October 17, 2025 • 56 mins
In this episode, we trace Kate’s path from engineering to CAA, the messy middle of finding her voice, and the work of turning loss into a children's book about anesthesia. Along the way, we unpack her New Mexico CAA advocacy journey and what it means to live by design. Hear Kate's CAA story and be expanded in this Season 5 PROCESS episode.
and a HUGE Thank YOU to our Season 5 PROCESS sponsor, Harmony Anesthesia Staffing.
Harmony is CAA-owned, clinician-forward, and leading the way in the CAA locums market. Schedule your free 15-min consult and see how locums can work for you. Say 'hi' to Rad and Sasi for me when you do!
also mentioned in this episode
- Kate's NYC Billboard
- Anesthesia Dreamland website
- Night Night Sweet Child: Safe Blastoff to Anesthesia Dreamland on Amazon
- Previous PROCESS ep. 36 detailing New Mexico SB 35 (ft. Lindsey Diaz)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
I'm honored to introduce our season five
(00:02):
flagship sponsor, HarmonyAnesthesia Staffing, a locums
company founded by CAAs and forCAAs.
Like this podcast, Harmony isrooted in the belief that our
work and our lives are mostfulfilling when they align with
our values.
Harmony exists to help CAAsshape careers that truly support
(00:25):
the life you want to live.
A life by design, not default.
Throughout season five, you'llget to know Harmony more deeply,
their origin story, theirgrowth, the CAAs behind the
name, and what it's really liketo work with them.
I think you'll find their visionand mission resonate with the
same themes we explore here onAwakened Anesthetist and in this
(00:47):
process series.
And knowing that, let's stepinto this expansive process
episode.
Welcome to the AwakenedAnesthetist Podcast, the first
podcast to highlight the CAAexperience.
I'm your host, Mary Jean, andI've been a certified
(01:09):
anesthesiologist assistant forclose to two decades.
Throughout my journey andstruggles, I've searched for
guidance that includes my uniqueperspective as a CAA.
At one of my lowest points, Idecided to turn my passion for
storytelling and my belief thatthe CAA profession is uniquely
able to create a life by designinto a podcast.
(01:32):
If you are a practicing CAA,current AA student, or someone
who hopes to be one, I encourageyou to stick around and
experience the power of being ina community filled with voices
who sound like yours, sharingexperiences you never believed
possible.
I know you will find yourselfhere at the Awakened Anesthetist
(01:53):
Podcast.
Welcome in.
Hello to all my fellow CAAs, AAstudents, and those dreaming of
becoming one.
I'm your host, Mary Jean, andthis is Awakened Anesthetist
Season 5.
Welcome to our process interviewseries where we go behind the
title of CertifiedAnesthesiologist Assistant to
(02:14):
discover the truth of what ittakes to build a life with
meaning and integrity as a CAA.
These episodes expand ourunderstanding of what a CAA can
be and do, and they move uscloser to living by design, not
by default.
Sometimes a guest finds thispodcast at just the right
(02:34):
moment, and sometimes it takes acouple years.
And now I know without a doubtthat Kate's story is meant to be
shared right here and right now.
I had met Kate two quad days agoin Orlando, Florida, and we
bonded over our sharedout-of-the-OR interests, and I
wrote down her name as apotential podcast guest then.
(02:56):
And then life happened.
So when we reconnected justbefore Quad A 2025, and she
mentioned she was on the vergeof releasing her first
children's book, I knew this wasthe right time to bring her on.
Kate is a CAA, a curriculumbuilder, a lifelong learner, and
someone who has turned her griefinto purpose.
She's the assistant didacticprogram director at the
(03:18):
University of New Mexico's MSAprogram and a practicing CAA who
has helped shape the evolutionof AAs in the Southwest.
In this conversation, Kateshares what it means to walk
through the fire.
From divorce to advocacy to therecent loss of her mother, Kate
emerges more grounded, moreintentional, and more in love
(03:40):
with the power of education thanever before.
It is my honor to welcome KateNovens to the Awakened Anestis
podcast.
Okay.
Well, Miss Kate Novens, tell ushow a CAA, a practicing CAA,
gets their first children's bookon a New York Times billboard.
SPEAKER_01 (04:02):
Well, I thoroughly appreciate you highlighting my
book, which you can see in thebackground.
And it's definitely a labor oflove over the past year, almost
a love letter to my mom whotaught me the love of reading.
And I was very grateful for theopportunity because the book
company that I was working withcalled Digital Book Labs.
And they helped me with all thepublishing, helped on the
(04:23):
illustrations to kind of bringmy images to life.
They were the ones that actuallyknew of the billboard and had a
connection based upon how mybook was worded and who they
thought would like it.
So they're the ones that helpedme compile the uh video trailer
and then get it on a billboard,which my husband's son and I had
a travel to see.
(04:44):
So I was very grateful for theopportunity to kind of see my
vision turn into reality and seeit up on a billboard, especially
with my son who saw it andrecognized my picture.
But very special memory.
SPEAKER_00 (04:57):
I love that.
Yeah, we'll share in the shownotes because you posted on
Instagram, which is how I knewthat.
I was like, wait a minute, she'son a billboard, folks.
I was like, what?
I need to know more.
And I knew we were having thisconversation.
So I I'm very interested as aCAA content creator and
entrepreneur.
I'm very tapped into those CAAswho are doing something
(05:18):
different outside of theoperating room.
And I love to hear sort of themessy middle of all of it.
Like being on a New York Timesbillboard is kind of the amazing
end and having your bookpublished.
But when did that first idea ofhaving your name on a children's
book come to be?
And like why writing, whychildren's books?
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Wonderful question.
So I actually spoke about itwith my mom.
Um, I say two people were theones that I share the idea with.
My mom and then uh CassieLangles, who was our program
director and one of my dearfriends.
And years ago, when I had myfirst son, I remember just read
learning the love of readingchildren's books.
Like I read a lot of Dr.
Seuss, so you can see thatwhimsy in how I speak,
(06:02):
especially the one, oh, theplaces you'll go.
And I just I love books, and itreally teaches me how to see.
Kind of my mom always said, whenyou read it in a book, you can
imagine it.
And what you imagine is so muchmore brilliant than in a movie.
So I always wanted to one daywrite a book, and then I think
having a son and justconversations off the cuff with
like people that I have aroundme that inspire me and motivate
(06:25):
me, I was like, I can do that.
I have a story to teach, andespecially around anesthesia,
because kids are so frightened,they don't know what to expect.
And I do more and more pediatricanesthesia here just over the
years, it's found me.
And if a child, and this is kindof the message that I can
empower a child througheducation so they understand,
but also not making them asafraid of healthcare workers and
(06:48):
the procedure.
So just kind of, I'd say amyriad of experiences, and I
definitely like being atrailblazer and thinking outside
of the box.
So when I saw an open in openingin the market and something that
I don't think a CAA has writtena book, and I was like, hey, I
can I I'll be the one to dothat.
Um I like being given achallenge, and I think it really
(07:10):
pushed me to want to do thatbecause it found me.
And when you do something thatis authentic and that, I'd say
that entrepreneurial spirit thatI have now, especially with my
everything my mom taught me andher not being here, it's a good
gusto and a good push to want tofinally do something and put it
to kind of put pen to paper andwrite down something you had
been thinking of.
SPEAKER_00 (07:31):
I love everything you just said.
I wanted to highlight a coupleof things for people who are
listening and maybe have theirown little seedling of an idea
or hey, this inkling keeps, youknow, niggling at me.
And maybe one day is that youhad said you let people who
believe in you sort of speakinto you and tell you that it's
possible and that you should,you know, pursue this dream like
(07:54):
you can do it, and being aroundpeople who have also done their
own big thing, like all of thatchanges your mindset to think,
okay, well, if they can do it, Ican do it.
That's one of the main messagesof this podcast is like, here's
Kate Novens, who's written achildren's book.
Do you have something that youwant to do?
Like you can do this too.
And then I just love hearingthat it's not something that
(08:15):
happens overnight.
Like these are things that wesee on Instagram, you know, in
the 11th hour, but you've beenthinking about and building
towards and working towardslittle by little.
So let's get into the little bylittle, like before you were
even a CAA.
Take us back to your childhood,your upbringing, maybe who you
(08:36):
were as a kid or experiencesthat you feel like really shaped
you so we can kind of get toknow you a little better.
SPEAKER_01 (08:41):
Absolutely.
So I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio,um, very suburbia, Midwest.
But I grew up with two parentswho were very um, very
headstrong, prided themselves ineducation, but prided themselves
on teaching me kind of thelearning lessons of life.
Kind of what do you really needto know to have EQ, IQ, but
(09:02):
really how to take advantage oflife.
So I remember being a totaltomboy growing up.
I played a lot of sports.
Um, I played as much as all theguys could play.
And my mom definitely taught methat tenacity to kind of want to
keep up but be exploring andadventurous.
So a lot of the memories wereoutside, kind of my girlfriend
and I would collect rocks in ourbackyard and put them in purses,
(09:25):
like very much a tomboyexperience.
Um, but I was an only child, soI grew up kind of quicker.
Um, but my parents wanted toteach me how to live life.
So we would go out to dinner,learn the love of math from
them.
That was kind of the languagethat we spoke.
Um, in fact, if I didn't doengineering, I probably would
have done math.
So they taught me the love ofnumbers, love of science, but
(09:47):
love of asking questions.
So a lot of my upbringing wasbeing empowered to ask
questions, step outside thenormal box, kind of create my
own life.
And that's why I remember theDr.
Seuss book, All the PlacesYou'll Go.
My mom never wanted me to bereliant.
She wanted me to be empowered tobe my own person, but really
(10:08):
enjoy life.
She taught me that if you wantto go, you know, to Napa and go
wine tasting, we'll we'll go oneday.
So we did a girl's trip to Napaand went wine tasting.
We did a mom and daughter tripto South Africa.
We went and explored.
She saw her baby elephant and Isaw my flying shark.
So she taught me kind of love ofenjoying your life and really
living your life.
(10:28):
But it's it's wonderful lessonsthat I have for the rest of my
life.
SPEAKER_00 (10:33):
She sounds amazing.
I was really lucky for the bythe way I have.
Wow.
And you had said briefly thatyou would have gone into math,
if not engineering, which thenum lets us know that you lived
in one of the hubs for CAAs andyou did not go to CAA school
right out of undergrad.
(10:54):
So give us that sequence.
When did you first find outabout the CA profession?
When did you first hear aboutit?
SPEAKER_01 (10:59):
Absolutely.
So my background was my parentswere both engineers.
I did naval architecture, marineengineering, and I moved uh from
Michigan at graduation.
I moved to California.
So worked in a shipyard, didhave had a very different
trajectory.
Even though I grew up inCleveland, I had never heard of
the program, had never heard ofthe profession.
And not until I ended up goingback to Cleveland after I lived
(11:23):
in um Southern California for alittle bit, um, did my post back
pre-med stuff there, becausethat's when I went into being
like, okay, medicine is theright path.
But I think my parents were alittle bit worried about the
long path to get there.
So I was following the familyfootsteps of engineering, which
an engineering degree, you canopen up many doors with that.
And that was one thing my momtaught me.
(11:43):
So once I had my degree, workeda little bit, it wasn't the
right fit, I knew medicine wasalways my calling.
And what ended up happening wasI had volunteered in uh Santa
Monica in the like a volunteerinternship program you would
apply for.
But I worked in various parts ofthe hospital and found that I
loved anesthesia.
When I observed in OBanesthesiologist, it was so
(12:07):
technical, which was engineeringand the numbers and all the
calculations, but I liked the,you know, you never knew what
was going to happen, thecontinual challenge, the
personal kind of pull thathelped me.
It was all of the thingscombined.
So I was like, well, I guess Igotta go to med school.
I wish I would have knownearlier.
But in that moment, I moved backto Cleveland.
(12:27):
And when we moved back toCleveland, my ex-husband and
myself at the time, it was nicebecause we're able to spend time
with my parents.
But that's when I realized thatthe CAA profession existed.
After working some, I'd sayregular jobs.
I worked as a uh EMT.
Uh I drove ambulances, I workedas a quality assurance auditor
(12:47):
of a Benvenue uh pharmaceuticalfilling line that actually used
to make propofol.
And when I was there, I madeVecuronium.
So I did different things.
I mean, I worked at a sandwichshop.
I did all of this as I wastrying to apply to medical
school.
So I was kind of working my wayup.
And then how I found out aboutthe CAA profession was one night
(13:07):
I was taking an MCAT reviewclass and I drove all the way
into the city.
Ironically, it was at CACE.
So I was actually taking an MCATclass at CACE, which is where I
ended up going to school, andclass was canceled, and I was
rewarded by another girl and Ijust showed up and we said,
We're here, let's grab a cup ofcoffee.
And she told me about the MSAprogram.
(13:27):
No, and she and I was looking atanesthesia, I was from
Cleveland, I had moved all thesethings, had a lot of yes, and
then when she told me about it,part part of me honestly was
like, that sounds too good to betrue.
I didn't really believe it atfirst.
And I went home, I slowly did alittle bit more research, you
know, I was taught to askquestions, and when I looked
(13:48):
into it more and more, I waslike, this sounds too good to be
true.
So I scheduled a shadowing dayand I shadowed actually uh
Michael Patrick, who I remembergoing on to be one of my
instructors, one of my favoriteinstructors at Case.
And I shadowed him um ironicallyup in the pediatric ORs.
And the moment I saw what he didduring the day, because that was
(14:10):
the thing in engineering, I lovethe learning, I love all the
stuff.
But when I got out in the field,it just didn't fit.
And I wish I would have knownthat sooner.
So if I saw the day-to-day,that's why when I was helping us
set up the advisement servicesof our program, I really
highlight shadowing becausethat's when you know if it's
this is gonna work or this isnot.
Yes, it's not right foreveryone.
(14:31):
And the moment I saw, I waslike, I can do this.
I fell instantly in love withit.
And at that moment, it was like,okay, this was all like you
said, meant to be up until thispoint.
I just had to open my eyes andbe a little bit more cognizant
of what was happening around me.
SPEAKER_00 (14:47):
I am gonna be that person who asked you how old you
were when this all happened,because I think there's a lot of
pre-AAs out there who are comingnow from a different profession.
And so would you mind sharinghow old you were when you got
into AA school?
SPEAKER_01 (15:01):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I was born in 84 and Istarted in 2012.
Got it.
We'll let people do the math.
There you go.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
So uh I was born in 84 as well.
Awaken and S's community.
I'm jumping in here real quickto share something that hits
really close to home.
Our season five sponsor, HarmonyAnesthesia Staffing.
When Harmony started, it wasjust a few CAAs who wanted what
(15:30):
most of us want.
Certainly I wanted more balance,more respect, and more say in
how we work.
What's so cool is how they'vegrown, not by chasing contracts
or scaling quickly, but byearning trust over time.
Almost all of Harmony's growthhas come through word of mouth
from other CIAs who've had greatexperiences working with them.
(15:54):
And honestly, that says a lot.
It's proof that growth doesn'tmean losing your values.
That's something I'm reallyinspired by, is I'm building my
own mission-driven work in thisCAA space.
Harmony continues to beclinician-founded and
clinician-led with the same goalthey started with, to give CAAs
(16:16):
more opportunity, moreflexibility, and more
transparency in how we designour careers.
So if you're craving a littlemore control in your work life
and don't want to leave theprofession you love, Harmony
might be the right choice foryou.
You can grab a free 15-minuteconsultation call with one of
Harmony's founding CAAs throughthe link in the show notes.
(16:39):
It's an easy, no pressure way toexplore what's possible when
your work and your values areactually in harmony.
And now back to the episode.
So, okay, so you got into AAschool right away.
Did it take a couple times?
Did you know for sure I wantedto go to Cleveland MSA program?
SPEAKER_01 (17:01):
Great question.
So I was I was living inCleveland at the time.
It was nice because my parentswere in Cleveland.
So I was able to see them, spendtime with them, and I had jobs
there.
So I was able to at leastsustain myself for the time
being, but spend quality timewith my parents when I was in
California, I didn't have.
So I thought about primarilystaying a case and going to um
(17:25):
case Cleveland.
Um, but I will say my dad, mydad is a tough cookie.
He's like 6'5, 6'6, and Russian,and he he says little, but he
has high expectations.
But he the whole time was like,oh, you're not gonna get in a
case.
And he, I don't know if he wastrying to like give me realistic
expectations, but he grew up inCleveland and like going a case
even in Cleveland was like a bigdeal.
(17:46):
Yeah.
So he secretly, I think, wantedme to.
He just didn't want to get hishopes up.
So that's where I wanted tostay.
I had a good support system, butI applied um elsewhere.
So I applied to multipledifferent schools, and at the
time there wasn't as many asthere are now.
So I applied to UMKC.
I no, no, I didn't because theywere a different newer program.
I think Emory, South, Nova,Case, I think those were the
(18:11):
ones that I applied to based onwhat was open at the time.
And um, I got acceptancesmultiple places, but I got into
Case Cleveland on the firstround, and I was very grateful.
Um, and I was actually working,I remember ironically, at the
same job.
So that girl that told me aboutthe AA profession when we ran an
MCAT review class years later,we were both working at
(18:32):
Benvenue, which was apharmaceutical company.
She was in the microbiology lab.
I was in the quality assurancearea.
So we randomly ran into eachother and found out we were both
in the process of applying.
And I if I bless her heart, Ifelt so bad.
I think I got in and she didn't.
And I felt so bad.
(18:53):
I felt so bad because she toldme about the profession.
So I I hope she got in later onbecause I haven't seen her
since.
But it's um ironic how kind ofin life you have these weird
connections and how things justhappen.
So yeah, I was very grateful Iwas able to stay at Cleveland
and end up learning from MichaelPatrick, who I shadowed with.
(19:13):
And but yes, I have a caseCleveland grad.
SPEAKER_00 (19:16):
Okay.
And how was being a curiousquestion asker, how did that
serve you in AA school?
Was AA school like a breeze foryou?
Was it horrible and it was likesuper overwhelming?
Like, give us a little behindthe scenes.
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
Great question.
So when I was in AA school, itwas challenging.
I mean, it definitely changesyou as a person.
If you look at it not just fromthe science like the book
smarts, you look at it from thewhole taking care of a patient
and then learning about yourselfand going through grad school.
And it's a big process, it's abig transition.
(19:49):
And when I was in AA school,asking questions, I think helped
me sometimes because when I Iwould think of things from a
very critical thinking,problem-solving fashion.
I wasn't just a memorizationperson.
It had to make logical sense.
So for me, when I would learnsomething, I'd see it in clear,
it was like didactic,simulation, clinical, and it
(20:10):
just the constant flow madesense.
And when I saw something Ididn't understand, I'd ask why.
So it helped me sometimes, Ithink, absorb the amount of
knowledge that and it helpedkind of with these encoding kind
of these what if statements as Iwould kind of go through things.
Um, so on one side, veryhelpful.
(20:30):
On the opposite side, I will sayasking questions, sometimes too
many questions to be a little umglass ceiling, a little glass
ceiling-ish.
Because sometimes you may asktoo many questions.
You may get some more thingsthat shouldn't be asked about,
or some people don't, they'vebeen doing it this way for so
many years, they don't likerocking the boat.
(20:52):
So sometimes questions got me introuble.
So I'd say maybe 60% good, 40%questionable as a good ratio.
SPEAKER_00 (21:01):
You have to say more about how asking questions got
you in trouble because that issuch a nuance of medical
education um and and learning asan AA student live in the OR
with people, with CAAs who arenot necessarily trained to
educate other AAs, um, but it'sjust part of the medical
(21:23):
education system.
And as you said, sometimes youcan ask questions to maybe a
longtime CAA and they don'tactually, they've never put into
words in the last 20 years whythey do it that way.
And so it becomes this tensemoment of you almost like
testing people with questions.
And I'm only saying this becauseI am also a curious question
asker and have felt this.
(21:44):
And it is um what's the word?
I mean, it's like a catch 22.
Like it's just a really hard wayto learn.
So can you maybe give us anexample maybe from your
experience now as a preceptor orof like maybe most memorable in
school when asking a question,you know, was too much or went
over a line.
Super set.
SPEAKER_01 (22:05):
I will say now that we've been doing curriculum
building and I'm part of aprogram, I have had a lot more
edu training as an educator.
So what you're saying waslacking.
So I got my um postmaster'seducational certificate and
educational leadership from UNMin the College of Education.
So I took some classes on adultlearning, conflict management.
(22:27):
But more than that, we havetrainings within our MSA
program.
And I am very proud to be partof a program that our leadership
in Dr.
Fortner, Dr.
Langhol's, very much pridesthemselves on educating us on
how to be educators.
So we have workshops.
So for instance, I just went toa feedback workshop.
When you look at feedback, it'sthere's a way to create a safe
(22:51):
learning environment.
So I say all of this to set thestructure.
And when I as a student, I didnot understand that.
I was used to the you grid itout, like I was a female
engineer, like and I came fromyou just grid it out, you figure
it out.
So I came from more of the hardknocks, tough, tough love way of
having to fight it out.
But now that I'm in education, Ican see how beneficial it is to
(23:15):
create a safe environment andthen how you give feedback.
So you validate the person, youmake them feel heard.
There's a certain way tostructure feedback and not
squelch the students or thelearner's curiosity and question
asking, but you want to guide itin the right way.
Like I remember one time when Iwas in school, probably one of I
(23:37):
don't want to say, and I won'tsay any names, but when I was
with the preceptor, apparently Iasked too many questions that
they um they were a little rudeand abrupt to me.
Let's just say that.
Um blank.
Yeah.
So, but things like that happenand you know you move forward.
And it got me in too muchtrouble because I asked too many
questions.
And I think part of it isbecause as the preceptor, if
(24:00):
you're not empowered on how toteach, you feel like the
learner's questioning you.
You feel like they'requestioning your skills.
And yes, in hindsight, I see howpeople take it the wrong way.
They get very defensive, they umthere's more work on them to do
something that they'reuncomfortable doing, that they
already have their system intheir way.
SPEAKER_02 (24:20):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (24:20):
And now in education, it's so much more
about listening to the learnerbecause usually they have a
valid point, but it makes yougrow as a provider to become
able to explain something.
So we offer opportunities thatif you want to be comfortable
giving the education, it makesfor a better learning
environment for the student.
(24:41):
Because then the student knowsthat they're in a safe space.
The feedback is going to comefrom a good place.
It's not going to be aknee-jerk.
How dare you ask that?
It's going to be, okay, help meunderstand where you're coming
from so we can create a goodlearning environment for the
student.
Because the question can begreat.
It's just, it's knowing theright place, the right context,
(25:01):
the right person, and andfeeling okay to ask it.
SPEAKER_00 (25:05):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
You're gonna get me startedtalking about CAA Matters, which
I am going to um just ask youanother question so I don't get
talking about it.
Okay, you've mentioned a lotabout New Mexico.
You're uh practicing CAA in NewMexico, and New Mexico has
become a part of who you arefrom me knowing you and learning
(25:26):
about the culture of New Mexico.
So why don't you tell us how yougot from uh AA school in
Cleveland, Ohio to New Mexicowhen you graduated in 2014?
unknown (25:37):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (25:37):
So when I graduated, I had done a rotation out here,
my second rotation of my secondyear.
So third rotation of my secondyear.
So it was pretty early on.
I pushed to go back out west,which back then, based on what
was open, now I hear my age,back then, um out west, I was
looking at Texas, uh, NewMexico, Missouri, um, because
(25:59):
Colorado had just opened, um,but they were only hiring
practice, like experienced AAs.
And that was about as far westas I could go.
And because I had lived inCalifornia and I loved the
lifestyle and I love theoutdoors, the accessibility, I
love going skiing, I just wantedto be further out west.
So I did rotations and basicallyI had done one in St.
(26:21):
Louis at Mercy.
I was going to rotate in Houstonand I had taken my rotation
here.
And I, from being out here, themoment I was at the hospital, it
just felt like the right fit.
It felt like someplace I couldbe myself.
I could be the best version ofmyself I could be, I think was
the best answer.
And I liked the fact it was auniversity hospital.
I liked they prided themselveson academics, on open-mindedness
(26:45):
of trying different things, alot of different types of
anesthetics.
Like I felt like I could grow asa provider.
And it was that culture becauseI wanted to work at a hospital
where I didn't have to take alot of extra call.
I hate to say the wordswork-life balance, but I could
work a 40-hour a week job withlike almost a shift schedule.
But there was certain like I'dhave to work some holidays, I'd
(27:07):
have to work some other stuff,but I like that balance and the
mentally stimulating part of it.
But I really fell in love withthe group here because the
people seemed very nice.
They were actually going intowork in the morning, they
weren't bitter and just that wasmy big thing.
It's not every day is gonna begood, but you want to go into
work and like have people thatare like okay to be there, they
(27:28):
actually enjoy being where theyare.
And you could just tell that itwas a good group of people.
They had a they enjoyed theirlife outside, they also enjoyed
being at work, but you learned alot.
There was a lot of autonomyhere, and there was just it was
nice people, it reminded me ofthe Midwest, but I love the
outwest adventures.
It kind of I the line I alwayssay is New Mexico is a very
(27:49):
interesting place if you'rebraver brave enough to find out
who you really are, because itreally does allow you to be that
person.
SPEAKER_00 (27:56):
Hmm.
I've heard so many good thingsabout New Mexico.
I am like intrigued.
Um, one of my other friends isdoing some locums out there, and
she's just like, it's magical.
Like it's a mystical, magical,wonderful place.
SPEAKER_01 (28:09):
There's uh, I will say up in you were saying the
mystical part of it.
So up in Taos, I did a ski week.
I did two ski weeks, but one ofthem when I was going through my
divorce up there, and goingeveryday skiing on that
mountain, there's a magic there.
There's a mysticism, and youjust feel this, you feel this
empowering kind of fun, butthere's also a lot of brainiac
(28:29):
because we have, you know, LosAlamos, you have Cindy Labs.
So you have this very heavyscience part, but New Mexico is
a state.
There's a lot of um undeveloped,so it's just it's a very cool,
it's a very unique place.
SPEAKER_00 (28:43):
There is, there's two ways we could go here.
I would love to hear more aboutNew Mexico developing as a CAA
state, and there has been a lotof battles that you guys have
had to fight, and you've been onthe ground floor of many of
those battles.
And then I would also, I knowaround this time you were
(29:05):
walking through a divorce, andthat was really impacting you.
So I'll let you choose which onedo you want to talk about first?
And we're gonna get to both.
SPEAKER_01 (29:15):
Well, I will say instead of going with the
survived, we'll do the thrive.
So I will go with the uh helpingto um helping to deal with the
2015 to 2023 uh shifts in theNew Mexico CAA culture is my
choice.
SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
Yes.
Okay.
Well, let's start there becausebasically when you got there,
there was this big clause calledthe Sunset Clause that was
passing and then also like beingrevised over those years you
just mentioned the 2015 to 2023.
Talk to us about yourinvolvement in the legislative
process, coming right out ofschool into a state that
(29:53):
basically needed you to get onthe ground floor and make a
difference.
Because I think that's manypracticing states.
Experience, especially in thisnew wave of all these states
opening.
So, like, how did that come tobe and and how did that feel?
SPEAKER_01 (30:07):
Absolutely.
And I think it is important fordifferent states to have their
story told.
So the new SAAs and CAs that arecoming about actually don't have
to redevelop things fromscratch.
Like we're here to help.
We've all gone through gonethrough our own experience.
So when I came out here to NewMexico, at first, honestly, I
didn't realize how drastic anddire it was because I I always
(30:31):
kind of like was taught youdonate, you get involved, but I
thought I was too young just inthe beginning to really start.
So when they had elected a boardin the beginning, 2014, I had
just been here a couple monthsand I was like, I'm not, I'm not
qualified, I shouldn't be doingit.
So I didn't join in the verybeginning.
And then right after that waswhen there was a push for the um
(30:55):
House Bill 54, I believe, yeah.
That was the bill that wentthrough and ended up getting
passed, but I wasn't on theboard, so I didn't have as much
of a platform and a voice tocontribute.
And some of the decisions werebeing made to get that bill
passed, which I give the peoplewho passed it credit, but there
were some compromises made thatenacted, for example, the Sunset
(31:19):
Clause, which was a bit of a hattrick because if another
legislative bill hadn't beenpassed in the next 10 years, the
opportunity that was granted byHouse Bill 54, which was to
practice only at the Class Acounties, which are five of the
larger cities.
So that was a compromise made tobasically have us respect the
rural areas and the practicingCRNAs, but it gave us an
(31:43):
opportunity.
But if anyone knows about theNew Mexico uh landscape, it is
very challenging to get alegislative endeavor passed.
So giving us 10 years of asunset for it was like, ha,
here's a chance.
Good luck if you good luck ifthis turns into anything.
And some of the people who werein the leadership positions
(32:05):
after that bill passed left ourstate.
And I don't know if they wereinvested long-term in the state.
It was just a short-term credit,but it made such an impression
on me, my first year out, beinglike, I wasn't on a board.
My voice didn't have a space.
I could, I spoke to people, Itried my best to ask questions,
but I kind of got, I'd say, shotdown, which that's what it is.
(32:27):
You know, they did what theythought was best, and I have to
believe it was in the bestintentions, but there were these
compromises and these questions,and there was a lot of
interesting things that I heardthat happened, but we were left
with this opportunity in 10years, but the people who were
part of passing it left.
So I saw this opportunity of Ifelt, I'd say maybe this is a
(32:50):
hierarchy story you see inmultiple places, is when I see
something that isn't being doneright, or in my opinion, or I if
I see a situation wheresomeone's too afraid to do
something, or if someone needshelp, I feel compelled to want
to step in and help and do.
And when I saw all of this, Ilove the group that I work for
(33:11):
here.
I I love the variety of cases Ido, the challenging complexity
of the comorbidities.
Like I was like, this is goingto be my home for a very long
time.
And I felt invested and I feltthat then qualified me to be
involved.
So in starting in 2017, I was analternate delegate.
I what I served as PR chair,then an alternate delegate, and
(33:32):
then now I'm treasurer.
So I kind of served in differentroles over the years.
And I was part of the group in2023 that passed SB35, which
basically removed the sunsetclause and bumped our ratios up
to be comparable to thenationwide average of four to
one from three to one.
And we're still had the class Bcounty restrictions, but it took
(33:54):
away that timeline.
SPEAKER_00 (33:56):
And I just want to really drive a point home.
I'm sure probably most of theCAAs in the state of New Mexico
did a little something here andthere for the bill.
But give us a sense of um, likewhen you were saying the board,
you were talking the about theNew Mexico Academy of
Anesthesiologist Assistance.
It's the state component societyof the Quad A, which is our
(34:17):
national academy.
And that's the group that was onthe ground in the state of New
Mexico, really fighting thefight to remove that sunset
clause and make real change withthe bill's wording so that
people who are working therecould stay working in the state.
Give us a sense of like there'sthis many CAAs in the state of
(34:38):
New Mexico, and this is how manyof us were working, you know, uh
hours and hours and hours everyweek to do that.
Because I just think that's Ijust think it goes to show it's
a few people oftentimes likeworking really hard.
And if we can expand ourthinking, thinking like, okay,
if it's not just a few people,what if it's half of the CAAs?
So I'm I'm talking too much, buttell me those numbers.
SPEAKER_01 (35:01):
I'm nodding because I am in agreement of you.
So yes, yes, and thank you forclarifying when I said the
board.
So our our NMAA board, becausewe like saying that we all work
together, trying to think.
So maybe myself, five, six,seven, eight.
Um, so less than 10 were thewere the people who that's why I
say we had our main board andthen we had a couple people who
(35:22):
were very helpful to us.
But I'd say less than 10 ofpeople who were really making
the day-to-day efforts.
Yes.
And as far as the number of AAsthat are in our state, I'd say
roughly 70, maybe.
Okay.
But you had this small fractionwho was trying to be as strong
for this larger faction.
(35:43):
And I think it's a David versusGoliath uphill fight because
when we are trying to pass alegislative endeavor, you have
us, you have the New MexicoSociety of Anesthesiologists,
and then you also have the CRNAcomponent of the anesthesia
group in our state.
So the legislative body islooking at all three of us as
(36:06):
representing our professionwithin anesthesia to the
legislature.
So when they're looking at it,it's it's hard to make some of
the groups comparable in size.
And we try our best, and ittakes a lot of follow-through.
A lot of a lot of the biggestparts are just calling a
legislator up and callingtalking to them on the phone, or
(36:29):
just going to their office andsending them a letter, or just
making them yourself veryavailable.
That was the change that we sawwas when we would look at where
all of us lived and have someonereach out to their legislator,
they were more willing to listento us.
When we went to not expectingthem to come to our events, we
went to a legislative town townhall and we just were available
(36:50):
and said hi and asked questions.
So when you put yourself outsideof your little box and you're
more involved in the community,uh makes a big difference from a
legislative perspective.
SPEAKER_00 (37:02):
So valuable for so many people to hear on different
levels of their own legislativeefforts.
Just the fact that 10 people outof the 80 people in your state
basically passed a huge bill andmade all this change that's
gonna affect CAAs forever forthe rest of time in that state,
you know?
And there's so many more peoplenow who are becoming CAAs that
(37:24):
if we have this growing ability,if we're not scared, if it
doesn't seem completely outsidethe box to go speak to your
legislator, because in AAschool, you've been exposed to
it as part of what it means tobe an AA.
Think of what we could do.
Like I just think that's reallyinspiring and super cool that um
the UNMAA program is doing that.
(37:46):
So kudos to you guys.
Okay, let's shift gears a littlebit because I could talk about
that for a very long time.
And actually, I will link in theshow notes now that I'm thinking
about it, the episode I did twoseasons ago with Lindsay Diaz
when that bill was just passing,so that you guys can go back and
listen.
We explained the legislativeprocess there, which that
(38:07):
conversation with Lindsay wasreally me learning in real time,
the state legislative process.
So this is not something thateveryone's gonna um, you know,
if you don't know this, if youdon't know this language, if
this is all new to you, you'renot alone.
And there's still time to learnand to make a difference um in
whatever way you're wanting.
So, okay, when we were speakingin your discovery call, um,
(38:28):
which are the calls we do tokind of uh for me to get to know
you and sort of set up thestoryboard of sharing your
experiences as CAA, you saidthis phrase um that you really
felt like you walked through thefire of life and kind of came
out the other side.
And I'm just curious, um, mesaying that back to you, like
(38:49):
what resonates about it and whatexperiences really stick out
when I say um when and how haveyou walked through the fire?
SPEAKER_01 (38:57):
Yeah, you can see me nodding and I'm remembering it's
like, oh, yeah, I want to.
So it I'd say it's a it's a goodphrase to describe me because I
am definitely a headstrong,stubborn individual where a lot
of times I have to find stuffout my own way, my own accord,
and come to my own resolution.
That's part of that askingquestions bit.
(39:19):
Um, but it has created a lifewhere I think I make things a
little harder at times because Iam a perfectionist.
I do try different things.
That's another thing my momtaught me like be willing to try
life, experience life.
Like you're gonna learn morewhen you when things don't work
out than when things work out.
Um, they always say a CV of allyour failures is almost as
interesting as a CV of all yoursuccesses.
(39:41):
So I've never I've never beenafraid to try different things,
but by doing that, sometimesI've walked down, like I keep
quoting Dr.
Seuss books, but you know, yousometimes walk down, you know,
those dark roads that youshouldn't be, but I'm curious.
I want to figure it out.
And so it's led me to kind of,I'd say, walk through the fire
and some of the hard times.
And we've kind of talked aboutmy um my divorce and how that
(40:05):
greatly shaped me.
I think AA school was somethingthat opened up my eyes for
independence and personal choiceand owning my own voice.
It made me become stronger, butit made me outgrow my marriage.
And looking at that as if it wasa failure instead of just an
experience was very hard on me.
(40:26):
But looking at it, I had marriedsomeone who was 24 years older
than me.
And looking back, we were justthe two different places in
life.
I met them when I was 22 yearsold, and I am a completely
different person now at 40.
So it was part of my growingphases.
But by doing that, I was I neversettled for anything.
(40:48):
I always was taught to kind ofgo out and search the world,
find the world.
That's how I've been in my lifeadventures to go from
engineering to finding out thatwasn't the right fit for me.
But did I just accept it andsay, well, I'm just gonna be an
engineer for the rest of mylife?
Because that's, you know, that'swhat I was trained to do.
I was like, no, I want to behappy.
I want to find my happiness.
(41:08):
But walking through the fire ishaving an engineering degree,
but still working a menial jobas I was transitioning.
Um, it wasn't too fun, I'd say,making sandwiches when I had a
bachelor's degree.
But you know what?
I did it and I was willing to doit because I knew what I was
working towards.
So I think I never really tookthe cush side.
(41:28):
I walked through the fire byalways wanting to not really
make the harder decision, butmake the one that's going to
make me grow more eventually.
But it could be hard in theshort term.
So it was kind of like gettinginto AA school.
But then when I graduated, Icame, I moved out to New Mexico,
but that's when my marriage wasnot doing too well.
(41:49):
And we ended up gettingseparated.
And it was ironically when thathappened, I grew so much as a
person because being an AA, Ihad found that voice to be
financially independent, to takecare of myself.
But also, I going through adivorce is very hard.
You you kind of hang out withsome people that are not the
(42:09):
best people, that are not infriendships for the right
intentions.
And I was around some peoplethat were not good influences.
Like we said before, is now Iwant to be around people that
inspire me and make me a betterversion of myself.
Versus at some point I was withpeople because I didn't have as
high a standards for myself.
Cause when you're going througha divorce, you just it's it's a
(42:29):
very challenging thing.
Kind of like you feel like it'sa death, like you're mourning
the death of that person who youwere, who you're growing into.
And I ended up seeing some ofthe, I'd say, health struggles
that some of my patients dealtwith.
Um, for instance, here in NewMexico, we have a very high
patient population for chronicpain.
Um, substance use disorder wasactually a very big issue.
(42:53):
So a lot of my learning isbecause I see people around me
or I grapple with trying tounderstand things.
So I kind of go through the firebecause I make things harder,
but it's because I want to, inthe end, come out a stronger
person.
But sometimes choosing the roadthat's not the easy path, you
learn more about yourself as yougo through the path.
(43:13):
I could have just been in an AAand not have gotten involved
with any of the legislativestuff.
I could have not been theinaugural chief and done that
for two years to lay thefoundation for that, because
being middle management isrough.
It's rough.
You kind of deal with pushbackfrom people who are years beyond
you or new people.
Like, but I'm willing to, if Iknow the long-term end goal of
(43:35):
what I'm going towards is worthit, is meaningful, I'm able to
deal with the short-termturmoil.
So sorry for the longexplanation, but I love it.
Going through the fire is reallyit's being willing to take the
less waffle, darker, maybeharder path, but knowing my
investment is worth it in thelong haul.
SPEAKER_00 (43:55):
Mm-hmm.
Do you feel like you're on theother side of that fire now?
Like, does this feel like a moresettled time, or you're kind of
fully expecting that there'sgonna be something else that
you're called to do?
Um, or was the book that?
SPEAKER_01 (44:10):
You know, I never know what the future holds.
Um, but I will say kind of thepast year and overcoming the
loss of my mom last summer verysuddenly from cancer, and doing
curriculum building this pastyear and getting pregnant again,
which was a dream because Inever thought I'd have a second
(44:31):
child.
There's been so many things thispast year that has shaped me as
a person and made me aware thatI'm in a good, healthy, stable
spot.
I am very happy, my husband andI are very happy together.
We're having another son, we'rebuilding an extension in the
house.
Even though I've lost my mom,I'm so grateful for the life I
have.
(44:51):
And professionally, I've beenable to accomplish so many
things as far as helping tobuild a program and write the
book that was from my heart tomy mom.
Like, I don't, I feel much moresettled in a piece.
So it's kind of like I I rightnow don't have a fire to fight,
but because I have overcome theones that the hand that was
dealt to me.
(45:12):
I've kind of risen to theoccasion because I was taught
perseverance.
But do I know what fire is goingto be in the road ahead of me?
I have no idea.
Um but I do know for my twosons, it is very important to me
to leave a legacy for them thatthey they have the gut, they
have the you know, the moxie.
Um of like I want my son to tonot to understand that you
(45:37):
always have to stand up foryourself and you have to be a
strong man by understandingthings can always go right, but
it's kind of having that balanceof still having gusto to show
them, which that's why I keeplaughing.
Like, I might go back to schoolin you know 10 years, you know.
But I do I know it's gonna behappening around me?
No.
Do I, you know, but I'm always,I think, willing to ask the
(45:58):
question, willing to saysomething if it's not an easy
topic, but I'm willing to saysomething if I know it's the
right thing to do, to be thattrio blazer, to be that that
person that's gonna pushsomething.
SPEAKER_00 (46:11):
And you feel like you have that resilience, that
fortitude.
What was your mom's name?
What is your mom's name?
Nancy.
Nancy, from Nancy.
Like, do you feel like that'sreally from her?
The idea that um I'm I invite achallenge and I know I can
handle it, and I know I'm gonnaum be the person to stand up and
say, like, no, I can tacklethat.
SPEAKER_01 (46:32):
I would say a huge portion of who the person that I
the person that I am today isbecause of my mom.
Yeah.
She was a very, very specialperson.
And I know everyone says that,but she would walk in a room and
she would make everyone smile,but she would make everyone a
better person.
So she graduated with herbachelor's and her master's in
(46:53):
physics from Miami University inOhio, because we're Ohio people.
But she was the second woman toget her uh master's in physics
degree, and this was in the late60s, early 70s.
Early 70s, yeah, because she wasborn in 51.
My mom was the one that hadtaught me the tenacity, but just
taught me the love of life, andjust the combination of those
(47:14):
two is it's a beautiful thing.
Because she taught me how topersevere, how if things don't
go right.
Um, I know the one story thatalways goes back to um after her
brother, my uncle, was very,very dear to us.
And after he passed awaysuddenly, kind of like my mom,
my mom at first had a hard time,but then she's just like, well,
(47:37):
we just have to move forwardbecause that's who we are as
people, and that's what he wouldwant me to do.
And she just has this thisbrilliance about she, my mom
would like my mom would go fromtrading stocks to baking a cake.
She just was this bit of arenaissance woman that I always
felt like I was trying to liveup to be.
Except I just realized thebeauty wasn't just being around
(47:58):
her, just being with her.
And she taught me so much aboutlife.
And I'm so beyond grateful thatI had her.
And that's why with the book andwriting that, she's the one that
when I was building a curriculumand I'm like, I don't know what
to do.
And she's like, Well, when I wasteaching physics, she's like,
and she always had something tosay and some story.
(48:20):
And she was like, Kate, she'slike, You can do it.
And she's like, I'm just gonna,what am I memorized?
She's like, I'm just gonna sithere with you.
You can do it.
I know you can.
SPEAKER_00 (48:29):
Oh my gosh, Nancy.
So the right thing to say there.
SPEAKER_01 (48:32):
She taught me just how so much in life, and it's
just when something's that good,you just want more of it.
Yeah, and I know that, and I waslooking through all your
questions, like I know she wouldlook at me if I could ask her
one thing, like, mom, iseverything okay?
And she'd be like, Yeah.
She's like, I'm with your uncle,and we're watching over you.
And don't she's like, Don't cryabout me.
(48:53):
She's like, You take all thelove that you have for me, and
you love your boys, you loveyour family, and you just move
forward.
And I'm just I'm trying the bestI can to just make her proud and
move forward.
SPEAKER_00 (49:05):
Yeah.
Well, you're doing an amazingjob.
I'm super, super proud of you.
Yeah.
Well, let's honor Nancy a littlebit more while you share about
your first children's book.
SPEAKER_01 (49:18):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (49:18):
Called Anesthesia Dreamland.
Hold it up so we can see andtell us how this book came to
be.
SPEAKER_01 (49:25):
So you can kind of see the title.
You can see Night Night SweetChild Safe Blast Off to
Anesthesia Dreamland.
And you can see she has herlittle A superhero outfit on.
I'd say in my dedication, it'sso the rubies in my life.
So I have my mom and my son.
You can kind of see it's a bitof a heart there.
There he's flying.
(49:45):
So the book came about from fromenjoying teaching anesthesia,
enjoying pure education.
And when you have a child andyou read them a book, it is just
their eyes are open and theyjust look at the pictures.
And when I when I read throughall of this, um, and I even made
like a little poem in the frontpage.
(50:06):
So anesthesia, what's yourfreesia?
You cause me amnesia.
Um, my rocket ship ride, you aremy safe guide to dreamland and
back with pride.
And I just the the literary itit was cathartic for me to write
because of what my mom and Italked about.
And that was what in the end,when I was when I was spending
(50:28):
time with her, you know, we talkabout plans and we were talking
about what I want to do.
And when I talked about writinga book, it was something that I
had I had already created astory in my head, I'd want to
say a year before that.
Um, because I had thought aboutit, I had read to my son, and
then when she passed lastsummer, I was like, oh, I'm I'm
(50:48):
I'm gonna do this.
I promised her this is one ofthe things that I'm gonna do.
And then I the beauty, thebeautiful thing was I got
pregnant with my son thebeginning of December, and I
truly believe it was a gift formy mom from beyond.
And when I had that gift, I waslike, okay, I have to I have to
write that book down.
(51:08):
So I I think I wrote it downwithin like two weeks, but it
basically is going through likean inhalational induction for a
child and how they go to likeanesthesia dreamland, but it
kind of goes through the pre-op,um, inter-op pacu, so the
perioperative environment.
And some of the stories that Ido are uh part of it.
So, like for example, you cansee the like the bag, the green
(51:32):
reservoir bag here.
Uh huh.
Um, that is what I draw on thebag to kind of help calm a child
so they're blowing a balloon up.
So a lot of the sayings in hereum are totally what I do.
And even you can kind of see myanesthesia machine now that I
teach engineering.
So I was very specific thateverything had to look medically
accurate.
(51:53):
So when a child came in, theysaid, Oh, a mask, oh, I see
this, I know what this is.
Oh, you're here to help me.
So you're giving them thiswonderful story that they can
have self-empowerment, courage,bravery.
Um, but learn a little somethingand getting writing it out, like
I honestly was so cathartic.
Like I said, was everything thathappened with my mom?
(52:16):
It was just like I was meant todo this.
Like it just it just cametogether so quickly.
So it's and it's been wonderfulthe feedback of people even just
saying, like, oh, my child likedit, or it made them, you know,
ask a question or feel morecomfortable.
And it's it's something that Iwant to do as kind of a passion
project for me, but also myentrepreneurial spirit a little
(52:38):
bit that I like showing that Ican do things outside of
directly affiliated with beingin the operating room.
I think it's good to show ourversatility as practitioners and
as people.
SPEAKER_00 (52:48):
Absolutely.
Uh well, I'm just really, I'mreally grateful that I get to
hold you up, Kate, as what it isand what it means to be a CAA.
And I know people are going towant to reach out to you, buy
the book.
So tell us all the ways, thebest ways to find the book and
to reach out to you.
SPEAKER_01 (53:07):
I forgot that part of it.
So the biggest part is, right?
Um, so this is the actualpaperback version.
So nice big copy.
You can read it, you canactually hold.
I'm old-fashioned, I like books.
Um, but on both Amazon andBarnes and Noble, there is a
paperback.
So you can do this.
You can also do an ebook if thatis something you would like, and
(53:28):
an audiobook.
So I did have, so the publishingcompany helped set me up with a
very good uh narrator, and Ilove her voice.
It's very sing-song-y, it's verychildlike.
Um, but there is also anaudiobook out there, and you can
find links to a lot of thisthrough the website that I
created, which is CAA HyphenAnesthesia Dreamland.
(53:50):
As you can see, there might bemore, there might be a series.
So we're doing safe, safe, blastoff to anesthesia dreamland.
There might be something maybewith an IV induction, or I, you
know, my mind just keeps going.
But yeah, so CAA hyphenanesthesia dreamland.
And then I also have a page onFacebook, Instagram, LinkedIn.
So I try and make myselfavailable because I really do
(54:11):
want to be a resource for otherpeople if they have questions on
things.
SPEAKER_00 (54:14):
I am sure there is someone listening who has a book
inside of them.
Um so I'm just really gratefulfor you sharing your story.
And are you ready for yourone-minute rapid fire, a true
rapid fire?
SPEAKER_01 (54:26):
You know, I take things as they come.
That's my life learning, isdon't estimate, just take it as
it comes.
SPEAKER_00 (54:35):
Thanks for listening to Awakened Anesthetist.
If this episode resonated withyou, share it with a CAA friend,
an AA student in your life, or aperspective, and let them know
why you loved it.
It's the most important thingyou can do to support this
podcast and its mission.
You can always find more ways toconnect with me and this CAA
(54:57):
community atawakenedanesthetist.com,
including an invitation to joinseason five Mindful Connections.
These are free virtualgatherings open to anyone in our
Awakened Anesthetist community.
And while you're scrolling thewebsite, check out my trusted
CAA partners who make thispodcast possible with a special
(55:19):
thank you to my season fivesponsor, Harmony and Asegia
staffing.
Talk soon.
I'm honored to introduce our season five
(00:02):
flagship sponsor, HarmonyAnesthesia Staffing, a locums
company founded by CAAs and forCAAs.
Like this podcast, Harmony isrooted in the belief that our
work and our lives are mostfulfilling when they align with
our values.
Harmony exists to help CAAsshape careers that truly support
(00:25):
the life you want to live.
A life by design, not default.
Throughout season five, you'llget to know Harmony more deeply,
their origin story, theirgrowth, the CAAs behind the
name, and what it's really liketo work with them.
I think you'll find their visionand mission resonate with the
same themes we explore here onAwakened Anesthetist and in this
(00:47):
process series.
And knowing that, let's stepinto this expansive process
episode.
Welcome to the AwakenedAnesthetist Podcast, the first
podcast to highlight the CAAexperience.
I'm your host, Mary Jean, andI've been a certified
(01:09):
anesthesiologist assistant forclose to two decades.
Throughout my journey andstruggles, I've searched for
guidance that includes my uniqueperspective as a CAA.
At one of my lowest points, Idecided to turn my passion for
storytelling and my belief thatthe CAA profession is uniquely
able to create a life by designinto a podcast.
(01:32):
If you are a practicing CAA,current AA student, or someone
who hopes to be one, I encourageyou to stick around and
experience the power of being ina community filled with voices
who sound like yours, sharingexperiences you never believed
possible.
I know you will find yourselfhere at the Awakened Anesthetist
(01:53):
Podcast.
Welcome in.
Hello to all my fellow CAAs, AAstudents, and those dreaming of
becoming one.
I'm your host, Mary Jean, andthis is Awakened Anesthetist
Season 5.
Welcome to our process interviewseries where we go behind the
title of CertifiedAnesthesiologist Assistant to
(02:14):
discover the truth of what ittakes to build a life with
meaning and integrity as a CAA.
These episodes expand ourunderstanding of what a CAA can
be and do, and they move uscloser to living by design, not
by default.
Sometimes a guest finds thispodcast at just the right
(02:34):
moment, and sometimes it takes acouple years.
And now I know without a doubtthat Kate's story is meant to be
shared right here and right now.
I had met Kate two quad days agoin Orlando, Florida, and we
bonded over our sharedout-of-the-OR interests, and I
wrote down her name as apotential podcast guest then.
(02:56):
And then life happened.
So when we reconnected justbefore Quad A 2025, and she
mentioned she was on the vergeof releasing her first
children's book, I knew this wasthe right time to bring her on.
Kate is a CAA, a curriculumbuilder, a lifelong learner, and
someone who has turned her griefinto purpose.
She's the assistant didacticprogram director at the
(03:18):
University of New Mexico's MSAprogram and a practicing CAA who
has helped shape the evolutionof AAs in the Southwest.
In this conversation, Kateshares what it means to walk
through the fire.
From divorce to advocacy to therecent loss of her mother, Kate
emerges more grounded, moreintentional, and more in love
(03:40):
with the power of education thanever before.
It is my honor to welcome KateNovens to the Awakened Anestis
podcast.
Okay.
Well, Miss Kate Novens, tell ushow a CAA, a practicing CAA,
gets their first children's bookon a New York Times billboard.
SPEAKER_01 (04:02):
Well, I thoroughly appreciate you highlighting my
book, which you can see in thebackground.
And it's definitely a labor oflove over the past year, almost
a love letter to my mom whotaught me the love of reading.
And I was very grateful for theopportunity because the book
company that I was working withcalled Digital Book Labs.
And they helped me with all thepublishing, helped on the
(04:23):
illustrations to kind of bringmy images to life.
They were the ones that actuallyknew of the billboard and had a
connection based upon how mybook was worded and who they
thought would like it.
So they're the ones that helpedme compile the uh video trailer
and then get it on a billboard,which my husband's son and I had
a travel to see.
(04:44):
So I was very grateful for theopportunity to kind of see my
vision turn into reality and seeit up on a billboard, especially
with my son who saw it andrecognized my picture.
But very special memory.
SPEAKER_00 (04:57):
I love that.
Yeah, we'll share in the shownotes because you posted on
Instagram, which is how I knewthat.
I was like, wait a minute, she'son a billboard, folks.
I was like, what?
I need to know more.
And I knew we were having thisconversation.
So I I'm very interested as aCAA content creator and
entrepreneur.
I'm very tapped into those CAAswho are doing something
(05:18):
different outside of theoperating room.
And I love to hear sort of themessy middle of all of it.
Like being on a New York Timesbillboard is kind of the amazing
end and having your bookpublished.
But when did that first idea ofhaving your name on a children's
book come to be?
And like why writing, whychildren's books?
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Wonderful question.
So I actually spoke about itwith my mom.
Um, I say two people were theones that I share the idea with.
My mom and then uh CassieLangles, who was our program
director and one of my dearfriends.
And years ago, when I had myfirst son, I remember just read
learning the love of readingchildren's books.
Like I read a lot of Dr.
Seuss, so you can see thatwhimsy in how I speak,
(06:02):
especially the one, oh, theplaces you'll go.
And I just I love books, and itreally teaches me how to see.
Kind of my mom always said, whenyou read it in a book, you can
imagine it.
And what you imagine is so muchmore brilliant than in a movie.
So I always wanted to one daywrite a book, and then I think
having a son and justconversations off the cuff with
like people that I have aroundme that inspire me and motivate
(06:25):
me, I was like, I can do that.
I have a story to teach, andespecially around anesthesia,
because kids are so frightened,they don't know what to expect.
And I do more and more pediatricanesthesia here just over the
years, it's found me.
And if a child, and this is kindof the message that I can
empower a child througheducation so they understand,
but also not making them asafraid of healthcare workers and
(06:48):
the procedure.
So just kind of, I'd say amyriad of experiences, and I
definitely like being atrailblazer and thinking outside
of the box.
So when I saw an open in openingin the market and something that
I don't think a CAA has writtena book, and I was like, hey, I
can I I'll be the one to dothat.
Um I like being given achallenge, and I think it really
(07:10):
pushed me to want to do thatbecause it found me.
And when you do something thatis authentic and that, I'd say
that entrepreneurial spirit thatI have now, especially with my
everything my mom taught me andher not being here, it's a good
gusto and a good push to want tofinally do something and put it
to kind of put pen to paper andwrite down something you had
been thinking of.
SPEAKER_00 (07:31):
I love everything you just said.
I wanted to highlight a coupleof things for people who are
listening and maybe have theirown little seedling of an idea
or hey, this inkling keeps, youknow, niggling at me.
And maybe one day is that youhad said you let people who
believe in you sort of speakinto you and tell you that it's
possible and that you should,you know, pursue this dream like
(07:54):
you can do it, and being aroundpeople who have also done their
own big thing, like all of thatchanges your mindset to think,
okay, well, if they can do it, Ican do it.
That's one of the main messagesof this podcast is like, here's
Kate Novens, who's written achildren's book.
Do you have something that youwant to do?
Like you can do this too.
And then I just love hearingthat it's not something that
(08:15):
happens overnight.
Like these are things that wesee on Instagram, you know, in
the 11th hour, but you've beenthinking about and building
towards and working towardslittle by little.
So let's get into the little bylittle, like before you were
even a CAA.
Take us back to your childhood,your upbringing, maybe who you
(08:36):
were as a kid or experiencesthat you feel like really shaped
you so we can kind of get toknow you a little better.
SPEAKER_01 (08:41):
Absolutely.
So I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio,um, very suburbia, Midwest.
But I grew up with two parentswho were very um, very
headstrong, prided themselves ineducation, but prided themselves
on teaching me kind of thelearning lessons of life.
Kind of what do you really needto know to have EQ, IQ, but
(09:02):
really how to take advantage oflife.
So I remember being a totaltomboy growing up.
I played a lot of sports.
Um, I played as much as all theguys could play.
And my mom definitely taught methat tenacity to kind of want to
keep up but be exploring andadventurous.
So a lot of the memories wereoutside, kind of my girlfriend
and I would collect rocks in ourbackyard and put them in purses,
(09:25):
like very much a tomboyexperience.
Um, but I was an only child, soI grew up kind of quicker.
Um, but my parents wanted toteach me how to live life.
So we would go out to dinner,learn the love of math from
them.
That was kind of the languagethat we spoke.
Um, in fact, if I didn't doengineering, I probably would
have done math.
So they taught me the love ofnumbers, love of science, but
(09:47):
love of asking questions.
So a lot of my upbringing wasbeing empowered to ask
questions, step outside thenormal box, kind of create my
own life.
And that's why I remember theDr.
Seuss book, All the PlacesYou'll Go.
My mom never wanted me to bereliant.
She wanted me to be empowered tobe my own person, but really
(10:08):
enjoy life.
She taught me that if you wantto go, you know, to Napa and go
wine tasting, we'll we'll go oneday.
So we did a girl's trip to Napaand went wine tasting.
We did a mom and daughter tripto South Africa.
We went and explored.
She saw her baby elephant and Isaw my flying shark.
So she taught me kind of love ofenjoying your life and really
living your life.
(10:28):
But it's it's wonderful lessonsthat I have for the rest of my
life.
SPEAKER_00 (10:33):
She sounds amazing.
I was really lucky for the bythe way I have.
Wow.
And you had said briefly thatyou would have gone into math,
if not engineering, which thenum lets us know that you lived
in one of the hubs for CAAs andyou did not go to CAA school
right out of undergrad.
(10:54):
So give us that sequence.
When did you first find outabout the CA profession?
When did you first hear aboutit?
SPEAKER_01 (10:59):
Absolutely.
So my background was my parentswere both engineers.
I did naval architecture, marineengineering, and I moved uh from
Michigan at graduation.
I moved to California.
So worked in a shipyard, didhave had a very different
trajectory.
Even though I grew up inCleveland, I had never heard of
the program, had never heard ofthe profession.
And not until I ended up goingback to Cleveland after I lived
(11:23):
in um Southern California for alittle bit, um, did my post back
pre-med stuff there, becausethat's when I went into being
like, okay, medicine is theright path.
But I think my parents were alittle bit worried about the
long path to get there.
So I was following the familyfootsteps of engineering, which
an engineering degree, you canopen up many doors with that.
And that was one thing my momtaught me.
(11:43):
So once I had my degree, workeda little bit, it wasn't the
right fit, I knew medicine wasalways my calling.
And what ended up happening wasI had volunteered in uh Santa
Monica in the like a volunteerinternship program you would
apply for.
But I worked in various parts ofthe hospital and found that I
loved anesthesia.
When I observed in OBanesthesiologist, it was so
(12:07):
technical, which was engineeringand the numbers and all the
calculations, but I liked the,you know, you never knew what
was going to happen, thecontinual challenge, the
personal kind of pull thathelped me.
It was all of the thingscombined.
So I was like, well, I guess Igotta go to med school.
I wish I would have knownearlier.
But in that moment, I moved backto Cleveland.
(12:27):
And when we moved back toCleveland, my ex-husband and
myself at the time, it was nicebecause we're able to spend time
with my parents.
But that's when I realized thatthe CAA profession existed.
After working some, I'd sayregular jobs.
I worked as a uh EMT.
Uh I drove ambulances, I workedas a quality assurance auditor
(12:47):
of a Benvenue uh pharmaceuticalfilling line that actually used
to make propofol.
And when I was there, I madeVecuronium.
So I did different things.
I mean, I worked at a sandwichshop.
I did all of this as I wastrying to apply to medical
school.
So I was kind of working my wayup.
And then how I found out aboutthe CAA profession was one night
(13:07):
I was taking an MCAT reviewclass and I drove all the way
into the city.
Ironically, it was at CACE.
So I was actually taking an MCATclass at CACE, which is where I
ended up going to school, andclass was canceled, and I was
rewarded by another girl and Ijust showed up and we said,
We're here, let's grab a cup ofcoffee.
And she told me about the MSAprogram.
(13:27):
No, and she and I was looking atanesthesia, I was from
Cleveland, I had moved all thesethings, had a lot of yes, and
then when she told me about it,part part of me honestly was
like, that sounds too good to betrue.
I didn't really believe it atfirst.
And I went home, I slowly did alittle bit more research, you
know, I was taught to askquestions, and when I looked
(13:48):
into it more and more, I waslike, this sounds too good to be
true.
So I scheduled a shadowing dayand I shadowed actually uh
Michael Patrick, who I remembergoing on to be one of my
instructors, one of my favoriteinstructors at Case.
And I shadowed him um ironicallyup in the pediatric ORs.
And the moment I saw what he didduring the day, because that was
(14:10):
the thing in engineering, I lovethe learning, I love all the
stuff.
But when I got out in the field,it just didn't fit.
And I wish I would have knownthat sooner.
So if I saw the day-to-day,that's why when I was helping us
set up the advisement servicesof our program, I really
highlight shadowing becausethat's when you know if it's
this is gonna work or this isnot.
Yes, it's not right foreveryone.
(14:31):
And the moment I saw, I waslike, I can do this.
I fell instantly in love withit.
And at that moment, it was like,okay, this was all like you
said, meant to be up until thispoint.
I just had to open my eyes andbe a little bit more cognizant
of what was happening around me.
SPEAKER_00 (14:47):
I am gonna be that person who asked you how old you
were when this all happened,because I think there's a lot of
pre-AAs out there who are comingnow from a different profession.
And so would you mind sharinghow old you were when you got
into AA school?
SPEAKER_01 (15:01):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I was born in 84 and Istarted in 2012.
Got it.
We'll let people do the math.
There you go.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
So uh I was born in 84 as well.
Awaken and S's community.
I'm jumping in here real quickto share something that hits
really close to home.
Our season five sponsor, HarmonyAnesthesia Staffing.
When Harmony started, it wasjust a few CAAs who wanted what
(15:30):
most of us want.
Certainly I wanted more balance,more respect, and more say in
how we work.
What's so cool is how they'vegrown, not by chasing contracts
or scaling quickly, but byearning trust over time.
Almost all of Harmony's growthhas come through word of mouth
from other CIAs who've had greatexperiences working with them.
(15:54):
And honestly, that says a lot.
It's proof that growth doesn'tmean losing your values.
That's something I'm reallyinspired by, is I'm building my
own mission-driven work in thisCAA space.
Harmony continues to beclinician-founded and
clinician-led with the same goalthey started with, to give CAAs
(16:16):
more opportunity, moreflexibility, and more
transparency in how we designour careers.
So if you're craving a littlemore control in your work life
and don't want to leave theprofession you love, Harmony
might be the right choice foryou.
You can grab a free 15-minuteconsultation call with one of
Harmony's founding CAAs throughthe link in the show notes.
(16:39):
It's an easy, no pressure way toexplore what's possible when
your work and your values areactually in harmony.
And now back to the episode.
So, okay, so you got into AAschool right away.
Did it take a couple times?
Did you know for sure I wantedto go to Cleveland MSA program?
SPEAKER_01 (17:01):
Great question.
So I was I was living inCleveland at the time.
It was nice because my parentswere in Cleveland.
So I was able to see them, spendtime with them, and I had jobs
there.
So I was able to at leastsustain myself for the time
being, but spend quality timewith my parents when I was in
California, I didn't have.
So I thought about primarilystaying a case and going to um
(17:25):
case Cleveland.
Um, but I will say my dad, mydad is a tough cookie.
He's like 6'5, 6'6, and Russian,and he he says little, but he
has high expectations.
But he the whole time was like,oh, you're not gonna get in a
case.
And he, I don't know if he wastrying to like give me realistic
expectations, but he grew up inCleveland and like going a case
even in Cleveland was like a bigdeal.
(17:46):
Yeah.
So he secretly, I think, wantedme to.
He just didn't want to get hishopes up.
So that's where I wanted tostay.
I had a good support system, butI applied um elsewhere.
So I applied to multipledifferent schools, and at the
time there wasn't as many asthere are now.
So I applied to UMKC.
I no, no, I didn't because theywere a different newer program.
I think Emory, South, Nova,Case, I think those were the
(18:11):
ones that I applied to based onwhat was open at the time.
And um, I got acceptancesmultiple places, but I got into
Case Cleveland on the firstround, and I was very grateful.
Um, and I was actually working,I remember ironically, at the
same job.
So that girl that told me aboutthe AA profession when we ran an
MCAT review class years later,we were both working at
(18:32):
Benvenue, which was apharmaceutical company.
She was in the microbiology lab.
I was in the quality assurancearea.
So we randomly ran into eachother and found out we were both
in the process of applying.
And I if I bless her heart, Ifelt so bad.
I think I got in and she didn't.
And I felt so bad.
(18:53):
I felt so bad because she toldme about the profession.
So I I hope she got in later onbecause I haven't seen her
since.
But it's um ironic how kind ofin life you have these weird
connections and how things justhappen.
So yeah, I was very grateful Iwas able to stay at Cleveland
and end up learning from MichaelPatrick, who I shadowed with.
(19:13):
And but yes, I have a caseCleveland grad.
SPEAKER_00 (19:16):
Okay.
And how was being a curiousquestion asker, how did that
serve you in AA school?
Was AA school like a breeze foryou?
Was it horrible and it was likesuper overwhelming?
Like, give us a little behindthe scenes.
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
Great question.
So when I was in AA school, itwas challenging.
I mean, it definitely changesyou as a person.
If you look at it not just fromthe science like the book
smarts, you look at it from thewhole taking care of a patient
and then learning about yourselfand going through grad school.
And it's a big process, it's abig transition.
(19:49):
And when I was in AA school,asking questions, I think helped
me sometimes because when I Iwould think of things from a
very critical thinking,problem-solving fashion.
I wasn't just a memorizationperson.
It had to make logical sense.
So for me, when I would learnsomething, I'd see it in clear,
it was like didactic,simulation, clinical, and it
(20:10):
just the constant flow madesense.
And when I saw something Ididn't understand, I'd ask why.
So it helped me sometimes, Ithink, absorb the amount of
knowledge that and it helpedkind of with these encoding kind
of these what if statements as Iwould kind of go through things.
Um, so on one side, veryhelpful.
(20:30):
On the opposite side, I will sayasking questions, sometimes too
many questions to be a little umglass ceiling, a little glass
ceiling-ish.
Because sometimes you may asktoo many questions.
You may get some more thingsthat shouldn't be asked about,
or some people don't, they'vebeen doing it this way for so
many years, they don't likerocking the boat.
(20:52):
So sometimes questions got me introuble.
So I'd say maybe 60% good, 40%questionable as a good ratio.
SPEAKER_00 (21:01):
You have to say more about how asking questions got
you in trouble because that issuch a nuance of medical
education um and and learning asan AA student live in the OR
with people, with CAAs who arenot necessarily trained to
educate other AAs, um, but it'sjust part of the medical
(21:23):
education system.
And as you said, sometimes youcan ask questions to maybe a
longtime CAA and they don'tactually, they've never put into
words in the last 20 years whythey do it that way.
And so it becomes this tensemoment of you almost like
testing people with questions.
And I'm only saying this becauseI am also a curious question
asker and have felt this.
(21:44):
And it is um what's the word?
I mean, it's like a catch 22.
Like it's just a really hard wayto learn.
So can you maybe give us anexample maybe from your
experience now as a preceptor orof like maybe most memorable in
school when asking a question,you know, was too much or went
over a line.
Super set.
SPEAKER_01 (22:05):
I will say now that we've been doing curriculum
building and I'm part of aprogram, I have had a lot more
edu training as an educator.
So what you're saying waslacking.
So I got my um postmaster'seducational certificate and
educational leadership from UNMin the College of Education.
So I took some classes on adultlearning, conflict management.
(22:27):
But more than that, we havetrainings within our MSA
program.
And I am very proud to be partof a program that our leadership
in Dr.
Fortner, Dr.
Langhol's, very much pridesthemselves on educating us on
how to be educators.
So we have workshops.
So for instance, I just went toa feedback workshop.
When you look at feedback, it'sthere's a way to create a safe
(22:51):
learning environment.
So I say all of this to set thestructure.
And when I as a student, I didnot understand that.
I was used to the you grid itout, like I was a female
engineer, like and I came fromyou just grid it out, you figure
it out.
So I came from more of the hardknocks, tough, tough love way of
having to fight it out.
But now that I'm in education, Ican see how beneficial it is to
(23:15):
create a safe environment andthen how you give feedback.
So you validate the person, youmake them feel heard.
There's a certain way tostructure feedback and not
squelch the students or thelearner's curiosity and question
asking, but you want to guide itin the right way.
Like I remember one time when Iwas in school, probably one of I
(23:37):
don't want to say, and I won'tsay any names, but when I was
with the preceptor, apparently Iasked too many questions that
they um they were a little rudeand abrupt to me.
Let's just say that.
Um blank.
Yeah.
So, but things like that happenand you know you move forward.
And it got me in too muchtrouble because I asked too many
questions.
And I think part of it isbecause as the preceptor, if
(24:00):
you're not empowered on how toteach, you feel like the
learner's questioning you.
You feel like they'requestioning your skills.
And yes, in hindsight, I see howpeople take it the wrong way.
They get very defensive, they umthere's more work on them to do
something that they'reuncomfortable doing, that they
already have their system intheir way.
SPEAKER_02 (24:20):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (24:20):
And now in education, it's so much more
about listening to the learnerbecause usually they have a
valid point, but it makes yougrow as a provider to become
able to explain something.
So we offer opportunities thatif you want to be comfortable
giving the education, it makesfor a better learning
environment for the student.
(24:41):
Because then the student knowsthat they're in a safe space.
The feedback is going to comefrom a good place.
It's not going to be aknee-jerk.
How dare you ask that?
It's going to be, okay, help meunderstand where you're coming
from so we can create a goodlearning environment for the
student.
Because the question can begreat.
It's just, it's knowing theright place, the right context,
(25:01):
the right person, and andfeeling okay to ask it.
SPEAKER_00 (25:05):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
You're gonna get me startedtalking about CAA Matters, which
I am going to um just ask youanother question so I don't get
talking about it.
Okay, you've mentioned a lotabout New Mexico.
You're uh practicing CAA in NewMexico, and New Mexico has
become a part of who you arefrom me knowing you and learning
(25:26):
about the culture of New Mexico.
So why don't you tell us how yougot from uh AA school in
Cleveland, Ohio to New Mexicowhen you graduated in 2014?
unknown (25:37):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (25:37):
So when I graduated, I had done a rotation out here,
my second rotation of my secondyear.
So third rotation of my secondyear.
So it was pretty early on.
I pushed to go back out west,which back then, based on what
was open, now I hear my age,back then, um out west, I was
looking at Texas, uh, NewMexico, Missouri, um, because
(25:59):
Colorado had just opened, um,but they were only hiring
practice, like experienced AAs.
And that was about as far westas I could go.
And because I had lived inCalifornia and I loved the
lifestyle and I love theoutdoors, the accessibility, I
love going skiing, I just wantedto be further out west.
So I did rotations and basicallyI had done one in St.
(26:21):
Louis at Mercy.
I was going to rotate in Houstonand I had taken my rotation
here.
And I, from being out here, themoment I was at the hospital, it
just felt like the right fit.
It felt like someplace I couldbe myself.
I could be the best version ofmyself I could be, I think was
the best answer.
And I liked the fact it was auniversity hospital.
I liked they prided themselveson academics, on open-mindedness
(26:45):
of trying different things, alot of different types of
anesthetics.
Like I felt like I could grow asa provider.
And it was that culture becauseI wanted to work at a hospital
where I didn't have to take alot of extra call.
I hate to say the wordswork-life balance, but I could
work a 40-hour a week job withlike almost a shift schedule.
But there was certain like I'dhave to work some holidays, I'd
(27:07):
have to work some other stuff,but I like that balance and the
mentally stimulating part of it.
But I really fell in love withthe group here because the
people seemed very nice.
They were actually going intowork in the morning, they
weren't bitter and just that wasmy big thing.
It's not every day is gonna begood, but you want to go into
work and like have people thatare like okay to be there, they
(27:28):
actually enjoy being where theyare.
And you could just tell that itwas a good group of people.
They had a they enjoyed theirlife outside, they also enjoyed
being at work, but you learned alot.
There was a lot of autonomyhere, and there was just it was
nice people, it reminded me ofthe Midwest, but I love the
outwest adventures.
It kind of I the line I alwayssay is New Mexico is a very
(27:49):
interesting place if you'rebraver brave enough to find out
who you really are, because itreally does allow you to be that
person.
SPEAKER_00 (27:56):
Hmm.
I've heard so many good thingsabout New Mexico.
I am like intrigued.
Um, one of my other friends isdoing some locums out there, and
she's just like, it's magical.
Like it's a mystical, magical,wonderful place.
SPEAKER_01 (28:09):
There's uh, I will say up in you were saying the
mystical part of it.
So up in Taos, I did a ski week.
I did two ski weeks, but one ofthem when I was going through my
divorce up there, and goingeveryday skiing on that
mountain, there's a magic there.
There's a mysticism, and youjust feel this, you feel this
empowering kind of fun, butthere's also a lot of brainiac
(28:29):
because we have, you know, LosAlamos, you have Cindy Labs.
So you have this very heavyscience part, but New Mexico is
a state.
There's a lot of um undeveloped,so it's just it's a very cool,
it's a very unique place.
SPEAKER_00 (28:43):
There is, there's two ways we could go here.
I would love to hear more aboutNew Mexico developing as a CAA
state, and there has been a lotof battles that you guys have
had to fight, and you've been onthe ground floor of many of
those battles.
And then I would also, I knowaround this time you were
(29:05):
walking through a divorce, andthat was really impacting you.
So I'll let you choose which onedo you want to talk about first?
And we're gonna get to both.
SPEAKER_01 (29:15):
Well, I will say instead of going with the
survived, we'll do the thrive.
So I will go with the uh helpingto um helping to deal with the
2015 to 2023 uh shifts in theNew Mexico CAA culture is my
choice.
SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
Yes.
Okay.
Well, let's start there becausebasically when you got there,
there was this big clause calledthe Sunset Clause that was
passing and then also like beingrevised over those years you
just mentioned the 2015 to 2023.
Talk to us about yourinvolvement in the legislative
process, coming right out ofschool into a state that
(29:53):
basically needed you to get onthe ground floor and make a
difference.
Because I think that's manypracticing states.
Experience, especially in thisnew wave of all these states
opening.
So, like, how did that come tobe and and how did that feel?
SPEAKER_01 (30:07):
Absolutely.
And I think it is important fordifferent states to have their
story told.
So the new SAAs and CAs that arecoming about actually don't have
to redevelop things fromscratch.
Like we're here to help.
We've all gone through gonethrough our own experience.
So when I came out here to NewMexico, at first, honestly, I
didn't realize how drastic anddire it was because I I always
(30:31):
kind of like was taught youdonate, you get involved, but I
thought I was too young just inthe beginning to really start.
So when they had elected a boardin the beginning, 2014, I had
just been here a couple monthsand I was like, I'm not, I'm not
qualified, I shouldn't be doingit.
So I didn't join in the verybeginning.
And then right after that waswhen there was a push for the um
(30:55):
House Bill 54, I believe, yeah.
That was the bill that wentthrough and ended up getting
passed, but I wasn't on theboard, so I didn't have as much
of a platform and a voice tocontribute.
And some of the decisions werebeing made to get that bill
passed, which I give the peoplewho passed it credit, but there
were some compromises made thatenacted, for example, the Sunset
(31:19):
Clause, which was a bit of a hattrick because if another
legislative bill hadn't beenpassed in the next 10 years, the
opportunity that was granted byHouse Bill 54, which was to
practice only at the Class Acounties, which are five of the
larger cities.
So that was a compromise made tobasically have us respect the
rural areas and the practicingCRNAs, but it gave us an
(31:43):
opportunity.
But if anyone knows about theNew Mexico uh landscape, it is
very challenging to get alegislative endeavor passed.
So giving us 10 years of asunset for it was like, ha,
here's a chance.
Good luck if you good luck ifthis turns into anything.
And some of the people who werein the leadership positions
(32:05):
after that bill passed left ourstate.
And I don't know if they wereinvested long-term in the state.
It was just a short-term credit,but it made such an impression
on me, my first year out, beinglike, I wasn't on a board.
My voice didn't have a space.
I could, I spoke to people, Itried my best to ask questions,
but I kind of got, I'd say, shotdown, which that's what it is.
(32:27):
You know, they did what theythought was best, and I have to
believe it was in the bestintentions, but there were these
compromises and these questions,and there was a lot of
interesting things that I heardthat happened, but we were left
with this opportunity in 10years, but the people who were
part of passing it left.
So I saw this opportunity of Ifelt, I'd say maybe this is a
(32:50):
hierarchy story you see inmultiple places, is when I see
something that isn't being doneright, or in my opinion, or I if
I see a situation wheresomeone's too afraid to do
something, or if someone needshelp, I feel compelled to want
to step in and help and do.
And when I saw all of this, Ilove the group that I work for
(33:11):
here.
I I love the variety of cases Ido, the challenging complexity
of the comorbidities.
Like I was like, this is goingto be my home for a very long
time.
And I felt invested and I feltthat then qualified me to be
involved.
So in starting in 2017, I was analternate delegate.
I what I served as PR chair,then an alternate delegate, and
(33:32):
then now I'm treasurer.
So I kind of served in differentroles over the years.
And I was part of the group in2023 that passed SB35, which
basically removed the sunsetclause and bumped our ratios up
to be comparable to thenationwide average of four to
one from three to one.
And we're still had the class Bcounty restrictions, but it took
(33:54):
away that timeline.
SPEAKER_00 (33:56):
And I just want to really drive a point home.
I'm sure probably most of theCAAs in the state of New Mexico
did a little something here andthere for the bill.
But give us a sense of um, likewhen you were saying the board,
you were talking the about theNew Mexico Academy of
Anesthesiologist Assistance.
It's the state component societyof the Quad A, which is our
(34:17):
national academy.
And that's the group that was onthe ground in the state of New
Mexico, really fighting thefight to remove that sunset
clause and make real change withthe bill's wording so that
people who are working therecould stay working in the state.
Give us a sense of like there'sthis many CAAs in the state of
(34:38):
New Mexico, and this is how manyof us were working, you know, uh
hours and hours and hours everyweek to do that.
Because I just think that's Ijust think it goes to show it's
a few people oftentimes likeworking really hard.
And if we can expand ourthinking, thinking like, okay,
if it's not just a few people,what if it's half of the CAAs?
So I'm I'm talking too much, buttell me those numbers.
SPEAKER_01 (35:01):
I'm nodding because I am in agreement of you.
So yes, yes, and thank you forclarifying when I said the
board.
So our our NMAA board, becausewe like saying that we all work
together, trying to think.
So maybe myself, five, six,seven, eight.
Um, so less than 10 were thewere the people who that's why I
say we had our main board andthen we had a couple people who
(35:22):
were very helpful to us.
But I'd say less than 10 ofpeople who were really making
the day-to-day efforts.
Yes.
And as far as the number of AAsthat are in our state, I'd say
roughly 70, maybe.
Okay.
But you had this small fractionwho was trying to be as strong
for this larger faction.
(35:43):
And I think it's a David versusGoliath uphill fight because
when we are trying to pass alegislative endeavor, you have
us, you have the New MexicoSociety of Anesthesiologists,
and then you also have the CRNAcomponent of the anesthesia
group in our state.
So the legislative body islooking at all three of us as
(36:06):
representing our professionwithin anesthesia to the
legislature.
So when they're looking at it,it's it's hard to make some of
the groups comparable in size.
And we try our best, and ittakes a lot of follow-through.
A lot of a lot of the biggestparts are just calling a
legislator up and callingtalking to them on the phone, or
(36:29):
just going to their office andsending them a letter, or just
making them yourself veryavailable.
That was the change that we sawwas when we would look at where
all of us lived and have someonereach out to their legislator,
they were more willing to listento us.
When we went to not expectingthem to come to our events, we
went to a legislative town townhall and we just were available
(36:50):
and said hi and asked questions.
So when you put yourself outsideof your little box and you're
more involved in the community,uh makes a big difference from a
legislative perspective.
SPEAKER_00 (37:02):
So valuable for so many people to hear on different
levels of their own legislativeefforts.
Just the fact that 10 people outof the 80 people in your state
basically passed a huge bill andmade all this change that's
gonna affect CAAs forever forthe rest of time in that state,
you know?
And there's so many more peoplenow who are becoming CAAs that
(37:24):
if we have this growing ability,if we're not scared, if it
doesn't seem completely outsidethe box to go speak to your
legislator, because in AAschool, you've been exposed to
it as part of what it means tobe an AA.
Think of what we could do.
Like I just think that's reallyinspiring and super cool that um
the UNMAA program is doing that.
(37:46):
So kudos to you guys.
Okay, let's shift gears a littlebit because I could talk about
that for a very long time.
And actually, I will link in theshow notes now that I'm thinking
about it, the episode I did twoseasons ago with Lindsay Diaz
when that bill was just passing,so that you guys can go back and
listen.
We explained the legislativeprocess there, which that
(38:07):
conversation with Lindsay wasreally me learning in real time,
the state legislative process.
So this is not something thateveryone's gonna um, you know,
if you don't know this, if youdon't know this language, if
this is all new to you, you'renot alone.
And there's still time to learnand to make a difference um in
whatever way you're wanting.
So, okay, when we were speakingin your discovery call, um,
(38:28):
which are the calls we do tokind of uh for me to get to know
you and sort of set up thestoryboard of sharing your
experiences as CAA, you saidthis phrase um that you really
felt like you walked through thefire of life and kind of came
out the other side.
And I'm just curious, um, mesaying that back to you, like
(38:49):
what resonates about it and whatexperiences really stick out
when I say um when and how haveyou walked through the fire?
SPEAKER_01 (38:57):
Yeah, you can see me nodding and I'm remembering it's
like, oh, yeah, I want to.
So it I'd say it's a it's a goodphrase to describe me because I
am definitely a headstrong,stubborn individual where a lot
of times I have to find stuffout my own way, my own accord,
and come to my own resolution.
That's part of that askingquestions bit.
(39:19):
Um, but it has created a lifewhere I think I make things a
little harder at times because Iam a perfectionist.
I do try different things.
That's another thing my momtaught me like be willing to try
life, experience life.
Like you're gonna learn morewhen you when things don't work
out than when things work out.
Um, they always say a CV of allyour failures is almost as
interesting as a CV of all yoursuccesses.
(39:41):
So I've never I've never beenafraid to try different things,
but by doing that, sometimesI've walked down, like I keep
quoting Dr.
Seuss books, but you know, yousometimes walk down, you know,
those dark roads that youshouldn't be, but I'm curious.
I want to figure it out.
And so it's led me to kind of,I'd say, walk through the fire
and some of the hard times.
And we've kind of talked aboutmy um my divorce and how that
(40:05):
greatly shaped me.
I think AA school was somethingthat opened up my eyes for
independence and personal choiceand owning my own voice.
It made me become stronger, butit made me outgrow my marriage.
And looking at that as if it wasa failure instead of just an
experience was very hard on me.
(40:26):
But looking at it, I had marriedsomeone who was 24 years older
than me.
And looking back, we were justthe two different places in
life.
I met them when I was 22 yearsold, and I am a completely
different person now at 40.
So it was part of my growingphases.
But by doing that, I was I neversettled for anything.
(40:48):
I always was taught to kind ofgo out and search the world,
find the world.
That's how I've been in my lifeadventures to go from
engineering to finding out thatwasn't the right fit for me.
But did I just accept it andsay, well, I'm just gonna be an
engineer for the rest of mylife?
Because that's, you know, that'swhat I was trained to do.
I was like, no, I want to behappy.
I want to find my happiness.
(41:08):
But walking through the fire ishaving an engineering degree,
but still working a menial jobas I was transitioning.
Um, it wasn't too fun, I'd say,making sandwiches when I had a
bachelor's degree.
But you know what?
I did it and I was willing to doit because I knew what I was
working towards.
So I think I never really tookthe cush side.
(41:28):
I walked through the fire byalways wanting to not really
make the harder decision, butmake the one that's going to
make me grow more eventually.
But it could be hard in theshort term.
So it was kind of like gettinginto AA school.
But then when I graduated, Icame, I moved out to New Mexico,
but that's when my marriage wasnot doing too well.
(41:49):
And we ended up gettingseparated.
And it was ironically when thathappened, I grew so much as a
person because being an AA, Ihad found that voice to be
financially independent, to takecare of myself.
But also, I going through adivorce is very hard.
You you kind of hang out withsome people that are not the
(42:09):
best people, that are not infriendships for the right
intentions.
And I was around some peoplethat were not good influences.
Like we said before, is now Iwant to be around people that
inspire me and make me a betterversion of myself.
Versus at some point I was withpeople because I didn't have as
high a standards for myself.
Cause when you're going througha divorce, you just it's it's a
(42:29):
very challenging thing.
Kind of like you feel like it'sa death, like you're mourning
the death of that person who youwere, who you're growing into.
And I ended up seeing some ofthe, I'd say, health struggles
that some of my patients dealtwith.
Um, for instance, here in NewMexico, we have a very high
patient population for chronicpain.
Um, substance use disorder wasactually a very big issue.
(42:53):
So a lot of my learning isbecause I see people around me
or I grapple with trying tounderstand things.
So I kind of go through the firebecause I make things harder,
but it's because I want to, inthe end, come out a stronger
person.
But sometimes choosing the roadthat's not the easy path, you
learn more about yourself as yougo through the path.
(43:13):
I could have just been in an AAand not have gotten involved
with any of the legislativestuff.
I could have not been theinaugural chief and done that
for two years to lay thefoundation for that, because
being middle management isrough.
It's rough.
You kind of deal with pushbackfrom people who are years beyond
you or new people.
Like, but I'm willing to, if Iknow the long-term end goal of
(43:35):
what I'm going towards is worthit, is meaningful, I'm able to
deal with the short-termturmoil.
So sorry for the longexplanation, but I love it.
Going through the fire is reallyit's being willing to take the
less waffle, darker, maybeharder path, but knowing my
investment is worth it in thelong haul.
SPEAKER_00 (43:55):
Mm-hmm.
Do you feel like you're on theother side of that fire now?
Like, does this feel like a moresettled time, or you're kind of
fully expecting that there'sgonna be something else that
you're called to do?
Um, or was the book that?
SPEAKER_01 (44:10):
You know, I never know what the future holds.
Um, but I will say kind of thepast year and overcoming the
loss of my mom last summer verysuddenly from cancer, and doing
curriculum building this pastyear and getting pregnant again,
which was a dream because Inever thought I'd have a second
(44:31):
child.
There's been so many things thispast year that has shaped me as
a person and made me aware thatI'm in a good, healthy, stable
spot.
I am very happy, my husband andI are very happy together.
We're having another son, we'rebuilding an extension in the
house.
Even though I've lost my mom,I'm so grateful for the life I
have.
(44:51):
And professionally, I've beenable to accomplish so many
things as far as helping tobuild a program and write the
book that was from my heart tomy mom.
Like, I don't, I feel much moresettled in a piece.
So it's kind of like I I rightnow don't have a fire to fight,
but because I have overcome theones that the hand that was
dealt to me.
(45:12):
I've kind of risen to theoccasion because I was taught
perseverance.
But do I know what fire is goingto be in the road ahead of me?
I have no idea.
Um but I do know for my twosons, it is very important to me
to leave a legacy for them thatthey they have the gut, they
have the you know, the moxie.
Um of like I want my son to tonot to understand that you
(45:37):
always have to stand up foryourself and you have to be a
strong man by understandingthings can always go right, but
it's kind of having that balanceof still having gusto to show
them, which that's why I keeplaughing.
Like, I might go back to schoolin you know 10 years, you know.
But I do I know it's gonna behappening around me?
No.
Do I, you know, but I'm always,I think, willing to ask the
(45:58):
question, willing to saysomething if it's not an easy
topic, but I'm willing to saysomething if I know it's the
right thing to do, to be thattrio blazer, to be that that
person that's gonna pushsomething.
SPEAKER_00 (46:11):
And you feel like you have that resilience, that
fortitude.
What was your mom's name?
What is your mom's name?
Nancy.
Nancy, from Nancy.
Like, do you feel like that'sreally from her?
The idea that um I'm I invite achallenge and I know I can
handle it, and I know I'm gonnaum be the person to stand up and
say, like, no, I can tacklethat.
SPEAKER_01 (46:32):
I would say a huge portion of who the person that I
the person that I am today isbecause of my mom.
Yeah.
She was a very, very specialperson.
And I know everyone says that,but she would walk in a room and
she would make everyone smile,but she would make everyone a
better person.
So she graduated with herbachelor's and her master's in
(46:53):
physics from Miami University inOhio, because we're Ohio people.
But she was the second woman toget her uh master's in physics
degree, and this was in the late60s, early 70s.
Early 70s, yeah, because she wasborn in 51.
My mom was the one that hadtaught me the tenacity, but just
taught me the love of life, andjust the combination of those
(47:14):
two is it's a beautiful thing.
Because she taught me how topersevere, how if things don't
go right.
Um, I know the one story thatalways goes back to um after her
brother, my uncle, was very,very dear to us.
And after he passed awaysuddenly, kind of like my mom,
my mom at first had a hard time,but then she's just like, well,
(47:37):
we just have to move forwardbecause that's who we are as
people, and that's what he wouldwant me to do.
And she just has this thisbrilliance about she, my mom
would like my mom would go fromtrading stocks to baking a cake.
She just was this bit of arenaissance woman that I always
felt like I was trying to liveup to be.
Except I just realized thebeauty wasn't just being around
(47:58):
her, just being with her.
And she taught me so much aboutlife.
And I'm so beyond grateful thatI had her.
And that's why with the book andwriting that, she's the one that
when I was building a curriculumand I'm like, I don't know what
to do.
And she's like, Well, when I wasteaching physics, she's like,
and she always had something tosay and some story.
(48:20):
And she was like, Kate, she'slike, You can do it.
And she's like, I'm just gonna,what am I memorized?
She's like, I'm just gonna sithere with you.
You can do it.
I know you can.
SPEAKER_00 (48:29):
Oh my gosh, Nancy.
So the right thing to say there.
SPEAKER_01 (48:32):
She taught me just how so much in life, and it's
just when something's that good,you just want more of it.
Yeah, and I know that, and I waslooking through all your
questions, like I know she wouldlook at me if I could ask her
one thing, like, mom, iseverything okay?
And she'd be like, Yeah.
She's like, I'm with your uncle,and we're watching over you.
And don't she's like, Don't cryabout me.
(48:53):
She's like, You take all thelove that you have for me, and
you love your boys, you loveyour family, and you just move
forward.
And I'm just I'm trying the bestI can to just make her proud and
move forward.
SPEAKER_00 (49:05):
Yeah.
Well, you're doing an amazingjob.
I'm super, super proud of you.
Yeah.
Well, let's honor Nancy a littlebit more while you share about
your first children's book.
SPEAKER_01 (49:18):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (49:18):
Called Anesthesia Dreamland.
Hold it up so we can see andtell us how this book came to
be.
SPEAKER_01 (49:25):
So you can kind of see the title.
You can see Night Night SweetChild Safe Blast Off to
Anesthesia Dreamland.
And you can see she has herlittle A superhero outfit on.
I'd say in my dedication, it'sso the rubies in my life.
So I have my mom and my son.
You can kind of see it's a bitof a heart there.
There he's flying.
(49:45):
So the book came about from fromenjoying teaching anesthesia,
enjoying pure education.
And when you have a child andyou read them a book, it is just
their eyes are open and theyjust look at the pictures.
And when I when I read throughall of this, um, and I even made
like a little poem in the frontpage.
(50:06):
So anesthesia, what's yourfreesia?
You cause me amnesia.
Um, my rocket ship ride, you aremy safe guide to dreamland and
back with pride.
And I just the the literary itit was cathartic for me to write
because of what my mom and Italked about.
And that was what in the end,when I was when I was spending
(50:28):
time with her, you know, we talkabout plans and we were talking
about what I want to do.
And when I talked about writinga book, it was something that I
had I had already created astory in my head, I'd want to
say a year before that.
Um, because I had thought aboutit, I had read to my son, and
then when she passed lastsummer, I was like, oh, I'm I'm
(50:48):
I'm gonna do this.
I promised her this is one ofthe things that I'm gonna do.
And then I the beauty, thebeautiful thing was I got
pregnant with my son thebeginning of December, and I
truly believe it was a gift formy mom from beyond.
And when I had that gift, I waslike, okay, I have to I have to
write that book down.
(51:08):
So I I think I wrote it downwithin like two weeks, but it
basically is going through likean inhalational induction for a
child and how they go to likeanesthesia dreamland, but it
kind of goes through the pre-op,um, inter-op pacu, so the
perioperative environment.
And some of the stories that Ido are uh part of it.
So, like for example, you cansee the like the bag, the green
(51:32):
reservoir bag here.
Uh huh.
Um, that is what I draw on thebag to kind of help calm a child
so they're blowing a balloon up.
So a lot of the sayings in hereum are totally what I do.
And even you can kind of see myanesthesia machine now that I
teach engineering.
So I was very specific thateverything had to look medically
accurate.
(51:53):
So when a child came in, theysaid, Oh, a mask, oh, I see
this, I know what this is.
Oh, you're here to help me.
So you're giving them thiswonderful story that they can
have self-empowerment, courage,bravery.
Um, but learn a little somethingand getting writing it out, like
I honestly was so cathartic.
Like I said, was everything thathappened with my mom?
(52:16):
It was just like I was meant todo this.
Like it just it just cametogether so quickly.
So it's and it's been wonderfulthe feedback of people even just
saying, like, oh, my child likedit, or it made them, you know,
ask a question or feel morecomfortable.
And it's it's something that Iwant to do as kind of a passion
project for me, but also myentrepreneurial spirit a little
(52:38):
bit that I like showing that Ican do things outside of
directly affiliated with beingin the operating room.
I think it's good to show ourversatility as practitioners and
as people.
SPEAKER_00 (52:48):
Absolutely.
Uh well, I'm just really, I'mreally grateful that I get to
hold you up, Kate, as what it isand what it means to be a CAA.
And I know people are going towant to reach out to you, buy
the book.
So tell us all the ways, thebest ways to find the book and
to reach out to you.
SPEAKER_01 (53:07):
I forgot that part of it.
So the biggest part is, right?
Um, so this is the actualpaperback version.
So nice big copy.
You can read it, you canactually hold.
I'm old-fashioned, I like books.
Um, but on both Amazon andBarnes and Noble, there is a
paperback.
So you can do this.
You can also do an ebook if thatis something you would like, and
(53:28):
an audiobook.
So I did have, so the publishingcompany helped set me up with a
very good uh narrator, and Ilove her voice.
It's very sing-song-y, it's verychildlike.
Um, but there is also anaudiobook out there, and you can
find links to a lot of thisthrough the website that I
created, which is CAA HyphenAnesthesia Dreamland.
(53:50):
As you can see, there might bemore, there might be a series.
So we're doing safe, safe, blastoff to anesthesia dreamland.
There might be something maybewith an IV induction, or I, you
know, my mind just keeps going.
But yeah, so CAA hyphenanesthesia dreamland.
And then I also have a page onFacebook, Instagram, LinkedIn.
So I try and make myselfavailable because I really do
(54:11):
want to be a resource for otherpeople if they have questions on
things.
SPEAKER_00 (54:14):
I am sure there is someone listening who has a book
inside of them.
Um so I'm just really gratefulfor you sharing your story.
And are you ready for yourone-minute rapid fire, a true
rapid fire?
SPEAKER_01 (54:26):
You know, I take things as they come.
That's my life learning, isdon't estimate, just take it as
it comes.
SPEAKER_00 (54:35):
Thanks for listening to Awakened Anesthetist.
If this episode resonated withyou, share it with a CAA friend,
an AA student in your life, or aperspective, and let them know
why you loved it.
It's the most important thingyou can do to support this
podcast and its mission.
You can always find more ways toconnect with me and this CAA
(54:57):
community atawakenedanesthetist.com,
including an invitation to joinseason five Mindful Connections.
These are free virtualgatherings open to anyone in our
Awakened Anesthetist community.
And while you're scrolling thewebsite, check out my trusted
CAA partners who make thispodcast possible with a special
(55:19):
thank you to my season fivesponsor, Harmony and Asegia
staffing.
Talk soon.
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