July 29, 2025 • 57 mins
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📚 Summary
In this conversation, Annie Bond explores the lessons she learned when she was diagnosed with Stage 4 metastatic breast cancer. She emphasizes the critical importance of listening to health warnings and advice, particularly regarding self-examination for cancer. She challenges the notion that age is a barrier to cancer diagnosis and encourages proactive health measures.
🤝Connect with Annie
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theanniebond
🫀About
Annie Bond is a comedian, content creator, and patient advocate from Austin, TX, with over 100k followers. Since being diagnosed with stage 4 metastatic breast cancer at 26, Annie has used her experience to educate and advocate for a better future for all cancer patients, speaking at hospitals and events across the country. She will celebrate her 10 year diagnosis anniversary later this year! You can find her on all socials @theanniebond
⌛ Chapters
00:00 The Philosophical Question: What Can Death Teach Us About Life?
04:41 Facing Death: Lessons in Living Fully
07:55 The Importance of Presence and Connection
10:56 Redefining Success: Living Beyond the American Dream
13:43 Embracing Vulnerability and Saying No
20:14 The Rat Race of Life
22:35 Facing Death and Embracing Life
25:56 The Journey of Self-Acceptance
30:31 The Power of Inner Child Work
32:09 Finding Meaning Without Facing Death
42:18 The Interplay of Eastern and Western Medicine
46:46 Mental Health in Cancer Treatment
51:16 The Importance of Self-Advocacy
52:21 Living Life as an Adventure
57:07 Outro
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
OK bitch, I fucking stage the crop out of everything.
I did a little dance and I wrote33 times.
I am rich in my journal. Did you make any money?
No. Why don't you try this?
Spiritual Investor Club. OK, yeah, it looks like this is
actually going to make money make sense to my soul.
(00:21):
Exactly, I think money lengths clarity more than vision boards.
Y'all should check out the spiritual investors club.
We just had a dope ass episode with Elizabeth Ralph.
She is so so clear on money. She retired at the age of 39
having everything she needed andshe now teaches this stuff.
(00:44):
And you can join for $17.00 a month and you can get your first
month free with the code babe. Just.
Follow the links in the show notes.
What is up babes? We are super excited.
We have something super special for you that we've been working
on for a long ass time and it iscalled a grimoire, basically a.
(01:04):
Witchy e-book. Yeah, pretty much.
It comes from a long standing tradition of people writing
things down and passing them on.And the idea is that we have
reflection, stories, our own experience, and some rituals in
there for you to really get connected to your just inner
truths and figure out who you are from your own inner
philosophy. Fuck yeah.
(01:25):
Per the Babe Philosophy brand, we are calling your inner
philosopher out. Where can they find it, Mama?
So if you go to babephilosophy.com, right there
on the top, there is a little thing for you to put your name
and your e-mail in. You do that, you confirm your
subscription, and then boom, there she is in your inbox, fall
free. Go get it, babes.
(01:46):
We just had Doctor Adam Hodgkisson our podcast and learned how
freaking important it is to get your lab values done so you can
understand your biomarkers. I check my biomarkers all the
time. Liv is newly inspired to check
her biomarkers and we want womento be getting their biomarkers
tested so that they can live a better and healthier freaking
(02:07):
life. To order your labs today, go to
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Woohoo on this episode of Babe Philosophy.
Stop and listen when someone is telling you something that could
save your life or could change your perspective or even if it's
just they're telling you about their day.
Like try to listen more, but especially to people that are
(02:29):
just trying to warn you. Like hey, you could get cancer.
Just touch your boobs. Touch your boobs a little more.
If I'd been doing that because Iwasn't, I probably would have
felt the lump a lot sooner because it was pretty obvious,
you know? And if somebody tells you you're
too young for cancer, you tell them to shut the fuck up and say
what? Where where is the science in
that? And say, hey, doctor, that's
unscientific. Yeah.
Touch your boobs. That's my biggest.
(02:50):
It's fun. People, like, pay money to do
that. Come on, do it.
Do it to yourself. This is Babe philosophy.
The podcast where questions matter more than answers, where
liminal spaces are revered, and where magic is practical.
We are your hosts, Mellie Wolf, and live wickedly.
(03:19):
Hello, welcome to a Philosophy. It's Liv and Mellie.
Hey. Hey everybody.
We're excited to have another episode of Babe Philosophy.
I'm pretty sure. I say I'm excited every single
time I need to find a new word or a new whatever, but it's just
how I feel. In any case, we have a really
(03:40):
wonderful, hilarious, wise, beautiful guest today named
Annie Bond. And I had the privilege of
seeing her speak at the Know Your Power Retreat, which is
Julia Renee's brand. And I fell absolutely in love
with her and her message and herenergy and her perspectives on
life. They are so refreshing, and
(04:01):
they're also very, very grounded, which is just the
bestest combination ever. So, Annie, before we launch into
the question itself, maybe you can tell our listeners a little
bit about yourself. Yes hello babe philosophy.
I always love a sing song. I was like yes my name is Annie
Bond as you said and I am a comedian.
(04:24):
Originally from Austin, TX, actually just moved back here,
but I was living in LA for a while.
And when I was in LA determined to be a sitcom star, I
surprisingly got diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer that
spread to my liver when I was only 26 years old.
And they were like, hey, you've got like 2 to five years to live
(04:44):
if you're lucky. And I was like, well, that was
not in my plans at all of anything.
And I will celebrate 10 years with metastatic breast cancer
this August. So I've almost doubled my
original life expectancy, which like, what's numbers are silly
anyway? Who needs a number?
(05:06):
But since then, and especially like right around the pandemic,
I had been sharing some of my story, but I started sharing
more and I started being able toreach more people.
And from that I've started doinga lot of speaking events, which
to me feels like the most kismetthing ever cuz I grew up acting
(05:28):
and then I got really into comedy cuz I am a middle child
and I love to make everybody happy and make everybody laugh.
And I was like no, cancer is notfunny like stage 4 cancer.
I can't be like the funny, fun one anymore.
But what I've realized is like all that training has really led
me to be very comfortable and telling my story.
(05:49):
And just the way I communicate is always led by humor.
And I think that makes difficulttopics more digestible.
So I mean, I've gotten to travellike all over the country.
I've written a bunch of articlesand it's really lovely that all
of these things, I went through years of surgeries and
radiations and all kinds of crazy things.
(06:12):
I had to freeze my eggs because I got my ovaries removed.
And I'm just like really grateful to have any type of
platform like you. Thank you guys so much for
having me and being able to share my story more because what
helps me to feel better about everything I've been through and
how difficult the world is for cancer survivors, especially in
(06:35):
this country where Healthcare isso difficult to access, is that
we have each other. And I know that in sharing my
story, you know, I didn't have any family history of breast
cancer. I just had a lump.
And I was told for nine months by doctors, it was nothing to
worry about. And if I hadn't listened to my
gut and like pushed to get an answer, I wouldn't be here today
(06:56):
because they all told me you're too young for cancer, you don't
have a family history. It's probably nothing.
And cancer doesn't listen to those rules.
And that is like the unfortunatereality.
Like I always say, like, yes, hello, I am your walking worst
nightmare. Like I just got cancer out of
nowhere. I was healthy.
I was like a vegetarian, like I was a good person.
I felt like I was doing everything right and I still got
(07:17):
cancer and that is how it works.And especially now that these
numbers with young women are going up and up when it comes to
things like breast cancer, cervical cancer, colon cancer,
we have to start taking people seriously about their health
concerns. And especially women are not
listened to or taken seriously and it cost us our lives and our
(07:38):
well-being. So I'm very lucky to still be
here, to have the quality of life I have, but I am proud of
the progress. Like I think cancer stuff is all
luck, medicine, timing. But what I can take ownership of
and be proud of is my mental health, the person I've become,
(07:59):
and the power that I've found inbeing vulnerable and telling my
story and being able to, like, help people in that way.
It's just really the most wonderful thing in the world out
of what should have been the worst thing in the world, and
also should have made me not be able to sit here today.
So we hate cancer, but we love life.
(08:21):
That would be a really great shirt.
Yeah. Yeah.
I love, I love the. I love that you've really laid
the foundation of where you're coming from and where your story
sits and how you've built a relationship with it is what I
would say, not an identity, a relationship.
And I think that that's a reallyimportant distinguishing factor.
Like you don't walk around saying I'm a cancer survivor.
(08:42):
You're like, hi, I'm Annie Bond,I'm a comedian.
I had this experience in life. Here's what I learned.
I think it's really beautiful. So I'm just going to go ahead
and pose the question so we can kind of start getting into it.
The question we have, as inspired by Annie, is what can
death teach me about life? And that is a big question.
(09:03):
But I, I think, I think I want to start there.
Like if you were going to answerthat question right off the RIP,
what comes up for you? The first thing I think about is
filling out an advanced directive when I was 26 before
my first surgery. So my first surgery was to my
liver because I mean, besides biopsies and stuff, like we had
(09:25):
to take care of the liver first because obviously that is a very
important organ. And to be 26 years old and have
to write a will essentially likethat's what an advance directive
is. Because there was a chance this
is a major surgery where they'recutting into a major organ.
There's just a lot of risk there.
And I had to look at, and I wrote very simple, like my
(09:47):
ex-boyfriend, like at the time, he and I, we had our cats.
And I just wanted to like make sure that he would be treated as
family even though we weren't married.
And that my parents would also like, I'm very lucky to have
wonderful parents. And that, you know, I knew they
would be respectful of everything that I wanted, but I
just wanted to have it written down.
(10:07):
And it really forced me to, like, have to accept very
quickly, more so than just beingtold, you know, that you have
cancer at stage 4. It was looking at that paperwork
and being like, oh, this is like, serious now.
Like, it's actually serious. And I couldn't really talk to my
friends about it because it felttoo heavy.
(10:28):
And then I didn't even really want to talk to my mom about it
because it felt too heavy for her.
And it was that heaviness that created this feeling of like,
feeling like a burden. And then I realized, you know,
in surviving the surgery and, and trying to make everybody
feel better about it, I was like, Oh my goodness, like if I
(10:50):
die, I have to then my name willbe sad forever.
And that made me feel terrible because like I said, I'm a
middle child. I like to be the one to like
break up the fight my siblings are having or like just be the
people pleaser, like be the happy person.
And that I had to break all of that.
(11:10):
And it was really like in ridingthat will and then starting
these surgeries that I was like,there's a really good chance
that I'm not going to be here. And if I can't make like these
last moments that I have happy memories, like that's the only
power I have is to like take allthe sadness.
And when I'm going to bed for surgery, like before the stuff
(11:32):
hits, like make a joke to my momand my ex-boyfriend at the time
or like, leave a funny little note in the morning.
Like there were just things I was always looking to do to
bring joy into the day because Icouldn't stand sitting in the
sadness and sitting in the feeling like a burden and
sitting in the feeling like I'm going to die at any minute.
(11:53):
And I realized that if I only focus on dying, that I'm not
living anymore. And it really just made me like
having to look at it that way made me realize like when I die,
like if it's tomorrow, if it's in a week, if it's in a year, if
it's never, I mean, it will be 1day, but who knows these days.
But I was just like the things that I'm thinking about the most
(12:16):
in these moments are not like graduating college or like all
these things that we think are these checklist items that we
have in our life are like how much money was in my bank
account? Like I wasn't thinking about any
of that. I was thinking about my friends
and my family and like these little moments we'd had together
(12:36):
and how like, the ways they wereshowing up for me.
And I was like, my God, life is just here all the time and we're
constantly worrying about everything else.
But it's like when we're only worrying, we're not living and
we're not appreciating our life.We're not living, we're not
paying attention to it. And if we only focus on like,
(12:57):
what's coming, what's coming, What's bad?
What's somebody telling me there's no life in that?
And like, life really is a collection of small wonderful
moments and like just showing each other how much we care and
like all of that. And I think that facing death at
such a young age really just made me appreciate my life so
(13:20):
much more. Like every.
I'm annoying in the way of like when I'm hanging out with
people, I'm always like, Oh my God, look at this flower over
here. Like we got to go smell it and
like doing all these little things like I, but I thrive on
that stuff now because I just know that like, that is where
the joy is in life because we can't control anything else.
Like we can just control like how we feel about things.
(13:42):
And I just didn't want to die. Sadly.
I didn't live sadly. So I was like, I'm not going to
die in a sad way either. Like I don't care that dying is
sad. Everybody's going to die.
Like I want to live. And so I just started really
focusing on that. And then I had another moment
that was more sad that happened about a year in, not even a
(14:04):
year. And I had one of my best friends
was killed in a car accident. And like the last conversation
we'd had and she was so worried about me and like how I was
doing. But we were also like, talking
about like our future, like dream houses, like what we would
like our craft rooms and this and that.
And then she was gone. And that really taught me like,
(14:25):
so we don't have the time that we think we have, like even more
so than getting cancer did because cancer is weirdly slow
and fast at the same time. But losing somebody in an
instant like that where they don't have a chance to say
goodbye, like I have every chance to say goodbye.
I got to write my wishes down. Like, it really just shifted my
idea about death in general too.And like, made me more grateful
(14:49):
for this horrible dramatic realization I had to have at a
young age. But that happens to people all
the time. Like, life makes us so aware.
And I'm just glad that, like, both of those like, kind of
defining moments when we're thinking about death
specifically, what they really did was just make me accept it
(15:11):
for what it is. That like, yes, it can just
happen or it can be a slow weirdthing that's drawn out, but that
life is still there in between. But like, why do we discount our
lives before we're done living it?
And why And why in the world do we spend so much time worrying
and not enjoying? Which like I have to remind
(15:34):
myself of still all the time. I'm still a really good warrior.
Wow, I'm really is seeing this kind of interesting perspective
that seems so obvious now that you're putting it like on the
table, which is like we are all going to die and we don't know
what our timeline is, right? Which is kind of the
juxtaposition of you having a prognosis of two to five years
(15:58):
and then your friend like no one, no one knew.
She just was gone one day. And I know I also contend to get
focused on the little matrix Y things that I have to keep up
with and all the things that I'mnot doing correct and all the
the laundry, the like never ending To Do List.
Because as soon as you become anadult, the idea that that's ever
(16:21):
ending is freaking over. You know, it ends when you die.
Essentially, even just even justthinking about in our culture,
how we have this kind of inverseway of teaching people to live
where it's like you have to do all of these taskless items
like, like you mentioned, go to college, get married, get a
house, have kids, work for decades, then retire, then you
get to live. And I'm, I, I just wanted to
(16:46):
like really ground what I'm seeing and what you just shared,
which is we don't know how much time we have.
And something that you kept saying on stage was like, we're
all you're going to die anyway. Like you're going to die anyway.
You just kept anchoring that in.So when you wake up in the
morning, what choice are you making?
Are you choosing to live, be present?
(17:08):
You get this day like you're awake, you made it, you made it
to the next day. How are you going to be with
that? How are you going to relate to
it? What are you going to get out of
all these little tiny moments that your life is truly made out
of? And really what we're talking
about is living presently, whichI think we totally rob everybody
of in this system that we live in.
There's no practice of presence.There's no import put on
(17:31):
presence. There's really, I don't even
know that people mention it unless they start to go on a
self discovery journey. They.
Take it to anywhere where it's like, you know, like they think,
oh, if I'm not living every day like it's my last, I'm like, if
that statement, I think it's taken out of context so much
because those of us that like have had to really look at like,
I'm going to die. Not just like people are dying,
(17:53):
like they are different experiences.
But I think we put this pressureon ourselves of being like, live
every day like it's your last. Like you have to get everything
in. And it is more like you're
saying like just being present and like being OK with like this
is the moment. This is your life.
And I also really something thatis maybe that does not fit in at
(18:13):
all to American ideologies, that's for sure.
I don't really believe in the American dream anymore of like
you succeed to get to retirementto then when you get to live
like you were saying. I think that's the worst thing
people can do with their life inmy opinion, which is obviously,
you know, very biased toward getting sick very young.
(18:36):
But I just can't imagine waitinguntil you're in your 60s to do
anything that you've wanted to do And just like living a life
that you're not, like, where youfeel like I'm just going to wait
until this and wait until this. And just having that guarantee
of time. Like, yeah, I wish I had that
kind of relaxedness with time, but I don't.
(18:57):
And it's, it's also very difficult for me now to like
spend too much time doing thingsthat I don't think I'm
interested in or like that aren't worth my energy.
I am much more quick to be like,oh, no, I don't really want to
do that, which is great. Saying no was amazing.
I never knew how to say no untilI thought I was going to die.
(19:18):
And then I was like, actually, no, no, no, no.
There's a lot to do Good. I love that Liv and I have been
talking a lot about like this concept of 10X and just like
what it takes to go like 10X your life, like 10 time, get 10
times wealthier, 10 times more successful, 10 times, you know,
(19:42):
more evolved 10 times, just 10 times.
Like how do you 10X? And like I think that that point
that you're making any is like such that's like the number one
piece of 10X. It's like you have to be able to
say no to everything that isn't the thing.
You have to be able to say no toeverything that isn't the yes.
(20:02):
You have to be able to say no toeverything that isn't what you
are, who you are, what you standfor, what you're with and just
the entirety of you and what youwant in life.
And that is so hard for people to do, especially in this
society And the quote that. You're making me think of, I
think is the Dalai Lama or something, and I'm totally going
(20:23):
to butcher it, but it's something along the lines of
like. He.
You know, he says that man is the most peculiar creature
because man, you know, chases money or or worries about.
He stresses himself out essentially to get money and
(20:43):
then he to to the point where hegets himself sick and then he
spends his money to get himself better and all of this all the
while he never actually takes the time to live his life.
And I just, I see that so much. I do that so often.
(21:05):
I see this like rat race that's all around us as just like a
constant, constant thing. And it's and it's so interesting
because I love what you're saying about not having to like,
you know, it's not like Carpe DMsees the day do everything that
you possibly can to make it yourbest day ever, you know, but
(21:26):
it's like just be with what is. And if there's so much
permission in that, because it'slike you can have a shitty day,
but like be with that shitty day, you know, like you can have
a sad time, but like be with that sad time.
Like you can cry, you can scream, you can yell.
And like all of that is also a part of living.
Like it's not just being happy and go lucky and like making it
(21:48):
all OK all the time. But then it's also not getting
stuck in that. It's also not getting like stuck
in this like endless cycle of like, it's not enough, it's not
enough, it's not good enough. I'm sad, you know, life isn't
what I want it to be. I'm not where I want to be.
Everything is wrong. So I just feel like that's such
a fucking powerful reminder. And there is.
(22:11):
And what I'm hearing you say is basically that like facing death
in the way that you did at such a young age and getting so sick
and having these like, really intensely tragic, like life
confronting moments of not just you being sick, but also your
best friend dying. And like just all of these
opportunities to really just sink into it and say, I've got
(22:36):
to give up it. It had like the opposite effect
on you. It had a 10X effect on you, is
what I'm hearing. Like it made you realize that
like you could actually get bigger and better and brighter
in that space. And I maybe I'm misperceiving,
but that's what I'm hearing you say.
(22:57):
And I'm curious, like if you hadn't had this experience, if
you if your best friend didn't die, if you didn't get cancer or
stage 4 cancer, like do you feellike you would be able to see
that as clearly as you do now? Absolutely not because it took a
lot of work after getting sick to get out of the cycle of guilt
(23:20):
and shame because that is a big thing when you, I mean, even
before I got sick, I had this moment the other day where I, so
I recently broke up with my ex-boyfriend because it was, he
was very like unsure. He's having a midlife crisis
essentially and was basically somebody's not sure if he loves
(23:41):
me and this not. And I had this, it felt like my
body like reacted and like brokeup with him because I just felt
like, and I've had this feeling a lot of times since I've gotten
sick of like my gut has gotten so much stronger.
We're like, I just like there's things when I can't accept
something, I cannot accept it, like I can't make myself do it.
(24:01):
And I feel like before I got sick, I felt very unlovable.
I felt very didn't like my body.I thought, you know, people
think I'm lame or like, if somebody asks, like, do you like
this band? I hadn't heard of the band.
My first response would be like,yeah, yeah, I think I've heard
of them, you know, like that even, like those little type of
(24:24):
things. And I felt like I was ashamed to
be who I was before I got sick. And then once I got sick, I felt
like, oh, I have this different type of shame and guilt because
I feel guilty for being alive when I'm like, meeting people
and then watching them die of the same disease when they're
like, doing everything right too.
(24:45):
And even like in this breakup, it's like, oh, I never realized
how deeply unlovable I felt until I was single with cancer.
To then have to like face that and be like, oh, I've used
cancer as an excuse to tell myself that there's an unlovable
part of me when that's silly. Like I don't love anybody any
less because they have cancer. But I think that getting sick
(25:09):
and facing death like that because again, a lot of us just
assume we're not going to die orwe just like push it aside.
And that's why I think people need to talk more about death
because it's inevitable. And it's not like, yes, of
course it's bad to have your life end and to not get to do
all the things you want to do. But if we don't accept that
death is going to happen, then we don't give ourselves
(25:30):
permission to live. And I think when like I was
trying to be everything for everybody else, of course I felt
ashamed of who I was because I was never stopping to listen to
who I was, to explore who I was.And getting sick really made me
want to get to know myself finally.
(25:51):
And I had a, like, I had a lot of issues with it at first.
Like, I was like, having a lot of shame about eating because I
felt like everyone kept blaming my cancer on my diet.
And so I started blaming my cancer on my diet when really,
I'd been a vegetarian for like, 10 years.
I'd always been very health conscious.
Like, yeah, sure, I drank in college.
(26:12):
Who didn't, like, you know what I mean?
Like there was just anything I could find an excuse for.
Like I specifically remember someone telling me it was
because I ate too much red meat.And I was like, I'm like the
least Texan. Thing about me is I don't like
steak and I never have. And I took that in and now I
look at that and I'm like, how silly of me that I even like,
(26:34):
let that in for a minute to let me feel so much shame and guilt.
But I was doing that so much. And I was nauseous all the time.
But I wouldn't be standing in the grocery store, like trying
to find a ketchup that didn't have sugar in it because someone
told me, if you have this much sugar, you're feeding your
cancer and this and that. And I would just be like crying
looking at ketchup bottles. And I was like, this is not a
way to live, which now I know, like, that was like an eating
(26:56):
disorder is called orthorexia. It's like an obsession with
healthy eating. So I'm like, I had to face a lot
of these types of things very early on and then work through
in therapy. And the most effective thing
that a therapist ever did for mewas have me write down the
things I liked about myself and the things I didn't like about
(27:16):
myself and then read them out loud to myself.
And when I was writing things I liked, I was like struggling
with it and I'm like, whatever. Like I guess I like this about
me or blah, blah. But then when I was writing
things I didn't like, I was having fun.
I was having like a great time, like really digging into myself.
And then when I read them out loud, I was like, Oh my God, I'm
(27:38):
an asshole. Like I'm a bully.
I'm a mean person. I'm like, and something I value
so much about who I am as a human being.
Like the core of who I am is being kind and being loving and
like never being a source of that in anyone's life.
Like the people that I care about, like never being a source
of negativity, always being supportive.
And yet to myself, I was the meanest person ever.
(28:01):
And that really made me shift like everything.
Like now if I like look in the mirror and I say something mean,
I make myself say something nicebefore I leave the mirror.
Like where I used to always be so concerned about like losing
10 lbs. Like, I've kept journals for a
lot of my life and so many of them I'm like, and then when I
lose 10 lbs, like this guy will finally like me or I'll finally
(28:22):
get with this role in the play or whatever.
And guess what? I lost a lot of weight when I
got sick and people were giving me compliments.
I was always pretty thin, but itwas like I'd finally lost that
10 lbs that I thought would makesuch a difference.
And I hated looking at myself inthe mirror.
I felt like I didn't know who I was.
I hated that my clothes fit differently.
I felt sick, like being skinny made me feel sick.
(28:46):
So it's like getting cancer and having to face myself for the
first time because I knew that like, this is your one chance.
Like figure it out. You've only got so much time.
Like, who do you want to be? What do you want to do?
Like, do you really want to hateyourself forever?
And like feel this deep shame and guilt about just being a
human being who's maybe a littleweird.
(29:06):
But like, I really genuinely like, I appreciate my body now.
Like I feel like getting cancer fixed my issues with my body in
some ways and then definitely created some other ones.
But those are more just like, you know, things that happen
with cancer. But I'm just more accepting of
like, myself and my life and my feelings.
(29:27):
And I think that that's been like, the best thing for me is
that I just really try to take shame out of the equation.
Like, I try to recognize when it's happening.
Especially shame, like guilt, I think can be useful.
But I think that shame, it holdseverybody back from living their
life because we're all so ashamed that we're not the CEO
(29:49):
of this job or making this much money or doing whatever we
thought we were going to be doing at this time.
And I just think you can't do anything productive if you're
just sitting around in shame andin just not actually taking time
to instead like genuinely get toknow yourself in a open minded
way like you would for another person.
(30:11):
Like I think the golden rule is actually incorrect.
It says treat other people how you want to be treated, but most
of us treat ourselves like shit.So I think it's a lot more
useful to say, treat other people how you would want
someone you love to be treated, because I hope that people treat
the people they love well. Yeah, yeah.
(30:32):
That's so good. I'm curious.
Yeah, Cuz you, I mean, these arejust such profound lessons.
Like everything you're saying isjust, it's like landing so
deeply and it just feels so resonant and it feels so
meaningful. And you just shared that you're
like, yeah, this. I've like cancer, like fixed.
You use the word fixed like these parts of myself.
(30:53):
It like changed your relationship with yourself.
Like it gave you all of these insights and perspectives and
I'm just really curious what youmight say to somebody cuz it's
like a lot of us out here who don't have cancer and who aren't
facing death right are less. That, yeah.
(31:14):
It's like things that we need tolearn, like these are concepts
that we also need to implement for ourselves.
And, and it's like, you know, wealso don't want to be going out
looking for a, you know, near death experience and like trying
to get diagnosed with cancer so we can find these lessons.
And we also, you know, it's like, but what would you say to
(31:35):
somebody who is, you know, we'relike me.
I'm just like an, I'm just a girl.
I'm just a average Joe. Like trying to be better, trying
to learn, trying to get a betterrelationship with myself, trying
to like connect to these lessonsthat death and looking at death
has taught you and like. What would you?
What would your? Advice be to to her who's like,
(31:59):
I want to learn these things as deeply as Annie did and I don't
really want to and like facing death is not something that's
current in my life right now. Yeah, definitely don't go seek
out near death experiences at all.
Let's be like, really into that like I did.
Repel off the building once. For cancer, but I'm proud I did.
That was terrifying. But no.
(32:20):
So something I feel like, I mean, obviously therapy is very
helpful, but it works. I have learned in years of
therapy, it works better for other people, some people than
others, just because of how we speak and how we're able to
speak about ourselves. But I would say something that's
helped me a lot and just like the concept of like accepting
and getting to know who I am. So like, I'm 36 years old.
(32:41):
I've really, I had a friend who was doing some kind of intense
therapy about like inner child work.
And like the words inner child make you go like you kind of
want to roll your eyes like for a lot of people, but they were
like, just find a picture of yourself that like when you look
at it, you're like, I want to make her proud.
(33:02):
And I found this little picture of myself where I'm like missing
a front tooth and I'm holding a rock up back by the river.
And I just look like I'm like, Iremember I'm probably like 7 or
something in the picture. And I just look at it and I'm
like, that kid was so adventurous and did not care
what people thought of her. Like, maybe wish she could do a
cartwheel so she could be on thecheerleading team.
(33:24):
But like, wasn't carrying like, deep guilt or shame about any of
that. Like she was alive and like
living her life. And of course, it's so much
easier to do that as a kid. But in having that picture and
like allowing myself to have compassion for myself because
that person is a part of me, that helped a lot.
(33:45):
And I think that something I've done, especially over like the
last few years is do things I liked to do as a kid.
Like I love, like, again, like going out and looking at cute
little rocks or like doing crafts that you wanted to do.
Or like if you liked to sing anddance, like just sing and dance
around your house for an hour inthe day.
(34:06):
Like, try to radically accept parts of yourself that you feel
shameful about, as long as they're not like something that
won't hurt someone else, obviously.
But I mean, like the silly, weird shit.
Like get really silly and weird with yourself and just feel
like, what did I like to do before I cared so much about
(34:27):
what everybody else thought about me?
Because that for me was like really a big core of it was why
do I care so much what other people think about me when I
have no control about what anybody else thinks about me?
And it's also none of my business what anybody else
thinks about me because if they're spending so much time
thinking about me, like, do theynot have something better to do
with their lives? Like that says a lot more about
(34:49):
them. So I would definitely like look
at your life, your individual life without comparing it to
anybody else and think to yourself, what did I like to do
at the beginning of my life? Like in these like first, like
however far back you want to look or whatever felt like the
time of your life where you feltvery in tune with yourself or
(35:11):
just very free. Like look at those people, those
versions of yourself. Know that who you are is not
just what's happening right now in your life.
That life is layered. It's all these layers.
If you think about like a pastry, because I love to think
about pastries in general, you know, it's like there's all
these layers in there, and just because this one layer is at the
(35:36):
top, that doesn't mean that all these other layers don't exist
in there. So like, think of yourself as a
freaking pastry and like look atwhat makes it special and what
makes it individual. And like, just say like, yeah,
that's cool. Like I think it's cool.
So it's cool and that's enough and that's good enough.
And to know too, like I would also really challenge people to
(35:59):
do that exercise where you writedown what you like about
yourself and what you don't readit back because that will really
make you face some parts of yourself that maybe you were
like, Nope, this is a little tooreal.
But you got to get real with yourself.
Because I think the problem withdeath is people look at death as
death. And so it's scary, it's bad,
(36:20):
it's dark, it's the end, it's this and that death and life are
the same thing. Like which people talk about how
love and hate are so related. Like you can't hate somebody if
you don't have, if you're not also capable of love, you can't
also be capable of hate. Like they're these two extreme
emotions, but they often are intertwined.
And I think that life and death are like that a lot too.
(36:42):
Like we look at death as its ownthing and life as its own thing
when they're all a part of it. Like our life ends when we die,
but not the life that we lived. Like the people we leave behind,
all of that. Like, I think for example, like
I'm not very religious, but because I've lost so many people
in my life, like I talk to them all the time and that makes me
(37:03):
feel comfort and like so much better to know that like I can
still talk to them. I still get like little signs
from them and things like that. And I think anyone who's lost
somebody can relate to that and like knows that feeling of being
like, I really feel like somebody's here with me right
now. Like that you're sending me the
sign right now. And that is like so much of your
(37:25):
life. Like if you, if you're scared to
think about death, think a lot about your life.
And by that I mean look backwards, look at the life that
you've lived. If you're not scared to think
about death, I would challenge you to write a will and whether
or not you want to get it, you know, official or whatever, just
to write it. Just to think, if I die
tomorrow, how would I want the people I love to be treated in
(37:47):
my death? Like, how would I want to be
remembered? How would I want to be?
Because I don't think it's bad to think about that stuff.
Like I have life insurance, I have a will I update my advance
directive, you know, and we're all so convinced that we have
some cheat code against death and we don't like we're like,
(38:08):
well, I'm young, I'm healthy. Well, I do, I work out, I do
this like I have good karma or whatever.
Like we all think that we know the cheat code, but we don't.
We all die, every single one of us.
And like I was saying at the retreat, it's like, yeah, just
accept it. And I say that so often because
I feel like people are just so scared of the concept.
And you cannot be scared of the concept of your death because
(38:29):
you're going to have to face it at some point.
So why not just start facing it?Because once you face it, you
might be able to give yourself permission to live the life you
actually have wanted to live this whole time that you let
somebody else convince you was silly or stupid or shameful.
Why? And it's usually us, it's
usually us telling ourselves something somebody said once or
(38:50):
replaying it or doing talking about it.
We need to lose this 10 lbs thateverything's going to change
that for the 10 lbs or, you know, stop doing that.
Be friends with yourself. Like that has really helped me
the most is like being a friend to myself and being like, I'm so
interested in my friends. Like I'm so interested.
Like I love looking at their childhood pictures.
I love meeting their parents. I love like, just talking and
(39:14):
talking for hours about like ourlives and the things we've
experienced. And you should treat yourself
that same way. Like be interested in yourself
in a genuine way, because if you're not, how do you expect
anybody else to be? Don't say you know the band if
you don't know the band. Just say you don't know the
band. It's fine.
No one. Will care.
Oh my gosh. Wow, wow, yeah.
(39:37):
That, that was all just so fucking beautiful and spot on
and very practical, which I really appreciate.
And I love that we talk about inner child stuff on the show
all the time and I love that. Very practical, accessible.
Well, cuz you're right there. I mean, I had, I, I did the eye
roll thing when I started therapy and they're like inner
child work, but that the eye roll was less about the word
inner child and more about me rolling my eyes at my inner
(40:01):
child. Like, you know, that divide
there. So that was something to look
at. I'm thinking about.
And everything that you're saying, there's like this very
like obvious shiny thing about you.
And that's your perspective and how you see the world and how
you see death and life and how they interplay and even you
talking about all of these layers and you, you.
(40:24):
From my perspective and my experience of you and the two
times I've gotten to talk to youor witness you, it seems like
you can kind of like see throughthings.
Like you don't, you don't just look at the face value, right?
Like you can kind of see the depth and the breadth and the
width, which I think is something that's maybe there's
like an innate bit of you. But also I think that that comes
from wisdom, right? And you've lived a lot of life
(40:46):
very quickly because of your diagnosis and the journey it's
taken you on. And I'm mentioning this because
we actually did an interview pretty recently with someone
who's studying to be a quantum health doctor.
And the whole idea of quantum health is just really bridging
the divide that exists between Western and Eastern medicine.
So, you know, taking some of these more embodied principles
(41:09):
of like, how are you living? What are your thoughts like in
the morning? Where are you resonating with
shame and guilt? And then bridging that with, you
know, the technology that we have and the more scientific
cause and effect elements that we've learned.
And we had someone comment on that episode very, very upset
with us. And they felt like they felt
(41:30):
like it was very ignorant that quantum, quantum health is fake.
It's not real. I guess there are some like
quantum health doctors, you know, doing things out there,
not like there aren't any Western medicine doctors doing
bad things out there. It's not like you can buy a
degree and then go use it inappropriately.
So I just wanted to get your take on like the interplay
(41:52):
between, I mean, you even named luck as like luck and timing are
a part of it. Access to Healthcare is a part
of it. Am I sitting in the shame?
Am I like super focused on the dying?
I, I would just love to hear from someone who's actually
experienced it and is walking through it.
What what do you feel like were the like crucial aspects of this
(42:13):
journey to keeping you able to even be here right now and have
this conversation? Yeah, I mean, the first time I
went to like a group therapy, like a therapy session, I
hadn't, it had been months sinceI've been diagnosed.
Like I had been just going to the hospital every day, like
doing all these testing, findingout horrible news, watching my
(42:33):
mom cry, like trying to balance being in my ex.
I've only been together like a year at that time and I was
still like, I was doing commercial auditions at the
time. So I was still trying to work
and do everything and be everything.
And I was never able to sit withmy feelings.
Like I remember in the mornings I would wake up and like look in
the mirror and I would just start crying because it was like
(42:53):
every morning I was having this new realization of like, oh God,
I woke up to this life again. Oh my God, it's still here.
And I remember going to like a group therapy session because I
kept having this tunnel vision and I didn't know what was going
on. And it was happening all the
time where like I wouldn't be able to hear or see and I would
(43:15):
just have like tunnel vision. And the only other time it
happened was quite literally when I got diagnosed.
Like when she told me I had breast cancer, I all of a sudden
couldn't hear her anymore. And I like laughed and I said ha
figures, which I thought was weird too.
But what I didn't know that I learned in therapy very quickly
was that was my body's fight or flight.
(43:38):
Like it's an actual adrenaline response in your body.
And I was having panic attacks. There were, I felt no panic.
I just felt like a weird quiet. But those were panic attacks.
And I thought I'd had panic attacks in the past of like, you
know, being anxious about this and feeling overwhelmed.
And those are also panic attacks, but these were totally
(44:00):
different. And it was because I was pushing
everything down because I was sofocused on do what the doctors
tell you, be healthy, be OK. Like, I was eating so healthy
and doing all these things, and I was never allowing myself to
feel my feelings. And I was having a physical
reaction because of it. And that made me realize, like,
(44:22):
oh, my God. Like your brain when you get
diagnosed with cancer is rewiredcompletely from that moment you
hear it, but then everything else in your life is weirdly
saying the same and changing completely at the same time too.
And especially young people withcancer, You have to take care of
(44:43):
your mental health. And the doctors are not going to
tell you that. And I'm a huge believer in
Eastern and Western medicine andthat they need each other to be
successful. Because if we go all Western all
the time, you're not talking about mental health because look
at how we have access to mental health in this country.
It's not great. It's very inaccessible.
(45:04):
It's very expensive. Thankfully for like cancer
patients, there's usually free programs and stuff like this.
But taking that first step to like, go to talk to a therapist
about it and face those emotionsfixed my silent panic attacks.
Like, yeah, I still have momentsof PAD so much anxiety.
Like I struggle a lot with anxiety.
(45:25):
Then I have medications for it, but I also do a lot to stay on
top of it, you know, like I've always had OCD as well.
And like, that's something that cancer definitely made worse in
some ways. But then because of therapy and
work I've done on myself, including like working on the
inner child and all these things, I'm able to look at all
(45:46):
of my feelings and accept all ofmy feelings now.
Even like going through this breakup that just happened in
December, you know, I found out there was infidelity and all the
stuff like after the fact. And it's been very difficult.
But because of cancer and how I've learned to accept all of my
feelings, I've let myself feel throughout it, like let myself
(46:10):
feel anything I need to without shame.
And every time I feel something come up and I start to push it
down, I stop myself because I know that that's going to end
badly. And I would have never been able
to give myself permission for that in this kind of situation.
Like I would have carried so much forward, like shame and
guilt and insecurity and trying to like, you know, be like, what
(46:30):
did I do? Like, blame it all on myself.
And I haven't done that. And I think it's so I'm so proud
of myself because of that. But that is where I think that
people miss a lot because like when you're physically I'll
especially when you're young andyou just want to be better and
you don't know if the medicines are going to work because cancer
is such a tricky thing to treat.And it's all so individual.
(46:55):
You focus so much on your physical health that we very,
very often neglect our mental health.
And it's a very interesting thing to let.
Most people who've survived cancer will tell you that the
worst part is not the treatment.When you're in treatment, you
feel like you have a purpose every day, that you're like,
yeah, you do feel strong sometimes.
You do feel so supported, like there's people everywhere the
(47:17):
minute you finish treatment or when you're in remission, when
the active part of it stops. I've never felt more terrified
that I like wanted to end my life and my entire life than
during that time because I did not know who I was and there was
no support. Of course, I had my like family
and friends, but I didn't know what to ask for.
(47:39):
And so I went to therapy and I went to group therapies and I
surrounded myself with people who understood me and made me
feel understood without having to talk.
So like, that's why like findingcommunity is so important
because it is really hard to talk about things like this.
But the amount of like chaotic loss that I felt in hearing I
didn't have that, like they had gotten all the cancer out.
(48:02):
Like you're doing great. You don't have to come back for
like a month. Like there you go.
And then you'll just be like getting your blood work done and
it's easy peasy. I felt so lost during that time
and it was so confusing because I felt like I was supposed to be
so happy. And, and now in the work that
I've done, like I hear this so often from people and a lot of
cancer patients face that feeling of like this confusing
(48:26):
dichotomy of being like, I've never wanted to be alive more.
And yet I'm so scared that like,I feel like I want to like die
because I, this isn't the life that I chose and I have no
choice anymore. And it's dark and sad instead of
like accepting, like, instead offeeling that acceptance and
allowing myself to feel because that for me was like survivor's
(48:48):
guilt. I had lost friends in that time
that I was getting treatment. I was like, why aren't they
here? Why am I here?
Like I'm a piece of shit compared to them is like how I
would feel. And instead now like I take
their stories, I tell their stories, I take their work they
were doing and I keep doing their work.
And it's not from a place of guilt and shame because it
definitely was at one point. It's a place of pride.
(49:10):
It's that it's because I am so confident and like accepting of
myself that that has created that confidence and that I'm
like, I know what I have to offer.
I'm constantly willing to be told that I'm wrong.
I'm willing to be a bleeding heart at any time.
And I know not everybody is ableto do that.
(49:32):
It doesn't mean they're weak or not strong or not like being a
good cancer advocate. There are some of us who are
just more comfortable talking about these things than others.
And I'm grateful that I am because I've seen first hand,
like when I bring it up, it always helps people.
And so I think that like when you're talking about Eastern and
(49:54):
Western medicine, we always separate them.
But my God, if you don't have them together and something like
cancer, you're not healing because health is so far beyond
the physical body. Like it's not in our minds are
so powerful that like literally you will have physical reactions
when you're not taking care of your mind.
(50:15):
And like, whereas like diet and cancer, people like to try to
relate them so closely. And honestly, at the end of the
day, like I wish that we could relate them that closely because
it would give us a lot more control over it.
And people love to feel in control.
And I understand that. Like, of course you should make
healthy choices to lead a healthy life.
That should be obvious, but it'snot going to prevent you from
having anything bad happened to you ever, or having any health
(50:38):
issues. Some of them just happen
regardless. But we do have control over like
how we feel about it and how we handle things.
And you really have to like takecare of your brain in these
situations because you get so much crappy advice and shame and
(50:58):
accusatory stuff thrown at you all the time.
And I just think that it's really good to like have done
that work on your brain and to face those things with a
qualified professional or with agroup or with whatever.
Like I also really like, there'ssome like the Buddhist sayings
that I think are really nice to like, I love, like the
(51:20):
philosophy of life and all of that.
And something that I've really stuck with recently is I forget
who says this is probably someone cool.
And I'm also going to butcher itterribly, I'm sure.
But it's like a ship looks beautiful in the harbor and is
safe in the harbor, but that's not what ships were built for.
And it's like, what are you going to spend your whole life
(51:41):
just being beautiful and perfectand protected?
Are you going to take a risk andgo on an adventure like that's
kind of like one of my mottos isto live will be an awfully big
adventure because I love fantasymovies and books.
Like I was thinking about like The Goonies and I'm like, you
know, like, where's your, where's your dual treasure map?
(52:03):
Like, where are you going today?Like, what are you going to find
out today? Because life is an adventure and
adventure means taking risks andsometimes fighting pirates.
And that's OK. And sometimes the pirates are in
your mind and you have to fight the pirates of your mind to find
the mermaids, you know, like some kind of something like
that. Oh my God, yes.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
(52:24):
That was beautiful. This conversation has been
beautiful. I feel like I feel like a lot of
this is going to be percolating for me for for a while to come.
Thank you. And I will say to to trust your
gut when it comes to health stuff and pay attention to your
body. Like this is the biggest thing I
will always say is do if you have breasts, which is everyone,
including men, even if you've had top surgery, if you've had
(52:47):
breast implants, you still need to check that area like in your
armpits, in your chest, if you're just in the shower, like
just pay attention to your body.We I feel like people are so
like standoffish about like, well, I'm scared of cancer, so
you don't check. Like I get full body mole checks
once a year. I'm a freckly gal like which is
trendy now. Tell that to my bullies.
(53:08):
Take that. But like pay attention to your
body, pay attention to your mindand never, it's never too late
to change everything in your life and just like follow what
is good for you. But like, please do self checks.
Please do not let doctors tell you things that are not true
'cause like I very much, I love doctors, I trust doctors, I love
science. But I had many doctors fail me.
(53:30):
There weren't all of one gender or any kind.
Like I'd love to be able to justbe like, yeah, male doctors
suck. Like no, I had many female
doctors who are not great for meeither.
Like just not. Doctors are human too.
They can get things wrong if youhave a constant issue, like take
notes, like be your best advocate because it could cost
you your life if you're not. And like that sounds like a high
(53:52):
pressure, but really it's as simple as like, hey, I'm in the
shower. I'm gonna grab my titties like
and make sure there's no like little lumps or like weirdness
in them. Like, great, go get your
freaking pap smear once a year. Like it's, they're simple things
and just listen to people when they tell their stories because
what I'm the most grateful for is to have people like you guys
(54:13):
and everybody that will just listen.
And like, we're so quick to be like, yeah, I know this.
Yeah, I know that. And like respond and like be
performative about it. And we really need to just like,
like stop and listen when someone is telling you something
that could save your life or could change your perspective or
even if it's just they're telling you about their day,
(54:34):
like try to listen more. But especially to people that
are just trying to warn you, like, hey, you could get cancer.
Just touch your boobs. Touch your boobs a little more.
If I'd been doing that because Iwasn't, I probably would have
felt the lump a lot sooner because it was pretty obvious,
you know? And if somebody tells you you're
too young for cancer, you tell them to shut the fuck up and
(54:55):
say, where's the science in that?
You say, hey, doctor, that's unscientific as it is.
Yeah. Touch your boobs.
That's my biggest. It's fun.
People, like, pay money to do that.
Come on, do it. Do it to yourself.
That is such a good fucking point.
People do pay money to do that. Yeah.
Thank you, Thank you, thank you,thank you.
(55:16):
Did you say? It's perfect.
That was like a. Really timely thing.
We're going to have to bleep that out.
There's a little babe philosophylogo on it.
That's incredible. That is.
The perfect way to end. This episode with a titty OK
(55:40):
Annie where can people find you if they just want to connect
with you and they love to this episode.
Yeah, you can find me on TikTok,Instagram.
Everything is at the Annie Bond.So THE Annie Bond, which is not
because I am full of myself. It is because there is another
Annie Bond, but she writes like gardening books or something.
(56:01):
She's like a 80 year old woman. I'm honestly a huge fan that's.
Adorable, yeah. Find me at the Annie Bond.
You can also my e-mail and stuffis all on there.
If you do want me to come speak or something I would love to do
is come to schools and teach young women how to do their self
breast exams and that's something I've been working on
(56:22):
with some people. But yeah if you ever need
anything just go find me on there.
If you've got questions about cancer you can DM me about
those. I'm always happy to answer what
I can in my own experience and expertise.
Or you can find me in your nightmares if you wrong me.
Oh. My God, thank you so much.
(56:44):
Thank you everybody for listening.
Please like, rate, subscribe, share this episode.
This episode is particularly palatable and and important for
literally everyone. So share it because everybody
needs Annie's wisdom. Thank you again later, babes.
Later. Babes.
Touch your boobs, babes. Thank you for listening to Babe
(57:09):
Philosophy. If you enjoy the show, please
like, rate and subscribe wherever you listen and follow
us on Instagram at Babe dot Philosophy later.
Babes.
OK bitch, I fucking stage the crop out of everything.
I did a little dance and I wrote33 times.
I am rich in my journal. Did you make any money?
No. Why don't you try this?
Spiritual Investor Club. OK, yeah, it looks like this is
actually going to make money make sense to my soul.
(00:21):
Exactly, I think money lengths clarity more than vision boards.
Y'all should check out the spiritual investors club.
We just had a dope ass episode with Elizabeth Ralph.
She is so so clear on money. She retired at the age of 39
having everything she needed andshe now teaches this stuff.
(00:44):
And you can join for $17.00 a month and you can get your first
month free with the code babe. Just.
Follow the links in the show notes.
What is up babes? We are super excited.
We have something super special for you that we've been working
on for a long ass time and it iscalled a grimoire, basically a.
(01:04):
Witchy e-book. Yeah, pretty much.
It comes from a long standing tradition of people writing
things down and passing them on.And the idea is that we have
reflection, stories, our own experience, and some rituals in
there for you to really get connected to your just inner
truths and figure out who you are from your own inner
philosophy. Fuck yeah.
(01:25):
Per the Babe Philosophy brand, we are calling your inner
philosopher out. Where can they find it, Mama?
So if you go to babephilosophy.com, right there
on the top, there is a little thing for you to put your name
and your e-mail in. You do that, you confirm your
subscription, and then boom, there she is in your inbox, fall
free. Go get it, babes.
(01:46):
We just had Doctor Adam Hodgkisson our podcast and learned how
freaking important it is to get your lab values done so you can
understand your biomarkers. I check my biomarkers all the
time. Liv is newly inspired to check
her biomarkers and we want womento be getting their biomarkers
tested so that they can live a better and healthier freaking
(02:07):
life. To order your labs today, go to
algorx.com and use code BABE BABE for 10% off a checkout.
Woohoo on this episode of Babe Philosophy.
Stop and listen when someone is telling you something that could
save your life or could change your perspective or even if it's
just they're telling you about their day.
Like try to listen more, but especially to people that are
(02:29):
just trying to warn you. Like hey, you could get cancer.
Just touch your boobs. Touch your boobs a little more.
If I'd been doing that because Iwasn't, I probably would have
felt the lump a lot sooner because it was pretty obvious,
you know? And if somebody tells you you're
too young for cancer, you tell them to shut the fuck up and say
what? Where where is the science in
that? And say, hey, doctor, that's
unscientific. Yeah.
Touch your boobs. That's my biggest.
(02:50):
It's fun. People, like, pay money to do
that. Come on, do it.
Do it to yourself. This is Babe philosophy.
The podcast where questions matter more than answers, where
liminal spaces are revered, and where magic is practical.
We are your hosts, Mellie Wolf, and live wickedly.
(03:19):
Hello, welcome to a Philosophy. It's Liv and Mellie.
Hey. Hey everybody.
We're excited to have another episode of Babe Philosophy.
I'm pretty sure. I say I'm excited every single
time I need to find a new word or a new whatever, but it's just
how I feel. In any case, we have a really
(03:40):
wonderful, hilarious, wise, beautiful guest today named
Annie Bond. And I had the privilege of
seeing her speak at the Know Your Power Retreat, which is
Julia Renee's brand. And I fell absolutely in love
with her and her message and herenergy and her perspectives on
life. They are so refreshing, and
(04:01):
they're also very, very grounded, which is just the
bestest combination ever. So, Annie, before we launch into
the question itself, maybe you can tell our listeners a little
bit about yourself. Yes hello babe philosophy.
I always love a sing song. I was like yes my name is Annie
Bond as you said and I am a comedian.
(04:24):
Originally from Austin, TX, actually just moved back here,
but I was living in LA for a while.
And when I was in LA determined to be a sitcom star, I
surprisingly got diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer that
spread to my liver when I was only 26 years old.
And they were like, hey, you've got like 2 to five years to live
(04:44):
if you're lucky. And I was like, well, that was
not in my plans at all of anything.
And I will celebrate 10 years with metastatic breast cancer
this August. So I've almost doubled my
original life expectancy, which like, what's numbers are silly
anyway? Who needs a number?
(05:06):
But since then, and especially like right around the pandemic,
I had been sharing some of my story, but I started sharing
more and I started being able toreach more people.
And from that I've started doinga lot of speaking events, which
to me feels like the most kismetthing ever cuz I grew up acting
(05:28):
and then I got really into comedy cuz I am a middle child
and I love to make everybody happy and make everybody laugh.
And I was like no, cancer is notfunny like stage 4 cancer.
I can't be like the funny, fun one anymore.
But what I've realized is like all that training has really led
me to be very comfortable and telling my story.
(05:49):
And just the way I communicate is always led by humor.
And I think that makes difficulttopics more digestible.
So I mean, I've gotten to travellike all over the country.
I've written a bunch of articlesand it's really lovely that all
of these things, I went through years of surgeries and
radiations and all kinds of crazy things.
(06:12):
I had to freeze my eggs because I got my ovaries removed.
And I'm just like really grateful to have any type of
platform like you. Thank you guys so much for
having me and being able to share my story more because what
helps me to feel better about everything I've been through and
how difficult the world is for cancer survivors, especially in
(06:35):
this country where Healthcare isso difficult to access, is that
we have each other. And I know that in sharing my
story, you know, I didn't have any family history of breast
cancer. I just had a lump.
And I was told for nine months by doctors, it was nothing to
worry about. And if I hadn't listened to my
gut and like pushed to get an answer, I wouldn't be here today
(06:56):
because they all told me you're too young for cancer, you don't
have a family history. It's probably nothing.
And cancer doesn't listen to those rules.
And that is like the unfortunatereality.
Like I always say, like, yes, hello, I am your walking worst
nightmare. Like I just got cancer out of
nowhere. I was healthy.
I was like a vegetarian, like I was a good person.
I felt like I was doing everything right and I still got
(07:17):
cancer and that is how it works.And especially now that these
numbers with young women are going up and up when it comes to
things like breast cancer, cervical cancer, colon cancer,
we have to start taking people seriously about their health
concerns. And especially women are not
listened to or taken seriously and it cost us our lives and our
(07:38):
well-being. So I'm very lucky to still be
here, to have the quality of life I have, but I am proud of
the progress. Like I think cancer stuff is all
luck, medicine, timing. But what I can take ownership of
and be proud of is my mental health, the person I've become,
(07:59):
and the power that I've found inbeing vulnerable and telling my
story and being able to, like, help people in that way.
It's just really the most wonderful thing in the world out
of what should have been the worst thing in the world, and
also should have made me not be able to sit here today.
So we hate cancer, but we love life.
(08:21):
That would be a really great shirt.
Yeah. Yeah.
I love, I love the. I love that you've really laid
the foundation of where you're coming from and where your story
sits and how you've built a relationship with it is what I
would say, not an identity, a relationship.
And I think that that's a reallyimportant distinguishing factor.
Like you don't walk around saying I'm a cancer survivor.
(08:42):
You're like, hi, I'm Annie Bond,I'm a comedian.
I had this experience in life. Here's what I learned.
I think it's really beautiful. So I'm just going to go ahead
and pose the question so we can kind of start getting into it.
The question we have, as inspired by Annie, is what can
death teach me about life? And that is a big question.
(09:03):
But I, I think, I think I want to start there.
Like if you were going to answerthat question right off the RIP,
what comes up for you? The first thing I think about is
filling out an advanced directive when I was 26 before
my first surgery. So my first surgery was to my
liver because I mean, besides biopsies and stuff, like we had
(09:25):
to take care of the liver first because obviously that is a very
important organ. And to be 26 years old and have
to write a will essentially likethat's what an advance directive
is. Because there was a chance this
is a major surgery where they'recutting into a major organ.
There's just a lot of risk there.
And I had to look at, and I wrote very simple, like my
(09:47):
ex-boyfriend, like at the time, he and I, we had our cats.
And I just wanted to like make sure that he would be treated as
family even though we weren't married.
And that my parents would also like, I'm very lucky to have
wonderful parents. And that, you know, I knew they
would be respectful of everything that I wanted, but I
just wanted to have it written down.
(10:07):
And it really forced me to, like, have to accept very
quickly, more so than just beingtold, you know, that you have
cancer at stage 4. It was looking at that paperwork
and being like, oh, this is like, serious now.
Like, it's actually serious. And I couldn't really talk to my
friends about it because it felttoo heavy.
(10:28):
And then I didn't even really want to talk to my mom about it
because it felt too heavy for her.
And it was that heaviness that created this feeling of like,
feeling like a burden. And then I realized, you know,
in surviving the surgery and, and trying to make everybody
feel better about it, I was like, Oh my goodness, like if I
(10:50):
die, I have to then my name willbe sad forever.
And that made me feel terrible because like I said, I'm a
middle child. I like to be the one to like
break up the fight my siblings are having or like just be the
people pleaser, like be the happy person.
And that I had to break all of that.
(11:10):
And it was really like in ridingthat will and then starting
these surgeries that I was like,there's a really good chance
that I'm not going to be here. And if I can't make like these
last moments that I have happy memories, like that's the only
power I have is to like take allthe sadness.
And when I'm going to bed for surgery, like before the stuff
(11:32):
hits, like make a joke to my momand my ex-boyfriend at the time
or like, leave a funny little note in the morning.
Like there were just things I was always looking to do to
bring joy into the day because Icouldn't stand sitting in the
sadness and sitting in the feeling like a burden and
sitting in the feeling like I'm going to die at any minute.
(11:53):
And I realized that if I only focus on dying, that I'm not
living anymore. And it really just made me like
having to look at it that way made me realize like when I die,
like if it's tomorrow, if it's in a week, if it's in a year, if
it's never, I mean, it will be 1day, but who knows these days.
But I was just like the things that I'm thinking about the most
(12:16):
in these moments are not like graduating college or like all
these things that we think are these checklist items that we
have in our life are like how much money was in my bank
account? Like I wasn't thinking about any
of that. I was thinking about my friends
and my family and like these little moments we'd had together
(12:36):
and how like, the ways they wereshowing up for me.
And I was like, my God, life is just here all the time and we're
constantly worrying about everything else.
But it's like when we're only worrying, we're not living and
we're not appreciating our life.We're not living, we're not
paying attention to it. And if we only focus on like,
(12:57):
what's coming, what's coming, What's bad?
What's somebody telling me there's no life in that?
And like, life really is a collection of small wonderful
moments and like just showing each other how much we care and
like all of that. And I think that facing death at
such a young age really just made me appreciate my life so
(13:20):
much more. Like every.
I'm annoying in the way of like when I'm hanging out with
people, I'm always like, Oh my God, look at this flower over
here. Like we got to go smell it and
like doing all these little things like I, but I thrive on
that stuff now because I just know that like, that is where
the joy is in life because we can't control anything else.
Like we can just control like how we feel about things.
(13:42):
And I just didn't want to die. Sadly.
I didn't live sadly. So I was like, I'm not going to
die in a sad way either. Like I don't care that dying is
sad. Everybody's going to die.
Like I want to live. And so I just started really
focusing on that. And then I had another moment
that was more sad that happened about a year in, not even a
(14:04):
year. And I had one of my best friends
was killed in a car accident. And like the last conversation
we'd had and she was so worried about me and like how I was
doing. But we were also like, talking
about like our future, like dream houses, like what we would
like our craft rooms and this and that.
And then she was gone. And that really taught me like,
(14:25):
so we don't have the time that we think we have, like even more
so than getting cancer did because cancer is weirdly slow
and fast at the same time. But losing somebody in an
instant like that where they don't have a chance to say
goodbye, like I have every chance to say goodbye.
I got to write my wishes down. Like, it really just shifted my
idea about death in general too.And like, made me more grateful
(14:49):
for this horrible dramatic realization I had to have at a
young age. But that happens to people all
the time. Like, life makes us so aware.
And I'm just glad that, like, both of those like, kind of
defining moments when we're thinking about death
specifically, what they really did was just make me accept it
(15:11):
for what it is. That like, yes, it can just
happen or it can be a slow weirdthing that's drawn out, but that
life is still there in between. But like, why do we discount our
lives before we're done living it?
And why And why in the world do we spend so much time worrying
and not enjoying? Which like I have to remind
(15:34):
myself of still all the time. I'm still a really good warrior.
Wow, I'm really is seeing this kind of interesting perspective
that seems so obvious now that you're putting it like on the
table, which is like we are all going to die and we don't know
what our timeline is, right? Which is kind of the
juxtaposition of you having a prognosis of two to five years
(15:58):
and then your friend like no one, no one knew.
She just was gone one day. And I know I also contend to get
focused on the little matrix Y things that I have to keep up
with and all the things that I'mnot doing correct and all the
the laundry, the like never ending To Do List.
Because as soon as you become anadult, the idea that that's ever
(16:21):
ending is freaking over. You know, it ends when you die.
Essentially, even just even justthinking about in our culture,
how we have this kind of inverseway of teaching people to live
where it's like you have to do all of these taskless items
like, like you mentioned, go to college, get married, get a
house, have kids, work for decades, then retire, then you
get to live. And I'm, I, I just wanted to
(16:46):
like really ground what I'm seeing and what you just shared,
which is we don't know how much time we have.
And something that you kept saying on stage was like, we're
all you're going to die anyway. Like you're going to die anyway.
You just kept anchoring that in.So when you wake up in the
morning, what choice are you making?
Are you choosing to live, be present?
(17:08):
You get this day like you're awake, you made it, you made it
to the next day. How are you going to be with
that? How are you going to relate to
it? What are you going to get out of
all these little tiny moments that your life is truly made out
of? And really what we're talking
about is living presently, whichI think we totally rob everybody
of in this system that we live in.
There's no practice of presence.There's no import put on
(17:31):
presence. There's really, I don't even
know that people mention it unless they start to go on a
self discovery journey. They.
Take it to anywhere where it's like, you know, like they think,
oh, if I'm not living every day like it's my last, I'm like, if
that statement, I think it's taken out of context so much
because those of us that like have had to really look at like,
I'm going to die. Not just like people are dying,
(17:53):
like they are different experiences.
But I think we put this pressureon ourselves of being like, live
every day like it's your last. Like you have to get everything
in. And it is more like you're
saying like just being present and like being OK with like this
is the moment. This is your life.
And I also really something thatis maybe that does not fit in at
(18:13):
all to American ideologies, that's for sure.
I don't really believe in the American dream anymore of like
you succeed to get to retirementto then when you get to live
like you were saying. I think that's the worst thing
people can do with their life inmy opinion, which is obviously,
you know, very biased toward getting sick very young.
(18:36):
But I just can't imagine waitinguntil you're in your 60s to do
anything that you've wanted to do And just like living a life
that you're not, like, where youfeel like I'm just going to wait
until this and wait until this. And just having that guarantee
of time. Like, yeah, I wish I had that
kind of relaxedness with time, but I don't.
(18:57):
And it's, it's also very difficult for me now to like
spend too much time doing thingsthat I don't think I'm
interested in or like that aren't worth my energy.
I am much more quick to be like,oh, no, I don't really want to
do that, which is great. Saying no was amazing.
I never knew how to say no untilI thought I was going to die.
(19:18):
And then I was like, actually, no, no, no, no.
There's a lot to do Good. I love that Liv and I have been
talking a lot about like this concept of 10X and just like
what it takes to go like 10X your life, like 10 time, get 10
times wealthier, 10 times more successful, 10 times, you know,
(19:42):
more evolved 10 times, just 10 times.
Like how do you 10X? And like I think that that point
that you're making any is like such that's like the number one
piece of 10X. It's like you have to be able to
say no to everything that isn't the thing.
You have to be able to say no toeverything that isn't the yes.
(20:02):
You have to be able to say no toeverything that isn't what you
are, who you are, what you standfor, what you're with and just
the entirety of you and what youwant in life.
And that is so hard for people to do, especially in this
society And the quote that. You're making me think of, I
think is the Dalai Lama or something, and I'm totally going
(20:23):
to butcher it, but it's something along the lines of
like. He.
You know, he says that man is the most peculiar creature
because man, you know, chases money or or worries about.
He stresses himself out essentially to get money and
(20:43):
then he to to the point where hegets himself sick and then he
spends his money to get himself better and all of this all the
while he never actually takes the time to live his life.
And I just, I see that so much. I do that so often.
(21:05):
I see this like rat race that's all around us as just like a
constant, constant thing. And it's and it's so interesting
because I love what you're saying about not having to like,
you know, it's not like Carpe DMsees the day do everything that
you possibly can to make it yourbest day ever, you know, but
(21:26):
it's like just be with what is. And if there's so much
permission in that, because it'slike you can have a shitty day,
but like be with that shitty day, you know, like you can have
a sad time, but like be with that sad time.
Like you can cry, you can scream, you can yell.
And like all of that is also a part of living.
Like it's not just being happy and go lucky and like making it
(21:48):
all OK all the time. But then it's also not getting
stuck in that. It's also not getting like stuck
in this like endless cycle of like, it's not enough, it's not
enough, it's not good enough. I'm sad, you know, life isn't
what I want it to be. I'm not where I want to be.
Everything is wrong. So I just feel like that's such
a fucking powerful reminder. And there is.
(22:11):
And what I'm hearing you say is basically that like facing death
in the way that you did at such a young age and getting so sick
and having these like, really intensely tragic, like life
confronting moments of not just you being sick, but also your
best friend dying. And like just all of these
opportunities to really just sink into it and say, I've got
(22:36):
to give up it. It had like the opposite effect
on you. It had a 10X effect on you, is
what I'm hearing. Like it made you realize that
like you could actually get bigger and better and brighter
in that space. And I maybe I'm misperceiving,
but that's what I'm hearing you say.
(22:57):
And I'm curious, like if you hadn't had this experience, if
you if your best friend didn't die, if you didn't get cancer or
stage 4 cancer, like do you feellike you would be able to see
that as clearly as you do now? Absolutely not because it took a
lot of work after getting sick to get out of the cycle of guilt
(23:20):
and shame because that is a big thing when you, I mean, even
before I got sick, I had this moment the other day where I, so
I recently broke up with my ex-boyfriend because it was, he
was very like unsure. He's having a midlife crisis
essentially and was basically somebody's not sure if he loves
(23:41):
me and this not. And I had this, it felt like my
body like reacted and like brokeup with him because I just felt
like, and I've had this feeling a lot of times since I've gotten
sick of like my gut has gotten so much stronger.
We're like, I just like there's things when I can't accept
something, I cannot accept it, like I can't make myself do it.
(24:01):
And I feel like before I got sick, I felt very unlovable.
I felt very didn't like my body.I thought, you know, people
think I'm lame or like, if somebody asks, like, do you like
this band? I hadn't heard of the band.
My first response would be like,yeah, yeah, I think I've heard
of them, you know, like that even, like those little type of
(24:24):
things. And I felt like I was ashamed to
be who I was before I got sick. And then once I got sick, I felt
like, oh, I have this different type of shame and guilt because
I feel guilty for being alive when I'm like, meeting people
and then watching them die of the same disease when they're
like, doing everything right too.
(24:45):
And even like in this breakup, it's like, oh, I never realized
how deeply unlovable I felt until I was single with cancer.
To then have to like face that and be like, oh, I've used
cancer as an excuse to tell myself that there's an unlovable
part of me when that's silly. Like I don't love anybody any
less because they have cancer. But I think that getting sick
(25:09):
and facing death like that because again, a lot of us just
assume we're not going to die orwe just like push it aside.
And that's why I think people need to talk more about death
because it's inevitable. And it's not like, yes, of
course it's bad to have your life end and to not get to do
all the things you want to do. But if we don't accept that
death is going to happen, then we don't give ourselves
(25:30):
permission to live. And I think when like I was
trying to be everything for everybody else, of course I felt
ashamed of who I was because I was never stopping to listen to
who I was, to explore who I was.And getting sick really made me
want to get to know myself finally.
(25:51):
And I had a, like, I had a lot of issues with it at first.
Like, I was like, having a lot of shame about eating because I
felt like everyone kept blaming my cancer on my diet.
And so I started blaming my cancer on my diet when really,
I'd been a vegetarian for like, 10 years.
I'd always been very health conscious.
Like, yeah, sure, I drank in college.
(26:12):
Who didn't, like, you know what I mean?
Like there was just anything I could find an excuse for.
Like I specifically remember someone telling me it was
because I ate too much red meat.And I was like, I'm like the
least Texan. Thing about me is I don't like
steak and I never have. And I took that in and now I
look at that and I'm like, how silly of me that I even like,
(26:34):
let that in for a minute to let me feel so much shame and guilt.
But I was doing that so much. And I was nauseous all the time.
But I wouldn't be standing in the grocery store, like trying
to find a ketchup that didn't have sugar in it because someone
told me, if you have this much sugar, you're feeding your
cancer and this and that. And I would just be like crying
looking at ketchup bottles. And I was like, this is not a
way to live, which now I know, like, that was like an eating
(26:56):
disorder is called orthorexia. It's like an obsession with
healthy eating. So I'm like, I had to face a lot
of these types of things very early on and then work through
in therapy. And the most effective thing
that a therapist ever did for mewas have me write down the
things I liked about myself and the things I didn't like about
(27:16):
myself and then read them out loud to myself.
And when I was writing things I liked, I was like struggling
with it and I'm like, whatever. Like I guess I like this about
me or blah, blah. But then when I was writing
things I didn't like, I was having fun.
I was having like a great time, like really digging into myself.
And then when I read them out loud, I was like, Oh my God, I'm
(27:38):
an asshole. Like I'm a bully.
I'm a mean person. I'm like, and something I value
so much about who I am as a human being.
Like the core of who I am is being kind and being loving and
like never being a source of that in anyone's life.
Like the people that I care about, like never being a source
of negativity, always being supportive.
And yet to myself, I was the meanest person ever.
(28:01):
And that really made me shift like everything.
Like now if I like look in the mirror and I say something mean,
I make myself say something nicebefore I leave the mirror.
Like where I used to always be so concerned about like losing
10 lbs. Like, I've kept journals for a
lot of my life and so many of them I'm like, and then when I
lose 10 lbs, like this guy will finally like me or I'll finally
(28:22):
get with this role in the play or whatever.
And guess what? I lost a lot of weight when I
got sick and people were giving me compliments.
I was always pretty thin, but itwas like I'd finally lost that
10 lbs that I thought would makesuch a difference.
And I hated looking at myself inthe mirror.
I felt like I didn't know who I was.
I hated that my clothes fit differently.
I felt sick, like being skinny made me feel sick.
(28:46):
So it's like getting cancer and having to face myself for the
first time because I knew that like, this is your one chance.
Like figure it out. You've only got so much time.
Like, who do you want to be? What do you want to do?
Like, do you really want to hateyourself forever?
And like feel this deep shame and guilt about just being a
human being who's maybe a littleweird.
(29:06):
But like, I really genuinely like, I appreciate my body now.
Like I feel like getting cancer fixed my issues with my body in
some ways and then definitely created some other ones.
But those are more just like, you know, things that happen
with cancer. But I'm just more accepting of
like, myself and my life and my feelings.
(29:27):
And I think that that's been like, the best thing for me is
that I just really try to take shame out of the equation.
Like, I try to recognize when it's happening.
Especially shame, like guilt, I think can be useful.
But I think that shame, it holdseverybody back from living their
life because we're all so ashamed that we're not the CEO
(29:49):
of this job or making this much money or doing whatever we
thought we were going to be doing at this time.
And I just think you can't do anything productive if you're
just sitting around in shame andin just not actually taking time
to instead like genuinely get toknow yourself in a open minded
way like you would for another person.
(30:11):
Like I think the golden rule is actually incorrect.
It says treat other people how you want to be treated, but most
of us treat ourselves like shit.So I think it's a lot more
useful to say, treat other people how you would want
someone you love to be treated, because I hope that people treat
the people they love well. Yeah, yeah.
(30:32):
That's so good. I'm curious.
Yeah, Cuz you, I mean, these arejust such profound lessons.
Like everything you're saying isjust, it's like landing so
deeply and it just feels so resonant and it feels so
meaningful. And you just shared that you're
like, yeah, this. I've like cancer, like fixed.
You use the word fixed like these parts of myself.
(30:53):
It like changed your relationship with yourself.
Like it gave you all of these insights and perspectives and
I'm just really curious what youmight say to somebody cuz it's
like a lot of us out here who don't have cancer and who aren't
facing death right are less. That, yeah.
(31:14):
It's like things that we need tolearn, like these are concepts
that we also need to implement for ourselves.
And, and it's like, you know, wealso don't want to be going out
looking for a, you know, near death experience and like trying
to get diagnosed with cancer so we can find these lessons.
And we also, you know, it's like, but what would you say to
(31:35):
somebody who is, you know, we'relike me.
I'm just like an, I'm just a girl.
I'm just a average Joe. Like trying to be better, trying
to learn, trying to get a betterrelationship with myself, trying
to like connect to these lessonsthat death and looking at death
has taught you and like. What would you?
What would your? Advice be to to her who's like,
(31:59):
I want to learn these things as deeply as Annie did and I don't
really want to and like facing death is not something that's
current in my life right now. Yeah, definitely don't go seek
out near death experiences at all.
Let's be like, really into that like I did.
Repel off the building once. For cancer, but I'm proud I did.
That was terrifying. But no.
(32:20):
So something I feel like, I mean, obviously therapy is very
helpful, but it works. I have learned in years of
therapy, it works better for other people, some people than
others, just because of how we speak and how we're able to
speak about ourselves. But I would say something that's
helped me a lot and just like the concept of like accepting
and getting to know who I am. So like, I'm 36 years old.
(32:41):
I've really, I had a friend who was doing some kind of intense
therapy about like inner child work.
And like the words inner child make you go like you kind of
want to roll your eyes like for a lot of people, but they were
like, just find a picture of yourself that like when you look
at it, you're like, I want to make her proud.
(33:02):
And I found this little picture of myself where I'm like missing
a front tooth and I'm holding a rock up back by the river.
And I just look like I'm like, Iremember I'm probably like 7 or
something in the picture. And I just look at it and I'm
like, that kid was so adventurous and did not care
what people thought of her. Like, maybe wish she could do a
cartwheel so she could be on thecheerleading team.
(33:24):
But like, wasn't carrying like, deep guilt or shame about any of
that. Like she was alive and like
living her life. And of course, it's so much
easier to do that as a kid. But in having that picture and
like allowing myself to have compassion for myself because
that person is a part of me, that helped a lot.
(33:45):
And I think that something I've done, especially over like the
last few years is do things I liked to do as a kid.
Like I love, like, again, like going out and looking at cute
little rocks or like doing crafts that you wanted to do.
Or like if you liked to sing anddance, like just sing and dance
around your house for an hour inthe day.
(34:06):
Like, try to radically accept parts of yourself that you feel
shameful about, as long as they're not like something that
won't hurt someone else, obviously.
But I mean, like the silly, weird shit.
Like get really silly and weird with yourself and just feel
like, what did I like to do before I cared so much about
(34:27):
what everybody else thought about me?
Because that for me was like really a big core of it was why
do I care so much what other people think about me when I
have no control about what anybody else thinks about me?
And it's also none of my business what anybody else
thinks about me because if they're spending so much time
thinking about me, like, do theynot have something better to do
with their lives? Like that says a lot more about
(34:49):
them. So I would definitely like look
at your life, your individual life without comparing it to
anybody else and think to yourself, what did I like to do
at the beginning of my life? Like in these like first, like
however far back you want to look or whatever felt like the
time of your life where you feltvery in tune with yourself or
(35:11):
just very free. Like look at those people, those
versions of yourself. Know that who you are is not
just what's happening right now in your life.
That life is layered. It's all these layers.
If you think about like a pastry, because I love to think
about pastries in general, you know, it's like there's all
these layers in there, and just because this one layer is at the
(35:36):
top, that doesn't mean that all these other layers don't exist
in there. So like, think of yourself as a
freaking pastry and like look atwhat makes it special and what
makes it individual. And like, just say like, yeah,
that's cool. Like I think it's cool.
So it's cool and that's enough and that's good enough.
And to know too, like I would also really challenge people to
(35:59):
do that exercise where you writedown what you like about
yourself and what you don't readit back because that will really
make you face some parts of yourself that maybe you were
like, Nope, this is a little tooreal.
But you got to get real with yourself.
Because I think the problem withdeath is people look at death as
death. And so it's scary, it's bad,
(36:20):
it's dark, it's the end, it's this and that death and life are
the same thing. Like which people talk about how
love and hate are so related. Like you can't hate somebody if
you don't have, if you're not also capable of love, you can't
also be capable of hate. Like they're these two extreme
emotions, but they often are intertwined.
And I think that life and death are like that a lot too.
(36:42):
Like we look at death as its ownthing and life as its own thing
when they're all a part of it. Like our life ends when we die,
but not the life that we lived. Like the people we leave behind,
all of that. Like, I think for example, like
I'm not very religious, but because I've lost so many people
in my life, like I talk to them all the time and that makes me
(37:03):
feel comfort and like so much better to know that like I can
still talk to them. I still get like little signs
from them and things like that. And I think anyone who's lost
somebody can relate to that and like knows that feeling of being
like, I really feel like somebody's here with me right
now. Like that you're sending me the
sign right now. And that is like so much of your
(37:25):
life. Like if you, if you're scared to
think about death, think a lot about your life.
And by that I mean look backwards, look at the life that
you've lived. If you're not scared to think
about death, I would challenge you to write a will and whether
or not you want to get it, you know, official or whatever, just
to write it. Just to think, if I die
tomorrow, how would I want the people I love to be treated in
(37:47):
my death? Like, how would I want to be
remembered? How would I want to be?
Because I don't think it's bad to think about that stuff.
Like I have life insurance, I have a will I update my advance
directive, you know, and we're all so convinced that we have
some cheat code against death and we don't like we're like,
(38:08):
well, I'm young, I'm healthy. Well, I do, I work out, I do
this like I have good karma or whatever.
Like we all think that we know the cheat code, but we don't.
We all die, every single one of us.
And like I was saying at the retreat, it's like, yeah, just
accept it. And I say that so often because
I feel like people are just so scared of the concept.
And you cannot be scared of the concept of your death because
(38:29):
you're going to have to face it at some point.
So why not just start facing it?Because once you face it, you
might be able to give yourself permission to live the life you
actually have wanted to live this whole time that you let
somebody else convince you was silly or stupid or shameful.
Why? And it's usually us, it's
usually us telling ourselves something somebody said once or
(38:50):
replaying it or doing talking about it.
We need to lose this 10 lbs thateverything's going to change
that for the 10 lbs or, you know, stop doing that.
Be friends with yourself. Like that has really helped me
the most is like being a friend to myself and being like, I'm so
interested in my friends. Like I'm so interested.
Like I love looking at their childhood pictures.
I love meeting their parents. I love like, just talking and
(39:14):
talking for hours about like ourlives and the things we've
experienced. And you should treat yourself
that same way. Like be interested in yourself
in a genuine way, because if you're not, how do you expect
anybody else to be? Don't say you know the band if
you don't know the band. Just say you don't know the
band. It's fine.
No one. Will care.
Oh my gosh. Wow, wow, yeah.
(39:37):
That, that was all just so fucking beautiful and spot on
and very practical, which I really appreciate.
And I love that we talk about inner child stuff on the show
all the time and I love that. Very practical, accessible.
Well, cuz you're right there. I mean, I had, I, I did the eye
roll thing when I started therapy and they're like inner
child work, but that the eye roll was less about the word
inner child and more about me rolling my eyes at my inner
(40:01):
child. Like, you know, that divide
there. So that was something to look
at. I'm thinking about.
And everything that you're saying, there's like this very
like obvious shiny thing about you.
And that's your perspective and how you see the world and how
you see death and life and how they interplay and even you
talking about all of these layers and you, you.
(40:24):
From my perspective and my experience of you and the two
times I've gotten to talk to youor witness you, it seems like
you can kind of like see throughthings.
Like you don't, you don't just look at the face value, right?
Like you can kind of see the depth and the breadth and the
width, which I think is something that's maybe there's
like an innate bit of you. But also I think that that comes
from wisdom, right? And you've lived a lot of life
(40:46):
very quickly because of your diagnosis and the journey it's
taken you on. And I'm mentioning this because
we actually did an interview pretty recently with someone
who's studying to be a quantum health doctor.
And the whole idea of quantum health is just really bridging
the divide that exists between Western and Eastern medicine.
So, you know, taking some of these more embodied principles
(41:09):
of like, how are you living? What are your thoughts like in
the morning? Where are you resonating with
shame and guilt? And then bridging that with, you
know, the technology that we have and the more scientific
cause and effect elements that we've learned.
And we had someone comment on that episode very, very upset
with us. And they felt like they felt
(41:30):
like it was very ignorant that quantum, quantum health is fake.
It's not real. I guess there are some like
quantum health doctors, you know, doing things out there,
not like there aren't any Western medicine doctors doing
bad things out there. It's not like you can buy a
degree and then go use it inappropriately.
So I just wanted to get your take on like the interplay
(41:52):
between, I mean, you even named luck as like luck and timing are
a part of it. Access to Healthcare is a part
of it. Am I sitting in the shame?
Am I like super focused on the dying?
I, I would just love to hear from someone who's actually
experienced it and is walking through it.
What what do you feel like were the like crucial aspects of this
(42:13):
journey to keeping you able to even be here right now and have
this conversation? Yeah, I mean, the first time I
went to like a group therapy, like a therapy session, I
hadn't, it had been months sinceI've been diagnosed.
Like I had been just going to the hospital every day, like
doing all these testing, findingout horrible news, watching my
(42:33):
mom cry, like trying to balance being in my ex.
I've only been together like a year at that time and I was
still like, I was doing commercial auditions at the
time. So I was still trying to work
and do everything and be everything.
And I was never able to sit withmy feelings.
Like I remember in the mornings I would wake up and like look in
the mirror and I would just start crying because it was like
(42:53):
every morning I was having this new realization of like, oh God,
I woke up to this life again. Oh my God, it's still here.
And I remember going to like a group therapy session because I
kept having this tunnel vision and I didn't know what was going
on. And it was happening all the
time where like I wouldn't be able to hear or see and I would
(43:15):
just have like tunnel vision. And the only other time it
happened was quite literally when I got diagnosed.
Like when she told me I had breast cancer, I all of a sudden
couldn't hear her anymore. And I like laughed and I said ha
figures, which I thought was weird too.
But what I didn't know that I learned in therapy very quickly
was that was my body's fight or flight.
(43:38):
Like it's an actual adrenaline response in your body.
And I was having panic attacks. There were, I felt no panic.
I just felt like a weird quiet. But those were panic attacks.
And I thought I'd had panic attacks in the past of like, you
know, being anxious about this and feeling overwhelmed.
And those are also panic attacks, but these were totally
(44:00):
different. And it was because I was pushing
everything down because I was sofocused on do what the doctors
tell you, be healthy, be OK. Like, I was eating so healthy
and doing all these things, and I was never allowing myself to
feel my feelings. And I was having a physical
reaction because of it. And that made me realize, like,
(44:22):
oh, my God. Like your brain when you get
diagnosed with cancer is rewiredcompletely from that moment you
hear it, but then everything else in your life is weirdly
saying the same and changing completely at the same time too.
And especially young people withcancer, You have to take care of
(44:43):
your mental health. And the doctors are not going to
tell you that. And I'm a huge believer in
Eastern and Western medicine andthat they need each other to be
successful. Because if we go all Western all
the time, you're not talking about mental health because look
at how we have access to mental health in this country.
It's not great. It's very inaccessible.
(45:04):
It's very expensive. Thankfully for like cancer
patients, there's usually free programs and stuff like this.
But taking that first step to like, go to talk to a therapist
about it and face those emotionsfixed my silent panic attacks.
Like, yeah, I still have momentsof PAD so much anxiety.
Like I struggle a lot with anxiety.
(45:25):
Then I have medications for it, but I also do a lot to stay on
top of it, you know, like I've always had OCD as well.
And like, that's something that cancer definitely made worse in
some ways. But then because of therapy and
work I've done on myself, including like working on the
inner child and all these things, I'm able to look at all
(45:46):
of my feelings and accept all ofmy feelings now.
Even like going through this breakup that just happened in
December, you know, I found out there was infidelity and all the
stuff like after the fact. And it's been very difficult.
But because of cancer and how I've learned to accept all of my
feelings, I've let myself feel throughout it, like let myself
(46:10):
feel anything I need to without shame.
And every time I feel something come up and I start to push it
down, I stop myself because I know that that's going to end
badly. And I would have never been able
to give myself permission for that in this kind of situation.
Like I would have carried so much forward, like shame and
guilt and insecurity and trying to like, you know, be like, what
(46:30):
did I do? Like, blame it all on myself.
And I haven't done that. And I think it's so I'm so proud
of myself because of that. But that is where I think that
people miss a lot because like when you're physically I'll
especially when you're young andyou just want to be better and
you don't know if the medicines are going to work because cancer
is such a tricky thing to treat.And it's all so individual.
(46:55):
You focus so much on your physical health that we very,
very often neglect our mental health.
And it's a very interesting thing to let.
Most people who've survived cancer will tell you that the
worst part is not the treatment.When you're in treatment, you
feel like you have a purpose every day, that you're like,
yeah, you do feel strong sometimes.
You do feel so supported, like there's people everywhere the
(47:17):
minute you finish treatment or when you're in remission, when
the active part of it stops. I've never felt more terrified
that I like wanted to end my life and my entire life than
during that time because I did not know who I was and there was
no support. Of course, I had my like family
and friends, but I didn't know what to ask for.
(47:39):
And so I went to therapy and I went to group therapies and I
surrounded myself with people who understood me and made me
feel understood without having to talk.
So like, that's why like findingcommunity is so important
because it is really hard to talk about things like this.
But the amount of like chaotic loss that I felt in hearing I
didn't have that, like they had gotten all the cancer out.
(48:02):
Like you're doing great. You don't have to come back for
like a month. Like there you go.
And then you'll just be like getting your blood work done and
it's easy peasy. I felt so lost during that time
and it was so confusing because I felt like I was supposed to be
so happy. And, and now in the work that
I've done, like I hear this so often from people and a lot of
cancer patients face that feeling of like this confusing
(48:26):
dichotomy of being like, I've never wanted to be alive more.
And yet I'm so scared that like,I feel like I want to like die
because I, this isn't the life that I chose and I have no
choice anymore. And it's dark and sad instead of
like accepting, like, instead offeeling that acceptance and
allowing myself to feel because that for me was like survivor's
(48:48):
guilt. I had lost friends in that time
that I was getting treatment. I was like, why aren't they
here? Why am I here?
Like I'm a piece of shit compared to them is like how I
would feel. And instead now like I take
their stories, I tell their stories, I take their work they
were doing and I keep doing their work.
And it's not from a place of guilt and shame because it
definitely was at one point. It's a place of pride.
(49:10):
It's that it's because I am so confident and like accepting of
myself that that has created that confidence and that I'm
like, I know what I have to offer.
I'm constantly willing to be told that I'm wrong.
I'm willing to be a bleeding heart at any time.
And I know not everybody is ableto do that.
(49:32):
It doesn't mean they're weak or not strong or not like being a
good cancer advocate. There are some of us who are
just more comfortable talking about these things than others.
And I'm grateful that I am because I've seen first hand,
like when I bring it up, it always helps people.
And so I think that like when you're talking about Eastern and
(49:54):
Western medicine, we always separate them.
But my God, if you don't have them together and something like
cancer, you're not healing because health is so far beyond
the physical body. Like it's not in our minds are
so powerful that like literally you will have physical reactions
when you're not taking care of your mind.
(50:15):
And like, whereas like diet and cancer, people like to try to
relate them so closely. And honestly, at the end of the
day, like I wish that we could relate them that closely because
it would give us a lot more control over it.
And people love to feel in control.
And I understand that. Like, of course you should make
healthy choices to lead a healthy life.
That should be obvious, but it'snot going to prevent you from
having anything bad happened to you ever, or having any health
(50:38):
issues. Some of them just happen
regardless. But we do have control over like
how we feel about it and how we handle things.
And you really have to like takecare of your brain in these
situations because you get so much crappy advice and shame and
(50:58):
accusatory stuff thrown at you all the time.
And I just think that it's really good to like have done
that work on your brain and to face those things with a
qualified professional or with agroup or with whatever.
Like I also really like, there'ssome like the Buddhist sayings
that I think are really nice to like, I love, like the
(51:20):
philosophy of life and all of that.
And something that I've really stuck with recently is I forget
who says this is probably someone cool.
And I'm also going to butcher itterribly, I'm sure.
But it's like a ship looks beautiful in the harbor and is
safe in the harbor, but that's not what ships were built for.
And it's like, what are you going to spend your whole life
(51:41):
just being beautiful and perfectand protected?
Are you going to take a risk andgo on an adventure like that's
kind of like one of my mottos isto live will be an awfully big
adventure because I love fantasymovies and books.
Like I was thinking about like The Goonies and I'm like, you
know, like, where's your, where's your dual treasure map?
(52:03):
Like, where are you going today?Like, what are you going to find
out today? Because life is an adventure and
adventure means taking risks andsometimes fighting pirates.
And that's OK. And sometimes the pirates are in
your mind and you have to fight the pirates of your mind to find
the mermaids, you know, like some kind of something like
that. Oh my God, yes.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
(52:24):
That was beautiful. This conversation has been
beautiful. I feel like I feel like a lot of
this is going to be percolating for me for for a while to come.
Thank you. And I will say to to trust your
gut when it comes to health stuff and pay attention to your
body. Like this is the biggest thing I
will always say is do if you have breasts, which is everyone,
including men, even if you've had top surgery, if you've had
(52:47):
breast implants, you still need to check that area like in your
armpits, in your chest, if you're just in the shower, like
just pay attention to your body.We I feel like people are so
like standoffish about like, well, I'm scared of cancer, so
you don't check. Like I get full body mole checks
once a year. I'm a freckly gal like which is
trendy now. Tell that to my bullies.
(53:08):
Take that. But like pay attention to your
body, pay attention to your mindand never, it's never too late
to change everything in your life and just like follow what
is good for you. But like, please do self checks.
Please do not let doctors tell you things that are not true
'cause like I very much, I love doctors, I trust doctors, I love
science. But I had many doctors fail me.
(53:30):
There weren't all of one gender or any kind.
Like I'd love to be able to justbe like, yeah, male doctors
suck. Like no, I had many female
doctors who are not great for meeither.
Like just not. Doctors are human too.
They can get things wrong if youhave a constant issue, like take
notes, like be your best advocate because it could cost
you your life if you're not. And like that sounds like a high
(53:52):
pressure, but really it's as simple as like, hey, I'm in the
shower. I'm gonna grab my titties like
and make sure there's no like little lumps or like weirdness
in them. Like, great, go get your
freaking pap smear once a year. Like it's, they're simple things
and just listen to people when they tell their stories because
what I'm the most grateful for is to have people like you guys
(54:13):
and everybody that will just listen.
And like, we're so quick to be like, yeah, I know this.
Yeah, I know that. And like respond and like be
performative about it. And we really need to just like,
like stop and listen when someone is telling you something
that could save your life or could change your perspective or
even if it's just they're telling you about their day,
(54:34):
like try to listen more. But especially to people that
are just trying to warn you, like, hey, you could get cancer.
Just touch your boobs. Touch your boobs a little more.
If I'd been doing that because Iwasn't, I probably would have
felt the lump a lot sooner because it was pretty obvious,
you know? And if somebody tells you you're
too young for cancer, you tell them to shut the fuck up and
(54:55):
say, where's the science in that?
You say, hey, doctor, that's unscientific as it is.
Yeah. Touch your boobs.
That's my biggest. It's fun.
People, like, pay money to do that.
Come on, do it. Do it to yourself.
That is such a good fucking point.
People do pay money to do that. Yeah.
Thank you, Thank you, thank you,thank you.
(55:16):
Did you say? It's perfect.
That was like a. Really timely thing.
We're going to have to bleep that out.
There's a little babe philosophylogo on it.
That's incredible. That is.
The perfect way to end. This episode with a titty OK
(55:40):
Annie where can people find you if they just want to connect
with you and they love to this episode.
Yeah, you can find me on TikTok,Instagram.
Everything is at the Annie Bond.So THE Annie Bond, which is not
because I am full of myself. It is because there is another
Annie Bond, but she writes like gardening books or something.
(56:01):
She's like a 80 year old woman. I'm honestly a huge fan that's.
Adorable, yeah. Find me at the Annie Bond.
You can also my e-mail and stuffis all on there.
If you do want me to come speak or something I would love to do
is come to schools and teach young women how to do their self
breast exams and that's something I've been working on
(56:22):
with some people. But yeah if you ever need
anything just go find me on there.
If you've got questions about cancer you can DM me about
those. I'm always happy to answer what
I can in my own experience and expertise.
Or you can find me in your nightmares if you wrong me.
Oh. My God, thank you so much.
(56:44):
Thank you everybody for listening.
Please like, rate, subscribe, share this episode.
This episode is particularly palatable and and important for
literally everyone. So share it because everybody
needs Annie's wisdom. Thank you again later, babes.
Later. Babes.
Touch your boobs, babes. Thank you for listening to Babe
(57:09):
Philosophy. If you enjoy the show, please
like, rate and subscribe wherever you listen and follow
us on Instagram at Babe dot Philosophy later.
Babes.
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