#29 | Denan Kemp - Backstage with Cooper & Matty Johns

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, let's get into the podcast rights. We can leave

(00:03):
that little bit in there.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Janel Cram Not you talk about real estate though, No.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
My tips on real estate, nah, they're are good. Camp
be tenant down and camp welcome.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
Brother, Mate tips on real estate? Are you serious? I'm
bloody on the beach up north here. I'm talking about
sixty seventy million.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Don't surely change me.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
Mate.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Level sixteen is a friend from the stag.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
He can be congratulations mate on the coffee Grumpy Coffee. Now,
when people say this is really good coffee and stuff
like that, I saw of roll my eyes sometime sometimes,
but this is I swear to god, this is really good, mate, Mate.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
I can't take any credit for it because it's our
co founder that roasted all. So when I come up
with the idea so all like all the idea of
the grumpy coffee and me wanting to get into coffee
and start a coffee business, like that's that's my idea
and it was actually over in Europe when I come
up with the idea for it. I'll get to that eventually.
But it's actually Mitch so our coffee. He's been the
industry for like twenty thirty years so and all parts

(01:03):
of the industry. So he's like been a rep for coffee.
He's he's actually taught how to make coffee. He's also
owned a cafe and the Sunshine Coast and a Sunshine
Coast an award winning cafe, and so he like he
everything you need to know about coffee. He knows men.
And so when we get with our beans and that
so basically what happens with beans. You've got specialty beans
and you've got commodity beans. And commodity is like what

(01:26):
most people drink with coffee, and it's essentially like a
it's almost like a stock that's traded, so it's like
a race to the bottom of like how can you
get the cheapest coffee to purchase that? So that's commodity, yes,
and that's this is specialty coffee.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Okay, which brings me my next question. Reading the story
of Grampy Coffee and this interest to me in the
story has said your quotas said, unlike many companies, the
prices we pay for our coffee are in no way
linked to the New York commodity market. Yes, now, is
this similar to like dairy farmer's situation where you know,
dairy farmers working their backsides off on farm and basically

(02:01):
being screwed by the big supermarkets.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
Is it similar to that, I'd like it to like
the wine, the wine industry, so relatively similar to So
I'm not that deep into it where I know the
pushes and pools of like in regards to the commodity
side of things. But what I do know in regards
to the commodity first or like if we try anywhere
we can to go direct to farmer, and what that
means is that sometimes there's middleman's and you have to
obviously use middleman sometimes because there's language. Barrieres all that.

(02:26):
But for example, in P and G we get this,
we get our beans directly from them farmers, and that's
to make sure that they get the money, especially with coffee,
because like coffee, you know, our beans are P and
G Brazil, Guatemala and Columbia, and so there are countries
that like, yeah, exactly, so you want to make sure
wherever you can that the people that are actually doing
the harvesting are getting the cash. And so what happens,

(02:47):
basically what makes it a specialty coffee is before they
kind of give you the beans. It has to have
a rating of over eighty four out of one hundred,
and so they basically the farmers will you know, they'll
check it and they'll have all their tests or whatever.
But then also once it gets to it's we tested
to make sure it's a specialty coffee. And yes, and
that's why I like the taste is so unique. I mean,

(03:10):
I'm not sure for me personally, when I taste it,
it tastes a little bit like a chocolate milkshake. After
that's the everyday one anyway, but you can it's it's
once you dive into the world of coffee, it is
like it's so interesting.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, I want to ask you, is it because you've
you've got the bloke beer? Yeah, what's a bigger market
because not everyone drinks beer. Yeah, but I suppose in
Australia most blokes do. But in terms of the market
must be way bigger with coffee.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yeah, it's an interesting one because the beer industry is
it's a The thing with beer is you might have
ten when you go somewhere, whereas you're not gonna have
ten coffees, so you actually may you know, it's hard
to judge as well, because like you've got you'll go
to a pub and you might have ten beers. You'll
also take a case home and you might have you know,
the whole case or two cases, whatever it is over

(03:57):
a long period of time.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Obviously that's discussed.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
Whereas a coffee, especially in specialty coffee, you need a machine,
like you need a coffee machine, you need a pod machine.
So it almost like starts beginning to like whittle down
the market size. Now, the instant coffee, i'd assume that's
probably like probably bigger, Yeah, but I think the actual
the specialty coffee industry, I actually think that might be
smaller than the beer industry. However, the beer industry is

(04:23):
shrinking a year on year because a lot of the
younger generation are becoming Yeah, they're becoming I guess more.
You know, they're not going to have ten to twenty
beers on a weekend. They might have you know, four
or five, and then they'll just pack it up. So
you get some of those salts in that. Yeah, yeah,
in the end of the market. Yeah mate.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
I love the ad beak with Moses Leoder and Fisher
Harris as you get ahead to get them to do
it hard to convince.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
You know, it's it's crazy, I'd literally so when I
come up with the brand, obviously, first of all, I
thought of belly Ache and Ricky Stewart. I was like, Maye,
that would be unbelievable. But I was like, obviously, you know,
like that their coaches, they're probably not going to And
then I thought of obviously Fish and Liota, and it
actually just stemmed from how much of a fan I
am of them and how much I actually believe they

(05:10):
deserve more praise for what they've achieved. I think, you
know often in rugby league and like it's just a
natural you know, at the end of the day, it's
an Australian league, so it's natural only that's you know,
state of origin is the pinnacle of it. But I
often think that like if you're a key Wee great
like they are, because you don't play in origin, a
lot of those conversations of greatness you don't get put in.

(05:30):
In reality, their resume is better than Webke club Land.
It's better than Webke, it's better than petro In like
web G you could say he won obviously more premierships,
but as a partnership anyway, as a partnership of course,
three Premierships in a row, four Grand finals in a row,
most likely five Grand finals in a row as a
front row pairing. So that's where it started off, Like

(05:51):
I would love these boys to be a part of
it because then obviously it puts them in front of
more people and just gets their personality out there.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
You're exactly right about Rugby League two State of Origin century.
We can't forget New Zealand thirty Australian mil.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
And who was a front row. Who was a front
row was Tarp and it was Leota and it was
Fisherharis yea and fisheris obviously captain the side to do that.
So yeah, that's where it started with wanting to get
those boys involved.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Speak your business, bloke, Can you just quickly go through
all the aspects? So this coffee, beer and you've got
the apparel.

Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yeah, so we've got we've got the beer. We've got
the beer is a very long play though, like that
with beer, it's you know, there is a kind of
I wouldn't say a myth, but there is an idea
that Okay, you raise a bunch of capital and then
you sell it to the big dogs. But The thing
is is when you raise a bunch of capital a
you dilute yourself as an owner. So every time you

(06:43):
raise let's just say a million dollars, you've got to
give part of that percentage that you own to whoever.
And by the time you raise all the money to
get kind of to scale, to get a part of
the market, you may only own like five ten percent
of the business. And so let's say you sell it
to a big dog, a big company. First of all,
the company might have a little bit of debt. Second
of all, you only own you know, anywhere from five

(07:05):
to ten percent of it, so you actually it's not
a myth. People do obviously make when they exit in beer.
They actually do make decent amount of money. However, the
way I see it, I'd rather see it as like
a long I want blow a beer to be seen
as VB in like fifty years. That would be awesome.
That's that's something that I would like to see rather
than just like building.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
It is a great drop too, it is, and it's
a great easy drink.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
You can drink.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
You can drink albit obviously drink responsibly, but don't drink
a hundred. But unless you want.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
To or over a long period of time, what did
you do about me responsibly?

Speaker 2 (07:34):
I don't know. I wasn't I was looking past you.
Which part of those aspects would you say is the
most successful? Your apparel the cop well, obviously the coffee
is just started. But I suppose the apparel of the beer,
because the apparel came first, right.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
No, the beer came first. The beer was before the Yeah, yeah,
the apparel came is just like a it's been a
fun thing like it. So we like, you know what,
let's get shirts and blow across the front of them.
And I remember this was years ago, So this was
like so this would have been out five years ago.
And this is when I still had the studio in
my second bedroom, which is the second iteration of the
first iteration of bloke ad these like pop up and

(08:10):
it wasn't even bloke. It was the locker room, these
pop up walls that I would put behind guests to
make it look like that they'd come to the studio,
but in reality, I'd gone to their lounge room, or
I'd gone to a hotel. And that was like seven
or eight years ago. And so the second iteration was
in my second bedroom and I got warpaper that looked
like wood, but it was just like war paper anyway.
So yeah, it was like, you know, let's get some
shirts and what we'll do is we'll pre sell them.

(08:31):
And pre sell them is basically you put them up
and however people purchase them, then you go and get
them made, because otherwise, if you go and get them
made first and you make too many, you could be
sitting on them, or if you make too little, people
get pissed off because they're like, mate, I couldn't get
it anyway. So we put the shirts up and I
literally I remember waking up the next morning. I didn't
even think about it because it was such a okay,

(08:52):
if they want to awesome, if they want it. Anyway,
I remember checking the shopify the next morning and I
called the guy that was helping me, which is which
is Cooper Greenberg, Todd Greenberg's son. Oh wow, yeah, yeah,
so he's he was the blowing. So the blowing was
my I used to that was his name, the Blowing.
He used to help me with the podcast. Anyway, he's
incredibly successful now he's studying law everything, killing it anyway,

(09:15):
So yeah, I remember ringing him going like, I think
there's a mistake here that it looks like like there's
been some money put in or whatever. This is weird
by how much we've sold. And he's like he checked
it and he was like, oh crap, No, that's real.
That's how much you've actually sold. And I couldn't believe it.
And then I was like, oh, man, like people actually
really really want like like this brand. This is cool.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
It's interesting. I was put to a very very clever
bloke once who's successful in business, and he said, when
you go into business, he said, like crossing the road,
you look left, you look right, and look left again.
And I'm like, what's he talking about? He said, Oftentimes
you're going to a business and you're focused on one aspect.
He said, but right behind you or do you right
hand side? There's the thing that should be doing. Yeah,

(09:56):
you get so infatuated. Can I ask you on that
book the first order, the first jersey or shirts you
put out or hoodies, how many did it sell? And
how many do you sell? Now?

Speaker 3 (10:10):
Okay? So we so our jerseys, which are our biggest
selling I think the most we sold was three thousand
in a drop when we first started. I think it
would have been about, you know, two or three hundred shirts.
The jerseys are like the most successful that they're like,
people love them. And I don't forget that date at
the Cafe Holy So that we had. So we got

(10:35):
an original jersey that's about seven year old that's black
and white, but the og jersey that most people know
is our colors with a V. Anyway, we were getting
ready having a feed before the show on a Friday morning,
and this lady almost sprints across the road.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Crazy woman.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
She had a jersey on. I had a jersey on.
She sprints across the road like she would have been
maybe seventy sixty seventy, and she's like, oh my god,
I loved the colors and like falling over this jersey.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Incredible. I thought it was a g up you've gone.
I just love it. I love it.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
I can't be planted.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
Yeah planted, I was on mate. I couldn't believe. And so, yeah,
she that jersey for us is obviously I most requested.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
But what a way that you and your wife met.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
You what's been the craziest thing you've said, Like, have
you ever seen someone really famous wearing or you've seen
it in a real bizarre place.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
Like just bloke in general. I'm trying to think, like
I think, Look, the craziest thing I ever saw, which
I just could not believe was in a cricket Test
match when I think it was Manus was doing a
little goosey when the goosey was big. That when I
was I just couldn't believe that, Like you know, I
just that to me was like, that's a test there's

(11:47):
a Test match going on and they're having a little
joke with a little goosey.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
That was when it really just blew my mind. I
just couldn't believe that the Test match was gone on
and someone's doing a bloody goosey. That was something that
I still to this day, just that old goosey thing
that happened was just well you.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Wouldn't You might not have seen it as much, Dad,
But like on social media, like Bee would be created,
You created a lot of like memes and trends like
he actually come up with obviously Joey and like I said, oh,
you know the cheese. But then that off season, after
the cheese we won the camp. Any just at any
point of the day, Bee would just post a picture

(12:23):
of cheese like these these funny as pictures of him,
just go I wonder what the cheese is doing right now,
Probably something hectic, and that's where hectic cheese came from.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
So a lot of different trends like be just and
the goosey, like you you turn the goosey into just
what was the goosey?

Speaker 3 (12:38):
So a goose step like David Campeazy, like the like,
and we all knew what a goosey was when we're
playing me back in the day, me and Josh Hoffman
at the Broncos, we used to just do it as
a g up and we'd just be like, you know,
just do it funny as a goosey. But it was
just it was just normal. No one talked about it,
and then it wasn't untill I would. So basically I

(12:58):
started reacting to like players highlights and like young guys
coming through and when they did the goosey, you know,
I would just carry on and be like, oh, the goosey,
And then I just caught and people because like I
don't know, for some reason, a lot of the community
didn't have a name for it, but it was always
called the goose step. I just caught it the goosey.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
Camp easy was that when it really came to prom.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Yeah, exactly, So it was always called the goose step
and I just caught it a goosey and then and
then it just exploded. So we're talking like maybe even
tens of thousands, but thousands of videos of people filming
themselves doing goosies and tagging blow.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
But think like think like the old turbo video down
the cours, Like people drunk on a night out would
just film themselves doing goosies in the pub and then
it like on a Saturday night you're like bloken a
bar's feed, Like their stories would just be thousands of goosies.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
Just goosies everywhere, and it's it's funny because I don't
like there's actually a rugby page that claims to be
the king of the Goosey. That's it's quite big. And
so he has a whole brand built around the good
see right now, So he goes around to rugby games
and literally like does goosey and rates people's goosies in
that like he's built a living off You're welcome. Yeah,
you know what's crazy is we actually own the trademark

(14:11):
to Goosey as well, so.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
We should sue him now, Dan, And like, let's want
to talk about the origins of the business and how
it's progressed in a different form. But to talk about
the business how you got there, we've got to talk
about regular argue career. We won't dwell on it too long.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
But there's not much to dowell on too.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
But you did have a good career. But we don't,
as you said, we want to focus more on Bloke.
But three clubs yea, Broncos, Warriors and Dragons drunker a sorry,
Dragons only very brief but Broncos and Warriors. What do
you see your primarily what do you see yourself yourself
primarily as a warrior or a Bronco?

Speaker 3 (14:48):
Bronco one hundred percent like and it's and respectfully, it's
like not even close. I don't like Broncos. Is Broncos
to me? They could treat me like absolute ship for
the rest of my life and they would I would
still consider them family. Like that's how much that club.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Means to Stockholm syndrome.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, pretty much that but that but that's how like
I can't express it's irrelevant how they feel about me
in my mind, it's all that matters is what they
mean to me. If you know what I'm saying, that's
how important and how much I cherish the club because
like it's it's hard to explain. It's it's almost like

(15:27):
you know, you've got pillars in your life, like your family,
your friends, like Broncos in my life is like a
pillar like that is it is a core foundation of
who I am. And I know it was only there
for a short time and compared to the legends, it's like,
you know, I'm a nobody player. But to me, it's
just I feel so incredibly honored to have worn the

(15:47):
same jersey as some of the boys that I got
to wear the same jersey as, Like I cannot express it.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Broncos Warriors, your coach by Wayne at the Broncos and
pretty good, pretty amazing. Yeah, you got too, Blake And
Ivan is I call him. I'm trying to get the
right word, but yeah, Ivan, when you talk about the
great coaches of all time, we go Bellamy, Bennett, Jack Gibson.
Now you're going to start talking about Ivan.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
Well, I think that the thing with Ivan, it's just
about amount of time. Really. I think I think the
reason why he doesn't get put in the goat status
is because it's all happened so quickly. But what I
think once he's been coaching, like the ironic thing is
a lot of people forget and you'd know this better
than anyone, but Ivan was actually touted as the next
big thing, almost Serraldo esque at his early years at

(16:32):
the Warriors and so like funny, like people think that
Ivan just almost be like suddenly became a great coach,
But early in the Warriors he actually first really took
the Warriors to a Grand Final. His early career as
a coach, Yeah, he was like considered one of the like,
this guy's going to be incredible, had a few years
where I feel like he had to learn some probably
hard lessons. I think that, like even me watching how

(16:55):
he coaches now, compared to what he was when I
was under him, I reckon he's learned a whole bunch.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
Well let's let like, I'm sorry, Ka, So you're Wayne
and you've got Ivan, right, ha, two iconic coaches now
for whatever reason, No man, how great a coaches. People
either have great experiences not so great experiences. They love them.
They think they're the guarnt or a little bit the
other way. Where did you sit? Firstly, with Wayne, where

(17:22):
do you see? Where do you see personally? Not as
far as other people projecting us, what about yourself?

Speaker 3 (17:30):
I see him as a young man, I saw him
as like incredible, you know, just just amazing at understanding
who I was the person and just appreciating me. I
think a lot of young men they just want to
be appreciated for who they are, and Wayne was incredibly
good at identifying like what does this young kid need
to hear? You know, as you get older, obviously you

(17:53):
get older, you get a bit more experienced, and you realize, like, yes,
you know, he is an incredible man manager. Yes he's
an incredible coach, but he's a ruthless coach too, and
he is there to win premierships. And when you're in,
when you're underneath him, it feels like a very real relationship.
And look, I'm sure it is to Wayne. I'm sure
it is to Wayne. But at the end of the day,
he is a ruthless coach that will do whatever to

(18:14):
win a premiership and that's his job. That's his job.
He's just really good at packing, packaging it in a
way that young men don't feel that.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
That's really interesting you say that because Andrew Webs, who
wrote his book, he asked me a few things about
argue about about Wayne, and I wasn't quoted on it.
It was just like what's you from your dealings with
other people? And Jack was coached by Wayne. It's very funny,
particularly with the broncos beak when he lets almost when

(18:47):
a player leaves or he lets them go or says
your times up, there's a real bitterness when they go away,
if that makes sense. And what I put it down
to is that when you're in the bosom of Wayne Bennett,
you are you are family and then all of a
sudden the day comes in the hammer falls some time
to move on, and they it's like, hang on, I'm

(19:08):
being kicked out of the family here.

Speaker 3 (19:09):
Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
It's like a girlfriend, like if it's like being in
a loving relationship and then leave that and it always
ends badly, badly healthy initially when you've been in a
club for a long long time and you've got to
love and you are and you have to leave. When
I left the nights have to be in there for
such a long time, and we were like family. I
understood what they wanted to say about the Scottish Highlands

(19:32):
when death. There was two things could have happened when
you when you played up with the tribe or something
bad happened. One is death or the other one, which
was worse, was being cast out of the tribe.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
And I never I used to laugh at that's stupid,
And when it happened to me to a certain extent,
I understood at one hundred. What about Ivan?

Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah, see, I think Ivan, I came to Ivan such
a bad personal space that I feel like, funnily enough,
like both of us didn't know how to communicate with
each other. Because when I got there it was good
and he was really understanding, and yeah it was an
exciting time. But because I was such a I wouldn't

(20:20):
probably I guess he would consider me an introvert. I
remember finding out that they'd call the Broncos asking like,
how do we get the best out of Dennin, Like
he's just so internal and I think, like I've been,
you know, being a relatively new coach at the time,
probably didn't know how to deal with a young kid
that had come from the Broncos and didn't put myself
out there. However, internally, you know, I was begging to

(20:41):
be appreciated, begging for them to want to, I guess
come to me like almost like when you look back now,
you go, you're an idiot, Like you should have put
yourself out there and shown how much you cared. But
as a young fellow, you just you expect them to
look at all the little things you do and go, oh,
clearly he does care. And so I think a lot
of it's hard for me to judge Ivan's coaching ability

(21:03):
because I was in such a bad headspace off the field.
I had a really bad relationship, like genuinely an abusive relationship,
not from my own, from the other end, and I
was in a whole new country as a twenty one,
twenty two year old. I'd only been playing rugby league
for three or four years, and I just wasn't ready
to deal with that. And so I think that Ivan

(21:25):
also didn't know how to react to that, because you know,
he just probably the boy has just probably assumed that
I hated being there, but in reality, like it was
just I probably just needed someone to put their arm
around me and bring me in. Now, it look really I.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Think you could sit in a room with Ivan and
if you didn't speak, then you could sit there for
hours and he wouldn't speak.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
Exactly, and so it's like almost the perfect storm for it,
like not to work to a degree, and so like, yeah,
Ivan was never like bad to me or whatever, but
at the same time, like, how can you coach a
guy that's in a really bad headspace new to rugby league,
is not reaching out, not reaching out, not communicating. But
in my head, I'm just hoping they're looking at my

(22:06):
actions and going, Okay, he does care, like you know.
So yeah, and also it was a weird situation too
because like we had Manu Vadavor on the other wing,
and so it was like, if you're going to get
another wing with Manu Vada, you don't get a try
score that can finish tries. You get a you get
a workhorse, and so it was almost like why would
you bring you know, so if you're ive and you're like, well,

(22:27):
all of our players are to the big man at
the beast of course, and it's almost like pointless to
have me on another wing because that's that was my
job for the Broncos at the time. And so Yeah,
it just didn't work. Like obviously, you know, I don't
think you could. I'm not going to sit here and
say that they were perfect as well. I just think
that if I had to put myself out there more,
I think I would have got more out of the Warriors.

(22:48):
And most of it was my fault, like ninety five
percent of it was my fault.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
It's your best highlight.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
I want to talk to you about that. Was it
against the Eels? Was it on the buzzer Darren Lockew
The buzzer goes you guys are down by a couple
of points at the time, he does a little crossfield kick,
bounces up for you, other big scores in the corner.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
Yeah, what'd ask? Is that your career highlight of your
It's actually not, it's actually not. Yeah, No, it's obviously
it's my career highlight to you know, everyone else, because
like it was such a big moment. But my career
highlight was actually for me personally, was when so I'd
gone to the Warriors and it didn't work out. And
I just want to reiterate the Warriors as a club
were incredible, like such a family orientated club, so caring

(23:28):
that made the move over there the best, like the
easiest thing ever. As I said, I was just in
a terrible headspace anyway, So that didn't work out. And
they were really good. They're like, yep, sweet, we will
help you you get back to where you need to go.
Funnily enough, like getting back to the Broncos was a
bit bizarre because I had a manager that basically told
me that they weren't interested. And I was like, hang
on a sec. When I left the Broncos, like they

(23:48):
literally said to me, anytime you want to come back,
like we want you back. And I had to call
the Broncos myself and say, what's going on here? Like
you said that anytime I want to come back, I
come back. And so they were like what do you mean?
And I was like, well, my manager's telling me that
you're not interested. They're like, one hundred percent we want
you to come back, And like a whole other bunch
of stuff happened, like genuinely, like I had a deal

(24:09):
already done with the Bulldogs. It was it was like
basically it was agreed to. Everything was agreed to, so
much so that even players at the Bulldogs knew about it.
And then all of a sudden, I get a call
from a manager saying, oh sorry, deal's falling through. I
was like, what they hell? Then two days later he's
another winger he has on his books, get to deal
with the Bulldogs. That doesn't happen, No, not at all,

(24:29):
and so like so it was just in a crazy headspatter.
I had this a terrible relationship. You know, I'd failed
at the Warriors and a lot of people you know,
were really unhappy with me as a signing, and so
going back to the Broncos on minimum like so desperate,
I was like, look, I'll go back on minimum. You
don't even have to pay me match payments. I just
want to come back and play for the Broncos. I
don't care what to take. So I come back, fight

(24:50):
my way back into the round one starting side, and yeah,
I scored the match greener against the Cowboys in round one.
And that's that's my career highlight because it was just
a reminder I guess to myself that you know, I'd
been through a little bit off the field and all
the drama and everything, and I came back to the
Broncos and almost proved like okay, yeah, I didn't play
that well the Warriors. But I proved to myself that

(25:11):
I am a good NFL player and I still got it.
I guess so that that was my career highlight, twenty
ten round one mattern against the Cowboys.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
So you retired young. The day you decided to retire,
you know what occurred? Was there a moment of clarity?
Was discontent? What was it at the time?

Speaker 3 (25:32):
Yeah, I don't think there was ever a day. It
was almost just like a you know, it was just
such a bad headspace. I was just like over it.
I just just didn't care. I didn't want to be
a part of it anymore. Just so many things had
happened in my career where like I just I got
unlucky in the circumstance, Like you know, I was certain
things were promised and agreed to and all that stuff.

(25:54):
I've just been through so much that I was disillusioned
with it and I and that's like, I guess why
I had such a fun time for re memory of
my first time with Wayne at the Broncos because that
was really the only time where I felt like I
was understood and appreciated. Even though he promised me certain
things and they didn't come through. So, like you know,
it's just part of the it's part of the when
you're a guy, when you're a small winger that isn't

(26:16):
playing Origin or whatever, like, you do get bounced around
and treated pretty poorly because it's such a brutal business.
And so I was just disillusioned with it. I just
I just I was so disappointed, and I felt betrayed
by quite a few people in different circumstances, and like
so many things happened like like that. I mean, you
could see for thirty minutes talking about you know, contracts

(26:37):
being promised, money being promised, being betrayed by people you're
supposed to get trusted, you're supposed to be trusting. And
so I got to the point where was like, I
just can't do this anymore. I was just betrayed and
disillusioned with the game. And so I just was like,
I'm just done.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
I do feel for you guys. You speak, You're you're
at the very probably beginning of where the game is
at the moment. Where the game is is long, long
days in there meetings, the ruthlessness of what is brought
on by cap the deceptions and deceitful natures of some

(27:09):
managers out there and all of it combined, all that together,
and I think to myself sometimes I wonder how many
people out there are really enjoying their careers. I was
in an interview with Matt Gidley with Jimmy Graham the
other day and when Gibs was talking about his career
and coming into the team at Newcastle, it just reminded
me of so many good stuff and when he spoke
about when he spoke about that side at Newcastle, ninety

(27:32):
five of the stuff, ninety percent of the stuff he
was talking about was off the field because we were
a family. And it's still although it was a professional sport,
it still felt like fun and it felt like a pastime.
It was a game. So yeah, I can understand where
you're coming from there. Let's talk about the years in

(27:59):
between your two high profile careers as bloke and professional
rugby league. Tell me that they used how would are they?
What's more accurate? Lost years? Tough years, years of tears,
fun years, Oh.

Speaker 3 (28:17):
Terrible years. Terrible years, just completely lost, you know, because
I'd played sport at such a high level from like
a five, like pretty much from five years old, like
my whole life was it revolved around sport like it
was from literally five years old, Like it wasn't. It
wasn't like, oh, you know, I'm coming down to play
for fun. It was like I'm coming down to play
as best as I can play and win by as

(28:38):
much as I can win by. And so when you're retired,
just like, what's what am I even on the earth for?
Like what's the point of anything? Like I identify as
an athlete. If I'm not doing that, then then who I?
Who am I? And I think that, like it's so
deeply ingrained in me anyway, personally, in my heart of hearts,
I still see myself as an athlete even though I'm not.
I'm the furthest thing from iact. Look at me further

(28:59):
s from.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Can I ask you, Dan, what was this? Because you
were quite young? What was the decision? Was it just
falling out of love with the game itself or was
it you know, you wanted to do something else? Like
what was your decision to leave it?

Speaker 3 (29:14):
It was it was just like falling out of love
with the game, falling in love with everything around it,
really bad mental headspace, just like all it's just a trifecta.
Like it was just a dark, bad, sad time in
my life and I just I just didn't really have
because the problem was is that when you come across
from soccer, you just you don't know the culture. Like,
for example, if I'm a manager, what manager tells a

(29:36):
twenty one year old go and take a contract with
New Zealand Warriors when you've played rugby league for three years?
Like whereas now, because I've been in the game for
long enough, I would tell a young kid be patient.
You know, yes, the Broncos have told you the third
winger in line, but it's okay. Just stay there, just
stay stay exactly, just stay there, you're around your family,
you've only been playing a lot rugby for three or

(29:57):
four years, or you know, even little things like you know,
when the Warriors initially offered me the contract, I said
yes to my manager, yep, sweet. And then like I
started playing really well and was getting way bigger offers,
and even Wayne sat me down and said, if you
want to come to the Dragons, I'd love to have you.
And like, because I was a man of my word,
like I said no, I've already said yes, So like

(30:18):
I missed out on all this money. And look, I'm
still happy with that decision because I would probably make
the same one. However, like you know, I think a
lot of being in the game long enough and understanding
the culture of rugby league. There's so much about it
that I just didn't know. I had no connections either
to lean on, Like there was no there was no
scout that says I've watched his kid since he was

(30:39):
six years old, or there was no oh, I know
his family. Because so I was just like pretty much
I just a kid by myself in rugby league, just
doing me best.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
Really, what did you do in those in between years?
What jobs?

Speaker 3 (30:50):
I was electrician? So I did my electoral apprenticeship. I
only got to like the third year. But it was
just yeah, it just wasn't for me. Like as I said,
I was just just a dark, dark period in my
life where I waking up at four o'clock driving our
half out to the site, living away from home in
like this little motel, you know. And as an athlete
that like had such success growing up as a kid.

(31:12):
You know, I'd won state championships, I won national championships.
It was just like, how did I get here? When
you know, there was a period there in two thousand
and eight where I was like close getting selected for
Queens then, and so I was just like, how did
you get here? Like you're in a motel doing a
job you hate and you should have been so much
more than this. But then there was also a part

(31:32):
of me that had seen my other family members, like
my brother had gone over to England for soccer and
he'd actually got it off a contract from Norwich, and
here he had knocked that back because he, you know,
again just inexperience, where because my father hadn't really been
in sport that much. He did, he did his best,
but he didn't know sport either. So like, for example,

(31:53):
if my son's over in England right now and he
gets a contract from Norwich, I'm saying hang in there
just a year, like I'll come over there or whatever.
Whereas because we didn't know, my brother got homesick, so
he came home and he became a doctor. So seeing
that that did give me hope of like, well, if
my brother can do it. Like I think a lot
of people rugby league players when they retire, like they

(32:14):
hold onto the game a little bit longer because in
their head. They're like, there's nothing else I can't there's
nothing else, Like, Okay, I can go be a trade
that doesn't compare to being a rugby league player playing
inn roh blah blah blah. And so there was that
hope that I had with sport where I could go
go into something bigger and better. But yeah, for about
two or three years, it's just just super dark, sad, depressed,

(32:34):
until I just said, you know what, I'm gonna give
podcasting a crack? Is that?

Speaker 2 (32:38):
And where did the idea of bloke come from? Like
when did you go? When did you go right a podcast?
And then how did you come up with that whole concept?

Speaker 3 (32:46):
So I was working on a Marulan so on above
ground mine, and so what I would do is is
I had like a beanie on and obviously this fucking
safety will kill would have killed me if they had
a known, but I had less headphones and under it
was so cold there all the time, apparently it's one
of the coldest places in the country on average. I
had this beanie on under my heart hat and I'd
have wireless headphones and I would just listen to like

(33:08):
Joe Rogan all day. The first podcast. This is like
tuesdenty thirteen, fourteen. I would just be listening to podcasts
all day. Why because I was an apprentice and mature
age of printance, so I just get all the monotonous tasks,
just like cutting cables, pulling cable and just to just
absolute brain numbing stuff. And so I just yeah, I
was listening to podcasts, and initially, you know, maybe it

(33:28):
was a bit of a projection, but I was like, oh, man,
like I'd love to do a podcast where I sit
down and hear people's stories. I've always been really interested
in people's stories, and I feel like it doesn't matter
where you're from or what you do, everyone's got a
really interesting story if they're willing to tell it. Then
I was like, well then I've got to compete against
anyone that does that. But my point of difference is
I could do rugby league players. And then I was
a real there's a real urge to kind of like

(33:50):
tell rugby league players' stories. I felt like rugby league
players were super misunderstood, like you know, the media essentially
had full control over the rugby league image, and I
wanted people to get to know rugby league players and
get to hear their stories and almost change their opinions
to a degree. And as I said it, it might have
been a bit of a projection of like, you know,
wanting my story to be kind of heard to a degree.
And so yeah, that's kind of where it clicked. Put

(34:12):
everything on a credit card because I was mature, like apprenticeships, wages. Yeah,
put everything on a credit card, build everything up. And
then I sat on it for a couple months because
I was scared, like you know, you get to you're
about to jump off the plank, but you're just like,
oh shit, I'm about to jump off the plane. Because
once I get started, I'm not I'm going to stop.
And so I promised myself, look, i'll give it two years.

(34:34):
Obviously I'll keep working full time. I'll give it two years.
At the very worst, I'll at least have like a
thousand people that listen to the podcast, and I can
advertise my electrical company too, So like there was a
there was a worst case scenario.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
And yeah, that's it's funny because the podcast obviously then
was there's nowhere near as big as that is now,
particularly in Australia, like there's rugby league podcasts everywhere now,
but you were kind of the one of the first
ones there. And how long did it take for you
to then start making a bit of money off the podcast?
And then at what point was it like, fuck, a
lot of people are listening.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
To this, Oh man, So it took I think it
took about two years to make a bit of money
off the podcast. But even then, like people like so
like so I had the podcast, I would put up
to the podcast and I wouldn't even think about it
because no one knew what a podcast was back then.
So I actually focused more on the clips that I
would put on my Facebook page, and they were just

(35:26):
like three to five minute clips of people telling their story.
And honestly, some of the early first couple of years, seriously,
you might get two or three hundred downloads, you know,
whereas now you're getting like, you know, a Monday show
gets anywhere from like seventy to eighty thousand downloads every
single Monday. But yeah, that was for a few years. Honestly,
It probably wasn't until like two thousand and twenty twenty one,

(35:50):
were really just the momentum just clicked into gear and it,
you know, pretty much is it's like this like for
for so long, for like four or five years, and
then just born, we just hit momental.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
Rock and roll bands or artists describe that as when
the wave kicks in. Yeah, they always say, you know,
like your paddle, your paddling against the surf, you paddling
against the stream. But all of a sudden, when you're
on the wave, it's almost like effortless, we're away.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, it's I'll tell you what my job's like, Like,
I do a lot more of it, but it's much
easier now than it was when I started, because I
was editing everything I was doing. I was setting everything up,
put it all down, get back home, go to sleep,
wake up, go to work the next day.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
Okay, So you come out of a high pressure environment
in rugby league, and we know what high pressure environments
can do, and as you said, you come out of
it really really knocked around. We all have different things
that sit inside us, things that you know, there's whatever reason.
We get up some days and we're feeling great, and
these other days we're not feeling so great. We're feeling
a little down and sometimes hard to pull yourself out

(36:52):
of that. For you, oftentimes, what can change of mood
is stress and is pressure what you've gone through, you know,
in those really difficult years of discontent in rugby leagues,
spilling in discontent what you're doing as an electrician, do
you have to basically keep a check yourself that that
person doesn't come back during with all the pressure of

(37:15):
what you do.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
I don't feel anywhere near the way I used to
felt as an electrician. Like it's I've never since the like,
since I've been able to do this full time, I've
never ever felt anywhere close to how bad I felt
in the years when I was a sparky. So like, yeah,
there's there's very rarely a morning where I wake up
and I'm just like, oh, I don't want to do
this or whatever. Really the only the only negative of

(37:41):
you know, being an entrepreneur or whatever. You know, I
don't hate they were, but like being an entrepreneur is
just is the financial stress of it. Like, and so
there were years early on where you know, we had
the bar and you know, I'd come up there to
help my brother out because he owned the bar before
it and it didn't work out, and we had this
five year lease, hundreds and hundreds of thousand dollars in
debt and I was up there to help him. So

(38:02):
that was stressful, you know.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
So where was the barn?

Speaker 3 (38:05):
Yes, the bar would have been. So I started the
podcast I think twenty fourteen fifteen, and then the bar.
So we'd started the beer actually around twenty sixteen or so,
and then my brother opened a bar, a Spanish tabis
bar and Broadbeach and it just it went pair shape.
He went with a business partner, it didn't work out whatever,
and so my brother was left with this lease and
this bar, and he had financially he funded it all

(38:26):
and the partner was supposed to run it, but the
partner it just didn't work out, and so my brother
was basically left with this lease and all the financial
liability of it all. And I was like, well, I
can't let my brother, you know, do that. That's my brother.
So I was like, looks and I'll come up. I
just needs you to change it from a tabas bar
to a like a bloken, a bar with beer, and
then obviously in exchange, I'll give your percentage ownership of

(38:48):
Bloke and so that was all good. So we did that.
At the time that I was actually I was with it.
My ex partner at the time that ended up breaking
up during that period as well. And yeah, so when
I took the bar over, it was more just about
settling the ship because he had this five year lease
and like when you got the five year lease, you
can't just not pay it, like it's a huge lease.

(39:09):
You got to pay and he's financing it all by himself,
And so that was an incredibly stressful time. Like funnily enough,
I never felt as down as I did when I
was doing my electrical work. And to be clear, I
haven't like there's plenty of blokes I've got such admiration
for that were sparkys. It just wasn't my cup of tea.
But yeah, so the bar the stresses of that though,

(39:31):
and like the family like got to a point where
you know, you've got to ring your father, who also
doesn't have that much money, or your mother who doesn't
have money much money at all. And at one point,
like I was living in my family's home and they
were living in their parents' home and I couldn't pay rent.
But the rent that I was supposed to pay that
they used to get from people that used to live there,
because I moved up from will and gone to the
Gold Coast. That used to be money that my mum

(39:52):
was given just to live on because I couldn't pay rent.
She wasn't getting any money. And then my dad likes
so just got to the point where like the whole
family's in involved. And yeah, at some state at point
you could tell my family was like you got to walk, like,
find a way to walk away from this because it's
just draining everything. And we just hung in there, hung
in there, hung in there.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
To affect your relationship with your brother.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
Didn't affect it at all. Made it stronger, made it stronger.
You know that we always we always knew that both
of us would walk away from Bloke before it affected
our relationship. And yeah, and we it just made it stronger.
And now we know, like we could have an agreement
without any paperwork and it would never ever come like

(40:35):
it would never know. People say that, but I know
for a fact it wouldn't been up.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Again, I hate to dominate this conversation, right, it's just
things coming into my head all the time. What was
it like Dannan with the bar, dealing with the public,
not just dealing with the public, dealing with the public
and alcohol.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
You know what's funny is we actually got We only
have had one fight out the front and it lasted
about a second. For some reason, we didn't have many dramas.
I don't know what it was. We just didn't have
that many dramas. It's actually like, although it was a
really tough time and it was so much stress, and
you know, the only way we got out of it

(41:15):
is obviously people came. We investors saw Like, so a
bloke walked into my bar one day and he just said,
would you ever be interested in investors that I've got
an accountant for a bloke and he wants to get
into a beer. Would you be interested? And at the
time I'm thinking this is bullshit, Like what are you
talking about? Anyway? So this was just a random day
where it's quiet. I gave him my card, Sorry, he

(41:35):
gave me his card. No, sorry, I gave him my
card and he's like, all right, sweet And eventually the
guy called me. His name's John, and we just started
talking and they invested in Bloke and became partners in
Bloke And that is so basically what was happening is
we will getting to a point where it's like there's
no attorney we are. Everyone's gone bust. Everyone's gone bust.

(41:57):
And then somehow, some way, someone saw the vision came
in I don't know, like just randomly, like they didn't
know what was happening. They just saw the branding and
the vision. They loved the idea that I had.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Yeah, so it was the branding in the vision. Did
he ever tell you what was the thing that really
just went Okay, you.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
Know this is going to sound super I don't know. Well,
he's meat, he said to you. It's not. It has
nothing to do with the brand or like, obviously the
brand helps and that helps, but he said, just your mind,
that's what we invest in. We we invest in people,
invest in people, and we and you're different, and there's
certain people that are entrepreneurs and there certain people aren't.

(42:39):
And you are one bloke.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
Why why did you have that name? Because you yeah,
but look why why originally was it called.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
That may so? Basically so sand or Earl? He contacted me.
So I was doing the podcast. It's such a weird story.
Do you ever listen to his podcast?

Speaker 1 (43:00):
A Fire?

Speaker 2 (43:01):
He asked about six episodes.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Coop had one too. At the same time called fuel
blow Caviat.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
Yeah, I tried to rival him, saying I was going
to start one where people who have never had hardship.

Speaker 3 (43:10):
And they just talk about how great their life is,
good times and like white people can play. So yeah,
So with sand Or, he he contacted me and he's like, mate,
I'd love to do a show. You know, we can
talk about sport and footy. And at that stage, I
never wanted to be an ex player that bagged the

(43:30):
current lot and look, there's a difference between critiquing and bagging.
And I always remember at the Broncos how often we
would walk into training and we'd see an ex player like,
I can't believe such and such got caught in the
drink doing this, And as a playing grip, we'd go
that guy like we mate, we know for a fact
you were worse than us, and you have the audacity

(43:51):
to congreence. Then when you when a player like our
mate stuffed up. And so in my head I was
like I said to scene Or, look, I'd never want
to be an ex player that does that. And so
I wasn't confident in my ability to kind of analyze
sport without being too critical and so I said, this
is what I do. I'll create a show for you.
Eric Growth as well got involved and two champion Yeah

(44:13):
absolutely and said well, and so I said what I
do boys is I'll come up with the concept. I'll
come up with the idea. I'll send you the equipment
you to film everything, the microphones, and then you just
send it to me. I'll edit all and I'll post
it on my social media. Help you helpe, you go
your profile, everything, blah blah blah. And so we were

(44:34):
just like, what's what's the name? What's the name, And
just randomly, just randomly, halfway between sleep and being awake,
bloken a bar just came to me. And I just
love the concept of a bloke in a bar because
there's something special in Australian culture about a bloke in
a bar and it means so much to everyone, Like

(44:55):
it could be for us it's talking about sport, but
for a woman it could be your meta bloken a
bar or I mean, we've all got a story about
a bloken a bar, but also you are a bloken
a bar. And so that's how I come up with
the name bloken a bar.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
It's funny in this pain of the ass woke world.
Do you ever get any pushback?

Speaker 3 (45:14):
Mate? You know what? None? Absolutely, that's encouraging and it is.
I look, I think it is because like we don't
get involved in any of that stuff. We're here to
talk about sport and we're here to be positive and
we'll never get involved in that kind of stuff. My
belief is is that I want to provide positive change

(45:35):
by making blokes or whoever listens happy each day. That's
my contribution to positive change. And I might in my
personal opinion, it's the strongest way to create positive change
is to just make more people happy. You know, a
happy person is going to be negative to less people
around him, in my opinion. And so yeah, we just

(45:55):
yeah we've been super lucky or have had no issues,
and yeah, we just never never going to wait into
any of that kind of stuff. I'm actually a raging conservative.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
When you worked in with your maga hat, when you're successful,
you can get Dad calls them dirt bags, gumbags. They're
like vultures that have come and feast on your delicious
fruit in your carcass. Have you had many people that
come and sort of have looked the dodgy cats said, hey,
we're looking to invest or, would you like to buy
into this? And they're just trying to make a bit

(46:30):
of money.

Speaker 3 (46:31):
Not that many because I don't actually I don't actually
network that much or anything. I actually don't get out
much at all. But I've had, you know, I've had.
The main thing I've dealt with and you know, I'm
sure you guys will probably deal with it too, is
a lot of people just think you're stupid because you're
a footy player. And I actually like it because it's
it's always good at a business table for people to
think you're dumb. It's always good. You'd rather people think

(46:54):
you're dumb than smart.

Speaker 1 (46:55):
I'll tell your story about that, right Crocodile. Paul Hogan
and a lot of younger people don't know this name,
but John Cornell. John Cornell was a genius, junius television
maker and producer and he was the man with actually
one of the key figures behind world series Cricket. But
also he had the Paul Hogan Show, and he and

(47:17):
Hagues were just a great double act heat if you
What's Hogan show. He was the guy had light life
saver cap on and just took and he was stropped
until we talked. He was sort of like that that
don't be made of hoagues. Well, they had this concept
on to make a movie, Crocodile of Undea, so they
went to the States to pitch it. And when they

(47:39):
sat down, the people at the table, the Australians who
were there with all these American movie executives, apparently one
bumped each one bumped the other and not over a
john and just went and they sort of smirked, and
they honestly thought, have a look at this Australian country
bumpkin idiot. Two hours later they walked out of that meeting,

(48:04):
looked at each other and just one of them said,
what the fuck just happened to us? He just he
did that gould a job on him, and of course
it just it raked in cobious amounts of money.

Speaker 3 (48:16):
Yeah, for sure. And I you know, initially, when you know,
you get into certain meetings and they do treat you
a little bit like an idiot, obviously, your ego gets
a little bit like they're going to seck, like, you know,
I feel like I've done some pretty good stuff. But
then you know, eventually just go. It's a it's a
genuine advantage. It's a genuine not to suggest I'm some
fucking genius. I'm not. Just just they treat you. Most
people look at footy players and go and to be fair,

(48:38):
we don't help ourselves. But yeah, just is what it is.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
On the radio show one day and they got a
professor on who was the carry out the champion in
this FM quiz and it was it was It wasn't
a Sydney ratus that was out And they got me
on and they were interview me and I just root
all the way through it, and then at the end
they said, well just hang around after the break we're
going to have the quiz and the interviews introduced this
professor and he basically been unbeaten for two years and

(49:03):
they were laughing, going, oh we've got the professor against
the idiot.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
Well believe I beat him. Really.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
I remember a lot of the questions. What is it was?
What is the biggest inland city in Australia Canberra auh.
It was a question about you know, what is the song?
What city is the someone who museum is Well I
was there a few years ago Madrid, and the poor
professor he didn't know what hit him, he was getting
punked rolled, he got rolled by an idiot that he did.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
Who's the most impressive person you've ever interviewed?

Speaker 3 (49:39):
Dinner? Ah, that's impressive. I mean obviously, Maddie, of course. Okay,
I'll be honest. You know, I had Paul Gallan on early,
I had Brad Fhiler on really all. I always appreciate that, Like,
you know, this was really on in the podcast. I

(50:01):
can't even remember how I got in contact with Freddie
Filler and he just said, yeah, sweet no Worries got
him on, which is incredible. Anythony Mundine in the first
few like that was mind blowing. Just message on Facebook
and he was like, yeah, bright, no worries, what great fella.
And he gave me, he literally gave me such good content.
It was on the news. It was that I don't
know if you remember it, but it was that quote

(50:22):
where he said, I used to be Jonathan Thurson but
with twin turbos. You probably don't remember it, but he said,
and so I tell you what though, you actually go
back to Mundine's career and what he achieved at such
a young age. I know a lot of people liked
I can't make he was unbelievable. Unbelievable. James C. Guiaro

(50:45):
was a big one. Like his story just I just
never forget him talking about sitting on the front of
his Like so apparently his father was a relatively wealthy
man in P and G and then some business deals
went really wrong and got screwed over and they lost
all everything they had. I think he moved to Australia
and I think he might have been living with some
foster parents. And just hearing him say he used to

(51:06):
sit on the front porch and watch the other kids
go to school and he was jealous, and it just
always that was like a real just like Jeers, like
I was so lucky you and myke bringing. I know
it sound selfish to like go back to how you
you know it reflects you, But just to hear that
story and where he ended up in his incredible career,
that was a really interesting chap for me.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
That's amazing. Yeah, you just don't know people, do You.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
Just have no idea, Like like there's something that you
take the not even take for granted, something that I
used to hate going to school. He's sitting there going
I wish I could go to school coman. Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah,
He's definitely one that I always look back on. Go.
You know, that was pretty incredible. But I mean the
thing with rugby league is like there are so many
incredible stories because it's such a you know.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
It's crazy game.

Speaker 3 (51:51):
It's such a real sport. You know, it's it's from
a you know, most it's from lower low socio economic
kind of area.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
What about an interview that didn't go the way you suspected.
I was going to say, like a well thought it
would the most difficult interview. And now when I mean difficult,
I don't necessarily mean that they sat down there and
they just didn't want to talk. An example of that,
I interviewed Elise Perry one day, who was just amazing,
the great you know, greatest female cricket of all time,

(52:21):
the cigar phil Sobers of the female game, and she
was just so unbelievably modest, eerily modest, and so to
be like, I'd ask the question Lisa Maddire, Look, I
appreciate it. I don't think so I'm going, oh no,
but we ended up getting a going. But it was

(52:42):
an example like for me, it was like, you, silly bastard,
you need to do more research. I never knew she
was going to be so that she was so pure,
purely modest.

Speaker 3 (52:52):
Yeah. Look, I've had interviews that I actually haven't released.
Obviously won't say who, but I was a young fella
and he doesn't play or anything anymore whatever, but yeah,
he he was just bragging about certain things, and I
was like, mate, if you if this gets released, people
are going to be like, what the hell are you
bragging about?

Speaker 2 (53:11):
Off field stuff?

Speaker 3 (53:13):
Yeah, just just you know, fighting and all this kind
of stuff. And I was just like, what the hell
are you thinking of yourself? And look, he was a
young fellow sin so like, you know, it might have
been nervous and just trying to you know, some young
men obviously they beat their chest a little bit. And
don't get me wrong, this guy had every right to
you was a bloody good fighter. But yeah, it was

(53:35):
just that was just one of those interviews where I
was like, probably, like I could have released it and
it could have helped me for sure, but I was
just worried about I didn't want him to be seen
in a negative like because I knew he was young
and he probably didn't understand how it was looking. Actually
I interviewed Zaratha before the first tim Zoo fight that

(53:55):
was put together that he pulled out of, and I
didn't least that that was That was a weird one
because it was a mixture of you know, I was
I couldn't believe that he just pulled out of the
tim Zoo fight. I've actually interviewed the RAFA since and
he was he was super polite, super nice. But yeah,
I just again, even though it would have been probably

(54:16):
good views for me to put up him talking about
tim Zoo, even though and then he's pulled out, because
like he's pulled out, and then I put up him
going well, this is what he said five days ago.
But I was just like, you know what, like, I'm
not in this business to get clicks and views like that.
I'd rather get in a positive way. So I just
didn't put it up.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
Well, you have such a great relationship with sports people,
not just rugby league players, and I think that is
crucial to it is that it just really irritates me
so much when people use their podcast for a sugar
hit and you know a lot of people would sit
there and that young player would have been talking about
bashing guys and stuff like that, and they would have

(54:53):
been thinking this is just gold. We're going to put
this out. But you know, the next guy comes along
and we've seen podcast there was one going around with
one play and it is it is awful because he
literally walked into an ambush. Yeah, and he was sitting
there just going what is happening now? I can't imagine

(55:14):
those two people getting another person on. No. Well, that's
what a lot of those podcasts do.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
Like as soon as you get someone in rugby league
and you thrown under the bus like that, everybody find
everybody in rugby league. Even though you're at separate team,
separate locations, everyone talks like so much. Shit just flies
around so quickly. Some of the podcasts that the boys
you have done and they've been ambushed and it's been
on the news and things like that, like nobody ever.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Does it at the moment keeps you. There is a
major one of the biggest media companies in Australia and
not one of the free to wear Neckwik's or the paytivot.
I'll leave that which who it is, because it has
been well documented that had been doing interviews with Australian
soldiers and have found to be editing or putting things

(56:01):
in which like they never said, well, they've gone back
and looked at it and said, hang on, I didn't
do that. And it's come out that they've cleverly edited it. Man,
And this is supposed to be an organization of the
highest integrity.

Speaker 3 (56:15):
Wow. One thing I did learn, you know, when I
first started, I used to think that, oh my god,
I've got this guest that is like a superstar. This
is it. This is the moment that it all explodes
for me, everyone finds out about who I am. That's
absolutely not the case. And it's more along the lines of,
you know, if you're thinking about getting into media or whatever,

(56:35):
look obviously every media you know, and Maddie you can
speak more to this than me. And obviously keep during
as well with mainstream media, like obviously every podcast or
radio show or TV show has a different purpose. So
like sometimes it is about shock jock, sometimes it's not. Well,
what I can say if you're you're in a podcasting
game for to be seen as like a serious you

(56:56):
know a bit of fun but a serious kind of
interview kind of podcast or whatever. I promise you no
crazy story that's negative will ever put you on the
map for any lasting amount of time. What will put
you on the map is consistence, consistently. They might not
get as many views as the story, but can just consistent,
consistent consistency. That's what puts you on the map, not

(57:16):
the crazy viral clip of a bloke saying something silly.
You know, people don't even we get so much content
these days. You can scroll through and you'll see that
crazy story. You actually won't even look at who told us,
like who actually hosted it. You'll just hear the story,
Oh that was crazy, and you just keep scrolling. It's
more consistency, in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
I heard an interview with the great Howard Stern the
other day. I would say, probably the greatest DJ of
all time. Jock, Yeah, shot, Jock is a sort of
broad brush incredibly talented and amazing how it'd Stern. They
interviewed him just about his young career and making it
when he first sort of started to hit and they said,

(57:53):
you know, how do you feel about that? And he goes,
I'm just so embarrassed, embarrassed. What are you embarrassed about?
He said, I used to get these amazing people on
and he said, I would Number one either try to
compete with them, or Number two put him on show.
And I'd never heard the interview, but he cites he said,
Robin Williams come in once at his very best firing
and he said, I said a few smart things. And

(58:16):
he said, then I tried to compete with him. And
I said, I just look back at now and he said,
I'm ashamed, dear.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
Well, yeah, you learned. Man. If you go back and
watch my first interview which was with bo Ryan Holy,
It's just it's terrible. Like it's terrible in a sense.
I didn't do anything bad. It's just a really poorly
executed interview. You learn, Yeah, you learn a whole bunch
from your early days, especially, as I said, all the
little naive things as well, like for example, like even
Anthony Mundine like that went viral, the interview with Anthony

(58:43):
Undean that was huge, but like it actually didn't have
that much effects numbers wise, like you know, I didn't
go and get another ten thousand subscribers from it or whatever.
It was more just about longevity, just consistency.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
Just before we wrap, I want to ask you you
do the sen Show on a Friday with Matthew. I
remember when you first, like when you guys first. I
don't know how it came about. Were you guys come
up with the show it together? But Trish Trish did
real Trisish, Well, I'm looking.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
Along and I said to trisham so looking out for someone?
Is anyone? Everything? Yeah, you've seen and the things really
talented to be really good. And oftentimes I get this.
It's not until someone says to me that I go
exact perfect and we're walking along. I remember walking along
Beach Road just up the radio and she said, what

(59:31):
about Dan and Camp? And I went, it's obvious.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
But I remember when you before you were doing it.
Might have been after the first episode you went on
your podcast and there was a clip on social media
of you just like it was all And I remember
thinking it was really weird because I've grown up in
the social media and I know I knew how big
you were on social media, and I was like, Dennan's
like really starstruck that he's doing this radio show with.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
Da still Is. When he came in the house, I said, mate,
please know bowing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
But how was that for you?

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Going from there and then into that mainstream media with
issue was that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
Super surreal because like, I'm a forty gamer and like,
as I said, like I don't I hadn't you know,
like I don't have any connections in the industry. I
don't really know anyone, Like I'm like the last I
put it this way. I remember, you know, when you
asked me to come on the show, I would have
been like, I don't know, maybe a year ago or whatever.
The time before I came into the Fox I've only

(01:00:29):
been into Fox Studios twice at that stage, so it
was obviously to come on your show. But the time
before I'd come down and they I'd send emails to
like so this is when the bar was really struggling,
Like we had no money, you know, we just needed
to find a way to get money in. So I
was like, look, I'll go and work like for someone
and just like we can hire someone else to to

(01:00:51):
like do the bar or whatever. And so I sent
emails to like every single media agency like Fox nine
seven to everyone basically like look, I've got this podcast,
but I'll also come work. And honestly, if they had
have offered me minimum wage, I would have said I'm there.
So I sent all these emails out saying, you know,
I'd love to work for you know, here's what I do.

(01:01:12):
I'd love to I didn't really get any answers back
except for Fox, and so they were like, oh, would
you like to come in on this date? And so
I didn't want them to know that it was like
a big deal for me to get down because I
lived on the Gold Coast. If I said I live
in the Gold Coast, they would have just like, I
don't worry about it, mate, It's all good. We'll just
maybe give you a call or whatever. So yeah, booked

(01:01:33):
flights on a book, flights on a credit card, got
down there, just you know, acted cool or whatever. I
went in for the interview thinking that they were like
really interested to like, here are my ideas and what
I'd achieved at this point in the podcast or whatever,
and I just I laid everything, all my ideas, that
laid them all out on the table and was like,
this is what I think, you know can work. So
this would have been like maybe five six years ago,

(01:01:55):
so this is like my ideas that you're seeing infruition now.
And anyway, so like I do this big spiel and
I'm all pumped up and like this is what's gonna happen,
and this is how it's gonna work, and this is
what I can do. And then he just like he goes, oh,
oh okay, yeah, look, we were just wondering if you
wanted to put the locker room on the cave for free,
and I was like, oh, okay, well yeah, like obviously

(01:02:16):
I can't do that and that and so then so
like that was the only indiview I'd had at Fox,
and then the next time was obviously coming in to
go on your show, and like that was that was
a big moment for me because I was just like, man,
I remember last time I came down here, I was
so desperate. I would have taken a minimum wage like
even a journalist's job, like just anything, and then obviously
I get to come on your show. And that's the thing,

(01:02:39):
Like that's why I was. I'm so star struck, is
because like or so appreciative of the offer, because from
my perspective, like internally, like I don't really I didn't
really know anyone in industry. Everything had just been built
from like literally nothing, and so I just couldn't believe that,
you know, I'd gone from editing in my bedroom learning
how to edit on YouTube all the way to that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Yeah, and you've been enormous help to us as well,
honest in the podcast world, lots of things. You know.
You have come over here just to help us out
purely and again today mate, we really appreciate it. Mate. Look,
there's one thing, mate, if you've got intalent, talent, intelligence
and perseverance, you can't be beaten.

Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
One hundred percent. One hundred percent. I totally agree. I
just need the maybe the intelligence and we'll be sweet.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
You beat me to the punch there, boys,

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#29 | Denan Kemp

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