August 19, 2025 • 45 mins
From calling Aaron Copland on a whim to commissioning works for James Earl Jones, Philip Brunelle’s career is marked by bold ideas, fearless curiosity, and a lifelong commitment to music. Bach Talk Host Ron Klemm and Bach Society's Music Director and Conductor A. Dennis Sparger sit down with the legendary founder of VocalEssence; one of the world's premier choral organizations based in Minneapolis, MN. A member of the Minnesota Music Hall of Fame, Philip shares stories from six decades on the podium, his belief in trust between singers and leaders, and how curiosity continues to drive his work today. View the Bach Talk Show Notes here. Learn more about The Bach Society of Saint Louis at bachsociety.org. Bach Talk is a Registered trademark of The Bach Society of Saint Louis.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
This is Bach Talk.
Trust.
It's the same as, youknow, as Dennis knows.
Sure.
With choirs.
Sure.
Yes.
You know, learning what you'regonna do, that you trust your
(00:21):
singers and they trust you.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
I mean, one of the things whenI started VocalEssence, I had no
idea how do you create a board?
How do you raise money?
I didn't know any of making that happen.
Mm-hmm.
But I figured it out.
We make it.
Yeah, we make it work.
But it's not by hoping it will happen.
You have to work hard to make ithappen, and you have to know that
(00:43):
people believe in what you're doing.
(01:06):
To me, it was all about whatwe will do is top quality.
That everybody will come to a concertmany times not knowing the repertoire
we're going to do, and they'll go,well, we don't know what we're going to
hear, but we know it will be well done.
And that's the most important thing.
(01:41):
That's the voice of PhilipBrunellee, along with the ensemble
singers of the former PlymouthMusic Series of Minneapolis.
We know them now as VocalEssence moreabout Philip in a moment you are hearing
an arrangement of an old Stephen Fosterfolk song by William Grant Still.
(02:01):
It's from an early recording in a seriescalled Simply Witness, part of an Ongoing
Commitment by Philip and VocalEssence tothe music of African American composers.
But that barely scratches thesurface of all that they do.
(02:22):
Hello and welcome to Bach Talk.
I'm Ron Klemm.
This past June, we shared alive episode of Bach Talk.
That is to say an episode that tookplace in front of a live audience
as part of the 2025 Chorus AmericaConference here in St. Louis.
As you may recall, internationallyacclaimed conductor Leonard Slatkin was
(02:44):
our special guest, and if you missedit be sure to go back and listen.
During that conference, over the spanof several days, we at The Bach Society
of Saint Louis had the wonderful andunique opportunity to talk to over a
dozen prominent figures in the fieldof choral music in the coming months.
(03:04):
We hope to share some of thoseconversations with you beginning today.
Perhaps the grand patriarch at theconference rivaled only by our own
music director and conductor DennisSparger was Philip Brunelle, a member
of the Minnesota Music Hall of Fame.
Philip is one of the most highlyrespected conductors in America.
(03:27):
He has worked tirelessly for wellover six decades, sharing the
joy of exploring and experiencingmusic of every style imaginable.
It was a joy too for Dennis and Ito sit down with Philip in the lobby
of the Hyatt Regency at the Archhere in St. Louis during the Chorus
America Conference a few weeks ago.
(03:49):
And as you're about tohear, his reputation as a
visionary is well deserved.
It is an honor to havePhilip Brunelle with us.
Uh, I'm alongside DennisSparger, music Director of the
Bach Society of Saint Louis.
And is there even astronger word than honor.
An amazing, uh, gentleman with a, a, atremendous, uh, pedigree and all of that.
(04:13):
But let's talk PhilipBrunelle about your life.
You, you are now stillconducting the, uh, group called
VocalEssence up in Minneapolis,and you began that group when?
56 years ago.
I began VocalEssence.
I knew that the Twin Cities ofMinneapolis, St. Paul, they didn't
have any choral organization beyondthe groups that did the traditional
(04:39):
pieces, and that was great.
But who was gonna do all thisother music that was out there?
So I, which is typical of me, pickedup the phone because my motto is,
you don't know if you don't ask.
So I picked up the phone and calledthis guy named Aaron Copeland and
said, Mr. Copeland, would you come toMinneapolis and conduct your choral music?
(05:02):
And he said, young man.
No one has ever asked me to do that.
Tell me the date I'll be there.
That is a story.
I read that, and that shocked methat no one asked him to do because
his choral music is wonderful.
It's wonderful.
Yeah, yeah,
yeah.
And so we had a, and so webecame lifelong friends.
We later recorded his opera, The TenderLand, which won awards and I mean.
(05:27):
Yeah, no, Aaron was adelightful, wonderful man.
So it was the same thing, youknow, some years later I needed a
narrator for a piece that I wanted tocommission for narrator and orchestra.
And I thought, whose voice do I want?
And I thought, you know, I think JamesEarl Jones would be the right voice.
(05:49):
Um.
Hmm.
I better call.
So, because what's he gonnasay, yes or no, right?
Well, and I got his number andI called him and I said, I would
like to commission a piece fornarrator and orchestra for you.
And he went "for me?
No one's ever commissioned apiece for me." And he said, "I'm
(06:13):
honored and of course I'll doit." And we went from there.
We became dear friends.
Yeah.
How terrific.
We'll just do it.
I'll hand you my number whenwe're done, and if you need
a narrator, you just call me.
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
Ron.
But I, let's start with Aaron Copeland.
What, describe him in a few words.
What was, what was he like?
(06:34):
He was so friendly.
He was so, um, I mean, so easy to be with.
He, he would get in front of the choir andsay, you know, I'm not really a conductor.
Um, but you know, I love whatI've composed and I hope we
(06:54):
can do some music together.
I mean, it was very wonderful,humble, very lovely man.
All the way.
He was great and uh, and hewasn't a good conductor, you know?
But I will tell you,he knew what he wanted.
Mm-hmm.
Well, that's right.
Yes.
And he would describe, and so you'd besinging, I remember we were singing At
(07:16):
the River, and we sang what was on thepage and he went, no, I know that's
what's on the page, but that's notquite what I really wanted it to be.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So let's kind of work.
And so each piece we would kind ofwork through what it was that he was
looking for, and uh, he was, yeah,he was absolutely a gem to work with
(07:40):
and the choir, of course, loved him.
Oh, that's terrific.
And they were poured, theyjust poured themselves out for
him because of what he did.
Sure.
Yeah.
Great.
Yeah.
You, you really, uh, touched onsomething that's a whole other
episode of this podcast, and thatis lifting the music off the page.
Mm-hmm.
Isn't that what our job is?
It is.
(08:01):
And, and how, how do you approach that?
What's, what's the key?
Well, first of all, every pieceand every composer is different.
Yeah.
It's not gonna be thesame thing with each one.
Mm-hmm.
And you have to kind of like.
What is the pieces feeling?
What was the composer tryingto do with this piece?
(08:25):
How can we achieve that idea?
Uh, because indeed rhythmsare just an approximation.
Yes.
Of what the composer was looking for.
Yes.
It may show dotted eighth, 16th,dt, dt, dt, but you know, that
may not be quite what they wanted.
(08:46):
Mm-hmm.
Maybe they wanted it to betriplets and they, you know,
who knows who, but the fact is.
Each piece rhythmically and just interms of its spirit and its phrasing,
you have to take them individually
Sure.
And try to make them your own.
Mm-hmm.
Because you need to be ableto share that with the chorus.
(09:07):
Mm-hmm.
I find so often that people who workin the choral music industry have their
roots in the church and in church music.
What's it been for you?
Well, let's put it this way, if yourfather was a minister, it started
(09:28):
with you as a "PK" Preacher's kid.
So it started, it startedwith me as a boy soprano.
And my calling card was a song calledThe Holy City, which I sang forever
as a boy soprano, won contests,singing that and did it all.
(09:50):
Oh no.
Nursing homes, churches, conventions.
Oh, we want little Philip tocome and sing the Holy City.
Yes, which I did.
Oh yes.
And then years later, when Imentioned this to a friend.
She dug in the Minnesota radiostation, WCCO in their archives,
(10:13):
found the recording of where Ihad won this contest singing.
And so now she put it out there thatpeople could hear little Philip Brunelle,
age eight singing the Holy City.
So, yeah.
It's there.
Did you bring a copy ofthat along with you today?
You know, I didn't.
Oh, I didn't, but you know,Dennis, you can find it.
(10:36):
We can find it.
If you really want it.
Yeah.
And he could accompany you on theaccordion too, if you really would.
I had a similar background, butmy, my training was to accompany
my mother who did the singing.
Ah, okay.
Well, my mother was myaccompanist, so oh, yes.
Yeah, absolutely.
But you also, uh, early on, uh,became an organist, uh, and,
(10:56):
and, and an instrumentalist.
Tell us a little bit aboutyour instrumental background.
Well, I started with, I started, uh, Ididn't start piano lessons till I was four
Uhhuh.
Oh, wow.
That's a, that's, that'sa little old, isn't it?
I kind of waited.
Yeah.
Right.
So I did that.
But then our family knew this friendwho was, uh, a missionary in Ecuador.
(11:18):
And he would come up occasionallyand he played the marimba.
And I thought, oh, I shouldlearn to play the marimba.
So I did.
And uh, so I did, but then I was told,oh, you should learn to play the organ.
So I was 12 when I startedlessons on the organ.
And so I just, you know,sort of kept all that going.
Um, plus just loving everythingabout singing and uh, um, early on
(11:46):
had this fascination with Handel.
So I thought, well, you know, there'sgotta be more things than just Messiah.
And so I started looking at all ofhis oratorios and was fascinated.
So when I started VocalEssence, webegan by doing a Handel Oratorio
every year, but we never did Messiah.
(12:08):
Because everybody else was doing that.
So we did all, we did all theseothers, and it was amazing.
And I also realized that they werekind of lengthy and audiences were
saying, couldn't you make cuts?
And so I went, oh.
And then I found outthat Handel made cuts.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And didn't do the whole thing.
So I realized I didn't haveto do three hour oratorios.
(12:32):
I could do one and a halfor two hour oratorios.
And start, and it was like, oh,you learn programming lessons.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
The key there of course is notto, uh, mess up the story too bad.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
But there's always in those, a lotof arias that are just simply, uh,
adding an emotion to the moment.
(12:53):
Sure.
Yeah.
How does VocalEssence, the group thatyou're, uh, in charge of these days.
How does it?
You mean that I founded.
That you, that you founded?
Didn't we talk about that?
Yes.
Okay.
Talk about the founding of VocalEssence.
Alright, there you go.
Well, I was appointed the organistdirector at Plymouth Congregational
(13:13):
Church in Minneapolis and when thathappened I got thinking about, 'cause
I've lived in the Twin Cities foreverand I got thinking about, you know, there
should be a choral group in town thatwould focus on music besides the 10 or
12 war horses which people were doing.
(13:34):
And so that got me thinking about it.
I went to the minister at the churchand said, do you think outside of the
church we could start a choral series?
And he was wonderful andsaid, do what you need to do.
And so many of the church choirparticipated, but also people in
the community got involved in this.
(13:57):
It started as a, um, a, a volunteerorganization and then over the years
it created, um, more parts to it.
I now, uh, here we are 56 years later.
Uh, we started a professionalchorus of 32 singers.
(14:17):
Uh, and then 10 years ago I thoughtwe needed to start a youth choir
that looked like the Twin Cities,not just a youth choir, but I didn't
want it to be quotas and so I havea wonderful associate conductor.
Uh, and so he took the idea and wentinto every high school in the Twin Cities
(14:43):
and said to the kids, now if you'llcome and talk to me about being in a new
choir, uh, I'll give you a water bottle.
So he gave away about400 water bottles and
Incentives are everything,
I guess it was.
Yeah.
You know, and he also said to them,I, you know, the audition was to take
(15:03):
their phone and sing something to him.
Aha.
And that was the audition.
Mm-hmm.
Anyway, we have this group.
It's, as I said, not about quotas.
It's about can you, uh, are youinterested in being in a choir?
And so if you looked at this group nowof 40 singers, and of course obviously
they're high schools, so it changes everyyear, but if you looked at it, you'd go.
(15:26):
Oh, that looks like the Twin Cities.
It sort of represents everybody.
It's a mixture of all ofthose groups come together.
And obviously after the first year,those folks tell their friends.
Yep, yep.
Sure.
And then their friends.
And so you get this whole group.
And then the fourth group that westarted about, uh, maybe, let's
(15:48):
see, it's been 10 years now.
Uh, I wanted to do somethingamong the retirement homes in the
Twin Cities to get older peoplesinging and continuing to sing.
And I thought, well, you don'twanna call them old people's choirs.
So we've now called them Vintage Voices.
(16:08):
I love it.
Perfect.
Yeah.
They love it.
Yeah.
And so we are in three different, uh,places in the Twin Cities where people
can come and they do concerts andsing, and it's been absolutely great.
So we have Vintage Voices.
The, the youth choir, we asked themto create their name the first year
(16:28):
and they decided to take the lastfour letters of Minnesota SOTA.
Yeah.
And call themselves "Singers of This Age."
How about that?
And so we,
that's a creative bunch.
So we have SOTA.
Yeah, they're great.
And so that, and then we have the ensemblesingers, which is the professional group.
(16:50):
And then we have a chorus,a volunteer chorus of 120.
Wow.
Wow.
And then with the 120, you do big things.
With orchestra?
Some with orchestra, some acapella.
But you know, it could be, it could beacapella, things that they needed to do.
And each year, maybe a differenttheme and we work together.
Yeah.
And do you find spaces for120 voices to perform in?
(17:13):
Yeah.
Well we do.
We find, we find some, uh, either inschools or churches find for them to work.
It's been great.
(17:50):
From their 50th anniversary concertin 2018, the VocalEssence Ensemble
singers led by Philip Brunellewith just the final portion of, in
the beginning by Aaron Copeland.
More of our conversation with PhilipBrunelle at the 2025 Conference of
Chorus America in just a moment with BachSociety Music Director Dennis Sparger.
(18:15):
I'm Ron Klemm, and this is Bach Talk.
I wanna talk a little bit about yourwork in opera, because you've spent
some time with the Minnesota Operafor actually some length of time.
Do you still work with theMinnesota Opera at all?
No, I worked with them for 17 years.
(18:35):
Right.
I mean, when I was at theUniversity of Minnesota, I was
a, a piano and percussion major.
And my second year at the university,I was asked to come and play a
concert with Minnesota Orchestra.
So I did, and the third year Iwas there, they said, we want
(19:00):
you to become a full-time member.
So then it was, okay, I need to keepgoing to school, but I need to be in
the orchestra full time, which I did.
So I played in theorchestra for five years.
Starting when you were how old?
20.
Wow.
Yeah.
20.
Sounds like twentyish.
Yeah, it was 20.
(19:20):
yeah.
Did that.
And then, um, after five years, uh, onesummer I had this wonderful opportunity.
I got a call, would I come fora opera training program at the
Metropolitan Opera, and, uh,I thought this would be great.
So I did.
It was going through tons of operas,uh, with George Schick, who was
(19:45):
the number two conductor at The Metand, uh, Schick, he was a great guy.
And so I did that.
I came back and Minnesota Operacalled and said, we'd like you
to become the music director.
So this was in the early days,starting VocalEssence, and I was
at the church, but I said yes.
(20:07):
So for 17 years, I was the musicdirector at Minnesota Opera, and then
as VocalEssence just got bigger andbigger, I realized I couldn't do this.
So then I just quit the operaand I've been back twice to
conduct something for them.
But, uh, yep, that, and I'vedone guest conducting of operas.
(20:28):
I've done some in Sweden, did one inSouth Africa, other places in the USA.
So, so I've kept that part of it.
And obviously also at VocalEssence,we've occasionally done, uh, concert
versions of operas that I, if, if,if they had a major choral part.
(20:50):
It wasn't gonna be an operajust to show some solos.
Yeah, no, no, I understand.
But if it had a wonderful choralpart, Ooh, why don't we do that?
There you go.
You know, and we did, yeah.
Uh, touring.
It appears that the VocalEssence has donea little bit of touring around the world.
At least you hinted at that.
Tell us about that.
Well, the next one coming up.
(21:11):
Uh, the ensemble singers, the 32.
Yeah.
Will be in England.
The last week of July.
They've been invited to singat The Three Choirs Festival,
which is like the big deal.
Yes, it is.
In England.
Mm-hmm.
And we are the third Americanchoir in their history.
(21:33):
Really?
To, in, to be invited.
So we will do a concert there.
We will do an even songat Westminster Abbey.
We will do a concert in the Abbeyat Bath and we will do a broadcast,
uh, a video broadcast, uh, ofChristmas music for the BBC.
(21:55):
Oh, wonderful.
Yeah.
Wonderful trip.
Yep.
Yeah, so they will be, it willbe great to have these things.
I've also arranged for, you know, likea lunch one day for them to have lunch
with John Rutter and then anotherlunch with uh, Bob Chilcott and uh, you
know, so there's been some nice littlethings that will happen around the way.
(22:17):
Touring though, can't be thefirst focus of the, of the group?
No.
No.
It's about building thisaudience as you, as you said.
And uh,
It is.
Except, you know, when you get a call fromthree choirs, you go, maybe we could come.
Maybe we could come,
figure out a way.
Maybe we can work this out.
Yep.
Figure out a way.
But, also your home audience loves thefact that there are people interested
(22:40):
in hearing you in another country.
Somewhere else, yes.
They think, oh, that's kindof wonderful to have happen.
Mm-hmm.
We've also, several times touredto Mexico and done programs down
in Mexico City, uh, and in thatarea and a couple of times to Asia.
We were with the World Choral Symposiumover there in Korea and sang, and
(23:05):
another trip was in China and Japan.
Wow.
So, yeah.
So there's been, you know, things there.
So yeah.
The problem with all those,of course it's called expense.
Well, it's very expensive.
Yes.
Do what, what repertoire do youtake to, uh to, to represent, uh,
(23:26):
the Midwest to, uh, other lands.
What, what do you look to do with that?
Depending on the event or the country?
Mostly I take American music.
Mm-hmm.
Um, when you go to Europe, the onlycomposers they've ever heard of,
unfortunately are Bernstein and Copeland.
(23:48):
And so, you know, and I go,that's fine and we can do that.
Mm-hmm.
But we've got lots of other composers.
Uh, and the same thing would betrue when we have gone to Asia.
Mm-hmm.
And, but they love to know that wecould do arrangements of spirituals
For sure.
Spirituals.
I was gonna ask about that.
Oh yes.
(24:08):
They want, but they also areinterested if you can do folk songs.
I mean, the only folk song Ithink they know is Shenandoah.
You know, and I'm going like,it's beautiful, but you know what?
We have others, you know?
So, you know, there's you, it'skind of a feeling of broadening.
What is out there in terms ofrepertoire and what you can do.
(24:30):
But basically I would try to doAmerican music always, including
some Minnesota composers.
Because we have a number of them,whether it's Dominick Argento or
Libby Larsen or Stephen Paulus.
I mean, there's a number ofthem that you know we could do.
So I've always included some of that.
(25:23):
Once again, we are hearing theVocalEssence ensemble singers
in concert led by their founderand conductor, Philip Brunelle.
This is "The Day is Done" byMinnesota composer, Stephen Paulus.
Let's listen to just a little more.
(26:39):
More from Philip Brunelle injust a moment, including his
thoughts on the long-running radioshow, A Prairie Home Companion.
Our conversation took place at the2025 Conference of Chorus America in
St. Louis, along with Bach SocietyMusic Director Dennis Sparger.
I am Ron Klemm, and this is Bach Talk.
(27:05):
I wanna know about Garrison Keillor.
Okay.
Talk to me about this guy and you.
Now let's, let's set the record straight.
He was on the air for a long,long time, but you led a choir
for his very first broadcast.
Am I right?
I was on the first broadcast.
(27:27):
Oh, okay.
But there wasn't a choir on the broadcast.
Oh, okay.
He had called me, he was atthe university as a student.
I didn't know him and he didn't know me.
Mm-hmm.
But he called and said, um,say I'm gonna start this radio
broadcast and I need somebody whoknows classical music and hymns.
(27:50):
And I said, yeah, that's me.
And he said, do you really know hymns?
And I said, Garrison, every hymn, youknow, I know the question will be, who
knows more verses and the answer is me.
Which was true, was true.
Of course it was true.
Anyway, so he invi, he askedme to come on the show.
(28:13):
So I was on the first show.
It was, you know, a veryintimatelittle thing of a couple people.
We did the show and I stayed aroundfor a couple of months doing it, and I
then realized I just didn't have time.
Because it was going to evolve and Icould see that he needed in a hurry.
(28:34):
Yeah.
In a big hurry.
And I couldn't do that.
So then I said, you know, Garrison, whydon't you invite my friend Butch Thompson?
Mm-hmm.
To come on and he could be your musicguy, because Butch was fantastic.
Yeah.
And, and, and, and he did, and Butchbecame the next guy on the show.
Then some years later, hestarted thinking about having a
(28:58):
chorus come on and he called me
Yeah, once in a while.
Yeah.
And then we, we would go on likeonce a month or once every six weeks.
And the secret with Garrison was, I mean,he'd, you could either bring some ideas of
repertoire that you could propose, uh, hedidn't want it too high faluten, you know?
(29:22):
No.
Yeah.
But that's okay.
We, we did, but, but heliked classical music.
Oh, yeah.
So it wasn't that.
No, we did, but it was more, uh, also, uh,that he wanted to write lyrics to songs
and then have us perform them, and theywould be hilarious lyrics and all that.
And it would all bedone at the last second.
(29:44):
You never, some of it you mightget a day before, but you know.
And so
The music or the lyrics or both?
Both.
Both.
Oh, for crying out loud, goodness.
Yeah.
But you see, as long as youwere flexible and could do it.
But at the same time, Garrison and I weregood friends and if he handed me something
that I thought we couldn't do well.
(30:06):
Mm-hmm.
I would just say, yeah, Idon't think we can do this.
Let's save it for another time.
And he'd go, okay.
You know, he didn't like, oh, he wasn't,you know, but at the same time, I knew
that if I thought we could do it, thenwe would, at our quick rehearsal, I'd
say, okay, gang, here's what we have.
Let's, let's put it together.
And, and, and they would do it.
(30:27):
Um, but Garrison was very,uh, he had lots of last minute
ideas, which is how he operated.
I would also do a, I didn't do a lot, butI did about, oh, I'd say 10 or 15 programs
with symphony orchestras with him.
Mm-hmm.
And around the country, and you know,that was obviously had to be preset.
(30:50):
Sure.
Mm-hmm.
And so you'd get that and you knewthe music, but even then he would
have written new lyrics to thingsthat showed up at the last moment.
Okay, here we go.
This was, it was typical.
And Garrison and I stay in touch.
I don't.
I haven't talked to him forthe last week, so you know.
Right.
Well
you have his number.
(31:11):
I do.
You can talk.
He calls me.
I call him.
Yeah.
He still is all overthe country performing.
Yeah, he's, but now he's pretty muchdoing it with just, he's there and he
goes with Rich Dworsky as his pianist.
He might bring a singer along,but it's just , you know, but
he loves doing it small and he'sdoing it all over, so it's great.
(31:32):
Well, he, he still has a strong followers.
Oh, my word.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Absolutely.
I mean, you know, Garrisonis, he's now, uh, 83.
I'll tell that you just gavethat up, but that's alright.
No, he'd say it, he'd say it too.
I know he would.
Yeah.
There are two things I just learnedthough in the last two minutes about
Philip Brunelle, and that is one.
(31:55):
You don't mind taking risksbecause that's what you have to do.
Yes.
In life, right?
You got it Sometimes.
Yes.
And the other thing is theimportance of trust, right?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
If you don't have trust withsomebody, it's not gonna work.
No.
Trust was the big and stillis for the, it's the same as,
you know, as Dennis knows.
(32:15):
Sure.
With choirs.
Sure.
Yes.
You know, learning.
How you, what you're gonna do,that you trust your singers and
they trust you and make it work.
And you're a board and your colleagues,
your soloists, your orchestra, all of us.
Makes sense.
Yeah.
I mean, one of the things when I startedVocalEssence, uh, and of course I had
no idea how do you create a board?
(32:36):
How do you raise money?
I didn't know any of making that happen.
Mm-hmm.
But I figured it out.
And so in 56 years, uh, wehave never had a deficit.
Uh.
But it is not by sitting around.
It is by raising money,by talking to people.
And you know, I mean, we have a budgetnow of about two and a half million.
(32:59):
Wow.
And, uh, we make it, yeah.
We make it work.
It's not by.
You are hoping it will happen.
You have to work hard to make ithappen, and you have to know that
people believe in what you're doing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I remember many, many years ago that youchanged the name of the organization.
Did it take a while for that new nameto start sticking with your audience?
(33:21):
It did.
We changed the name because of coursewe were at Plymouth Church, so I
thought, well, Plymouth Music Series.
However, there were twoproblems over the years.
One, one of the big suburbs intown is Plymouth, Minnesota.
Right.
So many people thought our concertswere in Plymouth, Minnesota.
(33:42):
Geographically confusing right there.
Then the other one, when your initialsare Plymouth Music Series, PMS.
Uh huh.
Maybe not.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Maybe someone,
someone caught that.
Yeah, someone caught that.
So the name was terrific when you began.
Yep.
Just.
Just right.
It was right.
But this was 15 years later,we realized we've gotta change.
(34:04):
And then I brought a group of, of,um, advertising folks together.
Let's think about a name.
And we tried a bunch of them.
Of course.
They said, oh, well we can just callit Philip Brunelles Music series.
I said, absolutely not.
Because my goal is I'm gonna do this aslong as I can, but at the time that I
(34:25):
should step down, it's gonna continue.
Mm-hmm.
Therefore, I don't want it named after me.
'cause you'd have tochange the name again.
Yeah.
So then we began, and finallysomebody said, you know, the
essence of what we do is vocal.
Why don't we call it VocalEssence?
And I went, you got it.
And that's how we get the name.
Mm-hmm.
(34:45):
But so is the quality of the organization.
This made it work so well.
Mm-hmm.
No matter what you would've called it.
Exactly.
Exactly.
To me, it was all about that.
What we will do is top quality.
That everybody will come to a concertmany times not knowing the repertoire
we're going to do, and they'll go,well, we don't know what we're going to
(35:07):
hear, but we know it will be well done.
Oh, that's just incredible.
And that's the most importantthing to come there.
So there's a lot ofmusic we do that is not.
Familiar, but people will come andthey go, okay, you know, this is
probably something I should hear.
And here we go, let's see what happens.
There'll be other times that it'llbe something they know, but it's a
(35:28):
real, it's a real kind of interestingmix of putting those together.
Yeah.
And how often does the chorusperform throughout the year?
We do six concerts a year and sothere's, you know, there's an October.
Uh, there's this year comingup, uh, there's the October one.
There's the Decemberwelcome Christmas program.
(35:50):
There's January when JohnRutter is gonna be with us.
Wow.
Our February is our witness concert,which focuses on African American music,
which we've now done for 35 years.
Yes.
And then there will be several moreconcerts in the spring that we will do.
Mm-hmm.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Usually six.
Yeah.
(36:11):
You, you clearly are aforward thinking type of guy.
Yep.
But you've also earnedthe right to reflect.
Mm-hmm.
You've had a lot of time to think aboutall the things that you've accomplished,
and I just wanna reflect, uh, see ifyou'd reflect on a couple of things.
For example, who, who or whatshaped Philip Brunelle most?
(36:34):
Well, certainly I owe a lot tothe encouragement of my mother.
My father, as I mentioned, was aminister, but he died when I was in
eighth grade and left her with five kids.
Wow.
And uh, it was, I didn't know atthe time how poor we were, but
(36:56):
we were below the poverty level.
I found out later, but.
She was, you know, so positivewe're gonna make this work.
There was never, oh, woe is me.
None of that.
We just simply moved on.
And I, one of the stories I rememberhearing later was that when my
(37:18):
father died, my piano teacher, whowas this phenomenal guy in town, uh,
called my mother and said, I knowyou can't afford lessons anymore.
For Philip, but he can't stop, so if youwon't tell him, they will now be free.
And so until I finished highschool, I would get these classes.
(37:42):
I used to wonder, I wonder how shecan afford to do this, you know?
And then after high school, she toldme that Mr. Bergman had said this.
And I've tried when I go out todo workshops with young people.
I say, you know, you won't finda ton of people that are ultra
(38:02):
talented, but you'll find people.
Mm-hmm.
You need to be able tobelieve and help these people.
Yeah.
And some way, whatever that is.
Yes.
And for me, it was my pianoteacher helping me to do that.
But she was, she was avery positive person.
And so when I think aboutdoing things like saying, well.
(38:23):
You don't know if you don't ask.
Yes.
It would be the kind of thingthat my mother would've said to
me as I continued on in life.
I also had a phenomenal high school choraldirector, um, Harry Opal, who was very
well, that we would never have done junk.
(38:45):
We would've done good music.
Right.
And he was very, and he was thereat Mini Haha Academy for 40 years.
And he also, knowing mysituation when I started.
In ninth grade kind of took me under hiswing and kind of steered me, found me the
(39:05):
right organ teacher to take lessons from.
And I was the accompanistalso for the choir.
And he wa he was just a veryimportant figure in my life.
So, you know, a few people like that toguide you can make all the difference.
Certainly.
As we all know in how it works.
I also, at the church, um.
(39:27):
I tried, have tried to encourage,uh, high school kids, you know,
hey, if you wanna on Sunday, bemy page turner at the organ, do.
And I remember one time, oh, this is 20years ago, uh, I had a young kid who was
my page turner and one Sunday he came tome and he said, I suppose you, you don't
(39:53):
want me to be your page turner anymore.
And I said.
Why?
And he said, well, you know, Ijust told my folks that I'm gay.
I said, what is that todo with turning pages?
Not anything, I know.
Yeah.
You know, and he kind ofreally, I said, of course not.
No, you can, you're,you're my page turner.
You know, I mean, it's stuff that,how you , how you you can encourage
(40:17):
people, how you do, you know?
Yes.
Support them.
Support them, and what you do.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
What would you, last question.
Okay.
I promise I, and I thank youso much for your gracious time.
This has been terrific.
What would you like to impart onour young people moving forward?
What is the life lessonthat you wanna pass on?
(40:42):
I would say that I would say to youngpeople who are interested in music.
Um, I want you to be inquisitive.
I want you to just be wonderingwhat's out there, what you know,
what music don't I know that I shouldknow of which there is vast amounts.
(41:06):
I feel the same.
I know lots of music,but I don't know it all.
And so I'm always inquisitive.
How do you become creative at figuringout the music that's available to us?
And what might it be?
Some of it, eh, maybe not.
Throw it away, other music.
(41:28):
Ooh, this is really good.
And I never knew that piece,so I would just encourage young
people to just expand their, uh,their reach of what's out there.
Um, certainly you can find outtitles, but there's so much more that.
You don't know about and youthink, oh, I never knew this piece.
I never knew that piece.
(41:49):
You know, I never heard of that composer.
It's okay, but find out about them.
So I just encourage young peopleto be experimental in terms of
looking at the repertoire that'sout there and what they can do.
Build trust.
Oh, yes,
I heard that.
Yep.
Take risks.
Take risks.
Absolutely.
Oh my word.
(42:09):
And be curious and be, be curious.
Absolutely.
Be curious.
That's the most important.
Yes.
Yep.
Artistic director, VocalEssence,Philip Brunelle with us at the 2025
Conference of Chorus America with BachSociety Music Director Dennis Sparger.
I'm Ron Klemm, and this is Bach Talk.
(42:47):
We're listening to Karin Boye's"Evening Prayer" Set to Music by the
Norwegian composer, Egil Hovland,edited by Philip Brunelle who leads
the VocalEssence ensemble singers.
Do you enjoy hearing
(43:15):
about
other choral
ensembles besides TheBach Society of St. Louis?
Let us know.
Take a moment right now to contactus, just go to Bachsociety.org and
(43:35):
click on Bach Talk where you'll finda simple form that you can use to
ask your question or leave a comment.
If you'd rather interact more, just sendus an email, bachtalk@bachsociety.org,
we look forward to hearing from you.
(43:59):
The associate producer of Bach talkis Scott MacDonald, promotional
and other assistance provided asalways by Charissa Marciniak and
Andie Murphy of Right Relations.
Special thanks today to Dennis Sparger.
Of course.
And to our esteemed guest, Philip Brunelle
(44:20):
bach
Talk is
(44:47):
a
registered trademark of theBach Society of St. Louis.
I'm Ron Klemm.
This is Bach Talk.
Trust.
It's the same as, youknow, as Dennis knows.
Sure.
With choirs.
Sure.
Yes.
You know, learning what you'regonna do, that you trust your
(00:21):
singers and they trust you.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
I mean, one of the things whenI started VocalEssence, I had no
idea how do you create a board?
How do you raise money?
I didn't know any of making that happen.
Mm-hmm.
But I figured it out.
We make it.
Yeah, we make it work.
But it's not by hoping it will happen.
You have to work hard to make ithappen, and you have to know that
(00:43):
people believe in what you're doing.
(01:06):
To me, it was all about whatwe will do is top quality.
That everybody will come to a concertmany times not knowing the repertoire
we're going to do, and they'll go,well, we don't know what we're going to
hear, but we know it will be well done.
And that's the most important thing.
(01:41):
That's the voice of PhilipBrunellee, along with the ensemble
singers of the former PlymouthMusic Series of Minneapolis.
We know them now as VocalEssence moreabout Philip in a moment you are hearing
an arrangement of an old Stephen Fosterfolk song by William Grant Still.
(02:01):
It's from an early recording in a seriescalled Simply Witness, part of an Ongoing
Commitment by Philip and VocalEssence tothe music of African American composers.
But that barely scratches thesurface of all that they do.
(02:22):
Hello and welcome to Bach Talk.
I'm Ron Klemm.
This past June, we shared alive episode of Bach Talk.
That is to say an episode that tookplace in front of a live audience
as part of the 2025 Chorus AmericaConference here in St. Louis.
As you may recall, internationallyacclaimed conductor Leonard Slatkin was
(02:44):
our special guest, and if you missedit be sure to go back and listen.
During that conference, over the spanof several days, we at The Bach Society
of Saint Louis had the wonderful andunique opportunity to talk to over a
dozen prominent figures in the fieldof choral music in the coming months.
(03:04):
We hope to share some of thoseconversations with you beginning today.
Perhaps the grand patriarch at theconference rivaled only by our own
music director and conductor DennisSparger was Philip Brunelle, a member
of the Minnesota Music Hall of Fame.
Philip is one of the most highlyrespected conductors in America.
(03:27):
He has worked tirelessly for wellover six decades, sharing the
joy of exploring and experiencingmusic of every style imaginable.
It was a joy too for Dennis and Ito sit down with Philip in the lobby
of the Hyatt Regency at the Archhere in St. Louis during the Chorus
America Conference a few weeks ago.
(03:49):
And as you're about tohear, his reputation as a
visionary is well deserved.
It is an honor to havePhilip Brunelle with us.
Uh, I'm alongside DennisSparger, music Director of the
Bach Society of Saint Louis.
And is there even astronger word than honor.
An amazing, uh, gentleman with a, a, atremendous, uh, pedigree and all of that.
(04:13):
But let's talk PhilipBrunelle about your life.
You, you are now stillconducting the, uh, group called
VocalEssence up in Minneapolis,and you began that group when?
56 years ago.
I began VocalEssence.
I knew that the Twin Cities ofMinneapolis, St. Paul, they didn't
have any choral organization beyondthe groups that did the traditional
(04:39):
pieces, and that was great.
But who was gonna do all thisother music that was out there?
So I, which is typical of me, pickedup the phone because my motto is,
you don't know if you don't ask.
So I picked up the phone and calledthis guy named Aaron Copeland and
said, Mr. Copeland, would you come toMinneapolis and conduct your choral music?
(05:02):
And he said, young man.
No one has ever asked me to do that.
Tell me the date I'll be there.
That is a story.
I read that, and that shocked methat no one asked him to do because
his choral music is wonderful.
It's wonderful.
Yeah, yeah,
yeah.
And so we had a, and so webecame lifelong friends.
We later recorded his opera, The TenderLand, which won awards and I mean.
(05:27):
Yeah, no, Aaron was adelightful, wonderful man.
So it was the same thing, youknow, some years later I needed a
narrator for a piece that I wanted tocommission for narrator and orchestra.
And I thought, whose voice do I want?
And I thought, you know, I think JamesEarl Jones would be the right voice.
(05:49):
Um.
Hmm.
I better call.
So, because what's he gonnasay, yes or no, right?
Well, and I got his number andI called him and I said, I would
like to commission a piece fornarrator and orchestra for you.
And he went "for me?
No one's ever commissioned apiece for me." And he said, "I'm
(06:13):
honored and of course I'll doit." And we went from there.
We became dear friends.
Yeah.
How terrific.
We'll just do it.
I'll hand you my number whenwe're done, and if you need
a narrator, you just call me.
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
Ron.
But I, let's start with Aaron Copeland.
What, describe him in a few words.
What was, what was he like?
(06:34):
He was so friendly.
He was so, um, I mean, so easy to be with.
He, he would get in front of the choir andsay, you know, I'm not really a conductor.
Um, but you know, I love whatI've composed and I hope we
(06:54):
can do some music together.
I mean, it was very wonderful,humble, very lovely man.
All the way.
He was great and uh, and hewasn't a good conductor, you know?
But I will tell you,he knew what he wanted.
Mm-hmm.
Well, that's right.
Yes.
And he would describe, and so you'd besinging, I remember we were singing At
(07:16):
the River, and we sang what was on thepage and he went, no, I know that's
what's on the page, but that's notquite what I really wanted it to be.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So let's kind of work.
And so each piece we would kind ofwork through what it was that he was
looking for, and uh, he was, yeah,he was absolutely a gem to work with
(07:40):
and the choir, of course, loved him.
Oh, that's terrific.
And they were poured, theyjust poured themselves out for
him because of what he did.
Sure.
Yeah.
Great.
Yeah.
You, you really, uh, touched onsomething that's a whole other
episode of this podcast, and thatis lifting the music off the page.
Mm-hmm.
Isn't that what our job is?
It is.
(08:01):
And, and how, how do you approach that?
What's, what's the key?
Well, first of all, every pieceand every composer is different.
Yeah.
It's not gonna be thesame thing with each one.
Mm-hmm.
And you have to kind of like.
What is the pieces feeling?
What was the composer tryingto do with this piece?
(08:25):
How can we achieve that idea?
Uh, because indeed rhythmsare just an approximation.
Yes.
Of what the composer was looking for.
Yes.
It may show dotted eighth, 16th,dt, dt, dt, but you know, that
may not be quite what they wanted.
(08:46):
Mm-hmm.
Maybe they wanted it to betriplets and they, you know,
who knows who, but the fact is.
Each piece rhythmically and just interms of its spirit and its phrasing,
you have to take them individually
Sure.
And try to make them your own.
Mm-hmm.
Because you need to be ableto share that with the chorus.
(09:07):
Mm-hmm.
I find so often that people who workin the choral music industry have their
roots in the church and in church music.
What's it been for you?
Well, let's put it this way, if yourfather was a minister, it started
(09:28):
with you as a "PK" Preacher's kid.
So it started, it startedwith me as a boy soprano.
And my calling card was a song calledThe Holy City, which I sang forever
as a boy soprano, won contests,singing that and did it all.
(09:50):
Oh no.
Nursing homes, churches, conventions.
Oh, we want little Philip tocome and sing the Holy City.
Yes, which I did.
Oh yes.
And then years later, when Imentioned this to a friend.
She dug in the Minnesota radiostation, WCCO in their archives,
(10:13):
found the recording of where Ihad won this contest singing.
And so now she put it out there thatpeople could hear little Philip Brunelle,
age eight singing the Holy City.
So, yeah.
It's there.
Did you bring a copy ofthat along with you today?
You know, I didn't.
Oh, I didn't, but you know,Dennis, you can find it.
(10:36):
We can find it.
If you really want it.
Yeah.
And he could accompany you on theaccordion too, if you really would.
I had a similar background, butmy, my training was to accompany
my mother who did the singing.
Ah, okay.
Well, my mother was myaccompanist, so oh, yes.
Yeah, absolutely.
But you also, uh, early on, uh,became an organist, uh, and,
(10:56):
and, and an instrumentalist.
Tell us a little bit aboutyour instrumental background.
Well, I started with, I started, uh, Ididn't start piano lessons till I was four
Uhhuh.
Oh, wow.
That's a, that's, that'sa little old, isn't it?
I kind of waited.
Yeah.
Right.
So I did that.
But then our family knew this friendwho was, uh, a missionary in Ecuador.
(11:18):
And he would come up occasionallyand he played the marimba.
And I thought, oh, I shouldlearn to play the marimba.
So I did.
And uh, so I did, but then I was told,oh, you should learn to play the organ.
So I was 12 when I startedlessons on the organ.
And so I just, you know,sort of kept all that going.
Um, plus just loving everythingabout singing and uh, um, early on
(11:46):
had this fascination with Handel.
So I thought, well, you know, there'sgotta be more things than just Messiah.
And so I started looking at all ofhis oratorios and was fascinated.
So when I started VocalEssence, webegan by doing a Handel Oratorio
every year, but we never did Messiah.
(12:08):
Because everybody else was doing that.
So we did all, we did all theseothers, and it was amazing.
And I also realized that they werekind of lengthy and audiences were
saying, couldn't you make cuts?
And so I went, oh.
And then I found outthat Handel made cuts.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And didn't do the whole thing.
So I realized I didn't haveto do three hour oratorios.
(12:32):
I could do one and a halfor two hour oratorios.
And start, and it was like, oh,you learn programming lessons.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
The key there of course is notto, uh, mess up the story too bad.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
But there's always in those, a lotof arias that are just simply, uh,
adding an emotion to the moment.
(12:53):
Sure.
Yeah.
How does VocalEssence, the group thatyou're, uh, in charge of these days.
How does it?
You mean that I founded.
That you, that you founded?
Didn't we talk about that?
Yes.
Okay.
Talk about the founding of VocalEssence.
Alright, there you go.
Well, I was appointed the organistdirector at Plymouth Congregational
(13:13):
Church in Minneapolis and when thathappened I got thinking about, 'cause
I've lived in the Twin Cities foreverand I got thinking about, you know, there
should be a choral group in town thatwould focus on music besides the 10 or
12 war horses which people were doing.
(13:34):
And so that got me thinking about it.
I went to the minister at the churchand said, do you think outside of the
church we could start a choral series?
And he was wonderful andsaid, do what you need to do.
And so many of the church choirparticipated, but also people in
the community got involved in this.
(13:57):
It started as a, um, a, a volunteerorganization and then over the years
it created, um, more parts to it.
I now, uh, here we are 56 years later.
Uh, we started a professionalchorus of 32 singers.
(14:17):
Uh, and then 10 years ago I thoughtwe needed to start a youth choir
that looked like the Twin Cities,not just a youth choir, but I didn't
want it to be quotas and so I havea wonderful associate conductor.
Uh, and so he took the idea and wentinto every high school in the Twin Cities
(14:43):
and said to the kids, now if you'llcome and talk to me about being in a new
choir, uh, I'll give you a water bottle.
So he gave away about400 water bottles and
Incentives are everything,
I guess it was.
Yeah.
You know, and he also said to them,I, you know, the audition was to take
(15:03):
their phone and sing something to him.
Aha.
And that was the audition.
Mm-hmm.
Anyway, we have this group.
It's, as I said, not about quotas.
It's about can you, uh, are youinterested in being in a choir?
And so if you looked at this group nowof 40 singers, and of course obviously
they're high schools, so it changes everyyear, but if you looked at it, you'd go.
(15:26):
Oh, that looks like the Twin Cities.
It sort of represents everybody.
It's a mixture of all ofthose groups come together.
And obviously after the first year,those folks tell their friends.
Yep, yep.
Sure.
And then their friends.
And so you get this whole group.
And then the fourth group that westarted about, uh, maybe, let's
(15:48):
see, it's been 10 years now.
Uh, I wanted to do somethingamong the retirement homes in the
Twin Cities to get older peoplesinging and continuing to sing.
And I thought, well, you don'twanna call them old people's choirs.
So we've now called them Vintage Voices.
(16:08):
I love it.
Perfect.
Yeah.
They love it.
Yeah.
And so we are in three different, uh,places in the Twin Cities where people
can come and they do concerts andsing, and it's been absolutely great.
So we have Vintage Voices.
The, the youth choir, we asked themto create their name the first year
(16:28):
and they decided to take the lastfour letters of Minnesota SOTA.
Yeah.
And call themselves "Singers of This Age."
How about that?
And so we,
that's a creative bunch.
So we have SOTA.
Yeah, they're great.
And so that, and then we have the ensemblesingers, which is the professional group.
(16:50):
And then we have a chorus,a volunteer chorus of 120.
Wow.
Wow.
And then with the 120, you do big things.
With orchestra?
Some with orchestra, some acapella.
But you know, it could be, it could beacapella, things that they needed to do.
And each year, maybe a differenttheme and we work together.
Yeah.
And do you find spaces for120 voices to perform in?
(17:13):
Yeah.
Well we do.
We find, we find some, uh, either inschools or churches find for them to work.
It's been great.
(17:50):
From their 50th anniversary concertin 2018, the VocalEssence Ensemble
singers led by Philip Brunellewith just the final portion of, in
the beginning by Aaron Copeland.
More of our conversation with PhilipBrunelle at the 2025 Conference of
Chorus America in just a moment with BachSociety Music Director Dennis Sparger.
(18:15):
I'm Ron Klemm, and this is Bach Talk.
I wanna talk a little bit about yourwork in opera, because you've spent
some time with the Minnesota Operafor actually some length of time.
Do you still work with theMinnesota Opera at all?
No, I worked with them for 17 years.
(18:35):
Right.
I mean, when I was at theUniversity of Minnesota, I was
a, a piano and percussion major.
And my second year at the university,I was asked to come and play a
concert with Minnesota Orchestra.
So I did, and the third year Iwas there, they said, we want
(19:00):
you to become a full-time member.
So then it was, okay, I need to keepgoing to school, but I need to be in
the orchestra full time, which I did.
So I played in theorchestra for five years.
Starting when you were how old?
20.
Wow.
Yeah.
20.
Sounds like twentyish.
Yeah, it was 20.
(19:20):
yeah.
Did that.
And then, um, after five years, uh, onesummer I had this wonderful opportunity.
I got a call, would I come fora opera training program at the
Metropolitan Opera, and, uh,I thought this would be great.
So I did.
It was going through tons of operas,uh, with George Schick, who was
(19:45):
the number two conductor at The Metand, uh, Schick, he was a great guy.
And so I did that.
I came back and Minnesota Operacalled and said, we'd like you
to become the music director.
So this was in the early days,starting VocalEssence, and I was
at the church, but I said yes.
(20:07):
So for 17 years, I was the musicdirector at Minnesota Opera, and then
as VocalEssence just got bigger andbigger, I realized I couldn't do this.
So then I just quit the operaand I've been back twice to
conduct something for them.
But, uh, yep, that, and I'vedone guest conducting of operas.
(20:28):
I've done some in Sweden, did one inSouth Africa, other places in the USA.
So, so I've kept that part of it.
And obviously also at VocalEssence,we've occasionally done, uh, concert
versions of operas that I, if, if,if they had a major choral part.
(20:50):
It wasn't gonna be an operajust to show some solos.
Yeah, no, no, I understand.
But if it had a wonderful choralpart, Ooh, why don't we do that?
There you go.
You know, and we did, yeah.
Uh, touring.
It appears that the VocalEssence has donea little bit of touring around the world.
At least you hinted at that.
Tell us about that.
Well, the next one coming up.
(21:11):
Uh, the ensemble singers, the 32.
Yeah.
Will be in England.
The last week of July.
They've been invited to singat The Three Choirs Festival,
which is like the big deal.
Yes, it is.
In England.
Mm-hmm.
And we are the third Americanchoir in their history.
(21:33):
Really?
To, in, to be invited.
So we will do a concert there.
We will do an even songat Westminster Abbey.
We will do a concert in the Abbeyat Bath and we will do a broadcast,
uh, a video broadcast, uh, ofChristmas music for the BBC.
(21:55):
Oh, wonderful.
Yeah.
Wonderful trip.
Yep.
Yeah, so they will be, it willbe great to have these things.
I've also arranged for, you know, likea lunch one day for them to have lunch
with John Rutter and then anotherlunch with uh, Bob Chilcott and uh, you
know, so there's been some nice littlethings that will happen around the way.
(22:17):
Touring though, can't be thefirst focus of the, of the group?
No.
No.
It's about building thisaudience as you, as you said.
And uh,
It is.
Except, you know, when you get a call fromthree choirs, you go, maybe we could come.
Maybe we could come,
figure out a way.
Maybe we can work this out.
Yep.
Figure out a way.
But, also your home audience loves thefact that there are people interested
(22:40):
in hearing you in another country.
Somewhere else, yes.
They think, oh, that's kindof wonderful to have happen.
Mm-hmm.
We've also, several times touredto Mexico and done programs down
in Mexico City, uh, and in thatarea and a couple of times to Asia.
We were with the World Choral Symposiumover there in Korea and sang, and
(23:05):
another trip was in China and Japan.
Wow.
So, yeah.
So there's been, you know, things there.
So yeah.
The problem with all those,of course it's called expense.
Well, it's very expensive.
Yes.
Do what, what repertoire do youtake to, uh to, to represent, uh,
(23:26):
the Midwest to, uh, other lands.
What, what do you look to do with that?
Depending on the event or the country?
Mostly I take American music.
Mm-hmm.
Um, when you go to Europe, the onlycomposers they've ever heard of,
unfortunately are Bernstein and Copeland.
(23:48):
And so, you know, and I go,that's fine and we can do that.
Mm-hmm.
But we've got lots of other composers.
Uh, and the same thing would betrue when we have gone to Asia.
Mm-hmm.
And, but they love to know that wecould do arrangements of spirituals
For sure.
Spirituals.
I was gonna ask about that.
Oh yes.
(24:08):
They want, but they also areinterested if you can do folk songs.
I mean, the only folk song Ithink they know is Shenandoah.
You know, and I'm going like,it's beautiful, but you know what?
We have others, you know?
So, you know, there's you, it'skind of a feeling of broadening.
What is out there in terms ofrepertoire and what you can do.
(24:30):
But basically I would try to doAmerican music always, including
some Minnesota composers.
Because we have a number of them,whether it's Dominick Argento or
Libby Larsen or Stephen Paulus.
I mean, there's a number ofthem that you know we could do.
So I've always included some of that.
(25:23):
Once again, we are hearing theVocalEssence ensemble singers
in concert led by their founderand conductor, Philip Brunelle.
This is "The Day is Done" byMinnesota composer, Stephen Paulus.
Let's listen to just a little more.
(26:39):
More from Philip Brunelle injust a moment, including his
thoughts on the long-running radioshow, A Prairie Home Companion.
Our conversation took place at the2025 Conference of Chorus America in
St. Louis, along with Bach SocietyMusic Director Dennis Sparger.
I am Ron Klemm, and this is Bach Talk.
(27:05):
I wanna know about Garrison Keillor.
Okay.
Talk to me about this guy and you.
Now let's, let's set the record straight.
He was on the air for a long,long time, but you led a choir
for his very first broadcast.
Am I right?
I was on the first broadcast.
(27:27):
Oh, okay.
But there wasn't a choir on the broadcast.
Oh, okay.
He had called me, he was atthe university as a student.
I didn't know him and he didn't know me.
Mm-hmm.
But he called and said, um,say I'm gonna start this radio
broadcast and I need somebody whoknows classical music and hymns.
(27:50):
And I said, yeah, that's me.
And he said, do you really know hymns?
And I said, Garrison, every hymn, youknow, I know the question will be, who
knows more verses and the answer is me.
Which was true, was true.
Of course it was true.
Anyway, so he invi, he askedme to come on the show.
(28:13):
So I was on the first show.
It was, you know, a veryintimatelittle thing of a couple people.
We did the show and I stayed aroundfor a couple of months doing it, and I
then realized I just didn't have time.
Because it was going to evolve and Icould see that he needed in a hurry.
(28:34):
Yeah.
In a big hurry.
And I couldn't do that.
So then I said, you know, Garrison, whydon't you invite my friend Butch Thompson?
Mm-hmm.
To come on and he could be your musicguy, because Butch was fantastic.
Yeah.
And, and, and, and he did, and Butchbecame the next guy on the show.
Then some years later, hestarted thinking about having a
(28:58):
chorus come on and he called me
Yeah, once in a while.
Yeah.
And then we, we would go on likeonce a month or once every six weeks.
And the secret with Garrison was, I mean,he'd, you could either bring some ideas of
repertoire that you could propose, uh, hedidn't want it too high faluten, you know?
(29:22):
No.
Yeah.
But that's okay.
We, we did, but, but heliked classical music.
Oh, yeah.
So it wasn't that.
No, we did, but it was more, uh, also, uh,that he wanted to write lyrics to songs
and then have us perform them, and theywould be hilarious lyrics and all that.
And it would all bedone at the last second.
(29:44):
You never, some of it you mightget a day before, but you know.
And so
The music or the lyrics or both?
Both.
Both.
Oh, for crying out loud, goodness.
Yeah.
But you see, as long as youwere flexible and could do it.
But at the same time, Garrison and I weregood friends and if he handed me something
that I thought we couldn't do well.
(30:06):
Mm-hmm.
I would just say, yeah, Idon't think we can do this.
Let's save it for another time.
And he'd go, okay.
You know, he didn't like, oh, he wasn't,you know, but at the same time, I knew
that if I thought we could do it, thenwe would, at our quick rehearsal, I'd
say, okay, gang, here's what we have.
Let's, let's put it together.
And, and, and they would do it.
(30:27):
Um, but Garrison was very,uh, he had lots of last minute
ideas, which is how he operated.
I would also do a, I didn't do a lot, butI did about, oh, I'd say 10 or 15 programs
with symphony orchestras with him.
Mm-hmm.
And around the country, and you know,that was obviously had to be preset.
(30:50):
Sure.
Mm-hmm.
And so you'd get that and you knewthe music, but even then he would
have written new lyrics to thingsthat showed up at the last moment.
Okay, here we go.
This was, it was typical.
And Garrison and I stay in touch.
I don't.
I haven't talked to him forthe last week, so you know.
Right.
Well
you have his number.
(31:11):
I do.
You can talk.
He calls me.
I call him.
Yeah.
He still is all overthe country performing.
Yeah, he's, but now he's pretty muchdoing it with just, he's there and he
goes with Rich Dworsky as his pianist.
He might bring a singer along,but it's just , you know, but
he loves doing it small and he'sdoing it all over, so it's great.
(31:32):
Well, he, he still has a strong followers.
Oh, my word.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Absolutely.
I mean, you know, Garrisonis, he's now, uh, 83.
I'll tell that you just gavethat up, but that's alright.
No, he'd say it, he'd say it too.
I know he would.
Yeah.
There are two things I just learnedthough in the last two minutes about
Philip Brunelle, and that is one.
(31:55):
You don't mind taking risksbecause that's what you have to do.
Yes.
In life, right?
You got it Sometimes.
Yes.
And the other thing is theimportance of trust, right?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
If you don't have trust withsomebody, it's not gonna work.
No.
Trust was the big and stillis for the, it's the same as,
you know, as Dennis knows.
(32:15):
Sure.
With choirs.
Sure.
Yes.
You know, learning.
How you, what you're gonna do,that you trust your singers and
they trust you and make it work.
And you're a board and your colleagues,
your soloists, your orchestra, all of us.
Makes sense.
Yeah.
I mean, one of the things when I startedVocalEssence, uh, and of course I had
no idea how do you create a board?
(32:36):
How do you raise money?
I didn't know any of making that happen.
Mm-hmm.
But I figured it out.
And so in 56 years, uh, wehave never had a deficit.
Uh.
But it is not by sitting around.
It is by raising money,by talking to people.
And you know, I mean, we have a budgetnow of about two and a half million.
(32:59):
Wow.
And, uh, we make it, yeah.
We make it work.
It's not by.
You are hoping it will happen.
You have to work hard to make ithappen, and you have to know that
people believe in what you're doing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I remember many, many years ago that youchanged the name of the organization.
Did it take a while for that new nameto start sticking with your audience?
(33:21):
It did.
We changed the name because of coursewe were at Plymouth Church, so I
thought, well, Plymouth Music Series.
However, there were twoproblems over the years.
One, one of the big suburbs intown is Plymouth, Minnesota.
Right.
So many people thought our concertswere in Plymouth, Minnesota.
(33:42):
Geographically confusing right there.
Then the other one, when your initialsare Plymouth Music Series, PMS.
Uh huh.
Maybe not.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Maybe someone,
someone caught that.
Yeah, someone caught that.
So the name was terrific when you began.
Yep.
Just.
Just right.
It was right.
But this was 15 years later,we realized we've gotta change.
(34:04):
And then I brought a group of, of,um, advertising folks together.
Let's think about a name.
And we tried a bunch of them.
Of course.
They said, oh, well we can just callit Philip Brunelles Music series.
I said, absolutely not.
Because my goal is I'm gonna do this aslong as I can, but at the time that I
(34:25):
should step down, it's gonna continue.
Mm-hmm.
Therefore, I don't want it named after me.
'cause you'd have tochange the name again.
Yeah.
So then we began, and finallysomebody said, you know, the
essence of what we do is vocal.
Why don't we call it VocalEssence?
And I went, you got it.
And that's how we get the name.
Mm-hmm.
(34:45):
But so is the quality of the organization.
This made it work so well.
Mm-hmm.
No matter what you would've called it.
Exactly.
Exactly.
To me, it was all about that.
What we will do is top quality.
That everybody will come to a concertmany times not knowing the repertoire
we're going to do, and they'll go,well, we don't know what we're going to
(35:07):
hear, but we know it will be well done.
Oh, that's just incredible.
And that's the most importantthing to come there.
So there's a lot ofmusic we do that is not.
Familiar, but people will come andthey go, okay, you know, this is
probably something I should hear.
And here we go, let's see what happens.
There'll be other times that it'llbe something they know, but it's a
(35:28):
real, it's a real kind of interestingmix of putting those together.
Yeah.
And how often does the chorusperform throughout the year?
We do six concerts a year and sothere's, you know, there's an October.
Uh, there's this year comingup, uh, there's the October one.
There's the Decemberwelcome Christmas program.
(35:50):
There's January when JohnRutter is gonna be with us.
Wow.
Our February is our witness concert,which focuses on African American music,
which we've now done for 35 years.
Yes.
And then there will be several moreconcerts in the spring that we will do.
Mm-hmm.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Usually six.
Yeah.
(36:11):
You, you clearly are aforward thinking type of guy.
Yep.
But you've also earnedthe right to reflect.
Mm-hmm.
You've had a lot of time to think aboutall the things that you've accomplished,
and I just wanna reflect, uh, see ifyou'd reflect on a couple of things.
For example, who, who or whatshaped Philip Brunelle most?
(36:34):
Well, certainly I owe a lot tothe encouragement of my mother.
My father, as I mentioned, was aminister, but he died when I was in
eighth grade and left her with five kids.
Wow.
And uh, it was, I didn't know atthe time how poor we were, but
(36:56):
we were below the poverty level.
I found out later, but.
She was, you know, so positivewe're gonna make this work.
There was never, oh, woe is me.
None of that.
We just simply moved on.
And I, one of the stories I rememberhearing later was that when my
(37:18):
father died, my piano teacher, whowas this phenomenal guy in town, uh,
called my mother and said, I knowyou can't afford lessons anymore.
For Philip, but he can't stop, so if youwon't tell him, they will now be free.
And so until I finished highschool, I would get these classes.
(37:42):
I used to wonder, I wonder how shecan afford to do this, you know?
And then after high school, she toldme that Mr. Bergman had said this.
And I've tried when I go out todo workshops with young people.
I say, you know, you won't finda ton of people that are ultra
(38:02):
talented, but you'll find people.
Mm-hmm.
You need to be able tobelieve and help these people.
Yeah.
And some way, whatever that is.
Yes.
And for me, it was my pianoteacher helping me to do that.
But she was, she was avery positive person.
And so when I think aboutdoing things like saying, well.
(38:23):
You don't know if you don't ask.
Yes.
It would be the kind of thingthat my mother would've said to
me as I continued on in life.
I also had a phenomenal high school choraldirector, um, Harry Opal, who was very
well, that we would never have done junk.
(38:45):
We would've done good music.
Right.
And he was very, and he was thereat Mini Haha Academy for 40 years.
And he also, knowing mysituation when I started.
In ninth grade kind of took me under hiswing and kind of steered me, found me the
(39:05):
right organ teacher to take lessons from.
And I was the accompanistalso for the choir.
And he wa he was just a veryimportant figure in my life.
So, you know, a few people like that toguide you can make all the difference.
Certainly.
As we all know in how it works.
I also, at the church, um.
(39:27):
I tried, have tried to encourage,uh, high school kids, you know,
hey, if you wanna on Sunday, bemy page turner at the organ, do.
And I remember one time, oh, this is 20years ago, uh, I had a young kid who was
my page turner and one Sunday he came tome and he said, I suppose you, you don't
(39:53):
want me to be your page turner anymore.
And I said.
Why?
And he said, well, you know, Ijust told my folks that I'm gay.
I said, what is that todo with turning pages?
Not anything, I know.
Yeah.
You know, and he kind ofreally, I said, of course not.
No, you can, you're,you're my page turner.
You know, I mean, it's stuff that,how you , how you you can encourage
(40:17):
people, how you do, you know?
Yes.
Support them.
Support them, and what you do.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
What would you, last question.
Okay.
I promise I, and I thank youso much for your gracious time.
This has been terrific.
What would you like to impart onour young people moving forward?
What is the life lessonthat you wanna pass on?
(40:42):
I would say that I would say to youngpeople who are interested in music.
Um, I want you to be inquisitive.
I want you to just be wonderingwhat's out there, what you know,
what music don't I know that I shouldknow of which there is vast amounts.
(41:06):
I feel the same.
I know lots of music,but I don't know it all.
And so I'm always inquisitive.
How do you become creative at figuringout the music that's available to us?
And what might it be?
Some of it, eh, maybe not.
Throw it away, other music.
(41:28):
Ooh, this is really good.
And I never knew that piece,so I would just encourage young
people to just expand their, uh,their reach of what's out there.
Um, certainly you can find outtitles, but there's so much more that.
You don't know about and youthink, oh, I never knew this piece.
I never knew that piece.
(41:49):
You know, I never heard of that composer.
It's okay, but find out about them.
So I just encourage young peopleto be experimental in terms of
looking at the repertoire that'sout there and what they can do.
Build trust.
Oh, yes,
I heard that.
Yep.
Take risks.
Take risks.
Absolutely.
Oh my word.
(42:09):
And be curious and be, be curious.
Absolutely.
Be curious.
That's the most important.
Yes.
Yep.
Artistic director, VocalEssence,Philip Brunelle with us at the 2025
Conference of Chorus America with BachSociety Music Director Dennis Sparger.
I'm Ron Klemm, and this is Bach Talk.
(42:47):
We're listening to Karin Boye's"Evening Prayer" Set to Music by the
Norwegian composer, Egil Hovland,edited by Philip Brunelle who leads
the VocalEssence ensemble singers.
Do you enjoy hearing
(43:15):
about
other choral
ensembles besides TheBach Society of St. Louis?
Let us know.
Take a moment right now to contactus, just go to Bachsociety.org and
(43:35):
click on Bach Talk where you'll finda simple form that you can use to
ask your question or leave a comment.
If you'd rather interact more, just sendus an email, bachtalk@bachsociety.org,
we look forward to hearing from you.
(43:59):
The associate producer of Bach talkis Scott MacDonald, promotional
and other assistance provided asalways by Charissa Marciniak and
Andie Murphy of Right Relations.
Special thanks today to Dennis Sparger.
Of course.
And to our esteemed guest, Philip Brunelle
(44:20):
bach
Talk is
(44:47):
a
registered trademark of theBach Society of St. Louis.
I'm Ron Klemm.
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