August 28, 2025 • 27 mins
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Nick Brunicini, Terry Garrison, and Pat Dale examine the vital connection between internal department culture and external customer service in the fire service.
The Silverback Leadership Series offers veteran fire chiefs' wisdom on leveraging strategic planning to shape department culture and improve service delivery. Fire service leaders discuss practical approaches to create meaningful change that lasts beyond a chief's tenure.
• Strategic plans must become living documents rather than shelf decorations
• Involve approximately 30% of personnel in developing strategic plans to ensure buy-in
• Focus on tackling the top priorities each year with quarterly progress reports
• Develop simple, memorable messaging that captures your department's values
• Empower company officers as the critical link between administration and service delivery
• Trust must flow throughout the organization for strategic initiatives to succeed
• Define what empowerment means with clear parameters for personnel
• Celebrate "added value" service that exceeds basic emergency response
• Create consistent departmental culture rather than different approaches by shift or station
• Align strategic objectives with daily work so they become "what you do now"
The Blue Card Hazard Zone Conference is coming to Sharonville, Ohio, September 29th through October 3rd. Register now at bshifter.com to secure your spot in workshops and general sessions.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Hello and welcome to the B Shifter podcast.
I'm John Vance, your host.
I'm actually home hanging outfor Labor Day weekend.
Hopefully you're going to beable to spend a little bit of
time with your friends andfamily this Labor Day.
This is Thursday, august 28th,and as we're gearing up for the
Labor Day holiday, we thoughtwe'd bring you a podcast today
(00:29):
from the Silverbacks.
This is more advice from ourSilverback're, not on Blue Card.
This will give you a littletaste of what the Silverback
(00:49):
Leadership Series is all about,what we're talking about and
some of the relevant topics thatwe have for today's fire
service.
And today we'll be talkingabout things like strategic
planning and what you should doas a leader, especially the fire
chief, if you have a strategicplan, talking about it,
communicating it, how importantit is to communicate it on a
(01:12):
continuous basis.
It's just not one communicationand done.
Or, as Pat Dale's going to talkabout, you make the plan, you
put it on a shelf and no oneever revisits it again.
It really truly needs to be aroadmap for your organization.
The other thing we're gonnatalk about is how that vision
and planning really works intothe culture of your department
(01:32):
and how it helps shape theculture of your department,
because it really starts todefine what is acceptable for
your department, not only inbehavior, but also in
performance and service thatyou're going to provide, and
that's part of that be nice.
We say be nice all the time.
Of course, it's one of Bruno'stenants that he always talked
(01:53):
about.
It sounds simple.
It isn't always so simple foreveryone.
And then the added valuecustomer service that we give.
So that's coming up in just amoment as we throw it to the
silverbacks on today's B-Shifterpodcast.
Before that, just want to giveyou a couple of reminders.
The Blue Card Hazard ZoneConference is coming to
Sharonville, ohio.
We'll be there September 29ththrough October 3rd.
(02:17):
We still have, I think, just acouple of seats in most of the
workshops, if they're not fullalready, and then plenty of
seats for our general session.
So we'll just keep addingchairs for those.
But we want you to get signedup, especially for
accommodations, because Ibelieve both hotels are almost
sold out.
I think the Hyatt is, but oneof them is and one of them isn't
(02:39):
.
But go to bshiftercom, click onthe conference, get all the
conference details there.
We're very excited for that.
We'll have some giveaways there.
We're excited to bring on somenew partnerships.
This year We've got Duty to Actcoffee that we'll be giving
away some prizes from at theconference.
As we go to you, again, thetraffic noise here.
(02:59):
Everyone is getting out of townfor the holidays, so pardon the
noise, we'll be done with thenoise in just a second.
So we'll see you there andhopefully it's going to be a
chance for you to get out andget some fresh perspective on
leadership and command issues ofthe day.
So we have 23 top-notchinstructors delivering a lot of
(03:22):
classes to choose from on thegeneral session days for you to
kind of customize what yourlearning experience is.
As soon as you get registered,we'll send you a link to the app
so you can start planning thatout.
Also, we are really happy toannounce that Waldorf University
is a partner with us.
They're going to be at theconference this year and if you
(03:44):
go to bshiftercom and go to ourconference page, you can click
on the link there or go to theshow notes and click on the link
and you can go to Waldorf andsee how your B-Shifter
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Of course, we're ACE accredited, but if you're looking to seek
higher education for yourself,waldorf's the place to get that
(04:07):
started and also some of yourB-Shifter education will
transfer right over and we'regoing to continue that
partnership and continue to addwhat we have credits for.
So, waldorf University, followthat link and check it out and,
of course, if you haven't doneso already, please like and
subscribe to this podcast.
It helps us keep the word out.
And, of course, if you haven'tdone so already, please like and
subscribe to this podcast.
It helps us keep the word out.
(04:28):
You know, when we started, Ithink there were less than 10
actual fire service podcasts.
I know there's a ton more now.
I mean, it seems like every daythere's a new podcast popping
up.
So we appreciate the fact thatyou spend time with us and you
listen to us and, just to let usknow that you're listening,
give us a like and thensubscribe so you never miss an
(04:49):
episode.
So right now let's toss it overto Pat Dale, terry Garrison and
Nick Brunicini and they'regoing to be talking about not
only the vision and strategicplanning for your organization,
but really how it helps shapethe culture, especially if
you've got a be nice culturetoday here on the Be Shifter
podcast.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
You know I want to bounce back to your question
about how do you keep momentumgoing and what process do you
use?
And listeners might find this,if you're thinking about being a
fire chief, it might soundboring, but in both
organizations there was not astrategic plan that was in place
and I used a strategic planningprocess and then a strategic
(05:36):
plan to lead the organization.
And I think I had this fire inmy belly to do that, because in
all the years previous I'd beenthrough these strategic planning
processes.
A consultant would come in andwe'd get up high hope and if
three ring binders developed andit's put on a shelf, we never
talked about it again and Ididn't want to do that as a fire
(05:57):
chief.
So I wanted to make it real,include a lot of people.
Out of a hundred people therewas probably 30 involved in the
planning process, representingevery group and labor, of course
, and then it was theirstrategic plan.
And then I, I, I led us to keepit in front of all of us
continually.
This is a.
So we had 40 items, say, in astrategic, a five-year strategic
(06:18):
plan for the organization.
Those are the most important 40things moving forward in the
next five years.
So I said let's work on.
Let's, in the first year, takethe top eight most important
things and, by and large, what Iwas leading towards was let's
all work on those eight thingstogether at the same time the
administration, labor and theboard.
(06:39):
Let's focus on those and if wecan accomplish seven of them in
the first year, you do the mathfive years times eight per year,
you'll work towards 40 itemsover five years.
So I kept it in front of us, infront of the board.
This is a strategic planningitem.
That's why I'm asking forfunding for it.
That was here's the objectives.
That's why I'm asking forfunding for it.
Here's the objectives.
Yes, I feel like they're brokendown into.
(07:01):
You know, I feel like I hadsuccess doing that.
So you talked about a processand how do you keep the energy
moving forward?
You can get the command staffyou know fired up about yeah,
let's go work on those eight.
They go away and you know whatthey're working on their email.
So it takes energy from from meto keep everyone focused on the
(07:22):
the most important priorities,and I worked hard on doing that.
I think I had success.
So if you're talking about aprocess and how you keep
momentum going.
That comes to mind.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
that's the destination well, I think that I
think those plans have tobecome the jobs of people.
Then where?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
it's not.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
okay, I get to go back to what I was doing.
No, what you're doing doesn'texist anymore.
This is where we're going andthis is what you do now.
So you're still going to worryabout deployment and managing
incidents and deliveringresources and all that, but this
is the way this looks now.
So I mean, that's kind of thechange piece of it.
(08:00):
You got to kind of get no,we're not going back to the old
way, we're going to do the newway.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
And you align it with the organization.
It's got to match up.
Yeah, it's kind of theimprovement.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
As we slowly improve things.
This is what this looks like.
We're going to have to makechanges over on this side and
this side, but I think thosebecome less of obstacles the
more the process kind of takesover and you think, okay, this
is where we want to.
It's almost like the goal atthe end, Like you say okay,
here's the eight-year goal.
We want at least three peopleon the trucks 90% of the time,
(08:31):
and X, Y and Z, and those areeasy to benchmark.
You can kind of keep track ofthat.
And then in the after actionreview process, that's where you
start to validate all thesechanges we've made with the
outcomes we're having.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Exactly, that's a fourth step of that process
right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
You report on it quarterly.
People have to report to me onthe progress.
Quarterly reports man.
I mean like I started outsaying it might sound boring a
strategic plan?
No, I get it, but if you takeit for real and take it
seriously.
And you know, as leaders putfocus on it and lead the
organization, don't put it on ashelf and never talk about it.
(09:07):
That can be a really usefultool.
What will?
Speaker 4 (09:09):
happen is you'll go through that process as an
organization and then you'lllook up and it's five years
later, Right.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
And you went wow, okay, and this is what we've
accomplished.
And you can actually say lookwhat we did, guys.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Right Jeez, I think I need a nap.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, you know what it was truly 40 items in a
five-year plan.
At the first department.
I was at Graham and before Ileft we brought it up and we
actually celebrated that weaccomplished 70% of those 40
items in five years, celebratedthat we accomplished 70% of
those 40 items in five years.
And the consultant was going tocome back and he said that is
good.
Most organizations don'tachieve that much.
(09:47):
And I said well, I want it tobe trainable and repeatable
because I'm going to leave here,but I want the organization to.
I think it's ingrained here.
Now they're going to expectanother one and that's trainable
and repeatable.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Well, that's the point where you can bring the
next chief in from theorganization that just went
through this, that has all theexperience with it to keep it
going Exactly.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
I mean that's kind of the goal, right, and Nick you
said it, those top five or fourbecomes your public information.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
constant statements over and over again.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
These are our.
So you have organizationalculture.
Those are your values that youdecide.
Okay, our organizationalculture is based on these values
.
These are the actions and thebehavior we're going to focus on
to move in that direction.
But then you just keep sharingthat over and over again.
They got tired of me saying besafe, be nice, be accountable.
(10:45):
Got to say it all the time.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Well, the message that we put out is we're fast,
we're well-trained and we'renice.
So that's the it was.
The PR guy says no, you needthree things that you're going
to tell them.
That are one sentence andthat's who you are.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
And if you break, down those into tangible
objectives you've got a reallygood strategic plan.
Yeah, if you do those threethings, that is a full-time job
as a fire chief you couldactually go through that process
and you could do that withoutan expert coming in and if
you're just trying your best ina small fire department.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I'm going to go out to go around and say there's
three experts sitting at thistable that know more than any
consultant they're going tobring in.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Yeah, you guys have actually done it.
Find out what your values areattach, and they should focus on
the work yes and thefirefighters and then set
objectives so how you can dobetter at that every day and
that becomes your strategic plan.
If you can mark it up, thateasily, move forward.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I like keeping it simple, distilling it down to so
, in all those animal clubs andevery place.
I always talked about ourservice that they deliver is
time sensitive, highly technicaland staffing-intensive, and I
keep it simple.
I love that you would includenice in there too, but I talked
(12:06):
about that every single time.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Say those again.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
That it's time-sensitive, so response
times matter.
We need to intervene.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
First one seconds count.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
One seconds count.
Highly technical Core servicesCore services are highly
technical.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Paramedicine, structural firefighting,
technical rescue has that ishighly technical.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
100 staffing intensive.
You gotta have the people yougotta have.
It takes a lot of people tothanks.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
We can do that that's why I wanted you to say it
again, because if you can't have, if you don't have a
firefighter on a fire stationthat can do exactly what he, did
with that it just falls apart.
It's got to be simple.
It had meaning Anybody could bethe PIO.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
After four or five years of this, they could take a
firefighter off an ambulance.
We're fast, we're well-trained,we're nice.
Boom, oh wow.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
I like that.
They're not the most eloquent,but they they got the message
across in a very enthusiasticway, oh yeah, like a puppy dog.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
They're like gold retrievers covered with smoke.
This is great.
There were some.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
There were some initiatives that we were taking,
that we would talk about theelevator speech.
Talk about the elevator speech.
And if somebody comes up andasks you, you know what's your
20 to 30 second speech on thenew ambulances or paramedic
services or additional staffing,whatever it is, because they're
the ambassadors.
The firefighters are theambassadors for it.
They have to be the ones toanswer the question.
(13:32):
So, as the chief, you've got to, you've got to get everybody
spooled up on the information.
You guys said it with thetransparency part of it.
Let them know what the plansare, talk about the plans at at
nauseam, so that so they know at, uh, you know the grocery store
when somebody corners them andstarts asking about you know you
guys are going to increase mytaxes, because what's it going
(13:54):
to do?
because the, the troops get that.
I mean the truth.
The troops get that abuse from,uh, certain elders in our
community that want to take itout on them.
Or how much did that fire truckcost?
Or am I buying the food in yourbasket, or whatever it is so to
be able to disarm that and thencome back and talk, you know, do
you know how many people wehave on duty at once?
(14:15):
And you know, the answers youget are crazy.
I was at a two-station firedepartment where they thought we
had 50 people on duty and it'slike no, we have seven.
You know, we're barely coveringit.
And then you disarm the publicand they almost get to the point
where then they become your fan.
Right, we want to create fansout there.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah, yeah, let me buy you dinner.
All right, we started withculture is doing the culture and
then make it Strategic level.
Yeah, strategically, as thechief, I'm going to change the
culture of this thing.
So, socially, we're going to bea little nicer to each other.
Professionally, we're going tokeep our core services up high,
but we're going to be nice.
See, that's kind of where youthink this should go, is being
(14:59):
nice should be part of the coreservices, not some added value
thing.
So that's kind of what I'mhaving difficulty with.
So part of that is allowing thecrew to add value.
Is you have to empower them,right?
So you asked me a question theother night.
Is, you said I.
You said somebody asked me whywould a firefighter talking
(15:21):
about your 30 second thing theelevator talk?
Why should a firefighter doleadership training?
And I thought, well, I don'tknow.
I thought about it for a while.
I said, well, the best answer,I think, is because it makes you
a better person, just as ahuman being.
You interact with other peoplebetter when you go through this
and you consider, kind of therole of a strategic leader and
(15:43):
what they do.
And I think part of that isempowering the workforce to
actually do their job.
It's just like no, no, no.
This is my first due area.
This is my franchise and thisis the way I'm going to treat my
customers as nice in this thing.
So like allowing those peopleand empower them to go off and
(16:06):
do that is a lot of people won'tdo it because you're giving up
control, basically.
Well, it's the appearance thatyou're giving up control because
they're going to go off and dowhat they're going to do anyway.
You got no control over whatEngine 5 does at two in the
morning.
It's the officer that you'regiving up control because
they're going to go off and dowhat they're going to do anyway.
You've got no control over whatEngine 5 does at 2 in the
morning.
It's the officer on that truckthat's managing.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
They don't want to run straight.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, yeah.
So how did you guys manage thatpiece of it and kind of
especially moving forward withthe expectations, because
sometimes you're almost usingempowerment to get the employee
where you want them and say, no,you're empowered to do these,
this is what we expect from you.
Now, how did you guys managethat piece of it and the effect
(16:50):
it had on the culture?
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah, I'll jump in with maybe a little bit
different view of because youknow, familiar listening to the
Phoenix led under Chief Municini.
But you said something, nick,that made me think of an area
that I focused on a lot with theops chief, and that was the
company officers, because I feltlike we could talk to the crews
(17:16):
and have these ideas and thestrategic plan and 40 important
things.
I want it to be everybody'splan and that would.
We would accomplish thosethings or have the culture that
we wanted or not, based on thecompany officer, we, we, the
ivory tower can have all of thewishes that we want and it and
it comes to.
You know the tip of the spear Italked about all the time in
(17:36):
our department, the.
You know the tip of the spear Italked about all the time in
our department.
The company officer is the tipof the spear because it all
comes together with the companyofficer when it arrives at an
address point because that's thereason for our existence People
dial 911 and we show up to anaddress point Fire department
ma'am, that's the companyofficer.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
You know one of the problems is we need a feather
more than we need a spear.
Yeah, I mean, sometimes youneed a spear.
There's other times you're likeOK, no, you're the feather.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, we don't want you spearing, yeah true, so
that's just a metaphor, butyou're thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
That's true.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
Yeah, so one of the biggest issues that I had going
into one organization is thatthe chief officers tried to
manage the fire stations on thatlevel and they wanted to
control their little paradise,right?
What do you call it?
(18:35):
Their little— Kingdom?
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Little fiefdom.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
They're like the great oz so what our chief tries
to do like in in phoenix, bruno.
Bruno cini would tell you, man,I would like to have one fire
department not three firedepartments on a shift, three
different departments plus 40different fire stations, so one
department, everybody focusing.
(18:58):
So when I was uh creating thisculture of kindness kindness the
kindness conspiracy I like tocall it is that, um, I had to
trust the chief officers, butthe chief officers had to trust
the fire captains, and there wassome of them that just did not
trust the fire captain, like itwas something as simple as their
(19:20):
uniform.
Well, they can't wear thatuniform and they can't do this,
but it got around uniforms, likeyou know.
You trust this fire captain tomake a decision when the smoke's
pouring out, whether the duckdown and to go in and attack a
fire with these people's lives.
You trust them for that, butyou can't trust them to make a
(19:41):
decision in what uniform thatfire cap what color socks to
wear.
It's bullshit right when theycan wear baseball hats inside a
fire station.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, all that.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
It's silliness.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
It's micromanagement.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
Yeah, so it is so it has to.
But what you're talking aboutis it has to align all the way
through the organization.
Hold the assistant, and we hada guy you said everybody had a
boss.
Right, and everybody does havea boss.
And you need to fire chiefneeds to kind of be, he needs to
(20:16):
have open eyes how things arehappening within the
organization and he'll hearassistant chiefs not being nice
to district chiefs, districtchiefs not being nice to
firefighters, and somewhere inthere there's a breaking point
that you need to.
It needs to be corrected.
And I would hear about adistrict chief say chief, you're
not.
Assistant chief say you're notgoing to like this.
This district chief did this.
And I go oh, who's he work for?
Oh, do you agree with whatwe're saying?
(20:43):
Do you agree with everythingwe've been talking about for the
last year?
Yeah, well, then go out thereand have a conversation with
them and and fix it.
Whatever it's, I'm going toempower you to fix that yeah and
then that needs to go and thatneeds to fall, to fall down.
But but Bruno Sini didsomething that was so awesome is
.
He spoke a lot about.
He said what empowerment lookedlike.
(21:04):
First of all, you have todefine what is empowerment,
because it's such a goofy word.
But what does empowerment looklike for a firefighter?
For a firefighter, you'reempowered to do the right thing
for the customer.
In fact, I'm going to give youa set of parameters that you can
kind of think about as you'redeciding to be empowered.
Am I going to be empowered?
(21:25):
Is it the right thing for thecustomer?
Is it safe, is it lawful, is itwithin your control and is
something you can do If it meets?
And I know there's probably acouple more.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
We'll show them the card up there.
Yeah, but that was pretty muchit.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
And they would say if that all lines up, then you can
go do it.
So there's got to just likeeverything else.
We assume people know whatempowerment means and we
shouldn't do that.
We should take the opportunityto educate them, show them what
that looks like.
Take the opportunity to educatethem, show them what that looks
(22:01):
like, and then when they go outand they do those kinds of
things we hear about them, whichyou always like, nick, you talk
about after action more thananybody I've ever met in my life
, because that's where youcorrect behavior right.
You would correct it if you sawsomething safety and you'd have
it right there you'd correct it, but really after action is
where you reset the employee orreset the behavior.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Well, you, you, you actually analyze what just
happened at the incident sceneand you, you could always
improve things, but you're notgoing to be.
You don't take it to that level.
That's okay, that's more of astrategic thing, but within our
existing SOPs and everythingelse, you had this set of
critical factors.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
You took these actions and we had this outcome.
So, when people do thesespecial and, like you said, it'd
be nice if added value wasembedded into every call, and it
wouldn't be added it would justbe service delivery.
Wouldn't it be nice if we justcalled it service delivery?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Well, see, but I think there is an added value
thing.
Like an example, like in theafter action review, there was a
deal where, like somebody'sburned out, they can't return,
they can't spend the night intheir house, somebody figures
out that there's a socialorganization that you can get
vouchers to a hotel and so aftera work and fire, we get these
vouchers so you can give, like afamily, three free nights in a
(23:17):
hotel and a taxi ride there.
Well, yeah, that's a taxi ridethere.
Yeah, well, yeah, that's awhole different thing.
Yeah, sometimes I was the wrongperson to empower all the way.
So that was, I want to say, thatcame out of an after action
review.
And then the fire chief heardit and said no, no, no, no, no,
we're going to do an after thefire thing.
So he strategically repackagedthis and said after a fire, this
(23:38):
is what this looks like.
So within two months there areboxes, cardboard boxes, with the
Phoenix Fire Department logo.
That would salvage boxes, andso that's for people, pictures,
pets and pills.
So if somebody's burned out, wewould go through their house
with them.
They collect all the stuff theyneed to go spend a night in a
hotel for three nights andthey've got the Phoenix Fire
(24:01):
Department box.
Well, how the hell couldn'tthey love you after that?
I mean, what did that cost?
A box?
A buck.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
I mean you, you, we're like an old couple that
lived together so long that I'mtrying to get to a point and you
eat it.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
You take my point, that's what I was saying so what
was it?
Dan, nab and Allison.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Because everything he says too.
So if added value becomesservice delivery and then beyond
that becomes special, recognizethose in the organization and
then have awards, have thankyous, green sheets, celebrate it
.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah, just celebrate it.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Yeah, it's so funny because you just I love the fact
that.
Did you know?
I used to work for a guy thathad your same initiative.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, you did.
Well, hey, you asked thequestion.
If you throw underhand pitches,I'm going to hit them back at
you.
Sorry, terry, I got you guysstarted to begin with, and now I
can jump in whenever I want,that's beautiful All right.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Today we'd like to thank Pat Dale, Terry Garrison
and Nick Brunicini for sharingtheir wisdom on the B-Shifter
podcast.
If you want more of theSilverback Leadership Series, go
to your subscription.
It's over in all of thecontinuing education modules on
your blue card site.
If you're not a blue cardsubscriber, stay tuned because,
(25:23):
specifically, we'll be gettingthat available to you sooner or
later as an entire series, anentire leadership series.
Have a great and safe Labor Dayweekend, If you're just going
into the weekend, if not, youknow.
Hopefully you got to enjoy itand we appreciate you listening
to the Be Shifter.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Podcast We'll see you next time, you.
Hello and welcome to the B Shifter podcast.
I'm John Vance, your host.
I'm actually home hanging outfor Labor Day weekend.
Hopefully you're going to beable to spend a little bit of
time with your friends andfamily this Labor Day.
This is Thursday, august 28th,and as we're gearing up for the
Labor Day holiday, we thoughtwe'd bring you a podcast today
(00:29):
from the Silverbacks.
This is more advice from ourSilverback're, not on Blue Card.
This will give you a littletaste of what the Silverback
(00:49):
Leadership Series is all about,what we're talking about and
some of the relevant topics thatwe have for today's fire
service.
And today we'll be talkingabout things like strategic
planning and what you should doas a leader, especially the fire
chief, if you have a strategicplan, talking about it,
communicating it, how importantit is to communicate it on a
(01:12):
continuous basis.
It's just not one communicationand done.
Or, as Pat Dale's going to talkabout, you make the plan, you
put it on a shelf and no oneever revisits it again.
It really truly needs to be aroadmap for your organization.
The other thing we're gonnatalk about is how that vision
and planning really works intothe culture of your department
(01:32):
and how it helps shape theculture of your department,
because it really starts todefine what is acceptable for
your department, not only inbehavior, but also in
performance and service thatyou're going to provide, and
that's part of that be nice.
We say be nice all the time.
Of course, it's one of Bruno'stenants that he always talked
(01:53):
about.
It sounds simple.
It isn't always so simple foreveryone.
And then the added valuecustomer service that we give.
So that's coming up in just amoment as we throw it to the
silverbacks on today's B-Shifterpodcast.
Before that, just want to giveyou a couple of reminders.
The Blue Card Hazard ZoneConference is coming to
Sharonville, ohio.
We'll be there September 29ththrough October 3rd.
(02:17):
We still have, I think, just acouple of seats in most of the
workshops, if they're not fullalready, and then plenty of
seats for our general session.
So we'll just keep addingchairs for those.
But we want you to get signedup, especially for
accommodations, because Ibelieve both hotels are almost
sold out.
I think the Hyatt is, but oneof them is and one of them isn't
(02:39):
.
But go to bshiftercom, click onthe conference, get all the
conference details there.
We're very excited for that.
We'll have some giveaways there.
We're excited to bring on somenew partnerships.
This year We've got Duty to Actcoffee that we'll be giving
away some prizes from at theconference.
As we go to you, again, thetraffic noise here.
(02:59):
Everyone is getting out of townfor the holidays, so pardon the
noise, we'll be done with thenoise in just a second.
So we'll see you there andhopefully it's going to be a
chance for you to get out andget some fresh perspective on
leadership and command issues ofthe day.
So we have 23 top-notchinstructors delivering a lot of
(03:22):
classes to choose from on thegeneral session days for you to
kind of customize what yourlearning experience is.
As soon as you get registered,we'll send you a link to the app
so you can start planning thatout.
Also, we are really happy toannounce that Waldorf University
is a partner with us.
They're going to be at theconference this year and if you
(03:44):
go to bshiftercom and go to ourconference page, you can click
on the link there or go to theshow notes and click on the link
and you can go to Waldorf andsee how your B-Shifter
certifications actuallyarticulate into credits.
Of course, we're ACE accredited, but if you're looking to seek
higher education for yourself,waldorf's the place to get that
(04:07):
started and also some of yourB-Shifter education will
transfer right over and we'regoing to continue that
partnership and continue to addwhat we have credits for.
So, waldorf University, followthat link and check it out and,
of course, if you haven't doneso already, please like and
subscribe to this podcast.
It helps us keep the word out.
And, of course, if you haven'tdone so already, please like and
subscribe to this podcast.
It helps us keep the word out.
(04:28):
You know, when we started, Ithink there were less than 10
actual fire service podcasts.
I know there's a ton more now.
I mean, it seems like every daythere's a new podcast popping
up.
So we appreciate the fact thatyou spend time with us and you
listen to us and, just to let usknow that you're listening,
give us a like and thensubscribe so you never miss an
(04:49):
episode.
So right now let's toss it overto Pat Dale, terry Garrison and
Nick Brunicini and they'regoing to be talking about not
only the vision and strategicplanning for your organization,
but really how it helps shapethe culture, especially if
you've got a be nice culturetoday here on the Be Shifter
podcast.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
You know I want to bounce back to your question
about how do you keep momentumgoing and what process do you
use?
And listeners might find this,if you're thinking about being a
fire chief, it might soundboring, but in both
organizations there was not astrategic plan that was in place
and I used a strategic planningprocess and then a strategic
(05:36):
plan to lead the organization.
And I think I had this fire inmy belly to do that, because in
all the years previous I'd beenthrough these strategic planning
processes.
A consultant would come in andwe'd get up high hope and if
three ring binders developed andit's put on a shelf, we never
talked about it again and Ididn't want to do that as a fire
(05:57):
chief.
So I wanted to make it real,include a lot of people.
Out of a hundred people therewas probably 30 involved in the
planning process, representingevery group and labor, of course
, and then it was theirstrategic plan.
And then I, I, I led us to keepit in front of all of us
continually.
This is a.
So we had 40 items, say, in astrategic, a five-year strategic
(06:18):
plan for the organization.
Those are the most important 40things moving forward in the
next five years.
So I said let's work on.
Let's, in the first year, takethe top eight most important
things and, by and large, what Iwas leading towards was let's
all work on those eight thingstogether at the same time the
administration, labor and theboard.
(06:39):
Let's focus on those and if wecan accomplish seven of them in
the first year, you do the mathfive years times eight per year,
you'll work towards 40 itemsover five years.
So I kept it in front of us, infront of the board.
This is a strategic planningitem.
That's why I'm asking forfunding for it.
That was here's the objectives.
That's why I'm asking forfunding for it.
Here's the objectives.
Yes, I feel like they're brokendown into.
(07:01):
You know, I feel like I hadsuccess doing that.
So you talked about a processand how do you keep the energy
moving forward?
You can get the command staffyou know fired up about yeah,
let's go work on those eight.
They go away and you know whatthey're working on their email.
So it takes energy from from meto keep everyone focused on the
(07:22):
the most important priorities,and I worked hard on doing that.
I think I had success.
So if you're talking about aprocess and how you keep
momentum going.
That comes to mind.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
that's the destination well, I think that I
think those plans have tobecome the jobs of people.
Then where?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
it's not.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
okay, I get to go back to what I was doing.
No, what you're doing doesn'texist anymore.
This is where we're going andthis is what you do now.
So you're still going to worryabout deployment and managing
incidents and deliveringresources and all that, but this
is the way this looks now.
So I mean, that's kind of thechange piece of it.
(08:00):
You got to kind of get no,we're not going back to the old
way, we're going to do the newway.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
And you align it with the organization.
It's got to match up.
Yeah, it's kind of theimprovement.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
As we slowly improve things.
This is what this looks like.
We're going to have to makechanges over on this side and
this side, but I think thosebecome less of obstacles the
more the process kind of takesover and you think, okay, this
is where we want to.
It's almost like the goal atthe end, Like you say okay,
here's the eight-year goal.
We want at least three peopleon the trucks 90% of the time,
(08:31):
and X, Y and Z, and those areeasy to benchmark.
You can kind of keep track ofthat.
And then in the after actionreview process, that's where you
start to validate all thesechanges we've made with the
outcomes we're having.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Exactly, that's a fourth step of that process
right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
You report on it quarterly.
People have to report to me onthe progress.
Quarterly reports man.
I mean like I started outsaying it might sound boring a
strategic plan?
No, I get it, but if you takeit for real and take it
seriously.
And you know, as leaders putfocus on it and lead the
organization, don't put it on ashelf and never talk about it.
(09:07):
That can be a really usefultool.
What will?
Speaker 4 (09:09):
happen is you'll go through that process as an
organization and then you'lllook up and it's five years
later, Right.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
And you went wow, okay, and this is what we've
accomplished.
And you can actually say lookwhat we did, guys.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Right Jeez, I think I need a nap.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, you know what it was truly 40 items in a
five-year plan.
At the first department.
I was at Graham and before Ileft we brought it up and we
actually celebrated that weaccomplished 70% of those 40
items in five years, celebratedthat we accomplished 70% of
those 40 items in five years.
And the consultant was going tocome back and he said that is
good.
Most organizations don'tachieve that much.
(09:47):
And I said well, I want it tobe trainable and repeatable
because I'm going to leave here,but I want the organization to.
I think it's ingrained here.
Now they're going to expectanother one and that's trainable
and repeatable.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Well, that's the point where you can bring the
next chief in from theorganization that just went
through this, that has all theexperience with it to keep it
going Exactly.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
I mean that's kind of the goal, right, and Nick you
said it, those top five or fourbecomes your public information.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
constant statements over and over again.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
These are our.
So you have organizationalculture.
Those are your values that youdecide.
Okay, our organizationalculture is based on these values
.
These are the actions and thebehavior we're going to focus on
to move in that direction.
But then you just keep sharingthat over and over again.
They got tired of me saying besafe, be nice, be accountable.
(10:45):
Got to say it all the time.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Well, the message that we put out is we're fast,
we're well-trained and we'renice.
So that's the it was.
The PR guy says no, you needthree things that you're going
to tell them.
That are one sentence andthat's who you are.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
And if you break, down those into tangible
objectives you've got a reallygood strategic plan.
Yeah, if you do those threethings, that is a full-time job
as a fire chief you couldactually go through that process
and you could do that withoutan expert coming in and if
you're just trying your best ina small fire department.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I'm going to go out to go around and say there's
three experts sitting at thistable that know more than any
consultant they're going tobring in.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Yeah, you guys have actually done it.
Find out what your values areattach, and they should focus on
the work yes and thefirefighters and then set
objectives so how you can dobetter at that every day and
that becomes your strategic plan.
If you can mark it up, thateasily, move forward.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I like keeping it simple, distilling it down to so
, in all those animal clubs andevery place.
I always talked about ourservice that they deliver is
time sensitive, highly technicaland staffing-intensive, and I
keep it simple.
I love that you would includenice in there too, but I talked
(12:06):
about that every single time.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Say those again.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
That it's time-sensitive, so response
times matter.
We need to intervene.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
First one seconds count.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
One seconds count.
Highly technical Core servicesCore services are highly
technical.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Paramedicine, structural firefighting,
technical rescue has that ishighly technical.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
100 staffing intensive.
You gotta have the people yougotta have.
It takes a lot of people tothanks.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
We can do that that's why I wanted you to say it
again, because if you can't have, if you don't have a
firefighter on a fire stationthat can do exactly what he, did
with that it just falls apart.
It's got to be simple.
It had meaning Anybody could bethe PIO.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
After four or five years of this, they could take a
firefighter off an ambulance.
We're fast, we're well-trained,we're nice.
Boom, oh wow.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
I like that.
They're not the most eloquent,but they they got the message
across in a very enthusiasticway, oh yeah, like a puppy dog.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
They're like gold retrievers covered with smoke.
This is great.
There were some.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
There were some initiatives that we were taking,
that we would talk about theelevator speech.
Talk about the elevator speech.
And if somebody comes up andasks you, you know what's your
20 to 30 second speech on thenew ambulances or paramedic
services or additional staffing,whatever it is, because they're
the ambassadors.
The firefighters are theambassadors for it.
They have to be the ones toanswer the question.
(13:32):
So, as the chief, you've got to, you've got to get everybody
spooled up on the information.
You guys said it with thetransparency part of it.
Let them know what the plansare, talk about the plans at at
nauseam, so that so they know at, uh, you know the grocery store
when somebody corners them andstarts asking about you know you
guys are going to increase mytaxes, because what's it going
(13:54):
to do?
because the, the troops get that.
I mean the truth.
The troops get that abuse from,uh, certain elders in our
community that want to take itout on them.
Or how much did that fire truckcost?
Or am I buying the food in yourbasket, or whatever it is so to
be able to disarm that and thencome back and talk, you know, do
you know how many people wehave on duty at once?
(14:15):
And you know, the answers youget are crazy.
I was at a two-station firedepartment where they thought we
had 50 people on duty and it'slike no, we have seven.
You know, we're barely coveringit.
And then you disarm the publicand they almost get to the point
where then they become your fan.
Right, we want to create fansout there.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah, yeah, let me buy you dinner.
All right, we started withculture is doing the culture and
then make it Strategic level.
Yeah, strategically, as thechief, I'm going to change the
culture of this thing.
So, socially, we're going to bea little nicer to each other.
Professionally, we're going tokeep our core services up high,
but we're going to be nice.
See, that's kind of where youthink this should go, is being
(14:59):
nice should be part of the coreservices, not some added value
thing.
So that's kind of what I'mhaving difficulty with.
So part of that is allowing thecrew to add value.
Is you have to empower them,right?
So you asked me a question theother night.
Is, you said I.
You said somebody asked me whywould a firefighter talking
(15:21):
about your 30 second thing theelevator talk?
Why should a firefighter doleadership training?
And I thought, well, I don'tknow.
I thought about it for a while.
I said, well, the best answer,I think, is because it makes you
a better person, just as ahuman being.
You interact with other peoplebetter when you go through this
and you consider, kind of therole of a strategic leader and
(15:43):
what they do.
And I think part of that isempowering the workforce to
actually do their job.
It's just like no, no, no.
This is my first due area.
This is my franchise and thisis the way I'm going to treat my
customers as nice in this thing.
So like allowing those peopleand empower them to go off and
(16:06):
do that is a lot of people won'tdo it because you're giving up
control, basically.
Well, it's the appearance thatyou're giving up control because
they're going to go off and dowhat they're going to do anyway.
You got no control over whatEngine 5 does at two in the
morning.
It's the officer that you'regiving up control because
they're going to go off and dowhat they're going to do anyway.
You've got no control over whatEngine 5 does at 2 in the
morning.
It's the officer on that truckthat's managing.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
They don't want to run straight.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, yeah.
So how did you guys manage thatpiece of it and kind of
especially moving forward withthe expectations, because
sometimes you're almost usingempowerment to get the employee
where you want them and say, no,you're empowered to do these,
this is what we expect from you.
Now, how did you guys managethat piece of it and the effect
(16:50):
it had on the culture?
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah, I'll jump in with maybe a little bit
different view of because youknow, familiar listening to the
Phoenix led under Chief Municini.
But you said something, nick,that made me think of an area
that I focused on a lot with theops chief, and that was the
company officers, because I feltlike we could talk to the crews
(17:16):
and have these ideas and thestrategic plan and 40 important
things.
I want it to be everybody'splan and that would.
We would accomplish thosethings or have the culture that
we wanted or not, based on thecompany officer, we, we, the
ivory tower can have all of thewishes that we want and it and
it comes to.
You know the tip of the spear Italked about all the time in
(17:36):
our department, the.
You know the tip of the spear Italked about all the time in
our department.
The company officer is the tipof the spear because it all
comes together with the companyofficer when it arrives at an
address point because that's thereason for our existence People
dial 911 and we show up to anaddress point Fire department
ma'am, that's the companyofficer.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
You know one of the problems is we need a feather
more than we need a spear.
Yeah, I mean, sometimes youneed a spear.
There's other times you're likeOK, no, you're the feather.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, we don't want you spearing, yeah true, so
that's just a metaphor, butyou're thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
That's true.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
Yeah, so one of the biggest issues that I had going
into one organization is thatthe chief officers tried to
manage the fire stations on thatlevel and they wanted to
control their little paradise,right?
What do you call it?
(18:35):
Their little— Kingdom?
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Little fiefdom.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
They're like the great oz so what our chief tries
to do like in in phoenix, bruno.
Bruno cini would tell you, man,I would like to have one fire
department not three firedepartments on a shift, three
different departments plus 40different fire stations, so one
department, everybody focusing.
(18:58):
So when I was uh creating thisculture of kindness kindness the
kindness conspiracy I like tocall it is that, um, I had to
trust the chief officers, butthe chief officers had to trust
the fire captains, and there wassome of them that just did not
trust the fire captain, like itwas something as simple as their
(19:20):
uniform.
Well, they can't wear thatuniform and they can't do this,
but it got around uniforms, likeyou know.
You trust this fire captain tomake a decision when the smoke's
pouring out, whether the duckdown and to go in and attack a
fire with these people's lives.
You trust them for that, butyou can't trust them to make a
(19:41):
decision in what uniform thatfire cap what color socks to
wear.
It's bullshit right when theycan wear baseball hats inside a
fire station.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, all that.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
It's silliness.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
It's micromanagement.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
Yeah, so it is so it has to.
But what you're talking aboutis it has to align all the way
through the organization.
Hold the assistant, and we hada guy you said everybody had a
boss.
Right, and everybody does havea boss.
And you need to fire chiefneeds to kind of be, he needs to
(20:16):
have open eyes how things arehappening within the
organization and he'll hearassistant chiefs not being nice
to district chiefs, districtchiefs not being nice to
firefighters, and somewhere inthere there's a breaking point
that you need to.
It needs to be corrected.
And I would hear about adistrict chief say chief, you're
not.
Assistant chief say you're notgoing to like this.
This district chief did this.
And I go oh, who's he work for?
Oh, do you agree with whatwe're saying?
(20:43):
Do you agree with everythingwe've been talking about for the
last year?
Yeah, well, then go out thereand have a conversation with
them and and fix it.
Whatever it's, I'm going toempower you to fix that yeah and
then that needs to go and thatneeds to fall, to fall down.
But but Bruno Sini didsomething that was so awesome is
.
He spoke a lot about.
He said what empowerment lookedlike.
(21:04):
First of all, you have todefine what is empowerment,
because it's such a goofy word.
But what does empowerment looklike for a firefighter?
For a firefighter, you'reempowered to do the right thing
for the customer.
In fact, I'm going to give youa set of parameters that you can
kind of think about as you'redeciding to be empowered.
Am I going to be empowered?
(21:25):
Is it the right thing for thecustomer?
Is it safe, is it lawful, is itwithin your control and is
something you can do If it meets?
And I know there's probably acouple more.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
We'll show them the card up there.
Yeah, but that was pretty muchit.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
And they would say if that all lines up, then you can
go do it.
So there's got to just likeeverything else.
We assume people know whatempowerment means and we
shouldn't do that.
We should take the opportunityto educate them, show them what
that looks like.
Take the opportunity to educatethem, show them what that looks
(22:01):
like, and then when they go outand they do those kinds of
things we hear about them, whichyou always like, nick, you talk
about after action more thananybody I've ever met in my life
, because that's where youcorrect behavior right.
You would correct it if you sawsomething safety and you'd have
it right there you'd correct it, but really after action is
where you reset the employee orreset the behavior.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Well, you, you, you actually analyze what just
happened at the incident sceneand you, you could always
improve things, but you're notgoing to be.
You don't take it to that level.
That's okay, that's more of astrategic thing, but within our
existing SOPs and everythingelse, you had this set of
critical factors.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
You took these actions and we had this outcome.
So, when people do thesespecial and, like you said, it'd
be nice if added value wasembedded into every call, and it
wouldn't be added it would justbe service delivery.
Wouldn't it be nice if we justcalled it service delivery?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Well, see, but I think there is an added value
thing.
Like an example, like in theafter action review, there was a
deal where, like somebody'sburned out, they can't return,
they can't spend the night intheir house, somebody figures
out that there's a socialorganization that you can get
vouchers to a hotel and so aftera work and fire, we get these
vouchers so you can give, like afamily, three free nights in a
(23:17):
hotel and a taxi ride there.
Well, yeah, that's a taxi ridethere.
Yeah, well, yeah, that's awhole different thing.
Yeah, sometimes I was the wrongperson to empower all the way.
So that was, I want to say, thatcame out of an after action
review.
And then the fire chief heardit and said no, no, no, no, no,
we're going to do an after thefire thing.
So he strategically repackagedthis and said after a fire, this
(23:38):
is what this looks like.
So within two months there areboxes, cardboard boxes, with the
Phoenix Fire Department logo.
That would salvage boxes, andso that's for people, pictures,
pets and pills.
So if somebody's burned out, wewould go through their house
with them.
They collect all the stuff theyneed to go spend a night in a
hotel for three nights andthey've got the Phoenix Fire
(24:01):
Department box.
Well, how the hell couldn'tthey love you after that?
I mean, what did that cost?
A box?
A buck.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
I mean you, you, we're like an old couple that
lived together so long that I'mtrying to get to a point and you
eat it.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
You take my point, that's what I was saying so what
was it?
Dan, nab and Allison.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Because everything he says too.
So if added value becomesservice delivery and then beyond
that becomes special, recognizethose in the organization and
then have awards, have thankyous, green sheets, celebrate it
.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah, just celebrate it.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Yeah, it's so funny because you just I love the fact
that.
Did you know?
I used to work for a guy thathad your same initiative.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, you did.
Well, hey, you asked thequestion.
If you throw underhand pitches,I'm going to hit them back at
you.
Sorry, terry, I got you guysstarted to begin with, and now I
can jump in whenever I want,that's beautiful All right.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Today we'd like to thank Pat Dale, Terry Garrison
and Nick Brunicini for sharingtheir wisdom on the B-Shifter
podcast.
If you want more of theSilverback Leadership Series, go
to your subscription.
It's over in all of thecontinuing education modules on
your blue card site.
If you're not a blue cardsubscriber, stay tuned because,
(25:23):
specifically, we'll be gettingthat available to you sooner or
later as an entire series, anentire leadership series.
Have a great and safe Labor Dayweekend, If you're just going
into the weekend, if not, youknow.
Hopefully you got to enjoy itand we appreciate you listening
to the Be Shifter.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Podcast We'll see you next time, you.
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