How would you like to sit down with a legendary drummer who's shared the stage with music giants like Edgar Winter, Rick Derringer, and BB King? Better yet, what if he took you on a riveting journey from his humble beginnings in Columbia, South Carolina, all the way to the competitive LA music scene? Welcome to an intimate conversation with Rick Latham, an extraordinary musician whose talent and dedication have not only won him acclaim but earned him enduring respect in the industry.
Rick allows us to peek behind the curtain, revealing his struggles, inspirations, and triumphs. He shares the transformative power of big band and soul/gospel music in his early years and gives fascinating insights into the world of drumming techniques and musical education. Hear about his daring decision to leave university to pursue his passion, a choice that catapulted his career. Rick also discusses his experiences on movie sets, playing for big names like BB King, and his encounters with the advent of drum machines.
But it doesn't stop there. Rick reflects on the significance of networking in the music biz, nods to the drummers who've shaped his career and divulges his perspective on the right drumming equipment. He takes us through the gear that crafts his signature sound, including his beloved DW 5000 pedal. Lastly, he paints a vibrant picture of his future plans for clinics and master classes, his extensive collection of drumming books and DVDs, and his deep love for diverse playing styles and genres. So, buckle up for this enlightening episode with the legendary Rick Latham!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
My guest on this week's episode of Backstage with
Chris Lee is Mr Rick Latham,rick Hales from Columbia, south
Carolina.
To say that Rick wrote the bookon drum techniques would be an
understatement.
He wrote two books on drumtechniques, one of which has
been translated into severallanguages and is still required
reading, after 43 years, at manycolleges and university music
(00:24):
programs around the world.
Rick toured with Edgar Winterfor several years and over a
decade with Drew Snowton.
Rick is currently the drummerwith Dr Mac Arnold touring the
Southeast and he has returned tohis hometown of Columbia, South
Carolina.
He joins me now on this episodeof Backstage with Chris Lee.
Thank you for taking the timeout to do this, man.
(00:44):
I really do appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Well, thanks for having me.
Thanks for having me.
It's great to see you at theHall of Fame.
Thing a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Oh, that was incredibly awesome, man.
It was great.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
A lot of heavy hitters in that room, man.
Yeah, yeah, it was great man tosee Mark, you know, and all the
guys, man you know, it's funny.
I don't know if I told you thisstory, but Mark earned it and
we met years ago when I was onthe road with Edgar Winter.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
And we had a great conversation in an airport, like
once we were kind of crossingpaths in the same airport, yeah,
and we had a chat and talkedfor about an hour and had a
great time and I haven't seenhim since.
So that was great.
I surprised him there, you know, saying hi, I went back in the
dressing room and stuff, andthen Paul Riddle- yeah.
Also, man, what a you know allthese guys, legendary you know,
(01:37):
and big influences on me.
You know my plan too.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
So really great, let's get some business out of
the way.
Where can people find out aboutyou, your music, your drum
books, your teaching?
Where can?
Where can people go to find outinformation about you?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Well, rick Lathamcom I mean, that's always a good
thing my Facebook, rick LathamFacebook page and Instagram also
, and you know they can contactme through those platforms, and
also my books are distributedworldwide, the hard copy through
Alfred, alfred publishing,which they also have Warner
(02:17):
Brothers publishing, and soAlfred is my distributor.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Right.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
And Hudson Music.
You can get downloads, digitaldownloads of the books with
audio, so, and that's got meplaying everything in the books
and stuff.
So you know that's a.
That's pretty much.
You know you can buy themonline Amazon and all that stuff
.
You know I have some too and mymusic you can.
(02:42):
Actually, I think Apple Musicwould probably be the best place
I've got.
I had a band in LA called theGroove Doctors, yeah, and you
can get.
You can buy albums, you know,through Apple Music downloads
and stuff.
So that's that's pretty much,rick Lathamcom.
So we've got all thatinformation, okay, all right?
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Well, let's start at the beginning.
Rick, where were you born?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I was born here in Columbia.
Man, I'm in Columbia, southCarolina, and my wife and I just
moved back here a couple ofyears ago.
But I started playing here, man, when I was about 12 years old
and grew up over in WestColumbia on C Avenue and got my
first set of drums when I was 12.
And man, just, you know, I waskind of just naturally drawn to
(03:31):
the drums for some reason, Idon't know why.
My, my brother I have an olderbrother four years older.
He was playing piano, right,and he was in the high school
band and stuff at that time,brooklyn Casey High School band,
still here, brooklyn Casey andtheir band at that time was like
had been state champions forlike 10 years in a row, very
(03:55):
traditional kind of militarymarching band and you know that
was kind of a big deal to be inthe marching band.
So I actually started studyingmusic and you know junior high
school band and stuff like that.
So my brother, you know, kindof got me interested in music
and my family always had musicin the house, man, my parents
(04:17):
had, you know, at that time theywould listen to like old big
band records and you know theMills Brothers and you know
things like that, tommy Dorseyand all those great things.
But it was great man.
And you know, just growing upin Columbia too, man, I was grew
up with a lot of like listeningto kind of soul and gospel
(04:39):
music.
At that time it's really funny,man, I was really kind of drawn
to that kind of music, justgroove kind of stuff, you know,
and that's you know, startedplaying and then started
studying.
You know, high school band wenton to go to college and study
music and stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
You mentioned the big band, you mentioned listening
to the big band.
You had one of the firstdrummers that I can remember
noticing was Gene Krupa Right.
You know that was one thatreally kind of you know, growing
up.
The biggest name I heard indrums because you know, was
(05:21):
probably Buddy Rich.
You know he was on Carson allthe time Exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
And that was a big inspiration to me too.
Right, and when Buddy was goingto be on Carson, you know they
would announce it.
You know earlier in the day,you know later that, earlier
that week, and my parents wouldlet me stay up to watch, to
watch Buddy.
And, uh, yeah, Gene Krupa,Buddy, Rich, Manjo Morello,
those were the guys.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Well, you know, carson, carson himself was a
drummer, so he loves Buddy Richon.
You know, that was that was hisfavorites too, you know and
Carson was a decent drummer.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I saw him play several, several videos of him
playing several episodes of theshow.
He would get out and play fromtime to time too.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Uh huh, yeah, he was always a decent drummer, yeah,
and later I became friends withEd Shalmerson who played?
In that tonight show band forso many years.
Yes, so all those guys.
Yeah, seeing all those guys manon TV really influenced me
quite a bit, you know.
And then seeing local guys, youknow, at local high school
dances and stuff like thataround here.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
So you got involved with the, with the high school
band um, and did you?
You said you had drum set with12, did you take lessons, did
you?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
you know, I didn't take drum set lessons.
I was taking, you know, ofcourse, in band.
You were playing mostly, mostlysnare drum.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
And uh and um, you know bass, drum and cymbals and
a little bit of bells and stufflike that in the high school
band, but I never really tooklessons.
I took some lessons from one ofthe band directors just for
reading, yeah, like you know,reading notation, but it was
snare drum type stuff.
Um, I never really studied drumset until I went to graduate
(07:00):
school, man, so I just startedplaying kind of self-taught,
listening to records and stufflike that.
But I was, uh, I will say I wasa very good like snare drum,
like rudimental player.
I was always very interested inthe rudiments and, like I said,
brooklyn Casey, at that time wehad to play all these great uh
(07:21):
marches, you know, all the Suzamarches and stuff like that,
john Philip Suza and um, all thegreat military marches, and I
had to learn, like all therudiments and stuff.
So you know, and that uh, atthat time too, man, it was just
uh, you know, that was all therewas really to learn how to play
drums, uh, you know rudimentalstuff, uh, hand exercises, and
(07:45):
there weren't really I can'tremember any drum set teachers
around at that time.
Right, you know, until I wentto college I started getting
into more of the drum set stuffand, um, I played traditional
grip because that's the waybuddy played and all the great
drummers at that time, right.
So it was.
It was interesting, man, theway it kind of fell together and
(08:07):
then I started really studyingmore techniques and had more
musical kind of things when Iwent to school.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
And notice in some videos you were using uh,
traditional grip, um, and do you, do you switch?
Do you uh?
Depends depending on whatyou're playing, or do you always
do traditional?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
You know I always feel better man with traditional
.
It just is something that matchgrip just never feels right to
me, even though you know,growing up in when I went to
school and playing in orchestrasand playing marimba and stuff
like that, of course you playmatch grip and, uh, timpani and
stuff like that.
I used to play a lot of timpaniand orchestras at school and I
(08:46):
used to.
It was teaching Maree, but whenI went to graduate school I had
a great teacher at undergradschool, east Carolina University
in Greenville, north Carolina.
But um, yeah, match grip, juston the drums man just doesn't
just never felt right to me.
You know it's funny, it's funnytraditional grip, it's odd I
noticed I went to see um sticks.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
They played here in Greenville uh back last year.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, todd Silkerman Sure, he's a great dad.
Yeah, he's a friend of mine.
I know Todd very well he is.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
He uses that traditional grip and that kind
of amazed me, for you know theyare pretty much a power rock
band, so most of your power rockdrummers use that match grip.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
That's right, man.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
You don't see many rock guys, especially heavy guys
, play traditional grip, and hemakes it look so easy though
he's yeah, Well, well, man, youknow, and I played it with Edgar
too man we were throwing,throwing down pretty good with
Edgar winner.
So Frank Frankenstein with withtraditional grip, All right.
Right on, right on, yeah itworked, it worked, and free ride
(09:49):
too.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Oh man, I just oh man all those great tunes, man, you
know, I, I, I love playingthose tunes with Edgar.
That was really something, man,and a real uh special.
You know time in in my careerthat, uh, you know playing all
those great and we played withso many great artists too.
I mean we played with RickDerringer and we played with REO
and we played with Jethro Tolland Grand Funk, railroad
(10:13):
Steppenwolf you know, you knowall the, all the bands I grew up
with.
I hear those guys are good.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah I think, yeah, Ithink they've, uh, I think
they'll, they'll do okay,they'll do okay.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
They'll go far in this business.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Or they've gone far, yeah.
Yeah, it's a?
Uh University of North Texas.
That's where you went and youstudied music there and, uh, you
got a master's degree.
And let me tell you, did younot go for the PhD?
I mean, are you anunderachiever or what?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Well, yeah, well, well, actually, actually, in all
honesty, one.
I didn't finish my degree.
I don't really have the degree,but I was very close to
finishing but I went on the road.
I went on the road with theElvis impersonator.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
And, and they hated me at school because I kind of
left and at the end of my youknow my I had I got a
scholarship and was teachingthere on a teaching
assistantship.
Yeah, and uh, because I hadsuch great background from
Harold Jones at East Carolinaand, um, I was able to get a
scholarship and go to thatschool, man, which was really
(11:20):
great.
It's still a great school,university of North Texas, they
call it Right, it was calledNorth Texas.
When I went, north Texas Stateand um, man, I was teaching
mallets and snare drum toundergraduates while I was
working on a master's and I wasvery close to finishing, man,
I've had this opportunity to goon the road and, you know, I
(11:40):
just, you know, wanted to be aplayer.
I was.
I was also getting a, um, uh,performance degree, which a lot
of people get music ad degrees,so they become the teacher or
something like that, and I loveteaching and I enjoy it, still
love teaching.
But, um, I always knew I wantedto be a performer, you know.
So I got the performance degreeand, um, you know, don't regret
(12:05):
that at all but, um, and that'swhat I had in undergraduate
school too, yeah, undergraduateperformance.
But, um, yeah, man.
Um, you know, I left school andkind of you know I was teaching
an ensemble too and my privatelessons and stuff.
And you know, uh, bob Chitromo,who was the head of the
department at that time, waskind of pissed for a while and I
(12:27):
kind of left him hanging alittle bit.
But I still have great memoriesand still keep in touch with my
teachers and actually Jim Hall,one of my drum set teachers.
I never really studied drum setuntil I went to North Texas and
, uh, jim Paul lives here inColumbia.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
He when I left North.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
When I left North Texas, Jim Hall came to Columbia
and got the job at USC and he'sretired now, but he was here
for 26 years at USC and he andhis wife, Linda's a real estate
agent.
She helped us find thisbeautiful house here.
So we've kept in touch allthose years and I keep in touch.
Ron Fink was another one of myteachers, Henry Oxtail, all the
(13:07):
teachers and all all the greatstudents that were there.
You know I was a grad student,but there were, you know, Greg
Bissonette was there at thattime, great drummer and, uh, you
know, playing with Ringo'sthing now, but Greg, you know,
played with David Lee Roth andthey've done a bunch of stuff.
Um, but there were a lot ofgreat drummers there at that
time.
You know, a lot, of, a lot ofgreat players came out of that
(13:30):
school, Wow, so it was great.
It was great man, yeah, but I,uh, the masters was enough.
I can't imagine.
I can't imagine, you know, someof my buddies, man, go back to
school and get doctors and stuff, and I'm like man, I could.
I just couldn't do it now.
I couldn't go back to schooland study now, man, my grades in
(13:51):
school were decent, you know,in high school and stuff, but
when I went to college, man, mygrades were great because it was
all music stuff.
I mean, I still took academicthings, but my great, my grades
were really good.
You know, studying what Iwanted to study, that was, that
was your passion.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah, yeah, I hear you, but things might might have
a little more retention now.
One of my buddies here, manthat I grew up I had my first
band was here in Columbia andthe guys still live here that
were in the band and, uh, one ofthose guys is going back to
school.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
So what band was that ?
Give the guys a shot.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Okay, okay, man.
Yeah, it was.
The band, was the name of theband, was the hypercinctious
amoeba.
Okay Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
And Bobby Bobby right .
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Right, we played pop, we played school dances and
stuff.
Man, bobby Loric was playingbass and Mitch Shaw was playing
guitar and there was anotherguitarist, billy Derenbacher,
who has passed away, but um, butuh, yeah, man, those uh, bobby
(15:03):
and uh, it's still around, mitchand Bobby are still around.
Wow, I still see them, man, wego eat barbecue every once in a
while and we actually came.
They came over to the studio,man, and we played one day and
we played a bunch of those old,too bubblegum kind of stuff.
(15:23):
Yeah, they're really reallygreat, really great.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
So what took you out to LA?
Well?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
um, when I, when I finished school, man, I went on
the road with this Elvis guy andwe lived.
I lived in Vegas for a couple ofyears.
He was great man.
Bobby Young was a thing and weplayed Vegas, we played Canada,
all over the United States itwas.
It was great man.
I mean it had a trailer and youknow all our stuff you know had
horns and two chip singersbackground and the whole whole
(15:55):
Elvis thing.
Man, he had all the costumesand jumpsuits.
I mean he was really seriousman.
He was from Wichita Falls Ithink, texas, and um, so anyway,
uh, I came off the road, uhwith him and lived in Dallas for
a little while and that's whenI actually finished my book, the
(16:18):
advanced horn studies book.
And then, um, you know, andthen you know, just at that time
my career was kind of taken offfrom the book and people were
kind of knowing me a little bit,who I was and stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
What year did you write that book?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I wrote the book in 1980.
And it was published.
I published it myself, man.
I printed it.
I wrote every note in there byhand.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
And it's still being used by drum teachers today.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
It's still being used everywhere, at schools all
around the world, and, uh, youknow, china, it's used in Korea,
it's used in Japan, uh, the UK,australia, it's.
It's great.
They used it at USC here,university of South Carolina.
Uh, or a required text.
The Navy School of Music usedit required text.
(17:10):
It was used in it for a while,berkeley, you know.
So, man, crazy again, again.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
You're an underachiever.
What's wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, well, I was really driven man to write the
book, and that may, we'll getinto that later how that
happened.
But anyway, back to how I movedout.
You know at that time, man,either it was kind of New York
or LA.
Yeah, you know, that was wouldmake your career.
Yes, you know, and, and I was,you know I'm, I'm a R&B kind of
(17:40):
pop drummer.
I mean that's a commercialdrummer I'm not.
I love playing jazz and playedin the lab band at North Texas
and all that stuff.
I'm a good big band player.
But I at that time I justthought New York was more of a
jazz scene, yeah, and LA wasmore of a recording pop scene,
right.
So I chose LA Move there.
(18:02):
In 1984, april Fool's Day, Idrove out from From Dallas in my
blue Ford, he kind of line van,with my drums and a tux, that's
all, that was it.
And so you know, luckily, man,I met some great friends and
(18:23):
things kind of clicked, and youknow that's.
I mean, that's a long story.
I don't know how deep you wantto go into that.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Sometimes you move into a new area and I've heard
that in different territories atdifferent times, have been very
protective about their marketand well, it was a little bit
like that and of course LA washuge and at that time I mean
there's so many guys.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
But I was, you know, lucky because the book had been
out for four years my advancedphone studies book and, like I
said, it really hit it a greattime, the right place, at the
right time, you know.
And and I became friends, likeI said, with Louis Belson and Ed
Shaughnessy and all those guysI had sent the book to.
I had, you know, it's funny man, back then you would get
(19:06):
people's phone numbers, you know, through other contacts and
stuff.
And you know I sent the book toLouis and Ed and Colin Bailey
and you know all the great JimChapin, who's another great
author, player, teacher, and,and these guys wrote some
incredible things, man, aboutthe book and really kind of
(19:29):
boosted it with theirendorsement.
So, you know, other drummersstarted, kind of all Rick
Latham's here.
Man, he's got this great bookout, you know, blah, blah, blah.
So it was a positive in Someways.
You know that I was kind of notjust some other guy, you know,
they just moved to town.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
How did you so?
How did you come to theattention of Quincy Jones?
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Well, that's an interesting story, man.
Just another thing right placeat the right time.
I was at the Union one day inLA and At that time you would
have to, you used to have to goto the Union to pick up your
check so they would get there,get their portion of it, which
(20:11):
was cool, and they'rewithholding the kind of thing.
So I was in line at the Unionman and there was another buddy
John Gates was his name and hewas.
He had gone to North Texas.
He was a little bit older thanme and he said yeah.
Hey, rick, man, how you doing?
I heard you move the town, blah, blah, blah.
I said, yeah, man, it's great,everything's cool and loving.
(20:33):
It had only been there forreally a month or two, I think,
right.
And and John said, well, listen, man, I'm leaving town, I'm
going on tour with somebody andI I wanted, I need somebody to
cover this gig, wanted if you'dlike to do it.
And I said, well, what is it?
He said it's the dancerehearsals for a movie, and
(20:54):
that's about all he said.
But it was with a greatwell-known pianist Companies,
and Devon person was this guy'sname, and at that time, you know
, kind of dance movies werereally big.
There's kind of break, breakdance movies and stuff.
So he said, manage dancerehearsals With the dancers, you
(21:15):
drums and piano and you have tokind of play these, make up
these things that they dance to,you know.
So it was almost like youactually write is called
sketching and you actually kindof write the piano guy Devon
would come up with some, youknow they would say, okay, we
need some action thing like this, it sounds like this and kind
(21:38):
of like this.
He would just kind of grooveand he would just play some off
the top of his head and I would,and I would play drums and they
would start writing the dancenumbers you know.
Finish, though, so man it would.
and then I found out that QuincyJones was producing the music
and Sidney Portier he wasexecutive producer of the movie.
(22:00):
So, man, it just.
You know that that was, thatwas a great, great opportunity
and a great adventure for me,man Early, and and so when you
get a gig like that, everybodyhears about it, of course.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
How often have you thanked your friend for getting
you that?
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Believe me, man, me anytime, anytime.
So what was what's really funnyabout that man?
And I told a story to somebodyjust the other day.
But you know, at that time drummachines were kind of coming on
the scene and replacing a lotof drummers and people, usually
in the studios, and you knowthey we went in of what you call
pre-record.
(22:38):
We would do a basic track totunes before a movie and then
they bring in the orchestrationand you know, yeah, horns and
strings and all this stuff.
But we got to do the pre-recordto a lot of the stuff and stuff
we had written.
So I did the pre-records andthen they say, okay, thank you
very much.
You know you get, you know yourunion, you know you make good
(23:00):
money on that stuff.
Yeah, first we were gettingpaid for those rehearsals, with
the first for a couple of months, like every day, you know, five
days a week, so, and playingwith beautiful dancers.
You know I was single at thetime, so you know we're watching
these girls dance and play thedrums, what.
What could be wrong with that?
So and so, man, we, they did apre-record.
(23:25):
And then a couple weeks later Igot a phone call and they said
hey, rick, you need to come backin.
They want you to do somethingon that pre-record, and I didn't
really know what it was exactly.
So I went down to the studioand they had tried to replace
something.
I played like a funky, one ofmy kind of cool grooves that the
dancers knew and liked, andthey danced to it, and when they
(23:49):
tried to cut the movie, theyhad Recreated this groove with a
drum machine.
Yeah and, and the dancer saidwhat happened to that stuff?
Rick played what we can't wecan't dance to this, and so that
was great man.
So I actually replaced the drummachine on that Particular
thing, man.
So that was kind of turningyour tables on the drum.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Take funny story.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Exactly, it felt really good, man.
It felt kind of cool, like,okay, that's cool, you know.
And it was cool that they, youknow, they noticed it enough.
You know, the dancers, I mean,they were in there.
They were in there on asoundstage cutting the scene and
all of a sudden they had kindof Reconstructed it and they
said what the fuck?
You know, what is this?
(24:37):
Where's?
Where's that cool thing thatRick was playing?
so they called me and I got togo in and do it man, and it was
you know they go all the greatstudios Westlake in LA and all
that stuff and it was justreally really one of my first
big, Big opportunities, whichwas great.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
And did you?
Did you do more for QuincyJones productions?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
No, no, no, just did that one movie, did that one
movie, but I stayed in touch,you know, and you know met some
other guys that did some otherthings for that I worked for and
stuff, you know some otherproducers and stuff like that.
So you know, when it's coupleof the engineers called me for
some things, so yeah, that wasgreat.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
So I'm looking at your work history that you have
listed up on your Facebook pageand that was mid-80s You're in
LA.
You're gigging around any othermajor things you worked on
during that time.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Before we'll get to, before we get to Edgar winner,
because I know that was in the90s, right, right, well, yeah,
actually it's funny because Ihad played just before I moved
to LA.
I played with BB King for thefirst time and that was that was
.
That was another.
That was a great, great thingand Went on to play a couple of
(25:50):
gigs.
I never toured with BB, but Iplayed several gigs and the
first one Was at a, like a Namshow.
They used to have the Nam show,you know big music Friends show
, yeah, they used to.
They used to have the summershow in Chicago, right, and the
winter show in LA.
So the last one I think it wasthe very last one they had in
(26:13):
Chicago.
Man, I was playing Pearl drumsat the time.
I'm now playing DW.
I'm playing DW for 40 somethingyears, but I was endorsing that
was one of my first endorserspearl, right and, and pearl and
Gibson were they're Co-mingledsomehow, you know a parent
company or something.
Pearl and Gibson were togetherand of course, bb King.
(26:36):
Lucille was a Gibson 335 orwhatever, I don't know 335, but
you know he's Lucille has totalk, but, um, but so Pearl and
Gibson put on this bigger bitman and Asked me to play with.
Bb was playing when he was, ofcourse, the big name, but it was
.
Then they put a band togetherwith Neil Sean for Jerry, yeah,
(27:00):
bb King, okay, playing guitars.
Ralph Armstrong, a great bassplayer, to play with John look
on to you and bass players, no,ralph.
Or from Detroit, he was aanother Gibson guy and then
Larry London, pearl and I.
So we double-drunk with BB King.
So that was, yeah, that wasincredible.
(27:20):
That was incredible.
So that was at the NAMM showand then we played several other
concerts like that, you know,for the companies.
So so that was, that was great,man.
That was a Really a thrill toplay those.
You know, the thrill has gone.
Yeah, all those great shufflesand stuff would be be, and I
(27:40):
kind of kept in touch with someof the guys in that band.
And Then Tony Coleman, who wasthe last drummer, would be.
They played with him for a longtime.
Tony and I are good friends too, so but just, you know that you
, just you know playing thosekind of gigs, man, it's just
networking.
Yeah, you know you need to meetother people from that and you
(28:02):
know by the time.
So by the time, those were twomajor things that I had kind of
under my belt, you know, bb King.
Some people heard about that andthen also, when I was living in
Dallas, chuck Rainey had movedthere.
The great bass player playedwith Aretha and plays on a lot
of those Steeler Dan great tunes.
I played with Bernard Purdy ona lot of stuff, yeah, and and I
(28:25):
played in Chuck's band in DallasFor a couple of years.
So when I moved to LA, you knowI had worked with Chuck Rainey,
which people knew about.
The book was out, I had workedwith BB King, so those were, you
know, pretty good calling cards, yeah.
And then all of a sudden I getthat thing with Quincy producing
(28:46):
the music with that, you know.
So, man, it just startedfalling together.
You know again, right place atthe right time looks good and as
my yeah, yeah and being able todeliver, you know.
That's another thing too.
It's not all about you know who, you know.
You got to be able to, you know, deliver you know and be
punctual beyond time and, youknow, have good equipment.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Well, you know, I watched the documentary Hired
Guns and and right every singleone of them said you better be
on your A game, you better beable to bring it, because
there's a guy on the hallwaythat's ready.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Exactly exactly, exactly, man, it's a.
It's a funny story becausethere were some auditions that I
did before I got Edgers did.
There were some auditions thatI did around town.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
And.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
I remember, man, I went in one audition one time
and it was, I think, lou Grahamwas putting together a new band,
you know, and a great singer,you know, one of the voices,
voices of rock, you know.
And so I went in, man, they atsome reason, I think I just kind
of bulldozed my way in the lastday of the auditions or
(29:55):
something, and I played and theywere like really complimentary
and like really like kind offreaked out because they had
already chosen somebody, oh man,and they had already told a guy
.
But I went in somehow and gotin there and played with the
guys and it was great, man.
But you know, so it happens.
But yeah, like you said,there's always somebody, man,
(30:16):
that's ready, you know, to do it.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Before we get to Edgar, I want to ask you and I
told you I was going to ask youthis question, so maybe you had
time to think about it and maybeyou know already your Mount
Rushmore of drummers, the fourand I know it's hard to pick, I
mean it really is but fourdrummers that you really admire
for either their style, theirtechnique or what they've
achieved.
Four drummers in your opinionthis should be on the drummer
(30:42):
Mount Rushmore.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Okay, well, this is mine, you know, and there's so
many.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Yes, I know it's all subjective.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
So many, but I mean there is a lot we can talk about
some other guys too, but BuddyRich, steve Gadd, tony Williams
and the fourth is really hard.
I'm trying to think of who Iwould say would be the fourth
(31:11):
one, and it would probably bebetween, you know, mike Clark
and Harvey Mason.
So you know that to me, I meanthose influence me.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
And see those guys.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
You know so many drummers just through the
networking, a lot of drummers.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
You know names people never heard of.
Now, everybody knows Neil Pert,his legend.
He's one of the greatest rockdrummers ever and you know a lot
of drummers will default to himand they'll default to John
Bonham Right, well, bonham too.
Man see, that's another.
Again it's so hard to choose.
It's like trying to pick yourfavorite breath of air, you know
.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
But yeah, and the reason I picked them is because
they were, you know, influentialto me, I mean, and to drummers,
I think, across the board,right, I mean, as is, you know,
bonham, and you know all thoseguys, man, there are so many,
(32:10):
you know, there's, you know,even you know, I mean, I love
the James game, you know, I loveJimmy Fox and it's a great
drummer.
A lot of people don't know, youknow, and I love him.
Nigel Olson man, play somegreat stuff with Elton John.
I mean, you know, it's just,you know, and it is hard, man,
(32:32):
it's very difficult, you know,and then you talk about, then
you talk about, you know, likeJoe Morello, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Roy Haines.
Do I have to pick just four?
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Come on yeah right, mount Rushmore might have about
20 guys.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Well, now, we're gonna go on to Edgar winner.
I was going back throughsomething today and I and I
keyed in.
I looked up Edgar's name and Ihad forgotten that Edgar played
saxophone on my Be All IndoleFavorite album of all time and
that was the Bad Out of HellMeatloaf Bad Out of Hell.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
He played sax he played saxophone on that album.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
He's a great saxophone player, man.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Oh, he's tremendous.
He's a great sax player man.
He played, you know, he playedsax, organ, piano and sings and
could do all of that stuffincredibly well.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
I had forgotten.
You know Max Weinberg playeddrums on three of the tracks and
I had forgotten that.
Willie Wilcox, I didn't knowthat.
I didn't even know that MaxWeinberg was the drummer on Bad
Out of Hell.
You took the words right out ofmy mouth and Paradise.
So, Paradise by the dashboardlights.
Willie Wilcox played on theother tracks Right right, you're
(33:43):
the great drummer and I didn'tknow that.
I had forgotten that.
You know and I looked at youknow, todd Rundgren produced,
played all the guitar parts.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Sure sure, we played with Todd.
We played with Todd a coupletimes with Edgar, that was great
.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Oh man, that has had to be awesome, man, really.
So how did you come to theattention of Edgar Winter?
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Well, it's funny, man .
I'll tell you what happened.
I didn't even have audition forEdgar, because Carmine of Pease
recommended me.
Another great drummer yeah yeah, another great guy too that
influenced the bottom.
You know, I mean really, reallycrazy.
Carmine's a great, great friendof mine, man, and we have a lot
(34:21):
of mutual respect because youknow he wrote his realistic rock
book, was one of the first rockdrum books and it's still a
great book and I used to use itwith my students, you know, when
I was teaching before I wrotemy book and Carmine and I became
really good friends, man, andCarmine had that gig played with
Edgar for a short time and herecommended me, man, you know.
(34:46):
So I went in.
I didn't really audition but Idid go in and play, you know,
with Edgar.
One day We'd get, you know,called me to a studio but you
know I got the gig and man.
Edgar and I really got alonggreat.
I mean, he's a great drummertoo, yeah.
I mean he plays Tim Bolly's onFrankenstein.
But he's got a good sense oftime, man, and he's a good.
(35:08):
He knows drums and he likesdrums.
So you know, we really gotalong great, man.
He liked my drumming a lot andit was just a great, great
experience.
But that's how I got the gig,you know.
And it was funny.
Couple years later Carmine andI were talking.
You know Carmine's from NewYork and he's like hey, what the
fuck, hey you rich, hey.
(35:31):
So.
So we were talking and he saidhey, man, what the fuck you
making more money with Edgarthan I am, than I did, you know.
So that was funny, we werelaughing, you know joking, but
it was funny.
So but that was that's again,man networking.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah, yeah, now, edgar produced.
He produced a couple albums too.
I looked, he produced Open Fire, ronnie Montrose.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah, we played with Ronnie a couple yeah, too bad
man, you know he's bad too, butit was great.
We yeah, we played with allthose guys.
Man.
Like I said, rick Derringer, weeven played man.
We played one New Year's Eve inBeaumont, where he's from, and
also Janice Joplin is fromBeaumont.
I don't know if people knowthat, but they kind of grew up
(36:17):
together, but we played inBeaumont on a New Year's Eve and
Edgar's mom came to the gig.
That was great.
And Jerry LaCrosse sang man,the guy from White Trash, you
know.
Oh well, yeah, yeah, so, and theWhite Trash horns used to play
with us every once in a while.
Yeah, that was killer.
We're doing those things, man.
(36:37):
The White Trash record iskiller.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
And you got to just go around the world with Edgar.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
But we did, man.
We went to Japan several times,all over the United States,
Canada.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
I posted a video you guys playing the Montrose Jazz
Festival.
I saw that.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah, thanks for posting.
Oh yeah, I'm trying to getpeople excited about the podcast
.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Well, it was.
That was a great experience,man, the night we played.
Man, check this out that thesame stage was.
We played.
It wasn't in this order Iforget the order, right, but REM
played that night on the samestage.
Bb played that night with hisbig band, david Sanborn and Gary
(37:24):
Moore.
Oh wow Blues guitar yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
So that was crazy.
And we were all standing in thesame hotel and then we were all
down in the bar drinking andstuff.
Man, that was killer.
And Claude Nobbs man, he'spassed away too, but he was the
host man of all those greatyears and they still have it.
The Montrose Jazz Festival.
(37:49):
Claude Nobbs had a big chateauthere, man, he would invite us
up for parties and stuff.
It was just a really incredible, very special thing.
And on tour it runs for about amonth.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
It's like all month long, so they have every kind,
and it used to be just jazzstuff, but now they've opened it
up to reach a wider audience.
Yeah, which is cool.
Which is cool.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
You mentioned everybody staying in the same
hotel and there's a lot ofpartying going on.
It's rock and roll, and when Iwas younger, I did my share of
partying and all the other stufftoo.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
But how?
Speaker 1 (38:30):
did you handle yourself, man?
How did you get through all ofthat?
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Well, we got pretty crazy at times, man, and that
was the 90s, so it was a littlecrazy late 80s and 90s and stuff
.
So yeah, I mean there wasdefinitely some illicit things
going around, but I stopped allthat stuff years ago and was
able to just kind of coldturkeys, stop doing all the bad
(38:55):
stuff.
It seemed like from thebeginning you were serious about
your work writing the books andstudying Exactly, and I always
have been man and I'd like tohave a good time, but I'm not
stupid and that could bedebatable Depending on you, if
(39:15):
you ask my wife.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Well, it depends on the company and the time of day.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
But no.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
I still like to have a drink and stuff, but I don't
drink that much.
Man and I just I'd like to takecare of business and I've
always been that way.
And that's one thing, man, thatmy parents taught me.
I got from them.
My dad was a hardworking guyman and he worked for Winn Dixie
his whole life.
I don't know how many peopleremember Winn Dixie stores.
It was a big chain man backwhen I was a kid and he went to
(39:49):
work man and worked his way upfrom a bag boy at the company
man, a stock boy, to anexecutive with a company.
Wow.
So you know, we worked for thecompany for 45 years, man Crazy.
And you know just my mom man, Ihad a great.
You know my parents love myparents.
They're both past but you know,taught me some good.
(40:10):
You know ethics and morals and,yeah, I always wanted to take
care, man.
You know, and it's important Ithink that's another thing too
that you know all these greatguys that you've talked about, I
mean they've had maybe doubtswith you know, trouble times and
stuff, but they all take careof business and the ones that
really last learn how to takecare, you know.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
You know, I notice you have your own signature
drumsticks with a pro mark, promark, yeah, and was that a
really cool moment in your lifewhen you saw that on a drumstick
?
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah, it really was, man.
I had a great relationship withthe owner, the first real owner
of pro mark, Herb Brockstein,who created the company and
Herbs passed but his son, maury,took over the company and they
were based in Houston, texas.
The factory's still there thepro mark factory and then the
(41:09):
Dario which is the big stringcompany.
They bought pro mark severalyears ago.
So, yeah, so it was.
You know, it was interesting,man, to have that stick.
No-transcript, something that'svery special to me.
Man, I had a great.
You know I designed a stick.
It's just really good feeling,natural, well-balanced stick.
(41:34):
You know, I mean, everybody'sgot a different kind of personal
feeling for drumsticks, butpeople like it.
It's one of the best-sellingsticks.
And yeah, man, to getendorsements, you know that was
something at that time.
I've been playing pro-markmanfor 30 years at least.
I've had that stick and I'vebeen with DW for 40-something
(41:54):
years.
I've been with Istanbul Mehmetfor 40-something years.
You know Evans and Pro-Mark forlike 30.
So I'm not the guy that jumpsaround and you know, I got those
endorsements when I was youngand so they really mean a lot to
me.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
So Istanbul is your symbols, right.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Istanbul Mehmet.
Uh-huh, yeah, there's a coupledifferent companies.
Sorry, sorry to interrupt, butI would like to just a lot of
people get confused.
There's an Istanbul companythat, actually and there's an
Istanbul Agap.
Now, agap and Mehmet weretogether at one time, it was
just Istanbul.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
And.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Agap, another gentleman.
They were partners and he diedin a boating accident some years
ago.
So his son took over theIstanbul Agap.
So they split a little bit andbecame Istanbul Agap, now Mehmet
, who is the original guy, thereal symbol smith.
He kept his part, so it'scalled Istanbul Mehmet, so a
(42:58):
Turkish guy still made inIstanbul.
And so I'd like todifferentiate and really say
Istanbul Mehmet, because there'sIstanbul company and then
there's the Istanbul Agap, soIstanbul Mehmet, yeah, but he
man, he's probably the greatestliving symbol maker.
He actually made the famousKays when Zildan was in Istanbul
(43:22):
, when the Zildan factory was inIstanbul.
He made the early Kays Zildanswhen he was like 11 years old.
So he's the real guy.
Everybody else has learned fromhim or someone else and they
try to recreate that stuff, butto me, man, istanbul Mehmet has
(43:43):
a real special sound.
And I really I love him.
We've got a great relationship.
All the people that workedthere have been the factory
several times at Istanbul and Ijust love the symbols and all
those companies.
Like I said, I got greatrelationships with DW Evans and
Pro March Really great.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Yeah, you mentioned Evans drum heads.
They've been around forever.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Right.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
You have a preferred foot pedal?
That's always a big thing withdrummers.
Is there a preferred pedal?
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Well, I used to DW 5000 pedals, the first or the
turbo ones.
They make a lot of differentones.
They make one called theaccelerator and they make a
bunch of different things, butthe 5000 regular, 5000 turbo is
my pedal.
That's the one I use all thetime.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
I ask a lot of drummers sometimes how many
drums sets you have, or thequestion a lot of times the one
that gets me sometimes is toolow.
I've got four drum sets but Ihave 142 snares.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Right, right.
Well, todd Todd, todd Sucermantalking about sticks drum.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Oh, I've seen his room.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
You know he's got yeah, he's got so many snare
drums.
Yeah, that's crazy, it's reallycrazy, but that's cool.
I mean he likes to collect andI like to use my stuff.
You know, I have probably 10snare drums and I have six drum
kits, beautiful DW drum kits andI know people go, oh, that's a
(45:19):
lot, but I have two in Europe.
I've got three here and I'vegot one more in Germany.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
And people don't understand too that different
drum kits with sizes and kicks,they make different sounds.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Exactly in different woods.
I have different size drums andstuff like that.
So, yeah, it's all you know.
I don't try to abuse that and Idon't ask for a bunch of free
stuff.
But it is nice, man, to havefull endorsements and I get
everything free, which is nice.
But I don't abuse that and Icollect cymbals.
(45:59):
I have probably over 100cymbals.
I love cymbals man, and I've gotsome old cymbals and some that
I made with a very special guyman Roberto Spizzicchino was a
very famous Italian guy that Imade.
He's known among drummers.
He was kind of a jazz guy andmade these great cymbals and I
(46:22):
made some cymbals with him onetime.
He became a friend and I've gotsome of those cymbals that we
made back in the 90s in Italy.
But yeah, I just love cymbals.
I love the sound.
I have a lot of different ridecymbals and different crash
cymbals, hi hats and differentthings.
(46:43):
I've got a set I like to usewith Mac with this playing blues
.
I've got a set I like to usewith Edgar.
Edgar had a favorite snare drum.
Did he like the mine that Iwould always take on the road?
You know it was a DW drum.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Different snares get different sounds.
They're deeper.
The wood's different.
They're different sizes.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
So all that stuff is sopersonal, you know and it's you
know it just the way it feels.
You know the way it sounds andthe way it feels.
You get used to that stuff.
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
So you like to use something.
You like to use something thatfeels good and it's comfortable,
you know, like a pair of shoes,yeah, so you left.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
You left Edgar Winter after touring extensively for
several years in 2002.
Is that correct?
You were still in LA.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Yeah, yeah, still in LA, and then for a couple years
I didn't really go on the road,but I was teaching a lot.
And then I got to the gig withJuice Newton.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
I was in L5.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
And yeah, and the way I got that was through the
sound man that worked for Edgarwas now working for Juice.
So again, I did an audition.
They had a, you know, theyasked me to come in and play one
day and I played and I thinkthe next day we went out, went
out on the road.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
you know Well, she has one of the most powerful
voices that I've ever heard.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
She's a great singer man and Juice was really still
sounding, really really great.
She still sounds great, youknow.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
When I first heard the sweetest thing I've ever
known and then you know, angelof the Morning and then, of
course, queen of Hearts, but thesweetest thing I ever known I
just I could not fathom thepower behind that woman's voice.
It was incredible.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
Yeah Well, she always would hit that high note man at
the end of the tune every night.
Man, I'd never, never watch it.
You know, she was reallyincredible and a great band
Actually, otha Young, that wrotesome of those tunes.
He was still in the band when Ijoined the band so yeah, he and
(48:52):
Juice wrote that Angel of theMorning.
So really incredible.
So yeah, playing those kind oftunes, man, even like Edgar, you
know, playing all those greattunes, juice playing, it's
really a special feeling.
You know, when you play behindan artist, just like you know,
like anybody playing with any,you know, any younger guy that
gets a gig with a, like one oftheir idol bands you know, it's
(49:17):
incredible man, just to playthose legendary songs, man, and
you know and play.
you know you don't need to playa bunch of new stuff.
I mean you need to kind of payhomage to the original.
Yeah, so you know, it's notlike you have to copy it exactly
, but there's certain fills andstuff like that that are fun to
(49:37):
play.
And it made the tune.
You know what made it famous.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
I explain that to people sometimes.
It's sometimes certain thingsabout a certain song is like
comfort food.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
You expect to hear it and expect to hear it that way,
yeah you wouldn't play in theair tonight and not go, you
wouldn't go shoot, get that, putthat.
No, you know.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
That opening to Billy Joel that Liberty came up with.
You don't play.
You know you don't change that.
You try to play it exactly.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Man, that's funny man , because you know I called him.
I don't live through it verywell man.
And I called him.
We played.
We played the hard rock up inBristol, virginia.
There's a new hard rock upthere.
We play it every couple ofweeks with Matt, so I was coming
back and that tune.
(50:36):
What's the matter with theclone?
Speaker 1 (50:40):
that you were Still rock and roll to me.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Yeah, okay, okay, it's got that one fill.
Yeah, I called him.
I picked up the.
It was playing it the car onthe way back I picked it up.
I said that is the best fillever in a tune.
I said did you just think ofthat on the spot and play 16th
against that shuffle man thatyou know?
(51:03):
And he was like laughing andstuff and I said that is the
best fill ever.
Yeah, but yeah, he played somegreat stuff too.
Very identifiable man.
He, I think, made that band.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
Oh yeah, I mean that band had a certain feel and a
certain groove to it and itstarts right there with him,
Sure.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
And he's a heavy player, man.
He's a hard hitter, you know.
But you know Edgar's stuff too,man, frankenstein, those drum
things, you know.
That's a, you know you want toplay that kind of like the
original.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
Well, you have to honor that.
You know, you really do have tohonor that.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
Because it could be disappointing.
You go to a concert and youdon't hear that.
Like I said, that comfort thingYou've always heard and you
know it's there and the drummerthat does it, you know it's just
, it's great.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
Sure, sure, that's just like.
You know a lot of the stuff too, man, with you know Dary's
Danny Serifing, the originalChicago drummer, another great
buddy of mine, man, and I lovedhis stuff and I was so shocked
and sad when you know he left aband and stuff.
I mean because his sound too,man, that was Chicago, that
(52:08):
those drum parts man make mesmile and all that stuff.
That's you know, that's Danny,you know he made that stuff.
And then it's in and BloodSweat and Tears in Bobby
Columbia, another great, greatdrummer that became a record
executive.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
Yeah, in between touring with you, snoot, and in
between touring with EdgarWynnard, you're giving lessons
Right Now.
Did you take beginner studentsall the way to advanced?
Speaker 2 (52:35):
I did for a short time but I always had more
advanced.
You know, intermediate toadvanced guys.
Right and and during and duringthat time too, sorry to
interrupt.
No, During that time too Iwrote my second book in 1990.
I wrote that contemporary drumset technique which was more of
a like linear excuse me, linearkind of drumming.
(52:59):
So so that you know, I wasalways still thinking about
teaching and writing and sharingideas and stuff.
But yeah, I I had, you know,several, you know, beginning
students, but mostly guys thatwere playing, you know, and a
lot of guys had used the book.
So they wanted to kind of takelessons with the guidebook, the
(53:19):
book and stuff.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
So, when you're talking to drummers, what
philosophies or what, what doyou try to and and buy in them?
What do you try to get them tounderstand about drumming and
the techniques that they'reusing and the feel and the?
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Yeah, feel is the main thing.
I mean I, I do work with a lotof guys on technique because,
like I said, I'm I'm lucky andfortunate and I don't mean to
sound arrogant, but I havereally good technique, but I
learned it from really greatteachers, right.
So you know, a lot of drummersdon't have very good technique
and some drummers have terribletechnique but a great feel, and
(53:54):
some drummers have, you know,great technique and no feel.
So so the thing I try to teach,you know it's a kind of happy
medium, but feel is the mainthing, man, to have a good feel
when you're playing.
Right, you know, you can, youcan be.
There's a certain amount ofsloppiness that some things need
(54:14):
a little bit.
You know something that can'tbe too perfect, yeah, and.
But the feel you know and soundis something else.
I don't think.
I think a lot of drummers don'tunderstand how to get a good
sound from the drums.
You know tuning your drums, notonly, but how you hit the drum.
You know there's a certain like.
I'm not a guy man, there's alot of guys and I did a lot of
(54:37):
this when I was in school, likeplaying in supper clubs and
playing brushes and peopleclanging glasses and eating and
shit while you're playing.
I hate that.
I hate that man.
I like to play concerts, youknow, and I know I'm probably
burning a lot of bridges thatpeople hear this, you know, and
I like to play a jazz gig everyonce in a while, but it's you
(54:58):
know, I'm a hard hitter too.
You know, I'm not a brush guy.
You know I mean, I can playbrushes and I played a lot of
brushes in my lifetime.
But you know you have to learnhow to you know and play for the
music.
You know, it's not all about adrum solo, it's about supporting
the song.
You know, and that's what wasgreat about live, for instance,
(55:19):
you know, with Billy Joel.
So you know, I just try toteach guys to be musical and
have you know good technique, orwork on their technique at
least, and but have a good feeland a good sound on the drums,
because I think a lot, of a lotof guys too that play things
like supper club gigs and stuff,they don't hit the drums.
(55:39):
You know, they're used toplaying very light.
So if they had to play in frontof 75,000 people, that's a
whole different story.
You know, yeah, you see a lotof people.
You know a lot of drummers,especially like Facebook and
Instagram.
They'll post their drum solo,you know, and they're playing in
the club with, like you know,10 people.
(56:01):
Yeah, nobody, I don't know man,nobody.
I don't even want to hear adrum solo.
I'm not a solo drummer man.
I play when I have to man to dosomething.
But if there's not a big, bigcrowd or something I don't want
to play.
Nobody's interested in a drumsolo.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
Yeah, I mean that's a that's always been a concert
thing to me, you know.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
Right, exactly, exactly.
But it's interesting.
But, like you said, you know, Imean, yeah, just, you know, I
like the guys, you know, andguys tend to really do get it.
You know, when I talk to them,guys that have been playing, you
know, for a long time, you knowthey'll come back to me, said
man, after a few lessons.
They said, man, my band sounds,I sound better and feel better,
(56:44):
so that's great.
Oh, yeah, you know, that's thebest, that's the best compliment
you can have, you know, as ateacher and for those guys you
know, sometimes you get them tounderstand this.
Speaker 1 (56:54):
Sometimes, if you drag the beat, if you're just
behind it, you know it suregives a whole different feel to
the song, sure man, you could beon top or lay back.
Yeah, a lot of a lot of Motownartists were.
That was a big thing, you know,and I listened to a lot of the
muscle shows, music and thatkind of thing.
Sure Dragon, just slightlybehind the beat man to give it a
(57:16):
whole different feel.
Speaker 2 (57:16):
That's what I yeah, that's what I grew up listening
to.
Like I said, man, I listened toa lot of black R&B, gospel, you
know, and that stuff.
You know real R&B at that time,you know from the 60s, and
stuff that's that's laid back,yeah, and some of that muscle
shows, like the muscle showstuff, man, some of that stuff
(57:37):
is real sloppy but it soundsgreat because it all worked
together.
You know, all those guys werein the same groove, you know.
Speaker 1 (57:46):
I listened to the Beach Boys over and over and
over again throughout my youthand that's how I discovered Hal.
Blaine yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:58):
Yeah, I started to say Hal man.
I went to one of his birthdayparties.
Oh wow, he was a trip man.
He had some great stuff.
Speaker 1 (58:06):
Oh, I'll bet.
Speaker 2 (58:07):
And a great guy man, but think about all the stuff he
did.
Yeah, very different man.
Like you said Beach Boys, sonnyand Cher, the Monkeys.
Speaker 1 (58:16):
Come on.
I mean, they're playing.
They're playing on everybody'salbums and they're the most
unknown people in the world.
Speaker 2 (58:24):
Exactly the Wrecking Crew.
You know I mean.
Speaker 1 (58:26):
Blaine Campbell did a stint in there for a while, and
of course Carol Kay on bass andTommy Tedesco on guitar and
just heavy hitter, just some ofthe greatest musicians that
you've never heard of.
Speaker 2 (58:39):
Exactly, and the muscle shows guys too.
Speaker 1 (58:42):
Well, and all the motown artists, all the James
and all those guys that played,yeah, yeah, you know they never
got credit on the albums, never.
Speaker 2 (58:51):
Right, Another great player too, man, James Gadson.
Yes, One of my all-timefavorite in Bernard, of course,
in Bernard Purdy.
But Gadson, you know, playedall that great Bill Withers
stuff, man, and played a bunchof other stuff too.
Man, he played, you know, heplayed a lot of stuff that
people don't know.
You know Well and that's true.
Speaker 1 (59:12):
You know talking about all these unknown session
musicians.
That's true in every genre, too, because Nashville is full of
some of the best players in theworld that you've never heard of
.
Sure, Sure and.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
I actually love country music, man, I love to do
you know a lot of country.
People think country is goingthrough commercial and stuff.
But man, for a drummer and aguitar player, country music is
slamming.
It's like Aiden's Rock, youknow, I love it.
Yeah, I really like all thatstuff.
Speaker 1 (59:38):
They've changed a lot of the dynamic of country and
they're gearing it toward ayounger audience and they're
gearing it toward concert typemusic.
You know now, and I'm a I lovetraditional stuff, so I'm
listening to guys Drake,milligan, I'm loving the stuff
this kid's doing.
Speaker 2 (59:54):
It's got a new traditional.
I like, yeah, I liketraditional country too man.
I don't dislike it, but I likethe new stuff too and I think
there's room for everything.
Like you said, it's a differentaudience.
Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
You're touring with juice Newton through the 2014,
and that's just a few years back.
Now you said, and I'm notmistaken, you started another
band after that.
Was there a band?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
Yeah, well, I had, yeah, I had a band in LA called
the groove Right Right, and thatwas a really great band, man,
it had some great players.
It man, albert Wing, wasplaying sax, alto and tenor sax.
Albert played with FrankZappler Right, a lot of sax
(01:00:38):
players know who Albert is.
Ken Tussing was playingtrombone, played with Ray
Charles to it with Ray Charlesfor a very long time.
He was in a Navy band also andstuff, but the sessions in LA.
Matt Garty, great guitar playerthat actually is from Dallas,
that I knew in Dallas was livingin LA.
(01:00:58):
And Vail Johnson, great bassplayer, has been playing with
Kenny G for about 30 years, Ithink.
Another great, he lives inNashville now but played with a
lot of other like jazz artistsand stuff to great bass player.
And Bob Luna, keyboard playerthat was played with Dionne
(01:01:19):
Warwick, and so all these guyswere, you know, la guys and I
knew them and had played gigswith them around town.
So we put it, get band together, sort of like.
You remember the jazz crusaders, you know the crusaders would
stick.
Hooper play drums, joe Sampleplayed keyboards.
They had a band, you know, thatwas kind of built around
trombone and tenor so that waskind of the it was more funky
(01:01:43):
crusaders kind of sound.
And we did a live record fromthe baked potato famous club in
LA.
We have a live record that youcan hear online.
Yeah, great, really great band.
So yeah, we played the bakedpotato about once a month, you
know for several years.
So that was a really great band.
(01:02:05):
And yeah, that was the last bandI had before I moved here.
I actually was living in, Ilived in Italy for five years.
I had an apartment, I wasworking a lot in Italy with some
producers from Germany andItaly, and I had a trio over
there with some great guys too,and it was just called, a lathe
(01:02:26):
from Ruggiero.
Robin was a guitar player namedNicola Sarato, so lathe from
Robin Sarato, and it was a trioplaying all original music that
we played in Poland and Franceand, you know, around Italy and
Croatia, and you know it wasgreat man.
(01:02:47):
So that was a more instrumentalkind of project, as was the
Grusebacher's too.
So, and then I moved here, man,in two years ago, you know in
2001.
Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Well, they say you can never go home.
Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
but you did, well I had no intention of it's funny,
I had no intention of evermoving back here, man.
But during COVID I was whenthat first started I was in
Italy and it hit really hard inItaly.
So I came back to LA, gave upmy apartment in Italy, came back
to LA and my wife and I, youknow, during those three years,
(01:03:23):
man, that was really bad for youknow, the whole music business
as well as every business justabout.
So we were thinking you knowwhat's what's happening and what
happens when COVID's over and Imight go back to Europe.
You know, the East Coast is sixhours closer, you know, than LA
.
So you know, and you know, lawas getting, you know the
(01:03:45):
homeless thing was kind ofgetting big and expensive.
Man, la is expensive.
I love LA, man, don't get mewrong, I really love it.
But you know, I started talkingthen to Jim again, my teacher
that was retired back here,linda, his wife, the real estate
agent.
So you know they said, man,now's a good time to buy and
there's a couple places, maybe.
(01:04:06):
So we started, my wife and Isaid, you know, maybe we'll move
.
You know, move back there, man.
It's like I said, the EastCoast, which is great.
I see some, see some seasons.
You know that I didn't see in LA, which is again great, but you
know, and plus man, we'respending about two thirds less
every month and we have abeautiful house with, you know,
(01:04:30):
a big piece of land and you knowit's just beautiful.
Man, I got my studio here.
So you know, once you've madethese connections and stuff like
we've been talking about, youcould live anywhere.
You know, and still do the samething.
I still do a lot of tracks.
I'm teaching here.
I still teach online as well,but, you know, teaching people
all over the world and teachinglive lessons again, and and
(01:04:54):
doing tracks for people, that's.
And now they dig with Matt youknow, my car.
You know, I got that a coupleyears ago.
Speaker 1 (01:05:01):
So how did that come about?
Playing with dr Mack?
Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Well, my man is such a great guy I was actually I.
We started a band with someguys.
I met here Mike Frost, greatbass player.
He's from New York originallybut was living in Aiken when I
first moved here.
So we every it's funny man,because Mike's a great player,
jazz guy, you know, new York guy, grew up playing all time all
(01:05:29):
kind of music and you know, andwhen I moved here, I mean people
kind of knew my background andyou know they said, oh man, you
need to just meet Mike Frost,he's the guy that you know.
You guys were playing greattogether.
So we met, you know, and playedand kind of started a band with
Austin.
(01:05:49):
Yeah, plays with Mac too, sothat's kind of how.
So we started this band andplayed some games, you know, and
then Mike, I think firstThrough Austin, got the gig with
Mac and then, and thensomething happened with the
drummer.
They were looking for a newdrummer and then so naturally,
you know, we've been playingtogether.
So they say, well, what aboutRick?
(01:06:11):
Man, let's see if Rick wants todo it.
So I've been doing that now forabout two years.
Yeah, it's great man, it's agreat band.
Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
You guys sounded great at the at the awards
ceremony.
You only got to play.
Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
Yeah, right, but, but yeah, but yeah.
It's a great band.
Man and Mac is incredible.
Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
I did not realize all of Mac's history when I started
, you know, getting to know himover the last few years and and
all the people that he's playedwith and you know they're
starting to look at all that.
And I talked to Mac at theawards.
I said, you know, yeah, and hewants to be on the show.
I got a schedule to time to gethim on here because I can't.
Imagine what the stories thatthis man can tell.
Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
He's got some great stories, you know, and he lived
in LA for a little while, yeah,yeah.
So so we've got some Thingsthat we know from LA together.
You know, that's funny I meanwe weren't there at the same
time but he knows a lot ofplaces that were still there
when I was there, stuff and wetalked about that.
So, yeah, he's done some greatstuff, man.
(01:07:13):
He's a great guy, man it justturned 81 man and he's great on
stage.
You know, he gets around asgood as anybody.
Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
And still wants to play, you know yeah I, we've
been so busy man.
Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
It's incredible.
Everybody can't.
It's the best gig there is.
Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Yeah, well, since we do have a storm coming in the
area, let's go ahead and try towrap this up with a couple of
questions that I always want toask everybody.
When you get in the car andyou're driving somewhere, what
are you listening to?
I?
Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
Listen to country radio.
Man, I do.
That's what I listen to.
Sometimes I'll take mixes frommy studio.
Sure, I'll make a CD and playit in the car.
Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
You know, I still have a CD player, like a feed
even when you, when you'restreaming television or you're
watching TV, what do you like towatch?
Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
You know I watch a lot of movies.
I don't.
I don't like really a lot of TVshows.
Yeah, I like movies.
I love my Amazon.
Prime is Amazon and Netflix.
Yeah, so you know I do that.
I like the news man, I do.
I like to watch the news and Ilike local news.
(01:08:25):
Yeah, I like to watch the newsevery day at six o'clock or
whatever.
Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Yeah, I like.
I like to know what's going onin town.
Yeah yeah, last question if you, if you had not been a musician
, any fathom of an idea of whatyou would have been, what you I
would have been yeah, yeah,probably like a graphic artist
or something, because that wasan art.
Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
I was an art minor in school, so so I know a little
bit about art and design and youknow I like that.
I like art also very much, somaybe you know maybe something
in art.
Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
You know, I really thought you were a cool guy
before, but I really like you awhole lot more now.
Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
That's what I do for a living.
Thanks, man, I told you earlier, I know just enough to be
dangerous with all this Websitedesign stuff.
And man, I've got a very goodfriend of mine that designed my
advanced funk studies covered ayellow book.
Yeah, a lot of people call it,call it the yellow book.
She's a great graphic artist,heather Dickley, in In Dallas,
(01:09:31):
and she does everything for thecity and stuff.
Yeah, she makes all thebillboards and she's got a huge
company now.
But at the time she was marriedto a friend of mine and she we
designed this cover, man, andit's become like a life of its
own.
It's the yellow book.
Everybody knows and so that's.
But I tell her, I'll call herand ask her once in a while some
(01:09:53):
question about Photoshop.
She'll start laughing, you know, like she says don't, don't
even go there.
Yeah, you know well, now I know,Just enough to be dangerous,
you know okay, well, okay, Ilied.
Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
last question Um, okay, okay, what's it?
What's in your future, next twoyears, down the road, what's
what's gonna be happening withyou?
Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
well, more with Matt and I and I'm starting to, you
know people asking about clinicsand stuff again.
I used to do a lot of clinicsbefore Covid and stuff and
master classes and stuff, sothat's coming back a little bit.
So I want to get a little moreactive with that, you know, and
Working here in the studio, I'mworking with some producers in
(01:10:34):
Italy and Germany and do a lotof tracks for those guys and you
know, just make more music,play more drums.
Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
Well, one of the lines I'm gonna use when
promoting is it's that you, youwrote the book on drumming and
in fact you wrote two books ondrumming.
Plus you got DVDs all about thegroove.
That's a DVD set, is that right?
Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
It's funny you can get actually the 25th
anniversary.
The book is the advanced homestudies is 43 years old, wow,
and for the 25th anniversary Iput both of the videos, the
advanced home studies andcontemporary drum set techniques
, together With great interviewswith Louis Belson and Ed
Shaughnessy and some of the lastthings they did on camera.
(01:11:15):
Really, it's really great.
People should watch those justto see those guys and the all
about the groove is something Idid with drum channel.
He got you and that's.
That's more of just my kind ofphilosophy and concepts of
linear drumming.
So it's totally different thanBoth books, but it's got a lot
(01:11:38):
of my ideas.
You know, kind of any.
So so there's a, there's a 25thanniversary anniversary of the
books, which has both DVDs ofthe books on there, and it's
only about the books, with thenew stuff, new footage with head
and Louis, and then the, theDVD, the Three DVD set, all
(01:12:00):
about the groove, and it alsohas 20 play along tracks on it.
Oh, but I play the tracks witha band in the video and then you
can play.
I downloaded tracks withoutdrums, oh, okay, well, so, so,
yeah, so it's a.
It's a great package.
Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
And all that's available at Rick Latham calm
correct.
Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
Rick Latham, calm and you can.
There's links to it.
Drum channel actually has that,but Alfred has the two books.
Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
Rick, thanks again.
Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
Oh, thank you, man.
I really appreciate it.
Really appreciate it, chris,and you know, let's, let's try
to hook up sometime and I'm sureI'll see you upstate again
sometime soon.
Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
Backstage with Chris Lee is a production of MB media,
copyright 2023.
Be sure to like, follow andshare our posts on social media.
You can download backstage withChris Lee wherever you get your
podcasts and, of course, youcan find us at backstage with
Chris Lee com.
My guest on this week's episode of Backstage with
Chris Lee is Mr Rick Latham,rick Hales from Columbia, south
Carolina.
To say that Rick wrote the bookon drum techniques would be an
understatement.
He wrote two books on drumtechniques, one of which has
been translated into severallanguages and is still required
reading, after 43 years, at manycolleges and university music
(00:24):
programs around the world.
Rick toured with Edgar Winterfor several years and over a
decade with Drew Snowton.
Rick is currently the drummerwith Dr Mac Arnold touring the
Southeast and he has returned tohis hometown of Columbia, South
Carolina.
He joins me now on this episodeof Backstage with Chris Lee.
Thank you for taking the timeout to do this, man.
(00:44):
I really do appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Well, thanks for having me.
Thanks for having me.
It's great to see you at theHall of Fame.
Thing a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Oh, that was incredibly awesome, man.
It was great.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
A lot of heavy hitters in that room, man.
Yeah, yeah, it was great man tosee Mark, you know, and all the
guys, man you know, it's funny.
I don't know if I told you thisstory, but Mark earned it and
we met years ago when I was onthe road with Edgar Winter.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
And we had a great conversation in an airport, like
once we were kind of crossingpaths in the same airport, yeah,
and we had a chat and talkedfor about an hour and had a
great time and I haven't seenhim since.
So that was great.
I surprised him there, you know, saying hi, I went back in the
dressing room and stuff, andthen Paul Riddle- yeah.
Also, man, what a you know allthese guys, legendary you know,
(01:37):
and big influences on me.
You know my plan too.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
So really great, let's get some business out of
the way.
Where can people find out aboutyou, your music, your drum
books, your teaching?
Where can?
Where can people go to find outinformation about you?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Well, rick Lathamcom I mean, that's always a good
thing my Facebook, rick LathamFacebook page and Instagram also
, and you know they can contactme through those platforms, and
also my books are distributedworldwide, the hard copy through
Alfred, alfred publishing,which they also have Warner
(02:17):
Brothers publishing, and soAlfred is my distributor.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Right.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
And Hudson Music.
You can get downloads, digitaldownloads of the books with
audio, so, and that's got meplaying everything in the books
and stuff.
So you know that's a.
That's pretty much.
You know you can buy themonline Amazon and all that stuff
.
You know I have some too and mymusic you can.
(02:42):
Actually, I think Apple Musicwould probably be the best place
I've got.
I had a band in LA called theGroove Doctors, yeah, and you
can get.
You can buy albums, you know,through Apple Music downloads
and stuff.
So that's that's pretty much,rick Lathamcom.
So we've got all thatinformation, okay, all right?
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Well, let's start at the beginning.
Rick, where were you born?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I was born here in Columbia.
Man, I'm in Columbia, southCarolina, and my wife and I just
moved back here a couple ofyears ago.
But I started playing here, man, when I was about 12 years old
and grew up over in WestColumbia on C Avenue and got my
first set of drums when I was 12.
And man, just, you know, I waskind of just naturally drawn to
(03:31):
the drums for some reason, Idon't know why.
My, my brother I have an olderbrother four years older.
He was playing piano, right,and he was in the high school
band and stuff at that time,brooklyn Casey High School band,
still here, brooklyn Casey andtheir band at that time was like
had been state champions forlike 10 years in a row, very
(03:55):
traditional kind of militarymarching band and you know that
was kind of a big deal to be inthe marching band.
So I actually started studyingmusic and you know junior high
school band and stuff like that.
So my brother, you know, kindof got me interested in music
and my family always had musicin the house, man, my parents
(04:17):
had, you know, at that time theywould listen to like old big
band records and you know theMills Brothers and you know
things like that, tommy Dorseyand all those great things.
But it was great man.
And you know, just growing upin Columbia too, man, I was grew
up with a lot of like listeningto kind of soul and gospel
(04:39):
music.
At that time it's really funny,man, I was really kind of drawn
to that kind of music, justgroove kind of stuff, you know,
and that's you know, startedplaying and then started
studying.
You know, high school band wenton to go to college and study
music and stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
You mentioned the big band, you mentioned listening
to the big band.
You had one of the firstdrummers that I can remember
noticing was Gene Krupa Right.
You know that was one thatreally kind of you know, growing
up.
The biggest name I heard indrums because you know, was
(05:21):
probably Buddy Rich.
You know he was on Carson allthe time Exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
And that was a big inspiration to me too.
Right, and when Buddy was goingto be on Carson, you know they
would announce it.
You know earlier in the day,you know later that, earlier
that week, and my parents wouldlet me stay up to watch, to
watch Buddy.
And, uh, yeah, Gene Krupa,Buddy, Rich, Manjo Morello,
those were the guys.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Well, you know, carson, carson himself was a
drummer, so he loves Buddy Richon.
You know, that was that was hisfavorites too, you know and
Carson was a decent drummer.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I saw him play several, several videos of him
playing several episodes of theshow.
He would get out and play fromtime to time too.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Uh huh, yeah, he was always a decent drummer, yeah,
and later I became friends withEd Shalmerson who played?
In that tonight show band forso many years.
Yes, so all those guys.
Yeah, seeing all those guys manon TV really influenced me
quite a bit, you know.
And then seeing local guys, youknow, at local high school
dances and stuff like thataround here.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
So you got involved with the, with the high school
band um, and did you?
You said you had drum set with12, did you take lessons, did
you?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
you know, I didn't take drum set lessons.
I was taking, you know, ofcourse, in band.
You were playing mostly, mostlysnare drum.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
And uh and um, you know bass, drum and cymbals and
a little bit of bells and stufflike that in the high school
band, but I never really tooklessons.
I took some lessons from one ofthe band directors just for
reading, yeah, like you know,reading notation, but it was
snare drum type stuff.
Um, I never really studied drumset until I went to graduate
(07:00):
school, man, so I just startedplaying kind of self-taught,
listening to records and stufflike that.
But I was, uh, I will say I wasa very good like snare drum,
like rudimental player.
I was always very interested inthe rudiments and, like I said,
brooklyn Casey, at that time wehad to play all these great uh
(07:21):
marches, you know, all the Suzamarches and stuff like that,
john Philip Suza and um, all thegreat military marches, and I
had to learn, like all therudiments and stuff.
So you know, and that uh, atthat time too, man, it was just
uh, you know, that was all therewas really to learn how to play
drums, uh, you know rudimentalstuff, uh, hand exercises, and
(07:45):
there weren't really I can'tremember any drum set teachers
around at that time.
Right, you know, until I wentto college I started getting
into more of the drum set stuffand, um, I played traditional
grip because that's the waybuddy played and all the great
drummers at that time, right.
So it was.
It was interesting, man, theway it kind of fell together and
(08:07):
then I started really studyingmore techniques and had more
musical kind of things when Iwent to school.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
And notice in some videos you were using uh,
traditional grip, um, and do you, do you switch?
Do you uh?
Depends depending on whatyou're playing, or do you always
do traditional?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
You know I always feel better man with traditional
.
It just is something that matchgrip just never feels right to
me, even though you know,growing up in when I went to
school and playing in orchestrasand playing marimba and stuff
like that, of course you playmatch grip and, uh, timpani and
stuff like that.
I used to play a lot of timpaniand orchestras at school and I
(08:46):
used to.
It was teaching Maree, but whenI went to graduate school I had
a great teacher at undergradschool, east Carolina University
in Greenville, north Carolina.
But um, yeah, match grip, juston the drums man just doesn't
just never felt right to me.
You know it's funny, it's funnytraditional grip, it's odd I
noticed I went to see um sticks.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
They played here in Greenville uh back last year.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, todd Silkerman Sure, he's a great dad.
Yeah, he's a friend of mine.
I know Todd very well he is.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
He uses that traditional grip and that kind
of amazed me, for you know theyare pretty much a power rock
band, so most of your power rockdrummers use that match grip.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
That's right, man.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
You don't see many rock guys, especially heavy guys
, play traditional grip, and hemakes it look so easy though
he's yeah, Well, well, man, youknow, and I played it with Edgar
too man we were throwing,throwing down pretty good with
Edgar winner.
So Frank Frankenstein with withtraditional grip, All right.
Right on, right on, yeah itworked, it worked, and free ride
(09:49):
too.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Oh man, I just oh man all those great tunes, man, you
know, I, I, I love playingthose tunes with Edgar.
That was really something, man,and a real uh special.
You know time in in my careerthat, uh, you know playing all
those great and we played withso many great artists too.
I mean we played with RickDerringer and we played with REO
and we played with Jethro Tolland Grand Funk, railroad
(10:13):
Steppenwolf you know, you knowall the, all the bands I grew up
with.
I hear those guys are good.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah I think, yeah, Ithink they've, uh, I think
they'll, they'll do okay,they'll do okay.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
They'll go far in this business.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Or they've gone far, yeah.
Yeah, it's a?
Uh University of North Texas.
That's where you went and youstudied music there and, uh, you
got a master's degree.
And let me tell you, did younot go for the PhD?
I mean, are you anunderachiever or what?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Well, yeah, well, well, actually, actually, in all
honesty, one.
I didn't finish my degree.
I don't really have the degree,but I was very close to
finishing but I went on the road.
I went on the road with theElvis impersonator.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
And, and they hated me at school because I kind of
left and at the end of my youknow my I had I got a
scholarship and was teachingthere on a teaching
assistantship.
Yeah, and uh, because I hadsuch great background from
Harold Jones at East Carolinaand, um, I was able to get a
scholarship and go to thatschool, man, which was really
(11:20):
great.
It's still a great school,university of North Texas, they
call it Right, it was calledNorth Texas.
When I went, north Texas Stateand um, man, I was teaching
mallets and snare drum toundergraduates while I was
working on a master's and I wasvery close to finishing, man,
I've had this opportunity to goon the road and, you know, I
(11:40):
just, you know, wanted to be aplayer.
I was.
I was also getting a, um, uh,performance degree, which a lot
of people get music ad degrees,so they become the teacher or
something like that, and I loveteaching and I enjoy it, still
love teaching.
But, um, I always knew I wantedto be a performer, you know.
So I got the performance degreeand, um, you know, don't regret
(12:05):
that at all but, um, and that'swhat I had in undergraduate
school too, yeah, undergraduateperformance.
But, um, yeah, man.
Um, you know, I left school andkind of you know I was teaching
an ensemble too and my privatelessons and stuff.
And you know, uh, bob Chitromo,who was the head of the
department at that time, waskind of pissed for a while and I
(12:27):
kind of left him hanging alittle bit.
But I still have great memoriesand still keep in touch with my
teachers and actually Jim Hall,one of my drum set teachers.
I never really studied drum setuntil I went to North Texas and
, uh, jim Paul lives here inColumbia.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
He when I left North.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
When I left North Texas, Jim Hall came to Columbia
and got the job at USC and he'sretired now, but he was here
for 26 years at USC and he andhis wife, Linda's a real estate
agent.
She helped us find thisbeautiful house here.
So we've kept in touch allthose years and I keep in touch.
Ron Fink was another one of myteachers, Henry Oxtail, all the
(13:07):
teachers and all all the greatstudents that were there.
You know I was a grad student,but there were, you know, Greg
Bissonette was there at thattime, great drummer and, uh, you
know, playing with Ringo'sthing now, but Greg, you know,
played with David Lee Roth andthey've done a bunch of stuff.
Um, but there were a lot ofgreat drummers there at that
time.
You know, a lot, of, a lot ofgreat players came out of that
(13:30):
school, Wow, so it was great.
It was great man, yeah, but I,uh, the masters was enough.
I can't imagine.
I can't imagine, you know, someof my buddies, man, go back to
school and get doctors and stuff, and I'm like man, I could.
I just couldn't do it now.
I couldn't go back to schooland study now, man, my grades in
(13:51):
school were decent, you know,in high school and stuff, but
when I went to college, man, mygrades were great because it was
all music stuff.
I mean, I still took academicthings, but my great, my grades
were really good.
You know, studying what Iwanted to study, that was, that
was your passion.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah, yeah, I hear you, but things might might have
a little more retention now.
One of my buddies here, manthat I grew up I had my first
band was here in Columbia andthe guys still live here that
were in the band and, uh, one ofthose guys is going back to
school.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
So what band was that ?
Give the guys a shot.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Okay, okay, man.
Yeah, it was.
The band, was the name of theband, was the hypercinctious
amoeba.
Okay Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
And Bobby Bobby right .
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Right, we played pop, we played school dances and
stuff.
Man, bobby Loric was playingbass and Mitch Shaw was playing
guitar and there was anotherguitarist, billy Derenbacher,
who has passed away, but um, butuh, yeah, man, those uh, bobby
(15:03):
and uh, it's still around, mitchand Bobby are still around.
Wow, I still see them, man, wego eat barbecue every once in a
while and we actually came.
They came over to the studio,man, and we played one day and
we played a bunch of those old,too bubblegum kind of stuff.
(15:23):
Yeah, they're really reallygreat, really great.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
So what took you out to LA?
Well?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
um, when I, when I finished school, man, I went on
the road with this Elvis guy andwe lived.
I lived in Vegas for a couple ofyears.
He was great man.
Bobby Young was a thing and weplayed Vegas, we played Canada,
all over the United States itwas.
It was great man.
I mean it had a trailer and youknow all our stuff you know had
horns and two chip singersbackground and the whole whole
(15:55):
Elvis thing.
Man, he had all the costumesand jumpsuits.
I mean he was really seriousman.
He was from Wichita Falls Ithink, texas, and um, so anyway,
uh, I came off the road, uhwith him and lived in Dallas for
a little while and that's whenI actually finished my book, the
(16:18):
advanced horn studies book.
And then, um, you know, andthen you know, just at that time
my career was kind of taken offfrom the book and people were
kind of knowing me a little bit,who I was and stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
What year did you write that book?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I wrote the book in 1980.
And it was published.
I published it myself, man.
I printed it.
I wrote every note in there byhand.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
And it's still being used by drum teachers today.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
It's still being used everywhere, at schools all
around the world, and, uh, youknow, china, it's used in Korea,
it's used in Japan, uh, the UK,australia, it's.
It's great.
They used it at USC here,university of South Carolina.
Uh, or a required text.
The Navy School of Music usedit required text.
(17:10):
It was used in it for a while,berkeley, you know.
So, man, crazy again, again.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
You're an underachiever.
What's wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, well, I was really driven man to write the
book, and that may, we'll getinto that later how that
happened.
But anyway, back to how I movedout.
You know at that time, man,either it was kind of New York
or LA.
Yeah, you know, that was wouldmake your career.
Yes, you know, and, and I was,you know I'm, I'm a R&B kind of
(17:40):
pop drummer.
I mean that's a commercialdrummer I'm not.
I love playing jazz and playedin the lab band at North Texas
and all that stuff.
I'm a good big band player.
But I at that time I justthought New York was more of a
jazz scene, yeah, and LA wasmore of a recording pop scene,
right.
So I chose LA Move there.
(18:02):
In 1984, april Fool's Day, Idrove out from From Dallas in my
blue Ford, he kind of line van,with my drums and a tux, that's
all, that was it.
And so you know, luckily, man,I met some great friends and
(18:23):
things kind of clicked, and youknow that's.
I mean, that's a long story.
I don't know how deep you wantto go into that.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Sometimes you move into a new area and I've heard
that in different territories atdifferent times, have been very
protective about their marketand well, it was a little bit
like that and of course LA washuge and at that time I mean
there's so many guys.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
But I was, you know, lucky because the book had been
out for four years my advancedphone studies book and, like I
said, it really hit it a greattime, the right place, at the
right time, you know.
And and I became friends, likeI said, with Louis Belson and Ed
Shaughnessy and all those guysI had sent the book to.
I had, you know, it's funny man, back then you would get
(19:06):
people's phone numbers, you know, through other contacts and
stuff.
And you know I sent the book toLouis and Ed and Colin Bailey
and you know all the great JimChapin, who's another great
author, player, teacher, and,and these guys wrote some
incredible things, man, aboutthe book and really kind of
(19:29):
boosted it with theirendorsement.
So, you know, other drummersstarted, kind of all Rick
Latham's here.
Man, he's got this great bookout, you know, blah, blah, blah.
So it was a positive in Someways.
You know that I was kind of notjust some other guy, you know,
they just moved to town.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
How did you so?
How did you come to theattention of Quincy Jones?
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Well, that's an interesting story, man.
Just another thing right placeat the right time.
I was at the Union one day inLA and At that time you would
have to, you used to have to goto the Union to pick up your
check so they would get there,get their portion of it, which
(20:11):
was cool, and they'rewithholding the kind of thing.
So I was in line at the Unionman and there was another buddy
John Gates was his name and hewas.
He had gone to North Texas.
He was a little bit older thanme and he said yeah.
Hey, rick, man, how you doing?
I heard you move the town, blah, blah, blah.
I said, yeah, man, it's great,everything's cool and loving.
(20:33):
It had only been there forreally a month or two, I think,
right.
And and John said, well, listen, man, I'm leaving town, I'm
going on tour with somebody andI I wanted, I need somebody to
cover this gig, wanted if you'dlike to do it.
And I said, well, what is it?
He said it's the dancerehearsals for a movie, and
(20:54):
that's about all he said.
But it was with a greatwell-known pianist Companies,
and Devon person was this guy'sname, and at that time, you know
, kind of dance movies werereally big.
There's kind of break, breakdance movies and stuff.
So he said, manage dancerehearsals With the dancers, you
(21:15):
drums and piano and you have tokind of play these, make up
these things that they dance to,you know.
So it was almost like youactually write is called
sketching and you actually kindof write the piano guy Devon
would come up with some, youknow they would say, okay, we
need some action thing like this, it sounds like this and kind
(21:38):
of like this.
He would just kind of grooveand he would just play some off
the top of his head and I would,and I would play drums and they
would start writing the dancenumbers you know.
Finish, though, so man it would.
and then I found out that QuincyJones was producing the music
and Sidney Portier he wasexecutive producer of the movie.
(22:00):
So, man, it just.
You know that that was, thatwas a great, great opportunity
and a great adventure for me,man Early, and and so when you
get a gig like that, everybodyhears about it, of course.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
How often have you thanked your friend for getting
you that?
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Believe me, man, me anytime, anytime.
So what was what's really funnyabout that man?
And I told a story to somebodyjust the other day.
But you know, at that time drummachines were kind of coming on
the scene and replacing a lotof drummers and people, usually
in the studios, and you knowthey we went in of what you call
pre-record.
(22:38):
We would do a basic track totunes before a movie and then
they bring in the orchestrationand you know, yeah, horns and
strings and all this stuff.
But we got to do the pre-recordto a lot of the stuff and stuff
we had written.
So I did the pre-records andthen they say, okay, thank you
very much.
You know you get, you know yourunion, you know you make good
(23:00):
money on that stuff.
Yeah, first we were gettingpaid for those rehearsals, with
the first for a couple of months, like every day, you know, five
days a week, so, and playingwith beautiful dancers.
You know I was single at thetime, so you know we're watching
these girls dance and play thedrums, what.
What could be wrong with that?
So and so, man, we, they did apre-record.
(23:25):
And then a couple weeks later Igot a phone call and they said
hey, rick, you need to come backin.
They want you to do somethingon that pre-record, and I didn't
really know what it was exactly.
So I went down to the studioand they had tried to replace
something.
I played like a funky, one ofmy kind of cool grooves that the
dancers knew and liked, andthey danced to it, and when they
(23:49):
tried to cut the movie, theyhad Recreated this groove with a
drum machine.
Yeah and, and the dancer saidwhat happened to that stuff?
Rick played what we can't wecan't dance to this, and so that
was great man.
So I actually replaced the drummachine on that Particular
thing, man.
So that was kind of turningyour tables on the drum.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Take funny story.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Exactly, it felt really good, man.
It felt kind of cool, like,okay, that's cool, you know.
And it was cool that they, youknow, they noticed it enough.
You know, the dancers, I mean,they were in there.
They were in there on asoundstage cutting the scene and
all of a sudden they had kindof Reconstructed it and they
said what the fuck?
You know, what is this?
(24:37):
Where's?
Where's that cool thing thatRick was playing?
so they called me and I got togo in and do it man, and it was
you know they go all the greatstudios Westlake in LA and all
that stuff and it was justreally really one of my first
big, Big opportunities, whichwas great.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
And did you?
Did you do more for QuincyJones productions?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
No, no, no, just did that one movie, did that one
movie, but I stayed in touch,you know, and you know met some
other guys that did some otherthings for that I worked for and
stuff, you know some otherproducers and stuff like that.
So you know, when it's coupleof the engineers called me for
some things, so yeah, that wasgreat.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
So I'm looking at your work history that you have
listed up on your Facebook pageand that was mid-80s You're in
LA.
You're gigging around any othermajor things you worked on
during that time.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Before we'll get to, before we get to Edgar winner,
because I know that was in the90s, right, right, well, yeah,
actually it's funny because Ihad played just before I moved
to LA.
I played with BB King for thefirst time and that was that was
.
That was another.
That was a great, great thingand Went on to play a couple of
(25:50):
gigs.
I never toured with BB, but Iplayed several gigs and the
first one Was at a, like a Namshow.
They used to have the Nam show,you know big music Friends show
, yeah, they used to.
They used to have the summershow in Chicago, right, and the
winter show in LA.
So the last one I think it wasthe very last one they had in
(26:13):
Chicago.
Man, I was playing Pearl drumsat the time.
I'm now playing DW.
I'm playing DW for 40 somethingyears, but I was endorsing that
was one of my first endorserspearl, right and, and pearl and
Gibson were they're Co-mingledsomehow, you know a parent
company or something.
Pearl and Gibson were togetherand of course, bb King.
(26:36):
Lucille was a Gibson 335 orwhatever, I don't know 335, but
you know he's Lucille has totalk, but, um, but so Pearl and
Gibson put on this bigger bitman and Asked me to play with.
Bb was playing when he was, ofcourse, the big name, but it was
.
Then they put a band togetherwith Neil Sean for Jerry, yeah,
(27:00):
bb King, okay, playing guitars.
Ralph Armstrong, a great bassplayer, to play with John look
on to you and bass players, no,ralph.
Or from Detroit, he was aanother Gibson guy and then
Larry London, pearl and I.
So we double-drunk with BB King.
So that was, yeah, that wasincredible.
(27:20):
That was incredible.
So that was at the NAMM showand then we played several other
concerts like that, you know,for the companies.
So so that was, that was great,man.
That was a Really a thrill toplay those.
You know, the thrill has gone.
Yeah, all those great shufflesand stuff would be be, and I
(27:40):
kind of kept in touch with someof the guys in that band.
And Then Tony Coleman, who wasthe last drummer, would be.
They played with him for a longtime.
Tony and I are good friends too, so but just, you know that you
, just you know playing thosekind of gigs, man, it's just
networking.
Yeah, you know you need to meetother people from that and you
(28:02):
know by the time.
So by the time, those were twomajor things that I had kind of
under my belt, you know, bb King.
Some people heard about that andthen also, when I was living in
Dallas, chuck Rainey had movedthere.
The great bass player playedwith Aretha and plays on a lot
of those Steeler Dan great tunes.
I played with Bernard Purdy ona lot of stuff, yeah, and and I
(28:25):
played in Chuck's band in DallasFor a couple of years.
So when I moved to LA, you knowI had worked with Chuck Rainey,
which people knew about.
The book was out, I had workedwith BB King, so those were, you
know, pretty good calling cards, yeah.
And then all of a sudden I getthat thing with Quincy producing
(28:46):
the music with that, you know.
So, man, it just startedfalling together.
You know again, right place atthe right time looks good and as
my yeah, yeah and being able todeliver, you know.
That's another thing too.
It's not all about you know who, you know.
You got to be able to, you know, deliver you know and be
punctual beyond time and, youknow, have good equipment.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Well, you know, I watched the documentary Hired
Guns and and right every singleone of them said you better be
on your A game, you better beable to bring it, because
there's a guy on the hallwaythat's ready.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Exactly exactly, exactly, man, it's a.
It's a funny story becausethere were some auditions that I
did before I got Edgers did.
There were some auditions thatI did around town.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
And.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
I remember, man, I went in one audition one time
and it was, I think, lou Grahamwas putting together a new band,
you know, and a great singer,you know, one of the voices,
voices of rock, you know.
And so I went in, man, they atsome reason, I think I just kind
of bulldozed my way in the lastday of the auditions or
(29:55):
something, and I played and theywere like really complimentary
and like really like kind offreaked out because they had
already chosen somebody, oh man,and they had already told a guy
.
But I went in somehow and gotin there and played with the
guys and it was great, man.
But you know, so it happens.
But yeah, like you said,there's always somebody, man,
(30:16):
that's ready, you know, to do it.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Before we get to Edgar, I want to ask you and I
told you I was going to ask youthis question, so maybe you had
time to think about it and maybeyou know already your Mount
Rushmore of drummers, the fourand I know it's hard to pick, I
mean it really is but fourdrummers that you really admire
for either their style, theirtechnique or what they've
achieved.
Four drummers in your opinionthis should be on the drummer
(30:42):
Mount Rushmore.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Okay, well, this is mine, you know, and there's so
many.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Yes, I know it's all subjective.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
So many, but I mean there is a lot we can talk about
some other guys too, but BuddyRich, steve Gadd, tony Williams
and the fourth is really hard.
I'm trying to think of who Iwould say would be the fourth
(31:11):
one, and it would probably bebetween, you know, mike Clark
and Harvey Mason.
So you know that to me, I meanthose influence me.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
And see those guys.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
You know so many drummers just through the
networking, a lot of drummers.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
You know names people never heard of.
Now, everybody knows Neil Pert,his legend.
He's one of the greatest rockdrummers ever and you know a lot
of drummers will default to himand they'll default to John
Bonham Right, well, bonham too.
Man see, that's another.
Again it's so hard to choose.
It's like trying to pick yourfavorite breath of air, you know
.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
But yeah, and the reason I picked them is because
they were, you know, influentialto me, I mean, and to drummers,
I think, across the board,right, I mean, as is, you know,
bonham, and you know all thoseguys, man, there are so many,
(32:10):
you know, there's, you know,even you know, I mean, I love
the James game, you know, I loveJimmy Fox and it's a great
drummer.
A lot of people don't know, youknow, and I love him.
Nigel Olson man, play somegreat stuff with Elton John.
I mean, you know, it's just,you know, and it is hard, man,
(32:32):
it's very difficult, you know,and then you talk about, then
you talk about, you know, likeJoe Morello, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Roy Haines.
Do I have to pick just four?
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Come on yeah right, mount Rushmore might have about
20 guys.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Well, now, we're gonna go on to Edgar winner.
I was going back throughsomething today and I and I
keyed in.
I looked up Edgar's name and Ihad forgotten that Edgar played
saxophone on my Be All IndoleFavorite album of all time and
that was the Bad Out of HellMeatloaf Bad Out of Hell.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
He played sax he played saxophone on that album.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
He's a great saxophone player, man.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Oh, he's tremendous.
He's a great sax player man.
He played, you know, he playedsax, organ, piano and sings and
could do all of that stuffincredibly well.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
I had forgotten.
You know Max Weinberg playeddrums on three of the tracks and
I had forgotten that.
Willie Wilcox, I didn't knowthat.
I didn't even know that MaxWeinberg was the drummer on Bad
Out of Hell.
You took the words right out ofmy mouth and Paradise.
So, Paradise by the dashboardlights.
Willie Wilcox played on theother tracks Right right, you're
(33:43):
the great drummer and I didn'tknow that.
I had forgotten that.
You know and I looked at youknow, todd Rundgren produced,
played all the guitar parts.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Sure sure, we played with Todd.
We played with Todd a coupletimes with Edgar, that was great
.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Oh man, that has had to be awesome, man, really.
So how did you come to theattention of Edgar Winter?
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Well, it's funny, man .
I'll tell you what happened.
I didn't even have audition forEdgar, because Carmine of Pease
recommended me.
Another great drummer yeah yeah, another great guy too that
influenced the bottom.
You know, I mean really, reallycrazy.
Carmine's a great, great friendof mine, man, and we have a lot
(34:21):
of mutual respect because youknow he wrote his realistic rock
book, was one of the first rockdrum books and it's still a
great book and I used to use itwith my students, you know, when
I was teaching before I wrotemy book and Carmine and I became
really good friends, man, andCarmine had that gig played with
Edgar for a short time and herecommended me, man, you know.
(34:46):
So I went in.
I didn't really audition but Idid go in and play, you know,
with Edgar.
One day We'd get, you know,called me to a studio but you
know I got the gig and man.
Edgar and I really got alonggreat.
I mean, he's a great drummertoo, yeah.
I mean he plays Tim Bolly's onFrankenstein.
But he's got a good sense oftime, man, and he's a good.
(35:08):
He knows drums and he likesdrums.
So you know, we really gotalong great, man.
He liked my drumming a lot andit was just a great, great
experience.
But that's how I got the gig,you know.
And it was funny.
Couple years later Carmine andI were talking.
You know Carmine's from NewYork and he's like hey, what the
fuck, hey you rich, hey.
(35:31):
So.
So we were talking and he saidhey, man, what the fuck you
making more money with Edgarthan I am, than I did, you know.
So that was funny, we werelaughing, you know joking, but
it was funny.
So but that was that's again,man networking.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah, yeah, now, edgar produced.
He produced a couple albums too.
I looked, he produced Open Fire, ronnie Montrose.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah, we played with Ronnie a couple yeah, too bad
man, you know he's bad too, butit was great.
We yeah, we played with allthose guys.
Man.
Like I said, rick Derringer, weeven played man.
We played one New Year's Eve inBeaumont, where he's from, and
also Janice Joplin is fromBeaumont.
I don't know if people knowthat, but they kind of grew up
(36:17):
together, but we played inBeaumont on a New Year's Eve and
Edgar's mom came to the gig.
That was great.
And Jerry LaCrosse sang man,the guy from White Trash, you
know.
Oh well, yeah, yeah, so, and theWhite Trash horns used to play
with us every once in a while.
Yeah, that was killer.
We're doing those things, man.
(36:37):
The White Trash record iskiller.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
And you got to just go around the world with Edgar.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
But we did, man.
We went to Japan several times,all over the United States,
Canada.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
I posted a video you guys playing the Montrose Jazz
Festival.
I saw that.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah, thanks for posting.
Oh yeah, I'm trying to getpeople excited about the podcast
.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Well, it was.
That was a great experience,man, the night we played.
Man, check this out that thesame stage was.
We played.
It wasn't in this order Iforget the order, right, but REM
played that night on the samestage.
Bb played that night with hisbig band, david Sanborn and Gary
(37:24):
Moore.
Oh wow Blues guitar yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
So that was crazy.
And we were all standing in thesame hotel and then we were all
down in the bar drinking andstuff.
Man, that was killer.
And Claude Nobbs man, he'spassed away too, but he was the
host man of all those greatyears and they still have it.
The Montrose Jazz Festival.
(37:49):
Claude Nobbs had a big chateauthere, man, he would invite us
up for parties and stuff.
It was just a really incredible, very special thing.
And on tour it runs for about amonth.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
It's like all month long, so they have every kind,
and it used to be just jazzstuff, but now they've opened it
up to reach a wider audience.
Yeah, which is cool.
Which is cool.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
You mentioned everybody staying in the same
hotel and there's a lot ofpartying going on.
It's rock and roll, and when Iwas younger, I did my share of
partying and all the other stufftoo.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
But how?
Speaker 1 (38:30):
did you handle yourself, man?
How did you get through all ofthat?
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Well, we got pretty crazy at times, man, and that
was the 90s, so it was a littlecrazy late 80s and 90s and stuff
.
So yeah, I mean there wasdefinitely some illicit things
going around, but I stopped allthat stuff years ago and was
able to just kind of coldturkeys, stop doing all the bad
(38:55):
stuff.
It seemed like from thebeginning you were serious about
your work writing the books andstudying Exactly, and I always
have been man and I'd like tohave a good time, but I'm not
stupid and that could bedebatable Depending on you, if
(39:15):
you ask my wife.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Well, it depends on the company and the time of day.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
But no.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
I still like to have a drink and stuff, but I don't
drink that much.
Man and I just I'd like to takecare of business and I've
always been that way.
And that's one thing, man, thatmy parents taught me.
I got from them.
My dad was a hardworking guyman and he worked for Winn Dixie
his whole life.
I don't know how many peopleremember Winn Dixie stores.
It was a big chain man backwhen I was a kid and he went to
(39:49):
work man and worked his way upfrom a bag boy at the company
man, a stock boy, to anexecutive with a company.
Wow.
So you know, we worked for thecompany for 45 years, man Crazy.
And you know just my mom man, Ihad a great.
You know my parents love myparents.
They're both past but you know,taught me some good.
(40:10):
You know ethics and morals and,yeah, I always wanted to take
care, man.
You know, and it's important Ithink that's another thing too
that you know all these greatguys that you've talked about, I
mean they've had maybe doubtswith you know, trouble times and
stuff, but they all take careof business and the ones that
really last learn how to takecare, you know.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
You know, I notice you have your own signature
drumsticks with a pro mark, promark, yeah, and was that a
really cool moment in your lifewhen you saw that on a drumstick
?
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah, it really was, man.
I had a great relationship withthe owner, the first real owner
of pro mark, Herb Brockstein,who created the company and
Herbs passed but his son, maury,took over the company and they
were based in Houston, texas.
The factory's still there thepro mark factory and then the
(41:09):
Dario which is the big stringcompany.
They bought pro mark severalyears ago.
So, yeah, so it was.
You know, it was interesting,man, to have that stick.
No-transcript, something that'svery special to me.
Man, I had a great.
You know I designed a stick.
It's just really good feeling,natural, well-balanced stick.
(41:34):
You know, I mean, everybody'sgot a different kind of personal
feeling for drumsticks, butpeople like it.
It's one of the best-sellingsticks.
And yeah, man, to getendorsements, you know that was
something at that time.
I've been playing pro-markmanfor 30 years at least.
I've had that stick and I'vebeen with DW for 40-something
(41:54):
years.
I've been with Istanbul Mehmetfor 40-something years.
You know Evans and Pro-Mark forlike 30.
So I'm not the guy that jumpsaround and you know, I got those
endorsements when I was youngand so they really mean a lot to
me.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
So Istanbul is your symbols, right.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Istanbul Mehmet.
Uh-huh, yeah, there's a coupledifferent companies.
Sorry, sorry to interrupt, butI would like to just a lot of
people get confused.
There's an Istanbul companythat, actually and there's an
Istanbul Agap.
Now, agap and Mehmet weretogether at one time, it was
just Istanbul.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
And.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Agap, another gentleman.
They were partners and he diedin a boating accident some years
ago.
So his son took over theIstanbul Agap.
So they split a little bit andbecame Istanbul Agap, now Mehmet
, who is the original guy, thereal symbol smith.
He kept his part, so it'scalled Istanbul Mehmet, so a
(42:58):
Turkish guy still made inIstanbul.
And so I'd like todifferentiate and really say
Istanbul Mehmet, because there'sIstanbul company and then
there's the Istanbul Agap, soIstanbul Mehmet, yeah, but he
man, he's probably the greatestliving symbol maker.
He actually made the famousKays when Zildan was in Istanbul
(43:22):
, when the Zildan factory was inIstanbul.
He made the early Kays Zildanswhen he was like 11 years old.
So he's the real guy.
Everybody else has learned fromhim or someone else and they
try to recreate that stuff, butto me, man, istanbul Mehmet has
(43:43):
a real special sound.
And I really I love him.
We've got a great relationship.
All the people that workedthere have been the factory
several times at Istanbul and Ijust love the symbols and all
those companies.
Like I said, I got greatrelationships with DW Evans and
Pro March Really great.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Yeah, you mentioned Evans drum heads.
They've been around forever.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Right.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
You have a preferred foot pedal?
That's always a big thing withdrummers.
Is there a preferred pedal?
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Well, I used to DW 5000 pedals, the first or the
turbo ones.
They make a lot of differentones.
They make one called theaccelerator and they make a
bunch of different things, butthe 5000 regular, 5000 turbo is
my pedal.
That's the one I use all thetime.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
I ask a lot of drummers sometimes how many
drums sets you have, or thequestion a lot of times the one
that gets me sometimes is toolow.
I've got four drum sets but Ihave 142 snares.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Right, right.
Well, todd Todd, todd Sucermantalking about sticks drum.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Oh, I've seen his room.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
You know he's got yeah, he's got so many snare
drums.
Yeah, that's crazy, it's reallycrazy, but that's cool.
I mean he likes to collect andI like to use my stuff.
You know, I have probably 10snare drums and I have six drum
kits, beautiful DW drum kits andI know people go, oh, that's a
(45:19):
lot, but I have two in Europe.
I've got three here and I'vegot one more in Germany.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
And people don't understand too that different
drum kits with sizes and kicks,they make different sounds.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Exactly in different woods.
I have different size drums andstuff like that.
So, yeah, it's all you know.
I don't try to abuse that and Idon't ask for a bunch of free
stuff.
But it is nice, man, to havefull endorsements and I get
everything free, which is nice.
But I don't abuse that and Icollect cymbals.
(45:59):
I have probably over 100cymbals.
I love cymbals man, and I've gotsome old cymbals and some that
I made with a very special guyman Roberto Spizzicchino was a
very famous Italian guy that Imade.
He's known among drummers.
He was kind of a jazz guy andmade these great cymbals and I
(46:22):
made some cymbals with him onetime.
He became a friend and I've gotsome of those cymbals that we
made back in the 90s in Italy.
But yeah, I just love cymbals.
I love the sound.
I have a lot of different ridecymbals and different crash
cymbals, hi hats and differentthings.
(46:43):
I've got a set I like to usewith Mac with this playing blues
.
I've got a set I like to usewith Edgar.
Edgar had a favorite snare drum.
Did he like the mine that Iwould always take on the road?
You know it was a DW drum.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Different snares get different sounds.
They're deeper.
The wood's different.
They're different sizes.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
So all that stuff is sopersonal, you know and it's you
know it just the way it feels.
You know the way it sounds andthe way it feels.
You get used to that stuff.
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
So you like to use something.
You like to use something thatfeels good and it's comfortable,
you know, like a pair of shoes,yeah, so you left.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
You left Edgar Winter after touring extensively for
several years in 2002.
Is that correct?
You were still in LA.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Yeah, yeah, still in LA, and then for a couple years
I didn't really go on the road,but I was teaching a lot.
And then I got to the gig withJuice Newton.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
I was in L5.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
And yeah, and the way I got that was through the
sound man that worked for Edgarwas now working for Juice.
So again, I did an audition.
They had a, you know, theyasked me to come in and play one
day and I played and I thinkthe next day we went out, went
out on the road.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
you know Well, she has one of the most powerful
voices that I've ever heard.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
She's a great singer man and Juice was really still
sounding, really really great.
She still sounds great, youknow.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
When I first heard the sweetest thing I've ever
known and then you know, angelof the Morning and then, of
course, queen of Hearts, but thesweetest thing I ever known I
just I could not fathom thepower behind that woman's voice.
It was incredible.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
Yeah Well, she always would hit that high note man at
the end of the tune every night.
Man, I'd never, never watch it.
You know, she was reallyincredible and a great band
Actually, otha Young, that wrotesome of those tunes.
He was still in the band when Ijoined the band so yeah, he and
(48:52):
Juice wrote that Angel of theMorning.
So really incredible.
So yeah, playing those kind oftunes, man, even like Edgar, you
know, playing all those greattunes, juice playing, it's
really a special feeling.
You know, when you play behindan artist, just like you know,
like anybody playing with any,you know, any younger guy that
gets a gig with a, like one oftheir idol bands you know, it's
(49:17):
incredible man, just to playthose legendary songs, man, and
you know and play.
you know you don't need to playa bunch of new stuff.
I mean you need to kind of payhomage to the original.
Yeah, so you know, it's notlike you have to copy it exactly
, but there's certain fills andstuff like that that are fun to
(49:37):
play.
And it made the tune.
You know what made it famous.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
I explain that to people sometimes.
It's sometimes certain thingsabout a certain song is like
comfort food.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
You expect to hear it and expect to hear it that way,
yeah you wouldn't play in theair tonight and not go, you
wouldn't go shoot, get that, putthat.
No, you know.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
That opening to Billy Joel that Liberty came up with.
You don't play.
You know you don't change that.
You try to play it exactly.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Man, that's funny man , because you know I called him.
I don't live through it verywell man.
And I called him.
We played.
We played the hard rock up inBristol, virginia.
There's a new hard rock upthere.
We play it every couple ofweeks with Matt, so I was coming
back and that tune.
(50:36):
What's the matter with theclone?
Speaker 1 (50:40):
that you were Still rock and roll to me.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Yeah, okay, okay, it's got that one fill.
Yeah, I called him.
I picked up the.
It was playing it the car onthe way back I picked it up.
I said that is the best fillever in a tune.
I said did you just think ofthat on the spot and play 16th
against that shuffle man thatyou know?
(51:03):
And he was like laughing andstuff and I said that is the
best fill ever.
Yeah, but yeah, he played somegreat stuff too.
Very identifiable man.
He, I think, made that band.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
Oh yeah, I mean that band had a certain feel and a
certain groove to it and itstarts right there with him,
Sure.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
And he's a heavy player, man.
He's a hard hitter, you know.
But you know Edgar's stuff too,man, frankenstein, those drum
things, you know.
That's a, you know you want toplay that kind of like the
original.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
Well, you have to honor that.
You know, you really do have tohonor that.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
Because it could be disappointing.
You go to a concert and youdon't hear that.
Like I said, that comfort thingYou've always heard and you
know it's there and the drummerthat does it, you know it's just
, it's great.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
Sure, sure, that's just like.
You know a lot of the stuff too, man, with you know Dary's
Danny Serifing, the originalChicago drummer, another great
buddy of mine, man, and I lovedhis stuff and I was so shocked
and sad when you know he left aband and stuff.
I mean because his sound too,man, that was Chicago, that
(52:08):
those drum parts man make mesmile and all that stuff.
That's you know, that's Danny,you know he made that stuff.
And then it's in and BloodSweat and Tears in Bobby
Columbia, another great, greatdrummer that became a record
executive.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
Yeah, in between touring with you, snoot, and in
between touring with EdgarWynnard, you're giving lessons
Right Now.
Did you take beginner studentsall the way to advanced?
Speaker 2 (52:35):
I did for a short time but I always had more
advanced.
You know, intermediate toadvanced guys.
Right and and during and duringthat time too, sorry to
interrupt.
No, During that time too Iwrote my second book in 1990.
I wrote that contemporary drumset technique which was more of
a like linear excuse me, linearkind of drumming.
(52:59):
So so that you know, I wasalways still thinking about
teaching and writing and sharingideas and stuff.
But yeah, I I had, you know,several, you know, beginning
students, but mostly guys thatwere playing, you know, and a
lot of guys had used the book.
So they wanted to kind of takelessons with the guidebook, the
(53:19):
book and stuff.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
So, when you're talking to drummers, what
philosophies or what, what doyou try to and and buy in them?
What do you try to get them tounderstand about drumming and
the techniques that they'reusing and the feel and the?
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Yeah, feel is the main thing.
I mean I, I do work with a lotof guys on technique because,
like I said, I'm I'm lucky andfortunate and I don't mean to
sound arrogant, but I havereally good technique, but I
learned it from really greatteachers, right.
So you know, a lot of drummersdon't have very good technique
and some drummers have terribletechnique but a great feel, and
(53:54):
some drummers have, you know,great technique and no feel.
So so the thing I try to teach,you know it's a kind of happy
medium, but feel is the mainthing, man, to have a good feel
when you're playing.
Right, you know, you can, youcan be.
There's a certain amount ofsloppiness that some things need
(54:14):
a little bit.
You know something that can'tbe too perfect, yeah, and.
But the feel you know and soundis something else.
I don't think.
I think a lot of drummers don'tunderstand how to get a good
sound from the drums.
You know tuning your drums, notonly, but how you hit the drum.
You know there's a certain like.
I'm not a guy man, there's alot of guys and I did a lot of
(54:37):
this when I was in school, likeplaying in supper clubs and
playing brushes and peopleclanging glasses and eating and
shit while you're playing.
I hate that.
I hate that man.
I like to play concerts, youknow, and I know I'm probably
burning a lot of bridges thatpeople hear this, you know, and
I like to play a jazz gig everyonce in a while, but it's you
(54:58):
know, I'm a hard hitter too.
You know, I'm not a brush guy.
You know I mean, I can playbrushes and I played a lot of
brushes in my lifetime.
But you know you have to learnhow to you know and play for the
music.
You know, it's not all about adrum solo, it's about supporting
the song.
You know, and that's what wasgreat about live, for instance,
(55:19):
you know, with Billy Joel.
So you know, I just try toteach guys to be musical and
have you know good technique, orwork on their technique at
least, and but have a good feeland a good sound on the drums,
because I think a lot, of a lotof guys too that play things
like supper club gigs and stuff,they don't hit the drums.
(55:39):
You know, they're used toplaying very light.
So if they had to play in frontof 75,000 people, that's a
whole different story.
You know, yeah, you see a lotof people.
You know a lot of drummers,especially like Facebook and
Instagram.
They'll post their drum solo,you know, and they're playing in
the club with, like you know,10 people.
(56:01):
Yeah, nobody, I don't know man,nobody.
I don't even want to hear adrum solo.
I'm not a solo drummer man.
I play when I have to man to dosomething.
But if there's not a big, bigcrowd or something I don't want
to play.
Nobody's interested in a drumsolo.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
Yeah, I mean that's a that's always been a concert
thing to me, you know.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
Right, exactly, exactly.
But it's interesting.
But, like you said, you know, Imean, yeah, just, you know, I
like the guys, you know, andguys tend to really do get it.
You know, when I talk to them,guys that have been playing, you
know, for a long time, you knowthey'll come back to me, said
man, after a few lessons.
They said, man, my band sounds,I sound better and feel better,
(56:44):
so that's great.
Oh, yeah, you know, that's thebest, that's the best compliment
you can have, you know, as ateacher and for those guys you
know, sometimes you get them tounderstand this.
Speaker 1 (56:54):
Sometimes, if you drag the beat, if you're just
behind it, you know it suregives a whole different feel to
the song, sure man, you could beon top or lay back.
Yeah, a lot of a lot of Motownartists were.
That was a big thing, you know,and I listened to a lot of the
muscle shows, music and thatkind of thing.
Sure Dragon, just slightlybehind the beat man to give it a
(57:16):
whole different feel.
Speaker 2 (57:16):
That's what I yeah, that's what I grew up listening
to.
Like I said, man, I listened toa lot of black R&B, gospel, you
know, and that stuff.
You know real R&B at that time,you know from the 60s, and
stuff that's that's laid back,yeah, and some of that muscle
shows, like the muscle showstuff, man, some of that stuff
(57:37):
is real sloppy but it soundsgreat because it all worked
together.
You know, all those guys werein the same groove, you know.
Speaker 1 (57:46):
I listened to the Beach Boys over and over and
over again throughout my youthand that's how I discovered Hal.
Blaine yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:58):
Yeah, I started to say Hal man.
I went to one of his birthdayparties.
Oh wow, he was a trip man.
He had some great stuff.
Speaker 1 (58:06):
Oh, I'll bet.
Speaker 2 (58:07):
And a great guy man, but think about all the stuff he
did.
Yeah, very different man.
Like you said Beach Boys, sonnyand Cher, the Monkeys.
Speaker 1 (58:16):
Come on.
I mean, they're playing.
They're playing on everybody'salbums and they're the most
unknown people in the world.
Speaker 2 (58:24):
Exactly the Wrecking Crew.
You know I mean.
Speaker 1 (58:26):
Blaine Campbell did a stint in there for a while, and
of course Carol Kay on bass andTommy Tedesco on guitar and
just heavy hitter, just some ofthe greatest musicians that
you've never heard of.
Speaker 2 (58:39):
Exactly, and the muscle shows guys too.
Speaker 1 (58:42):
Well, and all the motown artists, all the James
and all those guys that played,yeah, yeah, you know they never
got credit on the albums, never.
Speaker 2 (58:51):
Right, Another great player too, man, James Gadson.
Yes, One of my all-timefavorite in Bernard, of course,
in Bernard Purdy.
But Gadson, you know, playedall that great Bill Withers
stuff, man, and played a bunchof other stuff too.
Man, he played, you know, heplayed a lot of stuff that
people don't know.
You know Well and that's true.
Speaker 1 (59:12):
You know talking about all these unknown session
musicians.
That's true in every genre, too, because Nashville is full of
some of the best players in theworld that you've never heard of
.
Sure, Sure and.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
I actually love country music, man, I love to do
you know a lot of country.
People think country is goingthrough commercial and stuff.
But man, for a drummer and aguitar player, country music is
slamming.
It's like Aiden's Rock, youknow, I love it.
Yeah, I really like all thatstuff.
Speaker 1 (59:38):
They've changed a lot of the dynamic of country and
they're gearing it toward ayounger audience and they're
gearing it toward concert typemusic.
You know now, and I'm a I lovetraditional stuff, so I'm
listening to guys Drake,milligan, I'm loving the stuff
this kid's doing.
Speaker 2 (59:54):
It's got a new traditional.
I like, yeah, I liketraditional country too man.
I don't dislike it, but I likethe new stuff too and I think
there's room for everything.
Like you said, it's a differentaudience.
Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
You're touring with juice Newton through the 2014,
and that's just a few years back.
Now you said, and I'm notmistaken, you started another
band after that.
Was there a band?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
Yeah, well, I had, yeah, I had a band in LA called
the groove Right Right, and thatwas a really great band, man,
it had some great players.
It man, albert Wing, wasplaying sax, alto and tenor sax.
Albert played with FrankZappler Right, a lot of sax
(01:00:38):
players know who Albert is.
Ken Tussing was playingtrombone, played with Ray
Charles to it with Ray Charlesfor a very long time.
He was in a Navy band also andstuff, but the sessions in LA.
Matt Garty, great guitar playerthat actually is from Dallas,
that I knew in Dallas was livingin LA.
(01:00:58):
And Vail Johnson, great bassplayer, has been playing with
Kenny G for about 30 years, Ithink.
Another great, he lives inNashville now but played with a
lot of other like jazz artistsand stuff to great bass player.
And Bob Luna, keyboard playerthat was played with Dionne
(01:01:19):
Warwick, and so all these guyswere, you know, la guys and I
knew them and had played gigswith them around town.
So we put it, get band together, sort of like.
You remember the jazz crusaders, you know the crusaders would
stick.
Hooper play drums, joe Sampleplayed keyboards.
They had a band, you know, thatwas kind of built around
trombone and tenor so that waskind of the it was more funky
(01:01:43):
crusaders kind of sound.
And we did a live record fromthe baked potato famous club in
LA.
We have a live record that youcan hear online.
Yeah, great, really great band.
So yeah, we played the bakedpotato about once a month, you
know for several years.
So that was a really great band.
(01:02:05):
And yeah, that was the last bandI had before I moved here.
I actually was living in, Ilived in Italy for five years.
I had an apartment, I wasworking a lot in Italy with some
producers from Germany andItaly, and I had a trio over
there with some great guys too,and it was just called, a lathe
(01:02:26):
from Ruggiero.
Robin was a guitar player namedNicola Sarato, so lathe from
Robin Sarato, and it was a trioplaying all original music that
we played in Poland and Franceand, you know, around Italy and
Croatia, and you know it wasgreat man.
(01:02:47):
So that was a more instrumentalkind of project, as was the
Grusebacher's too.
So, and then I moved here, man,in two years ago, you know in
2001.
Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Well, they say you can never go home.
Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
but you did, well I had no intention of it's funny,
I had no intention of evermoving back here, man.
But during COVID I was whenthat first started I was in
Italy and it hit really hard inItaly.
So I came back to LA, gave upmy apartment in Italy, came back
to LA and my wife and I, youknow, during those three years,
(01:03:23):
man, that was really bad for youknow, the whole music business
as well as every business justabout.
So we were thinking you knowwhat's what's happening and what
happens when COVID's over and Imight go back to Europe.
You know, the East Coast is sixhours closer, you know, than LA
.
So you know, and you know, lawas getting, you know the
(01:03:45):
homeless thing was kind ofgetting big and expensive.
Man, la is expensive.
I love LA, man, don't get mewrong, I really love it.
But you know, I started talkingthen to Jim again, my teacher
that was retired back here,linda, his wife, the real estate
agent.
So you know they said, man,now's a good time to buy and
there's a couple places, maybe.
(01:04:06):
So we started, my wife and Isaid, you know, maybe we'll move
.
You know, move back there, man.
It's like I said, the EastCoast, which is great.
I see some, see some seasons.
You know that I didn't see in LA, which is again great, but you
know, and plus man, we'respending about two thirds less
every month and we have abeautiful house with, you know,
(01:04:30):
a big piece of land and you knowit's just beautiful.
Man, I got my studio here.
So you know, once you've madethese connections and stuff like
we've been talking about, youcould live anywhere.
You know, and still do the samething.
I still do a lot of tracks.
I'm teaching here.
I still teach online as well,but, you know, teaching people
all over the world and teachinglive lessons again, and and
(01:04:54):
doing tracks for people, that's.
And now they dig with Matt youknow, my car.
You know, I got that a coupleyears ago.
Speaker 1 (01:05:01):
So how did that come about?
Playing with dr Mack?
Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Well, my man is such a great guy I was actually I.
We started a band with someguys.
I met here Mike Frost, greatbass player.
He's from New York originallybut was living in Aiken when I
first moved here.
So we every it's funny man,because Mike's a great player,
jazz guy, you know, new York guy, grew up playing all time all
(01:05:29):
kind of music and you know, andwhen I moved here, I mean people
kind of knew my background andyou know they said, oh man, you
need to just meet Mike Frost,he's the guy that you know.
You guys were playing greattogether.
So we met, you know, and playedand kind of started a band with
Austin.
(01:05:49):
Yeah, plays with Mac too, sothat's kind of how.
So we started this band andplayed some games, you know, and
then Mike, I think firstThrough Austin, got the gig with
Mac and then, and thensomething happened with the
drummer.
They were looking for a newdrummer and then so naturally,
you know, we've been playingtogether.
So they say, well, what aboutRick?
(01:06:11):
Man, let's see if Rick wants todo it.
So I've been doing that now forabout two years.
Yeah, it's great man, it's agreat band.
Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
You guys sounded great at the at the awards
ceremony.
You only got to play.
Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
Yeah, right, but, but yeah, but yeah.
It's a great band.
Man and Mac is incredible.
Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
I did not realize all of Mac's history when I started
, you know, getting to know himover the last few years and and
all the people that he's playedwith and you know they're
starting to look at all that.
And I talked to Mac at theawards.
I said, you know, yeah, and hewants to be on the show.
I got a schedule to time to gethim on here because I can't.
Imagine what the stories thatthis man can tell.
Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
He's got some great stories, you know, and he lived
in LA for a little while, yeah,yeah.
So so we've got some Thingsthat we know from LA together.
You know, that's funny I meanwe weren't there at the same
time but he knows a lot ofplaces that were still there
when I was there, stuff and wetalked about that.
So, yeah, he's done some greatstuff, man.
(01:07:13):
He's a great guy, man it justturned 81 man and he's great on
stage.
You know, he gets around asgood as anybody.
Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
And still wants to play, you know yeah I, we've
been so busy man.
Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
It's incredible.
Everybody can't.
It's the best gig there is.
Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Yeah, well, since we do have a storm coming in the
area, let's go ahead and try towrap this up with a couple of
questions that I always want toask everybody.
When you get in the car andyou're driving somewhere, what
are you listening to?
I?
Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
Listen to country radio.
Man, I do.
That's what I listen to.
Sometimes I'll take mixes frommy studio.
Sure, I'll make a CD and playit in the car.
Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
You know, I still have a CD player, like a feed
even when you, when you'restreaming television or you're
watching TV, what do you like towatch?
Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
You know I watch a lot of movies.
I don't.
I don't like really a lot of TVshows.
Yeah, I like movies.
I love my Amazon.
Prime is Amazon and Netflix.
Yeah, so you know I do that.
I like the news man, I do.
I like to watch the news and Ilike local news.
(01:08:25):
Yeah, I like to watch the newsevery day at six o'clock or
whatever.
Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Yeah, I like.
I like to know what's going onin town.
Yeah yeah, last question if you, if you had not been a musician
, any fathom of an idea of whatyou would have been, what you I
would have been yeah, yeah,probably like a graphic artist
or something, because that wasan art.
Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
I was an art minor in school, so so I know a little
bit about art and design and youknow I like that.
I like art also very much, somaybe you know maybe something
in art.
Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
You know, I really thought you were a cool guy
before, but I really like you awhole lot more now.
Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
That's what I do for a living.
Thanks, man, I told you earlier, I know just enough to be
dangerous with all this Websitedesign stuff.
And man, I've got a very goodfriend of mine that designed my
advanced funk studies covered ayellow book.
Yeah, a lot of people call it,call it the yellow book.
She's a great graphic artist,heather Dickley, in In Dallas,
(01:09:31):
and she does everything for thecity and stuff.
Yeah, she makes all thebillboards and she's got a huge
company now.
But at the time she was marriedto a friend of mine and she we
designed this cover, man, andit's become like a life of its
own.
It's the yellow book.
Everybody knows and so that's.
But I tell her, I'll call herand ask her once in a while some
(01:09:53):
question about Photoshop.
She'll start laughing, you know, like she says don't, don't
even go there.
Yeah, you know well, now I know,Just enough to be dangerous,
you know okay, well, okay, Ilied.
Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
last question Um, okay, okay, what's it?
What's in your future, next twoyears, down the road, what's
what's gonna be happening withyou?
Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
well, more with Matt and I and I'm starting to, you
know people asking about clinicsand stuff again.
I used to do a lot of clinicsbefore Covid and stuff and
master classes and stuff, sothat's coming back a little bit.
So I want to get a little moreactive with that, you know, and
Working here in the studio, I'mworking with some producers in
(01:10:34):
Italy and Germany and do a lotof tracks for those guys and you
know, just make more music,play more drums.
Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
Well, one of the lines I'm gonna use when
promoting is it's that you, youwrote the book on drumming and
in fact you wrote two books ondrumming.
Plus you got DVDs all about thegroove.
That's a DVD set, is that right?
Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
It's funny you can get actually the 25th
anniversary.
The book is the advanced homestudies is 43 years old, wow,
and for the 25th anniversary Iput both of the videos, the
advanced home studies andcontemporary drum set techniques
, together With great interviewswith Louis Belson and Ed
Shaughnessy and some of the lastthings they did on camera.
(01:11:15):
Really, it's really great.
People should watch those justto see those guys and the all
about the groove is something Idid with drum channel.
He got you and that's.
That's more of just my kind ofphilosophy and concepts of
linear drumming.
So it's totally different thanBoth books, but it's got a lot
(01:11:38):
of my ideas.
You know, kind of any.
So so there's a, there's a 25thanniversary anniversary of the
books, which has both DVDs ofthe books on there, and it's
only about the books, with thenew stuff, new footage with head
and Louis, and then the, theDVD, the Three DVD set, all
(01:12:00):
about the groove, and it alsohas 20 play along tracks on it.
Oh, but I play the tracks witha band in the video and then you
can play.
I downloaded tracks withoutdrums, oh, okay, well, so, so,
yeah, so it's a.
It's a great package.
Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
And all that's available at Rick Latham calm
correct.
Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
Rick Latham, calm and you can.
There's links to it.
Drum channel actually has that,but Alfred has the two books.
Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
Rick, thanks again.
Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
Oh, thank you, man.
I really appreciate it.
Really appreciate it, chris,and you know, let's, let's try
to hook up sometime and I'm sureI'll see you upstate again
sometime soon.
Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
Backstage with Chris Lee is a production of MB media,
copyright 2023.
Be sure to like, follow andshare our posts on social media.
You can download backstage withChris Lee wherever you get your
podcasts and, of course, youcan find us at backstage with
Chris Lee com.
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