June 10, 2025 • 55 mins
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📚 Summary
In this conversation, the speakers explore the significance of sisterhood, vulnerability, and authentic expression among women. They discuss the challenges women face in forming connections, the impact of societal narratives on female relationships, and the importance of creating safe spaces for emotional expression. The dialogue emphasizes the healing power of sisterhood, the necessity of boundaries, and the journey towards building trust in female relationships.
🤝Connect with Kayla
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/heartfelthuman
Website: http://www.sacredsistercollective.com
🫀About
Kayla is an Integrative Healing Practitioner and Women’s Guidance Facilitator with a deep reverence for the unique journey we each walk as women. She is the Founder and Facilitator of Sacred Sister Collective, where she finds great purpose in creating spaces for transformational healing by sharing practices in vulnerability, platonic intimacy, and authentic expression. She has a gift for fostering heartfelt intimacy within new connection. With this gift, she creates intentional healing experiences that are sacred, collaborative, interfaith, and inclusive.
🤓 Takeaways
- Sisterhood fosters healing and connection.
- Vulnerability is essential for authentic relationships.
- Women often face societal pressures that hinder connection.
- Sister wounds can create barriers to female friendships.
- Anger can be a valid and important emotion to express.
- Creating safe spaces allows for emotional expression.
- Boundaries are crucial for maintaining healthy relationships.
- Trust in sisterhood can transform how women relate to each other.
- It's important to communicate feelings openly in friendships.
- Finding your 'Meli' can enhance your journey of self-discovery.
⌛ Chapters
00:00 Babe Philosophy Offers
01:22 The Importance of Sisterhood
04:36 Understanding Sister Wounds
07:27 Navigating Vulnerability and Anger
10:09 Healing Through Authentic Connection
12:54 Expressing Anger in Safe Spaces
16:06 Boundaries and Emotional Capacity
28:26 Navigating Personal Boundaries in Group Settings
33:23 The Importance of Sisterhood and Community
39:50 Building Trust and Authenticity in Relationships
47:02 Transformative Power of Sisterhood Circles
54:47 Outro
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What is up babes? We are super excited.
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(00:21):
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(00:43):
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(01:05):
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Woohoo, this is babe philosophy.Podcast where questions matter
(01:29):
more than answers, where liminalspaces are revered, and where
magic is practical. We are your hosts, Mellie Wolf,
and live wickedly. Welcome back to Bay Philosophy
(01:51):
Live always does a really involved song and today I just
don't have the juice. We're here and I'm super, super
excited because we have Kayla Hash on the podcast joining us
and she is so wonderful. I met her because she runs this
(02:11):
beautiful sisterhood collective out here in Boulder, and I
attended a couple of times and just really felt like you have
such an beautiful energy and I feel like there's so much to
learn from you. So I'm super excited to have you
on the podcast today. If you wouldn't mind, Kayla,
could you just introduce yourself and what you're about?
(02:32):
Sure thing. Thank you so much for that sweet
introduction. My name is Kayla Hash, I'm
owning my new last name. This is a transition for me, and
I'm an integrative healing practitioner and the founder and
facilitator of Sacred Sister Collective, where I create
(02:52):
spaces for people, but primarilywomen of all different walks of
life to come together practicingvulnerability, platonic
intimacy, authentic expression. I really feel that when we are
given spaces kind of like this to be exactly who we are and
talk about whatever we may be going through, our capacity for
(03:16):
healing and connection just grows and grows, and I'm really
excited to be a part of the BabePhilosophy Podcast today.
Yay. I really love it because
literally the tone of your voicejust matches your work.
I'm like, that's exactly what she should be doing.
I can hear it in how she speaks,the cadence, everything.
(03:39):
It's really beautiful and lovely.
You're such a lovely, grounded, feminine presence.
Thank you so much, I I try my best.
Yeah, you were absolutely crushing it.
I wish I had the exact same observation.
That little intro. I was like, Oh my God, this
woman is so doing exactly what she's here to do.
(04:01):
I love women, I just love getting to be in this feminine
energy. Feel like I'm, I'm like actually
genuinely so excited right now. I'm, I'm exhausted, but I'm
getting energy because of I'm excited to have Kayla here to
talk about this topic, which today is why is sisterhood
important? And I feel like sisterhood is
something that unfortunately, and probably not in your world,
(04:24):
Kayla, but in in, in the world at large, a lot of women are
just, especially in this country, I would say we're not
connected to even the concept ofsisterhood and why it matters.
And I feel like a lot of women actually feel threatened by the
concept. They feel threatened by other
women. They feel unsafe in the presence
(04:44):
of other women. So I am just really excited to
speak to and maybe dissolve thatnarrative a little bit through
your wisdom, Kayla. And I would love if you could
just give a stab at your impression of why you feel
sisterhood is important and why it was such a calling for you
personally. Thank you for that question.
(05:08):
You know, sisterhood is a huge part of my life and I find it to
be so important. And also, I can totally relate
to the experience of being afraid of women and feeling
really threatened by authentic connection with women and having
my fair share of experiences that really created that sister
(05:30):
wound that so many people know so well.
And I feel like being able to find a sense of safety in
connection with other women and being able to have space to be
really yourself, both the fully expressed, bold, bright version
(05:52):
and also the tender, sometimes confused, insecure version.
It's so important because it's an aspect of our experience that
we all go through, and it's meant to be shared in a way.
It lightens our load and it reminds us that we're not alone
(06:15):
in that because it's such an isolating feeling to go through
our own struggles. And I think when we can find
women that hold space for us to be our self in all ways, there's
like a deeper level of healing that is possible 'cause you were
able to be seen in that and understood in that and comforted
(06:38):
in that and supported in that. Not by people who know the
answer and can take away your struggle, but who can be there
by your side as you figure it out for yourself.
Just fostering A deeper sense ofconfidence and ability to get
through hard things. So it's a really big question,
(07:00):
but just to begin, I feel like it's important because it's
something that we all long for in the like deepest levels of
self as a human. And it is possible.
And if we're able to find that, I think it just supports us in
(07:21):
ways that, you know, you can go so much farther, kind of like
that saying about, you know, if you want to go far, go together.
I think it's something along those lines.
Like, yeah, I think we can find so much more healing and joy and
(07:42):
beauty when we're able to share it with people who really
understand us. I like you're speaking to this
and I'm like, that's exactly howI feel with Mellie.
Like there was only so far it was getting until we were
connected and we have been able to create really beautiful space
because we bump into these things, you know, where one of
us is like, oh, I'm terrified, I'm terrified, I'm terrified.
(08:05):
And being able to just name thatand show up for each other.
And it's been interesting because I've noticed there's a
lot of complimentary things, right?
We'll both get into, oh, this has been bad in the past.
Like I've had an experience before of being rejected or
judged or spoken behind my back.And I'm, I'm, I really attribute
(08:28):
most of the woman I am today to finding sisterhood and even
discovering that that's a freaking thing.
Like, oh, that's part of my lifethat's missing.
And it, you know, it came to me through a woman, you know, who
holds space the way that you do and brings women together.
And I, I really thinking about if I put myself back, you know,
in the before times when I didn't have female friends and I
(08:50):
was living in the narrative of women don't like me, it's safer
to hang out with men. Women are going to judge me,
they're going to compete with me, any of those kinds of
things. I'm really kind of remembering
not even recognizing those as wounds and recognizing that
those wounds were actually internalized as like things that
(09:14):
were wrong with my femininity and things that were wrong with
me as a woman, Right. It's like we actually had a man
on the show who was saying, you know, if you get rejected as a
man, who if you get rejected by one woman, it's not just one
woman, It's all of all of the feminine.
And I'm sitting here and going, oh, that was also my experience
with other women is I'm not justgetting rejected by this one
woman. It's all of the feminine.
(09:36):
So I thought it might be actually kind of worthwhile to
like kind of talk about what those wounds are like.
What do they look like? How do we know if we have them
if you're not one of those women?
I met a lot of, I was at a woman's retreat this weekend and
all of them said they, they werelike, don't get along with
women. Women don't like me.
And they didn't have female friends or they had one female
friend or their sister was theirliteral blood sister was their
(10:00):
only female friend. So I'm imagining you probably
see some patterns here. So it'd be lovely to just kind
of talk of that, about that so we can bring awareness to what
the wounds are. Yeah, thank you so much for
sharing that. And I'm so grateful that you 2
have found each other and the sister that's there, like for so
many people, you know, like you said, they don't have a female
(10:22):
friend, let alone a female friend that they can be totally
themselves with. But I do think so many of these
wounds that are so common reallyare perpetuated by this
narrative that society kind of puts on women from a very early
(10:45):
time, You know, when we're more like girls and we're just
learning about what is the worldand how am I supposed to show up
and how do you be a woman? And I think the energy of
competition is very ingrained ina lot of young girls upbringing.
Like when we begin to draw the attention of boys or men, you
(11:13):
know, you want to be the one who's chosen because if you're
chosen, you're special and you're good.
And that means everything at a certain point.
And I think that energy of competition is something that
can really stay with us if we'renot careful.
I think a lot of women find it hard to be in spaces or large
(11:33):
groups with a lot of women because their natural
inclination is to kind of compare and contrast and see how
do I, how do I add up against these other women?
Like am I doing good or am I, should I be feeling bad about
myself because I'm not as prettyor as smart or as witty or.
(11:55):
And so I think that's something that if we're not careful, can
really make it hard to be in intimate connection with other
women because it's hard to genuinely love someone when we
feel like we have to be better than them.
Or if they're better than us, then it means we're not good
(12:16):
enough. And so that's something that I
noticed to be really common and a big barrier between this type
of authentic connection. And also just a lot of people at
a young age learn that they can't trust others because
usually something happens in maybe middle school or high
(12:38):
school that really affirms like,Oh my gosh, like girls can be
ruthless. Like they will come for you and
they will tell terrible things about you to everyone around.
And I think this intuitive energy that maybe I can be
around other gals, but you definitely can't trust them.
(12:59):
You definitely can't tell them when you're struggling because
that stuff can be used against you.
So I think this fear of allowingpeople to see the more
vulnerable parts, the less pretty and shiny parts, is a
natural feeling that a lot of people have.
And also it keeps us from finding real loving connection
(13:22):
with other women. I feel like that's.
So true. Would you say Mama?
Resonates. Resonate.
Yeah, and I wanted to just, I'm just recalling that it is so
true, you know, that experience of like, and I know that feeling
(13:43):
so well of like, okay, I can't show my true, my true, true to
women because yeah, it'll be used against me.
They'll know my soft spots. They'll know how to take me
down. I'm basically giving them the
cheat codes to destroy me. Like that's kind of the energy
that I had around really being vulnerable in the face of women.
(14:03):
And until, like, you know, not that long ago, that shifted and
something that I feel is so beautiful in the space that you
hold Kayla. I know I've only been to a
couple of women's circles, but Kayla actually opens up the
circle by sharing vulnerably herown truths before anybody else,
(14:25):
which I feel like it's just sucha beautiful way to like, soften
the room. And I can.
And I can only imagine what it would be like if you had it, if
you had somebody else to start 'cause what happens in the
space? And you can feel it when you
share 1st and now you can. And your shares are so
(14:47):
vulnerable. You genuinely say like what's
happening for you and what you're scared of and why you're
afraid or why you're struggling or what's coming up.
And sometimes you leave and cry.And I can feel the room soften
of women that are just like, oh,I can do that.
It's like this permission slip to, you know, divulge all of
(15:10):
themselves. And that's like a really
beautiful experience to have. And I don't think many women.
Have had it. And me and Liv actually were
just talking before getting on this call with you about anger
and rage and, you know, those being particularly unwelcome in
(15:38):
society, especially from from the feminine and, and Liv, when
I were just talking about, you know, maybe having a like a
ceremonial like rage space together.
And Even so, as somebody who feels like pretty open to the
feminine and pretty connected tosisterhood and like very deeply
(16:00):
connected to live in particular,it's still even for me, this
like Liv was like, I have a lot of anger and it's scary and I'm
afraid to let somebody see it. And, you know, I kind of had
this like, well, yeah, and I'm kind of afraid to see it.
You know, it's like, there's this this fear.
And I would love to hear just what if you have thoughts or
(16:24):
experience around anger specifically for the feminine in
the context of being witnessed by the.
Feminine. Yeah, I feel like I myself have
a lot of anger. And I've had to really learn how
to deal with my anger because before I learned how it would
(16:49):
rear its head in in ways that were less acceptable, you know?
And so I now have to be more comfortable with the regular
processing of my anger so that it doesn't build up to this
place where I lose my shit, which is just not something I
(17:14):
want to do. It's not something anybody wants
me to do, right? So, and with the kind of
technique that you're talking about, how I lead by example in
the spaces that I hold. And it's similar to what you had
mentioned before we begin our conversation today, which was
(17:35):
just like, nothing is off limitshere, Like, and I really affirm
that maybe not in every circle, but I do often say like your
rage, like it is welcome here, your your tears are welcome
here. Anything you're feeling like
this is a space we really want you to feel however you're
feeling, knowing that it's safe to do so.
(17:57):
It's always the right idea to doso.
We have to let it move through US.
And by creating that invitation,like, yes, sometimes there are
big expressions of anger. And even still, even though we
invited and even though I'm OK with it and I'm not gonna, you
know, suddenly be like, wow, that was too scary.
(18:17):
Can still catch you off guard sometimes.
And I've seen that where maybe like more in the movement
medicine container, which is like a dance centered healing
experience. It's a journey.
The energy builds. Like sometimes people will just
like let out this like rageful scream at the top of their lungs
and nobody's people are just dancing and all of a sudden
(18:40):
they're like, and then we continue.
But you can tell for a moment for certain people, maybe it's,
it's jarring to see a woman express her anger in such a, in
such a way like not hidden, not in the privacy of her room or in
her car with the windows rolled up or no one can see her.
(19:02):
She's just totally comfortable to let that fly.
And while I do think that it's, it's still jarring and it's
still scary or confronting for some of us, I think it's really
important that we create spaces and opportunities for that to be
(19:23):
normalized. Because even if not every woman
decides to scream ragefully right after that happens, it
still loosens up this idea that you should never do that, right?
It's like, oh shit, that woman that I connected with and felt
(19:43):
like I liked her energy, she expresses anger freely.
And maybe that's something I could do too sometimes.
So I think it it's important andeven if it doesn't happen all in
a day, I think it sets a tone and continues to communicate to
women that it's the right idea to find a way to express your
(20:06):
anger. It's it's good for you, it's
good for your health, it's good for it's good for your overall
energy. Like to lighten your load and
express those things that feel overwhelming at times?
I, I'm thinking about this because my relationship with
anger has been primarily to justrepress it.
(20:27):
And Mellie and I were also talking about this.
We had this experience, you know, being younger women and
matching energy and throwing shade back and one of my like, I
have like, you know, a gift of seeing people's light right off
the RIP, which also means I havea gift of seeing where you're
tender. And so when I was in high school
and very like guarded and self protected and probably early in
(20:48):
college as well, I would do likethe toxic feminine.
Like I'm going to slice you at your core.
If you look at me the wrong way,Like what's that?
There's this like that Rihanna song where they're like, I wish
somebody would, you know, and they're you're like waiting for
somebody so you can just get up.So I, you know, the more I saw
(21:08):
what that was doing, the less I I had permission for that.
And, you know, just growing up in my family, the anger was
really big and loud. So I didn't have space there.
And eventually I just was like, Nope, just not not doing it at
all. It's totally unproductive was
what I told myself is very logical.
It's unproductive. And then I was married and at
(21:29):
the end of our eight years together, when we were, you
know, choosing to separate and deciding that that wasn't
actually working for both of us,I realized I had not once even
said, I feel angry like what youjust did.
I feel angry about that. And I just remember looking at
that and going, that's a problembecause that man has made me so
angry so many times. And that was five years ago that
(21:51):
I separate. It's almost six years ago that
we separated. And I would say within the last
year, maybe a little bit longer,but let's say for sure in the
last year, as I've allowed the anger to rise, what I've really
started to realize is where thatanger, like the root of it,
there's a boundary, There's a very clear hard boundary.
(22:12):
It's, it's just a no for me on all fronts.
Like it just doesn't work. And I was just like, Oh my God,
all this repressed anger is me bypassing my boundaries and me
betraying myself. And I just wanted to name that
because it's been tried and trueevery single time, every single
time it comes up. It's trustable.
Like I can sit in it and and be with it and hold it in some
(22:33):
sense. I had to do medicine ceremonies
to unclog this I was doing. I don't know if you've heard of
this. You sure?
I'm sure you have. But for our listeners, there's a
ceremonial medicine, it is legalcalled Cambo.
And it's it comes from a frog. And it's like, it's a it's a
poison and you throw up like youdrink a ton of you fast, you
drink a ton of water. They put this medicine, it's an
on you. It's the space.
(22:55):
If the space is done well, it's very safe.
It's very ceremonial. It's very, it's good.
These there's peptides in this stuff.
It does good things for your gut.
And it took me sitting in Cambo four or five times and just
vomiting on repeat to get this stuff to come up.
And then that's where I was like, Oh my God, there's it's
the rage scream where you're just like, and as that was
(23:17):
coming out, I was like, Oh my God, this is like literally me.
This is just me. My anger is just me.
This anger has information available to me about what's
true for me and the space that Ineed.
I don't know if you have any reflections on that or if Melly
has anything to add, but I've just, that's been like this
whole new awareness of like, Oh my God, these are my boundaries.
I was so confused about what boundaries were because I
(23:37):
literally wasn't hearing them. I wasn't listening to them.
That's a problem. Problem that I think everyone
can relate to, right? And I think that's such a good
awareness to have because going forward, you know, when you
start to feel angry, you get to look to what boundary is being
crossed here. Am I crossing my own boundaries?
(23:59):
Or did someone come into this space that I've deemed sacred
and fuck with my shit? Like it's natural to feel so
angry in response to somebody crossing a boundary.
And it makes sense that we sometimes get even more angry
when we cross our own and we letourself down in that way.
(24:19):
Or we feel foolish because we trusted someone in that way.
Like, it's so complex, and I'm glad you were able to have that
experience, even though it took a lot of work around it.
Like, that's so important to realize.
I think a lot of people go theirwhole life without having that
realization. They just continue to stuff the
(24:40):
bad feelings down until one day you know it makes you sick.
So as women, and I don't know 'cause I haven't experienced
this in the circles that we did explicitly with you, Kayla, but
how as women can we help supporteach other in this anger?
(25:04):
And, and like especially, you know, in even at myself, a woman
who's like, OK, like I really want to support you.
But like, I also don't know if Ican hold it.
Like I also like how can I support my friends and the
people that I love in their anger when also it can sometimes
feel like too much for me to hold.
(25:24):
That's a tricky question, right?I feel like it's so personal.
And again, it comes down to our boundaries, like what we have
the capacity for on any given day.
But I think it's, it's somethingthat's becoming more common
where instead of just unloading all of your all of your shit
(25:46):
onto somebody, people ask like, do the space to listen to how
I'm feeling right now. And we get to like decide in
that moment, do we have the space?
And sometimes you might think that you do.
And then maybe you get deeper into it and the person is
unloading some things and it feels like too much like, I
(26:10):
think it's just important to, one, be open to holding space
for our friends, real experiences when we can, when we
have the capacity. And two, honor our boundaries
and how we feel and be able to communicate that.
(26:31):
That's sometimes hard. And it feels really bad to be
like, you know, I thought I had the space for this, but I'm
realizing this is feeling like alot for me right now.
And, and yeah, that doesn't feelthe best, but neither does
ignoring your own boundaries andcapacity and just being like,
this is fine. This is fine, this is fine.
(26:52):
And then really you're like, this isn't fine.
I don't want to be doing this, but I feel like I have to.
So it's, it's a tricky, A trickyquestion and a tricky concept.
And sometimes we, we think that we can hold it and afterwards
we're like, that was heavy. And I don't wanna be feeling
(27:12):
this way. But I feel like with myself, I
have a pretty large capacity just because of all the
conditioning of constantly holding space, you know, for the
heaviest, hardest things. But I do understand that when
you are at your Max and you're tapped out, like it's not good
(27:34):
for anyone to ignore that. It's not good for you and it's
not good for our friend who's just wanting a safe space to
share 'cause I think when something is too big for us to
hold in a moment and we aren't really here for it, I think
that's something both people canfeel.
(27:55):
You know, if you're opening up to somebody and then there's
this shift energetically where you're like, I feel like I'm
over sharing or I feel like thisis too much right now.
And, and we don't want anyone tofeel that way either.
So I think trying our best to just be honest in our
communication and knowing that it's OK to change our mind.
(28:16):
It's OK to be like I was OK withthe 1st 45 minutes of this and
now I think I need a little space for myself.
I feel like that's really good permission because there is this
energy and I've experienced it where it's like, OK, if I say
yes, I have to ride it till the end and if I say no then like
(28:37):
they're never going to open up to me.
So it's like, that's a yeah, that's good permission that it,
it can be fluid and it can change at any point.
I'm really curious for somebody like yourself who, yeah, like
you said, does this like this isyour work.
And I can imagine, you know, youhave had to really stretch in,
(28:59):
in your capacity to hold all kinds of things that I probably
can't even imagine. I'm curious how, how do you
navigate that personally? Like how do you extend yourself
because you, you know, you basically just gave us
(29:20):
permission to say, OK, this doesn't feel good anymore.
But if you're holding a circle like, what are you?
How are you navigating that for yourself?
That's a good question. It's funny because I feel like
over the course of my work and career, I feel like I've
contracted in a way. When I first began this, I think
(29:45):
I not that I had so much to prove, or maybe I had so much to
prove to myself. And that if I'm going to invite
everyone here and I say anythinggoes and I say nothing's off
limits, and I say your rage and your sadness, your everything is
welcome here. I really needed to.
Walk that walk. And so there were times where I
(30:10):
definitely went past my capacity.
You know, I don't think everyonearound me knew that, but I knew
that I felt that. And it is extremely draining
when we just continue to give and give and give and hold and
hold and hold. And, and I think as time has
gone on, I had to learn and lifekind of handed me situations
(30:34):
where I have to have boundaries around this.
And it's important to practice empathy and also know that it
doesn't do anyone any favors to walk away with everyone's shit.
Like it's not helping anyone andit's not sustainable.
And so nowadays something like acircle, I feel no matter what
(30:57):
comes up like we're good. This is Max 2 hours of time.
Like when I go on a weekend longretreat and I'm holding space
for a group of people for 72 hours straight and it's just
going deep and all these different avenues.
It can definitely take a lot outof me and especially now being
(31:21):
pregnant, there's like I have a different capacity.
So I really had to learn just asI give everyone else permission,
like to take care of themselves and to sometimes take space and
to excuse themselves. Like, I also have to take that
permission and apply it to myself, knowing that I too, am a
(31:44):
person who's trying to have a beautiful long weekend with all
of these incredible women aroundme.
And the only way for that to be as sustainable is to know that
it's OK to walk away and take space and take a breath.
And I've had to really, really work at giving myself that same
(32:06):
permission because a part of me is coming from a place where I
really believed if I wasn't herein all these conversations,
making sure that each person felt heard and understood and
like they weren't too much, thatsomething might happen.
And then they might feel like they overshared or it's not OK
(32:30):
to be depressed right now or. And I really had to develop a
sense of trust in what I've built and the community that
surrounds it and the type of women that are drawn to it to be
like, it's not all about me. It's not like I'm the secret
ingredient. It's really like what we all
came here to do. And when someone needs to walk
(32:51):
away and take care of themself, there's still like a room full
of people who are here and so willing to connect deeply and
hold space for us. So I feel like I just had to
learn to trust the essence of sisterhood and know that we all
(33:12):
get to carry a little bit and it's not up to any one person to
hold it all for everyone, right?Including myself as the
facilitator. So as I was listening to you, I
kept hearing just the story of women around the world, like
you're speaking about it in thiscontext, but women do what
(33:33):
you're talking about in their families.
They do it at work, they do it in their friend groups, they do
it with their partner where they're giving, giving, giving.
And I need to be here and I haveto be here and I have to take
this on and I need to be saving you in some sense.
And I love that you really are practicing.
What we want all women to practice is something that
Mellie and I preach on here all the time is like my my friend
(33:56):
Amanda likes to say, you can't pour from an empty cup.
She likes that saying. And it's very, very true.
And again, we're coming back to this idea of boundaries, which
we talk about a lot. I think we even have an episode
of like, what the hell are even boundaries?
Or why are boundaries so hard tohold?
So I would be kind of curious just in your experience, because
you've had so much experience with this.
I have often been the woman in in the room at these retreats
(34:19):
and things who's very willing toscream and rage and yell.
I'm the first woman in breathwork to just start making
noise. I'm the first one to get up and
dance when that's what's called for.
I'm the first one if nobody raises their hand to be like,
I'll tell you what's going on inmy life.
I don't know why this is the case.
I've just always had easy accessto just being loud and way too
fucking much. And I'm, it's taken me a long
(34:41):
time and actually, I think Mellie and I have worked this
out. You know, her experience of it
on her end as well, where it's like something I'm doing or
sharing causes a feeling in Mellie and then her feelings
about what I just shared causes a feeling in me.
And then we just go back and forth about how our feelings are
causing problems for the other person's feelings.
And you know, it took, it took it was a little kinks in the
(35:03):
hose. And now you know, it's, it's
very peaceful and I can come to her and share my thing and go.
And whatever feelings you have about this, I'm available for
them. But that took a lot of work.
And it's work that I actually don't know that I knew was
possible to do with another woman.
Like cuz I was still coming to her very like, I'm gonna be too
much. I know I'm gonna be too much.
(35:24):
It's easier in a retreat space to just be like, well, a
facilitator said I could. So I don't, I don't know if you
have any, you know, reflections or things that you practice with
women where they can know that they're allowed to take up the
space. And it's also OK if that causes
an emotional experience in someone else.
Like there's space for both experiences every time all the.
Time. Yeah, I appreciate you sharing
(35:45):
that. And I think it is the nature of
the space that I create where everybody's invited to be
totally honest and the affirmation is that you're never
too much here. You know, there's space for all
of us to be as big as we feel oras small as we feel, right?
(36:06):
Like and that is the priority inthe space that I hold.
Yes, you can have feelings aboutother people's expressions.
Naturally we will. And I think in the spaces that I
hold the emphasis is really we all deserve this space, right?
We all deserve this space. So sometimes someone might be
(36:31):
taking up the spaces they're invited to do, and that might
cause a feeling within you. But at least in the spaces I
hold, there's not a lot of emphasis on.
And now, how do you feel about her taking up this space?
Right? Like I think the energy and the
(36:53):
intention of the circle is to all allow ourselves and each
other to take up that space. And if it brings up something
within you that's natural, that's fine.
But I think sometimes, at least in the spaces that I'm holding,
like a retreat where you don't have a deep relationship with
(37:15):
all these people just yet. Sometimes, you know, it's, it
can be counterproductive for what I'm trying to do for
someone to be like, I'm finally taking up this space and it's
really hard for me, but I'm doing it.
And then to have people be like,well, when you took up that
space, it made me feel this way.So I feel like together we're
(37:38):
all agreeing. We're trying to prioritize each
of us being able to show up in this way that's challenging.
And rather than reading too deeply into how everyone's
experimentation with doing that makes us feel, let's focus on
(37:59):
how do I show up as fully as I want to show up in this space?
That might be in certain momentsbeing like, hey, can I have a
chat with you? When you said that earlier in
the conversation, like, that wasreally hard for me.
You know, we want to prioritize everyone being authentic and
expressing in that way. But also sometimes someone might
(38:23):
show up in a way that makes you have a feeling.
And we don't always process it out loud because we also want to
think about like how it can makeit even harder for someone to
continue to show up in that way when they feel like, I did this
for my first time and it ruffleda lot of feathers.
(38:44):
And it's better not to. So I won't, what I think is so
special about what you 2 have isa necessity for true sisterhood
and true community is that things are naturally going to
come up in our most intimate relationships that feel
challenging or really uncomfortable.
(39:06):
And we have to have the capacityto talk those things through.
Otherwise you don't get to continue to be an intimate
relationship. You know, slowly you distance
yourself or you think, well, maybe we're just not for each
other. But it's an absolute necessity
in sisterhood and true communityis the ability to lean into
(39:31):
those moments that don't feel good and be like, this didn't
feel good for me. But I love you, and I wanna get
to the other side of this. So I'm gonna have the
conversation that feels crunchy and uncomfortable because our
relationship is worth the work, right?
So I'm glad that you 2 have that.
Together, me too and we totally do.
(39:53):
And that's the beautiful thing is that we have gone through
that exact story arc of like that Liv was saying and that you
were saying Kayla earlier where it's like there's this really
what it was and what I think it was and Liv and I haven't talked
about this. So this is real time coming
forward and let's see what you think about it.
(40:14):
Bring it to me. But really what it is is like a
lack of trust in in, in that that lack of trust in the
feminine that like I can't share.
I can't expose my deepest deep. I can't share my rawest raw and
without being unsafe. And then there's this exchange
(40:35):
where it's like, OK, then maybe you take that leap.
We take that leap for the first time.
Maybe I decide, OK, I'm going totell Liv how I'm feeling.
I'm fucking scared because I don't really have the trust
because I have this ingrained like don't tell her it's not
going to be received well. It's going to make her feel a
certain way. You don't want to deal with how
she's feeling or she, you know, whatever.
(40:56):
And then I share the thing and then maybe it'll listen to it
response in her and then what that could that could and like
you're saying, Kayla, that couldstop right there.
That could be like, all right, well, she didn't receive me.
We're not good for each other. Point proven.
I could never trust women. Bye.
But where Liv and I have gone islike, OK, I didn't feel well
(41:21):
received. That sucked.
OK, I didn't feel well received and that also sucked.
OK, we both don't feel well received.
It's like taking that one step deeper and like just being able
to like sit with the discomfort one second longer and be like,
(41:42):
OK, what's actually happening here?
And the only reason I feel like Liv and I have been able to move
through that time and time againto get to the point where now,
now we're like, OK, I'm going tosay something and I might have
such a response in you and I'm still going to say it.
And it's cool. We're cool.
I know we're cool because I trust us.
And like we're riding, we're riding, we're dying.
(42:04):
That only, the only reason we'vebeen able to do that is because
we have this like deep trust. For each other.
And we've been able to like showup over and over and over again.
And like I've been able to see parts of Lib that like straight
up I've just been like, oh God, like I don't know how to handle
(42:26):
this. And she's been able to see the
same parts of me. And I just instead of being
like, Nope, fuck this, this is crazy.
You're crazy. I'm like, OK, like let me just
sit here. Let me just like be with this
and then let me and then what ends up happening for me is I
(42:49):
end up just being able to see all of Liv in Liv's flavor of
like the entire experience that I have.
And I'm like, oh, this isn't she's not different.
She's not crazy. She's not, you know, it's just
her having that, the experience,this experience that I have, but
(43:09):
it's just her flavor and I can make space for that.
And I feel like that's somethingthat I actually didn't act,
didn't know how to do until becoming close to live and at
least not knowing how to do thaton a personal level, right?
Like maybe I could do that with somebody who was like seeking my
(43:29):
guidance or like some that like there was kind of like this
hierarchy of, you know, they're learning from me or something.
But Liv and I are like peers andwe're doing this for each other
constantly. And that's like that sisterhood
thing that's like, we are literally pulling each pulling
(43:52):
each other up this ladder, but we're doing the work.
Like I'm doing my own work. She's doing her homework.
But in holding space for each other in that way, we're just
like climbing this ladder so much faster.
And that's and we keep reflecting this to each other
constantly. We're like, I don't know what
the fuck I did before you bitch.Like this is crazy.
Like I can't I can't even have them being able to do this
(44:14):
without you just holding me in this space.
I didn't have a question. I just wanted to share.
That, well, I, I, I love that you shared that because
something that Millie and I've been talking about a lot and
you're, you're kind of giving mea good idea here, Kayla.
We've been talking a lot about how now that we're in this
(44:35):
place, we were putting a lot of this energy and this expression
into our male partnerships and that was constantly flooding and
overwhelming them. And then we would feel rejected
and abandoned on a freaking loop.
And because we hadn't, you know,completely leaned into and
steered into the skid of the abandonment and rejection wounds
(44:56):
with a feminine entity, we were bringing a lot of that over
there, right? And, you know, to the point of I
just assumed that she wasn't going to be able to hold it
because I had constantly recreated with sisters that they
couldn't hold it because I was living in a constant pattern
with my male patterns replaying that my mother couldn't hold, my
dad couldn't hold it. Like nobody can hold me at all.
I'm so alone. I'm isolated, which you spoke
(45:18):
to, and I'm thinking back to my,my first experience in
sisterhood and I was freaking terrified when I got there.
The woman who like helped the main facilitator, like she
stared directly in my eyeballs. It felt like for two hours.
It was probably 2 minutes, but she just looked right at me and
I was like, oh good Lord, no woman's ever looked me in the
(45:38):
eyes. What's happening right now?
And then she hugged me and held me for four hours.
It was probably 2 minutes, but it was just the longest time
ever. And in that moment, I was like,
what the fuck did I do? I flew all the way across the
world to Bali. And this woman is like in my
energy, like, she's like feelingme.
And it was really uncomfortable.But I'm even thinking about what
(45:59):
you've been describing. I just keep hearing, like,
should we all as women just like, literally relate to each
other in the way that you're talking about running the sister
circle? Like, is this actually like a
template? Because I took so much from that
sisterhood and then I brought itback.
And then I started relating to other women in that way, and I
could see their wounds instead of a personal attack.
(46:21):
And yeah, that just like literally occurred to me.
And I'm like, OK, everybody go to Kayla's thing.
Everybody go find a women's circle.
This is how this is how you learn how to commune and relate
to each other. And then you'll find friends
there. And then you can bring that
outside the circle. And then, you know, it's like
Mellie did her own sisterhood work before she and I were
connected. And then we were able to like,
find the friendship space to like, really build the intimacy.
(46:44):
And then through that intimacy, we, I mean, literally, Melly
tells me anything. And I like, sometimes I have a
feeling, but it's more just like, oh, here's a prickle
that's inviting me to be closer to this woman.
Yay. Yeah, I, I'm curious, Kayla,
like hearing all of that. Is this something that you
(47:06):
witness in your space? Like what do you notice in in
these kinds of relating patternsand women that because I'm sure
you see all kinds of things all the time.
Well, I would say that a lot of what I am guiding women towards
with the work that I'm doing in the spaces that I hold, I really
(47:27):
do think that if we carry these energetic guidelines out into
our day-to-day lives, it completely transforms the way
that we relate to women and our capacity for real authentic
relationships. And I've seen that happen so
many times where, you know, there's like the Ogs of Sacred
(47:48):
Sister collected, like the womenwho were at the first retreat
that was ever held. And those women are just like a
sister to everyone that they come across.
And they don't have to know everything about them.
They just, they have felt what it feels like to have true
(48:10):
loving connection with other women.
And I think when you've had thatexperience again and again and
you begin to understand that, oh, it's out there, you know,
it's not a rarity. It's something that I can call
into my life by being about it. And these women are just such
(48:32):
beacons of love and connection and safety, and it ripples out
into their lives. And I get to see so many people
who enter this space who show uppretty terrified and guarded and
unsure if they really believe inall this stuff.
(48:55):
Slowly but surely, like, become an embodiment of genuine
sisterhood and like, lead with that open heart where you know,
if you would've caught me 10 years ago, that's not who I was
(49:17):
and that's not how others experienced me.
But slowly but surely, by being offered opportunities to connect
in this way with women, and slowly but surely being given
permission to show up as this new version of myself, I have a
(49:38):
worldview that just really believes that this type of
connection is plentiful. It's all around me if I choose
to Createspace for that. And I'm happy to see like time
and time again that oh, it's notjust me like these spaces.
(49:59):
And I'm not just saying, oh, sacred sister collective circles
that come to mind. I mean, safe women's spaces that
are accessible in lots of places, lots of communities.
They really do create like ripples outward that change what
it feels like to be a woman in this day-to-day world.
So I feel like as you mentioned,Liv, stepping into these spaces
(50:25):
and finding these, these women who are really trying their best
to do their work and not projecttheir shit out onto others and
look for the best in the women that are in their life.
Like I feel like this is the path forward in a society where
(50:46):
so many women do feel alone and like they can't trust the women
around them. And, and I totally understand
that experience. And I also just know it is
possible to to change that narrative and feel totally
differently. But that's just me.
I love that. Thank you so much, Kayla.
(51:07):
I feel like that's those just those little like tidbits of
like the reminder that, you know, whatever you're
experiencing around women and whatever mistrust you might have
for women, like the reminder that it can change.
You know, you might feel that now, but it doesn't have to be
that way forever. And the reminder that like to
feel the crunchies, to feel the uncomfies, to feel the like, Oh
(51:31):
my God, I don't know if I could do this.
Like that's the space where you know, you're doing it.
You know what I mean? Just like be, be there and like
magic comes from that space. As I, you know, shared with my
experience with Liv and what we've gone through together.
And then also, I think the the permission of expressing
(51:54):
ourselves, holding our boundaries, being ourselves,
showing up as authentic and giving other women permission to
show up as their authentic selves and not letting that take
from our own authentic experience.
Like there's room for everybody's authentic experience
(52:15):
to coexist all at once. Those are my little like Kayla
Nuggets for today. Those are yummy Kayla Nuggets.
I would order that at a restaurant.
Know that they're beautiful. And I'm just going to, I'm not
going to say too much in detail,but I'll second what Mellie said
just in, in my own experience and my own walk and getting to
(52:36):
be a part of sisterhood circles,holding space in sisterhood
circles. It's really freaking beautiful.
And you only really run the workrisk, you know, walking this
path of finding your Mellie. Go find your Mellie babes.
So much yes, there's a Mellie. There's, there's a Mellie out
there for you, I promise you, Mama.
(52:56):
And it took, it took me some starts and stops.
You know, there were, there weresome friendships that I thought
were going to be the thing and then they weren't.
And it's, it's, you know, it's just like dating.
It's like partnership. It's the same thing.
But she's out there, ladies. I promise you, she's waiting for
you too. And she's striving and doing her
work. And one day you'll meet in the
middle, maybe at a sister circle.
(53:18):
And Kayla I for whoever's listening.
And if you're in the Boulder area, I cannot recommend Kayla
as a sister circle enough. I've only been a handful of
times, but both of the times that both handful twice.
But both of the times that I went, I had so much resistance
to going and I left feeling, oh,like I even I would, I would
(53:40):
message Liv afterwards and live a few times.
Every time I'd be like, Liv, I don't want to go to this thing.
And she'd be like, Mama, you gotto go.
And I was like, fuck, go. And then I leave and I'd be like
live. I'm so happy I went.
It was so beautiful, such a beautiful space.
I feel so seen. I feel so safe.
So whoever is in the area, Kaylaholds beautiful, beautiful,
beautiful space. Where can people find you,
(54:02):
Kayla? Thank you so much for saying
that Sacred Sister collective.com is the website
lots of good info on there. Also on Instagram at Sacred
Sister collective. No periods or underscores and my
personal is at heartfelt human and I would love if you felt
(54:25):
called to reach out. Please shoot me a message, I
would love to connect with you. Amazing.
Thank you. Well, like follow, subscribe,
comment. If you have questions ask us.
We love you and we will see you next time.
Later, babes. Later babes.
(54:46):
Hello. Thank you for listening to Babe
Philosophy. If you enjoyed the show, please
like, rate and subscribe wherever you listen and follow
us on Instagram at Babe dot Philosophy.
Later babes.
What is up babes? We are super excited.
We have something super special for you that we've been working
on for a long ass time and it iscalled a Grimoire, basically a
witchy ebook. Yeah, pretty much.
It comes from a long standing tradition of people writing
things down and passing them on.And the idea is that we have
(00:21):
reflection, stories, our own experience, and some rituals in
there for you to really get connected to your deepest inner
truths and figure out who you are from your own inner
philosophy. Fuck yeah.
Per the Babe Philosophy brand, we are calling your inner
philosopher out. Where can they find it, Mama?
So. If you go to babephilosophy.com,
right there on the top there is a little thing for you to put
(00:43):
your name and your e-mail in. You do that, you confirm your
subscription, and then boom, there she is in your inbox.
For free. Go get it, babes.
We just had Doctor Adam Hodgkisson our podcast and learned how
freaking important it is to get your lab things done so you can
understand your biomarkers. I check my biomarkers all the
(01:05):
time. Liv is newly inspired to check
her biomarkers. And we want women to be getting
their biomarkers tested so that they can live a better and
healthier freaking life. To order your labs today, go to
algorx.com and use code BABE BABE for 10% off at checkout.
Woohoo, this is babe philosophy.Podcast where questions matter
(01:29):
more than answers, where liminalspaces are revered, and where
magic is practical. We are your hosts, Mellie Wolf,
and live wickedly. Welcome back to Bay Philosophy
(01:51):
Live always does a really involved song and today I just
don't have the juice. We're here and I'm super, super
excited because we have Kayla Hash on the podcast joining us
and she is so wonderful. I met her because she runs this
(02:11):
beautiful sisterhood collective out here in Boulder, and I
attended a couple of times and just really felt like you have
such an beautiful energy and I feel like there's so much to
learn from you. So I'm super excited to have you
on the podcast today. If you wouldn't mind, Kayla,
could you just introduce yourself and what you're about?
(02:32):
Sure thing. Thank you so much for that sweet
introduction. My name is Kayla Hash, I'm
owning my new last name. This is a transition for me, and
I'm an integrative healing practitioner and the founder and
facilitator of Sacred Sister Collective, where I create
(02:52):
spaces for people, but primarilywomen of all different walks of
life to come together practicingvulnerability, platonic
intimacy, authentic expression. I really feel that when we are
given spaces kind of like this to be exactly who we are and
talk about whatever we may be going through, our capacity for
(03:16):
healing and connection just grows and grows, and I'm really
excited to be a part of the BabePhilosophy Podcast today.
Yay. I really love it because
literally the tone of your voicejust matches your work.
I'm like, that's exactly what she should be doing.
I can hear it in how she speaks,the cadence, everything.
(03:39):
It's really beautiful and lovely.
You're such a lovely, grounded, feminine presence.
Thank you so much, I I try my best.
Yeah, you were absolutely crushing it.
I wish I had the exact same observation.
That little intro. I was like, Oh my God, this
woman is so doing exactly what she's here to do.
(04:01):
I love women, I just love getting to be in this feminine
energy. Feel like I'm, I'm like actually
genuinely so excited right now. I'm, I'm exhausted, but I'm
getting energy because of I'm excited to have Kayla here to
talk about this topic, which today is why is sisterhood
important? And I feel like sisterhood is
something that unfortunately, and probably not in your world,
(04:24):
Kayla, but in in, in the world at large, a lot of women are
just, especially in this country, I would say we're not
connected to even the concept ofsisterhood and why it matters.
And I feel like a lot of women actually feel threatened by the
concept. They feel threatened by other
women. They feel unsafe in the presence
(04:44):
of other women. So I am just really excited to
speak to and maybe dissolve thatnarrative a little bit through
your wisdom, Kayla. And I would love if you could
just give a stab at your impression of why you feel
sisterhood is important and why it was such a calling for you
personally. Thank you for that question.
(05:08):
You know, sisterhood is a huge part of my life and I find it to
be so important. And also, I can totally relate
to the experience of being afraid of women and feeling
really threatened by authentic connection with women and having
my fair share of experiences that really created that sister
(05:30):
wound that so many people know so well.
And I feel like being able to find a sense of safety in
connection with other women and being able to have space to be
really yourself, both the fully expressed, bold, bright version
(05:52):
and also the tender, sometimes confused, insecure version.
It's so important because it's an aspect of our experience that
we all go through, and it's meant to be shared in a way.
It lightens our load and it reminds us that we're not alone
(06:15):
in that because it's such an isolating feeling to go through
our own struggles. And I think when we can find
women that hold space for us to be our self in all ways, there's
like a deeper level of healing that is possible 'cause you were
able to be seen in that and understood in that and comforted
(06:38):
in that and supported in that. Not by people who know the
answer and can take away your struggle, but who can be there
by your side as you figure it out for yourself.
Just fostering A deeper sense ofconfidence and ability to get
through hard things. So it's a really big question,
(07:00):
but just to begin, I feel like it's important because it's
something that we all long for in the like deepest levels of
self as a human. And it is possible.
And if we're able to find that, I think it just supports us in
(07:21):
ways that, you know, you can go so much farther, kind of like
that saying about, you know, if you want to go far, go together.
I think it's something along those lines.
Like, yeah, I think we can find so much more healing and joy and
(07:42):
beauty when we're able to share it with people who really
understand us. I like you're speaking to this
and I'm like, that's exactly howI feel with Mellie.
Like there was only so far it was getting until we were
connected and we have been able to create really beautiful space
because we bump into these things, you know, where one of
us is like, oh, I'm terrified, I'm terrified, I'm terrified.
(08:05):
And being able to just name thatand show up for each other.
And it's been interesting because I've noticed there's a
lot of complimentary things, right?
We'll both get into, oh, this has been bad in the past.
Like I've had an experience before of being rejected or
judged or spoken behind my back.And I'm, I'm, I really attribute
(08:28):
most of the woman I am today to finding sisterhood and even
discovering that that's a freaking thing.
Like, oh, that's part of my lifethat's missing.
And it, you know, it came to me through a woman, you know, who
holds space the way that you do and brings women together.
And I, I really thinking about if I put myself back, you know,
in the before times when I didn't have female friends and I
(08:50):
was living in the narrative of women don't like me, it's safer
to hang out with men. Women are going to judge me,
they're going to compete with me, any of those kinds of
things. I'm really kind of remembering
not even recognizing those as wounds and recognizing that
those wounds were actually internalized as like things that
(09:14):
were wrong with my femininity and things that were wrong with
me as a woman, Right. It's like we actually had a man
on the show who was saying, you know, if you get rejected as a
man, who if you get rejected by one woman, it's not just one
woman, It's all of all of the feminine.
And I'm sitting here and going, oh, that was also my experience
with other women is I'm not justgetting rejected by this one
woman. It's all of the feminine.
(09:36):
So I thought it might be actually kind of worthwhile to
like kind of talk about what those wounds are like.
What do they look like? How do we know if we have them
if you're not one of those women?
I met a lot of, I was at a woman's retreat this weekend and
all of them said they, they werelike, don't get along with
women. Women don't like me.
And they didn't have female friends or they had one female
friend or their sister was theirliteral blood sister was their
(10:00):
only female friend. So I'm imagining you probably
see some patterns here. So it'd be lovely to just kind
of talk of that, about that so we can bring awareness to what
the wounds are. Yeah, thank you so much for
sharing that. And I'm so grateful that you 2
have found each other and the sister that's there, like for so
many people, you know, like you said, they don't have a female
(10:22):
friend, let alone a female friend that they can be totally
themselves with. But I do think so many of these
wounds that are so common reallyare perpetuated by this
narrative that society kind of puts on women from a very early
(10:45):
time, You know, when we're more like girls and we're just
learning about what is the worldand how am I supposed to show up
and how do you be a woman? And I think the energy of
competition is very ingrained ina lot of young girls upbringing.
Like when we begin to draw the attention of boys or men, you
(11:13):
know, you want to be the one who's chosen because if you're
chosen, you're special and you're good.
And that means everything at a certain point.
And I think that energy of competition is something that
can really stay with us if we'renot careful.
I think a lot of women find it hard to be in spaces or large
(11:33):
groups with a lot of women because their natural
inclination is to kind of compare and contrast and see how
do I, how do I add up against these other women?
Like am I doing good or am I, should I be feeling bad about
myself because I'm not as prettyor as smart or as witty or.
(11:55):
And so I think that's something that if we're not careful, can
really make it hard to be in intimate connection with other
women because it's hard to genuinely love someone when we
feel like we have to be better than them.
Or if they're better than us, then it means we're not good
(12:16):
enough. And so that's something that I
noticed to be really common and a big barrier between this type
of authentic connection. And also just a lot of people at
a young age learn that they can't trust others because
usually something happens in maybe middle school or high
(12:38):
school that really affirms like,Oh my gosh, like girls can be
ruthless. Like they will come for you and
they will tell terrible things about you to everyone around.
And I think this intuitive energy that maybe I can be
around other gals, but you definitely can't trust them.
(12:59):
You definitely can't tell them when you're struggling because
that stuff can be used against you.
So I think this fear of allowingpeople to see the more
vulnerable parts, the less pretty and shiny parts, is a
natural feeling that a lot of people have.
And also it keeps us from finding real loving connection
(13:22):
with other women. I feel like that's.
So true. Would you say Mama?
Resonates. Resonate.
Yeah, and I wanted to just, I'm just recalling that it is so
true, you know, that experience of like, and I know that feeling
(13:43):
so well of like, okay, I can't show my true, my true, true to
women because yeah, it'll be used against me.
They'll know my soft spots. They'll know how to take me
down. I'm basically giving them the
cheat codes to destroy me. Like that's kind of the energy
that I had around really being vulnerable in the face of women.
(14:03):
And until, like, you know, not that long ago, that shifted and
something that I feel is so beautiful in the space that you
hold Kayla. I know I've only been to a
couple of women's circles, but Kayla actually opens up the
circle by sharing vulnerably herown truths before anybody else,
(14:25):
which I feel like it's just sucha beautiful way to like, soften
the room. And I can.
And I can only imagine what it would be like if you had it, if
you had somebody else to start 'cause what happens in the
space? And you can feel it when you
share 1st and now you can. And your shares are so
(14:47):
vulnerable. You genuinely say like what's
happening for you and what you're scared of and why you're
afraid or why you're struggling or what's coming up.
And sometimes you leave and cry.And I can feel the room soften
of women that are just like, oh,I can do that.
It's like this permission slip to, you know, divulge all of
(15:10):
themselves. And that's like a really
beautiful experience to have. And I don't think many women.
Have had it. And me and Liv actually were
just talking before getting on this call with you about anger
and rage and, you know, those being particularly unwelcome in
(15:38):
society, especially from from the feminine and, and Liv, when
I were just talking about, you know, maybe having a like a
ceremonial like rage space together.
And Even so, as somebody who feels like pretty open to the
feminine and pretty connected tosisterhood and like very deeply
(16:00):
connected to live in particular,it's still even for me, this
like Liv was like, I have a lot of anger and it's scary and I'm
afraid to let somebody see it. And, you know, I kind of had
this like, well, yeah, and I'm kind of afraid to see it.
You know, it's like, there's this this fear.
And I would love to hear just what if you have thoughts or
(16:24):
experience around anger specifically for the feminine in
the context of being witnessed by the.
Feminine. Yeah, I feel like I myself have
a lot of anger. And I've had to really learn how
to deal with my anger because before I learned how it would
(16:49):
rear its head in in ways that were less acceptable, you know?
And so I now have to be more comfortable with the regular
processing of my anger so that it doesn't build up to this
place where I lose my shit, which is just not something I
(17:14):
want to do. It's not something anybody wants
me to do, right? So, and with the kind of
technique that you're talking about, how I lead by example in
the spaces that I hold. And it's similar to what you had
mentioned before we begin our conversation today, which was
(17:35):
just like, nothing is off limitshere, Like, and I really affirm
that maybe not in every circle, but I do often say like your
rage, like it is welcome here, your your tears are welcome
here. Anything you're feeling like
this is a space we really want you to feel however you're
feeling, knowing that it's safe to do so.
(17:57):
It's always the right idea to doso.
We have to let it move through US.
And by creating that invitation,like, yes, sometimes there are
big expressions of anger. And even still, even though we
invited and even though I'm OK with it and I'm not gonna, you
know, suddenly be like, wow, that was too scary.
(18:17):
Can still catch you off guard sometimes.
And I've seen that where maybe like more in the movement
medicine container, which is like a dance centered healing
experience. It's a journey.
The energy builds. Like sometimes people will just
like let out this like rageful scream at the top of their lungs
and nobody's people are just dancing and all of a sudden
(18:40):
they're like, and then we continue.
But you can tell for a moment for certain people, maybe it's,
it's jarring to see a woman express her anger in such a, in
such a way like not hidden, not in the privacy of her room or in
her car with the windows rolled up or no one can see her.
(19:02):
She's just totally comfortable to let that fly.
And while I do think that it's, it's still jarring and it's
still scary or confronting for some of us, I think it's really
important that we create spaces and opportunities for that to be
(19:23):
normalized. Because even if not every woman
decides to scream ragefully right after that happens, it
still loosens up this idea that you should never do that, right?
It's like, oh shit, that woman that I connected with and felt
(19:43):
like I liked her energy, she expresses anger freely.
And maybe that's something I could do too sometimes.
So I think it it's important andeven if it doesn't happen all in
a day, I think it sets a tone and continues to communicate to
women that it's the right idea to find a way to express your
(20:06):
anger. It's it's good for you, it's
good for your health, it's good for it's good for your overall
energy. Like to lighten your load and
express those things that feel overwhelming at times?
I, I'm thinking about this because my relationship with
anger has been primarily to justrepress it.
(20:27):
And Mellie and I were also talking about this.
We had this experience, you know, being younger women and
matching energy and throwing shade back and one of my like, I
have like, you know, a gift of seeing people's light right off
the RIP, which also means I havea gift of seeing where you're
tender. And so when I was in high school
and very like guarded and self protected and probably early in
(20:48):
college as well, I would do likethe toxic feminine.
Like I'm going to slice you at your core.
If you look at me the wrong way,Like what's that?
There's this like that Rihanna song where they're like, I wish
somebody would, you know, and they're you're like waiting for
somebody so you can just get up.So I, you know, the more I saw
(21:08):
what that was doing, the less I I had permission for that.
And, you know, just growing up in my family, the anger was
really big and loud. So I didn't have space there.
And eventually I just was like, Nope, just not not doing it at
all. It's totally unproductive was
what I told myself is very logical.
It's unproductive. And then I was married and at
(21:29):
the end of our eight years together, when we were, you
know, choosing to separate and deciding that that wasn't
actually working for both of us,I realized I had not once even
said, I feel angry like what youjust did.
I feel angry about that. And I just remember looking at
that and going, that's a problembecause that man has made me so
angry so many times. And that was five years ago that
(21:51):
I separate. It's almost six years ago that
we separated. And I would say within the last
year, maybe a little bit longer,but let's say for sure in the
last year, as I've allowed the anger to rise, what I've really
started to realize is where thatanger, like the root of it,
there's a boundary, There's a very clear hard boundary.
(22:12):
It's, it's just a no for me on all fronts.
Like it just doesn't work. And I was just like, Oh my God,
all this repressed anger is me bypassing my boundaries and me
betraying myself. And I just wanted to name that
because it's been tried and trueevery single time, every single
time it comes up. It's trustable.
Like I can sit in it and and be with it and hold it in some
(22:33):
sense. I had to do medicine ceremonies
to unclog this I was doing. I don't know if you've heard of
this. You sure?
I'm sure you have. But for our listeners, there's a
ceremonial medicine, it is legalcalled Cambo.
And it's it comes from a frog. And it's like, it's a it's a
poison and you throw up like youdrink a ton of you fast, you
drink a ton of water. They put this medicine, it's an
on you. It's the space.
(22:55):
If the space is done well, it's very safe.
It's very ceremonial. It's very, it's good.
These there's peptides in this stuff.
It does good things for your gut.
And it took me sitting in Cambo four or five times and just
vomiting on repeat to get this stuff to come up.
And then that's where I was like, Oh my God, there's it's
the rage scream where you're just like, and as that was
(23:17):
coming out, I was like, Oh my God, this is like literally me.
This is just me. My anger is just me.
This anger has information available to me about what's
true for me and the space that Ineed.
I don't know if you have any reflections on that or if Melly
has anything to add, but I've just, that's been like this
whole new awareness of like, Oh my God, these are my boundaries.
I was so confused about what boundaries were because I
(23:37):
literally wasn't hearing them. I wasn't listening to them.
That's a problem. Problem that I think everyone
can relate to, right? And I think that's such a good
awareness to have because going forward, you know, when you
start to feel angry, you get to look to what boundary is being
crossed here. Am I crossing my own boundaries?
(23:59):
Or did someone come into this space that I've deemed sacred
and fuck with my shit? Like it's natural to feel so
angry in response to somebody crossing a boundary.
And it makes sense that we sometimes get even more angry
when we cross our own and we letourself down in that way.
(24:19):
Or we feel foolish because we trusted someone in that way.
Like, it's so complex, and I'm glad you were able to have that
experience, even though it took a lot of work around it.
Like, that's so important to realize.
I think a lot of people go theirwhole life without having that
realization. They just continue to stuff the
(24:40):
bad feelings down until one day you know it makes you sick.
So as women, and I don't know 'cause I haven't experienced
this in the circles that we did explicitly with you, Kayla, but
how as women can we help supporteach other in this anger?
(25:04):
And, and like especially, you know, in even at myself, a woman
who's like, OK, like I really want to support you.
But like, I also don't know if Ican hold it.
Like I also like how can I support my friends and the
people that I love in their anger when also it can sometimes
feel like too much for me to hold.
(25:24):
That's a tricky question, right?I feel like it's so personal.
And again, it comes down to our boundaries, like what we have
the capacity for on any given day.
But I think it's, it's somethingthat's becoming more common
where instead of just unloading all of your all of your shit
(25:46):
onto somebody, people ask like, do the space to listen to how
I'm feeling right now. And we get to like decide in
that moment, do we have the space?
And sometimes you might think that you do.
And then maybe you get deeper into it and the person is
unloading some things and it feels like too much like, I
(26:10):
think it's just important to, one, be open to holding space
for our friends, real experiences when we can, when we
have the capacity. And two, honor our boundaries
and how we feel and be able to communicate that.
(26:31):
That's sometimes hard. And it feels really bad to be
like, you know, I thought I had the space for this, but I'm
realizing this is feeling like alot for me right now.
And, and yeah, that doesn't feelthe best, but neither does
ignoring your own boundaries andcapacity and just being like,
this is fine. This is fine, this is fine.
(26:52):
And then really you're like, this isn't fine.
I don't want to be doing this, but I feel like I have to.
So it's, it's a tricky, A trickyquestion and a tricky concept.
And sometimes we, we think that we can hold it and afterwards
we're like, that was heavy. And I don't wanna be feeling
(27:12):
this way. But I feel like with myself, I
have a pretty large capacity just because of all the
conditioning of constantly holding space, you know, for the
heaviest, hardest things. But I do understand that when
you are at your Max and you're tapped out, like it's not good
(27:34):
for anyone to ignore that. It's not good for you and it's
not good for our friend who's just wanting a safe space to
share 'cause I think when something is too big for us to
hold in a moment and we aren't really here for it, I think
that's something both people canfeel.
(27:55):
You know, if you're opening up to somebody and then there's
this shift energetically where you're like, I feel like I'm
over sharing or I feel like thisis too much right now.
And, and we don't want anyone tofeel that way either.
So I think trying our best to just be honest in our
communication and knowing that it's OK to change our mind.
(28:16):
It's OK to be like I was OK withthe 1st 45 minutes of this and
now I think I need a little space for myself.
I feel like that's really good permission because there is this
energy and I've experienced it where it's like, OK, if I say
yes, I have to ride it till the end and if I say no then like
(28:37):
they're never going to open up to me.
So it's like, that's a yeah, that's good permission that it,
it can be fluid and it can change at any point.
I'm really curious for somebody like yourself who, yeah, like
you said, does this like this isyour work.
And I can imagine, you know, youhave had to really stretch in,
(28:59):
in your capacity to hold all kinds of things that I probably
can't even imagine. I'm curious how, how do you
navigate that personally? Like how do you extend yourself
because you, you know, you basically just gave us
(29:20):
permission to say, OK, this doesn't feel good anymore.
But if you're holding a circle like, what are you?
How are you navigating that for yourself?
That's a good question. It's funny because I feel like
over the course of my work and career, I feel like I've
contracted in a way. When I first began this, I think
(29:45):
I not that I had so much to prove, or maybe I had so much to
prove to myself. And that if I'm going to invite
everyone here and I say anythinggoes and I say nothing's off
limits, and I say your rage and your sadness, your everything is
welcome here. I really needed to.
Walk that walk. And so there were times where I
(30:10):
definitely went past my capacity.
You know, I don't think everyonearound me knew that, but I knew
that I felt that. And it is extremely draining
when we just continue to give and give and give and hold and
hold and hold. And, and I think as time has
gone on, I had to learn and lifekind of handed me situations
(30:34):
where I have to have boundaries around this.
And it's important to practice empathy and also know that it
doesn't do anyone any favors to walk away with everyone's shit.
Like it's not helping anyone andit's not sustainable.
And so nowadays something like acircle, I feel no matter what
(30:57):
comes up like we're good. This is Max 2 hours of time.
Like when I go on a weekend longretreat and I'm holding space
for a group of people for 72 hours straight and it's just
going deep and all these different avenues.
It can definitely take a lot outof me and especially now being
(31:21):
pregnant, there's like I have a different capacity.
So I really had to learn just asI give everyone else permission,
like to take care of themselves and to sometimes take space and
to excuse themselves. Like, I also have to take that
permission and apply it to myself, knowing that I too, am a
(31:44):
person who's trying to have a beautiful long weekend with all
of these incredible women aroundme.
And the only way for that to be as sustainable is to know that
it's OK to walk away and take space and take a breath.
And I've had to really, really work at giving myself that same
(32:06):
permission because a part of me is coming from a place where I
really believed if I wasn't herein all these conversations,
making sure that each person felt heard and understood and
like they weren't too much, thatsomething might happen.
And then they might feel like they overshared or it's not OK
(32:30):
to be depressed right now or. And I really had to develop a
sense of trust in what I've built and the community that
surrounds it and the type of women that are drawn to it to be
like, it's not all about me. It's not like I'm the secret
ingredient. It's really like what we all
came here to do. And when someone needs to walk
(32:51):
away and take care of themself, there's still like a room full
of people who are here and so willing to connect deeply and
hold space for us. So I feel like I just had to
learn to trust the essence of sisterhood and know that we all
(33:12):
get to carry a little bit and it's not up to any one person to
hold it all for everyone, right?Including myself as the
facilitator. So as I was listening to you, I
kept hearing just the story of women around the world, like
you're speaking about it in thiscontext, but women do what
(33:33):
you're talking about in their families.
They do it at work, they do it in their friend groups, they do
it with their partner where they're giving, giving, giving.
And I need to be here and I haveto be here and I have to take
this on and I need to be saving you in some sense.
And I love that you really are practicing.
What we want all women to practice is something that
Mellie and I preach on here all the time is like my my friend
(33:56):
Amanda likes to say, you can't pour from an empty cup.
She likes that saying. And it's very, very true.
And again, we're coming back to this idea of boundaries, which
we talk about a lot. I think we even have an episode
of like, what the hell are even boundaries?
Or why are boundaries so hard tohold?
So I would be kind of curious just in your experience, because
you've had so much experience with this.
I have often been the woman in in the room at these retreats
(34:19):
and things who's very willing toscream and rage and yell.
I'm the first woman in breathwork to just start making
noise. I'm the first one to get up and
dance when that's what's called for.
I'm the first one if nobody raises their hand to be like,
I'll tell you what's going on inmy life.
I don't know why this is the case.
I've just always had easy accessto just being loud and way too
fucking much. And I'm, it's taken me a long
(34:41):
time and actually, I think Mellie and I have worked this
out. You know, her experience of it
on her end as well, where it's like something I'm doing or
sharing causes a feeling in Mellie and then her feelings
about what I just shared causes a feeling in me.
And then we just go back and forth about how our feelings are
causing problems for the other person's feelings.
And you know, it took, it took it was a little kinks in the
(35:03):
hose. And now you know, it's, it's
very peaceful and I can come to her and share my thing and go.
And whatever feelings you have about this, I'm available for
them. But that took a lot of work.
And it's work that I actually don't know that I knew was
possible to do with another woman.
Like cuz I was still coming to her very like, I'm gonna be too
much. I know I'm gonna be too much.
(35:24):
It's easier in a retreat space to just be like, well, a
facilitator said I could. So I don't, I don't know if you
have any, you know, reflections or things that you practice with
women where they can know that they're allowed to take up the
space. And it's also OK if that causes
an emotional experience in someone else.
Like there's space for both experiences every time all the.
Time. Yeah, I appreciate you sharing
(35:45):
that. And I think it is the nature of
the space that I create where everybody's invited to be
totally honest and the affirmation is that you're never
too much here. You know, there's space for all
of us to be as big as we feel oras small as we feel, right?
(36:06):
Like and that is the priority inthe space that I hold.
Yes, you can have feelings aboutother people's expressions.
Naturally we will. And I think in the spaces that I
hold the emphasis is really we all deserve this space, right?
We all deserve this space. So sometimes someone might be
(36:31):
taking up the spaces they're invited to do, and that might
cause a feeling within you. But at least in the spaces I
hold, there's not a lot of emphasis on.
And now, how do you feel about her taking up this space?
Right? Like I think the energy and the
(36:53):
intention of the circle is to all allow ourselves and each
other to take up that space. And if it brings up something
within you that's natural, that's fine.
But I think sometimes, at least in the spaces that I'm holding,
like a retreat where you don't have a deep relationship with
(37:15):
all these people just yet. Sometimes, you know, it's, it
can be counterproductive for what I'm trying to do for
someone to be like, I'm finally taking up this space and it's
really hard for me, but I'm doing it.
And then to have people be like,well, when you took up that
space, it made me feel this way.So I feel like together we're
(37:38):
all agreeing. We're trying to prioritize each
of us being able to show up in this way that's challenging.
And rather than reading too deeply into how everyone's
experimentation with doing that makes us feel, let's focus on
(37:59):
how do I show up as fully as I want to show up in this space?
That might be in certain momentsbeing like, hey, can I have a
chat with you? When you said that earlier in
the conversation, like, that wasreally hard for me.
You know, we want to prioritize everyone being authentic and
expressing in that way. But also sometimes someone might
(38:23):
show up in a way that makes you have a feeling.
And we don't always process it out loud because we also want to
think about like how it can makeit even harder for someone to
continue to show up in that way when they feel like, I did this
for my first time and it ruffleda lot of feathers.
(38:44):
And it's better not to. So I won't, what I think is so
special about what you 2 have isa necessity for true sisterhood
and true community is that things are naturally going to
come up in our most intimate relationships that feel
challenging or really uncomfortable.
(39:06):
And we have to have the capacityto talk those things through.
Otherwise you don't get to continue to be an intimate
relationship. You know, slowly you distance
yourself or you think, well, maybe we're just not for each
other. But it's an absolute necessity
in sisterhood and true communityis the ability to lean into
(39:31):
those moments that don't feel good and be like, this didn't
feel good for me. But I love you, and I wanna get
to the other side of this. So I'm gonna have the
conversation that feels crunchy and uncomfortable because our
relationship is worth the work, right?
So I'm glad that you 2 have that.
Together, me too and we totally do.
(39:53):
And that's the beautiful thing is that we have gone through
that exact story arc of like that Liv was saying and that you
were saying Kayla earlier where it's like there's this really
what it was and what I think it was and Liv and I haven't talked
about this. So this is real time coming
forward and let's see what you think about it.
(40:14):
Bring it to me. But really what it is is like a
lack of trust in in, in that that lack of trust in the
feminine that like I can't share.
I can't expose my deepest deep. I can't share my rawest raw and
without being unsafe. And then there's this exchange
(40:35):
where it's like, OK, then maybe you take that leap.
We take that leap for the first time.
Maybe I decide, OK, I'm going totell Liv how I'm feeling.
I'm fucking scared because I don't really have the trust
because I have this ingrained like don't tell her it's not
going to be received well. It's going to make her feel a
certain way. You don't want to deal with how
she's feeling or she, you know, whatever.
(40:56):
And then I share the thing and then maybe it'll listen to it
response in her and then what that could that could and like
you're saying, Kayla, that couldstop right there.
That could be like, all right, well, she didn't receive me.
We're not good for each other. Point proven.
I could never trust women. Bye.
But where Liv and I have gone islike, OK, I didn't feel well
(41:21):
received. That sucked.
OK, I didn't feel well received and that also sucked.
OK, we both don't feel well received.
It's like taking that one step deeper and like just being able
to like sit with the discomfort one second longer and be like,
(41:42):
OK, what's actually happening here?
And the only reason I feel like Liv and I have been able to move
through that time and time againto get to the point where now,
now we're like, OK, I'm going tosay something and I might have
such a response in you and I'm still going to say it.
And it's cool. We're cool.
I know we're cool because I trust us.
And like we're riding, we're riding, we're dying.
(42:04):
That only, the only reason we'vebeen able to do that is because
we have this like deep trust. For each other.
And we've been able to like showup over and over and over again.
And like I've been able to see parts of Lib that like straight
up I've just been like, oh God, like I don't know how to handle
(42:26):
this. And she's been able to see the
same parts of me. And I just instead of being
like, Nope, fuck this, this is crazy.
You're crazy. I'm like, OK, like let me just
sit here. Let me just like be with this
and then let me and then what ends up happening for me is I
(42:49):
end up just being able to see all of Liv in Liv's flavor of
like the entire experience that I have.
And I'm like, oh, this isn't she's not different.
She's not crazy. She's not, you know, it's just
her having that, the experience,this experience that I have, but
(43:09):
it's just her flavor and I can make space for that.
And I feel like that's somethingthat I actually didn't act,
didn't know how to do until becoming close to live and at
least not knowing how to do thaton a personal level, right?
Like maybe I could do that with somebody who was like seeking my
(43:29):
guidance or like some that like there was kind of like this
hierarchy of, you know, they're learning from me or something.
But Liv and I are like peers andwe're doing this for each other
constantly. And that's like that sisterhood
thing that's like, we are literally pulling each pulling
(43:52):
each other up this ladder, but we're doing the work.
Like I'm doing my own work. She's doing her homework.
But in holding space for each other in that way, we're just
like climbing this ladder so much faster.
And that's and we keep reflecting this to each other
constantly. We're like, I don't know what
the fuck I did before you bitch.Like this is crazy.
Like I can't I can't even have them being able to do this
(44:14):
without you just holding me in this space.
I didn't have a question. I just wanted to share.
That, well, I, I, I love that you shared that because
something that Millie and I've been talking about a lot and
you're, you're kind of giving mea good idea here, Kayla.
We've been talking a lot about how now that we're in this
(44:35):
place, we were putting a lot of this energy and this expression
into our male partnerships and that was constantly flooding and
overwhelming them. And then we would feel rejected
and abandoned on a freaking loop.
And because we hadn't, you know,completely leaned into and
steered into the skid of the abandonment and rejection wounds
(44:56):
with a feminine entity, we were bringing a lot of that over
there, right? And, you know, to the point of I
just assumed that she wasn't going to be able to hold it
because I had constantly recreated with sisters that they
couldn't hold it because I was living in a constant pattern
with my male patterns replaying that my mother couldn't hold, my
dad couldn't hold it. Like nobody can hold me at all.
I'm so alone. I'm isolated, which you spoke
(45:18):
to, and I'm thinking back to my,my first experience in
sisterhood and I was freaking terrified when I got there.
The woman who like helped the main facilitator, like she
stared directly in my eyeballs. It felt like for two hours.
It was probably 2 minutes, but she just looked right at me and
I was like, oh good Lord, no woman's ever looked me in the
(45:38):
eyes. What's happening right now?
And then she hugged me and held me for four hours.
It was probably 2 minutes, but it was just the longest time
ever. And in that moment, I was like,
what the fuck did I do? I flew all the way across the
world to Bali. And this woman is like in my
energy, like, she's like feelingme.
And it was really uncomfortable.But I'm even thinking about what
(45:59):
you've been describing. I just keep hearing, like,
should we all as women just like, literally relate to each
other in the way that you're talking about running the sister
circle? Like, is this actually like a
template? Because I took so much from that
sisterhood and then I brought itback.
And then I started relating to other women in that way, and I
could see their wounds instead of a personal attack.
(46:21):
And yeah, that just like literally occurred to me.
And I'm like, OK, everybody go to Kayla's thing.
Everybody go find a women's circle.
This is how this is how you learn how to commune and relate
to each other. And then you'll find friends
there. And then you can bring that
outside the circle. And then, you know, it's like
Mellie did her own sisterhood work before she and I were
connected. And then we were able to like,
find the friendship space to like, really build the intimacy.
(46:44):
And then through that intimacy, we, I mean, literally, Melly
tells me anything. And I like, sometimes I have a
feeling, but it's more just like, oh, here's a prickle
that's inviting me to be closer to this woman.
Yay. Yeah, I, I'm curious, Kayla,
like hearing all of that. Is this something that you
(47:06):
witness in your space? Like what do you notice in in
these kinds of relating patternsand women that because I'm sure
you see all kinds of things all the time.
Well, I would say that a lot of what I am guiding women towards
with the work that I'm doing in the spaces that I hold, I really
(47:27):
do think that if we carry these energetic guidelines out into
our day-to-day lives, it completely transforms the way
that we relate to women and our capacity for real authentic
relationships. And I've seen that happen so
many times where, you know, there's like the Ogs of Sacred
(47:48):
Sister collected, like the womenwho were at the first retreat
that was ever held. And those women are just like a
sister to everyone that they come across.
And they don't have to know everything about them.
They just, they have felt what it feels like to have true
(48:10):
loving connection with other women.
And I think when you've had thatexperience again and again and
you begin to understand that, oh, it's out there, you know,
it's not a rarity. It's something that I can call
into my life by being about it. And these women are just such
(48:32):
beacons of love and connection and safety, and it ripples out
into their lives. And I get to see so many people
who enter this space who show uppretty terrified and guarded and
unsure if they really believe inall this stuff.
(48:55):
Slowly but surely, like, become an embodiment of genuine
sisterhood and like, lead with that open heart where you know,
if you would've caught me 10 years ago, that's not who I was
(49:17):
and that's not how others experienced me.
But slowly but surely, by being offered opportunities to connect
in this way with women, and slowly but surely being given
permission to show up as this new version of myself, I have a
(49:38):
worldview that just really believes that this type of
connection is plentiful. It's all around me if I choose
to Createspace for that. And I'm happy to see like time
and time again that oh, it's notjust me like these spaces.
(49:59):
And I'm not just saying, oh, sacred sister collective circles
that come to mind. I mean, safe women's spaces that
are accessible in lots of places, lots of communities.
They really do create like ripples outward that change what
it feels like to be a woman in this day-to-day world.
So I feel like as you mentioned,Liv, stepping into these spaces
(50:25):
and finding these, these women who are really trying their best
to do their work and not projecttheir shit out onto others and
look for the best in the women that are in their life.
Like I feel like this is the path forward in a society where
(50:46):
so many women do feel alone and like they can't trust the women
around them. And, and I totally understand
that experience. And I also just know it is
possible to to change that narrative and feel totally
differently. But that's just me.
I love that. Thank you so much, Kayla.
(51:07):
I feel like that's those just those little like tidbits of
like the reminder that, you know, whatever you're
experiencing around women and whatever mistrust you might have
for women, like the reminder that it can change.
You know, you might feel that now, but it doesn't have to be
that way forever. And the reminder that like to
feel the crunchies, to feel the uncomfies, to feel the like, Oh
(51:31):
my God, I don't know if I could do this.
Like that's the space where you know, you're doing it.
You know what I mean? Just like be, be there and like
magic comes from that space. As I, you know, shared with my
experience with Liv and what we've gone through together.
And then also, I think the the permission of expressing
(51:54):
ourselves, holding our boundaries, being ourselves,
showing up as authentic and giving other women permission to
show up as their authentic selves and not letting that take
from our own authentic experience.
Like there's room for everybody's authentic experience
(52:15):
to coexist all at once. Those are my little like Kayla
Nuggets for today. Those are yummy Kayla Nuggets.
I would order that at a restaurant.
Know that they're beautiful. And I'm just going to, I'm not
going to say too much in detail,but I'll second what Mellie said
just in, in my own experience and my own walk and getting to
(52:36):
be a part of sisterhood circles,holding space in sisterhood
circles. It's really freaking beautiful.
And you only really run the workrisk, you know, walking this
path of finding your Mellie. Go find your Mellie babes.
So much yes, there's a Mellie. There's, there's a Mellie out
there for you, I promise you, Mama.
(52:56):
And it took, it took me some starts and stops.
You know, there were, there weresome friendships that I thought
were going to be the thing and then they weren't.
And it's, it's, you know, it's just like dating.
It's like partnership. It's the same thing.
But she's out there, ladies. I promise you, she's waiting for
you too. And she's striving and doing her
work. And one day you'll meet in the
middle, maybe at a sister circle.
(53:18):
And Kayla I for whoever's listening.
And if you're in the Boulder area, I cannot recommend Kayla
as a sister circle enough. I've only been a handful of
times, but both of the times that both handful twice.
But both of the times that I went, I had so much resistance
to going and I left feeling, oh,like I even I would, I would
(53:40):
message Liv afterwards and live a few times.
Every time I'd be like, Liv, I don't want to go to this thing.
And she'd be like, Mama, you gotto go.
And I was like, fuck, go. And then I leave and I'd be like
live. I'm so happy I went.
It was so beautiful, such a beautiful space.
I feel so seen. I feel so safe.
So whoever is in the area, Kaylaholds beautiful, beautiful,
beautiful space. Where can people find you,
(54:02):
Kayla? Thank you so much for saying
that Sacred Sister collective.com is the website
lots of good info on there. Also on Instagram at Sacred
Sister collective. No periods or underscores and my
personal is at heartfelt human and I would love if you felt
(54:25):
called to reach out. Please shoot me a message, I
would love to connect with you. Amazing.
Thank you. Well, like follow, subscribe,
comment. If you have questions ask us.
We love you and we will see you next time.
Later, babes. Later babes.
(54:46):
Hello. Thank you for listening to Babe
Philosophy. If you enjoyed the show, please
like, rate and subscribe wherever you listen and follow
us on Instagram at Babe dot Philosophy.
Later babes.
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