What is femininity? with Kate Shay

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📚 Summary

n this conversation, Katelyn Shay shares her transformative journey of self-discovery and reclamation of femininity after years of conforming to societal standards. She discusses her decision to explant her breast implants and shave her head, exploring the deeper implications of femininity, societal pressures, and personal empowerment. The dialogue emphasizes the importance of understanding one's own relationship with femininity and the courage it takes to break free from societal norms.

🤝Connect with Kate

Tattoo Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/sondertattoocoPersonal Instagram: ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/iamkateshay

🫀About Kate

Why is a bio so hard? 😂

🤓 Takeaways

• Katelyn's journey began with a desire to reclaim her femininity.
• She became a mother at a young age, impacting her self-identity.
• The decision to explant and shave her head was a radical act of self-discovery.
• Societal norms often dictate women's perceptions of beauty and femininity.
• Katelyn's upbringing in a religious context shaped her views on femininity.
• The conversation highlights the importance of self-acceptance and confidence.
• Women can express their femininity in diverse ways, free from societal judgment.
• Understanding one's motivations behind body modifications is crucial.
• The impact of relationships during personal transformation can be profound.
• Empowerment comes from embracing one's authentic self.

⌛ Chapters

00:00 Babe Philosophy Offers01:22 Introduction to Femininity04:05 Kate's Journey of Self-Discovery06:58 The Impact of Upbringing on Femininity11:05 Reclaiming Identity: Shaving Head and Explanting13:18 The Aftermath of Transformation17:36 Navigating Relationships Post-Transformation23:01 The Collective Struggle of Women32:38 Empowerment and Reclamation of Femininity39:42 Exploring Femininity and Personal Choices42:43 The Impact of Societal Norms on Body Image46:41 Convenience vs. Authenticity in Self-Expression50:24 The Illusion of Confidence and Femininity57:01 Embracing Individual Journeys in Femininity01:02:31 Redefining Femininity Through Self-Acceptance01:12:49 Outro

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(Show notes and captions are AI-assisted. All other content is human-made, original, and proprietary.)

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
What is up babes? We are super excited.
We have something super special for you that we've been working
on for a long ass time and it iscalled a Grimoire, basically a
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(00:21):
reflection, stories, our own experience, and some rituals in
there for you to really get connected to your deepest inner
truths and figure out who you are from your own inner
philosophy. Fuck yeah.
Per the Babe Philosophy brand, we are calling your inner
philosopher out. Where can they find it, Mama?
So. If you go to babephilosophy.com,
right there on the top there is a little thing for you to put

(00:43):
your name and your e-mail in. You do that, you confirm your
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For free. Go get it, babes.
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understand your biomarkers. I check my biomarkers all the

(01:05):
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Woohoo, this is babe philosophy.Podcast where questions matter

(01:29):
more than answers, where liminalspaces are revered, and where
magic is practical. We are your hosts, Mellie Wolf
and live wickedly Go to Bay Philosophy, Babe philosophy.

(01:53):
Mellie and Liv, a special guest.Kate welcome everybody.
It's another episode of Babe Philosophy and I am extra
excited because my beautiful, wonderful, amazing, super
talented friend, Kate Shea is here and she's going to help us
talk about a topic that was actually submitted to us by a

(02:16):
YouTube follower, which thank you for your patience, love.
She sent this comment maybe months ago and we were just kind
of waiting for the right time, the right guest to tackle it
because we thought the question was actually really important
and valuable. The question being what is
femininity? But before we dig into that and
why Kate is the perfect woman totalk about this with us, Kate,
do you want to just introduce yourself a little bit and kind

(02:38):
of let people know who you are and what you're up to in the
world? Yeah, for sure.
I'm Kate. I was born and raised in Utah.
I am a mother to four children. I am wife of almost 14 years.
I'm a tattoo artist here in Utahspecializing in beautiful fine
line floral work. And yeah, I've been on this

(03:01):
journey of just self transformation and figuring out
what is femininity to me for thelast couple years.
And this last year and a half really catapulted me into really
getting to the nitty gritty of what that's all about.
In a nutshell, short and quick. That's a perfect nutshell.
I think you nailed it. So, So the reason that we wanted

(03:25):
to talk to Kate about this is because last year she went
through a major transformation. And I don't want to like steal
any of your steam. So I'm not going to get into the
details of it, But she really just like looked in the mirror
and said, fuck society's perceptions of my femininity.
I'm going to figure that out formyself and reclaim me for me.
And I think that that's a reallyvaluable story to discuss and

(03:49):
really get into. Like, what is femininity?
So maybe, Kate, you can just kind of start with your journey
and what came through for you inyour relationship to femininity,
you know, as a woman in general,but especially as your own
woman. Yeah.
So I think that it's important to give a little bit of a back
story of the life that I have lived in this short lifetime

(04:15):
that I have been here so far because I've lived a lot of
life. I became a mother and a wife at
16 years old. And obviously becoming a wife
and a mother at that young age, before I've even actually
developed myself as a woman in asense, gave me this false

(04:36):
perception of what that actuallyentails and what that means for
me. And when I was first married, my
husband was active duty in the military.
He spent deployments overseas. I was home by myself with our
children and just never really feeling like I had that

(04:57):
opportunity and that chance to discover who the fuck I am.
You know, I became a mother before I even became a woman and
very much falled in line with all of the society's perceptions
and conditioning on what a womanand what's feminine.

(05:19):
I got breast implants when I was18 years old.
A lot of that had to do with a husband with a porn addiction,
being a mom at such a young age and just never really getting
the chance to develop that for myself.
And so from a very young age, I had this belief of what feminine

(05:39):
is supposed to be is the outer appearance of us.
It is the perfect body, it's theperfect hair, it's the makeup,
It's it's the appearance. And 2023, end of 2023, I really
just got to this point where I was like, fuck that.
Like I am so tired of being so tied and leashed to this outer

(06:05):
appearance of feminine. You know, I'd been on this
journey of my awakening and selfdiscovery and all of that
process and it was just a major thing that was holding me back
from that. And I just decided we're going
to take it all away and discoverwhat is feminine if I don't have
what society deems as feminine and beautiful.

(06:30):
So brave. And just to like explicitly name
these things before Millie asks her question, she actually did.
So she removed, she removed her breast implants and she shaved
her head like all of her hair was gone.
And she did this all in one fellswoop.
Didn't ask anybody's fucking permission.
She just said, Nope, all these things, they're gone and I'm

(06:52):
going to be Kate, whatever that looks like.
So just to be explicit about what that looked like, Warrior.
Kate, I have so many questions, but I feel like I want to just
like dial it back a second and and just get a just an even more
potent picture of like what you're up against as this like
18 year old who's like dying to find herself.
Because, you know, you mentionedthat you were you in the

(07:16):
military or your husband was in the military.
My husband was your. Husband and then and then you
were raised in a Mormon family. Can you talk a little bit about
that and like what? Yeah, the view you had was
growing up. I know you mentioned that like
it's your outside but I feel like it's probably goes even
deeper than that with like a Mormon upbringing.

(07:39):
Yeah, I think for sure, You know, it's so it's so twisted in
any organized religion. But you know, when you would
take Mormonism as that being my experience, you're raised to
believe that your body is shameful, your body is a sin,
and you have to cover and protect your body from the eyes

(08:01):
of men while at the same time being able to, you know, step
into the role of being sexy and being feminine in the bedroom
behind closed doors. But you don't get to embody that
in any other area of your life. On top of that, your number one
role is to be the mother of the home, to bear children, to

(08:26):
listen to your husband, to listen to the patriarchy and the
males of the church that are defining every single aspect of
your life. And so growing up believing
that, you know, my role always was going to be, I'm going to
get married in the temple and I'm going to be a mom and I'm
going to have kids and I'm not going to have a career and I'm

(08:49):
not going to, you know, be my own woman.
It's just you just fall in theselines of you just bear children
and your husband runs your home and that, that's that.
Wow, that's fucking intense. Like my, my body is having like
a violent reaction to that. And I'm like, like, I just, I

(09:10):
feel rage and I feel claustrophobic.
Just imagining that and thinkingabout you living in that and
becoming. You said something that really
hit me, which was like, I becamea mother before I was even a
woman. Yeah.
Whoa, yeah. Yeah, and there's like Liv and I
love to talk about like the feminine experience through

(09:34):
archetypes. And it sounds like, you know,
like there's kind of like a natural unfolding of the
transition between archetypes because we are all of the
archetypes. We just express them more
different phases in our lives. And the maiden is like the first
of the feminine archetypes and she is like the innocent young,

(09:56):
free, discovering, kind of like carefree but entrusting and just
like learning herself, feeling herself, getting into herself.
And like, I imagine like a little girl frolicking in like
field of flowers and like picking flowers and like playing
with her hair and like learning her body and like touching her

(10:17):
body and like rolling around in the dirt and just like playing
and giggling and laughing. And it sounds like that part of
your upbringing was very much like missing and you
transitioned straight from like straight into mother from like
child into mother without actually having that, like,
maiden experience. And I'm curious like what was

(10:43):
the motive? I mean, I know the motive, I
guess was to like find yourself,but like, what was the symbolism
specifically of the like, takingout your breast implants,
shaving your head? Like what I'm getting is like,
you literally were just like, I'm going to strip myself down
to the bareness of who I am so that I can build it from the

(11:03):
ground up. Like can you talk about that a
little bit? Absolutely.
Yeah. That was my intention for sure
was fuck the patriarchy. Patriarchy and nobody gets to
define what is feminine and whatis beauty and what is sexy and
what is sensual for me anymore because I very much fell in

(11:25):
line. I was one of the most
materialistic people out there, to be honest.
And you know, I was all about myappearance, all about the hair,
all about all of the things. And underneath all of that was
an extreme lack of confidence and lack of even understanding

(11:48):
of who I actually was at the core of myself, because I was
just always falling in line withwhat that is supposed to be and
what that's supposed to look like, instead of actually having
the chance to come into myself and discover that.
Sorry, I forgot your question. No, that is, I mean, that is

(12:11):
like what I asked if you were trying to strip down to the
bareness of who you are. Yeah, you basically answered the
question. That was beautiful.
I'm like, so impressed by the courage, like live share that it
all happened in like the same timeline and like the same year.
I don't know if that's accurate,but that's fucking gnarly.

(12:32):
Like to take on taking out your implants, shaving your head and
just like going full plunge intolike, what happened after that?
That's when my whole life fell apart.
Yeah. What happened?
Oh, OK, so a little timeline. I got my implants taken out and

(12:53):
within three days I decided to shave my head.
So like I had my drains and I was in my compression bra
sitting in my bathtub, and I hadwoken up from a nap.
And during that time frame, I took a long time to come back to
my body after being under anesthesia and going through all

(13:16):
of that. Like, there was so much work
outside of this realm that was going on for me that I can look
back on that time frame and be like, yeah, I still wasn't even
fully here. But yeah, it was within a couple
days that I just woke up from a nap one day.
And I was like, you know what? Just removing my implants wasn't
enough. I have to shave my head because

(13:40):
I had to get to the bareness of myself.
And if I can find the love and the beauty in myself when I have
removed the number one things that people look at or define as
feminine and sexy, who am I without it?
And I also, you know, my husbandis an amazing, incredible man.

(14:05):
And he knew as well that throughthis transformation, like he's
going to be tested too. If I'm doing this to discover
femininity and sensuality and what that means and how I can
show up in that way, of course, it's going to test the number
one man that I have in my life. And so removing that from me, it

(14:28):
was like within a week's span, life as I knew it was gone.
Like, I completely took away that version of myself that
everybody knew, my husband, my children, my family, my friends,
my coworkers. I killed her and I stripped her

(14:50):
away in, you know, such a beautiful and surrendered way,
but also in a very aggressive like I was angry.
I sat in anger for a long time of just like, how did I how did
I allow myself to fall in line with all of this?
And also how are women around the world allowing themselves to

(15:17):
define their femininity and define their beauty by what
society says is supposed to be beautiful?
Like how did we even get to thisplace of putting known toxic
items into our bodies, going under extreme surgeries to be

(15:39):
able to fit into this mold and play this role so that other
people can accept us as beautiful?
Yeah. This is really making me think
of like a crucial piece of the paradigm that you were living in
when you chose to get the breastimplants.
And this is something that it's being talked about more and
acknowledged more, but it's really not spoken of often.

(16:01):
And it's this is like the elephant in the room all the
time, which is the porn industry.
And it's not to make it right orwrong or bad or indifferent or
to like even have a stance on it, but to just acknowledge that
the most common addiction men have these days is to porn.
It's a direct result of their repressed desires and all of the

(16:22):
pressure that the patriarchy puts on both men and women
around sex. The inability to talk about it,
especially in a lot of religiousconstructs such as Mormonism,
where there's this like, crazy mix of shame, but also a
requirement to participate in this thing because it's how you
make babies. And there's just like so much
control happening in this space.And porn has developed as I

(16:45):
think maybe an answer to that repression.
It's kind of like the inevitableoutcome of what is a very
natural human animalistic, like all animals fuck, right?
Like we all poop, we all pee, weall fuck.
It's all it's all of us are doing these things and we've
just like removed this from our nature now in a home setting.

(17:06):
And I have my own, I have my ownexperience of like battling
someone who's like hypersexuality was like
plastered all over. And his Twitter feed's like full
of these women who have, you know, manufactured waistlines,
manufactured faces, manufacturedwhatever to like fit this ideal.
And my version of doing what youdid was to go to the gym and try

(17:27):
to make my body look a certain way.
And then I got sciatica and I was miserable for two years.
For you being so young, being indoctrinated into the Mormon
church and honestly maybe not actually having this open,
honest dialogue about what your husband was doing, but be aware,
being aware of what your husbandwas doing.
I would love to kind of just talk about like the soup and
like the warp that that puts youin.

(17:48):
Because guarantee you at least 8out of 10 women listening to
this right now have been in a relationship or are currently in
a relationship where their partner is not using porn in a
healthy way and is in fact like taking away from their
relationship so he can go like stare at the screen and get his
dopamine hits. Yeah, yeah, I caught on early on

(18:10):
into our marriage that he had anaddiction to porn.
So here I am, 161718, new mom, new wife, and realizing that he
has this addiction. And on top of that, being so
young, like you're not really developed as a woman, as a juicy

(18:36):
and beautiful and sensual woman at 16 and 17 and 8, before
you're 30 years old even, you know, like you are not developed
as these women that our men are spending all of their time with
on their screen. And so that was something that
was really difficult for us to navigate for 10 years of our

(18:57):
marriage. And it was when he was deployed
to Afghanistan, where I had justturned 18.
And I was like, you know what, if I'm supposed to be sexy and
beautiful and him come home to this beautiful woman that he's
waited nine months to come home to, I have to look the part,

(19:21):
right? I have to fit this mold of being
sexy and beautiful. So while he's gone, I'm going to
get breast implants so that whenhe comes home, he comes home to
a woman and he comes home to somebody.
And then also maybe that will make him stop looking at porn.
Maybe that will make him choose me instead with out the

(19:46):
knowledge that I have now on understanding on that addiction,
being young and naive. And it's something that there's
so much shame around that nobodywants to talk about.
No man wants to go get help for a porn addiction.
So it was like this battle, suffering in silence, and I
thought that I could fix it all,and I could fix that all by

(20:08):
changing myself and being this sexy feminine woman.
That maybe if I am that way, he won't turn to that instead.
I resonate with this on so many levels.
And I know Mellie has her own experiences and just like
compete, like literally competing with every idea or
concept of a woman that ever existed.

(20:31):
And it creates this like impossibility.
And one of the things that Mellie and I have really
discovered in, like, researchingthese archetypes is like, how
many of them have been not only reduced, but like mushed
together and amalgamated. Like the whole concept of like
the virgin mother, which is essentially what Mormonism is

(20:52):
like preaching. It's impossible.
It's an impossible construct. You can't be a mother and be a
virgin, but somehow that's our role model.
Like that's the most common feminine archetype of virtue and
leadership and worthiness and all of these things, yet all the

(21:12):
men who are supposedly saying this, and I don't mean every man
everywhere, but priests, reverends, popes, bishops,
whoever the fuck, they're probably watching porn and or
participating in illegal sexual activities with minors.
Holy moly. And we're letting that we're
literally, no, what we're talking about is like we're

(21:32):
letting that, that that has now become a staple and the root of
what dictates femininity. What?
Like I love it. What?
Right. It's like it's this wild thing
I. Literally for I'm like cracking
up right now, Kate, because literally today I told Liv I was
like, we need to say some more like controversial outlandish

(21:53):
shit. So we have good.
Hooks for our reels and she justsaid and just now she just.
Drops. You know the Pope is probably
fucking young people and watching porn.
Duh. OK, I'm sorry if anybody thinks
the Pope and the Pope and the bishops and the reverends and
the priests are not watching porn.
And they're absolutely insane. They're absolutely insane.
Yeah, Yes, they are. Our public officials are doing

(22:16):
it. If our husbands are doing it,
everybody's doing it. This isn't like an isolated
incident. So I I'm so interested to hear
from you, the experience you hadof people's reactions, you know,
people who love you. Right?
Like you kind of commented a little bit like you and your

(22:37):
husband both knew of course thiswas going to be confronting to
him, but he wasn't the only person who was confronted by
this. And, and actually some of what
you told me there was like for me a little bit more of like a
shock of some of the other reactions that were going on
that maybe cut even deeper. So I would love to just hear
like when you did this, like what was the response and how

(22:57):
did how did you cope with? That yeah, it just, like I said,
it completely blew up every relationship in my life.
And, you know, I can only assumetheir perception.
I think there was a lot of worrythat I was losing my mind.

(23:18):
There was a lot of, Oh my gosh, what did she do?
Who is she now? She's not who we thought she
was. I think the biggest blow to me
was losing the relationship withmy parents because, you know,
off and on I've had a pretty great relationship with them.

(23:39):
My mother does child care for a living.
She took care of our children while we worked until they were
in kindergarten, you know, so very close knit to our family.
I, I think the biggest thing is it made them so uncomfortable
and they did not understand whatit was that I was doing because

(24:00):
they're just not at the place where they can.
They are still active Mormon in the church.
And it, it just brought a lot ofmisunderstanding while not being
willing to come to me and ask for that understanding.
And so, you know, ultimately that led to kind of cutting ties

(24:21):
with my parents for now and really just taking a step back
from that as far as friendships and Co workers.
You know, I had some incredible friendships fail and leave.
And I had some that were incredible and stayed and stayed

(24:43):
at a arm's distance and allowed me to go through whatever this
was that I needed to go through.But it was incredibly,
incredibly lonely to feel like Iam at such a vulnerable moment
in my life where all I wanted was to reaffirm that I have

(25:04):
these relationships and that I have these people that have the
capacity to hold me and have thecapacity to witness what I'm
going through and hold my hand. And I can look back at that now
and be like, OK, I would not have been able to get to this
place within myself if I had that.
Like, I had to be alone. I had to crawl to the depths of

(25:30):
the darkness that was inside of me.
And I had to carry myself out ofthis state of really reaching
rock bottom and not even wantingto play this game anymore.
I, I've reached such a state of Oh my gosh, I bit off so much

(25:51):
more than I could chew. And leading up to this whole
transformation, I knew that it was going to completely change
my life. I knew that it was going to
completely change me, but I did not expect our plan for it to go
to the depths of darkness that it really did and to really be

(26:13):
totally alone through all of it.It was like I was in a
completely different reality from everybody else around me
and in such a state of I'm barely keeping myself alive.
I am fighting this battle of just wanting to leave day in and
day out and nobody around me canGet Me Out of it because nobody

(26:36):
around me sees me and nobody around me understands what I'm
going through or has the capacity to hold or to carry it.
So I just reached this state of just utter loneliness while at
the same time being surrounded by people and those that I know
love me. And oh, it was the most

(26:58):
confusing but transformative experiences.
Yeah, that's like the loneliest.That's the loneliest time,
right, Where you're alone and surrounded by people.
That's like, that is the true alone.
It's. Like.
That place is is gnarly and thatresonates so much with me, Kate,

(27:19):
because, and I think it resonates with live too, because
that's really where babe philosophy was born was like in
that space where Liv and I felt like we were the most alone
we've ever been. And we were like stripped down
to the raw material of our humanity and really realizing

(27:40):
like there's so many parallels here in your story and like
yours is so much more like amplified because it's like
you're living in a society that's like living in this
completely different way. Whereas like Liv and I were
just, I mean, not just we were going through like really

(28:01):
intense transformations in ourselves in our breakups.
And that led us to a similar place within ourselves of just
like, complete and utter loneliness and like sadness.
And like in that space, it was like we couldn't have created
big philosophy had we not gone to that space.
And there's just something so alchemical about that space.

(28:21):
And everyone is so afraid of it.But it's also just like, like
David Goggins, I don't know if you're familiar, but like,
that's his whole thing. It's like that fucking closet of
skeletons that like room of demons.
Like, that's where you find yourself.
And it's fucking terrifying. But it's like, so it's so

(28:44):
there's like something so beautiful and poetic about,
like, accepting, like, what you were just saying that you had to
crawl into the depths of yourself.
Like, there's something about that that's like, yeah, it's so
scary. But if we all kind of, like,
accepted this as a part of, like, our homecoming, maybe it
wouldn't be such a terrifying experience.

(29:08):
But you know what's really resonating with me right now?
And you told me about shaving your head and, like, all of this
stuff. And like, I'm feeling like you
had like a Britney Spears momentlike that.
Is literally yes. What happened?
Yes, I love Britney's tower moments so much, so fucking
much. They give me life.
Thank you for bringing her up. Yeah, and that's what's so
fucking powerful about your story, Kate.

(29:31):
And like Britney Spears's story and how they're so similar is
like to society, they do feel like you're losing your mind and
you're going insane. And there's like all of this
taboo. There's all of this, oh, she's
batshit crazy. Oh, she's like off her rocker.
Oh, she's losing her mind or sheshaved her head or she, you
know, like it's, and I remember being one of those people, like

(29:53):
when Britney Spears shaved her head, I was like, oh, no,
Britney went insane. I'm so sad.
Like it was sad for me. I was like but I didn't
understand that like. It was.
Literally her just being like fuck, I'm done.
Like I'm fucking done. I'm done being who everybody
else is telling me to be. And like now I'm like, oh shit,

(30:13):
that was a fucking power move. Like a power.
Move. So I'm just so impressed by your
courage and your strength. And I just wanted to speak to
that because that is, there's like a whole movement right now
of women taking their implants out and like shaving their heads
and doing this like reclamation.And, you know, you were like

(30:38):
ahead of the game. And I, I, it's just such a
powerful, powerful, powerful move and it really like it like
clears the playing field, you know what I mean?
Like, and I, and I love that. I love the idea of just like
stripping yourself down to the raw material of who you are so
you can build yourself back up. And it's of course it's going to

(31:00):
happen that your entire like social network is going, you're
going to vibrate out of it like this something me and Liv say
all the time. It's like you vibrate out, like
you're just going to vibrate outbecause you are literally on a
different frequency. Like there is no way those
relationships, if those relationships were to remain
intact, you would not actually be vibrating at your authentic

(31:23):
frequency. Like it is just going to be a by
product of you being you that you are going to vibrate out of
everything that isn't you. And that's another like
welcoming because people are so afraid of I myself, I'm so
afraid of losing relationships, burning bridges, like I'm scared
of that. But there's something so
reassuring about the narrative that like, if you're vibrating

(31:47):
at your authentic frequency, you're not going to be able to
stick to anything else. Anyway.
I went on a little soapbox therebecause I was, I'm just like so
moved by your story. I'm I would love to hear what
came through, like what came through, what were the things,
what were the like anchor pointsthat you were like, oh, click,
click, click, click like alignment, like I'm curious,

(32:10):
like what came through. Yeah.
OK. Where do I start with that?
I, I'll start with, I guess what, what came through 1st to
me was a lot of the other realizations of what breast
implants on like a physical and an energetic at a spiritual

(32:31):
level does to women before X planting.
I, yes, I was connected to my body.
Yes, I was connected to my intuition.
But what I didn't realize was I was only connecting at the
amount that I could with having something that is as toxic and

(32:53):
low frequency as breast implantswere in my body on my heart
chakra. And so immediately after
xplanting, the biggest thing that I had realized as I was
coming to, I was like, Oh my gosh, I can feel my heart chakra
like, like I can actually feel it, whereas before I thought

(33:13):
that I was feeling it. You know, I, I practice Reiki
energy work and you know, I'm, I'm in that space.
So I, I felt like I was already having that connection.
And the biggest thing for me waslike, Oh my gosh, I can actually
connect with my heart. I can actually feel the depth of
emotions that were meant to be here to fail into experience.

(33:38):
And with having that toxicity out of my body, I had such a
better relationship to my body. Like I could actually listen to
her. I could actually feel her.
Because where I was stuck in right before I decided to
explant was if I sat with myselfand I tuned into my body.

(33:59):
Where my attention was going wasin the awareness of feeling
these breast implants in my chest and I just like could not
break that barrier of trying to tune into other areas of my body
because immediately my awarenesswas going to that.
And when I removed that, I was having so many realizations of

(34:22):
Oh my gosh, of course, This is why for I don't know, however
many years breast implants have been a thing since the mid 1900s
of something, the detriment thatthat has had to women.
And like the purpose of that, like I saw big picture, the
purpose of what breast implants were designed to do to the

(34:47):
feminine as a collective. If you can not only condition
women to believe that they are not beautiful or sexy just as
they are, and convince them to go into this massive surgery and
have a foreign object put into their body on top of their heart
chakra, on top of their heart space that cuts them from their

(35:10):
heart, makes it harder to connect with your body and your
intuition. How much easier is it going to
be to keep the feminine in this never ending loop of chasing
what they're supposed to be and dimming their power and dimming
their light and their connectionto self?
Like Master, brilliant plan, right?

(35:30):
If you really think about it, ifyou can condition all of these
women to not feel good enough about themselves and then put
this object to connect them, to disconnect them from the one
thing that can get them to feel good about themselves.
You get to keep women stuck. You get to keep them playing
small. You get to keep them in this
cycle of falling in line and being what the patriarchy wants

(35:55):
us to be. And so that was a big just
reclamation of my own power to be like, no, I, I get to connect
with myself now. So that was the biggest aha
connection moment for me, I think.
And then also as as hard as it was for me to be in this state
of everybody around me is looking at me like I'm crazy and

(36:18):
everybody around me is just walking on egg shells, treating
me like I'm so fragile, like I'min a crisis.
I was able to also really see how much everybody else is
sucked into the same pattern in the same belief around how we're
supposed to show up. So, you know, as hard as this

(36:40):
and lonely as this experience was for me, I had to just
constantly check myself and be in this state of empowerment
that know this is fucking hard, but I can do it and I'm gonna
show everybody around me that you can freaking do it.
It was it was just such a reclamation of power for me.

(37:01):
I love that you sound like you were.
You sound very empowered now. But I'm imagining that like when
you were first realizing this, like this systemic issue of like
breast implants and the implication for the feminine, I
imagine there was initially, andyou mentioned that there's like
a lot of anger for a long time. Yeah.

(37:25):
Like where did when did? Like were you able to integrate
that anger? Like where are you now in in
seeing that like this, this, this systemic issue is still an
issue. It hasn't gone away, but like, I
imagine your stance on it is nowdifferent.
Do you like, how did you integrate that anger?
Does that anger feel integrated?Like what's your perspective

(37:45):
now? Is it like empowering that you
got to be out of it? Where, where, Where did that
settle? Yeah, for sure.
I feel like I, I'm definitely out of that anger phase.
I, I sat in that for a long time.
I did sit in that for probably a, a solid year straight of not
only being so angry that I choseto do that, but so angry that
this has pushed so much onto women and just everything as a

(38:08):
whole. But now I sit in this state of,
of just utter confidence that weas women can truly take our
power back. Like we really can get to this
point of saying fuck the patriarchy and we don't need

(38:28):
these society conditions and beliefs on how we're supposed to
show up and what we're supposed to look like.
And I can be in this place of I'd gone through all of that
transformation and now I can help to hold and to guide other
women that are feeling this likedeep innate part of themselves

(38:51):
that just wants to be free, thatjust wants to be bare.
And knowing that if I could go to such a deep, dark place in
myself and carry myself out of that, every single woman can do
the same thing. And I can be there to be a voice
and to uplift and empower women to be able to go through that

(39:15):
transformation because to be able to go to such a dark place
within myself, I can see and hold and carry that with
anybody, with any woman that wants to take that back for
themselves and reclaim their sensuality and reclaim their

(39:35):
femininity for what it is for them instead of what they're
told that it's supposed to be. Beautiful.
I love this so much. And as I'm, as I'm sitting here
and I'm really thinking about this topic of what is femininity
and just what I glean from your story from a very high level,
which ultimately I always just boiled back down to it's like

(39:58):
your femininity is like what youchoose it to be.
It's how you want to express it.And I, I'm thinking about, you
know, I have other friends who have breast implants.
And their relationship to them is different.
And in my experience of it, and something Mellie talks about a

(40:18):
lot and we've talked about on this show is like your intention
and the fuel you're coming with,right?
There's like clean fuel and dirty fuel.
And something that happens a lotin our culture is like, and that
you see this with like motherhood a lot is like, this
is the right way to woman. This is the right way to woman.
And there's like the people who are like, you can only
breastfeed, right? Like that's the only right way
to be a mother, that you have todo it natural.

(40:40):
And then there's a woman who arelike, no, like taking care of
your baby in whatever way is accessible to you is the way to
do it. The way that's loving is the way
to do it. Like there's all of these kind
of things. And so I'm kind of putting
myself in the perspective of maybe a woman who's listening to
this, who has her breast implants and she's hearing what

(41:00):
you're saying and is maybe very confronted by what you're
saying, either because what you're saying is deeply resonant
and maybe she does need to face this and get the explant because
it was dirty fuel to put them in.
Or maybe there's a woman who's like, I don't know that my
relationship to my implants is the same.
I don't know that I resonate with it being a blocking of my
chakras or a denial of my truth of femininity.

(41:24):
And I thought it might be worth us just like kind of talking
here. Like, is there a, is there any
like real way to be prescriptiveabout these things?
Is it black and white that if itwas manufactured in a fucking
factory by the patriarchy or whoever, that it's just not a
good thing? I'm even thinking like on a
micro level, I went through a whole experience with my IUD.

(41:45):
You know, I didn't realize this at at the time, but the more I
was getting into my body, the more my body was like, take it
out, take it out, take it out. And to your point, my focus
couldn't go anywhere but on my womb.
I could feel it, like I could feel it cramping.
I could feel the shape of it. It was like I went six years
without ever feeling it. And then all of a sudden now I
can feel it and I could hear my body being like, get it out, get

(42:07):
it out, get it out, get it out, get it out.
And from that space, I realized I had put that in there from a
place of fear. I had put it in there as a
reaction to patriarchy. So I removed it for that reason.
So I just thought it might be worth talking here because I
know there are women listening who are like, my breast implants
aren't bad. I love my big ass titties.
I got it when I was 28 for good reasons.

(42:29):
And I think it's worth just kindof talking about from your
perspective in your journey. When you think about what
femininity is, how do you how doyou hold any woman's difference
of opinion or truth? Good.
Oh, for sure. Yeah.
This is a good question. It's one that I think will

(42:49):
ruffle a lot of feathers becausethis is something that I have
sat with a lot. You know, I, I am a firm
believer that like my experienceand my truth is my experience
and my truth. And I'm not go, I'm not one to
be here to just slam that onto everybody and tell all these
women that that is what that means for you.
But I think ultimately at the end of the day, we know that

(43:11):
breast implants are toxic. We know that.
We know that there are specific cancers linked only to breast
implants. We know the toll that it has on
our bodies, whether you have symptoms of breast implant
illness or not. I didn't think that I did until
I got them removed and I startednoticing these changes that I
was going through with my body. But I think the biggest question

(43:35):
for women to sit with and ask is, is it worth it?
Is your confidence in your breasts worth having something
that is so toxic to you and yourbody that is causing such a
turmoil and a reaction inside ofyou, even if you don't think
that all of these symptoms that you're having is directly tied

(43:56):
to that, like, is that worth it?You know, we know of all of
these other super toxic things in our life.
You know, people are freaking out about fluoride in our water
system or red 40 in our food, but yet women just will not look
at the toxicity of having silicone in our chest as a

(44:17):
problem. And you know, regardless, I, I
totally understand and feel the truth.
And you know what, what fuel wasthat for you?
Yes, for me, mine was from a very toxic place.
It was from a place of if I don't have these, I'm not good
enough. And that's honestly how it is
for a lot of women. You know, you see the thing that

(44:38):
I still sit with that that angers me, I guess is when I see
mothers on social media that have gone through having
children and our bodies will never be the same.
And they are the hype women for mommy makeovers.
They are advocating for doing this traumatic thing to our

(44:59):
bodies because they don't believe that their body is good
enough after changing to create life.
And it's like, where does that belief?
Where is that actually coming from?
Can you go deep enough within yourself to sit with and ask,
why do I not feel good enough just as I am?

(45:19):
Why do I have to go through thismassive procedure, put this
toxic item inside of me in orderfor me to feel confident and
feel better after having children or whether you have
children or not? But that's just a big thing that
I'm still sitting with, you know, because I definitely still
catch myself scrolling social media sometimes and I see

(45:40):
somebody's story and their mommymakeover and the confidence that
it brought them. And it's like, I can love and
honor and respect that for you that you needed to go through
that to get to that level of confidence for yourself.
But from what I've experienced, for me, seeing that is very
surface level, like you're just doing something that you can go

(46:00):
under the knife, which isn't something to take lightly and
come out of it and be like, oh, I'm confident and I'm beautiful
and I love myself. No, no, you're, you're just
doing something that is quote, easy for you to do to reach that
level within yourself. But the underlying issue is that

(46:23):
you don't feel like you're good enough after whatever life
experience you've had leading you to make that decision.
Like, why are you not good enough without doing that?
Why do you have to put this toxic item inside of your body
in order to feel sexy or to feelbeautiful?
Yeah, there's so much there. I mean, I I definitely, I

(46:49):
definitely think there is something too.
It is easier and more convenientand our culture is highly based
on convenience to take a pill, to have a laser on your face, to
have somebody cut into you, to inject Botox, to put on lip
filler to whatever it is. It is easier and more

(47:10):
convenient. And I do think there is some
something suspicious, something in my like felt sense right now,
a little malicious from cutting women off from the idea that
they can go to those depths within themselves, from the idea

(47:31):
that they need to be scared of their loneliness or scared of
their darkness or scared of their Medusa traits or their
collie traits or their Persephone traits.
I have found like I really, I've, I've been thinking about
loneliness a lot lately because I'm unpartnered and something in
my heart just so wants a partner.
Like she cries about it all the time.
Mostly I'm like, fine. And then I get in these moments

(47:53):
where she's like, who am I goingto cuddle with?
And I'm just like, I don't know,he's on his way.
We'll find out. But when I sit with that and I
sit with like some of the behaviors that come off of that,
which many of them are me reducing my femininity or like
playing a role or like figuring out how I can like be
competitive against other women in whatever way I realize the,

(48:17):
the, the, the, the fear of the loneliness is 1 of
misconception. Loneliness is just a hallway to
what's next. It's not actually like, it's not
a, it's not a destination. It's like a way post.
It's like, okay, I'm sitting in the loneliness until I get to
the next thing, right. And if we could conceptualize it
that way, we would recognize we're temporary passengers and
loneliness at all times because it's literally impossible to be
alone. You're with yourself 24/7 and

(48:37):
you are, you're a lot bitch. You're a whole hell of a fucking
lot. That's all I got to say.
And then we have this like, I think entrained fear of our own
power because the true depth andbreadth and power of the
feminine is our capacity to feelall of it and hold it, feel all
of it and hold it right. And so I'm just kind of almost

(49:01):
wondering if it's even less about you're putting the toxins
in your body and more about the convenience of what you're
doing. More about the ease with which
you are superficially resolving a problem, which I think is more
what you're pointing at here is like, it's less about the fact
that you're putting the implantsin and more like, why are you
choosing to do that to solve this issue?

(49:23):
Are you actually clear on what this issue is?
Do you see the root of it? And is this actually something
that if you addressed that you wouldn't want this anymore?
Or do you address that, clean that up and go no, For me, it's
worth the toxins, just like somepeople will go no, a cigarettes
fucking worth the risk of cancer.
I don't give a flying fuck. I love these cigarettes.

(49:44):
Or, you know, the people who live to be like 120 and they
drink whiskey every night because they love whiskey and
they don't care about poisoning their liver.
Again, it's like all free will choice.
But I love this invitation that you've kind of like served up,
which is if you don't understandyour why, if you're not willing
to go into that place, if you'renot willing to for an entire

(50:05):
year, live in a lonely, pressurefilled hell, are you actually
confident? Or are you living in the
illusion of confidence, in the illusion of femininity?
And I think that is, I think that's like ultimately the
question, is this real or is it as fake as your tits?

(50:27):
Damn the one liners are droppingtoday.
Bitch Fuck yeah. I.
Gave you an invitation and I said yes.
Yeah, I feel like I have something to say about this and
I feel like it's a it's an interesting game because I think

(50:49):
like, yeah, what you're getting to Kate about like, are you just
putting a Band-Aid on the problem that like, are you
taking the easy way out? Yeah, great.
It does improve your confidence.I can see that.
However, is that House of Cards or have you done the work?
Like I think that's a really good question to be asking.
And like, if you still, if you do the work and you still end up

(51:12):
wanting those tits and that's just like what you want for you,
then like I also feel like thereis a reality where that's like,
OK, you know, it's like, and I'll use myself as an example.
I don't have fixed hits. And I and you know, I used to
like dye my hair and I used to straighten my hair and I used to

(51:33):
like do all these things that I don't do anymore because I
recognized like I used to a big one.
This is a big one for me. I used to wax my pussy the whole
entire thing, just like like naked mole rat, like wax it and
I did that. Naked mole rat pussy.

(51:54):
And I did that from the age of Istarted doing that, I think like
as soon as I got pubic hair, like literally as soon as I got
pubic hair when I was like 13 orsomething like that or 14, I
don't know. But basically since I was a
child, I have been waxing my pussy.
I just recently like a year and a half ago was like why am I

(52:18):
doing this? Like I literally it was like an
automated thing for me. It was like I'm just waxing my
pussy because I waxed my pussy. Like there was no reason behind
it other than it was just something I did and I had
always, I accepted it as like the proper thing to do.
I don't know where I got that idea.
Like, it was like this, like, you know, it's like men won't

(52:40):
want to have sex. With people in porn.
Yeah, yeah, right. There you go.
It's like this, these like subliminal messages that are
like, that's what you do. And then a year and a half ago I
was like, oh, I'm not doing thiscuz I want to.
I'm doing this cuz this is what I think I'm supposed to do.
So I stopped and it was like this super fucking confronting

(53:02):
thing for me. I was like what the fuck is
this? Like I was like.
Navigating it. And they were like many times I
was like, OK, I'm gonna shave it.
It's itchy. I'm gonna wax it.
I'm gonna, it's itchy. Like I'm gonna wax it because
it's itchy. That's why I'm gonna wax it.
And I was like, no, bitch, like you're just you're, you're
giving yourself a reason to do it.
That is not the reason. Like, so I just stuck with it

(53:22):
and I stuck with it and I stuck with it and I stuck with it and
then I finally just like embraced it and like my pussy
hair grows really fucking long. So I like braid that shit.
Dumbledore. What do I God damn we're gonna
have a pussy hair B braiding party for Bay Philosophy.
Sign me. Up.
And that was an example of something.

(53:43):
And then, like, I found my comfort in it.
Like I got like, it took me fucking a damn year.
But like, I got to a point whereI was like, OK, like now I can
actually begin to decide if thisis something that I want to wax
or keep for me and not because of the subliminal messaging
through society. And that's something that like,

(54:06):
you know, I feel like we as women, we all have in our quest
for our femininity, we're all like constantly weighing these
things of like, oh, this is likea normal accepted thing in
society. Is this something I want to do
or not? And like there's so many things
that we just I accept. Another thing is like my nails,
I always had to have my nails painted.
And there was a period of time where I was like, I'm going to
not paint my nails for like as long as it takes for me to get

(54:27):
over the fact that I feel like Ineed to have my nails painted,
right? It's like I was like, I'm like
detaching myself from all these things that I think I need to
have that are just so minor. Nobody notices them, but I do,
you know what I mean? But then there's like Botox and
lip filler are things that I actually do and I still do and I
will. I'm not at a point in my life

(54:49):
where like I don't feel a call to stop.
And it's like I do it like once a year.
So it's not like something that I'm not one of those girls
that's like constantly going andgetting re up and re up and re
up and re up and re up. But it's something that I'll do
like once a year and but I don'tknow, like, I don't know, like

(55:12):
hearing you talk right now. And I'm like thinking of what
the equivalent is for me. I'm like, OK, I do lip filler
and I get Botox. I don't get Botox.
I get the other one that's like not, I don't know what it's
called, but it's like missing the protein or something like
that. But anyways, it's different from
Botox, but it's the same idea. And I'm just thinking to myself

(55:34):
like, like, is this disconnecting me from my
femininity? Am I OK without this?
Am I distorted in this space, trying to stay young or keep a
certain image of myself so that I am attractive?
And like, you know, I think thatI'm definitely willing to

(55:54):
consider that. Like, there is that at play.
And I think that there is something that's just like needs
to be honored about like each woman's path, you know what I
mean? It's like we can't rush these
things. Like these things are going to
have to come when they come. And the things that we're
participating in to like keep usafloat right now serve a

(56:15):
purpose. You know, like I, this is a
little bit of a different like category, but I used to, I like
smoked weed pretty much every day.
For the past five. Years.
And I just recently had this like download that.
Like I'm not gonna do that anymore because it no longer
serves me. But had anybody tried to get me
to quit smoking weed in the pastfive years, I would have told

(56:37):
them to go fuck themselves. So like.
I was like, not available to notsmoke weed, you know what I
mean? And that's like, there's just
something very sacred about eachwoman's process.
And I think that that's something that I want to say to
the girl who's listening, who has her fake tits and is like, I
love my fake tits. I don't want to get rid of my
fake tits. Like, I just want to offer her

(56:58):
the message that like, it's OK to have your fake tits.
And if your fake tits are serving you right now, that's
OK. And like, maybe in time you will
change your mind. Maybe you won't.
Either way, that's OK and you don't have to do anything about
the situation that you're in right now, but it is something

(57:20):
to just consider. And like like right now, Kate's
story for me is like something that I'm really taking in is
something that I can consider. Like I can hold the possibility
that maybe one day I'll wake up and realize, oh, me getting lip
filler and Botox is actually notof service and like it is

(57:41):
actually blocking me from the fullness of myself.
And maybe I won't get to that point, but maybe I will and I
can just hold that and I don't have to act on it.
But I feel like the message thatKate has is just a really
beautiful one to hold and not something that we have to act
on. It's something that we can just
hold and allow the truth of our reality and the nuance of our

(58:03):
reality to like unfold as we feel as organic to us.
Beautiful, beautiful. Yeah.
I'd love to piggyback off of that and add if that's OK,
please, because I get asked thisall the time.
You know, I am a tattoo artist, which obviously is doing things

(58:23):
permanently on the body that you're going to have until you
die. And so, you know, I've.
I've had people throughout this journey of mine be like, how can
you feel so strongly the way that you do about women altering
their bodies in order to be accepted when your day-to-day
career is altering the body forever?
And I think ultimately it comes down to asking yourself, is this

(58:46):
a form of self-expression or is this something that I have to do
in order to accept, accept and love myself or feel confidence,
you know? Because oftentimes you're not
getting a tattoo to fix a part of your body in order for it to
be accepted, right? You're doing that because you

(59:07):
think that they're awesome, you want the art, yadda, yadda.
Many different reasons, self-expression.
Same thing with, you know, womenwho dye their hair or wearing
makeup. You know, things like that.
If it can come from a place of genuine self-expression where
you can feel more, feel more like yourself and expressed in

(59:27):
your human vessel, right? We're in these incredible human
bodies that were meant to be here and express inside of them.
If it can come from that genuineplace instead of from the place
of I am not good enough without this thing.
I am not good enough without without fake tits.
I am not good enough without Botox and filler because I'm

(59:47):
aging and I don't want wrinkles on my head because we're not
supposed to want that and we're not supposed to age.
Like, can you sit with yourself and ask, is this a
self-expression or is this a means to something that I need
to be confident in myself? And that is kind of the dark

(01:00:09):
side of this lesson for me that I really had to sit with.
You know, I have the gene key ofjudgement.
And that showed up a lot for me with the judgement of seeing all
these women continuously. Pushing and sharing their
stories with their mommy makeovers and their breast
implants and how confident they are, you know, and then I'm on
the other side of my phone looking at it like, OK, but are

(01:00:31):
you confident? Like you had to do that to be
confident, right? And it's not that I don't think
that women can get fake tits from a place of a
self-expression. But when I find myself sitting
with that question, I just, I don't think that there are a lot

(01:00:53):
of women out there at all that are doing it from that place of
genuinely just wanting to have their body express in that way.
Like it is coming from a wound of not being good enough without
them. It is coming from a lack of
confidence. And it's not to say that there

(01:01:14):
can't be a point when women get to that and they just want to do
it. Like, who knows?
What if I'm 50 and I decide to get fake tits again and I'm
genuinely coming from a place ofno, I freaking know who I am.
I am my authentic self and I want to express like this.
I don't know. I'm not closing off that
possibility for myself. So I also don't want to close
that off to other women out there that may feel a little bit

(01:01:38):
emotionally activated when listening to this and coming
from a place of no, I, I love itand I don't need, I don't need
my fake tits in order to feel a certain way about myself.
And I don't know, I just, I, I think that they do.
And that's the the key thing that I think women as a whole,
regardless of if it's getting a cosmetic procedure, if it's

(01:01:58):
getting Botox or filler, if it'snot being able to leave your
house without makeup on or without your hair done or
wearing a certain item of clothing.
Like we are not here to conform to what other people think.
We're supposed to be beautiful. Like we're here to feel
beautiful about ourselves. And yes, if wearing your makeup

(01:02:19):
and doing your hair, like clearly I did my makeup and hair
for this podcast and the show because I want to express that
way and I feel beautiful. But I can also be OK not showing
up that way because I'm confident in myself and I know
who I am. Preach.
Girl. Yeah, I this, I think this
conversation is just so infinitely valuable because if

(01:02:40):
we're talking about like what isfemininity, we've got three
different women who express their femininity differently
overall. And then similar similarly in
some ways, like we all have tattoos.
We, you know, we all go to the gym and work out, you know, like
there's like certain things thatwe're doing.
And then if you look at the nuances of it, it's like there
are some differences. Like I chose to fucking grow up

(01:03:03):
my armpit hair. I feel weird shaving it now.
But for with until like the lastyear, I've and I've tried to
grow it out multiple times and Ishaved it off because I felt so
deeply uncomfortable, not because I was uncomfortable with
it, because I other people will look at it like I will literally
be talking and I will watch someone go to my armpit just.

(01:03:25):
I love why would you play with your armpit hair?
What are you talking about? I trimmed it so I would stop
doing that. I was like, OK, that is a little
weird that I'm like playing withmy armpit hair.
I'm such a texture girly, so I'll like play with my hair and
I was like pulling on my hair and I was like, OK, that is
really weird and very ape like and I'm gonna like not do that.
So I did trim it up so that's less of a thing.

(01:03:46):
But all that to say, like I, I'm, I'm really just thinking
about like the processes I've gone through and I, I do think
there is like a seated question one can sit with, especially if
you're a woman. And especially if you did, you
just started autopilot doing these things young.
I just started shaving my armpithair as soon as I got an armpit
hair when I was like 11 or 12 because you're supposed to shave

(01:04:08):
your armpit hair to like Millie's Point, same thing.
I was like, yeah, I was shaving my pussy hair.
I was shaving whatever. Like even my arms.
I started shaving my arms when Iwas like 12.
I stopped doing, I stopped shaving my legs for a period of
time. I stopped shaving my arms, I
stopped shaving everything for aperiod of time just to figure
out like, am I doing this for meor am I doing this because of my

(01:04:29):
perception of what I need to be?And let me tell you, the ones
that I have gotten rid of entirely are because I
legitimately like one of the fears driving it was that a man
wouldn't want to have sex with me.
A man's not going to want to have sex with me.
If I have armpit hair, he's not going to want to have sex with
me or go down on me. If I have pussy hair, he's not
going to you be interested in me.

(01:04:50):
If blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.All of those I said fuck that
noise. I would like to filter those men
out. Those are not the men that I
want in my space for me. And then you know what, there's
probably going to be a day when I'm like, you know what, I want
to take a break from that and I will shave it, but it will be
shaved for me. Not so I can be a fuck toy to

(01:05:13):
some random bro on the beach, like.
And I think that's, I think morethan anything, that's if we're
going to look at what is femininity, That's the question
to ask. Are you being the masculinized
version of femininity? Or are you from your own
experience of femininity, whether you're a man, you're a
woman, you're straight, you're gay.
Because I'll say there's even some of this shit if you're a

(01:05:33):
gay woman. Like, gay women are not exempt
from their masculine energy being hijacked and their
perceptions of beauty being warped.
I think we, I think all of us, no matter what gender we're in,
need to like, just sit back and ask this question, like, what do
we think femininity is? And how do we redefine that?

(01:05:53):
And I actually think that's a beautiful part of what your
journey did. It got your husband to look at
that stuff, right? You know, he'd been so
conditioned by porn, and he loves you so much that it was
like the mental model of beauty,the actual beautiful woman in
front of him. And it was, it caused a lot of
dissonance for him and I think areally beautiful, important way.

(01:06:14):
Yeah. Maybe you want to comment on
that briefly before we like end this episode?
Yeah, I'm like, Oh my gosh, it sounds like there's so much left
unsaid. I'm like, we need a freaking
part too. Absolutely.
I'm trying to I'm trying to likespeed track this like year of
transformation in an hour. And I'm like, how am I supposed
to do that? OK, so how how that really

(01:06:35):
affected him and the container of our relationship was was not
expected to me, to be honest, you know, because he was so
passionate about also being a man.
That's a voice for these women. That's like, no, your woman
doesn't need to go through that in order for you to see her as
beautiful and sexy, right? And then like the moment

(01:06:57):
actually comes where I exfa and I shave my head and you know, I
was a vulnerable. Like it sucked me into my 12 to
14 year old self for a solid year and a half.
And you know, of course, if thatis how it's feeling and that's
what I'm embodying, is he gonna see like the beautiful, sexy,
feminine woman that I'm just like aching him to see?

(01:07:19):
Like, no, of course not. Because I'm like sitting in this
state of just utter vulnerability and like I'm my
little 12 year old self that just still hadn't developed
tits. And so that was, it was a big
trial for him as well to it. It was more from a place of
being able for for him to embodywhat he believed right?

(01:07:40):
Because leading up to this, he had got to the state of in the
mind realizing and believing like, no, my wife deserves to be
beautiful and sexy without thesefake tits and without her hair
and, and having that knowledge and that support in the upper
realms of the mind. But to really have that trial of
embodying that belief for him and deconditioning, you know,

(01:08:04):
almost 30 years of 20 years of porn and what he is wired in his
brain to be attracted to and to find sexy.
And that wasn't something that Icould just explant and shave my
head and be like, we've been married for 13 years and we have
children and he's going to love me no matter what.

(01:08:25):
Like, of course he's going to betested through that, but it was
really freaking hard. And I just had to be in this
state of I'm in my own kind of reality and alone and witnessing
and watching him also going through his deconstruction
process of what he sees as beautiful and sexy and feminine

(01:08:45):
because he had to relearn that too, just as I did.
I had to relearn that for myselfwhile at the same time my
partner having to discover that for him.
And ultimately, now we're at this place where I know that he
knows that I'm sexy as fuck and feminine as fuck and, you know,

(01:09:06):
the mother to his children and like, all of the things.
But God damn, it was really rough to kind of like hold his
hand at an arm's length throughout that experience while
also going through that experience of my own.
But it's so beautiful to be ableto witness this man that really

(01:09:27):
can be out of state of really just seeing the beauty and the
femininity in women, regardless of what they look like on the
outside. Because his wife fucking made
him do that. Because I freaking took all of
that away. And I was like, you're gonna
discover what that means, and I will be the catalyst for that
and go through all of that shit.But now he can be at the state.

(01:09:47):
That's like, holy shit. Like he can't believe the
conditioning and programming that he also had in his own mind
of what the feminine is. That's so freaking wonderful.
Thank you so much for sharing all of this and for being such a
beautiful feminine warrior. Before we like conclude, I
really would just love to hear in the simplest way you can

(01:10:10):
think to express in your journeyof femininity.
Like what is it to you right now?
What is it to me right now? I, I think just being in a state
of other, of utter confidence, radical acceptance and power for
yourself. Like it, if you can get to that

(01:10:33):
place within yourself of truly being confident and truly
knowing your power and acceptingand loving yourself, you are
nothing but feminine. The way that you are going to
show up in the world and to movefrom that state of confidence is
femininity. And it's just the utter rawness

(01:10:56):
and authenticity of us as women,because it's our fucking
birthright to stand in our femininity and stand in our
confidence and stand in our power, regardless of what
anybody says that's supposed to look like.
So whatever that looks like for you, whether it's your fake
tits, your waxed pussy, your Botox, your filler, like you can

(01:11:18):
still stand in your femininity and be feminine with that utter
confidence and radical acceptance for yourself.
I love that that is that's like a take it home, bake it in the
oven, eat it for dinner. Love it.
Thank you so much, Kate. This was a really wonderful,
amazing, powerful conversation. I hope our listeners enjoyed it.

(01:11:41):
Can you go ahead and just tell people where they can find you
and connect with you if they resonated?
Yeah, for sure. So I have a tattoo Instagram if
you're interested in art and tattoo and to see my channeled
creations, that's gonna be Sonder Tattoo Co on Instagram.
I share a little bit more of my personal story and the

(01:12:01):
empowerment of women on my personal Instagram.
That is I am Kate Shea. Find me on both of those.
Yeah, follow her. They're totally worth following.
She does her art great, powerfulposting.
Her art is super insane. And yeah, she lives her life in
a really beautiful way that I steal things from all the time.
So thank you everybody so much for listening.

(01:12:25):
As always, please subscribe, like, rate, follow comment.
We're super curious. Like, did we trigger the fuck
out of you? We hope we did.
And if we didn't? We share anyway.
Do your big tits, Yeah. I do you like if you have a
different journey, if you have adifferent experience, like we're
really learning femininity. It is what we want it to be.
So let's share that shit. We love you guys.

(01:12:46):
Later babes, later. Thank you for listening to Babe
Philosophy. If you enjoy the show, please
like, rate and subscribe wherever you listen and follow
us on Instagram at Babe dot Philosophy later.
Babes.