S2 Ep #1: Celebrating History

Host Z and Host Jess chat with Claudia Walker,  the owner of The Black Toy Store and recently published author of "ABC's of HBCU's", regarding her innovative business ventures that are elevating Black History. This episode celebrates American history, and specifically highlights Black History Month. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to awaken in America, two minds on
a journey to create dialogueabout diversity, inclusion and
optimism.
Welcome

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Back to awakened in America.
We hope everybody's doing welland enjoying the new year.
So far today's episode is calledcelebrating history.
And we are specifically makingthis episode about black history
month and acknowledging thatquote, black history while
having its own significanceshould be valued as a part of

(00:38):
history, which cannot beseparated from American history.
I actually read an article.
I was just telling the ladiesthat I saw published by the
Atlantic in January.
And the title is black historymonth and schools retire or
reboot.
So that headline caught myattention, but it said now when
it's 40th year questions remainabout the value of commemorating
it in classrooms.

(00:59):
So basically just wanted to callout a few of the points.
I read a little bit of historyhere.
The seed of what is now known asblack history month was planted
in the doctoral thesis of a mannamed Carter G Woodson.
He is a noted scholar author,and co-founder of the attention
for the study of Negro life andhistory.
He was the son of former slavesand he received a PhD in 1912

(01:21):
from Harvard, where he studiedunder renowned historians who
minimize the importance andvitality of black history that
led him to in 1926, he createdand declared the second week of
February Negro history week.
And in his words, if a race hasno history, if it has no
worthwhile tradition, it becomesa negligible factor in the
thought of the world.

(01:42):
And it stands in danger of beingexterminated, which I thought
was really profound for ourlisteners that, you know, maybe
like myself previous to recentevents and recent years, haven't
known a lot about the foundationof black history month that, you
know, really, I think speaks tothe importance of it and why
it's so important in our schoolcurriculum and, and elsewhere in

(02:05):
the world.
So first celebrated in 1976,black history month was the
result of a growing racial prideand consciousness of black
Americans.
And what seems associationpushing to expand the weekly
celebration, a driving forcebehind what's in setting aside
time to study and reflect onblack culture was this
frustration that children blackand non-black students were
deprived of learning in Americanschools about black

(02:25):
achievements.
Yet according to the NAACP, eventhe creator hoped the time would
come when a black history weekwas unnecessary.
So I had to read that again whenI was reading the article and
his idea on that was that he wasoptimistic than America quote
would willingly recognize thecontributions of black Americans
as a legitimate and integralpart of the history of this
country, which kind of brings meto today and recent events in

(02:48):
Utah.
I don't know if everybody hasseen that same headline that Z
and I have been talking aboutthis week, but there was a
private school in Utah that wasgiving a waiver for certain
students to be exempt fromlearning black history, also
known as American history.
And that was kind of anindicator to us that this
episode, you know, had kind of adeeper importance in light of

(03:09):
this recent events.
Just wanted to mention for therecord that they rescinded the
waiver after a conversation withthe local NAACP chapter.
So one last kind of closingthought on that comes from a man
quoted in this article.
He's a fourth grade Englishlanguage arts teacher in
Maryland.
And he was saying he would liketo see black history taught
every day in his view, the onlylegitimate way to build racial

(03:31):
and cultural understanding andreflecting the spirit of
Woodson's word and intentionsquote, black history should be
celebrated every day because allhistory begins with black
history when black history isnot taught throughout the year,
it is reinforcinganti-blackness, which I also
thought was profound.
All right.
So that was kind of a longintro, but like I said, clearly

(03:52):
there are parts of the countryand people who maybe don't have
the same standing of the valueof what it means to be American.
And so I wanted to spend sometime on that.
So without further ado, we arethrilled to have with us today,
Claudia Walker, she's a verybusy business woman.
She's an educator administrator,mother of three owner of the

(04:12):
black toy store.
And most recently a publishedoffer she's based in Oakland, in
addition to being an author andall the other things I
mentioned, she also does publicspeaking.
She founded the black toy storein 2019, and the website has
been featured in the New Yorktimes, essence and Vogue.
She's deeply committed toshowcasing and celebrating
stories that mainstream outletstend to overlook.

(04:34):
So she launched HB CU prepschool, which is a publishing
company that centers blackvoices and black joy and
children's books.
And her debut book is called theABC's of HBCUs and is inspired
by her undergraduate experiencesat Spelman college.
We're so excited to speak withher today.
She's a thought leaderobviously, and overall just an

(04:55):
inspirational woman and she'sleading conversations about race
and the importance ofAfrican-American history in her
own ways.
And through her own creativebusiness enters, thank you,
Claudia, for joining us today,I'm excited to be here.
Zane, do you want to say hi tothe listeners before we kick
things off

Speaker 3 (05:11):
Listeners, we hope that you enjoy this episode and
that you learned something aboutnot just black history, but
American history.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
All right.
So HBCUs, so this is somethingI've seen on the news.
You know, obviously raising theimportance and the place and the
role that it holds within ourcountry and our, and our culture
here as Americans.
So, you know, again, superexcited to have somebody like
yourself who is not only analumni, but also just kind of
taking it upon herself throughher business ventures, to expand

(05:42):
the world's understanding andkind of appreciation for this,
this very special place.
So I read something when I wascompiling information for your
bio and you wrote where you wantSpellman is in close proximity
to four other HBCUs it's in theAtlanta area.
And you took classes atMorehouse college, Clark Atlanta
university and Morris Browncollege.

(06:04):
And you wrote, I went tofootball games, homecoming
parades, coronations concerts,speaker series, and step shows.
But most importantly, I learnedto truly love myself because for
four years I was surrounded by acommunity that uplifted affirm
to and embraced me and myculture in ways that my
predominantly white elementary,middle and high schools never
could.
So thanks Claudia for being withus today.

(06:24):
I don't know if you want to kindof comment on that too, to start
off and then we'll kick off somequestions for you.
Sure.

Speaker 4 (06:32):
I grew up here in Oakland and my parents are
educators, so they reallyinstilled a deep appreciation
for education.
And so when I was growing up, Iwent to all predominantly white
schools.
I had a great experience, greatfriends, but oftentimes people
think that when you go to anHBCU, when you're a black

(06:54):
student, that you're, you're notoutside of your comfort zone.
And I think that that is thecase for some people, but for
me, having attendedpredominantly white schools, it
was not the norm.
And it was a place where I neverhad to justify my existence.
I didn't have to explain some ofthe just basic experiences of

(07:17):
being a black girl, becoming ablack woman in society.
And so it was a reallytransformative experience for me
because I had never attended apredominantly black institution.
And it was a place where I wasable to be educated about the
world, but also about myself andmy culture.
And so that was a new experiencefor me.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
And I know I'm in one of your publications, you wrote
about being inspired by it's adifferent world.
And that was a show I actuallywatched growing up.
I was telling Z when I wasreading about you, I was like,
Oh my God, that brought me rightback to it.
Must've been, I dunno, I thinkit was like pre-teen or
something, but I remember justbeing so drawn to the closeness
and the comradery that you couldsee on TV, you know, and here I

(08:04):
was in a predominantly whitetown going to predominantly
white schools, you know, it wasnot college age, but it came
through on the screen that itwas just a very special
nurturing environment, you know,which is probably why I liked
watching it so much.
I think I raised some eyebrowswith my mom.
She was like, you want to watchit's different.
Well, okay.
Yeah.
But, um, so we'll, we'll kind ofgoing with some questions here.

(08:26):
So the first one I have for you,one of the many hats you wear as
educator, and did that influenceyour decision to write the book,
which again is called AVCs ofHBCU?

Speaker 4 (08:37):
Yes.
So I have taught pretty muchevery grade level or worked with
every grade level except forelementary school.
So when I first became aneducator, I was working, uh, in
middle school as a middle schoolteacher taught all of those
grades.
And then I'm now working at thehigh school level, I guess by
default, I can say that I nowwork or have had experience as

(09:00):
an elementary school teachers,as all of our kids are at home.
And in some capacity, you know,we're homeschooling little
people, but as a mom and as aneducator, the whole purpose,
right?
Whether you are a kindergartenteacher or whether you are a
12th grade teacher, is toprepare your students to be
ready for, to contribute tosociety, right.

(09:23):
Or what they're going to do oncethey graduate.
And it doesn't mean that collegeis always in the cards.
I definitely am an advocate forgetting a degree after high
school, predominantly forstudents of color.
I think that, you know, nowbecause of the age of the
internet, and there's so manypeople who are able to start at
businesses and maybe bypasscollege, or, you know, now we've

(09:47):
got these games thatmillionaires, right?
So we have a lot of students andyoung people who are thinking,
well, I can just, you know, Ican start a YouTube channel or I
can invest in they'll.
All of those things are viableoptions.
But I think particularly for,for students of children of
color, it is important to have acollege experience.
Just, you know, if not for thenetworking in and of itself,

(10:11):
just to have something to say,you're going to deny me a
position.
You can't say it's because Ididn't go to college or get
higher degrees.
So education has always beenimportant to me and because of
my experiences at Spelman,because my mom also attended an
HBCU Savannah state.

(10:31):
And she is definitely one of themain reasons why I chose to
attend.
And also, as you said, becauseof a different world, which
really, you know, came into myhome Thursday evenings and made
me see education in a differentway.
I think in addition to it justbeing an HBCU, I think children

(10:53):
all over the world at somepoint, get to a place where
they're kind of over school,right?
It's like, I've figured thisout.
This is boring.
I don't want to do this.
And now as a high schoolteacher, when I talk to students
about college, they often thinkif it's another four years of
what I just had to go through.

(11:14):
No thank you.
I don't want to be signed up forthat.
And so different world, like yousaid, really was, was it
transcended that just education?
And it was really aboutcomradery and a community and
family and history andtradition.
And so those experiences, my ownpersonal, my mom's and what I

(11:37):
saw on a different world reallyinspired me to attend an HBCU.
And as a teacher and parent, Iwanted in some way to be able to
share my experiences and theexperiences of others who have
attended HPC use in a book sothat children

Speaker 2 (11:54):
Would be able to know a little something about schools
that they may not otherwise knowabout.
That's a beautiful way toexplain it.
And the, like I said, it's, it'ssuch a compelling place, you
know, it's so interesting.
I'm so glad that you were ableto have that experience in
college.
And you know, I'm really gladthat HPC is, are, are here in

(12:16):
the U S and Z kind of pointedout the history of HBCU is,
might not be quite as positive.
You know, it might bereminiscent of the days of
segregation and things likethat, which is important to
note.
And that was an important part,you know, as I was educating
myself to, to remember that, butto find the positivity, which
you were so eloquently doing, Ithink it's tying in education,

(12:40):
you know, which we know is soimportant for elevating and
normalizing these conversationsabout race and to, to have a
place like HBCU, which is kindof giving that accurate
depiction of American historyspecifically to the people who
were victimized the most by itis really important, you know,
to understand.

(13:01):
And when we're talking aboutschools that are kind of giving
the option to celebrate blackhistory month, that's for me,
why is terribly upsetting?
Because there shouldn't be adelineation between American
history and black history, butthere is Carter Woodson was
saying until that time, whenthere is no delineation and we
can acknowledge and educate, youknow, our students on everything

(13:23):
that has, has happened in ourcountry's history.
I think it's important that we,that we celebrate black history
month.
So, so speaking for myself andthose who I like to refer to as
allies, my white allies, solittle has been known about what
an HBCU is outside of KamalaHarris, graduating from Howard
university.
I think everybody knows thatnow, which is awesome.

(13:44):
Can you describe what you kindof already did this, but maybe
if there's something you want tospeak to specifically and Z

Speaker 3 (13:51):
I'll actually add something as a fellow member of
an H VCU, uh, Clark Atlantauniversity can find a way or
make one, right.
It does.
Right.
That was it.
Find a way or make one and youknow, to this day, honestly, I
always think about if the doorisn't open, come in through the
window.
I mean, like, you know, if youhave a hurdle, if you have an

(14:14):
obstacle, don't just tellyourself, well, this is in my
way.
And so therefore I can't goaround it, like find another
way, you know, there's alwaysanother way to do something.
So it's about brainstorming ornetworking with peers and
figuring out a way to dosomething differently, a way to
do something meaningful, justlike Claudia did with creating

(14:37):
this great book.
I didn't learn about H VCU untilI was in high school.
And I've spoken to, you know,other friends who have said
similarly, like if it wasn't fora quote unquote black college
tour or something that, that wewouldn't have been exposed even
ourselves to necessarily goingthrough to a black university, a

(14:58):
predominantly black university.
And it's not because therearen't family members who have
actually been some, because Ihave family members that have
been to like Howard, uh,specifically, how would the
university where Kamala Harrishas been and graduated from, but
it's just that it's notsomething that's mainstream.
And so it's not always forefrontof mine, I think.

(15:20):
And I had to actually give someadvice not to long ago, to some
friends of ours.
They were considering where tosend their daughter in.
There's, you know, he's a doctorand the mother, she like does
different genetic in HR andinsurance.
And they were just like, whereshould we send her?
Or, you know, Z, we know thatyou've been to an H VCU.

(15:42):
She really is kind ofcontemplating it.
Is that a good idea?
And you know, it was reallybased on the premise of how is
white America going to perceiveher when she's done.
They know that their daughter iscapable.
The daughter knows that she'scapable, but because she's,
African-American like theydidn't want her to have this

(16:03):
stigma of, Oh, you went to atraditionally bad college.
So therefore you didn't get anadequate education or you got
less than or something.
And it's really, you know, it'sreally about a lack of
education.
Like, and I feel like that'swhat we, we're trying to
accomplish today with lettingour listeners know and be aware
of the fact thatAfrican-Americans, don't go to

(16:26):
HBCU because we want to skate bywe're going there because we
realize that is someplace wherewe can grow and get fed and get
nurtured and have an experiencethat's unlike any other
experience we may ever have inour lives, which is being around
people that look like us, thataccept us.

(16:47):
We don't have to make excusesfor our hair being a certain way
or dressing a certain way orthinking a certain way.
We don't have to personallyexplain ourselves as being in
that type of environment of justacceptance that we don't
experience on a day-to-daybasis, the 95% of our lives.

(17:09):
And so for that small percentageof our lives, it's like we
finally get to feel maybe whatit feels like to have white
privilege, which is youraccepted just generally
speaking.
And so now we get accepted,generally speaking amongst our
own.
Still when we step foot offcampus, we have to deal with

(17:29):
whatever.
But for some moment in time, weget to feel like a normal
person, just everyday normalperson, not having to, you know,
like I said, explain ourselvesor pretend to be something that
we're not to fit in or any ofthat, any of the, that we have

(17:49):
to play to survive in a whiteAmerica.
That's to me, why use are soimportant?
I'm proud to say that I attendedthe HBCU and anyone that has
attended one should be proud toplant that flag.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
I really feel that pride.
And I'm a little envious of it.
You know, I have to be honest,just hearing you guys speak
about it.
I mean, it's, you can tell it'sjust, it was a very special
place, special experience, youknow, and I loved my college
years too, but I'm just thinkingabout it.
I read something, you know, whenI was prepping for this.
So it was talking about, can youimagine being, African-American

(18:25):
going to a non HBCU where youhave one building that everybody
that's a person of color livesin.
You have one bar that all thepeople of color go to your
college experience is completelydifferent.
It's really valuable insight tohear that I wanted to ask you
Katia, in terms of thetransition for you, what was
that kind of like when you wentfrom, you mentioned like a

(18:46):
predominantly white school to anHBCU, like Spellman, was it hard
at first or did you like kindof, what were your first
thoughts?

Speaker 4 (18:54):
It, wasn't hard.
I think that most people, Ican't speak for most black
people, but I think that manypeople who have my experience of
growing up black in America andliving in like I'm from
California, right?
So California is very liberaland I always grew up with this

(19:16):
duality.
So I went to very elite privateschools from birth.
And so that was a norm for me.
I didn't really think that itwas that it was strange or that
it was different.
It wasn't like I was bustingfrom, you know, my parents were
educated as well.

(19:37):
So we lived in a middle classcommunity, but my parents worked
in public schools.
So during the summer they wouldtake me to their schools and
they would enroll me in thepublic schools, which were
predominantly black.
And then my parents did a goodjob of making sure that I had
balance.
So I kind of in mimicking thelife that my parents created for

(20:02):
me.
So my children also attendpredominantly white schools.
And I have recognized that it'svery important to provide
balance because when you have achild who attends any child who
attends a school, where they arenot part of the majority is very
easy to start to question yourown identity and your own worth.

(20:26):
And so my parents did a greatjob of finding balance.
So whether that was bringing meto their jobs and having me
attend summer school, where itwas a completely different
racial and socioeconomic makeup,whether it was our church life
on Sundays or theextracurricular activities that

(20:47):
I was involved in, those werepredominantly black.
And so I felt like I wasconstantly straddling these
different worlds.
And I, as a kid, you're alwaystrying to figure out where you
fit in.
So I would say when I attendedSpelman, it wasn't a culture
shock.
It wasn't like I'd never beenaround black people.

(21:08):
I knew what I was getting into.
I think the thing that was, Iguess, the most challenging, and
it's funny to say this, but itwas figuring out where you fit
in, right?
Because at my predominantlywhite school, particularly high
school, you know, there's a bookcalled why are all the black
kids sitting together in thecafeteria or something like

(21:28):
that.
You often see these groups,right?
Your Asian kids may be sittingtogether and the next kids are
sitting together.
And even when you haveintegrated schools, they're
typically still segregated.
And so socially.
And so for me, when I steppedfoot on campus, it's like, where
do I go?
Who do I, you know, I'm not justgoing to pick that group of

(21:51):
black kids over there.
And that, that for me was reallythe beauty of it because you
really get an opportunity torealize that, you know, when we
talk about the black community,it's so diverse.
And so when I, when I was atSpelman, you have your black
girls who are into, you know,rock music.

(22:12):
You've got girls that are, youknow, really into like science
and biology.
And that's all they want to talkabout.
You have, you know, yourskateboarders, you have those
that are into gospel.
I mean, you have your studentswho are not from America, so
they don't identify asAfrican-American, they identify
as Haitian or, you know,Trinidadi in or God name.

(22:34):
And so what is that like, whatwas your experience like growing
up in another country or no?
What was your experience likegrowing up on the East coast, or
you have students who come fromvery privileged backgrounds and
you have students who, you know,came from really impoverished
backgrounds.
And so you have this real mixof, I would say the same type of

(22:58):
socioeconomic diversity that youwould see just within, you know,
the American society, but it's,you're, you're dealing
specifically with black women orblack girls.
And so that for me was, was Iwouldn't say the culture shock,
but that was, that was theadjustment that I had to make in
terms of figuring out whichgroups am I a part of?

(23:21):
Who do I get along with, youknow, more like, you know, where
do I find my own communitywithin my community?
Um, and so that was theinteresting part.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
That's awesome.
One thing you brought up theother day when we were talking,
not all students at HBCUs areAfrican-American, so that was
good for me to know.
Just an example of rear of allthat.
I don't know, I'm learning frompeople like Claudia, and I'm
very grateful to get theopportunity to speak with you.

Speaker 4 (23:50):
I'm sorry.
It's really similar to what CZIwas saying.
There's so many black studentswho don't know about HBC use,
and if they do know about them,they're not really sure how they
may measure up to otherpredominantly white
institutions.
And so we're part of the bookwas really about making sure
that specifically black studentsor black children are familiar

(24:14):
with HBC use, but if it's stillan issue in our own community,
then obviously, you know, peopleoutside of our community will
not be as familiar or will notrecognize that those schools are
open to any student who isinterested in attending.
And some of the schools havedone a great job of having
exchange programs where studentscan spend a semester on campus.

(24:38):
And that Spellman that's themajority, a lot of the white
students that were there werestudents who were doing an
exchange program.
And I mentioned to you that itwas really cool when one of the
young ladies on campus decidednot going back to my school.
I really love, you know, thecommunity that I've built here.
I liked the school and shedecided to transfer

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah.
What an amazing experience forher.
So along those same lines, whenI was seeing all these
headlines, I think it was thepresident of Morehouse who was
talking about recruiting.
I think he was on MSNBC or oneof those shows that are always
on in my house now that myhusband works from home.
But, um, he was talking aboutrecruiting efforts specifically,

(25:23):
and I actually looked at myhusband cause you know, they're
hiring.
And that seems like such a hugeopportunity for right now, you
know, things that can happenright now for people in the
working world, my fellow whiteallies, who are trying to figure
out now that we have thisinformation, what can we do with
it to really make things betteror take action, you know?

(25:45):
And I think that seems like areally easy opportunity, make
sure your HR department andwhoever's handling recruiting is
visiting HPCs and putting themon the map in terms of hiring.
Because, you know, if you reallywant diversity, we've mentioned
this in previous episodes, it'sit's every company has this
obligation and responsibility.

(26:06):
I think, you know, now more thanever to really kind of put the
pen to paper and say, this iswhat we're doing to diversify
our organization.
What better way to do that then,uh, recruiting from HBCUs and
bringing people into theorganization that way.
So that's one thing.
But do you have any other advicefor, for white allies in terms
of how they can show support forHBCUs?

(26:26):
You know, there's recruiting,like I said, your book again,
ABCs at HBCUs internships.
How do you, how do you think wecan, we can best improve our
allyship?

Speaker 4 (26:36):
I think normalizing HBCU.
So I think what's really cool ata lot of schools that they will
have a school named after or nota school they'll have a
classroom named after aparticular college campus, or
they'll have the little pennantsin their classroom, making sure
that in addition to thedifferent UCS or the different

(26:58):
private institutions, thepredominantly white private
institutions that you also havesome HBC use in your class, and
guess what?
You don't have to put those uponly if they're black students
in your class, right?
You can include those for allstudents just to make sure that
they recognize it.
These are actually viableinstitutions that any student

(27:18):
can attend.
I love the recruiting idea.
That was the way that I got myfirst internship in my first job
out of college, was companiescoming to the HBC and saying, I
actually want to recruit fromthis school.
I think that it's also importantto make sure that organizations

(27:39):
are looking at all HBC use.
So if you have an HBCU, that'sheadquartered in the state that
you're in to look at thoseschools as well.
And while I'm a proud alum ofSpelman and Clark and Morehouse
and Howard and Tuskegee, I mean,those are some of the more
popular ones, but it's importantthat people are looking at HBC

(28:00):
use that are not as well knownand talked about in the media as
much.
And I think similarlyscholarships, you know, if
you're able to donate money, ifyou're able in anything helps,
right?
Anything can help a student todefer the cost of, of tuition or
funding bare their collegeeducation.

(28:23):
So making sure that there areopportunities for students to
apply to different scholarships,so that, so that money isn't a
barrier to them persisting inthe college education,
particularly at an HBCU.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
And to that point, actually, I was going to say
that, you know, it might beassumed also that, you know,
just because a black student orminority student attends an
HBCU, that they get scholarshipsor they get some type of
financial path.
And the Clark Atlanta universityis a private institution.
And yeah, my mother was a singleparent and it was difficult to

(29:02):
come up with the tuition.
And unfortunately that's thecase for many of us, especially
if it's a one parent household.
So I think there also should besome education about that aspect
of it.
In many instances, blackstudents are, are trying to
change.
We're trying to change thedialogue, the narrative, and

(29:25):
we're trying to make adifference and, you know, become
successful entrepreneurs so thatwe can change history and
continue to change history.
But there are these obstaclesthat do exist and there are
people that do have way to help.
And those are the ways that youcan help is that yes, black

(29:46):
students still do need financialhelp in many instances, because
as Jess and I have mentioned onprevious episodes, there's still
a huge, a huge socioeconomicdisparity that's going on.
I mean, health disparity, Imean, it just goes on and on.
And so, you know, obviously thatcontinues when you talk about
higher education and yet we knowthat higher education is a way

(30:09):
proven way to, to change thenarrative and, and lift people
out of poverty so that they cancome back and they can make a
difference.

Speaker 4 (30:18):
Yeah.
And I mean, the endowments forHBC are totally different than,
you know, your larger privateinstitutions.
And so oftentimes again, I'm aneducator, you have students who
get accepted into HBC use.
And when they look at thefinancial aid packets that

(30:39):
they're receiving, it's a hugebarrier.
And so they have to make adecision between, you know, I've
had parents saying I'll mortgagemy home.
Right.
You know, we'll, we'll try tofigure it out, but it's, it's
definitely, they're definitelyhard decisions that many
families have to make whenthey're, when their children
say, I want this experience, butthey're looking at their

(31:00):
packages and they're thinking,well, if you go in state, we
don't have to make these samesacrifices.
And so money could definitely,

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, that's in a really important connection to
make.
I just have one more questionhere before we move on.
So, and this is something that Iwould love to know personally,
you know, and I think it'sbeneficial for again, my white
allies, how can other collegesand universities be more
inclusive and, and actually noteven just colleges and
universities, like taking it astep further, how can companies

(31:32):
be more inclusive to, you know,beyond the recruiting efforts?
Because that's something that Ithink about sometimes, you know,
every company, especially now,like I said, has said they want
to be diverse and stuff, but howdo we prevent this?
You know, all the white kidssitting together at the lunch
table and people of colorsitting at other lunch table,

Speaker 4 (31:52):
Ah, that's a big question.
I don't know that I have theanswer for that.
I would say, I think the mostimportant thing is that given
the visit happened over thesummer and calls for so much
social change, you're right.
There are so many institutionsand organizations that are
saying that we want to do betterand we want to diversify.
I think that first schools andcorporations need to really

(32:18):
figure out to what extentthey're committed to this
because for many, for manyorganizations and institutions,
I think people say it because itfeels like, Oh, I got to say
something, you've got to dosomething.
And so you, you make thesestatements and the actions don't
follow because the intentionsaren't pure.

(32:39):
And so I believe in being honestso that you can stay true to
whatever it is that you havesaid that you believe in and
that you stand behind becauseotherwise people are looking for
you to do things that are notconsistent with the true essence
of the culture or what, whatyou're truly committed to.

(33:02):
Right.
And so I think that it's thefirst thing to do is to ask
yourself how committed are we tothis work?
And if organizations are trulycommitted to diversifying, I
think that it's important thatwhether you're talking about a
school, which ask students, youknow, you're applying to a

(33:24):
school, oftentimes they ask youwhy you want to attend the
school or how you hope tocontribute.
And they may ask some pointedquestions, whether it's in the
personal statement or whetherthey provide an interview with
organizations when you'reinterviewing with them, your
cover letter sometimes has toaddress certain things.

(33:44):
When you come in to interview,they may ask you about, you know
, your experience, right?
They, I mean, when youinterview, they ask a number of
questions and usually thosequestions are very specific and
well thought out to, um, helpthem figure out whether you'd be
a good fit for the organization.
And so if companies arecommitted to diversity, I think
that that has to be a part ofthe process.

(34:06):
So when you are determiningwhich students are a good fit
for your campus for a year,trying to figure out whether
this employee is a good fit,then maybe you should, maybe you
should be asking questionsaround issues of diversity and
inclusion and equity, becauseit's one thing for me to say

(34:30):
that I'm committed to something.
And then the other people that99% of the other people in the
organization, whether it's astudent or whether it's faculty,
whether it's an intern, if thosepeople are not new or I haven't
done a good job to vet to seewhether these people have the
same value system and beliefsthat I do, then that could end

(34:55):
up being a recipe for disaster,because I've said something, but
the people who are now part ofthis organization aren't
necessarily committed because Ididn't ask.
And so I think thatorganizations are going to need
to start to figure out how tomake sure that the people that
make up that community havesimilar values and I get it, not

(35:16):
everyone has to agree.
Not everyone has to, you know,have the same moral compass.
But I think when you look at atcolleges in particular, it's
important that you have adiverse faculty is important
that the student body bediverse.
If that's important to you, it'simportant that the curriculum
reflect, you know, a number ofexperiences.

(35:38):
But if you have, oftentimesstudents will talk about
microaggressions or negativeexperiences that they've had
with their peers.
And so if colleges are nottrying to think about how they
can change those dynamics oncampus, then I think regardless

(35:59):
of whether they are admittingmore students of color or
students from differentbackgrounds, you're going to
continue to run into challengesbecause the community doesn't
necessarily value those samedoesn't value, those, those same
things.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yeah.
Those are excellent points forme.
You know, a lot of the times heand I talk about something she
was worried about when all, youknow, black lives matter and all
of that was kind of at its peak.
She said, I am worried that oncethe hype kind of quiets down a
little bit, that this won't betop of mind, you know, like it
is right now.
And I said, I don't think w youknow, I don't think we're going
to go back to that place, but,and I certainly hope not, but I

(36:41):
think all of those suggestionsor ways that we can kind of keep
the conversation moving forward,you know, prospective students
applying for colleges, there wasa huge portion of the country
that was, there were youngadults that really cared about
what was going on, maybe for thefirst time, since they've been
alive with all of the protestingand everything that was going

(37:01):
on.
So hopefully those are the samepeople that are going to be
considering what the racialmakeup is of the colleges, you
know, they're planning to attendand even what they choose to
study once they're there.
And then again, like you said,continually raising this in any
sort of interview setting,really, you know, the importance
of DEI.
And that's something I've beendoing myself as I've been
evaluating schools for my, mykids after COVID.

(37:23):
And we, you know, go to school,just asking at any, any
opportunity I have, whether it'sa parent of the school or
somebody that's giving a tour oranything like that, you know,
what are you guys doing arounddiversity, equity and inclusion.
And I think that's going to be apart of my life, you know,
forever.
Anyway, I digress.
Thank you so much, Claudia, forall of your time.
And I'm going to hand it over toZach.

Speaker 4 (37:43):
Yes.
So I have a few questions aboutthe black twister.
How did you manage to have timeto create the blacklist in 2019?
I guess the more children Istarted having, the more
birthday parties we were goingto, I'm always the mom, who's
trying to find the right toy forthe right the right child.

(38:06):
And as I mentioned before, Ithink that it's so important
that children see themselves inwhether it's a reflection of
them in the books that theyhave, or the toys that they're
playing with or shows that theywatch.
And again, my mom did a greatjob when I was growing up, when

(38:27):
I was growing up, one of themost popular toys were cabbage
patch dolls, and I loved them.
And my mom did everything thatshe could to try to find out for
those who are not familiar withcabbage patch, they were dolls
that, you know, yes.
Right.
Um, I guess they grew fromlettuce or cabbage and they

(38:50):
were, you would adopt them.
I found out that there isactually a hospital or adoption
agency that you could go to andyou would get this birth
certificate.
But the thing about it is Natecame named.
And the thing about it is theywere so popular that they would
sell out.
And so all of the parents aroundthe holidays would be going to

(39:10):
toys R us or whatever toy storeto try to get the toe, you know,
the dog before it sold out.
And my mom was able to not onlyget me a bunch of dolls, but
they were all black cabbagepatch, dolls, even harder to
find.
And so it was really importantfor me to make sure that my
children had toys that reflectedthem.

(39:31):
And, but I was always, you know,going to this website and then
trying to go to another websiteor going to big box retailers
and asking, you know, it took alot of work.
And so I just thought, well,what would happen if there was
just one site where you couldget a lot of recommendations or
ideas about different games andaction figures and books.

(39:55):
And when I realized that no onehad done it, I just decided to
take a stab at it.
And so, you know, it took alittle bit of planning, but I
was ultimately able to get awebsite up and to launch the
store.
And a lot of people will reachout to me.
They think that I actually amstocking all of the toys and

(40:19):
that would not be my kids.
Wouldn't I wouldn't be able tosell anything because I'd go
into wherever we had theinventory and they'd all be
opened.
So it's, I don't hold anyinventory.
We're really an affiliate site.
And so I find the toys and thenI provide a link to the toys.
And it's great because I'm ableto highlight and showcase a lot

(40:40):
of small black owned businessesthat might not get as much
business because they're justselling one product, they're
selling one doll or, you know, apuzzle, but because they're on
the black toy store, it'ssometimes gives them a little
bit more visibility because itprovides, you know, the black
toy store as a site where peopleknow that they can go to find a

(41:02):
number of things.
So oftentimes it's a way forthem to find smaller businesses
and to drive business to, um,that site.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
Yeah.
I was on your website and, uh, Ifound myself browsing for a bit
and I was like, Oh, well, thisis such cool stuff on here.
I actually was looking at your,your books that you have on
there.
And I was like, Oh, we have thisone.
Or we have that one.
I was like, Oh, I was stillmeaning to get this one.
And, you know, like, uh, one ofmy favorites is, um, the

(41:34):
princess and the pea you happento have that book.
And may amongst the stars is oneof my kids' favorite about the
astronaut Mae Jemison.
But then you also had the bookby, uh, LeBron James

Speaker 4 (41:47):
Called yes,

Speaker 3 (41:49):
I promise.
And I was like, yeah, I stillneed to get that one.
And then there's one aboutKamala Harris.
And I was like, I need to getthat one too.

Speaker 4 (41:59):
I mean, I can't keep up.
I told my daughter, I would hireher to manage the site because
there are so many products thatcome out and we, you know,
obviously we don't haveeverything on the site, but
there's so many cool ideas thatdifferent organizations or
different companies come upwith.
And so we want to try to captureas many as we can.

Speaker 3 (42:19):
And I think it's a great platform, but you also
have some STEM toys I noticed.
And, um, and specifically Inoticed that you focused on some
products for girls, like, youknow, not just the dolls, but
you actually had like chemistrysets, but girls, there's always
an under-representation offemales in those types of
industries,

Speaker 4 (42:39):
Just the packaging alone to be able to, you know,
have on the cover of the box,people of color, why don't we
have more of that?
You know, it's like they'rekids, they need to see, you
know, representation when Ibuilt the website, I thought,
okay, I don't, it would be greatto just focus on black owned
businesses.
That would be great.

(43:00):
But I also want it to give a nodto manufacturers who were
non-black owned companies thatwere saying, you know what,
here's a, here's a slime set.
And, you know, on the cover,we're just going to put a black
boy on it because black boys,pink plates line too, you know?
And so that's just important interms of representation.

(43:24):
It doesn't have to be a blackdoll.
It doesn't have to be a blackaction figure, but you can put
kids of color on the cover ofyour packaging and people will
buy it.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
And thank you.
Thank you for noticing that, youknow, that's important too, and
I'm glad to see that there'smore representation generally
speaking.
I think that I've noticed evenon television, that more
commercials and just starting tosee a little bit more diversity
just overall, I'm grateful forthat to them.
I don't know if that influencedyour thinking as well, but I

(43:59):
feel like there definitely is amovement to do something
different and people recognizethat it's important to, to
recognize and give, give creditto all the cultures that America
is supposed to represent.
For sure.
Thank you for doing that.
And I was going to ask, how hasthe overall response

Speaker 4 (44:21):
It's been great.
So I don't think I've evershared this before, but when I
came up with the idea in about2019, I believe I like most
people who watch a business, youknow, I came up, I come up with
a lot of ideas and this is one,I usually bet my ideas with my
husband.
And he, you know, he's like verysupportive, but he will tell me,

(44:44):
no, he doesn't think is great.
And then I get mad.
And then, you know, I might tryto launch it just, just because,
but this was an idea that hethought this is great.
I think that there's a need inthe market.
And so after all this months ofplanning, I launched it and I
expected that everyone wouldjust be like, this is the thing

(45:06):
we were looking for.
This is wonderful.
And that obviously didn'thappen.
And again, I am a mom and I havea full-time job.
And after a few months of, ormaybe almost a year, it was a
while of, of really trying topour into this business.

(45:26):
I just got tired actually.
So it's an affiliate site.
And in order, a lot of theproducts are products that are
on Amazon.
And Amazon says, if you want tobecome an affiliate, you've got
to make two qualifyingpurchases.
You have to have two qualifyingpurchases in six months.
So what does that mean?

(45:47):
It means that two people thatdon't know you have to go onto
the site and purchase something.
And I thought six months that Ican, I can do that.
And six months later, Amazonsaid, sorry, you did not make
your two sales.
And so you can't be anaffiliate.

(46:09):
And that was reallydiscouraging.
I didn't do it to make money,but you know, I'm paying for
hosting this site.
I just want it to at least beable to break even, and that
wasn't happening.
And then life just continued.
It just, it wasn't something Iwas prioritizing as much because
I thought that nobody wasinterested in it.

(46:29):
I thought that it just wasn't agood idea, but I kept the site
up because, you know, if peoplewant, even though I wasn't gonna
make any money off of the site,it still would be a good
reference for people who werelooking for these products.
And I really just kind of forgotabout it until we were on
vacation during the summer, wejust took a road trip to

(46:50):
Southern California.
And I happened to be in an oldemail.
And I saw there was just a lotof emails from black twister.
And I thought it was reallybizarre.
And I logged on to Instagram andI think I went from like two
followers to like 200, but itwas just pretty like amazing.

(47:12):
And I didn't know what washappening.
And obviously because of all thesocial unrest, people were
looking for, looking for ways tosupport black businesses and
then things just exploded fromthere.
I went on vacation spot, Oh,maybe this was a viable idea.
And you know, people areactually into it.

(47:33):
And I think there was the NewYork times article that happened
that summer and I just gotrecommitted to it.
And so it's been great becauseit's something that my kids can
also be a part of.
And I think for them, that's alearning experience as well.
You know, how do you find notjust cause if I left it up to my

(47:53):
eight year old, it would just bea Pokemon toy store, right?
Like that's all that it wouldbe.
And so we talk about, you know,a market, like a target market
outside of yourself and youknow, what kind of products
would a little kid want versusan elementary school student.
And, you know, my daughter is anavid reader.
So what kind of books would yourecommend for, for young

(48:16):
readers?
And so that's been a great, um,a great way to just involve them
in, you know, starting abusiness and starting a business
that has a greater socialmission than just, you know,
trying to make money.
It's an affiliate site.
So it's not work.
It doesn't make a ton of money,but I also am really big on

(48:36):
investing.
So the money that we do get, I,I give to my kids and I asked
him to invest it into, to giveback with it.
But I think I'm most proud ofbeing able to support other
black businesses when Vogue Randran a piece on black businesses
to support the business thatthey chose from the black toy

(48:58):
store was a business called kidscoloring co.
And so they're a coloring book.
They create coloring books andcrafts to go with those coloring
books, but they also have a,like a gardening kit that was
the product that ran in Vogue.
And literally a friend sent mean email and said, Hey, you

(49:19):
know, we saw the black toy storyin boat.
And when I realized that it wastheir company, they're
registered nurses, they work afull time job.
And my heart was so full justbecause of that, when I tell you
how exciting it was to just sendthem a DM through Instagram and
say, you guys are gettinginvolved, like that was

(49:41):
everything.
And so that's really thegreatest joy of business.

Speaker 3 (49:45):
I liked that.
I liked that passing it on.
Yeah, exactly.
I know that you've, you've givena lot of thought to probably
many of the same issues.
We have everything that wasgoing on last year and then your
children being home, everyonebeing home, what would you want
our listeners to know aboutsocial justice and inclusivity?

(50:09):
What, what would you think is animportant takeaway from your
experiences?

Speaker 4 (50:15):
I think that as a parent, when you think about
your children's experiences, weall want our kids to feel valued
and included, right?
I mean, the worst thing is foryour to come home and say,
so-and-so, wouldn't let me playwith them for no reason.
Right.
And so I think on that level, wecan all agree that like

(50:35):
inclusivity and making peoplefeel like they're part of a
community is important.
And I appreciate all the workthat is being done, where people
are becoming more conscious ofthe value.
I guess I would say that I thinkthe most important part of it is
to be willing to listen and bewilling to learn, especially as

(50:59):
adults.
So often we kind of feel likeI've got this down.
I know what I'm doing.
Whether you know, it's in my,you know, professionally or
personally, I've got thisfigured out.
And I think that it can be whenwe're, whenever we're asked to
step outside of our comfortzone, that can be, it can be a
little scary.
Right.

(51:20):
And I think as a society, we, wehave become so comfortable with
being comfortable, right?
I mean, that's the thing that wevalue.
Like you do.
What makes you feel comfortable?
What makes you feel good?
Like you deserve to be happy andyou deserve to feel great and
you know, be around people whomake you feel good and who cheer

(51:41):
you on.
And those things are important.
I think it's also important torecognize.
I know as a teacher, I'm oftentelling my students when I'm
trying to really get them to dothe thing that I want them to do
is that oftentimes the greatestgrowth comes from being
uncomfortable.
Right.
And it's the thing that I try toget my students to do.
Just make that phone call.

(52:02):
I know you w you said that youwant that internship.
You said that you're, you know,you want to go to that school.
Remember when you met thatperson and they gave you a
business call, pick up the phoneand call them.
And it's a thing that they don'twant to do.
And I think as adults, we oftenhave to recognize that part of
ourselves where we don't want toget uncomfortable because we

(52:22):
like what we created here.
And so if we are to be, you know, on the right side of history
and we want to advocate forchange, it's important to find
those areas in our lives wherewe become very comfortable, but
our, a certain level ofdiscomfort may help to push
things a bit further.
And I think that it's importantto listen.

(52:43):
I am, you know, I'm a woman,I'm, African-American, I'm
heterosexual.
I am, you know, Christian.
So I understand thosecommunities.
But when I am in community orhaving conversations with people
outside of those communities, Ihave to be willing to listen.

(53:04):
Even if their experiences don'tnecessarily reflect my own
experiences, I have to bewilling to listen.
And I think sometimes we're soquick to maybe feel threatened
by other people's experiencesthat sometimes instead of
listening, we want to justifyour own experiences.

(53:26):
And so I think in order to movethe work along, we've got to be
comfortable with a level ofdiscomfort and we have to be
willing to listen actively,listen to other people's
experiences and then be willingto ask questions and be okay
with feeling like, well, there'sthis question that I want to
ask, but I don't know if, if youknow, maybe it makes me look bad

(53:49):
because I'm asking this questionagain.
It goes back to my experience asan educator, there are so many
students who don't get what theyneed, because they they're
afraid to ask the question.
They're afraid to look dumb.
Right.
And the, the students in myexperience who Excel are those
who are like, I don't care whatyou, I'm going to ask this

(54:10):
question because I need to askthe question.
And so when we're talking aboutthese kinds of sensitive issues,
it doesn't mean that you justblurt the first thing that comes
to mind, because it could be alittle insensitive.
If there's a question that yougenuinely want to know, what's
the correct way to frame it.
Is this question that I shouldbe asking in this group, or
could I maybe wait and ask apresenter or ask someone that,

(54:33):
you know, I work with thequestion privately, you know?
So I, I think that those are thethings that we need to do if, if
we truly want to advocate forthe change.
And I think many people in ourcountry recognizes is important
in timely.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
Thank you for all of those thoughts.
And it reminded me of something,you know, just since we started
the podcast, I realized how muchpointless time I spent on social
media browsing, celebritynonsense.
If you just carve out a portionof that time and, you know,
start following people likeyourself, thought leaders

(55:11):
around, you know, diversity,equity, and inclusion, there is
a ton that you can learn fromthe comfort of your living room,
on your sofa with your phone.
So could you tell us, I thinkit's HBCU prep school is the
handle for the ABCs of HBCUs,the publishing company, right?
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (55:27):
Yes.
That's our handle.
That's Instagram and Facebookand clubhouse.
And then the black toy store isat the black toy store.
The website is black toystore.com.
And the book is HBC U prep,school.com.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
Yeah.
So like I was saying, I wasliterally looking for Christmas
gifts and I went on yourInstagram page for the black toy
store and you have all kinds ofideas right there for everybody
to see.
So it's super easy if, if, ifpeople are looking for, you
know, holiday, birthday,whatever, just looking to
diversify your kid's toy room,which is also something I'm
always trying to do, visit herwebsite and, or her Instagram

(56:09):
page and check out the ideasthere.

Speaker 4 (56:11):
Thank you.
Yes.
Great ideas.
And we're so grateful for havingyou today.
You've said so many things thatare very profound and I hope
that our listeners appreciate

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Having someone like you on opening for you guys.
This has been so much fun.
Thank you, Claudia.
I've learned a ton and I justwanted to close with, sometimes
I get caught up trying to getall my, my notes in, but you
know, black history month hasdefinitely taken on a whole new
meaning, you know, in myhousehold with my family.
And I hope there are a lot offamilies that feel that way

(56:46):
also, but I hope this, you know,this episode really enlightened
people on why it's important to,to have it and to understand it
and understand the history and,you know, it's place within
American history.
It's not, it's not two separatethings, but, you know, it's,
it's certainly deserving of, um,separate conversations, separate

(57:07):
educating until we can get to aplace of more inclusivity and,
um, less delineation betweenquote unquote black history and
American history.
So thank you so much, Claudia.
It was a pleasure.
The pleasure is mine.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Thank you for listening to awakened in
America.
If you enjoy today's podcast, besure to subscribe and leave a
review.
You can also find us onInstagram at awakened in
America.
That's awakened underscore inunderscore America and remember
be mindful, be grateful.

(57:43):
And most of all be you.