July 17, 2025 • 40 mins
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📚 Summary
Winning Your Breakup: Finding Yourself Amidst the Chaos | Babe Philosophy with Liv and Meli
In this episode of Babe Philosophy, Liv and Meli dive deep into the concept of 'winning your breakup.' They discuss the importance of taking full responsibility for your experience post-breakup and the transformative power of embracing your grief.
The hosts share personal stories of heartbreak and how they navigated the emotional aftermath to reconnect with their true selves. They highlight the significance of clean fuel, being present with your emotions, and not letting external perceptions dictate your healing process.
Tune in to discover how breakups can be a catalyst for profound self-discovery and growth.
⌛ Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Babe Philosophy
00:41 Importance of Biomarkers
01:12 Winning Your Breakup
03:03 Personal Breakup Stories
07:51 Creating Babe Philosophy
16:57 Navigating Post-Breakup Perceptions
21:39 Friend's Concern and Projection
22:29 Detaching from Others' Perceptions
23:09 Confidence and Attraction
23:59 Embracing Emotional Pain
25:50 Alchemy in Pain and Breakups
28:33 Facing Grief and Self-Discovery
31:39 The Journey of Knowing Thyself
33:44 Embracing Change and Possibility
38:00 Final Thoughts and Farewell
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
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(00:21):
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(00:41):
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this episode of Babe Philosophy.If you're going to win your
breakup, you need to see yourself as 110% responsible for
your experience. You're not responsible for their
experience. You're not responsible for their
choices, their behavior. You know the bad things that
(01:25):
they did, even the good things that they did.
Those are not your responsibility.
You are totally culpable, totally responsible for how you
experienced that breakup and what you're experiencing in the
face of it as you walk down that.
All of that is on you because your internal experience is
entirely under your control. This is Babe philosophy.
(01:50):
A podcast where questions mattermore than answers, where liminal
spaces are revered, and where magic is practical.
We are your hosts, Mellie Wolf, and live wickedly.
(02:11):
Hello, welcome to Babe Philosophy with Liv and Mehali.
We're talking about winning breakups because winning is
everything. We're going to talk about that.
We are going to talk about that.Welcome back babes.
(02:33):
We are here to talk about breakups and how to win them.
And I'm actually really excited to dive into this topic and this
concept because I think that this is a really good play
between like a higher perspective and like human
fucking experience and this likedesire to just not let that
(02:54):
motherfucker win. So I'm really excited to hear
what you have to say about this and then to see where this goes
and where our Rif takes us. And also like literally just
said this before we hopped on here, but breakup is how this
whole show started. So this feels like a very native
core concept to Bay philosophy, which is like, what the fuck do
(03:15):
you do with breakups and how is that raw material available to
you and what are you going to dowith it?
Yes. So Mama, I think to start, I
really want to just talk about like, when we're talking about
winning, what do we mean when wesay like win the breakup?
What does win mean? Yeah.
I feel like the way that I want to go with this first to like
talk about what I imagine peoplethink and what I have thought in
(03:39):
the past, which is like, you know, date as many people as you
can and try to make sure that your ex knows to like rub it in
their face. You know, be out and about as
much as possible. Like flex on them.
Look really hot. Show up at all the parties that
(04:00):
he might be at so he can see youlooking fine and like you know
that kind of revenge like the. Revenge body thing that Khloe.
Kardashian got into yes and it'snot that I think that any one of
those, as usual, I always take the stance right.
It's not that I think any one ofthose is the wrong route.
(04:20):
I think, as Liv and I always talk about, that's the wrong
fuel. And ultimately the win lies in
cleaning up the fuel and doing the things that feel good to you
because they feel good to you, not because you're trying to
make somebody else jealous. And like, the win is when you
are so full of yourself that youdon't need to flex on them
(04:47):
bitches. Because.
Because. You are just like in your
fucking vibe, you know what I mean?
Like you're feeling yourself andyou don't necessarily like,
yeah, of course it feels good for people to see you in that,
to be witnessed in that. But it doesn't feel like this.
I need him to see, to be validated.
(05:09):
I need him to know that I'm doing better without him.
You know? It's like the win is knowing for
yourself that you're better without him.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
No, I like, yes, absolutely. Say it again for the people in
the back. The win is just.
Well, even as you're talking about this, I'm thinking about
(05:30):
what seems obvious from the outside, but when you're in, it
maybe is a little more nebulous.If you are still reacting to the
need for approval or validation from this person, you're still
wrapped up in them. There's still like this
codependency happening. You're not winning.
Yeah, no, you're stuck. Yeah.
That to me is, I would say stuck.
(05:52):
But if you stay there, like you've lost, like it's not even
just that you didn't win. You've totally lost.
So something that was happening for me and like, I'm still like
getting to the place where like that relationship has left my
body. You know, there's still randomly
like, you know, grief is like weird and it stretches out.
But there's still places where I'll have an experience and then
(06:13):
something emotional comes through and I'm like, oh, that
was something else left from this breakup.
But for me, it was like, and I think I said this to you, I
cannot wait for the day when I haven't thought about him for
such a long period of time that I can't even remember the last
time I thought of him. And the thought that gets me to
realize that is realizing I haven't thought about him.
And I get to message you and go,bitch.
(06:35):
I can't remember the last time Ithought of Scott.
And this morning I realized I hadn't thought of him in a long
time, that he's not taking up space in my experience of life
anymore. And not in this like punitive,
like fuck that guy. Even though I'm feeling that
energy, it's more of like AI moved on.
I let it go. I took what was available to me
(06:56):
in the wreckage and I did something with it.
I rebuilt something. I learned something.
I I took The Dirty fuel, cleanedit up and now it's fueling my
best self and not from a place where I need him to see it.
I mean, in fact, I've blocked him on everything.
My actual lived truth now is like he doesn't get to know.
Like I don't want him to know what I'm doing.
(07:17):
I don't want him to know how good I am right now because he
doesn't get a ticket to that show.
He chose actively that he doesn't get to witness me.
But I was in that place before where I was like there was a
part of me that wanted him to see and wanted the validation
that he was looking and saw whathe did.
Yeah, he wanted to go Miranda Lambert on that hoe and slash
(07:38):
his tires and key his car. I think that's Carrie Underwood.
Is that what it is? Miranda Lambert probably has a
song about it too. I'm not really sure.
But I'm not sure either. Yeah.
I mean, yeah, I feel like the best way for us to kind of
really depict this is to share our story that, like, overlaps
(08:04):
and how we created babe philosophy and how, like, babe
philosophy was really fueled by our breakups in so many ways,
but not in a way at all that hadanything to do with our exes.
It had everything to do with us needing to find something that
was just ours 'cause I think that that's what happens when
(08:28):
you get out of a relationship. And especially if it's like a
really messy, you know, messy relationship, messy breakup,
what will oftentimes happen, AndI would say probably most of the
time this is the case when you have a messy split or a messy
interaction with this, with the person in your relationship.
You're left realizing that you've lost so much of yourself.
(08:52):
You know what I mean? You've lost so much of yourself
through whatever that was. And you maybe because you just
didn't realize, like over time it was gradually progressing,
that you were just like trying to keep the peace and doing
whatever you thought it took to do that, regardless of who you
are and what you need. Or maybe, you know, they kind of
(09:16):
gave you ultimatums that made you feel like you had to do
that. Or maybe, you know, you were
just spending so much time trying to keep the peace in the
relationship that you, like, forgot to tend to yourself.
And you know, I think that, or maybe you think you were tending
to yourself, but you weren't because you were tending to
(09:39):
yourself in the context of somebody else.
Yeah, and that's how I was confusing myself, right?
I just thought about our personal experiences and I was
like, oh, OK, yeah, that is probably what was really
happening for us. So then we didn't even, I think,
realize the extent to which we had lost ourselves until we got
out of those relationships. And then we reflected back and
(10:01):
we were like, oh, shit, I am a shell of myself.
And that's a really scary place to be because 1.
You feel like somebody else is kind of like responsible for
your wholeness. Well, it felt like he took it
from me, right? You took my wholeness.
Right. Yeah.
And then two, it's like, where the fuck do I go from here?
(10:24):
Because who am I? Who am I?
Yeah. What do I like?
Yeah, What do I want? And those places though, are so
potentially powerful because those are the spaces where you
get to build something. And those are the places where
you get to decide what you're gonna build.
And you get to, if you really come with it with like good
(10:45):
clean energy and like intention and desire for connecting to
self, you will create fucking magic in that space.
It is the most uncomfy space. But this is what breakups are
amazing for honestly. Like this is the gift in breakup
(11:06):
is what is the blank canvas experience that you get where
you're just like I can either take this plummet into revenge
mindset, self pity, trying to get this person back and let
this person continue to run my life even though they're not in
my life anymore. But The Who they are in my mind
(11:26):
running around my mind is still controlling me.
Or I can take this blank canvas and paint something beautiful
for myself and you. And I definitely both like, it
wasn't like just one clean version of, you know, it was.
So messy. Yeah, we both had both, right.
(11:46):
Like both of our exes were stillrunning through our minds and we
still navigated that. And that was very challenging.
But we also had so much intention and we had so much
desire to connect to ourselves for ourselves and nobody else.
And we held each other in that and we supported each other in
that. And we like kind of were each
other's spirit animals in that. You know what I mean?
(12:07):
Yes. And that is how we created babe
philosophy and literally, I kid you not, babe philosophy, like
it could have been something. And we were like, let's make
something big and loud and talk shit about our ex's lives.
And they can see it, you know, like, there's like, 'cause that
is at face value what happened, right?
(12:29):
And a lot of people could have looked at us and been like, oh,
these bitches just went through a breakup and they just wanted
to talk shit about their exes. And they're just like trying to
get revenge. But the truth of the matter is
made big philosophy for ourselves.
We had no thought in mine at all.
(12:50):
Like Babe, philosophy was through and through. 100% just a
Melian Live creation sourced from Melian Live's desire to
connect to ourselves and each other and something great.
And it ended up looking very similar to what it would look
like if we had decided we were gonna do something to get back
(13:11):
at our exes. Think about that perspective
you're blowing. Yo it does look like that.
Fuck. Well, there were like, I
remember in the beginning, therewas a lot of times where we
would like go on rants about ourexes and like how we felt
wronged and like shit that happened in the container that
wasn't OK, La La, la, la. And I would oftentimes get this
(13:33):
like kind of I get the scarys because I would be like, oh man,
I don't want people to think that we did this to do this, You
know, like I don't, I don't wantpeople to think that we created
this to get back at our exes, which in a way you could say we
did, but the fuel was clean, right?
It was like, and that's what I ended up landing to every time,
(13:54):
every time I talked myself out of that fear because I was like,
you know what, I know that I'm doing this for me.
I know that this fuel is clean. I know this isn't about my ex.
So like I'm gonna just rest in that and whoever wants to
perceive that I'm doing this to get back at somebody or to get
revenge or to whatever, if there's anybody out there that's
perceiving that, that's a them problem and not a me problem.
(14:15):
I'm, as long as I know the truthof where I'm coming from, that's
all that matters. It doesn't matter what it looks
like. Yeah, no, I'm totally with you.
And actually what you just said right there, I feel like is one
of the most powerful and potent lessons that we took from our
breakups and have been practicing ever since then is
like not worrying about perceptions, not worrying about,
(14:38):
oh, if I do this, then this person's going to feel this way.
And then dedicated to like all the worrying about and the pre
processing of if I make this choice, what are all the
possible outcomes and which ones?
The, you know, the shrinking, which one's the least
disruptive? Which one takes up the least
amount of space? This particular container babe
philosophy is where we really said, fuck that.
We're going to take up all the space.
(14:58):
We're going to be loud. It's going to be hot pink.
What we did, You know, we've done a little bit of a rebrand,
in case anybody's noticed, just in our color palette.
Mellie was like, it's this blackand pink's really giving hot
topics. And I was like, yeah, yeah.
But you know, that's just where we were at the time.
And that's so interesting to me to like look back with that lens
that you've just presented because I was so lost in the, it
(15:21):
was so easy for me, especially at the very beginning of Babe
Philosophy to just get obsessed and to spend so many hours just,
I'm designing this website, I'm building this thing, I have this
idea. I'm like working on all the
different arrangements of the logo because it was a place
where I didn't think about Scott.
I was like when I was in Babe Philosophy, like the breakup
didn't exist. Even in the episodes where we
(15:43):
were talking about it, it felt to me, and I think that may be
where the clean fuel showed up the most in our expression.
And I think that this might be why I wasn't, I didn't have
access to or didn't click for mewhat it might look like outside
of us. We were always, no matter what
we said about our perception of their role, taking
(16:05):
responsibility for ours. So because we were coming from
clean fuel, I remember when I would talk about these things,
yeah, I would say the emotions of like, this wasn't OK.
I didn't like this da, da, da. And also I put myself in those
positions. I did that to myself, which I
think that's probably a staple element of like, if you're going
to win your breakup, you need tosee yourself as 110% responsible
(16:25):
for your experience. You're not responsible for their
experience. You're not responsible for their
choices, their behavior. You know, the bad things that
they did, even the good things that they did, those are not
your responsibility. You are totally culpable,
totally responsible for how you experienced that breakup and
what you're experiencing in the face of it as you walk down
(16:48):
that. All of that is on you because
your internal experience is entirely under your control.
Yep. Yep, 100% yeah.
I'm just having this memory right now where I started babe
philosophy and started painting more and started posting on
Instagram more. And a guy friend reflected to me
(17:09):
like his perception of me through this breakup and he's
like, yeah, you know, like you seem like you're struggling
'cause, you know, and I was like, why do you, why are you
perceiving that? And I mean, not that it was
right or wrong, just like why are you perceiving that?
And he was like, well, you know,you do what, like, you're doing
what like a lot of girls do after a breakup, which is like
(17:32):
get more present on social mediaand on Instagram.
And clearly he was like saying, you know, it's like, for from
his perspective, he perceives that women do this after
breakups because they get attention, they get more
attention and they're feeling the need for attention.
(17:53):
And I remember feeling like so misunderstood.
I remember feeling like so judged.
I remember feeling like so defensive, like what the fuck?
Like yo, you're so misreading me.
Like I am exploring me and my creativity and I'm putting it
out there and I'm not like attention seeking.
(18:15):
I'm not like trying to rub it inanybody's face.
I'm not trying to prove anythingto anybody.
I'm just trying to fucking figure out who the fuck I am and
what the fuck I'm doing now. And like, I'm fucking throwing
spaghetti out a wall. That's what I'm doing.
You know what I mean? Like, and, and it was just so
(18:38):
such an interesting moment for me 'cause I didn't actually have
the awareness at the time that like, I could know my intentions
and like let him have his perception of my intentions.
And I think that's really like where the win is, is like when
you settle in a place of knowingyour intentions and knowing your
(18:59):
desires and knowing your fuel and not needing to prove it to
anybody and recognizing that thepeople who are going to see you
for what it really is are the people that are the ones that
you're going to want to talk to.Yeah, I, that's so interesting.
Again, like, not like now that you're pointing out that that's
(19:21):
a way that, you know, someone could be viewed.
Now I'm like, Oh yeah, I can seewhy someone would view that.
And I also can understand why, you know, a modern man,
especially if he's participatingin online dating, might come to
that conclusion because I've heard that a lot from people,
they're like, oh, these women just want attention.
They don't even want to meet up,blah, blah, blah.
Right. And this is like a little bit of
a sidebar, but could we take like 5 minutes to talk about
(19:41):
like, why is everybody hating onpeople who want attention?
Isn't all of social media getting attention?
Like, OK, what about the dudes who go on there and are like
flexing in their fucking mirror,like all their gym whatever,
and, you know, showing off theircar and their watch and their.
(20:02):
Yeah. I mean, it's like everybody has
their like kosher form of accessing attention, you know
what I mean? Everybody has attention seeking
on some level and everybody has their like socially acceptable
version of how to do that. And so the like socially
unacceptable versions of how to do that, right?
(20:22):
And like this particular friend of mine does like look for
attention, but he looks for it in like dancing and going to the
gym and he likes comments on like how he looks.
But to him that feels socially acceptable.
If he were to post on social media, that's not acceptable.
(20:43):
It's just it's like case by case, everybody has their like,
oh, that doesn't feel right. And that does feel right.
And it's like, OK, great. That's your reality that you're
living in. Yeah, that's like, yeah.
So I'm just like, why are you projecting that social media is
exactly the place to go get attention?
That's what it's for. That's what it's for.
I'm sorry. That just blew my mind a little
bit. I'm like, OK.
(21:05):
And on top of that, it's like when you get into, when you get
into a committed romantic relationship there, unless
you're like on social media for a purpose, of course, you're
posting a little bit less because you're spending more of
your time with somebody else. And now, especially if you were
in an enmeshed relationship likewe both were, we were like up
each other's butts. Yeah, I got a lot of fucking
(21:26):
time and presence back, thank fucking God.
And yeah, I'm using some of it on in social media 'cause I want
some fucking attention. People listen to my ideas, think
about them, get mad at them. I don't care.
But listen like you know. Yeah.
And I mean, the interesting partof that, too, is that this
friend of mine was reflecting this back to me, and I could
(21:48):
tell that like his perception was like, I'm sharing this with
you because I care about you andI love you.
And it's like, it was almost like this I'm worried about you
kind of thing. And it wasn't like he couldn't
even perceive that he was projecting.
That's so frustrating, you know what I mean?
(22:09):
So when it comes to people like that, it's like, OK, like,
you're thank you for helping me clarify the bounds within which
we can relate, you know? Like he's just not the friend
that I go to to be seen or understood because he just
doesn't, you know what I mean? Yeah, no, that's again, like I
think that that does fall under like the wind category rate
(22:29):
because if something you get outof your breakup is I'm just
detaching from other people's perceptions of me.
I'm so aware now in the aftermath of this, I cannot
control that. And then that ripples into with
a friend or whoever on the Internet, literally, or, you
know, random lady you run into at the grocery store who acts
like you're being rude. You can just kind of like let it
all roll off you like water off the ducks back and.
(22:52):
That's the wind bro. That is the wind twin you can be
if you can let that roll off youlike water off your back yes,
that is that's a win the vibe and.
And that's. Hot that's.
Fucking super sexy. Yeah, that's confidence.
Confidence. Confidence is like, universally
sexy. Well, and that's why and like
(23:15):
not even just confidence in self, but like confidence and
capacity to hold other people's experiences too.
Like I think that's the same, that's the same thing when like,
like when Matt is the hottest tome is when like I'm a total
fucking mess and I'm just like destroyed and melting and doing
my feminine chaos and like crying and he's just fucking
(23:36):
standing there and Daddy, he's just chill.
And he's just like, I see you, baby.
I see you, I see you, and I'm just like.
Why are you so hot right now? No, I totally agree with you.
I totally agree with you. And you know, it works both
ways, right? It's like sexy when you also
show up that way. I'm sure he's he's like, oh,
look at that goddess right there, that goddess queen I'm
(23:56):
marrying. Yeah, no, it's super hot.
I think the the other thing I'm like thinking about, if I think
about the actual work that you and I did, there's this
opportunity in the wreckage and in the rubble to really see and
recognize that this expands. Whatever's happening in your
life is expanding. So far beyond this, like one
(24:17):
relationship, especially in relationship world, I think even
if you like have a rupture at work and like your career
changes all of a sudden or like you move states all of a sudden,
like these big transitions in life, it tends to not care about
time. It collapses time.
And something that happened to you when you were 12 and you
moved across the country and youwent to the first day of school
(24:39):
and you got bullied, right? OK, now you've moved to a new
city and now you're terrified togo out and meet people because
you might get bullied, right? Like there's this opportunity in
the rubble. Like really get to know
yourself. Like really and truly.
Because I kept calling it my emotional basement.
I was like, I'm in this like crusty, dusty, like haunted
basement. And I can, if I choose to, while
(25:02):
I'm down here, go through and with a fine tooth comb, clean
every fucking corner of this I have access to because I may as
well. You don't access the cobweb
spaces in our day-to-day life. Like it takes like grief to
actually go to those places and there's an opportunity to clean
up there. That's such a fucking good
(25:22):
point. Yeah, I think that's often why,
you know, when somebody loses someone important to them, all
of a sudden life just goes and there's clarity because the
grief just, it is razor sharp inmy experience.
If you actually allow, instead of, you know, like dumping
substances on it or getting busyor avoiding the grief,
pretending there's no grief whatever, if you actually allow
(25:43):
that experience to take you on the ride that it's gonna take
you on, I think that's where youget all the Nuggets.
That's where you get all the gold.
That's how you ultimately win. Because I genuinely feel like
one of my biggest wins, and it has nothing to do with Scott.
Ultimately, none of it had anything to do with Scott.
He catalyzed an experience for me.
He played a role in my life thathas been the farther I get away
from it, the more grateful I become for it, the more I'm
(26:03):
like, I needed that. I needed the services he
offered, no matter how painful and fucked up on the surface.
They were important for me. They were valuable for me.
They gave me the keys to so manyhidden treasures within myself,
so many places. I had shoved that part of myself
in a fucking box and said, I can't be that.
I can't do that. I'm like running through the
(26:25):
basement opening all these things.
Pandora's Box, if you will. And through that, I'm becoming
less and less fuckwithable anywhere in my life.
It doesn't really matter what's happening because I'm ultimately
starting to master and weather the weathering of the storm.
You know, when the ocean starts to, you know, turn up and the
(26:47):
waves get crazy and it seems like the boat's gonna tip over.
Even if the boat does tip over, I'm like, I can tread water.
I'll be fine. Like, this will be fine.
This, too, shall pass. I need to be still and allow.
I need to be still and allow. And I got to practice that over
and over and over and over again.
And now I'm started. Now, you know, it's been a rough
(27:07):
road and it's taken a lot of conscious effort and discipline,
honestly, you know, devotion to being myself and loving myself
and, you know, staying committedto my values.
But ultimately I'm actually starting to like reap the
rewards now out in the wild in the jungle, I'm I'm so much more
clear on myself. I'm taking up so much more
(27:27):
space. I'm putting up with way less
fucking bullshit. And you're doing it different.
Yeah, entirely different. And things that used to rattle
me and wreck me and knock me down, now they like, kind of
just tickle. And I'm like, all right, that
wasn't my favorite experience for the finals.
Whatever you know. Yeah, it's like Navy SEAL
training for. Like.
Your emotional competence, I mean, it's so true.
(27:49):
And not in the sense that like, I think this brings up another
really good point. It's like not to make you hard,
right? And I think that's another part
of the win that people perceive that they have to do.
They have to be unaffected. They have to act like it didn't
bother them. I didn't care that much.
I didn't love him anyways. It was, you know, it was my
(28:10):
choice. I wanted it, you know, And I've
been there so many times where, like, I tried to get hard in the
face of it and I tried to convince myself that I wasn't
sad, you know, this is what I wanted.
La, la, la, la, la. And yeah, you know, maybe it is
on some level what you wanted and probably is what you wanted.
However, there is a very big part of you that didn't want it,
(28:31):
and it's very important to honorall of that.
And I think like Liv was saying,you know, letting yourself go to
the basement is so important. And that means fucking crying
your eyes out on your floor, youknow, sleepless nights, feeling
lonely, just like the deep guttural cries at the fucking
(28:53):
all of it, all of all of it. And, you know, if somebody asks
you if you're K, and maybe you don't have to like, go into a
whole rant about how horrible you are.
But like, invitation to be honest, invitation to be like,
yeah, I'm kind of struggling. And this has been really hard
for me, but you know, I'm going to get through it better and
stronger. And I trust that, you know, like
there's something really, reallybeautiful about that level of
vulnerability and honesty and transparency and like letting
(29:17):
yourself be seen for the pain that you're experiencing.
I think a lot of us feel like wehave to cover it up and pretend
like it's not happening. But that's not, it's just not
cute. It really isn't.
It's it feels artificial. It feels fake.
You come off as like untrustworthy when you don't,
when you're not honest about your experiences.
(29:38):
And yeah, there is like a centerpoint to Landon where you don't
have to like, like I said, dive into the extent of your grief
whenever anybody asks you if you're OK 'cause that's like a
different type of wool buddy. Like, OK, we got it, you're not
good. But yeah, I just, I feel like
the biggest part of what was important for me in this breakup
(30:00):
that I actually like really didn't do in any of my other
breakups, was let myself feel all of the pain that I was
feeling. Same.
Absolute fucking. Same.
Yeah. I had never let myself feel
pain, like emotional pain in theway that I allowed myself to
feel pain through this last breakup.
And I think that's a big part ofwhy this last breakup was so
(30:22):
alchemical for me is because there is alchemy and pain and
like without pain Bay philosophywould not exist.
Like going to the depths of yourpain, like you said, it
collapses time, it collapses your identity, it collapses
everything and you get to kind of make choices.
(30:42):
You're at the fucking bottom of the barrel.
It's like what people say when you hit rock bottom, you know,
it's like the only place to go is up.
And there's a lot of truth to that statement.
I mean, like, it's very reductionist to think about it
that way, but that's kind of what we're getting at.
It's like when you let yourself feel all of your pain, now
you're not spending all your energy trying to fight the pain,
and now you can actually make choices on what to do with the
(31:04):
pain. That energy shit you're talking
about there, that is fucking real.
That is one of the biggest Aha'sI had was realizing how much
energy expenditure was going into masking my pain, hiding my
pain, shrinking myself, trying to be a version of myself like
it is. It puts you in debt.
You wake up in fucking debt. Yeah, Every time you look at
(31:26):
somebody in the face and they'relike, how are you?
How are you doing your breakup? And you're like, oh, I'm fine.
It's totally fine. I'm so happy he's out of my
life. That costs you.
'Cause it's a lie. It's a fucking lie.
Yeah, no, that's actually a really, really good point.
And again, it's, I think ultimately the biggest big scary
if I'm like truly, truly lookingat roots for me in my breakup, I
(31:51):
felt so certain of that relationship and so certain of
the version of me that I was. There's just like so much
certainty in my experience of myself, which because the
outcome didn't look the way I perceived the outcome should
look, which was I was going to be with this person forever.
It like really rattled. It rattled me so heavily that at
(32:13):
in my basement there was like a do I know myself at all?
Is anything I perceive literallyanything I perceive about myself
real? Do I know what I want at all?
Is my name Liv? Like it was like literally just
like, how could I have been so certain and so wrong, right.
(32:34):
And then it got to the place, you know, I had to do the freak
out and acknowledge that that was terrifying to me.
Trying to avoid that that was scary was like prolonging
things, making it harder. That was my masking thing was
like not it took me a while to like look that gift horse in the
mouth and be like, I'm terrifiedthat I think I know myself and I
don't fucking know myself at all.
So much of my identity, I have afucking tattooed on my chest
(32:55):
says know thyself and maybe I fucking don't.
That was upending when I was willing to look at that and
allow that to be true. And I let myself feel that all
of that that was really uncomfortable for me and it hurt
like physically hurt. That's when I saw the blank
canvas. That's when I was like, wait,
(33:15):
everything I think I know about myself put me in a very painful
situation, put me in a relationship that was littered
with illusion, put me in jobs, other types of friendships and
relationships that put me in a lot of situations that actually
are not where I want to be or where I want to go.
And I know that because I'm not where I want to be and I'm not
where I want to go right now. I do know that that like that's
(33:36):
clear for me. I don't want to live my life
here in this place. Nothing I've done up to this
point is getting me where I needto go.
Oh fuck, there's opportunity here.
If none of that worked, if those9000 light bulbs didn't work,
maybe there's 1000 more things Icould try and figure it out.
Oh my God, now I have possibility.
(33:57):
Now all I have access to is possibility.
And I've eliminated 34 years of shit. 34 years of choices that
weren't aligned. 34 years of choices that were aligned.
I just need to figure out what foundations are still intact
here, What foundations are trulylive.
And I think that's where you really like when you get into
that emotional basement, that's really what you're doing.
(34:18):
You're finding the parts of you that got lost, forgotten, you
know, fractured off. There's still trauma there,
unfelt feelings, limiting beliefs.
That's really what you're doing is finding.
OK, what is my baseline? I'm in this basement.
But like, what are the dimensions of this basement?
How much space is in here? And am I taking up this space or
am I cleaning? Yeah.
(34:39):
Have I allowed the world to like, shove their shit inside my
basement and I need to clean outwhat's not mine anymore?
And maybe it was serving me at one point and it just doesn't
serve me anymore because I'm, you know, 2 decades older than I
was when I came up with that half cocked idea.
Right. And that's the most beautiful
thing about the whole concept ofknowing myself is to know
(34:59):
thyself, is to know that thyselfwill be in constant evolution
for the entirety of your life. And if you ever get to a point
where you think that you've solidified in the knowing of who
you are in this present moment, to think that that is a
permanent state is to not know thyself because thyself will
always change. And like, that's what knowing
(35:20):
myself really is, is meeting every single new version of you
and getting to know yourself over and over and over and over
again. It's not a state that you get to
that's finite. It is.
AI will always change, and in order to know myself I need to
keep up with what is necessary for that evolution.
(35:41):
Yo, you nailed that. You nailed that shit.
And you know, I got to face my limiting belief there that I
thought that there was going to be a final destination to that
despite, despite my conceptual understanding that it's a
journey. But I have to constantly
remember, oh, the finish line isdeath.
At the end of all of this is just, you're fucking dead.
None of us are getting out of this alive.
(36:02):
It's one of my favorite fucking quotes.
And then that's another beautiful thing about the grief.
And if you have the fucking cojonas, the ovaries, Mama, the
titas, to actually face grief and learn from it and be willing
to dance with the grief to, you know, let it whip you up while
figuring out how to stay rooted and connected, to let it totally
(36:25):
flatten you. And then have the strength to
like push back up against the gravity, whatever the experience
is. You have so much opportunity in
the pain of whatever breakup you're having to get so adept at
holding that that death is like just not even a fucking.
(36:46):
It's a thing that you look at. It's a thing you know is
happening. It calls you into living right
here right now. But it's also not scary to you
because you're allowing versionsof yourself to die constantly.
You know, we experience micro grief all the time, you know,
like little things. We're like, ah, damn, fuck,
that's over. Like, even, OK.
Even if you like, want to go to like a certain restaurant and
you get to the restaurant and it's closed, there's an
(37:07):
experience of grief there, you know, and if you get really good
at just fucking going, little salsa here.
I'm really super into salsa now.So it's on my mind.
I am, yeah. A little salsa with a little bit
of grief here. Oh, I just learned something
about myself. I have a massive attachment to
this fucking restaurant. And I really want burrito.
And that's inane and superficial, but also adding to
(37:28):
your life experience. And it's also true of you.
Absolutely. I feel the need to clarify that
even though she talked about a Mexican restaurant with burritos
that probably has salsa, I'm notinto that kind of salsa.
No salsa dance, Salsa dance, Salsa dancing.
Yeah, no, you said it. That's it.
You got to have fucking to win. To really, truly win.
You going to have cojones, ovaries and tetas.
(37:53):
All of them. Awesome.
Yeah, I love this. I love this.
So you know, anyone going through a breakup right now, or
even if you're kind of like where Millie and I are, where
it's like my friend Mark put it on the tails of the comet, the
tail end of the comet where you're just like really kind of
completing your cycle. I hope that you, I hope that you
(38:15):
hear this episode first and foremost because that means
you're listening to Babe Philosophy.
But I hope what you take from this is that, as terrifying as
it may be, is also equivalent tohow much winnage you have on the
other side for yourself. Not in the face of somebody
else, not in the face of somebody else's validation.
Nobody around you may perceive that you have won, but you will
(38:38):
feel that W within yourself. That's just the bestest feeling.
Sometimes I actually like when Ihave a hater in my face now
because it's like I can, in the face of that contrast, really
feel my center. I can really feel A Oh yeah, you
can say whatever the fuck you want to be right now and I might
not like it. My system might light up.
I might start to sweat a little bit or feel a little anxious,
but I'm not fucking budging. I know who I am.
(38:59):
I abandoned myself before and I'm not fucking doing it ever
fucking again. Thank you, breakup.
Fire drop the mic. Sorry if that sounded terrible.
That probably. Did all edit it out.
All right. Well, thank you.
(39:20):
I feel complete to you. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, so that's our take on how
you want to break up. As per usual, we are avidly
inviting you to comment, like, rate, subscribe, follow us on
Instagram at Instagram, on Instagram on Instagram at Babe
dot Philosophy. We love you so much.
And we'll see you next time Later, babes.
(39:45):
Thank you for listening to Babe Philosophy.
If you enjoyed the show, please like, rate and subscribe
wherever you listen and follow us on Instagram at vayne dot.
Philosophy later, babes.
OK babes, the babe Philosophy grimoire is here.
Traditionally a grimoire is a book of spells and rituals and
alchemy. Ours is for the modern day woman
to connect to her inner philosopher.
It's part journal, part love letter, part deep dive into
everything we wish we had when we were figuring out who the
(00:21):
hell we are. We made this for every woman
who's ever felt too much, not enough, or like she's had to
shrink to fit. It's full of questions, rituals,
and raw truths to help you come back to yourself louder, softer,
Wilder, and more. You.
Download it now at babephilosophy.com and tag us at
Babe dot Philosophy when you're vibing with it.
(00:41):
We just had Doctor Adam Hodgkisson our podcast and learned how
freaking important it is to get your lab values done so you can
understand your biomarkers. I check my biomarkers all the
time. Live is newly inspired to check
her biomarkers. And we want women to be getting
their biomarkers tested so that they can live a better and
healthier freaking life. To order your labs today, go to
(01:03):
algorx.com and use code BABE BABE for 10% off at checkout on
this episode of Babe Philosophy.If you're going to win your
breakup, you need to see yourself as 110% responsible for
your experience. You're not responsible for their
experience. You're not responsible for their
choices, their behavior. You know the bad things that
(01:25):
they did, even the good things that they did.
Those are not your responsibility.
You are totally culpable, totally responsible for how you
experienced that breakup and what you're experiencing in the
face of it as you walk down that.
All of that is on you because your internal experience is
entirely under your control. This is Babe philosophy.
(01:50):
A podcast where questions mattermore than answers, where liminal
spaces are revered, and where magic is practical.
We are your hosts, Mellie Wolf, and live wickedly.
(02:11):
Hello, welcome to Babe Philosophy with Liv and Mehali.
We're talking about winning breakups because winning is
everything. We're going to talk about that.
We are going to talk about that.Welcome back babes.
(02:33):
We are here to talk about breakups and how to win them.
And I'm actually really excited to dive into this topic and this
concept because I think that this is a really good play
between like a higher perspective and like human
fucking experience and this likedesire to just not let that
(02:54):
motherfucker win. So I'm really excited to hear
what you have to say about this and then to see where this goes
and where our Rif takes us. And also like literally just
said this before we hopped on here, but breakup is how this
whole show started. So this feels like a very native
core concept to Bay philosophy, which is like, what the fuck do
(03:15):
you do with breakups and how is that raw material available to
you and what are you going to dowith it?
Yes. So Mama, I think to start, I
really want to just talk about like, when we're talking about
winning, what do we mean when wesay like win the breakup?
What does win mean? Yeah.
I feel like the way that I want to go with this first to like
talk about what I imagine peoplethink and what I have thought in
(03:39):
the past, which is like, you know, date as many people as you
can and try to make sure that your ex knows to like rub it in
their face. You know, be out and about as
much as possible. Like flex on them.
Look really hot. Show up at all the parties that
(04:00):
he might be at so he can see youlooking fine and like you know
that kind of revenge like the. Revenge body thing that Khloe.
Kardashian got into yes and it'snot that I think that any one of
those, as usual, I always take the stance right.
It's not that I think any one ofthose is the wrong route.
(04:20):
I think, as Liv and I always talk about, that's the wrong
fuel. And ultimately the win lies in
cleaning up the fuel and doing the things that feel good to you
because they feel good to you, not because you're trying to
make somebody else jealous. And like, the win is when you
are so full of yourself that youdon't need to flex on them
(04:47):
bitches. Because.
Because. You are just like in your
fucking vibe, you know what I mean?
Like you're feeling yourself andyou don't necessarily like,
yeah, of course it feels good for people to see you in that,
to be witnessed in that. But it doesn't feel like this.
I need him to see, to be validated.
(05:09):
I need him to know that I'm doing better without him.
You know? It's like the win is knowing for
yourself that you're better without him.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
No, I like, yes, absolutely. Say it again for the people in
the back. The win is just.
Well, even as you're talking about this, I'm thinking about
(05:30):
what seems obvious from the outside, but when you're in, it
maybe is a little more nebulous.If you are still reacting to the
need for approval or validation from this person, you're still
wrapped up in them. There's still like this
codependency happening. You're not winning.
Yeah, no, you're stuck. Yeah.
That to me is, I would say stuck.
(05:52):
But if you stay there, like you've lost, like it's not even
just that you didn't win. You've totally lost.
So something that was happening for me and like, I'm still like
getting to the place where like that relationship has left my
body. You know, there's still randomly
like, you know, grief is like weird and it stretches out.
But there's still places where I'll have an experience and then
(06:13):
something emotional comes through and I'm like, oh, that
was something else left from this breakup.
But for me, it was like, and I think I said this to you, I
cannot wait for the day when I haven't thought about him for
such a long period of time that I can't even remember the last
time I thought of him. And the thought that gets me to
realize that is realizing I haven't thought about him.
And I get to message you and go,bitch.
(06:35):
I can't remember the last time Ithought of Scott.
And this morning I realized I hadn't thought of him in a long
time, that he's not taking up space in my experience of life
anymore. And not in this like punitive,
like fuck that guy. Even though I'm feeling that
energy, it's more of like AI moved on.
I let it go. I took what was available to me
(06:56):
in the wreckage and I did something with it.
I rebuilt something. I learned something.
I I took The Dirty fuel, cleanedit up and now it's fueling my
best self and not from a place where I need him to see it.
I mean, in fact, I've blocked him on everything.
My actual lived truth now is like he doesn't get to know.
Like I don't want him to know what I'm doing.
(07:17):
I don't want him to know how good I am right now because he
doesn't get a ticket to that show.
He chose actively that he doesn't get to witness me.
But I was in that place before where I was like there was a
part of me that wanted him to see and wanted the validation
that he was looking and saw whathe did.
Yeah, he wanted to go Miranda Lambert on that hoe and slash
(07:38):
his tires and key his car. I think that's Carrie Underwood.
Is that what it is? Miranda Lambert probably has a
song about it too. I'm not really sure.
But I'm not sure either. Yeah.
I mean, yeah, I feel like the best way for us to kind of
really depict this is to share our story that, like, overlaps
(08:04):
and how we created babe philosophy and how, like, babe
philosophy was really fueled by our breakups in so many ways,
but not in a way at all that hadanything to do with our exes.
It had everything to do with us needing to find something that
was just ours 'cause I think that that's what happens when
(08:28):
you get out of a relationship. And especially if it's like a
really messy, you know, messy relationship, messy breakup,
what will oftentimes happen, AndI would say probably most of the
time this is the case when you have a messy split or a messy
interaction with this, with the person in your relationship.
You're left realizing that you've lost so much of yourself.
(08:52):
You know what I mean? You've lost so much of yourself
through whatever that was. And you maybe because you just
didn't realize, like over time it was gradually progressing,
that you were just like trying to keep the peace and doing
whatever you thought it took to do that, regardless of who you
are and what you need. Or maybe, you know, they kind of
(09:16):
gave you ultimatums that made you feel like you had to do
that. Or maybe, you know, you were
just spending so much time trying to keep the peace in the
relationship that you, like, forgot to tend to yourself.
And you know, I think that, or maybe you think you were tending
to yourself, but you weren't because you were tending to
(09:39):
yourself in the context of somebody else.
Yeah, and that's how I was confusing myself, right?
I just thought about our personal experiences and I was
like, oh, OK, yeah, that is probably what was really
happening for us. So then we didn't even, I think,
realize the extent to which we had lost ourselves until we got
out of those relationships. And then we reflected back and
(10:01):
we were like, oh, shit, I am a shell of myself.
And that's a really scary place to be because 1.
You feel like somebody else is kind of like responsible for
your wholeness. Well, it felt like he took it
from me, right? You took my wholeness.
Right. Yeah.
And then two, it's like, where the fuck do I go from here?
(10:24):
Because who am I? Who am I?
Yeah. What do I like?
Yeah, What do I want? And those places though, are so
potentially powerful because those are the spaces where you
get to build something. And those are the places where
you get to decide what you're gonna build.
And you get to, if you really come with it with like good
(10:45):
clean energy and like intention and desire for connecting to
self, you will create fucking magic in that space.
It is the most uncomfy space. But this is what breakups are
amazing for honestly. Like this is the gift in breakup
(11:06):
is what is the blank canvas experience that you get where
you're just like I can either take this plummet into revenge
mindset, self pity, trying to get this person back and let
this person continue to run my life even though they're not in
my life anymore. But The Who they are in my mind
(11:26):
running around my mind is still controlling me.
Or I can take this blank canvas and paint something beautiful
for myself and you. And I definitely both like, it
wasn't like just one clean version of, you know, it was.
So messy. Yeah, we both had both, right.
(11:46):
Like both of our exes were stillrunning through our minds and we
still navigated that. And that was very challenging.
But we also had so much intention and we had so much
desire to connect to ourselves for ourselves and nobody else.
And we held each other in that and we supported each other in
that. And we like kind of were each
other's spirit animals in that. You know what I mean?
(12:07):
Yes. And that is how we created babe
philosophy and literally, I kid you not, babe philosophy, like
it could have been something. And we were like, let's make
something big and loud and talk shit about our ex's lives.
And they can see it, you know, like, there's like, 'cause that
is at face value what happened, right?
(12:29):
And a lot of people could have looked at us and been like, oh,
these bitches just went through a breakup and they just wanted
to talk shit about their exes. And they're just like trying to
get revenge. But the truth of the matter is
made big philosophy for ourselves.
We had no thought in mine at all.
(12:50):
Like Babe, philosophy was through and through. 100% just a
Melian Live creation sourced from Melian Live's desire to
connect to ourselves and each other and something great.
And it ended up looking very similar to what it would look
like if we had decided we were gonna do something to get back
(13:11):
at our exes. Think about that perspective
you're blowing. Yo it does look like that.
Fuck. Well, there were like, I
remember in the beginning, therewas a lot of times where we
would like go on rants about ourexes and like how we felt
wronged and like shit that happened in the container that
wasn't OK, La La, la, la. And I would oftentimes get this
(13:33):
like kind of I get the scarys because I would be like, oh man,
I don't want people to think that we did this to do this, You
know, like I don't, I don't wantpeople to think that we created
this to get back at our exes, which in a way you could say we
did, but the fuel was clean, right?
It was like, and that's what I ended up landing to every time,
(13:54):
every time I talked myself out of that fear because I was like,
you know what, I know that I'm doing this for me.
I know that this fuel is clean. I know this isn't about my ex.
So like I'm gonna just rest in that and whoever wants to
perceive that I'm doing this to get back at somebody or to get
revenge or to whatever, if there's anybody out there that's
perceiving that, that's a them problem and not a me problem.
(14:15):
I'm, as long as I know the truthof where I'm coming from, that's
all that matters. It doesn't matter what it looks
like. Yeah, no, I'm totally with you.
And actually what you just said right there, I feel like is one
of the most powerful and potent lessons that we took from our
breakups and have been practicing ever since then is
like not worrying about perceptions, not worrying about,
(14:38):
oh, if I do this, then this person's going to feel this way.
And then dedicated to like all the worrying about and the pre
processing of if I make this choice, what are all the
possible outcomes and which ones?
The, you know, the shrinking, which one's the least
disruptive? Which one takes up the least
amount of space? This particular container babe
philosophy is where we really said, fuck that.
We're going to take up all the space.
(14:58):
We're going to be loud. It's going to be hot pink.
What we did, You know, we've done a little bit of a rebrand,
in case anybody's noticed, just in our color palette.
Mellie was like, it's this blackand pink's really giving hot
topics. And I was like, yeah, yeah.
But you know, that's just where we were at the time.
And that's so interesting to me to like look back with that lens
that you've just presented because I was so lost in the, it
(15:21):
was so easy for me, especially at the very beginning of Babe
Philosophy to just get obsessed and to spend so many hours just,
I'm designing this website, I'm building this thing, I have this
idea. I'm like working on all the
different arrangements of the logo because it was a place
where I didn't think about Scott.
I was like when I was in Babe Philosophy, like the breakup
didn't exist. Even in the episodes where we
(15:43):
were talking about it, it felt to me, and I think that may be
where the clean fuel showed up the most in our expression.
And I think that this might be why I wasn't, I didn't have
access to or didn't click for mewhat it might look like outside
of us. We were always, no matter what
we said about our perception of their role, taking
(16:05):
responsibility for ours. So because we were coming from
clean fuel, I remember when I would talk about these things,
yeah, I would say the emotions of like, this wasn't OK.
I didn't like this da, da, da. And also I put myself in those
positions. I did that to myself, which I
think that's probably a staple element of like, if you're going
to win your breakup, you need tosee yourself as 110% responsible
(16:25):
for your experience. You're not responsible for their
experience. You're not responsible for their
choices, their behavior. You know, the bad things that
they did, even the good things that they did, those are not
your responsibility. You are totally culpable,
totally responsible for how you experienced that breakup and
what you're experiencing in the face of it as you walk down
(16:48):
that. All of that is on you because
your internal experience is entirely under your control.
Yep. Yep, 100% yeah.
I'm just having this memory right now where I started babe
philosophy and started painting more and started posting on
Instagram more. And a guy friend reflected to me
(17:09):
like his perception of me through this breakup and he's
like, yeah, you know, like you seem like you're struggling
'cause, you know, and I was like, why do you, why are you
perceiving that? And I mean, not that it was
right or wrong, just like why are you perceiving that?
And he was like, well, you know,you do what, like, you're doing
what like a lot of girls do after a breakup, which is like
(17:32):
get more present on social mediaand on Instagram.
And clearly he was like saying, you know, it's like, for from
his perspective, he perceives that women do this after
breakups because they get attention, they get more
attention and they're feeling the need for attention.
(17:53):
And I remember feeling like so misunderstood.
I remember feeling like so judged.
I remember feeling like so defensive, like what the fuck?
Like yo, you're so misreading me.
Like I am exploring me and my creativity and I'm putting it
out there and I'm not like attention seeking.
(18:15):
I'm not like trying to rub it inanybody's face.
I'm not trying to prove anythingto anybody.
I'm just trying to fucking figure out who the fuck I am and
what the fuck I'm doing now. And like, I'm fucking throwing
spaghetti out a wall. That's what I'm doing.
You know what I mean? Like, and, and it was just so
(18:38):
such an interesting moment for me 'cause I didn't actually have
the awareness at the time that like, I could know my intentions
and like let him have his perception of my intentions.
And I think that's really like where the win is, is like when
you settle in a place of knowingyour intentions and knowing your
(18:59):
desires and knowing your fuel and not needing to prove it to
anybody and recognizing that thepeople who are going to see you
for what it really is are the people that are the ones that
you're going to want to talk to.Yeah, I, that's so interesting.
Again, like, not like now that you're pointing out that that's
(19:21):
a way that, you know, someone could be viewed.
Now I'm like, Oh yeah, I can seewhy someone would view that.
And I also can understand why, you know, a modern man,
especially if he's participatingin online dating, might come to
that conclusion because I've heard that a lot from people,
they're like, oh, these women just want attention.
They don't even want to meet up,blah, blah, blah.
Right. And this is like a little bit of
a sidebar, but could we take like 5 minutes to talk about
(19:41):
like, why is everybody hating onpeople who want attention?
Isn't all of social media getting attention?
Like, OK, what about the dudes who go on there and are like
flexing in their fucking mirror,like all their gym whatever,
and, you know, showing off theircar and their watch and their.
(20:02):
Yeah. I mean, it's like everybody has
their like kosher form of accessing attention, you know
what I mean? Everybody has attention seeking
on some level and everybody has their like socially acceptable
version of how to do that. And so the like socially
unacceptable versions of how to do that, right?
(20:22):
And like this particular friend of mine does like look for
attention, but he looks for it in like dancing and going to the
gym and he likes comments on like how he looks.
But to him that feels socially acceptable.
If he were to post on social media, that's not acceptable.
(20:43):
It's just it's like case by case, everybody has their like,
oh, that doesn't feel right. And that does feel right.
And it's like, OK, great. That's your reality that you're
living in. Yeah, that's like, yeah.
So I'm just like, why are you projecting that social media is
exactly the place to go get attention?
That's what it's for. That's what it's for.
I'm sorry. That just blew my mind a little
bit. I'm like, OK.
(21:05):
And on top of that, it's like when you get into, when you get
into a committed romantic relationship there, unless
you're like on social media for a purpose, of course, you're
posting a little bit less because you're spending more of
your time with somebody else. And now, especially if you were
in an enmeshed relationship likewe both were, we were like up
each other's butts. Yeah, I got a lot of fucking
(21:26):
time and presence back, thank fucking God.
And yeah, I'm using some of it on in social media 'cause I want
some fucking attention. People listen to my ideas, think
about them, get mad at them. I don't care.
But listen like you know. Yeah.
And I mean, the interesting partof that, too, is that this
friend of mine was reflecting this back to me, and I could
(21:48):
tell that like his perception was like, I'm sharing this with
you because I care about you andI love you.
And it's like, it was almost like this I'm worried about you
kind of thing. And it wasn't like he couldn't
even perceive that he was projecting.
That's so frustrating, you know what I mean?
(22:09):
So when it comes to people like that, it's like, OK, like,
you're thank you for helping me clarify the bounds within which
we can relate, you know? Like he's just not the friend
that I go to to be seen or understood because he just
doesn't, you know what I mean? Yeah, no, that's again, like I
think that that does fall under like the wind category rate
(22:29):
because if something you get outof your breakup is I'm just
detaching from other people's perceptions of me.
I'm so aware now in the aftermath of this, I cannot
control that. And then that ripples into with
a friend or whoever on the Internet, literally, or, you
know, random lady you run into at the grocery store who acts
like you're being rude. You can just kind of like let it
all roll off you like water off the ducks back and.
(22:52):
That's the wind bro. That is the wind twin you can be
if you can let that roll off youlike water off your back yes,
that is that's a win the vibe and.
And that's. Hot that's.
Fucking super sexy. Yeah, that's confidence.
Confidence. Confidence is like, universally
sexy. Well, and that's why and like
(23:15):
not even just confidence in self, but like confidence and
capacity to hold other people's experiences too.
Like I think that's the same, that's the same thing when like,
like when Matt is the hottest tome is when like I'm a total
fucking mess and I'm just like destroyed and melting and doing
my feminine chaos and like crying and he's just fucking
(23:36):
standing there and Daddy, he's just chill.
And he's just like, I see you, baby.
I see you, I see you, and I'm just like.
Why are you so hot right now? No, I totally agree with you.
I totally agree with you. And you know, it works both
ways, right? It's like sexy when you also
show up that way. I'm sure he's he's like, oh,
look at that goddess right there, that goddess queen I'm
(23:56):
marrying. Yeah, no, it's super hot.
I think the the other thing I'm like thinking about, if I think
about the actual work that you and I did, there's this
opportunity in the wreckage and in the rubble to really see and
recognize that this expands. Whatever's happening in your
life is expanding. So far beyond this, like one
(24:17):
relationship, especially in relationship world, I think even
if you like have a rupture at work and like your career
changes all of a sudden or like you move states all of a sudden,
like these big transitions in life, it tends to not care about
time. It collapses time.
And something that happened to you when you were 12 and you
moved across the country and youwent to the first day of school
(24:39):
and you got bullied, right? OK, now you've moved to a new
city and now you're terrified togo out and meet people because
you might get bullied, right? Like there's this opportunity in
the rubble. Like really get to know
yourself. Like really and truly.
Because I kept calling it my emotional basement.
I was like, I'm in this like crusty, dusty, like haunted
basement. And I can, if I choose to, while
(25:02):
I'm down here, go through and with a fine tooth comb, clean
every fucking corner of this I have access to because I may as
well. You don't access the cobweb
spaces in our day-to-day life. Like it takes like grief to
actually go to those places and there's an opportunity to clean
up there. That's such a fucking good
(25:22):
point. Yeah, I think that's often why,
you know, when somebody loses someone important to them, all
of a sudden life just goes and there's clarity because the
grief just, it is razor sharp inmy experience.
If you actually allow, instead of, you know, like dumping
substances on it or getting busyor avoiding the grief,
pretending there's no grief whatever, if you actually allow
(25:43):
that experience to take you on the ride that it's gonna take
you on, I think that's where youget all the Nuggets.
That's where you get all the gold.
That's how you ultimately win. Because I genuinely feel like
one of my biggest wins, and it has nothing to do with Scott.
Ultimately, none of it had anything to do with Scott.
He catalyzed an experience for me.
He played a role in my life thathas been the farther I get away
from it, the more grateful I become for it, the more I'm
(26:03):
like, I needed that. I needed the services he
offered, no matter how painful and fucked up on the surface.
They were important for me. They were valuable for me.
They gave me the keys to so manyhidden treasures within myself,
so many places. I had shoved that part of myself
in a fucking box and said, I can't be that.
I can't do that. I'm like running through the
(26:25):
basement opening all these things.
Pandora's Box, if you will. And through that, I'm becoming
less and less fuckwithable anywhere in my life.
It doesn't really matter what's happening because I'm ultimately
starting to master and weather the weathering of the storm.
You know, when the ocean starts to, you know, turn up and the
(26:47):
waves get crazy and it seems like the boat's gonna tip over.
Even if the boat does tip over, I'm like, I can tread water.
I'll be fine. Like, this will be fine.
This, too, shall pass. I need to be still and allow.
I need to be still and allow. And I got to practice that over
and over and over and over again.
And now I'm started. Now, you know, it's been a rough
(27:07):
road and it's taken a lot of conscious effort and discipline,
honestly, you know, devotion to being myself and loving myself
and, you know, staying committedto my values.
But ultimately I'm actually starting to like reap the
rewards now out in the wild in the jungle, I'm I'm so much more
clear on myself. I'm taking up so much more
(27:27):
space. I'm putting up with way less
fucking bullshit. And you're doing it different.
Yeah, entirely different. And things that used to rattle
me and wreck me and knock me down, now they like, kind of
just tickle. And I'm like, all right, that
wasn't my favorite experience for the finals.
Whatever you know. Yeah, it's like Navy SEAL
training for. Like.
Your emotional competence, I mean, it's so true.
(27:49):
And not in the sense that like, I think this brings up another
really good point. It's like not to make you hard,
right? And I think that's another part
of the win that people perceive that they have to do.
They have to be unaffected. They have to act like it didn't
bother them. I didn't care that much.
I didn't love him anyways. It was, you know, it was my
(28:10):
choice. I wanted it, you know, And I've
been there so many times where, like, I tried to get hard in the
face of it and I tried to convince myself that I wasn't
sad, you know, this is what I wanted.
La, la, la, la, la. And yeah, you know, maybe it is
on some level what you wanted and probably is what you wanted.
However, there is a very big part of you that didn't want it,
(28:31):
and it's very important to honorall of that.
And I think like Liv was saying,you know, letting yourself go to
the basement is so important. And that means fucking crying
your eyes out on your floor, youknow, sleepless nights, feeling
lonely, just like the deep guttural cries at the fucking
(28:53):
all of it, all of all of it. And, you know, if somebody asks
you if you're K, and maybe you don't have to like, go into a
whole rant about how horrible you are.
But like, invitation to be honest, invitation to be like,
yeah, I'm kind of struggling. And this has been really hard
for me, but you know, I'm going to get through it better and
stronger. And I trust that, you know, like
there's something really, reallybeautiful about that level of
vulnerability and honesty and transparency and like letting
(29:17):
yourself be seen for the pain that you're experiencing.
I think a lot of us feel like wehave to cover it up and pretend
like it's not happening. But that's not, it's just not
cute. It really isn't.
It's it feels artificial. It feels fake.
You come off as like untrustworthy when you don't,
when you're not honest about your experiences.
(29:38):
And yeah, there is like a centerpoint to Landon where you don't
have to like, like I said, dive into the extent of your grief
whenever anybody asks you if you're OK 'cause that's like a
different type of wool buddy. Like, OK, we got it, you're not
good. But yeah, I just, I feel like
the biggest part of what was important for me in this breakup
(30:00):
that I actually like really didn't do in any of my other
breakups, was let myself feel all of the pain that I was
feeling. Same.
Absolute fucking. Same.
Yeah. I had never let myself feel
pain, like emotional pain in theway that I allowed myself to
feel pain through this last breakup.
And I think that's a big part ofwhy this last breakup was so
(30:22):
alchemical for me is because there is alchemy and pain and
like without pain Bay philosophywould not exist.
Like going to the depths of yourpain, like you said, it
collapses time, it collapses your identity, it collapses
everything and you get to kind of make choices.
(30:42):
You're at the fucking bottom of the barrel.
It's like what people say when you hit rock bottom, you know,
it's like the only place to go is up.
And there's a lot of truth to that statement.
I mean, like, it's very reductionist to think about it
that way, but that's kind of what we're getting at.
It's like when you let yourself feel all of your pain, now
you're not spending all your energy trying to fight the pain,
and now you can actually make choices on what to do with the
(31:04):
pain. That energy shit you're talking
about there, that is fucking real.
That is one of the biggest Aha'sI had was realizing how much
energy expenditure was going into masking my pain, hiding my
pain, shrinking myself, trying to be a version of myself like
it is. It puts you in debt.
You wake up in fucking debt. Yeah, Every time you look at
(31:26):
somebody in the face and they'relike, how are you?
How are you doing your breakup? And you're like, oh, I'm fine.
It's totally fine. I'm so happy he's out of my
life. That costs you.
'Cause it's a lie. It's a fucking lie.
Yeah, no, that's actually a really, really good point.
And again, it's, I think ultimately the biggest big scary
if I'm like truly, truly lookingat roots for me in my breakup, I
(31:51):
felt so certain of that relationship and so certain of
the version of me that I was. There's just like so much
certainty in my experience of myself, which because the
outcome didn't look the way I perceived the outcome should
look, which was I was going to be with this person forever.
It like really rattled. It rattled me so heavily that at
(32:13):
in my basement there was like a do I know myself at all?
Is anything I perceive literallyanything I perceive about myself
real? Do I know what I want at all?
Is my name Liv? Like it was like literally just
like, how could I have been so certain and so wrong, right.
(32:34):
And then it got to the place, you know, I had to do the freak
out and acknowledge that that was terrifying to me.
Trying to avoid that that was scary was like prolonging
things, making it harder. That was my masking thing was
like not it took me a while to like look that gift horse in the
mouth and be like, I'm terrifiedthat I think I know myself and I
don't fucking know myself at all.
So much of my identity, I have afucking tattooed on my chest
(32:55):
says know thyself and maybe I fucking don't.
That was upending when I was willing to look at that and
allow that to be true. And I let myself feel that all
of that that was really uncomfortable for me and it hurt
like physically hurt. That's when I saw the blank
canvas. That's when I was like, wait,
(33:15):
everything I think I know about myself put me in a very painful
situation, put me in a relationship that was littered
with illusion, put me in jobs, other types of friendships and
relationships that put me in a lot of situations that actually
are not where I want to be or where I want to go.
And I know that because I'm not where I want to be and I'm not
where I want to go right now. I do know that that like that's
(33:36):
clear for me. I don't want to live my life
here in this place. Nothing I've done up to this
point is getting me where I needto go.
Oh fuck, there's opportunity here.
If none of that worked, if those9000 light bulbs didn't work,
maybe there's 1000 more things Icould try and figure it out.
Oh my God, now I have possibility.
(33:57):
Now all I have access to is possibility.
And I've eliminated 34 years of shit. 34 years of choices that
weren't aligned. 34 years of choices that were aligned.
I just need to figure out what foundations are still intact
here, What foundations are trulylive.
And I think that's where you really like when you get into
that emotional basement, that's really what you're doing.
(34:18):
You're finding the parts of you that got lost, forgotten, you
know, fractured off. There's still trauma there,
unfelt feelings, limiting beliefs.
That's really what you're doing is finding.
OK, what is my baseline? I'm in this basement.
But like, what are the dimensions of this basement?
How much space is in here? And am I taking up this space or
am I cleaning? Yeah.
(34:39):
Have I allowed the world to like, shove their shit inside my
basement and I need to clean outwhat's not mine anymore?
And maybe it was serving me at one point and it just doesn't
serve me anymore because I'm, you know, 2 decades older than I
was when I came up with that half cocked idea.
Right. And that's the most beautiful
thing about the whole concept ofknowing myself is to know
(34:59):
thyself, is to know that thyselfwill be in constant evolution
for the entirety of your life. And if you ever get to a point
where you think that you've solidified in the knowing of who
you are in this present moment, to think that that is a
permanent state is to not know thyself because thyself will
always change. And like, that's what knowing
(35:20):
myself really is, is meeting every single new version of you
and getting to know yourself over and over and over and over
again. It's not a state that you get to
that's finite. It is.
AI will always change, and in order to know myself I need to
keep up with what is necessary for that evolution.
(35:41):
Yo, you nailed that. You nailed that shit.
And you know, I got to face my limiting belief there that I
thought that there was going to be a final destination to that
despite, despite my conceptual understanding that it's a
journey. But I have to constantly
remember, oh, the finish line isdeath.
At the end of all of this is just, you're fucking dead.
None of us are getting out of this alive.
(36:02):
It's one of my favorite fucking quotes.
And then that's another beautiful thing about the grief.
And if you have the fucking cojonas, the ovaries, Mama, the
titas, to actually face grief and learn from it and be willing
to dance with the grief to, you know, let it whip you up while
figuring out how to stay rooted and connected, to let it totally
(36:25):
flatten you. And then have the strength to
like push back up against the gravity, whatever the experience
is. You have so much opportunity in
the pain of whatever breakup you're having to get so adept at
holding that that death is like just not even a fucking.
(36:46):
It's a thing that you look at. It's a thing you know is
happening. It calls you into living right
here right now. But it's also not scary to you
because you're allowing versionsof yourself to die constantly.
You know, we experience micro grief all the time, you know,
like little things. We're like, ah, damn, fuck,
that's over. Like, even, OK.
Even if you like, want to go to like a certain restaurant and
you get to the restaurant and it's closed, there's an
(37:07):
experience of grief there, you know, and if you get really good
at just fucking going, little salsa here.
I'm really super into salsa now.So it's on my mind.
I am, yeah. A little salsa with a little bit
of grief here. Oh, I just learned something
about myself. I have a massive attachment to
this fucking restaurant. And I really want burrito.
And that's inane and superficial, but also adding to
(37:28):
your life experience. And it's also true of you.
Absolutely. I feel the need to clarify that
even though she talked about a Mexican restaurant with burritos
that probably has salsa, I'm notinto that kind of salsa.
No salsa dance, Salsa dance, Salsa dancing.
Yeah, no, you said it. That's it.
You got to have fucking to win. To really, truly win.
You going to have cojones, ovaries and tetas.
(37:53):
All of them. Awesome.
Yeah, I love this. I love this.
So you know, anyone going through a breakup right now, or
even if you're kind of like where Millie and I are, where
it's like my friend Mark put it on the tails of the comet, the
tail end of the comet where you're just like really kind of
completing your cycle. I hope that you, I hope that you
(38:15):
hear this episode first and foremost because that means
you're listening to Babe Philosophy.
But I hope what you take from this is that, as terrifying as
it may be, is also equivalent tohow much winnage you have on the
other side for yourself. Not in the face of somebody
else, not in the face of somebody else's validation.
Nobody around you may perceive that you have won, but you will
(38:38):
feel that W within yourself. That's just the bestest feeling.
Sometimes I actually like when Ihave a hater in my face now
because it's like I can, in the face of that contrast, really
feel my center. I can really feel A Oh yeah, you
can say whatever the fuck you want to be right now and I might
not like it. My system might light up.
I might start to sweat a little bit or feel a little anxious,
but I'm not fucking budging. I know who I am.
(38:59):
I abandoned myself before and I'm not fucking doing it ever
fucking again. Thank you, breakup.
Fire drop the mic. Sorry if that sounded terrible.
That probably. Did all edit it out.
All right. Well, thank you.
(39:20):
I feel complete to you. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, so that's our take on how
you want to break up. As per usual, we are avidly
inviting you to comment, like, rate, subscribe, follow us on
Instagram at Instagram, on Instagram on Instagram at Babe
dot Philosophy. We love you so much.
And we'll see you next time Later, babes.
(39:45):
Thank you for listening to Babe Philosophy.
If you enjoyed the show, please like, rate and subscribe
wherever you listen and follow us on Instagram at vayne dot.
Philosophy later, babes.
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