November 21, 2025 • 53 mins
What if Paul’s fiercest argument isn’t a detour but the key that ties Israel’s story together? We took a five-hour deep dive into Romans 9–11 and came up for air convinced that Paul’s mission to the Gentiles is how God keeps his promise to Israel—by finding the lost among the nations and rebuilding a family on the cornerstone of Christ.
We start by tracing the pattern of the younger overtaking the older—Isaac, Jacob, Joseph—and how that pattern prepares Exodus, where God names Israel his firstborn and hints that the nations are the younger sibling. From the Davidic high point to the split of north and south, we follow exile, pride, and the prophets to Jonah, whose “sign” is death and rising, not fish tales. That sign lands with force when the temple falls forty years after the crucifixion. Then we connect Peter’s confession and the keys to Isaiah’s royal steward, showing how the church stands as the Davidic household made new in Christ.
Along the way we tackle a thorny subject: Zion read carnally versus Zion fulfilled in the Messiah. We challenge the habit of projecting sacred promises onto secular power, and we warn how pride—religious or political—blinds otherwise devout people to what God is doing. Paul’s hard words—“not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel”—become a lifeline when institutions shake and headlines stoke fear. Instead of checklist prophecy, we argue for humble vigilance: Scripture reads us before we read it, and fulfillment is clearest in hindsight.
If you crave a canonical reading that makes Romans 9–11 come alive, that connects Genesis to Peter’s keys, and that invites a humbler, braver faith, this one’s for you. Subscribe, share with a friend who loves Bible typology, and leave a review to tell us where you agree, where you think we stretched, and what you want us to unpack next.
Take advantage of great Catholic red wines by heading over to https://recusantcellars.com/ and using code "BASED" for 10% off at checkout!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:31):
Taffy's gonna be so upset.
I told him we got a good video.
I told him we were gonna use thevideo this week.
It was a decent one.
Oh, did you?
Yeah, I thought we could haveused it.
I didn't have time.
Um, so I convinced Rob to sitthrough a five-hour Scott Hahn
(00:52):
lecture series, and I have notspoken to him since.
And I'm not about that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We've obviously talked, but I amvery curious just your initial
uh initial reaction.
How did you like it?
Did you cap like did it keepyour attention?
You you never have been a ScottHahn guy, like, but I think most
(01:14):
of your exposure to Scott Hahnwas probably like the lighthouse
Catholic media talks where he'slike presenting uh like a an
apologetics argument in an hourlike C D or something.
But this is a deep dive intoRomans 9 through 11 that he gave
to priests.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
I've never felt like I needed to listen to Scott Hahn
when I'm talking to you twice aweek.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:36):
I get him regurgitated to me all the time,
yeah, with a new accent.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
Okay, but what did you think of this five-hour
talk?
SPEAKER_02 (01:46):
It was um it was very interesting.
So, because Romans chapters ninethrough eleven are often like
the verses often used to supportZionism, right?
And in listening to him gothrough it and some of the some
of the items he points out thatPaul is very careful in how he
(02:07):
says things, makes it very clearthat Romans 9 through 11 is not
pro-Zionist, it's absolutelyanti-Zionist in a modern
context, but also just how itcan uh be applied throughout so
much of the Old Testament, NewTestament, and history since
then.
Um very eye-opening.
SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
Did you know how like did you know that Paul is
quoting the Old Testament everysingle thing he's saying?
Basically, it's basically likePaul puts like a few words of
his own in, but then he throwsin an old testament quote.
SPEAKER_02 (02:42):
I mean, I I knew it from uh an intellectual
standpoint, but I couldn't havetold you what verses were
quoting what old testamentverse.
SPEAKER_00 (02:52):
No, pretty it's pretty crazy.
Like when you actually go andsee that because I if you read
those yourself, you just thinkPaul is writing, and you don't
but especially if you're notwell versed in the old
testament, but everything Paul'swriting is uh is is trying to
bring especially the uh a Jewishreader to reflect on the
(03:13):
scriptures that they know isinteresting because it's in the
letter to the Romans, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:17):
Which I mean, obviously he's still writing to
the Jews in Rome, um, becausethere was a large population of
them there, but um you know,it's not like some of the other
letters or or script, you know,like the gospel of Matthew
obviously was written to theHebrews, you know, whereas Luke
was written more to theGentiles.
SPEAKER_00 (03:35):
The book of Hebrews is literally written to Hebrews,
right?
And he's trying to explain tothem how Christ is the new new
high priest and all that stuff.
But what he's doing in Romans,yeah, you would think he's
writing to the Roman church, heshould be writing to the
Gentiles, but it's it's a it's atheme that we've talked about
(03:56):
like a few times on this show,but what Paul is doing is
describing how God is fulfillinga promise, many promises from
the old testament by choosinghim to be an apostle to the
gentiles, and it's and he'sexplaining how God has not
(04:18):
forsaken Israel by making Paulan apostle to the because you
would think Paul's knowledge ofthe old testament, you would
think Paul would have been anapostle to the Jews because he's
so thoroughly well read in theold testament, right?
He's a Pharisee, he studiedunder Gamaliel, like he you
would think he would be the onewho's going to the Jews because
(04:40):
he can run circles around themwhen it comes to scripture, but
God sends him to be an apostleto the Gentiles.
But the reason he's doing thisis the case that Paul lays out
in these two chapters, which isessentially that the God by by
by converting the Gentiles, Godis actually fulfilling the
(05:03):
promise to unite all 12 tribesof Israel.
So, what I thought we would dotonight um is kind of go because
I know Catholics aren't thatwell versed in the old
testament, so I thought we wouldkind of just go through
salvation history a bit tonighton on this channel, I mean on
(05:23):
this episode, because I wanteverybody to actually know the
the the narrative.
And if I hadn't listened toScott go through this stuff over
years, I don't think I wouldknow because even though I've
you know I've read Genesis a fewtimes, or I've you know, I know
the story of the Exodus, and Iknow these things, understanding
understanding it in a coherentnarrative puts the whole thing
(05:47):
in a different perspective, andit gives you insights into the
things we're we're looking attoday, also because typology is
not just the old concealed inthe new and the new revealed in
the old.
Typology is actually the wayreality unfolds, it's the it's
the way the story of salvationunfolds throughout history after
(06:11):
the scriptures are done beingwritten.
And there are so many thingsthat we can learn today from the
mistakes of ancient Israel,especially.
(06:50):
But it's really important whenyou understand the curses that
come along when they break thecovenant.
So I know my like I know my wifeis listening tonight.
Is that making you nervous?
No, but I like she doesn't knowthe whole the whole old
testament narrative, and I wantto make sure I explain it
because like that episode we didlast week actually got 21,
(07:13):
22,000 views on it or something,and it's like so you get a lot
of new people watching, and Iknow a lot of the regulars will
have heard these things multipletimes, and I'm gonna ask you
guys to bear with us becausewe've talked about I mean this
this this has kind of been abuildup that we've been doing
for the past couple of months intalking about the older brother,
(07:37):
right?
And and going through andunderstanding that the
birthright gets passed from theold, you know, gets passed over
by the older brother and goes tothe younger brother, but that
narrative is actually veryimportant.
So to so to understand that evenfrom Genesis, you have Abraham
has two sons, he has Ishmael andthen he has Isaac.
(07:58):
The birthright should rightfullygo to Abraham's firstborn son,
but it gets passed to Ishmaelbecause Ishmael, I mean it goes
to Isaac because Isaac is theson of the promise, but it
should have gone to Ishmael justbecause technically he's the
firstborn, it doesn't.
As you go down, you get um Jacoband Esau.
Esau is they're they're twins,and Esau comes out first, and
(08:22):
Esau is actually um uh wait, no,wait, hesau is actually his
father's favorite, right?
Yeah, so but the birthrightdoesn't go to Esau, it goes to
Jacob.
Then Jacob uh has uh uh 12 sons,and Jacob, who is renamed
(08:44):
Israel, who is renamed Israellater on, but he has 12 sons,
and the youngest is Joseph.
Oh, he's the second youngest, Ithink, but he he's not the he's
not the firstborn, and he windsup being his father's favorite.
He gets sold into slavery byJudah.
Now, Judah is also Judas, right?
(09:05):
Judas is who sells Christ intoslavery.
Now, there's also two Judases inthe in in there's two Judases
among the apostles.
You have Judas Iscariot and youhave another Judas, right?
So it's there's one who there'sone who betrays Christ and one
who doesn't.
So like understanding that iseven important, that even in the
(09:27):
in in in this in the story of ofChrist, how some Jews will
betray Christ and some don't.
SPEAKER_02 (09:34):
And and and understanding that now Joseph as
the younger it's symbolic of thein your you're getting there,
uh, so I don't want to likesteal your thunder, but you
know, we know the kingdom ofIsrael under David splits into
Israel and Judah, and then thetwo Judahs, the two Judases and
the Apostles is symbolic of thesplit that happens within Judah
(09:57):
at Christ.
The Jews of Judah who followChrist and the Jews of Judah who
who don't, the Pharisees and soon and so forth.
SPEAKER_00 (10:05):
So it's like you you see, you see, even the
prefigurement in the storyitself, like before it as soon
as he calls the twelve, you seethe prefigurement in the calling
of the twelve.
Um, now Joseph is interestingbecause Joseph gets sold into
slavery just like Christ.
He then goes into Egypt and heis he ends up sitting at the
(10:28):
right hand of the king and rulesover the gentiles.
Right?
So this is another like aprefigurement of Christ.
He's gonna rule, he's he he's atthe right hand of the king
ruling over the gentiles.
Then you get into the Exodusstory, and the Exodus story is
(10:53):
important where you you have youhave the Jews trapped, uh
they're they're slaves in Egyptfor 400 years, and God tells
Moses to tell Pharaoh, tellPharaoh, Israel is my firstborn
son.
Now you just went through thewhole story of Genesis dealing
(11:14):
with the th the golden threadthat runs through it about the
birthright being passed over thethe firstborn and going to the
second.
So now, if Israel is God'sfirstborn son, the implication
is that the nations are hissecondborn.
SPEAKER_02 (11:25):
The gentiles, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:26):
The gentiles would be his second, you know, they're
not his firstborn, but they'rethey're also his sons.
Then you come to the Davidickingdom.
Now, the the it's reallyinteresting when why do they
call it Zionism and notSinaiism, right?
Because Sinai is where Mosesreceives the Ten Commandments,
(11:47):
and we're gonna get into thislater.
I don't want to jump the gun onthis, but there's a very
specific reason they call itZionism, and it's because Zion
Zion is where where where thewhere David's covenant is is
made, right?
Right, the Davidic covenant isnow David rules over the 12
tribes of Israel.
This is when Israel, this is thegolden age of of the Davidic
(12:09):
kingdom.
It's like the they they which isman, I was thinking about even
the the golden age of thereformation we were talking
about under Elizabeth, and howthey're calling now under Trump
trying to say it's a golden age.
Like there's so many things.
SPEAKER_02 (12:24):
Yeah, but they use that, they use that all the
time, though.
SPEAKER_00 (12:26):
Yeah, but there was just it was just a lot of things
going through my head when I waslistening to this, but this is
the golden age, the DavidicKingdom, when all the 12 tribes
are together, and you have um uhyou have the Ark of the
Covenant, you have uh so likethis this is this is just like
(12:48):
the the where where the theMosaic Covenant was just for the
for for Israel and was uh likeit was a very nationalistic
covenant.
When you betrayed by by themright away, literally
immediately.
Yeah, the golden calf happens,then you have you have all those
(13:08):
prefigurements of even when theuh the serpents are biting them,
the serpents are biting them,and God tells Moses to go make
go make a you guys are solearned.
Learn it.
We're gonna get somewhere.
I promise.
I know I'm stumbling over mything because I look, you have
to understand that this is athis is gonna be a two-hour show
(13:29):
off the top of our heads with nonotes written.
We just listen to this thing,and we're kind of doing it on
the fly, so bear with us alittle bit.
But I have places I want to gowith it, and I'm hoping you guys
stick with it.
Um, so um, after after David,you have Solomon, and then after
Solomon, you have what is it,Rehoboam and Jeroboam?
Jeroboam is the one who breakshe's in the north, he's so
(13:52):
there's there's 12 tribes, anduh Jeroboam goes against the
southern two tribes.
So that this is uh essentiallythe point.
When we talk about Jews today,all Jews are Israelites, but not
all Israelites are Jews, becausethe Israelites are the 12 tribes
of Israel, so the the 12 tribesof Israel make up Israel, the
(14:16):
southern two tribes are Judahand Benjamin.
So when we talk in in the moderncontext of Jews, yeah, those
Jews are Israelites, but thereare the 10 northern tribes are
also Israelites.
Now, the 10 northern tribesrevolt against the southern
tribes, they go off and they aremuch wealthier.
SPEAKER_02 (14:35):
It's for where we want to go later in the story,
it's important to note that theybreak under uh Raya Bohm, who is
a tyrant.
Like he really is uh being abastard to everyone, yeah.
You know, so it's understandableum why they kind of harden their
(14:58):
hearts against Raya Bohem.
SPEAKER_00 (15:01):
He uh like they come to him and they they they uh
they're they're like begging himfor mercy.
They're like uh like your fatherlaid a heavy burden on us.
Um your father laid a heavyburden on us.
Can you please lighten theburden?
He goes, My father's my littlewhat does he say?
He's like, my little pinky isbigger than my father's junk,
(15:25):
essentially, is what he says tothem.
He goes, You think his burdenwas heavy, wait until you feel
my burden.
That's what he says in responseto them.
So that that that kind of bringsa little perspective into Christ
saying, Come to me, all who areheavy burdened, and I will give
you let and I will give yourest.
Like that that's what Christ'sgetting at when he says that.
Like he's actually saying, he'sbringing a call back to to Ray
(15:47):
of Ohm and he's saying, All youwho are heavy burdened, come to
me and I will give you rest.
Because they go to Rahboam andthey beg him, please, our burden
is so heavy.
And he goes, Yeah, I'm gonnashow you a heavy burden.
And he may and he like doublestheir their workload and their
taxes, and he's it's prettyawful to them, right?
So then the the 10 northerntribes break off.
SPEAKER_02 (16:06):
Now, when they break off, they're they no longer have
the temple, they don't have theydon't have the they basically,
you know, the especially whenwell the Levites, the the
Levitical priesthood, theLevites stay with the the
southern kingdom, right?
So they lose the priesthood,they lose the temple.
SPEAKER_00 (16:26):
So now the southern two tribes get very prideful
during this period because theyhave the temple, they have they
still have the covenant.
And ten northern tribes end upmixing in idolatry and they
start doing some wacky stuff.
(16:47):
So this is when this is the timeperiod when um God wants Jonah
to go and preach to Nineveh.
Okay, so um God calls Jonah andtells Jonah to go and and preach
to Nineveh, and Jonah doesn'twant to do it because Nineveh is
Assyria, and Jonah knows if I goand preach to Nineveh, they're
(17:11):
going to repent, and then God'sgonna use them to bring judgment
on the northern kingdom becauseJonah's a prophet from the
northern kingdom, and a lot ofthe prophets weren't in the
northern kingdom at that yeah,yeah, trying to call them back,
like they're they're all tryingto try to call them the northern
kingdom being named Israel, bythe way.
(17:32):
Um, so uh let me let me see.
I so we've done this, but I'veI've read this before on the
show, but if you guys are new tothe show, you've never heard
this.
This is actually an amazingthing that's that's happening
here.
So if if you remember thePharisees come to Jesus and they
and they say, Give us a sign,and Jesus says, Uh, an evil and
wicked generation demands asign.
(17:52):
The only sign you're gonna getis the sign of Jonah.
What Jesus is doing there isactually really crazy.
So um, Jonah's a prophet fromthe northern kingdom of Israel.
He received a command from theLord to warn the great city of
Nineveh about their comingjudgment.
Nineveh was the capital ofAssyria, a Gentile nation.
Instead of obeying God, Jonahfled.
(18:13):
He sailed on a ship to escapefrom his task.
While on the ship, God cast agreat storm upon them.
Jonah knew he was he was thecause of the storm and told the
crew of the ship to throw himoverboard.
We tend to think of Jonah as acoward, afraid to carry out the
will of God.
That isn't the case.
Um, Jonah didn't want to bringGod's message to Nineveh because
God was preparing Nineveh towipe out the northern kingdom of
(18:34):
Israel, who had becomedisobedient and sinful.
Jonah wasn't a coward.
He saw that God was preparingNineveh to bring judgment on the
northern kingdom and wasprepared to die for his
countrymen rather than help theAssyrians destroy his kinsmen.
After the crew threw himoverboard, Jonah was swallowed
by a giant fish for three daysuntil he was vomited up on dry
land.
The important part of Jonah'sthree days in the belly of the
(18:55):
fish is what Jonah prays whilehe's in there.
Jonah doesn't describe theintestines of a fish, he
describes being in the womb ofSheol.
Uh, and then this is from Jonah.
He says, And I said, I am castaway out of the sight of thy
eyes, but yet I sh I shall seethy holy temple again.
The waters encompass the waterscompass me about even to the
(19:15):
soul.
The deep hath closed me roundabout, the sea hath covered my
head.
I should have I shouldn't havepicked the dewy rings.
You want me to know I got it, Igot it.
I went down to the lowest partsof the mountains, the bars of
the earth have shut me upforever, and thou wilt bring up
my life from the corruption, ohmy lord.
So that's just like what Jonah'sdescribing is not the intestines
(19:36):
of a fish, he's describing beingin hell, essentially for three
days.
So the miracle that in the storyof Jonah is not that he survives
in the fish's belly for threedays, it's the opposite, it's
that he dies, right?
Jonah died in the fish, went toSheol, and three days later was
resurrected by God.
He then reluctantly goes toNineveh and gives them God's
message that they will bedestroyed in 40 days.
(19:58):
When news reached the king ofNineveh, he heeded God's warning
and commanded that the wholecity repent and fast.
Because of this, God sparesNineveh.
Forty years later, Assyriacarried out God's judgment and
destroys the northern kingdom.
When Jesus tells the scribes,Pharisees, and Sadducees that
this generation will receive thesign of Jonah, he's showing them
how this is a foreshadowingevent.
(20:18):
In Jonah's day, it was thenorthern kingdom that was
dividing the house of David.
In Jesus' day, it's the scribes,Pharisees, and Sadducees.
They are calling Jesus, the sonof David, a demoniac, saying
that he gets his power fromBeelzebel himself.
They are on the brink ofcommitting the unpardonable sin,
blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
So they're the new northernkingdom of Jesus' day.
(20:39):
Rome is the new Assyria, andJesus is the new Jonah.
Jesus would rather die to sparehis kinsmen, even though they
are sinful.
But he rises and the gospel goesout to the nation of the
Gentiles, who will bringjudgment upon the house of
Israel and Jesus' ownergeneration.
The temple was destroyed 40years later by Rome, just as it
was destroyed by Assyria 40years after Jonah.
(21:00):
Jesus is the new Jonah, thePharisees are the new northern
kingdom, and after three days,the gospel will go out to extend
mercy, grace, and forgiveness tothe arch enemies so that God can
use them as he used Nineveh.
An evil generation demands asign, and Jesus gives it to
them.
Two chapters later in Matthew16, Peter makes his confession
about Jesus being the Christ.
And in response, Jesus said tohim, Blessed are you, Simon, son
(21:23):
of Jonah, for flesh and bloodhas not revealed this to you,
but my father who is in heaven.
So this is this what I'm aboutto tell you.
This is I don't know how to backthis up, but I I read this
somewhere.
Peter is really the son ofJohan, the son of John, not
Jonah.
But Jesus says to him, Simon,son of Jonah.
Simon has become Peter, thespiritual son of Jesus, the new
(21:46):
Jonah.
This and only thing I'm saying Iread was that Peter's father's
name is Jon, not Jonah, but itmakes sense, right?
So Peter's really the son ofJohan, not Jonah.
So but Jesus says to him, Simon,son of Jonah.
Simon has become Peter, thespiritual son of Jesus, the new
Jonah.
This is significant because itis more Old Testament Davidic
typology.
(22:06):
When the son of David wasanointed, he became the son of
God by grace.
Now Jesus, the son of God bynature, has become the son of
David through divine grace, andthe anointing of the spirit at
baptism.
The transfiguration in the nextchapter reveals he is the true
Messiah.
So Simon calls Jesus theChristos, son of the living God,
and Jesus answered, You arePetrus, the rock, the son of
(22:26):
Jonah.
Jesus names him rock because awise man builds his house on
rock.
He does not tell Peter to buildhim a church, he tells him, Upon
this rock I will build mychurch.
As the son of the of as the sonof the new Jonah, Peter receives
the keys to the house of theDavidic kingdom.
Matthew 16, 18 is a directreference to the Isaiah prophecy
about the house of David.
And on that day I will summon myservant Eliakim.
(22:48):
I will clothe him with yourrobe, gird him with your sash,
confer on him your authority.
He shall be a father to theinhabitants of Jerusalem and to
the house of Judah.
I will place the key of thehouse of David on his shoulder.
What he opens, no one will shut.
What he shuts, no one will open.
This is directly, you are Peter,and upon this rock I will build
my church.
What you what you uh I will giveyou the keys to the house to the
(23:10):
kingdom of heaven.
What you bind on earth will bebound in heaven, what you loose
on earth will be loose inheaven.
That's where all of this imageryis coming from, and this harkens
back to this whole thing that'shappening with Assyria and the
destruction of the northernkingdom.
Now, during this time, beforethe destruction of the kingdom,
the northern kingdom is muchwealthier than the southern
(23:32):
kingdom.
But the southern kingdom, whichis Judah and Benjamin, they are
so prideful because they havethe temple, they have the
covenants fill, and they'relooking down upon the northern
kingdom.
They're idolaters, they're this,they're that.
And they're right.
(23:56):
But there's an important lessonin this because not only is the
northern kingdom destroyed, butso is the southern kingdom.
SPEAKER_02 (24:03):
Later on.
SPEAKER_00 (24:04):
Later on, and this is the Babylonian captivity,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (24:08):
So the point is you want to go over what happens to
the northern kingdom and thoseten tribes, and go ahead, you
take that.
And the way the Assyriansworked, what they would do to
(24:32):
quell uh uprisings, rebellions,was when they would conquer a
people, they would disperse thatpeople entirely throughout the
remainder of their empire, andthen repopulate that area with
the mixture of the rest of theirpeople.
So the the ten northern tribeswere not only stripped away from
their home, but broken andspread apart all over the
(24:53):
empire, to where within twogenerations they are no
different from just the rest ofthe Assyrian Empire, they have
become Gentiles in that thatsense.
SPEAKER_00 (25:18):
So the but but the the the only thing I was getting
at is the the the pride of theof the southern kingdom, I just
saw such an important lesson init for us, especially trads.
Like we we especially the tradswho kind of have this this
haughtiness because you thinkyou have the traditional
(25:40):
liturgy.
SPEAKER_02 (25:42):
Like the and and this includes Ant and I of
course, yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_00 (25:47):
All I was thinking about was myself in this.
Like I was literally justthinking of myself when I was
doing this, and I was like, man,like I I really I really think
this is something I need to talkto the people who listen to our
show about because I'm veryworried about this.
Like, there's there's a sense ofpride that comes with when you
when you are a trad Catholic,you think you have, you know,
well, we have the thetraditional faith, and we and we
(26:10):
have the the the traditionalsacraments and we're not uh
falling to modernism and allthese things.
But the problem is when you'reprideful, God will humble you,
man.
SPEAKER_02 (26:23):
And if you if you're too prideful, you're not you're
not looking for that, you're notprepared for it, you're not
ready for it.
Just like the the southernkingdom of Judah wasn't ready
for the Babylonians.
SPEAKER_00 (26:33):
At all.
They did not expect God'sjudgment to come upon them.
And there is such an importantaspect of just having a humility
of heart through everything andand not being too confident in
anything, and thinking you haveyou know you know better than
everybody else.
It's just the the there has tobe an aspect of humility that we
(26:54):
all really need to keep,especially in this time of
crisis.
Because I look, I uh I I look atI look at some people who are so
confident that this isn't thePope, and this is you know, and
it's like, man, I don't thinkany of us can possibly
understand what is happeningright now.
None of us can.
God is doing somethingmysterious right now, and for
(27:16):
any of us to think we knowexactly what's happening, we're
nuts because nobody knows howhow prophecy is fulfilled until
it's fulfilled, fulfilled.
It's one of those things you seein hindsight, but as it's
happening, nobody knows.
We can make some guesses at it,we can try to read the signs of
the times, things like that, butthere's no way to know exactly
(27:38):
how things are going to playout.
So you so you you always have tohave this attitude of God,
please don't let me miss you.
Like, I don't I don't want toend up like the Pharisees, where
you know they thought they wereserving God by killing God.
That's that like that's wheretheir pride was.
They were they well this youthink about especially when you
(28:04):
when you talk like because I'veI've seen people say about the
Antichrist, well, no, he's gonnabe from the tribe of Benjamin,
and they they list off all thethings that he's going to be.
And it's like, man, you think ifit was that easy, there would
just be a checklist.
Oh, well, this can't be himbecause he's this, he's that,
and the father said this.
It's I I promise you, thisdeception, if it comes in our
lifetime, will be one thatdeceives the elect.
(28:26):
So have a humble heart and justsay, God, please do not let me
miss you, because the religiousauthorities of Christ's time are
the ones who should have beenthe first to recognize the
Messiah, and they didn't, andit's gonna be similar in our
time.
The religious authorities, ourreligious authorities, are not
going to catch it, they're gonnamiss it because they are so
(28:47):
worldly, and we can be veryworldly too, and we think we're
being holy because we pray therosary every day, and we do
that.
Just I'm telling you, all of ushave to have a humility about us
right now because we don't knowwhat the heck God is doing, and
we don't want to miss it.
Um, so then uh the there'ssomething also that is important
(29:09):
here is what God does when thecovenant is broken.
Um, so if you go to Deuteronomy,um, and when all these things
come upon you, the blessings andthe curse, which I have set
before you, and you call them tomind among all the nations where
the Lord your God has drivenyou.
So this is when you because youbreak the curse, the punishment
(29:30):
for the curse is you get drivenout to the nations.
Um and return to the Lord yourGod, you and your children, and
obey his voice and all that Icommand you to this day with all
your heart and with all yoursoul.
Then the Lord your God willrestore your fortunes and have
compassion upon you, and he willgather you again from all the
peoples where the Lord your Godhas scattered you.
(29:51):
If your outcasts are in theuttermost parts of heaven, from
there the Lord God will gatheryou, and from there he will
fetch you, and the Lord your Godwill bring you into the land
which your Fathers possess thatyou may possess it, and he will
make you more prosperous andnumerous than your fathers.
And that's in Deuteronomy.
So it's like you you break thecovenant and God disperses you
because that's the punishment.
(30:12):
So what happens is the southernkingdom goes into the Babylonian
exile, the Babylonian captivity,but it's only for 70 years.
And then they're gathered backinto Israel.
And then they start rebuildingthe temple.
And there's like a series ofthings that happen.
So, like the second temple whenChrist comes, did you did you
(30:34):
know that Herod built this thetemple when of Christ's time?
Like that's the Herodian temple.
Yeah, yeah, that's the Herodiantemple.
And Herod is trying to usurp theright of the Messiah.
And Herod's not even a Jew, likeHerod's an Edomite.
Like, so we watched that videoof uh of uh Netanyahu the other
(30:55):
day saying, like, we must defeatEdom.
Like Herod, Herod's like a swornenemy of the Jews, and he
basically buys his he colludeswith the Romans and he buys his
way into, and he's callinghimself the king of the Jews.
It's and he builds, he's likewhat he's like the grand
architect of of the ancientworld.
Like they say that the theHerodian temple was like more
(31:19):
grand than Solomon's temple, butum which is pretty presumptuous
if you think about it.
Well, it the thing is theHerodian dynasty was actually
like the the Herodian Empire wasbigger than the Davidic Empire,
so like that it kind of bringsin this is you have the zealots
(31:42):
who are trying to kill Herod, Ithink, right?
The zealots were trying to killHerod because they wanted the
Messiah to come.
Like, there's so much there's somuch going on when Christ comes.
It's it it's it there's allthese different factions, and
um, but yeah, like Herod Herodwas trying to usurp that that
authority for being being theDavidic king, and he's not a
(32:04):
descendant of David, which iswhy when he hears the prophecies
of the king coming, like he goesand slaughters all those
innocent children, like it kindof makes that make sense because
he is not even a Jew, right?
And he's sitting on the thronecalling himself the king of the
Jews, and then there's thisprophecy that because look at
the time when Christ comes,there is messianic fervor.
(32:27):
You have the Danielic propheciesthat are lining up to either
like the the they're within 30years, so it's either Christ is
born in the year 1 AD or or He'sborn in the year 33 AD.
Like that's how it's lining up,and meanwhile, he's born in 1
A.D., you know, because we judgetime by this by his coming, but
(32:47):
it's like that is this messianicfervor that is going on in
Israel at this time and inJerusalem, and they're all
waiting for the Messiah, andthat's why like Barabbas is a
false messiah, right?
Barabbas is son of the father,but bar Allah.
He's he's a false Christ, he'strying to try.
(33:10):
I I'm I think he was like hemight have he might have been
like a zealot or something likethat.
SPEAKER_02 (33:16):
Yeah, he was a zealot who was who committed
murder, right?
SPEAKER_00 (33:20):
Yeah, he committed murder, he murdered a Roman
soldier.
It's like there's there's justthis fervor going on when Christ
comes.
So when he does come, you nowhave the the the Pharisees are
are they they want their veryspecific type of messiah.
(33:42):
That's just what they want.
So when you when you get whenyou get to the time Paul is
writing in Romans 9, one of thethings he says is um where did
where did I write it?
Uh he says, um, so okay, so nowokay, so now you're at the time
of Christ.
Now the 10 northern tribes aredispersed amongst the nations,
(34:05):
right?
They are completely just justGentiles at this point.
So the people of Christ's timeare thinking to themselves,
like, how it's not even possibleto unite the 12 tribes, like
it's a it's not even apossibility.
So, like, God made thesepromises.
Did the word of God fail?
Like, that's actually whatthey're saying.
Like, did like that, how couldthis promise even ever be
(34:28):
revealed?
So, what Paul's doing in Romans9 through 11 is putting his case
forth that not only not only didthe word of God not fail, but
Paul is not just the apostle tothe Gentiles.
Paul's whole mission is to bringthe lost sheep of Israel back
into the fold by going to thenations where they were
(34:51):
dispersed, and it's like veryspecific where Paul goes.
Like Paul goes to the placeswhere those 10 northern tribes
were dispersed to in order tobring those children of Israel
back in.
So Paul says in Romans 9, hesays, But it is not as though
the word of God had failed, fornot all who are descended from
Israel belong to Israel, whichis a weird thing to say, right?
(35:12):
But I I when I read that, I wasthinking in terms of the new
covenant promise that we havewith Peter, that the gates of
hell will not prevail.
Like that's the first thing thatcame to my mind when I read
that.
It's like, I because I thinkwe're going to get to a point
where the church might get somessy that we will question has
(35:35):
the word of God failed?
Because it will appear as thoughthe gates of hell have
prevailed.
It's going to appear like thegates of hell prevailed, and
we're going to have to keepfaith during that time.
And that's the importance ofbeing humble through this whole
thing and not being proud andthinking because you have this
(35:56):
liturgy, you're gonna catch it.
Because if we lose everything,if all the sacraments are taken
away, because if you go back toour lady of Akita, what does she
say?
She says, The only thing you'llhave left is the sign left by my
son and the rosary.
And if something like that comesabout, like the sign left by my
son, I don't think that's themass, I think that's the cross.
SPEAKER_02 (36:16):
Well, and in in the book of the apocalypse, the the
fathers interpret that to youknow to read that we'll we'll
lose the sacrifice of the massthroughout the whole world for
three and a half years, forthree and a half years, right?
SPEAKER_00 (36:30):
So don't get so proud that you have the Latin
mass and all well, I'm well I'mSSPX, I'm never gonna lose it,
or I'm a Cedivic contest, I'mnever gonna lose it, or
whatever.
You have a double.
I want to get into Zionism a bithere because what you have now
(37:03):
is the the covenant curse isyou're dispersed amongst the
nations, right?
But what I read there is thatGod will gather you back in when
you when you what what what wasit?
He's like when all these thingscome upon you, the blessings and
the curse which I've set beforeyou and um what what Han says uh
(37:28):
in regard to this is you knowpart of the covenant was that
they had a duty to go out andgather the rest of the nations
into the covenant, and theydidn't.
SPEAKER_02 (37:38):
Well, sorry, but that's part of the covenant, and
it will be accomplished one ortwo.
Whether you want to or not, ifyou don't go out to the nations
and gather them in, well, sorry,you've been sent out and
dispersed among the nations, andnow the church will use you to
gather the nations in, and andthat applies to today, too.
SPEAKER_00 (37:56):
So, look, during the Babylonian captivity, well,
first of all the 10 northerntribes were lost for 700 years,
like 700 years.
They were lost, right?
The the the southern two tribeswere only banished for 70 years,
and then they got to come backin.
But what we're dealing with nowis a 2,000-year banishment,
(38:17):
well, 1960-year banishment, or1948, right?
1948 year banishment.
And God starts to allow hispeople to gather back into
Israel.
And I asked Rob the other day,so I can't I can't ask him now.
I would have liked to ask you onon the fly because it's an
interesting question.
Like, because we did that showthe other day with Gavin and uh
(38:39):
and and Scott Hahn, and we got abunch of comments of people
saying, You guys just don'tunderstand Zionism.
Zionism is just the Jews sayingthat they have a right to
self-determination and a placeto and a right to have land.
SPEAKER_02 (38:51):
Yeah, that's the problem, guys.
Don't you get it?
SPEAKER_00 (38:54):
But that's not really what Zionism is, anyway.
Like, if it was just the Jewshad a right to land, it's like
we we offered them to have likeI think after after World War
II, they offered them to haveland in in a couple of places,
right?
But they they insisted it was inIsrael.
SPEAKER_02 (39:08):
So, yeah, in in early Zionism, the big
discussion was where where arewe gonna build a nation?
Is it gonna be in the in the youknow the the pale of pale of
settl settlement in what's nowUkraine?
Is it gonna be uh in SouthAmerica somewhere?
They they thought of havingcolonies down in like Argentina
and Chile.
(39:29):
Um, they thought aboutMadagascar, but eventually they
settled on on Palestine.
SPEAKER_00 (39:39):
They they they didn't settle on Palestine, they
wanted Zion.
SPEAKER_02 (39:45):
Well, what I mean is yes, there were Zionists, early
Zionists, who obviously werepushing for that among the
options, and and the the world,um world Zionist Congress chose
that in the end.
SPEAKER_00 (39:59):
So so the I I had a conversation with Gideon the
other day.
Um, I sp I spoke with Gideon forabout an hour, and like my heart
goes out to Gideon because he hereally has a love for the Jewish
people and he wants them toconvert so bad.
Like you could just tell whenyou talk with him, like he's a
he's a little confused about alot of this stuff too.
(40:20):
Like, I my heart goes out tohim.
I know he has a heart of gold,and he's trying to figure out a
way to bring the Jews into thenew covenant because he knows
they need to be saved.
Like, he's not he's he's he'snot one of the Jews who because
there are there are some of theum what do they call themselves?
(40:43):
Uh uh what what what HebrewHebrew Catholics or something?
Yeah, is that what they sothere's some Hebrew Catholics
who are actually saying that theJews being allowed back into
Israel is is is a fulfillment ofGod's prophecy, and this is a
good thing.
And the problem with this wholething is it is a carnal reading
(41:03):
of the scriptures.
Like we all get mad at theProtestants because they
misinterpret scripture.
What is happening with Zionismis a carnal reading of the
scriptures, and it is from thepit of hell, it is so demonic.
So if you even go to Psalm 2,what is Zionism?
(41:24):
Why is it called Zionism?
It's called Zionism because youhave to listen here.
Why do the nations conspire andthe peoples plot in vain?
The kings of the earth setthemselves and the rulers take
counsel together against theLord and his anointed, saying,
Let us burst their bonds asunderand cast their cords from us.
He who sits in the heavenslaughs, the Lord is uh uh has
(41:45):
them in derision.
But this is the important part.
Then he will speak to them inhis wrath and terrify them in
his fury, saying, I have set myking on Zion, my holy hill.
I will tell them of the decreeof the Lord.
He said to me, You are my son,today I have begotten you.
Ask of me, and I will make thenations your heritage and the
ends of the earth yourpossession.
You shall break them with a rodof iron and dash them in pieces
(42:05):
like a potter's vessel.
This is what the point ofZionism is.
There is a messianic fervor inIsrael now, like there was in
the con time of Christ.
When I spoke to Gideon the otherday, he goes, Look, when it
started out, you know, this wasa minority thought, like a
minority opinion.
Um, and there was mostly likesecular Jews coming in.
(42:28):
And Pope Benedict talked aboutthis in 2018, well after he
stepped down, and he was he wasgetting a little worried about
the way Catholics were getting alittle too Zionist.
He was like, Look, we can wecould talk about like you know,
Israel being a secular state,not saying that they can't be
religious, like think you know,it's it's fine that they're
they're Jews, but like we can'ttalk about Jews in a Jewish
(42:50):
state because of theimplications of it.
Now, I heard Father Rippiger onwith Tim Gordon the other day,
and Father Rippiger was saying,Well, you know, there's a and I
I love Father Rippiger.
Please don't think I'm sayinganything negative about him
here.
SPEAKER_02 (43:06):
I just have to prepare a clip.
SPEAKER_00 (43:09):
I just don't think Father Rippiger even was, I
don't think he was right onthis.
He said, uh, you know, um, thethe reason the church couldn't
support a state of Israel isbecause there's a lot to do
with, you know, how long apeople are in a land, and if
they're if they're not there fora hundred years, you can't
really, you know, give supportbecause they don't have like an
(43:30):
inheritance to the land, thingslike that.
And it's like, no, that is notwhy the church could not support
a Jewish state in Israel.
There is like the church fullyunderstood what this would mean.
The church has always understoodthat if the people of it the
Jewish people come back into theland of Israel, that is the
(43:50):
beginning of the kingdom ofSatan on earth.
Like Maudsley's not wrong aboutthat.
This stuff is very serious.
You're talking about Godallowing now.
SPEAKER_02 (44:00):
The thing is, they may have their because Zion is
supposed to be Zion true Zion.
Is the Zion Kingdom of Heaven,which is the Catholic Church,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (44:11):
It's the Catholic Church.
Like, listen to what that says.
It says, I have set my king onZion, my holy hill, I will tell
of the decree of the Lord.
He said to me, You are my son.
Today I have begotten you.
That is Jesus Christ, he is theMessiah.
They read this with a carnalreading, and they think their
king will be installed in thisland.
It's an aversion.
(44:31):
There is no like this is acarnal reading of the
scriptures.
This is so demonic.
It's one of those.
Oh man, I we should do this onlocals.
(44:52):
We should bring this over tolocals because I I we need to
talk like this is end of theworld stuff.
It really is.
Like, I'm sorry, guys, but weare talking about end of
potentially end of the worldstuff.
And the thing is, there's a lotthat comes with this, especially
with the stuff that ishappening.
Like, there is not a co this isnot a coincidence that the
(45:13):
Republican Party is in a civilwar right now, and this whole
thing, and and Nick like NickFluentes is bringing about the
apocalypse, essentially.
By bringing this conversation,they're just using him, they're
using him as as as a tool tobring this conversation to the
public because they want it inthe public.
(45:33):
Us talking about this, they wantthis, they want this.
That's why, dude.
Do you remember when we do wantit?
Do you remember when we used totalk about this topic?
We used to have to call them theAmish.
SPEAKER_02 (45:43):
Yeah, it's been a while since we've had to use
that term, actually.
SPEAKER_00 (45:46):
Like you think about a couple of years ago, we used
to have to say the Amish.
SPEAKER_02 (45:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (45:51):
Um, look, do you for a second think Ben Shapiro is
not a hardcore Zionist in thathe is like waiting a Messiah?
He is waiting for the Messiah,he thinks he's in the messianic
age.
Yeah, for sure he does.
I don't know.
(46:11):
He is fervently waiting for themessiah right now.
And the thing is, it is thedominant thought in Israel right
now, it is not a minoritythought anymore.
This is a very, very seriousthing that we're talking about,
and it's all about a carnalreading of the scriptures where
they read prophecies from theold testament that are fulfilled
(46:32):
in Christ, and they thinkbecause this is all about
crushing the nations with a rod,their messiah will crush the
nations with a rod, and thisleads to the antichrist, like it
really does.
And the thing is, if if we gotto do this on locals, just
because this is this is beforewe do that.
SPEAKER_02 (46:53):
We should probably uh mention our sponsor.
SPEAKER_00 (46:56):
Yes, absolutely.
We love recus and sellers, so wedo need to mention them.
But this is um this is this iswhere like I'm going to start
getting into some of my my myinsights I got from the Han talk
because we went through we wentthrough the story and the
narrative and stuff, but some ofthe things that I was thinking
(47:17):
when I was listening to this andjust the the the the way this
thing seems to be unfolding isit's a lot.
So we uh Reggie Sincellers.
Um Regison Sellers, you go youuse code base to checkout for
10% off.
Reguson Cellars is a winery outin Washington State, they've
(47:38):
been our sponsor for almost ayear now.
We took a little break in thesummer because they they
couldn't uh ship in the in thehot months.
But while winter's here, westill have them.
We'd love it if you guys couldhelp support them.
They're an awesome Catholicfamily.
They love our show, they lovewhat we do, they love that Rob
can't pronounce their name.
SPEAKER_02 (47:54):
Um that's ironic is I can pronounce Manashevitz
better than I can requisite.
SPEAKER_00 (47:59):
Yeah, it's kind of again that it is bizarre.
SPEAKER_02 (48:01):
Demonic inversion right there, folks.
Um we promise they're notManashevitz.
We do.
SPEAKER_00 (48:08):
We do, we really should do like have like a a
better ad read for them becauseI kind of do this off the top of
my head.
I don't I don't read it, butthey they also ship uh different
fruits and things like that.
But like it's important tosupport Catholic companies.
SPEAKER_02 (48:24):
Unbelievable.
She says I can pronounceManishevitz better because of my
hair.
SPEAKER_00 (48:29):
It's the juke, bro.
Um, it's important to supportcompanies that that actually,
like especially a show likeours, because the interesting
thing is we're the only onesactually talking about this
stuff, and it's bizarre to mebecause well, it's not bizarre
to me.
There are much smarter peoplewho should be talking about
this.
SPEAKER_02 (48:47):
We don't have big sponsors that are don't want us
to talk about this.
SPEAKER_00 (48:50):
That's why we talk about it.
But there are very few shows,there are very few companies
that will sponsor us, andRecucent is one of the very few.
There's one other companyasking, and we're probably gonna
do um Black Monk Rosary soon.
But as of now, Recucent Sellers,the only show, the only company
brave enough to support thisshow and the things we talk
(49:10):
about.
SPEAKER_02 (49:11):
And if you yourself do not drink, buy it as gifts
for Christmas.
SPEAKER_00 (49:15):
Christmas is fun.
Thanksgiving, bring a bottle ofwine to Thanksgiving, guys.
Yeah, bring a bottle of wine toThanksgiving.
That's that's a great idea.
Like, think about the gift youcould bring to your family on
Thanksgiving.
Buy a bottle of wine forThanksgiving.
You know what?
I'm I'm gonna run that for thenext couple episodes we do, even
if they didn't tell us to.
This is a great Thanksgivinggift, it's also a great
Christmas gift.
SPEAKER_02 (49:35):
I wonder if they can give you some bottles before
Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER_00 (49:39):
You think it's too soon, too, too late?
Okay, either way.
SPEAKER_02 (49:42):
Well, I'm just saying for me myself.
I'm we're traveling.
SPEAKER_00 (49:46):
We should have been pumping that all all of
November.
What were we thinking?
Should have been pumping thatall of November.
SPEAKER_02 (49:52):
Either way, remember to do it at the end of the show.
SPEAKER_00 (49:55):
Um, so um, let's see, Irish Catholic last.
The problem is people think incarnal terms, Christ said, You
are of your father, the devil.
This isn't an earthly plan, itis the demonic plan contrived
and executed by the evil onebeginning in the garden.
That so we're gonna get into alot of that.
Like, this is the it is strangeto me, though, that we're the
(50:18):
show talking about this becauseI'm a freaking high school
dropout and a constructionworker, and you're an accountant
from Minnesota, and there aremuch smarter people who should
be talking about this.
And I'll be honest, like ScottHahn should be talking about
this because he knows the story,and he understands the
implications of what's happeningright now, and it's the reason
(50:41):
he would probably never come onour show because I would have to
press him on these things.
It's this is this is deep stuff.
It's like you're God allowingthem to come back into that land
as apocalyptic undertone, likethere's no way around seeing it
that way, and then when you addin all the things we're seeing
happening in the world rightnow, there's no other way to see
(51:03):
this than as being part of theeschaton because and America
plays a very big part in it, avery big part, and things things
seem to be heating up.
So, we're gonna go over to theother side and we're gonna talk
about it over there.
Um, I probably should give mywife uh a login for uh local.
SPEAKER_02 (51:26):
Just give her your login.
SPEAKER_00 (51:28):
Oh Nicole, if you want to watch it still, text me.
I'll give you I'll give you thelocals code, the locals login.
SPEAKER_02 (51:34):
Uh uh, let me all right up the banner to locals.
SPEAKER_00 (51:38):
So if you guys are not locals members, come over
there and join us.
Um I'd be interested to hear youguys' feedback because this this
one is um this is this is uhthis is just from listening to
this whole thing, all I couldthink about was like the
implications for today.
So that that's kind of what Iwant to get into on the other
(51:59):
side.
And this this may be um amulti-part series where the next
episode we may actually gothrough Romans and kind of break
down what what what Paul issaying in the in those verses
and stuff and try to break itdown a little bit, but I mean it
it's a very uh oh Nicole wantsto log in.
(52:21):
Um just come down and grab myphone.
You can watch it on my phone.
I could have just said it.
I texted it.
She's clearly watching.
Just come downstairs, Nicole.
I'll give you my phone and I'lllog in for you.
SPEAKER_02 (52:37):
Oh, good news, good news, everyone.
Requisant sellers does offernext day air, which I'm doing
literally right now to get mailfor or to get wine for
Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER_00 (52:50):
Um hold on, I have to I have to actually get on the
you're gonna have to come on togo here.
Wait, I'm giving my wife thephone.
Hang on.
Wait, it's not playing though.
How do I wait?
No, no, no, don't go nowhere.
All right, Rob, take us out.
I'll give her the phone.
SPEAKER_01 (53:06):
Hold on, I gotta buy my wine.
Wait, I need to make sure to getit for Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER_00 (53:12):
Nicole, Nicole never watches the show, so this is you
do not watches.
I do.
Um, all right, hold on.
SPEAKER_02 (53:23):
Okay, well, I'm gonna start killing streams.
So, everyone, if you're watchingon YouTube, move over to locals
because I'm killing the streamshere in just a second.
SPEAKER_00 (53:31):
I gave her my iPad.
Uh, it was so bad.
I wonder why we're the only onestalking about this.
We're the most unprofessionalshow in the world.
Uh it's the end of the world.
Order your wine now, they'resaying on.
Taffy's gonna be so upset.
I told him we got a good video.
I told him we were gonna use thevideo this week.
It was a decent one.
Oh, did you?
Yeah, I thought we could haveused it.
I didn't have time.
Um, so I convinced Rob to sitthrough a five-hour Scott Hahn
(00:52):
lecture series, and I have notspoken to him since.
And I'm not about that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We've obviously talked, but I amvery curious just your initial
uh initial reaction.
How did you like it?
Did you cap like did it keepyour attention?
You you never have been a ScottHahn guy, like, but I think most
(01:14):
of your exposure to Scott Hahnwas probably like the lighthouse
Catholic media talks where he'slike presenting uh like a an
apologetics argument in an hourlike C D or something.
But this is a deep dive intoRomans 9 through 11 that he gave
to priests.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
I've never felt like I needed to listen to Scott Hahn
when I'm talking to you twice aweek.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:36):
I get him regurgitated to me all the time,
yeah, with a new accent.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
Okay, but what did you think of this five-hour
talk?
SPEAKER_02 (01:46):
It was um it was very interesting.
So, because Romans chapters ninethrough eleven are often like
the verses often used to supportZionism, right?
And in listening to him gothrough it and some of the some
of the items he points out thatPaul is very careful in how he
(02:07):
says things, makes it very clearthat Romans 9 through 11 is not
pro-Zionist, it's absolutelyanti-Zionist in a modern
context, but also just how itcan uh be applied throughout so
much of the Old Testament, NewTestament, and history since
then.
Um very eye-opening.
SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
Did you know how like did you know that Paul is
quoting the Old Testament everysingle thing he's saying?
Basically, it's basically likePaul puts like a few words of
his own in, but then he throwsin an old testament quote.
SPEAKER_02 (02:42):
I mean, I I knew it from uh an intellectual
standpoint, but I couldn't havetold you what verses were
quoting what old testamentverse.
SPEAKER_00 (02:52):
No, pretty it's pretty crazy.
Like when you actually go andsee that because I if you read
those yourself, you just thinkPaul is writing, and you don't
but especially if you're notwell versed in the old
testament, but everything Paul'swriting is uh is is trying to
bring especially the uh a Jewishreader to reflect on the
(03:13):
scriptures that they know isinteresting because it's in the
letter to the Romans, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:17):
Which I mean, obviously he's still writing to
the Jews in Rome, um, becausethere was a large population of
them there, but um you know,it's not like some of the other
letters or or script, you know,like the gospel of Matthew
obviously was written to theHebrews, you know, whereas Luke
was written more to theGentiles.
SPEAKER_00 (03:35):
The book of Hebrews is literally written to Hebrews,
right?
And he's trying to explain tothem how Christ is the new new
high priest and all that stuff.
But what he's doing in Romans,yeah, you would think he's
writing to the Roman church, heshould be writing to the
Gentiles, but it's it's a it's atheme that we've talked about
(03:56):
like a few times on this show,but what Paul is doing is
describing how God is fulfillinga promise, many promises from
the old testament by choosinghim to be an apostle to the
gentiles, and it's and he'sexplaining how God has not
(04:18):
forsaken Israel by making Paulan apostle to the because you
would think Paul's knowledge ofthe old testament, you would
think Paul would have been anapostle to the Jews because he's
so thoroughly well read in theold testament, right?
He's a Pharisee, he studiedunder Gamaliel, like he you
would think he would be the onewho's going to the Jews because
(04:40):
he can run circles around themwhen it comes to scripture, but
God sends him to be an apostleto the Gentiles.
But the reason he's doing thisis the case that Paul lays out
in these two chapters, which isessentially that the God by by
by converting the Gentiles, Godis actually fulfilling the
(05:03):
promise to unite all 12 tribesof Israel.
So, what I thought we would dotonight um is kind of go because
I know Catholics aren't thatwell versed in the old
testament, so I thought we wouldkind of just go through
salvation history a bit tonighton on this channel, I mean on
(05:23):
this episode, because I wanteverybody to actually know the
the the narrative.
And if I hadn't listened toScott go through this stuff over
years, I don't think I wouldknow because even though I've
you know I've read Genesis a fewtimes, or I've you know, I know
the story of the Exodus, and Iknow these things, understanding
understanding it in a coherentnarrative puts the whole thing
(05:47):
in a different perspective, andit gives you insights into the
things we're we're looking attoday, also because typology is
not just the old concealed inthe new and the new revealed in
the old.
Typology is actually the wayreality unfolds, it's the it's
the way the story of salvationunfolds throughout history after
(06:11):
the scriptures are done beingwritten.
And there are so many thingsthat we can learn today from the
mistakes of ancient Israel,especially.
(06:50):
But it's really important whenyou understand the curses that
come along when they break thecovenant.
So I know my like I know my wifeis listening tonight.
Is that making you nervous?
No, but I like she doesn't knowthe whole the whole old
testament narrative, and I wantto make sure I explain it
because like that episode we didlast week actually got 21,
(07:13):
22,000 views on it or something,and it's like so you get a lot
of new people watching, and Iknow a lot of the regulars will
have heard these things multipletimes, and I'm gonna ask you
guys to bear with us becausewe've talked about I mean this
this this has kind of been abuildup that we've been doing
for the past couple of months intalking about the older brother,
(07:37):
right?
And and going through andunderstanding that the
birthright gets passed from theold, you know, gets passed over
by the older brother and goes tothe younger brother, but that
narrative is actually veryimportant.
So to so to understand that evenfrom Genesis, you have Abraham
has two sons, he has Ishmael andthen he has Isaac.
(07:58):
The birthright should rightfullygo to Abraham's firstborn son,
but it gets passed to Ishmaelbecause Ishmael, I mean it goes
to Isaac because Isaac is theson of the promise, but it
should have gone to Ishmael justbecause technically he's the
firstborn, it doesn't.
As you go down, you get um Jacoband Esau.
Esau is they're they're twins,and Esau comes out first, and
(08:22):
Esau is actually um uh wait, no,wait, hesau is actually his
father's favorite, right?
Yeah, so but the birthrightdoesn't go to Esau, it goes to
Jacob.
Then Jacob uh has uh uh 12 sons,and Jacob, who is renamed
(08:44):
Israel, who is renamed Israellater on, but he has 12 sons,
and the youngest is Joseph.
Oh, he's the second youngest, Ithink, but he he's not the he's
not the firstborn, and he windsup being his father's favorite.
He gets sold into slavery byJudah.
Now, Judah is also Judas, right?
(09:05):
Judas is who sells Christ intoslavery.
Now, there's also two Judases inthe in in there's two Judases
among the apostles.
You have Judas Iscariot and youhave another Judas, right?
So it's there's one who there'sone who betrays Christ and one
who doesn't.
So like understanding that iseven important, that even in the
(09:27):
in in in this in the story of ofChrist, how some Jews will
betray Christ and some don't.
SPEAKER_02 (09:34):
And and and understanding that now Joseph as
the younger it's symbolic of thein your you're getting there,
uh, so I don't want to likesteal your thunder, but you
know, we know the kingdom ofIsrael under David splits into
Israel and Judah, and then thetwo Judahs, the two Judases and
the Apostles is symbolic of thesplit that happens within Judah
(09:57):
at Christ.
The Jews of Judah who followChrist and the Jews of Judah who
who don't, the Pharisees and soon and so forth.
SPEAKER_00 (10:05):
So it's like you you see, you see, even the
prefigurement in the storyitself, like before it as soon
as he calls the twelve, you seethe prefigurement in the calling
of the twelve.
Um, now Joseph is interestingbecause Joseph gets sold into
slavery just like Christ.
He then goes into Egypt and heis he ends up sitting at the
(10:28):
right hand of the king and rulesover the gentiles.
Right?
So this is another like aprefigurement of Christ.
He's gonna rule, he's he he's atthe right hand of the king
ruling over the gentiles.
Then you get into the Exodusstory, and the Exodus story is
(10:53):
important where you you have youhave the Jews trapped, uh
they're they're slaves in Egyptfor 400 years, and God tells
Moses to tell Pharaoh, tellPharaoh, Israel is my firstborn
son.
Now you just went through thewhole story of Genesis dealing
(11:14):
with the th the golden threadthat runs through it about the
birthright being passed over thethe firstborn and going to the
second.
So now, if Israel is God'sfirstborn son, the implication
is that the nations are hissecondborn.
SPEAKER_02 (11:25):
The gentiles, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:26):
The gentiles would be his second, you know, they're
not his firstborn, but they'rethey're also his sons.
Then you come to the Davidickingdom.
Now, the the it's reallyinteresting when why do they
call it Zionism and notSinaiism, right?
Because Sinai is where Mosesreceives the Ten Commandments,
(11:47):
and we're gonna get into thislater.
I don't want to jump the gun onthis, but there's a very
specific reason they call itZionism, and it's because Zion
Zion is where where where thewhere David's covenant is is
made, right?
Right, the Davidic covenant isnow David rules over the 12
tribes of Israel.
This is when Israel, this is thegolden age of of the Davidic
(12:09):
kingdom.
It's like the they they which isman, I was thinking about even
the the golden age of thereformation we were talking
about under Elizabeth, and howthey're calling now under Trump
trying to say it's a golden age.
Like there's so many things.
SPEAKER_02 (12:24):
Yeah, but they use that, they use that all the
time, though.
SPEAKER_00 (12:26):
Yeah, but there was just it was just a lot of things
going through my head when I waslistening to this, but this is
the golden age, the DavidicKingdom, when all the 12 tribes
are together, and you have um uhyou have the Ark of the
Covenant, you have uh so likethis this is this is just like
(12:48):
the the where where the theMosaic Covenant was just for the
for for Israel and was uh likeit was a very nationalistic
covenant.
When you betrayed by by themright away, literally
immediately.
Yeah, the golden calf happens,then you have you have all those
(13:08):
prefigurements of even when theuh the serpents are biting them,
the serpents are biting them,and God tells Moses to go make
go make a you guys are solearned.
Learn it.
We're gonna get somewhere.
I promise.
I know I'm stumbling over mything because I look, you have
to understand that this is athis is gonna be a two-hour show
(13:29):
off the top of our heads with nonotes written.
We just listen to this thing,and we're kind of doing it on
the fly, so bear with us alittle bit.
But I have places I want to gowith it, and I'm hoping you guys
stick with it.
Um, so um, after after David,you have Solomon, and then after
Solomon, you have what is it,Rehoboam and Jeroboam?
Jeroboam is the one who breakshe's in the north, he's so
(13:52):
there's there's 12 tribes, anduh Jeroboam goes against the
southern two tribes.
So that this is uh essentiallythe point.
When we talk about Jews today,all Jews are Israelites, but not
all Israelites are Jews, becausethe Israelites are the 12 tribes
of Israel, so the the 12 tribesof Israel make up Israel, the
(14:16):
southern two tribes are Judahand Benjamin.
So when we talk in in the moderncontext of Jews, yeah, those
Jews are Israelites, but thereare the 10 northern tribes are
also Israelites.
Now, the 10 northern tribesrevolt against the southern
tribes, they go off and they aremuch wealthier.
SPEAKER_02 (14:35):
It's for where we want to go later in the story,
it's important to note that theybreak under uh Raya Bohm, who is
a tyrant.
Like he really is uh being abastard to everyone, yeah.
You know, so it's understandableum why they kind of harden their
(14:58):
hearts against Raya Bohem.
SPEAKER_00 (15:01):
He uh like they come to him and they they they uh
they're they're like begging himfor mercy.
They're like uh like your fatherlaid a heavy burden on us.
Um your father laid a heavyburden on us.
Can you please lighten theburden?
He goes, My father's my littlewhat does he say?
He's like, my little pinky isbigger than my father's junk,
(15:25):
essentially, is what he says tothem.
He goes, You think his burdenwas heavy, wait until you feel
my burden.
That's what he says in responseto them.
So that that that kind of bringsa little perspective into Christ
saying, Come to me, all who areheavy burdened, and I will give
you let and I will give yourest.
Like that that's what Christ'sgetting at when he says that.
Like he's actually saying, he'sbringing a call back to to Ray
(15:47):
of Ohm and he's saying, All youwho are heavy burdened, come to
me and I will give you rest.
Because they go to Rahboam andthey beg him, please, our burden
is so heavy.
And he goes, Yeah, I'm gonnashow you a heavy burden.
And he may and he like doublestheir their workload and their
taxes, and he's it's prettyawful to them, right?
So then the the 10 northerntribes break off.
SPEAKER_02 (16:06):
Now, when they break off, they're they no longer have
the temple, they don't have theydon't have the they basically,
you know, the especially whenwell the Levites, the the
Levitical priesthood, theLevites stay with the the
southern kingdom, right?
So they lose the priesthood,they lose the temple.
SPEAKER_00 (16:26):
So now the southern two tribes get very prideful
during this period because theyhave the temple, they have they
still have the covenant.
And ten northern tribes end upmixing in idolatry and they
start doing some wacky stuff.
(16:47):
So this is when this is the timeperiod when um God wants Jonah
to go and preach to Nineveh.
Okay, so um God calls Jonah andtells Jonah to go and and preach
to Nineveh, and Jonah doesn'twant to do it because Nineveh is
Assyria, and Jonah knows if I goand preach to Nineveh, they're
(17:11):
going to repent, and then God'sgonna use them to bring judgment
on the northern kingdom becauseJonah's a prophet from the
northern kingdom, and a lot ofthe prophets weren't in the
northern kingdom at that yeah,yeah, trying to call them back,
like they're they're all tryingto try to call them the northern
kingdom being named Israel, bythe way.
(17:32):
Um, so uh let me let me see.
I so we've done this, but I'veI've read this before on the
show, but if you guys are new tothe show, you've never heard
this.
This is actually an amazingthing that's that's happening
here.
So if if you remember thePharisees come to Jesus and they
and they say, Give us a sign,and Jesus says, Uh, an evil and
wicked generation demands asign.
(17:52):
The only sign you're gonna getis the sign of Jonah.
What Jesus is doing there isactually really crazy.
So um, Jonah's a prophet fromthe northern kingdom of Israel.
He received a command from theLord to warn the great city of
Nineveh about their comingjudgment.
Nineveh was the capital ofAssyria, a Gentile nation.
Instead of obeying God, Jonahfled.
(18:13):
He sailed on a ship to escapefrom his task.
While on the ship, God cast agreat storm upon them.
Jonah knew he was he was thecause of the storm and told the
crew of the ship to throw himoverboard.
We tend to think of Jonah as acoward, afraid to carry out the
will of God.
That isn't the case.
Um, Jonah didn't want to bringGod's message to Nineveh because
God was preparing Nineveh towipe out the northern kingdom of
(18:34):
Israel, who had becomedisobedient and sinful.
Jonah wasn't a coward.
He saw that God was preparingNineveh to bring judgment on the
northern kingdom and wasprepared to die for his
countrymen rather than help theAssyrians destroy his kinsmen.
After the crew threw himoverboard, Jonah was swallowed
by a giant fish for three daysuntil he was vomited up on dry
land.
The important part of Jonah'sthree days in the belly of the
(18:55):
fish is what Jonah prays whilehe's in there.
Jonah doesn't describe theintestines of a fish, he
describes being in the womb ofSheol.
Uh, and then this is from Jonah.
He says, And I said, I am castaway out of the sight of thy
eyes, but yet I sh I shall seethy holy temple again.
The waters encompass the waterscompass me about even to the
(19:15):
soul.
The deep hath closed me roundabout, the sea hath covered my
head.
I should have I shouldn't havepicked the dewy rings.
You want me to know I got it, Igot it.
I went down to the lowest partsof the mountains, the bars of
the earth have shut me upforever, and thou wilt bring up
my life from the corruption, ohmy lord.
So that's just like what Jonah'sdescribing is not the intestines
(19:36):
of a fish, he's describing beingin hell, essentially for three
days.
So the miracle that in the storyof Jonah is not that he survives
in the fish's belly for threedays, it's the opposite, it's
that he dies, right?
Jonah died in the fish, went toSheol, and three days later was
resurrected by God.
He then reluctantly goes toNineveh and gives them God's
message that they will bedestroyed in 40 days.
(19:58):
When news reached the king ofNineveh, he heeded God's warning
and commanded that the wholecity repent and fast.
Because of this, God sparesNineveh.
Forty years later, Assyriacarried out God's judgment and
destroys the northern kingdom.
When Jesus tells the scribes,Pharisees, and Sadducees that
this generation will receive thesign of Jonah, he's showing them
how this is a foreshadowingevent.
(20:18):
In Jonah's day, it was thenorthern kingdom that was
dividing the house of David.
In Jesus' day, it's the scribes,Pharisees, and Sadducees.
They are calling Jesus, the sonof David, a demoniac, saying
that he gets his power fromBeelzebel himself.
They are on the brink ofcommitting the unpardonable sin,
blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
So they're the new northernkingdom of Jesus' day.
(20:39):
Rome is the new Assyria, andJesus is the new Jonah.
Jesus would rather die to sparehis kinsmen, even though they
are sinful.
But he rises and the gospel goesout to the nation of the
Gentiles, who will bringjudgment upon the house of
Israel and Jesus' ownergeneration.
The temple was destroyed 40years later by Rome, just as it
was destroyed by Assyria 40years after Jonah.
(21:00):
Jesus is the new Jonah, thePharisees are the new northern
kingdom, and after three days,the gospel will go out to extend
mercy, grace, and forgiveness tothe arch enemies so that God can
use them as he used Nineveh.
An evil generation demands asign, and Jesus gives it to
them.
Two chapters later in Matthew16, Peter makes his confession
about Jesus being the Christ.
And in response, Jesus said tohim, Blessed are you, Simon, son
(21:23):
of Jonah, for flesh and bloodhas not revealed this to you,
but my father who is in heaven.
So this is this what I'm aboutto tell you.
This is I don't know how to backthis up, but I I read this
somewhere.
Peter is really the son ofJohan, the son of John, not
Jonah.
But Jesus says to him, Simon,son of Jonah.
Simon has become Peter, thespiritual son of Jesus, the new
(21:46):
Jonah.
This and only thing I'm saying Iread was that Peter's father's
name is Jon, not Jonah, but itmakes sense, right?
So Peter's really the son ofJohan, not Jonah.
So but Jesus says to him, Simon,son of Jonah.
Simon has become Peter, thespiritual son of Jesus, the new
Jonah.
This is significant because itis more Old Testament Davidic
typology.
(22:06):
When the son of David wasanointed, he became the son of
God by grace.
Now Jesus, the son of God bynature, has become the son of
David through divine grace, andthe anointing of the spirit at
baptism.
The transfiguration in the nextchapter reveals he is the true
Messiah.
So Simon calls Jesus theChristos, son of the living God,
and Jesus answered, You arePetrus, the rock, the son of
(22:26):
Jonah.
Jesus names him rock because awise man builds his house on
rock.
He does not tell Peter to buildhim a church, he tells him, Upon
this rock I will build mychurch.
As the son of the of as the sonof the new Jonah, Peter receives
the keys to the house of theDavidic kingdom.
Matthew 16, 18 is a directreference to the Isaiah prophecy
about the house of David.
And on that day I will summon myservant Eliakim.
(22:48):
I will clothe him with yourrobe, gird him with your sash,
confer on him your authority.
He shall be a father to theinhabitants of Jerusalem and to
the house of Judah.
I will place the key of thehouse of David on his shoulder.
What he opens, no one will shut.
What he shuts, no one will open.
This is directly, you are Peter,and upon this rock I will build
my church.
What you what you uh I will giveyou the keys to the house to the
(23:10):
kingdom of heaven.
What you bind on earth will bebound in heaven, what you loose
on earth will be loose inheaven.
That's where all of this imageryis coming from, and this harkens
back to this whole thing that'shappening with Assyria and the
destruction of the northernkingdom.
Now, during this time, beforethe destruction of the kingdom,
the northern kingdom is muchwealthier than the southern
(23:32):
kingdom.
But the southern kingdom, whichis Judah and Benjamin, they are
so prideful because they havethe temple, they have the
covenants fill, and they'relooking down upon the northern
kingdom.
They're idolaters, they're this,they're that.
And they're right.
(23:56):
But there's an important lessonin this because not only is the
northern kingdom destroyed, butso is the southern kingdom.
SPEAKER_02 (24:03):
Later on.
SPEAKER_00 (24:04):
Later on, and this is the Babylonian captivity,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (24:08):
So the point is you want to go over what happens to
the northern kingdom and thoseten tribes, and go ahead, you
take that.
And the way the Assyriansworked, what they would do to
(24:32):
quell uh uprisings, rebellions,was when they would conquer a
people, they would disperse thatpeople entirely throughout the
remainder of their empire, andthen repopulate that area with
the mixture of the rest of theirpeople.
So the the ten northern tribeswere not only stripped away from
their home, but broken andspread apart all over the
(24:53):
empire, to where within twogenerations they are no
different from just the rest ofthe Assyrian Empire, they have
become Gentiles in that thatsense.
SPEAKER_00 (25:18):
So the but but the the the only thing I was getting
at is the the the pride of theof the southern kingdom, I just
saw such an important lesson init for us, especially trads.
Like we we especially the tradswho kind of have this this
haughtiness because you thinkyou have the traditional
(25:40):
liturgy.
SPEAKER_02 (25:42):
Like the and and this includes Ant and I of
course, yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_00 (25:47):
All I was thinking about was myself in this.
Like I was literally justthinking of myself when I was
doing this, and I was like, man,like I I really I really think
this is something I need to talkto the people who listen to our
show about because I'm veryworried about this.
Like, there's there's a sense ofpride that comes with when you
when you are a trad Catholic,you think you have, you know,
well, we have the thetraditional faith, and we and we
(26:10):
have the the the traditionalsacraments and we're not uh
falling to modernism and allthese things.
But the problem is when you'reprideful, God will humble you,
man.
SPEAKER_02 (26:23):
And if you if you're too prideful, you're not you're
not looking for that, you're notprepared for it, you're not
ready for it.
Just like the the southernkingdom of Judah wasn't ready
for the Babylonians.
SPEAKER_00 (26:33):
At all.
They did not expect God'sjudgment to come upon them.
And there is such an importantaspect of just having a humility
of heart through everything andand not being too confident in
anything, and thinking you haveyou know you know better than
everybody else.
It's just the the there has tobe an aspect of humility that we
(26:54):
all really need to keep,especially in this time of
crisis.
Because I look, I uh I I look atI look at some people who are so
confident that this isn't thePope, and this is you know, and
it's like, man, I don't thinkany of us can possibly
understand what is happeningright now.
None of us can.
God is doing somethingmysterious right now, and for
(27:16):
any of us to think we knowexactly what's happening, we're
nuts because nobody knows howhow prophecy is fulfilled until
it's fulfilled, fulfilled.
It's one of those things you seein hindsight, but as it's
happening, nobody knows.
We can make some guesses at it,we can try to read the signs of
the times, things like that, butthere's no way to know exactly
(27:38):
how things are going to playout.
So you so you you always have tohave this attitude of God,
please don't let me miss you.
Like, I don't I don't want toend up like the Pharisees, where
you know they thought they wereserving God by killing God.
That's that like that's wheretheir pride was.
They were they well this youthink about especially when you
(28:04):
when you talk like because I'veI've seen people say about the
Antichrist, well, no, he's gonnabe from the tribe of Benjamin,
and they they list off all thethings that he's going to be.
And it's like, man, you think ifit was that easy, there would
just be a checklist.
Oh, well, this can't be himbecause he's this, he's that,
and the father said this.
It's I I promise you, thisdeception, if it comes in our
lifetime, will be one thatdeceives the elect.
(28:26):
So have a humble heart and justsay, God, please do not let me
miss you, because the religiousauthorities of Christ's time are
the ones who should have beenthe first to recognize the
Messiah, and they didn't, andit's gonna be similar in our
time.
The religious authorities, ourreligious authorities, are not
going to catch it, they're gonnamiss it because they are so
(28:47):
worldly, and we can be veryworldly too, and we think we're
being holy because we pray therosary every day, and we do
that.
Just I'm telling you, all of ushave to have a humility about us
right now because we don't knowwhat the heck God is doing, and
we don't want to miss it.
Um, so then uh the there'ssomething also that is important
(29:09):
here is what God does when thecovenant is broken.
Um, so if you go to Deuteronomy,um, and when all these things
come upon you, the blessings andthe curse, which I have set
before you, and you call them tomind among all the nations where
the Lord your God has drivenyou.
So this is when you because youbreak the curse, the punishment
(29:30):
for the curse is you get drivenout to the nations.
Um and return to the Lord yourGod, you and your children, and
obey his voice and all that Icommand you to this day with all
your heart and with all yoursoul.
Then the Lord your God willrestore your fortunes and have
compassion upon you, and he willgather you again from all the
peoples where the Lord your Godhas scattered you.
(29:51):
If your outcasts are in theuttermost parts of heaven, from
there the Lord God will gatheryou, and from there he will
fetch you, and the Lord your Godwill bring you into the land
which your Fathers possess thatyou may possess it, and he will
make you more prosperous andnumerous than your fathers.
And that's in Deuteronomy.
So it's like you you break thecovenant and God disperses you
because that's the punishment.
(30:12):
So what happens is the southernkingdom goes into the Babylonian
exile, the Babylonian captivity,but it's only for 70 years.
And then they're gathered backinto Israel.
And then they start rebuildingthe temple.
And there's like a series ofthings that happen.
So, like the second temple whenChrist comes, did you did you
(30:34):
know that Herod built this thetemple when of Christ's time?
Like that's the Herodian temple.
Yeah, yeah, that's the Herodiantemple.
And Herod is trying to usurp theright of the Messiah.
And Herod's not even a Jew, likeHerod's an Edomite.
Like, so we watched that videoof uh of uh Netanyahu the other
(30:55):
day saying, like, we must defeatEdom.
Like Herod, Herod's like a swornenemy of the Jews, and he
basically buys his he colludeswith the Romans and he buys his
way into, and he's callinghimself the king of the Jews.
It's and he builds, he's likewhat he's like the grand
architect of of the ancientworld.
Like they say that the theHerodian temple was like more
(31:19):
grand than Solomon's temple, butum which is pretty presumptuous
if you think about it.
Well, it the thing is theHerodian dynasty was actually
like the the Herodian Empire wasbigger than the Davidic Empire,
so like that it kind of bringsin this is you have the zealots
(31:42):
who are trying to kill Herod, Ithink, right?
The zealots were trying to killHerod because they wanted the
Messiah to come.
Like, there's so much there's somuch going on when Christ comes.
It's it it's it there's allthese different factions, and
um, but yeah, like Herod Herodwas trying to usurp that that
authority for being being theDavidic king, and he's not a
(32:04):
descendant of David, which iswhy when he hears the prophecies
of the king coming, like he goesand slaughters all those
innocent children, like it kindof makes that make sense because
he is not even a Jew, right?
And he's sitting on the thronecalling himself the king of the
Jews, and then there's thisprophecy that because look at
the time when Christ comes,there is messianic fervor.
(32:27):
You have the Danielic propheciesthat are lining up to either
like the the they're within 30years, so it's either Christ is
born in the year 1 AD or or He'sborn in the year 33 AD.
Like that's how it's lining up,and meanwhile, he's born in 1
A.D., you know, because we judgetime by this by his coming, but
(32:47):
it's like that is this messianicfervor that is going on in
Israel at this time and inJerusalem, and they're all
waiting for the Messiah, andthat's why like Barabbas is a
false messiah, right?
Barabbas is son of the father,but bar Allah.
He's he's a false Christ, he'strying to try.
(33:10):
I I'm I think he was like hemight have he might have been
like a zealot or something likethat.
SPEAKER_02 (33:16):
Yeah, he was a zealot who was who committed
murder, right?
SPEAKER_00 (33:20):
Yeah, he committed murder, he murdered a Roman
soldier.
It's like there's there's justthis fervor going on when Christ
comes.
So when he does come, you nowhave the the the Pharisees are
are they they want their veryspecific type of messiah.
(33:42):
That's just what they want.
So when you when you get whenyou get to the time Paul is
writing in Romans 9, one of thethings he says is um where did
where did I write it?
Uh he says, um, so okay, so nowokay, so now you're at the time
of Christ.
Now the 10 northern tribes aredispersed amongst the nations,
(34:05):
right?
They are completely just justGentiles at this point.
So the people of Christ's timeare thinking to themselves,
like, how it's not even possibleto unite the 12 tribes, like
it's a it's not even apossibility.
So, like, God made thesepromises.
Did the word of God fail?
Like, that's actually whatthey're saying.
Like, did like that, how couldthis promise even ever be
(34:28):
revealed?
So, what Paul's doing in Romans9 through 11 is putting his case
forth that not only not only didthe word of God not fail, but
Paul is not just the apostle tothe Gentiles.
Paul's whole mission is to bringthe lost sheep of Israel back
into the fold by going to thenations where they were
(34:51):
dispersed, and it's like veryspecific where Paul goes.
Like Paul goes to the placeswhere those 10 northern tribes
were dispersed to in order tobring those children of Israel
back in.
So Paul says in Romans 9, hesays, But it is not as though
the word of God had failed, fornot all who are descended from
Israel belong to Israel, whichis a weird thing to say, right?
(35:12):
But I I when I read that, I wasthinking in terms of the new
covenant promise that we havewith Peter, that the gates of
hell will not prevail.
Like that's the first thing thatcame to my mind when I read
that.
It's like, I because I thinkwe're going to get to a point
where the church might get somessy that we will question has
(35:35):
the word of God failed?
Because it will appear as thoughthe gates of hell have
prevailed.
It's going to appear like thegates of hell prevailed, and
we're going to have to keepfaith during that time.
And that's the importance ofbeing humble through this whole
thing and not being proud andthinking because you have this
(35:56):
liturgy, you're gonna catch it.
Because if we lose everything,if all the sacraments are taken
away, because if you go back toour lady of Akita, what does she
say?
She says, The only thing you'llhave left is the sign left by my
son and the rosary.
And if something like that comesabout, like the sign left by my
son, I don't think that's themass, I think that's the cross.
SPEAKER_02 (36:16):
Well, and in in the book of the apocalypse, the the
fathers interpret that to youknow to read that we'll we'll
lose the sacrifice of the massthroughout the whole world for
three and a half years, forthree and a half years, right?
SPEAKER_00 (36:30):
So don't get so proud that you have the Latin
mass and all well, I'm well I'mSSPX, I'm never gonna lose it,
or I'm a Cedivic contest, I'mnever gonna lose it, or
whatever.
You have a double.
I want to get into Zionism a bithere because what you have now
(37:03):
is the the covenant curse isyou're dispersed amongst the
nations, right?
But what I read there is thatGod will gather you back in when
you when you what what what wasit?
He's like when all these thingscome upon you, the blessings and
the curse which I've set beforeyou and um what what Han says uh
(37:28):
in regard to this is you knowpart of the covenant was that
they had a duty to go out andgather the rest of the nations
into the covenant, and theydidn't.
SPEAKER_02 (37:38):
Well, sorry, but that's part of the covenant, and
it will be accomplished one ortwo.
Whether you want to or not, ifyou don't go out to the nations
and gather them in, well, sorry,you've been sent out and
dispersed among the nations, andnow the church will use you to
gather the nations in, and andthat applies to today, too.
SPEAKER_00 (37:56):
So, look, during the Babylonian captivity, well,
first of all the 10 northerntribes were lost for 700 years,
like 700 years.
They were lost, right?
The the the southern two tribeswere only banished for 70 years,
and then they got to come backin.
But what we're dealing with nowis a 2,000-year banishment,
(38:17):
well, 1960-year banishment, or1948, right?
1948 year banishment.
And God starts to allow hispeople to gather back into
Israel.
And I asked Rob the other day,so I can't I can't ask him now.
I would have liked to ask you onon the fly because it's an
interesting question.
Like, because we did that showthe other day with Gavin and uh
(38:39):
and and Scott Hahn, and we got abunch of comments of people
saying, You guys just don'tunderstand Zionism.
Zionism is just the Jews sayingthat they have a right to
self-determination and a placeto and a right to have land.
SPEAKER_02 (38:51):
Yeah, that's the problem, guys.
Don't you get it?
SPEAKER_00 (38:54):
But that's not really what Zionism is, anyway.
Like, if it was just the Jewshad a right to land, it's like
we we offered them to have likeI think after after World War
II, they offered them to haveland in in a couple of places,
right?
But they they insisted it was inIsrael.
SPEAKER_02 (39:08):
So, yeah, in in early Zionism, the big
discussion was where where arewe gonna build a nation?
Is it gonna be in the in the youknow the the pale of pale of
settl settlement in what's nowUkraine?
Is it gonna be uh in SouthAmerica somewhere?
They they thought of havingcolonies down in like Argentina
and Chile.
(39:29):
Um, they thought aboutMadagascar, but eventually they
settled on on Palestine.
SPEAKER_00 (39:39):
They they they didn't settle on Palestine, they
wanted Zion.
SPEAKER_02 (39:45):
Well, what I mean is yes, there were Zionists, early
Zionists, who obviously werepushing for that among the
options, and and the the world,um world Zionist Congress chose
that in the end.
SPEAKER_00 (39:59):
So so the I I had a conversation with Gideon the
other day.
Um, I sp I spoke with Gideon forabout an hour, and like my heart
goes out to Gideon because he hereally has a love for the Jewish
people and he wants them toconvert so bad.
Like you could just tell whenyou talk with him, like he's a
he's a little confused about alot of this stuff too.
(40:20):
Like, I my heart goes out tohim.
I know he has a heart of gold,and he's trying to figure out a
way to bring the Jews into thenew covenant because he knows
they need to be saved.
Like, he's not he's he's he'snot one of the Jews who because
there are there are some of theum what do they call themselves?
(40:43):
Uh uh what what what HebrewHebrew Catholics or something?
Yeah, is that what they sothere's some Hebrew Catholics
who are actually saying that theJews being allowed back into
Israel is is is a fulfillment ofGod's prophecy, and this is a
good thing.
And the problem with this wholething is it is a carnal reading
(41:03):
of the scriptures.
Like we all get mad at theProtestants because they
misinterpret scripture.
What is happening with Zionismis a carnal reading of the
scriptures, and it is from thepit of hell, it is so demonic.
So if you even go to Psalm 2,what is Zionism?
(41:24):
Why is it called Zionism?
It's called Zionism because youhave to listen here.
Why do the nations conspire andthe peoples plot in vain?
The kings of the earth setthemselves and the rulers take
counsel together against theLord and his anointed, saying,
Let us burst their bonds asunderand cast their cords from us.
He who sits in the heavenslaughs, the Lord is uh uh has
(41:45):
them in derision.
But this is the important part.
Then he will speak to them inhis wrath and terrify them in
his fury, saying, I have set myking on Zion, my holy hill.
I will tell them of the decreeof the Lord.
He said to me, You are my son,today I have begotten you.
Ask of me, and I will make thenations your heritage and the
ends of the earth yourpossession.
You shall break them with a rodof iron and dash them in pieces
(42:05):
like a potter's vessel.
This is what the point ofZionism is.
There is a messianic fervor inIsrael now, like there was in
the con time of Christ.
When I spoke to Gideon the otherday, he goes, Look, when it
started out, you know, this wasa minority thought, like a
minority opinion.
Um, and there was mostly likesecular Jews coming in.
(42:28):
And Pope Benedict talked aboutthis in 2018, well after he
stepped down, and he was he wasgetting a little worried about
the way Catholics were getting alittle too Zionist.
He was like, Look, we can wecould talk about like you know,
Israel being a secular state,not saying that they can't be
religious, like think you know,it's it's fine that they're
they're Jews, but like we can'ttalk about Jews in a Jewish
(42:50):
state because of theimplications of it.
Now, I heard Father Rippiger onwith Tim Gordon the other day,
and Father Rippiger was saying,Well, you know, there's a and I
I love Father Rippiger.
Please don't think I'm sayinganything negative about him
here.
SPEAKER_02 (43:06):
I just have to prepare a clip.
SPEAKER_00 (43:09):
I just don't think Father Rippiger even was, I
don't think he was right onthis.
He said, uh, you know, um, thethe reason the church couldn't
support a state of Israel isbecause there's a lot to do
with, you know, how long apeople are in a land, and if
they're if they're not there fora hundred years, you can't
really, you know, give supportbecause they don't have like an
(43:30):
inheritance to the land, thingslike that.
And it's like, no, that is notwhy the church could not support
a Jewish state in Israel.
There is like the church fullyunderstood what this would mean.
The church has always understoodthat if the people of it the
Jewish people come back into theland of Israel, that is the
(43:50):
beginning of the kingdom ofSatan on earth.
Like Maudsley's not wrong aboutthat.
This stuff is very serious.
You're talking about Godallowing now.
SPEAKER_02 (44:00):
The thing is, they may have their because Zion is
supposed to be Zion true Zion.
Is the Zion Kingdom of Heaven,which is the Catholic Church,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (44:11):
It's the Catholic Church.
Like, listen to what that says.
It says, I have set my king onZion, my holy hill, I will tell
of the decree of the Lord.
He said to me, You are my son.
Today I have begotten you.
That is Jesus Christ, he is theMessiah.
They read this with a carnalreading, and they think their
king will be installed in thisland.
It's an aversion.
(44:31):
There is no like this is acarnal reading of the
scriptures.
This is so demonic.
It's one of those.
Oh man, I we should do this onlocals.
(44:52):
We should bring this over tolocals because I I we need to
talk like this is end of theworld stuff.
It really is.
Like, I'm sorry, guys, but weare talking about end of
potentially end of the worldstuff.
And the thing is, there's a lotthat comes with this, especially
with the stuff that ishappening.
Like, there is not a co this isnot a coincidence that the
(45:13):
Republican Party is in a civilwar right now, and this whole
thing, and and Nick like NickFluentes is bringing about the
apocalypse, essentially.
By bringing this conversation,they're just using him, they're
using him as as as a tool tobring this conversation to the
public because they want it inthe public.
(45:33):
Us talking about this, they wantthis, they want this.
That's why, dude.
Do you remember when we do wantit?
Do you remember when we used totalk about this topic?
We used to have to call them theAmish.
SPEAKER_02 (45:43):
Yeah, it's been a while since we've had to use
that term, actually.
SPEAKER_00 (45:46):
Like you think about a couple of years ago, we used
to have to say the Amish.
SPEAKER_02 (45:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (45:51):
Um, look, do you for a second think Ben Shapiro is
not a hardcore Zionist in thathe is like waiting a Messiah?
He is waiting for the Messiah,he thinks he's in the messianic
age.
Yeah, for sure he does.
I don't know.
(46:11):
He is fervently waiting for themessiah right now.
And the thing is, it is thedominant thought in Israel right
now, it is not a minoritythought anymore.
This is a very, very seriousthing that we're talking about,
and it's all about a carnalreading of the scriptures where
they read prophecies from theold testament that are fulfilled
(46:32):
in Christ, and they thinkbecause this is all about
crushing the nations with a rod,their messiah will crush the
nations with a rod, and thisleads to the antichrist, like it
really does.
And the thing is, if if we gotto do this on locals, just
because this is this is beforewe do that.
SPEAKER_02 (46:53):
We should probably uh mention our sponsor.
SPEAKER_00 (46:56):
Yes, absolutely.
We love recus and sellers, so wedo need to mention them.
But this is um this is this iswhere like I'm going to start
getting into some of my my myinsights I got from the Han talk
because we went through we wentthrough the story and the
narrative and stuff, but some ofthe things that I was thinking
(47:17):
when I was listening to this andjust the the the the way this
thing seems to be unfolding isit's a lot.
So we uh Reggie Sincellers.
Um Regison Sellers, you go youuse code base to checkout for
10% off.
Reguson Cellars is a winery outin Washington State, they've
(47:38):
been our sponsor for almost ayear now.
We took a little break in thesummer because they they
couldn't uh ship in the in thehot months.
But while winter's here, westill have them.
We'd love it if you guys couldhelp support them.
They're an awesome Catholicfamily.
They love our show, they lovewhat we do, they love that Rob
can't pronounce their name.
SPEAKER_02 (47:54):
Um that's ironic is I can pronounce Manashevitz
better than I can requisite.
SPEAKER_00 (47:59):
Yeah, it's kind of again that it is bizarre.
SPEAKER_02 (48:01):
Demonic inversion right there, folks.
Um we promise they're notManashevitz.
We do.
SPEAKER_00 (48:08):
We do, we really should do like have like a a
better ad read for them becauseI kind of do this off the top of
my head.
I don't I don't read it, butthey they also ship uh different
fruits and things like that.
But like it's important tosupport Catholic companies.
SPEAKER_02 (48:24):
Unbelievable.
She says I can pronounceManishevitz better because of my
hair.
SPEAKER_00 (48:29):
It's the juke, bro.
Um, it's important to supportcompanies that that actually,
like especially a show likeours, because the interesting
thing is we're the only onesactually talking about this
stuff, and it's bizarre to mebecause well, it's not bizarre
to me.
There are much smarter peoplewho should be talking about
this.
SPEAKER_02 (48:47):
We don't have big sponsors that are don't want us
to talk about this.
SPEAKER_00 (48:50):
That's why we talk about it.
But there are very few shows,there are very few companies
that will sponsor us, andRecucent is one of the very few.
There's one other companyasking, and we're probably gonna
do um Black Monk Rosary soon.
But as of now, Recucent Sellers,the only show, the only company
brave enough to support thisshow and the things we talk
(49:10):
about.
SPEAKER_02 (49:11):
And if you yourself do not drink, buy it as gifts
for Christmas.
SPEAKER_00 (49:15):
Christmas is fun.
Thanksgiving, bring a bottle ofwine to Thanksgiving, guys.
Yeah, bring a bottle of wine toThanksgiving.
That's that's a great idea.
Like, think about the gift youcould bring to your family on
Thanksgiving.
Buy a bottle of wine forThanksgiving.
You know what?
I'm I'm gonna run that for thenext couple episodes we do, even
if they didn't tell us to.
This is a great Thanksgivinggift, it's also a great
Christmas gift.
SPEAKER_02 (49:35):
I wonder if they can give you some bottles before
Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER_00 (49:39):
You think it's too soon, too, too late?
Okay, either way.
SPEAKER_02 (49:42):
Well, I'm just saying for me myself.
I'm we're traveling.
SPEAKER_00 (49:46):
We should have been pumping that all all of
November.
What were we thinking?
Should have been pumping thatall of November.
SPEAKER_02 (49:52):
Either way, remember to do it at the end of the show.
SPEAKER_00 (49:55):
Um, so um, let's see, Irish Catholic last.
The problem is people think incarnal terms, Christ said, You
are of your father, the devil.
This isn't an earthly plan, itis the demonic plan contrived
and executed by the evil onebeginning in the garden.
That so we're gonna get into alot of that.
Like, this is the it is strangeto me, though, that we're the
(50:18):
show talking about this becauseI'm a freaking high school
dropout and a constructionworker, and you're an accountant
from Minnesota, and there aremuch smarter people who should
be talking about this.
And I'll be honest, like ScottHahn should be talking about
this because he knows the story,and he understands the
implications of what's happeningright now, and it's the reason
(50:41):
he would probably never come onour show because I would have to
press him on these things.
It's this is this is deep stuff.
It's like you're God allowingthem to come back into that land
as apocalyptic undertone, likethere's no way around seeing it
that way, and then when you addin all the things we're seeing
happening in the world rightnow, there's no other way to see
(51:03):
this than as being part of theeschaton because and America
plays a very big part in it, avery big part, and things things
seem to be heating up.
So, we're gonna go over to theother side and we're gonna talk
about it over there.
Um, I probably should give mywife uh a login for uh local.
SPEAKER_02 (51:26):
Just give her your login.
SPEAKER_00 (51:28):
Oh Nicole, if you want to watch it still, text me.
I'll give you I'll give you thelocals code, the locals login.
SPEAKER_02 (51:34):
Uh uh, let me all right up the banner to locals.
SPEAKER_00 (51:38):
So if you guys are not locals members, come over
there and join us.
Um I'd be interested to hear youguys' feedback because this this
one is um this is this is uhthis is just from listening to
this whole thing, all I couldthink about was like the
implications for today.
So that that's kind of what Iwant to get into on the other
(51:59):
side.
And this this may be um amulti-part series where the next
episode we may actually gothrough Romans and kind of break
down what what what Paul issaying in the in those verses
and stuff and try to break itdown a little bit, but I mean it
it's a very uh oh Nicole wantsto log in.
(52:21):
Um just come down and grab myphone.
You can watch it on my phone.
I could have just said it.
I texted it.
She's clearly watching.
Just come downstairs, Nicole.
I'll give you my phone and I'lllog in for you.
SPEAKER_02 (52:37):
Oh, good news, good news, everyone.
Requisant sellers does offernext day air, which I'm doing
literally right now to get mailfor or to get wine for
Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER_00 (52:50):
Um hold on, I have to I have to actually get on the
you're gonna have to come on togo here.
Wait, I'm giving my wife thephone.
Hang on.
Wait, it's not playing though.
How do I wait?
No, no, no, don't go nowhere.
All right, Rob, take us out.
I'll give her the phone.
SPEAKER_01 (53:06):
Hold on, I gotta buy my wine.
Wait, I need to make sure to getit for Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER_00 (53:12):
Nicole, Nicole never watches the show, so this is you
do not watches.
I do.
Um, all right, hold on.
SPEAKER_02 (53:23):
Okay, well, I'm gonna start killing streams.
So, everyone, if you're watchingon YouTube, move over to locals
because I'm killing the streamshere in just a second.
SPEAKER_00 (53:31):
I gave her my iPad.
Uh, it was so bad.
I wonder why we're the only onestalking about this.
We're the most unprofessionalshow in the world.
Uh it's the end of the world.
Order your wine now, they'resaying on.