136 Understanding the Texas Counseling Compact with Dr. Kathy Ybanez-Llorente

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:22):
All right, all right, kathy, before we get started,
in case you missed thecommercial, if you need CEs for
this evening, your certificateis already in your Kate Walker
training profile.
We just ask that you leave yourcamera on and if you would like
to ask a question, we do havefacilitators so you can use your

(00:43):
chat.
So take a second and find yourchat function, click it and pull
it out so that you can see that.
And remember we will have anattendance Google form, so we
will throw that link into thechat several times.
When you see it, click it.
You don't have to fill it outright away, but it's great to
have open, because once we shutdown the meeting, then that link

(01:05):
goes away as well.
All right, now on to thecompact.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
So, dr Kathy, Thank you so much, kate.
I appreciate you inviting me tojoin you and talk a little bit
more about the compact.
I already see some familiarfaces, so welcome.
I see you smiling, so you knowthat I see you, so hello.
Yeah, nice to see familiarfaces there.

(01:31):
Let's see, I'm going to goahead and share.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah, I just made you co-host, or I tried to.
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
It's working.
I just want to make sure I grabthe right one.
I want to make sure you can seethat.
All right, super Okay.

(02:03):
And so, kate, you all will bemanaging Q&A and chat and things
like that.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yes, and the link was just posted, you guys.
So if you want to go ahead andgrab that link and open it, and
then you'll have it.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
All right, great.
Well, thank you for joining me.
So Kate reached out to me acouple of people with some
questions and we were kind ofgoing back and forth, and she
then asked me to do this webinarand couple hour presentations
on the compact.
So I have a lot of information.

(02:48):
I'm actually having to reallythrow out a lot of extra
information that I can talkabout, so I definitely want to
leave time for questions though.
So I'm going to speed throughsome of this information.
I will make some sort of ahandout available to Kate
afterwards that she can sharewith you.

(03:09):
Some of this is like extrafluff stuff that you don't need.
Otherwise I would just sharenow, but it'd be way too many
slides for you.
So, but I will get it to Kateand she will get it to you as
well.
But yeah, kathy Ipani-Ziorente,I am an LPC supervisor in the
state of Texas, so I've beenlicensed in Texas since 1998.

(03:31):
I've seen some licensurechanges over time and that's
actually what has made me mostinterested in licensure
regulations.
So I'm going to talk about.
I am going to go a little bitback and talk about portability
efforts nationwide and theattempts to regulate portability

(03:57):
across a number of states andwhat some organizations have
attempted to do prior to thiscompact and what some
organizations have attempted todo prior to this compact.
I'll talk about how the compactitself was developed and what
went into the compact.
We'll talk about Texas andwhere that stands and just
current advocacy that you can bean active participant in and

(04:22):
then, like I said, q&a as well,participant in and then, like I
said, q&a as well.
So really quickly, in the timethat I've been licensed, really
actually it was more of my docprograms about the last 24 years
about a big part of my life hasalso been not just being a

(04:42):
counselor but also beinginvolved in the counseling
profession from a serviceperspective.
So I've been involved inprofessional organizations and
done a lot of different kinds ofservice.
As Kate mentioned, texasCounseling Association, but also
TASES, so Texas Association forCounselor Education and

(05:03):
Supervision.
So professors and supervisorsthat's at the state level and
then at the national level havebeen involved with American
Counseling Association in anumber of divisions but have
been involved in things likeprofessional standard committees
for ACA ethics committee, doingethics adjudications for

(05:24):
American Counseling Associationand then also serving as a
parliamentarian for AmericanCounseling Association.
Next year I will actually be atreasurer for American
Counseling Association as well.
But out of these two serviceopportunities or these, I would
say, at the state level again,what drove my interest in state

(05:45):
regulation specificallylicensure was being able to
serve as the first liaison forTASES to the licensing board.
So for five years, from 2006 to2011, got to follow the
licensing board around Texas onbehalf of TASES and sit in every

(06:07):
single meeting that they had,and of course everyone knows the
most interesting meetings wouldhave been the complaint
hearings, where you got toreally hear what was happening
all across the state forlicensees.
But during those five years mygoal and my task really was to
ensure that supervisors andeducators had a seat at the

(06:31):
table and that we wererebuilding a relationship with
the licensing board, and so thatbecame really important to
ensure that, as licensingregulations were changing in our
state, the people who weretasked with educating future
counselors we were all on thesame page with that and then
also supervisors who were doingpost-grad supervision again were

(06:55):
all on the same page, and sothat I would say was probably
the most interesting serviceresponsibility that I've done
and, again, five years offollowing the board around.
It's probably the one thing.
People ask me what do I stillwant to do?
Not really shooting for likepresidency of anything anymore.
Really, that's probably thelast thing that I would like to

(07:17):
do.
I'd like to serve on thelicensing board, so if any of
you can help me get appointedI'm just kidding, but anyway, at
the national level, we'll see.
So at the national level.
Again, my interest in licensureand regulation many of the
people that I knew knew that Iwas interested in this and that

(07:40):
was part of some of the thingsthat I was researching.
So they knew I had my owndatabases related to licensure
and when this came up this beingthe compact I was one of 20
people who were asked to serveon the occupational licensure
compact advisory group to createthe compact, and so that was in

(08:05):
2019.
And so I'll talk a little bitmore about that as well.
So I kind of joke about thingslike this is how I spend my free
time is doing service to theprofession, but I enjoy it so.
So, national portability effortsI'm not going to go into detail
about this because you can talkabout this for hours really,
but for a very long time,national organizations have

(08:30):
really attempted to helpprofessional counselors across
the nation find ways to becomeportable, and we know that every
state has their own regulationof professional counselors, and
so that also means thatsometimes that state's
regulations might be differentthan the state that you

(08:51):
currently reside in.
So it's not as easy as itsounds to get licensed in
another state, and some peoplehave had nightmares of
experiences getting licensed inother states.
Some people have had easy,easier times, depending on the
state, and so there've been alot of different portability
plans that have been createdthat you know had things like

(09:16):
you just have to have five yearsof practice with nothing, you
know, no marks on your license.
You know you have to have takena national exam and that should
be enough for a state, anotherstate, to allow you to be able
to achieve licensure prettyeasily in their state, and

(09:37):
something like this.
This was through an associationthat represents licensing
boards across the nation.
Not all states agreed that thatwas enough for them, and so
ultimately this really becamethe issue was finding a way that
all states agreed that,whatever the requirement was,

(09:58):
that it was enough.
I'll just say it that way.
Some states believed that mystate has stricter regulations
than your state does, which theynever said face to face.
They never said that to eachother, but that's what it boiled
down to so one state believingthat they had stricter
regulations than another state,and so they really didn't trust
that someone coming from onestate was either prepared or had

(10:24):
the same trainings orqualifications, and there was
then never this kind of equalregulation from state to state.
So again, just a couple otherexamples of additional
professional associations reallycoming together so AASCB they

(10:44):
represent state counselingboards ACA creating their own,
aces, nbcc, omca just differentgroups coming together trying to
find some sort of commonalityand some sort of criteria that
made sense.
This was another attempt inCLEP 1.0 and CLEP 2.0, when 1.0

(11:07):
wasn't good enough.
This also failed, and so thenwe found I'll get to that in a
second ACA really has beeninvolved, I'd say at every step
along the way, and we'll see ina second where ACA then plays a
big part in this.

(11:29):
But as far as compacts, I'lltalk about compacts just really
quickly.
Most of us are really familiarwith how compacts work because
most of us have a driver'slicense.
So if you think about how adriver's license works, if you
got it in Texas, you areoperating your car in Texas but
you can drive across the stateline and you can keep driving

(11:53):
into Oklahoma and you can keepdriving into other states and
that license will still be validto continue to drive into these
other states and it'll berecognized in these other states
.
It's only when you move toanother state that they then
expect you to get a license thatrepresents your residence in

(12:15):
that other state, and so that'skind of how compacts work.
So we are pretty familiar withhow these operate as a nation.
We are so familiar with thesethat it's actually written into
the Constitution.
So there is a compact clause inour actual US Constitution
which we've heard a lot aboutour Constitution in the last

(12:38):
number of months.
But if this passes we wouldactually be following our
Constitution that has been ineffect since 1789.
So familiarity with a compactjust means that two or more
states agree to have a specificpolicy or regulation that

(12:59):
addresses some specific matteror issue, and for us that issue
or problem or challenge islicensure portability, so
finding a way for counselors tobe able to be mobile from state
to state.
This is just a quick example ofactually from North Dakota I

(13:19):
just lifted this off of one oftheir licensure applications.
That makes it sound pretty easythat if you want to have
reciprocity in North Dakota, youhave to be able to prove or
show that the state in whichyou're licensed as a
professional counselorsubstantially meets it's

(13:41):
substantially similar to therequirements in North Dakota,
and so you have to provide acopy of the laws or rules from
your state showing that, withthe first requirement being,
does your state currentlyrequire a 60-hour master's
degree in counseling, yes or no?
And if it was a yes then youcould continue, and if it was a

(14:01):
no then it would automaticallykick you out.
So that 60 hour requirementreally is now really the lever
right or the lever that opensthe door for most reciprocity or
portability questions for usand that really kind of became
the jumping off point, I wouldsay, for this whole process, for

(14:25):
the counseling compact.
So just really quickly,advantages and disadvantages of
compacts they're pretty easy toenforce because they're
standardized across all of thestates.
It's one bill or kind of onelaw that is the same.
The language can't be differentfrom one state to the next.

(14:48):
So everyone kind of thatuniformity that we're all
looking for, because everyoneyou know, as this portability
discussion happens, peoplealways say well, why don't we
just have a national, nationalregulations for professional
counselors?
And the reason why is becausewe're regulated by states.
But this provides thatuniformity that we're all

(15:10):
looking for, right.
So a compact provides the samerequirements, the same
expectations.
It also allows those states toto retain sovereignty that word
comes up a lot too and that justmeans that states retain the
power that they have.

(15:31):
No state wants to give up powerand so they're able to keep
that.
And it is then an alternativeto being told by the federal
government of what to do.
States really don't want to betold by federal government what
to do and really don't want tobe told by federal government
what to do, and again, over thelast couple of months, and our
whole political, whateverdiscussion states don't want to

(15:52):
be told by the federalgovernment what to do, and
compacts allow for this.
Disadvantages, though, is thatit takes a while for this to
happen.
Compacts typically it takes awhile for each of the states to
agree to this, so it's takendifferent professions different
lengths of time to achieve acompact status where there are

(16:16):
enough states participating.
Some people may not be asfamiliar with how it actually
works, even politicians orlegislators, even though in
their state, their state mayhave a lot of compacts, they may
not actually understand howthey work because some
legislators to them it's adisadvantage, because they
automatically assume that if weallow another state to regulate

(16:41):
our professional counselors orif we allow other counselors in,
we're giving up some of ourpower.
But that isn't actually how itworks.
And then they also assume thatbecause there's a commission and
I'll talk about the commissionin a minute they assume that
they are in fact giving up somesort of power to this other

(17:01):
entity, this other kind ofgovernmental body.
So again, it's always aboutpower.
It always boils down to power,money and power usually.
So once you help legislatorsunderstand these things, that
they're really not giving thingsup, they're actually retaining
power.
They're actually getting moneytoo.
That helps this process movealong.

(17:23):
So compacts, just reallyquickly.
Every state across the nationparticipates in some sort of
compact.
For our state, texas, hasanywhere between 21 to 30
different compacts that theyhave already approved.
So in our state it's nothingnew at all, already approved.

(17:47):
So in our state it's nothingnew at all, which is important
to know as we move forward andtry to get this compact approved
in our state.
So compacts are nothing new forTexas.
There are a number of otherprofessions that have already
achieved compact legislation,achieved compact legislation.

(18:09):
These are many of them.
Sipact is probably the closestto our profession.
Sipact was approved back in2016.
So under BHEC, then under theBHEC umbrella, one of the four
professions under the BHECumbrella already has a compact
kind of operating under the BHECumbrella, which is helpful for
our state as well.
They already BHEC, already kindof understands how this model

(18:33):
works Currently.
There are a number of otherprofessions, though, that have
also introduced compacts.
So two years ago, in 2023, inour last legislative session, is
when, I'd say, a number ofthese groups pretty quickly
realized that it was a good timefor them to introduce

(18:57):
legislation or try to get acompact created, and so right
now we are no longer the onlyprofession seeking to get a
compact approved.
So that can be a good and a badthing.
Good in that maybe legislatorsare better understanding
compacts, so there are more ofthem, kind of moving through

(19:18):
understanding at the same time.
I'm bad in that maybe ifsomebody isn't a fan of compacts
they may say, whoa like, hereare all these compacts coming at
us at the same time.
So that's just something toconsider.
I don't know what the what thesense is of some of the people

(19:39):
who are maybe going to make thisdecision, but I think it's an
important thing for us to knowis that there are some compacts
that are currently beingconsidered in this current
legislative session as well.
So marriage and familytherapists, social workers as
well.
But again, that might work toour advantage.
If all three of us get approvedat the same time and PSYPACT is

(20:02):
already approved, then thereare four of our mental health
boards that all might havecompacts.
So who knows?
I've actually not at allchecked the status of those.
So if that's going to be one ofyour questions.
I'll just kind of head you offnow.
I have not looked to see at allwhat the status might be of the
marriage and family compact orsocial work, so talk a little

(20:27):
bit about how it was developed.
The process itself is a prettylengthy process, and so the
National Council for InterstateCompacts is a national entity.
They're not political, sothey're an apolitical or

(20:48):
bipartisan, however you'd liketo say it entity that it is
actually their job to work onCompacts.
That's what they do.
Pretty.
It looks like a well-oiledmachine, I'll say like coming
into the process it looked likeit was like they had it down,

(21:08):
pat, right, they knew exactlyhow these things needed to go,
which is great.
It's just more of the peoplepart is the problem like
actually getting people to agreeto these things.
But this is the actual process.
It's a three-phase process ofhow they break it up, and so
I'll kind of talk through eachof these really quickly and tell
you a little bit about themfrom state officials,

(21:47):
stakeholders, issue experts whocame in with the content
knowledge and process knowledgeto be able to come in to decide
what needed to go into thecompact.
So what were the issues aroundour profession?
What were some of the specificregulatory issues that each of
the states wanted to consider orneeded to consider, so that we
were able to look at theimportant pieces kind of the big

(22:10):
picture pieces and also drilldown into the smaller pieces
that we had to make sure werepresent across that.
That then would move off into adrafting team.
So these were individuals whoworked for NCIC and also lawyers
, so people who, if you'velooked at a bill or a law

(22:32):
recently, very legalese, legalkind of language, these were the
people who drafted the languagearound our content.
So they came up with all ofthat information and then they
also worked with us, theadvisory group, as part of the
stakeholder groups, to receivecomment or kind of public

(22:55):
comment about the bill and thenthey worked to take that public
comment to create the finalproduct.
So really quickly, just aboutthis phase one piece.
Like I mentioned, americanCounseling Association had been
involved in all of, I'd say,every single one of those
previous portability attempts,and ACA is actually who got this

(23:20):
process started.
So they were actually in ameeting with a representative
from Council of StateGovernments and they went to
Council of State Governments andsaid we'd like to talk to you
about what it would take tostart this counseling compact.
In the end, it takes money justagain to boil it down.

(23:43):
So ACA since 2018 is when thisinitially started.
It was at that time that theGoverning Council of the
American Counseling Associationvoted to agree to the largest
ever expenditure that they'veever agreed to, and at that time
it was a million dollars.
So up to or up through fiscalyear 26, aca will have put $1.6

(24:11):
million toward the counselingcompact, which is a huge amount
of money for a professionalassociation.
Without this, we would not havethe compact at all, and so so
ACA has been part of thisprocess all along, kind of

(24:31):
moving this forward Reallyquickly, part of this advisory
group, like I mentioned, it wasa really it was a great process
to be part of.
So we had a full two-day meetingin DC and, as part of the group
, my interest was, you know,being more of the counselor,

(24:52):
educator, but also theresearcher who had information
on, like all 50 states.
But there were people there whowere the executive directors of
different licensing boards.
There were board attorneys whorepresented licensing boards.
We also had board chairs, boardmembers.
There were also people who werelegislators.

(25:14):
We had a couple of actuallegislators from a couple of
states, one of whom actually wasa counselor and he was also
then a legislator in his state,which is very, very rare, but
was very interesting to hear hisperspective.
We had a couple of licenseeswho they themselves had gone
through the portability processa couple of times, and then the

(25:37):
Department of Defenserepresentative, and that was
also very important because thatperson wielded a lot of power,
because anything the Departmentof Defense gets involved in kind
ofed a lot of power, becauseanything the Department of
Defense gets involved in kind ofopens a lot of doors.
So this was really the group ofpeople who came together again
to bring the content piecetogether.

(25:58):
There were quite a fewstakeholder meetings across many
states.
So 2019, this was right beforeCOVID we got to meet in person.
It was great.
We were looking forward toactually having a lot of
in-person meetings.
After this Never happened againbecause of COVID, all of the

(26:20):
stakeholder meetings allhappened virtually, which
actually ended up being, I think, a better thing, because more
people were actually able toparticipate and give a lot of
feedback as well.
But this was the whole processand then the compact was
finalized December of 2020.
So a pretty quick processoverall, but that's the initial

(26:46):
part of when that happened.
So, just to give you a quickpicture of just one of the
discussion points that we had,um was what to call it, what to
like language to use in thecompact and this is still a
sticking point for many peopleacross the nation Um, why we
used licensed professionalcounselor in the compact, why we

(27:08):
said licensed professionalcounselor and not something else
, and so part of information Ihad was the fact that, if you
look across the nation, we callourselves a lot of different
things.
So these are all of the titlesthat we call ourselves across
the nation, depending on whatstate you live in.

(27:30):
We're all professionalcounselors, but we could be
called a licensed clinicalprofessional counselor, or I
might be called a licensedclinical mental health counselor
, or a licensed professionalcounselor, mental health
services provider, or, in Texas,a licensed professional
counselor, but in Texas, alicensed professional counselor
mental health services provider,or, in Texas, a licensed
professional counselor, but inTexas, a licensed professional
counselor is the highest levelof licensure right, full,

(27:53):
independent licensure.
In another state, though, anLPC actually means somebody
who's under supervision orsomebody who isn't fully
licensed.
So that's how complicated we'vemade this for ourselves, and
that's the problematic piece.
So, when you boil down thenumbers, though this was part of
the information I provided wasthat this is how many states,

(28:17):
though, use LPC as the fullhighest level of licensure.
So, when you look at numberslike this, you can't help but
say, well, if at least half ofthe states use LPC as the title
that they call themselves, thenthat is why LPC licensed

(28:41):
professional counselor was usedin the bill.
So there are still some peoplenot happy with that.
We still continue, even pastthis.
You see some changes, which isagain whole advocacy discussion,
why it's important to still beaware of what happens, or what
changes In 2020,.
North Carolina used to be astate that called their

(29:02):
licensees professionalcounselors.
They actually changed theirprofessional counselors.
They actually changed theirwhole title.
They now are called licensedclinical mental health
counselors in North Carolina, sothey're no longer called
licensed professional counselors.
So, anyway, still wasn't enoughto change the title, but yeah.
Phase two, then, was NCICputting together a resource kit,

(29:27):
making sure that there was aninternet site that people could
go to to get that information,provide information to
legislators, build state supportto be able to get to kind of
level one states that would bemore likely to pass this
legislation and really get thisbill passed and rolling really.

(29:47):
And so they were able toidentify in that 2021
legislative session some Tier 1states that they felt were more
likely to pass this legislation,either because of their
interest or support for compactsor their expressed interest in

(30:11):
compacts based on those previouskind of town halls that were
held.
So these were some of the tierone states where more of the
energy went to and a lot of theinformation that was made public
was actually quite helpful inproviding information to these

(30:32):
and other states in moving itforward.
Phase three then was once therewere enough states 10 states
were needed for this thresholdto be met, for a commission to
be created and then kind of anentity and governmental entity
and then actually the compactmoving into operation.

(30:53):
That is phase three and that'sactually where we are today.
So, like I said, 10 states wereneeded to meet this threshold
the compact commission.
So people who are overseeingthe compact then would start to
meet.
They would create their ownrules, bylaws, kind of task

(31:13):
forces, their own committees,rules committees, things like
that, and then they would haveto select a data management
system and then oversee thatmanagement system and that's
where we are system, and thenoversee that management system,
and that's where we are.
So what goes into, or what wentinto, the compact?
The model that was used was amutual recognition model, which

(31:36):
ensured that states that joinedby joining the compact or their
state passing legislation.
It meant that theyautomatically agreed to accept
licenses from other states.
So no more of this businesslike I described earlier about.
Well, our state requires alittle bit more than your state

(31:57):
does, so your licensee wouldhave to do an extra class here
or would have to do an extra ofthis, or they're deficient in
whatever this meant.
If you're joining the compact,you are also agreeing to take
people from these other statesthat have also joined the
compact.
So, just straight, mutualrecognition is what this meant,

(32:20):
and that's what these stateshave agreed to do, and that's
what these states have agreed todo.
So there are 15 sections in thecompact where all of this
information is divided out into.
I've pulled out what I think ismost interesting, perhaps, or
maybe more relevant for us toknow or think about.

(32:42):
You can read into all the rest.
It's on their website.
But I just kind of pulled outthe stuff that I think people
would want to know and divide itup into chunks too, to make it
a little more manageable.
But the actual purpose of thecompact ultimately is what we've
been talking about is toultimately help counselors, is

(33:08):
to ultimately help counselorsone be portable, but also really
to facilitate their practice,to increase the public's access
to counseling, because that'show this is seen is that once
counselors are able to have alicense or a privilege to
practice in these other states,that that's going to increase
clients' access to thosecounselors.
So that's kind of the ultimatepurpose if we think about it,

(33:30):
and the ways that that will beachieved is through these
different objectives.
So one of the things that theyreally wanted to stress in this
creation of the compact was thatthere would not be a point at
which there would be a lesseningof any of the regulations

(34:02):
expectation that there would bemaybe a little higher
expectation than maybe what theyhad in their own state, but
ultimately it was still aprotection of the public's
health and safety.
I would say that's probably oneof the more important things to
stress.
So just because a client wasseeing a counselor from, I'll
just say, nebraska, justgrasping at a state, did not

(34:23):
mean that your client was goingto be any less safe than seeing
a counselor from your own state,right?
So I would say that's one ofthe more important pieces
throughout this whole compact.
But part of the other piece I'dmentioned the DOD earlier
Department of Defense that wasanother really important piece

(34:47):
that came through was that thepurpose of the compact also
served to support active dutymilitary personnel.
Every single licensing bodythat was not only part of the
advisory group, but I'd sayprobably every group with AASCB,
every state counseling boardhas professional counselors who

(35:12):
are active duty militarypersonnel who are forced to move
.
They have no choice, right.
So they have a very difficulttime having to pick up getting
licensed in a new state andsometimes having a really
difficult time getting that done.
This was also one of thehighlights of this compact that
was stressed, and part of thatwas also the hope then that

(35:36):
again we're talking tolegislators here, right, they
like to support military.
Just to be very blunt and veryhonest, and this was also a hope
that that would be somethingthat they would recognize as
well.
That was a way to help supportmilitary personnel.
There are a couple of otherthings that are present in some
other areas, again providingkind of a uniform requirements.

(35:59):
Telehealth is possible.
There's an exchange ofinformation.
In case of investigations, eachstate has the authority to hold
their own LPCs accountable, sothey're not, again, they're not
giving up any kind of authorityat all, and it just becomes a

(36:19):
long-term solution to theproblem that we have of
portability.
So that, again, purpose of thecompact, this whole section.
There are a lot of definitionshere and I'm not even going to
go through all of these, but itwas important to define what
some of the keywords were thatwere used throughout the compact

(36:39):
, because, again, this bill isgoing to legislators who are not
counselors, they don't know thework that we do, and so to
define these definitions thatare being used became really
important.
But it's also important for us,if we become part of this, to
understand what these thingsmean as well, but the first one

(37:03):
being adverse action.
So I think this part becameimportant so that we knew that
this was really being takenseriously, that the people who
were going to be eligible toparticipate everyone involved in
this process was going to makesure that licensees with who did

(37:23):
have disciplinary action werenot going to be able to
participate.
So this just speaks to someonewho had an encumbrance or
disciplinary action on theirlicense not being able to
participate.
Yeah, kate, did you have your?

Speaker 1 (37:37):
Yeah, I have a question.
So, first of all, the mutualrecognition.
That speaks to something that Iactually misspoke about in an
earlier presentation.
I did because I graduated froma 48 hour program actually 36.
And then I took 12 hours so Ican get up to the 48.
So and I never took an NCE Lotsof questions about, oh my gosh,

(38:00):
well, what about us then?
But what?
I hear you, I'll get to that ina second, but is that part?
I hear you say I'll get to thatin a second, but is that part
of the mutual recognition?
I'll get to that in a second,okay, okay.
Second thing Okay, you maycover this too, but if you in
the previous slide you saidaccountable to state laws, but

(38:21):
then states hold their ownlicensees accountable, yeah, so
what goes through my mind isI've got to learn everybody's
rules.
So that's the other thing,correct.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
Yeah, yeah, and I'll get to that one in a second too.
Yeah, absolutely yeah, and thoseare important things to know.
Then, right, if I'm going tomake this decision, yes, am I
going to have to know all of therules?
Absolutely yeah.
All of these other ones you canread through.
I would say home state isprobably the other important
term, because that actually isone of the most important pieces

(38:49):
.
For you to be part of thecompact, your home state has to
be part of the compact.
So home state basically justmeans where you live, so where
you reside, or, as they weredescribing it as we went through
this process, where the IRSfinds you, so where you claim

(39:10):
residence.
That is your home state, andthat then triggers a couple of
other things.
I'll have a little infographicin a second that will show you
that LPC I talked about earlier,why that was important.
A member state is just any otherstate that is part of the
compact, a remote state, verysimilar.

(39:30):
It's a state you don't live inbut you're participating in and
you have a privilege to practicethere.
So any state that you don'thold a home state license in,
you have a privilege to practicein.
That state you don't hold ahome state license in, you have
a privilege to practice in thatstate.
And telehealth, again, theydefine that as well for someone
who may not understand.
But so this is the slide thenthat will answer what Kate was

(39:59):
asking about.
This part was, I'd say, themost important part.
So for a state to participatein the compact, the state must
currently meet these criteria.
So the state number two has torequire that their licensees
pass a nationally recognizedexam.
So right now the state has torequire that their licensees

(40:23):
pass an exam.
In this law nowhere will youfind what that exam is.
It doesn't say NCE, it doesn'tsay NCMHCE, it doesn't say KCREP
, it doesn't.
There was not that level ofspecificity put in there because
, should that ever change, ifthis passes as a law, every one

(40:46):
of those states would have to goback in and change that law.
Nobody wants to do that One.
It's hard enough to get a lawpassed.
You don't ever want to have togo back and change a little tiny
piece of a law.
So it just says whatever thatexam is, that's approved by the
commission.
So the commission we'll talkabout in a second they're going

(41:07):
to name what those exams are orcould be, but in the law, in the
bill, it doesn't.
It's not named.
But any state that wants toparticipate, they have to, in
their state, require that theirlicensees pass an exam, each
state.
Currently they have to requirethat their licensees have a

(41:29):
60-hour master's degree incounseling and that 60-hour
degree has to have thesespecific academic content areas.
So right now that state has torequire this.
Number four each state has torequire that their licensees
complete a supervisedpostgraduate experience Doesn't

(41:53):
name how many hours, again, forthe same reasons we mentioned
earlier.
And number five each state hasto have a mechanism where they
can receive and investigatecomplaints.
So these are the requirementsrequired for each state to
participate.

(42:14):
So this little box that poppedup, these requirements apply to
the state, they don't apply toyou.
So how I told someone once andI was really joking I said it's
not about you, it isn't aboutyou, it's about the state.

(42:37):
So each one of theserequirements is about the state.
We're just talking about 50states and some jurisdictions.
That's who we're talking abouthere.
We're not talking about thehundreds of thousands of
licensees.
Imagine that, right.
That's the part nobody wants toimagine.

(42:58):
It's not individuals that haveto meet requirements, it's the
state meeting requirements.
So if our state becomes part ofthe compact, everybody in the
state becomes part of, or couldpotentially be part of this.
The state does not go in andpick and choose who in the state
becomes part of.

(43:19):
The whole state is part of, nomatter what the requirement was
before, whether, like Katementioned a 48-hour degree, I
took the Texas exam.
Some of you may not have evenheard of that.
There was a Texas exam, right,that is now the NCE, so it
doesn't matter at all.

(43:39):
So they will not go in and ourstate doesn't want to.
I wouldn't want to do that,nobody wants to do that.
So it's the state, it's notpeople.
The state has to meet theserequirements.
So if there is a state thatdoesn't require some of these
things, that state cannot bepart of the compact, which means

(44:01):
that state would then have totake their own steps to try to
get themselves up to whateverthese requirements are if they
want to be part of the compact.
We meet all of the requirements.
I will just answer that now.
Do we?
Yes, absolutely.
That was one of the things Imean.
I was the only person fromTexas there, so was I going to

(44:22):
make sure that whatever we weretalking about met our state
Absolutely For sure?
There was not going to beanything extra that we didn't
have?
We, thankfully, have alreadymoved in that direction long ago
.
We didn't used to, but we'vemoved in that direction.
Our licensing board has donethat.
Our licensing board has donethat.

(44:46):
So the state participating alsohas to agree to have some sort
of mechanism where there'sfingerprinting, fbi background
checks.
We now have that.
That's happened over the lastcouple of years in our state and
that might've even beenpreemptively.
Like who knows if this wholecompact thing moved that along
more quickly for our state.
This whole compact thing movethat along more quickly for our
state.
It says that states can charge afee for people to have this

(45:07):
privilege.
So you know states aren't goingto miss out on money.
They're actually going to beable to get some money for this
whole process and again, eachstate will recognize the license
of other states as well.
So the privilege to practice sothe way that this works you
have to have a home statelicense and it has to be a full

(45:28):
license.
So associates are not part ofthis process.
This is full LPCs are the onlypeople who would be part of this
process.
So full LPC and then you wouldbe able to apply for the
privilege to practice in theseother remote states if you
choose to and however manystates you choose to apply to.

(45:55):
Again, if you choose to.
And so in this infographic, ifyou kind of look at it in this
way, kind of like in this arrow,again, you have to have the
home state license, you'retaking your own jurisprudence
exam, but that jurisprudenceexam applies to every other
state.
So any other state that you'regoing to be connected to you

(46:17):
will have to take thejurisprudence exam of any other
state that you're applying to tohave the privilege to practice
in that state, because we arerequired to follow the rules and
regulations of any other statethat we have the privilege to
practice in.
So if one state like I'll justuse the example of projective

(46:39):
testing, so like in Texas, wecan't use projective testing,
but if in the state of Florida,florida says you can, when
you're practicing with a Floridaclient and you have a privilege
to practice, you could useprojective measures and don't
quote me on that because I'm not, I don't know what Florida says
about that but you could dothat with a Florida client.

(46:59):
But the minute your fiveo'clock Texas client comes on
with you, you cannot do that.
Right, but you need to know thedifference in those regulations
.
But again, having a home statelicense and then the privilege
to practice in these otherstates, you can still and this
is the other difference in thisin the bill it does still speak

(47:24):
to the fact that if you want toapply to these other states and
have a single license with theseother states, you can still do
that.
You don't have to do theprivilege to practice but it's
cheaper.
But you can still do thatseparately if you want.
So if you want to have a fulllicense in the state of Georgia,

(47:46):
you can still apply to Georgiaand have a full license in
Georgia and not just a privilegeto practice.
So, regarding this privilege topractice, like I mentioned, this
is tied to your social securitynumber.
I mentioned, this is tied toyour social security number if

(48:07):
you don't have an NPI.
But if you have an NPI, that'skind of the tracker for all of
this process.
Again, no encumbrances on yourlicense.
And it says for at least thetwo years prior to you applying,
you have to pay the fees, youhave to do the CEUs for your
home state.
You do not have to follow theCEU requirements or provide CEUs

(48:29):
to these other states.
But there's a data bank that'sbeing created where you'll
upload your CEUs for your homestate and so these other states
will see that you're completingthem anyway.
But jurisprudence exams have tobe completed for these other
states.
And if, let's say, I have myhome state license and something

(48:58):
happens in my home state and Ilose my license to practice in
my state, then my privileges topractice in these other let's
say, four states those go awayIn.
Maybe reverse, if somethinghappens in, let's say, I had a
privilege to practice in NewJersey, something happened in
New Jersey and New Jersey tookaway my privilege to practice.
It wouldn't automatically takeaway everything else, but New

(49:22):
Jersey would report to my homestate to let them know what was
going on and then my home statewould investigate as well to see
if that would trigger somethingelse happening.
So New Jersey cannot take awaymy home state license, and my
home state doesn't necessarilytake away these others.
But if I don't have a homestate license anymore, that's

(49:45):
what takes away the rest of theprivileges to practice.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
And Kathy, we've got a question.
I think it's kind of it's whatyou're speaking to.
Is it OK if I interject?
Yeah, absolutely, so.
Each state retains authority toregulate the practice within
their borders or in the questionis, or will this be shared, and
you're kind of explaining thatto us?
So every there, every state hasits own rules.

(50:10):
Yes, um, public healthprotection is important, so it
is.
Is it maintained because eachstate is to adhere to the laws
of the state where the clientresides?
Will this mean that there's acomplaint or issue?
All states share responsibilityfor the client?
I guess it's in.
Like Lenika, if you want tounmute and say this better than

(50:32):
I am, I want to make sure thatI'm saying this correctly, it
might be answered in this one.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
So I moved ahead to section eight, because this
section speaks to like theadverse action piece and how
it's handled and so, like itsays, only your home state can
take action against your homestate.
They can't take action againstany other.
But these states theexpectation is that there will
be they can initiate jointinvestigations and so if one

(51:01):
state finds that you know you'redoing something with your
client in Illinois and this isnot sitting well with Illinois
as a privilege to practice state, then they probably will
contact your home state and say,hey, this is what we are
finding here.
Let's put these two together.
And you're Texas, you guys can,you know, do whatever you're

(51:25):
going to do with yours, but thisis what we're finding and this
is the action we're taking.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
Okay, and that's similar to what happens now, if
I choose to practice acrossstate lines and my client, you
know, is in Oklahoma.
Right, it's, it's reallyOklahoma protects Oklahoma,
right, right, and that's reallyTexas isn't going to go
investigate something, no, right?

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Right.
But this is saying if theyagree to the compact, they're
agreeing that they may initiatejoint investigations, but it
says and must shareinvestigative materials.
So it's saying that each statedoes not have to start from
scratch in doing theirinvestigations over and over.
Starting from scratch, it'sagain a shared resource kind of

(52:13):
belief and attempt.
But all states have to reportadverse action into this
database, so everyone still hasto report that information so
that all states have access tothat information.
It's almost like it's going tobecome that national
practitioner database that wehave right that everyone's

(52:35):
supposed to be reporting out to,that we get that information
from.
This now is going to bereported into this database.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
Okay, and we have another question Can we take it
or do you need to keep?

Speaker 2 (52:45):
going Sure yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Yeah, all right, silky, I see you with your hand
raised.

Speaker 4 (52:49):
Yes, thank you, but you may just be getting to this
because you started to skipahead and I was like, oh, I need
to ask a question and that wason the slide before this.
I think I just wanted to nolike section four maybe.
Okay.
Yes, the stuff in red.
Because for those of us who arecurrently licensed in multiple

(53:09):
states, we still have to meetthe CEU requirements of all the
states.
But this is saying we only inthe PAC, you only meet your home
state's requirements.
Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (53:21):
And that reason is probably because you hold a
license in that other state.
Right, you hold a full licensein this other state, yeah, which
is different, because youapplied to that state and you're
holding the full license inthat state.
So, as a full license holder,the expectation is that you meet

(53:41):
all of the requirements forthat full license.
This is just the privilege topractice.
Got it, thank you.
Yeah, absolutely, and that's, Ithink, an important distinction,
because then these other statesright, all these other member
states are relying on the homestate to be the monitor of your

(54:02):
continuing education, right?
So, ensuring that your homestate is keeping track of, or
monitoring, well, that you arereceiving the continuing
education that that state saysyou're going to receive, but,
yes, as a full license holder,that's exactly why you have to
get their continuing education.

(54:24):
Yeah, and they anticipate thatthis is going to make it a lot
easier.
So when you move to anotherstate then they're able just to

(54:47):
pull information from thedatabase and make your new
license a lot easier to get, andthen your previous home state
becomes a privilege to practice.
So this, hopefully, will helppeople get their new license in
their new state that much faster.
Active duty military personnel,like I mentioned, as long as
their spouse or themselves, aslong as they're active duty,

(55:09):
this will make it easier forthem.
Telehealth was written in aswell, specifically stating that,
yes, of course it makes sense,but it was written in that
telehealth can be used.
Has to be in there, yes, butthis question came up in the

(55:30):
last legislative session becauseand I think this is going to be
a fair question because this isactually going to perhaps bring
up new concerns.
I think you know there arealready some concerns with
BetterHelp and you know some ofthese other large entities that
you know.
Hey, anyone can receivecounseling and text and whatever

(55:54):
all of the above.
This is going to mean thattelehealth is going to be
happening at a greater rate andwho is going to be overseeing
this and what body is going totry to benefit financially.
Again, just being very honest,where's the money going to be
going?
And that was a concern thatsomeone in our state, one of our

(56:16):
legislators, brought up, andthat's a business issue that
someone's going to need tofollow.
But anyway, different question,so adverse actions the
commission then, once thecommission was created, just
spells out who's on thecommission, what they do.
It's really each of thelicensing boards.

(56:40):
There's somebody from thelicensing board that is on the
commission.
So, again, that retention ofpower, that's how they retain
the power, because they have alicensing board representative
that is on the commission that'soverseeing how these
regulations are happening.
So, all of these parts, this iswhere you get into a lot of the

(57:14):
language more legally.
But the data system, this parthas maybe taken a little bit
longer because this has actuallybeen created from scratch.
There wasn't an actual datasystem that existed already, and
so this is where ACA has morerecently put more of their money
toward, put more of their moneytoward.
I will also share and say so.
Nbcc has recently also put somemoney toward the database for
the creation of, and thisdatabase then is also going to
be shared with the occupationaltherapy compact and the

(57:38):
audiology speech hearing compactas well.
So hopefully that will help itto move along.
But once that is created, whatthey're anticipating is that
later, either at the end of thesummer or beginning of the fall,
is when these privileges topractice will actually be issued

(57:59):
or start to be issued, and whatthey're looking at is about $30
for the privileges to practice.
The cost of those is what thecost is.
Oh sorry, there we go.
Date of implementation.
Well, the date ofimplementation was a little bit
different, but anyway, I'm goingto skip through these for a
second.
So there's a whole website andonce there were enough states

(58:23):
and it was 10 states this entitybecame a gov.
It used to be a org.
It became now kind of agovernmental agency or entity.
So you can find all of thisinformation or a lot of
information on thecounselingcompactgov.
You can find toolkitinformation.
They have a legislative summitso you can watch some of the

(58:45):
YouTube videos about the compactitself and how they operate.
You can also watch some oftheir or attend their commission
hearings.
Those are open public meetingsalso, but they still have some
FAQs up.
So, really quickly, just to showyou how quickly this happened,

(59:06):
this is a part that I think ismost interesting.
It took 30 years for our nation, for every single state, to
achieve licensure.
30 years.
It took.
It took three and a half yearsto get to the point.
I'll show you in a second.
But February of 21, there werethree states that really quickly

(59:27):
proposed legislation Georgia,maryland and Nebraska February
of 21.
By November of 21, georgia andMaryland had already passed it.
And then there were four morestates that had proposed and
everyone was very optimisticthat they would meet that
10-state threshold by July of2022.

(59:50):
That was the date they said byJuly of 22,.
For sure, we'll have 10 states.
This is how quickly thathappened.
It was April of 22 that 10states had passed this
legislation and by August of 22,there were 17 states that had

(01:00:11):
passed legislation.
So that quickly.
That's how many states realizedthat.
Again, this portability issue,and so many of them this is the
part that is always interestingto me is how many of them are
next to each other.
Right?
This is what we always thought.
Is that about portability?
Is that the states that werenext to each other were the ones

(01:00:32):
that were most likely toalready have reciprocity
agreements or these ease ofportability kind of agreements
in place, and that wasn't alwaysthe case.
But so many of them are rightnext to each other, right Again,
which is great, quite helpful.
But this is today.
So there are now 38 states thathave passed the counseling

(01:00:57):
compact, which means once that10 was hit, this became real.
So there is a counselingcommission that is in place.
They have a board of directors.
There are ex officio members aswell from ACA, umca, a couple
of other entities that also siton the board, non-voting members

(01:01:20):
that are overseeing this wholeprocess moving forward.
But there are 38 states rightnow that are part of the process
.
The light blue are the statesthat currently have legislation
filed to perhaps be part of thecompact moving forward, with
Texas being one of them.

(01:01:42):
So I'll skip over this for asecond.
You can kind of read through it.
But the commission very wellstructured, with a lot of
oversight, a lot of differentcommittees.
They have their own meetings.
Like I said, you can watchthese, so you can go to and
click on when they have theirmeetings and you can attend.
They're on Zoom.
You can actually listen in ontheir meetings.

(01:02:04):
But as far as achievingportability, this is a question
that I always see.
I've been off Facebook forabout a year now, but I go in
specifically to look for thingssometimes and I always go into
my counseling groups that Ibelong to and one thing that I
always see is that peopleinevitably say, like, why isn't

(01:02:25):
our licensing board, you know,helping us to get the compact
One?
Licensing boards can't help youto do this.
Licensing boards are actuallynot supposed to support, speak
to or do anything aboutlegislation and I'm finding
myself trying to actually lowermy voice.
Right, no one's in my officewith me but they're not supposed

(01:02:47):
to, right, they are notsupposed to support, endorse,
they're not supposed to sayanything about legislation.
It is not in their purview,they are not supposed to do it.
Our licensing board, twice nowhave put out resolutions.
They have in print, put out intheir public meetings,

(01:03:11):
resolutions saying we are forthis right can say that our
licensing board is notsupportive of this.
They have gone out of their wayto show their support, quite
supportive of this happening.
They are in no way against ithappening.

(01:03:33):
It is not up to the licensingboard, it is up to our elected
officials.
So, elected officials.
So right now in our state therewas a House bill, is a House
bill 1537.
This is just a screenshot.
If you go to Texas legislatureonline, this is the screenshot

(01:03:57):
just today.
That shows you exactly where itstands.
But it was filed in December of2024, right.
So House Bill was filed.
It was referred to the HumanServices Committee in March 12th
of this year with the hope thatthe Human Services Committee
would hear it in their committeeand then move it through the

(01:04:21):
House and get it voted on.
Hear it in their committee andthen move it through the House
and get it voted on.
If you've been watching what'sbeen happening in our state,
they've been derailed a bit.
A lot of their time has beentaken up by school vouchers and
now they're having to catch upon everything else.
I will just say that.
So now it's catch-up time.

(01:04:44):
I was out of state yesterdaywith ACA actually, so I've
actually never not gone to TCAadvocacy days and that was
yesterday.
So I don't know what happenedyesterday.
I don't know what the responsewas yesterday, but I do know

(01:05:05):
from the TCA blasts that theywere encouraging people to
contact the Human ServicesCommittee to get it heard in the
Human Services Committee sothat they can get it out of the
committee and voted on in theHouse, on in the House.
So two years ago I testifiedbefore.
It wasn't this committee, itwas a different one, but I

(01:05:26):
testified before this committeeor a committee.
It went into the House and itgot voted on and it moves
through right, very littleopposition and then it got held
up in the Senate.
So right now there is an exactbill again.
The language can't be anydifferent, but in the Senate
there's a Senate, bill 498 thatwas filed.
That one was filed in Novemberof 24.

(01:05:51):
That one is sitting in theBusiness and Commerce Committee,
which that's a good thing.
It didn't go back to the one itgot caught up in last year or
two years ago, so but it's stillsitting in that committee right
now and hasn't been heard yetin that committee either.
It needs to be heard in thatcommittee, voted on in that
committee and then moved intothe Senate so that it can be

(01:06:14):
moved on again, hopefullyfavorably.
It was voted on favorably lasttime.
That's the hope that in theHouse, but it never made it to
the Senate.
There have been different thingsthat have been said.
What happened last time andagain, just being very
transparent, what happened twoyears ago was the person that
headed that committee said Iwill not bring this legislation

(01:06:39):
or any other forward in mycommittee until somebody else in
this other committee moves mybill forward.
And that's what they did.
They held up all of the otherlegislation until theirs got
moved and the compact never gotmoved forward, and then end of
legislation two years ago.
So that's how the counselingcompact was basically dead on

(01:07:01):
the vine two years ago.
But this is where we sit today,so right now it hasn't moved
forward into committees.
The session ends June 2nd, so wehave a handful of weeks left
for this to happen.
If it does not happen by June2nd, or if we have extra weeks

(01:07:26):
or whatever might happen I don'tthis is not on the governor's
radar as a special session kindof thing, but uh, if it doesn't
happen this year, we will besitting watching those 38 states
plus any other states thatstart to participate.
We'll be watching them for thenext two years seeing how this

(01:07:47):
works, which might also be agood thing, see how it works out
.
But we then will not be able tobe part of this until we
introduce it again two yearsfrom now, in 2027, when our
legislative body meets again,and then reintroduce this exact
same legislation, because itcan't be any different and then

(01:08:09):
try again in 2027 to be part ofthe compact.
So, tca if you're a member, theysend out their updates.
You can go to their publicpolicy page as well.
You can click link their publicpolicy page as well.
It can.
You can click uh, link to someinformation.
You can go to the ACA webpagetoo if you want more information
about the compact itself.

(01:08:29):
It won't necessarily give youTexas information, but you can
link to information about thecompact um itself.
So, um, yeah.
So that's my email If you havequestions, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
Such wonderful information.
Thank you so much.
And we do have questions.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
I'm going to take this down, unless someone wanted
me to click back on something.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
I'm going to back up a little bit.
Lenika, I wanted to check backwith you and make sure I had
your question answered.
Did you feel like that wasanswered?
Would you like to unmute?

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
Oh no, I unmuted it and that was answered.
It was answered.
Thank you so much, I appreciateit.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
And then, you know, I was watching Facebook as I do
today, and someone posted in oneof the groups that since
neither compact has or it hasn'tleft the House or the Senate,
it's not, is it no longereligible, and was that something

(01:09:39):
that I don't know what?

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
the cutoff.
I think there might be cutoffdates or something, I don't know
what.
That is A colleague of mine.
She and I normally we actuallyhave been going to the
legislative things together,harry Glossoff.
We both were actually at ACA.
She's the current ACA treasurer.
We were at a budget meeting atACA and so we were both

(01:10:01):
traveling together, treasurer,we were at a budget meeting at
ACA and so we were bothtraveling together, and so she
emailed TCA, uh, the legislativeNOAA, I don't remember his last
name.
She emailed him but didn't geta response.
But, um, I think there's somesort of cutoff dates or
something.
But I just know that thesession itself ends June 2nd.
Um, so again, like, like I said, I would have gone yesterday.

(01:10:24):
So hopefully they send out ablast of some sort, because
hopefully there is still time tomove these through committees
and then get them voted on.
There really was not a lot ofopposition when I testified last
year.
The question from the committeeitself was about the telehealth
piece, about, like you know,who's going to oversee these.

(01:10:45):
You know these companies thatare going to jump on the
telehealth piece, and and Ibasically said you know that is
a business question that therewould need to be some sort of
oversight that is completelyoutside the purview of anything
counseling related.
And the only other questionthat, as I went with some TCA

(01:11:10):
representatives from twodifferent legislators offices
outside of the advocacy days, Idid have somebody ask me about
this, and actually this might bea question because of our
current political climate, but Ihad somebody ask me about this.
They asked me about the contentarea of the master's degree,

(01:11:34):
and so they asked me about B,the social and cultural
diversity part, and my answerwas that this has always been
part of our profession, as it ispart of all the mental health
professions, and I'll just sharewith you what I tell everybody
that I did even before thisperson asked that question, I

(01:11:56):
did a quick look around thatperson's office to get a flavor
of who that person was, and so Ithen gave him a quick example
of how he fit into that socialand cultural diversity content
area, and so I asked him if hewould want a counselor who then
understood his social andcultural diverse categories or,

(01:12:23):
you know, needs as a potentialclient, and if he would want
someone competent in those areas.
That was my answer.
Part of the answer.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
What was his answer?
What did he say?

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
You could tell the answer was yes, but that wasn't
the point of his question.
You could tell the answer wasyes, but that wasn't the point
of his question.
Yeah, so it's a little hard forsomeone to say yes when they're
trying to make a differentpoint.
Right, but I'm glad.
But I did not answer his otherquestion.
I answered how he was relevantand how, again, how he fit into

(01:13:00):
diversity and yes, but anyway, II again don't know if that has
come up, but given our currentclimate, again there are these
little buzzwords that everyoneis catching, but this has always
been.

Speaker 1 (01:13:18):
No, this is good.
So let me back up a little bit.
Michelle wanted to know aboutthe $30 cost.
That was a $30 cost per yearand per state.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
Yeah, so just yesterday in the meeting I was
in.
So Lynn Lindy is the.
She's one of the head directorsover at ACA and she's actually
the representative who she'sdone like all of the.
She was actually a TCA keynotelast year.
She's done like all of the.

(01:13:52):
She was actually a TCA keynotelast year.
But she is the one who mentionedthat in the recent commission
meeting that they had agreed onthe $30 cost.
So you, if you become part ofthe compact, or our state does,
then you would be paying to thecommission that $30 fee to have
a privilege to practice inwhatever state you're selecting.
So that would be for that onestate.
So $30 for a privilege topractice in North Carolina, $30
for a privilege to practice inOhio, $30 for Illinois and that

(01:14:17):
would be.
She didn't say annually, but Idon't know.
I'm not absolutely sure, butthe expiration dates are tied to
your home state license.
Ours is by is every two years,but I don't think all states are
every two years.
So I can ask, I can email herand find out.
That's a good question.

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):
And then Michelle commented 498.
I'm assuming that's the Senatebill number.

Speaker 2 (01:14:54):
Yes, Senate Bill 498 and House Bill 1537.
They're actually linked to eachother, so if you go to one you
can see the link to the otherone on that same page.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
So Kara wants to know if we are licensed in another
state.
That is part of the compact.
Could we potentially still join, or is it home license?

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
only it is home based .
Yeah, it is home state.
So, like Silky asked earlierabout, like having to do
continuing ed in these otherstate, in another state where
you're licensed, it has to beyour home state.
So yeah, unfortunately you canstill have that single state
license in florida, but if youlive here, then it's going to be

(01:15:36):
based on living here and then,uh, kristin neekirk, it looks
like your question was answered,and that was the thing I was
confused about as well.

Speaker 1 (01:15:46):
So, and then Cheryl wants to know what can we do to
push this through?
I take it we should call everyrepresentative and senator in
Texas or go knock on their door.

Speaker 2 (01:16:13):
They're meeting there they're actually in Austin
right now the Human ServicesCommittee for the House, and
then the chair of the Businessand Commerce Committee for the
Senate, and I would say, anybodywho is on that committee,
though, because if somebodymaybe feels strongly on that
committee, then they couldprobably encourage or kind of

(01:16:34):
move it along.

Speaker 1 (01:16:41):
And again, if you go to the TCA website, they've got
links to this, they haveinformation, they have you know,
if you don't know what to say,I always get nervous when I go
to the capital and I'm knockingon doors.
I mean, tca has talking points,um, yeah, uh.
Shell wants to know is there alimit per state and once that

(01:17:02):
limit is reached you can't jointhat state?

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
Like a limit on privileges to practice.

Speaker 1 (01:17:11):
Cheryl, you can unmute if you'd like.

Speaker 3 (01:17:14):
I don't know where I got that idea, but I got the
impression that each state wouldonly offer so many seats for
other states to be able to comeon in, and once that was met,
nobody else could join theconference.

Speaker 2 (01:17:32):
I haven't heard that specifically, but I think it's a
valid question because one ofthe I guess some of the question
has been about markets, if youwant to call it that.
You know, if you think about astate that may or may not have
enough counselors if people come, if a lot of people come into a

(01:17:58):
market that already has enoughcounselors.
So, like, let's take our state,for example, we have plenty of
counties that don't havecounselors.
That's actually where we needextra people to be of service,
right, that's where we needpeople to help with those
clients.
We wouldn't necessarily needextra counselors to come into

(01:18:19):
the cities or areas that alreadyhave plenty of counselors.
So I think that's a validquestion, but I've not heard
that at all and it's nowhere inthe compact language.

Speaker 3 (01:18:35):
So part of the challenge that you just
mentioned is those counties thatreally need help.
A lot of them are in internetdeserts and recently the things
that our current politicaladministration has done has
actually hurt things that we'resupposed to move forward to help

(01:18:55):
with internet access in thoseareas.
Yeah, that's another issue.

Speaker 2 (01:19:01):
Yeah, yeah, I'm going issue.
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to followup on that question, but I've
not heard of that.

Speaker 1 (01:19:11):
What other questions do you all have?
These are great.
These are great questions.
You can type them into the chator you can use the raise your
hand function if you'd likeGreat links.
Thank you, aubrey.
Thank you Sidra.

Speaker 2 (01:19:56):
Shel, thank you for doing that.
One of the I would say when youcall and hopefully you call and
you encourage your friends tocall and kind of get this move
forward.
One of the important pieces andthat's why I said this earlier
about you know, the purpose ofthe compact really is about

(01:20:19):
client access to services.
It is that right.
But I'm sitting here looking atmany of the counselors I know
we're thinking about this from acounselor perspective, right,
and a business perspective inthat piece and I'm saying this
because this was almost ananswer that I gave that I had to

(01:20:43):
immediately stop and think waita minute.
You know being able to provideservices, but what we're talking

(01:21:09):
about, then, is if being partof the compact means that I'm
going to be able to offerservices to people outside of
Texas.
What I just said was I'm goingto offer services to people in
New York and I'm going to offerservices to people in Georgia
and I'm going to offer servicesto people in Oregon.
That's what I was about to say,and if they were quick enough

(01:21:34):
to pick up on what I was aboutto say, so then I thought that's
not how I need to answer thisquestion, even though that is,
in fact, what we're talkingabout, right?
So I encourage you, though, isyes, as a counselor, that is how
we would use this and, yes,that is how it is used.
But part of the answer, yes isalso that it is to increase

(01:22:02):
access to services for clients,and that is also something that
all of us care about and it'ssomething that we know
realistically, from whateverpopulation or setting that you
work in whether it is agency,hospital, private practice,
insurance, private pay access toservices not equal, not easy,

(01:22:28):
it's difficult, no matter whereand how.
Right.
So, anyway, I just encourage,because I did that and I had to
stop myself for a second becauseI was thinking about when I
said earlier about, it's notabout you.
I had to stop for a second andthink hold on, it's not about
you, it's not about me.

(01:22:49):
Let me not make it about me fora second, because my answer
then is going to shift outsideof Texas, and our legislators
your legislature, my legislator,is interested about in Texas.
That's what they care about isin Texas.
So how can my answer ensurethat I get them to understand

(01:23:11):
the importance of in Texas?
That's what they need tounderstand.
And, yes, you were in Texas andyes, I'm in Texas and it would
benefit me in Texas, but the wayyou phrase it is important.

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
Cheryl, you're asking about supervising an LPC from a
compact state.
Most state rules say that youhave to be licensed in that
state to supervise thoseexperience hours.
So supervising is notcounseling, so it's not really
part of the compact.

Speaker 2 (01:23:54):
Yeah, supervision is nowhere in the compact.
It's not included in here, andit was for the reason of
ensuring that anything in thecompact was just related to
independent practice, and so itwas just about an individual
having a license, seeking aprivilege to practice in another
license, a privilege topractice in another state, so it
would have nothing to do withsupervision and oversight or

(01:24:16):
anything else.
It was really to lessen all ofthe possible complications.

Speaker 1 (01:24:22):
And I'm assuming insurance is out of the scope of
a discussion like this as well,because it's really up to the
insurance.
You know they're going to maketheir own rules.
That was our next question here.

Speaker 2 (01:24:33):
Yeah, and I haven't been on some of those
conversations.
I actually have not reallylooked for them, to be quite
honest, but I know they'rehappening out there.
There are more some colleaguesand people who are, you know,
writing about, definitely aboutsome of the, you know, ethical
issues and ethicalconsiderations related to remote

(01:24:54):
practice and telehealthpractice, with a lot of them
being the whole issue related tothe different like
jurisprudence or rules relatedto this, things related to
crisis situations.
So if you're providingtelehealth practice as somebody
who you know lives in Michigan,do you know where to refer them

(01:25:17):
in Michigan?
If they live near Lake Erie,like what's going to happen when
they have a crisis and you'redoing telehealth with them, you
know how are you going to handlethat issue.
The compact doesn't speak tothat, but other than to say you
need to ensure that you'refollowing the rules of what's
expected in that state.

Speaker 1 (01:25:39):
Well, kathy, thank you for going over.
I appreciate that so much.
I didn't want to stop youbecause the information was so
good, and so we have a lot ofpeople who hung in there and
that's awesome and I appreciateyou all so much.
This is great information andthere are so many rumors going
on.
You know it's just hard to getgood information and well,

(01:26:03):
unless you attended this and nowyou have good information.
So, kathy, thank you so muchfor all of your wisdom and
information and the experienceyou bring to this discussion,
because this is truly, you know,something you have been a huge
part of.
So I really think our group isfortunate to have you tonight.
I appreciate it Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:26:22):
Yeah, like I said, happy to talk about it.
It is like I said.
I hopped on the chat reallyquick to look at it and someone
said it's infuriating.
Yes, it is so, as are some ofthese things, and hopefully, you
know we'll get some of thesethings together.
But the more we know that we'rebeing supported and that's why

(01:26:43):
I pointed out about thelicensing board and I know there
are different things that youknow we get a little upset about
.
This is not one of them.
This is not one of those things.
So they've been in full supportof this, yeah, so yeah, like I
said, I did say at the beginningI would get this to Kate.

(01:27:05):
I'm going to take out a coupleof the like fluff things that
aren't necessary, but I'll getit to Kate and she will get it
to you.
But I'm going to take a secondand go back through some of the
questions I may have missed andI'll look up some follow-up
questions too for some thingsyou guys asked.

Speaker 1 (01:27:20):
And I will put the PowerPoint and any information
or resource that Kathy gives me.
I will put it in your KateWalker training profile.
I'm not gonna email you,remember?
I broke up with email, sothat's going into your profile.
So you'll just need to go backand check and hit refresh and it
should appear there.
The attendance link is back inthe chat as well, so if you

(01:27:42):
missed that, please click it,because when I close the meeting
that link goes away.
All right, I think did youcatch everything.
Kathy, you feel good about thechat.

Speaker 2 (01:27:57):
I'm going to go through really quick if you
don't mind.
No, go for it, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:28:00):
So, but it was great to see.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Have a wonderful evening.
You know, it's funny because Iwas checking uh the discussion
that I saw on facebook today.
Let me hit record.
I'll pause.