Denise talks with Robin Kassis, a 74-year old yoga practitioner who teaches variations of yoga postures that address the injuries, aches, pains, and abilities of her students who are older adults.
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Hosted by Denise Schwartz
Edited by Bobby Falco-Killoran (A.K.A. DJ Vibe Wise)
Produced by Alex Audette in the Teaching and Learning Innovation Center's Multimedia Studios at Greenfield Community College
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Backyard Oasis, a podcast designed by and for older adults living in the beautiful
(00:09):
Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts and produced in the tech studios at Greenfield
Community College in Greenfield, Massachusetts.
Backyard Oasis reaches out to older adults who seek knowledge to help them live more
thoughtfully, healthfully and happily, who hope to inspire others with their ideas and
(00:31):
who serve their communities in the interest of the greater good.
Hi, I'm Denise Schwartz, your host.
So before we start, I just want to mention that we are recording in a temporary studio
today.
The big, beautiful recording studio at Greenfield Community College in the other building is
(00:54):
undergoing some renovations, and so we won't be able to be in there for maybe one or two
more weeks.
So saying that just in case you notice that the sound quality might not be quite as good
as it usually is.
That said, I'm wondering if you listeners are sometimes like me.
You know, you've been to yoga classes off and on for years throughout your lifetime.
(01:18):
You go and you feel great after a session, but then you stop going, and you're not really
sure why.
You know, my friends who are devoted to yoga say they can't live without it.
They talk about how flexible they are, how they feel better than ever after they've done
their session.
They talk about how they sleep deeply, how wonderful it is.
(01:39):
And I believe them.
I just never kept going to yoga because I had other things to do, you know.
Some of the poses just didn't seem right for me, or maybe this pose hurt my wrists, or
doing that one hurt my knee.
I had excuses.
But now that I've met today's guest, I think I might be ready to try again.
(02:01):
Today I'm going to have a conversation with Robin Cassis.
She is a lifelong yoga practitioner and yoga teacher, and she is 73 years old.
Now her age is important to our conversation today, I think, because it helps her understand
older bodies.
She knows how some yoga poses might not be comfortable for some people because of age.
(02:25):
How some medical issues related to aging might require making adjustments in a person's
yoga practice.
And so in her yoga classes, she demonstrates variations of yoga postures that address the
injuries, aches, pains, and abilities of older adults.
Now that makes sense to me.
(02:45):
Let's see if it makes sense to you.
Hi Robin.
Hi Denise.
Thank you for having me on today.
You're welcome.
I know we tried for a while to get together, and finally here we are.
Here we made it.
On this rainy, cold, snowy, icy, almost every kind of weather you can think of day in Western
Massachusetts.
We're going to talk about yoga.
(03:06):
But yoga, that's just a little bit different from what you think about when you think about
a yoga practice.
And that's because you told me that the majority of your students are over the age of 60.
That's true.
That's true.
And so many of them started with me 25 years ago or somewhere along the way.
They clearly didn't have my problem of starting and stopping.
(03:27):
Right.
I have had students start and stop as well.
But these have continued.
Some of them have continued.
Yes.
Yes.
From the beginning.
And so you're seeing how their bodies have changed over the years.
Including mine.
Yeah.
Yeah, I got it.
And so what do you do?
Tell me about that.
What I do is I offer different variations of poses.
(03:49):
So for example, at the end of a class, we always go, or towards the end of class, we
always go into squat.
And some people's knees can't handle a squat.
So I position them against a wall, listening, having them to listen as they slide down the
wall to where their knees are okay.
I also ask people if their heels can't come to the floor directly, that they roll a blanket
(04:15):
or they roll their mat so they get some support underneath the heels.
And then I also say you can sit on a block if you need to.
Or you can sit that pose out.
So you do make those adjustments.
Totally.
And for these people who have been with you for years and years and years, they're still
pretty healthy.
You've probably seen great changes in their attitudes and in their bodies in ways that
(04:37):
lead to some really good health.
Yes.
And we want to talk about that.
But first, there was this really good example you gave me.
Let me see if I can find it here in my notes.
Oh, yes.
You said a few years ago, our local university, the University of Massachusetts, Amherst,
they were conducting a study of older adults, lung, health, and stamina.
You told me that they came to your classes and asked for volunteers.
(05:00):
And then they determined that the folks in your classes were too healthy for their studies.
Exactly.
That's pretty impressive.
Exactly.
So talk about that.
Talk about health.
And then at some point, I want you to see if you have any thoughts about why people stop
going to yoga or stop practicing.
So yoga is a great practice because it works with all of our systems, our mental health,
(05:24):
our physical systems, our spiritual health.
And it works with breath and calming the nervous system.
And it strengthens the pelvic floor and also helps it to relax.
It works with preventing osteoporosis and osteopenia.
(05:45):
It can work with, sorry, no, cardiovascular health, cardiovascular health, balance, flexibility,
yes, inflammation.
But I want to know how it does that.
So let's talk about one of the things that I find really wonderful, a wonderful result
(06:06):
of some of the classes that I have taken.
And that is how you just feel so less anxious when that is over.
How does it do that?
And is that like a really old part of yoga or what?
Well, the really old part of yoga was not so much focused on the physical aspects.
It was more focused on turning inward, more of a meditative practice.
(06:28):
In this country, we tend to focus more on the physical, on what we call asanas or postures.
And so what I find is that I pull in pieces from energy medicine work also into my classes
to help people calm down their nervous system.
And so for example, I'll give you an example of that.
(06:51):
I might have some people bring their middle fingers behind the ears, holding onto their
cheeks, just taking a nice deep breath.
Why do they have to do that?
Because it helps with the vagus nerve, releasing the vagus nerve.
Where is the vagus nerve?
The vagus nerve runs from our brain and then branches out throughout our body.
There are many, many ways of relaxing the nervous system.
(07:14):
Another one is to work with what we call the ujjayi breath, which is called the ocean breath,
or the baby Darth Vader breath, where you relax the throat, the root of the tongue,
you relax the soft palate.
And people bring that into, so I remind them during classes, to bring in that ujjayi breath
(07:34):
or ocean breath into their practice.
We start off the class that way, slowly waking up the spine, getting people settled to make
the transition into class.
Well, can you just tell me how you do that ocean breath?
Sure.
So you relax, think about relaxing the tongue and the root of the tongue.
(07:56):
And then you allow the soft palate to relax.
So the tongue slightly slides back into your throat.
And then there's like a slightly aspirated sound.
So it might sound something like this.
(08:16):
That's not happening to me.
I'm trying.
And when you can really find that breath, then the mind is quiet.
It really helps in balance poses.
So like I'll say, okay, how many of you used ujjayi breath on one side, thumbs up?
How many of you used ujjayi breath on both sides, thumbs up?
(08:38):
And maybe three quarters of the people will have a thumb or two up, and some will be like,
oh, I forgot.
But I will remind people about that, to really pull that in.
Because in order to keep a balance pose, the mind has to be quiet.
Okay, two things.
Why do we have to learn how to breathe?
Don't we just do it automatically?
(08:59):
We do.
We do do that automatically.
Of course we do, because otherwise we wouldn't be here.
But breath the way that you use the breath, if you can bring it deeply down into the body,
first of all, it's bringing more oxygen into your system, into your organs, and it helps
to calm you down.
Okay, but I feel like it's almost artificial.
(09:22):
Well, it might feel that way initially, but honestly, when you can learn to breathe into
the side body, when you can learn to breathe into the back body, when you can work with
different breathing patterns, oh yeah, the body calms right down.
Okay, sign me up for that.
I bet there are listeners who are going, oh, Denise, I mean, you really don't know this
(09:42):
stuff.
And honestly, I really don't.
I've always, you know, when I've gone to classes, we talk about breath, and I'm always
like, I feel like I'm forcing it.
But that's probably because it hasn't become a habit.
Habit.
Exactly.
Talk about that.
Well, habits, you have to spend a good amount of time on creating a habit, right?
A habit doesn't happen in a week.
It doesn't happen in two weeks.
(10:04):
I think they say in order to really get a habit in place, it takes about six weeks.
So that could be why I wasn't really always continuing with my yoga practice.
It hadn't become habitual.
Right.
So do you have to do other things?
Like do things that they're right at the same time all the time or start the same way for
things to become a habit in yoga?
(10:26):
Let's talk about that.
Let's not talk about other habits.
Well, I think you find the time of day that works for you.
So like, for example, I have one student who every day before she goes to bed for about
15 minutes, she gets leg cramps.
She used to have a hard time falling asleep.
So she will do some twists.
She'll do some knees to chest.
(10:47):
And then she puts her legs up the wall, which really helps.
It's great because it relaxes the nervous system.
The heart doesn't have to work so hard to pump blood to the brain.
And she goes right to sleep.
So she does that practically every day before she goes to bed.
(11:07):
When we're done with this recording session, can you show me how to do that?
Absolutely.
I would love to show you that.
We could go and do yoga together for the afternoon.
You heard that, everybody.
That's what we're doing.
That's really important to me.
And I want to get back to the idea of older people because a lot of us have, I guess I
just put myself in that category of older persons, didn't I?
(11:29):
Well, that's good because I like this category.
I like older people.
Me too.
Because like many of us, I have a hard time sleeping.
So I will try that.
And also, I am a dancer.
And so sometimes my legs are really, really tired.
So I will try that.
I want to talk more about calming the nervous system and anxiety because that really is something
that we all seem to think to need right now.
I think we need right now.
(11:50):
We're all like crazily anxious.
But before we do that, let's talk more about that physical part.
And I would like to end our session, which isn't going to be for a while yet, but not
too far down the road about the more spiritual part.
Let's talk physical.
And we're talking about older adults.
So there are things that are really critical for older adults, like balance.
Balance.
I'm a person who just fell down the stairs.
(12:12):
My fault.
I was being, I wasn't paying attention.
I wasn't holding the handrail.
I was just saying, balance, flexibility.
How does your yoga practice help older people improve their balance and flexibility?
Well, recently I just read that a person in their 70s should be able to hold a balance
(12:34):
pose on one foot for 20 seconds.
I write that too.
Yes.
And then when they're in their 80s, they should be able to hold a balance pose for 10 seconds
on one foot.
So you can practice that.
I encourage students to, while they're washing the dishes, while they're standing in the
line at the grocery store, to not just do it in a class or two a week, but to really
(12:59):
bring it in to a home practice.
Balance is critical as we age because we fall, we break a hip, we end up in the hospital,
we get pneumonia, right?
That's really true.
We hear this all the time, so we know that's true.
And so what do you do with the poses in your classes?
I think you had mentioned one time that you hold them longer.
(13:20):
Yes, we hold them.
Well, that sounds excruciating to me.
Well one of the reasons why I hold poses longer for older adults is that if you hold a pose
for a minimum of eight breaths, then you're holding bone health and muscle health.
How?
What do you mean?
Well, because you're putting pressure.
(13:40):
You're using your body as the weight, right?
Oh yeah, okay.
So there are specific poses that work with balance.
There are specific poses that put pressure on the bone structure to build bone mass.
And so eight breaths holds bone mass and muscle mass where it is.
If you can do eight, I'm sorry, 12 to 15 breaths, it actually builds bone mass and muscle mass.
(14:06):
Okay, like this is a real departure from what we really do, usually do.
But so are you saying that if I'm going to have 12, let's say eight breaths, one, two,
that, get to eight and hold a posture that long.
Yes.
And I do that on a regular basis, make it habitual.
Yes.
I will build bone mass or muscle mass, which one?
(14:27):
Both.
Okay.
You'll build both.
Okay, we're going to do that after we're done too.
I want to talk about cardiovascular health too.
Sure.
How does your yoga practice and how do you change what some people might do who have
a lot of younger students?
How would you change something so that cardiovascular health is looked at?
(14:48):
Well, one of the things is holding the poses longer because the longer you hold the pose,
the more your heart is engaged, right?
And it helps to bring blood pressure down.
Your breathing changes with it.
It might be that you're holding a pose longer than you really want to be, but I encourage
people to find their edge, to back off as they need to, to really listen to their body
(15:12):
so they don't overdo it because yoga, people hurt themselves if they overdo it.
So it's not like no pain, no gain.
Right.
That was a bad thing.
No offense, Jane.
No, that was a bad thing.
And to not compare themselves to what somebody else might be doing in a class, it's really
(15:33):
about your practice, what's working for you, and to really listen.
You know, as you're saying that, I'm thinking that might be one of the real benefits of
being an older person in a yoga class or any class because you're not as concerned about
how other people in the class are judging you, looking at you, doing better than you.
(15:54):
I mean, we've gotten past that, haven't we?
Yes.
It's been really nice.
It's like, you know, I go to these dance classes and I see people going, oh, I don't think
I'm doing it the right way.
And I'm like, yeah, I don't do it the right way.
I laugh at myself and I try to fix it.
You know, it's like...
Exactly.
Good.
That's really good to know.
Two more things.
And then I want to talk about something called the Eight Limbs of Yoga.
What about inflammation?
When I read on the AARP website, and they encourage older adults to really get involved
(16:19):
in yoga along with a lot of other things, they talked about how it can reduce inflammation.
Can you...
You can say, well, yes, it does, but can you tell me exactly how that happens?
Well, because it reduces stress.
How?
Right?
Well, because when you're breathing along with the poses, you're relaxing.
Your body is letting go.
(16:40):
You're melting into the pose.
You're melting into the floor.
And so less cortisol is released in our systems when we're more relaxed.
That's right.
Yeah.
And cortisol...
Remember, cortisol is something that happens...
Cortisol is something that is generated when we become anxious, when we be...
(17:02):
Yes.
Yes.
So we don't want that in our bodies.
No, we don't.
We don't.
So we want to find ways to be able to reduce that and to relax, don't we?
Yes.
Do we need to talk about clarity of mind anymore?
Or have we really kind of talked...
Alex, do we need to talk more about clarity of mind?
He's saying always.
(17:22):
Okay.
And do we need to talk about the eight limbs of yoga because that will cover that?
Well, the eight limbs of yoga, maybe we'll just go there and then we can go back to clarity
of mind if we need to.
But the eight limbs of yoga were written by Patanjali's over 400 BCE.
Wow.
So it covers nonviolence, being truthful, turning the gaze within meditation, and the
(17:51):
asanas or postures are some of that.
But the focus originally with yoga was more about meditation.
And we've gotten a little bit away from that.
But really a well-rounded yoga practice includes meditation.
So there's this thing where they say that if you have 10 minutes to practice, then sit
(18:15):
for an hour.
If you only have an hour to practice, then just sit for 10 minutes.
I actually saw that.
I'm so glad you brought that up.
I thought that was wonderful.
Name some of the limbs again because it was something I wanted to ask you about.
Nonviolence?
How?
Tell me about that.
Well, not being truthful with someone, not hurting people, being kind, being generous,
(18:38):
being kind, being kind, and our society has lost a lot of kindness.
We did a podcast, I'm talking to Alex, our producer right now, and the person who was
talking is someone you know, and he wore a t-shirt that said, be kind.
And I was really focused on that because if we would all walk around with that t-shirt
on, I don't know, people might laugh at us or do something, but other people might really
(18:59):
say, yep, that's the right thing.
Exactly.
I know, I like that.
The eight limbs of yoga.
And when we're kind to people, they're usually kind back to us too.
They are.
It's like smiling if you smile at somebody.
Exactly.
They usually smile back.
Because it's giving them permission to do the same thing.
Right.
Yeah.
They're starting to feel kind of really kind now, so this is good.
(19:22):
So we're going to start to wind down.
I'm looking at the clock.
I wish I didn't.
There's a little anxiety producing.
Looking at the clock, we have to stop.
But let's talk about this.
If I walked into your studio as a new person who has a little bit of a history with yoga,
what would it be like for me?
Well, I would say if you've been away from yoga for a long time, or if you're a newbie,
(19:44):
or you're just beginning, I would say to take, if you can, to take a private class so that
you can get the feeling of what it means to be for your body to be in alignment, particularly
for older adults.
Because we have habits in our bodies that interfere with the way that we stand, we sit,
(20:04):
we walk.
And so having a private session can help to feel that more in your body.
Now I have a student that I've seen for years and years and years who, body memory isn't
very strong.
It isn't?
No, no.
And so that person has to be reminded kind of over and over again how to move, how to
(20:29):
position themselves because of habituation in the body.
And then if you were coming into my yoga...
Wait a minute.
What about that student?
Sure.
You were talking about that student.
Yes.
That student does very well.
That student for a long time and I thought you were going to say something about what
the student did or didn't do.
No.
Oh, maybe make something up then.
(20:49):
I was really interested.
Oh, but wait a minute.
Before we go back to what it would be like if I was in your classroom.
Yes.
You did tell me a story about it.
A student made me feel like, oh, you know, some people think yoga classes, you have to
have a certain attitude.
Of course you do.
You have to be serious.
You have to have on the right clothes.
Right.
And the right clothes, the right body and all of that stuff.
(21:10):
But you told me about something that I thought was really sweet.
Oh, yes.
So at the end of all of my yoga classes, we always chant the om sound.
And so there was a time when I had laryngitis.
I could barely speak.
I could barely teach the class.
And so I knew that I wouldn't be able to carry the om at the end of the class.
(21:30):
So I asked for a volunteer.
Well, this gentleman E, who always sat very close to me, he was in his 90s, wore hearing
aids, and he stuck his hand up like, okay, I'll do that.
And I thought, well, that's curious.
He's kind of the last person I would think who would volunteer for this.
(21:51):
For doing the om.
For doing the om at the end of class.
So then we get to the end of class and we're sitting there and I'm waiting for him to do
it for him to do this.
And I'm looking at him and he's looking at me and people are looking at him and looking
at me.
And finally someone else picked it up and chanted the om.
(22:11):
So we close the class and then he comes up to me at the end and he picks up my bag and
he goes, okay, you're ready to go.
And I'm like, what are you doing?
This is the first time you've ever done this before.
And he said, well, you asked me to drive you home.
And I said, no.
(22:31):
And he said, yeah, in the beginning of class, you said you wanted a volunteer for someone
to drive you home.
And I said, no.
And I started laughing.
I started laughing and laughing.
And I said, no, I asked for someone to chant the om.
And then we both broke up just hysterically laughing.
And it was great because it was the beginning of this wonderful friendship with this man.
(22:57):
Isn't that funny how being not so formal and not really worrying about all the other stuff.
Am I doing it right or blah, blah, blah.
If I make a mistake.
Isn't it funny how that can lead to really good things?
Yes, absolutely.
And I just tell people, listen, you know, there's no one size that fits all with yoga.
Right.
You might find a restorative class that works.
You might find a vinyasa class that works, a straight half the class, which is what I
(23:23):
do.
Or, you know, you might find cherry yoga that works for you.
And just to explore, find a teacher that you resonate with and find, you know, someone who
works with older bodies.
I'm feeling a little resonating here.
I might be able to work with you.
Let me think about that.
(23:43):
I have to say, Robin, I think I might be ready to start again.
All right.
So if I wanted to find you or if our listeners wanted to find you, how would they do that?
So they could go online and my website is called with a dancing heart.
With a dancing heart.
Yes.
With a dancing heart.com.
With a dancing heart.com.
(24:04):
Why dancing?
I like to dance.
So I always.
Because it feels joyful.
And to me, yoga is joyful.
It's created a lot of joy in my life.
I cannot imagine my life without yoga.
That's what all my friends who practice yoga say.
Yeah.
I believe you.
Okay.
I believe, well, maybe, I don't know, I kind of like my life.
(24:26):
I don't know if I want to be transformed, but part of it I would like to have transformed.
So with a dancing heart.com, and that's how we can find Robin Cassis and her good yoga
practice that looks really at the benefits for older adults and changes some things so
that older adults can be really comfortable in yoga.
(24:47):
Thank you.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
See you outside later.
All right.
This is my favorite little pose.
All right.
Bye.
Bye.
This concludes today's podcast.
We're always looking for new ideas, so feel free to reach out to Judy Raper, Associate
(25:10):
Dean of Community Engagement at Greenfield Community College at 413-775-1819.
If you have an idea, you'd love to share.
Special thanks to the creators of Backyard Oasis, Denny Schwartz, Chad Fuller, Dennis
Lee, and Christine Copeland.
(25:30):
Have a great day.
Welcome to Backyard Oasis, a podcast designed by and for older adults living in the beautiful
(00:09):
Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts and produced in the tech studios at Greenfield
Community College in Greenfield, Massachusetts.
Backyard Oasis reaches out to older adults who seek knowledge to help them live more
thoughtfully, healthfully and happily, who hope to inspire others with their ideas and
(00:31):
who serve their communities in the interest of the greater good.
Hi, I'm Denise Schwartz, your host.
So before we start, I just want to mention that we are recording in a temporary studio
today.
The big, beautiful recording studio at Greenfield Community College in the other building is
(00:54):
undergoing some renovations, and so we won't be able to be in there for maybe one or two
more weeks.
So saying that just in case you notice that the sound quality might not be quite as good
as it usually is.
That said, I'm wondering if you listeners are sometimes like me.
You know, you've been to yoga classes off and on for years throughout your lifetime.
(01:18):
You go and you feel great after a session, but then you stop going, and you're not really
sure why.
You know, my friends who are devoted to yoga say they can't live without it.
They talk about how flexible they are, how they feel better than ever after they've done
their session.
They talk about how they sleep deeply, how wonderful it is.
(01:39):
And I believe them.
I just never kept going to yoga because I had other things to do, you know.
Some of the poses just didn't seem right for me, or maybe this pose hurt my wrists, or
doing that one hurt my knee.
I had excuses.
But now that I've met today's guest, I think I might be ready to try again.
(02:01):
Today I'm going to have a conversation with Robin Cassis.
She is a lifelong yoga practitioner and yoga teacher, and she is 73 years old.
Now her age is important to our conversation today, I think, because it helps her understand
older bodies.
She knows how some yoga poses might not be comfortable for some people because of age.
(02:25):
How some medical issues related to aging might require making adjustments in a person's
yoga practice.
And so in her yoga classes, she demonstrates variations of yoga postures that address the
injuries, aches, pains, and abilities of older adults.
Now that makes sense to me.
(02:45):
Let's see if it makes sense to you.
Hi Robin.
Hi Denise.
Thank you for having me on today.
You're welcome.
I know we tried for a while to get together, and finally here we are.
Here we made it.
On this rainy, cold, snowy, icy, almost every kind of weather you can think of day in Western
Massachusetts.
We're going to talk about yoga.
(03:06):
But yoga, that's just a little bit different from what you think about when you think about
a yoga practice.
And that's because you told me that the majority of your students are over the age of 60.
That's true.
That's true.
And so many of them started with me 25 years ago or somewhere along the way.
They clearly didn't have my problem of starting and stopping.
(03:27):
Right.
I have had students start and stop as well.
But these have continued.
Some of them have continued.
Yes.
Yes.
From the beginning.
And so you're seeing how their bodies have changed over the years.
Including mine.
Yeah.
Yeah, I got it.
And so what do you do?
Tell me about that.
What I do is I offer different variations of poses.
(03:49):
So for example, at the end of a class, we always go, or towards the end of class, we
always go into squat.
And some people's knees can't handle a squat.
So I position them against a wall, listening, having them to listen as they slide down the
wall to where their knees are okay.
I also ask people if their heels can't come to the floor directly, that they roll a blanket
(04:15):
or they roll their mat so they get some support underneath the heels.
And then I also say you can sit on a block if you need to.
Or you can sit that pose out.
So you do make those adjustments.
Totally.
And for these people who have been with you for years and years and years, they're still
pretty healthy.
You've probably seen great changes in their attitudes and in their bodies in ways that
(04:37):
lead to some really good health.
Yes.
And we want to talk about that.
But first, there was this really good example you gave me.
Let me see if I can find it here in my notes.
Oh, yes.
You said a few years ago, our local university, the University of Massachusetts, Amherst,
they were conducting a study of older adults, lung, health, and stamina.
You told me that they came to your classes and asked for volunteers.
(05:00):
And then they determined that the folks in your classes were too healthy for their studies.
Exactly.
That's pretty impressive.
Exactly.
So talk about that.
Talk about health.
And then at some point, I want you to see if you have any thoughts about why people stop
going to yoga or stop practicing.
So yoga is a great practice because it works with all of our systems, our mental health,
(05:24):
our physical systems, our spiritual health.
And it works with breath and calming the nervous system.
And it strengthens the pelvic floor and also helps it to relax.
It works with preventing osteoporosis and osteopenia.
(05:45):
It can work with, sorry, no, cardiovascular health, cardiovascular health, balance, flexibility,
yes, inflammation.
But I want to know how it does that.
So let's talk about one of the things that I find really wonderful, a wonderful result
(06:06):
of some of the classes that I have taken.
And that is how you just feel so less anxious when that is over.
How does it do that?
And is that like a really old part of yoga or what?
Well, the really old part of yoga was not so much focused on the physical aspects.
It was more focused on turning inward, more of a meditative practice.
(06:28):
In this country, we tend to focus more on the physical, on what we call asanas or postures.
And so what I find is that I pull in pieces from energy medicine work also into my classes
to help people calm down their nervous system.
And so for example, I'll give you an example of that.
(06:51):
I might have some people bring their middle fingers behind the ears, holding onto their
cheeks, just taking a nice deep breath.
Why do they have to do that?
Because it helps with the vagus nerve, releasing the vagus nerve.
Where is the vagus nerve?
The vagus nerve runs from our brain and then branches out throughout our body.
There are many, many ways of relaxing the nervous system.
(07:14):
Another one is to work with what we call the ujjayi breath, which is called the ocean breath,
or the baby Darth Vader breath, where you relax the throat, the root of the tongue,
you relax the soft palate.
And people bring that into, so I remind them during classes, to bring in that ujjayi breath
(07:34):
or ocean breath into their practice.
We start off the class that way, slowly waking up the spine, getting people settled to make
the transition into class.
Well, can you just tell me how you do that ocean breath?
Sure.
So you relax, think about relaxing the tongue and the root of the tongue.
(07:56):
And then you allow the soft palate to relax.
So the tongue slightly slides back into your throat.
And then there's like a slightly aspirated sound.
So it might sound something like this.
(08:16):
That's not happening to me.
I'm trying.
And when you can really find that breath, then the mind is quiet.
It really helps in balance poses.
So like I'll say, okay, how many of you used ujjayi breath on one side, thumbs up?
How many of you used ujjayi breath on both sides, thumbs up?
(08:38):
And maybe three quarters of the people will have a thumb or two up, and some will be like,
oh, I forgot.
But I will remind people about that, to really pull that in.
Because in order to keep a balance pose, the mind has to be quiet.
Okay, two things.
Why do we have to learn how to breathe?
Don't we just do it automatically?
(08:59):
We do.
We do do that automatically.
Of course we do, because otherwise we wouldn't be here.
But breath the way that you use the breath, if you can bring it deeply down into the body,
first of all, it's bringing more oxygen into your system, into your organs, and it helps
to calm you down.
Okay, but I feel like it's almost artificial.
(09:22):
Well, it might feel that way initially, but honestly, when you can learn to breathe into
the side body, when you can learn to breathe into the back body, when you can work with
different breathing patterns, oh yeah, the body calms right down.
Okay, sign me up for that.
I bet there are listeners who are going, oh, Denise, I mean, you really don't know this
(09:42):
stuff.
And honestly, I really don't.
I've always, you know, when I've gone to classes, we talk about breath, and I'm always
like, I feel like I'm forcing it.
But that's probably because it hasn't become a habit.
Habit.
Exactly.
Talk about that.
Well, habits, you have to spend a good amount of time on creating a habit, right?
A habit doesn't happen in a week.
It doesn't happen in two weeks.
(10:04):
I think they say in order to really get a habit in place, it takes about six weeks.
So that could be why I wasn't really always continuing with my yoga practice.
It hadn't become habitual.
Right.
So do you have to do other things?
Like do things that they're right at the same time all the time or start the same way for
things to become a habit in yoga?
(10:26):
Let's talk about that.
Let's not talk about other habits.
Well, I think you find the time of day that works for you.
So like, for example, I have one student who every day before she goes to bed for about
15 minutes, she gets leg cramps.
She used to have a hard time falling asleep.
So she will do some twists.
She'll do some knees to chest.
(10:47):
And then she puts her legs up the wall, which really helps.
It's great because it relaxes the nervous system.
The heart doesn't have to work so hard to pump blood to the brain.
And she goes right to sleep.
So she does that practically every day before she goes to bed.
(11:07):
When we're done with this recording session, can you show me how to do that?
Absolutely.
I would love to show you that.
We could go and do yoga together for the afternoon.
You heard that, everybody.
That's what we're doing.
That's really important to me.
And I want to get back to the idea of older people because a lot of us have, I guess I
just put myself in that category of older persons, didn't I?
(11:29):
Well, that's good because I like this category.
I like older people.
Me too.
Because like many of us, I have a hard time sleeping.
So I will try that.
And also, I am a dancer.
And so sometimes my legs are really, really tired.
So I will try that.
I want to talk more about calming the nervous system and anxiety because that really is something
that we all seem to think to need right now.
I think we need right now.
(11:50):
We're all like crazily anxious.
But before we do that, let's talk more about that physical part.
And I would like to end our session, which isn't going to be for a while yet, but not
too far down the road about the more spiritual part.
Let's talk physical.
And we're talking about older adults.
So there are things that are really critical for older adults, like balance.
Balance.
I'm a person who just fell down the stairs.
(12:12):
My fault.
I was being, I wasn't paying attention.
I wasn't holding the handrail.
I was just saying, balance, flexibility.
How does your yoga practice help older people improve their balance and flexibility?
Well, recently I just read that a person in their 70s should be able to hold a balance
(12:34):
pose on one foot for 20 seconds.
I write that too.
Yes.
And then when they're in their 80s, they should be able to hold a balance pose for 10 seconds
on one foot.
So you can practice that.
I encourage students to, while they're washing the dishes, while they're standing in the
line at the grocery store, to not just do it in a class or two a week, but to really
(12:59):
bring it in to a home practice.
Balance is critical as we age because we fall, we break a hip, we end up in the hospital,
we get pneumonia, right?
That's really true.
We hear this all the time, so we know that's true.
And so what do you do with the poses in your classes?
I think you had mentioned one time that you hold them longer.
(13:20):
Yes, we hold them.
Well, that sounds excruciating to me.
Well one of the reasons why I hold poses longer for older adults is that if you hold a pose
for a minimum of eight breaths, then you're holding bone health and muscle health.
How?
What do you mean?
Well, because you're putting pressure.
(13:40):
You're using your body as the weight, right?
Oh yeah, okay.
So there are specific poses that work with balance.
There are specific poses that put pressure on the bone structure to build bone mass.
And so eight breaths holds bone mass and muscle mass where it is.
If you can do eight, I'm sorry, 12 to 15 breaths, it actually builds bone mass and muscle mass.
(14:06):
Okay, like this is a real departure from what we really do, usually do.
But so are you saying that if I'm going to have 12, let's say eight breaths, one, two,
that, get to eight and hold a posture that long.
Yes.
And I do that on a regular basis, make it habitual.
Yes.
I will build bone mass or muscle mass, which one?
(14:27):
Both.
Okay.
You'll build both.
Okay, we're going to do that after we're done too.
I want to talk about cardiovascular health too.
Sure.
How does your yoga practice and how do you change what some people might do who have
a lot of younger students?
How would you change something so that cardiovascular health is looked at?
(14:48):
Well, one of the things is holding the poses longer because the longer you hold the pose,
the more your heart is engaged, right?
And it helps to bring blood pressure down.
Your breathing changes with it.
It might be that you're holding a pose longer than you really want to be, but I encourage
people to find their edge, to back off as they need to, to really listen to their body
(15:12):
so they don't overdo it because yoga, people hurt themselves if they overdo it.
So it's not like no pain, no gain.
Right.
That was a bad thing.
No offense, Jane.
No, that was a bad thing.
And to not compare themselves to what somebody else might be doing in a class, it's really
(15:33):
about your practice, what's working for you, and to really listen.
You know, as you're saying that, I'm thinking that might be one of the real benefits of
being an older person in a yoga class or any class because you're not as concerned about
how other people in the class are judging you, looking at you, doing better than you.
(15:54):
I mean, we've gotten past that, haven't we?
Yes.
It's been really nice.
It's like, you know, I go to these dance classes and I see people going, oh, I don't think
I'm doing it the right way.
And I'm like, yeah, I don't do it the right way.
I laugh at myself and I try to fix it.
You know, it's like...
Exactly.
Good.
That's really good to know.
Two more things.
And then I want to talk about something called the Eight Limbs of Yoga.
What about inflammation?
When I read on the AARP website, and they encourage older adults to really get involved
(16:19):
in yoga along with a lot of other things, they talked about how it can reduce inflammation.
Can you...
You can say, well, yes, it does, but can you tell me exactly how that happens?
Well, because it reduces stress.
How?
Right?
Well, because when you're breathing along with the poses, you're relaxing.
Your body is letting go.
(16:40):
You're melting into the pose.
You're melting into the floor.
And so less cortisol is released in our systems when we're more relaxed.
That's right.
Yeah.
And cortisol...
Remember, cortisol is something that happens...
Cortisol is something that is generated when we become anxious, when we be...
(17:02):
Yes.
Yes.
So we don't want that in our bodies.
No, we don't.
We don't.
So we want to find ways to be able to reduce that and to relax, don't we?
Yes.
Do we need to talk about clarity of mind anymore?
Or have we really kind of talked...
Alex, do we need to talk more about clarity of mind?
He's saying always.
(17:22):
Okay.
And do we need to talk about the eight limbs of yoga because that will cover that?
Well, the eight limbs of yoga, maybe we'll just go there and then we can go back to clarity
of mind if we need to.
But the eight limbs of yoga were written by Patanjali's over 400 BCE.
Wow.
So it covers nonviolence, being truthful, turning the gaze within meditation, and the
(17:51):
asanas or postures are some of that.
But the focus originally with yoga was more about meditation.
And we've gotten a little bit away from that.
But really a well-rounded yoga practice includes meditation.
So there's this thing where they say that if you have 10 minutes to practice, then sit
(18:15):
for an hour.
If you only have an hour to practice, then just sit for 10 minutes.
I actually saw that.
I'm so glad you brought that up.
I thought that was wonderful.
Name some of the limbs again because it was something I wanted to ask you about.
Nonviolence?
How?
Tell me about that.
Well, not being truthful with someone, not hurting people, being kind, being generous,
(18:38):
being kind, being kind, and our society has lost a lot of kindness.
We did a podcast, I'm talking to Alex, our producer right now, and the person who was
talking is someone you know, and he wore a t-shirt that said, be kind.
And I was really focused on that because if we would all walk around with that t-shirt
on, I don't know, people might laugh at us or do something, but other people might really
(18:59):
say, yep, that's the right thing.
Exactly.
I know, I like that.
The eight limbs of yoga.
And when we're kind to people, they're usually kind back to us too.
They are.
It's like smiling if you smile at somebody.
Exactly.
They usually smile back.
Because it's giving them permission to do the same thing.
Right.
Yeah.
They're starting to feel kind of really kind now, so this is good.
(19:22):
So we're going to start to wind down.
I'm looking at the clock.
I wish I didn't.
There's a little anxiety producing.
Looking at the clock, we have to stop.
But let's talk about this.
If I walked into your studio as a new person who has a little bit of a history with yoga,
what would it be like for me?
Well, I would say if you've been away from yoga for a long time, or if you're a newbie,
(19:44):
or you're just beginning, I would say to take, if you can, to take a private class so that
you can get the feeling of what it means to be for your body to be in alignment, particularly
for older adults.
Because we have habits in our bodies that interfere with the way that we stand, we sit,
(20:04):
we walk.
And so having a private session can help to feel that more in your body.
Now I have a student that I've seen for years and years and years who, body memory isn't
very strong.
It isn't?
No, no.
And so that person has to be reminded kind of over and over again how to move, how to
(20:29):
position themselves because of habituation in the body.
And then if you were coming into my yoga...
Wait a minute.
What about that student?
Sure.
You were talking about that student.
Yes.
That student does very well.
That student for a long time and I thought you were going to say something about what
the student did or didn't do.
No.
Oh, maybe make something up then.
(20:49):
I was really interested.
Oh, but wait a minute.
Before we go back to what it would be like if I was in your classroom.
Yes.
You did tell me a story about it.
A student made me feel like, oh, you know, some people think yoga classes, you have to
have a certain attitude.
Of course you do.
You have to be serious.
You have to have on the right clothes.
Right.
And the right clothes, the right body and all of that stuff.
(21:10):
But you told me about something that I thought was really sweet.
Oh, yes.
So at the end of all of my yoga classes, we always chant the om sound.
And so there was a time when I had laryngitis.
I could barely speak.
I could barely teach the class.
And so I knew that I wouldn't be able to carry the om at the end of the class.
(21:30):
So I asked for a volunteer.
Well, this gentleman E, who always sat very close to me, he was in his 90s, wore hearing
aids, and he stuck his hand up like, okay, I'll do that.
And I thought, well, that's curious.
He's kind of the last person I would think who would volunteer for this.
(21:51):
For doing the om.
For doing the om at the end of class.
So then we get to the end of class and we're sitting there and I'm waiting for him to do
it for him to do this.
And I'm looking at him and he's looking at me and people are looking at him and looking
at me.
And finally someone else picked it up and chanted the om.
(22:11):
So we close the class and then he comes up to me at the end and he picks up my bag and
he goes, okay, you're ready to go.
And I'm like, what are you doing?
This is the first time you've ever done this before.
And he said, well, you asked me to drive you home.
And I said, no.
(22:31):
And he said, yeah, in the beginning of class, you said you wanted a volunteer for someone
to drive you home.
And I said, no.
And I started laughing.
I started laughing and laughing.
And I said, no, I asked for someone to chant the om.
And then we both broke up just hysterically laughing.
And it was great because it was the beginning of this wonderful friendship with this man.
(22:57):
Isn't that funny how being not so formal and not really worrying about all the other stuff.
Am I doing it right or blah, blah, blah.
If I make a mistake.
Isn't it funny how that can lead to really good things?
Yes, absolutely.
And I just tell people, listen, you know, there's no one size that fits all with yoga.
Right.
You might find a restorative class that works.
You might find a vinyasa class that works, a straight half the class, which is what I
(23:23):
do.
Or, you know, you might find cherry yoga that works for you.
And just to explore, find a teacher that you resonate with and find, you know, someone who
works with older bodies.
I'm feeling a little resonating here.
I might be able to work with you.
Let me think about that.
(23:43):
I have to say, Robin, I think I might be ready to start again.
All right.
So if I wanted to find you or if our listeners wanted to find you, how would they do that?
So they could go online and my website is called with a dancing heart.
With a dancing heart.
Yes.
With a dancing heart.com.
With a dancing heart.com.
(24:04):
Why dancing?
I like to dance.
So I always.
Because it feels joyful.
And to me, yoga is joyful.
It's created a lot of joy in my life.
I cannot imagine my life without yoga.
That's what all my friends who practice yoga say.
Yeah.
I believe you.
Okay.
I believe, well, maybe, I don't know, I kind of like my life.
(24:26):
I don't know if I want to be transformed, but part of it I would like to have transformed.
So with a dancing heart.com, and that's how we can find Robin Cassis and her good yoga
practice that looks really at the benefits for older adults and changes some things so
that older adults can be really comfortable in yoga.
(24:47):
Thank you.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
See you outside later.
All right.
This is my favorite little pose.
All right.
Bye.
Bye.
This concludes today's podcast.
We're always looking for new ideas, so feel free to reach out to Judy Raper, Associate
(25:10):
Dean of Community Engagement at Greenfield Community College at 413-775-1819.
If you have an idea, you'd love to share.
Special thanks to the creators of Backyard Oasis, Denny Schwartz, Chad Fuller, Dennis
Lee, and Christine Copeland.
(25:30):
Have a great day.
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