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In Part 5 I am answering the question, "How to Land and Leverage Those Darn Shadowing Hours?"
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- Pt. 4 How Much Do CAAs Make?
- Pt. 3 Where Can CAAs Work?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (03:36):
Defensiveness is one of the top ways to disqualify
yourself as a competitivecandidate.
Defensiveness is going to causeso much trouble in your
anesthesia training as well.
If you're defensive, you're notbeing teachable.
SPEAKER_00 (04:00):
Welcome to the Awakened Anesthetist Podcast,
the first podcast to highlightthe CAA experience.
I'm your host, Mary Jean, andI've been a certified
anesthesiologist assistant forclose to two decades.
Throughout my journey andstruggles, I've searched for
guidance that includes my uniqueperspective as a CAA.
(04:21):
At one of my lowest points, Idecided to turn my passion for
storytelling and my belief thatthe CAA profession is uniquely
able to create a life by designinto a podcast.
If you are a practicing CAA,current AA student, or someone
who hopes to be one, I encourageyou to stick around and
experience the power of being inthe community filled with voices
(04:46):
who sound like yours, sharingexperiences you never believed
possible.
I know you will find yourselfhere at the Awakened Anesthetist
Podcast.
Welcome in.
Welcome everyone to AwakenedAnesthetist Podcast, and welcome
to our understanding the CAAprofession.
(05:07):
This is a little series on thepodcast where I take a deep dive
into some of the mysteries, someof the big questions behind this
profession.
So I'll link in the show notessome of the previous episodes,
things like how much does a CAAmake, what exactly is a CAA.
(05:28):
There's also one called What aCAA is not.
And this is just my attempt athelping those who are interested
in the profession, the pre-AAcommunity, or just perspectives
in general, get their feet wet,sort of understand from a CAA
what this profession entails,because we know how hard it is
(05:49):
to find really reliableinformation on this profession.
So I wanted to welcome myspecial guest today, who's going
to be helping me discuss allthings shadowing.
Her name is Sarah Whitfield.
She is a CAA as well as thecreator and founder of
AspiringCAA.com, which is aplatform that helps pre-AAs
(06:12):
become CAAs.
And I'm just really excited totalk all things shadowing with
her.
So welcome, Sarah, to AwakenAnnesotist.
SPEAKER_01 (06:22):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be on yourpodcast.
SPEAKER_00 (06:25):
Yeah.
And actually, Sarah has been onhere before, and we've actually
discussed a little bit ofshadowing before.
But um, and I will of courselink those, but because
shadowing is such a mysterywithin this profession, we
wanted to have a much longerconversation.
So if people are new to you,Sarah, people are totally new to
(06:45):
the CAA profession and just cameacross this podcast.
Can you just briefly describewho you are, um, what you're
doing within the CAA profession,and why you're specifically
qualified to talk so detailedabout shadowing?
SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
Absolutely.
So I'm Sarah Whitfield.
I am a practicing certifiedanesthesiologist assistant.
And I have been for about eightyears now.
And I am the founder ofaspiringCAA.com.
And that means that I'veinteracted with a lot of
pre-CAAs who are trying to getaccepted to CA school.
(07:21):
And a big part of that processis getting shadowing
opportunities.
So I have helped coach lots ofpeople through that process on a
step-by-step level because it'seasy to just give generic advice
like find shadowing, but whatare the actual steps that you
have to go through to do that?
And then on another level, too,I have admissions committee
(07:44):
experience.
I was on an admissions committeefor an AA program for five
years.
So I've actually seen how thatshadowing translates to an
application.
I've looked at the number ofhours that people have
shadowing.
I've looked at the descriptionsthat they've written to describe
those experiences.
I've read thousands of personalstatements that articulate how
(08:08):
and why that shadowing wasimpactful or meaningful to that
person.
So between the admissionscommittee experience and the
coaching experience, I have aunique perspective to really
dive into the ins and outs ofshadowing.
SPEAKER_00 (08:22):
Okay, so prospectives who are listening
or people who want to get intothis profession likely know that
shadowing is a requirement onthe CASA application to get into
each and every AA program.
Can you give us a littlebackground on why shadowing is
important, why it's asked, andwhat the student should be using
(08:44):
the shadow experience for?
SPEAKER_01 (08:46):
So I certainly remember my first time
shadowing.
I ended up shadowing at twodifferent hospitals before I
applied, which was great becausethen I got to see a couple
different settings and a coupledifferent hospitals because each
hospital does do things a littlebit differently.
And it is nice to see that.
So at this point, that is 10plus years ago.
(09:08):
But shadowing is still arequirement today for people who
want to get accepted to CIAschool.
And the reason it is required isbecause programs want students
who really know what they'regetting into.
They want students who areexcited to be there and who are
(09:28):
going to stay.
Right?
Programs don't want somebodywho's gonna show up, realize, oh
wait, I didn't really realizewhat I was signing up for, and
then withdraw from the program.
That's certainly what they whatthey don't want.
So they want staying power, theywant students who have a good
grasp on what they're gettingthemselves into.
And shadowing is really thefoundational way to do that.
(09:52):
Now, there are other other waysas well to get familiar with the
profession, but shadowingcertainly is the one that's
required and it's foundational,and it's the one that allows you
to actually see theresponsibilities, see the
workflow, see what is requiredof a CAA, and you know, see both
the pros and maybe the the thecons, just like there are with
(10:14):
any job.
Now I have read lots and lots ofapplications, probably thousands
of applications at this point.
And so I've seen what it lookslike for somebody to really
understand and know about theprofession.
And when I'm trying to assessthat from an admissions
(10:34):
committee standpoint, I'mcertainly looking at the
shadowing hours.
And something I do want tomention, it's not just about the
absolute hours.
I'm also looking for other waysthroughout the application that
this person is showing me thatthey know about this profession.
So I'm looking at the personalstatement.
Do they use, do they even callthe profession the right thing?
(10:57):
Are they using the properjargon?
Have they actually been payingattention and learning while
they were in their shadowingopportunity?
So, yes, shadowing is important.
It is foundational.
And it can still be true thatyou also need to go one step
further in your application andshow how that shadowing actually
(12:14):
affected you, what you actuallylearned from that shadowing
experience.
So we start with shadowing andthen we move into that process
of showing how shadowingactually made an impact on you.
And that's where we're reallymaking sure that you're
intentionally doing that in yourapplication.
That's where that kind of comesinto play.
(12:35):
And I think that's where I amuniquely qualified to offer some
perspective on that.
Since I have, like I mentioned,read many, many applications and
I've had people shadow me in theOR.
And like I mentioned, 10 plusyears ago, I was the one
shadowing in the OR.
So I kind of can come at it fromall the different perspectives.
(12:56):
So from a perspective student,from somebody who has had
shadowers in the OR, and fromsomebody who has actually looked
at applications at a very largevolume to really see and
understand how that shadowingshines through on the
application.
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
So leading up to this episode, you pulled your
audience and gave me a list ofall the most frequently asked
questions I've asked my audienceon Instagram and in my email
community.
I also specifically reached outto the pre-AA Network, which is
a new-ish network on Instagram.
It's at PreAA Network, as wellas the Pre-CAA Non-Traditional
(13:36):
Student Association, which isalso on Instagram and their
website.
Um, and they are at nt.preca.
And they sent me a whole batchof questions.
And so let's start off with arapid fire round, and we're
gonna do it as rapidly aspossible, knowing that I'm a
yapper.
And we will then follow up withsome much more in-depth answers.
(13:59):
So, okay, are we ready for therapid fire, Miss Sarah?
Let's do it.
Okay, here we go.
There's about 10-ish.
All right.
Which types of providers can apre-AA shadow for the hours to
count?
SPEAKER_01 (14:13):
They can shadow an anesthesiologist, a CAA, or a
CRNA.
SPEAKER_00 (14:18):
How many shadowing hours is enough?
The minimum that the schoolrequires.
How many shadowing hours isoverkill?
SPEAKER_01 (14:26):
More than 50.
SPEAKER_00 (14:28):
Should you have your mom DM a CAA on LinkedIn or
Instagram with a shadowingrequest?
SPEAKER_01 (14:35):
Absolutely not.
SPEAKER_00 (14:36):
If offered to sit during my shadowing experience,
like sit in a chair, should Isit down?
SPEAKER_01 (14:43):
Definitely.
SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
Is the shadowing requirement waived if I have
experience as an anesthesia techor some other in the operating
room position?
Not at most schools.
Are people grading me orassessing me when I shadow?
Absolutely.
Should I send a thank youfollow-up?
For sure.
What do I wear to show up as ashadow?
(15:05):
Probably scrubs.
Should I introduce myself topeople in the OR or wait until
the person I'm shadowing doesit?
Get clarity beforehand with yourpreceptor.
Love it.
Okay.
Those were so rapid.
Great job.
SPEAKER_01 (15:18):
It was hard.
It was so hard for me to berapid.
SPEAKER_00 (15:20):
I had more to say about all of them.
Uh yes, I know.
I knew that was gonna happen.
But okay, let's dive into someof the longer questions.
Again, these were submitted byour mutual communities and the
pre-AA network and thenon-traditional student
association of pre-AAs.
Um, okay, the number one mostasked question, and we're just
gonna start out with it becauseit lays the groundwork, is how
(15:43):
can I get shadowing hours?
SPEAKER_01 (15:47):
This is such an important question.
And the answer is pretty robustbecause there are a lot of
different ways to go aboutfinding shadowing.
And what I'll say is if you'vebeen trying one of the
techniques that I'm about tomention and you've not been
having success, that is your cueto pivot and try one of these
other techniques that I'm gonnashare.
Right.
(16:07):
So, number one, I would say workto leverage your network.
You might have healthcareproviders in your own circles.
So it might be a friend's parentor a family member.
So start asking around.
And it doesn't just have to be aCIA, you can start trying to get
(16:28):
in touch with anyone who hasties to the operating room.
For example, when I'm in theoperating room, I try to learn
everybody's name.
I try to be familiar witheveryone in the OR.
So if you can network withsomebody or find somebody in
your own circle who has ties tothe OR, like a circulating nurse
or a scrub tech or even asurgeon, they could introduce
(16:52):
you to an anesthesia provider.
So think about your broadernetwork.
Don't just ask yourself, well,do I know any CIAs?
Because the most likely answeris you probably you don't.
So I want you to start thinkingmore broadly.
The other thing I want you tostart thinking about when it
comes to leveraging your networkis reach out to upperclassmen
who are also pursuing anesthesiaor who are also pursuing the
(17:16):
healthcare field.
They likely have already gonethrough the shadowing process
and might have contacts thatthey would be willing to share
with you.
So that's a very, very powerfultip to reach out to
upperclassmen at youruniversity.
Another option is to startreaching out to local hospitals
and surgery centers.
(17:36):
When you reach out, yes, that'sgoing to be most likely a cold
reach out, so a cold call or acold email.
Sometimes these hospitals orsurgery centers have a shadowing
office that you can reach outto.
So I would recommend starting bysimply looking up their website
and seeing what kind of contactinformation you can find.
(17:58):
Other ways you can start tryingto get shadowing is through
networking in person.
So you could attend ananesthesia conference.
You could attend the Quad AAnnual Conference, which that
stands for the American Academyof Anesthesiologist Assistance.
They do have an annual meetingthat has hundreds and hundreds
of CIAs and prospective CAAs andCAA students.
(18:19):
And they also haverepresentatives from many, many,
many different hospitals.
So that's a great opportunity tosee which hospitals are allowing
shadowers and if you can getcontact information to set up
shadowing.
The FAA, the Florida Academy ofAnesthesiologist Assistants,
also has an annual meeting thatis a great place to meet
(18:41):
anesthetists.
You can also think about usingonline platforms like LinkedIn
and Facebook groups, but you canalso contact state academies.
State academies are present in alot of states, not every state
just yet, but a lot of states dohave state academies, and you
can find their websites.
(19:02):
I actually have an article on mywebsite that links to each and
every single CIA academywebsite, and you can email them,
introduce yourself, explain whyyou're interested in the CIA
profession, and explain that youwould love if they would be able
to help you find shadowing.
And then a few other tips that Ilike to mention are making sure
(19:25):
that you are willing to travel.
As much as we all wish thingswould be convenient and easy,
and just a 20-minute drive downthe road to the local hospital.
The reality is many applicantsare traveling to get shadowing.
And I'm not just talking abouttraveling an hour away.
I have seen applicants travelout of state to get their
(19:47):
shadowing hours.
By the way, if you do that, thatshould absolutely show up in
your application very clearly.
When I would look at anapplication, it was tremendously
impressive to me to see somebodygo to that length to fulfill the
shadowing requirement.
And the other tip that I'll sayis be persistent, be persistent.
(20:08):
If you keep getting no's, theonly way forward is to continue
asking and searching until youget a yes.
I know it can be discouraging ifthe first few people say no, but
please, please, please hear methat that is normal.
It is very normal for this to bea process that takes multiple
months.
(20:28):
So I do like to recommendstarting early.
And in fact, some of the mostcreative ways that I've seen
people get shadowing.
Um, I remember one person toldme, Sarah, I emailed 40 people
before somebody said yes.
And I was so impressed by thatpersistence.
Somebody else told me that theyhad an extended family member
(20:52):
who was getting a procedure atthe hospital.
And this pre-CAA asked if theycould attend in the pre-op area
with their family member.
And they ended up introducingthemselves to the
anesthesiologist and asking ifthey could schedule a time to
shadow.
And the anesthesiologist saidyes.
So that is Whoa, that'sdefinitely one of the most
(21:12):
creative ways that I've seensomebody find shadowing.
But hopefully, what you'reyou're taking away from this is
that there's a lot of differentways to try.
And so get creative and see ifyou can find a way that that
maybe you haven't thought of.
And one more technique that I'llI'll mention, although I
typically do like to recommendthis as a more of a last resort,
(21:36):
is recommend as uh reaching outto CAA programs.
So some CAA programs are willingto help coordinate shadowing
opportunities for you.
The reason I typically say as alast resort is just because they
can get overwhelmed with volume.
And it's great if you canachieve this requirement on your
own without needing the programto help you.
(21:57):
Hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (21:58):
I have follow-up questions.
I'm gonna be the person who'slistening that's like, wait a
little, like, let's backtrack.
Um, first, I wanted to say, justas like an overall message that
I hear you saying is that thisis a long game.
This is not like a couplequestions, a couple emails, and
you're there.
It may happen like that,especially if you have an
(22:19):
anesthesia provider in yourinner circle.
Um, but plan on it not happeninglike that.
And I love that you highlightedthe idea that let's say you
don't have an anesthesiaprofessional in your inner
circle, uh an anesthesiologist,a CRNA, or a CAA, but maybe you
have a surgeon or your cousin'sa scrub tech.
You could shadow your cousin,the scrub tech, set that as the
(22:43):
groundwork while you're there,have your cousin introduce you
to some anesthesia people, andthen start building that
relationship.
And we're talking this is goingto take probably months or a
year.
So if you are a pre-AA, you wantto start thinking about this how
early?
How, you know, far out should westart looking at shadowing if
we're pre-AA?
SPEAKER_01 (23:05):
I would say as soon as you realize you're a pre-CAA,
it really is not too early tostart.
It's not like these hoursexpire.
So if even if you're a freshmanand this is something you're
thinking about, I encourage youto go ahead and start getting
the shadowing hour hours.
Not only because it can take awhile to find shadowing
(23:28):
successfully, but also becauseshadowing is a technique that
you're going to use to confirmif it's the right profession for
you.
And while I love being a CAA, Ithink it's one of the best
professions out there.
At the same time, it is not foreverybody.
So if you're considering itearly on, like as a freshman, go
(23:48):
ahead and get that shadowingopportunity and it will either
confirm that this is what youwant to do, and it will give you
motivation to chase after it ashard as you can, or it's going
to show you maybe this isn't theright profession for me.
But now I have time to pivot andpick something else.
So I think there are reallymultiple reasons why it's great
to start getting shadowing assoon as you realize that you're
(24:10):
interested in anesthesia.
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
She lives in Idaho, but her mom had a church friend
who was an anesthesiologist whopracticed in California.
And if anyone is uh knowingsomewhat about the CAA
profession, you would probablyknow that CAAs are not in either
of those states, neither Idahonor California.
So she went through the hoopsbasically to hook up with this
(24:47):
anesthesiologist, like, youknow, have her mom hook up, make
the connection.
Then the California hospital'sprotocol was that she had to be
a volunteer at this Californiahospital before they'd even
consider her as a shadow.
So she had to go through all thevolunteering setup and classes.
And this meant she was flyingfrom Idaho to California, you
(25:08):
know, a lot.
And then finally, this resultedin enough volunteer hours that
she could then apply to be ashadow.
And then she shadowed thisanesthesiologist, I think for
maybe three days in a row.
So she lived with her parentsfor three days, shadowed as many
hours as she could, those threedays, and had an incredible
experience.
But the whole process tookmonths and her own money and her
(25:32):
traveling.
And just I was so impressed byher.
I'm impressed by her for manyreasons, but the fact that that
is the lengths you have to go tocan be discouraging, but also it
is possible.
Um, and if you put that mucheffort into it, what I'm hearing
you say as a former admissionscommittee member, that you will
(25:54):
then put that in your umapplication and it makes you
stand out.
It makes you look so committed.
Is that correct?
SPEAKER_01 (26:00):
Absolutely.
I think that example sums it upbeautifully, that it's not
always going to be easy.
But if you are committed togetting an acceptance, you're
gonna figure out a way to makeit work.
SPEAKER_00 (26:12):
Mm-hmm.
Love it.
Okay.
Um, I am gonna scroll throughour questions because I knew
this was gonna happen where someof the questions would get
answered in another question.
Um, but my brain lit up when youwere saying, okay, you could
reach out on social media, youcould email people or or someone
you know sent 40 emails.
So let's dive in a little bitinto what you're actually
(26:36):
saying.
We've already covered you, donot ever have your mom reach out
to a CAA or anyone in healthcareand say, how can my Suzy Q or
Pete Joe uh be a CAA shadow?
Um, so what do you do?
What do you say, and whichsocial media outlet maybe is the
best?
Is it email?
Is it LinkedIn?
Let's hear your thoughts.
SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
I tend to like LinkedIn and email.
I think those get the mosttraction and they feel a little
bit more professional than sayFacebook.
I think it's really important interms of what you include in the
message when you reach out.
So, first, it always needs tostart off with an introduction.
And that would include your fullname, your status.
(27:21):
So when I say status, I meanexplain that you are a pre-CAA
student, you go to school at X,Y, Z University, and you are a
junior.
So just kind of put some contextaround where you are either as a
student or as a non-traditionalapplicant.
And in the introduction, alsomention how you found them.
(27:44):
I always appreciate whensomebody was reaching out to me,
they kind of explain somebackground, like, oh, my friend
mentioned this, or I wasintentionally looking on
LinkedIn for CIAs and I cameacross your profile.
So just kind of give them thatbackground information.
It makes it feel warmer, itmakes it feel more intentional
when you include how you foundthem.
(28:08):
Then express genuine interest inthe profession.
So take a sentence or two, itdoesn't have to be super long,
but just briefly explain what isdrawing you to the CIA
profession.
It's okay if you don't knoweverything about it yet, right?
At this point, you probablyhaven't shadowed because you're
trying to find shadowing.
So don't let this part stressyou out.
It doesn't have to be somethingsuper deep, but just a sentence
(28:31):
or two about what got youinterested in exploring it
further.
And then come out and state veryclearly that you are reaching
out for a shadowing opportunity.
You don't have to be shy aboutthat.
Just say politely, I would loveto shadow you to further my
understanding of the CIAprofession.
(28:52):
And then what I would say isshare your availability and
above all, share that you areflexible.
So you don't want to just shareavailability because that could
be interpreted as a little bitdemanding.
But if you add that component ofthis is when I'm available, but
I will work around yourschedule.
(29:13):
When you say it like that, itcomes across as very
professional and not assuming ofthe other person's time.
So it's gonna make it easier forthem to say yes, if you include
your availability and includeyour flexibility.
Then I would say it's nice ifyou acknowledge that you
understand that there may besome red tape or some protocols
(29:34):
around the shadowing experience.
A lot of hospitals do haveprotocols.
They have paperwork, or theymight have training modules, or
you might need a temporarybadge.
There's so many things that ahospital might require of you.
You might have to show yourimmunization records.
I actually had to do that when Ishadowed 10 years ago.
So it's really important to justacknowledge that and say, hey,
(29:57):
I'm willing to do whatever,whatever it takes.
It shows that you know that thismight not be just an easy
process, but you're gonna bethere to stick it out because
you're committed.
So that shows shows yourcommitment.
And then I would say expressgratitude and and be polite.
So just thank them for theirconsideration, even though they
haven't responded yet.
(30:18):
You know, they're gonna take thetime to read your message.
So a simple thank you so muchfor taking the time to read this
and thank you for yourconsideration.
You don't have to pre-thank themfor letting you shadow them
because you don't know theanswer yet, but certainly it's a
polite gesture to show some somegratitude.
And then I would say sign offwith a professional signature
(30:39):
block.
I think that really elevatesyour message.
So your first and last name, andthen you could include your
contact information, so youremail address, your cell phone
number.
And if you wanted, you couldeven include your city or your
university just to give somecontext around who you are.
It's kind of easier to remember.
Um, I think when you structureit that way and you include each
(31:02):
of those items, it helps themfeel like, oh, I I kind of know
that know why this person isreaching out to me.
I know a little bit ofbackground on them.
I can tell they're serious, Ican tell that they have a
genuine interest in thisprofession.
And the likelihood of themsaying yes really does increase.
And I want to uh uh elaborate alittle bit on why I really
(31:23):
discourage parents from reachingout.
I personally have had multipleparents land in my inbox.
And the reason why I discouragethat is because it makes it seem
like the student isn't the onedriving the interest.
It makes it seem like the parentis the one interested in their
child becoming a CIA.
(31:43):
And that's not what I want tosee.
That's not what the admissionscommittee wants to see.
The admissions committee wantsto see that the applicant is
truly the one driven to become aCIA.
So that's just a little bit morebackground information.
Um, parents out there, if you'relistening, I love that you are
so invested in your child'ssuccess.
And at the same time, it'simportant to keep in mind that
(32:05):
they do need to be a little bitmore independent in this
process.
SPEAKER_00 (32:10):
You are so generous with that because I'm like, no,
do not know parents.
I know it's it's interesting toreceive, I get a lot of DMs from
parents, which is just even lessprofessional.
Like I do too.
SPEAKER_01 (32:25):
And I will be honest, I have started, you
know, politely mentioning that.
So, you know, I think it's goingto be received really well if
your student reached out becauseit's gonna really highlight
their interest.
SPEAKER_00 (32:37):
You are the nicest person I know.
Um, okay, let me ask somequestions to dive deeper and to
like really paint this picture.
So I think I want you toelaborate on some of those
behind the scenes.
Like, can a CAA, if you reachout to them and say, I want a
shadow, can that CAA who maybewants you to shadow them is okay
(33:02):
with it?
Can they drive an okay for youto shadow at their hospital?
Like, can they alone get thepermission for you to shadow?
Or are you always gonna have togo through some sort of HR, you
know, educational committee ofthe hospital to get your badge
and your immunization.
So talk to me about that in2025.
SPEAKER_01 (33:22):
It depends on the hospital.
I wish I could tell you auniversal rule or a universal
protocol, but the truth is eachhospital has the authority, has
the independence to decide whatit looks like at their location,
which means sometimes there is alot of red tape, there is a lot
of paperwork, there's a wholenother department that you're
(33:44):
gonna have to apply through.
At other locations, sometimes itis enough where if the
anesthetist vouches for you, youcan just show up.
And as long as you'reprofessional, there's there's no
problems.
So once again, it's reallylocation dependent.
And I would say the best thingto do is just ask when you're
reaching out to the personyou're shadowing.
(34:05):
And like I said, mention, hey,I'm willing to do whatever it
takes.
Any any paperwork, anyapplication process, I'm happy
to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (34:14):
Yes.
And uh thank you for explainingthat because I do think that's
one of the hard parts aboutshadowing is that there are
different protocols at everysingle hospital, and you, the
prospective AA student, does notknow that inner working.
It's like calling the WhiteHouse and being like, Hey, can I
come over?
And you know, maybe if you knewthe right person.
And they'd be like, come on in.
But generally, there's probablygoing to be some sort of red
(34:36):
tape now.
I would say just in 2025.
It's definitely been harder overthe years to get just that
walk-in experience to shadow,yeah, I'm going to bring my son
or daughter.
You know, that's that wasdefinitely my experience 20
years ago.
There was something else Iwanted to pull out from what you
said, which was, you know,little tips about how to appear
(34:57):
very intentional, veryprofessional when you reach out.
Even if it's a colder reach out,there's ways to warm up your
email, meaning, as you said, tosay how you know this person.
And I also love to see that thisis an email that's been sent
directly to me.
This is not a stock email thatwas sent out to 40 CAAs you
(35:18):
found on LinkedIn, but it is forme to me.
So if you offer things likewhere you are in the world
versus where I am, I'm in KansasCity.
So everyone who DMs me or emailsme and is like, hey, I'm from
Olatha, Kansas, and I found you.
And, you know, gives me a littlebit of that personalization.
It feels more like I'm helping afriend out.
(35:41):
Um, because at the end of theday, this is extra work that you
are asking a CAA to do for free.
And CAAs are oftentimes verywilling to help people who want
to be a CAA, who are diligentand intentional and
professional, and we feel likeare good, you know, examples of
what a CAA is, we want to helpthat person.
(36:03):
And you can look like thatperson in a really professional,
intentional reach out, even acold reach out.
Would you agree with all that?
SPEAKER_01 (36:11):
Absolutely.
I think that's a big part ofgetting a yes is coming across
as authentic and somebody whohas genuine curiosity.
And when you present yourselfthat way, somebody gets excited
to help you.
And so absolutely, I agree witheverything you just said.
You are more likely to get a yesif it feels like a personalized
(36:33):
message.
SPEAKER_00 (36:34):
And the other thing I wanted to say, just as some
tips, is that if you reach outto a CAA and maybe they give you
one little step forward.
Like, for example, someonereaches out to me and asks,
where can I shadow in the KansasCity area?
And I give them a list of threehospitals that they could
contact, you should absolutelyrespond back to me and say, Hey,
(36:56):
I followed up.
I called these three hospitals.
Here's where I am in theprocess.
Because every time you connectwith a CAA, you're embedding the
chance to, you know, meet themin the future at the Quad A or
at a different conference.
Or maybe I become, you know, onsome admissions committee.
Like this world is very, verysmall.
And you, if you have a CAAcontact, you want to keep that
(37:19):
contact warm.
I love how we're using marketingterms here, but you want to
reach back out to that CAA,thank them, even if they didn't
actually have you shadow, theyjust gave you information.
SPEAKER_01 (37:29):
I love that perspective because what I hear
you saying is that networking isimportant.
And I want you to think ofshadowing as a form of
networking, because the truth isit is.
And I think that idea reallyrolls into the question that we
also get of can I keep incontact with somebody that I
(37:50):
shadow?
And I think the the answershould always be yes.
Try your very, very best to keepin contact, continue networking.
Like you mentioned, send afollow-up message, even if you
couldn't shadow them, but theymaybe pointed you in the right
direction.
Mention, hey, thank you for thattip.
Because then I successfully gotshadowing.
And after you shadow somebody,um, you know, send a thank you
(38:12):
message or a handwritten thankyou note.
You know, you can feel out thesituation as to what you feel is
is appropriate.
Sometimes you have to read, readthe situation, read the room a
little bit.
But when you come back to thisperson that you shadow, when you
reach out to them again, itstarts to build a relationship.
And that's what networking is.
(38:32):
It's not just, oh, we met thatone time when I shadowed.
It's repeated interaction.
So give them updates about whatyour next step was, even if it
doesn't have anything to do withshadowing, even if it's, hey, I
just wanted to mention thatshadowing really solidified my
interest in this profession.
And I've decided to pursue it.
I've signed up to take OCEM oneand physics one.
(38:53):
You know, tell them about yourschedules.
Tell them about the next stepsthat you're taking to make your
dream of becoming a CAA areality.
And then that's going to open upa dialogue.
And that's how you keep theconversation going.
That's how you stay in touch.
SPEAKER_00 (39:08):
Yes.
Yes, yes, yes.
Okay.
I'm sure there's more to say.
There's always more to say, butlet's go on to this other great
question we got.
Um, this was sent actually byBrandon, who leads the non-TRAD
pre-CAA student association.
And the question is (39:25):
it's hard to come up with questions as the
pre-AA, as the perspective thataren't just superficial when
you're in the OR shadowing,especially if you are someone
who is unfamiliar withanesthesia.
So, what can you recommend tohelp them become more familiar
with the anesthesia setting, theclinical, the operating room
(39:47):
setting, and procedures so thatthe pre-AAs can ask, the
shadowers can ask goodquestions.
And this person also says hisgoal is to be able to ask deeper
questions and develop a betterunderstanding.
SPEAKER_01 (40:02):
This is a great question.
And the fact that you're askingthis question, I think already
shows your motivation and yourinterest.
And ultimately, that's what theperson who you're shadowing
wants to see, that you havegenuine interest and that you
are genuinely motivated.
I will say I have never beenasked a question from a shadower
where I thought, wow, that justwasn't deep enough.
(40:24):
Because I fully understand wherethey are in the process.
I understand that they are stilllearning the basics.
At the same time, I think it canbe helpful and set you apart if
you are intentional aboutpreparing before you, before you
come to a shadowing opportunity.
So you can start doing a littlebit of your own research about
(40:44):
what are the responsibilities,what is the workflow of being a
CAA?
You could read articles, youcould watch YouTube videos, you
could read a very basicanesthesia book.
I'm not saying read a textbook.
That's that's too much.
That's too much to digest atthis point, but just learn some
basic terminology, learn some ofthe basic flow, like what does
(41:05):
induction mean?
What does maintenance mean?
What does emergence mean?
What are some of these toolsthat we use to manage the
airway?
What are some of the routinedrugs that we use for almost
each and every case?
So if you start there, you'regonna go to your shadowing
opportunity and recognize someof these things and then be able
to ask questions based off whatyou already know, even if it's
(41:28):
just a little bit.
So I do want to take thepressure off a little bit
because kind of what I heardfrom that question was you felt
a lot of pressure to ask justthe right questions.
And I want to reframe that alittle bit where when somebody
comes to shadow me, I'm not I'mnot over-analyzing their
questions.
What I ultimately want to see isthat there's genuine interest
(41:50):
and they are doing their verybest to engage with what is
happening in front of them.
So, you know, those questionscan be about the anesthetic
itself.
And you can take thatopportunity too to just learn
about the CIA's perspectiveabout being a CIA.
So that's a great time to askabout schedule or um or
lifestyle questions.
(42:10):
So there's a lot of differentquestion types that you can ask,
but like I said, take thepressure off yourself.
Just try to think of it as howcan I show this person that I'm
genuinely interested?
SPEAKER_00 (42:21):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And what I hear you saying, andwhat is true for me as a
shadowing preceptor is that I'mimpressed when you're genuine,
you're interested, and you'recurious.
I don't so much care about thespecific pharmacological
question you're asking me ifyou're like came up with some
really quote unquote goodquestion.
Um, yeah, but you are beingassessed, but you're being
(42:44):
assessed in this um, you know,like larger way.
And also a couple of things Iwanted to throw in there.
Um, since I have started doingpre-AA Matters, which is a
professionalism course for thepre-AA community, I've been
interacting much more withpre-AAs.
And there's a book going aroundwithin that community called
(43:04):
Anesthesia Made Easy.
I'm I know you're nodding yourhead.
I know you've heard of it.
Um, it was around when I was,you know, way back when as well,
but it's like less than 200pages.
It is super digestible.
It is meant to be sort of aprimer to your first step into
an anesthesia rotation inmedical school.
(43:26):
And it is a very, very good,solid resource to read before
your first day of shadowing.
Um, and then I also wanted tojust say that um so much of what
Sarah's talking about and somuch of what is perceived as a
shadower by your preceptor isemotional intelligence and
interpersonal communicationskills.
(43:47):
It doesn't really have much todo with your anesthesia
knowledge.
It matters, you know, can you bea foot away from me and make
conversation and then and notfeel like stalled or not feel
super awkward?
Um, can you read the room, whichis a phrase Sarah used and is a
very common phrase inanesthesia?
Like, can you feel thatemotional temperature when it is
(44:10):
appropriate to ask questions andwhen it is more appropriate for
you to kind of drop back ifthere's something, you know,
more serious going on in theoperating room or if it's more
intense moment.
And I would love to hear yourperspective, Sarah, on when is
it appropriate to ask questionsand when is it not, and how do I
read the room?
Like how do I develop thatemotional intelligence in an
(44:31):
operating room if I've neverbeen in an operating room?
SPEAKER_01 (44:33):
I love this question because I have such a powerful
tip.
When it comes to being ananesthesia provider, if I am
standing up and actively doingtasks, that's not a good time to
ask me a question.
I might be very focused onputting in the endotracheal
(44:54):
tube.
I might be very focused onputting in the IV or putting in
the arterial line.
So that might be a high taskload time for me.
But once I get settled and if mypatient is stable and you see me
sit down, that is the perfecttime to ask questions.
So I want your rule of thumb tobe if the person I'm shadowing
is sitting down, that's probablya low task load time where they
(45:18):
have the capacity to bothmonitor the patient and field
some questions.
And I will say it can't hurtjust to clarify and say, hey, I
I prepared a few questions,would now be a good time?
That just shows so muchemotional intelligence,
situational awareness, justgetting that clarity before you
(45:38):
start peppering them withquestions.
SPEAKER_00 (45:40):
Mmm, say it again in the back or for the back.
Um, yes, I uh speak to this inpreAA matters about how to set
yourself up just from the momentyou meet your preceptor, your
shadowing preceptor is to have adebrief.
You know, say who you are.
And, you know, there's varyinglevels of comfort.
Have you met this person never,or maybe just emails?
(46:03):
So introducing yourselfappropriately, saying where you
are in your journey, as well asyour goals.
I love to have my shadowingstudent give me their goals for
the day.
And your goal may be I havenever set foot in an operating
room before.
This is my very first time.
My goal is to understand whatthe anesthesia machine is and
(46:24):
how you move about theanesthesia machine and the
patient during the beginning andend of cases or whatever it is.
You know, that's that's theresearch on your end that you're
gonna have to do, coming up withyour goals.
And then as you get more andmore shadowing, you can try to
find those deeper and deeper, asthe question had been asking,
like those deeper and deeperaspects to the profession that
(46:47):
are going to allow you, theshadower, to choose the CAA
profession because you want tobe a CAA.
That's the goal of shadowing isto know that you want to do this
profession.
And that's what the admissionscommittee also wants to see from
you, right?
To see that your shadowingexperience solidified your
understanding that you want tobe a CAA.
(47:08):
Can you say any more about thatand like using your shadowing
experience on your application?
SPEAKER_01 (47:13):
Yes, I I love what you just said.
I kind of want to reiteratesomething you said about kind of
having a briefing beforehand tolist your goals that shows so
much initiative.
And I love to see initiative inapplicants.
And the the little the briefingor the planning beforehand that
you mentioned, I actually do theexact same thing with my CIA
(47:37):
students when I'm preceptingthem in the morning.
I say my expectations for theday.
And I ask, especially if they'rea second-year student, what kind
of goals do you have?
What do you need to work on?
Do you need more A-lines?
Do you need this case type orthat case type?
Do you want more uh moreopportunity to function
independently?
(47:57):
Do you want to work on charting?
Right.
So I think that if you canalready show those things as a
shadower, it's going to be agood indicator, a positive
indicator that you are alsogoing to be successful as a
student.
And then to address the secondpart of that question as to how
does this start to show up onthe application?
How do we translate what you sawinto something positive,
(48:23):
something that makes you standout on the application?
And I think there are a fewdifferent areas.
So on your CASA application,there's an experience section
and you'll select anesthesiashadowing, and then you actually
get to write a description aboutit.
So if you've already come upwith goals each time you
shadowed, those are great thingsto reflect back to and ask
yourself, did I achieve thatgoal?
(48:43):
Is that something that I couldwrite down in the description?
So if your goal was to get morefamiliar with the anesthesia
machine and how the anesthetistinteracts with the anesthesia
machine, part of the descriptioncould be talking about what you
learned about the anesthesiamachine.
Or if your goal was to see ageneral, a Mac, and a regional,
wow, how powerful would it be tobe able to write about that in
(49:06):
the description section thatyou've seen all the different
types of anesthesia.
And then this can also bereflected in your personal
statement as well.
So, you know, part of thatpersonal statement is really
explaining why you want to be aCAA and to fully explain why you
want to be one, of course, youhave to have a good
understanding of who they areand what they do.
(49:28):
And that's where you can draw inthose anecdotes, those stories
that you actually saw andwitnessed in the OR and how they
affected you.
So I always like to emphasizethat you don't want it just to
sound like a story that you'rereporting on, right?
You're not, you're not areporter, you're sharing about
yourself.
So always tie your shadowingexperience back to how it
(49:50):
affected you, how it grew you,how it impacted you.
SPEAKER_00 (49:54):
So good.
Okay.
We have hit so many high points.
I just want to review to makesure there's nothing left on
that pocket of questions.
Uh Miss Kendall, Miss KendallGregg on Instagram asked this
question.
And Sarah, you're uniquelycapable of answering it.
(50:16):
So let me ask you.
She asked, what types ofquestions are important to ask
during shadowing and bonus if ithelps in your interviews as
well.
And we've kind of touched onsome of this already, but I
would love to that second part.
What is maybe an interviewquestion that a student would
receive that would point back totheir shadowing where they would
(50:39):
pull in their shadowingexperience?
SPEAKER_01 (50:41):
So when it comes to interviews, applicants should
anticipate potentially receivingtechnical questions, meaning
questions that have to do withanesthesia itself.
And that is the perfect time tobring in those experiences.
So when it comes to being askeda technical question, the first
thing I want you to hear is thatit is not make or break if you
(51:02):
know the content of the answer.
Okay.
But what give us an example?
SPEAKER_00 (51:07):
Can you give us an example just so we're on the
same?
SPEAKER_01 (51:09):
Sure, sure.
So let's say you're in aninterview and you're asked,
could you explain to me theimportance of pre-oxygenation
prior to induction?
So that that might be a questionthat you would get.
And that's a very basic levelquestion.
And if you've shadowed, thatwould be certainly something you
have seen.
And it would be great if you,you know, if you knew the
(51:31):
answer.
But what I want to get across iseven if you don't know the
answer in depth, just at leastattempt to answer the question.
So you could sit start off with,from what I saw was shadowing, I
remember that they did put themask over the patient's face
every time.
And I saw that they turned theoxygen up.
Now I I don't remember themspecifically mentioning it, but
(51:52):
it would make sense to me.
Or I would think that it wouldbe important for the patient to
have uh a lot of oxygen in theirlungs, because I know that there
might be a period where they'renot breathing before they put
the breathing tube in.
So, right, I explain that invery much not medical jargon.
That's not how I would explainit if I were teaching in a
(52:13):
classroom.
That's not how I would conversewith my students in the OR.
But what I'm trying to show youis you can at least try to
answer the question, even ifit's not too super technical,
right?
There weren't a lot of technicalwords in there, but it showed
me, hey, this person shadowed.
They're clearly trying to recallwhat they observed.
And so, from my perspective as aadmissions committee member, I
(52:35):
think, well, I can teach themall the technical jargon.
Yes.
But what I what I can see isthat they're interested, they
were paying attention, they'reum, you know, they're they're
good at observation, and thoseare all powerful things.
And one more kind of commentwhile we're getting into this
idea of interview.
If you just get the answer flatout wrong, that's okay.
I've seen so many people, I'veaccepted people, I've said yes
(52:57):
to people, been excited toaccept people who have gotten an
answer wrong, but they wereextremely teachable and showed
curiosity when I corrected themand told them the right answer.
And so I think that does tieback to shadowing because we
really want to see curiosity andgenuine interest.
So even if you get it wrong andyou're corrected, just say
something like, thank you somuch for sharing that with me.
(53:20):
I'm excited to go and read moreabout that.
SPEAKER_00 (53:23):
Oh my God.
Thank you so much for sharingthat with me.
I'm excited to go home and readmore about that.
Just say exactly that if you getit wrong.
If you get your interviewquestion wrong.
Also, when you're an AA student,let's talk about transferable
skills.
Everything we're talking aboutas a shadowing student will be a
transferable skill to yourexperience as an SAA in terms of
(53:46):
asking good questions, showingcuriosity, how to show up with
intention and perspective, evenif you're totally new to an
environment, which you will beconstantly as an SAA.
So, all good things.
If you can master this as ashadower, you are well on your
way to success in AA school.
Okay, I think that is going towrap up our general set of
(54:10):
questions.
Sarah and I are going to stay onafter this, and we're going to
record some bonus material,which will be coming out in
another couple weeks.
And we're going to talk aboutwhat CAA preceptors want you,
the shadower, to know before youcome into the operating room.
So we got so many questionsabout, you know, of course,
(54:33):
prepping and when can I askappropriate questions and where
should I stand and all of thosesorts of things?
And because they're all linkedtogether and because it also
takes a CAA perspective, um,Sarah and I are going to talk
just like colleague to colleagueabout it.
And so you can find that bonuscontent here in a couple of
weeks.
Um, Sarah, if preAAs want towork with you, follow up with
(54:55):
you, they need future guidancefrom you, what is the best place
to go to get in contact and tolearn more?
SPEAKER_01 (55:02):
I invite you to connect with me right on my
website.
Head to aspiringca.com.
You will find my offering.
So you'll see how you can getconnected with me.
If you would like me to coachyou through the process of
applying to CAA school.
And if you have a follow-upquestion about that coaching,
you can press the contact tab onmy website and that'll send an
(55:26):
email right to me.
SPEAKER_00 (55:28):
And if there is like one free resource that you want
anyone who's listening to likego first, go right now, what
would that be on your website?
SPEAKER_01 (55:36):
Ooh, so go to the resource tab.
And the very first resource thatI have listed is a recorded Zoom
interview of me with a pre-CAAwho was asking me basically the
same questions that I get overand over again, which is great,
but they're recorded and they'reon demand and there's no
paywall.
(55:56):
You don't have to put in youremail even.
You just hop right on there andit's like I am just giving you
all the info for people who areinterested in this profession
and for people who are trying toget answers to kind of the basic
questions when you're firstexploring a career path.
SPEAKER_00 (56:15):
So, not necessarily about shadowing, just like all
things CAA.
This is my first contact.
Watch this on-demand video.
SPEAKER_01 (56:22):
Yes.
Yes.
Amazing.
And even if you scroll down too,you'll see some shadowing
resources too, like how to prep.
And I have a shadowing trackeron there too.
SPEAKER_00 (56:30):
Amazing.
All right.
Well, thank you so much.
And I hope everyone feels muchmore resourced and prepared to
shadow.
We know it's kind of a wildworld out there and it's really
difficult.
And we just encourage you, ifyou're really serious about the
CAA profession, to just put thework, put the effort in.
It will pay off.
The profession is as amazing asit seems.
(56:52):
And Sarah and I really umencourage you to keep going.
So we'll talk soon, folks.
Thanks for listening to AwakenedAnesthetist.
If this episode resonated withyou, share it with a CAA friend,
(57:14):
an AA student in your life, or aperspective, and let them know
why you loved it.
It's the most important thingyou can do to support this
podcast and its mission.
You can always find more ways toconnect with me and this CAA
community atawakenedanesthetist.com,
including an invitation to joinseason five Mindful Connections.
(57:38):
These are free virtualgatherings open to anyone in our
Awakened Anesthetist community.
And while you're scrolling thewebsite, check out my trusted
CAA partners who make thispodcast possible with a special
thank you to my season fivesponsor, Harmony Anesthesia
Staffing.
Talk soon.
Defensiveness is one of the top ways to disqualify
yourself as a competitivecandidate.
Defensiveness is going to causeso much trouble in your
anesthesia training as well.
If you're defensive, you're notbeing teachable.
SPEAKER_00 (04:00):
Welcome to the Awakened Anesthetist Podcast,
the first podcast to highlightthe CAA experience.
I'm your host, Mary Jean, andI've been a certified
anesthesiologist assistant forclose to two decades.
Throughout my journey andstruggles, I've searched for
guidance that includes my uniqueperspective as a CAA.
(04:21):
At one of my lowest points, Idecided to turn my passion for
storytelling and my belief thatthe CAA profession is uniquely
able to create a life by designinto a podcast.
If you are a practicing CAA,current AA student, or someone
who hopes to be one, I encourageyou to stick around and
experience the power of being inthe community filled with voices
(04:46):
who sound like yours, sharingexperiences you never believed
possible.
I know you will find yourselfhere at the Awakened Anesthetist
Podcast.
Welcome in.
Welcome everyone to AwakenedAnesthetist Podcast, and welcome
to our understanding the CAAprofession.
(05:07):
This is a little series on thepodcast where I take a deep dive
into some of the mysteries, someof the big questions behind this
profession.
So I'll link in the show notessome of the previous episodes,
things like how much does a CAAmake, what exactly is a CAA.
(05:28):
There's also one called What aCAA is not.
And this is just my attempt athelping those who are interested
in the profession, the pre-AAcommunity, or just perspectives
in general, get their feet wet,sort of understand from a CAA
what this profession entails,because we know how hard it is
(05:49):
to find really reliableinformation on this profession.
So I wanted to welcome myspecial guest today, who's going
to be helping me discuss allthings shadowing.
Her name is Sarah Whitfield.
She is a CAA as well as thecreator and founder of
AspiringCAA.com, which is aplatform that helps pre-AAs
(06:12):
become CAAs.
And I'm just really excited totalk all things shadowing with
her.
So welcome, Sarah, to AwakenAnnesotist.
SPEAKER_01 (06:22):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be on yourpodcast.
SPEAKER_00 (06:25):
Yeah.
And actually, Sarah has been onhere before, and we've actually
discussed a little bit ofshadowing before.
But um, and I will of courselink those, but because
shadowing is such a mysterywithin this profession, we
wanted to have a much longerconversation.
So if people are new to you,Sarah, people are totally new to
(06:45):
the CAA profession and just cameacross this podcast.
Can you just briefly describewho you are, um, what you're
doing within the CAA profession,and why you're specifically
qualified to talk so detailedabout shadowing?
SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
Absolutely.
So I'm Sarah Whitfield.
I am a practicing certifiedanesthesiologist assistant.
And I have been for about eightyears now.
And I am the founder ofaspiringCAA.com.
And that means that I'veinteracted with a lot of
pre-CAAs who are trying to getaccepted to CA school.
(07:21):
And a big part of that processis getting shadowing
opportunities.
So I have helped coach lots ofpeople through that process on a
step-by-step level because it'seasy to just give generic advice
like find shadowing, but whatare the actual steps that you
have to go through to do that?
And then on another level, too,I have admissions committee
(07:44):
experience.
I was on an admissions committeefor an AA program for five
years.
So I've actually seen how thatshadowing translates to an
application.
I've looked at the number ofhours that people have
shadowing.
I've looked at the descriptionsthat they've written to describe
those experiences.
I've read thousands of personalstatements that articulate how
(08:08):
and why that shadowing wasimpactful or meaningful to that
person.
So between the admissionscommittee experience and the
coaching experience, I have aunique perspective to really
dive into the ins and outs ofshadowing.
SPEAKER_00 (08:22):
Okay, so prospectives who are listening
or people who want to get intothis profession likely know that
shadowing is a requirement onthe CASA application to get into
each and every AA program.
Can you give us a littlebackground on why shadowing is
important, why it's asked, andwhat the student should be using
(08:44):
the shadow experience for?
SPEAKER_01 (08:46):
So I certainly remember my first time
shadowing.
I ended up shadowing at twodifferent hospitals before I
applied, which was great becausethen I got to see a couple
different settings and a coupledifferent hospitals because each
hospital does do things a littlebit differently.
And it is nice to see that.
So at this point, that is 10plus years ago.
(09:08):
But shadowing is still arequirement today for people who
want to get accepted to CIAschool.
And the reason it is required isbecause programs want students
who really know what they'regetting into.
They want students who areexcited to be there and who are
(09:28):
going to stay.
Right?
Programs don't want somebodywho's gonna show up, realize, oh
wait, I didn't really realizewhat I was signing up for, and
then withdraw from the program.
That's certainly what they whatthey don't want.
So they want staying power, theywant students who have a good
grasp on what they're gettingthemselves into.
And shadowing is really thefoundational way to do that.
(09:52):
Now, there are other other waysas well to get familiar with the
profession, but shadowingcertainly is the one that's
required and it's foundational,and it's the one that allows you
to actually see theresponsibilities, see the
workflow, see what is requiredof a CAA, and you know, see both
the pros and maybe the the thecons, just like there are with
(10:14):
any job.
Now I have read lots and lots ofapplications, probably thousands
of applications at this point.
And so I've seen what it lookslike for somebody to really
understand and know about theprofession.
And when I'm trying to assessthat from an admissions
(10:34):
committee standpoint, I'mcertainly looking at the
shadowing hours.
And something I do want tomention, it's not just about the
absolute hours.
I'm also looking for other waysthroughout the application that
this person is showing me thatthey know about this profession.
So I'm looking at the personalstatement.
Do they use, do they even callthe profession the right thing?
(10:57):
Are they using the properjargon?
Have they actually been payingattention and learning while
they were in their shadowingopportunity?
So, yes, shadowing is important.
It is foundational.
And it can still be true thatyou also need to go one step
further in your application andshow how that shadowing actually
(12:14):
affected you, what you actuallylearned from that shadowing
experience.
So we start with shadowing andthen we move into that process
of showing how shadowingactually made an impact on you.
And that's where we're reallymaking sure that you're
intentionally doing that in yourapplication.
That's where that kind of comesinto play.
(12:35):
And I think that's where I amuniquely qualified to offer some
perspective on that.
Since I have, like I mentioned,read many, many applications and
I've had people shadow me in theOR.
And like I mentioned, 10 plusyears ago, I was the one
shadowing in the OR.
So I kind of can come at it fromall the different perspectives.
(12:56):
So from a perspective student,from somebody who has had
shadowers in the OR, and fromsomebody who has actually looked
at applications at a very largevolume to really see and
understand how that shadowingshines through on the
application.
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
So leading up to this episode, you pulled your
audience and gave me a list ofall the most frequently asked
questions I've asked my audienceon Instagram and in my email
community.
I also specifically reached outto the pre-AA Network, which is
a new-ish network on Instagram.
It's at PreAA Network, as wellas the Pre-CAA Non-Traditional
(13:36):
Student Association, which isalso on Instagram and their
website.
Um, and they are at nt.preca.
And they sent me a whole batchof questions.
And so let's start off with arapid fire round, and we're
gonna do it as rapidly aspossible, knowing that I'm a
yapper.
And we will then follow up withsome much more in-depth answers.
(13:59):
So, okay, are we ready for therapid fire, Miss Sarah?
Let's do it.
Okay, here we go.
There's about 10-ish.
All right.
Which types of providers can apre-AA shadow for the hours to
count?
SPEAKER_01 (14:13):
They can shadow an anesthesiologist, a CAA, or a
CRNA.
SPEAKER_00 (14:18):
How many shadowing hours is enough?
The minimum that the schoolrequires.
How many shadowing hours isoverkill?
SPEAKER_01 (14:26):
More than 50.
SPEAKER_00 (14:28):
Should you have your mom DM a CAA on LinkedIn or
Instagram with a shadowingrequest?
SPEAKER_01 (14:35):
Absolutely not.
SPEAKER_00 (14:36):
If offered to sit during my shadowing experience,
like sit in a chair, should Isit down?
SPEAKER_01 (14:43):
Definitely.
SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
Is the shadowing requirement waived if I have
experience as an anesthesia techor some other in the operating
room position?
Not at most schools.
Are people grading me orassessing me when I shadow?
Absolutely.
Should I send a thank youfollow-up?
For sure.
What do I wear to show up as ashadow?
(15:05):
Probably scrubs.
Should I introduce myself topeople in the OR or wait until
the person I'm shadowing doesit?
Get clarity beforehand with yourpreceptor.
Love it.
Okay.
Those were so rapid.
Great job.
SPEAKER_01 (15:18):
It was hard.
It was so hard for me to berapid.
SPEAKER_00 (15:20):
I had more to say about all of them.
Uh yes, I know.
I knew that was gonna happen.
But okay, let's dive into someof the longer questions.
Again, these were submitted byour mutual communities and the
pre-AA network and thenon-traditional student
association of pre-AAs.
Um, okay, the number one mostasked question, and we're just
gonna start out with it becauseit lays the groundwork, is how
(15:43):
can I get shadowing hours?
SPEAKER_01 (15:47):
This is such an important question.
And the answer is pretty robustbecause there are a lot of
different ways to go aboutfinding shadowing.
And what I'll say is if you'vebeen trying one of the
techniques that I'm about tomention and you've not been
having success, that is your cueto pivot and try one of these
other techniques that I'm gonnashare.
Right.
(16:07):
So, number one, I would say workto leverage your network.
You might have healthcareproviders in your own circles.
So it might be a friend's parentor a family member.
So start asking around.
And it doesn't just have to be aCIA, you can start trying to get
(16:28):
in touch with anyone who hasties to the operating room.
For example, when I'm in theoperating room, I try to learn
everybody's name.
I try to be familiar witheveryone in the OR.
So if you can network withsomebody or find somebody in
your own circle who has ties tothe OR, like a circulating nurse
or a scrub tech or even asurgeon, they could introduce
(16:52):
you to an anesthesia provider.
So think about your broadernetwork.
Don't just ask yourself, well,do I know any CIAs?
Because the most likely answeris you probably you don't.
So I want you to start thinkingmore broadly.
The other thing I want you tostart thinking about when it
comes to leveraging your networkis reach out to upperclassmen
who are also pursuing anesthesiaor who are also pursuing the
(17:16):
healthcare field.
They likely have already gonethrough the shadowing process
and might have contacts thatthey would be willing to share
with you.
So that's a very, very powerfultip to reach out to
upperclassmen at youruniversity.
Another option is to startreaching out to local hospitals
and surgery centers.
(17:36):
When you reach out, yes, that'sgoing to be most likely a cold
reach out, so a cold call or acold email.
Sometimes these hospitals orsurgery centers have a shadowing
office that you can reach outto.
So I would recommend starting bysimply looking up their website
and seeing what kind of contactinformation you can find.
(17:58):
Other ways you can start tryingto get shadowing is through
networking in person.
So you could attend ananesthesia conference.
You could attend the Quad AAnnual Conference, which that
stands for the American Academyof Anesthesiologist Assistance.
They do have an annual meetingthat has hundreds and hundreds
of CIAs and prospective CAAs andCAA students.
(18:19):
And they also haverepresentatives from many, many,
many different hospitals.
So that's a great opportunity tosee which hospitals are allowing
shadowers and if you can getcontact information to set up
shadowing.
The FAA, the Florida Academy ofAnesthesiologist Assistants,
also has an annual meeting thatis a great place to meet
(18:41):
anesthetists.
You can also think about usingonline platforms like LinkedIn
and Facebook groups, but you canalso contact state academies.
State academies are present in alot of states, not every state
just yet, but a lot of states dohave state academies, and you
can find their websites.
(19:02):
I actually have an article on mywebsite that links to each and
every single CIA academywebsite, and you can email them,
introduce yourself, explain whyyou're interested in the CIA
profession, and explain that youwould love if they would be able
to help you find shadowing.
And then a few other tips that Ilike to mention are making sure
(19:25):
that you are willing to travel.
As much as we all wish thingswould be convenient and easy,
and just a 20-minute drive downthe road to the local hospital.
The reality is many applicantsare traveling to get shadowing.
And I'm not just talking abouttraveling an hour away.
I have seen applicants travelout of state to get their
(19:47):
shadowing hours.
By the way, if you do that, thatshould absolutely show up in
your application very clearly.
When I would look at anapplication, it was tremendously
impressive to me to see somebodygo to that length to fulfill the
shadowing requirement.
And the other tip that I'll sayis be persistent, be persistent.
(20:08):
If you keep getting no's, theonly way forward is to continue
asking and searching until youget a yes.
I know it can be discouraging ifthe first few people say no, but
please, please, please hear methat that is normal.
It is very normal for this to bea process that takes multiple
months.
(20:28):
So I do like to recommendstarting early.
And in fact, some of the mostcreative ways that I've seen
people get shadowing.
Um, I remember one person toldme, Sarah, I emailed 40 people
before somebody said yes.
And I was so impressed by thatpersistence.
Somebody else told me that theyhad an extended family member
(20:52):
who was getting a procedure atthe hospital.
And this pre-CAA asked if theycould attend in the pre-op area
with their family member.
And they ended up introducingthemselves to the
anesthesiologist and asking ifthey could schedule a time to
shadow.
And the anesthesiologist saidyes.
So that is Whoa, that'sdefinitely one of the most
(21:12):
creative ways that I've seensomebody find shadowing.
But hopefully, what you'reyou're taking away from this is
that there's a lot of differentways to try.
And so get creative and see ifyou can find a way that that
maybe you haven't thought of.
And one more technique that I'llI'll mention, although I
typically do like to recommendthis as a more of a last resort,
(21:36):
is recommend as uh reaching outto CAA programs.
So some CAA programs are willingto help coordinate shadowing
opportunities for you.
The reason I typically say as alast resort is just because they
can get overwhelmed with volume.
And it's great if you canachieve this requirement on your
own without needing the programto help you.
(21:57):
Hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (21:58):
I have follow-up questions.
I'm gonna be the person who'slistening that's like, wait a
little, like, let's backtrack.
Um, first, I wanted to say, justas like an overall message that
I hear you saying is that thisis a long game.
This is not like a couplequestions, a couple emails, and
you're there.
It may happen like that,especially if you have an
(22:19):
anesthesia provider in yourinner circle.
Um, but plan on it not happeninglike that.
And I love that you highlightedthe idea that let's say you
don't have an anesthesiaprofessional in your inner
circle, uh an anesthesiologist,a CRNA, or a CAA, but maybe you
have a surgeon or your cousin'sa scrub tech.
You could shadow your cousin,the scrub tech, set that as the
(22:43):
groundwork while you're there,have your cousin introduce you
to some anesthesia people, andthen start building that
relationship.
And we're talking this is goingto take probably months or a
year.
So if you are a pre-AA, you wantto start thinking about this how
early?
How, you know, far out should westart looking at shadowing if
we're pre-AA?
SPEAKER_01 (23:05):
I would say as soon as you realize you're a pre-CAA,
it really is not too early tostart.
It's not like these hoursexpire.
So if even if you're a freshmanand this is something you're
thinking about, I encourage youto go ahead and start getting
the shadowing hour hours.
Not only because it can take awhile to find shadowing
(23:28):
successfully, but also becauseshadowing is a technique that
you're going to use to confirmif it's the right profession for
you.
And while I love being a CAA, Ithink it's one of the best
professions out there.
At the same time, it is not foreverybody.
So if you're considering itearly on, like as a freshman, go
(23:48):
ahead and get that shadowingopportunity and it will either
confirm that this is what youwant to do, and it will give you
motivation to chase after it ashard as you can, or it's going
to show you maybe this isn't theright profession for me.
But now I have time to pivot andpick something else.
So I think there are reallymultiple reasons why it's great
to start getting shadowing assoon as you realize that you're
(24:10):
interested in anesthesia.
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
She lives in Idaho, but her mom had a church friend
who was an anesthesiologist whopracticed in California.
And if anyone is uh knowingsomewhat about the CAA
profession, you would probablyknow that CAAs are not in either
of those states, neither Idahonor California.
So she went through the hoopsbasically to hook up with this
(24:47):
anesthesiologist, like, youknow, have her mom hook up, make
the connection.
Then the California hospital'sprotocol was that she had to be
a volunteer at this Californiahospital before they'd even
consider her as a shadow.
So she had to go through all thevolunteering setup and classes.
And this meant she was flyingfrom Idaho to California, you
(25:08):
know, a lot.
And then finally, this resultedin enough volunteer hours that
she could then apply to be ashadow.
And then she shadowed thisanesthesiologist, I think for
maybe three days in a row.
So she lived with her parentsfor three days, shadowed as many
hours as she could, those threedays, and had an incredible
experience.
But the whole process tookmonths and her own money and her
(25:32):
traveling.
And just I was so impressed byher.
I'm impressed by her for manyreasons, but the fact that that
is the lengths you have to go tocan be discouraging, but also it
is possible.
Um, and if you put that mucheffort into it, what I'm hearing
you say as a former admissionscommittee member, that you will
(25:54):
then put that in your umapplication and it makes you
stand out.
It makes you look so committed.
Is that correct?
SPEAKER_01 (26:00):
Absolutely.
I think that example sums it upbeautifully, that it's not
always going to be easy.
But if you are committed togetting an acceptance, you're
gonna figure out a way to makeit work.
SPEAKER_00 (26:12):
Mm-hmm.
Love it.
Okay.
Um, I am gonna scroll throughour questions because I knew
this was gonna happen where someof the questions would get
answered in another question.
Um, but my brain lit up when youwere saying, okay, you could
reach out on social media, youcould email people or or someone
you know sent 40 emails.
So let's dive in a little bitinto what you're actually
(26:36):
saying.
We've already covered you, donot ever have your mom reach out
to a CAA or anyone in healthcareand say, how can my Suzy Q or
Pete Joe uh be a CAA shadow?
Um, so what do you do?
What do you say, and whichsocial media outlet maybe is the
best?
Is it email?
Is it LinkedIn?
Let's hear your thoughts.
SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
I tend to like LinkedIn and email.
I think those get the mosttraction and they feel a little
bit more professional than sayFacebook.
I think it's really important interms of what you include in the
message when you reach out.
So, first, it always needs tostart off with an introduction.
And that would include your fullname, your status.
(27:21):
So when I say status, I meanexplain that you are a pre-CAA
student, you go to school at X,Y, Z University, and you are a
junior.
So just kind of put some contextaround where you are either as a
student or as a non-traditionalapplicant.
And in the introduction, alsomention how you found them.
(27:44):
I always appreciate whensomebody was reaching out to me,
they kind of explain somebackground, like, oh, my friend
mentioned this, or I wasintentionally looking on
LinkedIn for CIAs and I cameacross your profile.
So just kind of give them thatbackground information.
It makes it feel warmer, itmakes it feel more intentional
when you include how you foundthem.
(28:08):
Then express genuine interest inthe profession.
So take a sentence or two, itdoesn't have to be super long,
but just briefly explain what isdrawing you to the CIA
profession.
It's okay if you don't knoweverything about it yet, right?
At this point, you probablyhaven't shadowed because you're
trying to find shadowing.
So don't let this part stressyou out.
It doesn't have to be somethingsuper deep, but just a sentence
(28:31):
or two about what got youinterested in exploring it
further.
And then come out and state veryclearly that you are reaching
out for a shadowing opportunity.
You don't have to be shy aboutthat.
Just say politely, I would loveto shadow you to further my
understanding of the CIAprofession.
(28:52):
And then what I would say isshare your availability and
above all, share that you areflexible.
So you don't want to just shareavailability because that could
be interpreted as a little bitdemanding.
But if you add that component ofthis is when I'm available, but
I will work around yourschedule.
(29:13):
When you say it like that, itcomes across as very
professional and not assuming ofthe other person's time.
So it's gonna make it easier forthem to say yes, if you include
your availability and includeyour flexibility.
Then I would say it's nice ifyou acknowledge that you
understand that there may besome red tape or some protocols
(29:34):
around the shadowing experience.
A lot of hospitals do haveprotocols.
They have paperwork, or theymight have training modules, or
you might need a temporarybadge.
There's so many things that ahospital might require of you.
You might have to show yourimmunization records.
I actually had to do that when Ishadowed 10 years ago.
So it's really important to justacknowledge that and say, hey,
(29:57):
I'm willing to do whatever,whatever it takes.
It shows that you know that thismight not be just an easy
process, but you're gonna bethere to stick it out because
you're committed.
So that shows shows yourcommitment.
And then I would say expressgratitude and and be polite.
So just thank them for theirconsideration, even though they
haven't responded yet.
(30:18):
You know, they're gonna take thetime to read your message.
So a simple thank you so muchfor taking the time to read this
and thank you for yourconsideration.
You don't have to pre-thank themfor letting you shadow them
because you don't know theanswer yet, but certainly it's a
polite gesture to show some somegratitude.
And then I would say sign offwith a professional signature
(30:39):
block.
I think that really elevatesyour message.
So your first and last name, andthen you could include your
contact information, so youremail address, your cell phone
number.
And if you wanted, you couldeven include your city or your
university just to give somecontext around who you are.
It's kind of easier to remember.
Um, I think when you structureit that way and you include each
(31:02):
of those items, it helps themfeel like, oh, I I kind of know
that know why this person isreaching out to me.
I know a little bit ofbackground on them.
I can tell they're serious, Ican tell that they have a
genuine interest in thisprofession.
And the likelihood of themsaying yes really does increase.
And I want to uh uh elaborate alittle bit on why I really
(31:23):
discourage parents from reachingout.
I personally have had multipleparents land in my inbox.
And the reason why I discouragethat is because it makes it seem
like the student isn't the onedriving the interest.
It makes it seem like the parentis the one interested in their
child becoming a CIA.
(31:43):
And that's not what I want tosee.
That's not what the admissionscommittee wants to see.
The admissions committee wantsto see that the applicant is
truly the one driven to become aCIA.
So that's just a little bit morebackground information.
Um, parents out there, if you'relistening, I love that you are
so invested in your child'ssuccess.
And at the same time, it'simportant to keep in mind that
(32:05):
they do need to be a little bitmore independent in this
process.
SPEAKER_00 (32:10):
You are so generous with that because I'm like, no,
do not know parents.
I know it's it's interesting toreceive, I get a lot of DMs from
parents, which is just even lessprofessional.
Like I do too.
SPEAKER_01 (32:25):
And I will be honest, I have started, you
know, politely mentioning that.
So, you know, I think it's goingto be received really well if
your student reached out becauseit's gonna really highlight
their interest.
SPEAKER_00 (32:37):
You are the nicest person I know.
Um, okay, let me ask somequestions to dive deeper and to
like really paint this picture.
So I think I want you toelaborate on some of those
behind the scenes.
Like, can a CAA, if you reachout to them and say, I want a
shadow, can that CAA who maybewants you to shadow them is okay
(33:02):
with it?
Can they drive an okay for youto shadow at their hospital?
Like, can they alone get thepermission for you to shadow?
Or are you always gonna have togo through some sort of HR, you
know, educational committee ofthe hospital to get your badge
and your immunization.
So talk to me about that in2025.
SPEAKER_01 (33:22):
It depends on the hospital.
I wish I could tell you auniversal rule or a universal
protocol, but the truth is eachhospital has the authority, has
the independence to decide whatit looks like at their location,
which means sometimes there is alot of red tape, there is a lot
of paperwork, there's a wholenother department that you're
(33:44):
gonna have to apply through.
At other locations, sometimes itis enough where if the
anesthetist vouches for you, youcan just show up.
And as long as you'reprofessional, there's there's no
problems.
So once again, it's reallylocation dependent.
And I would say the best thingto do is just ask when you're
reaching out to the personyou're shadowing.
(34:05):
And like I said, mention, hey,I'm willing to do whatever it
takes.
Any any paperwork, anyapplication process, I'm happy
to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (34:14):
Yes.
And uh thank you for explainingthat because I do think that's
one of the hard parts aboutshadowing is that there are
different protocols at everysingle hospital, and you, the
prospective AA student, does notknow that inner working.
It's like calling the WhiteHouse and being like, Hey, can I
come over?
And you know, maybe if you knewthe right person.
And they'd be like, come on in.
But generally, there's probablygoing to be some sort of red
(34:36):
tape now.
I would say just in 2025.
It's definitely been harder overthe years to get just that
walk-in experience to shadow,yeah, I'm going to bring my son
or daughter.
You know, that's that wasdefinitely my experience 20
years ago.
There was something else Iwanted to pull out from what you
said, which was, you know,little tips about how to appear
(34:57):
very intentional, veryprofessional when you reach out.
Even if it's a colder reach out,there's ways to warm up your
email, meaning, as you said, tosay how you know this person.
And I also love to see that thisis an email that's been sent
directly to me.
This is not a stock email thatwas sent out to 40 CAAs you
(35:18):
found on LinkedIn, but it is forme to me.
So if you offer things likewhere you are in the world
versus where I am, I'm in KansasCity.
So everyone who DMs me or emailsme and is like, hey, I'm from
Olatha, Kansas, and I found you.
And, you know, gives me a littlebit of that personalization.
It feels more like I'm helping afriend out.
(35:41):
Um, because at the end of theday, this is extra work that you
are asking a CAA to do for free.
And CAAs are oftentimes verywilling to help people who want
to be a CAA, who are diligentand intentional and
professional, and we feel likeare good, you know, examples of
what a CAA is, we want to helpthat person.
(36:03):
And you can look like thatperson in a really professional,
intentional reach out, even acold reach out.
Would you agree with all that?
SPEAKER_01 (36:11):
Absolutely.
I think that's a big part ofgetting a yes is coming across
as authentic and somebody whohas genuine curiosity.
And when you present yourselfthat way, somebody gets excited
to help you.
And so absolutely, I agree witheverything you just said.
You are more likely to get a yesif it feels like a personalized
(36:33):
message.
SPEAKER_00 (36:34):
And the other thing I wanted to say, just as some
tips, is that if you reach outto a CAA and maybe they give you
one little step forward.
Like, for example, someonereaches out to me and asks,
where can I shadow in the KansasCity area?
And I give them a list of threehospitals that they could
contact, you should absolutelyrespond back to me and say, Hey,
(36:56):
I followed up.
I called these three hospitals.
Here's where I am in theprocess.
Because every time you connectwith a CAA, you're embedding the
chance to, you know, meet themin the future at the Quad A or
at a different conference.
Or maybe I become, you know, onsome admissions committee.
Like this world is very, verysmall.
And you, if you have a CAAcontact, you want to keep that
(37:19):
contact warm.
I love how we're using marketingterms here, but you want to
reach back out to that CAA,thank them, even if they didn't
actually have you shadow, theyjust gave you information.
SPEAKER_01 (37:29):
I love that perspective because what I hear
you saying is that networking isimportant.
And I want you to think ofshadowing as a form of
networking, because the truth isit is.
And I think that idea reallyrolls into the question that we
also get of can I keep incontact with somebody that I
(37:50):
shadow?
And I think the the answershould always be yes.
Try your very, very best to keepin contact, continue networking.
Like you mentioned, send afollow-up message, even if you
couldn't shadow them, but theymaybe pointed you in the right
direction.
Mention, hey, thank you for thattip.
Because then I successfully gotshadowing.
And after you shadow somebody,um, you know, send a thank you
(38:12):
message or a handwritten thankyou note.
You know, you can feel out thesituation as to what you feel is
is appropriate.
Sometimes you have to read, readthe situation, read the room a
little bit.
But when you come back to thisperson that you shadow, when you
reach out to them again, itstarts to build a relationship.
And that's what networking is.
(38:32):
It's not just, oh, we met thatone time when I shadowed.
It's repeated interaction.
So give them updates about whatyour next step was, even if it
doesn't have anything to do withshadowing, even if it's, hey, I
just wanted to mention thatshadowing really solidified my
interest in this profession.
And I've decided to pursue it.
I've signed up to take OCEM oneand physics one.
(38:53):
You know, tell them about yourschedules.
Tell them about the next stepsthat you're taking to make your
dream of becoming a CAA areality.
And then that's going to open upa dialogue.
And that's how you keep theconversation going.
That's how you stay in touch.
SPEAKER_00 (39:08):
Yes.
Yes, yes, yes.
Okay.
I'm sure there's more to say.
There's always more to say, butlet's go on to this other great
question we got.
Um, this was sent actually byBrandon, who leads the non-TRAD
pre-CAA student association.
And the question is (39:25):
it's hard to come up with questions as the
pre-AA, as the perspective thataren't just superficial when
you're in the OR shadowing,especially if you are someone
who is unfamiliar withanesthesia.
So, what can you recommend tohelp them become more familiar
with the anesthesia setting, theclinical, the operating room
(39:47):
setting, and procedures so thatthe pre-AAs can ask, the
shadowers can ask goodquestions.
And this person also says hisgoal is to be able to ask deeper
questions and develop a betterunderstanding.
SPEAKER_01 (40:02):
This is a great question.
And the fact that you're askingthis question, I think already
shows your motivation and yourinterest.
And ultimately, that's what theperson who you're shadowing
wants to see, that you havegenuine interest and that you
are genuinely motivated.
I will say I have never beenasked a question from a shadower
where I thought, wow, that justwasn't deep enough.
(40:24):
Because I fully understand wherethey are in the process.
I understand that they are stilllearning the basics.
At the same time, I think it canbe helpful and set you apart if
you are intentional aboutpreparing before you, before you
come to a shadowing opportunity.
So you can start doing a littlebit of your own research about
(40:44):
what are the responsibilities,what is the workflow of being a
CAA?
You could read articles, youcould watch YouTube videos, you
could read a very basicanesthesia book.
I'm not saying read a textbook.
That's that's too much.
That's too much to digest atthis point, but just learn some
basic terminology, learn some ofthe basic flow, like what does
(41:05):
induction mean?
What does maintenance mean?
What does emergence mean?
What are some of these toolsthat we use to manage the
airway?
What are some of the routinedrugs that we use for almost
each and every case?
So if you start there, you'regonna go to your shadowing
opportunity and recognize someof these things and then be able
to ask questions based off whatyou already know, even if it's
(41:28):
just a little bit.
So I do want to take thepressure off a little bit
because kind of what I heardfrom that question was you felt
a lot of pressure to ask justthe right questions.
And I want to reframe that alittle bit where when somebody
comes to shadow me, I'm not I'mnot over-analyzing their
questions.
What I ultimately want to see isthat there's genuine interest
(41:50):
and they are doing their verybest to engage with what is
happening in front of them.
So, you know, those questionscan be about the anesthetic
itself.
And you can take thatopportunity too to just learn
about the CIA's perspectiveabout being a CIA.
So that's a great time to askabout schedule or um or
lifestyle questions.
(42:10):
So there's a lot of differentquestion types that you can ask,
but like I said, take thepressure off yourself.
Just try to think of it as howcan I show this person that I'm
genuinely interested?
SPEAKER_00 (42:21):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And what I hear you saying, andwhat is true for me as a
shadowing preceptor is that I'mimpressed when you're genuine,
you're interested, and you'recurious.
I don't so much care about thespecific pharmacological
question you're asking me ifyou're like came up with some
really quote unquote goodquestion.
Um, yeah, but you are beingassessed, but you're being
(42:44):
assessed in this um, you know,like larger way.
And also a couple of things Iwanted to throw in there.
Um, since I have started doingpre-AA Matters, which is a
professionalism course for thepre-AA community, I've been
interacting much more withpre-AAs.
And there's a book going aroundwithin that community called
(43:04):
Anesthesia Made Easy.
I'm I know you're nodding yourhead.
I know you've heard of it.
Um, it was around when I was,you know, way back when as well,
but it's like less than 200pages.
It is super digestible.
It is meant to be sort of aprimer to your first step into
an anesthesia rotation inmedical school.
(43:26):
And it is a very, very good,solid resource to read before
your first day of shadowing.
Um, and then I also wanted tojust say that um so much of what
Sarah's talking about and somuch of what is perceived as a
shadower by your preceptor isemotional intelligence and
interpersonal communicationskills.
(43:47):
It doesn't really have much todo with your anesthesia
knowledge.
It matters, you know, can you bea foot away from me and make
conversation and then and notfeel like stalled or not feel
super awkward?
Um, can you read the room, whichis a phrase Sarah used and is a
very common phrase inanesthesia?
Like, can you feel thatemotional temperature when it is
(44:10):
appropriate to ask questions andwhen it is more appropriate for
you to kind of drop back ifthere's something, you know,
more serious going on in theoperating room or if it's more
intense moment.
And I would love to hear yourperspective, Sarah, on when is
it appropriate to ask questionsand when is it not, and how do I
read the room?
Like how do I develop thatemotional intelligence in an
(44:31):
operating room if I've neverbeen in an operating room?
SPEAKER_01 (44:33):
I love this question because I have such a powerful
tip.
When it comes to being ananesthesia provider, if I am
standing up and actively doingtasks, that's not a good time to
ask me a question.
I might be very focused onputting in the endotracheal
(44:54):
tube.
I might be very focused onputting in the IV or putting in
the arterial line.
So that might be a high taskload time for me.
But once I get settled and if mypatient is stable and you see me
sit down, that is the perfecttime to ask questions.
So I want your rule of thumb tobe if the person I'm shadowing
is sitting down, that's probablya low task load time where they
(45:18):
have the capacity to bothmonitor the patient and field
some questions.
And I will say it can't hurtjust to clarify and say, hey, I
I prepared a few questions,would now be a good time?
That just shows so muchemotional intelligence,
situational awareness, justgetting that clarity before you
(45:38):
start peppering them withquestions.
SPEAKER_00 (45:40):
Mmm, say it again in the back or for the back.
Um, yes, I uh speak to this inpreAA matters about how to set
yourself up just from the momentyou meet your preceptor, your
shadowing preceptor is to have adebrief.
You know, say who you are.
And, you know, there's varyinglevels of comfort.
Have you met this person never,or maybe just emails?
(46:03):
So introducing yourselfappropriately, saying where you
are in your journey, as well asyour goals.
I love to have my shadowingstudent give me their goals for
the day.
And your goal may be I havenever set foot in an operating
room before.
This is my very first time.
My goal is to understand whatthe anesthesia machine is and
(46:24):
how you move about theanesthesia machine and the
patient during the beginning andend of cases or whatever it is.
You know, that's that's theresearch on your end that you're
gonna have to do, coming up withyour goals.
And then as you get more andmore shadowing, you can try to
find those deeper and deeper, asthe question had been asking,
like those deeper and deeperaspects to the profession that
(46:47):
are going to allow you, theshadower, to choose the CAA
profession because you want tobe a CAA.
That's the goal of shadowing isto know that you want to do this
profession.
And that's what the admissionscommittee also wants to see from
you, right?
To see that your shadowingexperience solidified your
understanding that you want tobe a CAA.
(47:08):
Can you say any more about thatand like using your shadowing
experience on your application?
SPEAKER_01 (47:13):
Yes, I I love what you just said.
I kind of want to reiteratesomething you said about kind of
having a briefing beforehand tolist your goals that shows so
much initiative.
And I love to see initiative inapplicants.
And the the little the briefingor the planning beforehand that
you mentioned, I actually do theexact same thing with my CIA
(47:37):
students when I'm preceptingthem in the morning.
I say my expectations for theday.
And I ask, especially if they'rea second-year student, what kind
of goals do you have?
What do you need to work on?
Do you need more A-lines?
Do you need this case type orthat case type?
Do you want more uh moreopportunity to function
independently?
(47:57):
Do you want to work on charting?
Right.
So I think that if you canalready show those things as a
shadower, it's going to be agood indicator, a positive
indicator that you are alsogoing to be successful as a
student.
And then to address the secondpart of that question as to how
does this start to show up onthe application?
How do we translate what you sawinto something positive,
(48:23):
something that makes you standout on the application?
And I think there are a fewdifferent areas.
So on your CASA application,there's an experience section
and you'll select anesthesiashadowing, and then you actually
get to write a description aboutit.
So if you've already come upwith goals each time you
shadowed, those are great thingsto reflect back to and ask
yourself, did I achieve thatgoal?
(48:43):
Is that something that I couldwrite down in the description?
So if your goal was to get morefamiliar with the anesthesia
machine and how the anesthetistinteracts with the anesthesia
machine, part of the descriptioncould be talking about what you
learned about the anesthesiamachine.
Or if your goal was to see ageneral, a Mac, and a regional,
wow, how powerful would it be tobe able to write about that in
(49:06):
the description section thatyou've seen all the different
types of anesthesia.
And then this can also bereflected in your personal
statement as well.
So, you know, part of thatpersonal statement is really
explaining why you want to be aCAA and to fully explain why you
want to be one, of course, youhave to have a good
understanding of who they areand what they do.
(49:28):
And that's where you can draw inthose anecdotes, those stories
that you actually saw andwitnessed in the OR and how they
affected you.
So I always like to emphasizethat you don't want it just to
sound like a story that you'rereporting on, right?
You're not, you're not areporter, you're sharing about
yourself.
So always tie your shadowingexperience back to how it
(49:50):
affected you, how it grew you,how it impacted you.
SPEAKER_00 (49:54):
So good.
Okay.
We have hit so many high points.
I just want to review to makesure there's nothing left on
that pocket of questions.
Uh Miss Kendall, Miss KendallGregg on Instagram asked this
question.
And Sarah, you're uniquelycapable of answering it.
(50:16):
So let me ask you.
She asked, what types ofquestions are important to ask
during shadowing and bonus if ithelps in your interviews as
well.
And we've kind of touched onsome of this already, but I
would love to that second part.
What is maybe an interviewquestion that a student would
receive that would point back totheir shadowing where they would
(50:39):
pull in their shadowingexperience?
SPEAKER_01 (50:41):
So when it comes to interviews, applicants should
anticipate potentially receivingtechnical questions, meaning
questions that have to do withanesthesia itself.
And that is the perfect time tobring in those experiences.
So when it comes to being askeda technical question, the first
thing I want you to hear is thatit is not make or break if you
(51:02):
know the content of the answer.
Okay.
But what give us an example?
SPEAKER_00 (51:07):
Can you give us an example just so we're on the
same?
SPEAKER_01 (51:09):
Sure, sure.
So let's say you're in aninterview and you're asked,
could you explain to me theimportance of pre-oxygenation
prior to induction?
So that that might be a questionthat you would get.
And that's a very basic levelquestion.
And if you've shadowed, thatwould be certainly something you
have seen.
And it would be great if you,you know, if you knew the
(51:31):
answer.
But what I want to get across iseven if you don't know the
answer in depth, just at leastattempt to answer the question.
So you could sit start off with,from what I saw was shadowing, I
remember that they did put themask over the patient's face
every time.
And I saw that they turned theoxygen up.
Now I I don't remember themspecifically mentioning it, but
(51:52):
it would make sense to me.
Or I would think that it wouldbe important for the patient to
have uh a lot of oxygen in theirlungs, because I know that there
might be a period where they'renot breathing before they put
the breathing tube in.
So, right, I explain that invery much not medical jargon.
That's not how I would explainit if I were teaching in a
(52:13):
classroom.
That's not how I would conversewith my students in the OR.
But what I'm trying to show youis you can at least try to
answer the question, even ifit's not too super technical,
right?
There weren't a lot of technicalwords in there, but it showed
me, hey, this person shadowed.
They're clearly trying to recallwhat they observed.
And so, from my perspective as aadmissions committee member, I
(52:35):
think, well, I can teach themall the technical jargon.
Yes.
But what I what I can see isthat they're interested, they
were paying attention, they'reum, you know, they're they're
good at observation, and thoseare all powerful things.
And one more kind of commentwhile we're getting into this
idea of interview.
If you just get the answer flatout wrong, that's okay.
I've seen so many people, I'veaccepted people, I've said yes
(52:57):
to people, been excited toaccept people who have gotten an
answer wrong, but they wereextremely teachable and showed
curiosity when I corrected themand told them the right answer.
And so I think that does tieback to shadowing because we
really want to see curiosity andgenuine interest.
So even if you get it wrong andyou're corrected, just say
something like, thank you somuch for sharing that with me.
(53:20):
I'm excited to go and read moreabout that.
SPEAKER_00 (53:23):
Oh my God.
Thank you so much for sharingthat with me.
I'm excited to go home and readmore about that.
Just say exactly that if you getit wrong.
If you get your interviewquestion wrong.
Also, when you're an AA student,let's talk about transferable
skills.
Everything we're talking aboutas a shadowing student will be a
transferable skill to yourexperience as an SAA in terms of
(53:46):
asking good questions, showingcuriosity, how to show up with
intention and perspective, evenif you're totally new to an
environment, which you will beconstantly as an SAA.
So, all good things.
If you can master this as ashadower, you are well on your
way to success in AA school.
Okay, I think that is going towrap up our general set of
(54:10):
questions.
Sarah and I are going to stay onafter this, and we're going to
record some bonus material,which will be coming out in
another couple weeks.
And we're going to talk aboutwhat CAA preceptors want you,
the shadower, to know before youcome into the operating room.
So we got so many questionsabout, you know, of course,
(54:33):
prepping and when can I askappropriate questions and where
should I stand and all of thosesorts of things?
And because they're all linkedtogether and because it also
takes a CAA perspective, um,Sarah and I are going to talk
just like colleague to colleagueabout it.
And so you can find that bonuscontent here in a couple of
weeks.
Um, Sarah, if preAAs want towork with you, follow up with
(54:55):
you, they need future guidancefrom you, what is the best place
to go to get in contact and tolearn more?
SPEAKER_01 (55:02):
I invite you to connect with me right on my
website.
Head to aspiringca.com.
You will find my offering.
So you'll see how you can getconnected with me.
If you would like me to coachyou through the process of
applying to CAA school.
And if you have a follow-upquestion about that coaching,
you can press the contact tab onmy website and that'll send an
(55:26):
email right to me.
SPEAKER_00 (55:28):
And if there is like one free resource that you want
anyone who's listening to likego first, go right now, what
would that be on your website?
SPEAKER_01 (55:36):
Ooh, so go to the resource tab.
And the very first resource thatI have listed is a recorded Zoom
interview of me with a pre-CAAwho was asking me basically the
same questions that I get overand over again, which is great,
but they're recorded and they'reon demand and there's no
paywall.
(55:56):
You don't have to put in youremail even.
You just hop right on there andit's like I am just giving you
all the info for people who areinterested in this profession
and for people who are trying toget answers to kind of the basic
questions when you're firstexploring a career path.
SPEAKER_00 (56:15):
So, not necessarily about shadowing, just like all
things CAA.
This is my first contact.
Watch this on-demand video.
SPEAKER_01 (56:22):
Yes.
Yes.
Amazing.
And even if you scroll down too,you'll see some shadowing
resources too, like how to prep.
And I have a shadowing trackeron there too.
SPEAKER_00 (56:30):
Amazing.
All right.
Well, thank you so much.
And I hope everyone feels muchmore resourced and prepared to
shadow.
We know it's kind of a wildworld out there and it's really
difficult.
And we just encourage you, ifyou're really serious about the
CAA profession, to just put thework, put the effort in.
It will pay off.
The profession is as amazing asit seems.
(56:52):
And Sarah and I really umencourage you to keep going.
So we'll talk soon, folks.
Thanks for listening to AwakenedAnesthetist.
If this episode resonated withyou, share it with a CAA friend,
(57:14):
an AA student in your life, or aperspective, and let them know
why you loved it.
It's the most important thingyou can do to support this
podcast and its mission.
You can always find more ways toconnect with me and this CAA
community atawakenedanesthetist.com,
including an invitation to joinseason five Mindful Connections.
(57:38):
These are free virtualgatherings open to anyone in our
Awakened Anesthetist community.
And while you're scrolling thewebsite, check out my trusted
CAA partners who make thispodcast possible with a special
thank you to my season fivesponsor, Harmony Anesthesia
Staffing.
Talk soon.
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