors, and that's verses 4
through 6, I think.
Then at verse 7, it talks aboutthe dragon being released for a
brief time to bring Gog andMagog against the city of God,
so the church and then, and thenChrist returns and he is judged

(47:22):
and cast into hell.
So I, if somebody put a gun tomy head and I had to pick, I'd
say we're at about verse seven,you know, or somewhere right at
the edge of verse six, gettinginto seven, yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
So that could be wrong.
It's not black pilling, okay.
So every time I try to get intotalking about this stuff, I
always have rob knocking me downand telling me oh, nothing,
ever happens.

Speaker 3 (47:45):
I'm sorry, I find it and I need ryan thank you very,
very much.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
That's very kind of you somebody on with me that's
willing to to go kind of wheremy mind is going, because I see
all hell breaking loose aroundus.
I feel like I might be the onlyone.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Hey the Roman, I know you're probably joking and
there's some truth, but no, Imean I'll refer to what I said
earlier.
Let's say this is true.
Let's say we're in about verseseven, so we're getting.
You know, we're obviouslycloser to the end than when
Christ died, obviously.
But let's say that it's withinour lifetimes, which I do think
is a possibility for a multitudeof reasons.
I'm not going to set dates.

(48:26):
The church solemnly says weshouldn't do that, but.
But so Christ?
Christ says that no man knowsthe hour, but he also chastises
people for not knowing the signsof the time.
So there's got to be a healthymedium.
But if we are in that time,that means that the church is
literally at her absolutebiggest and is about to peak.
The end times come when all theelect have come in.

(48:48):
That's the point.
All the elect from the fourcorners of the earth have been
brought in.
That's why the restraint is nolonger necessary, because the
passion of the church, it dies,it resurrects.
Boom, it's all done, we win.
So it means we're closer to theultimate victory.
Actually.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
There's nothing to blackmail about.
Look at it this way, guys IfJosh is right, your monthly
donations to Eternal Christianwill not go as long as you think
they will.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
No, we're helping, no , no no, no.
If we're helping bring in thoselast elect into the church, you
know, by going into thetradition.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
So yeah, have you guys read the end of the.
I don't mean to ruin the storyon you guys, but you know we
kind of win in the end.
Let me give the roman.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Let me give the roman the.
Let me give the devil his due,not calling him the devil, but
but um, he's, he's he's beingsarcastic, by the way, like what
he's.
I know he is, but no, but thisbut this point, it's not him
specifically, but this point,because I think I know what he
means and and and this.
I think those who make similarpoints, I think I know what they
mean because I've gone throughit myself.
You know, I'm an, I'm amid-level millennial.

(49:51):
Um, yeah, that's a, that's agood point.
Uh, who I King?
Deplorables.
I think that's a decent pointtoo, but I still think, yeah,
anyway, we'll go into that later.
You got ADD man, you're theworst.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
I'm trying to follow.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Then he reads the chat.
He gets so sick I'm normally-very focused Phone is off.
Nancy will tell you.
I'll tell her.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
I'm really focused on something.
When it's distracting, I'm likeit's better than Sam.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
When Sam reads our chat, he starts calling people
and talks about their mother.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
Sam Shamoon Sam.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
Shamoon.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Are the books?
No, they're definitely real.
Andy Mike Rust.
Definitely, they're definitelyreal.
Andy mike rust.
Yeah, they're definitely real.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Um, I forgot I totally am blanking on the point
I was making the end times wewere talking about and if we're
coming to the end of the story,um, people converting, people
converting all the gentilescoming in, I I was going to say
even the idea that the church isno longer really doing missions
like we did in times past, likethere's not really a missionary

(51:01):
church anymore.
To me, seeing all of the thingsaround us that we are even the
the rise of this weird um, likethe return of these weird sex

(51:22):
cults and things like that, Iknow what I was gonna say yeah,
okay.

Speaker 3 (51:25):
Yeah, I know I was trying to spring your mind to as
an american.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
As an american, you know, born in 1988, you know, I
grew up in the tail end ofreagan's presidency.
We're about to beat the Soviets, you know, supposedly at least,
we enter the unipolar momentwhere, you know, kind of like
after right after world war II,we are like the big dog bar none
.
Well, that's ending.
And so I think the spiritbehind the people who talk about

(51:50):
black pulling and whatnot isthat there are so many
assumptions about our countryand the direction of the world
that I had kind of growing upSome of that was just childhood
naivete that we all have, but Ithink a lot of it was just
genuine, like if I mean we'vetalked about this before like
stuff in the 90s, like shows andmovies.
They were just a lot moreoptimistic.
Right, Things are a lot darkernow, just in general.

(52:12):
So there's a part of me.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
That is the whole like dark and gritty.
You know way of making movieslike yeah happened in the 2000s,
right yeah, well, and I, Idon't think it.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Yeah, I think 9-11 yeah, 9-11 was a game changer in
this regard.
Yeah, and, and so, yeah, I, Ithink we are.
We are having to crucify our,um, our vision of what we
thought we could take forgranted.
I think that's drasticallychanged for most people.
I know it's drastically changedfor me.

(52:43):
I don't take the stock marketfor granted.
I don't take our currency forgranted.
You know, we inflated it byover 6 trillion in April 2020
under Biden oh, I'm sorry, notBiden, somebody else, that's for
you know, um, but, um, you knowso.
So there's just a lot of thingsI don't take for granted, but
I'm so glad, in the midst ofthat, I've become Catholic

(53:04):
because our faith teaches.
I had this wonderful quote Iread from St Pope Gregory the
Great.
If I can read it to you guys, Iposted it on X earlier today
because it's related to this andhe talks about this a lot yeah,
here, it is Dearly beloved.
Let us follow the strict, roughway of our Redeemer.
Let us disregard all presentthings.

(53:25):
Whatever can pass away is worthnothing, and it is shameful to
love what is certain to perishquickly.
Let us not be overcome by loveof earthly things, nor inflated
by pride, nor torn apart byanger, nor defiled by
dissipation, nor devoured byenvy.
Our Redeemer, dearly beloved,died out of love for us.
Let us learn to conquerourselves out of love for him.

(53:47):
If we do it perfectly, we notonly escape impending
punishments, but are rewardedwith glory, in common with the
martyrs.
This is not a time ofpersecution, yet our peace also
has its martyrdom.
Even if we do not submit ournecks to the metal sword, still
we are putting to death thecarnal desires in our hearts
with a spiritual sword, that'shomily one on Matthew 12, 46 to

(54:11):
50.
So that's what our faithteaches, and so I'm having to
learn it.
All the time I've been talkingin all these interviews, like
there's new layers.
God is revealing to me all thetime where I need to be more
detached, more detached, moredetached, and have my mind more
focused on eternal things.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Well, for me.
I got caught up in the hopiumof this election early on when I
saw the assassination attempt.
I was like you know, and trumpwas talking about ending the war
in ukraine on day one and I gotcaught up a little bit in the
hopium and then I just had thisstark reality hit me and I said

(54:48):
this country is spending moneyon the most insane things.
There's absolutely no attemptto correct course whatsoever.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
The war is escalating can you put up michael jc doe
or do his comment.
I would say that we need.
I think that's exactly right.
Yeah, absolutely, that's 100correct and honestly, this is
honestly what nancy has helpedme do because, as much as
possible, because I I don't liketo be talking all the time.
I really I can talk a lotbecause i't like to be talking

(55:17):
all the time.
I really I can talk a lotbecause I'm frankly in this
stuff all the time.
So when I'm in an interview,like most of my days are very
quiet, um, but when I'm on theseinterviews, like a torrent of
whatever, so um, but Icompletely agree and that's why,
st John Anthony, you and I havetalked about St John a lot,

(55:39):
like St John and our lady andhow saint john is is, um, saint
john is mysteriously quiet whenhe knows what's about to happen
to our lord and he doesn't stopit very, very and I'm still
contemplating that.
You know, as our lord, you know, peter wants to be all active
and chop off ears and all thisstuff, and our lord rebukes him,
whereas who is told who the,who the betrayer is?
You know, our Lord tells him,apparently privately from the

(56:01):
passion narrative in John, buthe doesn't say who it is, he
doesn't try to stop it, hedoesn't do some campaign against
it.
So yeah, I think that sweetspot of wisdom is for us.
To somebody said, I think, cigarmode, that ultimately it's our
own end times, I completelyagree with that.
I would still say, being awareof the signs of the times, I

(56:24):
would say it's brought me agreat deal of peace.
Actually, I've never lived lifemore day to day than since
COVID, which I considerapocalyptic, and I it's.
I've actually found it easierto detach from earthly things,
not perfect, but easier to do sowith this sort of more
eschatological framework in mind, looking at the signs of the

(56:46):
times in light of what thefathers have taught.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
So, for what it's worth, yeah, I just see the
trajectory.
We're on with the way they'respending money, with the way
that the wars are.
We're on with the way they'respending money, with the way
that the wars are escalating,with the tensions between Russia
and Ukraine, with the tensionswith China, with everything.
Everything's just escalating.
With all this crap going onover in the Middle East.
There's no attempt to actuallycorrect course, so I'm just

(57:11):
watching things amp up and ampup.
Plus, I have this whole idea ofwhat happened on the Trump's
first term with COVID, and I'mkind of just waiting for the
next thing that they're going todrop on us and tell us it's an
emergency and it's going to beanother thing that you have to
do if you want to be able toparticipate in society, and it

(57:31):
just felt like all of that stuffthat happened in 2020 was just
a foreshadow of something bigthat's on the horizon and I
don't see any attempt to stopany of it.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
there's no there's no attempt.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
There's no attempt to to repent at all.
It's the same thing that I saidwith the, with the, with the
priest summit, uh, with the sexsummit in rome under francis,
when he called all the bishopsafter the mccarrick scandals.
If those men had gone to romeand all Sackloth and Ash, and
begged God's forgiveness for thesins they committed, the whole

(58:02):
world would have changed.
But that's not happeninganywhere.
It's not happening in thechurch, it's not happening
outside of the church.
So there's no way any of thisgets fixed without that
happening, unless God chastisesus and does a correct correction
.
I don't I.
That has to come.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
Well, look, I've mentioned it often but for maybe
some of the audience who don'tknow, the fathers are unanimous
about number a number of things,but one particular thing
related to antichrist.
And what the fathers areunanimous about is binding per
session four of the council ofTrent and the creed issued by
Pope Pius.
The fourth, which was my oathupon coming into the Catholic
Church.
Thank you, FSSB.

(58:39):
The Fathers are unanimous thatAntichrist will bring the public
sacrifice of the Mass to an endfor three and a half years,
basically worldwide.
That happened not for three anda half years, but that happened
in 2020.
It is the single closest wehave ever been in the history of
the world to what Antichristhimself will do, bar none.
So people can interpret thathowever they want.

(59:03):
I interpret it as apocalyptic.
I don't think it's anythingless than apocalyptic, and some
people's red flag came withEpstein, Mine came in 2020.
So I'll leave it at that.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
Epstein is just, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
Now they're trying to move on to obama.
It's, it's all.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
It's all just a show, like the whole as soon as that
thing happens and they just wantto keep us divided.
So what they do is now they'rebringing up the stuff from the
2016 election the Russia hoaxagain on giving us all stuff we
knew already and acting likeit's new.
And Tulsi Gabbard's coming outand telling us and she's acting
like this is this is rivetinginformation.
We knew all of this already.

(59:49):
There's nothing new.
Nobody's going to get arrested.
It's just.
It's a way to keep up thedialectic of left versus right
or republican versus democrat.
Everything is a show.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
It's all nonsense which is very occultic.
Uh, rob, if you're able, areyou able to pull up the war of
the antichrist with the churchand christian civilization from
tan, the book I edited like theactual contents of the book the
cut into the cover of it, likethe amazon picture or something
like that.
People need to read this.
I think it's chapter like 17 orsomething.
I could be wrong.
It's the late teens, I think,but it's something like that.

(01:00:23):
It's the called theintellectual and the war party
and masonry, and it basicallysays that part of the standard
operating.
This was written in 1885, by theway, and this book was endorsed
by pope leo the 13th.
I read it during the lockdownsin 2020.
I found it and I was reading it.
I was like, oh my gosh, this isstunningly prophetic.
1885, I found an old Catholicmagazine article from 1885 or

(01:00:47):
six that said the pontiffendorsed the work and paid for
its translation several thousandcopies into Italian.
It was written by MonsignorGeorge Dillon, but he basically
said it was standard operatingprocedure for occult societies
to try to gain control of bothsides and play them against each
other.
Yeah, so, um, if people havenot gotten this book, check it

(01:01:08):
out.
Um, honestly, the royalties areabs are minuscule, and so I'm
not.
I, I'm just it.
It's.
It's just oddly comforting tosee that this has been foreseen
for so long, whether it'swhether it's the end of times or
just an end of our time, as myfriend Scott Hahn says, but the
thing is.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
The thing is the reason I think it's so important
to talk about the story of howChristianity spreads after the
ascension and how it kind of.
It's because you see that Godis the one who has his hand on
history the entire time and, nomatter what you think is
happening now, all things willwork for the good for those who
love God and he's going to useall of these horrific things

(01:01:48):
that are happening right now.
All will glorify him in the end.
So it looks like the church isimpotent at the moment and the
church is not doing anything atthe moment, but that impotence
will then be used to glorify Godin the end.
But it's why I kind of stoppedgetting riled up about the
papacy and all that stuff.

(01:02:09):
It's just everything we'reseeing is part of the story and
you just have to wait until itplays out and you'll understand
it.
In hindsight.
I understand that what my lifelooked like when I left the
sacraments.
So I had a period where I leftthe sacraments and how things

(01:02:30):
kind of devolved in my life,because once you fall into
mortal sin, the chasm betweenyou and God just gets greater
and greater.
And coming back to thesacraments, how much that
restored just sanity within mywhole family life, sanity in
every aspect of my life myrelationship with God, my
relationship with my wife, mychildren, everything.

(01:02:52):
So I don't really care aboutwhat Leoo's doing anymore.
I'm just like this is going toplay out and god will will
understand it in hindsight.
It's how all prophecy workswithout all things you never see
god's hand in the moment.
You just understand he had hishand in it in in hindsight.
So I don't get myself worked upabout the stuff in r anymore.

(01:03:14):
I kind of just accept that Godwill do something with it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
Yeah, I don't, I don't care, quote unquote in the
sense that I don't care unlessthe Pope has something to bind
me to as a Catholic.
You know formally, and that'sthe outlook of most Catholics
throughout most of history Imean even many church fathers
who spoke very strongly aboutthe papacy.
Most of the time they're justteaching their flocks that you
know there's not really going tohave much going on with.

(01:03:41):
Remind me, anthony, what youjust said in three months, ok,
yeah because I'll change mychair, because I go.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
I go back and forth on this stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
I'm not someone earlier.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
Oh, I know, I know it's been about three months
since he blackmailed last, sohe's right on schedule well, but
you know, I think the theinternet has brought many
wonderful things.
I mean, we're able to do thislive stream.
That's great.
One of the horrific things thatis brought I'm talking about
this more and more on differentpodcast interviews I do is, by

(01:04:09):
virtualizing, everything isdetached us from our concrete
duties, so it makes people gethave this false sense of urgency
that they have, like some, thatreally we should only have for
the things we have control over.
Right, I don't have controlover what's happening in Rome.
I don't have control overwhat's happening in DC.
I don't have control overanything in that.
Those are not, that's not partof my um, fickle and

(01:04:31):
inconsistent.
He's Italian, come on, um, comeon.
But but I don't have controlover these things.
I don't have a, I don't.
Jesus Christ will not ask mewhat did you do on these things
in the in anything but the mostcursory way.
I highly, highly doubt it, atleast, and so.
But in the meantime, I havepeople right in front of me.

(01:04:51):
I have family members right infront of me.
I have friends right in frontof me.
I have poor people right infront of me, homeless people
right in front of me, peoplestruggling with family breakdown
, drugs, you know, medicalissues, whatever.
Those are all right in front ofme and so many times, so many

(01:05:12):
of us are draining our energy,our time, our resources away
from that stuff.
But that's the stuff that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
Jesus Christ will ask us an answer for.
So we need to be very carefulabout that.
Yeah, this is and this is avery real situation um, worrying
about scandal for them, for themasses from from prelate and
messes from the prelates, etc.
Is the confusion I agree, forthose of us trying to bring
those close to us into thechurch and keeping those.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
That's what eternal christian is trying to do.
That's when, when we fill outthis quote archive, look up the
judas within quote archive.
It's very minuscule right now.
There's going to be a lot morein there soon.
I just I've just standardizedall this stuff, but that's what
it's meant to do, cause guesswhat, when you can read a bunch
of saints and church fatherstalking about how bad it's been
in their time that's part of whyI'm Catholic there's like a
certain threshold of knowledgewhich, once you pass it, it's

(01:05:51):
like okay, I get it.
The family has all sorts ofproblems, but it's the only one
that God has promised to protectforever and to keep, and
through infallibility God haspromised this is the way I'm
phrasing it more just, in kindof a more layman's way
Infallibility is God's promise.
Ooh, that's awesome.
Infallibility is God's promisethat, to be in his family, we

(01:06:13):
will never be required tobelieve a lie.
That's what infallibilitythat's, I think, another way and
a good way of expressing whatinfallibility is.
We, as Catholics, will never berequired to believe a lie, to
be Catholics in good standing,and so that's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
And in Daniel he says once the kingdom comes, its
sovereignty will not be given toanother people.
Correct?
Which means, as as messy asthings get, the kingdom will not
pass to another people, it willjust it and the gates of hell

(01:06:48):
will not prevail.
But it's gonna sure look likeit, and that's the whole point
of the promise, so that you looklike when jesus was killed.
Yeah, so your faith isn't shaken.
For those of you who trust God,it's going to get messy, and
Jesus warned us it will getmessy.
It's going to be like we, likethe apostles during the passion,

(01:07:08):
and they all run because theythink he can't possibly be the
Messiah.
You'll think it can't possiblybe the church look at all the
crap going on but God will useit for good in the end.
Now, um, all right, we're at anhour and seven, last question
have you seen common tholiness?

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
I think he means thoroughness and themes covered
in most instances of apocalypticvisions, uh, be they from
scripture, from privaterevelation.
I'm not 100 certain what hemeans, but um, common through
lines and themes covered throughlines.
I didn't see the r.
It was really small on myscreen.
Okay, through lines, have youseen?

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
common, through lines and penance, themes covered in
the most instances ofapocalyptic visions, be they
from do penance?
Yeah, get be more radical, andyou're right every time our lady
appears she tells us penance,penance, penance.
So um, I I do want all right,so we had Eric.

Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
Sammons on.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
Oh, you got a few.
All right, we'll do thequestions first and then we're
going to go to the other side.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
Oh, pathological lifter.
Oh sorry, we should go topathological lifter's question
next, not addressing the fact myfriend's Protestant was the
absolute first thing I shouldgive him to read from the church
fathers and his Protestant wasthe absolute first thing I
should give him to read from thechurch fathers.
The letters of St Ignatius ofAntioch, my patron saint,
particularly the letter to theSmyrnians however you pronounce
it, jimmy Akin's Father's noBest is a good one too, but

(01:08:34):
honestly, the quote archives oneternalchristiancom are now way
beyond what Jimmy has in hisbook and it's all for free.

Speaker 3 (01:08:37):
Yeah, I'm saying it's like a, and you don't have to
worry about aliens.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
Yeah, I love that book, I endorse it and I give it
.
I suggest it to everybody.
But if you don't want to spend$30, go to the Eternal
Christendom website.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
And we do have a theory on a few things about you
, of why you haven't been oncertain shows.
What me?
We'll talk about it on theother, yes, you, oh, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:09:02):
We have a theory.
I thought it was one thing.
There's no other side tonight.
Ant oh locals, no good.
Well, I mean I could make aentirely separate stream that
we'd have to it looks like it'sup and running.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
Just to be clear.
I don't give a.

Speaker 3 (01:09:15):
I don't.
It looks like it's up andrunning.

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
Just to be clear, I don't.
I don't give.
This is not up and running.
I don't give a damn about whatshows I'm on or not I this is
something that my I'm not gonna,I'm not gonna talk, I'm not
gonna talk about that on thisI'm not gonna mention it, but
they care about it more than Ido.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
Just to be all right, so there's no local show, so
we're just gonna do it here.
So okay, so we had eric salmonson recently.

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
There's five more questions go ahead, we can do
the show we're not leaving okay,fine, keep going I mean
whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
Whatever I get to them may as well go ahead.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
Uh, especially if that's the one you wanted to
talk about josh our attendingorigins of all the abuse of my
as a form of complicity.
Yeah, I mean.
Yeah, I think that things likethat are happening.
I I don't I it I talk about.
I've done multiple threads thatwhen Balenciaga happened, the
weird stuff that happened there,I've done multiple, multiple

(01:10:03):
threads.
I literally just said the otherday that when the Catholic
church was restraining sorceryis that what it was restraining
is now in power and multipletemporal powers in the world,
and that does involve witchcraftand sorcery, occultism and a
lot of that stuff involves childsacrifice, contraception,
abortion, undoubtedly.

(01:10:24):
Now who and what and to whatextent, I don't claim to know.
Frankly, I'd rather read theseguys and get resources to you
guys.
That's right.
Time is so limited guys.
Time is so, so limited.
I do believe there are peopledoing really, really wicked and
evil things with children.
I do believe that, but guesswhat?
I believe it.
So I'm moving on.
I'm going to combat it withthis stuff.
That's what I.
That's where I am spending mytime for the sake of my own soul

(01:10:48):
and everybody else's soul.
So, like, don't go down rabbitholes too much.
You do not have a duty to knowall the details related to these
things and, frankly, itprobably wouldn't do your soul
very good if you did know allthe details.

Speaker 3 (01:10:59):
So do you know of any church fathers who spoke about
St Mary Magdalene?

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
Oh, yeah, tons.
I don't remember them off thetop of my head but yeah, she
comes up a lot.
I was just reading a homilyfrom the Cistercian Publications
puts out the homilies of on theGospels of St Pope Gregory the
Great, and I think I literallyjust ran into one of his
homilies this morning when I wasreading.
I read like three homilies thismorning that mentioned her.
So she's all over the place.

(01:11:26):
So a good way to figure thatout is see the verses she's
mentioned and then look upbiblical commentaries from the
fathers or sermons or homilieson those parts of.
Or you can just do a textsearch.
You know, type in mag.
I wouldn't type in marymagdalene, I type in just
magdalene.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
Um, I'm gonna put this up because morticool is
like one of their biggestsupporters and he does this on
every, pretty much every showhe's always promoting latin
slavs, but they're.
They're.
They're a they're younger groupof guys trying to get their
pockets of the ground, and Idon't ever mind promoting those
guys.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
They're good guys, yeah, very good guys.
Yeah, I mean, if they reach.
We have a contact us portal onthe website.
Go to eternalchristiancom aboutus and then there's a contact
form.
So just reach out that way andthen JD's.

Speaker 3 (01:12:11):
Yep, what do you think about the?
Or what do all of us thinkabout the ethics of real estate
investing and landlording?

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
Hmm, I haven't thought about it enough.
I, I still rent.

Speaker 3 (01:12:25):
I live in California.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
I'm not sure when people say I'm grifting, it's
like well, at my former income Icould have afforded a house, no
problem now, Uh, not so much so.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
I would say listen to new polity on that.
Those guys, they're really goodNew Polity when it comes to
even 401ks and investments andthings like that.
They're probably the best guysto listen to on that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
Somebody else had a really good question, josh the
Giovanna or Giovanni JD I mayhave just missed when you
elaborate on our alien demons, Idon't think it's that simple.
I do think the phenomenon ismostly demonic.
Yes, I do have a lot ofthoughts on it that I wasn't
prepared for tonight, but I cansay the gist of what I think is

(01:13:11):
going on and I am more openabout it now.
Basically, the pre-incarnationworld governance was pagans
allied with the demonic to rulethe people.
I think that's just.
The gods of the nations aredemons, as saint paul says I
think he's quoting psalms orsomething like that so that was

(01:13:31):
shattered and not completelywiped out on earth by christ,
but it's.
It's it Christ, but it had itsback broken.
That's the angel binding thedragon and throwing him into the
pit in Apocalypse 20, verses 1through 3.
And then I think it's comingback.
It's the strong man who's bound, his goods are plundered from
the house.

(01:13:51):
That's the elect being broughtinto the church, but then he
comes back with seven moredemons.
So I think that system ofgovernance of the world has been
, you know, utterly throughChrist's permission, but been
allowed to come back, and so Iactually.
So there was a video I watchedthat I've never mentioned this
publicly.
It's not like I would have beenmore embarrassed about it
several years ago, but it'sactually very, very interesting.

(01:14:13):
So there's this video I watchedduring the lockdowns.
A friend sent it to me.
This guy I don't endorse thisguy, but he's a funny British
guy.
He does a lot of research intoShakespeare, the identity of
Shakespeare.
There's actually a legitimatedebate about was Shakespeare one
person or like an academicdebate?

(01:14:33):
So it's kind of mainstream.
So anyway, he analyzed the frontpage of the sonnets of
Shakespeare, um, graphically,and he, he like, did it with, uh
, math and whatnot.
Long story.
This sounds nuts.
If you go, I'm forgetting if I,maybe I can look up the video
and share with you guys, causeit has kind of an innocuous name
but it Sounds like the Biblecode sort of thing.

(01:14:53):
No, no, no, it's even morecrazy.
And he shows it all on hiswebsite.
Oh yeah, I'll try to find it.
It's Shakespeare EquationPyramid.
Look up something like that.
It's about a 12 to 13 minutevideo, spacing of all the stuff.
On this page are encodedmathematical constants that, as

(01:15:17):
of that year, according to thestandard historical timeline,
had not yet been discovered,things that wouldn't come for a
century, to sometimes even intothe 20th century, mathematical
constants that had not beendiscovered.
You listening, italian, yeah,making sure.
So then he shows, and he showsit very, very logically, no step

(01:15:39):
of it seems like a stretch tome.
He comes up with a set ofcoordinates through angles, you
know, east, west or whateverthey are, northeast, whatever
the longitude, latitude, typestuff is, comes up with a set of
angles, and the angles give aset of coordinates, and you put
those coordinates into GoogleMaps and I typed them all out
myself just to verify and you goand he says where will this

(01:16:00):
lead?
Boom, 300 feet away from thegreat pyramid of giza so okay so
so why?
why am I saying that?
Because this will soundcompletely unrelated.
So here's why I say that I dobelieve that there has been a
knowledge of nature that is acult, meaning secret, and has

(01:16:23):
been passed down by some and isthe result of demonic alien, I'm
sorry, demonic humancollaboration maybe.
No, no, no that, yeah, maybe, Idon't know.
I there's so much about this, Idon't know, and his theory and
conjecture, but I, I I do feelquite certain that there's
demonic human collaborationthroughout history that has

(01:16:47):
maintained I wasn't expectingtaste I don't, I don't always
give all my opinions aboutthings.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
I I'm getting more to the point for various reasons
getting more like anthony well,I'm waiting for the finish
because I'm going to roll upwith this topic.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
I got, so I do believe that some of this
collaboration and advancedscientific knowledge is real and
it can lead to advancedtechnology that can then be used
by this collaboration to bringabout false signs and wonders.
So are aliens demons?
I don't know.
I've heard, I think some ofthem are.

(01:17:21):
I've actually literally I'veshared some quotes from Eusebius
the church historian, where heliterally talks about demons
inhabiting the air and causingcertain phenomena.
The way he describes it isextremely similar to the UAP
stuff and he says we've beentaught to believe that this is
the demonic realm, et cetera.
I forget the exact wording ofthe quote, but this is why I

(01:17:41):
write all this stuff down inquote archives, because I just
simply can't remember everything.
But yeah, so here's the otherangle.
Exorcists will talk aboutdemons possessing people, but
they don't possess their soul,they possess their body, so they
essentially take.
When you're perfectly possessed, the motor functions of your
body are taken over by thisspirit, this fallen spirit.

(01:18:03):
Do I know this is happening?
No, one of my theories is thatthis advanced scientific
knowledge could perhaps becreating a sort of physical
substrate, because we cannotcreate souls.
Human beings cannot createsouls of animals, of whatever.
Only god creates souls.
So if they, want.

Speaker 3 (01:18:24):
But if they wanted to create, really create physical
objects, correct?

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):
as far as I'm aware yeah, as far as I'm aware.
So if this demonic humancollaboration could create a
biological entity, and then thatbiological entity is perfectly
possessed by a fallen spiritthat can animate it and make it
appear as if it's anothercreature, I think that's
possibly what's going on.
We've done this, Blessed Carl.

Speaker 3 (01:18:48):
Look up blue collar eschatology.

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
I wouldn't be surprised if some of these craft
are absolutely real, but arethe result of human demonic
collaboration that has led totechnological wonders that
appear magical to us.
Yeah, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:19:02):
So there's a.
If you go to the ancient worldand you see all of the ancient
structures they're all builtwith, like to coordinate with
the constellations and stars inheaven, yeah, to coordinate with
the constellations and stars inheaven, yeah, this kind of as
the Christian, as the kingdom,spreads upon the earth, this

(01:19:27):
pagan worship which really hasto do with all of these
structures and things like that,all of this worship of the
principalities in the heavensgoes away as the Christian
altars are going away and we'returning our churches into dance
halls and wedding venues andselling them off to let them be
mosques and things like that.
These entities are returning.

(01:19:48):
They're calling them non-humanintelligences.
For every period in humanhistory there has been a
category for non-humanintelligences.
For every period in humanhistory there has been a
category for non-humanintelligences like the.
The ancient world all had aplace for this and they were the
principalities and powers.
It's that these were thedemonic entities that we, that

(01:20:10):
they dealt with and that theyunderstood in the ancient world.
You get into modern times andbecause we have such a
materialistic worldview afterthe Enlightenment and even the
Protestant idea that there'sonly one God, not understanding
that there are false gods outthere and that because I
remember even my idea ofChristianity growing up was that
that stuff was nonsense, thatthere are no.

(01:20:32):
You know, maybe there's a devil, but there's not spirits
prowling about the earth seekingthe ruin of souls, things like
that.
Now that the Christian altarsare going away, now that we no
longer have processions withincense, these spirits are
coming back and, you see, peoplewant to worship something.

(01:20:53):
So it's just replacing God andand christianity, it's just a
replacement religion going in I,I think there's no.

Speaker 3 (01:21:01):
Um, I don't think it's coincidence that you have,
like, the whole spiritualist andin theosophy movement begin
right before the secondindustrial revolution.
Yeah, then you have the wholehippie movement begin right at
the beginning of the thirdindustrial revolution, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:21:19):
So I, I do think you can really tie occult movements
directly to, like, increases intechnology yeah, and I I do
believe there are genuinetechnological advancements, but
I I felt by the way, rob, I sentyou the link to that video, the
youtube video.
I found it.
It's about 13 minutes, ifpeople want to watch it.
Utterly fascinating, utterlyfascinating Again.

(01:21:41):
Do I dive into this stuff toomuch?
No, because I think some ofit's dangerous.
But once I know certain things,I know certain things.
Shakespeare's sonnets on theoriginal title page it was
encoding mathematical constantsthat, according to the standard
historical timeline, werecenturies away from being

(01:22:03):
discovered, but somebody knew it.
Somebody knew it.
So here is the line fromEusebius.
This is from Proof of theGospel, book 3, chapter 3.
I posted this a while ago.
It said he referring to Christ.
He taught us to believe thatthere are enemies of our race
flying in the air that surroundsthe earth and that there dwell,
with the wicked powers ofdemons, evil spirits and their

(01:22:25):
rulers, whom we are taught toflee from with all our strength,
even if they usurp forthemselves without limit, god's
name and prerogatives, and thatthey are to be shunned even more
because of their warfare andenmity against God.
Just found that to be very,very interesting and light us up
.
There are some things I do knowabout I can't talk about.
What I will say is that thereis big money, powerful money,

(01:22:50):
involved in some of theseefforts.
It's not a joke.
I don't know where it's goingto end.
It's not a joke.
I don't know where it's goingto end.
It doesn't seem benign.
It just doesn't seem benign tome.
And there are things that aregoing on Again since COVID.
It's just so interesting.
There are things that have beengoing To me.
It's not, ooh, what thesepeople are saying, I believe per

(01:23:13):
se, about the aliens or the UAPor the UFOs.
That's not the point.
The point is that there is nowa bipartisan consensus that at
least wants me to believecertain things about this stuff.
Okay, so anytime both sides aretelling me this is what's going
on, I'm like what is this for?
What is it for?

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
we, we think, our theory is that your, your
position on aliens is actuallywhat is is preventing you from
going on certain places.

Speaker 1 (01:23:43):
Really yeah, aliens, creationism, creationism I don't
really talk about creationism.
Don't tell me you believe inevolution.

Speaker 2 (01:23:54):
I'm sorry.
Do you believe in evolution?

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
I know Not really, but I make it sure I haven't
dived into it very much yeahit's not the church dogmatically
expects me to believe that Adamand Eve were one, one person
each, and they existed, andthat's what I believe.
So, beyond that, it's utterlyfascinating and I'm open to
whatever.
So.

Speaker 2 (01:24:17):
Okay, all right, so let's change topics here.
I want to get into this withyou because we had you on last
time.
We kind of got caught up in theweeds with like how do we
handle the Jew?
I don't care about like gettinginto specifics like that.
What I want to talk about isthe enmity between the older
brother and the younger brotherin Scripture in the Old
Testament, the older brother andthe younger brother in

(01:24:38):
scripture in the old Testament,how that plays out and then how
that enmity exists after theAscension, after the destruction
of the temple.
There's that enmity between theolder brother and younger
brother for 2000 years buildingup.
There's always been that and itseems like the church after the
events of world war two.

Speaker 1 (01:25:01):
McDermott, can I say one that, mcdermdermott?
Sorry, I am looking at thechats.
Big money coming from where,charles?
Uh venture capitalists sorry,venture capitalists, I can't let
you on a live show you have todo a prerequisite.

Speaker 2 (01:25:12):
This is insane.
Everything.
You're not listening toanything I'm saying.
You're reading the stupid chatI am.

Speaker 1 (01:25:17):
I am trying to.
You gotta stop.
Pay attention to the I'm tryingto.
You got to stop.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
Pay attention to the host.

Speaker 1 (01:25:21):
He's trying to get a good discussion going.

Speaker 2 (01:25:23):
All right, all right.

Speaker 3 (01:25:24):
This has been my favorite episode.

Speaker 2 (01:25:26):
This is my least favorite conversation with Josh
because he's not listening.
I'm trying to get aconversation going.
He keeps reading the stupidchat.
We're doing prererecords withyou from now on.

Speaker 3 (01:25:36):
I'll just put them on the screen for everyone to see
See.
Look, now they're right therefor everyone to see.

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
I thought earlier you said we could just answer the
questions in the chat.

Speaker 2 (01:25:46):
We could, but I'm trying to, alright.
Fine, you guys go Just playwith the chat, alright, I will
close the chats and I will focusentirely on you.
Listen to what.

Speaker 1 (01:25:55):
I'm asking you.
I can't see the comments now.

Speaker 2 (01:25:58):
I promise, Last time we did this we got caught up in
the weeds and we didn't reallyget to the substance of the
story.
Because I want to talk aboutthroughout the Old Testament.
You have the story of Cain andAbel.
You have the story of Jacob andEsau, however you pronounce it.
You have Christ when he's evengiving his parables and he tells

(01:26:22):
the story of the prodigal son.
These are all stories that haveto do with the older brother is
supposed to receive theinheritance and it ends up going
to the younger brother.
It happens over and overthroughout scripture and it
happens when the new covenantpasses on to the Gentiles and
the Jews reject that covenant.

(01:26:44):
Now that enmity exists andbuilds up over the past 2000
years and then it seems afterthe second world war, the church
has taken a different positionon it through various documents
from in the council, things likethat, and we may have taken a
different stance on thatrelationship, but I don't think

(01:27:06):
they have.
What is the relationship ofbetween the older brother and
younger brother?
How does that wind up playingout in the eschaton?
Like it doesn't seem trivial tome.
It doesn't seem like it's justgoing to be a mass conversion of
Jews in the end times.
It seems like there issomething more to the story.

(01:27:27):
The fact that God preservedthem as a people in and of
itself signifies to me that theyare still part of the story and
there's going to be somethingsignificant between the church
and and the Jews going forward,it's not to say individual Jews
are this.
I'm not talking about themcorrupting, I don't care.
I'm just saying that even thisstrike in Gaza is significant

(01:27:53):
because they're they're.
They're letting their enmityslip at times still, and I think
that the, the, the two entitiesare going to come to a clash in
the end.
Is there anything in thefathers talking about that, or
is it mainly just them?
Um, talking about how theantichrist will probably come
from the line of daniel, thingslike that I need to research it

(01:28:16):
a bit more.

Speaker 1 (01:28:16):
I haven't seen anything quite like how you
described it.
Here's where I've seen broad,if not unanimous, consensus in
the fathers that the Jews willaccept Antichrist as Messiah.
Attain the summit of temporalpower, um, and he'll be received

(01:28:42):
as the jewish messiah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:43):
Then you know, implicitly, that would seem to
um necessitate some sort ofclimactic clash between the two
and especially if most of it isrevolved around the idea that
the, the third temple, might bebuilt and they will try to, and
the antichrist will placehimself in the temple of God and

(01:29:04):
make make himself God.
There has to be.
That's why when I because whenI spoke with Eric about it, eric
was just giving me thelibertarian line and he's like,
well, we just shouldn't besupporting the state of it and
I'm like I don't care about that, like I care about the story I
want to know how this, how thisconcludes between the older
brother and younger brother,because if god does preserve

(01:29:27):
them and they do talk about that, the antichrist will be the
jewish messiah.
It seems like that clash thatcomes upon the church may come
from them.
Is that?
Is that crazy to think that?
I mean?
No, I don't think so.
No, right, the persecution thatthe church is going to face in
the end could come from thatrelationship between the two, I

(01:29:50):
I don't, I don't think that'snuts, no um how exactly that
will manifest.
I don't know right I yeah yeah,and so to me, when, when I'm
seeing this, especially thisweird obsession with zionism
amongst christians, um, it it's.
It won't just be the jews thataccept.

(01:30:11):
It will be heretics, and itwill be, yeah, it will be like
they're all going to be like doyou, do you?

Speaker 3 (01:30:17):
think?
You think thedispensationalists, do you think
they'll see this Antichrist asthe second coming of Christ?
If it's the Jewish Messiah, doyou think it will be another
coming of Christ to them,potentially?

Speaker 2 (01:30:32):
I don't know.
It's a question I.

Speaker 1 (01:30:36):
Saint Caesarius of Aarles is a father who needs to
be remembered because he was anincredible preacher and teacher
of scripture.
Saint cesarius of arles,a-r-l-e-s.
He had this line about whenantichrist comes I'm
paraphrasing there will be acrowd of heretics waiting for
him.
So, um, uh, how would I, howwould I phrase it?

(01:30:59):
Um, it's very interesting,because when you talk with
Orthodox Jews they will saythings like well, if you're a
Christian, that's great, that'show you reach God, and if you're
a Buddhist, that's great.
So within even modern Orthodox,which is to say rabbinic
Judaism, there is this sort ofecumenicalism built in which

(01:31:23):
many Protestants have alreadyaccepted hook line and sinker.
Many Catholics the church hasnot, although many in the
hierarchy, I think, have beenunclear at the very least about
that.
I'll just put it that way.
But most protestants haveaccepted it.
Many catholics, de facto, haveaccepted it.

Speaker 3 (01:31:43):
And historically most , I mean a lot of muslims did
too.
There was what his.
There's historically a veryclose relationship between
muslims and in jews.
It's only bad sense.
Well, well, that's, that's,that's another aspect,
absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:31:58):
So look, you have the Jews actually will say the that
Muslims worship one God andthey're monotheists and they
consider us like a pantheists orwhatever, because we call God a
Trinity Right.
So when I hear the churchtalking about how you know, even
that Abrahamic faith center wasso bizarre to me, because if

(01:32:19):
you go to Jesus when he'stalking in the Gospel of John,
he's telling the Phariseesangrily too If you were sons of
Abraham, you would love me likeAbraham did me.
Meaning Abraham, abraham knewme and he loved me, and if you
were sons of Abraham you wouldlove me.
But you know you worship yourfather, the devil.
So it's not.

(01:32:44):
You know I'm trying to avoidgetting too bombastic in what
I'm saying, but when even thiswhole conversation that's been
going on, do Christians andMuslims worship the same God?
I mean, I guess I understandwhat they mean by, on a natural
level, muslims worship one Godand there only is one God.
But no, they don't worship like.
The attributes they give thatGod are so drastically different
from what we see God as.

(01:33:05):
And even when, when you saw theconversation with Matt Fradd
and, uh, dennis Prager, which Iknow, you know, dennis Prager-
personally um, yeah, theconversation they had.
You saw how, how, um, modernjews don't have this
understanding of sins in theheart, right, they?
They don't.

Speaker 1 (01:33:25):
There's no lust of the heart for them, there's no I
wouldn't say I, I wouldn't saydennis is representative of all
of them, by any means in thatregard, yeah yeah, there's,
there are a number of orth Jews,because Dennis is not an
Orthodox Jew.
Dennis is, if anything, closerto Karaite Jews.
Karaites are like Sola Toraamong Jews.
They're like the Sola Tora, butthey're kind of like Bible

(01:33:48):
alone.
They don't do the Talmudicstuff.
So, yeah, so Dennis, I wouldn'tsay Dennis is super
representative, superrepresentative.
But what?
Where the jews, uh, where theorthodox jews are just are just
incorrect, is they believe theycan follow the 613 mitzvot
without being remade as newcreatures by the holy spirit.
That's, that's the fundamentalin many ways.

(01:34:11):
That's the fundamentaldifference between us and them.
We believe that human natureneeds to be recreated, it needs
to be reborn, it needs to beregenerated.
There needs to be acircumcision of the heart, right
?

Speaker 2 (01:34:23):
so yeah, there needs to be a circumcision of the
heart.
There needs to be a genuinedisposition change where you see
the world and the holy spiritenlightens you and um, so the.
But even when you get into um Iwas disagreeing with Eric about
so much was he had such a hardtime with me even suggesting

(01:34:46):
that and I don't mean all ofthem, but there is a segment who
want nothing more than theundermining of Christian society
because they see it as I mean,we claim their god, we claim
that we are the, we are thechosen people now, and that's
why I think the um, the, what dothey call it?

(01:35:07):
Replacement theology, the waythey actually explain it now,
that's super sessionism supersessionism.
I think that is such a a tensetopic to discuss these days,
because they get angry when youeven suggest that the god of
israel is they claim that it'sanother holocaust?

Speaker 3 (01:35:25):
yeah, just something like that, yeah, yeah so I I'm
not.

Speaker 1 (01:35:30):
What about a holocaust?

Speaker 3 (01:35:31):
they, uh, a lot of it's.
I have heard it claimed that tosay that we are the israel.
You know, we are israel, thenew israel.
However you want to phrase it,that that is like another
holocaust to the jewish peoplewell, that I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:35:49):
I think it needs to be expressed and articulated
with love, but that's absurd, ofcourse yeah I mean, the law of
moses was always provisional,and the people who got this
first and most fervently were abunch of Jews who founded the
Catholic Church.

Speaker 2 (01:36:05):
Yeah, the way I see the early church starting is
it's a schism within Judaism.
I mean, it's such a significantportion of Jews that are the
early Christians.
At Pentecost, peter ispreaching to the Jews and
thousands are converting right.
So it's a schism that happenswithin Judaism in the early

(01:36:26):
church and it's like that is howthe covenant passes on to and
there's no like the templesignifies the outer court and
the inner court, that wall ofseparation is broken down.
If you're reading Paul inEphesians, paul talks about that

(01:36:47):
.
The dividing wall of hostilityis broken down.
There's neither Jew nor Greekor you know they're all one in
the body of Christ.
They are the new Israel.
But when you're talking aboutthis.

Speaker 1 (01:36:58):
It's not even a new israel, it's.
It's just israel yeah it's justisrael.

Speaker 2 (01:37:04):
Yeah, the new israel would actually be heaven.
Right, it would be the newheaven and the new earth, I
guess.
Well, no, that would just beisrael too.

Speaker 1 (01:37:11):
I I just like saying israel just fulfilled, you know
it's, it's, it's there was a.
It's like, if here's yourstarting point and here's your
end point, it's's like Judaismwas always going like this and
then Christ took it to the endpoint and like that's still the
same fundamental thing, it'sstill the people of God on his
pilgrimage, ultimately to aheavenly homeland.
And then there was a largeportion of people, according to

(01:37:35):
the flesh, who rejected thatbecause they think the ultimate
homeland is the Jerusalem belowinstead of the Jerusalem above.
And you know, there's that jokeabout where there's a will,
there's relatives, and so ifanybody's been through those
sorts of, I've been blessed tohave avoided those sorts of
arguments with family members.
But you know, but things canget really nasty when there's a

(01:37:59):
will left by a testamentary willand family members start
fighting over it.
So in many ways this is a fightover a will.
Who is the inheritor of this?
And part of what I referred toearlier, the harmony of the
gospels by St Augustine he'sshowing the Catholic Church is
the inheritor of it and we canshow this because the prophecies

(01:38:20):
speak of the Messiah treadingdown the gods of the heathens
and he's like look around you,paganism is dying everywhere,
everywhere, I mean.
The fathers were literallysaying prophecy is being
fulfilled right before our eyes,and it's not being fulfilled
because of jews faithful tomoses.

(01:38:40):
It's being fulfilled bycatholics faithful to a jew
named jesus christ.

Speaker 2 (01:38:45):
You know so, you know , it's that yeah I guess my it
my, my main concern and I.
It's hard to have thisconversation, especially on
youtube, but my main concern isyou have, on one end, the people
that are going so far with theconversation that could arise
like it could rouse hostilitytowards them, which you never

(01:39:08):
want, right, you never want torouse hostility but at the same
time, you don't want Catholicswho to underestimate the
significance of what ishappening in the world and that
relationship between the olderbrother and the younger brother,
and that there are things thatyou really do need to be
concerned about.
And just taking one side onthis going, oh well, no, we have

(01:39:31):
to just make sure that eventnever happens again.
That happened before is kind ofcrazy because it leads to not
being able to criticize any ofthe actions that we're seeing in
the world today.

Speaker 1 (01:39:45):
Yeah, I mean, frankly , I haven't dived into all these
issues about where I hearaccusations made about Jewish
influence, so I'm notcomfortable making certain
assertions unless I haveresearched them.
And, frankly, given I'm 37,pretty young, but I've always
been an old soul I have a keensense of how limited time is,

(01:40:06):
and so the fathers are my focusand we're putting up a lot more
stuff about these sorts ofissues.
In the fathers there's a wholequote archive about the end
times that I'm coming up with.
There's a whole subtopic aboutJerusalem, the conversion of the
Jews, antichrist, you know,demonic deception, things like
that.
So, trust me, I'm putting itout there.
But but you know there's lotsof accusations made that I I

(01:40:28):
need to research it more.
I'm not a meme research person,you know.
Um, I've seen all sorts ofgarbage put out there my whole
life.
Where people put out thesequotes, including even from the
fathers, they won't provide asingle reference, or like barely
one reference.
But I go and look at it, it'slike that's not really what he
said.
So I'm a footnotes guy and so Iam not going to take a strong.
You're not asking me to do this, but just so people know I'm

(01:40:50):
not going to take a strongstance on something unless I've
actually researched it.
But what I will say is this Ido think when we get to the end
of history, you know, the greatapostasy comes first, the great
apostasy of who, the Gentiles.

Speaker 3 (01:41:01):
The.

Speaker 1 (01:41:02):
Gentiles For sure.
So we are going to get to theend of history and both brothers
will have failed collectivelyin a horrific way.
And that's not to get the olderbrother off the hook by any
means Not at all.
I mean, look, in many wayspeople need to realize this is

(01:41:22):
very important.
People need to realize thatthis question was actually
settled in a practical sensecenturies ago.
I'll tell you when it wassettled when we decided that
every society of any kind isbound by a covenant.
The question was are Christiansgoing to be bound in a
covenantal society calledChristendom, or in a temporal
society called a constitutionalrepublic, where it's a merely

(01:41:45):
temporal pact that holds us alltogether allegiance to the
constitution or whatever it isor it's a spiritual pact,
meaning the allegiance throughbaptism or baptismal vows,
because that society is gone,it's basically completely gone,
and the moment you say, the bond, the covenant that binds
society is no longer going to bea supernatural covenant but a

(01:42:07):
natural covenant.
In many ways this has alreadybeen decided, because you're
already putting Christ andantichrist on the same level.
Okay, so that was practicallydecided centuries ago, and
people need to realize that youcan't just, you can't just undo
all of that on the on the blinkof a dime if it's going to be
undone at all.
I personally think it's part ofthe prophetic process of the

(01:42:28):
restrainer no longer restraining.
But yeah, the fathers, the popes, you know, compare Luther's
against the Jews and their lies,which is just this horrific
screed that calls for death andmurder.
And it's just horrific.
I mean, the Nazis could quoteit proudly with no issue.
And you compare that to a papaldocument, multiple papal

(01:42:48):
documents on the Jews, wherethose popes, 20th and 21st
century liberals, by no meansthey believe that the Jews
needed their influence needed tobe curtailed and whatnot.
They did not believe in equalrights, so-called for all.
There's no doubt about it.
But they also said the Jewsneed to be protected because
they are.
It's very interesting, st RobertBellarmine I'm forgetting in

(01:43:09):
which work it is.
I think I talked about thiswith Gideon Lazar recently and
then with Christian Wagner.
But he addresses the questionof like why do we treat heretics
?
Why is the church treatheretics far more harshly than
the, than the Jews?
You know, because if you are aheretic, they weren't burning
Jews at the stake, they werebringing heretics at the stake,
you know.
So people don't realize that.

(01:43:30):
So it's like the Catholicchurch was more harsh toward
people within the family fullybetrayal.
Yeah, it fully betrayal.
Yeah, it was betrayal.
But robert bellarmine I don'thave the exact quote memorized,
but he said something to theeffect of the heretics are
completely making up a religion,whereas the jews are at least
responding to an actual religionthat's been fulfilled, and they
have denied that fulfillment.
So that's a really seriousissue.

(01:43:52):
It's damnable, but but they arestill responding to what is a
real religion, whereas hereticsare just making up their own,
and that's part of the reasonthe church is so much more harsh
toward heretics.

Speaker 2 (01:44:03):
So okay, so so the return of babylon at the end of
time and the whore riding itsback now in the?
If you're looking at ittypologically, in the first
first century it's Rome, rightyeah, and it's Israel riding its

(01:44:25):
back.
Who?

Speaker 1 (01:44:25):
crucifies the Messiah right.
Theoretically yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:44:28):
Right and if.

Speaker 1 (01:44:29):
Antichrist is Jewish and accepted as the Jewish
Messiah.
I think that's possibly anaccurate reading.

Speaker 2 (01:44:37):
Yeah, I mean obviously this, none of this is
dogma or doctrine.
I'm just looking at the story.
I'm not pointing fingers atanything.
I'm just saying that it seemslike the persecution will come
from the new Rome and with, with, almost like with, with the

(01:44:57):
older brother being the whoreriding the back of it, I don't
see how to.
I don't.
I don't see how to read it anyother way.

Speaker 1 (01:45:04):
Yeah, I think that's very pot.
I've been thinking that myself,honestly.

Speaker 2 (01:45:07):
I've been thinking that myself, um yeah, and that's
not to condemn every individual, it's just that's.
I think it's part of the storyand I think that will also
glorify god in the end and it'sjust one of those things that
it's it's going to glorify Godin the end and it's just one of
those things that it's going toglorify God in the end.

Speaker 1 (01:45:22):
So I was talking about this with Gideon Lazar, so
it's extremely interesting.
Most people are not aware ofthis.
In the rabbinic tradition thereare two messiahs, messiah ben
Yosef and Messiah ben David, andbasically Messiah, son of
Joseph, is the more meek andhumble one, the one coming in on
a cult right Um a donkey, uh,not a C?

(01:45:46):
U L T, a, c O L T?
Um.
And then Messiah Ben David isthe one cut, the son of man
coming down from heaven andwhatnot, which Jesus quotes at
his, his, his, uh, trial rightUm, his, at his trial right His
very irregular and unjust trial.
But of course, just a few daysprior he had walked in on a cult
.
So we would say in rabbinicterms that Jesus is both Messiah

(01:46:08):
ben Yosef and Messiah ben David, but this does exist in the
rabbinic tradition.
Extremely interesting.
The reason why it's interestingis because it's related to this
older brother younger brotherdynamic.
The rabbis were seeing that inthe story of Joseph there is
something messianic about it.
Well, what happens with Josephhe's the younger brother, he's

(01:46:29):
sold into slavery by his otherbrothers and then he goes to the
Gentiles, he's thrown in prisonMakes me think of Jesus
descending into Sheol.
Perhaps he's tempted by Potmakes me think of Jesus
descending into Sheol.
Perhaps he's tempted right byPotiphar's wife, by the wife of
a guy who thought he was a godon earth?
Right, the pharaoh?
Well, I guess no, it'sPotiphar's wife.

(01:46:49):
I'm sorry, not the pharaoh, butanyway, he's tempted, he
survives temptation, he goesdown into the pit, then he's
brought out, he resurrects, soto to speak, and then he's made
the second man in the kingdom.
So we'd see that as like theson under the father, christ
under the father, and, and thenhe saves his brothers yeah,
because he was able to providefor them.
And then they end up coming andthen they realize, they repent,

(01:47:11):
there's reconciliation and hesays what you meant for evil,
god meant for good.
So I think this is a perfectpicture of what will happen
between, uh, god's you know theabraham, according to the flesh
who are outside of christ now,you know jews, as it were, and
catholics.
I think this is part of whatwill happen at the end, and you

(01:47:35):
know some extremely nasty thingswere done to Joseph.

Speaker 2 (01:47:39):
So yeah, I think.
I think part of that story isthe reconciliation of the two
brothers at the end and I thinkthat is going to play a very big
part in in displaying the gloryof God.
I think all of it it's yeah,I'm, I'm, I'm cautiously going

(01:48:02):
through everything, everythingI'm seeing, being careful,
because I see everybody thatdoes touch this topic.
They kind of they just getobsessed on this time.

Speaker 1 (01:48:06):
I have seen people talk about, yeah, they go crazy,
I don't ever want to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:48:09):
Like absolutely nuts, diabolically, demonically nuts,
yeah, where they see, wherethey see they're in control of
everything, and it's a and itand I don't ever want to get
like that, because I think thatcan actually disturb your peace
of soul a lot.
I've seen the same thing you'retalking about, you know, but at
the same time, I love, I loveseeing the grand thing playing

(01:48:32):
out and I and I also want to beaware of what could happen and
how it could play out, and Idon't want to be naive to it
either.

Speaker 1 (01:48:39):
So it's a, it's look, this is a core issue of
Catholic identity.
If you know, I have gottenangry messages.
There was a tweet I put up afew years ago where I basically
said nobody will just bejustified by the law of Moses
and I I basically made a Paul, avery, very Pauline sort of

(01:49:06):
statement.
I won't say who, but it was avery.
If I said the name if you're inpolitical discussions, you
would definitely know who thename is A very prominent Israeli
messaged me and basically saidwhy are you saying these things?
Because all it does is arousehatred against my people.
Essentially, and I said I'm nottrying to arouse hatred against
your people, I'm preaching thetruth of the Christian faith, or
I'm saying the truth of theChristian faith.
And I said Ben Shapiro said hethought Jesus Christ was a

(01:49:29):
criminal and got what was comingto him.
He said that on the biggestpodcast in the world.
So are you going to correct him?
And this person and I thinkhe's a decent man in many ways,
but, um, but on the naturallevel but he, he made a very
interesting comment.
He said if I said, if I gave mytrue opinions about your
religion in public, all it woulddo is arouse hatred and I

(01:49:51):
thought that was veryinteresting and I said I'm not
going to stop you, go ahead,let's talk about it.
And my offer was notreciprocated.
But but, yeah, so, and I've hadother Jewish friends from
Israel who I love dearly.
I have Palestinian friends aswell who I love dearly.
You know they're Habibi.
You know, habibi, how are youdoing?
That's an Arab term for brother, essentially beloved, and it's

(01:50:12):
a term of great affection.
Yeah, again, a lot of thesethings are.
If I haven't sufficientlyresearched certain things, I'm
just not going to make strongstatements on it.
I know that that's very popularin our sort of reactionary
culture where it's like there'sthis sort of diabolical mimesis
Girardian.
You know, renee Girard, talkingabout this, that people want

(01:50:34):
you to like join up andsacrificing their sacrificial
victim, want you to like join upand sacrificing their
sacrificial victim.
But I would say is I think thereare ways to speak extremely
clearly and directly anduncompromisedly about these
things, while also realizinglook, the devil has an interest
in destroying the Jewish people.
One, because if they diewithout knowing Christ, they're

(01:50:56):
going to go to hell, you know,all things being equal.
And two, because he knows therewill be a conversion.
It's actually very interestingthe fathers talk about.
They sometimes almost talkabout Jesus like he was like a
007 agent, almost like like themarriage with Mary and Joseph
was almost secret, like becausepeople needed to know that she

(01:51:19):
maybe think that she wasn't avirgin, because then they then
they wouldn't think there was amessianic implication to
Christ's birth or something likethat.
And they talk about Christbeing like this hook that was
that was meant to catch the fishof death and then on the cross
he catches death and he kills it.
It's like this fascinating andenthralling description of

(01:51:39):
Christ and his mission.
And so I say that because Satanhas an interest, he knows that
there will be a mass conversionof the Jews and he does want to
prevent that as much as hepossibly can.
So I am trying to thread thisline, not by denying malign

(01:52:00):
Jewish influence it is real notby denying the enmity.
It is real, not by denying thatthe church is Israel fulfilled
and that if you're outside of itthere's no salvation,
absolutely, but there's alsobeen, if you you know I've been
to the middle east quite a fewtimes more than most people arab
countries, israel, whatever youget to know people, there's

(01:52:24):
genuine trauma, there's hurtpeople.
There's people whose entirefamily was wiped out in the
holocaust or elsewhere, and andin the holy land as well
palestinian and israeli.
And I'm sorry, the internetjust doesn't foster a thoughtful
, truly charitable approach tothese things.
It just doesn't.
And I'm not claiming I'm alwaysdoing it right.

(01:52:45):
I'm, but I am trying to do itvery thoughtfully and in a way
that I hope is is absolutelyloyal to what our faith requires
, but is also um alive to thehuman realities of this
situation, which are extremelyreal.
And you know, my next book willbe with Catholic Answers, called

(01:53:07):
the Third and Final Temple howthe Catholic Church Fulfills the
Old Testament.
It's going to be dedicated toDennis Prager and with the hope
that he converts, and he knowsthat, he knows that.
So I don't have a problemspeaking clearly about these
things, but if I haven'tresearched a topic about
financial influence or this orthat or the other, like you know
, there are some people who sayJosh, say who'd, say who did

(01:53:29):
nine 11, and they're expectingme to say it was the Jews or
Israel.
Maybe they did.
Is it possible?
Absolutely, absolutely,absolutely.
It's possible but it's not anissue that I have deeply
researched.
It's not.

Speaker 2 (01:53:41):
Yeah, no, I understand that, and if you
don't, one last point.

Speaker 1 (01:53:44):
Guess what?
It's not my effing vocation.

Speaker 3 (01:53:47):
Excuse my.

Speaker 1 (01:53:47):
French.
I'm not going to say the fullword.
It's not my vocation, I've gotbetter things to get over.

Speaker 2 (01:54:05):
My my position on all of that stuff about, about the
subversion stuff is just yeahwell, I just see it as part of
the story.
They of course they want tosubvert it because sure, we
claim the kingdom of heaven cometo earth and we you know.
So it's just part of the storyto me?
I don't I don't ever look at anindividual, uh, as anything.

(01:54:26):
I I you know, and I think this,this conversation was done in
charity, um, I think and we needto push back against the
definition of anti-semitism.

Speaker 1 (01:54:34):
I do that a lot too.
I I joked.
Recently I was like breakingisaiah.
Jeremiah ezekiel declaredanti-semitic for their views on
israel just just just to showhow ridiculous this is it's like
if, with the current definitionof anti-semitism, the prophets
of israel are anti-semites,which, of course, is absurd.

Speaker 2 (01:54:56):
It's absurd um, yeah, all right.
So, uh, we're at two hours,josh, I appreciate you, uh,
giving us this two hours,especially after I canceled on
you last week.
I know you've been busy goingon.

Speaker 1 (01:55:08):
I didn't mention it publicly.
You would give me crap forsomething like that all the time
, publicly and privately.
I have not given you crap.

Speaker 2 (01:55:14):
No, I appreciate it he was supposed to be on last
week and I got stuck working anight shift and we canceled the
show.
So but I know you've been busy,like going on other people's
shows and this stuff getsexhausting.
You do two or three a week andby the end of it you're just
like I'm completely depleted.
So I appreciate you giving ustwo hours tonight.

Speaker 1 (01:55:32):
I think the audience for one thing yeah, of course,
please pray for me, becausethese things are very weighty.
Please pray for me becausethese things are very weighty.
I take it very seriously andtwo years ago I had 8 000 on x.
Now I've got 54, the youtube 16.
These things are very weighty.
I don't want to speakimprudently or uncharitably and

(01:55:52):
so, yeah, just please pray forme well, I want to speak very
directly, but but, but you knowthe rage.
lords, lords on social mediadon't like what I have to say
sometimes and frankly I don'tgive a damn.
I'm going to speak in the way Ithink Christ would be happy
with how I speak at the end ofthe day.

Speaker 2 (01:56:11):
Yeah, no, I never want you playing in the mud like
we do.
I like that you keep your handsclean and you don't have to
worry about the riffraff.

Speaker 1 (01:56:21):
All right, Josh Thank you so much.
Sorry, josh, there's onemediator.
I don't deny that.
Is that a joke?
It's a joke, it's a joke, oh,okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:56:30):
What else can we say about Eternal Christendom?
How can people support it?

Speaker 1 (01:56:35):
Eternalchristendomcom .
Go to the top, become a patron.
It's a tax deductibleorganization.
Help us build this chapel phase, which is just helping us get
our cost covered.
Um, if you can give more, great.
But we're asking ten dollars amonth.
If we have two thousandcatholics, do that, we are
covered indefinitely.
We know things are expensive.
I live in california, I knowthings are expensive, but you
know, ten dollars a month isless than netflix.

(01:56:56):
It's less than youtube premium.
That's a coffee and a bagel atStarbucks, maybe $10 a month.
If you're willing, if you cangive more, great.
But we've got a lot more comingand just please consider
supporting us, if you will.

Speaker 2 (01:57:09):
Yeah, guys, go and go .
I'm telling you, if you haven'tseen it yet, go watch that Dr
Alan Femister episode.
It's at like 16 000 views rightnow.
I want that thing at 100 000.
I think I love ashley.
I've listened to it three timesat this point and every time I
catch something I missed thefirst, you know the last time I
watched it, so definitely anexcellent one.
Um, yeah, josh, thank you man.

(01:57:29):
I appreciate your friendshipabsolutely.
I appreciate you being willingto come on with us with our bad
reputations like that.
You, you love the worst of thecenters of the church, don't we
all?
Don't we all All?
Right, we will see you guys onThursday.
I don't know what we're doingyet.

Speaker 3 (01:57:45):
And Saturday too.
We'll see everyone on Saturday.

Speaker 2 (01:57:48):
Yes, yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:57:49):
We appreciate it yeah .

Speaker 2 (01:57:54):
We'll figure out how we're going to do that one.

Speaker 1 (01:57:55):
We have Theo Howard, an extremely articulate guy
Great guy.

Speaker 2 (01:57:57):
Yeah, he's going to have a hard time understanding
me.

Speaker 3 (01:57:59):
He's going to have a hard time with.
Your poor manners is what he'sgoing to have a hard time with.

Speaker 2 (01:58:03):
Yeah.
So all right, guys, We'll seeyou next time.
See you.

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