September 27, 2022 • 41 mins
On this week’s episode, we’re talking with Jared Rowan about the tools and self-discovery found in therapy, yoga practice as a way of living, and the empowerment that can be experienced in both.
Jared is a Psychotherapist on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, working with individuals across the lifespan, providing one-on-one, family, and couple's therapy, for over 13+ years. Jared is also an E-RYT 500-hr Yoga Teacher (teaching for a decade) and a Katonah Yoga Teacher in training. He aims to teach yoga as an experience and a way of living life, connecting movement, philosophy, and personal insights. Jared believes in creating an embodied experience in our practice and life, which allows us to tune into our patterns, gather insight and provide tools and techniques to help us navigate life's circumstances.
Jared’s Websites:
Jared’s Podcast, Beyond the Mat: https://linktr.ee/beyondthematpod
Books Mentioned:
Yamas and Niyamas by Deborah Adele
The Four Desires by Rod Stryker
Evvie Drake Starts Over by Linda Holmes (source of the therapy metaphor mentioned by Casey)
The views and opinions expressed on Awareness 2 Action are those of the guests and host and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Prevention Department or Northwestern Community Services.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Jared.
(00:00):
Welcome to the podcast.
Hi there.
Let's just jump right into things.
Let's have, you start with tellingour listeners about yourself and the
work you do and the path you took to
get here.
So yeah, my name's Jared Rowan.
I am a psychotherapist and yoga instructorin the ocean city, Maryland area.
(00:24):
I've been doing it for about 14 years now.
So I've been a psychotherapistfor about 14 and then a yoga
instructor for about a decade.
But practicing yoga forabout 14 years as well.
And kind of the path that led mehere I was pretty, I'm a pretty
(00:45):
transparent person, so just through myown childhood and upbringing, I had
childhood anxiety and O C D as a child.
Not like horribly bad, but itdefinitely impacted my life.
And I also grew up with a sibling that hadsome addiction and mental health issues.
And then my father is also a therapist.
(01:08):
So there was a lot of, kind of,of, of influence in driving me this
direction to become a therapist.
And then the yoga just kind of naturallyhappened when I moved to ocean city.
Oddly enough, I was sharing an office.
With a case manager and she happenedto be a yoga instructor and she's
(01:29):
like, you gotta come try yoga.
Like it's really great for, you know,stress and all that type of stuff.
So I just started doing it.
And then from there I got my 200hour certification finished my 300
hour hour certification, and I'mnow doing a third certification and
actually got to travel to India aswell for a part of the training.
(01:51):
So that's kind of the path thathas brought me where I'm at today.
Purely out of curiosity.
I think it's really interestingwhen people go into oftentimes
helping professions thattheir parents are also in.
Yes.
I feel like you see a lot ofpeople who are teachers, because
a parent was a teacher or a doctorbecause a parent was a doctor.
I'm curious what that has been likefor you to seen it when you were
(02:14):
young and to make it your own now.
So my story, I guess, is pretty,pretty, will not make your point.
A little bit, but my dadwas super boundary oriented.
So I actually didn't hear a lotabout what he did growing up.
It was a pretty intensive job.
I mean, he was working at like, psycHospitals when they were still, you
(02:38):
know, around and pretty regularly.
So he did not talk about work a whole lot.
But my uncle was also a hypnotictherapist and he's written a few
books he's since passed away.
But I don't know that itplayed like a huge, huge role.
It was more, I've always had this driveto as cliche as it is like to, to help
(03:00):
others or to like provide servitude.
And I was originally going to schoolto, to do like premed and physical
therapy and I just had an amazing.
Child psychology professor thatI just like fell in love with and
was like, oh my gosh, I totallyhave to, I have to do this.
So I switched.
I have, I actually have a BA orbachelor's degree in biology.
(03:23):
Which is pretty funny.
I was the only science major,my entire grad program.
But yeah, so it's alittle bit of a different.
Different way.
And I think,
yeah, you found your own way.
Yeah,
that's good.
I also had a child psychology professorin college who I just, I was like, I'm
not, I don't wanna do what she does,but I wanna be just like her, whatever
(03:46):
We didn't go to the same college.
Did we?
No,
I don't think so, but
oh, okay.
Unless professor was atJMU, I don't think so.
yeah.
Frostburg.
So the first time we spoke,you specifically mentioned the
difference between catharsis anddoing the actual work in therapy.
And I just wanna jump right into thatbecause I found it really interesting.
(04:07):
And I have been thinking about it a lot.
Since you first mentioned it.
So can you just speak more to
that?
Yeah.
I really love this question orthis thought or this pondering
it's like for, for people thatdon't know for the listeners that
don't know, like what is catharsis?
I think that's a good place just tostart, but you know, as we talk about
therapy, Part of therapy is catharsis,but then we're gonna talk about kind
(04:30):
of direction I've moved in and in theprocess, but catharsis is really just the
purging or like releasing of emotions tohopefully offer some sense of renewal,
restoration, spiritual healing, andcatharsism is really like, I always
describe it as like, when you take a.
(04:52):
Like a big sigh.
Like that's what acathartic experience is.
It's like an unloading and thatis part of a therapeutic process.
However we really want to moveinto not making that the only part
of, of the therapeutic process.
So like and I learned this actuallythrough yoga is one of my teachers had
(05:12):
said like, it's so cliche to say, butlike letting go, if you've ever been to
a yoga class or just like in general,you probably hear such lingo about.
You just gotta let it go.
You gotta move on.
And one of my teachers told me, whichI loved is you should never tell anyone
to let go if they don't have the tools,techniques to deal with the letting go.
(05:37):
So I think that's wherethis movement from.
Yes, catharsism is important.
And like the processing is the, is partof the therapeutic process, but it's
only the beginning, the real work become.
After the Cathar.
Does that make sense to kind of get
yeah, yeah.
Started
absolutely.
(05:58):
Absolutely.
I think something, I just we'll talkmore about stigma, I'm sure in this
conversation, but I think that there'sa really beautiful push in a lot
of spaces to reduce stigma around.
Seeking counseling going to therapy.
Yes.
Checking in on one's mental health.
But I, I think sometimes thoseconversations stay very surface level and
(06:23):
we're like, everyone should go to therapy.
Yes.
And it's like, okay, great.
But like maybe I don't know anyone inmy life whose been to therapy and I
don't really know what that looks like.
So now it's a daunting thingand maybe I won't pursue it.
So I think talking about the toolsand the attitudes that someone can have
when pursuing counseling and tryingto do the work is really important.
(06:47):
Yeah, and I, yeah.
And you make a really good point.
Like you don't even, and maybe thisis a misconception, you don't even
have to know why that you're there.
Like sometimes I, and I really lovewhen people are like, you know,
I'm just feeling a little lost.
Like, I don't even knowwhy I'm here today.
And I'm like, well,you're in the right place.
Like my job is to helpyou figure that out.
So for now it's just coming and chattingand like getting to know your story.
(07:11):
And I think that's what we really need tofocus on is we all have a story to tell.
We all have a narrative.
And it's so funny because.
So many of us love movies andbooks and, you know, the hero's
journey and like all these things.
And I think people fail to realizethat they have that within themselves.
(07:32):
And the processing of thatstory can be where you start.
It doesn't have to be like, Iself-identify like I have an
anxiety disorder or I'm depressed,or I've had a really bad thing
happen to me that I can't get over.
It can just be, you know, I, I wantto figure out my direction or I have
(07:55):
a lot of people coming and they'relike, I'm trying to figure out purpose.
Like, and I think those are not likeeasy questions by any means, but
entry ways into like figuring outif there are deeper steps, you know,
I really want people to realize.
You don't have to have, like, I'm sureyou've heard the term big T little T
(08:17):
trauma, like, you know, like you don'thave to have trauma to come to therapy.
It can just be.
I almost like thinking of it, like Ihave a pattern or a habit, and I'm just
curious about, and I want to know why Ikeep repeating this pattern or this habit.
And, and the funny one I always giveis like, you know, women who date
the same bad boys over and over.
(08:38):
And they're like, why am I datingthis, type of man, you know?
But it can be something like, ifyou're a perfectionistic, if you're a
procrastinator, like it can be these.
Not super deep.
Of course, I welcome the deep discussionsas well, but I just think there's
so much benefit from just processingthrough what your life has been thus
(09:00):
far, if that makes a lot of sense.
Absolutely.
And I feel like you know, sometimes.
I think sometimes it's hard tonotice patterns within ourselves,
but there are other patterns thatare pretty obvious and it's like,
okay, I see that this is happening.
I can identify the pattern, but beyondthat, I like really do not know right.
(09:20):
How to help myself.
And that's okay.
It's it's good to have a buddy
yes.
To help you
and well, and that's like, you maketwo really, really nice points is you
have to think societal conditioning.
So like you said, like some peoplearen't even self aware, which
awareness is the first goal of therapy.
Is to be, be able to be self-aware andwe can talk, there's like four main goals
(09:44):
to therapy, but the first one is whenpeople become in perspective, I'm like,
yes, they, they like they can identify.
But you made a really good pointabout like people not really knowing
what their patterns or habits.
Are.
And I think a lot of that has to do withthe I'm gonna generalize here because
in, in the work that I've done, themajority of people are what I call like
(10:06):
rug sweepers, which is like, when thingshappen, they sweep it under the rug and
many families function in this mentality.
So then as adults, we also function like.
We're like very unawareactually, as, as people.
And I always used to jokewith people, like there are
tons of bumpy rugs in America.
Like people are not, you know, like peopleare not dealing with their stuff or even
(10:30):
able to recognize that they have stuff.
Like I will have people that are cryingand I will ask them why they're crying.
They cannot.
Like that, that emotional experience tolike their reaction or like a thought.
So I think you make a really good point.
Like people just aren't ableto identify it because they've
(10:51):
been conditioned not to.
And I also love the point you made abouta buddy and I would love to like, talk
about that more because I have so manypeople that say, well, I don't think I
need a therapist because I have a friend.
And I'm like, well, here's the thing.
Friends are biased peopleas much as they love you.
(11:12):
And as much as they're going to tell you,they're gonna be straight up with you.
They have a stake in arelationship with you.
It's more helpful to have a nonbiasedformal relationship with someone that's
gonna call you out on your stuff.
So I think that's a reallyimportant point to point out.
(11:32):
Is like with my, myclients and my patients.
I care about them deeply, but I amnot friends with them, you know?
And, and I think that's important tokind of point out there is a difference
between going to your friend for supportand working on yourself in therapy.
Absolutely.
There's also legal parametersto confidentiality.
(11:55):
Your
yes.
Therapist is not going to your otherfriend and being like, oh my God, you
will not believe what Lucy told me.
right, right.
That will never happen.
and you know, we're not supposed totell our friends, our deep dark things.
Mm-hmm
, you know, like that, that's more for us to pro like Carl Young, like a therapist.
I don't know if you're familiar, buthe talks a lot about the unconscious.
(12:18):
And there's some thingsthat we don't share.
And that's why so often people evenlie in therapy, you know, because it's
kind of part of the process, but ourdeepest, darkest is not things that we
tell our partners even, or our friends.
It may be, but it's, it's for us toreally work through, to like, determine
what we wanna do with that experience.
(12:41):
And yes, confidentiality is huge.
I mean, you're, you're protected.
It's one of the safest environmentsfor you to be yourself and to not be
judged, which I think isn't always likefriends wanna say they don't judge, but
sometimes that does happen amongst thegroup where in a therapeutic setting,
I just have had so many people like, ohmy God, like I just don't feel judged.
(13:04):
I feel really like supported.
So I think that's important also.
Yeah.
And the safety you mentioned is key too.
You know, same thing yousaid before, like to.
To talk about these thingswithout the right, or to let
it go without the right tools.
Like you said before, is, isnot always safe or healthy.
(13:25):
So to talk about it with a friend, likeif you're trying to dig into those really
deep, dark things that you need to workthrough with a friend, it might not be a
safe way to do it because they don't havethe training or the tools for that kind of
yes.
Care.
And that's not to say.
You know, that community is not helpfuland that we don't need relationships.
(13:46):
I, I never want that to, to sound likethat, but to really unpack those things,
you need a professional.
Yeah, you totally do.
And you and I used to say, as Iwas training therapist, Like trauma
work is con and again, I'm trying toavoid these terminology, but trauma
or exp, I like adverse experiences.
(14:06):
You have to really be trained to dealwith that because if you unpack it,
you have to package it back in thebox within the hour, and then you
want the people to come back to, tocontinue to work through their, their.
Adverse experiences or their traumas.
And it does take a skillto be able to do that.
And like you said, it's not sayingcommunity and friends, aren't in
essential part of our, our process.
(14:29):
But they're not , something that we canrely on for change, I guess, is like, we
want to have, as we say, like these toolsand techniques for change, like, like,
like if we're disclosing to a friend,some, some big thing that happened to.
Us, but what about after thatthen what, where do we go?
Like, what if we just word vomit or as thekids are calling and I'm learning now as
(14:52):
trauma dumping this is like a new termthat, that gen Z is teaching me, but
like, once you disclose all of that, what,like, don't, you want to be able to make
sure you have tools and techniques to likeregulate the experience after, because
it's not just like a one and done thing.
Oftentimes you say it, and then your,your mind kind of is with it a little bit.
(15:15):
And if you don't have the tools andtechniques you're going to potentially
spiral outta control or which I thinkis a really good thing, which maybe
we'll talk more about later is like,you're gonna use emotions to make
decisions and believe it or not, we don'twanna use emotions to make decisions.
So I think that's also like really,really good point to, to mention
(15:36):
absolutely.
We mentioned stigma before.
I love to talk about, and whenwe talk about it all the time
yeah.
On this show, but it just isalways important and always
relevant and will be for as long.
Stigma exists around mentalhealth and mental healthcare.
Yes.
So I just would love to hear whatit's looked like for you to address
(15:59):
stigma in your life and in your work.
Oh my gosh.
You're right.
It's like almost like an overdone topic.
Right.
But it's never overdone becauseit's still relevant, but I
totally get what you're saying.
So this is the, I guess.
Like trying to formulate like,like mental health stigma.
(16:20):
We all know that talkingabout our problems.
You know, we tend not to do it as Imentioned earlier, because we've been
conditioned not to do it already.
There's stigma.
We also imply quite a bit in societythat you should be able to fix yourself.
Which is partially tr true.
That doesn't mean you don't have mentorsand teachers to help you along the
(16:41):
way, which we leave out quite a bit.
So I think that's a bigpiece of the stigma.
And then you add on culturalsocioeconomic, spiritual
influences that teach you.
For example, like men, men are notgoing to therapy as much as women.
(17:01):
Which is a really unfortunate thing.
The majority of my caseload is female.
I probably have, I probably see 70 people.
Maybe I have 10 men, if that,so the stigma of you don't
talk about your feelings.
You know, you keep them inside.
I think that is a, almost asocietal programmatic issue.
(17:23):
So without.
Going that other route of stigma.
I think it's just to point outthat we've almost been conditioned
to, to not talk about these.
And I, I, I know you probably knowthis Casey, but like the more you
talk about it, the more you reduce thestigma and the more that you own it.
And you're like, oh my gosh.
You're like me.
Like when I tell people, by theway I go to therapy, oh my God, a
(17:45):
therapist that goes to therapy, like,you know, it almost relieves people
or like makes them feel relatable.
Like because someone who'ssaying I'm trained to deal
with an emotional experience.
I can't always deal with my own.
Or like you said earlier, I can't alwaysidentify my own pattern because I live in
(18:05):
this body, but it's like, I I'm kind ofrobotic and just going through day to day.
So I think that's just somethingI wanna point out as like stigma,
I think is just a systematic.
Societal programmatic issue.
And I think, like I said, theonly way to reduce it is to
talk about it and normalize it.
Because I feel the, how do I describe it?
(18:30):
People who have been to therapy tendto be more resilient, adaptable people.
Like they really know how to Navigatechallenge and struggle rather than
like waiting your whole life tohave that really hard struggle.
And then you completely self distract.
Like I kind of wanna have all thetools in my like little nap sack
(18:51):
for like when the bad things happen.
Not saying they will, but I'mable to pull on experience.
So I think if we relabeled mentalhealth as like almost as much
as we prioritize physical healthand I'm sure you've heard the.
Comparison over and over,but like, it's interesting.
Like we would never discouragea diabetic to stop insulin.
(19:14):
But we're not like encouragingpeople to seek counsel or direction.
So it's like, you know, becausepeople believe so much in like
mental health is a, is a choiceor like a self in inflicted thing.
When.
There's so many studies behindhow that is not true, that it is a
(19:34):
genetic disorder, but it's also anepigenetic disorder, meaning that your
environment changes your genetic code.
Like this isn't like magical talking.
This is like research based.
So I think the more we can shiftthat, and I think schools are doing
that a lot better in colleges andit seems like people are getting at
(19:58):
least being more open to therapy.
I think then like whenI started 14 years ago.
So I think it's there.
Yeah.
I think there's a flexibility of it.
That's growing of, of seeing it asa health need and we have different
health needs throughout our lives.
As we go through different stages, youdon't, you know, you don't necessarily.
(20:19):
Get started with therapy and then utilizeit every week for the rest of your life.
Yes.
You know?
Yes.
It might be like, I reallyneed this in this season.
And then there's a time whereyou're like, you know, this is not
as helpful to me as it used to be.
So you take some time offand then it's time again.
That's, that's what my own therapeutic,you know, journey has looked like.
(20:39):
And it's great.
Yeah,
my life changes.
Yeah.
And I think that's really important.
Like I've been in and out of therapy10 years and there were moments
when I went once a week, there weremoments when I didn't go for two
years, there was a moment like,holy crap, I'm getting married.
I need to process this.
That was situational.
There was the pandemic, which I waslike, probably need to talk to someone
(21:01):
about working from home and how smallmy apartment is with my partner.
Like there's, there'stons of, of you're right.
It's kind of.
You don't have to utilize it over andover and over in a good therapist will
be okay with you saying you need a break.
I have had the experience I'vehad three therapists and one really
didn't like, want me to go on a break?
(21:22):
And it really rubbed me the wrong way.
And ultimately I did seek a differentprovider because I do believe it's
self-driven the most therapists will.
You know what, let me know when youneed me in the future, if you need me.
So I want people to knowthat you are in control.
It's not like somebody's going thereto like, keep you around for years.
(21:43):
Some people do stay for a whileor tap in and out, but I think
that's important to, to recognize.
I wanted to mention an analogythat I thought of when you
were talking about how yeah.
I can help myself to a degree.
I just finished like a verysweet lighthearted summer read.
(22:05):
It's called heavy Drake startsover and I'll include it in
the description for anyone.
I wanna give the author credit, but Idon't remember her name, but at that,
toward the end of the book, there'sa therapist talking to a, a woman.
Whose Very hesitant about therapy.
And she's saying like, I reallyjust feel like I should be able
to figure this out on my own.
And the therapist is like, did youknow, you can pull out your own teeth.
(22:29):
Like if you wanted to do a toothextraction on yourself, you could, you
could get the tools and do it, but itprobably wouldn't be very safe and
it might end up being very unpleasant.
So it could be helpful to havesomeone who knows what they're
doing to extract your tooth.
What a lovely metaphor.
I know.
I know that to be true, but in thatvisualization, I was like, oh my gosh.
(22:53):
wow.
How beautiful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, why wouldn't you go the easierroute that like, I don't even know
what to do with these emotions.
Like this is a person who'slike an emotion expert.
Like, let me see if they, if they can andthey will, they'll be able to hold space
for you to validate you to help reframe.
What we call cognitive distortionsor inaccurate ways, ways of viewing
(23:17):
things like they're gonna have allthese skills that you're right.
You might get there, but probablya whole lot later or not at all.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
And you just keep adding to thatnap sack or tool belt that you're
talking about, you know, over timeyou when you're in therapy are.
(23:38):
Having these tools given to youand encouraged, and you're also
then taking those and you'reable to find your own tools.
It really is a, a collaborative.
Partnership when it's, whenit's the right therapeutic fit.
And I think that's importantfor people to know too.
Yeah.
And it's not like like you said,not all tools work for everyone.
(23:58):
Like believe it or not, onereally good tool is just breath.
And I know that's like, like even I wouldlike laugh at that, like, oh my God.
Just breathe.
Right.
But the reason we teach people thatis because it's a bigger concept.
It's like the ability to just breatheis slowing down your reactivity.
It's allowing your emotions to settle.
(24:20):
It's like something that you canfocus on that isn't that repeating
thought that you're having.
So it can be simple tools like breath.
It can be journaling.
Some people are adverse to that.
Again, it's not like one size fits all.
It can be exercise.
It can be meditation.
It can be prayer.
Art.
I mean, there's so, so manytools that people can utilize.
(24:44):
And again, some of them, like, it'sfunny because sometimes I'll have
people say, oh my God, I can't believeI'm paying you to tell me this.
Like, it'll be theseobvious kinds of things.
I had somebody do that a couple monthsago and I was like, well, what you
and your husband need to do is havea calendar on the fridge so that
you can see where your kids are.
And she.
Paying you a copay for this.
(25:05):
I'm like, yes.
I'm like you are, but it's well worth it.
Right?
Like so I think you're right.
Like, that's, that's agood point to make about.
Affecting those tools and figuringout which ones work with you, but
be willing to try each one at least.
Yes.
Yes.
Because oftentimes what we're workingthrough in therapy is not low stakes, but
(25:26):
the tools to try very low stakes, it isvery low stakes for me to try journaling
and realized this is not for me.
And then to not do it,like, what did that cost me?
Maybe the, the price of a journalor a piece of paper and a pencil.
Right.
You know, and what 20 minutes, like,
yeah.
(25:47):
And as therapists, Imean, not, not all, but.
I don't expect peopleto do their homework.
So we use the toll of resistanceas a toll of treatment.
So when people come in,like it just happened today.
I had a session, the telehealthsession and she's like, oh my
God, I didn't do my homework.
And I was like, well, that's okay.
Let's like, talk about like whatprevented you from doing it?
(26:09):
So know that like the expectation isto just have the dialogue around it
or give it a try and then go like,oh my God, Jared, I hated journaling.
Like that was actually painful for me.
And then we explore that a bit more, butthen maybe we try something different
and I love that you said low stakes,cuz that is like, yeah, it's low stakes.
(26:30):
So
yeah one tool.
Slash practice slash is probably a lotof other ways you could refer to it.
Yeah.
That, that you love and arepassionate about is yoga.
And I want to make sure that wetalk about your mobile yoga studio.
Yes,
please.
Yes.
And just me first mentioning, Ialways like to preface this yoga
(26:52):
is not a religion, so I always wantpeople to know that and that yoga
is a lifestyle and that you canhave a religion and practice yoga.
So yoga is really there's actuallyeight limbs to yoga and a lot of people
don't know this, but the only onethat is physical, there's only one.
All the other ones are learn are abouthow to treat other people, how to treat
(27:15):
yourself breath, work, meditation,focus, the ability to surrender.
And then there's the physical practice.
So I want people to know like,oh my gosh, that's all in yoga.
Yes.
If you go to a good yogapractitioner, you will get all that,
which it's kind of therapeutic.
It's not kind of, it is therapeutic.
(27:36):
But I have a mobile yoga studio.
I worked for a traditionalstudio for about nine years.
And I just wanted to, I don't wannasay like, We had different integrity.
But my, my vision changed fromwhen it started to where I am now.
(27:56):
Like it was a very fitness orientedspace and I was totally into that.
But I've moved in more of this directionof like applying these tools, even in
yoga, like giving people breath, work towork on, or having a discussion about.
Mediating two, two qualitiesin life, like effort and rest.
(28:20):
How do you do that?
And I wanted to have a space wherewe could practice physically, but
there were also be these moments ofnot kind of like discussion or what
we call Darma talk in the class.
So I kind of just said, I'mgonna do this mobile yoga studio.
I'm gonna do popups at different places.
(28:41):
I'm not gonna have likean actual physical place.
So I've been doing that.
It'll be a year in Januaryand it's called home evolve.
And it's actually part of themain physical space is in the
therapy office that I use.
There's a huge wellness room.
And then I do lots of events throughoutthe area and teacher training, training
(29:03):
people to be teacher yoga teachers andtons and tons of workshops as well.
I would love to talk more aboutwhat you're doing with it in
the community, because I have.
Noticed a, what I think is a reallypositive shift in at least in my city.
(29:25):
Yoga becoming a little bit moreaccessible, like not just being within
the walls of a studio with a veryexpensive monthly membership fee, but
like project yoga, that's done in apark and there's a recommended or a
suggested donation, but is not necessary.
Or just like
yes,
community events where it's come one,come all, like, bring your own mat.
(29:47):
Let's see what happens.
What, what do you have to say about.
Oh, I love that.
Like, accessibility.
So that's another part is the studio I'veI've like created is an inclusive studio.
So even the promotional images are allbodies, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
All people.
(30:08):
And I really wanted to make yogaaccessible because it is a, it's
intimidating to a lot of people.
So the yoga that I teach nowis not this power yoga, which
I am avoiding using this term.
And it, and it's, it's, it's adifferent style at this point.
And then I also offer apay what you can method.
(30:29):
So I, I set a price, but if you can't.
Hey, you can't like, but youstill can come and practice.
And I'm fortunate enough to do thatbecause it isn't my main living.
And then monthly.
I give away donations to localcharities and global charities.
So we do like yoga classes thatare called karma classes, which I'm
(30:52):
sure Westerners are familiar with.
Oh, you're karma, but it's a little bitdifferent in, in the yoga philosophy.
It's not like, oh my God, if you dosomething bad, something bad will happen.
It's more like karma is likekind of like giving of energy.
And in return, you'recreating more positive energy.
(31:12):
It may not even be personal to yourexperience, but the collective.
So once a month, I will do classes wherewe donate for like the humane society
or, you know, believe in tomorrow or alot of these different organizations.
So I think that's alsoimportant and, and they're free.
(31:34):
So I have some people that come toclass that don't have memberships.
I think that's reallyimportant because you're right.
White, it's been kind of whitewasheda little bit, you know, when it
came over here and you're right.
It became this thing that isn'treally feasible for a lot of people.
I mean, $25 for a drop inthat's pretty expensive.
(31:54):
So I think, yeah, I've, I'vereally worked on, on doing that
and giving it away for free.
Like if someone asks me to do an event,I really try to meet them with what they
can afford rather than like blowing themout of the water or not charging at all.
There was a period of timewhen the pandemic hit.
I did for the public school systems.
(32:15):
I did like a monthly mindfulness.
For the entire county and it wasonly a five minute mindfulness AC
exercise, but it's like looking tobe able to do those, those types of
things I think is really important.
Yeah.
It feels like your, your work isjust so rooted in all the work
(32:37):
that you're doing rooted in this.
Just really being connected withourselves, being connected with
our emotions and our processingof things and our bodies.
And there, I think is such an empowermentin feeling and understanding our
emotions, our thoughts, our bodies, andended always being a work in progress.
(33:00):
You never like reach a pointof full understanding, but that
growing is just so empowering and.
Oh, I just think it's really beautiful.
Mm.
I love that
Props to you.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And I, and I love that what you saidthere, because both yoga and therapy
teach people that they can become whatI call the great mediator of their life.
(33:25):
And that is an empowering placeto realize, like, for example,
in a yoga class that you getto rest, when you want to.
That's pretty like powerful.
I get to make a decision.
Or how about I'm gonnapush myself to a limit.
Wow.
Look at the resiliency I have.
Or like the strength dittoto a therapy session.
(33:45):
Like you are the great mediator.
Like people are almost shocked.
Like, well, you're telling me Ican set a boundary with someone or.
I'm able to like speak up andit's normal to feel this way.
Like yeah.
Like you have the ability to pull backor push forward, like, you know, so I
think such a good, good reframe or whatyou just brought up is like, it is an
(34:07):
empowering space, yoga and going totherapy because you really find yourself
in the process and deconstruct whateveryone else has told you about yourself.
To really discover who you are.
Yeah.
And I, I love that with both there it'sindividual work, it's an individual
(34:29):
practice, but you're not in therapy alone.
You've always got your therapist.
if you're in therapy and with yoga,obviously a practice you can do alone,
but so often is done in group spaces.
Yes.
Yes.
And so I just, a, a general conceptI love is when our individual work.
Impacts our community becauseit impacts how we're showing up.
(34:53):
Yes.
And how we are relatingto people and how we are.
Moving through our world.
And I think you, you've probably heardthe quote, like no, man is an island.
Maybe.
What I really love recently, one ofmy mentors told me was I don't have
mirrors in my studio that I'm usingright now, either because you know,
(35:14):
that's a distraction and we don't need'em really, a lot of yoga teachers
are gonna tell you they're necessary.
They are not a good yoga instructorwill correct your posture.
You don't need a mirror, but oneof my mentors told me recently
that mirrors don't teach you reallyanything that mirrors show people
what they already see, what teachesyou, something is other people.
(35:37):
And that's why, like you said, Practicingin a collective, like a yoga class.
It's, it's almost more powerful togo to a communal class because you're
gonna learn a lot about yourself andother people just by experiencing that.
Rather than you're practicing at homeby yourself in front of your, with
your Peloton guy, or like likewhateverthe case is, which is totally great
(35:59):
too, if people are doing that.
But I think that's a goodreminder is there's so much power
and connection and community.
Even though you're right.
We're doing this individual work.
We still need each other to grow.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
I'm gonna be chewing on that mirror.
I know
that mirror.
That's a good one, right?
Yeah.
(36:20):
That is a good one.
yeah.
Well I would, I just, for anyonelistening, who's feeling inspired
or encouraged or interested.
Kind of engaging with any of thethoughts that you've just shared more.
I'm wondering if you have anybooks, podcast, experiences,
resources that you would recommend.
(36:40):
Yeah.
So I definitely, I can link youto my personal website, which
has a ton of blogs on there.
Please do.
Which is just my name.
And then I also have an Instagramthat is just Jared yoga.
And then we do a podcast, afriend of mine called beyond the.
And it, season two comes out October6th and it's comes out every Thursday
(37:04):
and it's yoga meets life podcasts.
So it's, we take these concepts fromthe practice of yoga, but we translate
them into like normal people life.
Like how do I use these at workand how do I take this concept to.
Navigate struggle in my own life.
So check out beyond the matwhich is on Spotify and apple.
And then there are two booksthat I would reference to people.
(37:27):
I will err, on the first one, the firstone's called the Yamas and the Niyamas.
It's by Deborah Adel and it's oneof her only books that she's written
and it's essentially how to treat.
And how to treat other people.
And it gives you 10, 10 components, almostlike the 10 commandments to a degree.
(37:48):
But super relatable, easy read thatwill probably change your life.
And then if people are looking forpurpose and they're not sure what their
purpose is, the best book I've ever readwas the four desires by Rod Stryker.
And that will help you figure outkind of your, your navigation.
(38:08):
Beautiful.
We will put all of those in thedescription for people who are interested.
Well, I wanna close outwith the question we asked.
Yes.
All of our guests.
You already mentioned the importance ofawareness, but what does that process
of awareness to action mean to you?
Yeah, that was a big question by the way.
So I was like looking at it and as it'snear the end, I'm like, well, obviously
(38:30):
the more we're aware of aspects ofour life, the more that we're capable
of changing them or making efforts to.
But the process, that's the hard part.
So I think the process of awarenessto action starts with a commit.
So you're aware of something you haveto commit to a process, which is where
(38:51):
a lot of people start is a commitment,but then where people get hung up is
breaking the surface and putting in thework and the effort to move into action.
And what I would would leave people withis you don't have to be unafraid to take.
(39:12):
You have to be willing to beafraid, but to do it anyway.
So I think for people to say awarenessto action, to me means the commitment
and then being willing to takefear with you as you step into the
effort that you need to, to changewhatever circumstance you have.
And then if you're lucky,you'll get insight, you'll
(39:33):
learn something in the process.
And if not, you'll just, youknow, repeat and then you'll
have the opportunity again.
Yes.
Yes.
I love that idea of havingthe opportunity again.
Well, thank you so much for being here.
I, I am taking much from this well, Ifeel like I'll be thinking about a lot
(39:54):
of this later tonight and this week.
So I'm just, I'm grateful forthe work that you're doing to.
Help people find the tools thatwork for them to encourage that.
And it sounds like a lot ofdifferent spaces and a lot of
different areas in the community.
I think that's really special.
(40:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thanks for being here.
Thanks for having me on.
Jared.
(00:00):
Welcome to the podcast.
Hi there.
Let's just jump right into things.
Let's have, you start with tellingour listeners about yourself and the
work you do and the path you took to
get here.
So yeah, my name's Jared Rowan.
I am a psychotherapist and yoga instructorin the ocean city, Maryland area.
(00:24):
I've been doing it for about 14 years now.
So I've been a psychotherapistfor about 14 and then a yoga
instructor for about a decade.
But practicing yoga forabout 14 years as well.
And kind of the path that led mehere I was pretty, I'm a pretty
(00:45):
transparent person, so just through myown childhood and upbringing, I had
childhood anxiety and O C D as a child.
Not like horribly bad, but itdefinitely impacted my life.
And I also grew up with a sibling that hadsome addiction and mental health issues.
And then my father is also a therapist.
(01:08):
So there was a lot of, kind of,of, of influence in driving me this
direction to become a therapist.
And then the yoga just kind of naturallyhappened when I moved to ocean city.
Oddly enough, I was sharing an office.
With a case manager and she happenedto be a yoga instructor and she's
(01:29):
like, you gotta come try yoga.
Like it's really great for, you know,stress and all that type of stuff.
So I just started doing it.
And then from there I got my 200hour certification finished my 300
hour hour certification, and I'mnow doing a third certification and
actually got to travel to India aswell for a part of the training.
(01:51):
So that's kind of the path thathas brought me where I'm at today.
Purely out of curiosity.
I think it's really interestingwhen people go into oftentimes
helping professions thattheir parents are also in.
Yes.
I feel like you see a lot ofpeople who are teachers, because
a parent was a teacher or a doctorbecause a parent was a doctor.
I'm curious what that has been likefor you to seen it when you were
(02:14):
young and to make it your own now.
So my story, I guess, is pretty,pretty, will not make your point.
A little bit, but my dadwas super boundary oriented.
So I actually didn't hear a lotabout what he did growing up.
It was a pretty intensive job.
I mean, he was working at like, psycHospitals when they were still, you
(02:38):
know, around and pretty regularly.
So he did not talk about work a whole lot.
But my uncle was also a hypnotictherapist and he's written a few
books he's since passed away.
But I don't know that itplayed like a huge, huge role.
It was more, I've always had this driveto as cliche as it is like to, to help
(03:00):
others or to like provide servitude.
And I was originally going to schoolto, to do like premed and physical
therapy and I just had an amazing.
Child psychology professor thatI just like fell in love with and
was like, oh my gosh, I totallyhave to, I have to do this.
So I switched.
I have, I actually have a BA orbachelor's degree in biology.
(03:23):
Which is pretty funny.
I was the only science major,my entire grad program.
But yeah, so it's alittle bit of a different.
Different way.
And I think,
yeah, you found your own way.
Yeah,
that's good.
I also had a child psychology professorin college who I just, I was like, I'm
not, I don't wanna do what she does,but I wanna be just like her, whatever
(03:46):
We didn't go to the same college.
Did we?
No,
I don't think so, but
oh, okay.
Unless professor was atJMU, I don't think so.
yeah.
Frostburg.
So the first time we spoke,you specifically mentioned the
difference between catharsis anddoing the actual work in therapy.
And I just wanna jump right into thatbecause I found it really interesting.
(04:07):
And I have been thinking about it a lot.
Since you first mentioned it.
So can you just speak more to
that?
Yeah.
I really love this question orthis thought or this pondering
it's like for, for people thatdon't know for the listeners that
don't know, like what is catharsis?
I think that's a good place just tostart, but you know, as we talk about
therapy, Part of therapy is catharsis,but then we're gonna talk about kind
(04:30):
of direction I've moved in and in theprocess, but catharsis is really just the
purging or like releasing of emotions tohopefully offer some sense of renewal,
restoration, spiritual healing, andcatharsism is really like, I always
describe it as like, when you take a.
(04:52):
Like a big sigh.
Like that's what acathartic experience is.
It's like an unloading and thatis part of a therapeutic process.
However we really want to moveinto not making that the only part
of, of the therapeutic process.
So like and I learned this actuallythrough yoga is one of my teachers had
(05:12):
said like, it's so cliche to say, butlike letting go, if you've ever been to
a yoga class or just like in general,you probably hear such lingo about.
You just gotta let it go.
You gotta move on.
And one of my teachers told me, whichI loved is you should never tell anyone
to let go if they don't have the tools,techniques to deal with the letting go.
(05:37):
So I think that's wherethis movement from.
Yes, catharsism is important.
And like the processing is the, is partof the therapeutic process, but it's
only the beginning, the real work become.
After the Cathar.
Does that make sense to kind of get
yeah, yeah.
Started
absolutely.
(05:58):
Absolutely.
I think something, I just we'll talkmore about stigma, I'm sure in this
conversation, but I think that there'sa really beautiful push in a lot
of spaces to reduce stigma around.
Seeking counseling going to therapy.
Yes.
Checking in on one's mental health.
But I, I think sometimes thoseconversations stay very surface level and
(06:23):
we're like, everyone should go to therapy.
Yes.
And it's like, okay, great.
But like maybe I don't know anyone inmy life whose been to therapy and I
don't really know what that looks like.
So now it's a daunting thingand maybe I won't pursue it.
So I think talking about the toolsand the attitudes that someone can have
when pursuing counseling and tryingto do the work is really important.
(06:47):
Yeah, and I, yeah.
And you make a really good point.
Like you don't even, and maybe thisis a misconception, you don't even
have to know why that you're there.
Like sometimes I, and I really lovewhen people are like, you know,
I'm just feeling a little lost.
Like, I don't even knowwhy I'm here today.
And I'm like, well,you're in the right place.
Like my job is to helpyou figure that out.
So for now it's just coming and chattingand like getting to know your story.
(07:11):
And I think that's what we really need tofocus on is we all have a story to tell.
We all have a narrative.
And it's so funny because.
So many of us love movies andbooks and, you know, the hero's
journey and like all these things.
And I think people fail to realizethat they have that within themselves.
(07:32):
And the processing of thatstory can be where you start.
It doesn't have to be like, Iself-identify like I have an
anxiety disorder or I'm depressed,or I've had a really bad thing
happen to me that I can't get over.
It can just be, you know, I, I wantto figure out my direction or I have
(07:55):
a lot of people coming and they'relike, I'm trying to figure out purpose.
Like, and I think those are not likeeasy questions by any means, but
entry ways into like figuring outif there are deeper steps, you know,
I really want people to realize.
You don't have to have, like, I'm sureyou've heard the term big T little T
(08:17):
trauma, like, you know, like you don'thave to have trauma to come to therapy.
It can just be.
I almost like thinking of it, like Ihave a pattern or a habit, and I'm just
curious about, and I want to know why Ikeep repeating this pattern or this habit.
And, and the funny one I always giveis like, you know, women who date
the same bad boys over and over.
(08:38):
And they're like, why am I datingthis, type of man, you know?
But it can be something like, ifyou're a perfectionistic, if you're a
procrastinator, like it can be these.
Not super deep.
Of course, I welcome the deep discussionsas well, but I just think there's
so much benefit from just processingthrough what your life has been thus
(09:00):
far, if that makes a lot of sense.
Absolutely.
And I feel like you know, sometimes.
I think sometimes it's hard tonotice patterns within ourselves,
but there are other patterns thatare pretty obvious and it's like,
okay, I see that this is happening.
I can identify the pattern, but beyondthat, I like really do not know right.
(09:20):
How to help myself.
And that's okay.
It's it's good to have a buddy
yes.
To help you
and well, and that's like, you maketwo really, really nice points is you
have to think societal conditioning.
So like you said, like some peoplearen't even self aware, which
awareness is the first goal of therapy.
Is to be, be able to be self-aware andwe can talk, there's like four main goals
(09:44):
to therapy, but the first one is whenpeople become in perspective, I'm like,
yes, they, they like they can identify.
But you made a really good pointabout like people not really knowing
what their patterns or habits.
Are.
And I think a lot of that has to do withthe I'm gonna generalize here because
in, in the work that I've done, themajority of people are what I call like
(10:06):
rug sweepers, which is like, when thingshappen, they sweep it under the rug and
many families function in this mentality.
So then as adults, we also function like.
We're like very unawareactually, as, as people.
And I always used to jokewith people, like there are
tons of bumpy rugs in America.
Like people are not, you know, like peopleare not dealing with their stuff or even
(10:30):
able to recognize that they have stuff.
Like I will have people that are cryingand I will ask them why they're crying.
They cannot.
Like that, that emotional experience tolike their reaction or like a thought.
So I think you make a really good point.
Like people just aren't ableto identify it because they've
(10:51):
been conditioned not to.
And I also love the point you made abouta buddy and I would love to like, talk
about that more because I have so manypeople that say, well, I don't think I
need a therapist because I have a friend.
And I'm like, well, here's the thing.
Friends are biased peopleas much as they love you.
(11:12):
And as much as they're going to tell you,they're gonna be straight up with you.
They have a stake in arelationship with you.
It's more helpful to have a nonbiasedformal relationship with someone that's
gonna call you out on your stuff.
So I think that's a reallyimportant point to point out.
(11:32):
Is like with my, myclients and my patients.
I care about them deeply, but I amnot friends with them, you know?
And, and I think that's important tokind of point out there is a difference
between going to your friend for supportand working on yourself in therapy.
Absolutely.
There's also legal parametersto confidentiality.
(11:55):
Your
yes.
Therapist is not going to your otherfriend and being like, oh my God, you
will not believe what Lucy told me.
right, right.
That will never happen.
and you know, we're not supposed totell our friends, our deep dark things.
Mm-hmm
, you know, like that, that's more for us to pro like Carl Young, like a therapist.
I don't know if you're familiar, buthe talks a lot about the unconscious.
(12:18):
And there's some thingsthat we don't share.
And that's why so often people evenlie in therapy, you know, because it's
kind of part of the process, but ourdeepest, darkest is not things that we
tell our partners even, or our friends.
It may be, but it's, it's for us toreally work through, to like, determine
what we wanna do with that experience.
(12:41):
And yes, confidentiality is huge.
I mean, you're, you're protected.
It's one of the safest environmentsfor you to be yourself and to not be
judged, which I think isn't always likefriends wanna say they don't judge, but
sometimes that does happen amongst thegroup where in a therapeutic setting,
I just have had so many people like, ohmy God, like I just don't feel judged.
(13:04):
I feel really like supported.
So I think that's important also.
Yeah.
And the safety you mentioned is key too.
You know, same thing yousaid before, like to.
To talk about these thingswithout the right, or to let
it go without the right tools.
Like you said before, is, isnot always safe or healthy.
(13:25):
So to talk about it with a friend, likeif you're trying to dig into those really
deep, dark things that you need to workthrough with a friend, it might not be a
safe way to do it because they don't havethe training or the tools for that kind of
yes.
Care.
And that's not to say.
You know, that community is not helpfuland that we don't need relationships.
(13:46):
I, I never want that to, to sound likethat, but to really unpack those things,
you need a professional.
Yeah, you totally do.
And you and I used to say, as Iwas training therapist, Like trauma
work is con and again, I'm trying toavoid these terminology, but trauma
or exp, I like adverse experiences.
(14:06):
You have to really be trained to dealwith that because if you unpack it,
you have to package it back in thebox within the hour, and then you
want the people to come back to, tocontinue to work through their, their.
Adverse experiences or their traumas.
And it does take a skillto be able to do that.
And like you said, it's not sayingcommunity and friends, aren't in
essential part of our, our process.
(14:29):
But they're not , something that we canrely on for change, I guess, is like, we
want to have, as we say, like these toolsand techniques for change, like, like,
like if we're disclosing to a friend,some, some big thing that happened to.
Us, but what about after thatthen what, where do we go?
Like, what if we just word vomit or as thekids are calling and I'm learning now as
(14:52):
trauma dumping this is like a new termthat, that gen Z is teaching me, but
like, once you disclose all of that, what,like, don't, you want to be able to make
sure you have tools and techniques to likeregulate the experience after, because
it's not just like a one and done thing.
Oftentimes you say it, and then your,your mind kind of is with it a little bit.
(15:15):
And if you don't have the tools andtechniques you're going to potentially
spiral outta control or which I thinkis a really good thing, which maybe
we'll talk more about later is like,you're gonna use emotions to make
decisions and believe it or not, we don'twanna use emotions to make decisions.
So I think that's also like really,really good point to, to mention
(15:36):
absolutely.
We mentioned stigma before.
I love to talk about, and whenwe talk about it all the time
yeah.
On this show, but it just isalways important and always
relevant and will be for as long.
Stigma exists around mentalhealth and mental healthcare.
Yes.
So I just would love to hear whatit's looked like for you to address
(15:59):
stigma in your life and in your work.
Oh my gosh.
You're right.
It's like almost like an overdone topic.
Right.
But it's never overdone becauseit's still relevant, but I
totally get what you're saying.
So this is the, I guess.
Like trying to formulate like,like mental health stigma.
(16:20):
We all know that talkingabout our problems.
You know, we tend not to do it as Imentioned earlier, because we've been
conditioned not to do it already.
There's stigma.
We also imply quite a bit in societythat you should be able to fix yourself.
Which is partially tr true.
That doesn't mean you don't have mentorsand teachers to help you along the
(16:41):
way, which we leave out quite a bit.
So I think that's a bigpiece of the stigma.
And then you add on culturalsocioeconomic, spiritual
influences that teach you.
For example, like men, men are notgoing to therapy as much as women.
(17:01):
Which is a really unfortunate thing.
The majority of my caseload is female.
I probably have, I probably see 70 people.
Maybe I have 10 men, if that,so the stigma of you don't
talk about your feelings.
You know, you keep them inside.
I think that is a, almost asocietal programmatic issue.
(17:23):
So without.
Going that other route of stigma.
I think it's just to point outthat we've almost been conditioned
to, to not talk about these.
And I, I, I know you probably knowthis Casey, but like the more you
talk about it, the more you reduce thestigma and the more that you own it.
And you're like, oh my gosh.
You're like me.
Like when I tell people, by theway I go to therapy, oh my God, a
(17:45):
therapist that goes to therapy, like,you know, it almost relieves people
or like makes them feel relatable.
Like because someone who'ssaying I'm trained to deal
with an emotional experience.
I can't always deal with my own.
Or like you said earlier, I can't alwaysidentify my own pattern because I live in
(18:05):
this body, but it's like, I I'm kind ofrobotic and just going through day to day.
So I think that's just somethingI wanna point out as like stigma,
I think is just a systematic.
Societal programmatic issue.
And I think, like I said, theonly way to reduce it is to
talk about it and normalize it.
Because I feel the, how do I describe it?
(18:30):
People who have been to therapy tendto be more resilient, adaptable people.
Like they really know how to Navigatechallenge and struggle rather than
like waiting your whole life tohave that really hard struggle.
And then you completely self distract.
Like I kind of wanna have all thetools in my like little nap sack
(18:51):
for like when the bad things happen.
Not saying they will, but I'mable to pull on experience.
So I think if we relabeled mentalhealth as like almost as much
as we prioritize physical healthand I'm sure you've heard the.
Comparison over and over,but like, it's interesting.
Like we would never discouragea diabetic to stop insulin.
(19:14):
But we're not like encouragingpeople to seek counsel or direction.
So it's like, you know, becausepeople believe so much in like
mental health is a, is a choiceor like a self in inflicted thing.
When.
There's so many studies behindhow that is not true, that it is a
(19:34):
genetic disorder, but it's also anepigenetic disorder, meaning that your
environment changes your genetic code.
Like this isn't like magical talking.
This is like research based.
So I think the more we can shiftthat, and I think schools are doing
that a lot better in colleges andit seems like people are getting at
(19:58):
least being more open to therapy.
I think then like whenI started 14 years ago.
So I think it's there.
Yeah.
I think there's a flexibility of it.
That's growing of, of seeing it asa health need and we have different
health needs throughout our lives.
As we go through different stages, youdon't, you know, you don't necessarily.
(20:19):
Get started with therapy and then utilizeit every week for the rest of your life.
Yes.
You know?
Yes.
It might be like, I reallyneed this in this season.
And then there's a time whereyou're like, you know, this is not
as helpful to me as it used to be.
So you take some time offand then it's time again.
That's, that's what my own therapeutic,you know, journey has looked like.
(20:39):
And it's great.
Yeah,
my life changes.
Yeah.
And I think that's really important.
Like I've been in and out of therapy10 years and there were moments
when I went once a week, there weremoments when I didn't go for two
years, there was a moment like,holy crap, I'm getting married.
I need to process this.
That was situational.
There was the pandemic, which I waslike, probably need to talk to someone
(21:01):
about working from home and how smallmy apartment is with my partner.
Like there's, there'stons of, of you're right.
It's kind of.
You don't have to utilize it over andover and over in a good therapist will
be okay with you saying you need a break.
I have had the experience I'vehad three therapists and one really
didn't like, want me to go on a break?
(21:22):
And it really rubbed me the wrong way.
And ultimately I did seek a differentprovider because I do believe it's
self-driven the most therapists will.
You know what, let me know when youneed me in the future, if you need me.
So I want people to knowthat you are in control.
It's not like somebody's going thereto like, keep you around for years.
(21:43):
Some people do stay for a whileor tap in and out, but I think
that's important to, to recognize.
I wanted to mention an analogythat I thought of when you
were talking about how yeah.
I can help myself to a degree.
I just finished like a verysweet lighthearted summer read.
(22:05):
It's called heavy Drake startsover and I'll include it in
the description for anyone.
I wanna give the author credit, but Idon't remember her name, but at that,
toward the end of the book, there'sa therapist talking to a, a woman.
Whose Very hesitant about therapy.
And she's saying like, I reallyjust feel like I should be able
to figure this out on my own.
And the therapist is like, did youknow, you can pull out your own teeth.
(22:29):
Like if you wanted to do a toothextraction on yourself, you could, you
could get the tools and do it, but itprobably wouldn't be very safe and
it might end up being very unpleasant.
So it could be helpful to havesomeone who knows what they're
doing to extract your tooth.
What a lovely metaphor.
I know.
I know that to be true, but in thatvisualization, I was like, oh my gosh.
(22:53):
wow.
How beautiful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, why wouldn't you go the easierroute that like, I don't even know
what to do with these emotions.
Like this is a person who'slike an emotion expert.
Like, let me see if they, if they can andthey will, they'll be able to hold space
for you to validate you to help reframe.
What we call cognitive distortionsor inaccurate ways, ways of viewing
(23:17):
things like they're gonna have allthese skills that you're right.
You might get there, but probablya whole lot later or not at all.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
And you just keep adding to thatnap sack or tool belt that you're
talking about, you know, over timeyou when you're in therapy are.
(23:38):
Having these tools given to youand encouraged, and you're also
then taking those and you'reable to find your own tools.
It really is a, a collaborative.
Partnership when it's, whenit's the right therapeutic fit.
And I think that's importantfor people to know too.
Yeah.
And it's not like like you said,not all tools work for everyone.
(23:58):
Like believe it or not, onereally good tool is just breath.
And I know that's like, like even I wouldlike laugh at that, like, oh my God.
Just breathe.
Right.
But the reason we teach people thatis because it's a bigger concept.
It's like the ability to just breatheis slowing down your reactivity.
It's allowing your emotions to settle.
(24:20):
It's like something that you canfocus on that isn't that repeating
thought that you're having.
So it can be simple tools like breath.
It can be journaling.
Some people are adverse to that.
Again, it's not like one size fits all.
It can be exercise.
It can be meditation.
It can be prayer.
Art.
I mean, there's so, so manytools that people can utilize.
(24:44):
And again, some of them, like, it'sfunny because sometimes I'll have
people say, oh my God, I can't believeI'm paying you to tell me this.
Like, it'll be theseobvious kinds of things.
I had somebody do that a couple monthsago and I was like, well, what you
and your husband need to do is havea calendar on the fridge so that
you can see where your kids are.
And she.
Paying you a copay for this.
(25:05):
I'm like, yes.
I'm like you are, but it's well worth it.
Right?
Like so I think you're right.
Like, that's, that's agood point to make about.
Affecting those tools and figuringout which ones work with you, but
be willing to try each one at least.
Yes.
Yes.
Because oftentimes what we're workingthrough in therapy is not low stakes, but
(25:26):
the tools to try very low stakes, it isvery low stakes for me to try journaling
and realized this is not for me.
And then to not do it,like, what did that cost me?
Maybe the, the price of a journalor a piece of paper and a pencil.
Right.
You know, and what 20 minutes, like,
yeah.
(25:47):
And as therapists, Imean, not, not all, but.
I don't expect peopleto do their homework.
So we use the toll of resistanceas a toll of treatment.
So when people come in,like it just happened today.
I had a session, the telehealthsession and she's like, oh my
God, I didn't do my homework.
And I was like, well, that's okay.
Let's like, talk about like whatprevented you from doing it?
(26:09):
So know that like the expectation isto just have the dialogue around it
or give it a try and then go like,oh my God, Jared, I hated journaling.
Like that was actually painful for me.
And then we explore that a bit more, butthen maybe we try something different
and I love that you said low stakes,cuz that is like, yeah, it's low stakes.
(26:30):
So
yeah one tool.
Slash practice slash is probably a lotof other ways you could refer to it.
Yeah.
That, that you love and arepassionate about is yoga.
And I want to make sure that wetalk about your mobile yoga studio.
Yes,
please.
Yes.
And just me first mentioning, Ialways like to preface this yoga
(26:52):
is not a religion, so I always wantpeople to know that and that yoga
is a lifestyle and that you canhave a religion and practice yoga.
So yoga is really there's actuallyeight limbs to yoga and a lot of people
don't know this, but the only onethat is physical, there's only one.
All the other ones are learn are abouthow to treat other people, how to treat
(27:15):
yourself breath, work, meditation,focus, the ability to surrender.
And then there's the physical practice.
So I want people to know like,oh my gosh, that's all in yoga.
Yes.
If you go to a good yogapractitioner, you will get all that,
which it's kind of therapeutic.
It's not kind of, it is therapeutic.
(27:36):
But I have a mobile yoga studio.
I worked for a traditionalstudio for about nine years.
And I just wanted to, I don't wannasay like, We had different integrity.
But my, my vision changed fromwhen it started to where I am now.
(27:56):
Like it was a very fitness orientedspace and I was totally into that.
But I've moved in more of this directionof like applying these tools, even in
yoga, like giving people breath, work towork on, or having a discussion about.
Mediating two, two qualitiesin life, like effort and rest.
(28:20):
How do you do that?
And I wanted to have a space wherewe could practice physically, but
there were also be these moments ofnot kind of like discussion or what
we call Darma talk in the class.
So I kind of just said, I'mgonna do this mobile yoga studio.
I'm gonna do popups at different places.
(28:41):
I'm not gonna have likean actual physical place.
So I've been doing that.
It'll be a year in Januaryand it's called home evolve.
And it's actually part of themain physical space is in the
therapy office that I use.
There's a huge wellness room.
And then I do lots of events throughoutthe area and teacher training, training
(29:03):
people to be teacher yoga teachers andtons and tons of workshops as well.
I would love to talk more aboutwhat you're doing with it in
the community, because I have.
Noticed a, what I think is a reallypositive shift in at least in my city.
(29:25):
Yoga becoming a little bit moreaccessible, like not just being within
the walls of a studio with a veryexpensive monthly membership fee, but
like project yoga, that's done in apark and there's a recommended or a
suggested donation, but is not necessary.
Or just like
yes,
community events where it's come one,come all, like, bring your own mat.
(29:47):
Let's see what happens.
What, what do you have to say about.
Oh, I love that.
Like, accessibility.
So that's another part is the studio I'veI've like created is an inclusive studio.
So even the promotional images are allbodies, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
All people.
(30:08):
And I really wanted to make yogaaccessible because it is a, it's
intimidating to a lot of people.
So the yoga that I teach nowis not this power yoga, which
I am avoiding using this term.
And it, and it's, it's, it's adifferent style at this point.
And then I also offer apay what you can method.
(30:29):
So I, I set a price, but if you can't.
Hey, you can't like, but youstill can come and practice.
And I'm fortunate enough to do thatbecause it isn't my main living.
And then monthly.
I give away donations to localcharities and global charities.
So we do like yoga classes thatare called karma classes, which I'm
(30:52):
sure Westerners are familiar with.
Oh, you're karma, but it's a little bitdifferent in, in the yoga philosophy.
It's not like, oh my God, if you dosomething bad, something bad will happen.
It's more like karma is likekind of like giving of energy.
And in return, you'recreating more positive energy.
(31:12):
It may not even be personal to yourexperience, but the collective.
So once a month, I will do classes wherewe donate for like the humane society
or, you know, believe in tomorrow or alot of these different organizations.
So I think that's alsoimportant and, and they're free.
(31:34):
So I have some people that come toclass that don't have memberships.
I think that's reallyimportant because you're right.
White, it's been kind of whitewasheda little bit, you know, when it
came over here and you're right.
It became this thing that isn'treally feasible for a lot of people.
I mean, $25 for a drop inthat's pretty expensive.
(31:54):
So I think, yeah, I've, I'vereally worked on, on doing that
and giving it away for free.
Like if someone asks me to do an event,I really try to meet them with what they
can afford rather than like blowing themout of the water or not charging at all.
There was a period of timewhen the pandemic hit.
I did for the public school systems.
(32:15):
I did like a monthly mindfulness.
For the entire county and it wasonly a five minute mindfulness AC
exercise, but it's like looking tobe able to do those, those types of
things I think is really important.
Yeah.
It feels like your, your work isjust so rooted in all the work
(32:37):
that you're doing rooted in this.
Just really being connected withourselves, being connected with
our emotions and our processingof things and our bodies.
And there, I think is such an empowermentin feeling and understanding our
emotions, our thoughts, our bodies, andended always being a work in progress.
(33:00):
You never like reach a pointof full understanding, but that
growing is just so empowering and.
Oh, I just think it's really beautiful.
Mm.
I love that
Props to you.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And I, and I love that what you saidthere, because both yoga and therapy
teach people that they can become whatI call the great mediator of their life.
(33:25):
And that is an empowering placeto realize, like, for example,
in a yoga class that you getto rest, when you want to.
That's pretty like powerful.
I get to make a decision.
Or how about I'm gonnapush myself to a limit.
Wow.
Look at the resiliency I have.
Or like the strength dittoto a therapy session.
(33:45):
Like you are the great mediator.
Like people are almost shocked.
Like, well, you're telling me Ican set a boundary with someone or.
I'm able to like speak up andit's normal to feel this way.
Like yeah.
Like you have the ability to pull backor push forward, like, you know, so I
think such a good, good reframe or whatyou just brought up is like, it is an
(34:07):
empowering space, yoga and going totherapy because you really find yourself
in the process and deconstruct whateveryone else has told you about yourself.
To really discover who you are.
Yeah.
And I, I love that with both there it'sindividual work, it's an individual
(34:29):
practice, but you're not in therapy alone.
You've always got your therapist.
if you're in therapy and with yoga,obviously a practice you can do alone,
but so often is done in group spaces.
Yes.
Yes.
And so I just, a, a general conceptI love is when our individual work.
Impacts our community becauseit impacts how we're showing up.
(34:53):
Yes.
And how we are relatingto people and how we are.
Moving through our world.
And I think you, you've probably heardthe quote, like no, man is an island.
Maybe.
What I really love recently, one ofmy mentors told me was I don't have
mirrors in my studio that I'm usingright now, either because you know,
(35:14):
that's a distraction and we don't need'em really, a lot of yoga teachers
are gonna tell you they're necessary.
They are not a good yoga instructorwill correct your posture.
You don't need a mirror, but oneof my mentors told me recently
that mirrors don't teach you reallyanything that mirrors show people
what they already see, what teachesyou, something is other people.
(35:37):
And that's why, like you said, Practicingin a collective, like a yoga class.
It's, it's almost more powerful togo to a communal class because you're
gonna learn a lot about yourself andother people just by experiencing that.
Rather than you're practicing at homeby yourself in front of your, with
your Peloton guy, or like likewhateverthe case is, which is totally great
(35:59):
too, if people are doing that.
But I think that's a goodreminder is there's so much power
and connection and community.
Even though you're right.
We're doing this individual work.
We still need each other to grow.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
I'm gonna be chewing on that mirror.
I know
that mirror.
That's a good one, right?
Yeah.
(36:20):
That is a good one.
yeah.
Well I would, I just, for anyonelistening, who's feeling inspired
or encouraged or interested.
Kind of engaging with any of thethoughts that you've just shared more.
I'm wondering if you have anybooks, podcast, experiences,
resources that you would recommend.
(36:40):
Yeah.
So I definitely, I can link youto my personal website, which
has a ton of blogs on there.
Please do.
Which is just my name.
And then I also have an Instagramthat is just Jared yoga.
And then we do a podcast, afriend of mine called beyond the.
And it, season two comes out October6th and it's comes out every Thursday
(37:04):
and it's yoga meets life podcasts.
So it's, we take these concepts fromthe practice of yoga, but we translate
them into like normal people life.
Like how do I use these at workand how do I take this concept to.
Navigate struggle in my own life.
So check out beyond the matwhich is on Spotify and apple.
And then there are two booksthat I would reference to people.
(37:27):
I will err, on the first one, the firstone's called the Yamas and the Niyamas.
It's by Deborah Adel and it's oneof her only books that she's written
and it's essentially how to treat.
And how to treat other people.
And it gives you 10, 10 components, almostlike the 10 commandments to a degree.
(37:48):
But super relatable, easy read thatwill probably change your life.
And then if people are looking forpurpose and they're not sure what their
purpose is, the best book I've ever readwas the four desires by Rod Stryker.
And that will help you figure outkind of your, your navigation.
(38:08):
Beautiful.
We will put all of those in thedescription for people who are interested.
Well, I wanna close outwith the question we asked.
Yes.
All of our guests.
You already mentioned the importance ofawareness, but what does that process
of awareness to action mean to you?
Yeah, that was a big question by the way.
So I was like looking at it and as it'snear the end, I'm like, well, obviously
(38:30):
the more we're aware of aspects ofour life, the more that we're capable
of changing them or making efforts to.
But the process, that's the hard part.
So I think the process of awarenessto action starts with a commit.
So you're aware of something you haveto commit to a process, which is where
(38:51):
a lot of people start is a commitment,but then where people get hung up is
breaking the surface and putting in thework and the effort to move into action.
And what I would would leave people withis you don't have to be unafraid to take.
(39:12):
You have to be willing to beafraid, but to do it anyway.
So I think for people to say awarenessto action, to me means the commitment
and then being willing to takefear with you as you step into the
effort that you need to, to changewhatever circumstance you have.
And then if you're lucky,you'll get insight, you'll
(39:33):
learn something in the process.
And if not, you'll just, youknow, repeat and then you'll
have the opportunity again.
Yes.
Yes.
I love that idea of havingthe opportunity again.
Well, thank you so much for being here.
I, I am taking much from this well, Ifeel like I'll be thinking about a lot
(39:54):
of this later tonight and this week.
So I'm just, I'm grateful forthe work that you're doing to.
Help people find the tools thatwork for them to encourage that.
And it sounds like a lot ofdifferent spaces and a lot of
different areas in the community.
I think that's really special.
(40:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thanks for being here.
Thanks for having me on.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.