#50 | Joel 'Sugar' Caine - Backstage with Cooper & Matty Johns

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So much comedy.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
Goal you go to your sponsored year on two Cooper, Joel,
You're goes. It's a never ending stream of freebies just
arriving at outdoor all the time. Soon as we hear knock,
don't we jack, We just don't.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
Bother it to Cooper. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:13):
Yeah, Well letting people know as well, who got half
of my freebies the other day because they didn't fit me?

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Who got them?

Speaker 3 (00:21):
It was me?

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Yeah, yeah, because they didn't fit you.

Speaker 4 (00:23):
And then don't be ungrateful that I'm getting freebies because
I'm always flicking you guys.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Always flicking.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, you go, you go through my stuff to ensure
that I haven't taken any of your stuff.

Speaker 4 (00:34):
My room's like the boxes that come to me. It's
like a Saint Vincent de Paul dumping box. I just
go and put it on on.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Dad's bed, and anything that's in my room sugar all
the time. He'll come in and steal it, sugar his room.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
He's he is a hoarder, really yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
He's the stuff that I've found in your eyes up advertising.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:55):
Now I've always struggled, like with culling, like I used to,
Like I'm pretty well documented I used to steal Maniac yeah, massive.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Clet I was taking him into Triple M. I used
to steal everything off people's head. He stole ten bucks
off Jamie Angel, the Boss once.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Off his desk. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:12):
Chris Page, who was Matthew's Panelotte, had a lot of
these things in his like horny.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Goat weed, remember that stuff?

Speaker 4 (01:19):
So yeah, yeah, And I was like twelve, and I
just took it, not knowing what it was. And I
was like, well, I didn't need any use for it,
and at that time, which had it now?

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Because I could put it to good use these days?

Speaker 5 (01:30):
What was pages review on the horny gateweed?

Speaker 1 (01:32):
I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:33):
You guys were like you guys had heaps of it
in a Triple M. I don't know whether they were
a sponsor or something.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
There's lots of things we play all sorts of tricks
in Shenanigans. Someone would be going to the airport, traveled
on to Brisbane and we had a massive, big dildover there,
big and we used to strap it to a diot.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
And camp stuff. Pretty MG's back. How are you enjoying
working with Fletch?

Speaker 5 (01:52):
Good mate? Well, you know what it's light and just
just a knock a bit. I think it kind of
works because he's he's the youngest of seven fletch. Yeah,
and I'm the eldest of six. He has he got
seven of that. Yeah's youngest, youngest of seven, Bryan Nathan Fletcher. Yeah,
grew up in an apartment too, a three bedroom apartment,

(02:13):
so with seven kids.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, everything in the Eastern Suburbs.

Speaker 5 (02:17):
In the Eastern Suburbs. His mother is still there today. Yeah,
the same same apartment.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Because flat choice explains like this, in the old days,
in the old days of Sydney, the coast was not
a coveted area because you know, they were concerns about
invasion and whatnot, particularly the Japanese, and so people would
generally want to live inland and it was only generally
the poor, the lower socio economic households that would live

(02:44):
on the coast, including the Eastern suburbs. How things change, Yeah,
sure sure, sure, no fears invasion have you around here?

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, this place is has followed on apart jold.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
Joel, you're the eldest of five.

Speaker 5 (03:02):
Elders is six, so mum and dad had five and
then mum, we've got a beautiful half brother Joey. So yeah,
so middle name John actually Joey John's.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, Joey John.

Speaker 4 (03:12):
Tell you what I've spun this before on the Family podcast.
There's a bloke down the road. There's a few of
these as well.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
I used to play.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
I played with the Matheson. John's short named Maddie John's.
His instagram is Madde John's played at Penrith and the Dragons. Actually,
but there's a real estate agent around here. His name's
Maddie John's. He actually works with Brad Parker because Parks
is now a commercial real estate agent with.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
The hardboard Hilton.

Speaker 4 (03:36):
Heah come up, yeah, because he rang me after I
plugged him on the Poddy saying mate, there's this bloke
on TikTok and he's like, hey, guys, what's up. Maddie
John's here, come to the open house and everybody always
praised him on it, going you're not for Maddie John's.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
But that bloke he used to be on the Tricia
podcast yesterday with a couple of two dotings.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Two doting dads, Maddie Jay and Schwitz.

Speaker 5 (03:58):
Was on the Bachelorie.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, someone told him changed his name because he would
say on the phone or sudden they go, oh, yeah,
Maddie Johnson and they go oh football.

Speaker 5 (04:08):
Yeah, he's a real estate agent and I hadn't heard
of this blake and apparently killing it in the States
leonce so higher. He's a real estate agent over the
States flying They tell me, wow, good guy Lance. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Remember the time in the in the Super Grand Final
where he got belted king hit and the guy who
hit him didn't just get suspended. I think he had
a jail jail say.

Speaker 4 (04:33):
That video was bad. Yeah, I remember it when viral forbid.
He was a big dude too. Yeah, it looked like
he had he jobbed him.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
And then when Lance ht the ground, he hit him
while he was down and he got yeah, got sent
off immediately and ended.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Up having to out of court. He got sentenced. Well,
I don't know what it was.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah, it was a big dude. Looked like he had
more than creatine and his sister.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
So so so six in the family. What's the breakup?

Speaker 5 (04:55):
So five boys and one girl, right, Yeah, it must
have been all the boys born in the city. My
sister was born in the country. Ye, it was pretty
You know what When I was a kid, boys, I
was very resentful to my parents, who were beautiful people
still got them Dave and Bernie separated. I was very
resentful for the upbringing. I'd be thinking, why did this

(05:19):
happen to me?

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Victim?

Speaker 5 (05:21):
You know, why did this happen to me? And then
when you get older and you learn things and you
think about all the good things that came out of it,
I've sort of changed my thinking to you know, why
did this happen for me? You know, why did this upbringing?
At the time, it was very chaotic, you know, very
very chaotic.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
So an example with traveling.

Speaker 5 (05:39):
Yeah, so I went to ten schools, ten.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Schools in the same area.

Speaker 5 (05:43):
In ten schools and never got to year twelve, right, So,
and it wasn't discipline. It was mum and dad together
from a young age, from sixteen pregnant have a young
boy sadly passes. His name's Nash. So I always said
to myself, if I have a boy, my first boy
is going to be Nash. And that's my third child.

(06:05):
We've got two girls, two boys. He's Nash. But then quickly,
you know, that scarred them, so they now that was
an accident, but now they need to sort of fill
that gap and they have me at the young age
of about eighteen or nine am. So they've got me,
and then fourteen months later they've got Rick and three
of us end up playing first grade. Rick the one
behind me, he was the best of the lot, you know, great,

(06:26):
great talented kid. Anyway, so by the time Mum and
Daut of twenty eight, they've got five kids.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
Jesus.

Speaker 5 (06:33):
But to rewind a little bit, Dad was a young
constable in the course, and one day they get this
card to go to this paddock and this knocked him
around a lot. So he gets his Cordgaut with this
paddock and these cops all descend upon this particular area
out in the west of Sydney and there's a bloke
and this is a different story. This bloke is there

(06:55):
and later gets charged with knocking off female redch grundies
off clotheslines. Right, so the yes, the cops turn up
and catch this bloke in the action, but that's not
what they're there for. One of the cops sets aside,
pinging him and they work out what he's been doing.
But the real reason they were there. The rest of
the cops march on down this paddic where this tip off,
it happened, and Dad and a few of the other

(07:17):
cops who are with him, they're first on scene for
the Anita copy murder. Oh Jesus, yeah, jesus, yeah. It
makes me every time I sort of hair stand up.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
But oh wow.

Speaker 5 (07:28):
For a long time Dad and never talk about it,
But the brutality from these pigs, these pigs, these travers
brothers and others, what they did to this girl. And
you can imagine what I did, knock a fam around.
So it's as a result of that, you know, Dad
wanted to get out of the city, and he got
an offer to go to Lake car Jelligo, where you're

(07:50):
almost the only cop in town, maybe you and another
one or two. It's really hard to police in the
in those rural areas because on the one hand, you've
got to sort of keep ordering town, but on the
other hand, everyone knows where you live, everyone sees you
down the pub. You sort of got to win some
people over. So my dad, he's sort of you're stuck
between a rock and a hard place. But he was
really good to the locals where you know, things like Condoblan.

(08:14):
If Condoblan cops turned up on the CB the only
reason they would turn up on the ceab is because
they're coming to Lake Jellyga. So Dadd had ring all
the pubs. He'd say, guys, with sort of a half
a wink over the phone, you know you're not spased
to drink and drive. You definitely ain't better not drive
to night. Right, I'm catching up with the condo cops.
And they'd all know people in town that, okay, the

(08:35):
condo cops are coming in town. That means the RBT
he's coming to town. So Dadd had let everyone know
in town things like that. Rightly or wrongly, you'd do it.
But there was one kid running a mark and he
even spoke to the parents and said, look, I think
for the better of him, we've got to take him.
I've looked after him. I've put a lot of the
stuff under the carpet. It was a school holiday. So
this guy's in the back of the paddy wagon and

(08:56):
he's going to court down at West Wylong. That was
the nearest court ear and half away. And I'm in
the passengers seat and so here I am, young kid,
this is the life on you. I'm just sitting in
the court and this magistrate character. So he's getting stuck
into this young kid. He said, mate, list after the list,
after the list, after item after item. You need some
time away. He said, I'm going to hit you with

(09:17):
six months in jail. And this kid's got the rats tail.
He's chewing gum gun Barrel looked at the magistrate. He said,
six months, six months. I'll do that stand and I'm
good ahead, and the magistrate country Blake Larry and he said, oh,
excuse me, court attendant, could I just have you for
a second. She comes back over. It's going to make
a little amendment, gets the pen. Sorry, sir, I forgot

(09:39):
one thing. He said, I'll give you. I'll give you
twelve months. He said, I'll give you six months to
stand on your head, and I'll give you six months
to get back on your feet. And this is the
type I think. This is the life we sort of
sort of grew up with. Then he went and bought
some pubs, and so we just moved and moved and
moved and moved. And I resented my family for that.
The amount of footy clubs you play with, the amount
of people say I used to go to with you,

(10:00):
and I'm like spinning the wheel, I wouldn't know you're
there for and it's quite traumatic as a kid meeting
new people all the time.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
What positions you play growing up? Rugby league?

Speaker 5 (10:09):
Probably five eight? Like a kid like speed and running
was my asset. But you know, you get away with
it in the country as a five eight, even though
it wasn't really much of a ball player.

Speaker 4 (10:18):
Were you like, I'd imagine the main thing you bond
over other kids with when you get to all these
different towns is rugby league.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Were you were good junior? Like you came in and
everyone was like all these blokes.

Speaker 5 (10:29):
Again, so that definitely helps and the whole family, Like
we would go to trophy day and like any given day,
my dad, who was a horrible athlete, right, he would
have Joel scored five, Rick scored six, Puld scored four,
Tyne scored six. So you know, some parents get to
see Johnny score a try and it's like dad was

(10:50):
getting twenty tries every week, you.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
Know, Yeah, Joel, can I just take the step back
there for a second about the impact the anitacopy murders
had had on him and for the boys. You know
a lot of younger viewers will not be aware of.
This could be i'd say, possibly the most infamous murder.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
Australian history.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yet where was it located?

Speaker 3 (11:16):
Black Tea.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, we're not going to go into details, but it's
absolutely horrific. And I remember getting the book somebody else's daughter.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
And read it.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
I got about twenty pages in I just threw it away.
It was just too disturbing. But what effect did you
see on your father?

Speaker 5 (11:34):
Yeah? You know what I saw, which I probably lived
through myself post career, right, was a lot of alcohol
in our family, and a lot of financial pressure in
our family, and a lot of kids. And so Mum
and Dad really were just ducks in a pond and
they're just surviving. And the amount of times and as
I said, I love them to death, and they were
dealing with what they could do at the time. But

(11:55):
with a lot of alcohol, a lot of stress, there's
a lot of fights. Right, So we lived in at
Mum and Dad were just fighting all the time, you know.
And the funny thing is not funny thing, but of
all of my siblings who have gone on to get married,
we've all married into families who parents have been together
the whole time and stable families they've lived in the
same area the whole time.

Speaker 3 (12:17):
We've all sort of got gravitated that.

Speaker 5 (12:18):
Yeah, my wife you probably know Wayne Smith, third most
cap Magpie. I married his eldest daughter and their family
is very much I see something about Wayne. Actually remember
back in the day, Maddie, you'd finished the game and
the wives or the girlfriends they wait outside, and I
was sort of anound for I'd have long showers. I'd
just be in there all day, you know, and k
shit's why I'm always the last one late, and I

(12:40):
just love to just chill in the shower. I have
a beer and chat the boys. And anyway, I got
invited this Legend's day, and I don't know how the
freaking how I got invited, but Wayne certainly was invited.
He was a legend of the West Magpies, so he
should be there. They'll probably added up the numbers and
we're taken on Satler and all the bunnies, and I've
got to start. It's a muck around game out there
at Redfernoval. And so after the game, having my routine,

(13:02):
first in the shower, probably going to be the last out,
and the father in law you have a shower with
your father in law boys, or your girlfriend's dad.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Unfortunately Tony's passed. No, I know Tony Truci's dad wasn't
sort of the guy that she imagined.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
If Tony fancy having a shower up for it.

Speaker 5 (13:22):
So Wayne's six foot six foot two or something fit
as a fear of even to this day runs a
sea anels good bloke and he comes in with the
towel over his shoulder and then the penny drops. I've
just worked out, right at this moment why his mates
call him knackers? Right, that was his nickname, which his
wife Lyne hates that they call him that. But that

(13:42):
was the very first time I worked out, Oh, Wayne,
that's why they call your knackers. And then quickly I'd
left the building. I was very quickly out that day
to show with your father in law, well under your
Wayne too, by the way, unusual experience.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
Did he give you us? Did he like have a
look at you up and down?

Speaker 5 (13:58):
He did? He did? He did? Yeah, having try, I
would have thought he won the battle. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
So back on your father in law for one second.

Speaker 4 (14:05):
Yeah, because now letting people know if you're you know,
those people are listening that aren't rugby league players. When
you are a rugby league player, you're an ex rogay
league player, and you you might have a daughter or
a son. Probably the your first instinct is, probably I
don't want my daughter to und up with another rugby
league player, because you know it could be scally action

(14:26):
time that I'm out with the boys all the time.
Probably not renowned family men. When you first met your missus, was.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Was he very like hard with you?

Speaker 5 (14:36):
Like?

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Was he very skeptical on your Yeah?

Speaker 5 (14:38):
I imagine it was. But when we first met, actually
Kobe's telling her dad we met at this touch football
tournament and Kby is telling her that I bet this
guy and what's his name blah blah blah, and he's
an electrician. I told her I was an electrician, which
which I am qualified as an electrician. And then he said, Kabe,
he's not electrician. He's playing footy, you know, And then say, yeah,

(15:00):
I mean as I would be the same thing keeps,
you know, I'd be very skeptical.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
So the towns you went to and the schools, what
was was what was the most difficult town to live in?
And where would you Is there any town that you
go gravitate and go back there.

Speaker 5 (15:16):
Yeah. We finished high school in Port McQuary. That was good,
you know, like Bonnie Hills, northapn Port McQuary. But we
lived in this little town of eighty people and there
was I think there was like eleven at the school
and five of them were us. You know, like we
had a little pub in that town, New Bridge, Frosty
town outside of Blaney. That was tough going.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, right, okay, So you started the Dragons, yep, you're
picked up by the Dragons.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
That was when you were living in Port McQuary. How'd
they find you?

Speaker 5 (15:45):
Yes, I was in Port McQuary, and I just what
about you, coops? Were you are desperate league? Or did
you have to do it or you will give or
take league? Did you want to do it?

Speaker 1 (15:54):
Or I wanted to play league.

Speaker 4 (15:56):
I went to a Union school yep, so I was
forced to play union there as well. But I always
league was always my sport. It was always I'd play
Union on the Saturday, League on the Sunday, or sometimes
on the same day, rock up with my union stocks
socks still on. Dad was coaching our league side. But
I think league was always the passion. Union's just it

(16:16):
was a bit different for a league.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
The second year you didn't play union, remember you had
an injury, but also the very fact that I found
it unhealthy to a certain extent. So I'm not a
big fan of the sports high schools.

Speaker 5 (16:28):
Yes, but I agree with that.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, you know, but you don't want a kid you
don't keep going through school saying, oh, it doesn't matter
about schol I'm going to be a first grade footballer anyway.
And when you're fourteen years of ages, very you think
that way. Yeah, we chose against that as well.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
Yeah, well definitely like not throwing, not lifting the lid
on anything. You know, that's too controversially, but those big
union schools, they probably are. They probably do promise a
lot of kids the world, Like at fourteen fifteen, they
get him in on scholarship, come in here, played. And
then as soon as I saw that, many blog, so
many kids that will promise like you're going to be

(17:02):
the next big thing. Two years later they they kind
of like, you know, and they and they don't. They
let him get away with not doing exams, someone else
still in their homework.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
All of this stuff.

Speaker 4 (17:13):
And then they get to seventeen and they they've already
hit their gross burd everyone goes past them and there's
a little bit of all right, well you know you're
no longer.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
That good, so we'll just piss you off a little bit.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
Well, I remember there was one kid at the school
who made he could really play.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
This kid he was a forward.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
So I bumped the Melbourne Storm and I said, I
found this this this kid, right, So the Storm made
him an offer and then someone got in his ear
inswer me, you don't want to go to don't go
to that code and anyway, so they promised him somehow
as far as super rugby and surprise, surprise never eventuated.

Speaker 5 (17:45):
What about so you asked me about how to go
from Port mcquarie to the dragons, right? And it impacts
your life? Actually? So I get invited to this trial
and we were a very weak group, but I was
probably the captain of our group Group three. We'd played
group before and get flogged. We're a very weak rep group.
But anyway, myself, I get invited this trial open trial cogra,

(18:06):
and I'm so pumped it. This is my chance to
make it. And it's an open trial. So missmashy socks
jerseys whatever else, and I get down there, and I
run into a mate from Tari the Tari Red Rovers.
Here you are, mate, blahlah blah blah. We play and
I'm thinking I'm in good shape. If he's got to start,
I'm going to be flying in. Get out there, bad
start overthinker had a shaka and my head's off. Meanwhile,

(18:29):
the boy from Tari Red Rovers is carving up, absolutely
carving up, and my head's imploding. Right, So I'm kicking stones.
I'm walking out of Cogra and phone rings Sally. Peter O'Sullivan,
my great Sally. He rings me, says, oh, how are
your mate? I said, oh, Pete, it was my best day.

(18:49):
He said, fancy being a dragon.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
Wow, relief.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
Peter and Sullivan was still recruiting. Back then.

Speaker 5 (18:57):
It was coaching SG ball, was it, Yeah, this is
nineteen ninety five, this would have been.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
He's been around old.

Speaker 5 (19:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (19:05):
He came through our Grand final was against Frank Peronician Manly.
They were coaching against each other.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
Was he Frank?

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Frank was Bozo had him employed as a junior coach.
He took him up as an assistant. Wow, Manly, Yeah,
he's done everything Frank in the game Frankfurt, hence his expertise.

Speaker 5 (19:21):
Yeah, so I get the phone call. I'm sorry, relieve,
he said, mate, not only that, you're gonna live with me.
So I'm going not beautiful. Three months later. Three months
later and he's driving an old pantech truck. Then and
we're driving home from training one day. He's living at
Rudy Hill. That's where Pete was living and Rob living.
So we're driving at home and dinner tonight is his
ex wife Therese, which is Sean O'Sullivan's mum. She'd make

(19:44):
this beautiful what do they call beef stroging off. So
we're having that for dinner and Pete goes to me,
started to get a bit serious and always sort of joke.
He said, made to you. I'm homesick. I said, I'm
loving it. He goes, you're missing your girlfriend. I said,
I miss my girlfriend, but I'm good. He goes, mate,
we're we're gonna prop sit down the night he said,

(20:05):
between you and said, the club's this close to get readier.
I've been played a game. It's been the off seas.
When I first got down there, they rolled the red
carpet out. But it starts to diminish and now I
can't think about this. I'm eating the strogging off and
it's a favorite meal, but I can't enjoy it, you know.
And we sit down and Therese brings out a cornetto
for a seat. We're sitting on the carpet and we're
watching the TV. He puts on. He said, you're not homesick.

(20:25):
I said, I'm not homesick. He goes, all right, well,
let's watch this. So he watches. He puts his tape on.
You what do you think about that run? I said, oh,
it's a great run. You know what about the pass?
Bang ran, tackles, went through all these metrics, bang bang
bang bang bang. So you promise me you're not amsick?
I said, not am sick. He goes, and everything's okay.
I said, everything's okay. He goes, well, how do I

(20:47):
get you back to doing that?

Speaker 3 (20:49):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (20:50):
I said, how do I get back to doing that?
He goes, yeah, how do we get your back to
doing that? That's the boy we signed. I said, Pete,
that's impossible. He said why. I said, that's not me.
He goes, he goes, what do you mean that's not you?
I said, I said, that's not me, Like two little
blokes of brand. I said, that's my mate from the

(21:11):
Tari Red Ravers. He goes, that's who we wanted to sign.
He goes on, He goes, well, where the hell's he going?
I said, oh, I made He got a last minute
trial with the Knights. Danny grew up as a Dragons
fan and was he wanted to be a Dragon, right,

(21:33):
He'd have posters on his walls and he couldn't have
done more. He was the best player there. So Pete
says to me, he goes, what are you going to
do with you? I said, well, for starters, they don't
want to playing looker too much. And he moved me
out of that. But as a result of that, because
if he goes there and you know what, Danny Badiera's
one of them. I don't need to tell you this,
but what happens if he gets stuck behind Nathan Brown

(21:54):
all those years? That's right, he goes to you guys,
has the benefit of playing with the Johns brothers. So
sliding door for him, sliding door for me.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
It was tough three years for Bedsy after that that
Bedsy come to Newcastle and you talk about being an
able thinking yourself. Oh, my god, Bedsy was I remember
we used to get there and do sessions with the
juniors when we're playing first grade.

Speaker 3 (22:11):
Andrew and I.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
I remember Bedsy. He was just tied in ah, mate,
he was all over the place. Played in the halves,
he really struggled. They put him in the centers, he
really struggled.

Speaker 3 (22:20):
They put him to full back, he struggled, and he
was just he was. He had a foot out the door.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
And then one day there was just a spade of
injuries and they elevated me first grade and give him
a crack at a hooker. And remember walking off at
half time like he hit everything that moved.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
I remember hitting. He hit Richie Barnett.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
Barnett was a hard guy to hit because he'd lifted
his knee, and mate, Barnett wound up and he was
running at me, and I sooner think to myself, fucking
l this is gonna hurt. And then all of a sudden,
bang beds ed him inside off. Remember walking off at
half time, just going to Bedsy, are you all right?
Like for him after the game, he.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
Just said, I found hooker easy. I didn't have to think.
I just got out there and played.

Speaker 5 (22:59):
But he's a great for kids who missrep teams. I
tell this all the time, so I'll never forget. Barry
Sprague was the coach of our under sixteen as I said,
very ordinary group side, and he was from the gun side.
So there'd be five players who the league would regard
better than him at the Tarry Red Ravers. None of
them went on and Barry Spragg's picking number seventeen and

(23:20):
I'm the captain of his side at Port and so
I'm the captain of the squad and he said, oh man,
I'm thinking about picking this young Banius as a seventeen
and I reckon he can play, you know, I said, yeah,
I rid him too, you know, put it. But it
was just even at sixting, you're that close to think
that he was going to what a career.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
Yeah, amazing career, Edgie.

Speaker 4 (23:39):
Sorry, you've just spacked my memory on a story of
clubs that signed the wrong players accidentally. So there's a
couple actually, but my favorite. So I was playing mainly
in the under eight ns and mainly we're talking to
this kid who was playing up in Cans this center
and they go, you know, send through some tape. We'll
have a look at it and if we think you
got anything, we'll come down play the SG bull sweet.

(24:01):
He sends through this massive tape he's cut together everything himself.
Him and his manager sends it down. Mainly are looking
at it, typical manly, very cutthroat. They look at it
and they go, what's that that fella on who plays
outside you?

Speaker 1 (24:13):
What's his name? They end up signing the winger on
the outside of him.

Speaker 4 (24:16):
He comes down tremendous player, like an unbelievable the work
rate of like no one though like could refuse to
do any work two games in does his ACL anyway,
he they end up the club's looking after and the
end up putting him with another one of those players
who lives in Western Sydney and he's on crutches and
he's done his ACL and he was a bit of

(24:39):
a rat bag and he ended up sleeping with the
bloke's sister and yeah, yeah, and the blokes sister, the guys,
the older brothers who were living in the house were
let's say they were quite heavy fellas, like they were
fellas you didn't want to cross anyway. Our coach rings
me one night and he says, oh mate, because you

(25:00):
got a spot at your house. I know why, he says,
I've just had to pick up to leave his name
out of it. What he's done, he goes, I just
had to pick him up. He was running, he was
on crutches and his brace, his a C L brace,
running down the m one and the brothers were chasing
him with with a machete. And then he was trying
to bring into our house. I said, keep that fuck

(25:22):
up as far away from it as possible.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
I don't want those brothers.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
But signing the wrong blokes.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
The biggest, the biggest soccer club in the world at
the time, AC Milan once signed the wrong player. They
looked at an English game and the great John Barnes
for Liverpool.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
Of course will just won the title, all.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Done, and they're looking and John Barnes was close to
the best player in the world at the time, and
they went and made this and they're watching this play.
They way, yeah, he's the one way they get him.
Go a Milan and this player is really struggling and
turns up, well, they his name was Luther from set something.
I was trying to think of his name, but it's well,
it's famous. So they went mate, that's the guy, and

(26:01):
they went and signed him, and later on they went no, no, no,
the player we're looking at it, but it was John
Barnes and so they completely It's famous that they signed
the wrong player. You saped quite a bit of yes
days for over analysis.

Speaker 5 (26:13):
And like that.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah, well, all these to go on was just especially
in league, it was just video and basically.

Speaker 5 (26:19):
Greek Smith, Yeah that's right, mate.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
Greg Smith from Philadelphia Egles to the Newcastle Knights played
a first grade game, got deported two weeks later.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
He played in the NFL. Or he said he did,
He said, well he was.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
He was a squad player with the Philadelphia Philadelphia Eagles
wide receiver. He decided to go cut and come and
lived in Australia, decided to play a bit of football.
Someone tipped off Warren Ryan and one thing lose to
another and up with the Yank and the team.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
I put him in the squad. So he's at the club.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Played a reserve grade game and I played okay, and
then we had a mile of injuries and w said,
I'm going to put them, going to put the Yank
in the first grade. So we're playing the Bulldogs, the
Dogs of war and Ricky Stewart, Bradley Clyde at a
cracking side. Anyway, the Yank was going okay. In the
first time he was going okay. And then Ricky just
for after time put a bomb up. He went to
catch it, hit him in the head and they went

(27:12):
right out of bloods in the water and they just
kept going.

Speaker 3 (27:16):
He played so bad.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
Like I remember, after the game, there was just a
media throng going to Warren Ryan going at the club
going how can you put this bloke in?

Speaker 3 (27:24):
And he come up to me Smithy and said, Maddie,
how do you think I went? And I think, oh
my god, you don't know. I said, you're okay? Yeah, man,
there was guys were saying you know that I was ship.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
I don't listen to see the Dragons. You're all most
famous for playing for the Tigers. So you go to
the Tigers. We'll talk about the crazy gang and see
Bawmain Tigers to start with.

Speaker 5 (27:51):
Yep, I was at the Dragons and they merged. Then
I was at Baomain and then they merged. I'm not
going to run away from this. I ran away from
the Dragons. They went to a Green final, so I'm
going to stay here, and thankfully I got the last,
very last spot at the West Tigers because they're trying
to get Prett Hodgson. He decided to stay at paramattap
and what happened that year, and I'm so grateful for

(28:13):
this year. But this is the year the Broncos won
the comp two thousand and I said, Junie, you're gonna
play every game. He said, mate, we've signed Maddie Sears,
who might play Wayne Pierce the coach. Yeah. And I
trained as hard as I've ever trained, didn't drink. I
didn't really drink. Then I'm off the drink again now
as a result, thinking about getting back to your best.
But we played the Broncos in the first round and

(28:35):
they won the I got comeing out men and the
Matt's three tries most points in.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
The compe three tries.

Speaker 5 (28:40):
Fox gave me the player of the round. So I
was just on fire. But what hurt me is and
I'm so proud of what the dally ms and They've
got the list of the points scorers and it's a
blanket finished myself, your brother, Andrew, Matt Rodgers, Daryl Halligan,
Ryan Girdler and to be in that race of five
and ultimately win it. It's up and I'll never forget.

(29:01):
But where it come undone, Coops, And you can imagine
this when you were coming through young that was the
Olympic year, so the competition we missed the finals. So
my season finishes in August and the Olympics is in
Sydney and your host city. And so I've come back
the next season five K. So all those tries and
points I score, and you know, like I'm getting ragged

(29:22):
old and I'm getting caught and I never ever got.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Back to a trdjole.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
Yeah, it's hard. When you have a really big season, you.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
Throw everything into that year.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
Yeah, the next year is very very hard to back up. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Particularly I always found in my career in the off
season when I was going to the next season, I'm thinking,
I've got this game by the balls. Finally I'd have
a shocking season. It was when you were turn up
a training every session, nervous.

Speaker 5 (29:46):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
That's when you know, ahead of for a big season yep.

Speaker 5 (29:49):
Yeah. And I just that's why I've got so much
reverence for these Panthers and the success they have, and
they just keep wanted to get better. Whereas I kind
of felt that from the age of five, I wanted
to be a first grade player and I've won a
dally M point scoring thing and I kind of felt
like I can've done it. There they've got there. Yeah, yeah,
like I've done what I've needed to do, and yeah,

(30:11):
that was kind of That's why it's.

Speaker 4 (30:13):
So important, like you have you have your short term goals,
but there's got to be if you're a young player,
you've got to have a long term because, like you're saying,
the amount of players that go, I just want to
All I want to do is get to first game
and play one game, and then they get there and
they've worked so hard to get there and they kind
of go, like, what actually do I want to do now?
Like is my goal to win a Grand Final? Is

(30:34):
my goal to play State of Origin? Like so many
players actually don't know what they want.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
Then they just go.

Speaker 4 (30:38):
They just play because they love it, but they actually
don't have an end goal. You see Penrith like they
want to win the comp every year yep, and you
can tell how I mean, this year they're struggling, but
the last four years, like they get back to preseason
and they Ultimately they just want to win. They want
to They would win the comp every year if they
wanted to.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
And the difference Coop when you mentioned there about young
guys coming in the grade and they go, okay, I'm here,
is that the dream is very different to the reality.
Is that you grow up playing the game, but you're
playing with all your mates in the park and there
aren't no consequences. You might win, you might lose, you
might play good, you may't play bad. I can't remember
I play good or bad or whatever. No one would
critique you.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
And your whole goal is to play in.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
The Sydney Competition or the Winfield Cup. And now's the
NRL and a lot of young guys will get there.
Suddenly they get in there and they go there's criticism,
there's pressure, and it's just not fun.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Like I think if you went to a lot of
young guys and you went to the masks them honestly
in the NRL, are you enjoying your career? I reckon
at the very least half would say no.

Speaker 5 (31:43):
Yeah. And you know the thing right, So Ryan Hoffman,
so Jay Hoffman. Ryan was a Campbellton kids. He came
through with St. Greeks. Yeah, Fulton. He won a comp
with Fulton and I think it was Bronson Harrison and
a number of other those young sort of Rice Gibbs
West kids, yep. And Jay Hoffman his dad who was

(32:03):
a raider. He came to training and he must have
played with Bellamy, actually yeah he did, probably playing Bellamy.
He came to training and I was an iva of
country kid, right, And they say you become the sum
of the five people you hang around most if you
went through the first West Tigers team and ultimately it's
up to myself making bad decisions. But if you have
a look at some of the scoundrels on there and
that it was good times, mind you. But Jay Hoffman goes,

(32:25):
this is not for my son, dragged him out and
took him straight down to Melbourne m craig and his
career goes where his career goes, you know.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
So well let's run through that, right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
The West Tigers coups of ninety nine or two of
two thousand and going forward for a couple of seasons there.
When you talk about that, they the Crazy Gang referred
to an English soccer side who were Wimbledon f C.
Who had Vinnie Jones, Dennis Wise that they were they
were nuts. Well I'm telling you now, I reckon This
West Tiger's site has got them covered, and I'm not joking.

(32:58):
So you got Hopper, John Whardy, Maddie Sears Fields at
Craig Field, the late the late Great Terry Hill, Darren Center,
Jared McCracken, Luke, O'Donnell and the Beginner's Brothers. List goes
on and list goes on and on and on. A
couple of those boys have had for They had a
very difficult times.

Speaker 3 (33:16):
It was time in jail.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
But even I remember playing you blokes. It was just like, mate,
we played you blokes one day Campbelltown and I could
hear you blokes roaring in the dressing room next door,
and it was just made like there was some seriously
scary blokes.

Speaker 4 (33:34):
Hopper, Hopper wasn't was not scary, But how good was
he coming out of court the other day? By the way,
where you met, I've been at your mum's house bringing
to your mum.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
What was like for you to walk into the training
session with all those blokes. Because blokes like Jared McCracken,
I reckon, he's probably the most intimidating of the lot.

Speaker 5 (33:51):
But you know what, Jared McCracken, mate, he took me
on a run and and he was good because he'd
pushed me. And where are some of the other older ones.
I'd be winning everything at training slow down, whereas the
good clubs that are trying to be not going the
other way. But Crackers was good, you know, like he
was just so tough, just one of those guys. You

(34:12):
look around to the sheds. We've got Crackers. We're fine,
We're actually flying. Guskuld said, this is the team to beat.
We're running. Second Crackers got hurt, hurt his neck, yep,
and then we kind of went into free fall. Lost
that game in the snow, had that big lead against
Penrith and Nulla vo and Pull. The tour went berserk
and that was back to back when we went back
down the back door.

Speaker 6 (34:30):
Just remind me first Crackers. Cracker, who's so where did
he play Captain New Zealand, New Zealand Captain New Zealand.
He went to the Bulldogs from McQuary. Yeah, yes, his
dad was in New Zealand National yep. But he went
to Paramounta.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
He come to prominence of the Bulldogs then went to
Paramatta and off to the West Tigers.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
Don't worry a lot of those boys. Some of those
boys got the West.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Tigers as far as financially, yeah money, So this is
two thousand how striking crackers would have been.

Speaker 5 (35:00):
Oh like compared you know what, compared to today they're
on like two million dollars comparatively, I reckon or where
property prices were and what? Yeah, mate him and Terry
Hill and Terry Hill. Because I used to love Blacklock
and if I was every on the winger, not fullback,
I'd be coming in. He gave Fane Fanane beat a drum. Fernande.
He said, I'm not getting paid six hundred thousand dollars

(35:21):
to be the winger for the club, so he wanted
me to not do the Blacklock. If I came in,
it meant he's on the wing, say Fernanda, He'd say,
But just Terry Hill, I mean the late Terry Hill
and colorful, yes, but a great character. The first year
at the West Tigers really ripped in him and Tony
Green were tired as he had a great season. Second
year again the Olympic year, and everyone's had a long
time off Tony Green, the trainer he wear the speed

(35:45):
dealer Sonny's when he come out of a yeah, very
sleep great fellow. Though he were to come by some
of the blokes he was coaching, I wouldn't use. So
he got us to buy these three thousand dollar bikes,
and Terry Hill on all this money, refused to do it.
We're waiting at Centennial Park. One person's got to turn up.
It's Terry Hill and he comes around the corner of

(36:07):
this bright pink little bike with the tassels on the
side in the basket. We've all got these ubute, bloody bikes.
And he goes, Terry, you're taking the piece. What are
you doing? He goes, Toney, when have you ever seen
somebody run the length on the fucking motobike? And it
wasn't even a motorbike. You started just a carriage.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
I'd heard stories that someone told me. I think some
of those boys are on about eight fifty. Oh yeah,
then yeah, back then about eight fifty. So there's twenty five,
twenty six years ago. But on top of what I
heard about Crackers, the Crackers had the big contract. But
he also said to the West Tigers in the contract
and I need to have a car dot dot dot
on my choice yes and right, and they went, oh yeah,

(36:44):
no problem, not really not understanding the fine print and
how ruthless crackers could be. Well, crackers goes you, I
want a hummer and he turned up with a hummer.
That's exactly what happened.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
So what was they two hundred and fifty two hundred
ground then?

Speaker 5 (36:57):
Yeah, absolutely, and that's under the salary cap. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
Well, at the time there was when a will superly
come together for a while, there there was no salary cap.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
It was just do your best.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
I believe because I think the year in ninety nine, Joel,
I don't believe there was a salary cap, and I
think the total expenditure there.

Speaker 5 (37:17):
Wasn't because that Bronco Sidere's no way they fitted. They
were all Australians.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
So ninety nine when the Storm beat Saint George 'll
Warre and the Grand Finals Saint George Lawara, I believe
total expenditure on players that year was almost fourteen million.

Speaker 5 (37:32):
Yep. Oh wow, yep.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
Well you don't hear that, like that's not really talked
about much. That there was a few years where there
was no salary.

Speaker 5 (37:38):
We all go through that two thousand Broncos side.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
Oh yeah, but all the money that they were given
as the grant to get together, because this is one
of the incentives. They went to Saint George and they
went to Laura As they went to Balmain and West
and offered a large amount of money to merger incentives.
I believe that Saint George Lawara's money. They almost spent
it two years just on.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
Players because it was this crazy rush to get footballers.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
What sot Who was the big dog out of all
those all those colorful characters.

Speaker 5 (38:07):
I think Crackers was a big dog. You know what.
Terry didn't fear anyone. Terry used to actually I wouldn't
say bully, but he was always after Luke o'donald. They
called him brains. He wasn't the smartest kid, but book smart.
But so one day in front of everyone, Luke o'donnald said,
come on, I'll have wrestled with you. And Terry had
this big strength about him, no one could beat him
in the wrestle. An eighteen year old Luke o'donald took

(38:29):
him on and ragged old him, and from that day
Terry sucked up to Luke o'donald, but Terry ran the show.
But he always had that fear, I fear, but but
that reverence for McCracken.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
What were some of the things some of the things
you saw, because I've heard some I've heard some stories
about Shannannians at halftime. I heard some sans about what
would happen immediately at full time sometimes win, lose, or
draw before the coach would easily debrief yep, that there'd
be some shenanigans going on.

Speaker 5 (39:03):
Yeah. Look, I I was like a twenty twenty one
year old, so I was quite naive to what was
going on. And I know there was in hindsight lot
going on. But there was things like like We're playing
at Paramatta one day and one of the boys said, oh,
watch this. They've tipped out the one of the water
bottles out of the tray and they filled it up
with beer. And I've got to kick at the end
of the game, and then I would always put the

(39:25):
water on the face first, and that comes his beer.
It actually relaxed me, like get the kick right. Other
like Terry Hill if he had a bad game. So
Terry Lamb wasn't a big fellow, and he couldn't reach
the when he put the video caressett in. So if
Terry had a bad game, he'd actually reverse the taper
ind and so when bargat to do it, it wouldn't work,
you know, and Hopper see bit Hopper. In fact, Terry

(39:47):
Hill used to call one of Terry Lamb's assistance, I
won't name hi because hes embarrassing. Right, a minibath, right,
a mini bath And I'd say, what do you call him? Minibus?
He goes, oh, because he's half a fucking cage. He
had all these one liners Hopper who they couldn't control.
Hopper Hopper, you know, like he'd play every game, he'd
do twenty carries two hundred meters, but was the worst training.

(40:09):
He was just a natural athlete. So they kind of
worked out, if you going to give us a twenty carries,
who cares? You know, he'd do the beep test with
a like a bat and he'd just touching each side.
But they let him go, right, Hoper get away with
but you know the Hopper what he's the Hopper? How
that started? We'd been flogged one game and Terry Lamb

(40:29):
had ascertained that our play the balls were real slow.
So he said, right, we're going overload on Quick Play
the Ball speed this week. So we had to wrestle
each other. Him and I were on the wings this week,
so it's him verse I best of five. Whoever lost
had to do this fitness challenge, which again Hopper hates. Right.
So I'm two two and oero, I've got it at
one more and I've won this challenge the time and

(40:50):
the speed of the play the Ball, So I'm going
to beat him for a third time. I go to
get up and so I'm in this crouched position and
then next thing you.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
Know, oh, hoppers put the right put the finger up,
the finger.

Speaker 5 (41:04):
Up the right. So I was the first to get
got He got me like this, and so he's gone
on to win three too, because I wasn't going to
push a friendship after that and I was happy to
do fitnes anyway. Yeah, so then the games, he's doing it.
Every week he's getting someone. You'd see someone from Quick
Play the Ball and you'd see them get this right.

Speaker 4 (41:19):
So yeah, yeah, so obviously that the Hopper scandal when
Hopper put his finger up someone's of ars. Yes, so
he was doing that. Yeah, did you see him like
even games prior to that, allegedly, I.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
Guess he doesn't away from it. Now he's got the
T shirt.

Speaker 5 (41:35):
Yeah, he's got the T shirts. He's got much but
but but how he got done was he had the ball.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
So that's right.

Speaker 5 (41:42):
So he had the ball and bowman's on top of him,
and he's got trigger happy and and up there because.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
He got comfortable. So do you get away with it?

Speaker 2 (41:49):
Okay, let's not use the name of the player. Let's
call him Johnny Gambler.

Speaker 5 (41:55):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
He was well known around the place, but a few clubs,
and it's legendary the amount of money that he would
gamble with.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
What did you see that player?

Speaker 5 (42:05):
So Johnny I was running the Punners Club. So you know,
you got to Kenkoon at the end of the year,
and this guy was earning mega dollars. He was six
hundred thousand, six maybe more he.

Speaker 3 (42:13):
Was on in nineteen ninety seven. I think he was
on seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

Speaker 5 (42:19):
He was a player, yep, yeah, yeah, great player, A
very talented player from a tough upbringing. And I kind
of you see this for some players where they're used
to scrapping and no matter how much you're going to get,
there going to self sabotage, right, So he would play
the poke's like a piano. He just the money would
come in and would go out. So the point where
at the end of the month we get paid monthly,
he said, oh, Jollie, can I borrow five grand? And

(42:41):
I'm a young bloke. He's a senior player, so of
course I'm going to say yeah. And I knew he's
getting paid big money. We get paid next week. I'll
pay your back. So I find out second hand. I
find of the other players he's backed us. And by
the way, it wasn't an illegal back in those days.
I don't know to back yourself, right. Fine, so we're
playing the Broncos up there at the old am z Stadium.
He's backed us with eight and a half start, and

(43:02):
I think we've got a few key players coming back.
So I actually remember thinking, geez, that's a big start.
Gup danzid Stadium, and it is a big start. A
t you steer and gun barrel at Thorn Webke Siven receiver,
Carol Tallis, Bluckie Takiri sailor bike and Walters Carl Webb.

(43:24):
You know, it just goes. It just doesn't stop right.
So they couldn't have been under the cap. They wouldn't
have been a cap. So we turn up, you know,
Flask gills around the grounds. Donny Moseley six all here,
Ray try to Lee Murphy converted by a gain, and
I try to Sean Berrigan six. All right, So the
game's in the balance. Johnny Gambler's chirp. He's up on
his feet and he's bouncing around. Eighteen and a half
start right out the hour mark, Flask Gills around the round.

(43:47):
Donny Moseley, nice try, barreling over car Web, scores a
try kick converted by Mick de Vie. He's two from two,
twelve points to six. The Fronco is leading the Tigers right,
ten minutes to go. Flask girls around the grounds. Donny Moseley,
thanks Ray, the Broncos going for try number three. Sliding
to the corner. Iken picks up the Broncos third, eighteen
points to six. He's converted that three from three for

(44:08):
devere Flas scords around the ground. JOHNI the Moseley, Well
they're looking good now, Ray, Divi's just put it beyond doubt.
He's just kicked his fourth a penalty goal and the
score is twenty points to six. The Broncos look home
against the West Tigers. All right, thirty seconds to go.
We're attacking. So Gambler's name, last play, So play four
twenty meters out there, play the ball. This is the

(44:29):
game that got away from the West Tigers. Ball comes
back away. Cherarco Mesher will be known futurely for pressure
in rhyming slang. Looks to the left hand side, carting
the ball forward, goes Jason Lowry five meters out. Now
the Tigers looking to get something out of the scraps.
They could have won this game. It was the one
that got away. Screaming profusely for the ball. On the
left hand side is Johnny Gambler. Mesher dummies of the
left hand side goes as I let here's a chance.

(44:50):
Murphy's open Mike get number two long cut out ball
intercept Sailor. God No, Sailor's over the forty. He's over
the fifty. When Sailor charging down the western touch line,
he's going to get there with these only one chaser
from the West Tigers. Look at the chase of Johnny
Gambler sailor waves the gamblers in the corner right flash

(45:16):
scores around the ground. Johnny Masley, what a great try
to Wendel Saylor right on the bell e scores in
the corner twenty four points to six. Kick the comfort
de Vere. So people start to leave early to get
their parking, and Diver's on the touch line the ultimate
professional four from four for the day. Mick Devere moves
in from the western touch line twenty meters out right,
boot strikes it, heading towards the post. Do you blokes

(45:36):
play golf it all? Yeah? Yeah, you know when there's
a lake in front of you and your first instinct
was I'll pulled the six sign out, You get the
six sign and you put it back in. You go,
now can get there with the seven. You hit the
seven one over the lake and you know straight away
you should have kept the six sign. Yes, the only
way you can get that ball over the lake now
is the magic loan. So you're going, oh, de Vere
hasn't got on it as much as he would have

(45:57):
liked to, so he's going, Oh, any gambler's behind the post,
going oh the other way, heading towards the posts. Hits
the posts and no goal. Ah. You know, have you
ever come in from the pub, right and you haven't
seen the game?

Speaker 1 (46:15):
Did he celebrate?

Speaker 5 (46:16):
No? Well, this is what I'm saying. He's like picking
the ship. If you ever come in from the pub
and you haven't seen the game, but you can see
shaking hands. You know who's won based on demeanor, right, Johnny,
Gil's going got on your empty good on your loggie,
you know, and he's happiest in the world. Fast forward
to training the next day. Now a week's a long
time in rugby league, so we got carved up for
the video session of the game. They got away six

(46:36):
or and we'd always finish on a high player of
the day, Mick all of us who came from Canberra,
good student of the game, he would choose the player
of the day. So presses play. So now we finished
the review. Now we're looking forward for something positive and well,
look ahead to next week's game. Presses play. Twenty meters
out and five menters out. Messa the dummy half looks
to the left. Gambler calling profusely, goes the other way,
goes you Lett, cut out ball sailer. I'm thinking, how

(46:58):
is this a whole must have picked the wrong tape.
And then he paused at the halfway line. He goes, boys,
this is what we need. This game was gone. Have
a look at the chase from Johnny Hare. If they
score under the posts, it's a guarantee too.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
True, yeah, it's a high standard.

Speaker 3 (47:14):
Let's try a forward a little bit.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Yeah, you go to England, but first, when you talk
about it, we spoke about the mcginner's brothers.

Speaker 5 (47:22):
Yeah, great, blakes.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
You when you went to England, you had to endure
very probably one of the most difficult times in your life.
Absolutely tell us about what happened.

Speaker 5 (47:30):
Yeah. So, Bengalia and I were going to buy a
subway franchise. Tigers had moved to Concord. We go to
Westfields and we said, oh, there's no subway here, let's
get a subway franchise. Just about how it all ticked
off and the major sponsor, just by chance him and
I went to the sponsors due We told him, you know,
we're doing this subway and they said, great idea. Have
you had it signed off yet? No, not yet. Do

(47:51):
you want us our legal team to look through it.
We said, oh, yeah, for sure. We gave him this
thick document, they went through it. They came back about
two days later, which in hindsight was really quick, and
they said, boys, that's a great idea, this subway, great idea. However,
we can do a lot better for you. A week later,
John Scandalus, myself, Benny Gillier, a couple of ladies who
are widows, which is quite sad. Jim Piper, Olympic swimmer,

(48:11):
run a private jit from Bankstown, flying to Melbourne, limousine
out to Point Cook, a suburb west of Melbourne. We
get sold into this development all right, was going to
cost four or five hundred grand, but we're sold convinced.
And Benny's a boy from Dunside, scanned as a bloke
from Cammelltown. I've been scrapping all my life, so we're
just these scrappers who were just believers and trust people.

(48:32):
And so long story short, I'm about to go to England.
So I've signed Dad as a power of attorney. I've
paid maybe sixty grand up front. I've got to probably
pay four hundred and then fast forward to time in England.
Dad saying this builder wants to take your court. So
before he goes claiming you haven't paid him. You only

(48:52):
paid him like sixty three thousand or something. I said, Dad,
I've paid him sixty up front, and I've got two
checks evidence of one hundred and seventy grand. So anyway, Dad,
we look into it and those and the guy said that, mate,
they weren'te hundred and seventy grand checks. They were seventeen
hundred dollar checks. So Radison may and who were the
major sponsor of the West Tigers, they had written seventeen

(49:13):
hundred dollar checks to the builder on behalf of me,
but they had written the copy to me as one
hundred and seventy thousand dollars checks. So for me, I'm
thinking it's paid in full. And with my upbringing, this
is a bloke just doing his best as a builder.
I said to Dad, I said, Dad, tell this guy
to drop the court case. I will pay him. And
I sat it out to just give me some time.

(49:35):
So as it turns out, I've crunched my numbers. I
could rEFInd finance a little bit from the bank, but
I'm still going to be short about two hundred K
and I can't get it. Mom and Dad don't have
any money. I can't get it. So if you think
about us moving around all the time. The one thing
I wanted for my family secured was a home, right,
So I bought a home in Carrying Bar in year
two thousand or suddn. That was the stake in the ground.

(49:56):
So all my brothers lived there, my dad, mom and dad.
We was separated by the stage and that was our home.
The very first time in our lives we could call
something a home. Someone was always living there, right, it
was everyone called it. Holly Street was a home. Anyway,
I'm going to have to sell the home. And then
an angel turns up. An angel turns up in England, right,
I'll never forget this. Kevin McGinnis turns up. I said, oh, Kevy,

(50:20):
how are you mate? He goes, oh, good man. I said,
who's leaving? He goes no one because you know the
quota system in the end.

Speaker 3 (50:29):
Yes, it was Irish.

Speaker 5 (50:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Irish. And I said, he goes, no
one's leaving. I said, well, how do you fit the quote?
He goes on Irish Cus and he's weaken on Irish Cass.
I said, you're Irish. He goes surname McGinnis. I'm Irish
cars right, yeah, So anyway, he's tearing the whole join up.
He's the best player in Super League England footy or
one of the clubs dobbed and said, this blokegain't Irish.
He's as Ossi as you come. He's proud Indigenous man.

(50:53):
So they've said, listen, you've got it by the end
of the year. They're okay, because we couldn't make the
finals anyway by next year unit to get this quot disordered.
They wanted to keep beginners too, because it's good for
the league. You got to get rid of someone. And
the other players did want to go because their last
ever contract. And I'm thinking, you, beauty, I need two
hundred thousand to keep my home. So I said I'll

(51:13):
go for eighty five thousand pounds, which was the amount
to get two hundred thousand, and they didn't. I was
playing decent, so they didn't want to get rid of me,
but they couldn't sell it the other one. Finally they
come back and say, yep, we'll do it. Thank god,
I'm home. Except massive asterisks. If you come lasting get relegated,
all contracts down void yep.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
So you've got to stay up in super League yep.

Speaker 5 (51:33):
The penultimate match. We're playing like sat Helen's in the
final round. They're playing like Wiggan in the final round Cartofford,
and you know over there, you just can't beat them.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. You're not going to be
those top sides.

Speaker 5 (51:45):
Yeah. So it came down to the last game, second
last game. But for really like neither of us are
going to win the last game, right because they those
upsets don't happen. R So close to halftime, there's this
kick and it's the ugliest kick and it just falls
over in the corner and I thought, jeez, I might
need that at the end of the game. I make
this tackle. They've attacked our line. I'm playing fullback for

(52:07):
six minutes, felt like an hour. If they score, they
beat us, we get relegated. I lose my home. We're
playing at the jungle there at Cartleford. I make this tackle.
I'll never forget. I still remember it. Make this tackle
on Paul Mellow. Games over and I'm breathing into the
grass and I never got to win a Grand Final,
lot you, But right then, in that moment, to finish
second last in the competition was the greatest moment in

(52:29):
your rugby league career because I could keep the home
and that was all because of my angel Vy Irishman
Kevy beginnings, Heavy arrived and just carved it up today.
So did you play a part in that game too,
by the way, Yeah, did any of.

Speaker 4 (52:41):
The boys know, like the boys that you were closest with,
did you let them know how important that game was?

Speaker 5 (52:46):
No? No, no, one thing, no, no no. By the
end of it, I was doing car We was like Landings.
They could work out all but no, no.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Like Johnny Gambler.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Okay, So when people go through this sort of thing,
it's collador damage. Yep, it's not just yourself, but you
know effects particularly immediate family. What sort of effect did
they have on your marriage and relationships?

Speaker 5 (53:11):
Well, soon after that, I came home. We came home,
Cob and I and we'd had a young, our first child,
and I was training on the sand hills and I
was that fit and I was retiring in my mind.
Tim Sheen says, made it come and train with us.
So I trained the West Tiger's are out there, train
with them, flogged them and he said bring me next.
They said, you're back in the squad. I played the

(53:31):
whole year, scored like forty tries in a reserve grade.
But the problem was, unbeknownst to me, I signed a
contract for like fifteen grand a game, no sign on.
So come people are saying pick me, pick me, pick me,
but they had no room in the cap.

Speaker 3 (53:43):
They couldn't They couldn't do it, whereas if they had.

Speaker 5 (53:45):
Just told me, I would have played. So it cost
me a Grand Final ultimately, and I'll never forget. After
that Grand Final, I sat on the side of the
road crying. I had debt that I couldn't climb over.
So I managed to hold it on the home, but
it was huge debt. I had no income coming in
and I always wanted to win a greend file and
I had. I was crying on the side of the road,
started drinking heaps. Kobe and I separated, so we'll separated

(54:08):
for a good six months. And then what saved our marriage.
I'm playing golf at Moore Park. Trent Robinson rings me.
He says, Jolie used to play with Robi. He says, Mate,
ever fancied you on going to France? I said, oh, yeah,
for sure, mate, you when do you want me? He said, oh,
has tomorrow sound the next day I read Kaby, I said,
we'll separate. At the time, I said, Robbo has asked
me to go to France. Do you want to just

(54:28):
try it again? And Reese in you and we'll go
to fan next day. We're all on the plane.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (54:33):
Played in France, lived in France, loved it and be
married happy. Ever since.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
You have been through some ship, let's cot to the
most difficult situation like working at toob Sorry, just to
close off Radison Main by the way, they caught him.

Speaker 5 (54:48):
He and his partner fled Australia. They ripped off all
these people, got cart of Heathrow Airport extra dided went
to jail. Get that into your pricks.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
Yeah that don't jump me open the throw gut of
the Poke Brown.

Speaker 5 (55:01):
When they fell in trouble because they no one had
ever sponsored Major sponsored two teams. They were trying to
sponsor the Raiders as well. And Aska go and see
Radison Main sounds for me and Radis is a big gains,
a big name, and they had this prid of lines.
Everything looked for me here, but I'm just tin point
Operation Asex said, Oh, who's this Radison Maine. They looked

(55:22):
into him, and then it all unraveled and wow, yeah
to JB.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
So how'd you get to to Jibi?

Speaker 5 (55:27):
So I used to just mix lett Sorry Mick, butuder
he'd get me to do fandom calls of Melbourne Cup
in the showers and it's easy to call in the shower.
And he fell sick one day and he went to
he was doing community radio and he said, can you
call for me? I said, no, worries call in the game.
Penrith versus Broncos come up with this tardy line seem
Friday crashes over on a Friday. I said, oh, thank god,

(55:47):
it's Friday and I'm taping this. I'm taping this game
and next to me the all conquering Continuous call team
there Bose Blocker, Big Marn Hadley, and I've always to
call for Hadley, and I thought, stuff it. If you
don't ask, you don't get So I thought, how am
I going to do this? He's such a busy man.
So I waited outside doors. Crash open blocker comes ore

(56:09):
Bojo comes out, Big Man Hadley and I just said, ray,
I have you got ten seconds? So I thought, no
matter how busy over and I've got ten seconds right,
I said, can you ever listen to this for me?
And I've pressed play. Oh, of all times, thank god
it's Thie. I was so disappointed. That was the part
that come up. So he listened to the tape for
about a minute. He said, I'll call you tomorrow. I'll
call you to moraw I tee what he did for me, Hadley.

(56:30):
He never ever blasted me, so he called me. I
started around the ground, started calling. He never blasted me
until one day. I'll get a call at five o'clock
in the morning and he says, maye, have you seen
the front page of the paper? I said, mate, two
minutes ago I was seen in the back of my
eyelids like I've said nothing. It's five in the morning.
He said, mate, Look, you wouldn't have got this. Dean
Richie's got the story, but there's a big racial slur
against Petrosive and Asiva. He was playing for the Panthers

(56:51):
at the time. He said, you wouldn't have got this.
But from now on, what I want you to do,
he said, instead of sitting in the box waiting for
the big man to drive aim together, he said, go
and make contacts. He said, contacts is the most valuable
commodity you can have in this game, right. So what
happened was I started to do that and I wouldn't
come upstairs until they were off here at six. So
I was meeting never one at the club land, everyone

(57:12):
at NRL Land to the point where I had suck
this over the years, I'd have all these inns where
one day I'll get tipped off about this person where
Brookvale Oval and I said, tell Hadley to come down
to me. I've got the Wolfman. And I purposely said
the Wolfman. He goes, all right, let's go downstairs. Joel
can't standing by with the Wolfman. David Whims. I said, oh, sorry, Ray,

(57:33):
did I say Wolfman? I went, I meant Wolverine. I'm
here with Hugh Jackman. No one knew he was even
at the ground, but I'd been tipped off thanks to
making all these contacts. This guy said, I'll give you
in Hugh Jackman's coming in, so I'd teed that up.
Other times we'd be at the groundy State of Origin
Seal or the Madden Brothers or Russell Crowe, wherever it was.
You weren't to touch them or speak to them. They

(57:53):
get in there do their gig and they'd piss off.
And Ray said, oh, you're going to get Sealed for me.
I said, I'll get Seal. I'll get Sealed. Don't you
worry about that. And Seal was playing at the northern
end there at Aane Zeid Stadium, and I said, just
keep an eye on me, and I'm going to be
waving by the Big League Magazine when I get him.
So I spoke to contact of the Nnerella. I said,
I've got to get Seal. Rais told the whole station,

(58:13):
the whole network. I'm going to get Seal. She said,
there's a directive that no one's to get Sealed. We're
not no one's allowed to interviewing. I said, I've got
to get him. She said, all right, this is what
we'll do. When he finishes, I'm going to turn left right,
and it's all on you. Then if you want to
cut through and go straight to him, you cut through
and go straight through him. So, as per planned, he
finishes his last song, she turns left right and I

(58:36):
bline for Seal. I've got the Big League Magazine. I said,
see it now, you mate. And I don't even like
Seal't it's the worst interview I've ever done. But I'm waving.
All I care is to get Seal. So I'm waving
this Big League magazine. Joel Canes down there. He's got Seal.
Let's go down a sideline at you. Okay. And so
I was that excited the whole interview. I'm waving the

(58:56):
Big League and Seal's like, just fucking and weave it.
He's not going to hit him. It was a shit interview,
but anyway I got him.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
Oh that's good, Okay to finish with. Want to talk
about something like that. You you love your racing in particular,
jo I've heard you talk about the Melbourne Cup sometimes,
like you know, it's ASA's most famous race. There's so
many people that love, but you in particular, you love
everything about it.

Speaker 5 (59:21):
Ashes will be on the finish line. I won the
Melbourne Cup one year. Boys, I was I was dead.
You boys been to the Cup? Yeah, so you get
on that train at nine o'clock. That's the best way
to get there, by the way.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
And I still think is a Derby Day do day?
I think Derby Day's the best day of that of
those three four days, you can't miss. What's so good?

Speaker 5 (59:38):
The train's the best way to get out there. You
get out there, So nine o'clock you're on the train.
By eleven o'clock you need subtitles, right, Everyone sideways and
we've got a runner. On Cup day, we say, lucky you,
we've got this runner. And because it's busy on Cap Day,
you're not allowed into the enclosure. Normally you can go
any time you like as an owner, but on Melbourne
Cup Day you can only go the moment that race
before yours finishes. So anyway, we're sort of allge. At

(01:00:00):
the moment the Melbourne Cup finishes, we're in the next race,
we can go into the enclosure, so we're absolutely polos.
We charge down there and I'm just stargazing. This is
the Melbourne Cup and I'm in the enclosure and look
at all these people and this says color and it's great.
And next year I get chatting to this blake and
off we go.

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
We're walking.

Speaker 5 (01:00:16):
I'm in this line and I've lost my mates and
there's a tray of champagne and there's badge, Margaret Green
VRC badge. She hands me a champagne. I scull this champagne.
She says, sir, you've just won the Melbourne Cup. How
does it feel? I said, oh, this feels surreal, like
it kind of hasn't happened, you know. So I have
another thing. I scull it. I give a big kid

(01:00:37):
since you're go and enjoy it, sir. So I go
in there, and whilst I'm in the Melbourne Cup winner's
champagne room, I see this little screen number five. Check
Sleaves goes into the barrier and I said to my
other owners, I said, guys, I've got another runner in
the next race. Back then I'll see the Melbourne Cup
after party. Anyway, sit down around the bend. They come.

(01:01:00):
Only room for Cassidy Cassidy presses. They go button saloon
soldiers starting to warm into it. Sall on soldier too good.
He is down by two lengths to win the listed race.
There we were, my mates, We won on Melbourne Cup day.
Greatest thing of all the time. So anyway, I following
the boys and I see this for me your face right,
I didn't know where we're going. Was following the boys.
Green VRC vest name tag Margaret Trey is Champagne Margaret.

(01:01:24):
She said, sir, to you again, Champagne scarlet. Give her
a big kiss. She said, so I've never seen this ever,
two in her own Cup day, including the Melbourne Cup winner.
I said, oh look, Margaret, ive got to come clean.
I tee your secret. She goes, you can see it.
I'm a vault, I said, another champagne, another kiss. I said,
I don't know how to explain this, but for some reason,

(01:01:44):
this feels better than winning the Melbourne Cup. I've been
there twice on Melbourne Cup day. But just to tidy
things up, like a lot of people ask me about
Tom Waterhouse. Yes, what was it like to follow Tom
Waterhouse and how it happened? Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
Yes, you he was? Was he was?

Speaker 5 (01:01:59):
He was?

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
He Labracks, William Hill, he was himself. Of course.

Speaker 5 (01:02:04):
Of course he started his own brand, Tom Waterhouse dot
com and that that was a betting agency, right, yes,
so he was sponsoring the footy and all that sort
of thing, and everyone's heads were falling off about it.
You're now a sports but also but I had a
catch up with this Bloke's a genius Englishman head of
marketing at the time, comes up to Sydney and he said,
oh you want to go for coffee? Went for coffee

(01:02:25):
and we're in Pitt Street where the old George Gregan
coffee house was. We're sitting down there. He's just he's
a really good leader where he wants everyone's import and
he said, if you want to have observations, I said,
I've got a big observation. I said, here's the Daily Telegraph.
You're in Sydney. Thumb through the back of the paper
and tell me when you find an AFL article league
League League. And this day it was a record league day.

(01:02:46):
It was just twenty pages of league. No AFL. And
he said, I know what you're saying. I know what
you're saying because we were very Melbourne Victorian AFL centric business.
And I said, there's a big old world out there
and it's not just say Fell. He said, leave it
with me. Nine months later from nowhere wins the rights.
But before he does it, he says, well, how are

(01:03:07):
we going to how are you going to sort of
follow Tom? Tom got everyone off the bit because it's
right racing. He would talk odds and it's free to
wear stuff right, So if you didn't like racing or odds,
you're going to be turned off. So I said, what
I'm going to do is we have to be respectful
that not everyone loves punting, not everyone loves racing, not
everyone loves odds. All my content, yes, odds will get

(01:03:31):
splashed up, but I'm not going to reference odds and
all the insights that I give. I'm going to try
and make it interesting for you if you're a punner,
and you if you're not a punner, so that you're
going to get something out of it anyway. Right. So
that's how I've tried to sort of craft and that's
how sports got involved with rugby league and the way
it went.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
Yeah, it's really good yourself and dan Ganaine, Shawnie and Sean,
it's really entertainment.

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
It's entertainment.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
You're giving serious analysis on the football and the odds
are just sort of tucked in there somewhere.

Speaker 4 (01:04:02):
People can they can pun if they want. Yeah, well
they can just back their team watching on the TV.
Before we let you go, because you're about to go
and record The Run Home on s C with Joel
and Fletch, which is an excellent show.

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
We Get This Man Live today at the studio Live
in Studio.

Speaker 4 (01:04:20):
You spoke about Fletch at the start, but what is
you and Fletched because you're you're would you say you
to a polar opposites.

Speaker 5 (01:04:27):
Yeah, definitely, yeah, definitely, I am. He's a superstars, you know,
absolute gun. I just got to play half back and
sitting in the ball early position, no dummies, and.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
It's not playing inside Homo just hit him early.

Speaker 5 (01:04:39):
But how we started, we had a photo shoot Maddie
and all the team that he and Voss and Brandy
and Jimmy and Maddie White and everyone, and let's said,
let's go grab a beer, you know. So we grabbed
me and we had four scooters. I reckon about twenty
minutes and he said, how do you want the show
to be? And I said, look, every sports show I
ever listened to, they want to go, they want to
please everyone. Temp ten percent to mays l Temp. It's all.

(01:05:03):
I said. I've never sat at the pub with that
building the conversation. Never never, So I said, when I'm
at the pub, blokes are taking the piss out of
each other. So let's do that. You know, listeners can
take it out of us, we'll take it out of them.
We talk about our favorite sport, which we mostly talk
that's what we do, and we talk about what's topical.
Maybe it's the US Masters maybe. And the other thing

(01:05:25):
is we talk about things that aren't sport. You know,
there's you know, Fletch loves that vax machine that fires up,
and so it's it's a it's a good he makes
a show, and I'm conscious of how important he's doing.
I just play my part.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
I'm always really I'm a big believer that when you're
on air, it doesn't matter what you're talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:05:43):
It's just got to be entertaining.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
It can be it can be serious. You could be
talking about Lachlan Galve and where's he going to go
and make it entertainment. You can be taking the piss
some bit of fun. Got to be entertaining. You can
talk about film, you can talk about music.

Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
Just got to be entertaining. That's the bottom line. It
doesn't matter. It's just got to be entertaining.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Yep, work, great.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
Jobs coming over the start to thanks coming all the
way over, brother.

Speaker 5 (01:06:06):
Appreciate it. Well done to Jack a too, and what
he's doing with this show, well don Jack, Oh Jack.
Can I give a shout out to one of my
favorite nights, especially Lader Maddie Craiger. Can you give him
my best.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
He's a big listener to you guys. You know he's
a big fan. He listens every day.

Speaker 3 (01:06:18):
Apparently two croaks. Great good, good footballer.

Speaker 5 (01:06:21):
Sure he does good on your man, Thank you

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#50 | Joel 'Sugar' Caine

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#50 | Joel 'Sugar' Caine