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In Part 6 I'm pulling back the drape to share what it's really like hosting a shadower as a CAA.
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- Pt. 4 How Much Do CAAs Make?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (04:42):
Before we dive into part two of my conversation with
Sarah Whitfield fromaspiringca.com, I wanted to make
sure you're all caught up.
So if you've missed part one ofthis larger shadowing
conversation where Sarah and Icovered her journey, what
aspiring CAA is all about, andthe foundational shadowing
mindset every pre-AA shouldhave, then go back and listen to
(05:06):
that first.
It's linked for you in the shownotes.
Now, in today's episode, we'retaking you behind the scenes as
two practicing CAAs who havetaken more than 100 combined
shadowers in our years.
We're giving you an honest, openlook at what it actually feels
like to host a shadower, what weappreciate, what makes the
experience smoother, and yes,what we really wish shadowers
(05:30):
would not do.
If you've ever wondered what'sgoing through a CAA's mind when
you walk into their OR, this isthe episode you want to hear.
And because Sarah and I want tomake sure you're supported as
much as possible on your pre-Ajourney, I created a totally
free shadowing guide to go withthis two-part series.
You can grab that in the shownotes as well.
(05:50):
No cost, no catch, justsomething I hope will make your
path a little clearer and a lotless stressful.
All right, let's get back intoit.
Here's part two of how to landand leverage those darn
shadowing hours.
Welcome to the AwakenedAnesthetist Podcast, the first
(06:12):
podcast to highlight the CAAexperience.
I'm your host, Mary Jean, andI've been a certified
anesthesiologist assistant forclose to two decades.
Throughout my journey andstruggles, I've searched for
guidance that includes my uniqueperspective as a CAA.
At one of my lowest points, Idecided to turn my passion for
(06:32):
storytelling and my belief thatthe CAA profession is uniquely
able to create a life by designinto a podcast.
If you are a practicing CAA,current AA student, or someone
who hopes to be one, I encourageyou to stick around and
experience the power of being ina community filled with voices
(06:53):
who sound like yours, sharingexperiences you never believed
possible.
I know you will find yourselfhere at the Awakened Anestetist
Podcast.
Welcome in.
Welcome to a little bonusconversation between me and
Sarah Whitfield, who is apracticing CAA as well as the
(07:14):
founder of AspiringCAA.com.
We wanted to have you all beable to listen in to two CAA
preceptors who take students, AAstudents, as well as shadowers
in the operating room and havedone so for years.
We wanted to just share somebehind the scenes of what it
(07:34):
feels like as the CAA in thatdynamic so that you, the
shadower, can listen in and be alittle bit more prepared, be a
little bit more comfortable, andmaybe avoid some pitfalls to
make sure that your shadowingexperience is as positive for
both of you, the CAA, and foryou, the shadower, as possible.
So welcome back, Miss SarahWhitfield.
(07:56):
I am excited to continue ourconversation.
SPEAKER_01 (07:59):
I'm excited to get into it.
This is a really good topic.
SPEAKER_00 (08:02):
I know.
I I'm I love sharing behind thescenes of all things.
So let's start off.
Um, someone had asked what arethe worst experiences that we've
had with shadowers and what arethe best.
So let's start off with thenegative first because that's a
little juicier.
So is there any lasting negativeimpression that a shadowing
(08:24):
experience has left on you?
And let's hear all the details.
SPEAKER_01 (08:28):
Something that is coming to mind is a student who
shadowed me.
And at, you know, we had a greatday together.
At the end of the day, thisperson thanked me and went on
their way.
And then a couple of days later,I got an email with multiple,
multiple shadowing forms thatthis person wanted me to print
(08:49):
off and sign an email back.
So to put a little contextaround this, each CIA program
requires their own shadowingform.
And don't get me started on thistopic.
If it were up to me, I wouldmake each program, you know,
have the same form.
So it's just one form and it'sgood for each program, but
(09:10):
that's just not how it is.
So it was just a lot of work onmy end to have to print, I'll
figure out how to print off 10forms, sign them, scan them,
email them back.
So that left a negativeimpression on me because it
tremendously added to myworkload to accommodate this
shadower.
Um, so you know, to flip it, howcould that have been positive?
(09:31):
That negative could have beenturned into a positive.
This person had come preparedand anticipated and had already
printed off all the forms theywanted me to sign and had those
ready to go at the end of theday so I could just knock it out
and not have to worry aboutprinting and uploading and
emailing back.
SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
I cannot believe you did that.
That was very gracious of you.
Um, I'm just wondering if thatstudent was a good shadower.
Like, did you have a goodshadowing experience?
And then this last interactionkind of left a bad taste in your
mouth, or was the kind ofwriting on the wall with this
person?
SPEAKER_01 (10:04):
It was a very positive shadowing experience.
Overall, I really had nothingnegative to say until a couple
days later when I was printingoff lots of shadowing forms.
SPEAKER_00 (10:15):
Yes.
So probably just like an air, amistake on their end that they
didn't realize.
And now, you know, they have tobacktrack.
So yeah, that's um unfortunate.
And I just think you just haveto own your mistake.
Kind of like in AA school, ifyou get a wrong answer or your
interview, you get a wronganswer, you just say, Thank you
for sharing.
I will do better next time.
(10:36):
Yeah, just being reallytransparent with this, the error
that you made and how much extrawork you're putting on the
preceptor.
Um, okay, any lasting positiveexperience, Miss Sarah, that
you'd love for people toduplicate?
SPEAKER_01 (10:50):
Yes, I love punctuality.
So it's always a really positiveimpression when the the
rendezvous point, the meetingpoint that we agree on in the
morning and the time, when Ishow up there, I love for the
shadower to be waiting for me sothat I just can swing by that
location and get our daystarted.
The anesthesia profession isvery punctual.
(11:11):
So you want to make sure thatyou know you're always on time
and and not causing any sort ofdelay.
So that's always a reallypositive impression for me when
somebody is punctual.
Um, and then it's always reallypositive too for me when I see
their attitude being positive,when I see them being excited to
be there when they do havequestions.
(11:33):
Um, so it can get a little bitawkward.
So this is kind of going back tothe negative.
I've had it where while we'resitting down and I just they're
not talking and I'm I then I'mtrying to make conversation.
I say, you know, do you have anyquestions?
And they say, no, not really atthis time.
That can be kind of discouragingbecause I'm thinking, oh, I'm
excited to share about the ACAA.
What could I teach them?
(11:54):
And then it kind of feels likeI'm shut down.
And so that can be discouraging.
But on the flip side, to kind ofaddress the positive side of it,
I love when I get people inthere who do say, yes, tell me.
Tell me about how you decidedhow to manage that airway.
Tell me about why you use thedrugs that you used.
Tell me about this or that, evenopen question, open, open-ended
(12:15):
questions like tell me aboutfill in the blank.
I think that's a good way justto get the conversation going.
And then it lets your preceptorkind of take it in the direction
that they want.
So it's really always positiveto me when somebody gets me
talking and excited about myjob.
SPEAKER_00 (12:29):
Yes.
Yes.
And and CAAs love their job.
Most CAA, well, I really havenever met a CAA who does not
like their job, does not likeanesthesia.
And so if you get us talkingabout the thing we love, you're
gonna have a great experienceand you're gonna feel that
connection with your preceptor,with the CAA, and be able to go
a little bit deeper with yourpersonal questions.
(12:52):
Like some of the my bestexperiences are when I leave the
interaction and feel like I'vegained a new friend.
And that's mostly becausethey're asking questions of me.
Why did I choose the CAAprofession?
What do I love about it?
And, you know, almost flippingthe role, like questions that
they would receive in theirinterview, they're kind of
(13:13):
asking me.
Um, and that can build somestrong rapport.
And then my best experiences arewhen just the curiosity is
palpable, like oozing off of theshadower student.
So I um appreciate a shadowerwho is interested in the surgery
(13:33):
as well as the anesthesia.
Anesthesia is um when we say theword anesthesia, oftentimes when
we're in the operating room, weare referring to like a what,
six foot by six foot space,maybe.
I mean, just like a very smallanesthesia space.
Um, and you'll be back therewith your preceptor with me.
(13:54):
And oftentimes there is somelike, you know, I'm standing or
you're sitting, or vice versa,which is why we got the seated
question, because like whereyour butt actually is is a real
thing in anesthesia.
Um, and so it can get a littleclose quarters.
And if the conversation isn'tflowing, it can feel awkward for
me, the CAA, as well as for you,the shadower.
(14:16):
And so I love a moment when theum shadower maybe can have some
um situational awareness andthey'll ask me to watch the
surgery, especially if it's areally long case, a really long
day, it can give us some breaksfrom talking to each other
nonstop and can give you sometime to formulate questions and
it can give your CAA a breakbecause again, having a shadower
(14:40):
while we love it is extra workthat we are not being paid for.
And sometimes the CAA just wantsto take a break.
And so you watching the surgeryand just being engaged and
interested, you know, is just abreak for everyone while you're
also learning and looking supercurious and engaged.
So those are always my bestexperiences when the person
looks curious and they also canread the room energetically.
(15:03):
Um and again, you know, it it'sum it's kind of a little bit
awkward.
It's gonna be a little bitawkward.
It just really is, which is whythat debrief is so important in
the beginning of a day to kindof lay that groundwork between
you and the preceptor.
Uh, interesting, I don't havephysical shadowers as much in
the operating room anymorebecause I'm only in the
(15:24):
operating room a day a week.
And um, I often have afirst-year AA student.
And so I don't have then ashadower as well.
And so my interaction right nowwith shadowers is often in the
cold reach out or the, you know,trying to make a warm reach out.
And so, yeah, just the negativelasting experience I've had
aside from the mothers, well, Idon't know why it's not fathers,
(15:47):
but always mothers, reaching outis just when I can feel from the
reach out, from the cold callthat the the preAA is wanting
me, the CAA, to take my time tomake their life easier.
And whether that's the actualsentiment, the reach out feels
that way.
Like you haven't done enoughwork on your end to kind of lead
(16:09):
me into helping you.
So, for example, in my area, ifyou were to reach out to me and
be like, hey, I know I canshadow at Liberty Hospital and
St.
Luke's on the Plaza, I know thatyou work at St.
Luke's on the Plaza.
I've tried to contact theeducational department.
I can't find the number.
Is there a contact that youknow?
And so all I have to do to helpyou is give you this one answer
(16:30):
to this one problem, reallymakes my life easier, offers you
help and also establishes arelationship where you're not
asking me to come shadowimmediately, but you're building
that rapport, that bond.
And the shadowing experiencesthat I have facilitated have
come from pre-AAs who facilitatea relationship from that
(16:51):
groundwork.
Um, because at my hospital, it'sa big process.
SPEAKER_01 (16:55):
I absolutely agree with everything you just said.
That is so important to keep inmind that you want to reduce the
friction for the person thatyou're asking to shadow as much
as possible.
It is more work for them.
And I honestly don't think thata lot of pre-CAAs understand
that because they see all thework from their perspective.
Like, sure, look at all thiswork it is for me.
(17:18):
And the truth is it is a lot ofwork for both can be true.
It can be a lot of work for theperson who's trying to find
shadowing, and it can be a lotof work for the person who's
trying to make it happen andfacilitate it.
And so it's always important tokeep both perspectives in mind.
And I wanted to share similarlythat I don't really take
shadowers right now either,simply because ever since COVID,
(17:39):
my hospital has really gottenvery strict on who can shadow.
And in fact, the only peoplethat can shadow are people who
are currently employed.
So, for example, I've had apatient care tech shadow me, but
that was because she's worked atour hospital for six months
already.
So I can't, I can't just say yesto the person who messages me
from LinkedIn.
(18:00):
What I will say though is mostCAAs know other CIAs.
So don't see somebody who saysno as, you know, oh, well,
that's that's a complete deadend.
You want your message to land insuch a way where they would be
comfortable referring you tosomebody else in their network.
Yes.
So that's that's something thatI really like to focus on is
(18:21):
that your message should makethem so comfortable with you and
it should speak about yourprofessionalism and how you
communicate so powerfully thatthey would be comfortable
introducing you to somebodyelse.
Because if it comes across asunprofessional to me, I will not
refer you to a colleague becauseI will be embarrassed.
If if my colleague texts me andis like, whoa, that person that
(18:43):
you sent me to shadow was late,did not seem interested, was on
their phone in the OR, I wouldbe mortified if I had sent
somebody like that to one of myfriends.
Um, and they would give me ahard time about it too.
So I I'm just I'm not going todo it.
If I don't feel really stronglythat this person is going to
represent themselves extremelyprofessionally, then you know,
(19:07):
I'm not going to be willing torefer out.
SPEAKER_00 (19:09):
Um, let's talk about shadowers that have made
mistakes.
So things like touchingsomething that's sterile, that's
not supposed to be touched, orum maybe, you know, um doing
like a non-obvious mistake, likeoverstepping a verbal boundary
with a patient or with a surgeonor the anesthesiologist.
(19:30):
Any examples that that youremember that you want to share?
SPEAKER_01 (19:35):
I'm trying to think.
Um, I kind of have thepersonality where I try not to
hold on to the the bad thingsthat people do.
Um I I I am kind of vaguely nowrecalling something that um, you
know, maybe didn't go exactly asI would have wanted it to with a
shadower, and that was in thepre-op area.
(19:56):
And I started to do the theinterview and I briefly
introduced the person who wasshadowing me just so that
everybody in the room is awareand feels included.
(21:00):
And it's just respectful toalways make sure that the
patient knows everybody who'sgoing to be in the room.
That's the appropriate thing todo.
Um, and I was trying to do mypre-op interview where I get
very important information.
I review allergies, I reviewpast medical history, do an
airway exam.
And the student ended upinterrupting it a little bit and
(21:20):
having their own conversationwith the patient.
And I will say though, it wasinitiated by the patient.
The patient, you know, was like,oh, you're interested in
anesthesia and and started thatconversation.
But I ended up feeling a littleawkward having to cut it off
because the student just keptgoing on and on, which I could
tell the student was excited tobe there and that was great.
But it just really at that pointwas not appropriate to delay my
(21:42):
interview because they'rewaiting for me to finish my
interview to roll back.
So, you know, I had wished thatstudent would have read the room
and give a very given a verybrief answer so that I could
jump back to what I was doing.
So, you know, whether or not I'dcall that a mistake, I'd
probably hesitate to use thatword.
You know, I I would feelcomfortable saying this person
didn't really read the room orthe situation very well, though.
(22:05):
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:06):
And that is the hard part, is that so many quote
unquote mistakes are just notreading the room appropriately.
Um, and uh I will offer that I Ihad more of a true, like I gave
that sterility suggestionbecause that in fact did happen
to me.
So when you are in an operatingroom, there are non-sterile
(22:27):
areas, areas that you can touchwithout being donned sterile,
like with sterile gloves and agown.
And there are areas that youhave to be sterile.
And generally, this is ingeneral, the sterile areas are
draped in blue.
Um, and so it's just somethingreally important to understand
when you're coming into shadow,like what's sterile and not
(22:48):
sterile.
You can watch YouTube videos,like this is a very basic
concept.
But I had a shadower whoaccidentally touched something
blue and then tried to say theydidn't touch it, which it was
like something kind of furtheroff from the field.
But you know, your naturalinclination when you are yelled
at or you are told you didsomething wrong is to become
(23:11):
defensive.
And unfortunately, inanesthesia, um mistakes do
happen on various levels.
I have touched things that aresterile and I and I was not
supposed to touch.
And you have to so activelyfight the feeling of hiding that
as a secret or not tellingsomeone or like, hey, maybe no
(23:34):
one saw me, so I don't have tosay anything.
Like our human brains want us tohide that information to avoid,
you know, getting in trouble.
And a a CAA can never hideinformation like that.
And so seeing the shadowerbecome so defensive, again,
understandable, but likeverbally defending themselves
(23:55):
was just a huge red flag.
So I want shadowers who arelistening to hear me say
mistakes happen.
You don't know what you don'tknow.
You can kind of help smooth out,like accidentally do something
wrong by a nice debrief withyour shadowing preceptor in the
morning.
Like, hey, I've never been in anoperating room before.
(24:18):
I really want to make sure I'mnot in your way, that I don't
interrupt the flow, that I knowwhen to ask questions.
Here's what I'm thinking.
Does that work for you?
Like phrasing it like that.
Um, but still, sometimes thingsmay happen and you just have to
instantly own up to it.
There's just no other way aroundit.
You just have to own up to themistake or mishap or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (24:37):
Thoughts.
I really like that you broughtthat up.
I think defensiveness is one ofthe top ways to disqualify
yourself as a competitivecandidate.
Yes.
Defensiveness is going to causeso much trouble in your
anesthesia training as well.
So if you're defensive, you'renot being teachable.
(25:01):
Becoming an anesthesiaprofessional requires a lot of
humility because you will becorrected and guided and molded
by not only your faculty membersat your program, but each and
every preceptor you have, andthat will be a different person
each and every day.
So if you're a shadower andyou're already starting off
defensive, that is not a goodindicator that you would one,
(25:22):
even get accepted.
But if you did get accepted, youwould have a very rough time in
school if you hold on to thatdefensiveness.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (25:31):
Yes.
Okay, that got that off mychest.
So and it's just such abeautiful teaching moment.
Um, if you are teachable, thatlike, hey, this is gonna happen
in AA school, and how are yougoing to respond?
Um, because I still makemistakes as a CAA.
I just put a EKG lead like oversomething that was sterile under
the drape.
(25:51):
I was like trying to get a newEKG lead on, and I like plop,
plopped it right on the edges oflike the sterile abdomen.
And they were like, What's this?
I'm like, well, that was medoing something wrong.
I'm so sorry.
And you fix it and you move on.
But okay.
Um, let's see here.
Let's talk about the situationwhere maybe a shadower has
(26:12):
gotten in.
This has happened to me where ashadower got approved.
They um maybe met their minimumeight-hour requirement, and now
they keep coming back and backand back and back to build more
and more hours to theoreticallylook better on the application.
Break down for me from yourperspective as a CAA, like
should they still keep comingback to the same provider?
(26:34):
How many hours do they need, etcetera, et cetera?
SPEAKER_01 (26:37):
Schools have a minimum number of hours that
people need in order to apply.
So the minimum requirement iswhat you absolutely have to
have.
Now, is it a good idea to goabove and beyond the minimum?
Yes, I think it's always a goodidea to ask yourself, how can I
go above and beyond the minimum?
And if that means continuing toshadow the same person, I think
(26:57):
that's great.
I think it builds a relationshipwith that person.
And maybe then you feel they'veseen enough of you to even
potentially write you a letterof recommendation.
Now, by the way, do discourageif you've just shouted them one
time and they don't know youvery well, it, you know, it
probably wouldn't be uh a verystrong letter of recommendation.
So, yes, you can start buildingrelationships if you keep coming
(27:19):
back to the same anesthesiaprovider.
And I think that when you doexceed minimums, I think that
that is a positive reflection ofyour drive, of your commitment,
of your dedication.
Keep in mind the more shadowinghours that you have, the more I
would expect of you in aninterview situation.
And that's just the truth.
So it would be more alarming tome as somebody interviewing you
(27:41):
if you cannot answer a verybasic anesthesia question.
If you've shadowed for 75 hoursin the OR, if you couldn't tell
me what that white drug is thatwe push before general
anesthesia, like if you can'tname propofol, I would kind of
wonder, well, was this personjust shadowing for the hours?
Or, you know, were theyshadowing to actually try to
(28:01):
learn something and furthertheir understanding of the
profession?
And that's where shadowing iskind of a a two-sided coin.
On one end, you know, it's it'srequired.
And so you're trying to becompetitive, you're trying to
get more and more hours.
But then think about the otherside of the coin as to why is
that a requirement in the firstplace?
(28:21):
And it's a requirement so thatyou understand the profession,
so that you know this is whatyou want to do, so that you
start to learn, even if some ofthese uh anesthesia words, this
anesthesia jargon.
So if your number of hours goup, but your level of
understanding and familiaritywith the profession isn't also
going up, there's a disconnectthere.
(28:43):
The admissions committee memberscan pick up on that.
So just always keep in mind thatwith more hours, there's more
expectation.
SPEAKER_00 (28:50):
Mm-hmm.
I did not ever really thinkabout that, like about more
hours is more expectation interms of the interview.
Cause what I was gonna share wasthat I had a delightful shadower
who I would say we became sortof friends.
Um, he was a standout candidate.
Um, and I happened to know thatabout him after three or four
(29:10):
shadowing interactions.
And he kept coming to get, hewon like a hundred plus hours
because he thought that wasgonna make him stand out.
This was two years ago.
And he ended up asking me towrite him a letter of
recommendation, which I feellike I could write a very strong
letter of recommendation for himafter the amount of time we
spent together.
He wasn't just shadowing me, itwas like one of four CAAs at my
(29:30):
at my previous surgery center.
And then he ended up not gettingin and asking me to write him a
second letter of recommendationfor this year.
And I was like, actually, Ican't write you that.
Like my interaction with you wasa year ago.
It was very particular afterthis amount of shadowing and
like the person I knew you to belike, I don't know you well
(29:51):
enough now.
After time has passed, I'vemoved on to a different job.
So it was just kind of aninteresting interaction where
shadowing doesn't solveeverything.
A hundred hours of shadowingdoesn't solve everything, is the
moral of this story.
And you know, it's just it's somany things, including
shadowing, that will get youinto AA school, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (30:10):
Absolutely.
It's about the big picture, andshadowing is just a piece of
that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:14):
Yes, yes.
And it's just one of the piecesthat pre-As cannot control.
And so it, I don't know, what isit the biggest piece you cannot
control?
Maybe you can't, you know, uh,you can kind of study for the
MCAT and the GRE and keep takingthem, keep taking it.
Shadowing is like you have towait to be invited into the club
a little bit, and you have tokeep asking for an invite.
(30:37):
Yeah, so I'm not surprised thatit's the biggest question we get
asked.
And I do think there is benefitto hearing other people's
stories, to obviously thisepisode, our previous episode, I
will link to where we talk aboutshadowing, among other things.
It was, was that a couple ofyears ago, Sarah, that we
recorded together?
I think so at this point.
(30:58):
Yeah, I know.
Time is going.
It's been interesting becauseSarah and I have sort of
branched out as CAAentrepreneurs on a similar
timeline.
So so much has happened to ussince then.
So true.
Um, yeah, and just I encourageeveryone who's listening to, you
know, share stories, askupperclassmen, as Sarah said,
(31:18):
um, reach out with intention,with the curiosity, and just
really be sure that you're usinga shadow experience to make sure
you want to be a CAA.
It is a two-way street, right?
And the point of it is to knowyou want to do this.
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
You know, yes.
Yes.
I think that's a super importantdistinction.
The point of shadowing is toknow that this is the right
profession for you and then tobe able to articulate that to
the admissions committee.
SPEAKER_00 (31:48):
Okay.
All right, Sarah, one more time.
If people want to work with you,tell us again the best way to
contact you.
SPEAKER_01 (31:55):
I would love to show you how to get accepted to CAA
school.
The best way to connect with meis through my website.
You can see my coaching and youcan message me directly through
that contact tab.
You can also find me on socialmedia.
I am active on LinkedIn and Ialso am on Instagram at aspiring
CAA underscore official.
SPEAKER_00 (32:16):
Amazing.
What's your handle on LinkedIn?
Do we search for you like SarahWhitfield or do we search for
aspiring CAA or does it matter?
SPEAKER_01 (32:23):
You can search for me specifically.
I post under my personalaccount.
So just search Sarah Whitfield.
All right, awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (32:30):
And I will put that all in the show notes so it's
easy peasy for those who arelistening.
But all right, Sarah, thank youso much for your time.
It's Halloween 2025 that we'rerecording this.
Are you guys going triggertreating tonight?
SPEAKER_01 (32:41):
Oh, definitely.
SPEAKER_00 (32:42):
Yes, my my kiddos are very excited.
Yes, yes.
All right, well, I will talk toyou soon, Sarah.
Thanks for listening, everyone.
SPEAKER_01 (32:50):
Thanks for having me.
Bye.
SPEAKER_00 (33:01):
Thanks for listening to Awakened Anesthetist.
If this episode resonated withyou, share it with a CAA friend,
an AA student in your life, or aperspective, and let them know
why you loved it.
It's the most important thingyou can do to support this
podcast and its mission.
You can always find more ways toconnect with me and this CAA
(33:23):
community atawakenedanesthetist.com,
including an invitation to joinseason five Mindful Connections.
These are free virtualgatherings open to anyone in our
Awakened Anesthetist community.
And while you're scrolling thewebsite, check out my trusted
CAA partners who make thispodcast possible with a special
(33:45):
thank you to my season fivesponsor, Harmony Anesthesia
Staffing.
Talk soon.
Before we dive into part two of my conversation with
Sarah Whitfield fromaspiringca.com, I wanted to make
sure you're all caught up.
So if you've missed part one ofthis larger shadowing
conversation where Sarah and Icovered her journey, what
aspiring CAA is all about, andthe foundational shadowing
mindset every pre-AA shouldhave, then go back and listen to
(05:06):
that first.
It's linked for you in the shownotes.
Now, in today's episode, we'retaking you behind the scenes as
two practicing CAAs who havetaken more than 100 combined
shadowers in our years.
We're giving you an honest, openlook at what it actually feels
like to host a shadower, what weappreciate, what makes the
experience smoother, and yes,what we really wish shadowers
(05:30):
would not do.
If you've ever wondered what'sgoing through a CAA's mind when
you walk into their OR, this isthe episode you want to hear.
And because Sarah and I want tomake sure you're supported as
much as possible on your pre-Ajourney, I created a totally
free shadowing guide to go withthis two-part series.
You can grab that in the shownotes as well.
(05:50):
No cost, no catch, justsomething I hope will make your
path a little clearer and a lotless stressful.
All right, let's get back intoit.
Here's part two of how to landand leverage those darn
shadowing hours.
Welcome to the AwakenedAnesthetist Podcast, the first
(06:12):
podcast to highlight the CAAexperience.
I'm your host, Mary Jean, andI've been a certified
anesthesiologist assistant forclose to two decades.
Throughout my journey andstruggles, I've searched for
guidance that includes my uniqueperspective as a CAA.
At one of my lowest points, Idecided to turn my passion for
(06:32):
storytelling and my belief thatthe CAA profession is uniquely
able to create a life by designinto a podcast.
If you are a practicing CAA,current AA student, or someone
who hopes to be one, I encourageyou to stick around and
experience the power of being ina community filled with voices
(06:53):
who sound like yours, sharingexperiences you never believed
possible.
I know you will find yourselfhere at the Awakened Anestetist
Podcast.
Welcome in.
Welcome to a little bonusconversation between me and
Sarah Whitfield, who is apracticing CAA as well as the
(07:14):
founder of AspiringCAA.com.
We wanted to have you all beable to listen in to two CAA
preceptors who take students, AAstudents, as well as shadowers
in the operating room and havedone so for years.
We wanted to just share somebehind the scenes of what it
(07:34):
feels like as the CAA in thatdynamic so that you, the
shadower, can listen in and be alittle bit more prepared, be a
little bit more comfortable, andmaybe avoid some pitfalls to
make sure that your shadowingexperience is as positive for
both of you, the CAA, and foryou, the shadower, as possible.
So welcome back, Miss SarahWhitfield.
(07:56):
I am excited to continue ourconversation.
SPEAKER_01 (07:59):
I'm excited to get into it.
This is a really good topic.
SPEAKER_00 (08:02):
I know.
I I'm I love sharing behind thescenes of all things.
So let's start off.
Um, someone had asked what arethe worst experiences that we've
had with shadowers and what arethe best.
So let's start off with thenegative first because that's a
little juicier.
So is there any lasting negativeimpression that a shadowing
(08:24):
experience has left on you?
And let's hear all the details.
SPEAKER_01 (08:28):
Something that is coming to mind is a student who
shadowed me.
And at, you know, we had a greatday together.
At the end of the day, thisperson thanked me and went on
their way.
And then a couple of days later,I got an email with multiple,
multiple shadowing forms thatthis person wanted me to print
(08:49):
off and sign an email back.
So to put a little contextaround this, each CIA program
requires their own shadowingform.
And don't get me started on thistopic.
If it were up to me, I wouldmake each program, you know,
have the same form.
So it's just one form and it'sgood for each program, but
(09:10):
that's just not how it is.
So it was just a lot of work onmy end to have to print, I'll
figure out how to print off 10forms, sign them, scan them,
email them back.
So that left a negativeimpression on me because it
tremendously added to myworkload to accommodate this
shadower.
Um, so you know, to flip it, howcould that have been positive?
(09:31):
That negative could have beenturned into a positive.
This person had come preparedand anticipated and had already
printed off all the forms theywanted me to sign and had those
ready to go at the end of theday so I could just knock it out
and not have to worry aboutprinting and uploading and
emailing back.
SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
I cannot believe you did that.
That was very gracious of you.
Um, I'm just wondering if thatstudent was a good shadower.
Like, did you have a goodshadowing experience?
And then this last interactionkind of left a bad taste in your
mouth, or was the kind ofwriting on the wall with this
person?
SPEAKER_01 (10:04):
It was a very positive shadowing experience.
Overall, I really had nothingnegative to say until a couple
days later when I was printingoff lots of shadowing forms.
SPEAKER_00 (10:15):
Yes.
So probably just like an air, amistake on their end that they
didn't realize.
And now, you know, they have tobacktrack.
So yeah, that's um unfortunate.
And I just think you just haveto own your mistake.
Kind of like in AA school, ifyou get a wrong answer or your
interview, you get a wronganswer, you just say, Thank you
for sharing.
I will do better next time.
(10:36):
Yeah, just being reallytransparent with this, the error
that you made and how much extrawork you're putting on the
preceptor.
Um, okay, any lasting positiveexperience, Miss Sarah, that
you'd love for people toduplicate?
SPEAKER_01 (10:50):
Yes, I love punctuality.
So it's always a really positiveimpression when the the
rendezvous point, the meetingpoint that we agree on in the
morning and the time, when Ishow up there, I love for the
shadower to be waiting for me sothat I just can swing by that
location and get our daystarted.
The anesthesia profession isvery punctual.
(11:11):
So you want to make sure thatyou know you're always on time
and and not causing any sort ofdelay.
So that's always a reallypositive impression for me when
somebody is punctual.
Um, and then it's always reallypositive too for me when I see
their attitude being positive,when I see them being excited to
be there when they do havequestions.
(11:33):
Um, so it can get a little bitawkward.
So this is kind of going back tothe negative.
I've had it where while we'resitting down and I just they're
not talking and I'm I then I'mtrying to make conversation.
I say, you know, do you have anyquestions?
And they say, no, not really atthis time.
That can be kind of discouragingbecause I'm thinking, oh, I'm
excited to share about the ACAA.
What could I teach them?
(11:54):
And then it kind of feels likeI'm shut down.
And so that can be discouraging.
But on the flip side, to kind ofaddress the positive side of it,
I love when I get people inthere who do say, yes, tell me.
Tell me about how you decidedhow to manage that airway.
Tell me about why you use thedrugs that you used.
Tell me about this or that, evenopen question, open, open-ended
(12:15):
questions like tell me aboutfill in the blank.
I think that's a good way justto get the conversation going.
And then it lets your preceptorkind of take it in the direction
that they want.
So it's really always positiveto me when somebody gets me
talking and excited about myjob.
SPEAKER_00 (12:29):
Yes.
Yes.
And and CAAs love their job.
Most CAA, well, I really havenever met a CAA who does not
like their job, does not likeanesthesia.
And so if you get us talkingabout the thing we love, you're
gonna have a great experienceand you're gonna feel that
connection with your preceptor,with the CAA, and be able to go
a little bit deeper with yourpersonal questions.
(12:52):
Like some of the my bestexperiences are when I leave the
interaction and feel like I'vegained a new friend.
And that's mostly becausethey're asking questions of me.
Why did I choose the CAAprofession?
What do I love about it?
And, you know, almost flippingthe role, like questions that
they would receive in theirinterview, they're kind of
(13:13):
asking me.
Um, and that can build somestrong rapport.
And then my best experiences arewhen just the curiosity is
palpable, like oozing off of theshadower student.
So I um appreciate a shadowerwho is interested in the surgery
(13:33):
as well as the anesthesia.
Anesthesia is um when we say theword anesthesia, oftentimes when
we're in the operating room, weare referring to like a what,
six foot by six foot space,maybe.
I mean, just like a very smallanesthesia space.
Um, and you'll be back therewith your preceptor with me.
(13:54):
And oftentimes there is somelike, you know, I'm standing or
you're sitting, or vice versa,which is why we got the seated
question, because like whereyour butt actually is is a real
thing in anesthesia.
Um, and so it can get a littleclose quarters.
And if the conversation isn'tflowing, it can feel awkward for
me, the CAA, as well as for you,the shadower.
(14:16):
And so I love a moment when theum shadower maybe can have some
um situational awareness andthey'll ask me to watch the
surgery, especially if it's areally long case, a really long
day, it can give us some breaksfrom talking to each other
nonstop and can give you sometime to formulate questions and
it can give your CAA a breakbecause again, having a shadower
(14:40):
while we love it is extra workthat we are not being paid for.
And sometimes the CAA just wantsto take a break.
And so you watching the surgeryand just being engaged and
interested, you know, is just abreak for everyone while you're
also learning and looking supercurious and engaged.
So those are always my bestexperiences when the person
looks curious and they also canread the room energetically.
(15:03):
Um and again, you know, it it'sum it's kind of a little bit
awkward.
It's gonna be a little bitawkward.
It just really is, which is whythat debrief is so important in
the beginning of a day to kindof lay that groundwork between
you and the preceptor.
Uh, interesting, I don't havephysical shadowers as much in
the operating room anymorebecause I'm only in the
(15:24):
operating room a day a week.
And um, I often have afirst-year AA student.
And so I don't have then ashadower as well.
And so my interaction right nowwith shadowers is often in the
cold reach out or the, you know,trying to make a warm reach out.
And so, yeah, just the negativelasting experience I've had
aside from the mothers, well, Idon't know why it's not fathers,
(15:47):
but always mothers, reaching outis just when I can feel from the
reach out, from the cold callthat the the preAA is wanting
me, the CAA, to take my time tomake their life easier.
And whether that's the actualsentiment, the reach out feels
that way.
Like you haven't done enoughwork on your end to kind of lead
(16:09):
me into helping you.
So, for example, in my area, ifyou were to reach out to me and
be like, hey, I know I canshadow at Liberty Hospital and
St.
Luke's on the Plaza, I know thatyou work at St.
Luke's on the Plaza.
I've tried to contact theeducational department.
I can't find the number.
Is there a contact that youknow?
And so all I have to do to helpyou is give you this one answer
(16:30):
to this one problem, reallymakes my life easier, offers you
help and also establishes arelationship where you're not
asking me to come shadowimmediately, but you're building
that rapport, that bond.
And the shadowing experiencesthat I have facilitated have
come from pre-AAs who facilitatea relationship from that
(16:51):
groundwork.
Um, because at my hospital, it'sa big process.
SPEAKER_01 (16:55):
I absolutely agree with everything you just said.
That is so important to keep inmind that you want to reduce the
friction for the person thatyou're asking to shadow as much
as possible.
It is more work for them.
And I honestly don't think thata lot of pre-CAAs understand
that because they see all thework from their perspective.
Like, sure, look at all thiswork it is for me.
(17:18):
And the truth is it is a lot ofwork for both can be true.
It can be a lot of work for theperson who's trying to find
shadowing, and it can be a lotof work for the person who's
trying to make it happen andfacilitate it.
And so it's always important tokeep both perspectives in mind.
And I wanted to share similarlythat I don't really take
shadowers right now either,simply because ever since COVID,
(17:39):
my hospital has really gottenvery strict on who can shadow.
And in fact, the only peoplethat can shadow are people who
are currently employed.
So, for example, I've had apatient care tech shadow me, but
that was because she's worked atour hospital for six months
already.
So I can't, I can't just say yesto the person who messages me
from LinkedIn.
(18:00):
What I will say though is mostCAAs know other CIAs.
So don't see somebody who saysno as, you know, oh, well,
that's that's a complete deadend.
You want your message to land insuch a way where they would be
comfortable referring you tosomebody else in their network.
Yes.
So that's that's something thatI really like to focus on is
(18:21):
that your message should makethem so comfortable with you and
it should speak about yourprofessionalism and how you
communicate so powerfully thatthey would be comfortable
introducing you to somebodyelse.
Because if it comes across asunprofessional to me, I will not
refer you to a colleague becauseI will be embarrassed.
If if my colleague texts me andis like, whoa, that person that
(18:43):
you sent me to shadow was late,did not seem interested, was on
their phone in the OR, I wouldbe mortified if I had sent
somebody like that to one of myfriends.
Um, and they would give me ahard time about it too.
So I I'm just I'm not going todo it.
If I don't feel really stronglythat this person is going to
represent themselves extremelyprofessionally, then you know,
(19:07):
I'm not going to be willing torefer out.
SPEAKER_00 (19:09):
Um, let's talk about shadowers that have made
mistakes.
So things like touchingsomething that's sterile, that's
not supposed to be touched, orum maybe, you know, um doing
like a non-obvious mistake, likeoverstepping a verbal boundary
with a patient or with a surgeonor the anesthesiologist.
(19:30):
Any examples that that youremember that you want to share?
SPEAKER_01 (19:35):
I'm trying to think.
Um, I kind of have thepersonality where I try not to
hold on to the the bad thingsthat people do.
Um I I I am kind of vaguely nowrecalling something that um, you
know, maybe didn't go exactly asI would have wanted it to with a
shadower, and that was in thepre-op area.
(19:56):
And I started to do the theinterview and I briefly
introduced the person who wasshadowing me just so that
everybody in the room is awareand feels included.
(21:00):
And it's just respectful toalways make sure that the
patient knows everybody who'sgoing to be in the room.
That's the appropriate thing todo.
Um, and I was trying to do mypre-op interview where I get
very important information.
I review allergies, I reviewpast medical history, do an
airway exam.
And the student ended upinterrupting it a little bit and
(21:20):
having their own conversationwith the patient.
And I will say though, it wasinitiated by the patient.
The patient, you know, was like,oh, you're interested in
anesthesia and and started thatconversation.
But I ended up feeling a littleawkward having to cut it off
because the student just keptgoing on and on, which I could
tell the student was excited tobe there and that was great.
But it just really at that pointwas not appropriate to delay my
(21:42):
interview because they'rewaiting for me to finish my
interview to roll back.
So, you know, I had wished thatstudent would have read the room
and give a very given a verybrief answer so that I could
jump back to what I was doing.
So, you know, whether or not I'dcall that a mistake, I'd
probably hesitate to use thatword.
You know, I I would feelcomfortable saying this person
didn't really read the room orthe situation very well, though.
(22:05):
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:06):
And that is the hard part, is that so many quote
unquote mistakes are just notreading the room appropriately.
Um, and uh I will offer that I Ihad more of a true, like I gave
that sterility suggestionbecause that in fact did happen
to me.
So when you are in an operatingroom, there are non-sterile
(22:27):
areas, areas that you can touchwithout being donned sterile,
like with sterile gloves and agown.
And there are areas that youhave to be sterile.
And generally, this is ingeneral, the sterile areas are
draped in blue.
Um, and so it's just somethingreally important to understand
when you're coming into shadow,like what's sterile and not
(22:48):
sterile.
You can watch YouTube videos,like this is a very basic
concept.
But I had a shadower whoaccidentally touched something
blue and then tried to say theydidn't touch it, which it was
like something kind of furtheroff from the field.
But you know, your naturalinclination when you are yelled
at or you are told you didsomething wrong is to become
(23:11):
defensive.
And unfortunately, inanesthesia, um mistakes do
happen on various levels.
I have touched things that aresterile and I and I was not
supposed to touch.
And you have to so activelyfight the feeling of hiding that
as a secret or not tellingsomeone or like, hey, maybe no
(23:34):
one saw me, so I don't have tosay anything.
Like our human brains want us tohide that information to avoid,
you know, getting in trouble.
And a a CAA can never hideinformation like that.
And so seeing the shadowerbecome so defensive, again,
understandable, but likeverbally defending themselves
(23:55):
was just a huge red flag.
So I want shadowers who arelistening to hear me say
mistakes happen.
You don't know what you don'tknow.
You can kind of help smooth out,like accidentally do something
wrong by a nice debrief withyour shadowing preceptor in the
morning.
Like, hey, I've never been in anoperating room before.
(24:18):
I really want to make sure I'mnot in your way, that I don't
interrupt the flow, that I knowwhen to ask questions.
Here's what I'm thinking.
Does that work for you?
Like phrasing it like that.
Um, but still, sometimes thingsmay happen and you just have to
instantly own up to it.
There's just no other way aroundit.
You just have to own up to themistake or mishap or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (24:37):
Thoughts.
I really like that you broughtthat up.
I think defensiveness is one ofthe top ways to disqualify
yourself as a competitivecandidate.
Yes.
Defensiveness is going to causeso much trouble in your
anesthesia training as well.
So if you're defensive, you'renot being teachable.
(25:01):
Becoming an anesthesiaprofessional requires a lot of
humility because you will becorrected and guided and molded
by not only your faculty membersat your program, but each and
every preceptor you have, andthat will be a different person
each and every day.
So if you're a shadower andyou're already starting off
defensive, that is not a goodindicator that you would one,
(25:22):
even get accepted.
But if you did get accepted, youwould have a very rough time in
school if you hold on to thatdefensiveness.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (25:31):
Yes.
Okay, that got that off mychest.
So and it's just such abeautiful teaching moment.
Um, if you are teachable, thatlike, hey, this is gonna happen
in AA school, and how are yougoing to respond?
Um, because I still makemistakes as a CAA.
I just put a EKG lead like oversomething that was sterile under
the drape.
(25:51):
I was like trying to get a newEKG lead on, and I like plop,
plopped it right on the edges oflike the sterile abdomen.
And they were like, What's this?
I'm like, well, that was medoing something wrong.
I'm so sorry.
And you fix it and you move on.
But okay.
Um, let's see here.
Let's talk about the situationwhere maybe a shadower has
(26:12):
gotten in.
This has happened to me where ashadower got approved.
They um maybe met their minimumeight-hour requirement, and now
they keep coming back and backand back and back to build more
and more hours to theoreticallylook better on the application.
Break down for me from yourperspective as a CAA, like
should they still keep comingback to the same provider?
(26:34):
How many hours do they need, etcetera, et cetera?
SPEAKER_01 (26:37):
Schools have a minimum number of hours that
people need in order to apply.
So the minimum requirement iswhat you absolutely have to
have.
Now, is it a good idea to goabove and beyond the minimum?
Yes, I think it's always a goodidea to ask yourself, how can I
go above and beyond the minimum?
And if that means continuing toshadow the same person, I think
(26:57):
that's great.
I think it builds a relationshipwith that person.
And maybe then you feel they'veseen enough of you to even
potentially write you a letterof recommendation.
Now, by the way, do discourageif you've just shouted them one
time and they don't know youvery well, it, you know, it
probably wouldn't be uh a verystrong letter of recommendation.
So, yes, you can start buildingrelationships if you keep coming
(27:19):
back to the same anesthesiaprovider.
And I think that when you doexceed minimums, I think that
that is a positive reflection ofyour drive, of your commitment,
of your dedication.
Keep in mind the more shadowinghours that you have, the more I
would expect of you in aninterview situation.
And that's just the truth.
So it would be more alarming tome as somebody interviewing you
(27:41):
if you cannot answer a verybasic anesthesia question.
If you've shadowed for 75 hoursin the OR, if you couldn't tell
me what that white drug is thatwe push before general
anesthesia, like if you can'tname propofol, I would kind of
wonder, well, was this personjust shadowing for the hours?
Or, you know, were theyshadowing to actually try to
(28:01):
learn something and furthertheir understanding of the
profession?
And that's where shadowing iskind of a a two-sided coin.
On one end, you know, it's it'srequired.
And so you're trying to becompetitive, you're trying to
get more and more hours.
But then think about the otherside of the coin as to why is
that a requirement in the firstplace?
(28:21):
And it's a requirement so thatyou understand the profession,
so that you know this is whatyou want to do, so that you
start to learn, even if some ofthese uh anesthesia words, this
anesthesia jargon.
So if your number of hours goup, but your level of
understanding and familiaritywith the profession isn't also
going up, there's a disconnectthere.
(28:43):
The admissions committee memberscan pick up on that.
So just always keep in mind thatwith more hours, there's more
expectation.
SPEAKER_00 (28:50):
Mm-hmm.
I did not ever really thinkabout that, like about more
hours is more expectation interms of the interview.
Cause what I was gonna share wasthat I had a delightful shadower
who I would say we became sortof friends.
Um, he was a standout candidate.
Um, and I happened to know thatabout him after three or four
(29:10):
shadowing interactions.
And he kept coming to get, hewon like a hundred plus hours
because he thought that wasgonna make him stand out.
This was two years ago.
And he ended up asking me towrite him a letter of
recommendation, which I feellike I could write a very strong
letter of recommendation for himafter the amount of time we
spent together.
He wasn't just shadowing me, itwas like one of four CAAs at my
(29:30):
at my previous surgery center.
And then he ended up not gettingin and asking me to write him a
second letter of recommendationfor this year.
And I was like, actually, Ican't write you that.
Like my interaction with you wasa year ago.
It was very particular afterthis amount of shadowing and
like the person I knew you to belike, I don't know you well
(29:51):
enough now.
After time has passed, I'vemoved on to a different job.
So it was just kind of aninteresting interaction where
shadowing doesn't solveeverything.
A hundred hours of shadowingdoesn't solve everything, is the
moral of this story.
And you know, it's just it's somany things, including
shadowing, that will get youinto AA school, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (30:10):
Absolutely.
It's about the big picture, andshadowing is just a piece of
that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:14):
Yes, yes.
And it's just one of the piecesthat pre-As cannot control.
And so it, I don't know, what isit the biggest piece you cannot
control?
Maybe you can't, you know, uh,you can kind of study for the
MCAT and the GRE and keep takingthem, keep taking it.
Shadowing is like you have towait to be invited into the club
a little bit, and you have tokeep asking for an invite.
(30:37):
Yeah, so I'm not surprised thatit's the biggest question we get
asked.
And I do think there is benefitto hearing other people's
stories, to obviously thisepisode, our previous episode, I
will link to where we talk aboutshadowing, among other things.
It was, was that a couple ofyears ago, Sarah, that we
recorded together?
I think so at this point.
(30:58):
Yeah, I know.
Time is going.
It's been interesting becauseSarah and I have sort of
branched out as CAAentrepreneurs on a similar
timeline.
So so much has happened to ussince then.
So true.
Um, yeah, and just I encourageeveryone who's listening to, you
know, share stories, askupperclassmen, as Sarah said,
(31:18):
um, reach out with intention,with the curiosity, and just
really be sure that you're usinga shadow experience to make sure
you want to be a CAA.
It is a two-way street, right?
And the point of it is to knowyou want to do this.
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
You know, yes.
Yes.
I think that's a super importantdistinction.
The point of shadowing is toknow that this is the right
profession for you and then tobe able to articulate that to
the admissions committee.
SPEAKER_00 (31:48):
Okay.
All right, Sarah, one more time.
If people want to work with you,tell us again the best way to
contact you.
SPEAKER_01 (31:55):
I would love to show you how to get accepted to CAA
school.
The best way to connect with meis through my website.
You can see my coaching and youcan message me directly through
that contact tab.
You can also find me on socialmedia.
I am active on LinkedIn and Ialso am on Instagram at aspiring
CAA underscore official.
SPEAKER_00 (32:16):
Amazing.
What's your handle on LinkedIn?
Do we search for you like SarahWhitfield or do we search for
aspiring CAA or does it matter?
SPEAKER_01 (32:23):
You can search for me specifically.
I post under my personalaccount.
So just search Sarah Whitfield.
All right, awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (32:30):
And I will put that all in the show notes so it's
easy peasy for those who arelistening.
But all right, Sarah, thank youso much for your time.
It's Halloween 2025 that we'rerecording this.
Are you guys going triggertreating tonight?
SPEAKER_01 (32:41):
Oh, definitely.
SPEAKER_00 (32:42):
Yes, my my kiddos are very excited.
Yes, yes.
All right, well, I will talk toyou soon, Sarah.
Thanks for listening, everyone.
SPEAKER_01 (32:50):
Thanks for having me.
Bye.
SPEAKER_00 (33:01):
Thanks for listening to Awakened Anesthetist.
If this episode resonated withyou, share it with a CAA friend,
an AA student in your life, or aperspective, and let them know
why you loved it.
It's the most important thingyou can do to support this
podcast and its mission.
You can always find more ways toconnect with me and this CAA
(33:23):
community atawakenedanesthetist.com,
including an invitation to joinseason five Mindful Connections.
These are free virtualgatherings open to anyone in our
Awakened Anesthetist community.
And while you're scrolling thewebsite, check out my trusted
CAA partners who make thispodcast possible with a special
(33:45):
thank you to my season fivesponsor, Harmony Anesthesia
Staffing.
Talk soon.
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