We are ending the year with a revisit to our first episode of 2022 by reposting our sit down with Shanza Isom to discuss holistic well-being, mindfulness, and self-care. We think this conversation is the PERFECT way to start January, at a time when we’re all considering how we can better care for ourselves, and others, in the year ahead.
Shanza Isom is an assistant professor in the James Madison University department of social work, where she teaches undergraduate courses and directs field instruction. Shanza is also a facilitator and trainer, with expertise in areas of mindfulness and holistic well-being. Shanza trains and teaches educators, parents and those in helping professions in the incorporation of mindfulness in their personal and professional lives.
Shanza’s Contact Information: isomsa@jmu.edu
The views and opinions expressed on Awareness 2 Action are those of the guests and host and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Prevention Department or Northwestern Community Services.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Casey Dwyer (00:03):
Welcome to Awareness to Action, a podcast brought to
you by the Northwestern CommunityServices Board Prevention Department.
I'm your host Casey, a social worker andprevention specialist here in Virginia.
Our podcast goal is to promotewellness through conversation,
connection, and action.
We hope each episode willleave you feeling inspired and
motivated to look for ways to getinvolved in your own community.
(00:30):
Welcome back to Awareness toAction and Happy New Year.
Today we're joined by Shaza Isam.
Shaza is an assistant professor in theJames Madison University Department
of Social Work, where she teachesundergraduate courses and directs field
instruction shaza is also a facilitatorand trainer with expertise in areas
of mindfulness and holistic wellbeing.
Shaza trains and teaches educators,parents and those in helping professions
(00:54):
in the incorporation of mindfulness intheir personal and professional lives.
I know Shaza for my own time at J M Uwhen I was lucky enough to have her as
a professor, chance's, emphasis on thebenefits and beauty of holistic wellbeing.
Mindfulness and self-care are part ofthe formation of my own social work.
So I'm absolutely thrilled to have heron the show, and I'm excited to share
(01:16):
this episode at the start of the year.
A perfect time to begin orcontinue incorporating these
practices into our lives.
All right, Shaza, thanks forbeing on the podcast today.
Shanza Isom (01:27):
I'm excited to be here.
I've been looking forward toit for quite some time now.
So thanks for having me.
I have
too, and.
I'm just looking forward towhat we're gonna dive into.
I think it's gonna be really good.
Let's do it.
So let's start with you tellingour listeners about yourself, the
work you do in the community andthe path you took to get here.
(01:49):
Okay.
That's a big question.
So, , a little bit about myself.
, a social worker by profession.
, I've been, , practicing since receivingmy B S W, so that was back in 2002, so
it's been quite some time after some workin the community and getting my graduate
degree, , a little bit more work I.
Fell into honestly higher educationand teaching, which was exciting.
(02:12):
It was not a part of my plan necessarily.
, although I've always beeninterested in kind of meso
practice, , groups, facilitation,education, those sorts of things.
So it really aligned,I think, fairly well.
, what that has looked like forme outside of being a profess.
What that's looked like for me over theyears really, , is being engaged in the
community sort of on that level, right.
(02:33):
Any spaces where I could, , offeropportunities for workshops,
facilitations that are usually arounda specific topic in education, one of
my passions, , in addition to socialwork practice has been kind of holistic.
Well, Self-care, , wellnessin general, , mindfulness.
And so I've kind of lived this almostdouble life until I would say within the
(02:57):
last five years where they have, as Ilike to say, they've married each other.
, so prior to like the last five years,it's, you know, I was teaching.
. And then on the side, right on theside, I was doing all this other
work, , in the community where I sawthe connections, but there wasn't
really, , there wasn't a smooth orreally intentional connection on my end.
(03:19):
It was as people like tosay, your side hustle.
Right?
So it's kind of what I did on the sidebecause it filled me, I enjoyed it.
So if we're talking aboutwellbeing, right, and knowing what
fills you, what brings you joyand excitement that always has.
And so what I've beenable to do over the last.
Five years, you know, and thinkingabout intention is I've really put a
lot of time and energy into figuringout, okay, how do I bring these
(03:42):
two together in such a way that itdoesn't feel like double work for me?
, but really I think the biggestpart is they, in my mind, they
make perfect sense together, right?
And so when I think about what I'mteaching my students and what we know
about social practice and what we knowabout social justice and what we know
about working with people social workoperates from a similar perspective
(04:02):
and really looking at the whole person.
And so when I think about holisticwellbeing, that's what we're doing, right?
I mean, that's what we're talking about.
We're talking about the whole person.
What does that mean?
And so, . My journey has consisted ofkind of, you know, practicing teaching,
kind of doing this side stuff whereI've been a mindfulness instructor
through nonprofit enrichment.
(04:23):
Now I'm called the Inner work Center.
It was originally calledChrysalis Institute.
And I've done all my mindfulnesswork kind of on that side, right?
All of my holistic wellbeingstuff on that side.
And now since then, I've actually.
Started my own business, , and, whichhas been really exciting around that.
I am contracted in quite often tofacilitate, to serve as a keynote you
(04:45):
know, to do workshops, to do professionaldevelopment trainings, to do a one-time
kind of educational piece from being in.
School systems, which I love.
I like to say I, I love the childrenand I love to train the trainer.
I'm that person, right?
And so let me work with the teachers,let me work with the staff, let me work
with the parents, let me work with thepeople who are working with the people
and prepare them for the work, right?
(05:08):
That's really a passion of mine.
And so I've done a lot of work inthe community with teachers within
school systems, predominantly,honestly, in the Richmond area
because that's where I'm from.
I still commute to this area.
And so predominantly in thatarea, But also with small
businesses and organizations.
I've recently done some work withJunior League of Richmond, for example.
(05:28):
They just asked me to come back.
, the, , I can't think ofthe official name of it.
Oh, and I hate that.
I'm blanking on it.
It's not the League, VirginiaDistrict of Independent.
Colleges or League ofIndependent Colleges.
Can't remember the name of it.
Sorry, that I don't know it.
, but I just did some work with collegestudents who are, , in independent
colleges like Mary Baldwin, right.
, who are like Bridgewater, , whoare women in particular, right.
(05:51):
So young adults who are in thesecolleges and was a part of one
of their leadership institutes.
And, , provided some workshops oractually I was a speaker for their
last day around kind of this same.
What does it mean tolead mindfully, right?
And so I've done some work even here atJMU where I was akeynotefor the madison
(06:12):
Leads Conference on the same idea, right?
So kind of leading with intention, whatdoes mindful leadership mean, right?
And so when I think about that, Again,I see it being married and that a lot
of this work now is being done with thecollege students not just at J M U, right?
Other universities or other programsthat are working with college students.
I've implemented so much of this stuffinto my classes and how I approach my
(06:33):
students and how I approach teaching.
And then again, very much still outin the community where I'm contracted
in or asked to speak or provide.
And some of these are spaces where,Wouldn't naturally think that.
Fit.
But there's an interest in thetopic because we're all in a place
where we could use kind of somereflections, some guidance on what
(06:54):
does it mean to be well, right.
Especially in the midst, I think ofCovid because some of our responses
to that have likely changed.
So I would say that's how my journeyhas looked up until this point.
And as much of a nutshell as I could sayit in some of my work in the community,
I could go on and on, but I'll stopthere and if you would like for me
to add more I so could do that also.
Casey Dwyer (07:13):
Well, I'm just,
I love what you just saidabout training the trainers.
For the benefit of our listenersfor some context, Chanel was one of
my professors when I was at J M U.
And self-care was such a focusin our classes, in our courses.
at the time.
I remember thinking like, I knowthis is important, but we're really
(07:36):
talking about this a lot . Andyou know, that I'm in the field.
I am like, oh my gosh, thatwas so, so crucial to my
formation as a social worker.
I mean, I can't reallyemphasize that enough and.
I'm glad that you used that phrasingand highlighted that because training
(07:57):
the trainers is important and now
Shanza Isom (07:59):
training the trainers is important.
And for many of us who are working,I just did a workshop for those
who are in helping professions.
And I've since you've left, I'vecreated two classes, two electives.
Mindfulness is a wellness practiceand self-care for helping professions
because I feel like, and as you know,as you're out in practicing, right.
Real world now.
It is it's so crucial.
(08:19):
I think we hear the term self-careand we're like, ah, you know, it's
kind of we've talked about it somuch that it's slightly watered down.
And one of the things that I findinteresting about anybody who's
working with people and those in thehelping profession, especially those,
you know, social workers, nurses,teachers, we're seeing right now, right?
This is nothing new.
We know research has shown.
(08:40):
That the work that we do have an impacton our wellbeing that is not new.
Right.
That's something that'swe're all aware of it.
Right?
Burnout, compassion fatigue, vicarioustrauma, those things are not new.
The research is there.
Right.
And I think what we're slowly startingto realize now that we're in the middle
of a pandemic, I think other peopleare realizing how much people who
(09:00):
are in certain fields are impacted.
um, The work that they do by thedemand that's placed on them.
Right?
And we're not talking physicaldemand necessarily, right?
We're talking the emotionaland mental toll that it takes
to do some of this work.
And unfortunately, I feel like, although.
, there's probably nota social work student.
There's probably not a nursing studentor a teacher student, teaching student
who's not aware of the fact thatself-care is important for our field a
(09:24):
little differently maybe than others.
From a professional standpoint,personally, it's important
for all of us, right?
But professionally someof us are more at risk.
And so, although there's not a studentI would say who isn't aware of that,
I would then go so far as to sayis we don't teach it though, right?
Like we stress the importance.
and there's no realcontent that teaches one.
(09:47):
Okay, so what.
, I know that this is important.
I need to be aware of it.
That's very important.
I wanna think about this podcast, right?
Awareness to action.
Okay.
So what?
The awareness is wonderful, but ifwe're not doing anything with it or
we're not using that awareness, right?
In a very intentionalway to prepare students.
And that's the action piece.
, what does that look like then?
I think we're really, we'redoing our students a disservice.
(10:09):
Because the reality is what happensis most of us get into the field and
I'm not just talking social work.
We get into the field and we practicefor quite some time, and then we realize,
Oh, no.
Right.
. Yes.
I know that this stuff isimportant, but it's too late.
Like, I don't know, I don't knowhow to come back from this, right?
How do I pour into myself whenI'm so empty that I feel like I
(10:29):
need to leave the field, right?
Or I need to leave the job.
And so we don't provide the tools.
The awareness is important, butwithout the tools, we're just kind
of in this state of just awareness.
Which we know is.
That's one step that's one step.
And I think that we have, and I'm gonnastop after this because I will go for
(10:50):
a very long time once I mention this.
I think we have an ethical obligation.
To prepare students in the same, that sameway that we prepare you with skills and
that we prepare you with knowledge, right?
On other topics, I think that we have anethical obligation to prepare students
who are in these fields with the tools tobe well in order to continue this work.
(11:12):
And so I will stop right therebecause don't get me started on
an ethical allegation, Casey.
Okay.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna pause.
Casey Dwyer (11:20):
I think I would really to hear you speak more about ethical
obligation and what that means, becauseI think it's a really important concept.
So,
Shanza Isom (11:30):
yeah.
And, you know,
Casey Dwyer (11:31):
so, and you are willing to give the overview.
Well,
Shanza Isom (11:34):
so, so what I'll say, I guess and we can dig deep or stop after
this if we'd like, but since you'veopened the door a little wider, right.
I'm gonna just share a little bit more.
I'll just use social work for an example.
Right.
, we actually have a clause in our codeof ethics about professional self-care.
Most of my students are notaware of that until I mention it.
And if they are aware, they'renot aware of what it says.
Right?
(11:54):
And so if we have somethingthere, just like we have ethical
obligations for other things, right?
If we have a code of ethics thatwe're abiding by and students
are memorizing the values, right?
And they're memorizing all ofthese things, some of them can
tell you the preamble, right?
Like, all of this stuff.
Why aren't people aware of what is stated?
about professional self care, right?
And if we know that it's important enoughthat we've added this clause, why is that
(12:18):
not a part of our then curriculum, right?
If we're expecting people to abide by it,then we should have that inserted in such
a way that it's in the forefront, right?
And that it's prioritized.
And I would go so far as tosay it's not prioritized.
And that's across the profession, right?
It's not prioritized.
And so, you know, I feelthe ethical obligation.
(12:39):
to be well when we're workingwith other people, right?
That if we are not well, if we areunhealthy, and I'm not talking from a
physical standpoint, maybe that also,but I'm talking our whole self, right?
And so I'm talking mental,emotional, spiritual, and whatever
that means for you, right?
Social all of those components.
Make up you as a person, and if you'relacking in one or two of the areas, or
(13:00):
if you're unhealthy in one or two ofthe areas, it could very much impact.
It will impact how you show up, right?
It could then be detrimentalto the work that you do.
And so when we're li,when we're working with.
real people with lives who are, you know,we're talking vulnerable people, right?
Vulnerable populations.
We're working with children, right?
(13:21):
When we're working with people in need.
We're working in medical settings, right?
We're working in spaces where people arerelying on us to be our best self, right?
And so if we're not our best self,I feel that's an ethical.issue.
So that's what I'll say about
Casey Dwyer (13:36):
I just want it on record that I agree with.
Shanza Isom (13:37):
Can you not hear my passion?
Casey
. . Casey Dwyer: I think what you're saying about the prioritization of that, Really
ties to preparedness because, and thisis, I mean, this is something that we did
back in the day when I was in your class.
It's coming up with plans for ourself-care because you really just
(14:01):
don't have, when you get to the pointwhere you really desperately need that
self-care, hopefully you're not gettingto the point where it's desperate.
But when you are and you don't have a.
, there's no energy to tap intofor coming up with what works.
But if you have a, you know, a littleknowledge base at the ready of, here's
what I know I need and I know thatit changes from situation to situation
(14:25):
circumstance, I think that's huge.
And yeah,
I mean, well, let's think about it in this way when we're
working with people and you willunderstand this because of the work
that you do when you're working withpeople and you think about crises,
we always talk about a safety.
We also talk about, you know, in oursociety people are aware of these, of
the, of this language and we operatein this way within social work.
(14:46):
But when you think aboutprevention and intervention, right?
That's how I look at self-care.
That oftentimes when we're talkingabout self-care in our society,
we're talking about interventionwhen things have fallen apart.
what are you doing?
Right?
I like to think about it, andthis is where that radical
piece comes in for me, right?
It's not just managing in themidst of mess, which is how I
like to talk about it, right?
(15:08):
But how are we preventing some of that?
How are we caring for and prioritizingourselves with intention from the jump
to hopefully minimize those other spaces?
We're not gonna prevent thembecause we cannot predict.
. Right?
And so we can't pre,we can't prevent them.
However, we can work from a preventionlens and set ourselves up right?
(15:31):
In such a way that we minimize them orthat we're prepared in a different way or
that we're intervening earlier on, right?
And so all of those things make, which isagain why I talked about marrying these.
It makes perfect sense.
And.
We still have not, we still have notstepped into a place of incorporating
(15:52):
that with intention into curriculumor honestly with young kids.
Side note, but very much related.
Made a Facebook post yesterday.
The week before Thanksgiving.
I have a 15 year old theweek before Thanksgiving.
He's a sophomore.
He's really busy right now.
Right.
You know, he's in a college prep program.
He's in the, you know,advanced college academy.
So he's in all, you know, AP classes.
(16:14):
He plays tennis.
He's a girlfriend for the first time.
Right.
So he's trying to hang out with his.
put this new girlfriend in,trying to manage friends.
He's doing community service.
He's a lot going on.
He manages pretty well.
It's all stuff that he wants to do.
And this was the weekend beforeThanksgiving and he came to me, you know,
one night and he kind of climbed in mybed and he said mom, I'm overwhelmed.
and I said, you are?
(16:35):
And he said, yeah, right.
So nobody wants to hear that.
And he's like, you're 15.
You don't know overwhelmed yet.
And yet they do.
Right?
I'm overwhelmed.
And I said, what do you need, baby?
You know, he's like, I don'tknow, but like, like I'm
really like, I'm struggling.
I mean, in other words,he's like, I'm struggling.
And I said, . So I asked him againabout what he needed and he still,
he couldn't articulate that becausewe don't talk about this a lot.
(16:57):
And my kids, I've done this since theywere little and he's still struggling.
And I said, so let mepropose some things, right?
Because sometimes what we needis for people to give us ideas.
Self-care is very individual.
That's right.
It looks, it's individualized.
What I do, what you do is different,but when you don't know, Right.
It's helpful to hear at least someideas and then you can pick and
choose or you can try and taste right.
(17:18):
And so I gave some ideas.
I named a few things, you know andone of the things that I named,
it was like the third one down.
I said, or, you know, we canhave a skip day and you can
skip school and I can skip work.
And we can just hang out.
And he's like, let's do that.
And I said, okay.
And I said, well, one of the thingsthat I want you to remember, Elijah,
is when you're feeling things tothis level where he, I could see
(17:39):
him being a little emotional.
When you feel things to this level, it'simportant that you tend to it immediately.
So what's your schedule this week?
Let's not put Thanksgiving is next week.
So we often, and I say this to say,as adults, we often say, but I have
the holiday coming up, but I havethis coming up, or I have a day
off, or if I can do two more weeks,then I'm gonna take some time.
Well, the reality is I'moverwhelmed now in two weeks from.
(17:59):
it's gonna be 10 times worse.
So how do I, right.
And so we tend to put things offuntil we're so, and you know,
we're such in a bad place thatit takes more to recover from it.
So my thing is, this isimmediate, let's deal with it now.
And so we looked at a schedule and twodays later we took the day off, right?
And we went shopping.
And we went to Dave and Bustersand did the arcade and we ate,
(18:20):
and it was just the two of us.
And I could see him breathing right, just.
breathing.
And he needed that.
And it's okay that hemissed whatever he missed.
And it's okay that I canceledall my meetings, right?
Because I wanted to model,and this is where I'm taking
it back to teaching, right?
I wanted to model what it meantto prioritize yourself, right?
(18:40):
It's one thing to say, okay, baby,well, maybe you can, you know, do this
a little differently or go take a bath.
Or how about you breathetonight and skip, right?
But I wanted to model it.
Let me do it.
I'm gonna do it with.
I wanna show you exactlywhat this looks like.
And so, you know, for me, I feel likeit's never too early to teach that.
And unfortunately, I already feellike by the time I get college
(19:01):
students, it's like foreign.
It's like what does that mean?
What does that look like?
You know?
And so I enjoy when I'm able to bein the community and teach people,
especially parents and teachers whoare working with our young kids, so
they're not like us as adults andjust trying to figure this thing.
Granted, when life happens, wehave to refigure it out anyway,
but sometimes we have, so we haveno real concept of what it means.
(19:26):
What makes you happy?
What fills you up?
The number of adults that Iwork with who can't answer those
questions, you wouldn't believe it.
You know, it's like, I have no idea.
You know, and it's like, okay, wellwe're starting at a different place.
And so I just, I find itvery important for us.
Prioritize that.
And when I talk about thatethically, professionally, I feel
like that extends just much greaterthan just professionally, right?
(19:49):
I'm obligated to self, I'm obligatedto my children, and I see my
friend's, children, my family, right?
My students like, it's my responsibilityto make sure that you have what,
you have, the tools that you need.
It's up to you to use them, but that youhave the tools that you need so that when
it's time to use them, you have something.
(20:11):
and I feel like that's a hugegap for us in our society.
Casey Dwyer (20:16):
I have so many thoughts.
My first thought is sort of aboutboundaries in self-care because
it's not easy to say, yeah, Ihave to cancel these meanings.
And it's not easy to say, youknow, I really just don't have
the capacity for that right now.
But it, I'm always glad when I do, there'snever a time where I'm like, man, I wish
(20:41):
I had been dishonest about my capacity.
It's always like, why wasn't I honest?
Why didn't I tell them thatI didn't have space for that?
And I,
Shanza Isom (20:49):
it's not easy Casey, because we haven't normalized it.
Casey Dwyer (20:52):
Right?
Right.
There's guilt with it andthere's this feeling of like,
why am I not able to do it all?
But that's part of the modeling, like,And maybe this is just a way that I
make myself feel better, but I thinkwhen I say no to something or I tell
someone, you know, that I, you know,can I do that another time because
(21:13):
I really just can't do it right now.
There I remind myself, you know what?
You just stood up for yourself.
You stood up for your needs.
Shanza Isom (21:20):
Yep.
Casey Dwyer (21:21):
You stood up for your wellness.
And even if the other persondoesn't realize it, that was
good for them to witness.
This is all good and helpfulbecause it's not normalized.
So here's my little pebblethat I'm throwing it.
Shanza Isom (21:33):
Yeah.
Casey Dwyer (21:33):
The health normalize.
. Shanza Isom (21:35):
Yeah, and you know it almost saddens me We don't feel like
we have permission to set boundariesfor ourselves, which is fascinating to
me because if we don't set boundariesfor ourselves, they won't exist.
Right.
And so but it, but you're right,there's a lot of these other
feelings that come with that.
And that's a cultural thing, that's asocietal issue that, that we struggle
(21:55):
with and yeah, we haven't normalized it.
So you feel bad for doing it,or you feel like, I can't cancel
these meetings tomorrow becausepeople are depending on me?
Well, you know, I'm depending on.
for me too.
Right.
And so, yeah, I, and I, you knowit's funny, and I'm gonna be honest,
I didn't feel bad canceling mymeetings that day, like at all.
I would not recommend that we goaround canceling meetings all the time.
(22:16):
Right.
. Right.
I mean, you know, and I recognizedone that my son needed me, and
honestly, I needed a day too, right?
And those meetings will wait untiltomorrow or until I can reschedule them.
And I, you know, As a commonpractice, not the best thing.
You're actually going to create morestress for yourself if you procrastinate
and put things off all the time.
(22:37):
Right.
But that's not what that was.
Right.
And recognizing the differenceand being aware of your capacity.
And in order to do that, youhave to spend time reflecting.
Right.
But you have to be taught to do that too.
Right.
It's this interesting, it'sthis interesting thing.
and you know, being able to setboundaries and whatever that looks
like for you, that's a self-carestrategy, as I like to say, right?
That's a strategy, it's a necessity.
(22:58):
But it's a strategy.
Put that in your toolbox.
You need to practice that on occasionso you know what it feels like, right?
You need to reflect on that dayto day, because my capacity this
week will look different next week.
My capacity today looksdifferent from tomorrow, right?
And so I have to be aware of it atall times in order to then respond
appropriately and that it's okay to pause.
and take breaths.
Right?
It's okay to reflect and to be sure it'sokay to say, let me get back to you.
(23:22):
Right?
We exist in a space where everythinghas to be kind of immediate and
we move so fast, you know, but thepausing and reflecting the, taking
the time, the, I'll get back to you.
Those are all okay.
I'm not sure.
Let me think about it.
, you know, and get back to you.
You know, I think that scene somuch now is like a rejection,
or, oh, that must mean no, thatmeans, I wanna think about it.
(23:44):
and thinking is good, you know,and so but it's interesting.
We don't give ourselves permissionor others to take care of themselves.
And that's that radical piece, right?
You can't wait for.
. Right.
You owe it to yourself.
You know I think it's, you know if you'veheard the term unapologetic, right?
That, that's what it is.
It's unapologetic.
(24:04):
Right?
And it's inten it's not withan apology that I say, no, . It
may be unfortunate for you.
And there's a reason behind my no.
And I don't owe an explanation.
. Right.
I really don't.
And the same with yes.
You know, we need to give ourselvespermission to say yes too.
That's a whole different conversationand yet related as well, right?
Sometimes we set different types ofboundaries and sometimes we need to give
(24:26):
ourselves a yes, permission as well.
But those are all strategies.
If we don't model those, if wedon't teach those, how do you
know you're not born knowing?
right?
It has to come from somewhere.
And unfortunately for most of us,it comes with education over time.
It comes with experience.
It comes with the negative consequencesin you learning from your mistakes.
(24:46):
And that's okay sometimes in life.
And yet, the tools exist.
The knowledge exists, right?
And so why don't , you know, from apension standpoint, why not address
some of these things with a littlemore intention a little earlier.
And so that's part of why I do thework that I do in the community.
That's part of why I try to incorporateas much as I can into my classes.
(25:07):
And honestly, I feel like it's nowherenear enough, but at this point it's
just, I'm trying to just drop littleseeds, right little seeds, which
is why I've then created the coursesbecause now I can delve into it, right?
I can't really do that in myother classes in the same way.
And so I'm really excited about thesecourses and I cannot wait to have.
to propose that they're arequired part of the curriculum.
I've also recently worked on acurriculum outside of teaching with
(25:30):
a colleague of mine with the Innerwork center a mindful wellbeing
curriculum that was open to anybody inthe community and it went excellent.
We, we created the entirecurriculum and we're now about
to do it for the second time withstaff for Henrico County Schools.
And what I'm hoping to do the thirdtime around then is offer it through.
If possible n a s w as a professionaldevelopment for social workers.
(25:50):
Right?
Like what is mindful wellbeing for socialworkers look like, and then maybe I'll
do something else after that, right?
But my hope is to eventually reach asmany people as possible in all different
types of settings, because we all need it.
right in, in some way, shape or form.
What it may look like could vary.
But we all need the spaceto be intentional about it.
(26:12):
We all need the space toreflect on it for ourselves.
We don't take that time day to day, right?
And so when you have these spaces,when I was doing that workshop with the
college students, one of the things thatthey said was this, the first time I
spent time really like really thinking.
that for myself, right?
Because when we tend to thinkabout it is when we need it most.
And as you mentioned, it's likely theworst time to think about it because we're
(26:33):
not in a space to do that well, you know?
Casey Dwyer (26:37):
Absolutely.
I would love it if you, Imean, you have so many things
that you're passionate about.
You have so many
Shanza Isom (26:44):
I do!
'Laughing"
Casey Dwyer (26:45):
projects, , so many, like, so many things you're working on, and I
think it's important and you mentioned.
You know when you were first talking aboutwhat you do, this idea of double work
and making sure that everything you'redoing doesn't feel like double work.
So I would just love for you to share,I mean, I hate this cuz it sounds
cliche, but how you balance it allbecause I, there are ways to mindfully
(27:10):
be very engaged in the community, bevery involved without overdoing it.
And it seems like, , you'redoing that well,
. Shanza Isom: I am.
I am trying to do that.
Well you know I have some people who willsay things like, you know, I want chance
to come because you're an expert at this.
And an expert just means that you'vedone enough research, you've practiced
it enough that you may have a littlemore knowledge than the average person.
(27:32):
Right.
I recognize that also, . SometimesI don't think people realize
that I'm still learning too.
The more that I do it,the more that I learn.
Right?
And so, and the more that I'm doingthis and prioritizing this work,
the more I'm reminded to prioritizethe practice for myself, right?
That's the beautiful part about doingwhat you're passionate about because
(27:53):
it doesn't feel like extra work.
. Right.
It's actually the part thatmakes me the most excited.
And so from a capacity standpoint,with time, I have to be mindful
because I can't do everything.
I just cannot, even when Iwant to, I can't do it all.
And when I'm doing thosethings, they feel good.
They're not taking from me, right?
And so trying to find, and that's.
(28:15):
, probably a separate conversation, butI talk to people a lot about, you know,
when you're thinking about findingyour purpose, right, it's usually those
things that give you the feeling, right?
Where it's like, I may be doing a lotof this, but it feels so good, right?
And so that's another conversation, but.
The business that I startedis called Be Well Right?
And it's self-care andholistic life balance.
And so you brought up that balance.
And I thought about that because,you know I tend to not care for the
(28:37):
term or phrase work-life balance.
I've kind of moved away from thatbecause life is, work is a part of life.
Like I work life balance that, thatdoesn't make sense to me in the same way.
It's just, it's life balance, right?
And work is a piece of that.
Home is a piece of that, right?
Me and my role as.mom, right?
And my home is separate from me andmy role as partner and me and my
(29:01):
role, you know, with my nonprofitsand that sort of thing, right?
But they all are part of my life.
And so it's all me.
It's me trying to figure out andfind balance within those things.
So when I think about balancing it, Ithink the first thing that comes to mind
is really, you know, we've used this worda lot and it's gonna be kind of funny
now, but you know, that awareness piece.
Right where I have to check inwith myself on a regular basis.
(29:24):
I was just joking with my studentstoday when I mentioned something
and I, I told them and I said, yeah.
And so, you know, I said, youknow, I can't do that right now.
You know, and so going back to thiscomment and they laughed at it,
you know, like, oh my gosh, I can'tbelieve you told me you can do it.
And it's like what's wrong with that?
Something wrong with that.
And so the balance piecefor me starts with.
Regular check-ins with self, right?
(29:46):
Regular moments to reflect on, okay,how are you really Shanza like, I,
like, I laugh when I when I ask peoplethis question, so, you know, how are
you, okay, but how are you really?
In other words, let's be honest,let's be vulnerable, right?
And sometimes our gut response forhow are you is not really how we are.
. And so allowing ourselves to be honestand truthful to be real and vulnerable.
(30:08):
And if you can't do that withyourself you're gonna have
a really hard time in life.
And so to do my honest check-in andsometimes that's a, you're doing a
little too much baby girl , right?
This is beautiful.
And you're not sleeping.
This is wonderful.
And.
, right?
And so and I often say thatinstead of the butt, right?
(30:29):
Because you know both are existing, right?
And sometimes they're inconflict with one another.
And sometimes they're just both existing.
And so now I need to figure out,okay, so what do I do with the
fact that they're both here?
And so that initial checking inwith self, and when I mentioned
that I asked my son what he.
So often we don't know what we need.
You know, when friends call youand they're stressed, well, you
(30:51):
know, what do you need right now?
I don't know.
You know, and oftentimes it's becauseyou can't fill that need, right?
But if you're not able to reflect andidentify the need within self then even
you can't fill it personally, right?
And so I'm constantly reflectingon where am I right now?
Right?
That's that mindfulness piece,being able to drop completely in,
you know, where am I right now?
What am I.
(31:12):
, what am I thinking?
What do I need right now?
And then being willing andable to offer myself grace.
And be kind and gentle because we're oftensuper kind and gentle with other people
and very harsh and critical of self.
And so I often will, you know, kind of,if you imagine it giving yourself like
an internal hug and squeeze, you know,just a little gentleness, you know,
oh, that's really difficult right now.
(31:34):
Or you're going with a roughpatch right now, baby , you know,
like just talking to myself.
And showing a little kindnessand then reflecting on, you
know, what do you need right now?
Sometimes for me that balancemeans looking at my schedule and
figuring out what I need to take off.
, right?
Sometimes for me that means figuringout, you know, okay, I need connection.
Maybe putting in someopportunities to be with people.
(31:54):
Maybe that means I needtherapy session right now.
Maybe that means, right, maybe thatjust means I need a day off, right?
Maybe that means I need a hug.
Maybe I need a good cry.
You know?
And that's okay too.
You know, maybe I need some metime and I need maybe I need.
maybe I need sleep.
But whatever the need is,being able to name it.
And oftentimes because we don'tlook at ourselves as holistically
(32:17):
as would be beneficial.
You know, I oftentimes I thinkabout myself and I think about like
the dimensions of wellness, right?
And so, you know, what is my.
Body need right now.
What does my physical self need?
Right?
Well, in order to determine that, I needto know where I am physically, right?
For me, body scans help with that.
I'm able to determine, I have alot of a lot, maybe a stretch.
I have some medical issues that causephysical pain, you know, so I'm able
(32:39):
to reflect and check in on where mybody is, you know, what's needed there.
You know, emotionally, where are youemotionally Shanza oh, that's where
I'm struggling the most right now.
Right.
And I'm able to say that.
And when I work with students, you know,we're able to say, well, I'm doing really
good right now and physically, you know,I'm doing really good kind of with my
social connections and my support systems.
Those things do really good.
Psychologically, I feel likeI'm all right, you know, and
(33:01):
then I'll have students say, Ithink emotionally I'm a mess.
But being able to tease that.
, right?
Because when you're feeling off,or when you're feeling overwhelmed
or anxious or stressed, it's hardto pinpoint the root cause, right?
And without a root cause it's hard tothen it's hard to then act on it, right?
It's hard to, it's hardto then address it.
(33:22):
And so you have toidentify the root cause.
So for me, balance looks like creatingspace to do all of those things, right?
And so I could recognize that mywhole self consists of multiple parts.
And when anyone is off right,lacking it creates this it's
no longer balanced, right?
You don't feel like there's a balancethat may not be the word that you use or
(33:43):
may feel like, I feel a little off, or Ifeel a little right, and that's because
something needs tendon to, and thatdoesn't mean that everything is equal.
right?
It's not necessarily equal all thetime, but everything plays a part.
And when something is lacking orneglected or or there's a need you
feel it somewhere within you and it,you have to spend time going inward to
(34:03):
figure out where that's coming from.
And oftentimes I find that it'shelpful to look at the parts of self.
Right.
And to figure out, okay, well maybe it'sphysical, well maybe it's emotional.
Well, you know, and oh, you know,I haven't spent time with anybody
that I loved in a long time,and I'm feeling a little sad.
No wonder I'm down.
Right.
That makes sense.
I thought it was just the cold weather.
(34:24):
Maybe that's it too.
You know, maybe it's alittle seasonal stuff.
But I also haven't, I haven't had fun.
I haven't been hugged in a while, right?
I haven't funny story.
I was asked to do to speak at forthe pilot International, which is a
service organization, and this wasone of their yearly, like annual.
Conventions and they asked me to speakon mindful leadership, and I can't
(34:46):
remember the topic, but basicallycaring for yourself in the midst
of serving and what does that mean?
And in the midst of change,their topic was on change.
And how do you care for yourself in themidst of change, which is interesting.
Interesting because change can throwoff your whole equilibrium, right?
And so they wanted to talk about,okay, so much has changed due to
covid and we're really strugglingas an organization, right?
And so how do you care for yourselfand how does the organization move
(35:09):
forward in the midst of change?
And I had a, I asked a question andoh, I asked about, what do you need?
So I was given an example and Isaid, if I were to throw this to
the group and if I were to ask you.
So just spend a second.
I had them spend a little timereflecting and to reflect on what do
you need right now in this moment?
If you were to identifywhat need what do you need?
And I gave them a minute and I came backand said, okay, who would like to share?
(35:30):
And somebody shared, somebody mentionedsleep, you know, these little things.
And then this older woman who.
Truly reminded me of my grandma, likeprobably in her eighties stood up
and actually she didn't stand first.
She raised her hand and I said yeah,stand up and if you're able to stand.
So she stood and I said, talk to me.
What do you need?
And she said, if I'm gonnabe honest, I need a hug.
I haven't had one in a year and a half.
(35:51):
Casey, my heart broke.
When we think about the impactthat this pandemic have had on all
of us we've all been affected insome way, shape, or form, right?
We don't have to judge it.
We don't have to call it good or bad.
We've all been affected insome way, shape or form.
Some people have ha have been affected.
I won't say more in a way that I thinkhas impacted them more negatively.
Right.
(36:11):
And so when she said, I haven't hada hug in a year and a half, everybody
in the room just, yeah, your facialexpression is what happened, right?
Everybody looked like they wanted to cry.
And I said, I'm gonna give you a hug ifyou're okay with it, mask and all right?
I said, if you're okaywith it, I wanna hug you.
And she said, yeah.
And so I gave her the.best Hug.
(36:34):
She hugged me for so long, Casey,you would've thought we had a
personal relationship first of all.
Right?
But the importance ofphysical contact, it's huge.
And I'm imagining, I don't know if thisis true, but in my head, all I could
think is this woman is living by herself.
I could be wrong, right?
She'd be living 50 people.
But all I can think was is this woman isliving by herself in the midst of Covid.
(36:57):
And because she's an olderwoman, she is likely more at.
risk, right, for Covid, andit's being very intentional about
spending time with people, whichmeans she's been extremely isolated.
She doesn't work.
I didn't know that, right?
And my heart broke because I'mthinking a year and a half without
being physically touched, impactsyou way more than we think.
(37:20):
, right?
That, that's huge.
That's not healthy.
. Okay.
That's not healthy.
And something so, so small.
And when we were o when it was over, youknow, I had a conversation with her and
a few people came around and we justtalked a little bit about if it weren't
for that question, you know, she said Iwouldn't have, like, I didn't know, like,
of course I'm missing people, right.
But I didn't think about just the hug.
(37:40):
would make such a difference, right?
So that's what I'm talking about, right?
Finding those things.
And in order to do that, we have tocheck in with ourselves and we have to
create space to determine our needs.
And we have to be able to have thatawareness in order to find and in
order to create balance, right.
And balance looksdifferent for each of us.
And so if you're not doing the individualwork, you're not gonna figure it
(38:01):
out because there's no prescription.
right there.
There's no prescription.
There's no one answer to that.
Yeah.
And
there's so much curiosity that's needed for that of Yeah.
Something's not right,so that coming from?
And it's usually, at least in myexperience, it's the harder roots
are the tougher feelings thatare a little bit harder to place.
Shanza Isom (38:22):
Yep.
Casey Dwyer (38:23):
But as long as we're giving it some.
Some gentle questioning we get there.
Shanza Isom (38:29):
Yeah.
And sometimes we can'tdo that by ourselves.
Casey Dwyer (38:31):
Right, right.
Shanza Isom (38:32):
Sometimes we may need help of other people.
Sometimes we may need to.
See counseling or therapy.
Sometimes we may need some people,for some people, you know, maybe a
pastor, for some people, a close friend,sometimes we can't get there by ourselves.
We need somebody to poke and prod.
Right.
But it's the space that's required, right?
It's that space that has to becreated with intention, right?
Or we won't get anywhere.
Casey Dwyer (38:53):
I think I'll never stop being amazed at the power of creating
that space, like what that does.
when I create that space formyself, or I create it for someone
else, or it's created for me,it is transformative, literally.
Every single time.
Shanza Isom (39:10):
Yeah.
And I think what's interestingis I don't think we realize how
necessary, like that can't be optional.
Right.
And that's the issue.
And yet how do you learnabout the importance?
Right.
So when we reflect on, one of the thingsthat I like to do in some of my workshops
is I ask people to reflect on whendid you first learn about self-care?
Right?
Let's go back, when didyou first learn about it?
(39:31):
When did you first learnabout the definition?
When did you first learn about thepractices and what it looks like?
And usually it's really interestingbecause I'll either have people say,
truly, I learn about it in college.
Right, or I learned about it as a parent.
It's adults.
It's very rare that I, you know, peoplehave heard the concept as a kid maybe,
but where did you really learn about it?
And then when I say practices,I get a lot of pauses.
(39:52):
And usually I'll get people to say, oh,in college I took a class, or I had a
professor who, you know or, well, asa parent, I just kind of figured it
out that I needed to do this thing.
You know, I don't even knowwhat it is, but I need to do it.
Or you get the blank faces.
The, well, I don't knowif I know that yet.
, you know, I don't think I know what Ikind of try to do to take care of myself.
But I don't think I'veever been taught that.
(40:14):
Right.
And that's the piecethat I think is missing.
And unfortunately, I don't havethe superpower that I want to have.
We all have superpowers.
I don't have the one that I wantto have because if I did, I would
be able to to create spaces acrossour whole world for these sorts of
conversations and to teach this.
Right.
But I haven't figured out howto do that completely yet.
So I'm just doing it in little pockets.
'laughing',
Casey Dwyer (40:35):
the pockets are making a difference in there.
Differences.
Well I don't wanna take up toomuch more of your time, but I would
love to, we know we're recordingthis amidst the holiday season.
We are about to approach the timeof year where everybody's talking
about very rigid goal setting.
In a way that I personally, Ithink can be pretty unhealthy.
(40:56):
This whole concept of self-improvementusually at the expense of other things.
So I would just love to hear yourthoughts on how we can move through the
holidays and the new year mindfully.
How we can set intentions gently.
Shanza Isom (41:11):
Yeah, I mean the holidays are definitely, can be
challenging for people I think.
All the things.
So maybe from exciting to anxietyprovoking to very emotional,
traumatic for some people, right?
Holidays can I think evokeall types of feelings.
And I think the mindful pieceis really important, right?
So when you think about mindfulness, Ilike to use John Kaba zinn's definition.
And it's really, you know,it's paying attention , right?
(41:32):
And it's doing so on purpose, right?
So now we're talking intentionally,right on purpose in the present moment.
So the, right now, this iswhere you are because this is
all we've got for real, right?
And then without judgment.
, and that's that kindness, thatgentleness, that grace that
sometimes we forget, right?
And so when you think about those threeaspects and you think about setting
(41:53):
intentions, I always I encouragepeople to start from there, right?
And to think about and I justmentioned this before, but you know,
moments of pause and reflection,offering yourself and others,
grace spending time with gratitude.
right?
We're so quick to thinkabout, okay, what's next?
What do I need to do next?
But starting from those places,I think allow for you to enter
(42:16):
a little more gently, right?
So when you start from grace, whenyou start from gratitude, right?
When you start from no judgment, itallows for you to really think a little
differently about what the, what about,what your journey, what your aims
are, what your goals may be, right?
A little differently, right?
And so I.
. You know, when you think about this theconcept of more radical self-care and
(42:39):
taking care of yourself and whateverthat may mean for you without apology
in the midst of anxiety and stressand all these other emotions, I.
, I en, I would encourage people tobegin with a place from a place
that's more kind and gentle, offeringyourself a little gratitude and grace.
And then this is where really mylast conversation fits perfectly
(43:00):
here in order to set intentions.
, you have to go inward, right?
I mean, you have to bring abouta sense of awareness in order
to aim for anything, right?
What motivates you?
What are you passionate about?
Where would you like your journey to be?
I mean, any and all of that.
You can't do any of thatwithout going inward.
(43:20):
And so I encourage people to think about,, you know what does that look like for you?
What are your priorities?
Right?
Intentions help to providea little focus, right?
It gives us motivation but trying tokeep a positive outlook, not so positive
that it's not productive, right?
But we're talking realistic, right?
We want to set ourselves.
(43:42):
For success in life, we wannaself our, set ourselves up for
wellness, wanna set ourselves upfor happiness for love, right?
All of those positive things.
And if you enter from a place ofunrealistic expectations, more
harsh and rigid language or spacesit really sets you up for critical.
right.
Feedback to self afterwards, right?
(44:02):
Any opportunity that you didn'tmeet a goal, for example you're more
likely to be critical when you'rea little more open, when you're a
little more and not just positive.
I mean, it really islike more grace oriented.
Just more kind on a very basic level.
I think you're, you tend tobe a little more I think,
clear, a little less judgey andhonestly a little more flexible.
(44:27):
And I think kind of that flexibility,although sometimes when we think
about kind of aims and goals, wethink we wanna be very specific.
But specific doesn't mean rigid.
, right?
We're just talking clarity.
you just wanna be clear, right?
That doesn't mean rigid.
And you can be clear andallow for flexibility.
You can be clear and allow for grace.
You can be clear and be gentle andkind, and allow yourself the opportunity
(44:51):
to redirect, to change, and to shift.
as necessary.
It's not a yes or no.
I did it or I didn't.
Right.
It could be a, okay, this iswhere I was going, this was my
intention, and some things change.
So how do I move in this direction?
What does that mean for me?
What does that look like?
What do I want from this?
What was my goal?
And like, what was my purpose behindcreating this and how do I, now, how
(45:14):
do I look at that a little differently?
Right?
Which is a lot lesscritical and a lot more.
open and gentle.
And so I just I encouragepeople to start from a space.
If you're end goal is to, and most people,I think this is a part of most people
end goals, is to be healthy, right?
To be happy, to be loved, right?
(45:34):
I mean, some of those positive things, youcannot do that if you're starting from a
place that is not also positive, right?
Like, like you, you just, you can't, you,part of that is really creating the space.
your, you know, I like to talkabout heart spaces, right?
From a heart space that's alreadykind, that's already gentle.
The way that you would do it witha kid, the way that you would do
(45:55):
it with your best friend, right?
If , they were talking about goals,the way that we would talk to them
about that and how to get to thatand, oh, we'll be, you know, if
that doesn't work out, that's okay.
This is what, right.
Our language is a lot different.
And so how do you startthere with yourself?
Because then that languagewill continue to flow.
That flexibility willbe present, that open.
That willingness to make shiftsand changes as they arise.
(46:18):
Life is unpredictable and while it'sbeautiful to have goals and to set
intentions and to aim for certainthings and to allow for that to motivate
you it is just as important to allowfor the possibility of whatever.
I'll stop with that.
. Casey Dwyer: I just am thinking when you leave room, For flexibility.
(46:39):
You leave space for really good thingsto enter in like that goes beyond
just what we're bringing to the table.
If we have flexibility for howour goals can change, then there's
space for extra good things thatwe couldn't possibly anticipate.
That's right.
And we have to remember that inmany ways we don't have control.
(46:59):
In many ways.
We don't have the power.
That we think we do right?
And some we do.
But in, in many ways we can't predicthow things are gonna turn out.
And we don't have control overeverything that comes our way.
And so we can set intentions, we can aimfor certain things we can be motivated to
do, to accomplish all these great things.
(47:21):
And if we don't leave, for not onlythe good things, but for life to happen.
, we will be disappointed, we will be hurt,and we'll be thrown off so much that we
can't, if you can't then redirect Right.
Or bounce back a little bit.
Right.
When you think about, I don't reallywanna use the word resiliency here,
but for lack of a better word, right?
It really fosters that.
(47:41):
And it's important for us becauselife will continue to happen.
Like it's not gonna stop.
It will continue to happen.
And I think personally that's a beautiful.
Right?
Some things that happencan be horrific, right?
So some can throw you off, some canbe painful, some can be trauma right?
All those negative things arepossible for all of us, and some
can be absolutely beautiful andlife altering in the best of ways.
(48:05):
And so we, we have to always allowfor life and be okay with that.
a little bit, you know?
Casey Dwyer (48:13):
It's here.
. Shanza Isom: It's, that's right.
. That's right.
So I would love for you to share.
, if you have any resources, and ifthere's too many to list, we can always
just link them in the description.
Any resources you would recommend forlisteners who are wanting to learn more
about some of what we've discussed?
Shanza Isom (48:30):
Yeah, I would love to send you a list in addition, because I do,
I try to keep resources because, so Icould definitely send you some things.
One of the things that comes to mindfor me, and only because I used it
recently, Wellness from within.
I don't know if you've ever heardof it, but they have like a little
booklet, which is really cool and Ithink you can download it for free.
I find it's a really good place tostart if you haven't done any real work
(48:51):
with kind of holistic wellbeing andreally trying to look at like you as
a whole person in all parts of itself.
It's a really good, I think, start.
But I do have some other resources andI'll happily I'll happily link them.
Casey Dwyer (49:01):
So now for the question we ask all of our
guests, , what does the process ofawareness to action mean to you?
Shanza Isom (49:09):
So it's interesting because I think throughout a few
times, you know, I've kind of broughtup this concept of awareness and what
that means and and I think, you know,increasing one's awareness, right?
So when I think about awareness toaction increasing one's awareness.
allows for the opportunity, Ithink, to be educated which I
(49:31):
think is necessary in order to act.
And when I say educated, I don'tnecessarily mean outside education, right?
I'm talking even when we gowithin, that's educating, right?
And so increasing thaton any level, right?
So increasing that personal awareness,increasing awareness of impact of
you know, , the outside world onus when I was talking about the
impact of covid or what have you.
(49:51):
Right?
But when you spend some timeto focus on and become more
aware, , you are then able to act.
You can't really act withoutawareness because then that's
not intentional anymore, right?
So in order to be intentional,which when we're acting, we wanna be
intentional because typically we'reacting for a desired outcome, . And
so in order to do that, that therehas to first be a level of awareness.
(50:12):
And again, whether that's personal, right?
So we're talking personal awarenessfor our own wellbeing, or if we're
talking within community so thatwe can advocate for change, it
really doesn't matter the level.
, you have to start from a placeof awareness so that you can then
educate yourself, find resources,whatever you need to do, right?
To align yourself bestto then move and to act.
So that's what comes to mind for me.
(50:33):
And as I think about that, Ithink on my personal journey.
. I think that's that, thatresonates in the same way as it
does on my professional journey.
I think it is the exact same for mewhen I think about my profession and
when I think about my work with my kids.
Right?
Like it really is the same for me.
That that awareness is neededprior to any action in order to
act from a place of intention.
Casey Dwyer (50:53):
I love your use of the word alignment in that.
I really like that a lot.
Shanza Isom (50:59):
It's a beautiful word by the way.
Casey Dwyer (51:00):
Yeah,
Shanza Isom (51:01):
I like words.
So,
. Casey Dwyer: Well, Shanza thank you so much for taking the time to be with us.
As we've already discussed, Iknow you have a whole lot on
your plate, a lot of good things.
And I'm just really grateful forthis this whole conversation that
just feels very uplifting to me.
(51:21):
And, you know, our 2021Awareness to Action.
Episodes will be ending with thisone, and it feels like a really
great one to take us into 2022.
So thanks for being here.
I am just very grateful for the opportunity to be here,
to see your face for one again.
It's really nice to see you tosee the work that you're doing.
I'm really excited for you and honestlyproud of you because I do feel like I
(51:45):
was here and a part of your journey.
And so
Casey Dwyer (51:47):
absolutely.
Shanza Isom (51:47):
I'm really proud of you and where you are right now.
And I think that this podcastis, You know, necessary.
Like it's really needed.
And I'm hoping that whatever Ioffer today benefits somebody.
I was very excited to be a part of it.
And after talking to you, I'mhoping you can see my passions.
Yeah.
I'm really easy to find, by theway, if anybody's interested in
reaching out and talking a littlemore about what, you mindful living
(52:12):
or You know, setting intentions orjust holistic wellbeing overall.
I'm open, but I appreciate you having me.
This was a real highlight of myday and you talked about this being
the episode that wraps up for you.
This is the last thing of my dayand I think it really has set
the tone for my long drive homeand I'm feeling really good and.
So thank you.
Good.
Well, we'll make sure that we shareall of your information for all
(52:35):
the things you're involved in andfor you in the episode description.
And
that'll be that.
Thank you.
I appreciate you Casey.
Thanks for listening, andthank you to Hanza for joining.
Make sure you subscribe to Awareness toAction so you don't miss out on any of the
(52:57):
conversations we have coming up in 2022.
Welcome to Awareness to Action, a podcast brought to
you by the Northwestern CommunityServices Board Prevention Department.
I'm your host Casey, a social worker andprevention specialist here in Virginia.
Our podcast goal is to promotewellness through conversation,
connection, and action.
We hope each episode willleave you feeling inspired and
motivated to look for ways to getinvolved in your own community.
(00:30):
Welcome back to Awareness toAction and Happy New Year.
Today we're joined by Shaza Isam.
Shaza is an assistant professor in theJames Madison University Department
of Social Work, where she teachesundergraduate courses and directs field
instruction shaza is also a facilitatorand trainer with expertise in areas
of mindfulness and holistic wellbeing.
Shaza trains and teaches educators,parents and those in helping professions
(00:54):
in the incorporation of mindfulness intheir personal and professional lives.
I know Shaza for my own time at J M Uwhen I was lucky enough to have her as
a professor, chance's, emphasis on thebenefits and beauty of holistic wellbeing.
Mindfulness and self-care are part ofthe formation of my own social work.
So I'm absolutely thrilled to have heron the show, and I'm excited to share
(01:16):
this episode at the start of the year.
A perfect time to begin orcontinue incorporating these
practices into our lives.
All right, Shaza, thanks forbeing on the podcast today.
Shanza Isom (01:27):
I'm excited to be here.
I've been looking forward toit for quite some time now.
So thanks for having me.
I have
too, and.
I'm just looking forward towhat we're gonna dive into.
I think it's gonna be really good.
Let's do it.
So let's start with you tellingour listeners about yourself, the
work you do in the community andthe path you took to get here.
(01:49):
Okay.
That's a big question.
So, , a little bit about myself.
, a social worker by profession.
, I've been, , practicing since receivingmy B S W, so that was back in 2002, so
it's been quite some time after some workin the community and getting my graduate
degree, , a little bit more work I.
Fell into honestly higher educationand teaching, which was exciting.
(02:12):
It was not a part of my plan necessarily.
, although I've always beeninterested in kind of meso
practice, , groups, facilitation,education, those sorts of things.
So it really aligned,I think, fairly well.
, what that has looked like forme outside of being a profess.
What that's looked like for me over theyears really, , is being engaged in the
community sort of on that level, right.
(02:33):
Any spaces where I could, , offeropportunities for workshops,
facilitations that are usually arounda specific topic in education, one of
my passions, , in addition to socialwork practice has been kind of holistic.
Well, Self-care, , wellnessin general, , mindfulness.
And so I've kind of lived this almostdouble life until I would say within the
(02:57):
last five years where they have, as Ilike to say, they've married each other.
, so prior to like the last five years,it's, you know, I was teaching.
. And then on the side, right on theside, I was doing all this other
work, , in the community where I sawthe connections, but there wasn't
really, , there wasn't a smooth orreally intentional connection on my end.
(03:19):
It was as people like tosay, your side hustle.
Right?
So it's kind of what I did on the sidebecause it filled me, I enjoyed it.
So if we're talking aboutwellbeing, right, and knowing what
fills you, what brings you joyand excitement that always has.
And so what I've beenable to do over the last.
Five years, you know, and thinkingabout intention is I've really put a
lot of time and energy into figuringout, okay, how do I bring these
(03:42):
two together in such a way that itdoesn't feel like double work for me?
, but really I think the biggestpart is they, in my mind, they
make perfect sense together, right?
And so when I think about what I'mteaching my students and what we know
about social practice and what we knowabout social justice and what we know
about working with people social workoperates from a similar perspective
(04:02):
and really looking at the whole person.
And so when I think about holisticwellbeing, that's what we're doing, right?
I mean, that's what we're talking about.
We're talking about the whole person.
What does that mean?
And so, . My journey has consisted ofkind of, you know, practicing teaching,
kind of doing this side stuff whereI've been a mindfulness instructor
through nonprofit enrichment.
(04:23):
Now I'm called the Inner work Center.
It was originally calledChrysalis Institute.
And I've done all my mindfulnesswork kind of on that side, right?
All of my holistic wellbeingstuff on that side.
And now since then, I've actually.
Started my own business, , and, whichhas been really exciting around that.
I am contracted in quite often tofacilitate, to serve as a keynote you
(04:45):
know, to do workshops, to do professionaldevelopment trainings, to do a one-time
kind of educational piece from being in.
School systems, which I love.
I like to say I, I love the childrenand I love to train the trainer.
I'm that person, right?
And so let me work with the teachers,let me work with the staff, let me work
with the parents, let me work with thepeople who are working with the people
and prepare them for the work, right?
(05:08):
That's really a passion of mine.
And so I've done a lot of work inthe community with teachers within
school systems, predominantly,honestly, in the Richmond area
because that's where I'm from.
I still commute to this area.
And so predominantly in thatarea, But also with small
businesses and organizations.
I've recently done some work withJunior League of Richmond, for example.
(05:28):
They just asked me to come back.
, the, , I can't think ofthe official name of it.
Oh, and I hate that.
I'm blanking on it.
It's not the League, VirginiaDistrict of Independent.
Colleges or League ofIndependent Colleges.
Can't remember the name of it.
Sorry, that I don't know it.
, but I just did some work with collegestudents who are, , in independent
colleges like Mary Baldwin, right.
, who are like Bridgewater, , whoare women in particular, right.
(05:51):
So young adults who are in thesecolleges and was a part of one
of their leadership institutes.
And, , provided some workshops oractually I was a speaker for their
last day around kind of this same.
What does it mean tolead mindfully, right?
And so I've done some work even here atJMU where I was akeynotefor the madison
(06:12):
Leads Conference on the same idea, right?
So kind of leading with intention, whatdoes mindful leadership mean, right?
And so when I think about that, Again,I see it being married and that a lot
of this work now is being done with thecollege students not just at J M U, right?
Other universities or other programsthat are working with college students.
I've implemented so much of this stuffinto my classes and how I approach my
(06:33):
students and how I approach teaching.
And then again, very much still outin the community where I'm contracted
in or asked to speak or provide.
And some of these are spaces where,Wouldn't naturally think that.
Fit.
But there's an interest in thetopic because we're all in a place
where we could use kind of somereflections, some guidance on what
(06:54):
does it mean to be well, right.
Especially in the midst, I think ofCovid because some of our responses
to that have likely changed.
So I would say that's how my journeyhas looked up until this point.
And as much of a nutshell as I could sayit in some of my work in the community,
I could go on and on, but I'll stopthere and if you would like for me
to add more I so could do that also.
Casey Dwyer (07:13):
Well, I'm just,
I love what you just saidabout training the trainers.
For the benefit of our listenersfor some context, Chanel was one of
my professors when I was at J M U.
And self-care was such a focusin our classes, in our courses.
at the time.
I remember thinking like, I knowthis is important, but we're really
(07:36):
talking about this a lot . Andyou know, that I'm in the field.
I am like, oh my gosh, thatwas so, so crucial to my
formation as a social worker.
I mean, I can't reallyemphasize that enough and.
I'm glad that you used that phrasingand highlighted that because training
(07:57):
the trainers is important and now
Shanza Isom (07:59):
training the trainers is important.
And for many of us who are working,I just did a workshop for those
who are in helping professions.
And I've since you've left, I'vecreated two classes, two electives.
Mindfulness is a wellness practiceand self-care for helping professions
because I feel like, and as you know,as you're out in practicing, right.
Real world now.
It is it's so crucial.
(08:19):
I think we hear the term self-careand we're like, ah, you know, it's
kind of we've talked about it somuch that it's slightly watered down.
And one of the things that I findinteresting about anybody who's
working with people and those in thehelping profession, especially those,
you know, social workers, nurses,teachers, we're seeing right now, right?
This is nothing new.
We know research has shown.
(08:40):
That the work that we do have an impacton our wellbeing that is not new.
Right.
That's something that'swe're all aware of it.
Right?
Burnout, compassion fatigue, vicarioustrauma, those things are not new.
The research is there.
Right.
And I think what we're slowly startingto realize now that we're in the middle
of a pandemic, I think other peopleare realizing how much people who
(09:00):
are in certain fields are impacted.
um, The work that they do by thedemand that's placed on them.
Right?
And we're not talking physicaldemand necessarily, right?
We're talking the emotionaland mental toll that it takes
to do some of this work.
And unfortunately, I feel like, although.
, there's probably nota social work student.
There's probably not a nursing studentor a teacher student, teaching student
who's not aware of the fact thatself-care is important for our field a
(09:24):
little differently maybe than others.
From a professional standpoint,personally, it's important
for all of us, right?
But professionally someof us are more at risk.
And so, although there's not a studentI would say who isn't aware of that,
I would then go so far as to sayis we don't teach it though, right?
Like we stress the importance.
and there's no realcontent that teaches one.
(09:47):
Okay, so what.
, I know that this is important.
I need to be aware of it.
That's very important.
I wanna think about this podcast, right?
Awareness to action.
Okay.
So what?
The awareness is wonderful, but ifwe're not doing anything with it or
we're not using that awareness, right?
In a very intentionalway to prepare students.
And that's the action piece.
, what does that look like then?
I think we're really, we'redoing our students a disservice.
(10:09):
Because the reality is what happensis most of us get into the field and
I'm not just talking social work.
We get into the field and we practicefor quite some time, and then we realize,
Oh, no.
Right.
. Yes.
I know that this stuff isimportant, but it's too late.
Like, I don't know, I don't knowhow to come back from this, right?
How do I pour into myself whenI'm so empty that I feel like I
(10:29):
need to leave the field, right?
Or I need to leave the job.
And so we don't provide the tools.
The awareness is important, butwithout the tools, we're just kind
of in this state of just awareness.
Which we know is.
That's one step that's one step.
And I think that we have, and I'm gonnastop after this because I will go for
(10:50):
a very long time once I mention this.
I think we have an ethical obligation.
To prepare students in the same, that sameway that we prepare you with skills and
that we prepare you with knowledge, right?
On other topics, I think that we have anethical obligation to prepare students
who are in these fields with the tools tobe well in order to continue this work.
(11:12):
And so I will stop right therebecause don't get me started on
an ethical allegation, Casey.
Okay.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna pause.
Casey Dwyer (11:20):
I think I would really to hear you speak more about ethical
obligation and what that means, becauseI think it's a really important concept.
So,
Shanza Isom (11:30):
yeah.
And, you know,
Casey Dwyer (11:31):
so, and you are willing to give the overview.
Well,
Shanza Isom (11:34):
so, so what I'll say, I guess and we can dig deep or stop after
this if we'd like, but since you'veopened the door a little wider, right.
I'm gonna just share a little bit more.
I'll just use social work for an example.
Right.
, we actually have a clause in our codeof ethics about professional self-care.
Most of my students are notaware of that until I mention it.
And if they are aware, they'renot aware of what it says.
Right?
(11:54):
And so if we have somethingthere, just like we have ethical
obligations for other things, right?
If we have a code of ethics thatwe're abiding by and students
are memorizing the values, right?
And they're memorizing all ofthese things, some of them can
tell you the preamble, right?
Like, all of this stuff.
Why aren't people aware of what is stated?
about professional self care, right?
And if we know that it's important enoughthat we've added this clause, why is that
(12:18):
not a part of our then curriculum, right?
If we're expecting people to abide by it,then we should have that inserted in such
a way that it's in the forefront, right?
And that it's prioritized.
And I would go so far as tosay it's not prioritized.
And that's across the profession, right?
It's not prioritized.
And so, you know, I feelthe ethical obligation.
(12:39):
to be well when we're workingwith other people, right?
That if we are not well, if we areunhealthy, and I'm not talking from a
physical standpoint, maybe that also,but I'm talking our whole self, right?
And so I'm talking mental,emotional, spiritual, and whatever
that means for you, right?
Social all of those components.
Make up you as a person, and if you'relacking in one or two of the areas, or
(13:00):
if you're unhealthy in one or two ofthe areas, it could very much impact.
It will impact how you show up, right?
It could then be detrimentalto the work that you do.
And so when we're li,when we're working with.
real people with lives who are, you know,we're talking vulnerable people, right?
Vulnerable populations.
We're working with children, right?
(13:21):
When we're working with people in need.
We're working in medical settings, right?
We're working in spaces where people arerelying on us to be our best self, right?
And so if we're not our best self,I feel that's an ethical.issue.
So that's what I'll say about
Casey Dwyer (13:36):
I just want it on record that I agree with.
Shanza Isom (13:37):
Can you not hear my passion?
Casey
. . Casey Dwyer: I think what you're saying about the prioritization of that, Really
ties to preparedness because, and thisis, I mean, this is something that we did
back in the day when I was in your class.
It's coming up with plans for ourself-care because you really just
(14:01):
don't have, when you get to the pointwhere you really desperately need that
self-care, hopefully you're not gettingto the point where it's desperate.
But when you are and you don't have a.
, there's no energy to tap intofor coming up with what works.
But if you have a, you know, a littleknowledge base at the ready of, here's
what I know I need and I know thatit changes from situation to situation
(14:25):
circumstance, I think that's huge.
And yeah,
I mean, well, let's think about it in this way when we're
working with people and you willunderstand this because of the work
that you do when you're working withpeople and you think about crises,
we always talk about a safety.
We also talk about, you know, in oursociety people are aware of these, of
the, of this language and we operatein this way within social work.
(14:46):
But when you think aboutprevention and intervention, right?
That's how I look at self-care.
That oftentimes when we're talkingabout self-care in our society,
we're talking about interventionwhen things have fallen apart.
what are you doing?
Right?
I like to think about it, andthis is where that radical
piece comes in for me, right?
It's not just managing in themidst of mess, which is how I
like to talk about it, right?
(15:08):
But how are we preventing some of that?
How are we caring for and prioritizingourselves with intention from the jump
to hopefully minimize those other spaces?
We're not gonna prevent thembecause we cannot predict.
. Right?
And so we can't pre,we can't prevent them.
However, we can work from a preventionlens and set ourselves up right?
(15:31):
In such a way that we minimize them orthat we're prepared in a different way or
that we're intervening earlier on, right?
And so all of those things make, which isagain why I talked about marrying these.
It makes perfect sense.
And.
We still have not, we still have notstepped into a place of incorporating
(15:52):
that with intention into curriculumor honestly with young kids.
Side note, but very much related.
Made a Facebook post yesterday.
The week before Thanksgiving.
I have a 15 year old theweek before Thanksgiving.
He's a sophomore.
He's really busy right now.
Right.
You know, he's in a college prep program.
He's in the, you know,advanced college academy.
So he's in all, you know, AP classes.
(16:14):
He plays tennis.
He's a girlfriend for the first time.
Right.
So he's trying to hang out with his.
put this new girlfriend in,trying to manage friends.
He's doing community service.
He's a lot going on.
He manages pretty well.
It's all stuff that he wants to do.
And this was the weekend beforeThanksgiving and he came to me, you know,
one night and he kind of climbed in mybed and he said mom, I'm overwhelmed.
and I said, you are?
(16:35):
And he said, yeah, right.
So nobody wants to hear that.
And he's like, you're 15.
You don't know overwhelmed yet.
And yet they do.
Right?
I'm overwhelmed.
And I said, what do you need, baby?
You know, he's like, I don'tknow, but like, like I'm
really like, I'm struggling.
I mean, in other words,he's like, I'm struggling.
And I said, . So I asked him againabout what he needed and he still,
he couldn't articulate that becausewe don't talk about this a lot.
(16:57):
And my kids, I've done this since theywere little and he's still struggling.
And I said, so let mepropose some things, right?
Because sometimes what we needis for people to give us ideas.
Self-care is very individual.
That's right.
It looks, it's individualized.
What I do, what you do is different,but when you don't know, Right.
It's helpful to hear at least someideas and then you can pick and
choose or you can try and taste right.
(17:18):
And so I gave some ideas.
I named a few things, you know andone of the things that I named,
it was like the third one down.
I said, or, you know, we canhave a skip day and you can
skip school and I can skip work.
And we can just hang out.
And he's like, let's do that.
And I said, okay.
And I said, well, one of the thingsthat I want you to remember, Elijah,
is when you're feeling things tothis level where he, I could see
(17:39):
him being a little emotional.
When you feel things to this level, it'simportant that you tend to it immediately.
So what's your schedule this week?
Let's not put Thanksgiving is next week.
So we often, and I say this to say,as adults, we often say, but I have
the holiday coming up, but I havethis coming up, or I have a day
off, or if I can do two more weeks,then I'm gonna take some time.
Well, the reality is I'moverwhelmed now in two weeks from.
(17:59):
it's gonna be 10 times worse.
So how do I, right.
And so we tend to put things offuntil we're so, and you know,
we're such in a bad place thatit takes more to recover from it.
So my thing is, this isimmediate, let's deal with it now.
And so we looked at a schedule and twodays later we took the day off, right?
And we went shopping.
And we went to Dave and Bustersand did the arcade and we ate,
(18:20):
and it was just the two of us.
And I could see him breathing right, just.
breathing.
And he needed that.
And it's okay that hemissed whatever he missed.
And it's okay that I canceledall my meetings, right?
Because I wanted to model,and this is where I'm taking
it back to teaching, right?
I wanted to model what it meantto prioritize yourself, right?
(18:40):
It's one thing to say, okay, baby,well, maybe you can, you know, do this
a little differently or go take a bath.
Or how about you breathetonight and skip, right?
But I wanted to model it.
Let me do it.
I'm gonna do it with.
I wanna show you exactlywhat this looks like.
And so, you know, for me, I feel likeit's never too early to teach that.
And unfortunately, I already feellike by the time I get college
(19:01):
students, it's like foreign.
It's like what does that mean?
What does that look like?
You know?
And so I enjoy when I'm able to bein the community and teach people,
especially parents and teachers whoare working with our young kids, so
they're not like us as adults andjust trying to figure this thing.
Granted, when life happens, wehave to refigure it out anyway,
but sometimes we have, so we haveno real concept of what it means.
(19:26):
What makes you happy?
What fills you up?
The number of adults that Iwork with who can't answer those
questions, you wouldn't believe it.
You know, it's like, I have no idea.
You know, and it's like, okay, wellwe're starting at a different place.
And so I just, I find itvery important for us.
Prioritize that.
And when I talk about thatethically, professionally, I feel
like that extends just much greaterthan just professionally, right?
(19:49):
I'm obligated to self, I'm obligatedto my children, and I see my
friend's, children, my family, right?
My students like, it's my responsibilityto make sure that you have what,
you have, the tools that you need.
It's up to you to use them, but that youhave the tools that you need so that when
it's time to use them, you have something.
(20:11):
and I feel like that's a hugegap for us in our society.
Casey Dwyer (20:16):
I have so many thoughts.
My first thought is sort of aboutboundaries in self-care because
it's not easy to say, yeah, Ihave to cancel these meanings.
And it's not easy to say, youknow, I really just don't have
the capacity for that right now.
But it, I'm always glad when I do, there'snever a time where I'm like, man, I wish
(20:41):
I had been dishonest about my capacity.
It's always like, why wasn't I honest?
Why didn't I tell them thatI didn't have space for that?
And I,
Shanza Isom (20:49):
it's not easy Casey, because we haven't normalized it.
Casey Dwyer (20:52):
Right?
Right.
There's guilt with it andthere's this feeling of like,
why am I not able to do it all?
But that's part of the modeling, like,And maybe this is just a way that I
make myself feel better, but I thinkwhen I say no to something or I tell
someone, you know, that I, you know,can I do that another time because
(21:13):
I really just can't do it right now.
There I remind myself, you know what?
You just stood up for yourself.
You stood up for your needs.
Shanza Isom (21:20):
Yep.
Casey Dwyer (21:21):
You stood up for your wellness.
And even if the other persondoesn't realize it, that was
good for them to witness.
This is all good and helpfulbecause it's not normalized.
So here's my little pebblethat I'm throwing it.
Shanza Isom (21:33):
Yeah.
Casey Dwyer (21:33):
The health normalize.
. Shanza Isom (21:35):
Yeah, and you know it almost saddens me We don't feel like
we have permission to set boundariesfor ourselves, which is fascinating to
me because if we don't set boundariesfor ourselves, they won't exist.
Right.
And so but it, but you're right,there's a lot of these other
feelings that come with that.
And that's a cultural thing, that's asocietal issue that, that we struggle
(21:55):
with and yeah, we haven't normalized it.
So you feel bad for doing it,or you feel like, I can't cancel
these meetings tomorrow becausepeople are depending on me?
Well, you know, I'm depending on.
for me too.
Right.
And so, yeah, I, and I, you knowit's funny, and I'm gonna be honest,
I didn't feel bad canceling mymeetings that day, like at all.
I would not recommend that we goaround canceling meetings all the time.
(22:16):
Right.
. Right.
I mean, you know, and I recognizedone that my son needed me, and
honestly, I needed a day too, right?
And those meetings will wait untiltomorrow or until I can reschedule them.
And I, you know, As a commonpractice, not the best thing.
You're actually going to create morestress for yourself if you procrastinate
and put things off all the time.
(22:37):
Right.
But that's not what that was.
Right.
And recognizing the differenceand being aware of your capacity.
And in order to do that, youhave to spend time reflecting.
Right.
But you have to be taught to do that too.
Right.
It's this interesting, it'sthis interesting thing.
and you know, being able to setboundaries and whatever that looks
like for you, that's a self-carestrategy, as I like to say, right?
That's a strategy, it's a necessity.
(22:58):
But it's a strategy.
Put that in your toolbox.
You need to practice that on occasionso you know what it feels like, right?
You need to reflect on that dayto day, because my capacity this
week will look different next week.
My capacity today looksdifferent from tomorrow, right?
And so I have to be aware of it atall times in order to then respond
appropriately and that it's okay to pause.
and take breaths.
Right?
It's okay to reflect and to be sure it'sokay to say, let me get back to you.
(23:22):
Right?
We exist in a space where everythinghas to be kind of immediate and
we move so fast, you know, but thepausing and reflecting the, taking
the time, the, I'll get back to you.
Those are all okay.
I'm not sure.
Let me think about it.
, you know, and get back to you.
You know, I think that scene somuch now is like a rejection,
or, oh, that must mean no, thatmeans, I wanna think about it.
(23:44):
and thinking is good, you know,and so but it's interesting.
We don't give ourselves permissionor others to take care of themselves.
And that's that radical piece, right?
You can't wait for.
. Right.
You owe it to yourself.
You know I think it's, you know if you'veheard the term unapologetic, right?
That, that's what it is.
It's unapologetic.
(24:04):
Right?
And it's inten it's not withan apology that I say, no, . It
may be unfortunate for you.
And there's a reason behind my no.
And I don't owe an explanation.
. Right.
I really don't.
And the same with yes.
You know, we need to give ourselvespermission to say yes too.
That's a whole different conversationand yet related as well, right?
Sometimes we set different types ofboundaries and sometimes we need to give
(24:26):
ourselves a yes, permission as well.
But those are all strategies.
If we don't model those, if wedon't teach those, how do you
know you're not born knowing?
right?
It has to come from somewhere.
And unfortunately for most of us,it comes with education over time.
It comes with experience.
It comes with the negative consequencesin you learning from your mistakes.
(24:46):
And that's okay sometimes in life.
And yet, the tools exist.
The knowledge exists, right?
And so why don't , you know, from apension standpoint, why not address
some of these things with a littlemore intention a little earlier.
And so that's part of why I do thework that I do in the community.
That's part of why I try to incorporateas much as I can into my classes.
(25:07):
And honestly, I feel like it's nowherenear enough, but at this point it's
just, I'm trying to just drop littleseeds, right little seeds, which
is why I've then created the coursesbecause now I can delve into it, right?
I can't really do that in myother classes in the same way.
And so I'm really excited about thesecourses and I cannot wait to have.
to propose that they're arequired part of the curriculum.
I've also recently worked on acurriculum outside of teaching with
(25:30):
a colleague of mine with the Innerwork center a mindful wellbeing
curriculum that was open to anybody inthe community and it went excellent.
We, we created the entirecurriculum and we're now about
to do it for the second time withstaff for Henrico County Schools.
And what I'm hoping to do the thirdtime around then is offer it through.
If possible n a s w as a professionaldevelopment for social workers.
(25:50):
Right?
Like what is mindful wellbeing for socialworkers look like, and then maybe I'll
do something else after that, right?
But my hope is to eventually reach asmany people as possible in all different
types of settings, because we all need it.
right in, in some way, shape or form.
What it may look like could vary.
But we all need the spaceto be intentional about it.
(26:12):
We all need the space toreflect on it for ourselves.
We don't take that time day to day, right?
And so when you have these spaces,when I was doing that workshop with the
college students, one of the things thatthey said was this, the first time I
spent time really like really thinking.
that for myself, right?
Because when we tend to thinkabout it is when we need it most.
And as you mentioned, it's likely theworst time to think about it because we're
(26:33):
not in a space to do that well, you know?
Casey Dwyer (26:37):
Absolutely.
I would love it if you, Imean, you have so many things
that you're passionate about.
You have so many
Shanza Isom (26:44):
I do!
'Laughing"
Casey Dwyer (26:45):
projects, , so many, like, so many things you're working on, and I
think it's important and you mentioned.
You know when you were first talking aboutwhat you do, this idea of double work
and making sure that everything you'redoing doesn't feel like double work.
So I would just love for you to share,I mean, I hate this cuz it sounds
cliche, but how you balance it allbecause I, there are ways to mindfully
(27:10):
be very engaged in the community, bevery involved without overdoing it.
And it seems like, , you'redoing that well,
. Shanza Isom: I am.
I am trying to do that.
Well you know I have some people who willsay things like, you know, I want chance
to come because you're an expert at this.
And an expert just means that you'vedone enough research, you've practiced
it enough that you may have a littlemore knowledge than the average person.
(27:32):
Right.
I recognize that also, . SometimesI don't think people realize
that I'm still learning too.
The more that I do it,the more that I learn.
Right?
And so, and the more that I'm doingthis and prioritizing this work,
the more I'm reminded to prioritizethe practice for myself, right?
That's the beautiful part about doingwhat you're passionate about because
(27:53):
it doesn't feel like extra work.
. Right.
It's actually the part thatmakes me the most excited.
And so from a capacity standpoint,with time, I have to be mindful
because I can't do everything.
I just cannot, even when Iwant to, I can't do it all.
And when I'm doing thosethings, they feel good.
They're not taking from me, right?
And so trying to find, and that's.
(28:15):
, probably a separate conversation, butI talk to people a lot about, you know,
when you're thinking about findingyour purpose, right, it's usually those
things that give you the feeling, right?
Where it's like, I may be doing a lotof this, but it feels so good, right?
And so that's another conversation, but.
The business that I startedis called Be Well Right?
And it's self-care andholistic life balance.
And so you brought up that balance.
And I thought about that because,you know I tend to not care for the
(28:37):
term or phrase work-life balance.
I've kind of moved away from thatbecause life is, work is a part of life.
Like I work life balance that, thatdoesn't make sense to me in the same way.
It's just, it's life balance, right?
And work is a piece of that.
Home is a piece of that, right?
Me and my role as.mom, right?
And my home is separate from me andmy role as partner and me and my
(29:01):
role, you know, with my nonprofitsand that sort of thing, right?
But they all are part of my life.
And so it's all me.
It's me trying to figure out andfind balance within those things.
So when I think about balancing it, Ithink the first thing that comes to mind
is really, you know, we've used this worda lot and it's gonna be kind of funny
now, but you know, that awareness piece.
Right where I have to check inwith myself on a regular basis.
(29:24):
I was just joking with my studentstoday when I mentioned something
and I, I told them and I said, yeah.
And so, you know, I said, youknow, I can't do that right now.
You know, and so going back to thiscomment and they laughed at it,
you know, like, oh my gosh, I can'tbelieve you told me you can do it.
And it's like what's wrong with that?
Something wrong with that.
And so the balance piecefor me starts with.
Regular check-ins with self, right?
(29:46):
Regular moments to reflect on, okay,how are you really Shanza like, I,
like, I laugh when I when I ask peoplethis question, so, you know, how are
you, okay, but how are you really?
In other words, let's be honest,let's be vulnerable, right?
And sometimes our gut response forhow are you is not really how we are.
. And so allowing ourselves to be honestand truthful to be real and vulnerable.
(30:08):
And if you can't do that withyourself you're gonna have
a really hard time in life.
And so to do my honest check-in andsometimes that's a, you're doing a
little too much baby girl , right?
This is beautiful.
And you're not sleeping.
This is wonderful.
And.
, right?
And so and I often say thatinstead of the butt, right?
(30:29):
Because you know both are existing, right?
And sometimes they're inconflict with one another.
And sometimes they're just both existing.
And so now I need to figure out,okay, so what do I do with the
fact that they're both here?
And so that initial checking inwith self, and when I mentioned
that I asked my son what he.
So often we don't know what we need.
You know, when friends call youand they're stressed, well, you
(30:51):
know, what do you need right now?
I don't know.
You know, and oftentimes it's becauseyou can't fill that need, right?
But if you're not able to reflect andidentify the need within self then even
you can't fill it personally, right?
And so I'm constantly reflectingon where am I right now?
Right?
That's that mindfulness piece,being able to drop completely in,
you know, where am I right now?
What am I.
(31:12):
, what am I thinking?
What do I need right now?
And then being willing andable to offer myself grace.
And be kind and gentle because we're oftensuper kind and gentle with other people
and very harsh and critical of self.
And so I often will, you know, kind of,if you imagine it giving yourself like
an internal hug and squeeze, you know,just a little gentleness, you know,
oh, that's really difficult right now.
(31:34):
Or you're going with a roughpatch right now, baby , you know,
like just talking to myself.
And showing a little kindnessand then reflecting on, you
know, what do you need right now?
Sometimes for me that balancemeans looking at my schedule and
figuring out what I need to take off.
, right?
Sometimes for me that means figuringout, you know, okay, I need connection.
Maybe putting in someopportunities to be with people.
(31:54):
Maybe that means I needtherapy session right now.
Maybe that means, right, maybe thatjust means I need a day off, right?
Maybe that means I need a hug.
Maybe I need a good cry.
You know?
And that's okay too.
You know, maybe I need some metime and I need maybe I need.
maybe I need sleep.
But whatever the need is,being able to name it.
And oftentimes because we don'tlook at ourselves as holistically
(32:17):
as would be beneficial.
You know, I oftentimes I thinkabout myself and I think about like
the dimensions of wellness, right?
And so, you know, what is my.
Body need right now.
What does my physical self need?
Right?
Well, in order to determine that, I needto know where I am physically, right?
For me, body scans help with that.
I'm able to determine, I have alot of a lot, maybe a stretch.
I have some medical issues that causephysical pain, you know, so I'm able
(32:39):
to reflect and check in on where mybody is, you know, what's needed there.
You know, emotionally, where are youemotionally Shanza oh, that's where
I'm struggling the most right now.
Right.
And I'm able to say that.
And when I work with students, you know,we're able to say, well, I'm doing really
good right now and physically, you know,I'm doing really good kind of with my
social connections and my support systems.
Those things do really good.
Psychologically, I feel likeI'm all right, you know, and
(33:01):
then I'll have students say, Ithink emotionally I'm a mess.
But being able to tease that.
, right?
Because when you're feeling off,or when you're feeling overwhelmed
or anxious or stressed, it's hardto pinpoint the root cause, right?
And without a root cause it's hard tothen it's hard to then act on it, right?
It's hard to, it's hardto then address it.
(33:22):
And so you have toidentify the root cause.
So for me, balance looks like creatingspace to do all of those things, right?
And so I could recognize that mywhole self consists of multiple parts.
And when anyone is off right,lacking it creates this it's
no longer balanced, right?
You don't feel like there's a balancethat may not be the word that you use or
(33:43):
may feel like, I feel a little off, or Ifeel a little right, and that's because
something needs tendon to, and thatdoesn't mean that everything is equal.
right?
It's not necessarily equal all thetime, but everything plays a part.
And when something is lacking orneglected or or there's a need you
feel it somewhere within you and it,you have to spend time going inward to
(34:03):
figure out where that's coming from.
And oftentimes I find that it'shelpful to look at the parts of self.
Right.
And to figure out, okay, well maybe it'sphysical, well maybe it's emotional.
Well, you know, and oh, you know,I haven't spent time with anybody
that I loved in a long time,and I'm feeling a little sad.
No wonder I'm down.
Right.
That makes sense.
I thought it was just the cold weather.
(34:24):
Maybe that's it too.
You know, maybe it's alittle seasonal stuff.
But I also haven't, I haven't had fun.
I haven't been hugged in a while, right?
I haven't funny story.
I was asked to do to speak at forthe pilot International, which is a
service organization, and this wasone of their yearly, like annual.
Conventions and they asked me to speakon mindful leadership, and I can't
(34:46):
remember the topic, but basicallycaring for yourself in the midst
of serving and what does that mean?
And in the midst of change,their topic was on change.
And how do you care for yourself in themidst of change, which is interesting.
Interesting because change can throwoff your whole equilibrium, right?
And so they wanted to talk about,okay, so much has changed due to
covid and we're really strugglingas an organization, right?
And so how do you care for yourselfand how does the organization move
(35:09):
forward in the midst of change?
And I had a, I asked a question andoh, I asked about, what do you need?
So I was given an example and Isaid, if I were to throw this to
the group and if I were to ask you.
So just spend a second.
I had them spend a little timereflecting and to reflect on what do
you need right now in this moment?
If you were to identifywhat need what do you need?
And I gave them a minute and I came backand said, okay, who would like to share?
(35:30):
And somebody shared, somebody mentionedsleep, you know, these little things.
And then this older woman who.
Truly reminded me of my grandma, likeprobably in her eighties stood up
and actually she didn't stand first.
She raised her hand and I said yeah,stand up and if you're able to stand.
So she stood and I said, talk to me.
What do you need?
And she said, if I'm gonnabe honest, I need a hug.
I haven't had one in a year and a half.
(35:51):
Casey, my heart broke.
When we think about the impactthat this pandemic have had on all
of us we've all been affected insome way, shape, or form, right?
We don't have to judge it.
We don't have to call it good or bad.
We've all been affected insome way, shape or form.
Some people have ha have been affected.
I won't say more in a way that I thinkhas impacted them more negatively.
Right.
(36:11):
And so when she said, I haven't hada hug in a year and a half, everybody
in the room just, yeah, your facialexpression is what happened, right?
Everybody looked like they wanted to cry.
And I said, I'm gonna give you a hug ifyou're okay with it, mask and all right?
I said, if you're okaywith it, I wanna hug you.
And she said, yeah.
And so I gave her the.best Hug.
(36:34):
She hugged me for so long, Casey,you would've thought we had a
personal relationship first of all.
Right?
But the importance ofphysical contact, it's huge.
And I'm imagining, I don't know if thisis true, but in my head, all I could
think is this woman is living by herself.
I could be wrong, right?
She'd be living 50 people.
But all I can think was is this woman isliving by herself in the midst of Covid.
(36:57):
And because she's an olderwoman, she is likely more at.
risk, right, for Covid, andit's being very intentional about
spending time with people, whichmeans she's been extremely isolated.
She doesn't work.
I didn't know that, right?
And my heart broke because I'mthinking a year and a half without
being physically touched, impactsyou way more than we think.
(37:20):
, right?
That, that's huge.
That's not healthy.
. Okay.
That's not healthy.
And something so, so small.
And when we were o when it was over, youknow, I had a conversation with her and
a few people came around and we justtalked a little bit about if it weren't
for that question, you know, she said Iwouldn't have, like, I didn't know, like,
of course I'm missing people, right.
But I didn't think about just the hug.
(37:40):
would make such a difference, right?
So that's what I'm talking about, right?
Finding those things.
And in order to do that, we have tocheck in with ourselves and we have to
create space to determine our needs.
And we have to be able to have thatawareness in order to find and in
order to create balance, right.
And balance looksdifferent for each of us.
And so if you're not doing the individualwork, you're not gonna figure it
(38:01):
out because there's no prescription.
right there.
There's no prescription.
There's no one answer to that.
Yeah.
And
there's so much curiosity that's needed for that of Yeah.
Something's not right,so that coming from?
And it's usually, at least in myexperience, it's the harder roots
are the tougher feelings thatare a little bit harder to place.
Shanza Isom (38:22):
Yep.
Casey Dwyer (38:23):
But as long as we're giving it some.
Some gentle questioning we get there.
Shanza Isom (38:29):
Yeah.
And sometimes we can'tdo that by ourselves.
Casey Dwyer (38:31):
Right, right.
Shanza Isom (38:32):
Sometimes we may need help of other people.
Sometimes we may need to.
See counseling or therapy.
Sometimes we may need some people,for some people, you know, maybe a
pastor, for some people, a close friend,sometimes we can't get there by ourselves.
We need somebody to poke and prod.
Right.
But it's the space that's required, right?
It's that space that has to becreated with intention, right?
Or we won't get anywhere.
Casey Dwyer (38:53):
I think I'll never stop being amazed at the power of creating
that space, like what that does.
when I create that space formyself, or I create it for someone
else, or it's created for me,it is transformative, literally.
Every single time.
Shanza Isom (39:10):
Yeah.
And I think what's interestingis I don't think we realize how
necessary, like that can't be optional.
Right.
And that's the issue.
And yet how do you learnabout the importance?
Right.
So when we reflect on, one of the thingsthat I like to do in some of my workshops
is I ask people to reflect on whendid you first learn about self-care?
Right?
Let's go back, when didyou first learn about it?
(39:31):
When did you first learnabout the definition?
When did you first learn about thepractices and what it looks like?
And usually it's really interestingbecause I'll either have people say,
truly, I learn about it in college.
Right, or I learned about it as a parent.
It's adults.
It's very rare that I, you know, peoplehave heard the concept as a kid maybe,
but where did you really learn about it?
And then when I say practices,I get a lot of pauses.
(39:52):
And usually I'll get people to say, oh,in college I took a class, or I had a
professor who, you know or, well, asa parent, I just kind of figured it
out that I needed to do this thing.
You know, I don't even knowwhat it is, but I need to do it.
Or you get the blank faces.
The, well, I don't knowif I know that yet.
, you know, I don't think I know what Ikind of try to do to take care of myself.
But I don't think I'veever been taught that.
(40:14):
Right.
And that's the piecethat I think is missing.
And unfortunately, I don't havethe superpower that I want to have.
We all have superpowers.
I don't have the one that I wantto have because if I did, I would
be able to to create spaces acrossour whole world for these sorts of
conversations and to teach this.
Right.
But I haven't figured out howto do that completely yet.
So I'm just doing it in little pockets.
'laughing',
Casey Dwyer (40:35):
the pockets are making a difference in there.
Differences.
Well I don't wanna take up toomuch more of your time, but I would
love to, we know we're recordingthis amidst the holiday season.
We are about to approach the timeof year where everybody's talking
about very rigid goal setting.
In a way that I personally, Ithink can be pretty unhealthy.
(40:56):
This whole concept of self-improvementusually at the expense of other things.
So I would just love to hear yourthoughts on how we can move through the
holidays and the new year mindfully.
How we can set intentions gently.
Shanza Isom (41:11):
Yeah, I mean the holidays are definitely, can be
challenging for people I think.
All the things.
So maybe from exciting to anxietyprovoking to very emotional,
traumatic for some people, right?
Holidays can I think evokeall types of feelings.
And I think the mindful pieceis really important, right?
So when you think about mindfulness, Ilike to use John Kaba zinn's definition.
And it's really, you know,it's paying attention , right?
(41:32):
And it's doing so on purpose, right?
So now we're talking intentionally,right on purpose in the present moment.
So the, right now, this iswhere you are because this is
all we've got for real, right?
And then without judgment.
, and that's that kindness, thatgentleness, that grace that
sometimes we forget, right?
And so when you think about those threeaspects and you think about setting
(41:53):
intentions, I always I encouragepeople to start from there, right?
And to think about and I justmentioned this before, but you know,
moments of pause and reflection,offering yourself and others,
grace spending time with gratitude.
right?
We're so quick to thinkabout, okay, what's next?
What do I need to do next?
But starting from those places,I think allow for you to enter
(42:16):
a little more gently, right?
So when you start from grace, whenyou start from gratitude, right?
When you start from no judgment, itallows for you to really think a little
differently about what the, what about,what your journey, what your aims
are, what your goals may be, right?
A little differently, right?
And so I.
. You know, when you think about this theconcept of more radical self-care and
(42:39):
taking care of yourself and whateverthat may mean for you without apology
in the midst of anxiety and stressand all these other emotions, I.
, I en, I would encourage people tobegin with a place from a place
that's more kind and gentle, offeringyourself a little gratitude and grace.
And then this is where really mylast conversation fits perfectly
(43:00):
here in order to set intentions.
, you have to go inward, right?
I mean, you have to bring abouta sense of awareness in order
to aim for anything, right?
What motivates you?
What are you passionate about?
Where would you like your journey to be?
I mean, any and all of that.
You can't do any of thatwithout going inward.
(43:20):
And so I encourage people to think about,, you know what does that look like for you?
What are your priorities?
Right?
Intentions help to providea little focus, right?
It gives us motivation but trying tokeep a positive outlook, not so positive
that it's not productive, right?
But we're talking realistic, right?
We want to set ourselves.
(43:42):
For success in life, we wannaself our, set ourselves up for
wellness, wanna set ourselves upfor happiness for love, right?
All of those positive things.
And if you enter from a place ofunrealistic expectations, more
harsh and rigid language or spacesit really sets you up for critical.
right.
Feedback to self afterwards, right?
(44:02):
Any opportunity that you didn'tmeet a goal, for example you're more
likely to be critical when you'rea little more open, when you're a
little more and not just positive.
I mean, it really islike more grace oriented.
Just more kind on a very basic level.
I think you're, you tend tobe a little more I think,
clear, a little less judgey andhonestly a little more flexible.
(44:27):
And I think kind of that flexibility,although sometimes when we think
about kind of aims and goals, wethink we wanna be very specific.
But specific doesn't mean rigid.
, right?
We're just talking clarity.
you just wanna be clear, right?
That doesn't mean rigid.
And you can be clear andallow for flexibility.
You can be clear and allow for grace.
You can be clear and be gentle andkind, and allow yourself the opportunity
(44:51):
to redirect, to change, and to shift.
as necessary.
It's not a yes or no.
I did it or I didn't.
Right.
It could be a, okay, this iswhere I was going, this was my
intention, and some things change.
So how do I move in this direction?
What does that mean for me?
What does that look like?
What do I want from this?
What was my goal?
And like, what was my purpose behindcreating this and how do I, now, how
(45:14):
do I look at that a little differently?
Right?
Which is a lot lesscritical and a lot more.
open and gentle.
And so I just I encouragepeople to start from a space.
If you're end goal is to, and most people,I think this is a part of most people
end goals, is to be healthy, right?
To be happy, to be loved, right?
(45:34):
I mean, some of those positive things, youcannot do that if you're starting from a
place that is not also positive, right?
Like, like you, you just, you can't, you,part of that is really creating the space.
your, you know, I like to talkabout heart spaces, right?
From a heart space that's alreadykind, that's already gentle.
The way that you would do it witha kid, the way that you would do
(45:55):
it with your best friend, right?
If , they were talking about goals,the way that we would talk to them
about that and how to get to thatand, oh, we'll be, you know, if
that doesn't work out, that's okay.
This is what, right.
Our language is a lot different.
And so how do you startthere with yourself?
Because then that languagewill continue to flow.
That flexibility willbe present, that open.
That willingness to make shiftsand changes as they arise.
(46:18):
Life is unpredictable and while it'sbeautiful to have goals and to set
intentions and to aim for certainthings and to allow for that to motivate
you it is just as important to allowfor the possibility of whatever.
I'll stop with that.
. Casey Dwyer: I just am thinking when you leave room, For flexibility.
(46:39):
You leave space for really good thingsto enter in like that goes beyond
just what we're bringing to the table.
If we have flexibility for howour goals can change, then there's
space for extra good things thatwe couldn't possibly anticipate.
That's right.
And we have to remember that inmany ways we don't have control.
(46:59):
In many ways.
We don't have the power.
That we think we do right?
And some we do.
But in, in many ways we can't predicthow things are gonna turn out.
And we don't have control overeverything that comes our way.
And so we can set intentions, we can aimfor certain things we can be motivated to
do, to accomplish all these great things.
(47:21):
And if we don't leave, for not onlythe good things, but for life to happen.
, we will be disappointed, we will be hurt,and we'll be thrown off so much that we
can't, if you can't then redirect Right.
Or bounce back a little bit.
Right.
When you think about, I don't reallywanna use the word resiliency here,
but for lack of a better word, right?
It really fosters that.
(47:41):
And it's important for us becauselife will continue to happen.
Like it's not gonna stop.
It will continue to happen.
And I think personally that's a beautiful.
Right?
Some things that happencan be horrific, right?
So some can throw you off, some canbe painful, some can be trauma right?
All those negative things arepossible for all of us, and some
can be absolutely beautiful andlife altering in the best of ways.
(48:05):
And so we, we have to always allowfor life and be okay with that.
a little bit, you know?
Casey Dwyer (48:13):
It's here.
. Shanza Isom: It's, that's right.
. That's right.
So I would love for you to share.
, if you have any resources, and ifthere's too many to list, we can always
just link them in the description.
Any resources you would recommend forlisteners who are wanting to learn more
about some of what we've discussed?
Shanza Isom (48:30):
Yeah, I would love to send you a list in addition, because I do,
I try to keep resources because, so Icould definitely send you some things.
One of the things that comes to mindfor me, and only because I used it
recently, Wellness from within.
I don't know if you've ever heardof it, but they have like a little
booklet, which is really cool and Ithink you can download it for free.
I find it's a really good place tostart if you haven't done any real work
(48:51):
with kind of holistic wellbeing andreally trying to look at like you as
a whole person in all parts of itself.
It's a really good, I think, start.
But I do have some other resources andI'll happily I'll happily link them.
Casey Dwyer (49:01):
So now for the question we ask all of our
guests, , what does the process ofawareness to action mean to you?
Shanza Isom (49:09):
So it's interesting because I think throughout a few
times, you know, I've kind of broughtup this concept of awareness and what
that means and and I think, you know,increasing one's awareness, right?
So when I think about awareness toaction increasing one's awareness.
allows for the opportunity, Ithink, to be educated which I
(49:31):
think is necessary in order to act.
And when I say educated, I don'tnecessarily mean outside education, right?
I'm talking even when we gowithin, that's educating, right?
And so increasing thaton any level, right?
So increasing that personal awareness,increasing awareness of impact of
you know, , the outside world onus when I was talking about the
impact of covid or what have you.
(49:51):
Right?
But when you spend some timeto focus on and become more
aware, , you are then able to act.
You can't really act withoutawareness because then that's
not intentional anymore, right?
So in order to be intentional,which when we're acting, we wanna be
intentional because typically we'reacting for a desired outcome, . And
so in order to do that, that therehas to first be a level of awareness.
(50:12):
And again, whether that's personal, right?
So we're talking personal awarenessfor our own wellbeing, or if we're
talking within community so thatwe can advocate for change, it
really doesn't matter the level.
, you have to start from a placeof awareness so that you can then
educate yourself, find resources,whatever you need to do, right?
To align yourself bestto then move and to act.
So that's what comes to mind for me.
(50:33):
And as I think about that, Ithink on my personal journey.
. I think that's that, thatresonates in the same way as it
does on my professional journey.
I think it is the exact same for mewhen I think about my profession and
when I think about my work with my kids.
Right?
Like it really is the same for me.
That that awareness is neededprior to any action in order to
act from a place of intention.
Casey Dwyer (50:53):
I love your use of the word alignment in that.
I really like that a lot.
Shanza Isom (50:59):
It's a beautiful word by the way.
Casey Dwyer (51:00):
Yeah,
Shanza Isom (51:01):
I like words.
So,
. Casey Dwyer: Well, Shanza thank you so much for taking the time to be with us.
As we've already discussed, Iknow you have a whole lot on
your plate, a lot of good things.
And I'm just really grateful forthis this whole conversation that
just feels very uplifting to me.
(51:21):
And, you know, our 2021Awareness to Action.
Episodes will be ending with thisone, and it feels like a really
great one to take us into 2022.
So thanks for being here.
I am just very grateful for the opportunity to be here,
to see your face for one again.
It's really nice to see you tosee the work that you're doing.
I'm really excited for you and honestlyproud of you because I do feel like I
(51:45):
was here and a part of your journey.
And so
Casey Dwyer (51:47):
absolutely.
Shanza Isom (51:47):
I'm really proud of you and where you are right now.
And I think that this podcastis, You know, necessary.
Like it's really needed.
And I'm hoping that whatever Ioffer today benefits somebody.
I was very excited to be a part of it.
And after talking to you, I'mhoping you can see my passions.
Yeah.
I'm really easy to find, by theway, if anybody's interested in
reaching out and talking a littlemore about what, you mindful living
(52:12):
or You know, setting intentions orjust holistic wellbeing overall.
I'm open, but I appreciate you having me.
This was a real highlight of myday and you talked about this being
the episode that wraps up for you.
This is the last thing of my dayand I think it really has set
the tone for my long drive homeand I'm feeling really good and.
So thank you.
Good.
Well, we'll make sure that we shareall of your information for all
(52:35):
the things you're involved in andfor you in the episode description.
And
that'll be that.
Thank you.
I appreciate you Casey.
Thanks for listening, andthank you to Hanza for joining.
Make sure you subscribe to Awareness toAction so you don't miss out on any of the
(52:57):
conversations we have coming up in 2022.
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