December 19, 2024 • 34 mins
On this episode, Dennis Lee speaks with guest Wendy Foxmyn – community activist, town administrator, symphony orchestra musician, and so much more – about her varied and fascinating life in Western Massachusetts.
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Hosted by Dennis Lee
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Backyard Oasis, a podcast designed by and for older adults living in the beautiful
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Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts and produced in the tech studios at Greenfield
Community College in Greenfield, Massachusetts.
Backyard Oasis reaches out to older adults who seek knowledge to help them live more
thoughtfully, healthily and happily, who hope to inspire others with their ideas and who
(00:31):
serve their communities in the interest of the greater good.
Hi, this is Dennis Lee.
Welcome to the Backyard Oasis podcast.
My guest today is Wendy Foxman.
She's always been a very busy person.
Wendy, thanks for joining us.
(00:52):
I'm glad you found us and I'm glad you took the time to come on in.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you for inviting me.
Yeah, well, it's interesting because you've done a whole bunch of things.
And if I went over your resume, we'd be here until Tuesday.
So we'll just do what I think we should do and we'll figure it out, okay?
I know for several towns in Western Massachusetts, you were the town administrator.
(01:18):
Town manager is the official title, I guess.
You know, town administrator, town managers are usually in bigger communities, but some
of the not so small communities, but small, are instituting a town manager form ago.
So you prefer town administrator as an actual title, yes.
What is the difference between a town administrator and a mayor, for example?
(01:42):
Oh, well, mayors are elected and sometimes they're elected by the community.
Sometimes they're elected by the city or town council.
Mayors are only for cities.
I've worked in towns that had select board forms of government.
Well, give us an overview of where you've been because you've been in a lot of towns.
I don't want to write down all the towns.
(02:02):
I figured I'd just ask you if I said to you, where have you worked?
You could go for three days.
Well, I'll just say 13 different communities in a town administrator or equivalent position.
And I've done several interim town administrator jobs.
I was the interim senior center director in Greenfield.
Also that you didn't see that on my resume.
(02:23):
And I've worked for the two regional planning agencies that serve the Pioneer Valley, the
Franklin Regional Council of Governments and the Pioneer Valley Planning Commission in a
municipal capacity working with us.
So I worked with all the cities and towns in Franklin, Hampshire and Hampton counties
to a certain extent.
And we were talking before we started about you doing a saving lives program, I think
(02:47):
in North Hampton or somewhere.
How did it get, tell me how this all came about.
I mean, you had a degree in music.
Well, I actually didn't have that degree.
I started in the conservatory and then I had mononucleosis and it gave me time to think
about what I wanted to do.
And I knew I didn't want to be a professional musician.
(03:09):
And that's what conservatories are for.
And it was conservatory music on the campus of the University of Cincinnati, which had
multiple colleges and I transferred to liberal arts.
And I took courses in all kinds of things and graduated from that university.
But I still play music and I am so grateful for that.
We'll talk about that because that's a whole interesting thing unto itself.
(03:34):
So when you left school, then explain to us where you went.
Give us your overall itinerary, I guess.
When I left Cincinnati.
Yeah, whatever.
Okay, well I stayed there another year and it's an interesting city.
It was a great experience.
I liked the Midwest.
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But I became familiar.
Well, I'll, I'm going to tell this a little differently.
I, as a teenager, spent four summers at an arts camp in the Berkshires.
And I absolutely fell in love with that region.
And you know, I got to experience Tanglewood and the Dance Festival, Jacob's Pillow and
all kinds of cultural activities out there.
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And I wanted to, and I also knew that this area had a lot of colleges.
And I thought, well, and it was close to not as far from, it was kind of equidistant between
my parents down in New York and my grandparents and the rest of my family in Rochester, New
York.
So I found myself moving here.
And I visited a friend from high school, lived in Greenfield.
(04:39):
And I stood there in the middle of Greenfield.
Here we are.
I stood in the middle, I looked at the town hall and I said, this is where I'm going to
move.
Hmm.
And I did.
That's interesting because I've noticed with people moving to places, but also, like,
if you get an apartment or a condo and you're going to rent it, you can look at eight of
(05:02):
them.
But then there's one you walk in and you can't explain why necessarily in words, but there's
something.
I mean, you were drawn to something on that city street.
Well, I sometimes trace it back to my great love for my all time favorite television show,
which was the Andy Griffith Show.
(05:22):
And I felt like I was in a small town and everybody knew each other and got along even
if they disagreed.
That was a long time ago now.
I will maybe get to talking about that.
And I do get in trouble.
Yeah.
But anyway, no, we won't.
We'll get near there.
I've got a couple ideas, but I just wanted to talk a little bit about we talk on backyard
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Oasis on the podcast about the original idea, the podcast from Dean Judy Rape or her original
idea was to talk about transitions and how people had one job.
And then maybe they made changes and how they got to the next job and what other people
could learn.
That that's how this podcast actually started.
(06:12):
It's morphed into that.
But also more than that, just interesting people that have a story to tell.
And you have a story to tell with several chapters.
The thing that fascinated me as I was thinking about before we started today, you must have
(06:32):
had to work with a lot of different people.
I mean, you're going from job to job, town to town to talk about if you have any views
on how you're able to do that.
You come in, you're a stranger.
And how do you get people to cooperate, to feel good and get the job done?
To me, that's a really fascinating topic.
(06:54):
Well, I'd like to say I was always enormously successful at doing that, but no, not necessarily.
You learn as you grow.
And I'd say it's influenced everything about how I see life and how I am where I am today,
which is focusing on how we talk across our differences.
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And working in small towns, you see that all the time.
My first town I worked in was Leiden, actually.
And there had 400 people there.
And now they have, I don't know, 900.
I mean, they were the fastest growing town between, I think, 2010 and 2020 in the county.
But I got to experience working in a really small town.
(07:37):
And then I was very involved here in Greenfield.
And actually, when I was on the town council here, and I lived here over the course of multiple forms of government in Greenfield up until the time I did not live here when it turned into a city form of government, but I'm still engaged.
Actually, I did work here.
(07:58):
That's when I was the interim senior center director under the mayor forgy.
I think she was here at that time at any rate.
What was I going to say?
Well, we just asked about which part of it.
Oh, working with different kinds of people.
Working with different kind of people.
I was going to tell an anecdote about when I was on the town council.
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We were the smallest community with the largest town council in the entire state at that time.
It was a transitional form of government.
As people who were supporting a change were trying to move us away from selectmen to perhaps a mayoral form of government.
So at that point, Bernie McGarra, who's a well-known, historically well-known figure in this town.
He's no longer with us.
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He was a fairly conservative man.
He worked, I think he was the printing press operator at the Greenfield recorder.
At any rate, he was on the select board and we had a very divided town council at that time.
And Bernie referred to us as the hippies and the good guys.
And I always, you know, I have seen that division in every community.
(09:03):
And mostly what I see is a division between the old timers and the newcomers.
I can see it in almost every community, even those that I haven't worked in directly and how issues come up around funding and, you know,
priorities and schools and all of that kind of stuff.
And it fascinated me, which led me to the other part of my career, which is being a mediator.
(09:23):
Okay, we'll get to that.
I want to talk a little bit about and you mentioned how there's always that clash of old and new.
And I've seen it in a few cities where I think, should I say?
Well, in Northampton, I'll say that in Northampton, a lot of people came to Northampton because they thought it was neat.
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And then they wanted to change it.
And to me, that seems a little weird because you come there because you like it.
And then then you say, oh, this, but this is we have to change the older folks, not old folks, but just people that have been there.
The natives, the natives, we, we like our town.
You came here because you like their town, but now you want to change everything.
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And I hear that from a lot of people.
And it's real obvious in Northampton because there's the no-hose, right?
And then Florida, there's the hams.
And that's kind of the, you know, but that that's even gone by now.
I think that you don't see those references so much.
I'm still trying to figure out Northampton in Florence.
It's right down the street and once Northampton, once Florence, I can't quite figure that out.
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But that's, that's a whole other.
Well, I live in Leeds, but my neighbor lives in Florence.
So it's a post office desiccate.
I think it's interesting.
Let's talk about going back to being the administrator again.
What's the best part about being a town administrator?
I love people.
I really do.
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And I last worked in Deerfield.
And I worked in Deerfield a lot of the town officials and most of the town officials in
the many towns I've worked in have been older people, more traditional, more conservative,
because they retirees and have the time to serve people with children and active work
lives, you know, can't go to meetings a lot and all of that.
So that's not uncommon.
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And shortly after I left Deerfield, I was sitting a whole bunch of young people with
new ideas, got, became involved with town government.
And I said, where were you when I was there?
Because we were mostly being told we, the select board, by our finance committee.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
You can't do this.
You can't do that.
And I've thought about this as someone who was a newcomer to this area decades ago.
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And sometimes I say, I think I'm qualified to wear a T-shirt that says semi-hemi-quasi-native
because I've been here that long.
But you know, I've often thought about, gee, what is it, how would it work now working
with newcomers?
And I say the distinction I find between the old timers and the newcomers is, saying to
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the old timers, we have to do this.
If we don't, it'll be even more expensive.
And to the newcomers, you can't do that.
The law doesn't let you.
So it's sort of a joke I have with some of my colleagues who've also served in this position.
So that's the worst part, just trying to refer to, do you ever get the feeling you need a
striped shirt and a whistle?
(12:18):
Yes, because I could use better clothes.
No, see, that's why I was very attracted to the work in mediation.
Interestingly, my other work, and I'm going to pull this into this line of conversation,
I was a FEMA reservist for 10 years recently leaving that.
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And what I did was, alternative dispute resolution, what we did was mediation, conflict coaching,
training around conflict issues, all kinds of things, meeting facilitation.
And whenever I deploy, and I was still work, as a reservist while I was still working full
time as an administrator, I'd say, I use my skills more as a town administrator with conflict
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resolution than I do when I'm deployed for FEMA doing that work.
Because when I'm out with FEMA, I'm doing reports, I'm going to meetings, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
But I'm constantly engaging with people as a town administrator.
And I'm a people oriented.
I'm not a finance director.
Right.
So hire me for that, hire me for getting people to work together.
(13:23):
Right.
Now, so that's the best part.
Just like dealing with people, you say you do like that.
I love that.
That floats your boat, I guess, right?
It does float my boat.
You sent me an email, I asked you for some background, and you made me laugh.
You said I'm a disaster nerd.
Right.
No, I've never heard that term.
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So you said you work for FEMA.
So give us a little background.
And what or why are you a disaster nerd?
Well, it's interesting you bring that up because I had just come across as a memory when I
was in Lide in my first town administrator job.
They didn't have anyone to be the civil defense director.
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So I stepped up to that.
And I just came across my report for the town report from the early 80s on being the civil
defense director.
And at that point, we were all those towns within a 10-mile radius of the nuclear plant
in Vermont where every single home was given a radio alert in case there's an incident
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there.
So the report talked about that.
And that kind of got me going and interested.
And then when I worked for the Regional Council of Governments back in the early 2000s, there
was a lot of that was part of the work I was doing, working with the local emergency planning
committee that was formed of officials around the region.
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We stopped using the term civil defense a long time ago.
Emergency manager is the term now.
At any rate, I was doing that work.
And one, I was sitting in my office and I heard someone screaming in the outer office,
one of the secretaries.
And that was when 9-11 happened.
And she heard the reports on the radio at the point my mother was driving back to New
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York.
And she saw the smoke from the buildings.
At any rate, I stayed in that position for a while and I did some of that work.
I did other things as well.
And I remember as I left, I said, this is a focus I think Regional Council of Governments
needs to have.
This is where the future is.
I think there'll be a lot of funding for this.
As there was for community-oriented policing about 10 years before that, when Clinton was
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present, I said emergency response, emergency management, disaster response.
That's something, and it's not something small towns can do on their own.
Now what are you doing now with that?
Are you involved currently with FEMA?
Well, I mean, I, if you work for FEMA, regardless of whether you're a full-time person or you're
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what's called a reservist, which is what I was, you have a very specific thing you don't
just show up and people say, you do this, you do that.
That's your area.
And so mine was not direct helping disaster survivors.
I worked as a, as I said earlier, a conflict resolver with internal, with the staff, although
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I could facilitate meetings between state officials, local officials, and FEMA officials,
federal officials.
But we worked internally to keep things running smoothly, to listen to people, to help people,
to coach people who were having a hard time.
It's a very, you know, it's an interesting work for us.
People are working together for the first time, have to stand up, as we say quickly,
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and get to work.
And so.
So when are you involved or have you been involved?
When's the last time you were involved?
Okay.
So I was in it for 10 years.
I did not deploy that much.
I actually, because a large part of my time was spent not only working full-time in these
other jobs, but taking care of my mom, who was, you know, had dementia.
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And she wasn't here, but I was doing this at a distance.
And that was a huge responsibility and very challenging.
Tough, that's tough.
Yes.
And, you know, if we talk about retirement, we can get into that whole.
So I started and my first deployment was to West Virginia.
And I've also been deployed to Texas.
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And my last deployment was during COVID.
And that was virtual.
So I, that was in, I was here working from home, but the disaster was out in Washington
state.
Hmm.
Hmm.
It's something happened.
I wish it happened earlier in my time with FEMA, which was people who are reservists with
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FEMA now are treated like military reservists, have those job protections for their full-time
work.
So I'm getting too much into the weeds here.
No, but you like it, but you're still doing that.
Are you currently involved?
No, I did retire from that.
You did retire from that.
Yes.
I'm very COVID cautious.
And I didn't feel safe continuing, but to transition to the retirement part of this, that was my
(18:11):
retirement plan after I retired from Deerfield as a town administrator.
I planned to work for FEMA for three, four more years as a reservist.
Now, I know you're doing some work now with regard to mediation.
So let's get into that.
And I said, you're doing work as a mediator and dialogue translator.
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And then I thought to myself, I need a translation about that.
Okay.
Well, here's the overarching terminology, dispute resolution or conflict resolution.
Or now we're using the term conflict engagement because I'm going to want to promise resolution
that we want to encourage people to enter conflict and enter it safely or in a way that
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they will engage appropriately.
So I ran the community mediation program here in Greenfield.
That was another thing I did.
It was called the Mediation and Training Collaborative.
It's now called Conflict Management Group.
Used to be part of community action now.
It's a separate entity.
And I have been trained in 1983 and I was a volunteer mediator for a variety of programs.
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And I'm very interested in that and I secured grants to have local officials trained when
I was a town administrator.
I just believe deeply in this work.
Of all of this work around this, the dialogue work interests me the most.
I'm continuing to do that work.
So you're still doing that now?
I am.
Yeah.
So give us an idea of specifics of some kind of case.
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Give us an example of something you would do.
Would they call you?
Would you get?
How would you get involved?
How does the whole process work?
And what are we talking about?
In other words, what kind of mediation, what kind of problems?
Okay.
Well, I've been trained in divorce mediation, but I do not do divorce mediation.
I also took a training and that was one of the best trainings I've ever had, which was
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an elder mediation.
I did it both to learn about as I was entering caring for my mom at a distance and also my
own aging and what kind of knowledge there needed to be.
And that was a wonderfully transformative experience and the importance of families talking with
each other because I had family after family, friend after friend, whose families at the
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time of the death or the sickness of their parent became estranged.
And I'm not a stranger personally to that as well, in terms of my own family.
So I'm very interested in those issues.
Since leaving FEMA, I have continued to do some work with municipalities when they've
got issues, particularly personnel issues.
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And I can't talk about that because it's confidential, but that's, you wanted an overview.
So that's...
But roughly though, I know you can't talk about specifics, but what are we talking about?
People not getting along at work?
What's the general, give us a general idea of what we're talking about.
Well, you know, all kinds of things have people don't get along.
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People don't respect each other or someone.
That's a very typical thing that happens, and I've seen this in all the different work
that I've done.
People get bumped up into being managers without any training to be a manager.
And the most critical part, and probably the biggest part of many managers' job, is working
with people and supervising people and supporting people.
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And they haven't gotten those skills.
And that's where I see a lot of conflict happen.
So then what do you do when you come in a situation like that, using that for an example?
When it's not getting along with the boss, the boss isn't communicating?
Well, a lot of people, it used to be the Peter principle, right?
You go up to a point, you had skills, but you weren't really management material, but
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over time, you ended up being in charge.
That doesn't mean you know what you're doing.
Exactly, exactly.
So how do you go about changing that?
Well, there are ways that are not really about mediation.
There's training for that.
And I do think it's expanded greatly.
I see many people in this field now doing this work.
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There are coaches at the executive levels.
There are all kinds of, you know, one-on-one coaching, I think, is the most effective way
to do that.
But people have to be willing to look at themselves and be reflective.
And that's a whole big part of that.
So are you doing that now?
Are you currently doing mediation now?
I have done some projects, you know, over the last few years.
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That's what interests me.
I'm focusing more on now the facilitating dialogue across differences.
If someone calls me from a town and says, we're really not getting along, can you help?
I'm interested.
Right.
How long does that take you when you, in a situation, how long do you usually have to
work in that situation?
Well, first of all, again, it's confidential.
(23:04):
So I enter that, and I'm not saying just here now, but also with people outside the conf—
I do not go back and report to the town manager or, you know, whoever the head official is
and tell them everything that's going on, because people need to feel that they can
share their story with me and not feel they're going to be tattled on or anything like that.
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But do you normally spend a lot of time, time-wise, over months, over days?
It could be a couple months.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just trying to get an idea.
I don't want to—I don't need the juicy gossip.
I don't need that.
I just want to know the average person listening saying, well, I love that title, you know,
(23:45):
Mediator and Dialogue Translator.
That sounds fancy, but what actually happens?
Well, there are different processes.
There's the mediator who—it's primarily being a listener and asking good questions
and having people feel comfortable and trust you to share what their concerns are and to
reassure them and its confidential and coach them if they are open and willing to have
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that.
Right.
Now, I'm thinking about—
Here's something.
I'll give you an example.
Go ahead.
When I was in one town where I had a lot of—when I was the assistant town administrator, I
was also—that role was human resources, so I was mostly dealing with the personnel
and the town employees.
One department was a small department's having difficulties.
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Then I started—I had a meeting and I said, okay, what's working well?
And then—and they listed all the things that went well.
You know, it started with the positive.
The next thing I asked is, what could be done differently?
I don't say, what's the problem?
Because people immediately think you jump to the negative.
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So that was—you know, having the right questions is very important.
To generate positivity, to generate creative thinking and all of that.
So I've stuck with that, those questions in the work that I do.
And it's worked.
Now, I'm thinking of all the stuff you've done.
(25:13):
You're talking about really heavy duty, not necessarily pleasant stuff, some pleasant
stuff, but obviously when you're dealing with some of that mediation stuff, people are
angry, people are upset.
So I want to move a little bit to some of the things you're doing now to relax.
(25:35):
And Wendy sent me something.
She said, well, I could talk about anything.
That's exactly what the email said.
I could talk about anything.
But before that, she mentioned—she mentioned, I know music has been a big part of your life.
So your instrument of choice is?
Primarily violin.
Violin.
(25:56):
Yes.
Okay.
And when I thought about that, I thought, I wonder what her favorite piece of music
is to play.
Do you have a favorite?
Oh, my.
Well, I primarily play in orchestras.
And I've played in shows and all of that.
I've been playing with the Pioneer Valley Symphony, right?
That's based here in Greenfield.
We have a concert coming up on Saturday.
(26:17):
It's in Belcher Town.
But normally we play—regularly we play here in Greenfield.
There are some pieces that I'm just swooning as I'm playing them.
And it's such an extensive repertoire of music.
It's hard to pin down.
But I go through cycles on things, okay?
But my favorite thing to do, really, with playing violin is chamber music, quartets,
(26:40):
quintets, that kind of music.
I'm not a big classical music fan, but usually when I hear something I like, it's Mozart.
No, that's just me.
Well, I'm laughing because I don't like Mozart.
And we are playing a Mozart symphony.
But let me take—let me smooth that out, okay?
Go ahead.
You and whoever I be listening.
Because now I'm hurt.
(27:01):
I feel bad.
No, don't feel bad.
I figure if I mention it you go, yay!
No, no, no.
I'll tell you why.
I'm feeling badly.
It's exhausting for violinist.
It's constant—it's very tiring.
Even when I was young.
I'm not young anymore.
But no, it's incredible music.
And the fact that he had—you were playing his last symphony, the 41st symphony.
(27:23):
Like, 47th, and he died in his 30s, early 30s.
And he wrote a gorgeous requiem.
And I do love that piece.
Now I'm wondering, you like that kind of music?
Is it just classical music, or do you enjoy other forms?
I enjoy other—I actually also play early music.
I play the viola de gamba, and I listen a lot to Renaissance and Baroque music.
(27:47):
And I was like, oh, and jazz, and film music.
I love film music.
That's interesting.
It's nodding its head over there, the engineer.
We've got to talk.
My favorite music is probably—that's on the radio for a lot of years, playing rock
and roll.
But that's not my favorite kind of music.
I had stuff I loved.
I mean, I loved a lot of it.
(28:10):
But my favorite kind of music was my folk's music, the Great American Songbook.
To me, that—that's it.
I love that, too.
I was listening to Bobby Darin the other day.
I just put on that paying-dora channel, and I love that.
I wish—so that's interesting to me, because you like classical music, basically, but
you like other stuff, too, which I think is wonderful.
(28:32):
I was really interested about your answer, because I've been thinking, I'm wondering
if she really does like other stuff, or is it—do—I wonder if most—most classical
musicians appreciate other kinds of music, or do they stick into a very narrow area?
It's hard to say, but I would say that they have all kinds of appreciation.
(28:54):
My biggest gap with music is popular music, especially today.
You know, I listen, I go, where's the music?
Where's the person's voice, as opposed to what's the term for it when they auto something—
The auto tune thing?
—is auto tune.
I go, what's their real voice?
I only have—I'm not a—I don't—I admire opera, but I don't really enjoy it.
(29:18):
And I rap, I can't—I'm sorry, I'm sorry, you can put a gun on my head.
—No, we won't do that.
—No, we won't—we—you know, we—I just can't do it.
I go over to school in Northampton, I do photos for a yearbook company.
The worst part about doing the game is I love being there.
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Before they're warming up, they're playing rap music, and I want to scream.
But you know, it's different areas, and people have likes and dislikes.
But I'm glad you have the jazz, and you have all of the serious stuff.
—I also love marching bands.
—Me too.
—Yay!
—I was a drum corps fanatic as a kid.
(30:01):
—Cool!
—I loved it.
Actually, I—
—See, I knew I would get to interview you.
That was my hope.
—Well, thank you.
I don't know if you knew the lady, her name was Noreen Tiley.
—Sure.
—She was wonderful.
She was a music teacher in Hadley and then Northampton, and they had a band-a-thon to
raise money.
(30:22):
And I promoted it when I was on the radio, doing mornings, when I was first in Northampton.
I promoted it like crazy.
I had her on, I had the kids on, and I kept doing bits on the air.
But I always want to—I always wanted to conduct an orchestra.
Wow, the power, right?
So the night of one of their performances, she calls me up on stage, and they play tequila.
(30:45):
And she tells me afterwards, we became wonderful friends.
We became very wonderful friends.
I told the kids, she said, no matter what he does with his arms, play it like you know
it.
So that's what happened.
But I do love marching music.
Now, we could talk about music forever, because it's—
(31:07):
—Yes.
I just want to say one—I just want to say one last thing.
I used to say—I have to think about this, if I still feel this way—I love music that
I can dance to or cry to.
Good point.
Or both.
Maybe both.
No, I don't want to cry and dance.
I've watched people dance, and sometimes I want to cry.
What can I tell you?
(31:28):
They might think I gave you that line.
We got to kind of wrap up, but I know you're retired now of sorts.
Rewiring is—I got from my friend—he uses the term rewiring rather than retiring.
Okay.
But I have to tell you, in the last week after this election, I'm giving serious thought
to not being interested in everything, not paying attention as I do tremendously to the
(31:54):
news and subscribe to all these newspapers.
Yeah, you know—
Left wing, right wing, middle of the road stuff.
It can drive you crazy.
It can drive you crazy.
It can drive you crazy.
But I think between the first Trump administration and COVID, anticipating four more years at
this age, I really want to rethink what I want to do going forward.
(32:14):
Well, I don't want to get into all the politics.
No, that's it.
I'm just saying that's all I have to say.
I really don't want to do that.
But you're all set to retire.
You're still playing music?
Still playing?
Oh, yes.
I mean, we have a concert Saturday.
Yeah.
This is probably dated, so I don't know when this will be out, but maybe—
Can I just say one thing?
It's why politics, okay?
(32:36):
And it's not about—you know, it's—but we're polarized in every way in this country,
not just presidential election, but in so many ways at every level, and that's what
I'm drawn to dealing with, is helping people talk across those differences.
And that's why I don't want to get caught up in the anger, but in thinking and stepping
(32:58):
back is how do we talk with each other and take care of ourselves and each other that
way.
I don't think it's an easy answer, but I admire the fact that you want to do that.
Wendy Foxman, thanks for being with us.
We could probably go on until next Thursday, but—
Well, two more days, I thought.
Yeah.
I mean, there's a lot to go.
I knew you did a lot of stuff, and I was trying to narrow it down so we can kind of
(33:21):
touch base.
Sorry if I went on too long.
No, no, you didn't, but I had a lot of interesting stuff.
And I appreciate that you took the time to come to Greenfield Community College for joining
me on Backyard Oasis.
Thanks for being here.
Thank you.
This concludes today's podcast.
We're always looking for new ideas, so feel free to reach out to Judy Raper, Associate
(33:46):
Dean of Community Engagement at Greenfield Community College at 413-775-1819.
If you have an idea you'd love to share, special thanks to the creators of Backyard Oasis,
Denise Schwartz, Chad Fuller, Dennis Lee, and Christine Copeland.
(34:07):
Have a great day.
Welcome to Backyard Oasis, a podcast designed by and for older adults living in the beautiful
(00:09):
Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts and produced in the tech studios at Greenfield
Community College in Greenfield, Massachusetts.
Backyard Oasis reaches out to older adults who seek knowledge to help them live more
thoughtfully, healthily and happily, who hope to inspire others with their ideas and who
(00:31):
serve their communities in the interest of the greater good.
Hi, this is Dennis Lee.
Welcome to the Backyard Oasis podcast.
My guest today is Wendy Foxman.
She's always been a very busy person.
Wendy, thanks for joining us.
(00:52):
I'm glad you found us and I'm glad you took the time to come on in.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you for inviting me.
Yeah, well, it's interesting because you've done a whole bunch of things.
And if I went over your resume, we'd be here until Tuesday.
So we'll just do what I think we should do and we'll figure it out, okay?
I know for several towns in Western Massachusetts, you were the town administrator.
(01:18):
Town manager is the official title, I guess.
You know, town administrator, town managers are usually in bigger communities, but some
of the not so small communities, but small, are instituting a town manager form ago.
So you prefer town administrator as an actual title, yes.
What is the difference between a town administrator and a mayor, for example?
(01:42):
Oh, well, mayors are elected and sometimes they're elected by the community.
Sometimes they're elected by the city or town council.
Mayors are only for cities.
I've worked in towns that had select board forms of government.
Well, give us an overview of where you've been because you've been in a lot of towns.
I don't want to write down all the towns.
(02:02):
I figured I'd just ask you if I said to you, where have you worked?
You could go for three days.
Well, I'll just say 13 different communities in a town administrator or equivalent position.
And I've done several interim town administrator jobs.
I was the interim senior center director in Greenfield.
Also that you didn't see that on my resume.
(02:23):
And I've worked for the two regional planning agencies that serve the Pioneer Valley, the
Franklin Regional Council of Governments and the Pioneer Valley Planning Commission in a
municipal capacity working with us.
So I worked with all the cities and towns in Franklin, Hampshire and Hampton counties
to a certain extent.
And we were talking before we started about you doing a saving lives program, I think
(02:47):
in North Hampton or somewhere.
How did it get, tell me how this all came about.
I mean, you had a degree in music.
Well, I actually didn't have that degree.
I started in the conservatory and then I had mononucleosis and it gave me time to think
about what I wanted to do.
And I knew I didn't want to be a professional musician.
(03:09):
And that's what conservatories are for.
And it was conservatory music on the campus of the University of Cincinnati, which had
multiple colleges and I transferred to liberal arts.
And I took courses in all kinds of things and graduated from that university.
But I still play music and I am so grateful for that.
We'll talk about that because that's a whole interesting thing unto itself.
(03:34):
So when you left school, then explain to us where you went.
Give us your overall itinerary, I guess.
When I left Cincinnati.
Yeah, whatever.
Okay, well I stayed there another year and it's an interesting city.
It was a great experience.
I liked the Midwest.
(03:55):
But I became familiar.
Well, I'll, I'm going to tell this a little differently.
I, as a teenager, spent four summers at an arts camp in the Berkshires.
And I absolutely fell in love with that region.
And you know, I got to experience Tanglewood and the Dance Festival, Jacob's Pillow and
all kinds of cultural activities out there.
(04:16):
And I wanted to, and I also knew that this area had a lot of colleges.
And I thought, well, and it was close to not as far from, it was kind of equidistant between
my parents down in New York and my grandparents and the rest of my family in Rochester, New
York.
So I found myself moving here.
And I visited a friend from high school, lived in Greenfield.
(04:39):
And I stood there in the middle of Greenfield.
Here we are.
I stood in the middle, I looked at the town hall and I said, this is where I'm going to
move.
Hmm.
And I did.
That's interesting because I've noticed with people moving to places, but also, like,
if you get an apartment or a condo and you're going to rent it, you can look at eight of
(05:02):
them.
But then there's one you walk in and you can't explain why necessarily in words, but there's
something.
I mean, you were drawn to something on that city street.
Well, I sometimes trace it back to my great love for my all time favorite television show,
which was the Andy Griffith Show.
(05:22):
And I felt like I was in a small town and everybody knew each other and got along even
if they disagreed.
That was a long time ago now.
I will maybe get to talking about that.
And I do get in trouble.
Yeah.
But anyway, no, we won't.
We'll get near there.
I've got a couple ideas, but I just wanted to talk a little bit about we talk on backyard
(05:49):
Oasis on the podcast about the original idea, the podcast from Dean Judy Rape or her original
idea was to talk about transitions and how people had one job.
And then maybe they made changes and how they got to the next job and what other people
could learn.
That that's how this podcast actually started.
(06:12):
It's morphed into that.
But also more than that, just interesting people that have a story to tell.
And you have a story to tell with several chapters.
The thing that fascinated me as I was thinking about before we started today, you must have
(06:32):
had to work with a lot of different people.
I mean, you're going from job to job, town to town to talk about if you have any views
on how you're able to do that.
You come in, you're a stranger.
And how do you get people to cooperate, to feel good and get the job done?
To me, that's a really fascinating topic.
(06:54):
Well, I'd like to say I was always enormously successful at doing that, but no, not necessarily.
You learn as you grow.
And I'd say it's influenced everything about how I see life and how I am where I am today,
which is focusing on how we talk across our differences.
(07:15):
And working in small towns, you see that all the time.
My first town I worked in was Leiden, actually.
And there had 400 people there.
And now they have, I don't know, 900.
I mean, they were the fastest growing town between, I think, 2010 and 2020 in the county.
But I got to experience working in a really small town.
(07:37):
And then I was very involved here in Greenfield.
And actually, when I was on the town council here, and I lived here over the course of multiple forms of government in Greenfield up until the time I did not live here when it turned into a city form of government, but I'm still engaged.
Actually, I did work here.
(07:58):
That's when I was the interim senior center director under the mayor forgy.
I think she was here at that time at any rate.
What was I going to say?
Well, we just asked about which part of it.
Oh, working with different kinds of people.
Working with different kind of people.
I was going to tell an anecdote about when I was on the town council.
(08:20):
We were the smallest community with the largest town council in the entire state at that time.
It was a transitional form of government.
As people who were supporting a change were trying to move us away from selectmen to perhaps a mayoral form of government.
So at that point, Bernie McGarra, who's a well-known, historically well-known figure in this town.
He's no longer with us.
(08:41):
He was a fairly conservative man.
He worked, I think he was the printing press operator at the Greenfield recorder.
At any rate, he was on the select board and we had a very divided town council at that time.
And Bernie referred to us as the hippies and the good guys.
And I always, you know, I have seen that division in every community.
(09:03):
And mostly what I see is a division between the old timers and the newcomers.
I can see it in almost every community, even those that I haven't worked in directly and how issues come up around funding and, you know,
priorities and schools and all of that kind of stuff.
And it fascinated me, which led me to the other part of my career, which is being a mediator.
(09:23):
Okay, we'll get to that.
I want to talk a little bit about and you mentioned how there's always that clash of old and new.
And I've seen it in a few cities where I think, should I say?
Well, in Northampton, I'll say that in Northampton, a lot of people came to Northampton because they thought it was neat.
(09:44):
And then they wanted to change it.
And to me, that seems a little weird because you come there because you like it.
And then then you say, oh, this, but this is we have to change the older folks, not old folks, but just people that have been there.
The natives, the natives, we, we like our town.
You came here because you like their town, but now you want to change everything.
(10:06):
And I hear that from a lot of people.
And it's real obvious in Northampton because there's the no-hose, right?
And then Florida, there's the hams.
And that's kind of the, you know, but that that's even gone by now.
I think that you don't see those references so much.
I'm still trying to figure out Northampton in Florence.
It's right down the street and once Northampton, once Florence, I can't quite figure that out.
(10:27):
But that's, that's a whole other.
Well, I live in Leeds, but my neighbor lives in Florence.
So it's a post office desiccate.
I think it's interesting.
Let's talk about going back to being the administrator again.
What's the best part about being a town administrator?
I love people.
I really do.
(10:47):
And I last worked in Deerfield.
And I worked in Deerfield a lot of the town officials and most of the town officials in
the many towns I've worked in have been older people, more traditional, more conservative,
because they retirees and have the time to serve people with children and active work
lives, you know, can't go to meetings a lot and all of that.
So that's not uncommon.
(11:10):
And shortly after I left Deerfield, I was sitting a whole bunch of young people with
new ideas, got, became involved with town government.
And I said, where were you when I was there?
Because we were mostly being told we, the select board, by our finance committee.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
You can't do this.
You can't do that.
And I've thought about this as someone who was a newcomer to this area decades ago.
(11:35):
And sometimes I say, I think I'm qualified to wear a T-shirt that says semi-hemi-quasi-native
because I've been here that long.
But you know, I've often thought about, gee, what is it, how would it work now working
with newcomers?
And I say the distinction I find between the old timers and the newcomers is, saying to
(11:57):
the old timers, we have to do this.
If we don't, it'll be even more expensive.
And to the newcomers, you can't do that.
The law doesn't let you.
So it's sort of a joke I have with some of my colleagues who've also served in this position.
So that's the worst part, just trying to refer to, do you ever get the feeling you need a
striped shirt and a whistle?
(12:18):
Yes, because I could use better clothes.
No, see, that's why I was very attracted to the work in mediation.
Interestingly, my other work, and I'm going to pull this into this line of conversation,
I was a FEMA reservist for 10 years recently leaving that.
(12:39):
And what I did was, alternative dispute resolution, what we did was mediation, conflict coaching,
training around conflict issues, all kinds of things, meeting facilitation.
And whenever I deploy, and I was still work, as a reservist while I was still working full
time as an administrator, I'd say, I use my skills more as a town administrator with conflict
(13:00):
resolution than I do when I'm deployed for FEMA doing that work.
Because when I'm out with FEMA, I'm doing reports, I'm going to meetings, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
But I'm constantly engaging with people as a town administrator.
And I'm a people oriented.
I'm not a finance director.
Right.
So hire me for that, hire me for getting people to work together.
(13:23):
Right.
Now, so that's the best part.
Just like dealing with people, you say you do like that.
I love that.
That floats your boat, I guess, right?
It does float my boat.
You sent me an email, I asked you for some background, and you made me laugh.
You said I'm a disaster nerd.
Right.
No, I've never heard that term.
(13:44):
So you said you work for FEMA.
So give us a little background.
And what or why are you a disaster nerd?
Well, it's interesting you bring that up because I had just come across as a memory when I
was in Lide in my first town administrator job.
They didn't have anyone to be the civil defense director.
(14:05):
So I stepped up to that.
And I just came across my report for the town report from the early 80s on being the civil
defense director.
And at that point, we were all those towns within a 10-mile radius of the nuclear plant
in Vermont where every single home was given a radio alert in case there's an incident
(14:26):
there.
So the report talked about that.
And that kind of got me going and interested.
And then when I worked for the Regional Council of Governments back in the early 2000s, there
was a lot of that was part of the work I was doing, working with the local emergency planning
committee that was formed of officials around the region.
(14:48):
We stopped using the term civil defense a long time ago.
Emergency manager is the term now.
At any rate, I was doing that work.
And one, I was sitting in my office and I heard someone screaming in the outer office,
one of the secretaries.
And that was when 9-11 happened.
And she heard the reports on the radio at the point my mother was driving back to New
(15:10):
York.
And she saw the smoke from the buildings.
At any rate, I stayed in that position for a while and I did some of that work.
I did other things as well.
And I remember as I left, I said, this is a focus I think Regional Council of Governments
needs to have.
This is where the future is.
I think there'll be a lot of funding for this.
As there was for community-oriented policing about 10 years before that, when Clinton was
(15:36):
present, I said emergency response, emergency management, disaster response.
That's something, and it's not something small towns can do on their own.
Now what are you doing now with that?
Are you involved currently with FEMA?
Well, I mean, I, if you work for FEMA, regardless of whether you're a full-time person or you're
(15:56):
what's called a reservist, which is what I was, you have a very specific thing you don't
just show up and people say, you do this, you do that.
That's your area.
And so mine was not direct helping disaster survivors.
I worked as a, as I said earlier, a conflict resolver with internal, with the staff, although
(16:16):
I could facilitate meetings between state officials, local officials, and FEMA officials,
federal officials.
But we worked internally to keep things running smoothly, to listen to people, to help people,
to coach people who were having a hard time.
It's a very, you know, it's an interesting work for us.
People are working together for the first time, have to stand up, as we say quickly,
(16:40):
and get to work.
And so.
So when are you involved or have you been involved?
When's the last time you were involved?
Okay.
So I was in it for 10 years.
I did not deploy that much.
I actually, because a large part of my time was spent not only working full-time in these
other jobs, but taking care of my mom, who was, you know, had dementia.
(17:05):
And she wasn't here, but I was doing this at a distance.
And that was a huge responsibility and very challenging.
Tough, that's tough.
Yes.
And, you know, if we talk about retirement, we can get into that whole.
So I started and my first deployment was to West Virginia.
And I've also been deployed to Texas.
(17:26):
And my last deployment was during COVID.
And that was virtual.
So I, that was in, I was here working from home, but the disaster was out in Washington
state.
Hmm.
Hmm.
It's something happened.
I wish it happened earlier in my time with FEMA, which was people who are reservists with
(17:46):
FEMA now are treated like military reservists, have those job protections for their full-time
work.
So I'm getting too much into the weeds here.
No, but you like it, but you're still doing that.
Are you currently involved?
No, I did retire from that.
You did retire from that.
Yes.
I'm very COVID cautious.
And I didn't feel safe continuing, but to transition to the retirement part of this, that was my
(18:11):
retirement plan after I retired from Deerfield as a town administrator.
I planned to work for FEMA for three, four more years as a reservist.
Now, I know you're doing some work now with regard to mediation.
So let's get into that.
And I said, you're doing work as a mediator and dialogue translator.
(18:34):
And then I thought to myself, I need a translation about that.
Okay.
Well, here's the overarching terminology, dispute resolution or conflict resolution.
Or now we're using the term conflict engagement because I'm going to want to promise resolution
that we want to encourage people to enter conflict and enter it safely or in a way that
(18:56):
they will engage appropriately.
So I ran the community mediation program here in Greenfield.
That was another thing I did.
It was called the Mediation and Training Collaborative.
It's now called Conflict Management Group.
Used to be part of community action now.
It's a separate entity.
And I have been trained in 1983 and I was a volunteer mediator for a variety of programs.
(19:21):
And I'm very interested in that and I secured grants to have local officials trained when
I was a town administrator.
I just believe deeply in this work.
Of all of this work around this, the dialogue work interests me the most.
I'm continuing to do that work.
So you're still doing that now?
I am.
Yeah.
So give us an idea of specifics of some kind of case.
(19:44):
Give us an example of something you would do.
Would they call you?
Would you get?
How would you get involved?
How does the whole process work?
And what are we talking about?
In other words, what kind of mediation, what kind of problems?
Okay.
Well, I've been trained in divorce mediation, but I do not do divorce mediation.
I also took a training and that was one of the best trainings I've ever had, which was
(20:07):
an elder mediation.
I did it both to learn about as I was entering caring for my mom at a distance and also my
own aging and what kind of knowledge there needed to be.
And that was a wonderfully transformative experience and the importance of families talking with
each other because I had family after family, friend after friend, whose families at the
(20:31):
time of the death or the sickness of their parent became estranged.
And I'm not a stranger personally to that as well, in terms of my own family.
So I'm very interested in those issues.
Since leaving FEMA, I have continued to do some work with municipalities when they've
got issues, particularly personnel issues.
(20:53):
And I can't talk about that because it's confidential, but that's, you wanted an overview.
So that's...
But roughly though, I know you can't talk about specifics, but what are we talking about?
People not getting along at work?
What's the general, give us a general idea of what we're talking about.
Well, you know, all kinds of things have people don't get along.
(21:15):
People don't respect each other or someone.
That's a very typical thing that happens, and I've seen this in all the different work
that I've done.
People get bumped up into being managers without any training to be a manager.
And the most critical part, and probably the biggest part of many managers' job, is working
with people and supervising people and supporting people.
(21:37):
And they haven't gotten those skills.
And that's where I see a lot of conflict happen.
So then what do you do when you come in a situation like that, using that for an example?
When it's not getting along with the boss, the boss isn't communicating?
Well, a lot of people, it used to be the Peter principle, right?
You go up to a point, you had skills, but you weren't really management material, but
(21:58):
over time, you ended up being in charge.
That doesn't mean you know what you're doing.
Exactly, exactly.
So how do you go about changing that?
Well, there are ways that are not really about mediation.
There's training for that.
And I do think it's expanded greatly.
I see many people in this field now doing this work.
(22:20):
There are coaches at the executive levels.
There are all kinds of, you know, one-on-one coaching, I think, is the most effective way
to do that.
But people have to be willing to look at themselves and be reflective.
And that's a whole big part of that.
So are you doing that now?
Are you currently doing mediation now?
I have done some projects, you know, over the last few years.
(22:42):
That's what interests me.
I'm focusing more on now the facilitating dialogue across differences.
If someone calls me from a town and says, we're really not getting along, can you help?
I'm interested.
Right.
How long does that take you when you, in a situation, how long do you usually have to
work in that situation?
Well, first of all, again, it's confidential.
(23:04):
So I enter that, and I'm not saying just here now, but also with people outside the conf—
I do not go back and report to the town manager or, you know, whoever the head official is
and tell them everything that's going on, because people need to feel that they can
share their story with me and not feel they're going to be tattled on or anything like that.
(23:25):
But do you normally spend a lot of time, time-wise, over months, over days?
It could be a couple months.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just trying to get an idea.
I don't want to—I don't need the juicy gossip.
I don't need that.
I just want to know the average person listening saying, well, I love that title, you know,
(23:45):
Mediator and Dialogue Translator.
That sounds fancy, but what actually happens?
Well, there are different processes.
There's the mediator who—it's primarily being a listener and asking good questions
and having people feel comfortable and trust you to share what their concerns are and to
reassure them and its confidential and coach them if they are open and willing to have
(24:09):
that.
Right.
Now, I'm thinking about—
Here's something.
I'll give you an example.
Go ahead.
When I was in one town where I had a lot of—when I was the assistant town administrator, I
was also—that role was human resources, so I was mostly dealing with the personnel
and the town employees.
One department was a small department's having difficulties.
(24:32):
Then I started—I had a meeting and I said, okay, what's working well?
And then—and they listed all the things that went well.
You know, it started with the positive.
The next thing I asked is, what could be done differently?
I don't say, what's the problem?
Because people immediately think you jump to the negative.
(24:52):
So that was—you know, having the right questions is very important.
To generate positivity, to generate creative thinking and all of that.
So I've stuck with that, those questions in the work that I do.
And it's worked.
Now, I'm thinking of all the stuff you've done.
(25:13):
You're talking about really heavy duty, not necessarily pleasant stuff, some pleasant
stuff, but obviously when you're dealing with some of that mediation stuff, people are
angry, people are upset.
So I want to move a little bit to some of the things you're doing now to relax.
(25:35):
And Wendy sent me something.
She said, well, I could talk about anything.
That's exactly what the email said.
I could talk about anything.
But before that, she mentioned—she mentioned, I know music has been a big part of your life.
So your instrument of choice is?
Primarily violin.
Violin.
(25:56):
Yes.
Okay.
And when I thought about that, I thought, I wonder what her favorite piece of music
is to play.
Do you have a favorite?
Oh, my.
Well, I primarily play in orchestras.
And I've played in shows and all of that.
I've been playing with the Pioneer Valley Symphony, right?
That's based here in Greenfield.
We have a concert coming up on Saturday.
(26:17):
It's in Belcher Town.
But normally we play—regularly we play here in Greenfield.
There are some pieces that I'm just swooning as I'm playing them.
And it's such an extensive repertoire of music.
It's hard to pin down.
But I go through cycles on things, okay?
But my favorite thing to do, really, with playing violin is chamber music, quartets,
(26:40):
quintets, that kind of music.
I'm not a big classical music fan, but usually when I hear something I like, it's Mozart.
No, that's just me.
Well, I'm laughing because I don't like Mozart.
And we are playing a Mozart symphony.
But let me take—let me smooth that out, okay?
Go ahead.
You and whoever I be listening.
Because now I'm hurt.
(27:01):
I feel bad.
No, don't feel bad.
I figure if I mention it you go, yay!
No, no, no.
I'll tell you why.
I'm feeling badly.
It's exhausting for violinist.
It's constant—it's very tiring.
Even when I was young.
I'm not young anymore.
But no, it's incredible music.
And the fact that he had—you were playing his last symphony, the 41st symphony.
(27:23):
Like, 47th, and he died in his 30s, early 30s.
And he wrote a gorgeous requiem.
And I do love that piece.
Now I'm wondering, you like that kind of music?
Is it just classical music, or do you enjoy other forms?
I enjoy other—I actually also play early music.
I play the viola de gamba, and I listen a lot to Renaissance and Baroque music.
(27:47):
And I was like, oh, and jazz, and film music.
I love film music.
That's interesting.
It's nodding its head over there, the engineer.
We've got to talk.
My favorite music is probably—that's on the radio for a lot of years, playing rock
and roll.
But that's not my favorite kind of music.
I had stuff I loved.
I mean, I loved a lot of it.
(28:10):
But my favorite kind of music was my folk's music, the Great American Songbook.
To me, that—that's it.
I love that, too.
I was listening to Bobby Darin the other day.
I just put on that paying-dora channel, and I love that.
I wish—so that's interesting to me, because you like classical music, basically, but
you like other stuff, too, which I think is wonderful.
(28:32):
I was really interested about your answer, because I've been thinking, I'm wondering
if she really does like other stuff, or is it—do—I wonder if most—most classical
musicians appreciate other kinds of music, or do they stick into a very narrow area?
It's hard to say, but I would say that they have all kinds of appreciation.
(28:54):
My biggest gap with music is popular music, especially today.
You know, I listen, I go, where's the music?
Where's the person's voice, as opposed to what's the term for it when they auto something—
The auto tune thing?
—is auto tune.
I go, what's their real voice?
I only have—I'm not a—I don't—I admire opera, but I don't really enjoy it.
(29:18):
And I rap, I can't—I'm sorry, I'm sorry, you can put a gun on my head.
—No, we won't do that.
—No, we won't—we—you know, we—I just can't do it.
I go over to school in Northampton, I do photos for a yearbook company.
The worst part about doing the game is I love being there.
(29:40):
Before they're warming up, they're playing rap music, and I want to scream.
But you know, it's different areas, and people have likes and dislikes.
But I'm glad you have the jazz, and you have all of the serious stuff.
—I also love marching bands.
—Me too.
—Yay!
—I was a drum corps fanatic as a kid.
(30:01):
—Cool!
—I loved it.
Actually, I—
—See, I knew I would get to interview you.
That was my hope.
—Well, thank you.
I don't know if you knew the lady, her name was Noreen Tiley.
—Sure.
—She was wonderful.
She was a music teacher in Hadley and then Northampton, and they had a band-a-thon to
raise money.
(30:22):
And I promoted it when I was on the radio, doing mornings, when I was first in Northampton.
I promoted it like crazy.
I had her on, I had the kids on, and I kept doing bits on the air.
But I always want to—I always wanted to conduct an orchestra.
Wow, the power, right?
So the night of one of their performances, she calls me up on stage, and they play tequila.
(30:45):
And she tells me afterwards, we became wonderful friends.
We became very wonderful friends.
I told the kids, she said, no matter what he does with his arms, play it like you know
it.
So that's what happened.
But I do love marching music.
Now, we could talk about music forever, because it's—
(31:07):
—Yes.
I just want to say one—I just want to say one last thing.
I used to say—I have to think about this, if I still feel this way—I love music that
I can dance to or cry to.
Good point.
Or both.
Maybe both.
No, I don't want to cry and dance.
I've watched people dance, and sometimes I want to cry.
What can I tell you?
(31:28):
They might think I gave you that line.
We got to kind of wrap up, but I know you're retired now of sorts.
Rewiring is—I got from my friend—he uses the term rewiring rather than retiring.
Okay.
But I have to tell you, in the last week after this election, I'm giving serious thought
to not being interested in everything, not paying attention as I do tremendously to the
(31:54):
news and subscribe to all these newspapers.
Yeah, you know—
Left wing, right wing, middle of the road stuff.
It can drive you crazy.
It can drive you crazy.
It can drive you crazy.
But I think between the first Trump administration and COVID, anticipating four more years at
this age, I really want to rethink what I want to do going forward.
(32:14):
Well, I don't want to get into all the politics.
No, that's it.
I'm just saying that's all I have to say.
I really don't want to do that.
But you're all set to retire.
You're still playing music?
Still playing?
Oh, yes.
I mean, we have a concert Saturday.
Yeah.
This is probably dated, so I don't know when this will be out, but maybe—
Can I just say one thing?
It's why politics, okay?
(32:36):
And it's not about—you know, it's—but we're polarized in every way in this country,
not just presidential election, but in so many ways at every level, and that's what
I'm drawn to dealing with, is helping people talk across those differences.
And that's why I don't want to get caught up in the anger, but in thinking and stepping
(32:58):
back is how do we talk with each other and take care of ourselves and each other that
way.
I don't think it's an easy answer, but I admire the fact that you want to do that.
Wendy Foxman, thanks for being with us.
We could probably go on until next Thursday, but—
Well, two more days, I thought.
Yeah.
I mean, there's a lot to go.
I knew you did a lot of stuff, and I was trying to narrow it down so we can kind of
(33:21):
touch base.
Sorry if I went on too long.
No, no, you didn't, but I had a lot of interesting stuff.
And I appreciate that you took the time to come to Greenfield Community College for joining
me on Backyard Oasis.
Thanks for being here.
Thank you.
This concludes today's podcast.
We're always looking for new ideas, so feel free to reach out to Judy Raper, Associate
(33:46):
Dean of Community Engagement at Greenfield Community College at 413-775-1819.
If you have an idea you'd love to share, special thanks to the creators of Backyard Oasis,
Denise Schwartz, Chad Fuller, Dennis Lee, and Christine Copeland.
(34:07):
Have a great day.
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