December 5, 2025 • 54 mins
What happens when a culture starts bending truth to fit its desires? We follow that question across surprising terrain—Freud’s hidden motives, Wagner’s spell over European imagination, Bauhaus boxes that flatten the human spirit, and the concrete politics of highways and housing projects that shattered parish life. Along the way, we challenge the idea that ideas are neutral. People make theories, and those people have desires, wounds, and wagers hidden in their work.
We dig into how music can catechize a nation, how architecture preaches a theology, and how postwar social engineering rebranded thick ethnic worlds into a thin “white” identity. The conversation pulls no punches on race as an ideology of management, not heritage, and on why religious belonging often explains American life better than color lines. From the “triple melting pot” to the claims of universal design, we map the choices that made cities brittle and suburbs bland—and why families paid the price.
Then we pivot to power, vice, and freedom. Sexual liberation sells itself as emancipation while functioning as a lever of control, especially in a world wired for instant indulgence. The counterweight is old and bracing: you are only as free as you are free from your vices. Finally, we climb to the keystone: Logos. John’s audacious claim—Logos is God—offers a language sturdy enough to speak across civilizations. If America moves into a fourth era as Protestant hegemony recedes and new blocs rise, the live question is simple and seismic: will appetite or Logos set the terms?
Hear the case, question the links, and decide which story you’re living. If this conversation stretches your thinking, share it with a friend, hit follow, and leave a review telling us what challenged you most.
Take advantage of great Catholic red wines by heading over to https://recusantcellars.com/ and using code "BASED" for 10% off at checkout!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:05):
You have two options in life, at least intellectual
options.
You can either conform yourdesires to the truth, or you can
conform the truth to yourdesires.
And it seems to me that justabout every modern thinker that
(00:25):
I came up with, now that thebiographies were coming out, had
chosen the latter course.
They had decided to suppress thetruth because it didn't conform
to their desires.
So Sigmund Freud would say, Allmen have a desire to sleep with
their mothers and their sisters.
All men, Sigmund.
(00:48):
I found that hard to hard toswallow when I first heard it.
And then suddenly the story ofFreud's relationship with his
sister came out, and suddenlythis became somewhat more
understandable.
SPEAKER_03 (01:03):
You got me.
SPEAKER_04 (01:11):
Dr.
E.
Michael Jones, we have we havewanted to do this interview for
so long.
Um, okay, so uh we have a lot toget to tonight because I I've
never had a chance to speak withyou, but I've been admiring your
work for a very long time.
So we're I would like to kind ofstart back at Degenerate
Moderns, and because all of yourbooks seem to flow into each
(01:35):
other, where you startdiscussing the topic of the next
book in the book you're writingat the moment, and and they all
just seem to flow into oneanother.
And Degenerate Moderns was thefirst book I read of yours, and
it was um, you have theseunbelievable Chestertonian
quotes in that book.
Um, one that stood out to me wasum it they they were they they
(01:57):
tried to sell us on.
Well, I'm not gonna get thequote exactly right, but they
tried to sell us on thatreligion is the opiate for the
masses, but it turns out thatopiates are the religion of the
masses, and and you get and it'slike you have these throughout
your work, and I'm I'm I'm Iyour books are amazing.
Um, and you you you always havea way of kind of bringing it,
(02:17):
bringing it down to to a levellike even what you just saw in
that clip.
So um what year was DegenerateModerns?
And that was that was the firstone that you really you wrote
books before that, but that wasthe first one that kind of
popped off, right?
SPEAKER_01 (02:30):
Yeah, it did.
It got a lot of response fromthe conservative movement at
that period of time.
Uh so it was around uh, I thinkit was 92.
Oh, that was a 92, and that mesaying that that's a direct
quote from uh DegenerateModerns, what I said.
That was a C Spa I C-SPAN, I uhwas Washington, I think it was
(02:50):
uh about uh around the time ofeveryone was talking about the
universities, about the takeoverof the universities by what we
call political correctness.
So, but it was also, I mean, Istarted off uh uh intellectually
as a as a literary critic.
I got a PhD in Americanliterature from Temple
University at a time when therewas a big contestation.
(03:14):
This was the beginning of thetakeover of the universities.
I had a front row seat to it.
Uh and uh the the issue when Iwas in graduate school uh was
Ezra Pound.
SPEAKER_04 (03:26):
Uh oh, go ahead.
I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01 (03:28):
I so it the question, so the he was uh the
man well along with T.S.
Eliot, who revised the Englishlanguage at the beginning of the
20th century, uh Pound edited uhthe wasteland for T.
S.
Eliot, and they developed aliterary criticism that
eventually became known as theNew Criticism, which was
basically close textual reading,uh forget about everything else.
(03:52):
Uh well, I have nothing againstuh close textual reading, but
there's a certain point whereit's not going to reveal what's
going on.
And if you a classic example wasuh, as I mentioned, Sigmund
Freud.
You can do a close textualreading all you want, and the
problem is he's not being honestwith you.
Uh all the people I mentioned inDegenerate Moderns had a kind of
(04:13):
hidden agenda.
Uh, and in order to find out thehidden agenda, you had to do the
by read the biography, which issomething nobody ever did when
the new criticism was in charge.
So it was a kind of truncated,uh not a bad idea, but a
limited, truncated version of uhwhat you needed to understand
literature.
SPEAKER_04 (04:34):
That's the interesting thing about all of
your books, is that you the theresearch that you're doing for
these books is it's it'ssomething that nobody else
really does, where you're you'rereading the work and then you're
going back and studying theperson that actually wrote the
work to try to get to themotivations of the person
writing the work.
I watched your interview withPatrick Coffin yesterday, and
you were even doing that, likelike explaining so much of like
(04:57):
the motivations behind theEnglish, the English language
and why why we kind of perceiveeverything the way we do.
So, what book comes afterdegenerate moderns?
SPEAKER_01 (05:07):
Dionysus Rising.
SPEAKER_04 (05:09):
Okay, well, what was that one?
I never even heard of that one.
SPEAKER_01 (05:12):
Uh, it's basically the same thesis.
And uh a friend, um Canadianfriend said to me, she loved
degenerate moderns, so she said,Why don't you do something about
modern music?
So I said, Okay, I'll write achapter on it.
Well, it turns out it was muchmore complicated than I than I
thought, because I was going togo right to Arnold Schoenberg,
(05:34):
he's the classic moderncomposer, and start with him.
And I realized you can't startwith him, you have to start with
Richard Wagner.
And uh so uh his his base hismost famous work is for Claire
to Nacht.
It's a smeared version ofTristan and Azolda.
That's what his brother-in-lawsaid, and that's what it is.
(05:54):
It's Tristan and Azolda, kind ofuh made less comprehensible.
And the beginning of the book isWagner.
Wagner is a a genius in everyhe's one of these great just
monuments to what can I say?
Beauty, genius.
He's got everything.
Uh, and he's he was a tremendousfigure.
(06:16):
And everybody in the 19thcentury, by the end of the 19th
century, everybody had to takecare, take account of Wagner,
including people like J.R.R.
Tolkien, who got the whole ideaof the ring from Wagner and
never admitted it.
So really we can talk about thattoo.
I just I just did a piece onTolkien.
Um there's a piece I wrotecalled Tolkien's Failed Quest.
(06:38):
It's another story.
We can go into that another Thisis the problem.
We might have to make this amulti-part interview because
it's fine with me, but I'mtrying to stay on track here.
And I'm trying to say, look,this is if you want to talk
about Wagner, let's talk aboutTristan und Zolde.
It's about sexual liberation,and it swept all of Germany
away.
(06:58):
Schirmberg was swept away withit.
He was in Vienna when everybodywas going to Bayreuth, listening
to Wagner, and he was in theBohemian circles there.
He's a Jew who converted to someevangelical Protestantism.
And then everybody puts it intoaction.
They watch Tristan, they decidesexual liberation is a great
idea, and you act on it, andyour life falls apart.
(07:20):
So his life fell apart when hiswife committed adultery because
she listened too much to TristanAzolde.
And he took, he was a uhreverted, he was an angry man
who reverted to Judaism.
Okay, returned to the vomit ofJudaism, uh, disavowed his
(07:41):
baptism and vowed not justrevenge on his wife, but revenge
on the West and on the music itcreated.
And so that's what you have toknow to understand Schoenberg.
SPEAKER_04 (07:53):
Okay, so that so now you start uh exploring music,
and then where do you go fromthere?
Because I'm like all of thesebooks leading do you go to the
uh the slaughter of cities afterthat?
SPEAKER_01 (08:02):
Or is that no uh Living Machines?
I went to architecture, modernarchitecture, Bauhaus
architecture.
I looked into Gropius.
Like, what is the meaning ofthose ugly Bauhaus buildings
that everybody hated?
Uh there were all over theworld, they conquered the world.
You had the same, uh, you had uhthe same stupid building in
(08:25):
Leningrad as you had in Nairobi.
Okay, so in Leningrad, you got aflat roof when you get nine feet
of snow.
That doesn't work.
You're gonna have a leaky roof.
In Nairobi, I've been inNairobi, I've been to the uh
Jomo Kenyati University.
You have uh again anotherBauhaus building with huge plate
glass windows.
(08:47):
The sun comes through thesewindows, and you've got a solar
oven.
This is not appropriate for theequator, it's not appropriate
for St.
Petersburg, it's just anideology.
And as an ideology, I think Ican uh deduce it from the facts
of Gopius' life.
That was the third book.
SPEAKER_04 (09:04):
What year does Bauhaus actually start being uh
used?
SPEAKER_01 (09:08):
Well, the famous book is uh nine uh building is
1970s, the Fagus uh shoefactory.
1907.
1907 is a crucial year formodernity.
It's the same year that Picassodid uh Les Dames d'Avignon.
It's also the same year that uhPius X wrote his uh encyclical
(09:32):
on modernism.
So it's a quick this is aturning point.
It's a turning point, uh, and uhthat's the first building.
And Gropius founded a school ofdesign, uh Bauhaus, and
eventually he was run out oftown by Hitler.
Uh and so Bauhaus split up.
Uh he went to uh Harvard, andhis assistant went to uh Moscow,
(09:54):
and between the two of them,between the East and the West,
Bauhaus took over the entireworld, especially after after
World War II.
SPEAKER_04 (10:01):
Yeah, that's what that's what I was going to ask
you because something happens toarchitecture after World War II,
where even the church itselfstops building these beautiful
cathedrals and and churcharchitecture changes, and
everything kind of just I don'tknow, everything just kind of
flattens out and just gets youget start getting churches in
the run.
I don't know if that's atheological issue or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (10:23):
It is it is theological.
You know what the uh the priestdidn't realize is that there was
a theology to Bauhaus that wasantithetical to the Catholic
faith.
And so uh nobody understoodthis.
No, nobody understood.
They they they the big push camewith Vatican II where we had
nothing to fear uh mod aboutfrom the modern world, and so we
(10:45):
uh indulged in this experimentof the Bauhaus church and didn't
realize there's a message here,and the message is contradicting
the gospel you're supposed to bepreaching.
What was his term for thosebuildings?
He called them von Machine, andI called the title on book is
Living Machines or Machines forLiving In.
Man is a machine.
(11:06):
This is the Enlightenment, it'sa reduction of man to uh, as a
as I said, a machine.
Uh and uh it didn't work, didn'twork.
So we had to, you know, in inPhiladelphia, the modernists
took over the city, cityplanning uh around 1950,
something like that.
They were all back from WorldWar II.
(11:27):
They all felt as if they hadconquered the world, and they
start building buildings for thesharecroppers.
Black sharecroppers are comingup from North Carolina, and it
doesn't work.
It's not working.
Same thing with um the RobertTaylor homes in Chicago, all
across uh the northern cities ofthe United States, the cities
start building these uh highhigh-rise warehouses for Negroes
(11:52):
from the South.
They're called the projects.
Bill Cosby grew up in one ofthem, and and it didn't work.
It did, it didn't work.
Uh there was a kind ofmaterialism there that kind of
snuffed out the spirituality,the Protestant, you know, kind
of emotional spirituality theybrought up from the South.
They started acting likemachines, they started acting
(12:12):
like sex machines, as JamesBrown would say.
Uh, and the whole thing fellapart.
Their families fell apart.
And what would you, well, thelegacy is the gang violence that
still exists in Chicago.
SPEAKER_04 (12:24):
Yeah, I there's this uh 10-part series on PBS about
New York, where it starts in the1600s with the the Dutch
settling in New York, and itjust takes you through all the
way up to 9-11.
So it was a documentary they putup put out right after 9-11.
But when you get into thatperiod after World War II and
you have Robert Mosesreconstructing all the roadways
(12:45):
in New York, and he's basicallybreaking up these beautiful,
like uh Italian little ghettosthat you had of like this
beautiful Italian culture, thisIrish culture, and they come in
with eminent domain, they putthese like hideous highway
systems through, they move allthe black people up to these
projects in the in the bad areasof the city.
They're they're elevated off theground, so they have no
(13:08):
connection to the to thereality, you know, where they
live.
So they start treating the arealike crap and all this, but it's
such a a wild thing to watch,and then you start getting
people moving out to thesuburbs.
SPEAKER_01 (13:20):
That happens at the same time.
So you're the the commondenominator here is called
social engineering, and therewere basically two forms of
social engineering after WorldWar II.
What we're talking about, Icover in my book, The Slaughter
of Cities, which is basicallyurban planning, urban renewal.
And I said it was ethniccleansing, uh primarily ethnic
(13:41):
cleansing of the Catholic, uhCatholic ethnic neighborhoods.
Uh and the main instrument ofthe ethnic cleansing was the
black people that came up fromthe South.
You just put them in there, anyimmigrant group is, and they
were an immigrant group.
They these people in Chicagotalked about Mississippi the way
my parents talked about Irelandor Germany.
(14:03):
Okay, and they came up there,and the immediate result when
you move into this kind ofderacinated immigrant society is
gangs, gangs formed.
And the gangs became then thelump and proletariat engaging in
random violence that's going todrive the Catholics out of their
neighborhood.
So it's bauhouse for the Negroesin the city, uh Levittown for
(14:30):
the people in the suburbs.
So when you're when you're inChicago, you're Polish or you're
Irish or Italian, when you getto the suburbs, you're white.
And that was the whole pointbecause this social engineering
was race-based.
The Kruger year was 54.
Brown versus school board, whereuh they strike down segregation
(14:52):
in the South.
The same year they do Bermanversus Parker, which is the
urban renewal decision, whichbasically says the city has the
right of eminent domain, andthey can take whatever they
want, and you have no recourse.
It was named after a guy,probably a Jew by the name of
Berman, who had a clothing storein Washington.
There was nothing wrong with hisbuilding.
(15:13):
He said, I want to be here.
If you want to rejoin, rebuildthe neighborhood, I want to be
here.
I want to sell them clothes.
No, you're not part of the plan,and they tore his building down.
So this is the twin, the twinevils of social engineering were
urban renewal, ethnic cleansing,and the other one was sexual
liberation as a form ofpolitical control.
And I was I was a guinea pig inthis experiment.
(15:36):
I was in my mother's womb whenthe Kinsey Report came out.
I was born four months after theKinsey Report.
This is the bad sign that I wasborn under.
SPEAKER_04 (15:49):
I I grew up in Levitown, by the way.
In Long Island?
Yeah, Long Island.
Good.
SPEAKER_01 (15:55):
That's the first you were the first pioneer for
Levitown.
SPEAKER_04 (15:59):
Um, so uh well okay, so let's let's touch on race a
little bit because I know I'veseen you and Nick Fuentes go
back and forth about the racething.
Um because once they break upthose Catholic communities and
you do get the suburbs, doesn'ta white culture actually form
though?
Like like because you you do youdid see there would be like
(16:20):
Italian culture, there would beIrish culture, there would be
you know German culture, andwhen especially in the city,
they would kind of stay groupedtogether and they would stay
amongst their own.
But once they do move out to thesuburbs, there like doesn't a
new culture kind of getdeveloped at that point?
SPEAKER_01 (16:35):
Yes, you're right.
It's called American.
So I am biracial, okay?
I am not white, I'm biracial,I'm Irish and German.
This is inevitable.
Okay, when you bring thesepeople over here, it's
inevitable that they're going toget together and they're you're
gonna see intermarriage.
The the thing that explains thisin terms of American ethnicity
(16:57):
is something called the triplemelting pot, which says after
three generations, everyimmigrant group becomes uh one
of three groups Protestant,Catholic, Jew.
Now, this was uh developed inthe 1940s.
There were basically no Muslimshere at that point, but it could
be expanded to include Muslimsin places like Dearborn, because
I think they're they're therising group.
(17:20):
So I I would claim that uh afterI'm third generation.
By third generation, they saythat's when your religion
becomes your ethnicity.
My grandfather was born inIreland.
He was just he came over here,he was an Irishman from the day
he got here until the day hedied.
My father was second generation,he didn't know who he was, he
(17:43):
couldn't decide whether he wasIrish or American.
By the time I came around, itwas clear that I and my
generation, we were allAmericans, but we were a
particular kind of American, wewere Catholic Americans, as
opposed to Protestant Americans,as opposed to Jewish Americans.
That's interesting.
SPEAKER_04 (18:01):
So I I I work construction.
I am I my my father's Italian,my mom's Irish, right?
Now I work with all theseItalian guys, and they would
speak Italian around me and theywould they would laugh at me and
they go, yo, you stupid Americanboy, because you don't
understand Italian, you know,like my father understood it,
but by the time you get to me, Idon't understand it.
Now, my kids, my wife's German,I'm Italian.
(18:23):
My kids have they're they'rejust Catholic at this point.
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (18:27):
That's what it comes down to.
My mother, I I saw I'm learningGerman.
My grandfather, my Germangrandfather's living with me.
So I came home after my firstweek of learning German in high
school.
I said, say something in inGerman.
And he said, Schwamm Letschte,which I couldn't understand.
That's that's the dialect.
Okay, I had to learn that on myown.
(18:49):
My mother was 100% German, shedidn't speak any German.
Because the dialect that mygrandfather spoke didn't make
any sense.
It was so peculiar that itdidn't work.
You couldn't learn, you couldn'tlearn German by learning that.
SPEAKER_04 (19:01):
Yeah, yeah.
The guys I work with, if theythey were Sicilians, so if they
went to Italy, it's a totallydifferent, you know, especially
because they they came here inthe in the in the you know,
early, late 19 uh mid to early1900s.
So um, so what is thedisagreement that you always
have with Nick?
Because I I I see you, I see youguys going back and forth a lot.
I never actually got which Nickare you talking about?
SPEAKER_01 (19:22):
Uh there are there are multiple Nicks out there,
there are multiple Nick Fuentes.
SPEAKER_04 (19:27):
Because I would imagine you guys would agree on
a lot when it comes to the thethe issue of the Jews, but
right.
I always see you guys kind ofbutting heads on the race issue,
and I've never seen what thedisagreements are.
SPEAKER_01 (19:37):
Yeah, so sometimes Nick Fuentes, so when he's
online, he's white.
Okay, when the cops show up athis house to because of some
complaint, he walks out andsays, I'm a Mexican.
SPEAKER_03 (19:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:50):
And then he also says he's Catholic.
So he's got this multiplepersonality disorder.
I have multiple personalitydisorder because I'm Irish and
German, but the American Kind ofbrought it together.
So I'm saying I so it happenedwhen he brought on uh Jared
Taylor.
Jared Taylor is a white guy,he's a race guy.
His job is to uh uh basicallyturn Jews into white people so
(20:13):
they can become invisible.
That's always what the AmericanRenaissance was doing, and now
Nick starts spouting this racialline, and I'm trying to explain
to him that this is notcompatible with Catholicism.
Race is not an ethnic group,it's an ideology, it's a
category of the mind that gotimposed for political purposes
(20:33):
on the proletariat, on theworking class in Virginia at the
beginning of the 17th century.
The slaves there were, they wereCeltic slaves and there were
African slaves.
And they got together forBacon's rebellion and they
nearly overthrew the rule of theplantation owner class.
And they decided they're notgonna let that happen.
(20:54):
So they instituted terms likewhite and black to divide the
working class, giving whitesprivilege.
There is always a value judgmentplaced on white and black.
There's no value judgment placedon Italian or Irish or German.
That is what it is.
But when you come to white andblack, either it's white
supremacy over black people orit's black supremacy over white
(21:16):
people, and it always leads toconflict, and it's incompatible
with the Catholic faith.
It's not incompatible withProtestantism because these they
all had state churches.
And so if you were an EnglishProtestant, which is basically
what Samuel Huntington said wasour identity as Americans, an
Anglo-Protestant, you came froman island where everybody looked
(21:38):
the same.
That was a state church.
SPEAKER_03 (21:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:42):
That's different than the Catholic Church, which
is universal and has uh, youknow, branches all over the
world.
SPEAKER_04 (21:48):
Yeah, if you if you're worshiping at the same
altar, that's it's infinitelymore important than what you
look like.
It's like the when the Spanishcome to uh Mexico and South
America, they kind of form thismestizo culture because they're
at the same altar.
So there's really no no nodistinction between Gentile or
Jew or Great, you know, it'slike that kind of happens.
But but if we're in our modernuh in modern America, yeah,
(22:14):
yeah, because I do see an issuewith just just breaking down
between black and white, becauseuh white Protestant is very
different than white Catholic.
But I do I do think there's somesome big cultural differences,
especially now that we do havethis mass immigration issue with
people are coming pouring intothe floodgates, and you're
(22:34):
you're now in you know, on inwhat would have typically been a
white suburban area uh inAmerica is now kind of mixing up
with all these otherethnicities.
Now, as a Catholic, like shouldwe want like what should we want
our kids to like I don't know,like is it isn't there something
(22:55):
to this like that we should beconcerned with with preserving
what American culture, whiteAmerican culture has has I'm not
sure what white American cultureis, uh uh, but I I think I know
what Protestant American cultureis, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
And I'm not I'm not uh what look whether we think we
should preserve it or not, it'sgoing to pass away because uh
I'm I've been talking about thethe three republics.
Okay, the first republic inAmerica began in 1781 with the
Constitution, ended in 1861 withthe Civil War.
Second Republic begins.
(23:33):
Some things do not pass into thenext republic.
Slavery did not pass into theSecond Republic, it the Civil
War ended slavery.
Second Republic, 1865 to 1945,that that ends with World War
II, the victory in World War II.
Everything is an 80-year cyclehere.
And so 1945, you have certainthings.
(23:53):
The Holocaust narrative is thefoundational myth or story of
the Third Republic.
Americans are great people, theysave Jews from the Nazis and so
on and so forth.
That justifies uh socialengineering, blah, blah, blah.
We are now at the end of theThird Republic, 19, 2025, 80
years.
And now I'm saying one of thethings that's not going to pass
(24:16):
into the Fourth Republic isconservatism.
Okay, Judeo-Christian morality.
Nobody believes aJudeo-Christian morality anymore
because of the Jews' response tothe overturning of Roe versus
Wade when they said abortion's afundamental Jewish value.
Protestantism is not going topass into the fourth republic.
The churches are evaporatingnow.
(24:38):
One of the rising things risingnow is the Muslim population.
Places like Dearborn, they hadbig disturbances in Dearborn,
which were orchestrated uh tofor effect.
I'm saying we have to understandthis movement of history and uh
what is going to stay behind andwhat's going to move forward.
SPEAKER_04 (25:00):
Yeah, we've been we've been talking a lot about
like you can sense we're comingto the end of a story right now,
right?
So you you have you had the umyou have you had the American
Revolution is that first period,the Civil War is that second
period, and the and World WarII, the Holocaust narrative
comes out of that third period.
Now the two the two previousstill do hold some kind of a
(25:25):
foundational role in America,but we but what comes next?
Like, are are we looking atanother event to have uh like a
an um a myth to base this next80-year period on?
SPEAKER_01 (25:40):
You want me to nominate a myth?
No, no, no.
SPEAKER_04 (25:43):
I'm I'm worried they're going to create one,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (25:45):
Like that's they're trying to create one right now.
The fundament thefundamentalization that's going
on right now is the governmentand the Jewish foundations, like
the Shillman Foundation, arepromoting Islamophobia right now
to distract everyone from theJews' genocide in Gaza.
That is the whole point of this.
The Jews are losing control ofthe narrative, they're upset,
they're getting hysterical,everything is anti-Semitic,
(26:08):
they're going crazy, they wantto ban everybody.
Uh, and I'm saying that uh theso at this point, the the group
that kind of was the dominantgroup that held everything
together, namely theProtestants, they're
disappearing.
You got a new group rising, theMuslims.
We have no idea how the Muslimsare going to assimilate because
(26:30):
they've never done it before.
So I'm I'm I gave a talk uh uhat a mosque in in uh Dallas, and
I'm sitting in the lobby on thatside, it's not it's an Islamic
center.
On this side, the right side isthe mosque.
You go into the mosque, on theleft side is a basketball court,
and there's a kid in a wearing ajalabi, you know, the long uh
(26:53):
harab shirt that they wear,doing jump shots.
Well, this is a form ofassimilation.
So I'd like to say to my Muslimuh friends, who's going to
determine what type of Americanyou are?
Is it going to be the NBA?
You're going to have thoseMuslim kids wearing gold chains?
(27:13):
You're going to idolize SeanKemp?
Do you remember Sean Kemp?
He's a local boy.
Came from uh, he played uh theNBA, came from Elkhart, Indiana,
which is right next here, nextdoor here.
He won the uh championship ofillegitimate children, fathering
illegitimate children, fathered19 illegitimate children when he
(27:35):
was in the NBA.
Is that the role model you'regonna have?
SPEAKER_04 (27:38):
Uh it's probably gonna be hip hop and like
because I think Muslims aregoing to assimilate more towards
black culture, and that's thethat's kind of what I'm getting
at least.
SPEAKER_01 (27:46):
Exactly, you're exactly right.
That is exactly right, becausethey're not white, okay?
And so I have a my my white myoldest son lives in Dearborn,
and they pick up the nextgeneration, picks up everything
bad about America, yeah, whichis like fast cars, okay.
Fast cars doing 100 miles anhour in Dearborn the wrong way
(28:09):
down a one-way street.
This is this is now Yemeniculture in in uh in uh Dearborn.
And the guy who did that he justdied, you know, killed himself
and uh three other uh Muslims,probably Yemenis, by hitting a
tree at 100 miles an hour.
SPEAKER_04 (28:27):
Yeah, I I work with a Muslim guy who I have some
really good conversations with.
Um, and the most the one thingwe can always bond on is how the
Jews are behind everything.
So we live in New York, and he'slike, he's like, I he's like,
Well, my Muslim friends are allexcited about Mam Dani.
They don't know the Jews ownhim.
He's you got a sewage mayor.
(28:48):
We don't have a Muslim mayor,you know, because he's he's
telling me, he's like, look, youyou, you know, I he's he's from
uh Turkey, he's Turkish, andhe's like, uh, you know, you
know, you think you have a um aMuslim government there, but in
reality, they're taking moneyfrom from Israel too, and
they're kind of like, and yousaw that with uh with us with
(29:08):
Assyria when they take out Assadand they put their own guy in
now.
Because when it comes down toit, a lot of a lot of people,
even in Muslim nations, areblackmailable and people want
money or they're bribable andthings like that.
So it does seem like there'sthis I don't know.
It it is funny that that's theone thing we can we can we can
do.
SPEAKER_01 (29:28):
I think it's true.
I said we should have analliance, a Catholic Muslim
alliance, because we have acommon enemy.
Is that bad?
SPEAKER_04 (29:35):
Is it bad to say that?
I I mean it's the one thing wewe really do seem to bond on at
work.
SPEAKER_01 (29:41):
So it's you better believe it.
And I'm saying, you know, therethe Muslims are shocked when I
say that, but I mean, you know,I think that the Mamba Mund
Mamdami election was a watershedin American life.
This is a man who campaigned asa Muslim.
All the Jews, the ADL wascalling out all their troops to
(30:02):
make sure he didn't get elected.
He beat them.
Yeah, he beat them in New YorkCity.
Can you imagine that?
Beating the Jews in New YorkCity?
And he did it.
So I'm saying this is thebeginning, a harbinger of this
new era, a harbinger of theFourth Republic, the emergence
of a Muslim uh Americanidentity.
So in his acceptance piece, thefirst thing he talked about,
(30:24):
man, he mentions was EugeneDebs, the socialist.
So here he is.
This this man really didsomething very significant.
I mean, if you were talkingabout the logical progression
from the Biden administration tothe next Democratic
administration, this guy shouldhave had a bone through his nose
and purple hair and a beard anda dress, because that's what
(30:48):
politics was.
It was all gender politics atthe Democratic Party.
And he single-handedly turned itaround, turned the Democratic
Party back to its roots as therepresentative of the working
man.
That was a stroke of genius onMamdani's part.
And God bless him for doing it.
SPEAKER_04 (31:05):
Yeah.
Um, okay, so okay, so now youthe oh go ahead, Rob.
SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
I was gonna say, did do you think it's possible to
actually like make an alliancewith with a group that has a
doctrine like Takia, where theywhere you know it it allows them
to lie, you know, morally intheir eyes?
SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
Did Mamdami get elected or not?
This is proof that it'spossible.
This is proof that it'spossible.
SPEAKER_04 (31:32):
Yeah, it's it's a rough one, man.
I don't know because like likepart of me thinks like a lot of
the hostility between Catholicsand Muslims is caused by the
Jews, but at the same time, yougotta think back to the
Crusades, and and we kind of aremortal enemies with one another,
too.
SPEAKER_01 (31:48):
Well, look, I I just did an article, so it's the
immediate thing, which isDearborn, I covered that, and
the the feds who are trying tofoment violence there.
But the deep grammar here ofthis is Tolkien, the Lord of the
Rings.
Do you remember the Lord?
Have you read The Lord of theRings?
The culmination, the grandbattle is Minus Tirith.
(32:10):
Yep.
Minus Tirith is Vienna, 1683.
Orcs are Turks.
These are these people from theEast.
It's kind of like the orc is acombination of the Turk in 1683
and the Soviet army in 1945.
They're bad people coming fromthe east, and they're going to
take take us over.
Okay.
(32:30):
Okay, I loved, I love that idea.
I love the story of Vienna andJan Zobieski and the cavalry
sweeping down from the Viennawoods and saving Vienna.
Uh, it's a great story.
When I did a book tour in Polandfor Libido Dominandi, the Polish
edition, and every every speechI gave all over Poland, I said,
(32:52):
the West has failed.
And everybody gets a littledown.
And I said, but that's not theend of the story.
The end of the story came whenJan Zobieski saved Vienna, and
all the Poles would jump up andcheer.
They like that story.
Okay, but it's not 1683 anymore.
And do you know why the Polishcavalry is not going to save us
(33:12):
anymore?
Because the because the you'reright.
I mean, so let's say the modernday equivalent, some type of
dramatic external change.
The main reason is the Turks,the orcs are inside the city
now.
Yeah.
The cavalry charge only worksbecause there was some brave
(33:32):
Austrian who stood there with apike when the Perks blew a hole
in the wall and basicallyprevented those types, prevented
the orcs from coming into thecity.
He stood in the breach, and andthat allowed the Polish cavalry
to extur to solve that problemfrom the outside.
That's over now.
(33:53):
Why is it over?
Why is Ireland in such a badsituation now?
My friend Gemma is likeDenethor.
She's saying the West hasfailed.
She's ready to throw herself onthe funeral pyre.
Because the Irish stopped havingchildren.
The Germans stopped havingchildren.
The Italians stopped havingchildren.
And not only did they stophaving children, they killed a
(34:15):
lot of their own children.
And so I said to Gemma, forevery Irish baby that you people
aborted, God sent a Muslim andan African to take their place
because nature abhors a vacuum.
So put down your Molotovcocktail, Gemma, and start
thinking along spiritual lines.
SPEAKER_04 (34:36):
Well, that's kind of what I want to get into here
because yes, the the orcs areinside the gates at this point,
right?
Now you're absolutely right.
You're absolutely right.
Now, what what you just said isactually kind of how I see it.
I see it as we because theydidn't fight their way in, we
welcomed them in.
SPEAKER_01 (34:55):
Now, how now nature abhorse a vaccine?
They the I they killed their ownchildren.
Do you think God didn't noticewhen that happened?
SPEAKER_04 (35:04):
Not just that, but don't don't you see instead like
because you're talking about analliance, but don't you kind of
see this as like the Assyrianscoming in to destroy the temple
at this point?
Like, do you do you not see likeGod's judgment coming upon us?
SPEAKER_01 (35:17):
I think I tell them God Islam is the scourge of God.
That's always what it'd been.
Whenever the Christians wouldlose or fight each other, the
Turks would move up the Danube.
Okay, they're inside the wallnow.
Yeah.
What are we gonna do?
And I'm saying, I in this, I seewhat Hegel would call the
(35:40):
cunning of reason.
Okay, who did this to us?
It was basically the Jews, theHebrew Immigrant Aid Society.
Alejandro Majorcus used to bethe head of it.
He let the board open theborder, anybody, millions of
people crossed the borderbecause that was his plan.
The Jews want to wreck thedominant culture of the United
States and every Europeancountry.
(36:01):
Yeah, that's not the end of thestory.
What's the cunning of reason?
God brings about his plan byallowing the wicked to do evil
and then turning it into good.
So what's the story here?
Let's take England, for example.
The degenerate culture inEngland now, 48% of all
(36:23):
pregnancies get uh end anabortion in England.
You got these sluts with theirtattoos, you got the soccer
hooligans, they're all followingTommy Robinson, uh, who wants to
blow up the uh the buses withthe immigrants on them.
Those people are moreconservative when it comes to
sexual morality than the nativesare.
(36:45):
And that's the cunning ofreason, and that's the basis for
what we are doing now inEngland.
We're working with the Muslims.
My good friend Sean Norton, theIrishman living in London, is
having a lot of success talkingto the Muslims, supporting Dr.
Rehiani Ali, who was banned,kicked out of the medical uh
(37:07):
national health service becauseshe defended Palestinians in an
op-ed piece.
That's wrong.
And I'm saying we have acommonality here, not just a
common enemy, but a commonalityin our understanding of the
moral law.
If we can make this clear, Ithink we have the possibility to
(37:28):
turn the evil, which is thisweaponized migration, it's an
evil, I'm not gonna deny that,turn it into a good in an
unexpected way.
SPEAKER_04 (37:36):
Yeah, that's an interesting uh okay.
So, okay, so let's get let's getback to some of your work again.
Um, so what makes you startwriting the Jewish revolutionary
spirit?
SPEAKER_01 (37:50):
The war in Iraq.
SPEAKER_04 (37:53):
So it was what I was doing.
SPEAKER_01 (37:55):
2003, 2003, uh the Jews, they're called
neoconservatives at this point.
They take over our foreignpolicy and they uh uh engage
American American treasure andlives in a project that only is
supposed it benefits Israel.
It's supposed to benefit Israel,had no benefit whatsoever for
(38:16):
the United States of America.
At that point, the scales fellfrom my eyes, and I realized we
got a Jewish problem.
They have just taken over ourforeign policy.
There's no way to get around it.
SPEAKER_04 (38:26):
And now you must have been like a lone voice
crying.
You better believe it.
SPEAKER_01 (38:31):
You better believe it.
You better believe how lonely itwas back then.
SPEAKER_04 (38:36):
I can't imagine.
SPEAKER_01 (38:37):
I was excommunicated from the conservative movement
because I I uh went to the SamFrancis Memorial at the National
Press Club, and I said uh gavehim the thesis of the Jewish
revolutionary spirit, and thepeople ran screaming from the
room.
Taki was there.
It was like the the paleoconaristocracy, Taki's there.
(38:59):
We're all gonna be, we're allgonna be arrested.
Stop, stop, you know, and thatwas that was the moment.
The moment was I was ahead of mytime.
Yeah, I was ahead of that.
That was 2008.
Now it's not lonely anymore.
There are plenty of I'll I'llI'll I'll make a statement.
If you're if you want have anycredibility with the the the
(39:24):
younger generation, the20-year-olds, you have to
address the Jewish question.
And the man who did it was NickFuentes.
That's why he's got thisfollowing.
SPEAKER_04 (39:33):
Well, it's not just that, it but like I I think what
you were doing back then,because I remember you being
ostracized, but you weren't justostracized from conservative
politics, it was the church, thelike the the the mainstream
church, like you were personanon grata.
You're right, and you you werenot allowed, like they they they
shunned you, you know.
And I remember seeing you kindof reappear during the no fat
(39:57):
movement.
Like, I I remember you beinginvolved, so like talking about.
These were secular guys whodecided to like stop looking at
pornography for the month ofNovember.
And I remember you popping up inthose conversations back then.
SPEAKER_01 (40:09):
Right.
Right.
You're absolutely right.
So I was ahead of my time withanother book that was called
Libido Dominandi, SexualLiberation and Political
Control.
I wrote that book came out in2003.
I was so ahead of my time thatthe most significant thing to
ratify that thesis happened oneyear after the book came out.
And that was when the Israelitroops went into Ramallah.
(40:32):
They took over the TV stationsand they started broadcasting
pornography over the TVstations.
That was proof that sexualliberation was a form of
political control.
Or else you have to say that theIsraelis want to bring freedom
to the Palestinians becausepornography is freedom if you're
an American.
So that was and it's so I had toconvince people and they say,
(40:55):
nah, that you're crazy, it'scrazy.
And then suddenly there came atime when an entire generation
is addicted to pornographybecause of their cell phones.
SPEAKER_03 (41:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:04):
And they know they are a slave to their passions.
And when I say uh sexualiseration is a form of control,
they understand immediately whatI'm talking about.
When I say that a man has asmany masters as he has vices,
which is what St.
Augustine said, they knowimmediately, and sometimes they
stop watching pornography likethat, just because of that.
(41:25):
Just because the the scales fallfrom out.
Yeah, it's a form of control.
I understand why I'm somiserable now.
I'm not going to do thisanymore.
SPEAKER_04 (41:33):
Yeah, I mean, Augustine says it, right?
Like you're only as free as youare free from your vices.
I mean, it's that's right.
It's like if if if if somethinghas a grip on you like that,
it's it's it is absolutely aform of control.
So yeah, and I so I rememberseeing you popping up in those
in those conversations, and thenI came across Logos Rising.
(41:54):
Now, Logos Rising, the openingchapters, you you kind of broke
this this um, I don't know, justmy my my whole thinking about
evolution and just howridiculous some of the stuff
they say about evolution is whenyou're even when you're breaking
down how an eye forms you'relike they're saying it's a cell
that can receive light, butthat's not sight.
(42:16):
Like, like how can nature choosea gene that doesn't exist if
you're talking about you knowsurvival of the fitness?
SPEAKER_01 (42:23):
It's like that's exactly right.
How can have that selectionprocess for something that
doesn't exist?
That's impossible, and thatcomes down it comes down to it's
biased in Logos Rising.
Parmenides said that which iscannot come from that which is
not.
That is absolutely true, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (42:41):
Yeah, and you and you go through I I gave three
copies of that book away becauseI I was just the way you went
through just explaining all oflike human civilization, how it
comes about, and then when youget to the Greeks, you you
explain how the uh like theGreek philosophers are all
they're they're wrestling withthis idea of logos because they
(43:03):
know there's some kind of likerationality to the universe, and
then Paul goes and tries topreach at the Areop uh Area,
what is it, the Areopagus?
Or yes, the Areopagus.
Yeah, he goes to preach there,and then and he talks about the
unknown god, and they kind oflaugh him out of there, but
like, but that Saint John likereally took that and and he and
(43:24):
he he understood the Greek mindin a in an amazing way, and he
was able to bring that bringthat home with the in the
beginning was the logo.
SPEAKER_01 (43:32):
He understood that the world was changing, okay.
That when as soon as St.
Paul said that dream about thatGreek kid saying, Come over
here, the world was going tochange, and you couldn't just
limit it to these Hebrews.
Uh, and then so as a result, youcan't hand them the gospel of
Saint Matthew, which is thislong Hebrew genealogy with names
they never heard before.
(43:53):
And so I say I speculate thatSt.
John wrote his gospel in lightof St.
Paul's failure at the Areopagus,and an understanding now we've
got to have a new approach tothis new group of people, and
this approach is going to be inGreek.
We're going to write this gospelin Greek, and we're going to
begin with the most fundamentalGreek term, which is logos,
(44:17):
rationality.
That's seven pages of Englishequivalents in the little El
Hart uh uh Scott Liddell uhGreek English dictionary.
Okay, and he begins by saying,in the beginning, there was the
word.
See, the problem is he can't useEnglish.
SPEAKER_03 (44:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:34):
In the beginning, there was a word, imprincipio
erod verbum, am Anfang VadasWord.
They're all the same, and noneof them has the resonance that
the word Logos had.
So I had to change it, I had toresurrect the word Logos, bring
it back, and say, in thebeginning, there was Logos.
In other words, there was anorder to the universe that was
(44:54):
inescapable.
There was never chaos.
There was always an order to theuniverse.
And Logos was with God, andLogos is God.
Now, that is one of the mostprofound statements in all of
human history.
Logos is God.
And I tried to talk that waybecause I the I wrote Logos
Rising based on my experience ofgoing with Iran, to Iran.
(45:18):
One of the great experiences ofmy life, thanks to my late
friend Nader Talabzada, who wasa genius who bring at bringing
people together.
So they brought brought me overthere, and I'm thinking we now
can talk to people in Iran.
We can talk to people all overthe world.
We have the language, you havethe technology.
What are we going to talk about?
(45:38):
You know, I'll buy three, howmuch they cost?
Maybe something moresophisticated.
Or let's put it this way (45:44):
is there a basis for some type of
universal consensus among all ofmankind right now?
And if there is, I'm saying theonly thing that fills that
requirement is the term logos.
Because we are all rationalcreatures, and rationality is
(46:05):
not uh optional.
SPEAKER_04 (46:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (46:10):
We have to be rational.
SPEAKER_04 (46:12):
You you think back to like uh when when 9-11
happens and we go into Iraq andwe do all this stuff, and it's
like George Bush is like, we'regonna bring democracy to these
people.
And you're like, what?
You're gonna bring democracy tothese people?
Like, we could you imagine if wewould have brought the gospel to
these people?
It would have been just such abut you how do you bring the
(46:34):
gospel?
SPEAKER_01 (46:34):
Let's talk.
I want to talk to these people,and God bless them.
The Iranians were great people.
They I could talk to them.
I was I was the first time I'mthere, I'm one of like three
million people were celebratingthe revel 1979 revolution.
I'm surrounded by women andcharters.
And they start saying, AloAkbar, and I understand.
(46:57):
They start saying somethinglike, uh, I don't understand it.
So I turned to my translator, Isaid, What are they saying?
He said, Death to America.
SPEAKER_03 (47:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (47:05):
They have are geniuses when it comes to uh
separating the regime from thepeople.
They understood that perfectly,and we could talk one person to
another.
That was the great thing aboutgoing to Iran.
SPEAKER_04 (47:21):
Oh, so they didn't they didn't just see an American
and think you're death likedeath to you.
They would talk to you and theysaw the American machine as
something totally different.
SPEAKER_01 (47:31):
Well, you know, that's a government.
I I didn't, I didn't, I wasn'tin favor of the war invading
Iraq.
We we are captives to agovernment that doesn't
represent our interests.
The fundamental issue throughoutthe world right now is
representative democracy.
We don't have it.
Yeah, every system is basicallyyou take money from the rich
(47:52):
folk, but you have to pander tothe people, you get the votes
from the people, and as soon asyou come into office, you do
what the rich folk want.
SPEAKER_05 (48:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (48:02):
I voted for Donald Trump, but that's what he did.
SPEAKER_04 (48:05):
Yeah, okay.
So look, we uh I I want I wantto promote your new book here
now, and then I want to talk theJewish revolutionary spirit, and
I want to talk the Holocaustnarrative on uh behind the
paywall.
And we will release it onYouTube, but you guys gotta come
and you gotta put because Idon't know where we're gonna go
with it.
But uh what your new book thatyou just came out with is called
Um Walking with a Bible and aGun.
(48:27):
What what what got you to evenstart this one?
SPEAKER_01 (48:32):
Uh I had a guy write to me and said uh he he he he
could trace his ancestors backto 1680 something, you know.
So he said, then I became aCatholic.
So now I know what it means tobe a Catholic, but I don't know
what it means to be an Americananymore.
And I had the sense, like afterthe identity politics of the
(48:53):
Democratic Party, where you, inorder to be an American, you had
to be uh, you know, a homosexualor a Negro or part of feminist,
something like that.
These are all identity, identitypolitics, identity groups.
Is there an overarchingprinciple that unites us as
Americans?
And if so, what is it?
That was basically the premise.
(49:15):
And I'm I'm right with this isin mind as Trump uh arrives on
the scene with a slogan calledMake America Great Again.
What does that mean?
Is so he obviously invoked sometype of American identity.
He invoked America first, whichI agree with uh in the first
election.
I uh he appeared in South Bend,Indiana, biggest crowd ever to
(49:37):
assemble in South Bend, Indiana,and he was there, and he talked
about uh carrier airconditioning, moving his plant
to Mexico, and everybody there,the working class there, and
they jumped up and cheered.
So, what does it mean?
So, this is why I wrote thebook.
In other words, also uh I read abook by a uh a Frenchman by the
name of Immanuel Tot.
(49:57):
The book is called La Defaite del'Occident.
Uh hasn't been translated inEnglish yet, but uh he said
basically the American Empire isdisappearing, is going to fall,
because the hidden grammar ofthe American Empire is
Protestantism, and Protestantismis evaporating.
Yeah.
(50:18):
And I said, that's true.
He he understands what he'sdoing.
This is a long line of Frenchmenlike De Tolcville, people like
that who come over and try andinterpret try to understand what
America is.
But then he he chose in to say,well, what's Protestantism?
And he goes down the rat rabbithole known as Max Weber, which
is a waste of time.
And I said, if you want tounderstand the mind of
(50:40):
English-speaking people, youhave to understand poetry and
literature.
And if you want to understandthe mind of America, the
American founders, all the wayup to the present, you have to
read a certain poem.
And that poem is called ParadiseLost by John Milton.
And if you want to understandthat poem, you have to read the
beginning of it, where Satanwakes up in hell and he gives a
(51:03):
speech that is one of thegreatest speeches in American
literature, you know, and itends the speech by saying,
better to reign in hell than toserve in heaven.
Well, you know, your Americanheart starts beating faster when
you hear that, you know.
That's that's who we are.
We're all Satanist.
SPEAKER_03 (51:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (51:22):
The Halo grammar of America is Satanism.
SPEAKER_04 (51:26):
Yeah, that's a that's a that's a it sounds like
a harsh thing you're saying, butthe whole founding of our
country is built on revolution,right?
So, like if you if youunderstand what um what a
culture actually is, it has todo with like the altar you
worship at, but also taking onthe patrimony that was given to
you from your forefathers andstuff like that.
(51:47):
And our country is founded onthis revolt from their
forefathers.
So revolution is kind of likebaked into the the story of who
we are, and then you have youand you know what?
I I feel like people should gowatch your interview with
Patrick Coffin because you do areally good job of getting into
the book and just and discussingProtestantism and just how this
(52:08):
there because they don't haveconfession, they're just this
this constant like uh uhdebasement that they go through,
and then they have to have arevival.
And it was a really, really welldone interview.
So if you guys want like a afull a full expiation on this,
but I really think I mean thisis the next book I'm buying of
yours that I'm going to read.
I can't wait to get into it, butum, yeah, so you guys can get
(52:28):
that on fidelitypress.org.
SPEAKER_01 (52:31):
Right.
Have to go to fidelitypress.org.
I've been banned from fromAmazon, fidelitypress.org.
The the link should be in thedescription.
SPEAKER_04 (52:39):
So um, you were pretty much like one of the
first to get banned.
Like there was there was a fewyears there where I like we
couldn't even I was afraid toeven have you on the YouTube
show, so I was afraid to ask youto come on.
And uh and and this interview, II kind of had to do a little bit
of the backstory with youbecause I've been watching you
for so long and I've never heardanybody really go through
(53:01):
everything.
And we missed a whole bunch ofbooks, also, but I definitely
the one thing you really changedthe way I see everything is on
the Jewish question, and it mademe start thinking deeper about
this stuff, and then I startedthinking about it theologically,
and it's been a topic we've beendiscussing a lot on the show.
So I'd I'd like to do that onthe other side.
So if you guys aren't members,come over to locals.
(53:22):
We will release clips of it onthe main channel.
We don't want to kill thisinterview.
This interview is amazing, but Ithink I think it's gonna be
worth coming over there to seethe rest of it.
Uh, is there anything else youwant to uh uh uh promote before
we leave here, Dr.
Jones?
SPEAKER_01 (53:36):
No, that's it.
The Walking with the Bible a gunis the most recent book.
SPEAKER_04 (53:40):
Okay, guys, go check that out.
FidelityPress.org.
Uh, I promise you, if you'venever read a Dr.
E.
Michael Jones book, there's it'snothing like them.
They're they're just filled withthings you wouldn't.
Uh I I I'm one of your uh youryour biggest fans, so I will
never not promote you.
And then and maybe we'll discussthe our difference uh different
approach on the liturgy, also.
I want there's a couple ofthings I want to talk about over
(54:02):
there.
So all right, take us out.
Yeah, he's just gonna kill thefeeds to everything.
Yeah, uh the liturgy one, you uhit I because I know you're
you're like we really I've I'vegrown to love the traditional
liturgy, right?
(54:23):
And um I know uh
You have two options in life, at least intellectual
options.
You can either conform yourdesires to the truth, or you can
conform the truth to yourdesires.
And it seems to me that justabout every modern thinker that
(00:25):
I came up with, now that thebiographies were coming out, had
chosen the latter course.
They had decided to suppress thetruth because it didn't conform
to their desires.
So Sigmund Freud would say, Allmen have a desire to sleep with
their mothers and their sisters.
All men, Sigmund.
(00:48):
I found that hard to hard toswallow when I first heard it.
And then suddenly the story ofFreud's relationship with his
sister came out, and suddenlythis became somewhat more
understandable.
SPEAKER_03 (01:03):
You got me.
SPEAKER_04 (01:11):
Dr.
E.
Michael Jones, we have we havewanted to do this interview for
so long.
Um, okay, so uh we have a lot toget to tonight because I I've
never had a chance to speak withyou, but I've been admiring your
work for a very long time.
So we're I would like to kind ofstart back at Degenerate
Moderns, and because all of yourbooks seem to flow into each
(01:35):
other, where you startdiscussing the topic of the next
book in the book you're writingat the moment, and and they all
just seem to flow into oneanother.
And Degenerate Moderns was thefirst book I read of yours, and
it was um, you have theseunbelievable Chestertonian
quotes in that book.
Um, one that stood out to me wasum it they they were they they
(01:57):
tried to sell us on.
Well, I'm not gonna get thequote exactly right, but they
tried to sell us on thatreligion is the opiate for the
masses, but it turns out thatopiates are the religion of the
masses, and and you get and it'slike you have these throughout
your work, and I'm I'm I'm Iyour books are amazing.
Um, and you you you always havea way of kind of bringing it,
(02:17):
bringing it down to to a levellike even what you just saw in
that clip.
So um what year was DegenerateModerns?
And that was that was the firstone that you really you wrote
books before that, but that wasthe first one that kind of
popped off, right?
SPEAKER_01 (02:30):
Yeah, it did.
It got a lot of response fromthe conservative movement at
that period of time.
Uh so it was around uh, I thinkit was 92.
Oh, that was a 92, and that mesaying that that's a direct
quote from uh DegenerateModerns, what I said.
That was a C Spa I C-SPAN, I uhwas Washington, I think it was
(02:50):
uh about uh around the time ofeveryone was talking about the
universities, about the takeoverof the universities by what we
call political correctness.
So, but it was also, I mean, Istarted off uh uh intellectually
as a as a literary critic.
I got a PhD in Americanliterature from Temple
University at a time when therewas a big contestation.
(03:14):
This was the beginning of thetakeover of the universities.
I had a front row seat to it.
Uh and uh the the issue when Iwas in graduate school uh was
Ezra Pound.
SPEAKER_04 (03:26):
Uh oh, go ahead.
I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01 (03:28):
I so it the question, so the he was uh the
man well along with T.S.
Eliot, who revised the Englishlanguage at the beginning of the
20th century, uh Pound edited uhthe wasteland for T.
S.
Eliot, and they developed aliterary criticism that
eventually became known as theNew Criticism, which was
basically close textual reading,uh forget about everything else.
(03:52):
Uh well, I have nothing againstuh close textual reading, but
there's a certain point whereit's not going to reveal what's
going on.
And if you a classic example wasuh, as I mentioned, Sigmund
Freud.
You can do a close textualreading all you want, and the
problem is he's not being honestwith you.
Uh all the people I mentioned inDegenerate Moderns had a kind of
(04:13):
hidden agenda.
Uh, and in order to find out thehidden agenda, you had to do the
by read the biography, which issomething nobody ever did when
the new criticism was in charge.
So it was a kind of truncated,uh not a bad idea, but a
limited, truncated version of uhwhat you needed to understand
literature.
SPEAKER_04 (04:34):
That's the interesting thing about all of
your books, is that you the theresearch that you're doing for
these books is it's it'ssomething that nobody else
really does, where you're you'rereading the work and then you're
going back and studying theperson that actually wrote the
work to try to get to themotivations of the person
writing the work.
I watched your interview withPatrick Coffin yesterday, and
you were even doing that, likelike explaining so much of like
(04:57):
the motivations behind theEnglish, the English language
and why why we kind of perceiveeverything the way we do.
So, what book comes afterdegenerate moderns?
SPEAKER_01 (05:07):
Dionysus Rising.
SPEAKER_04 (05:09):
Okay, well, what was that one?
I never even heard of that one.
SPEAKER_01 (05:12):
Uh, it's basically the same thesis.
And uh a friend, um Canadianfriend said to me, she loved
degenerate moderns, so she said,Why don't you do something about
modern music?
So I said, Okay, I'll write achapter on it.
Well, it turns out it was muchmore complicated than I than I
thought, because I was going togo right to Arnold Schoenberg,
(05:34):
he's the classic moderncomposer, and start with him.
And I realized you can't startwith him, you have to start with
Richard Wagner.
And uh so uh his his base hismost famous work is for Claire
to Nacht.
It's a smeared version ofTristan and Azolda.
That's what his brother-in-lawsaid, and that's what it is.
(05:54):
It's Tristan and Azolda, kind ofuh made less comprehensible.
And the beginning of the book isWagner.
Wagner is a a genius in everyhe's one of these great just
monuments to what can I say?
Beauty, genius.
He's got everything.
Uh, and he's he was a tremendousfigure.
(06:16):
And everybody in the 19thcentury, by the end of the 19th
century, everybody had to takecare, take account of Wagner,
including people like J.R.R.
Tolkien, who got the whole ideaof the ring from Wagner and
never admitted it.
So really we can talk about thattoo.
I just I just did a piece onTolkien.
Um there's a piece I wrotecalled Tolkien's Failed Quest.
(06:38):
It's another story.
We can go into that another Thisis the problem.
We might have to make this amulti-part interview because
it's fine with me, but I'mtrying to stay on track here.
And I'm trying to say, look,this is if you want to talk
about Wagner, let's talk aboutTristan und Zolde.
It's about sexual liberation,and it swept all of Germany
away.
(06:58):
Schirmberg was swept away withit.
He was in Vienna when everybodywas going to Bayreuth, listening
to Wagner, and he was in theBohemian circles there.
He's a Jew who converted to someevangelical Protestantism.
And then everybody puts it intoaction.
They watch Tristan, they decidesexual liberation is a great
idea, and you act on it, andyour life falls apart.
(07:20):
So his life fell apart when hiswife committed adultery because
she listened too much to TristanAzolde.
And he took, he was a uhreverted, he was an angry man
who reverted to Judaism.
Okay, returned to the vomit ofJudaism, uh, disavowed his
(07:41):
baptism and vowed not justrevenge on his wife, but revenge
on the West and on the music itcreated.
And so that's what you have toknow to understand Schoenberg.
SPEAKER_04 (07:53):
Okay, so that so now you start uh exploring music,
and then where do you go fromthere?
Because I'm like all of thesebooks leading do you go to the
uh the slaughter of cities afterthat?
SPEAKER_01 (08:02):
Or is that no uh Living Machines?
I went to architecture, modernarchitecture, Bauhaus
architecture.
I looked into Gropius.
Like, what is the meaning ofthose ugly Bauhaus buildings
that everybody hated?
Uh there were all over theworld, they conquered the world.
You had the same, uh, you had uhthe same stupid building in
(08:25):
Leningrad as you had in Nairobi.
Okay, so in Leningrad, you got aflat roof when you get nine feet
of snow.
That doesn't work.
You're gonna have a leaky roof.
In Nairobi, I've been inNairobi, I've been to the uh
Jomo Kenyati University.
You have uh again anotherBauhaus building with huge plate
glass windows.
(08:47):
The sun comes through thesewindows, and you've got a solar
oven.
This is not appropriate for theequator, it's not appropriate
for St.
Petersburg, it's just anideology.
And as an ideology, I think Ican uh deduce it from the facts
of Gopius' life.
That was the third book.
SPEAKER_04 (09:04):
What year does Bauhaus actually start being uh
used?
SPEAKER_01 (09:08):
Well, the famous book is uh nine uh building is
1970s, the Fagus uh shoefactory.
1907.
1907 is a crucial year formodernity.
It's the same year that Picassodid uh Les Dames d'Avignon.
It's also the same year that uhPius X wrote his uh encyclical
(09:32):
on modernism.
So it's a quick this is aturning point.
It's a turning point, uh, and uhthat's the first building.
And Gropius founded a school ofdesign, uh Bauhaus, and
eventually he was run out oftown by Hitler.
Uh and so Bauhaus split up.
Uh he went to uh Harvard, andhis assistant went to uh Moscow,
(09:54):
and between the two of them,between the East and the West,
Bauhaus took over the entireworld, especially after after
World War II.
SPEAKER_04 (10:01):
Yeah, that's what that's what I was going to ask
you because something happens toarchitecture after World War II,
where even the church itselfstops building these beautiful
cathedrals and and churcharchitecture changes, and
everything kind of just I don'tknow, everything just kind of
flattens out and just gets youget start getting churches in
the run.
I don't know if that's atheological issue or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (10:23):
It is it is theological.
You know what the uh the priestdidn't realize is that there was
a theology to Bauhaus that wasantithetical to the Catholic
faith.
And so uh nobody understoodthis.
No, nobody understood.
They they they the big push camewith Vatican II where we had
nothing to fear uh mod aboutfrom the modern world, and so we
(10:45):
uh indulged in this experimentof the Bauhaus church and didn't
realize there's a message here,and the message is contradicting
the gospel you're supposed to bepreaching.
What was his term for thosebuildings?
He called them von Machine, andI called the title on book is
Living Machines or Machines forLiving In.
Man is a machine.
(11:06):
This is the Enlightenment, it'sa reduction of man to uh, as a
as I said, a machine.
Uh and uh it didn't work, didn'twork.
So we had to, you know, in inPhiladelphia, the modernists
took over the city, cityplanning uh around 1950,
something like that.
They were all back from WorldWar II.
(11:27):
They all felt as if they hadconquered the world, and they
start building buildings for thesharecroppers.
Black sharecroppers are comingup from North Carolina, and it
doesn't work.
It's not working.
Same thing with um the RobertTaylor homes in Chicago, all
across uh the northern cities ofthe United States, the cities
start building these uh highhigh-rise warehouses for Negroes
(11:52):
from the South.
They're called the projects.
Bill Cosby grew up in one ofthem, and and it didn't work.
It did, it didn't work.
Uh there was a kind ofmaterialism there that kind of
snuffed out the spirituality,the Protestant, you know, kind
of emotional spirituality theybrought up from the South.
They started acting likemachines, they started acting
(12:12):
like sex machines, as JamesBrown would say.
Uh, and the whole thing fellapart.
Their families fell apart.
And what would you, well, thelegacy is the gang violence that
still exists in Chicago.
SPEAKER_04 (12:24):
Yeah, I there's this uh 10-part series on PBS about
New York, where it starts in the1600s with the the Dutch
settling in New York, and itjust takes you through all the
way up to 9-11.
So it was a documentary they putup put out right after 9-11.
But when you get into thatperiod after World War II and
you have Robert Mosesreconstructing all the roadways
(12:45):
in New York, and he's basicallybreaking up these beautiful,
like uh Italian little ghettosthat you had of like this
beautiful Italian culture, thisIrish culture, and they come in
with eminent domain, they putthese like hideous highway
systems through, they move allthe black people up to these
projects in the in the bad areasof the city.
They're they're elevated off theground, so they have no
(13:08):
connection to the to thereality, you know, where they
live.
So they start treating the arealike crap and all this, but it's
such a a wild thing to watch,and then you start getting
people moving out to thesuburbs.
SPEAKER_01 (13:20):
That happens at the same time.
So you're the the commondenominator here is called
social engineering, and therewere basically two forms of
social engineering after WorldWar II.
What we're talking about, Icover in my book, The Slaughter
of Cities, which is basicallyurban planning, urban renewal.
And I said it was ethniccleansing, uh primarily ethnic
(13:41):
cleansing of the Catholic, uhCatholic ethnic neighborhoods.
Uh and the main instrument ofthe ethnic cleansing was the
black people that came up fromthe South.
You just put them in there, anyimmigrant group is, and they
were an immigrant group.
They these people in Chicagotalked about Mississippi the way
my parents talked about Irelandor Germany.
(14:03):
Okay, and they came up there,and the immediate result when
you move into this kind ofderacinated immigrant society is
gangs, gangs formed.
And the gangs became then thelump and proletariat engaging in
random violence that's going todrive the Catholics out of their
neighborhood.
So it's bauhouse for the Negroesin the city, uh Levittown for
(14:30):
the people in the suburbs.
So when you're when you're inChicago, you're Polish or you're
Irish or Italian, when you getto the suburbs, you're white.
And that was the whole pointbecause this social engineering
was race-based.
The Kruger year was 54.
Brown versus school board, whereuh they strike down segregation
(14:52):
in the South.
The same year they do Bermanversus Parker, which is the
urban renewal decision, whichbasically says the city has the
right of eminent domain, andthey can take whatever they
want, and you have no recourse.
It was named after a guy,probably a Jew by the name of
Berman, who had a clothing storein Washington.
There was nothing wrong with hisbuilding.
(15:13):
He said, I want to be here.
If you want to rejoin, rebuildthe neighborhood, I want to be
here.
I want to sell them clothes.
No, you're not part of the plan,and they tore his building down.
So this is the twin, the twinevils of social engineering were
urban renewal, ethnic cleansing,and the other one was sexual
liberation as a form ofpolitical control.
And I was I was a guinea pig inthis experiment.
(15:36):
I was in my mother's womb whenthe Kinsey Report came out.
I was born four months after theKinsey Report.
This is the bad sign that I wasborn under.
SPEAKER_04 (15:49):
I I grew up in Levitown, by the way.
In Long Island?
Yeah, Long Island.
Good.
SPEAKER_01 (15:55):
That's the first you were the first pioneer for
Levitown.
SPEAKER_04 (15:59):
Um, so uh well okay, so let's let's touch on race a
little bit because I know I'veseen you and Nick Fuentes go
back and forth about the racething.
Um because once they break upthose Catholic communities and
you do get the suburbs, doesn'ta white culture actually form
though?
Like like because you you do youdid see there would be like
(16:20):
Italian culture, there would beIrish culture, there would be
you know German culture, andwhen especially in the city,
they would kind of stay groupedtogether and they would stay
amongst their own.
But once they do move out to thesuburbs, there like doesn't a
new culture kind of getdeveloped at that point?
SPEAKER_01 (16:35):
Yes, you're right.
It's called American.
So I am biracial, okay?
I am not white, I'm biracial,I'm Irish and German.
This is inevitable.
Okay, when you bring thesepeople over here, it's
inevitable that they're going toget together and they're you're
gonna see intermarriage.
The the thing that explains thisin terms of American ethnicity
(16:57):
is something called the triplemelting pot, which says after
three generations, everyimmigrant group becomes uh one
of three groups Protestant,Catholic, Jew.
Now, this was uh developed inthe 1940s.
There were basically no Muslimshere at that point, but it could
be expanded to include Muslimsin places like Dearborn, because
I think they're they're therising group.
(17:20):
So I I would claim that uh afterI'm third generation.
By third generation, they saythat's when your religion
becomes your ethnicity.
My grandfather was born inIreland.
He was just he came over here,he was an Irishman from the day
he got here until the day hedied.
My father was second generation,he didn't know who he was, he
(17:43):
couldn't decide whether he wasIrish or American.
By the time I came around, itwas clear that I and my
generation, we were allAmericans, but we were a
particular kind of American, wewere Catholic Americans, as
opposed to Protestant Americans,as opposed to Jewish Americans.
That's interesting.
SPEAKER_04 (18:01):
So I I I work construction.
I am I my my father's Italian,my mom's Irish, right?
Now I work with all theseItalian guys, and they would
speak Italian around me and theywould they would laugh at me and
they go, yo, you stupid Americanboy, because you don't
understand Italian, you know,like my father understood it,
but by the time you get to me, Idon't understand it.
Now, my kids, my wife's German,I'm Italian.
(18:23):
My kids have they're they'rejust Catholic at this point.
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (18:27):
That's what it comes down to.
My mother, I I saw I'm learningGerman.
My grandfather, my Germangrandfather's living with me.
So I came home after my firstweek of learning German in high
school.
I said, say something in inGerman.
And he said, Schwamm Letschte,which I couldn't understand.
That's that's the dialect.
Okay, I had to learn that on myown.
(18:49):
My mother was 100% German, shedidn't speak any German.
Because the dialect that mygrandfather spoke didn't make
any sense.
It was so peculiar that itdidn't work.
You couldn't learn, you couldn'tlearn German by learning that.
SPEAKER_04 (19:01):
Yeah, yeah.
The guys I work with, if theythey were Sicilians, so if they
went to Italy, it's a totallydifferent, you know, especially
because they they came here inthe in the in the you know,
early, late 19 uh mid to early1900s.
So um, so what is thedisagreement that you always
have with Nick?
Because I I I see you, I see youguys going back and forth a lot.
I never actually got which Nickare you talking about?
SPEAKER_01 (19:22):
Uh there are there are multiple Nicks out there,
there are multiple Nick Fuentes.
SPEAKER_04 (19:27):
Because I would imagine you guys would agree on
a lot when it comes to the thethe issue of the Jews, but
right.
I always see you guys kind ofbutting heads on the race issue,
and I've never seen what thedisagreements are.
SPEAKER_01 (19:37):
Yeah, so sometimes Nick Fuentes, so when he's
online, he's white.
Okay, when the cops show up athis house to because of some
complaint, he walks out andsays, I'm a Mexican.
SPEAKER_03 (19:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:50):
And then he also says he's Catholic.
So he's got this multiplepersonality disorder.
I have multiple personalitydisorder because I'm Irish and
German, but the American Kind ofbrought it together.
So I'm saying I so it happenedwhen he brought on uh Jared
Taylor.
Jared Taylor is a white guy,he's a race guy.
His job is to uh uh basicallyturn Jews into white people so
(20:13):
they can become invisible.
That's always what the AmericanRenaissance was doing, and now
Nick starts spouting this racialline, and I'm trying to explain
to him that this is notcompatible with Catholicism.
Race is not an ethnic group,it's an ideology, it's a
category of the mind that gotimposed for political purposes
(20:33):
on the proletariat, on theworking class in Virginia at the
beginning of the 17th century.
The slaves there were, they wereCeltic slaves and there were
African slaves.
And they got together forBacon's rebellion and they
nearly overthrew the rule of theplantation owner class.
And they decided they're notgonna let that happen.
(20:54):
So they instituted terms likewhite and black to divide the
working class, giving whitesprivilege.
There is always a value judgmentplaced on white and black.
There's no value judgment placedon Italian or Irish or German.
That is what it is.
But when you come to white andblack, either it's white
supremacy over black people orit's black supremacy over white
(21:16):
people, and it always leads toconflict, and it's incompatible
with the Catholic faith.
It's not incompatible withProtestantism because these they
all had state churches.
And so if you were an EnglishProtestant, which is basically
what Samuel Huntington said wasour identity as Americans, an
Anglo-Protestant, you came froman island where everybody looked
(21:38):
the same.
That was a state church.
SPEAKER_03 (21:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:42):
That's different than the Catholic Church, which
is universal and has uh, youknow, branches all over the
world.
SPEAKER_04 (21:48):
Yeah, if you if you're worshiping at the same
altar, that's it's infinitelymore important than what you
look like.
It's like the when the Spanishcome to uh Mexico and South
America, they kind of form thismestizo culture because they're
at the same altar.
So there's really no no nodistinction between Gentile or
Jew or Great, you know, it'slike that kind of happens.
But but if we're in our modernuh in modern America, yeah,
(22:14):
yeah, because I do see an issuewith just just breaking down
between black and white, becauseuh white Protestant is very
different than white Catholic.
But I do I do think there's somesome big cultural differences,
especially now that we do havethis mass immigration issue with
people are coming pouring intothe floodgates, and you're
(22:34):
you're now in you know, on inwhat would have typically been a
white suburban area uh inAmerica is now kind of mixing up
with all these otherethnicities.
Now, as a Catholic, like shouldwe want like what should we want
our kids to like I don't know,like is it isn't there something
(22:55):
to this like that we should beconcerned with with preserving
what American culture, whiteAmerican culture has has I'm not
sure what white American cultureis, uh uh, but I I think I know
what Protestant American cultureis, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
And I'm not I'm not uh what look whether we think we
should preserve it or not, it'sgoing to pass away because uh
I'm I've been talking about thethe three republics.
Okay, the first republic inAmerica began in 1781 with the
Constitution, ended in 1861 withthe Civil War.
Second Republic begins.
(23:33):
Some things do not pass into thenext republic.
Slavery did not pass into theSecond Republic, it the Civil
War ended slavery.
Second Republic, 1865 to 1945,that that ends with World War
II, the victory in World War II.
Everything is an 80-year cyclehere.
And so 1945, you have certainthings.
(23:53):
The Holocaust narrative is thefoundational myth or story of
the Third Republic.
Americans are great people, theysave Jews from the Nazis and so
on and so forth.
That justifies uh socialengineering, blah, blah, blah.
We are now at the end of theThird Republic, 19, 2025, 80
years.
And now I'm saying one of thethings that's not going to pass
(24:16):
into the Fourth Republic isconservatism.
Okay, Judeo-Christian morality.
Nobody believes aJudeo-Christian morality anymore
because of the Jews' response tothe overturning of Roe versus
Wade when they said abortion's afundamental Jewish value.
Protestantism is not going topass into the fourth republic.
The churches are evaporatingnow.
(24:38):
One of the rising things risingnow is the Muslim population.
Places like Dearborn, they hadbig disturbances in Dearborn,
which were orchestrated uh tofor effect.
I'm saying we have to understandthis movement of history and uh
what is going to stay behind andwhat's going to move forward.
SPEAKER_04 (25:00):
Yeah, we've been we've been talking a lot about
like you can sense we're comingto the end of a story right now,
right?
So you you have you had the umyou have you had the American
Revolution is that first period,the Civil War is that second
period, and the and World WarII, the Holocaust narrative
comes out of that third period.
Now the two the two previousstill do hold some kind of a
(25:25):
foundational role in America,but we but what comes next?
Like, are are we looking atanother event to have uh like a
an um a myth to base this next80-year period on?
SPEAKER_01 (25:40):
You want me to nominate a myth?
No, no, no.
SPEAKER_04 (25:43):
I'm I'm worried they're going to create one,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (25:45):
Like that's they're trying to create one right now.
The fundament thefundamentalization that's going
on right now is the governmentand the Jewish foundations, like
the Shillman Foundation, arepromoting Islamophobia right now
to distract everyone from theJews' genocide in Gaza.
That is the whole point of this.
The Jews are losing control ofthe narrative, they're upset,
they're getting hysterical,everything is anti-Semitic,
(26:08):
they're going crazy, they wantto ban everybody.
Uh, and I'm saying that uh theso at this point, the the group
that kind of was the dominantgroup that held everything
together, namely theProtestants, they're
disappearing.
You got a new group rising, theMuslims.
We have no idea how the Muslimsare going to assimilate because
(26:30):
they've never done it before.
So I'm I'm I gave a talk uh uhat a mosque in in uh Dallas, and
I'm sitting in the lobby on thatside, it's not it's an Islamic
center.
On this side, the right side isthe mosque.
You go into the mosque, on theleft side is a basketball court,
and there's a kid in a wearing ajalabi, you know, the long uh
(26:53):
harab shirt that they wear,doing jump shots.
Well, this is a form ofassimilation.
So I'd like to say to my Muslimuh friends, who's going to
determine what type of Americanyou are?
Is it going to be the NBA?
You're going to have thoseMuslim kids wearing gold chains?
(27:13):
You're going to idolize SeanKemp?
Do you remember Sean Kemp?
He's a local boy.
Came from uh, he played uh theNBA, came from Elkhart, Indiana,
which is right next here, nextdoor here.
He won the uh championship ofillegitimate children, fathering
illegitimate children, fathered19 illegitimate children when he
(27:35):
was in the NBA.
Is that the role model you'regonna have?
SPEAKER_04 (27:38):
Uh it's probably gonna be hip hop and like
because I think Muslims aregoing to assimilate more towards
black culture, and that's thethat's kind of what I'm getting
at least.
SPEAKER_01 (27:46):
Exactly, you're exactly right.
That is exactly right, becausethey're not white, okay?
And so I have a my my white myoldest son lives in Dearborn,
and they pick up the nextgeneration, picks up everything
bad about America, yeah, whichis like fast cars, okay.
Fast cars doing 100 miles anhour in Dearborn the wrong way
(28:09):
down a one-way street.
This is this is now Yemeniculture in in uh in uh Dearborn.
And the guy who did that he justdied, you know, killed himself
and uh three other uh Muslims,probably Yemenis, by hitting a
tree at 100 miles an hour.
SPEAKER_04 (28:27):
Yeah, I I work with a Muslim guy who I have some
really good conversations with.
Um, and the most the one thingwe can always bond on is how the
Jews are behind everything.
So we live in New York, and he'slike, he's like, I he's like,
Well, my Muslim friends are allexcited about Mam Dani.
They don't know the Jews ownhim.
He's you got a sewage mayor.
(28:48):
We don't have a Muslim mayor,you know, because he's he's
telling me, he's like, look, youyou, you know, I he's he's from
uh Turkey, he's Turkish, andhe's like, uh, you know, you
know, you think you have a um aMuslim government there, but in
reality, they're taking moneyfrom from Israel too, and
they're kind of like, and yousaw that with uh with us with
(29:08):
Assyria when they take out Assadand they put their own guy in
now.
Because when it comes down toit, a lot of a lot of people,
even in Muslim nations, areblackmailable and people want
money or they're bribable andthings like that.
So it does seem like there'sthis I don't know.
It it is funny that that's theone thing we can we can we can
do.
SPEAKER_01 (29:28):
I think it's true.
I said we should have analliance, a Catholic Muslim
alliance, because we have acommon enemy.
Is that bad?
SPEAKER_04 (29:35):
Is it bad to say that?
I I mean it's the one thing wewe really do seem to bond on at
work.
SPEAKER_01 (29:41):
So it's you better believe it.
And I'm saying, you know, therethe Muslims are shocked when I
say that, but I mean, you know,I think that the Mamba Mund
Mamdami election was a watershedin American life.
This is a man who campaigned asa Muslim.
All the Jews, the ADL wascalling out all their troops to
(30:02):
make sure he didn't get elected.
He beat them.
Yeah, he beat them in New YorkCity.
Can you imagine that?
Beating the Jews in New YorkCity?
And he did it.
So I'm saying this is thebeginning, a harbinger of this
new era, a harbinger of theFourth Republic, the emergence
of a Muslim uh Americanidentity.
So in his acceptance piece, thefirst thing he talked about,
(30:24):
man, he mentions was EugeneDebs, the socialist.
So here he is.
This this man really didsomething very significant.
I mean, if you were talkingabout the logical progression
from the Biden administration tothe next Democratic
administration, this guy shouldhave had a bone through his nose
and purple hair and a beard anda dress, because that's what
(30:48):
politics was.
It was all gender politics atthe Democratic Party.
And he single-handedly turned itaround, turned the Democratic
Party back to its roots as therepresentative of the working
man.
That was a stroke of genius onMamdani's part.
And God bless him for doing it.
SPEAKER_04 (31:05):
Yeah.
Um, okay, so okay, so now youthe oh go ahead, Rob.
SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
I was gonna say, did do you think it's possible to
actually like make an alliancewith with a group that has a
doctrine like Takia, where theywhere you know it it allows them
to lie, you know, morally intheir eyes?
SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
Did Mamdami get elected or not?
This is proof that it'spossible.
This is proof that it'spossible.
SPEAKER_04 (31:32):
Yeah, it's it's a rough one, man.
I don't know because like likepart of me thinks like a lot of
the hostility between Catholicsand Muslims is caused by the
Jews, but at the same time, yougotta think back to the
Crusades, and and we kind of aremortal enemies with one another,
too.
SPEAKER_01 (31:48):
Well, look, I I just did an article, so it's the
immediate thing, which isDearborn, I covered that, and
the the feds who are trying tofoment violence there.
But the deep grammar here ofthis is Tolkien, the Lord of the
Rings.
Do you remember the Lord?
Have you read The Lord of theRings?
The culmination, the grandbattle is Minus Tirith.
(32:10):
Yep.
Minus Tirith is Vienna, 1683.
Orcs are Turks.
These are these people from theEast.
It's kind of like the orc is acombination of the Turk in 1683
and the Soviet army in 1945.
They're bad people coming fromthe east, and they're going to
take take us over.
Okay.
(32:30):
Okay, I loved, I love that idea.
I love the story of Vienna andJan Zobieski and the cavalry
sweeping down from the Viennawoods and saving Vienna.
Uh, it's a great story.
When I did a book tour in Polandfor Libido Dominandi, the Polish
edition, and every every speechI gave all over Poland, I said,
(32:52):
the West has failed.
And everybody gets a littledown.
And I said, but that's not theend of the story.
The end of the story came whenJan Zobieski saved Vienna, and
all the Poles would jump up andcheer.
They like that story.
Okay, but it's not 1683 anymore.
And do you know why the Polishcavalry is not going to save us
(33:12):
anymore?
Because the because the you'reright.
I mean, so let's say the modernday equivalent, some type of
dramatic external change.
The main reason is the Turks,the orcs are inside the city
now.
Yeah.
The cavalry charge only worksbecause there was some brave
(33:32):
Austrian who stood there with apike when the Perks blew a hole
in the wall and basicallyprevented those types, prevented
the orcs from coming into thecity.
He stood in the breach, and andthat allowed the Polish cavalry
to extur to solve that problemfrom the outside.
That's over now.
(33:53):
Why is it over?
Why is Ireland in such a badsituation now?
My friend Gemma is likeDenethor.
She's saying the West hasfailed.
She's ready to throw herself onthe funeral pyre.
Because the Irish stopped havingchildren.
The Germans stopped havingchildren.
The Italians stopped havingchildren.
And not only did they stophaving children, they killed a
(34:15):
lot of their own children.
And so I said to Gemma, forevery Irish baby that you people
aborted, God sent a Muslim andan African to take their place
because nature abhors a vacuum.
So put down your Molotovcocktail, Gemma, and start
thinking along spiritual lines.
SPEAKER_04 (34:36):
Well, that's kind of what I want to get into here
because yes, the the orcs areinside the gates at this point,
right?
Now you're absolutely right.
You're absolutely right.
Now, what what you just said isactually kind of how I see it.
I see it as we because theydidn't fight their way in, we
welcomed them in.
SPEAKER_01 (34:55):
Now, how now nature abhorse a vaccine?
They the I they killed their ownchildren.
Do you think God didn't noticewhen that happened?
SPEAKER_04 (35:04):
Not just that, but don't don't you see instead like
because you're talking about analliance, but don't you kind of
see this as like the Assyrianscoming in to destroy the temple
at this point?
Like, do you do you not see likeGod's judgment coming upon us?
SPEAKER_01 (35:17):
I think I tell them God Islam is the scourge of God.
That's always what it'd been.
Whenever the Christians wouldlose or fight each other, the
Turks would move up the Danube.
Okay, they're inside the wallnow.
Yeah.
What are we gonna do?
And I'm saying, I in this, I seewhat Hegel would call the
(35:40):
cunning of reason.
Okay, who did this to us?
It was basically the Jews, theHebrew Immigrant Aid Society.
Alejandro Majorcus used to bethe head of it.
He let the board open theborder, anybody, millions of
people crossed the borderbecause that was his plan.
The Jews want to wreck thedominant culture of the United
States and every Europeancountry.
(36:01):
Yeah, that's not the end of thestory.
What's the cunning of reason?
God brings about his plan byallowing the wicked to do evil
and then turning it into good.
So what's the story here?
Let's take England, for example.
The degenerate culture inEngland now, 48% of all
(36:23):
pregnancies get uh end anabortion in England.
You got these sluts with theirtattoos, you got the soccer
hooligans, they're all followingTommy Robinson, uh, who wants to
blow up the uh the buses withthe immigrants on them.
Those people are moreconservative when it comes to
sexual morality than the nativesare.
(36:45):
And that's the cunning ofreason, and that's the basis for
what we are doing now inEngland.
We're working with the Muslims.
My good friend Sean Norton, theIrishman living in London, is
having a lot of success talkingto the Muslims, supporting Dr.
Rehiani Ali, who was banned,kicked out of the medical uh
(37:07):
national health service becauseshe defended Palestinians in an
op-ed piece.
That's wrong.
And I'm saying we have acommonality here, not just a
common enemy, but a commonalityin our understanding of the
moral law.
If we can make this clear, Ithink we have the possibility to
(37:28):
turn the evil, which is thisweaponized migration, it's an
evil, I'm not gonna deny that,turn it into a good in an
unexpected way.
SPEAKER_04 (37:36):
Yeah, that's an interesting uh okay.
So, okay, so let's get let's getback to some of your work again.
Um, so what makes you startwriting the Jewish revolutionary
spirit?
SPEAKER_01 (37:50):
The war in Iraq.
SPEAKER_04 (37:53):
So it was what I was doing.
SPEAKER_01 (37:55):
2003, 2003, uh the Jews, they're called
neoconservatives at this point.
They take over our foreignpolicy and they uh uh engage
American American treasure andlives in a project that only is
supposed it benefits Israel.
It's supposed to benefit Israel,had no benefit whatsoever for
(38:16):
the United States of America.
At that point, the scales fellfrom my eyes, and I realized we
got a Jewish problem.
They have just taken over ourforeign policy.
There's no way to get around it.
SPEAKER_04 (38:26):
And now you must have been like a lone voice
crying.
You better believe it.
SPEAKER_01 (38:31):
You better believe it.
You better believe how lonely itwas back then.
SPEAKER_04 (38:36):
I can't imagine.
SPEAKER_01 (38:37):
I was excommunicated from the conservative movement
because I I uh went to the SamFrancis Memorial at the National
Press Club, and I said uh gavehim the thesis of the Jewish
revolutionary spirit, and thepeople ran screaming from the
room.
Taki was there.
It was like the the paleoconaristocracy, Taki's there.
(38:59):
We're all gonna be, we're allgonna be arrested.
Stop, stop, you know, and thatwas that was the moment.
The moment was I was ahead of mytime.
Yeah, I was ahead of that.
That was 2008.
Now it's not lonely anymore.
There are plenty of I'll I'llI'll I'll make a statement.
If you're if you want have anycredibility with the the the
(39:24):
younger generation, the20-year-olds, you have to
address the Jewish question.
And the man who did it was NickFuentes.
That's why he's got thisfollowing.
SPEAKER_04 (39:33):
Well, it's not just that, it but like I I think what
you were doing back then,because I remember you being
ostracized, but you weren't justostracized from conservative
politics, it was the church, thelike the the the mainstream
church, like you were personanon grata.
You're right, and you you werenot allowed, like they they they
shunned you, you know.
And I remember seeing you kindof reappear during the no fat
(39:57):
movement.
Like, I I remember you beinginvolved, so like talking about.
These were secular guys whodecided to like stop looking at
pornography for the month ofNovember.
And I remember you popping up inthose conversations back then.
SPEAKER_01 (40:09):
Right.
Right.
You're absolutely right.
So I was ahead of my time withanother book that was called
Libido Dominandi, SexualLiberation and Political
Control.
I wrote that book came out in2003.
I was so ahead of my time thatthe most significant thing to
ratify that thesis happened oneyear after the book came out.
And that was when the Israelitroops went into Ramallah.
(40:32):
They took over the TV stationsand they started broadcasting
pornography over the TVstations.
That was proof that sexualliberation was a form of
political control.
Or else you have to say that theIsraelis want to bring freedom
to the Palestinians becausepornography is freedom if you're
an American.
So that was and it's so I had toconvince people and they say,
(40:55):
nah, that you're crazy, it'scrazy.
And then suddenly there came atime when an entire generation
is addicted to pornographybecause of their cell phones.
SPEAKER_03 (41:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:04):
And they know they are a slave to their passions.
And when I say uh sexualiseration is a form of control,
they understand immediately whatI'm talking about.
When I say that a man has asmany masters as he has vices,
which is what St.
Augustine said, they knowimmediately, and sometimes they
stop watching pornography likethat, just because of that.
(41:25):
Just because the the scales fallfrom out.
Yeah, it's a form of control.
I understand why I'm somiserable now.
I'm not going to do thisanymore.
SPEAKER_04 (41:33):
Yeah, I mean, Augustine says it, right?
Like you're only as free as youare free from your vices.
I mean, it's that's right.
It's like if if if if somethinghas a grip on you like that,
it's it's it is absolutely aform of control.
So yeah, and I so I rememberseeing you popping up in those
in those conversations, and thenI came across Logos Rising.
(41:54):
Now, Logos Rising, the openingchapters, you you kind of broke
this this um, I don't know, justmy my my whole thinking about
evolution and just howridiculous some of the stuff
they say about evolution is whenyou're even when you're breaking
down how an eye forms you'relike they're saying it's a cell
that can receive light, butthat's not sight.
(42:16):
Like, like how can nature choosea gene that doesn't exist if
you're talking about you knowsurvival of the fitness?
SPEAKER_01 (42:23):
It's like that's exactly right.
How can have that selectionprocess for something that
doesn't exist?
That's impossible, and thatcomes down it comes down to it's
biased in Logos Rising.
Parmenides said that which iscannot come from that which is
not.
That is absolutely true, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (42:41):
Yeah, and you and you go through I I gave three
copies of that book away becauseI I was just the way you went
through just explaining all oflike human civilization, how it
comes about, and then when youget to the Greeks, you you
explain how the uh like theGreek philosophers are all
they're they're wrestling withthis idea of logos because they
(43:03):
know there's some kind of likerationality to the universe, and
then Paul goes and tries topreach at the Areop uh Area,
what is it, the Areopagus?
Or yes, the Areopagus.
Yeah, he goes to preach there,and then and he talks about the
unknown god, and they kind oflaugh him out of there, but
like, but that Saint John likereally took that and and he and
(43:24):
he he understood the Greek mindin a in an amazing way, and he
was able to bring that bringthat home with the in the
beginning was the logo.
SPEAKER_01 (43:32):
He understood that the world was changing, okay.
That when as soon as St.
Paul said that dream about thatGreek kid saying, Come over
here, the world was going tochange, and you couldn't just
limit it to these Hebrews.
Uh, and then so as a result, youcan't hand them the gospel of
Saint Matthew, which is thislong Hebrew genealogy with names
they never heard before.
(43:53):
And so I say I speculate thatSt.
John wrote his gospel in lightof St.
Paul's failure at the Areopagus,and an understanding now we've
got to have a new approach tothis new group of people, and
this approach is going to be inGreek.
We're going to write this gospelin Greek, and we're going to
begin with the most fundamentalGreek term, which is logos,
(44:17):
rationality.
That's seven pages of Englishequivalents in the little El
Hart uh uh Scott Liddell uhGreek English dictionary.
Okay, and he begins by saying,in the beginning, there was the
word.
See, the problem is he can't useEnglish.
SPEAKER_03 (44:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:34):
In the beginning, there was a word, imprincipio
erod verbum, am Anfang VadasWord.
They're all the same, and noneof them has the resonance that
the word Logos had.
So I had to change it, I had toresurrect the word Logos, bring
it back, and say, in thebeginning, there was Logos.
In other words, there was anorder to the universe that was
(44:54):
inescapable.
There was never chaos.
There was always an order to theuniverse.
And Logos was with God, andLogos is God.
Now, that is one of the mostprofound statements in all of
human history.
Logos is God.
And I tried to talk that waybecause I the I wrote Logos
Rising based on my experience ofgoing with Iran, to Iran.
(45:18):
One of the great experiences ofmy life, thanks to my late
friend Nader Talabzada, who wasa genius who bring at bringing
people together.
So they brought brought me overthere, and I'm thinking we now
can talk to people in Iran.
We can talk to people all overthe world.
We have the language, you havethe technology.
What are we going to talk about?
(45:38):
You know, I'll buy three, howmuch they cost?
Maybe something moresophisticated.
Or let's put it this way (45:44):
is there a basis for some type of
universal consensus among all ofmankind right now?
And if there is, I'm saying theonly thing that fills that
requirement is the term logos.
Because we are all rationalcreatures, and rationality is
(46:05):
not uh optional.
SPEAKER_04 (46:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (46:10):
We have to be rational.
SPEAKER_04 (46:12):
You you think back to like uh when when 9-11
happens and we go into Iraq andwe do all this stuff, and it's
like George Bush is like, we'regonna bring democracy to these
people.
And you're like, what?
You're gonna bring democracy tothese people?
Like, we could you imagine if wewould have brought the gospel to
these people?
It would have been just such abut you how do you bring the
(46:34):
gospel?
SPEAKER_01 (46:34):
Let's talk.
I want to talk to these people,and God bless them.
The Iranians were great people.
They I could talk to them.
I was I was the first time I'mthere, I'm one of like three
million people were celebratingthe revel 1979 revolution.
I'm surrounded by women andcharters.
And they start saying, AloAkbar, and I understand.
(46:57):
They start saying somethinglike, uh, I don't understand it.
So I turned to my translator, Isaid, What are they saying?
He said, Death to America.
SPEAKER_03 (47:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (47:05):
They have are geniuses when it comes to uh
separating the regime from thepeople.
They understood that perfectly,and we could talk one person to
another.
That was the great thing aboutgoing to Iran.
SPEAKER_04 (47:21):
Oh, so they didn't they didn't just see an American
and think you're death likedeath to you.
They would talk to you and theysaw the American machine as
something totally different.
SPEAKER_01 (47:31):
Well, you know, that's a government.
I I didn't, I didn't, I wasn'tin favor of the war invading
Iraq.
We we are captives to agovernment that doesn't
represent our interests.
The fundamental issue throughoutthe world right now is
representative democracy.
We don't have it.
Yeah, every system is basicallyyou take money from the rich
(47:52):
folk, but you have to pander tothe people, you get the votes
from the people, and as soon asyou come into office, you do
what the rich folk want.
SPEAKER_05 (48:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (48:02):
I voted for Donald Trump, but that's what he did.
SPEAKER_04 (48:05):
Yeah, okay.
So look, we uh I I want I wantto promote your new book here
now, and then I want to talk theJewish revolutionary spirit, and
I want to talk the Holocaustnarrative on uh behind the
paywall.
And we will release it onYouTube, but you guys gotta come
and you gotta put because Idon't know where we're gonna go
with it.
But uh what your new book thatyou just came out with is called
Um Walking with a Bible and aGun.
(48:27):
What what what got you to evenstart this one?
SPEAKER_01 (48:32):
Uh I had a guy write to me and said uh he he he he
could trace his ancestors backto 1680 something, you know.
So he said, then I became aCatholic.
So now I know what it means tobe a Catholic, but I don't know
what it means to be an Americananymore.
And I had the sense, like afterthe identity politics of the
(48:53):
Democratic Party, where you, inorder to be an American, you had
to be uh, you know, a homosexualor a Negro or part of feminist,
something like that.
These are all identity, identitypolitics, identity groups.
Is there an overarchingprinciple that unites us as
Americans?
And if so, what is it?
That was basically the premise.
(49:15):
And I'm I'm right with this isin mind as Trump uh arrives on
the scene with a slogan calledMake America Great Again.
What does that mean?
Is so he obviously invoked sometype of American identity.
He invoked America first, whichI agree with uh in the first
election.
I uh he appeared in South Bend,Indiana, biggest crowd ever to
(49:37):
assemble in South Bend, Indiana,and he was there, and he talked
about uh carrier airconditioning, moving his plant
to Mexico, and everybody there,the working class there, and
they jumped up and cheered.
So, what does it mean?
So, this is why I wrote thebook.
In other words, also uh I read abook by a uh a Frenchman by the
name of Immanuel Tot.
(49:57):
The book is called La Defaite del'Occident.
Uh hasn't been translated inEnglish yet, but uh he said
basically the American Empire isdisappearing, is going to fall,
because the hidden grammar ofthe American Empire is
Protestantism, and Protestantismis evaporating.
Yeah.
(50:18):
And I said, that's true.
He he understands what he'sdoing.
This is a long line of Frenchmenlike De Tolcville, people like
that who come over and try andinterpret try to understand what
America is.
But then he he chose in to say,well, what's Protestantism?
And he goes down the rat rabbithole known as Max Weber, which
is a waste of time.
And I said, if you want tounderstand the mind of
(50:40):
English-speaking people, youhave to understand poetry and
literature.
And if you want to understandthe mind of America, the
American founders, all the wayup to the present, you have to
read a certain poem.
And that poem is called ParadiseLost by John Milton.
And if you want to understandthat poem, you have to read the
beginning of it, where Satanwakes up in hell and he gives a
(51:03):
speech that is one of thegreatest speeches in American
literature, you know, and itends the speech by saying,
better to reign in hell than toserve in heaven.
Well, you know, your Americanheart starts beating faster when
you hear that, you know.
That's that's who we are.
We're all Satanist.
SPEAKER_03 (51:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (51:22):
The Halo grammar of America is Satanism.
SPEAKER_04 (51:26):
Yeah, that's a that's a that's a it sounds like
a harsh thing you're saying, butthe whole founding of our
country is built on revolution,right?
So, like if you if youunderstand what um what a
culture actually is, it has todo with like the altar you
worship at, but also taking onthe patrimony that was given to
you from your forefathers andstuff like that.
(51:47):
And our country is founded onthis revolt from their
forefathers.
So revolution is kind of likebaked into the the story of who
we are, and then you have youand you know what?
I I feel like people should gowatch your interview with
Patrick Coffin because you do areally good job of getting into
the book and just and discussingProtestantism and just how this
(52:08):
there because they don't haveconfession, they're just this
this constant like uh uhdebasement that they go through,
and then they have to have arevival.
And it was a really, really welldone interview.
So if you guys want like a afull a full expiation on this,
but I really think I mean thisis the next book I'm buying of
yours that I'm going to read.
I can't wait to get into it, butum, yeah, so you guys can get
(52:28):
that on fidelitypress.org.
SPEAKER_01 (52:31):
Right.
Have to go to fidelitypress.org.
I've been banned from fromAmazon, fidelitypress.org.
The the link should be in thedescription.
SPEAKER_04 (52:39):
So um, you were pretty much like one of the
first to get banned.
Like there was there was a fewyears there where I like we
couldn't even I was afraid toeven have you on the YouTube
show, so I was afraid to ask youto come on.
And uh and and this interview, II kind of had to do a little bit
of the backstory with youbecause I've been watching you
for so long and I've never heardanybody really go through
(53:01):
everything.
And we missed a whole bunch ofbooks, also, but I definitely
the one thing you really changedthe way I see everything is on
the Jewish question, and it mademe start thinking deeper about
this stuff, and then I startedthinking about it theologically,
and it's been a topic we've beendiscussing a lot on the show.
So I'd I'd like to do that onthe other side.
So if you guys aren't members,come over to locals.
(53:22):
We will release clips of it onthe main channel.
We don't want to kill thisinterview.
This interview is amazing, but Ithink I think it's gonna be
worth coming over there to seethe rest of it.
Uh, is there anything else youwant to uh uh uh promote before
we leave here, Dr.
Jones?
SPEAKER_01 (53:36):
No, that's it.
The Walking with the Bible a gunis the most recent book.
SPEAKER_04 (53:40):
Okay, guys, go check that out.
FidelityPress.org.
Uh, I promise you, if you'venever read a Dr.
E.
Michael Jones book, there's it'snothing like them.
They're they're just filled withthings you wouldn't.
Uh I I I'm one of your uh youryour biggest fans, so I will
never not promote you.
And then and maybe we'll discussthe our difference uh different
approach on the liturgy, also.
I want there's a couple ofthings I want to talk about over
(54:02):
there.
So all right, take us out.
Yeah, he's just gonna kill thefeeds to everything.
Yeah, uh the liturgy one, you uhit I because I know you're
you're like we really I've I'vegrown to love the traditional
liturgy, right?
(54:23):
And um I know uh
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