Kelsey Koehler, CAA bravely shares the darker moments of her life, including a personal struggle with alcohol that led to 2 DUIs a week apart. Her story is a beacon for CAAs, illuminating the stark reality of substance misuse in our community. Her proactive approach to recovery and commitment to transparency with the Missouri state medical board and her own support circle exemplify the profound strength it takes to rebuild a life.
In our candid discussion, we move beyond Kelsey's individual story to address mental health in healthcare, unraveling the critical need for empathy and connection among CAA colleagues. This episode stands as an invitation to the medical community, especially our fellow CAAs, to embrace vulnerability, foster a culture of openness, and extend a hand to those silently battling personal demons. Kelsey's story will resonate deeply with anyone who has ever faced—or could face—the daunting intersection of personal hardship and professional responsibility. Join us as we lay bare the struggles that unite us and the strength we can find in each other.
Connect with Kelsey @Kelsey.jantsch@yahoo.com
IG @kelseyjo333
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mary Jeanne (00:00):
My life is either going to get really bad or I've
got to change just abouteverything in it.
Welcome to the AwakenedAnesthetist Podcast, the first
podcast to highlight the CAAexperience.
I'm your host, mary Jean, andI've been a certified
anesthesiologist assistant forclose to two decades.
(00:22):
Throughout my journey andstruggles, I've searched for
guidance that includes my uniqueperspective as a CAA.
At one of my lowest points, Idecided to turn my passion for
storytelling and my belief thatthe CAA profession is uniquely
able to create a life by designinto a podcast.
If you are a practicing CAA,current AA student or someone
(00:47):
who hopes to be one, I encourageyou to stick around and
experience the power of being ina community filled with voices
who sound like yours, sharingexperiences you never believed
possible.
I know you will find yourselfhere at the Awakened Anesthetist
Podcast.
Welcome in.
Hello all my fellow CAAs and AAstudents.
(01:11):
Welcome to the podcast andwelcome to this really special
episode.
Honestly, I'm really proud ofthis episode.
I'm proud of Kelsey and I'mproud that she trusted me enough
to share her story with me.
It's really a big moment forour profession, I think, in the
history of us to have someonecome forward and share the full
(01:35):
spectrum of what it means to bea CAA and what it means to be a
full spectrum human being whilebeing a CAA.
It's the first time I know ofthat a CAA has really gone on
record to share so much, and Ihope that it inspires us all to
(01:57):
share more of ourselves andknowing that there's so much
community and connection and wayforward through life's hard
things when you reach out forhelp, when you share that you're
struggling, and that we as aprofession could move forward in
that direction, reallysupporting and helping each
other, that certainly might takeaway from this episode and I'm
(02:20):
really interested to hear how itresonates with all of you.
So I do want to give you just alittle bit of background on
Kelsey Koehler.
She graduated from theUniversity of Missouri, kansas
City AA program in 2017.
She currently practices in StLouis, missouri, for a private
group.
She works PRN.
She said she mostly worksweekends and she tries to work
(02:44):
as many hours as she can eachweekend because she's still
commuting from Kansas City.
That's about a three and a halfhour drive to St Louis every
weekend to work and she sharesin her process how she ended up
living in Kansas City butworking in St Louis and her
journey moving through thelowest points in her life, and I
(03:05):
think you all are going to getwhat you need from this episode,
and so I just want to have usget into it and share Kelsey
Koehler's story with all of you.
Okay, how are you feelingnervous, or yes, yeah, I know, I
know.
Totally normal.
(03:25):
I mean, especially, obviouslyyou're sharing something so
vulnerable.
But also, everyone else hasalways been nervous and by the
end they're like, okay, we gotinto it, like yeah, I'm really
grateful to have you, and Ithink it will come out through
the episode how we know eachother.
But yeah, this is sort of wehaven't seen each other for a
number of years, so this is alittle bit of a reunion, so it's
(03:48):
good to see you and I think Iwould like everyone to get to
know you through the rapid fireround.
I really enjoy these.
I hope everyone else isenjoying them.
I just think it's interestingto hear about the person and
just sort of everyone's littlequirks and oddities and sort of
what makes them unique to startus off.
So if you're game for that, Iwould love to start there.
Yeah, okay.
(04:10):
So this may not be super short,but I would love for you to
describe, if you can, yourperfect day.
Oh, that's a hard one.
Pax and I love I don't know, welove going on adventures soon.
So Pax is my son turning seventoday.
Actually, it's his birthday.
(04:31):
Oh, wow, yeah, so I don't know.
We wake up, chill.
I like.
There's about five restaurants.
I like Get something to eatfrom there, and then all the
neighborhood kids play footballand Matt and I always go out
there and play with them.
Yeah.
Just that and you know.
Just beautiful weather, somesunshine, like we had the other
(04:53):
day.
But Yep, now, listening to that, would you qualify yourself as
an extrovert or an introvert,because that sounds a little
like a homebody which I can getbehind.
Oh, 100%, yeah, introvert I am.
Yeah, I have forced myself tobe an extrovert for my son, but
no, I would.
I'd rather be home.
Anything home it's great.
(05:13):
Yeah, yeah, you're one of thefew people I think you might be
the first person that has said Iam 100% an introvert.
Yeah, I mainly do 12s plus atwork and yeah, by the end of the
day, I've talked myself out.
Yeah, you're tapped out, yeah.
(05:35):
Okay, what about this one?
What would you be if you werenot a CAA?
Money was no issue, everythingwas set and you could do
anything you wanted.
What would you do for work?
Ride horses teach kids how toride horses.
Yeah, I would still becompeting.
Yeah, you did that.
Okay, so I'm just going to likenot bury the lead.
Kelsey was one of my students.
(05:55):
She went to UMKC, which is theAA school here in Kansas City,
missouri, and she was one of mystudents.
Remind me your history withhorses.
I have forgotten, but you'vetold me before I grew up riding
them competed in 100 jumpercompetitions I actually went to
(06:16):
I'll preface this with.
I started wanting to be ananesthesiologist, specifically
cardiac.
Very young.
One of my dad's friends that hewent to high school with was
one, and I often went to like,take your diet or work day with
him to go see, because that waswhen there was less hip hop and
things like that, and so I couldgo see cardiac surgeries.
(06:37):
He's the one that got me intothis.
But when I was originally goingaway to college, I got a
scholarship to continuecompeting and riding horses.
So I went out there and waslike this is what I want to do
with my life.
I'm spending my day with horses, brushing horses, riding horses
.
So I took those classes mainlywhen I was out in North Carolina
(07:01):
and then was like oh, wait, asecond, you have to make money
to do this and you don't makemoney.
So, yeah, that's when I cameback and kind of got back on the
path that I had wanted to for along time.
But just, you know, life takesus different ways.
Okay, that's what I now I'mremembering that you had a
(07:22):
college scholarship to ridehorses and then found your way
back to CA.
And also, mind you, this is howconversations with Kelsey and I
go, is that I'll ask her onequestion and then we do.
You know, it's oh which onequick question and then we get
off onto something.
So, yes, I remember many a goodconversation with you in the OR
.
Okay, well, we heard a littlebit about how you found out
(07:42):
about the CA profession.
I want to hear more details, butlet's even go back before that
and I would love for you just toshare about your upbringing,
your family life, your childhood, just anything that stands out
about you know who you were as akid, how you were raised.
Uh, was raised now where I'mraising my son, but very like
good, what do you call it?
(08:03):
Suburb area?
It's a time when money wasreally good to.
Everyone was doing well, myparents own their own business.
They built homes.
My mom did some of the officework, my dad did the other part.
They were always around.
They built their schedulearound what we needed.
I've got two sisters Reallygood childhood, like I said, I
(08:26):
rode horses, I worked.
We all got jobs very early but,yeah, we just had a lot of.
That's how, like I said, I metthe anesthesiologist that ended
up shadowing a lot.
Just there was.
There's a lot of opportunitiesaround here.
So even our high schools, Imean that's why one of my son
going to these schools isthey've got shadowing programs.
(08:48):
They've.
They just have all these careeroriented.
They try and lead you in a goodpath.
Yeah, I had a great childhood.
Are you in the same suburb ofKansas City now like living
right now that you grew up in?
Is that what you're saying?
I'm like three blocks from it.
Yeah, oh, I didn't know that.
Yeah, and we live a block frommy dad, like, and his whole
family.
(09:08):
He's one of 10.
My mom's one of eight majorityare somewhere right here.
Wow, yeah, okay.
So really important to you tobe around family.
And you've mentioned a littlebit about now that cardiac
anesthesiologist with which weboth know.
He's one of the cardiacanesthesiologists who's really
big in the CAA community inMissouri.
(09:30):
He's one of the people rightwho was really instrumental in
getting our legislation passed.
Is that?
Am I right in saying that?
I think so.
Yeah, boots on the ground, kindof important to CAAs?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Okay.
And he was friends with yourdad.
And tell me about how youtransition then from cardiac
(09:50):
anesthesiologist dreams to CAAdreams and kind of leaving
behind maybe some of the otheroptions, which I think is
interesting that we can be goodand right for a lot of things,
but one thing kind of calls tous and give us a little bit of
those details.
Oh, like I said, I shadowed hima lot growing up multiple times.
Love, that that's absolutelywhat I wanted to do.
(10:12):
When it came time to I waspremed and I was taking the MCAT
, he was the one that kept beinglike I'm telling you, you've
said you want to family, you'vesaid you want to like this is
the other path to go.
He kept pushing like do CAA.
And I'm not going to lie to you, even it probably took till the
end of first year where I keptbeing like I don't know, maybe I
(10:36):
will go to med school, like Ithink it was just something that
had been in there so long, um,and I hadn't gotten far enough
into knowing what we did andeverything that it just kept
sticking there, like maybe I'mstill going to do it, I don't
know.
But yeah, then you get intoclinicals and you get in.
Just, I had the opportunity tobe like the first day at a
(10:59):
couple of hospitals newrotations and stuff and it
became very clear I'm I'm veryhappy with the path I took.
Very happy.
Interesting, because I thinkyou have kind of that old story
where did you know about theprofession when you're an
undergrad?
No, okay, I feel like that isthe old story, which is you kind
(11:21):
of find out about it a littlebit later and everyone's
thinking they're going tomedical school, and then it
appears as this diversion ordifferent opportunity away from
the medical school dream, andthen we're all kind of grappling
with oh gee, I thought it wasgoing to be a doctor, not
because I have to be a doctor,but because I thought that was
the only way.
And I just feel like the newversion of that is I want to be
(11:43):
a CAA.
I knew about it in high schooland I also think it feels really
different to get into an AAschool program these days.
I certainly am like I'm glad Igot in in 2006, because I think
it's a lot more work to get intoa program now and you really
have to be super, super suregoing in that that's what you
(12:04):
want.
You know what I mean.
I just think it's different.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I remember you as a newstudent because I think one of
your other passions correct meif I'm wrong at that point was
like fitness and bodybuilding.
Yes, yeah, I did my lastcompetition that that was
(12:24):
December of 15.
And that was right when.
Or I mean December of 14.
And I started January 15.
Yeah, and I just remember youtelling me oh yeah, I get up at
three and I work out and I eat,you know, get all ready and I
study, and then I come to the ORand then this girl like blows
me away in the OR and I justremember thinking like she's got
it, like she can do, you can doanything you want.
(12:46):
Like I just was, like I canbarely get up in time to get to
work on time.
I just was really inspired bythat level of commitment.
I just think that's interesting.
Was that normal for you?
Like are you just kind of a gohard, go all in person?
Yeah, if I make my mind up tosomething that's going to happen
, but I mean I can do both thatI also have a list of things I'm
procrastinating, so let's notget it wrong here.
(13:11):
But yeah, now, if I, if I decideI'm going to do something,
that's, that's pretty much itand you graduate from UMKC a
program in 2017.
And then tell us about takingyour first job.
I was one of the first in myclass to start working.
I had decided I really want tostart working.
(13:31):
Well, okay, I got pregnant andin my second year, had my son a
week after our boards.
I had worked weekends to buildup maternity time because I
wanted time off with him, so Itook four weeks off right after
boards, and then my son got RSVand was in the hospital for a
week.
So I actually I ended up takingfive weeks off.
(13:51):
So we wanted to.
I wanted to fast track, I wantto start working as soon as
possible, but which even thatamount of time?
it's hard taking a break untilyou like get into our job and
know what you're doing for thisbut even at the end, you know, I
thought I'm a pretty confidentstudent, like I think I'm doing,
and it still was like, oh, butnow I'm alone, alone, Like I'm
(14:15):
all the way alone now, yeah, youwere, you were a pretty
confident student.
I would say like I think whatwe hope for is by the end, the
students feel like I couldtotally do this and then the
only bridge that's left isactually leaning into that,
totally alone, alone, and thenseeing what you do in that, and
for the prospective AAs or theAAs students who are listening,
(14:36):
it can be tempting to be likeI'm going to take four months
off between school and work andwhile, okay, also just know that
the further you get away fromlike implementing those skills
in real life, you're just kindof delaying the anxiety and also
delaying a little bit of themomentum that you have, right
when you come out of school, andso you know, not totally wrong,
(14:58):
but also just to know that'swhat it's going to feel like.
Yeah, and I worked a lot withstudents at the previous job and
then now this is my second andI just try and tell them all
there's times for breaks and Ido, like you said, I wanted to
celebrate after I graduated too.
You've worked hard, it's beensucky at times, but yeah, we
(15:23):
like where I work now has youimmediately start.
We have a transitional programand I'm like, just do it, get in
there.
And like you have to see somehard things, especially right
then when your knowledge is sofresh, because I don't remember
I saw very few hard situationswhen I was in school that you
(15:44):
would have to handle on your own.
Yeah, and then you get out andyou do have to handle them on
your own, and now you're solelyrelying on that book knowledge
and you haven't done it.
So I tell everyone I'm like,just dive in, be poor for a
little bit.
Yeah, do the transitional Ifyou can find somewhere that'll
(16:05):
get you on fast and then takethat dream vacation.
Just delay it a little bit.
Like, just get in thatknowledge you can while you also
have the book knowledge to likeback it up.
Yes, yeah, you're never assmart as the day you graduate AA
school.
It goes down from there for me,at least, for me, okay, yeah.
(16:27):
I forgot that you got pregnantwith Paxton again, your son,
who's seven.
You got pregnant your secondyear of school, which is a whole
other thing to discuss how tonavigate.
And you know why I think Iforgot is because you just, for
better or for worse, poweredthrough like you just didn't.
It wasn't a thing which I don'tknow.
That I love that either.
You know what I mean.
(16:47):
Like I don't love that ourprofession doesn't allow for
some flexibility, because if youmiss time, you know you have to
make it up, but also it themoney starts accruing.
You know what I mean.
Like the debt is accruing.
It's not like, oh, I can justnot pay for a while.
At least that's how UMKCfunctioned at that time.
But room to improve forprofession, okay.
(17:11):
So how did it feel?
How did it feel?
How did your first job feel?
Once you kind of got into itand got in the in the OR alone,
alone, I loved it.
I never felt more dumb thanthat first day.
I've loved our profession, thetwo places I've worked since I
(17:32):
started.
It's a stressful dog and I tryand talk to my students about
this.
That school was stressful, ourjob is more stressful and it
doesn't go away.
So there is.
I do think that's an area toimprove for everybody.
Kind of what you're working onis making sure you have the
(17:52):
outside life, making sure youhave the support.
It's not.
It's not an easy job.
It is what it is.
Yeah.
Totally, yeah, like emotionally,spiritually, physically, it
demands everything from you.
Yeah, yeah, also not to bearthe lead.
Kelsey worked at my hospital,so we worked together.
(18:14):
She was a student for me andthen your first job was at one
of the main rotation hospitalsfor UMKC and I would say we
didn't take all the studentslike the good part about being a
student and taking a job at oneof the main hospitals that you
know exactly what you're gettinginto.
And then on the hospital end wewere pretty picky about what
(18:35):
students we wanted to work withus, just because we saw all
sides of every student you know.
So, yeah, we welcome Kelseywith open arms.
And then, how many years wereyou working, would you say,
before things started to getlike significantly harder or
more overwhelming In life or thejob?
I would say, tell me both.
(18:56):
Like, how did they interactwith each other or was it very
separate for you?
That's kind of I was going totouch on that a second ago
talking about the stressful, howstressful our job is is that
life also doesn't stop at alland we can't you kind of have to
be, able to separate the two.
(19:17):
Not kind of you do.
They can't co-function.
There's not a way that you canbe falling apart at work and do
our job.
It's just not possible.
So I think that's a good thing.
And so my life was gettingharder, right when I had our son
, or shortly there after is whatI should say probably about two
(19:37):
months after.
And then work started gettingharder.
We had it was a small group,less people taking call, and I
don't even know what week thiswas.
I know it was towards the whenI put in my three months.
I think it was about a month ortwo after I started getting my
job, towards the when I put inmy three months notice.
(19:58):
But I just remember looking atmy time card and I was like I've
been here 78 hours this weekand I have a little child at
home and, granted, when I was oncall I either most of the time
had a friend, but either myfriend or my husband brought him
up to the call room so I atleast could see him the few
(20:19):
times we went in there at night.
But that's just not.
That's not the family I wanted.
That's not the life I wanted.
I didn't want to be working 70plus hours a week with my child
at home?
Yeah, yeah, and what was thethought on how to remedy that?
Or did you feel trapped, likethis is just what this job is.
(20:41):
There's no way out?
Um, I wanted to go part time.
I think you and I had talkedabout it, but there were some
other people that like splitposition stuff, like that.
So I wanted to go part time andthen you know, when the time
comes, you can pick up more.
Great, you can pick up more.
But at least while my son wasyoung, I wanted to be home with
(21:03):
them.
Yes.
I can sympathize with that and,as Kelsey just said, um, we were
both working at the same timeat the same place and both
wanting to work part time andthe group we worked for.
It was very wild to considerthat anyone could work part time
.
And this was what like 2018 ishmaybe and Kelsey just started,
(21:23):
not a year before that and thatsort of push and pull of wanting
more time, more family time,took you and I both in separate
directions.
I left to go to a part time jobthat I'm still at now and you
left to find a differentsolution.
And just tell us a little bitabout that transition for you
and where you thought you weregoing to go and how it ended up.
(21:45):
Um, so one of the certain thingsthat I wanted to do was I was a
surgeon that had been at thathospital was moving to a
different hospital that, only atthe time, had two ORs, only had
one functioning, uh, with thename of a cesiologist.
Every day, like three o'clockwas late for them to work.
You were out before three, thatwas.
They said we want to bring AA'scause.
(22:07):
He was going over there.
He did a lot of cases in oneday, so it would be mainly
working for him.
There was a couple of othersthat went there, but it would
largely be working for him.
Did all the credentialing, didall that stuff?
I mean, I was fullycredentialed at the hospital.
I had put in my three monthsnotice Um, that was the
requirement on my contract andit got down to like three weeks
(22:33):
before that three months was upand they were like ooh, the
hospital board decided that weneed to build more ORs to make
this financially a smartdecision, which I was like yeah,
I could have told you that twomonths ago, like I didn't see
how this was working.
But so now my job had beenfilled, because obviously you
(22:57):
know they needed to fill it inthat time and I was without a
job.
And then the story continueswhere we're going.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I mean just a reallytumultuous time.
I mean I, it was a tumultuoustime to be a CAA in, kind of our
little area.
(23:17):
I do think CAA is kind of youkind of only know what's real
for, like the people rightaround you, because CAAs are
kind of in pockets.
I feel like and yeah, it wasjust a really stressful time.
One of the main hospitals thathires CAAs and is also our main
training site, it was just ahuge transition period.
There was a bunch of CAAs there.
(23:37):
We wanted different things.
People were leaving, like CRNAswho had been there forever were
leaving.
Like it was just a time whenpeople were trying to find a
better fit for themselves.
But I would say I didn't knowany of this, so it felt like the
rug probably was getting pulledout from underneath you, I'm
assuming, Kind of.
I mean, like I said, from thebeginning I had kind of been
(23:59):
like I just don't understand howthis is making sense for them.
But I went with it.
You wanted it to work.
Yeah, we were kind of we wantedthese like things that could be
different to work out.
Yeah, and talk to me a littlebit about the state that you
were in when you lost that joband personally, your life was
(24:21):
getting harder.
You said talk to me about, like, what was going on for you
behind the scenes at that time.
So I'm going to leave a lot ofthe background alone.
I'm going to describe theoverall situation and it's not
something.
None of this is secret, None ofthis is.
I'm happy to talk to anyoneindividually, but I'm just not
(24:43):
going to like throw it all outthere.
But my marriage was gettingharder from the second we not
the second but shortly after Ihad my son, you know, we had a
stress of a new baby.
We bought a house.
I'm graduating school for thisnew stressful job.
So I was drinking a lot.
(25:08):
I was drinking most nights andspring of 19 is when I just
didn't want to go home anymore.
That's not even the right wayto put it.
My son is my everything, Alwayswanted to be there with him,
Didn't want to go to go home tothe husband.
So, yeah, he, we both had aproblem and I never, never drank
(25:36):
at work, never went to workhungover.
It wasn't, you know, gettingdrunk every night, but it was
absolutely using it asmedication to stop what was
going in my going on in my headfrom work and imagining going
(26:01):
home.
Yeah, Do you?
I think a lot of peoplelistening to you right now are
like, well, I drink every nightwhen I come home from work too.
Can you share how it feltdifferent, and were you drinking
(26:22):
before this, more casually, andyou kind of felt yourself
drinking more and more todisconnect?
Yeah, absolutely I mean.
Yeah, I drink before you know,have people over, have some
drinks.
Or yeah, you go to a chiefsgame, have some drinks.
This was not.
This was literally leaving workbeing like I'm um, God, it's a
(26:49):
hard feeling to describe, butliterally that's just looming
doom.
That I felt like I was beingchoked and what was going to fix
it was drinking and like, not,you know, there's better ways to
cope, there's other things todo, and it wasn't in my head at
that moment.
(27:09):
That's all.
That was my only option thatwas going to fix it.
Were you aware of this at thetime where you're like gosh, you
just I'm using alcohol to cope,or was this something only in
hindsight that you now can seethe?
You know the track of it?
I think it was.
(27:35):
So I saw a therapist personallyand then we saw a couple of
marriage counselors together andI think it was.
I think it was January of 19.
So, like I said, I didn't.
This was before my drinking waswhere it got and before I had
put in my notice and everything.
(27:55):
I think it was January of 19that I told him.
I was like I think I have adrinking problem and we talked
about it, talked about settingup more sessions, we talked
about I was going to get on alittle something for sleep,
because I wasn't sleeping at all.
My son woke up five times anight until 11 months old.
I remember that.
(28:15):
Yeah, I remember you telling methat.
Yeah, oh my God.
And then slept through thenight at 11 months old and I was
like, is he dead?
Like oh gosh.
Yeah.
But I remember that session sovividly.
I just threw it out there.
I was like I think I have aproblem.
So I started working with them.
Before it got to the point itdid, did this all come to a head
(28:43):
?
Like all the storms kind ofcoalesced at the same time, like
was that the lowest point?
Oh, I took the little campfireand poured gasoline on it.
So I filed the final divorcespring of 19, right when I was
applying for the other jobquitting, my first job was
(29:08):
taking care of our son.
We had a large house, three dogs, a bunny, the 74 hours a week
of work, to say it in the bestway possible, I was absolutely
burning the candle at both ends,exhausted, dying, not
(29:31):
communicating with anyone, justputting on a smile every day and
everything was fine and nothingwas fine.
None of it was working.
So it was end of June, justabout my last day at my first
job, came home from work we wereon like a peel system that day.
(29:54):
I got off like really early Iwas in early numbers, so I got
off like one, two o'clock Ithink, picked up my son from
daycare, we went to the park,the water park splash pad thing.
We stocked a quick trip.
On the way home he got anosebleed.
I remember just losing it overthis nosebleed, something like
(30:15):
totally fine and it was like adry air nosebleed and I just
really like losing it.
And our house was right downthe street taking there start
making dinner.
Call his dad I'm like you gotto come over here.
We got to figure out thedivorce terms.
I'm exhausted.
(30:37):
He came over, some alcohol washad and things got physical.
I leave and I get a DUI.
Was leaving to go to my dad's.
But, like I said, I may leave.
Some of those details of thatstory I'm happy to talk to him
that anyone that wants to butleaving get a DUI.
(31:00):
So now I'm like cool, now I amjobless because they had just
decided, literally like the weekprior, that they need to build
more hours.
Can't go back to that onebecause my pre the one with you
because they had hired peopleand let's get a brand new DUI.
(31:21):
Husband takes my son, my mentalfalling apart gets even worse
and I get a second DUI in a week.
So I wake up the next morningfrom that one and I'm like okay,
(31:43):
my life is either gonna getreally bad or I've got to change
just about everything in it.
And luckily I have an amazingsupport system, because I don't
think it's possible without that.
I decided to change everysingle thing in my life but it
(32:04):
very easily, very easily, couldhave gone the other way.
I just feel.
I just feel that terrible,terrible place you were in.
If I want to go back there, Istill can and I can remember
like very specific days exactlyhow I felt and stuff like that,
(32:27):
and I don't want anyone to everfeel like that alone.
I'm very fortunate, even withthe number of people I had
around, there were still daysthat I was like I'm the only one
that's ever done this and likeit just it takes you down bad
places.
(32:47):
I just.
I could go on about thatforever, but I don't want anyone
to feel like that alone becauseit's not it's a horrible place.
It takes a lot of bravery toshare that story and I really
want to acknowledge truly howgrateful I am that you are
(33:09):
willing to share your story, andwe had talked before this and
you had said that that you hadfelt so alone and so alone
within our profession that, likeyou, must be the only one this
has ever happened to, and Iwould love for us right now to
(33:29):
kind of help others feel lessalone, and I think the way to do
that is to share some of thestory of you coming out on the
other side and to where you arenow and I know it's like the
worst moment of your life, beingright at the point where you
(33:51):
have two fresh DUIs, you don'thave a job, you're, you feel
completely alone.
What do you do?
How do you move forward?
What did you do or maybe wishyou did?
There were good choices in bed.
I hope others reach out or likeknow that they have resources
(34:11):
to go and check into things,because I feel like I was a
little bit of a tester.
Some things worked well andthen some things, you know they
didn't hurt me, but that nextmorning definitely I was like
clearly an issue.
People without issues don't gettwo DUIs in a week and a half
(34:34):
Immediately enrolled andoutpatient started like I think
the next day or something.
Can you say a little bit morejust what outpatient is for the
people who are listening, whoare like wait what?
Yeah, so obviously there'sinpatient versus outpatient.
Like alcohol rehab, outpatientwas three hours a day, three
times a week, basically a group.
(34:55):
They do little lessons andstuff, but a lot of it was also
talking.
It's building a community, it'schecking in, it's a lot about
that and they kind of pick yourtimeline.
I didn't end up saying I thinktheirs was like 16 weeks, I
think, and something at like 12weeks.
They told me like you're good,I also was doing a lot of other
(35:19):
things, so I didn't stay thewhole time and then and you
chose, you elected to govoluntarily into outpatient.
Yeah, there were several thingsI did just automatically by
choice, and that was one of themwas outpatient.
I immediately called mycounselor and was like we need
to start talking a lot moreObviously, immediately got
attorneys for my choices andthen started reaching out.
(35:41):
I actually reached out to kindof a large amount of medical
professionals I think majoritywere doctors that I knew and was
very honest.
I always here's what happened,what do I do now?
And one of them was and this isa really good resource and I
don't want to say like, don't godo this or do this One of them
(36:03):
was I did go up to there's theMissouri Health.
I should have looked this upbefore the podcast.
It was the Physician Healthprogram.
Yeah, yeah.
Up in Chicago and I did go upthere because one of the docs
had suggested, like, go up there, get an evaluation from them
and see Normally, like that'ssomething that's mandated.
(36:24):
Like once you were, if I had ahearing with the Missouri Board
of Arts, like they could havedecided, hey, you need to go up
there and do it inpatient, hey,you need it, or go up there and
get an eval and whatever theysay, that's what you do.
I chose to go up there, likeimmediately, and I think I
should have just taken a fewdays to think.
(36:45):
So, yeah, I did that outpatient, started seeing my therapist
all the time.
Obviously, court dates and suchstarted happening.
Oh, the other voluntary was Istarted taking a breathalyzer
four times a day, every day.
Mainly.
A lot of these things were atthe time I was focusing on
(37:07):
getting my son back because myhusband was not letting me see
him, but this is also what endedup helping me keep my license,
because I had two years of proof, a year and a half by the time.
I had to reapply for my licenseand I had to come back for
(37:31):
everything of here.
I got sober, I've been sober.
You know, I have a commitmentto stay sober and you guys are
welcome to follow me however youwant.
And they looked at all my stuff.
We had a hearing at one pointand they said you know we're
(37:53):
really proud of you.
We hope you know to support youin toward and that's yeah.
Yeah.
Because we talked aboutbeforehand sort of what we
wanted the outcome of thisepisode.
I really wanted to drawattention to that timeline and
to some of these moving pieces,because there is so much nuance
(38:17):
to Kelsey's story and toeveryone's story.
But there's also some bigpieces and some governing bodies
that I think I've never heard aCAA discuss before, especially
in this way, like when it comesto our license, especially if
you're disputing some sort ofclaims made against you or you
have like an outpractice claimor some of these really hard to
(38:40):
talk about topics, because if wedon't ever hear someone who
sounds like us and is in oursituation talk about it, it's
really hard to know what to do,which I don't want to put words
into your mouth, but it feelslike that you, unfortunately you
said it you're the tester.
You're almost like the testsubject, not that this is the
first person that's everhappened to, but it's the first
person you knew about, becausewe're not talking about this and
(39:02):
that's what Kelsey and I reallywanted to do in this episode.
So I just wanted to draw alittle bit of attention.
Kelsey had said that she went upto Chicago to get an assessment
and oftentimes that assessmentcan come in if there's an
infraction from a hospital.
If there's some sort of legalissue, like a DUI, that your
hospital or your privateanesthesia group or whoever
finds out about, like the, yourlicensing body, you can, as part
(39:26):
of the process of like, okay,what do we do, what's the
treatment, and also to show thatthere's progress being made,
because we are such in aprofession that you need to be
your healthiest to be deliveringanesthesia.
They'll say, you know, go getthis assessment and the
assessment's going to tell allof us okay, the best thing for
you is to go to inpatientrecovery or outpatient recovery,
(39:47):
or you don't need recovery orthere is a problem, and kind of
gets just some language and somelike validity behind the
situation.
That was the first thing Iwanted to just point out.
And then Kelsey is also talkingabout here several layers of
people who need to know thatthat Kelsey was in recovery and
(40:07):
that Kelsey had DUIs.
And one of the people shementioned are the healing arts,
which is referring to theMissouri Board of Healing Arts,
which is in Missouri, kelseysaid, the particular governing
body, a state institution thatgrants CAAs the licensure in
Missouri.
It's not called that in everystate, which is how you know,
the language can be sometimesconfusing.
(40:28):
And that's the governing bodythat Kelsey was saying she, her
license came due in the state ofMissouri in 2021.
And that on that questionnairewhere they say have you had any?
What's the language?
Like a felonies or it says oneof them specifically states a
(40:49):
substance abuse.
Okay.
Yeah, okay, and that's where youstated yes.
And then I assume they asked fora whole bunch more details.
And then they take the MissouriBoard of Healing Arts takes all
of this in consideration togrant the CAA, CAA their license
for that two year period.
That's how it runs in Missouri.
(41:10):
Very similar situation in everyother state.
It just might not be called theMissouri Board of Healing Arts,
but it's usually whoever givesthe licensure to the physicians
that governing agency is whogives it to CAAs.
And I will say, like on thatone, when I did that in 2021,
like I said then, at that pointI had, you know, almost two
(41:31):
years, year and a half, twoyears of four times a day
alcohol tests Actually anothertopic we'll get on at some point
there was a time period I hadan alcohol monitoring bracelet
on.
I sent all that with.
So it was like sending in thatpacket with my licensure stuff
(41:53):
and I actually was immediatelygranted that the hearing was not
from that.
Thank you, yeah, okay, everyonehas told me, like you
absolutely would have had ahearing probably if I didn't
have that stuff, but it's kindof like making those changes is
what kept my license, I think.
(42:18):
Tell me the other question in myhead was how did you know where
to get a breathalyzer?
Was that some of that physiciancolleagues that you were
calling in for resources andlike asking questions where they
saying, hey, this thing youcould do is get a breathalyzer,
this thing you could do is getan alcohol monitoring?
How did you know what to do?
That would be calleddesperation and Google.
(42:38):
That's all it was.
It was trial and error and Iended up very fortunate with the
choices I made.
Again, I'm happy to give someof this information or talk to
anyone about it.
It literally was justdesperation.
In Google, I was determinedthat I was gonna get my son back
(43:02):
immediately from this and itwas driven by that motherhood
thing first, and then yeah, andthen keeping.
I mean, now we haven't evengotten to either.
Now I'm too Fresh.
Duis and no job yeah, let's getinto that, because it this is a
two-year almost period, or youknow year and some change
(43:24):
between the DUIs and theMissouri Board of Healing Arts
in 2021, which I'm assuming waslike kind of a big relief that
they granted your licensure.
And then there was, of course,some follow-up issue with them
with what's the term?
The, the infraction, anonymouscomplaint.
Yeah, yeah, the anonymouscomplaint, yes, which is kind of
a whole separate thing, so wecan kind of leave that lie,
(43:45):
although I'm sure it obviouslywas not just some little thing
for you.
But in that period, how are youworking?
How did you get a job?
Were you nervous about that?
How to talk to me about that,because that seems very
overwhelming.
Yeah, it was more thanoverwhelming.
It, like I said, everything wasimploding at the same moment and
it was just.
It is exactly I it's.
(44:08):
This is gonna sound so cliche,but it literally was like one
foot in front of the other andlike that's all I could do was
like just make one choice.
And then, because if I thoughtabout everything, it was
exhausting, every it wasexhausting.
But I Remembered that my currentjob remembered from school I
(44:32):
had rotated there in school thatthey had transition Oles and
they had Temporary and they hadPira and like just large company
that has a wide variety ofShifts, and I knew I was gonna
have a lot of things coming up.
There was gonna be court datesand the war states and Things
(44:54):
that I had to do.
So I called the doctor that Iknew, that worked there and that
Did a lot of the recruiting andstuff.
He was involved in it and laidit all out there.
I just said it.
I said everything becausethat's what the few docs I had
talked to about where to go nexthad told me.
Like Honestly, if you getcaught in any lies in any of
(45:15):
this, you're now, you're done.
But so just honestly, like,even on all those, every
hospital form, I still have toread them very specifically
Because some say, like in thelast five years, or some say you
know felonies, none of minewere felonies.
You just have to like you needto pay attention.
(45:37):
And I called him, I laid it allout there, everything I said,
the situation surrounding whathappened, said you know why I
was jobless, like I hadn'tgotten fired or anything.
And they were like absolutelycome on out.
Obviously I had interviewingand we still did all the things.
(45:59):
They several remembered me assoon, not all them, they have a
lot of students but coupled inand I started working there
because my license was stillgood with Missouri.
But I didn't even know Until itwas about three months, might
have been six months.
Three to six months after I wasworking there I got a letter in
(46:21):
my mailbox.
I was like, hey, your temporaryprivileges have been granted to
full hmm, I.
Don't know if it was because theDUIs, because I'm sure, like
the transitions, I'm sureeveryone, with how fast they do
credentialing, has sometemporary time period.
But I just remember gettingthat letter and being like I
(46:41):
didn't even think about that's,probably like they had been
watching, yeah, which rightfullyso.
But I Just I was up front andhonest and I worked hard and
just did the things I wassupposed to do.
And then now my littleTemporary job.
I just took it just to getthrough like, oh, I'll just get
(47:02):
through a little bit ofcoordinates and stuff.
I've been there five years nowand yeah of it, yeah, there was
some something there that madethem say yes, I Assume you know
some sort of resonance there.
I also think you were a kick-assstudent, so that helps and
having good relationships withpeople while you're in school.
You never know where thoserelationships are gonna then
(47:23):
step in and be your bridge tosafety, especially when you're
at one of the lowest points ofyour life, and so I just think a
lot of lessons to learn thereand Also interesting, that is
still the place that feels likewhere you're supposed to be.
I'm I'm curious how lifesettled down or when you're at
(47:45):
now with your health and yourwell-being, and like that
relationship with being a CAA,like where Do you feel like the
last five years have taken you,that I Like to say like, oh, I
would do it all over again toget to the same spot.
Um, I'm not sure about that.
I was not, uh, no, but it was alot of things that needed to
(48:12):
happen and I know that sounds soweird, but like I Wouldn't have
left my marriage if it wasn't Ihad forced Um, and that needed
to happen and I needed to talkto someone a lot about a lot of
things.
I think everyone should talk toa counselor, but I needed, like
(48:34):
more, and this gave me thatintense.
You know, I was in theoutpatient so three times a week
for three hours and then alsoseeing a Psychologist and like
there was a lot of talking andmy family didn't grow up talking
, like my parents were veryloving I'm not saying that but
like you didn't talk aboutfeelings.
So just some of that, just itneeded to happen and I think
(48:56):
it's made me into the mom I amtoday and the you know, employee
I am today, because I justthink more that needs to happen,
a lot more talking, mmm, andI'm just thinking also like the
CAA profession was like Part ofthe problem.
You know, like it added to thestress and to the to the drama
(49:20):
in terms of like the jobs andbeing stressed about the job,
but it was also the thing that,like where else can you work PRN
here and there around courtdates and things and make enough
money to still live?
You know, nehmeen, like I justthink the CAA profession we just
have a gift in front of us withit, and I just think that more
(49:41):
of this type of conversation andmore communication about the
hard parts Allow all of the goodparts of it to really thrive
for us and be used by us.
And I just wonder what youwould say about, like, how the
CAA profession could improve orwhat's, what's the takeaway,
what's something we work towardsas a profession after this
experience, I could go on aboutthat for a long time, especially
(50:06):
, though, um, I have told I meanprobably not the entire company
, but several people where Iwork now Like I would not have a
job if it was not for thiscompany.
So at the time, there was onlyabout four people.
There had to be a couple,because I actually At one point
like had to leave work sometimesduring the day, and so a couple
(50:29):
of the board right now.
I had to know why I'm leavingwork.
Mm-hmm, like to do some of thethings that were required of you
during this process, you had tokind of be able to have supreme
flexibility.
Yeah, yeah and.
You know, not talking down atall about where we were working
together, but there was whatnine of us there a day, like
(50:52):
there's not extra people and I'mnot saying our company always
has extra people right now, likethis was an extreme
circumstance, obviously, so youcan't do this for 110 people.
But I do think more of aconversation needs to be had
about Because I looked at a tonof jobs and, let's be honest, I
(51:13):
think a lot of us look all thetime.
I look just to see what thereis.
I'm not, let's just say wellinformed.
Yeah, I, there's not another jobI could have taken, even like
Other PRN ones.
They'd be like, yeah sure, giveus your Schedule three months
in advance.
I can barely tell you next week, not now.
(51:36):
Now I can, but, but then I waslike I can barely tell you
what's happening next week, likeI can't tell you three months
in advance.
They were supremely Forgivingand kind and but in this, like I
don't want to make this soundeither I mean I know they were
watching me, I know you knowthere was safeguards in place.
(52:00):
There was.
It can be an and both.
You don't just because you'rekind and trusting and forgiving
doesn't mean you also don't havehigh standards and your whole.
You're watching and your care.
You know what I mean.
Like I just think that thatthat Separation doesn't have to
be there, yeah, and I just thinkmore needs to be talked about.
But how we can find supportingmental health and what's going
(52:25):
on in people's lives whileMaking healthcare still function
, yeah, yeah, because I meanthat was one thing like I was
talking about where you know ourprofession doesn't really allow
for things to coexist as like.
This is my job and the rest oflife is over here, so there
would be time for me to go backand talk about my health.
So there would be times I'mlike Falling apart, dying inside
(52:50):
, probably crying in thebathroom, and then coming out
and like smiling and talking topatients, taking care of them,
and I think that's a lot of whatdoesn't work in healthcare.
Yes, is I.
I think that's where peoplestart feeling alone, that's
where people start havingtroubles after work.
That's where and I think that'swhere it starts.
Hmm it's, then we have to figureout, like, how you can separate
(53:13):
it and function at work, butalso how you get help you need
before you're here.
And when do you think thatbridge is?
Is there any insight?
I have my own ideas about thatbridge, but Anything that you
feel like if we just had this orif it was just this way,
because one of the Privileges Ithink about being a CAA and one
(53:35):
of our strengths, which many seeas a weakness, but I'm like
there's only 3500 of us.
We could almost, when you go tothe quad a, you're you're
talking to almost a Quarter ofall CAA's ever and so we can
make change.
You know, we could say this iswhat it feels like and looks
like and this is how CAA'scommunicate, and you could get
that message out far easier thanfor CERNAs or docs or, you know
(53:58):
, nurses.
Any insights I'm looking for?
I just I would love a magicpill answer or a conversation
about it.
I know, I Know.
That's why now I'm like man.
I mean, I think our companydoes a really great job.
They have a whole wellnessboard.
They send out that.
You know, they send out thatstuff.
That's just.
(54:19):
That's gonna be a really hardquestion because overall I think
it's just my thing, I think ishealthcare in general and just
the mental health crisis ingeneral.
I think that has to getdestigmatized.
But then, especially in ourprofession, like I don't know if
I would have gone and said likeI'm starting to have a drinking
problem, would there have beenlike repercussions, what they
(54:42):
have started watching me at work.
Would they start out where,like, like I said I never drink
at work, I never.
But Would they be supportive ifyou came and said I think I'm
starting to have a problem?
Yeah, yeah, I don't know you.
So you so tapped on where Ifeel like we could Improve,
(55:02):
which is we could, just we couldsay we could do the really hard
work and say what it means tobe a CAA is that you can always
go to the other CAA's and say Ifeel like I'm having a problem
with alcohol, like something'swrong, I'm overwhelmed.
You know you could have thoseconversations because our
profession Encourages that onall the levels.
When you're a student, the youknow the quad a, does the
(55:25):
program directors Like I thinkthat is the opportunity for
change.
And then you also saidsomething about Communication
and feeling like you have acommunity.
I just feel like we couldreally lean into our small size
as a way to like.
Let's bring us all in, let'sget it real tight up in here.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, because health care isbroken.
(55:48):
I mean there's no way around it.
Everyone understands the healthcare system is broken and being
a CAA inside a broken systemWill only make your health worse
unless you are your best,healthiest, most resource, more,
most supported.
And I do think that's ourprofessions and that's one of
the things we could do is wecould say that's what our
profession, you know, holds as avalue.
(56:10):
Well, and I even wanted toexpand it out we keep talking
about alcohol, obviously,because that's what I was
dealing with, but you know, wehave those lectures in school
and stories keep coming up about.
There is the you know, narcoticabuse, absolutely, and that's
what we're around all the time.
And I think, same thing likehow, how do we stop it before
(56:33):
you're at the point of gettingto you eyes or Getting caught
stealing from work, like how doyou stop it at the beginning?
And I think that's gonna be anongoing conversation.
But, like you said, I Do thinkwe have an awesome opportunity
to just support each other, andI think that's the big part is
(56:54):
supporting each other and kindof coming in and like finding
out the real of how do we helpyou, yeah, and investing our
time and energy at that spot,knowing there's this whole
anecdote, I like, about upstreamproblems versus downstream
problems, and like putting youreffort into the upstream
solutions and so you're puttingyour effort into what feels like
(57:15):
soft skills, communication andempathy and connection.
But really, if you're strongthere, then the downstream
problems become minimized or youreach out for help earlier, and
so I mean there's just so manymore things to say, but I just
what you're doing today with meis the answer.
This is the answer, I think, andI just I just am incredibly
(57:39):
grateful for your bravery andyou reached out to me and I
think also I didn't ask you this, but you had kind of said that
like no one really knew that youwere going through all of this
and I was really close to youand I didn't know.
I knew life was hard.
I knew life was hard, but I didnot know the depths of this,
and there's something to beimproved there as well, on my
(58:03):
own relationships with peopleand just, of course, then it
gets bigger and bigger.
The eccentric circles getbigger and bigger.
That we could improve.
Yeah, I'm just really gratefulfor you, kelsey, and I just I'm
just in awe of you and I'm soproud to be getting this story
and being able to send it out toour community.
Is there anything else that wedidn't touch on, any parting
(58:26):
words that you feel like youwant to have left said here?
I guess this has been it wastrusting me out a lot, not.
I, like I said, I'm very, veryopen and I'm happy to talk to
anyone, and I really do hopethat anyone that sees this like
happy to talk to you aboutanything, whether you want to
hear more of my story, whetheryou need help, whether you need
(58:48):
to talk about something else,perfectly fine, I'm happy to,
and that's why I wanted to dothis, because it's not only
helping me just kind of move onand keep growing past this.
But I want other people to knowlike you've got choices.
It can go really bad.
I'm not saying it can't, it can.
But you can keep your job, turnit around, you can be happy in
(59:10):
your profession, happy in yourlife, and get past these hard
parts that go on.
Yes, and normalizing the hardthat's going to happen.
Yeah.
How could people get in contactwith you?
If they do want to follow upwith you Email phone any way
(59:33):
they want, maybe we don't giveyour phone number out to the
internet?
Maybe, not by phone.
You're welcome to put my emailat the bottom or, if you want to
say it either way, which I'mfine with that, are you on
social media much?
I feel like we communicateoccasionally over there.
Yeah, no, I'm on Instagram.
Facebook, I'm on everything.
Okay, would that be okay ifpeople kind of reach out there?
(59:54):
Okay, absolutely, of course.
Good, I'll put that all in theshow notes, all right, kelsey?
Well, what are you doing therest of your day?
I'm getting ready to.
I am a big stickler about Imake Paxton's cake every year.
This year, I finally chosesleep over baking all night, so
I bought the cake.
Yes, I'm decorating it.
(01:00:15):
So I'm going to go decorate thecake.
Good, awesome.
Well, that sounds like awonderful thing to do after this
really hard thing.
That you did is celebrate.
You celebrate him and kind ofthe life that you're enjoying
now.
So I really appreciate you,kelsey, and we'll talk soon.
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode.
(01:00:38):
If this is the first time you'rehearing of a CAA discuss their
struggle with substance usedisorder, you are likely not
alone.
I don't think it's a topic wetalk about much, but it is a
topic that CAAs struggle with.
The disease of substance usedisorder is rampant in the
anesthesia profession, whichincludes CAAs, but it's been
(01:01:02):
more highly documented in ourCRNA colleagues and our
anesthesiologist colleagues.
So not hearing about it cansometimes feel like this isn't
happening to us, but afterhearing Kelsey's story and
possibly other stories thatyou've heard just kind of
through the grapevine or throughpeople at work, you know that
(01:01:23):
Kelsey is not alone in herstruggle and Kelsey's bravery in
sharing her story, I hope,reminds us all that there's so
much value in connection andsharing ourselves and reaching
out when you feel like you wantto crawl inside yourself, and
I'm just so grateful again toKelsey If you would like to
(01:01:44):
follow up with her and connectwith her.
She's allowed me to share heremail, which is
kelseyjanceyahoocom, and Italked to Kelsey some on
Instagram so she said she'spretty active there.
Her handle is atK-E-L-S-E-Y-J-O-333.
(01:02:06):
And, of course, kelsey Jance atyahoocom and Kelsey Joe 333.
That contact information isgoing to be in the show notes.
Like Kelsey so eloquently said,she's wondering how we help each
other, how we help ourselves insubstance use disorder and
navigating a stressful careerlike being a CAA, like giving
(01:02:29):
anesthesia, and how weintertwine our personal and
professional lives.
I'm wondering the same thingand, if you like, kelsey and I
are wondering where do we gofrom here, I would love to
connect with you.
This is certainly something Iam passionate about and so if
you are a CAA or AA student, oreven a prospective AA who knows
(01:02:49):
you're going to get into AAschool and you want to be really
boots on the ground of thismovement that I'm trying to
start within our profession, youcan contact me at
awakenedanesthetistcom.
Another great resource, to say,connected to myself and
anything that may be going on inthis wellness, well-being,
(01:03:10):
preventative, mental healtharena is by getting on my email
list, which is also a link thatyou can find in the show notes.
And I've also started a newconnections group.
It's called Making Connections.
We meet once monthly on Zoomfor an hour and it's my first
attempt at creating anopportunity for CAAs to get
(01:03:32):
together outside of work,outside of school, outside of
the Quad A just a place whereCAAs can feel safe, in community
with each other, talking aboutsome deeper topics, really
meeting each other where we are.
And it's called MakingConnections because I'm wanting
us to create a deeper connectionwith ourselves and with each
(01:03:55):
other.
So I invite you to that monthlygroup and you can find more
information once you sign up formy email newsletter and tell me
that you're interested inmaking connections.
If you loved this episode andfeel like it's important to
share, like I feel like it'simportant to share, I would be
really grateful if you wouldjust send this off to another AA
(01:04:16):
student or fellow CAA in yourlife.
Tell them why the storyimpacted you, tell them why you
like this podcast and have themlisten to this episode.
And that's really how ourcommunity is going to spread in
the way we want it to spread,which is keeping CAAs in this
community connected and growingtogether.
(01:04:37):
That happens so much easierwhen it's a direct conversation
from CAA to CAA.
So I really appreciate yourhelp in supporting the podcast
and the message and mission ofthis podcast.
I think that's it for me If youare going to the Quad A, so if
you're listening in real time, Iwill see you April 12th and I'm
excited to share more on thistopic.
(01:04:59):
It was all just happenstancethat this topic was what we
discussed in my March Processepisode.
You may have picked up thatKelsey reached out to me and the
timing was really perfectbecause I will be speaking on
substance use disorder andlooking to solve those upstream
problems within our CAAprofession at the Quad A and
(01:05:19):
it's really a workshop and abrainstorm and us talking and
listening deeply to each other.
So we're going to be practicingall those wonderful things with
each other and trying to moveforward, because it's an
opportunity that can't be passedup, having so many CAAs and
students in the room together.
So I hope to see you at theQuad A 2024.
If you're listening in realtime and if this is sometime in
(01:05:42):
the future, I hope you sharethis episode with another CAA in
your life.
Alright, let's talk soon, y'all.
My life is either going to get really bad or I've
got to change just abouteverything in it.
Welcome to the AwakenedAnesthetist Podcast, the first
podcast to highlight the CAAexperience.
I'm your host, mary Jean, andI've been a certified
anesthesiologist assistant forclose to two decades.
(00:22):
Throughout my journey andstruggles, I've searched for
guidance that includes my uniqueperspective as a CAA.
At one of my lowest points, Idecided to turn my passion for
storytelling and my belief thatthe CAA profession is uniquely
able to create a life by designinto a podcast.
If you are a practicing CAA,current AA student or someone
(00:47):
who hopes to be one, I encourageyou to stick around and
experience the power of being ina community filled with voices
who sound like yours, sharingexperiences you never believed
possible.
I know you will find yourselfhere at the Awakened Anesthetist
Podcast.
Welcome in.
Hello all my fellow CAAs and AAstudents.
(01:11):
Welcome to the podcast andwelcome to this really special
episode.
Honestly, I'm really proud ofthis episode.
I'm proud of Kelsey and I'mproud that she trusted me enough
to share her story with me.
It's really a big moment forour profession, I think, in the
history of us to have someonecome forward and share the full
(01:35):
spectrum of what it means to bea CAA and what it means to be a
full spectrum human being whilebeing a CAA.
It's the first time I know ofthat a CAA has really gone on
record to share so much, and Ihope that it inspires us all to
(01:57):
share more of ourselves andknowing that there's so much
community and connection and wayforward through life's hard
things when you reach out forhelp, when you share that you're
struggling, and that we as aprofession could move forward in
that direction, reallysupporting and helping each
other, that certainly might takeaway from this episode and I'm
(02:20):
really interested to hear how itresonates with all of you.
So I do want to give you just alittle bit of background on
Kelsey Koehler.
She graduated from theUniversity of Missouri, kansas
City AA program in 2017.
She currently practices in StLouis, missouri, for a private
group.
She works PRN.
She said she mostly worksweekends and she tries to work
(02:44):
as many hours as she can eachweekend because she's still
commuting from Kansas City.
That's about a three and a halfhour drive to St Louis every
weekend to work and she sharesin her process how she ended up
living in Kansas City butworking in St Louis and her
journey moving through thelowest points in her life, and I
(03:05):
think you all are going to getwhat you need from this episode,
and so I just want to have usget into it and share Kelsey
Koehler's story with all of you.
Okay, how are you feelingnervous, or yes, yeah, I know, I
know.
Totally normal.
(03:25):
I mean, especially, obviouslyyou're sharing something so
vulnerable.
But also, everyone else hasalways been nervous and by the
end they're like, okay, we gotinto it, like yeah, I'm really
grateful to have you, and Ithink it will come out through
the episode how we know eachother.
But yeah, this is sort of wehaven't seen each other for a
number of years, so this is alittle bit of a reunion, so it's
(03:48):
good to see you and I think Iwould like everyone to get to
know you through the rapid fireround.
I really enjoy these.
I hope everyone else isenjoying them.
I just think it's interestingto hear about the person and
just sort of everyone's littlequirks and oddities and sort of
what makes them unique to startus off.
So if you're game for that, Iwould love to start there.
Yeah, okay.
(04:10):
So this may not be super short,but I would love for you to
describe, if you can, yourperfect day.
Oh, that's a hard one.
Pax and I love I don't know, welove going on adventures soon.
So Pax is my son turning seventoday.
Actually, it's his birthday.
(04:31):
Oh, wow, yeah, so I don't know.
We wake up, chill.
I like.
There's about five restaurants.
I like Get something to eatfrom there, and then all the
neighborhood kids play footballand Matt and I always go out
there and play with them.
Yeah.
Just that and you know.
Just beautiful weather, somesunshine, like we had the other
(04:53):
day.
But Yep, now, listening to that, would you qualify yourself as
an extrovert or an introvert,because that sounds a little
like a homebody which I can getbehind.
Oh, 100%, yeah, introvert I am.
Yeah, I have forced myself tobe an extrovert for my son, but
no, I would.
I'd rather be home.
Anything home it's great.
(05:13):
Yeah, yeah, you're one of thefew people I think you might be
the first person that has said Iam 100% an introvert.
Yeah, I mainly do 12s plus atwork and yeah, by the end of the
day, I've talked myself out.
Yeah, you're tapped out, yeah.
(05:35):
Okay, what about this one?
What would you be if you werenot a CAA?
Money was no issue, everythingwas set and you could do
anything you wanted.
What would you do for work?
Ride horses teach kids how toride horses.
Yeah, I would still becompeting.
Yeah, you did that.
Okay, so I'm just going to likenot bury the lead.
Kelsey was one of my students.
(05:55):
She went to UMKC, which is theAA school here in Kansas City,
missouri, and she was one of mystudents.
Remind me your history withhorses.
I have forgotten, but you'vetold me before I grew up riding
them competed in 100 jumpercompetitions I actually went to
(06:16):
I'll preface this with.
I started wanting to be ananesthesiologist, specifically
cardiac.
Very young.
One of my dad's friends that hewent to high school with was
one, and I often went to like,take your diet or work day with
him to go see, because that waswhen there was less hip hop and
things like that, and so I couldgo see cardiac surgeries.
(06:37):
He's the one that got me intothis.
But when I was originally goingaway to college, I got a
scholarship to continuecompeting and riding horses.
So I went out there and waslike this is what I want to do
with my life.
I'm spending my day with horses, brushing horses, riding horses
.
So I took those classes mainlywhen I was out in North Carolina
(07:01):
and then was like oh, wait, asecond, you have to make money
to do this and you don't makemoney.
So, yeah, that's when I cameback and kind of got back on the
path that I had wanted to for along time.
But just, you know, life takesus different ways.
Okay, that's what I now I'mremembering that you had a
(07:22):
college scholarship to ridehorses and then found your way
back to CA.
And also, mind you, this is howconversations with Kelsey and I
go, is that I'll ask her onequestion and then we do.
You know, it's oh which onequick question and then we get
off onto something.
So, yes, I remember many a goodconversation with you in the OR
.
Okay, well, we heard a littlebit about how you found out
(07:42):
about the CA profession.
I want to hear more details, butlet's even go back before that
and I would love for you just toshare about your upbringing,
your family life, your childhood, just anything that stands out
about you know who you were as akid, how you were raised.
Uh, was raised now where I'mraising my son, but very like
good, what do you call it?
(08:03):
Suburb area?
It's a time when money wasreally good to.
Everyone was doing well, myparents own their own business.
They built homes.
My mom did some of the officework, my dad did the other part.
They were always around.
They built their schedulearound what we needed.
I've got two sisters Reallygood childhood, like I said, I
(08:26):
rode horses, I worked.
We all got jobs very early but,yeah, we just had a lot of.
That's how, like I said, I metthe anesthesiologist that ended
up shadowing a lot.
Just there was.
There's a lot of opportunitiesaround here.
So even our high schools, Imean that's why one of my son
going to these schools isthey've got shadowing programs.
(08:48):
They've.
They just have all these careeroriented.
They try and lead you in a goodpath.
Yeah, I had a great childhood.
Are you in the same suburb ofKansas City now like living
right now that you grew up in?
Is that what you're saying?
I'm like three blocks from it.
Yeah, oh, I didn't know that.
Yeah, and we live a block frommy dad, like, and his whole
family.
(09:08):
He's one of 10.
My mom's one of eight majorityare somewhere right here.
Wow, yeah, okay.
So really important to you tobe around family.
And you've mentioned a littlebit about now that cardiac
anesthesiologist with which weboth know.
He's one of the cardiacanesthesiologists who's really
big in the CAA community inMissouri.
(09:30):
He's one of the people rightwho was really instrumental in
getting our legislation passed.
Is that?
Am I right in saying that?
I think so.
Yeah, boots on the ground, kindof important to CAAs?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Okay.
And he was friends with yourdad.
And tell me about how youtransition then from cardiac
(09:50):
anesthesiologist dreams to CAAdreams and kind of leaving
behind maybe some of the otheroptions, which I think is
interesting that we can be goodand right for a lot of things,
but one thing kind of calls tous and give us a little bit of
those details.
Oh, like I said, I shadowed hima lot growing up multiple times.
Love, that that's absolutelywhat I wanted to do.
(10:12):
When it came time to I waspremed and I was taking the MCAT
, he was the one that kept beinglike I'm telling you, you've
said you want to family, you'vesaid you want to like this is
the other path to go.
He kept pushing like do CAA.
And I'm not going to lie to you, even it probably took till the
end of first year where I keptbeing like I don't know, maybe I
(10:36):
will go to med school, like Ithink it was just something that
had been in there so long, um,and I hadn't gotten far enough
into knowing what we did andeverything that it just kept
sticking there, like maybe I'mstill going to do it, I don't
know.
But yeah, then you get intoclinicals and you get in.
Just, I had the opportunity tobe like the first day at a
(10:59):
couple of hospitals newrotations and stuff and it
became very clear I'm I'm veryhappy with the path I took.
Very happy.
Interesting, because I thinkyou have kind of that old story
where did you know about theprofession when you're an
undergrad?
No, okay, I feel like that isthe old story, which is you kind
(11:21):
of find out about it a littlebit later and everyone's
thinking they're going tomedical school, and then it
appears as this diversion ordifferent opportunity away from
the medical school dream, andthen we're all kind of grappling
with oh gee, I thought it wasgoing to be a doctor, not
because I have to be a doctor,but because I thought that was
the only way.
And I just feel like the newversion of that is I want to be
(11:43):
a CAA.
I knew about it in high schooland I also think it feels really
different to get into an AAschool program these days.
I certainly am like I'm glad Igot in in 2006, because I think
it's a lot more work to get intoa program now and you really
have to be super, super suregoing in that that's what you
(12:04):
want.
You know what I mean.
I just think it's different.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I remember you as a newstudent because I think one of
your other passions correct meif I'm wrong at that point was
like fitness and bodybuilding.
Yes, yeah, I did my lastcompetition that that was
(12:24):
December of 15.
And that was right when.
Or I mean December of 14.
And I started January 15.
Yeah, and I just remember youtelling me oh yeah, I get up at
three and I work out and I eat,you know, get all ready and I
study, and then I come to the ORand then this girl like blows
me away in the OR and I justremember thinking like she's got
it, like she can do, you can doanything you want.
(12:46):
Like I just was, like I canbarely get up in time to get to
work on time.
I just was really inspired bythat level of commitment.
I just think that's interesting.
Was that normal for you?
Like are you just kind of a gohard, go all in person?
Yeah, if I make my mind up tosomething that's going to happen
, but I mean I can do both thatI also have a list of things I'm
procrastinating, so let's notget it wrong here.
(13:11):
But yeah, now, if I, if I decideI'm going to do something,
that's, that's pretty much itand you graduate from UMKC a
program in 2017.
And then tell us about takingyour first job.
I was one of the first in myclass to start working.
I had decided I really want tostart working.
(13:31):
Well, okay, I got pregnant andin my second year, had my son a
week after our boards.
I had worked weekends to buildup maternity time because I
wanted time off with him, so Itook four weeks off right after
boards, and then my son got RSVand was in the hospital for a
week.
So I actually I ended up takingfive weeks off.
(13:51):
So we wanted to.
I wanted to fast track, I wantto start working as soon as
possible, but which even thatamount of time?
it's hard taking a break untilyou like get into our job and
know what you're doing for thisbut even at the end, you know, I
thought I'm a pretty confidentstudent, like I think I'm doing,
and it still was like, oh, butnow I'm alone, alone, Like I'm
(14:15):
all the way alone now, yeah, youwere, you were a pretty
confident student.
I would say like I think whatwe hope for is by the end, the
students feel like I couldtotally do this and then the
only bridge that's left isactually leaning into that,
totally alone, alone, and thenseeing what you do in that, and
for the prospective AAs or theAAs students who are listening,
(14:36):
it can be tempting to be likeI'm going to take four months
off between school and work andwhile, okay, also just know that
the further you get away fromlike implementing those skills
in real life, you're just kindof delaying the anxiety and also
delaying a little bit of themomentum that you have, right
when you come out of school, andso you know, not totally wrong,
(14:58):
but also just to know that'swhat it's going to feel like.
Yeah, and I worked a lot withstudents at the previous job and
then now this is my second andI just try and tell them all
there's times for breaks and Ido, like you said, I wanted to
celebrate after I graduated too.
You've worked hard, it's beensucky at times, but yeah, we
(15:23):
like where I work now has youimmediately start.
We have a transitional programand I'm like, just do it, get in
there.
And like you have to see somehard things, especially right
then when your knowledge is sofresh, because I don't remember
I saw very few hard situationswhen I was in school that you
(15:44):
would have to handle on your own.
Yeah, and then you get out andyou do have to handle them on
your own, and now you're solelyrelying on that book knowledge
and you haven't done it.
So I tell everyone I'm like,just dive in, be poor for a
little bit.
Yeah, do the transitional Ifyou can find somewhere that'll
(16:05):
get you on fast and then takethat dream vacation.
Just delay it a little bit.
Like, just get in thatknowledge you can while you also
have the book knowledge to likeback it up.
Yes, yeah, you're never assmart as the day you graduate AA
school.
It goes down from there for me,at least, for me, okay, yeah.
(16:27):
I forgot that you got pregnantwith Paxton again, your son,
who's seven.
You got pregnant your secondyear of school, which is a whole
other thing to discuss how tonavigate.
And you know why I think Iforgot is because you just, for
better or for worse, poweredthrough like you just didn't.
It wasn't a thing which I don'tknow.
That I love that either.
You know what I mean.
(16:47):
Like I don't love that ourprofession doesn't allow for
some flexibility, because if youmiss time, you know you have to
make it up, but also it themoney starts accruing.
You know what I mean.
Like the debt is accruing.
It's not like, oh, I can justnot pay for a while.
At least that's how UMKCfunctioned at that time.
But room to improve forprofession, okay.
(17:11):
So how did it feel?
How did it feel?
How did your first job feel?
Once you kind of got into itand got in the in the OR alone,
alone, I loved it.
I never felt more dumb thanthat first day.
I've loved our profession, thetwo places I've worked since I
(17:32):
started.
It's a stressful dog and I tryand talk to my students about
this.
That school was stressful, ourjob is more stressful and it
doesn't go away.
So there is.
I do think that's an area toimprove for everybody.
Kind of what you're working onis making sure you have the
(17:52):
outside life, making sure youhave the support.
It's not.
It's not an easy job.
It is what it is.
Yeah.
Totally, yeah, like emotionally,spiritually, physically, it
demands everything from you.
Yeah, yeah, also not to bearthe lead.
Kelsey worked at my hospital,so we worked together.
(18:14):
She was a student for me andthen your first job was at one
of the main rotation hospitalsfor UMKC and I would say we
didn't take all the studentslike the good part about being a
student and taking a job at oneof the main hospitals that you
know exactly what you're gettinginto.
And then on the hospital end wewere pretty picky about what
(18:35):
students we wanted to work withus, just because we saw all
sides of every student you know.
So, yeah, we welcome Kelseywith open arms.
And then, how many years wereyou working, would you say,
before things started to getlike significantly harder or
more overwhelming In life or thejob?
I would say, tell me both.
(18:56):
Like, how did they interactwith each other or was it very
separate for you?
That's kind of I was going totouch on that a second ago
talking about the stressful, howstressful our job is is that
life also doesn't stop at alland we can't you kind of have to
be, able to separate the two.
(19:17):
Not kind of you do.
They can't co-function.
There's not a way that you canbe falling apart at work and do
our job.
It's just not possible.
So I think that's a good thing.
And so my life was gettingharder, right when I had our son
, or shortly there after is whatI should say probably about two
(19:37):
months after.
And then work started gettingharder.
We had it was a small group,less people taking call, and I
don't even know what week thiswas.
I know it was towards the whenI put in my three months.
I think it was about a month ortwo after I started getting my
job, towards the when I put inmy three months notice.
(19:58):
But I just remember looking atmy time card and I was like I've
been here 78 hours this weekand I have a little child at
home and, granted, when I was oncall I either most of the time
had a friend, but either myfriend or my husband brought him
up to the call room so I atleast could see him the few
(20:19):
times we went in there at night.
But that's just not.
That's not the family I wanted.
That's not the life I wanted.
I didn't want to be working 70plus hours a week with my child
at home?
Yeah, yeah, and what was thethought on how to remedy that?
Or did you feel trapped, likethis is just what this job is.
(20:41):
There's no way out?
Um, I wanted to go part time.
I think you and I had talkedabout it, but there were some
other people that like splitposition stuff, like that.
So I wanted to go part time andthen you know, when the time
comes, you can pick up more.
Great, you can pick up more.
But at least while my son wasyoung, I wanted to be home with
(21:03):
them.
Yes.
I can sympathize with that and,as Kelsey just said, um, we were
both working at the same timeat the same place and both
wanting to work part time andthe group we worked for.
It was very wild to considerthat anyone could work part time
.
And this was what like 2018 ishmaybe and Kelsey just started,
(21:23):
not a year before that and thatsort of push and pull of wanting
more time, more family time,took you and I both in separate
directions.
I left to go to a part time jobthat I'm still at now and you
left to find a differentsolution.
And just tell us a little bitabout that transition for you
and where you thought you weregoing to go and how it ended up.
(21:45):
Um, so one of the certain thingsthat I wanted to do was I was a
surgeon that had been at thathospital was moving to a
different hospital that, only atthe time, had two ORs, only had
one functioning, uh, with thename of a cesiologist.
Every day, like three o'clockwas late for them to work.
You were out before three, thatwas.
They said we want to bring AA'scause.
(22:07):
He was going over there.
He did a lot of cases in oneday, so it would be mainly
working for him.
There was a couple of othersthat went there, but it would
largely be working for him.
Did all the credentialing, didall that stuff?
I mean, I was fullycredentialed at the hospital.
I had put in my three monthsnotice Um, that was the
requirement on my contract andit got down to like three weeks
(22:33):
before that three months was upand they were like ooh, the
hospital board decided that weneed to build more ORs to make
this financially a smartdecision, which I was like yeah,
I could have told you that twomonths ago, like I didn't see
how this was working.
But so now my job had beenfilled, because obviously you
(22:57):
know they needed to fill it inthat time and I was without a
job.
And then the story continueswhere we're going.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I mean just a reallytumultuous time.
I mean I, it was a tumultuoustime to be a CAA in, kind of our
little area.
(23:17):
I do think CAA is kind of youkind of only know what's real
for, like the people rightaround you, because CAAs are
kind of in pockets.
I feel like and yeah, it wasjust a really stressful time.
One of the main hospitals thathires CAAs and is also our main
training site, it was just ahuge transition period.
There was a bunch of CAAs there.
(23:37):
We wanted different things.
People were leaving, like CRNAswho had been there forever were
leaving.
Like it was just a time whenpeople were trying to find a
better fit for themselves.
But I would say I didn't knowany of this, so it felt like the
rug probably was getting pulledout from underneath you, I'm
assuming, Kind of.
I mean, like I said, from thebeginning I had kind of been
(23:59):
like I just don't understand howthis is making sense for them.
But I went with it.
You wanted it to work.
Yeah, we were kind of we wantedthese like things that could be
different to work out.
Yeah, and talk to me a littlebit about the state that you
were in when you lost that joband personally, your life was
(24:21):
getting harder.
You said talk to me about, like, what was going on for you
behind the scenes at that time.
So I'm going to leave a lot ofthe background alone.
I'm going to describe theoverall situation and it's not
something.
None of this is secret, None ofthis is.
I'm happy to talk to anyoneindividually, but I'm just not
(24:43):
going to like throw it all outthere.
But my marriage was gettingharder from the second we not
the second but shortly after Ihad my son, you know, we had a
stress of a new baby.
We bought a house.
I'm graduating school for thisnew stressful job.
So I was drinking a lot.
(25:08):
I was drinking most nights andspring of 19 is when I just
didn't want to go home anymore.
That's not even the right wayto put it.
My son is my everything, Alwayswanted to be there with him,
Didn't want to go to go home tothe husband.
So, yeah, he, we both had aproblem and I never, never drank
(25:36):
at work, never went to workhungover.
It wasn't, you know, gettingdrunk every night, but it was
absolutely using it asmedication to stop what was
going in my going on in my headfrom work and imagining going
(26:01):
home.
Yeah, Do you?
I think a lot of peoplelistening to you right now are
like, well, I drink every nightwhen I come home from work too.
Can you share how it feltdifferent, and were you drinking
(26:22):
before this, more casually, andyou kind of felt yourself
drinking more and more todisconnect?
Yeah, absolutely I mean.
Yeah, I drink before you know,have people over, have some
drinks.
Or yeah, you go to a chiefsgame, have some drinks.
This was not.
This was literally leaving workbeing like I'm um, God, it's a
(26:49):
hard feeling to describe, butliterally that's just looming
doom.
That I felt like I was beingchoked and what was going to fix
it was drinking and like, not,you know, there's better ways to
cope, there's other things todo, and it wasn't in my head at
that moment.
(27:09):
That's all.
That was my only option thatwas going to fix it.
Were you aware of this at thetime where you're like gosh, you
just I'm using alcohol to cope,or was this something only in
hindsight that you now can seethe?
You know the track of it?
I think it was.
(27:35):
So I saw a therapist personallyand then we saw a couple of
marriage counselors together andI think it was.
I think it was January of 19.
So, like I said, I didn't.
This was before my drinking waswhere it got and before I had
put in my notice and everything.
(27:55):
I think it was January of 19that I told him.
I was like I think I have adrinking problem and we talked
about it, talked about settingup more sessions, we talked
about I was going to get on alittle something for sleep,
because I wasn't sleeping at all.
My son woke up five times anight until 11 months old.
I remember that.
(28:15):
Yeah, I remember you telling methat.
Yeah, oh my God.
And then slept through thenight at 11 months old and I was
like, is he dead?
Like oh gosh.
Yeah.
But I remember that session sovividly.
I just threw it out there.
I was like I think I have aproblem.
So I started working with them.
Before it got to the point itdid, did this all come to a head
(28:43):
?
Like all the storms kind ofcoalesced at the same time, like
was that the lowest point?
Oh, I took the little campfireand poured gasoline on it.
So I filed the final divorcespring of 19, right when I was
applying for the other jobquitting, my first job was
(29:08):
taking care of our son.
We had a large house, three dogs, a bunny, the 74 hours a week
of work, to say it in the bestway possible, I was absolutely
burning the candle at both ends,exhausted, dying, not
(29:31):
communicating with anyone, justputting on a smile every day and
everything was fine and nothingwas fine.
None of it was working.
So it was end of June, justabout my last day at my first
job, came home from work we wereon like a peel system that day.
(29:54):
I got off like really early Iwas in early numbers, so I got
off like one, two o'clock Ithink, picked up my son from
daycare, we went to the park,the water park splash pad thing.
We stocked a quick trip.
On the way home he got anosebleed.
I remember just losing it overthis nosebleed, something like
(30:15):
totally fine and it was like adry air nosebleed and I just
really like losing it.
And our house was right downthe street taking there start
making dinner.
Call his dad I'm like you gotto come over here.
We got to figure out thedivorce terms.
I'm exhausted.
(30:37):
He came over, some alcohol washad and things got physical.
I leave and I get a DUI.
Was leaving to go to my dad's.
But, like I said, I may leave.
Some of those details of thatstory I'm happy to talk to him
that anyone that wants to butleaving get a DUI.
(31:00):
So now I'm like cool, now I amjobless because they had just
decided, literally like the weekprior, that they need to build
more hours.
Can't go back to that onebecause my pre the one with you
because they had hired peopleand let's get a brand new DUI.
(31:21):
Husband takes my son, my mentalfalling apart gets even worse
and I get a second DUI in a week.
So I wake up the next morningfrom that one and I'm like okay,
(31:43):
my life is either gonna getreally bad or I've got to change
just about everything in it.
And luckily I have an amazingsupport system, because I don't
think it's possible without that.
I decided to change everysingle thing in my life but it
(32:04):
very easily, very easily, couldhave gone the other way.
I just feel.
I just feel that terrible,terrible place you were in.
If I want to go back there, Istill can and I can remember
like very specific days exactlyhow I felt and stuff like that,
(32:27):
and I don't want anyone to everfeel like that alone.
I'm very fortunate, even withthe number of people I had
around, there were still daysthat I was like I'm the only one
that's ever done this and likeit just it takes you down bad
places.
(32:47):
I just.
I could go on about thatforever, but I don't want anyone
to feel like that alone becauseit's not it's a horrible place.
It takes a lot of bravery toshare that story and I really
want to acknowledge truly howgrateful I am that you are
(33:09):
willing to share your story, andwe had talked before this and
you had said that that you hadfelt so alone and so alone
within our profession that, likeyou, must be the only one this
has ever happened to, and Iwould love for us right now to
(33:29):
kind of help others feel lessalone, and I think the way to do
that is to share some of thestory of you coming out on the
other side and to where you arenow and I know it's like the
worst moment of your life, beingright at the point where you
(33:51):
have two fresh DUIs, you don'thave a job, you're, you feel
completely alone.
What do you do?
How do you move forward?
What did you do or maybe wishyou did?
There were good choices in bed.
I hope others reach out or likeknow that they have resources
(34:11):
to go and check into things,because I feel like I was a
little bit of a tester.
Some things worked well andthen some things, you know they
didn't hurt me, but that nextmorning definitely I was like
clearly an issue.
People without issues don't gettwo DUIs in a week and a half
(34:34):
Immediately enrolled andoutpatient started like I think
the next day or something.
Can you say a little bit morejust what outpatient is for the
people who are listening, whoare like wait what?
Yeah, so obviously there'sinpatient versus outpatient.
Like alcohol rehab, outpatientwas three hours a day, three
times a week, basically a group.
(34:55):
They do little lessons andstuff, but a lot of it was also
talking.
It's building a community, it'schecking in, it's a lot about
that and they kind of pick yourtimeline.
I didn't end up saying I thinktheirs was like 16 weeks, I
think, and something at like 12weeks.
They told me like you're good,I also was doing a lot of other
(35:19):
things, so I didn't stay thewhole time and then and you
chose, you elected to govoluntarily into outpatient.
Yeah, there were several thingsI did just automatically by
choice, and that was one of themwas outpatient.
I immediately called mycounselor and was like we need
to start talking a lot moreObviously, immediately got
attorneys for my choices andthen started reaching out.
(35:41):
I actually reached out to kindof a large amount of medical
professionals I think majoritywere doctors that I knew and was
very honest.
I always here's what happened,what do I do now?
And one of them was and this isa really good resource and I
don't want to say like, don't godo this or do this One of them
(36:03):
was I did go up to there's theMissouri Health.
I should have looked this upbefore the podcast.
It was the Physician Healthprogram.
Yeah, yeah.
Up in Chicago and I did go upthere because one of the docs
had suggested, like, go up there, get an evaluation from them
and see Normally, like that'ssomething that's mandated.
(36:24):
Like once you were, if I had ahearing with the Missouri Board
of Arts, like they could havedecided, hey, you need to go up
there and do it inpatient, hey,you need it, or go up there and
get an eval and whatever theysay, that's what you do.
I chose to go up there, likeimmediately, and I think I
should have just taken a fewdays to think.
(36:45):
So, yeah, I did that outpatient, started seeing my therapist
all the time.
Obviously, court dates and suchstarted happening.
Oh, the other voluntary was Istarted taking a breathalyzer
four times a day, every day.
Mainly.
A lot of these things were atthe time I was focusing on
(37:07):
getting my son back because myhusband was not letting me see
him, but this is also what endedup helping me keep my license,
because I had two years of proof, a year and a half by the time.
I had to reapply for my licenseand I had to come back for
(37:31):
everything of here.
I got sober, I've been sober.
You know, I have a commitmentto stay sober and you guys are
welcome to follow me however youwant.
And they looked at all my stuff.
We had a hearing at one pointand they said you know we're
(37:53):
really proud of you.
We hope you know to support youin toward and that's yeah.
Yeah.
Because we talked aboutbeforehand sort of what we
wanted the outcome of thisepisode.
I really wanted to drawattention to that timeline and
to some of these moving pieces,because there is so much nuance
(38:17):
to Kelsey's story and toeveryone's story.
But there's also some bigpieces and some governing bodies
that I think I've never heard aCAA discuss before, especially
in this way, like when it comesto our license, especially if
you're disputing some sort ofclaims made against you or you
have like an outpractice claimor some of these really hard to
(38:40):
talk about topics, because if wedon't ever hear someone who
sounds like us and is in oursituation talk about it, it's
really hard to know what to do,which I don't want to put words
into your mouth, but it feelslike that you, unfortunately you
said it you're the tester.
You're almost like the testsubject, not that this is the
first person that's everhappened to, but it's the first
person you knew about, becausewe're not talking about this and
(39:02):
that's what Kelsey and I reallywanted to do in this episode.
So I just wanted to draw alittle bit of attention.
Kelsey had said that she went upto Chicago to get an assessment
and oftentimes that assessmentcan come in if there's an
infraction from a hospital.
If there's some sort of legalissue, like a DUI, that your
hospital or your privateanesthesia group or whoever
finds out about, like the, yourlicensing body, you can, as part
(39:26):
of the process of like, okay,what do we do, what's the
treatment, and also to show thatthere's progress being made,
because we are such in aprofession that you need to be
your healthiest to be deliveringanesthesia.
They'll say, you know, go getthis assessment and the
assessment's going to tell allof us okay, the best thing for
you is to go to inpatientrecovery or outpatient recovery,
(39:47):
or you don't need recovery orthere is a problem, and kind of
gets just some language and somelike validity behind the
situation.
That was the first thing Iwanted to just point out.
And then Kelsey is also talkingabout here several layers of
people who need to know thatthat Kelsey was in recovery and
(40:07):
that Kelsey had DUIs.
And one of the people shementioned are the healing arts,
which is referring to theMissouri Board of Healing Arts,
which is in Missouri, kelseysaid, the particular governing
body, a state institution thatgrants CAAs the licensure in
Missouri.
It's not called that in everystate, which is how you know,
the language can be sometimesconfusing.
(40:28):
And that's the governing bodythat Kelsey was saying she, her
license came due in the state ofMissouri in 2021.
And that on that questionnairewhere they say have you had any?
What's the language?
Like a felonies or it says oneof them specifically states a
(40:49):
substance abuse.
Okay.
Yeah, okay, and that's where youstated yes.
And then I assume they asked fora whole bunch more details.
And then they take the MissouriBoard of Healing Arts takes all
of this in consideration togrant the CAA, CAA their license
for that two year period.
That's how it runs in Missouri.
(41:10):
Very similar situation in everyother state.
It just might not be called theMissouri Board of Healing Arts,
but it's usually whoever givesthe licensure to the physicians
that governing agency is whogives it to CAAs.
And I will say, like on thatone, when I did that in 2021,
like I said then, at that pointI had, you know, almost two
(41:31):
years, year and a half, twoyears of four times a day
alcohol tests Actually anothertopic we'll get on at some point
there was a time period I hadan alcohol monitoring bracelet
on.
I sent all that with.
So it was like sending in thatpacket with my licensure stuff
(41:53):
and I actually was immediatelygranted that the hearing was not
from that.
Thank you, yeah, okay, everyonehas told me, like you
absolutely would have had ahearing probably if I didn't
have that stuff, but it's kindof like making those changes is
what kept my license, I think.
(42:18):
Tell me the other question in myhead was how did you know where
to get a breathalyzer?
Was that some of that physiciancolleagues that you were
calling in for resources andlike asking questions where they
saying, hey, this thing youcould do is get a breathalyzer,
this thing you could do is getan alcohol monitoring?
How did you know what to do?
That would be calleddesperation and Google.
(42:38):
That's all it was.
It was trial and error and Iended up very fortunate with the
choices I made.
Again, I'm happy to give someof this information or talk to
anyone about it.
It literally was justdesperation.
In Google, I was determinedthat I was gonna get my son back
(43:02):
immediately from this and itwas driven by that motherhood
thing first, and then yeah, andthen keeping.
I mean, now we haven't evengotten to either.
Now I'm too Fresh.
Duis and no job yeah, let's getinto that, because it this is a
two-year almost period, or youknow year and some change
(43:24):
between the DUIs and theMissouri Board of Healing Arts
in 2021, which I'm assuming waslike kind of a big relief that
they granted your licensure.
And then there was, of course,some follow-up issue with them
with what's the term?
The, the infraction, anonymouscomplaint.
Yeah, yeah, the anonymouscomplaint, yes, which is kind of
a whole separate thing, so wecan kind of leave that lie,
(43:45):
although I'm sure it obviouslywas not just some little thing
for you.
But in that period, how are youworking?
How did you get a job?
Were you nervous about that?
How to talk to me about that,because that seems very
overwhelming.
Yeah, it was more thanoverwhelming.
It, like I said, everything wasimploding at the same moment and
it was just.
It is exactly I it's.
(44:08):
This is gonna sound so cliche,but it literally was like one
foot in front of the other andlike that's all I could do was
like just make one choice.
And then, because if I thoughtabout everything, it was
exhausting, every it wasexhausting.
But I Remembered that my currentjob remembered from school I
(44:32):
had rotated there in school thatthey had transition Oles and
they had Temporary and they hadPira and like just large company
that has a wide variety ofShifts, and I knew I was gonna
have a lot of things coming up.
There was gonna be court datesand the war states and Things
(44:54):
that I had to do.
So I called the doctor that Iknew, that worked there and that
Did a lot of the recruiting andstuff.
He was involved in it and laidit all out there.
I just said it.
I said everything becausethat's what the few docs I had
talked to about where to go nexthad told me.
Like Honestly, if you getcaught in any lies in any of
(45:15):
this, you're now, you're done.
But so just honestly, like,even on all those, every
hospital form, I still have toread them very specifically
Because some say, like in thelast five years, or some say you
know felonies, none of minewere felonies.
You just have to like you needto pay attention.
(45:37):
And I called him, I laid it allout there, everything I said,
the situation surrounding whathappened, said you know why I
was jobless, like I hadn'tgotten fired or anything.
And they were like absolutelycome on out.
Obviously I had interviewingand we still did all the things.
(45:59):
They several remembered me assoon, not all them, they have a
lot of students but coupled inand I started working there
because my license was stillgood with Missouri.
But I didn't even know Until itwas about three months, might
have been six months.
Three to six months after I wasworking there I got a letter in
(46:21):
my mailbox.
I was like, hey, your temporaryprivileges have been granted to
full hmm, I.
Don't know if it was because theDUIs, because I'm sure, like
the transitions, I'm sureeveryone, with how fast they do
credentialing, has sometemporary time period.
But I just remember gettingthat letter and being like I
(46:41):
didn't even think about that's,probably like they had been
watching, yeah, which rightfullyso.
But I Just I was up front andhonest and I worked hard and
just did the things I wassupposed to do.
And then now my littleTemporary job.
I just took it just to getthrough like, oh, I'll just get
(47:02):
through a little bit ofcoordinates and stuff.
I've been there five years nowand yeah of it, yeah, there was
some something there that madethem say yes, I Assume you know
some sort of resonance there.
I also think you were a kick-assstudent, so that helps and
having good relationships withpeople while you're in school.
You never know where thoserelationships are gonna then
(47:23):
step in and be your bridge tosafety, especially when you're
at one of the lowest points ofyour life, and so I just think a
lot of lessons to learn thereand Also interesting, that is
still the place that feels likewhere you're supposed to be.
I'm I'm curious how lifesettled down or when you're at
(47:45):
now with your health and yourwell-being, and like that
relationship with being a CAA,like where Do you feel like the
last five years have taken you,that I Like to say like, oh, I
would do it all over again toget to the same spot.
Um, I'm not sure about that.
I was not, uh, no, but it was alot of things that needed to
(48:12):
happen and I know that sounds soweird, but like I Wouldn't have
left my marriage if it wasn't Ihad forced Um, and that needed
to happen and I needed to talkto someone a lot about a lot of
things.
I think everyone should talk toa counselor, but I needed, like
(48:34):
more, and this gave me thatintense.
You know, I was in theoutpatient so three times a week
for three hours and then alsoseeing a Psychologist and like
there was a lot of talking andmy family didn't grow up talking
, like my parents were veryloving I'm not saying that but
like you didn't talk aboutfeelings.
So just some of that, just itneeded to happen and I think
(48:56):
it's made me into the mom I amtoday and the you know, employee
I am today, because I justthink more that needs to happen,
a lot more talking, mmm, andI'm just thinking also like the
CAA profession was like Part ofthe problem.
You know, like it added to thestress and to the to the drama
(49:20):
in terms of like the jobs andbeing stressed about the job,
but it was also the thing that,like where else can you work PRN
here and there around courtdates and things and make enough
money to still live?
You know, nehmeen, like I justthink the CAA profession we just
have a gift in front of us withit, and I just think that more
(49:41):
of this type of conversation andmore communication about the
hard parts Allow all of the goodparts of it to really thrive
for us and be used by us.
And I just wonder what youwould say about, like, how the
CAA profession could improve orwhat's, what's the takeaway,
what's something we work towardsas a profession after this
experience, I could go on aboutthat for a long time, especially
(50:06):
, though, um, I have told I meanprobably not the entire company
, but several people where Iwork now Like I would not have a
job if it was not for thiscompany.
So at the time, there was onlyabout four people.
There had to be a couple,because I actually At one point
like had to leave work sometimesduring the day, and so a couple
(50:29):
of the board right now.
I had to know why I'm leavingwork.
Mm-hmm, like to do some of thethings that were required of you
during this process, you had tokind of be able to have supreme
flexibility.
Yeah, yeah and.
You know, not talking down atall about where we were working
together, but there was whatnine of us there a day, like
(50:52):
there's not extra people and I'mnot saying our company always
has extra people right now, likethis was an extreme
circumstance, obviously, so youcan't do this for 110 people.
But I do think more of aconversation needs to be had
about Because I looked at a tonof jobs and, let's be honest, I
(51:13):
think a lot of us look all thetime.
I look just to see what thereis.
I'm not, let's just say wellinformed.
Yeah, I, there's not another jobI could have taken, even like
Other PRN ones.
They'd be like, yeah sure, giveus your Schedule three months
in advance.
I can barely tell you next week, not now.
(51:36):
Now I can, but, but then I waslike I can barely tell you
what's happening next week, likeI can't tell you three months
in advance.
They were supremely Forgivingand kind and but in this, like I
don't want to make this soundeither I mean I know they were
watching me, I know you knowthere was safeguards in place.
(52:00):
There was.
It can be an and both.
You don't just because you'rekind and trusting and forgiving
doesn't mean you also don't havehigh standards and your whole.
You're watching and your care.
You know what I mean.
Like I just think that thatthat Separation doesn't have to
be there, yeah, and I just thinkmore needs to be talked about.
But how we can find supportingmental health and what's going
(52:25):
on in people's lives whileMaking healthcare still function
, yeah, yeah, because I meanthat was one thing like I was
talking about where you know ourprofession doesn't really allow
for things to coexist as like.
This is my job and the rest oflife is over here, so there
would be time for me to go backand talk about my health.
So there would be times I'mlike Falling apart, dying inside
(52:50):
, probably crying in thebathroom, and then coming out
and like smiling and talking topatients, taking care of them,
and I think that's a lot of whatdoesn't work in healthcare.
Yes, is I.
I think that's where peoplestart feeling alone, that's
where people start havingtroubles after work.
That's where and I think that'swhere it starts.
Hmm it's, then we have to figureout, like, how you can separate
(53:13):
it and function at work, butalso how you get help you need
before you're here.
And when do you think thatbridge is?
Is there any insight?
I have my own ideas about thatbridge, but Anything that you
feel like if we just had this orif it was just this way,
because one of the Privileges Ithink about being a CAA and one
(53:35):
of our strengths, which many seeas a weakness, but I'm like
there's only 3500 of us.
We could almost, when you go tothe quad a, you're you're
talking to almost a Quarter ofall CAA's ever and so we can
make change.
You know, we could say this iswhat it feels like and looks
like and this is how CAA'scommunicate, and you could get
that message out far easier thanfor CERNAs or docs or, you know
(53:58):
, nurses.
Any insights I'm looking for?
I just I would love a magicpill answer or a conversation
about it.
I know, I Know.
That's why now I'm like man.
I mean, I think our companydoes a really great job.
They have a whole wellnessboard.
They send out that.
You know, they send out thatstuff.
That's just.
(54:19):
That's gonna be a really hardquestion because overall I think
it's just my thing, I think ishealthcare in general and just
the mental health crisis ingeneral.
I think that has to getdestigmatized.
But then, especially in ourprofession, like I don't know if
I would have gone and said likeI'm starting to have a drinking
problem, would there have beenlike repercussions, what they
(54:42):
have started watching me at work.
Would they start out where,like, like I said I never drink
at work, I never.
But Would they be supportive ifyou came and said I think I'm
starting to have a problem?
Yeah, yeah, I don't know you.
So you so tapped on where Ifeel like we could Improve,
(55:02):
which is we could, just we couldsay we could do the really hard
work and say what it means tobe a CAA is that you can always
go to the other CAA's and say Ifeel like I'm having a problem
with alcohol, like something'swrong, I'm overwhelmed.
You know you could have thoseconversations because our
profession Encourages that onall the levels.
When you're a student, the youknow the quad a, does the
(55:25):
program directors Like I thinkthat is the opportunity for
change.
And then you also saidsomething about Communication
and feeling like you have acommunity.
I just feel like we couldreally lean into our small size
as a way to like.
Let's bring us all in, let'sget it real tight up in here.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, because health care isbroken.
(55:48):
I mean there's no way around it.
Everyone understands the healthcare system is broken and being
a CAA inside a broken systemWill only make your health worse
unless you are your best,healthiest, most resource, more,
most supported.
And I do think that's ourprofessions and that's one of
the things we could do is wecould say that's what our
profession, you know, holds as avalue.
(56:10):
Well, and I even wanted toexpand it out we keep talking
about alcohol, obviously,because that's what I was
dealing with, but you know, wehave those lectures in school
and stories keep coming up about.
There is the you know, narcoticabuse, absolutely, and that's
what we're around all the time.
And I think, same thing likehow, how do we stop it before
(56:33):
you're at the point of gettingto you eyes or Getting caught
stealing from work, like how doyou stop it at the beginning?
And I think that's gonna be anongoing conversation.
But, like you said, I Do thinkwe have an awesome opportunity
to just support each other, andI think that's the big part is
(56:54):
supporting each other and kindof coming in and like finding
out the real of how do we helpyou, yeah, and investing our
time and energy at that spot,knowing there's this whole
anecdote, I like, about upstreamproblems versus downstream
problems, and like putting youreffort into the upstream
solutions and so you're puttingyour effort into what feels like
(57:15):
soft skills, communication andempathy and connection.
But really, if you're strongthere, then the downstream
problems become minimized or youreach out for help earlier, and
so I mean there's just so manymore things to say, but I just
what you're doing today with meis the answer.
This is the answer, I think, andI just I just am incredibly
(57:39):
grateful for your bravery andyou reached out to me and I
think also I didn't ask you this, but you had kind of said that
like no one really knew that youwere going through all of this
and I was really close to youand I didn't know.
I knew life was hard.
I knew life was hard, but I didnot know the depths of this,
and there's something to beimproved there as well, on my
(58:03):
own relationships with peopleand just, of course, then it
gets bigger and bigger.
The eccentric circles getbigger and bigger.
That we could improve.
Yeah, I'm just really gratefulfor you, kelsey, and I just I'm
just in awe of you and I'm soproud to be getting this story
and being able to send it out toour community.
Is there anything else that wedidn't touch on, any parting
(58:26):
words that you feel like youwant to have left said here?
I guess this has been it wastrusting me out a lot, not.
I, like I said, I'm very, veryopen and I'm happy to talk to
anyone, and I really do hopethat anyone that sees this like
happy to talk to you aboutanything, whether you want to
hear more of my story, whetheryou need help, whether you need
(58:48):
to talk about something else,perfectly fine, I'm happy to,
and that's why I wanted to dothis, because it's not only
helping me just kind of move onand keep growing past this.
But I want other people to knowlike you've got choices.
It can go really bad.
I'm not saying it can't, it can.
But you can keep your job, turnit around, you can be happy in
(59:10):
your profession, happy in yourlife, and get past these hard
parts that go on.
Yes, and normalizing the hardthat's going to happen.
Yeah.
How could people get in contactwith you?
If they do want to follow upwith you Email phone any way
(59:33):
they want, maybe we don't giveyour phone number out to the
internet?
Maybe, not by phone.
You're welcome to put my emailat the bottom or, if you want to
say it either way, which I'mfine with that, are you on
social media much?
I feel like we communicateoccasionally over there.
Yeah, no, I'm on Instagram.
Facebook, I'm on everything.
Okay, would that be okay ifpeople kind of reach out there?
(59:54):
Okay, absolutely, of course.
Good, I'll put that all in theshow notes, all right, kelsey?
Well, what are you doing therest of your day?
I'm getting ready to.
I am a big stickler about Imake Paxton's cake every year.
This year, I finally chosesleep over baking all night, so
I bought the cake.
Yes, I'm decorating it.
(01:00:15):
So I'm going to go decorate thecake.
Good, awesome.
Well, that sounds like awonderful thing to do after this
really hard thing.
That you did is celebrate.
You celebrate him and kind ofthe life that you're enjoying
now.
So I really appreciate you,kelsey, and we'll talk soon.
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode.
(01:00:38):
If this is the first time you'rehearing of a CAA discuss their
struggle with substance usedisorder, you are likely not
alone.
I don't think it's a topic wetalk about much, but it is a
topic that CAAs struggle with.
The disease of substance usedisorder is rampant in the
anesthesia profession, whichincludes CAAs, but it's been
(01:01:02):
more highly documented in ourCRNA colleagues and our
anesthesiologist colleagues.
So not hearing about it cansometimes feel like this isn't
happening to us, but afterhearing Kelsey's story and
possibly other stories thatyou've heard just kind of
through the grapevine or throughpeople at work, you know that
(01:01:23):
Kelsey is not alone in herstruggle and Kelsey's bravery in
sharing her story, I hope,reminds us all that there's so
much value in connection andsharing ourselves and reaching
out when you feel like you wantto crawl inside yourself, and
I'm just so grateful again toKelsey If you would like to
(01:01:44):
follow up with her and connectwith her.
She's allowed me to share heremail, which is
kelseyjanceyahoocom, and Italked to Kelsey some on
Instagram so she said she'spretty active there.
Her handle is atK-E-L-S-E-Y-J-O-333.
(01:02:06):
And, of course, kelsey Jance atyahoocom and Kelsey Joe 333.
That contact information isgoing to be in the show notes.
Like Kelsey so eloquently said,she's wondering how we help each
other, how we help ourselves insubstance use disorder and
navigating a stressful careerlike being a CAA, like giving
(01:02:29):
anesthesia, and how weintertwine our personal and
professional lives.
I'm wondering the same thingand, if you like, kelsey and I
are wondering where do we gofrom here, I would love to
connect with you.
This is certainly something Iam passionate about and so if
you are a CAA or AA student, oreven a prospective AA who knows
(01:02:49):
you're going to get into AAschool and you want to be really
boots on the ground of thismovement that I'm trying to
start within our profession, youcan contact me at
awakenedanesthetistcom.
Another great resource, to say,connected to myself and
anything that may be going on inthis wellness, well-being,
(01:03:10):
preventative, mental healtharena is by getting on my email
list, which is also a link thatyou can find in the show notes.
And I've also started a newconnections group.
It's called Making Connections.
We meet once monthly on Zoomfor an hour and it's my first
attempt at creating anopportunity for CAAs to get
(01:03:32):
together outside of work,outside of school, outside of
the Quad A just a place whereCAAs can feel safe, in community
with each other, talking aboutsome deeper topics, really
meeting each other where we are.
And it's called MakingConnections because I'm wanting
us to create a deeper connectionwith ourselves and with each
(01:03:55):
other.
So I invite you to that monthlygroup and you can find more
information once you sign up formy email newsletter and tell me
that you're interested inmaking connections.
If you loved this episode andfeel like it's important to
share, like I feel like it'simportant to share, I would be
really grateful if you wouldjust send this off to another AA
(01:04:16):
student or fellow CAA in yourlife.
Tell them why the storyimpacted you, tell them why you
like this podcast and have themlisten to this episode.
And that's really how ourcommunity is going to spread in
the way we want it to spread,which is keeping CAAs in this
community connected and growingtogether.
(01:04:37):
That happens so much easierwhen it's a direct conversation
from CAA to CAA.
So I really appreciate yourhelp in supporting the podcast
and the message and mission ofthis podcast.
I think that's it for me If youare going to the Quad A, so if
you're listening in real time, Iwill see you April 12th and I'm
excited to share more on thistopic.
(01:04:59):
It was all just happenstancethat this topic was what we
discussed in my March Processepisode.
You may have picked up thatKelsey reached out to me and the
timing was really perfectbecause I will be speaking on
substance use disorder andlooking to solve those upstream
problems within our CAAprofession at the Quad A and
(01:05:19):
it's really a workshop and abrainstorm and us talking and
listening deeply to each other.
So we're going to be practicingall those wonderful things with
each other and trying to moveforward, because it's an
opportunity that can't be passedup, having so many CAAs and
students in the room together.
So I hope to see you at theQuad A 2024.
If you're listening in realtime and if this is sometime in
(01:05:42):
the future, I hope you sharethis episode with another CAA in
your life.
Alright, let's talk soon, y'all.
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