July 14, 2025 • 44 mins
What do rock legends like Bob Dylan, Frank Sinatra, and Mick Jagger have in common with your journey toward self-fulfillment? Find out more with this week's special guest Dr. Glenn Berger, who draws powerful life lessons from his extraordinary career path spanning from recording studio engineer to psychotherapist.
Berger's transformational story begins at age 17, working alongside music icons. Despite the glamour, the "sex, drugs, and rock 'n' roll" lifestyle eventually led to personal destruction. His pivotal moment came at Ellis Island, where his immigrant grandfather's sacrifice inspired him to completely reinvent himself. This radical shift launched his 25-year career helping others overcome their own stuckness.
Through his work with clients and his personal journey, Berger identified six key characteristics that keep people trapped and offers practical, evidence-based approaches to overcome each obstacle.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, I'm your host, the Gentle Yoga
Warrior, and this is AwakenedConscious Conversations podcast,
and joining us soon all the wayfrom the USA will be the one
and only Dr Glenn Berger.
And Dr Glenn Berger has a veryinteresting life and when he was
younger he was in the musicindustry as an engineer and
(00:22):
producer.
On his first day in the musicindustry he met the legend James
Brown.
He's worked with Rock, rowdy,dylan, sinatra, jagger, to name
but a few, and what theseartists taught him?
He realized that it held a keyto success in life and he
brought it into his program forself-realization.
(00:43):
He pivoted careers and became apsychotherapist coach for over
25 years.
He was very young when he gotinto the music industry and I've
been reading his book Never Sayno to a Rockstar and I think it
really captures that, thatexcitement, but also all the
elements of the, the musicindustry, and I've just started
(01:04):
it, but from what I've read sofar, I find it deeply moving and
I'm really looking forward tohearing more about it and we're
going to help you do this andhow to get everything you want
in your life, in a sense, how tonavigate through that kind of
sticky stuckness that we can getinto, which can feels a bit
more gluey and hardened glue aswe get older, right, and so my
(01:28):
wish for you today, dearlisteners, is to find a way to
kind of navigate through allthis, and that would be
fantastic for all of us.
So I'm very much lookingforward to speaking to Dr Glenn
Berger, and he's going to shareall kinds of different things of
how he's going to be able tohelp us, and I would like him to
(01:49):
share with us today how we'regoing to navigate through that
Before it comes on air.
You know, sometimes we getstuck in life and we think life
each day can be a bit mundane.
I've always found my way ofgetting stuckness is to look
into nature, like earlier.
If I hadn't been sittingquietly in like one spot, I
(02:10):
would never have spotted it.
A little leaf cutter bee camepast me and had a.
I didn't get a photographbecause I was sitting meditating
, but it had a little leaf in itand then it was burying into my
strawberry pox and drawnstrawberries and it was making
its little nest.
And I looked online.
They don't live for very long.
I think it's about six weeks,and if it's a female one, she'd
(02:33):
be laying a nest, or it could bemale, but I've got a feeling
that it's a female one and ifit's warm it doesn't take very
long for the, the little babybees, to be ready and out in the
world.
And the reason I was sharingthis was that that is a way to
kind of get out of the mundaneand stuckness that we may have
in in life in so many ways, andthat's why I really want to
(02:55):
share that with you today.
And it sounds like, oh, alittle thing, but it's quite a
big thing because this is alittle creature that's been
really resourceful and hasmanaged to quite dig a hole.
And I'm going to be verycareful when I walk around that
stroke because of the bee, butit's.
I find that really fascinatingand uplifting.
There are ways that I find Ifeel less stuck, so maybe
(03:20):
everything's not working exactlyhow I want it to be, but then I
can find little miracles.
So things like that nature isalways a miracle to me.
So I'm very intrigued to findout from you, dear listener,
what a miracle is for you,without further ado, dr Glenn
Berger.
Welcome to the show, glenn.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Oh, it's such an honor.
And where are you joining ustoday?
Oh, I'm in uh pleasantville,new york oh wow, well, welcome,
welcome, thank you so we thoughtwhat better person to speak to
us today than yourself on how toget everything you want in life
and get out of that stuckfeeling first?
First of all, would you mindsharing a bit about your journey
(04:05):
so far and what inspired you?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Absolutely so.
When I was 17 years old, I wasblessed to get an internship
working at one of the greatestrecording studios in the world,
a place called A&R Studios, andI ended up being mentored by one
of the greatest producers ofthat time, a man named Phil
Ramone Lifetime AchievementGrammy Award winning guy, and I
ended up working with peoplelike Bob Dylan and Frank Sinatra
(04:32):
and Mick Jagger and Steely Danand so many great artists from
that time, and it was reallyquite an extraordinary
experience for a young man likeme, and I learned so much about
how to make great art and howthose great artists did their
work to achieve so much.
At the same time, it was, asthey say, a place of drug, sex
(04:57):
and rock and roll, and it was apretty tough place to work as
well.
The demands were very extremeand the way that I was treated
was not you couldn't, youwouldn't be allowed to treat
somebody the way today, the wayI was treated back then and
eventually, after being in thebusiness for many years, I
pretty much destroyed my life.
(05:17):
I destroyed a marriage withinfidelity, I was taking drugs
every day and I was completelylost.
And it was my 37th birthday andI was out with some friends and
I was mo drugs every day and Iwas completely lost.
And it was my 37th birthday andI was out with some friends and
I was moaning and groaning whatshould I do with my life?
I'm completely lost.
And there was a woman there whohad a migraine headache.
She was passed out on the tableand she lifted her head and she
(05:39):
said go to Ellis Island.
Now for those of you, yourlisteners, who may not know,
ellis Island is in New YorkHarbor and it's the place where
millions of immigrants wereprocessed in the early part of
the 20th century and now it's atourist site.
So I took it as a sign and Iwent out there and on the
(05:59):
seawall are etched the names ofevery immigrant who has come
through that island.
And I found my grandfather'sname, who came there in 1906
without a nickel in his pocketfrom Ukraine, escaping the
pogroms.
And I spoke to my ancestor.
I spoke to my grandfather indesperation and I said Grandpa,
what should I do with my life?
And I heard his voice in myhead and he said go back to
(06:23):
school, because, as you may notefrom the beginning of my story,
I never went to college.
I went right into the recordingstudio when I was 17 years old.
So I didn't have one collegecredit at 37.
And I said I can't go back toschool, I don't have the time, I
don't have the money.
And he said why do you think?
(06:44):
I came here?
I knew I would never make it.
I came here for you, for thepromise of my grandchildren.
So don't tell me you don't havethe time or the money.
Work it out.
I couldn't argue with that.
That was October and I was backin school by January and I
decided that what I would studywas how did I get so, so lost
(07:04):
and how could I find myselfagain?
And maybe, if I could figurethose things out for myself,
maybe I could help other peopledo the same thing.
And that has motivated me forall these many years.
That's been my mission in lifeand that's what I'm passionate
about and that's what brings mehere with you today.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Oh, what a fascinating story and to be able
to kind of change from being inthat rock industry, but
exciting.
But, like you said, I rememberreading in your book on your
first day they gave you drugs,didn't they?
On your first, your very firstday.
So it had its wonderful parts.
On your first, your very firstday.
(07:47):
So it had its wonderful parts,but obviously challenging bits
as well.
And if I'm a listener and I'mthinking, why is it so hard, why
am I so stuck?
And my life feels hard and it'seasy for other people, what
would you suggest they can dotoday?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah.
So, first of all, I was workingwith somebody this morning and
I came up with the line you'recaught in the headlights of life
, right, and when we are in fear, we can either run or fight or
freeze, and a lot of peoplefreeze out of fear.
(08:23):
So what I've noticed is thatpeople who are stuck in their
life tend to have sixcharacteristics, and those are.
The first one is shame.
Where shame is the feeling thatgoes along with the belief that
I don't measure up as a person.
It could take the form of I'mugly, I'm fat, I'm stupid, I'm
unlovable, but the underlyingfeeling is the same and people
(08:44):
believe in the way they talk tothemselves negatively.
They believe that they need tobeat themselves up to get
themselves to do things, buttons of science and research
shows us that that is not thecase, that you need to cultivate
self-compassion in order to getout of your stuck place in life
.
The second characteristic ofpeople who are stuck is, as I
(09:09):
was just saying, they're afraid.
They avoid, they procrastinate,the body says don't do it, and
then they don't do it, notrealizing they're afraid of the
wrong thing.
The way to get out of thatstuckness is to cultivate
courage.
You have to do something scaryevery day, even a little thing,
and again, tons of evidence thatthat is the means for getting
(09:33):
unstuck out of fear.
The third characteristic ofstuck people is they have bad
habits.
So the man that I was talkingto this morning he drinks hard
every weekend and then Monday'sa rough day and then he'll
recover for a couple of days andthen he'll go back to drinking
again.
Why does he do that?
Because he's medicating hisfeelings, he's medicating his
(09:56):
pain, he's avoiding, out of fear, doing what he needs to do to
make his life better.
So I don't know if you've heardof Dave Goggins, but he's a
kind of a world famous figurefor having changed his life.
He weighed 300 pounds, hedidn't know how to read or write
and he decided to change hislife, and the method was, he
(10:17):
said I'm going to do what Idon't want to do every day until
I become the person that Irespect.
So the third way to get out ofstuckness is to do what you
don't want to do.
Right, you don't feel likegoing to the gym?
Go to the gym.
The fourth characteristic ofstuck people is they tend to be
negative.
They don't believe anything'sgoing to work out for them.
(10:38):
They think the world is againstthem.
There's so much in life rightnow where it's so easy to be
negative, especially if you liveon this side of the pond but if
you get stuck in thatnegativity then you're not going
to do anything because you'regoing to say what's the point?
Nothing's ever going to workout for me.
It's natural to be negative.
It's evolutionarily in ourgenes to be that way.
(11:03):
The anxious people survived,but it doesn't help us in the
world that we live in today.
So we need to cultivate,through visualization,
positivity.
We have to see that things aregoing to work out for us.
We have to believe that thingsare going to work out for us and
we need to cultivate that on aregular basis.
The fifth characteristic ofstuck people is people are
(11:24):
afraid to learn.
Somehow we learn the wrongthings in school, that they're
stupid or that learning isboring.
But how are you going to growskills, how are you going to
become empowered with knowledge,unless you're willing to learn
every day?
And the sixth and finalcharacteristic of stuck people
is that they tend to beself-hating.
They don't take care of thisbeautiful temple that we have,
(11:46):
of our body.
And so if you eat the rightfood, if you get sleep, if you
exercise, you're going to havemore energy, you're going to be
more motivated, you're going tofeel better about yourself,
you're going to heal your shame.
So you put all those six thingstogether.
Then you are going to startfeeling good about yourself,
you're going to get things done,you're going to change your bad
(12:07):
habits into good ones, you'regoing to start seeing things in
a positive way, you're going tolearn things and become good at
things and you're going to loveyourself.
And then you're going to feelgreat about yourself.
So this is work.
This is daily self-cultivation.
It sounds like a lot, but ifyou do a little bit every day,
five minutes a day, 10 minutes aday of cultivating yourself,
(12:30):
you're going to get unstuck.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
That's great advice and as I was listening to you,
dr Glenn, I was thinking aboutthe times when I kind of allowed
myself to feel it's a bit of anindulgence Sometimes, when's
feeling sorry for oneself.
I guess that's going to happen,but it's how we kind of get out
of that and and and changing um, because my bad habit is
sometimes I like to have darkchocolate because that makes me
(12:54):
feel like comforted and stuff,but then it's not best to have
it.
Ah, yes, exactly, we both just anibble, just a little nibble
nibble, yeah and um, our like, Ikind of can go into that thing
of feeling sorry for myself, butit is the moments when we pull
ourselves out of that and, likeyou were saying, if we keep
(13:15):
doing the same things the sameway, nothing's kind of gonna
change.
I guess that's the way yourcourse can help people, because
you've got, you've done, thisamazing course, which was
inspired by the artists that youmet and also your own life's
journey.
Could you explain a bit aboutthe course and how our listeners
can connect with that?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
absolutely I.
Along my journey of trying tofigure out how to get myself
unstuck and how to help otherpeople get unstuck, how to find
themselves, I discovered aChinese sage named Mencius, who
lived 2,500 years ago.
And of all the wise things thatMencius said, my favorite was
(14:00):
pity the man who has lost hispath and does not follow it, and
has lost his heart and does notgo out and recover it.
When people's dogs and chicksare lost, they go out and look
for them, but when their heartsor original nature are lost,
they do not go out and look forthem.
The principle ofself-cultivation consists in
nothing but trying to find thelost heart, trying to find the
(14:30):
lost heart.
And when I heard that, I knewthat I had found the pathway to
figuring out the answer to thisquestion.
It asked more questions than itanswered, which were what is
the heart?
What does it look like to havea lost heart?
How do we lose the heart?
And, most importantly, how dowe find the heart again?
And that sent me again on thisroad of the many decades to
answer those questions.
And I would say that, asMencius says, as the eye knows
(14:56):
the beautiful and the mouthknows the delicious, the heart
knows the good.
If we learn how to listen toand contact our heart, it will
direct us in the right directionin our life.
But unfortunately, so many of ushave lost contact with this
essential part of ourselves.
So I wanted to make it as easyand as simple as possible for
(15:18):
people to be able to reconnectwith their heart, to be able to
learn how to listen to theirheart and to be able to work.
Those six attributes of theheart that I just named, which
are self-compassion, courage,strength, imagination, wisdom
and love, learn more in severalhours than you would in 10 years
(15:43):
of therapy and 60 exercisesthat people can actually do to
self-cultivate, so they don'thave to figure out what to do in
order to cultivate thoseattributes of the heart.
And finally, there's acommunity aspect, because we
know from ample research that wecan't do this alone, that we
(16:04):
need to connect with otherpeople and to get the support of
other people.
So you get all of that in thiscourse.
I recognize that therapy, whichI love and I do every day, and
people obviously get a benefitfrom, but most of the time it's
not enough.
Talking to me for 45 minutes isnot enough.
You need to do this work on adaily basis, and so I wanted to
(16:24):
provide a platform where peoplecould easily do this work so
that they could become theirbest self, so they could realize
their optimal potential andwhat a great gift to give to the
world.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
And sometimes it can be hard for people to get to
therapy as well with yeah andyeah, it's part of the
challenges and it were kind of abit.
People can feel time starved.
Starved these days and I thinkthe only way you can cultivate
change is if one works ononeself daily in a way that's
going to kind of like help.
(16:58):
So I understand that you alsohelp.
Creativity within this fits inwith all of this.
I'm guessing the creativity,because because of all these
rock gods I've got that youyou've worked with and yourself
becoming this amazing producerand and sound engineer.
How does the creativity partfit into all of this?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
yeah.
So what?
I, if somebody?
When people ask, what did thoseartists have?
That was different.
Yes, they were extraordinarilytalented.
But more than seeing flights ofimaginative creativity, what I
saw was dogged perseverance.
When I couldn't take anotherminute, they said let's do it
(17:47):
again, let's do it again, let'sdo it again.
They were in pursuit ofsomething and they were
relentless in that pursuit.
So if I was working with SteelyDan and we were working on a
basic track, maybe we'd work onthat one track for 12 hours.
But I tell you something, whenit was done, it was
extraordinary.
It was incredible, and Iwouldn't even know what they
were looking for.
I said what are you?
It's great, it's enough, let'sstop.
(18:10):
And they heard something thatthey were going after and maybe
the average listener wouldn'tknow what those things are.
But you feel it and that's whyhere it is, 50 years later, and
people are still listening tothat music that I worked on 50
years ago.
Who knew?
I never thought that that wasgoing to be the case.
I would have taken morephotographs if I would have
(18:33):
realized that, to maintain thehistory.
But we didn't know that wasgoing to happen.
So there's a book called the Warof Art by Steven Pressfield,
book called the War of Art bySteven Pressfield, and in it he
says that anytime you're tryingto do anything creative whether
it's music, film or science oranything you are going to have
resistance.
(18:53):
There's going to be a forcewithin you that is going to try
to stop you.
That force can take many forms.
It can be what's the point ofdoing this?
You stink.
It'll never be any good,whatever the content is.
It's a force within you, andpart of the reason that I
(19:15):
advocate cultivating theseattributes of the heart is
because it's hard to pushthrough that resistance, and
these are all tools to getyourself to do something.
So I have.
I have a client that I work withnow who's a funny guy.
He's always wanted to be incomedy and but he's always
(19:35):
stopped himself and and throughour work together, he's now
putting out TikToks, and onethat he put out a couple of
weeks ago went viral and now hasmillions of views because he
pushed through that resistance,he allowed himself to do it.
Who cares if it's good, bad orotherwise, you never know what's
(19:58):
going to, what's going toconnect with people, right, and
it's funny and he's brought joyto the world.
People are laughing.
You know we need laughter somuch in the world that we live
in today.
It took a lot for him, a lot ofself-cultivation, to have the
courage to just put himself outinto the world.
(20:20):
And and when somebody says, well, how do you make something
great, I say, well, you.
You always ask yourself thequestion how can I do it better?
How can it be better?
How can it be better?
How can it be better?
Not at the beginning of theprocess.
At the beginning, you justthrow whatever, you just play
(20:45):
question and you keep gettingbetter over over time and and
and, to recognize that whatyou're offering we get so caught
up in.
How is somebody going to reactto it?
As compared to?
This is my gift that I'moffering to the world oh, that's
a beautiful way to to put it.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
and the humor aspect, I think, is a missing component
in many people's lives, and youknow, people have got through
crisis by finding the humour andthe joy, and I feel like you've
shaken me with what you'resaying in a good way, like
actually, these things, thesehang-ups that we have to stop us
(21:19):
putting ourselves out there,it's kind of barriers that we've
allowed around ourselves, andwe can get through that by just
being a bit more brave, andcourage is one of the aspects of
coming back to the heart.
I'm interested to find out.
So in the music industry you're37, which is still young today,
but it is actually you realizethis isn't the path you want to
(21:42):
go down anymore.
How did you come out of thatlife crisis and kind of become
the the psychotherapist you'vebeen for the last 25 years?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
I'd always been interested in two things music
and psychology.
I realized after some pointthey both involved listening.
To be a great therapist, youreally have to be able to listen
with authority or to reallypenetrate what somebody is going
for.
With music, it's the same thingand with music, it's the same
(22:17):
thing.
What I loved about being in themusic world at that time which
seems like ancient history nowwas the people I got to sit in a
room with.
Sometimes there'd be 40musicians in the room producers,
arrangers, engineers,assistants and all of the
(22:38):
musicians and that was reallythe joy for me.
These are some great, greatpeople the studio musicians that
I worked with.
In my book, which is calledNever Say no to a Rockstar, it's
dedicated to the people behindthe scenes.
Everybody wants to hear aboutthe great artists and I write
(22:59):
about them, but very often thegreat artists were not great
people.
They were in a lot of pain andthey could be very difficult.
But the people behind thescenes, the studio musicians and
the arrangers these wereincredible folks and I loved
being with them.
But the business changed and Iended up sitting in a room with
(23:21):
one person with a laptop,because everything is so much is
done just virtually now, andthat wasn't fun for me anymore,
and so I recognized that my lovewas really for the people, and
so I work with a lot of artistsnow and I understand their pain.
(23:41):
It's not easy being an artisteverything that we've just
talked about and it's hard rightnow in so many of the arts, to
make a living, to get theattention that they deserve
actually.
And even the ones who aresuccessful suffer a lot of
rejection and a lot ofmisunderstanding and a lot of
pain, and I love them.
I love the personality type.
(24:03):
Many artists are, shall we say,eccentric, and I relate to
those folks.
I am an artist myself myself,so I'm really doing much more of
what I meant to do working withpeople in this way and helping
(24:23):
them to get to the point wherethey can create or do their best
creation than to be in thestudio pressing some buttons on
a computer oh, and what a giftto the world that we can help
people, because I think so manypeople are stuck, either artists
or not, and it's not somethingthat we learn at school, is it?
Speaker 1 (24:42):
How to, kind of like, navigate life.
We might learn how to do mathsor English, but navigating
through life, and it can be atricky thing.
So I think your work's going tobe of great benefit.
What is the biggest?
I know there's something you'vedrawn which is the Heartfinders
Project, and what is thebiggest another thing that
you've drawn, which is the heartfinders project, and what?
What is the biggest dream thatyou have relating to that?
Speaker 2 (25:02):
if you would share about what the heart finders
project is, that would be greatyeah, what I see is that so many
people, for so many reasonsthat we could go into, in the
culture that we live in, in thevery materialistic culture that
we live in, that so many peopleare suffering, they are stuck,
(25:22):
they are not realizing theirinherent potential.
Aristotle has this word,entelechy, which is that which
we are meant to be.
Within the acorn lies themighty oak tree.
We don't end up the way westart out, and if the acorn gets
the proper sunlight, soil andwater, it becomes what it's
(25:43):
meant to be, which is the oaktree.
We, too, have an entelechy,something that we're meant to be
, the full expression of ourpotentials.
And everywhere I look, I seepeople who are not realizing
that potential.
And right now, in order to makethe world a better place, to get
out of this difficult time thatwe're living in, each one of us
(26:05):
needs to do the work ofbecoming our best self, because
when we become our best self,then we can do what we can do to
make the world a better place.
So I had to figure out what itwas that I could do, what my
contribution would be to makethe world a better place, and
(26:25):
that's to help other peoplerealize their intellikey to
realize their potential so thatthey can do make their
contribution to it, to a betterworld.
So I want to spread thatmessage to as many people as I
possibly can I love that wechange ourselves, we kind of
change, change the world andwhat.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
What a wonderful thing to do if I'm a listener
and I'm thinking, oh, this isreally feeling right to me.
How can they access the courseand stuff?
So how could they find yourcourse?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yes, yes.
So if you go togoheartfindersco, you can set up
a free consultation with me.
I've got a video there whereyou can learn more about the
course.
So it's goheartfindersH-E-A-R-T-F-I-N-D-E-R-S, which
is one word, co, and that is thebest way to access the course.
(27:23):
Also, if you join the course,there's a seven day free trial
period if you want to try it out, and I'm trying to make it
accessible to as many people aspossible, and I'm I'd be more
than happy to have aconversation with anybody who's
interested oh, fantastic, andI'll put links in the show notes
as well.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I think it's really really important work.
I would like to ask I like it'sone of my favorite questions is
is there anything in the worldthat you wish that?
Is there something that youwish everybody knew in the world
?
And so what is it?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
that's a great.
That's a great question.
What do I want everybody toknow?
Yeah, I want everybody to knowthat they are lovable.
I want everybody to know thatthey are worthy.
I want everybody to know thatthey have unrealized potential,
that they can cultivate, thatnobody is stuck or nobody's
(28:22):
broken and that if we work onourselves every day, we all have
infinite potential for growth.
And so, again, in the face ofso many people feeling despair,
that there is hope, and toencourage everybody to look in
(28:44):
the mirror and see the beautyinstead of the ugliness or
whatever it is that theycriticize themselves for, to be
compassionate to themselves, tobe kind and gentle and
encouraging with themselvesinstead of critical.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Kindness goes a long way and it's a much nicer lens
to view oneself because we canbe quite self-critical and see
all the things that are wrong.
So what is the one course ofaction that any listener could
do today to make their lifebetter?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
of action that any listener could do today to make
their life better.
So here's what I recommend is avery simple exercise that you
could do every day.
I do it every day.
It takes about two minutes.
I wake up in the morning and thefirst thing I do an affirmation
, which is you're amazingbecause and the evidence
indicates that if you put it inthat second word, second tense,
where you're talking to yourself, that that's more effective.
(29:40):
So you're amazing because andfill in the blank, think of
something that you did yesterday.
It doesn't have to be the mostamazing thing in the world, it's
anything right.
You're amazing because you washthe dishes right, whatever it
is.
The second one is I'mappreciative for.
So I appreciate, as Patti Smithsaid, I appreciate that I have
(30:02):
a toothbrush.
Again, it doesn't matter what itis.
Find something that you'reappreciative for.
I'm appreciative for my health,I'm appreciative for this
conversation with you.
That's what I'm going to saytomorrow.
I'm going to say I'm amazingbecause I did this and I
appreciate the fact that I hadthe opportunity to do it and to
meet you.
And the third one is toenvision.
So, whatever you want to bringinto your life, into the world,
(30:24):
whether it's short-term,medium-term, long-term,
something you want tomorrow,something you want next month,
something you want in threeyears.
To start seeing it in yourmind's eye, to cultivate that
vision, because, again, we knowthat mental rehearsal makes it
more likely that that thing isgoing to happen.
So I wake up.
(30:44):
You're amazing because Iappreciate, fill in the blank,
here's my vision, takes twominutes, starts my day, and
that's a simple thing thateverybody can do to activate the
neurons in your brain that aregoing to get you a little bit
unstuck.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
That's a great way to start the day, instead of
waking up and looking at thenews and then kind of things
that you can't change right.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Exactly exactly.
Or hitting the snooze buttonand pulling the covers over your
head, yeah, or hitting thesnooze button and pulling the
covers over your head.
Yeah, you know.
Open up the shades, let thesunlight in, start the day, and
you're going to feel better.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
That's a better way to start the day.
I like that a lot.
I'm intrigued.
Out of all the it's probably abit of a difficult question to
answer, but out of all theserock stars that you worked with,
what was the most inspiringexperience?
I bet there's probably many,but maybe there might be one
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
So I don't know the the the ages of your listeners,
so I don't know if they'll beable to understand or relate to
what I'm about to say, but I'lltry to put it in a way that it
makes sense.
So I had the extraordinaryexperience of working with Mick
Jagger from the Rolling Stones.
He's still performing in his80s, so I hope some people still
(32:06):
know who the Stones are andthey're still doing amazing work
.
And he I mean he talk aboutsomebody who's realized his
potential that this guy is inhis 80s and he's still rocking
for two and a half hours on thestage.
It's just a great, great rolemodel.
And so we were alone in thestudio together one Saturday
(32:27):
morning we were mixing arecording of a live performance
and nobody else was in the roomat that time.
I was still very I think I was19 years old at the time and we
were listening to a track and hesaid you know, I don't like my
lead vocal.
Sometimes, secretly, eventhough it's called a live
(32:49):
recording, people would replaceparts if they didn't like it.
So he said, well, set up amicrophone out for me in the
studio.
And he went out into the room,which was right across the glass
from me, maybe six feet awayfrom me, and he sang the song
Honky Tonk Women, which was oneof their biggest hits in the
late 60s.
Looking at me singing that songright to me, I got a solo
performance from Mick Jaggersinging one of his biggest hits
(33:10):
and that was a very special.
That was a very special momentand at that time I had a lot of
red hair and he said that one'sfor you, ginger, and uh, I love
(33:31):
it.
Wow, oh, that's a goodexperience.
That was absolutely great.
That was a memory and and youknow this is if I could just wax
poetic on this subject for onemore minute this is one of the
things that I encourage youngpeople to do is have adventures,
take risks.
If I hadn't have overcome myfear and walked into that studio
and suffered what I sufferedand put up with all the crap
(33:52):
that I put up with, I wouldn'thave that memory.
Today, 50 years later, I'mtelling you this story and I'm
remembering this, if you'llscrew up your life the way that
I did, but it left me withmemories that are extraordinary
(34:24):
and, in fact, that I was able towrite a book about.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah, and what a book .
Never Say no to a Rockstar.
And it's interesting becauseI've got some family members
that are only in their teens butthey love the music from that
era.
There's something timelessabout the music from that time
and I think it kind of makespeople want to be more creative,
or it does myself.
And your book Never Say no to aRockstar.
(34:50):
That's available worldwide,isn't it?
On Amazon and all the otherdifferent platforms and on
Audible, so I was starting toread it on Kindle, but I'm
actually going to download theAudible and listen to it in the
car.
But we've reached the point inthe interview where I'd like you
to share whatever you wouldlike, dr Glenn, because I think
sometimes I'm directing theinterview, but is there anything
(35:10):
you would like to share withthe listeners that we haven't
covered?
Speaker 2 (35:14):
What I was thinking a couple of minutes ago is, when
you were talking, we weretalking about creativity and
resistance and having thecourage to express yourself that
I just wanted to say how much Iappreciate you doing this, that
you're taking the risk ofhaving this podcast, bringing
(35:36):
people on, having these kinds ofconversations, sharing this
with the world.
And one thing that I learned Ihad an experience some years ago
where I worked with a woman whohad terminal cancer and she
died and for a minute I thoughtwhat was the point of our
therapy.
I wasn't able to save her and Iwent to a memorial for her.
(36:00):
I'm feeling a little emotionaltalking about this and different
people spoke about this personand one woman was speaking about
her and she said you know,barbara always said to me and
then she said words that I hadsaid to Barbara and so and she
(36:20):
said and you know, wheneverBarbara would say that it helped
me so much.
And it made me realize that wenever know.
We never know who we're helpingand how we're helping them.
We don't know you and I don'tknow who's going to be listening
to this and maybe get somethingout of it.
Maybe they'll never reach outto me.
Maybe they'll never tell you,but maybe it'll change them in a
(36:40):
positive way or inspire them ormake them feel better, and
we'll never know that.
So I appreciate you doing thiswith that faith, with that
knowing that if you put yourselfout there it's going to have a
positive effect in the world,that then that person might pass
it down to somebody else, whomight pass it down to somebody
(37:01):
else, and that's why we do this.
So I just want to thank you forhaving me on here and for doing
the work that you do and takingthe risks that you take to be
creative.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you, Dr Glenn.
I feel emotional talking to youas well.
It resonated.
That's why I started doing this.
It wasn't something that wasnatural to me and it wanted to
help people.
But listening to you today, Ifeel that you've changed my life
and what the conversationyou've had you reminded me of,
like the places I'm stuck andhow I can move forward.
(37:34):
So I thank you from the bottomof my heart and I agree if this
podcast helps listeners inwhatever way, then that's the
way it's meant to be.
So thank you for taking thetime to speak to me today.
Dear listeners, as always,there's a meditation inspired by
today's show, but, Dr GlennBerger, I'll put a link to Dr
(37:56):
Glenn's website in the notes andalso to his amazing book, which
I'm really enjoying.
Never say no to a rock star.
But thank you once again, DrGlenn.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Thank you so much for having me.
This has been so much fun.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
It's been so much fun for me as well.
So thank you.
Top tips for the meditation iseither sit nice and cross-legged
on the floor with a nicestraight back always nice to sit
on a block or a cushion.
Although that's not availablefor you, you sit in a chair with
the back nice and straight.
The important thing is you'renot slouching, and if you're
doing something that requiresyou concentration, all you need
(38:32):
to do is just pause this and youcan reconvene the meditation at
a time that is good for you.
If you're doing the meditationat a time that is good for you,
if you're doing the meditation,let's begin.
Here's today's meditation,inspired by today's deeply
inspiring show.
Some days we may approach thingsand find things flow, and other
(38:52):
times they don't.
So here's a quick two minutemeditation which is aimed to
help you feel a bit less stuckand a little bit more in the
flow, closing the eyes andbreathing calmly and deeply
through the nostrils and feel asif the nostrils flare a bit.
That allows for a bit more air.
(39:13):
And as you exhale, try and makethe inhalation and exhalation
the same length, but try to makeit so it's not forced.
It feels like a flow and as youbreathe, when you're closing
your eyes, just keep coming backto the breath, keep coming back
(39:36):
to the breath, keep coming backto the breath.
So if your mind wanders here oryour mind wanders there, just
entice it back to the breath andyou just allow that flow.
So, in and out it flows, allaround, round and round, the
(39:57):
breath does flow and you feel asif you have arrived in the most
creative room that you canimagine in your imagination, in
(40:24):
your imagination, and it's asimple meditation.
As you breathe, a beautifulboard is in front of you and on
that board is a chalk.
And as you breathe and you'recalm, and even if the mind
flitters off somewhere, you cancome back to that breath and
just be slow.
(40:44):
So there's nothing big that youneed to do in the meditation
today, but I invite you, from ofcalm, to go and pick up the
piece of chalk and just write onit one thing that you love
(41:06):
about yourself, the first thingthat comes into your head.
Take a few more breaths as youbreathe in and out through the
nostrils, that sense of calmness, that sense of being and that
(41:29):
sense of yourself, and pick upthe chalk again and write one
thing that you're proud of Onething that you're proud of, and
(41:58):
then return back to the breath,nice and calmly, nice and deeply
.
Finally, when you feel stuck,write one word or phrase that in
your imagination that will helpyou.
It could be get more fresh air,go out in nature.
It could be anything butsomething that is good for you,
(42:19):
that is going to help you onthis journey, and then slowly
come back into the moment, comeback into the room and you may
want to jot down those detailson a piece of paper to help you
navigate through the day.
(42:40):
So thank you for listening.
There's always a meditation onthe end of the episode, so if
you want a longer or shortermeditation, then by all means
explore those meditations.
So thank you for listening.
Hello everybody, I'm your host, the Gentle Yoga
Warrior, and this is AwakenedConscious Conversations podcast,
and joining us soon all the wayfrom the USA will be the one
and only Dr Glenn Berger.
And Dr Glenn Berger has a veryinteresting life and when he was
younger he was in the musicindustry as an engineer and
(00:22):
producer.
On his first day in the musicindustry he met the legend James
Brown.
He's worked with Rock, rowdy,dylan, sinatra, jagger, to name
but a few, and what theseartists taught him?
He realized that it held a keyto success in life and he
brought it into his program forself-realization.
(00:43):
He pivoted careers and became apsychotherapist coach for over
25 years.
He was very young when he gotinto the music industry and I've
been reading his book Never Sayno to a Rockstar and I think it
really captures that, thatexcitement, but also all the
elements of the, the musicindustry, and I've just started
(01:04):
it, but from what I've read sofar, I find it deeply moving and
I'm really looking forward tohearing more about it and we're
going to help you do this andhow to get everything you want
in your life, in a sense, how tonavigate through that kind of
sticky stuckness that we can getinto, which can feels a bit
more gluey and hardened glue aswe get older, right, and so my
(01:28):
wish for you today, dearlisteners, is to find a way to
kind of navigate through allthis, and that would be
fantastic for all of us.
So I'm very much lookingforward to speaking to Dr Glenn
Berger, and he's going to shareall kinds of different things of
how he's going to be able tohelp us, and I would like him to
(01:49):
share with us today how we'regoing to navigate through that
Before it comes on air.
You know, sometimes we getstuck in life and we think life
each day can be a bit mundane.
I've always found my way ofgetting stuckness is to look
into nature, like earlier.
If I hadn't been sittingquietly in like one spot, I
(02:10):
would never have spotted it.
A little leaf cutter bee camepast me and had a.
I didn't get a photographbecause I was sitting meditating
, but it had a little leaf in itand then it was burying into my
strawberry pox and drawnstrawberries and it was making
its little nest.
And I looked online.
They don't live for very long.
I think it's about six weeks,and if it's a female one, she'd
(02:33):
be laying a nest, or it could bemale, but I've got a feeling
that it's a female one and ifit's warm it doesn't take very
long for the, the little babybees, to be ready and out in the
world.
And the reason I was sharingthis was that that is a way to
kind of get out of the mundaneand stuckness that we may have
in in life in so many ways, andthat's why I really want to
(02:55):
share that with you today.
And it sounds like, oh, alittle thing, but it's quite a
big thing because this is alittle creature that's been
really resourceful and hasmanaged to quite dig a hole.
And I'm going to be verycareful when I walk around that
stroke because of the bee, butit's.
I find that really fascinatingand uplifting.
There are ways that I find Ifeel less stuck, so maybe
(03:20):
everything's not working exactlyhow I want it to be, but then I
can find little miracles.
So things like that nature isalways a miracle to me.
So I'm very intrigued to findout from you, dear listener,
what a miracle is for you,without further ado, dr Glenn
Berger.
Welcome to the show, glenn.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Oh, it's such an honor.
And where are you joining ustoday?
Oh, I'm in uh pleasantville,new york oh wow, well, welcome,
welcome, thank you so we thoughtwhat better person to speak to
us today than yourself on how toget everything you want in life
and get out of that stuckfeeling first?
First of all, would you mindsharing a bit about your journey
(04:05):
so far and what inspired you?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Absolutely so.
When I was 17 years old, I wasblessed to get an internship
working at one of the greatestrecording studios in the world,
a place called A&R Studios, andI ended up being mentored by one
of the greatest producers ofthat time, a man named Phil
Ramone Lifetime AchievementGrammy Award winning guy, and I
ended up working with peoplelike Bob Dylan and Frank Sinatra
(04:32):
and Mick Jagger and Steely Danand so many great artists from
that time, and it was reallyquite an extraordinary
experience for a young man likeme, and I learned so much about
how to make great art and howthose great artists did their
work to achieve so much.
At the same time, it was, asthey say, a place of drug, sex
(04:57):
and rock and roll, and it was apretty tough place to work as
well.
The demands were very extremeand the way that I was treated
was not you couldn't, youwouldn't be allowed to treat
somebody the way today, the wayI was treated back then and
eventually, after being in thebusiness for many years, I
pretty much destroyed my life.
(05:17):
I destroyed a marriage withinfidelity, I was taking drugs
every day and I was completelylost.
And it was my 37th birthday andI was out with some friends and
I was mo drugs every day and Iwas completely lost.
And it was my 37th birthday andI was out with some friends and
I was moaning and groaning whatshould I do with my life?
I'm completely lost.
And there was a woman there whohad a migraine headache.
She was passed out on the tableand she lifted her head and she
(05:39):
said go to Ellis Island.
Now for those of you, yourlisteners, who may not know,
ellis Island is in New YorkHarbor and it's the place where
millions of immigrants wereprocessed in the early part of
the 20th century and now it's atourist site.
So I took it as a sign and Iwent out there and on the
(05:59):
seawall are etched the names ofevery immigrant who has come
through that island.
And I found my grandfather'sname, who came there in 1906
without a nickel in his pocketfrom Ukraine, escaping the
pogroms.
And I spoke to my ancestor.
I spoke to my grandfather indesperation and I said Grandpa,
what should I do with my life?
And I heard his voice in myhead and he said go back to
(06:23):
school, because, as you may notefrom the beginning of my story,
I never went to college.
I went right into the recordingstudio when I was 17 years old.
So I didn't have one collegecredit at 37.
And I said I can't go back toschool, I don't have the time, I
don't have the money.
And he said why do you think?
(06:44):
I came here?
I knew I would never make it.
I came here for you, for thepromise of my grandchildren.
So don't tell me you don't havethe time or the money.
Work it out.
I couldn't argue with that.
That was October and I was backin school by January and I
decided that what I would studywas how did I get so, so lost
(07:04):
and how could I find myselfagain?
And maybe, if I could figurethose things out for myself,
maybe I could help other peopledo the same thing.
And that has motivated me forall these many years.
That's been my mission in lifeand that's what I'm passionate
about and that's what brings mehere with you today.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Oh, what a fascinating story and to be able
to kind of change from being inthat rock industry, but
exciting.
But, like you said, I rememberreading in your book on your
first day they gave you drugs,didn't they?
On your first, your very firstday.
So it had its wonderful parts.
On your first, your very firstday.
(07:47):
So it had its wonderful parts,but obviously challenging bits
as well.
And if I'm a listener and I'mthinking, why is it so hard, why
am I so stuck?
And my life feels hard and it'seasy for other people, what
would you suggest they can dotoday?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah.
So, first of all, I was workingwith somebody this morning and
I came up with the line you'recaught in the headlights of life
, right, and when we are in fear, we can either run or fight or
freeze, and a lot of peoplefreeze out of fear.
(08:23):
So what I've noticed is thatpeople who are stuck in their
life tend to have sixcharacteristics, and those are.
The first one is shame.
Where shame is the feeling thatgoes along with the belief that
I don't measure up as a person.
It could take the form of I'mugly, I'm fat, I'm stupid, I'm
unlovable, but the underlyingfeeling is the same and people
(08:44):
believe in the way they talk tothemselves negatively.
They believe that they need tobeat themselves up to get
themselves to do things, buttons of science and research
shows us that that is not thecase, that you need to cultivate
self-compassion in order to getout of your stuck place in life
.
The second characteristic ofpeople who are stuck is, as I
(09:09):
was just saying, they're afraid.
They avoid, they procrastinate,the body says don't do it, and
then they don't do it, notrealizing they're afraid of the
wrong thing.
The way to get out of thatstuckness is to cultivate
courage.
You have to do something scaryevery day, even a little thing,
and again, tons of evidence thatthat is the means for getting
(09:33):
unstuck out of fear.
The third characteristic ofstuck people is they have bad
habits.
So the man that I was talkingto this morning he drinks hard
every weekend and then Monday'sa rough day and then he'll
recover for a couple of days andthen he'll go back to drinking
again.
Why does he do that?
Because he's medicating hisfeelings, he's medicating his
(09:56):
pain, he's avoiding, out of fear, doing what he needs to do to
make his life better.
So I don't know if you've heardof Dave Goggins, but he's a
kind of a world famous figurefor having changed his life.
He weighed 300 pounds, hedidn't know how to read or write
and he decided to change hislife, and the method was, he
(10:17):
said I'm going to do what Idon't want to do every day until
I become the person that Irespect.
So the third way to get out ofstuckness is to do what you
don't want to do.
Right, you don't feel likegoing to the gym?
Go to the gym.
The fourth characteristic ofstuck people is they tend to be
negative.
They don't believe anything'sgoing to work out for them.
(10:38):
They think the world is againstthem.
There's so much in life rightnow where it's so easy to be
negative, especially if you liveon this side of the pond but if
you get stuck in thatnegativity then you're not going
to do anything because you'regoing to say what's the point?
Nothing's ever going to workout for me.
It's natural to be negative.
It's evolutionarily in ourgenes to be that way.
(11:03):
The anxious people survived,but it doesn't help us in the
world that we live in today.
So we need to cultivate,through visualization,
positivity.
We have to see that things aregoing to work out for us.
We have to believe that thingsare going to work out for us and
we need to cultivate that on aregular basis.
The fifth characteristic ofstuck people is people are
(11:24):
afraid to learn.
Somehow we learn the wrongthings in school, that they're
stupid or that learning isboring.
But how are you going to growskills, how are you going to
become empowered with knowledge,unless you're willing to learn
every day?
And the sixth and finalcharacteristic of stuck people
is that they tend to beself-hating.
They don't take care of thisbeautiful temple that we have,
(11:46):
of our body.
And so if you eat the rightfood, if you get sleep, if you
exercise, you're going to havemore energy, you're going to be
more motivated, you're going tofeel better about yourself,
you're going to heal your shame.
So you put all those six thingstogether.
Then you are going to startfeeling good about yourself,
you're going to get things done,you're going to change your bad
(12:07):
habits into good ones, you'regoing to start seeing things in
a positive way, you're going tolearn things and become good at
things and you're going to loveyourself.
And then you're going to feelgreat about yourself.
So this is work.
This is daily self-cultivation.
It sounds like a lot, but ifyou do a little bit every day,
five minutes a day, 10 minutes aday of cultivating yourself,
(12:30):
you're going to get unstuck.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
That's great advice and as I was listening to you,
dr Glenn, I was thinking aboutthe times when I kind of allowed
myself to feel it's a bit of anindulgence Sometimes, when's
feeling sorry for oneself.
I guess that's going to happen,but it's how we kind of get out
of that and and and changing um, because my bad habit is
sometimes I like to have darkchocolate because that makes me
(12:54):
feel like comforted and stuff,but then it's not best to have
it.
Ah, yes, exactly, we both just anibble, just a little nibble
nibble, yeah and um, our like, Ikind of can go into that thing
of feeling sorry for myself, butit is the moments when we pull
ourselves out of that and, likeyou were saying, if we keep
(13:15):
doing the same things the sameway, nothing's kind of gonna
change.
I guess that's the way yourcourse can help people, because
you've got, you've done, thisamazing course, which was
inspired by the artists that youmet and also your own life's
journey.
Could you explain a bit aboutthe course and how our listeners
can connect with that?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
absolutely I.
Along my journey of trying tofigure out how to get myself
unstuck and how to help otherpeople get unstuck, how to find
themselves, I discovered aChinese sage named Mencius, who
lived 2,500 years ago.
And of all the wise things thatMencius said, my favorite was
(14:00):
pity the man who has lost hispath and does not follow it, and
has lost his heart and does notgo out and recover it.
When people's dogs and chicksare lost, they go out and look
for them, but when their heartsor original nature are lost,
they do not go out and look forthem.
The principle ofself-cultivation consists in
nothing but trying to find thelost heart, trying to find the
(14:30):
lost heart.
And when I heard that, I knewthat I had found the pathway to
figuring out the answer to thisquestion.
It asked more questions than itanswered, which were what is
the heart?
What does it look like to havea lost heart?
How do we lose the heart?
And, most importantly, how dowe find the heart again?
And that sent me again on thisroad of the many decades to
answer those questions.
And I would say that, asMencius says, as the eye knows
(14:56):
the beautiful and the mouthknows the delicious, the heart
knows the good.
If we learn how to listen toand contact our heart, it will
direct us in the right directionin our life.
But unfortunately, so many of ushave lost contact with this
essential part of ourselves.
So I wanted to make it as easyand as simple as possible for
(15:18):
people to be able to reconnectwith their heart, to be able to
learn how to listen to theirheart and to be able to work.
Those six attributes of theheart that I just named, which
are self-compassion, courage,strength, imagination, wisdom
and love, learn more in severalhours than you would in 10 years
(15:43):
of therapy and 60 exercisesthat people can actually do to
self-cultivate, so they don'thave to figure out what to do in
order to cultivate thoseattributes of the heart.
And finally, there's acommunity aspect, because we
know from ample research that wecan't do this alone, that we
(16:04):
need to connect with otherpeople and to get the support of
other people.
So you get all of that in thiscourse.
I recognize that therapy, whichI love and I do every day, and
people obviously get a benefitfrom, but most of the time it's
not enough.
Talking to me for 45 minutes isnot enough.
You need to do this work on adaily basis, and so I wanted to
(16:24):
provide a platform where peoplecould easily do this work so
that they could become theirbest self, so they could realize
their optimal potential andwhat a great gift to give to the
world.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
And sometimes it can be hard for people to get to
therapy as well with yeah andyeah, it's part of the
challenges and it were kind of abit.
People can feel time starved.
Starved these days and I thinkthe only way you can cultivate
change is if one works ononeself daily in a way that's
going to kind of like help.
(16:58):
So I understand that you alsohelp.
Creativity within this fits inwith all of this.
I'm guessing the creativity,because because of all these
rock gods I've got that youyou've worked with and yourself
becoming this amazing producerand and sound engineer.
How does the creativity partfit into all of this?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
yeah.
So what?
I, if somebody?
When people ask, what did thoseartists have?
That was different.
Yes, they were extraordinarilytalented.
But more than seeing flights ofimaginative creativity, what I
saw was dogged perseverance.
When I couldn't take anotherminute, they said let's do it
(17:47):
again, let's do it again, let'sdo it again.
They were in pursuit ofsomething and they were
relentless in that pursuit.
So if I was working with SteelyDan and we were working on a
basic track, maybe we'd work onthat one track for 12 hours.
But I tell you something, whenit was done, it was
extraordinary.
It was incredible, and Iwouldn't even know what they
were looking for.
I said what are you?
It's great, it's enough, let'sstop.
(18:10):
And they heard something thatthey were going after and maybe
the average listener wouldn'tknow what those things are.
But you feel it and that's whyhere it is, 50 years later, and
people are still listening tothat music that I worked on 50
years ago.
Who knew?
I never thought that that wasgoing to be the case.
I would have taken morephotographs if I would have
(18:33):
realized that, to maintain thehistory.
But we didn't know that wasgoing to happen.
So there's a book called the Warof Art by Steven Pressfield,
book called the War of Art bySteven Pressfield, and in it he
says that anytime you're tryingto do anything creative whether
it's music, film or science oranything you are going to have
resistance.
(18:53):
There's going to be a forcewithin you that is going to try
to stop you.
That force can take many forms.
It can be what's the point ofdoing this?
You stink.
It'll never be any good,whatever the content is.
It's a force within you, andpart of the reason that I
(19:15):
advocate cultivating theseattributes of the heart is
because it's hard to pushthrough that resistance, and
these are all tools to getyourself to do something.
So I have.
I have a client that I work withnow who's a funny guy.
He's always wanted to be incomedy and but he's always
(19:35):
stopped himself and and throughour work together, he's now
putting out TikToks, and onethat he put out a couple of
weeks ago went viral and now hasmillions of views because he
pushed through that resistance,he allowed himself to do it.
Who cares if it's good, bad orotherwise, you never know what's
(19:58):
going to, what's going toconnect with people, right, and
it's funny and he's brought joyto the world.
People are laughing.
You know we need laughter somuch in the world that we live
in today.
It took a lot for him, a lot ofself-cultivation, to have the
courage to just put himself outinto the world.
(20:20):
And and when somebody says, well, how do you make something
great, I say, well, you.
You always ask yourself thequestion how can I do it better?
How can it be better?
How can it be better?
How can it be better?
Not at the beginning of theprocess.
At the beginning, you justthrow whatever, you just play
(20:45):
question and you keep gettingbetter over over time and and
and, to recognize that whatyou're offering we get so caught
up in.
How is somebody going to reactto it?
As compared to?
This is my gift that I'moffering to the world oh, that's
a beautiful way to to put it.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
and the humor aspect, I think, is a missing component
in many people's lives, and youknow, people have got through
crisis by finding the humour andthe joy, and I feel like you've
shaken me with what you'resaying in a good way, like
actually, these things, thesehang-ups that we have to stop us
(21:19):
putting ourselves out there,it's kind of barriers that we've
allowed around ourselves, andwe can get through that by just
being a bit more brave, andcourage is one of the aspects of
coming back to the heart.
I'm interested to find out.
So in the music industry you're37, which is still young today,
but it is actually you realizethis isn't the path you want to
(21:42):
go down anymore.
How did you come out of thatlife crisis and kind of become
the the psychotherapist you'vebeen for the last 25 years?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
I'd always been interested in two things music
and psychology.
I realized after some pointthey both involved listening.
To be a great therapist, youreally have to be able to listen
with authority or to reallypenetrate what somebody is going
for.
With music, it's the same thingand with music, it's the same
(22:17):
thing.
What I loved about being in themusic world at that time which
seems like ancient history nowwas the people I got to sit in a
room with.
Sometimes there'd be 40musicians in the room producers,
arrangers, engineers,assistants and all of the
(22:38):
musicians and that was reallythe joy for me.
These are some great, greatpeople the studio musicians that
I worked with.
In my book, which is calledNever Say no to a Rockstar, it's
dedicated to the people behindthe scenes.
Everybody wants to hear aboutthe great artists and I write
(22:59):
about them, but very often thegreat artists were not great
people.
They were in a lot of pain andthey could be very difficult.
But the people behind thescenes, the studio musicians and
the arrangers these wereincredible folks and I loved
being with them.
But the business changed and Iended up sitting in a room with
(23:21):
one person with a laptop,because everything is so much is
done just virtually now, andthat wasn't fun for me anymore,
and so I recognized that my lovewas really for the people, and
so I work with a lot of artistsnow and I understand their pain.
(23:41):
It's not easy being an artisteverything that we've just
talked about and it's hard rightnow in so many of the arts, to
make a living, to get theattention that they deserve
actually.
And even the ones who aresuccessful suffer a lot of
rejection and a lot ofmisunderstanding and a lot of
pain, and I love them.
I love the personality type.
(24:03):
Many artists are, shall we say,eccentric, and I relate to
those folks.
I am an artist myself myself,so I'm really doing much more of
what I meant to do working withpeople in this way and helping
(24:23):
them to get to the point wherethey can create or do their best
creation than to be in thestudio pressing some buttons on
a computer oh, and what a giftto the world that we can help
people, because I think so manypeople are stuck, either artists
or not, and it's not somethingthat we learn at school, is it?
Speaker 1 (24:42):
How to, kind of like, navigate life.
We might learn how to do mathsor English, but navigating
through life, and it can be atricky thing.
So I think your work's going tobe of great benefit.
What is the biggest?
I know there's something you'vedrawn which is the Heartfinders
Project, and what is thebiggest another thing that
you've drawn, which is the heartfinders project, and what?
What is the biggest dream thatyou have relating to that?
Speaker 2 (25:02):
if you would share about what the heart finders
project is, that would be greatyeah, what I see is that so many
people, for so many reasonsthat we could go into, in the
culture that we live in, in thevery materialistic culture that
we live in, that so many peopleare suffering, they are stuck,
(25:22):
they are not realizing theirinherent potential.
Aristotle has this word,entelechy, which is that which
we are meant to be.
Within the acorn lies themighty oak tree.
We don't end up the way westart out, and if the acorn gets
the proper sunlight, soil andwater, it becomes what it's
(25:43):
meant to be, which is the oaktree.
We, too, have an entelechy,something that we're meant to be
, the full expression of ourpotentials.
And everywhere I look, I seepeople who are not realizing
that potential.
And right now, in order to makethe world a better place, to get
out of this difficult time thatwe're living in, each one of us
(26:05):
needs to do the work ofbecoming our best self, because
when we become our best self,then we can do what we can do to
make the world a better place.
So I had to figure out what itwas that I could do, what my
contribution would be to makethe world a better place, and
(26:25):
that's to help other peoplerealize their intellikey to
realize their potential so thatthey can do make their
contribution to it, to a betterworld.
So I want to spread thatmessage to as many people as I
possibly can I love that wechange ourselves, we kind of
change, change the world andwhat.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
What a wonderful thing to do if I'm a listener
and I'm thinking, oh, this isreally feeling right to me.
How can they access the courseand stuff?
So how could they find yourcourse?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yes, yes.
So if you go togoheartfindersco, you can set up
a free consultation with me.
I've got a video there whereyou can learn more about the
course.
So it's goheartfindersH-E-A-R-T-F-I-N-D-E-R-S, which
is one word, co, and that is thebest way to access the course.
(27:23):
Also, if you join the course,there's a seven day free trial
period if you want to try it out, and I'm trying to make it
accessible to as many people aspossible, and I'm I'd be more
than happy to have aconversation with anybody who's
interested oh, fantastic, andI'll put links in the show notes
as well.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I think it's really really important work.
I would like to ask I like it'sone of my favorite questions is
is there anything in the worldthat you wish that?
Is there something that youwish everybody knew in the world
?
And so what is it?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
that's a great.
That's a great question.
What do I want everybody toknow?
Yeah, I want everybody to knowthat they are lovable.
I want everybody to know thatthey are worthy.
I want everybody to know thatthey have unrealized potential,
that they can cultivate, thatnobody is stuck or nobody's
(28:22):
broken and that if we work onourselves every day, we all have
infinite potential for growth.
And so, again, in the face ofso many people feeling despair,
that there is hope, and toencourage everybody to look in
(28:44):
the mirror and see the beautyinstead of the ugliness or
whatever it is that theycriticize themselves for, to be
compassionate to themselves, tobe kind and gentle and
encouraging with themselvesinstead of critical.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Kindness goes a long way and it's a much nicer lens
to view oneself because we canbe quite self-critical and see
all the things that are wrong.
So what is the one course ofaction that any listener could
do today to make their lifebetter?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
of action that any listener could do today to make
their life better.
So here's what I recommend is avery simple exercise that you
could do every day.
I do it every day.
It takes about two minutes.
I wake up in the morning and thefirst thing I do an affirmation
, which is you're amazingbecause and the evidence
indicates that if you put it inthat second word, second tense,
where you're talking to yourself, that that's more effective.
(29:40):
So you're amazing because andfill in the blank, think of
something that you did yesterday.
It doesn't have to be the mostamazing thing in the world, it's
anything right.
You're amazing because you washthe dishes right, whatever it
is.
The second one is I'mappreciative for.
So I appreciate, as Patti Smithsaid, I appreciate that I have
(30:02):
a toothbrush.
Again, it doesn't matter what itis.
Find something that you'reappreciative for.
I'm appreciative for my health,I'm appreciative for this
conversation with you.
That's what I'm going to saytomorrow.
I'm going to say I'm amazingbecause I did this and I
appreciate the fact that I hadthe opportunity to do it and to
meet you.
And the third one is toenvision.
So, whatever you want to bringinto your life, into the world,
(30:24):
whether it's short-term,medium-term, long-term,
something you want tomorrow,something you want next month,
something you want in threeyears.
To start seeing it in yourmind's eye, to cultivate that
vision, because, again, we knowthat mental rehearsal makes it
more likely that that thing isgoing to happen.
So I wake up.
(30:44):
You're amazing because Iappreciate, fill in the blank,
here's my vision, takes twominutes, starts my day, and
that's a simple thing thateverybody can do to activate the
neurons in your brain that aregoing to get you a little bit
unstuck.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
That's a great way to start the day, instead of
waking up and looking at thenews and then kind of things
that you can't change right.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Exactly exactly.
Or hitting the snooze buttonand pulling the covers over your
head, yeah, or hitting thesnooze button and pulling the
covers over your head.
Yeah, you know.
Open up the shades, let thesunlight in, start the day, and
you're going to feel better.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
That's a better way to start the day.
I like that a lot.
I'm intrigued.
Out of all the it's probably abit of a difficult question to
answer, but out of all theserock stars that you worked with,
what was the most inspiringexperience?
I bet there's probably many,but maybe there might be one
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
So I don't know the the the ages of your listeners,
so I don't know if they'll beable to understand or relate to
what I'm about to say, but I'lltry to put it in a way that it
makes sense.
So I had the extraordinaryexperience of working with Mick
Jagger from the Rolling Stones.
He's still performing in his80s, so I hope some people still
(32:06):
know who the Stones are andthey're still doing amazing work
.
And he I mean he talk aboutsomebody who's realized his
potential that this guy is inhis 80s and he's still rocking
for two and a half hours on thestage.
It's just a great, great rolemodel.
And so we were alone in thestudio together one Saturday
(32:27):
morning we were mixing arecording of a live performance
and nobody else was in the roomat that time.
I was still very I think I was19 years old at the time and we
were listening to a track and hesaid you know, I don't like my
lead vocal.
Sometimes, secretly, eventhough it's called a live
(32:49):
recording, people would replaceparts if they didn't like it.
So he said, well, set up amicrophone out for me in the
studio.
And he went out into the room,which was right across the glass
from me, maybe six feet awayfrom me, and he sang the song
Honky Tonk Women, which was oneof their biggest hits in the
late 60s.
Looking at me singing that songright to me, I got a solo
performance from Mick Jaggersinging one of his biggest hits
(33:10):
and that was a very special.
That was a very special momentand at that time I had a lot of
red hair and he said that one'sfor you, ginger, and uh, I love
(33:31):
it.
Wow, oh, that's a goodexperience.
That was absolutely great.
That was a memory and and youknow this is if I could just wax
poetic on this subject for onemore minute this is one of the
things that I encourage youngpeople to do is have adventures,
take risks.
If I hadn't have overcome myfear and walked into that studio
and suffered what I sufferedand put up with all the crap
(33:52):
that I put up with, I wouldn'thave that memory.
Today, 50 years later, I'mtelling you this story and I'm
remembering this, if you'llscrew up your life the way that
I did, but it left me withmemories that are extraordinary
(34:24):
and, in fact, that I was able towrite a book about.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah, and what a book .
Never Say no to a Rockstar.
And it's interesting becauseI've got some family members
that are only in their teens butthey love the music from that
era.
There's something timelessabout the music from that time
and I think it kind of makespeople want to be more creative,
or it does myself.
And your book Never Say no to aRockstar.
(34:50):
That's available worldwide,isn't it?
On Amazon and all the otherdifferent platforms and on
Audible, so I was starting toread it on Kindle, but I'm
actually going to download theAudible and listen to it in the
car.
But we've reached the point inthe interview where I'd like you
to share whatever you wouldlike, dr Glenn, because I think
sometimes I'm directing theinterview, but is there anything
(35:10):
you would like to share withthe listeners that we haven't
covered?
Speaker 2 (35:14):
What I was thinking a couple of minutes ago is, when
you were talking, we weretalking about creativity and
resistance and having thecourage to express yourself that
I just wanted to say how much Iappreciate you doing this, that
you're taking the risk ofhaving this podcast, bringing
(35:36):
people on, having these kinds ofconversations, sharing this
with the world.
And one thing that I learned Ihad an experience some years ago
where I worked with a woman whohad terminal cancer and she
died and for a minute I thoughtwhat was the point of our
therapy.
I wasn't able to save her and Iwent to a memorial for her.
(36:00):
I'm feeling a little emotionaltalking about this and different
people spoke about this personand one woman was speaking about
her and she said you know,barbara always said to me and
then she said words that I hadsaid to Barbara and so and she
(36:20):
said and you know, wheneverBarbara would say that it helped
me so much.
And it made me realize that wenever know.
We never know who we're helpingand how we're helping them.
We don't know you and I don'tknow who's going to be listening
to this and maybe get somethingout of it.
Maybe they'll never reach outto me.
Maybe they'll never tell you,but maybe it'll change them in a
(36:40):
positive way or inspire them ormake them feel better, and
we'll never know that.
So I appreciate you doing thiswith that faith, with that
knowing that if you put yourselfout there it's going to have a
positive effect in the world,that then that person might pass
it down to somebody else, whomight pass it down to somebody
(37:01):
else, and that's why we do this.
So I just want to thank you forhaving me on here and for doing
the work that you do and takingthe risks that you take to be
creative.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you, Dr Glenn.
I feel emotional talking to youas well.
It resonated.
That's why I started doing this.
It wasn't something that wasnatural to me and it wanted to
help people.
But listening to you today, Ifeel that you've changed my life
and what the conversationyou've had you reminded me of,
like the places I'm stuck andhow I can move forward.
(37:34):
So I thank you from the bottomof my heart and I agree if this
podcast helps listeners inwhatever way, then that's the
way it's meant to be.
So thank you for taking thetime to speak to me today.
Dear listeners, as always,there's a meditation inspired by
today's show, but, Dr GlennBerger, I'll put a link to Dr
(37:56):
Glenn's website in the notes andalso to his amazing book, which
I'm really enjoying.
Never say no to a rock star.
But thank you once again, DrGlenn.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Thank you so much for having me.
This has been so much fun.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
It's been so much fun for me as well.
So thank you.
Top tips for the meditation iseither sit nice and cross-legged
on the floor with a nicestraight back always nice to sit
on a block or a cushion.
Although that's not availablefor you, you sit in a chair with
the back nice and straight.
The important thing is you'renot slouching, and if you're
doing something that requiresyou concentration, all you need
(38:32):
to do is just pause this and youcan reconvene the meditation at
a time that is good for you.
If you're doing the meditationat a time that is good for you,
if you're doing the meditation,let's begin.
Here's today's meditation,inspired by today's deeply
inspiring show.
Some days we may approach thingsand find things flow, and other
(38:52):
times they don't.
So here's a quick two minutemeditation which is aimed to
help you feel a bit less stuckand a little bit more in the
flow, closing the eyes andbreathing calmly and deeply
through the nostrils and feel asif the nostrils flare a bit.
That allows for a bit more air.
(39:13):
And as you exhale, try and makethe inhalation and exhalation
the same length, but try to makeit so it's not forced.
It feels like a flow and as youbreathe, when you're closing
your eyes, just keep coming backto the breath, keep coming back
(39:36):
to the breath, keep coming backto the breath.
So if your mind wanders here oryour mind wanders there, just
entice it back to the breath andyou just allow that flow.
So, in and out it flows, allaround, round and round, the
(39:57):
breath does flow and you feel asif you have arrived in the most
creative room that you canimagine in your imagination, in
(40:24):
your imagination, and it's asimple meditation.
As you breathe, a beautifulboard is in front of you and on
that board is a chalk.
And as you breathe and you'recalm, and even if the mind
flitters off somewhere, you cancome back to that breath and
just be slow.
(40:44):
So there's nothing big that youneed to do in the meditation
today, but I invite you, from ofcalm, to go and pick up the
piece of chalk and just write onit one thing that you love
(41:06):
about yourself, the first thingthat comes into your head.
Take a few more breaths as youbreathe in and out through the
nostrils, that sense of calmness, that sense of being and that
(41:29):
sense of yourself, and pick upthe chalk again and write one
thing that you're proud of Onething that you're proud of, and
(41:58):
then return back to the breath,nice and calmly, nice and deeply
.
Finally, when you feel stuck,write one word or phrase that in
your imagination that will helpyou.
It could be get more fresh air,go out in nature.
It could be anything butsomething that is good for you,
(42:19):
that is going to help you onthis journey, and then slowly
come back into the moment, comeback into the room and you may
want to jot down those detailson a piece of paper to help you
navigate through the day.
(42:40):
So thank you for listening.
There's always a meditation onthe end of the episode, so if
you want a longer or shortermeditation, then by all means
explore those meditations.
So thank you for listening.
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