August 11, 2020 • 19 mins
Hosts Z and Jess discuss the relationship between funding and education quality based on first-hand experiences.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning.
Good morning, Z.
How are you?
I'm fantastic.
How about you?
I'm doing well.
We're excited to have ourlisteners here with us today.
It's episode two part oneeducation as indoctrination.
We hope you enjoy.
You're listening to awaken inAmerica, two minds on a journey
(00:22):
to create dialogue aboutdiversity inclusion,
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Optimism.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Try to make it a little more conversational
today.
Cause like we talked about, weput a lot of time and effort
into these prep calls anddiscussing what we're going to
discuss.
And then sometimes we make ourbest points over text or in the
free call.
So I guess maybe we'll startwith the first thing, which was
(00:54):
kind of like some firsthandexperiences we had in our
upbringings.
That sounds good.
So, um, as a youngster, uh, asfar as education for me, I was
actually bused out of mydistrict.
So I grew up in a predominantlyactually I would say middle
(01:15):
class black neighborhood inQueens, New York.
And a lot of celebritiesactually lived in that community
like Langston Hughes and um, uh,several others, a lot of jazz
musicians.
And um, so anyway, so I was, Iwas used to being around
(01:40):
actually blacks and Hispanicspredominantly and the schools
just unfortunately weren't up topar.
So there was an opportunity tobus me to a predominantly white
school.
And this is an early eightiesagain.
So I went to predominant whiteschool for elementary defense in
(02:04):
your neighborhood go there to,or did most of the most.
So maybe 10 of us met at a busstop and then junior high school
was also in a predominatelywhite neighborhood.
Yes.
And that intimidating for youwhen it, or did it just because
you always went to that school,did it just seem normal?
(02:28):
Well, I started off in aChristian Lutheran school.
So for first and second grade,and I think that the adjustment
that I have initially was justmore being with public school
children.
I have to say honestlyinteresting.
Uh, but then I was, I was aroundother blacks in the, in the
(02:54):
Lutheran Christian school.
So I feel like it was a shock togo to the public school because
there were whites in my classand the Lutheran school too.
I didn't really notice adifference that way, except that
we were on the bus.
And then weren't, you know,there were only blacks on that
(03:15):
bus coming from that particulararea.
And so then obviously like itwas from first to sixth grade.
So you had all these studentsthat were first sixth grade and
then when you got to the school,you could see how we were like
spread out.
(03:36):
So in my class, I think when Ifirst went to that school, I was
one of three in my class.
So that, you know, all rightthen for fourth grade I was, I
think one of, two of my classesand from four to six, I was one
of two in my class.
(03:56):
So I didn't necessarily feelstrange because my best friends
who had also come from theChristian school were also in
that school.
And they were also subject tothe same things.
So we all IX, if we experiencedracism, if we experienced
whatever it was the same, Iguess our parents felt like we
(04:18):
were going to get a bettereducation in that community.
I mean, that's really what itcomes down to.
And um,
Speaker 3 (04:24):
You feel like you were welcomed in the school or
did you feel like there was adivide between the races?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
I would say that there was a divide.
I mean, you always have kidsthat accept other people, but
then there were plenty of kidswho didn't and they didn't
there.
Wasn't like, yeah, there wassome overt racism, but, um, but
anyway, I, I was in a giftedclass and I learned different
(04:55):
languages, Greek, French, youknow, and that's what I think
about when I think aboutneighborhoods where schools are
like threes and ones and foursare anything less than even a
seven.
I think about the missedopportunities.
Like I was afforded the abilityto go on class trips, to like
(05:18):
Washington DC and see themonuments and you know, and
they're not going to be affordedthose same opportunities because
of funding and the way it'strickled down, but the, the
taxes from property taxes andthat whole separate but equal,
(05:40):
that's like the whole reasonbehind the civil rights movement
is they said, yeah, we can beseparate but equal, but then
there was no equal, there was noequality because we were
separate.
But of course blacks noticedthat white schools got more
resources.
Like how would, how would onenot notice that?
(06:02):
I think it's really important tonote that even though that
changed, it really didn't changethat much because of the red
lining because of the systemicracism in communities of color.
So the wealth gap in America isdirectly linked to education,
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Which is directly linked to opportunities and
generational wealth and all ofthese things that are systemic
that we're dealing with kind offront and center right now.
And, you know, you can eventrace it back again.
I do not pretend to be any sortof expert on any of this, but
(06:43):
I'm learning as I go.
And you know, one of the thingswe've mentioned at least between
the two of us, I'm not sure ifwe were recording, but how
pivotal the GI bill was inchanging where people of color
could live because it washeavily white favored.
People that came back from worldwar II were not given, you know,
(07:04):
people of color were not giventhe same opportunities for
mortgages in desirable areas.
And that really had an effect oneverything, you know, in terms
of the red lining as it's calledand where people can, uh, their
schools can drop funding, youknow, and property taxes, local,
(07:25):
locally funded, um, local fundsare 45%.
I think of how public schoolsare funded.
So if you're taking into accountabout half of a school's funding
is based on the property valueof the area around it, you can
put two and two together thatthose goals are not going to
have the same access toresources like you said.
(07:47):
And then I was actually watchingthe United shades, which I
highly recommend for anybody.
Who's looking for a show that isenough, serious enough to
educate you, but it's not soheavy that you feel like you're
being taught something.
I think the host w Kamau belldoes an excellent job of being
(08:11):
entertaining on something thatis so heavy and dark and serious
in terms of systemic racism.
And one of the things he justwent to a school in East
Cleveland and was talking aboutthese, you know, steel towns
that have kind of had thesebooms and were once really
desirable places to live.
And then the steel industry sortof crashed in the U S things
(08:31):
went overseas.
And a lot of, you know, there'ssomething called white flight,
which, you know, basically allthe white people moved out
there.
The town is almost abandonednow.
And yeah,
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Would you say with high crime rates?
Speaker 3 (08:48):
And so the school is trying to figure out, you know,
how to, to make it, and I thinkhave like 700 students in a
school that used to be muchlarger than that.
Um, but he was saying a lot ofthe money that schools get from
the state is absorbed by inthese kind of lower income
(09:10):
areas.
They're absorbed by things likefood people, needing state aid
for, to be fed, you know, andsecurity for the school and in a
higher income area, in a moredesirable place to live those
resources aren't absorbed bythat.
So they have more freedom toinvest in these
extracurriculars.
(09:31):
And that's what you're talkingabout.
Like being able to learn Greekand being able to take these
class trips and all of thesethings.
And, um, anyway, it reminded meof where I grew up, which is in
Indiana, not too far fromChicago and the Northwest
corner.
And I actually moved there.
My family moved there when I wasthree.
So we didn't really have familythere or know anyone when we
(09:54):
moved, we moved from my dad'sjob.
And similarly, he, he was, he'san engineer and he worked in the
steel industry for his wholecareer in various aspects.
But, um, similarly, you know,there's a part of Indiana called
Gary and there are a lot ofblast furnaces there and places
(10:14):
that produce actual steel and,you know, just like East
Cleveland, once things kind ofmoved overseas, the white people
all left and seeing it now.
I mean, it's, it's verydepressing.
It's abandoned.
And the crime rate is crazy.
It was the murder capital of theworld at one point.
(10:34):
And this is somewhere that waslike maybe 20 minutes, 30
minutes drive from where I grewup.
And, um, where I grew up waspredominantly white.
I think I've mentioned thatbefore.
So growing up, it was like thisthing where I knew I wasn't
supposed to go to Gary, youknow, when I had a driver's
license and stuff like that.
But even before then, you know,you heard about, Oh, there's a
(10:56):
lot of crime and you know, youdon't want to go to Gary and
stuff like that, but it neverreally occurred to me why that
had happened, that we livedsomewhere so close to some,
somewhere that was so dangerous,you know?
And, um, once I got into highschool and started playing
sports, it became kind of moreof a, a topic, I guess, because
(11:17):
we would play sports with teamsfrom those schools in Gary.
And usually they would come tous because if we had the games
in, in Gary, no one would showup.
You know, people were afraid tobus, you know, kids from other
schools into Gary and theparents were afraid to go there
to support the teams.
(11:38):
So, um, they would usually cometo our school and I play
volleyball and tennis.
And a lot of the time theywouldn't even have enough people
to play.
It would be kind of like a lastminute decision, whether we
could even have a game becausethey might not have six girls to
comprise the team, you know?
And, um, and again, I don't, Iknow I didn't have the
(12:03):
appropriate amount of empathyfor the situation at the time.
And it's so strange to me nowbecause nobody was kind of
explaining how unfortunate thesituation was, you know, in my
all white school with my allwhite teachers and my all white
coaches and everybody was justlike, Oh yeah, you know, that's,
(12:26):
that's a shame or like that'stoo bad.
Um, but when I think about itnow, and especially when I think
about my kids and, you know, theway that I want to teach them, I
feel like it's so important thatthey understand the situation,
you know?
And, um, I guess for me, when Ithink about those girls, they
(12:48):
must have been embarrassed, youknow, visibly, you could tell
they were embarrassed, theydidn't have the money for the
cool uniforms and the warm upshirts and you know, all of
that.
And if they could comprise ateam, it was basically
understood that it wasn't goingto be like very competitive, you
know, because maybe, I don'tknow, maybe they didn't have the
funding for coaches or, youknow, I, I honestly, I don't
(13:11):
know basketball was a differentstory because I feel like they,
they could compete withbasketball, you know?
So those, those games were notlike that.
But for me, when I think aboutlike volleyball and tennis, it
was definitely like a, you know,and, and understood thing.
So, yeah.
And, and when I think about thatnow as a parent and something,
you and I talked about you, yousaid, you might ask me today,
(13:34):
how will I do things differentlynow that I'm awakened and aware?
I think first it's acknowledgingsystemic racism.
You know, that step one is athing in the U S and you are
really blind if you don't seethat, um, how it is permeated
(13:59):
yes.
Through the country and society.
And, um, the way that as aparent, I can relate to other
parents who feel like they can'tgive their kids the same
opportunities in a publicschool.
I mean, that should not be athing in 2020, you know?
So number one, it's, it's nowimportant to me to understand
(14:23):
the racial makeup of the schoolsthat I send my kids to, because
you're not doing your kids anyfavors by sending them to an all
white school.
If you have a choice, I think itgives families.
Obviously you have to giveyourself an opportunity to be
inclusive and integrate.
You know, I know it's probablymore comfortable and I am, you
(14:46):
know, a Testament to thismyself.
It's more comfortable to staywith what you know, and people
that look like you and all ofthat.
But if you're really dedicatedto doing something with the
momentum that we have goingright now, instead of just
reading a book or buying somebooks for your kids on racism
and maybe attending a blacklives matter protest, I think
those are all great steps, butthis is, you know, like every,
(15:09):
every hashtag says, this is amovement, not a moment.
And as you pointed out, this isbasically like a modern day
civil rights thing that'shappening right now.
So if we're really going to takethis somewhere, longterm, it's a
shift in mindset and you don't,you don't go back to the way you
used to think about it.
You know?
And I think not only do I wantmy kids to go to a school that
(15:31):
has other races represented, youknow, and decently represented
going out of your comfort zoneto make sure that you're making
an effort to integrate withthose people of color in their
class, because the school yeah.
If you're, and you do have to goout of your way.
I think if you're, you know,most likely because of where I
(15:52):
live, we're going to end up at aschool where there's still going
to be the majority, you know,and, and I'm, I'm good with
that.
I don't feel like I need to doit, you know, something crazy
and radical and send them to aschool where they're, they're
the minority.
But I do feel like if you'rethinking about this, the way
(16:13):
that I am, you want to go to aschool that is integrated, and
then you want to take it a stepfurther and make sure you're
reaching out to the friends thatare of other races in that class
to make sure that they feelincluded in the play dates and
the birthday parties outside ofthe classroom.
You know, I think it's reallynot enough to have a classroom
that's comprised of alldifferent races, but then all of
(16:34):
the African Americans hangingout together and all the
Hispanic kids hang out togetherand all the white kids hang out
together.
Yeah.
So if you're going to try toreally make a difference and
break down that barrier, I thinkthere needs to be more of an
effort on, um, on the part ofthe white parents to make those
playdates happen and make surethat, uh, your kids understand
(16:55):
the importance of getting toknow their classmates outside of
the classroom and getting toknow those parents so that they
don't feel left out.
And, you know, by doing that, Ithink you're really paving the
way for them to be inclusivepeople of the world, you know?
And then when they start workeventually and started their
(17:17):
careers, they're not going tocarry that.
You know, I've got to stay withpeople that are like me
mentality.
Cause that's something that Ifeel like my friends, obviously
we're not school age.
Well, some of us are still inschool like you, but I'm doing
the doctorate thing.
I think the rest of us thataren't in school, you still have
opportunities in your workplaceto make things different too.
(17:38):
You know?
And if you're just because youhave a quote unquote diverse
company, every company wantsthat title.
But I know there are a lot ofpeople that are at these diverse
companies, people of colorminorities that do not feel
included.
So if you're, you know, ifyou're trying to do better and
(17:59):
you're trying to be a white,progressive, and your good
intention with all of this, makesure you're thinking about it as
not just something that's, youknow, trendy, and you're not
just trying to kind of likecover your butt and be like, I,
yeah, like I have a, an AfricanAmerican friend I'm not racist.
I never use the N word.
(18:20):
You know, things like that, thatdoesn't, that's not a catch all
that.
Those are expected just as abasic, that's the baseline as a
human, right?
So that doesn't make you notracist by the way.
And there's a distinction therebetween being anti-racist and
not racist, you know?
And I think the anti racistthing is something that's
(18:41):
getting a lot of press rightnow, too, but it's identifying
racism and then standing up
Speaker 1 (18:48):
And right now it's the speaking out that makes you
an antiracist because you'reactually seeking justice in the
moment, as opposed to, uh, justletting something slide for the
sake of that person's feelingsor it's uncomfortable, right.
(19:08):
It's uncomfortable for thievesor what have you, but speaking
out and doing like I was whenJohn Lewis I've been getting
into good trouble.
Thank you
Speaker 2 (19:18):
For listening to awakened in America.
If you enjoy today's podcast, besure to subscribe and leave a
review.
You can also find us onInstagram at awakened in
America.
That's awakened underscore inunderscore America and remember
be mindful, be grateful.
(19:40):
And most of all be you.
Good morning.
Good morning, Z.
How are you?
I'm fantastic.
How about you?
I'm doing well.
We're excited to have ourlisteners here with us today.
It's episode two part oneeducation as indoctrination.
We hope you enjoy.
You're listening to awaken inAmerica, two minds on a journey
(00:22):
to create dialogue aboutdiversity inclusion,
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Optimism.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Try to make it a little more conversational
today.
Cause like we talked about, weput a lot of time and effort
into these prep calls anddiscussing what we're going to
discuss.
And then sometimes we make ourbest points over text or in the
free call.
So I guess maybe we'll startwith the first thing, which was
(00:54):
kind of like some firsthandexperiences we had in our
upbringings.
That sounds good.
So, um, as a youngster, uh, asfar as education for me, I was
actually bused out of mydistrict.
So I grew up in a predominantlyactually I would say middle
(01:15):
class black neighborhood inQueens, New York.
And a lot of celebritiesactually lived in that community
like Langston Hughes and um, uh,several others, a lot of jazz
musicians.
And um, so anyway, so I was, Iwas used to being around
(01:40):
actually blacks and Hispanicspredominantly and the schools
just unfortunately weren't up topar.
So there was an opportunity tobus me to a predominantly white
school.
And this is an early eightiesagain.
So I went to predominant whiteschool for elementary defense in
(02:04):
your neighborhood go there to,or did most of the most.
So maybe 10 of us met at a busstop and then junior high school
was also in a predominatelywhite neighborhood.
Yes.
And that intimidating for youwhen it, or did it just because
you always went to that school,did it just seem normal?
(02:28):
Well, I started off in aChristian Lutheran school.
So for first and second grade,and I think that the adjustment
that I have initially was justmore being with public school
children.
I have to say honestlyinteresting.
Uh, but then I was, I was aroundother blacks in the, in the
(02:54):
Lutheran Christian school.
So I feel like it was a shock togo to the public school because
there were whites in my classand the Lutheran school too.
I didn't really notice adifference that way, except that
we were on the bus.
And then weren't, you know,there were only blacks on that
(03:15):
bus coming from that particulararea.
And so then obviously like itwas from first to sixth grade.
So you had all these studentsthat were first sixth grade and
then when you got to the school,you could see how we were like
spread out.
(03:36):
So in my class, I think when Ifirst went to that school, I was
one of three in my class.
So that, you know, all rightthen for fourth grade I was, I
think one of, two of my classesand from four to six, I was one
of two in my class.
(03:56):
So I didn't necessarily feelstrange because my best friends
who had also come from theChristian school were also in
that school.
And they were also subject tothe same things.
So we all IX, if we experiencedracism, if we experienced
whatever it was the same, Iguess our parents felt like we
(04:18):
were going to get a bettereducation in that community.
I mean, that's really what itcomes down to.
And um,
Speaker 3 (04:24):
You feel like you were welcomed in the school or
did you feel like there was adivide between the races?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
I would say that there was a divide.
I mean, you always have kidsthat accept other people, but
then there were plenty of kidswho didn't and they didn't
there.
Wasn't like, yeah, there wassome overt racism, but, um, but
anyway, I, I was in a giftedclass and I learned different
(04:55):
languages, Greek, French, youknow, and that's what I think
about when I think aboutneighborhoods where schools are
like threes and ones and foursare anything less than even a
seven.
I think about the missedopportunities.
Like I was afforded the abilityto go on class trips, to like
(05:18):
Washington DC and see themonuments and you know, and
they're not going to be affordedthose same opportunities because
of funding and the way it'strickled down, but the, the
taxes from property taxes andthat whole separate but equal,
(05:40):
that's like the whole reasonbehind the civil rights movement
is they said, yeah, we can beseparate but equal, but then
there was no equal, there was noequality because we were
separate.
But of course blacks noticedthat white schools got more
resources.
Like how would, how would onenot notice that?
(06:02):
I think it's really important tonote that even though that
changed, it really didn't changethat much because of the red
lining because of the systemicracism in communities of color.
So the wealth gap in America isdirectly linked to education,
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Which is directly linked to opportunities and
generational wealth and all ofthese things that are systemic
that we're dealing with kind offront and center right now.
And, you know, you can eventrace it back again.
I do not pretend to be any sortof expert on any of this, but
(06:43):
I'm learning as I go.
And you know, one of the thingswe've mentioned at least between
the two of us, I'm not sure ifwe were recording, but how
pivotal the GI bill was inchanging where people of color
could live because it washeavily white favored.
People that came back from worldwar II were not given, you know,
(07:04):
people of color were not giventhe same opportunities for
mortgages in desirable areas.
And that really had an effect oneverything, you know, in terms
of the red lining as it's calledand where people can, uh, their
schools can drop funding, youknow, and property taxes, local,
(07:25):
locally funded, um, local fundsare 45%.
I think of how public schoolsare funded.
So if you're taking into accountabout half of a school's funding
is based on the property valueof the area around it, you can
put two and two together thatthose goals are not going to
have the same access toresources like you said.
(07:47):
And then I was actually watchingthe United shades, which I
highly recommend for anybody.
Who's looking for a show that isenough, serious enough to
educate you, but it's not soheavy that you feel like you're
being taught something.
I think the host w Kamau belldoes an excellent job of being
(08:11):
entertaining on something thatis so heavy and dark and serious
in terms of systemic racism.
And one of the things he justwent to a school in East
Cleveland and was talking aboutthese, you know, steel towns
that have kind of had thesebooms and were once really
desirable places to live.
And then the steel industry sortof crashed in the U S things
(08:31):
went overseas.
And a lot of, you know, there'ssomething called white flight,
which, you know, basically allthe white people moved out
there.
The town is almost abandonednow.
And yeah,
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Would you say with high crime rates?
Speaker 3 (08:48):
And so the school is trying to figure out, you know,
how to, to make it, and I thinkhave like 700 students in a
school that used to be muchlarger than that.
Um, but he was saying a lot ofthe money that schools get from
the state is absorbed by inthese kind of lower income
(09:10):
areas.
They're absorbed by things likefood people, needing state aid
for, to be fed, you know, andsecurity for the school and in a
higher income area, in a moredesirable place to live those
resources aren't absorbed bythat.
So they have more freedom toinvest in these
extracurriculars.
(09:31):
And that's what you're talkingabout.
Like being able to learn Greekand being able to take these
class trips and all of thesethings.
And, um, anyway, it reminded meof where I grew up, which is in
Indiana, not too far fromChicago and the Northwest
corner.
And I actually moved there.
My family moved there when I wasthree.
So we didn't really have familythere or know anyone when we
(09:54):
moved, we moved from my dad'sjob.
And similarly, he, he was, he'san engineer and he worked in the
steel industry for his wholecareer in various aspects.
But, um, similarly, you know,there's a part of Indiana called
Gary and there are a lot ofblast furnaces there and places
(10:14):
that produce actual steel and,you know, just like East
Cleveland, once things kind ofmoved overseas, the white people
all left and seeing it now.
I mean, it's, it's verydepressing.
It's abandoned.
And the crime rate is crazy.
It was the murder capital of theworld at one point.
(10:34):
And this is somewhere that waslike maybe 20 minutes, 30
minutes drive from where I grewup.
And, um, where I grew up waspredominantly white.
I think I've mentioned thatbefore.
So growing up, it was like thisthing where I knew I wasn't
supposed to go to Gary, youknow, when I had a driver's
license and stuff like that.
But even before then, you know,you heard about, Oh, there's a
(10:56):
lot of crime and you know, youdon't want to go to Gary and
stuff like that, but it neverreally occurred to me why that
had happened, that we livedsomewhere so close to some,
somewhere that was so dangerous,you know?
And, um, once I got into highschool and started playing
sports, it became kind of moreof a, a topic, I guess, because
(11:17):
we would play sports with teamsfrom those schools in Gary.
And usually they would come tous because if we had the games
in, in Gary, no one would showup.
You know, people were afraid tobus, you know, kids from other
schools into Gary and theparents were afraid to go there
to support the teams.
(11:38):
So, um, they would usually cometo our school and I play
volleyball and tennis.
And a lot of the time theywouldn't even have enough people
to play.
It would be kind of like a lastminute decision, whether we
could even have a game becausethey might not have six girls to
comprise the team, you know?
And, um, and again, I don't, Iknow I didn't have the
(12:03):
appropriate amount of empathyfor the situation at the time.
And it's so strange to me nowbecause nobody was kind of
explaining how unfortunate thesituation was, you know, in my
all white school with my allwhite teachers and my all white
coaches and everybody was justlike, Oh yeah, you know, that's,
(12:26):
that's a shame or like that'stoo bad.
Um, but when I think about itnow, and especially when I think
about my kids and, you know, theway that I want to teach them, I
feel like it's so important thatthey understand the situation,
you know?
And, um, I guess for me, when Ithink about those girls, they
(12:48):
must have been embarrassed, youknow, visibly, you could tell
they were embarrassed, theydidn't have the money for the
cool uniforms and the warm upshirts and you know, all of
that.
And if they could comprise ateam, it was basically
understood that it wasn't goingto be like very competitive, you
know, because maybe, I don'tknow, maybe they didn't have the
funding for coaches or, youknow, I, I honestly, I don't
(13:11):
know basketball was a differentstory because I feel like they,
they could compete withbasketball, you know?
So those, those games were notlike that.
But for me, when I think aboutlike volleyball and tennis, it
was definitely like a, you know,and, and understood thing.
So, yeah.
And, and when I think about thatnow as a parent and something,
you and I talked about you, yousaid, you might ask me today,
(13:34):
how will I do things differentlynow that I'm awakened and aware?
I think first it's acknowledgingsystemic racism.
You know, that step one is athing in the U S and you are
really blind if you don't seethat, um, how it is permeated
(13:59):
yes.
Through the country and society.
And, um, the way that as aparent, I can relate to other
parents who feel like they can'tgive their kids the same
opportunities in a publicschool.
I mean, that should not be athing in 2020, you know?
So number one, it's, it's nowimportant to me to understand
(14:23):
the racial makeup of the schoolsthat I send my kids to, because
you're not doing your kids anyfavors by sending them to an all
white school.
If you have a choice, I think itgives families.
Obviously you have to giveyourself an opportunity to be
inclusive and integrate.
You know, I know it's probablymore comfortable and I am, you
(14:46):
know, a Testament to thismyself.
It's more comfortable to staywith what you know, and people
that look like you and all ofthat.
But if you're really dedicatedto doing something with the
momentum that we have goingright now, instead of just
reading a book or buying somebooks for your kids on racism
and maybe attending a blacklives matter protest, I think
those are all great steps, butthis is, you know, like every,
(15:09):
every hashtag says, this is amovement, not a moment.
And as you pointed out, this isbasically like a modern day
civil rights thing that'shappening right now.
So if we're really going to takethis somewhere, longterm, it's a
shift in mindset and you don't,you don't go back to the way you
used to think about it.
You know?
And I think not only do I wantmy kids to go to a school that
(15:31):
has other races represented, youknow, and decently represented
going out of your comfort zoneto make sure that you're making
an effort to integrate withthose people of color in their
class, because the school yeah.
If you're, and you do have to goout of your way.
I think if you're, you know,most likely because of where I
(15:52):
live, we're going to end up at aschool where there's still going
to be the majority, you know,and, and I'm, I'm good with
that.
I don't feel like I need to doit, you know, something crazy
and radical and send them to aschool where they're, they're
the minority.
But I do feel like if you'rethinking about this, the way
(16:13):
that I am, you want to go to aschool that is integrated, and
then you want to take it a stepfurther and make sure you're
reaching out to the friends thatare of other races in that class
to make sure that they feelincluded in the play dates and
the birthday parties outside ofthe classroom.
You know, I think it's reallynot enough to have a classroom
that's comprised of alldifferent races, but then all of
(16:34):
the African Americans hangingout together and all the
Hispanic kids hang out togetherand all the white kids hang out
together.
Yeah.
So if you're going to try toreally make a difference and
break down that barrier, I thinkthere needs to be more of an
effort on, um, on the part ofthe white parents to make those
playdates happen and make surethat, uh, your kids understand
(16:55):
the importance of getting toknow their classmates outside of
the classroom and getting toknow those parents so that they
don't feel left out.
And, you know, by doing that, Ithink you're really paving the
way for them to be inclusivepeople of the world, you know?
And then when they start workeventually and started their
(17:17):
careers, they're not going tocarry that.
You know, I've got to stay withpeople that are like me
mentality.
Cause that's something that Ifeel like my friends, obviously
we're not school age.
Well, some of us are still inschool like you, but I'm doing
the doctorate thing.
I think the rest of us thataren't in school, you still have
opportunities in your workplaceto make things different too.
(17:38):
You know?
And if you're just because youhave a quote unquote diverse
company, every company wantsthat title.
But I know there are a lot ofpeople that are at these diverse
companies, people of colorminorities that do not feel
included.
So if you're, you know, ifyou're trying to do better and
(17:59):
you're trying to be a white,progressive, and your good
intention with all of this, makesure you're thinking about it as
not just something that's, youknow, trendy, and you're not
just trying to kind of likecover your butt and be like, I,
yeah, like I have a, an AfricanAmerican friend I'm not racist.
I never use the N word.
(18:20):
You know, things like that, thatdoesn't, that's not a catch all
that.
Those are expected just as abasic, that's the baseline as a
human, right?
So that doesn't make you notracist by the way.
And there's a distinction therebetween being anti-racist and
not racist, you know?
And I think the anti racistthing is something that's
(18:41):
getting a lot of press rightnow, too, but it's identifying
racism and then standing up
Speaker 1 (18:48):
And right now it's the speaking out that makes you
an antiracist because you'reactually seeking justice in the
moment, as opposed to, uh, justletting something slide for the
sake of that person's feelingsor it's uncomfortable, right.
(19:08):
It's uncomfortable for thievesor what have you, but speaking
out and doing like I was whenJohn Lewis I've been getting
into good trouble.
Thank you
Speaker 2 (19:18):
For listening to awakened in America.
If you enjoy today's podcast, besure to subscribe and leave a
review.
You can also find us onInstagram at awakened in
America.
That's awakened underscore inunderscore America and remember
be mindful, be grateful.
(19:40):
And most of all be you.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.