Ink and Empathy: Danielle McKnight's Journey in Tattoo Artistry and Life Mastery

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Good morning, good morning, good morning, may 20th
2024.
I'm here this is Zach Distahere with my co-host, brandon
May.
It's a beautiful 64 degrees, alittle cloudy, and we're in Long
Beach today with a very specialguest, danielle McKnight.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hi everybody, woo LBC strong beach, let's go Strong
beach and I don't know if youknew this.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
He's told me before.
Actually, I'll get somethingout of the way.
I'm very familiar with thisshop because Danielle is working
on a lake sleeve for me rightnow.
Brandon's very familiar withthis area.
He grew up in this area.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Nice, this is my second home.
Went to high school, middleschool, moved out here to middle
school.
I finished high school and thenmoved back to Riverside, right
off Ocean Inn, atlantic ohliterally right here, right
around the corner.
This is my old shopping ground,so welcome home.
I used to do play arcade gamesat the laundromat Super Mix,

(01:14):
that's my spot.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
I barely just went there for the first time last
month.
Oh, it's fire.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Really good so.
I haven't been there yet, so Igotta try it next time.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah, I was't been there yet, so I'm waiting.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, I got to try it next time, so how are you
feeling this morning, you good.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
I'm good.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Thank you for letting us get this interview.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
And thank you guys for having me.
I really appreciate it.
This is an amazing, super coolopportunity, so I'm glad to be
here.
So I love what you guys aredoing.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Just to give you guys a little bit of a brief bio on
Danielle.
She's been tattooing for 16years.
She specializes inneo-traditional realism, color
work and all types of tattooing.
We can't pigeon her.
She'll still do a lot of otherstyles too, but the new era of

(02:01):
tattooing.
You got to be categorized now.
What's your favorite style outof those that you enjoy?

Speaker 3 (02:08):
I'd say neo-traditional has always been
my favorite.
When I first started tattooing,I was like, oh, I want to be a
neo-traditional artist.
I really really, as an artist,liked the work of Alphonse Mucha
.
He has a really art nouveaustyle of artwork so I was always

(02:28):
really, really infatuated withhis artwork and I was like, oh,
I want to tattoo like that, andthis is before.
Neo-traditional was like whatit is today.
Um so and that was 16 years agowhen I first started tattooing
I was like I want this style, Iwant to do this, and now it's
like, that's like one of the topstyles that a lot of artists
are are going for.
Um, so that's probably myfavorite.
I recently just got into moreportrait and realism, black and

(02:50):
gray work I just hate doingblack and gray, really hate
doing black and gray.
Why it was so hard for me?
Okay, um, I feel like becausewith black and gray, like with
color, you have so manyunlimited amount of colors, like
your color palette is justendless so you can mess with,
you know, shadow, lighting,highlights and stuff like that a

(03:12):
little bit easier, contrast alittle bit easier with black and
gray.
You're just relegated to a fewtones.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
So that in order to get thatcontrast, like you really got to
know what you're doing right,so you know.
And then you know, overworkingthe skin, shit, be all red at
the end, like what did I do?
And he was like shit, becauseall of it falls out.

(03:33):
Like, so I'm just like I ain'teven trying to fuck with this.
I hated it.
I was like I'm gonna be a colorartist through and through.
And then probably in the lastlike two years maybe, honestly,
after I moved out here, maybetwo or three years, I just
started doing a lot more blackand gray and I started paying
attention to a lot more blackand gray artists and kind of
breaking down tattoos as like,instead of looking at the tattoo

(03:56):
as a whole, breaking it downand looking at each little piece
like, oh, I can do that.

Speaker 4 (04:00):
I could do that.
Well, I can do that.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
And then it becomes a little bit easier and, uh, not
so intimidating when you look atit kind of in pieces, um, and I
was like you know what I'm, I'mreally getting into this style,
um.
And then I had a client whocame in and wanted um on his
forearm.
He wanted half of a lion faceon one side and then half of a
tiger face on the other side,and normally I'd be like I can't

(04:26):
do that and I something insideme.
I was just like no fuck, Icould do that I could do that
and it I surprised the fuck outof myself.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
I was like damn bitch look at you, okay, okay, I can
do this one of the things thatkind of intrigues me about um
you being a female black tattooartist.

Speaker 4 (04:44):
You feel me, which is super dope, you feel me she's
like a unicorn out here y'allyou know what I mean, so it's a
shop owner deal?

Speaker 2 (04:51):
yeah, and a shop owner thank you yeah um, when
you're doing color work and aperson uh, you know black skin
comes in african-american personcomes in um and they ask you
for color.
What is your response?

Speaker 3 (05:09):
so they'll usually tell me oh, I've been to x
amount of shops and they alltell me I can't do color.
And it's not that these artistsare telling them I don't know
how to color on melanated skin,it's you can't get color as a
black person.
So they're automatically underthe assumption that, oh, I'm
black, I can't have colortattoos and I'm like you agree

(05:31):
or disagree?
Um, I disagree.
I mean, it definitely dependson your skin tone and then you
might be limited to a colorpalette of what you can do on
melanated skin.
Um, but I just had a gentlemancome in who was probably about
your complexion and did somebright ass color work on him
right you know what I mean, andit's am I.
It was funny because my brotherhad uh commented on it because I

(05:52):
posted on my story and he waslike so the gag is um, if you
can't do this on melanated skin,you just can't tattoo and that
was the runes right.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
The different rooms, yeah, it's uh dinkers they're
like african symbols.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
Thank you, um, but it was bright on his skin.
Now, obviously, you want to seehow that heals, because you
know it.
I tell people all the time whentattoos heal a thin layer of
your skin, heals over it.
So it's like looking at thatcolor through, like a tinted
lens kind of um.
So the more melanin you have inyour skin, the more influence
that healed layer of skin isgoing to have over how the final

(06:27):
product of the tattoo looksonce it's healed.
Um, so he's actually coming inum again.
We're going to add to thatpiece at the end of the month so
I'll be able to see how itlooks healed.
Get some pictures and stufflike that.
You know, cause everybody onthe internet nowadays.
Well, I want to see it healed.
What does it look like healed?

Speaker 2 (06:49):
You know what I mean.
Which is valid you know it'svery important.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yeah, because the tricksters out there, exactly,
or the photoshop people who youknow, let me bump this up.
You know, let me bump up thiscontrast and um, so you know you
do, you definitely do want tosee what things look like healed
.
Um, especially, too, that'salways a teaching moment for
artists, because it's like okay,now I know how this healed on
this person, now I know if Ineed to adjust or if what we did
the first time around is goingto work you know, what I mean.
Um, but I I do dislike the factthat there are artists out here

(07:15):
who are telling people who aremelanated you can't get color
when it's really.
I don't know how to do color onmelanated skin and not
everybody knows how to do it,even you know I took a little
time until I moved out here.
Like moving out here.
I have so many more blackclients now than I did when I
was living in Rancho.
OK you know what I mean, and Ithink also having my own shop

(07:39):
and being able to advertise thatit's black owned, female owned,
I get more people who come inlike, oh, it's a sister doing
tattoos.

Speaker 4 (07:47):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
I'm gonna go to her Cause she knows how to deal with
our skin because she is also ablack woman.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Um, it's a comfort level type thing, yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
So I understand people who are not melanated,
maybe not being comfortable withtattooing melanated skin, um,
whether it's because theyhaven't had the experience in
doing it, depending on, maybe,their geographic location, what
the diversity is like wherethey're tattooing or where they
live, or it just might beintimidating because that's not

(08:17):
usually what you see marketed.
Also, because most of thetattoos that we show off are on
lighter skin, because there ismore contrast that you can
achieve with lighter skin tones,um, so you do have to kind of
pull out those tricks and stuffto tell a tattoo on melanated
skin, and not everybody knowshow to do that or even as
comfortable doing that, um.
But I am here to tell everybodythat black folks can get color

(08:41):
too.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
I mean I know it can't be done.
Yeah, you know, I get color too, it can be done.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
I'm like high yellow.
I got color too.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
I was going to jump in on that.
I'm going to give you, if seal,the singer comes in and says
hey D, I want some color.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
What are you?
Going to tell them.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Can't do it.
Is there a limitation?

Speaker 3 (09:01):
There's definitely a limitation.
So I do tell people who happento be a little bit darker toned
um, these are like a range ofcolors that will work on you.
So obviously yellow's out, youknow what I mean.
Orange is probably out isn'tthat a trip?

Speaker 2 (09:12):
a trip how yellow looks, yeah, how chalky it gets
and stuff.
Because even.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
You know I have yellow on me and I mean this is
like an older tattoo, but youknow it's not the.
I can tell it's yellow becauseI knew it.
You know, I know it used to beyellow, but, um, I usually would
tell people who are darker skintone, like probably more reds,
greens and blues will work ontheir skin tone looks dope green
looks badass and that's one ofthe colors that I used on my
client was green, and it's sovibrant even the red was very

(09:38):
vibrant on his skin.
So reds and greens money usuallyon darker skin blues.
If it's like a lighter blue andit's one of the more opaque
blues, like a baby blue orrobin's egg blue from eternal,
um, I find that those show upreally well on darker skin too
so obviously, the darker you go,the more limited you are for
your color palette, and thelighter you go, the more options

(10:00):
that you do have it's aslippery slope, though, too it
is because things get muddyreally really quick they do and
I feel like in black skin, whenour tattoos heal, they saturate
out a little bit.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
So it's uh, it's a gamble, it is very much so it's
a gamble and I tell clients thattoo.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
Like you know, it might look super dope when you
leave, and when it heals itmight be a whole different story
.
You know, um, you want to tellpeople that, so they're not like
, hey, you fucked up my tattoo,bitch.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
You know what I mean Fix it for free, exactly.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
So it's like you know , there's always a disclaimer,
like you know, hey, this may ormay not heal the way that you're
thinking, or it's not going tolook, you know.
But I tell all clients yourtattoo is not going to look, you
know.
But I tell all clients, yourtattoo is not going to look how
it does when you leave here.
You know, a month, three months, a year, five years, 10 years

(10:54):
down the road, just becausethat's, you know, that's how
your, your skin heals over thetattoo and a thin layer, so it's
never going to be as bright asit is when you first leave you
know, and some people aren'taware of that, strangely.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
And you, more recently, got into permanent
makeup too yeah, how has thattransition been for you?

Speaker 3 (11:07):
it's actually been really cool.
I got licensed to do permanentmakeup last year, um, for
eyebrows, um, so I do like, uh,microblading, nano brow powder,
brow stuff, like that correction.
Um, and I never people wouldask me all the time do you do
eyebrows, can you do my eyebrows?
And I'm like, I am not messingwith your face, like I'm just
not going to do it Becausepermanent makeup, tattooing and

(11:28):
tattooing.
tattooing are two wildlydifferent things, you know.
You see people who go into atraditional tattoo shop and get
eyebrows done and look at a hotmess Because the technique is
not the same, the ink is noteven the same, is not the same,
the ink is not even the same.
Tattoo, or, I'm sorry, um,permanent makeup pigment is
meant to fade over time and notstay as dark.

(11:49):
That's which is why you have toget touch-ups constantly,
because eyebrow trends are arealways changing.
um, so if you take, you know,some intense triple black, put
that on somebody's eyebrows,they're gonna be looking a hot
mess very bad you know so andwe've all seen those people with
these like dark all surprisedyeah, just like, oh damn yeah,

(12:13):
and it's, and it's usuallypeople who don't know anything
about eyebrow shape or but it'slike you know, the people who do
it just out of traditionaltattoo shops, who have no
background in, like symmetry, orwhere the arch should be, or

(12:35):
where the tail should end andthe front should start, like
it's real easy to mess upsomebody's eyebrows yeah, I want
no part, yeah, so it's a wholedifferent ball game.
Um, and what?
What got me to actually thinkof, even think about
entertaining doing permanentmakeup?
Obviously it's a lot morepopular now.
Um, but there was actually Igot a phone call um here at the

(13:00):
shop and some man, older dude,called and he was like, yeah, my
wife, um, you know, wants shehas like a birthmark on her
lower back, like near hertailbone, and she wants to see
if she can get it tattooed over.
I'm like you mean like a colorcorrection.
And he was like, yeah, shewants it lightened up, like you
know.
And I was like, okay, we'llhave her come in, I'll see what
I can do.
So she came in and it was likethis older white man and like

(13:24):
this younger Asian woman.
So I was like, okay, so I takeher to the back and it's not on
her lower back, it is literallyin her ass.
Crack, like.
Oh booty hole territory oh wowLike cause.
You know how, like everybody's,you're inside your butt crack
is darker than the rest yeah.
So she just went back therespread them open.

(13:46):
I said oh, that's so.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
It's not your lower back, it's not your lower back,
it's your booty back, it's yourcheeks.
Wait, wait, wait.
I knew we were going to touchon something.
I've never heard this storybefore.
I've never heard this storybefore I never told you the
story, you never told me thebooty hole story shut up.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
I thought, I told you the story so she was trying to
get lightened up yeah, so youknow how they do but, for him,
yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, it's forhim, it's more for him, yeah, so
you

Speaker 1 (14:13):
know, I've never once looked at a booty hole and was
like no, I was like not indisguise, not in disguise, I'll
it would be good if it was a fewshades brighter.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
So my thing.
Firstly, I'm like Just kind ofaccept it as it is.
I asked her.
I said, okay, do you want to dothis?
Or is it because he wants youto do it?
Because anytime I have couplescome in and it's the guy saying,
oh, my chick wants this done.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
I'm like Is that the feminist?
She can speak for herself.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yeah that's the feminist side.
That's definitely feminist tome for sure.
I'm like hold up.
Are you forcing her?
I've got shield coming out,yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
You're in jail.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
You're better than me , yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
And I've told people I'm not going to do it before.
Like, if you can't speak foryourself, it makes me feel like
he's forcing you and I'm not.
I won't have any part in that,like you know, and a lot of
tattoo artists will just do shitbecause I'm just trying to get
paid.
I don't really care about theperson, but I'm a very
empathetic person and that isdefinitely the feminist social

(15:12):
justice warrior in me, becausethat's a very permanent decision
for somebody else to make foryou, which is why I don't allow
clients to bring people withthem.
Do not bring your mom in here.
Don't bring your boyfriend.
Don't bring your girlfriend oryour wife.
Don't bring your girlfriend oryour wife, or you don't bring
anybody.
Don't bring your best friend,who thinks that they're a tattoo
artist because they watch inkmaster 25 times.
Come by yourself because, thisis a permanent decision for you,
um, but I, you know, I askedher.
I was like is this, do you wantto do it, or is it because he

(15:35):
doesn't like it?
And she was like well, you knowI don't like it.
You know men don't like it andyou know I just, I just want to
lighten it up, like it'sbothering me.
I'm like girl, so you sit andlook at your booty on the mirror
yeah, you know, yeah, and youknow, correct me if I'm wrong,
but Idon't think a lot of men really
give a fuck about that you knowwhat I mean.

Speaker 4 (15:55):
I might be wrong somebody out there.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
So yeah, that's like you know, this is really
bothering, yeah tap in tap in.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
You say any of us DM if booty hole color bothers you
go ahead, let us know, yeah, letus know because I'm very
curious to see what thedemographics on that are.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
I'm glad you saved this, for that I didn't know, I
heard, I heard.
I heard save this for that.

Speaker 4 (16:24):
I didn't know, I really thought that.
I told you that I told her.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
I was like okay, like you know, I'll do it, um, you
know.
But I also gave her a warning.
I'm like this might be a thingthat takes a few sessions.
Um, again, because the way yourskin heals over it, it might
take a few sessions, you know,to lighten it up.
And because this is also notlike anal bleaching, like that's
a completely different umprocedure.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, it's like you're getting your hands, yeah
so and it's like you know, closetogether all the time.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
So it's sweating and shit.

Speaker 3 (16:52):

Speaker 2 (16:53):
So I told her I'd do it and you gotta shit, yeah,
yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
So it was a very interesting experience and then,
she had like some stretch markson her butt she probably had
chilies before she came in.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
Yeah, so it was a very interesting experience.
And then she had like somestretch marks on her butt that
she wanted me to like go over.
So it was definitely a veryinteresting experience, but that
is literally what got me into.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Maybe I should do permanent makeup, you know what
I'm saying, but you did thetattoo, yeah.
How long did it take?

Speaker 3 (17:22):
I did it twice.
She had two sessions.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
And I think we did like maybe an hour or two, oh
that's a big old butthole.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
I mean, it wasn't, but I just wanted to say that,
no matter how long she said, Iwas gonna say yeah, yeah, that's
a big, old, normal size but youknow, I wanted to be delicate
because that's a delicate area,so I wanted to make sure I was
taking my time, making sure Iwas saturating it correctly,
because that was the first timeI ever tattooed somebody booty

(17:51):
hole.
So it's a different experiencefor me too, but that's literally
what got me into doingpermanent makeup, because I'm
like you know what maybe Ishould get into eyebrows I
eyebrows, I can do whatever Iwant, that's just my eyebrows.
Sky's the limit now yeah exactly.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
She was looking at it like, yeah, that's how I wanted
it.
Put some highlights in there.
Finish with the white.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
What the hell.
That was definitely one of mymore crazy tattoo experiences.
I'll never forget that.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
I hope she's doing well Not to.
But as a caveat to that, Ievery time I'm in here it's like
a a regular, traditional shop,as in everybody's coming in,
everybody's bullshitting.
But it's entirely different,vibe, yeah, you get the neighbor
coming in.
Oh, I heard someone who washere and he just comes and
bullshits with you for a fewminutes.

(18:43):
It's like being.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
It's like cheers.
He brings me food and shit,sometimes speaking of cheers.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Congratulations on your three-year sobriety thank
you, your your sober birthday.
Yeah, just came off to you.
Yeah, you um.
I hope out anyone who isstruggling um.
I hope they see you asmotivation.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
And I tell people all the time, like if you are
struggling, you can reach out tome, like I am your internet big
sis and you can reach out to mewhether you're struggling with,
you know, any kind of um,addiction, substance abuse,
mental health, um, you know I,and that's why I'm so open with
my story, you know about mysobriety journey and my
alcoholism, because I wish I hadsomebody to look up to and to

(19:28):
get information from when I wasgoing through my shit.
I didn't really, you know youhave people who are there for
you, like your family and yourfriends and stuff like that, who
are like, oh you know, you cancome to me and you can talk to
me, and you're grateful forthose people.
But it's like, but you haven'treally seen my struggle by being
in my struggle.
So it's like as much as havingthat support system in that

(19:52):
community helps immensely.
Um, you know you want to seesomebody else who has gone
through the struggle and made itout the other side.
Um, because it's getting soberis the hardest thing I've ever
done in my entire life and I didnot think I was going to be
able to do it.
Um, I did.
I had to go to rehab for 30days.
Um, and what set that in motionwas 2020 is when I realized

(20:15):
that I had a drinking problem.
Um, because before that it wasjust like oh, I'm just a party
girl, I just like to party andhave my friends, and then
everybody I hung out with wasalways drinking.
So I'm like, well, all of uscan't have a problem you know,
and then it was, you know, whenI was at home drinking by myself
and crying all the time, andyou know 2020, we were all in

(20:39):
the house.
I would wake up at 9am andstart doing shots.
You know what I mean and I'mlike this is not normal.
Like this is not normal behavior, and I poured bottles of vodka
down the sink multiple times andI'm like, okay, today's the day
that I'm going to, I'm going tostop, you know, or at least I'm
going to cut back, and I'd go aweek without drinking.

(21:00):
And then I would celebrategoing a week without drinking by
drinking, and I'm like this isnot, this is not helping you're
stuck in the loop.
Yeah, I was being stuck in thatloop.
And then you know I'm like,okay, well, maybe I'll just cut
out hard alcohol, you know.
So then I was just doing likethe trulies and the white claws
and beer, but then I'm like Ikind of want a shot.

(21:20):
I'm just gonna get like alittle baby bottle of something,
and then it's the next sizebigger, and then it's the next
size bigger.
So that's when I was like, okay, you know, I have a problem, I
have a problem.
And then that year is also whenI started, um, like my
spiritual, spiritual journey, um, and so I was like wrestling
with, like being on this, likenew spiritual journey, but also

(21:43):
being an alcoholic and likechanging who I, you know,
changing the way that I lookedat the world and life.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Were you an owner at that point.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
No, that was when I was still out in Rancho, and
tattooing in Fontana, so thiswasn't even on my radar at all.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
I remember having an apprentice who was interested in
the toxic side of tattooing anda lot of people don't talk
about that.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
But there is a very there's a, I guess an invisible
rope.
Yeah, you know what I mean, Iguess, as you could describe it,
the underworld of tattooing isdrugs, yeah, alcohol, sex.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
It's like a rock star culture.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
Yeah, a rock star culture.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
yeah, you know and you're infused into it from the
beginning yeah you know, andit's up to you to kind of make a
decision on how you want toplay in this party.
You know, and in the beginning,yeah, you do start off a little
drinking and it's really,really fun and it's like, but
then it doesn't go away becauseit's our lifestyle.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
So then you get these individuals who do it and they
build these habits, but it'sbased off of their lifestyle.
So this is our job.

Speaker 4 (22:57):
We go to conventions.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
You know, somebody's got something, you do a little
something you know you drink thewhole time you're there.
Maybe you're slow and we're.
Freedom is sometimes our, ourworst enemy.
Yes, most definitely.
And um, there is nobody to holdus accountable within our job
to say, hey, there is no bossfor us.
To say, hey, don't drink thatbefore you start tattooing.
Exactly you know what I meandon't smoke that before you

(23:21):
start tattooing so like when youbecome a tattooer and you dive
into this industry.
It's pivotal that you, you know,have a, you're grounded and you
have a good structure of howyou want to be perceived.
You have your walls up.
You have to tell people.
No.
You literally have to tellpeople no.
You literally have to makefriends that are not within that

(23:43):
style of work that aren't lostin the sauce, and sometimes it's
not the cool crowd.
You know what I mean, but youknow when you see these artists
like Peacock and these straightedge artists and all these
individuals have gone throughthese sobriety moments.
Tattooing is a big influence ofsome people's downfalls.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
And it kills people and it causes suicide and you
know it may start your drugaddiction.
So I just wanted to bring thatup because it's a lot more
common than what you guys wouldthink.
Most definitely, Some tattooartists and shops start with a
bottle and end with a bottle.
Those are a lot of older habitsthat are kind of making it in

(24:23):
today's modern day tattooing.
You know the fun stuff peopledon't really want to let go of.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
You know, but it is definitely causes it's a bit of
turmoil and you know this is astory about how like you've
handled yours, which is dope.
You know I have more questionsabout adversity within tattooing
and that kind of tailors off ofit I don't want to stray too
far away from the health andwellness.
Is there anything you wanted tosay to um with you about what

(24:49):
you were just saying?
I kind of round up before.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
I mean just.
You know, my sobriety not onlysaved my life, because I did try
to kill myself.
Um and that was what promptedmy going to rehab.
Nobody knew it was that baduntil I did that and I, like,
went to the emergency room andessentially tried to.

(25:13):
I tried to give myself alcoholpoisoning, but when you have a
tolerance as large as mine wasbecause I was an alcoholic,
didn't quite make that, so itdidn't work you know.
And I showed up to the ER andthe doctor's like do you know
what your blood alcohol is?
And I like no, it's 0.34.
And he's like this is likeborderline pretty much alcohol
poisoning, yeah walking likepeople are like unconscious at

(25:35):
this point, and the fact thatyou are lucid and talking to me
normally is like that's alarming.
My liver levels were off thechart, like your.
Normal.
Liver levels are supposed to bebetween one and 37.
Mine were over a thousand, sothere were 30 times what they
were supposed to be Um so youwere feeling it too.
Huh, you know what the thingwas like with my liver being

(25:56):
jacked up like that, like Ididn't realize, cause you can't
see inside yourself and I wasn'thaving like any abnormal pains
or anything.
Yeah.
Um and I wasn't having like anyabnormal pains or anything.
Yeah, um, I was only seeing thedestruction in my mental health
.
you, know, because my alcoholismwas brought on by depression,
um, and anxiety and trauma.
You know what I mean?
Um, and I had drank sincecollege, but it got really bad,

(26:19):
um, at like the uh end of 2018when I was raped, Um, and after
that, I just downward spiraled,downward spiraled, was just
getting fucked up Because Ididn't want to be in here, you
know what I mean.
I didn't want to be alone,which is why I was always out at
the bars every single night,like literally every night.
I didn't want to be left alonewith myself and my thoughts, so

(26:44):
I could either go out and bearound people or, if I was home,
I just drink myself intooblivion, um, and it just got
worse and worse and worse, andfinally I was like I don't want
to be here anymore and I triedto take my life, um, and I'm
glad that I'm still here, um,you know, after that happened,
my family was like, hey, willyou go to rehab?
And I'm like, absolutely,didn't even fight it.

(27:04):
Like was like, please, yes,please, yes, went for 30 days
and I was scared that I wasn'tgoing to stay sober, and I've
been sober ever since that day.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Good for you, good for you, thank you.
Yeah, I mean that's so hard,you know.
Addiction is I'm trying to stopsmoking right now.
Yeah, you know, yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
I feel like when.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
I hit a moment or whatever, and I kind of go back
to it and it comforts me.
I absolutely fucking hate it.
I hate that.
There's that weak spot in mybrain.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
I'm just like, ah, motherfucker like what are you
doing?

Speaker 2 (27:43):
you don't even want to do it it's hard.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
You know it's it's hard and people are like well,
addiction's a choice and youknow it's bullshit and it's like
it.
Who the fuck wants to be likethat?
Nobody wants to be like that.
The shit is hard, bro, like youknow what I mean.
It's.
It's a, literally it's adisease, you know.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
And as far as your job that you chose to, you
didn't pick a very good job forlike stress free environment.

Speaker 4 (28:12):

Speaker 2 (28:13):
Like tattooing is very high anxiety.

Speaker 3 (28:15):
Oh, very much so being put on the spot and say
create.
Yeah, very much so.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (28:21):
I hope I got it today Exactly you know, some days are
better than others but it'sfucking stressful, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
And you know.
But I will say that since I'vebeen sober and now that I'm just
in a shop by myself, I am somuch less stressed out.
So much less stressed out, likeI still have days where I'm
like tired or exhausted, or I'mlike, oh, I gotta execute this
tattoo tomorrow, or oh, I gotthis.
But for the most part, like I'mjust so happy these days that

(28:51):
I'm like and I also don't takeon clients that I don't fuck
with no more.

Speaker 1 (28:55):

Speaker 3 (28:56):
Like I don't take on clients that I don't fuck with
that, I don't vibe with that,I'm not jazzed about like,
because I realized, like mybrother is the one who told me
like, bro, you don't have totattoo everybody.

Speaker 2 (29:07):

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Like you are your boss, like you don't got to
tattoo everybody.
But when you're in such thathustle mode and that hustle
mentality oh, I got to makethese, I got to make this money,
I got to pay these bills Like Idid it.
But once I got to this point,to where I'm like comfortable
and I'm like, bro, I just openedup a business, like I'm
chilling, like I'm good, I don'thave to tattoo everybody and

(29:30):
there's something in that thatjust like transforms the way
that you work.
Like I love all my clients.
Like before I used to have likesome clients that were annoying
or would get on my nerves, orlike you know, that were rude or
disrespectful or late,chronically, and I'm just like,

(29:51):
oh my God, and it's like now Idon't have to deal with that if
I don't want to, right, you knowit's your garden, you know you.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
You want to be very specific about what seeds you
you place in the ground andwatch grow.
Because, exactly, place in theground and watch grow because
and then you're going to belooking at a whole bunch of
weeds or some roses.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
Exactly, you know so Exactly.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, it's huge.
I'm very picky as far as myclientele as well.

Speaker 4 (30:11):
Yeah, you should be.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
You know how we are.
We're man, we are dissecting youguys' messages as soon as you
send them and if we see a littlebit of glimmer of bullshit,
like tattoo artists are reallygood at sniffing that out,
because for sure, it createsproblems for us, and people who
cause problems are hard to workwith.
You know, they're very hard towork with um.

(30:33):
One of the questions that Iwanted to ask you is how do you,
how did you deal with um?
Because you've been tattooingfor 16 years and there was a big
rule back in the day no girlsin the shop yeah, oh yeah no
girls in the shop and that'slike it was a core rule like
fuck, no, we don't want girlshere.

(30:53):
They fuck everything up and this.
You know, I'm saying it likethat because I gotta say it like
a fucking true tattooer howit's said they fuck everything
up fuck these bitches fuck thesebitches.
You know.
Give me your opinion upon that.
How do you feel about thatbeing a female black tattoo
artist?
Um, because I agree anddisagree.

Speaker 3 (31:16):
Yeah, exactly personally um, it's.
I mean, I've definitely facedlike a shit ton of adversity.
Like, like, coming up in thetattoo industry.
Um, I have left shops becauseof the way that I was treated
because I was a woman.
Um, I've been sexually harassedat shops that I worked at by
people that I worked at.
Um, I've been berated on adaily basis going into shops

(31:39):
that I worked at.
Like I literally worked at ashop and I'm sure everybody who
knows me for a long time knowswhat shop I'm talking about when
I say this but like I would gointo the shop immediately.
What's up, fat bitch?
Like, or like I'd be tattooinga client.
I'm like, hey, you know, yourtattoo artist is a slut, right.
And I'm just like, what in thefuck is your guy's problem?

Speaker 4 (32:06):
Um.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
I remember the owner of that shop actually called me
the N-word in front of a walk-inand they were like bro, that is
not cool.
And he was like no, no, it'sokay.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
And I'm like no, it's not, and that walk-in, walked
out.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
They're like no, we're not getting tattooed here.
And they even looked at me likewhat are you doing?

Speaker 1 (32:21):
What are you doing?

Speaker 3 (32:22):
You know what I mean, and it's just like because when
I first started tattooing there, everything was fine and then
when everybody started gettingcomfortable, that's when all of
the jabs and all of the justmalicious behavior started and I
lost clients because of that.
100% Because my clients arelike dude, you work in a toxic
ass fucking environment.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
You don't got to tell me twice.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
But I was like damn, like where do I go?
Like now, I got to start allover at a different shop.
You know what I mean Now, likewhat, if I?

Speaker 1 (32:52):
go through that worse .
Yeah, exactly, go through thesame type of behavior.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
You know what I mean, because I left my first shop
because it started becomingtoxic, because I was being
treated differently, because Iwas the only woman.
And I'm like bro, like I likethis is supposed to be family.
And it's like I remember when Ifirst started there, I had a
boyfriend and we had broken up,and so, you know, I'm like newly

(33:18):
21.
So I'm like going out, enjoyinglife with my friends, and I
don't know somebody had seen mewhen I was out one time and my
mentor was like oh, so-and-so,saw you out with, you know,
making out with some guy.
And I'm like, and that's aproblem, because like, that's
none of your business.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
That's none of your business like I'm not at work
like I.

Speaker 3 (33:39):
Like how is that in your business?
And then it's like well, wedon't want you to give the shop
a bad name, so like, just don'twear the shop shirt when you go
out.
I'm like bro what you mean.
But my first of all, I'm likeall y'all are cheating on all
your girlfriends.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
And why are you paying attention to my business?

Speaker 3 (33:56):
Why are you paying attention to my business?
Cause I'm the only one.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
It's just the underlying bullshit to get to
the issue that we don't want.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
We don't want a woman Like you should have taken on a
female.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
I find it hard to determine whether it's a black
thing sometimes or not.
You know I definitely feel thedifference of how I'm treated
and how my work is perceived.
Yes, how reluctant people areto come up and just check your
shit out even at a convention.

Speaker 3 (34:24):

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Some of this know the um, but that's not all.

Speaker 4 (34:36):
That's not mine, and yours fault, you know who's
fucking fault?

Speaker 3 (34:37):
that is the black and crew.
Well, that too, that too, and I.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
They asked me to be on that show and I said I said
absolutely not after a good idea.

Speaker 4 (34:42):
They asked me to be on that show.
That's his fucking phone.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
And I said absolutely not.
After I did Ink Master, I wasapproached by VH1 or whatever
fucking channel that's on.
They're like oh, we want you tobe on Black Ink Crew Chicago.
And I was like absolutely notRight, absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Because, rather than promoting black artistry, we
promote black drama.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
I'm a stereotype.

Speaker 4 (35:01):
Man yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Man and they used to be like oh B, you look like
C-Shop.
I'm like please don't ever tellme that, oh God.
And I'll tattoo circles aroundthat man.

Speaker 3 (35:09):
Because he's not even good.
No, he's not that good and hedoesn't even seem like a good
person, I'll say it.
Most of the motherfuckers onthat.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
Because we're on the show doesn't mean like, yeah,
say that shit we say it aboutpeople all the time just because
you're black and you're on tvand we're black doesn't mean
that you get a fucking pass thisshit is garbage, garbage.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
I'm like I'll be looking.
I'm like people are ravingabout this and people are
kissing you're on tv.
They blew up like they blew thefuck up and I had one of the
guys that I was on ink masterseason eight with um, kevin
leroy.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
He ended up I met kevin did you really, yeah, mike
mccaskill's premiere.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Yeah, I was actually um, I went to mike's uh viewing
party at uh is elizabeth streetyeah um.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
You were there back at uh prohibition yes, I was
there, I was there yeah yeah, Iwas there um.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
So yeah, mike's cool as hell, kevin's cool as fuck
his work kevin's work is.
You want to talk about a tattooartist?
Man, that's a tattoo artist.
Yeah, kevin's work is badassman, like so when you look at
him.

Speaker 4 (36:17):
Yes, that's a tattoo artist, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
And now he's gone on to now he's on black ink compton
, I believe, at uh cat shop.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Um enigma so as he should be, though, because he,
he, he puts, he's respectful.
Yes, he, he shows black how Iwant it to be seen exactly you
know, um and then I like howpeople fuck with him he over
there tattooed mary j blige, andshe loves him.
It's not just the fact that hegot there, it's the fact that

(36:45):
he's keeping it real.
His fashion is on point.

Speaker 4 (36:48):
His tattoos are on point when it comes to somebody
that black tattoo artists canback.
We 100% will back you, but assoon as we find a little bit, of
bullshit.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
It's like I don't know man, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
What do you think about that dude out of Atlanta
who is claiming that he didtradition?
He created traditional blacktattoos.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
Oh the, what did he call it?

Speaker 2 (37:14):
He got like the dreadlocks and the glasses.
He was on Ink Masters toorecently.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
right, Right, right, right I think I actually
recently just watched that oneLike what do I think?

Speaker 2 (37:26):
as far as like him, did he create it.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
I don't know if I hell.
No, he didn't he might havebrought it to like a forefront
yeah he might have brought itlike more, to like the forefront
for people to view it and seeit, because he did have the ink
master platform you know what?
I mean, but I wouldn't say thathe was the creator of that I've

(37:50):
been getting black traditionalsince the beginning of time
exactly.
Period, exactly so to like.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
It's what 2024 yeah, you know what I mean, yeah and
to say you created anythingreally in art is a bold fucking
statement very much so yeah, youknow what I'm saying, and his
work is dope oh, it's dope, it'sdope, don't get me wrong it's
dope.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
I think I actually follow him on instagram, right,
so his work is dope, don't getme wrong.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
But there's also another black dude in atlanta
that's shitting on you, brother.
Really, oh my gosh, there'sthis dude.
I forget his name.

Speaker 3 (38:21):
I will, I will I'll find it and send it to you for
sure but you know both, I haverespect for both of you guys.
Both of you guys are reallydoing yeah, good work, but you
did not create that shit, sorry,yeah, saying you created
anything in the in the art realmis a very is a very bold, bold
statement, I think yep, it'straditional to make.
I would never fucking say Icreated that how did?

Speaker 1 (38:44):
how did you get out of the first shop, though, after
after all that mess?

Speaker 3 (38:47):
um, so the the first shop with like, the like, just
kind of just being well that wasthe second shop.
Okay, that was the second shopthat I worked at.
Um like the first shop.
I you know I ended up leavingjust because I was like dude I'm
.
I can tell that I'm beingtreated differently now and I'm

(39:08):
over this fucking bullshit.
You know what I mean, like, andsince then, like I do talk to my
mentor now.
Still, you know what I mean.
Like we've reconciled and stufflike that.
Um, so I fucking love the guy,like I'm totally grateful for
the opportunity that he gave me.
He's a fucking dope ass,fucking tattoo artist too.
Um, and I had a great.
That was a great opportunityfor me.

(39:28):
But once I started beingtreated differently because of
being a woman, it was like allright, it's time, might be time
to go.
Um, but the second shop um, Iworked there because a buddy of
mine worked there and I was likehey, like I'm looking for a new
spot.
He was like, oh, we're actuallylooking for artists.

Speaker 4 (39:43):
Like, come through and like I said, it was all good
for a while, until it wasn'tyou know?

Speaker 3 (39:48):
and then it was just like one day I was like, because
people are like bro, you needto leave, like you need to leave
, like even my brother was likebro, I'm about to come up there
and crack some heads, becausethe way these dudes are treating
you like it's, it's absolutelyridiculous.
So I, straight up one day, justwhen I knew that most of the
guys who were a problem weregoing to be there, I went.

(40:09):
I took my mom's boyfriend camewith me.
He brought one of his homies incase some shit popped off.
They came with me and I justfucking got all my shit and I
fucking left and the two guyswho were in there who I was cool
with.
They were like are you movingstations?
I was like no, I'm fuckinggonna get out of.
Was like no, I'm fuckinggetting the fuck out of here.
Like nah, bro, I'm moving shopsand they were like oh damn
really.
And I was like don't act likey'all are surprised, like cause,

(40:31):
like us three were probablytreated like the most shit, but
notices it and starts looking atyou.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yeah, I had one incident.
Can you do that too?
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
The owner came in and he he berated the tattoo yeah.
It was what the individualasked for, you know, and the
tattoo is shit from thebeginning, so there wasn't much
I could do about it.
He just wanted red in a fuckingclown.
So, I put red in the fuckingclown.
It was shitty, like I did whathe asked.
Exactly the one who comes down.
Obviously this is not my bestwork, but I didn't fucking

(41:09):
tattoo it.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yeah, I just put red in it.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
He's like oh, and the guy, he's like brandon, he
called me after.
He's like b, like, why are youstill there?
Yeah he's a white dude.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
I was like bro, like there'snot a lot of options out here
for me and this is california.
You just can't stop and be like, oh fuck this job I'm leaving,
I'm good.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
I got three fucking kids you know what I mean like.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
So they gotta eat first and foremost, and then my
little feelings will come afterthat exactly.
You know what I mean, because Igot a fucking job to do yeah so
you know a lot of people askwhy black tattoo artists stay in
you know harsh environments.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
It's a fucking job and we need to like nobody wants
to continue to move, to move,to move to move, to move
traditional unemployment, likepeople do, because we're
independent contractors, so it'slike we don't you know, we
don't have 401ks to fall back on.
We don't have.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
we don't work, we don't get paid and it's just
like a musician, like being in ashop practicing tattooing.
If you stay away from tattooingtoo long, you will lose it.
Oh for sure.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
You will lose it For sure.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
That's the reason we stay in environments that are a
little bit harsh, which we knowit.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
Yeah, we fucking know it.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
And we just but that's something that we've been
dealing with our whole livesexactly adversity right and
being seen as somethingdifferent.
Yeah, when you know there isabsolutely nothing fucking
different you know what I mean,but it's just like okay, like
this guy's a fucking asshole youknow what I mean and we just
all right, I'm not gonna talk toyou about certain things and

(42:39):
that's how, like, I can't talkto you about this, yeah you know
why?
because I'm gonna end up cussingyou out if I hear your response
to it, so let's not talk aboutthis or the fact that when
you're black in a shop, we'renot the ones that cause the
havoc on the black shit theybring it up to us they'll come

(43:00):
to your booth and be like do yousee what the black people are
doing on the bridge?
And be like do you agree withthat?
What's your intel on that?
Yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 4 (43:10):
That's crazy.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
And it's too like you become almost like the speaker
for all black people, right, youknow what I mean.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
But you don't want to be, because they don't fucking
get it anyways.

Speaker 3 (43:26):
And that's the thing it's.
Like you know, I try to tellpeople all the time like, first
of all, black people are not amonolith and one black person
can't speak for all of us.

Speaker 4 (43:37):
Period.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
So it's like when people come up to you and be
like oh, and be like oh, hey,you know, as a black, I'm not
trying to be racist, but as ablack person, how?

Speaker 4 (43:47):
do you feel?

Speaker 3 (43:48):
about.
I'm like bro, just shut thefuck up you already know what's
going down if you have topreface it with I'm not racist,
but you're about to be all kindsof racist that's what I found
frustrating was people lookingfor understanding through me and
then arguing, wanting to argueabout your answer?

Speaker 2 (44:08):
you fucking asked me exactly just take the answer and
go shut the fuck up exactly Istopped answering questions.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
Yeah, I stopped teaching, it's not our job to
educate and I say this, you know, as a black woman who tends to
date mostly white men becausethat's what I'm attracted to
it's fucking hard because I'mconstantly having to be looked
at as the educator of blackoppression, black plight, black

(44:36):
issue.
You know black problems in thiscountry and it's like, again,
they'll ask you about some shit,but when you tell them that
your experience, well, I don'tthink it's that hard.
Are you black?
Why did you ask me then?
What was the point when youtell them that your experience,
well, I don't think it's thathard.
Are you black?
Why did you ask me then?

Speaker 2 (44:47):
What was?

Speaker 3 (44:47):
the point of you asking me if you didn't really
want to understand my experience.
You know what.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
I mean Take it at core value.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
Yeah, like you can't, you don't, you're not allowed
to tell somebody what they'vebeen through and how they feel
about certain things that affectthem and don't affect you.
So it's like it's very hardbecause, as much as we want
people to understand, it's notour job to educate.
Like, bro, go read a book, goon the internet, look up some

(45:15):
shit, watch a video, go watch13th on Netflix, and that's what
I tell a lot of people go watch13th on Netflix.
Then come back to me and have aconversation because it's like
a lot of people don't reallywant to understand and want to
learn.
They just want to like kind ofinterject their opinion and be
like well, I think it doesn'tmatter what you think.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
How did Trump's office influence your tattooing
when, within those years, I wasangry.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
I was very angry.
I definitely lost clients, forsure.
I lost friends, for sure.
Um, and I became a little bitmore strict with the kind of
people that I tattooed, andthat's also why I'm so vocal on
my social media platforms aboutwhat my political beliefs are,
because I'm sorry, sorry, Idon't want to tattoo a Trump

(46:05):
supporter, like I don't want totattoo somebody whose beliefs
and values and the way they voteare threatening to me as a
person and to me, to the peoplethat I love.
And I get a lot of people thatask me like, oh, you can't be
friends with everybody, isn'tthat kind of like?
You know, you're being like thepeople who you talk about.
And I'm like, nah, bro, like Isay this all the time,

(46:27):
especially because, for somereason, I get a lot of
conservative Christian white menthat want to date me and I'm
like I remember you saying thatbefore too it's almost like a
fetish.

Speaker 4 (46:42):
Maybe that's it.
I don't know what y'all sayingshe might burn some shit, yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
You're not saying I wasn't saving you.
She's not the one for savingy'all.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
I'm not the one for saving If you can't tell by the
decor in here.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
I'm not the one for saving.
But I do think it's afetishization that a lot of,
whether it be me being tattooed,heavily tattooed and pierced,
because everybody's like, oh,she a freaky bitch, she tatted
and pierced, she freaky Um.
Or me being a black woman,being a black alt woman, you

(47:15):
know what I mean.
It's like oh, I had that before.
Let me go over here and tastethe rainbow real quick.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Um, and black women are hyper-sexualized already.
Anyway.
You know what I mean, and Idon't.
I don't explain to me.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
Oh, I mean, you see, like how we're viewed, like just
our bodies, like we tend to bea little bit curvier, and that's
already like.
I remember there was a blackteacher I forgot what state it
was in, but she's, she got atiny waist, fat booty, big
titties.
And she was literally wearing aturtleneck and some jeans and

(47:46):
they were like that'sinappropriate.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Yeah, because of the way her body looks.

Speaker 3 (47:47):
I seen that face If there was some skinny.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
No booty, Becky.
She was breaking the law withthat body.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
I'll tell you what.
She was fine as hell.
She needed to be arrested.
She was fine as hell, yeah, butit's like Get away from them,
kids.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
That was dangerous on purpose, that's.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
That's the kind of thing, that is, your children
with that body, yeah, but it'slike if another woman who didn't
have body it was white were thesame thing, nobody would say
anything to her.
So it's like our body,everything about us, is
automatically like fetishizedand hyper sexualized because of
what people see on BET and whatpeople see in rap videos and
what you know, just because wehappen to be more curvaceous,

(48:26):
like there are things that, likeI automatically know I can't
wear because I got big titties,because if a woman who had less
chest than me wore it, oh my god, that's so cute, but if I wear
it, that's really slutty, that'svery slutty.
You should go change justbecause my body parts are a
little bit bigger you know whatI mean, like even wearing this.

(48:47):

Speaker 2 (48:47):
I'm covered up, but you can still see you know, like
you can still see the shaperight right, right right you
know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
So, um, I think that it's.
It's that fetishization, Ithink it's that, you know,
taking something off the list,because a lot of white men will
be like, oh, I've never dated ablack chick before, I've never
fucked a black chick before, andI'm like, well, you're not
about to now, because you justsaid that stupid shit you might

(49:16):
have had a chance.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
You just closed your mouth, but there it is you know,
or that you're hot for a blackchick.

Speaker 4 (49:24):
I don't usually like black chicks, but you're hot for
a black chick.
I don't usually like blackchicks, but you're hot for a
black chick and I'm like bro,that's not a compliment that's
offensive.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
I had an uber driver straight up telling me I got in
the uber and he was older whiteman.
You're, you're very pretty andI'm like, oh, thank you, I
appreciate that.
No, you're like very gorgeous.
I'm like, oh, thank you, Ireally appreciate that, sir and
I'm like waiting for him to liketake me to my destination, and
he's like so what's your, what'syour nationality?
I said American and he was likewell, you know what I mean?
I said well, no, because Ianswered the question that you

(49:51):
asked me, but I'm assuming thatyou mean what's your ethnicity
well, yeah that I'm black.
Well, what are you mixed with?
Black, well, but but no.
What are you mixed with?
Like one of your parents iswhite, right, sir?
Nobody in my family is white.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
But I mean, you look exotic.
I'm like there's that otherword.
And I'm just like I'm black,sir, Like nobody in my family is
white Like I'm black on blackon black, Like, and he's like
well, you have to be mixed withwhite because you're so pretty,
come on.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
I said with white, because you're so pretty, come
on.
I said, come on, the way thatyou're getting a one star review
after you drop me off.
And no, no tip, no tip.

Speaker 3 (50:35):
Yeah, like what are some of the things that you've
done in your career to getaround some of the roadblocks
that you face.
Um, I just have a very Idefinitely have a very masculine
energy about me.
Okay, so I tend to be like onsome no bullshit, fuck you, I
don't care, like type shit, likeyou're not gonna tell me I
can't do something.
Um, and I've always been likethat.
Granted, I have been kind of apeople pleaser throughout parts

(50:57):
of my life because I didn't wantto rock the boat in some
instances.
But being in the tattooindustry, like, you really have
to develop a fucking tough skin.
You have to, especially being awoman and especially being
black.
You've got to develop a fuckinghundred times tougher of a skin
being in a white, male,straight dominated industry.

(51:17):
You know what I mean because,like you said earlier, people
don't want me there anyway inthe first place.
so now I've got to prove myselfto be 10 times better than most
of the people that I'm tattooingaround and I've got to have a
tough skin to let them knowyou're not going to get to me
Like I can take anything thatyou can throw at me and I'm
going to dish it out back to youLike.
One of my favorite pastimes islike offending the fuck out of

(51:40):
like men in the industry thatI've worked with, or like even
just like men that come at me acertain way and expect me to
just take it.
I'm like oh, I'm about to makeyou cry, bro like, you know what
I mean and I said like somevicious ass shit to people and
people are like, oh, did youhave to take it that far?
I'm like so you don't thinkthey took it too far when they
came up at me crazy like when Iwas on Ink Master Redemption and

(52:01):
this dude is literallyscreaming in my face, yelling at
me, talking all kinds of shit,but as soon as I pop off back at
him and tell him to shut thefuck up now everybody's got a
problem right you know what Imean it's like well, black anger
is different now I'm an angryblack woman, right, you know
what I mean, black woman.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
You guys better watch out, she's raising her fucking
voice.
Everybody watch out she'sgetting past.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
She, she's yelling.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Fucking A you guys better, run you better run for
your lives, man.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
She might bust a cat, be your ass.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
So would you say you were always playing that
offensive, defensive line, orwould you ever be more defensive
?
Keep your mouth shut before youtake somebody out, or how has
that gotten to where you're atnow?

Speaker 3 (52:44):
So I'm very professional, first and foremost
.

Speaker 4 (52:48):
First and foremost, I'm always professional.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
Um so, yeah, so in certain spaces, yes, I would
stay a little bit quiet at first, like, say, if I just started
at a shop because I don't wantto rock the boat, because I need
a job, you know what I mean.
So, but in the beginning, it'slike I said it's always usually
chill in the beginning, it'salways good, and then people's
everybody starts gettingcomfortable with each other and

(53:12):
there's always shit talking,banter in shops.
That's just part of tattooculture.
There's always this banter, butthen people take it too far.
Then it becomes malicious, thenit becomes you're actually
trying to cut me down, you'retrying to hurt my feelings.
It's not just a fun funny ha ha, let's Josh back and forth,
kind of thing.
So once it starts to get tothat point, you know I would

(53:46):
start to stand up for myselfmore like, and I would start
coming back with the like,really offensive.
You know responses, and thenI'd leave.
You know what I mean, and Iwould just leave because I'm
like I don't want thisenvironment that I'm supposed to
be creating in to, to, to betoxic, because then that stifles
your creativity.
You know, then I'm not givingclients my best work.
I'm not giving clients my bestme.
I'm not giving clients my bestenergy and my best attitude

(54:11):
because my environment's fuckedup.
You know what I'm saying.
So at a point you really got tojust be like all right, I got
to make my exit strategy.
You know, what I mean.
But now, since I work by myself, like the last shop I worked at
was was awesome.
It was a buddy of mine whoowned the shop and he had been
trying to get me to come work atthe shop for a while.
But the shop that was treatingme like shit.

(54:32):
I was like, well, I don't wantto be disloyal.
And then they started treatingme like we're shit.
So I was like, okay, fuck this,I'm out, you know.
So the last shop I was, I wasthere for seven years.
Awesome, you know.
We were like fucking likefamily for real, for real.
Um, great group of guys.
Um, and I never had to be like,well, fuck these fools.

Speaker 4 (54:52):
Like I never had that, thatthat feeling.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
And then when I left, it was to come here and start
my own shop, you know.
So it wasn't on no bad bloodtype shit, it wasn't on no.
Oh my god, I fucking hate thisplace.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
I need to get out, so you found a good piece of yeah,
exactly uh, space where you canfeel comfortable exactly, yeah
I had to create my own yeah Ihad to create my own and
sometimes that's what it takesis creating your own space and
getting out of the typicaltattoo environment.

Speaker 3 (55:17):
Now, do I miss having other youknow coworkers to like go back
and forth with sometimes or liketo talk to or whatever.
Sometimes I do miss that likecamaraderie, a little bit but
being just in here by myselfwith, like me and my client most
of the time, like he'll tellyou, like the vibe is just like
so much more chill.
It's so much more calm.

(55:38):
Calm, like we can talk aboutwhatever without worrying if
someone's gonna fucking say somestupid shit or like, oh, that's
fucking gay.
Like you know what I mean.
Like we can watch whatever wewant on tv.
Like we can.
We're free to be ourselves.
We don't have to waterourselves down.
Um, it's just, it's relaxing.
Relaxing.
You know, I offer snacks, I gotsnacks.
I got drinks.

(55:59):
I got you know what I mean.
Um, I w I've.
I wanted this to be a nurturingand calm, chill environment for
me and my clients.
You know, I wanted this to belike an extension of my living
room, essentially.
You know, and people are likedude, this is like so much
different than any tattooexperience I've had vibe and
that's what I wanted yeah youknow like it's it's not the

(56:21):
typical tattoo shop, vibe likeit literally feels like you're
getting tattooed in my livingyou can walk the roscos from
here I, I still haven't beenover there, I know take my black
card.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Take my black card black card.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
Black card yeah, we can edit that out.
I still ain't been to thatrestaurant.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
I will say so.
Along with the happiness thatyou've created here, you're also
kind of a philanthropist in inthe in the outside world.
Yeah, you, you take groceriesto, to those less less fortunate
, right, yeah, so.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
I work with the non.
I work with two nonprofitorganizations.
The one that Zach's talkingabout is it's called the Long
Beach Community Table and it's afood rescue, so they take food
that would like otherwise belike thrown out or discarded,
and we rehome the groceries forpeople who are low income, who
are on government assistance,usually older people.
So there's the warehouse andeverybody gets the groceries

(57:20):
ready for the people who havesigned up for the program and I
go and I pick the groceries upand I go deliver them to like my
little regulars, so, and I likeit because they're actually in
my neighborhood Like.
So it's like you know, I'm partof the community that I'm
delivering in Um, and it's niceto just see these people every
day and they're so grateful andthankful.
And I have one guy, his name'sTeddy, and I've had to make him

(57:43):
my last stop on my route nowCause he loves to just chat, um,
and he's like an oldergentleman, he's like he's like
67 or something, um, and he justloves to chat.
So we'll just chat, we'll talkabout politics, we'll talk about
whatever.
You know he's going through asthis little cat and I always
play with this little cat like,and the cat loves to see me and,
um, you know, if there's, uh,sometimes we have, um, you know,

(58:08):
people on our list that mightmove and not notify the
organization, so I'll be leftwith an extra bag of groceries.
So usually I groceries, sousually I'll come here to the
shop and like divvy it up inlike two or three bags and then
I'll just go and give it to likesome of the like unhoused
people on the street.
Um, so I I love doing that yousaid unhoused you know, we've

(58:28):
tried to graduate from homelessyeah
go ahead.
I feel like I didn't catchmyself more often I catch myself
too, still um, but I thinkunhoused just kind of gives
people a little bit more dignity.
You know what I mean, because Ithink that people on the street
do deserve to have some kind ofdignity and be treated like
they're also people.
It depends on if you'reshitting on things.

(58:49):
I mean, you know there arepeople that shit on things
sometimes I mean there?
was a guy here who wiped hisblood all over the front of my
shop one time.
And I mean there was a guy herewho wiped his blood all over
the front of my shop one time.
That's a real horror scene andit looked like a murder scene.
But I was more concerned withis he okay?
Because I can clean that up andI can paint over it?
So it's not.
So you got a good heart.
Yeah, Like I'm very empatheticBecause that could be me.
You know what I mean,Especially because mental health

(59:11):
issues and as someone who hasdealt with mental health issues,
that could have been me youknow what I mean.
That could be me at any time.
You know what I mean and Ithink that people forget that,
especially in in an economicsituation like we have in this
country now, bro, so many peopleare one paycheck away from

(59:31):
being homeless.
So you got to think about if Iwas in this situation, how would
I want people to treat me.
You know what I mean and it'snothing to be kind to people.
It doesn't fucking cost youanything.
Facts, you know what I mean.
Like people walk through thisworld just being fucking
assholes and dicks.
Our industry is a perfectexample.
Tattoo artists literally havereputations for being fucking

(59:52):
assholes, and most of them are.
Yeah, and it's just like you'vegot these like old school
tattooers that are just likeanger is their personality.
Oh fuck this, these pussy assmotherfuckers.
Like you know what I'm like.
I was on Instagram the otherday and somebody had made like a
funny reel or whatever and itwas like how people used to

(01:00:15):
tattoo and it's like some dudesin a warehouse and one dude's
got no gloves on and he's justlike packing ink recklessly into
this guy who's like on afreaking wood bench, like you
know, with no shirt on, and thenit pans to tattoo shops now and
it's like someone sitting inlike a tats old chair with a
blanket and like noise cancelingheadphones and snacks.

(01:00:36):
And the tattoo artist is likemassaging their arm, and then
there's like all these and itclearly it's supposed to be
funny, right?

Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
You go to the comment section.
All these pissed off ass tattooshops have become fucking yoga
studios.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
This is gay and I'm like cause forbid.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
We want our clients and ourselves to be comfortable
right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Right Evolution.

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
Like evolution.
Like y'all are mad at comfort,yeah, like how are?
You pissed off at comfort.
It's like the same old schooltattoo artists that are mad,
that like artists are likewrapping the fuck out of our
machines and sensi wrap so soit's comfortable like all right,
bro.
Like have fun with that carpaltunnel arthritis.
Like you know what I mean.
Like how are you mad at theevolution of an industry that is

(01:01:19):
helping not only the client butthe artist too?
You know what I'm saying.
Like it's like people just wantto treat their clients like
shit.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
It's a reputation, that there's an ego.
It's very ego based.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
It's very ego based, and it's like you know people
think, oh, I got to treat peoplelike shit in order to be seen
as manly.
Right, you know?
And that is the exact oppositeof what, to me, being a man is.
You know, being masculine to me, in my eyes, is being somebody
who's a protector, somebodywho's compassionate, somebody

(01:01:54):
who's empathetic, somebody whocan be vulnerable at times and
somebody who can be a part oftheir community instead of be a
nuisance to their community.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
That's why it's so hard to rent and open up places
and all of that is that attitudethat follows us.
You know that's not themajority of tattoo shops anymore
.
It's not.
It is no longer that attitudeand that's amazing to see it is.

Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
It's so good to see because tattooing is such a
beautiful art form.
You know what I mean, and Itell people all the time that
the relationship between anartist and a client is very
intimate because this person istrusting you to put something on
their body for the rest oftheir life.
They're trusting you to do itsafely and they're trusting you

(01:02:39):
to like, take care of them in alittle way.

Speaker 4 (01:02:41):

Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
And it's like and they're paying you, so why would
you not want to treat them well?

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
Right, you know.
So it's like A lot of money too, like we're not cheap.
Yeah, so it's like, yeah,you're going to treat you nicely
, exactly, I'll probably evenbuy you lunch if you need lunch.
Yeah, you know like.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
Like I'm always like hey, you want Postmates, hey, I
got.
You know.
I provide snacks to all myclients.
I give all of my first timeclients little goodie bag,
aftercare bags to take home withthem, you know, with like an
aftercare card, some candy, somestickers, like whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
And that's why artists older artists are pissed
a little bit too, becausethey're losing clients and
they're no longer able to.
You know, tattoo in the samefashion they were because they
have old practices, you knowthey refuse to change with the
time evolve.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
Yeah, they refuse to evolve.
That's going to get you leftbehind real fucking quick in a
very ever evolving industry.
Like bro, like even me beingtattooing for 16 years.
Tattooing is wildly differentthan what it was when I first
started.
Wildly different in a number ofways, and you can either roll

(01:03:48):
with that evolution and take itas it comes at you and learn to
adapt, or you can be stuck inyour old ways and get left the
fuck behind and then now you'repissed off at everybody but
yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Right, and that's pretty much in the industry now.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
Because technology is just advancing so fast.
Oh yeah, if you're stuck inyour old ways, you're going to
get left behind.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
You're going to get left behind.
As simple as that, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
You're working on a book as well.

Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
So I'm in the very, very, very beginning stages of
writing the book, cause I'm notsure which way I want to go with
it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
We'll start the promotion now.

Speaker 3 (01:04:18):
Yeah, hopefully it snowballs.
I have a couple of books thatI'm wanting to work on.
One is from the perspective,and I have a few titles that
I've like thrown out there, um.
One is going to be obviouslyabout my sober journey, um, and
then how my getting sober led tomy current success.
Um, I also want to do one onbecoming less easily digestible

(01:04:45):
for men as a woman anddiscontinuing the people pleaser
phase of my life and learningto just be who I am, say what I
want, and the people who are forme will find me.

(01:05:10):
But, especially given thedynamics between men and women
these days and how patriarchy isreally starting to be looked at
as like, okay, this mightactually be a problem.
You know what I mean, becauseit's very oppressive.
You know we're seeing that withthe overturning of roe v wade,
women are literally fighting forthe autonomy to our own bodies.
We're literally fighting to beable to make medical decisions
with our own bodies, and now theconservative party is talking

(01:05:32):
about just coming forcontraception all together like
bitches, y'all having babieslike you know what I?
mean, and it's like and nowwomen are like, okay, well,
we're just not gonna fuck y'all.
And now men are upset like it'slike y'all are gonna have to
give us something more y'allstopped.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
They started doing that a long time ago.
Stop fucking us.
Yeah, just you know.

Speaker 3 (01:05:51):
And I mean because it's like at what point do you
keep stop settling?

Speaker 4 (01:06:01):
You know what I mean as a woman you know, I've
stopped dating because I'm justlike, bro, I'm done with this.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
It's a fucking shit show out there.
It's a shit show.
Like it's like pulling teeth,asking for someone to be like
accountable for their actions,to not be a creepy perv and to
like have some kind of emotionalintelligence and like be doing
something you know what I meanit's like you gold digging bitch
like well, you ain't got nogold baby.

(01:06:27):
So what you talking about likewhat you have no gold to dig but
like for me as a veryindependent, self-made woman,
that's intimidating to a lot ofmen and the fact that like I'm a
no bullshit kind of woman andI'm not going to take your shit,
I'm not gonna put up withbullshit, I'm not settling like,
that's intimidating because youcan't control me.
I'm not a woman that can becontrolled.

(01:06:48):
You can't knock me down a fewpegs to deal with your bullshit
and I'm not easily and this is Isee the feminist side that
rearing.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
When do you?

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):
do you follow your man?

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
do you allow him to lead?
If you're married, do you allowyour spouse to lead?
Is there?

Speaker 3 (01:07:11):
if they're capable.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Is that he's capable?

Speaker 4 (01:07:13):
because you married him right right.

Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
I don't want to get married personally.
Is that?

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
a classic standard of marriage.

Speaker 3 (01:07:19):
Does that work for you in your I don't want to get
married, so I don't really havea viewpoint on that.
I would love to have along-term partner.
I guess I should preface thisby saying I've been single for
15 years.
I've dated, but I've only hadone serious boyfriend and that
was about 15, 16 years ago andit one like serious boyfriend

(01:07:40):
and that was about 15 16 yearsago um, and it's partly because
I refuse to settle because Iknow my worth, and I hear that
shit a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
Though I hear that shit a lot, I refuse to settle
y'all better start fuckingsettling a little bit, because
because you know what?

Speaker 3 (01:07:51):
I can provide everything that I need for
myself in my life, why would Isettle for some ain't shit,
buster, ass, fucking dude?
That's only going to come makemy life ten times harder than be
at peace where I am now,because my thing is people look
at me so bad because y'all gotto take accountability but men
have been able to get by.

(01:08:12):
This is my thing.
Men have been able to get by onthe bare minimum for so long.
And in the past women did needmen because we couldn't even
fucking have credit cards till1974.
We couldn't have our own bankaccounts, we couldn't own a
house, we couldn't have jobs.
So we, we needed the man to bea protector and provider.
Go 50, 50 with a bitch andstill, but it's not truly 50.

(01:08:37):
50 because they want you tohave a job, but then they want
you to go home and take care ofkids, they want you to suck
their dick, they want you to dothe dishes, clean the house,
make you dinner, and then theyjust go to work and come home
and just are receiving princesstreatment essentially.
So that's not 50, 50 baby,that's 80 20 I will say too,
that is a bad trend.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
I do see, uh, just in general, um guys wanting to be
protected and provided for yeahwhich we know we aren't.
That's why I think, that's whythis is kind of news to you,
because, yeah, because you knowyou're not that kind of guy,
because you're married, rightyeah, oh, damn near, yeah,
working on it, yeah, yeah soit's like that's.
I think that's why this is abig surprise.
They're not big surprise to me.

Speaker 3 (01:09:14):
I see it, yeah so dating has become women.
Since you know, we're CEOs, nowwe're business owners.
We, we bad bitches out here.
You know, I can provide formyself and I can do everything
for myself, so I don't need aman for anything.
So if you cannot rise to theoccasion and meet my standards,
you can stay over there, becauseI don't need you.

(01:09:35):
I would love a long-termpartner.
You know who doesn't want lovein their life.
You know I would love to findthat.
But I have cultivated such apeaceful life for myself and the
life that I have built formyself and the woman that I have
become.
I am very protective of her andI refuse to let a man come into
my life and dismantle all ofthat because heartbreak is too

(01:09:59):
risky.
The risk to reward is very muchnot equal, because I have dated
people who will come into mylife and try to change me or try
to knock me down a few pegs,like, oh, this bitch thinks she
up here, let me knock her down afew pegs.
Honey, I'm not.
I'm not that one.
You better go fuck around withsomebody else right you know, um

(01:10:22):
, because I love my life.
people have this misconceptionthat women who are over 30 and
single are miserable as fuck.
And we over here, sliding downthe wall, crying, throwing a oh
my god, I don't have a man,nobody want to be with me, I
don't give a damn, I don't givea damn, I don't give a damn.
I and people will be.
Oh, you're going to be a lonelycat lady and you're going to
die alone.
Bro, I got two cats, I am a catlady and I love my little

(01:10:43):
children, my little fur children.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
But I'm not.

Speaker 3 (01:10:46):
I love.
I love my cat babies, but I'mnot afraid to be alone.
You know what?

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
I have a community, but it sounds a little bit like
you're afraid to be led as well.
No Part of being a man istaking your lady and leading and
protecting your family andcreating security.
Yeah, and it's not necessarilyabout a financial 50 50.
Yeah, it's a mental state.

Speaker 4 (01:11:14):
And that's the thing A lot of men don't have money
and I don't want it to be like,hey, like, you're defined by
your money, which men often aredefined by their money, and
that's not right.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
Women.

Speaker 3 (01:11:26):
Men did, because men have always led with their money
, because historically men havebeen protectors and providers
and they were the breadwinners.
Because, again, women couldn'twork.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
The reason I say men is because if I go to Zach and I
say oh, I'm a tattoo artist.

Speaker 3 (01:11:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
He doesn't give a fuck about what, how little or
how much I'm making.
We're either friends or we'renot.
But if I were to go to a womanand say, hey, yeah, I ain't
gonna fucking job, you know whatI?

Speaker 3 (01:11:52):
mean, why would you expect a woman to set if you
don't have a job?
And I got a job and I got stuffgoing for me and I'm providing
for myself, so I'm supposed totake you on as a child,
essentially because you don'thave a job?

Speaker 2 (01:12:03):
no, because you know, I think the problem is, is that
finances and all these otherthings, let me say that also
your priorities are fucked up.
A broke man don't deserve loveI'm not saying that but a
homeless man don't?

Speaker 3 (01:12:16):
I'm not saying that, but I'm saying your priorities
because when I'm not on my shit,the last thing I'm thinking
about is trying to go out hereand date somebody.
I need to be focused on myselfand getting myself right before
I can go out there and try todate and give anything to
anybody, because I'm not goodover here if you don't have a
job and you can't pay your bills.

(01:12:37):
Your last focus should bedating.
You should not be focused onother people.

Speaker 2 (01:12:41):
That's fucked up.
It's because that's a societalrule now, because you have to
have somebody who contributes toyour circle, to your financial
success, because everything's sofucking expensive out here
Unless you got it all on yourown.

Speaker 4 (01:12:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:55):
I disagree with that.
I feel like men are alwayslooking at as uh a finance.
Nobody ever wants to take datedbroke man, even if he is the
best man yeah and that's thefucking problem is that you know
, even if it's fucking denzelwashington, but he ain't got the
movies, he ain't shit.
And I think that's like myproblem with some of the

(01:13:16):
feminist views a little bit isthat they're so harsh towards us
.
But we were here specificallyand raised by our fathers to be
providers yeah you know what Imean.
And then over the years you know, under this big umbrella of
fuck shit, you know all of themen and you know you got some
that are having babies and yougot some that are dissing women.

(01:13:37):
But you also have some that areactually doing it right, yeah,
but those aren't the ones thatever get talked about.

Speaker 3 (01:13:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:44):
Those aren't the ones thatanybody appreciates, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:13:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
I guess my question is is how do you want to be
looked at?
How does a feminist, somebodywho doesn't need a man, yeah.
Who's got all the things thatthey want.
How does a man woo you?
Yeah, what's?

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
that?
What's that blueprint for anyof the listeners that watches
out there?

Speaker 3 (01:14:08):
For me, I need a man who is emotionally intelligent.
I need a man who's in touchwith his emotions and his
feelings.
I don't like it when a man'slike oh, I'm a man, I don't have
emotions except anger and Ican't talk about my feelings,
because feelings are gay likethat.
You miss me with that bullshit,bro.
You're a fucking grown-ass manat your big-ass age.
You got to come out with thatbullshit.
Um.
So I need someone who I feelsafe around, like safe, you know

(01:14:31):
what I mean safe to bevulnerable, safe to be open,
safe to be led.
You have to prove to me thatyou can lead me somewhere,
because I can already leadmyself.
But if you claim to lead me,where are we going?
You can't just say a leader andthen not back that up with
leader qualities, cause a lot ofmen want to say they can lead
and then they let you down byproving that they can't lead,

(01:14:53):
because sometimes they can'tlead themselves and that's not
to say all men by any stretch ofthe imagination.
But I need to feel safe.
I need to feel taken care ofemotionally, physically,
mentally, spiritually, sexually.
You know I need to feel likeyou've got my back.
You know what I mean In certainsituations, like we're in this

(01:15:15):
together, like I need to feelthat you want to be a partner,
not just you want a womanbecause, anybody can say, oh, I
want a girlfriend, I want a wife.
Do you want to be a partner?
This is a partnership.
You know what I mean, Um, and Itell people all the time.
People are like well, maybeyou're too picky.
I said no.
First of all, I have standards,but my standards are high for

(01:15:39):
other people because they'rehigh for me.
Everything that I have on mylist of standards for a man is
because I have those same thingson the standard list for myself
.
So I'm not asking in anythingfrom a partner that I don't
require of myself and that I'mnot willing to offer a partner
because it goes both ways.
Anything that I want out of apartner is because I want to
also give that to my partner.
Like I'm a very nurturing andloving person.

(01:16:00):
Like, if I'm dating somebody, Ilove to cook for them.
If I see something while I'mout that like, oh, they would
like that.
Like I love to purchase it forthem, Cause I think men deserve
gifts too.
Like I think men deserveflowers.
Like you know, um, I think mendeserve to be treated as well.
You know what I mean, Not tojust be the giver all the time
and I love to give, but I wouldalso like to receive, because a

(01:16:22):
lot of the times when I've datedI feel like I just give and
give and give and it's not beingreciprocated.

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
I will say something clicked when she was explaining
that a lot of the things shesaid what we talked about in our
last episode.
So shameless plug to our lastepisode that just launched today
with Brian Foster we wereexplaining what a true alpha was
.

Speaker 3 (01:16:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
Well, we believe a true alpha was so sitting there
with three seasoned men, and alot of the things you listed
were just that.
Yeah, so tap, tap into that Ifyou guys haven't listened to
that episode yet but yeah, itsounds, sounds like that's.

Speaker 3 (01:17:03):
It sounds like that's what you're wanting.
And a lot of women will tellyou the same thing, like, yes,
it's good to have a man who,like, is financially stable and
not and and this is what I saytoo because people are like, oh,
you want a man who has money,because you're a gold digger,
maybe I don't need any of yourmoney.
It's not because I want yourmoney, it's because I'm, you
know.
You know I make six figures, soI do very well for myself.
So with a certain tax bracketcomes a certain lifestyle.
I want to have a partner that Ican share in that lifestyle

(01:17:25):
with.
I'm not saying you got to makeexactly six figures like I do,
but if I want to go travelingand you can't go because you are
not financially stable, I'mstill going to go on that trip
because I want to do that.
If I want to go to a nicesteakhouse on a Tuesday for no
reason and you can't go becauseyour finances are not in order,

(01:17:45):
I still want to go.
So I want to be able to be ableto enjoy certain things with my
partner that we can share in,because we're both at a stable
point in our life.

Speaker 4 (01:17:55):

Speaker 3 (01:17:56):
It's not about oh, I'm trying.
I want to take thismotherfucking money like you
know, take it and run um,because I have my own, you know,
I don't need yours, you know,because I I do well for myself.
Um, but I want to be able to,you know, be on like kind of a
level playing field with mypartner, because I want somebody
who we can both come in as ourbest selves and then build
something even greater on top ofthat you know what I mean

(01:18:19):
like build on some and build anempire type shit.
Um, so it's not just aboutfinance, it's about the mental,
it's about the physical, it'sabout the spiritual, it's about
the you know, do I feel safewith you, you know?
And I I haven't really felttypically safe around a lot of
men and I've told Zach this amillion times, like cause we

(01:18:39):
dated for five minutes before.
That's actually how we met.

Speaker 4 (01:18:41):
We met on hinge, oh, oh that was wrong, but we met on
.

Speaker 3 (01:18:50):
we did meet on hinge like what, like 2020 or
something, um.
And then he essentially told mein a very nice way you drink
too much bitch.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
And then he essentially told me in a very
nice way you drink too muchbitch.
Oh shit, you want to knowexactly what I said.
I said I just can't keep upwith your lifestyle.
Yeah, and that's exactly whathe said.

Speaker 3 (01:19:02):
Yeah, very well, said , that's exactly what he said
and I was like you know, Itotally respect that.
Then we just went our separateways, you know.
And then, after I got sober andcreated the shop Instagram you
like, stumbled upon it.
You were like shit.

Speaker 1 (01:19:16):
I was like I remember this person.

Speaker 3 (01:19:17):
Yeah, I was looking at her artwork, yeah, and then
he was like hey, do you want towork on a project for me?
And I was like dude, fuck, yeah, you know what I mean.
Um, and then you know we triedto a few times to you know what
I mean?
Like zach is a fucking awesomedude like.

(01:19:39):
He's an amazing guy and Iappreciate that.
I tell him this all the fuckingtime I'm like.
You are literally one of theonly fucking men that I feel
truly safe with, safe besides mybrother.
Truly safe around, truly like,like.
You're just a good man.
You know what I?
mean, and I tell him that allthe time like you are a good man

(01:20:00):
.
You know what I mean, Um, andthat's what I, you know, that's
what I'm looking for.
Somebody who can make me feellike that, you know what I,
somebody who's just I.
I just know deep down this is agood man, Like this is a good
man like all the way around, allencompassing.
A good man who's not going tofuck you around, who's not going
to fuck you over, who's notgoing to be manipulative, who's

(01:20:22):
not going to be trying to getone over on you, who's not going
to be I'm just get somecoochies on this bitch and I'm
out.
You know what I mean Like agood, solid man, and that is
kind of hard to find these days.
I'm not saying that they're notout there, but, um, it's hard,
especially, you know, going backto like being a woman who's so,
who's got her own, isindependent and might be

(01:20:43):
intimidating to a lot of men,Cause I've had guy friends tell
me like you're kind ofintimidating bitch.
Um, it's hard to find a man whois okay with who I am as a
person, as a woman, who canprovide for herself and who will
speak up for herself and whodoesn't take bullshit.
It's hard to find someone whohas those qualities that you're

(01:21:04):
mutually attracted to.
That's going to let you be you.
You know what I mean, Um, soyou know.
I took a little time.
If love is not a part of my uhpath, this go around in life,
then that might be somethingthat I have to accept.
And I've got to be happy with mylife the way it is, because
what if this is it?
You know, what if this is howmy life is going to be?

(01:21:27):
What?

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
if I am single for the rest of my life?
What if it ends tomorrow?
Yeah, what if I get hit?

Speaker 3 (01:21:31):
by a fucking bus, knock on wood, hope that don't
happen.
But you know I've got to behappy with where I'm at in life
now, with who I am as a personnow, with the love that I
experience from my community,from my friends, from my family,
from my clients.
You know, sometimes romanticlove might not be on the agenda,
you know, and I've got to cometo terms with that and I really

(01:21:52):
have come to terms with that inthe last year.
I got back into dating lastyear after being celibate for
like a year and a half umworking on my sober journey and
my spiritual journey, and um, itwasn't horrible, you know um,
the people that I dated weregood people, um, we just weren't
aligned for whatever reason, um, you know, whether it was they

(01:22:13):
wanted kids and I don't wantkids, um, or we had political
differences, um, but it waswildly different kids and I
don't want kids, um, or we hadpolitical differences, um, but
it was wildly different than thepeople that I dated
pre-sobriety, you know, um, itwas just a different type of
maturity you know, um, but it'shard to find, even find people
that I want to go on a date with, you know, because a lot of
these men will just be sayingoutrageous shit.

(01:22:34):
You know what I mean, especiallyon dating sites, you know.
You'll just have, you'll belike damn you, fine as hell,
like I'm trying to hit and I'mjust like where's your mother,
do you?

Speaker 2 (01:22:45):
do you get people in here specifically to try and
sleep with you?
In the shop yeah, to get atattoo just to try and fucking?

Speaker 1 (01:22:52):
or is that not so much anymore, since you?

Speaker 3 (01:22:54):
not so much anymore, like I used to have clients that
would hit on me likeincessantly all the time and
then I'm like, okay, like I'vehad to drop a few clients
because they would make meuncomfortable.
Um, but I don't get thatanymore, I think because people
realize like I'm not to befucked with, so they don't even
try finally get finally clearedyou know what I mean.

(01:23:16):
Like I'm not even go because I'mclicked, yeah, you know what I
mean.
Like, oh, I'm not even goingBecause I'm at work, bro, like
you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:23:20):
Well, it doesn't seem like it would be an easy route
if it was no.
It's not just going to be no,it's going to be no and
something you know cleverwrapped around it Usually.

Speaker 3 (01:23:29):
But I don't.
I'm not like rude to men,advances I, to be honest with
you.
I usually just say I have aboyfriend.
Because if you say anythingelse, then it's like well, why?
Well, how come?
Well, why am I ugly, well,what's?

Speaker 2 (01:23:41):
and it's like, bro, like I'm just not interested,
huh no man, I've always donethat really, yeah, okay, I've
always done that.

Speaker 3 (01:23:47):
Yeah, I always like if people get all pissed off and
they get denied by it like allof a sudden, you're a fat bitch
that's wild, it's like damn Iwasn't a fat bitch before, but
okay, you know what I mean yeah,it's like sucks for you,
because you got denied by a fatbitch um double whammy.

(01:24:09):
Okay, yeah, you got denied, andit was by a fat bitch oh shit
buddy.
You better get it together, butyeah, it's rough man and it's
funny because people are alwayslike, well, and it's usually men
, uh, I'll be out, like you'reon a date and like I'll be
getting looks.
And the guy's like, damn, likeyou get this much attention,

(01:24:31):
like when you.
I'm like, yeah, you know, Ijust come to territory and
they're like I mean, that mustfeel good Like getting so much
attention from people.
I'm like no, it actuallyfucking sucks.

Speaker 4 (01:24:38):
Like it's terrible.

Speaker 3 (01:24:51):
You, you know, but at the same time it's like you
know, I tell people prettyprivilege isn't all it's cracked
up to be, because it's a reallyshitty feeling when you realize
that people only give a fuckabout all of this out here and
don't care about in here.
In here, it sucks to beconstantly looked at as like a

(01:25:11):
thing, like a play thing.

Speaker 4 (01:25:13):
You know what I mean like a to be lusted after and
not loved.

Speaker 3 (01:25:17):
That's a fucking shitty feelingoh so, while, yes, I do get a
lot of attention, male attention, um, all the time it's
exhausting because most of thepeople that are like saying like
, if it's like a genuinecompliment, like oh my gosh, you
look gorgeous or you'rebeautiful, or I like your dress,
or I like your energy or yoursmile, love those compliments

(01:25:40):
like, like a genuine complimentfrom people who don't even want
anything from you.
But then it's like the damn girl, you got a fat ass, or like you
know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (01:25:49):
Just like bullshit, like that.

Speaker 3 (01:25:50):
The cat, calling the, yelling at me from across the
street or the like, looking atme in a weird with the fault
being followed.

Speaker 2 (01:25:56):
Cause we got to let you know.

Speaker 3 (01:25:57):
Yeah, Like it's like yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:26:02):
Being all up in your face and like trying to corner
you type of thing you know likethat's.

Speaker 3 (01:26:12):
It's scary number one because you don't know what
this person's gonna do.
You don't know what they'recapable of, you don't know what
their mental state is.
Um, you know, sometimes it'sscary to reject men because
women have been killed for notgiving someone their phone
number right, you know what Imean.

Speaker 2 (01:26:21):
I saw some stories like man so it's like it's crazy
.

Speaker 3 (01:26:26):
So that's another thing that goes hand in hand
with dating, is it's actuallykind of frightening?
Because, you don't like.
You know women, we go on datesand you know you hear guys say
what's your worst fear aboutgoing on a first date?
Oh, that she don't look likeher pictures.
But for a woman it's that wemight literally get murdered or
raped.
Like I'm always giving like, hey, this is the guy that I'm going

(01:26:47):
out with.
This is what he looks like.
This is his profile.
This is his phone number.
This is where he lives.
I'm sharing my location everytime I go out with somebody.
So it's like it's almost waymore struggle than it's worth to
even be out here dating halfthe time anyway, because it's a
it's kind of scary.
Like you never really know whatsomeone's capable of um and and

(01:27:10):
what kind of dangers that youmight be in every time that you
fucking leave the house, youknow.
So it's like, yeah, cool it's.
It's, it's cool to be prettyand shit, but you know that
comes out of risk it comes outof risk and it comes with a lot
of unwanted attention.
So I've always got to have myhead on a swivel, like I mean
most women do.
But it's just, you know it's.

(01:27:34):
No woman wants to be fuckingyelled at walking down the
street.
No woman wants to be told shehas a fat ass or big titties or
you know, whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:27:41):
I mean if you know her, Like if I had a man, of
course I want him to be like howbig of an ass are we talking
about?

Speaker 3 (01:27:47):
I mean, you know, I got a dump truck back here Like
what if?

Speaker 2 (01:27:49):
she's wearing her booty shorts and they're out Nah
.

Speaker 1 (01:27:55):
And we have both been on construction sites very,
very high.
If she's wearing booty shortsand they're out for everybody to
see you can't say no, becausewe don't dress for y'all.
I don't care at all period,Because we don't dress for y'all
.

Speaker 3 (01:28:04):
Yeah, yeah sometimes, especially bro, california, hot
as fuck yeah you know what I'msaying.
So it's like women, like we,want to be able to like wear
things that we feel comfortableand sexy and without having
someone be rude and creepy aboutit.
Like it's like because thething is lesbians, don't do that
shit what you mean lesbians.
Don't act like that.
Lesbians will see a woman withcheeks out and whatever and not

(01:28:26):
act like they have noself-control.
It's a it's literally a dudething hell, yeah, like yeah, but
we can't

Speaker 2 (01:28:36):
control ourselves, but and sometimes we see that as
complimenting you, um,sometimes we see that as giving
you like, oh, letting you knowyour shit is hot, I mean, but
you can say that without itbeing overtly sexual.
Yeah, yeah, there's limits.

Speaker 3 (01:28:48):
right, there's a difference between like oh hey,
you look good or you knowwhatever.
And then being like, oh damn,you got a fat ass, like that's
just rude you know what I mean.
Like that's just, you don't needto be overtly sexual.
Like I was doing groceriesyesterday and some dude, I was
like I think they were unhoused,but they were like chilling in
front of one of the apartmentsthat I deliver at and they were

(01:29:08):
like talking to me.
I was being nice, so I'mloading groceries, Right, and I
had like a dress on and I havelike a scar, you know, on my
chest and like down here, andone of the guys was like oh, do
you like burn yourself orsomething?

Speaker 4 (01:29:26):
Oh, he was staring.

Speaker 1 (01:29:27):
What are you talking about?

Speaker 3 (01:29:28):
He's like right here and I'm like so you're over here
just staring at my titties like, yeah, and I'm just wearing
like a sundress come on.
You know what I mean like we'rejust wearing a sundress,
minding my fucking business, andI'm just like, bro, like she's
probably concerned aboutconcerns.

Speaker 1 (01:29:48):
Do you need a bandaid for that?
Sir, you can't help me.
I see it a completely differentway.

Speaker 2 (01:29:54):
I'm just like, I'm just like what was his name?

Speaker 3 (01:30:01):
random ass man on the street.
Random ass man on the streethow?

Speaker 1 (01:30:04):
are you feeling any follow up questions?

Speaker 2 (01:30:08):
yeah, I did have a follow-up question, or you want
me to take it to the roundup?
Yeah, keep going for it.
All your listeners are going tothink I'm a total bitch.

Speaker 1 (01:30:15):
No actually, yeah, I'm open to having you as well
as our other guests having youon again.

Speaker 4 (01:30:21):
Oh, okay, we can take it into a totally different
direction.

Speaker 1 (01:30:23):
I love that.
I feel like we don't want apigeonhole or yes, there's just
so many facets to it exactly andwe're just trying to give a
brief overview.
Yeah, and, and, and have ourshow along the way you remember,
I'll let you shoot it off.

Speaker 2 (01:30:35):
Yeah, I see uh rainbow flags around here.
Yeah, we are in long beach.
Yes, there is a huge lbgtqcommunity out here.
I grew up out here.
There's a big parade.

Speaker 4 (01:30:45):
Yeah everybody here is pretty chill, you know um,
there's not too, much much hate,hate crimes or anything like
that.

Speaker 3 (01:30:52):
I mean, there's definitely crime, but maybe not
hate crimes, but there's crime,right yeah, you know what I'm
saying it's a big city.

Speaker 2 (01:30:59):
Yeah, you know how are.
Are you using that to youradvantage out here?
Are you bisexual, are you?
I'm pansexual, okay, you'repansexual.

Speaker 3 (01:31:14):
So who like?
Does that mean, you like pans?
No, pansexual is like spicybisexual yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:31:20):
Oh shit, Spicy bisexual.

Speaker 3 (01:31:23):
I like people Like.

Speaker 1 (01:31:24):
I'm open.

Speaker 3 (01:31:25):
I'm definitely more heteroromantic, meaning I'm more
romantically attracted to men,um, but I'm sexually attracted
to men.
Women um trans women, trans men, gender non-conforming,
non-binary people, um I, I I canbe sexually attracted to a
spectrum of people, um, but I'mmore hetero romantic.

(01:31:46):
I've dated women, um, but thatwas more like when I was a
little bit younger, is when Iwas actually dating a few women,
um, but I'm also veryintimidated by women wrote like
sexually like I will never go upto a woman and talk to her.

Speaker 1 (01:32:01):
Okay, you have to come up and talk to me.

Speaker 3 (01:32:04):
You have to come up and talk to me, cause I'm just
like dudes.

Speaker 4 (01:32:07):
I'd be like hey, you have to come up and talk to me,
because I'm just like dudes.
I'd be like hey, you come here.
Yeah, you know women, I'm likehi, I like peas.
I turned into a fucking gooberyou know what?

Speaker 3 (01:32:17):
I mean, um, so yeah, and I, you know, I go to the
lesbian bars out here and stufflike that with my friends and
everything, and like I have nointention of going up to anybody
like if someone comes up to mecool jam, cool story, but I I
will not approach like Iremember, when I first moved out
here, we went to like theskating rink over here and I saw

(01:32:39):
this one depot.
No, it's called uh pigeonsroller rink it's like over by,
uh, it's at second and pch likethat mall down there, um.
So it's like a kind of indoor,outdoor like skating rink, but
we were there for likesomebody's birthday, I think,
and I saw this chick and we keptlike meeting eyes and like
looking at each other and I'mlike oh she's really fucking
cute and I'm like she kept likesmiling at me and I'm like, oh,

(01:33:00):
she's smiling at me, but I'mlike I'm not gonna go up and
talk to her like and for asecond I was like, well, maybe I
can just go out to her and liketell her like, oh, I really
like your hair, because she hadlike really pretty curly hair.
And I was like and I almost didit, but then I bitched out,
couldn't do it and I couldn't doit oh, we gotta add that on to
the life things that you got toget that tenacity towards the
women?

Speaker 2 (01:33:19):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:33:20):
I just and because the thing is like I said, I'm
more romantically attracted tomen and I'm at a point in my
life where I am kind of lookingfor a life partner.
If that should have like I'mnot actively seeking it, but if
that should happen in my life, Idon't want to be a fuck boy.
So I don't want to just be outhere fucking women, fucking
bitches you know what I mean andbe like that fuck boy does body

(01:33:41):
count matter?
I don't give a damn body countdoes not matter no, because
mine's very high, so no, bodycan't, doesn't matter, cause how
are you going to know?

Speaker 2 (01:33:52):
Honesty.

Speaker 3 (01:33:53):
I don't ask people those kinds of questions, cause
it's none of my business.

Speaker 2 (01:33:56):
When you're asked, do you give an honest answer.
Yeah, oh, okay, okay yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:34:00):
But it's none of my business.
I don't.
I don't think it matters howmany people you slept with.
I just think that's like slutshaming territory, cause I don't
, I don't, I don't, I don't seewhy people find that important.

Speaker 2 (01:34:20):
How do you feel about doing a sexual style of art
Like the?

Speaker 4 (01:34:23):
I want to do it.
Okay, I really want to get intothat shit.

Speaker 3 (01:34:27):
It's so dope.

Speaker 1 (01:34:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:34:29):
It is so dope Like.
I've seen some great like.
There's this one dude, danYakovlev or something like that.
I think he's like Russian.

Speaker 4 (01:34:38):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (01:34:39):
Bro, he did some crazy-ass tattoo of this chick
sucking a dick.
It was the most realistic shiton earth and I like and people
in the comment section like thisis fucking, why would you put
this on your body?
I'm like, can we not appreciatethe artistry, though?
Can we not appreciate how onpoint and dope this looks like?

(01:35:00):
I would love to do like I kindof have, like I actually put out
like a like an erotic flashpage recently for like
valentine's day.
It wasn't like too crazy.
It was like a paddle and thenlike some handcuffs and like um
a stiletto and some booty cheeksum, and like a vibrator, um.
But I would love to do likesexual, like more sexually

(01:35:22):
influenced tattoos, but it'slike a certain not everybody
wants to get that.
It's very nuanced.
It's very certain group ofpeople that would like to get
that.
It's very nuanced.
It's very certain group ofpeople that would like to get
something like that so thethighs, y'all put them on the
thighs.

Speaker 2 (01:35:36):
Yeah, that's where you put that stuff, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:35:38):
um, so I I've been playing with the idea of putting
out like more erotic forwardflash.
I just haven't had time becauseI've been so busy, but I
definitely want to put out somebecause I there's another artist
who only O'Leary, only O'Leary.
She does a lot of eroticartwork.
That's like a lot of what shedoes and it's so dope, like I, I

(01:35:59):
really like it.
It's really dope, dope art.

Speaker 2 (01:36:02):
I was looking at your sleeve, since we're battling on
sleeves, Guys.
We are battling on sleeves I.
We're battling on sleeves, Guys.
We are battling on sleeves.
I don't know if she knows it,but I'm like probably the most
competitive motherfucker, andevery time that comes back from
a session I'm like, let me see.

Speaker 4 (01:36:17):
It's like OK, I'll dissect it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:19):
So we are battling, we will send both sleeves, leg
sleeves, and you guys can decidewhich ones you like.
We were thinking about doing alittle bit of a poll, just a fun
one.
We both are accomplished and wefeel very grounded in our art,
so it doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 (01:36:36):
You know exactly yeah .

Speaker 2 (01:36:37):
But we'll post most of these sleeves and you guys
can go on there and you knowcomment.
Tell us what you guys likeabout it.
Tell us what you hate aboutthem.

Speaker 3 (01:36:44):
You know, go ahead and talk about it a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:36:47):
Um, it's been fun.
Hell, yeah, I'm competing withyou.
Um, zach is a good one tocompete with too sometimes.
Uh, we both face some of thesame struggles going into the
tattoo exactly zach's skinsometimes does not take color or
it's very hard to red sometimesright like that's not anymore,
though not anymore, I and I toldyou, I told you that one of the
last times I tattooed you, I'mlike what have you been doing

(01:37:09):
different?

Speaker 3 (01:37:09):
Because it's not as red as it has been in the past.

Speaker 1 (01:37:13):
For everybody out there pre-workout, yeah,
Pre-workout.
Slow down on the.
If you're going to go to atattoo session, don't be pumping
yourself up full of fuckingcaffeine.
I sometimes still fall in thehabit of working out before
getting tattooed.

Speaker 3 (01:37:23):
Last time you did that, yeah, did that.
Yeah, I could tell.
And she's, yeah, my leg,because your leg was switching
like his muscle.
She's like you're, she's likeit's fucking, it's involuntary
yeah, she's like, but it wasn'taffecting my work because it was
twitching above where I wastattooing.

Speaker 1 (01:37:41):
But I was like this motherfucker people getting
tattooed out there just keepthat shit in mind yeah, and
listen, listen, listen to yourfucking artists, no matter who
they are.

Speaker 2 (01:37:48):
Yeah, yeah, I used to send nuggets your way, like yo,
turn your machine down Exactly,or that's like oh, I like that
color she's using over here.
Da da, da, da da, so that'sbeen fun.

Speaker 3 (01:37:59):
Oh, yeah, that's been fun, most definitely.

Speaker 2 (01:38:11):
I'm glad being the middleman me too hard either.

Speaker 3 (01:38:12):
It was easy.
I was just a girl with thepunches, yeah we want 10 of that
.

Speaker 2 (01:38:14):
He sits like a fucking champ, shows up on time.

Speaker 3 (01:38:15):
Yeah, shows up on time takes care of the tattoo
it's a therapy for me.
It really is yeah, well, andyou talk about that like you
know, like how do you like forpeople who want to know, like
how is that therapeutic for you?

Speaker 1 (01:38:28):
as, especially more recently, uh, where I've
developed some, some medicalissues.
Uh, I got neuropathy real badin my legs, so in some spots of
my legs I don't even feel thefucking tattoo really be
completely honest.
Yeah, and so, because it numbsout yeah uh, my leg will fall
asleep yeah, and that fallasleep.
I'll have that fall asleepfeeling for hours holy shit,

(01:38:50):
like Like the pins and needlesAll the way down the toes, and I
haven't really talked aboutthat that much, but yeah, so
tattooing my legs specificallyhas been very therapeutic.

Speaker 3 (01:39:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:39:02):
They're big areas.
They look beautiful.
I've been very happy becauseI'm a big shorts wear and now I
got something to show off.
I got.
I got because I'm a big shortswearer and now I got something
to show off.

Speaker 4 (01:39:11):
I got these badass pieces.
I got to wear short shorts.
People know that Zach likes hisshort shorts and yeah, so
that's been the therapy for me.

Speaker 3 (01:39:21):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:39:21):
How is it going to two different artists?

Speaker 1 (01:39:25):
We touched on that a little bit with our episode with
Nicholas and how many artistshe's seen.
It's a struggle, uh, because Iwanted, I had in my mind what I
wanted from two differentartists and you, you rose the
occasion, she rose the occasion.
I can't, I can't say enoughgood things about these two

(01:39:45):
artists.
Uh, so happy.
Good things about these twoartists, so happy we're all
having this like family meetingright now to sit down, because
it's been really cool seeingtheir, both their different
styles too, seeing the ins andouts, seeing the intricacies,
seeing what they do, seeing howthey prep for the day.
They both have their own littleroutines, they both do their
own things and and yeah, boththese individuals are, have

(01:40:09):
become very good friends,steadfast pieces in my life.
So again, thank you for comingon the show.
Of course, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:40:16):
One of the things I wanted to ask you too, which is,
Excuse me, area of art that I'mfocusing on and trying to add
in my bag of tricks is notAfrican art, but African
Americana art that hits likecultured Mexican art.

Speaker 3 (01:40:36):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:40:39):
It's a struggle.
Yeah, how do you go aboutportraying the modern day
American black man andcatapulting its stories within
the artistic world and tattooinglike how, what?

Speaker 3 (01:40:56):
I mean I've I.
There's this one artist and I'mreally, really upset that I
don't know his name, but he doesa lot of very, uh, african
forward portraits and artworkand, um, I don't you might've
heard of him, I want to say ishis Instagram handles like
create something or somethingcreate.
But he takes it to a differentlevel where he has his clients

(01:41:21):
come in and they do like ameditation before the tattoo, so
, and then he puts like some ofthose like African meditative
practices into his uhpreparation for the session with
the client and he's alwayscreating like these, um, you
know black forward pieces wherehe's turning, whether it's uh

(01:41:41):
taking a portrait of the clientor someone that the client is
close to and turning having wearlike traditional african garb
in the portrait work, or youknow stuff like that.
So you think that's the correctversion of americana maybe not
americana as far as, like I'massuming you probably mean like
more like american traditionalslave traded americans yeah what

(01:42:06):
is know.

Speaker 2 (01:42:08):
I guess I asked this question because we immediately
run back to Africa, exactly asour origin, for artwork and
stuff like that but.
I would like to create our ownorigin.
Exactly I do this work it'scalled a contemporary tribal.
Like I've changed tribal fromAfrican symbolism and I brought
it into a modern touch, that'sone thing that I've tried to do

(01:42:31):
a few times and it worked really, really well, but one of the
things that I really strugglewith is drawing you yeah and me
in today's, you know, uh, intoday's world, and giving it
that legendary aesthetic, thatnostalgic exactly how do we do
that as black artists?
What should we do as blackartists to make our culture?

Speaker 3 (01:42:56):
Kind of stand out, just like the Hispanic culture,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:42:59):
Hispanic culture has black and gray.

Speaker 4 (01:43:00):
They have a style, they have the eagle, they have
Aztec, exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:43:04):
You know, and yes, we have tribal markings and
scarifications, but we all knowthat if you're out in america,
that shit really doesn't yeahfor us and they tell us that
that shit don't yeah, becausebeing, because there's a
difference between being blackin america and being african,
because a lot of africans don'teven fuck with black americans

(01:43:25):
like a lot of them, don't fuckwith us and don't like us.
You know, what I mean, and Ithink that it's hard to grab
hold of roots in a culture wherewe had our culture ripped from
us.
We were literally kidnapped andbrought over here.
So a lot of us don't haveaccess to cultural roots.

(01:43:47):
A lot of us don't have accessto cultural roots.
A lot of us don't have accessto those tribal practices and
tribal artwork and tribal um.
You know that nostalgia that wecan run back to because a lot
of our history was erased youknow what I mean.
So it's like when you havepeople who are like of European

(01:44:08):
descent and they can track downtheir lineage and be like oh,
I'm Lithuanian or I'm, you know,norwegian or Irish or Scottish
or whatever.
They're able to do that, butwe're not.
So I mean now, with theinvention of like 23andMe, it's
a little bit easier to to knowwhat makes up our.
You know ancestry makes up our.

(01:44:35):
You know um ancestry but um, alot of us still don't know, like
you know what tribe ourancestors might have come from.
Or you know um what type ofpractices cultural, religious,
indigenous practices are peopleum practice and what that would
look like if we transformed itinto artwork because it was
taken from us you know, it waserased and we, uh, and a lot of

(01:44:56):
us today too, I feel like, withthe like christian
indoctrination of black people,a lot of black folks don't even
go back there because they likenit to oh that's, that's that
witchcraft shit.

Speaker 4 (01:45:08):
Or that's?
It's that savage shit, it'svoodoo, it's the devil's shit.

Speaker 3 (01:45:14):
Cause I get that as a practicing witch.
I am a practicing witch and Itell everybody, um.
So I have people who were like,oh, so you're a devil worshiper
.
I'm the way that.

(01:45:36):
That's not what I said.
You know what I mean, um,because I do like to.
Um, you know, I have books onhoodoo and voodoo, which those
things were demonized bycolonizers because they didn't
want us to realize our power.
So voodoo and hoodoo are notinherently evil practices.
They are.
You know, african ancestralpractices and practices that you
know come from, like creolefolks, like you go down to

(01:45:57):
louisiana and you learn abouttheir culture and about who do?
and voodoo practices down thereyeah, and it's like it's not
that we were over hereworshiping demonic entities or
things like that.
We, it was our tribalritualistic roots to be honest
it was all herbal and it wasvery herbal and very ceremonial
exactly, and that's what I dolike when people, people have

(01:46:19):
such a misconception of what theword witch means.
You know, back when women werebeing burned at the stake and
stuff, it wasn't necessarilybecause they were quote-unquote
witches.
These were medicine women,these were healers, these were
midwives, these were, you know,women who had, uh, that were
like matriarchs of theircommunity, who were healing
people, and the patriarchy waslike not, nope, nope, we can't

(01:46:40):
have y'all doing none of that.

Speaker 4 (01:46:41):
We're going to burn you, you know, or?

Speaker 3 (01:46:46):
or they would use the excuse.
You know, men would cheat ontheir wives and be like, oh,
it's because she seduced me,because she's a witch, burn her.
You know, and no one was there,was no questioning.

Speaker 4 (01:46:54):
Nobody was like wait, hold on.

Speaker 3 (01:46:55):
Hold up.
Can we ask some questions?
You know there was this, thisone thing that they used to do
to determine if you were a witch.
It was they would throw you inthe river and if you drowned you

(01:47:16):
weren't a witch, but you'refucking drowning, you're dead.
Yeah, damned if you do, damnedif you don't lose the situation.
Right, you know, but you knowit's.
It's the same thing with, youknow, african indigenous
cultures and practices, thatthey were demonized and then
christianity was beaten to uslike no, this is what you're
going to do.
This is what you're going toworship.
This is what you're going to do.
This is what you're going toworship.
This is what you're going tolearn.
This is the right way, this isthe correct way.
You guys are savages and youdon't know what you're talking
about.
So now you have a culture ofblack folks who love them some

(01:47:37):
Jesus and don't take any pridein any of our indigenous culture
.
You know what I mean, andthat's the effect of
colonization and white supremacythey want us to forget.
So when you're trying to turnour cultural experiences into
artwork, it's hard, becausewhere do you even start with

(01:48:00):
that?
Right, you know, and the onlything that I can think is to
just do research you know what Imean Like buy books on African
culture and African statues andAfrican symbolism, um, and
really just strive to bringthose out in your artwork and to
just bring that culture back.

(01:48:20):
And I think it would be hardfor us as a people to try to
like quote unquote bring ourculture back, because a lot of
black folks don't want to and alot of black folks don't care.
And we've become so Westernizedand so Americanized here and
we've been taught that our, ourculture and our ancestry history

(01:48:45):
is ghetto or is um savage or isnot worth remembering.
You know, um, and that thattype of white supremacy runs
deep and it becomes internalizedself-hatred.
Hey, you know what I mean and Ican say that firsthand because
I used to have a lot of internalself-hatred as a black woman.

(01:49:07):
Growing up in a in, you know,predominantly white institutions
and schools and um experiencingracism as a child at a very
young age.
The first time I experiencedracism was in kindergarten.
You know, and um, when peopleare telling you enough times
that you're unworthy because ofthe color of your skin or you

(01:49:28):
can't do certain things becauseof the color of your skin, you
start to believe those thingsand then you internalize that
and then you project it outwardinto your community by being
like ah, here come these niggas.
You know what I mean Like ghettoas hell and doing all this and
that, and then it's like, uh, itbecomes a cycle, you know.
So then that further erasesyour culture, because now you're

(01:49:49):
trying to assimilate, you tryto code switch, you try to do
all this, you know straightenyour hair, because, oh, you
can't have kinky hair, you can't.
Your hair is nappy, it doesn'tlook professional, you know, and

(01:50:09):
it wasn't until fairly recently, probably like the last five
years, where I really came intomy quote unquote blackness and
have been proud to be a blackwoman.
You know what I mean and youknow I'm more activist minded
when it comes to the blackcommunity.
I strive to talk constantly anduse my platform to bring about
social injustice and oppressionwhen it comes to the black
community and let people knowthat systemic racism is still

(01:50:31):
very alive and well in thiscountry, because you have a
country that was founded uponracism.
That is the foundation of thiscountry.
So when people say, oh, getover it, slavery was 400 years
ago or whatever, bro, like itwasn't that long ago that my
grandma was drinking from aseparate water fountain and
she's still alive.
My mom just told me a story,actually last night when we were

(01:50:52):
having dinner, about a cousinof hers that got lynched when
she was a little girl.
Like, my mom is 60.
I'm sorry, mom, for tellingpeople your age, but you know my
mom's like 63 years old, sothat's not that long ago.
Ruby Bridges, who was the firstblack child to integrate into a

(01:51:13):
white school, is like 60something.
This stuff is not that farremoved from us.
So of course that still seepsinto our culture today and our
institutions today.
Slavery didn't go anywhere,it's now just called mass
incarceration.
You know what I mean and thisis legal now.
You know what I mean and it'sjust legal now.

(01:51:35):
So you know it's.
It's a struggle to sometimes, uh, you know, embrace your culture
when you don't even really knowwhat your culture is, because
you've been fed a certain way tolook at what your culture is
and a lot of times we're toldthat our culture is too hood,
it's too it's, it's unappealing,it's not professional, it's.
But then you know, for example,you have uh, people who want to

(01:52:00):
wear their natural hair or wearlocks or braids, or you know
Afro, and it's told that that'snot professional, it doesn't
look good, it's ghetto.
But then you have a white womanwho comes and does the same
thing, and now it'srevolutionary and it's and it's
renamed, and now it's okay.
So I think that's one of thosethings where people are like,
well, it's just a hairstyle.

(01:52:20):
I don't see what the big deal is.
How come everybody can't weartheir hair the way they want?
Now I'll be the first one tosay I don't give a damn how
anybody wears their hair, Idon't care.
But you have to understand whysome people are upset, because
that's something that's a partof our culture and we've been
told that it is almostdisgusting in a way, and it's
been demonized when we do it.
But then another racialbackground goes and does it and

(01:52:42):
they're praised for it, theyrename, they take it and rename
it, and now it's cool, and nowthey're monetizing off of it.
So imagine how that feels to betold that your culture ain't
shit and then someone else goesand does it and all of a sudden
it's popping.
So I think you know I reallyencourage black folks to dive

(01:53:09):
back into our culture, you know.
Know, if they can, and toreally dive back into the roots
of our culture and stopdemonizing your own culture
because you've beenindoctrinated to believe that
your culture is evil inherentlyand demonic because you know
it's got roots in hoodoo, voodooand you know just indigenous
ceremonial practices.
You know, um, because, like Isaid, as someone who practices

(01:53:38):
witchcraft and who, um, you know, likes to kind of fall back on
some of these more, uh,indigenous practices that I do,
there's nothing evil about it.
Like I I love positive, positiveplace, like you know what I
mean.
Like I deal with herbs andincense and I like to be out in
nature and I do candle workingsand I meditate and I do yoga and

(01:53:59):
I drink tea and like I'm very,I have a very positive mindset,
you know, for the most part, andI try to spread that outwards,
to people around me, um, andjust really get back to, like,
the heart of being human.
You know what I mean and what itmeans to be a human being and
to also try to connect withsomething higher than yourself,
like, for me, that's theuniverse, or sometimes I call it

(01:54:21):
spirit, um, but I don't thinktrying to connect with a higher
power and reconnect withyourself will ever be evil or
demonic.
You know what I mean, andthat's not to say that some
people don't hex people or dofucked up shit, but like there's
Christians that do fucked upshit, there's Catholics that do
fucked up shit, like you knowwhat I'm saying like we don't
demonize the whole of them, youknow, because a few of them are

(01:54:44):
doing fucked up shit.
As long as you're a person, itshouldn't matter who or what you
worship.
You know what I'm saying as longas you're happy and what you're
doing makes you happy andyou're not pushing it on other
people and telling people thatthey're wrong because they're
not worshiping the same way asyou.
Um, I don't give a damn if youworship a teacup.
You think revolves around theearth.
Are you happy?

Speaker 4 (01:55:04):
Cool, Like, tell me about the teacup you know, I
mean I want to learn more aboutthe teacup, you know um, so I
think that you know a lot ofthings.

Speaker 3 (01:55:14):
Just get very convoluted because again our
history has been erased andwe're not being told our proper
history.
You know, it's been gatekeptfrom us.

Speaker 2 (01:55:22):
Essentially, that's my challenge yeah for you yeah I
want to see black artists doingmore.

Speaker 3 (01:55:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:55:30):
Original.

Speaker 3 (01:55:31):
Exactly Black art, yeah, for the culture, exactly
With a nostalgic feel.

Speaker 4 (01:55:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:55:35):
Just like Hispanic artists do.
Yeah, their stuff Exactly.
Just like white boys do theirstuff.
Exactly but not necessarilywith this hard African origin.
Exactly Because there's a wholenother realm that has been
untapped.

Speaker 3 (01:55:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:55:49):
You know it's been untapped, so oh yeah.
And I'm anxious to see yeah,you got the gangster culture,
the.

Speaker 4 (01:55:54):
Nipsey's and all of that stuff.
Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:55:58):
I mean that's, that's been done.
You know not everybody's doingthat yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:56:15):
Everybody's done the Tupac portraits, all that stuff,
you know, and I've done likesome actually pretty dope pieces
on my brother that are morelike black forward.
Like I did a cool picture of alike African woman but her Afro
was made of daisies, you know,and it's got like a space
background and stuff like thatand you can tell she's black
women.
She had black features and it'ssupposed to be an Afro, you
know.
And then I even did one that Iwon an award for, a couple of
awards for in El Paso.
It was like a black Africanwoman with an Afro but her Afro
is galaxy.

Speaker 2 (01:56:33):
So Afro futurism, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:56:36):
Oh, shit, yes, I follow.

Speaker 1 (01:56:40):
Yeah, I follow, yeah, so doing stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (01:56:43):
you know what I mean, and I've tried to do a lot more
black forward flash.
You, I've tried to do a lotmore black forward flash.
You know what I mean, that Iput out and stuff like that.
So I would like to tap moreinto that, for sure, and tattoo
more of our people.

Speaker 2 (01:56:57):
It's important that we do that because we, you know,
like I said, thank you forbeing on here.
You are the other balance onthat scale with me, you know,
with all of the black ink crew.

Speaker 1 (01:57:07):
You know what I'm saying Wait a second, we're with
me, you know with all of theblack ink crew.
You know Sarah Wayne is downhere like we're all messing shit
too cool.

Speaker 4 (01:57:14):
So like I appreciate, that information and I just
wanted to get your perspectivefrom one artist to another on
how to develop and what youthink I should.

Speaker 2 (01:57:22):
you know how I should attack it?

Speaker 3 (01:57:24):
So thank you for that .
Exactly, Of course.
Thanks for asking I appreciatethat.

Speaker 1 (01:57:27):
What was the quote you had come up with to round
this out?
Because I like it.
It was pretty good.
Don't be a dick.

Speaker 3 (01:57:33):
That's like my motto in life Don't be a dick, be kind
.
You never know what people aregoing through, and I think that
the world lacks a lot of empathyright now and it's sad, um.
And it's sad, um, because weare literally all on this
fucking floating rock together,in these fucking meat sacks that

(01:57:55):
we walk around in, and we'reall just trying to fucking live
our best lives and get by, andnobody is above anybody, um, and
we should just strive to treatour fellow human beings better.
You know, you really never know.
You know what, what someone'sgoing through.

(01:58:19):
Man Like someone might behaving a shitty, fucked up ass
day and then you go and make itfucking worse Cause you just
want to be a dick.
Like I do.

Speaker 4 (01:58:28):
Like I was having a good day yesterday, somebody did
that to me.
Why are you choosing?
You could have chose to go twoways with it.

Speaker 2 (01:58:36):
I did nothing to you Exactly, and we're here, exactly
All right.

Speaker 3 (01:58:40):
And oftentimes it's because those people are
miserable within themselves.
Yeah because and that's what Isay, that's why I tell most
people is that most people whoare dicks and assholes to people
because they don't likethemselves, they're unhappy in
their fucking life and they wantto share their misery with
everybody misery loves companyand you know I used to be a dick

(01:59:01):
.
I used to be very fucking angry.
I was angry at the world, youknow.
Um, I was very cynical and justpessimistic and shit.
For a long time like, I don'tuse facebook no more, but every
time, every now and then, I hopon there and my little memories
come up with some little rantsand shit.
I used to go and I'm like damnbitch, she was mad as hell yeah,
oh my god, he was angry and youknow there are still things

(01:59:22):
that I'm angry about today, likeinjustices, but that's you know
.
That's things that you want tobe angry about.
You know, um, back in the day,I was angry about stupid shit
like it reminds me of when katwilliams was like you came
banging on bacon I would just bemad at the dumbest shit you
know what I mean, um, so I'venoticed such a just

(01:59:47):
transformation in my life bychoosing to just have a more
positive like aura about myselfand how that transfers outward
into the people around me.
Like I'll be walking down thestreet and just be in a good ass
mood and someone's like man, Icould feel your energy from over
here, like I, like that, youknow what I mean.

(02:00:07):
And then hopefully they takethat energy and they pass it on
to somebody else and they passit on to somebody else and it's
just like a, a, a energeticpositivity chain.
You know, um, but I just Ialways strive to be kind to
people because you could reallymake or break somebody's day,
man, you know whether it's astranger or somebody that you're
close to.

(02:00:27):
Um, and if you had the choice,why not choose to make it better
?
Like I, I worked with anotherum nonprofit, uh it's I'm an
ambassador for and we focus onum, suicide and depression and
mental health awareness.
So I go out and I do speakingevents and um, you know host Q

(02:00:49):
and A's and stuff like that, um,and our thing, our focus, is
mental health and suicide, and Ialways usually end with be kind
.
I don't say don't be a dick,because you know it's
professional stuff.
So, um, in my everyday lifeit's don't be a dick.
In my professional, you knowit's be kind, um, because you

(02:01:11):
know mental health, man, it's.
It's a very real struggle formost people in this country,
whether it's depression, anxiety, ptsd, um, schizophrenia, like
you know, all kinds of mentalailments that people have more
often than not.
Most people are dealing withthat shit, especially after
COVID.
Covid really mentally did anumber on a lot of people, um,

(02:01:31):
so kindness to strangers and topeople you know goes a long,
long, long way, man, you know.
So, just, you know if you canchoose kindness or choose to be
an asshole, choose kindness, man, like I get that people have
bad days and shit, like I'm notimmune from bad days, but you
don't have to put that on otherpeople unnecessarily, especially

(02:01:53):
if they didn't do anything toyou.
Um, and you know I think morepeople should utilize therapy if
they can afford it.
I get that it's not affordableto everybody, um, but I think
the world would benefit if morepeople utilize therapy if they
can afford it.

Speaker 2 (02:02:07):
Yeah, I do.
I think those are all reallygood things.
Yeah, yeah, they're all reallygood things.
Empathy she was choosingempathy.

Speaker 3 (02:02:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:02:18):
Over frustration.

Speaker 3 (02:02:19):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (02:02:20):
Just man guys, it is not that fucking hard.
It's not you know it's harderto be rude and to work your head
around some fucking insult ofwhy you hate this person who's
absolutely struggling.
You know when you're strugglingI know sometimes you wish like,
damn, like, why me?
Yeah you know, is anybody gonnalook out for me?

Speaker 3 (02:02:43):
like where's my little piece, you know?

Speaker 4 (02:02:44):
sometimes you can be that piece.

Speaker 2 (02:02:46):
guys.
That's exactly what she'stalking about, and from B to Z,
guys.
Zach today provided your guestsand wow, what an amazing guest
with a great point of views.

Speaker 1 (02:02:58):
We do have a little gift for you.
We're trying to make a habit ofgiving the gifts on air so we
get their reaction.
We started last episode and youactually got the first wrap
gift Right, and that's notbecause you're last episode, I
love gifts and you actually gotthe first wrap gift Right.
And that's not because you're alady.

Speaker 4 (02:03:11):
I'll take that I'll take that, yeah, I'll take that
Right.

Speaker 1 (02:03:17):
Oh, you even got me the zero sugar one.
You're a snacker, I know youtalk about the snacks, providing
snacks, shut up.

Speaker 3 (02:03:28):
You did not, so I want to, trying to not do the
sugar thing.

Speaker 1 (02:03:33):
But yeah, we appreciate you coming.
Any any last minute shout outsyes, please.

Speaker 3 (02:03:37):
Um, I want to definitely give a shout out to
my little brother, nice, becausethat man is literally my heart
and fucking soul dude, like heof my what's his name?

Speaker 2 (02:03:50):
john mcknight okay, a little baby brother.

Speaker 3 (02:03:53):
I don't know if you're watching on live or not,
but zach's not my brother, andmy brother is literally one of
the best people on earth, manhe's just he's been such a
support system for me, like he'salways in my corner.
He's always like making surethat I'm like striving to do my

(02:04:14):
best, like he's my biggestcheerleader for sure.
Like I.
I would literally die for him,like I would take a bullet for
him, with no questions asked,not even a second thought.
Um, he is my best friend whenpeople are like oh, who's your
best friend?
My brother my brother is myliteral best friend on this
earth.
You know he was there for methrough my alcoholism, through
my sobriety.

(02:04:34):
You know he's he's one of thepeople that pushes me to do
outside of the box shit when itcomes to tattooing.
Like he'll be like you shouldtattoo this, you should do this,
and I'm like I don't know ifI'd be able to do that.
He's like bro, I don't want tohear none of that.
I can't do it.
He's like he's like you're abad-ass tattoo artist.

(02:05:05):
He's like bro.
Sometimes I think you don startrealizing how much of a badass
you are.
Dude like he like.
If it wasn't for him dude likethat, uh, afro woman with the
galaxy afro I was talking about.
I did that on him at thatconvention.
He's the one who convinced meto even enter into the
competition because I was like,I'm just happy to be here, guys
just happy to be here.

(02:05:26):
He's like no, you need to enterthis and I was like bro, do you
see what kind of artists arehere?
Like there's no way I'm winninganything.
And they called my name twiceone for best today and then one
for like first prize color orwhatever and I was like I never
looked at you like if it wasn'tfor him, I would have never done

(02:05:46):
anything like that.
So it's like he's really pushedme to really big up myself and
just realize that I am talented.
Like so I just I love mybrother so much, like I love you
, you will love you.

Speaker 1 (02:06:06):
Hey, give her a follow too.
It's at Inc Girl six, six, 666,that's your page.
And then the at black moonlilith tattoo studio yeah, just
tattoo, tattoo for uh for herher studio page.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no thanks.
Thanks for coming on thank youguys.

Speaker 4 (02:06:25):
Yeah, shout out to little bro.
Yes, little brother, all have agood one.

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