August 26, 2025 • 24 mins
Welcome to Babes n Sports — where accomplished sports professionals Jamie Hersch and Tory Zawacki Roy pull back the curtain on what it’s really like to juggle motherhood with high-pressure careers in the male-dominated world of sports.
With honesty and humor, Jamie (a play-by-play announcer for professional women’s hockey and soccer) and Tory (a 15-year ESPN storytelling veteran and former collegiate tennis player) share their personal journeys and the unique challenges working moms face in sports media.
This week’s Mansplain Moment of the Week has Tory reliving a cringeworthy exchange where she was forced to defend her NFL knowledge mid-interview. Meanwhile, Jamie reflects on finding unexpected empowerment in saying no to an assignment so she could prioritize being mom first. Together, they explore the guilt that comes with turning things down — and the relief and strength that follow when family comes first.
Subscribe now for real conversations about chasing big career goals while raising families, and connect with Jamie (@JamieHersch), Tory (@Tzawacki), and the show (@babensportspodcast) on social media.
Follow the conversation on instagram @babesnsportspodcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hi,
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
everyone, and welcome to the Babes in Sports
podcast.
We are so excited you're here.
My name's Jamie Hirsch.
I'm
SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
Tori Z.
Roy.
We're two friends navigatingbeing mothers, wives, and
successful women in thedemanding, male-dominated world
of sports.
SPEAKER_00 (00:25):
Yes.
So in case you're new here,welcome.
And if you're not new here,thanks so much for listening.
We have been blown away by theamount of support and
encouragement that we've had inthis early stage of trying this
new podcasting thing for thevery first time.
We are both professionals whowork in the male dominated world
of sports, as Tori said, butalso trying to be moms.
(00:46):
My quick background is I've donestudio hosting and reporting for
just about every sport there isfor the past 15 years or so.
And And I'm now currentlyfocusing mostly on play-by-play
with the National Women's SoccerLeague.
So that's really what most of myattention is on right now.
Tor.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06):
So dope.
It's so good that you canactually focus on one sport,
right?
Instead of just trying to dabblein baseball and dabble in hockey
and make sure you're getting allthese names.
It's like a breath of fresh air.
So for me, I'm working on our USOpen coverage at the moment as
we start to dip into NFL season.
As a former tennis player,former college athlete, tennis
is my first love language, butit was an easy transition to be
(01:28):
at ESPN for the next 15 yearsafter that.
So yeah, we've kind of seen itall.
We've done it all.
And that's what makes ourexperiences so similar.
but also different.
Like we are so compatible in somany ways yet in different
venues of sports around theworld, which is so cool.
And I'm really proud that we'refriends and we can do this.
So thank you.
Yes, of course.
SPEAKER_00 (01:48):
I will always say that I will forever think of you
during the US Open because ofour amazing memories that we've
had there.
Hashtag honey deuce.
If you know, you know, and Iwish I were there right now.
I went last year with my aunt.
It was so fun, but it would begreat for you and I to one day
reconvene.
at the US Open.
SPEAKER_01 (02:07):
Just experience it and enjoy it.
Right.
Yeah, because you worked itmostly.
I was working so many yearsthere.
Yeah.
Yeah, that I honestly didn'thave a honey deuce for the first
time until like last year.
I had the frosé honey deuce.
So I knew I'm going this week.
I highly just won though.
SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (02:24):
strong.
SPEAKER_00 (02:25):
And there's like$30 right now.
So it'll set you back quite abit if you end up.
They better
SPEAKER_01 (02:30):
fill it up.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
for real.
All right.
So before we get into thepodcast, just again, kind of
recap being what we're doinghere.
We're going to be sharing ourstories as moms and also the
pressures of being a mom whileworking in a male-dominated
field.
We're hoping to have a lot ofreally great guests throughout
the course of this podcast.
Women who are in the sportsindustry as well or strong
female figures, maybe not evenin sports, but just kind of,
(02:53):
again, in male-dominated fields.
So if you're watching and youare that person or you know that
person, please leave a commentand we'll reach out and
hopefully we can connect thatway.
It'll be really fun.
SPEAKER_01 (03:04):
We've learned a lot in the last week.
Haven't we, Jane?
SPEAKER_00 (03:07):
Oh, we sure have.
If only the viewers slashlisteners could hear and see
what is going on behind thescenes.
This is really fun.
And also a great encouragementto anyone out there thinking of
doing a podcast.
Hey, why not?
If we can do it, you can too.
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
Let us fall so you can rise.
That's what we're doing here.
That's all.
And Jamie, you touched on thisearlier.
I want to just also take amoment to give a quick shout out
to everyone who took some timeto listen, comment, send us
words of encouragement onstarting our show.
You have no idea how much thatmeans to us.
Just hearing it and even ourclosest friends, our family
reaching out, that's so coolbecause we're so passionate
(03:47):
about this.
So thank you.
And I also want to say howvaluable relationships are that
we make in this industry.
I've had the opportunity to workalongside our editor, Rachel
Kott, And now I can call her adear friend.
And Rachel, thank you for beinga badass woman in this industry
and for being here for us forthis crazy journey.
So we've got more coming up.
Let's go into episode two.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (04:07):
Yeah.
All right, so today's topic isgoing to really center around
the idea of setting boundariesat work.
It is something we talk about,we certainly think about, but do
we actually do it?
(04:27):
And how have we done it?
Did it take us a long time to doit?
Are we still not really good atdoing it?
And so I guess I just wanted tokind of talk to you, Tori, about
the value of saying no.
I feel like so often in thisindustry, and especially if
you're a woman in this industry,where opportunities were fewer
and farther between, Everyonetold me throughout my early
(04:49):
years, say yes to everything.
And I took that to heart and Idid.
And I worked overtime in myfirst job making$12 an hour.
Shout out Madison, Wisconsin,local news, local TV sports.
UNKNOWN (05:01):
Woo.
SPEAKER_00 (05:02):
What a ride.
But I said yes to everything.
And since then, like, I mean, myschedule changed.
mostly when I was at MLB Networkand NHL Network, it was
literally all over the placebecause sports happen every
single day, right?
So I didn't have a Mondaythrough Friday, hardly ever.
Like more often than not, Iwould have a Tuesday, Wednesday
(05:24):
off, or I'd have like a Tuesday,Saturday off that work week.
And it was crazy before I hadkids.
And then once I had kids, it goteven crazier, right?
And so I didn't say no for along time because I just felt
like that team player mentalitywhere I was like, I am going to
do what's best for the good ofthe team, the good of the
(05:45):
company.
And sure, if someone needs aswap last minute, or if they
need me to work a double shift,of course, yes, I'll make it
work at all costs.
And those costs ended up gettinghigher and higher once you have
kids, right?
It ends up being a big stressorin your marriage, frankly.
And especially, my husband worksa normal job, so it was always
(06:07):
him who had to read rearrangehis schedule because I was
saying yes to every tweak andchange that my schedule threw at
us.
So that's kind of my experiencebefore we get into like how we
change our mindset around that.
I want to hear your experience,Tor, about the pressures of
saying yes.
SPEAKER_01 (06:29):
A thousand percent.
And I think anyone who hasstarted young in the sports
industry, sports media industry,can say that there is this
feeling of you're replaceable,right?
So if it's not doing it for thebetter of the team, it's doing
it because if you say no, if youdon't seem like you're willing
(06:51):
to do whatever it takes to makea show better, to make a small
segment in the show better, tojust be there, to run the
teleprompter at the craziesthours of the day, if you're not
willing to do that, then don'tworry.
Someone is waiting at our frontdoor to take your job.
And of course, that was never,it's never literally said to
you, but back when we started, Iwould say Yes.
(07:12):
Yes.
(07:34):
Yeah.
So like I didn't, it was alreadyhard enough to get my foot in
the door.
I didn't, I didn't want to messanything up.
So yes, you need me to be in at3am, you know, fine.
You're also 22 years old, 23years old, and you're starting
with people who are also thesame age.
So we're all in it together.
It was like college extended.
So yeah, for whatever thatreason is that it stays with
(07:57):
you, it's very deep.
SPEAKER_00 (07:58):
I would say it took me a long time to feel
comfortable saying no.
And by a within the last year ortwo, right?
I only recently realized if Idon't show up, someone else will
do that and it will be okay.
And I might miss something, butthere's always going to be that
(08:19):
next thing, right?
There's always going to be thatnext assignment.
The world keeps turning even ifI'm not there hosting that show
or reporting on this assignment.
And that, I will say, Thecraziest part, and now I love
telling young people especiallythis, the craziest thing that I
have learned is that as I say nomore...
(08:42):
It's like a weird phenomenon andI'm not saying it's going to
happen to everyone every time.
But for me, I have found when Isay no, oftentimes that will
lead to that person, thatcompany, that network asking for
another opportunity.
Okay, so you can't do this.
What about this?
And that has been like mindblowing.
Like I can say no and they stillare going to want me even if
(09:05):
they have to work around myschedule a little bit.
Like that has been soempowering.
And again, I understand ifyou're young and you're just
starting out, that may not bethere.
That privilege might not bethere.
But I would encourage anyone whofeels a little more established
in their industry, in theirrole, to say no every now and
(09:26):
then for legit reasons.
Your family is a legitimatereason.
Your spouse not being able towork around their schedule,
that's a legit reason for you tobe able to say no.
No, I need to be home with mykids that day.
Or no, this is my son'sgraduation or something like
that.
That's a legit reason.
And when you start saying no,you might actually find that
(09:49):
people are going to understandthat and they will still
accommodate, even if you feellike it's scary to say no.
SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
that is such good advice.
And it's almost like, wishsomebody had told me that, you
know?
Um, so because it is, it's true.
It's just, it's an unspokenthing.
It it's there.
Um, so when it, when it 10 yearsago, Jamie would have liked to
hear that.
So that's, that's what we'retrying to say.
Um, if anyone's out there thatis feeling pressure, feeling
overworked, um, it's a, it's a,it is okay to say that.
(10:19):
Um, did you ever feel too, like,I don't know, sometimes in our
industry there, there's a boysclub, you know, just not going
to beat around it like it justis like it it's been male
dominated for a long time umwe're finally starting to shift
the curve a little bit butsometimes i feel it's a badge of
(10:40):
honor when people talk about allthe stuff that they've missed
for their job have you evernoticed that when it's like oh
yeah no i had to travel for 48hours straight to get this
interview done but i got it doneand it's like okay cool that's
great if you feel that way ijust it adds the pressure a
little bit in my mind to be likedo i have to do that like yeah i
don't want No,
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
it's not a badge of honor.
Yeah.
I mean, there are so many wayswe could take this conversation.
Cause I definitely feel thatwhere it's like people want to
sound impressive by being busieror missing more or doing more.
And sometimes there's real valuein doing less.
And that by that, I mean lesswork.
(11:20):
Like I, we made a very consciousdecision to move our family to
Las Vegas from the New York cityarea.
area where we had been foralmost a decade because not for
a job but for family because Irealized that at some point like
I wanted my life to look acertain way and feel a certain
(11:41):
way and while my whole lifethroughout forever as long as I
can remember it's been careerdriven it's been career oriented
what's going to be best for mycareer what makes sense in terms
of a next step at some point Irealized I care more about what
my life looks like and my lifeis a lot bigger than just my
job.
Was there ever a work assignmenttour that you had to say no to?
(12:03):
All the time.
SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
Yeah.
All the time.
And I just became okay with itin the last two years.
I would beat myself up about it.
I remember I had just hadBraxton.
I had just come back to work.
He was maybe six months old,maybe seven, eight months.
And we just brought a nanny into start working with us.
And I got a call like, hey, wehave a Josh Allen sit down
(12:26):
tomorrow.
I need you to be in BuffaloMm-hmm.
(12:59):
it is funny how things work outbecause that's what my job
turned into for like two, threeyears.
But I just, I just want to likeshake that girl and be like,
Tori, like you cannot go toBuffalo tomorrow.
You just had a baby.
It's really hard.
And it's, I don't know why thatthis is like the first time that
I think the industry, sometimesit feels like it's the first
(13:19):
time they've ever had to hearthat, you know?
Yeah.
And it's just like, but thatdoesn't make sense.
It doesn't.
And I'm glad that I'm still theperson that they want to be
there for a big interview.
like that.
Sometimes it's okay.
And you know what?
I still got even cooleropportunities after that.
SPEAKER_00 (13:33):
Exactly.
Yeah.
There's always another game.
There's always anotherassignment.
I mean, I have a coupleexamples, but most recently, I
remember being at the NWSLheadquarters where we all call
play-by-play and they bringeveryone in and we call all the
games remotely.
So it's kind of cool because youhave a little bit of camaraderie
(13:53):
with everyone.
But I was talking to a fewpeople and I was saying, I'm new
here and I feel bad because theyasked me to do a couple games in
September, but I can't do them.
So I'm going to have to say no.
How does that work?
And they all looked at me like,well, most people are trying to
get more games.
You don't give up your games.
And I sat there like, but I haveto.
(14:15):
And I did.
And what's great is my boss andscheduler was so, so cool about
it.
She was like, no, of course.
Totally.
We'll figure it out.
We've got other people who cando it.
And I felt good.
but I was like this is just youknow this is kind of
non-negotiable for me.
I have to be able to feel like Ican put my family first.
(14:37):
And if I had something thatweekend or travel plans or a big
event or something, you have tobe able to say no and it will be
okay.
And guess what?
I still am going there.
They didn't fire me or let mego.
I just didn't work those twoweekends or whatever.
And it was okay.
And then I think the otherbiggest example that I can think
(14:58):
of is the Stanley Cup final.
That is definitely Anytime I gotto cover a Stanley Cup final, I
was just in awe of how cool thatis.
You know, I think it's thehardest trophy to win in sports
and it's a grind of two monthsof playoffs every single day.
Like it's crazy.
And so you see the emotion likepouring out of these players and
(15:20):
coaches when they finally hoistthe Stanley Cup and you
understand the magnitude of whatthat trophy really means.
And so to be able to coversomething like that.
And it's
SPEAKER_01 (15:27):
the end of the season for you too.
You've been covering the wholeseason.
So it's like everyone is in thistogether, finishing it together.
It's so rewarding.
SPEAKER_00 (15:34):
Yeah.
So it's, yeah, it's, it'sreally, really awesome to get to
cover assignments like that.
But, um, I got pregnant and hada baby at the end of April.
And so there was no doubt in mymind, like I'm not going to the
Stanley cup final in mid June.
And so, yes, I missed thatStanley cup final.
(15:54):
That was the epic seven gameback and forth between the
Bruins and the blues.
And I would have loved to bethere, but I wasn't, I was at
home on the couch.
with my six week old baby.
And that was where I wassupposed to be.
And there was another StanleyCup final.
Turns out it would be a fewyears because this thing called
COVID happened and I didn'tcover it again in 2020 or 2021.
(16:17):
But yeah, that's probably 11months when the Stanley Cup
would have been going on.
And same thing.
I wanted to go really badly, butI was like, okay, the Stanley
Cup final for anyone who doesn'tknow hockey super well, it is
the best of seven.
And there's all these extraextra days off for travel and
practice and everything.
And it can take up to 20 days tocomplete.
(16:39):
So skip ahead to like 2022.
And that would have been myfirst chance to be back full
coverage Stanley Cup final.
And I just felt like I couldn'tbe gone that long.
Like for anyone who doesn't knowthat much about hockey, like
it's two and a half weeks if itgoes seven games.
That's a long time.
It could be up to 20 days,actually.
It's almost three weeks.
(17:00):
And I just felt like that wasnot a thing I could actually do.
ask my kids and husband to do isto have me be gone for that
amount of time.
So I agreed to do half of it.
But what ended up happening wasI missed the cup clinching game
because I only did half of it.
And that was really a tough pillto swallow.
So that's an example ofsomething that, you know, if I
weren't a mom, there was noquestion I would have been there
(17:21):
through all seven games.
If it went seven, didn't matter.
But when you're a mom, you havethese dueling interests and your
heart is in multiple places atonce.
And, um, it's just the, TheCrossy Bear.
SPEAKER_01 (17:36):
I see that as a blessing that we get to have
these, these passions pulling usin these directions, right?
Like it just makes you morewhole person.
So that's how we got it.
And good for you.
Good for you for, you know what?
It took us, it took us way toolong, but we had to, we had no
other way.
Like, I just think we're so usedto putting our careers first in
hard work, hard work, hard work.
(17:56):
Yeah.
That when you suddenly can'tmake that your priority, you
have to adjust.
So we have to forgive ourselvesa little bit, you know, and then
it's okay that we, we had totake some time to yeah like let
it go like yeah just it's okayso we got there yeah no matter
SPEAKER_00 (18:13):
yeah and just kind of to to end this part of our
conversation like i i feel likethe whole idea of saying no to
work is a big deal when you takea step back and look at life in
general right like someone toldme once no one ever looks at a
tombstone and it says hardestworker best employee like never
like this is morbid right butlike if you think about it like
(18:35):
when We are on our deathbed.
SPEAKER_01 (19:05):
of similar feelings, let us know, hit us up.
We finally have our Instagram,babes in sports podcast at Jamie
Hirsch at T's a wacky.
Let us know what you'rethinking.
Let us know if you've beenthrough this times where you had
to say no and had a hard time.
We're here.
Mance Blaine moment of the week.
I'm going to go this timebecause this one has stuck with
(19:27):
me for a long time, Jame, and Iwould love to hear your thoughts
on it.
But I had the opportunity tointerview Dr.
James Andrews for a story acouple of years back.
For those who might not know,Dr.
Andrews is the orthopedicsurgeon to the stars.
He's operated on Michael Jordan,Tom Brady.
The list goes on.
He's just the guy you'd call ifyou're a pro athlete.
I was there to talk to him abouthis work on Drew Brees, who tore
(19:50):
his shoulder labrum back in2005.
So the story.
I had pitched and was coveringwas how Drew had written thank
you notes to everyone who hadimpacted him his entire career,
like personal handwritten notes.
And Dr.
James Andrews received thepersonalized letter,
personalized signed footballwith his name on it, like really
nice, like says a lot about DrewBrees, pretty cool story.
(20:13):
He operated on Drew's shoulder.
He essentially saved his careerby doing that.
So during the interview, the wayI had phrased one of the
questions included like, oh, thegame that Drew got hurt, you
know, that ended up being hislast game for the San Diego
Chargers.
Someone in the room interruptsme, like wasn't live, you know,
(20:35):
but we started the interview.
We were recording and he goes,the saints.
Do you mean, you mean thesaints?
And you can see it on thetranscript.
You see it.
I've like, it's hilarious.
Cause I go, no, no, no.
He was the chargers.
He was, he was playing for thechargers.
That was the last game with thecharger.
And that guy showed up realquick.
Wow.
(20:55):
I cannot.
I don't know.
You know, I know I'm there for areason.
You're not
SPEAKER_00 (21:01):
just a pretty face, Tori.
You know what I mean?
Oh, my gosh.
No, that is so maddening and sodisrespectful.
Even if that person was thinkingit, to say that, to blurt that
out mid-interview that you areconducting, that is
unconscionable.
UNKNOWN (21:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (21:21):
Right.
If I just messed up my whole,
SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
like, you know, when you're in the rhythm.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:25):
Yeah.
I mean, if our listeners couldsee
SPEAKER_01 (21:27):
Dr.
Andrews though, so
SPEAKER_00 (21:29):
I'm sure you did.
Wow.
I
SPEAKER_01 (21:31):
appreciate you.
SPEAKER_00 (21:33):
Yeah.
That is incredible.
Yeah.
You knew your stuff.
This is the, this is the pointthat women work our asses off to
make sure we know our stuffbecause we want to be credible
because credibility is so hard.
Yeah.
And so easy to lose as a womanin sports.
So, Wow.
I mean, props to you forcontinuing on being the pro that
(21:56):
you are.
Thank you.
That would make me literallystop and be like, excuse me.
Man, that makes my blood
SPEAKER_01 (22:02):
boil.
I think I was just so shockedthat I was like, like,
SPEAKER_00 (22:06):
God.
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (22:07):
But hey, keep up.
Keep giving your mansplainmoments because they're so
cringe.
And we love just hearing all theother ones because it makes us
feel a lot better.
We got one more thing.
I lied.
We got one more thing.
if anyone wants to join us inthis ridiculousness.
SPEAKER_00 (22:23):
Yes.
Okay.
So Tori recently celebrated amilestone birthday.
We went to Napa.
We'll get into it later becauseit was epic.
We've been
SPEAKER_01 (22:31):
to Napa.
SPEAKER_00 (22:32):
Epic trip, Napa Valley, heaven on earth.
Could not recommend enough.
But as most Napa trips involvenot, Tori thought that we should
do a three minute plank tooffset all of the wine and all
of the food that we were having.
So we actually did it.
And there were only three of us,the whole group.
There were eight of us and onlythree of us.
(22:53):
It was four of us.
SPEAKER_01 (22:54):
It was
SPEAKER_00 (22:54):
four of us.
SPEAKER_01 (22:55):
Okay, four of us.
So half the group.
And I had gave everyone a headsup.
We had been training.
We had been practicing for thismoment.
SPEAKER_00 (23:01):
And I just want to say that.
I did not practice, which is whyit was brutal.
Wait, what?
No, I didn't practice plankingbefore that.
I don't like planking.
That's not my jam.
I'm such a loser.
No, I'm proud of you.
I'm good.
And that's why your form wasbetter than mine.
Anyway, we decided to do a threeminute plank and we did it.
We cried.
We did it.
SPEAKER_01 (23:51):
You're at a minute 30.
Thanks buddy.
Thanks buddy.
So he kept us going, but yeah,shout out to Jamie, shout out to
myself, shout out to Alan.
We for making the three minutechallenge.
So let's do it.
Why not?
SPEAKER_00 (24:03):
Let's do it.
Everyone.
Yes.
Everyone.
That is your challenge.
Jamie, take us home, babe.
Mamas or not.
Doesn't matter.
Do the three minute plank andlet us know how it goes for you.
We will reconvene.
We're going to try to drop anepisode every Tuesday, so be
sure to check it out.
Put your notifications on,subscribe wherever you get your
local podcast.
And check us out on YouTubeeventually.
(24:23):
And yes, thanks again forwatching and listening to Babes
in Sports.
I'm Jamie Hirsch.
She's Tori Z.
Roy.
And we will see you next time.
Thanks, guys.
Hi,
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
everyone, and welcome to the Babes in Sports
podcast.
We are so excited you're here.
My name's Jamie Hirsch.
I'm
SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
Tori Z.
Roy.
We're two friends navigatingbeing mothers, wives, and
successful women in thedemanding, male-dominated world
of sports.
SPEAKER_00 (00:25):
Yes.
So in case you're new here,welcome.
And if you're not new here,thanks so much for listening.
We have been blown away by theamount of support and
encouragement that we've had inthis early stage of trying this
new podcasting thing for thevery first time.
We are both professionals whowork in the male dominated world
of sports, as Tori said, butalso trying to be moms.
(00:46):
My quick background is I've donestudio hosting and reporting for
just about every sport there isfor the past 15 years or so.
And And I'm now currentlyfocusing mostly on play-by-play
with the National Women's SoccerLeague.
So that's really what most of myattention is on right now.
Tor.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06):
So dope.
It's so good that you canactually focus on one sport,
right?
Instead of just trying to dabblein baseball and dabble in hockey
and make sure you're getting allthese names.
It's like a breath of fresh air.
So for me, I'm working on our USOpen coverage at the moment as
we start to dip into NFL season.
As a former tennis player,former college athlete, tennis
is my first love language, butit was an easy transition to be
(01:28):
at ESPN for the next 15 yearsafter that.
So yeah, we've kind of seen itall.
We've done it all.
And that's what makes ourexperiences so similar.
but also different.
Like we are so compatible in somany ways yet in different
venues of sports around theworld, which is so cool.
And I'm really proud that we'refriends and we can do this.
So thank you.
Yes, of course.
SPEAKER_00 (01:48):
I will always say that I will forever think of you
during the US Open because ofour amazing memories that we've
had there.
Hashtag honey deuce.
If you know, you know, and Iwish I were there right now.
I went last year with my aunt.
It was so fun, but it would begreat for you and I to one day
reconvene.
at the US Open.
SPEAKER_01 (02:07):
Just experience it and enjoy it.
Right.
Yeah, because you worked itmostly.
I was working so many yearsthere.
Yeah.
Yeah, that I honestly didn'thave a honey deuce for the first
time until like last year.
I had the frosé honey deuce.
So I knew I'm going this week.
I highly just won though.
SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (02:24):
strong.
SPEAKER_00 (02:25):
And there's like$30 right now.
So it'll set you back quite abit if you end up.
They better
SPEAKER_01 (02:30):
fill it up.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
for real.
All right.
So before we get into thepodcast, just again, kind of
recap being what we're doinghere.
We're going to be sharing ourstories as moms and also the
pressures of being a mom whileworking in a male-dominated
field.
We're hoping to have a lot ofreally great guests throughout
the course of this podcast.
Women who are in the sportsindustry as well or strong
female figures, maybe not evenin sports, but just kind of,
(02:53):
again, in male-dominated fields.
So if you're watching and youare that person or you know that
person, please leave a commentand we'll reach out and
hopefully we can connect thatway.
It'll be really fun.
SPEAKER_01 (03:04):
We've learned a lot in the last week.
Haven't we, Jane?
SPEAKER_00 (03:07):
Oh, we sure have.
If only the viewers slashlisteners could hear and see
what is going on behind thescenes.
This is really fun.
And also a great encouragementto anyone out there thinking of
doing a podcast.
Hey, why not?
If we can do it, you can too.
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
Let us fall so you can rise.
That's what we're doing here.
That's all.
And Jamie, you touched on thisearlier.
I want to just also take amoment to give a quick shout out
to everyone who took some timeto listen, comment, send us
words of encouragement onstarting our show.
You have no idea how much thatmeans to us.
Just hearing it and even ourclosest friends, our family
reaching out, that's so coolbecause we're so passionate
(03:47):
about this.
So thank you.
And I also want to say howvaluable relationships are that
we make in this industry.
I've had the opportunity to workalongside our editor, Rachel
Kott, And now I can call her adear friend.
And Rachel, thank you for beinga badass woman in this industry
and for being here for us forthis crazy journey.
So we've got more coming up.
Let's go into episode two.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (04:07):
Yeah.
All right, so today's topic isgoing to really center around
the idea of setting boundariesat work.
It is something we talk about,we certainly think about, but do
we actually do it?
(04:27):
And how have we done it?
Did it take us a long time to doit?
Are we still not really good atdoing it?
And so I guess I just wanted tokind of talk to you, Tori, about
the value of saying no.
I feel like so often in thisindustry, and especially if
you're a woman in this industry,where opportunities were fewer
and farther between, Everyonetold me throughout my early
(04:49):
years, say yes to everything.
And I took that to heart and Idid.
And I worked overtime in myfirst job making$12 an hour.
Shout out Madison, Wisconsin,local news, local TV sports.
UNKNOWN (05:01):
Woo.
SPEAKER_00 (05:02):
What a ride.
But I said yes to everything.
And since then, like, I mean, myschedule changed.
mostly when I was at MLB Networkand NHL Network, it was
literally all over the placebecause sports happen every
single day, right?
So I didn't have a Mondaythrough Friday, hardly ever.
Like more often than not, Iwould have a Tuesday, Wednesday
(05:24):
off, or I'd have like a Tuesday,Saturday off that work week.
And it was crazy before I hadkids.
And then once I had kids, it goteven crazier, right?
And so I didn't say no for along time because I just felt
like that team player mentalitywhere I was like, I am going to
do what's best for the good ofthe team, the good of the
(05:45):
company.
And sure, if someone needs aswap last minute, or if they
need me to work a double shift,of course, yes, I'll make it
work at all costs.
And those costs ended up gettinghigher and higher once you have
kids, right?
It ends up being a big stressorin your marriage, frankly.
And especially, my husband worksa normal job, so it was always
(06:07):
him who had to read rearrangehis schedule because I was
saying yes to every tweak andchange that my schedule threw at
us.
So that's kind of my experiencebefore we get into like how we
change our mindset around that.
I want to hear your experience,Tor, about the pressures of
saying yes.
SPEAKER_01 (06:29):
A thousand percent.
And I think anyone who hasstarted young in the sports
industry, sports media industry,can say that there is this
feeling of you're replaceable,right?
So if it's not doing it for thebetter of the team, it's doing
it because if you say no, if youdon't seem like you're willing
(06:51):
to do whatever it takes to makea show better, to make a small
segment in the show better, tojust be there, to run the
teleprompter at the craziesthours of the day, if you're not
willing to do that, then don'tworry.
Someone is waiting at our frontdoor to take your job.
And of course, that was never,it's never literally said to
you, but back when we started, Iwould say Yes.
(07:12):
Yes.
(07:34):
Yeah.
So like I didn't, it was alreadyhard enough to get my foot in
the door.
I didn't, I didn't want to messanything up.
So yes, you need me to be in at3am, you know, fine.
You're also 22 years old, 23years old, and you're starting
with people who are also thesame age.
So we're all in it together.
It was like college extended.
So yeah, for whatever thatreason is that it stays with
(07:57):
you, it's very deep.
SPEAKER_00 (07:58):
I would say it took me a long time to feel
comfortable saying no.
And by a within the last year ortwo, right?
I only recently realized if Idon't show up, someone else will
do that and it will be okay.
And I might miss something, butthere's always going to be that
(08:19):
next thing, right?
There's always going to be thatnext assignment.
The world keeps turning even ifI'm not there hosting that show
or reporting on this assignment.
And that, I will say, Thecraziest part, and now I love
telling young people especiallythis, the craziest thing that I
have learned is that as I say nomore...
(08:42):
It's like a weird phenomenon andI'm not saying it's going to
happen to everyone every time.
But for me, I have found when Isay no, oftentimes that will
lead to that person, thatcompany, that network asking for
another opportunity.
Okay, so you can't do this.
What about this?
And that has been like mindblowing.
Like I can say no and they stillare going to want me even if
(09:05):
they have to work around myschedule a little bit.
Like that has been soempowering.
And again, I understand ifyou're young and you're just
starting out, that may not bethere.
That privilege might not bethere.
But I would encourage anyone whofeels a little more established
in their industry, in theirrole, to say no every now and
(09:26):
then for legit reasons.
Your family is a legitimatereason.
Your spouse not being able towork around their schedule,
that's a legit reason for you tobe able to say no.
No, I need to be home with mykids that day.
Or no, this is my son'sgraduation or something like
that.
That's a legit reason.
And when you start saying no,you might actually find that
(09:49):
people are going to understandthat and they will still
accommodate, even if you feellike it's scary to say no.
SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
that is such good advice.
And it's almost like, wishsomebody had told me that, you
know?
Um, so because it is, it's true.
It's just, it's an unspokenthing.
It it's there.
Um, so when it, when it 10 yearsago, Jamie would have liked to
hear that.
So that's, that's what we'retrying to say.
Um, if anyone's out there thatis feeling pressure, feeling
overworked, um, it's a, it's a,it is okay to say that.
(10:19):
Um, did you ever feel too, like,I don't know, sometimes in our
industry there, there's a boysclub, you know, just not going
to beat around it like it justis like it it's been male
dominated for a long time umwe're finally starting to shift
the curve a little bit butsometimes i feel it's a badge of
(10:40):
honor when people talk about allthe stuff that they've missed
for their job have you evernoticed that when it's like oh
yeah no i had to travel for 48hours straight to get this
interview done but i got it doneand it's like okay cool that's
great if you feel that way ijust it adds the pressure a
little bit in my mind to be likedo i have to do that like yeah i
don't want No,
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
it's not a badge of honor.
Yeah.
I mean, there are so many wayswe could take this conversation.
Cause I definitely feel thatwhere it's like people want to
sound impressive by being busieror missing more or doing more.
And sometimes there's real valuein doing less.
And that by that, I mean lesswork.
(11:20):
Like I, we made a very consciousdecision to move our family to
Las Vegas from the New York cityarea.
area where we had been foralmost a decade because not for
a job but for family because Irealized that at some point like
I wanted my life to look acertain way and feel a certain
(11:41):
way and while my whole lifethroughout forever as long as I
can remember it's been careerdriven it's been career oriented
what's going to be best for mycareer what makes sense in terms
of a next step at some point Irealized I care more about what
my life looks like and my lifeis a lot bigger than just my
job.
Was there ever a work assignmenttour that you had to say no to?
(12:03):
All the time.
SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
Yeah.
All the time.
And I just became okay with itin the last two years.
I would beat myself up about it.
I remember I had just hadBraxton.
I had just come back to work.
He was maybe six months old,maybe seven, eight months.
And we just brought a nanny into start working with us.
And I got a call like, hey, wehave a Josh Allen sit down
(12:26):
tomorrow.
I need you to be in BuffaloMm-hmm.
(12:59):
it is funny how things work outbecause that's what my job
turned into for like two, threeyears.
But I just, I just want to likeshake that girl and be like,
Tori, like you cannot go toBuffalo tomorrow.
You just had a baby.
It's really hard.
And it's, I don't know why thatthis is like the first time that
I think the industry, sometimesit feels like it's the first
(13:19):
time they've ever had to hearthat, you know?
Yeah.
And it's just like, but thatdoesn't make sense.
It doesn't.
And I'm glad that I'm still theperson that they want to be
there for a big interview.
like that.
Sometimes it's okay.
And you know what?
I still got even cooleropportunities after that.
SPEAKER_00 (13:33):
Exactly.
Yeah.
There's always another game.
There's always anotherassignment.
I mean, I have a coupleexamples, but most recently, I
remember being at the NWSLheadquarters where we all call
play-by-play and they bringeveryone in and we call all the
games remotely.
So it's kind of cool because youhave a little bit of camaraderie
(13:53):
with everyone.
But I was talking to a fewpeople and I was saying, I'm new
here and I feel bad because theyasked me to do a couple games in
September, but I can't do them.
So I'm going to have to say no.
How does that work?
And they all looked at me like,well, most people are trying to
get more games.
You don't give up your games.
And I sat there like, but I haveto.
(14:15):
And I did.
And what's great is my boss andscheduler was so, so cool about
it.
She was like, no, of course.
Totally.
We'll figure it out.
We've got other people who cando it.
And I felt good.
but I was like this is just youknow this is kind of
non-negotiable for me.
I have to be able to feel like Ican put my family first.
(14:37):
And if I had something thatweekend or travel plans or a big
event or something, you have tobe able to say no and it will be
okay.
And guess what?
I still am going there.
They didn't fire me or let mego.
I just didn't work those twoweekends or whatever.
And it was okay.
And then I think the otherbiggest example that I can think
(14:58):
of is the Stanley Cup final.
That is definitely Anytime I gotto cover a Stanley Cup final, I
was just in awe of how cool thatis.
You know, I think it's thehardest trophy to win in sports
and it's a grind of two monthsof playoffs every single day.
Like it's crazy.
And so you see the emotion likepouring out of these players and
(15:20):
coaches when they finally hoistthe Stanley Cup and you
understand the magnitude of whatthat trophy really means.
And so to be able to coversomething like that.
And it's
SPEAKER_01 (15:27):
the end of the season for you too.
You've been covering the wholeseason.
So it's like everyone is in thistogether, finishing it together.
It's so rewarding.
SPEAKER_00 (15:34):
Yeah.
So it's, yeah, it's, it'sreally, really awesome to get to
cover assignments like that.
But, um, I got pregnant and hada baby at the end of April.
And so there was no doubt in mymind, like I'm not going to the
Stanley cup final in mid June.
And so, yes, I missed thatStanley cup final.
(15:54):
That was the epic seven gameback and forth between the
Bruins and the blues.
And I would have loved to bethere, but I wasn't, I was at
home on the couch.
with my six week old baby.
And that was where I wassupposed to be.
And there was another StanleyCup final.
Turns out it would be a fewyears because this thing called
COVID happened and I didn'tcover it again in 2020 or 2021.
(16:17):
But yeah, that's probably 11months when the Stanley Cup
would have been going on.
And same thing.
I wanted to go really badly, butI was like, okay, the Stanley
Cup final for anyone who doesn'tknow hockey super well, it is
the best of seven.
And there's all these extraextra days off for travel and
practice and everything.
And it can take up to 20 days tocomplete.
(16:39):
So skip ahead to like 2022.
And that would have been myfirst chance to be back full
coverage Stanley Cup final.
And I just felt like I couldn'tbe gone that long.
Like for anyone who doesn't knowthat much about hockey, like
it's two and a half weeks if itgoes seven games.
That's a long time.
It could be up to 20 days,actually.
It's almost three weeks.
(17:00):
And I just felt like that wasnot a thing I could actually do.
ask my kids and husband to do isto have me be gone for that
amount of time.
So I agreed to do half of it.
But what ended up happening wasI missed the cup clinching game
because I only did half of it.
And that was really a tough pillto swallow.
So that's an example ofsomething that, you know, if I
weren't a mom, there was noquestion I would have been there
(17:21):
through all seven games.
If it went seven, didn't matter.
But when you're a mom, you havethese dueling interests and your
heart is in multiple places atonce.
And, um, it's just the, TheCrossy Bear.
SPEAKER_01 (17:36):
I see that as a blessing that we get to have
these, these passions pulling usin these directions, right?
Like it just makes you morewhole person.
So that's how we got it.
And good for you.
Good for you for, you know what?
It took us, it took us way toolong, but we had to, we had no
other way.
Like, I just think we're so usedto putting our careers first in
hard work, hard work, hard work.
(17:56):
Yeah.
That when you suddenly can'tmake that your priority, you
have to adjust.
So we have to forgive ourselvesa little bit, you know, and then
it's okay that we, we had totake some time to yeah like let
it go like yeah just it's okayso we got there yeah no matter
SPEAKER_00 (18:13):
yeah and just kind of to to end this part of our
conversation like i i feel likethe whole idea of saying no to
work is a big deal when you takea step back and look at life in
general right like someone toldme once no one ever looks at a
tombstone and it says hardestworker best employee like never
like this is morbid right butlike if you think about it like
(18:35):
when We are on our deathbed.
SPEAKER_01 (19:05):
of similar feelings, let us know, hit us up.
We finally have our Instagram,babes in sports podcast at Jamie
Hirsch at T's a wacky.
Let us know what you'rethinking.
Let us know if you've beenthrough this times where you had
to say no and had a hard time.
We're here.
Mance Blaine moment of the week.
I'm going to go this timebecause this one has stuck with
(19:27):
me for a long time, Jame, and Iwould love to hear your thoughts
on it.
But I had the opportunity tointerview Dr.
James Andrews for a story acouple of years back.
For those who might not know,Dr.
Andrews is the orthopedicsurgeon to the stars.
He's operated on Michael Jordan,Tom Brady.
The list goes on.
He's just the guy you'd call ifyou're a pro athlete.
I was there to talk to him abouthis work on Drew Brees, who tore
(19:50):
his shoulder labrum back in2005.
So the story.
I had pitched and was coveringwas how Drew had written thank
you notes to everyone who hadimpacted him his entire career,
like personal handwritten notes.
And Dr.
James Andrews received thepersonalized letter,
personalized signed footballwith his name on it, like really
nice, like says a lot about DrewBrees, pretty cool story.
(20:13):
He operated on Drew's shoulder.
He essentially saved his careerby doing that.
So during the interview, the wayI had phrased one of the
questions included like, oh, thegame that Drew got hurt, you
know, that ended up being hislast game for the San Diego
Chargers.
Someone in the room interruptsme, like wasn't live, you know,
(20:35):
but we started the interview.
We were recording and he goes,the saints.
Do you mean, you mean thesaints?
And you can see it on thetranscript.
You see it.
I've like, it's hilarious.
Cause I go, no, no, no.
He was the chargers.
He was, he was playing for thechargers.
That was the last game with thecharger.
And that guy showed up realquick.
Wow.
(20:55):
I cannot.
I don't know.
You know, I know I'm there for areason.
You're not
SPEAKER_00 (21:01):
just a pretty face, Tori.
You know what I mean?
Oh, my gosh.
No, that is so maddening and sodisrespectful.
Even if that person was thinkingit, to say that, to blurt that
out mid-interview that you areconducting, that is
unconscionable.
UNKNOWN (21:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (21:21):
Right.
If I just messed up my whole,
SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
like, you know, when you're in the rhythm.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:25):
Yeah.
I mean, if our listeners couldsee
SPEAKER_01 (21:27):
Dr.
Andrews though, so
SPEAKER_00 (21:29):
I'm sure you did.
Wow.
I
SPEAKER_01 (21:31):
appreciate you.
SPEAKER_00 (21:33):
Yeah.
That is incredible.
Yeah.
You knew your stuff.
This is the, this is the pointthat women work our asses off to
make sure we know our stuffbecause we want to be credible
because credibility is so hard.
Yeah.
And so easy to lose as a womanin sports.
So, Wow.
I mean, props to you forcontinuing on being the pro that
(21:56):
you are.
Thank you.
That would make me literallystop and be like, excuse me.
Man, that makes my blood
SPEAKER_01 (22:02):
boil.
I think I was just so shockedthat I was like, like,
SPEAKER_00 (22:06):
God.
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (22:07):
But hey, keep up.
Keep giving your mansplainmoments because they're so
cringe.
And we love just hearing all theother ones because it makes us
feel a lot better.
We got one more thing.
I lied.
We got one more thing.
if anyone wants to join us inthis ridiculousness.
SPEAKER_00 (22:23):
Yes.
Okay.
So Tori recently celebrated amilestone birthday.
We went to Napa.
We'll get into it later becauseit was epic.
We've been
SPEAKER_01 (22:31):
to Napa.
SPEAKER_00 (22:32):
Epic trip, Napa Valley, heaven on earth.
Could not recommend enough.
But as most Napa trips involvenot, Tori thought that we should
do a three minute plank tooffset all of the wine and all
of the food that we were having.
So we actually did it.
And there were only three of us,the whole group.
There were eight of us and onlythree of us.
(22:53):
It was four of us.
SPEAKER_01 (22:54):
It was
SPEAKER_00 (22:54):
four of us.
SPEAKER_01 (22:55):
Okay, four of us.
So half the group.
And I had gave everyone a headsup.
We had been training.
We had been practicing for thismoment.
SPEAKER_00 (23:01):
And I just want to say that.
I did not practice, which is whyit was brutal.
Wait, what?
No, I didn't practice plankingbefore that.
I don't like planking.
That's not my jam.
I'm such a loser.
No, I'm proud of you.
I'm good.
And that's why your form wasbetter than mine.
Anyway, we decided to do a threeminute plank and we did it.
We cried.
We did it.
SPEAKER_01 (23:51):
You're at a minute 30.
Thanks buddy.
Thanks buddy.
So he kept us going, but yeah,shout out to Jamie, shout out to
myself, shout out to Alan.
We for making the three minutechallenge.
So let's do it.
Why not?
SPEAKER_00 (24:03):
Let's do it.
Everyone.
Yes.
Everyone.
That is your challenge.
Jamie, take us home, babe.
Mamas or not.
Doesn't matter.
Do the three minute plank andlet us know how it goes for you.
We will reconvene.
We're going to try to drop anepisode every Tuesday, so be
sure to check it out.
Put your notifications on,subscribe wherever you get your
local podcast.
And check us out on YouTubeeventually.
(24:23):
And yes, thanks again forwatching and listening to Babes
in Sports.
I'm Jamie Hirsch.
She's Tori Z.
Roy.
And we will see you next time.
Thanks, guys.
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