July 4, 2025 • 43 mins
Have you ever achieved something you thought you wanted, only to feel strangely empty? This profound conversation with CBT therapist Ludovica Colella uncovers the hidden cost of living by other people's rules and the liberating journey toward authentic self-expression.
Ludovica shares her personal awakening after realizing her impressive achievements as a therapist in London weren't bringing the fulfillment she expected. The breakthrough came when she recognised she was living according to an inherited timeline and expectations. This revelation sparked her transformation from people-pleaser to empowered coach helping others break free from similar patterns.
We dive deep into what Ludovica calls the "Good Girl Syndrome"—the societal conditioning that teaches women to be accommodating, non-confrontational, and self-sacrificing at the expense of their authentic needs. She explains how people-pleasing is essentially a form of self-abandonment that often begins as a survival mechanism in childhood but continues shaping our adult relationships in harmful ways.
Whether you're struggling with perfectionism, feeling disconnected from your desires, or simply exhausted from trying to make everyone else happy, this conversation offers a compassionate roadmap to reclaiming your authentic voice and living from a place of genuine self-worth.
Ready to break free from people-pleasing patterns? Subscribe to Awakened Conscious Conversations for more transformative discussions that will help you live with greater authenticity and purpose.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, I'm your host, the Gentle Yoga
Warrior, and this is AwakenedConscious Conversations podcast,
and joining us shortly, all theway from Italy, is Ludovica
Colella, and Ludovica is goingto talk about something that she
is an expert in and that istoday.
(00:20):
We are going to talk aboutbreaking free from people
pleasing and people pleasing issomething that I can relate to.
When one is trying to navigateone's path and people expect
things from us which we don'tnecessarily want to do, or
(00:40):
commitments that we don'tnecessarily want to have, and
taking into account one's ownfeelings and the person's
feelings, it can be quite atricky road to navigate, so
that's why I'm especiallyexcited to speak to Ludovica on
this subject matter.
Before Ludovica comes online, Iwould just like to share a bit
about this wonderful person.
(01:02):
My only regret is that I wasgoing through my research and I
realized that Ludovic is also anauthor of the Feel Good Journal
, and I've only been able toread a little bit of it and it
seemed brilliant so far, and Ithink it's one that I'm going to
put on my Christmas list forsome of my friends and family.
It looks an exceptionallybrilliant book, because I think
(01:25):
the reason I think it looks sucha good book is because we spend
so much of our life trying topeople, please people, and it's
not always to our own benefitsto do such a thing.
Ludovica will be able to explaina bit more, but I just want to
give you a bit of backstoryabout Ludovica.
So she has been a CBT therapistfor over 10 years in the mental
(01:48):
health field.
I know that she began hercareer working for the NHS in
London and she has sinceexpanded into a life of coaching
and Ludovica is deeplycommitted to empowering
individuals to liberatethemselves from the grip of
perfectionism andpeople-pleasing tendencies.
(02:09):
I think it's changed that wewere brought up as girls to be
like, oh, don't rock the boat,kind of like, please, everyone,
be a good girl, be happy, smiley, and that we have to be kind of
perfect all the time.
Or we kind of got this the worldfrom the Victorian era where
(02:30):
Lisa Cole woman had hysteria andthey would put them in mental
hospital, all these awful thingsthey would do to women.
It was like an illness, femalehysteria and all that kind of
thing.
And maybe, I don't know, maybeit's echoes from that time when
we were kind of worried to beourselves in case we were kind
of cascaded for it and I'm veryexcited to hear what Ludovica
(02:52):
has to say on this matter.
Dear listeners, without furtherado, ludovica Tolela yes, ah,
fantastic, I was a bit nervousabout the pronunciation of that.
So thank you, ludovica, thankyou Perfect pronunciation.
Oh, thank you so welcome to theshow.
I have been very keen to getyou on the show, especially the
(03:15):
field that you're an expert in.
So, dear listeners, as I saidearlier, we're going to talk
today about breaking free frompeople pleasing, and I think
it's something that we can allbe very guilty of for all
numbers of reasons.
But, dear Ludovica, would youmind explaining your journey so
far and what inspired you totalk about this today?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, that's a very interesting question, because I
could talk about so many things,so many breakthroughs, so many
examples, but essentially, atsome point in my life, I
realized that I was living alife according to other people's
rules.
And you know, when you havethat huge goal of yours that you
(03:57):
really want to achieve and youthink, oh, when I will get there
, I'll be so satisfied withmyself.
And then you get there.
And you get there even beforethe time that you planned before
, like you had even theresources, but you get there, uh
, and after all the the hardwork, you think, is that it?
You know, is that, is that howI'm supposed to feel?
(04:18):
Because obviously, happinesswas there, but it was
short-lived, it didn't give methat sense of worth,
satisfaction, value that I wasexpecting to receive.
And so I started asking myselfsome questions like what was I
hoping to feel by getting hereand who is this goal?
Um, who's this goal, basically?
(04:40):
Who talked me into this?
Because I love my job and Ireally don't imagine myself
doing anything different, but Ihad this idea of a timeline that
I had to achieve by 30 yearsold.
By that age, I have to achieve acertain number of things, and
my goal at that point was tobecome a therapist, to live in
(05:00):
London, have my own office anddo my own things, like as a
private therapist, and Iachieved that by the age of 29.
And so when I stopped after Iachieved that, I thought there's
something, there's stillsomething missing.
So it's almost like I was theyou know, the hamster on the
wheel, always running aftersomething.
(05:20):
And I had to do lots ofself-analysis there when at some
point I realized there was aninherited rule that I got from
somewhere, someone in my familywho was convinced that in order
to live a happy life, I had tobe just running after things,
(05:40):
basically have the ambition,have the drive, do the be the
best at what you do.
And so I kind of lived my lifein a state of survival, you know
, running after the things thatI thought I had to want in a way
.
And so after I achieved thosethings, I was like this is not
(06:02):
mine, like I felt like a senseof disconnection like ever
before.
And it was a bit difficultbecause obviously you spent
maybe 10, 20 years of your lifethinking that's your goal and
then, once you achieve it, yourealize it's not.
And so similar experienceshappened also in relationships
when I actually realized allthese things that I'm doing, why
(06:24):
am I doing them?
Am I outsourcing my sense ofvalue to other people?
Am I expecting people toconfirm that I am worth it, that
I'm lovable, that I'm likable,that I belong, and so that's
when I realized, actually, thatit needs to come from within.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
That's a great journey and the way you were
able to see, um, you weren'tfulfilled and and actually we
can go for all these things, butit does ultimately come from
within.
Why do you think so many of usare kind of people pleasers?
I know that I have done in thepast.
I think, something to do withpossibly sorry, possibly my
(07:01):
parents or someone saying I'llbe a good girl, like kind of
keep all the peace, and thingslike that.
But going back to my question,why so many people please us?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I think there are lots of experiences that people
can have that can lead them tothink that other people are more
important than themselves,because essentially, people
pleasing is a form ofself-abandonment.
So I would start by saying thatone of the first things that
people experience or myexperience, if there are
people-pleasers are is a veryconditional love from their
(07:35):
parents.
Now, I'm always very carefulwhen I use this word conditional
love, because In human form, Ithink all love is conditional.
We love people because thereare conditions.
You marry someone, you sign acontract, so there are terms and
conditions.
So you have friendships becausethey are reciprocal in some
ways.
There is a give and take, sothere are always conditions.
(07:57):
But a parent can make theseconditions really strict and
really harsh and set very highstandards for their children,
sometimes without even knowingit, to the point that the child
obviously doesn't have theability to challenge the parent,
so would just end up acceptingwhatever the parent is saying
(08:19):
that's true and whatever rulethey are giving the child and
will almost blindly follow themand then build a personality, an
entire personality, aroundthose qualities.
And this happens for men andfor women alike, but I think
that specifically for women,there is more of an emphasis
(08:40):
towards self-sacrifice, uh,sacrificing for people around
them.
Um, you know, being nice,polite, accommodating, don't be
a burden, don't shout, don't askfor what you need, uh, be
non-confrontational, you know,just basically chill, just be
less shrink, um, and I think, ifwe really want to take this
(09:02):
further, I think collectively,this is a problem for everyone,
so also for men, because alsomen have emotions, right, but
when it comes to women, they areallowed to, they're more
allowed than men to expresstheir emotions, but at the same
time they should give up almostanything to for the other, to
care for the other.
And there is this idea thatwomen are wired for to care for
(09:26):
other people, which, again, Ithink is problematic in itself
because that would imply thatmen aren't, but I think that
caring is non-gendered, uh.
But there is this ideacollectively, but also at level
of, um, you know, the family,the society, that women should
be just nice, you know nice, anddo not, don't rock the boat,
(09:49):
you know uh, which then it canin turn create women that I have
what I call, but it's not likeI call it that way.
I think it's a thing, um, youknow the good girl syndrome.
So just be nice, be good anddon't rock the boat.
Everything will be fine, andit's not like that.
Obviously, everything won't befine definitely not.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
It makes you think of the time, you know, in the
victorian times, where these arekind of like lock women up and
this is called female hysteria,because if they didn't kind of
conform to like being thesequiet, good, well-behaved women,
then there was something wrongwith them, when really we're a
whole range of our emotions,aren't we?
And to kind of suppress a sideof it, I guess that's what the
(10:33):
good girl syndrome is.
Is there anything else you'dlike to add on the good girl
syndrome at all?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
no, I agree with you that it's a suppression,
basically, um, and then it turnsinto women developing a
distorted feminine, because,yeah, so they become like united
dimensional.
I don't know if you say that inenglish, I guess you do, but
you know they become just forthe other, when actually the
(11:00):
feminine itself is not for theother, it's for itself.
But the distorted feminine then, when it relates, it can go
into manipulation and controland essentially this is what
people pleasing is.
So I try to control how youfeel about me, what you think
about me, just because I try tomake you happy all the time.
I make you a priority.
I'm expecting you to do thesame, but also, if you don't do
(11:23):
the same, I'm disappointed,because why aren't you putting
me as a priority, as I am?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
yeah, that's, that's.
That's really interesting tohear, and and um, but very wise,
because it is we kind of.
It is upon manipulation, isn'tit?
People pleasing?
And yet so many of us do itbecause it's like this learned
behavior.
So how would one get out ofbeing that good girl syndrome?
What was the one thing thatthey could do?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
the first thing that I would do is I would try to
identify the main core belief.
So we all have core beliefs,positive and negative.
When it comes to peoplepleasing, usually the negative
core belief can fall under I'munlovable, I'm unlikable, I
don't belong.
Also, sometimes going to morelike a perfectionism type of
(12:13):
thing.
So I'm incompetent, I'm notsmart, I am not like.
Other people are better than me.
So this is like the summary ofthe main core beliefs.
So first of all, I willidentify what do you believe
about yourself?
What is your self-concept?
How?
Basically, when something goeswrong, let's say in your
(12:37):
relationships, what's the firstthought that comes into your
mind?
Like I knew it.
I deserve this, I knew it.
No one likes me, no one wantsme.
So these are all cues to digdeeper, understand what your
core beliefs are and then, onceyou have identified your core
belief which can also be, forexample, I'm worthless, I'm
useless.
That's also.
These are also very, verycommon ones.
(12:59):
Um, sometimes people um stop atthe level of I'm not good enough
.
This is a very common beliefthat people talk about, but it's
not good enough.
If we dig deeper and if weunpack that, there is always
something more to that.
So we really need to figure outnot good enough in what sense?
(13:19):
Usually, with people pleasing,there is a big emphasis on
external validation.
So again, the sense of selfvalue is outsourced.
So you, uh, I need that textfrom that person to feel better
about myself.
I need to get that jobpromotion to feel better about
myself.
I need to get that amount ofmoney so I know that I'm worth
(13:40):
it.
Right, so that becomes um kindof shows up as a series of
behaviors that are basically ledby this belief system.
So if the tip of the iceberg ofthe belief system is, let's say
, I am unlovable, then we shouldstart asking ourselves in what
ways my brain is trying to makeme feel lovable or make me feel
(14:05):
loved oh, I like that, so kindof focus on the part, like the
positive part yeah and then justkind of jumping into this past
behavior.
Yes, you will go into, becauseobviously, if you have a
negative beliefs, like I'munlovable, then your mind is
already in survival mode tryingto protect you from that.
So what is it that you're doingto feel lovable?
(14:27):
Um, one thing can be oh, I putother people's first, so I want
to make people happy, forexample.
Okay, so I want to make peoplehappy.
Sounds like a very good rule tohave in one's life, but that
can be taken way too far.
So when, when, how do you makeother people happy all the time?
What is it that you do?
And then you startunderstanding.
(14:48):
You know, making a list,literally, of all your behavior.
So I don't ask for what I need,I try not to be a burden, I
don't talk to people when I'msad, I don't ask for help, I
don't delegate.
I make other people's priority.
All the time, I adjust my plansfor other people.
So then you will see that lotsof behaviors will start coming
(15:11):
up that indicate what youactually tangibly, concretely do
in your day-to-day life.
And then, slowly, you startchanging these behaviors.
Obviously, you would start withthe situation that feels safe
with a person.
Maybe that feels safe.
So maybe we could starttargeting behaviors.
Like I never ask for help.
Okay, is there a time that youcould ask for help that feels
(15:35):
low stakes for you, a personthat you could ask for help that
you know that will be there foryou?
And so we'll start with thesesmall behavioral experiments.
And when we do people, lots ofother thoughts, other worries,
other emotions will come up.
And when we do people, lots ofother thoughts, other worries,
other emotions will come up.
And then we can heal them.
Because as soon as long as yourtrauma, let's say it's covered
(15:56):
up by all these behaviors thatnow are forming these people,
pleaser personality, quoteunquote then it will feel like
your life works because for yourmind it works.
You're surviving right.
So that's what your mind caresabout.
You're surviving right.
But in reality, in the longterm, that's causing you lots of
problems.
You're constantly doubting yourrelationships.
You never feel safe in yourrelationships.
(16:18):
You always feel like you haveto show other people things.
You have to constantly performokay in a way.
And so when we start changingthese behaviors, obviously
anything that comes up likeemotions anger, guilt, sadness,
(16:38):
anxiety is a very common one.
Obviously these were allemotions that were linked to
your first trauma, and then wecan heal them once we uncover
them.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Basically oh, it's brilliant.
I love.
I'm really enjoying thisinterview.
It's fantastic thank you, me tooI do have a question from a
viewer, mary, if I can read itout at all.
I've got a question.
She says that she works nearthe partner of her husband's
friend.
So everyone seems keen for herto be friends because obviously
(17:10):
her husband's friend is herhusband's partner, friend's
partner.
But she's tried but she doesn'tfeel that she is a match.
And she's tried to distanceherself but the person's not
getting the hint.
And now she feels stressedbecause she's trying to please
all these people watching yeah,it feels like Mary.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Everyone, everyone wants a piece of Mary, everyone
wants something from Mary.
Um, the nice thing about thisquestion, I guess, is that the
person understood that the otherperson had the need and tried
to compromise.
So, you see, often peoplepleasers just compromising or,
let's say, adapting to the otherperson's demands as a first
(17:56):
response, and in this case Imean we could say that it can be
acceptable, right?
If someone asks you, do youwant to try and hang out with
this person Because you knowit's someone in our circle,
whatever?
Then fine, why not?
But then something happens,right.
So either things go well orthings do not go well.
In this case, mary's not happy,and so there's something about
(18:17):
this relationship now that istriggering Mary out of balance,
and this is now Mary's problemmore than anyone else's.
So you know, and Mary shouldtreat this problem as her
problem first.
So how do I solve this?
Do I need to set someboundaries?
Am I abandoning myself, meaning, am I ignoring the way I feel
(18:39):
just to please other people?
And how could I set healthyboundaries and reiterate them,
because maybe she, she will needto do that in a way that, you
know, it's kind, not rude, butstill is firm.
So I guess at this stage,mary's already experiencing the
difficulty, the challenge ofbeing having pleased or having
(18:59):
tried to please someone.
Also, when we try to do that,we quickly find out that people
are never really pleased and inthe meanwhile we are not pleased
, neither with the with theoutcome, you know.
So I would definitelydefinitely suggest to this
person to check in with heremotion, do a quick energy check
.
How do I feel about this?
What would I want that personto know from me?
(19:21):
And set the boundary clearlywith her husband, with her
friend, with whoever she needsto set it, because she needs to
protect her own space too oh,perfect answer, thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Thank you, I'm sure you'll find that really helpful.
Um, so I know, louis vicar, yousaid that you were, you went
through these things, and thenyou, you realized that you
wanted to work um within, andthe turning point was you
achieved, achieved these things.
How did you, what did younavigate?
Well, how did you change fromthen, from that point where you
(19:53):
kind of you're sitting in youroffice, you've achieved
everything you want, and how didyou pivot it to work more
within yourself?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
so I think you reach a point in life and it might be
about your career, about yourrelationships in which you start
seeing things that you cannotunsee anymore.
So even when you try to ignorethose things, then they come.
They come nagging back all thetime and honestly, I don't think
(20:24):
I deserve that, because, afterall the hard work I put to be
happy like that wasn't somethingI wasn't available to be
unhappy just to satisfy someoneelse's dream and I maybe didn't
mention that before, I'll say itnow my father studied
psychology at 20 years old andhe had to leave university at 21
(20:46):
because he had me.
So for all my life, all he toldme about was how wonderful
studying psychology was, that hereally liked it, that I would
have loved it, he would buy tome psychology books, so he would
really.
He really encouraged me.
In this case I'm saying becauseobviously I this job, but he
(21:08):
really pushed towards it too.
So in a way, I grew up withpsychology books, like I was
reading Freud at 13.
What was I understanding?
Nothing, really not much.
But that's always been mypassion, passion, um, and so
(21:29):
once I achieved that in the citywhere I said I want to live
here, when I was 13 years old.
Um, everything in my mindshould have, should have been
perfect and it wasn't.
And the and when I thought aboutmaybe I should change place of
work simply, maybe this doesn'tfit me anymore, maybe I should,
uh, study another kind oftherapy, maybe this is not my
type of therapy, maybe I shouldchange CT, maybe I should change
(21:52):
something about my life that Idon't know what it is and I will
find out.
It's fine if I don't have allthe answers, but when I asked
myself these questions and I gotchills so this is true the
first thing that came to my mindwas the first thing that came
to my mind was now I need totell my dad that was the first
(22:13):
automatic thought.
What would my dad think aboutthis change?
And so I started understandingthat he was a very predominant
presence in my mind, in my life,a lot more than he was supposed
to be.
Um, and so I started doing somework around that, which then
involved also moving.
Moving involved changing themodality of my work and involved
(22:35):
also therapy going to therapymyself.
Um, and my relationship with myfather changed to a point that
now is non-existent anymore,because that's when I started
setting boundaries about.
You know what I want and mydesires, um, and when people
relate to you, uh, in a way thatin a controlling way, they
(22:59):
can't really accept your freedomof choice, um, that's just the
only thing, that the only optionthat you have is to do that.
But I want to say to peopleplease are listening, not to get
discouraged, because that'salso I mean, it's difficult,
because one of the worries thatwe have as people pleasers when
we stop being so accommodating,is that people will hate us,
(23:22):
will abandon us and no one willlike us.
This isn't true.
The good relationships in yourlife will improve and thrive.
The bad relationships, thetoxic relationships, the
controlling relationships, theseare the ones that you're not
going to be a match to anymore,so these will leave your life oh
yeah, and this is what happenedto me basically
Speaker 1 (23:44):
wow, but it's very brave that you did that, but
also it it's very authentic andsometimes that sometimes people
think because it's apparent thatyou have to kind of put up with
things that aren't in alignment, but it's if we're going to be
completely authenticallyourselves and everything has to
match and if not, we're justcompromising ourselves.
(24:04):
So I think it's very brave andand thank you for speaking so
candidly about that and, um,dear listeners, I, I, I mirror
that in the sense that, um, thepeople that are meant to be when
we're authentic ourself will bein our lives, and the people
that that I want to becontrolling or whatever they,
they won't be in lives and andthat's okay.
(24:25):
I think that's okay.
I think that's okay, that's, itis okay.
It's just to completely beourselves.
So, people, pleasing is like aresponse to trauma, is.
I guess it stems back tochildhood, is it?
Or it could be any age, I guessI think it's very.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
It's um.
When we talk about beliefsystems, you know they form
around seven to ten years old.
So we always as therapists, ofcourse, but in general we we
know that childhood experiencesare always very significant.
So anything that happensbetween that age or before 10
years old, it will shape the wayyou think about yourself and
(25:04):
about other people and aboutrelationships.
But also, I guess, other thingscan happen later on that can
make your people pleaser.
It can be a very demanding jobthat forces you to basically
abandon your life completely andkind of puts you in this again
hamster wheel of having toperform all the time.
Hamster wheel of having toperform all the time.
(25:30):
It can be an abusiverelationship with someone who
every day tries to make you feelbad about yourself and then you
feel like you have to pleasethem to get that validation, or
it can be anything else.
It can be a peer experience.
It can be bullying, for example, where you start thinking at
some point that people don'tlike you, so you have to be
different from who you are.
But there is always a time inwhich we disconnect from who we
are because we think that's theright thing to do for the
(25:53):
survival in that moment, andprobably in that moment was the
right thing to do for survival.
And then we carry that behaviorbecause in the meanwhile we
feel, the brain feels like, okay, so this was good at that time,
when we needed the mask ofpeople pleasing, when we needed
the good girl mask, we wore itand we survived.
And so then we carry that withus, we carry that with us and
(26:16):
and the whole personality getsbuilt around that.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Um, so it can be different experiences, I guess,
but what they all have in commonis the self-abandonment part
right, and that's where thepeople pleasing comes, because
we've abandoned a part ofourself to kind of fit into the
mold of what's happening and thechild didn't.
We carry that through intoadulthood and that's where
someone like yourself, ludovica,that can help people kind of
(26:40):
untangle that and and and findfind themselves.
Is this something you wisheveryone in the world knew, and
what is it I?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
wish that everyone knew that the mind is not so
logical and the emotions are notso irrational.
Ah that's what I think.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
So logical and the emotions are not so rational.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Yeah well, I'm a psychotherapist, right?
So you wouldn't expect maybethis from a CBT therapist that
is heavily reliant on.
Let's reframe your thoughts,let's look at balancing your
thoughts and having morefunctional thoughts, and it's
important to do that at somestage, specifically when we're
talking about clinicaldepression or clinical anxiety
(27:33):
clinical anxiety, but then um,in my work as a coach, instead,
I realized that the mind thinksall the time, right, so that's
the I see the heart beats themind things.
So the quicker you can learn todetach from it, to come back to
your center and be grounded andstay with your emotions, with
with your body, the quicker youlearn to do that, the easier
your life will be.
Because if that's the numberone skill that I think everyone
(27:54):
should learn, is to detach fromtheir mind.
Thoughts are rarely logical.
They are most often biased,conditioned by our experiences,
influenced by the environment,so logic is not really part of
the picture.
I'm telling you as a therapist,the amount of negative thoughts
that people have that theythink is logical is crazy.
Like negative thoughts, bydefinition, are extreme and, um,
(28:18):
inflexible.
So how can they be logical?
But then we spend most of ourtime worrying about things and
having negative thoughts, and soit means that we are in the
present or, it's sorry in thepast or in the future.
We are not in the present, sowe are disconnected from the
current reality.
And in the current reality.
That's when you can listen toyour emotions, your intuition,
(28:40):
you're knowing it's in the hereand now.
It's in the here and now whenyou can actually get connected
to your truth.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
It's not in your thoughts, it's in your body and
your presence yeah, and we livein a world that's designed or
rather it's kind of going awayto take us out the present,
because sometimes, rather thankind of be with myself, we'll
get distracted by, like ourphones and things like that.
And I think whenever I've goneoff on one where my mind's gone
off like a wild horse and thenif I just sit down and breathe
(29:10):
and then it kind of brings meback because, like you said,
it's not logical Just because wefought something doesn't mean
that's the actual reality and,like you said, we're biased from
our past thoughts.
So I'm mindful of the time.
I've got two more questions foryou, if I may.
Thoughts.
So I'm mindful of the time.
I've got two more questions foryou, if I may.
(29:31):
What is the one course of?
Speaker 2 (29:33):
action one could do today to make their life better.
So I would maybe go back towhat we were talking about
before.
You know the behaviour part.
If you identify yourself as apeople pleaser, then you feel
about relationships in a certaintype of way.
Relationships are challengingbecause there is the
self-abandonment and theself-sacrificing, but sometimes
(29:56):
it might not be immediate or,let's say, immediately
understandable for people oreasily identifiable.
So what I would do is I wouldgrab a piece of paper, write
wherever area of your life youhave a problem with which could
be work, family, friendship,love, loving, relationship,
romantic relationships and Iwill write what do you believe
(30:19):
about yourself for each of theseareas that you put down, what
do you believe about the otherfor each of these areas that I
put up, that you put down, andwhat do you believe about the
topic in general?
So, when it comes to love, forexample, what do you believe
about yourself when it comes tolove?
What do you believe about otherpeople when it comes to love,
(30:42):
and what do you believe aboutother people, about um when it
comes to love?
So other people obviouslyintend um, involving both people
who relate to you and otherpeople in general.
So some people come up withideas, like people are selfish,
for example, or people only careabout one thing, like no one is
able to love nowadays anymore.
You know these very extremebeliefs that people might have
(31:04):
and might impact on the way theyrelate.
Um, and then another thing.
The third question is what doyou believe about this specific
topic?
So what do you think what youbelieve about love?
And that usually, uh, bringspeople back to you.
You know their experience oflove, their first experiences of
love, which was obviouslyparental love or caretaker's
(31:26):
love.
It could have been peer grouplove, but also what they
witnessed, so how their parentsloved each other.
So that could be a firstexperience of love, and so it
can entangle many things of thepast that actually are showing
up in the area.
You're subconsciously, you'reunaware of it, but actually are
showing up in the area.
You're subconsciously, you'reunaware of it, but they are
still active in that, in thatarea, because our beliefs always
(31:47):
impact on the way we behave,whether we know it or whether we
don't know it.
They always have an impact.
So, in, if you, uh, if you have, if you're finding a certain
area challenging, it means thatyou're also in some way
participating subconsciously tothat dynamic.
So you need to find out yourpart oh, it's, this is really
(32:08):
helpful.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
And then if they write it down, then they can
look at it, I guess, and then ifsomething comes up again, kind
of refer to that and thinkactually is this yeah well, this
is like.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Oh well, that's brilliant yeah and then if you,
if you then do this exercise andyou look at your belief system
in any specific area and thenyou see your situation, your
concrete reality, then you canlink things and kind of get that
breakthrough.
Actually, this is a perfectbelief system for the type of
reality that I'm experiencingright now.
(32:40):
So that needs to be the linkhow your beliefs actually then
link to your realities.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Oh, it's a great way to knit it all together, as I
say.
So, ludovica, I know that ifI'm a listener and I want to
work for yourself, I know you'vehad a book out which you can
talk about as well, but what isthe best way?
If I'm listening now and Ithink I want to work with
ludovica, how can I reach out?
Speaker 2 (33:07):
and so I have a website which is lu-colecom, so
there there's lots ofinformation about what I do.
You will have access to mynewsletter, my social media and
also there is a contact form, soyou can just literally email me
(33:28):
from that contact form.
I am experiencing a bit ofissues with Instagram.
I think my profile has beenhacked, something like that.
Yeah, I don't have it.
It still exists, but I don'tcurrently have access to it.
But I also have that.
If people want to follow me on,there is ludovica, underscore,
colella, underscore coaching, soyou will find me.
(33:50):
Right now I'm not very active,but I will fix the issue soon.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Oh, that's hopefully being hot, but yes, hopefully
I'll get fixed very soon.
You've got a book out.
Uh, you, I wish I.
I.
I must confess I didn't realizeuntil before I sat down.
So I usually read my guestsbook.
So I will have a look and itlooks fantastic.
Could you explain a bit aboutyour book briefly?
Speaker 2 (34:11):
thank you, thank you actually that was a project that
I did with my one of one of mybest friends, but also at that
time, but also now, uh, we weretraining, training together a
cbt therapist and we decided tocreate a journal because we were
both very big on journaling,and it's called the feel good
journal, and so this journal hastwo parts.
(34:33):
Basically, the first part isjust a theory about cbt so how
to challenge your thoughts, howto improve your mood by the
things that you do.
So mood management, um, justvery general things about CBT,
but, I guess, easily digestible.
That's what we wanted to do.
We didn't want to create amanual about CBT, we wanted to
make it really light and fun.
(34:54):
And then, for the remaining partof the book, there is basically
52 weeks of prompts.
So every week you will have atheme like kindness, self-love,
love or friendship, anything,self-growth, empowerment, and so
you have three questions forevery theme.
And this is just a way of youknow, because we love journaling
(35:16):
so much.
It's a way of self-discovery.
It's a really easy step forpeople to take.
Most people who come to therapythey say that the first step
they take is actually journaling.
So we find that was that couldbe, you know a nice way to
introduce people toself-analyzing work or
self-reflection work, let's saybrilliant, and that's available.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Amazon worldwide yes, yes perfect.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
And just before that it goes, any final thoughts well
, no, I want to thank you verymuch to have me on your podcast.
Uh, it was really you made me.
You make people feel really atease, so it was great.
Thank you so much oh, thank you, ludovica.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
I really enjoyed having you on the show and um
I'll put a link into yourwebsite, but your work is,
you're very natural, your workis amazing and you're going to
help a lot of people.
Um, do stay tuned, listeners.
As always, there's a meditationinspired by today, but the one
and only ludovica colella.
Yes, thank you very much.
(36:18):
Top tips for the meditation iseither sit nice and cross-legged
on the floor with a nicestraight back always nice to sit
on a block or a cushion orthat's not available for you you
sit in a chair with the backnice and straight.
The important thing is you'renot slouching, and if you're
doing something that requiresyour concentration, all you need
(36:38):
to do is just pause this andyou can reconvene the meditation
at a time that is good for you.
If you're doing the meditation,let's begin.
So sit up tall, dear one andyou're going to close the eyes
and as you close the eyes, youimagine yourself walking to the
(36:59):
edge of the most beautifulancient lake.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Perhaps you are now in the ancient isle of Avalon in
the mystical town ofGlastonbury in the UK, or any
other lake be it one you'vephysically been to or one that's
in your imagination, but justsomething that you can relate to
(37:33):
.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
And as you walk to the edge of the lake, it's a
very calm day.
There isn't a ripple in thewater and there's a faint mist
in the air.
But as you get closer, the sunhas risen even higher in the sky
and it casts some beautifullight upon the lake.
(37:59):
And as you look into into thewater, the water is the most
crystal clear that you have everseen this lake and you start to
slow the breath down, taking inthe surroundings taking in the
moment and there's a naturalseat right next to the edge of
(38:23):
the lake.
It can be whatever it is in yourimagination perhaps it's some
grass, perhaps it's a verycomfortable large stone,
something that you can sit on,and as you sit on the edge of
this lake, you just watch thewater, watch the crystal clear
water flowing and being withvery small ripples of water
(38:51):
every now and again on thisextra calm day, and you look
into the lake and you see yourreflection.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
and as you look at your reflection, you whisper the
words I love you, I love you, Ilove you and you continue to
tell yourself that, as you catchyour reflection, that you love
(39:27):
and honor yourself completely inthe moment and you continue,
and as you do that, you smile,even if you don't fully believe
it yet.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
remember, as Einstein always says everything starts
with imagination and if youimagine it, the self-love will
be there.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
So I love you.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
And just think to the water as you reflect.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
You are perfect, perfect in every way you are
alive.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
You are unique, yet you are part of a greater,
greater plan a greater energyand just continue and say I love
me, I love myself, I love youand the reason you say I love
(40:36):
you and talk about yourself inthird person is because it's
your higher self tellingyourself that you love yourself.
And just for a moment, justfeel how it feels to be held by
the love of self-acceptance andthen very calmly say thank you
(41:05):
to yourself, thank you to yourlake, and then just start to
come back into the room, takesome slow, calm, deep breaths in
and out through the nostrilsand go forth dear one, you
wonderful being.
Hello everybody, I'm your host, the Gentle Yoga
Warrior, and this is AwakenedConscious Conversations podcast,
and joining us shortly, all theway from Italy, is Ludovica
Colella, and Ludovica is goingto talk about something that she
is an expert in and that istoday.
(00:20):
We are going to talk aboutbreaking free from people
pleasing and people pleasing issomething that I can relate to.
When one is trying to navigateone's path and people expect
things from us which we don'tnecessarily want to do, or
(00:40):
commitments that we don'tnecessarily want to have, and
taking into account one's ownfeelings and the person's
feelings, it can be quite atricky road to navigate, so
that's why I'm especiallyexcited to speak to Ludovica on
this subject matter.
Before Ludovica comes online, Iwould just like to share a bit
about this wonderful person.
(01:02):
My only regret is that I wasgoing through my research and I
realized that Ludovic is also anauthor of the Feel Good Journal
, and I've only been able toread a little bit of it and it
seemed brilliant so far, and Ithink it's one that I'm going to
put on my Christmas list forsome of my friends and family.
It looks an exceptionallybrilliant book, because I think
(01:25):
the reason I think it looks sucha good book is because we spend
so much of our life trying topeople, please people, and it's
not always to our own benefitsto do such a thing.
Ludovica will be able to explaina bit more, but I just want to
give you a bit of backstoryabout Ludovica.
So she has been a CBT therapistfor over 10 years in the mental
(01:48):
health field.
I know that she began hercareer working for the NHS in
London and she has sinceexpanded into a life of coaching
and Ludovica is deeplycommitted to empowering
individuals to liberatethemselves from the grip of
perfectionism andpeople-pleasing tendencies.
(02:09):
I think it's changed that wewere brought up as girls to be
like, oh, don't rock the boat,kind of like, please, everyone,
be a good girl, be happy, smiley, and that we have to be kind of
perfect all the time.
Or we kind of got this the worldfrom the Victorian era where
(02:30):
Lisa Cole woman had hysteria andthey would put them in mental
hospital, all these awful thingsthey would do to women.
It was like an illness, femalehysteria and all that kind of
thing.
And maybe, I don't know, maybeit's echoes from that time when
we were kind of worried to beourselves in case we were kind
of cascaded for it and I'm veryexcited to hear what Ludovica
(02:52):
has to say on this matter.
Dear listeners, without furtherado, ludovica Tolela yes, ah,
fantastic, I was a bit nervousabout the pronunciation of that.
So thank you, ludovica, thankyou Perfect pronunciation.
Oh, thank you so welcome to theshow.
I have been very keen to getyou on the show, especially the
(03:15):
field that you're an expert in.
So, dear listeners, as I saidearlier, we're going to talk
today about breaking free frompeople pleasing, and I think
it's something that we can allbe very guilty of for all
numbers of reasons.
But, dear Ludovica, would youmind explaining your journey so
far and what inspired you totalk about this today?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, that's a very interesting question, because I
could talk about so many things,so many breakthroughs, so many
examples, but essentially, atsome point in my life, I
realized that I was living alife according to other people's
rules.
And you know, when you havethat huge goal of yours that you
(03:57):
really want to achieve and youthink, oh, when I will get there
, I'll be so satisfied withmyself.
And then you get there.
And you get there even beforethe time that you planned before
, like you had even theresources, but you get there, uh
, and after all the the hardwork, you think, is that it?
You know, is that, is that howI'm supposed to feel?
(04:18):
Because obviously, happinesswas there, but it was
short-lived, it didn't give methat sense of worth,
satisfaction, value that I wasexpecting to receive.
And so I started asking myselfsome questions like what was I
hoping to feel by getting hereand who is this goal?
Um, who's this goal, basically?
(04:40):
Who talked me into this?
Because I love my job and Ireally don't imagine myself
doing anything different, but Ihad this idea of a timeline that
I had to achieve by 30 yearsold.
By that age, I have to achieve acertain number of things, and
my goal at that point was tobecome a therapist, to live in
(05:00):
London, have my own office anddo my own things, like as a
private therapist, and Iachieved that by the age of 29.
And so when I stopped after Iachieved that, I thought there's
something, there's stillsomething missing.
So it's almost like I was theyou know, the hamster on the
wheel, always running aftersomething.
(05:20):
And I had to do lots ofself-analysis there when at some
point I realized there was aninherited rule that I got from
somewhere, someone in my familywho was convinced that in order
to live a happy life, I had tobe just running after things,
(05:40):
basically have the ambition,have the drive, do the be the
best at what you do.
And so I kind of lived my lifein a state of survival, you know
, running after the things thatI thought I had to want in a way
.
And so after I achieved thosethings, I was like this is not
(06:02):
mine, like I felt like a senseof disconnection like ever
before.
And it was a bit difficultbecause obviously you spent
maybe 10, 20 years of your lifethinking that's your goal and
then, once you achieve it, yourealize it's not.
And so similar experienceshappened also in relationships
when I actually realized allthese things that I'm doing, why
(06:24):
am I doing them?
Am I outsourcing my sense ofvalue to other people?
Am I expecting people toconfirm that I am worth it, that
I'm lovable, that I'm likable,that I belong, and so that's
when I realized, actually, thatit needs to come from within.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
That's a great journey and the way you were
able to see, um, you weren'tfulfilled and and actually we
can go for all these things, butit does ultimately come from
within.
Why do you think so many of usare kind of people pleasers?
I know that I have done in thepast.
I think, something to do withpossibly sorry, possibly my
(07:01):
parents or someone saying I'llbe a good girl, like kind of
keep all the peace, and thingslike that.
But going back to my question,why so many people please us?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I think there are lots of experiences that people
can have that can lead them tothink that other people are more
important than themselves,because essentially, people
pleasing is a form ofself-abandonment.
So I would start by saying thatone of the first things that
people experience or myexperience, if there are
people-pleasers are is a veryconditional love from their
(07:35):
parents.
Now, I'm always very carefulwhen I use this word conditional
love, because In human form, Ithink all love is conditional.
We love people because thereare conditions.
You marry someone, you sign acontract, so there are terms and
conditions.
So you have friendships becausethey are reciprocal in some
ways.
There is a give and take, sothere are always conditions.
(07:57):
But a parent can make theseconditions really strict and
really harsh and set very highstandards for their children,
sometimes without even knowingit, to the point that the child
obviously doesn't have theability to challenge the parent,
so would just end up acceptingwhatever the parent is saying
(08:19):
that's true and whatever rulethey are giving the child and
will almost blindly follow themand then build a personality, an
entire personality, aroundthose qualities.
And this happens for men andfor women alike, but I think
that specifically for women,there is more of an emphasis
(08:40):
towards self-sacrifice, uh,sacrificing for people around
them.
Um, you know, being nice,polite, accommodating, don't be
a burden, don't shout, don't askfor what you need, uh, be
non-confrontational, you know,just basically chill, just be
less shrink, um, and I think, ifwe really want to take this
(09:02):
further, I think collectively,this is a problem for everyone,
so also for men, because alsomen have emotions, right, but
when it comes to women, they areallowed to, they're more
allowed than men to expresstheir emotions, but at the same
time they should give up almostanything to for the other, to
care for the other.
And there is this idea thatwomen are wired for to care for
(09:26):
other people, which, again, Ithink is problematic in itself
because that would imply thatmen aren't, but I think that
caring is non-gendered, uh.
But there is this ideacollectively, but also at level
of, um, you know, the family,the society, that women should
be just nice, you know nice, anddo not, don't rock the boat,
(09:49):
you know uh, which then it canin turn create women that I have
what I call, but it's not likeI call it that way.
I think it's a thing, um, youknow the good girl syndrome.
So just be nice, be good anddon't rock the boat.
Everything will be fine, andit's not like that.
Obviously, everything won't befine definitely not.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
It makes you think of the time, you know, in the
victorian times, where these arekind of like lock women up and
this is called female hysteria,because if they didn't kind of
conform to like being thesequiet, good, well-behaved women,
then there was something wrongwith them, when really we're a
whole range of our emotions,aren't we?
And to kind of suppress a sideof it, I guess that's what the
(10:33):
good girl syndrome is.
Is there anything else you'dlike to add on the good girl
syndrome at all?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
no, I agree with you that it's a suppression,
basically, um, and then it turnsinto women developing a
distorted feminine, because,yeah, so they become like united
dimensional.
I don't know if you say that inenglish, I guess you do, but
you know they become just forthe other, when actually the
(11:00):
feminine itself is not for theother, it's for itself.
But the distorted feminine then, when it relates, it can go
into manipulation and controland essentially this is what
people pleasing is.
So I try to control how youfeel about me, what you think
about me, just because I try tomake you happy all the time.
I make you a priority.
I'm expecting you to do thesame, but also, if you don't do
(11:23):
the same, I'm disappointed,because why aren't you putting
me as a priority, as I am?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
yeah, that's, that's.
That's really interesting tohear, and and um, but very wise,
because it is we kind of.
It is upon manipulation, isn'tit?
People pleasing?
And yet so many of us do itbecause it's like this learned
behavior.
So how would one get out ofbeing that good girl syndrome?
What was the one thing thatthey could do?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
the first thing that I would do is I would try to
identify the main core belief.
So we all have core beliefs,positive and negative.
When it comes to peoplepleasing, usually the negative
core belief can fall under I'munlovable, I'm unlikable, I
don't belong.
Also, sometimes going to morelike a perfectionism type of
(12:13):
thing.
So I'm incompetent, I'm notsmart, I am not like.
Other people are better than me.
So this is like the summary ofthe main core beliefs.
So first of all, I willidentify what do you believe
about yourself?
What is your self-concept?
How?
Basically, when something goeswrong, let's say in your
(12:37):
relationships, what's the firstthought that comes into your
mind?
Like I knew it.
I deserve this, I knew it.
No one likes me, no one wantsme.
So these are all cues to digdeeper, understand what your
core beliefs are and then, onceyou have identified your core
belief which can also be, forexample, I'm worthless, I'm
useless.
That's also.
These are also very, verycommon ones.
(12:59):
Um, sometimes people um stop atthe level of I'm not good enough
.
This is a very common beliefthat people talk about, but it's
not good enough.
If we dig deeper and if weunpack that, there is always
something more to that.
So we really need to figure outnot good enough in what sense?
(13:19):
Usually, with people pleasing,there is a big emphasis on
external validation.
So again, the sense of selfvalue is outsourced.
So you, uh, I need that textfrom that person to feel better
about myself.
I need to get that jobpromotion to feel better about
myself.
I need to get that amount ofmoney so I know that I'm worth
(13:40):
it.
Right, so that becomes um kindof shows up as a series of
behaviors that are basically ledby this belief system.
So if the tip of the iceberg ofthe belief system is, let's say
, I am unlovable, then we shouldstart asking ourselves in what
ways my brain is trying to makeme feel lovable or make me feel
(14:05):
loved oh, I like that, so kindof focus on the part, like the
positive part yeah and then justkind of jumping into this past
behavior.
Yes, you will go into, becauseobviously, if you have a
negative beliefs, like I'munlovable, then your mind is
already in survival mode tryingto protect you from that.
So what is it that you're doingto feel lovable?
(14:27):
Um, one thing can be oh, I putother people's first, so I want
to make people happy, forexample.
Okay, so I want to make peoplehappy.
Sounds like a very good rule tohave in one's life, but that
can be taken way too far.
So when, when, how do you makeother people happy all the time?
What is it that you do?
And then you startunderstanding.
(14:48):
You know, making a list,literally, of all your behavior.
So I don't ask for what I need,I try not to be a burden, I
don't talk to people when I'msad, I don't ask for help, I
don't delegate.
I make other people's priority.
All the time, I adjust my plansfor other people.
So then you will see that lotsof behaviors will start coming
(15:11):
up that indicate what youactually tangibly, concretely do
in your day-to-day life.
And then, slowly, you startchanging these behaviors.
Obviously, you would start withthe situation that feels safe
with a person.
Maybe that feels safe.
So maybe we could starttargeting behaviors.
Like I never ask for help.
Okay, is there a time that youcould ask for help that feels
(15:35):
low stakes for you, a personthat you could ask for help that
you know that will be there foryou?
And so we'll start with thesesmall behavioral experiments.
And when we do people, lots ofother thoughts, other worries,
other emotions will come up.
And when we do people, lots ofother thoughts, other worries,
other emotions will come up.
And then we can heal them.
Because as soon as long as yourtrauma, let's say it's covered
(15:56):
up by all these behaviors thatnow are forming these people,
pleaser personality, quoteunquote then it will feel like
your life works because for yourmind it works.
You're surviving right.
So that's what your mind caresabout.
You're surviving right.
But in reality, in the longterm, that's causing you lots of
problems.
You're constantly doubting yourrelationships.
You never feel safe in yourrelationships.
(16:18):
You always feel like you haveto show other people things.
You have to constantly performokay in a way.
And so when we start changingthese behaviors, obviously
anything that comes up likeemotions anger, guilt, sadness,
(16:38):
anxiety is a very common one.
Obviously these were allemotions that were linked to
your first trauma, and then wecan heal them once we uncover
them.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Basically oh, it's brilliant.
I love.
I'm really enjoying thisinterview.
It's fantastic thank you, me tooI do have a question from a
viewer, mary, if I can read itout at all.
I've got a question.
She says that she works nearthe partner of her husband's
friend.
So everyone seems keen for herto be friends because obviously
(17:10):
her husband's friend is herhusband's partner, friend's
partner.
But she's tried but she doesn'tfeel that she is a match.
And she's tried to distanceherself but the person's not
getting the hint.
And now she feels stressedbecause she's trying to please
all these people watching yeah,it feels like Mary.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Everyone, everyone wants a piece of Mary, everyone
wants something from Mary.
Um, the nice thing about thisquestion, I guess, is that the
person understood that the otherperson had the need and tried
to compromise.
So, you see, often peoplepleasers just compromising or,
let's say, adapting to the otherperson's demands as a first
(17:56):
response, and in this case Imean we could say that it can be
acceptable, right?
If someone asks you, do youwant to try and hang out with
this person Because you knowit's someone in our circle,
whatever?
Then fine, why not?
But then something happens,right.
So either things go well orthings do not go well.
In this case, mary's not happy,and so there's something about
(18:17):
this relationship now that istriggering Mary out of balance,
and this is now Mary's problemmore than anyone else's.
So you know, and Mary shouldtreat this problem as her
problem first.
So how do I solve this?
Do I need to set someboundaries?
Am I abandoning myself, meaning, am I ignoring the way I feel
(18:39):
just to please other people?
And how could I set healthyboundaries and reiterate them,
because maybe she, she will needto do that in a way that, you
know, it's kind, not rude, butstill is firm.
So I guess at this stage,mary's already experiencing the
difficulty, the challenge ofbeing having pleased or having
(18:59):
tried to please someone.
Also, when we try to do that,we quickly find out that people
are never really pleased and inthe meanwhile we are not pleased
, neither with the with theoutcome, you know.
So I would definitelydefinitely suggest to this
person to check in with heremotion, do a quick energy check
.
How do I feel about this?
What would I want that personto know from me?
(19:21):
And set the boundary clearlywith her husband, with her
friend, with whoever she needsto set it, because she needs to
protect her own space too oh,perfect answer, thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Thank you, I'm sure you'll find that really helpful.
Um, so I know, louis vicar, yousaid that you were, you went
through these things, and thenyou, you realized that you
wanted to work um within, andthe turning point was you
achieved, achieved these things.
How did you, what did younavigate?
Well, how did you change fromthen, from that point where you
(19:53):
kind of you're sitting in youroffice, you've achieved
everything you want, and how didyou pivot it to work more
within yourself?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
so I think you reach a point in life and it might be
about your career, about yourrelationships in which you start
seeing things that you cannotunsee anymore.
So even when you try to ignorethose things, then they come.
They come nagging back all thetime and honestly, I don't think
(20:24):
I deserve that, because, afterall the hard work I put to be
happy like that wasn't somethingI wasn't available to be
unhappy just to satisfy someoneelse's dream and I maybe didn't
mention that before, I'll say itnow my father studied
psychology at 20 years old andhe had to leave university at 21
(20:46):
because he had me.
So for all my life, all he toldme about was how wonderful
studying psychology was, that hereally liked it, that I would
have loved it, he would buy tome psychology books, so he would
really.
He really encouraged me.
In this case I'm saying becauseobviously I this job, but he
(21:08):
really pushed towards it too.
So in a way, I grew up withpsychology books, like I was
reading Freud at 13.
What was I understanding?
Nothing, really not much.
But that's always been mypassion, passion, um, and so
(21:29):
once I achieved that in the citywhere I said I want to live
here, when I was 13 years old.
Um, everything in my mindshould have, should have been
perfect and it wasn't.
And the and when I thought aboutmaybe I should change place of
work simply, maybe this doesn'tfit me anymore, maybe I should,
uh, study another kind oftherapy, maybe this is not my
type of therapy, maybe I shouldchange CT, maybe I should change
(21:52):
something about my life that Idon't know what it is and I will
find out.
It's fine if I don't have allthe answers, but when I asked
myself these questions and I gotchills so this is true the
first thing that came to my mindwas the first thing that came
to my mind was now I need totell my dad that was the first
(22:13):
automatic thought.
What would my dad think aboutthis change?
And so I started understandingthat he was a very predominant
presence in my mind, in my life,a lot more than he was supposed
to be.
Um, and so I started doing somework around that, which then
involved also moving.
Moving involved changing themodality of my work and involved
(22:35):
also therapy going to therapymyself.
Um, and my relationship with myfather changed to a point that
now is non-existent anymore,because that's when I started
setting boundaries about.
You know what I want and mydesires, um, and when people
relate to you, uh, in a way thatin a controlling way, they
(22:59):
can't really accept your freedomof choice, um, that's just the
only thing, that the only optionthat you have is to do that.
But I want to say to peopleplease are listening, not to get
discouraged, because that'salso I mean, it's difficult,
because one of the worries thatwe have as people pleasers when
we stop being so accommodating,is that people will hate us,
(23:22):
will abandon us and no one willlike us.
This isn't true.
The good relationships in yourlife will improve and thrive.
The bad relationships, thetoxic relationships, the
controlling relationships, theseare the ones that you're not
going to be a match to anymore,so these will leave your life oh
yeah, and this is what happenedto me basically
Speaker 1 (23:44):
wow, but it's very brave that you did that, but
also it it's very authentic andsometimes that sometimes people
think because it's apparent thatyou have to kind of put up with
things that aren't in alignment, but it's if we're going to be
completely authenticallyourselves and everything has to
match and if not, we're justcompromising ourselves.
(24:04):
So I think it's very brave andand thank you for speaking so
candidly about that and, um,dear listeners, I, I, I mirror
that in the sense that, um, thepeople that are meant to be when
we're authentic ourself will bein our lives, and the people
that that I want to becontrolling or whatever they,
they won't be in lives and andthat's okay.
(24:25):
I think that's okay.
I think that's okay, that's, itis okay.
It's just to completely beourselves.
So, people, pleasing is like aresponse to trauma, is.
I guess it stems back tochildhood, is it?
Or it could be any age, I guessI think it's very.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
It's um.
When we talk about beliefsystems, you know they form
around seven to ten years old.
So we always as therapists, ofcourse, but in general we we
know that childhood experiencesare always very significant.
So anything that happensbetween that age or before 10
years old, it will shape the wayyou think about yourself and
(25:04):
about other people and aboutrelationships.
But also, I guess, other thingscan happen later on that can
make your people pleaser.
It can be a very demanding jobthat forces you to basically
abandon your life completely andkind of puts you in this again
hamster wheel of having toperform all the time.
Hamster wheel of having toperform all the time.
(25:30):
It can be an abusiverelationship with someone who
every day tries to make you feelbad about yourself and then you
feel like you have to pleasethem to get that validation, or
it can be anything else.
It can be a peer experience.
It can be bullying, for example, where you start thinking at
some point that people don'tlike you, so you have to be
different from who you are.
But there is always a time inwhich we disconnect from who we
are because we think that's theright thing to do for the
(25:53):
survival in that moment, andprobably in that moment was the
right thing to do for survival.
And then we carry that behaviorbecause in the meanwhile we
feel, the brain feels like, okay, so this was good at that time,
when we needed the mask ofpeople pleasing, when we needed
the good girl mask, we wore itand we survived.
And so then we carry that withus, we carry that with us and
(26:16):
and the whole personality getsbuilt around that.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Um, so it can be different experiences, I guess,
but what they all have in commonis the self-abandonment part
right, and that's where thepeople pleasing comes, because
we've abandoned a part ofourself to kind of fit into the
mold of what's happening and thechild didn't.
We carry that through intoadulthood and that's where
someone like yourself, ludovica,that can help people kind of
(26:40):
untangle that and and and findfind themselves.
Is this something you wisheveryone in the world knew, and
what is it I?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
wish that everyone knew that the mind is not so
logical and the emotions are notso irrational.
Ah that's what I think.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
So logical and the emotions are not so rational.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Yeah well, I'm a psychotherapist, right?
So you wouldn't expect maybethis from a CBT therapist that
is heavily reliant on.
Let's reframe your thoughts,let's look at balancing your
thoughts and having morefunctional thoughts, and it's
important to do that at somestage, specifically when we're
talking about clinicaldepression or clinical anxiety
(27:33):
clinical anxiety, but then um,in my work as a coach, instead,
I realized that the mind thinksall the time, right, so that's
the I see the heart beats themind things.
So the quicker you can learn todetach from it, to come back to
your center and be grounded andstay with your emotions, with
with your body, the quicker youlearn to do that, the easier
your life will be.
Because if that's the numberone skill that I think everyone
(27:54):
should learn, is to detach fromtheir mind.
Thoughts are rarely logical.
They are most often biased,conditioned by our experiences,
influenced by the environment,so logic is not really part of
the picture.
I'm telling you as a therapist,the amount of negative thoughts
that people have that theythink is logical is crazy.
Like negative thoughts, bydefinition, are extreme and, um,
(28:18):
inflexible.
So how can they be logical?
But then we spend most of ourtime worrying about things and
having negative thoughts, and soit means that we are in the
present or, it's sorry in thepast or in the future.
We are not in the present, sowe are disconnected from the
current reality.
And in the current reality.
That's when you can listen toyour emotions, your intuition,
(28:40):
you're knowing it's in the hereand now.
It's in the here and now whenyou can actually get connected
to your truth.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
It's not in your thoughts, it's in your body and
your presence yeah, and we livein a world that's designed or
rather it's kind of going awayto take us out the present,
because sometimes, rather thankind of be with myself, we'll
get distracted by, like ourphones and things like that.
And I think whenever I've goneoff on one where my mind's gone
off like a wild horse and thenif I just sit down and breathe
(29:10):
and then it kind of brings meback because, like you said,
it's not logical Just because wefought something doesn't mean
that's the actual reality and,like you said, we're biased from
our past thoughts.
So I'm mindful of the time.
I've got two more questions foryou, if I may.
Thoughts.
So I'm mindful of the time.
I've got two more questions foryou, if I may.
(29:31):
What is the one course of?
Speaker 2 (29:33):
action one could do today to make their life better.
So I would maybe go back towhat we were talking about
before.
You know the behaviour part.
If you identify yourself as apeople pleaser, then you feel
about relationships in a certaintype of way.
Relationships are challengingbecause there is the
self-abandonment and theself-sacrificing, but sometimes
(29:56):
it might not be immediate or,let's say, immediately
understandable for people oreasily identifiable.
So what I would do is I wouldgrab a piece of paper, write
wherever area of your life youhave a problem with which could
be work, family, friendship,love, loving, relationship,
romantic relationships and Iwill write what do you believe
(30:19):
about yourself for each of theseareas that you put down, what
do you believe about the otherfor each of these areas that I
put up, that you put down, andwhat do you believe about the
topic in general?
So, when it comes to love, forexample, what do you believe
about yourself when it comes tolove?
What do you believe about otherpeople when it comes to love,
(30:42):
and what do you believe aboutother people, about um when it
comes to love?
So other people obviouslyintend um, involving both people
who relate to you and otherpeople in general.
So some people come up withideas, like people are selfish,
for example, or people only careabout one thing, like no one is
able to love nowadays anymore.
You know these very extremebeliefs that people might have
(31:04):
and might impact on the way theyrelate.
Um, and then another thing.
The third question is what doyou believe about this specific
topic?
So what do you think what youbelieve about love?
And that usually, uh, bringspeople back to you.
You know their experience oflove, their first experiences of
love, which was obviouslyparental love or caretaker's
(31:26):
love.
It could have been peer grouplove, but also what they
witnessed, so how their parentsloved each other.
So that could be a firstexperience of love, and so it
can entangle many things of thepast that actually are showing
up in the area.
You're subconsciously, you'reunaware of it, but actually are
showing up in the area.
You're subconsciously, you'reunaware of it, but they are
still active in that, in thatarea, because our beliefs always
(31:47):
impact on the way we behave,whether we know it or whether we
don't know it.
They always have an impact.
So, in, if you, uh, if you have, if you're finding a certain
area challenging, it means thatyou're also in some way
participating subconsciously tothat dynamic.
So you need to find out yourpart oh, it's, this is really
(32:08):
helpful.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
And then if they write it down, then they can
look at it, I guess, and then ifsomething comes up again, kind
of refer to that and thinkactually is this yeah well, this
is like.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Oh well, that's brilliant yeah and then if you,
if you then do this exercise andyou look at your belief system
in any specific area and thenyou see your situation, your
concrete reality, then you canlink things and kind of get that
breakthrough.
Actually, this is a perfectbelief system for the type of
reality that I'm experiencingright now.
(32:40):
So that needs to be the linkhow your beliefs actually then
link to your realities.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Oh, it's a great way to knit it all together, as I
say.
So, ludovica, I know that ifI'm a listener and I want to
work for yourself, I know you'vehad a book out which you can
talk about as well, but what isthe best way?
If I'm listening now and Ithink I want to work with
ludovica, how can I reach out?
Speaker 2 (33:07):
and so I have a website which is lu-colecom, so
there there's lots ofinformation about what I do.
You will have access to mynewsletter, my social media and
also there is a contact form, soyou can just literally email me
(33:28):
from that contact form.
I am experiencing a bit ofissues with Instagram.
I think my profile has beenhacked, something like that.
Yeah, I don't have it.
It still exists, but I don'tcurrently have access to it.
But I also have that.
If people want to follow me on,there is ludovica, underscore,
colella, underscore coaching, soyou will find me.
(33:50):
Right now I'm not very active,but I will fix the issue soon.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Oh, that's hopefully being hot, but yes, hopefully
I'll get fixed very soon.
You've got a book out.
Uh, you, I wish I.
I.
I must confess I didn't realizeuntil before I sat down.
So I usually read my guestsbook.
So I will have a look and itlooks fantastic.
Could you explain a bit aboutyour book briefly?
Speaker 2 (34:11):
thank you, thank you actually that was a project that
I did with my one of one of mybest friends, but also at that
time, but also now, uh, we weretraining, training together a
cbt therapist and we decided tocreate a journal because we were
both very big on journaling,and it's called the feel good
journal, and so this journal hastwo parts.
(34:33):
Basically, the first part isjust a theory about cbt so how
to challenge your thoughts, howto improve your mood by the
things that you do.
So mood management, um, justvery general things about CBT,
but, I guess, easily digestible.
That's what we wanted to do.
We didn't want to create amanual about CBT, we wanted to
make it really light and fun.
(34:54):
And then, for the remaining partof the book, there is basically
52 weeks of prompts.
So every week you will have atheme like kindness, self-love,
love or friendship, anything,self-growth, empowerment, and so
you have three questions forevery theme.
And this is just a way of youknow, because we love journaling
(35:16):
so much.
It's a way of self-discovery.
It's a really easy step forpeople to take.
Most people who come to therapythey say that the first step
they take is actually journaling.
So we find that was that couldbe, you know a nice way to
introduce people toself-analyzing work or
self-reflection work, let's saybrilliant, and that's available.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Amazon worldwide yes, yes perfect.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
And just before that it goes, any final thoughts well
, no, I want to thank you verymuch to have me on your podcast.
Uh, it was really you made me.
You make people feel really atease, so it was great.
Thank you so much oh, thank you, ludovica.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
I really enjoyed having you on the show and um
I'll put a link into yourwebsite, but your work is,
you're very natural, your workis amazing and you're going to
help a lot of people.
Um, do stay tuned, listeners.
As always, there's a meditationinspired by today, but the one
and only ludovica colella.
Yes, thank you very much.
(36:18):
Top tips for the meditation iseither sit nice and cross-legged
on the floor with a nicestraight back always nice to sit
on a block or a cushion orthat's not available for you you
sit in a chair with the backnice and straight.
The important thing is you'renot slouching, and if you're
doing something that requiresyour concentration, all you need
(36:38):
to do is just pause this andyou can reconvene the meditation
at a time that is good for you.
If you're doing the meditation,let's begin.
So sit up tall, dear one andyou're going to close the eyes
and as you close the eyes, youimagine yourself walking to the
(36:59):
edge of the most beautifulancient lake.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Perhaps you are now in the ancient isle of Avalon in
the mystical town ofGlastonbury in the UK, or any
other lake be it one you'vephysically been to or one that's
in your imagination, but justsomething that you can relate to
(37:33):
.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
And as you walk to the edge of the lake, it's a
very calm day.
There isn't a ripple in thewater and there's a faint mist
in the air.
But as you get closer, the sunhas risen even higher in the sky
and it casts some beautifullight upon the lake.
(37:59):
And as you look into into thewater, the water is the most
crystal clear that you have everseen this lake and you start to
slow the breath down, taking inthe surroundings taking in the
moment and there's a naturalseat right next to the edge of
(38:23):
the lake.
It can be whatever it is in yourimagination perhaps it's some
grass, perhaps it's a verycomfortable large stone,
something that you can sit on,and as you sit on the edge of
this lake, you just watch thewater, watch the crystal clear
water flowing and being withvery small ripples of water
(38:51):
every now and again on thisextra calm day, and you look
into the lake and you see yourreflection.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
and as you look at your reflection, you whisper the
words I love you, I love you, Ilove you and you continue to
tell yourself that, as you catchyour reflection, that you love
(39:27):
and honor yourself completely inthe moment and you continue,
and as you do that, you smile,even if you don't fully believe
it yet.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
remember, as Einstein always says everything starts
with imagination and if youimagine it, the self-love will
be there.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
So I love you.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
And just think to the water as you reflect.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
You are perfect, perfect in every way you are
alive.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
You are unique, yet you are part of a greater,
greater plan a greater energyand just continue and say I love
me, I love myself, I love youand the reason you say I love
(40:36):
you and talk about yourself inthird person is because it's
your higher self tellingyourself that you love yourself.
And just for a moment, justfeel how it feels to be held by
the love of self-acceptance andthen very calmly say thank you
(41:05):
to yourself, thank you to yourlake, and then just start to
come back into the room, takesome slow, calm, deep breaths in
and out through the nostrilsand go forth dear one, you
wonderful being.
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