The Catholic Gospel vs The Protestant Gospel

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Tired of surface-level hot takes during Advent? We press pause on the news cycle and dive into Scripture’s living architecture—how David, Solomon, Isaiah, and John converge to reveal a Kingdom that isn’t just future hope but present reality. We walk through the liturgical calendar’s wisdom, the shock of John’s “hour,” and the way Cana’s stone jars unlock Exodus, Numbers, and a new creation pattern. Along the way we confront a popular error: the idea that Christ hasn’t yet established His Kingdom. If the Gospel announces “the Kingdom is at hand,” then the Church is not a holding pattern—it’s the King’s reign made visible in Word, sacrament, and a Eucharistic temple.

We explore Marian typology without sentimentality: Jeremiah’s hidden ark, the overshadowing glory cloud, and why reverence for Mary clarifies, rather than distracts from, the Incarnation. We trace the branch from Jesse through Nazareth, the bread of the presence through David to the Eucharist, and Nathaniel’s fig tree across the prophets. Typology isn’t trivia; it’s how Scripture trains our eyes to see Christ fulfilling every promise. And because grace aims at real life, we talk about family prayer, small rituals that carry children through hard years, and the demanding joy of fatherhood as priestly leadership—authority as sacrifice, not dominance.

If you’ve felt disoriented by church conflicts or exhausted by constant outrage, Advent offers a better way: return to the story, receive the King, and let the calendar shape your days. Come hear how heaven “colonizes” earth through the Church, why obedience grows from grace, and how the Kingdom breaks into ordinary homes through beauty, memory, and the sacraments. Subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review to help more listeners find thoughtful, faith-filled conversations that spark real devotion.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_05 (00:30):
Yeah, this this wasn't like um something we
could have given Taffy somethingtopical on.

SPEAKER_04 (00:37):
No, not so much.

SPEAKER_05 (00:40):
There uh there are some topical things going on,
but um it's Advent, and um I Ikind of feel like we should be
discussing the faith and doingsomething a little deeper during
during Advent and not you knowjumping into biggest story of
the day, things like that.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00):
So it would be nice change of pace.

SPEAKER_05 (01:04):
I think the last few episodes have been good though.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07):
They have, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:08):
Like the last few have been kind of, you know.
I mean, obviously we're coveringthe JQ stuff, and and we have um
e Michael Jones on Thursday,then next Tuesday, Michael
Hitchbourne.
Um, uh there's not gonna be ashow next Thursday because I'll
be away.
Um, and then I think I'm tryingto get Daniel O'Connor on.

(01:28):
I tried to get Joshua Charles ontonight, but I don't think we're
scholarly enough for him, andhe's too good for us now, so he
blew us off.

SPEAKER_04 (01:36):
I mean, he's always been too good for us, he just
realized it.

SPEAKER_05 (01:40):
He uh he said he was busy tonight and he couldn't
come on.
Um, I've okay, so I a fewthings.
I've been watching the the showHouse of David, which you
haven't seen yet, right?
No, not yet.
This freaking show is good, man.
It's good.

(02:00):
It made me it made me want to goback and read like all of the
old testament.
So I'm trying to not do Bible ina year, I'm trying to do Bible
in Advent.
And I'm trying to, I'm trying toget through all of it in Advent.
But then I'm also getting like II got I got distracted because
Joe Rogan started talking aboutum uh the book of Enoch.

(02:24):
So I was reading the book ofEnoch mix, and I'm just I'm just
my brain feels like it's goingto explode.
I have so many things goingthrough my mind thinking about
stuff, but I figured we wouldjump in with that Frank Turk
tweet that I sent to thetelegram because this is kind of
what I what gave me the idea forthe show, but especially with

(02:46):
all the things I've been readingand going through, and how much
Protestants oh, first off, justjust how vile Protestants are
during Advent is reallyunnerving to me.
Really all the time, but yeah,yeah, especially if it feels
like during Advent theyespecially feel the need to like

(03:06):
go at the Blessed Virgin, andit's it's a time of the year
where we're supposed to bereflecting on the most um like
the most miraculous event inhuman history where God becomes
man, and instead of themrevering the woman who God comes

(03:28):
to us through, it's like theyjust they just can't help
themselves.
I I don't know, it's just theconstant Mary wasn't Mary was a
virgin until just the constantonslaught of so many of them are
either Aryan or Nestorian innature that they really don't
even understand you know the theum the incarnation in itself,

(03:52):
yeah.
That but that's right.
So like this this inability toactually meditate on what is
happening during advent.
And you saw it especially whenthey started.
I saw one of the Protestantpastors on Monday said, What did
your pastor preach from thispast Sunday?
And it makes you think about howamazing the liturgical calendar

(04:13):
is.

SPEAKER_04 (04:14):
At least the traditional one, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (04:17):
But they're kind of aligned during Advent.

SPEAKER_04 (04:21):
During, yeah, yeah, they are.

SPEAKER_05 (04:22):
They're kind of aligned during Advent.
The the the traditional uhreadings and the Novus Ordo
readings are pretty similar.
I mean, there might be adifferent reading this week, and
then they pick that one up nextweek in the Novus Ordo.
But we're we're reflecting onthe end of the world, right?
So you're going through Matthew24, um, and you're you're you're

(04:43):
you're anticipating the comingof Christ in as a as a child,
and you're also anticipating thesecond coming of Christ, or
really the third coming ofChrist, because he comes to us
in the Eucharist at every mass.
But um, but the liturgicalcalendar is such a treasure that
the church has because youunderstand the rhythms of how

(05:05):
you're supposed to live thefaith, it brings you through
these seasons, and I wasthinking about that while
reading the book of Enochbecause it's talking about the
principalities that aregoverning the world and how the
sun rises, and it's really aprincipality that makes the sun
rise because there really arejust intelligences, and man,

(05:26):
there's just so much going on inthe world right now.
Let's do the Frank Turek thingfirst.

SPEAKER_04 (05:31):
Let's take care of all of our house cleaning, house
clean, yeah, housekeeping stuff.

SPEAKER_05 (05:37):
Okay, so we we actually just somebody just
reached out to us.
We're not gonna announce yet,but somebody just reached out to
us to advertise.
We're hoping that one comesthrough.
We'll see what that is.
But for now, we do still haveReckus and sellers, and we do
love Recus and sellers.

SPEAKER_04 (05:52):
They are put a little bit more respect on their
name.

SPEAKER_05 (05:55):
Very big supporters of Avoiding Babylon.
The only sponsor now they're allwe have, they're they're all we
have at the moment.
They are the first real businessthat was willing to sponsor us.
Um, reccues and sellers use codebased at checkout for 10% off.
We should get them to do aChristmas sale, Rob.

(06:16):
We should because I because Ithink people would want to bring
a nice bottle of wine to theirChristmas dinner.

SPEAKER_04 (06:22):
I I brought four bottles to my Thanksgiving.
I well, I forget, I didn't tellyou the story, I told Adrian the
story.
So I bring four bottles to my mycousin's house for Thanksgiving,
and then we have like 50, 60 ofus there from my mom's side, and
um, you know, most of us on thatside are well, we were all
nominally Catholic.
There's a few still practicinglike me, but but anyways, my

(06:44):
cousin who is um who travels alot, her and her husband had
gone to the Vatican at somepoint during Francis Francis's
pontificate.
Anyways, I bring out the wine,and you know, they see that it's
it's Catholic themed.
And uh my my cousin's husbandgoes, Hold on, hold on.
I got something perfect forthis.

(07:04):
Let me bring out the pulpener.
I'm like, the pulpener?
The popner?
What what is the popener?
It is exactly what you think itis.
It's a bottle opener that lookslike pop printers.
It's a bottle opener with PopeRantis on it.

SPEAKER_05 (07:18):
I'm like, well, first off, it's not exactly
perfect because this is a winebottle, not a it doesn't have a
pot, but the it's uh thekitschiness of the Vatican is
like when you go to those giftshops and stuff, it's pretty
bad.

SPEAKER_04 (07:34):
But but they all they they all love the the wine,
and my cousins like she'll go toNapa Valley and stuff for wine,
so she loved it, and that meansit's pretty good stuff.

SPEAKER_05 (07:45):
It it really is amazing wine.
Uh, they're an awesome Catholicfamily, they support everything
we do, even when we dive intothe muck at times.
But um, yeah, please go supportthem.
They are also uh fruit, a fruitfarm.
Um, and they should they if theydon't ship wine to your state,
they do ship fruit to yourstate.

(08:05):
So go check them out.
We love artists and sellers.

SPEAKER_04 (08:08):
Think about it.
They basically had a guaranteethat they could never get Lila
Rose.
Uh you know, they could neversponsor her, they could sponsor
us.

SPEAKER_05 (08:16):
No way, definitely not.
They are not Catholics.

SPEAKER_04 (08:20):
I mean, they could even make a rose wine just for
that, and she'd be like, No way.

SPEAKER_05 (08:24):
That would guys, you dropped the ball.
I have to be honest.
Yeah, you guys could advertiseon Lila Rose's podcast with a
rose, probably a wine mom.
Uh um, that and also look, it'sthe end of the year, and I know
every one of these otherCatholic shows are doing this,

(08:44):
so we're gonna do it.
Um, we're gonna put it up.

SPEAKER_04 (08:47):
He means grift harder.

SPEAKER_05 (08:48):
Yeah, look, the thing is, Rob and I want to
continue doing this.
Um, we just spent a ton of moneysetting up an LLC and getting
our businesses business set up.
So if you guys want to do alittle end-of-the-year Christmas
gift for us, Rob set somethingup on the website.
You guys could throw a littletip our way, a little bonus.

SPEAKER_04 (09:06):
Um, uh this QR code will bring you right to it.
And it's um you bit well, if youdon't use the QR code or the
link I just put in the chat, youjust go to
www.avovoidingbabylon.com andyou click on the donate link,
and that will bring you to thispage.
And I set this up in 10 minutes,so I'm sorry, but you can only

(09:30):
do it in five dollar increments.
So it starts off with five.
If you want 50, you gotta do 10quantity of five dollars.
Oh my gosh.
I told you I did it 10 minutesbefore the show.

SPEAKER_05 (09:45):
He'll get that fixed though.
We'll figure that out.
I'll figure it out.
Yeah, we'll figure that out,we'll get that fixed.

SPEAKER_04 (09:51):
But listen, the thing is this is this goes
directly to us.
Yeah, middleman.

SPEAKER_05 (09:56):
There's no there's no YouTube taking 30 from us or
locals taking 30.
So if you guys do enjoy theshow, we do put a lot into it.
I had a day from hell today.
I worked in status.

SPEAKER_04 (10:07):
Thank you very much, Rob.
Oh, um, yeah, I was gonnaannounce this too.
With the traveling in the latthe my schedule the last two
days, I don't think I'm gonna dothe advent meditations because
I'm three days behind.
I'm gonna be traveling laterthis month.
I think I'll do Sundaymeditations for the second,

(10:28):
third, and fourth Sundays.
That's probably all I can reallygive you guys.
So sorry about that.

SPEAKER_05 (10:33):
No, but what we're going to do, we're going to try
and do some deeper shows duringAdvent.
So even tonight, like uh theyeah, we have that.
I'm I'm going to tell you guysnow.
We have kind of like a okay.
I'm good, but um, well, we couldjust do a review of the show,
but I'm going to give you guysmy review tonight of it.

SPEAKER_04 (10:54):
Um, I think we should do episodes like we did
The Chosen.

SPEAKER_05 (10:58):
It this show is so much better than The Chosen,
it's not even comparable.
It is I it is done at a level umlike it it feels like an HBO
series that if it wasn't about abiblical series you would watch
week to week gripped.
That's how well it's done.

(11:18):
It's very well acted.
The accents aren't nearly as asover the top as the chosen.
It's it's a really well doneseries, but it sparked in me
this desire to go back and readfirst and second Samuel, and
then I got into right now.

SPEAKER_04 (11:34):
Um I just finished first what are we?
A bunch of modernists here.
What first and second Samuel'sis first and second kings, and
that first and second kings isthird and fourth kings.

SPEAKER_05 (11:46):
Oh, I don't have that in my Bible.
I don't know.
I gotta get isn't the DeweyReams.
I just have the app.
I don't know.
Oh, okay.
I'm just reading it on the Ithink I used the EWTN Bible app.
I don't know.
My wife actually just ordered methe Ignatius Catholic Study
Bible for Christmas, so we'llI'm gonna get that.
But um it made me want to goback and read first and second

(12:06):
Samuel, which I did.
Then I got through first kings.
I like I I just finished readingabout Samuel building, I mean uh
Solomon building the temple andstuff, but there's so many
things in the show that you pickup on that you recognize from
the gospels that uh we'll getinto on after the strangter
clip.

SPEAKER_04 (12:23):
So like it actually shows typology and stuff in the
show.

SPEAKER_05 (12:26):
Oh, it does.
Well, well, you can't help it.
If you're showing the story ofDavid, all you see is Christ,
like it's this constant barrageof just seeing the the
foreshadowing of Christ coming,you know.
If you if you're if you have amind to pay attention to it,
right?
But it also made me want to goback and read the psalms, it
made me go back and read Isaiah.
I've been I've been all over theplace just actually reading at

(12:50):
night before bed, and it'spretty awesome because we suck
as Catholics at reading theBible, but it brings the New
Testament to life when you knowthe old testament, and the
things that Jesus is doing, eveneven the the boring genealogy in
Matthew, when you understand theold testament and you see the

(13:12):
descendants in in first andsecond Samuel, and then in first
and second kings, and you seethat Christ is the divinic king,
the descendant of David, it justbrings everything to life, and
and understanding that theprophecy in Isaiah about a a
branch will come from the shoot,uh a branch will come from the

(13:34):
stump of Jesse.
And knowing that the the Davidis a son is the son of Jesse,
and God promises David that hewill have this everlasting
kingdom, but then the kingdomgets snuffed out after the after
the northern kingdom breaks offand the Assyrians come in, and
then the Babylonians come in,and you just there's a total

(13:57):
snuffing out of the Davidicline.
And you read in uh Isaiah, hesays a a branch will come from
the stump of Jesse.
And then then you have to thinkabout that Jesus comes from
Nazareth, and Nazareth meansbranch.

(14:19):
Different from Lazarus.
Yes, Nazareth means branch.
And all these different thingsare just you're seeing that the
Davidic line is snuffed out, andthen a shoot like a shoot pops
out of the stump, and theDavidic line is reinstated.
So I want let's do the let's dothe I did see um uh a tweet this

(14:42):
week that um made a good pointthat I had never thought of
before.

SPEAKER_04 (14:46):
You have you know obviously uh the the gospels
show us how how Christ is in theline of David, right?
Um, through both Mary and Josephuh on both sides.
If as Protestants believe, Jesushad brothers.
Why did the like yeah, that thatthat's why were there not

(15:06):
divinic kings after him?

SPEAKER_05 (15:08):
That is my friend Lewis's uh thread.
Yes, my friend Lewis put thatthread out, who's in the chat
right now, by the way.
Is he?
Um Lewis is in the chat rightnow, and he had actually spoken
to Mr.
Casey because he started layingthis out.
Mr.
Casey contacted him and he dm'dand he said, Lewis, I want you

(15:28):
got to put this in a thread andreally lay it out.
And and Lewis put the wholethread out.
It was like very well done.
Now, Lewis is I I think he'sstill a catechumen, like he's
he's becoming Catholic thiscoming Easter.
Um, he's one of my favoritepeople.
Uh, he's if you ever see hisfood reviews, they're pretty
amazing.
I uh I can't bring myself toactually watch, they're pretty

(15:51):
amazing, but uh, I was even so Ihave a group chat for my um for
my excribers.

SPEAKER_04 (15:58):
Throw a throw a link to that tweet in the chat for
everyone if you can.

SPEAKER_05 (16:02):
Um, so I have a I have a group chat for my
ex-subscribers that we all talkwith each other and stuff, and I
was telling them about readingthe old testament.
And TLM Ryan, who's been on thisshow, he's like, I've I've I've
never really read a lot of theold testament, too, and I blame
that entirely on the oldtestament because it's very
tedious at times.
Like there are times where theold testament gets tedious.

SPEAKER_04 (16:24):
I just love how not even your business partner gets
in your your X Group chat.

SPEAKER_05 (16:28):
You gotta subscribe on X group.

SPEAKER_04 (16:29):
I have to pay you to get into your X group chat.
That is egregious andunbelievable.

SPEAKER_05 (16:36):
You don't want to be you get enough of me.
You know, you do not needanother group chat with me.
No, I do not.
Um, so but we yeah, we we wediscuss we discuss a lot of
things in there, but yeah, Ryanwas like, Yeah, I'm I'm I the
like a lot of the guys in thegroup chat are starting to read
the old testament because of thestuff we've been talking about
and stuff.
But let's go.

(16:57):
Let's let's finally get to theFrank Turk tweet because he
discusses what is a heresy inthis.
It he does discussdispensationalism and the Jews.
We're not gonna do the Jew thingtonight because we have EMJ on
Thursday and we'll be we'll justbe discussing the Jews plenty
with my love how right behindhim is uh is a screen capture
from a Catholic film, a Catholicfilm.

SPEAKER_04 (17:21):
These people are they that oblivious?

SPEAKER_06 (17:25):
All right, let's let's listen.

SPEAKER_03 (17:26):
Over the last couple months, I've basically been on
online a lot, as most Zoomersare.
Um, and I've seen a really largefaction on the right go
anti-Israel.

SPEAKER_04 (17:36):
But what's been trust me, dude, you are not that
faction of the right.

SPEAKER_03 (17:40):
I can tell just from looking at you.

SPEAKER_04 (17:43):
That is not the base Zoomers I know.

SPEAKER_03 (17:46):
And concerning me the most has been I've seen this
growing faction in Christendomthat's basically kind of
starting to pounce on what youwould call a dispensationalist
or Christian Zionistperspective, yeah, you know,
labeling it heresy and stufflike that.
And at first I thought it wasjust like, you know, social
media distortion, whatever theusual Nick Fuentes types, but

(18:06):
I've had friends and familymembers even tell me that, you
know, holding any sort ofChristian Zionist or
dispensationalist perspectivesis like straight up Christian
heresy.
And I'm used to hearing thatfrom Catholics and stuff, but
like now that I'm hearing likewho are seemingly ardent, you
know, fellow Protestantbelievers, evangelical saying
this, like I guess I'mwondering, what do you where do

(18:27):
you think this is coming from?
And what do you think is thebest way to handle that as an
evangelical Christian?
That yeah, maybe not I'm notnecessarily a dispensationalist,
but I don't think it's good tolabel that heresy.

SPEAKER_02 (18:38):
Right.
Well, a good question to askthem is what is a heresy?

SPEAKER_05 (18:42):
Yeah, and and because that is a good question
to ask.
What is a heresy?
Because a heresy is is thatwhich does not line up with
Catholic doctrine, and it hasalways been what heresy is.
If you do not align with thechurch's doctrine or dogma, you

(19:05):
are a heretic.
But it's funny to listen toProtestants discuss heresy, and
I just thought when he saidthat's a good well, what is a
heresy?
Now listen to what his opinionof heresy is, because the
biggest heresy is the one hesays is not a heresy.

SPEAKER_02 (19:22):
You don't it's all the scriptura.

SPEAKER_05 (19:25):
No, even worse.

SPEAKER_02 (19:26):
Okay.
When it comes to eschatology,the only true heresy is
preterism, which means peoplewho think that everything that
happened in the Bible, includingthe book of Revelation, has
already happened, that Jesus hasalready come and set up his
kingdom.
It's quite obviously he hasn't.
Okay.

(19:47):
The other eschatologicalviewpoint is not a heresy.
And people who are Biblebelievers and scholars will
argue over is itdispensationalism, is it
historic dispensationalism, youknow, is it preterism, partial
preterism, is it, you know,postmillennialism, all
millennial, you know, all thesedifferent viewpoints.

(20:07):
Is there a rapture?
Is there not a rapture?
I just tell people look, I'm noton the planning committee, I'm
on the welcoming committee.
All right.

SPEAKER_03 (20:17):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 (20:17):
And when Jesus comes back, I'll welcome it because
the main point I wanted to bringup, first off, uh thank you,
Mimi.
You are amazing.
We love you.
Um, the the main point I don'tknow what praetorism is because
I really don't know is like hesaid, it's the belief that um
that revelation was written byJohn and it already took place,

(20:42):
right?

SPEAKER_04 (20:42):
Like 6666 is referring only to Nero Caesar,
things like that.

SPEAKER_05 (20:48):
But the main issue with what he said was is that
the kingdom has not come andJesus did not set up his
kingdom.
Because if you say that Jesusdid not set up his kingdom, you
are calling him a liar becausethe whole gospel itself the
kingdom is at hand, repent forthe kingdom of heaven is at
hand, right?

(21:08):
And going back and reading theold testament, especially once
you get because the whole thewhole like the book of Genesis
and Exodus are are leading up tothis uh Davidic dynasty.
Now, when you start seeing theDavidic dynasty like come into

(21:31):
come into shape, and all ofthese uh promises that are made
to David, to say that Christ didnot set up his kingdom is to
call him a liar.
It it really is.
So Christ Christ promises thekingdom, and what we get is the
church.
So there's there's uhProtestants who actually believe

(21:52):
that there is a gap fromChrist's ascension until he'll
set up his kingdom at the end oftime.
But no, the whole point of whatJesus is saying is that heaven
is colonizing earth.
Yeah, that that yes, his hiskingdom he is a new Solomon,
like he he's constantly talkingabout who who is the first

(22:17):
person in the Bible to be calleda son of God?
It's Solomon.
Like Solomon, so David's a likeSaul is anointed, David's
anointed, but Solomon, when he'sanointed, God calls him his son,
like you are my son.
He's the first one to be calledhis son.
Now, God does say, tell Pharaoh,Israel is my firstborn son, but
that's kind of a collectivething.

(22:37):
But the first person inscripture to be called the son
of God is Solomon.
He's like the first little seaChrist.
And you see, Jesus, when he goesin and he's like, tear down this
temple, and in three days I willbuild it up.
He's saying, I am the newSolomon, I am, I am the
descendant of David, and I'mgoing to set up my kingdom.

(22:59):
And he does when he rebuilds thetemple of his body, like that
that that whole understanding ofwhat the temple is in the Old
Testament, because I justlistened to the building of the
temple by Solomon.
And it's one of the funniestthings when you think about all
the all the um hand wringingthat Protestants do about us and
our images, because if you readabout the images that Solomon is

(23:22):
making them put into the templeabout these winged angels that
their wingspans are 10 cubitswide and it goes from wall to
wall in the Holy of Holies,yeah.
Uh feeling led from Baptist toCatholic, and there's so much
deeper theology, but so much tounlearn.
So, well that what that's kindof what we're going to get into

(23:43):
tonight to to really help yousee how these things that we're
seeing in the in the gospel isJesus showing how he is the
fulfillment of the Davidiclineage, and that's why they're
they're yelling, son of David,son of David, heal me, you know.
They're they all see him as thedescendant of David, and he does

(24:04):
set up his kingdom, but hiskingdom is a Eucharistic
kingdom.
So when you when you know whatthe temple is for the Jews, it
is they're everything.
There's only there's tons ofpagan temples throughout the
world during this time, right?
But Jupiter has 20 differenttemples to Jupiter, you know,
and and uh you know, namewhatever Mars has temples to

(24:27):
Mars, but there's multiple, butthere's only one temple in in
Judaism or it for Israel, andthat's the temple, and it has
the holy of holies that's thatonly the high priest can go in
once a year.
And it if you're a Jew anywherein the world, you have to come
back to to ju to to Jerusalemfor the Passover, or your

(24:51):
firstborn son dies.
Like you can't just be a Jew outand about in the world, you need
to be in Jerusalem at the timeof the Passover to sacrifice
your lamb to to celebrate thePassover.
What Christ is doing throughoutthe entire New Testament is
setting up a new uh Passover anda new exodus.

(25:12):
When he when you go to the scenewhere Jesus at the
Transfiguration and he's therewith uh Elijah and uh Moses, he
is discussing with them uh hisnew exodus.
Right?
So so Moses is taking them uhfrom slavery in Egypt into the
promised land, Christ is takingus from slavery to sin to

(25:36):
freedom.
It's this idea that the gospelis just believe in Jesus and you
will go to heaven is such anarrow uh minuscule view, and it
doesn't at all account foreverything God did.

SPEAKER_04 (25:54):
And no, and in a sense, you can you could say the
like the Exodus, the thewandering in the desert for 40
years is is a prefigurement ofof purgatory, right?
They couldn't enter wandering inthe desert, they couldn't enter
the holy land until thatgeneration had been purged,
basically.

SPEAKER_05 (26:13):
Um yeah, the the thing is like every once in a
while I I get these um like withthe liturgical calendar, yeah.
The liturgical calendar isamazing though because every
year around Advent and everyyear around Lent, it's the
church knows that we have theseseasons in life where you kind

(26:36):
of you drift, you know, that thethat you need these times of
penance to kind of gather yourfaith back together because you
kind of get distracted by thethe the the regularness of life
and you know how how mundaneeverything is, and God really
does set my heart on fire everyAdvent and every Lent.
And going back and reading thestory, especially, it makes you

(27:01):
think about like what God reallydid.
And especially that time periodwhere the where the kingdom of
Israel is split and the Davidicline is crushed, and the the
Babylonians come in, theydestroy the temple.
There's a period where everyonehad to feel like God lied, like
what he made these promises thatthis Davidic kingdom will be

(27:25):
everlasting, and then they justthe whole thing just got snuffed
out, and it was there wasnothing.
And especially for us asCatholics, like what one of the
big things that you really pickup on when you're going through
first and second Samuel isDavid, even though God anoints
him and tells him he's going tobe king, Saul is still alive,

(27:48):
and David is just loyal to Saul,no matter what Saul does.
Saul tries to kill him multipletimes, like it's pretty pretty
crazy how many times Saul triesto kill David.
And David, there's there's ascene where he's Saul is
sleeping in a cave, and Davidtears off a piece of his
garment, and then he's standingout on the hill and he's like,

(28:09):
Look, I could have killed you.
I'm so loyal to you, Saul.
I would never, you know.
There's another time he he goesin and he steals his spear where
he was alone with with Saul andhe could have put the spear
through his heart, and hedoesn't.
He just takes the spear andshows him, Look, I was alone
with you, I could have killedyou.
This period where they loseeverything.

(28:32):
Any one of them could have beentempted to just go, man, this
whole story was just bunk, itwas just nonsense.
And I feel like we're kind ofliving through a period like
that in the church right now,where like the church doesn't
have all of its not everythingis as certain as it once was,
and it kind of you know, we'rewe're like, what's going on with
papal infallibility here?

(28:53):
You know, we've seen some shadyshady stuff over the we said the
S word.
We've seen some shady stuff overthe past couple of pontificates.
What's going on here?
But I think it's a test of faithfor a lot of us, and like just
just seeing what God did in thattime where there it was very
easy to to just go, man.
This the story was no way, butto remain faithful during those

(29:16):
times is such a an amazingthing, and I'm telling you, God
liked my heart up twice a year,and it's always when I need it
the most because I'm just kindof distracted and not paying
attention to things, and it it'sit's um it's important that we
go back and remember the story.
So um going through thegenealogies in Matthew will will

(29:39):
look you'll have more meaningthere.
Um going to uh even oh man, inJohn 2, when John meets
Nathaniel, it reminded me of youwhen I was reading it today.
What Philip goes to Nathanieland he goes, Come and Come and

(30:00):
meet uh come man, you might haveto pull John 2 up so I get it.

SPEAKER_04 (30:03):
Okay, let me pull it up.

SPEAKER_05 (30:05):
Pull John 2 up.

SPEAKER_04 (30:06):
Do you remember the argument that we had back in the
trivia days about Nathaniel?
About Nathaniel, who it was thatwas it Nathaniel and
Bartholomew, right?

SPEAKER_05 (30:17):
Yeah, yeah.
Um John chapter 2.
Is that where's the calling ofNathaniel?
Is that John three?

SPEAKER_04 (30:25):
Uh two is the scourge.

SPEAKER_05 (30:27):
What was it?
Wait.
Oh, it's John one.
It's John one.
So Philip found Nathaniel andsaid to him, We have found him
of whom Moses and the law, Mosesand the law, and also the
prophets wrote, Jesus ofNazareth, the son of Joseph.
Nathaniel said to him, Cananything good come out of
Nazareth?
It made me think of you going,Can anything out of Long Island?

SPEAKER_04 (30:48):
Or just my skepticism in general.

SPEAKER_05 (30:52):
But that but that line is actually important to to
know what's going on there.
It's Philip is sayingNathaniel's saying, can anything
good come out of Nazareth?
But that's a reference to theshoot of Jesse because or the
branch of from the stump, likethat Jesus is from the stump,
right?

(31:13):
And um, and then uh Jesus sawNathaniel coming and he said,
Behold, this is an Israelite inwhom there is no guile.
Nathaniel said, How do you knowme?
And Jesus said, Before Philipcalled you when you were under
the fig tree, I saw you.
Nathanael answers him, Rabbi,you're the son of God, you're
the king of Israel.
And it's like, Wait, I saw youunder the fig tree, and that you
that now he's the he's themessiah.

(31:36):
Like, what do you mean?
Like he could have just saw youor something.
But all of these are referencesto the old testament.
Um, like uh, let's see.
Um especially that one.
Hold on, that's a that's animportant one.

(31:58):
Oh man, where'd I put it?
I wrote it down so I wouldn'tforget.
So um in Isaiah 11, uh, Isaiah11:1, there shall come forth a
shoot from the stump of Jesse,and a branch shall grow out of
its roots, and the spirit of theLord shall rest upon him, the
spirit of wisdom andunderstanding, the spirit of
counsel and might, the spirit ofknowledge and the fear of the
Lord.
Like that is that is a directreference to that shoot, right?

(32:22):
And then the there's somethingfrom Zechariah too.
I gotta find that out.

SPEAKER_04 (32:31):
Start at verse eight.
Okay, give me a second, let mepull it up.

SPEAKER_05 (32:34):
Zechariah three, verse three.

SPEAKER_04 (32:38):
Uh hear, O Jesus, thou high priest, thou and thy
friends that dwell before thee,for they are portending men.
For behold, I will bring myservant the Orient.
For behold, the stone that Ihave laid before Jesus, upon one
stone there are seven eyes.
Behold, I will grave the gravingthereof, saith the Lord of

(32:58):
hosts, and I will take away theiniquity of that land in one
day.
Okay, that day.

SPEAKER_05 (33:04):
Well, I was gonna say, like, so he's telling
Nathaniel, you're an Israelitein whom there is no guile.
Now, I think if you keep going,he to he it gets to where the
fig tree, right?

SPEAKER_04 (33:15):
And that day saith the Lord of hosts, every man
shall call his friend under thevine and under the fig tree,
under the fig tree.

SPEAKER_05 (33:21):
So, like Nathaniel, Jesus is like, I saw you under
the fig tree, and Nathaniel'slike, You're the son of God, and
it's it's like that's kind of acrazy response to just saying I
saw you under the fig tree, butall of these are allusions to
the old testament.
So if if you what did you read,did you read from Micah?
No, what's that?

SPEAKER_04 (33:39):
Okay, so so Micah uh chapter four, um uh starting in
verse three, and he shall judgeamong many people and rebuke
strong nations afar off, andthey shall beat their swords and
a plowshares and their spearsand the spades.
Nation shall not take swordagainst nation, neither shall
they learn war anymore, andevery man shall sit under his

(34:01):
vine and under his fig tree, andthere shall be none to make them
afraid, for the mouth of theLord of hosts hath spoken.

SPEAKER_05 (34:08):
There's so there's all these references, right?
So the the point is when whenyou hear Protestants talk about
the gospel just being like thisheaven, like like just believe
the right thing and you go toheaven.
It's such an underestimation ofwhat God really did.
And in setting up that kingdom,his spirit covers the earth and

(34:32):
it and and the gentile heartsare circumcised and throughout
the entire world, like all ofthe pagan nations submit to
Christ the King.
To say his kingdom hasn't beenset up, like that is one of the
most damnable heresies ever.

(34:53):
Because the whole point is thathis kingdom is set up.
So when you see these Catholiccathedrals that they they always
will say, why doesn't the churchgive its money away?
It's like, no, no, no, you'relooking at a castle of the king
on earth because heavencolonized earth, and which
literally includes a seat of thesuccessor of the apostles, which

(35:14):
is basically a throne of heaven,like you literally have a throne
of heaven sitting there in thatbuilding on earth, and and
Christ tells the apostles youwill sit upon thrones as
principalities judging the 12tribes of Israel.
Like this stuff is so importantto miss it.
You're just missing everythingGod really did.

(35:37):
And it's not it's not just aboutheaven, it's about it's about
it's about now, right?
It's it's like to to man, theyhave such such a a hang up.

SPEAKER_04 (35:52):
Yeah, because because the kingdom isn't just
heaven, right?
It's not just at the end oftime, um, you know, it's because
the the kingdom is the church,and the church has the church
triumphant in heaven, the churchsuffering in purgatory, and the
church militant here on earth.
Like the kingdom has beenestablished here on earth, it
has been established 100%, andit's also in our lives.

SPEAKER_05 (36:13):
Like, how are we bringing about the kingdom
because we serve the king andeverything we do?
We're we're a representative ofthe king, like the whole idea of
baptism and taking on the nameof the Father, the Son, and the
Holy Ghost.
Like, you're doing that becauseyou've just received divine
adoption, because the gospel isreally about divine adoption,

(36:35):
right?
Like it's it's it's yeah, it'severything, especially when we
went through Genesis and we'relearning about the birthright,
supposed to go to the firstborn,and it ends up going to the
second born, which is a symbolof the birthright supposed to go
to Israel, but it ends up goingto the Gentile nations.
But it's really about thebirthright that's supposed to go
to the Son of God, ChristHimself.

(36:58):
We now have an inheritance inthat.
Like that, that Christ is ourbrother, and that we have an
inheritance with the Father now,that everything he had for his
son is now going to be ours.

SPEAKER_04 (37:14):
Just like how how Joseph, who was the Joseph of
the Old Testament, was aprecursor of Christ, shared
everything he had in the kingdomof Egypt with his his brothers.

SPEAKER_05 (37:34):
But I'm trying to get through, I'm trying to get
in during Advent.
I want to finish first andsecond chronicles, and I want to
get through all the prophets,and I want to get through
Maccabees because Maccabees isthe period leading up, it's like
what is it, a hundred yearsbefore Christ, right?
Some somewhere around there,yeah.
A little more than that, maybe,but like you know, a hundred or

(37:56):
two hundred years before Christ.
Because when you're thinkingabout the like David, David's
like a thousand years beforeChrist.
So all these promises are beingmade.
700, I think.
Yeah.
I mean, it has to be it has tobe 800, right?
Because if the if the northernkingdom is is separated for 700
years, right?
It's probably it's probably like900 years, like Isaiah's

(38:18):
prophesying like 900 yearsbefore Christ.
Yeah, right.
So if you even look at thebeginning of uh the Passion,
it's like 900 BC, and it's andit says Isaiah 53, he was
pierced for our transgressions.
So yeah, so David's David'salmost a thousand years before
Christ, that these promises arebeing made, but they just unfold

(38:39):
so slowly.
But the scenes in in the houseof David where Samuel goes and
takes rips the kingdom away fromSaul, and then you have the
scene where Saul tells David togo get all the foreskins of the
Philistines, and I'm like, howare they gonna handle this?
David walks in and just drops abag of foreskins on the throne.

(39:04):
It's pretty cool, but um, notjust that, there's there's a
scene, I think it might be inJohn's gospel, where Jesus is
walking with the apostlesthrough a green field and
they're picking heads of grain,and the Pharisees come to him
and accuse him because they'rethey're eating on the Sabbath.
And Jesus says to them, Have younot read about when David and

(39:28):
his men eat the bread of thepresence?
Like they're there, they sothere they show that scene in in
the house of David, and Iremembered it from the gospel
where Jesus is telling this tothe Pharisees.
Like, have you not read whenDavid and his men are are on the
run from Saul and like they'rebring that bring that up.
I want to hear exactly whatJesus says because I wait,

(39:51):
where?
Uh where like uh it's probablyin John's gospel, but they're
picking green, they're pickinggreen on the Sabbath, and Jesus
uh maybe if you search thewords, um have you not read when
David uh come on guys, anybodyin the chat know this one?

SPEAKER_04 (40:07):
Is it where he says the fields are ripe for harvest?

SPEAKER_05 (40:11):
No, no, about David and his men.
Uh I'll find it.
Sorry guys, this wasn't reallywell planned out.
Let me see here.
Um it should be Matthew 12.3.
Matthew 12.

SPEAKER_04 (40:31):
Let me pull it up.
Okay, um go back a little,because yeah, I go and they're
accusing him, so we know thecontext.
At that time Jesus went throughthe corn on the Sabbath, and his
disciples being hungry began topluck the ears and to eat.

(40:51):
And the Pharisees, seeing them,said to him, Behold, thy
disciples do that which is notlawful to do on the Sabbath
days.
And he said to them, Have younot read what David did when he
was hungry, and they that werewith him?
How he entered into the house ofGod and did eat the loaves,
loaves of proposition, which itwas not lawful for him to eat,

(41:12):
nor nor for them that were withhim, but for the priests only?
Or have ye not read in the lawthat on the Sabbath days the
priests in the temple break theSabbath and are without blame?
But I tell you that there ishere a greater than the temple.
And if you knew what thismeaneth, I will have mercy and
not sacrifice, you wouldn't havenever condemned the innocent.

(41:36):
For the Son of Man is Lord evenof the Sabbath.

SPEAKER_05 (41:58):
So they've all been clean.
But what Jesus is telling thePharisees is I am the son of
David, like you're gonna tell mewhat I can and can't do on the
Sabbath.
This is a Catholic channel,we're not allowed to read the
Bible.
Well, the the the reason I'mgetting at this is because I do
think Catholics uh in generaldon't read scripture nearly

(42:21):
enough.
And excitement for the oldtestament brings the new
testament to life, and as you'rereading through these things in
the new testament, if you don'tknow, look that it's it God set
it up in a way where if you justpick up the gospel of John and
read it, you can have thisamazing illumination of heart,
and you're going to fall on yourknees and fall in love with

(42:44):
Christ.
But the stories have so muchmore meaning when you know
everything that happens.
So, I mean, it really I'm I'mtrying to challenge everybody to
go back and read all this stuffbecause I've I read through
Genesis, I read through Exodus,and this still these little
phrases that you're that you seeas you're reading, and you'll
go, man, that's what was goingon there.

(43:05):
Like when Jesus trained uh uh uhturns the water into wine,
there's so much going on there,right?
Like, there's so much going onwhen Jesus turns water into
wine.
It's an allusion to Exodus,right?
So what does Moses do with theplagues?
He turns water into blood,right?

(43:27):
But he doesn't just turn waterinto blood.
It's not, I mean, it's not hedoesn't just turn the Nile into
blood, he turns the Nile intoblood, and the stone jars that
are filled with water also turnto blood.
And Jesus takes the stone jarsand turns that water into wine,
and then give it a little timeand see what he does with that
wine, because that wine thenbecomes his blood, right?

(43:48):
So, what Jesus is doing at thatfirst miracle is an allusion to
Exodus, it's also an allusion toum if you go into Numbers, it
talks about if you touch thebody of a dead corpse, you have
to do a ritual cleansing withthese stone water jars that are
filled with water on the thirdday and the seventh day in order

(44:08):
to be clean.
Now, if you're going throughJohn's gospel, you're reading in
the beginning, and that's thefirst day, and then it says, and
then the next day, John theBaptist is preaching, and then
the next day he meets Nathaniel,and then the next day, and then
he says on the third day was thewedding at Cana.
Right.
So now what you have is for ifyou start at the beginning, it's
uh in the beginning is day one,it runs up four days, and then

(44:31):
Jesus, and then John says, andon the third day was the wedding
at Cana.
So you have four days plusthree, right?
So now the ritual cleansing hasto be done on the third day and
the seventh day.
But what you're looking at isthe story of creation happening
in John's gospel in thebeginning was the word.
And if you go to Genesis, in thebeginning the world was formless
and void.
Then God said, Let there belight.

(44:51):
You're seeing these allusions tothe story of Genesis, you're
seeing these allusions to thestory of Exodus, you're seeing
you're seeing John writing theGospel of John, understanding
the story so thoroughly, andhe's watching everything Jesus
does and showing how he doesn'tjust fulfill the prophecies of

(45:12):
the suffering servant in Isaiah,it's like every little thing God
is doing in the Old Testament isa preparation for the coming of
Christ.
That when God says, In the youknow, in the in the beginning
the world was foremost and void,and then he says, Let there be
light.
Now, when John's saying in thebeginning was the work, the the
point is that first of all onthe seventh day of creation, you

(45:34):
have the Sabbath, but it's theit you have the the marriage of
Adam and Eve, and that alsolines up with the wedding of
Cana.
So you're looking at the newAdam and the new Eve, you're
looking at that allusion toGenesis, you're looking at the
fact that God, as God is givingyou even the Genesis story, it's

(45:55):
not like Christ is plan B.
The whole thing is Christ inmind from the beginning.
That our redemption is in God'smind from the beginning.
Like it's that's why we say, oh,happy fall, right?
Or like oh is a happy fault orhappy fall.
Like, like Adam's Adam's fall isa good thing because of what God

(46:21):
does with the bad thing, likethe that we are now elevated not
just to where Adam was in thegarden, but we're elevated to a
height even higher because weare now co-heirs with Christ.
That what God actually has instore for us is infinitely
better than what God had forAdam and Eve in the garden.

(46:43):
Oh happy fold, yeah.
Um and the final wedding will bethe wedding supper of the lamb.
Like all there's just there'sjust such a um, there's just so
much more going on than justEphesians 8 in, you know, and

(47:04):
and trying to or uh or John 3.16or or John 3.16 or Romans,
whatever like if even if you gothrough the book of Romans, Paul
isn't just talking about he yes,he's talking about faith and
works, right?
And he's and he's like, uh, weare justified by faith and not
works, but that entire epistleis about the obedience of faith.

(47:26):
It's not just about faith.
And if you and if you read thestory of David, all of it is
about obedience and just beingobedient to God, right?
So I think St.
Augustine said in the oldcovenant, the law was given so
grace we would seek, and thenthe new covenant we were given
grace, so obedience we couldkeep.

(47:48):
And that what God is actuallydoing in Christ, it's not that
Jesus suffered and died for oursins so we wouldn't have to
suffer and die.
It's like, no, Christ suffersand died to give us the roadmap,
and then he gives us the graceto give us the ability to suffer
and die and live the way he did.
And that salvation is not justthis one-time event where you're

(48:12):
saved and you go to heavenbecause you believe the correct
thing, it's about your lifetransforming and and and seeing
it in your everyday life thatespecially when you get your
heart on fire for this stuff andyou're really excited about God,
because we do have those thoseebbs and flows in our spiritual
life, like they happen toeverybody, you know.

(48:33):
And especially if you get caughtup and paying attention to
what's going on in the news andwhat's happening with the
church, and oh my goodness, thePope said this, and the Pope,
like go back to the story andjust remember what God did when
all of Israel thought thepromises could never be kept,
because the the 10 northerntribes are so dispersed
throughout the nations that it'snot even possible to gather them

(48:53):
back in.
And then God does something sounbelievable that it blows
everyone away.
And no matter how discouragedyou can get with what's
happening in the church, likejust sit back and just have
faith.
I I said the other day, I don'tcare if every single bishop in
the church loses faith.
I will not, I will not.

SPEAKER_04 (49:11):
We we have to be like David and be loyal to the
church, even if we have Saul asa Pope.

SPEAKER_05 (49:17):
You yes, yes, like that that story really made me
think about that.
Like, especially us men who areout there talking about obedient
wives.
Oh, I want my wife to beobedient, and then you're gonna
disobey the clergy.
Like, I don't care, man.
The I look, I honestly, likethey were very rough years under
Francis, and I still don't knowlike what the right approach is,

(49:40):
and I don't judge anybody thatgoes and and talks about this
stuff.
I don't know what the answer is,I don't know if the SETI's are
right, I don't know any of it.
I just know that God's puttingit on my heart to not talk about
the clergy right now.
Like, just don't, just don'tbecause the measure which you
give is the measure you'llreceive, and it's very easy to
go and look at other people'ssins, and it is very hard to

(50:03):
look at our own.
It is very hard to look at ourown.
It's like, you know, I I look, Iknow there's a ton of ton of
error out there, and like we doactually have to point out
error.
Um, but I think as much likeespecially at this time,
especially during Advent, let'sjust focus on our spiritual

(50:25):
lives, let's focus on keepingour families Catholic, because I
think that's the biggestchallenge we're all facing right
now.
Is trying trying to trying toraise our families and keep our
families in the faith.
Because they have all thesedistractions too.

SPEAKER_04 (50:42):
I had um I had a couple of of kind of amazing
experiences over the weekend uhin regard to that.
Um the first, well, not thefirst, it was actually
technically the second, but theone I'll say first is um we were
down in the Twin Cities,Minneapolis and St.
Paul, um, over the weekend, andMaddie really loves the

(51:04):
Cathedral of St.
Paul.

SPEAKER_05 (51:06):
Um it it is a it is beautiful that cathedral.
I was very happy you took methere.

SPEAKER_04 (51:12):
Um so we decided to go to Mass there, you know, even
though it's Nova Sordo.
And um usually when I go to aNova Sordo Mass, I have a hard
time just not being angry at ateverything happening around me.
Um but when I'm at thecathedral, I can kind of lose

(51:34):
myself in the cathedral itselfand I and I don't worry about
that as much.
Um but uh as we're kneelingthere after communion watching
watching everyone else receivecommunion, I noticed that uh
that probably 20% of everyoneknelt and of those under the age

(51:56):
of 40, it was at least 50percent of people kneeling just
on the the the the bare coldstone you know floor um for
communion.
So that was uh that was awesometo see.
Um but the the the betterexperience, you know, talking
about keeping our families inthe faith is um the night before

(52:20):
we went to visit my grandma, whouh she's 94, and um he she's
dying, right?
I mean she's 94.
Uh who knows if it's gonna bethis month or so like this is
it's your grandmother or hopes?
My my grandma.

SPEAKER_05 (52:36):
On your mom's side or your dad's side?
On my mom's side, yeah.
Your mom, so your mom's mom.

SPEAKER_04 (52:40):
Yeah, my mom's mom.
Okay, and um, you know, I I'vesaid on the channel before a few
times how some of my favoritememories in my whole life are
the times like uh we would gocamping as a family, and my my
mom always brought mygrandparents with because they
brought her camping as a kid, soshe wanted them to experience

(53:02):
camping with with theirgrandkids.
So we would all go campingtogether, and you know, um my
grandpa was always the first oneto wake up, so he would wake up
and I would wake up and uh I'dcrawl into bed with my grandma
probably eight, nine at the timeor whatever.
Um, and we would me, my grandmaand grandpa would all play the

(53:24):
rosary together in the morningbefore anyone else woke up.
You know, those were thememories that that would always
pop into my head, especiallywhen I was kind of away from the
sacraments.
So those memories and and mygrandma's continued prayers I
definitely credit with bringingme, you know, back to the
sacraments and stuff.
But so Sunday we go to visit mygrandma, who's like I said, is

(53:46):
is who knows how long it's gonnabe, but she's dying, you know,
at some level, anyways.
And um, you know, we we broughtmy kids to visit her.
Um we decided to say the rosary.
And uh I let Maddie lead, Ithink, two or three decades.
And um usually he's kind of inand out, you know.

(54:07):
I mean he's six, and the youngerones are even more in and out,
but he was really into it thatnight.
And um and he just he last nightwhen I was talking with him, he
just said how that was hisfavorite part of the whole
weekend trip, you know.
And it was just just sittingthere watching, you know, my my
six-year-old pray the rosarywith my grandma, just like I

(54:30):
used to it.

SPEAKER_05 (54:31):
Is what's her mental state?
Like, is she was she coherent?
Did she know what was going on,or is she kind of out of it?

SPEAKER_04 (54:36):
Or she has good days and bad days.
This was this was a good day.
She knew who we were and knewall the kids' names.

SPEAKER_05 (54:44):
94.

SPEAKER_04 (54:46):
94, and it's really within the last year where
there's been like a noticeabledecline and stuff.

SPEAKER_05 (54:53):
Yeah, I have those memories too when I was a kid.
My mom just sitting upstairswith me and my younger brother
praying the rosary, teaching usall our prayers and stuff.
They they really those arelittle graces that do come back
later on in your life.
So if you guys have little kids,like don't neglect that.
It's and especially like man, meand my wife were just thinking
about it the other night, it'sjust like um, like what will

(55:13):
what will be our fondestmemories in our life when we
look back on, and we were bothlike just when we would wake up
in bed and all the little kidswould come into bed with us.
Like, there's something soprecious about that time in your
life when all the kids can fitin your bed together because
they're all still small enough.
And yeah, man, I envy you youguys who have to have little

(55:35):
ones, man.
I really do.
And uh such a such a great time.

SPEAKER_04 (55:39):
You don't know what will uh will have an impact like
that, you know what what littleprayers at different times your
kids and grandkids are gonnaremember for their whole lives.

SPEAKER_05 (55:50):
So yeah, the other the other thing is like you know
how we had like these reversionexperiences, so like you spent a
little a period away gonna gosleep with all the kids.
You guys are ruthless, you neverlet me you never let anything

(56:11):
slip.
That's too funny.
Um, and I bet when you wake upin the morning and they all come
running into bed, not they sleepin bed with you.
I would never be able to sleepwith all of them in bed.
You guys are nuts.
Um but my so like I I rememberhaving a conversation with my
son about this because we wetalk about like reversion

(56:31):
experiences, and you know, forme it was like that first
moment.
I think I was driving home fromAtlantic City and I just lost
like three grand or something,and you know, it's like a
really, really bad, bad momentin my life, and I and I'm I'm
listening to like Protestantradio, and all of a sudden I'm
like, oh Jesus.
But my kids were raised in thefaith, so my son was constantly

(56:55):
seeking that like thatunbelievable experience he was
gonna have, and I'm like, we Ihad to like talk to him about it
because not everybody has aconvert a reversion or a
conversion like that.
Like if you're raised in thefaith, um thank you very much,

(57:16):
appreciate it.
Um, like if you're if you'reraised in the faith and you're
taught the faith, like you don'tnecessarily have to have this
spiritual mountaintop highmoment, you know, it can just be
that you just have this constantpresence of God in your life and
black chat, black jackets aboutyeah, no, you're right.

SPEAKER_04 (57:36):
It it really is those those little moments that
I I lean on, you know, whentimes are tough.
The the the memories of going toum perpetual adoration with my
grandparents at midnight on arandom Thursday when I was a kid
and got to sleep over at theirhouse, you know, stuff like
that.

SPEAKER_05 (57:52):
No, no crazy huge conversion moment, but but you
have those memories now,especially because you have
little kids and and there'sthings popping out from your
childhood, right?
So you you have these thingspopping out from your childhood,
and you're like, okay, that thathas managed to stay with me,
that memory, like it's it'ssomething very vivid about that

(58:13):
about that experience.
So now that's the thing that youwant to pass on to your kids.
This is like you talk about likehow do we keep our kids in the
faith, especially in a modernworld.
I know, look, this this is allthis trad talk about everybody
saying you're gonna homeschoolyour kids and this and that, but
I know a lot of people can't doit, you know, it's just the the
fact of the matter.
And for those of you who do haveyour kids that you can't

(58:33):
homeschool them and they're notunder constant protection and
they're out in the world, likethe little things you do with
them are the things that are themost important because they're
that's what they're gonna fallback on when they hit a hard
time or something.
Like my son, when he got hisfirst car and he totaled his
first car within like threemonths.

SPEAKER_04 (58:51):
I remember when that happened.

SPEAKER_05 (58:53):
He got his car in December, and then in February,
he totaled it, had a head-oncollision, and it was it was a
really bad accident.
And I just remember him likereally breaking down and like
having a real sense of like thesins he committed in his life,
yeah, and made him reallyreevaluate things, you know.

(59:15):
And he wasn't my son's not likeyeah, he's not into all stuff
like I was tradition.

unknown (59:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (59:24):
Uh yeah, I I had a permit when I totaled the first
car, but yeah, he uh he had ahad a head-on collision and he
just like that that that thingthat happened to him made him do
some real self-reflection.
And now we're at a point wherelike he's driving into work with
me tomorrow.
We have a two hour ride togetherin the car, and I'm gonna throw

(59:45):
another Han talk on with him,you know.
And the that's another thing,too.
If you have if you do have kids,try to make sure you carve out
individual time for each one todo little special things where
you do get to have one on oneswith them because.
I remember I grew up in a housewith nine kids.
And there's especially forfamilies that have a lot of

(01:00:06):
kids.
And we talked to um Connor aboutthe uh uh what's Connor
Gallagher.
Connor Gallagher about this he'sgot 16 kids.
But the the it it could it couldeasily fall into you're just the
dad of a pact, and you don'thave enough individual time with
each kid to really you knowspeak to them and and see where

(01:00:27):
they're at.
And I remember feeling like thatwhen I was like I felt like I
was invisible, yeah, because myparents were so overburdened,
they had five kids under the ageof seven in the house at one
point, you know.
So I felt invisible, and a lotof like the lashing out I did as
a teenager was largely because Ididn't get attention at home.
Like I'm a class clown and I'mthe loud one and I'm obnoxious,

(01:00:49):
all because it's a copingmechanism from being ignored at
home, probably.
I don't know, I'm just guessing,but it at the same time, it
actually created the personalityI have today, and it made it so
that I'm able to do a podcastand talk, like we, you know, it
but it still is important toonly they had spent more
one-on-one time with you, yeah,right.

(01:01:09):
What's funny is though, like mymother, my mother would there's
not a single one of her kidsthat don't have like a very
personal relationship with herbecause every one of us go to
her with our problems, whichkind of brings it back to our
lady, right?
Because it it happens with mymom and it happens with my wife,
and there's we'll we'll bring itback to scripture with this

(01:01:32):
because especially when you whenyou when you understand what's
happening at the wedding ofCana.
When Our Lady goes to him andsays, They have no wine, and he
says, Woman, what have you to dowith me?
My hour has not yet come.
Like she understands that whatshe's doing in that moment is
asking him to start his missionto die.

(01:01:55):
She unders she understands itbetter than anyone, better than
anyone, right?
So so she is longing for thispassion as much as he is, right?
So, like like Jesus before thepassion, he says to the
apostles, I I have longed tocelebrate this Passover feast
with you guys.
Like his heart's yearning is tocelebrate this Passover feast

(01:02:19):
with them.
And you think about what thatmeans.
It's like I've I've my wholelife I've been longing to go and
suffer and die.
Now, our lady has spent 30 yearswith him at this point, and she
knows if she asks him to do thisthing, that is the start of his
mission, and the clock countdownstarts.

(01:02:41):
Now, now, watching the way mymom, when every single one of us
would go to my mom with whateverissue we're dealing with at that
moment, the burden my motherwould bear on her heart.
Like, you don't understand.
Like, my mom can barely walk attimes because oh, Chrissy's
going through this right now,Janine's going through this
right now, this one's goingthrough that.

(01:03:02):
Like, a mother carries theweight of their child's
suffering in a way a fatherdoesn't.
I'm sorry.
Like, I'm a father, I love mychildren with my entire being.
Something about, I mean, look,let's put it this way: the other
day, my daughter's friends had afriends giving and didn't invite
my daughter.
My daughter was like, whatever,what are you gonna do?

(01:03:24):
I'm not, you know, what am Igonna like?
What are you gonna do?
My wife was distraught, like,distraught.
Like, why are these kids socruel?
How could they leave her out?
Like, my wife was a mess, andI'm like, no, she's okay.
Like, you know, I have to likebe the steady hand and try to
ease my wife.
But just seeing how women beartheir child's suffering in such

(01:03:46):
a unique way, you have tounderstand what our lady is
dealing with in the passion,right?
And for and for Protestants tosit there and mock her
virginity, put posting memes ofa husband and wife making out
and and like that meme makes mesick.
Like the idea that they theyhave no idea how holy and and

(01:04:09):
precious our lady is, like it'sjust man, like that it just it
just it's it hurts when I seestuff like that because she is
she is the woman, like the likethe god of the universe is
coming into the world.
How the hell do you not get onyour knees and say hell?

(01:04:32):
Like you are the one that hechose.
Like, I I just don't I don't getthe inability to meditate on the
incarnation and the and themiraculous event that we're
we're talking about here.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:42):
And it just it's ironic for uh you know to that
to come from a bunch of peoplewho go and pray at the wall of a
Roman fort that they think isthe remains of a of the second
temple, but yet they'll call theliteral, you know, uh ark of the
new covenant, you know, just awomb.

SPEAKER_05 (01:05:04):
That's a that's another thing.
I'm so excited to get toJeremiah, where Jeremiah hides
the ark.
Jeremiah hides the ark.
He like he takes the ark becauseit's going to get taken by the
Babylonians, and he hides it andhe says, Let it never be found
until God's God's glory cloudcomes and rests on it, right?

(01:05:27):
I'm trying to get I'm trying toget through all of this so that
I can open the pages of Lukewhen God's glory cloud comes and
rests upon our lady, the new arkof the covenant.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:37):
So I assume you think then that the Ethiopians
who claim they have the ark arenonsense.

SPEAKER_05 (01:05:42):
That ark will never be found.
Yeah, I agree.
It'll never be found.
God will never allow it to befound.
God's you have to think aboutwhat like if the story's true,
it'll never be found.
Because God's presence is nolonger in that ark.
Like God's God's presence goesit the the the glory cloud rests

(01:06:06):
upon our lady, right?
And then even the idea whenSaint Paul is saying, like, your
body is a temple, like your yourbody is this holy thing because
you are where and and not justthat, what like what happens in
the temple?
It's like it's a place ofsacrifice, it's a pr place of
priestly service.
There's there's so much going onwith that loaded term that our

(01:06:28):
body is a temple of the HolySpirit, right?
Like, there's so muchobligation.
That's why even when we talkedabout uh the Michael Matt thing
the other day and like thiswhole thing that's going on with
feminism right now.
Like, I see I see um like JoeHeshmeyer put out a video, and
and Tim Gordon and Joe Endersare going back and forth with
him.
Like uh I don't I don't thinkHeshmeyer, I think they're

(01:06:51):
strawmanning Heshmeier a bit,but I also think that Heshmeier
is straw manning what whatpatriarchy is.
Like there's no there's no manwho really understands what like
what what what it means to be ahusband and that his wife has to
submit to him.
None of us are lording thatauthority over our wives in some

(01:07:11):
dominant way where we look downupon our it's just not reality,
but that doesn't change the factthat you as a man have a
priestly duty because you are atemple of the Holy Spirit and
you actually have to be Christ,and Christ is very masculine,
and he does not like you have toyou have to think about go back

(01:07:33):
and read the accounts of himencountering the Pharisees and
don't think of him as JonathanRoomy when he's doing it.
Like read those accounts, thinkof him as yeah, read those
accounts of Jesus and theauthority he speaks with, and
understand that you actuallyhave that authority as a man,
and it's not something that youshould take lightly, it's it's

(01:07:57):
really not, and it's notsomething you should be, you
know, just even wieldingirresponsibly, like it is a
very, very heavy burden that menhave, and it's and it should
that should be where you'reyou're you're working out your
salvation with fear andtrembling because it it's it's
the most it's the most it's themost terrifying responsibility

(01:08:20):
on the planet that you are ahusband and a father.
It's it's it's scary stuff, man.
Because every mistake, you likeI have, I just think that I will
be judged on the type of husbandand father.
Like, yeah, we'll be held toaccount for every word, and I
and I'm just I'm going to go inand just say, God, please have

(01:08:41):
mercy on my stupid remarks andmy wise ass comments and my
sarcasm and stuff.
But please tell me I did a goodjob as a husband and father.
Because that is actually how Isee myself when he says, I
created them in my like let uscreate man in our image, like
that image is the family, likeGod before he creates anything,

(01:09:02):
God before he makes the heavensand the earth, before he creates
anything, he's a family, he's afather and son, and that image
that he creates us in is thatfamily.
And a husband and wife comingtogether is like how you
participate in creation.
So to me, like it's the it's thethe most incredible
responsibility we have.

(01:09:22):
One year free.
So I can handle that.
A year, yeah, I can do that innothing.
A year in eternity for eachtweet and I tweet a lot.
Do you know how much you tweet?
I got I got at least five fivethousand years in purgatory.
Hold on, let's think about it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:39):
Let's uh let's pull up Twitter here real quick.

SPEAKER_05 (01:09:42):
No, don't even look at it.
I'll be in purgatory for amillennium.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:46):
And this is just on this one account.
How many accounts have you had?

SPEAKER_05 (01:09:49):
No, no, no.
If you delete the account, youthat's like uh it's like getting
a um it's like getting a um withwhy can't I think right now?
An indulgence?
An indulgence.
If you delete the account, youget an indulgence.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:05):
Why doesn't that tell me how many times you've
tweeted?
Does it just stop counting?

SPEAKER_05 (01:10:10):
I hope so.
I hope so.
Your tweets will be erased fromfar for as far east as is west.
I don't know.
That's how it works.
Yes, it's a plenary indulgenceif you delete the account.
All right, so we're gonna headover to locals.
Uh, we still got plenty of stuffto talk about.

(01:10:30):
I didn't even get to half thestuff I wanted to talk about.
We did a little bit of theGospel of John on this show
tonight, but um, if you're not alocals member, we're going to be
going through all of thechapters of John.
So we basically touched on oneand two a little bit tonight,
but I would like to go throughall of the Gospel of John.
I would love to get into thehour with you guys.
Like when Jesus says, My hourhas not yet come, that is that

(01:10:54):
is a very, very powerful thingthat he's doing there.
And it shows you how from thesecond Jesus starts his
ministry, like once I hate evensaying ministry because it's
such a Protestant term.
From the second Jesus starts hismission, and that first miracle
at the wedding of Cana, and hesays, My hour has not yet come.
There's several times throughoutthat gospel where Jesus talks

(01:11:16):
about the hour, and all of thempoint to the new Exodus, the new
Passover.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:23):
And you uh, as of today, you just passed 30,000
tweets.

SPEAKER_05 (01:11:28):
All right, all right, I can do 30,000 years in
purgatory.
I'm going to confession and I'mgetting an indulgence and I'm
erasing my Twitter.
How about that?
Because all right, no, actuallynews.
Wait, wait, wait.
Before we go, we do wait.
I just sent to the telegram theinsanity because somebody said

(01:11:52):
it earlier.
I have to check out CalebHammer's last episode, and I
did, and I clipped an amazingclip from that uh from that
episode.
If you guys did not see this, itis amazing.
Let me just show you what you'remissing.
But if you're a Protestant andyou're watching this show, just
understand that what what wetalked about tonight is the

(01:12:12):
depth of the promises fulfilledby God and how how unbelievable
the kingdom of heaven come toearth really is.
And then listen to Protestanttheology.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:28):
Read the Bible because God was not Catholic.
The Romans sent him, he's theone that got on the cross,
right?
The Romans killed him becausethey were Catholics.

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:38):
Okay, don't look at it.
I don't know what this has to dowith out of wedlock.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:40):
Out of wedlock wedlock is in the Bible, and you
said religion, you just own it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:45):
You have four baby daddies and four kids, and it's
okay.
Five kids, it's okay.
Just own that shit, bro.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:49):
Five kids, yeah.
They're awesome, they'reamazing.
But the thing is they all wantedthey all wanted a baby with me,
and we're and if you want tohave a baby with me and you're
married, you want me to stay athome and be a wife and you want
to be a changed man, I'm goingfor it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:58):
But if you but you just accept it like that, yeah.
Well, in a couple of years, thatmany people?

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:03):
Yep.
No, I'm 38 years old.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:04):
No, you're not.
They were all gapped out,though.
They were all gapped out 38years old, 17.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:08):
Huge five.
Like, okay, she has 21 and then15, then nine, 10.
Those are the same guy, and thenour two-year-old out.
That wasn't supposed to be here.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:15):
She's been actually they're gapped out.
It's like a question if you'regonna read the Bible.

SPEAKER_06 (01:13:21):
Wow.
Look, faith alone, man.

SPEAKER_05 (01:13:24):
Believe in Jesus, and none of this stuff matters,
man.
None of this stuff mattersbecause you believe in Jesus,
right?
Look, the thing is the the thethe proof of Catholicism is in
in the saints and and whatholiness is.
So if uh if you guys are notlocals members on locals over

(01:13:46):
the next couple of weeks uhduring Advent, I think we're
gonna just do that deep diveinto John.
Um just because it's such it's Idon't know, man.
Like seeing the story come aliveand seeing the old testament,
you know, all the old testamentuh foreshadowing coming coming
coming to fruition in the new,it's all exciting.

(01:14:08):
It should light your heart onfire.
Like you guys should still beexcited about your faith.
I mean, I've been Catholic formy whole life, and I still have
times where I just like I getlike you you get excited about
it, and so you know, sometimesit's just time to reflect on
that.
And I hope you guys get a littleexcited when we talk about this
stuff.

(01:14:28):
So that's what we're gonna bedoing for advent.
So if you guys see a title thatdoesn't look, you know, if you
see a thumbnail and title thatmight not look that enticing
because it's not it's it's notlike current events type stuff,
click it anyway because I don'tknow where we're gonna go with
each show.
I'm going to continue myreading, I'm gonna continue

(01:14:48):
trying to study this stuff.
It's not that easy.
I do have a day job, I'm doingthe best I can.
If you guys would like tosupport us, Rob set up a little
tip jar for us.
Rob put that link up again.
Best way to support us is alwaysgonna be locals, plus, you get a
lot more of us on locals.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:03):
And we want to throw a little something extra, scan
the QR code or go toavoidingbabylon.com.
You click donate up at the top.
There were uh just for therecord, it's it's not like a
don't it's not a tax deductibledonation.
You we're not another charity,guys.

SPEAKER_05 (01:15:22):
Not Lila Rose, yes.
We're we're two broke assblue-collar guys just trying to
bring some entertainment to ourour peers.
We do the best we can with this.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:34):
Um, somehow the people with the for-profit
company are making like onetwentieth each of what Lila Rose
and her non-profit make, butwhat I wish I made a 20th of
what that woman made.

SPEAKER_05 (01:15:46):
Are you kidding me?
I wish I made a 20th of thatwoman made with this.
Do it for the LLC guys, portraythe LLC.
Well, on Defenders of the Westfrom the last show, Louis IX and
St.
Fernando III were instrumentalin my reversion.
Saint Louis prayed the officedaily, engaged in scourging.
Fernando prayed all night to astatue of Our Lady all night

(01:16:07):
before every battle.
That is Patrick.
My man Patrick, who I'm going tosee in Canada next week.
Patrick, love you, brother.
Thank you for the super chat.
But start sending those to medirectly.
Don't don't make me share themwith Rob.
I'm kidding.
Come on.
I'm kidding.
I think you guys have done areally good job.
I'm uh, I'm an I am I am inSSPV, but not a sede.

(01:16:30):
I love what you guys are tryingto do.
Um, yeah, like I I don't likegetting, I don't even want to
get into any of the trad warstuff anymore.
I just kind of want to, at leastfor the moment, you never know
where the show's going to go.
But for the moment, it's advent.
I want to focus on our faith andjust just just remembering like
why we why we became Catholic,why we love our faith.

(01:16:52):
Uh please comment on the storyof Pope Pius XII and reporting
of extraterrestrials.
We'd I'd have to look into that.
I didn't actually see that one.

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:00):
We'll save that for uh the day.

SPEAKER_05 (01:17:02):
Daniel O'Connor.
Yeah.
Um Paul said, if one of yoursons or daughters ever married a
Protestant outside the church,how would each of you respond?
Um, I'm I make it very clear.
I'm okay if my my kids date aProtestant or meet a Protestant,
they cannot marry a Protestantbecause I think, especially like

(01:17:25):
young men, if they like ifthey're a faithful Protestant
and they're willing to haveconversations with me, like I'm
willing to try and catechizethese kids.
Like these young men don't havefathers.
I'm not um I don't know how Ifeel about it, to be honest.
I'm I'm just saying, like, uhthat's not like a deal breaker
for me to to see someone who'snot Catholic.

(01:17:46):
Because I think if if a guy issincere in his seeking of God,
he's going to be open to it.
I mean, many, you know, shecouldn't marry him.

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:54):
I'm like 10 years away from having to worry about
that, probably.
I guess for my boys, I wouldn'tbe as concerned because if I
raise them right, they should beable to lead a Protestant woman
to the church, you know.
I as a um, but I would not wantmy daughter even probably dating
a Protestant guy.

SPEAKER_05 (01:18:15):
I'll I'll say this though
daughters start to see, I amgoing to be very involved in
that whole thing, and I will behaving conversations throughout
the whole thing.
All my kids know I will notattend your wedding if you get
married outside the church.
Yeah, like there's no scenariowhere I'm attending your I don't

(01:18:36):
care, I don't know what to tellyou.
I will not lose my soul becauseyou wanna and it's it's not just
that, like my kids know like youdon't you don't give up Jesus
for anything but for a boy, likeno, you don't you don't you

(01:18:57):
don't give up your soul for aboy, like it just doesn't
happen.
So I don't think I don't thinkmy daughters would ever they I
don't think they would ever.

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:05):
That's not this is true.

SPEAKER_05 (01:19:09):
That is yeah, I don't know.
Look, like I said, I I think themajority of men out there today
have uh are really lacking infathers in general.
So I think any guy my daughterbrings home, I'm going to want
want to mentor him into being aman.
So it really does like to me,it's it's almost like it doesn't
matter that much because whoeverthey bring home, it's going to

(01:19:32):
be okay, you're you're havingconversations with me as if
you're you know, if you're ifyou're seeing my daughter, we're
talking, and we'll see how itgoes from there.
Um, I think we read that onealready, right?
Uh joined late, bros impressivedocket next couple of weeks.
By the way, St.
Ignatius Study Bible is amazing.
All right, mine's coming forChristmas.
So uh TLM Ryan bought that one,and he bought the word on fire

(01:19:56):
one to compare them to see howthey're doing like against each
other.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:00):
So I have the St.
Ignatius, I don't have the wordon fire.

SPEAKER_05 (01:20:04):
I've been asked, I've been meaning to ask your
thoughts on Heshmeier for awhile.
Shameless Popery is the oneCatholic answer show I still
watch.
Yeah, I I like Joe.
Um, I like Joe.
I I think yeah, what I wasgetting into with um with Tim
and Joe is like I think theycould actually have a fruitful
conversation if if if the if Joeand if Joe Enders and Tim handle

(01:20:30):
the approach better, but I thinkthe way they're handling the
approach, like kind of kind ofmocking Heshmeyer is not I don't
I don't know if that's going towork, but I think if it really
is gone about like hey, we'relike let's let's have a dialogue
about that.
Like, I don't think I don'tthink I don't think you can get
Heshmeier to do a debate.
Like, no, I just don't not onfeminism.
Tim Gordon's too good onfeminism, like he's he's just

(01:20:52):
got so many receipts.
But I think like if you'reactually seeking to bring
Catholic Inc around on thepatriarchy issue, I think it's
gotta be a conversation and nota debate.
Like the the debate thing, I Ijust think it's run its course,
and I think it's time,especially when it's in-house
amongst Catholics.
I think we need to be havingconversations because this is
this is a very important issue.

(01:21:13):
And you know, if we're alwaystrying to roast the other guy or
burn the other guy, make theother guy look stupid, it's not
it's not gonna work.
And I do like Joe.
I think Joe's a really goodapologist.
He's one of the one of the guysI do enjoy watching.
So I I hope something comes ofit because I I mean I like Joe,
Joe, and Tim.
But all right, we're gonna wrapthis one here.
We're heading over to locals ifyou guys want to come and join

(01:21:36):
us.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:36):
So hold on.
I'm I'm roasting the stupidMuslims or Catholic guy in the
comments real quick.
Give me a second.

SPEAKER_05 (01:21:45):
Um, yeah, this is what that's kind of what I mean.
Like, like argue, like you guyshave to because I think it,
yeah, I don't know.
I'm not, you know, whatever.
I just I just think if if you goabout it the right way, maybe
you could get a conversationabout it.
And I think a conversation couldactually be beneficial to
people.
But I think if you're gonna goabout it, like because what when

(01:22:07):
when Tim and Trent had thedebate, the whole thing became
about how Tim destroyed Trent inthe debate, and it kind of put a
bad taste in those guys' mouths,and like they just uh like they
won't go near Tim Gordon becauseof it, you know.
But I think I think if if it wasa conversation, it might go
somewhere.
Yeah, whatever.
I think it's an important issue,and I think it has to be handled

(01:22:28):
well.

SPEAKER_04 (01:22:30):
Okay, let's see here.
What uh what do we want to closewith?

SPEAKER_05 (01:22:34):
We'll close with uh come to locals, guys.
Leave us leave us a tip for theend of the year.
102 take three.

SPEAKER_01 (01:22:45):
Action please.
A bottle of recusancellas petitverdeaux is one of the few
things that can make me standwatching avoiding Babylon.
Use code base that is B-A-S-E-Dat checkout.