November 21, 2025 • 65 mins
A denied $10 raise shouldn’t define a career, but it can redefine one. When Rad hit a wall advocating for fair market pay, he realized the problem wasn’t personal, it was structural. So he built leverage instead of waiting for permission, and Harmony Anesthesia Staffing was born.
Connect with Rad radzamani@harmonyanesthesia.com
Great Resource HERE to understand all the terms in this episode (1099, W2, Locums, etc)
A HUGE 'Thank You' to the Season 5 PROCESS sponsor, Harmony Anesthesia Staffing.
Harmony is CAA-owned, clinician-forward, and leading the way in the CAA locums market. Schedule your free 15-min consult and see how locums can work for you. Say 'hi' to Rad and Sasi for me when you do!
You can now text me! Leave your email if you need a response!
Pre-AA Matters is a 12-week program designed to teach you the inner skills of being a CAA, and help you thrive in AA school. You’ll learn how to regulate your stress, navigate setbacks, communicate with confidence, and build the emotional resilience that will carry you from Pre-AA → CAA.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (03:36):
Before we get into today's conversation, I wanted
to take a quick timeout.
This is the moment before everyprocess episode begins where I
set the stage for who you'reabout to meet and why their
story matters for our CAAcommunity.
And actually, today's processepisode is deeply connected to
my season 5 flagship sponsor,Harmony Anesthesia Staffing.
(04:00):
You've already heard aboutHarmony's values and their
growth, but what you might notknow is that Harmony wasn't
created to be just anotherstaffing agency.
It was born from a real livedstruggle.
A moment when a CAA lookedaround at the way things were
and thought there has to be abetter way.
And instead of waiting for thesystem to shift, he decided to
(04:24):
build what he couldn't find.
That origin story is why Harmonyfeels so aligned with my work
here at Awakened Anesthetist.
Everything I talk about, livingintentionally, designing a life
that reflects your values,creating something that didn't
exist before.
Harmony is doing that inside ourCAA profession.
(04:45):
And today you get to meet theCAA at the center of that
beginning.
Harmony's founder, Rad Zamani.
If you are a CAA or SAA who hasever wondered what it really
looks like to step outside thetraditional path, to shift from
clinician to entrepreneur, tonavigate uncertainty, and to
(05:05):
choose alignment over comfort,this conversation is for you.
So with that, let's step intothis process episode with fellow
CAA and Harmony founder RadZimani.
SPEAKER_01 (05:18):
I would say that for anyone who's interested in
pursuing an entrepreneurialventure, and I know it sounds
cliche, but you really got todig deep and think of the why.
Why are you doing this?
What is your purpose?
If you don't have a mission andyou don't have a purpose, any
kind of financial success willnot be enough to sustain the
headwinds that you are going tobe facing, the disappointments,
(05:40):
the challenges, the grit thatyou need to have to persevere
those challenges.
You have to have a why.
SPEAKER_00 (05:52):
Welcome to the Awakened Anesthetist Podcast,
the first podcast to highlightthe CAA experience.
I'm your host, Mary Jean, andI've been a certified
anesthesiologist assistant forclose to two decades.
Throughout my journey andstruggles, I've searched for
guidance that includes my uniqueperspective as a CAA.
(06:12):
At one of my lowest points, Idecided to turn my passion for
storytelling and my belief thatthe CAA profession is uniquely
able to create a life by designinto a podcast.
If you are a practicing CAA,current AA student, or someone
who hopes to be one, I encourageyou to stick around and
experience the power of being ina community filled with voices
(06:36):
who sound like yours, sharingexperiences you never believed
possible.
I know you will find yourselfhere at the Awakened Anesthetist
Podcast.
Welcome in.
Let's start off with sort of adeeper question, which is what's
something that most people getwrong about you and your
(06:58):
entrepreneurial journey?
SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
That's a good question.
I think that there is amisconception that things are
easy when truly there is a largeburden of responsibility that
you carry.
If you truly care about yourcommunity and you have a
mission-driven, purpose-drivencompany.
And so, yes, it's it's it'sgreat to have success, but with
(07:24):
it comes its own hardships.
And that um burden of alwayswanting to over-deliver is
stressful.
And sometimes it's out of yourhands.
I mean, sometimes it's notsomething that can be
controlled, but you feel theresponsibility to do the right
thing.
And it's easy to do the rightthing when you can control all
the parameters.
(07:44):
It's hard when when sometimesthey're not completely in your
control.
So that I'd say that's that'sthat's a challenge.
So yeah, it's not always easy.
SPEAKER_00 (07:51):
Mm-hmm.
I'm so excited to get into therealness of this because I think
a lot of CAAs just heardthemselves when you said it's
it's nice to control when youcan control everything.
And I do feel like the CAAprofession has a large amount of
control.
It's like you want heart rate togo up, you give this drug, heart
rate goes up.
And yet there's this part to alot of us to maybe be creative
(08:12):
or to start something new or tomake a change in our profession.
It's like this juxtaposition ofwho we are.
Um, and it's so helpful to hearsomeone who's kind of gone
before and done it so that wecan all be expanded.
That's truly the purpose of thispodcast.
So I'm excited to get into yourstory.
Let's rewind a little bit andstart with who you were growing
(08:34):
up, your cultural background,your upbringing, like to help us
shape um an understanding of whoyou are.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:42):
So my origin story is I am a true immigrant.
My parents sacrificed a greatdeal to come to this country
from Iran.
And we came here when I wasapproximately eight years old.
My mom worked for the Iranianembassy.
Um, I was born in 1978.
(09:02):
So, right at the kind of heightof the revolution in Iran and
the regime change that hasoccurred, that's still ongoing
today.
And the plan was to always goback.
And so I remember in highschool, my dad would say, you
know, once the Ayatollah passes,then we're gonna head back to
Iran.
And we have a whole, you know,life there.
And my mom would say, We're not,we're not going back.
(09:23):
You know.
So my origin story is asuccessful story for immigrants.
I would say anyone who thinksthat the American dream is dead,
you know, I would I wouldchallenge them to have a
conversation with me because itit's not.
And so we grew up with, I wouldsay, looking up at middle class,
with my parents doing everythingthey could to provide a very
(09:44):
happy and fulfilling childhood.
And they did, they did thatamazingly, but with limited
resources because you know theycame to this country not doing
what they were trained andreally positioned to do their
whole lives, right?
So I've always had a bit of anentrepreneurial mindset just
because of my upbringing.
My parents uh owned everythingfrom what would be kind of a mom
(10:04):
and pop FedEx shop to uh anauto-repair shop to oriental rug
uh repair business.
I mean, so they've done multiplethings, and I was there along
the way and watched them do it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:15):
So I did not know that depth of your story.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
And I have a follow-up.
What would you define theAmerican dream as?
SPEAKER_01 (10:25):
I think the American dream is a social contract that
exceeds your expectations,right?
If you go to school and you dowell and you work hard, that
there should be a job and anopportunity and a lifestyle
available for you.
And I think a lot of countriesfail to deliver on that promise.
And I think the American dreamis a dream that's still very
(10:48):
much alive because it's exceededall of my expectations.
And that social contract hasbeen delivered.
SPEAKER_00 (10:55):
Well, let's talk about how you got to that
American dream because I guesssimilar to your parents, you
have done many things.
So maybe kind of give us a briefoverview as you build up into
going to CAA school.
And I have some questions foryou about how you um ended up
going to AA school, but yeah,tell us kind of all of the parts
(11:18):
of you leading up to AA school.
SPEAKER_01 (11:21):
So I graduated Emory undergrad in the year 1996,
which is you say that like itwas hundreds of years ago.
SPEAKER_00 (11:30):
In the year 1996.
SPEAKER_01 (11:32):
I'm going to my 25-year uh Emery reunion, so it
feels that way.
Yeah.
But you know, it was when themanaged care agenda was very
much front and center.
And so I remember sitting at thekitchen table with my parents
and one of our close friendswho's who happened to be at
OBGYN and contemplating uhmedical school uh because I was
(11:54):
I was always interested inmedicine.
And she was very adamant aboutdo not go to medical school.
It is not what it you envisionit to be.
And you should go intoadministration because that's
that's the future.
You know, it every healthcare isgoing to be managed by these
large organizations.
And you know what?
Fast forward, she wasn't wrong.
(12:15):
She wasn't wrong.
Her advice had a profound impacton me and my decision making at
that time to pursue maybe adifferent career path, still
medicine related, but maybehaving a little bit more
business, right?
So after Emory undergrad, Idecided to go to public health
school and get a degree in amaster's in healthcare
administration.
(12:35):
I went to the American Collegeof Healthcare Executives, the
ACHE is essentially the ASA forhealthcare executives.
SPEAKER_04 (12:41):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (12:42):
I went to their annual conference, met a partner
of a company that I thought wasoutstanding, and took a job with
them out of school.
So I thought I had my dream job.
This is what I wanted to do.
And here I am.
And then I had an aha momentwhen we're at one of our team
outings where the partner had tostep away from dinner uh to take
(13:04):
a phone call from hisfive-year-old daughter to wish
her a happy birthday.
And I thought, that's that's notthe future that I see myself in,
you know.
And so I decided to to pivot.
And I thought, well, I I I likethe smaller company because I
had received an offer from PriceWaterhouse Coopers and you know,
(13:24):
wasn't in love with the bigconglomerates.
So I decided to work with astartup company that a friend of
mine had started.
And it's called NerstarSolutions.
And NerfStar Solutions was ateleradiology company.
I knew nothing aboutteleradiology.
They hired me on as a directorof sales and marketing.
I knew nothing about sales andmarketing, but I said, yeah,
I'll figure it out.
(13:45):
And so I launched a new websitefor them and did some marketing
collateral for them, went onsales calls with them, and did
really well, surprisingly, eventhough my uh undergraduate
degree was in neuroscience.
So completely unrelated.
Um, but yeah, you just kind offigure it out as you go along.
And then at that time, when Iwas making the transition from
(14:08):
working for stock and impentassociates and working for
Neurostar, I had applied to theAA program because my dad had a
friend who was a CAA, and my dadsaid, Hey, you should talk to
this guy.
And I went and chatted him oneday and I was like, wow, this is
pretty, this is this is prettyneat.
And I can't believe I didn'tknow about this profession
(14:29):
having gone to Emery undergrad,right?
I mean, lit I literally walkedby the building like a thousand
times in undergrad and neverknew that the AA program even
existed in that building.
SPEAKER_00 (14:38):
But it was different time, different time.
SPEAKER_01 (14:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I loved it, and I thoughtthat the profession was
wonderful.
So I applied just to keep myoptions open, right?
And then uh, you know, lo andbehold, I got into the program
and had to make a decision anduh decided to pivot, you know,
to what I consider to be thegood guys, which is the
providers.
And so um, yeah, 20 almost 20years later, uh, here we are.
SPEAKER_00 (15:04):
Now, I sense this being a theme in your story,
like wanting to keep youroptions open because that seems
to be your mindset of like,okay, I'm always maybe is it an
itch to learn?
Is it an itch to like have adifferent impact on the world?
Like what made you think, well,you know, I'm pretty happy where
I am, but like, hey, let's applyto this entirely different
(15:25):
program.
And and mind you, we're notgonna skip past the fact that I
know that you forgot you appliedto AA school.
SPEAKER_01 (15:31):
So I'm we're gonna circle back, but yeah, you know,
I've always I'd like to keep myoptions open always because I
have have a lot of interests,you know?
And I felt like the AA programwas a way for me to dip my toe
into medicine, have a great dealof responsibility, and determine
whether I absolutely lovedmedicine before I committed
(15:53):
eight, 10 years of my life topursuing a career in medicine,
right?
And I also had asked when I wasin at the program, what is a
percentage of AAs that go on toget an MD and their acceptance
rate?
And it was like 100%.
Now, you know, they couldn'ttell me exactly how many had
done it historically, butthey're like, no, it's everyone
(16:14):
who's gone from AA school anddecided to pursue an MD as an
anesthesiologist, they've beenvery successful in doing so.
I was like, well, this is a a agreat conduit to doing that,
right?
Um, and so this was a way tokeep the options open.
And you know, I remember sittingdown with my dad and and coming
up with a pros and cons list ofA versus M D.
(16:38):
And I had so many otherinterests that I had that I felt
like I just wouldn't be able topursue those if I had gone the
MD route, if that makes sense.
Right?
Totally.
And so yeah, I felt I felt likethe AA program, and I it is
uniquely it's a very uniqueprofession in that when you step
out of the operating room, thework does not follow you home.
(17:01):
And you can, I feel like, designa career path as an AA that
gives you the opportunity topursue other interests that you
have, whether they're you know,creative or or business or or
whatever you want to do.
It's it's an outstandingprofession.
And and I I do feel like I needto give back to the profession
because it's done so much forme.
SPEAKER_00 (17:23):
I am right there with you, Rad.
I totally agree with that.
Um I just wanted to highlight alittle bit of just the culture
change around CAA school thatyou, like me and many people who
are of our CAA generation, werethinking, oh, I'm gonna go to
medical school.
Maybe not.
Okay, what's a CAA thing?
And my dad was a CAA, and I wasstill thinking, oh yeah, I'm
(17:45):
probably gonna go to medicalschool.
And then CAA was, it felt likethis backup, which is a
completely different experiencefrom those pre-AAs right now who
are wanting to get into AAschool.
And I think it's because thoseof us who are CAAs have done a
really good job explaining whatyou just explained, that you get
this time and life back.
And it is so deeply fulfillingin the role in in clinical
(18:09):
medicine.
You still get all of those likewonderful parts of clinical
medicine.
And so when I tell the listenersthat you initially told me that
you forgot you applied to AAschool, and then what you got an
interview, and you're like, oh,what's that thing?
Like that is sort of when youhad that conversation with your
dad.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_01 (18:27):
Yeah, you know, I so Emery was a client of the
company I was working for.
So Emery was a client ofNurstar.
And so when I got a call fromEmery, I thought it was a client
asking about the product andwanting to, you know, take the
next steps.
And I then quickly realizedthat, oh no, this is the Emery
(18:47):
AA program calling me for aninterview.
I was like, oh, I was like,sure, I'll come in for an
interview.
SPEAKER_00 (18:52):
Everyone's rolling their eyes right now, Rad at
you.
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
Well, and I remember calling my then girlfriend, now
wife, saying, Hey, I got the andshe was in medical school, by
the way.
Um, and I said, Hey, I I gotthis interview request.
What do you think?
And she was like, go and make adecision later.
You there's no decision to makeuntil you actually get in.
(20:11):
I was like, Yeah, that's true.
So then I went on the interview.
Don Biggs, David Bizzetti werethe two interviewers, you know,
they had the dual interviewers.
And, you know, lo and behold, Igot accepted.
And I was like, oh man, now Ihave to make a decision.
And honestly, the um the companythat I was working with,
Neurostar, was they thought Iwas insane.
They're like, you're you'reyou're quitting?
(20:34):
Like what?
You're doing like you're killinghere, you know?
Like, why would you give thisup?
And I was like, I think this iswhat I want to do.
Um and I and I am I'm the typeof person that I don't listen to
a lot of the noise.
I I tend to do what I feel likeis the right thing to do, which
I think has helped me in theentrepreneurial journey that
(20:57):
I've been on.
Because if you just listen to alot of the noise, it can be
deafening, right?
And you have to have convictionin your decision making in order
to pursue the life that youwant.
And so that's that's what I did.
SPEAKER_00 (21:11):
I would love for you to speak to the non-traditional
AA applicants right now who arelistening, which has, you know,
become like a category now forpre-AAs because you are the
epitome of that.
And I just would love for you tospeak to what it felt like as
having that non-traditionalpath, having all of that life
knowledge from your other rolesand your experiences and how AA
(21:35):
school felt for you versus maybehow you saw AA school for maybe
a more traditional colleague youhad in your program?
SPEAKER_01 (21:44):
Well, I think what's what's really attractive about
the AA profession at large isthat the work-life balance is
extraordinary.
You know, when you're in salesor consulting or in the business
sector, the work follows youhome.
You're always technically on,right?
I mean, we're talking about thedays when like Blackberries were
(22:04):
like a thing, you know, and thenI had your Blackberry and his
busting.
It never stops.
And working in the consultingworld for a revenue cycle
consulting company, yeah, it'dbe Saturday at four o'clock and
you get an email from, you know,your general manager and you
need to respond, even thoughyou're technically not on the
clock, right?
(22:25):
Whereas the AA profession, Imean, you step out of the
operating room and it is, it'sdone.
You've taken care of yourpatients, you've fulfilled your
duties for the day, and youdon't have to worry about doing
anything outside of you know, uhin your off hours, essentially,
right?
So you can pursue otherinterests.
It's it's it's so gosh, what'sliberating is probably the word
(22:49):
I can use, um, as a profession.
There's not a lot of professorsout there that allow that, you
know.
Even my wife as a physician isbeholden to committee meetings
and staff meetings and having agreat relationship with
administration.
And we're completely inoculatedfrom all of that, right?
(23:09):
And it's, I mean, it's amazing.
I tell people all the time ifHarvard Medical School's dean
were to show up in my front doortomorrow and tell me that I had
a full ride and could choose aresidency of my choosing, I'm
not the guy.
I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm notinterested.
You're gonna have to findsomebody else.
SPEAKER_00 (23:28):
Did you have a sense of that when you were a student
because you had seen thecounterpoint?
Like you had experienced theopposite of that lifestyle, and
so you just felt differently inschool and that kind of, you
know, like, well, I guess I'masking, what was school like for
you as a non-traditional AAstudent?
SPEAKER_01 (23:45):
Well, I think I was of the mindset of this is a
great profession.
I'm very grateful to be here.
This is a choice that I've made.
I gave up a successful careerpath to be here, and so I'm
gonna make the most of it.
Right.
So I do feel like, and I and I Ido agree with you, there's some
(24:07):
younger AAs who come into theprogram straight out of school,
straight out of undergrad, anddon't have that perspective.
And so that level of gratitudefor what you do have isn't
there, and it is a littlefrustrating sometimes because
it's like this is you're in agreat place.
(24:27):
And it's an exciting time to bean AA.
I there's never been a bettertime to be an AA.
And so, yeah, I think that thatprior life experience just gives
you a different perspective onum how good we have it, quite
frankly.
SPEAKER_00 (24:40):
Mm-hmm.
I totally agree.
And I was the person who cameright out of undergrad.
Um, you know, I didn't know whatI had until years into the
profession.
Hey Awaken Anessis community,jumping in here with some
(25:02):
behind-the-scene details thatfeel especially connected to
today's conversation with Rad.
When Rad and I were meeting forour very first discovery call to
prep for his process episode, heshared a moment that really
stuck with me.
Rad told me that this allstarted when he requested a$10
an hour raise, a raise thatsimply matched his market value,
(25:24):
his experience, and his skillset, and he was denied.
Of course, he said it feltdeeply personal at first.
These were his work colleagues,his work friends, telling him he
didn't have value.
But then he realized it wasn'tpersonal, it was professional.
And the only way he was going toget what he knew he needed was
to become his own advocate.
(25:46):
And honestly, that story isfamiliar to so many CAAs.
I've lived a version of thisstory myself when I wanted to go
part-time after years workingfor my private anesthesia group,
but I had no leverage.
I kept showing up to thenegotiating table, hoping
someone would see and honor whatI needed.
(26:08):
And when that didn't happen,after so much struggle, I
finally made the difficultdecision to leave altogether.
It felt personal too, until Irecognized the same truth as
rad.
I had to take my power back.
No one was going to recognize myvalue until I truly recognized
it.
This is exactly why HarmonyAnesthesia staffing exists.
(26:31):
Harmony was built by CAAs who'velived these stories.
CAAs who wanted a career thathonors themselves as a whole
clinician, not just as shiftcoverage.
Harmony's growth has comethrough trust, through
transparency, through CAAssaying, I want something
different and I deserve it.
So if you're at a point in yourcareer where you want more
(26:53):
flexibility, more alignment,more agency, and you don't want
to leave the profession youlove, Harmony may be your path
forward.
You can schedule a 15-minuteconsultation directly with Rad
using the link in the shownotes.
It's a no-pressure conversationabout how working locums can be
the answer you are looking for.
And honestly, it might be themoment you start taking your
(27:16):
power back too.
All right, let's jump back intoRad's process episode.
So walk us through just theearly days of your career.
Um, I actually don't know if youever worked somewhere completely
(27:39):
like a normal W-2 full-time, orif you jumped straight into
1099.
We probably should define someof these terms as well.
SPEAKER_01 (27:47):
So, great question.
I started off with a groupcalled Georgia Anesthesiologist
at Kenistone Hospital inMarietta, Georgia.
I took the job because, quitefrankly, a number of my
classmates took a job there.
So it's kind of comfortablegoing in with a cohort of
friends, right?
And I was a volunteer at thathospital when I was uh in high
(28:10):
school.
So I was like one of those candystripers and volunteered in the
summer and you know, wield thepatients wherever they needed to
go.
And so, you know, the the siteand the hospital resonated with
me.
So I felt like it was a goodfit.
I did take a 1099 position withthem, which is very
untraditional.
Um, and the reason I did it wasbecause I was a little bit
(28:32):
brazen saying, well, I mean, Idon't really need your benefits.
I'm really young, like I don'tneed health insurance and this
retirement stuff you keeptalking about.
And I just want to pay off mystudent loans and make as much
money as I can.
And so back then, again, we'retalking 2007, I took a 1099
position with the group thatunfortunately offered that.
(28:53):
And 1099 essentially is just anIRS classification of an
independent contractor versus aW-2, which is not an independent
contractor, you're an employeeof an employer.
So your employer would be thehospital or anesthesia group or
whoever.
Whereas a 1099 independentcontractor, you're the employee
and the employer.
So that's really essentially thedifference, and it's an IRS
(29:16):
classification.
So I took a job with them, but Iwas also very transparent, and I
said, my wife or my fiance atthe time is applying to
residency programs, and she hasapplied to Atlanta Medical
Center and Emory and some localplaces, but you know, in the
mass process, we don't knowwhere she's gonna go.
(29:36):
And so I actually um you know,pat myself on the back.
I didn't take the full sign-onbonus uh because I said I may be
gone in a year, and I don't wantto have to pay taxes um on a
bonus that I have to returnlater.
So I said, I'll commit to beinghere for a year, but then after
that I don't know what's gonnahappen.
And they're like, no, totallyunderstand.
(29:58):
And my wife got a residency inMacon, Georgia.
And so we moved to Macon.
And there I took a W 2 positionbecause 1099 was not available.
SPEAKER_04 (30:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (30:08):
So I took a W 2 position at a small hospital in
Macon.
Now it's called Piedmont Macon.
At the time it was an HCAhospital.
And I wanted to kind of do more,you know, my wife's in
residency.
She's working 100 hours a week.
I was like, I'm in Macon,Georgia.
What am I gonna do with myself?
So I thought, well, I I need togo to the sister hospital.
It's called Navison MedicalCenter, the Med in Middle
(30:32):
Georgia.
It's a 111 trauma center.
And the ATA hospital that I wasat was a little bit of a more
regional hospital.
So they sent all the big casesto the medical center.
And I was like, oh, I'm tooyoung in my career to just be at
these small.
I want I want the gnarly stuff,right?
I want the hard cases.
And so I started doing some PRNwork for them.
And when a position opened up, Iresigned at this regional
(30:56):
hospital and I took a W-2position at the big medical
center.
Um, and then fast forward fouryears, my wife's done with
residency, and she said, We areabsolutely not staying in Macon,
Georgia.
We need to go to a big city orsomewhere close to an ocean.
And we ended up back in Atlanta.
So that's a short, short story.
SPEAKER_00 (31:15):
And Atlanta, is that the hospital where Harmony was
born?
Like, is that where you wereworking when you had the idea
for Harmony?
SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
Yes.
So I came back to Atlanta andtook a job back at Kennestone
Hospital with Georgiaanesthesiologist.
And that's when Emory um had amassive comp reset uh where they
increased everyone'scompensation uh in order to
(31:44):
retain staff because it wasbecoming harder and harder to
recruit anesthesiaprofessionals.
So two rounds of WT raises, andI went to my friends, the
anesthesiologist that I workwith, and I said, Look, I do
cardiac for you guys, I donights, I do weekends, you know,
I'm super flexible.
I'd like to get an increase inmy rate because at the time,
(32:08):
again, I I went back to them asa 1099.
And I said, Oh, absolutely rad.
Uh, we'll talk about the nextboard meeting.
You know, one month goes by, twomonths go by.
Hey, you know, what's going onhere?
Can we revisit this?
Oh, I'm so sorry.
We'll talk about a next boardmeeting again.
Six months went by and I waslike, okay, I'm feeling like
(32:29):
maybe I'm not top priority here.
And I talked to a colleague, uh,which is still a friend, an
anesthesiologist friend of mine,and he said, you know, you
should really just go talk to anagency, they'll represent you
better, and you'll get moreleverage.
And I thought, okay, sure, letme do that.
Uh, I've never worked with anagency before.
I've always just gone directlyto the groups that I know, but
(32:52):
let me go talk to an agency.
And so I did that.
I reached out to some of the bignames that are out there, and lo
and behold, they didn't staffDAAs.
Or I'd go on their website andI'd click on the little
drop-down menu and it would sayCRNA and MDA.
So frustrating.
And I was like, why?
This is crazy.
(33:12):
And then on top of that, MaryJean, I'm the guy that they're
sending, and I'm not claiming tobe the best anesthetist.
I'm not like some superstaranesthetist.
I think I'm pretty good, but I'mnot like, you know, you know,
top tier by any means, right?
I mean, I'm not doing doing likepediatric hearts or anything
like that.
But but, you know, they theywould send me to get this locum
(33:35):
out of a room that wasuncomfortable being there
because you know, this locum hadbeen at outpatient centers that
was uncomfortable doing bellycases.
And I'm like, oh wow.
So these groups are paying apremium to agencies that are not
doing a very good job ofsourcing candidates.
So they're frustrated.
I'm having to go in there, oranother of my one of my
(33:56):
colleagues, and they're gettingfrustrated.
I was like, I can do thisbetter.
I can absolutely do this better.
So I kind of read the tea leavesand said, I'm gonna give this a
try.
And I and I 100% recognize theimportance of an agency because
you get the board's attention,you get the hospital system's
(34:17):
attention because you'reproviding a collective solution.
And it's not that the groupdidn't care about me, it's just
that they had bigger prioritiesto deal with, right?
And so when they are workingwith an agency that's providing
them a collective solution ofmaybe 10 FTEs.
You know, uh you, this oneindependent contractor, you
(34:37):
know, you're just not going tobe high priority for them
because they're working with abigger entity that's going to
solve a bigger problem for them.
SPEAKER_00 (34:44):
Yeah.
I know that that is such aresonant problem within all of
anesthesia, but also likepersonally for CAAs, like I felt
that exact frustration.
But I do want to just rewind alittle bit and just pull out
some parts of that journey formaybe um listeners who aren't as
familiar with, you use like alot of terms and like a lot of
(35:04):
things that feel normal ifyou're in this world.
But um I just want to highlightexactly the problem that you
were facing, which was that youwere a 1099 employee.
You just created your ownpersonal like solo LLC or
however you classified yourself.
You were working directly for ahospital.
It was during a time when theywere really struggling to hire
(35:25):
people.
So what happens in thatenvironment is that everyone at
a hospital gets a raise toentice new employees.
Like, hey, look, we're gettingwe're all getting, you know, top
dollar in the city.
And it sounds like they had todo that several times, which
means they were probably quitelow compared to um like other
people in the city to draw newemployees in.
(35:46):
And during that time, you werelike, okay, I'm a 1099, I'm not
receiving those W-2 increases inpay.
So I'm gonna go and advocate formyself to my friends, the group
that is of anesthesiologists,this private anesthesia group
that has hired me and values me,I know, and they weren't able to
(36:07):
deliver value back to you in theform of compensation.
And that is that frustration ofbeing a highly capable, highly
needed, very skilled CAA, butyou don't have the power to
advocate for yourself.
And you're saying particularlyis because you were solo and not
(36:28):
part of a staffing agency.
Um, and that agency word, I justwant to make sure people
understand.
So, yeah, what were we gonnasay?
SPEAKER_01 (36:36):
Well, ironically, the name of my LLC company when
I was working solo is called OneSource Anesthesia, which is kind
of funny.
But yeah, you're one guy, right?
An agency is a staffing agency,just like you can think of a
sports agency that represents alot of athletes, right?
A staffing agency presents a lotof providers and is able to
provide a collective solution toa practice that's, you know, if
(37:00):
they're short staffed with fivefull-time equivalent employees,
then an agency come can come inlike Harmony and say, look, we
can provide you with all five ofthose employees until your
recruitment department canadjust their package and do a
better job of recruitingfull-time staff.
SPEAKER_00 (37:20):
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Okay.
Talk to me about the transitionfrom one source anesthesia,
which yes, that is ironic, tobecoming harmony while working
at the same institution, right?
You you just kind of likeswitched up how you were billing
them, or like I don't even knowthe appropriate words.
Like, talk to us about that, I'massuming, clunky transition
(37:41):
period.
SPEAKER_01 (37:43):
I would say the primary word that I would use is
just transparency.
I've always been verytransparent with what I'm trying
to do.
And I find that it's always thebest approach because I went to
the groups and I said, Hey, Italked to some agencies.
I have noticed that you'rehaving some staffing
difficulties.
I've noticed that you're usingan agency that doesn't utilize
(38:05):
CAAs.
What do you think about meproviding you with some folks
that would be a better fit?
And they're like, You do youthink you can do that?
And I was like, Yeah.
You're like, well, sure, send usthe contract.
And I was like, I'll get righton that, you know?
And Google how to create acontract.
Exactly.
I went on Google and I was like,you know, how do you how do you
(38:26):
uh, you know, write a contractand and did some research and
and pieced one together and sentit to them and and uh you know
got the first first contract.
Of course, then it's like, ohman, now we have to deliver on
this, you know?
And so then again, reaching outto our network and and saying,
look, this is what I'm doing,this is what I'm trying to
pursue.
Is anyone interested?
(38:47):
And then fortunately we had thefaith of our community that
said, Yeah, well, we'd we'd loveto help you with this.
And and yeah, we would certainlybe interested.
And and that's how it kind ofbegan.
Very grassroots.
Very grassroots.
SPEAKER_00 (38:59):
And when was this?
What year was this?
SPEAKER_01 (39:01):
This was uh November of 2019, is when we decided to
officially, I decided toofficially launch Harmony and
get going as an agency.
Which wasn't the best year,because I was gonna say 2020 was
it was a little rough, you know.
Um a lot of furloughed employeesand had to have some really
(39:22):
difficult conversations aboutyou know uh cancellations of of
of uh shifts and things of thatnature, which happened to me as
well.
Um, and so yeah, that was arough year, but uh, I'm glad
that's all behind us.
SPEAKER_00 (39:34):
Yes, trial by fire, I suppose.
Um you learned a lot, I'm sure,unfortunately.
Unfortunately, but um, and justso the the first few employees,
like the first few contractors,were again your CAA friends,
your CAA community in Georgia,which is very strong.
It it is where the CA professionwas born.
Atlanta in particular hasprobably the densest population
(39:57):
of CAAs, I would assume.
Um, and so you kind of reachedout to that network and was
like, hey, is anyone wantingthis type of arrangement?
And you just got some yeses andran from there, I assume.
SPEAKER_01 (40:08):
Yep, that's exactly right.
And you know, we had theopportunity to expand the agency
into other subspecialties, andwe intentionally decided to
essentially stay in our lane andstick to what we know and be a
single specialty focused agency,right?
And so we decided that cRNAs,CAAs, and anesthesiologists were
(40:34):
gonna be the only provider typesthat we were gonna focus on on
staffing because hospitals wereasking us, well, oh, well, we
also need anesthesia techs, wealso need surgical techs, we
also need packing nurses, wealso need that.
And we're like, maybe, maybenot.
Let's just stick to let's juststick to a arena that we're
comfortable with.
SPEAKER_00 (40:53):
Okay, so now I I would love to hear the the
nitty-gritty or the what itreally felt like to build
harmony from, you know, you cangive us a little bit of the
COVID because certainly that wasright when you were building it,
but just kind of what it feltlike to take this from zero to
(41:13):
uh a functioning, profitable,impacting company.
SPEAKER_01 (41:19):
I would say that for anyone who's interested in in
pursuing an entrepreneurialventure, and I know it sounds
cliche, but you've really got todig deep and think of the why.
Why are you doing this?
What is your purpose?
If you don't have a mission andyou don't have a purpose, any
kind of financial success willnot be enough to sustain the
(41:42):
headwinds that you are going tobe facing, the disappointments,
the challenges, the grit thatyou need to have to persevere
those challenges.
You have to have a why.
And so for me, my why was veryclear.
And so going from an agency thatreceived success, proof of
(42:04):
concept in in early 2019, andthen being met with the
challenges of COVID literallymonths later, if you don't have
that why and that purpose-drivenmission in mind, you cannot
persevere.
And so I would say that youknow, the biggest challenge to a
lot of I think youngentrepreneurs is not having that
(42:28):
that mission and that purpose.
And once you have that, then Ithink the grit comes with it.
I know it sounds cliche, but butit really is what allowed us to
continue to go forward eventhough we were faced with a
number of challenges.
SPEAKER_00 (42:42):
Along my own journey, like you saying you
have to have a why, I'mthinking, I know my why, right?
And like something just deeplycame up for me.
Like, well, I'll just share.
My why is to create connectionin the CA profession and with
ourselves, like connection withmyself and connection with
others in the CAA profession.
Um, and that is my deepest why.
(43:03):
And you can take that intoeverything I I do.
And I I know that that haschanged, it's evolved, it has
hit different things for me.
But that's been at the essence.
And I'm just wondering if youcan articulate kind of what that
why was for Harmony and and whatkept you going.
SPEAKER_01 (43:20):
I mean, the why for us has always been to be a
non-agency agency.
Okay.
That is the why, because Ialmost felt like an agency was
like a dirty word for a lot ofthese groups.
Like, oh, we don't work withagencies.
Like we absolutely don't workwith agencies.
And so we wanted to be somethingdifferent, right?
While still servicing our CAcommunity.
(43:43):
And so the why for us was sayingwe we can do this significantly
better than what's out there,right?
And so just seeing theopportunity and wanting to be
that non-agency agency, beingtransparent, being
mission-driven, being the agencythat actually does a deep dive
into vetting and providesquality folks instead of just a
(44:06):
warm body that that is filling avoid.
Yes, I think that's always beenthe why for us.
You know, with that also comes alot of altruistic benefits that
we never realized when we'redoing this business.
Um and by that I mean providerswho've come up to me and said,
Hey, I just want to let youknow, you've completely changed
(44:27):
my life.
And I'm like, Oh, you know, andthey're like, Oh, well, I, you
know, I I used to miss my mydaughter's softball games all
the time because I was beingheld late at the hospital, or
you know, I'm now more presentat, you know, with with the
family.
And a lot of it has to do withwith you know working parents.
And so that just feels really,really good, right?
And so those are kind of just Iwould say gravy on top when
(44:52):
you're building a business thathelp you kind of continue to
push forward, right?
SPEAKER_00 (44:56):
Yeah.
I'm hearing two things when yousay non-agency agency.
And one of them you kind oftouched on when you were sharing
that, you know, you're a highvalue CAA, 1099, who's being
asked to go and relieve a locumswho doesn't feel comfortable.
Like that is a verystereotypical sort of version of
understanding what a locums is.
(45:18):
It's it's an anesthesia providerthat maybe can't fit in with a
group, like a normal group.
And so they go into the locumsmarket, or someone who has
limited skill set for whateverreason and just like comes in as
a locums.
And if you're in a W-2, likeyou're the full-time employee,
you're like, oh, the locumsdoesn't do caratives, they don't
do harsh, they don't do okay, sothe locums has to be in lack
collies all day.
(45:38):
Like that is a verystereotypical usage, I guess.
And your approach is soradically different and also,
you know, holds up CAAs in away.
And here comes my question isthat like I feel deeply
protective over CAAs.
Like, no, we are an amazinggroup of practitioners.
(45:59):
Like, we have this underdogspirit of us that I think always
wants us to be seen as competentand good enough.
And and I don't want to put thaton you, but I'm just wondering
if there's any of that in yourwhy that, like, no, I want to
prove that CAAs can be thissolution that you never saw
coming because we are thatamazing.
Like, I just I'm hearing maybe aresonance there, and I'm
(46:21):
wondering what you think aboutthat.
SPEAKER_01 (46:23):
Well, a hundred percent.
First of all, you are on pointwhen you say that locums 15
years ago, when I started doingit, the question I would get
from anesthesiologist is, oh,where do you work?
I'm like, well, oh, this is whatI do.
Yeah.
And immediately there's like,well, there must be some kind of
like personality issue with thisguy, or or maybe he doesn't have
(46:43):
the right skill set, you know.
And you'd have to just, youknow, just let all that kind of
bounce off and say, no, no, no.
This is this is a lifestyle thatI am choosing, right?
And this is something that I'mdoing because it's best for my
family.
Because my wife is an OBGYN, shetakes a lot of call, and we
don't want the kids raised bythe nannies and the opairs.
(47:04):
So this is a choice that I'mmaking.
It's not that I don't haveopportunities as a W-2, I'm just
choosing to do this, right?
So I 100% agree with you that 15years ago, that was the
overarching perception oflocums.
And a lot of it was the correctperception because there were a
(47:24):
lot of folks in the locums arenathat just couldn't get W-2 jobs
or had certain personalityissues or whatever.
That's completely changed.
Completely changed.
Now it's a lifestyle choice.
It's something that a lot ofeven young anesthesiologists are
coming out of practice, aprivate practice group, and
saying, well, I'm I'm anemployee of a hospital, there's
(47:45):
no partnership track here.
And you know what?
I value my work life balancemore so than I do a paycheck
that this hospital is offering.
And so, no, I'm choosing to dolocums because it's it's what I
want to do.
I want to travel, I want to haveother interests, I want to do
whatever.
So it has provided a conduit forthem as well, right?
And then to answer your secondpart of your question, the why,
(48:07):
yes, I love going to practicegroups.
Let's say it's CRNA owned.
And they, there's just so muchmisinformation about CAAs in
that community.
And it's like, no, no, we workhand in hand with CRNAs all the
time.
And guess what?
If you if you are comfortablebringing CAs into the group,
you'll get lunches and you'llget to go home on time.
And we can help your workforcechallenges.
(48:31):
And your current CRNA communityisn't meeting that need, so why
not explore an alternativeoption, right?
And so, no, I I love doing that.
And we do a lot of thateducation and we do a lot of
advocacy.
My business partner, Sassy, andI are very, very involved in
that educational and advocacyportion of our business.
SPEAKER_00 (48:49):
So thank you for putting a finer point on that
because yeah, I mean, you evenhear in my own like relay, sort
of bias understanding of locums.
And I was wanting to do locums.
Like when I had a careertransition, I was like, okay,
locums maybe is the place forme.
And I did not know about Harmonyat the time.
This was like five years ago.
So you were just gettingstarted.
(49:10):
And I went to a big locumsagency, and that drop-down box
didn't have CAAs.
And I called them and they werelike, who the heck are CAAs?
And I was like, okay, click,I'll find something else.
But yeah.
So thank you.
Okay, I actually youtransitioned beautifully because
I have a whole bunch ofquestions on the impact that I
(49:30):
see Harmony making in the CAAcommunity.
And you just said your businesspartner, Sassy, and you do a ton
of advocacy work, like boots onthe ground, explaining what a
CAA is to people who've neverheard of us.
That is relentless, tiresomework.
And I know you're so passionateabout that.
So tell me, kind of in this new,let's call it a new uh era of
(49:54):
harmony, like as it's expandingand getting, you know, we're
seeing you at the Quad A, liketalk to us about that evolution.
SPEAKER_01 (50:01):
So we do staff in 10 different states, and we are
unofficially, because I don'tknow if anyone's measured this,
but unofficially represent moreCAs than any other agency in the
country.
And the advocacy work that we'redoing is very I'll give you
examples.
I think that works better.
Please.
So we're we're at the ASAAdvance meeting, uh, meeting
(50:21):
with practice administrators,meeting with CFOs, talking to
them about how we can solvetheir workforce challenges with
an alternative provider, whichis a CAA.
Right?
We went to the Carolinas andTennessee Society of
Anesthyologist meeting inAsheville.
Again, speaking to practiceadministrators, speaking to
(50:42):
boards, the board of the TSA,letting them know who we are,
and getting a lot of interestfrom practice groups that say,
yeah, we are really strugglingwith our workforce, and we would
love to learn more about whatCAs are.
We get questions like, well, canCAs take call?
Of course we can say call.
What do you mean?
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (51:01):
Yeah.
It's shocking.
It's shocking how how muchmisinformation there is, how
much ignorance, and not in ahorrible way, but just like you
just didn't know.
They they just don't know aboutus.
SPEAKER_01 (51:12):
100%.
And you know, the uh states likeTennessee that where we just got
licensure, big kudos to the quadA for all their efforts there.
You know, there's a lot ofinterest.
They're like, look, we've putforth all this money, time,
effort, energy in gettinglicensed for CAAs.
There's a reason for it.
And the reason is that they needworkforce solutions and they
want to incorporate CAs intotheir practice.
(51:34):
And so we talked to them aboutbylaws changes that need to
happen, how to do it.
You know, I think you have to bethis very upfront with the staff
and introducing the rightcandidates to an opportunity
that may be challenging atfirst, right?
You may enter a hospital whereyou may not be welcomed
initially, but you have torepresent the CA profession well
(51:57):
to make sure that everyone feelscomfortable with this new
provider type.
And not just the anesthesiadepartment.
Surgeons, the nurses, the PACUnurses, everyone in the
interoperative setting needs tobe comfortable with you.
And you have to present yourselfin a very professional manner
that that shows that you're verycompetent, you're very
professional, and you're thereas a guest to help solve their
(52:21):
problem.
SPEAKER_00 (52:22):
And you kind of spoke on this a little bit, but
I'm I'm thinking of maybepracticing CAAs who are
listening.
I'm like, I kind of want to dothe locums thing, and maybe I
will contact Harmony and and amI that person who um feels like
they could well represent theCAA profession?
And what are you exactly lookingfor?
(52:42):
Like, can you tell me sort ofyour ideal CAA candidate that
you would have represent Harmonyand represent our profession?
SPEAKER_01 (52:50):
Well, I would say right off the bat, you want to
have at least two years ofexperience.
Okay.
A lot of the agencies willengage with new graduates.
We do not.
We think that if you don't haveat least two years of
experience, then you're not outthere to represent the
profession in the best waypossible, right?
SPEAKER_04 (53:06):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (53:07):
You got to be flexible.
You were there to do the casesthat nobody else wants to do,
right?
So you may do GI every singleday.
You may do thoracic every singleday.
You know, we can talk to thepractice group and say, hey,
listen, you know, so and so, youknow, Mary Jean is capable of
doing more than GI, you know,and she's she's told us recently
that she's been there for thelast two weeks, you know.
(53:27):
Could we maybe reassign hersomeplace else?
Most practice groups, we can dothat.
We can solve that problem,right?
Because we want to make surethat you have a good assignment.
We also want to make sure thatwe're fixing the problem for for
the for the group.
So I would say flexibility,experience, professionalism,
right?
When things don't go your way,if there's an issue that needs
to be resolved, we have topresent ourselves in a way
(53:49):
that's very professional.
The approach to solving aproblem is oftentimes what gets
people in trouble, right?
So you have to maintain theconcept that you're there as a
guest.
You're not an employee of thisgroup.
You're there as a guest in orderto solve their issue, their
problem.
(54:09):
And in order to do that, youhave to be super flexible.
I mean that's yeah, I can'tstress that more.
Um, so yeah, I mean, I say thoseare characteristics of an ideal
candidate.
SPEAKER_00 (54:19):
And like in my own, in my own experience of working
PRN, which you staff people whoare PRN and who have longer what
are referred to as locumscontracts, which are generally
like three, six, twelve months.
Um and again, there's a lot oflanguage in this that might be
new to some people, but in myPRN experience, I want control
(54:44):
and I have to give flexibility.
And when you're saying I needCAAs who are willing to be
flexible, it doesn't mean youcan't also, as the provider,
have a sense of control overyour schedule or control over
the types of cases you want todo.
And not meaning I can't do thesetypes of cases, but what we're
saying is like, hey, I can dothe bigger cases.
(55:05):
You don't have to isolate meinto, you know, one room all the
time because you think I canonly do that.
And just for a really tangibleexample of this in my own life,
as someone who works PRN andonly one day a week, that's my
control.
I control, I work one day aweek.
It is always Thursdays.
However, I was getting put intoGI every single time and I
(55:26):
wanted to do the bigger cases.
If I'm only working one day aweek, I want to do A-lines every
so often, and it's not gonnahappen unless I change
something.
And so I ended up telling them Iwant to work 12-hour shifts.
Would that be something youneed?
Could that solve a problem foryou?
Because GI closes at 5 p.m.
So I knew I had to go somewhereelse from five to seven.
(55:48):
And they were like, yeah, great,that's actually really helpful
because it allows more people togo home earlier.
And like I just always haveapproached this like, hey, I get
something, you get something,and there's a way to meet.
And I would assume that's whatharmony helps match.
You know, what are the needs ofthe institutions and then what
are the needs of the CAA who'sapplying, and how do we make
those match?
(56:08):
That's the role an agency plays.
Am I right in thatunderstanding?
SPEAKER_01 (56:13):
100%.
And we're we're at the barebones, ground level, we are
matchmakers, right?
And if we're not doing a goodjob of sourcing candidates,
setting their expectations forthe appropriate site, yeah, then
we're just not doing a good job.
You know?
Interesting to say that aboutthe GI situation.
I mean, we actually have had anumber of candidates that work
(56:33):
full-time at a GI center thatwant to have exposure to larger
cases to maintain their skillset, right?
And say, look, I want to dolocums, like you said, one day a
week on a PRM basis at a largerinstitution because I want to
maintain my skills.
Yeah.
I mean, I do cardiac one day aweek because I want to maintain
my skill set.
I still like doing centrallines, I still like doing A
(56:55):
lines.
In fact, I love being in the ORstill.
It's significantly morefulfilling than my admin days,
you know, working on harmony.
So yes, I completely agree withall of that.
SPEAKER_00 (57:04):
Wonderful.
I just I'm hoping CAAs arehearing opportunity when they
hear us talking about this.
Because yeah, I just think ifyou've never thought about how
you can serve the CAA professionby like going out into a new
location or like taking a chanceand being that for are there
CAAs in Tennessee?
I don't know.
But being the first CAA at ahospital, not yet, not yet.
SPEAKER_01 (57:26):
Not yet, not yet.
SPEAKER_00 (57:27):
Okay, it is like huge opportunity.
SPEAKER_01 (57:30):
Yeah, Sassy, um, my business partner is actually the
TN AAA president.
So he's gonna be the statesociety president, and so he's
from Memphis, and so he's just agreat fit for it.
So that's another example of ofthe advocacy that we do, you
know, as an agency.
SPEAKER_00 (57:46):
So and um, you know, not a secret that you are
supporting me as a CAAentrepreneur and as someone who
is trying to make change withinthe profession.
Like Harmony has enabled you tomove outside of the operating
room.
And, you know, I see you at theQuad A, like before we had this
(58:07):
partnership.
I saw you at the Quad A and Isee you on Instagram at all
these other um state societymeetings, both for Quad A
component societies and the ASAcomponent societies.
I'm like blown away by how muchwork you're doing for the CAA
profession.
I guess I want to know where yousee this going in 10 years.
Like what would be a beautifulpayoff for all this effort?
(58:29):
Or are you just like living inthe moment?
Let's see where it goes.
SPEAKER_01 (58:33):
Um, no, there's all there's always a roadmap for
success, right?
Tell us, yes.
Yeah, so advocacy.
Uh Sassy, my business partner,is uh a GAA board.
Okay.
Member over the GSA.
I'm a member of the GSA.
We're diamond sponsors uh at theQuad A and we'll be again next
year.
We're sustaining members of theQuad A, right?
(58:54):
Sassy, like I said, is anincoming TNAA president.
I'm on the legislative committeeof the Quad A.
We are again very much involvedin the profession.
And roadmap to success, I think,would be for CAA locums to be an
option in every single statewhere we have licensure.
(59:16):
When you go to Gasworks, and ifwe have licensure in Washington
State, which we do, there shouldbe CAA locums opportunities
there.
Either for groups who arecurrently employing CAAs and
even for groups who are notcurrently employing CAs that
want to incorporate CAAs intotheir practice.
And they want to demystify a lotof that misinformation about
(59:37):
CAAs by introducing locums intotheir practice, right, as these
temporary employees to let thestaff know that look, this is a
great alternative to a CRNA poolthat's not currently meeting our
needs, right?
So that would be, I think, therecipe or or the pathway to
success.
(59:58):
In five years, we would be ableto look at the map, go to gas
works, go to these job boards,go to bag mask.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00:04):
There you go.
I was like, go to bagmask.com.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:07):
Yeah, go to bag mask, you know, uh support
another CA entrepreneur and beable to choose a locums position
in every state that we havelicensure in.
Currently, that is not the case.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00:20):
Yes, yes, that sounds amazing.
And I foresee that happening inour lifetime, like in our career
span.
It's gonna happen 100%.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:29):
I mean, we're not stopping until it does, like it
will happen.
So, no question about it, MaryJean.
This this is happening, and itit will be I will check the box
for we have succeeded once thathappens.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00:43):
I love it.
I can't wait to celebrate whenthat happens for you and for us.
And I also want to say that umwe spoke a little bit before we
started recording, and I waslike, Rad, how much do you work?
Like, how what are your hours?
Because I do think part of thatentrepreneurial dream and um,
you know, some of what's sold inlike the zeitgeist of being an
(01:01:04):
entrepreneur is that you're, youknow, sipping like margaritas on
a beach somewhere, and you'reworking more, you're working
more on harmony than a full-timejob, in addition to working
nearly full-time hours as apracticing CAA.
So this is this is a fuel insideof you that like keeps going.
(01:01:25):
It's not necessarily an endpoint.
It's not like, okay, I startedharmony.
Harmony can like run on its owntwo feet and like I'm in and
out, retire, and like sit backand stop doing everything that I
started.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:36):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, not not at all.
I mean, we are not on easystreet, you know.
I would say 60, 70 hours a weekeasily are spent on work, um,
both clinically and on harmony,more in harmony than clinical
hours, you know.
Um, I'm in the operating roomtwo, maybe three days a week.
Heck, I'm working this Sundaybecause one of our clients
(01:01:58):
needed it.
So I stepped in.
But yeah, I think that if youdon't have going back to what we
were saying before, if you don'thave that mission-driven
mindset, if you don't have thatpurpose, it's gonna be tough to
put in those hours, right?
Um because at this point, thedrive is is in the mission, is
is more so than any kind offinancial benefit that we would
(01:02:20):
get from it.
It's it's beyond that.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02:22):
Well, I am so grateful to share your story and
to hold you up as what it meansto be a CAA right now.
And I'm just excited to continuewatching your journey.
And I am grateful that youdecided to partner with me for
season five of the podcast.
I am not shy in saying like yourbelief in me has allowed me to
(01:02:44):
um, you know, buy healthinsurance for my family.
Like there are reallylogistical, practical things
that CAAs who are entrepreneursneed.
And when you agreed to be um thepartner, you were like, I want
to help you.
Like, I want to see you succeed.
And there's this sort of, yeah,there's like a little cluster of
people who are in the CAAentrepreneur space.
(01:03:06):
And we always are like shoutingout to each other and trying to
hold each other up.
Um, and it's just really cool tobe a part of.
So I'm just grateful for you ona lot of levels.
And yeah, I'm excited to uhcontinue supporting you and
seeing where it all goes.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03:19):
Likewise.
And kudos to everything thatyou're doing, uh, Mary Jean.
Uh I I love it.
I think that uh there's anaudience that is craving to hear
these stories.
And I hope that we're uh able toprovide a value to them when
they listen to this podcast.
Um and so yeah, thank you forfor having me.
Um, you know, doing a podcastwasn't on my bucket list, but I
guess I can check that box nowtoo.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03:40):
So it's so fun, isn't it fun?
SPEAKER_01 (01:03:43):
I just want the I just want the viewers and the
audience to get something out ofit, you know.
Yeah, and I'm hoping that we canprovide that for them.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03:49):
You did.
You totally did, and I'm excitedto share it with everyone.
So all right, thanks, Radio.
Thanks for listening to AwakenedAnesthetist.
If this episode resonated withyou, share it with a CAA friend,
(01:04:11):
an AA student in your life, or aperspective, and let them know
why you loved it.
It's the most important thingyou can do to support this
podcast and its mission.
You can always find more ways toconnect with me and this CAA
community atawakenedanesthetist.com,
including an invitation to joinseason.
(01:04:33):
Mindful Connections.
These are free virtualgatherings open to anyone in our
awakened anaesthetist community.
And while you're scrolling thewebsite, check out my trusted
CAA partners who make thispodcast possible with a special
thank you to my season fivesponsor, Harmony Anesthesia
Staffing.
Talk soon.
Before we get into today's conversation, I wanted
to take a quick timeout.
This is the moment before everyprocess episode begins where I
set the stage for who you'reabout to meet and why their
story matters for our CAAcommunity.
And actually, today's processepisode is deeply connected to
my season 5 flagship sponsor,Harmony Anesthesia Staffing.
(04:00):
You've already heard aboutHarmony's values and their
growth, but what you might notknow is that Harmony wasn't
created to be just anotherstaffing agency.
It was born from a real livedstruggle.
A moment when a CAA lookedaround at the way things were
and thought there has to be abetter way.
And instead of waiting for thesystem to shift, he decided to
(04:24):
build what he couldn't find.
That origin story is why Harmonyfeels so aligned with my work
here at Awakened Anesthetist.
Everything I talk about, livingintentionally, designing a life
that reflects your values,creating something that didn't
exist before.
Harmony is doing that inside ourCAA profession.
(04:45):
And today you get to meet theCAA at the center of that
beginning.
Harmony's founder, Rad Zamani.
If you are a CAA or SAA who hasever wondered what it really
looks like to step outside thetraditional path, to shift from
clinician to entrepreneur, tonavigate uncertainty, and to
(05:05):
choose alignment over comfort,this conversation is for you.
So with that, let's step intothis process episode with fellow
CAA and Harmony founder RadZimani.
SPEAKER_01 (05:18):
I would say that for anyone who's interested in
pursuing an entrepreneurialventure, and I know it sounds
cliche, but you really got todig deep and think of the why.
Why are you doing this?
What is your purpose?
If you don't have a mission andyou don't have a purpose, any
kind of financial success willnot be enough to sustain the
headwinds that you are going tobe facing, the disappointments,
(05:40):
the challenges, the grit thatyou need to have to persevere
those challenges.
You have to have a why.
SPEAKER_00 (05:52):
Welcome to the Awakened Anesthetist Podcast,
the first podcast to highlightthe CAA experience.
I'm your host, Mary Jean, andI've been a certified
anesthesiologist assistant forclose to two decades.
Throughout my journey andstruggles, I've searched for
guidance that includes my uniqueperspective as a CAA.
(06:12):
At one of my lowest points, Idecided to turn my passion for
storytelling and my belief thatthe CAA profession is uniquely
able to create a life by designinto a podcast.
If you are a practicing CAA,current AA student, or someone
who hopes to be one, I encourageyou to stick around and
experience the power of being ina community filled with voices
(06:36):
who sound like yours, sharingexperiences you never believed
possible.
I know you will find yourselfhere at the Awakened Anesthetist
Podcast.
Welcome in.
Let's start off with sort of adeeper question, which is what's
something that most people getwrong about you and your
(06:58):
entrepreneurial journey?
SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
That's a good question.
I think that there is amisconception that things are
easy when truly there is a largeburden of responsibility that
you carry.
If you truly care about yourcommunity and you have a
mission-driven, purpose-drivencompany.
And so, yes, it's it's it'sgreat to have success, but with
(07:24):
it comes its own hardships.
And that um burden of alwayswanting to over-deliver is
stressful.
And sometimes it's out of yourhands.
I mean, sometimes it's notsomething that can be
controlled, but you feel theresponsibility to do the right
thing.
And it's easy to do the rightthing when you can control all
the parameters.
(07:44):
It's hard when when sometimesthey're not completely in your
control.
So that I'd say that's that'sthat's a challenge.
So yeah, it's not always easy.
SPEAKER_00 (07:51):
Mm-hmm.
I'm so excited to get into therealness of this because I think
a lot of CAAs just heardthemselves when you said it's
it's nice to control when youcan control everything.
And I do feel like the CAAprofession has a large amount of
control.
It's like you want heart rate togo up, you give this drug, heart
rate goes up.
And yet there's this part to alot of us to maybe be creative
(08:12):
or to start something new or tomake a change in our profession.
It's like this juxtaposition ofwho we are.
Um, and it's so helpful to hearsomeone who's kind of gone
before and done it so that wecan all be expanded.
That's truly the purpose of thispodcast.
So I'm excited to get into yourstory.
Let's rewind a little bit andstart with who you were growing
(08:34):
up, your cultural background,your upbringing, like to help us
shape um an understanding of whoyou are.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:42):
So my origin story is I am a true immigrant.
My parents sacrificed a greatdeal to come to this country
from Iran.
And we came here when I wasapproximately eight years old.
My mom worked for the Iranianembassy.
Um, I was born in 1978.
(09:02):
So, right at the kind of heightof the revolution in Iran and
the regime change that hasoccurred, that's still ongoing
today.
And the plan was to always goback.
And so I remember in highschool, my dad would say, you
know, once the Ayatollah passes,then we're gonna head back to
Iran.
And we have a whole, you know,life there.
And my mom would say, We're not,we're not going back.
(09:23):
You know.
So my origin story is asuccessful story for immigrants.
I would say anyone who thinksthat the American dream is dead,
you know, I would I wouldchallenge them to have a
conversation with me because itit's not.
And so we grew up with, I wouldsay, looking up at middle class,
with my parents doing everythingthey could to provide a very
(09:44):
happy and fulfilling childhood.
And they did, they did thatamazingly, but with limited
resources because you know theycame to this country not doing
what they were trained andreally positioned to do their
whole lives, right?
So I've always had a bit of anentrepreneurial mindset just
because of my upbringing.
My parents uh owned everythingfrom what would be kind of a mom
(10:04):
and pop FedEx shop to uh anauto-repair shop to oriental rug
uh repair business.
I mean, so they've done multiplethings, and I was there along
the way and watched them do it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:15):
So I did not know that depth of your story.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
And I have a follow-up.
What would you define theAmerican dream as?
SPEAKER_01 (10:25):
I think the American dream is a social contract that
exceeds your expectations,right?
If you go to school and you dowell and you work hard, that
there should be a job and anopportunity and a lifestyle
available for you.
And I think a lot of countriesfail to deliver on that promise.
And I think the American dreamis a dream that's still very
(10:48):
much alive because it's exceededall of my expectations.
And that social contract hasbeen delivered.
SPEAKER_00 (10:55):
Well, let's talk about how you got to that
American dream because I guesssimilar to your parents, you
have done many things.
So maybe kind of give us a briefoverview as you build up into
going to CAA school.
And I have some questions foryou about how you um ended up
going to AA school, but yeah,tell us kind of all of the parts
(11:18):
of you leading up to AA school.
SPEAKER_01 (11:21):
So I graduated Emory undergrad in the year 1996,
which is you say that like itwas hundreds of years ago.
SPEAKER_00 (11:30):
In the year 1996.
SPEAKER_01 (11:32):
I'm going to my 25-year uh Emery reunion, so it
feels that way.
Yeah.
But you know, it was when themanaged care agenda was very
much front and center.
And so I remember sitting at thekitchen table with my parents
and one of our close friendswho's who happened to be at
OBGYN and contemplating uhmedical school uh because I was
(11:54):
I was always interested inmedicine.
And she was very adamant aboutdo not go to medical school.
It is not what it you envisionit to be.
And you should go intoadministration because that's
that's the future.
You know, it every healthcare isgoing to be managed by these
large organizations.
And you know what?
Fast forward, she wasn't wrong.
(12:15):
She wasn't wrong.
Her advice had a profound impacton me and my decision making at
that time to pursue maybe adifferent career path, still
medicine related, but maybehaving a little bit more
business, right?
So after Emory undergrad, Idecided to go to public health
school and get a degree in amaster's in healthcare
administration.
(12:35):
I went to the American Collegeof Healthcare Executives, the
ACHE is essentially the ASA forhealthcare executives.
SPEAKER_04 (12:41):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (12:42):
I went to their annual conference, met a partner
of a company that I thought wasoutstanding, and took a job with
them out of school.
So I thought I had my dream job.
This is what I wanted to do.
And here I am.
And then I had an aha momentwhen we're at one of our team
outings where the partner had tostep away from dinner uh to take
(13:04):
a phone call from hisfive-year-old daughter to wish
her a happy birthday.
And I thought, that's that's notthe future that I see myself in,
you know.
And so I decided to to pivot.
And I thought, well, I I I likethe smaller company because I
had received an offer from PriceWaterhouse Coopers and you know,
(13:24):
wasn't in love with the bigconglomerates.
So I decided to work with astartup company that a friend of
mine had started.
And it's called NerstarSolutions.
And NerfStar Solutions was ateleradiology company.
I knew nothing aboutteleradiology.
They hired me on as a directorof sales and marketing.
I knew nothing about sales andmarketing, but I said, yeah,
I'll figure it out.
(13:45):
And so I launched a new websitefor them and did some marketing
collateral for them, went onsales calls with them, and did
really well, surprisingly, eventhough my uh undergraduate
degree was in neuroscience.
So completely unrelated.
Um, but yeah, you just kind offigure it out as you go along.
And then at that time, when Iwas making the transition from
(14:08):
working for stock and impentassociates and working for
Neurostar, I had applied to theAA program because my dad had a
friend who was a CAA, and my dadsaid, Hey, you should talk to
this guy.
And I went and chatted him oneday and I was like, wow, this is
pretty, this is this is prettyneat.
And I can't believe I didn'tknow about this profession
(14:29):
having gone to Emery undergrad,right?
I mean, lit I literally walkedby the building like a thousand
times in undergrad and neverknew that the AA program even
existed in that building.
SPEAKER_00 (14:38):
But it was different time, different time.
SPEAKER_01 (14:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I loved it, and I thoughtthat the profession was
wonderful.
So I applied just to keep myoptions open, right?
And then uh, you know, lo andbehold, I got into the program
and had to make a decision anduh decided to pivot, you know,
to what I consider to be thegood guys, which is the
providers.
And so um, yeah, 20 almost 20years later, uh, here we are.
SPEAKER_00 (15:04):
Now, I sense this being a theme in your story,
like wanting to keep youroptions open because that seems
to be your mindset of like,okay, I'm always maybe is it an
itch to learn?
Is it an itch to like have adifferent impact on the world?
Like what made you think, well,you know, I'm pretty happy where
I am, but like, hey, let's applyto this entirely different
(15:25):
program.
And and mind you, we're notgonna skip past the fact that I
know that you forgot you appliedto AA school.
SPEAKER_01 (15:31):
So I'm we're gonna circle back, but yeah, you know,
I've always I'd like to keep myoptions open always because I
have have a lot of interests,you know?
And I felt like the AA programwas a way for me to dip my toe
into medicine, have a great dealof responsibility, and determine
whether I absolutely lovedmedicine before I committed
(15:53):
eight, 10 years of my life topursuing a career in medicine,
right?
And I also had asked when I wasin at the program, what is a
percentage of AAs that go on toget an MD and their acceptance
rate?
And it was like 100%.
Now, you know, they couldn'ttell me exactly how many had
done it historically, butthey're like, no, it's everyone
(16:14):
who's gone from AA school anddecided to pursue an MD as an
anesthesiologist, they've beenvery successful in doing so.
I was like, well, this is a a agreat conduit to doing that,
right?
Um, and so this was a way tokeep the options open.
And you know, I remember sittingdown with my dad and and coming
up with a pros and cons list ofA versus M D.
(16:38):
And I had so many otherinterests that I had that I felt
like I just wouldn't be able topursue those if I had gone the
MD route, if that makes sense.
Right?
Totally.
And so yeah, I felt I felt likethe AA program, and I it is
uniquely it's a very uniqueprofession in that when you step
out of the operating room, thework does not follow you home.
(17:01):
And you can, I feel like, designa career path as an AA that
gives you the opportunity topursue other interests that you
have, whether they're you know,creative or or business or or
whatever you want to do.
It's it's an outstandingprofession.
And and I I do feel like I needto give back to the profession
because it's done so much forme.
SPEAKER_00 (17:23):
I am right there with you, Rad.
I totally agree with that.
Um I just wanted to highlight alittle bit of just the culture
change around CAA school thatyou, like me and many people who
are of our CAA generation, werethinking, oh, I'm gonna go to
medical school.
Maybe not.
Okay, what's a CAA thing?
And my dad was a CAA, and I wasstill thinking, oh yeah, I'm
(17:45):
probably gonna go to medicalschool.
And then CAA was, it felt likethis backup, which is a
completely different experiencefrom those pre-AAs right now who
are wanting to get into AAschool.
And I think it's because thoseof us who are CAAs have done a
really good job explaining whatyou just explained, that you get
this time and life back.
And it is so deeply fulfillingin the role in in clinical
(18:09):
medicine.
You still get all of those likewonderful parts of clinical
medicine.
And so when I tell the listenersthat you initially told me that
you forgot you applied to AAschool, and then what you got an
interview, and you're like, oh,what's that thing?
Like that is sort of when youhad that conversation with your
dad.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_01 (18:27):
Yeah, you know, I so Emery was a client of the
company I was working for.
So Emery was a client ofNurstar.
And so when I got a call fromEmery, I thought it was a client
asking about the product andwanting to, you know, take the
next steps.
And I then quickly realizedthat, oh no, this is the Emery
(18:47):
AA program calling me for aninterview.
I was like, oh, I was like,sure, I'll come in for an
interview.
SPEAKER_00 (18:52):
Everyone's rolling their eyes right now, Rad at
you.
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
Well, and I remember calling my then girlfriend, now
wife, saying, Hey, I got the andshe was in medical school, by
the way.
Um, and I said, Hey, I I gotthis interview request.
What do you think?
And she was like, go and make adecision later.
You there's no decision to makeuntil you actually get in.
(20:11):
I was like, Yeah, that's true.
So then I went on the interview.
Don Biggs, David Bizzetti werethe two interviewers, you know,
they had the dual interviewers.
And, you know, lo and behold, Igot accepted.
And I was like, oh man, now Ihave to make a decision.
And honestly, the um the companythat I was working with,
Neurostar, was they thought Iwas insane.
They're like, you're you'reyou're quitting?
(20:34):
Like what?
You're doing like you're killinghere, you know?
Like, why would you give thisup?
And I was like, I think this iswhat I want to do.
Um and I and I am I'm the typeof person that I don't listen to
a lot of the noise.
I I tend to do what I feel likeis the right thing to do, which
I think has helped me in theentrepreneurial journey that
(20:57):
I've been on.
Because if you just listen to alot of the noise, it can be
deafening, right?
And you have to have convictionin your decision making in order
to pursue the life that youwant.
And so that's that's what I did.
SPEAKER_00 (21:11):
I would love for you to speak to the non-traditional
AA applicants right now who arelistening, which has, you know,
become like a category now forpre-AAs because you are the
epitome of that.
And I just would love for you tospeak to what it felt like as
having that non-traditionalpath, having all of that life
knowledge from your other rolesand your experiences and how AA
(21:35):
school felt for you versus maybehow you saw AA school for maybe
a more traditional colleague youhad in your program?
SPEAKER_01 (21:44):
Well, I think what's what's really attractive about
the AA profession at large isthat the work-life balance is
extraordinary.
You know, when you're in salesor consulting or in the business
sector, the work follows youhome.
You're always technically on,right?
I mean, we're talking about thedays when like Blackberries were
(22:04):
like a thing, you know, and thenI had your Blackberry and his
busting.
It never stops.
And working in the consultingworld for a revenue cycle
consulting company, yeah, it'dbe Saturday at four o'clock and
you get an email from, you know,your general manager and you
need to respond, even thoughyou're technically not on the
clock, right?
(22:25):
Whereas the AA profession, Imean, you step out of the
operating room and it is, it'sdone.
You've taken care of yourpatients, you've fulfilled your
duties for the day, and youdon't have to worry about doing
anything outside of you know, uhin your off hours, essentially,
right?
So you can pursue otherinterests.
It's it's it's so gosh, what'sliberating is probably the word
(22:49):
I can use, um, as a profession.
There's not a lot of professorsout there that allow that, you
know.
Even my wife as a physician isbeholden to committee meetings
and staff meetings and having agreat relationship with
administration.
And we're completely inoculatedfrom all of that, right?
(23:09):
And it's, I mean, it's amazing.
I tell people all the time ifHarvard Medical School's dean
were to show up in my front doortomorrow and tell me that I had
a full ride and could choose aresidency of my choosing, I'm
not the guy.
I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm notinterested.
You're gonna have to findsomebody else.
SPEAKER_00 (23:28):
Did you have a sense of that when you were a student
because you had seen thecounterpoint?
Like you had experienced theopposite of that lifestyle, and
so you just felt differently inschool and that kind of, you
know, like, well, I guess I'masking, what was school like for
you as a non-traditional AAstudent?
SPEAKER_01 (23:45):
Well, I think I was of the mindset of this is a
great profession.
I'm very grateful to be here.
This is a choice that I've made.
I gave up a successful careerpath to be here, and so I'm
gonna make the most of it.
Right.
So I do feel like, and I and I Ido agree with you, there's some
(24:07):
younger AAs who come into theprogram straight out of school,
straight out of undergrad, anddon't have that perspective.
And so that level of gratitudefor what you do have isn't
there, and it is a littlefrustrating sometimes because
it's like this is you're in agreat place.
(24:27):
And it's an exciting time to bean AA.
I there's never been a bettertime to be an AA.
And so, yeah, I think that thatprior life experience just gives
you a different perspective onum how good we have it, quite
frankly.
SPEAKER_00 (24:40):
Mm-hmm.
I totally agree.
And I was the person who cameright out of undergrad.
Um, you know, I didn't know whatI had until years into the
profession.
Hey Awaken Anessis community,jumping in here with some
(25:02):
behind-the-scene details thatfeel especially connected to
today's conversation with Rad.
When Rad and I were meeting forour very first discovery call to
prep for his process episode, heshared a moment that really
stuck with me.
Rad told me that this allstarted when he requested a$10
an hour raise, a raise thatsimply matched his market value,
(25:24):
his experience, and his skillset, and he was denied.
Of course, he said it feltdeeply personal at first.
These were his work colleagues,his work friends, telling him he
didn't have value.
But then he realized it wasn'tpersonal, it was professional.
And the only way he was going toget what he knew he needed was
to become his own advocate.
(25:46):
And honestly, that story isfamiliar to so many CAAs.
I've lived a version of thisstory myself when I wanted to go
part-time after years workingfor my private anesthesia group,
but I had no leverage.
I kept showing up to thenegotiating table, hoping
someone would see and honor whatI needed.
(26:08):
And when that didn't happen,after so much struggle, I
finally made the difficultdecision to leave altogether.
It felt personal too, until Irecognized the same truth as
rad.
I had to take my power back.
No one was going to recognize myvalue until I truly recognized
it.
This is exactly why HarmonyAnesthesia staffing exists.
(26:31):
Harmony was built by CAAs who'velived these stories.
CAAs who wanted a career thathonors themselves as a whole
clinician, not just as shiftcoverage.
Harmony's growth has comethrough trust, through
transparency, through CAAssaying, I want something
different and I deserve it.
So if you're at a point in yourcareer where you want more
(26:53):
flexibility, more alignment,more agency, and you don't want
to leave the profession youlove, Harmony may be your path
forward.
You can schedule a 15-minuteconsultation directly with Rad
using the link in the shownotes.
It's a no-pressure conversationabout how working locums can be
the answer you are looking for.
And honestly, it might be themoment you start taking your
(27:16):
power back too.
All right, let's jump back intoRad's process episode.
So walk us through just theearly days of your career.
Um, I actually don't know if youever worked somewhere completely
(27:39):
like a normal W-2 full-time, orif you jumped straight into
1099.
We probably should define someof these terms as well.
SPEAKER_01 (27:47):
So, great question.
I started off with a groupcalled Georgia Anesthesiologist
at Kenistone Hospital inMarietta, Georgia.
I took the job because, quitefrankly, a number of my
classmates took a job there.
So it's kind of comfortablegoing in with a cohort of
friends, right?
And I was a volunteer at thathospital when I was uh in high
(28:10):
school.
So I was like one of those candystripers and volunteered in the
summer and you know, wield thepatients wherever they needed to
go.
And so, you know, the the siteand the hospital resonated with
me.
So I felt like it was a goodfit.
I did take a 1099 position withthem, which is very
untraditional.
Um, and the reason I did it wasbecause I was a little bit
(28:32):
brazen saying, well, I mean, Idon't really need your benefits.
I'm really young, like I don'tneed health insurance and this
retirement stuff you keeptalking about.
And I just want to pay off mystudent loans and make as much
money as I can.
And so back then, again, we'retalking 2007, I took a 1099
position with the group thatunfortunately offered that.
(28:53):
And 1099 essentially is just anIRS classification of an
independent contractor versus aW-2, which is not an independent
contractor, you're an employeeof an employer.
So your employer would be thehospital or anesthesia group or
whoever.
Whereas a 1099 independentcontractor, you're the employee
and the employer.
So that's really essentially thedifference, and it's an IRS
(29:16):
classification.
So I took a job with them, but Iwas also very transparent, and I
said, my wife or my fiance atthe time is applying to
residency programs, and she hasapplied to Atlanta Medical
Center and Emory and some localplaces, but you know, in the
mass process, we don't knowwhere she's gonna go.
(29:36):
And so I actually um you know,pat myself on the back.
I didn't take the full sign-onbonus uh because I said I may be
gone in a year, and I don't wantto have to pay taxes um on a
bonus that I have to returnlater.
So I said, I'll commit to beinghere for a year, but then after
that I don't know what's gonnahappen.
And they're like, no, totallyunderstand.
(29:58):
And my wife got a residency inMacon, Georgia.
And so we moved to Macon.
And there I took a W 2 positionbecause 1099 was not available.
SPEAKER_04 (30:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (30:08):
So I took a W 2 position at a small hospital in
Macon.
Now it's called Piedmont Macon.
At the time it was an HCAhospital.
And I wanted to kind of do more,you know, my wife's in
residency.
She's working 100 hours a week.
I was like, I'm in Macon,Georgia.
What am I gonna do with myself?
So I thought, well, I I need togo to the sister hospital.
It's called Navison MedicalCenter, the Med in Middle
(30:32):
Georgia.
It's a 111 trauma center.
And the ATA hospital that I wasat was a little bit of a more
regional hospital.
So they sent all the big casesto the medical center.
And I was like, oh, I'm tooyoung in my career to just be at
these small.
I want I want the gnarly stuff,right?
I want the hard cases.
And so I started doing some PRNwork for them.
And when a position opened up, Iresigned at this regional
(30:56):
hospital and I took a W-2position at the big medical
center.
Um, and then fast forward fouryears, my wife's done with
residency, and she said, We areabsolutely not staying in Macon,
Georgia.
We need to go to a big city orsomewhere close to an ocean.
And we ended up back in Atlanta.
So that's a short, short story.
SPEAKER_00 (31:15):
And Atlanta, is that the hospital where Harmony was
born?
Like, is that where you wereworking when you had the idea
for Harmony?
SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
Yes.
So I came back to Atlanta andtook a job back at Kennestone
Hospital with Georgiaanesthesiologist.
And that's when Emory um had amassive comp reset uh where they
increased everyone'scompensation uh in order to
(31:44):
retain staff because it wasbecoming harder and harder to
recruit anesthesiaprofessionals.
So two rounds of WT raises, andI went to my friends, the
anesthesiologist that I workwith, and I said, Look, I do
cardiac for you guys, I donights, I do weekends, you know,
I'm super flexible.
I'd like to get an increase inmy rate because at the time,
(32:08):
again, I I went back to them asa 1099.
And I said, Oh, absolutely rad.
Uh, we'll talk about the nextboard meeting.
You know, one month goes by, twomonths go by.
Hey, you know, what's going onhere?
Can we revisit this?
Oh, I'm so sorry.
We'll talk about a next boardmeeting again.
Six months went by and I waslike, okay, I'm feeling like
(32:29):
maybe I'm not top priority here.
And I talked to a colleague, uh,which is still a friend, an
anesthesiologist friend of mine,and he said, you know, you
should really just go talk to anagency, they'll represent you
better, and you'll get moreleverage.
And I thought, okay, sure, letme do that.
Uh, I've never worked with anagency before.
I've always just gone directlyto the groups that I know, but
(32:52):
let me go talk to an agency.
And so I did that.
I reached out to some of the bignames that are out there, and lo
and behold, they didn't staffDAAs.
Or I'd go on their website andI'd click on the little
drop-down menu and it would sayCRNA and MDA.
So frustrating.
And I was like, why?
This is crazy.
(33:12):
And then on top of that, MaryJean, I'm the guy that they're
sending, and I'm not claiming tobe the best anesthetist.
I'm not like some superstaranesthetist.
I think I'm pretty good, but I'mnot like, you know, you know,
top tier by any means, right?
I mean, I'm not doing doing likepediatric hearts or anything
like that.
But but, you know, they theywould send me to get this locum
(33:35):
out of a room that wasuncomfortable being there
because you know, this locum hadbeen at outpatient centers that
was uncomfortable doing bellycases.
And I'm like, oh wow.
So these groups are paying apremium to agencies that are not
doing a very good job ofsourcing candidates.
So they're frustrated.
I'm having to go in there, oranother of my one of my
(33:56):
colleagues, and they're gettingfrustrated.
I was like, I can do thisbetter.
I can absolutely do this better.
So I kind of read the tea leavesand said, I'm gonna give this a
try.
And I and I 100% recognize theimportance of an agency because
you get the board's attention,you get the hospital system's
(34:17):
attention because you'reproviding a collective solution.
And it's not that the groupdidn't care about me, it's just
that they had bigger prioritiesto deal with, right?
And so when they are workingwith an agency that's providing
them a collective solution ofmaybe 10 FTEs.
You know, uh you, this oneindependent contractor, you
(34:37):
know, you're just not going tobe high priority for them
because they're working with abigger entity that's going to
solve a bigger problem for them.
SPEAKER_00 (34:44):
Yeah.
I know that that is such aresonant problem within all of
anesthesia, but also likepersonally for CAAs, like I felt
that exact frustration.
But I do want to just rewind alittle bit and just pull out
some parts of that journey formaybe um listeners who aren't as
familiar with, you use like alot of terms and like a lot of
(35:04):
things that feel normal ifyou're in this world.
But um I just want to highlightexactly the problem that you
were facing, which was that youwere a 1099 employee.
You just created your ownpersonal like solo LLC or
however you classified yourself.
You were working directly for ahospital.
It was during a time when theywere really struggling to hire
(35:25):
people.
So what happens in thatenvironment is that everyone at
a hospital gets a raise toentice new employees.
Like, hey, look, we're gettingwe're all getting, you know, top
dollar in the city.
And it sounds like they had todo that several times, which
means they were probably quitelow compared to um like other
people in the city to draw newemployees in.
(35:46):
And during that time, you werelike, okay, I'm a 1099, I'm not
receiving those W-2 increases inpay.
So I'm gonna go and advocate formyself to my friends, the group
that is of anesthesiologists,this private anesthesia group
that has hired me and values me,I know, and they weren't able to
(36:07):
deliver value back to you in theform of compensation.
And that is that frustration ofbeing a highly capable, highly
needed, very skilled CAA, butyou don't have the power to
advocate for yourself.
And you're saying particularlyis because you were solo and not
(36:28):
part of a staffing agency.
Um, and that agency word, I justwant to make sure people
understand.
So, yeah, what were we gonnasay?
SPEAKER_01 (36:36):
Well, ironically, the name of my LLC company when
I was working solo is called OneSource Anesthesia, which is kind
of funny.
But yeah, you're one guy, right?
An agency is a staffing agency,just like you can think of a
sports agency that represents alot of athletes, right?
A staffing agency presents a lotof providers and is able to
provide a collective solution toa practice that's, you know, if
(37:00):
they're short staffed with fivefull-time equivalent employees,
then an agency come can come inlike Harmony and say, look, we
can provide you with all five ofthose employees until your
recruitment department canadjust their package and do a
better job of recruitingfull-time staff.
SPEAKER_00 (37:20):
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Okay.
Talk to me about the transitionfrom one source anesthesia,
which yes, that is ironic, tobecoming harmony while working
at the same institution, right?
You you just kind of likeswitched up how you were billing
them, or like I don't even knowthe appropriate words.
Like, talk to us about that, I'massuming, clunky transition
(37:41):
period.
SPEAKER_01 (37:43):
I would say the primary word that I would use is
just transparency.
I've always been verytransparent with what I'm trying
to do.
And I find that it's always thebest approach because I went to
the groups and I said, Hey, Italked to some agencies.
I have noticed that you'rehaving some staffing
difficulties.
I've noticed that you're usingan agency that doesn't utilize
(38:05):
CAAs.
What do you think about meproviding you with some folks
that would be a better fit?
And they're like, You do youthink you can do that?
And I was like, Yeah.
You're like, well, sure, send usthe contract.
And I was like, I'll get righton that, you know?
And Google how to create acontract.
Exactly.
I went on Google and I was like,you know, how do you how do you
(38:26):
uh, you know, write a contractand and did some research and
and pieced one together and sentit to them and and uh you know
got the first first contract.
Of course, then it's like, ohman, now we have to deliver on
this, you know?
And so then again, reaching outto our network and and saying,
look, this is what I'm doing,this is what I'm trying to
pursue.
Is anyone interested?
(38:47):
And then fortunately we had thefaith of our community that
said, Yeah, well, we'd we'd loveto help you with this.
And and yeah, we would certainlybe interested.
And and that's how it kind ofbegan.
Very grassroots.
Very grassroots.
SPEAKER_00 (38:59):
And when was this?
What year was this?
SPEAKER_01 (39:01):
This was uh November of 2019, is when we decided to
officially, I decided toofficially launch Harmony and
get going as an agency.
Which wasn't the best year,because I was gonna say 2020 was
it was a little rough, you know.
Um a lot of furloughed employeesand had to have some really
(39:22):
difficult conversations aboutyou know uh cancellations of of
of uh shifts and things of thatnature, which happened to me as
well.
Um, and so yeah, that was arough year, but uh, I'm glad
that's all behind us.
SPEAKER_00 (39:34):
Yes, trial by fire, I suppose.
Um you learned a lot, I'm sure,unfortunately.
Unfortunately, but um, and justso the the first few employees,
like the first few contractors,were again your CAA friends,
your CAA community in Georgia,which is very strong.
It it is where the CA professionwas born.
Atlanta in particular hasprobably the densest population
(39:57):
of CAAs, I would assume.
Um, and so you kind of reachedout to that network and was
like, hey, is anyone wantingthis type of arrangement?
And you just got some yeses andran from there, I assume.
SPEAKER_01 (40:08):
Yep, that's exactly right.
And you know, we had theopportunity to expand the agency
into other subspecialties, andwe intentionally decided to
essentially stay in our lane andstick to what we know and be a
single specialty focused agency,right?
And so we decided that cRNAs,CAAs, and anesthesiologists were
(40:34):
gonna be the only provider typesthat we were gonna focus on on
staffing because hospitals wereasking us, well, oh, well, we
also need anesthesia techs, wealso need surgical techs, we
also need packing nurses, wealso need that.
And we're like, maybe, maybenot.
Let's just stick to let's juststick to a arena that we're
comfortable with.
SPEAKER_00 (40:53):
Okay, so now I I would love to hear the the
nitty-gritty or the what itreally felt like to build
harmony from, you know, you cangive us a little bit of the
COVID because certainly that wasright when you were building it,
but just kind of what it feltlike to take this from zero to
(41:13):
uh a functioning, profitable,impacting company.
SPEAKER_01 (41:19):
I would say that for anyone who's interested in in
pursuing an entrepreneurialventure, and I know it sounds
cliche, but you've really got todig deep and think of the why.
Why are you doing this?
What is your purpose?
If you don't have a mission andyou don't have a purpose, any
kind of financial success willnot be enough to sustain the
(41:42):
headwinds that you are going tobe facing, the disappointments,
the challenges, the grit thatyou need to have to persevere
those challenges.
You have to have a why.
And so for me, my why was veryclear.
And so going from an agency thatreceived success, proof of
(42:04):
concept in in early 2019, andthen being met with the
challenges of COVID literallymonths later, if you don't have
that why and that purpose-drivenmission in mind, you cannot
persevere.
And so I would say that youknow, the biggest challenge to a
lot of I think youngentrepreneurs is not having that
(42:28):
that mission and that purpose.
And once you have that, then Ithink the grit comes with it.
I know it sounds cliche, but butit really is what allowed us to
continue to go forward eventhough we were faced with a
number of challenges.
SPEAKER_00 (42:42):
Along my own journey, like you saying you
have to have a why, I'mthinking, I know my why, right?
And like something just deeplycame up for me.
Like, well, I'll just share.
My why is to create connectionin the CA profession and with
ourselves, like connection withmyself and connection with
others in the CAA profession.
Um, and that is my deepest why.
(43:03):
And you can take that intoeverything I I do.
And I I know that that haschanged, it's evolved, it has
hit different things for me.
But that's been at the essence.
And I'm just wondering if youcan articulate kind of what that
why was for Harmony and and whatkept you going.
SPEAKER_01 (43:20):
I mean, the why for us has always been to be a
non-agency agency.
Okay.
That is the why, because Ialmost felt like an agency was
like a dirty word for a lot ofthese groups.
Like, oh, we don't work withagencies.
Like we absolutely don't workwith agencies.
And so we wanted to be somethingdifferent, right?
While still servicing our CAcommunity.
(43:43):
And so the why for us was sayingwe we can do this significantly
better than what's out there,right?
And so just seeing theopportunity and wanting to be
that non-agency agency, beingtransparent, being
mission-driven, being the agencythat actually does a deep dive
into vetting and providesquality folks instead of just a
(44:06):
warm body that that is filling avoid.
Yes, I think that's always beenthe why for us.
You know, with that also comes alot of altruistic benefits that
we never realized when we'redoing this business.
Um and by that I mean providerswho've come up to me and said,
Hey, I just want to let youknow, you've completely changed
(44:27):
my life.
And I'm like, Oh, you know, andthey're like, Oh, well, I, you
know, I I used to miss my mydaughter's softball games all
the time because I was beingheld late at the hospital, or
you know, I'm now more presentat, you know, with with the
family.
And a lot of it has to do withwith you know working parents.
And so that just feels really,really good, right?
And so those are kind of just Iwould say gravy on top when
(44:52):
you're building a business thathelp you kind of continue to
push forward, right?
SPEAKER_00 (44:56):
Yeah.
I'm hearing two things when yousay non-agency agency.
And one of them you kind oftouched on when you were sharing
that, you know, you're a highvalue CAA, 1099, who's being
asked to go and relieve a locumswho doesn't feel comfortable.
Like that is a verystereotypical sort of version of
understanding what a locums is.
(45:18):
It's it's an anesthesia providerthat maybe can't fit in with a
group, like a normal group.
And so they go into the locumsmarket, or someone who has
limited skill set for whateverreason and just like comes in as
a locums.
And if you're in a W-2, likeyou're the full-time employee,
you're like, oh, the locumsdoesn't do caratives, they don't
do harsh, they don't do okay, sothe locums has to be in lack
collies all day.
(45:38):
Like that is a verystereotypical usage, I guess.
And your approach is soradically different and also,
you know, holds up CAAs in away.
And here comes my question isthat like I feel deeply
protective over CAAs.
Like, no, we are an amazinggroup of practitioners.
(45:59):
Like, we have this underdogspirit of us that I think always
wants us to be seen as competentand good enough.
And and I don't want to put thaton you, but I'm just wondering
if there's any of that in yourwhy that, like, no, I want to
prove that CAAs can be thissolution that you never saw
coming because we are thatamazing.
Like, I just I'm hearing maybe aresonance there, and I'm
(46:21):
wondering what you think aboutthat.
SPEAKER_01 (46:23):
Well, a hundred percent.
First of all, you are on pointwhen you say that locums 15
years ago, when I started doingit, the question I would get
from anesthesiologist is, oh,where do you work?
I'm like, well, oh, this is whatI do.
Yeah.
And immediately there's like,well, there must be some kind of
like personality issue with thisguy, or or maybe he doesn't have
(46:43):
the right skill set, you know.
And you'd have to just, youknow, just let all that kind of
bounce off and say, no, no, no.
This is this is a lifestyle thatI am choosing, right?
And this is something that I'mdoing because it's best for my
family.
Because my wife is an OBGYN, shetakes a lot of call, and we
don't want the kids raised bythe nannies and the opairs.
(47:04):
So this is a choice that I'mmaking.
It's not that I don't haveopportunities as a W-2, I'm just
choosing to do this, right?
So I 100% agree with you that 15years ago, that was the
overarching perception oflocums.
And a lot of it was the correctperception because there were a
(47:24):
lot of folks in the locums arenathat just couldn't get W-2 jobs
or had certain personalityissues or whatever.
That's completely changed.
Completely changed.
Now it's a lifestyle choice.
It's something that a lot ofeven young anesthesiologists are
coming out of practice, aprivate practice group, and
saying, well, I'm I'm anemployee of a hospital, there's
(47:45):
no partnership track here.
And you know what?
I value my work life balancemore so than I do a paycheck
that this hospital is offering.
And so, no, I'm choosing to dolocums because it's it's what I
want to do.
I want to travel, I want to haveother interests, I want to do
whatever.
So it has provided a conduit forthem as well, right?
And then to answer your secondpart of your question, the why,
(48:07):
yes, I love going to practicegroups.
Let's say it's CRNA owned.
And they, there's just so muchmisinformation about CAAs in
that community.
And it's like, no, no, we workhand in hand with CRNAs all the
time.
And guess what?
If you if you are comfortablebringing CAs into the group,
you'll get lunches and you'llget to go home on time.
And we can help your workforcechallenges.
(48:31):
And your current CRNA communityisn't meeting that need, so why
not explore an alternativeoption, right?
And so, no, I I love doing that.
And we do a lot of thateducation and we do a lot of
advocacy.
My business partner, Sassy, andI are very, very involved in
that educational and advocacyportion of our business.
SPEAKER_00 (48:49):
So thank you for putting a finer point on that
because yeah, I mean, you evenhear in my own like relay, sort
of bias understanding of locums.
And I was wanting to do locums.
Like when I had a careertransition, I was like, okay,
locums maybe is the place forme.
And I did not know about Harmonyat the time.
This was like five years ago.
So you were just gettingstarted.
(49:10):
And I went to a big locumsagency, and that drop-down box
didn't have CAAs.
And I called them and they werelike, who the heck are CAAs?
And I was like, okay, click,I'll find something else.
But yeah.
So thank you.
Okay, I actually youtransitioned beautifully because
I have a whole bunch ofquestions on the impact that I
(49:30):
see Harmony making in the CAAcommunity.
And you just said your businesspartner, Sassy, and you do a ton
of advocacy work, like boots onthe ground, explaining what a
CAA is to people who've neverheard of us.
That is relentless, tiresomework.
And I know you're so passionateabout that.
So tell me, kind of in this new,let's call it a new uh era of
(49:54):
harmony, like as it's expandingand getting, you know, we're
seeing you at the Quad A, liketalk to us about that evolution.
SPEAKER_01 (50:01):
So we do staff in 10 different states, and we are
unofficially, because I don'tknow if anyone's measured this,
but unofficially represent moreCAs than any other agency in the
country.
And the advocacy work that we'redoing is very I'll give you
examples.
I think that works better.
Please.
So we're we're at the ASAAdvance meeting, uh, meeting
(50:21):
with practice administrators,meeting with CFOs, talking to
them about how we can solvetheir workforce challenges with
an alternative provider, whichis a CAA.
Right?
We went to the Carolinas andTennessee Society of
Anesthyologist meeting inAsheville.
Again, speaking to practiceadministrators, speaking to
(50:42):
boards, the board of the TSA,letting them know who we are,
and getting a lot of interestfrom practice groups that say,
yeah, we are really strugglingwith our workforce, and we would
love to learn more about whatCAs are.
We get questions like, well, canCAs take call?
Of course we can say call.
What do you mean?
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (51:01):
Yeah.
It's shocking.
It's shocking how how muchmisinformation there is, how
much ignorance, and not in ahorrible way, but just like you
just didn't know.
They they just don't know aboutus.
SPEAKER_01 (51:12):
100%.
And you know, the uh states likeTennessee that where we just got
licensure, big kudos to the quadA for all their efforts there.
You know, there's a lot ofinterest.
They're like, look, we've putforth all this money, time,
effort, energy in gettinglicensed for CAAs.
There's a reason for it.
And the reason is that they needworkforce solutions and they
want to incorporate CAs intotheir practice.
(51:34):
And so we talked to them aboutbylaws changes that need to
happen, how to do it.
You know, I think you have to bethis very upfront with the staff
and introducing the rightcandidates to an opportunity
that may be challenging atfirst, right?
You may enter a hospital whereyou may not be welcomed
initially, but you have torepresent the CA profession well
(51:57):
to make sure that everyone feelscomfortable with this new
provider type.
And not just the anesthesiadepartment.
Surgeons, the nurses, the PACUnurses, everyone in the
interoperative setting needs tobe comfortable with you.
And you have to present yourselfin a very professional manner
that that shows that you're verycompetent, you're very
professional, and you're thereas a guest to help solve their
(52:21):
problem.
SPEAKER_00 (52:22):
And you kind of spoke on this a little bit, but
I'm I'm thinking of maybepracticing CAAs who are
listening.
I'm like, I kind of want to dothe locums thing, and maybe I
will contact Harmony and and amI that person who um feels like
they could well represent theCAA profession?
And what are you exactly lookingfor?
(52:42):
Like, can you tell me sort ofyour ideal CAA candidate that
you would have represent Harmonyand represent our profession?
SPEAKER_01 (52:50):
Well, I would say right off the bat, you want to
have at least two years ofexperience.
Okay.
A lot of the agencies willengage with new graduates.
We do not.
We think that if you don't haveat least two years of
experience, then you're not outthere to represent the
profession in the best waypossible, right?
SPEAKER_04 (53:06):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (53:07):
You got to be flexible.
You were there to do the casesthat nobody else wants to do,
right?
So you may do GI every singleday.
You may do thoracic every singleday.
You know, we can talk to thepractice group and say, hey,
listen, you know, so and so, youknow, Mary Jean is capable of
doing more than GI, you know,and she's she's told us recently
that she's been there for thelast two weeks, you know.
(53:27):
Could we maybe reassign hersomeplace else?
Most practice groups, we can dothat.
We can solve that problem,right?
Because we want to make surethat you have a good assignment.
We also want to make sure thatwe're fixing the problem for for
the for the group.
So I would say flexibility,experience, professionalism,
right?
When things don't go your way,if there's an issue that needs
to be resolved, we have topresent ourselves in a way
(53:49):
that's very professional.
The approach to solving aproblem is oftentimes what gets
people in trouble, right?
So you have to maintain theconcept that you're there as a
guest.
You're not an employee of thisgroup.
You're there as a guest in orderto solve their issue, their
problem.
(54:09):
And in order to do that, youhave to be super flexible.
I mean that's yeah, I can'tstress that more.
Um, so yeah, I mean, I say thoseare characteristics of an ideal
candidate.
SPEAKER_00 (54:19):
And like in my own, in my own experience of working
PRN, which you staff people whoare PRN and who have longer what
are referred to as locumscontracts, which are generally
like three, six, twelve months.
Um and again, there's a lot oflanguage in this that might be
new to some people, but in myPRN experience, I want control
(54:44):
and I have to give flexibility.
And when you're saying I needCAAs who are willing to be
flexible, it doesn't mean youcan't also, as the provider,
have a sense of control overyour schedule or control over
the types of cases you want todo.
And not meaning I can't do thesetypes of cases, but what we're
saying is like, hey, I can dothe bigger cases.
(55:05):
You don't have to isolate meinto, you know, one room all the
time because you think I canonly do that.
And just for a really tangibleexample of this in my own life,
as someone who works PRN andonly one day a week, that's my
control.
I control, I work one day aweek.
It is always Thursdays.
However, I was getting put intoGI every single time and I
(55:26):
wanted to do the bigger cases.
If I'm only working one day aweek, I want to do A-lines every
so often, and it's not gonnahappen unless I change
something.
And so I ended up telling them Iwant to work 12-hour shifts.
Would that be something youneed?
Could that solve a problem foryou?
Because GI closes at 5 p.m.
So I knew I had to go somewhereelse from five to seven.
(55:48):
And they were like, yeah, great,that's actually really helpful
because it allows more people togo home earlier.
And like I just always haveapproached this like, hey, I get
something, you get something,and there's a way to meet.
And I would assume that's whatharmony helps match.
You know, what are the needs ofthe institutions and then what
are the needs of the CAA who'sapplying, and how do we make
those match?
(56:08):
That's the role an agency plays.
Am I right in thatunderstanding?
SPEAKER_01 (56:13):
100%.
And we're we're at the barebones, ground level, we are
matchmakers, right?
And if we're not doing a goodjob of sourcing candidates,
setting their expectations forthe appropriate site, yeah, then
we're just not doing a good job.
You know?
Interesting to say that aboutthe GI situation.
I mean, we actually have had anumber of candidates that work
(56:33):
full-time at a GI center thatwant to have exposure to larger
cases to maintain their skillset, right?
And say, look, I want to dolocums, like you said, one day a
week on a PRM basis at a largerinstitution because I want to
maintain my skills.
Yeah.
I mean, I do cardiac one day aweek because I want to maintain
my skill set.
I still like doing centrallines, I still like doing A
(56:55):
lines.
In fact, I love being in the ORstill.
It's significantly morefulfilling than my admin days,
you know, working on harmony.
So yes, I completely agree withall of that.
SPEAKER_00 (57:04):
Wonderful.
I just I'm hoping CAAs arehearing opportunity when they
hear us talking about this.
Because yeah, I just think ifyou've never thought about how
you can serve the CAA professionby like going out into a new
location or like taking a chanceand being that for are there
CAAs in Tennessee?
I don't know.
But being the first CAA at ahospital, not yet, not yet.
SPEAKER_01 (57:26):
Not yet, not yet.
SPEAKER_00 (57:27):
Okay, it is like huge opportunity.
SPEAKER_01 (57:30):
Yeah, Sassy, um, my business partner is actually the
TN AAA president.
So he's gonna be the statesociety president, and so he's
from Memphis, and so he's just agreat fit for it.
So that's another example of ofthe advocacy that we do, you
know, as an agency.
SPEAKER_00 (57:46):
So and um, you know, not a secret that you are
supporting me as a CAAentrepreneur and as someone who
is trying to make change withinthe profession.
Like Harmony has enabled you tomove outside of the operating
room.
And, you know, I see you at theQuad A, like before we had this
(58:07):
partnership.
I saw you at the Quad A and Isee you on Instagram at all
these other um state societymeetings, both for Quad A
component societies and the ASAcomponent societies.
I'm like blown away by how muchwork you're doing for the CAA
profession.
I guess I want to know where yousee this going in 10 years.
Like what would be a beautifulpayoff for all this effort?
(58:29):
Or are you just like living inthe moment?
Let's see where it goes.
SPEAKER_01 (58:33):
Um, no, there's all there's always a roadmap for
success, right?
Tell us, yes.
Yeah, so advocacy.
Uh Sassy, my business partner,is uh a GAA board.
Okay.
Member over the GSA.
I'm a member of the GSA.
We're diamond sponsors uh at theQuad A and we'll be again next
year.
We're sustaining members of theQuad A, right?
(58:54):
Sassy, like I said, is anincoming TNAA president.
I'm on the legislative committeeof the Quad A.
We are again very much involvedin the profession.
And roadmap to success, I think,would be for CAA locums to be an
option in every single statewhere we have licensure.
(59:16):
When you go to Gasworks, and ifwe have licensure in Washington
State, which we do, there shouldbe CAA locums opportunities
there.
Either for groups who arecurrently employing CAAs and
even for groups who are notcurrently employing CAs that
want to incorporate CAAs intotheir practice.
And they want to demystify a lotof that misinformation about
(59:37):
CAAs by introducing locums intotheir practice, right, as these
temporary employees to let thestaff know that look, this is a
great alternative to a CRNA poolthat's not currently meeting our
needs, right?
So that would be, I think, therecipe or or the pathway to
success.
(59:58):
In five years, we would be ableto look at the map, go to gas
works, go to these job boards,go to bag mask.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00:04):
There you go.
I was like, go to bagmask.com.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:07):
Yeah, go to bag mask, you know, uh support
another CA entrepreneur and beable to choose a locums position
in every state that we havelicensure in.
Currently, that is not the case.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00:20):
Yes, yes, that sounds amazing.
And I foresee that happening inour lifetime, like in our career
span.
It's gonna happen 100%.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:29):
I mean, we're not stopping until it does, like it
will happen.
So, no question about it, MaryJean.
This this is happening, and itit will be I will check the box
for we have succeeded once thathappens.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00:43):
I love it.
I can't wait to celebrate whenthat happens for you and for us.
And I also want to say that umwe spoke a little bit before we
started recording, and I waslike, Rad, how much do you work?
Like, how what are your hours?
Because I do think part of thatentrepreneurial dream and um,
you know, some of what's sold inlike the zeitgeist of being an
(01:01:04):
entrepreneur is that you're, youknow, sipping like margaritas on
a beach somewhere, and you'reworking more, you're working
more on harmony than a full-timejob, in addition to working
nearly full-time hours as apracticing CAA.
So this is this is a fuel insideof you that like keeps going.
(01:01:25):
It's not necessarily an endpoint.
It's not like, okay, I startedharmony.
Harmony can like run on its owntwo feet and like I'm in and
out, retire, and like sit backand stop doing everything that I
started.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:36):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, not not at all.
I mean, we are not on easystreet, you know.
I would say 60, 70 hours a weekeasily are spent on work, um,
both clinically and on harmony,more in harmony than clinical
hours, you know.
Um, I'm in the operating roomtwo, maybe three days a week.
Heck, I'm working this Sundaybecause one of our clients
(01:01:58):
needed it.
So I stepped in.
But yeah, I think that if youdon't have going back to what we
were saying before, if you don'thave that mission-driven
mindset, if you don't have thatpurpose, it's gonna be tough to
put in those hours, right?
Um because at this point, thedrive is is in the mission, is
is more so than any kind offinancial benefit that we would
(01:02:20):
get from it.
It's it's beyond that.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02:22):
Well, I am so grateful to share your story and
to hold you up as what it meansto be a CAA right now.
And I'm just excited to continuewatching your journey.
And I am grateful that youdecided to partner with me for
season five of the podcast.
I am not shy in saying like yourbelief in me has allowed me to
(01:02:44):
um, you know, buy healthinsurance for my family.
Like there are reallylogistical, practical things
that CAAs who are entrepreneursneed.
And when you agreed to be um thepartner, you were like, I want
to help you.
Like, I want to see you succeed.
And there's this sort of, yeah,there's like a little cluster of
people who are in the CAAentrepreneur space.
(01:03:06):
And we always are like shoutingout to each other and trying to
hold each other up.
Um, and it's just really cool tobe a part of.
So I'm just grateful for you ona lot of levels.
And yeah, I'm excited to uhcontinue supporting you and
seeing where it all goes.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03:19):
Likewise.
And kudos to everything thatyou're doing, uh, Mary Jean.
Uh I I love it.
I think that uh there's anaudience that is craving to hear
these stories.
And I hope that we're uh able toprovide a value to them when
they listen to this podcast.
Um and so yeah, thank you forfor having me.
Um, you know, doing a podcastwasn't on my bucket list, but I
guess I can check that box nowtoo.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03:40):
So it's so fun, isn't it fun?
SPEAKER_01 (01:03:43):
I just want the I just want the viewers and the
audience to get something out ofit, you know.
Yeah, and I'm hoping that we canprovide that for them.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03:49):
You did.
You totally did, and I'm excitedto share it with everyone.
So all right, thanks, Radio.
Thanks for listening to AwakenedAnesthetist.
If this episode resonated withyou, share it with a CAA friend,
(01:04:11):
an AA student in your life, or aperspective, and let them know
why you loved it.
It's the most important thingyou can do to support this
podcast and its mission.
You can always find more ways toconnect with me and this CAA
community atawakenedanesthetist.com,
including an invitation to joinseason.
(01:04:33):
Mindful Connections.
These are free virtualgatherings open to anyone in our
awakened anaesthetist community.
And while you're scrolling thewebsite, check out my trusted
CAA partners who make thispodcast possible with a special
thank you to my season fivesponsor, Harmony Anesthesia
Staffing.
Talk soon.
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