August 19, 2025 • 69 mins
When a Catholic influencer like Voice of Reason falls from grace, what's the appropriate response from the faithful community? Anthony and Christian Wagner dive deep into the recent apology video from Alex Jurado (Voice of Reason) following his scandal, examining both the genuine moments of contrition and the troubling implications about his future plans.
The hosts untangle the complex web of accountability, forgiveness, and prudence that these situations demand. They highlight a concerning pattern in many reactions – the tendency to equate forgiveness with immediate restoration to public ministry. This conversation isn't about condemning Alex but about honestly assessing whether someone who used their Catholic platform to manipulate women should return to a position of influence after just a month of reflection.
Christian brings up the powerful parallel of Michael Voris, who rejected advice to step away from the camera after his own scandal, only to eventually relapse and lose everything. This cautionary tale demonstrates why true charity sometimes requires maintaining firm boundaries rather than enabling potentially harmful patterns. As Christian pointedly notes, "Supporting your friend means dragging them to heaven, not cheering them on as they sprint towards hell."
The most enlightening moments come when the hosts discuss alternative paths forward – ways Alex could contribute to the Church without returning to the spotlight. Perhaps working behind the scenes, using his talents for writing or production, or even eventually helping others with similar struggles could provide meaningful service without the dangers of public ministry.
What makes this episode particularly valuable is the balance the hosts strike between mercy and justice, between compassion for a fallen brother and protection of the vulnerable. If you've ever struggled with how Catholics should respond to scandals within our own ranks, this thoughtful discussion offers a framework that honors both our call to forgiveness and our responsibility to uphold truth.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
The CDF Show.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I think you're muted.
My computer is going.
Oh no, you're cutting out.
Oh no, my computer is likeglitching on me right now.
Yeah, this is what happens.
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
This is what happens when you don't have Rob.
You tried.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Oh no, wait, Wait, we have to Wait.
Let me just make sure, wait,hang on.
I got everything plugged in,all right, am I still glitching
on you?
You sound fine, now.
Oh, this is bad.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Wait, am I not late?
Yeah, but there's still a delay, right?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
no, I can hear you.
There's a delay, oh yeah, butthere's a delay between us.
This is not good.
Hang on.
It's so over.
Uh, I might have to.
I might have to restart mycomputer.
Dude, I might have to.
This is not good.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
It's so over.
I might have to just cook for10 minutes.
I'm not restarting this stream.
I might have to restart thestream.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Do it for two.
I'm going to no, no, no, don'trestart.
Restart your computer, cook fortwo minutes.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I'm going to fix this .
I'll just sit here and cook.
I.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Restart your computer , cook for two minutes.
I'm going to fix this.
I'll just sit here and cook,I'll just entertain.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So everybody from Anthony's side come here.
I'm just going to have some funfor the next two or three
minutes.
Hey, hey, hey, start thisComputer.
Yeah, well, that's what happenswhen your computer's broken.
You know, everyone leaves youand goes to my live stream.
So how's it going?
Everybody, all of myillustrious so he's disappeared.
(02:06):
Now, really, Wow, this is kindof strange.
All of my illustrious YouTubefollowers, youtube supporters.
I want to remind everybody.
Okay, just as a little reminder, I'm not going to say anything,
obviously, about the wholevoice of reason situation until
anthony comes back, becausewe're supposed to discuss that I
(02:27):
don't want to sneak anythingbehind, uh, while he's gone,
although that would be reallyfunny if I did do that and try
to go behind his back.
But it's a reminder to pleaseremember to follow my new shorts
account.
I have now been only postingall of my shorts on specifically
(02:48):
scholastic shorts Okay,scholastic shorts.
So follow that on YouTube.
I've been trying to get that toa thousand followers, so please
remember to go and subscribe toscholastic shorts on YouTube.
Also, subscribe to or follow Idon't know how this works on
Instagram.
Follow on Instagram, walmartThomas.
(03:11):
We're trying to grow ouraccounts in the Instagram sphere
.
And then, for my Shorts account, there was something weird that
happened with my Shorts account.
So I hope that you guys do that, because if you don't, you're
kind of, you're not part of theteam.
Okay, you're also very cringe.
Senior Wagner, you are a helpfulfellow.
Thanks, sir.
You're welcome.
Long-time watcher, first-timechatter.
(03:33):
Thank you, clark.
The late award goes toChristian Wagner.
That's Christian B Wagner DO,but Anthony, he is functioning.
You know, anthony, the thingabout Anthony, I really like
Anthony, he's sort of a boomer.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
He's sort of a boomer .
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I hate you, I hate you, I'm watching you on the
live stream.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
All right, are we?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
good, yes, but everybody on Anthony's side now
remember to subscribe toScholastic Shorts on YouTube, so
wait a minute.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I do have a taffy intro.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I don't know what the hell happened there if the
taffy intro is bad guys, I donot take responsibility for it.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
I do not take responsibility let me uh, I
gotta pull all my stuff up again, because I've restarted my
computer here yes, somebodyasked for the scholastic shorts.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
If you go to my posts page on my youtube account, I
think that's my last post is thescholastic shorts link on my
YouTube account.
I think that's my last post isthe Scholastic Shorts link on my
posts.
Okay, yes, let's see.
So I will post it in chat forall of you.
Fine young men.
So you're still trying tofigure out how to do this whole
(04:39):
intro thing that Taffy made.
I got it, I got it.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Hang on, here we go Ready.
Hang on here, we hang on, herewe go ready.
Hang on, here we go.
Here we go hang on ready.
Hey, hey, uh, I got it guys, Ipromise, here we go ready.
You're sharing the screen.
Yeah, I'm not.
I'm trying to figure out whothe Mr Miyagi face is.
(05:14):
Tell me if you can figure itout.
Taffy always gets usdemonetized with the music.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Oh, he's going to get me demonetized.
It's so over.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
I don't know.
You think that music will getus?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
This is from.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Who's?
Speaker 3 (05:34):
that.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I have no idea.
Look at my eyes.
Wait, did you?
Speaker 3 (05:43):
see, I have no idea.
Look at my eye.
He needs to.
He needs to, uh, axon.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Axon Axon.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Oh, it's Boris Axon, axon.
Come back tomorrow, michaelBoris oh, that was Boris, oh no.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Taffy, taffy.
Okay, I did not takeresponsibility for this no, I
didn't even pre-watch it waitthat was Michael Warris.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yes, I guess, so All right.
So now that everybody'ssubscribed to Christian's new
shorts channel, we want to makesure we do that, so all right.
Now I wanted to ask you,because what was your initial
thought when you watched hisvideo this morning?
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I actually watched it last night.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Voice of, because everybody got mad last time.
We didn't like tell them whatwe were talking about.
We're talking about Alex Haradofrom Voice of Reason.
He put out an apology videolast night.
I didn't see it until thismorning.
What was your original thoughtwhen you saw it?
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Well, there were some parts in there actually that,
upon a first listen and withouta reflection, they're actually
very touching.
Some of the parts when you werelistening to what he was saying
, the tone, the manner ofspeaking, it was actually very
touching a lot of what he saidand it resonates with a lot of
people.
So that was like firstimpressions, like right off the
(07:33):
bat I was listening to it.
I was like, wow, this is very,you know, heavy, very
emotionally charged, like Ireally do feel a lot of what
he's saying.
Like I really do feel a lot ofwhat he's saying.
Like that's first response.
Right, there is definitely, itwas in that sphere.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Like.
That's what my thoughts wereinitially.
So even the first run through,like the whole beginning of the
video, I thought was great.
I was like, okay, this is okay.
Whole beginning of the video, Ithought was great.
I was like, okay, this, this isokay.
But then I cut, I took, I cut uptwo clips that I thought were a
little troublesome, um, andright away when I heard them I
(08:15):
was like, oh, this don't soundright and I I was withholding
from even speaking on it.
And then I saw christian marioput out a video and his
reasoning for putting it out waseverybody was kind of just like
praising alex for coming outand saying it.
And I had this same exactfeeling that christian mario had
(08:36):
in his video and his point wasI'm seeing all these catholics
like glazing alex right now andnobody's actually seeing through
what the what the problem ishere and what it seemed like to
me from from the first runthrough, without even reflecting
on it.
It felt like him testing outthe waters to see if he dips his
(08:56):
toes back in, what the reactionwould be, and that's just kind
of how I my first initialthought on it.
And then there's another,another segment that I found
pretty problematic when hestarts talking about his, his
priest and spiritual father.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
So I think what's important for a lot of people to
recognize is um, it's very easyfor us to lose our souls over a
situation like this.
When we're talking aboutsomebody else and the uh, the,
the possible on the one hand Imean, think about how high the
stakes are for being rash aboutthis On the one hand, you could
(09:31):
be defaming somebody who has anintense work of grace in their
soul, of conversion towards God,a sort of experience that truly
makes people saints.
But on the other hand, youcould be, uh, praising and
running covers for somebodywho's being deceptive, uh, about
this and what I, what I uh andI'm not accusing him of that, of
(09:51):
course um, but I think what weneed to remember is that alex,
his background and that's why Isaid the initial, the initial
sort of emotional response, butonce I sort of reflected on this
a little bit more, you have toremember alex's he's a
professional actor, that's hisjob.
He's a trained actor, tv show,he's a public speaker.
He has professionals workingwith him to produce this
(10:16):
statement, to record thisstatement.
This was somethingprofessionally done by somebody
who is an actor, who had hidthis from people for about a
decade Everybody in his life,even his most close friends.
So that does not mean okay.
So this is what I want toclarify this does not mean that
(10:36):
he's lying to us.
All of those things could betotally not connected with the
truth or falsity of thestatement, right?
Totally not connected with thetruth or falsity of the
statement, right?
So all of those things could betrue and it could also be true
that he's completely beinggenuine with us and really we
don't know, and that's kind ofthe point that I'm going to
bring forward.
But on the other hand, it'salso completely possible, with
(10:58):
all of those factors in mind,that this is something which is
not genuine, it's somethingwhich is a kind of a farce.
And really, what I want toemphasize is the fact that those
two distinct possibilities areon the table and it's something
that we're not going to knowwhich one of those possibilities
are true, perhaps ever, or it'sgoing to at least take a while
(11:22):
of discerning of his futureactions.
So I want I want to everybodysure, rejoice, Be glad that he
has admitted his faults.
That's awesome, that's good.
I think that's a, it's apositive thing but also be be as
innocent as as doves and aswise as serpents.
(11:42):
You know, have that wisdom anddiscernment to be careful not to
just jump right in and say,hallelujah, a month has passed,
he's completely, he's awesome.
Now let's get him back on thetour.
I think that there needs to becaution, there needs to be
charity, there needs to beclarity, there needs to be all
of those things.
The difficult sort of likeantinomies of Christian
(12:06):
perfection is able to holdtogether what seems to be very
opposed virtues, but we have totry our hardest with it.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Look, I'm also going to say I have genuine empathy
for him in that this kid for Imean I'm calling him a kid he's
30 years old but for the pastdecade his career path has been
public apologist, so he's been,you know, this is.
I mean at 30 years old hefinally figured out what he was
(12:36):
going to do with his life and itturns out he blew his.
It would be like going tocollege for for a PhD and then
finding out your your wholecareer path is just blown up in
smoke.
I mean I have genuine empathyfor him in that aspect that,
yeah, man, like some things wedo completely alienate us from
(12:57):
what we thought we were going tobe able to do.
I do think the fact that he wasusing his platform and his
position too many times doesdisqualify him from being a
public representative of thefaith.
I just do.
And that's not to say that allof us don't have sins.
(13:18):
All of us do have sins.
I mean, I've had arguments withmy wife that I would be
mortified if anybody ever saw avideo of you, know things like
that.
Arguments with my wife that Iwould be mortified if anybody
ever saw a video of you, knowthings like that.
But I do think that there'scertain things that kind of
disqualify you from being apublic representative of the
faith.
And this, this video just cameoff to me as man.
(13:40):
I don't want, I don't want totry to read the guy's heart, I
really don't, but it did have anelement of testing the waters
out to see how people wouldreact to him, implying he might
come back.
I mean, I'll play the two clipsthat I had that I found the
most problematic and I'll see ifthey're the same ones that you
thought.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yeah, I mean, I think that we need to distinguish an
objective question and asubjective question and we need
to be very clear about this.
Objectively, I think there'sroom for debate.
You know, if you have somebodywho falls into this sort of sin
in public ministry, you know, isthere a timeline for them
coming back?
Like that is, I think, a goodfaith question that Catholics
(14:19):
can have with one another,either harsher, a little bit
more laxer stances.
I think that's a totally goodquestion that we can have.
Then there's the subjectivequestion of when we can see that
a timeline is so quick to beevident of some sort of bad
dispositions.
So if he's coming back in,let's say, two months, I think
(14:40):
everybody kind of recognizesthat that's not, that's not good
and that's not sort of like agood faith, uh sort of
difference, uh sort of agree todisagree type situation if
somebody's coming back soquickly.
Um, so if you know if he'scoming back in five years, you
know it's yeah, that's great, wejust agree.
You know he thinks that it'sfine to do that.
I don't think it's fine.
Um, we just disagree and I donot doubt that he could be in
(15:04):
good faith and hold thatposition like two, three months,
you know, quick, uh sort ofentrance back into the sphere.
You know, I I don't think thatit's acceptable.
Um, I think that's a definitelysign of, of a of a lack of
understanding of, uh, howdamaging this sort of behavior
is to somebody in the publicsphere.
Uh, so I I think we need tokeep that clear.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Bobby, I'm going to get to your comment, but it's so
similar to my thoughts that Iwant to wait until I play the
video clip.
So Bobby had a good comment,but I want to play the video.
Let's do that.
Let's, actually I want to play.
I have two clips.
I want to play the first one.
Let me just get it ready here.
You guys know me, I'm not Rob,so all right, let's play this
(15:51):
first one.
Let me see what your thoughtsare on this part.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And I need everybody to know that my producer.
He had no idea about what wasgoing on.
He didn't know about any ofthis.
He didn't know my parish priest, he did not know my bishop, he
did not know the people who wereclosest to me.
(16:21):
They did not know anythingbecause I was keeping my sins in
the dark.
But, like I said, like the Lordtells us, all things will be
brought to the light.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
So my issue here, when he's saying that his parish
priest didn't know, saying thathis parish priest didn't know,
is that because he also mentionsthat his parish priest had told
him he should go to counselingback in november and he didn't
listen.
And now he's saying his parishpriest didn't know.
So does does that mean he'sbeen presenting himself for
(17:03):
communion for a decade withthese kinds of things going on,
living in mortal sin like I?
I don't know, that's just,that's a big one for me that his
priest didn't know.
And now, if you, your priest,advised counseling back in
november, has he advised you notto come present yourself
publicly now?
(17:24):
I don't, I don't know it, justit seems like a bad reflection
upon the priest at this point byhim bringing this up.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, I mean it definitely leads you to wonder,
but I mean there's manydifferent circumstances that
could explain this.
So I want to be careful aboutdrawing any sort of definite
conclusion, because I know for alot of people they don't like
going to confession.
It seems like he obviously andhe admits this he had an
accountability problem.
(17:55):
So if he was going toconfession, probably part of the
accountability problem is youdon't want to go to a priest who
recognizes you when you go andconfess.
So I mean it could be that, butreally it would be speculative
on my part and there's otherways of explaining it that
aren't insidious.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Yeah, yeah, he could be power shopping for that.
Yeah, listen, this isn't aboutjudging Alex's heart here or
anything.
This is just about it.
When, when something like thishappens, like to, to, to come
out with an apology after amonth is appropriate, Yep, that
(18:39):
is appropriate.
To come out and apologize andpublicly admit.
You know that, because I reallydidn't, I don't, I don't think
I, I, I don't think I everthought he really did something
with a minor.
My issue was more seeing themanipulation of women by using
the Catholic faith.
Like he used the Catholic faith, he used some of Christopher
West's theology of the bodylanguage to beg these girls
(19:03):
right.
Like he used a lot of thattheology of the body stuff and
that kind of really like, likedidn't sit well with me, but the
main issue I had was with thisone here.
Hang on, Let me see.
(19:35):
Sorry guys, this was the partthat I found difficult.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
And that's what I want everyone else, my audience,
even if you feel like you can'tsupport me anymore, if you feel
like you have to walk away, Iunderstand, I totally get it.
But I just want everyone to atleast know that, no matter how
(20:08):
deep we are in our sin, nomatter how deep we are in our
sin, no matter how broken we are, no matter how fallen we are,
no matter the extent of ourmisery, god can use those things
to bring something good out ofthem.
God can turn those things intosomething that gives glory to
(20:32):
him, and all that I can do nowis offer the situation to God
and ask him to take this, putthe situation at the foot of the
cross, ask for his mercy.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Yeah, it was really just him saying I understand
that those of you can't supportme anymore.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah, I don't know what that was supposed to mean.
When I listened to that like asecond time, I definitely felt
that was problematic, becausethere's a sort of like what's
the connection between theantecedent and the conclusion?
Right there, the antecedent isI understand you can't support
me, but here's thisconsideration, that is, god can
(21:20):
bring good things even out ofthese bad situations.
So, yeah, I do think clearlythe implication is an intention
or desire to come back, butwe'll have to see what that
looks like.
The timeline, as I mentionedearlier, it could be done in an
appropriate way or it could bedone in an inappropriate way,
and so really, for now it's kindof speculative.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
I thought his best bet would have been to go into
like a real program to get helpfor these kinds of this kind of
issue and then maybe in a coupleof years come out and help
young men struggling withsimilar issues like that.
That I could have seen beingbecause I do think a lot of
young men do struggle with thiskind of stuff and maybe he could
have.
I looked at it kind of like auh, a person who struggles with
(22:03):
alcoholism and they go to aa andthen next thing you know
they're hosting aa meetings andthey're helping people with the
same addiction.
I thought maybe there couldhave been an avenue for
something like that.
But I think you're correct inthat we have to be very cautious
in just because look, you do.
Of course we want Alex toreturn to the Catholic faith and
(22:24):
of course we want.
We want what's best for hissoul and we want him to be
welcomed back as a brother.
But that doesn't mean we wanthim in the public for his own
good, not even because we wantto rag on him or anything like
that.
Like, for the good of his ownsoul, you don't want this for
him.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah, I also mentioned that there's the
difficulty of scandal, because Isaw a lot of people they were,
you know, the hundreds andhundreds of comments on
Instagram, youtube and Twitterof people basically commenting
the same idea of like, oh, youknow, if we ever demanded
(23:02):
perfection from people who wereto be in public ministry, then
you know, nobody would be ableto do that.
Or like, oh, if you're withoutsin, why, you know, cast the
first stone.
A lot of people are havingthese sort of reactions, not to
say that there is some sort ofpath forward, a difficult path
forward through prayer andpenance, to perhaps be, you know
(23:26):
, to return back to the publicsphere, like that might happen
and we can discuss whetherthat's a good idea and maybe how
long that takes and things likethat.
Those are open for discussion,but it's actually people who
don't even have that in mind.
Rather, the only thing theyhave in mind is to provide some
sort of excuse for the sin andto justify why it isn't that
(23:50):
serious of an issue.
And I think that it would be onething if people were to mention
the first way of there's a waythrough prayer and penance.
The healing of God's grace is soawesome to be able to overcome
all of these things, which seemto be more so the tenor of
actually what Alex himself said.
And then there's the other wayforward of to just minimalize
and to excuse, which a lot ofpeople are doing.
(24:11):
So there's uh, genuinely,people are being um tempted to
view these sorts of sins in avery light way.
Uh, through this possibility ofhim coming back and I think
that's a serious point toconsider is minimizing scandals.
You know, scandal is somethingthat, incidentally, occurs
(24:31):
through a lot of different acts,unfortunately.
But to minimize it is anobligation that he has, and to
have a, a return that even, youknow, has a as a sort of inkling
of being quick, uh does putforward, whether he likes it or
not, and whether it's hisintention or not, it does put
forward this minimalization ofwhat he did, which we see all
(24:52):
throughout the comment sectionsand all of the different.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Well, I think a big part of the problem is a lot of
young guys, and I see this witha lot of young guys.
They're like, they're like well, you know who am I.
We can all fall for the trap oflust and have a weak moment.
That that's not what this was,guys.
This wasn't him getting caughtwith his search history having
some shady stuff on it.
This is much different thanthat.
(25:17):
This is him using his publicplatform and knowledge of the
Catholic faith to manipulatewomen.
This is a very different thingthan having a moment of weakness
and giving into your lust andyou know you have to go to
confession because you looked atsomething wrong.
It's not the same thing.
This is a very serious thingand it it it's not because I
(25:39):
think that's where most of thepeople, especially the young
guys that I see commentingthey're all trying to.
They're trying to look at itfrom a place of oh, I don't want
to judge him because I'll bejudged like that, and that's
understandable.
I get that, but it doesn't meanhe can't be forgiven.
It just means he can't maintainthe same position he had before
(26:01):
.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Yeah, I think this is why I really did appreciate I
don't think we've mentioned ityet I really actually did
appreciate Mario's.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
I have have his video up.
We can go through it after yousay this.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
But yeah, but um, with mario's take.
What I found to be so, uh,refreshing is that I think that
with a lot of these discussions,there is a an aspect of
christian and Christian commonsense, like sanctified common
sense, that's just completelylost in these situations.
(26:34):
To where and this is somethingthat my friend Riveron is really
good with when he's evaluatingthese sorts of situations it's
like, okay, let's just kind oflike cut all of the you know,
the piety signaling.
Let's kind of cut all of the,the piety signaling.
Let's kind of cut all of thesort of antagonism and
(26:55):
favoritism towards differentindividuals and let's just be
kind of honest and realisticwith ourselves in considering
what went on and the type ofeffects this has for the future,
the habits, the vices that arebuilt.
Let's just be real with oneanother.
Let's look at the way thisaffects other people and the way
that they see the world, theway that they see sin.
Let's kind of like view this alittle bit more objectively and
abstractly, rather than thinkingabout this in the terms of this
(27:17):
is the guy I previously reallyliked, or this is the guy I
previously didn't like, or thiswas the guy I had this or that
feeling towards, or this is myown background of the type of
sin that I struggled or strugglewith.
Thinking about this kind ofjust, in a common sense,
objective way is very refreshing, because I was talking with
somebody earlier and I said thatyou really do need to thread
(27:37):
the needle on this topic sofinely because it's so
emotionally charged and peopleit seems like they just kind of
throw away their brains with howthey think about these sorts of
situations because of all ofthe aforementioned effects,
(28:04):
where people see they're youknow an influencer that they
like, that it's like they'lldefend anything they do because
they have this attachment tothat influencer and it's it's
not, it's not good, like we'reall human and any one of us can
make these kinds of mistakes.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
But I'll tell you right now, if I got caught
having an affair on my wife, Iwould disqualify myself from
doing this.
I'm sorry, there's just somethings that you can't I defend
you.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
I'm joking, that was a joke.
That was a joke, guys.
I would not defend Anthony, Iwould not defend him, yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
I think a lot of people felt this way.
I was a little disappointedwhen he seemed to leave a door
open for coming back to publicministry.
I think that lacks discernmentto bring up in an apology.
But that's all.
Like you know, I don't thinkit's wrong that he came out and
admitted to everything.
I'll tell you.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
OK, one comment I will make, and this might be
extremely controversial.
If you will be offended, justcover your ears.
I also would really like I'mvery much looking forward to the
claim about the texting of thegirl.
When he was a catechist hedidn't deny that any of those
texts were.
He didn't say they were fake oranything like that.
(29:27):
I really would like to see theresults of the investigation
just to kind of get aconfirmation there, because you
know I will give the benefit ofthe doubt.
But you know I would like totrust and verify on a lot of
these issues and I think a lotof people have just kind of
taken his word for somethinglike that because he admitted
(29:47):
the other things.
But limited hangout is alwayspossible with these things.
But you know, obviously I'm notmaking an accusation here, I'm
just saying that I would like tosee confirmation.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
And not just that, even if she wasn't underage, he
was her catechist, he was in aposition of authority over her.
I mean, that would that wouldget you a lawsuit at any company
you were working at, oranything like that.
Somebody's asking can you askWagner how many women there's
too many women to follow on thisThree?
And they only could be yourmother, your sister or you know
(30:22):
a family member.
Yeah, I'm trying to keep it alittle light here, but look, we
went through this in theoriginal video, like these
things are very serious, but Idon't like how these young guys
are equating what he did totheir weakness when it comes to
(30:42):
what they look at on theInternet.
There's a difference inseverity.
I understand it's the same.
It's falling for the samespirit.
I guess it's falling for lust,but this is just different.
This guy preyed upon women andpreyed upon them in a way where
he would know what to look forand what kind of woman to look
(31:08):
for, and he knew what to presentand he would.
He had, he had a, he had a gamethat he laid out and he did it
repeatedly, over and over, andhe was successful.
And he, he crafted this overtime and he had a playbook that
he ran by and he did.
I mean, this is not you knowI'm.
I'm sorry, it sucks, becausethis weekend I was thinking
(31:32):
about how I'm kind of trapped inthis position where I seem to
be commenting on everythinggoing on in the Catholic world
but I really don't think anybodyhas addressed this issue
properly.
And it was the same thing withthe Lila thing the other day
when she did her part, lilathing the other day when she did
her part.
Like there, somebody does needto talk about this stuff without
, I don't know, without, withoutcrossing lines and stuff.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
These are topics that do have to be discussed by
Catholics, so that we do,because other people are looking
in talking about it, and itneeds to be discussed amongst us
well, I think that it's, uh,it's incredibly irresponsible to
not address these sorts ofthings and I think that there
(32:17):
has been a tendency always inthe church and I think this has
always been a bad thing tomisunderstand the precepts
around sins of speech,especially things like
detraction or things like gossip, and they have misapplied this,
especially when it comes to thesins of public figures.
If this was your friend at theparish, sure, having a
(32:42):
conversation about this, it may,outside of very limited
circumstances, probably would besomething close to a sin of
speech.
You have to very much guardyourself against making those
statements.
But it has always beenrecognized in the church that
there is a certain uniquenesswhen it comes to public figures
(33:04):
and you can read, for example,st Ignatius when he's talking
about his, quickly, just talkingabout his examination of
conscience and the sins ofactions, the sins of thoughts,
the sins of words and how we door do not sin by sins of words.
He's very clear about this isthe unique role of a public
figure and the type of thingsthat can be said about a public
(33:26):
figure, because these need to beaddressed for the common good
and it would be incrediblyirresponsible, uh, for us or for
somebody not to uh sort of pickup the the mantle of frankly
talking about this, the lessonsto be drawn, the uh the easy,
easy sins that can be falleninto, like I've been for anybody
(33:48):
who is on the right or the leftof me here.
A lot of people have been sayingboth of like oh wagner, you
know you're giving too much, ora a Wagner should never talk
about this.
For both of them, I mean, I've,I've uh call, uh I've spoken
about the dangers that can comefrom credulousness you know very
uh easily believing people inlike grounds, especially people
who do not have atrustworthiness and also the uh
(34:11):
the sins, rashness Very easy tobe rash about this as well.
So, where there can be sinscommitted and where there are
moral lessons to be drawn andwhere there is a general danger
like what is exactly the problemwith talking about this?
I think it's from people whoeither haven't thought about
this or have some sort ofpersonal emotional attachment to
(34:34):
the situation, which is what Imeant about the threading the
needle very closely.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Yeah, well, I'm curious, do you even because,
look this, this business doesrequire collaboration, right,
like you and I have two totallydifferent channels, but you and
I are collaborating together,yeah, do you think anybody would
even collaborate with him atthis point, like that?
That's?
That's like something I've beenwondering.
(34:59):
If he wants, if he wants tocome back into this, like who
would, even who would be thefirst.
But unless he's, unless he'scoming on with a guy like me to
face a real interview and realquestions like what is this,
this, this, this?
I don't know, I don't see whatI mean.
What's he gonna do?
Speaker 1 (35:15):
gonna go back to my podcast no, I don't, I don't
think that, um, those types ofpodcasts would, would have the
interview, um, I think thatthere's a lot of clout goblins
out there and I think that a lotof them would uh be fine with
collaborating, um, obviouslylike on a much smaller scale,
(35:35):
but that is.
That is something that I thinkwe need to go, we need to
prepare ourselves for is, youknow the contingency of?
You know he's three weeks fromnow, trying to make content
again, like, what are the steps?
Um, you know what?
What are what are the steps toto try to oppose this?
And I think that that it'sperfectly reasonable to have an
organized way of thinking abouthow this is opposed, how we
(36:00):
explain to people who are ofgoodwill and are willing to
listen why this is a bad thingand the type of damage it's
causing, because there are a lotof people out there who you
know they are, they are ofgoodwill, uh, they have some uh
disorder when it comes to thetheir own emotional involvement
in this, uh, whether it'sthrough their own uh past,
(36:20):
whether it's through, um, the,the way in which voice of reason
have helped them.
But there are, there are ofgoodwill and there just needs to
simply be an explanation forthe type of damage that this
does, which one can even seefrom the words of Voice of
Reason himself.
It would be hypocritical andcontrary to what he said if he
was to try to come back in ashort space, and I think it's
(36:42):
also perfectly appropriate forthe contingency of him coming
back and collaborating withpeople that the people that he
collaborates with that, uh, youknow, there there'd be um, to
put it in political terms,consequences there'd be.
No, not consequences there'd belike secondary sanctions.
You know, if you buy uh, if youbuy uh iranian oil, you get
sanctioned.
You know it's a nice showreason you get sanctioned I mean
(37:06):
, that's something happened toit yeah, yeah that's a little
bit of a joke, but I mean it'skind of serious is, when it
comes to those people, yeah,there should be sanctions.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Vidal.
Yeah, I can't agree with you,vidal.
It depends what you mean bythat.
Right, I don't consider what Ido, making money off the faith.
Come on here and we talk forfour hours, five hours a week,
and I think if people are giving, if they're producing content
(37:36):
and you enjoy it, they could bepaid for it.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I don't, yeah, I mean , this is just against papal
statements, and I think this iswhat we have to be really
careful about when we just makeintuitive statements like this
of like, oh, I don't think laityshould be making money off of
the faith.
The, the popes, when writingabout Catholic action, said the
exact opposite.
They said that we actually needpeople who are um cooperators
in Catholic action, who are ableto dedicate everything to it.
(37:59):
Um, and this is going to look,there's a lot of different
aspects of Catholic action.
You know there's, uh,everything from political action
to, um, you know, theeducational apostolate, the
apostolate of media, peopledoing media work.
There's a lot of differentaspects of this, but, no, I just
completely disagree with that,and the uh, the Pope's disagree
as well.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Do you want to, uh, do you want to play a Christian
Mario's video?
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Yeah, yeah, I would like to react to that, yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Okay, cause I think honestly, when he put that out I
was like this is spot on, yeah.
It was exactly what I wasthinking, and I consider David a
friend.
Let's see.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
Let's bring it up, okay.
So I had a few thoughts on Voreand I wanted to share really
quickly because a lot of peopleare very upset with.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
And look, I do think we should, because I heard
somebody say we should becalling him Alex Harado.
But like voice of reason is hisrap name and like we got to
call him by his rap name is howI see it.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
So I don't know about Vore, but my post where I
criticized him for posting thathe now has a robust prayer life
after his sexting scandal lifeafter his sexting scandal.
And I think I just wanted toexplain some of this for people
that I think have, like, maybe afaulty understanding of what it
means to forgive inChristianity, or maybe they
don't have a good understandingof discernment.
But a few things.
(39:22):
I'm not trying to soundpatronizing, I just think this
is genuinely concerning whenyou're caught with your pants
down, caught doing somethingextremely immoral like
leveraging your ministry to getwomen to sex you or in sexual
situations with you, and youdisappear for a month and then
(39:44):
you post a video where you say Idon't know what the future
holds for my ministry and thenyou say I understand some of you
won't be able to support meanymore.
That sounds like a guy who'sshaken by the fact that he's
been caught, but it does notsound like a guy who understands
it's time to pack it up and lethis ministry go, because he
(40:07):
still wants to go online,presumably, and see if he has a
shot to get his foot back in thedoor, because why else would
you say those who can't supportme anymore and why else would
you say I don't know what thefuture holds for my ministry.
Bro, I know what the futureholds for your ministry it's
helping you to stop.
You used your ministry toleverage women into sex.
That's bad, and people willrespond by going or into sexual
(40:30):
situations.
At least, I don't know aboutwhat.
If you slept with these womenor not, I don't care, but you
used a ministry to leveragewomen into a bad spot.
That's not good.
And so for the people that areresponding going well, all men
have sexual sin.
Okay, well, congrats.
You're not understanding whatI'm saying at all.
Yeah, but do all men useministry and influencer status
(40:50):
to have a bunch of groupies?
Is that all men use a ministryand influencer status to have a
bunch of groupies?
Is that what all men do?
I don't think so.
I don't think that's true atall.
So, yeah, it seems like a lotof guys with zero discernment go
whoa, oh, oh, guys, he saidsorry, so now he's untouchable.
And now you know?
And now we all have to be supergraceful and like just accept
him, or it's rash judgment, uh,no, it's just discernment, dude.
I mean, if somebody beats hiswife and then says sorry
(41:12):
everybody, I'm not going to beatmy wife anymore.
Are you really going to trusthim to be around his wife?
Speaker 3 (41:18):
I think beating his wife would be less.
Do you want to pause it at all,or do you want to just play it
through?
Speaker 1 (41:26):
No, I think I want to play it through.
All right, we'll play it allthe way through.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
Wife again and not beat her.
I think I want to play itthrough.
All right, we'll play it allthe way through wife again and
not beat her.
I mean I wouldn't maybe youwould, but going on.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Well, no, that that analogy works.
If if the guy beat his wife andhe's going out giving marriage
counseling, right like that's,that's more of an apt analogy.
Like if if a guy's a marriagecounselor and he's telling
people how to have a healthymarriage and then a video comes
out of him beating his wife,that would be a more apt analogy
, I think so for 25 minutes,with all these super dramatic
(41:58):
pauses, and then saying thatyou're holier than thou.
Speaker 4 (42:06):
because now you he didn't say he was holier than
thou, but now saying I have amore robust life that we should
all aspire to Really.
So you say the scandal happensand now you're holier than ever.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
You know, look, I want to stop it there for a
second because Alex did do that,like he commented, how you know
, after this month I have thisrobust prayer life and he said
how he's going to counselingonce.
He's gone to counseling everyweek.
So he's gone to four counselingsessions and he's praying every
day, which is, you know, heprobably should have been
(42:40):
praying anyway, but it is kindof strange how he's presenting
that, and I'm not saying he'ssaying he's holier than thou,
but Christian's kind of right inhis analysis here, I think.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Yeah, I mean, I think that it's really hard because,
as I mentioned, it's a lot ofspeculation and I don't like to
speculate, but it is objectivelydifficult to and I want to
acknowledge this.
It is like objectivelydifficult to and I want to
acknowledge this it's veryobjectively difficult to make a
(43:14):
apology video and make it notsound really, really bad.
Yeah, like, I'm sure there'salways the, because you know you
can kind of plug and chug theway in which a lot of these
secular apology things went.
It's like oh, I, you know, I'veI example, I said the N word.
I'm really sorry about sayingthe N word.
(43:35):
I'm I'm a much better personnow.
Like I've gotten a lot betterabout saying the N word.
I'm friends with a lot of blackpeople.
Now it's like there's a, there'sa sort of script that often
gets followed, but we also haveto remember is like, what else
are you supposed to say?
Like are you supposed to saylike you know, I said it, I'm
really sorry, I still say it, Istill struggle with saying it.
It's like dude, come, come on.
Like that's, that's like areally bad, uh, apology video.
(43:58):
If you're just like, I'm sorryfor doing it, I still do it.
Uh.
So like on the one hand, yeah,it is, it is sort of like a
cliche and that's kind of howthey all go, but on the other
hand, it's like, okay, what elseis he supposed to?
Is he supposed to say like,yeah, I did it, my prayer life
was really bad.
It's still kind of crappy and Istill kind of you know, yeah, I
want to sin and you know Istill.
(44:20):
Kind of that would just be like, okay, what are you even saying
now?
Like this shouldn't even be anapology video.
Like why did you think in thefirst place?
I think it's just like a sin ofthe genre.
Honestly, if I something likethis happened to me, I probably
would make a big old statement.
I'd's just like a sin of thegenre.
Honestly, if something likethis happened to me, I probably
wouldn't make a big oldstatement.
I'd probably just take the Land disappear, because it's just
hard to not make it somethinglike this.
And I get why.
(44:40):
Especially in the spirituallife, it can be especially
grating to people like Mario,because it's awesome to witness
to the power of mercy and thepower of God's grace.
It's awesome to witness to thepower of mercy and the power of
God's grace, but it's hard tosometimes witness to that power
and that mercy without itsounding like you are now
getting on a pedestal andlecturing other people about how
(45:03):
these things work.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
If you get what I'm saying.
Yeah, and also there's a degreeof this right, so okay.
So we apologize.
Did we just move into anotherparish now?
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Yeah, I mean it's basically the same ideas of like
the moving the priests aroundthe parishes, it's if you just
go to a different ministry, uhsort of idea, but yeah let me
let me finish christian's videoout, because I hate when I watch
people react to videos and theydon't just let the video play
out.
Speaker 4 (45:28):
So I'll let it finish out before we comment again and
maybe that's true, but it seemslike it's something that you're
saying as an angle to getpeople to trust you and then at
the end you performatively reada long prayer in front of
everybody.
That's never sat well with me.
When anybody does that orthodoxcatholic, probably, I don't
(45:49):
care it's never sat well with me.
The public praying, praying andall this sort of thing.
There's a difference betweenposting a prayer on Twitter that
you think is pretty.
There's a difference betweenthings like that and
performatively videoing yourselfpraying.
It just doesn't sit well withme.
So that's my thoughts on Vore,and I'm really tired of all the
moralizing and the comments.
Like he who, without sin, castthe first stone.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
I'm just pausing it to annoy everybody, but I'm
gonna finish with it.
Speaker 4 (46:14):
Dude, I have sin.
I'm just saying that this dudeshouldn't have his ministry,
that he used to leverage womeninto sexual situations anymore.
That's it.
And I'm saying that I don'treally buy.
I don't buy it.
I don't buy that he's nottrying to have a foot back into
the ministry.
If he said that he was walkingaway from the ministry, I would
respect him, but that's not whathe said.
Instead, he was walking awayfrom the ministry.
I would respect him, but that'snot what he said.
Instead, he's acting like youknow.
(46:35):
Any indication I can come backin, guys, and make that Catholic
ink money.
I want some of that Catholicink money and it just lacks all
integrity.
And the only reason I'm the onetalking about it is because I
don't see the Catholics talkingabout it.
Before I saw them calling himout.
But now that he said sorry,sorry, it seems like it's all
good for everybody, so I'm gonnabe the one to talk about it if
nobody else is so that's whatmade me want to do this video
(46:57):
today is because he called meout, basically, and somebody
called him the timu anthonyabadi I don't know, it's
hilarious I I like when somebodysaid I thought this was a
captive dreamer video at firsttaco talks, ortho taco talk
video over.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
Uh, yeah, look he's.
He's christian mario.
That was, uh, that was a goodanalysis, I think.
Uh, yeah, look, there's alwaysa danger in pointing at other
sins, right like this.
Past sunday was just thepublican and the tax collector
and for the schismatics, not forthe the novus ordo, but the
(47:38):
bogus ordo was not hey, wait, Ido.
I.
I've read the uh novus ordoreading too.
Hang on, wait.
What was the novus ordo thisweek?
Speaker 1 (47:53):
uh, oh, it was not set the world.
Set the world on fire.
Set the world on fire, yesjesus says yeah, that he has.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
Uh, you know desire no, he came to bring brother
against brother, sister againstsister right, yeah, okay, yeah,
I forgot it for a second, but Ieven I know the novus auto
reading of you, but now we havethe publican and the tax
collector for uh, for the, forthe, uh, yeah, for this me call
me calling you out for notknowing the.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
for the.
Yeah, for the schismatics.
Me calling you out for notknowing the Novus Ordo reading
was basically public ending taxcollector behavior.
I was the tax collector Likelook at this poor schismatic,
this rad trat over here thatdoes not know his Novus Ordo
reading the funny thing is Ialways read both.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
I always do read both , so so I did know it was
brother against brother.
I always do read both, so, butso I did know it was brother
against brother.
So I, you know, I've, I've cometo bring peace, not, not peace,
but the sword.
But, um, the, the publican andthe tax collector is such an
interesting one because we allwant to think we're the publican
, like, oh Lord, have mercy onme.
Else has sent out and said like,oh, thank god, I'm not like
(48:52):
voice of reason, right, butreally there is an element of
any one of us could fall intosomething like this.
If, like this is, this is thepoint of practicing custody of
the eyes and not puttingyourself in a situation where
you could fall into the it's not, it's it's.
There's a whole set of thingsthat come along with when you're
(49:12):
, when you're catholic, that youhave to make sure you don't put
yourself in a situation whereyou could fall into these things
and a lot of.
I think what happened to alexwas he wasn't, he wasn't on
guard for the devil, like thedevil is, you know, roaming the
world.
Roaming the world, seeking theruin of souls yeah, I think this
is.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
This is also why, when last time and this time as
well, it's you'll find thisfunny I actually just turned off
the comment sections on myvideo because it's weird.
It's like these situations whenpeople go into, uh, when people
go into, like argue about thisand blood sport about this, like
oh there's.
This becomes a a very strongoccasion of sin to people, as
(49:56):
either they will uncharitablyjudge my motives, they'll
uncharitably judge your motives,they'll say crazy things about
voice of reason.
To be a sort of level-headed,objective critique of saying hey
(50:16):
, wagner, you said this pointabout him being an actor and how
this connected to your analysisof the situation.
I think it's wrong for this,this and this reason from his
back, people aren't givingcritical, objective analysis of
the points that you made.
They're usually just accusingme of sins.
Speaker 3 (50:31):
How dare you even talk about this?
This is gossip.
Yes, guys, I did mess that up.
It's obviously.
The publican is the taxcollector.
It's the publican and thepharisee.
I apologize, guys oh frick, yeahI messed up, um, yeah, look,
any any time.
I always get those commentswhenever I discuss anything like
this, where people just jump inthe comments and they're like,
(50:52):
how dare you?
Like as if we're trying tostart a fight within the
Catholic world, and that's notat all what we're.
What we're doing, I know youand I actually, when we spoke
this afternoon, it was look, wewant to actually try to help
people not be overly rash onthis right Like you don't want
people to just come down andcurse the person to damnation
(51:16):
and the other one is be toogullible and welcome somebody in
and and believe every singleword that they're saying, that
there just has to be a level ofwe have to be cautious when
things like this happen yeah,because a lot of people don't
realize this, but gullibility isa vice.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
It's usually called credulousness, but gullibility
is a vice because you have amoral obligation to be careful
and prudent and aware and tohave discernment about these
sorts of situations.
So it's almost as if people aredemanding that I sin by throwing
away a sort of common sense, bythrowing away a sort of common
(51:52):
sense reading of the situationand through, like obviously you
know, my experience with humannature, like my experience with
myself, my own vices, how thosevices get overcome, my
experience with other people andthe sort of background details
that they have and how singenerally works and its effects.
(52:13):
It's like inconceivable for meto just kind of throw this all
away and to just pretend, likeyou know, oh, I guess I will
just um, go beyond givingsomebody the benefit of the
doubt and go into a sort of likean infallible ascent of faith
to every word they say, becausethey said an apology.
I think mario is completely uh,you know he kind of said that
(52:34):
the the emperor had no clotheson that one because I almost saw
a complete and unanimous, likepositive reception outside of
mario, um, and like I I tried tosoften the blow on on the way
in which I phrased it, but hekind of just you know, went out
and said it sort of a wreckingball yeah, well, look, I
remember the first apology alexcame out with was um, everybody
(53:00):
was doing the same thing and Iand we were like wait a minute,
like hold on.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
He's not actually that, because all of us
especially me and you in thisarena like we all struggle with
(53:25):
a bit of vanity, right.
Like we, we're all trying tofight vanity, right.
But part of what he's dealingwith is not just the, the stuff
behind the scenes, but it's thepublic spotlight itself, right?
So I still don't think he's onguard because he's fighting to
get back to the status thatgreatly contributed to the poll
(53:46):
to begin with.
Like the reason we did thefirst video, he came out with
that first apology about out andwe discussed it, and I think us
discussing it and then otherpeople speaking on it is what
caused him to take that initialstep back to begin with, because
he came out firing out with anapology right away, like he was
going to come out, defendthemselves and stay in the
(54:08):
public spotlight.
But I think the amount of publicpressure made him take a step
back and I think it's good forhis soul to keep that pressure
on him.
Like I'm actually concernedwith alex's soul.
This isn't just about me notliking alex or something.
It's not anything to do withthat, it's that I.
I'm very concerned that he'sgoing to jump right back into
(54:28):
this and fall back into oldhabits, because these kinds of
habits that we're talking abouttake way more than a month to
actually free yourself from.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
These are things that yeah, I was just gonna say, um,
you're exactly right, there's,there's something interesting
and, uh, providential.
This morning, um, I was readingsomething in saint thomas about
vainglory and basically for himhe's like vain glory is the, um
, it's, it's good and it'sproper.
To seek the, the good that isdue to you, like that that's
(54:59):
totally fine, that's totallygood.
But to seek an undue, um goodis vicious and that's sort of
like the root of pride.
Uh, pride is seeking an unduegood, but vain glory is
specifically seeking the good ofadulation.
So, like other people, you know, sort of viewing you in a
positive light.
And he says this isspecifically vainglory.
(55:20):
You're seeking glory fromothers in ways that are not
appropriate.
And he describes what are calledthe daughters of vainglory.
He says, like, basically, whatare those means whereby one will
use to further this vice?
And one of them is hypocrisy.
It's very interesting.
He says hypocrisy is one of thedaughters of vainglory, because
(55:41):
one is seeking this sort ofundue adulation so much from
other people that they'rewilling to hide their own vices
and they're willing to proposesomething outwardly that's
different, so that people do notstop this adulation of them.
And I think one of the dangersto having a response like we've
(56:04):
had so far is.
It does tempt him to vainglory,it does tempt him to hypocrisy,
to not be honest with himselfand open about his own faults.
Um, because of uh, the, thesort of uh adulation, the
universal adulation that wasreceived uh from this, and it
(56:27):
would seem like this adulationwould foster uh would falter,
rather, if there was anacknowledgement that the good
resolution that he expressed wasnot carried out in perfection.
So, yeah, this is absolutelyright.
These sorts of responses canvery easily especially for
(56:47):
somebody who's not constantlyguarding themselves against it,
it can very easily beget thisvice of vainglory through
hypocrisy.
Speaker 3 (56:56):
Yeah, listen, I'll tell you that that's something I
struggle with, right Like Ilike being the center of
attention.
I like, you know, no matterwhere I go to, it's not just on
this show Like I go to a party,I'm always trying to be the
funny guy I want everybody to,always, you know, not, it's not
easy to fight that, and any, Ithink any of us that step into
(57:16):
this, into this area, probablydo struggle with it, right like
we, we want the attention.
But if you're also strugglingwith something like that, this
can this kind of hypes that up,and you know, I mean, yeah, I
I'm genuinely concerned for foralex, well, well, I don't a lot
of the people.
Speaker 1 (57:36):
They're they're good intention when they're saying
stuff like this, because the waythat they view it is they kind
of view this in a feminine way.
I mean, I don't, I don't meanthis to be like super offensive,
but it's just.
This is how females work.
You know, when you havesomebody who comes out with
something like this, the instantdesires to have that sort of
like comforting presence, like,oh, I'm standing by you, I'm
standing behind you.
You know.
(57:57):
Oh, it's okay, you know it's uh, you know, we receive you, we
accept you, and that's like avery feminine coded thing.
Uh, you know, if I, if I likefor me as a man, you know, if I
fall into, uh, some sort of vicelike this, uh, you know, I'm
going to want somebody to keeptheir foot on my neck and I say
like, oh, you know, I messed up,I screwed up.
(58:18):
Like I don't want them to justlike be super soft with me, but
I want them to be very, uhrealistic with me and be like
hey, dude, like you need to, youneed to make sure you're doing
this, this and this like let's,you know, I will help you out.
(58:46):
This is the support of a manfor another man.
I will help you out with themeans and advice that you need
in order to overcome this.
But the sort of like emotionalcomforting that comes from
praising somebody else, likethat is a very feminine coded
thing.
Or maybe men who are moreeffeminate, who are commenting
on these issues, they may notrecognize that this is, you know
, for a man, you know having asort of infinite adulation,
infinite sort of acceptance and,like you described it earlier,
(59:09):
glazing to have.
That sort of response can oftendo a lot of damage to somebody.
It's not the fact that we don'tlike alex or that we we despise
alex or anything like that thatwe're we're taking this more
objective approach.
It's the fact that actually,this is exactly what needs to
happen.
Speaker 3 (59:27):
Um, and it's unfortunate that there hasn't
been this perspective from morepeople yeah, the people that
love him I made this point inour yeah, the people that love
him, I made this point in ourfirst conversation like the
people that love him should bethe first ones telling him you
don't belong doing this, likefor you, for the good of you.
I feel like I'm the old, like Idon't want to say me, but
whatever.
I feel like we were the onlyones.
When we came out and talkedabout this, everybody was
accusing us of something.
(59:49):
When, when, in reality, I feltlike we were the only ones
caring enough about him to talkabout this, to tell him no, this
is not OK, you cannot.
You cannot just come out withthis weak apology and then just
get right back into this thing.
So supporting your friend meansdragging them to heaven, not
cheering them on as they sprinttowards hell.
Hold your people accountable.
(01:00:10):
Yeah, there's an element ofjustice that we've lost in the
church that it's thisover-emphasis on mercy, to the
point where people downplay theseriousness of sin, and it's
happened throughout the church.
At this point where everythingis just kind of downplayed to
(01:00:33):
lowering the moral standard, andespecially over the past, you
know, couple of decades, whereyou hear all the time like sins
of the flesh are the.
You know the least of the sinsand they are in that they're the
.
Probably, like you know, jesusalways forgave the prostitute
and things like that.
But sins of the flesh lead tosins of the heart.
Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
So you have to hold people accountable when it comes
to things like that for theirheart.
Yeah, I think I definitelyagree.
I think that this is a sort ofway forward that we all need to
be, and this is sort of amessage for a lot of you guys.
It's very easy when you see alot of these people who and this
(01:01:21):
is something that I've had tolike learn a lot and try to
check myself on a lot, when yousee other people who are like in
these comment sections, justsaying like oh, you know, are
you perfect?
Oh, like, you know youshouldn't.
Like you're gossiping, likeaccusing you of all of these
things, speaking ill of yourname, you know all of these
different things, just forhaving a very sort of moderate,
(01:01:44):
level headed, realistic take onthis, obviously like not
committing any sort of sinsagainst him, just to recognize
that that other person yes, theyare doing something which is
objectively wrong.
You need to get into theirmindset of how they're falsely
thinking about this and try toexplain it to them in a way to
(01:02:08):
where they understand why thisis something which is based on
love.
It's not based on hatred orjudgmental-ness.
It's based on love for him and,most importantly, the love that
one ought to have for all ofhis neighbors, all of those
neighbors who are, and all ofthose fellow Catholics of yours
(01:02:29):
who are seeing this situationplay out.
And if they see this treated ina way that is not in accordance
with prudence and not inaccordance with those principles
in which we ought to hold ofcommon sense, then what's going
to happen is a lot of yourbrethren are going to be falling
into sin.
They're going to be genuinelyscandalized.
(01:02:49):
This is what scandal means.
Scandal means not offendingsomebody.
Scandal means that you areleading another person into sin.
Scandal happens by example, andpart of the example is a very
light treatment of these sortsof situations, and you can play
(01:03:11):
into the hand of scandal bytreating them in this way.
So I would encourage everybodywho's probably a lot more
listening right now, it'sprobably a lot more sympathetic
to what I'm saying to, when youare interacting with those other
people, try to actually explainthings.
I know it's really hard.
I have the temptation to justblock the person or just tell
them they're being an idiot orsay, okay, are you dumb?
(01:03:33):
It's very easy to do that, likeI'm always tempted to do that,
uh, but you know, at your bettermoments, uh try to reflect on
this fact.
That's uh.
You need to do that um, allright.
Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
So, honestly, I do think everybody needs to pray
for alex, and I mean thatgenuinely.
I'm not just like say, likereally pray for alex, and and I,
I mean I I think if Alex doessee this, alex, you need to
consider another line of work.
You need to figure somethingelse out.
Like this is not the path.
You're not going to be aCatholic commentator, you're not
(01:04:06):
going to be an apologist,you're not going to be a
catechist.
It's not going to happen.
You have to figure somethingelse out.
I don't know what that means foryou, but this ain't it.
And I don't think anybodyshould enable him to come back
into this space out of love forhim not out of enmity or anger
or anything like that out oflove for him and out of care for
(01:04:28):
the people who enjoyed him.
Like there's just, you know,you just kind of have to do this
.
Um, I, I honestly I feel badfor him because I can't imagine
what that's like, but it's not.
But he doesn't have a wife andchildren.
So this, you know it's, it'snot.
It's not the end of the worldfor him.
It's not like you know he'sgoing to be out on the street or
(01:04:50):
anything, but he needs tofigure something else out.
Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
Yeah, I mean I.
I think that there's a lot ofdifferent ways in which this
could, uh, this could look.
I.
I think that, um, one of themost illustrative examples of
this from a previous generation,which we brought up in the
beginning, is actually the thesituation with E Michael Jones
and Michael Voris.
So, for those who don't know,michael Voris practicing
(01:05:16):
homosexual, continuouslypracticing homosexual for a very
long time, including after hereverted to the church and this
was about to be exposed.
So he himself admitted to it inan apology video that bears
striking resemblance to a lot ofwhat Voice of Reason was saying
(01:05:38):
.
And he came back.
You know he said I repented.
You know I left that lifestylebehind.
Everyone's like oh OK, this isawesome.
E Michael Jones, after that wasexposed, said no, you were
practicing homosexual for a verylong time.
You can see the effects of someof these sins.
(01:05:59):
These sins are very grievousand they affect your soul at
such a deep level that you needto step away for a very long
time.
Go behind the scenes.
You can still work in media,but go behind the scenes.
Don't be in front of the camera.
That easily plays into yourpride.
It plays into a lot ofdifferent vices that homosexuals
often struggle with.
So you need to sit back.
(01:06:19):
I will myself, like he said, Iwill myself become the owner and
CEO of the company, and MichaelVoris completely refused.
A few years later, it wasexposed that Michael Voris was
engaging in the same exactbehavior of a sort of homosexual
strain and he lost everything.
Church Milliton completely fellapart and then now he's still
(01:06:41):
trying to seek attention on somebackwater YouTube channel,
getting 100 views afterapologizing for the 70th time.
And I think this is anillustrative example and the
advice of E Michael Jones isprudent Get away from the camera
can very easily inflame a lotof those bad dispositions that
(01:07:06):
are acquired through these typesof sins, and you don't need to
completely leave in every singleway.
Anthony probably disagrees withme, but you don't need to leave
completely in every single way.
You can write stuff.
There's a lot of behind thescenes.
You could edit videos.
There's a lot of different waysyou can help Catholic action if
(01:07:31):
truly that is your passion andnot wanting should look back and
think about the michael voris emichael jones situation,
because it could easily spiralinto something like this and it
shows a lot of the same uhpatterns actually that's
actually really really goodadvice that you just like, like
there's other ways you could do,you could do this without being
in the public eye.
Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
Like that, like if you, if you really do have
something to contribute, youjust don't need your face and
name out there.
Like that, you could justcontribute and even have a
pseudonym or something like that.
If you think it's valuable tothe church and this is, you know
, that's a.
That's a totally different wayto go about it.
That's a.
That's an interesting point.
I don't even think of somethinglike that.
Um, christian, you got a littlebit longer.
I want to.
(01:08:12):
I want to talk to you on onlocals for a little bit yeah,
yeah, that's fine.
Uh, I'm supposed to play call ofduty a little bit later, but I
need you like like 20 minutes Iwant to get to the bottom of
this catholic ink thing that youwent and did this, this creator
conference okay, yeah, pictureswe're gonna talk about, we're
gonna get on you a little bitokay, we can.
Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
We can talk about that.
Speaker 3 (01:08:31):
You can harass me about it, yeah no, no, no, we're
going to do a little talk.
I want to see how your weekendover there was with them.
So if you guys aren't Localsmembers, come join us over on
Locals.
I want to talk to Christian alittle bit about some of the
things he did while he was overthere and maybe get to the
bottom of some of his scandalthat he's put forth before
(01:08:52):
everybody.
So I'm going gonna startremoving these other streams.
Uh, facebook's gone.
Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
uh, before we get everybody on my channel um real,
real quick.
Uh want to go through some ofthese super chat.
Hey boys, you're boomer mimihere.
Hello, boomer mimi.
Pray the rosary.
So Pray the Rosary at the TLM.
So true, and yeah, that's allof them.
But everybody, reminder, followthe Shorts account.
(01:09:20):
I will talk to you guys later.
Goodbye.
Speaker 3 (01:09:23):
Yeah, anybody that's subbed to Christian and not
avoiding Babylon, go sub toavoiding Babylon.
Anybody that's subbed toavoiding Babylon and not
Scholastic Answers go sub tothem?
Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
Yeah, because I'm like 500 away from 30K so I'm
getting close.
Speaker 3 (01:09:40):
And Christian's a really, really good friend and
we want to support our friends.
So there may be me andChristian have talked about
conferences in the future andthings like that, so there might
be some things coming up.
So help one another's channelsout and share the
The CDF Show.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I think you're muted.
My computer is going.
Oh no, you're cutting out.
Oh no, my computer is likeglitching on me right now.
Yeah, this is what happens.
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
This is what happens when you don't have Rob.
You tried.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Oh no, wait, Wait, we have to Wait.
Let me just make sure, wait,hang on.
I got everything plugged in,all right, am I still glitching
on you?
You sound fine, now.
Oh, this is bad.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Wait, am I not late?
Yeah, but there's still a delay, right?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
no, I can hear you.
There's a delay, oh yeah, butthere's a delay between us.
This is not good.
Hang on.
It's so over.
Uh, I might have to.
I might have to restart mycomputer.
Dude, I might have to.
This is not good.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
It's so over.
I might have to just cook for10 minutes.
I'm not restarting this stream.
I might have to restart thestream.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Do it for two.
I'm going to no, no, no, don'trestart.
Restart your computer, cook fortwo minutes.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I'm going to fix this .
I'll just sit here and cook.
I.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Restart your computer , cook for two minutes.
I'm going to fix this.
I'll just sit here and cook,I'll just entertain.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So everybody from Anthony's side come here.
I'm just going to have some funfor the next two or three
minutes.
Hey, hey, hey, start thisComputer.
Yeah, well, that's what happenswhen your computer's broken.
You know, everyone leaves youand goes to my live stream.
So how's it going?
Everybody, all of myillustrious so he's disappeared.
(02:06):
Now, really, Wow, this is kindof strange.
All of my illustrious YouTubefollowers, youtube supporters.
I want to remind everybody.
Okay, just as a little reminder, I'm not going to say anything,
obviously, about the wholevoice of reason situation until
anthony comes back, becausewe're supposed to discuss that I
(02:27):
don't want to sneak anythingbehind, uh, while he's gone,
although that would be reallyfunny if I did do that and try
to go behind his back.
But it's a reminder to pleaseremember to follow my new shorts
account.
I have now been only postingall of my shorts on specifically
(02:48):
scholastic shorts Okay,scholastic shorts.
So follow that on YouTube.
I've been trying to get that toa thousand followers, so please
remember to go and subscribe toscholastic shorts on YouTube.
Also, subscribe to or follow Idon't know how this works on
Instagram.
Follow on Instagram, walmartThomas.
(03:11):
We're trying to grow ouraccounts in the Instagram sphere
.
And then, for my Shorts account, there was something weird that
happened with my Shorts account.
So I hope that you guys do that, because if you don't, you're
kind of, you're not part of theteam.
Okay, you're also very cringe.
Senior Wagner, you are a helpfulfellow.
Thanks, sir.
You're welcome.
Long-time watcher, first-timechatter.
(03:33):
Thank you, clark.
The late award goes toChristian Wagner.
That's Christian B Wagner DO,but Anthony, he is functioning.
You know, anthony, the thingabout Anthony, I really like
Anthony, he's sort of a boomer.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
He's sort of a boomer .
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I hate you, I hate you, I'm watching you on the
live stream.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
All right, are we?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
good, yes, but everybody on Anthony's side now
remember to subscribe toScholastic Shorts on YouTube, so
wait a minute.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I do have a taffy intro.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I don't know what the hell happened there if the
taffy intro is bad guys, I donot take responsibility for it.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
I do not take responsibility let me uh, I
gotta pull all my stuff up again, because I've restarted my
computer here yes, somebodyasked for the scholastic shorts.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
If you go to my posts page on my youtube account, I
think that's my last post is thescholastic shorts link on my
YouTube account.
I think that's my last post isthe Scholastic Shorts link on my
posts.
Okay, yes, let's see.
So I will post it in chat forall of you.
Fine young men.
So you're still trying tofigure out how to do this whole
(04:39):
intro thing that Taffy made.
I got it, I got it.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Hang on, here we go Ready.
Hang on here, we hang on, herewe go ready.
Hang on, here we go.
Here we go hang on ready.
Hey, hey, uh, I got it guys, Ipromise, here we go ready.
You're sharing the screen.
Yeah, I'm not.
I'm trying to figure out whothe Mr Miyagi face is.
(05:14):
Tell me if you can figure itout.
Taffy always gets usdemonetized with the music.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Oh, he's going to get me demonetized.
It's so over.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
I don't know.
You think that music will getus?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
This is from.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Who's?
Speaker 3 (05:34):
that.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I have no idea.
Look at my eyes.
Wait, did you?
Speaker 3 (05:43):
see, I have no idea.
Look at my eye.
He needs to.
He needs to, uh, axon.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Axon Axon.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Oh, it's Boris Axon, axon.
Come back tomorrow, michaelBoris oh, that was Boris, oh no.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Taffy, taffy.
Okay, I did not takeresponsibility for this no, I
didn't even pre-watch it waitthat was Michael Warris.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yes, I guess, so All right.
So now that everybody'ssubscribed to Christian's new
shorts channel, we want to makesure we do that, so all right.
Now I wanted to ask you,because what was your initial
thought when you watched hisvideo this morning?
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I actually watched it last night.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Voice of, because everybody got mad last time.
We didn't like tell them whatwe were talking about.
We're talking about Alex Haradofrom Voice of Reason.
He put out an apology videolast night.
I didn't see it until thismorning.
What was your original thoughtwhen you saw it?
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Well, there were some parts in there actually that,
upon a first listen and withouta reflection, they're actually
very touching.
Some of the parts when you werelistening to what he was saying
, the tone, the manner ofspeaking, it was actually very
touching a lot of what he saidand it resonates with a lot of
people.
So that was like firstimpressions, like right off the
(07:33):
bat I was listening to it.
I was like, wow, this is very,you know, heavy, very
emotionally charged, like Ireally do feel a lot of what
he's saying.
Like I really do feel a lot ofwhat he's saying.
Like that's first response.
Right, there is definitely, itwas in that sphere.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Like.
That's what my thoughts wereinitially.
So even the first run through,like the whole beginning of the
video, I thought was great.
I was like, okay, this is okay.
Whole beginning of the video, Ithought was great.
I was like, okay, this, this isokay.
But then I cut, I took, I cut uptwo clips that I thought were a
little troublesome, um, andright away when I heard them I
(08:15):
was like, oh, this don't soundright and I I was withholding
from even speaking on it.
And then I saw christian marioput out a video and his
reasoning for putting it out waseverybody was kind of just like
praising alex for coming outand saying it.
And I had this same exactfeeling that christian mario had
(08:36):
in his video and his point wasI'm seeing all these catholics
like glazing alex right now andnobody's actually seeing through
what the what the problem ishere and what it seemed like to
me from from the first runthrough, without even reflecting
on it.
It felt like him testing outthe waters to see if he dips his
(08:56):
toes back in, what the reactionwould be, and that's just kind
of how I my first initialthought on it.
And then there's another,another segment that I found
pretty problematic when hestarts talking about his, his
priest and spiritual father.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
So I think what's important for a lot of people to
recognize is um, it's very easyfor us to lose our souls over a
situation like this.
When we're talking aboutsomebody else and the uh, the,
the possible on the one hand Imean, think about how high the
stakes are for being rash aboutthis On the one hand, you could
(09:31):
be defaming somebody who has anintense work of grace in their
soul, of conversion towards God,a sort of experience that truly
makes people saints.
But on the other hand, youcould be, uh, praising and
running covers for somebodywho's being deceptive, uh, about
this and what I, what I uh andI'm not accusing him of that, of
(09:51):
course um, but I think what weneed to remember is that alex,
his background and that's why Isaid the initial, the initial
sort of emotional response, butonce I sort of reflected on this
a little bit more, you have toremember alex's he's a
professional actor, that's hisjob.
He's a trained actor, tv show,he's a public speaker.
He has professionals workingwith him to produce this
(10:16):
statement, to record thisstatement.
This was somethingprofessionally done by somebody
who is an actor, who had hidthis from people for about a
decade Everybody in his life,even his most close friends.
So that does not mean okay.
So this is what I want toclarify this does not mean that
(10:36):
he's lying to us.
All of those things could betotally not connected with the
truth or falsity of thestatement, right?
Totally not connected with thetruth or falsity of the
statement, right?
So all of those things could betrue and it could also be true
that he's completely beinggenuine with us and really we
don't know, and that's kind ofthe point that I'm going to
bring forward.
But on the other hand, it'salso completely possible, with
(10:58):
all of those factors in mind,that this is something which is
not genuine, it's somethingwhich is a kind of a farce.
And really, what I want toemphasize is the fact that those
two distinct possibilities areon the table and it's something
that we're not going to knowwhich one of those possibilities
are true, perhaps ever, or it'sgoing to at least take a while
(11:22):
of discerning of his futureactions.
So I want I want to everybodysure, rejoice, Be glad that he
has admitted his faults.
That's awesome, that's good.
I think that's a, it's apositive thing but also be be as
innocent as as doves and aswise as serpents.
(11:42):
You know, have that wisdom anddiscernment to be careful not to
just jump right in and say,hallelujah, a month has passed,
he's completely, he's awesome.
Now let's get him back on thetour.
I think that there needs to becaution, there needs to be
charity, there needs to beclarity, there needs to be all
of those things.
The difficult sort of likeantinomies of Christian
(12:06):
perfection is able to holdtogether what seems to be very
opposed virtues, but we have totry our hardest with it.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Look, I'm also going to say I have genuine empathy
for him in that this kid for Imean I'm calling him a kid he's
30 years old but for the pastdecade his career path has been
public apologist, so he's been,you know, this is.
I mean at 30 years old hefinally figured out what he was
(12:36):
going to do with his life and itturns out he blew his.
It would be like going tocollege for for a PhD and then
finding out your your wholecareer path is just blown up in
smoke.
I mean I have genuine empathyfor him in that aspect that,
yeah, man, like some things wedo completely alienate us from
(12:57):
what we thought we were going tobe able to do.
I do think the fact that he wasusing his platform and his
position too many times doesdisqualify him from being a
public representative of thefaith.
I just do.
And that's not to say that allof us don't have sins.
(13:18):
All of us do have sins.
I mean, I've had arguments withmy wife that I would be
mortified if anybody ever saw avideo of you, know things like
that.
Arguments with my wife that Iwould be mortified if anybody
ever saw a video of you, knowthings like that.
But I do think that there'scertain things that kind of
disqualify you from being apublic representative of the
faith.
And this, this video just cameoff to me as man.
(13:40):
I don't want, I don't want totry to read the guy's heart, I
really don't, but it did have anelement of testing the waters
out to see how people wouldreact to him, implying he might
come back.
I mean, I'll play the two clipsthat I had that I found the
most problematic and I'll see ifthey're the same ones that you
thought.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yeah, I mean, I think that we need to distinguish an
objective question and asubjective question and we need
to be very clear about this.
Objectively, I think there'sroom for debate.
You know, if you have somebodywho falls into this sort of sin
in public ministry, you know, isthere a timeline for them
coming back?
Like that is, I think, a goodfaith question that Catholics
(14:19):
can have with one another,either harsher, a little bit
more laxer stances.
I think that's a totally goodquestion that we can have.
Then there's the subjectivequestion of when we can see that
a timeline is so quick to beevident of some sort of bad
dispositions.
So if he's coming back in,let's say, two months, I think
(14:40):
everybody kind of recognizesthat that's not, that's not good
and that's not sort of like agood faith, uh sort of
difference, uh sort of agree todisagree type situation if
somebody's coming back soquickly.
Um, so if you know if he'scoming back in five years, you
know it's yeah, that's great, wejust agree.
You know he thinks that it'sfine to do that.
I don't think it's fine.
Um, we just disagree and I donot doubt that he could be in
(15:04):
good faith and hold thatposition like two, three months,
you know, quick, uh sort ofentrance back into the sphere.
You know, I I don't think thatit's acceptable.
Um, I think that's a definitelysign of, of a of a lack of
understanding of, uh, howdamaging this sort of behavior
is to somebody in the publicsphere.
Uh, so I I think we need tokeep that clear.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Bobby, I'm going to get to your comment, but it's so
similar to my thoughts that Iwant to wait until I play the
video clip.
So Bobby had a good comment,but I want to play the video.
Let's do that.
Let's, actually I want to play.
I have two clips.
I want to play the first one.
Let me just get it ready here.
You guys know me, I'm not Rob,so all right, let's play this
(15:51):
first one.
Let me see what your thoughtsare on this part.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And I need everybody to know that my producer.
He had no idea about what wasgoing on.
He didn't know about any ofthis.
He didn't know my parish priest, he did not know my bishop, he
did not know the people who wereclosest to me.
(16:21):
They did not know anythingbecause I was keeping my sins in
the dark.
But, like I said, like the Lordtells us, all things will be
brought to the light.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
So my issue here, when he's saying that his parish
priest didn't know, saying thathis parish priest didn't know,
is that because he also mentionsthat his parish priest had told
him he should go to counselingback in november and he didn't
listen.
And now he's saying his parishpriest didn't know.
So does does that mean he'sbeen presenting himself for
(17:03):
communion for a decade withthese kinds of things going on,
living in mortal sin like I?
I don't know, that's just,that's a big one for me that his
priest didn't know.
And now, if you, your priest,advised counseling back in
november, has he advised you notto come present yourself
publicly now?
(17:24):
I don't, I don't know it, justit seems like a bad reflection
upon the priest at this point byhim bringing this up.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, I mean it definitely leads you to wonder,
but I mean there's manydifferent circumstances that
could explain this.
So I want to be careful aboutdrawing any sort of definite
conclusion, because I know for alot of people they don't like
going to confession.
It seems like he obviously andhe admits this he had an
accountability problem.
(17:55):
So if he was going toconfession, probably part of the
accountability problem is youdon't want to go to a priest who
recognizes you when you go andconfess.
So I mean it could be that, butreally it would be speculative
on my part and there's otherways of explaining it that
aren't insidious.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Yeah, yeah, he could be power shopping for that.
Yeah, listen, this isn't aboutjudging Alex's heart here or
anything.
This is just about it.
When, when something like thishappens, like to, to, to come
out with an apology after amonth is appropriate, Yep, that
(18:39):
is appropriate.
To come out and apologize andpublicly admit.
You know that, because I reallydidn't, I don't, I don't think
I, I, I don't think I everthought he really did something
with a minor.
My issue was more seeing themanipulation of women by using
the Catholic faith.
Like he used the Catholic faith, he used some of Christopher
West's theology of the bodylanguage to beg these girls
(19:03):
right.
Like he used a lot of thattheology of the body stuff and
that kind of really like, likedidn't sit well with me, but the
main issue I had was with thisone here.
Hang on, Let me see.
(19:35):
Sorry guys, this was the partthat I found difficult.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
And that's what I want everyone else, my audience,
even if you feel like you can'tsupport me anymore, if you feel
like you have to walk away, Iunderstand, I totally get it.
But I just want everyone to atleast know that, no matter how
(20:08):
deep we are in our sin, nomatter how deep we are in our
sin, no matter how broken we are, no matter how fallen we are,
no matter the extent of ourmisery, god can use those things
to bring something good out ofthem.
God can turn those things intosomething that gives glory to
(20:32):
him, and all that I can do nowis offer the situation to God
and ask him to take this, putthe situation at the foot of the
cross, ask for his mercy.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Yeah, it was really just him saying I understand
that those of you can't supportme anymore.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah, I don't know what that was supposed to mean.
When I listened to that like asecond time, I definitely felt
that was problematic, becausethere's a sort of like what's
the connection between theantecedent and the conclusion?
Right there, the antecedent isI understand you can't support
me, but here's thisconsideration, that is, god can
(21:20):
bring good things even out ofthese bad situations.
So, yeah, I do think clearlythe implication is an intention
or desire to come back, butwe'll have to see what that
looks like.
The timeline, as I mentionedearlier, it could be done in an
appropriate way or it could bedone in an inappropriate way,
and so really, for now it's kindof speculative.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
I thought his best bet would have been to go into
like a real program to get helpfor these kinds of this kind of
issue and then maybe in a coupleof years come out and help
young men struggling withsimilar issues like that.
That I could have seen beingbecause I do think a lot of
young men do struggle with thiskind of stuff and maybe he could
have.
I looked at it kind of like auh, a person who struggles with
(22:03):
alcoholism and they go to aa andthen next thing you know
they're hosting aa meetings andthey're helping people with the
same addiction.
I thought maybe there couldhave been an avenue for
something like that.
But I think you're correct inthat we have to be very cautious
in just because look, you do.
Of course we want Alex toreturn to the Catholic faith and
(22:24):
of course we want.
We want what's best for hissoul and we want him to be
welcomed back as a brother.
But that doesn't mean we wanthim in the public for his own
good, not even because we wantto rag on him or anything like
that.
Like, for the good of his ownsoul, you don't want this for
him.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah, I also mentioned that there's the
difficulty of scandal, because Isaw a lot of people they were,
you know, the hundreds andhundreds of comments on
Instagram, youtube and Twitterof people basically commenting
the same idea of like, oh, youknow, if we ever demanded
(23:02):
perfection from people who wereto be in public ministry, then
you know, nobody would be ableto do that.
Or like, oh, if you're withoutsin, why, you know, cast the
first stone.
A lot of people are havingthese sort of reactions, not to
say that there is some sort ofpath forward, a difficult path
forward through prayer andpenance, to perhaps be, you know
(23:26):
, to return back to the publicsphere, like that might happen
and we can discuss whetherthat's a good idea and maybe how
long that takes and things likethat.
Those are open for discussion,but it's actually people who
don't even have that in mind.
Rather, the only thing theyhave in mind is to provide some
sort of excuse for the sin andto justify why it isn't that
(23:50):
serious of an issue.
And I think that it would be onething if people were to mention
the first way of there's a waythrough prayer and penance.
The healing of God's grace is soawesome to be able to overcome
all of these things, which seemto be more so the tenor of
actually what Alex himself said.
And then there's the other wayforward of to just minimalize
and to excuse, which a lot ofpeople are doing.
(24:11):
So there's uh, genuinely,people are being um tempted to
view these sorts of sins in avery light way.
Uh, through this possibility ofhim coming back and I think
that's a serious point toconsider is minimizing scandals.
You know, scandal is somethingthat, incidentally, occurs
(24:31):
through a lot of different acts,unfortunately.
But to minimize it is anobligation that he has, and to
have a, a return that even, youknow, has a as a sort of inkling
of being quick, uh does putforward, whether he likes it or
not, and whether it's hisintention or not, it does put
forward this minimalization ofwhat he did, which we see all
(24:52):
throughout the comment sectionsand all of the different.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Well, I think a big part of the problem is a lot of
young guys, and I see this witha lot of young guys.
They're like, they're like well, you know who am I.
We can all fall for the trap oflust and have a weak moment.
That that's not what this was,guys.
This wasn't him getting caughtwith his search history having
some shady stuff on it.
This is much different thanthat.
(25:17):
This is him using his publicplatform and knowledge of the
Catholic faith to manipulatewomen.
This is a very different thingthan having a moment of weakness
and giving into your lust andyou know you have to go to
confession because you looked atsomething wrong.
It's not the same thing.
This is a very serious thingand it it it's not because I
(25:39):
think that's where most of thepeople, especially the young
guys that I see commentingthey're all trying to.
They're trying to look at itfrom a place of oh, I don't want
to judge him because I'll bejudged like that, and that's
understandable.
I get that, but it doesn't meanhe can't be forgiven.
It just means he can't maintainthe same position he had before
(26:01):
.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Yeah, I think this is why I really did appreciate I
don't think we've mentioned ityet I really actually did
appreciate Mario's.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
I have have his video up.
We can go through it after yousay this.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
But yeah, but um, with mario's take.
What I found to be so, uh,refreshing is that I think that
with a lot of these discussions,there is a an aspect of
christian and Christian commonsense, like sanctified common
sense, that's just completelylost in these situations.
(26:34):
To where and this is somethingthat my friend Riveron is really
good with when he's evaluatingthese sorts of situations it's
like, okay, let's just kind oflike cut all of the you know,
the piety signaling.
Let's kind of cut all of the,the piety signaling.
Let's kind of cut all of thesort of antagonism and
(26:55):
favoritism towards differentindividuals and let's just be
kind of honest and realisticwith ourselves in considering
what went on and the type ofeffects this has for the future,
the habits, the vices that arebuilt.
Let's just be real with oneanother.
Let's look at the way thisaffects other people and the way
that they see the world, theway that they see sin.
Let's kind of like view this alittle bit more objectively and
abstractly, rather than thinkingabout this in the terms of this
(27:17):
is the guy I previously reallyliked, or this is the guy I
previously didn't like, or thiswas the guy I had this or that
feeling towards, or this is myown background of the type of
sin that I struggled or strugglewith.
Thinking about this kind ofjust, in a common sense,
objective way is very refreshing, because I was talking with
somebody earlier and I said thatyou really do need to thread
(27:37):
the needle on this topic sofinely because it's so
emotionally charged and peopleit seems like they just kind of
throw away their brains with howthey think about these sorts of
situations because of all ofthe aforementioned effects,
(28:04):
where people see they're youknow an influencer that they
like, that it's like they'lldefend anything they do because
they have this attachment tothat influencer and it's it's
not, it's not good, like we'reall human and any one of us can
make these kinds of mistakes.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
But I'll tell you right now, if I got caught
having an affair on my wife, Iwould disqualify myself from
doing this.
I'm sorry, there's just somethings that you can't I defend
you.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
I'm joking, that was a joke.
That was a joke, guys.
I would not defend Anthony, Iwould not defend him, yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
I think a lot of people felt this way.
I was a little disappointedwhen he seemed to leave a door
open for coming back to publicministry.
I think that lacks discernmentto bring up in an apology.
But that's all.
Like you know, I don't thinkit's wrong that he came out and
admitted to everything.
I'll tell you.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
OK, one comment I will make, and this might be
extremely controversial.
If you will be offended, justcover your ears.
I also would really like I'mvery much looking forward to the
claim about the texting of thegirl.
When he was a catechist hedidn't deny that any of those
texts were.
He didn't say they were fake oranything like that.
(29:27):
I really would like to see theresults of the investigation
just to kind of get aconfirmation there, because you
know I will give the benefit ofthe doubt.
But you know I would like totrust and verify on a lot of
these issues and I think a lotof people have just kind of
taken his word for somethinglike that because he admitted
(29:47):
the other things.
But limited hangout is alwayspossible with these things.
But you know, obviously I'm notmaking an accusation here, I'm
just saying that I would like tosee confirmation.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
And not just that, even if she wasn't underage, he
was her catechist, he was in aposition of authority over her.
I mean, that would that wouldget you a lawsuit at any company
you were working at, oranything like that.
Somebody's asking can you askWagner how many women there's
too many women to follow on thisThree?
And they only could be yourmother, your sister or you know
(30:22):
a family member.
Yeah, I'm trying to keep it alittle light here, but look, we
went through this in theoriginal video, like these
things are very serious, but Idon't like how these young guys
are equating what he did totheir weakness when it comes to
(30:42):
what they look at on theInternet.
There's a difference inseverity.
I understand it's the same.
It's falling for the samespirit.
I guess it's falling for lust,but this is just different.
This guy preyed upon women andpreyed upon them in a way where
he would know what to look forand what kind of woman to look
(31:08):
for, and he knew what to presentand he would.
He had, he had a, he had a gamethat he laid out and he did it
repeatedly, over and over, andhe was successful.
And he, he crafted this overtime and he had a playbook that
he ran by and he did.
I mean, this is not you knowI'm.
I'm sorry, it sucks, becausethis weekend I was thinking
(31:32):
about how I'm kind of trapped inthis position where I seem to
be commenting on everythinggoing on in the Catholic world
but I really don't think anybodyhas addressed this issue
properly.
And it was the same thing withthe Lila thing the other day
when she did her part, lilathing the other day when she did
her part.
Like there, somebody does needto talk about this stuff without
, I don't know, without, withoutcrossing lines and stuff.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
These are topics that do have to be discussed by
Catholics, so that we do,because other people are looking
in talking about it, and itneeds to be discussed amongst us
well, I think that it's, uh,it's incredibly irresponsible to
not address these sorts ofthings and I think that there
(32:17):
has been a tendency always inthe church and I think this has
always been a bad thing tomisunderstand the precepts
around sins of speech,especially things like
detraction or things like gossip, and they have misapplied this,
especially when it comes to thesins of public figures.
If this was your friend at theparish, sure, having a
(32:42):
conversation about this, it may,outside of very limited
circumstances, probably would besomething close to a sin of
speech.
You have to very much guardyourself against making those
statements.
But it has always beenrecognized in the church that
there is a certain uniquenesswhen it comes to public figures
(33:04):
and you can read, for example,st Ignatius when he's talking
about his, quickly, just talkingabout his examination of
conscience and the sins ofactions, the sins of thoughts,
the sins of words and how we door do not sin by sins of words.
He's very clear about this isthe unique role of a public
figure and the type of thingsthat can be said about a public
(33:26):
figure, because these need to beaddressed for the common good
and it would be incrediblyirresponsible, uh, for us or for
somebody not to uh sort of pickup the the mantle of frankly
talking about this, the lessonsto be drawn, the uh the easy,
easy sins that can be falleninto, like I've been for anybody
(33:48):
who is on the right or the leftof me here.
A lot of people have been sayingboth of like oh wagner, you
know you're giving too much, ora a Wagner should never talk
about this.
For both of them, I mean, I've,I've uh call, uh I've spoken
about the dangers that can comefrom credulousness you know very
uh easily believing people inlike grounds, especially people
who do not have atrustworthiness and also the uh
(34:11):
the sins, rashness Very easy tobe rash about this as well.
So, where there can be sinscommitted and where there are
moral lessons to be drawn andwhere there is a general danger
like what is exactly the problemwith talking about this?
I think it's from people whoeither haven't thought about
this or have some sort ofpersonal emotional attachment to
(34:34):
the situation, which is what Imeant about the threading the
needle very closely.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Yeah, well, I'm curious, do you even because,
look this, this business doesrequire collaboration, right,
like you and I have two totallydifferent channels, but you and
I are collaborating together,yeah, do you think anybody would
even collaborate with him atthis point, like that?
That's?
That's like something I've beenwondering.
(34:59):
If he wants, if he wants tocome back into this, like who
would, even who would be thefirst.
But unless he's, unless he'scoming on with a guy like me to
face a real interview and realquestions like what is this,
this, this, this?
I don't know, I don't see whatI mean.
What's he gonna do?
Speaker 1 (35:15):
gonna go back to my podcast no, I don't, I don't
think that, um, those types ofpodcasts would, would have the
interview, um, I think thatthere's a lot of clout goblins
out there and I think that a lotof them would uh be fine with
collaborating, um, obviouslylike on a much smaller scale,
(35:35):
but that is.
That is something that I thinkwe need to go, we need to
prepare ourselves for is, youknow the contingency of?
You know he's three weeks fromnow, trying to make content
again, like, what are the steps?
Um, you know what?
What are what are the steps toto try to oppose this?
And I think that that it'sperfectly reasonable to have an
organized way of thinking abouthow this is opposed, how we
(36:00):
explain to people who are ofgoodwill and are willing to
listen why this is a bad thingand the type of damage it's
causing, because there are a lotof people out there who you
know they are, they are ofgoodwill, uh, they have some uh
disorder when it comes to thetheir own emotional involvement
in this, uh, whether it'sthrough their own uh past,
(36:20):
whether it's through, um, the,the way in which voice of reason
have helped them.
But there are, there are ofgoodwill and there just needs to
simply be an explanation forthe type of damage that this
does, which one can even seefrom the words of Voice of
Reason himself.
It would be hypocritical andcontrary to what he said if he
was to try to come back in ashort space, and I think it's
(36:42):
also perfectly appropriate forthe contingency of him coming
back and collaborating withpeople that the people that he
collaborates with that, uh, youknow, there there'd be um, to
put it in political terms,consequences there'd be.
No, not consequences there'd belike secondary sanctions.
You know, if you buy uh, if youbuy uh iranian oil, you get
sanctioned.
You know it's a nice showreason you get sanctioned I mean
(37:06):
, that's something happened toit yeah, yeah that's a little
bit of a joke, but I mean it'skind of serious is, when it
comes to those people, yeah,there should be sanctions.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Vidal.
Yeah, I can't agree with you,vidal.
It depends what you mean bythat.
Right, I don't consider what Ido, making money off the faith.
Come on here and we talk forfour hours, five hours a week,
and I think if people are giving, if they're producing content
(37:36):
and you enjoy it, they could bepaid for it.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I don't, yeah, I mean , this is just against papal
statements, and I think this iswhat we have to be really
careful about when we just makeintuitive statements like this
of like, oh, I don't think laityshould be making money off of
the faith.
The, the popes, when writingabout Catholic action, said the
exact opposite.
They said that we actually needpeople who are um cooperators
in Catholic action, who are ableto dedicate everything to it.
(37:59):
Um, and this is going to look,there's a lot of different
aspects of Catholic action.
You know there's, uh,everything from political action
to, um, you know, theeducational apostolate, the
apostolate of media, peopledoing media work.
There's a lot of differentaspects of this, but, no, I just
completely disagree with that,and the uh, the Pope's disagree
as well.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Do you want to, uh, do you want to play a Christian
Mario's video?
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Yeah, yeah, I would like to react to that, yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Okay, cause I think honestly, when he put that out I
was like this is spot on, yeah.
It was exactly what I wasthinking, and I consider David a
friend.
Let's see.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
Let's bring it up, okay.
So I had a few thoughts on Voreand I wanted to share really
quickly because a lot of peopleare very upset with.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
And look, I do think we should, because I heard
somebody say we should becalling him Alex Harado.
But like voice of reason is hisrap name and like we got to
call him by his rap name is howI see it.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
So I don't know about Vore, but my post where I
criticized him for posting thathe now has a robust prayer life
after his sexting scandal lifeafter his sexting scandal.
And I think I just wanted toexplain some of this for people
that I think have, like, maybe afaulty understanding of what it
means to forgive inChristianity, or maybe they
don't have a good understandingof discernment.
But a few things.
(39:22):
I'm not trying to soundpatronizing, I just think this
is genuinely concerning whenyou're caught with your pants
down, caught doing somethingextremely immoral like
leveraging your ministry to getwomen to sex you or in sexual
situations with you, and youdisappear for a month and then
(39:44):
you post a video where you say Idon't know what the future
holds for my ministry and thenyou say I understand some of you
won't be able to support meanymore.
That sounds like a guy who'sshaken by the fact that he's
been caught, but it does notsound like a guy who understands
it's time to pack it up and lethis ministry go, because he
(40:07):
still wants to go online,presumably, and see if he has a
shot to get his foot back in thedoor, because why else would
you say those who can't supportme anymore and why else would
you say I don't know what thefuture holds for my ministry.
Bro, I know what the futureholds for your ministry it's
helping you to stop.
You used your ministry toleverage women into sex.
That's bad, and people willrespond by going or into sexual
(40:30):
situations.
At least, I don't know aboutwhat.
If you slept with these womenor not, I don't care, but you
used a ministry to leveragewomen into a bad spot.
That's not good.
And so for the people that areresponding going well, all men
have sexual sin.
Okay, well, congrats.
You're not understanding whatI'm saying at all.
Yeah, but do all men useministry and influencer status
(40:50):
to have a bunch of groupies?
Is that all men use a ministryand influencer status to have a
bunch of groupies?
Is that what all men do?
I don't think so.
I don't think that's true atall.
So, yeah, it seems like a lotof guys with zero discernment go
whoa, oh, oh, guys, he saidsorry, so now he's untouchable.
And now you know?
And now we all have to be supergraceful and like just accept
him, or it's rash judgment, uh,no, it's just discernment, dude.
I mean, if somebody beats hiswife and then says sorry
(41:12):
everybody, I'm not going to beatmy wife anymore.
Are you really going to trusthim to be around his wife?
Speaker 3 (41:18):
I think beating his wife would be less.
Do you want to pause it at all,or do you want to just play it
through?
Speaker 1 (41:26):
No, I think I want to play it through.
All right, we'll play it allthe way through.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
Wife again and not beat her.
I think I want to play itthrough.
All right, we'll play it allthe way through wife again and
not beat her.
I mean I wouldn't maybe youwould, but going on.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Well, no, that that analogy works.
If if the guy beat his wife andhe's going out giving marriage
counseling, right like that's,that's more of an apt analogy.
Like if if a guy's a marriagecounselor and he's telling
people how to have a healthymarriage and then a video comes
out of him beating his wife,that would be a more apt analogy
, I think so for 25 minutes,with all these super dramatic
(41:58):
pauses, and then saying thatyou're holier than thou.
Speaker 4 (42:06):
because now you he didn't say he was holier than
thou, but now saying I have amore robust life that we should
all aspire to Really.
So you say the scandal happensand now you're holier than ever.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
You know, look, I want to stop it there for a
second because Alex did do that,like he commented, how you know
, after this month I have thisrobust prayer life and he said
how he's going to counselingonce.
He's gone to counseling everyweek.
So he's gone to four counselingsessions and he's praying every
day, which is, you know, heprobably should have been
(42:40):
praying anyway, but it is kindof strange how he's presenting
that, and I'm not saying he'ssaying he's holier than thou,
but Christian's kind of right inhis analysis here, I think.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Yeah, I mean, I think that it's really hard because,
as I mentioned, it's a lot ofspeculation and I don't like to
speculate, but it is objectivelydifficult to and I want to
acknowledge this.
It is like objectivelydifficult to and I want to
acknowledge this it's veryobjectively difficult to make a
(43:14):
apology video and make it notsound really, really bad.
Yeah, like, I'm sure there'salways the, because you know you
can kind of plug and chug theway in which a lot of these
secular apology things went.
It's like oh, I, you know, I'veI example, I said the N word.
I'm really sorry about sayingthe N word.
(43:35):
I'm I'm a much better personnow.
Like I've gotten a lot betterabout saying the N word.
I'm friends with a lot of blackpeople.
Now it's like there's a, there'sa sort of script that often
gets followed, but we also haveto remember is like, what else
are you supposed to say?
Like are you supposed to saylike you know, I said it, I'm
really sorry, I still say it, Istill struggle with saying it.
It's like dude, come, come on.
Like that's, that's like areally bad, uh, apology video.
(43:58):
If you're just like, I'm sorryfor doing it, I still do it.
Uh.
So like on the one hand, yeah,it is, it is sort of like a
cliche and that's kind of howthey all go, but on the other
hand, it's like, okay, what elseis he supposed to?
Is he supposed to say like,yeah, I did it, my prayer life
was really bad.
It's still kind of crappy and Istill kind of you know, yeah, I
want to sin and you know Istill.
(44:20):
Kind of that would just be like, okay, what are you even saying
now?
Like this shouldn't even be anapology video.
Like why did you think in thefirst place?
I think it's just like a sin ofthe genre.
Honestly, if I something likethis happened to me, I probably
would make a big old statement.
I'd's just like a sin of thegenre.
Honestly, if something likethis happened to me, I probably
wouldn't make a big oldstatement.
I'd probably just take the Land disappear, because it's just
hard to not make it somethinglike this.
And I get why.
(44:40):
Especially in the spirituallife, it can be especially
grating to people like Mario,because it's awesome to witness
to the power of mercy and thepower of God's grace.
It's awesome to witness to thepower of mercy and the power of
God's grace, but it's hard tosometimes witness to that power
and that mercy without itsounding like you are now
getting on a pedestal andlecturing other people about how
(45:03):
these things work.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
If you get what I'm saying.
Yeah, and also there's a degreeof this right, so okay.
So we apologize.
Did we just move into anotherparish now?
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Yeah, I mean it's basically the same ideas of like
the moving the priests aroundthe parishes, it's if you just
go to a different ministry, uhsort of idea, but yeah let me
let me finish christian's videoout, because I hate when I watch
people react to videos and theydon't just let the video play
out.
Speaker 4 (45:28):
So I'll let it finish out before we comment again and
maybe that's true, but it seemslike it's something that you're
saying as an angle to getpeople to trust you and then at
the end you performatively reada long prayer in front of
everybody.
That's never sat well with me.
When anybody does that orthodoxcatholic, probably, I don't
(45:49):
care it's never sat well with me.
The public praying, praying andall this sort of thing.
There's a difference betweenposting a prayer on Twitter that
you think is pretty.
There's a difference betweenthings like that and
performatively videoing yourselfpraying.
It just doesn't sit well withme.
So that's my thoughts on Vore,and I'm really tired of all the
moralizing and the comments.
Like he who, without sin, castthe first stone.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
I'm just pausing it to annoy everybody, but I'm
gonna finish with it.
Speaker 4 (46:14):
Dude, I have sin.
I'm just saying that this dudeshouldn't have his ministry,
that he used to leverage womeninto sexual situations anymore.
That's it.
And I'm saying that I don'treally buy.
I don't buy it.
I don't buy that he's nottrying to have a foot back into
the ministry.
If he said that he was walkingaway from the ministry, I would
respect him, but that's not whathe said.
Instead, he was walking awayfrom the ministry.
I would respect him, but that'snot what he said.
Instead, he's acting like youknow.
(46:35):
Any indication I can come backin, guys, and make that Catholic
ink money.
I want some of that Catholicink money and it just lacks all
integrity.
And the only reason I'm the onetalking about it is because I
don't see the Catholics talkingabout it.
Before I saw them calling himout.
But now that he said sorry,sorry, it seems like it's all
good for everybody, so I'm gonnabe the one to talk about it if
nobody else is so that's whatmade me want to do this video
(46:57):
today is because he called meout, basically, and somebody
called him the timu anthonyabadi I don't know, it's
hilarious I I like when somebodysaid I thought this was a
captive dreamer video at firsttaco talks, ortho taco talk
video over.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
Uh, yeah, look he's.
He's christian mario.
That was, uh, that was a goodanalysis, I think.
Uh, yeah, look, there's alwaysa danger in pointing at other
sins, right like this.
Past sunday was just thepublican and the tax collector
and for the schismatics, not forthe the novus ordo, but the
(47:38):
bogus ordo was not hey, wait, Ido.
I.
I've read the uh novus ordoreading too.
Hang on, wait.
What was the novus ordo thisweek?
Speaker 1 (47:53):
uh, oh, it was not set the world.
Set the world on fire.
Set the world on fire, yesjesus says yeah, that he has.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
Uh, you know desire no, he came to bring brother
against brother, sister againstsister right, yeah, okay, yeah,
I forgot it for a second, but Ieven I know the novus auto
reading of you, but now we havethe publican and the tax
collector for uh, for the, forthe, uh, yeah, for this me call
me calling you out for notknowing the.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
for the.
Yeah, for the schismatics.
Me calling you out for notknowing the Novus Ordo reading
was basically public ending taxcollector behavior.
I was the tax collector Likelook at this poor schismatic,
this rad trat over here thatdoes not know his Novus Ordo
reading the funny thing is Ialways read both.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
I always do read both , so so I did know it was
brother against brother.
I always do read both, so, butso I did know it was brother
against brother.
So I, you know, I've, I've cometo bring peace, not, not peace,
but the sword.
But, um, the, the publican andthe tax collector is such an
interesting one because we allwant to think we're the publican
, like, oh Lord, have mercy onme.
Else has sent out and said like,oh, thank god, I'm not like
(48:52):
voice of reason, right, butreally there is an element of
any one of us could fall intosomething like this.
If, like this is, this is thepoint of practicing custody of
the eyes and not puttingyourself in a situation where
you could fall into the it's not, it's it's.
There's a whole set of thingsthat come along with when you're
(49:12):
, when you're catholic, that youhave to make sure you don't put
yourself in a situation whereyou could fall into these things
and a lot of.
I think what happened to alexwas he wasn't, he wasn't on
guard for the devil, like thedevil is, you know, roaming the
world.
Roaming the world, seeking theruin of souls yeah, I think this
is.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
This is also why, when last time and this time as
well, it's you'll find thisfunny I actually just turned off
the comment sections on myvideo because it's weird.
It's like these situations whenpeople go into, uh, when people
go into, like argue about thisand blood sport about this, like
oh there's.
This becomes a a very strongoccasion of sin to people, as
(49:56):
either they will uncharitablyjudge my motives, they'll
uncharitably judge your motives,they'll say crazy things about
voice of reason.
To be a sort of level-headed,objective critique of saying hey
(50:16):
, wagner, you said this pointabout him being an actor and how
this connected to your analysisof the situation.
I think it's wrong for this,this and this reason from his
back, people aren't givingcritical, objective analysis of
the points that you made.
They're usually just accusingme of sins.
Speaker 3 (50:31):
How dare you even talk about this?
This is gossip.
Yes, guys, I did mess that up.
It's obviously.
The publican is the taxcollector.
It's the publican and thepharisee.
I apologize, guys oh frick, yeahI messed up, um, yeah, look,
any any time.
I always get those commentswhenever I discuss anything like
this, where people just jump inthe comments and they're like,
(50:52):
how dare you?
Like as if we're trying tostart a fight within the
Catholic world, and that's notat all what we're.
What we're doing, I know youand I actually, when we spoke
this afternoon, it was look, wewant to actually try to help
people not be overly rash onthis right Like you don't want
people to just come down andcurse the person to damnation
(51:16):
and the other one is be toogullible and welcome somebody in
and and believe every singleword that they're saying, that
there just has to be a level ofwe have to be cautious when
things like this happen yeah,because a lot of people don't
realize this, but gullibility isa vice.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
It's usually called credulousness, but gullibility
is a vice because you have amoral obligation to be careful
and prudent and aware and tohave discernment about these
sorts of situations.
So it's almost as if people aredemanding that I sin by throwing
away a sort of common sense, bythrowing away a sort of common
(51:52):
sense reading of the situationand through, like obviously you
know, my experience with humannature, like my experience with
myself, my own vices, how thosevices get overcome, my
experience with other people andthe sort of background details
that they have and how singenerally works and its effects.
(52:13):
It's like inconceivable for meto just kind of throw this all
away and to just pretend, likeyou know, oh, I guess I will
just um, go beyond givingsomebody the benefit of the
doubt and go into a sort of likean infallible ascent of faith
to every word they say, becausethey said an apology.
I think mario is completely uh,you know he kind of said that
(52:34):
the the emperor had no clotheson that one because I almost saw
a complete and unanimous, likepositive reception outside of
mario, um, and like I I tried tosoften the blow on on the way
in which I phrased it, but hekind of just you know, went out
and said it sort of a wreckingball yeah, well, look, I
remember the first apology alexcame out with was um, everybody
(53:00):
was doing the same thing and Iand we were like wait a minute,
like hold on.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
He's not actually that, because all of us
especially me and you in thisarena like we all struggle with
(53:25):
a bit of vanity, right.
Like we, we're all trying tofight vanity, right.
But part of what he's dealingwith is not just the, the stuff
behind the scenes, but it's thepublic spotlight itself, right?
So I still don't think he's onguard because he's fighting to
get back to the status thatgreatly contributed to the poll
(53:46):
to begin with.
Like the reason we did thefirst video, he came out with
that first apology about out andwe discussed it, and I think us
discussing it and then otherpeople speaking on it is what
caused him to take that initialstep back to begin with, because
he came out firing out with anapology right away, like he was
going to come out, defendthemselves and stay in the
(54:08):
public spotlight.
But I think the amount of publicpressure made him take a step
back and I think it's good forhis soul to keep that pressure
on him.
Like I'm actually concernedwith alex's soul.
This isn't just about me notliking alex or something.
It's not anything to do withthat, it's that I.
I'm very concerned that he'sgoing to jump right back into
(54:28):
this and fall back into oldhabits, because these kinds of
habits that we're talking abouttake way more than a month to
actually free yourself from.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
These are things that yeah, I was just gonna say, um,
you're exactly right, there's,there's something interesting
and, uh, providential.
This morning, um, I was readingsomething in saint thomas about
vainglory and basically for himhe's like vain glory is the, um
, it's, it's good and it'sproper.
To seek the, the good that isdue to you, like that that's
(54:59):
totally fine, that's totallygood.
But to seek an undue, um goodis vicious and that's sort of
like the root of pride.
Uh, pride is seeking an unduegood, but vain glory is
specifically seeking the good ofadulation.
So, like other people, you know, sort of viewing you in a
positive light.
And he says this isspecifically vainglory.
(55:20):
You're seeking glory fromothers in ways that are not
appropriate.
And he describes what are calledthe daughters of vainglory.
He says, like, basically, whatare those means whereby one will
use to further this vice?
And one of them is hypocrisy.
It's very interesting.
He says hypocrisy is one of thedaughters of vainglory, because
(55:41):
one is seeking this sort ofundue adulation so much from
other people that they'rewilling to hide their own vices
and they're willing to proposesomething outwardly that's
different, so that people do notstop this adulation of them.
And I think one of the dangersto having a response like we've
(56:04):
had so far is.
It does tempt him to vainglory,it does tempt him to hypocrisy,
to not be honest with himselfand open about his own faults.
Um, because of uh, the, thesort of uh adulation, the
universal adulation that wasreceived uh from this, and it
(56:27):
would seem like this adulationwould foster uh would falter,
rather, if there was anacknowledgement that the good
resolution that he expressed wasnot carried out in perfection.
So, yeah, this is absolutelyright.
These sorts of responses canvery easily especially for
(56:47):
somebody who's not constantlyguarding themselves against it,
it can very easily beget thisvice of vainglory through
hypocrisy.
Speaker 3 (56:56):
Yeah, listen, I'll tell you that that's something I
struggle with, right Like Ilike being the center of
attention.
I like, you know, no matterwhere I go to, it's not just on
this show Like I go to a party,I'm always trying to be the
funny guy I want everybody to,always, you know, not, it's not
easy to fight that, and any, Ithink any of us that step into
(57:16):
this, into this area, probablydo struggle with it, right like
we, we want the attention.
But if you're also strugglingwith something like that, this
can this kind of hypes that up,and you know, I mean, yeah, I
I'm genuinely concerned for foralex, well, well, I don't a lot
of the people.
Speaker 1 (57:36):
They're they're good intention when they're saying
stuff like this, because the waythat they view it is they kind
of view this in a feminine way.
I mean, I don't, I don't meanthis to be like super offensive,
but it's just.
This is how females work.
You know, when you havesomebody who comes out with
something like this, the instantdesires to have that sort of
like comforting presence, like,oh, I'm standing by you, I'm
standing behind you.
You know.
(57:57):
Oh, it's okay, you know it's uh, you know, we receive you, we
accept you, and that's like avery feminine coded thing.
Uh, you know, if I, if I likefor me as a man, you know, if I
fall into, uh, some sort of vicelike this, uh, you know, I'm
going to want somebody to keeptheir foot on my neck and I say
like, oh, you know, I messed up,I screwed up.
(58:18):
Like I don't want them to justlike be super soft with me, but
I want them to be very, uhrealistic with me and be like
hey, dude, like you need to, youneed to make sure you're doing
this, this and this like let's,you know, I will help you out.
(58:46):
This is the support of a manfor another man.
I will help you out with themeans and advice that you need
in order to overcome this.
But the sort of like emotionalcomforting that comes from
praising somebody else, likethat is a very feminine coded
thing.
Or maybe men who are moreeffeminate, who are commenting
on these issues, they may notrecognize that this is, you know
, for a man, you know having asort of infinite adulation,
infinite sort of acceptance and,like you described it earlier,
(59:09):
glazing to have.
That sort of response can oftendo a lot of damage to somebody.
It's not the fact that we don'tlike alex or that we we despise
alex or anything like that thatwe're we're taking this more
objective approach.
It's the fact that actually,this is exactly what needs to
happen.
Speaker 3 (59:27):
Um, and it's unfortunate that there hasn't
been this perspective from morepeople yeah, the people that
love him I made this point inour yeah, the people that love
him, I made this point in ourfirst conversation like the
people that love him should bethe first ones telling him you
don't belong doing this, likefor you, for the good of you.
I feel like I'm the old, like Idon't want to say me, but
whatever.
I feel like we were the onlyones.
When we came out and talkedabout this, everybody was
accusing us of something.
(59:49):
When, when, in reality, I feltlike we were the only ones
caring enough about him to talkabout this, to tell him no, this
is not OK, you cannot.
You cannot just come out withthis weak apology and then just
get right back into this thing.
So supporting your friend meansdragging them to heaven, not
cheering them on as they sprinttowards hell.
Hold your people accountable.
(01:00:10):
Yeah, there's an element ofjustice that we've lost in the
church that it's thisover-emphasis on mercy, to the
point where people downplay theseriousness of sin, and it's
happened throughout the church.
At this point where everythingis just kind of downplayed to
(01:00:33):
lowering the moral standard, andespecially over the past, you
know, couple of decades, whereyou hear all the time like sins
of the flesh are the.
You know the least of the sinsand they are in that they're the
.
Probably, like you know, jesusalways forgave the prostitute
and things like that.
But sins of the flesh lead tosins of the heart.
Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
So you have to hold people accountable when it comes
to things like that for theirheart.
Yeah, I think I definitelyagree.
I think that this is a sort ofway forward that we all need to
be, and this is sort of amessage for a lot of you guys.
It's very easy when you see alot of these people who and this
(01:01:21):
is something that I've had tolike learn a lot and try to
check myself on a lot, when yousee other people who are like in
these comment sections, justsaying like oh, you know, are
you perfect?
Oh, like, you know youshouldn't.
Like you're gossiping, likeaccusing you of all of these
things, speaking ill of yourname, you know all of these
different things, just forhaving a very sort of moderate,
(01:01:44):
level headed, realistic take onthis, obviously like not
committing any sort of sinsagainst him, just to recognize
that that other person yes, theyare doing something which is
objectively wrong.
You need to get into theirmindset of how they're falsely
thinking about this and try toexplain it to them in a way to
(01:02:08):
where they understand why thisis something which is based on
love.
It's not based on hatred orjudgmental-ness.
It's based on love for him and,most importantly, the love that
one ought to have for all ofhis neighbors, all of those
neighbors who are, and all ofthose fellow Catholics of yours
(01:02:29):
who are seeing this situationplay out.
And if they see this treated ina way that is not in accordance
with prudence and not inaccordance with those principles
in which we ought to hold ofcommon sense, then what's going
to happen is a lot of yourbrethren are going to be falling
into sin.
They're going to be genuinelyscandalized.
(01:02:49):
This is what scandal means.
Scandal means not offendingsomebody.
Scandal means that you areleading another person into sin.
Scandal happens by example, andpart of the example is a very
light treatment of these sortsof situations, and you can play
(01:03:11):
into the hand of scandal bytreating them in this way.
So I would encourage everybodywho's probably a lot more
listening right now, it'sprobably a lot more sympathetic
to what I'm saying to, when youare interacting with those other
people, try to actually explainthings.
I know it's really hard.
I have the temptation to justblock the person or just tell
them they're being an idiot orsay, okay, are you dumb?
(01:03:33):
It's very easy to do that, likeI'm always tempted to do that,
uh, but you know, at your bettermoments, uh try to reflect on
this fact.
That's uh.
You need to do that um, allright.
Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
So, honestly, I do think everybody needs to pray
for alex, and I mean thatgenuinely.
I'm not just like say, likereally pray for alex, and and I,
I mean I I think if Alex doessee this, alex, you need to
consider another line of work.
You need to figure somethingelse out.
Like this is not the path.
You're not going to be aCatholic commentator, you're not
(01:04:06):
going to be an apologist,you're not going to be a
catechist.
It's not going to happen.
You have to figure somethingelse out.
I don't know what that means foryou, but this ain't it.
And I don't think anybodyshould enable him to come back
into this space out of love forhim not out of enmity or anger
or anything like that out oflove for him and out of care for
(01:04:28):
the people who enjoyed him.
Like there's just, you know,you just kind of have to do this
.
Um, I, I honestly I feel badfor him because I can't imagine
what that's like, but it's not.
But he doesn't have a wife andchildren.
So this, you know it's, it'snot.
It's not the end of the worldfor him.
It's not like you know he'sgoing to be out on the street or
(01:04:50):
anything, but he needs tofigure something else out.
Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
Yeah, I mean I.
I think that there's a lot ofdifferent ways in which this
could, uh, this could look.
I.
I think that, um, one of themost illustrative examples of
this from a previous generation,which we brought up in the
beginning, is actually the thesituation with E Michael Jones
and Michael Voris.
So, for those who don't know,michael Voris practicing
(01:05:16):
homosexual, continuouslypracticing homosexual for a very
long time, including after hereverted to the church and this
was about to be exposed.
So he himself admitted to it inan apology video that bears
striking resemblance to a lot ofwhat Voice of Reason was saying
(01:05:38):
.
And he came back.
You know he said I repented.
You know I left that lifestylebehind.
Everyone's like oh OK, this isawesome.
E Michael Jones, after that wasexposed, said no, you were
practicing homosexual for a verylong time.
You can see the effects of someof these sins.
(01:05:59):
These sins are very grievousand they affect your soul at
such a deep level that you needto step away for a very long
time.
Go behind the scenes.
You can still work in media,but go behind the scenes.
Don't be in front of the camera.
That easily plays into yourpride.
It plays into a lot ofdifferent vices that homosexuals
often struggle with.
So you need to sit back.
(01:06:19):
I will myself, like he said, Iwill myself become the owner and
CEO of the company, and MichaelVoris completely refused.
A few years later, it wasexposed that Michael Voris was
engaging in the same exactbehavior of a sort of homosexual
strain and he lost everything.
Church Milliton completely fellapart and then now he's still
(01:06:41):
trying to seek attention on somebackwater YouTube channel,
getting 100 views afterapologizing for the 70th time.
And I think this is anillustrative example and the
advice of E Michael Jones isprudent Get away from the camera
can very easily inflame a lotof those bad dispositions that
(01:07:06):
are acquired through these typesof sins, and you don't need to
completely leave in every singleway.
Anthony probably disagrees withme, but you don't need to leave
completely in every single way.
You can write stuff.
There's a lot of behind thescenes.
You could edit videos.
There's a lot of different waysyou can help Catholic action if
(01:07:31):
truly that is your passion andnot wanting should look back and
think about the michael voris emichael jones situation,
because it could easily spiralinto something like this and it
shows a lot of the same uhpatterns actually that's
actually really really goodadvice that you just like, like
there's other ways you could do,you could do this without being
in the public eye.
Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
Like that, like if you, if you really do have
something to contribute, youjust don't need your face and
name out there.
Like that, you could justcontribute and even have a
pseudonym or something like that.
If you think it's valuable tothe church and this is, you know
, that's a.
That's a totally different wayto go about it.
That's a.
That's an interesting point.
I don't even think of somethinglike that.
Um, christian, you got a littlebit longer.
I want to.
(01:08:12):
I want to talk to you on onlocals for a little bit yeah,
yeah, that's fine.
Uh, I'm supposed to play call ofduty a little bit later, but I
need you like like 20 minutes Iwant to get to the bottom of
this catholic ink thing that youwent and did this, this creator
conference okay, yeah, pictureswe're gonna talk about, we're
gonna get on you a little bitokay, we can.
Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
We can talk about that.
Speaker 3 (01:08:31):
You can harass me about it, yeah no, no, no, we're
going to do a little talk.
I want to see how your weekendover there was with them.
So if you guys aren't Localsmembers, come join us over on
Locals.
I want to talk to Christian alittle bit about some of the
things he did while he was overthere and maybe get to the
bottom of some of his scandalthat he's put forth before
(01:08:52):
everybody.
So I'm going gonna startremoving these other streams.
Uh, facebook's gone.
Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
uh, before we get everybody on my channel um real,
real quick.
Uh want to go through some ofthese super chat.
Hey boys, you're boomer mimihere.
Hello, boomer mimi.
Pray the rosary.
So Pray the Rosary at the TLM.
So true, and yeah, that's allof them.
But everybody, reminder, followthe Shorts account.
(01:09:20):
I will talk to you guys later.
Goodbye.
Speaker 3 (01:09:23):
Yeah, anybody that's subbed to Christian and not
avoiding Babylon, go sub toavoiding Babylon.
Anybody that's subbed toavoiding Babylon and not
Scholastic Answers go sub tothem?
Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
Yeah, because I'm like 500 away from 30K so I'm
getting close.
Speaker 3 (01:09:40):
And Christian's a really, really good friend and
we want to support our friends.
So there may be me andChristian have talked about
conferences in the future andthings like that, so there might
be some things coming up.
So help one another's channelsout and share the
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