October 3, 2025 • 64 mins
A single viral moment can do what a shelf of encyclicals can’t—and that’s exactly what we unpack. A papal quip about the death penalty, a glossy “ice blessing” clip, and days of Twitter crossfire reopened old wounds about the “seamless garment” and whether the Church is speaking with a clear voice. We talk frankly about why many Catholics who lived through John Paul II and Benedict bristled at the language of “inadmissible,” how prudential judgments differ from absolute moral norms, and why it matters for trust in the Magisterium. No strawmen, no gotchas—just the real stakes underneath the noise.
We also get honest about the rift between trads and normies. Converts often defend the papacy out of genuine gratitude for authority after Protestant fragmentation. Trads speak with urgency that can read as judgment, especially online. We explore how form shapes faith—why the quiet gravity of the Latin Mass naturally invites reverence, dress, and silence—and how Novus Ordo communities can cultivate the same without culture wars. Along the way, we ask hard questions about optics: when Catholic leaders cozy up to climate theater, do we risk laundering ideology that sidelines the unborn, the family, and subsidiarity? Stewardship of creation is good; ceding our moral voice to technocratic agendas is not.
What do we do next? Steelman the other side. Drop the labels. Seek clarity from Rome that upholds the unique horror of abortion while acknowledging legitimate debate on the death penalty. Build locally—beautiful liturgy, solid catechesis, and real friendship travel further than hot takes. If authority wants trust, it must choose precision over vibes. If we want renewal, we must choose reverence over rage. Hit play, then tell us where you stand and why—we’ll read and respond. And if this conversation helped you think more clearly, subscribe, share the show, and leave a review so more people can find it.
Take advantage of Recusant Cellar's "Christ the King" sale by heading over to https://recusantcellars.com/ and using code "REXCAELORUM" for 20% off at checkout!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:11):
Thank you very much, Holy Father and the Vatican, for
inviting me here to this veryimportant event.
I say important event because,as you've just heard, together
we can do it.
Together we can accomplish ourgoal.
(00:33):
The Catholic Church has 1.4billion members.
That power.
(00:54):
And for that to be loved in ourmovement.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06):
We could retake both Constantinople and Jerusalem in
a single afternoon.
SPEAKER_05 (01:13):
He's not wrong.
Um, okay, it's happy.
We gotta mean.
SPEAKER_03 (01:18):
Yeah.
That was to me, he's like, isthis all right?
Doesn't make fun of anyone.
I'm like, yeah, you'll do.
SPEAKER_05 (01:28):
Um, I have to I don't know if it's my internet
or yours.
Um what?
Uh you're jumpy to me.
Now you're now you're better, Ithink.
No, you're frozen.
I don't know.
I hear you fine, but you'reyou're jumpy on the screen.
Is it just me just for me, guys?
Can you guys see Rob fine?
SPEAKER_03 (01:48):
Is everything we are we we do have a storm right now,
so that could be it.
SPEAKER_05 (01:52):
Yeah, you sound a little like underwater a little
bit, but um uh yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (01:57):
That's just because I wish our religion was actually
that big still.
SPEAKER_05 (02:01):
Rob's fine.
Okay, so it's just but you guyssee me fine and I'm moving fine
and everything's fine.
You you see me and hear me fine.
SPEAKER_03 (02:12):
Uh yeah, yeah, I see and hear you fine.
SPEAKER_05 (02:14):
All right, all right, that's all it matters.
All right, you're fine now.
SPEAKER_03 (02:16):
Okay, it might just be your computer being slow or
something.
SPEAKER_05 (02:18):
That's what I mean.
I didn't I couldn't tell if itwas just like like lagging a
bit.
Um man, the uh I I I hate thatthis is what's in the news, man.
Like I hate that this like Icould not figure out what um
like I got on Twitter this okay.
Let's back up a little bit.
(02:39):
When Leo dropped the the wackycomment, right?
Like when it first happened,like we had that conversation
about what it was and stuff, butthen the next day I had so much
fun on Twitter, like it feltlike old times, it was like this
nostalgia from 2018.
SPEAKER_03 (02:58):
I'm uh like getting our band back together.
SPEAKER_05 (03:01):
Yeah, it's like we're getting the band back
together.
It felt like Trad Inc was soback, everybody was mad, and it
was like I had so much funyesterday.
Um, even watching Marshall'sshow, like I haven't I haven't
really watched much Taylorlately, you know, I just was so
busy and got so much going on.
And watching his show, it waslike if it had like that
(03:22):
nostalgic feeling, like likeTaylor was he's like, you know,
man, I'm just I don't know.
It was it was it was yes, I doenjoy this way too much.
I don't actually enjoy that thePope said it, it was it was
nostalgic, it was nostalgic,that's all it was.
Like it had like that thatfeeling of like 2018, like we're
(03:43):
all we're all mad about the samething, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (03:45):
But it also then so then I wake up today and I'm
reading everything, and I seethe Pope's planers come back,
and I'm like, I don't know if Icould do this again, like I just
don't know, especially after afew months of like kind of you
know making nights with all ofthem again, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (04:06):
Like relative peace, you know.
It was like it was just so likeI wake up this morning and I
just start seeing the Pope'splanning, and I'm just like, oh
no, I don't think I could dothis again.
Like, I just don't know if Ihave it in me to go through this
again.
Um, and it was it was funnybecause yesterday, like the
whole lead up was funny becauselike we had the show talking
(04:28):
about trading and the mad trads,and then all of a sudden this
thing happens, and like it wasjust kind of like almost like a
storyline to it where we werestarting to talk about it, and
then this thing happened, andthen it it had a story dynamic
to it where it just all brokeout and everything was fun.
And I had a lot of fun yesterdayon Twitter, and then waking up
and seeing the Pope Spleenerstoday, I'm just like, okay,
(04:52):
there I don't like the term PopeSpleener.
I I they're just gaslighting andliars, they're just gaslighting,
right?
So they're the thing is I alsodon't want to um like I want to
I want to see if we can presentwhat it is because it's not just
(05:12):
this papal animosity.
Um, I starting to thinkAnthony's some kind of chaos,
and I am a chaos, I like tocause chaos and then bring
everybody together.
It's a gift I have.
Um, no, but I even spoke to Ispoke to Wagner.
Um I spoke to Wagner today.
I also spoke with uh KeithNestor today.
(05:32):
Um like there's gotta be a wayfor these conversations to
happen where because you youlike that guy, Shag Bark, like
he that writer.
And like he's interesting, he'sinteresting, but he put out a
post about um the the thereactionary um what what did he
(05:57):
say, man?
He he said something like um thehot take papal commentary.
Uh there was just too much moneyin it, and these people just
couldn't resist, like justputting it ironic for someone
who makes money solely off ofwriting and Twitter, and hot
takes, like that's his soleincome, right?
SPEAKER_03 (06:15):
So it's like yeah, exactly right.
The his hot takes lighting toliking to eat garbage, right?
SPEAKER_05 (06:24):
So it was a caricature that he had in his
head of Trads, and I I want totry to explain, especially to
Pope Splainers, somethingbecause a lot of these guys are
converts and they convertedunder Francis, and they don't
really understand the historyspecifically of what Leo said
(06:44):
and why it had so much it justit was like explosive what he
did because they may have heardthe term seamless garment.
But if you were a Catholicduring John Paul II's papacy and
uh Benedict's papacy, there werebad actors that were in the only
(07:07):
ones using the term at thatpoint were bad actors, were bad
actors.
This term seamless garment.
Okay, now this garment thisseamless garment idea is what it
sought to do was put moralquestions like uh the church's
treatment of immigrants and umand the death penalty on the
(07:29):
same level of morality asabortion, and they were doing
this not because it would it wasit was other it was anything,
right?
It was uh character core everanything that they could throw
in as a life issue, and it wasmeant government welfare, you
know, meant to supportgovernment welfare vehicle for
prelates and clerics to supportleftist politicians.
(07:53):
That's all it is.
So it's like a way to fomentrevolution in your country
because you had under John PaulII, John Paul II was so clear on
the abortion issue that youactually, as a Catholic, it was
like well known you could notvote Democrat as a faithful
Catholic because of the lifeissue.
It was like like for all JohnPaul II's faults and the things
(08:15):
that people criticize him for,he was a stalwart defender of
life.
He really was.
Now he does start the process ofchanging the teaching on the
death penalty, right?
SPEAKER_03 (08:27):
But never at any point does he put it on the same
level as abortion, nor does heever say it's morally
inadmissible or unacceptable oranything like that.
SPEAKER_05 (08:38):
John Paul II is talking about like in the modern
world, we have better prisonsystems, and that you know, it's
like the he and he had seen twototalitarian states misuse the
death penalty, yes, and and andlook, the the thing is, I always
have said the best argumentagainst the death penalty is
(08:59):
when like it would be a corruptgovernment um convicting an
innocent man, right?
Like that is the only likelegitimate argument against it,
uh where an abuse of power couldput someone to death who didn't
who shouldn't have been put todeath, which is even then that's
that's just pro a prudentialmatter, yeah.
(09:19):
Right, but it's still like thebest philosophical argument
against it, in my opinion,right?
But to put the the murder of aninnocent child, a sin that cries
out to heaven, on the same levelof moral culpability as the just
punishment of a murderer,rapist, like something like
that, it's just preposterous,right?
(09:39):
But the but it the the problemis that the the situation was
loaded because under John PaulII and Benedict, both of those
popes had our back against theseamless argument, the seamless
garment argument.
So a lot of these Catholics,when they heard Leo say that,
there's all of this all of thiscomes with it.
(10:02):
So these are people who livethose two pontificates.
This is a po, these arepost-conciliar popes, these
aren't even pre-conciliar popes.
SPEAKER_03 (10:09):
And you you have to under people have to understand
who created the term.
The term was created by CardinalBernadine out of Chicago, who
was a well, one, he was thementor to a certain Cardinal
Theodore McGarrick, and he wasthe protege of Cardinal
(10:30):
Spellman.
Now we all know who McCarrickis, right?
The most notorious sex abuser inprobably the history of the
Catholic Church.
Spellman is widely believed tobe one of the four cardinals who
Belad said was a communistinfiltrator, and Bernadine
himself is accused of raping aneight-year-old girl on an altar.
(10:50):
Yeah.
So these are the people who whocame up with that term and used
it against these are legitvillains, villains that came up
with this, right?
SPEAKER_05 (11:01):
And not the term, the the the well, the term in
the idea, of course.
The term, the idea, all of it.
And we had two popes who wereagainst this stuff, okay?
And the whole purpose of it wasjust so that they could support
liberal politicians.
Exactly what Supic was doing.
SPEAKER_03 (11:15):
Yes, Supich giving Dick Durbin this award was
specifically the protege ofMcCarrick, and hence a protege
of Chicago, and his excuse wasgoing to be well, we're gonna
use the seamless garment ideahere.
SPEAKER_05 (11:29):
You can go and get but the idea is look, maybe
Catholic Cardinals should not begiving awards to any politician
because I have no more supportfor Republican politicians than
I do for Democrats at thispoint.
Like that, so um look, I'mwatching this conversation, and
yesterday I see who's that kidCatholic Christian that we went
at it with.
SPEAKER_03 (11:47):
He does that channel Eric McCabe.
Eric McCabe.
I guess he went after Marshallagain.
SPEAKER_05 (11:51):
He went after Marshall, right?
And it was such slop.
Uh the comment would be lessexplosive if it wasn't in the
context of justifying the givingof an award to a rabbit, but
that's a that's the point,right?
Like that's the whole point ofit.
So Eric McCabe does the video onMarshall yesterday, and I'm
like, all right, I'm I'm goingto try and listen.
(12:14):
And he's he's going throughEvangelium Vitae, John Paul II's
uh, you know, the gospel oflife, and he's trying to put
he's pushing the seamlessgarment, Eric McCabe.
And then when Taylor is talkingabout the death penalty, he's
like, and he's got his neoconpolitics, he's just a neo eric.
(12:40):
Listen to me, this is not aboutpolitics.
No, it has nothing to do withpolitics.
For me, when I came in thechurch, when I like reverted to
my faith, a big part of thereason I reverted to the faith
is because of the church'steaching on birth control.
Seeing the church's teaching onbirth control and that it didn't
(13:01):
cave to the pressure, it waslike it proved infallibility to
me.
It was like this thing where Iwas like, holy cow, like the
church really cannot fail onmorals.
On faith and morals, the churchhas it right.
Now, if you have these previouspopes all saying, including John
Paul II, I mean, it startsgetting a little bit different
(13:23):
under John Paul II, but it'sunder John Paul II, too, where
popes are saying the the deathpenalty is morally licit, but
under these conditions, we'resaying different, right?
But then under Francis, Francisstarts using this language of
inadmissible, and he startsmaking it like it's
intrinsically evil withoutsaying intrinsically evil.
(13:44):
And he changes the catechismincites only himself, and so
yes, so there's all of thesethings that are happening where
the what Marshall's trying tosay is look, if you're going to
say the church cannot err onfaith and morals, but then the
church changes its teaching onfaith and morals.
What you're saying is the churchhas been wrong for 2,000 years,
and that kind of makes the wholesystem collapse.
(14:06):
That's why this is a big deal.
This is also a 20-year-old10-year-old teaching, as opposed
to 2,000 years of churchhistory.
SPEAKER_03 (14:16):
So, like you know, it's a direct contradiction,
it's not a small development,you know, like JP2's was.
Um, it it just turned into adirect contradiction overnight.
SPEAKER_05 (14:28):
So the the people making a big deal of this.
I'm I'm just asking the Pope'splain is to actually hear the
argument here.
This is this is a big deal, andto be gaslit and say, like what
Pine sap said Pine sap says Ihave zero respect for a logging
(14:48):
the Pope.
We get it, Judas.
Daddy didn't show you enoughlove as a kid, and now you gotta
make it make it the vicar ofChrist problem.
Like, shut up, seriously, dude.
Shut like you've been Catholicfor two years.
Are you serious?
What do you know about this?
Like, I I I like you, dude, butlike, come on, stop with the
gaslight.
You don't even know what you'retalking about.
(15:09):
It's gay, stop it.
I'm I'm sorry, like I'm I'm I'mnot trying to like start a
fight, but like this is it'sespecially because you know that
if the Pope said something, uhwell, he did say something about
immigration, right?
SPEAKER_03 (15:26):
And you know that the that Pine sap and the
Groipers would say, Oh, butreally, we about that, you know,
the church is this and this andthis.
It's like, well, the church alsosays a lot freaking more about
the death penalty, but you saywe have to follow the Pope on
that little hippocritical much.
SPEAKER_05 (15:42):
I'm I'm not I'm not I'm not even saying you can't
hold that like you're againstthe death penalty.
Like, you could be against thedeath penalty.
I don't even care, like it'sfine.
You can be against the deathpenalty.
Sure, we have bigger things toworry about, honestly.
Like, I don't care what yourpersonal opinion is on the death
penalty.
What we're talking about is thechurch changing the teaching
from 2,000 years of saying notonly is it licit, but like God
(16:04):
has ordained this from heaven,essentially, that the that the
that the public authorities havethe right to do this, and then
all of a sudden the church islike, nope, this is
intrinsically evil.
It's like you cannot do that,and just expect people to just
be like, okay, no problem.
This is you know, nocontradiction here.
This is this is the stuff thatthe Trads are are are trying to
(16:25):
have the conversation about,right?
And then to have these guys whoconvert under Francis, and I
understand.
Look, I uh here's the thing I dothink guys like Pinesap, even
Eric McCabe, like I do thinkthese are guys of goodwill.
Like, I do understand theirinstinct is to defend the
church, defend the papacy.
(16:46):
They come in from Protestantismwhere there's absolutely no
authority, and then they comeinto the church and they just
want to be good Catholics.
Like, I'm not ascribing bad willto these people, I'm not putting
motives on them.
I think their motives areactually good, their intentions
are good.
But you have to hear theargument from the other side and
(17:06):
understand it.
It's it's it's not just that wewant to trash the Pope.
That too, like I'm like, I'mnot, I'm I don't pearl clutch
over language, I really don't.
I don't pearl clutch on thelanguage, but don't drop the F
bomb in the same sentence you'respeaking our Lord's name.
Like the things like that arelike, come on, like there's this
(17:28):
etiquette.
Like, I don't like I'm not Idon't care if somebody says the
F word, I'm a constructionworker, I hear it all day long.
I'm not gonna cringe becausesomebody said the F word, but
you don't say the F word in thesame sentence that you're
talking about, especially whenyou're typing something out,
like you have when you're typingsomething out, you have the time
to put together a real sentence.
SPEAKER_03 (17:48):
Yeah, you know, you can't say it's it was out of
habit.
No, it wasn't out of habit.
You typed it, but I don't itdidn't just blurt out of your
mouth.
SPEAKER_05 (17:54):
And like I said, like I don't pearl clutch over
somebody saying shit orsomething like that.
Like, I don't care, it's notit's it's the context you're
using it in.
And I tried to talk to himprivately about that.
I'm like, look, it's just it'sjust it's just bad uh because he
dropped an F bomb in the middleof a sentence where he's saying
our Lord's name, and I'm like,dude, it's like borderline
(18:16):
blasphemous.
Like, what do you?
I don't even know what you'regoing for here.
He's like, I don't really havetime if somebody's gonna pearl
clutch over language.
Like, I'm not pearl clutchingover language, I don't care if
you say the F-word two sentencesbefore, it's in that context.
You don't use it, like it's justit's just not good.
And and then he's got videos onhis channel about the the sins
of the tongue.
(18:36):
It's like, what like I don'tknow, like whatever.
I'm not even trying to get onPine Tap.
He just he's just been likehammering the whole oh low IQ,
low IQ uh people criticizing thePope.
It's like, no, dude, you'rebeing low IQ, you're not
actually understanding theargument, and you're car you're
making a caricature of peoplewho are upset about this stuff.
This is legit reasons to beupset.
(18:59):
And even the block of ice thing,no, there's nothing
intrinsically wrong about thePope blessing a block of ice.
We have popes bless cattle, andwe have pope like we go in and
we bring all our stuff, and wehave the candles get blessed,
and holy job gets blessed.
SPEAKER_03 (19:13):
Generally, though, when immaterial objects are or
when material objects areblessed, there are things that
they are things that are goingto be used, generally speaking.
You don't just bless somethingto bless it, usually.
Um, but yeah, I mean the ice,whatever.
SPEAKER_05 (19:28):
But don't care it's the optics of that, it's the
optics of it.
It's like you have the Popealong with the UN, you have
Arnold Schwarzenegger wavingthis, it's just gay and cringe.
And I have news for you.
Like, I'm I'm you guys thinkwe're the ones talking about
this that we're preventingpeople from coming in the
(19:48):
church.
No, that is what's preventingpeople from coming.
I know a list of Protestants whoare interested in Catholicism,
and when they see garbage likethat, they're like, I'm not
coming into this liberalcesspool.
It's insane.
So I don't know what the rightapproach is.
I don't like I don't want to dothe the the hot take of the Pope
(20:10):
stuff.
I really don't.
Tonight isn't really even aboutthe Pope, it's more about the
conversation that Catholics arehaving.
Like, we're I'm watching how theconversation is going, and these
are guys that I like, these areguys that I genuinely like, and
I'm like, how are we going toever form any kind of like a
coherent movement if everybody'sjust talking past each other?
(20:31):
They won't sit and listen, theywon't actually try to understand
the argument coming from theother side.
Like, nothing is going, we'renever going to build momentum
for anything because we're justcrapping on each other.
Every one of us, we're all doingit.
I'm guilty of it too.
I just did it in the beginningof this episode.
I like I genuinely don't dislikePine Sap.
I don't dislike Eric McCabe.
(20:51):
I like those guys.
I'll I'm always open to having aconversation with them.
Um, so wait, I want to see whatuh Catholic Esquire just said.
Uh the problem with the iceblessing was also the pagan
ritual that occurred right afterthe ice blessing in the presence
of I didn't, I didn't actuallywatch all I saw was like images
of it and stuff.
I couldn't, I can't sit throughthat stuff.
It's just so cringe.
(21:12):
Like it's so cringe, it isembarrassing.
All that ice, the Apple Tinisand the extra gold.
It's like I'll ant like some.
It's just the the so yeah, likelike I said, like I'm watching
these this guy like critiqueTaylor and make a caricature of
(21:32):
what he's saying, calling him aneocon and things like that.
And it was just like, I'm like,this isn't gonna work, man.
Like, I can't I don't know if Icould do this for another 10
years.
It's just bizarre, it's morelike 15 to 20, probably.
That and that could be thatmuch.
Now, Taylor had two really goodtakes tonight.
SPEAKER_03 (21:48):
Um see if I can pull them up here.
SPEAKER_05 (21:50):
Yeah, let's pull those up.
SPEAKER_03 (21:51):
Um, I have I have the one I sent you.
SPEAKER_05 (21:53):
I don't let's let's not do the death.
Well, I guess because we'retalking about the death penalty,
right?
We'll start with that.
But the other one was his takeon papal encyclicals because I
have that one ready.
Yeah, let's do the so thecatechism of the council of
Trent on the death penalty.
The power of life and death ispermitted to certain civil
magistrates because theirs isthe responsibility under law to
(22:14):
punish the guilty and protectthe innocent.
Far from being guilty ofbreaking this commandment, thy
shall not kill.
Such an execution of justice isprecisely an act of obedience to
it, for the purpose of the lawis to protect and foster human
life.
This purpose is fulfilled whenthe legitimate authority of the
state is exercised by taking theguilty lives of those who have
taken innocent lives.
(22:35):
In the in the Psalms, we findthe vindication of this right,
morning by morning, I willdestroy all the wicked in the
land, cutting off all evildoersfrom the city of the Lord.
Psalm 10, uh Psalm 101, 8.
Now that's the catechism ofTrent.
Yep.
Now to go from that to the deathpenalty is inadmissible because
of human dignity is violated init.
(22:56):
Like, that's not the same assaying, like, okay, the modern
prison system is different, andwe can actually protect human
life now.
SPEAKER_03 (23:01):
That this is the this is a I mean, so so there's
what uh four 450 years inbetween those two.
Here is something from Pius XII,I think in 1953.
So this is 70 years ago.
Even when it is a question ofthe execution of a man condemned
to death, the state does notdispose of the individual's
(23:24):
right to live.
It is reserved rather to thepublic authority to deprive the
criminal criminal of the benefitof life when already by his own
crime he has deprived himself ofthe right to live.
That was 70 years ago.
SPEAKER_05 (23:38):
Dude, that's that and that's actually true.
Like there are some crimes soheinous that you you like you
give up your right to live.
Yeah, you can commit crimes thatare so heinous that you you give
up your right to live.
You don't you don't have a rightto be amongst like to be amongst
(24:02):
the human population.
It's just you you have tounderstand that this stuff is
very important, and to and to gofrom post-conciliar popes having
our back on this stuff to thenhaving guys who converted under
Francis going into it and likethey their motives are good,
they want to protect the Pope.
They want you know, they want tothey I know what you guys are
doing, I know I understand likeit's a good instinct, it's a
(24:24):
good Catholic instinct you have,but we can't just lie and
gaslight one another, yeah.
And that's from Genesis 9.
Yeah, who so whosoever shallshed man's blood, his blood
shall be shed.
For man was made in the to theimage of God.
So look, the thing is, you'renot you you also have all these
Protestants looking on, right?
(24:45):
And there are many that areinterested in the Catholic
Church, and if we don't actuallyspeak out and say, look, this is
problematic, you're not helpingthem come in at all.
It's it's not helpful, it'sreally not.
So I understand like theconversation around okay, what
should our approach be?
Like, what should how should wehandle this?
(25:08):
Do we want to take the sametactics we did under Francis?
Maybe we should come up with anew approach to things.
I understand that, but to justpretend like the ice blessing
was no big deal, I'm sorry,guys, you're so wrong on that.
That is such boomer cringenonsense.
So, uh Taylor's other take wasthis I have it here.
Modern popes spent years writingencyclicals on a minutiae that
(25:30):
almost nobody reads.
Then they perform on-screengaffs that instantly influence
millions of people.
They don't yet understand howviral influence works.
We can soberly discuss doctrineand ecclesial governance, but
meanwhile, a tidal wave ofProtestants, Orthodox, and
Catholics is are crashing outagainst the papacy, all based on
48 hours of awkward viral PopeLeo content.
(25:52):
This the past 48 hours have beensuch a public relations
disaster, like just a total,especially from the Pope coming
in and saying, I want to be thePope who kind of brings peace to
the situation.
I don't want to continue thepolarization.
I want it's like, look, the umyou guys have throwing me off to
(26:17):
tweet on those comments onscreen.
Um, the oh I just lost my wholetrain of thought.
SPEAKER_04 (26:25):
So bad.
SPEAKER_03 (26:26):
The last 44 hour 48 hours.
SPEAKER_05 (26:28):
The last 48 hours was such a public relations
disaster.
Um that I no, I had like a realreal thought I was going through
it.
SPEAKER_06 (26:39):
I just got totally thrown off.
SPEAKER_03 (26:46):
Well, you think we should talk about our sponsor
because we forgot to do that.
SPEAKER_05 (26:49):
So we'll do that in a second.
We'll we'll I just wanna I wannawrap wrap up these thoughts on
this.
It's just um like you have youhave everything from um this
this cringe oh ohenvironmentalism.
That's what I was gonna say.
Like, so you also have theseguys who are like the Catholic
Church is for the environmentand stuff, and it's like, yes,
(27:09):
like the Catholic Church hasalways dude, I've an obscoporia.
The Catholic Church has alwaysbeen um for caring for creation,
right?
It's like God gave us the giftof creation.
We do we are supposed to be um,you're supposed to conserve your
local environment.
You don't want to litter, youdon't want to treat your
environment like trash, but tocan to inflate that with climate
(27:34):
change and green, like all thesegreen bills that they're paying,
like all of that stuff isleftist infiltration.
And for you guys to run coverfor that, you're running cover
for revolution in the world.
SPEAKER_03 (27:49):
And there's been a ton of studies done that show
that the whole green movement isreally directly related to the
communists, like when you talkabout green movement, you're
really talking about like theRed Soviets, more or less.
So, I mean, the for the CatholicChurch to go from fighting
communism so hard in the 50s andstuff to now more or less being
(28:10):
a big proponent of communistmovement is ridiculous.
SPEAKER_05 (28:13):
And and look, this is this is they're getting swept
up in this because they'resaying, Oh, like care for the
planet, you know, this is allgood stuff.
We we wanna we want to takethese initiatives for clean
energy and things like that, andit sounds real good, but you all
know what's coming with that.
What's coming with that is likedigital ID, what's coming with
(28:35):
that is carbon taxes, thingslike that.
These are all these are allleftist revolutionary things to
to have like dictatorship overyour life.
So for us to just make it like,oh, this is just the Catholic
Church being in favor of theenvironment.
I'm I'm fine with the churchspeaking out about caring for
(28:56):
the planet Earth.
I'm fine with that.
I'm fine with us talking aboutnot, you know, pumping toxic
chemicals into the environmentor polluting our waterways,
things like that.
Those are all good things, butthis climate hysteria stuff is
not that, and it's verydangerous.
Uh, my Protestant friend I'vebeen working on has changed his
mind about the church on a lot,but he said, uh, but he sent me
(29:18):
the Pope's video of this.
These things from Popes havebeen a constant block, convert
friends, family, like constantblock for convert friends and uh
family.
Look, I spoke with Keith Nestortoday, and he was like, Look,
he's never gonna speak publiclyabout the Pope, like he's just
never gonna be that guy.
Mike Pantile, same thing.
These guys are never, butthey're heartbroken because,
(29:38):
like, we all were hoping uhagainst hope that Leo would just
chill out with this stuff, likejust chill out a little bit with
this nonsense.
But he's so that's why I likeall of this kind of pent up
energy came out in the last 48hours, and yeah, it looked like
it was like this hostilitytowards the Pope and stuff, but
I don't like when people ascribeThese motives to trads as if
(30:02):
they have like evil intentionsagainst the pope and they want
to undermine the church, or it'sjust heartbreaking for a lot of
people.
It's heartbreaking, especiallywhen you're dealing with
post-conciliar popes.
It's not like these are eventrads, you're talking about
conservative, just novus ordoCatholics that are feeling this
way.
It's the same reason I'm whenwhen I talked about the trad
(30:25):
movement, like there was thetrad movement under Francis was
a lot more than trad's a lotmore.
It was it was conservativeCatholics because Francis was
taking hits at everybody,calling everybody that liked to
kneel for communion rigid andbackwards and calling us
copophagiacs and things likethat, and it kind of made made a
(30:49):
uh like a lot of people whonormally wouldn't be in the same
group come together, and yeah,and that seemed to be
dissipating.
And I was like, I don't knowwhat's going to happen with the
Trad movement under Leo.
And so the like the first day ofthis, I was kind of like, Oh,
look, everybody's getting backtogether, everybody's you know,
we're we're fighting the sameenemy, which isn't the Pope,
it's leftist ideology, it'smodernism, it's modernism, like
(31:12):
that's what the enemy is.
The enemy is not the Pope, theenemy is these leftists who have
infiltrated the hierarchy, andthey're just pushing this stuff
that we all know is wrong.
We all do, like, even you PopeSplainers, who you're trying to
defend this against all it'sindefensible, but you're trying,
and your motives are good, butyou know deep down, if you're it
(31:36):
like you know it's not good,like if you're if you're arguing
the same position as JamesMartin, as Mike Lewis, as the
the the the lesbian furry withhe him or she she her and her
freaking profile, like you gottathink a little bit about that.
Like you have to think.
(31:57):
It's not you know, it's it's onething to say, well, the Catholic
position is different thanpolitical.
This has nothing to do withpolitics.
I don't like politics, like, I'mnot into politics.
I can't stand the MAGA movement.
I mean, not that I can't standthe MAGA movement, I just think
Trump is not what they want himto be.
I just don't care aboutpolitics.
This isn't about I'm not I'm notfor the death penalty because
(32:18):
I'm a Republican, I don't careabout that stuff.
Um I'm for the death penaltybecause that is what that is
what the church has alwaystaught.
I'm for the death penaltybecause I care about the taking
of innocent life.
That's why I'm for the deathpenalty.
And I I honestly don't let's notlike I I'm you know, I do think
(32:39):
there are plenty of punishmentsthat can be dealt out that don't
have to go to the extreme ofdeath penalty, but it is for the
the inconsistency in the churchteaching.
Like if you're going to flip ateaching like that, what you're
saying is the church can err onfaith and morals, and that is
the whole premise of papalinfallibility.
Everybody's acting like if wecriticize the Pope, we're we're
saying he's infallible.
(33:00):
We're saying infallible.
SPEAKER_03 (33:00):
No, the Pope can err on faith and morals when it's
not uh speaking ex-cathedra.
Right.
But the church can't.
Right, which is why theuniversal ordinary magisterium
or the church teaches that thedeath penalty is listed.
SPEAKER_05 (33:17):
So it's it's not, you know, I I'm just you know, I
think I think the conversationneeds to be had a little bit
differently this time.
I don't want it to be I don'twant it to be gaslight pope
spleeners against conservativeCatholics, and then conservative
Catholics fighting with theTrads, and then the Trads have
their own civil war going onright now.
(33:38):
Yeah, I don't know what we'regonna do here.
I'm tired of the tribalism.
I want to build some kind of amovement here.
I want I want to get people tosit down and have a conversation
because they're all people thatI I I think are valuable in
their own way, they all havesomething to offer, and I think
everybody everybody is going to,you know.
(34:00):
I mean, you go back to the thesolidarity principle of John
Paul II, it's how he broughtdown communism, right?
In a in a way, kind of broughtit down.
SPEAKER_03 (34:09):
I think we're starting to see that it we
didn't bring it down and maybewell who brought down the Berlin
Wall.
It it yeah, yeah.
It realized that uh its bestchance at winning was to uh
Yeah, we're not gonna go there.
SPEAKER_05 (34:23):
Um but I mean that's I that's um what's the Trad
Civil War?
SPEAKER_03 (34:29):
Part of it was uh hold on.
Part of it was Murray and uhSalmons going after each other.
Well, look, man.
By the way, I'm T Murray in thaton that one.
SPEAKER_05 (34:41):
Yeah, I don't know what's up with Salmons lately.
Salmons running Crisis magazine,and he doesn't want to talk
about the crisis.
SPEAKER_03 (34:48):
Salmons is probably too busy worrying about his
other make what his othermagazine is talking about.
SPEAKER_05 (34:52):
One Peter F what is going on.
Oh my goodness.
That's all locals conversationtonight.
We gotta talk about TimFlanders.
I don't know what's going onwith this guy.
I don't know what's happeningwith Tim Flanders.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (35:03):
I don't know.
I don't get it.
I think October 7th is coming upfast.
Tim Flanders.
SPEAKER_05 (35:10):
So uh look now now but you have that whole thing
that we just talked about, andthen you have Dr.
Kważnevsky on Matt Fred today.
It's like this contrast ofeverything going on.
SPEAKER_03 (35:23):
So that was the first besides a couple homilies
I've watched from Father Altierover the last couple of days.
That was the first Catherinecontent, besides her own, that
I've watched in in a year ormore.
SPEAKER_05 (35:38):
I watched like the whole four hours, too.
SPEAKER_03 (35:40):
I did too, and it was yeah, it was good, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (35:43):
Yeah, it was really good.
Um, there's one clip.
SPEAKER_03 (35:47):
What amazed me most is at the end of that four
hours, Kwasneski looked like hewas just getting in his groove,
like he he was ready to go foranother six.
SPEAKER_05 (35:55):
So I I'm pretty sure the conversation was like six
hours long, and it's gonna betwo parts.
Really?
There's another part coming outnext Wednesday, I believe.
Oh wow.
So um, unless he unless heedited it down and crammed it
all into one, but that from whatI understand, it was a it's a
six-hour conversation, and theother two hours comes out next
week.
Sweet.
Um, there was one clip that'srelevant to this conversation
(36:20):
that I kind of want to um I wantto play.
Uh it's the one I wrote Mattasked about discourse between
trads and normies.
Yep.
So it's it's it's a quick minuteand a half conversation, but
it's kind of relevant to whatwe're talking about right now.
SPEAKER_00 (36:36):
Church uh mass nervous normies like me, I
suppose.
And I don't think it'sunfounded, eh?
Is that there seems like there'sthis perpetual cynicism against
whatever the church today issaying, a sort of resistance
against any initiative that'sbeing led by some apostolate.
(36:56):
Uh, so it's like we can'tcelebrate anything, you know.
So, hey, Bible in a year, howgreat is that?
That's the number one podcast.
Modernism.
I don't let me finish becauseI've I want to go on a bit of a
bender here.
Um, you know, or Faustina.
I've heard people say, well,that that that devotion's
satanic.
Or um John Paul II's uh Theologyof the Body.
No, it's one thing to have havelegitimate criticisms about it,
(37:19):
but it's another thing, again,to call it satanic.
And I just think it can't behealthy to live in this
perpetual state of elbows upagainst the mother who's
supposed to be teaching you.
Now, maybe there's good reasonsthat you have to be on guard
given what you've just laid out.
Uh, but I think Novus AutoCatholics, I don't mean to use
that in a disparaging way oranyway, but just those who
(37:39):
attend the Novus Auto Mass, forbetter or worse, don't live in
that position.
They live in a sort of opennessto the church, and maybe that
gets abused, but I think there'sa sort of state of like peace
that Novus Auto Catholics havethat sometimes we don't
encounter.
And I understand that that canbe a character and a straw man
of the average Latin Mass goingCatholic, but sometimes online
(38:01):
you'll see people who are veryangry continually, and you
think, okay, I look at otherLatin Mass Catholics like Teresa
of Lesieux, she didn't have tokeep going on about this.
Whenever I encounter a Latinmass Catholic who I love and
learn from, it feels like we'realways talking about liturgy.
SPEAKER_05 (38:16):
Um what do you think about that?
Um well like him saying like ourlike from the church, like
because I I'll be honest, Idon't I'm not praying the I'm
not praying the Divine MercyChaplet.
I'm not I don't pray theLuminous Mysteries, like I just
I kind of just don't care aboutany of that stuff.
It's like I I pray I pray therosary as Saint Dominic gave it
(38:38):
to us.
I and it's not that I don't haveany hostility towards that
stuff.
I just I just kind of I kind ofview anything after the council
as like I don't know some ofthese innovations.
I'm skeptical, I am skeptical oflike most of the innovations
after the council.
So he's not wrong, like I I I'mI'm he's he's making a fair
characterization, I think.
SPEAKER_03 (38:58):
Um so I mean you and I are both cradle Catholics,
yeah.
Uh and like I I grew up prayingthe rosary all the time.
Um so by the time the theLuminous Mysteries came out, I
was 14.
I've been praying the rosarypretty regularly for eight years
already at that point, and likeyou know, and and I often prayed
(39:19):
with my grandparents who havebeen praying it since they were
kids in the 20s and 30s.
So when they came when all thatcame out, I was just like, yeah,
you know, like like from mymemory, no one cared.
Like, oh new mysteries, I'msure.
SPEAKER_05 (39:37):
Like when I when I first reverted, did I pray the
luminous mysteries?
I don't I don't I mean I I'm notlike in principle against
meditating on different noevents in scripture.
SPEAKER_03 (39:46):
No, I mean and they they they existed before JP2
yeah thought he could just addthem to the Dominican rosary,
right?
They were a separate the the thechaplet of light, it was a
separate chaplet and it had beenfor a while.
So I don't know why they neededfor to be added to the Dominican
rosary when there's so manyother uh chaplets, you know.
The Franciscans have a differentrosary, you know.
(40:08):
There's you have your chaplet,the chaplet of the seven
sorrows, things like that.
Like, so no, I don't have anyproblem with them per like in
and of itself.
I just don't pray them.
I'm not saying I wouldn't praythem, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (40:20):
Like if I were to get too, I'm not, I'm not like
fundamentally against them.
I just I don't have thatdevotion, like I just don't,
they're just not a part of myrosary devotion, right?
But but I do think there'ssomething to the luminous
mysteries leading to the Sonatalmysteries, like I kind of see
all this stuff as likeincremental like steps towards
kind of wackier stuff, and umSt.
(40:42):
Faustina, I just never read herdiary, like I don't and it's not
it's not like out of principleor anything.
SPEAKER_03 (40:47):
I don't I just never read her diary, and that got
popularized like after I grew uptoo, right?
SPEAKER_05 (40:53):
So yeah, and it in it's largely the John Paul II
had a had a had a a love forher, so I think you know that's
right.
SPEAKER_03 (41:02):
Uh and I I don't have any problems praying uh
with people who pray the divinemercy chaplet.
It's just anytime I would praythe divine mercy chaplet, I'd
rather pray the rosary, you knowwhat I mean?
So it um I I do think those whodo rail against both probably do
more harm than good.
SPEAKER_05 (41:20):
Well, okay, so that's kind of what Matt's
getting at is a lot of theconversation.
Uh come all right, so I like theI think it's toxic from both
ends.
Yeah, like I do see what whathappened.
So earlier in the interview,Kwaznewsky says, Look, the the
problem with novus ordo traddiscourse is most trads spent
(41:44):
most of their life in the novusordo and then discover
tradition.
And then we know both.
So like you know both, but likeyou come to tradition, you have
this feeling like I have beenrobbed, and then you kind of get
radicalized by the tradition,and you're like, you have this
militancy about it becauseyou're like, How did they take
this from me?
Right, so that translates intoyour conversations online, and
(42:09):
then people that go to the novusorto interpret your militancy as
judgment, and then and they feellike you're saying the novice if
you attend the novus order,you're less a less Catholic than
me or something, or you're notas good of a Catholic as me.
When the truth is, like youprobably just don't have access
to the Latin mass, and if youdid, you'd probably fall in love
(42:30):
with it because most of the likegood Nova Sordo Catholics I know
would love it if their NovaSorta was more traditional and
there was Gregorian chant andthere was kneeling for communion
and there was no altar girls andthere was no you know women
reading at the lecture and womenlectors and things like that.
Like you would all of you wouldlove all of those things, and
all of those things are justinherent in the Latin mass.
(42:50):
So I don't know why you guyswouldn't just love like you just
would love it if you'd go to it,so but it's not like like it's
not like you're it's your faultthat the hierarchy enacted this
other liturgy, it's uh it's ourour criticisms are for the most
(43:12):
part of of the the itemsthemselves and not of the
people.
SPEAKER_03 (43:18):
Right?
And when we cite statistics thatsay, you know, 51-52 percent of
those who attend the novus ordouh believe abortion is okay,
we're not we're not saying thatthat all those who go to the
novus or believe that or or orthings of that nature.
(43:42):
Uh I guess we are kind ofcondemning those who do believe
that, because we should condemnthose who do believe that.
But um we're we're not sayingthat Novus Ordo teaches it.
Not not not um directly, notexplicitly, no.
SPEAKER_05 (43:56):
Yeah.
But it but there is somethingabout so though okay, so I'll
I'll put it this way.
It when it even comes to dressat the Novus Ordo versus the
TLM, there's something aboutwhen you walk into a TLM where
you feel this pressure to dressnice, and it's not just because
everybody else is dressed nice,like there's something very
formal about the Latin masswhere you're just ooh, this
(44:18):
isn't this isn't casual.
Like I can't, you know, I can't,I don't know, there's something
going on here.
I can't just be in here in my inmy you know gym shorts or
whatever.
SPEAKER_03 (44:28):
Where which is especially interesting because
the um in the Latin mass, thepriest isn't gonna see you, you
know.
He's right, he's facing theother way.
SPEAKER_05 (44:38):
But it's more just like the the um the reality of
it makes yes, that is true,Rob's kids and cross.
The reality of it, there'ssomething that you will just go,
whoa, I I can't dress like thathere, right?
But when you go to a noviceorder, like we were critiquing
the Andrea, what is it?
Bodich uh Andrea Bocelli.
Andrea Bocelli was at a novus orin Italy singing the Ave Maria
(45:04):
in shorts and flip-flops, and itwas just normal, like there's
something so casual about theNovus Ordo.
SPEAKER_03 (45:12):
It's just like you walk in and so I mean at the
cathedral on Saturday forconfession, every and you know,
everyone everyone was in shorts,t-shirts, and I'll be honest,
and that's at a beautifulcathedral, and and I was too
granted.
I could come up with excuseslike we had just come from a
(45:33):
family event and whatnot, butbut um that is the atmosphere,
even as a beautiful cathedral.
SPEAKER_05 (45:39):
Okay, but listen, here's what I'm telling you.
Yes, I wasn't dressedparticularly well for that
confession either, but it wasbecause we knew we were going to
a Novus Ordo Cathedral.
Like if we if we were going toan FSSP for confession, you and
I would have stopped back at thehotel and changed, and then
went.
SPEAKER_03 (45:57):
You're not wrong.
No, I know that is screwed upand wrong in our parts, but it
is what it is.
SPEAKER_05 (46:05):
That's it.
There's because look, and maybemaybe that's uh like when when
Benedict did the mutual umenrichment thing, remember when
Benedict uh like he was like,Oh, we'll have the Novus Ordo
and the Latin Mass at the sameparish, and we'll do mutual
enrichment, you know?
Um, there was a lot most of theenrichment went one way where it
(46:27):
was like if you had a Latin massin a parish, you made fun of a
blind man.
Yeah, all right, but he he knowswhat shorts are, he knows what
he's wearing.
Um, when you um what was I justsaying?
SPEAKER_03 (46:41):
Mutual enrichment benedict.
Oh, mutual enrichment.
SPEAKER_05 (46:44):
Okay, so the enrichment largely went one way.
Um, where if you had a TLM atyour di at the awesome at your
diocesan parish, your noviceorder would start to look a lot
nicer.
The enrichment that went theother way, I think, was um a I
don't know because I've I don'tknow because I can only compare
(47:06):
it to like a an SS an SSPXparish I've a chapel I've been
to or an FSSP, but there'ssomething about if you go to a
diocesan Latin mass and and youryour wife or daughter forgets
her veil, like you're not gonnaget judged for it.
You know, nobody's gonna sayanything.
Where if you walk in an SS SSPXchapel without your veil,
somebody's coming over andgiving you a veil.
(47:26):
Typically, like somebody willcome over and go, No, no, no,
you're mailing.
There's nothing wrong with that.
No, I'm not I'm not saying thereis, I think that's the
enrichment that went the otherway.
It's like informality.
Like, I think that's that's theenrichment.
SPEAKER_03 (47:40):
What's the opposite of an enrichment enrichment
then?
SPEAKER_05 (47:43):
Uh degradation.
Um, yes, you should you shoulddress up for the novice order.
I'm not saying, yeah, obviously,yeah.
If you it's you should bewearing your Sunday best to mess
for sure.
Um, I'm just saying it kind ofbreeds an atmosphere of
informality and you know theliturgy kind of go wearing
whatever formal.
Yeah, it the the liturgy itselfis informal, you know.
(48:06):
So um, yeah, I do think theconversation Matt had um Matt
had with Dr.
K was I think it was importantbecause you're introducing a
largely normy audience to agentle a gentle explanation,
(48:27):
right?
Where instead of this hardconversation that we're
constantly having on Twitter andthings like that, like the the
way we're all having theconversation is um there is an
element of the Novosotors Hassa,of course.
Oh, that that I didn't get tothat yet.
That's right.
So it's not an avoidance or so,yes, that's that's what we do on
our part, right?
(48:47):
Like we come in with this likemilitancy and they perceive
that, but I have I have nevereven if you read the comments in
Matt's video, the people thatare dismissing Dr.
K are not dismissing him on hisarguments, they're dismissing
him with ad hominem attacks,like it's like they feel judged
(49:09):
and they will just lash outbecause they think you're
judging them.
And it's a it's a strange thing,it's like when you criticize
boomers, and every boomer getssensitive about it, except for
Mimi.
Mimi's awesome.
Um, but nice every boomer takesit personally if you criticize
boomers.
Like my dad caught one show ofours, and I criticized boomers,
and he lost it.
He was like, Like, dad, younever watched my show once.
(49:31):
I gotta worry about you watchingmy show and saying so about
boomers.
It's this uh this and it it thatmight be who's late, like
throwing those those comments inMatt's chat, too.
Might be a lot of boomers takingoffense like that, too.
But I've noticed it from allcorners, right?
And this this moniker of radtrad for anybody that even had
(49:55):
the slightest criticism of whathappened in the past 48 hours
with Leo, the the label of radtrad gets thrown at them, like
there's some there's somelunatic.
How dare you criticize the post?
Like, guys, this is this is nutswhat we're watching.
I mean, how do you not criticizeit?
It's it's I don't know.
(50:15):
I I feel like defending it ispreposterous to me, and that was
always I just don't want to dothis for another 15 years, man.
I don't want my I don't want totalk about this stuff.
SPEAKER_03 (50:27):
I've been like and you could ask, you could ask my
that read like a father, uh afather Taylor Marshall SJ to a
read father marshall sj.
You might have to bring him backfor this pontificate.
(50:47):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_05 (50:48):
I've just been um really sad over the last like
day, day and a half.
No, just day one.
I was having a blast.
Like day one, I was even havingfun with like Christopher Hale,
like because Christopher Halewas like gloating beyond belief.
I'm like, you must be in yourglory, right?
SPEAKER_03 (51:08):
We block Grover, no uh, no orthodox watching the
show.
SPEAKER_05 (51:11):
Yeah, he's east he's eastern quote author orthodox.
We won't let him in here.
Um, the the the gloating wasalmost funny.
Like he was he was just like inhis glory.
He's like, Yes, we have a popewho's a liberal, like and you
gotta give those guys their due.
SPEAKER_04 (51:26):
Like, go ahead, go ahead, have your laughs, gloat,
gloat away, is what it is.
SPEAKER_03 (51:31):
Hey, we can at least we know wait where Peter is will
get to survive for a few moreyears, right?
SPEAKER_05 (51:38):
Yeah, I guess.
I mean, it's good, it's just Idon't know, and I don't know
what everybody's approach isgoing to be.
I like okay, so even watching umthe different um the different
groups do the criticism thing,um, I'm seeing people try to
like some people are balancingwhat they're saying, other
(52:00):
people are like, I told youguys, I told you this was
coming.
And the thing is, I actuallyenjoy I think all of those
things have their place, likethey actually do, and we're
going to figure something out.
It's going to take like, do youthink Leo is going to learn from
this and not do this again?
Or do you think this is like thefirst in a series of things to
(52:21):
come?
SPEAKER_03 (52:25):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_05 (52:26):
Uh I I think he's gonna learn from this.
I do.
I think I think the past 48hours, I don't look, I don't
care.
SPEAKER_03 (52:33):
It depends who he really is.
If he's the conciliatory I justwant to make peace with all
sides, then then he'll learn howhow to avoid these optics.
I mean, I think we've learned hehe he's definitely no crat or
(52:55):
even conservative.
I think for sure that nothinglike that.
Um but i if he really is wantsto be conciliatory, he'll learn
from the optics, or maybe hereally is just a this is Francis
2.0 and it will just be thestart of 20 years of this.
This is helpful, yes.
SPEAKER_05 (53:13):
Anthony's an idiot.
Okay, all right.
Um I think I think he'll learnfrom this.
Um I think it it all he couldhave handled the the
conversation with the reporterand just said, Look, I'm not
comfortable uh throwing a foff-the-fly comment on this
(53:34):
situation.
Um, we're talking about thingsbehind the scenes, that's all
I'm gonna say for now.
SPEAKER_03 (53:38):
Like just something like that, and you know, you
know, he could still kind of I'mnot gonna say fix it, but he
could smooth things over bycoming out and make a clarifying
statement.
Like obviously, we we now knowhe believes the death penalty is
I don't know if I want to sayimmoral, right?
But he's against the deathpenalty.
(53:59):
We know we know that for surenow, and we really knew it
before, anyways.
But he could come on and saysomething like, you know, my
statement in no way meant toequate the execution of a
murderer with you know 60million children being aborted.
Yeah, that that would smooththings over.
SPEAKER_05 (54:16):
This is also a very good point, right?
So, what's happening inCharlotte?
The people that are like hopingsomething's going to come and
we're gonna get our breadcrumbsof the Latin mess, it's not
happening.
Like it's not happening.
I I mean, if you I think ifpeople request if the bishops
request permission, they'll getit.
But if you don't requestpermission, I just think he's
gonna say nothing on it.
(54:37):
Like, I don't I can't imaginethe bishop of Charlotte made
that decision after afterbacking off in June and going,
we're gonna wait to hear fromfrom Rome.
SPEAKER_03 (54:46):
So you think TC continues but with less direct
persecution from Rome itself?
I think this I think thedocuments you won't have Roche
going after diocese, but they'renot gonna stop a bishop from
shutting it down in his owndiocese.
SPEAKER_05 (55:02):
A bishop they won't stop a bishop from shutting it
down, and they won't stop abishop from continuing it.
Right, they'll give theextensions when they're asked,
or if a bishop wants to shut itdown, but you also had that
outgoing bishop out of LA whowas going to Texas, Monterey,
and on his way out, he destroysthe TLM, and then on his way in,
he shuts down one in Austin, andshuts the one down in Austin.
It's like these guys are doingum, these guys are doing what
(55:26):
they're allowed to do.
I've been listening to a lot offarther Chad Rebecca's teachings
on YouTube, and I think he'dmake a great pope.
Yeah, so do we all.
SPEAKER_03 (55:34):
He would be so pissed if he was made pope.
SPEAKER_05 (55:37):
Yeah, he's he wouldn't want that.
I still think Maudsley would bethe best pope.
He'd be Maudsley would be theonly Pope that can actually fix
everything.
Um but yeah, all right.
We're gonna we're gonna wrapthis up.
I don't know.
I I hope the gaslighters chillout because this stuff is uh I
like having a guest in a b, butit's great listening to Ant and
(55:59):
Rob discussing.
Thank you, Vince.
Appreciate you.
Uh he shut it down in Austin andat Texas AM.
Yeah, guys, I don't I don'tknow.
I I think I think uh I think weI think the revolution
continues.
The revolution continues, it'snot gonna stop.
No it is, but I I think we dostill need to figure out a good
(56:21):
game plan.
Like, I don't think look, whatlike Rob, you said this last
episode.
You were like, okay, so like dowe do what we did under Francis?
Because what happened, what wedid under Francis just led to a
doubling down, right?
It was like it didn't work.
That strategy didn't work underFrancis, so why would it work
under Leo?
I'm not saying grovel.
SPEAKER_03 (56:41):
I think it might actually work under Leo, to be
honest.
Well, let's see how the let'ssee how if he is kind of squishy
and wants wants to make peace,then the the then the louder we
are, then the more he might beconciliatory towards us.
I don't know.
I'm not saying that's the rightthing.
SPEAKER_05 (57:00):
Yeah, I yeah, it's up in the air.
We'll see.
But what all right, we're gonnawe're gonna go.
I it's just uh don't you daresay that.
SPEAKER_03 (57:10):
Is that a joke or are you serious?
SPEAKER_05 (57:12):
Is that a joke?
That's that's my that's my joke.
Uh did y'all see my commentstoday on papal papal maxing?
Agree or disagree?
I didn't I didn't see that.
No.
No, I did think that your pointabout uh social media and just
the what the what the what canbe done with simple imagery and
(57:38):
memes is very important now.
Like you have way more of aneffect what you do in a
two-minute video soundbite orclip than you ever will in a in
a in a oh or a maxim.
Yeah, you'll you'll have waymore of an impact with the I
mean you see what the last 48hours did, right?
There's way more impact fromthat than you'll ever have from
(58:00):
an encyclical.
The encyclicals are for nerds,like we nerd out on that stuff.
If there's something, you know,we're we're gonna when that when
that inside of the next and thefirst encyclical is gonna be on
the poor and care for the poor.
I think it was started byFrancis, and it's gonna be it's
it's kind of like the um thefirst Francis encyclical was
half written by Benedict andhalf written by Francis.
So that's like the only one thatsounds pretty decent, where like
(58:24):
Benedict is talking aboutevangelizing, and he's like, you
know, before you preach JesusChrist, you should get to know
the person first and stuff.
It's a it's a decent encyclical,but that only the first half,
because that's what Benedictwrote.
Um, whereas we'll see whathappens with this one.
Maybe the second half will bethe better half, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (58:42):
Um we'll see.
SPEAKER_05 (58:46):
Uh, I didn't hear an update on that St.
Rocco's thing.
Say St.
Rocco's definitely getting asomber down.
I don't know.
I don't know who's telling methe truth yet.
Shut down.
I don't know if they're tellingme the truth yet.
I'm gonna I do not know.
SPEAKER_01 (59:03):
I'll have to ask.
SPEAKER_05 (59:06):
That's the one you go to them for the most.
It's Kevin James's parish.
It's my parish, Kevin James'sparish.
Yeah, that's like that's animportant parish in our diocese.
Um, all right, so we're gonnahead over to locals.
We're doing a short local showtonight, but I want to I gotta I
want to talk about one Peter 5and Tim Flanders.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (59:22):
Oh boondog says he was just kidding.
SPEAKER_05 (59:24):
Okay, thank god.
No, seriously, thank god.
Um, Kevin James is Catholic.
All right, we get it, guys.
Wait, wait, wait, Paul Blart.
Yeah, all right, we get it.
I can't do this joke again.
Um, all right, we're gonna headover to locals.
Um, if you guys can please hitlike, subscribe, share the show.
(59:45):
Help us.
SPEAKER_03 (59:46):
Can we talk about our sponsor before we go over to
local groups?
SPEAKER_05 (59:49):
Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_03 (59:50):
We're so terrible at this.
I'm just terrible at this point,Jason and guys over there.
Um okay.
Do you want me?
I'm gonna I'm gonna read.
the actual script they gave us.
Yeah, let's read the script.
Let's hear it.
Um let me just put on the bannerhere.
Okay.
So yeah, this sucks guys.
It wasn't me and Anne.
SPEAKER_05 (01:00:12):
You know what you gotta do?
We gotta give this to Taffy.
You gotta get you gotta givethis to Taffy and let Taffy come
up with a commercial for them.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:20):
Yeah yeah.
Okay, so I'm gonna read one ofthe scripts word for word.
The moral pillars of our societyhave rotten away.
Chewed up by the termites ofabortion, divorce, transgender.
How can I read this script ifit's gonna get our video
canceled, guys?
You gotta think about that.
SPEAKER_05 (01:00:41):
Requisite.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:43):
Chewed up by the termites of abortion, divorce,
transgenderism, and every kindof cultural disease.
If we hope to rebuild anythingfrom this barbarism that just
makes me think of AnthonySavage's comments from like
three years ago.
We need to keep Christ at thecenter of our efforts.
At Requisant Cellars, they wantto draw more attention to the
glorious feast of Christ theKing.
(01:01:04):
So they are hosting a sale forthe entire month of October.
You can get 20% off all theirred wines with code Rex
Chalorum.
Go to RequisantSellars.com waitwait stop I can't get over yeah
this and is definitely gettingus a strike I can't get over the
promo code they chose to be theyasked they're like do you should
(01:01:24):
we make how is that their promocode Rex Colorum who can spell
first off come on it's it'schalorum do you not know how to
pronounce who can spell that Ican't well that's why I'm gonna
tell everyone how to spell ityou go to requisite sellers.com
that's r-e-c usant sellers dotcom and use code rex chalorum
(01:01:46):
r-e-x c a e l-o r u m for 20%off they should make the pro
they should make the promo codethe Saint Michael prayer in
Latin the whole thing the entireSaint Michael prayer in Latin
should be their promo code.
SPEAKER_05 (01:01:59):
So guys listen that they're looking stop with their
ad listen here's the thing welove recusincers uh they are our
bottle tonight yeah they'rethey're our they are the best
sponsor ever they never tell uswhat we can and can't talk about
they're a family owned um wineryand they sell fruit they sell a
(01:02:20):
bunch of stuff if you guys likeus and you want to support our
show support them because wewould love to keep them as a
sponsor um I I would uh yeahjust go go go support reccucent
they're an awesome Catholicfamily they're they're selling
some really good stuff um theirtheir ads think their wine is
great so first off we're gonnacall T H E I R bud yes he got it
(01:02:45):
he he caught us he caught usthis typo we will we will work
on the ad with RecuSynt andwe'll make Rob mispronounce it
every time but all right thankyou guys we're gonna head over
to the other side thank you forsticking around for especially
for that ad read but seriouslyplease buy wine using that code
guys for us yeah yeah pleasewe'll try to we'll see if we can
get a shorter promo code mygoodness yeah promo code vault
(01:03:18):
all right we'll see you guys onthe other side come join us on
locals bye
Thank you very much, Holy Father and the Vatican, for
inviting me here to this veryimportant event.
I say important event because,as you've just heard, together
we can do it.
Together we can accomplish ourgoal.
(00:33):
The Catholic Church has 1.4billion members.
That power.
(00:54):
And for that to be loved in ourmovement.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06):
We could retake both Constantinople and Jerusalem in
a single afternoon.
SPEAKER_05 (01:13):
He's not wrong.
Um, okay, it's happy.
We gotta mean.
SPEAKER_03 (01:18):
Yeah.
That was to me, he's like, isthis all right?
Doesn't make fun of anyone.
I'm like, yeah, you'll do.
SPEAKER_05 (01:28):
Um, I have to I don't know if it's my internet
or yours.
Um what?
Uh you're jumpy to me.
Now you're now you're better, Ithink.
No, you're frozen.
I don't know.
I hear you fine, but you'reyou're jumpy on the screen.
Is it just me just for me, guys?
Can you guys see Rob fine?
SPEAKER_03 (01:48):
Is everything we are we we do have a storm right now,
so that could be it.
SPEAKER_05 (01:52):
Yeah, you sound a little like underwater a little
bit, but um uh yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (01:57):
That's just because I wish our religion was actually
that big still.
SPEAKER_05 (02:01):
Rob's fine.
Okay, so it's just but you guyssee me fine and I'm moving fine
and everything's fine.
You you see me and hear me fine.
SPEAKER_03 (02:12):
Uh yeah, yeah, I see and hear you fine.
SPEAKER_05 (02:14):
All right, all right, that's all it matters.
All right, you're fine now.
SPEAKER_03 (02:16):
Okay, it might just be your computer being slow or
something.
SPEAKER_05 (02:18):
That's what I mean.
I didn't I couldn't tell if itwas just like like lagging a
bit.
Um man, the uh I I I hate thatthis is what's in the news, man.
Like I hate that this like Icould not figure out what um
like I got on Twitter this okay.
Let's back up a little bit.
(02:39):
When Leo dropped the the wackycomment, right?
Like when it first happened,like we had that conversation
about what it was and stuff, butthen the next day I had so much
fun on Twitter, like it feltlike old times, it was like this
nostalgia from 2018.
SPEAKER_03 (02:58):
I'm uh like getting our band back together.
SPEAKER_05 (03:01):
Yeah, it's like we're getting the band back
together.
It felt like Trad Inc was soback, everybody was mad, and it
was like I had so much funyesterday.
Um, even watching Marshall'sshow, like I haven't I haven't
really watched much Taylorlately, you know, I just was so
busy and got so much going on.
And watching his show, it waslike if it had like that
(03:22):
nostalgic feeling, like likeTaylor was he's like, you know,
man, I'm just I don't know.
It was it was it was yes, I doenjoy this way too much.
I don't actually enjoy that thePope said it, it was it was
nostalgic, it was nostalgic,that's all it was.
Like it had like that thatfeeling of like 2018, like we're
(03:43):
all we're all mad about the samething, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (03:45):
But it also then so then I wake up today and I'm
reading everything, and I seethe Pope's planers come back,
and I'm like, I don't know if Icould do this again, like I just
don't know, especially after afew months of like kind of you
know making nights with all ofthem again, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (04:06):
Like relative peace, you know.
It was like it was just so likeI wake up this morning and I
just start seeing the Pope'splanning, and I'm just like, oh
no, I don't think I could dothis again.
Like, I just don't know if Ihave it in me to go through this
again.
Um, and it was it was funnybecause yesterday, like the
whole lead up was funny becauselike we had the show talking
(04:28):
about trading and the mad trads,and then all of a sudden this
thing happens, and like it wasjust kind of like almost like a
storyline to it where we werestarting to talk about it, and
then this thing happened, andthen it it had a story dynamic
to it where it just all brokeout and everything was fun.
And I had a lot of fun yesterdayon Twitter, and then waking up
and seeing the Pope Spleenerstoday, I'm just like, okay,
(04:52):
there I don't like the term PopeSpleener.
I I they're just gaslighting andliars, they're just gaslighting,
right?
So they're the thing is I alsodon't want to um like I want to
I want to see if we can presentwhat it is because it's not just
(05:12):
this papal animosity.
Um, I starting to thinkAnthony's some kind of chaos,
and I am a chaos, I like tocause chaos and then bring
everybody together.
It's a gift I have.
Um, no, but I even spoke to Ispoke to Wagner.
Um I spoke to Wagner today.
I also spoke with uh KeithNestor today.
(05:32):
Um like there's gotta be a wayfor these conversations to
happen where because you youlike that guy, Shag Bark, like
he that writer.
And like he's interesting, he'sinteresting, but he put out a
post about um the the thereactionary um what what did he
(05:57):
say, man?
He he said something like um thehot take papal commentary.
Uh there was just too much moneyin it, and these people just
couldn't resist, like justputting it ironic for someone
who makes money solely off ofwriting and Twitter, and hot
takes, like that's his soleincome, right?
SPEAKER_03 (06:15):
So it's like yeah, exactly right.
The his hot takes lighting toliking to eat garbage, right?
SPEAKER_05 (06:24):
So it was a caricature that he had in his
head of Trads, and I I want totry to explain, especially to
Pope Splainers, somethingbecause a lot of these guys are
converts and they convertedunder Francis, and they don't
really understand the historyspecifically of what Leo said
(06:44):
and why it had so much it justit was like explosive what he
did because they may have heardthe term seamless garment.
But if you were a Catholicduring John Paul II's papacy and
uh Benedict's papacy, there werebad actors that were in the only
(07:07):
ones using the term at thatpoint were bad actors, were bad
actors.
This term seamless garment.
Okay, now this garment thisseamless garment idea is what it
sought to do was put moralquestions like uh the church's
treatment of immigrants and umand the death penalty on the
(07:29):
same level of morality asabortion, and they were doing
this not because it would it wasit was other it was anything,
right?
It was uh character core everanything that they could throw
in as a life issue, and it wasmeant government welfare, you
know, meant to supportgovernment welfare vehicle for
prelates and clerics to supportleftist politicians.
(07:53):
That's all it is.
So it's like a way to fomentrevolution in your country
because you had under John PaulII, John Paul II was so clear on
the abortion issue that youactually, as a Catholic, it was
like well known you could notvote Democrat as a faithful
Catholic because of the lifeissue.
It was like like for all JohnPaul II's faults and the things
(08:15):
that people criticize him for,he was a stalwart defender of
life.
He really was.
Now he does start the process ofchanging the teaching on the
death penalty, right?
SPEAKER_03 (08:27):
But never at any point does he put it on the same
level as abortion, nor does heever say it's morally
inadmissible or unacceptable oranything like that.
SPEAKER_05 (08:38):
John Paul II is talking about like in the modern
world, we have better prisonsystems, and that you know, it's
like the he and he had seen twototalitarian states misuse the
death penalty, yes, and and andlook, the the thing is, I always
have said the best argumentagainst the death penalty is
(08:59):
when like it would be a corruptgovernment um convicting an
innocent man, right?
Like that is the only likelegitimate argument against it,
uh where an abuse of power couldput someone to death who didn't
who shouldn't have been put todeath, which is even then that's
that's just pro a prudentialmatter, yeah.
(09:19):
Right, but it's still like thebest philosophical argument
against it, in my opinion,right?
But to put the the murder of aninnocent child, a sin that cries
out to heaven, on the same levelof moral culpability as the just
punishment of a murderer,rapist, like something like
that, it's just preposterous,right?
(09:39):
But the but it the the problemis that the the situation was
loaded because under John PaulII and Benedict, both of those
popes had our back against theseamless argument, the seamless
garment argument.
So a lot of these Catholics,when they heard Leo say that,
there's all of this all of thiscomes with it.
(10:02):
So these are people who livethose two pontificates.
This is a po, these arepost-conciliar popes, these
aren't even pre-conciliar popes.
SPEAKER_03 (10:09):
And you you have to under people have to understand
who created the term.
The term was created by CardinalBernadine out of Chicago, who
was a well, one, he was thementor to a certain Cardinal
Theodore McGarrick, and he wasthe protege of Cardinal
(10:30):
Spellman.
Now we all know who McCarrickis, right?
The most notorious sex abuser inprobably the history of the
Catholic Church.
Spellman is widely believed tobe one of the four cardinals who
Belad said was a communistinfiltrator, and Bernadine
himself is accused of raping aneight-year-old girl on an altar.
(10:50):
Yeah.
So these are the people who whocame up with that term and used
it against these are legitvillains, villains that came up
with this, right?
SPEAKER_05 (11:01):
And not the term, the the the well, the term in
the idea, of course.
The term, the idea, all of it.
And we had two popes who wereagainst this stuff, okay?
And the whole purpose of it wasjust so that they could support
liberal politicians.
Exactly what Supic was doing.
SPEAKER_03 (11:15):
Yes, Supich giving Dick Durbin this award was
specifically the protege ofMcCarrick, and hence a protege
of Chicago, and his excuse wasgoing to be well, we're gonna
use the seamless garment ideahere.
SPEAKER_05 (11:29):
You can go and get but the idea is look, maybe
Catholic Cardinals should not begiving awards to any politician
because I have no more supportfor Republican politicians than
I do for Democrats at thispoint.
Like that, so um look, I'mwatching this conversation, and
yesterday I see who's that kidCatholic Christian that we went
at it with.
SPEAKER_03 (11:47):
He does that channel Eric McCabe.
Eric McCabe.
I guess he went after Marshallagain.
SPEAKER_05 (11:51):
He went after Marshall, right?
And it was such slop.
Uh the comment would be lessexplosive if it wasn't in the
context of justifying the givingof an award to a rabbit, but
that's a that's the point,right?
Like that's the whole point ofit.
So Eric McCabe does the video onMarshall yesterday, and I'm
like, all right, I'm I'm goingto try and listen.
(12:14):
And he's he's going throughEvangelium Vitae, John Paul II's
uh, you know, the gospel oflife, and he's trying to put
he's pushing the seamlessgarment, Eric McCabe.
And then when Taylor is talkingabout the death penalty, he's
like, and he's got his neoconpolitics, he's just a neo eric.
(12:40):
Listen to me, this is not aboutpolitics.
No, it has nothing to do withpolitics.
For me, when I came in thechurch, when I like reverted to
my faith, a big part of thereason I reverted to the faith
is because of the church'steaching on birth control.
Seeing the church's teaching onbirth control and that it didn't
(13:01):
cave to the pressure, it waslike it proved infallibility to
me.
It was like this thing where Iwas like, holy cow, like the
church really cannot fail onmorals.
On faith and morals, the churchhas it right.
Now, if you have these previouspopes all saying, including John
Paul II, I mean, it startsgetting a little bit different
(13:23):
under John Paul II, but it'sunder John Paul II, too, where
popes are saying the the deathpenalty is morally licit, but
under these conditions, we'resaying different, right?
But then under Francis, Francisstarts using this language of
inadmissible, and he startsmaking it like it's
intrinsically evil withoutsaying intrinsically evil.
(13:44):
And he changes the catechismincites only himself, and so
yes, so there's all of thesethings that are happening where
the what Marshall's trying tosay is look, if you're going to
say the church cannot err onfaith and morals, but then the
church changes its teaching onfaith and morals.
What you're saying is the churchhas been wrong for 2,000 years,
and that kind of makes the wholesystem collapse.
(14:06):
That's why this is a big deal.
This is also a 20-year-old10-year-old teaching, as opposed
to 2,000 years of churchhistory.
SPEAKER_03 (14:16):
So, like you know, it's a direct contradiction,
it's not a small development,you know, like JP2's was.
Um, it it just turned into adirect contradiction overnight.
SPEAKER_05 (14:28):
So the the people making a big deal of this.
I'm I'm just asking the Pope'splain is to actually hear the
argument here.
This is this is a big deal, andto be gaslit and say, like what
Pine sap said Pine sap says Ihave zero respect for a logging
(14:48):
the Pope.
We get it, Judas.
Daddy didn't show you enoughlove as a kid, and now you gotta
make it make it the vicar ofChrist problem.
Like, shut up, seriously, dude.
Shut like you've been Catholicfor two years.
Are you serious?
What do you know about this?
Like, I I I like you, dude, butlike, come on, stop with the
gaslight.
You don't even know what you'retalking about.
(15:09):
It's gay, stop it.
I'm I'm sorry, like I'm I'm I'mnot trying to like start a
fight, but like this is it'sespecially because you know that
if the Pope said something, uhwell, he did say something about
immigration, right?
SPEAKER_03 (15:26):
And you know that the that Pine sap and the
Groipers would say, Oh, butreally, we about that, you know,
the church is this and this andthis.
It's like, well, the church alsosays a lot freaking more about
the death penalty, but you saywe have to follow the Pope on
that little hippocritical much.
SPEAKER_05 (15:42):
I'm I'm not I'm not I'm not even saying you can't
hold that like you're againstthe death penalty.
Like, you could be against thedeath penalty.
I don't even care, like it'sfine.
You can be against the deathpenalty.
Sure, we have bigger things toworry about, honestly.
Like, I don't care what yourpersonal opinion is on the death
penalty.
What we're talking about is thechurch changing the teaching
from 2,000 years of saying notonly is it licit, but like God
(16:04):
has ordained this from heaven,essentially, that the that the
that the public authorities havethe right to do this, and then
all of a sudden the church islike, nope, this is
intrinsically evil.
It's like you cannot do that,and just expect people to just
be like, okay, no problem.
This is you know, nocontradiction here.
This is this is the stuff thatthe Trads are are are trying to
(16:25):
have the conversation about,right?
And then to have these guys whoconvert under Francis, and I
understand.
Look, I uh here's the thing I dothink guys like Pinesap, even
Eric McCabe, like I do thinkthese are guys of goodwill.
Like, I do understand theirinstinct is to defend the
church, defend the papacy.
(16:46):
They come in from Protestantismwhere there's absolutely no
authority, and then they comeinto the church and they just
want to be good Catholics.
Like, I'm not ascribing bad willto these people, I'm not putting
motives on them.
I think their motives areactually good, their intentions
are good.
But you have to hear theargument from the other side and
(17:06):
understand it.
It's it's it's not just that wewant to trash the Pope.
That too, like I'm like, I'mnot, I'm I don't pearl clutch
over language, I really don't.
I don't pearl clutch on thelanguage, but don't drop the F
bomb in the same sentence you'respeaking our Lord's name.
Like the things like that arelike, come on, like there's this
(17:28):
etiquette.
Like, I don't like I'm not Idon't care if somebody says the
F word, I'm a constructionworker, I hear it all day long.
I'm not gonna cringe becausesomebody said the F word, but
you don't say the F word in thesame sentence that you're
talking about, especially whenyou're typing something out,
like you have when you're typingsomething out, you have the time
to put together a real sentence.
SPEAKER_03 (17:48):
Yeah, you know, you can't say it's it was out of
habit.
No, it wasn't out of habit.
You typed it, but I don't itdidn't just blurt out of your
mouth.
SPEAKER_05 (17:54):
And like I said, like I don't pearl clutch over
somebody saying shit orsomething like that.
Like, I don't care, it's notit's it's the context you're
using it in.
And I tried to talk to himprivately about that.
I'm like, look, it's just it'sjust it's just bad uh because he
dropped an F bomb in the middleof a sentence where he's saying
our Lord's name, and I'm like,dude, it's like borderline
(18:16):
blasphemous.
Like, what do you?
I don't even know what you'regoing for here.
He's like, I don't really havetime if somebody's gonna pearl
clutch over language.
Like, I'm not pearl clutchingover language, I don't care if
you say the F-word two sentencesbefore, it's in that context.
You don't use it, like it's justit's just not good.
And and then he's got videos onhis channel about the the sins
of the tongue.
(18:36):
It's like, what like I don'tknow, like whatever.
I'm not even trying to get onPine Tap.
He just he's just been likehammering the whole oh low IQ,
low IQ uh people criticizing thePope.
It's like, no, dude, you'rebeing low IQ, you're not
actually understanding theargument, and you're car you're
making a caricature of peoplewho are upset about this stuff.
This is legit reasons to beupset.
(18:59):
And even the block of ice thing,no, there's nothing
intrinsically wrong about thePope blessing a block of ice.
We have popes bless cattle, andwe have pope like we go in and
we bring all our stuff, and wehave the candles get blessed,
and holy job gets blessed.
SPEAKER_03 (19:13):
Generally, though, when immaterial objects are or
when material objects areblessed, there are things that
they are things that are goingto be used, generally speaking.
You don't just bless somethingto bless it, usually.
Um, but yeah, I mean the ice,whatever.
SPEAKER_05 (19:28):
But don't care it's the optics of that, it's the
optics of it.
It's like you have the Popealong with the UN, you have
Arnold Schwarzenegger wavingthis, it's just gay and cringe.
And I have news for you.
Like, I'm I'm you guys thinkwe're the ones talking about
this that we're preventingpeople from coming in the
(19:48):
church.
No, that is what's preventingpeople from coming.
I know a list of Protestants whoare interested in Catholicism,
and when they see garbage likethat, they're like, I'm not
coming into this liberalcesspool.
It's insane.
So I don't know what the rightapproach is.
I don't like I don't want to dothe the the hot take of the Pope
(20:10):
stuff.
I really don't.
Tonight isn't really even aboutthe Pope, it's more about the
conversation that Catholics arehaving.
Like, we're I'm watching how theconversation is going, and these
are guys that I like, these areguys that I genuinely like, and
I'm like, how are we going toever form any kind of like a
coherent movement if everybody'sjust talking past each other?
(20:31):
They won't sit and listen, theywon't actually try to understand
the argument coming from theother side.
Like, nothing is going, we'renever going to build momentum
for anything because we're justcrapping on each other.
Every one of us, we're all doingit.
I'm guilty of it too.
I just did it in the beginningof this episode.
I like I genuinely don't dislikePine Sap.
I don't dislike Eric McCabe.
(20:51):
I like those guys.
I'll I'm always open to having aconversation with them.
Um, so wait, I want to see whatuh Catholic Esquire just said.
Uh the problem with the iceblessing was also the pagan
ritual that occurred right afterthe ice blessing in the presence
of I didn't, I didn't actuallywatch all I saw was like images
of it and stuff.
I couldn't, I can't sit throughthat stuff.
It's just so cringe.
(21:12):
Like it's so cringe, it isembarrassing.
All that ice, the Apple Tinisand the extra gold.
It's like I'll ant like some.
It's just the the so yeah, likelike I said, like I'm watching
these this guy like critiqueTaylor and make a caricature of
(21:32):
what he's saying, calling him aneocon and things like that.
And it was just like, I'm like,this isn't gonna work, man.
Like, I can't I don't know if Icould do this for another 10
years.
It's just bizarre, it's morelike 15 to 20, probably.
That and that could be thatmuch.
Now, Taylor had two really goodtakes tonight.
SPEAKER_03 (21:48):
Um see if I can pull them up here.
SPEAKER_05 (21:50):
Yeah, let's pull those up.
SPEAKER_03 (21:51):
Um, I have I have the one I sent you.
SPEAKER_05 (21:53):
I don't let's let's not do the death.
Well, I guess because we'retalking about the death penalty,
right?
We'll start with that.
But the other one was his takeon papal encyclicals because I
have that one ready.
Yeah, let's do the so thecatechism of the council of
Trent on the death penalty.
The power of life and death ispermitted to certain civil
magistrates because theirs isthe responsibility under law to
(22:14):
punish the guilty and protectthe innocent.
Far from being guilty ofbreaking this commandment, thy
shall not kill.
Such an execution of justice isprecisely an act of obedience to
it, for the purpose of the lawis to protect and foster human
life.
This purpose is fulfilled whenthe legitimate authority of the
state is exercised by taking theguilty lives of those who have
taken innocent lives.
(22:35):
In the in the Psalms, we findthe vindication of this right,
morning by morning, I willdestroy all the wicked in the
land, cutting off all evildoersfrom the city of the Lord.
Psalm 10, uh Psalm 101, 8.
Now that's the catechism ofTrent.
Yep.
Now to go from that to the deathpenalty is inadmissible because
of human dignity is violated init.
(22:56):
Like, that's not the same assaying, like, okay, the modern
prison system is different, andwe can actually protect human
life now.
SPEAKER_03 (23:01):
That this is the this is a I mean, so so there's
what uh four 450 years inbetween those two.
Here is something from Pius XII,I think in 1953.
So this is 70 years ago.
Even when it is a question ofthe execution of a man condemned
to death, the state does notdispose of the individual's
(23:24):
right to live.
It is reserved rather to thepublic authority to deprive the
criminal criminal of the benefitof life when already by his own
crime he has deprived himself ofthe right to live.
That was 70 years ago.
SPEAKER_05 (23:38):
Dude, that's that and that's actually true.
Like there are some crimes soheinous that you you like you
give up your right to live.
Yeah, you can commit crimes thatare so heinous that you you give
up your right to live.
You don't you don't have a rightto be amongst like to be amongst
(24:02):
the human population.
It's just you you have tounderstand that this stuff is
very important, and to and to gofrom post-conciliar popes having
our back on this stuff to thenhaving guys who converted under
Francis going into it and likethey their motives are good,
they want to protect the Pope.
They want you know, they want tothey I know what you guys are
doing, I know I understand likeit's a good instinct, it's a
(24:24):
good Catholic instinct you have,but we can't just lie and
gaslight one another, yeah.
And that's from Genesis 9.
Yeah, who so whosoever shallshed man's blood, his blood
shall be shed.
For man was made in the to theimage of God.
So look, the thing is, you'renot you you also have all these
Protestants looking on, right?
(24:45):
And there are many that areinterested in the Catholic
Church, and if we don't actuallyspeak out and say, look, this is
problematic, you're not helpingthem come in at all.
It's it's not helpful, it'sreally not.
So I understand like theconversation around okay, what
should our approach be?
Like, what should how should wehandle this?
(25:08):
Do we want to take the sametactics we did under Francis?
Maybe we should come up with anew approach to things.
I understand that, but to justpretend like the ice blessing
was no big deal, I'm sorry,guys, you're so wrong on that.
That is such boomer cringenonsense.
So, uh Taylor's other take wasthis I have it here.
Modern popes spent years writingencyclicals on a minutiae that
(25:30):
almost nobody reads.
Then they perform on-screengaffs that instantly influence
millions of people.
They don't yet understand howviral influence works.
We can soberly discuss doctrineand ecclesial governance, but
meanwhile, a tidal wave ofProtestants, Orthodox, and
Catholics is are crashing outagainst the papacy, all based on
48 hours of awkward viral PopeLeo content.
(25:52):
This the past 48 hours have beensuch a public relations
disaster, like just a total,especially from the Pope coming
in and saying, I want to be thePope who kind of brings peace to
the situation.
I don't want to continue thepolarization.
I want it's like, look, the umyou guys have throwing me off to
(26:17):
tweet on those comments onscreen.
Um, the oh I just lost my wholetrain of thought.
SPEAKER_04 (26:25):
So bad.
SPEAKER_03 (26:26):
The last 44 hour 48 hours.
SPEAKER_05 (26:28):
The last 48 hours was such a public relations
disaster.
Um that I no, I had like a realreal thought I was going through
it.
SPEAKER_06 (26:39):
I just got totally thrown off.
SPEAKER_03 (26:46):
Well, you think we should talk about our sponsor
because we forgot to do that.
SPEAKER_05 (26:49):
So we'll do that in a second.
We'll we'll I just wanna I wannawrap wrap up these thoughts on
this.
It's just um like you have youhave everything from um this
this cringe oh ohenvironmentalism.
That's what I was gonna say.
Like, so you also have theseguys who are like the Catholic
Church is for the environmentand stuff, and it's like, yes,
(27:09):
like the Catholic Church hasalways dude, I've an obscoporia.
The Catholic Church has alwaysbeen um for caring for creation,
right?
It's like God gave us the giftof creation.
We do we are supposed to be um,you're supposed to conserve your
local environment.
You don't want to litter, youdon't want to treat your
environment like trash, but tocan to inflate that with climate
(27:34):
change and green, like all thesegreen bills that they're paying,
like all of that stuff isleftist infiltration.
And for you guys to run coverfor that, you're running cover
for revolution in the world.
SPEAKER_03 (27:49):
And there's been a ton of studies done that show
that the whole green movement isreally directly related to the
communists, like when you talkabout green movement, you're
really talking about like theRed Soviets, more or less.
So, I mean, the for the CatholicChurch to go from fighting
communism so hard in the 50s andstuff to now more or less being
(28:10):
a big proponent of communistmovement is ridiculous.
SPEAKER_05 (28:13):
And and look, this is this is they're getting swept
up in this because they'resaying, Oh, like care for the
planet, you know, this is allgood stuff.
We we wanna we want to takethese initiatives for clean
energy and things like that, andit sounds real good, but you all
know what's coming with that.
What's coming with that is likedigital ID, what's coming with
(28:35):
that is carbon taxes, thingslike that.
These are all these are allleftist revolutionary things to
to have like dictatorship overyour life.
So for us to just make it like,oh, this is just the Catholic
Church being in favor of theenvironment.
I'm I'm fine with the churchspeaking out about caring for
(28:56):
the planet Earth.
I'm fine with that.
I'm fine with us talking aboutnot, you know, pumping toxic
chemicals into the environmentor polluting our waterways,
things like that.
Those are all good things, butthis climate hysteria stuff is
not that, and it's verydangerous.
Uh, my Protestant friend I'vebeen working on has changed his
mind about the church on a lot,but he said, uh, but he sent me
(29:18):
the Pope's video of this.
These things from Popes havebeen a constant block, convert
friends, family, like constantblock for convert friends and uh
family.
Look, I spoke with Keith Nestortoday, and he was like, Look,
he's never gonna speak publiclyabout the Pope, like he's just
never gonna be that guy.
Mike Pantile, same thing.
These guys are never, butthey're heartbroken because,
(29:38):
like, we all were hoping uhagainst hope that Leo would just
chill out with this stuff, likejust chill out a little bit with
this nonsense.
But he's so that's why I likeall of this kind of pent up
energy came out in the last 48hours, and yeah, it looked like
it was like this hostilitytowards the Pope and stuff, but
I don't like when people ascribeThese motives to trads as if
(30:02):
they have like evil intentionsagainst the pope and they want
to undermine the church, or it'sjust heartbreaking for a lot of
people.
It's heartbreaking, especiallywhen you're dealing with
post-conciliar popes.
It's not like these are eventrads, you're talking about
conservative, just novus ordoCatholics that are feeling this
way.
It's the same reason I'm whenwhen I talked about the trad
(30:25):
movement, like there was thetrad movement under Francis was
a lot more than trad's a lotmore.
It was it was conservativeCatholics because Francis was
taking hits at everybody,calling everybody that liked to
kneel for communion rigid andbackwards and calling us
copophagiacs and things likethat, and it kind of made made a
(30:49):
uh like a lot of people whonormally wouldn't be in the same
group come together, and yeah,and that seemed to be
dissipating.
And I was like, I don't knowwhat's going to happen with the
Trad movement under Leo.
And so the like the first day ofthis, I was kind of like, Oh,
look, everybody's getting backtogether, everybody's you know,
we're we're fighting the sameenemy, which isn't the Pope,
it's leftist ideology, it'smodernism, it's modernism, like
(31:12):
that's what the enemy is.
The enemy is not the Pope, theenemy is these leftists who have
infiltrated the hierarchy, andthey're just pushing this stuff
that we all know is wrong.
We all do, like, even you PopeSplainers, who you're trying to
defend this against all it'sindefensible, but you're trying,
and your motives are good, butyou know deep down, if you're it
(31:36):
like you know it's not good,like if you're if you're arguing
the same position as JamesMartin, as Mike Lewis, as the
the the the lesbian furry withhe him or she she her and her
freaking profile, like you gottathink a little bit about that.
Like you have to think.
(31:57):
It's not you know, it's it's onething to say, well, the Catholic
position is different thanpolitical.
This has nothing to do withpolitics.
I don't like politics, like, I'mnot into politics.
I can't stand the MAGA movement.
I mean, not that I can't standthe MAGA movement, I just think
Trump is not what they want himto be.
I just don't care aboutpolitics.
This isn't about I'm not I'm notfor the death penalty because
(32:18):
I'm a Republican, I don't careabout that stuff.
Um I'm for the death penaltybecause that is what that is
what the church has alwaystaught.
I'm for the death penaltybecause I care about the taking
of innocent life.
That's why I'm for the deathpenalty.
And I I honestly don't let's notlike I I'm you know, I do think
(32:39):
there are plenty of punishmentsthat can be dealt out that don't
have to go to the extreme ofdeath penalty, but it is for the
the inconsistency in the churchteaching.
Like if you're going to flip ateaching like that, what you're
saying is the church can err onfaith and morals, and that is
the whole premise of papalinfallibility.
Everybody's acting like if wecriticize the Pope, we're we're
saying he's infallible.
(33:00):
We're saying infallible.
SPEAKER_03 (33:00):
No, the Pope can err on faith and morals when it's
not uh speaking ex-cathedra.
Right.
But the church can't.
Right, which is why theuniversal ordinary magisterium
or the church teaches that thedeath penalty is listed.
SPEAKER_05 (33:17):
So it's it's not, you know, I I'm just you know, I
think I think the conversationneeds to be had a little bit
differently this time.
I don't want it to be I don'twant it to be gaslight pope
spleeners against conservativeCatholics, and then conservative
Catholics fighting with theTrads, and then the Trads have
their own civil war going onright now.
(33:38):
Yeah, I don't know what we'regonna do here.
I'm tired of the tribalism.
I want to build some kind of amovement here.
I want I want to get people tosit down and have a conversation
because they're all people thatI I I think are valuable in
their own way, they all havesomething to offer, and I think
everybody everybody is going to,you know.
(34:00):
I mean, you go back to the thesolidarity principle of John
Paul II, it's how he broughtdown communism, right?
In a in a way, kind of broughtit down.
SPEAKER_03 (34:09):
I think we're starting to see that it we
didn't bring it down and maybewell who brought down the Berlin
Wall.
It it yeah, yeah.
It realized that uh its bestchance at winning was to uh
Yeah, we're not gonna go there.
SPEAKER_05 (34:23):
Um but I mean that's I that's um what's the Trad
Civil War?
SPEAKER_03 (34:29):
Part of it was uh hold on.
Part of it was Murray and uhSalmons going after each other.
Well, look, man.
By the way, I'm T Murray in thaton that one.
SPEAKER_05 (34:41):
Yeah, I don't know what's up with Salmons lately.
Salmons running Crisis magazine,and he doesn't want to talk
about the crisis.
SPEAKER_03 (34:48):
Salmons is probably too busy worrying about his
other make what his othermagazine is talking about.
SPEAKER_05 (34:52):
One Peter F what is going on.
Oh my goodness.
That's all locals conversationtonight.
We gotta talk about TimFlanders.
I don't know what's going onwith this guy.
I don't know what's happeningwith Tim Flanders.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (35:03):
I don't know.
I don't get it.
I think October 7th is coming upfast.
Tim Flanders.
SPEAKER_05 (35:10):
So uh look now now but you have that whole thing
that we just talked about, andthen you have Dr.
Kważnevsky on Matt Fred today.
It's like this contrast ofeverything going on.
SPEAKER_03 (35:23):
So that was the first besides a couple homilies
I've watched from Father Altierover the last couple of days.
That was the first Catherinecontent, besides her own, that
I've watched in in a year ormore.
SPEAKER_05 (35:38):
I watched like the whole four hours, too.
SPEAKER_03 (35:40):
I did too, and it was yeah, it was good, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (35:43):
Yeah, it was really good.
Um, there's one clip.
SPEAKER_03 (35:47):
What amazed me most is at the end of that four
hours, Kwasneski looked like hewas just getting in his groove,
like he he was ready to go foranother six.
SPEAKER_05 (35:55):
So I I'm pretty sure the conversation was like six
hours long, and it's gonna betwo parts.
Really?
There's another part coming outnext Wednesday, I believe.
Oh wow.
So um, unless he unless heedited it down and crammed it
all into one, but that from whatI understand, it was a it's a
six-hour conversation, and theother two hours comes out next
week.
Sweet.
Um, there was one clip that'srelevant to this conversation
(36:20):
that I kind of want to um I wantto play.
Uh it's the one I wrote Mattasked about discourse between
trads and normies.
Yep.
So it's it's it's a quick minuteand a half conversation, but
it's kind of relevant to whatwe're talking about right now.
SPEAKER_00 (36:36):
Church uh mass nervous normies like me, I
suppose.
And I don't think it'sunfounded, eh?
Is that there seems like there'sthis perpetual cynicism against
whatever the church today issaying, a sort of resistance
against any initiative that'sbeing led by some apostolate.
(36:56):
Uh, so it's like we can'tcelebrate anything, you know.
So, hey, Bible in a year, howgreat is that?
That's the number one podcast.
Modernism.
I don't let me finish becauseI've I want to go on a bit of a
bender here.
Um, you know, or Faustina.
I've heard people say, well,that that that devotion's
satanic.
Or um John Paul II's uh Theologyof the Body.
No, it's one thing to have havelegitimate criticisms about it,
(37:19):
but it's another thing, again,to call it satanic.
And I just think it can't behealthy to live in this
perpetual state of elbows upagainst the mother who's
supposed to be teaching you.
Now, maybe there's good reasonsthat you have to be on guard
given what you've just laid out.
Uh, but I think Novus AutoCatholics, I don't mean to use
that in a disparaging way oranyway, but just those who
(37:39):
attend the Novus Auto Mass, forbetter or worse, don't live in
that position.
They live in a sort of opennessto the church, and maybe that
gets abused, but I think there'sa sort of state of like peace
that Novus Auto Catholics havethat sometimes we don't
encounter.
And I understand that that canbe a character and a straw man
of the average Latin Mass goingCatholic, but sometimes online
(38:01):
you'll see people who are veryangry continually, and you
think, okay, I look at otherLatin Mass Catholics like Teresa
of Lesieux, she didn't have tokeep going on about this.
Whenever I encounter a Latinmass Catholic who I love and
learn from, it feels like we'realways talking about liturgy.
SPEAKER_05 (38:16):
Um what do you think about that?
Um well like him saying like ourlike from the church, like
because I I'll be honest, Idon't I'm not praying the I'm
not praying the Divine MercyChaplet.
I'm not I don't pray theLuminous Mysteries, like I just
I kind of just don't care aboutany of that stuff.
It's like I I pray I pray therosary as Saint Dominic gave it
(38:38):
to us.
I and it's not that I don't haveany hostility towards that
stuff.
I just I just kind of I kind ofview anything after the council
as like I don't know some ofthese innovations.
I'm skeptical, I am skeptical oflike most of the innovations
after the council.
So he's not wrong, like I I I'mI'm he's he's making a fair
characterization, I think.
SPEAKER_03 (38:58):
Um so I mean you and I are both cradle Catholics,
yeah.
Uh and like I I grew up prayingthe rosary all the time.
Um so by the time the theLuminous Mysteries came out, I
was 14.
I've been praying the rosarypretty regularly for eight years
already at that point, and likeyou know, and and I often prayed
(39:19):
with my grandparents who havebeen praying it since they were
kids in the 20s and 30s.
So when they came when all thatcame out, I was just like, yeah,
you know, like like from mymemory, no one cared.
Like, oh new mysteries, I'msure.
SPEAKER_05 (39:37):
Like when I when I first reverted, did I pray the
luminous mysteries?
I don't I don't I mean I I'm notlike in principle against
meditating on different noevents in scripture.
SPEAKER_03 (39:46):
No, I mean and they they they existed before JP2
yeah thought he could just addthem to the Dominican rosary,
right?
They were a separate the the thechaplet of light, it was a
separate chaplet and it had beenfor a while.
So I don't know why they neededfor to be added to the Dominican
rosary when there's so manyother uh chaplets, you know.
The Franciscans have a differentrosary, you know.
(40:08):
There's you have your chaplet,the chaplet of the seven
sorrows, things like that.
Like, so no, I don't have anyproblem with them per like in
and of itself.
I just don't pray them.
I'm not saying I wouldn't praythem, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (40:20):
Like if I were to get too, I'm not, I'm not like
fundamentally against them.
I just I don't have thatdevotion, like I just don't,
they're just not a part of myrosary devotion, right?
But but I do think there'ssomething to the luminous
mysteries leading to the Sonatalmysteries, like I kind of see
all this stuff as likeincremental like steps towards
kind of wackier stuff, and umSt.
(40:42):
Faustina, I just never read herdiary, like I don't and it's not
it's not like out of principleor anything.
SPEAKER_03 (40:47):
I don't I just never read her diary, and that got
popularized like after I grew uptoo, right?
SPEAKER_05 (40:53):
So yeah, and it in it's largely the John Paul II
had a had a had a a love forher, so I think you know that's
right.
SPEAKER_03 (41:02):
Uh and I I don't have any problems praying uh
with people who pray the divinemercy chaplet.
It's just anytime I would praythe divine mercy chaplet, I'd
rather pray the rosary, you knowwhat I mean?
So it um I I do think those whodo rail against both probably do
more harm than good.
SPEAKER_05 (41:20):
Well, okay, so that's kind of what Matt's
getting at is a lot of theconversation.
Uh come all right, so I like theI think it's toxic from both
ends.
Yeah, like I do see what whathappened.
So earlier in the interview,Kwaznewsky says, Look, the the
problem with novus ordo traddiscourse is most trads spent
(41:44):
most of their life in the novusordo and then discover
tradition.
And then we know both.
So like you know both, but likeyou come to tradition, you have
this feeling like I have beenrobbed, and then you kind of get
radicalized by the tradition,and you're like, you have this
militancy about it becauseyou're like, How did they take
this from me?
Right, so that translates intoyour conversations online, and
(42:09):
then people that go to the novusorto interpret your militancy as
judgment, and then and they feellike you're saying the novice if
you attend the novus order,you're less a less Catholic than
me or something, or you're notas good of a Catholic as me.
When the truth is, like youprobably just don't have access
to the Latin mass, and if youdid, you'd probably fall in love
(42:30):
with it because most of the likegood Nova Sordo Catholics I know
would love it if their NovaSorta was more traditional and
there was Gregorian chant andthere was kneeling for communion
and there was no altar girls andthere was no you know women
reading at the lecture and womenlectors and things like that.
Like you would all of you wouldlove all of those things, and
all of those things are justinherent in the Latin mass.
(42:50):
So I don't know why you guyswouldn't just love like you just
would love it if you'd go to it,so but it's not like like it's
not like you're it's your faultthat the hierarchy enacted this
other liturgy, it's uh it's ourour criticisms are for the most
(43:12):
part of of the the itemsthemselves and not of the
people.
SPEAKER_03 (43:18):
Right?
And when we cite statistics thatsay, you know, 51-52 percent of
those who attend the novus ordouh believe abortion is okay,
we're not we're not saying thatthat all those who go to the
novus or believe that or or orthings of that nature.
(43:42):
Uh I guess we are kind ofcondemning those who do believe
that, because we should condemnthose who do believe that.
But um we're we're not sayingthat Novus Ordo teaches it.
Not not not um directly, notexplicitly, no.
SPEAKER_05 (43:56):
Yeah.
But it but there is somethingabout so though okay, so I'll
I'll put it this way.
It when it even comes to dressat the Novus Ordo versus the
TLM, there's something aboutwhen you walk into a TLM where
you feel this pressure to dressnice, and it's not just because
everybody else is dressed nice,like there's something very
formal about the Latin masswhere you're just ooh, this
(44:18):
isn't this isn't casual.
Like I can't, you know, I can't,I don't know, there's something
going on here.
I can't just be in here in my inmy you know gym shorts or
whatever.
SPEAKER_03 (44:28):
Where which is especially interesting because
the um in the Latin mass, thepriest isn't gonna see you, you
know.
He's right, he's facing theother way.
SPEAKER_05 (44:38):
But it's more just like the the um the reality of
it makes yes, that is true,Rob's kids and cross.
The reality of it, there'ssomething that you will just go,
whoa, I I can't dress like thathere, right?
But when you go to a noviceorder, like we were critiquing
the Andrea, what is it?
Bodich uh Andrea Bocelli.
Andrea Bocelli was at a novus orin Italy singing the Ave Maria
(45:04):
in shorts and flip-flops, and itwas just normal, like there's
something so casual about theNovus Ordo.
SPEAKER_03 (45:12):
It's just like you walk in and so I mean at the
cathedral on Saturday forconfession, every and you know,
everyone everyone was in shorts,t-shirts, and I'll be honest,
and that's at a beautifulcathedral, and and I was too
granted.
I could come up with excuseslike we had just come from a
(45:33):
family event and whatnot, butbut um that is the atmosphere,
even as a beautiful cathedral.
SPEAKER_05 (45:39):
Okay, but listen, here's what I'm telling you.
Yes, I wasn't dressedparticularly well for that
confession either, but it wasbecause we knew we were going to
a Novus Ordo Cathedral.
Like if we if we were going toan FSSP for confession, you and
I would have stopped back at thehotel and changed, and then
went.
SPEAKER_03 (45:57):
You're not wrong.
No, I know that is screwed upand wrong in our parts, but it
is what it is.
SPEAKER_05 (46:05):
That's it.
There's because look, and maybemaybe that's uh like when when
Benedict did the mutual umenrichment thing, remember when
Benedict uh like he was like,Oh, we'll have the Novus Ordo
and the Latin Mass at the sameparish, and we'll do mutual
enrichment, you know?
Um, there was a lot most of theenrichment went one way where it
(46:27):
was like if you had a Latin massin a parish, you made fun of a
blind man.
Yeah, all right, but he he knowswhat shorts are, he knows what
he's wearing.
Um, when you um what was I justsaying?
SPEAKER_03 (46:41):
Mutual enrichment benedict.
Oh, mutual enrichment.
SPEAKER_05 (46:44):
Okay, so the enrichment largely went one way.
Um, where if you had a TLM atyour di at the awesome at your
diocesan parish, your noviceorder would start to look a lot
nicer.
The enrichment that went theother way, I think, was um a I
don't know because I've I don'tknow because I can only compare
(47:06):
it to like a an SS an SSPXparish I've a chapel I've been
to or an FSSP, but there'ssomething about if you go to a
diocesan Latin mass and and youryour wife or daughter forgets
her veil, like you're not gonnaget judged for it.
You know, nobody's gonna sayanything.
Where if you walk in an SS SSPXchapel without your veil,
somebody's coming over andgiving you a veil.
(47:26):
Typically, like somebody willcome over and go, No, no, no,
you're mailing.
There's nothing wrong with that.
No, I'm not I'm not saying thereis, I think that's the
enrichment that went the otherway.
It's like informality.
Like, I think that's that's theenrichment.
SPEAKER_03 (47:40):
What's the opposite of an enrichment enrichment
then?
SPEAKER_05 (47:43):
Uh degradation.
Um, yes, you should you shoulddress up for the novice order.
I'm not saying, yeah, obviously,yeah.
If you it's you should bewearing your Sunday best to mess
for sure.
Um, I'm just saying it kind ofbreeds an atmosphere of
informality and you know theliturgy kind of go wearing
whatever formal.
Yeah, it the the liturgy itselfis informal, you know.
(48:06):
So um, yeah, I do think theconversation Matt had um Matt
had with Dr.
K was I think it was importantbecause you're introducing a
largely normy audience to agentle a gentle explanation,
(48:27):
right?
Where instead of this hardconversation that we're
constantly having on Twitter andthings like that, like the the
way we're all having theconversation is um there is an
element of the Novosotors Hassa,of course.
Oh, that that I didn't get tothat yet.
That's right.
So it's not an avoidance or so,yes, that's that's what we do on
our part, right?
(48:47):
Like we come in with this likemilitancy and they perceive
that, but I have I have nevereven if you read the comments in
Matt's video, the people thatare dismissing Dr.
K are not dismissing him on hisarguments, they're dismissing
him with ad hominem attacks,like it's like they feel judged
(49:09):
and they will just lash outbecause they think you're
judging them.
And it's a it's a strange thing,it's like when you criticize
boomers, and every boomer getssensitive about it, except for
Mimi.
Mimi's awesome.
Um, but nice every boomer takesit personally if you criticize
boomers.
Like my dad caught one show ofours, and I criticized boomers,
and he lost it.
He was like, Like, dad, younever watched my show once.
(49:31):
I gotta worry about you watchingmy show and saying so about
boomers.
It's this uh this and it it thatmight be who's late, like
throwing those those comments inMatt's chat, too.
Might be a lot of boomers takingoffense like that, too.
But I've noticed it from allcorners, right?
And this this moniker of radtrad for anybody that even had
(49:55):
the slightest criticism of whathappened in the past 48 hours
with Leo, the the label of radtrad gets thrown at them, like
there's some there's somelunatic.
How dare you criticize the post?
Like, guys, this is this is nutswhat we're watching.
I mean, how do you not criticizeit?
It's it's I don't know.
(50:15):
I I feel like defending it ispreposterous to me, and that was
always I just don't want to dothis for another 15 years, man.
I don't want my I don't want totalk about this stuff.
SPEAKER_03 (50:27):
I've been like and you could ask, you could ask my
that read like a father, uh afather Taylor Marshall SJ to a
read father marshall sj.
You might have to bring him backfor this pontificate.
(50:47):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_05 (50:48):
I've just been um really sad over the last like
day, day and a half.
No, just day one.
I was having a blast.
Like day one, I was even havingfun with like Christopher Hale,
like because Christopher Halewas like gloating beyond belief.
I'm like, you must be in yourglory, right?
SPEAKER_03 (51:08):
We block Grover, no uh, no orthodox watching the
show.
SPEAKER_05 (51:11):
Yeah, he's east he's eastern quote author orthodox.
We won't let him in here.
Um, the the the gloating wasalmost funny.
Like he was he was just like inhis glory.
He's like, Yes, we have a popewho's a liberal, like and you
gotta give those guys their due.
SPEAKER_04 (51:26):
Like, go ahead, go ahead, have your laughs, gloat,
gloat away, is what it is.
SPEAKER_03 (51:31):
Hey, we can at least we know wait where Peter is will
get to survive for a few moreyears, right?
SPEAKER_05 (51:38):
Yeah, I guess.
I mean, it's good, it's just Idon't know, and I don't know
what everybody's approach isgoing to be.
I like okay, so even watching umthe different um the different
groups do the criticism thing,um, I'm seeing people try to
like some people are balancingwhat they're saying, other
(52:00):
people are like, I told youguys, I told you this was
coming.
And the thing is, I actuallyenjoy I think all of those
things have their place, likethey actually do, and we're
going to figure something out.
It's going to take like, do youthink Leo is going to learn from
this and not do this again?
Or do you think this is like thefirst in a series of things to
(52:21):
come?
SPEAKER_03 (52:25):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_05 (52:26):
Uh I I think he's gonna learn from this.
I do.
I think I think the past 48hours, I don't look, I don't
care.
SPEAKER_03 (52:33):
It depends who he really is.
If he's the conciliatory I justwant to make peace with all
sides, then then he'll learn howhow to avoid these optics.
I mean, I think we've learned hehe he's definitely no crat or
(52:55):
even conservative.
I think for sure that nothinglike that.
Um but i if he really is wantsto be conciliatory, he'll learn
from the optics, or maybe hereally is just a this is Francis
2.0 and it will just be thestart of 20 years of this.
This is helpful, yes.
SPEAKER_05 (53:13):
Anthony's an idiot.
Okay, all right.
Um I think I think he'll learnfrom this.
Um I think it it all he couldhave handled the the
conversation with the reporterand just said, Look, I'm not
comfortable uh throwing a foff-the-fly comment on this
(53:34):
situation.
Um, we're talking about thingsbehind the scenes, that's all
I'm gonna say for now.
SPEAKER_03 (53:38):
Like just something like that, and you know, you
know, he could still kind of I'mnot gonna say fix it, but he
could smooth things over bycoming out and make a clarifying
statement.
Like obviously, we we now knowhe believes the death penalty is
I don't know if I want to sayimmoral, right?
But he's against the deathpenalty.
(53:59):
We know we know that for surenow, and we really knew it
before, anyways.
But he could come on and saysomething like, you know, my
statement in no way meant toequate the execution of a
murderer with you know 60million children being aborted.
Yeah, that that would smooththings over.
SPEAKER_05 (54:16):
This is also a very good point, right?
So, what's happening inCharlotte?
The people that are like hopingsomething's going to come and
we're gonna get our breadcrumbsof the Latin mess, it's not
happening.
Like it's not happening.
I I mean, if you I think ifpeople request if the bishops
request permission, they'll getit.
But if you don't requestpermission, I just think he's
gonna say nothing on it.
(54:37):
Like, I don't I can't imaginethe bishop of Charlotte made
that decision after afterbacking off in June and going,
we're gonna wait to hear fromfrom Rome.
SPEAKER_03 (54:46):
So you think TC continues but with less direct
persecution from Rome itself?
I think this I think thedocuments you won't have Roche
going after diocese, but they'renot gonna stop a bishop from
shutting it down in his owndiocese.
SPEAKER_05 (55:02):
A bishop they won't stop a bishop from shutting it
down, and they won't stop abishop from continuing it.
Right, they'll give theextensions when they're asked,
or if a bishop wants to shut itdown, but you also had that
outgoing bishop out of LA whowas going to Texas, Monterey,
and on his way out, he destroysthe TLM, and then on his way in,
he shuts down one in Austin, andshuts the one down in Austin.
It's like these guys are doingum, these guys are doing what
(55:26):
they're allowed to do.
I've been listening to a lot offarther Chad Rebecca's teachings
on YouTube, and I think he'dmake a great pope.
Yeah, so do we all.
SPEAKER_03 (55:34):
He would be so pissed if he was made pope.
SPEAKER_05 (55:37):
Yeah, he's he wouldn't want that.
I still think Maudsley would bethe best pope.
He'd be Maudsley would be theonly Pope that can actually fix
everything.
Um but yeah, all right.
We're gonna we're gonna wrapthis up.
I don't know.
I I hope the gaslighters chillout because this stuff is uh I
like having a guest in a b, butit's great listening to Ant and
(55:59):
Rob discussing.
Thank you, Vince.
Appreciate you.
Uh he shut it down in Austin andat Texas AM.
Yeah, guys, I don't I don'tknow.
I I think I think uh I think weI think the revolution
continues.
The revolution continues, it'snot gonna stop.
No it is, but I I think we dostill need to figure out a good
(56:21):
game plan.
Like, I don't think look, whatlike Rob, you said this last
episode.
You were like, okay, so like dowe do what we did under Francis?
Because what happened, what wedid under Francis just led to a
doubling down, right?
It was like it didn't work.
That strategy didn't work underFrancis, so why would it work
under Leo?
I'm not saying grovel.
SPEAKER_03 (56:41):
I think it might actually work under Leo, to be
honest.
Well, let's see how the let'ssee how if he is kind of squishy
and wants wants to make peace,then the the then the louder we
are, then the more he might beconciliatory towards us.
I don't know.
I'm not saying that's the rightthing.
SPEAKER_05 (57:00):
Yeah, I yeah, it's up in the air.
We'll see.
But what all right, we're gonnawe're gonna go.
I it's just uh don't you daresay that.
SPEAKER_03 (57:10):
Is that a joke or are you serious?
SPEAKER_05 (57:12):
Is that a joke?
That's that's my that's my joke.
Uh did y'all see my commentstoday on papal papal maxing?
Agree or disagree?
I didn't I didn't see that.
No.
No, I did think that your pointabout uh social media and just
the what the what the what canbe done with simple imagery and
(57:38):
memes is very important now.
Like you have way more of aneffect what you do in a
two-minute video soundbite orclip than you ever will in a in
a in a oh or a maxim.
Yeah, you'll you'll have waymore of an impact with the I
mean you see what the last 48hours did, right?
There's way more impact fromthat than you'll ever have from
(58:00):
an encyclical.
The encyclicals are for nerds,like we nerd out on that stuff.
If there's something, you know,we're we're gonna when that when
that inside of the next and thefirst encyclical is gonna be on
the poor and care for the poor.
I think it was started byFrancis, and it's gonna be it's
it's kind of like the um thefirst Francis encyclical was
half written by Benedict andhalf written by Francis.
So that's like the only one thatsounds pretty decent, where like
(58:24):
Benedict is talking aboutevangelizing, and he's like, you
know, before you preach JesusChrist, you should get to know
the person first and stuff.
It's a it's a decent encyclical,but that only the first half,
because that's what Benedictwrote.
Um, whereas we'll see whathappens with this one.
Maybe the second half will bethe better half, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (58:42):
Um we'll see.
SPEAKER_05 (58:46):
Uh, I didn't hear an update on that St.
Rocco's thing.
Say St.
Rocco's definitely getting asomber down.
I don't know.
I don't know who's telling methe truth yet.
Shut down.
I don't know if they're tellingme the truth yet.
I'm gonna I do not know.
SPEAKER_01 (59:03):
I'll have to ask.
SPEAKER_05 (59:06):
That's the one you go to them for the most.
It's Kevin James's parish.
It's my parish, Kevin James'sparish.
Yeah, that's like that's animportant parish in our diocese.
Um, all right, so we're gonnahead over to locals.
We're doing a short local showtonight, but I want to I gotta I
want to talk about one Peter 5and Tim Flanders.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (59:22):
Oh boondog says he was just kidding.
SPEAKER_05 (59:24):
Okay, thank god.
No, seriously, thank god.
Um, Kevin James is Catholic.
All right, we get it, guys.
Wait, wait, wait, Paul Blart.
Yeah, all right, we get it.
I can't do this joke again.
Um, all right, we're gonna headover to locals.
Um, if you guys can please hitlike, subscribe, share the show.
(59:45):
Help us.
SPEAKER_03 (59:46):
Can we talk about our sponsor before we go over to
local groups?
SPEAKER_05 (59:49):
Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_03 (59:50):
We're so terrible at this.
I'm just terrible at this point,Jason and guys over there.
Um okay.
Do you want me?
I'm gonna I'm gonna read.
the actual script they gave us.
Yeah, let's read the script.
Let's hear it.
Um let me just put on the bannerhere.
Okay.
So yeah, this sucks guys.
It wasn't me and Anne.
SPEAKER_05 (01:00:12):
You know what you gotta do?
We gotta give this to Taffy.
You gotta get you gotta givethis to Taffy and let Taffy come
up with a commercial for them.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:20):
Yeah yeah.
Okay, so I'm gonna read one ofthe scripts word for word.
The moral pillars of our societyhave rotten away.
Chewed up by the termites ofabortion, divorce, transgender.
How can I read this script ifit's gonna get our video
canceled, guys?
You gotta think about that.
SPEAKER_05 (01:00:41):
Requisite.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:43):
Chewed up by the termites of abortion, divorce,
transgenderism, and every kindof cultural disease.
If we hope to rebuild anythingfrom this barbarism that just
makes me think of AnthonySavage's comments from like
three years ago.
We need to keep Christ at thecenter of our efforts.
At Requisant Cellars, they wantto draw more attention to the
glorious feast of Christ theKing.
(01:01:04):
So they are hosting a sale forthe entire month of October.
You can get 20% off all theirred wines with code Rex
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Go to RequisantSellars.com waitwait stop I can't get over yeah
this and is definitely gettingus a strike I can't get over the
promo code they chose to be theyasked they're like do you should
(01:01:24):
we make how is that their promocode Rex Colorum who can spell
first off come on it's it'schalorum do you not know how to
pronounce who can spell that Ican't well that's why I'm gonna
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r-e-x c a e l-o r u m for 20%off they should make the pro
they should make the promo codethe Saint Michael prayer in
Latin the whole thing the entireSaint Michael prayer in Latin
should be their promo code.
SPEAKER_05 (01:01:59):
So guys listen that they're looking stop with their
ad listen here's the thing welove recusincers uh they are our
bottle tonight yeah they'rethey're our they are the best
sponsor ever they never tell uswhat we can and can't talk about
they're a family owned um wineryand they sell fruit they sell a
(01:02:20):
bunch of stuff if you guys likeus and you want to support our
show support them because wewould love to keep them as a
sponsor um I I would uh yeahjust go go go support reccucent
they're an awesome Catholicfamily they're they're selling
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great so first off we're gonnacall T H E I R bud yes he got it
(01:02:45):
he he caught us he caught usthis typo we will we will work
on the ad with RecuSynt andwe'll make Rob mispronounce it
every time but all right thankyou guys we're gonna head over
to the other side thank you forsticking around for especially
for that ad read but seriouslyplease buy wine using that code
guys for us yeah yeah pleasewe'll try to we'll see if we can
get a shorter promo code mygoodness yeah promo code vault
(01:03:18):
all right we'll see you guys onthe other side come join us on
locals bye
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