March 15, 2025 • 34 mins
In this episode, we explore the often overlooked but crucial topic of Letters of Protection (LOPs). Our guest, insurance attorney, Will Allan, explains how these legal tools can provide essential support for accident victims seeking medical treatment without the burden of upfront costs. This comprehensive discussion unpacks the ins and outs of LOPs, including why many medical providers hesitate to accept them and how patients can advocate for themselves in these situations.
Will shares experiences drawn from over 25 years in law, guiding listeners through the complex interplay of legal and medical issues that can arise post-accident. From understanding liability and ensuring fair treatment to the importance of prompt medical attention, this episode is designed to empower those dealing with the aftermath of an accident.
Listeners will also learn about the critical need for healthcare providers to be receptive to LOPs, ensuring patients receive the care they need when faced with financial barriers. With insights on establishing liability and maintaining proactivity in both medical and legal settings, this conversation serves as a valuable resource for anyone navigating these challenging waters.
Join us as we delve into the world of LOPs, equip yourself with the knowledge to make informed decisions, and encourage active participation in both your health and legal journey. Subscribe and share this episode with those who may benefit from understanding their options post-accident, and be an active participant in your care!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Mark Moran (00:03):
All right guys, welcome back.
This is another episode of Backto Back with Dr Mark Moran, and
I have a special guest here, mrWill Allen.
Or should I call you Dr WillAllen?
Technically, you're DrJurisprudence.
Will Allen (00:17):
Yeah, that's true, right, that's true.
But you can just call me WillJust Will.
Yeah, just Will Just call meMark.
Dr. Mark Moran (00:22):
And today we are going to be talking about LOPs,
LOPs.
Will Allen (00:27):
LOPs yes.
Dr. Mark Moran (00:28):
A lot of my patients say what's a LOP?
Okay, so we're going to talkabout LOPs, which are Letter of
Protections.
Will's an expert in this andhas been practicing law for a
long time.
I have, so let's get started.
First things first Ready.
What's the coolest thing you'veever done?
Will Allen (00:42):
Oh man.
Dr. Mark Moran (00:43):
There's too many .
Will Allen (00:44):
There's really there's too many, but I will say
things that I like to do.
I can't just point to one andgo that's the coolest thing I've
ever done.
Dr. Mark Moran (00:58):
I love hanging out with my family.
Will Allen (01:00):
I know, that sounds dull, but I have three boys and
if I'm doing something with mythree boys whether it's fishing,
whether it's hunting, whetherwe're talking about God with
other people or I'm doing thaton my own those are the things I
really, really like to do.
So family is critical and, ofcourse, my wife.
Yeah, she's the only female, sothere's a tremendous amount of
test after of course there andshe's kind of fallen in line
(01:22):
with what we do.
Dr. Mark Moran (01:23):
So we, I agree do things very good, good.
So you're a good dad, that'sgood, and your boys go to ut
right.
Yeah, no we bleed maroon, Iunderstand like we're talking
about and my kids bleed as well.
There you go, so tell us alittle bit about yourself so we
can get started.
We need a fun, fundamentallevel of understanding, and then
(01:44):
I'm going to dive into harderquestions.
Will Allen (01:46):
Okay, I've been practicing law for 25 long years
and went to Texas A&M where Igraduated with a civil
engineering degree, and about myjunior year I decided I really
didn't want to design bridgesand I was not going to be good
at it.
Dr. Mark Moran (02:03):
I heard it's really hard to get a 4.0 there.
Will Allen (02:06):
Yes, it is yes it's very hard.
Dr. Mark Moran (02:08):
So anyone that gets a 4.0 in engineering A&M
props to them.
Will Allen (02:13):
Props yes.
Dr. Mark Moran (02:13):
Props to them.
Will Allen (02:14):
William, my son way to go.
Dr. Mark Moran (02:16):
Strong work.
Will Allen (02:19):
So I said why not law school?
We'll go there, and so I wentto law school not knowing truly
what I was going to do, like,okay, I can be a lawyer or a CEO
, because I've heard if you havean engineering degree and a law
degree, you can be a CEO ofFortune 500 companies.
I just didn't quiteconceptualize.
There's 500 of those companies,so it's kind of competitive.
Dr. Mark Moran (02:40):
They do call it Fortune 500.
I don't know why they got it.
Will Allen (02:45):
So I didn't quite fit that.
But what happened when I was inlaw school?
I competed in a mock trialcompetition and it was like god
came down and said this is whatyou should do and I really
really liked it argumentative.
I read speculative.
Dr. Mark Moran (03:01):
You know the objections I wanted to say that
ever since I booked this, I'mgoing to object the whole time.
Will Allen (03:08):
If I ever say anything, you know crass or
off-color, you just object to itSpectative Argumentative
Leading the witness.
Ask and answer.
Those are legit objections.
I know I watch TV and really Icame out of law school.
I clerked for some law firmsthat were trial lawyers.
(03:30):
It's really what I wanted to doand I started on the dark side,
the insurance company side.
Dr. Mark Moran (03:37):
You worked on the insurance company side, the
dark side, wow.
Will Allen (03:41):
So I worked for insurance, defense firms,
defense firms, and then I wentout on my own and started
representing people.
Dr. Mark Moran (03:49):
Okay, so it probably makes you really good
at what you do now, because youhave an inside insight about
what's going on from theinsurance side.
So what made you switch then?
Will Allen (04:00):
It got old representing insurance companies
where I would send them a billbecause you bill by the hour,
which is different when yourepresent people who can't
afford to pay by the hour alwayslike an insurance company can.
And they would say no, thattelephone call that needs to be
only 0.1.
(04:20):
You shouldn't have spent 18minutes on that and so they
would really cut my bills andreally we weren't representing
people.
We were really trulyrepresenting the insurance
company.
Dr. Mark Moran (04:34):
Because those were Well we know insurance
companies.
Will Allen (04:37):
they control so much .
People don't realize how muchinsurance companies control in
this country.
It's a lot, it's tremendous, sowe're glad you made control in
this country.
It's a lot, it's tremendous, sowe're glad you made it to this
side.
Dr. Mark Moran (04:48):
Thank you, okay, and you've been working on this
side for 13 years 13 years.
And you're an expert in yourthing, your area.
Yes, so what is a LOP A?
Will Allen (04:57):
LOP Letter of Protection.
A Letter of Protection is aletter where we are protecting
as lawyers or the doctor, theclient, so that they can get
medical care if they don't haveinsurance or they don't want to
(05:20):
use their insurance where thepatient, our client, is treated
under a letter of protection,such that they don't have to pay
up front okay, and when do youget to use these lops?
Dr. Mark Moran (05:36):
so what's the most common types?
Will Allen (05:38):
let me give you an example with somebody who has
health insurance, they will beinvolved in some kind of
accident, whether it's a caraccident whether it's a slip and
fall, whether it's somethingreally really significant
explosion in the oil field andwe'll take a smaller example car
(05:58):
wreck they call.
If they have a lot of peopledon't have primary care
physicians, but they'll calltheir primary care physician and
set up an appointment and theprimary care physician says, or
their staff, oh, you're involvedin an accident.
We don't treat accidents.
Dr. Mark Moran (06:14):
I hear about this a lot.
Will Allen (06:15):
Quick story when I was a defense lawyer I deposed a
lot of injured people and Iwould always ask them why didn't
you go?
Because we'd get their medicalrecords them.
Why didn't you go?
Dr. Mark Moran (06:26):
we get their medical records.
Will Allen (06:28):
Why don't you go to your primary care physician?
And they'd say, because theywouldn't take me they don't take
LOPs.
I was involved in a wreck andthey won't, they wouldn't, and I
was like sure they.
But since I have beenrepresenting people for 13 years
, I was shocked.
Dr. Mark Moran (06:45):
Yeah, a lot of doctors don't take LOPs.
Well, you tell me.
Will Allen (06:49):
Why is?
Dr. Mark Moran (06:50):
it.
Will Allen (06:50):
I mean, I can think they don't want to have to give
deposition testimony, they don'twant to have to constantly give
their medical records toattorneys when they're
subpoenaed, but they don't wantto.
Dr. Mark Moran (07:01):
And it's a risk.
So we're taking the case oncontingency.
So if the case is lost, we loseall of our field fees and it
takes a long time to get paid.
How long?
Will Allen (07:11):
does it usually take to close the LLP?
Dr. Mark Moran (07:12):
case it varies it on years.
Many that can yes it absolutelycan a lot of doctors don't have
the bandwidth to deal with thatand just keep on carrying
forward charges till the end thecase and when they might not
even win.
So a lot of doctors just choosenot to do LOP cases.
Will Allen (07:26):
Well, and I will say it's really important that
doctors like you will take LOPs,because there are people who
don't have health insurance andthey can't afford necessarily to
pay your fees Right and an LOPwhen they're involved in an
(07:46):
accident of some sort, a wreck,slip and fall.
Wherever somebody else'snegligence, where there's an
insurance policy, right, doctorslike you in particular, you can
help them.
Yeah, and we'll take an LOP.
Dr. Mark Moran (08:01):
So certainly there's pros and cons to working
with LOPs versus an insurancecompany.
Will Allen (08:07):
Okay.
Dr. Mark Moran (08:07):
Yes, and you agree.
I agree, there's pros and consFor you.
Will Allen (08:12):
Sure On the medical side.
Dr. Mark Moran (08:13):
So we listed that it's a free medical care
until the end of the case.
Nothing is paid during the case, correct?
That's right.
Okay, if I say something wrong,tell me I will.
I'm just a doctor, I play oneon TV and then they get usually
preferred treatment gettingscheduling and appointments
because they're part of the LLPprocess, instead of having to
wait longer and longer to seedoctors my understanding I use
(08:34):
we usually try to get ourpatients in quicker.
They don't have to worry aboutother issues, about dealing with
pharmacies or imaging places,therapy places, because once
again under the LLP, you knowthese places are gonna already
take those services correct okay, some of the cons are they
gotta wait a while till the caseis closed.
(08:54):
Sometimes, right absolutelyright and there's a lot of
detail involved.
There's a lot of details thatwill help my patients out under
LPs.
I'm sure you have the samething when you have clients that
have LPs and like, oh, I wishyou guys would just understand
that.
It's very important that youunderstand this is a legal case
and there's things that you cando to help your case out.
True.
Will Allen (09:16):
Yes.
Dr. Mark Moran (09:17):
Okay, so what's the best thing they can do to
help out their case if they havean LOP case?
Will Allen (09:23):
And our typical LOP letter of protection.
That really, thank God.
A good doctor like you willtake is that sometimes we don't
win Right Most of the time.
I will say I think thestatistics are 98% of all cases
settle.
And you can get paid.
The other doctors who may havetreated one of my you can get
(09:44):
paid.
The other doctors who may havetreated one of my clients can
get paid.
We get paid our attorneys feesand generally the client of
course gets paid for their painand suffering that they've
experienced mental anguish,there could be disfigurement
sure, the physical impairmentthat they're compensated for,
(10:05):
but if it doesn't work out, theycould still potentially have to
pay the doctors.
So it's really really importantthat we make sure and we vet
(10:25):
our cases so that we can helpour client, because not every
case that we come across can weestablish liability.
Because we're dealing withliability insurance policies,
which is very different from,say, health insurance.
Dr. Mark Moran (10:34):
Is that the main important thing to do is
establish liability.
Will Allen (10:39):
Both.
They go hand in glove so if wecan't establish liability
generally, we would turn thecase away.
Dr. Mark Moran (10:47):
Okay.
Will Allen (10:47):
And I could give you a bunch of examples about when
there wouldn't be a liability.
Dr. Mark Moran (10:52):
If you're the one that runs into the rear of
somebody.
Will Allen (10:56):
You're the tortfeasor.
Well, that's not going to work.
Dr. Mark Moran (10:59):
So when you say liability, you mean who's at
fault.
Who's at fault?
Right, okay, so if someone isnot at fault, then it's not
their liability.
You probably would accept thatcase yes if someone is at fault
then it's probably harder totake accept those cases right
usually what happens is, I meanas far as their medical care.
Will Allen (11:17):
There's insurance policies automobile policies.
They have personal injuryprotection where it's a no fault
type of insurance.
Hopefully they have some healthinsurance, but we're dealing
with automobile insurancepolicies.
Dr. Mark Moran (11:32):
And there's a lot of different coverages.
Will Allen (11:34):
There's lots of different rules.
Dr. Mark Moran (11:36):
It's like insurance policies.
There's many differentinsurance policies.
There's not one set of rulesthat govern everyone.
Even in the same, like BlueCross, blue Shield or Humana,
there's different insurance.
Little innuendos like detailsthat you got to know Right.
Will Allen (11:48):
And different coverages.
Dr. Mark Moran (11:49):
Yeah, and can anyone get an LOP?
Or is there criteria to get tomeet to get an LOP?
So an LOP is a letter that weprepare.
Will Allen (11:59):
So as long as we establish the attorney-client
relationship because we believethey have a case, we can fight
for them for a recovery.
Then if they don't have healthinsurance, or if they do, but
they don't want to use theirhealth insurance, because if
somebody hurt, you, run into youwith a car, whatever the case
(12:22):
may be.
Dr. Mark Moran (12:22):
Some people say I mean I've got a $5,000
deductible and the rates will goup.
Will Allen (12:28):
All of those things.
So they would rather treatunder an LOP.
We give them that option.
We give people that option.
Sometimes people don't have anyother option but an LOP so just
the criteria.
Is that we can establish thatthere's an at-fault party?
With insurance Right, that'sreally importantault party with
insurance Right, that's reallyimportant.
Liability insurance.
Dr. Mark Moran (12:48):
And is there a certain time frame that would be
good for, say, someone gets anaccident, they go home, they're
trying to see if they need to doany therapies or emergency
services or go to the ER or adoctor?
Is there any time frame thatthey really need to start
considering if they want to gosee or get involved with a
lawyer to see if they're an LPcandidate or not?
Can they wait?
Will Allen (13:07):
years.
That's a great question.
It's a really, really goodquestion.
It is much better for theircase if they seek medical care
ASAP and I'll tell you why Ifthey don't insurance company
adjustersers, insurance companydefense lawyers which I was-
that start questioning whetherthey're really hurt.
(13:29):
Sure, I've the veracity, I'veseen it of like.
Dr. Mark Moran (13:33):
If you're in so much pain, why did you wait
months to come see a doctor?
Will Allen (13:36):
you're just, it's a money grab.
That's why you're here and it'sI mean people try to gut it out
.
They try to do some homeexercise, especially now
instagram.
You know you can find sciaticaand you start doing exercises
and maybe they try that.
But if you have liabilityinsurance, the other party, or
you have underinsured motoristcoverage, we can talk about if
(13:58):
you wanted to and educate somepeople about the different types
of coverages as long as there'scoverage right A lot of
different coverages under aninsurance policy.
They need to go and they need togo for themselves, of course,
to get better, but also so thatthey can be paid.
Dr. Mark Moran (14:15):
Their doctor's expenses can be paid without a
claims adjuster going nahthey're not being truthful, and
I've seen that personally withpatients that get in an accident
.
They report these pains andthen a week or two or three
later they get in anotheraccident, which really
complicates it, because nowwhich pain is caused by which
which accident?
(14:36):
Or they go to lift up somepresents that they're wrapping
for the kids and they hurt theirback, and now is the pain
coming from the accident or fromlifting up their gifts, or
they're doing yard work orwhatever else.
So I I agree with you.
I think that the sooner thebetter to get some type of
objective evaluation or datathat can't be refuted.
So either get a physicianopinion or go get some x-rays or
(14:56):
go get an urgent care opinion.
That way you say, this isobjective data.
This is what happened after myinjury and then we can see how
things go.
Will Allen (15:03):
Absolutely, yeah, well said, and for yourself, so
many people are really busy,they don't have time.
I don't want to go to a doctorright now.
See if this can better on itsown, and that's not the route to
go when you're dealing withthis situation.
Dr. Mark Moran (15:19):
For yourself.
Will Allen (15:21):
Go Get treatment.
Dr. Mark Moran (15:22):
Make sure you're okay, Because it is a fact that
you could have underlyinginjuries that are festering,
that you could be asymptomaticfor a while and they just kind
of bleed, bleed, bleed or sometype of problems and then later
it gets really bad really fast.
Absolutely, I agree with youthat you need to get, take care
of yourself, make sure you'reokay and then go get some type
of objective data in case youdecide to use an LOP or not.
(15:42):
So far I agree with youranswers.
You can't object with me.
Will Allen (15:46):
I can start objecting.
You can want it if you want.
Dr. Mark Moran (15:49):
I would love to be able to overrule an objection
from a lawyer.
Okay, and then what's the usualamount of time?
I know it varies that an LOPcase takes before the time to
accident to the time tosettlement.
Will Allen (16:04):
I have helped people with cases where they finished
their medical treatment and it'stwo weeks later that we settled
.
I had cases where I had to filea lawsuit and especially now
with COVID, the courts havealways been backed up.
(16:24):
But even gosh, we're almostfive years post-COVID right.
And the courts are still backedup with cases.
So it really really varies.
Dr. Mark Moran (16:36):
And it oftentimes depends on liability
yeah, questionable liability.
Will Allen (16:42):
And the insurance company and their lawyers are
fighting really hard and theydon't want to pay what we
believe is fair.
And next thing, you know you'reat the courthouse and you're
picking a jury and you've got totry it and that takes years to
get there.
Dr. Mark Moran (16:54):
So it's better to kind of I'm sorry, go ahead
and finish, and that takes yearsto get there, so it's better to
kind of I'm sorry, go ahead andfinish Well.
Will Allen (16:59):
So on a quick.
I would say a quick would besix weeks after medical
treatment is squared away in along time.
I mean, I've tried a case whereyou know the accident was gee
2012 and it was 2017.
Oh, it was 2017 to try the case, and those can be more
(17:24):
significant type injury cases aswell, because there's a lot
more dollars that are needed forthe client and insurance
companies don't want to paythose kind of dollars.
Dr. Mark Moran (17:35):
I'm sure that varies depending if it's a
commercial case or a privatecase.
Will Allen (17:38):
Absolutely.
Dr. Mark Moran (17:39):
Commercial case being like a business entity
versus another person walkingoff the street that hits you.
Will Allen (17:44):
That's right.
So a business would be like Idon't want to necessarily use
business name, but a supermarket.
Dr. Mark Moran (17:52):
Mark's Cookie Company, Mark's Cookie Company
LLC.
He loves oatmeal raisin andchocolate chip with nuts.
Will Allen (17:58):
I'm just saying um, yes, or 18 wheeler they have.
They've got to have bigpolicies.
They're really big, 80 000pound missiles cruising down the
road and when they're hitsomebody, usually because
they're hurting them bad, sothere's big policy limits there
right, um, and so yes, thattypically takes a little longer
(18:18):
to resolve.
Joe blow rear-ending somebodyand they've got low back pain or
neck pain and they seektreatment.
Maybe they get shots, which I'dlike to visit with you about,
because I'm sure you get a lotof that.
Microtransplant certainly saysure does it hurt?
What is that?
Um, and those typically resolvesooner, okay, rather than later
(18:41):
okay.
Dr. Mark Moran (18:43):
So I know that when I see patients lop patients
, I always try to educate themabout what to do a big, big
person, about education,knowledge is power and I say try
not to try not to let there bea lapse in service or
evaluations.
It makes it really hard ifsomeone goes to a therapist for
one or two times and then sixmonths later they go back to the
therapist and say, oh, can Icontinue my treatment?
(19:05):
Because now there's six monthsof who knows what happened.
And it's the same thing withdoctors.
If you go see a doctor and theyevaluate you and say you got to
do this plan and then theydon't come back for two or three
months, it really makes it hardto justify why aren't you
coming to see us if you'reclaiming you have all this pain.
So I encourage my patients to beactively involved with their
case and if they miss anappointment or miss an MRI or
(19:25):
miss therapy or they forgettheir medicines, you need to go
get that stuff.
It's very important, becauseit's a legal case, that you have
to say you're building apicture to show your lawyer and
the other lawyer what's going onand you want to make sure that
you're building a picture toshow your lawyer and the other
lawyer what's going on and youwant to make sure that you're
maximizing the probability ofyou winning this case and there
should be no lapses of therapiesso when you tell a patient you
(19:48):
need this type of medicaltreatment, and they only do half
of it, right?
Will Allen (19:55):
that's not good medically.
Maybe you can speak into alittle bit of that, and it's
certainly not good for the case.
Because what happens?
The insurance adjuster or thedefense lawyer says, yeah, I
mean, look, you weren't reallyhurt or that.
No wonder you're hurt.
You didn't follow doctors.
Dr. Mark Moran (20:11):
Exactly that's what they usually say is you're
not getting better becauseyou're not following your
doctor's orders.
Will Allen (20:15):
Now, of course, if they're better and they don't
need anything.
Dr. Mark Moran (20:17):
Perfect, if they're healed and their pain is
gone, then you don't need to doanything else.
But still you should go in andget a final evaluation to show
again objective data thatthey're all better, there's no
more problems.
It'll help your case.
But I agree with you thatpatients need to be actively
involved with their case andcontinue to follow up with their
doctors or therapists or taketheir medicines or see their
(20:37):
lawyers, because you don't wanta lapse of time because it
weakens the case.
Will Allen (20:41):
I agree 100% weakens their recovery time.
Dr. Mark Moran (20:45):
So what is it that you?
Will Allen (20:46):
say you need to be educated.
Use the art of war in some ofyour episodes.
Dr. Mark Moran (20:52):
If you fail to prepare, you're preparing to
fail.
Will Allen (20:54):
Yeah, I mean those kind of things hold true.
Educate yourself.
Educate yourself about medicine, what you tell your patients in
your podcast which includeseducating yourself about your
case.
Talk to your or whoever it maybe about your case, so that you
know and you're educated and canmake decisions and improve your
(21:16):
case.
Dr. Mark Moran (21:18):
Knowledge is power.
Never hesitate to ask aquestion.
We're happy to help out.
A lot of times we have a lot ofthings to do, but ask us a
question, we're happy to helpout.
I'm sure you are the same way,absolutely.
Okay, let's take a time out,okay, and now you're going to
give me two truths and a lieafter a word from our sponsors.
Will Allen (21:35):
Okay, sponsors, so go ahead.
I thought there was going to besomebody to come at you now.
Dr. Mark Moran (21:41):
No, this is it.
This is it.
I use the same joke every time.
I probably need to come up witha new joke, but anyway.
So we want to know about you.
Your clients want to know aboutyou.
They don't get a chance to talkto you very often.
It's usually probably very busy.
So two truths and a lie.
I'm going to see if I can guessyour lie based on reading you.
Will Allen (21:57):
See how good I'd be at a lawyer.
No, I like that.
I like that you tell me the lie, okay.
Dr. Mark Moran (22:02):
I mean about me.
Will Allen (22:04):
I became a lawyer.
That's a lie and I really, trulylike to help people.
It's not just about earning apaycheck Obviously, I have
family and kids to feed and acouple to put through college
but helping people in a numberof different cases Okay, and it
(22:28):
is injury case, of course thatcan run the gamut to somebody
who is a significantly burned, aburned victim, somebody who
loses a loved one in some kindof accident, I can be there to
not just help them financially,which usually they really need
health care future health care,that kind of thing.
(22:50):
But they're hurting not justphysically.
In all, cases it's mentally, inall cases it's mentally.
And to be able to walk withthem through that and minister
I'm a believer and to ministerto them and with them for their
spirit, their heart, is stuff Igenuinely love to do.
Dr. Mark Moran (23:10):
They've got to be able to trust you.
Will Allen (23:12):
Yes.
Dr. Mark Moran (23:12):
I'm saying that's a truth.
Will Allen (23:14):
That is a truth, okay.
Dr. Mark Moran (23:15):
So you've got one more truth and one more lie.
Will Allen (23:27):
I'm still trying to guess what the lie is.
I'm not good at lying, so yougot you.
You tell me what's a lie aboutme that you've kind of read okay
, I'm gonna say a truth is howabout this?
This, this is a lie, okay, okay, go ahead.
Dr. Mark Moran (23:38):
Okay, I would say you used to play baseball,
or you used to play basketballand dunk balls.
Will Allen (23:44):
Good poker face.
Good poker face.
That's it.
No, that's good, that's good.
Yeah, I think my vertical'sabout like this Anyway, it is
what it is.
Dr. Mark Moran (23:55):
It is what it is Okay.
So moving on.
And it is what it is, it iswhat it is Okay, so moving on.
I'm going to say what's yourfundamental lesson that you want
your clients to know throughthis podcast so that, moving
forward, as everyone comes inand you start getting tons of
business because everyone knowsthat you're a great lawyer and
they can trust you and you'regoing to be with them the whole
time what do you say?
(24:15):
Help yourself out by helping mewith this information.
What is it?
Will Allen (24:21):
What would I?
What do I tell my clients?
And one of the things that Itell them to help them in their
case and their family, is getmedical treatment.
Get the medical treatment thatyou need so that you can get
better or as best you canbecause you can't necessarily
(24:42):
heal certain type of injuriesbut get the medical care that
you need so that later on in thefuture you're not suffering
more than you are now, and thething I'll say about that is
what's the first thingstewardess or airline people say
when you get on a flight?
Dr. Mark Moran (24:55):
They say first put the oxygen on you and take
care of yourself so you can takecare of others.
It's very similar with theseLOP patients.
They feel like they can't comein or they don't want to come in
because they have other thingsto do.
But it's exactly the opposite.
They need to come in and gettreated so they can take care of
themselves and, consequently,they can take care of others.
That's right.
And then say people come in andthey get an LOP and they're
(25:19):
going through all kinds of stuff, but they don't have any
options to go to the surgeon forevaluation or go get injections
or they don't want to take anymedicines.
A lot of times people don'twant to take medicines.
So what are the options?
If they don't really want to goto a doctor's office, what's
the best thing for them to do?
Will Allen (25:38):
That's a great question.
I'm not a medical doctor and Isay this is where you should go
and I encourage them to seekmedical treatment, seek medical
advice, seek medical care.
And if they don't do that,there's not a whole lot that we
really can do, so that would besomething for you, well.
I'm kind of curious when theyask you why don't you?
(26:00):
What do you typically tellpatients?
They say I don't want to takethat medicine or I'm really
scared of needles.
I don't want to.
You know, I don't want aninjection.
Dr. Mark Moran (26:10):
Sure, I'm a big advocate for patients are in
control, like I know.
They come to me for help, butthey're in control.
They decide what they want orwhat they don't want, and it's
very much a conversation to findout something that we can meet
on and agree on.
If they don't want to doinjections, they don't have to
do injections.
If they don't want to trymedicines, they don't have to
try medicines.
If they don't want to see asurgeon, then they don't see a
(26:31):
surgeon.
They're very much driving theboat.
I'm basically kind of offeringthem or educating them to
options and then we'll talkabout it and see I'll answer
questions.
They say I don't want to dothat.
Okay, then let's move on toother options.
One option that I think is agood option for patients that
really don't want to domedicines or afraid of needles,
or don't want to have surgery,is the one month MD program that
we have, where patients can goonline 24, seven and educate
(26:55):
themselves about what's going on.
So it's available 24-7 and it'svery good educational material
so they can become an activeparticipant in their health and
they don't even have to leavetheir house so while they're
recovering from this injury, ifthey don't want to seek medical
attention in the ways that weusually do, they can still get
better just from understandingthe pathology.
The course talks about thecauses and the treatments and
(27:15):
the prevention of low back pain.
Will Allen (27:17):
Okay, objection Overruled, I've got to object.
I know what pathology means,but what does pathology mean?
Dr. Mark Moran (27:27):
Well, pathology means something that's not right
, Like if you have a pathologyin a body.
That means something isn'tright.
So if they're talking aboutpathologies after an accident,
something is wrong causing thepain.
Will Allen (27:37):
Herniated disc.
That's a pathology disc bulgeyeah, all those are pathologies
obviously broken bone so, andI'm sorry to interrupt you no
you're fine.
I really I didn't.
I didn't have a good objection,just objection.
You were saying then they havepathology like a herniated disc
and they don't want to dosomething that you would
(28:00):
recommend Right, and you wouldsay, and I will say, your
program really truly is good.
Dr. Mark Moran (28:06):
I haven't seen all of it, but what I have seen
is very, very informative.
Thank you, they can watch, yeah, so what they can do is they
can either go directly online toonemonthmdcom or they can talk
to the lawyer and say, hey, canyou send an LLP to me?
And then I'll just give themaccess to the course and they
can get it and it all goes underthe LLP Outstanding.
Will Allen (28:28):
And so what are a couple of things on the podcast
or the course, the course, thankyou.
That would really help a lowback somebody who has pathology.
Dr. Mark Moran (28:43):
L5 s1 look at you with your medical
terminology I know well and youknow what?
Will Allen (28:48):
I had an anatomical little model.
I did and I left it in my, inmy car.
Just I'm kind of curious, youknow.
Okay, point it out, look at it.
But if it is pathology that'simpinging, touching the nerve
root, causing some pain,generally that's treated how.
And then segue to help mebetter understand what you would
(29:15):
recommend they do or somethingthat's in your course, that you
could say this is something goodto do.
Dr. Mark Moran (29:21):
Very good question.
Sustained objection.
I'm going to answer that one.
In general, I educate mypatients.
There's four things to do forany type of pain.
It's conservative things liketherapy, acupuncture,
chiropractor, different types ofconservative things.
Then it's medicines, whether itbe prescription medicines or
non-prescription medicines.
Then it's interventions likeinjections and then it's surgery
(29:42):
.
So if you take all theseoptions that make it really hard
to understand or complex andjust break it down to those four
categories, then it's easier tounderstand what you're willing
to do and what you don't want todo.
If a patient comes in they sayI don't want to do surgery or
injections, then I know theoptions are going to be
conservative care and ormedications.
Will Allen (29:59):
They don't want the other two groups.
Dr. Mark Moran (30:01):
If they say, well, I really want to do
therapy and I'd be happy withinjections, but I don't want to
do medicines, then those are theoptions.
We'll try therapy first andthere's an algorithm.
You usually go fromconservative to medicines, to
interventions, to surgery.
You want to do things and nothave any regrets, like you don't
want to go to surgery right offand then have a problem which
almost never happens but it'spossible.
And then you say I wish I wouldhave tried other things first.
(30:22):
So I tell my patients there'salgorithms.
You follow conservative thingslike physical therapy or
chiropractor, over-the-countermedicines, rest, ice heat.
Then you try medicinesprescription medicines or
non-prescription medicines.
Then, if you want, you can tryinjection.
There are many different typesof injections to treat pain.
And then the last option as faras LLP cases would be go see a
(30:43):
surgeon just to see if you needsurgery.
A lot of times clients thinkthat if they're going to surgeon
they have to have surgery.
That's not true.
Remember, the client is theboss, the client is in control
and they should never doanything that they don't want to
do just because they're talkingto you or me or anyone else.
If they don't want to do it,they say I don't want to do that
and that's fine.
But if they go to a surgeon andthe surgeon says you're not a
(31:04):
surgical candidate, then we knowthat that's no longer an option
.
And now we have three options toreevaluate.
If they say you are a surgicalcandidate, it's still up to the
patient to determine if theywant surgery or not.
The patient or the client isthe boss.
They make the decisions andthey should never do anything
they don't want to do.
It's very simple.
The course goes through theseoptions in more detail about
(31:25):
what they can do at home as faras causes of low back pain, the
treatments that are available,which are those four things, and
then actually preventing painfrom coming back and minimizing
it in the future.
Will Allen (31:35):
Which is what?
What would be an example ofpreventing pain or minimizing it
in the future?
Dr. Mark Moran (31:40):
Very good.
Important thing I believe in iscore strength, and in the
course I say a strong core getsyou more, gets you more of
everything.
So a strong core is going tomake sure you offload stress
from your spine.
It's going to minimize yourchance of bulging discs.
It's going to make you morestable in dealing with these
pains.
So Pilates is an option.
Yoga is really good.
(32:00):
Weight loss is good.
Definitely, don't smoke.
Maintain hydration.
All these things will helpprevent pain from coming up.
Will Allen (32:07):
Do you give them exercises I haven't gotten that
far in your course or do yourecommend that they go to a
chiropractor or a physicaltherapist for those types of
exercises I give?
Dr. Mark Moran (32:17):
all the options, so I give suggestions for
exercises at home or we have iton our social media or I say if
you want to try a chiropractor,I'm happy to send you to a
chiropractor.
I'm just sort of a facilitatorthe client and the patient is
the boss.
I work for them at that pointand I'm just giving them their
options and they ask mequestions and then we will agree
(32:43):
with what's best of them, butthey have the ultimate decision.
Will Allen (32:43):
They're the boss, right?
They're the boss.
We give them options and theychoose what they want to do.
Dr. Mark Moran (32:46):
Pretty simple they're there, they're the boss,
they make the decisions okay,as we close, and tell us where
your location is, where are youroffices?
Will Allen (32:54):
so right off of Northwest military, we've got a
website.
Dr. Mark Moran (32:59):
What's the website?
Will Allen (33:01):
WillAllenLawcom.
Dr. Mark Moran (33:02):
Will Allen Law.
It's A-L-L-A-N.
Will Allen (33:04):
A-L-L-A-N and we've got a great team.
I really love my team.
We've got great lawyers, greatlegal staff.
We help a lot of people andintend to do so as long as the
good Lord will let me.
Dr. Mark Moran (33:19):
Well, I know that my patients that have seen
you have had nothing but goodthings to say about you.
Will Allen (33:23):
That's likewise.
Dr. Mark Moran (33:24):
I thank you for helping out my patients in your
cases, so I appreciate that.
Right on Northwest Military yes, right.
And then, what else can youtell us before we say goodbye?
Will Allen (33:37):
Get medical care if you need it.
Don't hesitate and don't wait.
Contact a lawyer as well.
You don't want to wait tocontact a lawyer If an adjuster
calls you an insurance adjusterand says, oh yeah, we'll pay you
this, and it's usually rightafter the wreck.
Dr. Mark Moran (33:56):
Don't do it.
Will Allen (33:57):
Seek legal help, call us.
We'd love to help you, butthere's also other lawyers who
you can call A lot of goodlawyers.
A lot of good lawyers who canhelp you make the right decision
, give you the options that wejust talked about and you can
make the decision on how youwant to proceed.
Dr. Mark Moran (34:14):
So be actively involved.
Actively involved, be an activeparticipant, not a passive
recipient in your life,absolutely.
It's the main thing in mycourses, so be actively involved
with your case, learn about thelegal process, learn about LOPs
or LOPs.
Lops Learn about Will Allen andmake sure you think he's a good
guy, or just trust me Be anactive participant and not a
(34:35):
passive recipient, and you, toowill find health and improvement
.
Thank Be an active participantand not a passive recipient, and
you, too, will find health andimprovement.
Thank you so much for coming on.
Will Allen (34:42):
Dr Mark, it's always a pleasure.
Dr. Mark Moran (34:44):
It's always good to see you.
It's just Mark, it's all good.
Okay, all right.
All right guys, welcome back.
This is another episode of Backto Back with Dr Mark Moran, and
I have a special guest here, mrWill Allen.
Or should I call you Dr WillAllen?
Technically, you're DrJurisprudence.
Will Allen (00:17):
Yeah, that's true, right, that's true.
But you can just call me WillJust Will.
Yeah, just Will Just call meMark.
Dr. Mark Moran (00:22):
And today we are going to be talking about LOPs,
LOPs.
Will Allen (00:27):
LOPs yes.
Dr. Mark Moran (00:28):
A lot of my patients say what's a LOP?
Okay, so we're going to talkabout LOPs, which are Letter of
Protections.
Will's an expert in this andhas been practicing law for a
long time.
I have, so let's get started.
First things first Ready.
What's the coolest thing you'veever done?
Will Allen (00:42):
Oh man.
Dr. Mark Moran (00:43):
There's too many .
Will Allen (00:44):
There's really there's too many, but I will say
things that I like to do.
I can't just point to one andgo that's the coolest thing I've
ever done.
Dr. Mark Moran (00:58):
I love hanging out with my family.
Will Allen (01:00):
I know, that sounds dull, but I have three boys and
if I'm doing something with mythree boys whether it's fishing,
whether it's hunting, whetherwe're talking about God with
other people or I'm doing thaton my own those are the things I
really, really like to do.
So family is critical and, ofcourse, my wife.
Yeah, she's the only female, sothere's a tremendous amount of
test after of course there andshe's kind of fallen in line
(01:22):
with what we do.
Dr. Mark Moran (01:23):
So we, I agree do things very good, good.
So you're a good dad, that'sgood, and your boys go to ut
right.
Yeah, no we bleed maroon, Iunderstand like we're talking
about and my kids bleed as well.
There you go, so tell us alittle bit about yourself so we
can get started.
We need a fun, fundamentallevel of understanding, and then
(01:44):
I'm going to dive into harderquestions.
Will Allen (01:46):
Okay, I've been practicing law for 25 long years
and went to Texas A&M where Igraduated with a civil
engineering degree, and about myjunior year I decided I really
didn't want to design bridgesand I was not going to be good
at it.
Dr. Mark Moran (02:03):
I heard it's really hard to get a 4.0 there.
Will Allen (02:06):
Yes, it is yes it's very hard.
Dr. Mark Moran (02:08):
So anyone that gets a 4.0 in engineering A&M
props to them.
Will Allen (02:13):
Props yes.
Dr. Mark Moran (02:13):
Props to them.
Will Allen (02:14):
William, my son way to go.
Dr. Mark Moran (02:16):
Strong work.
Will Allen (02:19):
So I said why not law school?
We'll go there, and so I wentto law school not knowing truly
what I was going to do, like,okay, I can be a lawyer or a CEO
, because I've heard if you havean engineering degree and a law
degree, you can be a CEO ofFortune 500 companies.
I just didn't quiteconceptualize.
There's 500 of those companies,so it's kind of competitive.
Dr. Mark Moran (02:40):
They do call it Fortune 500.
I don't know why they got it.
Will Allen (02:45):
So I didn't quite fit that.
But what happened when I was inlaw school?
I competed in a mock trialcompetition and it was like god
came down and said this is whatyou should do and I really
really liked it argumentative.
I read speculative.
Dr. Mark Moran (03:01):
You know the objections I wanted to say that
ever since I booked this, I'mgoing to object the whole time.
Will Allen (03:08):
If I ever say anything, you know crass or
off-color, you just object to itSpectative Argumentative
Leading the witness.
Ask and answer.
Those are legit objections.
I know I watch TV and really Icame out of law school.
I clerked for some law firmsthat were trial lawyers.
(03:30):
It's really what I wanted to doand I started on the dark side,
the insurance company side.
Dr. Mark Moran (03:37):
You worked on the insurance company side, the
dark side, wow.
Will Allen (03:41):
So I worked for insurance, defense firms,
defense firms, and then I wentout on my own and started
representing people.
Dr. Mark Moran (03:49):
Okay, so it probably makes you really good
at what you do now, because youhave an inside insight about
what's going on from theinsurance side.
So what made you switch then?
Will Allen (04:00):
It got old representing insurance companies
where I would send them a billbecause you bill by the hour,
which is different when yourepresent people who can't
afford to pay by the hour alwayslike an insurance company can.
And they would say no, thattelephone call that needs to be
only 0.1.
(04:20):
You shouldn't have spent 18minutes on that and so they
would really cut my bills andreally we weren't representing
people.
We were really trulyrepresenting the insurance
company.
Dr. Mark Moran (04:34):
Because those were Well we know insurance
companies.
Will Allen (04:37):
they control so much .
People don't realize how muchinsurance companies control in
this country.
It's a lot, it's tremendous, sowe're glad you made control in
this country.
It's a lot, it's tremendous, sowe're glad you made it to this
side.
Dr. Mark Moran (04:48):
Thank you, okay, and you've been working on this
side for 13 years 13 years.
And you're an expert in yourthing, your area.
Yes, so what is a LOP A?
Will Allen (04:57):
LOP Letter of Protection.
A Letter of Protection is aletter where we are protecting
as lawyers or the doctor, theclient, so that they can get
medical care if they don't haveinsurance or they don't want to
(05:20):
use their insurance where thepatient, our client, is treated
under a letter of protection,such that they don't have to pay
up front okay, and when do youget to use these lops?
Dr. Mark Moran (05:36):
so what's the most common types?
Will Allen (05:38):
let me give you an example with somebody who has
health insurance, they will beinvolved in some kind of
accident, whether it's a caraccident whether it's a slip and
fall, whether it's somethingreally really significant
explosion in the oil field andwe'll take a smaller example car
(05:58):
wreck they call.
If they have a lot of peopledon't have primary care
physicians, but they'll calltheir primary care physician and
set up an appointment and theprimary care physician says, or
their staff, oh, you're involvedin an accident.
We don't treat accidents.
Dr. Mark Moran (06:14):
I hear about this a lot.
Will Allen (06:15):
Quick story when I was a defense lawyer I deposed a
lot of injured people and Iwould always ask them why didn't
you go?
Because we'd get their medicalrecords them.
Why didn't you go?
Dr. Mark Moran (06:26):
we get their medical records.
Will Allen (06:28):
Why don't you go to your primary care physician?
And they'd say, because theywouldn't take me they don't take
LOPs.
I was involved in a wreck andthey won't, they wouldn't, and I
was like sure they.
But since I have beenrepresenting people for 13 years
, I was shocked.
Dr. Mark Moran (06:45):
Yeah, a lot of doctors don't take LOPs.
Well, you tell me.
Will Allen (06:49):
Why is?
Dr. Mark Moran (06:50):
it.
Will Allen (06:50):
I mean, I can think they don't want to have to give
deposition testimony, they don'twant to have to constantly give
their medical records toattorneys when they're
subpoenaed, but they don't wantto.
Dr. Mark Moran (07:01):
And it's a risk.
So we're taking the case oncontingency.
So if the case is lost, we loseall of our field fees and it
takes a long time to get paid.
How long?
Will Allen (07:11):
does it usually take to close the LLP?
Dr. Mark Moran (07:12):
case it varies it on years.
Many that can yes it absolutelycan a lot of doctors don't have
the bandwidth to deal with thatand just keep on carrying
forward charges till the end thecase and when they might not
even win.
So a lot of doctors just choosenot to do LOP cases.
Will Allen (07:26):
Well, and I will say it's really important that
doctors like you will take LOPs,because there are people who
don't have health insurance andthey can't afford necessarily to
pay your fees Right and an LOPwhen they're involved in an
(07:46):
accident of some sort, a wreck,slip and fall.
Wherever somebody else'snegligence, where there's an
insurance policy, right, doctorslike you in particular, you can
help them.
Yeah, and we'll take an LOP.
Dr. Mark Moran (08:01):
So certainly there's pros and cons to working
with LOPs versus an insurancecompany.
Will Allen (08:07):
Okay.
Dr. Mark Moran (08:07):
Yes, and you agree.
I agree, there's pros and consFor you.
Will Allen (08:12):
Sure On the medical side.
Dr. Mark Moran (08:13):
So we listed that it's a free medical care
until the end of the case.
Nothing is paid during the case, correct?
That's right.
Okay, if I say something wrong,tell me I will.
I'm just a doctor, I play oneon TV and then they get usually
preferred treatment gettingscheduling and appointments
because they're part of the LLPprocess, instead of having to
wait longer and longer to seedoctors my understanding I use
(08:34):
we usually try to get ourpatients in quicker.
They don't have to worry aboutother issues, about dealing with
pharmacies or imaging places,therapy places, because once
again under the LLP, you knowthese places are gonna already
take those services correct okay, some of the cons are they
gotta wait a while till the caseis closed.
(08:54):
Sometimes, right absolutelyright and there's a lot of
detail involved.
There's a lot of details thatwill help my patients out under
LPs.
I'm sure you have the samething when you have clients that
have LPs and like, oh, I wishyou guys would just understand
that.
It's very important that youunderstand this is a legal case
and there's things that you cando to help your case out.
True.
Will Allen (09:16):
Yes.
Dr. Mark Moran (09:17):
Okay, so what's the best thing they can do to
help out their case if they havean LOP case?
Will Allen (09:23):
And our typical LOP letter of protection.
That really, thank God.
A good doctor like you willtake is that sometimes we don't
win Right Most of the time.
I will say I think thestatistics are 98% of all cases
settle.
And you can get paid.
The other doctors who may havetreated one of my you can get
(09:44):
paid.
The other doctors who may havetreated one of my clients can
get paid.
We get paid our attorneys feesand generally the client of
course gets paid for their painand suffering that they've
experienced mental anguish,there could be disfigurement
sure, the physical impairmentthat they're compensated for,
(10:05):
but if it doesn't work out, theycould still potentially have to
pay the doctors.
So it's really really importantthat we make sure and we vet
(10:25):
our cases so that we can helpour client, because not every
case that we come across can weestablish liability.
Because we're dealing withliability insurance policies,
which is very different from,say, health insurance.
Dr. Mark Moran (10:34):
Is that the main important thing to do is
establish liability.
Will Allen (10:39):
Both.
They go hand in glove so if wecan't establish liability
generally, we would turn thecase away.
Dr. Mark Moran (10:47):
Okay.
Will Allen (10:47):
And I could give you a bunch of examples about when
there wouldn't be a liability.
Dr. Mark Moran (10:52):
If you're the one that runs into the rear of
somebody.
Will Allen (10:56):
You're the tortfeasor.
Well, that's not going to work.
Dr. Mark Moran (10:59):
So when you say liability, you mean who's at
fault.
Who's at fault?
Right, okay, so if someone isnot at fault, then it's not
their liability.
You probably would accept thatcase yes if someone is at fault
then it's probably harder totake accept those cases right
usually what happens is, I meanas far as their medical care.
Will Allen (11:17):
There's insurance policies automobile policies.
They have personal injuryprotection where it's a no fault
type of insurance.
Hopefully they have some healthinsurance, but we're dealing
with automobile insurancepolicies.
Dr. Mark Moran (11:32):
And there's a lot of different coverages.
Will Allen (11:34):
There's lots of different rules.
Dr. Mark Moran (11:36):
It's like insurance policies.
There's many differentinsurance policies.
There's not one set of rulesthat govern everyone.
Even in the same, like BlueCross, blue Shield or Humana,
there's different insurance.
Little innuendos like detailsthat you got to know Right.
Will Allen (11:48):
And different coverages.
Dr. Mark Moran (11:49):
Yeah, and can anyone get an LOP?
Or is there criteria to get tomeet to get an LOP?
So an LOP is a letter that weprepare.
Will Allen (11:59):
So as long as we establish the attorney-client
relationship because we believethey have a case, we can fight
for them for a recovery.
Then if they don't have healthinsurance, or if they do, but
they don't want to use theirhealth insurance, because if
somebody hurt, you, run into youwith a car, whatever the case
(12:22):
may be.
Dr. Mark Moran (12:22):
Some people say I mean I've got a $5,000
deductible and the rates will goup.
Will Allen (12:28):
All of those things.
So they would rather treatunder an LOP.
We give them that option.
We give people that option.
Sometimes people don't have anyother option but an LOP so just
the criteria.
Is that we can establish thatthere's an at-fault party?
With insurance Right, that'sreally importantault party with
insurance Right, that's reallyimportant.
Liability insurance.
Dr. Mark Moran (12:48):
And is there a certain time frame that would be
good for, say, someone gets anaccident, they go home, they're
trying to see if they need to doany therapies or emergency
services or go to the ER or adoctor?
Is there any time frame thatthey really need to start
considering if they want to gosee or get involved with a
lawyer to see if they're an LPcandidate or not?
Can they wait?
Will Allen (13:07):
years.
That's a great question.
It's a really, really goodquestion.
It is much better for theircase if they seek medical care
ASAP and I'll tell you why Ifthey don't insurance company
adjustersers, insurance companydefense lawyers which I was-
that start questioning whetherthey're really hurt.
(13:29):
Sure, I've the veracity, I'veseen it of like.
Dr. Mark Moran (13:33):
If you're in so much pain, why did you wait
months to come see a doctor?
Will Allen (13:36):
you're just, it's a money grab.
That's why you're here and it'sI mean people try to gut it out
.
They try to do some homeexercise, especially now
instagram.
You know you can find sciaticaand you start doing exercises
and maybe they try that.
But if you have liabilityinsurance, the other party, or
you have underinsured motoristcoverage, we can talk about if
(13:58):
you wanted to and educate somepeople about the different types
of coverages as long as there'scoverage right A lot of
different coverages under aninsurance policy.
They need to go and they need togo for themselves, of course,
to get better, but also so thatthey can be paid.
Dr. Mark Moran (14:15):
Their doctor's expenses can be paid without a
claims adjuster going nahthey're not being truthful, and
I've seen that personally withpatients that get in an accident
.
They report these pains andthen a week or two or three
later they get in anotheraccident, which really
complicates it, because nowwhich pain is caused by which
which accident?
(14:36):
Or they go to lift up somepresents that they're wrapping
for the kids and they hurt theirback, and now is the pain
coming from the accident or fromlifting up their gifts, or
they're doing yard work orwhatever else.
So I I agree with you.
I think that the sooner thebetter to get some type of
objective evaluation or datathat can't be refuted.
So either get a physicianopinion or go get some x-rays or
(14:56):
go get an urgent care opinion.
That way you say, this isobjective data.
This is what happened after myinjury and then we can see how
things go.
Will Allen (15:03):
Absolutely, yeah, well said, and for yourself, so
many people are really busy,they don't have time.
I don't want to go to a doctorright now.
See if this can better on itsown, and that's not the route to
go when you're dealing withthis situation.
Dr. Mark Moran (15:19):
For yourself.
Will Allen (15:21):
Go Get treatment.
Dr. Mark Moran (15:22):
Make sure you're okay, Because it is a fact that
you could have underlyinginjuries that are festering,
that you could be asymptomaticfor a while and they just kind
of bleed, bleed, bleed or sometype of problems and then later
it gets really bad really fast.
Absolutely, I agree with youthat you need to get, take care
of yourself, make sure you'reokay and then go get some type
of objective data in case youdecide to use an LOP or not.
(15:42):
So far I agree with youranswers.
You can't object with me.
Will Allen (15:46):
I can start objecting.
You can want it if you want.
Dr. Mark Moran (15:49):
I would love to be able to overrule an objection
from a lawyer.
Okay, and then what's the usualamount of time?
I know it varies that an LOPcase takes before the time to
accident to the time tosettlement.
Will Allen (16:04):
I have helped people with cases where they finished
their medical treatment and it'stwo weeks later that we settled
.
I had cases where I had to filea lawsuit and especially now
with COVID, the courts havealways been backed up.
(16:24):
But even gosh, we're almostfive years post-COVID right.
And the courts are still backedup with cases.
So it really really varies.
Dr. Mark Moran (16:36):
And it oftentimes depends on liability
yeah, questionable liability.
Will Allen (16:42):
And the insurance company and their lawyers are
fighting really hard and theydon't want to pay what we
believe is fair.
And next thing, you know you'reat the courthouse and you're
picking a jury and you've got totry it and that takes years to
get there.
Dr. Mark Moran (16:54):
So it's better to kind of I'm sorry, go ahead
and finish, and that takes yearsto get there, so it's better to
kind of I'm sorry, go ahead andfinish Well.
Will Allen (16:59):
So on a quick.
I would say a quick would besix weeks after medical
treatment is squared away in along time.
I mean, I've tried a case whereyou know the accident was gee
2012 and it was 2017.
Oh, it was 2017 to try the case, and those can be more
(17:24):
significant type injury cases aswell, because there's a lot
more dollars that are needed forthe client and insurance
companies don't want to paythose kind of dollars.
Dr. Mark Moran (17:35):
I'm sure that varies depending if it's a
commercial case or a privatecase.
Will Allen (17:38):
Absolutely.
Dr. Mark Moran (17:39):
Commercial case being like a business entity
versus another person walkingoff the street that hits you.
Will Allen (17:44):
That's right.
So a business would be like Idon't want to necessarily use
business name, but a supermarket.
Dr. Mark Moran (17:52):
Mark's Cookie Company, Mark's Cookie Company
LLC.
He loves oatmeal raisin andchocolate chip with nuts.
Will Allen (17:58):
I'm just saying um, yes, or 18 wheeler they have.
They've got to have bigpolicies.
They're really big, 80 000pound missiles cruising down the
road and when they're hitsomebody, usually because
they're hurting them bad, sothere's big policy limits there
right, um, and so yes, thattypically takes a little longer
(18:18):
to resolve.
Joe blow rear-ending somebodyand they've got low back pain or
neck pain and they seektreatment.
Maybe they get shots, which I'dlike to visit with you about,
because I'm sure you get a lotof that.
Microtransplant certainly saysure does it hurt?
What is that?
Um, and those typically resolvesooner, okay, rather than later
(18:41):
okay.
Dr. Mark Moran (18:43):
So I know that when I see patients lop patients
, I always try to educate themabout what to do a big, big
person, about education,knowledge is power and I say try
not to try not to let there bea lapse in service or
evaluations.
It makes it really hard ifsomeone goes to a therapist for
one or two times and then sixmonths later they go back to the
therapist and say, oh, can Icontinue my treatment?
(19:05):
Because now there's six monthsof who knows what happened.
And it's the same thing withdoctors.
If you go see a doctor and theyevaluate you and say you got to
do this plan and then theydon't come back for two or three
months, it really makes it hardto justify why aren't you
coming to see us if you'reclaiming you have all this pain.
So I encourage my patients to beactively involved with their
case and if they miss anappointment or miss an MRI or
(19:25):
miss therapy or they forgettheir medicines, you need to go
get that stuff.
It's very important, becauseit's a legal case, that you have
to say you're building apicture to show your lawyer and
the other lawyer what's going onand you want to make sure that
you're building a picture toshow your lawyer and the other
lawyer what's going on and youwant to make sure that you're
maximizing the probability ofyou winning this case and there
should be no lapses of therapiesso when you tell a patient you
(19:48):
need this type of medicaltreatment, and they only do half
of it, right?
Will Allen (19:55):
that's not good medically.
Maybe you can speak into alittle bit of that, and it's
certainly not good for the case.
Because what happens?
The insurance adjuster or thedefense lawyer says, yeah, I
mean, look, you weren't reallyhurt or that.
No wonder you're hurt.
You didn't follow doctors.
Dr. Mark Moran (20:11):
Exactly that's what they usually say is you're
not getting better becauseyou're not following your
doctor's orders.
Will Allen (20:15):
Now, of course, if they're better and they don't
need anything.
Dr. Mark Moran (20:17):
Perfect, if they're healed and their pain is
gone, then you don't need to doanything else.
But still you should go in andget a final evaluation to show
again objective data thatthey're all better, there's no
more problems.
It'll help your case.
But I agree with you thatpatients need to be actively
involved with their case andcontinue to follow up with their
doctors or therapists or taketheir medicines or see their
(20:37):
lawyers, because you don't wanta lapse of time because it
weakens the case.
Will Allen (20:41):
I agree 100% weakens their recovery time.
Dr. Mark Moran (20:45):
So what is it that you?
Will Allen (20:46):
say you need to be educated.
Use the art of war in some ofyour episodes.
Dr. Mark Moran (20:52):
If you fail to prepare, you're preparing to
fail.
Will Allen (20:54):
Yeah, I mean those kind of things hold true.
Educate yourself.
Educate yourself about medicine, what you tell your patients in
your podcast which includeseducating yourself about your
case.
Talk to your or whoever it maybe about your case, so that you
know and you're educated and canmake decisions and improve your
(21:16):
case.
Dr. Mark Moran (21:18):
Knowledge is power.
Never hesitate to ask aquestion.
We're happy to help out.
A lot of times we have a lot ofthings to do, but ask us a
question, we're happy to helpout.
I'm sure you are the same way,absolutely.
Okay, let's take a time out,okay, and now you're going to
give me two truths and a lieafter a word from our sponsors.
Will Allen (21:35):
Okay, sponsors, so go ahead.
I thought there was going to besomebody to come at you now.
Dr. Mark Moran (21:41):
No, this is it.
This is it.
I use the same joke every time.
I probably need to come up witha new joke, but anyway.
So we want to know about you.
Your clients want to know aboutyou.
They don't get a chance to talkto you very often.
It's usually probably very busy.
So two truths and a lie.
I'm going to see if I can guessyour lie based on reading you.
Will Allen (21:57):
See how good I'd be at a lawyer.
No, I like that.
I like that you tell me the lie, okay.
Dr. Mark Moran (22:02):
I mean about me.
Will Allen (22:04):
I became a lawyer.
That's a lie and I really, trulylike to help people.
It's not just about earning apaycheck Obviously, I have
family and kids to feed and acouple to put through college
but helping people in a numberof different cases Okay, and it
(22:28):
is injury case, of course thatcan run the gamut to somebody
who is a significantly burned, aburned victim, somebody who
loses a loved one in some kindof accident, I can be there to
not just help them financially,which usually they really need
health care future health care,that kind of thing.
(22:50):
But they're hurting not justphysically.
In all, cases it's mentally, inall cases it's mentally.
And to be able to walk withthem through that and minister
I'm a believer and to ministerto them and with them for their
spirit, their heart, is stuff Igenuinely love to do.
Dr. Mark Moran (23:10):
They've got to be able to trust you.
Will Allen (23:12):
Yes.
Dr. Mark Moran (23:12):
I'm saying that's a truth.
Will Allen (23:14):
That is a truth, okay.
Dr. Mark Moran (23:15):
So you've got one more truth and one more lie.
Will Allen (23:27):
I'm still trying to guess what the lie is.
I'm not good at lying, so yougot you.
You tell me what's a lie aboutme that you've kind of read okay
, I'm gonna say a truth is howabout this?
This, this is a lie, okay, okay, go ahead.
Dr. Mark Moran (23:38):
Okay, I would say you used to play baseball,
or you used to play basketballand dunk balls.
Will Allen (23:44):
Good poker face.
Good poker face.
That's it.
No, that's good, that's good.
Yeah, I think my vertical'sabout like this Anyway, it is
what it is.
Dr. Mark Moran (23:55):
It is what it is Okay.
So moving on.
And it is what it is, it iswhat it is Okay, so moving on.
I'm going to say what's yourfundamental lesson that you want
your clients to know throughthis podcast so that, moving
forward, as everyone comes inand you start getting tons of
business because everyone knowsthat you're a great lawyer and
they can trust you and you'regoing to be with them the whole
time what do you say?
(24:15):
Help yourself out by helping mewith this information.
What is it?
Will Allen (24:21):
What would I?
What do I tell my clients?
And one of the things that Itell them to help them in their
case and their family, is getmedical treatment.
Get the medical treatment thatyou need so that you can get
better or as best you canbecause you can't necessarily
(24:42):
heal certain type of injuriesbut get the medical care that
you need so that later on in thefuture you're not suffering
more than you are now, and thething I'll say about that is
what's the first thingstewardess or airline people say
when you get on a flight?
Dr. Mark Moran (24:55):
They say first put the oxygen on you and take
care of yourself so you can takecare of others.
It's very similar with theseLOP patients.
They feel like they can't comein or they don't want to come in
because they have other thingsto do.
But it's exactly the opposite.
They need to come in and gettreated so they can take care of
themselves and, consequently,they can take care of others.
That's right.
And then say people come in andthey get an LOP and they're
(25:19):
going through all kinds of stuff, but they don't have any
options to go to the surgeon forevaluation or go get injections
or they don't want to take anymedicines.
A lot of times people don'twant to take medicines.
So what are the options?
If they don't really want to goto a doctor's office, what's
the best thing for them to do?
Will Allen (25:38):
That's a great question.
I'm not a medical doctor and Isay this is where you should go
and I encourage them to seekmedical treatment, seek medical
advice, seek medical care.
And if they don't do that,there's not a whole lot that we
really can do, so that would besomething for you, well.
I'm kind of curious when theyask you why don't you?
(26:00):
What do you typically tellpatients?
They say I don't want to takethat medicine or I'm really
scared of needles.
I don't want to.
You know, I don't want aninjection.
Dr. Mark Moran (26:10):
Sure, I'm a big advocate for patients are in
control, like I know.
They come to me for help, butthey're in control.
They decide what they want orwhat they don't want, and it's
very much a conversation to findout something that we can meet
on and agree on.
If they don't want to doinjections, they don't have to
do injections.
If they don't want to trymedicines, they don't have to
try medicines.
If they don't want to see asurgeon, then they don't see a
(26:31):
surgeon.
They're very much driving theboat.
I'm basically kind of offeringthem or educating them to
options and then we'll talkabout it and see I'll answer
questions.
They say I don't want to dothat.
Okay, then let's move on toother options.
One option that I think is agood option for patients that
really don't want to domedicines or afraid of needles,
or don't want to have surgery,is the one month MD program that
we have, where patients can goonline 24, seven and educate
(26:55):
themselves about what's going on.
So it's available 24-7 and it'svery good educational material
so they can become an activeparticipant in their health and
they don't even have to leavetheir house so while they're
recovering from this injury, ifthey don't want to seek medical
attention in the ways that weusually do, they can still get
better just from understandingthe pathology.
The course talks about thecauses and the treatments and
(27:15):
the prevention of low back pain.
Will Allen (27:17):
Okay, objection Overruled, I've got to object.
I know what pathology means,but what does pathology mean?
Dr. Mark Moran (27:27):
Well, pathology means something that's not right
, Like if you have a pathologyin a body.
That means something isn'tright.
So if they're talking aboutpathologies after an accident,
something is wrong causing thepain.
Will Allen (27:37):
Herniated disc.
That's a pathology disc bulgeyeah, all those are pathologies
obviously broken bone so, andI'm sorry to interrupt you no
you're fine.
I really I didn't.
I didn't have a good objection,just objection.
You were saying then they havepathology like a herniated disc
and they don't want to dosomething that you would
(28:00):
recommend Right, and you wouldsay, and I will say, your
program really truly is good.
Dr. Mark Moran (28:06):
I haven't seen all of it, but what I have seen
is very, very informative.
Thank you, they can watch, yeah, so what they can do is they
can either go directly online toonemonthmdcom or they can talk
to the lawyer and say, hey, canyou send an LLP to me?
And then I'll just give themaccess to the course and they
can get it and it all goes underthe LLP Outstanding.
Will Allen (28:28):
And so what are a couple of things on the podcast
or the course, the course, thankyou.
That would really help a lowback somebody who has pathology.
Dr. Mark Moran (28:43):
L5 s1 look at you with your medical
terminology I know well and youknow what?
Will Allen (28:48):
I had an anatomical little model.
I did and I left it in my, inmy car.
Just I'm kind of curious, youknow.
Okay, point it out, look at it.
But if it is pathology that'simpinging, touching the nerve
root, causing some pain,generally that's treated how.
And then segue to help mebetter understand what you would
(29:15):
recommend they do or somethingthat's in your course, that you
could say this is something goodto do.
Dr. Mark Moran (29:21):
Very good question.
Sustained objection.
I'm going to answer that one.
In general, I educate mypatients.
There's four things to do forany type of pain.
It's conservative things liketherapy, acupuncture,
chiropractor, different types ofconservative things.
Then it's medicines, whether itbe prescription medicines or
non-prescription medicines.
Then it's interventions likeinjections and then it's surgery
(29:42):
.
So if you take all theseoptions that make it really hard
to understand or complex andjust break it down to those four
categories, then it's easier tounderstand what you're willing
to do and what you don't want todo.
If a patient comes in they sayI don't want to do surgery or
injections, then I know theoptions are going to be
conservative care and ormedications.
Will Allen (29:59):
They don't want the other two groups.
Dr. Mark Moran (30:01):
If they say, well, I really want to do
therapy and I'd be happy withinjections, but I don't want to
do medicines, then those are theoptions.
We'll try therapy first andthere's an algorithm.
You usually go fromconservative to medicines, to
interventions, to surgery.
You want to do things and nothave any regrets, like you don't
want to go to surgery right offand then have a problem which
almost never happens but it'spossible.
And then you say I wish I wouldhave tried other things first.
(30:22):
So I tell my patients there'salgorithms.
You follow conservative thingslike physical therapy or
chiropractor, over-the-countermedicines, rest, ice heat.
Then you try medicinesprescription medicines or
non-prescription medicines.
Then, if you want, you can tryinjection.
There are many different typesof injections to treat pain.
And then the last option as faras LLP cases would be go see a
(30:43):
surgeon just to see if you needsurgery.
A lot of times clients thinkthat if they're going to surgeon
they have to have surgery.
That's not true.
Remember, the client is theboss, the client is in control
and they should never doanything that they don't want to
do just because they're talkingto you or me or anyone else.
If they don't want to do it,they say I don't want to do that
and that's fine.
But if they go to a surgeon andthe surgeon says you're not a
(31:04):
surgical candidate, then we knowthat that's no longer an option
.
And now we have three options toreevaluate.
If they say you are a surgicalcandidate, it's still up to the
patient to determine if theywant surgery or not.
The patient or the client isthe boss.
They make the decisions andthey should never do anything
they don't want to do.
It's very simple.
The course goes through theseoptions in more detail about
(31:25):
what they can do at home as faras causes of low back pain, the
treatments that are available,which are those four things, and
then actually preventing painfrom coming back and minimizing
it in the future.
Will Allen (31:35):
Which is what?
What would be an example ofpreventing pain or minimizing it
in the future?
Dr. Mark Moran (31:40):
Very good.
Important thing I believe in iscore strength, and in the
course I say a strong core getsyou more, gets you more of
everything.
So a strong core is going tomake sure you offload stress
from your spine.
It's going to minimize yourchance of bulging discs.
It's going to make you morestable in dealing with these
pains.
So Pilates is an option.
Yoga is really good.
(32:00):
Weight loss is good.
Definitely, don't smoke.
Maintain hydration.
All these things will helpprevent pain from coming up.
Will Allen (32:07):
Do you give them exercises I haven't gotten that
far in your course or do yourecommend that they go to a
chiropractor or a physicaltherapist for those types of
exercises I give?
Dr. Mark Moran (32:17):
all the options, so I give suggestions for
exercises at home or we have iton our social media or I say if
you want to try a chiropractor,I'm happy to send you to a
chiropractor.
I'm just sort of a facilitatorthe client and the patient is
the boss.
I work for them at that pointand I'm just giving them their
options and they ask mequestions and then we will agree
(32:43):
with what's best of them, butthey have the ultimate decision.
Will Allen (32:43):
They're the boss, right?
They're the boss.
We give them options and theychoose what they want to do.
Dr. Mark Moran (32:46):
Pretty simple they're there, they're the boss,
they make the decisions okay,as we close, and tell us where
your location is, where are youroffices?
Will Allen (32:54):
so right off of Northwest military, we've got a
website.
Dr. Mark Moran (32:59):
What's the website?
Will Allen (33:01):
WillAllenLawcom.
Dr. Mark Moran (33:02):
Will Allen Law.
It's A-L-L-A-N.
Will Allen (33:04):
A-L-L-A-N and we've got a great team.
I really love my team.
We've got great lawyers, greatlegal staff.
We help a lot of people andintend to do so as long as the
good Lord will let me.
Dr. Mark Moran (33:19):
Well, I know that my patients that have seen
you have had nothing but goodthings to say about you.
Will Allen (33:23):
That's likewise.
Dr. Mark Moran (33:24):
I thank you for helping out my patients in your
cases, so I appreciate that.
Right on Northwest Military yes, right.
And then, what else can youtell us before we say goodbye?
Will Allen (33:37):
Get medical care if you need it.
Don't hesitate and don't wait.
Contact a lawyer as well.
You don't want to wait tocontact a lawyer If an adjuster
calls you an insurance adjusterand says, oh yeah, we'll pay you
this, and it's usually rightafter the wreck.
Dr. Mark Moran (33:56):
Don't do it.
Will Allen (33:57):
Seek legal help, call us.
We'd love to help you, butthere's also other lawyers who
you can call A lot of goodlawyers.
A lot of good lawyers who canhelp you make the right decision
, give you the options that wejust talked about and you can
make the decision on how youwant to proceed.
Dr. Mark Moran (34:14):
So be actively involved.
Actively involved, be an activeparticipant, not a passive
recipient in your life,absolutely.
It's the main thing in mycourses, so be actively involved
with your case, learn about thelegal process, learn about LOPs
or LOPs.
Lops Learn about Will Allen andmake sure you think he's a good
guy, or just trust me Be anactive participant and not a
(34:35):
passive recipient, and you, toowill find health and improvement
.
Thank Be an active participantand not a passive recipient, and
you, too, will find health andimprovement.
Thank you so much for coming on.
Will Allen (34:42):
Dr Mark, it's always a pleasure.
Dr. Mark Moran (34:44):
It's always good to see you.
It's just Mark, it's all good.
Okay, all right.
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