February 14, 2025 • 53 mins
Join Kevin Childs and Derek Billingsley, two seasoned tattoo artists with over 30 years of combined experience, as they share their captivating journeys in the ever-evolving world of tattoo artistry on the B2Z Podcast. We celebrate personal milestones and discuss the profound impact of family life on their creative endeavors. Discover the allure of Southern California's vibrant tattoo scene through Derek's eyes, where the perfect motorcycle weather and spirited traditional tattoo culture bring a unique charm to Orange County's bustling studios like Newport Tattoo and HB Tattoo.
Our conversation takes a deeper turn as we explore the resilience and growth born from personal and professional challenges. From the struggle of losing homes to the triumph of rebuilding client bases, Kevin and Derek reveal the lessons learned through adversity and the strength it takes to thrive in the tattoo industry. We emphasize the importance of learning from everyone, no matter their status, and the humility required to embrace innovation and creativity. Social media's transformative role in the industry also comes under the spotlight, as platforms like Instagram reshape client attraction and studio dynamics.
Finally, delve into the creative processes that define these artists' unique styles—whether it's spontaneous bursts of creativity or meticulously planned masterpieces. We reflect on the balance between traditional craftsmanship and modern innovation, and the passion that fuels their art despite the industry's commercialization. The episode wraps with stories of personal inspiration and triumphs, promising more engaging content in part two. Stay tuned for further insights into the dynamic and fulfilling world of tattoo artistry.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
All right, hello, hello, hello.
This is Zach Bautista with theB2Z Podcast.
I'm here with my co-host, asalways, mr Brandon May.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello everybody.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
And two really, really cool kick-ass guests.
Cool, I got Kevin Childs we'reactually here at his home right
now and Derek Billingsley.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
What's up, guys?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Two heavy hitters man .
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Season 2.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Just began.
We're bringing in some heavyhitters.
I wanted to start off thisepisode by saying
Congratulations on your baby.
Zach is now a father.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
This is a new episode .
Speaker 2 (00:44):
He's probably tired as hell you know he ain't slept,
we were just talking about allkinds of shit outside I
appreciate that guys he just hada little boy, um, and I'm not
gonna give names and all thatstuff, just because that's his
business.
But yeah congratulations to himyes, sir, I appreciate you guys
uh, these fellows we have arecoming on right now our fathers
(01:05):
too.
Um, you know, I only bringpeople on that I respect.
Uh, these guys are definitelypeople that I respect in the
tattoo industry.
Uh, their work speaks foritself.
Please go check them out ontheir instagrams, um, and you
guys can.
You can be, you could be thejudge of that, but I think
they're fire.
Um, thanks, man.
Yeah, yeah, man.
Um, both very different styles,but could be called traditional
(01:28):
artists, which is interesting,one of the things I enjoy the
most.
Um, they've had a long,illustrious careers.
Um, traveled around the world,work with some of the heavy
hitters, so what the informationyou guys are getting today is
not something that you wouldoften get.
So this is a treat.
Here you go.
You know what I mean.
B to z uh, kevin childs,derrick billingsley, uh, let's
(01:50):
start.
Um, and this is the firstinterview with two people.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
So yeah, this is a big moment for us too, yeah it's
probably a different dynamic,huh yeah glad, you guys.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, because you know I was thinking oh, you know
, do I do individually based.
So I was like, yeah, but wecould bring them on separately
after that.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
So I want to speak as a whole.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
How long have you guys been tattooing?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
16 years now 16 years .
Speaker 4 (02:19):
I just counted it 17.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
17 years now.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
I've been doing it longer than I haven't been
actually.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
All in Southern California, nah.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
It's been all over the country at this point.
Living-wise, I've tattooed allover the world at this point,
but I've been in SouthernCalifornia since 2016.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, that's one of the things I thought was cool.
He'll be traveling around.
He's been all over the place.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
What was your favorite spot, derek, here?
Orange County specifically.
That's where I moved to, livedon Huntington Beach for a while.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
That's crazy.
Orange County would be like thespot out of all the spots.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yeah, man, when you ride motorcycles and you come
out here and do nice weatheryear-round, I don't have to
shelf my bike for whateverperiod of time.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Man.
It's just a place fortraditional man, like if you go
to orange county.
That's traditional tattooing.
I think you know what I meanabove everything, like man.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Every other move was like all right, job opportunity,
cool, let's move there, let'sdo this, let's step in my career
in the right direction.
This was like I want to spendmoney that I've worked my ass
off for all these years, let'sgo have fun.
So me and my actually had aroommate.
I lived in nashville beforehere and, uh, he was in the
music industry as a tour managerand stuff.
So we just so happened I wasout in Orange County city of
(03:28):
Orange guest spotting.
This dude had just got offWarped Tour so he was out here
too.
At the same time we were luckyenough to have two friends give
us bikes to ride.
He was already my roommate inNashville and we just looked at
each other on the ride and we'relike, hey, dog, are we moving
here or what?
Yeah, and we're like, hey, dog,are we moving here or what?
But we had just got the house,so it's like we already knew, I
think six months into the leasewe're like, hey, after this six
months we're outro, we're moving.
So I had somebody to split thebills and do all the shit and
(03:50):
move out here and it was justmade seamless.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
I think that's the fucked up thing about California
.
Man, honestly, you know what I?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
mean I do the same thing you do that's exactly what
I did too.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
I went right down orange county.
After I was down there forseven years tattooing too.
I mean, fuck, who doesn't wantto live by the beach dude?
You know what I mean.
And the weather, and at thattime too, before before being a
dad man, orange county's fun,it's party man.
It's a good time, especiallytattooing.
What shops were you at?
So I was at Newport Tattoo andthen every once in a while I'd
sit at HB Tattoo Hang out withthose guys.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
That was the original Newport, the original one down
on the peninsula.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because thatone I don't even know where that
one is it's on the peninsula.
Yeah, yeah, I like.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Huntington.
That shop was really cool,though, man.
I mean, dude, it's been thereforever and then walk-in
base-wise because everyone'scoming in there from you know,
vacationing, and shit, dude, itwas slammed all the time.
I mean, that's how you learn totattoo faster, dude.
It was just little quick shit.
You get them in, get them out.
It was vacation tattooing, oris it vacation vibe tattooing
(05:09):
with regulars, vacation vibe?
I mean, that was the otherthing too.
That was hard to buildclientele, because a lot of
people weren't staying, theywere just coming in getting
little souvenirs and taking off.
You know what I mean.
But uh, yeah, little shit likethat all day long.
You have more, you can bang outmore money you made.
So I dug it, man.
The vibe was fun.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I had a good time down there yeah, I fucking, I
worked in this place.
Saint thomas compass rose at alanding shop, yeah I went down
there he was that he had firedeverybody in the shop.
He came, everybody was fuckingaround and he fired everybody on
a fucking island probably oneof the dumbest things you can
fucking do.
He's in the middle of the ocean.
He ain't gonna find no artists,you know, so he's like yeah so
(05:41):
I go down there and I startworking.
First week there was like ahurricane.
The thermofax goes out, soeverything is hand stenciled.
But the cruise ships are comingin and everybody's getting
these little tattoos and Ithought it was the stupidest
fucking thing in the world.
Just because it's like man, youcan't even get in the water.
Now you fucked.
They were getting in the water,they're still going.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Hey dude, I was telling them they could.
They're all.
Can I go in there?
I'm like fuck it, go ahead.
You'll be fine, I'm nottouching it up, you'll be fine.
You'll be fine I was like noman.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
this doesn't make sense to me, but OCE is
definitely one of the hearts oftattooing out here.
They used to have, they havewhat was it?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Muse Inc out there too.
Yeah, we did that a few years,yeah, and that was their
convention.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
They need to do something like that.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah, Well, they have that.
And then the big one for realtattooing was Ink and Iron.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, I think that's the one I'm talking about At the
Queen Mary Long Beach.
Ink and Iron was at the QueenMary, so that's not the one Muse
Inc is Costa Mesa, theFairgrounds yeah, that one's
cool too.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
More of a local show, right, Mostly local artists.
Ink and Iron was the who's whoof Southern California, right.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Well, I don't know man, I mean Muse Inc for a while
was taking a shot.
Dude, they had a good lineupfor a while, man.
There were some heavy guys thatwere going in and out of there
and then take it over.
They had, like, I mean, thepool you had with the bands that
were coming through there andshit, it was out of control man
and the cars kind of put alittle weird thing with it,
because it became more aboutpeople that didn't care about
the tattoos they're like oh I'mgonna go see blink or this or
(07:12):
that, which is cool, but I didthe same thing.
This is about tattooing to me.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
You know I'm here to make money and if not me.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
I was like I'm taking a break because you're a local.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
I flying in.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I'm paying for a hotel.
I'm paying for the booth.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
I'm not here to fucking bump elbows.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I got bills.
I'm trying to you got tobalance it out first Right and
then party.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
That's the good thing .
With Instagram Cracking off,it's like cool, you can do these
events.
Boom, you want to bookappointments?
Sick.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Your trip's.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
I have never flown to a convention.
The furthest one I've gone tois I don't know which one.
As far as Reno and Sacramento,it's probably about the same
distance.
Yeah, it was cool, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I like getting out of my town and seeing everybody
else.
Was that the Cap City one?
It was City of Trees,sacramento, yep, city of Trees
Do you still like doingconventions?
Speaker 4 (08:02):
I do.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I like conventions.
Yeah, just because, like Idon't like okay.
So I like the vibe ofconvention.
I like wearing my fresh-assclothes.
Hold up, we're talking aboutshit.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
You feel like I like to wear my fresh-ass clothes.
I came up to the booth.
I saw you.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Having my table laid out.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
He had a presence for a minute.
I walked up.
You know what I?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
mean, we had OnlyFans models in the shed.
I had my homies in theredrinking and we had bottles,
dave's doing yay next to me.
It was a good time.
You know what?
Speaker 4 (08:32):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
It was a good time.
That part I like.
I feel like there's always thisrival, competition type, ego
overtone with any conventionthat I don't like because you
can.
You can meet somebody outsideof a convention.
They'll be like oh, what's up,buddy, you know, and you see
them at the convention andthey're fucking cool guys,
(08:54):
because they got creases intheir shirt.
That day.
You know what I mean, and it'sjust like I don't fuck with that
bro like yeah, yeah that atthat point you're a bitch to me
for sure you know what I mean ifI see you like and I see you're
supposed to speak and like,like bro you a bitch to me, you
know okay, that's a lot of thethe convention circuit.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
It varies within styles of conventions yeah when
it's invite, only when it's, uh,just traditional tattoos.
When it's black and gray,there's a different vibe, for
sure there's.
There's cool guy, traditionaldudes that most of the dudes who
actually do really goodtraditional don't fuck with.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Like people put them on this pedestal and most dudes
are like.
Those dudes are lame.
Yeah, no, because the real onesare usually cool.
We're friends with whoever, andthat's what I was getting ready
to say.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Like put on the other end of the spectrum when
somebody's cool as fuck.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Oh, dude yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
And they give you a print and they're like it's
tight too, like I met cartoon,yeah, I met cartoon.
I was like yo look at my shit.
You know, like that happens ata convention.
Yeah, it creates opportunity.
I don't.
It's not that I want to be inthere, because what I was losing
my house, losing my shit wealready paid for it, trying to
get shirts and we're about tomake the move to our shop at the
same time.
I remember that and that's why Ihad, it was the first and then
I told him the first and itshould have been like the 12th
(10:08):
low key just because I neededtime to kind of calm down after.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
So I was like fuck when I was in there.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
It's a whirlwind, yeah, but it all worked out and
sometimes I feel like the morepressure you put on yourself,
the better man it makes you,because you like you go through
things rather than just ohdefinitely you know the the
shallow end forever definitelythose are the days you grow
right like you don't grow wheneverything's good, like I talked
to you about, like hitting thegym and stuff right it's easy to
(10:35):
go to the gym.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
When you're motivated , I feel good.
Boom, boom got my pre-workout,I'm ready to go.
I ate my meal, I'm doing good.
It's the days when you wake uplike motherfucker I do not want
to get out of bed, that's right.
You go to the gym.
That's the day you feel likeyou got the most growth and it's
the same thing with everythingin life.
It's like cool, this really badthing happens, it's not.
Don't look at it and be like,oh, woe is me.
It's like, man, that thinghappened for you, not to you.
You know what I mean.
(10:58):
There's a big differencebetween the two.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
When you look at it like man, I'm gonna be strong,
and it just shows you what youcan take and what you're capable
of a hundred percent man.
I mean, I've been through thatsituation back when I mean, fuck
dude, I've walked away from ashop.
I had a relationship fall apart.
Dude, I went from losing, likeyou know, being in this big
house to go into like a 400square foot little place with my
daughter.
Man, kick and just kick myselfin the ass and, uh, you start to
(11:20):
build yourself back up.
Do you realize you?
You're like, dude, that shitain't shit, all that shit's just
shit.
And you can all build it up andwork harder.
Fuck, dude, it ain't going tostop you.
You know what I mean?
That builds character, dude.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Let me ask you guys this, circling back to the
convention circuit and then yourguys' growth as artists was
there any kind of mentor orheavy hitter out there that you
really looked up to or you had amemorable event with or taught
you something?
Taught you something differentor different way to look at
things as you, as you were goingthrough your career?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
um, fucking question yeah, I'm sure there's endless
things I could say, because II've always been one with such a
humble mind that I've learnedvaluable things from apprentices
from shop helps, like even waysto make a stencil.
I learned from an apprentice,like, but if you have this ego
about yourself, you're not goingto learn nothing.
So it's hard to say one artistby any means, uh, with that,
(12:13):
though you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Like it's kind of just an accumulation, I think,
of years, of just circlingaround different people and
different styles and the waythey work, and yeah, that's a
big benefit.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Some people that only work in a certain style, like
my mentor, my actual mentor Idon't think he's ever done a
real traditional tattoo hiswhole life.
He could say oh, I do itbecause most people say they can
do it and they do it and you'relike, oh, you can't do it.
You know what I mean.
It's very apparent when dudesdon't do traditional and try to
do it, my mentor never didtraditional Back in the day dude
, he would do a tribal sleeveone day.
The next day he'd be doing ablack and gray realism portrait.
(12:44):
The next day he'd be doing newschool fucking red background.
You know what I mean?
Just everything.
And that's what a tattooer isstill to me to this day, even
though I do mostly what I do.
Fuck, I just did a tribalphoenix the other day.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
I'll just tattoo whatever, as long doing it like
I'm here to make people happylike you know, I can't all just
be girl heads and skulls andshit which I mean it'd be cool
if it was a lot of it is but butyeah, cool it was because it
seems like I do a little bit ofall that shit.
What I do the other day,fucking purple and green clouds,
yeah it goes in.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
It goes in phases, because then you'll get where
you're doing a bunch of coolshit.
Yeah, it's just part of part ofthat which ain't bad.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
I'm a noggin, I'm just saying I do a little bit of
everything, man, it's stillbetter than any other job,
that's true.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Imagine working for a boss, an actual boss.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
No, I haven't done that shit.
I remember the last time Ifilled out an application.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
I remember the last time I filled out an application
.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I think about that shit often.
I think about that shit often.
I'm going to bring it into thatarea, dude, your tattoo, or
fucking, especially with theseguys.
Right, fucking, look at derrick, he's like I'll fuck you up,
(13:53):
get a job.
I'll fuck you up.
You ain't shit.
No, like I think about it allthe time, like, even with their
strong fucking mindsets towardsthe thing, um, there's things
that a father needs to do andthat is bigger than the tattoo
world, and that is to feed theirfamily.
Yep, um, which I get.
Tattooing is in a state nowwhere people are pulling in
part-time jobs, they're jumpingfrom shops, they're moving from
loyalty to gain percentages,they're doing private shops,
(14:19):
they're tattooing from home.
You know what I mean Likepermanently.
Like legends now are likeforget, like I'm gonna get a
studio, or how do you guys feelabout that?
Um, what direction do you thinkit should go in?
Speaker 4 (14:36):
damn, that's a tough question even answer.
What direction do I think itshould go in?
Yeah, I don't even know how, Idon't even know how it could
even change and and I mean, Ifeel like the train has gotten
so derailed, dude, that I don'tthink there's any way to bring
it back.
I don't think, I don't thinkanybody really wants to.
God damn, I don't even know howto answer that dude I tell
(14:58):
people I'm fighting to tattoo.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I fight to tattoo every client that I get.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
I'm fighting for that well, the thing is too, though,
so many people that are pullingout that same motherfucker?
well, I think a lot of that hasto do with I.
I got to bring it back tosocial media.
I think social media is themajor problem with a lot of that
.
As far as you know, peopleopening private studios and shit
like that right, nobody wantsto work for a reputable street
shop anymore.
Um, because a lot of times youdon't need a fucking street shop
(15:27):
to stay busy because you've gotsocial media, you've got
Instagram, I mean.
Right, I mean that's the way Ithink about it, so a lot of
times these guys are like,fucking well, I don't need to
work at a street shop becauseI'm pulling all these clients
off my instagram anyway, so I'mjust going to open this little
studio.
Now.
You know, even up on the loan,we got like how many?
30 private studios, probablyright around the corner.
You know what I mean?
(15:48):
I don't think.
I think, as long as socialmedia it's that accessible
without people just walking in,it's not going to go back to the
way it was.
There's no way.
Yeah, it's not just.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
I guess youtube would be considered a type of social
media right youtube kind of isyeah but there's so much
information on there and it'slike the barrier to entry of
tattooing has gotten so low.
They've demonized people.
Uh, you have to treat people acertain way to teach them.
You can't teach someone who'sgot an ego.
So when you come in, just likethe military, you're gonna get
shit talked to you.
And if I don't talk shit to youand I ignore you, I fucking
(16:18):
hate you, right.
But if I like you and I seepotential and I want you to get
better, I'm gonna talk shit toyou and then you know what that
does is it builds up a level ofhumbleness in you that then you
can learn.
Not only that, if you don'thave that shit, why are you
going to treat anything withrespect if you haven't fought
for it right?
100 fight day in and day out,wearing fucking stupid shit
outside, washing cars, fuckingbeating up random people because
(16:40):
your mentor says swing on thatfool.
Yes, sir, you know what I mean.
If you're not doing that shit,this shit's whatever.
Dude, I don't have a level ofrespect.
Like I was taught, you have totattoo for 10 years before
you're able to teach anybody totattoo.
Yeah, that shit's gone.
I felt like that was openingshops too, One shop will have
five apprentices at a time andhe's too big an asshole to have
(17:01):
a real crew of actual tattooersand all he has is a bunch of
little fucking minions.
They all suck at tattooing, sothe barrier to entry has gotten
so fucking low that I think theonly way that gets corrected is
what we're seeing currently.
Right, everyone can agree theeconomy is fucked and tattooing
is feeling it really hard.
Good tattooers, lifetimetattooers, who we eat, breathe
(17:23):
and sleep with this shit yeah orslower than we've ever been are
we still able to pay our bill?
Speaker 4 (17:27):
yes, thankfully, like we're great is that economy and
going to rid out these is thateconomy, or is that just the
amount of tattooers that arearound here too?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
that's it, that's too many tattooers definitely part
of it, for sure.
But I think what's going tohappen?
Because of the economy, a lotof these people aren't going to
continue to stay afloat.
I know shops that I mean.
What shop was that you were?
I think you were telling me, orsteve someone was telling me a
shop that's been there a longtime in riverside elizabeth
street.
Yeah, are they close, likepossibly closing, like I've
heard other shops at?
Speaker 2 (17:56):
least just because of the the constant change of uh,
everybody to sell.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
They want more money for rent.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Everybody wants money .
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Oh shit, dude they just did that shit to my uncle's
shop down in.
San Diego, lucky yeah sold itright underneath him, dude.
He was like waiting for hislease.
He's like, dude, what's up,what's going on?
And they fucking sold it.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
The only thing that's correct is a weeding out
process, the real ones who havefrom the get-go we've.
I mean, how many years did youprepare for the winter?
Right, as a real tattooer.
It gets slow in the winter, sowhat do you do you stack back a
little coins.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
All these new dudes are like oh my god, it's slow.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
It's like motherfucker, how long you've
been tattooing, yeah well, itgoes back to the old
apprenticeship shit.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
You're saying that's why we stick into it so hard.
You, because we already knowwe've been fucking beat up.
Well, we know how to stickthrough it.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah, I could say I'm salty right now.
I'm salty as fuck right now.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
I know I see it.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
I see you walk into the shop.
I'm like fuck Brandon's on one.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
And for those of you who don't know, I'll give you a
little history.
So when Brandon came to work,you guys all work at the same
shop, at Breakthrough Tattoo.
Yeah, and how long have youguys worked there?
Speaker 4 (19:06):
I've been there about four and a half years now.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
About 2020, I started the longest, right, yeah, I
think so now, yeah, shop's goingon.
It's been there 13, 13 years,yeah, and I'm, besides, the
owner, he's the current longestartist there.
I me and my wife lived inrancho.
I was still was doing thecommute back to orange county
tattooing all the time she waspregnant yeah baby was doing
march.
So february, the month before onmy my let me get my ducks in a
row, let me.
I didn't even know any shops.
I would have moved out hereyears ago, but I didn't know any
legit tattoo shop liketraditional shops in the area
(19:29):
out this way, I only knew orangecounty.
You know what I mean.
So finally, uh, that I meanpush the narrative.
I had to, I had to do some someresearch, popped in a few shops
, feel it out, came into thisshop.
I had knew his name, never methim, just from the orange county
kind of scene.
We kind of know who's who.
You know just part of the sceneis small, as as big as we were
(19:50):
talking about it being.
It is very small of goodtattooers.
You all kind of know each otherusually.
So, yeah, february, I made themove, uh, to break through, so I
haven't even been there thatlong either so where?
Speaker 1 (20:00):
where's, where's the saltiness?
Now, now let's, let's, let'sjump back.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Where's the saltiness yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah Is it hot?
Speaker 4 (20:07):
You guys want me to turn this fan on.
I didn't mean to cut out onthis.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Would you guys want to it?
So he let me know and I'll turnthe fuck around.
All right, keep going.
I didn't mean to cut it off.
Good, kick it to you, okay.
All right, this room gets hot,man.
I'm just telling you why am Isalty?
I'm salty just because I moved.
Um, a lot of my clientele is notcoming there, um, and I feel
the pressure and it's in a timewhen there's not a lot to pull
from.
You know what I mean.
There's not a lot to pull from.
You know what I mean.
There's not a lot of clienteleto pull from.
I have to learn the area.
I have to meet people withinthe community.
I have to build newrelationships again.
(20:49):
You know a lot of the way andhow I work through.
Tattooing is people that I fuckwith.
You know what I mean.
People that I want to sit with,people that I'm inspired by,
people I can learn from.
So you know it's a bummer thata lot of my clientele didn't
come and that's cool.
You guys, like I, don't forgeta fucking thing, and if I see
you, you know what.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
I mean, I don't know I still think you got a little
bit of time, though still to becompletely honest with you
Because I've done that jump afew times, I'm literally getting
shit like oh, that's far.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
My in-cap was like man, that's fucked up, yeah you
know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
I'm like yeah, it's a question.
Yeah, is this the first timeyou're tattooing an area you're
not?
This is the first time everthat I've okay that's why yeah
yeah, I moved across the countrypre-social media how was that?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I made it, how was that built up?
Speaker 4 (21:40):
the clientele you got to put that time in there, man,
people got to know you're thereget this.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
So I apprenticed in oklahoma city.
First job opportunity I gotoutside oklahoma city.
The coolest place to go outsideof oklahoma is dallas dallas is
only three hours away.
That's right so I went downthere, did some guest spots, got
a job opportunity.
I started working this job.
I uh dude, I didn't have noclientele.
I think that's when I first.
(22:05):
So when I first startedinstagram, it was a photo
editing app, wasn't a socialmedia.
It was literally like all theseother apps you get on there,
put a little filter, boom oh,look at that, that looks cool.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
A lot of people really look stuff like that,
yeah, yeah, yeah that's when yousaw the hashtag.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
you're're like what the fuck is that?
Yeah, what is that thing?
It was like hey, make anInstagram like make an answer.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
I've seen that.
I know that it making it, Idon't need that shit.
And he's like no, it's likeit's like your best tattoos.
Treat people right.
That's the first step.
But back in the day we therewas places that were a penny, a
flyer, right, so I'd make aflyer and you could go to this
(22:48):
company and you could tell themhey, I want you to hit uh plano,
dallas, lower grainville, allthe areas you wanted it to hit.
You could specify I want onlyhouses or I want apartments.
I want houses and you wouldliterally pay them a penny per
flyer.
And I made a tattoo flyer with,at the time, very shitty
(23:08):
tattoos, right yeah, I've beentattooing very long at all.
I shouldn't have mentioned thatat all, but I put together front
and back shop address on the onone side phone number, that
general bullshit and the otherbunch of shitty tats.
Right, and I would do this allthe time.
I would pay a penny, a flyerand they literally would go to
these houses and flyer, I meanfucking everywhere.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Oh shit.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
And I got booked up from it.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Oh shit.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
And I just continued to tattoo.
And then Instagram slowlydeveloped because I started
painting a lot, started creatingmy own art, and then I was like
well, I want to build up aclientele of my stuff, so when
you're wanting?
To do that you've got to cutthe cost, you've got to make
stuff a little cheaper, to havebetter quality tattoos to show
people and then, once peoplestart seeing that, people get
(23:53):
what they see.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I have discounted flash going right now.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, I have discounted flash going right now
, that is a good idea.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
I post a daily discounted.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
That is a good idea that does a daily discounted
flash in that area specificallyfor somebody to walk for sure.
The only way you could get itis it's definitely humbling.
I will say that, brandon.
Oh, it's a hundred percent forsure even me, dude, I just left
orange county and it's, I'm,still I'm, I'm, well, it's it's
busy.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
It's starting to show .
It's starting to show now thatthey're starting to figure out
where you're at so yeah, but italways takes a little bit of
time yeah, always.
Yeah, I mean, I had that sameproblem too when I went from
here to orange county, when Icame back from orange county
here, same fucking thing.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
You know what I mean notice the difference in
clientele people that are reallyserious about the tattoos.
They'll continue to travel.
It's humbling because you'llyou'll do tattoos in an area and
only that area and then you'llget the like back in new york is
the same oh like shannon needsto come in and finish his sleeve
right, I'm calling him out onthe but you get people that
go to you, they go to youbecause you're convenient,
(24:47):
because you're close or theylike you or this or that.
But when you get people thatare like, all right, I'm driving
wherever this guy is right,that's when you're like, okay,
I'm doing things.
It's different.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
It's a different thing like it's easy to get
tattooed locally, but it's anecessary evil it is it is for
growth it's crucial I could 100put myself back in the same
situation where I was notgrowing and I felt like I was
focused on the wrong things andtaking for granted what
tattooing is.
This is an opportunity to docool shit around cool people.
You know what I mean.
(25:19):
And draw and fucking do art.
You know what I mean.
Like that's a, like I get to dothat shit and get paid for it.
Like I want to get back to thatrather than trying to be this
fucking businessman.
And I wanted to get back to myfamily too, you know I haven't,
really I haven't got to thatpoint yet the money's got to
come first, and then I can getback to my family.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
You know what I mean I will say too uh, give you
kudos and give these guys kudos.
I always pay attention when hecompliments the artist and he so
he, when he first told me hewas going to break through, he
goes oh yeah, in cap.
He goes.
Look these guys up, derrick,kevin.
And that's when I looked at mydog.
I was like, okay, all right,yeah, you guys got some fucking
(26:01):
hit me.
He goes I'm going there tolearn because I'm gonna put my
head down.
I'm gonna fucking learn fromthese guys.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Yeah, that's all yeah , that's, that was the right
words out of his mouth.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Yeah, well, that's essentially why, you get job
opportunities right, yeah nobodywants to deal with you, don't
think they fucking know it allwell, not that too.
You don't really want to be thebest guy in your shop either.
You want to go somewhere wherethese guys are doing clean shit.
That's the only way you'regoing to learn.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
It's like anything.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
It's like skateboarding, right?
Remember when your kidskateboarded?
Same damn thing.
Dude, I want to be around theguys who are doing some shit,
shit, so I can learn.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
That's what it's all about tattooing.
There is no fucking in between.
Either your working on my shit,I paint all the time you guys
see that shit, I'm trying tomatch the pace.
I'm learning the pace right,right exception of what's really
good.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Changes, though, right oh yeah, when you start
out like, uh, I still look at myshit sometimes, right, but I'm
saying I started tattooing inoklahoma city with no social
nothing, and it's whatever wasmaybe in the last issue of
tattoo magazine, or maybe whoyour cousin got tattooed by
whatever local guys.
Whoever was the best, that'sthe best tattoo you've ever seen
.
That's what.
That's what you thought wasreally good right and then you
(27:04):
start to travel, you start toget exposed and if you're lucky
enough to be in a mecca likesouthern california was with
tattooing.
There's dudes here that onlyhave good tattoos.
It's fucking amazing like 30year old tattoos that are
amazing, but a lot of placesdidn't have that.
So now it's like you're overexposure to great tattooing that
, if you're getting bad tattoosthat's on you you're a fucking
idiot.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
You did no research.
That's one thing.
Right like nowadays, there'sgood tattoos everywhere.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
You can find them, you know uh, so that's one thing
like I've been lucky with.
I've been around some dope assfucking tattooers from the
beginning of shit and like now,my taste is like, oh man,
fucking caviar dog, you know, Igot shit.
I got shit lasered off.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
That I thought was like the fucking shit.
My mentor's tattoos right, yeah.
I got stuff lasered off becauseI was like not that it was bad,
but it just wasn't me right.
It just was like man like allright, dude, like let me.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
One thing that I found interesting through going
through B to Z interviewingartists and stuff like that, and
there's common things betweenwhat I call heavy hitters and
people that have perfected theircraft within tattooing the gyms
, the fucking, the fosters, thefucking, whoever I mentioned,
the spikes, the all thesemotherfuckers, all these
motherfuckers out there, youguys all perfected your shit
(28:15):
Just so you're not pussy soreKev's like no, they haven't
kev's like no, they haven't Idon't know him.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
I was gonna say I don't know him either.
No, I don't know.
I'm just saying one of thethings I find interesting is
that all you guys finish yourstuff.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Jim finishes his stuff, he finishes stuff, kevin
finishes all his stuff and I sayhey, I go to him and I'm like,
bro, what the fuck are youthinking when you're doing this
shit?
Like, like your compositionlike what do you like?
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Like we're some savants or something.
They look at me.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Just fucking do it man.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Yeah, yeah.
I was going to say I'm theworst at advice.
I don't know, You're justfucking like this.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
You're the same way as me, then Like this and he's
like oh okay.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
He's like's what came out of your gut.
He was, he was asking like areal legit and you're like,
you're like that looks good,yeah, yeah just do it with it.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
He's actually been, because he'll ask some real deal
questions he's actuallythinking about and I'm like
motherfucker, I've never thoughtyeah, yeah, 16 years.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
you never asked that question.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah, so another interesting thing, one of my
favorite things.
I'll go to my favorite thingson these motherfuckers, right?
So one of my favorite thingsthis motherfucker, this is wild.
He's fucking playing Russianroulette every day.
You know what?
Speaker 3 (29:35):
I mean, I already know what's coming.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
So he makes his appointments and I'll be like,
hey, kevin, what you working onhe's like I don't know.
I'll be like what.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Dude.
My clients hate it Like I don'tknow.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Whatever?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
he wants to do, we'll do it and I'll wait until his
client comes in.
I'll go back there, take theidea and come back.
The line drawing will lookchill, clean-ass line drawing,
all hand-drawn right, all Likechill, like right, clean-ass
line drawing all hand-drawn,right All hand-drawn.
No digital shit, no digitalshit, y'all no digital shit Does
(30:08):
the tattoo Fucking immaculateevery time and it's in half the
time of anybody that I've everseen tattoo and the blends are
perfect.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
And the skin is fucking perfect, am I?
Speaker 2 (30:19):
No, because I.
It's wizard shit, bro.
And the skin is fucking perfect, am I?
I'm the opposite.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
I have a full render sketch with color black and gray
.
Whatever it is fully done, I'mtalking a whole back piece.
I'll have the whole fuckingthing rendered out, fully set up
, ready to go, and out of habit,I'm like, hey, dog, what you
got today, I don't ask no morebecause I already fucking know
he doesn't fucking know, dude,it drives my clients crazy, he
(30:44):
could make some absolute dogshit idea, and he'll still make
it look awesome.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
It's the worst.
Actually, it's not good.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
It's the worst.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
It's actually not good for our mental health it's
the worst, no well.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
It's the worst Just because they walk in.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
It did happen on a necessity, so I used to prep
back in the day, and then I justgot to a point after a while
like I'd draw this thing, I'dtake a whole day to draw it, and
then they'd come in like, oh,that looks cool, but I want this
now.
And I'm like, fuck, I just drewit.
Yeah, I just drew it.
I took a whole day and it used.
So now I'm just like I'll justdraw when they come in.
But it's not good, becausethey'll come in and then you
(31:18):
know, and every time I say tothem they give me the same thing
.
I'm all what's up?
What are we doing?
Like motherfucker, I just sentyou like four images an hour ago
and I'm like, oh yeah, cool.
Well, just show me, you know,because I like to see exactly
where it's going on the skin,because this and I'm like, how
the fuck am I gonna get itbetween that and I got, and
these guys use ipads for thatstuff, yeah, so they use ipads
(31:41):
for that right, because they'lltake the image, they'll take a
picture of the arm and they'llscan it I don't know, I'm just
not there yet beforehand.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
I just gotta figure out what size.
I think it's somethingdifferent than that.
The thinker and me and thequestion that I would pose,
coming to you and be like, hey,man, you know what I mean.
Like I think you work better inthat scenario, I think I do uh,
if you were to plan ahead, I doit, you might overthink it, you
might do something different.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
I think you work best yeah, I'm just a fuck, I'm just
a procrastinator by nature dudeI fucking.
You know, I like last minute, Ilike the stress of the last
minute draw you know what?
Speaker 2 (32:15):
I mean yeah it is stressful.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
I'm not gonna say it's not.
I try to make it look cool, butit's not Like I stress the shit
out and you know, I feel liketoo.
It's like I feel like when it'son the spot and there's a
design.
I'm like I like the way I drewit that one time, like it's
perfect, that one time some ofthat nowhere near, obviously, to
(32:39):
your level, but I used to drawstuff.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
I get a email for someone two months out.
I draw it three, four weeks inadvance and uh, that was too
much, I'd overthink it.
I feel like I would.
I would it just or not evenoverthink it.
I would do it.
I would be happy with the image.
And I get around four weekslater to tattoo it.
I'll be like I don't even knowwhat the fuck I was gonna do
here, like why is it like this?
You know you are constantlyprogressing and changing and
doing things different that Igot to where I was like fuck,
(33:02):
that I'm drawing everything themorning of, because then I'm
stoked as fuck to tattoo it.
I just drew it, I just renderedit.
It's fresh, all the lines feelfamiliar because I just did that
move, that move, that move,that.
When I get to tattooing it I'mlike man, it feels smoother, it
feels better, it feels natural,right, it doesn't feel so
planned out Because tattooingreally, if I could, I'd never
(33:23):
book another fucking appointmentagain.
I hate fucking appointments.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
I'm the same way.
I'd love to do walk-ins.
Get something cool off the wall.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
It doesn't have to mean shit.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
Yes.
Get a skull because you want afucking skull back to that I
don't give a fuck right.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Come and get a tattoo hang out.
We'll probably be best budsthat's another thing too, man.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
People should just hang out at the tattoo shop.
That's got so busy yeah I justgot so business and I.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
They would say I missed that shit get tattooed
and I wasn't old enough andthey'd be like all right, get
the fuck out.
Cool now, I'll be back tomorrowI remember that shit too.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Yeah, nobody hangs out, nobody wants to leave their
house.
They're like fucking littleweirdos on tiktok yeah, I used
to go over the fucking empiredown there and up and I just
stare over the counter yeah,like you're gonna get something.
I'm like.
Nah, I'm good dog, I'm just I'mjust looking, I'm out of here.
Yeah, I'm just looking, I'mjust like.
They're like get the hell outof here.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
I've never been a little kid with my dad going
into tattoo shops and likethinking grown men were gonna
fucking beat my ass looking atme like, and that's like.
I think that's what drew me totattooing that like tabooness of
the grittiness at any point intime if I act out of turn or
talk out of turn, these dudesare gonna fucking draw me but
that doesn't need to leavetattooing but, on the other hand
, what was really cool aboutseeing these guys?
Speaker 4 (34:29):
I remember being that same thing dude, just
intimidating motherfuckers, andthey sit down, they paint the
coolest, like most beautifulpainting.
You're like what that came outof that dude?
That's insane dude.
Those are pure hearts too right, yeah, nice, break down the
hours and tell them like theseare solid dudes.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
I think that's a big part of tattooing is the core is
very heavy right.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
It's a negative to get in.
It's fuck you.
All right, we love you.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
It's of you.
Yeah, fuck you.
Fuck this guy.
Yeah, he's all right, yeah,he's all right.
That goes back to childhoodsports and shit.
Right, we just yeah, butfucking skateboarding, whatever
you talk shit to your bestfriends, I tell, I tell, uh, I
got a 12 year old stepdaughter,seven year old stepdaughter live
with us full time, great kidsand I, I talk about that all the
time.
It's like man, like I wasactually uh talking to him the
other day about it.
It's like man like my bestfriends that I grew up with we
(35:21):
fist fought oh yeah, we stillwere homies these girls will
bicker about this because shelikes so and so, and they like
so and so, and it's like
Speaker 4 (35:30):
it's that's not the end of the world.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
You know, like boys, are just different, and that's.
That's the cloth we're cut from.
We talk shit, our best friends.
We talk shit.
If you can't fuck with eachother, we're not homies.
If I don't talk to you, I don'tfucking like you.
Very simple.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
I think there's a thing in tattooing too.
I think a lot of guys, evensimultaners I don't know if
they'd agree but I almost feltlike there was a club to it, in
a way like a group, that youwanted something that a lot of
people like them weren't a partof, and I always thought that
was really cool to be a part ofsomething like that.
You know what I mean.
Like I wanted to be a part ofsomething different.
You know, my family was allconservative construction guys,
(36:05):
cops you know a hundred percent,and for me it was just like
what the fuck is this?
You know what I mean.
This is crazy.
And I remember one names, but Iremember he was having beef
with another guy in the shop.
He brought a change of clothesbecause he's like I'm gonna beat
the shit out of this guy and Idon't want to get my clothes
dirty.
I remember sitting in there Iremember sitting there dude, I
sat back.
I was like I'm gonna hang out, Iwas gonna leave, but I'm gonna
(36:26):
kick it for a little bit it wasinsane.
I was just like jerome dude.
I was like this shit is cooland it was just something unique
about it that I don't think alot of people got to touch you.
You know what I mean.
Especially now, I think, withhow popular it is or
commercialize it is, they're notgoing to see that part of it.
I don't think anymore.
You know that's gone.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
I remember going to conventions and being like man.
I fucking know.
I know that most of these dudesin this, this establishment
right now, we all have somecommon ground, some
commonalities.
We probably could hang out,have a dinner, whatever, and get
along and be homies.
Now I go to a convention.
I'm like these motherfuckersare weirdos doing this, doing
(37:02):
that, like it's just different.
I don't know I maybe I'm jadedto it doing what's weirdo shit
define weirdo shit, just shit.
That isn't about tattooing,fucking, uh, suspension and
fucking.
I don't even know.
I've written off conventionsfor years.
I mean I don't.
I was doing 30, 35 shows a yearHand-poked.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
That's whatever.
That's kind of how I rememberkids getting hand-poked tattoos
in junior high and high school,not to put you on the spot, but
what's weird in tattooing thesedays?
What's weird?
Why is it the way that it is?
Speaker 4 (37:39):
Fuck, I don't know what's weird about tattooing.
Right now, I'm trying tobesides the obvious of looking
at it straightforward I don'tknow, man.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
I mean, I have one question just stop everything
and hold it.
Do you think that drawing yourdrawings and the way that you go
about it helps create a levelof efficiency and speed?
Speaker 4 (37:54):
for me it does.
I mean, I just think that'sjust how I taught myself to be
efficient.
You know what I mean.
Um, yeah, it helps me better.
I don't think I'd be that quickif I used a computer dude, I
like tracing paper and I likepencil.
Uh, I even like to erase thatshit.
You know what I mean?
Like, yeah, I don't know, Ithink it's easier for me to to
do that, and quick, than it isto push buttons.
(38:15):
I just, I don't know, I thinkI've just developed that myself,
you know.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I really enjoy that aspect of you.
It remains true to the corevalues of traditional.
That's part of one of thereasons I brought you guys on is
you guys have habits thatremain true to the core of
tattooing.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
I think I'm just stubborn too, man, I just look
at it like it's a craft andthat's how I keep it.
Like a craft in a trade like,hey, dude, and you know I know
people that use pens and shitI'm stubborn as hell.
Everyone says that dude, evenwhen it comes to like different
machines and shit.
You know, I know, dude, peoplecould do beautiful tattoos with
those pens and shit to me.
I look at it, my, that's not,that's not the craft I was in,
(38:58):
that's not the trade.
You know, I love a nice handmachine, hand peel iron machine.
I just think it's cool and I'mnot knocking when he uses it.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
But no, there's a time and a place for certain
styles.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
Those machines are fucking amazing, yeah but it
just looks like a tool to me.
Original, like a coil machine,just looks like a tool and
that's the craft and you're afucking dude throwing a hammer,
kind of a thing.
But you're not.
You're doing it on skin.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Well it's like why you chose to ride Harleys.
Right, you don't want to ride acrotch rocket.
It's smooth, it's fast.
It's like ooh yeah, cool.
Speaker 4 (39:23):
Some loud yeah, you want it to be fast, I want it to
be global.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
I want it to kind of scare me.
And coil machines are like thatbecause of the way that the
skin is the integrity of theskin.
You're still able to pull offthe techniques of a wand If
you're like oh, I want a supersoft you fucking do that with a
coil arm bar.
Yeah, yeah, that's why.
Speaker 4 (39:46):
I hear it.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Thanks, I don't know, I just that's why I hear it
Kevin Childs, y'all Fucking lookhim up.
He's fucking dope.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
And what was Derek's quality that stuck out to you,
derek's quality?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Derek's quality is the way that he's structured
within his stylistic things.
Everything that Derek gets, hemakes it his own style and he
doesn't fucking miss.
It's fucking hard, bro, that isone of the hardest aspects of
tattooing and he's within acolor palette that he doesn't
stray, from which is super hardtoo.
(40:19):
So selecting the value and thetones of where you put the
colors your blacks, your greens,your reds and stuff like that
is so fucking hard becausethere's nothing but options.
And then this motherfucker hisshit is detailed, so the level
of opportunity to fuck up is atits height.
And then he goes into it with afucking three when everybody's
(40:39):
fucking running a goddamn nine,which yeah, super tight liners
yeah what the fuck are you?
I was like what is that?
A fucking three.
He's like yeah, I was like, butit still looks fucking
traditional.
He's like yeah, that's realtraditional.
Yeah, you know and this is inthe beginning, where he's not
giving me much he's just likeyeah yeah, just put his head
back down, yeah that's the worldwe grew up in, right like you
(41:02):
just fucking.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
My mentor is actually funny story actually got uh.
I got uh fired as an apprenticeat my shop because, for one, I
wouldn't talk to clients whenthey come in I was super quiet,
and for two, I wouldn't askquestions, right, I don't know
what the fuck to ask.
I'm never tattooed, right.
So I was watch, I'd absorb, I'dabsorb and I'd watch, and then,
as soon as I got to the part ofmy apprenticeship where I
(41:24):
actually could start practicingtattooing, all of a sudden
questions were flowing right,because then I had something to
relate it to, because before I'mlike, what am I gonna ask I?
Don't like I'm gonna ask youhow to work on a car.
I don't fucking know dick abouta car, so where do you start
with the questions?
I got no questions, yeah, so Ididn't have no questions and all
of a sudden I did, and then itwas.
I don't know figure it out yeah, I had questions, but I was
tattooing.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
So he's like, oh, tough shit.
Yeah, he's even told me I'm notgonna teach you anything.
He told me that like one of thefirst really yeah, you tell him
I like that.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
He's like, I'm not gonna like that.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
I said that, that's cool, what a dick yeah, yeah,
yeah and you know like I'm gonnago up to and ask him like, hey,
you fucking teach me.
I like I know, but they're likefuck you.
Yeah, I know what you're doingand I got it.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
I got it like don't ask me shit, it's totally
natural I don't think about itand he's not wrong he hasn't,
but once I know I'll tell you,brandon yeah
Speaker 2 (42:12):
if you do this, then this.
But he's definitely influencedme in a way where he's
influenced my tattooing you.
You know he's left an imprinton my tattooing where he'll be
like hmm or shit.
I can tell whether my work isgood or not based off if a
motherfucker comes in my boothor not.
I can tell if a motherfucker.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
Well, nobody comes to my booth, so what does that say
?
Speaker 1 (42:34):
That's not true.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
I know it's not, I come all the way.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
I always bump into you because I that's not true, I
know it's not coming along,I'll be swinging around tattoo.
Well, part of it is because ahgreat segue.
You know why we don't go inyour fucking booth?
Because you don't fucking hearus when we're in your booth this
motherfucker he's got a bad rapif you guys have ever talked
about a rap yeah yeah, if youguys have ever talked to derek
at a convention, he probablyhearing you.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
He's in his tattoo.
I'm about tattooing.
Yeah, he is.
My thing is with tattooing is Iwant, even when it's the stupid
fucking walk-in.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
I overachieve.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
I want to do the absolute best fucking tattoo.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
I can and respect to that.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
All respect to that and a lot of it is the multiple
sounds, the music, the machine.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
I do have trouble, and I really capitalize on
reading lips too.
So if I'm tattooing and you'retalking, I'm like yeah, cuz we
get frustrated too.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
I like that shit.
I can't yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
So I struggled real bad with the mask shit when
everyone was wearing that shit,because I can't fucking.
I got to see your mouth, dude,I can't, I can't.
And you'll notice, in metattooing, I'm very strategic in
how I tattoo.
Right, if we're doing a colortattoo, we're doing the lines
and we're doing the black right,and then you're getting a break
.
You're not getting none beforethat, after that, because I have
(43:46):
to take a break because I'vegot to pour out the color.
That's the only reason.
And I do that out of sufficiency, because I don't want people to
start taking breaks and thenshit hurt and then shit hurt.
I want to make the job as easyand quick as possible for the
client.
If they show up and I haven'teaten, fuck I ain't eating then
that's just how I am.
I have to eat beforehand.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
I owe it to the people, I think, to give them
the best version of myself as Ican, and you do, and so that's
kind of where sometimes peopleare like especially at a
convention and nobody elsearound you, especially at a
convention, I probablydefinitely have come off as an
asshole to people.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yeah, there's so much shit, but you can't hear shit.
I can't hear shit.
That's why I don't like workingin those anyways and honestly,
man, there's too many fuckingpeople yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:27):
I lived in giant cities.
That's almost why I don't evendo them anymore.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
But I get kind of overwhelmed.
I'm like man, I just that's thefor years.
That's the busiest conventionthere was.
I mean I would do 10 to 15tattoos one day.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
Traditional tattoos.
Not little trinkets yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Real tats, oh yeah, would not leave the fucking
booth but to walk to the fuckingThermofax machine or use the
pisser right, and so I justwould be fucking tatting.
The more tats you do, the moremoney you make, yeah, so why am
I going to fucking talk toso-and-so?
I'm like motherfucker, I'mtrying to make money.
We got bills right.
I'm here to do good tattoos,make some money.
Get the fuck out of here.
So that may come off to peoplewho want to have their backs
(45:05):
rubbed.
I'm not that fucking guy.
I've never been that guy.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Nah, he's not that guy.
You know it's a crazy dynamicin the shop.
Everything works really reallywell.
Um, there's a right amount of,uh, maturity, respect, uh mutual
respect for everybody.
Um, nobody's really messy inour shop or like sloppy as far
as getting in people's business.
Everybody has a respect for thecraft and everybody's artistry,
(45:31):
so it works out really well.
You know we do have tensionmoments where we just fucking
talk shit back and fucking.
Speaker 4 (45:37):
You know like just joshing and shit that's going to
happen.
Yeah, but shit, I see you guysmore than I see my family.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
That's part of the reason I went there, you know,
like, like these dudes are notthe dudes that you would just
fucking go up and talk to, and Ilike that shit.
You know what I mean.
That aspect of there looks likehe'll fucking shoot you.
You know what I mean.
Like, I like that.
You know what I mean.
Like that's my homeboy.
(46:03):
Yeah, yeah, that's my homiepeople be looking at.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
We went in popeyes the other day.
They was just staring at hisass.
What's so funny is I've been soheavily tattooed for so long
you forget I got fuckingblinders.
Oh yeah, I ignore everyone inthe fucking world, right like
somebody could be looking, Idon't give a fuck right like
Like I'll be out somewhere andother people they'll notice it,
they'll be like hey, did you seethat?
I fucking ignore everybody.
But then it's funny because I'llgo out of my way and I'll talk
to people and they'll be like ohdude, he's so fucking nice.
(46:27):
I thought you were going to bea dick.
It's cool, though, becausebeing so heavily tattooed, I can
definitely change theperception of that one person
that day.
Right, like you, hold the dooropen.
Oh, you know, use your normalmanners and shit.
They're like holy fuck.
Most people with face tattoosare assholes, and you're right.
Most people with face tattoosare fucking pricks.
They're gangbangers, they'rewhatever.
(46:48):
Right, yeah?
Speaker 4 (46:49):
They're stereotypes.
Everybody's got their story.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
Yeah, I get it, and that's is being heavily tattooed
, but being able to break thestereotype.
You know, walking into a churchfor the first time and people
looking at me like they think Ineed saved right.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
I'm like, oh no, y'all been saved.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
I started talking to them and they're like, oh, we're
on the same team and then, allof a sudden, I'm like their best
friend, right, that's tattoo,culture though it is 100% Like
we'll be at.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
the one of his boys will pull up all patched up and
shit like that.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
I'm like man, I love this shit bro.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Like all right, you know what I mean.
I'm like look at thismotherfucker, he look crazy.
Yeah, I'm like look.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
I get a pass, though I get a pass, and those normally
are the coolest ones.
Speaker 4 (47:31):
Yeah, 100%.
They got nothing to reallyprove.
When it comes down to us, youknow what I mean.
There's nothing to prove,they're just okay, what's up,
what's up.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Yeah, yeah, just the regular guys, but you know it's
a look behind 100%.
It's a look behind.
Speaker 4 (47:45):
Oh, it's that culture that we are drawn to.
Man, I love that shit.
That's that culture.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (47:50):
You know what?
I mean Snakes, heavy tattoos,yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Yeah, yeah, and people will hate on it.
You know what I mean.
They'll hate on it and all thatit's like.
But it's life, man, it feelsgood.
Speaker 3 (48:05):
I think it's not.
I do what I do.
Yeah, you're genuine about itand it's truly who you are.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
That's what's up as soon as tattooing doesn't do it
for me anymore, I'll stop.
Speaker 4 (48:21):
But it's been.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
I think that's the amazing thing about tattooing is
we do it every day and it nevergets fucking old.
Speaker 4 (48:26):
I'm just kidding.
I have a love-hate.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
I have no, no, no, no , no.
Speaker 4 (48:27):
He thought the whole change.
Already I have a love-hate.
I love tattooing.
I love tattooing.
Obviously, I wouldn't be doingit for 17 years, I wouldn't be
doing it if I didn't love it.
But there's times where I dofucking hate it, dude.
I'm like dude, I gotta do thisday.
Fuck this, I don't want to dothis.
I know it's very hard too whenyou're going with like everyday
life, right, I'm sure everytattoo intermittent and then you
know you got some bullshitthat's happening in your life
(48:48):
and you got to go in there becreative.
That's a lot sometimes, dude,you know what I mean.
Or even just I go to try todraw some shit and then I can go
online and there's 30 millionof them that are badass and I'm
like, fuck, I gotta draw.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
Well, how do I draw a different?
Right, yeah, and it's like ohyou know, but yeah, like with
what you're saying, like, andhe's asked me this countless
times about developing a style,right.
This is where I have told himsomething uh with the developing
a style.
It's uh, the only way youdevelop a style is to stop
looking at styles, right, so youhave to get off Instagram.
You can't look at anybodyelse's shit.
Because no matter what you dolooking at anybody else's,
(49:23):
you're going to be thewatered-down version of whatever
you're looking at.
So the only way to develop yourown shit is to get your chops
up in tattooing and then turneverything else off.
Do your own shit, Fucking.
Do your thing, do your thingand slowly it'll eventually
Because.
I was there, I was like oh, Iwant to be one of those guys
who's got a style and has allthese appointments and shit, but
the only way you're just goingto be beating your head against
(49:43):
the wall.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
How hard is it to develop a style?
Speaker 3 (49:46):
You just got to stop thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
How hard was it to develop a style?
Speaker 3 (49:49):
I feel like I blinked and it was there.
Speaker 4 (49:53):
It's weird weird, I don't know.
I just I still feel like Ihaven't fully developed my style
.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
I feel like I'm constantly changing all the time
.
Drives me nuts too.
That shit drives me constantlychanging the stylish as fuck.
Speaker 4 (50:02):
It's hard y'all, because sometimes I, you know,
because I've gone through shopsof walk-ins where, like I had to
do a little bit of everything,you know, I mean, when I worked
at six feet under you do, waslike that, like you didn't just
get to take what you wanted todo, you took whatever, walked in
the door, dude.
So if you're doing liketraditional tattoos, one day
they're gonna come in and youdidn't book for yourself either,
they had somebody booked foryou, so you'd walk in and you
(50:24):
didn't know what appointmentsare.
Okay, this guy got this is whatthey want.
What the fuck is that's arealistic john wayne.
Dude, I do traditional, don'tmatter, you're gonna learn to
fucking do black and gray, johnwayne, and that's how it was,
and it was just on the spot, onthe spot, man, and uh, I think
it was good in some ways.
I think in some ways I was likeholy shit, you know, how am I
gonna?
How am I gonna do what I wantto do if I'm doing this?
(50:47):
But so I don't know, I don'tknow if I really.
I think people look at my stuffsometimes and they say, like
they could tell it's my tattoo.
Yeah, whatever, I'm happy withthat alone.
That makes me happy enough aslong as they're happy with it.
Fuck it, that's cool, you knowwhat I mean.
But uh, yeah, you're, I couldtell.
Yeah, when you see derrick'stattoos like sometimes when they
give you references too I tripout like you'll, you'll take
(51:08):
something.
Well, yeah, I'm like you knowit's like a severed head thing
you were showing me and then itlooks like derrick's.
I'm like how the fuck did youget that out of that?
Speaker 3 (51:15):
yeah, well, and it's funny because I explain the
style outside of just thephysical style, within tattooing
.
I say your style is how youtalk, it's how you walk, it's
how you dress.
If you're being authenticallywho you are, your tattoos will
resonate and and show that right.
So you're not going to see somesome tough ass fucking dude
riding harley's fucking grew upfighting doing some whimsical
(51:37):
bullshit.
He's going to, he's going to dofucking tough guy tats Solid as
fuck.
Speaker 4 (51:41):
Maybe a little harsh blends.
Speaker 3 (51:43):
That's just, if you're being authentically, you,
your tattoo will then have astyle based off of that Without
even trying.
Right, you know what I mean.
So it just naturally happens.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
Well, I feel like I'm getting there One of the last
paintings that I did with thesnakes and shit.
That was for him for his babyand all of that.
That was for my boy.
I like the way that one looked.
I like certain things withinthat that I actually wanted to
pull from.
I mean, I had a lot of crap.
You guys saw me frustrated, youknow, but I feel like that last
(52:16):
one was good.
Let's take a little break allright close it out, yeah all
right and hello again.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
This is zach batista with the b2z podcast, and thank
you for joining us for part one,episode two, season two, our
interview with derrickbillingsley and kevin childs.
Be sure, sure to check out parttwo.
That's out now, thank you.
All right, hello, hello, hello.
This is Zach Bautista with theB2Z Podcast.
I'm here with my co-host, asalways, mr Brandon May.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello everybody.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
And two really, really cool kick-ass guests.
Cool, I got Kevin Childs we'reactually here at his home right
now and Derek Billingsley.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
What's up, guys?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Two heavy hitters man .
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Season 2.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Just began.
We're bringing in some heavyhitters.
I wanted to start off thisepisode by saying
Congratulations on your baby.
Zach is now a father.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
This is a new episode .
Speaker 2 (00:44):
He's probably tired as hell you know he ain't slept,
we were just talking about allkinds of shit outside I
appreciate that guys he just hada little boy, um, and I'm not
gonna give names and all thatstuff, just because that's his
business.
But yeah congratulations to himyes, sir, I appreciate you guys
uh, these fellows we have arecoming on right now our fathers
(01:05):
too.
Um, you know, I only bringpeople on that I respect.
Uh, these guys are definitelypeople that I respect in the
tattoo industry.
Uh, their work speaks foritself.
Please go check them out ontheir instagrams, um, and you
guys can.
You can be, you could be thejudge of that, but I think
they're fire.
Um, thanks, man.
Yeah, yeah, man.
Um, both very different styles,but could be called traditional
(01:28):
artists, which is interesting,one of the things I enjoy the
most.
Um, they've had a long,illustrious careers.
Um, traveled around the world,work with some of the heavy
hitters, so what the informationyou guys are getting today is
not something that you wouldoften get.
So this is a treat.
Here you go.
You know what I mean.
B to z uh, kevin childs,derrick billingsley, uh, let's
(01:50):
start.
Um, and this is the firstinterview with two people.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
So yeah, this is a big moment for us too, yeah it's
probably a different dynamic,huh yeah glad, you guys.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, because you know I was thinking oh, you know
, do I do individually based.
So I was like, yeah, but wecould bring them on separately
after that.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
So I want to speak as a whole.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
How long have you guys been tattooing?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
16 years now 16 years .
Speaker 4 (02:19):
I just counted it 17.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
17 years now.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
I've been doing it longer than I haven't been
actually.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
All in Southern California, nah.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
It's been all over the country at this point.
Living-wise, I've tattooed allover the world at this point,
but I've been in SouthernCalifornia since 2016.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, that's one of the things I thought was cool.
He'll be traveling around.
He's been all over the place.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
What was your favorite spot, derek, here?
Orange County specifically.
That's where I moved to, livedon Huntington Beach for a while.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
That's crazy.
Orange County would be like thespot out of all the spots.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yeah, man, when you ride motorcycles and you come
out here and do nice weatheryear-round, I don't have to
shelf my bike for whateverperiod of time.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Man.
It's just a place fortraditional man, like if you go
to orange county.
That's traditional tattooing.
I think you know what I meanabove everything, like man.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Every other move was like all right, job opportunity,
cool, let's move there, let'sdo this, let's step in my career
in the right direction.
This was like I want to spendmoney that I've worked my ass
off for all these years, let'sgo have fun.
So me and my actually had aroommate.
I lived in nashville beforehere and, uh, he was in the
music industry as a tour managerand stuff.
So we just so happened I wasout in Orange County city of
(03:28):
Orange guest spotting.
This dude had just got offWarped Tour so he was out here
too.
At the same time we were luckyenough to have two friends give
us bikes to ride.
He was already my roommate inNashville and we just looked at
each other on the ride and we'relike, hey, dog, are we moving
here or what?
Yeah, and we're like, hey, dog,are we moving here or what?
But we had just got the house,so it's like we already knew, I
think six months into the leasewe're like, hey, after this six
months we're outro, we're moving.
So I had somebody to split thebills and do all the shit and
(03:50):
move out here and it was justmade seamless.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
I think that's the fucked up thing about California
.
Man, honestly, you know what I?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
mean I do the same thing you do that's exactly what
I did too.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
I went right down orange county.
After I was down there forseven years tattooing too.
I mean, fuck, who doesn't wantto live by the beach dude?
You know what I mean.
And the weather, and at thattime too, before before being a
dad man, orange county's fun,it's party man.
It's a good time, especiallytattooing.
What shops were you at?
So I was at Newport Tattoo andthen every once in a while I'd
sit at HB Tattoo Hang out withthose guys.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
That was the original Newport, the original one down
on the peninsula.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because thatone I don't even know where that
one is it's on the peninsula.
Yeah, yeah, I like.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Huntington.
That shop was really cool,though, man.
I mean, dude, it's been thereforever and then walk-in
base-wise because everyone'scoming in there from you know,
vacationing, and shit, dude, itwas slammed all the time.
I mean, that's how you learn totattoo faster, dude.
It was just little quick shit.
You get them in, get them out.
It was vacation tattooing, oris it vacation vibe tattooing
(05:09):
with regulars, vacation vibe?
I mean, that was the otherthing too.
That was hard to buildclientele, because a lot of
people weren't staying, theywere just coming in getting
little souvenirs and taking off.
You know what I mean.
But uh, yeah, little shit likethat all day long.
You have more, you can bang outmore money you made.
So I dug it, man.
The vibe was fun.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I had a good time down there yeah, I fucking, I
worked in this place.
Saint thomas compass rose at alanding shop, yeah I went down
there he was that he had firedeverybody in the shop.
He came, everybody was fuckingaround and he fired everybody on
a fucking island probably oneof the dumbest things you can
fucking do.
He's in the middle of the ocean.
He ain't gonna find no artists,you know, so he's like yeah so
(05:41):
I go down there and I startworking.
First week there was like ahurricane.
The thermofax goes out, soeverything is hand stenciled.
But the cruise ships are comingin and everybody's getting
these little tattoos and Ithought it was the stupidest
fucking thing in the world.
Just because it's like man, youcan't even get in the water.
Now you fucked.
They were getting in the water,they're still going.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Hey dude, I was telling them they could.
They're all.
Can I go in there?
I'm like fuck it, go ahead.
You'll be fine, I'm nottouching it up, you'll be fine.
You'll be fine I was like noman.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
this doesn't make sense to me, but OCE is
definitely one of the hearts oftattooing out here.
They used to have, they havewhat was it?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Muse Inc out there too.
Yeah, we did that a few years,yeah, and that was their
convention.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
They need to do something like that.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah, Well, they have that.
And then the big one for realtattooing was Ink and Iron.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, I think that's the one I'm talking about At the
Queen Mary Long Beach.
Ink and Iron was at the QueenMary, so that's not the one Muse
Inc is Costa Mesa, theFairgrounds yeah, that one's
cool too.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
More of a local show, right, Mostly local artists.
Ink and Iron was the who's whoof Southern California, right.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Well, I don't know man, I mean Muse Inc for a while
was taking a shot.
Dude, they had a good lineupfor a while, man.
There were some heavy guys thatwere going in and out of there
and then take it over.
They had, like, I mean, thepool you had with the bands that
were coming through there andshit, it was out of control man
and the cars kind of put alittle weird thing with it,
because it became more aboutpeople that didn't care about
the tattoos they're like oh I'mgonna go see blink or this or
(07:12):
that, which is cool, but I didthe same thing.
This is about tattooing to me.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
You know I'm here to make money and if not me.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
I was like I'm taking a break because you're a local.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
I flying in.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I'm paying for a hotel.
I'm paying for the booth.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
I'm not here to fucking bump elbows.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I got bills.
I'm trying to you got tobalance it out first Right and
then party.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
That's the good thing .
With Instagram Cracking off,it's like cool, you can do these
events.
Boom, you want to bookappointments?
Sick.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Your trip's.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
I have never flown to a convention.
The furthest one I've gone tois I don't know which one.
As far as Reno and Sacramento,it's probably about the same
distance.
Yeah, it was cool, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I like getting out of my town and seeing everybody
else.
Was that the Cap City one?
It was City of Trees,sacramento, yep, city of Trees
Do you still like doingconventions?
Speaker 4 (08:02):
I do.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I like conventions.
Yeah, just because, like Idon't like okay.
So I like the vibe ofconvention.
I like wearing my fresh-assclothes.
Hold up, we're talking aboutshit.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
You feel like I like to wear my fresh-ass clothes.
I came up to the booth.
I saw you.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Having my table laid out.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
He had a presence for a minute.
I walked up.
You know what I?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
mean, we had OnlyFans models in the shed.
I had my homies in theredrinking and we had bottles,
dave's doing yay next to me.
It was a good time.
You know what?
Speaker 4 (08:32):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
It was a good time.
That part I like.
I feel like there's always thisrival, competition type, ego
overtone with any conventionthat I don't like because you
can.
You can meet somebody outsideof a convention.
They'll be like oh, what's up,buddy, you know, and you see
them at the convention andthey're fucking cool guys,
(08:54):
because they got creases intheir shirt.
That day.
You know what I mean, and it'sjust like I don't fuck with that
bro like yeah, yeah that atthat point you're a bitch to me
for sure you know what I mean ifI see you like and I see you're
supposed to speak and like,like bro you a bitch to me, you
know okay, that's a lot of thethe convention circuit.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
It varies within styles of conventions yeah when
it's invite, only when it's, uh,just traditional tattoos.
When it's black and gray,there's a different vibe, for
sure there's.
There's cool guy, traditionaldudes that most of the dudes who
actually do really goodtraditional don't fuck with.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Like people put them on this pedestal and most dudes
are like.
Those dudes are lame.
Yeah, no, because the real onesare usually cool.
We're friends with whoever, andthat's what I was getting ready
to say.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Like put on the other end of the spectrum when
somebody's cool as fuck.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Oh, dude yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
And they give you a print and they're like it's
tight too, like I met cartoon,yeah, I met cartoon.
I was like yo look at my shit.
You know, like that happens ata convention.
Yeah, it creates opportunity.
I don't.
It's not that I want to be inthere, because what I was losing
my house, losing my shit wealready paid for it, trying to
get shirts and we're about tomake the move to our shop at the
same time.
I remember that and that's why Ihad, it was the first and then
I told him the first and itshould have been like the 12th
(10:08):
low key just because I neededtime to kind of calm down after.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
So I was like fuck when I was in there.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
It's a whirlwind, yeah, but it all worked out and
sometimes I feel like the morepressure you put on yourself,
the better man it makes you,because you like you go through
things rather than just ohdefinitely you know the the
shallow end forever definitelythose are the days you grow
right like you don't grow wheneverything's good, like I talked
to you about, like hitting thegym and stuff right it's easy to
(10:35):
go to the gym.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
When you're motivated , I feel good.
Boom, boom got my pre-workout,I'm ready to go.
I ate my meal, I'm doing good.
It's the days when you wake uplike motherfucker I do not want
to get out of bed, that's right.
You go to the gym.
That's the day you feel likeyou got the most growth and it's
the same thing with everythingin life.
It's like cool, this really badthing happens, it's not.
Don't look at it and be like,oh, woe is me.
It's like, man, that thinghappened for you, not to you.
You know what I mean.
(10:58):
There's a big differencebetween the two.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
When you look at it like man, I'm gonna be strong,
and it just shows you what youcan take and what you're capable
of a hundred percent man.
I mean, I've been through thatsituation back when I mean, fuck
dude, I've walked away from ashop.
I had a relationship fall apart.
Dude, I went from losing, likeyou know, being in this big
house to go into like a 400square foot little place with my
daughter.
Man, kick and just kick myselfin the ass and, uh, you start to
(11:20):
build yourself back up.
Do you realize you?
You're like, dude, that shitain't shit, all that shit's just
shit.
And you can all build it up andwork harder.
Fuck, dude, it ain't going tostop you.
You know what I mean?
That builds character, dude.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Let me ask you guys this, circling back to the
convention circuit and then yourguys' growth as artists was
there any kind of mentor orheavy hitter out there that you
really looked up to or you had amemorable event with or taught
you something?
Taught you something differentor different way to look at
things as you, as you were goingthrough your career?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
um, fucking question yeah, I'm sure there's endless
things I could say, because II've always been one with such a
humble mind that I've learnedvaluable things from apprentices
from shop helps, like even waysto make a stencil.
I learned from an apprentice,like, but if you have this ego
about yourself, you're not goingto learn nothing.
So it's hard to say one artistby any means, uh, with that,
(12:13):
though you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Like it's kind of just an accumulation, I think,
of years, of just circlingaround different people and
different styles and the waythey work, and yeah, that's a
big benefit.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Some people that only work in a certain style, like
my mentor, my actual mentor Idon't think he's ever done a
real traditional tattoo hiswhole life.
He could say oh, I do itbecause most people say they can
do it and they do it and you'relike, oh, you can't do it.
You know what I mean.
It's very apparent when dudesdon't do traditional and try to
do it, my mentor never didtraditional Back in the day dude
, he would do a tribal sleeveone day.
The next day he'd be doing ablack and gray realism portrait.
(12:44):
The next day he'd be doing newschool fucking red background.
You know what I mean?
Just everything.
And that's what a tattooer isstill to me to this day, even
though I do mostly what I do.
Fuck, I just did a tribalphoenix the other day.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
I'll just tattoo whatever, as long doing it like
I'm here to make people happylike you know, I can't all just
be girl heads and skulls andshit which I mean it'd be cool
if it was a lot of it is but butyeah, cool it was because it
seems like I do a little bit ofall that shit.
What I do the other day,fucking purple and green clouds,
yeah it goes in.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
It goes in phases, because then you'll get where
you're doing a bunch of coolshit.
Yeah, it's just part of part ofthat which ain't bad.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
I'm a noggin, I'm just saying I do a little bit of
everything, man, it's stillbetter than any other job,
that's true.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Imagine working for a boss, an actual boss.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
No, I haven't done that shit.
I remember the last time Ifilled out an application.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
I remember the last time I filled out an application
.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I think about that shit often.
I think about that shit often.
I'm going to bring it into thatarea, dude, your tattoo, or
fucking, especially with theseguys.
Right, fucking, look at derrick, he's like I'll fuck you up,
(13:53):
get a job.
I'll fuck you up.
You ain't shit.
No, like I think about it allthe time, like, even with their
strong fucking mindsets towardsthe thing, um, there's things
that a father needs to do andthat is bigger than the tattoo
world, and that is to feed theirfamily.
Yep, um, which I get.
Tattooing is in a state nowwhere people are pulling in
part-time jobs, they're jumpingfrom shops, they're moving from
loyalty to gain percentages,they're doing private shops,
(14:19):
they're tattooing from home.
You know what I mean Likepermanently.
Like legends now are likeforget, like I'm gonna get a
studio, or how do you guys feelabout that?
Um, what direction do you thinkit should go in?
Speaker 4 (14:36):
damn, that's a tough question even answer.
What direction do I think itshould go in?
Yeah, I don't even know how, Idon't even know how it could
even change and and I mean, Ifeel like the train has gotten
so derailed, dude, that I don'tthink there's any way to bring
it back.
I don't think, I don't thinkanybody really wants to.
God damn, I don't even know howto answer that dude I tell
(14:58):
people I'm fighting to tattoo.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I fight to tattoo every client that I get.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
I'm fighting for that well, the thing is too, though,
so many people that are pullingout that same motherfucker?
well, I think a lot of that hasto do with I.
I got to bring it back tosocial media.
I think social media is themajor problem with a lot of that
.
As far as you know, peopleopening private studios and shit
like that right, nobody wantsto work for a reputable street
shop anymore.
Um, because a lot of times youdon't need a fucking street shop
(15:27):
to stay busy because you've gotsocial media, you've got
Instagram, I mean.
Right, I mean that's the way Ithink about it, so a lot of
times these guys are like,fucking well, I don't need to
work at a street shop becauseI'm pulling all these clients
off my instagram anyway, so I'mjust going to open this little
studio.
Now.
You know, even up on the loan,we got like how many?
30 private studios, probablyright around the corner.
You know what I mean?
(15:48):
I don't think.
I think, as long as socialmedia it's that accessible
without people just walking in,it's not going to go back to the
way it was.
There's no way.
Yeah, it's not just.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
I guess youtube would be considered a type of social
media right youtube kind of isyeah but there's so much
information on there and it'slike the barrier to entry of
tattooing has gotten so low.
They've demonized people.
Uh, you have to treat people acertain way to teach them.
You can't teach someone who'sgot an ego.
So when you come in, just likethe military, you're gonna get
shit talked to you.
And if I don't talk shit to youand I ignore you, I fucking
(16:18):
hate you, right.
But if I like you and I seepotential and I want you to get
better, I'm gonna talk shit toyou and then you know what that
does is it builds up a level ofhumbleness in you that then you
can learn.
Not only that, if you don'thave that shit, why are you
going to treat anything withrespect if you haven't fought
for it right?
100 fight day in and day out,wearing fucking stupid shit
outside, washing cars, fuckingbeating up random people because
(16:40):
your mentor says swing on thatfool.
Yes, sir, you know what I mean.
If you're not doing that shit,this shit's whatever.
Dude, I don't have a level ofrespect.
Like I was taught, you have totattoo for 10 years before
you're able to teach anybody totattoo.
Yeah, that shit's gone.
I felt like that was openingshops too, One shop will have
five apprentices at a time andhe's too big an asshole to have
(17:01):
a real crew of actual tattooersand all he has is a bunch of
little fucking minions.
They all suck at tattooing, sothe barrier to entry has gotten
so fucking low that I think theonly way that gets corrected is
what we're seeing currently.
Right, everyone can agree theeconomy is fucked and tattooing
is feeling it really hard.
Good tattooers, lifetimetattooers, who we eat, breathe
(17:23):
and sleep with this shit yeah orslower than we've ever been are
we still able to pay our bill?
Speaker 4 (17:27):
yes, thankfully, like we're great is that economy and
going to rid out these is thateconomy, or is that just the
amount of tattooers that arearound here too?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
that's it, that's too many tattooers definitely part
of it, for sure.
But I think what's going tohappen?
Because of the economy, a lotof these people aren't going to
continue to stay afloat.
I know shops that I mean.
What shop was that you were?
I think you were telling me, orsteve someone was telling me a
shop that's been there a longtime in riverside elizabeth
street.
Yeah, are they close, likepossibly closing, like I've
heard other shops at?
Speaker 2 (17:56):
least just because of the the constant change of uh,
everybody to sell.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
They want more money for rent.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Everybody wants money .
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Oh shit, dude they just did that shit to my uncle's
shop down in.
San Diego, lucky yeah sold itright underneath him, dude.
He was like waiting for hislease.
He's like, dude, what's up,what's going on?
And they fucking sold it.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
The only thing that's correct is a weeding out
process, the real ones who havefrom the get-go we've.
I mean, how many years did youprepare for the winter?
Right, as a real tattooer.
It gets slow in the winter, sowhat do you do you stack back a
little coins.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
All these new dudes are like oh my god, it's slow.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
It's like motherfucker, how long you've
been tattooing, yeah well, itgoes back to the old
apprenticeship shit.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
You're saying that's why we stick into it so hard.
You, because we already knowwe've been fucking beat up.
Well, we know how to stickthrough it.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah, I could say I'm salty right now.
I'm salty as fuck right now.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
I know I see it.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
I see you walk into the shop.
I'm like fuck Brandon's on one.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
And for those of you who don't know, I'll give you a
little history.
So when Brandon came to work,you guys all work at the same
shop, at Breakthrough Tattoo.
Yeah, and how long have youguys worked there?
Speaker 4 (19:06):
I've been there about four and a half years now.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
About 2020, I started the longest, right, yeah, I
think so now, yeah, shop's goingon.
It's been there 13, 13 years,yeah, and I'm, besides, the
owner, he's the current longestartist there.
I me and my wife lived inrancho.
I was still was doing thecommute back to orange county
tattooing all the time she waspregnant yeah baby was doing
march.
So february, the month before onmy my let me get my ducks in a
row, let me.
I didn't even know any shops.
I would have moved out hereyears ago, but I didn't know any
legit tattoo shop liketraditional shops in the area
(19:29):
out this way, I only knew orangecounty.
You know what I mean.
So finally, uh, that I meanpush the narrative.
I had to, I had to do some someresearch, popped in a few shops
, feel it out, came into thisshop.
I had knew his name, never methim, just from the orange county
kind of scene.
We kind of know who's who.
You know just part of the sceneis small, as as big as we were
(19:50):
talking about it being.
It is very small of goodtattooers.
You all kind of know each otherusually.
So, yeah, february, I made themove, uh, to break through, so I
haven't even been there thatlong either so where?
Speaker 1 (20:00):
where's, where's the saltiness?
Now, now let's, let's, let'sjump back.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Where's the saltiness yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah Is it hot?
Speaker 4 (20:07):
You guys want me to turn this fan on.
I didn't mean to cut out onthis.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Would you guys want to it?
So he let me know and I'll turnthe fuck around.
All right, keep going.
I didn't mean to cut it off.
Good, kick it to you, okay.
All right, this room gets hot,man.
I'm just telling you why am Isalty?
I'm salty just because I moved.
Um, a lot of my clientele is notcoming there, um, and I feel
the pressure and it's in a timewhen there's not a lot to pull
from.
You know what I mean.
There's not a lot to pull from.
You know what I mean.
There's not a lot of clienteleto pull from.
I have to learn the area.
I have to meet people withinthe community.
I have to build newrelationships again.
(20:49):
You know a lot of the way andhow I work through.
Tattooing is people that I fuckwith.
You know what I mean.
People that I want to sit with,people that I'm inspired by,
people I can learn from.
So you know it's a bummer thata lot of my clientele didn't
come and that's cool.
You guys, like I, don't forgeta fucking thing, and if I see
you, you know what.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
I mean, I don't know I still think you got a little
bit of time, though still to becompletely honest with you
Because I've done that jump afew times, I'm literally getting
shit like oh, that's far.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
My in-cap was like man, that's fucked up, yeah you
know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
I'm like yeah, it's a question.
Yeah, is this the first timeyou're tattooing an area you're
not?
This is the first time everthat I've okay that's why yeah
yeah, I moved across the countrypre-social media how was that?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I made it, how was that built up?
Speaker 4 (21:40):
the clientele you got to put that time in there, man,
people got to know you're thereget this.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
So I apprenticed in oklahoma city.
First job opportunity I gotoutside oklahoma city.
The coolest place to go outsideof oklahoma is dallas dallas is
only three hours away.
That's right so I went downthere, did some guest spots, got
a job opportunity.
I started working this job.
I uh dude, I didn't have noclientele.
I think that's when I first.
(22:05):
So when I first startedinstagram, it was a photo
editing app, wasn't a socialmedia.
It was literally like all theseother apps you get on there,
put a little filter, boom oh,look at that, that looks cool.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
A lot of people really look stuff like that,
yeah, yeah, yeah that's when yousaw the hashtag.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
you're're like what the fuck is that?
Yeah, what is that thing?
It was like hey, make anInstagram like make an answer.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
I've seen that.
I know that it making it, Idon't need that shit.
And he's like no, it's likeit's like your best tattoos.
Treat people right.
That's the first step.
But back in the day we therewas places that were a penny, a
flyer, right, so I'd make aflyer and you could go to this
(22:48):
company and you could tell themhey, I want you to hit uh plano,
dallas, lower grainville, allthe areas you wanted it to hit.
You could specify I want onlyhouses or I want apartments.
I want houses and you wouldliterally pay them a penny per
flyer.
And I made a tattoo flyer with,at the time, very shitty
(23:08):
tattoos, right yeah, I've beentattooing very long at all.
I shouldn't have mentioned thatat all, but I put together front
and back shop address on the onone side phone number, that
general bullshit and the otherbunch of shitty tats.
Right, and I would do this allthe time.
I would pay a penny, a flyerand they literally would go to
these houses and flyer, I meanfucking everywhere.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Oh shit.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
And I got booked up from it.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Oh shit.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
And I just continued to tattoo.
And then Instagram slowlydeveloped because I started
painting a lot, started creatingmy own art, and then I was like
well, I want to build up aclientele of my stuff, so when
you're wanting?
To do that you've got to cutthe cost, you've got to make
stuff a little cheaper, to havebetter quality tattoos to show
people and then, once peoplestart seeing that, people get
(23:53):
what they see.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I have discounted flash going right now.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, I have discounted flash going right now
, that is a good idea.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
I post a daily discounted.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
That is a good idea that does a daily discounted
flash in that area specificallyfor somebody to walk for sure.
The only way you could get itis it's definitely humbling.
I will say that, brandon.
Oh, it's a hundred percent forsure even me, dude, I just left
orange county and it's, I'm,still I'm, I'm, well, it's it's
busy.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
It's starting to show .
It's starting to show now thatthey're starting to figure out
where you're at so yeah, but italways takes a little bit of
time yeah, always.
Yeah, I mean, I had that sameproblem too when I went from
here to orange county, when Icame back from orange county
here, same fucking thing.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
You know what I mean notice the difference in
clientele people that are reallyserious about the tattoos.
They'll continue to travel.
It's humbling because you'llyou'll do tattoos in an area and
only that area and then you'llget the like back in new york is
the same oh like shannon needsto come in and finish his sleeve
right, I'm calling him out onthe but you get people that
go to you, they go to youbecause you're convenient,
(24:47):
because you're close or theylike you or this or that.
But when you get people thatare like, all right, I'm driving
wherever this guy is right,that's when you're like, okay,
I'm doing things.
It's different.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
It's a different thing like it's easy to get
tattooed locally, but it's anecessary evil it is it is for
growth it's crucial I could 100put myself back in the same
situation where I was notgrowing and I felt like I was
focused on the wrong things andtaking for granted what
tattooing is.
This is an opportunity to docool shit around cool people.
You know what I mean.
(25:19):
And draw and fucking do art.
You know what I mean.
Like that's a, like I get to dothat shit and get paid for it.
Like I want to get back to thatrather than trying to be this
fucking businessman.
And I wanted to get back to myfamily too, you know I haven't,
really I haven't got to thatpoint yet the money's got to
come first, and then I can getback to my family.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
You know what I mean I will say too uh, give you
kudos and give these guys kudos.
I always pay attention when hecompliments the artist and he so
he, when he first told me hewas going to break through, he
goes oh yeah, in cap.
He goes.
Look these guys up, derrick,kevin.
And that's when I looked at mydog.
I was like, okay, all right,yeah, you guys got some fucking
(26:01):
hit me.
He goes I'm going there tolearn because I'm gonna put my
head down.
I'm gonna fucking learn fromthese guys.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Yeah, that's all yeah , that's, that was the right
words out of his mouth.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Yeah, well, that's essentially why, you get job
opportunities right, yeah nobodywants to deal with you, don't
think they fucking know it allwell, not that too.
You don't really want to be thebest guy in your shop either.
You want to go somewhere wherethese guys are doing clean shit.
That's the only way you'regoing to learn.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
It's like anything.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
It's like skateboarding, right?
Remember when your kidskateboarded?
Same damn thing.
Dude, I want to be around theguys who are doing some shit,
shit, so I can learn.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
That's what it's all about tattooing.
There is no fucking in between.
Either your working on my shit,I paint all the time you guys
see that shit, I'm trying tomatch the pace.
I'm learning the pace right,right exception of what's really
good.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Changes, though, right oh yeah, when you start
out like, uh, I still look at myshit sometimes, right, but I'm
saying I started tattooing inoklahoma city with no social
nothing, and it's whatever wasmaybe in the last issue of
tattoo magazine, or maybe whoyour cousin got tattooed by
whatever local guys.
Whoever was the best, that'sthe best tattoo you've ever seen
.
That's what.
That's what you thought wasreally good right and then you
(27:04):
start to travel, you start toget exposed and if you're lucky
enough to be in a mecca likesouthern california was with
tattooing.
There's dudes here that onlyhave good tattoos.
It's fucking amazing like 30year old tattoos that are
amazing, but a lot of placesdidn't have that.
So now it's like you're overexposure to great tattooing that
, if you're getting bad tattoosthat's on you you're a fucking
idiot.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
You did no research.
That's one thing.
Right like nowadays, there'sgood tattoos everywhere.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
You can find them, you know uh, so that's one thing
like I've been lucky with.
I've been around some dope assfucking tattooers from the
beginning of shit and like now,my taste is like, oh man,
fucking caviar dog, you know, Igot shit.
I got shit lasered off.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
That I thought was like the fucking shit.
My mentor's tattoos right, yeah.
I got stuff lasered off becauseI was like not that it was bad,
but it just wasn't me right.
It just was like man like allright, dude, like let me.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
One thing that I found interesting through going
through B to Z interviewingartists and stuff like that, and
there's common things betweenwhat I call heavy hitters and
people that have perfected theircraft within tattooing the gyms
, the fucking, the fosters, thefucking, whoever I mentioned,
the spikes, the all thesemotherfuckers, all these
motherfuckers out there, youguys all perfected your shit
(28:15):
Just so you're not pussy soreKev's like no, they haven't
kev's like no, they haven't Idon't know him.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
I was gonna say I don't know him either.
No, I don't know.
I'm just saying one of thethings I find interesting is
that all you guys finish yourstuff.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Jim finishes his stuff, he finishes stuff, kevin
finishes all his stuff and I sayhey, I go to him and I'm like,
bro, what the fuck are youthinking when you're doing this
shit?
Like, like your compositionlike what do you like?
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Like we're some savants or something.
They look at me.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Just fucking do it man.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Yeah, yeah.
I was going to say I'm theworst at advice.
I don't know, You're justfucking like this.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
You're the same way as me, then Like this and he's
like oh okay.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
He's like's what came out of your gut.
He was, he was asking like areal legit and you're like,
you're like that looks good,yeah, yeah just do it with it.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
He's actually been, because he'll ask some real deal
questions he's actuallythinking about and I'm like
motherfucker, I've never thoughtyeah, yeah, 16 years.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
you never asked that question.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah, so another interesting thing, one of my
favorite things.
I'll go to my favorite thingson these motherfuckers, right?
So one of my favorite thingsthis motherfucker, this is wild.
He's fucking playing Russianroulette every day.
You know what?
Speaker 3 (29:35):
I mean, I already know what's coming.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
So he makes his appointments and I'll be like,
hey, kevin, what you working onhe's like I don't know.
I'll be like what.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Dude.
My clients hate it Like I don'tknow.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Whatever?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
he wants to do, we'll do it and I'll wait until his
client comes in.
I'll go back there, take theidea and come back.
The line drawing will lookchill, clean-ass line drawing,
all hand-drawn right, all Likechill, like right, clean-ass
line drawing all hand-drawn,right All hand-drawn.
No digital shit, no digitalshit, y'all no digital shit Does
(30:08):
the tattoo Fucking immaculateevery time and it's in half the
time of anybody that I've everseen tattoo and the blends are
perfect.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
And the skin is fucking perfect, am I?
Speaker 2 (30:19):
No, because I.
It's wizard shit, bro.
And the skin is fucking perfect, am I?
I'm the opposite.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
I have a full render sketch with color black and gray
.
Whatever it is fully done, I'mtalking a whole back piece.
I'll have the whole fuckingthing rendered out, fully set up
, ready to go, and out of habit,I'm like, hey, dog, what you
got today, I don't ask no morebecause I already fucking know
he doesn't fucking know, dude,it drives my clients crazy, he
(30:44):
could make some absolute dogshit idea, and he'll still make
it look awesome.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
It's the worst.
Actually, it's not good.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
It's the worst.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
It's actually not good for our mental health it's
the worst, no well.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
It's the worst Just because they walk in.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
It did happen on a necessity, so I used to prep
back in the day, and then I justgot to a point after a while
like I'd draw this thing, I'dtake a whole day to draw it, and
then they'd come in like, oh,that looks cool, but I want this
now.
And I'm like, fuck, I just drewit.
Yeah, I just drew it.
I took a whole day and it used.
So now I'm just like I'll justdraw when they come in.
But it's not good, becausethey'll come in and then you
(31:18):
know, and every time I say tothem they give me the same thing
.
I'm all what's up?
What are we doing?
Like motherfucker, I just sentyou like four images an hour ago
and I'm like, oh yeah, cool.
Well, just show me, you know,because I like to see exactly
where it's going on the skin,because this and I'm like, how
the fuck am I gonna get itbetween that and I got, and
these guys use ipads for thatstuff, yeah, so they use ipads
(31:41):
for that right, because they'lltake the image, they'll take a
picture of the arm and they'llscan it I don't know, I'm just
not there yet beforehand.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
I just gotta figure out what size.
I think it's somethingdifferent than that.
The thinker and me and thequestion that I would pose,
coming to you and be like, hey,man, you know what I mean.
Like I think you work better inthat scenario, I think I do uh,
if you were to plan ahead, I doit, you might overthink it, you
might do something different.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
I think you work best yeah, I'm just a fuck, I'm just
a procrastinator by nature dudeI fucking.
You know, I like last minute, Ilike the stress of the last
minute draw you know what?
Speaker 2 (32:15):
I mean yeah it is stressful.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
I'm not gonna say it's not.
I try to make it look cool, butit's not Like I stress the shit
out and you know, I feel liketoo.
It's like I feel like when it'son the spot and there's a
design.
I'm like I like the way I drewit that one time, like it's
perfect, that one time some ofthat nowhere near, obviously, to
(32:39):
your level, but I used to drawstuff.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
I get a email for someone two months out.
I draw it three, four weeks inadvance and uh, that was too
much, I'd overthink it.
I feel like I would.
I would it just or not evenoverthink it.
I would do it.
I would be happy with the image.
And I get around four weekslater to tattoo it.
I'll be like I don't even knowwhat the fuck I was gonna do
here, like why is it like this?
You know you are constantlyprogressing and changing and
doing things different that Igot to where I was like fuck,
(33:02):
that I'm drawing everything themorning of, because then I'm
stoked as fuck to tattoo it.
I just drew it, I just renderedit.
It's fresh, all the lines feelfamiliar because I just did that
move, that move, that move,that.
When I get to tattooing it I'mlike man, it feels smoother, it
feels better, it feels natural,right, it doesn't feel so
planned out Because tattooingreally, if I could, I'd never
(33:23):
book another fucking appointmentagain.
I hate fucking appointments.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
I'm the same way.
I'd love to do walk-ins.
Get something cool off the wall.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
It doesn't have to mean shit.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
Yes.
Get a skull because you want afucking skull back to that I
don't give a fuck right.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Come and get a tattoo hang out.
We'll probably be best budsthat's another thing too, man.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
People should just hang out at the tattoo shop.
That's got so busy yeah I justgot so business and I.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
They would say I missed that shit get tattooed
and I wasn't old enough andthey'd be like all right, get
the fuck out.
Cool now, I'll be back tomorrowI remember that shit too.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Yeah, nobody hangs out, nobody wants to leave their
house.
They're like fucking littleweirdos on tiktok yeah, I used
to go over the fucking empiredown there and up and I just
stare over the counter yeah,like you're gonna get something.
I'm like.
Nah, I'm good dog, I'm just I'mjust looking, I'm out of here.
Yeah, I'm just looking, I'mjust like.
They're like get the hell outof here.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
I've never been a little kid with my dad going
into tattoo shops and likethinking grown men were gonna
fucking beat my ass looking atme like, and that's like.
I think that's what drew me totattooing that like tabooness of
the grittiness at any point intime if I act out of turn or
talk out of turn, these dudesare gonna fucking draw me but
that doesn't need to leavetattooing but, on the other hand
, what was really cool aboutseeing these guys?
Speaker 4 (34:29):
I remember being that same thing dude, just
intimidating motherfuckers, andthey sit down, they paint the
coolest, like most beautifulpainting.
You're like what that came outof that dude?
That's insane dude.
Those are pure hearts too right, yeah, nice, break down the
hours and tell them like theseare solid dudes.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
I think that's a big part of tattooing is the core is
very heavy right.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
It's a negative to get in.
It's fuck you.
All right, we love you.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
It's of you.
Yeah, fuck you.
Fuck this guy.
Yeah, he's all right, yeah,he's all right.
That goes back to childhoodsports and shit.
Right, we just yeah, butfucking skateboarding, whatever
you talk shit to your bestfriends, I tell, I tell, uh, I
got a 12 year old stepdaughter,seven year old stepdaughter live
with us full time, great kidsand I, I talk about that all the
time.
It's like man, like I wasactually uh talking to him the
other day about it.
It's like man like my bestfriends that I grew up with we
(35:21):
fist fought oh yeah, we stillwere homies these girls will
bicker about this because shelikes so and so, and they like
so and so, and it's like
Speaker 4 (35:30):
it's that's not the end of the world.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
You know, like boys, are just different, and that's.
That's the cloth we're cut from.
We talk shit, our best friends.
We talk shit.
If you can't fuck with eachother, we're not homies.
If I don't talk to you, I don'tfucking like you.
Very simple.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
I think there's a thing in tattooing too.
I think a lot of guys, evensimultaners I don't know if
they'd agree but I almost feltlike there was a club to it, in
a way like a group, that youwanted something that a lot of
people like them weren't a partof, and I always thought that
was really cool to be a part ofsomething like that.
You know what I mean.
Like I wanted to be a part ofsomething different.
You know, my family was allconservative construction guys,
(36:05):
cops you know a hundred percent,and for me it was just like
what the fuck is this?
You know what I mean.
This is crazy.
And I remember one names, but Iremember he was having beef
with another guy in the shop.
He brought a change of clothesbecause he's like I'm gonna beat
the shit out of this guy and Idon't want to get my clothes
dirty.
I remember sitting in there Iremember sitting there dude, I
sat back.
I was like I'm gonna hang out, Iwas gonna leave, but I'm gonna
(36:26):
kick it for a little bit it wasinsane.
I was just like jerome dude.
I was like this shit is cooland it was just something unique
about it that I don't think alot of people got to touch you.
You know what I mean.
Especially now, I think, withhow popular it is or
commercialize it is, they're notgoing to see that part of it.
I don't think anymore.
You know that's gone.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
I remember going to conventions and being like man.
I fucking know.
I know that most of these dudesin this, this establishment
right now, we all have somecommon ground, some
commonalities.
We probably could hang out,have a dinner, whatever, and get
along and be homies.
Now I go to a convention.
I'm like these motherfuckersare weirdos doing this, doing
(37:02):
that, like it's just different.
I don't know I maybe I'm jadedto it doing what's weirdo shit
define weirdo shit, just shit.
That isn't about tattooing,fucking, uh, suspension and
fucking.
I don't even know.
I've written off conventionsfor years.
I mean I don't.
I was doing 30, 35 shows a yearHand-poked.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
That's whatever.
That's kind of how I rememberkids getting hand-poked tattoos
in junior high and high school,not to put you on the spot, but
what's weird in tattooing thesedays?
What's weird?
Why is it the way that it is?
Speaker 4 (37:39):
Fuck, I don't know what's weird about tattooing.
Right now, I'm trying tobesides the obvious of looking
at it straightforward I don'tknow, man.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
I mean, I have one question just stop everything
and hold it.
Do you think that drawing yourdrawings and the way that you go
about it helps create a levelof efficiency and speed?
Speaker 4 (37:54):
for me it does.
I mean, I just think that'sjust how I taught myself to be
efficient.
You know what I mean.
Um, yeah, it helps me better.
I don't think I'd be that quickif I used a computer dude, I
like tracing paper and I likepencil.
Uh, I even like to erase thatshit.
You know what I mean?
Like, yeah, I don't know, Ithink it's easier for me to to
do that, and quick, than it isto push buttons.
(38:15):
I just, I don't know, I thinkI've just developed that myself,
you know.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I really enjoy that aspect of you.
It remains true to the corevalues of traditional.
That's part of one of thereasons I brought you guys on is
you guys have habits thatremain true to the core of
tattooing.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
I think I'm just stubborn too, man, I just look
at it like it's a craft andthat's how I keep it.
Like a craft in a trade like,hey, dude, and you know I know
people that use pens and shitI'm stubborn as hell.
Everyone says that dude, evenwhen it comes to like different
machines and shit.
You know, I know, dude, peoplecould do beautiful tattoos with
those pens and shit to me.
I look at it, my, that's not,that's not the craft I was in,
(38:58):
that's not the trade.
You know, I love a nice handmachine, hand peel iron machine.
I just think it's cool and I'mnot knocking when he uses it.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
But no, there's a time and a place for certain
styles.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
Those machines are fucking amazing, yeah but it
just looks like a tool to me.
Original, like a coil machine,just looks like a tool and
that's the craft and you're afucking dude throwing a hammer,
kind of a thing.
But you're not.
You're doing it on skin.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Well it's like why you chose to ride Harleys.
Right, you don't want to ride acrotch rocket.
It's smooth, it's fast.
It's like ooh yeah, cool.
Speaker 4 (39:23):
Some loud yeah, you want it to be fast, I want it to
be global.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
I want it to kind of scare me.
And coil machines are like thatbecause of the way that the
skin is the integrity of theskin.
You're still able to pull offthe techniques of a wand If
you're like oh, I want a supersoft you fucking do that with a
coil arm bar.
Yeah, yeah, that's why.
Speaker 4 (39:46):
I hear it.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Thanks, I don't know, I just that's why I hear it
Kevin Childs, y'all Fucking lookhim up.
He's fucking dope.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
And what was Derek's quality that stuck out to you,
derek's quality?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Derek's quality is the way that he's structured
within his stylistic things.
Everything that Derek gets, hemakes it his own style and he
doesn't fucking miss.
It's fucking hard, bro, that isone of the hardest aspects of
tattooing and he's within acolor palette that he doesn't
stray, from which is super hardtoo.
(40:19):
So selecting the value and thetones of where you put the
colors your blacks, your greens,your reds and stuff like that
is so fucking hard becausethere's nothing but options.
And then this motherfucker hisshit is detailed, so the level
of opportunity to fuck up is atits height.
And then he goes into it with afucking three when everybody's
(40:39):
fucking running a goddamn nine,which yeah, super tight liners
yeah what the fuck are you?
I was like what is that?
A fucking three.
He's like yeah, I was like, butit still looks fucking
traditional.
He's like yeah, that's realtraditional.
Yeah, you know and this is inthe beginning, where he's not
giving me much he's just likeyeah yeah, just put his head
back down, yeah that's the worldwe grew up in, right like you
(41:02):
just fucking.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
My mentor is actually funny story actually got uh.
I got uh fired as an apprenticeat my shop because, for one, I
wouldn't talk to clients whenthey come in I was super quiet,
and for two, I wouldn't askquestions, right, I don't know
what the fuck to ask.
I'm never tattooed, right.
So I was watch, I'd absorb, I'dabsorb and I'd watch, and then,
as soon as I got to the part ofmy apprenticeship where I
(41:24):
actually could start practicingtattooing, all of a sudden
questions were flowing right,because then I had something to
relate it to, because before I'mlike, what am I gonna ask I?
Don't like I'm gonna ask youhow to work on a car.
I don't fucking know dick abouta car, so where do you start
with the questions?
I got no questions, yeah, so Ididn't have no questions and all
of a sudden I did, and then itwas.
I don't know figure it out yeah, I had questions, but I was
tattooing.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
So he's like, oh, tough shit.
Yeah, he's even told me I'm notgonna teach you anything.
He told me that like one of thefirst really yeah, you tell him
I like that.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
He's like, I'm not gonna like that.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
I said that, that's cool, what a dick yeah, yeah,
yeah and you know like I'm gonnago up to and ask him like, hey,
you fucking teach me.
I like I know, but they're likefuck you.
Yeah, I know what you're doingand I got it.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
I got it like don't ask me shit, it's totally
natural I don't think about itand he's not wrong he hasn't,
but once I know I'll tell you,brandon yeah
Speaker 2 (42:12):
if you do this, then this.
But he's definitely influencedme in a way where he's
influenced my tattooing you.
You know he's left an imprinton my tattooing where he'll be
like hmm or shit.
I can tell whether my work isgood or not based off if a
motherfucker comes in my boothor not.
I can tell if a motherfucker.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
Well, nobody comes to my booth, so what does that say
?
Speaker 1 (42:34):
That's not true.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
I know it's not, I come all the way.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
I always bump into you because I that's not true, I
know it's not coming along,I'll be swinging around tattoo.
Well, part of it is because ahgreat segue.
You know why we don't go inyour fucking booth?
Because you don't fucking hearus when we're in your booth this
motherfucker he's got a bad rapif you guys have ever talked
about a rap yeah yeah, if youguys have ever talked to derek
at a convention, he probablyhearing you.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
He's in his tattoo.
I'm about tattooing.
Yeah, he is.
My thing is with tattooing is Iwant, even when it's the stupid
fucking walk-in.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
I overachieve.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
I want to do the absolute best fucking tattoo.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
I can and respect to that.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
All respect to that and a lot of it is the multiple
sounds, the music, the machine.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
I do have trouble, and I really capitalize on
reading lips too.
So if I'm tattooing and you'retalking, I'm like yeah, cuz we
get frustrated too.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
I like that shit.
I can't yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
So I struggled real bad with the mask shit when
everyone was wearing that shit,because I can't fucking.
I got to see your mouth, dude,I can't, I can't.
And you'll notice, in metattooing, I'm very strategic in
how I tattoo.
Right, if we're doing a colortattoo, we're doing the lines
and we're doing the black right,and then you're getting a break
.
You're not getting none beforethat, after that, because I have
(43:46):
to take a break because I'vegot to pour out the color.
That's the only reason.
And I do that out of sufficiency, because I don't want people to
start taking breaks and thenshit hurt and then shit hurt.
I want to make the job as easyand quick as possible for the
client.
If they show up and I haven'teaten, fuck I ain't eating then
that's just how I am.
I have to eat beforehand.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
I owe it to the people, I think, to give them
the best version of myself as Ican, and you do, and so that's
kind of where sometimes peopleare like especially at a
convention and nobody elsearound you, especially at a
convention, I probablydefinitely have come off as an
asshole to people.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yeah, there's so much shit, but you can't hear shit.
I can't hear shit.
That's why I don't like workingin those anyways and honestly,
man, there's too many fuckingpeople yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:27):
I lived in giant cities.
That's almost why I don't evendo them anymore.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
But I get kind of overwhelmed.
I'm like man, I just that's thefor years.
That's the busiest conventionthere was.
I mean I would do 10 to 15tattoos one day.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
Traditional tattoos.
Not little trinkets yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Real tats, oh yeah, would not leave the fucking
booth but to walk to the fuckingThermofax machine or use the
pisser right, and so I justwould be fucking tatting.
The more tats you do, the moremoney you make, yeah, so why am
I going to fucking talk toso-and-so?
I'm like motherfucker, I'mtrying to make money.
We got bills right.
I'm here to do good tattoos,make some money.
Get the fuck out of here.
So that may come off to peoplewho want to have their backs
(45:05):
rubbed.
I'm not that fucking guy.
I've never been that guy.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Nah, he's not that guy.
You know it's a crazy dynamicin the shop.
Everything works really reallywell.
Um, there's a right amount of,uh, maturity, respect, uh mutual
respect for everybody.
Um, nobody's really messy inour shop or like sloppy as far
as getting in people's business.
Everybody has a respect for thecraft and everybody's artistry,
(45:31):
so it works out really well.
You know we do have tensionmoments where we just fucking
talk shit back and fucking.
Speaker 4 (45:37):
You know like just joshing and shit that's going to
happen.
Yeah, but shit, I see you guysmore than I see my family.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
That's part of the reason I went there, you know,
like, like these dudes are notthe dudes that you would just
fucking go up and talk to, and Ilike that shit.
You know what I mean.
That aspect of there looks likehe'll fucking shoot you.
You know what I mean.
Like, I like that.
You know what I mean.
Like that's my homeboy.
(46:03):
Yeah, yeah, that's my homiepeople be looking at.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
We went in popeyes the other day.
They was just staring at hisass.
What's so funny is I've been soheavily tattooed for so long
you forget I got fuckingblinders.
Oh yeah, I ignore everyone inthe fucking world, right like
somebody could be looking, Idon't give a fuck right like
Like I'll be out somewhere andother people they'll notice it,
they'll be like hey, did you seethat?
I fucking ignore everybody.
But then it's funny because I'llgo out of my way and I'll talk
to people and they'll be like ohdude, he's so fucking nice.
(46:27):
I thought you were going to bea dick.
It's cool, though, becausebeing so heavily tattooed, I can
definitely change theperception of that one person
that day.
Right, like you, hold the dooropen.
Oh, you know, use your normalmanners and shit.
They're like holy fuck.
Most people with face tattoosare assholes, and you're right.
Most people with face tattoosare fucking pricks.
They're gangbangers, they'rewhatever.
(46:48):
Right, yeah?
Speaker 4 (46:49):
They're stereotypes.
Everybody's got their story.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
Yeah, I get it, and that's is being heavily tattooed
, but being able to break thestereotype.
You know, walking into a churchfor the first time and people
looking at me like they think Ineed saved right.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
I'm like, oh no, y'all been saved.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
I started talking to them and they're like, oh, we're
on the same team and then, allof a sudden, I'm like their best
friend, right, that's tattoo,culture though it is 100% Like
we'll be at.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
the one of his boys will pull up all patched up and
shit like that.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
I'm like man, I love this shit bro.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Like all right, you know what I mean.
I'm like look at thismotherfucker, he look crazy.
Yeah, I'm like look.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
I get a pass, though I get a pass, and those normally
are the coolest ones.
Speaker 4 (47:31):
Yeah, 100%.
They got nothing to reallyprove.
When it comes down to us, youknow what I mean.
There's nothing to prove,they're just okay, what's up,
what's up.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Yeah, yeah, just the regular guys, but you know it's
a look behind 100%.
It's a look behind.
Speaker 4 (47:45):
Oh, it's that culture that we are drawn to.
Man, I love that shit.
That's that culture.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (47:50):
You know what?
I mean Snakes, heavy tattoos,yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Yeah, yeah, and people will hate on it.
You know what I mean.
They'll hate on it and all thatit's like.
But it's life, man, it feelsgood.
Speaker 3 (48:05):
I think it's not.
I do what I do.
Yeah, you're genuine about itand it's truly who you are.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
That's what's up as soon as tattooing doesn't do it
for me anymore, I'll stop.
Speaker 4 (48:21):
But it's been.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
I think that's the amazing thing about tattooing is
we do it every day and it nevergets fucking old.
Speaker 4 (48:26):
I'm just kidding.
I have a love-hate.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
I have no, no, no, no , no.
Speaker 4 (48:27):
He thought the whole change.
Already I have a love-hate.
I love tattooing.
I love tattooing.
Obviously, I wouldn't be doingit for 17 years, I wouldn't be
doing it if I didn't love it.
But there's times where I dofucking hate it, dude.
I'm like dude, I gotta do thisday.
Fuck this, I don't want to dothis.
I know it's very hard too whenyou're going with like everyday
life, right, I'm sure everytattoo intermittent and then you
know you got some bullshitthat's happening in your life
(48:48):
and you got to go in there becreative.
That's a lot sometimes, dude,you know what I mean.
Or even just I go to try todraw some shit and then I can go
online and there's 30 millionof them that are badass and I'm
like, fuck, I gotta draw.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
Well, how do I draw a different?
Right, yeah, and it's like ohyou know, but yeah, like with
what you're saying, like, andhe's asked me this countless
times about developing a style,right.
This is where I have told himsomething uh with the developing
a style.
It's uh, the only way youdevelop a style is to stop
looking at styles, right, so youhave to get off Instagram.
You can't look at anybodyelse's shit.
Because no matter what you dolooking at anybody else's,
(49:23):
you're going to be thewatered-down version of whatever
you're looking at.
So the only way to develop yourown shit is to get your chops
up in tattooing and then turneverything else off.
Do your own shit, Fucking.
Do your thing, do your thingand slowly it'll eventually
Because.
I was there, I was like oh, Iwant to be one of those guys
who's got a style and has allthese appointments and shit, but
the only way you're just goingto be beating your head against
(49:43):
the wall.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
How hard is it to develop a style?
Speaker 3 (49:46):
You just got to stop thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
How hard was it to develop a style?
Speaker 3 (49:49):
I feel like I blinked and it was there.
Speaker 4 (49:53):
It's weird weird, I don't know.
I just I still feel like Ihaven't fully developed my style
.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
I feel like I'm constantly changing all the time
.
Drives me nuts too.
That shit drives me constantlychanging the stylish as fuck.
Speaker 4 (50:02):
It's hard y'all, because sometimes I, you know,
because I've gone through shopsof walk-ins where, like I had to
do a little bit of everything,you know, I mean, when I worked
at six feet under you do, waslike that, like you didn't just
get to take what you wanted todo, you took whatever, walked in
the door, dude.
So if you're doing liketraditional tattoos, one day
they're gonna come in and youdidn't book for yourself either,
they had somebody booked foryou, so you'd walk in and you
(50:24):
didn't know what appointmentsare.
Okay, this guy got this is whatthey want.
What the fuck is that's arealistic john wayne.
Dude, I do traditional, don'tmatter, you're gonna learn to
fucking do black and gray, johnwayne, and that's how it was,
and it was just on the spot, onthe spot, man, and uh, I think
it was good in some ways.
I think in some ways I was likeholy shit, you know, how am I
gonna?
How am I gonna do what I wantto do if I'm doing this?
(50:47):
But so I don't know, I don'tknow if I really.
I think people look at my stuffsometimes and they say, like
they could tell it's my tattoo.
Yeah, whatever, I'm happy withthat alone.
That makes me happy enough aslong as they're happy with it.
Fuck it, that's cool, you knowwhat I mean.
But uh, yeah, you're, I couldtell.
Yeah, when you see derrick'stattoos like sometimes when they
give you references too I tripout like you'll, you'll take
(51:08):
something.
Well, yeah, I'm like you knowit's like a severed head thing
you were showing me and then itlooks like derrick's.
I'm like how the fuck did youget that out of that?
Speaker 3 (51:15):
yeah, well, and it's funny because I explain the
style outside of just thephysical style, within tattooing
.
I say your style is how youtalk, it's how you walk, it's
how you dress.
If you're being authenticallywho you are, your tattoos will
resonate and and show that right.
So you're not going to see somesome tough ass fucking dude
riding harley's fucking grew upfighting doing some whimsical
(51:37):
bullshit.
He's going to, he's going to dofucking tough guy tats Solid as
fuck.
Speaker 4 (51:41):
Maybe a little harsh blends.
Speaker 3 (51:43):
That's just, if you're being authentically, you,
your tattoo will then have astyle based off of that Without
even trying.
Right, you know what I mean.
So it just naturally happens.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
Well, I feel like I'm getting there One of the last
paintings that I did with thesnakes and shit.
That was for him for his babyand all of that.
That was for my boy.
I like the way that one looked.
I like certain things withinthat that I actually wanted to
pull from.
I mean, I had a lot of crap.
You guys saw me frustrated, youknow, but I feel like that last
(52:16):
one was good.
Let's take a little break allright close it out, yeah all
right and hello again.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
This is zach batista with the b2z podcast, and thank
you for joining us for part one,episode two, season two, our
interview with derrickbillingsley and kevin childs.
Be sure, sure to check out parttwo.
That's out now, thank you.
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