December 4, 2020 • 28 mins
In light of the recent United States Presidential Election, Hosts Z and Jess discuss the topic of Patriotism.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello weekend.
It's your host, Jess Cincy.
You'll be hearing someinteresting statistics today
about those who have fought forour country.
And just as a starter for thosewho don't know, Crispus addicts
was a black American in the 17hundreds, who was the first
(00:25):
black American who gave his lifefor our freedom independence
from the British colonies.
There were also black militarymen known as the bucks of
America.
(00:45):
And according to Wikipedia, theywent all black militia that were
organized in 1775.
So you'll be learning thatAfrican-Americans black
Americans have been serving inthis country, not just as
(01:06):
slaves, but have actually puttheir lives on the line on
purpose for all Americans.
We hope that you learn somethingtoday and as always, we love to
hear your comments.
Please, don't hesitate to emailus@infoandawakenedandamerica.com
(01:28):
stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
You're listening to awaken in America, two minds on
a journey to create dialogueabout diversity inclusion and
optimism.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
And then, yeah, go ahead.
I was going to say, and youknow, the irony of that is, um,
even the us army website, um,lists African-Americans as
having served in every conflictin the United States over the
past 200 years, every conflict.
(02:16):
So we've put our lives on theline constantly, um, because we
are Americans and, you know, asan example in world war II, more
than 2.5 million blacks wereregistered and that's men and
women for world war two.
And we can see similar numbersover the course of the different
(02:39):
Wars, civil war, more than amillion lacks volunteered.
So, and then, you know, so it'slike time and time again, you
know, we have this, we havepeople saying that we're
unpatriotic or they're trying toblack Americans as writers and,
(03:04):
uh, terrorists when we obviouslyare Patriots because who else?
Volunteers to fight in Warsexcept for Patriots who love
their country and yet, and still, um, it seems to be as though
we just can't get justice on theother side.
So it's like, it's okay to diefor your country.
(03:28):
But then when you talk aboutequal rights, Oh no, we can't go
there.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Right?
Yeah.
And one of the things that Icame across to tie it back to
what's coming up so soon, youknow, the election is upon us.
One of the things that I readtoday that struck me because
there is, you know, the currentpresident who's really kind of
trying to rally this racistsegment of the population and
(03:56):
make those ties to thepatriotism.
So something I read today, notall Trump supporters are racist,
but all of them decided thatracism isn't a deal breaker.
So I think we can all decide onyou want to be a closet Trump
supporter, because I don't knowanybody that's openly a Trump
supporter, but if you're acloset, Trump supporter, just
think about that for a second,because that is a really
(04:20):
legitimate point about whitefragility and the role it plays
in our society and in thiselection, I think if you don't
want to call yourself racist,okay.
I guess, but then accept thatracism is not a deal breaker for
you because that is what thiselection, this party is about is
writing on.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yes, yes.
And you know, I feel that it's,um, It's a scary time too,
beyond the police violencebeyond just surviving as an
African-American.
Like, I know that I can survive.
(05:02):
I told you once.
And it's one thing that I liveby, which is my ancestors
survived the trip, right.
So they made it across thewaters.
They got here, they survivedhere.
I know I can survive, but Ishouldn't have to just survive.
(05:22):
They died so that I could live,people are asking to live.
People are asking to have thesame freedoms and experience the
same equality for education, forhousing.
Um, it just seems so simple.
And yet it's, it's tied tomoney.
(05:46):
Yes.
And you know, it's tied to equalpolitics
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Education.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
As a matter of fact, what was, is that Lincoln freed
the slaves that won theConfederate side so that they
could fight, but the union ones,they weren't free so they could
fight in the war.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(06:15):
In other words, you know, youuse this to help win the war.
Of course.
How do I feel about that?
I mean, it's water under thebridge, but it just speaks to
the larger umbrella here of thelack of respect for, um, for
everything that we've done forthis country.
(06:38):
You know, the land that we'vetoiled, the inventions like
soybeans and salad, dressingsand stoplights and blood
transfusions, and, you know, thelist goes on and on it's like,
you just don't want toacknowledge the simple truths
(06:58):
about black people.
And I guess it's because itwould decrease your status,
decrease your status thissomehow.
I mean, that's, that's the onlything that makes sense logically
to me.
I can't understand any otherreason why people would work so
(07:18):
hard.
Um, I dunno
Speaker 3 (07:22):
To oppress.
Yeah.
And on that note, I've beenreading about, we talked about,
you know, the difference in theright to bear arms and what that
means between African-Americansand white people.
And the, the ways that we'reboth, both races are expected to
protect our country the same byputting our lives on the line.
But when it comes to gettingrewarded or getting compensated,
(07:45):
there's a big difference.
And there's a lot written aboutthis.
Um, I was reading something onhistory.com, but I know Atlantic
and a lot of, uh, differentsources have cited this, but the
GI bill after world war two wasreally instrumental in keeping
segregation in place.
And one of the ways that wasdone was, you know, there was a
(08:09):
big push to get people toenlist.
There's a lot of promises madeabout what you're going to get
as a veteran when you come back.
So for thinking about that inthe forties, that's a pretty
good selling point for given thehistory of the country for
African-Americans, they'rethinking maybe this is a chance
to level the playing field alittle bit more provide for your
(08:31):
family and this and that.
So they come back from the warand then the way that the
mortgages were distributed,first of all, there were people
like this Congressman andMississippi who really lobbied
so that the distribution of theGI bill and what a provided
could be given on the statelevel and not the federal
(08:53):
government level.
So that was a big differencebecause the Southern States,
they're still wanting to enforceJim Crow era stuff and keep
things segregated.
So once they were kind of giventhat control, that really
changed the way that people weregoing to be compensated for
African-Americans specifically.
And the numbers are just crazy.
I came across in New York andNew Jersey States alone.
(09:15):
There were 67,000 mortgagesinsured by the GI bill and fewer
than 100 of those went tonon-whites.
So, uh, the VA could onlyco-sign, but the banks were
given basically free reign todiscriminate and choose to lend
to white people over minorities.
(09:36):
So what does that mean for ustoday?
Well, we talk about things likegenerational wealth and
redlining, and this was anopportunity to build a nest egg,
to live in a more affluent area,and that was taken away.
So that's a big deal in where weare today.
And the other problem with theway the GI bill was distributed
(10:01):
was, um, involving the educationgap.
So people were applying tocolleges and if you were
African-American, you were most,most likely being turned, turned
away.
And so then they were beingfunneled back to the
African-American colleges.
And because those were soflooded with applicants, they
actually had to turnAfrican-Americans away because
(10:21):
they didn't have the resourcesand they were too spread too
thin.
So they were at something like20,000 applicants that were
turned away from college thatwho were veterans who had served
our country, put their lives onthe line, came back, applied to
college and couldn't get inanywhere.
So when we're talking aboutthings like the educational gap
and the economic gap that reallywidened, widened both of those
(10:43):
and, um, history.com actuallysaid it ultimately shut doors to
1.2 million African-Americanveterans for the, where they
could've potentially advancedfor the educational and economic
gap.
And then it goes on to say in2017 census data showed the
white household median income,68,000 145 versus the
(11:05):
African-American medianhousehold income, 40,258.
Wow.
Again, if you're going, I don'tthink systemic racism exists.
Then what you're saying isAfrican-American people are born
because they areAfrican-American with an
inability to make as much moneyas a white person.
(11:25):
Right.
That's why you're sayingexactly.
It must be something wrong withyou, right?
So in the interest of acceptingwhere we are with systemic
racism and accepting that it's aproblem and ultimately
empowering people, hopefully,you know, as, as the optimistic
takeaway, empowering them toacknowledge it, take
(11:47):
accountability and then startmaking some of those small
changes that we talked about.
Hopefully getting to know moreAfrican-American people becoming
friends, supporting black ownedbusinesses, um, kind of finding
ways that you can introduce yourchildren to leaders in the
community who areAfrican-American, whether it's a
family doctor or a dentist, or,um, a mentor, a teacher, we have
(12:11):
to find ways in our everydaylives to debunk the ways that
implicit bias have woventhemselves into our American
culture in our, our society.
If we're gonna actually try tomake things better.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
And, uh, Tim wise I'll bring him up again.
Uh, why like me, he alsomentioned using himself as an
example, um, and his childrenabout how the implicit bias can
also work with movies, yourchildren watch videos that they
(12:46):
may see, and that, you know, youneed to also use those
opportunities to clarify whenyou yourself understand that
something is discriminatory or,you know, if something is, if
something is trying to implythat a race is somehow inferior
(13:14):
or could not be this, or couldnot be that, that you need to
take time to say, well, maybe weshould consider that, you know,
anybody can be an astronaut.
Anybody can be, you know,because many of the books still
there's some new books now, butmany of the books still have
(13:36):
like one image for who'sachieving everything.
And you really need to payattention to that.
And it's not saying you don'twant your children to be proud
of their ethnicity because youdo, but they're not going to
lack that because that's theoverwhelming majority of
information that's still exists.
So you need to change thenarrative in order for them to
(13:57):
think differently and thinkoutside the box, like, yeah, of
course there are black doctors.
Of course there are blackofficers.
Of course, blacks are good guys.
And you know, like if you don'thave those conversations, if you
don't seek out the resources,the library books, you know, um,
(14:19):
then you're going to do yourchild a disservice because
they're going to, into a worldthat is framed a certain kind of
way.
And the only way to change thatfor their generation and the
next generations is for you tostart doing it at home.
And they're going to believe youyou're, you're the, you're the
(14:39):
parent.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Right?
And it requires that initiative.
I think on the white people likemyself to seek out those
learning opportunities for yourchildren, because it doesn't
suffice to just not address it.
Um, by doing that, you're nothelping the, you know,
(15:01):
normalizing the discussion is akey part, I think, in this.
And that can start really early.
The things I was reading, it wastalking about children start to
understand differences in skincolor is early as like four and
five.
So
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Yeah, we had that in our class, remember in the
preschool class, the kids, youknow, had their faces colored on
a string.
And it was funny to see like,you know, kids pick different
crayons.
Steven
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Identified as African-American that day.
And I loved it.
I was so excited.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
He brought it home.
I was like, that's how it shouldbe.
And that is,
Speaker 3 (15:46):
But I can foster that thinking in him that we're all
the same, you know?
And they're at such crucial ageswhen they're little like that,
to really absorb that and seeyou living that yourself because
ultimately, whereas they'reimportant, but it's really the
actions that are going to showthem that this is how society
should be, you know, and thatrequires effort.
(16:09):
So on, on our parts as whitepeople.
And I think that's somethingthat little by little, you know,
you can make this commitment todoing better and doing more, and
it's not, it's not going tohappen overnight as I can
testify to myself.
It's, it's hard and it's reallyemotional and you learn a lot
(16:31):
about yourself and a lot of itis ugly, but that reckoning has
to happen for us to be able tomove forward and to teach our
kids to do better.
So that's kind of what I tellmyself on the days when I'm
like, what am I doing with thispodcast?
I don't even know anything aboutthis and here I am trying to
(16:53):
help people.
But that's my point, I think, isjust to be relatable in this
moment that we're in, because Iknow my, you know, um, my small
little population of white mom,friends that I speak with it say
the same thing about feelingthis compulsion to do something
and wanting to do something andnot knowing what to do by the
(17:15):
way on that note.
I want to point out somethingthat I also learned in the last
few weeks, which is I made thismistake myself to you.
So I want to apologize again forthat, but when I was new to this
discussion and things werehappening in George Floyd and
everything was getting goingwith black lives matter.
I know I asked you more thanonce.
Um, how can I help?
What can I do?
(17:36):
So the thing that I learned, Ilistened, I did listen in with
Dr.
Ebro, max Kendi and Dr.
Robin de Angelo.
And one of the things RobinAngelo mentions is never ask
your friend, your friend, that'san, African-American what you
can do to help because that'sputting the emotional,
psychological onus back on themas if they owe it to you too.
(18:02):
And you know, what you can doinstead to reframe it is do some
reading on your own, you know,kind of do your research and
show that you're invested inthis cause, and then it doesn't
come across as if you'reexpecting them to do your
homework for you basically.
But, um, yeah, that was my ahamoment.
(18:25):
I was like, I definitely didthat to Z and I apologize.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
And, you know, I didn't, I didn't take it for
that.
Um, but you know, I've, I'vebeen told by my family that I'm
a slight odd ball as a child.
I was a little bit different.
I'm very eclectic with music anddifferent things like this.
And, um, but I'm, I'm gratefulfor being the way that I am.
(18:51):
And I, things like that.
I probably just brushed it offmy shoulder.
Um, because to be honest withyou, if you don't brush a lot of
things off your shoulders as aperson to come,
Speaker 3 (19:05):
The fact that you have a smile on your face when
you're having these darkconversations is a Testament to
how you have, you know, learnedor been born with this ability
to just rise above.
Yeah,
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, so, um, you know, it waskind of like that thing where,
you know, your kids saying,mommy, can you make me
breakfast?
And you're like, okay, as youreally need a second cup of
coffee, it's kind of like that,you know, you just kind of push
through it and you get it done.
You know, you love them.
(19:38):
And you're like, yeah, I'm goingto do this.
You know,
Speaker 3 (19:41):
But that is a very watered down example, you know,
breakfast versus people, youknow, have been directly
affected by discrimination,racism, police brutality.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah.
It's not for the, it's not forthe faint-hearted it isn't, but
I don't want white progressivesto become discouraged because
there is a light at the end ofthe tunnel.
Okay.
And the treasure at the end ofthe rainbow is the generations
to come.
So, you know, I think we haveto, we have to think of it that
(20:15):
way and that if we don't see, Imean, I never thought I would
see a black president and myhusband and friends of mine,
cousins, we all discuss itamongst ourselves.
And we never thought in our timethat we would see an
African-American president andit happened
Speaker 3 (20:35):
When you first told me that I was like, really?
Cause I, because of my whiteprivilege, I guess I'd never
really thought about howunlikely that would be because
of systemic racism and what'sgoing on country, you know?
And then when you said multipletimes, I still can't believe
that we had an African-Americanpresident.
Um, every time you say that I'mlike, really, because we should
(20:57):
be there, you know,
Speaker 1 (20:59):
We should, but we're in so many ways as we're seeing
that, that was an anomaly.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
And I think that's a Testament to where you view
things, you know, in terms ofthe progress that we've made
over the years as a country, um,being African-American versus
the way that I thought of.
Yeah, we're good.
There's no racism.
Why wouldn't we have anAfrican-American president, my
previous self, you know, andonly more recently have I
(21:29):
learned what I've learned and,you know, made this commitment
to myself to keep learning aboutit.
But, um, that's, that's a,that's a Testament right there.
Yes.
Yes.
I think you had a takeaway toshare.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I have a takeaway before I give my takeaway.
I did want to say that just forthe history buffs and I am not
one.
So, um, but just for the historypeople, I did want to
acknowledge that when I saidthat, um, the slaves, um, on the
Confederate side, which isobviously predominantly the
(22:06):
South, um, we're allowed to be,um, in the war.
I also wanted to say that thatwas in January.
Um, that was, uh, in January of1863.
So by December, then theNorthern in Maryland and those
(22:30):
States, then they were alsofreed the message took a while
to get to them.
But it was also the fact thatthat was a strategic move.
So certain ones were freed firstand then kind of, so I just
wanted to clarify that the,because yes, the emancipation
proclamation did exist when itwas put into the law.
(22:52):
However, comma, it didn't allhappen at the same time.
It actually, it took up to twoyears
Speaker 3 (22:59):
As we know from Juneteenth and what that
commemorates.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
So, um, but yes, so to leave on a pleasant note, uh,
I was watching a nationalgeographic documentary about the
oldest living will war twoveteran, uh, a man by the name
of Mr.
Richard, over 1,009 years old.
(23:27):
And, you know, just watching himin the documentary, he was just
so pleasant, you know, and as anAfrican-American man, you, you
know, I have to imagine that heencountered segregation like so
many times in his life and wastold what he couldn't do and had
(23:48):
so many obstacles.
He said, he's never even toucheda credit card.
Like he only pays cash.
Um, he still takes his drivingtests and he goes to church.
Yeah.
And, um, you know, so I just,um, I was in awe, um, and he had
all his faculties, you know, hefeeds his little cats and stuff.
(24:09):
I mean, so, so cute.
But, um, um, at the end of bit,he said something that my
grandfather used to say, and itjust blew my mind because I
hadn't heard it since mygrandfather passed.
And also, yeah.
So my grandfather served inworld war two.
(24:31):
Yes.
Um, and in the, uh, AsianPacific war and he got a bronze
star, Willie Williams and, um,and yes, and he said, I may give
out, but I never give up.
And I like to leave everyonewith that I make about, but I
(24:54):
never give up.
So just when it gets hard,digesting all this, and that's
all I have to do,
Speaker 3 (25:05):
A percent is just digest and learn and be a
student of it.
That's what I also tell myselfis you've had to live this and I
have had the privilege oflearning about it as an adult.
So there you go.
We all have more to learn.
And I know now I will be aforever student of this and I
(25:29):
will be forever learning.
And, um, thanks again, Z forbeing such a strong, positive,
empathetic, and, um, patientfriend to me.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
And thank you also for just being willing to go
down this, I call it the rabbithole with me really at times it
really is endless.
And, um, and I know it'semotionally taxing and I, yes,
I, I understand that you don'tlive it, but you still signed up
(26:02):
for it and you stuck with it.
And I admire you for that.
And I, I give big hair hugs.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Yeah, yeah.
And front end listeners.
That's why we haven't beenrecording for a couple of weeks.
We were trying to processeverything.
And as you know, there's moremomentum and more headlines
around black lives matter.
And we really try to beorganized with our thoughts and
(26:33):
the way that we, even though wewant it to be a dialogue, we
really put a lot of effort intotrying to make this educational
and informal.
So we would love to hear fromyou, if you have any things
you'd like to hear more about,if you think we went on and on
about something that was reallyboring and off topic, please
share with us.
Um, our email is in thedescription of our podcast, but
(26:55):
it's info@awakenedinamerica.com.
And, uh, yeah, we would love toknow what you think would be
interesting to hear more about.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
And if you're looking for a citations, I'll be happy
to provide them for you.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
She is a wealth of knowledge, really on all things
related to race and racism andeducating ourselves, no matter
what your age or where you arein this, um, in this journey.
So thank you all for tuning inand for going through all these
emotions with us.
And, um, we will talk to younext time.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yes.
Stay awakened.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Thanks everyone for listening to today's episode
about patriotism.
One last correction we wanted tomake Mr.
Overton was actually 109 years,not 112 years old at the time of
filming way to go.
Mr.
Overton still equallyimpressive.
And finally just wanted to leaveyou all with the idea that
patriotism should mean the samefor all of us.
(27:56):
If you're serving our country,you're putting your lives on the
line and we appreciate you.
And we thank you.
So stay safe and stay healthy.
Thank you for listening toawakened in America.
If you enjoy today's podcast, besure to subscribe and leave a
review.
You can also find us onInstagram at awakened in
(28:18):
America.
That's awakened underscore inunderscore America and remember
be mindful, be grateful.
And most of all be you.
Hello weekend.
It's your host, Jess Cincy.
You'll be hearing someinteresting statistics today
about those who have fought forour country.
And just as a starter for thosewho don't know, Crispus addicts
was a black American in the 17hundreds, who was the first
(00:25):
black American who gave his lifefor our freedom independence
from the British colonies.
There were also black militarymen known as the bucks of
America.
(00:45):
And according to Wikipedia, theywent all black militia that were
organized in 1775.
So you'll be learning thatAfrican-Americans black
Americans have been serving inthis country, not just as
(01:06):
slaves, but have actually puttheir lives on the line on
purpose for all Americans.
We hope that you learn somethingtoday and as always, we love to
hear your comments.
Please, don't hesitate to emailus@infoandawakenedandamerica.com
(01:28):
stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
You're listening to awaken in America, two minds on
a journey to create dialogueabout diversity inclusion and
optimism.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
And then, yeah, go ahead.
I was going to say, and youknow, the irony of that is, um,
even the us army website, um,lists African-Americans as
having served in every conflictin the United States over the
past 200 years, every conflict.
(02:16):
So we've put our lives on theline constantly, um, because we
are Americans and, you know, asan example in world war II, more
than 2.5 million blacks wereregistered and that's men and
women for world war two.
And we can see similar numbersover the course of the different
(02:39):
Wars, civil war, more than amillion lacks volunteered.
So, and then, you know, so it'slike time and time again, you
know, we have this, we havepeople saying that we're
unpatriotic or they're trying toblack Americans as writers and,
(03:04):
uh, terrorists when we obviouslyare Patriots because who else?
Volunteers to fight in Warsexcept for Patriots who love
their country and yet, and still, um, it seems to be as though
we just can't get justice on theother side.
So it's like, it's okay to diefor your country.
(03:28):
But then when you talk aboutequal rights, Oh no, we can't go
there.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Right?
Yeah.
And one of the things that Icame across to tie it back to
what's coming up so soon, youknow, the election is upon us.
One of the things that I readtoday that struck me because
there is, you know, the currentpresident who's really kind of
trying to rally this racistsegment of the population and
(03:56):
make those ties to thepatriotism.
So something I read today, notall Trump supporters are racist,
but all of them decided thatracism isn't a deal breaker.
So I think we can all decide onyou want to be a closet Trump
supporter, because I don't knowanybody that's openly a Trump
supporter, but if you're acloset, Trump supporter, just
think about that for a second,because that is a really
(04:20):
legitimate point about whitefragility and the role it plays
in our society and in thiselection, I think if you don't
want to call yourself racist,okay.
I guess, but then accept thatracism is not a deal breaker for
you because that is what thiselection, this party is about is
writing on.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yes, yes.
And you know, I feel that it's,um, It's a scary time too,
beyond the police violencebeyond just surviving as an
African-American.
Like, I know that I can survive.
(05:02):
I told you once.
And it's one thing that I liveby, which is my ancestors
survived the trip, right.
So they made it across thewaters.
They got here, they survivedhere.
I know I can survive, but Ishouldn't have to just survive.
(05:22):
They died so that I could live,people are asking to live.
People are asking to have thesame freedoms and experience the
same equality for education, forhousing.
Um, it just seems so simple.
And yet it's, it's tied tomoney.
(05:46):
Yes.
And you know, it's tied to equalpolitics
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Education.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
As a matter of fact, what was, is that Lincoln freed
the slaves that won theConfederate side so that they
could fight, but the union ones,they weren't free so they could
fight in the war.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(06:15):
In other words, you know, youuse this to help win the war.
Of course.
How do I feel about that?
I mean, it's water under thebridge, but it just speaks to
the larger umbrella here of thelack of respect for, um, for
everything that we've done forthis country.
(06:38):
You know, the land that we'vetoiled, the inventions like
soybeans and salad, dressingsand stoplights and blood
transfusions, and, you know, thelist goes on and on it's like,
you just don't want toacknowledge the simple truths
(06:58):
about black people.
And I guess it's because itwould decrease your status,
decrease your status thissomehow.
I mean, that's, that's the onlything that makes sense logically
to me.
I can't understand any otherreason why people would work so
(07:18):
hard.
Um, I dunno
Speaker 3 (07:22):
To oppress.
Yeah.
And on that note, I've beenreading about, we talked about,
you know, the difference in theright to bear arms and what that
means between African-Americansand white people.
And the, the ways that we'reboth, both races are expected to
protect our country the same byputting our lives on the line.
But when it comes to gettingrewarded or getting compensated,
(07:45):
there's a big difference.
And there's a lot written aboutthis.
Um, I was reading something onhistory.com, but I know Atlantic
and a lot of, uh, differentsources have cited this, but the
GI bill after world war two wasreally instrumental in keeping
segregation in place.
And one of the ways that wasdone was, you know, there was a
(08:09):
big push to get people toenlist.
There's a lot of promises madeabout what you're going to get
as a veteran when you come back.
So for thinking about that inthe forties, that's a pretty
good selling point for given thehistory of the country for
African-Americans, they'rethinking maybe this is a chance
to level the playing field alittle bit more provide for your
(08:31):
family and this and that.
So they come back from the warand then the way that the
mortgages were distributed,first of all, there were people
like this Congressman andMississippi who really lobbied
so that the distribution of theGI bill and what a provided
could be given on the statelevel and not the federal
(08:53):
government level.
So that was a big differencebecause the Southern States,
they're still wanting to enforceJim Crow era stuff and keep
things segregated.
So once they were kind of giventhat control, that really
changed the way that people weregoing to be compensated for
African-Americans specifically.
And the numbers are just crazy.
I came across in New York andNew Jersey States alone.
(09:15):
There were 67,000 mortgagesinsured by the GI bill and fewer
than 100 of those went tonon-whites.
So, uh, the VA could onlyco-sign, but the banks were
given basically free reign todiscriminate and choose to lend
to white people over minorities.
(09:36):
So what does that mean for ustoday?
Well, we talk about things likegenerational wealth and
redlining, and this was anopportunity to build a nest egg,
to live in a more affluent area,and that was taken away.
So that's a big deal in where weare today.
And the other problem with theway the GI bill was distributed
(10:01):
was, um, involving the educationgap.
So people were applying tocolleges and if you were
African-American, you were most,most likely being turned, turned
away.
And so then they were beingfunneled back to the
African-American colleges.
And because those were soflooded with applicants, they
actually had to turnAfrican-Americans away because
(10:21):
they didn't have the resourcesand they were too spread too
thin.
So they were at something like20,000 applicants that were
turned away from college thatwho were veterans who had served
our country, put their lives onthe line, came back, applied to
college and couldn't get inanywhere.
So when we're talking aboutthings like the educational gap
and the economic gap that reallywidened, widened both of those
(10:43):
and, um, history.com actuallysaid it ultimately shut doors to
1.2 million African-Americanveterans for the, where they
could've potentially advancedfor the educational and economic
gap.
And then it goes on to say in2017 census data showed the
white household median income,68,000 145 versus the
(11:05):
African-American medianhousehold income, 40,258.
Wow.
Again, if you're going, I don'tthink systemic racism exists.
Then what you're saying isAfrican-American people are born
because they areAfrican-American with an
inability to make as much moneyas a white person.
(11:25):
Right.
That's why you're sayingexactly.
It must be something wrong withyou, right?
So in the interest of acceptingwhere we are with systemic
racism and accepting that it's aproblem and ultimately
empowering people, hopefully,you know, as, as the optimistic
takeaway, empowering them toacknowledge it, take
(11:47):
accountability and then startmaking some of those small
changes that we talked about.
Hopefully getting to know moreAfrican-American people becoming
friends, supporting black ownedbusinesses, um, kind of finding
ways that you can introduce yourchildren to leaders in the
community who areAfrican-American, whether it's a
family doctor or a dentist, or,um, a mentor, a teacher, we have
(12:11):
to find ways in our everydaylives to debunk the ways that
implicit bias have woventhemselves into our American
culture in our, our society.
If we're gonna actually try tomake things better.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
And, uh, Tim wise I'll bring him up again.
Uh, why like me, he alsomentioned using himself as an
example, um, and his childrenabout how the implicit bias can
also work with movies, yourchildren watch videos that they
(12:46):
may see, and that, you know, youneed to also use those
opportunities to clarify whenyou yourself understand that
something is discriminatory or,you know, if something is, if
something is trying to implythat a race is somehow inferior
(13:14):
or could not be this, or couldnot be that, that you need to
take time to say, well, maybe weshould consider that, you know,
anybody can be an astronaut.
Anybody can be, you know,because many of the books still
there's some new books now, butmany of the books still have
(13:36):
like one image for who'sachieving everything.
And you really need to payattention to that.
And it's not saying you don'twant your children to be proud
of their ethnicity because youdo, but they're not going to
lack that because that's theoverwhelming majority of
information that's still exists.
So you need to change thenarrative in order for them to
(13:57):
think differently and thinkoutside the box, like, yeah, of
course there are black doctors.
Of course there are blackofficers.
Of course, blacks are good guys.
And you know, like if you don'thave those conversations, if you
don't seek out the resources,the library books, you know, um,
(14:19):
then you're going to do yourchild a disservice because
they're going to, into a worldthat is framed a certain kind of
way.
And the only way to change thatfor their generation and the
next generations is for you tostart doing it at home.
And they're going to believe youyou're, you're the, you're the
(14:39):
parent.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Right?
And it requires that initiative.
I think on the white people likemyself to seek out those
learning opportunities for yourchildren, because it doesn't
suffice to just not address it.
Um, by doing that, you're nothelping the, you know,
(15:01):
normalizing the discussion is akey part, I think, in this.
And that can start really early.
The things I was reading, it wastalking about children start to
understand differences in skincolor is early as like four and
five.
So
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Yeah, we had that in our class, remember in the
preschool class, the kids, youknow, had their faces colored on
a string.
And it was funny to see like,you know, kids pick different
crayons.
Steven
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Identified as African-American that day.
And I loved it.
I was so excited.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
He brought it home.
I was like, that's how it shouldbe.
And that is,
Speaker 3 (15:46):
But I can foster that thinking in him that we're all
the same, you know?
And they're at such crucial ageswhen they're little like that,
to really absorb that and seeyou living that yourself because
ultimately, whereas they'reimportant, but it's really the
actions that are going to showthem that this is how society
should be, you know, and thatrequires effort.
(16:09):
So on, on our parts as whitepeople.
And I think that's somethingthat little by little, you know,
you can make this commitment todoing better and doing more, and
it's not, it's not going tohappen overnight as I can
testify to myself.
It's, it's hard and it's reallyemotional and you learn a lot
(16:31):
about yourself and a lot of itis ugly, but that reckoning has
to happen for us to be able tomove forward and to teach our
kids to do better.
So that's kind of what I tellmyself on the days when I'm
like, what am I doing with thispodcast?
I don't even know anything aboutthis and here I am trying to
(16:53):
help people.
But that's my point, I think, isjust to be relatable in this
moment that we're in, because Iknow my, you know, um, my small
little population of white mom,friends that I speak with it say
the same thing about feelingthis compulsion to do something
and wanting to do something andnot knowing what to do by the
(17:15):
way on that note.
I want to point out somethingthat I also learned in the last
few weeks, which is I made thismistake myself to you.
So I want to apologize again forthat, but when I was new to this
discussion and things werehappening in George Floyd and
everything was getting goingwith black lives matter.
I know I asked you more thanonce.
Um, how can I help?
What can I do?
(17:36):
So the thing that I learned, Ilistened, I did listen in with
Dr.
Ebro, max Kendi and Dr.
Robin de Angelo.
And one of the things RobinAngelo mentions is never ask
your friend, your friend, that'san, African-American what you
can do to help because that'sputting the emotional,
psychological onus back on themas if they owe it to you too.
(18:02):
And you know, what you can doinstead to reframe it is do some
reading on your own, you know,kind of do your research and
show that you're invested inthis cause, and then it doesn't
come across as if you'reexpecting them to do your
homework for you basically.
But, um, yeah, that was my ahamoment.
(18:25):
I was like, I definitely didthat to Z and I apologize.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
And, you know, I didn't, I didn't take it for
that.
Um, but you know, I've, I'vebeen told by my family that I'm
a slight odd ball as a child.
I was a little bit different.
I'm very eclectic with music anddifferent things like this.
And, um, but I'm, I'm gratefulfor being the way that I am.
(18:51):
And I, things like that.
I probably just brushed it offmy shoulder.
Um, because to be honest withyou, if you don't brush a lot of
things off your shoulders as aperson to come,
Speaker 3 (19:05):
The fact that you have a smile on your face when
you're having these darkconversations is a Testament to
how you have, you know, learnedor been born with this ability
to just rise above.
Yeah,
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, so, um, you know, it waskind of like that thing where,
you know, your kids saying,mommy, can you make me
breakfast?
And you're like, okay, as youreally need a second cup of
coffee, it's kind of like that,you know, you just kind of push
through it and you get it done.
You know, you love them.
(19:38):
And you're like, yeah, I'm goingto do this.
You know,
Speaker 3 (19:41):
But that is a very watered down example, you know,
breakfast versus people, youknow, have been directly
affected by discrimination,racism, police brutality.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah.
It's not for the, it's not forthe faint-hearted it isn't, but
I don't want white progressivesto become discouraged because
there is a light at the end ofthe tunnel.
Okay.
And the treasure at the end ofthe rainbow is the generations
to come.
So, you know, I think we haveto, we have to think of it that
(20:15):
way and that if we don't see, Imean, I never thought I would
see a black president and myhusband and friends of mine,
cousins, we all discuss itamongst ourselves.
And we never thought in our timethat we would see an
African-American president andit happened
Speaker 3 (20:35):
When you first told me that I was like, really?
Cause I, because of my whiteprivilege, I guess I'd never
really thought about howunlikely that would be because
of systemic racism and what'sgoing on country, you know?
And then when you said multipletimes, I still can't believe
that we had an African-Americanpresident.
Um, every time you say that I'mlike, really, because we should
(20:57):
be there, you know,
Speaker 1 (20:59):
We should, but we're in so many ways as we're seeing
that, that was an anomaly.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
And I think that's a Testament to where you view
things, you know, in terms ofthe progress that we've made
over the years as a country, um,being African-American versus
the way that I thought of.
Yeah, we're good.
There's no racism.
Why wouldn't we have anAfrican-American president, my
previous self, you know, andonly more recently have I
(21:29):
learned what I've learned and,you know, made this commitment
to myself to keep learning aboutit.
But, um, that's, that's a,that's a Testament right there.
Yes.
Yes.
I think you had a takeaway toshare.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I have a takeaway before I give my takeaway.
I did want to say that just forthe history buffs and I am not
one.
So, um, but just for the historypeople, I did want to
acknowledge that when I saidthat, um, the slaves, um, on the
Confederate side, which isobviously predominantly the
(22:06):
South, um, we're allowed to be,um, in the war.
I also wanted to say that thatwas in January.
Um, that was, uh, in January of1863.
So by December, then theNorthern in Maryland and those
(22:30):
States, then they were alsofreed the message took a while
to get to them.
But it was also the fact thatthat was a strategic move.
So certain ones were freed firstand then kind of, so I just
wanted to clarify that the,because yes, the emancipation
proclamation did exist when itwas put into the law.
(22:52):
However, comma, it didn't allhappen at the same time.
It actually, it took up to twoyears
Speaker 3 (22:59):
As we know from Juneteenth and what that
commemorates.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
So, um, but yes, so to leave on a pleasant note, uh,
I was watching a nationalgeographic documentary about the
oldest living will war twoveteran, uh, a man by the name
of Mr.
Richard, over 1,009 years old.
(23:27):
And, you know, just watching himin the documentary, he was just
so pleasant, you know, and as anAfrican-American man, you, you
know, I have to imagine that heencountered segregation like so
many times in his life and wastold what he couldn't do and had
(23:48):
so many obstacles.
He said, he's never even toucheda credit card.
Like he only pays cash.
Um, he still takes his drivingtests and he goes to church.
Yeah.
And, um, you know, so I just,um, I was in awe, um, and he had
all his faculties, you know, hefeeds his little cats and stuff.
(24:09):
I mean, so, so cute.
But, um, um, at the end of bit,he said something that my
grandfather used to say, and itjust blew my mind because I
hadn't heard it since mygrandfather passed.
And also, yeah.
So my grandfather served inworld war two.
(24:31):
Yes.
Um, and in the, uh, AsianPacific war and he got a bronze
star, Willie Williams and, um,and yes, and he said, I may give
out, but I never give up.
And I like to leave everyonewith that I make about, but I
(24:54):
never give up.
So just when it gets hard,digesting all this, and that's
all I have to do,
Speaker 3 (25:05):
A percent is just digest and learn and be a
student of it.
That's what I also tell myselfis you've had to live this and I
have had the privilege oflearning about it as an adult.
So there you go.
We all have more to learn.
And I know now I will be aforever student of this and I
(25:29):
will be forever learning.
And, um, thanks again, Z forbeing such a strong, positive,
empathetic, and, um, patientfriend to me.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
And thank you also for just being willing to go
down this, I call it the rabbithole with me really at times it
really is endless.
And, um, and I know it'semotionally taxing and I, yes,
I, I understand that you don'tlive it, but you still signed up
(26:02):
for it and you stuck with it.
And I admire you for that.
And I, I give big hair hugs.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Yeah, yeah.
And front end listeners.
That's why we haven't beenrecording for a couple of weeks.
We were trying to processeverything.
And as you know, there's moremomentum and more headlines
around black lives matter.
And we really try to beorganized with our thoughts and
(26:33):
the way that we, even though wewant it to be a dialogue, we
really put a lot of effort intotrying to make this educational
and informal.
So we would love to hear fromyou, if you have any things
you'd like to hear more about,if you think we went on and on
about something that was reallyboring and off topic, please
share with us.
Um, our email is in thedescription of our podcast, but
(26:55):
it's info@awakenedinamerica.com.
And, uh, yeah, we would love toknow what you think would be
interesting to hear more about.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
And if you're looking for a citations, I'll be happy
to provide them for you.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
She is a wealth of knowledge, really on all things
related to race and racism andeducating ourselves, no matter
what your age or where you arein this, um, in this journey.
So thank you all for tuning inand for going through all these
emotions with us.
And, um, we will talk to younext time.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yes.
Stay awakened.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Thanks everyone for listening to today's episode
about patriotism.
One last correction we wanted tomake Mr.
Overton was actually 109 years,not 112 years old at the time of
filming way to go.
Mr.
Overton still equallyimpressive.
And finally just wanted to leaveyou all with the idea that
patriotism should mean the samefor all of us.
(27:56):
If you're serving our country,you're putting your lives on the
line and we appreciate you.
And we thank you.
So stay safe and stay healthy.
Thank you for listening toawakened in America.
If you enjoy today's podcast, besure to subscribe and leave a
review.
You can also find us onInstagram at awakened in
(28:18):
America.
That's awakened underscore inunderscore America and remember
be mindful, be grateful.
And most of all be you.
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