Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's a huge
misunderstanding.
I've had licensed counselorswho've been in the profession
for 10, 15 years.
I've had licensed professionalcounseling supervisors question
me and literally look at mepoint blank and go how are you
doing that?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome to Badass
Therapists, building practices
that thrive, where it's allabout working smarter, not
harder.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Now here's your host,
dr Kate Walker who's counting
down the months until she has?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
her first grandkid.
If you're a supervisor, orplanning to become one, this
episode is a must listen.
We're breaking down whathappens when you want to
supervise across state lines andthe roadblocks and
possibilities that come with it.
And don't forget the SmartPractice Sprint.
This virtual event starts June2nd.
(00:56):
Day one is totally free andit's all about helping you build
a profitable, streamlinedprivate practice.
Sign up now atkatewalkertrainingcom slash
bonus and be sure to catch themid-roll for more details.
Now let's get to work.
(01:17):
Hey, I'm Dr Kate Walker and weare going to continue our
conversation about CounselingCompact.
What this is, it's a way to getrid of barriers so counselors
can counsel their clients acrossstate lines.
So what does Texas have to sayabout counseling across state
lines?
It's where your client's feetare.
(01:40):
Where your client's feet are,that's where counseling is
happening.
Not every state does that.
Most states do.
And, of course, if you are doingan international thing and
you're a digital nomad, you know, and you're in a country that
doesn't have any counselingrules at all or doesn't even
have the term counseling, that'sreally sort of a wild card
(02:03):
right, because you would have toabide by the rules for that
country.
And so when we are in Texas andwe're seeing a client and our
client decides to go, let's say,to California.
Well, you and Google counselingin California.
What does California have tosay about that?
And it just so happens, as ofthis recording, california
(02:26):
allows you to have a fewsessions across state lines, for
if I'm in another state and theclient is in their state, so
that's good if you have a clientgoing to California, but not so
much in other states.
So I invited Jennifer to comeon because she knows about this
stuff too, and you are actuallyin it because you are a
(02:46):
counselor in another state.
So talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So I work out of the
state of New Hampshire.
New Hampshire is actually apart of the counseling compact.
However, I cannot takeadvantage of that because New
Hampshire is not my home state.
So, because Texas isn't a partof the counseling compact, if I
want to counsel in any state Ihave to get licensed in that
state, regardless of whether ornot they are a part of the
(03:12):
counseling compact.
It's interesting becausethere's a misconception that New
Hampshire is one of the mostdifficult states as far as
licensure rules and regulationsgo.
But what I found is that Texasis a lot stricter and so getting
licensed in another state iskind of a difficult process.
(03:33):
Utah, for example, they require4,000 hours.
So if you don't have 4,000postgraduate hours, they require
you to get that additional1,000.
And so that's why thecounseling compact is so
important, because it kind ofkeeps us from having to like
jump through the hoops here,jump through the hoops there and
get licensed in more states.
But yeah, I can work in NewHampshire, but I can't work in
(03:55):
any of the compact statesthrough New Hampshire because
it's not my home state.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
That's interesting,
because that wasn't one of the
cons we even talked about lastweek.
Right, and you get pushbacksometimes because people don't
understand.
You can be in Texas and be alicensed New Hampshire counselor
and see clients, while yourfeet are in Texas and the
client's feet are in NewHampshire.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It's a huge
misunderstanding.
I've had licensed counselorswho've been in the profession
for 10, 15 years.
I've had licensed professionalcounseling supervisors question
me and literally look at mepoint blank and go how are you
doing that?
And I'm like, just thinklogically through this.
(04:36):
I submitted an application withmy address in Texas, I made it
very clear where I reside andthat board approved me.
So it's not a legality question, but there's a lot of
misconceptions because for solong we've been told that the
client's feet have to be inTexas and it's like the
(04:59):
telephone game Somehow that'snow transitioned to everybody's
feet have to be in Texas, nomatter what.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And so I just kind of
laugh and yeah, OK, and if
you're, you know, if you stalkthe threads, for you know the
digital nomad groups, you knowthe traveling therapists and
things like that Great groups Infact, if you, if you need to
know the rules for othercountries and other states,
highly recommend that you jointhose groups.
(05:26):
But with the Counseling Compact, it's not all roses either.
I mean, one of the things wetalked about last week was the
idea that folks like me whonever took the NCE I mean, I got
licensed back when it was stilla Texas license test right, it
was just for Texas, built forTexas, made by Texas, whatever
(05:51):
and one of the stipulations is60 credit hours and passing the
MCE and please, please, don'tquote me.
This could all change, right,this is just kind of what exists
right now.
It's not the NCMHCE, which isanother exam that Texas accepts.
So this idea that, okay, whenthe FOMPAC comes, it's all you
know, kumbaya, and we're allgoing to be able to, just, you
know, take our licenses, likeour driver's licenses, and cross
state lines everywhere and doour thing, maybe not, and there
(06:14):
will be a process.
Right, there's going to be acompact board, there's going to
be a website where you actuallyapply and pay a fee and make
sure that you do what you needto do to be an operational part
of the compact and, as Jennifersaid, right now Texas is not in
it right.
This is our second round to tryto get that passed, and it's a
(06:38):
legislative issue, not a boardissue.
It's not a BHEK issue, it is alegislative issue, so all right.
So I hope that catcheseverybody up.
If not, go back to last week'sepisode and get more details.
So let's talk about supervision.
So, jennifer, can you superviseacross state lines?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
If you are licensed
to supervise in that state.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Well, and that's
that's part of this too, right
Understanding that supervisionis not counseling.
Ok, so when you're supervisingand your associate is in, let's
say, new Hampshire, well, ifyour supervisee in New Hampshire
is accruing hours for Texas andyou are a Texas supervisor,
(07:26):
well you can supervise them forthose Texas hours.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
But if they are
licensed in New Hampshire and
you're a Texas supervisor, yoursupervision isn't going to count
for those New Hampshire hours.
I mean, am I saying that right,jennifer?
Yes, and that's there's asignificant misunderstanding and
you have to go back to logic.
Okay, so if I go to grad schoolin Texas and then I get a Texas
supervisor and I move to Maine,I don't need to start over,
right, like I don't need tostart over, right, like I don't
need to start over.
(08:04):
I could live in Maine and stillsee clients in Texas and that
count towards my Texas licensurehours, just like I have in New
Hampshire.
I'm under supervision in NewHampshire, right, because I'm
seeking full licensure in NewHampshire.
I also have a supervisor inTexas because I'm seeking full
licensure in New Hampshire.
I also have a supervisor inTexas because I'm seeking full
licensure in Texas.
(08:24):
As long as both supervisorsmeet the qualifications of that
state, I can count those hourstowards both license, regardless
of where they're done.
Because people forget people.
We move, we go places, we doother things and there's this
belief that I got my license inTexas and I moved to Maine and
therefore my hours no longercount and it just all goes.
(08:45):
Does that make sense?
Yeah, did I answer yourquestion right?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
No, you're doing and
it brings to mind you know,
because I know where that beliefcomes from.
Right, pre-covid, when wecouldn't do virtual if you moved
to Maine, you were kind of outof luck.
Right, okay, I'm in Maine nowbecause my partner's in the
military or for whatever reasonmy partner's job.
So I guess I just have to giveup my associateship in Texas.
Right, because the only peopleI can see are Mainers.
(09:12):
Right?
Well now, since your client'sfeet are in Texas, your body's
in Maine, your clients are inTexas, you have a Texas
supervisor.
You can finish your Texasassociate experience hours and
become a Texas LPC, if that'swhat you still want to do.
Right, if you want to become aMaine therapist, then you would
(09:34):
have to find a Maine supervisorand make sure you pass and do
all the things Maine wants youto do.
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(09:55):
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(10:18):
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right back to the show.
So two aspects of this are wherethe client's feet are right.
(10:40):
That's where counseling ishappening.
But now this other aspect iswhere you want to be licensed.
Right, If you want to belicensed in a particular state,
you need to find a supervisorfrom that state, if that state
even requires supervision.
I mean, we still have statesthat don't require a supervisor,
so we're kind of drifting awayfrom the compact idea.
(11:01):
Because supervision isspecifically for licensure and
so in Texas an associate cannotsee clients unless they have a
supervisor.
So if the supervisor and theassociate have a falling out and
the associate fires theirsupervisor, the associate cannot
(11:22):
see clients until they haveanother supervisor for those
Texas hours.
So yes, the supervisor isnecessary for those experience
hours toward licensure.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
One of the things
that I from my understanding
just because I read a lot aboutthe compact, because it does
apply to a state that I'mlicensed in that the compact
does not allow associates orprovisional licenses or
candidacy licenses, whatever thestate calls it.
They do not allow them tooperate under the compact.
So my supervisor in NewHampshire would be covered under
(11:58):
the compact and she could seepeople in Connecticut, but that
doesn't mean that I can also seepeople in Connecticut.
You have to be fully licensedand I think that's the other
misconception.
When it comes to supervisionand I have seen a question in an
associate group, they were,like my supervisor, my state's
part of the counseling compactand because my supervisor said
(12:19):
I'm operating under theirlicense, I can see clients in
any state.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
That's right.
I remember that question.
That is untrue.
I think we need to say thatagain because let's say both
parts of it.
So, first of all, associatesthe compact isn't going to help
you at all, associates and I'mlooking at that.
You know you have to have amaster's degree check, 60 credit
hours, check, passing the NCEcheck, check, check, clean
(12:45):
disciplinary record.
But you have to have anunencumbered independent license
to be able to take advantage ofthe compact.
Now, that was part one.
I'm glad you clarified that.
Part two is that weirdmisconception we ran across and
say that again.
I think we need to make surethat people understand this.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
So it was an
associate asking the question.
Their home state is a compactstate and their supervisor told
them that they could see clientsin any state part of the
compact because they wereoperating under the supervisor's
license.
The supervisor made it soundlike to the associate that, like
(13:32):
the associate doesn't havetheir own license, their license
is.
The supervisor made it soundlike to the associate that, like
the associate doesn't havetheir own license, their license
is the supervisor's license andtherefore they have all the
leniency qualifications,whatever that they hold.
And the associate was like Ipushed back because they keep
assigning me clients in otherstates and I don't think I can
see them.
Do I need to find a newsupervisor?
Because there was, you know,misunderstandings.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yes, because that is
absolutely, unequivocally untrue
, because we don't know.
I mean, all Jennifer and I knoware supervision rules in Texas.
So in Texas an LPC associatecan do anything their supervisor
can do.
Lmft associate can do anythingtheir supervisor can do with the
supervisor's permission.
(14:14):
If the supervisor says, yes, godo hypnotherapy, it's
absolutely okay, then there'snothing prohibiting that
associate from doing that.
But that's not the same thingas having all the rights and
privileges that thatindependently licensed
supervisor has.
So if your supervisor is partof the compact and they can do
(14:37):
therapy anywhere, any state inthe compact, yay, you associate.
Cannot that clear?
That clear, right?
I'm just thinking of people whoare going to bump into this
podcast episode and be like thatone little section where you're
describing it, it's like no, no, no, no, you can't do that.
All right.
So compact and supervision it'skind of a weird.
(15:00):
It really the compact doesn'taffect supervision, right?
If you're going to superviseyour Texas supervisee in a
different state, that's okay ifthey are accruing hours for
clients located in Texas.
So I hope that makes sense.
So thank you, jennifer, forcoming on and talking about that
(15:21):
.
Absolutely, all right, see youlater.
Thanks for listening.
If today's episode got youfired up to finally build the
private practice you've beendreaming about.
Don't miss the Smart PracticeSprint.
It's happening virtually, soyou can join from anywhere, your
(15:46):
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Slash bonus to register,remember, night one is
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And here's the exciting part.
I'll be taking this sprint onthe road in Texas.
(16:06):
Soon I'm going to be coming toDFW, austin, houston, el Paso so
wherever you are, I'll becoming to a city near you.
Can't wait to see you insidethe Sprint and maybe shake your
hand in person real soon.
I'm Dr Kate Walker.
(16:31):
Thank you so much for listening.
I'm Dr Kate Walker.
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(16:54):
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You.