June 26, 2025 • 28 mins
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📚 Summary
In this conversation, Liv and Meli explore the complexities of anger, sharing personal experiences and insights on how anger can be a powerful tool for self-awareness and boundary-setting. They discuss the importance of understanding the roots of anger, the connection between anger and perceived injustice, and how to navigate anger in relationships. The conversation emphasizes the need for emotional expression, venting, and the transformative power of anger when approached with mindfulness and clarity.
🤓 Takeaways
- Anger can be a mask for deeper emotions like sadness.
- Understanding the roots of anger is crucial for personal growth.
- Anger often signals a violation of personal boundaries.
- Venting is an essential part of processing anger.
- People pleasers often harbor unacknowledged anger.
- Anger can motivate us to uphold standards for ourselves.
- Recognizing anger as a call to action is vital.
- Clarity in anger can lead to healthier communication.
- Self-awareness is key to managing anger effectively.
- Navigating anger requires both emotional expression and reflection.
⌛ Chapters
00:00 Dope Offers for You
01:47 Our First Solo Pod TOGETHER!
02:43 Exploring Anger: Personal Experiences
04:03 Understanding the Roots of Anger
07:19 The Connection Between Anger and Injustice
10:57 Anger as a Call to Action
14:06 Cultural Perspectives on Anger
16:38 Listening to Anger: A Path to Clarity
20:22 Micro and Macro Expressions of Anger
22:41 Venting and Processing Anger
26:22 The Grounding Nature of Clear Anger
28:08 Outro
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What is up babes? We are super excited.
We have something super special for you that we've been working
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(00:21):
reflection, stories, our own experience, and some rituals in
there for you to really get connected to your deepest inner
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Per the Babe Philosophy brand, we are calling your inner
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right there on the top there is a little thing for you to put
(00:43):
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(01:05):
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Woohoo, this is babe philosophy.Podcast where questions matter
(01:29):
more than answers, where liminalspaces are revered, and where
magic is practical. We are your hosts, Mellie Wolf,
and live wickedly welcome. To babe Palasa.
(01:51):
It's a solo episode and we're inthe same room.
We're in the same room. We did it.
We fucking did it. OK, well, I got here and we
tried to do a setup and nothing fucking worked.
How long was I working on that? Like 4 hours. 5 hours fucking my
time. Yeah.
And then I had to do like 80 Amazon returns.
But here we are now we figured it out.
(02:12):
It's working. It's so cute.
It's so pink. Yeah, we love it.
I did a Instagram story on like the behind the scenes so y'all
know what it is. You know what the fuck he said.
OK, so today we wanted to talk about what is my anger telling
me. I specifically mentioned maybe
(02:33):
we talked about this because anger, rage, hatred, fury have
all been coming up for me prettyintensely.
I think I even used the word disdain yesterday.
And I something that caught my attention was like when I've
talked to you about your relationship to anger, you
shared with me that you went through a period of time where
you were just angry all the time.
(02:54):
And so now you're more mindful of your anger and the.
Majority of my life. Yeah, you were just angry all
the time. And I'm in this era where I'm
like going, what is this? Oh, I'm angry.
Oh, I'm game angry because I used to just adapt by turning my
anger into literally anything else.
Primarily anxiety. It's the main thing I used to
turn my anger into, but I'll turn it into anything else and
(03:15):
be confused by what's happening.Until I realized, oh, I'm mad.
And I was married to someone forseven plus years.
And it wasn't until we were getting separated that I was
like, I've never told this man. He's made me angrier that I'm
angry with him. And that's fucking insane.
We've been together for eight years, married for seven.
I've definitely been angry at this fucker.
And that was in 2019. So here we are six years later
(03:37):
and I'm just now like, what do Ido with anger?
What is it telling me? Yeah, it's a big, it's a big
one. What's our question?
What is my anger telling me? Yeah, it is.
Yeah, that's the question. So I actually I I'm curious.
I'm curious because I kind of like shared a little bit about
my experience in like surface level yours.
(03:58):
But when you were like kind of angry all the time, what did
that look like for you? It was.
So it was so not an experience of anger like the one that
you're experiencing right now, where you're actually connecting
to it and communing with it. My experience of anger was like
this repressed like victimy likeI felt like the world was out to
(04:22):
get me. I felt like everybody had a
problem with me. I felt like I wasn't allowed to
do or be or say anything I wanted to do or be or say.
And that created this like kind of like victim me combative
energy. So whenever anybody like
questioned me, I was very like snappy and reactive.
(04:43):
If anybody like told me what to do, I kind of like assumed the
worst. Like I just really got into this
place of like assuming the worst, being very victimized,
kind of throwing, like doing a lot of like cold shouldering, a
lot of like burning bridges, a lot of like.
And this was just like who I, I was for like probably from the
(05:05):
age of like 12 to 22, maybe evenlonger 25.
So I mean, I was angry and that presented, but I didn't connect
to that. I didn't understand that until
much more recently, because it'slike, you know that you can tell
(05:27):
when you're communi communicating or interacting
with an angry person, you know? And especially when you're
communicating, you're interacting with an angry person
who doesn't know they're angry. You know what I mean?
That's my favorite. Yeah, dude, that's just wild.
You are like, you're like, oh hey, like do you mind moving
over so that I could like get byor whatever?
And they're like. Whatever you God, you're so
(05:47):
rude. Like, mind your own business.
Like I'm doing exactly what I'm supposed to be doing.
And they, like, pop off at you and you're like, OK, this is not
about me. Like you are angry.
You're very angry, and that's kind of how I was.
OK, so it's like your anger was more of like a shield.
It was just the first filter that you greeted.
The world with and underneath that like if we're talking about
(06:09):
what anger is telling us, like underneath that was just my pain
and my fear of inadequacy and myfear of being too much and not
enough. You know the classic tale as all
this time it's like the anger for me was masking the sadness
of feeling like I didn't belong and didn't fit in.
Yeah, OK, so I love this becauseI'm thinking about the
(06:33):
technical, emotionally intelligent definition of anger
is perceiving injustice. And so I'm thinking about how if
you roll back to the original wounding, right, which was like
feeling like you don't belong, feeling unworthy, fear of
abandonment, all those things coming up, at some point, you
(06:53):
can only, you can only hold thatfor so long and it has to go
somewhere. You have to do something with
it. And so it makes sense to me that
at some point it would become somuch that you might literally
go, this is fucking unfair. Like, why is this happening to
me? Did you remember having any like
existential? Like, what the fuck is this?
Why does this keep happening to me?
Yeah, I think I was kind of always existential and I don't
(07:16):
think that was like a big moment.
I think for me, it was like I, Ialways compared myself to my
sister. I always was like, why is she
always better than me? And, and not just my sister, but
also like it started with my sister, right?
She was the first one. And then that translated to like
my best friend in kindergarten had another best friend.
So and then we were like a trio,but it was really just me and
(07:38):
the other best friend competing for the main best friend's
attention. And it was just constantly like
me being like, why? Why is she choosing?
Why is she choosing her and not me?
You know, why does why do my parents like my sister more than
me? Like my sister was the one who
has always behaved And like, so it was like a lot of that, like,
why is nobody caring for me or loving me or wanting me?
(08:00):
And that was very much like the core wounding of it.
And then, yeah, I mean, ultimately what my yeah, what
what I came to later on in life and much more recently is like
this awareness around, oh, OK, what was happening there was I
(08:21):
wasn't taking responsibility from my experience.
I wasn't taking any kind of own ownership over my life.
And that doesn't mean that I'm responsible for these people not
showing up for me in the way I want to be showed up for.
But I let that bleed into everything I did.
So I would not go talk to that group of girls because I had
this idea that, well, my sister's better than me.
(08:44):
Oh well, like my best friend's other best friend is better than
me, so why would these girls want to talk to me?
I would exclude myself from things on purpose and like wait
for people to come to me to invite.
Me. Well, you're fuming and angry
and so inviting. Be mad about it, you know what I
mean? It's just like, OK, well, there
was like a huge missed opportunity there so many, so
many times over and over and over and over and over again
(09:06):
where I just didn't step forwardbecause I was playing this
narrative in my head that like, no, everyone's going to reject
me. And it just kept fueling the
anger, right? Because I would reject.
Myself before anybody had the chance to reject me and that
just made me more mad because I was having the experience of
(09:28):
being rejected, but I was rejecting myself.
So ultimately my anger is like, Yo, you're doing it wrong.
Like, and also you need to put yourself in situations where you
can recreate the story for yourself because the experiences
that you're having are not contributing to the lived
experience that you want to have.
(09:49):
But that's I, I mean, I think there's so many different
messages that I could parse out in my own experience of anger.
And that's just like 1. I feel like, like you said, what
did you say was the definition? Perceiving injustice.
Perceived injustice. Right.
Yeah. And then, yeah.
And then I think another way to say that is like boundary
(10:10):
crossing. Right.
Yeah, absolutely. Somebody crosses your
boundaries, then you're going tobe angry.
And the message there is like, how can you stand up for
yourself? How can you be integris with
yourself so that you don't have to be placed small in the face
of this person, this thing, thisexperience, this, whatever.
(10:31):
And I feel like that is like theuniversal message of anger is
like you are not showing. It's not that other person did
this thing to me, which is a part of it.
And yes, you're allowed to be angry for that.
But the really the core course you want to get to the core core
message of anger. It is how did you show up in
(10:52):
that container where you didn't hold your boundary and you let
that person do that bad thing toyou?
And I feel like that's really relevant to your experience that
you're having right now in your past relationship where, yeah,
he didn't treat you right. He didn't treat you fairly.
He you know, you felt betrayed in so many ways, and you allowed
(11:14):
that. Behavior, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I so and so my experience, Iwould say I, I really did not
connect to my anger in any kind of productive or consistent way
until this relationship. And not just it's ending during
it. And I will give him mad, mad
credit. He held a lot of really
beautiful space for me to express and emote and feel and
(11:37):
my anger in particular. And when he was at his absolute
best, there were times when he would literally just like sit on
the floor and he would hold his arms out like this and just let
me fucking pop off about whatever.
And sometimes it was actually athim.
So it was a really beautiful space.
All that to say, I was like little Bambi legged person
expressing anger, feeling into anger.
(11:58):
And it would take so much for meto get to that line where I was
like, I can't handle this anymore.
And by that point, I'm so far past the point where I betrayed
myself. It was like, OK, if this is like
the line where I betrayed myself, I'm so over here in my
capacity that the line looks like a dot.
It doesn't even look like a line.
(12:19):
So I've had to like work my way back, work my way back.
I want to say it probably took me maybe like 6 or seven months
after the breakup last year to really start sitting and fuck, I
did this to myself. Fuck.
I, I can, I, I can watch myself walk right into the trap, see
it's a trap. Put my foot in it.
Anyway, I like, I can see all ofthese things.
(12:40):
I don't think there's like ever and all or nothing where it's
like it's always my fault and I always set myself up right
because I think there are times where you know, somebody's just
done a super shit like OK, my dad hitting me when I was 3 and
crying. Fuck that guy.
In this situation where I'm an adult woman who's like
constantly repeating the same behavior over and over and over
(13:02):
again, I sitting here now can tell you ignoring my anger, not
listening to my anger, repressing my anger, turning my
anger into anxiety or insecurityso that I could prove something
or whatever. All of that ended up being one
of the most detrimental things Icould have done for myself or
him or that relationship. Because if I had actually
(13:23):
listened to my anger, listen to what it was telling me, I would
have, to your point, discovered my boundaries are being crossed
and I would have left. Like in the first month and a
half I would have fucking left. I think that all the time about
my relationship too, to be honest with you, and we're still
together. Oh my God.
(13:45):
But the beginning of our relationship was not cool.
Like it was not. There were boundaries crossed
left and right and like, we worked on it and we were paired
together and we decided, yeah, but if.
You were if you were single now you'd be like and not pop up
with that I'd. Be like fuck this I am out my.
Guy Yeah. And I I just, I think there
there's something in our culture.
(14:06):
I I noticed and this again, thisis a massive generalization, but
in general I noticed that women are very discouraged from
feeling and expressing their anger and men are overly
encouraged to identify with and express their anger.
But in general. And women are more encouraged to
feel their emotions, and men arediscouraged from feeling their.
Emotions. Yeah.
(14:26):
They're more encouraged to, you know, just beat you up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look what my my brother always
used to say, like the things I was allowed to be were hungry,
angry and horny. Those are like the three things
he was always allowed to do. And then he would be a man.
And then anything else outside of that, depending on where he
was, wasn't safe, wasn't OK, wasn't cool.
And I obvious that to me, the violence that comes from that is
(14:47):
so obvious, but then the violence that comes from playing
victim, the violence that comes from being a woman who doesn't
have access to her anger and also has no clue what's fucking
happening when her boundaries are being violated.
That is that's a mind fuck kind of violence.
And I do think that that starts to come out in like really
manipulative, dark, feminine, shadowy ways.
(15:09):
And that's also something I've had to reconcile with was I had
to be getting my power back somehow, right?
There's all like the all energy in the universe is always
looking for homeostasis. It's always looking for balance.
So if I'm in my own conscious mind, violating myself,
violating myself, violating myself, creating space and
allowing this other person who says they love me to violate me
(15:30):
over and over again, my subconscious, my shadow self is
going to try to get my power back, get some kind of sense of
control back. And I also had to look at the
just like amount of manipulationthat I participated in,
specifically using sex to get attention, keep attention.
But there were there were times where I would like, passively
plant a seed here or there and then wait a little bit and then
(15:52):
like plant another seed. Like I would be like plotting
instead of just like saying whatthe fuck I meant.
And I'd be like, well, I'm goingto do this and then I'm going to
buy this. And then I'm going to clean
this. And then I'm going to be naked
at the door when it comes in. And then, you know, I'm like
crafting a plan, like scheming instead of just being like, hey,
this is how I feel and this is what I want.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I, I think what I'm feeling, my anger is telling me right now
(16:15):
is to fucking shut up and listen.
It's like, hey, this is intense and it's loud and I need you to
fucking listen like. It's telling you to listen to
it. Yes, yeah.
What is that voice saying? And not just take it at face
value because often it speaks inprojection, but like, what is
that part of me trying to communicate to me?
(16:36):
And I think, you know, to your point, there's some wound or
some, something that hurts that probably wants and needs some
tending to. And then there's like a, an
action on my part that needs to happen.
And I think that's the difference between like feeling
anger and it's like actual fullness and or just skimming
across the top, which that's either skimming across the top
(16:56):
in my case to like get enough out the pot that I'm not going
to boil over and I can pretend I'm not angry or skimming across
the top and just taking surface level and being like, who wants
to fucking fight me now? Yeah.
Yeah, I think that I think you're hitting the nail on the
head. Like what anger really is
telling us is it's just generally a call to action.
And what that action is is really going to depend on like
(17:17):
who you are, where you're at, and like what your level of
consciousness is in this world. Because if you're angry, there's
going to be and, and you are a very unconscious human.
I think the call to action is going to be, I'm going to just
beat up the next person that fucking gets in my face.
You know what I mean? And then if you're a very
conscious person and you're angry, like you are going to get
(17:39):
to the center point of like, OK,like I'm not going to fucking
take that shit from anybody anymore ever again.
I deserve fucking better. This is my fucking boundary.
Nobody crosses this wall. I am building this for myself
because I deserve this and fuck no like that is not OK with me.
I am holding this line for myself and whatever action is
(18:02):
required to do so. I gave this reflection to live
just yesterday because when Liv first went through her breakup,
she was very angry. And that anger felt, it felt
almost like, yeah, I felt like more of a projection of like,
this person did these things. It's very reactive anger, right?
(18:27):
Yeah, it's reactive. It's like projecting and like
maybe there's more of like a victim mentality to it.
Yeah. Whereas there and then like the
anger that I'm experiencing and live right now because she's
still angry. This thing still fucking pisses
her off. This man still fucking pisses
her. Off because he just recently
lied to me again. So but now this anger feels like
(18:50):
what I sense and live. What I feel in you is like that.
This anger is actually motivating you and moving you to
uphold a standard for yourself. Yes, yes.
And I would say that that's, I can feel the difference in it
because even yesterday when I was like, I was able to actually
hold the anger and I didn't haveto do something about it.
(19:14):
I wanted to because it was so intense.
I wanted to like run for 8 milesand just run until I collapsed
or punch something or murder something.
But I didn't have to do it. I didn't feel like I I just
right because you. Know that the doing is a
standard that you're holding, yes, as opposed to somebody that
(19:35):
you have to beat up or a marathon that you.
Have to yes, yes, yes. It was like I could do that with
this energy, but I just honestly, I sat there with it
and I listened to it for like 6 or 7 hours.
It was on loud and I just listened and I listened and I
listened and I it's, it's reallywhat you're saying.
It's this very resolute no more.I will never, ever, ever again
(19:57):
do any of those things to myself.
I won't make those choices again, and I won't allow someone
else who's making these choices for themselves to come into my
space. Right.
And, and, and that can happen ona micro level too.
I think this is a pretty macro experience.
But on a micro level, like for myself, even when I'm just
having day-to-day conversations with Matt and I'll say, you
know, he'll ask me to do something.
(20:18):
Maybe he did do the dishes. I don't know, something fucking
basic and I will say yes and I will instantly, instantly be
fucking pissed. I'll be angry.
Like I will feel anger in my body and I will immediately know
because anger is a sign of like,OK, there is a boundary that
(20:39):
you're not withholding here. You just agree, bypass yourself
in some way. And in the past, I would blame
Matt. I would get mad at him, be like,
why would you ask me to do dishes?
You know, I have so much to do. But it's like, that's not his
responsibility. Yeah, Why did you say yes to the
dishes, exactly? Because you know you have this
much to do. Exactly.
I know my schedule, I know what's on my plate.
(21:01):
I know that I could say no and he'd probably be fine with it.
You know what I mean? So that is, I think that's just
like a very, very micro straightforward example of what
anger is doing, what anger is here for, what anger is trying
to tell you is check yourself because you're probably saying
something's OK that isn't and what are you gonna do about
(21:23):
that? Yeah, and I'm just gonna throw
this out there and I'm going to look directly into the camera
for this. If you are a people pleaser, you
are fucking angry. You are so unendingly,
egregiously fucking angry. And if you're listening or
watching this and going like, no, I'm not.
(21:44):
I've never been angry in my life.
I am always calm and peaceful and loving.
You're lying to yourself. That's.
True, you cannot get away with violating your own boundaries.
You cannot get away with self betrayal.
It just doesn't fucking work. You could be disconnected from
your. Anger.
You can be disconnected. You can be manifesting it in
physical ailments, mental disorders, autoimmune diseases,
(22:06):
tumors, fatigue. What are the Woody Harrelson or
something? Says like, I don't get angry, I
just grow a tumor. Yeah, like, there you go.
Like, there's so many other waysthat you can tamp down and
digest your anger. But if you are someone who is
constantly showing up for other people at the expense of
yourself, there is anger in there, and it's probably worth
doing some excavation, some connection, some practice of
(22:28):
some sort. Yeah.
And I would say just for my own experience and my own journey of
navigating anger and what it means and what it is like for I
found it so useful to 1st like Iwould journal like all of the
reasons I was angry at this person, all the ways they
wronged me, all of the petty shit, all of the.
(22:49):
And she did this and she did that.
And how could they possibly think it was OK to do that?
You know, just all the shit. And then once that's out, that's
when you can access the like, OK, where did I let this happen?
And what could I have done different to avoid letting this
happen to myself? Because ultimately, my
responsibility is to protect myself from this kind of
(23:11):
bullshit. Yeah, I think that's a really
great practice to. I think, I think the venting
piece is actually really crucialand really important and I.
Live and I vent to each other all the.
Time yeah and and and literally I'll make sure I say like, hey,
I am not going to be my highest self.
Please do not fucking correct me.
I will do that work after. I just need to be human as fuck
right now and just say what my human experience is.
So this week, yesterday, yeah, because I just I was like, if
(23:33):
that's the other thing is like Ican do all the
intellectualization up here. I can get into the higher
perspective in my mind, but I'm not going anywhere if my body's
not coming with me. That's just the way it fucking
works. Basically what I'm getting at is
I think, well, OK, I'm just going to speak for myself.
I used to really fucking struggle to vent because
especially with my people, please, air conditioning, but
(23:54):
also just being aware that I want to be a person who's kind
and compassionate and understanding and empathetic.
And again, it's like bypassing myself to not actually drop into
the experience, feel the experience, and then express the
experience however the experience wants to be
expressed. And especially at the beginning
of navigating an emotion, any fucking emotion, it doesn't
(24:16):
always come out very cute or pretty or.
Elegant. Yeah, like it's like not even
coherent half the time. Like sometimes it's just like
he's just fucking dog like. Exactly.
Like that? Like Homer?
Simpson yes, yes. But the the yeah, the venting
piece is like deeply, deeply important.
I think writing things down is really beautiful, especially if
(24:38):
your brain is like fucking racing.
The writing down can really likedrop you in, slow you down.
It can help you access your subconscious as well.
So I love that advice. I think that's great.
All right, well, we're getting, we're getting to the end of the
time here for this particular day.
Yeah, we're just doing a quick one.
We just wanted to talk about this because it's been really
relevant in my sphere and Mellie's been resonating with a
(25:00):
lot of what I've been sharing. So just want to talk about anger
because we've talked about a lotof other fucking.
Things the the last thing I would do want to add though,
because I just felt like this was a fucking powerful nugget
that I experienced for the firsttime ever in my life.
Yesterday when Liv was telling me about her anger and what she
(25:21):
was experiencing, I was having my own experience.
I was like very, I was having just like a moment and I read
her angry text that was not directed at me, but no it.
Was just. It was to the man.
Expressing her anger and I felt so grounded by it.
And what I mean by that is I felt literally calmer and more
(25:44):
clear in myself connecting to her anger because her anger felt
so clear for her. Her anger felt so like this is
the line that was crossed that was not OK to cross and I'm
never letting that should happenagain.
And like just seeing somebody inthat kind of clarity when you're
not feeling clear or grounded inyourself is like, thank you for
(26:06):
that gift. So that's something to note
about anger is that if you are actually connected to like the
meaning of it and the truth of it, it should actually feel
grounding and not like it's spinning you out.
If it's spinning you out, that'sOK too.
That's part of it. But you're not at the like the
juice yet. You're not at the message yet.
(26:27):
If it's spinning you out, you have to go through that process.
That's when you talk to your girlfriend and you're like,
bitch, I just need to fucking vent.
That's when you go to your journal.
That's when you scream into yourpillow.
That's when you fucking rage andhit shit and listen to blink 182
or whatever Metal for me is blink 182.
But then when you're in the phase of anger, that's like, oh
fuck, this is this is what happened.
(26:49):
This is what went wrong. This is where I said OK to
something that was not OK. That fucking shit ain't
happening. No mole.
That shit feels super fucking clear and super fucking clear,
super fucking grounded. So there's different like phases
of anger that like offer different pearls or experiences.
Yeah, I know. I'm gonna, I didn't even think
(27:11):
about this, but I'm just gonna like button this up with a.
It actually felt that way to me when I sent the message I got,
I, I was rageful and I sat in that until I dropped into my
body and I was like, I see this for what the fuck it is.
And I think if you read the words, maybe you pick up on the
energy, maybe you don't. But I said that deadly calm.
It was like, Nope, this is exactly how I see you.
(27:33):
This is exactly how I feel aboutyou.
And this will never ever happen again.
I promise you that goodbye. And it actually felt that way to
me. I mean, I was angry, but I
wasn't like berserker angry. I'm going to tear things apart,
right? Yeah.
It was. It was grounded.
Yeah, for sure. OK.
I feel like that's a good spot to end.
All right, Ben, we love you. We love you too.
(27:54):
Like and subscribe. Rate Share with your friends.
At babes dot Philosophy hey. To babes.
We love you. Oh.
You did the millennial. I didn't do that.
And we're Gen. Z cool now.
Thank you for listening to Babe Philosophy.
If you enjoy the show, please like, rate and subscribe
(28:15):
wherever you listen and follow us on Instagram at Babe dot
Philosophy. Later babes.
What is up babes? We are super excited.
We have something super special for you that we've been working
on for a long ass time and it iscalled a Grimoire, basically a
witchy ebook. Yeah, pretty much.
It comes from a long standing tradition of people writing
things down and passing them on.And the idea is that we have
(00:21):
reflection, stories, our own experience, and some rituals in
there for you to really get connected to your deepest inner
truths and figure out who you are from your own inner
philosophy. Fuck yeah.
Per the Babe Philosophy brand, we are calling your inner
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So. If you go to babephilosophy.com,
right there on the top there is a little thing for you to put
(00:43):
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We just had Doctor Adam Hodgkisson our podcast and learned how
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understand your biomarkers. I check my biomarkers all the
(01:05):
time. Liv is newly inspired to check
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Woohoo, this is babe philosophy.Podcast where questions matter
(01:29):
more than answers, where liminalspaces are revered, and where
magic is practical. We are your hosts, Mellie Wolf,
and live wickedly welcome. To babe Palasa.
(01:51):
It's a solo episode and we're inthe same room.
We're in the same room. We did it.
We fucking did it. OK, well, I got here and we
tried to do a setup and nothing fucking worked.
How long was I working on that? Like 4 hours. 5 hours fucking my
time. Yeah.
And then I had to do like 80 Amazon returns.
But here we are now we figured it out.
(02:12):
It's working. It's so cute.
It's so pink. Yeah, we love it.
I did a Instagram story on like the behind the scenes so y'all
know what it is. You know what the fuck he said.
OK, so today we wanted to talk about what is my anger telling
me. I specifically mentioned maybe
(02:33):
we talked about this because anger, rage, hatred, fury have
all been coming up for me prettyintensely.
I think I even used the word disdain yesterday.
And I something that caught my attention was like when I've
talked to you about your relationship to anger, you
shared with me that you went through a period of time where
you were just angry all the time.
(02:54):
And so now you're more mindful of your anger and the.
Majority of my life. Yeah, you were just angry all
the time. And I'm in this era where I'm
like going, what is this? Oh, I'm angry.
Oh, I'm game angry because I used to just adapt by turning my
anger into literally anything else.
Primarily anxiety. It's the main thing I used to
turn my anger into, but I'll turn it into anything else and
(03:15):
be confused by what's happening.Until I realized, oh, I'm mad.
And I was married to someone forseven plus years.
And it wasn't until we were getting separated that I was
like, I've never told this man. He's made me angrier that I'm
angry with him. And that's fucking insane.
We've been together for eight years, married for seven.
I've definitely been angry at this fucker.
And that was in 2019. So here we are six years later
(03:37):
and I'm just now like, what do Ido with anger?
What is it telling me? Yeah, it's a big, it's a big
one. What's our question?
What is my anger telling me? Yeah, it is.
Yeah, that's the question. So I actually I I'm curious.
I'm curious because I kind of like shared a little bit about
my experience in like surface level yours.
(03:58):
But when you were like kind of angry all the time, what did
that look like for you? It was.
So it was so not an experience of anger like the one that
you're experiencing right now, where you're actually connecting
to it and communing with it. My experience of anger was like
this repressed like victimy likeI felt like the world was out to
(04:22):
get me. I felt like everybody had a
problem with me. I felt like I wasn't allowed to
do or be or say anything I wanted to do or be or say.
And that created this like kind of like victim me combative
energy. So whenever anybody like
questioned me, I was very like snappy and reactive.
(04:43):
If anybody like told me what to do, I kind of like assumed the
worst. Like I just really got into this
place of like assuming the worst, being very victimized,
kind of throwing, like doing a lot of like cold shouldering, a
lot of like burning bridges, a lot of like.
And this was just like who I, I was for like probably from the
(05:05):
age of like 12 to 22, maybe evenlonger 25.
So I mean, I was angry and that presented, but I didn't connect
to that. I didn't understand that until
much more recently, because it'slike, you know that you can tell
(05:27):
when you're communi communicating or interacting
with an angry person, you know? And especially when you're
communicating, you're interacting with an angry person
who doesn't know they're angry. You know what I mean?
That's my favorite. Yeah, dude, that's just wild.
You are like, you're like, oh hey, like do you mind moving
over so that I could like get byor whatever?
And they're like. Whatever you God, you're so
(05:47):
rude. Like, mind your own business.
Like I'm doing exactly what I'm supposed to be doing.
And they, like, pop off at you and you're like, OK, this is not
about me. Like you are angry.
You're very angry, and that's kind of how I was.
OK, so it's like your anger was more of like a shield.
It was just the first filter that you greeted.
The world with and underneath that like if we're talking about
(06:09):
what anger is telling us, like underneath that was just my pain
and my fear of inadequacy and myfear of being too much and not
enough. You know the classic tale as all
this time it's like the anger for me was masking the sadness
of feeling like I didn't belong and didn't fit in.
Yeah, OK, so I love this becauseI'm thinking about the
(06:33):
technical, emotionally intelligent definition of anger
is perceiving injustice. And so I'm thinking about how if
you roll back to the original wounding, right, which was like
feeling like you don't belong, feeling unworthy, fear of
abandonment, all those things coming up, at some point, you
(06:53):
can only, you can only hold thatfor so long and it has to go
somewhere. You have to do something with
it. And so it makes sense to me that
at some point it would become somuch that you might literally
go, this is fucking unfair. Like, why is this happening to
me? Did you remember having any like
existential? Like, what the fuck is this?
Why does this keep happening to me?
Yeah, I think I was kind of always existential and I don't
(07:16):
think that was like a big moment.
I think for me, it was like I, Ialways compared myself to my
sister. I always was like, why is she
always better than me? And, and not just my sister, but
also like it started with my sister, right?
She was the first one. And then that translated to like
my best friend in kindergarten had another best friend.
So and then we were like a trio,but it was really just me and
(07:38):
the other best friend competing for the main best friend's
attention. And it was just constantly like
me being like, why? Why is she choosing?
Why is she choosing her and not me?
You know, why does why do my parents like my sister more than
me? Like my sister was the one who
has always behaved And like, so it was like a lot of that, like,
why is nobody caring for me or loving me or wanting me?
(08:00):
And that was very much like the core wounding of it.
And then, yeah, I mean, ultimately what my yeah, what
what I came to later on in life and much more recently is like
this awareness around, oh, OK, what was happening there was I
(08:21):
wasn't taking responsibility from my experience.
I wasn't taking any kind of own ownership over my life.
And that doesn't mean that I'm responsible for these people not
showing up for me in the way I want to be showed up for.
But I let that bleed into everything I did.
So I would not go talk to that group of girls because I had
this idea that, well, my sister's better than me.
(08:44):
Oh well, like my best friend's other best friend is better than
me, so why would these girls want to talk to me?
I would exclude myself from things on purpose and like wait
for people to come to me to invite.
Me. Well, you're fuming and angry
and so inviting. Be mad about it, you know what I
mean? It's just like, OK, well, there
was like a huge missed opportunity there so many, so
many times over and over and over and over and over again
(09:06):
where I just didn't step forwardbecause I was playing this
narrative in my head that like, no, everyone's going to reject
me. And it just kept fueling the
anger, right? Because I would reject.
Myself before anybody had the chance to reject me and that
just made me more mad because I was having the experience of
(09:28):
being rejected, but I was rejecting myself.
So ultimately my anger is like, Yo, you're doing it wrong.
Like, and also you need to put yourself in situations where you
can recreate the story for yourself because the experiences
that you're having are not contributing to the lived
experience that you want to have.
(09:49):
But that's I, I mean, I think there's so many different
messages that I could parse out in my own experience of anger.
And that's just like 1. I feel like, like you said, what
did you say was the definition? Perceiving injustice.
Perceived injustice. Right.
Yeah. And then, yeah.
And then I think another way to say that is like boundary
(10:10):
crossing. Right.
Yeah, absolutely. Somebody crosses your
boundaries, then you're going tobe angry.
And the message there is like, how can you stand up for
yourself? How can you be integris with
yourself so that you don't have to be placed small in the face
of this person, this thing, thisexperience, this, whatever.
(10:31):
And I feel like that is like theuniversal message of anger is
like you are not showing. It's not that other person did
this thing to me, which is a part of it.
And yes, you're allowed to be angry for that.
But the really the core course you want to get to the core core
message of anger. It is how did you show up in
(10:52):
that container where you didn't hold your boundary and you let
that person do that bad thing toyou?
And I feel like that's really relevant to your experience that
you're having right now in your past relationship where, yeah,
he didn't treat you right. He didn't treat you fairly.
He you know, you felt betrayed in so many ways, and you allowed
(11:14):
that. Behavior, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I so and so my experience, Iwould say I, I really did not
connect to my anger in any kind of productive or consistent way
until this relationship. And not just it's ending during
it. And I will give him mad, mad
credit. He held a lot of really
beautiful space for me to express and emote and feel and
(11:37):
my anger in particular. And when he was at his absolute
best, there were times when he would literally just like sit on
the floor and he would hold his arms out like this and just let
me fucking pop off about whatever.
And sometimes it was actually athim.
So it was a really beautiful space.
All that to say, I was like little Bambi legged person
expressing anger, feeling into anger.
(11:58):
And it would take so much for meto get to that line where I was
like, I can't handle this anymore.
And by that point, I'm so far past the point where I betrayed
myself. It was like, OK, if this is like
the line where I betrayed myself, I'm so over here in my
capacity that the line looks like a dot.
It doesn't even look like a line.
(12:19):
So I've had to like work my way back, work my way back.
I want to say it probably took me maybe like 6 or seven months
after the breakup last year to really start sitting and fuck, I
did this to myself. Fuck.
I, I can, I, I can watch myself walk right into the trap, see
it's a trap. Put my foot in it.
Anyway, I like, I can see all ofthese things.
(12:40):
I don't think there's like ever and all or nothing where it's
like it's always my fault and I always set myself up right
because I think there are times where you know, somebody's just
done a super shit like OK, my dad hitting me when I was 3 and
crying. Fuck that guy.
In this situation where I'm an adult woman who's like
constantly repeating the same behavior over and over and over
(13:02):
again, I sitting here now can tell you ignoring my anger, not
listening to my anger, repressing my anger, turning my
anger into anxiety or insecurityso that I could prove something
or whatever. All of that ended up being one
of the most detrimental things Icould have done for myself or
him or that relationship. Because if I had actually
(13:23):
listened to my anger, listen to what it was telling me, I would
have, to your point, discovered my boundaries are being crossed
and I would have left. Like in the first month and a
half I would have fucking left. I think that all the time about
my relationship too, to be honest with you, and we're still
together. Oh my God.
(13:45):
But the beginning of our relationship was not cool.
Like it was not. There were boundaries crossed
left and right and like, we worked on it and we were paired
together and we decided, yeah, but if.
You were if you were single now you'd be like and not pop up
with that I'd. Be like fuck this I am out my.
Guy Yeah. And I I just, I think there
there's something in our culture.
(14:06):
I I noticed and this again, thisis a massive generalization, but
in general I noticed that women are very discouraged from
feeling and expressing their anger and men are overly
encouraged to identify with and express their anger.
But in general. And women are more encouraged to
feel their emotions, and men arediscouraged from feeling their.
Emotions. Yeah.
(14:26):
They're more encouraged to, you know, just beat you up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look what my my brother always
used to say, like the things I was allowed to be were hungry,
angry and horny. Those are like the three things
he was always allowed to do. And then he would be a man.
And then anything else outside of that, depending on where he
was, wasn't safe, wasn't OK, wasn't cool.
And I obvious that to me, the violence that comes from that is
(14:47):
so obvious, but then the violence that comes from playing
victim, the violence that comes from being a woman who doesn't
have access to her anger and also has no clue what's fucking
happening when her boundaries are being violated.
That is that's a mind fuck kind of violence.
And I do think that that starts to come out in like really
manipulative, dark, feminine, shadowy ways.
(15:09):
And that's also something I've had to reconcile with was I had
to be getting my power back somehow, right?
There's all like the all energy in the universe is always
looking for homeostasis. It's always looking for balance.
So if I'm in my own conscious mind, violating myself,
violating myself, violating myself, creating space and
allowing this other person who says they love me to violate me
(15:30):
over and over again, my subconscious, my shadow self is
going to try to get my power back, get some kind of sense of
control back. And I also had to look at the
just like amount of manipulationthat I participated in,
specifically using sex to get attention, keep attention.
But there were there were times where I would like, passively
plant a seed here or there and then wait a little bit and then
(15:52):
like plant another seed. Like I would be like plotting
instead of just like saying whatthe fuck I meant.
And I'd be like, well, I'm goingto do this and then I'm going to
buy this. And then I'm going to clean
this. And then I'm going to be naked
at the door when it comes in. And then, you know, I'm like
crafting a plan, like scheming instead of just being like, hey,
this is how I feel and this is what I want.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I, I think what I'm feeling, my anger is telling me right now
(16:15):
is to fucking shut up and listen.
It's like, hey, this is intense and it's loud and I need you to
fucking listen like. It's telling you to listen to
it. Yes, yeah.
What is that voice saying? And not just take it at face
value because often it speaks inprojection, but like, what is
that part of me trying to communicate to me?
(16:36):
And I think, you know, to your point, there's some wound or
some, something that hurts that probably wants and needs some
tending to. And then there's like a, an
action on my part that needs to happen.
And I think that's the difference between like feeling
anger and it's like actual fullness and or just skimming
across the top, which that's either skimming across the top
(16:56):
in my case to like get enough out the pot that I'm not going
to boil over and I can pretend I'm not angry or skimming across
the top and just taking surface level and being like, who wants
to fucking fight me now? Yeah.
Yeah, I think that I think you're hitting the nail on the
head. Like what anger really is
telling us is it's just generally a call to action.
And what that action is is really going to depend on like
(17:17):
who you are, where you're at, and like what your level of
consciousness is in this world. Because if you're angry, there's
going to be and, and you are a very unconscious human.
I think the call to action is going to be, I'm going to just
beat up the next person that fucking gets in my face.
You know what I mean? And then if you're a very
conscious person and you're angry, like you are going to get
(17:39):
to the center point of like, OK,like I'm not going to fucking
take that shit from anybody anymore ever again.
I deserve fucking better. This is my fucking boundary.
Nobody crosses this wall. I am building this for myself
because I deserve this and fuck no like that is not OK with me.
I am holding this line for myself and whatever action is
(18:02):
required to do so. I gave this reflection to live
just yesterday because when Liv first went through her breakup,
she was very angry. And that anger felt, it felt
almost like, yeah, I felt like more of a projection of like,
this person did these things. It's very reactive anger, right?
(18:27):
Yeah, it's reactive. It's like projecting and like
maybe there's more of like a victim mentality to it.
Yeah. Whereas there and then like the
anger that I'm experiencing and live right now because she's
still angry. This thing still fucking pisses
her off. This man still fucking pisses
her. Off because he just recently
lied to me again. So but now this anger feels like
(18:50):
what I sense and live. What I feel in you is like that.
This anger is actually motivating you and moving you to
uphold a standard for yourself. Yes, yes.
And I would say that that's, I can feel the difference in it
because even yesterday when I was like, I was able to actually
hold the anger and I didn't haveto do something about it.
(19:14):
I wanted to because it was so intense.
I wanted to like run for 8 milesand just run until I collapsed
or punch something or murder something.
But I didn't have to do it. I didn't feel like I I just
right because you. Know that the doing is a
standard that you're holding, yes, as opposed to somebody that
(19:35):
you have to beat up or a marathon that you.
Have to yes, yes, yes. It was like I could do that with
this energy, but I just honestly, I sat there with it
and I listened to it for like 6 or 7 hours.
It was on loud and I just listened and I listened and I
listened and I it's, it's reallywhat you're saying.
It's this very resolute no more.I will never, ever, ever again
(19:57):
do any of those things to myself.
I won't make those choices again, and I won't allow someone
else who's making these choices for themselves to come into my
space. Right.
And, and, and that can happen ona micro level too.
I think this is a pretty macro experience.
But on a micro level, like for myself, even when I'm just
having day-to-day conversations with Matt and I'll say, you
know, he'll ask me to do something.
(20:18):
Maybe he did do the dishes. I don't know, something fucking
basic and I will say yes and I will instantly, instantly be
fucking pissed. I'll be angry.
Like I will feel anger in my body and I will immediately know
because anger is a sign of like,OK, there is a boundary that
(20:39):
you're not withholding here. You just agree, bypass yourself
in some way. And in the past, I would blame
Matt. I would get mad at him, be like,
why would you ask me to do dishes?
You know, I have so much to do. But it's like, that's not his
responsibility. Yeah, Why did you say yes to the
dishes, exactly? Because you know you have this
much to do. Exactly.
I know my schedule, I know what's on my plate.
(21:01):
I know that I could say no and he'd probably be fine with it.
You know what I mean? So that is, I think that's just
like a very, very micro straightforward example of what
anger is doing, what anger is here for, what anger is trying
to tell you is check yourself because you're probably saying
something's OK that isn't and what are you gonna do about
(21:23):
that? Yeah, and I'm just gonna throw
this out there and I'm going to look directly into the camera
for this. If you are a people pleaser, you
are fucking angry. You are so unendingly,
egregiously fucking angry. And if you're listening or
watching this and going like, no, I'm not.
(21:44):
I've never been angry in my life.
I am always calm and peaceful and loving.
You're lying to yourself. That's.
True, you cannot get away with violating your own boundaries.
You cannot get away with self betrayal.
It just doesn't fucking work. You could be disconnected from
your. Anger.
You can be disconnected. You can be manifesting it in
physical ailments, mental disorders, autoimmune diseases,
(22:06):
tumors, fatigue. What are the Woody Harrelson or
something? Says like, I don't get angry, I
just grow a tumor. Yeah, like, there you go.
Like, there's so many other waysthat you can tamp down and
digest your anger. But if you are someone who is
constantly showing up for other people at the expense of
yourself, there is anger in there, and it's probably worth
doing some excavation, some connection, some practice of
(22:28):
some sort. Yeah.
And I would say just for my own experience and my own journey of
navigating anger and what it means and what it is like for I
found it so useful to 1st like Iwould journal like all of the
reasons I was angry at this person, all the ways they
wronged me, all of the petty shit, all of the.
(22:49):
And she did this and she did that.
And how could they possibly think it was OK to do that?
You know, just all the shit. And then once that's out, that's
when you can access the like, OK, where did I let this happen?
And what could I have done different to avoid letting this
happen to myself? Because ultimately, my
responsibility is to protect myself from this kind of
(23:11):
bullshit. Yeah, I think that's a really
great practice to. I think, I think the venting
piece is actually really crucialand really important and I.
Live and I vent to each other all the.
Time yeah and and and literally I'll make sure I say like, hey,
I am not going to be my highest self.
Please do not fucking correct me.
I will do that work after. I just need to be human as fuck
right now and just say what my human experience is.
So this week, yesterday, yeah, because I just I was like, if
(23:33):
that's the other thing is like Ican do all the
intellectualization up here. I can get into the higher
perspective in my mind, but I'm not going anywhere if my body's
not coming with me. That's just the way it fucking
works. Basically what I'm getting at is
I think, well, OK, I'm just going to speak for myself.
I used to really fucking struggle to vent because
especially with my people, please, air conditioning, but
(23:54):
also just being aware that I want to be a person who's kind
and compassionate and understanding and empathetic.
And again, it's like bypassing myself to not actually drop into
the experience, feel the experience, and then express the
experience however the experience wants to be
expressed. And especially at the beginning
of navigating an emotion, any fucking emotion, it doesn't
(24:16):
always come out very cute or pretty or.
Elegant. Yeah, like it's like not even
coherent half the time. Like sometimes it's just like
he's just fucking dog like. Exactly.
Like that? Like Homer?
Simpson yes, yes. But the the yeah, the venting
piece is like deeply, deeply important.
I think writing things down is really beautiful, especially if
(24:38):
your brain is like fucking racing.
The writing down can really likedrop you in, slow you down.
It can help you access your subconscious as well.
So I love that advice. I think that's great.
All right, well, we're getting, we're getting to the end of the
time here for this particular day.
Yeah, we're just doing a quick one.
We just wanted to talk about this because it's been really
relevant in my sphere and Mellie's been resonating with a
(25:00):
lot of what I've been sharing. So just want to talk about anger
because we've talked about a lotof other fucking.
Things the the last thing I would do want to add though,
because I just felt like this was a fucking powerful nugget
that I experienced for the firsttime ever in my life.
Yesterday when Liv was telling me about her anger and what she
(25:21):
was experiencing, I was having my own experience.
I was like very, I was having just like a moment and I read
her angry text that was not directed at me, but no it.
Was just. It was to the man.
Expressing her anger and I felt so grounded by it.
And what I mean by that is I felt literally calmer and more
(25:44):
clear in myself connecting to her anger because her anger felt
so clear for her. Her anger felt so like this is
the line that was crossed that was not OK to cross and I'm
never letting that should happenagain.
And like just seeing somebody inthat kind of clarity when you're
not feeling clear or grounded inyourself is like, thank you for
(26:06):
that gift. So that's something to note
about anger is that if you are actually connected to like the
meaning of it and the truth of it, it should actually feel
grounding and not like it's spinning you out.
If it's spinning you out, that'sOK too.
That's part of it. But you're not at the like the
juice yet. You're not at the message yet.
(26:27):
If it's spinning you out, you have to go through that process.
That's when you talk to your girlfriend and you're like,
bitch, I just need to fucking vent.
That's when you go to your journal.
That's when you scream into yourpillow.
That's when you fucking rage andhit shit and listen to blink 182
or whatever Metal for me is blink 182.
But then when you're in the phase of anger, that's like, oh
fuck, this is this is what happened.
(26:49):
This is what went wrong. This is where I said OK to
something that was not OK. That fucking shit ain't
happening. No mole.
That shit feels super fucking clear and super fucking clear,
super fucking grounded. So there's different like phases
of anger that like offer different pearls or experiences.
Yeah, I know. I'm gonna, I didn't even think
(27:11):
about this, but I'm just gonna like button this up with a.
It actually felt that way to me when I sent the message I got,
I, I was rageful and I sat in that until I dropped into my
body and I was like, I see this for what the fuck it is.
And I think if you read the words, maybe you pick up on the
energy, maybe you don't. But I said that deadly calm.
It was like, Nope, this is exactly how I see you.
(27:33):
This is exactly how I feel aboutyou.
And this will never ever happen again.
I promise you that goodbye. And it actually felt that way to
me. I mean, I was angry, but I
wasn't like berserker angry. I'm going to tear things apart,
right? Yeah.
It was. It was grounded.
Yeah, for sure. OK.
I feel like that's a good spot to end.
All right, Ben, we love you. We love you too.
(27:54):
Like and subscribe. Rate Share with your friends.
At babes dot Philosophy hey. To babes.
We love you. Oh.
You did the millennial. I didn't do that.
And we're Gen. Z cool now.
Thank you for listening to Babe Philosophy.
If you enjoy the show, please like, rate and subscribe
(28:15):
wherever you listen and follow us on Instagram at Babe dot
Philosophy. Later babes.
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