August 19, 2020 • 17 mins
Hosts Z and Jess discuss how even areas where we would normally expect inclusion, like religion, are also lacking.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, awakened.
Thank you for joining us today.
Today's topic is a sensitiveone.
It's called religion.
And just remember these areexpressed opinions and we are
coming from our hearts and it isnot intended to offend anyone of
(00:20):
any faith.
Thanks for listening.
You're listening to awaken inAmerica, two minds on a journey
to create dialogue aboutdiversity inclusion and
optimism.
(00:42):
And today we are discussing areal life example, something we
were just having a sidebardiscussion about and Z, I just
wanted to get some feedback fromyou on a sermon you were
listening to today thatresonated.
Yeah.
So, um, you know, with thiswhole COBIT, I'm still trying to
(01:06):
, uh, stay in tune with churchand trying to, you know, start
my week off.
Right.
So I decided to listen to anonline sermon, um, of her
friend's church and I'velistened before, and it's a
predominantly white church.
I'm not going to say where it'slocated, but it's a
predominantly white church and Ihave attended a predominantly
(01:28):
white church in the past, um,actually in Arizona.
And I really liked the church.
It was not a nomination.
People were friendly.
Um, they would confuse the veryfew black people that were in
the church, but, you know, um,yeah.
Um, but you know, but peoplewere, um, you could tell that
(01:51):
they were good natured and youknow, they were, they were
trying to be good Christians.
So, um, you know, we took it, wetook it for that.
And anyway, so the sermon that Ilistened to today was similar.
I noticed when the pastor wastalking about Keith, the pastor
was talking about keys and howJesus can give us access to
(02:19):
that, which we desire, um, orthat which we've set our hearts
on, or, uh, what have you, um,because the words of the Bible
are power and when we speakcertain words, um, it can bring
certain things to life.
And, you know, some people mayinterpret this as like, kind of
(02:41):
like the karma thing or kind ofspeaking manifestations into
your life.
It's a similar principle.
And honestly, I was listeningand I was engaged and I was
learning up until a point wherethe pastor went to mentioned
something about access.
(03:03):
I can't remember exactly how hesaid it, but it immediately made
me think about a missedopportunity now, for those who,
you know, aren't in church, thismay not seem very relevant,
perhaps it isn't, but it speaksagain to the, to the general
(03:27):
undertone of what America islacking.
It's the, it's the empathytowards one another that we're
lacking.
And I ended up having a chatwith a person that was related
to a, that was a coordinator ofthe ministry as a sidebar that
(03:51):
was going on simultaneously withthe live YouTube session, uh,
sermon and my feedback causethey asked, Oh, do you have any
feedback?
My feedback was, it was a missedopportunity that when the pastor
discussed about, um, those whodon't have access or what have
(04:13):
you to have brought in othercultures,
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Real life relevant topic happening right now, make
it inclusive.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Exactly.
And, um, and then, you know,there was some back and forth on
the chat and it kind of led to,you know, uh, the white
fragility.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Right.
And our sidebar, as soon as yousaid, you know, I, I put in this
comment, this chat, and then Ithink it might've gotten
escalated.
And then the immediate responsewas basically defensive.
And then I think you were goingto tell me, they even went so
far, this person on the otherend of the chat is the same.
(04:57):
We just had a diversity sermonor something like that, which
again, I'm going to cite RobinDeAngelo's book.
But this defense mechanism thatwe have created and this, one of
the things white people tend todo.
And I will say, I am guilty ofthis as well is proximity.
(05:19):
So saying I'm not racist.
I have friends that aremultiracial or I'm not racist
because we want to believe thatabout ourselves.
So I can, you know, be honestwith myself about that as a
defense mechanism, because itkind of protects me.
It makes me feel like I don'tneed to do any more inward
introspection.
(05:40):
I don't need to educate myselfany further cause I'm not
racist.
And it kind of shuts down theconversation,
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Which is what I mentioned in our previous
episode about justdismissiveness.
So if it's going to be dismissedand to come up with some excuse
or, you know, whatever, denial,whatever it may be, then it
immediately shuts the door forcommunication.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Exactly.
And just to clarify, I'm notsaying, um, I am racist, you
know, I mean, I think Robin deAngela actually comes out and is
forthcoming with that becauseshe's white and inherently,
we're living in a society and aculture that is white
supremacist, you know, based.
(06:26):
So I'm not saying that that'snot the part I want to focus on.
The part I want to focus on isthat is in response to racism
that keeps us from as whitepeople learning about it and
being empathetic, like you said,and understanding the other side
of this systemic problem, youknow, it gives us protection
(06:48):
from that by saying that's notme, you know?
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Right.
And, and, and, and when, whenshe said that, Oh, when she
typed that, um, I got thefeeling of, okay, you're telling
me that I'm making this a racialthing and I wasn't approaching
(07:14):
it from a racial perspective.
I may have used the word blackin there, but what I was trying
to do, and I did end up chattingthat there were a universal
truths and why it escalated isbecause I said plantation owners
would go to church on Sunday.
(07:36):
And then on Monday they wouldrape murder and lynched people.
And I put that in there becauseit's to say that it's not okay
to go to church on Sunday and doyour whole there, then that
house.
And then on Monday, snuff outthe life of your brother, air a
(08:05):
home, a safe place to live air.
The whole, I can't breathe.
It wasn't just that GeorgeFloyd's life was snuffed out.
It was that every black Americancould picture their own life
(08:27):
being snuffed out under theweight of this constant
oppression.
Basically, this is why churchesare still segregated.
I think you're right.
That's what I said.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
And that's actually something I want to learn more
about myself too, is religion.
And the part that it plays inAmerican society in this, you
know, systemic racism.
Um, but yeah, yeah, the onlything I could respond is we,
(09:06):
white people, even whiteprogressives have so little
understanding of the root ofthose feelings.
Um, it's unacceptable, you know,abominable.
It was so formative to where weare now, you know, the way
people were treated, even thoughit was in the 18 hundreds or 14,
(09:27):
I mean way before the 18hundreds.
But when I see you having thepain, the level of pain that you
still have today about that,it's a reminder to me of how
shielded I have been from, youknow, the country's history and
the difference in, you know, mywhiteness.
(09:48):
And honestly, at times it getsme so down that I just want to
like walk away from theconversation and like bury my
head because it is so shamefuland hurtful for me to have to be
associated with that, you know,which is like some of the first
(10:08):
feelings that I had when you andI discussed starting this
podcast and all that, there'snothing that we can relate to.
So what are we supposed to say?
You know, I've seen theseheadlines, you know, people
washing African-Americans feetand saying, they're sorry, and I
am constantly having thisinternal dialogue.
(10:32):
How can we make it, make itokay.
It's never going to be made,right.
But how can we make it so thatmy friend, you understand, you
know, my empathy for thesituation, how can I show you
that, you know, I know it's notgoing to happen overnight.
And it comes with a lot of hardwork and I'm willing to do the
(10:55):
work.
I just don't know how to showyou how sorry I am and you know,
how badly I really want thingsto be better.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Well, I think, I think that, you know,
unfortunately it's not going tohappen, but you know, if, if we
could get more people like youto kind of come to the consensus
and just the acknowledgement,it's just, I think the hardest
part is there is a huge economicdivide and no amount of black
(11:33):
sports players or artists orproducers or actors and
actresses or musicians, noamount of blacks that you give
money in that way will everrepay all that was lost back
then.
Oh, that was lost.
(11:56):
Um, but if we could just havesome laws, even that acknowledge
that there was injustice andthat something needs to be done,
like with the statues.
Yes.
It's time for those statues tocome down, just like the
Confederate flags,
Speaker 2 (12:15):
The school named after Robert Eley, the final age
has changed.
Thank God.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
It's like, we're just, why is our country not
crying out for these things tobe done?
It's not just for us.
It's it's so that there can bean awakening amongst everyone to
say, let's honor, all theimmigrants let's honor all the
(12:41):
people who have come to thiscountry and helped make America.
Great.
Great.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And I think the answer to that is because it
comes with, um, accountabilityand acknowledging the dark
history and,
Speaker 1 (12:58):
And now you will no longer be able to profit from it
just because it admitting it,then you have to admit that
you've profited from it.
Yes.
And that you are continuing toprofit from it.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
And that's why I think Robin Dangelo specifically
says she profits from beingwhite and that's the way that
our society is kind of built.
So as long as she's partaking inthat, you can say that, you
know, I don't know how you stopthat because we're born a
(13:36):
certain color, you know?
Um, but yeah, I think to end iton like an optimistic note,
cause I know, I think whatyou're saying is changing, you
know, the statues and the thingslike that.
Those are positive changes.
We don't have to take it down tothis like negative place, just
acknowledge everybody, you know,make it inclusive.
(13:59):
And I think having this podcastis a step towards being
inclusive within our ownfamilies and friends circles,
and being able to haveconversations like the ones you
and I are having and givingpeople some ideas of things to
talk about with their friendsand family, because I've
actually realized among my ownfamily that we don't really
(14:23):
discuss a lot of racial,racially charged issues.
You know, of course we see aheadline, there's a story,
social and, you know, racialinjustice, something that
everybody's seeing.
And we talk about how sad it is,but only since we've started
this podcast, have I been ableto kind of articulate my
thoughts and feelings morespecifically about the topic and
(14:46):
the response has been soencouraging?
You know, I mean, just a quickshout out to my, I think I told
you he was so excited about thepodcast and specifically tying
it back to Obama saying, he'sthe one that's going to be able
to make things better for this,you know, COVID George Floyd,
(15:09):
Trump period that we're in, he'sthe one that's going to be able
to make things better, eventhough he can't get reelected.
You know, again, that's whatit's going to take someone, you
know, he's the only guy for thejob basically.
So I hope that he's right.
And I'm excited to hear my dadspeaking like that.
And I'm excited to have thoseconversations with them because
(15:30):
it brings us closer to our ownfamily to have those
discussions, because it'ssomething that probably, you
know, if we weren't doing thispodcast, I might not have had an
opportunity to have that sort ofopen dialogue with him, you
know?
And I hope, you know, to end iton an optimistic note, like I
was saying, I hope it inspiresother people and white people
(15:51):
like myself who don't knowexactly what they can do to make
a difference or how they canmake things better.
Start small, just have aconversation with your family,
you know, about your feelings onthis.
Cause if you're like me, youhaven't really had a lot of
reasons to have thosediscussions until now because we
are the majority, you know, andit's not our people per se that
(16:13):
are being oppressed.
So if you're going to church, ifyou believe in, um, God, and in
all of those things and youspend time going to church, like
take it up a notch and talkabout what's going on right now
and how it's affecting humanityand you know, the racial divide
(16:34):
in this country and see kind ofwhere it takes you.
Yeah.
Cause we can, all we can all inour small circles do better.
Yup.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Well, awakens that does it for us today.
That was episode five religion.
We hope that you learnedsomething and will apply truth
to every area of your life.
Thanks for listening.
Thank you for listening toawakened in America.
If you enjoy today's podcast, besure to subscribe and leave a
(17:06):
review.
You can also find us onInstagram at awakened in
America.
That's awakened underscore inunderscore America and remember
be mindful, be grateful.
And most of all be you.
Hello, awakened.
Thank you for joining us today.
Today's topic is a sensitiveone.
It's called religion.
And just remember these areexpressed opinions and we are
coming from our hearts and it isnot intended to offend anyone of
(00:20):
any faith.
Thanks for listening.
You're listening to awaken inAmerica, two minds on a journey
to create dialogue aboutdiversity inclusion and
optimism.
(00:42):
And today we are discussing areal life example, something we
were just having a sidebardiscussion about and Z, I just
wanted to get some feedback fromyou on a sermon you were
listening to today thatresonated.
Yeah.
So, um, you know, with thiswhole COBIT, I'm still trying to
(01:06):
, uh, stay in tune with churchand trying to, you know, start
my week off.
Right.
So I decided to listen to anonline sermon, um, of her
friend's church and I'velistened before, and it's a
predominantly white church.
I'm not going to say where it'slocated, but it's a
predominantly white church and Ihave attended a predominantly
(01:28):
white church in the past, um,actually in Arizona.
And I really liked the church.
It was not a nomination.
People were friendly.
Um, they would confuse the veryfew black people that were in
the church, but, you know, um,yeah.
Um, but you know, but peoplewere, um, you could tell that
(01:51):
they were good natured and youknow, they were, they were
trying to be good Christians.
So, um, you know, we took it, wetook it for that.
And anyway, so the sermon that Ilistened to today was similar.
I noticed when the pastor wastalking about Keith, the pastor
was talking about keys and howJesus can give us access to
(02:19):
that, which we desire, um, orthat which we've set our hearts
on, or, uh, what have you, um,because the words of the Bible
are power and when we speakcertain words, um, it can bring
certain things to life.
And, you know, some people mayinterpret this as like, kind of
(02:41):
like the karma thing or kind ofspeaking manifestations into
your life.
It's a similar principle.
And honestly, I was listeningand I was engaged and I was
learning up until a point wherethe pastor went to mentioned
something about access.
(03:03):
I can't remember exactly how hesaid it, but it immediately made
me think about a missedopportunity now, for those who,
you know, aren't in church, thismay not seem very relevant,
perhaps it isn't, but it speaksagain to the, to the general
(03:27):
undertone of what America islacking.
It's the, it's the empathytowards one another that we're
lacking.
And I ended up having a chatwith a person that was related
to a, that was a coordinator ofthe ministry as a sidebar that
(03:51):
was going on simultaneously withthe live YouTube session, uh,
sermon and my feedback causethey asked, Oh, do you have any
feedback?
My feedback was, it was a missedopportunity that when the pastor
discussed about, um, those whodon't have access or what have
(04:13):
you to have brought in othercultures,
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Real life relevant topic happening right now, make
it inclusive.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Exactly.
And, um, and then, you know,there was some back and forth on
the chat and it kind of led to,you know, uh, the white
fragility.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Right.
And our sidebar, as soon as yousaid, you know, I, I put in this
comment, this chat, and then Ithink it might've gotten
escalated.
And then the immediate responsewas basically defensive.
And then I think you were goingto tell me, they even went so
far, this person on the otherend of the chat is the same.
(04:57):
We just had a diversity sermonor something like that, which
again, I'm going to cite RobinDeAngelo's book.
But this defense mechanism thatwe have created and this, one of
the things white people tend todo.
And I will say, I am guilty ofthis as well is proximity.
(05:19):
So saying I'm not racist.
I have friends that aremultiracial or I'm not racist
because we want to believe thatabout ourselves.
So I can, you know, be honestwith myself about that as a
defense mechanism, because itkind of protects me.
It makes me feel like I don'tneed to do any more inward
introspection.
(05:40):
I don't need to educate myselfany further cause I'm not
racist.
And it kind of shuts down theconversation,
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Which is what I mentioned in our previous
episode about justdismissiveness.
So if it's going to be dismissedand to come up with some excuse
or, you know, whatever, denial,whatever it may be, then it
immediately shuts the door forcommunication.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Exactly.
And just to clarify, I'm notsaying, um, I am racist, you
know, I mean, I think Robin deAngela actually comes out and is
forthcoming with that becauseshe's white and inherently,
we're living in a society and aculture that is white
supremacist, you know, based.
(06:26):
So I'm not saying that that'snot the part I want to focus on.
The part I want to focus on isthat is in response to racism
that keeps us from as whitepeople learning about it and
being empathetic, like you said,and understanding the other side
of this systemic problem, youknow, it gives us protection
(06:48):
from that by saying that's notme, you know?
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Right.
And, and, and, and when, whenshe said that, Oh, when she
typed that, um, I got thefeeling of, okay, you're telling
me that I'm making this a racialthing and I wasn't approaching
(07:14):
it from a racial perspective.
I may have used the word blackin there, but what I was trying
to do, and I did end up chattingthat there were a universal
truths and why it escalated isbecause I said plantation owners
would go to church on Sunday.
(07:36):
And then on Monday they wouldrape murder and lynched people.
And I put that in there becauseit's to say that it's not okay
to go to church on Sunday and doyour whole there, then that
house.
And then on Monday, snuff outthe life of your brother, air a
(08:05):
home, a safe place to live air.
The whole, I can't breathe.
It wasn't just that GeorgeFloyd's life was snuffed out.
It was that every black Americancould picture their own life
(08:27):
being snuffed out under theweight of this constant
oppression.
Basically, this is why churchesare still segregated.
I think you're right.
That's what I said.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
And that's actually something I want to learn more
about myself too, is religion.
And the part that it plays inAmerican society in this, you
know, systemic racism.
Um, but yeah, yeah, the onlything I could respond is we,
(09:06):
white people, even whiteprogressives have so little
understanding of the root ofthose feelings.
Um, it's unacceptable, you know,abominable.
It was so formative to where weare now, you know, the way
people were treated, even thoughit was in the 18 hundreds or 14,
(09:27):
I mean way before the 18hundreds.
But when I see you having thepain, the level of pain that you
still have today about that,it's a reminder to me of how
shielded I have been from, youknow, the country's history and
the difference in, you know, mywhiteness.
(09:48):
And honestly, at times it getsme so down that I just want to
like walk away from theconversation and like bury my
head because it is so shamefuland hurtful for me to have to be
associated with that, you know,which is like some of the first
(10:08):
feelings that I had when you andI discussed starting this
podcast and all that, there'snothing that we can relate to.
So what are we supposed to say?
You know, I've seen theseheadlines, you know, people
washing African-Americans feetand saying, they're sorry, and I
am constantly having thisinternal dialogue.
(10:32):
How can we make it, make itokay.
It's never going to be made,right.
But how can we make it so thatmy friend, you understand, you
know, my empathy for thesituation, how can I show you
that, you know, I know it's notgoing to happen overnight.
And it comes with a lot of hardwork and I'm willing to do the
(10:55):
work.
I just don't know how to showyou how sorry I am and you know,
how badly I really want thingsto be better.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Well, I think, I think that, you know,
unfortunately it's not going tohappen, but you know, if, if we
could get more people like youto kind of come to the consensus
and just the acknowledgement,it's just, I think the hardest
part is there is a huge economicdivide and no amount of black
(11:33):
sports players or artists orproducers or actors and
actresses or musicians, noamount of blacks that you give
money in that way will everrepay all that was lost back
then.
Oh, that was lost.
(11:56):
Um, but if we could just havesome laws, even that acknowledge
that there was injustice andthat something needs to be done,
like with the statues.
Yes.
It's time for those statues tocome down, just like the
Confederate flags,
Speaker 2 (12:15):
The school named after Robert Eley, the final age
has changed.
Thank God.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
It's like, we're just, why is our country not
crying out for these things tobe done?
It's not just for us.
It's it's so that there can bean awakening amongst everyone to
say, let's honor, all theimmigrants let's honor all the
(12:41):
people who have come to thiscountry and helped make America.
Great.
Great.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And I think the answer to that is because it
comes with, um, accountabilityand acknowledging the dark
history and,
Speaker 1 (12:58):
And now you will no longer be able to profit from it
just because it admitting it,then you have to admit that
you've profited from it.
Yes.
And that you are continuing toprofit from it.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
And that's why I think Robin Dangelo specifically
says she profits from beingwhite and that's the way that
our society is kind of built.
So as long as she's partaking inthat, you can say that, you
know, I don't know how you stopthat because we're born a
(13:36):
certain color, you know?
Um, but yeah, I think to end iton like an optimistic note,
cause I know, I think whatyou're saying is changing, you
know, the statues and the thingslike that.
Those are positive changes.
We don't have to take it down tothis like negative place, just
acknowledge everybody, you know,make it inclusive.
(13:59):
And I think having this podcastis a step towards being
inclusive within our ownfamilies and friends circles,
and being able to haveconversations like the ones you
and I are having and givingpeople some ideas of things to
talk about with their friendsand family, because I've
actually realized among my ownfamily that we don't really
(14:23):
discuss a lot of racial,racially charged issues.
You know, of course we see aheadline, there's a story,
social and, you know, racialinjustice, something that
everybody's seeing.
And we talk about how sad it is,but only since we've started
this podcast, have I been ableto kind of articulate my
thoughts and feelings morespecifically about the topic and
(14:46):
the response has been soencouraging?
You know, I mean, just a quickshout out to my, I think I told
you he was so excited about thepodcast and specifically tying
it back to Obama saying, he'sthe one that's going to be able
to make things better for this,you know, COVID George Floyd,
(15:09):
Trump period that we're in, he'sthe one that's going to be able
to make things better, eventhough he can't get reelected.
You know, again, that's whatit's going to take someone, you
know, he's the only guy for thejob basically.
So I hope that he's right.
And I'm excited to hear my dadspeaking like that.
And I'm excited to have thoseconversations with them because
(15:30):
it brings us closer to our ownfamily to have those
discussions, because it'ssomething that probably, you
know, if we weren't doing thispodcast, I might not have had an
opportunity to have that sort ofopen dialogue with him, you
know?
And I hope, you know, to end iton an optimistic note, like I
was saying, I hope it inspiresother people and white people
(15:51):
like myself who don't knowexactly what they can do to make
a difference or how they canmake things better.
Start small, just have aconversation with your family,
you know, about your feelings onthis.
Cause if you're like me, youhaven't really had a lot of
reasons to have thosediscussions until now because we
are the majority, you know, andit's not our people per se that
(16:13):
are being oppressed.
So if you're going to church, ifyou believe in, um, God, and in
all of those things and youspend time going to church, like
take it up a notch and talkabout what's going on right now
and how it's affecting humanityand you know, the racial divide
(16:34):
in this country and see kind ofwhere it takes you.
Yeah.
Cause we can, all we can all inour small circles do better.
Yup.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Well, awakens that does it for us today.
That was episode five religion.
We hope that you learnedsomething and will apply truth
to every area of your life.
Thanks for listening.
Thank you for listening toawakened in America.
If you enjoy today's podcast, besure to subscribe and leave a
(17:06):
review.
You can also find us onInstagram at awakened in
America.
That's awakened underscore inunderscore America and remember
be mindful, be grateful.
And most of all be you.
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