Scott Hahn Refutes Catholic Zionism in Awkward Exchange

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_04 (00:26):
Went old school for that intro.
Yeah, we did.
Tappy's intros, they were justso bombastic.
Cancellation level bombasticthis time.
Maybe we'll do them for uhthat'll be a good locals teaser.

SPEAKER_05 (00:40):
Like Tappy's videos are I don't know if we should
play them for locals, man.

SPEAKER_04 (00:44):
They're pretty bad.
I don't know.
I think we can do it for thelocals audience.
We'll do them for the localsaudience.
But um uh a little update beforewe get into the topic at hand.
Um well well, just to touch onthe topic real quick.
Um, I wanna I wanna I wannahandle this properly tonight
because I know the thumbnailseems like we're we're gonna

(01:05):
like go after Gavin orsomething.
That's not what I want to do.
I want to go through thosevideos.
I cut a I cut a few clips up,and I want to really get for the
record.

SPEAKER_05 (01:14):
Anthony is talking about a recent interview between
Gavin Ashaden and Scott Hahn.
Well, for those of you who arenot online all the time.

SPEAKER_04 (01:22):
Well, no, well, the thumbnail and title, I figured
handled that.
So that that's what we're goingto go through tonight.
But um, I do want to give youguys a little update on the uh
so okay, so yesterday I was atwork and we had to put a
fundraiser together for a guy Iwork with who has been out of
work for six weeks.
And um, and we passed it aroundthe company, and we just like

(01:44):
all the guys at the company justthrew a little something to the
guy because he's been out ofwork for six weeks.
He he had he had an injuryoutside of work and he hasn't
been able to work for six weeks.
And while I was making it,something just kind of hit me
about uh something that's beenweighing on my heart for a very
long time, uh, that my brotheris going through.
And my my brother in the summerof 2024, so it's a year, a year

(02:09):
of uh a year plus.
Uh, there was a really bad, likehundred-year flood that hit Long
Island.
I was in Pennsylvania when ithappened, and when I came home,
my brother's house wascompletely flooded, the whole
basement, and like six inches ofthe first floor, and it
destroyed his oil burner.

SPEAKER_05 (02:29):
He uh boiler for those boiler, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:32):
It's I mean, yeah, like his gas, his oil burner, uh
boiler furnace.
Um, and he had a company come inand look at it, and they were
like, Oh, we think we can fix itand give us three grand and
we'll fix it.
He gave the guys three grand,and the thing lasted for two
weeks and it burst again.
And now this was in Nov.

(02:52):
This was it happened in uhAugust, right as the winter was
coming, my brother's furnacewent out, and he had space
heaters in every single bedroom,and he can't he has no hot
water, so his wife and kidswould have to go to my mom's
house to shower, or when he hecould turn the hot water heater
on, but it would pour water intothe basement.

(03:12):
So they he had to be home whenit happened, and he had to have
a pump running as he did it.
So when he comes home from work,he'll turn it on and he'll leave
the pump running and he'll takea quick shower and then come
down.
But it's been a been a legitnightmare for him for a year.
My brother, uh, this is the thisis the brother that I've told
the story on air.

(03:33):
Um, me and him together got ourgirlfriends pregnant when we
were, I know I was 21 and he was19.
Had to go and tell my parentstogether that we got our
girlfriends pregnant.
My wife now, like this isn'tlike you know, anybody that
doesn't know the story.
This is now my wife, and this ismy oldest son.

(03:53):
We're talking about this was 19years ago.
Uh, but yeah, like it justhappened, it was just like a
coincidence.
Like, we both got ourgirlfriends pregnant, like the
same week, and we had to go tomy parents together and tell my
parents that we were pregnant.
We we were pregnant, ourgirlfriends were pregnant.
Um now my dad was furious.

(04:14):
He's like, What did you do?
Plan this, like he flipped out,he went nuts.
What'd you do, assholes?
Plan this is what he said.
Um, uh, but the thing is, myparents knew Nicole and I were
going to get married, and theywere very worried about Mikey.
And like from that, from fromthat moment, like it's always
been like this kind of likething where I don't know, my

(04:37):
brothers had it really hard, youknow, and like everybody seemed
to be like excited for me and mywife, and everybody was kind of
like worried about him, youknow.
This is the same brother thatfell into heroin addiction.
He's 18 months younger than me.
I mean, he's like my he's likemy Irish twin.
And um, like him and I were bestfriends growing up, and then he
falls into heroin addiction.

(05:00):
Every day of my life for likefive years, I was waiting for a
phone call to tell me that mybrother died.
Five years ago, my brother gotclean, and but that messy mate
in those five years.

SPEAKER_05 (05:11):
Was this the same?
Um the the our last episode, youtalked about how you know your
your family almost ostracizedsomeone, but your mom, yeah, the
door open.
This is him, right?

SPEAKER_04 (05:26):
Absolutely, yeah.
So, like this period where mybrother was addicted to heroin,
all of us, like all the men inthe home in the family,
especially, were like, cut himoff, stop, you're enabling him.
My mom left this door open tohim, and he five years ago he
gets himself clean.
He's been clean for five years,he hasn't had a single slip up.
This kid has been killinghimself to get his life in

(05:46):
order.
While he was using his house,fell into foreclosure.
He accrued a ton of debt.
He wound up after he gets clean,he goes into bankruptcy, but is
able to save his home and putall his credit cards, all
everything on the on the he'sgot to come up with like six
grand a month to pay off thisbankruptcy with his mortgage.

(06:07):
Then he's got all these otherthings, but he's killing himself
at work six days a week for fiveyears now.
And then last year, this thisstupid furnace thing happens.
Like three months later, his cardies on him.
So now for the past year, mybrother's been carpooling to
work with me, or my brother Dom,or my brother Joey, or my

(06:28):
brother uh Frankie, he's beencatching a ride into work every
day.
He doesn't like he he he just isunderwater, like feels like he's
drowning.
And I've I've never wanted touse this platform for like
fundraisers and things likethat.
And and Rob has known about thissituation for a very long time.
I've been talking to Rob aboutthis, and when I put this

(06:50):
fundraiser together for the guyat work, I just kind of said to
Rob, I was like, Rob, I havelike the winter is here.
The winter's here.
Like, I I went I woke up andwent to work the other morning,
and it was 32 degrees in NewYork, and I'm like, this has
space heaters in every room inhis house.
Like, that is the like leadingcause of home fires.

(07:11):
He doesn't have hot water in hishome for his kids to take a
freaking bath at the end of theday.
And I just finally just said toRob, I said, I think I'm going
to put a fundraiser together formy brother.
I put a fundraiser together andI kind of just guessed because I
I had to do a uh uh my burnerwent and I did a gas conversion,
it cost 10 grand.
So I put a fundraiser togetherfor yeah, and he has three

(07:32):
little kids also, um, all underthe age of 12.
Like he's got little kids.
Um, so I um I I I had to do mymy burner a couple of years back
and it was 10 grand.
So I put the fundraiser up and Ijust put 10 grand in.
And I did this yesterdayafternoon, and I'm like, okay,
maybe this will take a week ortwo and we'll get there.

(07:53):
You know, we'll mention it onthe show.
I went to bed last night and ithit 10,000 while I went to bed
last night.
So I woke up this morning and itwas it's it's actually at 11
now.
11 too.
Yeah, my brother still has noidea I'm doing this, and he
doesn't watch the show, so I'mnot worried about him seeing
this.
Um, so I uh he worked latetonight, and I had a guy from

(08:15):
the HVAC guy come and meet me athis house.
And we knocked I knocked on hisdoor, his wife, his wife answers
the door, and I was just like,Oh, I just had my friend come
and look at the burner realquick.
He might, you know, to see if hecould fix it or something.
The estimates for$18,000.
Man, that's$18,000.

(08:36):
So I'm uh so I I I might have toraise the the the the number on
the fundraiser.
Um, but I'm also getting otherestimates because the the
company I picked was a bigcompany, and big companies throw
big numbers at you.
So I call three other places.
I'm getting I'm getting threeother estimates on this.
I do have uh my like my uncle.

(08:57):
I work for my uncle.
I know if that's if like we'reshort or grand or two or
something.
I know if I go to him and tellhim he'll he'll foot the rest of
it.
But if you guys haven't had achance, no, this is not for the
boat.
I would never, ever, ever, ever,ever ask for money for my boat
repair.
I probably got that fixed, bythe way.
I would never ever do that.
Um, the thing is, I wasthinking, like, all right, we

(09:18):
got 11 grand.
If it comes to nine, what I'lldo is I'll either I'll fill the
oil tank for him, right?
Like, we'll fill it with oil,and maybe we could put something
towards the a car.

SPEAKER_05 (09:29):
Because I don't know what heating oil costs for you
guys is there, but a tank hereis like seven, eight hundred
bucks, right?

SPEAKER_04 (09:35):
Yeah, to fill the tank.
It's not it's like three bucks agallon, it's a 300 gallon tank,
it's like 900 bucks.
So I figured if there wasanything left over, we would
just fill the tank with that.
Um, or if there's more thanthat, if we could you could just
sell the boat for if it came tothat, I would do that for him.
Um the what I just want to Iwant to help him.

(10:00):
Like, this is not this is notjust some um we're all worried
about like what we could donateto today because you don't know
what the church is giving moneyto.
Like, when I tell you when likeI cannot wait to film telling
him that I'm that we're gettingthis done for him.
My brother is going to weep withjoy because this has been you

(10:21):
guys have never seen in a bodyweep.
Yeah, it's it's a lot.
So Rob's gonna throw the linkup.
Uh, like we're I'm probablyabout 6,000 down, even though it
says I hit my goal, we're we'rea ways off from right now.

SPEAKER_05 (10:33):
We're at 11,000.
We'll just say right now thegoal's 18,000.
So we'll just say it's that.

SPEAKER_04 (10:38):
If it's a little short, I'll I'll go to my uncle
and I'll ask him to cover it.
If there's extra, if if I windup getting a second price and
they tell me 15 or something,whatever's left is going to go
towards like a beater car forhim to get to where like I'm not
keeping a dollar of this.
I would never ever ask you guysfor money and then scam it
somehow.
Like, I'm so like I'm I do notplay games with money, I will

(11:00):
never face God for stealing,ever, ever.
Like, you could ask Rob how I amwith money, like, I do not ever
play games with that stuff.
It's like if if something likeif Rob has an expense that I
that I didn't have, I'm like,dude, we'll split it.
Like, we always are honest withone another with money.
I don't ask you guys forsomething that is out of line

(11:21):
ever.
And my brother means the worldto me, and I want to really try
and help this kid.
So if you guys could find it inyour hearts to give a little
bit, I would appreciate it.
And I will give you guys anupdate and I will film it.

SPEAKER_05 (11:35):
So uh now to the subject at hand, and the link is
in both the live chat and thedescription for anyone.

SPEAKER_04 (11:42):
Um, to to the subject at hand.
Um, if you guys come onpilgrimage, you'll be able to
see an a body weep in person.
Uh I was I was shocked by theprice.
I'm gonna be honest.
Like, I really was when the guytold me 18, I was like, Oh my
goodness, like, oh man, it wasprobably getting kicked in the
stomach.
And because I I was like hopingthe guy would tell me whether it

(12:05):
was within that range, and mybrother, I was gonna be able to
like talk to my brother todayabout it.
And and I'm just I was like sosad when that happened.
So we're gonna see what we coulddo.
Like I said, if if if I don'thit the goal, there is somewhere
I can go where I can asksomebody to kick in the rest.
I'll throw in money myself,whatever we have to do, we're
gonna get it done.
But to everybody that donated,like, there are some people that

(12:28):
donated a thousand dollars, morethan one person donated a
thousand dollars and they did itanonymously.
Like, when you talk aboutbuilding treasure in heaven, I'm
like I'm there first off, everyone of you, like I want you to
put your names in it, especiallyif you watch the show or you
know me on Twitter.
Like, I want you to put yournames in it because I want to

(12:49):
thank you.
Like, but those but some ofthose people that did something
like that, um, I was just like,holy cow, man, for somebody to
throw a thousand in and just doit anonymously.
It's it's really unbelievable.
So, thank you all to anybodythat did donate to this.
It's really uh they're going tobe buying and installing a new
boiler, brand new boiler, andnew oil tanks, oil tanks

(13:10):
leaking, like the whole thing isdestroyed.
This is just the HVAC stuff, letalone damage to the rest of the
house.
Well, that's the thing, hisentire basement was flooded, and
the first floor, like fourinches with flood.
So people were saying, like, whycan't the family come together?
Like, we have we had to look, hedidn't like he the insurance
covered none of it because itwas a natural disaster.

(13:32):
They didn't cover a dollar.
Yeah, New York was supposed toput like FEMA was gonna put a
program together for New Yorkersthat were affected by this.
Kathy Hokel canceled theprogram.
There was no way for him to likeapply for anything, nothing.
His neighbor had$140,000 indamage done to his house.
His neighbor literally guttedhis entire house and redid it.
We had to do everything we couldby hand and we had to do the

(13:54):
work ourselves and stuff.
Like, we we believe me, we allhunt my whole family.
None of my family's wealthy,except like my uncle who I work
for, but none of my like we allwork construction, we're all
barely making ends meet.
We all do the best we can to getby in this life.
It's like my parents aren'twealthy, my dad's on a fixed
income, he's a retiredconstruction worker.
So we do we have done everythingwe can.

(14:15):
I just asked for help, whichI've I tried to really not do,
and I try not to ever abuse thisplatform that God has given me.
So, all right, I apologize forthis drawn-out family story.
In the last five minutes,they've just donated a thousand
dollars.
I guys, thank you so much, man.
I appreciate all of you.
Um, okay, so now to to the topicat hand.

(14:39):
Um the I so I uh I considerGavin a friend.
Um, and I'm gonna have twice.
Yeah, he's been on our showtwice.
Um I we played a clip of him theother night, and I might have
been like a little callous aboutthe way I played it.
Um and there's always peoplethat like watch things and go

(15:02):
and rat you out and stuff, butlike I I was just kind of using
him to to kind of show like whatwhat the older generation is
like how they're reacting tothis whole thing, this whole
question of anti-Semitism andstuff.
So now Gavin had Scott Hahn onhis show, and it was an amazing
episode.
So if you guys haven't seen it,you should go watch it.

(15:23):
But at about the 50-minute mark,it felt like Gavin was
shoehorning in the topic ofanti-Semitism.
And I thought Scott Hahn handledit masterfully.
Uh, but it was very awkward theway Gavin pressed the issue.
And I I wanted to go through theclips with you guys because it

(15:44):
just seemed very off to me, veryawkward, and and even the way
Scott replies to him, it'salmost like he like Gavin goes
to bring something up, and Scottdoesn't actually engage what
Gavin's saying, and Scott reallybrings it to what the what the
actual issue is and what we'vebeen talking about on this show
for a very long time.

(16:06):
And when when I saw the title ofthat show, uh Gavin Ashenden,
when I saw the title of thatshow, I was like very intrigued
because I'm saying I have beenwatching and reading Scott Hahn
for 20 years, and I learned allof my theology about the older
brother from Scott Hahn.

(16:27):
And I'm saying, I it like I wasreally curious to see where he
went with this because Icouldn't imagine Scott just
going in and ranting aboutanti-Semitism, like I just
couldn't, because he's the onewho kind of prepared me for the
things that we're seeing rightnow.
So I think we should just startin with clip one, and you guys
will kind of understand whereI'm going with this.

SPEAKER_05 (16:47):
First clip, first clip.

SPEAKER_04 (16:49):
Let's go, let's play it.
And uh, we might be pausing fromhere from time to time because
this is pretty heavy topics, andsome of the clips are four
minutes long.

SPEAKER_05 (16:56):
So the first clip is seven seconds.
Oh, is that the wrong clip then?

SPEAKER_04 (17:01):
All right, or properly.
How long is the second clip?

SPEAKER_05 (17:07):
320.

SPEAKER_04 (17:09):
Hmm.

SPEAKER_05 (17:10):
Because we're having a problem with um we usually do
the clips through throughTwitter, but that's not working
right now, so we're having to doit.
Oh, you know what?
It was it is, it was totallyweird.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (17:29):
Okay, okay, good.
Then okay, so yeah, so use likeTwitter, the way they change
their DMs is screwing up ourwhole show show uh chat.
So we have like a show chat onTwitter and it's not working
out.
So we're gonna do it throughTelegram.
So we gotta start from there.
So all right, make sure yourewind it.

SPEAKER_00 (17:46):
I did, I just gotta make sure the volume's up but
but not rejected, if one mightmight say it.
It was gonna graft in now in theum anti-Semitism, it's always
seemed to me is is uh is aphenomenon of of demonic
toxicity.
I suppose that's might be thebest way of describing the way I

(18:06):
see it.
And again, I don't want to putwords or concepts into your
mouth, but it it seems to mewe're struggling with, if you
like, uh issues of demonichatred and and theological
frameworks that could and shouldact as antidotes to them.
And I wondered if you couldoffer either anything that you
you see in St.
Paul or the Magisterium uh as aform of theological antidote to

(18:32):
this idea that we can we can sobegin to separate ourselves from
the Jews that we're entitled todespise them or uh accuse them
of things.
I was one of your a greatAmerican comedian, um Islam said
that that you know nothingnothing good ever comes from
putting two words in the Englishlanguage together, and it's the

(18:52):
words of the and Jews.
Dave Chantel, that's too much itwasn't.

SPEAKER_05 (18:58):
Okay, I was gonna say we gotta stop that.
We gotta stop there.

SPEAKER_04 (19:02):
Okay, so so what was really interesting about this
was we did the show the daybefore where we discussed Scott
Hahn at Steubenville, and thenwe played the Gavin clip.
And the next day, Gavin had aninterview with Scott Hahn, and
and Scott Hahn doesn't just dointerviews on the fly, so I'm
pretty sure they had the the askus how he knows that.

(19:24):
Oh, yes.
No, but I know I know peoplethat know Scott Hahn, and it's
like he's booked out for awhile, so but I do think Gavin
saw our show the night beforeand decided to shoehorn this
topic in because of it.
And the nervousness with whichhe's asking this question and
the Dave Chantel instead of DaveChappelle is is awkward, right?

(19:46):
Like you can see, he's verynervous as he's talking about
this.
Now, you know, Gavin has neverseen Dave Chappelle.
Where Gavin is getting thatquote from is the is the Rodre
article.

SPEAKER_05 (19:55):
Yes, because Gavin, you would be so terribly
offended if you watched DaveChappelle.

SPEAKER_04 (20:03):
Yeah.
Like so Gavin is getting that,he's getting that from the Rodre
article, which is what wediscussed on our show the night
before.
And it what we were trying to doin that show is just like the
generational divide on thisissue that they just they don't
grasp how the severity of it.

(20:23):
So I wanted to play that clipjust to show how nervous Gavin
is even setting this up.
But let's continue, let's seewhere this one ends.
And then the next one isactually Scott's response to it.

(20:45):
Catholic Jamie's not doinggreat.
It's taking it so long.

SPEAKER_05 (20:51):
Oh, did I not play it?
Oh I'm like, what is going onhere?
I was I was playing it andlistening to it.
I didn't realize it wasn't achannel.

SPEAKER_04 (20:58):
Catholic Jamie's listening to a show all on his
own.

SPEAKER_05 (21:02):
I'm this is I'm not liking this setup.
Hold on.

SPEAKER_04 (21:05):
The telegram.
Well, you gotta add it to thescreen, first off.
It's not added.

SPEAKER_05 (21:08):
Yeah, I know, I know.
I'm finding the right spot.
Sorry guys.
Yeah, speaking of boomers, Iknow.
Yeah, yeah.
Nick would have played itfaster, yeah.
He too wasn't too busy.
Never mind.

SPEAKER_00 (21:20):
There's two words together.
But with that that in mind, canI can I ask you to to take us on
a theological journey in termsof beginning with St.
Paul?

SPEAKER_04 (21:30):
Okay, so okay, so now I the I cut it there, and
then the next clip is Scott'sresponse.
So now now what he's asking himabout is Romans 9 through 11.
Okay, now Scott Hahn on the St.
Paul Center website has afour-hour presentation that he's
speak where he's speaking topriests about Romans 9, 10, and

(21:50):
11.
Okay, it is the mostcontroversial of Saint Paul's uh
letters.
This one, these three chapterswhere he gets into all Israel
will be saved.
Now, I have listened to thesetalks several times.
This is not lightweighttheology, it is very deep, where
he's talking about when Paulsays, Will all Israel be saved?

(22:11):
Is he talking about ethnicIsrael?
Is he talking about spiritualIsrael?
He's actually kind of talkingabout both, but the reason he's
talking about both is becausethe northern kingdom is split in
the old testament, where the 10northern tribes break off, and
those 10 northern tribes getdispersed throughout the
nations, and they get mixed inwith the gentiles so much that
the ethnic Israel that isdispersed through the nations

(22:34):
become Gentiles.
So when the new covenant beginsby the Gentile nations
converting, all Israel is saved.
Ethnic Israel, the remnant thatis preserved amongst the
nations.
Okay, so that is what Saint Paulis talking about that the 12
tribes of Israel are reunited bythe new covenant going out to
the nations.

SPEAKER_05 (22:54):
So it's a very, I mean, I'm summing up four hours
of talk into a very, you know, Ihonestly would not have been
surprised if this had turnedinto Anthony Abati's four-hour
summary of Scott Hahn'sfour-hour talk.

SPEAKER_04 (23:07):
Yeah, later on through 11.
I'm trying to, I'm trying tosummarize a very dense topic
into Thursday.

SPEAKER_05 (23:13):
We did three hours on uh on Daniel's based on Han's
three-hour job.

SPEAKER_04 (23:22):
Yes, but I think we did it more exciting.
Um, but it's it's it's one ofthose talks where when I heard
it the first time, like my mindwas so blown because you hear
all the time, yeah.
What do you think that video wasabout the other day, guys?

SPEAKER_06 (23:36):
That was trying to convince everyone.

SPEAKER_04 (23:39):
You hear all the time the Protestants talking
about like, where's the losttribes of Israel?
Are they in Africa?
Are they here?
Are they there?
It's like, no, they were theywere dispersed throughout the
nation.

SPEAKER_05 (23:48):
So that well, unless you're Joseph Smith and you
think that the lost one is herein America.

SPEAKER_04 (23:53):
That's but that's how crazy it gets amongst
Protestants, right?
So, all right, so now let's jumpto the next video.
And the next video is Scott'sresponse to Gavin asking him to
unpack Romans 9, 10, and 11 andaddress the issue of
anti-Semitism because Gavinfeels that the um that there's
this rising hatred for Jews,right?
So let's let's see what uh Scottsays.

(24:13):
And I kind of I kind of clippeda little bit because Scott kind
of goes into explaining all thebooks and talks he's done on
this topic, and then I kind oftry to get to the substance of
what he says.
I don't know why it's so small.

SPEAKER_05 (24:22):
I mean, I got it.
Don't worry.

SPEAKER_01 (24:25):
What demonic in its inspiration, we've also got to
be very careful about labelingpeople anti-Semites, because on
the other side of the spectrum,we have to recognize that to be
a Catholic Christian, to be aNew Testament Christian, does
not in any way cause you toembrace Zionism as the
fulfillment of prophecy.

(24:46):
And so if somebody speaks outagainst a Zionist political
agenda, uh, with whateverconsequences.

SPEAKER_04 (24:54):
Now I want you to so okay, so what what's what I
clipped out I should have leftin was Scott saying to Gavin,
affirming Gavin, in that thereis no place for us to have
anti-Semitism, like St.
St.
Pope Pius XI said, we are allspiritually Semites, right?
Anti-Semitism in the actualsense of believing the Jewish

(25:15):
people are less human, lessdignified, yeah, or like actual
hatred for somebody based on youknow that like that's what he
means by anti-Semitism.
But he almost doesn't entertainwhat Gavin says, and he says,
But I want to get to the moreimportant point that we can't
just be labeling somebodyanti-Semitic if they're
criticizing Zionism, because asa Catholic, there's no

(25:36):
justification to support Zionismas a fulfillment of any kind of
wait, you could put that partout.
No, no, no, he said, okay.
So you can back up a little bitif you want.
I just wanted to give like thepreamble that he was saying
because he does say like there'sno place for anti-Semitism, and
I don't want to seem like I'mI'm editing without giving
context.

(25:58):
But what but also watch howGavin jumps in as Scott is
saying this, as like Gavin jumpsin very nervously as Scott is
saying this stuff, and that'skind of what threw me off on
this.

SPEAKER_01 (26:11):
Back to Gaza or missile strikes and so on and so
forth.
I'm just really cautious abouteven taking one step into the
political arena.

SPEAKER_00 (26:20):
Uh, because I add one extra area.
I mean, thank you so much forsaying that.
I think it was absolutelyessential to be said, and you've
said it.
There's another step which whichyou may not have come across,
but I've been really surprisedat, and that is the the area of
Catholic Holocaust denial, wherethe notion comes that uh the

(26:42):
figures are exaggerated, the thedeaths are exaggerated, but
they're exaggerated by quote theJews themselves in order to
ratchet up sympathy for Zionism.
And and and that, and added tothis, and then this is insidious
argument from silence, that theTalmud has been filled with

(27:07):
Gavin is about to defend theTalmud.

SPEAKER_07 (27:12):
And I don't understand this.

SPEAKER_05 (27:14):
I I yeah I don't either because the Talmud enters
Judaism or long after likeChristianity existed.
Like what there is no reason todefend the Talmud from a
Christian perspective.

SPEAKER_04 (27:29):
It's a strange thing that he's doing here, right?
And he's saying people that evenquestion the narrative of the
Holocaust, they eat and they saythat the numbers were inflated
by the Jews to justify Zionism.
Like I don't I don't know, man.
I I think that you have to takeinto account the amount of

(27:49):
narratives that have collapsedover the past several years,
specifically, especially aftereverybody dealing with COVID,
where they fed us a narrativeand we all saw it was complete
nonsense.
Then you start going back andyou say, What else did they lie
to me about?
So people start questioning the9-11 narrative, and you see that
the 9-11 narrative was very muchused as a as a as a way to get

(28:14):
us into war, right?
So you're like, Okay, well,these narratives are clearly
being used to justify things.
So, yes, people are starting tosay, Okay, wait, what else did
they lie to us about?
Now, this is not evil.
I'm sorry, like to to labelpeople as evil for being for
honest inquiry into things isjust wrong.

(28:35):
And why is this the only area ofhistory that that like we can't
have a discussion on, you know,like like people have a
discussion whether Genghis Khanwas was evil or not, or whether
what he did actually helpedEurope and in Asia, or or or or
how many women he raped because34% of the world population is
somehow related to him by DNA.

(28:57):
And no, I'm just I don't knowtheir action.

SPEAKER_05 (28:58):
No, no, you're right though.
I mean, every we can have adiscussion from either side on
any topic in all of history,except for this one for some
reason.

SPEAKER_04 (29:10):
And my my point on that is the people that are
making that accusation thatGavin is right now are actually
hurting the argument on theirpart because you're you're
making it seem like there'ssomething there that we're not
allowed to look into.
That's and and that's a dangerthat that you guys are getting
into.

SPEAKER_05 (29:28):
So um, so now he goes if the evidence is so
overwhelming, then then itshould be an easy argument to
actually have in discussion andimprove your argument.
Well, when you just shut downthe conversation and don't allow
any discussion on it, it itcomes off as why why are you

(29:49):
doing that?

SPEAKER_04 (29:49):
So now look, like I because it's difficult for us to
do shows like this where youknow we're putting Gavin and
Scott Hahn in the thumbnail, andpeople are just going to think
we're doing gossip, but this isa Very serious topic, and I'm
kind of caught in between thesetwo generations, and I respect a
lot of these people.
Like, I genuinely like Gavin,and I would love to have him on
to have a conversation on thistopic.

SPEAKER_05 (30:10):
One of our funnest conversations on this whole show
was talking with Gavin about howwe smuggled Bibles through the
KGB.

SPEAKER_04 (30:20):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's it's just we're when
I've been telling you guys thatfor the past year I've been
saying to you guys this is goingto be the divide in the church.
We're talking about losingfriendships here because we take
a different opinion on thistopic.
Like, this is where the divideis.
I'm telling you guys, and it'sgoing to get more and more

(30:40):
stark.
We're going to after we playthese clips, we're going to get
into a tweet that Joshua Charlesput out of Benjamin Netanyahu
referring to Rome and the nextwar with Rome that they're going
to win.
We're also going to play a clipof him saying how he thinks
America is the new Rome, whichis something I've been saying
for a very long time.
Um, and it's just you're goingto see this issue is going to

(31:04):
become more and more prominent,and this is going to be the
divide in the church.
It is not going to be so muchover liturgy and things like
that, it's going to be on thisissue, and this issue has to be
understood properly.
And I think that Scott Hahnhandled this entire conversation
properly.
And I'm just telling you guys,from sitting at this man's feet
for this as many years as Ihave, I don't, I've never had a

(31:27):
conversation with him, but I cantell you that from the things
I've learned from him, he wouldsay that because Israel was the
woman that was the whore in theuh of Babylon in the first
century.
Typologically, it will map upthat they will be the whore in
the second coming.
Like it's just typologically howit is fulfilled.

(31:48):
I know how Scott's brain works.
I'm he probably would never saythat, but I can tell you he was
very cautious in thisconversation not to say what
Gavin was trying to lead him tosay.
Gavin kept trying to lead him tosay things, and Scott refused to
go where Gavin wanted him to.
So we'll finish up with Gavingetting into the Talmud stuff,

(32:09):
where he explains this Holocaustdenial, then he defends the
Talmud.
Just watch how Scott reacts.
Okay.
And and and and just understandthat this is not me saying it.
This is not, I'm telling you,watch how Scott reacts and kind
of just diffuses what Gavin justsaid to get into what he sees as
a more a bigger danger thananti-Semitism or people like

(32:31):
what Scott sees as a biggerdanger than what Gavin is
bringing up because Gavin seesanti-Semitism as the biggest
danger.
And what you're gonna hear isScott tell you, no, actually,
the bigger danger is Zionism andthinking that there's a
bi-covenantal theology.

SPEAKER_05 (32:45):
Okay, so let's and I I haven't seen all the all the
clips or all this, but I Iimagine like theologically,
you're right, that that is thethe bigger danger, the bigger
danger in theology is ultimatelymore important than some
questions about a uh you know ahistorical event.

(33:07):
Theology can be dogmatic.
Listen to me, we have to faiththat a historical event will
never be dogmatic.

SPEAKER_04 (33:13):
When I tell you how I'm I want to like, I'm gonna
lead you guys into where this isgoing to go.
Like, Scott gets into the thethe claims that that John Paul
II says about the covenant isirrevocable.
Scott talks about, yeah, ifyou're in the old covenant and
you have not accepted Christ,you are in a burning house.

(33:35):
He gets into Gavin then triesto.
Um we're gonna go through all ofit, but Gavin then tries to lead
him um to to say, like, how hehas such a deep reverence for
for the Jews because of the oldbecause of the what the gifts
they've given to the church.
And and Scott says, no, no, no,there's a disconnect between the
modern Judaism and and thepeople and the old covenant.

(33:57):
There's a disconnect there, andhe relates the synagogue to
Protestantism.
Like, there's so much in this,I'm telling you guys, if you
really actually listen to whatScott says, and look, Scott is
the is going to be super cordialin the things he says, and he's
going, of course, agree withGavin that yes, these are a
danger, but I'm trying to I'mtrying to subtly show you what

(34:18):
the real danger is here.

SPEAKER_05 (34:20):
So you want me to play, or you want to talk about
it?
Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 (34:30):
Okay, we'll read this anti-Christian vitriol,
sorry, anti-Christ vitriol.
And if only you knew it, youwould know that the the rabbinic
Judaism has filled the secretbooks which you've never read
with this this horrible,blasphemous anti-Christ stuff.
And so they are still,therefore, the antichrist
blasphemers, and we must reactto them accordingly.

(34:52):
This is the kind of dark endthat that's been.
How is that the dark end whenit's the literal truth, though?
Anyway, beginning to emerge uhout of Catholic theology.
And so um thank you, first ofall, for saying what you said
about Zionism.
That has to be said.
But it seems to me that thatthat in the way I've described
it, which I which is accurate,there is another insidious end

(35:16):
too, which has which uh feedsoff Holocaust denial and
misrepresentation.
It turns out these Talmudictexts are not at all what
they've said, but they are, infact, rather fringe cul-de-sacs
of theological ambiguity thathave been blown up by the
anti-Semites in order to uhalmost like the blood libel
myth.

(35:37):
They're eating your childrenagain, only it's uh it's a kind
of an in an ideologicalexaggeration rather than a than
a social one.
But it but the intention is thesame.

SPEAKER_01 (35:46):
Yeah, so I must admit to being almost entirely
and blissfully ignorant of muchof what you have just uh rightly
identified as highlyproblematic.

SPEAKER_04 (35:57):
Um other thing Gavin goes through this whole diatribe
about the like Holocaust denial,and then he defends the town,
and Scott goes, Yeah, I don'tknow what you're talking about.
That's literally what Scott onjust said.
He went, Yeah, I don't know whatyou're talking about.
But let me tell you about what'smore important, and he's about
to tell you what's moreimportant than all the stuff
Gavin just said.

SPEAKER_05 (36:16):
To me, his response is is one of two things it's
either him in the most politestway possible telling Gavin
purposefully, like what you whatyou brought up really is
whatever, it's it's you know,it's not a problem, really, or
he's he really is ignorant ofit, which shows that it's really

(36:37):
not a widespread problem becausehe's completely ignorant of it,
because he's not on Twitter,because Scott's not on Twitter,
but I don't think he's ignorantof it.

SPEAKER_04 (36:47):
I think Scott is deflecting answering, like
engaging in this, and I want youto go back a couple of seconds
to to really see what Scott doeshere because he he goes, Well,
you've rightly identifiedbecause Scott is going to be
cordial with with Gavin andGavin.
Like, if you do come across thisand you watch this, like,
understand I'm not attacking youin any way, I'm trying to show
you, like, because you yourevere Scott Hahn as as I do,

(37:12):
and I'm telling you what I'velearned at this man's feet, and
that's kind of the thing we'vebeen talking about on this show,
is is that this is that we arecoming up on something that is
very important, and Catholicsneed to understand the proper
perspective on this, and neverdoes that involve hatred of
Jewish people because they areJewish, never, but you do need

(37:33):
to understand the the thedeception that is going to come
upon us, and when you seeCatholics supporting Zionism,
that is a deception, and theyare going to try and trick look,
it's going to be the Jews acceptthe Antichrist, and it's going
to be droves of heretics.
You cannot be unaware of thedangers of this situation.
So back up a tiny bit just tosee how Scott's kind of just

(37:56):
like, yeah, I don't know whatyou're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 (38:02):
Blissfully ignorant of much of what you have just uh
rightly identified as highlyproblematic.
Um, one other thing that whichshould we should identify on the
spectrum too as really not aviable option for us as
Catholics is a very popularposition that goes under a a
variety of labels, but I I knowit as bicovenantalism.

SPEAKER_04 (38:23):
Okay, so just okay, so now this is what Scott Hahn
is going to say.
So Gavin goes through this wholediatribe about the the the
dangers of Holocaust denial andand the dangers of of
misrepresenting the the Talmud.
And Scott's like, yeah, uh thatthat's pretty bad.
But can I tell you what'sactually a danger?
And that's actually the the ideathat there's a bicovenantal way

(38:46):
to salvation, and that the Jewscan stay Jews and be saved
because they're under the oldcovenant and Catholics, the
Gentiles, are under a newcovenant.
That is the danger.

SPEAKER_05 (38:55):
That is the attitude.
That is the danger to the thesoul of every Jew, right?

SPEAKER_04 (39:02):
I'm not, I'm not this is funny.
This is this is funny, but notactually, Gavin.
I'm a bit of an anti-sea mitemyself.

SPEAKER_05 (39:20):
No, that's at the end of the interview.
Scott just goes in, may SaintSimon of Trent pray for us.

SPEAKER_04 (39:26):
But the blood libel thing, like that sign, we had a
saint in the canon, like this isnot, you know, and it's look, I
don't he he actually did notmake it to conversation, but
yeah.
Listen, listen, um the the thingis Scott's our guy.
That's all I'm gonna tell you.
Scott's our guy, like the thePhilos project ain't getting

(39:49):
him.
He's our guy, I'm telling you.
And I I had faith in him when Isaw the title of this interview.
I had faith that Scott Hahn wasnot going to give in to the
pressure because I've been I'vebeen his he's he's he's been a
spiritual father to me.
So, you know, I know he's alittle soft on certain things we
wish he would be a little hard,but I know he's right on his
theology on this topic.

SPEAKER_01 (40:22):
And there are again a wide spectrum of various
shades of this particular view,but I would say that's exactly
what Paul is not arguing inRomans 9 to 11.
Um, and so to say that you knowyou can be saved by the old
covenant, um, because the giftsand the calling of God are

(40:43):
you're irrevocable, uh yeah, Goddoes not revoke a covenant, uh,
he fulfills it by becoming man,and that's the whole point.
But if you're going to be in theold covenant apart from Christ,
who bore the curses for thebrokenness of the old covenant,
it's like being in a big house,a stately mansion that's on

(41:05):
fire.
So if you're in the old covenantapart from Christ, you got
because you don't want to gethold on.

SPEAKER_05 (41:13):
Well, I I gotta replay that real quick.

SPEAKER_04 (41:15):
Yes, you need to replay that.
If you are in the old covenantand do not allow Christ to take
upon him the curses of the oldcovenant for disobedience, you
are in a mansion that is onfire, you are in a burning
house.
Like this is think think aboutlisten to me.

(41:36):
I'm not I'm not making some I'mnot making a bigger thing of
this than I think.
Like Gavin, Gavin brings a topicthat he wants Scott Hahn to
agree with him on, and Scottbrushes him off.

SPEAKER_05 (41:50):
Uh to give Gavin credit there, I think it was
more he brought someone he inhis mind truly thought
definitely agreed with him on,and had no idea that anyone like
Scott Hahn would disagree withhim on this.

SPEAKER_04 (42:07):
And it but but I when I watched this interview, I
was just like, Whoa, what and Ithink a lot of people would have
watched this and not caught thesubtlety of what happened there,
like that because I I read thecomments in Gavin's show, and it
was like two brilliant mindstalking.
I'm like, you you guys aren'tpeople really aren't seeing
what's happening here.

(42:28):
That that Gavin's trying to talkabout one thing, and Scott's
like, No, no, no, there'ssomething more important here
that we have to discuss, and noone was even talking about it on
Twitter until they all stole theclip I put out.
Yeah, right.
But the funny thing is, nobodywatched this interview.

SPEAKER_05 (42:42):
No, I no, I only nobody watched the I got that
clip because you told me aboutit and I went to look for it.

SPEAKER_04 (42:47):
I called like 10 people and I'm like, you have to
watch this interview, start itat 50 minutes, start it right
because the whole first 50minutes is very good stuff, but
like the this stuff starts atabout the 51 minute mark, and I
was like, What am I watchingright now?
This is wild.
So let's keep going.
Because and and the other clipsI picked, when I tell you, like

(43:09):
the the depth that Scott goesinto with some of this stuff is
unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 (43:20):
And that's the whole point.
But if you're going to be in theold covenant apart from Christ,
who bore the curses for thebrokenness of the old covenant,
it's like being in a big house,a stately mansion that's on
fire.
So if you're in the old covenantapart from Christ, you are in a
crisis because you don't want toget out of the old into the new

(43:43):
by simply abolishing the old,but by seeing how Christ in his
own body died and he rose again.
And so the transformativefulfillment by Christ of the old
in the new is rightlycharacterized by the Greek term
metamorphoshi, where we getmetamorphosis.
So, I mean, just to use a banalanalogy, the butterfly.

SPEAKER_04 (44:05):
Okay, now um because I see people saying so much for
not talking about the Jewsagain.
Like, guys, I'm sorry, this isimportant.
Like, this is this is this ishuge, especially for people to
see it coming from a guy likeScott Hahn because he doesn't it
it's not coming from NickFuentes, it's not coming from
Father Maudsley, it's comingfrom somebody very respected in

(44:27):
in mainstream Catholicism that alot of people have learned their
Catholic faith from.
Like, this stuff is veryimportant.
I'm not I'm not trying to trolland talk about the JQ and
groyperism, none of that.

SPEAKER_05 (44:38):
This is really much more of a theological issue.
And if we do shows and talkabout all the other changes in
Catholic theology that havehappened, you know, with Vatican
II onward, this is one of them.
And like, if those are all umyou know, top or theological
topics that need to be discussedwithin the church, then this

(45:00):
definitely is too, andespecially because this one has
widespread geopoliticalramifications, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (45:06):
That the church needs to get right.
Well, the thing also is likepeople will write off Father
Maudsley like he's a crazyanti-Semite.
Like, I know Father Maudsley, II I know that man has more
charity than just about anypriest I've ever seen.
Like, I know when he's talkingabout things, he is not saying

(45:28):
them to boost his he's not ane-priest trying to boost himself
in the algorithm.
He is literally laying on across and saying, I will die for
the truth.
So you people could write himoff, you could say whatever you
want.
I know that man is willing tosacrifice everything for the
truth.
So I'm sorry, Gavin, Gavin.

(45:49):
Um, gav what what's sad is thatI think I don't know this, um,
but it seems like a lot of thisstuff started coming out from
Gavin when Father Maudley was onCatholic Unscripted.
I don't know if that's whathappened, but it seems like that
that's when he started pushingback on this stuff.
When because when when theyinterviewed him, I think it was

(46:09):
just Catherine interviewed him,but there was so much pushback
on that channel that I feel likeGavin felt like he needed to go
the other way, and and that'skind of where the like the the
genesis of all this stuff isbecause ultimately Gavin is
fighting for what he believesthe truth to be, too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (46:25):
He is a very principled individual as well.

SPEAKER_04 (46:27):
Yeah, yeah, it's just it's just I think that we
need to make sure we get thisissue right.
So that's why you know, likenone of what I'm doing tonight
is to roast Gavin, it's toaddress the ideas of what he's
saying and and show that it'slike this stuff is important.
Let's go to the next clipbecause you know there's there's
some really important stuff inthis interview that if you're if

(46:49):
you're not if you if you're notpaying attention, you kind of
miss it and you think it's justa casual conversation.
No, Scott is talking about somevery important stuff here.

SPEAKER_00 (46:59):
But ask you um an emotional question rather than
everything is theological in onesense.
Um, in the conversations I'vehad with with traditional
Catholics, who of course uhabsolutely say they're not
anti-Semitic, um uh when I say,well, what what what do you

(47:20):
understand the purpose of Jewsto be?

SPEAKER_04 (47:24):
Uh now that the Catholics pause this real quick
because I I have to I have toset this up for a second.
The answer is well, listen towhat he's saying here.
He is he is straw manning a tradposition that is insane.
Like he's saying that when I askTrads what they think the
purpose of the Jews is if theydon't convert, well, they're

(47:46):
rather useless.
I have never heard anybodyanything like that.
The the very opposite, in fact,there is a very big purpose to
the Jews, there's a very bigpurpose behind God keeping the
Jews as a people, and and if youget into Augustine and Scott
talks about this in theinterview, I don't know if I
recorded it, but Augustine,Aquinas, they all talk about how

(48:09):
God preserved the Jewish people,and that's a testament to the
Catholic Church because all ofthe other religions, like all
the pagan religions,disappeared, but God preserves
the people of the old covenantbecause one, they're a witness
to the to the truth of the thebiblical uh to the to the
scriptures, but second, becausethey are still part of the

(48:31):
divine plan, they still have arole in salvation history.
It's not that they are savedunder their covenant, it's that
there is a role for them to playin the end, in the eschaton.
They are going to be, they aregoing to be adversarial to the
Catholic Church, and then therewill be a unification of the

(48:55):
brothers, like we always talkabout on this show.
And they are a witness people tothe truth of the scriptures.
It's like it's it is see.
Uh uh Pope Benedict talked aboutthis.
Pope Benedict talked about howthe fact that they are still a
people, they are um that it is awitness to to God, like it's a
witness to the to the to thetruth of Catholicism,

(49:18):
essentially, like the fact thatthey are still a people.
So um, I I all right, we'llfinish this clip out, but it's
listen to the the straw man thathe's making of Trads here that I
really didn't like, and and Iand I really am curious because
there's something that's goingon with Gavin that uh it's like
he um it's like it'santi-semisodemonic, uh, and then

(49:41):
within a month he's talking withMichael Matt on Trad Inc.
And try like Trad Inc.
has to fight back, uh and thenhe's got Larry Chapp on, and
then then he's interviewingScott Hunt.
Like, I feel like Gavin doesn'tcon he kind of doesn't know who
he wants to be.
Like, do you want to be theremnant with Michael Matt
fighting for the TLM?
Or do you want to be with LarryChapp talking about the
hermeneutic of continuity, or doyou want to I don't I don't know

(50:04):
what you're going for, Gavin?
Like, and I and I want to giveall charity to you.
But I I don't know what what Idon't know because from the from
the outside it it seems likeGavin may fall to what others,
whatever side is popular orwins, no, holds to his beliefs

(50:29):
on Judaism and Zionism.
Yeah, well, I know Michael Mattis very vocal about and he's
very much on the same uh likelooking at it from our
perspective, yeah.
Like Michael Matt is very muchworried about Zionism, he's very
much worried about what'shappening in Israel.
So I'm curious because Gavin waslike one of the headline

(50:49):
speakers at the last remnantconference.
So I'm just I don't know ifMichael Matt's unaware of this
stuff that's going on right now.

SPEAKER_05 (50:56):
I don't know, but I'm wondering if Gavin is
unaware of where everyone fallson this issue.
I think he might believeeveryone is with him on this
issue, and it's yeah, it'speople aren't.

SPEAKER_04 (51:08):
It's a tricky one, and I yeah, I would I would like
to talk to Michael Matt.
Uh he just refuses toacknowledge that I exist.
He's like uh Candace Owen'shusband.
They just, you know, they knowwho I am and they just pretend
ducking you, they know exactlywho I am, they just pretend they
don't, these bums.

(51:29):
Um, no, I I would never sayGavin's doing it for money.
No, nothing like that.
I I I I don't know.
I can't I do not know the man'sheart.
I'm just I know this is I knowwhat's going on here, though.
Listen to the straw man of thetrap position, and then and then
we'll kind of break it down.

SPEAKER_00 (51:43):
What do you understand the purpose of Jews
to be uh now that the CatholicChurch has become the new Israel
and the fulfillment ofeverything?
And the answer is, well, theymust become Catholics.
Well, of course, that's ofcourse we want them to become
Catholics.
We we want them to to uh receivethe blessings of the sacrifice
of our Lord and Savior.
And if they don't becomeCatholics, well, then comes

(52:06):
reply, they're kind of uselessor worse than useless.
And and and there's a kind oftheological contempt that I hear
in this that I think borders onanti-Semitism.
I find myself filled with anaffection towards Jews and
Judaism and um the precursor.

(52:26):
I I I look upon the caterpillarwith with a certain amount of
gratitude and and joy, knowing.
Okay, pause it, pause it becausehere what he says.

SPEAKER_04 (52:35):
I look upon the Jews with an affection as if they're
the the precursor to us.
And now listen to how Scott goesinto this.
Scott Scott talks about thediscontinuity, he doesn't agree
with Gavin.
He he talks about no, there'sactually a disconnect.
Like the the modern Judaism isnot that caterpillar, the

(52:58):
caterpillar that becomes thebutterfly are the apostles and
our lady before theresurrection, like like that and
and and and Abraham and Isaac,like that the that is the
caterpillar.
But what you have in modernJudaism is like uh uh living

(53:19):
according to the flesh, youknow, it's like it's like the
it's like the law according tothe flesh, as opposed to freedom
in the spirit, like so.
Scott gets into this, so he kindof listen to how Gavin sets it
up, and then listen to how Scottkind of dismisses it the same
way he does every other thingthat Gavin brings up.

SPEAKER_00 (53:34):
Well, always the purpose of the caterpillar is
always to give life to thebutterfly, and and at no point
does it become a matter of uh ofdenigrating it.
Can you how would you answersomeone who who, with a certain
degree of barely repressedcontempt in their voice,
suggested there's no purpose forJews unless that's what lawyers

(53:56):
call leading the quote leadingthe witness?

SPEAKER_03 (53:58):
Leading the witness, leading the witness.

SPEAKER_04 (54:00):
What would you say to these people who barely have
an ability to hide theircontempt?
Like, no, Kevin, like do youreally think I have contempt for
Jews, man?

SPEAKER_05 (54:08):
Like, come on, look at like I mean, I don't want to
when you pause videos, you neverknow what face someone's gonna
have, but look at Scott's face,yeah.
Scott's face, like what are youwhat are you talking about, man?

SPEAKER_03 (54:22):
Especially going after transits, it this was so
hard for me to watch.

SPEAKER_00 (54:28):
They became Catholics.

SPEAKER_01 (54:30):
Well, I would say that is understandable, but just
wrong-headed.
Uh, you're you're you're doingthe wrong thing, and you're
trying to argue by rightreasons.
And I would point out you know anumber of things.
First and foremost, since you'reasking me personally and
emotionally, I have so manyfriends who are confident.
I got black friends, yo.

SPEAKER_04 (54:52):
Scott, just I got black friends.
I'm not a racist, bro.
I got black friends.

SPEAKER_01 (55:00):
What they do in enriching the Catholic faith and
enriching our understanding andappreciation, not only for the
law and the prophets, but therich heritage of their own
Judaism is almost indescribable.
But I would also point to umPaula Frederickson, who is a New
Testament scholar who isherself, she is herself Jewish,
but she has written a book onSaint Augustine.

(55:22):
And you could write a similarbook on St.
Thomas Aquinas, because bothAugustine and Aquinas uh really
cherish the fact that God haspreserved Judaism in a way that
you don't find Samaritanism, forexample, in northern Israel,
that it has a prophetic value.

(55:43):
Um, now I'm not convinced at allthat this is what would lead
Paula Fredericks and say, youknow, therefore I'm an
Augustinian Christian.
Of course not.
I mean, she is a practicing Jew,but she recognizes in Augustine,
and especially in ContraFaustum, but other works as
well, uh, that when you become aCatholic like Augustine did, you

(56:06):
end up valuing, treasuring theheritage of Judaism more, not
less.
Uh, it's not going to say, youknow, bring satisfaction to
Orthodox Jews who say, okay, soAugustine didn't want to see
Jews converted.
Of course he does, out ofcharity.
Um and I would say a similarthing is going on in Aquinas,

(56:26):
that the preservation of theJews is a part of divine
providence.
It's a part of a mercifulprovidence.
It's also a sign that we coulddescribe as prophetic.
And so, you know, if if in thefirst century you already begin
to see in Paul's own ministryamong the Gentiles, the
conversion of all Israel offFort Eori, all the more are you

(56:49):
going to await what the fatherswould celebrate by anticipation,
and that is the conversion thatwill bring in a great enrichment
to the church at whatever pointnear the eschaton that God has
appointed.
Um you know.

SPEAKER_04 (57:03):
Um, okay, so the next clip I do, I did, he gets
into the I so yeah, he's talkingabout.
Well, first off, this is this iscorrect.
So you could do a 30-day freetrial, and you could, it's like
a five-part series on all willall Ilgeriel be saved, and it's
phenomenal.
It's an old priest conferencethat Scott Hahn did.
It's slow at times, it's worthsitting through the entire

(57:26):
thing.
Um, so the the next clip, um,and we will get to your
comments.
Rob's been starring a lot of alot of the comments that are
that we're gonna get to.
Um, but the last clip is kind ofwhere he gets into explaining
the divergence of of the old thedivergence of the like rabbinic

(57:49):
Judaism, how it's how it'snothing like what happens like
after the temple's destroyed.
So uh, did he think he was gonnawhat did Gavin think he was
gonna corner the goat on theJews inscription?
I don't I I don't know.
I I don't know if Gavinunderstands this topic properly,
which is kind of why I wanted totalk about this because I I I'm
hoping because in a way itseemed like Gavin wasn't really

(58:13):
listening to this to the thingsScott was saying.
He was waiting to just jump into throw his next point in, and
it's like, no, you have toactually listen to what Scott's
saying here.
This this stuff is he's gettingto something very deep here.
So let's play that last clip.
And uh if you guys can pleaselike and subscribe.

SPEAKER_01 (58:35):
But he points out that uh after 70 A.D., uh,
Jerusalem, the temple, thepriesthood, the cessation of all
animal sacrifice, you havepost-biblical Judaism taking on
the form that we would callrabbinic Judaism or synagogue
Judaism.
And of course, we're familiarwith that.

(58:56):
And at the same time, we wouldsay that Catholic Christianity
is the full flowering orfulfillment of the old, that
there is continuity from old tonew, there is discontinuity,
it's partly restorative, it'salso tremendously transformed,
it's transformative to adapt,you know, Hegel's term

(59:18):
sublation.
I use that in my article in thisbook from Sinai to Rome.
Uh there really is uh atransformative fulfillment.
But getting to the point, whenyou look at the old, the
centerpiece of this is thepresence of God in a sanctuary
with a priest empowered toapproach the altar to offer a

(59:40):
sacrifice.
And this presence, thispriesthood, this liturgy, I
think is central.
It was in the Mosaic Tabernacleat Sinai, it was in the first
temple of Solomon, it is in thesecond temple period as well.
But when you move from the oldto the new and you look at the
transformative fulfillment thatChristianity brings, you would

(01:00:02):
compare this to rabbinicJudaism, uh, as Rabbi Baruch
Levine does in passing.
Because when you look at theHebrew Bible, you don't find the
term rabbi, you don't find theterm synagogue.
And so rabbinic Judaism, in acertain sense, represents
continuity with the religion ofancient Israel, but also

(01:00:24):
discontinuity, because you havenot the presence of God, not the
Shekinah glory, you don't havepriests in the line of Levi
anymore, you have rabbis in asynagogue taking a scroll and
reading from the law and theprophets and proclaiming that in
terms of what we might describeas a sermon, but none of that is

(01:00:46):
really in the law and theprophets.
Whereas Levine points out thatin the Catholic Church, you have
the belief in the divinepresence.
You also have a priesthoodapproaching an altar to offer a
sacrifice.
We call it the Mass.
And so we believe that the oldis fulfilled by the new as we

(01:01:06):
move from the earthly Jerusalemto the heavenly Jerusalem, from
a man-made temple, a temple madeby hands to a temple not made by
hands as the prophets themselvescould foresee.
And so I would say, yeah, thereis a there is a transformation
of biblical religion from theold to the new.

(01:01:26):
But you know, when you look atrabbinic Judaism and synagogue
liturgy, uh, and justparenthetically, this obviously
becomes the blueprint for somuch of what we would describe
as Protestant worship, asProtestant liturgy.
Um, you don't have the altar,you don't have the priest, you
don't have the sacrifice.
But all of this, as I outline inmy book, The Lamb's Supper, the

(01:01:48):
Mass is Heaven and Earth, showsus that in the liturgy of the
saints and the angels in theheavenly Jerusalem, the Amen,
the Gloria, the Hallelujah, theAgnus Dei, uh, the holy, holy,
holy, all of these things arebeing done on earth in the Mass
as they are in heaven by theangels and saints, because there
aren't two liturgies, theirs andours.
There aren't two.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:09):
I must not collect only one in this earthly, but
I'm what what he says, and I'mgonna urge everybody to go and
watch from the 51-minute mark tothe end of the show.
What he talks about is how theJews are living according to the
law and the flesh, and they'retrying and their refusal to
accept God's mercy, like it'slike a stubbornness, it's a

(01:02:31):
stubbornness, it's not the themodern Jews are not the
caterpillar that Gavin isreferencing.
They aren't.
There's a total break.
Like what goes on from thetemple after the temple is
destroyed is Phariseeism.
It's the Pharisees, they're theones who do develop rabbinic

(01:02:52):
Judaism.
And who is Jesus rebukingthroughout the New Testament?
He's rebuking the Phariseesbecause they're hardness of
heart.
They're they're living accordingto the letter of the law, but
not the heart of the law.
They're finding ways to getaround the rules by saying,
Well, technically, we followedit.
And you see that on all theseShabbat lamps that they they
think that you see on on Twitterall the time, where it's like,

(01:03:13):
Well, I can't touch theelectric, but we got this little
flip and we flip it, and look,we tricked God.
That is the the Judaism thatgoes on.
It's like, and and that's alsothe Talmud.
The Talmud is finding these waysto like it's like it's rabbis
like arguing about how they canget around these these things.
But the Talmud does talk aboutsomething important, which is

(01:03:34):
after the after theresurrection, the it's like the
the sh the there's like a ropethat lights up at every time uh
no, it's um so during YomKippur, right?

SPEAKER_05 (01:03:46):
The Day of Atonement, right?
They would have a red string,and if God accepted the
sacrifices in the temple for thesins of the you know of the
people, that red string would bewashed and turned would you know
washed by God and turned white.
The last time that happened everwas prior to Christ's

(01:04:07):
crucifixion.
Yeah, that that that day ofatonement stopped working.
And the Talmud said it stoppedworking approximately 40 years
prior to the destruction of thetemple in 70 AD, which means it
it either stopped working, youknow, it approximately you could
say maybe it stopped in 33 AD,you know, prior to you know

(01:04:30):
Christ's crucifixion, or maybeit was 40 years and stopped in
30 AD during the beginning ofChrist's public ministry.
That that they're not 100% sureon, but it it stopped.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:41):
Yeah, because they didn't have the because they
because they don't have theydon't have the ark of the
covenant during this time,right?
But they still have thishappening, so that like you
still have the presence of Godin the temple, and it's like
okay, we don't have the ark ofthe covenant, but we still God
is still with us, and then onceChrist comes, that stops.
Uh Roy Schumann talks about thisin his book, uh Salvation is
from the Jews.

(01:05:02):
So um, but it's just it's it'sit's the the interview is well
worth listening to.
I'm not I'm not trying to attackGavin in any way.
I just I hope that he actuallypicks up on the the subtleties
of what Scott is talking aboutare the more important matters
here.
That all of this ranting andraving about anti-Semitism, it's

(01:05:24):
like as Catholics, we have tohave a proper understanding of
this stuff because if yourtheology is off on this, you
will get lured in becausepropaganda works really good,
guys.
Like we all fall for it, we allfall for propaganda, and it's
very easy to get to fall intothis idea that there's gonna be
another Holocaust.
Oh my goodness, I don't want tobe on that side of it, I don't
want to be the ones criticizingthis stuff.

(01:05:45):
When there's going to be thingsthat happen soon that will need
to be criticized, they will needto be spoken about, and we're
going to have to speak aboutthem without worrying that
you're going to be called ananti-Semite.
It's it's like if you're notwilling to at least endure that
accusation, what the hell areyou going to do when they tell
you to step on a picture ofChrist's face?

(01:06:07):
Like, if you're not even willingto go, oh my gosh, they call me
an anti-Semite.
Like, who cares what anybodysays?
I don't like I love Gavin, butif he accuses me of being a rad
trad anti-Semite, like so be it.
I I like I don't care.
I don't care.

SPEAKER_05 (01:06:20):
I mean, I don't care.
It's the the whole thing withthe Heritage Foundation and the
whole Shabbat dinner, you know?
Yeah.
The things like that.
Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't besurprised if that becomes more
widespread, where you're whereyou're asked to show solidarity
by going to Shabbat Shabbatdinners and Seder meals and and
all these things.
And you have to recognize asCatholics that we just cannot do

(01:06:42):
that.
We cannot acknowledge a falsereligion, and that's what modern
Judaism is a false religion.
Yeah, and look, this stuff hasinfected the church.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:50):
I mean, this is this is what this is what is
underlying the rot in thechurch.
So when I say this is the dividein the church, this is where it
all stems from.
You go back to the council, andthis is all about this, no
straitate, and then bringing allthese other religions in and all
this stuff, it's all about this.
Because as long as Catholicismis just one amongst many

(01:07:11):
religions and not the one truechurch, then it's just hey,
let's just all get a let's humanfraternity this thing out.
Let's human fraternity thisthing out.
What's the big deal?
Oh, we just we just have todialogue with our neighbor, it's
not going to work.
And the thing is, it's going tobe it's there's going to be many
Catholics that fall away.

(01:07:32):
Like God, Jesus talks about whenI return, will there be faith
left on earth?
We know there's going to be agreat apostasy.
It is going to be over thisissue, guys.
I I I don't know.
Sometimes I get like these weirdinsights and feelings, and I
just they're they're this isjust one of them.

(01:07:53):
Like this is going to be thething.

SPEAKER_07 (01:07:56):
So I wanna go over it.

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:58):
It could be a thing that actually potentially brings
in a lot of Protestants, though,too, right?
Because there are Protestantsthat do recognize um you know
the the the difference and thatdo recognize the fulfillment of
the the old covenant in the new,right?
And and how long before they dorealize that that the Protestant

(01:08:21):
denial of the the Catholicpriesthood is no different than
the the rabbinical Judaismdenial of of of the priesthood
of Christ.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Um, okay, so I want to do Ilook, I so there's too much to
do here to do locals tonight,but I think this is too
important to not talk about onhere.
But I think we should doRecucent, and then I want to get
into Joshua Charles's tweet.
And what I'm gonna tell you isthat what Josh because I talk to
Josh and I spend hours togetherspeaking, and we're I don't I'm

(01:08:53):
never gonna put words in hismouth, but the people that I
respect the most in this in intheology and in this department,
they're on they're all sayingthe same thing.
I am and Josh.
I mean, I'm I'm whatever.
We're gonna read his tweet,we'll go through it, and I'll
try to just stick to what hesays.

SPEAKER_05 (01:09:12):
Probably watch the video first, then read the tweet
in one minute.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:14):
Yeah, but so let's let's do Recucent sellers.
Maybe we'll do so, guys.
We're not gonna do localstonight, we're gonna do this
tonight because this is a goodone and it's and it needs to be
talked about.
We'll do Requisant, then we'lllook at super chats.

SPEAKER_05 (01:09:25):
We'll do so well, let's do super chats first,
finish off this whole topic, dorequisite, and then then move
forward.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:31):
Yeah, so I mean, this is all one topic, though.
Like when we get it, it's it isall one topic, and it's all so,
but yeah, let's do super chatsreal quick.

SPEAKER_05 (01:09:39):
So, um, some of them I have started are not super
chats, but we'll still gothrough them.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:43):
So this shows the power of worldview.
Gavin never suspected Han wasn'tgoing to vociferously agree with
him and then and then defendZionism using complex theology,
which is what Gavin wanted himto do.
I think that's a hundred percentaccurate.
Like, like Gavin led thequestion and thought Scott would
back him up with some deepinsights, and Scott kind of just

(01:10:04):
was like, Look, the deeperproblem here is this.

SPEAKER_05 (01:10:09):
Yeah, uh, this uh this is similar.
The boomer minds can simply notunderstand these things.
The world they live their livesis in is so far is so far away
from where it is now.
That's a good point.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:21):
And like, I think I think I think you have to grant
a little bit of charity to a lotof a lot of the older generation
because of that.

SPEAKER_05 (01:10:28):
So it's it's the same reason why they still say
things like you, you know, ifyou want a house, pull yourself
up by your bootstraps, and allthat stuff.
The the world they grew up in isjust gone, they don't realize
it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:42):
It's not that it's just gone, it's kind of like
built the chaos we're in now.
Like that that kind of mentalityis just like suck it up and just
do what you're supposed to do.
And it's like, look at the worldcrumbling around you, just suck
it up and go about.
It's like it's it's it's justfalling apart.
Uh Han did the exact same thingwith Christopher West when he
tried to get Han to agree withhis cockamine ideas on weird

(01:11:05):
sexual biblical interpretations.
I didn't see that, but I wouldassume that's probably accurate.

SPEAKER_05 (01:11:10):
Um, let's see here.
So we read the one about goingto the St.
Paul's under Digital Library.
Here's a good one.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:18):
So many Catholics hear only enough to hear that
the Jews are our older brothers,not nearly enough here that this
is a brotherhood like that ofCain and Abel.
So we talk about that a lot onthis on this show.
And the Jews actually got upseteventually when they caught on
to what the church was doing bysaying you're our elder
brothers.
So, like they were all for it inthe beginning, and then they
went, Hey, wait a minute, weknow what you mean by that.

(01:11:42):
So, like there's a little bit offriction uh on that topic now,
and they they're not crazy aboutthat anymore.
So, uh, there are four mainenemies of the world: Muslims,
Hindus, Buddhists, and Jews.
We are Catholics, we never bowto anyone except our Lord and
Savior Jesus Christ and ourblessed Virgin Mother, our
co-redemtrics.

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:00):
So that's it for super chats.
Um, so let's do Requisent realquick.

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:06):
Um, Reckusyncellars.com.
Use code based at checkout for10% off in honor of Christ the
King.
So uh Reckuson Sellers is awinery, they are in Idaho.
They are they're in WashingtonState, they're in Washington
State, but they're close toIdaho, right next to it.

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:21):
They are, they are, man.
Some of our listeners from Idolhave got have gone to the
winery, to the vineyard, andlove, which is why I thought
they were in Idaho because ourIdahoan friends uh what do you
call them?

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:31):
Idahoan?
Idahoan, I don't know what'd youcall that?

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:34):
Idaho.
I well, I know how it's spelled,but it is hard to pronounce,
isn't it?
Is it Idahoan?
Idahoan.
We can't pronounce Udahoan.

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:45):
We can't pronounce Regusen, Idahoan.
We can't do any of this.
We're terrible.
So, yes, our friends from Idahowent and visited the vineyard.
They they met the family, theysaid they were an amazing
family.
They are they're great.

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:58):
See if I can get one of those guys on to join us with
Ryan.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:01):
Sure, yeah.
If they want to come on,definitely like they could
sponsor the episode.
Um, yeah, it's Idahoan.
I think I had it right.
So Reggie's and sellers, theyalso have they're also a fruit
farm, they deliver to moststates.
There are some states where theycan't deliver wine, but I think
you can still get the fruit.
They are amazing, they let ustalk about anything we want.
They especially love when wetalk about this topic,
apparently.
I mean, they're right on boardwith us to like drink a bottle

(01:13:24):
of wine as the apocalypse comesand the horror babylon rides the
beast.
Let's go.
We love records and sellers,guys.
Go to recordsandsellers.com, usecode based at checkout for 10%
off.
Tell them that we sent you andlet them know you love avoiding
Babylon and that they sponsorus.
All right, let's do the JoshuaCharles tweet.
This one, man.

(01:13:44):
If you guys haven't seen thisone, Josh, well, we'll play the
video first, but Josh has a wayof presenting the exact same
ideas a lot of people do withoutbeing bombastic.
And he presents them in aserious way where if you're
really paying attention, it'slike, oh, wait, this is this is
wait, the church fathers warnedus about all of this.
So let's play the BB Netanyahuvideo and then we'll uh we'll go

(01:14:08):
from there.
You guys are cool, but I have noidea what's going on.
Well, you kind of have toprobably watch from the
beginning of the episode tounderstand most of it, but well,
actually, he they have been heresince the beginning, so really
you might have to watch sincethe beginning of like three
years ago.
I do try to bring I try to bringthis stuff down to like layman's

(01:14:30):
level because I'm a layman andI'm I'm not that smart.
If I could grasp this stuff, youguys should be able to.
It's it it's not kosher wine, soit's not kosher wine.
I'm sad they don't shipanti-Semitic wine to my state.
Uh okay, here's the video.

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:47):
We want to know what you're reading now.

SPEAKER_07 (01:14:49):
What I'm reading, yeah.
Uh it's a book by uh name ofBarry Strauss.
It's called the Jews againstRome.
Jews against Rome.
What made you pick it up?
Well, we lost that one.
I think we have to win the nextone.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:09):
We want to know what you're reading now.
Talking about the destruction ofthe temple in 70 AD, the Jews
versus Rome.
Well, we lost that one, but wehave to win the next one.
So um, let's let's get into whatJosh has to say about this.
So, from a theologicalperspective, this is an
extremely interesting videoreleased by Netanyahu's press

(01:15:29):
office account on Instagram.
I took the screen record myselffrom their account because I
wanted to ensure it was genuineand not AI.
The traditional Jewishperspective is that the enemy of
the Jewish people, Edom, is nowidentified with Rome, which is
often associated withChristendom, the Catholic
Church, etc.
This identification is becauseof Rome's destroying the temple
in 70 AD.

(01:15:50):
There will be a final end timesclash between the Jewish people
and Edom, in which the Messiahwill defeat Edom.
I found many rabbis discuss thisin my own study of Jewish
eschatology.
This is the more interestinggiven my study of the catacomb
or the restrainer mentioned bySt.
Paul and Thessalonians too,which holds back the coming of
the Antichrist.
The majority interpretation ofthe church fathers is that the

(01:16:12):
catacomb is in some sense theRoman Empire.
This was further refined byvarious fathers, theologians,
scholastics, etc., to indicatesomething connected with the
church.
I personally personally believeit is a preeminently it is
pre-eminently Christendom, andthat Christendom centered on the
Church of Rome, the CatholicChurch, in both its spiritual

(01:16:32):
and temporal aspects, is theprimary thing which restrains
the coming of Antichrist.
Additionally, the fathers areunanimous that the Jews will, at
least at first, believeAntichrist is the Messiah.
See note below.
It's a huge topic that I can'tdo justice to in a short post,
but I've been researching andwriting a great deal about it
for several several years now.

(01:16:52):
I will have no I will have morein the coming months.
Suffice it to say, once thiscatacone is removed, antichrist
comes.
And if the catacomb is in somesense Rome, the Antichrist is
initially received by the Jewsas Messiah.
Well, that's interesting, asthey say.
The convergence of Jewish andCatholic interpretation on this
question, though obviouslyexpressing it from opposite
sides, where apparently theMessiah is one of the Antichrist

(01:17:15):
of the other, is something thatshould not be ignored.
An important note ultimately thechurch fathers unanimously say
that the Jews will initiallyreceive the Antichrist as
Messiah, who will deceive them.
The whole point is that he mustconvince them that he is the
actual Messiah.
But they will ultimately realizethey have been deceived, they
will reject Antichrist, and thenwill undergo a mass conversion

(01:17:36):
to Christ, their true Messiah.
This, I believe, will be thetrue reconciliation between
Jacob, Israel, Esau, Edom at theend of time.
It is also absolutelyfascinating to me that Netanyahu
speaks of losing the last waragainst Rome, presumably
referring to the Jewishrebellions of the first and
second centuries, and the needto win the next one.
I'd be very curious for atheologically literate

(01:17:57):
interviewer to ask him who thisRome is that he seeks to defeat.
Now, I want to play the otherclip of him before we break down
what Josh is talking about here,because he actually tells you
who he thinks who he thinks Romeis.

SPEAKER_05 (01:18:11):
Let me uh give me a second to pull that up.
That's a different tweet.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:14):
Yeah, it's a different tweet.
This is from a few months backwhen Mike Pompeo, or a few a few
years back, maybe when MikePompeo went there, went to uh
went to uh Israel.
Uh here we go.

SPEAKER_05 (01:18:35):
I'll share this tab.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:37):
Okay.
And here we are.
Okay, so now there's an exchangebetween Mike Pompeo and Benjamin
Netanyahu.

SPEAKER_07 (01:18:46):
We had a moving visit today to the wall.
I can't resist repeating this,but I'm going to go louder?
No, that's the loudest.
Uh Pompeo visited uh Jerusalem,but didn't end that well.
But this is a different time.

(01:19:08):
Rome and Jerusalem clashed overvalues with a great tragedy for
the Jewish people.
But the new Rome, the UnitedStates, uses as a new Jerusalem.

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:20):
Now look, you have to think about this.
You have to think about this.
This is something we've beentalking about on this show.
Um the American empire isthroughout the entire world.
We go around, we throw inwhoever we want as a as a as a
you know, we overthrowgovernments, we put our own guys
in all over the place.

(01:19:42):
America is the new Roman Empire.
We rule with an iron fist, weare the the leaders of the
world, like we are the empire ofthe world.
If you look to what Israel doesin the first century, they
collude with Rome to crucify theMessiah.
Israel has its tentaclesthroughout the world.

(01:20:05):
They are the nation that hasdrunk on the blood of the
martyrs, mixed.
If you don't see America as thenew Rome and Israel as the whore
of Babylon, I don't know, man.
I don't know.
Benjamin Netanyahu sees it thatway.

SPEAKER_05 (01:20:19):
I would say we you gotta be careful kind of having
this right after Joshua's tweet.
Because Rome is in the set is inis the church of the remnants of
actual Romanness.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:32):
So look, the Rome in the first century, like the
church is the new Israel, right?
So spiritually, like Christendomwas Rome, right?
But yes, it's the AmericanEmpire is the Roman Empire of
the first century that has notbeen christened, it's not bad,
it's like this tyrannical force,it's the beast that rises up.
So it's the beast that was thatis not now, but then will

(01:20:56):
return.
It's in uh apocalypse 17, 8.
So it's it's the beast that was,is not, and will rise up from
the abyss.
That is what the American Empireis, where the church is the new
Israel, it's it's like spiritualIsrael and modern Israel is
Israel according to the flesh.
It's it's it's a tricky thing tounderstand.

SPEAKER_05 (01:21:16):
What I'm saying is we gotta be people could
misunderstand and think that ifAmerica is the new realm, then
America is the catacomb, andthat's not no no no no, no, no,
no.
What John said that the Romethat the antichrist will fight
against is the church, correct,not America, because America

(01:21:37):
will be subverted by the Jews,by the Antichrist.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:42):
The modern Israel, the Jews, according to the
flesh, will collude with thebeast that returns to persecute
the church, just like they didin the first century, like
that's how it maps out.
It's like the just like theythey colluded with Rome to
crucify them, like they usedRome as a tool to achieve their
goals, correct.

(01:22:03):
Yeah, so they're they're thethey're the whore that's drunk
on the blood of the martyrs, andand they but they but net
Netanyahu and many othersrealize that they didn't subvert
Rome enough the first timearound, and it came back and bit
them in the yeah, it's exactlywhat I think.

SPEAKER_05 (01:22:22):
So now now Netanahu saying we're not gonna make that
mistake again, we're gonnasubvert Rome, what they can see
what they consider to be Rome,again to use as a tool for their
ends, but they're gonna do so ina way where that tool doesn't
then turn around and destroythem.

SPEAKER_04 (01:22:40):
So uh back to Josh's tweet.
Um what are you looking at?
Uh I'm just going back to Josh'stweet.
So from uh so the traditionalJewish perspective, uh, how
okay, so the catacomb I want toget to.
Let's see.
So, more interesting, giving mystudy of the catacomb or the
restrainer mentioned by SaintPaul, uh, which holds back the

(01:23:00):
coming of Antichrist, themajority interpretation of the
church fathers is that thecatacomb is in some sense the
Roman Empire.
So, like you the Roman Empire inin connection with the church,
so like um the catacomb, therestrainer had to do with the
Holy Roman Emperor, Holy RomanEmpire, the Roman Empire, not

(01:23:20):
not Rome, the Holy Roman Empire,like except that is a
continuation of the RomanEmpire.
It's the baptized version of it.
One of them, yes, yeah, like thethe Holy.
So, but what you when thechurch, if the church is the
restrainer, the things that weare seeing happen right now, the

(01:23:42):
weakening of the church, startswith Pope Paul VI laying down
that papal tiara.
Like that is the catacomb, thechurch, the pleasure.
It started before that, I wouldsay.
Yeah, of course, but the thesymbolism behind that is all I'm
saying.
Then you have the council, andthen you start having these weak
documents come out, and you havethe you have pope after pope who

(01:24:02):
are afraid to proclaim the truthof Christ because they're more
concerned with the with the thethe concerns of men than they
are with the concerns of God.
Pope after pope doing this.
I mean, you have Leo doing itnow, accepting a gay couple into
the Vatican today as JamesMartin is doing what he's doing.
Like, this is, in my view, thechurch in its passion.

(01:24:25):
It's like when Christ ismarching to that pillar and and
they're beating him at thepillar.
If you looked on, you'd say,That's not the messiah, there's
no way.
When he's suffering on thatcross, you say, That's there's
no way that's the messiah.
What look, what the church isgoing through right now, it's
like that that's not the churchof Christ, like that can't be
the one true church, but it is.

SPEAKER_05 (01:24:46):
I mean, we if you look at it by the time Vatican
II rolls around, the church isall that's remaining of a
Romanotast that has ex that hadexisted since the Roman Empire,
you know, starting with thereally the Protestant revolt
starts to starts to diminish thepower of the Holy Roman Empire
and the power of the church.
You have the Enlightenmentleading to the French

(01:25:08):
Revolution, where Napoleon goesand ends up actually dissolving
the Holy Roman Empire, then youhave uh World War I, which
destroys all the traditional youknow institutions in Europe and
ends in you have the lastHabsburg, you know, being
dethroned, and even though hewasn't technically uh the a Holy

(01:25:30):
Roman Empire Emperor at thetime, he is the last of the
lineage of it, yeah.
Right, and then you have umWorld War II, you know, of
course, kicks off when someremnants in Europe try to
re-establish a bastardizedperverted version of some sort
of traditional you knowEuropean-ness.

(01:25:51):
Um, so yeah, you can really seethe last 500 years as the
destruction of of Romanitas, andby the time Vatican II rolls
around the church, is all that'sremaining, and that's why
there's been such a war on thechurch since then, on the
church, and it's like so.

SPEAKER_04 (01:26:06):
Even when I was on with the CETEs, I was trying to
say this to them.
Um, I said, like, the I know, Iknow it looks like the church is
completely given up, but it'slike there's still there's still
the protection of the HolySpirit when you see like if it
was up to these men, they wouldordain women.
If it was up to these men,there'd be gay marriage, but

(01:26:27):
there's still something stoppingthese men from doing this stuff.
You still have the the HolySpirit protecting the church
from doing the craziest stuff,and and the world still sees the
Catholic Church as its numberone enemy to get to get these
things through.
Like they well, the church maynot look like Christ does when

(01:26:49):
he's healing the leper.
It's not like the the miraclesare kind of you know, it's not
this miraculous church.
We don't have stigmatist saintswalking around right now.
It's just the church and herpassion.
It's like the church is justgoing through something where
when you look at it, you'relike, I don't know, man.
There's a lot of things I couldlook at and say that can't be
the church, but it's the church,and it's just going through

(01:27:12):
something right now.
And I think all the things thatwe're seeing in the world, and
especially with this questionthat we keep talking about, that
I that we say every episode wedon't want to talk about, but
it's just I'm not talking aboutit because I want to talk about
it, talking about it because I'mreacting to the things like it's
like every time I want to talkabout something else, something
happens where I'm like, I haveto discuss this, man.

(01:27:34):
It's like I don't know, and andI think that conversation with
um with Gavin and and um Scottwas really eye-opening.
Um, it used to bother me thatthe world hated the Catholic
Church and not mine.
Now I feel properly hated.
Yeah, the world will always hatethe Catholic Church.
That's the thing.
And it's like, look, there'sthere's things going on right

(01:27:55):
now where even you as a Catholicare like, what the heck is this,
man?
Like, what is this?
What is this stupid thing withJames Martin?
Like, what is this stuff?
And it's just this it's it'sChrist getting spit on before
the Sanhedrin, is what that is.
It's like the humiliation thatwe're going to go through as
Catholics.
Be prepared, guys.
It's gonna get much worse.
And the thing is, as people aresaying in the comments, they're

(01:28:16):
like, we're gonna look back onthis time of reverence.
Like, God chose us all to bealive right now, like God chose
you to live in these insanetimes.
The saints of old longed to livein these times.
Kind of crazy because like weall long for like the times past
when the church was in herglory.

(01:28:38):
We're not in the time where thechurch is in her glory going and
preaching the gospel to theworld and conquering the pagan
nations and gathering all thingsinto Christ.
It's just not where we are rightnow in salvation history.
Where we are right now is is avery different time.
Like you see what's happening,you see the timidity of our
pope.

(01:28:59):
Pray for our pope.
He's very timid, very, verytimid, and he thinks he can
please everybody, and you can'tplease everybody, and it's like
if you don't stand forsomething.
Things are going to get verydifficult going forward, kids.
It's gonna get tricky, and youryour faith is going to be

(01:29:21):
tested.
You're going to see um you haveto remember this.
Um hang on, let me find it.
I just put it out.
Uh sorry.

(01:29:41):
I I'm looking for the um theBible verse I tweeted before.
Hang on.
I'm sorry guys, I know this isterrible.
But like uh it's it's oh, forthe time is coming when men will
not uh for the time is comingwhen people will not endorse
sound teaching.
Teaching will have itching ears.

(01:30:02):
They will hear they willaccumulate for themselves
teachers to suit their ownlikings.
Like that's where we are.
People who don't want to endorsesound doctrine.
They want to hear things thatmake them feel good.
Oh, this sounds good.
Okay, yeah, let's go with this.
Oh, you just have to love yourneighbor.
Oh, there was what's the bigdeal if the if the two married
homosexual men get confirmed inthe church?

(01:30:23):
What's the big deal?
Let's not use the titleco-redemptrix because that could
scandalize people.
Let's just confirm two gaymarried men and bring them in.
And the gay, the gay man that'scoming in, his his godfather is
his husband.

(01:30:45):
It's gonna get worse.
I just like the thing, the man,we should we should go back and
go through the Benedict.
Uh we're not going to, but theRatzinger interview from this
1969 where he talks before.
I know we have, but it's it'sjust one of those things that's
good to reflect on every year.
So we don't have to do it now.

(01:31:05):
But he just goes in and he talksabout how the church is going to
lose her prestige.
No longer will she be and you'rea thousand away, man.

SPEAKER_05 (01:31:14):
Oh my gosh, you guys have to be kidding me.
So for anyone who wasn't here atthe beginning, uh, Ant's brother
needs minimum 17,000 for a newboiler for his house so that his
kids have hot water and heat forthe winter.
Um where did I put that?
I have it somewhere here.

SPEAKER_04 (01:31:35):
If you if you guys, if you guys just go back and
watch the first five, it's likeseven minutes of the show, and I
and I tell and I just tell apersonal story about why why
we're trying to raise money formy brother.
Um but I just like you guysreally just you have no idea how
much it means to me you guysthat you guys are there for for
us.
It's like um it for first off,it's such a witness to Christian

(01:31:59):
charity.
Like in 24 hours, in 24 hours,you guys did something that will
change my brother's life, likeseriously, and and and the to be
able to give him that gift, Icannot wait.
I'm like I like to keep it asecret from him for this long,
but I just cannot wait to tellhim that I have if any of you
know Ant or have talked to himpersonally or have ever told

(01:32:22):
him, Hey, keep the secret, don'ttell anyone this.

SPEAKER_05 (01:32:25):
You have to know it is literally the hardest thing
in the world for him to do.

SPEAKER_04 (01:32:29):
Yeah, I do have lines.
Like, if you tell me, like, donot mention this on the show,
like, I'll never mention it onthe show.

SPEAKER_05 (01:32:36):
But especially because but keep on the show,
there was a condition there, andhe will go around.

SPEAKER_04 (01:32:45):
No, it's the no the hardest thing is for me to not
tell it on the show if it's atouching story or if it's
something I think will move theaudience.
Like, I'm a storyteller, right?
So the like I love tellingstories.
Read it.
Wait,$800 away.
New HVAC units are so good, butdon't waste one of your three
crimes.
I'm gonna see a little clear.

(01:33:06):
I stopped myself in thebeginning of the show.
I felt it coming.
I was like, I heard I heard itcoming.
The boys started cracking, but Ididn't I didn't shed a tear.
But um he's he's my kid brother,man.
I got you know what I'm gonnado?
I'm gonna I want to send you apicture of me and my kid brother
when we went.
Yeah, send it to me.
I'm gonna send you a picture ofme and my brother.

SPEAKER_05 (01:33:26):
I don't think because the I mean the only
brother of yours I've met hasbeen Joey.
And of course I've seen Dominicbecause he's the TV star.
But I've never uh I've neverseen Mikey.
Especially because uh you're youmade your wife um block me on
Facebook.

SPEAKER_04 (01:33:41):
So wait, but this picture I'm gonna show you, this
is me and my brother at like 19years old.
I'll send it to you on Telegram,right?
Yeah, yeah, send it to me onTelegram.
Alright, I just said this is meand my brother at 19 years old.
I don't even know.
Oh, I've seen this picture.
Yeah, this don't even look likeme.

SPEAKER_05 (01:34:04):
No, it does look like you.

SPEAKER_04 (01:34:10):
Me and Mikey had the same friends.
Um we got in the same troubletogether.
Like I wouldn't, there was apoint in my teen years where
like I had problems with so manypeople that I wouldn't go to a
party unless my brother Mikeywas with me.
Me and my brother Mikey brawledwith like 15 guys one night,

(01:34:32):
just the two of us, and we won.
Like, you have no idea.
My brother Mikey I've heard thatstory, you've told me that.
Yeah, he was so freaking tough,man.
Like, I would go if I wouldn'tgo to a party if he wasn't with
me.
If he was with me, I'd be like,let's go.
We walked in, and I was justlike, I know if I'm getting hit,
he's getting hit with me.
Like, I just had no fear if hewas with me.
I was like, I don't care.
If I got my brother with me, atleast we're getting beat up

(01:34:54):
together.
Young Anthony listened toinstincts, apparently.
I was a wigger, dude.
We probably had like DMX on inthe background or something.
Those American flags in thetrunk.
Um, all right, so wait, let meuh let me see if there's
anything else we could do withthis um with this conversation

(01:35:16):
before we go.
Uh and then and then you knowwhat?
We you know what?
Let's let's go to locals becausewe got we got some stuff for
locals actually.
We are gonna go to locals.
Yeah, we'll do we'll do a halfhour for all locals members.
Like they deserve it.
Um because there's you put thatstory, that New York Post story,
in, and I wanted to talk aboutthat last week.

(01:35:37):
Um, and this is this is aboutthe the father who let his uh
child die in the car.
Um there's there's an aspect ofthat story that we have to talk
about.
Um, and then also um there wasanother one.
Uh you sent a really touchingletter um from one of our from

(01:35:59):
one of our fans.
Uh, we could read that.
We'll do that on locals.

SPEAKER_05 (01:36:04):
If that person isn't on locals, maybe we should read
that now.

SPEAKER_04 (01:36:09):
All right, so let's read that now then.
And then and then we'll go overto locals and we'll discuss the
other things.
So if you guys aren't localsmembers, that's where we we kind
of do more personal stuff and weyou know we kind of let our hair
down a little bit, but uh, andit's usually the more fun part
of the show.
And every time we do a localshow where we're like, we don't
really have anything to talkabout, we wind up leaving, and I
get a thousand messages ofpeople just going, locals the

(01:36:30):
best show I've ever seen.
So uh, dear Anthony and Rob,I've been following you both on
Twitter for a little while, andI just recently started
listening to your shows.
Thank you for the work thatyou're doing.
You managed to address seriousissues while still keeping the
mood relatively light in amanner that is greatly edifying.
I particularly appreciate youracknowledgement of the problems

(01:36:51):
facing the younger generation.
That said, these are incrediblydark times.
I'm 27 and I'm married withthree children.
I'm not Catholic, but I believeCatholicism is true and I'm
praying about converting.
I would appreciate your prayers,particularly from for my wife,
should you find the time.
My wife and I currently rentrooms from my in-laws.
We are blessed in that regard,but we have no idea how we'll

(01:37:13):
ever be able to afford a home orour own or own for of our own
for our family.
We live in Rhode Island on theMassachusetts border, where my
wife's family has been sincetheir arrival in the Mayflower.
And it ooh uh and it looks likeand it looks like we'll likely
have to leave all that heritagebehind someday to make it

(01:37:34):
financially elsewhere.
This troubles me because, inorder for my parents to make it
financially, my family had toleave our home, an extended
family in Wisconsin and move toPennsylvania when I was 12.
Consequently, I feel as if Ibelong nowhere, have no real
home, and unless somethingchanges drastically, my children
will grow up with the samefeeling of rootlessness.
As you are fully aware, most ofthe young men in my generation

(01:37:55):
feel stuck in the same hopelesssituation.
At least I was blessed enough tobe able to get married.
Last year, it looked like Mr.
Trump was on track to try toturn things around in a real and
lasting manner after winning theelection, but the last few
months have been one openbetrayal after another.
And now feels as if he is openlyspitting in our face.
When it comes to the issueswe're facing, housing costs,

(01:38:16):
unemployment, mass immigration,etc., the older generation is in
general seem to view the youngmen of my generation as a bunch
of losers who just need to getour act together.
I won't deny that most of us aredegenerate and extremely sorry
excuses for men, but a lot of usdo, in fact, see the cultural
and moral decay around us, theresults of our society turning

(01:38:37):
its back on Christ, the failuresof our fathers to be strong,
faithful men, and we desperatelywant to change.
Despite the terrible economicsituation in the world today,
I'm seeing more and more couplesaround my age choose to have
bigger families, and they're noteven Catholic, just about
Protestants.
We are trying to work hard tosupport our families and for
their for our efforts, we arerewarded with roadblocks and
road roadblock and roadblockfrom our government.

(01:38:59):
Hatred from the immigrants whocare nothing for us or our
heritage, even as they reapenormous benefits from money
taken from us, and worst of all,derision from our elders who
should be supporting andmentoring us.
As I previously stated, I ampraying seriously about becoming
Catholic, but the situation inthe church seems to be just as
bad as it is elsewhere.
This does not not deter me fromconverting.

(01:39:21):
Far be it from me to criticizethe hierarchy as a non-Catholic,
but the bishops and cardinalsappear to exist in some sort of
fantasy world, impervious to thedire situation in the world
today.
Judging by their actions, theyseem to actively want to want
the destruction of our country,livelihoods, and heritage.
Uh, I've I've heard statementsfrom some of them about how
migrants ought to be treatedwith dignity, which is true, but

(01:39:42):
I have yet to hear from any ofthem about how mass immigration
is currently destroying mygeneration's ability to provide
for our families.
They don't seem to care.
In short, well, I don't knowabout in short, but the older
generation seems to despise us.
Our president has demonstratedthat he does not care about us.
I mean this sincerely when Iask, do the Catholic bishops
hate us too?
I apologize for this wrong,long, rambling, depressing

(01:40:04):
email.
I just don't know what to doanymore, and none of the men my
age know what to do either.
I'm going to be doing a lot offasting and praying going
forward.
Our situation seems to becompletely hopeless, and God
himself is the only one who canchange it now.
Our society deserves to bedestroyed for our wickedness,
but maybe if we repent, he'llshow mercy on us as he did
towards the Hebrews when theygave themselves to over to

(01:40:25):
idolatry.
Maybe not.
Thank you again for all you do.
I respect you both tremendously,sincerely, Ethan.

SPEAKER_05 (01:40:31):
First off, everyone pray for Ethan and his wife and
their possible conversion.

SPEAKER_04 (01:40:37):
Um, and also just like when I when I get when we
get messages from young guys,man, it's like it just lights me
up that like there's not muchthere's not who was so it was
Joe Enders who was talking aboutit today, right?
Just like the the bishops, man.

(01:40:58):
They're just in a differentworld.
They're just they don't have aclue what is going on in the
like the hearts of the neverneeded to talk for the most
part, right?

SPEAKER_05 (01:41:09):
I mean, and not not to not to mean this in like a a
bad way because um because weshould care for our priests, but
priests and bishops they're provthey provide for.
I'm not saying they make a lotof money, but they get housing
and health care, and they don'tobviously get married and they
don't have to worry about kids.
And and I'm not a lot of priestsknow the struggles that we all

(01:41:33):
go through and and care aboutthem, yeah.
But they they cannot know themand feel them in the way that we
do.
They it just isn't possible.
Just like how I I I mightacknowledge how difficult it is
to be a priest, I will nevernever know it in the same way a
priest knows it.
Yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_04 (01:41:50):
The the the the thing is they just uh have
completely abandoned young men,the church.
Like the church has justcompletely abandoned young men,
they don't care at all aboutthem, and it's so dumb on their
part because the world isevangelized by men.
Christ chose 12 men to be theapostles for a reason.

(01:42:13):
Because if you don't win thehearts of men, you don't win the
world.
Like the so much of what we'regoing through is because they've
just let women take the lead inall of these things.
Every parish is run by women,they they've just completely
abandoned young men.
You guys want to know why theseyoung Catholic men are flocking
to Nick Fuentes?
Because he talks to them and heactually understands their

(01:42:35):
problems.
You're all wondering, oh mygoodness, what are we gonna do
about this guy?
This guy's actually talkingabout the crap they're facing
while you guys are off popknobbing with your Apple teenies
at the end.

SPEAKER_05 (01:42:45):
Not just talking about it, yeah.
Whatever you think about him andsome of his antics and whatnot,
listen to him.
He sounds like he cares.
I've never connect.

SPEAKER_04 (01:42:56):
I don't know, but turnaround on anything like Rob
shut up.

SPEAKER_05 (01:43:01):
I definitely don't have I I definitely haven't been
watching a lot of Instagram.

SPEAKER_04 (01:43:05):
Listen to him lately.
I when I tell you guys, like Robused to be he because Rob's
initial instinct on anything isI don't like it.

SPEAKER_05 (01:43:12):
Like it's that is my default setting.

SPEAKER_04 (01:43:14):
It's his fault modus, I don't like it.
I don't like him, I don't likeit.
But me and Jason would keep likesending over like funny clips
and then funny, and now all of asudden Rob's like, Hey, I've
never seen this, and it's likeNick ranting about Catholicism
and like not ranting, giving animpassioned speech about about
Christ the King, and yeah, andRob's like, All right, maybe I

(01:43:36):
maybe I judge this guy a littlequickly, it's pretty funny.
But listen, he's got his crazythings he said, but you know,
he's like when I was in my 20s,if you guys have had a
microphone in front of me in my20s, oh my goodness, you have no
idea.

SPEAKER_05 (01:43:48):
If if you had a microphone in front of you in
your 20s, you definitelywouldn't have one in front of
your face now.

SPEAKER_04 (01:43:52):
No, not even a chance, not even a chance.
I have a one I have one in frontof me now when I worry about the
things I say, so and I I reallyjust don't think the older
generation gets like the the theirony, the irony, the ironic
humor of the younger generation,where I I always thought that
humor was kind of funny anyway.
So, like I remember when wefirst started doing this show,

(01:44:14):
even when we talked to Trentabout it, like when we had Trent
Horn uh come on, we were talkingto him, and he was really
worried about the ironypoisoning.
And I was like, I don't know, Ikind of find this stuff pretty
funny.
Like, I don't know if I'mdesensitized to it, but I think
they're hilarious.

SPEAKER_05 (01:44:29):
It it does it wears on me a little in general.
Um and like some of theintentional irreverence around
certain things, like I said,wears on me a little, but I
guess I understand that it'sbeing used as a tool, really,
right?
To break down the and they'vethey did a pretty good job, man.

SPEAKER_04 (01:44:47):
They've broken down some crazy barriers that were
up.
But uh Ryan says, uh, young menare starving for authenticity
and truth.
They spent most of their livesbeing lied to and
condescendingly attacking theirexistence.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't know, man.
I feel I uh because I rememberlike when the zoomer humor first
started coming around, I waslike, these kids are funny, man.
When they like even like the thethe texting, the way they would

(01:45:10):
like calling everybody king, andlike the texting has even
changed since then, but it wasjust kind of fun, and my kids
were like beside themselves thatI knew like Gen Z texting, they
were like they were like losingtheir minds.
Um, did somebody just say it'sat 176?

SPEAKER_05 (01:45:27):
176.
Oh my 17631, Aunt.

SPEAKER_04 (01:45:34):
All right, stop it at 18 though.
I don't want I don't want anymore.

SPEAKER_05 (01:45:36):
You can't stop it, you're the one in control.

SPEAKER_04 (01:45:38):
Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna shut it down.
Stop it at 18.
I'm gonna stop it at 18 becauseuh maybe I should let it go to
20, just for a car for him.
For not for me, for him.
Like, because if we could if wecould get him a car.
This kid, this oh man, I can'ttell you guys what he's gonna
how he's going to react.

(01:45:59):
I can't wait.
I can't wait to tell him.
Like, this is like I'm moreexcited for this than I was for
my kids on Christmas morningbecause I know it's
life-changing.
It's not it's not getting yourkids their first snowboard or
something.
Like, this is no a good a goodboiler literally lasts 20 years,
like you're setting them up forit's going to be like uh a video
where they like they they takethe person away and then you

(01:46:22):
come back and redid their houseor something.
Like, that's the kind ofreaction I'm that he's going to
have from it.
So um, all right, let's jumpover to locals.
We'll do that New York New YorkPost story because I I have some
things to say about that,especially for young men.
Like, you guys really shouldhear what I have to say about
this because this this fatherleft his daughter in the car,
and she was a toddler, and shedied.

(01:46:45):
And the father just took hislife.
And there's a reason he took hislife, and it wasn't just because
his daughter died.
And I want I want to get intothat.
So, um, all right, guys, thankyou so much, man.
This is a very long YouTubeshow.
We usually only do an hour.
I appreciate all of you guys forsticking around.
Um this was a this was a this isa good show, I think, because um

(01:47:09):
sometimes you don't know likewhat you're gonna talk about,
and then some like I t I textedRob before the show and I said,
This is gonna be a really goodone tonight.
Like I I just I just knew itwas, and uh when you see an hour
and 45 minutes go by and you'relike, holy cow, I can't believe
that much time went by.
That's how you know you had agood one.

SPEAKER_05 (01:47:24):
So remember the times when we would only have 13
minutes left to talk on locals,right?

SPEAKER_04 (01:47:30):
Because of the two-hour limit.
We had a two-hour limit.
Yeah, we got a little longerthan that.
So all right, we're gonna goover the locals.
We're gonna do a short onethere, probably be like 20, 25
minutes, but I want to talkabout that story.

SPEAKER_05 (01:47:39):
Okay, I'm just gonna cut us off because that will
make this quicker.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (01:47:42):
No, see you guys on Tuesday.

unknown (01:47:48):
Okay.

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