Why should I pause when I'm triggered? with Justin Lovato

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
OK bitch, I fucking sage the crop out of everything.
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(00:21):
Exactly, I think money lengths clarity more than vision boards.
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We just had a dope ass episode with Elizabeth Ralph.
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(01:48):
Philosophy. There is the integrated ego and
the fragmented or disintegrated ego.
My disintegrated ego is I'm afraid you're going to abandon
me. I'm going to fail.
I can't sleep at night because of all the shit I have to do
tomorrow. It's all of these perceived
fears and tumultuous thoughts that keep me fragmented and

(02:09):
disintegrated in my egoic experience.
To me, what the goal is, rather than to eradicate the ego, it is
to integrate the ego into the human experience so that I can
be melly and love the things that I love and do the things
that I do as the individual self, but not let that separate

(02:29):
me from the world to the point of fear, anxiety, distrust,
hate, whatever the fuck else. This is Babe philosophy.
Podcast where questions matter more than answers, where liminal
spaces are revered, and where magic is practical.
We are your hosts, Mellie Wolf, and live wickedly.

(03:01):
Welcome back to babe philosophy.We are here and I am.
This is a hilarious moment for me actually personally because
we have the Justin Lovato on ourpodcast today.
And Justin is a ex partner of mine, a deep, deep friend, a

(03:27):
soul mate in many, many ways to me and I'm so excited to have
him on the podcast today. Justin, tell us who you are and
what you're about. Hello everybody, Now thank you
first for having me on. It's a, it's a real pleasure and
it's awesome connecting with both of you.
I, I'm, I love our relationship Mellie and I love our

(03:49):
relationship live. It's, it's really cool that we
have history and I'm really grateful for it and excited to
be on here. So thank you.
What I do is I essentially help people awaken from the illusion
of separation and remember theirtrue nature.
I use mindfulness practices likeconscious conversations, breath

(04:11):
work and meditation. Also plant medicine and movement
to help quiet the analytical mind so that they can observe
their thoughts and emotions without judgement and without
evaluation. This allows them to see through
their ego stories, connect with their, I would say their inner
wisdom and you know, leading to to peace essentially.

(04:35):
So, yeah. Beautiful.
I love it. So good.
Yeah, today's topic feels so applicable to just everyday life
in so many ways. And I feel like Justin's like
the perfect person to be talkingabout it.
And the question is, why should I pause when I'm triggered?
And given Justin's work, this isa very relevant topic and

(04:59):
something that I think the majority of us really struggle
with in our lives and our lived experiences and our interactions
and our relationships. So I'd love to just dive into
the question right off the bat, Justin, what is why?
Why is it important to pause? Yeah.

(05:19):
First of all, it's, it's hard todo.
I think it's first pointing out that it's always challenging.
One of the things that essentially I asked myself,
there was 2 questions that I asked myself a long time ago as
I was essentially coming online,operating from a place of love
and understanding. Once I started sitting in that
seat more, I became curious as to the times that I couldn't and

(05:39):
why. And then I became curious to the
times that I became like activated or triggered within my
body. And why wasn't I able to pause
during that activation and observe what was happening
without reacting to it from a place of ego and instead act

(06:00):
from a place of love and understanding, presence,
compassion, grace, and empathy. And so for most, I've learned
that this is difficult because we don't really do mindful
practices. Most of us aren't really
engaging in these mindful practices, whether it be breath
work, meditation, and even simple things like grounding and
sunbathing to even have the ability to pause.

(06:22):
Most of us are kind of reacting through life and learning how to
do that is, is most of the time not even in most people's
awareness. Like if they don't even have the
question of like, oh, can I pause when I become contracted
or triggered? So that's the first question is
or, or just that's the first thing is bringing that into
awareness is can I pause? How do I pause?

(06:43):
And so for me, every time I do get triggered, I don't
necessarily create any guilt or shame that I got triggered.
I become really curious of my behaviors that led up to the
inability to stay open when I became triggered or when
powerful emotions were moving through me.
So. Yeah, that's super good.

(07:03):
I, I'm kind of laughing to myself right now because when
I'm hearing you speak, I'm trying to think in my own lived
experience, like when did I first, you know, start to come
online to the essentially the choice that you have in, in the
space of reacting to a trigger or react or, or your response to

(07:27):
any occurrence in your life. And I actually feel like the
first real genuine understandingthat that I grasped of that was
in my relationship with you. Like, that was the first time I
had the awareness of like, OK, Ican decide how this goes.

(07:54):
Not to say I was good at it at all.
It was. So messy at 1st and it still is
in so many ways and in differentareas.
But you were the first person tokind of teach me that.
And and it was because you did it, you practiced that.
You were the first person that Iobserved to do that.

(08:15):
And so that kind of you like LED, led me by example in a lot
of ways. And I just remember having times
where I just felt so triggered in the face of you.
And I remember thinking, OK, what would like the, the highest

(08:35):
version of me do here? Or what am I going to be proud
of later? Like, like how, what response
here is going to make me proud later instead of ashamed later?
And I think that was something that was super helpful for me to
kind of come online was thinkingabout, cause what happens in
those moments is I feel like theworld becomes so myopic, right?

(08:58):
Everything becomes so zoomed in.It becomes so this is the only
moment that exists. This has to go the way that I
want it to right now or else I'll die.
And being able to just like stepoutside of the moment for a
second and say, what is, what isfuture me gonna be happy about

(09:18):
me doing right now? That was that was for me, like
the thing that started to catalyze this behavioral change.
I'm curious because I know you work with a lot of people on
this kind of stuff. Yeah.
What is your first advice to bringing people's awareness to
changing this pattern, this behavior?
I think it's first also good to keep clear on like, you know,

(09:41):
there's reasons for these triggers and sometimes it can be
just a simple one where we're not managing our energy well,
we're eating poor food, we're onour phone a lot, we're
overworking, we're not getting sun.
You know, that can lead to a social contagion, if you will,
of energy and and then a drop invibration.
And we're operating from this unique space, this energy space

(10:02):
and also collective consciousness.
And so that's one way to get activated, but then there's the
deeper ones that are like, you know, stored stuck energy and
trauma, which which makes it incredibly hard in those moments
because it's so visceral, it's in your body.
So, you know, it's the kind of the same answer for both those
situations. And it's really getting into a

(10:23):
powerful mindful or mindful practices each and every day
and, and understanding the importance of these modalities
so that it gives you the abilityto stay and love to stay
essentially in a higher vibration.
Because that's really what we'retalking about is energy and
vibration and frequencies. And that includes your body and
your mind. And I learned a long time ago

(10:44):
that my thoughts, my words, my beliefs and my behaviors
conscious consumers and directlycontributed to my vibration and
my frequency and my ability to pause, whether it was a visceral
energetic contraction within my body or me just not doing

(11:04):
healthy behaviors. And so the first thing is kind
of getting people to understand energy vibration and frequency
by using affirmations and mantras first thing when they
wake up, speaking from that knowing and then doing a breath
work and, and transmuting and alkalizing any stored stuck
energy, whether it was energy from the weak or stored stuck
energy from childhood to kind ofrelease that energy.

(11:28):
And then also then falling into that state of presence where we
essentially shift into that higher mind.
And that's very new for people. Most people don't have access to
that because the mind's so busy.And so that that stillness in
itself brings a big awareness oflike, who am I in a way?
And it's the first time people can actually observe a thought
without grabbing it and identifying with it and getting

(11:49):
lost within it. So the morning rituals is like
the first thing I set up. That's usually the first call is
morning rituals, breath work, meditation, kind of carving out
some time that will allow them to create some mindfulness and
presence in their everyday life.And then they'd have a a sense
of awareness, the ability to pause as they go through life,
through the day. And then as they keep up with
that practice that that ability just increases.

(12:12):
It expands to where you can handle all chaos and in all
moments. And then when you do contract,
it's not like an outwardly trigger contraction.
It's like it's, it's, it's a minimal one.
It's just like maybe a closing and then a reopening within the
same 2nd. And so in time it gets, it gets
easier. But in the beginning, it's very,
very hard, especially if we still have wounds or programs or

(12:33):
stories that we identify with. I can definitely speak to the
the morning routine being a freaking game changer and being
an assistant with that every morning.
I meditate now. I used to, you know, I went on
and off of it, you know, all of that.
And now I'm pretty steadfast with it for this exact reason.
The difference in my day and my like capacity and ability to

(12:54):
stay conscious and to especiallywhen I'm really overwhelmed and
stressed, then I like double down on it.
And maybe I'm meditating even more often during those times.
So I'm also trying to like put myself back in, you know, when
did I start coming online and go, oh, I think I might be
creating this nonsense in my life and maybe I can do
something about that. Yeah.

(13:15):
And I'm really remembering very early on in this process, one of
my biggest struggles. And I think this, this kind of
goes back to the why one of my biggest struggles was like the
sense of just deep injustice that I was feeling in my whole
experience of myself. In those moments where it's
like, why do I have to be the one to pause?

(13:36):
This person is transgressing. This person did this thing
wrong. Like, why is it me?
Why do I have to be the one to do this?
Why do I have to be the one to break it?
Fuck them. Da, da, da, da, you know,
whatever sense of injustice I was feeling, and especially the
those triggers that were coming from my childhood where there
was a deep seated amount of injustice happening.

(13:56):
And ultimately, you know, painstakingly year after year
after year, it just became me choosing me and me choosing,
well, I just don't want to be this kind of person and I don't
want to be in this situation. So I guess I'm just going to
rise. But that that first initial
thing, I remember that being my biggest barrier to wanting to
choose something different is like standing in the face of

(14:18):
this person who I feel deeply hurt by and feeling this
injustice. And like, why am I always the
one who's taking the higher ground?
So I thought that might be something you could comment on.
Like, why? Why should you pause in the face
of injustice? Yeah, I I totally understand
that it to be understood, to be validated, to be affirmed.
That's actually one of the behaviors that that was harder

(14:40):
for me to dissolve, I would say.And it it caused a lot of
suffering within me. And so I became curious of what
causes suffering. And it's the need or want or
resistance to things. And that's the ego as well.
And so I learned what was resisting, I learned what was
needing to be understood or wanting to be understood or
wanting to be validated. And it wasn't my higher self.

(15:01):
So I was able to decipher that and see which self needed one of
those things and what was causing the suffering.
And that was a challenging ones,even more challenging when it's
with people that you love or your family.
I mean, Ramdas says if you thinkyou're conscious hanging around
your family for the weekend and yeah, which are, they're always,
you know, triggering and misunderstanding and, and more

(15:23):
than anything, we want the people that we love most to
understand where we're operatingfrom and not misunderstand us
and not judge us either and not treat us a certain way.
And that's a hard one. That's usually the hardest one
to, to kind of be able to let that go without the need or
want. And when I was able to do that,
man, it, it relieved so much, almost probably all of the

(15:45):
suffering, honestly, that I would be enduring.
You know, I, I had that with my mom for a long time, my mom
because of her traumatic upbringing, because she was
always in her masculine, becauseshe wasn't safe.
You know, I didn't receive a lotof feminine nurturing, motherly
love and, and I felt misunderstood by my mom in many
ways. And I needed her to, you know,

(16:06):
and I wanted her to be a certainway for me to feel OK.
And when I didn't receive that or when I was misunderstood by
that, I suffered tremendously. And then someone brought it up
to me years ago, and they're like, Hey, Justin, can you love
this person exactly as they are without needing or wanting
anything from them to be OK, to be at peace?

(16:26):
And that was like, the big game changer is like, oh, wow.
Yeah. And then I make nobody
responsible for my peace either.And I don't give my power away.
And that was really big, too. And so I realized that I didn't
need the validation. And it's funny was it was such a
process because I remember like when I was like passionate about
something and where I wanted to be right, which is also the ego.

(16:48):
You know, at first I'd be at a table, say with people and we'd
all have our opinion. And at first I would probably
argue my opinion, you know, to be heard or understood.
And then I got to the point where I could share my opinion,
but I didn't need them to necessarily agree with me.
And then I got to the point where I didn't even have to
share my opinion. I could just listen and it was

(17:11):
OK. I didn't need to speak.
I didn't need to talk about it. I didn't need to be understood
or for them to see me. And that was absolute freedom
and peace for me. So, and that's a long road.
That's a tough one. Again, we'll definitely be
tested with our family and lovedones on that one.
More than anything, we're reallygood about it when it's like a
crazy person on the street, you know, we don't need like, I

(17:31):
don't need to convince the crazyperson.
I can see that they're crazy, but then we, I think we realized
that all beings walking around have moments of craziness where
they're offline, where they're absolutely insane.
And so there's not the time I would say, to try to be
understood anyway. Yeah, I'm, you're making me
think of just the whole concept on like a larger, like more
collective scale in the terms oflike politics and religions and

(17:59):
these types of ways of being that are really polarizing for
Biden at large. And I feel like that feels like
a big root of that drive. And the, that manifestation is
the, the inability for the collective to have an opinion
and not have to push it on everybody else.

(18:21):
Because that seems to be like the theme of politics and
religion. And like, you know, at the core
of it, it's not the actual politics that's the problem.
It's not the actual religion that's the problem.
It's the inability for holding our belief systems within
ourselves strong enough and trueenough that we don't actually

(18:43):
have to project it onto everybody around us.
I love that. I think what you're touching on
too is I think in those moments,specifically the ones that you
used, there's a lot of fear. So that's also a unique space
that people are operating from when it comes to politics and
also their beliefs, you know, and, and so when, when
somebody's beliefs are say, not even challenged, but then when
there's just an opposing idea ora different belief or faith, if

(19:07):
they're completely identified with all of those things and
it's tied to them and they don'thave the like the core value of
reasoning that could be dismantling for so many.
And if there's a fear too, is like, OK, if I believe, then
then who am I? If, if I don't know what I've
been, I'm going to double down now, you know what I mean?
It's, it's one of those things when there's so much fear
involved. And that those two specific

(19:29):
examples, I think it's why it's so challenging. 1 is that many
people end up identifying with most things in their life or all
things in their life. And that can be a, a slippery
slope too, as opposed to just having maybe a viewpoint on
something, but not necessarily identifying with it.
And, and then again, when it's being driven by fear.
And I, you know, like I, I remember even operating that way

(19:52):
within our relationship time sometimes when I had an opposing
view of yours and I wasn't operating from love, it was
coming from a place of fear. And I also didn't have at that
time the core value of reasoningor or wanting to understand why
somebody would actually have a different point of view.
And and then with that, with that different approach, I could

(20:13):
have love and understanding and then and then you could have
love and understanding on why I think that way.
And then we can have, you know, a common ground where we meet in
the middle. And then there's the reasoning
part of it. And then there's the learning of
why maybe we have this fear around this idea or this belief
or this politic. And, and then that's such a

(20:33):
better conversation. But when we're in fear and when
we're identified with certain things, that gets a bit
challenging. Yeah, I that's, that feels so
real and I'd love to just dive into that a little bit more
because I feel like the people who are, who are listening maybe
are thinking, you know, that's not me.

(20:56):
I I, you know, it's really easy to be like, OK, well, the, yeah,
I see other people do that, but that's not me.
And I think the mask that peoplehide behind is the mask of I'm
trying to protect you. I'm trying to do what's right.
I'm trying to save the planet. I'm trying to save the earth.
I'm trying to save my child. I'm trying to right.

(21:17):
It's like this savior kind of mask that people are hiding
behind, when in reality, it's really like this projection of
belief that I think is, like yousaid, Justin, stemming from a
lot of fear. And yeah, I, I just curious if
you have a comment on that because I feel like that's
probably something you see a lottoo in the work that you do.

(21:39):
I think, I think the biggest thing is the vibration of fear
that makes it so challenging forpeople to say to even like look
at what you're expressing. I, I've, I've done it in my
past, even when I was with Steph, I remember when I was
going through the process of, ofwanting to move and wanting to
buy land and wanting to do this and that, it wasn't coming from

(21:59):
a place of love at first, it wascoming from a place of fear.
It's like, oh, I need to buy land because I don't trust the
government. I need to do this because of
this. And this was all LED with fear
and leading with that vibration.Even if I was say correct or on
point with maybe my observation of things, my fear vibration is
so repelling. It's not safe.
It doesn't feel good. And also then I'm not so not

(22:21):
able to be trusted because I'm operating from the space.
I'm leading from the space. And so that was a huge lesson
for me in many ways. And I also learned that through
some experiences with you. And we had opposing views.
I didn't know how to hold it from a place of love.
I was more reactive with fear because I was still operating
from that space. And, and it's wild once you see

(22:43):
it because now it's like my perspective on land.
The reason why I want land isn'tbecause I don't trust the
government. That doesn't come up in my in my
mind anymore. It's because I want to touch the
earth and it's because I want to, you know, raise animals.
It comes from love. Now it's because I want to learn
about this kind of stuff and I want a beautiful home and I want
a a garden and I want these things.

(23:05):
And so that's trusting, that's loving, that's exciting, that's
interesting. And so that's the big thing.
I think where we operate from, especially when we have strong
views, are we operating from fear?
Because then there's a lot of distortion in there too that
can't be essentially trusted. And so when you operate from
love, there's clarity on that, there's trust in that and
there's curiosity that follows with that.

(23:25):
And so that was the big thing isjust shifting where I'm
operating from during those times does.
Oh live, sorry I was. Literally just, yeah, I was just
going to anchor. Yeah, I mean, I have something,
but you can keep going since you're on a roll.
And when I get a, when I get a pocket, I will ask.
But I just wanted to anchor thisbecause something that Mellie
talks about a lot and we've looped around a lot on the show

(23:45):
is like, where are you coming from?
Clean fuel or dirty fuel? And you're saying you are coming
from a fear by vibration. That's dirty fuel.
When you're coming from a love vibration, that's clean fuel,
that's sustainable, that's grounded, that's going to be
consistent. Your intuition's going to speak
through that lens, which we talked about intuition a lot
here. And that's going to be kind of
the thing that cleans up your ego's way of expressing so that

(24:11):
the ego's in alignment with the heart and with your soul.
It's that clean fuel. So just wanted to like every
time we can like loop things back to a concept we keep
talking about. I think it's really good to do
for our listeners. I love that metaphor.
That's a great one. Thanks.
Yeah, I'm really feeling this. This space is such a sticky one

(24:34):
for so many people. And like, it's such a, it's such
a ethereal concept. I think for a lot of people that
are living in this space and just can't even grasp it because
it just feels so beyond their lived experience.
And I'm really zoning in right now on like the worried mother
or the worried father, the worried, you know, politician,
whatever it is the, the person that's concerned for the earth,

(24:58):
for the people, for their children, for their whatever.
And I really resonate with this a lot.
And this is hitting home big time for me because I feel like
I have a lot of pain that's resides in me around my parents
protective mechanisms for me that stemmed from that dirty
fuel of fear. And I would just love it if we

(25:20):
could kind of unpack The Dirty fuel versus clean fuel version
of protection because I think a lot of people understand
protection and to be a fear based mechanism.
And like if you say, you know, when you say like, don't worry
about your child, they're like, what the fuck?

(25:41):
Don't fucking tell me not to worry about my child.
You know what I mean? Like that feels very wrong.
And I would love for those people to just like OfferUp an
alternative of how to actually love and protect their child
without having it be a fear based motive.
Yeah, that's a tough one, especially with a parent, you
know, I mean, and and and with agrain of salt.

(26:03):
Worrying is insane. Yeah.
Worshipping. The problem?
Yeah, I think that what what people where they can maybe
start to actually see change andshift is maybe, and this is a a
big part of what I teach is understanding the laws or
principles that govern the universe.

(26:23):
And so I think when we can zoom out even more and just
understand, say the physics or quantum physics, physics of
things and understanding that our thoughts, I mean, the first
law is I think therefore I am understanding that your thoughts
carry a vibration and they carryspecific frequency based on that

(26:43):
thought. And where it derives from
essentially creates and attractsyour reality, which is the
second law, which is the law of correspondence as within, so
without. And so I think maybe we can
enlighten people with how thingswork energetically, how things
work vibrationally, and then they can take some type of
responsibility for their thoughts.
They're worrisome thoughts when they occur.

(27:05):
And then they can realize how they don't serve and in fact
create a, a reality for them that just makes them sick, that
doesn't actually help and actually almost brings to
fruition in itself. And so I think that could be,
for me, that's always been a wonderful tool for myself and
then also my clients. And so if you have a mind that's

(27:27):
now programmed and conditioned, because that's usually the case,
it's not even like a lot of times they're choosing to worry.
It's more so they get activated or they've been programmed to
worry by their community, their upbringing, what have you.
It seems a very common thing forpeople to just worry.
I mean, it's the definition of anxiety.
And so like when we fall into this worry, it's more so like,

(27:49):
OK, how can I again pause when Iget triggered so I don't grab at
the mental program of worry or dread because that's what it is.
It's a it's a program that's being released and your brain
thinks it's solving a problem, but it's not.
And so as consciousness, as the higher self, when you get
triggered, do you have the awareness to know that your

(28:10):
brain at this time, because it'sbeen conditioned and programmed
to worry when it gets activated,do you have the ability to watch
it go by or do you grab it and get lost in the trance of that
worrisome? And that's, that's more So what
we can probably kind of get intoagain, what will give you the
ability to pause? What will give you the ability
to not grab at the program? And then on top of that,
realizing that program doesn't serve you.

(28:31):
So then how can we reprogram? And that falls into your, your
affirmations in your mantras, You know, like we're not just
speaking mantras and affirmations for the woo woo of
it. We realize that our words are
vibrations. Our thoughts are vibrations and
they carry a specific frequency.So if we know this and and our
intentions also carry a frequency and a vibrations and

(28:52):
that's really powerful. And as The Alchemist of our
experience, we can speak with great conviction every morning.
You know, I am worthy, I am enough.
I am at peace with what is I fully trust and I fully allow.
We program our conscious mind through the repetition and we
influence the subconscious mind which creates your reality and,
and in time that program dissolves and worry no longer

(29:15):
becomes a thing. And on top of that, when you get
into your deep breath and your deep meditations, you do have a
shift in awareness of what all this is.
And that's when faith comes in and belief is no longer a thing.
Faith is a real knowing, which is incredible.
It really dissolves and removes all fear when you actually have

(29:38):
faith, when you actually have full trust or unknowing and or
allowing in this experience. That takes time, obviously, but
when you can see clearly what things are from these
meditative, these deep meditative states.
The sense of awareness of self is also a big contributor to no
longer identifying with these thoughts and and having the

(29:59):
ability to pause when they do come up.
Something I'm thinking about this in particular is you, you
said something that you know resonates with my experience of
worry and then also with my experience of protective energy
from a parent that was actually deeply damaging.
And I've spent years and years and years undoing in the pause
and in the meditation when you start to recognize that the

(30:22):
worrying actually isn't solving the problem, right?
It's just making you miserable. And it's possibly also creating
misery for everybody around you based on the choices that you
make and the behavior and the energetic frequency that you put
out. And also it can kind of help
you, I think personally notice where you're actually in action
to create a solution, right? Because I think it can be, at

(30:44):
least in my experience, it can be confusing.
What's the difference between meidentifying with something and
me having a passion and in a voice about something?
Like, I have a mesh message, I have a conviction about this
thing, but it's getting all swirled up and messed up with my
identity, Which my identity is important because I'm a human
and I do play in the 3D World, even if I am something else,

(31:07):
just pure consciousness. And then we talk about the ego,
right? Which is also like a very
mammalian 3D human experience. It's here to keep us safe, to
help us navigate the world, to stay, you know, alive in the
social tribe. There's like all these like,
there's just so many layers to being human.
There's just so many layers. And I really feel like for me,

(31:30):
the biggest power of the pause was being able to separate all
the layers so I could see what'sgoing on and then kind of
coalesce them back together to move in a direction.
I'm feeling like what a lot of people don't realize, especially
with like this fear based protection energy or this fear
based conviction is they're actually causing a lot more

(31:50):
inertia, like stop energy than they are creating like flow.
And so I don't know if that's something that we could talk
about here, but when I'm saying why should we pause?
Well, one, if you pause, there'sactually space, and that space
becomes important because what you put in that space is going

(32:11):
to determine what dominoes startfalling next.
Yeah. I mean, those are wonderful
points. Like again, where we can count
sometimes get caught up and whenmanaging this is falling into
the need to be understood. So it's like being able to like,
say, speak our peace or our truth, but also not need or want

(32:33):
anything to feel OK. And I think that can really
allow us to like not fall into the suffering essentially.
And that could be really helpful.
And, you know, and, and I would love to touch on like the idea
of the ego and, and fear, you know, I, I've come to this
conclusion and I think more people will start to see it as
well. Like I feel like the ego is a

(32:55):
wonderful tool that we can learnfrom.
During this experience, I learned that there is a
difference, at least for me, there's a difference between
primordial fear and egoic fear. And primordial fear is what
keeps you out of harm's way and gets you out of the way when a
car is coming down and you can jump out of the way or when a
tiger is attacking you or what have you.

(33:17):
But egoic fear is worry. It's actually the worrisome
stuff. It's the, the, the anxiety of
things, the, the, the thinking of the past, the thinking of the
future, where primordial fear just actually protects you when
things are needed and get you out of harm's way, Where egoic
fear was born from fear. It's something that the mind
created because it was unsafe and its environment as a child.

(33:41):
So it's a manifestation of the human mind, which is another
self, which makes it even more complicated.
As you were saying, there's so many layers of selves.
You have the ego self, you have the, the human mind self, you
have the soul self, the oneself.And so I could see the how this
can be sometimes very confusing.And, and So what I've done is,

(34:03):
is been able to see that the, you know, you know, the cartoon
where it's the person and then you get the little devil and you
got the little Angel on the shoulder.
It's a old school cartoon. In most people's experiences or
most soul experience, the soul was identified with the person
and the ego on the shoulder, thelittle devil.
And, and that's mostly their experience.
And this person's been deeply programmed through their

(34:23):
experiences, their fears, their views, what have you.
And this mind created this mind to protect itself.
But really since it's born from fear, it just keeps it small and
separate from the all. And so one of the things that we
would, I try to really do with my individuals is realize that
this self and this self are essentially the self that you're

(34:44):
experiencing, but not the true self.
And how can we step into this self right here, the higher
mind, the sole seat. And then what we do is we end up
guiding this self as opposed to identifying with this self.
And that was a huge shift for myself.
I talked to Justin. When Justin gets triggered, I
can tell him like, hey, let's gobreathe.

(35:05):
I can teach him how to eat healthy.
I can teach him how to manage his ego when it flares up and
when it speaks. And I can teach him how to
become aware of it when it showsitself.
And so Justin doesn't drive the car anymore.
The higher mind does in this process.
And it's teaching and guiding Justin through this space.
And what's cool is since I've elevated Justin and his mind,

(35:29):
the ego is mostly dissolved throughout his experience.
It very rarely comes up because if the ego, I don't need for
protection, my primordial fear will do that.
It'll keep me protective. I need a fight or flight.
But the ego really doesn't come up for me anymore, to be honest,
because I stay on top of the practices.
And the vibration of this vesselthrough my practice has risen in

(35:50):
such a way where now these two are aligned.
My soul seat and my human self are really quite connected and
they, they have a wonderful agreement how they operate.
And I feel like that's where we're all kind of going.
You know, I think essentially these selves do it dissolve as
we make our way back upward. And I think that goes with the
ego mind as well, the ego entityas well.
Eventually we do step into this higher density, this new Earth,

(36:15):
if you will, and that is a spaceof loving awareness, which is
really quite exciting. Will there be less fear, less
worry, less ego in that process?So yeah, I don't know where I
was going with that, but. Yeah.
So I'm I'm curious because I'm perceiving I might have an
opposing experience. When you are talking about the
ego, what are you talking about?So the ego to me, so I believe

(36:40):
like animals don't have egos, right?
Nature doesn't have egos, nature's have primordial fear,
right? An ego.
An ego is like thinking they're something identified with and
separate from the rest of the all.
So the ego makes itself, it's important of the universe, its
own thing, what have you. And it's also derived from fear,
usually a fear of your experiences.

(37:02):
So a baby is also born without an ego.
A baby is a pure present being, just like an animal.
And when you put a baby in unsafe experiences, the mind
creates narratives and programming, and that's where
the ego is born, if you will. And as a soul, we're not only
identifying with our human thinking mind, we're also
identifying with now the ego mind that has come up during

(37:25):
these intense unsafe experiences.
We're just not able to see at that time that the ego feels
like it's keeping us safe, but really it's keeping us small and
separate. It's not allowing us to be our
authentic self, our full self because of the worrisome fears
or the stories or narratives that it's come up with.
And then that's why like the egois so good about talking you,

(37:49):
about doing, talking you out of doing breath work and
meditation, which is really funny.
Every morning you wake up and like the higher self wants to do
with breath work. It's like, yeah, get up and tell
your person you should get up, you should do breath work.
And then you have this other voice that comes in and it's
like, ah, let's start Monday, let's do this later.
And so I've gotten really good at having my person look at that

(38:09):
and recognize that ego doesn't want to do the breath because in
that higher vibrational space, it dies.
It dissolves every time. And so if I end up being in this
high vibrational space through my breath work, my meditations,
my mantras, my eating health andmy grounding, I'm at such a
vibration that the ego, it's never really there.
It just doesn't exist anymore because it can't exist in that

(38:32):
frequency. It just doesn't exist.
So it's just the human mind. Yeah.
And then this human just keeps advancing as well.
It's pretty cool. OK, so OK, so your your
definition of ego, I think is different than mine.
And I just want to kind of like nail this down because this is
actually I think the most woo woo conversation we've had on
this show. So I'm trying to ground it for

(38:53):
people as much as possible. Please do.
Please do. OK, So what I'm hearing and, and
correct me if I'm wrong, is yourconcept of ego is like the inner
protector that comes out and creates masks for us.
Like as we, we, we start as thisperfect loving awareness baby
and then life comes at us and wefracture off.
And in that fracture, we create a mask, we create behaviors we

(39:16):
could create ways of relating tokeep ourselves safe.
And eventually at some point those stop serving.
And then when they stop serving,that's when we are, I'm very
aware that this trigger thing isjust not working for us anymore.
The survival mechanism doesn't work.
That's that's what I'm hearing you say.
OK, so where do you? So then we we're also talking
about identity, which I think that this is important because

(39:38):
you know, me having a name now all of a sudden I'm identified,
right? Like me walking around telling
people, hi, my name is Liv. That's part of my identity that
I've adopted. I would also maybe if people ask
me about my personality, I mightattach some characteristics to
that that I would say are my identity.
How does like personality or name even my choice to like have

(40:02):
tattoos, my choice to wear lipstick.
Where does all of that fall in this like concept of being
human? And the reason I'm asking is
because when I think about the power of pausing, especially
when triggered. I'm often looking at what am I
attached to, what am I identifying with and what of
that is serving me and not serving me.

(40:23):
If it's serving me, I feel good about it.
I feel good about how it it helps me show up in the world.
If it's not serving me, I don't feel good about it and I don't
like how it's it's having me show up in the world.
But some of. Those things I think are, yeah,
just in my concept, some of those things are egoic on both
sides of the fence. Like I've never felt my ego to
be only the negative things. That's why I'm asking you how

(40:47):
you conceptually. Yeah, I guess, I guess that the
definition of ego is good to make clear.
So for in in my definition of ego, it, it literally means
fear, it derives from fear doesn't offer anything but fear
advice. I mean, I haven't yet to in my
personal experience, like see where my ego is serving, you
know, I can differentiate primordial fear and egoic fear.

(41:09):
And so when I look at my ego, when it does flare up, it's not
giving me words of good advice. It's not telling me to operate
from a place of love. Now it can show me it's a
signpost to operate from love, right?
It could be a signpost that's pointing me in the right
direction to step into my highermind.
And so and then, yeah, for me, identification with anything is

(41:31):
something that I don't do at all.
I don't identify with my thoughts.
I don't identify with my body. I don't identify with my
experience or my titles, but that doesn't mean I can't
experience those things. So I, I've learned to fully
experience my human experience full fully with presence, with
love, with the excitement that Iget to have this experience

(41:52):
without identifying it. And it's like Jesus famous words
be in the world, but not of it, you know, and and then I've
really embodied that to be in And again, that really removed
fear, like fear. I still feel the emotion of
fear, but I don't identify with those emotions.
They're just energy and motion moving through my body.

(42:12):
They're not me. The only real emotion that is
me, that's probably not even an emotion, is love.
That's who I am on the deepest level in the most zoomed out
space is that I am loving awareness.
And so if I can operate from that seat all the time through
my practices and when egos flareup or if my ego flares up, I

(42:32):
have the ability to pause from the seat of loving awareness.
And it can show me where I may be missing the mark so that I
can open back up and step into the higher mind to the higher
seat. And then with that, the ego
dissolves. And then that's what's
beautiful. It's like it also dissolves it
in the person that is showing upmaybe in front of me.

(42:54):
I noticed if my, my woman's ego is present, the last thing I
want is my ego present. It doesn't do any good.
And So what I do is I make sure and, and sometimes my ego can
get triggered and then I have the awareness to pause and watch
that go by or watch it need to be heard or watch it want this
or want that or explain or be right, all ego things.

(43:14):
And I'm like, OK, well, I don't agree with any of those things.
I can see why it's there. I can see from programming and
conditioning why it's there. But yeah, I don't subscribe to
it anymore. It's just the thing that kind of
pops up at this point. It doesn't protect me in any way
of my experiences. It only hinders me when I do
identify with it. Whenever I identify with my ego,
I severely suffer, severely suffer every time I do.

(43:37):
And I think most do, but I thinkmost of us think that primordial
fear and egoic fear are the samething.
And they're very, very differentin, in my eyes.
And so fear is a tool, but it's it's something you don't have to
subscribe to. And eventually, we do eventually
grow out of that fear completely.
This is so juicy. OK, I feel called to like share

(44:00):
my perspective of these guys since we're all sharing our
perspectives. I OK, this is great.
This is so great because our whole podcast is about just like
asking questions and realizing that there's a million different
answers to every single question.
And while they're like questionsmight be finite, like the
answers to the questions never are because there's never one

(44:22):
answer. So this is a fucking awesome
real time experience of how there are so many different ways
to interpret questions or and create answers.
So what I'm when I'm hearing youguys and I'm like connecting to
different pieces and parts and like what's really coming

(44:45):
through for me is that in like Ihave the intuitive sense because
that's all I can go off of because I don't know what's
really happening and I'm kiddingmyself if I say that I do Great
point. I have the intuitive sense that

(45:05):
we come like if we're getting really woo woo, which is super
fun. I have the intuitive sense that
we come to this earth to have the human experience and that
it's like, you know, like going to an amusement park would be
for a human, like, I'm going to like, have this experience and,
you know, play this role and do this thing and go on these rides

(45:28):
and get thrilled and be terrified and laugh and do all
the things. And for me, a part of that
experience is the ego. Like we come here.
Like part of the reason why we come here is to experience the
ego and that the ego is the sense of self.

(45:51):
Because without ego there would be no me.
There would just be like you were saying, just in love,
light, whatever it is. I am the, you know, the soul
that chose to come down here on a high level, and I'm here
because I want to be in me. You know what I mean?

(46:11):
Like I'm here because I want to feel.
I want to be Mellie. I want to have long hair.
I want to feel like a Disney Princess.
I want to, you know, like whatever and that.
But I but there is like, like any experience, there is like
duality to it. There's dimensions to it and

(46:34):
there are adaptive qualities andmaladaptive qualities.
And when you take the sense of self, when you take this
separating identity, that is Mellie is different separate
from Justin, who's separate fromlive.
We are three different people. We're not just all love and like
one, but all. We are three different people

(46:55):
because we're here on this planet with an ego, and that is
part of the experience. That's part of the ride, right?
It's like I want to have the things I want to have because
I'm Mellie and I have this identity and I have this ego
that also though that ego on some level, just like you were

(47:18):
saying, Justin leads me to all of these maladaptive protective
mechanisms that make me worry, have anxiety, have all of these
experiences around what if I die?
Oh, what if my identity is compromised?
Oh, what if somebody makes a fool of me?
What if I get embarrassed? What if I And that all comes

(47:40):
from my attachment to my ego. And So what I feel is in my
intuitive sense, what I feel is maybe a more holistic picture is
there is the integrated ego and the fragmented or disintegrated

(48:00):
ego. That's exactly what I was
thinking. Right.
So it's like the ego that is integrated is I'm Melly.
I love dancing, I love my family, I love putting on
makeup. I love going for long walks.
I you know, that's my integratedego.
And then my disintegrated ego isdon't abandoned me, I'm afraid

(48:24):
you're going to abandon me. Don't embarrass me.
Oh my God, if I do this then I'mgoing to fail.
I can't sleep at night because of all the shit I have to do
tomorrow. It's all of these perceived like
you were saying, just in worries, fears, tumultuous
thoughts that keep me fragmentedand disintegrated in my egoic
experience. However, if and when and to me

(48:49):
this is the goal as the human right, because we're here for a
human experience. The point is not to become
everybody else, right? Like you were saying, I am on
the earth and, and I'm not like,yes, I'm a part of the earth.
Yes, I'm connected to the earth,but I am a part of it.

(49:09):
I'm a part of this system and I get to my own piece of the
puzzle. And in that, to me, what the
goal seems like is rather than to eradicate the ego, it is to
integrate the ego into the humanexperience.
So that I can be Melly and love the things that I love and do
the things that I do as the individual self, but not let

(49:32):
that separate me from the world to the point of fear, anxiety,
distrust, hate, whatever the fuck else it is.
And that is like, that's where Ilike to play with like my ego is
this thing. And yes, I love what you were
saying about like the parenting.And I love that.

(49:54):
Like the idea of the pause in like what Liv was saying, like
what happens in that space? And like you answered the
question in so many words where you are like, what essentially
what happens in that space is you get to become your own
parent. You get to say, hey, Justin,
like actually you're going to dobreath work today even though
you don't want to. And and that is the the

(50:14):
beautiful space of integration of the ego where I get to now
pause long enough to where I getto be my ego's parent and
integrate it as kind of like my child and bring it with me
everywhere I go and just kind oflike keep it in check.

(50:36):
I love it and thank you for expressing that.
And and it allows me to also, I think clarify that it's not
about, for me, it's not about eradicating the ego.
It's just naturally dissolves aswe shift in vibration.
Yeah. So there's a there's a yeah.
I just want to be clear. It's, it's never my, it's never
my approach to like, I don't want the ego or like the ego is

(50:59):
not needed. And like I said, the ego's a
wonderful signpost to my evolution and what I'm stepping
into. And so it's, it's a definitely a
part of the, the experience. I just what's happened since I,
I've kind of stepped into this higher vibration, It just hasn't
shown up for me as much. It just doesn't really come

(51:21):
through and, and almost always like and, and that's been really
nice. And, and with that, it allows me
to actually be myopically present and deeply connected to
my human experience because the mind isn't getting in the way of
all with no thought. And so I get to fully embody

(51:42):
being just and I get to fully embody the time I have with my
dogs. I get to fully embody being in a
relationship or one day being a father because of that and, and
amazing presence that I'm havingwithout the mind overtaking or
distracting or, or what have you, or fear.

(52:03):
And so I've also been able to feel more deeply due to the, the
connection to the present moments.
Like I'm always on mushrooms, ifyou will, you know what I mean?
And, and, and that's also the, the same ego that dissolves in
mushrooms when it's like waitingfor it and that intense feeling
like, and then we fall into thatoneness and then we're like, Oh,
OK, this is this is also home and a remembrance, if you will.

(52:26):
So I agree with everything you just said.
And I love the terminologies that you used too, because it
also allowed me to be better about clarifying certain things.
So it's understood better. So thank you.
Thank you, this was really awesome.
Yeah, I, I think that this was great because that is something

(52:47):
that we talk about all the time is like we're idea agnostic and
we want to hear from all different perspectives.
And it's fun when it seems like we're talking about something
entirely different, and then we come to the middle and realize.
Oh, we are all one. We were.
Coming to the same conclusion. And I tend to like also just
intuitively subscribe to almost verbatim the way that Millie
described it. And I'm hearing like the

(53:10):
parallels and I kind of just want to break down because of,
again, you like you're using some language that's outside of
my typical lexicon. So just to ground it for myself
and maybe anyone else listening,when you say the ego dissolves,
what I think I'm hearing you're saying is like, OK, so use an
example. When you're with your partner
and she has an ego trigger come up and you practice pausing.

(53:32):
And in the practice of that pause, you make a conscious
choice even if you feel your trigger to go, OK, I see that.
I can feel that I'm going to letthat move.
And that's the disillusion. That's where it dissolves.
It's not that you've eradicated your ego and you're some
superhuman who doesn't experience ego.
You're you see it for what it is.
You let it, you let it move. You let the energy and motion

(53:55):
just move in this space. Yes.
Right, 'cause the identificationis where you grab onto it,
right? And that's where I was talking
about. I need justice she's accusing me
of. This I.
Didn't do that. OK, OK, yeah, that's OK.
That now it's like all piercing together for me that that's what
you were kind of talking about and getting AT.
And for me, so how I've come to like create a relationship with

(54:18):
my ego is to recognize that I can use it to keep me in line
with my higher values, right? So I think personally, for me, I
think having values at all is egoic.
And it's egoic in a way that cankeep me.
It's like bumper lanes, right? So if I feel triggered and I
choose to lean into, OK, well, one of my greatest values is to

(54:41):
be kind and compassionate and also to be patient and listen.
This egoic trigger wants me to command, wants me to condescend,
wants me to rush, wants me to interrupt.
No, I'm I am Liv and I am patient and I am kind and I am
compassionate because I fucking say so.
So I'm gonna pause here and I'm gonna calm down.
I'm gonna breathe into my body. I'm gonna let this move before I

(55:04):
speak so that I am egoically in alignment with the way that I
would like to show up. And see how you.
Stand that. Yeah, that's why I was like,
what do you mean by ego, 'cause my ego's a good girl when I say
so. Words are words are funny.
Words are funny, the definitionsof things.
And so, yeah, I think we're all,we're all saying the same thing.
We are saying the same thing. Yeah, No, I love that though.

(55:27):
Like it's like I'm speaking French, you're speaking
Mandarin. You're.
Speaking Spanish and we're all coming together to decode.
Yeah, I speak a little ethereal for sure.
No, I. Love it, though.
What's so awesome, though, is that, like, the whole topic of
this podcast was like, why we should pause.
And we quite literally, like demonstrated we all have

(55:48):
opportunities to do that. Pause.
Yeah. Yeah, that's that's, that's the
beauty of it, right. There was something I did want
to add. You mentioned the ability to say
eradicate or what have you. When it comes to say my woman's
triggered or anybody's triggered.
What I have recently learned just through my studying of

(56:10):
again, like hermeticism and energy and vibration is we do
have that ability to transmute and alchemize energy in real
time. And I do it all the time, to be
honest, like even at the airport, you know, you ever
noticed that when you're riding to the airport, you're driving
to a very specific location where the energy is chaotic,

(56:33):
frustrating, nobody likes it. And while you're driving that
you're entering into this very powerful collective bubble of
anxiety and frustration. And if you're not aware of that,
you can take that energy and claim it as your own.
For one, no. I absolutely have been guilty of
that. We all have, you know, getting a
fight with the TSA guy for no reason.
And then when I became aware of,you know, not claiming energy

(56:56):
and allowing energy to move through me, I also learned I
have the ability to alchemize and shift the energy in my space
and with my intention, with my thoughts and with my love.
And so if any time I would go into the airport now one I'm
radiating with my loving light, knowing that I'm stepping in the
space and I in fact, in influence people that are around

(57:17):
me. And if I see the TSA guy is
upset or frustrated or his attitude, I'll telepathically be
like, Hey, I love you my bro, thank you for working here.
I send you love and light. And I see in real time this
transmution. It's amazing to watch it happen.
And I do it with my partner and I either do it with my words or
I do it with physical touch as well.
And a lot of times it's like I don't have to do or say

(57:39):
anything. It's more so about
transmutation. And so that's this stuff that
I'm talking about now is very, very ancient knowledge, but also
just very, I wouldn't say secretive, but it's not well
known by the public either. So I'd recommend everybody
checking out the Hermetic principles, the laws or

(57:59):
principles that govern the entire universe.
And when you understand these laws or principles, mainly
understanding energy, vibration and frequency and, and having a
deeper understanding of who you are, you can manage this energy
because that's what it really boils down to.
The ego, our thoughts, all of ittriggers.
Everything is just vibration. Everything is just energy

(58:21):
vibrating. And so when we can see that and
we can use our thoughts, our words, our behaviors and our
actions with loving vibrations, we actually can transmute things
in real time and calm people down or open people back up or
have people feel safe that were once in fear through that
energy, through that awareness. So I did want to point that out,
but that's a whole nother, yeah.That's like a giant can of

(58:44):
worms. And yeah, it's a whole thing.
Yeah. And yeah.
And, and what you're saying is very real and I think relatable
to people in the sense of like, I think we all know people who
are just magnetic in one way or other.
Like, you know, everyone knows the person who walks in the room
and everybody's like, you're here, yay.
And, you know, probably everybody knows somebody who
walks in the room and they're like, oh God, they're here now.

(59:06):
Right. Like, yeah, yeah.
They're everybody, you know, everybody has kind of an energy
about them. You know, I've met a lot of
people like, you know, who have like sweet old lady energy and
you just perceive them to be baking cookies and they're not
necessarily actually doing that.They just have that energy and
you're like, oh, she's got this vibe, she's giving this energy.
And that's really what Justin's talking about, is we actually
have some say over how our we'revibrating and what our energy

(59:32):
signature is and whether we, youknow, make the frowning
cashier's day slightly better orslightly worse.
Wonderful. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's wonderful. You know, awareness in that
space, that's honestly been one of the biggest things that has
changed my way of being. And it's one of the more
important things that I do teachall of the clients that I mentor

(59:53):
is as I do focus on a lot of theenergy aspect of it.
There's ways of getting there, of course, without activating
the ego or not. What's the word I'm looking for
validating its experience as well.
And that has been also a wonderful, sometimes challenging
path through the process as well, learning how to.

(01:00:16):
Have baby steps with certain information as we awaken, as we
remember. So yeah, this has been really
helpful too. Just with your guys's feedback
on the way. Sometimes I articulate things
that allows me to see and use better language so that it
actually lands even better. So thank you.
Oh yeah? Well, we both know you're an

(01:00:38):
alien and a human body. You did not remember.
We're just helping translate your wisdom.
I appreciate that. Yeah.
That's so funny. I remember when Dustin and I
were together, I would, I would always be like, words matter.
Words matter. I understand why you're so
intense. It was a wonderful lesson.

(01:00:59):
I learned a lot from you. I really did learned a lot.
It was wonderful. I learned a lot from you.
It was really great in our relationship.
It definitely made me a better person.
Your love for me made me expand in ways that I couldn't even
imagine. And it's made me also the person
I am today. So thank you.
Thank you for being beautiful. Yeah, thank.

(01:01:19):
You to hear that from an ex lover is so juicy.
That's doing something for me too.
Thank you. Thank you both.
I appreciate you both and the work that you do and who you are
and very grateful for both of you.
I miss you both very much. Yeah.
I. Miss you too, too, Papa.
Tell us, where can people find you?

(01:01:40):
Social media is probably where you can mostly find me.
Justin D Lovato or Nirvana Mind,Body and Soul or just Nirvana
Mind Body soul.com and you can come check us out.
We have wonderful communities, Nirvana Nation as well.
Essentially, like I said, like Imainly help individuals that are
struggling with the mind and, and want to step into that
higher mind, that higher self. So yeah, come check me out on

(01:02:02):
Instagram or the website and come say what's up.
Amazing. Thank you so much for.
Being here too. Appreciate you guys.
All right, babes like follow, subscribe, comment.
We'd love to hear what you thought about this episode and
follow us on Instagram at babe dot philosophy.
We love you later. Babes, thank you for listening

(01:02:25):
to Babe Philosophy. If you enjoy the show, please
like, rate and subscribe wherever you listen and follow
us on Instagram at Babe dot Philosophy.
Later babes.

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